Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:12 pm
Title: Re: Objection to the Views of Venerable Analayo
Content:
When we see this level of accord among the suttas, the canonical abhidhamma texts, and the early para-canonical treatises, then there is no reason to dismiss what they are saying. Rather, it's incumbent upon us to reassess our own opinions on the matter.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:03 pm
Title: Re: sammāsamādhi: the four jhānas
Content:
Indeed.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:36 pm
Title: Re: Objection to the Views of Venerable Analayo
Content:
I think you have it right on both counts.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:30 pm
Title: Re: Objection to the Views of Venerable Analayo
Content:
Yes, I think that the function of "stay[ing] on task with the object of contemplation" offers a good indication of sati as a mental factor, and fits well with the definitions given in the Dhammasaṅgaṇī, the Vibhaṅga, the Milindapañha, and so on.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:53 am
Title: Re: Objection to the Views of Venerable Analayo
Content:
Yes, but the question is: Is this alone an effective way to develop and maintain skillful mental qualities? Or should the satipaṭṭhānā be interpreted to indicate a more specific training regimen? That is, one picks one of the meditation subjects as object support (i.e. kāyānupassanā), then abandons carnal joy and pleasure and develops non-carnal joy and pleasure (i.e. vedanānupassanā), and recognizes the difference between limited and afflicted states of mind vs. expansive states of mind (i.e. cittānupassanā), and engages in the appropriate categories of phenomena to (a) abandon any further occurrences of hindrances, and (b) develop insight (i.e. dhammānupassanā). 

Support for this latter interpretation can be found in the Satipaṭṭhānavibhaṅga, which takes the subject of the 32 parts of the body as an example of the object support, then explicitly differentiates the distinctions between full awareness (sampajañña) and mindfulness (sati), and so on.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:06 am
Title: Re: Objection to the Views of Venerable Analayo
Content:
Without an ongoing ability to remember what we are doing we cannot function in the world, and there can be no meaningful observation of presently occurring phenomena. For example, Clive Wearing has no capacity to retain short-term memories and lives in a vacuum of the immediate present with no context or experience of continuity.

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Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:45 pm
Title: Re: Flatulence and breathing meditation
Content:
What are you confused about Dave? "Internal winds" and "internal energy flow" are descriptions of physiological functions, i.e. the respiratory system, the central nervous system, and the circulatory system. In meditation we learn how the mind and body are interrelated. As we train in attention and bodily posture we come to see how these induce changes in the the respiratory system, the central nervous system, and the circulatory system. And by learning to fine tune our mental engagement and bodily posture we can further refine these physiological functions.

For more check out this post, where I touched upon some aspects related to posture.

For more on how these systems are defined in Indo-Tibetan yoga and Tibetan medicine check out this post, this post, this post and this post by Namdrol.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:42 pm
Title: Re: Objection to the Views of Venerable Analayo
Content:
It's a question of precision really, i.e. how finely does one wish to differentiate between mental factors. It also tangentially relates to how we choose to cultivate samādhi.

On a more general note, we need to appreciate just how central the faculty of memory is for our ability to function in the world. Without memory we wouldn't be able to navigate from our house to the corner store. Without memory our closest friends and family would be strangers. Without memory we wouldn't be able to practice meditation. Each day would be like encountering the Buddhadhamma for the first time.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:53 pm
Title: Re: Objection to the Views of Venerable Analayo
Content:
Sati as remembrance is far more subtle than this.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:49 pm
Title: Re: Objection to the Views of Venerable Analayo
Content:
Yes, these are all related mental functions. Sati has become something of a catch-all term used to designate manasikāra, sampajañña, vipassanā, and even samādhi. But when we have sati being used in combination with these other mental functions, it's appropriate to differentiate them. I would also suggest that bare awareness as a mode of practice is a somewhat advanced level of practice requiring prior attention training and remembrance of what is skillful and unskillful and so on.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:25 am
Title: Re: Objection to the Views of Venerable Analayo
Content:
Just to add a couple of definitions from the Pāli texts which may help inform the discussion. The Dhammasaṅgaṇī offers the following:
The mindfulness which on that occasion is recollecting, calling back to mind; the mindfulness which is remembering, bearing in mind the opposite of superficiality and of obliviousness; mindfulness as faculty, mindfulness as power, right mindfulness.

The Milindapañha explains sati as follows:
“What, Nāgasena, is the characteristic mark of mindfulness?”

“Noting and keeping in mind. As mindfulness springs up in the mind of the recluse, he repeatedly notes the wholesome and unwholesome, blameless and blameworthy, insignificant and important, dark and light qualities and those that resemble them thinking, ‘These are the four foundations of mindfulness, these the four right efforts, these the four bases of success, these the five controlling faculties, these the five moral powers, these the seven factors of enlightenment, these are the eight factors of the noble path, this is serenity, this insight, this vision and this freedom.’ Thus does he cultivate those qualities that are desirable and shun those that should be avoided.”...

“How is keeping in mind a mark of mindfulness?”

“As mindfulness springs up in the mind, he searches out the categories of good qualities and their opposites thinking, ‘Such and such qualities are beneficial and such are harmful’. Thus does he make what is unwholesome in himself disappear and maintain what is good.”

I don't see much support for the notion of sati being "bare attention" or "bare awareness" in the suttas or commentaries. There are other terms which designate this type of mental function such as attention (manasikāra) or awareness (sampajañña).


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:57 am
Title: Re: Flatulence and breathing meditation
Content:
From a Buddhist point of view the "internal winds" are descriptions of physiological functions. Thus, there is no need for imposing metaphysical or "new age" theories. Quite simply, as the mind settles and is composed internally through attention training, this is enough to induce corresponding changes in the respiratory system, the central nervous system, and circulatory system. Therefore, generally speaking, in Buddhist meditation there is no attempt to manipulate the respiratory system to induce changes in the central nervous system or the circulatory system, beyond developing a good meditation posture, allowing the body to breathe naturally, and training in attention. And even in Buddhist vajrayāna, where there can be some degree of conscious manipulation of the respiratory system and circulatory system, the terminology and symbolism used in these yogas still correlates with physiological functions without reference to other metaphysical or new age flights of fancy.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:57 am
Title: Re: Tantric Theravada?
Content:
The list of Pāli Yogāvacara texts from the Reference Table of Pāli Literature compiled by Ven. Nyanatusita:
Vidarśanā pota, Vidarśanā bhāvanā pota, Dhyāna pota, Samasatalis karmasthānadhyānabhāvanā, Bambaragalē Pota, Vipassanā Niddesa (Pāḷi–Sinh. C. Compiled by Rambukavällē Ratanajoti on advice of Siamese theras, 18th c. Different versions? Beg: Okāsa vandāmi bhante… Eng. trans.: Manual of a Mystic. The material of this and the below entries is similar.) N 6601(6; 7; 23; 43 i &amp; ii, 50; 76), LCM 699–702, SH 236.

Parikammabhāvana (C? Pāḷi. Beg: Upāda uppajjantu…) N 6601(23iii).

Kasinabhāvanāpota, Cattālisakammaṭṭhāna (Pāḷi–Sinh. Beg: Ahaṃ yācāmi uggahanimmitaṃ…) N 6601(6 &amp; 64).

Kasinabhāvanāpota, Cattālisakammaṭṭhāna (Pāḷi–Sinh. Beg. Okāsa accayo no bhante accagamā…) N 6601(51).

Ratanaamatākaravaṇṇanā, Amatākaravaṇṇanā, Yogijanakantavimuttimagga (Pāli verse. 18th c.? Beg: Niccaṃ kilesamalavajjitadehadhāriṃ. The title Vimuttimaggauddāna is arbitrary according to Somadasa in N.) N 6601(85i), SH 236, LCM 687, L.

Samathavipassanabhāvanavākkapprakaraṇaṃ, Dvidhāvuttakammaṭṭhāna (Pāḷi prose. Beg. Vanditvā sirasā buddhaṃ … Okāsa okāsa bho sabbaññu Gotama sitthakadīpa… The 13 ch. titles are same as in Amatākaravaṇṇanā with which it is found in the same MS bundle. Maybedvi dhā refers to the verse text followed by the prose text. Cf prec. and next entries. N 6601(85ii).

Duvidhakammaṭṭhāna, (C? In same entry as Kammaṭṭhānasaṅgaha in L. Beg: Vanditvā… Okāsa sabbaññu Gotama sitthakadīpa… 4 chapters.) N 6601(23ii), SW, L.

Kammaṭṭhānasaṅgaha (C, Sāriputta, 12th c. Maybe identical with the preceding entry.) SW, Ps, HP 144.

Kammaṭṭhānadīpanī (Sāriputta. Maybe identical with the preceding entry. ) Ps, SW.

Kammaṭṭhānavibhāga (C?) L.

Kammaṭṭhānagahananiddesasannaya, L.

Kammaṭṭhāna, Kammaṭṭhānabhāvanā, Karmaṣthāna, Kamaṭahan, Kamaṭahansannaya (C. Different works?) LCM 1067, N 6600 (145), L.

Vimuttisaṅgaha (Pāḷi.) (C?) L.

Vimuttisaṅgahasannaya (C) L. 

Vimuktisaṃgrahaya ((Pāḷi verse + sanna + Sinh. prose.C, Laṅkāsenavirat pirivena adhipatti, late 14th c. Often together with the Skhandhādingē vibhāgaya and Navaarahādībuddhaguṇa vibhāgaya. Beg: Natvā buddhañca…) N 6601(55), CM xxxii, SL 53, L.

Vimuktimargaya (C?) L.

Mūlakammaṭṭhāna, Mahāmūlakammaṭṭhāna (Ic.) PCS 2.165, PSA 108, VP 4/120.

Yokappako Ācāriya (La?) PSA 121.


Abbreviations:

B: Burma/Myanmar
CM: Chiang Mai/Lān2 Nā
I: India
Ic: Indochina. (Burma, Cambodia, Laos, Siam, Vietnam, i.e., the wider sense given in the Oxford Dictionary.)
Kh: Khmer/Cambodia
La: Laos
S: Siam/Thailand
SI: South-India, Tamil Nadu
C: Ceylon/Sri Lanka



CM: Catalogue of Ceylonese Manuscripts; C.E. Godakumbara, the Royal Library, Copenhagen, 1980. 
HP: Handbook of Pāli Literature. Somapala Jayawardhana; Colombo, 1994. 
L: Lankāvē Puskoḷa Pot Nāmāvaliya I and II. K.D. Somadasa; Colombo, 1959 and 1964.
LCM: Catalogue of Palm Leaf Manuscripts in the Library of the Colombo Museum; W.A. de Silva; Colombo 1938. 
N: Catalogue of the Hugh Nevill Collection of Sinhalese Manuscripts in the British Library, 7 vols.; K.D. Somadasa, London, 1987 - 95.
PCS: Pāli Literature Transmitted in Central Siam. Peter Skilling &amp; Santi Pakdeekham; Bangkok 2002. (§) 
Ps: Pitakat samuin (Burmese History of the Tipiṭaka); Mahasirijeyasū, 19th c. 
PSA: Pāli Literature of South-east Asia; Ven. Dr. Hammalawa Saddhātissa, Singapore, 1992, repr. 2004.
SH: Singhalesische Handschriften Teil I; Heinz Bechert and Maria Bidoli, Wiesbaden, 1969. Singhalesische Handschriften Teil II; Heinz Bechert, Stuttgart, 1997.
SL: Sinhalese Literature; C.E. Godakumbara, Colombo, 1955. 
SW: “Sāriputta and his works”; Primoz Pecenko, JPTS XXIII (1997), pp. 159–179.
VP:The Pāli Manuscript Collection kept in the Vat Phra Jetuphon Vimol Mangklaram (Vat Po), Jacqueline Filliozat, Bangkok, 2002–2003. In ED 108. (MS No.)


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:50 pm
Title: Re: Difference between Buddha and Arahant
Content:
All Buddhist schools maintain that it is different. IMO it's worthwhile acknowledging this historical point of view.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:08 pm
Title: Re: Difference between Buddha and Arahant
Content:
Early enough to be included in the canonical Theravāda Tipiṭaka. I don't see any good reason to dismiss the idea that the Buddha was the most exceptional person to ever live in this world system. It can be inferred from various suttas, which include passages on the 32 marks of a great man and so on. These teachings on the Buddha's excellence have been mainstream Buddhist teachings since antiquity.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:40 pm
Title: Re: Difference between Buddha and Arahant
Content:
The source is the Paṭisambhidāmagga Ñāṇakathā. I'm not aware of any earlier Theravāda source that explicitly addresses this issue.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:34 pm
Title: Re: Tantric Theravada?
Content:
Thanks again Bhante.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:30 pm
Title: Re: Mahayana split
Content:
I don't know who your Mahāyāna teachers are, but the teachers I've had would never accept nor teach a "sloppy anything goes approach." Quite the opposite.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:03 pm
Title: Re: Mahayana split
Content:
The problem is when you reify some sort of hypothetical monolithic "Mahāyāna" and then set out to attack this illusion.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:30 pm
Title: Re: Metteya Bodhisatta Tusita Second-to-Last Birth?
Content:
Indeed, the aspiration to meet the future buddha has been an inspiration for many practitioners since ancient times. For example:
By the power of these meritorious deeds, without falling into the four hells, may I seek the Bodhisatta Metteyya in the Tāvatiṃsa heaven and enjoying divine happiness, and going from there to Ketumatī City, eradicating the defilements, may I receive the peace of liberation from the Buddha Metteyya.

Here's a number of aspirations to meet the future buddha from Theravāda sources: Aspirations to Meet Buddha Ariya Metteyya.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:18 pm
Title: Re: Difference between Buddha and Arahant
Content:
Yes, it is a good answer Laurence. 

Just to add: A buddha has knowledge and abilities not shared by arahant disciples. The Paṭisambhidāmagga lists the following:
knowledge of the penetration of other beings' faculties
knowledge of other beings' biases and underlying tendancies
knowledge of the twin miracle*
knowledge of the attainment of great compassion
omniscience &amp; unobstructed knowledge

*i.e. the ability to produce fire and water from various parts of the body, as well as walk amid an aura of colors while a created image of his body sits or lies down, etc.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:38 pm
Title: Re: Late origin?
Content:
Right view will eliminate dogmatism (sooner or later). But practice without understanding is generally not very helpful.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:30 pm
Title: Re: Happy Birthday acinteyyo!
Content:
Happy birthday!!!


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:58 am
Title: Re: Difficult Points In Buddhism
Content:
Actually, all I see here is your lack of understanding of Buddhist Mādhyamaka. I'd like to be more charitable, but you've demonstrated no meaningful attempt to understand what you are criticizing.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:01 am
Title: Re: Mahayana split
Content:
It's been quite a while since I read the article, but if I remember correctly the author seems to imply that since there were multiple streams of transmission of the early discourses evolving into different redactions in different Indic languages, that therefore, the earliest (proto-)Mahāyāna sūtras should be considered just as ancient as the Gāndhārī and other Indic language discourses that are similar in style and content to the Pāli discourses. But this is too much of a leap. All of the earliest discourses (Pāli, Gāndhārī, etc.) differ considerably in both style and content from the earliest (proto-)Mahāyāna sūtras. For these and other reasons, the latter simply can't be placed in the mouth of the historical samaṇa Gotama.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:58 am
Title: Re: Tantric Theravada?
Content:
A couple of more papers on this subject for anyone interested:

Tantric Theravāda: A bibliographic essay on the writings of François Bizot and other literature on the Yogāvacara Tradition by Kate Crosby.

Aspects of Esoteric Southern Buddhism by Lance Cousins.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:20 pm
Title: Re: Satipatthana: The direct path to realization
Content:
A couple of definitions from the Pāli texts may help inform the discussion. The Dhammasaṅgaṇī offers the following:
The mindfulness which on that occasion is recollecting, calling back to mind; the mindfulness which is remembering, bearing in mind the opposite of superficiality and of obliviousness; mindfulness as faculty, mindfulness as power, right mindfulness.

The Milindapañha explains sati as follows:
“What, Nāgasena, is the characteristic mark of mindfulness?”

“Noting and keeping in mind. As mindfulness springs up in the mind of the recluse, he repeatedly notes the wholesome and unwholesome, blameless and blameworthy, insignificant and important, dark and light qualities and those that resemble them thinking, ‘These are the four foundations of mindfulness, these the four right efforts, these the four bases of success, these the five controlling faculties, these the five moral powers, these the seven factors of enlightenment, these are the eight factors of the noble path, this is serenity, this insight, this vision and this freedom.’ Thus does he cultivate those qualities that are desirable and shun those that should be avoided.”...

“How is keeping in mind a mark of mindfulness?”

“As mindfulness springs up in the mind, he searches out the categories of good qualities and their opposites thinking, ‘Such and such qualities are beneficial and such are harmful’. Thus does he make what is unwholesome in himself disappear and maintain what is good.”


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:05 am
Title: Re: Mahayana split
Content:
Just to add: From what we actually know of the Indian Mahāyāna based on the archaeological and epigraphical evidence of donative inscriptions discovered at ancient Indian cave temples and so on, the Mahāyāna was largely connected to the lineages of Indian monastic Buddhism. Gregory Schopen states in Bones, Stones, and Buddhist Monks, p. 32:
[T]he Mahāyāna figures [pertaining to the quantitative numbers of donative inscriptions] are particularly significant. We know on the basis of these figures that, from its first appearance in inscriptions, the Mahāyāna was a monk-dominated movement, and that it continued to be so until the thirteenth century, the date of our last known Mahāyāna inscription.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:41 am
Title: Re: Tantric Theravada?
Content:
Good stuff Ajahn Gavesako.  

South Asian and S.E. Asian Buddhism contains a number of diverse practices. 

Here's a copy of the (now quite dated) English translation of a Pāli and Sinhalese Yogāvacara Meditation Manual.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:33 am
Title: Re: Mahayana split
Content:
Yes. The bhikṣuṇīs who I know within the Tibetan tradition have all ordained in the Dharmagupta lineage. I'm not up to date on the vinaya technicalities of the modern Theravāda bhikkhunis.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:08 am
Title: Re: Mahayana split
Content:
The OP of this thread is based on a false premise. The Mahāyāna isn't an ordination lineage and has never "split" from any ordination lineage. There are three existing ordination lineages: Mūlasarvāstivāda, Dharmaguptaka, and Theravāda. All three are descended from the ancient Sthaviravāda. And of the three, the Mūlasarvāstivāda and Dharmaguptaka lineages are comprised of monks, nuns, laymen, and laywomen who are also mahāyānikas.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:30 pm
Title: Re: Mahayana split
Content:
While the storyline here is mythical, I'd suggest that the idea of someone in the distant future (or distant past) somewhere in the universe (re-)discovering the 4NT and noble path is within the realm of possibility.

Also FTR, all of this stuff was standard mainstream Indian Buddhism and predates any "Mahāyāna." (I'm sure you're aware of this Kare, I only add it for general context.)


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:05 pm
Title: Re: Difficult Points In Buddhism
Content:
Ah, thanks Ben. 

I already did a bit of a search. The following excerpt from this Interview with Alex Bunardzic leads me to think that the author doesn't really know much about the subject matter he is trying to criticize (emphasis added).
My book is about certain difficult points in Buddhism. There appears to be a fairly large body of confusion about what is Buddhism, what is the fundamental Buddhist teaching and practice, and how can Buddhism fit into our daily lives. Upon closer inspection of the contemporary Buddhist literature available on the market today, it turns out that many of the books dealing with the topic are actually not discussing Buddhism at all. They’re mostly Brahmanism, Taoism, or other Absolutist religions disguised as Buddhism.

I have a library of 100s of books and have had access to a Buddhist monastic library containing almost every significant book and translation published in English on the subject of Buddhism over the past 50 years, and I have seen very little evidence of books being published where "Brahmanism, Taoism, or other Absolutist religions [are being] disguised as Buddhism."


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:45 am
Title: Re: Difficult Points In Buddhism
Content:
Where's the link?


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:43 am
Title: Re: Sāriputta Thera and his analytical knowledge (paṭisambhidā)
Content:
Yeah, I'd prefer to avoid making any over-generalizations. I've attended some Chan and Zen retreats over the years, and have had mostly good experiences. The quality of the dharma talks can vary but the sitting practice itself is well maintained and practiced. I've also met Chan monks who've practiced the dhutanga austerities of one meal per day and sleeping while sitting upright for the past 30 or 40 years. Very dedicated Buddhist yogis who aren't easily taken in by irrational flights of fancy. So there is real Zen and then there is "Zen-lite." The latter is more popular in many Western circles than the former.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:15 pm
Title: Re: Sāriputta Thera and his analytical knowledge (paṭisambhidā)
Content:
"Analysis of qualities" is Ven. Ṭhānissaro's translation of dhammavicaya -- dhamma investigation -- which as you know, is the second of the seven factors of awakening. In the Abhidhamma the seven factors of awakening are all considered to be present at the time of attaining the noble path -- hence "awakening." This demonstrates the integrated processes involved in awakening. And of the seven factors, dhamma-investigation is singled out as synonymous with both the faculty of discernment, and vipassanā. And in the Mahāniddesa, dhamma-investigation is said to be synonymous with bodhi. Also, from the Milindapañha:
“By how many factors does one awaken to the truth?”

“By one, dhamma-investigation, for nothing can be understood without that.”

These sources are all highlighting the point that awakening is a cognitive act of discernment (paññā).


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:06 am
Title: Re: Sāriputta Thera and his analytical knowledge (paṭisambhidā)
Content:
I think that if you take a close look at the first 1000+ years of Indian Buddhism (all schools and yānas) you'll be hard pressed to find commentarial literature which advocates any kind of non-logical, anti-rational thought processes. The Indian Buddhists were pretty rigorous in their use of reasoning, as well as logic and epistemology as they understood these disciplines. IMO this should be our standard as well, regardless of which tradition we follow and practice.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:50 am
Title: Re: Saṅkhāradukkhatā - Suffering due to Volitional Formations
Content:
Well said Bhante.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:33 am
Title: Re: Sāriputta Thera and his analytical knowledge (paṭisambhidā)
Content:
The Pāli term is paṭisambhidā, which like most things, has been analyzed in considerable detail by the Theravāda commentators! For example, the first chapter of Ven. Kusalaguṇa's dissertation Catupaṭisambhidā In Theravāda Buddhism looks at the term paṭisambhidā in two ways:
‘Paṭisambhidā’ is primarily a combination of four elements, namely ‘paṭi’, ‘saṃ’, ‘√bhid’ and ‘ā’. ‘Paṭi’ is a prefix meaning ‘separately, individually’ (visuṃ); ‘saṃ’ is also a prefix meaning ‘completely, thoroughly, well’ (sammā). The root ‘√bhid’ means ‘to break, to categorize, or to divide’, and ‘ā’ is a feminine noun-forming suffix. Thus, ‘paṭisambhidā’ literally means ‘thoroughly separate category’....

The term ‘paṭisambhidā’ can be formed by two ways—one is, as described above, from the prefixes ‘pati’ and ‘saṃ’, the root √bhid and the noun-forming suffix ‘ā’, the other is from the primary noun ‘paṭisambhidā’ and the secondary noun-forming suffix ‘a’. In other words, ‘paṭisambhidā’ is both a primary noun (kita-nāma) and a secondary noun (taddhita-nāma)....

The other issue involved is the meaning of the secondary noun ‘paṭi­sambhidā’. According to the Pāḷi grammatical rule related to the formation of a secondary noun, when the secondary noun-forming suffix ‘a’ is added to a primary noun, the formed word signifies a branch of ‘study, knowledge of, knowing’. Under the present circumstance, since the primary noun ‘paṭi­sambhidā’ means ‘category or division’ (pabhedā), the secondary noun should be understood as ‘knowledge capable of categorizing, dividing, breaking or even analyzing phenomena separately and thoroughly’.

Thus, paṭi­sambhidā can be translated as "analytical knowledge," "analytical insight," "discriminating knowledge," or "discrimination." Ven. Ñāṇamoli translated the title of the Paṭisambhidāmagga as "The Path of Discrimination."


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:04 pm
Title: Re: Saṅkhāradukkhatā - Suffering due to Volitional Formations
Content:
They are impermanent and fabricated. They become otherwise and fall apart.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:10 pm
Title: Re: Saṅkhāradukkhatā - Suffering due to Volitional Formations
Content:
There is no need to read this sutta as indicating some sort of absolute reality or any other type of absolute "otherness." The terms refer to the reverse sequence of conditioned arising (paṭiccasamuppāda): not-born (ajāta) = cessation of birth (jātinirodha), not-become (abhūta) = cessation of becoming (bhavanirodha), not-made (akata) = cessation of craving and cessation of clinging (taṇhānirodha &amp; upādānanirodha), not-fabricated (asaṅkhata) = cessation of volitional fabrications (saṅkhāranirodha), which refers to the the calming of all specific fabrication and volitional intention mentioned in MN 140 Dhātuvibhaṅga Sutta:
One does not form any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence. Not forming any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence, he does not cling to anything in this world. Not clinging, he is not excited. Unexcited, he personally attains complete nibbāna. He discerns that, ‘Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, done is what had to be done, there is nothing further here.’

Also, Visuddhimagga, Chapter 16:
[Q] Is the absence of present [aggregates] as well nibbāna?

[A] That is not so. Because their absence is an impossibility, since if they are absent their non-presence follows. [Besides, if nibbāna were absence of present aggregates too,] that would entail the fault of excluding the arising of the nibbāna element with result of past clinging left, at the path moment, which has present aggregates as its support.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:58 pm
Title: Re: Saṅkhāradukkhatā - Suffering due to Volitional Formations
Content:
Indeed. I'm now using "not-fabricated" for asaṅkhata and "death-free" for amata. The latter is borrowed from Norman.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:27 pm
Title: Re: Saṅkhāradukkhatā - Suffering due to Volitional Formations
Content:
The noble paths and fruitions cannot be attained nor cognized without perception (saññā). Also, translating asaṅkhata as "the Unconditioned" can be very misleading. There is no Unconditioned Ground in the Pāli dhamma. SN 43.1:
And what, monks, is the not-fabricated (asaṅkhata)? The elimination of passion, the elimination of aggression, the elimination of delusion: this is called the not-fabricated.

And Vibhaṅga 184:
What, there, is the not-fabricated component (asaṅkhatā dhātu)? The elimination of passion, the elimination of aggression, the elimination of delusion: this is called the not-fabricated component.

The Pāli dhamma isn't a theistic religion or an essentialist philosophy. Therefore, there is no reason to capitalize terms such as nibbāna or asaṅkhata or the deathless (amata) or the dhamma (in the context of the teaching itself). The only terms which should be capitalized in English translation are proper nouns (personal names, place names, text names, sutta names) according to the conventions of the English language.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:13 am
Title: Re: Sāriputta Thera and his analytical knowledge (paṭisambhidā)
Content:
Yes, good post. I was just looking at paṭisambhidā in the context of vitakka &amp; vicāra the other day. The Peṭakopadesa analysis of these terms in the context of the jhāna formula includes the following:
Vitakka is like a text-reciter who does his recitation silently. Vicāra is like him simply contemplating it (anupassati). Vitakka is like non-comprehension (apariññā). Vicāra is like full comprehension (pariññā). Vitakka is the analytical understanding of language (niruttipaṭisambhidā) and the analytical understanding of knowledge (paṭibhānapaṭisambhidā). Vicāra is the analytical understanding of dhamma (dhammapaṭisambhidā) and the analytical understanding of meaning (atthapaṭisambhidā). Vitakka is the mind's skill in pleasantness. Vicāra is the mind's skill in endeavor. Vitakka is about this being skillful, this unskillful, about this to be developed, this to be abandoned, this to be verified. Vicāra is like the abandoning, the development, the verification.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:59 am
Title: Re: Saṅkhāradukkhatā - Suffering due to Volitional Formations
Content:
An important Pāli text for sutta commentary and interpretation. It's been translated by Ven. Ñaṇamoli as The Guide.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:09 am
Title: Re: Happy Birthday Monkey Mind!
Content:
Happy birthday!!!


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:34 pm
Title: Re: Saṅkhāradukkhatā - Suffering due to Volitional Formations
Content:
In the context of the first noble truth, dukkha encompasses the following:

The unsatisfactoriness of pain (dukkhadukkhatā):
birth (jāti)
aging (jarā)
illness (byādhi)
death (maraṇa)
sorrow (soka)
lamentation (parideva)
pain (dukkha)
unhappiness (domanassa)
despair (upāyāsā)
The unsatisfactoriness of change (vipariṇāmadukkhatā):
association with what is unpleasant (appiyehi sampayogo)
separation from what is pleasant (piyehi vippayogo)
not getting what is wanted (yampiccha na labhati)
The unsatisfactoriness of fabrications (saṅkhāradukkhatā):
the five clinging-aggregates (pañcupādānakkhandhā)

Also the Nettippakaraṇa:
Herein, the world is, at one time or another, somewhat free from to the unsatisfactoriness of pain as well as the unsatisfactoriness of change. Why is that? Because there are those in the world who have little sickness and are long-lived. But only the nibbāna component with no fuel remaining (anupādisesa nibbānadhātu) liberates from the unsatisfactoriness of fabrications.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:02 pm
Title: Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street
Content:
The dhammavinaya and ordained sangha can co-exist with egalitarian and collectivist principles and co-ops just as easily as they can with capitalist principles -- maybe even moreso. From a Buddhist perspective:


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:07 pm
Title: Re: "Bodhisattvas protecting galaxies and worlds"
Content:
I'm wondering what it has to do with Buddhism???


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:37 pm
Title: Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street
Content:
You don't have to believe it if you don't want to Chownah. It's not a Nicene Creed. But for what it's worth, a significant degree of social and cultural development and accommodation are necessary for the dhamma to flourish. Therefore, appropriate conditions are important. AN 8.29 Akkhaṇa Sutta informs us that if we are born into a region where there is no possible contact with the monastic sangha or lay disciples then that would be an unsuitable situation for practicing the dhammavinaya:
Again, bhikkhus, the Thus Gone One, worthy, rightfully enlightened endowed with knowledge and conduct, well gone, knower of the worlds, the incomparable tamer of those to be tamed, the Teacher of gods and men, enlightened and blessed is born in the world. The Teaching leading to quietness and extinction, taught by the Well Gone One, is preached. This person is born to someone in the bordering states among not learned Barbarians, where bhikkhus, bhikkhunis, lay disciples male or female are not seen. Bhikkhus, this is the fifth unsuitable instance to lead the holy life.

Ordination would be impossible in such a situation and one would be without good friends and without access to dhamma texts and teachings.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:58 am
Title: Re: The Buddha and Occupy Wall Street
Content:
Sharon Salzberg and Jack Kornfield are included in the undersigned...


An Open Letter From Buddhist And Yoga Teachers In Support Of The Occupy Movement by Ethan Nichtern and Michael Stone.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:00 am
Title: Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice
Content:
Pretty standard Vism. definitions of the two terms.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:45 am
Title: Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice
Content:
And that is what I meant by "semantic relativity." The same terms can mean different things to different people. IMO the interview that Tilt supplied briefly addresses the historical situation accompanying the semantic development of these terms.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:38 am
Title: Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice
Content:
Indeed. There are different ways of developing samatha. Buddhists have been using dhāraṇī and mantra repetition in combination with sūtra, sādhanā, &amp; pūjā recitation for more than 1500 years to attain samādhi.

(I once saw a tourist's video of a Tibetan shaman putting himself and a group of devotees into an ecstatic trance by reciting a long mantra over and over. Not exactly Buddhadhamma!, but the spoken word is a powerful medium, even moreso when intoned with melody.)


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:13 am
Title: Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice
Content:
What do you think Ben: Would that silent mind fulfill the criteria for a "second jhāna"?


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:24 am
Title: Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice
Content:
By keeping the mind on topic with the aids of appropriate effort (vāyāma) and mindfulness (sati) and plenty of consistent, repeated practice (bhāvanā). It's also worth noting that some meditation subjects (e.g. Buddhānussati, brahmavihārā, asubhasaññā, etc.) are more conducive to sustained mental repetition of phrases than others (ānāpānassati, paṭhavī kasiṇa, etc.).


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:30 am
Title: Re: Vitakka and Vicara in Jhana practice
Content:
Sarvāstivāda, Sautrāntika, and Yogācāra ābhidharmikas consistently define vitakka &amp; vicāra as two types of "mental discourse" (manojalpa, lit: "mind-talk"). For example, Vasubandhu defines vitakka as "mental discourse which investigates" (paryeṣako manojalpa) and vicāra as "mental discourse which reflects" (pratyavekṣako manojalpa). Vitakka is considered to be coarse (cittsyaudārikatā) and vicāra comparatively more subtle (cittsyasūkṣmatā). Compare with the Theravāda Peṭakopadesa, which gives a detailed word analysis of these terms in the context of the jhāna formula:
Vitakka is like a text-reciter who does his recitation silently. Vicāra is like him simply contemplating it (anupassati). Vitakka is like non-comprehension (apariññā). Vicāra is like full comprehension (pariññā). Vitakka is the analytical understanding of language (niruttipaṭisambhidā) and the analytical understanding of knowledge (paṭibhānapaṭisambhidā). Vicāra is the analytical understanding of dhamma (dhammapaṭisambhidā) and the analytical understanding of meaning (atthapaṭisambhidā). Vitakka is the mind's skill in pleasantness. Vicāra is the mind's skill in endeavor. Vitakka is about this being skillful, this unskillful, about this to be developed, this to be abandoned, this to be verified. Vicāra is like the abandoning, the development, the verification.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:38 pm
Title: Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas
Content:
Cf. Ven. Bodhi:
The commentarial method of explanation stipulates that the meditator emerges from the jhāna attainment and practices insight contemplation with a mind made sharp and supple by the jhāna. However, the suttas themselves say nothing about emerging from the jhāna. If one reads the suttas alone, without the commentaries, it seems as if the meditator examines the factors within the jhāna itself.

And Ven. Gunaratana:
The belief that one must come out of jhāna to gain supernormal knowledge (abhiññās) or to destroy defilements and attain enlightenment is based on an assumption that the concentrated mind becomes one with the object of meditation and is absorbed into that object. For this reason some people translate jhāna or samādhi as absorption concentration. If the mind is absorbed into the object then the mind is paralyzed and incapable of doing anything.

This may be true when the jhāna is gained without mindfulness. This is what happened to the teachers of the Bodhisatta Gotama. They were stuck in jhāna but they thought that they had attained enlightenment. This cannot happen when you practice jhāna with mindfulness. When we attain right jhāna, our mindfulness is pure, our equanimity is strong, our concentration is strong and our attention is sharp. Right concentration consolidates all the mental factors that the Buddha has listed in the Anupada Sutta. Concentration is one of the factors present in right jhāna. You are fully aware, without words or concepts, of the subtlest impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and selflessness that takes place in this state of samādhi. These are your direct experience, not philosophical or logical thoughts.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:51 pm
Title: Re: "Common Sense" interpretation of the suttas
Content:
The suttas use common sense conventions from soup to nuts. But these conventions include phrases, figures of speech, and extended metaphors which may have been fairly easy to understand or learn in the social and cultural context of the Buddha's time and place, but are often quite opaque to the novice reader of today. And not only that, the path and the goal which they describe are quite uncommon in any time or place.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:07 pm
Title: Re: dhammas
Content:
It's only one point within a larger context which he fails to fully appreciate. For a mādhyamika all dharmas are ultimately unestablished (apratiṣṭha). I doubt that Buddhaghosa would agree with that. But we can leave it there. I understand that Harvey's quote isn't the main subject of this thread.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:45 pm
Title: Re: dhammas
Content:
Come on, there's a whole forum for the Classical Theravāda, where the term is well defined in the Guidelines of the forum as referring to the "Abhidhamma and the classical Mahāvihāra understanding of the Dhamma." When I use the term "classical Theravāda" I'm specifically referring to the post-canonical commentarial literature.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:32 pm
Title: Re: No rebirth
Content:
Without these aspects it isn't the Buddha's dhammavinaya anymore. At best it's some sort of cognitive therapy rooted in a view of scientific materialism. And some of the most salient features of the dhammavinaya, such as the goal to be realized, and the ten fetters to be eliminated, become rather pointless in such a context.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:18 pm
Title: Re: dhammas
Content:
Yes, of course. The Pāli suttas, as well as the Pāli Paṭisambhidāmagga and the Pāli Abhidhammapiṭaka are in complete accord with Mādhyamaka (with the possible exception of a few points in the Kathāvatthu). The difference concerns the classical Theravāda interpretation of these texts.

Numerous Indian and Tibetan mādhyamikas accept that an arahant full realizes emptiness and eliminates superimposition, and that it's absurd to claim that they do not.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:23 pm
Title: Re: Is Bodhi's "Buddha's Words" A Good Overview?
Content:
I agree with Mike and Santa. It's a good, well translated anthology.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:58 pm
Title: Re: dhammas
Content:
The easiest way to highlight the difference between classical Theravāda and Mādhyamaka is in terms of the two truths. As you know, the classical Theravāda considers designations such as person, house, cart, and computer to be examples of conventional truth. And for them, mind (citta), mental factors (cetasikā), form (rūpa), and nibbāna are elevated to the level of ultimate truth. But the Mādhyamaka, on the other hand, considers all of these to be conventional as well. The only ultimate truth for them is the so-called non-nominal ultimate -- "freedom from extremes."


*That's "nominal" not "noumenal"!


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:49 pm
Title: Re: Flatulence and breathing meditation
Content:
This idea of "if it ain't explicitly stated in a Pāli sutta I ain't buying it" is naïve at best, and more often than not merely cognitive bullshit. Why? Because (1) the suttas weren't composed by the Buddha, and (2) the suttas were never intended to cover every aspect of practice in minute detail. 

I understand the desire and the well-founded need for a certain degree of skepticism in this day and age, but you're a sharp fellow Dave, far too intelligent to be subjecting yourself to such self-limiting barriers. Skepticism can either be a helpful tool or a retarding impediment.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:11 pm
Title: Re: Speed & amount of momentary cittas
Content:
Yes.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:11 pm
Title: Re: Flatulence and breathing meditation
Content:
My suggestion: Keep practicing. Also keep in mind that we're roaming in the domain of ancient metaphor here.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:49 pm
Title: Re: Flatulence and breathing meditation
Content:
Nope. Not at all really.

I forgot to mention that the "downward moving winds" and the "winds of the bowels" are related to the occurrence of flatulence.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:24 pm
Title: Re: Flatulence and breathing meditation
Content:
MN 62 Mahārāhulovāda Sutta gives the standardized list of internal energies which have been elaborated upon in all Indian Buddhist and non-Buddhist yoga systems (and other systems such as those known to the Chinese, etc.):
What is the internal air element? Whatever internally, within oneself, that is air, airy, and clung-to, that is, upward moving winds, downward moving winds, winds in the stomach, winds in the bowels, winds that course through the limbs, in-breath and out-breath, or whatever else internally, within oneself, that is air, airy, and clung-to: this is called the internal air element.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:19 pm
Title: Re: Flatulence and breathing meditation
Content:
In defense of the Paṭisambhidāmagga, the instruction it offers is merely a starting point for the profound practice of ānāpānassati. It's one way of beginning attention training, which can and should be developed further according to the sutta descriptions of whole body jhāna energy flow.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:11 am
Title: Re: dhammas
Content:
For the Mādhyamaka the classical Theravāda version of the dhamma theory &amp; the two truth theory cannot withstand analysis. Therefore, even if one accepts that an adherent of the classical Theravāda would consider the Mahāyāna critique of sabhāva, etc., to be largely irrelevant as Harvey suggests, for a mādhyamika this critique of the classical Theravāda version of the dhamma theory &amp; the two truth theory would indeed be relevant.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:04 am
Title: Re: dhammas
Content:
I was trying to say that this particular issue doesn't pertain to Theravāda per se. For mādhyamikas ultimate truth (paramattha sacca) cannot be identical to conditioned dhammas. There are a number of ways to articulate the two truths according to Mādhyamaka, but in short, the two truths are neither the same nor different.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:44 am
Title: Re: dhammas
Content:
From a perspective which is probably only relevant to mādhyamikas this isn't accurate.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:40 am
Title: Re: dhammas
Content:
Indeed. What we are talking about here is phenomenological description. And description is always going to be an approximation of (actual) non-conceptual experience. And so the issue is: What is the most accurate phenomenological description? There's no doubt that what we experience is momentary. In sutta terms: moving (calañceva), wavering (byathañca), impermanent (aniccaṃ), changing (vipariṇāmi), becoming otherwise (aññathābhāvi). When the scholar-monks began to articulate this in terms of theories of momentariness they came up with a few different descriptions of momentariness, e.g two different versions in Pāli Theravāda, plus those of their Sautrāntika and Yogācāra contemporaries.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:05 am
Title: Re: dhammas
Content:
Good eye Sylvester. To be sure, at least some of the Theravāda commentators made a conscious effort to avoid reification. In fact, Ācariya Ānanda's version of momentariness eliminated the sub-moment of duration.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:30 am
Title: Re: anyone use the chair?
Content:
This can be remedied for most people. As already mentioned, it's important to elevate your hips above your knees (when sitting in the cross-legged posture). When that is done, then it's a matter of adjusting the pelvis. The pelvis rotates forward and backward like a large flat bowl (with the bottom of the bowl analogous to the bottom of the pelvis bones). When the pelvis is in the correct position the spine will align like a slightly curved stack of coins (in a slight "S" curve with your body facing &lt;-- way). Then the shoulders will also be aligned, and when it's just right, your skeleton will be well aligned, and your muscle mass will be full supported by your skeleton. Basically, all of your muscles will be able to relax like meat hanging on a rack. When the pelvis and spine and shoulders are correctly aligned then your body can deeply relax, which in turn, allows your mind to settle inwardly. (It's easier to work with someone in person to make these adjustments, but hopefully you can make the appropriate adjustments. It makes a world of difference.)

For most people who sit cross-legged on the floor the Japanese zafu &amp; zabuton with a small support cushion for adjusting the zafu angle is by far the best technology ever invented. Preferably with a zafu stuffed with buckwheat hulls or something similar.





Note the very slight "ƨ" curve of her lower spine.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:47 pm
Title: Re: Jibber Jabber
Content:
Indeed one can.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:01 pm
Title: Re: dhammas
Content:
Well... there's the whole theory of radical momentariness that informs those quotes, which is theoretical stuff sometimes mistaken as "the given" of insight meditation, but I'm not interested in discussing that here &amp; now.

*Singing* "Gimme three steps, gimme three steps mister...."


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:52 pm
Title: Re: anyone use the chair?
Content:
I sit on the floor, but with your knee problems by all means sit on a chair. You'll be able to develop a stable posture and keep your back straight without having to deal with knee problems. Consistency and patience are important. We practice with our mind and our whole body, not just with our knees.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:19 am
Title: Re: dhammas
Content:
There will still be people reading, studying, translating, teaching, discussing, and debating the Visuddhimagga long after we're all dead, gone, and most likely forgotten (barring some sort of global or cosmic catastrophic event, that is).


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:10 am
Title: Re: Is there sutta basis for the modern bifurcation of jhanas?
Content:
I think there's enough diversity of practice instruction offered in the suttas and also enough lack of specifics to account for this as well as other interpretations.

Here's Ven. Anālayo's informative entry on samatha &amp; vipassanā from the Encyclopaedia of Buddhism: Samatha &amp; Vipassanā.

The bottom line is that as mental qualities, both samatha &amp; vipassanā are indispensable.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:47 am
Title: Re: Absorption of a thoroughbred man
Content:
I don't really know what you mean by uncertainty and discrepancy? Do you find the commentarial analysis unsatisfactory?


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:51 am
Title: Re: Absorption of a thoroughbred man
Content:
As you know, there are many suttas which list the four jhānas and then the four formless attainments and sometimes also the cessation of recognition and feeling. IMO this format is a standardized template. It allows for all possible variations in practice. 

So with MN 121 for example, it first lists (i) the pre-jhāna practice of the recognition of wilderness; (ii) the jhāna practice of the recognition of earth, which can cover the development of all four jhānas; (iii) the practice of the four formless attainments which can be developed from the fourth jhāna; and (iv) the signless concentration, which according to the sources already quoted, refers to vipasssanā. Here vipassanā can either be engaged from within any of the jhānas or first three formless attainments, or after emerging from any of the jhānas or formless attainments (depending on how you interpret the relationship between jhāna and vipassanā).

And so in practice, one doesn't have to follow the standardized template in a rigid linear order. The vipassanā practice resulting in the signless concentration can be engaged from the basis of any of the jhānas or first three formless attainments (again, depending upon the depth of your jhāna absorption), or after emerging from the fourth formless attainment. 

In this way the standardized formulas of the suttas can be expanded horizontally to account for the dynamics of real life practice.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:04 am
Title: Re: Absorption of a thoroughbred man
Content:
Well, the thing is, there are a few instances of terminology where there isn't enough content in the suttas themselves to ascertain what the term or phrase is really referring to. As I mentioned on that other thread, this is the case for the mentions of the signless samādhi (animittā samādhi). For example, MN 121 is a one-off sutta. It contains passages and phrasing which are unique to this sutta alone. So either: (i) we set this apparently important sutta* aside because we consider its use of the term animitta cetosamādhi in this context to be too obscure to understand in any usable sense; (ii) we interpret it willy-nilly to fit our fancy (the "wild west" scenario); or (iii) we look to to other later canonical sources and the early commentaries to see what they have to say on the issue, and then determine as best we can if what they have to offer is reasonable in the context of what we do know from all other sutta sources on related or similar issues. 

We know from MN 43 Mahāvedalla Sutta that the signless liberation of mind (animittā cetovimutti) is defined as follows:
What is the signless liberation of mind? There is the case where a monk, through not attending to all signs, enters and remains in the signless concentration of mind. Friend, this is said to be the signless liberation of mind.

This is all the info we get, and of course, this definition raises the obvious questions: What does it mean to "not attend to all signs"? How do I do this? 

It's a free world and we are all free to choose whichever of the above options we consider viable in order to help us answer these questions. Personally, I consider the Paṭisambhidāmagga to be both reasonable and usable in this instance. For example, it offers the following:
When he gives attention as impermanent his mind emerges from the sign; his mind enters into the signless.... Gnosis of contemplation of the signlessness of form... feeling... recognition... fabrications... consciousness... etc., is signless deliverance because it liberates from all signs.

And so here we learn that the signless deliverance, which is similar in wording to the "signless liberation of mind" defined in MN 43, is a samādhi resulting from the contemplation of impermanence, i.e. abandoning all signs of permanence as the commentary to MN 121 says. Okay, to me this seems reasonable and usable and gives meaning to a passage that would otherwise remain forever obscure. 


*It was definitely considered an important sutta for the Sarvāstivāda &amp; Mūlasarvāstivāda because it was included in their Mahāsūtras.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:56 pm
Title: Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas
Content:
No need to apologize to me Mike. I think you're a pretty straight up guy. But for what it's worth, I'd suggest that your other possible reply is probably more accurate: there in no "paramattha" in the suttas in this sense...


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:46 pm
Title: Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas
Content:
*Sigh*  How is any word of that discourse paramattha Mike?


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:16 pm
Title: Re: too many paths & doors & bodies?
Content:
Thich Nhat Hanh's books have started many people on the path. But if you're interested in Theravāda practice you may like teachers such as Ajahn Chah and Ajahn Sumedho. The wonderful thing is that most of their translated teachings are available for free. 

Teachings of Ajahn Chah

Teachings of Ajahn Sumedho

Forest Sangha Publications


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:55 pm
Title: Re: The anapana spot?
Content:
All of the different common instructions will work if applied. The most important point is to sit on your sitting mat or cushion -- regularly and repeatedly -- and apply the instruction that resonates with you.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:42 pm
Title: Re: 7 Billionth Person Will Be Born Ahead Of Schedule
Content:
Yes, and it's a challenge that has to be approached from many angles. It probably goes without saying that promoting better management of resources and fairer distribution is essential, as is promoting and funding education, education, education.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:29 pm
Title: Re: Absorption of a thoroughbred man
Content:
The absorption of a thoroughbred man described in the first sutta is generally considered to refer to an arahant's fruition-gnosis samādhi (aññāphala samādhi). 

What Ven. Ṭhānissaro translates as "themeless concentration of awareness" (animitta cetosamādhi) in MN 121 is related to the signless samādhi we discussed in that other "Concentration on the Signless" thread. And as I mentioned on that thread these vipassanā samādhis and supramundane samādhis aren't systematized in enough detail in the suttas to really have any indication of what they originally referred to. Therefore, it's prudent to rely on the Paṭisambhidāmagga, the Abhidhammapiṭaka, and the commentaries to fill in the details. The commentary to MN 121 says that in this context animitta cetosamādhi refers to vipassanā samādhi (vipassanācittasamādhi) which is without any sign of permanence, etc. The commentary says that the next section of the sutta where the outflows are known to be abandoned refers to reflexive vipassanā (paṭivipassanā).


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:47 pm
Title: Re: The 3 Poisons: Another Name?
Content:
Sure. Also, as you probably know, in the context of meditation it's common to refer to the five hindrances (pañcanīvaraṇā: pañca - nīvaraṇā): (i) impulsive desire for sensual pleasure (kāmacchanda), (ii) aversion (byāpāda), (iii) lethargy and drowsiness (thīnamiddha), (iv) restlessness and anxiety (uddhaccakukkucca), and (v) doubt (vicikicchā).


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:41 pm
Title: Re: 7 Billionth Person Will Be Born Ahead Of Schedule
Content:
I was just told that today has been designated as the day we hit 7 000 000 000. I don't think I've ever written a number that large before.... 

Let's remember that there will be many, many, many who will be undernourished today. Many who will die of malnutrition and treatable diseases. The statistics are staggering. Saṃsāra can be ... nasty.



On a lighter note, Happy Halloween!


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:34 am
Title: Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas
Content:
It's probably also worth mentioning that Buddhaghosa also gets it right, although not without a bit of waffling due to the cumbersome two truth hermeneutic. Relying on the path sequence outlined in the canoncial Dhammasaṅgaṇī, he explains in Visuddhimagga, Chapter 21, the awakening factors, path factors, and jhāna factors of the path attainment for the first three types of practitioners, which develops from the stage of equanimity about fabrications:
According to governance by insight, the path arisen in a bare-insight worker, and the path arisen in one who possesses a jhāna attainment but who has not made the jhāna the basis for insight, and the path made to arise by comprehending unrelated fabrications after using the first jhāna as the basis for insight, are paths of the first jhāna only. In each case there are seven awakening factors, eight path factors, and five jhāna factors. For while their preliminary insight can be accompanied by happiness and it can be accompanied by equanimity, when their insight reaches the state of equanimity about fabrications at the time of emergence it is accompanied by happiness.

Ven. Ñāṇārāma also gets it. The path-cognition of stream-entry is a supramundane jhāna which must include the presence of the jhāna factors, and so on. In his Seven Stages of Purification &amp; the Insight Knowledges he states:
At whatever moment he attains the supramundane path, that path-consciousness comes to be reckoned as a jhāna in itself, since it has some affinity with the factors proper to jhānas, such as the first jhāna. What are known as transcendental meditations in Buddhism are these supramundane levels of concentration within the reach of the pure insight meditator.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:57 am
Title: Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas
Content:
After recently reading Ṭhānissaro's rather bizarre footnotes to MN 38, you'll have to forgive me for not sharing your optimism on this point.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:18 am
Title: Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas
Content:
And this is the crux of the issue: Those "simpler bits" are also conventional and not ultimate things in any way, shape, or form. The entire path uses conventional designations from start to finish, and it's misguided to assume that those conventions represent a real substratum of experience (i.e. an "ultimate reality") independent of those conceptual categories themselves. The culmination of cognitive liberation occurs when those categories are also transcended during supramundane meditation.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:03 am
Title: Re: 3 Bodies of the Buddha
Content:
Because not all vajrayanists will agree with your literal historical narrative.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:56 am
Title: Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas
Content:
Let's be clear here. Ven. Ñāṇananda has explicitly referred to the commentarial era two truth theory as a "deviation from the original position at the commentarial level." He also calls the well-known commentarial verse quoted by Buddhaghosa in support of the two truth theory a "naïve defense" of said theory. Concept and Reality In Early Buddhist Thought:
[T]he word ‘paramattha’ in its earlier and non-technical usage, actually meant the Highest Goal as the object of realization, and any words tending towards that goal were called ‘paramatthasaṃhita’ (connected with the Highest Goal), irrespective of their precision or technicality. However, the Buddha, for his part, was content to treat all of them as ‘sammuti’. For him, they were ‘merely worldly conventions in common use, which he made use of, without clinging to them’ (DN I 202, Poṭṭhapāda Sutta).

One wonders whether this simple though profound attitude of the Buddha towards concepts, has been properly handed down in tradition, when for instance one comes across the following verse quoted approvingly by Buddhaghosa (source unknown) in his commentary to the Anaṅgaṇa Sutta of the Majjhima Nikāya:

Duve saccāni akkhāsi, sambuddho vadataṃ varo; 
sammutiṃ paramatthañca, tatiyaṃ nūpalabbhati. 
Saṅketavacanaṃ saccaṃ, lokasammutikāraṇā; 
paramatthavacanaṃ saccaṃ, dhammānaṃ bhūtakāraṇā. 
Tasmā vohārakusalassa, lokanāthassa satthuno; 
sammutiṃ voharantassa, musāvādo na jāyati.

"The Fully Enlightened One, the best of those who speak, declared two truths, the conventional and the absolute; there can be no third.

"Words of symbolic nature are true by reason of their existence in worldly parlance. Words of absolute significance, are true by reason of the existence of the elements.

"Hence, even though the Lord of the World, the Teacher versed in worldly parlance, makes use of such conventional speech, there arises no offence of falsehood for him."

If one can appreciate the significance of the term ‘nippapañca,’ one might realize that the Buddha could magnanimously afford to dispense with such naïve defenses as the above, against any charges of his having violated the fourth precept.

And so this criticism of the commentarial hermeneutic -- which is what it is -- isn't just "an opinion" that's been fostered here on DW by a few fervent "sutta-only" types. It's been a part of the contemporary Theravāda discussion since the publication of C &amp; R in 1971. It's a rather important issue occurring within contemporary Theravāda which probably shouldn't be dismissed lightly. And at some point a practitioner has to decide which interpretation of the dhamma they are going to use. In this particular case, I don't really see how one can have it both ways. To try to regard the two truth theory as merely a nominal distinction undermines the very purpose of the interpretation that it attempts to impose.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:02 am
Title: Re: 3 Bodies of the Buddha
Content:
It's probably a good idea to avoid making generalizations regarding the position of all vajrayanists.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:55 pm
Title: Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas
Content:
This "breaking experience down into simpler bits" isn't a two truth notion per se. You're a pretty smart fellow Mike. I find it kinda hard to believe that you don't understand these distinctions, and don't see the problems and limitations of the commentarial two truth theory?


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:22 am
Title: Re: Body of a Buddha vs. Arahant in Abhidhamma
Content:
It's standard canonical Theravāda that a buddha has knowledge and abilities not shared by arahant disciples. The Paṭisambhidāmagga (a text contained in the Khuddakanikāya) lists the following:
knowledge of the penetration of other beings' faculties
knowledge of other beings' biases and underlying tendancies
knowledge of the twin miracle*
knowledge of the attainment of great compassion
omniscience &amp; unobstructed knowledge

*i.e. the ability to produce fire and water from various parts of the body, as well as walk amid an aura of colors while a created image of his body sits or lies down, etc.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:52 am
Title: Re: Two "truths"/"descriptions" and meditation in the suttas
Content:
Well, this query is bound up with these questions such as what is conceptual and what is real and so on. Indian Buddhists and non-Buddhists alike spent well over 1000 years debating and arguing over this issue.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:29 pm
Title: Re: Two truths theory. Did Buddha teach it?
Content:
The four so-called "paramattha dhammas" -- mind (citta), mental factors (cetasikā), form (rūpa), and nibbāna, considered as ultimate realities.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:53 pm
Title: Re: Two truths theory. Did Buddha teach it?
Content:
You're certainly free to invent your own version of a nominal two truth theory, but that basically negates the entire premise. At any rate, it's far easier to avoid this paramattha notion altogether. In this way one is less prone to tacitly condoning errant views -- views which you know still permeate much modern Theravāda discourse where the "big four" are taken as sacred cows. Ven. Ñāṇananda:
If there is no sub­stance in any­thing, what is left is empti­ness. But many peo­ple are afraid of words like śūnyatā. They want to pro­tect their four.

And:
If one does not approach the com­men­tar­ial lit­er­a­ture with a crit­i­cal eye, one would be trapped. Unfor­tu­nately many are.

Word.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:08 pm
Title: Re: Two truths theory. Did Buddha teach it?
Content:
We've already discussed this in detail here, and here, and here, etc., etc. In the first thread I quoted the relevant passages from Karunadasa's essay on the commentarial dhamma theory.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:09 am
Title: Re: Two truths theory. Did Buddha teach it?
Content:
It's pretty simple really: The basis for all designations is merely appearances as they appear to non-impaired cognitions. Therefore, conventions are accepted, but without any misguided attempt to ultimately establish or prove anything. And by learning to rest the mind in this absence of reification (by uniting samatha &amp; vipassanā), one realizes the complete pacification of mental proliferation (nippapañca), which is synonymous with nibbāna (i.e. the total extinguishment of passion, aggression, &amp; delusion).


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:32 am
Title: Re: Two truths theory. Did Buddha teach it?
Content:
Dhammas are mere designation (paññattimatta). The classical Mahāvihāra two truth hermeneutic is deeply flawed -- resulting in either an eternalistic or nihilistic view. We see variations on these extremes playing out all over this forum and amongst many Theravāda teachers as well. The aggregates are not to be taken as "the given." Nor is contact, etc. Nibbāna is the elimination of passion, aggression, and delusion. End of story.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:44 am
Title: Re: Two truths theory. Did Buddha teach it?
Content:
Indeed. Sustained recognition of impermanence will eventually shred all philosophical views.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:44 am
Title: Re: The Buddha's Guide to Mental Cultivation for Trainees
Content:
Hmmm.... I think that they are meant to be instructions even at the Paṭisambhidāmagga stage of commentary. They are meant to be learned, then experientially contemplated and recognized, and then personally known. So developmentally we would have: contemplation (anupassanā) ⇄ recognition (saññā) → gnosis (ñāṇa).

This correlates to the more standard three stages of discernment (paññā): discernment obtained through hearing (sutamayā paññā), discernment obtained through reflection (cintāmayā paññā), and discernment obtained through meditative development (bhāvanāmayā paññā). The first two comprise theoretical levels of discernment where one hears the teachings and reflects on them. This reflection is the beginning of internalizing the meaning of what has been heard. But for discernment to be liberating the process of internalization must deepen through meditative development. This level is direct experiential discernment.

AFAIK it's only in some of the modern Vipassanā texts where it's said that a student shouldn't learn the "stages of insight" prior to recognizing them on the sitting mat.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:32 am
Title: Re: The Buddha's Guide to Mental Cultivation for Trainees
Content:
There are a number of similar lists found in the suttas, which are either called recognitions (saññā) or contemplations (anupassanā). For example:
Recognition of Impermanence (Aniccasaññā):

AN 10.60 (PTS A v 108)
AN 7.49 (ATI 7.46, PTS A iv 46)
AN 7.95 (PTS A iv 145)
SN 46.71 (PTS S v 132, CDB 1620) 

Recognition of Unsatisfactoriness in what is Impermanent (Anicca Dukkhasaññā):

AN 7.49 (ATI 7.46, PTS A iv 46)
AN 7.96 (PTS A iv 146)
SN 46.72 (PTS S v 132, CDB 1620) 

Recognition of Selflessness (Anattasaññā) or Recognition of Selflessness in what is Unsatisfactory (Dukkha Anattasaññā):

AN 10.60 (PTS A v 108)
AN 7.49 (ATI 7.46, PTS A iv 46)
AN 7.97 (PTS A iv 146)
SN 46.73 (PTS S v 133, CDB 1620)

Recognition of Decay (Khayasaññā):

AN 7.98 (PTS A iv 146)

Recognition of Passing Away (Vayasaññā):

AN 7.99 (PTS A iv 146)

Recognition of Dispassion (Virāgasaññā):

AN 10.60 PTS A v 108
AN 7.100 (PTS A iv 146)
SN 46.75 (PTS S v 133, CDB 1621)

Recognition of Cessation (Nirodhasaññā):

AN 10.60 (PTS A v 108): 
AN 7.101 (PTS A iv 146)
SN 46.76 (PTS S v 133, CDB 1621)

Recognition of Release (Paṭinissaggasaññā):

AN 7.102 (PTS A iv 146)

A standard version in a practice context is the last tetrad of MN 118 Ānāpānassati Sutta: contemplation of impermanence (aniccānupassanā), contemplation of dispassion (virāgānupassanā), contemplation of cessation (nirodhānupassanā), contemplation of release (paṭinissaggānupassanā).

These lists were then further extended in the Paṭisambhidāmagga, where we find the mega-list of 18 insight-gnoses as they came to be called in the commentarial tradition. The eighteen insight-ñāṇa-s as presented in the Paṭisambhidāmagga are:
(1) contemplation of impermanence (aniccānupassanā), (2) contemplation of unsatisfactoriness (dukkhānupassanā), (3) contemplation of selflessness (anattānupnupassanā), (4) contemplation of disenchantment (nibbidānupassanā), (5) contemplation of dispassion (virāgānupassanā), (6) contemplation of cessation (nirodhānupassanā), (7) contemplation of release (paṭinissaggānupassanāā), (8) contemplation of decay (khayānupassanā), (9) contemplation of passing away (vayānupassanā), (10) contemplation of change (vipariṇāmānupassanā), (11) contemplation of signlessness (animittānupassanā), (12) contemplation of desirelessness (apaṇihitānupassanā), (13) contemplation of emptiness (suññatāupassanā), (14) clear seeing of dhamma with heightened discernment (adhipaññādhammavipassanā), (15) gnosis and vision of things as they are (yathābhūtañāṇadassana), (16) contemplation of misery/danger (ādīnavānupassanā), (17) reflexive contemplation (paṭisaṅkhānupassanā), (18) contemplation of turning away (vivaṭṭanānupassanā).

This system is the one used in the Visuddhimagga and became the standard process model for the modern Burmese Vipassanā Meditaion traditions.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:50 am
Title: Re: What body or kaya is this?
Content:
Yes, and it's called a mind-made body (manomayakāya). There is a standard pericope description given in the suttas, such as DN 2:
With his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, he directs and inclines it to creating a mind-made body. From this body he creates another body, endowed with form, made of the mind, complete in all its parts, not inferior in its faculties. Just as if a man were to draw a reed from its sheath. The thought would occur to him: 'This is the sheath, this is the reed. The sheath is one thing, the reed another, but the reed has been drawn out from the sheath.' Or as if a man were to draw a sword from its scabbard. The thought would occur to him: 'This is the sword, this is the scabbard. The sword is one thing, the scabbard another, but the sword has been drawn out from the scabbard.' Or as if a man were to pull a snake out from its slough. The thought would occur to him: 'This is the snake, this is the slough. The snake is one thing, the slough another, but the snake has been pulled out from the slough.' In the same way — with his mind thus concentrated, purified, and bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, and attained to imperturbability, the monk directs and inclines it to creating a mind-made body. From this body he creates another body, endowed with form, made of the mind, complete in all its parts, not inferior in its faculties.

There is some further mention in the commentaries. For a modern academic survey of manomaya &amp; manomayakāya in a Pan-Indian context as well as in the Pāli tradition see Sue Hamilton's Identity and Experience: The Constitution of the Human Being According to Early Buddhism, pp. 138-68.

I can't remember off-hand if tradition specifically maintains that the Buddha employed a mind-made body to ascend to the heaven and teach the Abhidhamma or not (IMO the story is mythological and not historical).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:10 am
Title: Re: Which flavour should I choose?
Content:
No matter which tradition you choose to follow, if you commit to an authentic practice sooner or later you will be challenged to step outside of your comfort zone of habitual thoughts and (re-)actions.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:43 pm
Title: Re: MN mp3 by B. Bodhi: disappeared?
Content:
Thanks Chris. It's good to know that it wasn't a more serious problem.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:28 am
Title: Re: Paul Williams' On converting from Buddhism to Catholicism
Content:
Indeed. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:57 am
Title: Re: MN mp3 by B. Bodhi: disappeared?
Content:
I think they're all here Sacha: A Systematic Study of the Majjhima Nikaya. The site is at http://bodhimonastery.com/bm/.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:36 pm
Title: Re: Comparative Study of the MN - Ven. Anālayo
Content:
Thanks Micha.

Best wishes,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:48 am
Title: Re: Dualism
Content:
Nyanananda, Gunaratana, Analayo, Gombrich, etc., come to mind. A Google search will yield links.

At any rate, the dhamma isn't dualism or monism or any other philosophical trip -- all of which are manifestations of mental proliferation. Understanding the four noble truths and developing the noble eightfold path puts an end to mental proliferation. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:48 pm
Title: Re: Dualism
Content:
This blog post makes some rather sweeping generalizations which are not entirely accurate. This fellow's opinions should be taken with a few grains of salt. There are far better modern commentators available.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:56 am
Title: Re: New translations of P.A. Payutto's classic Buddhadhamma
Content:
Yes, very good. Thanks for posting the links Ajahn Gavesako.

Best wishes,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:59 am
Title: Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds
Content:
A preoccupation with rules would also be counter-productive. Of course, some of us are uptight to begin with, and would do better to loosen up and relax. Others are sloppy, and would do better to clean things up a bit. Most of us are just unaware. But in every case, relating to renunciation as an aspect of voluntary simplicity -- a way to create some space in one's life -- is probably more helpful than trying to conform to external rules for their own sake.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:44 am
Title: Re: Mental Noting is Vipassana or Samatha meditation?
Content:
LOL...


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:17 am
Title: Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds
Content:
As others have already said, hunger goes away. Eating less is also beneficial for meditation retreat and for keeping the weight off if one lives a contemplative lifestyle long term.

A low bed is also not a problem, although the only boon I've noticed is that it makes for more spaciousness in one's bedroom, and moving from location to location is easier without having to move large beds.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:10 am
Title: Re: The ceasing of eye conscoiusness?
Content:



Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:19 am
Title: Re: Unorthodox Vipassana
Content:
Sure. The same can be said for other group identities as well. The designation only goes so far.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:21 am
Title: Re: Unorthodox Vipassana
Content:
Generally: Thai forest tradition [note lower case lettering] referring to those monks ordained in Thailand, following the ascetic tradition of Ajahn Mun, etc.

More specifically: Western Forest Sangha in the lineage of Ajahn Chah, as in, for example: Abhayagiri Monastic Foundation. Morning and Evening Chanting (Pūjā), Reflections, and Suttas, as Used by Buddhist Monasteries and Groups Associated with the Western Forest Sangha in the Lineage of Venerable Ajahn Chah, 2004.

None of these are doctrinal traditions.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:12 am
Title: Re: Sense of Urgency and Continuity of Practice
Content:
As Nicro has already mentioned, contemplating the uncertainty of the time of death, the precariousness of the conditions which sustain this precious human birth, and the suffering of all of saṃsāra, are excellent motivators to instill a sense of urgency. 

As for developing continuity in practice it's very helpful to (1) set up a daily sitting practice schedule and then stick to it; (2) practice taking mindfulness and full awareness off the sitting mat and into all daily activities; (3) develop unrestricted loving-kindness and compassion for all beings (including yourself).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:01 am
Title: Re: wondering if this is the right forum for me
Content:
Of course this is the right forum for you!  If you don't see any topics currently being discussed that interest you, feel free to create a topic. There's the Lounge and Theravada for the Modern World, and so on.... With 4000+ members here, my guess is that someone will be interested in what you have to share.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:36 pm
Title: Re: Mahayana Concept In Pali Text?
Content:
Indeed. Thanks Bhante.

Best wishes,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:32 pm
Title: Re: Unorthodox Vipassana
Content:
I agree. Teachers should always aspire to up their game. And FTR, I've been quite critical of the texts of a couple teachers from the Thai forest tradition in the past. Of course, the vast majority of monastics in the Thai forest tradition aren't scholars, and don't claim to be.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:02 pm
Title: Re: Unorthodox Vipassana
Content:
Of course.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:40 pm
Title: Re: Unorthodox Vipassana
Content:
Working through the subtleties of textual comparison to make the connections between the Pāli dhamma and appropriate Mahāyāna texts in order to discuss the continuities and discontinuities between the Theravāda texts, the Theravāda Thai forest tradition, and the dzogchen view, takes considerable effort on its own. There are very few people in this world sufficiently qualified in all of these areas. People like Amaro and Goldstein are trying to bridge the gap, but there is clearly still some way to go in order to communicate this level of practice.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:25 pm
Title: Re: Unorthodox Vipassana
Content:
And the samaṇa Gotama.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:36 pm
Title: Re: yathābhūtadassana: "seeing things as they really are"?
Content:
I think so.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:24 pm
Title: Re: yathābhūtadassana: "seeing things as they really are"?
Content:
At least a couple modern translators have suggested that a more accurate (less essentialist) translation of yathābhūtañāṇadassana would be something like "knowledge and vision of things as they have become." The point is to emphasize the the process of becoming and not some sort of static reality. In the suttas, yathābhūtañāṇadassana leads to disenchantment and dispassion.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:57 am
Title: Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?
Content:
It looks like Gombrich's new book contains some decent analysis.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:52 pm
Title: Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?
Content:
Nice rant.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:56 pm
Title: Re: The Digha Nikaya in Norwegian
Content:
Good stuff Kare!

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:27 am
Title: Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?
Content:
Ven. Ñāṇananda has understood this deeper than most. All things are relational and merely established according to agreed upon conventions.

The Paradox of the Heap.

Far better to walk away from the whole language game, calm the mind, and then let go of even that.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:52 am
Title: Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"
Content:
Like most things from the classical era it's a complex subject, and labels aren't always accurate. Basically, everyone during that period was thoroughly embedded in the abhidharma thought-world, including the so-called sautrāntika authors. The differences between authors included how much one criticized the Sarvāstivāda tenets, the methods of criticism, and so on. For example, at times the Abhidharmakośabhāsya uses quotations from the sūtras to criticize some of the orthodox interpretations. This is similar to what we see being done these days by sutta oriented Theravāda authors like Ṭhānissaro &amp; Ñāṇananda (who don't necessarily agree with each other even though they are both using a suttantika methodology).


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:31 am
Title: Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"
Content:
Yeah, the root verses are Sarvāstivāda (Northern cousin of Theravāda), and the commentary (Abhidharmakośabhāsya) is generally considered to be Sautrāntika. It's possible that the doctrine of radical momentariness that was to become a part of Theravāda through the writings of Ven. Buddhaghosa, originated amongst mainland Indian sautrāntikas.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:59 pm
Title: Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"
Content:
The Abhidharmakośa &amp; bhāsya are not Mahāyāna texts Chris.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique
Content:
No, that isn't what is being described. A non-perceptive attainment (asaññasamāpatti) and a non-percipient being (asaññasatta) are not the same as any of the four formless attainments nor the cessation of perception and feeling.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:17 am
Title: Re: Internal emptiness, external emptiness & the imperturbable
Content:
Yes, I'd say that's accurate. In the suttas, the "imperturbable" usually refers to the fourth jhāna or the formless attainments. Cf. MN 106, endnote #1.

As samādhi deepens the main spheres of focus and mental engagement are the mind sensory sphere (manāyatana) and the mental phenomena sensory sphere (dhammāyatana). Insight at this stage consists of seeing the subtlest recognition of impermanence of the mind and concomitant mental factors present. This subtle level of change is indicated in SN 35.93 Dutiyadvaya Sutta:
The mind is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise; phenomena are impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. Thus this dyad is moving (calañceva) and wavering (byathañca), impermanent (aniccaṃ), changing (vipariṇāmi), becoming otherwise (aññathābhāvi).


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:29 am
Title: Re: Internal emptiness, external emptiness & the imperturbable
Content:
The Paṭisambhidāmagga Suññatākathā defines internal and external emptiness according to the twelve sensory spheres:
What is internal emptiness?

Internally the eye is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

Internally the ear is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

Internally the nose is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

Internally the tongue is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

Internally the body is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

Internally the mind is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

This is internal emptiness.

What is external emptiness?

Externally form is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

Externally sound is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

Externally odor is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

Externally flavor is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

Externally tactile sensation is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

Externally mental phenomena are empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change.

This is external emptiness.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:45 am
Title: Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?
Content:



Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:23 pm
Title: Re: Measureless mind
Content:
Good eye Bhante! Thnx.


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:13 am
Title: Re: Measureless mind
Content:
Constructive feedback is valuable. I'd be interested to hear any suggestions for improving the content and/or navigation and/or design of the site. (Pls keep in mind that the content is only about 50% completed.)

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:33 am
Title: Re: Measureless mind
Content:
Yes.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:40 am
Title: Re: Measureless mind
Content:
Thanks for the kind words Alan. Glad to hear that you have found it to be of some use. The site is still only about 50% completed. Maybe I'll be motivated to continue with it sometime soon....

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:48 pm
Title: Re: Implications of Kurzweils Singularity on Buddhism
Content:
I think saṃsāra has always sucked and will always suck.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:08 am
Title: Re: What's mind consciousness and why it's a magic show?
Content:



Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:24 am
Title: Re: Why are the sutta's so didactic?
Content:
Yeah it's a good idea. It also doesn't hurt to memorize a few favorite passages or suttas and then recite them from memory as a regular part of one's practice.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:12 am
Title: Re: Why are the sutta's so didactic?
Content:
Yeah, I think this is the reason why the suttas don't seem to have the same appeal as literary texts. 

(I also vaguely remember learning somewhere that the custom of reading silently to oneself is a somewhat of a modern phenomenon. Historically, even books were generally read out loud.)

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:52 pm
Title: Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY LAZYEYE!
Content:
Happy birthday!!!

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:47 pm
Title: Re: The mechanics of what we call "belief"
Content:
I think this is prudent -- I do the same. Having been around long enough to know, or at least infer, the limits of my own understanding, this seems to be the most viable approach.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:19 pm
Title: Re: Ancient Buddhists
Content:



Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:17 pm
Title: Re: First Jhana...a description
Content:
Again, the canonical commentaries don't say this. You're relying on late post-canonical interpretations of these two terms. The canonical Dhammasaṅgaṇī gives the following two registers for vitakka and vicāra (the English equivalents here are those offered by Lance Cousins, who's done an exhaustive survey of all relevant Pāli sources):
vitakka: 

1. takka 2. vitakka 3. saṅkappa 4. appanā 5. byappanā 6. cetaso abhiniropanā 7. sammāsaṅkappa

1. speculation 2. thought 3. thought formation 4. fixing 5. firm fixing 6. applying the mind 7. right thought formation.

vicāra: 

1. cāra 2. vicāra 3. anuvicāra 4. upavicāra 5. cittassa anusandhānatā 6. anupekkhanatā

1. wandering 2. wandering about 3. repeated wandering about 4. frequenting 5. explorativeness of mind 6. constant examination.

And here's how the early para-canonical Peṭakopadesa defines and explains these two jhāna factors:
Here, for fulfilling non-passion he thinks the thought of renunciation. Here, for fulfilling non-aggression he thinks the thought of non-aversion. Here, for fulfilling non-delusion he thinks the thought of harmlessness.

Here, for fulfilling non-passion he is secluded from sensual pleasures. Here, for fulfilling non-aggression and fulfilling non-delusion he is secluded from unskillful phenomena. And so he enters and remains in the first jhāna, which includes directed thought and evaluation, as well as joy and pleasure born of seclusion.

Directed thought: There are three kinds of directed thought, namely the thought of renunciation, the thought of non-aversion, and the thought of harmlessness.

Here, directed thought is the first instance while evaluation is the evaluation of what is thereby received. Just as when a man sees someone approaching in the distance he does not yet know whether it is a woman or a man, but when he has received [the recognition] that “it is a woman” or “it is a man” or that “it is of such color” or that “it is one of such shape,” then when he has thought this he further scrutinizes, “How then, is he ethical or unethical, rich or poor?” This is examination. With directed thought he fixes. With examination he moves about and turns over [what has been thought].

And just as a winged bird first accumulates [speed] and then accumulates no more [speed when gliding], so too, directed thought is like the accumulation, and evaluation is like the outstretched wings which keeps preserving the directed thought and evaluation....

Directed thought is like a text-reciter who does his recitation silently. Evaluation is like him simply contemplating it.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:22 pm
Title: Re: little lies, big lies
Content:
Yeah, I've read a couple of short excerpts by Harris, but I don't know enough about him to offer an informed opinion on his views. 

My view is that rationalism is important -- an essential psychological developmental stage -- but it isn't the ultimate panacea for all human problems (personal or societal). Which brings to mind Adam Curtis' The Trap: What Happened to Our Dream of Freedom?

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:22 am
Title: Re: mind that breathes in is not the same mind that breathes out
Content:
This idea is found in the Paṭisambhidāmagga Ānāpānassatikathā:
Sign (nimitta), in-breath, out-breath, are not the object of a single mind;
One not knowing these three dhammas does not obtain development.
Sign, in-breath, out-breath, are not the object of a single mind;
One knowing well these three dhammas can then obtain development.

From the perspective of designation (paññatti), since the in-breath, out-breath, and gap between breaths are not the same object, the mind attending to each of these objects is nominally distinct.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:28 am
Title: Re: Ancient Buddhists
Content:
Yes, both "Buddhist" and "Buddhism" are modern terms.

In Pāli the term most frequently used to refer to the Buddhist religion is sāsana, meaning the "doctrine" or "teaching" (lit. "message"), or Buddhasāsana, meaning the "doctrine/teaching of the Buddha."

In Chinese the term for the Buddhist religion is fo jiao (佛教), meaning the "teaching of the Buddha."

In Tibetan the term for the Buddhist religion is nang pa'i chos, meaning the "dharma of the insiders," and a Buddhist is called a nang pa, meaning "insider."

All of these terms (i.e. sāsana, fo jiao, nang pa'i chos) are commonly translated into English as "Buddhism."

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:40 am
Title: Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY Prasadachitta!
Content:
Happy birthday!!!

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:37 am
Title: Re: little lies, big lies
Content:
From a Buddhist point of view this is only one aspect of who we are and how we became what we are. We are the product of our kamma. And kamma begins with volitional intention. The body and the brain only comprise one of the five aggregates -- important, yes -- but not the most important.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:58 am
Title: Re: little lies, big lies
Content:
How about the Buddhist view? AN 5.57:
I am the owner of my actions (kamma), heir to my actions, born of my actions, related through my actions, and have my actions as my arbitrator. Whatever I do, for good or for evil, to that will I fall heir...

To the extent that there are beings — past and future, passing away and re-arising — all beings are the owner of their actions, heir to their actions, born of their actions, related through their actions, and live dependent on their actions. Whatever they do, for good or for evil, to that will they fall heir.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:20 am
Title: Re: little lies, big lies
Content:
This sounds like the big lie of scientific materialism to me.................


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:36 am
Title: Re: Visuddhi Magga on Access To Insight
Content:
Good stuff Zom.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:30 am
Title: Re: Assessing ones progress
Content:



Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:26 am
Title: Re: Hahayana?
Content:
Indeed. It's a foolish idea.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:34 am
Title: Re: Hahayana?
Content:
If we based the veracity of any tradition on the opinions of the "average" practitioner of that tradition, we'd all be screwed.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:58 am
Title: Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?
Content:
Also, from Ven. Bodhi's Introduction to The Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha, pp. 22-23:
Again, despite the absence of any systematic account, the Majjhima offers a sufficient number of cameo portraits of the Buddha for us to obtain, with the aid of information provided by other sources, a fairly satisfactory picture of his daily activities and annual routine during the forty-five years of his ministry. A commentarial text shows the Buddha’s daily schedule as having been divided between periods of instructing the bhikkhus, giving discourses to the laity, and secluded meditation, during which he usually dwelt either in the “abode of voidness” (MN 121.3, MN 122.6) or in the attainment of great compassion. The day’s single meal was always taken in the forenoon, either received by invitation or collected on almsround, and his sleep was restricted to a few hours per night, except in the summer, when he rested briefly during the middle of the day (MN 36.46). The annual routine was determined by the Indian climate, which divided the year into three seasons - a cold season from November through February, a hot season from March through June, and a rainy season from July through October. As was customary among the ascetics of ancient India, the Buddha and his monastic community would remain at a fixed residence during the rainy season, when torrential rains and swollen rivers made travel almost impossible. During the rest of the year he would wander through the Ganges Valley expounding his teachings to all who were prepared to listen.

The Buddha’s main seats of residence for the rains retreat (vassa) were located at Savatthi in the state of Kosala and Rajagaha in the state of Magadha. At Savatthi he would usually stay at Jeta’s Grove, a park offered to him by the wealthy merchant Anathapindika, and accordingly a great number of Majjhima discourses are recorded as having been given there. Occasionally at Savatthi he would reside instead at the Eastern Park, offered by the devout lay-woman Visakha, also known as “Migara’s mother.” In Rajagaha he often stayed at the Bamboo Grove, offered by the king of Magadha, Seniya Bimbisara, or for greater seclusion, on Vulture Peak outside the city. His wanderings, during which he was usually accompanied by a large retinue of bhikkhus, ranged from the Angan country (close to modern West Bengal) to the Himalayan foothills and the Kuru country (modern Delhi). Occasionally, when he saw that a special case required his individual attention, he would leave the Sangha and travel alone (see MN 75, MN 86, MN 140).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:54 am
Title: Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?
Content:
Specifically, an arahant would frequently practice aññāphala samādhi, also called supramundane jhāna (lokuttarajjhāna).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:42 am
Title: Re: Did the buddha continue to practice meditation?
Content:
MN 122:
"But there is this (mental) dwelling discovered by the Tathagata where, not attending to any themes, he enters &amp; remains in internal emptiness. If, while he is dwelling there by means of this dwelling, he is visited by monks, nuns, lay men, lay women, kings, royal ministers, sectarians &amp; their disciples, then — with his mind bent on seclusion, tending toward seclusion, inclined toward seclusion, aiming at seclusion, relishing renunciation, having destroyed those qualities that are the basis for mental fermentation — he converses with them only as much as is necessary for them to take their leave."

DN 16:
"Now I am frail, Ananda, old, aged, far gone in years. This is my eightieth year, and my life is spent. Even as an old cart, Ananda, is held together with much difficulty, so the body of the Tathagata is kept going only with supports. It is, Ananda, only when the Tathagata, disregarding external objects, with the cessation of certain feelings, attains to and abides in the signless concentration of mind, that his body is more comfortable."

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:37 am
Title: Re: Contemplation of the body
Content:
"Loathsomeness" isn't the best translation of asubha. "Unattractiveness" is better, for the reasons already given. In practice, it's the recognition (saññā) of the undesirable aspects of the human body. AN 10.60 Girimānanda Sutta:
Now what, Ānanda, is the recognition of unattractiveness (asubhasaññā)? Here, Ānanda, a monk reflects upon this body, from the soles of the feet upwards, from the hair of the head down, bounded by skin, and filled with manifold impurities: ‘In this body there are head-hairs, body-hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, bone-marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, intestines, mesentery, undigested food, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, grease, saliva, mucus, synovial fluid, and urine.’ Thus, regarding this body he remains contemplating what is unattractive. This, Ānanda, is called the recognition of unattractiveness.

The Visuddhimagga offers a good method for breaking down the list of body parts into smaller lists of five or six items to be reflected upon at a time and memorized. The commentary on the Vibhaṅga recommends a six month program of intensive retreat to systematically learn this practice. 

And as AN 7.49 informs us, the purpose of the practice is to develop equanimity or dislike regarding the body, and thereby abandon lust for sexual intercourse. AN 7.49 Dutiyasaññā Sutta:
‘The recognition of unattractiveness, monks, when developed and cultivated, is of great fruit and benefit; it merges with the death-free, has the death-free as its end.’ Thus it was said. In reference to what was it said?

Monks, when a monk’s mind frequently remains acquainted with the recognition of unattractiveness, his mind shrinks away from, recoils, pulls back, and is not drawn toward the attainment of sexual intercourse, and either equanimity or dislike are established. Monks, just as a cock’s feather or a piece of tendon, when thrown into a fire, shrinks away, recoils, pulls back, and is not drawn in; in the same way, when a monk’s mind frequently remains acquainted with the recognition of unattractiveness, his mind shrinks away from, recoils, pulls back, and is not drawn toward the attainment of sexual intercourse, and either equanimity or dislke are established.

If, monks, when a monk’s mind frequently remains acquainted with the recognition of unattractiveness, his mind inclines toward the attainment of sexual intercourse, or if admiration continues, then he should know, ‘I have not developed the recognition of unattractiveness, there is no stepwise distinction in me, I have not obtained the strength of development.’ In that way he is fully aware there. But if, monks, when a monk’s mind frequently remains acquainted with the recognition of unattractiveness, his mind shrinks away from, recoils, pulls back, and is not drawn toward the attainment of sexual intercourse, and either equanimity or dislike are established, then he should know, ‘I have developed the recognition of unattractiveness, there is stepwise distinction in me, I have obtained the strength of development.’ In that way he is fully aware there.

‘The recognition of unattractiveness, monks, when developed and cultivated, is of great fruit and benefit; it merges with the death-free, has the death-free as its end.’ Thus it was said. And in reference to this it was said.

Equanimity (upekkhā) is the optimal mental quality to be developed by this practice, and dislike (pāṭikulyatā) is a stage leading to equanimity. Pāṭikulyatā is related to the term paṭikkūla (paṭi+kūla, lit. "against the slope") which has connotations such as "inclining away," "disagreeable," "impure," etc. The commentaries highlight the recognition of impurity (paṭikkūlasaññā) and attention to impurity (paṭikkūlamanasikāra).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:09 pm
Title: Re: Buddhaghosa on Visuddhimagga. Did he believe in it?
Content:
And not just the commentaries and Buddhaghosa, but the entirety of the canonical Abhidhamma as well. This wholesale rejection is misinformed and IMO is possibly the single greatest disconnect within contemporary Theravāda.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:55 pm
Title: Re: Happy Birthday Daverupa!
Content:
Happy birthday Dave!!!

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:02 am
Title: Re: Happy Birthday thereductor!
Content:
Happy Birthday!!!



All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:27 am
Title: Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?
Content:
Of course. A point that isn't often mentioned is that a number of the most widely practiced Buddhist meditation lineages each practice different variations of mindfulness meditation. Not only Theravāda Vipassanā lineages, but also Sōtō Zen, Kagyu Mahāmudrā, and Nyingma Dzogchen are each a unique version of mindfulness meditation.

The only thing that I've ever taken issue with on this subject is the claim made by a few modern Theravādins who maintain that they've rediscovered the Buddha's actual "jhāna," and that everyone else, practicing khaṇikasamādhi mindfulness and so on, has got it all wrong.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:33 pm
Title: Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?
Content:
And the fact that the discussion is still presently occurring at all is a very good thing. It's a sign of a healthy, vibrant, living tradition peopled by diverse individuals who are actually interested in practice. Otherwise, Buddhist meditation would be little more than an academic curiosity and the sutta records and classical meditation manuals just dusty museum pieces.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:42 am
Title: Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?
Content:
Buddhists discussing, debating, and disagreeing with other Buddhists on a variety of subjects is almost as ancient as Buddhism itself.

This particular subject of debate appears in the Kathāvatthu, where, for a number of reasons, the proposed resolution isn't very convincing. It also appears in the Abhidharmakośabhāsya in terms somewhat related to certain aspects of contemporary discussions of the subject. After presenting both sides of the debate, Vasubandhu concludes by saying the following:
A certain school maintains the system that has been presented, but the ancient masters (pūrvācārya-s) are not in agreement on this. Consequently the point should be further examined.

If a learned Indian scholar monk of the caliber of Vasubandhu couldn't find a satisfactory resolution to the subtler points of disagreement, then we shouldn't be surprised or bothered by the fact that it is still a subject of debate 1600 years later.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:40 am
Title: Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?
Content:
Indeed. Preferably with the focus on the texts and not personal experiences. This is standard Buddhist etiquette.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:37 am
Title: Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?
Content:
Discussing samathabhāvanā is no different from discussing vipassanābhāvanā or mettābhāvanā.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:00 pm
Title: Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?
Content:
Indeed. It can't be emphasized enough that the path is about relinquishing acquisitions, not about compiling a resume to try to impress others.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:39 pm
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
All extant Buddhist traditions agree that the object of samatha is a mental object cognized via the sixth consciousness. However, schools such as the Nyingma, Kagyu, and Sakya also develop śamatha by using a visible object, such as a small stone, a piece of wood, or a buddha statue. There is no contradiction here because the specific object of focus is still individuated and engaged in by the sixth mental consciousness (which occurs concomitantly with visual consciousness according to the Yogācāra model of eight consciousnesses).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:17 pm
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
Well, worded differently, yes. See, for example, Contemplation of the Mind: Practicing Cittānupassanā by Ven. Khemavamsa (esp. page 8 and then touched upon throughout the text).

What you are referring to was developed within Indian Sautrāntika and Yogācāra Pramāṇavāda (Epistemology). It was also developed in somewhat different terms in the Kagyu treatises on co-emergent mahāmudrā.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:39 pm
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
Tilt and Bodom have already given some good quotations for momentary samādhi. Pīti and sukha are present in access samādhi, but there is more fluctuation with access samādhi than with fixed samādhi. See The Path of Freedom Chapter VIII, pages 79-80, and The Path of Purification Chapter IV, paragraphs 32 &amp; 33, page 125.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:41 am
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
Thanks Bill. I'd be interested in what he has to say.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:47 pm
Title: Re: Is matter (rupa) a denser vibrational form of energy?
Content:
Indeed.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:16 pm
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
Sati includes the quality of remembrance ("bringing to mind"). Upekkhā includes the affective quality of equanimity ("mental evenness"). Vipassanā includes the cognitive qualities of recognition and discernment ("understanding"). With vipassanā one begins by primarily recognizing the impermanent characteristic -- the change or "becoming otherwise" -- of observed phenomena. This recognition becomes more subtle and pervasive as practice deepens.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:18 pm
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
It's worth noting that according to this understanding where the proximate meditative stabilization is a form realm mind, the proximate meditative stabilization cannot be equivalent to the Theravāda access samādhi (upacārasamādhi) as Alan Wallace has asserted. According to Ledi Sayādaw's Ānāpāna Dīpani, access samādhi is still a sense-sphere meditation (kāmāvacarabhāvanā), i.e. included within the desire realm plane. This means that a better equivalent for access samādhi is the ninth mental abiding, setting in equipoise (samādhāna, mnyam par 'jog pa), which is also a desire realm mind.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:51 am
Title: Re: Prayers for SATTVA
Content:
May you be well Sattva.

Tadyathā oṃ bhaiṣajye bhaiṣajye mahābhaiṣajya samudgate svāhā. 

Best wishes,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:15 am
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
It's a very ancient debate. One version of it is recorded right in the Abhidharmakośabhāsya. There were, and still are, sautrāntikas who maintain that the internal felt-sense of pleasure (sukha) experienced in jhāna is produced by internal winds within the body. The Abhidharmakośabhāsya:
In the state of absorption, the body is penetrated by a wind born of excellent mental samādhi; this wind is tangible which is agreeably felt (sukhavedanīya) and is called well-being. Hence there is produced a tactile consciousness.

IMO this is just another way of trying to describe the same experience as described in the above quotations.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:56 pm
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
It's not a very common practice, but some people do. I've used kasiṇa maṇḍalas in the past. It's a very effective method for inducing deeper samatha.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:13 am
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
If you're interested in the classical Theravāda system of samathabhāvanā &amp; jhāna according to Ācariya Buddhaghosa, et al, the best English language sources are Ven. Ñāṇamoli's translation of the Visuddhimagga, The Path of Purification, and Ven. Gunaratana's PhD dissertation, A Critical Analysis of the Jhānas in Theravāda Buddhist Meditation. (I would recommend reading the latter before tackling the Visuddhimagga.)

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:23 pm
Title: Re: Did anyone here attain jhana?
Content:
Not only is there no benefit from publicly claiming ariya attainment, there is really no benefit from thinking oneself is an ariya. Far better to just practice.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:31 pm
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
Well, sūtrayāna lamrim and anuttarayogatantra kyerim &amp; dzogrim are different paths with different methods.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:30 pm
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
There continuities and discontinuities between Indian Mādhyamaka and East Asian Chan/Zen. But it would take this topic too far afield to bring this into the present discussion (there's already more than enough to try to discuss here!).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:42 am
Title: Re: What the Buddha did not teach - Christopher Titmuss
Content:
I agree. Arguing "what the Buddha actually taught" based on grammatical structure is problematic, to say the least. K.R. Norman is one of the foremost scholars of Middle Indo-Aryan languages including Pāli, and is also a former president of the Pāli Text Society. In a paper titled "Pāli Philology and the Study of Buddhism," published in The Buddhist Forum, vol. 1, 1990, he says:
It cannot be emphasized too much that all the versions of canonical Hīnayāna Buddhist texts which we possess are translations, and even the earliest we possess are translations of some still earlier version, now lost.

Also, Daniel Boucher, Bodhisattvas of the Forest and the Formation of the Mahāyāna:
The history of the transmission of Buddhism has also in many ways been the history of its translations. Regardless of which language the Buddha himself spoke, a source of ongoing scholarly debate, he certainly did not preach in any of the languages in which his purported sayings are preserved. Although not frequently brought to the fore, our corpus of Indian Buddhist texts — be they Pāli, Gāndhārī, or Sanskrit — is a corpus of translations.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:41 am
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
Rinpoche is referring to the gradualist sūtrayāna system of Kamalaśīla which employs mādhyamaka reasonings as vipaśyanā, which are inferrential. For Kamalaśīla, vipaśyanā is always conceptual (savilkalpa), and for him this conceptual reasoning is necessary in order to realize non-conceptual gnosis (nirvikalpajñāna). But analytical meditation employing mādhyamaka reasonings has no parallel in Theravāda, and Theravādins do not regard their type of vipassanā as being inferential or conceptual.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:53 pm
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
Well, you're missing about 1800 years of Indian commentarial development. 

Firstly, for Buddhaghosa and all subsequent Theravāda commentators who follow his system, one cannot engage in vipassanā while abiding in form sphere jhāna, because the object-basis of a form sphere jhāna is not a paramattha dhamma. Therefore, a yogi must emerge from form sphere jhāna, then engage in vipassanā prior to entering the first noble path of stream-entry. Thus, form sphere jhāna is an optional pathway, and not essential for the attainment of the path of seeing. 

And a number of Sarvāstivāda, Sautrāntika, and Yogācāra treatises also maintain that a śrāvaka can attain the path of seeing via prepatory stage samādhi (anāgamya-samādhi, which is the equivalent of access samādhi), without first developing form dhyāna (although, contrary to Buddhaghosa, et al, they all maintain that vipaśyanā can be engaged while abiding in dhyāna, if one has developed śamatha to that level).

Secondly, contemporary Theravāda is primarily an ordination lineage these days, with a diversity of different practice traditions. Not everyone accepts Buddhaghosa or even the entirety of the Abhidhammapiṭaka as being authoritative. And teachers from different practice traditions don't always agree with each other. This is somewhat akin to Tibetan Buddhism, where there is the common Mūlasarvāstivāda ordination lineage, and a number of different commentarial and practice traditions (Nyingma, Kagyu, Sakya, Gelug, etc.) which don't always agree.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:15 pm
Title: Re: Shamatha In The Theravada Tradition
Content:
As always, depends upon the context, as well as who you ask.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:44 pm
Title: Re: Solely Anapanasati
Content:
The seven factors of awakening cover the same ground, progressing through more advanced stages of practice.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:03 pm
Title: Re: What is 'objectification'?
Content:
Ah. As I'm largely uneducated in the Western philosophical tradition, I find Ñāṇavīra difficult to understand (and also disposed to pursuing unnecessary tangents).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:32 pm
Title: Re: What is 'objectification'?
Content:
Objectification ensues from subjectivity. Ñāṇavīra has also missed the point.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:30 am
Title: Re: What is 'objectification'?
Content:
Ven. Ṭhānissaro's Introduction to MN 18 explains papañca quite well from a practical perspective. He also explains why he has now chosen to translate papañca as "objectification." This is an updated version of MN 18, as he used to have papañca translated as "complication" in this sutta and introduction. 

[Note to members: Translation is not easy. One only has to look at the amount of experimentation Ven. Ñāṇamoli engaged in throughout his career as a translator to see the utility of trying different non-Pāli options. And while Ven. Bodhi's translations are probably the most reliable grammatically, there is still plenty of room for exploring alternate and more fitting translations of a wide variety of terms. As Lance Cousins says in his Review of The Middle Length Discourses:
Contrary to Bhikkhu Bodhi, I believe that it is most important at this stage to discourage the adoption of a standard misrendering; what is needed is much more creativity and variety among translators so as to facilitate the discovery of better ways of expressing the ideas of early Buddhism.

The translation of Buddhist texts into Western languages is still a work in progress, and in the Pāli tradition there is a very small number of scholars interested in these texts (e.g. compare with the large number of translators working in the Tibetan traditions). This can create the illusion that everything essential and fundamental is being conveyed by one or another translator. But this is not the case. I would recommend reading Lance Cousins complete Review of The Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha to get a small taste for how someone knowledgeable about the many issues involved in hermeneutics and translation views such matters.]

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:10 am
Title: Re: What is 'objectification'?
Content:
Ven. Ñāṇananda discusses the commentarial developments related to papañca in Concept and Reality, pp. 120-126. Early sources such as the Mahāniddesa and the Nettippakaraṇa accurately explain papañca as the proliferation of craving, conceit, and views. Later authors such as Buddhaghosa and Dhammapāla get involved in questionable etymologies, resulting in interpreting papañca as "delay," that is, a delay which causes one to linger in saṃsāra.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:22 pm
Title: Re: What is 'objectification'?
Content:
Ven. Ñāṇananda wrote a book largely dealing with the term papañca. Concept and Reality in Early Buddhist Thought.

papañca: conceptual proliferation

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:12 am
Title: Re: On the path to stream entry
Content:
See Path, Fruit, and Nibbāna by Ven. Kheminda.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:20 am
Title: Re: What the Buddha did not teach - Christopher Titmuss
Content:
A pretty good summary. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:59 am
Title: Re: Happy Birthday cooran ! ! !
Content:
Happy birthday Chris!

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:11 am
Title: Re: Reading the suttas is fun!
Content:
A couple of my favorites....

AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

Thag 18 Mahākassapattheragāthā

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:59 am
Title: Re: "Rise and Fall" How to practice it?
Content:
It's mainly a reference to the necessary distinction between unskillful non-perceptive attainments (asaññasamāpatti) and integral meditative composure (sammāsamādhi). Integral meditative composure is always a perceptive, functional state.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:54 am
Title: Re: "Rise and Fall" How to practice it?
Content:
"Deeper" isn't necessarily "better." This has been explained here. An optimal samādhi for developing insight (vipassanābhāvanā) necessarily includes perception (saññā), mental engagement (manasikāra) and volitional intention (cetanā). Cf MN 111. It also involves skill in the analytical understanding of phenomena (dhammapaṭisambhidā) -- which necessarily includes knowing and comprehending what is occurring as it occurs in one's mind-stream. Cf. AN 7.38.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:39 pm
Title: Re: "Rise and Fall" How to practice it?
Content:
The accepted standard is to support your assertions with canonical passages. This is both a common courtesy and a time-honored method of interpretive analysis.

The developmental path is about abandoning hindrances and eliminating outflows (āsavas). There is a spectrum of meditative states which can aid in this. But there is no good reason to maintain that jhāna is an entirely passive state. There is an important distinction to be discerned between the refinement of volitional intention and the absence of volitional intention. The former is much more conducive to developing and using an optimal samādhi at least until the attainment of the non-returner path. Inert meditative states are not ideal for training in heightened mind or heightened discernment. They all too easily become cocoons for zoning out.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:28 pm
Title: Re: "Rise and Fall" How to practice it?
Content:
The Vimuttimagga is less restrictive in its treatment of jhāna than the Visuddhimagga. However, I think Dr. Chu is primarily referring to the numerous non-Pāli commentaries, which are quite explicit in including vipassanā as a mental quality employed in jhāna. (When it comes to Nikāya school commentarial opinions and interpretations I don't see any reason to privilege what remains of Tāmraparnīya Theravāda over other Sthaviravāda schools. They were all basing their interpretations on very similar redactions of discourses.)

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:38 pm
Title: Re: "Rise and Fall" How to practice it?
Content:
This discussion in this particular sub-forum necessarily includes discussion of jhāna as sammāsamādhi. Moreover, you're the one who brought this idea of volitionless jhāna into the present discussion. Your interpretation of rise-and-fall has no canonical basis whatsoever.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:07 pm
Title: Re: "Rise and Fall" How to practice it?
Content:
No Pāli sutta or treatise accords with your notion that "the will is shut down" in jhāna or that the aggregate of volition has disappeared. Cetanā and numerous other saṅkhāras are all present in each jhāna.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:18 am
Title: Re: Jhāna: Buddhist or not?
Content:
I'm all for the threefold training aggregations of ethical conduct, meditative composure, and discernment. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:41 am
Title: Re: Jhāna: Buddhist or not?
Content:
Sammāsamādhi offers more than what is commonly presented as vipassanā jhāna. Awakening is not easy. The Pāli dhamma has a significant number of meditative practices which are effective for working directly with specific hindrances, and so on. Regarding these practices as unable to assist or induce insight isn't very helpful in the long run.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:43 am
Title: Jhāna: Buddhist or not?
Content:
Here is a paper by Keren Arbel: Buddhist or Not? Thinking Anew the Role of the Jhānas in the Path of Awakening.


 Jhana - Buddhist-or-Not.pdf
(100.03 KiB) Downloaded 693 times


Paper presented in "Buddhism in Asia." A Day Seminar with Prof. Jan Nattier and Prof. John McRae, Tel Aviv University.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:37 am
Title: Re: "Rise and Fall" How to practice it?
Content:
I can understand the Aṭṭhakathā level of commentary, but commentarial Theravāda isn't a major focus or concern of mine. The canonical and para-canonical texts are.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:39 am
Title: Re: mindfulness vs concentration
Content:
Yes. And this is why the fourth jhāna includes the purity of mindfulness (satipārisuddhi).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:26 am
Title: Re: This one's for Alan and Dan74
Content:
Lovely pictures.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:19 am
Title: Re: What is 'objectification'?
Content:
It's helpful to have access to the works of various translators, as this allows for considering the teachings from different perspectives. No single translation is going to cover the full range of meaning of a Pāli term, phrase, or passage.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:16 am
Title: Re: "Rise and Fall" How to practice it?
Content:
This is accurate and accords with the canonical sources.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:29 pm
Title: Re: "Rise and Fall" How to practice it?
Content:
Yes, the suttanta usage of singleness of mind and jhāna has a wider application and is more inclusive than samatha jhāna.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:21 pm
Title: Re: Goenka: a bodhisatta?
Content:
Indeed.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:44 am
Title: Re: Help with Theravada Research: Lojong?
Content:
Lojong is a specific set of texts and practices within Tibetan Buddhism, based on teachings by Atiśa and one of his teachers, Dharmarakṣita. These were then further developed by Kadampa Tibetan teachers such as Chekawa Yeshe Dorje, and others.

Lojong

Mind Training: The Great Collection (Library of Tibetan Classics)

Compassion meditation (karuṇā bhāvanā) would be an even more comparable practice to tonglen than loving-kindness meditation (mettā bhāvanā), but there are probably less Theravāda practitioners who regularly practice karuṇā bhāvanā than practice mettā bhāvanā.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:38 pm
Title: Re: Help with Theravada Research: Lojong?
Content:
Maybe something like: "How familiar are you with loving-kindness meditation (mettā bhāvanā)?"

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:38 am
Title: Re: The Majjhima Nikaya: Why?
Content:
I agree with the consensus opinion that the Majjhimanikāya is a good place to start. I'd add that this is so because the MN contains a number of suttas which illustrate aspects of the gradual training. I would also recommend acquiring a good translation of the Dhammapada ASAP, as this is a collection of fairly straightforward verses to live by. And I've always found the Theragāthā &amp; Therīgāthā deeply inspirational.

Dhammapada: The Dhammapada trans. by Gil Fronsdal.
Theragāthā: Poems of Early Buddhist Monks trans. by K.R. Norman.
Therīgāthā: Poems of Early Buddhist Nuns trans. by C.A.F. Rhys Davids &amp; by K.R. Norman.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:11 am
Title: Re: The Majjhima Nikaya: Why?
Content:
Probably. I think the first person to put forward this thesis was the Chinese scholar monk Yìnshùn Dǎoshī. If I remember correctly, he wasn't proposing that the entire SN was earlier than the DN, MN, &amp; AN, rather that the first parts of the SN are earlier than any of the final collections.

However, this is an issue that is probably beyond the scope of text-critical analysis. The claim that some sutta materials are relatively late, such as some of the DN, is easier to support. 

But the internal doctrinal consistency of all four main Nikāyas is remarkable. With this recognition, splitting hairs over what is the earliest strata of sutta is largely a waste of time. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:18 am
Title: Re: Sati and the mind-made body
Content:
Yes, of course. Mindfulness and full awareness are essential. Mindfulness is the awakening factor that is present at every stage of the noble path.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:47 pm
Title: Re: Sati and the mind-made body
Content:
Indeed. Well said.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:38 pm
Title: Re: Sati and the mind-made body
Content:
Just to clarify: The endnotes in Bhante G.'s PDF are not numbered correctly. The footnotes should be numbered as follows:
23 MN. # 77, Mahāsakuludāyi Sutta, 17-18; MLDB by BÑ &amp; BB 643
24 Parimukhaṃ satiṃ upaṭṭhapetvā

Thus, "perfection of direct knowledge" or "abide aiming perfect knowledge for emancipation" is not a translation of parimukhaṃ satiṃ upaṭṭhapetvā. Footnote 24 Parimukhaṃ satiṃ upaṭṭhapetvā refers to page 18 of the text:
Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta gives us a very important word to remember. It talks of “Estabishing Mindfulness in the present”24.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:01 am
Title: Re: Avijjāpaccayā sankhārā - video on dependent origination
Content:
Good stuff Bhante.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:55 pm
Title: Re: The Great Jhana Debate
Content:
Agreed. A workable cartography of meditative states should be inclusive enough to cover the canonical and commentarial presentations.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:40 pm
Title: Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
Content:
Indeed.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:13 am
Title: Re: The Great Jhana Debate
Content:
A hindrance is either present or absent. With the attainment of access samādhi the hindrances are abandoned for that duration. I'm pretty sure that the vipassanā teachers say the same about momentary samādhi, but it would seem that with momentary samādhi there is more opportunity for hindrances to manifest.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:13 am
Title: Re: The Great Jhana Debate
Content:
Certainly. The above passage is also repeated throughout the Paṭisambhidāmagga Ānāpānassatikathā. 

As you probably know, the most important factors for productive progress in meditation are the maintenance of appropriate ethical conduct, being committed to renunciation and a life of voluntary simplicity, engaging in either solitary or group retreats on a fairly regular basis, and being dedicated to sustaining a daily practice schedule. If these conditions are in place (and it can take time to develop these optimal conditions), then whatever method of instruction one relies on, and whatever primary meditation object one engages in, there will be significant progress.

This whole "samatha vs. vipassanā" debate where some parties are intent upon either tacitly criticizing or overtly attacking the meditation instructions of the Mahāsi Sayādaw tradition and the U Ba Khin tradition as not being the sammāsamādhi of the early teachings, is completely without merit. In both of these traditions the meditation instructions are conjoined samatha &amp; vipassanā methods. Following these instructions can certainly lead to the attainment of the four jhānas as these are described in the canon.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:55 pm
Title: Re: The Great Jhana Debate
Content:
In addition to what was quoted here, there is AN 4.41 Samādhibhāvanā Sutta, which instructs us on how to develop meditative composure which leads to mindfulness and full awareness:
And what, monks, is the development of meditative composure that, when developed and cultivated, leads to mindfulness and full awareness? Here, monks, feelings are known to a monk as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear. Recognitions are known to him as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear. Thoughts are known to him as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear. This, monks, is the development of meditative composure that, when developed and cultivated, leads to mindfulness and full awareness.

Note how the phrase "known to him as they arise, known as they are present, known as they disappear" also occurs in MN 111 Anupada Sutta which describes the clear seeing of phenomena one by one as they occur (anupadadhammavipassanā):
Now Sāriputta’s clear seeing of phenomena one by one as they occurred was this:

Whatever phenomena there are in the first jhāna: directed thought, evaluation, joy, pleasure, singleness of mind, contact, feeling, recognition, intention, mind, desire, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and attention; he analyzed these phenomena one by one as they occurred. Known to him they arose, known they were present, known they disappeared.

Also, the jhāna factors of the four jhānas are embedded within the seven factors of awakening. The seven factors of awakening are one of the most commonly found developmental models in the Pāli dhamma. SN 46.71 Anicca Sutta informs us that sustained, dedicated practice of the recognition of impermanence will create the optimal conditions for the arising of all seven factors of awakening. SN 46.71 Anicca Sutta (abridged):
Here monks, a monk develops the awakening factor of mindfulness accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of dhamma-investigation accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of energy accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of joy accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of tranquility accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of meditative composure accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of equanimity accompanied by the recognition of impermanence, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go.

It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it is of great fruit and benefit. It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that one of two fruits is to be expected: either final gnosis in this very life or, if there is a residue of clinging, the state of nonreturning. It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to great good. It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to great security from bondage. It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to a great sense of urgency. It is in this way that the recognition of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to dwelling in great comfort.

The same is then said in SN 46.72 for the recognition of unsatisfactoriness in what is impermanent, and in SN 46.73 for the recognition of selflessness in what is unsatisfactory. All of these passages offer ample canonical support for Sayādaw U Pandita's teaching of vipassanā jhāna occurring with the jhāna factors of each of the four jhānas, and therefore fulfilling the criteria of the standard jhāna formula.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:07 pm
Title: Re: The Great Jhana Debate
Content:
Indeed. The purpose of developing jhāna is to refine sati and sampajāna. This is clearly evident from the Peṭakopadesa's analysis and enumeration of the jhāna factors of each of the four jhānas, which accords well with the suttas:



All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:31 pm
Title: Re: The Great Jhana Debate
Content:
And the Theravāda, Sarvāstivāda, and Sautrāntika Ācariyas explicitly state that you don't. I see no good reason whatsoever to dismiss what they have to say on the subject.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:27 pm
Title: Re: The Great Jhana Debate
Content:
Anyone who denies the efficacy of classical vipassanābhāvanā without rūpāvacarajjhāna and modern Burmese vipassanā jhāna is asserting that they -- and the select few that agree with them -- are right, and anyone who doesn't agree with them is necessarily wrong. This not only represents a dismissive, extreme agenda, the entire premise is nonsensical on the face of it.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:45 pm
Title: Re: The Great Jhana Debate
Content:
It would be good to drop the condescending attitude and acknowledge that other members may have just as much or more experience in these matters than you do.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:09 pm
Title: Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries
Content:
I only ever read what he has to say on the subject briefly, but I would agree with Mike's assessment.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:10 am
Title: Re: The Great Jhana Debate
Content:
"Jhāna" as it occurs in the suttas can refer to either (i) jhāna which scrutinizes an object-support (ārammaṇūpanijjhāna) or (ii) jhāna which scrutinizes characteristics (lakkhaṇūpanijjhāna). The former is also called samatha jhāna and the latter is also called vipassanā jhāna. Mahāsi Sayādaw, The Wheel of Dhamma: 
Jhāna means closely observing an object with fixed attention. Concentrated attention given to a selected object of meditation, such as breathing for tranquility concentration, gives rise to samatha jhāna, whereas noting the characteristic nature of mind and body and contemplating on their impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and insubstantiality brings about vipassanā jhāna.

Jhāna which scrutinizes characteristics (lakkhaṇūpanijjhāna) occurs during any moment of the development of vipassanā (vipassanābhāvanā), as well as during any path or fruition attainment. As Sayādaw U Pandita explains in In This Very Life: The Vipassanā Jhānas, vipassanā jhāna can occur with the jhāna factors of each of the four jhānas, and therefore fulfill the criteria of the standard jhāna formula.

But even with regard to jhāna which scrutinizes an object-support (ārammaṇūpanijjhāna), attending to a mental representation (nimitta) in jhāna doesn't require that all the five senses are totally shut down. There is a difference between attending to a mental representation via mental consciousness, and the formless attainments wherein the mind is totally isolated from the five sense faculties. 

In commentarial terms, attending exclusively to a cognitive representation already occurs at the stage of access samādhi. Thus, the engagement is exclusively that of the recognition of the counterpart representation via mental consciousness. The difference between access samādhi and and the first jhāna is the degree of stability of the jhāna factors. The difference between the first jhāna and the formless attainments is indicated in both the Vimuttimagga and the Visuddhimagga when they discuss the formless attainments and mention Aḷāra Kālāma not seeing or hearing the five-hundred carts passing by when abiding in a formless attainment.

Sensual pleasures (kāmā) are either objects or defilements which arise in dependence upon those objects. As Nettippakaraṇa 4.22 states:
The five strands of sensual pleasure are the proximate cause (padaṭṭhāna) of passion for sensual pleasure. The five faculties with form are the proximate cause of passion for form. The sixth sense sphere is the proximate cause of passion for existence.

Thus, if one is not attending to the five strands of sensual pleasure (kāmaguṇā) there is no proximate cause for the occurrence of passion for sensual pleasure (kāmarāga) with regard to any of those five strands of sensual pleasure. The five faculties (eye-, ear, nose-, tongue-, and body-) don't serve as a proximate cause for the occurrence of sensual pleasure. Moreover, the five faculties (pañcindriyāni) are not shut off in jhāna, as they are the proximate cause for attachment to rūpāvacara phenomena.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:02 pm
Title: Re: "disenchantment" or "revulsion"?
Content:
Disenchantment arises from clearly seeing the futility of worldly concerns and the unreliability of all fabricated phenomena. This leads to dispassion. Thus, dispassion is even more fruitional than disenchantment. Dhammapada 273:
The best of dhammas is dispassion.

The experience of dispassion is visceral, deep, and profound. Discernment at this stage of the path is fully present and naked. There is a directness and clarity of understanding which engenders confidence. We become confident that our practice won't be easily shaken by any unexpected bumps on the road. We are able to handle situations which previously created emotional upheavals and moments of uncertainty or hesitation. And when difficult situations do arise we know that we have the necessary insight and skills to work with whatever presents itself.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:33 am
Title: Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries
Content:
Indeed.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:49 am
Title: Re: "disenchantment" or "revulsion"?
Content:
The available translations are fine. The point which I would emphasize is that there has to be balance in our practice. The integral developmental path presented in the suttas includes developing both the cognitive and affective aspects of ourselves in order to confront and begin to skillfully work with the deep seated habitual tendencies which manifest as conflicted emotions. Through the development of clear seeing (vipassanābhāvanā) we begin to work on our self-limiting cognitive barriers. And through the development of calm (samathabhāvanā) we begin to confront and work on our emotional hindrances. These conflicting emotional reactions include aversion and aggression just as much as passion and lust.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:32 am
Title: Re: "disenchantment" or "revulsion"?
Content:
Yes, it's important to understand that nibbidā is a mature stage of practice. The long term developmental sequence is given in SN 12.23 Upanisa Sutta (and elsewhere):
dissatisfaction (dukkha) → faith (saddhā) → gladness (pāmojja) → joy (pīti) → tranquility (passaddhi) → pleasure (sukha) → meditative composure (samādhi) → gnosis &amp; vision of things as they are (yathābhūtañāṇadassana) → disenchantment (nibbidā) → dispassion (virāga) → liberation (vimutti) → gnosis of elimination (khayeñāṇa)

Faith &amp; confidence in the dhamma and a genuine, deeply felt motivation to actually practice arises out of the recognition of dukkha -- that things aren't right with the world. This is a beginning. By the time a noble disciple reaches the point of knowing and seeing things as they really are there has already been considerable integration of skillful mental qualities such as joy, tranquility, meditative composure, and equanimity. These are necessary factors of awakening:
mindfulness (sati) → dhamma-investigation (dhammavicaya) → energy (viriya) → joy (pīti) → tranquility (passaddhi) → meditative composure (samādhi) → equanimity (upekkhā)


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:22 pm
Title: Re: "disenchantment" or "revulsion"?
Content:
Elsewhere he translates nibbidā as "disenchantment." In fact, he's probably the one who first used "disenchantment" as a translation of the term. "Estrangement" is fine too, although the analysis he offers for how he came to this choice is a bit convoluted. Horner has translated the term as "turns away from." This works too. As does "revulsion." The only qualm I would have with "revulsion" is that it has somewhat too narrow of a meaning. Olendzki comments on nibbidā as follows:
There is a story in the texts that usefully illustrates the meaning of this important term. A dog stumbles across a bone that has been exposed to the elements for many months and has been therefore bleached of any residual flesh or marrow. The dog gnaws on it for some time before he finally determines that he is “not finding” any satisfaction in the bone, and he thus turns away from it in disgust. It is not that the bone is intrinsically disgusting; it is rather the case that the dog’s raging desire for meat just will not be satisfied by the bone. He is enchanted by the prospect of gratification as he scrapes away furiously at the bone, but when he finally wakes up to the truth that the bone is empty of anything that will offer him satisfaction, he becomes disenchanted and spits it out in disgust.

At any rate, it's always helpful to have access to the work of multiple translators. No single translation is going to convey the full meaning of every passage and every term in every context.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:09 pm
Title: Re: Sue Hamilton -- anyone read her work?
Content:
Yeah, it's the published version of her doctoral dissertation. When I was looking for a link to the book to add to my previous reply I noticed that it's out of print according to Amazon. Hopefully you can find a copy somewhere. At any rate, it's probably the best book length survey of the sutta strata passages on the aggregates. In this regard it's better than Mathieu Boisvert's dissertation on the aggregates, which relies quite heavily on commentarial interpretation (but still worth reading).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:33 pm
Title: Re: Sue Hamilton -- anyone read her work?
Content:
I read about half of it and put it on the shelf. I found it to be rather irrelevant and meandering. Her first book, Identity and Experience: The Constitution of the Human Being According to Early Buddhism is better. I would recommend it. It offers a pretty good survey of all the relevant sutta passages relating to the aggregates. However, her analysis is still a bit lacking in a few places. The problem is that she's not a practitioner, and it shows in both books. She's standing as a Western academic completely outside of the living tradition.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:59 am
Title: Re: "disenchantment" or "revulsion"?
Content:
Of course. That's unbalanced dhamma-lite. And the other extreme -- unbalanced asceticism -- can lead to repression, bitterness, misogynistic attitudes, and so on. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:56 am
Title: Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
Content:
LOL... If someone were waiting for my $200 they'd be waiting for a very long time. In the meantime, they will have a place reserved on THE LIST.


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:21 am
Title: Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?
Content:
Toss 'em in the pond and see if they float, or see if they weigh the same as a duck.... Oh sorry, that's to find out if they're a witch.

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Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:50 am
Title: Re: "disenchantment" or "revulsion"?
Content:
Indeed.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:18 pm
Title: Re: Dependent Origination Going In The Opposite Direction
Content:
The Upanisa Sutta has already been quoted in full in this thread by Bodom, and referenced by myself.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:24 pm
Title: Re: "disenchantment" or "revulsion"?
Content:
The Pāḷi term nibbidā is related to nibbindati, which is derived from the negative prefix nis-, meaning “not,” and the verb root vindati, meaning “to find.” And so nibbindati means “without finding,” and carries the connotations of “becoming weary of” and “turning away from.” When we clearly see each and every experience as impermanent, unsatisfactory, and empty, we no longer find satisfaction in fabricated things. We grow weary of trying to propagate and seek delight in worldly comforts and worldly concerns. This sense of weariness is expressed in Dhammapada 277-279:
‘All fabrications are impermanent.’
Seeing this with discernment
One grows weary of unsatisfactoriness.
This is the path to purity.

‘All fabrications are unsatisfactory.’
Seeing this with discernment
One grows weary of unsatisfactoriness.
This is the path to purity.

‘All phenomena are not-self.’
Seeing this with discernment
One grows weary of unsatisfactoriness.
This is the path to purity.

This weariness with what is unsatisfactory is disenchantment, which arises due to knowing and seeing things as they are. We begin to feel the hollowness of engaging in affairs which aren’t directly related to the development of the path.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:55 am
Title: Re: "disenchantment" or "revulsion"?
Content:
I prefer "disenchantment," for the reasons that Retro gave. See also Buddhadharma: The Practitioners Quarterly Dharma Dictionary: Nibbida by Andrew Olendzki.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:06 am
Title: Re: Dependent Origination Going In The Opposite Direction
Content:
I don't recall the context in which this was mentioned in Broken Buddha but the conditioned arising of the path is not a rarely taught model in the canon, where the path is entirely a developmental model. This is most fully presented in a number of suttas in the Dīghanikāya and Majjhimanikāya. It's also found in the Saṃyuttanikāya, the Aṅguttaranikāya, the Vinayapiṭaka, the Dhammasaṅgaṇī, the Vibhaṅga, and the Paṭisambhidāmagga.

Here is how the path is developed according to SN 12.23 Upanisa Sutta: 
dissatisfaction (dukkha) → faith (saddhā) → gladness (pāmojja) → joy (pīti) → tranquility (passaddhi) → pleasure (sukha) → meditative composure (samādhi) → gnosis &amp; vision of things as they are (yathābhūtañāṇadassana) → disenchantment (nibbidā) → dispassion (virāga) → liberation (vimutti) → gnosis of elimination (khayeñāṇa)

This developmental model is also given in AN 11.1 Kimatthiya Sutta, AN 11.2 Cetanākaraṇīya Sutta, and in the Vinayapiṭaka, such as Vin. 5.366. It's also embedded within the standard seven factors of awakening: 
mindfulness (sati) → dhamma-investigation (dhammavicaya) → energy (viriya) → joy (pīti) → tranquility (passaddhi) → meditative composure (samādhi) → equanimity (upekkhā)

And the seven factors of awakening are embedded within the developmental model of the four jhānas. The path cannot be developed without committed and sustained cultivation of all these conditioned factors of awakening.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:52 am
Title: Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality
Content:
"Everything exists" is an extreme. As far as I'm concerned, whatever there may be independent of the 89 &amp; 121 types of cognition isn't classifiable as dhammas.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:52 am
Title: Re: Formal Refuge
Content:
Yes. Also learned to recite the Sanskrit version of refuge and the five &amp; eight precepts when training at a non-Theravāda monastery for a couple of years (as a resident layperson).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:55 am
Title: Happy Birthday Modus.Ponens!!!
Content:
Happy birthday Modus.Ponens! 



All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:24 am
Title: Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality
Content:
This is my inclination as well.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:29 am
Title: Re: Theravdan vs Mahayana view of objective reality
Content:
Karunadasa explicitly states that he considers the commentarial interpretation of abhidhamma to be realist. I was merely paraphrasing what he said himself:
What emerges from this Abhidhammic doctrine of dhammas is a critical realism, one which (unlike idealism) recognizes the distinctness of the world from the experiencing subject yet also distinguishes between those types of entities that truly exist independently of the cognitive act and those that owe their being to the act of cognition itself.

But this interpretation isn't the only game in town, and it certainly doesn't accurately characterize the canonical Abhidhamma.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:53 pm
Title: Re: Path Of Thoughts
Content:



Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:21 am
Title: Re: How Insistent Are You in Observing Your Fifth Precept?
Content:
A. Not even a sip of alcohol, but allow it to be used as supplementary ingredient in cooking

Not that I very often have the opportunity to eat the type of cuisine which would include alcohol as an ingredient, but I wouldn't be worried if I were offered a meal which did.

Also, no marijuana or other narcotic drugs.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:35 pm
Title: Re: Tha jhana debate
Content:
Yes. Specifically, for one engaged in ānāpānassatisamādhi the object-support is the mental representation (nimitta) of the breath cognized via mental consciousness.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:32 pm
Title: Re: Tha jhana debate
Content:
Mental consciousness (manoviññāṇa) can take the body sensory sphere as an object. Moreover, SN 47.6 Sakuṇagghi Sutta explicitly differentiates between the five strands of sensual pleasure (kāmagunā) and the four applications of mindfulness (satipaṭṭhānā), and so neither the body nor the breath are strands of sensual pleasure. Thus, all of this is really a moot point. 

But if one really wants to split hairs, in commentarial terms the form portion of the "whole body" (sabbakāya) experienced in jhāna is mind-produced form which pervades the physical body. The Dīghanikāyaṭīkā:
Mind-produced form (cittajarūpa) suffuses every area where there is kamma-produced form (kammajarūpa).

The Vimuttimagga:
Just as the bath-powder when inside and outside saturated with moisture, adheres and does not scatter, so the body of the meditator in the first jhāna is permeated with joy and pleasure from top to bottom, from the skullcap to the feet and from the feet to the skullcap, skin and hair, inside and outside. And he dwells without falling back. Thus he dwells like a Brahma god.

[Q.] Joy (pīti) and pleasure (sukha) are said to be formless phenomena (arūpa-dhamma). How then can they stay permeating the body?

[A.] Name (nāma) depends on form (rūpa). Form depends on name. Therefore, if name has joy, form also has joy. If name has pleasure, form also has pleasure.

Again, form born from joy causes tranquility of body, and when the entire body is tranquillized there is pleasure due to the tranquility of form. Therefore there is no contradiction.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:28 am
Title: Re: Tha jhana debate
Content:
Of course. Abandoning the hindrances requires the maintenance of ethical conduct and the development of sense restraint and other skillful qualities.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:07 am
Title: Re: Tha jhana debate
Content:
Yes, you are quite correct. AN 4.12 informs us that singleness of mind can be maintained and the five hindrances suppressed while walking, standing, sitting, or reclining.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:55 am
Title: Re: Tha jhana debate
Content:
Yes, this is accurate.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:58 am
Title: Re: Tha jhana debate
Content:
It wasn't meant to be an argument. I've already pretty much said all that I ever intended to say on this subject as well as other subjects (1 year and 812 posts on DW should be more than enough!). The path remains open. I have little interest in re-posting any of it again in detail. (There are at least 3 PhD dissertations currently being written by scholar-monastics which support everything I've said on the textual analysis of jhāna.)

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:14 pm
Title: Re: Tha jhana debate
Content:
This is a good definition of wrong samādhi.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri May 20, 2011 3:44 am
Title: Re: Download DN, MN and SN for free!
Content:
Indeed. It's right livelihood. And not only does this make for lowering the cost of publications, it also makes for much higher quality books. Editing and so on, are all specialized skills. I sometimes have to order texts from Indian publishers, and the quality of the materials as well as the editing is often lacking. We should rejoice in the high quality books being produced by publishers such as Wisdom Publications. Now where's Ven. Bodhi's Aṅguttaranikāya translation???

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri May 20, 2011 3:30 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Yes. Many are aware of this. I know of at least two major Tibetan lineages running large scale international teaching and training programs which have moved away from using the term hīnayāna, opting for Śrāvakayāna instead, or the English terms "Individual Vehicle" or "Foundational Vehicle." There are also Zen teachers who are sensitive to this issue and have made similar adjustments. This doesn't mean that there isn't still more to be done, but it's a start. And with websites like ATI and DW anyone who's interested and can read English can begin to learn what Theravāda is about. This is all to the good.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri May 20, 2011 1:14 am
Title: Re: Download DN, MN and SN for free!
Content:
Have you ever published a site on a free webhost? They're notorious for having downtime. ATI is well worth the cost, and well worth supporting with $$$.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri May 20, 2011 1:08 am
Title: Re: Download DN, MN and SN for free!
Content:
It isn't his website. It was set up and run by John Bullitt. And it too, costs $$$ to run. Internet publishing is a revolution in sharing information and resources. But paper texts are still invaluable (at least for aging people like me). And without large publishers publishing books at reasonable prices -- which they can do because of their large sales market -- we'd end up having to pay much more for all published books of translated materials published by small publishers such as PTS. This higher cost per text would result in less translations available in public libraries and universities, and so on.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri May 20, 2011 12:55 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
This is simply not true Tilt. It may be the case for people who don't care about the Theravāda or the other early schools, but there's not much that can be done about that. Whoever isn't willing to sit down at the table and engage in constructive dialogue is quite free to carry on oblivious to the realities of Pāli Buddhism. It's their loss.

I'm just one person. All that I can do is share information from reliable sources so as to promote mutual understanding and dispel mistaken assumptions. This is the result of years of learning on each side of the fence; appreciating both the similarities and respecting the differences. I'm not interested in some sort of ahistorical homogenous gunk which fails to fully represent and articulate the beauty and wisdom of the Pāli dhamma. But I have no more time for "us-versus-them" excuses. It's petty and unnecessary, and time is better spent displaying the three jewels in the light that they deserve.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri May 20, 2011 12:13 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Okay, this is what happened: The Mahāyāna was accepted by increasingly more and more people, including monks and nuns from every ordination lineage. Eventually the bodhisattva ideal was even absorbed into the conservative Mahāvihāra Theravāda.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu May 19, 2011 7:37 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
The first part of this sentence makes the latter conclusion disingenuous.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu May 19, 2011 11:09 am
Title: Re: Download DN, MN and SN for free!
Content:
Indeed.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu May 19, 2011 9:41 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
There are a number of early Mahāyāna sūtras which don't use such language at all. And there are other Mahāyāna sūtras which are highly critical of both śrāvakas and bodhisattvas who are considered to be improperly engaged in worldly dharmas. And there were eventually many monastics -- including Theravāda and Sarvāstivāda -- who accepted the Mahāyāna sūtras. In History of Buddhism in Ceylon, Walpola Rahula describes the Abhayagiri monastics as follows:
They were liberal in their views, and always welcomed new ideas from abroad and tried to be progressive. They studied both Theravāda and Mahāyāna and widely diffused the Tripitika. The Abhayagiri monks, therefore, appeared in the eyes of the Mahāvihara to be unorthodox and heretic.

As already mentioned, if we look at the historical records we see that, although there were times of discord between the Theravāda and Mahāyāna, notably early on in Sri Lanka, there were also many times throughout history where the two co-existed peacefully. And even beyond simply co-existing, there were many fully ordained Theravāda monastics who accepted the Pāli Tipiṭaka and who also accepted the Mahāyāna teachings.

The Chinese monk Xuanzang (7th century CE) met Mahāyāna Sthaviras (Pāli: Theras) at Bodhgayā (1000 monks in one monastery), at Kaliṅa (500 monks in 10 monasteries), at Bhārukaccha (300 monks in 10 monasteries), and at Surāṣtra (about 3000 monks in 50 monasteries). Those at Bodhgayā were living in a monastery built by an early king of Sri Lanka. He also described the Abhayagirivihāra of Sri Lanka as being a Mahāyāna Sthavira monastery.

And so there is no impenetrable barrier; nor any line in the sand. The historical development of Buddhist ideas is quite dynamic, much moreso than is often commonly acknowledged.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed May 18, 2011 3:49 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Indeed.
Just as our search for an original set of Buddha’s definitive words failed, and all we were left with were provisional versions, in the same way a search for the Buddha’s definitive meaning fails too. What we have are traditions of interpretation. But that’s not the kind of authority we imagine when we claim sectarian primacy. Sectarian authority claims assume solid essentialist ground. That type of ground is just not there.

All teachings are provisional expedients. This is the beauty of the Buddhadhamma.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed May 18, 2011 2:03 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
No worries Dan. I think that in the context of asking "Why such a difference?" between Theravāda and Mahāyāna it's informative to explore a few relevant issues, such as the historical development of Mahāyāna ideas, the actual contents of early Mahāyāna texts, and the early encounters between the monastic establishments and these ideas. 

A related issue, possibly tacitly implied in the above question, is the notion that the Theravāda and Mahāyāna are somehow so different that there is no possibility of appreciating both in any meaningful, practical way. And that the idea of actually engaging in the practice of both is out of the question. These sorts of notions have also been propagated by a number of people in modern Theravāda discourse and published texts. 

But if we look at the historical records we see that, although there were times of discord between the Theravāda and Mahāyāna, notably early on in Sri Lanka, there were also many times throughout history where the two co-existed peacefully. And even beyond simply co-existing, there were many fully ordained Theravāda monastics who accepted the Pāli Tipiṭaka and who also accepted the Mahāyāna teachings.

For example, the Chinese monk Xuanzang (7th century CE) met Mahāyāna Sthaviras at Bodhgayā (1000 monks in one monastery), at Kaliṅa (500 monks in 10 monasteris), at Bhārukaccha (300 monks in 10 monasteries), and at Surāṣtra (about 3000 monks in 50 monasteries). Those at Bodhgayā were living in a monastery built by an early king of Sri Lanka. He also described the Abhayagirivihāra of Sri Lanka as being a Mahāyāna Sthavira monastery.

And so the historical development of Buddhist ideas is quite dynamic, much moreso than is often commonly acknowledged. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed May 18, 2011 12:20 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
There's no need to argue. This is merely a discussion of the historical development of Buddhist ideas and related incidents. If you're not interested in Buddhist history then don't read the discussion. Quite simple really.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed May 18, 2011 10:40 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Institutional rivalries over political patronage and power occurred throughout India. These two particular incidents specifically concerned doctrine -- two early encounters between the establishment and the emerging Mahāyāna ideas.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed May 18, 2011 9:51 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
From Buddhism in Sri Lanka:
About two centuries after the formation of the Dhammaruci sect at the Abhayagiri-vihāra, in the days of King Vohārika Tissa (214–36 CE), the monks of the Abhayagiri-vihāra adopted the Vaitulyavāda. Thereupon the monks of the Mahāvihāra, having compared it with their own texts, rejected the Vaitulya doctrines as being opposed to traditional doctrine. The king, who had them examined by a learned minister named Kapila, burnt them and suppressed the Vaitulyavādins.

Despite the suppression by Vohārika Tissa, the Vaitulyavādins began to assert themselves again and a few years later, in the time of King Gothābhaya (Meghavaṇṇa Abhaya, 253–266 CE), the Dhammaruci monks of Abhayagiri again accepted Vaitulyavāda. When this happened, about three hundred monks left the Abhayagiri-vihāra to reside at the Dakkhinavihāra, founding a new sect known as Sāgaliya. The king, having assembled the bhikkhus of the five great monasteries of the Theriya Nikāya (Mahāvihāra Nikāya), had the Vaitulya books examined, ordered the books to be destroyed, and expelled the Vaitulya monks. Sixty of them left for the Chola country in South India.

Walpola Rahula, David Kalupahana, and others have indicated that Vaitulyavāda is a reference to Mahāyāna sūtras, based on a survey of various sources, including the writings of Buddhaghosa and so on. This time period (214-266 CE) corresponds with the first major period of the formation and dissemination of Mahāyāna sūtras and the writings of Nāgārjuna. Thus, we have here a rare historical record of an early encounter between the mainstream conservative establishment and formative Mahāyāna ideas. The Abhayagirivihāra accepted these ideas, while the Mahāvihāra denounced them as well as the monks who accepted them, and made sure that the texts were destroyed and the monks expelled. This same scene could have very easily played out anywhere on the Indian mainland.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed May 18, 2011 5:35 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
There were two councils convened (the first sometime between 214-36 CE and the second between 253-66 CE) after it came to the attention of the Mahāvihāra monks that the Abhayagirivihāra had accepted and were using Vaitulyavāda texts (a derogatory term used by the Mahāvihāra with regard to all Mahāyāna ideas). Both times the councils, which were comprised of Mahāvihāra monks, concluded that the texts were heretical and they were burned and the Vaitulyavāda monks denounced. After the second council a large number of monks were expelled, and 60 of them gathered in southern India. It is only after their later return to Sri Lanka that there is any mention of reprisals carried out by the so-called heretics. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue May 17, 2011 10:24 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
It's a summary of a full story. Anyone can read up on it in more detail if they wish. And it demonstrates that mainstream conservatives were not sitting around placidly tolerating Mahāyāna ideas. They were actively denouncing them and they made sure that in the end no trace of Abhayagirivihāra sūtras, abhidharma texts or abhidharma commentaries survived for posterity. This is the complete opposite of the Chinese and Tibetans who did their best to preserve all sorts of diverse doctrinal teachings. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue May 17, 2011 9:16 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
You can start by reading up on some of the ugliness that occurred between the Mahāvihāra, the Abhayagirivihāra, and the Jetavanavihāra in Sri Lanka, including book burnings, the razing of monastery buildings, forced banishment of monks from the island, and murders. Some of this was over accusations regarding conduct, but much of it was over the Abhayagirivihāra's liberal attitude towards Mahāyāna ideas and acceptance of Mahāyāna sūtras and the use of Sanskrit. This is by far the most complete historical record of interactions between rival monastic groups during the formative period of Mahāyāna ideas, even if it is a one-sided version of the story. Due to the demise of Buddhism on the Indian mainland, the textual records kept by Indian vihāras which were not specifically related to canonical texts have not survived. (It was primarily the canonical vinaya, sūtra, abhidharma texts and abhidharma commentaries which were deemed most important by the early Indian missionary monks to China and which were translated and still exist.)

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue May 17, 2011 1:45 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
And FTR, I've sat and listened to it coming out of the mouths of monks from both "sides" in the real world as well.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue May 17, 2011 1:24 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Ugly is ugly, no matter the source; which is why it's far more preferable to be a practitioner with no dog in the hunt.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue May 17, 2011 10:53 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
There's no shortage of accusations from every corner -- we just don't have a full historical record of the actual words used by the Indian mainstream opponents. And the mahāyānikas are certainly not to be excused either. If you remember, it wasn't all that long ago that a few mahāyānikas got all worked up when I pointed out some of these same historical developments on the Dharma Wheel board.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue May 17, 2011 10:28 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Doubtful. One only has to look at the many posts denigrating Mahāyāna values and practices here on DW to see this counter-criticism in action.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue May 17, 2011 10:19 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Given that the Theravāda bhikkhuni lineage did die out, and that the bhikkhu lineage came mighty close to dying out on more than one occasion, it certainly didn't hurt to have every possible source of political patronage and aspiration working to try to sustain it.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue May 17, 2011 10:08 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
It's quite likely that this development was a two way street. The early bodhisattva aspirants were clearly critical of the sedentary monks who they considered to be sāmaṇas in name only, and thus not true bhikkhus. No doubt this criticism resulted in counter-criticisms from the mainstream monastic institutions, including disparaging the early bodhisattva vehicle texts in no uncertain terms. Then the back and forth really gets going, and with the bodhisattva aspirants still being small in number and without significant patronage, their perceived position of vulnerability led to even more vehement criticisms and rallying cries, eventually resulting in wholesale criticism of the mainstream schools. Unfortunate but inevitable. And now we are left with the full record of bodhisattvayāna criticisms of the mainstream schools, as inserted into the bodhisattvayāna sūtras, but we don't have a full record of the counter-criticisms leveled by their mainstream opponents. I suspect that these counter-attacks were every bit as biting as anything written in the bodhisattvayāna sūtras.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue May 17, 2011 9:10 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
It seems that the bodhisattva vehicle was initially a series of movements which arose in opposition to sedentary, institutionalized Buddhism with all of it's worldly trappings and potential for complacency and personal misconduct. Things that, in the eyes of these early bodhisattva aspirants, the historical Buddha would have also opposed.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue May 17, 2011 8:30 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Human beings in general like a good story, and the bodhisattva ideal makes for a good story within both universal and personal contexts. It's also quite possible that without the appearance of self-identified bodhisattva political rulers existing in different places at different times, all forms of Buddhism, including the Theravāda, might have disappeared from this planet as living traditions a long time ago. Buddhism would now be nothing more than an academic curiosity and collections of museum pieces. This board wouldn't exist and this conversation wouldn't happen.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue May 17, 2011 4:29 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Just to add a bit of perspective on "buddha nature." From among the hundreds of Indian Mahāyāna sūtras there are less than ten which deal with the tathāgatagarbha notion and related ideas. And there was only ever one Indian commentary written on the subject, which was translated into Chinese in approx. the 5th century CE (there are two other Chinese commentaries on this subject which claim to have been written in India by Indians, but for a number of reasons, likely weren't). Anyway, after being translated into Chinese, traditional histories say that this Indian commentary disappeared from the Indian Mahāyāna scene for nearly half a millennium until it was rediscovered by Maitrīpāda in the 11th century. In the interval, the vast majority of significant Indian Mahāyāna authors say nothing on the subject until at least the 8th century, and even after that little is said outside of Vajrayāna contexts. Thus, there's every indication that the tathāgatagarbha theory wasn't a pressing concern for most of the major Indian Mahāyāna commentators.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon May 16, 2011 6:25 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
The Dharma is fully present and accounted for in the Mahāyāna sūtras and commentaries. A few more examples may help elucidate this. The Kāśyapaparivarta Sūtra (from the Mahāratnakūṭa):
The four applications of mindfulness cure clinging to body, feelings, mind, and phenomena. One who practices the dharma and contemplates the body as it really is will not be trapped by the view of a real self. One who contemplates feelings as they really are will not be trapped by the view of a real self. One who contemplates the mind as it really is will not be trapped by the view of a real self. One who contemplates phenomena as they really are will not be trapped by the view of a real self. These four applications of mindfulness, therefore, cause one to abhor the body, feelings, mind, and all phenomena, and thereby open the door to nirvāṇa.

The Pañcaviṃśatisāhasrikā Prajñāpāramitā Sūtra:
Furthermore, Subhūti, the bodhisattva, mahāsattva, who is engaged in the practice of perfection of wisdom, examines this very body as it truly is, from the soles of the feet up and the tips of the hair down, bounded [on the outside] by nails, body hair, and skin, and filled [on the inside] with many kinds of impurities. He observes this body as it truly is and that in it there are the following: (1) hair of the head, (2) hair of the body, (3) fingernails and toenails, (4) teeth, (5) skin, (6) skin irritations, (7) flesh, (8) tendons, (9) blood, (10) bones, (11) marrow, (12) heart, (13) kidneys, (14) liver, (15) lungs, (16) spleen, (17) large intestine, (18) small intestine, (19) mesentery, (20) stomach, (21) urine, (22) feces, (23) tears, (24) sweat, (25) fat, (26) saliva, (27) nasal mucus, (28) pus, (29) bile, (30) phlegm, (31) watery body fluid, (32) oily body fluid, (33) impurities, (34) brain matter, (35) cerebral membrane, (36) mucous discharge of the eye, and (37) ear secretions.

For example, Subhūti, if a person with seeing eyes were to open a farmer’s sack filled with different kinds of grain, such as sesame, mustard seed, lentils, mung beans, barley, wheat, and rice, he would know, “This is sesame,” “This is mustard seed,” “This is lentils,” “This is mung beans,” “This is barley,” “This is wheat,” and “This is rice.” Likewise, Subhūti, a bodhisattva, mahāsattva, examines this very body as it truly is, from the soles of the feet up and the tips of the hair down, bounded [on the outside] by nails, body hair, and skin, and filled [on the inside] with many kinds of impurities.

And from the same sūtra:
Furthermore, Subhūti, when the bodhisattva, mahāsattva, who is engaged in the practice of perfection of wisdom, has gone to a charnel ground and sees many different kinds of corpses that have been discarded in that charnel ground, abandoned in that place for dead bodies, which have been dead for one, two, three, four, or five days, which are swollen, dark blue, putrid, worm-infested, partially eaten, or dismembered, he should compare his own body with them in the following way: “This body also has the same quality. It is of the same nature, and it has not gone beyond that condition.” O Subhūti, this is how the bodhisattva, mahāsattva, who is engaged in the practice of perfection of wisdom, dwells watching the body in relation to an outer body.

And again, from the same sūtra:
Furthermore, Subhūti, the bodhisattva, mahāsattva, who is engaged in the practice of perfection of wisdom, examines this very body as it truly is, in relation to its constituent elements. [In so doing, he observes,] “In this body, there is the earth element, water element, fire element, and air element.” For example, Subhūti, consider how a skillful cow-butcher or cow-butcher’s apprentice might slaughter a cow with a sharp knife. After slaughtering it, he might then divide it into four quarters. Then, after dividing it into four quarters, while either standing or sitting, he might examine it. In just this way, the bodhisattva, mahāsattva, who is engaged in the practice of perfection of wisdom, also examines this very body as it truly is, in relation to its constituent elements.

The Rāṣṭrapālaparipṛcchā Sūtra:
Realizing that sufferings are endless, the mild-mannered abandon their evil course of conduct. You too should apply yourself always to the good course, lest afterwards you have regrets.

You for whom the Buddha is dear, as well as the noble assembly, and the qualities of moral training and ascetic discipline, apply yourself constantly in this way, relinquishing reputation, profit, fame, and renown.

It won’t be long before everything valued is lost; there is nothing permanent in this world.

The Rāṣṭrapālaparipṛcchā Sūtra also adds:
These women are beautiful and pleasing only on the surface. On account of its impurities, I have no interest in this contraption of sinews and bones. Oozing of excretions — blood, urine, and excrement — how can I delight in what are surely only suitable for a cemetery?

I would not listen to song nor would I take up instrumental music; such pleasures are like dreams, bewildering to the ignorant. The ignorant, attached to false discrimination, end up in ruin. Why should I be like a foolish person who is a slave to his defilements?

When frost appears, all of these trees and creepers will no longer be enjoyable as trees are in the forest. Impermanence destroys all beauty. Am I out of delusion to give myself up to wantonness in this unsteady life?

The mind is insatiable like the ocean. Desire is repeatedly attached to the continuation of craving. Looking at the world where people kill one another out of passion, I will be as unshakable here as Mt. Meru is by the wind.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon May 16, 2011 3:46 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Āryadeva's Catuḥśatikā:
Thinking about the impermanence and uncleanness of the body,
Understand the faults of attachment to it.
Make effort to achieve unsurpassable enlightenment
And give up pride in both “I” and “mine.”

Candrakīrti's Bodhisattvayogācāracatuḥśatakaṭīkā:
The five aggregates, beginning with form, originate in dependence upon causes and conditions. Since they have an origin, they are impermanent. Whatever is impermanent is certainly painful because impermanence injures its nature. Whatever is painful is always impure because it produces disgust. Whatever is impure is not a self because it is wrong to generate “I” and “mine” toward a thing that must be rejected, and wrong to embrace egotism and selfishness. Since an ordinary thing appears different from what it is due to such an illusion, it is only after understanding that it must be repudiated that Buddhahood will be attained.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun May 15, 2011 6:58 pm
Title: Re: suttas and the kasinas(vishudhimagga)
Content:
I think it's workable. For example, one can learn to take the entire visible sphere as the object, or any of the other sensory spheres as they arise in awareness, and contemplate the recognition of aniccā.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun May 15, 2011 6:45 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Yes.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun May 15, 2011 3:22 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
No need for "relativism." The only Theravāda teachers worth listening to are Ajahn Chah, and Ajahn Sumedho. There are a few others who are okay, but they are few and far between.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun May 15, 2011 12:51 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Here is where all opinions and all other baggage can be dropped: right here.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun May 15, 2011 12:42 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
It should be obvious by now, but in case it isn't I'll be more explicit: I couldn't care less.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun May 15, 2011 12:17 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Or we can call it "viññāṇa." MN 140 Dhātuvibhaṅga Sutta:
There remains only consciousness, pure and bright. What does one cognize with that consciousness? One cognizes pleasure. One cognizes pain. One cognizes neither-pleasure-nor-pain.

Which can lead to a "measureless mind," as explained in MN 38 Mahātaṇhāsankhaya Sutta:
On seeing a form with the eye, he is not attached to it if it is pleasing, he is not averse to it if it is displeasing. He remains with mindfulness of the body present, with a measureless mind, and he discerns as it really is the liberation of mind and liberation through discernment where those worthless, unskillful qualities cease without remainder.

On hearing a sound with the ear, he is not attached to it if it is pleasing, he is not averse to it if it is displeasing. He remains with mindfulness of the body present, with a measureless mind, and he discerns as it really is the liberation of mind and liberation through discernment where those worthless, unskillful qualities cease without remainder.

On smelling an odor with the nose, he is not attached to it if it is pleasing, he is not averse to it if it is displeasing. He remains with mindfulness of the body present, with a measureless mind, and he discerns as it really is the liberation of mind and liberation through discernment where those worthless, unskillful qualities cease without remainder.

On tasting a flavor with the tongue, he is not attached to it if it is pleasing, he is not averse to it if it is displeasing. He remains with mindfulness of the body present, with a measureless mind, and he discerns as it really is the liberation of mind and liberation through discernment where those worthless, unskillful qualities cease without remainder.

On touching a tactual object with the body, he is not attached to it if it is pleasing, he is not averse to it if it is displeasing. He remains with mindfulness of the body present, with a measureless mind, and he discerns as it really is the liberation of mind and liberation through discernment where those worthless, unskillful qualities cease without remainder.

On cognizing a phenomenon with the mind, he is not attached to it if it is pleasing, he is not averse to it if it is displeasing. He remains with mindfulness of the body present, with a measureless mind, and he discerns as it really is the liberation of mind and liberation through discernment where those worthless, unskillful qualities cease without remainder.

Having thus abandoned favoring and opposing, whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant, painful, or neither-painful-nor-pleasant, he does not delight in that feeling, welcome it, or remain attached to it. As he does not delight in that feeling, welcome it, or remain attached to it, delight in feelings ceases in him. With the cessation of delight, the cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, the cessation of existence; with the cessation of existence, the cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, aging and death, sorrow, grieving, pain, unhappiness, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this entire heap of unsatisfactoriness.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun May 15, 2011 11:52 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Sure. We can drop the adjective and simply call it "citta."


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun May 15, 2011 11:28 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Opinions don't affect this quality of knowing either, although they can obscure it. In fact, when one can rest in the knowing, all opinions fall away. Practice becomes clear and utterly simple. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun May 15, 2011 11:06 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Some people call this basic knowing "poo roo" (Thai), some people call it "lingzhi" (Chinese Chan), some people call it "thamal shepa" (Tibetan Chagchen), some people call it "rigpa" (Tibetan Dzogchen), etc.. In the Pāli suttas the Buddha called it the luminous mind, the measureless mind, and so on. In the Abhidhammapiṭaka it is simply called mind. You can call it whatever you wish, or refuse to. But the various designations don't affect this benign little quality present in every moment of awareness one bit.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun May 15, 2011 4:30 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
What part of this do you fail to understand Dave:

In the context of the Tibetan traditions, the teaching on buddha nature is pointing to this: Every moment of percipient consciousness has a very basic and quite unremarkable quality of cognitive clarity. This lucid clarity in and of itself is a naturally occurring disposition (prakṛtisthagotra) of selfless, non-referential cognition, while all afflictions and defilements are adventitious, meaning that they can be removed from this basic awareness. This awareness is likened to a clear crystal, which is utterly transparent, but when it's placed on a red cloth the crystal appears to be red, when placed on a blue cloth the crystal appears blue, when placed on a black cloth it appears black, etc.. But the crystal itself is not red nor blue nor black. Similarly, the mind has the capacity to reflect whatever presents itself to awareness, but the lucid clarity of awareness itself remains the same regardless of the contents of that awareness.

If we can calm the mind and recognize this basic quality of knowing, and then learn to sustain this basic recognition by developing dispassion towards the objects of awareness, then this naturally occurring knowing is where we can rest, without grasping externally nor withdrawing internally nor dwelling anywhere in-between. Some people call this basic knowing "poo roo" (Thai), some people call it "lingzhi" (Chinese Chan), some people call it thamal shepa (Tibetan Chagchen), some people call it "rigpa" (Tibetan Dzogchen), etc.. In the Pāli suttas the Buddha called it the measureless mind, the luminous mind, and so on. It will accompany one all the way to awakening.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun May 15, 2011 4:16 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
In the context of the Tibetan traditions, the teaching on buddha nature is pointing to this: Every moment of percipient consciousness has a very basic and quite unremarkable quality of cognitive clarity. This lucid clarity in and of itself is a naturally occurring disposition (prakṛtisthagotra) of selfless, non-referential cognition, while all afflictions and defilements are adventitious, meaning that they can be removed from this basic awareness. This awareness is likened to a clear crystal, which is utterly transparent, but when it's placed on a red cloth the crystal appears to be red, when placed on a blue cloth the crystal appears blue, when placed on a black cloth it appears black, etc.. But the crystal itself is not red nor blue nor black. Similarly, the mind has the capacity to reflect whatever presents itself to awareness, but the lucid clarity of awareness itself remains the same regardless of the contents of that awareness. 

If we can calm the mind and recognize this basic quality of knowing, and then learn to sustain this basic recognition by developing dispassion towards the objects of awareness, then this naturally occurring knowing is where we can rest, without grasping externally nor withdrawing internally nor dwelling anywhere in-between. Some people call this basic knowing "poo roo" (Thai), some people call it "lingzhi" (Chinese Chan), some people call it thamal shepa (Tibetan Chagchen), some people call it "rigpa" (Tibetan Dzogchen), etc.. In the Pāli suttas the Buddha called it the measureless mind, the luminous mind, and so on. It will accompany one all the way to awakening.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat May 14, 2011 3:56 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Why do you want to focus on this particular sūtra Kirk? Firstly, the Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra is a composite text. And secondly, if you were to actually read this sūtra, and others which present the idea of buddha nature, you would discover that they explicitly state that the teaching on buddha nature is an expedient means used to calm the minds of people who are still not comfortable with anattā as well as to dispel notions of religious superiority. It's a bodhisattvayāna pedagogic tool -- a skillful means (upāyakauśalya).

For these and other reasons, most Tibetan lamas would not consider the Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra to be a definitive teaching. It requires interpretation to be correctly understood.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat May 14, 2011 1:49 pm
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
Indeed. And it shouldn't be that difficult for anyone to see how these devotional practices and aspects of visionary narrative (e.g. Buddhāpadāna, Jātakas, etc.) were used by the Indian religious imagination as skillful means which eventually formed the structural elements of Mahāyāna Sūtras and Vajrayāna Sādhanas.

As an aside, I've had the good fortune to spend enough time with different Asian Buddhist communities -- Thai, Cambodian, Chinese, and Tibetan -- to see that while the outer forms and appearances may differ, the qualities of devotion, kindness, and joy (as well as less noble qualities such as gossip and so on) are all quite present and genuine.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat May 14, 2011 6:54 am
Title: Re: Approaches taken in the contemporary discourse on Buddhism
Content:
Given the definitions of each category given by the author, methinks the option of "None of the above" should be added to the survey.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat May 14, 2011 6:44 am
Title: Re: suttas and the kasinas(vishudhimagga)
Content:



Author: Nyana
Date: Sat May 14, 2011 6:43 am
Title: Re: The Fourteen Precepts of the Order of Interbeing
Content:



Author: Nyana
Date: Sat May 14, 2011 5:21 am
Title: Re: Why such a difference?
Content:
There's plenty of emphasis on emptiness in the Theravāda canon. There are entire discourses on emptiness:

MN 121 Cūḷasuññatā Sutta

MN 122 Mahāsuññatā Sutta

MN 122 Mahāsuññatā Sutta &amp; Commentary

SN 35.85 Suñña Sutta

SN 22.95 Pheṇapiṇḍūpama Sutta

And entire canonical commentaries on emptiness, such as the Paṭisambhidāmagga Suññatākathā.


And also entire discourses on teaching by the middle (majjhena dhamma):

SN 12.17 Acelakassapa Sutta (Also SN 12.15, SN 12.35, SN 12.48, SN 22.90, etc.)


There's also beautiful visionary devotional passages in the Theravāda Tipiṭaka, such as the Buddhāpadāna of the Khuddakanikāya.

And the bodhisatta path is also part of the Theravāda tradition: A Treatise on the Pāramīs by Ācariya Dhammapāla.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat May 14, 2011 5:19 am
Title: Re: Emptiness (Suññatā)
Content:
And entire commentaries on emptiness. For example, Paṭisambhidāmagga Suññatākathā (excerpts):
What is emptiness in [relation to] change? 

Born, form is empty of self-nature (sabhāvena suñña); disappeared, form is both changed and empty. 

Born, feeling is empty of self-nature; disappeared, feeling is both changed and empty. 

Born, perception is empty of self-nature; disappeared, perception is both changed and empty. 

Born, fabrications are empty of self-nature; disappeared, fabrications are both changed and empty. 

Born, consciousness is empty of self-nature; disappeared, consciousness is both changed and empty. 

Born, the eye is empty ... the ear is empty ... the nose is empty ... the tongue is empty ... the body is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

Born, forms are empty ... sounds are empty ... odors are empty ... flavors are empty ... tactile sensations are empty of self-nature; disappeared, they are both changed and empty. 

Born, visual consciousness is empty ... auditory consciousness is empty ... olfactory consciousness is empty ... gustatory consciousness is empty ... tactile consciousness is empty ... mental consciousness is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

Born, eye-contact is empty ... ear-contact is empty ... nose-contact is empty ... tongue-contact is empty ... body-contact is empty ... mind-contact is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

Born, feeling born of eye-contact is empty ... feeling born of ear-contact is empty ... feeling born of nose-contact is empty ... feeling born of tongue-contact is empty ... feeling born of body-contact is empty ... feeling born of mind-contact is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

Born, perception of forms is empty ... perception of sounds is empty ... perception of odors is empty ... perception of flavors is empty ... perception of tactile sensations is empty ... perception of mental phenomena is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

Born, volitional intention pertaining to forms is empty ... volitional intention pertaining to sounds is empty ... volitional intention pertaining to odors is empty ... volitional intention pertaining to flavors is empty ... volitional intention pertaining to tactile sensations is empty ... volitional intention pertaining to mental phenomena is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

Born, craving for forms is empty ... craving for sounds is empty ... craving for odors is empty ... craving for flavors is empty ... craving for tactile sensations is empty ... craving for mental phenomena is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

Born, directed thought pertaining to forms is empty ... directed thought pertaining to sounds is empty ... directed thought pertaining to odors is empty ... directed thought pertaining to flavors is empty ... directed thought pertaining to tactile sensations is empty ... directed thought pertaining to mental phenomena is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

Born, examination pertaining to forms is empty ... examination pertaining to sounds is empty ... examination pertaining to odors is empty ... examination pertaining to flavors is empty ... examination pertaining to tactile sensations is empty ... examination pertaining to mental phenomena is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty.

Born, the eye sensory sphere is empty ... the form sensory sphere is empty ... the ear sensory sphere is empty ... the sound sensory sphere is empty ... the nose sensory sphere is empty ... the odor sensory sphere is empty ... the tongue sensory sphere is empty ... the flavor sensory sphere is empty ... the body sensory sphere is empty ... the tactile sensation sensory sphere is empty ... the mind sensory sphere is empty ... the mental phenomena sensory sphere is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

Born, the eye element is empty ... the form element is empty ... the visual consciousness element is empty ... the ear element is empty ... the sound element is empty ... the auditory consciousness element is empty ... the nose element is empty ... the odor element is empty ... the olfactory consciousness element is empty ... the tongue element is empty ... the flavor element is empty ... the gustatory consciousness element is empty ... the body element is empty ... the tactile sensation element is empty ... the tactile consciousness element is empty ... the mind element is empty ... the mental phenomena element is empty ... the mental consciousness element is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

Born, the sensual desire element is empty ... the form element is empty ... the formless element is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

Born, ignorance is empty ... fabrications are empty ... consciousness is empty ... name and form are empty ... the sixfold sensory spheres are empty ... contact is empty ... feeling is empty ... craving is empty ... grasping is empty ... becoming is empty of self-nature; disappeared, it is both changed and empty. 

What is supreme emptiness? 

This dhamma is supreme, this dhamma is superior, this dhamma is excellent: the calming of all fabrications, the release of all acquisitions, the exhaustion of craving, dispassion, cessation, nibbāna. This is supreme emptiness. 

What is internal emptiness? 

Internally the eye is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Internally the ear is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Internally the nose is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Internally the tongue is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Internally the body is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Internally the mind is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

This is internal emptiness. 

What is external emptiness? 

Externally form is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Externally sound is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Externally odor is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Externally flavor is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Externally tactile sensation is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Externally mental phenomena are empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

This is external emptiness. 

What is emptiness both ways? 

Internally the eye and externally form are both empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Internally the ear and externally sound are both empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Internally the nose and externally odor are both empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Internally the tongue and externally flavor are both empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Internally the body and externally tactile sensation are both empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

Internally the mind and externally mental phenomena are both empty of a self or that which belongs to a self or of what is permanent and everlasting and eternal and not subject to change. 

This is emptiness both ways. 

What is the ultimate meaning (paramattha) of emptiness [as it relates to] all kinds of emptiness, which is the terminating of occurrence in one who is fully aware? 

Here, through renunciation one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of sensual desire; through nonaggression one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of aggression; through perception of light one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of dullness and drowsiness; through nondistraction one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of agitation; through understanding phenomena one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of doubt; through knowledge one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of ignorance; through gladness one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of boredom.

Through the first jhāna one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of the hindrances; through the second jhāna one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of directed thought and examination; through the third jhāna one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of rapture; through the fourth jhāna one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of pleasure; through the attainment of the sphere of infinite space one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of perceptions of form, perceptions of resistance, and perceptions of diversity; through the attainment of the sphere of infinite consciousness one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of perception of the sphere of infinite space; through the attainment of the sphere of nothingness one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of perception of the sphere of infinite consciousness; through the attainment of the sphere of neither-perception-nor-nonperception one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of perception of the sphere of nothingness. 

Through the contemplation of impermanence one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of the perception of permanence; through the contemplation of unsatisfactoriness one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of the perception of satisfactoriness; through the contemplation of not-self one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of the perception of self; through the contemplation of dispassion one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of delight; through the contemplation of fading away one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of greed; through the contemplation of cessation one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of arising; through the contemplation of relinquishment one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of grasping; through the contemplation of decay one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of the perception of compactness; through the contemplation of fall one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of accumulation; through the contemplation of change one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of the perception of everlastingness; through the contemplation of signlessness one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of signs; through the contemplation of desirelessness one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of desire; through the contemplation of emptiness one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of misinterpretation; through the clear seeing of phenomena that is higher discernment one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of misinterpretation due to grasping at a core; through gnosis and seeing one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of misinterpretation due to delusion; through the contemplation of [the] danger [of fabrications] one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of misinterpretation due to reliance [on fabrications]; through the contemplation of reflection one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of non-reflection; through the contemplation of turning away one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of misinterpretation due to bondage. 

Through the stream-entry path one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of defilements associated with wrong view; through the once-returner path one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of gross defilements; through the non-returner path one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of secondary defilements; through the arahant path one who is fully aware terminates the occurrence of all defilements [i.e. ignorance]. 

Or through the nibbāna element (nibbānadhātu) without any grasping remaining for one who is fully aware this occurrence of eye ends and no further occurrence of eye arises; this occurrence of ear ends and no further occurrence of ear arises; this occurrence of nose ends and no further occurrence of nose arises; this occurrence of tongue ends and no further occurrence of tongue arises; this occurrence of body ends and no further occurrence of body arises; this occurrence of mind ends and no further occurrence of mind arises. 

This is the ultimate meaning of emptiness [as it relates to] all kinds of emptiness, which is the terminating of occurrence in one who is fully aware.

Paṭisambhidāmagga Vimokkhakathā (excerpts):
Monks, there are these three liberations (vimokkha). What three? Emptiness liberation, signlessness liberation, and desirelessness liberation. These, monks, are three liberations. 

What is emptiness liberation? 

Here, monks, a monk, gone to the forest or to the root of a tree or to an empty place, reflects: 'This is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self.' In this way he construes no misinterpretation [regarding phenomena], therefore it is liberation through emptiness. This is emptiness liberation. 

What is signlessness liberation? 

Here, monks, a monk, gone to the forest or to the root of a tree or to an empty place, reflects: 'This is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self.' In this way he construes no signs [regarding phenomena], therefore it is liberation through signlessness. This is signlessness liberation. 

What is desirelessness liberation? 

Here, monks, a monk, gone to the forest or to the root of a tree or to an empty place, reflects: 'This is empty of a self or that which belongs to a self.' In this way he construes no desire [regarding phenomena], therefore it is liberation through desirelessness. This is desirelessness liberation. 

Knowledge from contemplation of the impermanence of form ... feeling ... perception ... fabrications ... consciousness ... etc., is emptiness liberation because it liberates from misinterpreting [these phenomena] as being permanent. 

Knowledge from contemplation of the unsatisfactoriness of form ... feeling ... perception ... fabrications ... consciousness ... etc., is emptiness liberation because it liberates from misinterpreting [these phenomena] as being satisfactory. 

Knowledge from contemplation of the selflessness of form ... feeling ... perception ... fabrications ... consciousness ... etc., is emptiness liberation because it liberates from misinterpreting [these phenomena] as being a self. 

Knowledge from contemplation of the signlessness of form ... feeling ... perception ... fabrications ... consciousness ... etc., is emptiness liberation because it liberates from misinterpreting [these phenomena] as having signs. 

Knowledge from contemplation of the desirelessness of form ... feeling ... perception ... fabrications ... consciousness ... etc., is emptiness liberation because it liberates from misinterpreting [these phenomena] as being desirable. 

Knowledge from contemplation of the emptiness of form ... feeling ... perception ... fabrications ... consciousness ... etc., is emptiness liberation because it liberates from all misinterpretation.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri May 13, 2011 1:36 am
Title: Re: The Fourteen Precepts of the Order of Interbeing
Content:
Yes, understanding which is not dependent on others. Gnosis and vision which is individually known (paccatta veditabba).
Looking into the world
I see alone a chrysanthemum,
Lonely loneliness,
And death approaches.
Abandoned by guru and friend,
I stand like the lonely juniper
Which grows among rocks,
Hardened and tough.
Loneliness is my habit—
I grew up in loneliness.
Like a rhinoceros
Loneliness is my companion—
I converse with myself.
Yet sometimes also
Lonely moon,
Sad and Happy
Come together.

Do not trust.
If you trust you are in
Others hands.
It is like the single yak
That defeats the wolves.
Herds panic and in trying to flee
Are attacked.
Remaining in solitude
You can never be defeated.
Do not trust,
Trust is surrendering oneself.
Never, never trust.

But be friendly,
By being friendly towards others,
You increase your non-trusting.
The idea is to be independent,
Not involved.
Not glued, one might say, to others.
Thus one becomes ever more
Compassionate and friendly.
Whatever happens, stand on your own feet
And memorize this incantation:
Do not trust.

—Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

And by all means, do not trust Trungpa.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri May 13, 2011 1:21 am
Title: Re: Viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ=unestablished consciousness=nibbana?
Content:
If you're interested then you can read what he has to say in detail here: The Mind Stilled: 33 Sermons on Nibbāna.

IMO any speculation regarding the postmortem status of an arahant -- either pro or con -- is counterproductive. MN 72 Aggivacchagotta Sutta informs us that any view regarding the postmortem existence or non-existence of an arahant is a fetter of view (diṭṭhisaṃyojana) which doesn't lead to direct gnosis, to awakening, to nibbāna:
The view that after death a tathāgata exists is a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a vacillation of views, a fetter of views. It is accompanied by dissatisfaction, distress, despair, and fever. It does not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calmness, direct gnosis, full awakening, nibbāna.

The view that after death a tathāgata does not exist is a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a vacillation of views, a fetter of views. It is accompanied by dissatisfaction, distress, despair, and fever. It does not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calmness, direct gnosis, full awakening, nibbāna.

The view that after death a tathāgata both exists and does not exist is a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a vacillation of views, a fetter of views. It is accompanied by dissatisfaction, distress, despair, and fever. It does not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calmness, direct gnosis, full awakening, nibbāna.

The view that after death a tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist is a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a vacillation of views, a fetter of views. It is accompanied by dissatisfaction, distress, despair, and fever. It does not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calmness, direct gnosis, full awakening, nibbāna.

When the mind is completely awake and fully aware there is no urge to project or speculate about a hypothetical future. An arahant has realized that there is absolutely nothing whatsoever to be grasped at or clung to. And when the moment of death arrives he or she meets it with consciousness not established (appatiṭṭha viññāṇa).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu May 12, 2011 10:38 am
Title: Re: Viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ=unestablished consciousness=nibbana?
Content:
I can't speak for Ven. Ñāṇananda, but it seems to me that he is just borrowing a page from Nāgārjuna to demonstrate that nibbāna isn't an ultimately existing unconditioned realm (an idea that has gained currency in Theravāda circles). 

There is a long history in Mahāyāna exegesis of pointing out the selflessness of phenomena (dharmanairātmya) and thereby describing consciousness as appatiṭṭha (Skt. apratiṣṭha) and anidassana (Skt. anidarśana). (Cf. Kāśyapaparivarta Sūtra, Sarvadharmāpravṛttinirdeśa Sūtra, Vimalakīrtinirdeśa Sūtra, Ratnagotravibhāga Śāstra, etc.. Also, Nāgārjuna quotes the passage from DN 11 in his Ratnāvalī.)

Similarly, Ven. Ñāṇananda describes supramundane consciousness as "seeing through the object" (i.e. realizing the essencelessness of concomitant mental phenomena). But where Ñāṇananda differs from Nāgārjuna, et al, is that Ñāṇananda explicitly rejects the possibility of any post-mortem continuum for an arahant.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu May 12, 2011 9:18 am
Title: Re: Viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ=unestablished consciousness=nibbana?
Content:
Both expressions arrive at the same place: consciousness not being established in relation to passion, aggression, or delusion. It seems to me that what Ven. Ñāṇananda is getting at is that the object-basis of supramundane consciousness isn't some sort of "Unconditioned Realm" existing somewhere outside of time and space. Rather, it is a cognition which perceives the absence of specific fetters.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu May 12, 2011 8:56 am
Title: Re: Viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ=unestablished consciousness=nibbana?
Content:
Indeed, this is what is important. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu May 12, 2011 5:11 am
Title: Re: Requesting Forgiveness From the Dhamma Wheel Community
Content:
Hi all,

I would also like to take a moment to ask for forgiveness if any of my more provocative statements and use of language have caused hurt feelings on the part of fellow DW members. May we as dhamma practitioners have enough wisdom to see our shared unity, and may this lead us to acknowledge and respect our shared diversity.
Happy, at rest, may all beings be happy at heart. Whatever beings there may be, weak or strong, without exception, long, large, middling, short, subtle, blatant, seen &amp; unseen, near &amp; far, born &amp; seeking birth: May all beings be happy at heart.

Mettā,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu May 12, 2011 2:47 am
Title: Re: suttas and the kasinas(vishudhimagga)
Content:
In the later strata of commentaries a distinction is made between an "unprepared, unmade" kasiṇa, such as a large plowed field, and a "prepared, made up" kasiṇa, which is the circular disk (maṇḍala), made out of soil or clay. In the Vimuttimagga (circa ~100 CE) both types of kasiṇa are described in detail. Later still, in the Visuddhimagga (circa ~500 CE), the unmade kasiṇa is briefly mentioned, but is no longer considered a suitable object for development unless one had already developed this practice in previous lives. Thus, the Visuddhimagga only describes the made up circular disk type of kasiṇa. And then due to semantic shift, the term kasiṇa began to be identified as this type of circular disk.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:00 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
I just did: here.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:58 am
Title: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Visuddhimagga Chapter 23:
Herein, (i) What is the attainment of cessation? It is the non-occurrence of consciousness (citta) and its concomitants (cetasikā) owing to their progressive cessation.

(ii) Who attains it? (iii) Who do not attain it? No ordinary men, no stream-enterers or once-returners, and no non-returners and Arahants who are bare-insight workers attain it. But both non-returners and those with cankers destroyed (Arahants) who are obtainers of the eight attainments attain it.

The attainment of cessation (nirodhasamāpatti) is the same as the attainment of cessation of perception and feeling (saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpatti). It is only non-returners and arahants who can attain the eight attainments (the four jhānas plus the four formless attainments) who can properly engage in the cessation attainment. Other arahants cannot. Thus, it cannot be equated with nibbāna as the not-fabricated (asaṅkhata). Moreover, this chapter then goes on to explicitly state that the attainment of cessation is neither supramundane (lokuttara) nor not-fabricated (asaṅkhata).

If you're going to discuss a text, a Buddhist school, or a tenet system, that you do so within the framework of that text, Buddhist school, or tenet system.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:51 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
As I said, if you would take the time to check the source materials, the knowledge of insight leading to emergence occurs before the path and fruition knowledge. The "lights out" part is his version of path and fruition knowledge. He further qualifies this lights out as "unconsciousness" and "the total cessation of the mind-body process. He did not 'know' this while it was happening, because there was no sense of a mind to know it. All he 'knows' about the experience is his reflection on what has just happened."

This is a description of falling into the bhavaṅga, which he mistakes for nibbāna. There is no perception nor concomitant jhāna factors of supramundane cognition in a state described as "the total cessation of the mind-body process" wherein "he did not know this while it was happening."


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:45 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
You wanted names. So there we have it.

I've said what I had to say. And I stand behind what I've said. Kearney's words were used, but not misrepresented.

I have no time for Sylvester. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:37 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Yeah, well, it's the same view. And it was the view which I was criticizing. I have no problem with using Kearney's words to make the point.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:02 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Ok. Understood. But I'm the one who should answer. It's unfortunate that this is an issue at all. The motivation for creating this thread in the first place was to point out that Rowyourboat is posting here on DW with this mistaken view, all the while playing the role as a meditation instructor. Kearney's paper just served as an explicit reference to this type of view of nibbāna. Plus, I read Kearney's other paper where he tried to crap all over Kornfield and I figured that he was worthy of being on the receiving end.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:57 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Seriously. Give it a rest.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:47 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Bringing this issue out into the light of day is enough. There isn't anything to be gained here by naming more names. When ppl are informed they can make informed decisions for themselves.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:14 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Why should you care?


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:28 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Unfortunately there is at least one member here who wants to read into the suttavinaya this idea of nibbāna -- the not-fabricated (asaṅkhata) -- as being a blackout-nothingness or a state of unconsciousness. Thus, it may be prudent to demonstrate that the Theravāda Abhidhamma and main commentaries never held such a notion. It may also very well be excessive. But it's sometimes less palatable to say nothing than to say something. Especially as this member in question is trying to play the role of a meditation instructor here on DW.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:59 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
This thread pertains to issues concerning 20th century interpretations of a commentarial teaching which postdates the suttas by almost 1000 years Dave. In the sutta strata of the canon this issue doesn't even exist. Thus, the source materials relevant to this discussion are the Abhidhamma and Visuddhimagga. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:42 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Sure. The Dhammasaṅgaṇī and so on, are merely additional tools.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:16 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Here is a summary of some of what I have been saying: Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha:
1. The First Jhāna Sotāpatti Path-consciousness together with initial application, sustained application, joy, happiness, and one-pointedness,
2. The Second Jhāna Sotāpatti Path-consciousness together with sustained application, joy, happiness, and one-pointedness,
3. The Third Jhāna Sotāpatti Path-consciousness together with joy, happiness, and one-pointedness,
4. The Fourth Jhāna Sotāpatti Path-consciousness together with happiness and one-pointedness,
5. The Fifth Jhāna Sotāpatti Path-consciousness together with equanimity and one-pointedness.

These are the five types of Sotāpatti Path-consciousness.

So are the Sakadāgāmī Path-consciousness, Anāgāmī Path-consciousness, and Arahatta Path-consciousness, making exactly twenty classes of consciousness. Similarly there are twenty classes of Fruit-consciousness. Thus there are forty types of supra mundane consciousness.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:11 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
That doesn't make it wrong, or inconsistent with what he did teach. Of course, if one wants to look at the suttas have to say about stream-entry that's fine too. There isn't any trace of Kearney's unconscious path attainment there either.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:12 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Sometimes it seems worth it to try to clarify some of the more subtle aspects of the dhamma. Other times it seems pointless to bother saying anything at all. But some things do need to be said. As always, it's a question of balance.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:11 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
The cognitive processes of supramundane cognitions are only clearly described in the Abhidhamma and Visuddhimagga. It's your choice to refuse to accept what these sources have to say. But then you're dismissing the entire Theravāda to adhere to a mistaken view. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:06 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
More utter nonsense. It's obvious that you have no way of stepping outside of your conceptual box in order to appreciate the subtleties of what I have said on the issue of consciousness or any other. There is no point in trying to communicate with you. I hope your straightjacket serves you well.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:11 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Thanks Robert. I knew this thread would be somewhat contentious. I've remained silent on this issue for some time. It is an important one, and should be aired. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:04 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
I learned quite some time ago that if you're going to discuss a text, a Buddhist school, or a tenet system, that you do so within the framework of that text, Buddhist school, or tenet system. It's utterly ridiculous to suggest that Kearney's text be exempt from critical analysis according to the authoritative source of the 16 insight gnoses presented in the Visuddhimagga.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:20 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Nonsense. I only ever posted there a handful of times and haven't been there in years. As for the rest of your assertions, they're also without merit but are completely off topic.


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:04 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
When discussing the stage model of 16 vipassanā gnoses there is no other authority than the commentaries. If it isn't supported by the Visuddhimagga -- which is the authoritative source of the presentation that they're claiming to follow -- then it's just another example of wild west dhamma. In his paper Still Crazy after all these Years: Why Meditation isn’t Psychotherapy, Kearney himself says that the bar should be raised:
Let’s not try to fool ourselves or anyone else that we are practising the teachings of the Buddha when we follow any of these ersatz forms of Buddhism. Let’s be clear whose teachings we are putting our faith in.

As I've already said, I agree with this call to diligent inquiry. And I think that this investigation should extend to the ideas which Kearney himself attributes to the Buddha. And upon investigation, I don't see how anyone who diligently and openly scrutinizes Kearney's notion of the noble path, as quoted in the OP of this thread, can in any way shape or form place Keraney's ideas of this very important aspect of Buddhist soteriology, in the lap of the Buddha or the redactors of the Pāḷi canon. There is simply no trace of what he is telling us in the canonical Pāḷi dhamma or the Visuddhimagga, which, again, is the source of the stage model 16 vipassanā gnoses. 

If Kearney was trying to describe the path and fruition stages -- which he most certainly was -- then he utterly failed. Why? Because there is no mention of any of the indicators of a supramundane path and fruition cognition in his description. Zero. None. This is a pretty glaring omission regarding the climax stage of the entire presentation written by someone who has "trained extensively in the Mahāsī approach to insight meditation." On the contrary, there is every indication in his description that he had fallen into the bhavaṅga and then mistaken this non-percipient state for nibbāna.

Kearney then uses this misguided nihilistic experience to inform his nihilistic view and then accuse teachers like Kornfield of misrepresenting Buddhism. Sorry, but this type of nihilistic extremism is just another example of wild west dhamma.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:06 pm
Title: Re: Vipassana taught by the Buddha
Content:



Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:51 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Probably better to err on the side of caution.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:23 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
It's stated in Visuddhimagga Chapter 23:
Herein, (i) What is the attainment of cessation? It is the non-occurrence of consciousness (citta) and its concomitants (cetasikā) owing to their progressive cessation.

(ii) Who attains it? (iii) Who do not attain it? No ordinary men, no stream-enterers or once-returners, and no non-returners and Arahants who are bare-insight workers attain it. But both non-returners and those with cankers destroyed (Arahants) who are obtainers of the eight attainments attain it.

The attainment of cessation (nirodhasamāpatti) is the same as the attainment of cessation of perception and feeling (saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpatti). It is only non-returners and arahants who can attain the eight attainments (the four jhānas plus the four formless attainments) who can properly engage in the cessation attainment. This chapter also differentiates between the fruition attainments of the noble paths (phalasamāpatti) and the cessation attainment (nirodhasamāpatti). It then goes on to say that the attainment of cessation is neither supramundane (lokuttara) nor not-fabricated (asaṅkhata).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:11 pm
Title: Re: Vipassana taught by the Buddha
Content:
Actually, I was agreeing with him. I guess a  doesn't really make that clear.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:59 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
No. It can be classified as either a path attainment or fruition attainment samādhi, both of which include the presence of perception and concomitant jhāna factors.

The cessation of perception and feeling, on the other hand, isn't classifiable as mind (citta), mental factors (cetasikā), form (rūpa), or nibbāna. This is why it isn't included in the Dhammasaṅgaṇī's enumeration of dhammas, nor in the Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha's enumeration of 89 and 121 types of consciousness and concomitant mental factors, which includes all types of worldly and supramundane cognition.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:29 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
No it isn't.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:28 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Sorry, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with East vs. West. The compilers of the Abhidhammapiṭaka were Indians. Ven. Buddhaghosa was an Indian. Ven. Ñāṇārāma was a Sri Lankan. I have repeatedly provided quotations from these sources to explain the principles of how the supramundane path is attained. You are certainly free to dismiss these sources, but that means dismissing well over a third of the Pāḷi Tipiṭaka, as well as the Theravāda commentarial tradition in its entirety.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:26 pm
Title: Re: Vipassana taught by the Buddha
Content:
All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:18 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
All you are displaying is a misunderstanding of the sequential stage model of the vipassanāñāṇas as presented in the Visuddhimagga, and in Mahāsi Sayādaw's Visuddhiñāṇakathā and Kearney's text. In recent threads you have displayed similar misunderstandings of Ñāṇananda's teachings and Ñāṇavīra's teachings. I don't know if this is intentional or not, but it can't seriously be considered to accurately reflect the intended meaning of what Kearney is saying. 

Kearney lists and describes each of the first 14 ñāṇas in sequential order, then, according to you, when he gets to stage 15, the maggaphalañāṇa, he mysteriously decides to not describe this stage, but to describe a completely unrelated experience instead. 

Sorry, but your interpretation can't be taken seriously. If it's intentional, then it's just another attempt to muddy the waters. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:54 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
If you think that the contemplation of cessation (nirodhānupassī) means unconsciousness then good luck with that. If you think that any of the factors of awakening are meant to induce unconsciousness then good luck with that too.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:54 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Of course the Mahāsi method and Kearney's text must be measured against the post-canonical materials and the commentarial interpretation of the canon. In his text Kearney explicitly acknowledges that his presentation is supposedly based on these post-canonical sources:
This complex construction of 16 nanas is not found in the Tipitaka, the early Buddhist texts. They seem to be an invention of the medieval Theravada tradition, and you can find a complete analysis of them in Buddhaghosa’s Visuddhimagga.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:44 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
There is no need to read this sutta as indicating some sort of absolute reality or any other type of absolute "otherness." The terms refer to the reverse sequence of conditioned arising (paṭiccasamuppāda): not-born (ajāta) = cessation of birth (jātinirodha), not-become (abhūta) = cessation of becoming (bhavanirodha), not-made (akata) = cessation of craving and cessation of clinging (taṇhānirodha &amp; upādānanirodha), not-fabricated (asaṅkhata) = cessation of volitional fabrications (saṅkhāranirodha), which refers to the the calming of all specific fabrication and volitional intention mentioned in MN 140 Dhātuvibhaṅga Sutta:
One does not form any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence. Not forming any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence, he does not cling to anything in this world. Not clinging, he is not excited. Unexcited, he personally attains complete nibbāna. He discerns that, ‘Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, done is what had to be done, there is nothing further here.’

Thus, with the cessation of ignorance there is the cessation of volitional fabrications; with the cessation of volitional fabrications there is the cessation of craving and clinging; with the cessation of craving and clinging there is the cessation of becoming; with the cessation of becoming there is the cessation of birth. Such is the cessation of this entire heap of unsatisfactoriness.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:42 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
I can understand why someone like yourself who seems to be attracted to extremist views would find it difficult to navigate between different interpretive frameworks. And it isn't surprising in the least that someone who is attracted by the idea of the most radically extreme comprehensionless samādhi might also find the most radically extreme notion of an unconscious noble path appealing as well.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:25 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
It looks like we've discovered the source of Kearney's and Ingram's unconscious path attainment. According to the Visuddhimagga there can be no path attainment without a perceiving mind and its concomitant mental factors. Robert has previously pointed out that Mahāsi Sayādaw's teachings fall short when trying to articulate the subtler points in the Visuddhimagga, and it seems that here we can see another example of why Mahāsi's teachings have created much controversy and criticism in Burma. That said, I don't think that Mahāsi Sayādaw himself is saying that the noble path attainment is an unconscious, non-path, non-attainment.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:55 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
As I've already replied to you at least twice on this point, I will refresh your memory one last time. I said: One could designate it as mental-consciousness (manoviññāṇa), as per MN 38: "[W]hen consciousness arises dependent on the mind and mind-objects, it is reckoned as mind-consciousness." This is what the early ābhidhammikas have decided.

The phrase "unestablished consciousness" was merely a designation used in relation to the phrase "When that consciousness is not established...." Thus, it was simply a designation for a fabricated cognition. No need to try to draw out inferences and consequences which were neither stated nor implied. Now please, quit the attempts to divert attention with red herrings. If you are interested in successfully navigating between the interpretive frameworks of the traditional Theravāda Ācariyas, Ven. Ñāṇananda, Ven. Ñāṇavīra, etc., then I would suggest studying their respective works in detail. It may yield a bit of dialectical flexibility. If you're not interested, then don't bother. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:17 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
All cognitive processes are fabricated. All cognitions are fabricated. All gnoses are fabricated.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:31 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
This is all that is relevant to this discussion. Followers of the Mahāsi Sayādaw method maintain that the Mahāsi approach is based on the Visuddhimagga, as well as the Theravāda commentaries, sub-commentaries, and other treatises. Hence, your qualm about Theravāda interpretation of the Dhs. isn't relevant to the topic at hand.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:51 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Yes.

Your turn: Why do you remain unwilling to accept the Dhammasaṅgaṇī's enumeration and definition of dhammas which occur at the time of attaining the noble paths and fruitions?

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:45 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
No it isn't. But at any rate, let's not get sidetracked by what is not relevant to the topic at hand Sylvester. The point is this: According to ābhidhammika analysis the noble path arises via supramundane cognition. And supramundane cognition is accompanied by mental factors.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:39 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
No I'm not saying that. 

Your turn: Why do you remain unwilling to accept the Dhammasaṅgaṇī's enumeration and definition of dhammas which occur at the time of attaining the noble paths and fruitions?

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:51 pm
Title: Re: Viññana-dhatu vs Viññana-khandha
Content:
I think that Kee Nanayon would be the only one to answer that in the context of what she was teaching. Good teaching though!

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:40 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Nice try.  How about this: Let go of infatuation with momentary blip blackouts and craving non-existence and learn the Pāḷi dhamma as taught in the Pāḷi Tipiṭaka? Then you'll have no need to ask these questions. And BTW, I still can't quite comprehend your unwillingness to accept the Dhammasaṅgaṇī's enumeration and definition of dhammas which occur at the time of attaining the noble paths and fruitions? Do you think that the compilers of the Dhammasaṅgaṇī were mistaken?

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:48 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
The development of discernment pertaining to the four noble truths requires a far more precise and complete experiential understanding and path of training than is generally acknowledged by the advocates of the "one-mind-moment" or "one-mindless-moment" noble path. Discerning that "everything which arises is subject to cessation" is just the beginning of discernment, and anyone who can observe the occurrence of a thought can readily begin to see this: a thought arises, remains for a certain duration, and then ceases.

What is also necessary for discernment to actually develop into liberating gnosis is a sustained, dedicated, experiential penetration of the origin of unsatisfactoriness. Specifically, craving sensual pleasure, craving existence, and craving non-existence (kāmataṇhā, bhavataṇhā, and vibhavataṇhā). And what is further required in order to develop an intimate understanding of how craving actually operates, is the experiential understanding and discernment of volitional intention (cetanā). Not merely a theoretical understanding -- what is required is clearly seeing how these fabrications function in real time in our mind-stream: How do craving and volitional intention interact? How do these processes result in unsatisfactoriness? How can I begin to develop disenchantment and dispassion pertaining to the various things which trigger craving? How can I begin to ease up on and let go of this insatiable infatuation with the propagation of creature comforts, habitual emotions, and self-confirming thought patterns? In short, how can I skillfully develop all of the constituents of the noble eightfold path in order to realize the cessation of craving sensual pleasure, craving existence, and craving non-existence?

And IMO, the only way to do this is to rely on the actual teachings of the Buddha. This includes the integral development of ethical conduct, meditative composure, and discernment as described in the discourses. And we can't develop this precise, experiential discernment of the four noble truths with a momentary "lights out" path, or any other one moment path. And it's quite likely that we can't develop this precise, experiential discernment of the four noble truths by merely engaging in the observation of change through a conceptual filter of "radical momentariness." Such notions of the path are an anemic and pale substitute for the noble eightfold path of the Pāḷi dhamma. We shouldn't be content with claims of any momentary "blip" panaceas resulting in ariya attainment. A far more comprehensive view and practice is required. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:41 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
According to the Pāḷi dhamma the attainment of cessation of perception and feeling (saññāvedayitanirodha) is only correctly engaged by non-returners and arahants, who are not susceptible to rebirth as an unconscious being. Anyone other than a non-returner or arahant will only be able to attain a non-percipient attainment (asaññasamāpatti), which is considered to be an inappropriate absorption for the reasons already mentioned in this thread. The development of the ālayavijñāna theory isn't directly related to this soteriological issue.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:10 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Yet, you now consider this same line of critical inquiry to be somehow "disparaging," and even replete with "atimāna." Do you consider Kearney's scathing and sustained critique of Kornfield, Rubin, and Epstein (linked to above), where he concluded by dismissing their ideas and teachings as "ersatz forms of Buddhism," to be somehow "disparaging," and displaying "atimāna"?

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:09 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
I agree. It's issues regarding aspects of what is being taught which are in question, not the person. Anyway, back to the issues....

In Still Crazy after all these Years: Why Meditation isn’t Psychotherapy, Kearney presents a scathing and sustained critique of the ideas and teachings of Jack Kornfield, Jeffrey Rubin, and Mark Epstein. In the conclusion of the paper Kearney states that we as practitioners should not fool ourselves or anyone else into believing that we are following the teachings of the Buddha when following a practice which cannot be established as the Buddha's teaching, and that we should be clear about whose teachings we are faithfully following:
Let’s not try to fool ourselves or anyone else that we are practising the teachings of the Buddha when we follow any of these ersatz forms of Buddhism. Let’s be clear whose teachings we are putting our faith in.

I agree with this call to diligent inquiry. And I think that this investigation should extend to the ideas which Kearney himself attributes to the Buddha. Anything less would be, well, insufficient. 

And upon investigation, I don't see how anyone who diligently and openly scrutinizes Kearney's notion of the noble path, as quoted in the OP of this thread, can in any way shape or form place Keraney's ideas of this very important aspect of Buddhist soteriology, in the lap of the Buddha or the redactors of the Pāḷi canon. There is simply no trace of what he is telling us in the canonical Pāḷi dhamma. 

And if this weren't enough cause for concern, the Pāḷi commentaries tell us that this "experience of unconsciousness" wherein there is "no sense of a mind to know" is actually just a non-percipient attainment (asaññasamāpatti). The commentaries warn against this type of practice in no uncertain terms, explicitly stating that this this type of practice can result in rebirth as an unconscious being (asaññasatta). In the context of Buddhist liberation, this consequence would be extremely undesirable, seriously impeding one's ability to develop the noble path.

Therefore I have concluded that what Kearney is presenting in this context is just another "ersatz form of Buddhism." And one with serious deficiencies which should not be overlooked by anyone wishing to follow the Pāḷi dhamma. What he is advocating as the attainment of the noble path, upon critical investigation, can only be characterized as the teaching of a deficient vehicle (hīnayāna); a harmful mental state which should be avoided.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:33 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
I don't know. I suspect that it isn't Kearney's invention. I think you can probably appreciate the historical developments here though. First the noble path gets squeezed into exactly one mind-moment, then "The Unconditioned" gets doctrinally reified more and more until it is so totally "Other" that this monolithic black blankness can't even be concomitant with consciousness and perception. As a result, even the poor old one-mind-moment path gets squeezed out of the picture -- it's now an unconscious one-mindless-moment path! And the noble truth of the cessation of unsatisfactoriness is no longer the elimination of craving sensual pleasure, craving existence, and craving non-existence, it too is now a mindless blip of non-existence.

And even though there is absolutely zero canonical basis for any of this, now we are told that this unconscious one-mindless-moment path-blip is the exclusive panacea for eliminating all fetters, defilements, underlying tendencies and mental outflows. As I mentioned previously, the absurdity of this would be laughable if not for the fact that there are people in this world who are actively promoting this nonsense.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:18 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
I'm not suggesting that one has to enter the paths from jhāna. The Paṭisambhidāmagga indicates that one can attain the first noble path without prior mastery of jhāna. What I'm saying is that, according to the ābhidhammika analysis, the noble paths and fruitions are supramundane jhāna, complete with all of the concomitant jhāna factors, other path factors, and so on.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:48 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
The Pāḷi canon is the authoritative source regarding the Pāḷi dhamma. 

If one has no idea how to get to one's destination, then there's a good chance that one will never arrive there. But even more problematic is the case where one follows an inept guide with a faulty map. In this situation one may arrive somewhere and be told by their guide that this is indeed the destination they were looking for, only to find out later that it isn't the right destination at all.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:44 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Kearney states:
If the meditator checks the watch, he realises some time has passed - depending on the strength of his concentration, this could be anything from a few minutes to a few days and he has "awoken" suddenly into a situation in which the practice is continuing, but the experience is much less subtle than before.... What the meditator has experienced is the total cessation of the mind-body process. He did not "know" this while it was happening., because there was no sense of a mind to know it. [Emphasis added.]

This can only be a non-perceptive attainment. And the gravity of the issue at hand, aside from Kearney obviously misrepresenting the dhamma, is this: If someone were to follow this advice about the noble path and enter into such a non-perceptive attainment, and were to die while remaining in this non-perceptive attainment, the only possible result would be rebirth as an unconscious being. There is nothing "incidental" about advocating such a path as the noble path of the dhamma.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:18 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
There is a spectrum of meditative states which can aid in one's development. But unconscious, non-perceptive states are neither the noble paths nor noble fruitions. When it comes to the noble path, if we don't rely on the canonical teachings, then we end up with the likes of Ingram, et al, maintaining that arahants can experience lust. And Ingram has apparently had plenty of experience with non-perceptive states. It's time to raise the bar.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:09 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
How can one be teaching the dhamma while completely misunderstanding the noble eightfold path?

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:15 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
The noble path is not a "non-experience." This is a gross misrepresentation of the dhamma. Even the mention of such an absurd proposition would be laughable if not for the fact that there are people in this world teaching that unconsciousness is the noble path. Moreover, all sorts of yogis have used non-perceptive attainments to support all sorts of non-Buddhist views. One can easily come across numerous such views in the long history of the Indian yoga traditions. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:03 pm
Title: Re: Sotappana: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha
Content:
[quote="rowyourboat"]It could be -but there is a fatal flaw in that definition of nibbana: it does not account for the cessation of arising and passing away, which is the definition of the unfabricated. 
[quote]
Actually, the flaw is in your analysis of what "not-fabricated" means in the context of the noble paths and fruitions. But this has already been pointed out to you numerous times, to no avail.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:57 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
Thus, "pitch-black emptiness" is neither an adequate nor reliable indication of stream entry or any of the other paths and fruitions. The only criterion which is both an adequate and reliable verification of stream entry or any of the other paths and fruitions is gnosis of the termination of specific fetters in one's mind-stream. The cessation of the five sense faculties doesn't indicate anything.

Of course, none of this is relevant to this thread. What is relevant to this thread is Kearney's assertion that the noble path is an:
experience of unconsciousness

Wherein there is no discernment or gnosis: 
What the meditator has experienced is the total cessation of the mind-body process. He did not "know" this while it was happening., because there was no sense of a mind to know it.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:45 pm
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
It seems that U Ba Khin's student was aware of what he was experiencing as he was experiencing it. This would be one difference. 

But more to the point, "pitch-black emptiness" is neither an adequate nor reliable indication of stream entry or any of the other paths and fruitions. The Dhammasaṅgaṇī Cittuppādakaṇḍa Lokuttarakusala Suddhikapaṭipadā describes the dhammas which are present when attaining the first noble path (or fruition) as follows:
When at a certain time one develops supramundane jhāna, which leads out, which goes to decrease (of rebirth), to abandonment of wrong views, to the attainment of the first stage (i.e. sotāpattimagga), quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful phenomena, he enters and remains in the first jhāna, which includes directed thought and evaluation, as well as joy and pleasure born of seclusion, and with difficult practice and slow acquisition of gnosis, then at that time there is contact, there is feeling, there is apperception, there is volitional intention, there is directed thought, there is evaluation, there is joy, there is pleasure, there is singleness of mind, there is the faculty of faith, there is the faculty of energy, there is the faculty of mindfulness, there is the faculty of concentration, there is the faculty of discernment, there is the mind-faculty, there is the joy-faculty, there is the life-faculty, there is right view, there is right resolve, there is right effort, there is right mindfulness, there is right concentration, there is the strength of faith, there is the strength of energy, there is the strength of mindfulness, there is the strength of concentration, there is the strength of discernment, there is the strength of conscience, there is the strength of shame, there is no greed, there is no hate, there is no delusion, there is no avarice, there is no aversion, there is right view, there is conscience, there is shame, there is bodily calm, there is mental calm, there is bodily lightness, there is mental lightness, there is bodily pliability, there is mental pliability, there is bodily workableness, there is mental workableness, there is bodily proficiency, there is mental proficiency, there is bodily uprightness, there is mental uprightness, there is mindfulness, there is full awareness, there is samatha, there is vipassanā, there is exertion, there is non-distraction.

The same dhammas, with the appropriate emendations, are said to be present when attaining the noble path (or fruition) via the second, third, or fourth supramundane jhānas. Moreover, the only criterion which is both an adequate and reliable verification of stream entry or any of the other paths and fruitions is gnosis of the termination of specific fetters in one's mind-stream. This cannot happen without the presence of perception (saññā) and discernment (paññā). The cessation of the five sense faculties doesn't indicate anything.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:36 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
According to the commentarial scheme the entry into the supramundane path can happen after exiting and reviewing a mundane jhāna. But the review of the path and fruition happens post-supramundane jhāna (lokuttarajjhāna).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:08 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
His teachings haven't been misrepresented. He explicitly states:
He did not "know" this while it was happening, because there was no sense of a mind to know it.

If Kearney want's to align what he is teaching with the Pāḷi Dhamma then he should publicly retract this pernicious view. He should also have The Development of Insight removed from Buddhanet.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:45 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
No contradiction. Show us one sutta which states that the noble path is attained without perception, or that this attainment is devoid of joy, non-carnal pleasure, directed thought, evaluation, and singleness of mind, at the minimum.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:39 am
Title: Re: Patrick Kearney is not teaching the Pāḷi Dhamma
Content:
Whatever you are sensing is the product of your own perception. I've given the reason why what he is teaching should be rejected. DN 16:
In such a case, bhikkhus, the declaration of such a bhikkhu is neither to be received with approval nor with scorn. Without approval and without scorn, but carefully studying the sentences word by word, one should trace them in the Discourses and verify them by the Discipline. If they are neither traceable in the Discourses nor verifiable by the Discipline, one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this is not the Blessed One's utterance; this has been misunderstood by that bhikkhu — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that elder.' In that way, bhikkhus, you should reject it.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:10 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
The Dhammasaṅgaṇī presents the path factors which occur at the time of entering a noble path or fruition. There is nothing barring this from happening when someone was listening to the Buddha teach. But for those of us who weren't there when the Buddha was teaching, it's important to understand what the compilers of the Pāḷi Tipiṭaka considered to be important and necessary dhammas which must be present and functional for attainment of the noble path. In short, there can be no path without perception.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:58 am
Title: Re: Patrick Kearney is not teaching the Pāḷi Dhamma
Content:
Kearney is free to teach whatever he wants, and you're free to follow what he's teaching. I have no interest in following what he is advocating. According to DN 16 anyone following the Buddha's dispensation should reject any teaching by any teacher which are not in accord with the dhammavinaya:
In such a case, bhikkhus, the declaration of such a bhikkhu is neither to be received with approval nor with scorn. Without approval and without scorn, but carefully studying the sentences word by word, one should trace them in the Discourses and verify them by the Discipline. If they are neither traceable in the Discourses nor verifiable by the Discipline, one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this is not the Blessed One's utterance; this has been misunderstood by that bhikkhu — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that elder.' In that way, bhikkhus, you should reject it.

It's time to begin stating things for what they are. We have people here on Dhamma Wheel advocating exactly this sort of unconscious attainment that is being taught by Kearney as the noble path. This represents a significant misunderstanding of the Pāḷi dhamma. Following this sort of teaching could result in rebirth as an unconscious being, thus seriously retarding one's development of the path.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:48 am
Title: Re: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
There is no possibility of entering a noble path or noble fruition without the presence of the path and fruition consciousness pertaining to that noble path and fruition. Moreover, the noble paths and fruitions are only entered through the attainment of supramundane jhāna. The Dhammasaṅgaṇī Cittuppādakaṇḍa Lokuttarakusala Suddhikapaṭipadā explains the supramundane dhammas occurring at the time of attaining the noble path via supramundane jhāna and abiding in that path attainment via resultant supramundane jhāna. It explicitly states that the jhāna factors must be present; the faculties of faith, energy, mindfulness, meditative composure, and discernment must be present; and perception must be present in each case. Without the presence of these dhammas there can be no noble path or fruition. The Paṭisambhidāmagga Ñāṇakathā can only be correctly understood with reference to the Dhammasaṅgaṇī Cittuppādakaṇḍa Lokuttarakusala Suddhikapaṭipadā. Ven. Ñāṇārāma has correctly understood that the supramundane path-consciousness of stream-entry is supramundane jhāna which must include the presence of the jhāna factors, and so on. In his Seven Stages of Purification &amp; the Insight Knowledges he states:
At whatever moment he attains the supramundane path, that path-consciousness comes to be reckoned as a jhāna in itself, since it has some affinity with the factors proper to jhānas, such as the first jhāna. What are known as transcendental meditations in Buddhism are these supramundane levels of concentration within the reach of the pure insight meditator.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:55 am
Title: Concerning Kearney's "Development of Insight"
Content:
In The Development of Insight Patrick Kearney states:
In practice, what happens is that the meditator is practicing, every aspect of his meditation is subtle, clear and bright, and then suddenly there is a sense of falling-into (knowledge of insight leading to emergence) and then the lights go out. There is a momentary sense of nothingness, and then the lights come on. If the meditator checks the watch, he realises some time has passed - depending on the strength of his concentration, this could be anything from a few minutes to a few days and he has "awoken" suddenly into a situation in which the practice is continuing, but the experience is much less subtle than before. The meditator is now in the knowledge of arising and passing away (udayabbaya-nana).

What happened? Has he fallen asleep? No, because of the suddenness and clarity of the beginning and end of the experience of unconsciousness, and because there has been absolutely no physical movement. What the meditator has experienced is the total cessation of the mind-body process. He did not "know" this while it was happening., because there was no sense of a mind to know it. [Emphasis added.]

Unfortunately, what Kearney is advocating here as the noble path and fruition of stream-entry is actually just a non-percipient attainment (asaññasamāpatti). A non-percipient attainment is a state devoid of perception entered by worldlings who mistakenly attempt to realize nibbāna by stopping perception and stopping the mind. In the Theravāda commentaries it is considered to be non-Buddhist, and dying while experiencing such a state is said to result in rebirth as a non-percipient, unconscious being (asaññasatta) without any functional mind or mental faculties. It is also considered to be an inappropriate and inopportune plane (akkhaṇa bhūmi), because there is no possibility of practicing dhamma either within the non-perceptive absorption or as a non-percipient being reborn in such a realm. Both as a practice and a saṃsāric realm it arrests any possibility for mental development (bhāvanā).

This mindless, unconscious path that Kearney is advocating does not represent the teachings of the Pāḷi Dhamma. The Pāḷi Tipiṭaka explicitly states that the noble path and fruition cognitions must include perception (saññā). Therefore this notion of the noble paths and fruitions being devoid of perception is not the Pāḷi dhamma. It is the teaching of a deficient vehicle (hīnayāna) which should be avoided.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:57 am
Title: Re: Sotappana: the path and fruit taught by the Buddha
Content:
The Pāḷi Tipiṭaka explicitly states that the noble path and fruition cognitions must include perception (saññā). Therefore any notion of the noble paths and fruitions being devoid of perception is not the Pāḷi dhamma. It is the path of a deficient vehicle (hīnayāna) which should be avoided.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:23 am
Title: Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique
Content:
Yes, non-percipient attainments (asaññasamāpatti) are wrong samādhis entered by worldlings, either intentionally, due to misunderstanding the dhamma, or unintentionally. It's a mistake to equate this type of non-percipient state with the noble paths and fruitions. Moreover, if one were to die while experiencing this non-percipient attainment the only possible result of this would be rebirth as non-percipient being (asaññasatta) without any functional mind or mental faculties. This is considered to be an inappropriate and inopportune plane (akkhaṇa bhūmi), because there is no possibility of practicing dhamma either within the non-perceptive absorption or as a non-percipient being reborn in such a realm. Both as a practice and a saṃsāric realm it arrests any possibility for mental development (bhāvanā).

The Pāḷi Tipiṭaka explicitly states -- in both the Suttapiṭaka and Abhidhammapiṭaka -- that the noble path and fruition cognitions must include perception (saññā). Therefore this notion of the noble paths and fruitions being devoid of perception is not the Pāḷi dhamma. It is the path of a deficient vehicle (hīnayāna) which should be avoided.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:15 pm
Title: Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique
Content:
This was written by Patrick Kearney who considered himself fit to criticize Jack Kornfield's A Path with Heart. I'm guessing that Kearney thinks that this "blackout emptiness" he's peddling is  "dhamma."

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:36 am
Title: Re: Is there an order I should be studying this material?
Content:
These are all quite good:

1) In the Buddha's Words
2) Mindfulness in Plain English
3) Beyond Mindfulness in Plain English
5) Living Dharma

I would also suggest The Teachings of Ajahn Chah.

It's a good idea to get an understanding of these before the Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:08 am
Title: Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique
Content:
Here is how the path is developed according to the canon: dissatisfaction (dukkha) → faith (saddhā) → gladness (pāmojja) → joy (pīti) → tranquility (passaddhi) → pleasure (sukha) → meditative composure (samādhi) → gnosis &amp; vision of things as they are (yathābhūtañāṇadassana) → disenchantment (nibbidā) → dispassion (virāga) → liberation (vimutti) → gnosis of elimination (khayeñāṇa).

No need for “pitch-black emptiness.” No need for “non-experience.” And certainly no cause for thinking that “pitch-black emptiness” is the goal of the noble path. Your nihilistic view is no more sustainable than the eternalistic view held by the “nibbāna is the luminous mind” people, or the “nibbāna is a truly existing transcendental realm” people.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:57 pm
Title: Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique
Content:
The gnosis of the elimination of passion, aggression, and delusion is known. It's called the gnosis of nibbāna (nibbāna ñāṇa), the gnosis of elimination (khayeñāṇa), the gnosis and vision of liberation (vimuttiñāṇadassana), and so on.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:13 am
Title: Re: The Dhyani Buddhas?
Content:
Yes, Ven. Thrangu Rinpoche is a reliable source. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:59 am
Title: Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique
Content:
The suttas define and describe the goal in sufficient terms. The difficulty in this discussion relates to whether one accepts what the canon states about the fruition of the path, or alternatively, accepts much later commentarial interpretations of the "path-moment" and "fruition-moment" as re-interpreted by a few 20th century Burmese monks. Without sufficient common ground for discussion there isn't much possibility of meaningful dialogue.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:16 am
Title: Re: The Dhyani Buddhas?
Content:
While you're awaiting replies from the sister site, here is a bit of background from an old post. The notion(s) of buddhahood in Mahāyāna is itself a rather diverse subject. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:00 pm
Title: Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique
Content:
It's the reification of "The Unconditioned" which leads to these appeals of ineffability. But this has been discussed previously at length.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:43 pm
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
With care and introspection. Of course, being blunt should be the exception, not the rule. It should go without saying that it's generally far more appropriate to remain genteel or opt for silence.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:58 pm
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Yep. When defilements arise I'm aware of them. I'm also not adverse to calling a spade a spade. Sometimes it helps clear the air. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:52 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
This is the type of analysis which has no basis in the canon, and which leads to your problematic version of "The Unconditioned." The classical Mahāvihāra two truth hermeneutic is deeply flawed -- resulting in either an eternalistic or nihilistic view. We see numerous variations on these extremes playing out all over this forum and amongst many Theravāda teachers as well. The aggregate scheme is mere designation (paññattimatta). The aggregates are not to be taken as "the ultimately existent given." With the elimination of passion, aggression, and delusion the mind is measureless (appamāṇacetasa). There is no criterion or measurement (pamāṇa) which can be used as a reference point to define a measureless cognition.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:45 am
Title: Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique
Content:
The way to get there is the noble eightfold path, which is to be developed. The elimination of passion, the elimination of aggression, the elimination of delusion is the fruition of the path, which is to be realized. "Nibbāna" is a figurative term relating to this elimination using the metaphor of fire and fuel. Both the path and the fruition are sufficiently defined and explained in the canonical teachings. Thus, in the context of the realization of nibbāna there's really no need for appeals to ineffability.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:58 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Are you suggesting that deluded cognitions conceive things in terms other than existence or non-existence?

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:53 am
Title: Re: DO not depending on avijja and sankhara?
Content:
This is still where the main action is -- where "the rubber meets the road" so to speak. Feeling is the link in the standard forward sequence of conditioned arising where we can readily access and begin to apply the applications of mindfulness in order to begin to understand the four noble truths and orient our practice accordingly (Cf. M i 270, page 360 of MLDB). The writings of Ven. Ñāṇananda are really just a corrective for a few common sidetracks.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:26 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Ven. Bodhi is following Ven. Ñāṇamoli's use of "being" in the translated edition of the Middle Length Discourses. In his subsequent translation of the Connected Discourses of the Buddha Ven. Bodhi translates bhava as "existence." 

The point that I was trying to make in the last post was that deluded cognitions always conceive in terms of existence or non-existence, and that this is part of the problem which creates and re-creates a "world" and a "self." It's due to craving existence and grasping that consciousness is established and comes to growth. Of course, craving non-existence isn't acceptable either. Both of these mistaken compulsions are entwined within thickets of views which reify a self and objectify a world. In short, we are held captive by our infatuation with the very things that captivate us.

As MN 140 Dhātuvibhaṅga Sutta explains, an arahant doesn't form any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence:
One does not form any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence. Not forming any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence, he does not cling to anything in this world.

It's in this way that there is no clinging with regard to anything in the world. Ud 3.10 Loka Sutta:
Whatever ascetics or brāhmaṇas say that emancipation from existence is by means of existence, all of them are not liberated from existence, I say.

And whatever ascetics or brāhmaṇas say that escape from existence is by means of non-existence, all of them have not escaped from existence, I say.

Conceiving in ontological terms is ineffective and only reinforces underlying tendencies.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:06 pm
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
The Pāli of the first sentence is: so neva taṃ abhisaṅkharoti na abhisañcetayati bhavāya vā vibhavāya vā. 

bhava: existence
vibhava: non-existence
vā: or

The translation is mine. Compare the sense of the above with Ud 3.10 Loka Sutta:
Although becoming otherwise, the world is held by existence,
Afflicted by existence, yet delights in that very existence.
Where there is delight, there is fear.
What it fears is unsatisfactory.
This holy life is lived for the abandoning of that existence.

Whatever ascetics or brāhmaṇas say that emancipation from existence is by means of existence, all of them are not liberated from existence, I say.

And whatever ascetics or brāhmaṇas say that escape from existence is by means of non-existence, all of them have not escaped from existence, I say.

Some translators translate bhava as "becoming," which highlights the point that existence is a process without any fixed entity. There is nothing wrong with translating it as such, but I prefer to translate the term as "existence." As the 10th link of conditioned arising (paṭiccasamuppāda) bhava is clearly defined in a number of suttas as the three realms: sensual existence, form existence, and formless existence (kāmabhava, rūpabhava, arūpabhava).

The forward sequence of conditioned arising is always a description of deluded cognition and the consequence of deluded cognition, which is unsatisfactoriness (dukkha). As DN 22 explains, craving sensual pleasure (kāmataṇhā), craving existence (bhavataṇhā), and craving non-existence (vibhavataṇhā) are the origin of unsatisfactoriness (dukkhasamudaya), and the cessation of unsatisfactoriness (dukkhanirodha) is the elimination of that very craving.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:34 pm
Title: Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique
Content:
Nonsense. Nibbāna is explicitly and clearly defined in the canon as the elimination of passion, aggression, and delusion. SN 38.1 Nibbānapañhā Sutta:
“‘Nibbāna, nibbāna,’ friend Sāriputta, it is said. What now is nibbāna?”

“The elimination of passion, the elimination of aggression, the elimination of delusion: this, friend, is called nibbāna.”

And the nibbāna component with fuel remaining (saupādisesa nibbānadhātu) is defined in exactly the same terms in Itivuttaka 2.44 Nibbānadhātu Sutta:
And what is the nibbāna component with fuel remaining? There is the case where a monk is an arahant whose outflows have ended, who has reached fulfillment, finished the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, ended the fetter of existence, and is liberated through right gnosis. His five sense faculties still remain and, owing to their being intact, he is cognizant of the agreeable and the disagreeable, and experiences pleasure and pain. His elimination of passion, aggression, and delusion is termed the nibbāna component with fuel remaining.

Nothing whatsoever to do with a "state" or "pitch-black emptiness."

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:12 pm
Title: Re: Pitch-black emptiness and Mahasi Sayadaw technique
Content:
Nibbāna isn't a "state."

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:04 pm
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Yikes. Thickets of views by any other name. . . .


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:31 am
Title: Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?
Content:
It's also something of a leap to suggest that all of the people practicing or teaching within any one tradition are on the same page. "Traditions" are conceptual frameworks engaged by individual mental continuums.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:21 pm
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
SN 12.61 Assutavantu Sutta: "But what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another. Just as a monkey, swinging through a forest wilderness, grabs a branch. Letting go of it, it grabs another branch. Letting go of that, it grabs another one. Letting go of that, it grabs another one. In the same way, what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another."

When the underlying tendencies and outflows have been eliminated upon awakening there is gnosis of elimination (khayeñāṇa). After this there are no underlying tendencies associated with an arahant's mind-stream.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:59 pm
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Yes.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:36 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
A PM which was an exact copy of this post, with the reason for sending it: in case the post was deleted by the mods due to my choice of language. 

At any rate, you may be a fine lawyer but the dhamma isn't an adversarial system. I'm not interested in your version of sutta interpretation, just as I'm not interested in Sujato's version or Brahmavamso's version or Daniel Ingram's version. It's nothing personal, I'm simply not interested.

 

Be well.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:46 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
I have no time for you bud. Is that not clear? I have zero interest in discussing anything else with you. Your views on virtually every subject are so far out there that they don't even remotely resemble the Buddhadhamma. To point out and clarify each of your interpretive errors in this thread alone would take far more time and effort than I'm willing to invest. You're entirely free to invent your own religion and call it whatever you like, but I'm not interested.

There's a reason why I don't visit Sujato's blog or Brahmavamso's forum or Daniel Ingram's forum: I have no interest in what these people are presenting as "dhamma."


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:35 am
Title: Re: Phassa (contact)
Content:
I think this is an accurate assessment.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:10 am
Title: Re: Phassa (contact)
Content:
We've been touching (pun intended) upon this in the Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering? thread. The terms used in the Bāhiya Sutta are: merely the seen (diṭṭhamatta), merely the heard (sutamatta), merely the sensed (mutamatta), merely the known (viññātamatta). 

From a suttanta perspective, when all acquisitions have been released (i.e. sabbūpadhipaṭinissagga) there is no need to designate "contact." Udāna 2.4 (Ud 12):
Contacts make contact
Dependent on acquisition.
Where there is no acquisition,
What would contacts contact?

The abhidhamma schools however, explain all cognitions in terms of contact -- including supramundane cognitions. The necessity of attention and apperception in the cognitive process is one of the reasons why most abhidhamma schools (except for the Yogācāra) only allow for one of the six types of consciousness to occur at any given time. Thus, even if one's eyes and ears are "open," most of what one experiences occurs through mental-consciousness (manoviññāṇa). This is the case even when engaging a visible form or a sound or a tactual object, etc. There is a momentary occurrence of the bare object via the corresponding sense consciousness, and then the mind adverts to mental consciousness to ascertain the characteristics of what is being perceived. But this doesn't mean that the eye-faculty stops functioning and one cannot see.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:45 am
Title: Re: Phassa (contact)
Content:
Yes it's possible. MN 28 Mahāhatthipadopama Sutta:
Now if internally the eye is intact but externally forms do not come into range, nor is there a corresponding engagement, then there is no appearing of the corresponding type of consciousness. If internally the eye is intact and externally forms come into range, but there is no corresponding engagement, then there is no appearing of the corresponding type of consciousness. But when internally the eye is intact and externally forms come into range, and there is a corresponding engagement, then there is the appearing of the corresponding type of consciousness.

For sensory consciousness to "arise" there needs to be samannāhāra: "corresponding engagement." This is generally considered to be attention (manasikāra). Someone can be lost in thought, or reading a book, or meditating, and not hear nor see things presently occurring around them, because there is no corresponding engagement or act-of-attention.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:29 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
This is what I've been saying -- the sutta which defines saupādisesa nibbānadhātu refers to the faculties, not the aggregates. The suttas in the Saṃyuttanikāya which describe the Buddha's experience of seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, etc., refer to the faculties, not the aggregates. I'm not interested in hanging my hat on any thesis based on the omission of the aggregate scheme in these contexts, but it's worth noting.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:35 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Well, I'd suggest that this amounts to measuring and classifying the arahant in terms of the aggregates. Also, the aggregate scheme isn't necessary to account for awakened experience. And as I've previously mentioned, the suttas do not use the aggregate classification when referring to the Buddha or an arahant. They use the faculties classification. The suttas never equate the aggregates with the sense spheres or the faculties. Given the definition of the fabrications aggregate as volitional intention pertaining to the six objects (e.g. SN 22.56 Upādānaparivatta Sutta), there may be good reason for this. MN 140 Dhātuvibhaṅga Sutta:
One does not form any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence. Not forming any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence, he does not cling to anything in this world.

SN 22.79 Khajjanīya Sutta also has some interesting things to say about the aggregates.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:36 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
I think that there are numerous sutta references to the awakened mind which explain what is not the foundation of an arahant's experience. Firstly, by way of training: The seen is merely the seen (diṭṭhamatta). The heard is merely the heard (sutamatta). The sensed is merely the sensed (mutamatta). The known is merely the known (viññātamatta). Ud 1.10 Bāhiya Sutta:
‘The seen will be merely the seen, the heard will be merely the heard, the sensed will be merely the sensed, the known will be merely the known.’ This is how you should train, Bāhiya.

When, Bāhiya, for you the seen will be merely the seen, the heard will be merely the heard, the sensed will be merely the sensed, the known will be merely the known, then Bāhiya, you will not be that. When, Bāhiya, you are not that, then Bāhiya, you will not be there. When, Bāhiya, you are not there, then Bāhiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor between-the-two. Just this is the end of unsatisfactoriness.

Secondly, the absence of specific fabrication (abhisaṅkharoti) or volitional intention (abhisañcetayati) towards either existence or non-existence. MN 140 Dhātuvibhaṅga Sutta:
One does not form any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence. Not forming any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence, he does not cling to anything in this world. Not clinging, he is not excited. Unexcited, he personally attains complete nibbāna. He discerns that, ‘Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, done is what had to be done, there is nothing further here.’

Cf. Ven. Ñāṇananda, Nibbāna Sermon 04:
What is called the cessation of consciousness has a deeper sense here. It means the cessation of the specifically prepared consciousness, abhisaṅkhata viññāṇa. An arahant's experience of the cessation of consciousness is at the same time the experience of the cessation of name-and-form.

And Nibbāna Sermon 06:
The more one sees preparations (saṅkhāras) as preparations, ignorance is dispelled, and the more one dispels ignorance, the preparations lose their significance as preparations. Then one sees the nature of preparations with wisdom as signless, desireless, and void. So much so that, in effect, preparations cease to be preparations.... The relation of saṅkhāras to ignorance is somewhat similar to the relation a drama has to its back-stage preparations. It seems, then, that from the standpoint of Dhamma the entire saṃsāra is a product of specifically prepared intentions, even like the drama with its back-stage preparations....

The phrase saṅkhataṃ paṭiccasamuppannaṃ (e.g. M III 299), 'prepared and dependently arisen', suggests that the prepared nature is also due to that contact. What may be called abhisaṅkhata viññāṇa (S III 58), 'specifically prepared consciousness', is that sort of consciousness which gets attached to name-and-form. When one sees a film show, one interprets a scene appearing on the screen according to one's likes and dislikes. It becomes a thing of experience for him. Similarly, by imagining a self in name-and-form, consciousness gets attached to it. It is such a consciousness, which is established on name-and-form, that can be called abhisaṅkhata viññāṇa. Then could there be also a consciousness which does not reflect a name-and-form? Yes, there could be. That is what is known as anidassana viññāṇa, or 'non-manifestative consciousness'.

And thirdly, consciousness which is unestablished (appatiṭṭha viññāṇa). SN 22.53 Upaya Sutta:
When that consciousness is unestablished, not increasing, not concocting, it is liberated. Being liberated, it is steady. Being steady, it is content. Being content, he is not excited. Unexcited, he personally attains complete nibbāna. He discerns that, ‘Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, done is what had to be done, there is nothing further here.’

As for the qualm that this last passage refers to the death of an arahant, the phrase: "Unexcited, he personally attains complete nibbāna. He discerns that, 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, done is what had to be done, there is nothing further here,'" is the standard paricope referring to the time of awakening, i.e. a statement of the attainment of arahant fruition (e.g. DN 15, MN 105, etc.), and not the time of death of an arahant.

The above passages referring to the cognition of an arahant are succinctly presented in AN 4.24 Kāḷakārāma Sutta:
Thus, monks, the Tathāgata does not conceive an [object] seen when seeing what is to be seen. He does not conceive an unseen. He does not conceive a to-be-seen. He does not conceive a seer.

He does not conceive an [object] heard when hearing what is to be heard. He does not conceive an unheard. He does not conceive a to-be-heard. He does not conceive a hearer.

He does not conceive an [object] sensed when sensing what is to be sensed. He does not conceive an unsensed. He does not conceive a to-be-sensed. He does not conceive a senser. 

He does not conceive an [object] known when knowing what is to be known. He does not conceive an unknown. He does not conceive a to-be-known. He does not conceive a knower.

Ven. Ñāṇananda considered the Kāḷakārāma Sutta important enough to write a text on it.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:17 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
I have no more time for you bud. Zero.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:30 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Your reading of the relevant suttas is mistaken. Yet once again you're running off at the mouth without having the foggiest idea of what Ven. Ñāṇananda and Ven. Bodhi and Ven. Ṭhānissaro are indicating.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:58 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
The only one I see here who is attempting to reify anything is you with your penchant for jumping to fallacious conclusions. Do you not know of any other way to communicate besides the very lame tactic of reduction to the absurd and the equally lame tactic of the fallacy of distraction? Life is far too short to engage in such bullshit games.


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:09 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
I'm not insisting on anything. There isn't really any advantage to this entire line of investigation. I personally consider Ven. Ñāṇananda and Ven. Ñāṇavīra's interpretations to be reasonable and appropriate in the current climate of mainstream Theravāda philosophical realism. Thus, it's something of a countermeasure -- just as Nāgārjuna was a countermeasure to similar trends in antiquity. To paraphrase Ven. Ñāṇananda, it's too bad that Nāgārjuna's followers had to turn it into a Vāda. It's possible that some of Ñāṇavīra's followers are trying to do the same. I don't see the point. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:55 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Sure. It's quite obvious that an arahant still has the six faculties and still dies.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:33 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Again, you're free to analyze however you see fit. I don't see the relevance or the utility in this line of inquiry. The path has been fabricated in order to reach the fruition, not to speculate about the fruition.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:28 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Already addressed here. In brief, when all acquisitions have been released (i.e. sabbūpadhipaṭinissagga) there is no need to designate "contact." Udāna 2.4 (Ud 12):
Contacts make contact
Dependent on acquisition.
Where there is no acquisition,
What would contacts contact?

Both Ven. Ñāṇananda and Ven. Ñāṇavīra have understood this correctly.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:31 pm
Title: Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?
Content:
Yes, we can and should. A Path With Heart is not the final word on Buddhist Practice. It does, however, offer some valuable suggestions and approaches for working with hindrances and other difficulties at various stages of practice, especially for Western householders. One may find the view presented in the book to be diluted, and I would agree. But this isn't unique to Kornfield. As just one example, I've attended Zen retreats where the forms were all well preserved, but the Dharma talks weren't any different from what someone like Wayne Dyer might offer. Not exactly my cup of tea. But at the end of the day, one gets out of one's practice what one puts into it.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:13 pm
Title: Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?
Content:
There are also some skills which should be developed before undertaking a 3 mo. retreat intensive. These have to do with developing a good foundation of ethical conduct (sīla), renunciation (nekkhamma), and meditative composure (samādhi). The latter including the development of calm (samathabhāvanā) as well as the development of loving-kindness (mettābhāvanā). Ven. Ṭhānissaro, One Tool Among Many: The Place of Vipassanā in Buddhist Practice:
This program for developing vipassanā and samatha, in turn, needs the support of many other attitudes, mental qualities, and techniques of practice. This was why the Buddha taught it as part of a still larger program, including respect for the noble ones, mastery of all seven approaches for abandoning the mental fermentations, and all eight factors of the noble path. To take a reductionist approach to the practice can produce only reduced results, for meditation is a skill like carpentry, requiring a mastery of many tools in response to many different needs. To limit oneself to only one approach in meditation would be like trying to build a house when one's motivation is uncertain and one's tool box contains nothing but hammers.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:46 pm
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
If you follow the noble eightfold path to its fruition and thereby eliminate passion, aggression, and delusion, then you'll have your answer. In the meantime, Ven. Ñāṇananda's Nibbāna Sermons will have to suffice:
Now as to this vacant gaze, there is much to be said, though one might think that it is not at all worth discussing about. If someone asks us: 'What is the object of the gaze of one with such a vacant gaze', what shall we say? The vacant gaze is, in fact, not established anywhere (appatiṭṭham). It has no existence (appavattaṃ) and it is object-less (anārammaṇaṃ). Even at the mention of these three terms, appatiṭṭham, appavattaṃ and anārammaṇaṃ, some might recall those highly controversial discourses on Nibbāna.

Why do we call the vision of the arahant a vacant gaze? At the highest point of the development of the three characteristics impermanence, suffering and not-self, that is, through the three deliverances animitta, appaṇihita and suññata, the "signess", the "undirected" and the "void", the arahant is now looking at the object with a penetrative gaze. That is why it is not possible to say what he is looking at. It is a gaze that sees the cessation of the object, a gaze that penetrates the object, as it were.

Also, SN 12.64: "Where consciousness does not become established and come to growth, there is no decent of name-and-form." (Yattha appatiṭṭhitaṃ viññāṇaṃ avirūḷhaṃ, natthi tattha nāmarūpassa avakkanti.) Ven. Bodhi's endnote:
The present passage is clearly speaking of the arahant's consciousness while he is alive. Its purport is not that an "unestablished consciousness" remains after the arahant's parinibbāna, but that his consciousness, being devoid of lust, does not "become established in" the four nutriments in any way that might generate a future existence.

As for my rendering of "unestablished" (appatiṭṭha) as an adjective for a "consciousness which does not become established," this is in keeping with the sense of the above from Ven. Ñāṇananda. One could designate it as mental-consciousness (manoviññāṇa), as per MN 38: "[W]hen consciousness arises dependent on the mind and mind-objects, it is reckoned as mind-consciousness." This is what the early ābhidhammikas have decided, adding that said mental-consciousness is classified within the unincluded level (apariyāpanna bhūmi). That's fine by me, but doesn't really convey the full meaning of Ven. Ñāṇananda's interpretation of SN 12.64 and Udāna 8.1 (PTS Ud 80).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:53 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Sure, an arahant has a body. But an arahant is also utterly freed from reference/classification/reckoning in terms of form (rūpasaṅkhayavimutta). The same is the case for the other aggregates.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:46 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Well, I'll defer that question to the arahants. SN 6.7 Kokālika Sutta:
What wise man here would seek to define
A measureless one by taking his measure?
He who would measure a measureless one
Must be, I think, an obstructed worldling.

One can talk about an arahants experience in terms of phenomenological description, but I'm not sure what purpose it would serve? Historically, it's lead to numerous thickets of views. Better to develop the path and then taste the fruit for oneself. The gnosis and vision of liberation (vimuttiñāṇadassana) -- non-referential inner peace (ajjhattasanti) -- is to be individually experienced (paccatta veditabba). The path is to be developed to this end.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:35 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
The all is to be abandoned. The path is to be developed in order to abandon the all. The path is entirely 100% fabricated for that specific purpose. The raft is for crossing over, not for carrying around once crossed over, and certainly not for constructing philosophies.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:53 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
What bare mechanics? Phenomenological description? That's mere designation. Some of this issue has been touched upon here. In short:
Sense-objects are therefore signs which have become significant in themselves owing to our ignorance that their significance depends on the psychological mainsprings of lust, hatred and delusion. This, in other words, is a result of reasoning from the wrong end (ayoniso manasikāra) which leads both the philosopher and the scientist alike into a topsy-turvydom of endless theorising.

Contact was also touched upon  here.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:19 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Ven. Ñāṇananda gets it. The aggregate scheme is mere designation (paññattimatta). The classical Mahāvihāra two truth hermeneutic is deeply flawed -- resulting in either an eternalistic or nihilistic view. We also see variations on these extremes playing out all over this forum and amongst many Theravāda teachers as well. The aggregates are not to be taken as "the given." Nor is contact. With the elimination of passion, aggression, and delusion the mind is measureless (appamāṇacetasa). There is no criterion or measurement (pamāṇa) which can be used as a reference point to define a measureless cognition. SN 6.7 Kokālika Sutta:
What wise man here would seek to define
A measureless one by taking his measure?
He who would measure a measureless one
Must be, I think, an obstructed worldling.

In evocative terms, one who is awake is deep (gambhīra), boundless (appameyya), and fathomless (duppariyogāḷha) -- utterly free from any reference to specifically fabricated consciousness (viññāṇasaṅkhayavimutta). "Gone" (atthaṅgata), the measureless mind is not dependent (anissita) on any findable support, and therefore, is untraceable (ananuvejja) here and now. MN 22 Alagaddūpama Sutta:
Monks, when the gods with Indra, with Brahmā and with Pajāpati seek a monk who is thus liberated in mind, they do not find [anything of which they could say], “The tathāgata’s consciousness is dependent on this.” Why is that? A tathāgata, I say, is untraceable even here and now.

Elsewhere this non-abiding mind is designated as "unestablished consciousness" (appatiṭṭha viññāṇa). Ven. Ñāṇananda gets it.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:54 pm
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
It's AN 4.171 Cetanā Sutta:
In all these states, monks, ignorance is involved. But with the complete fading away and cessation of ignorance, there is no longer that body, speech or mind conditioned by which pleasure and pain may arise in oneself. There is no longer a field, a site, a base or a foundation conditioned by which pleasure and pain may arise in oneself.*
Ven. Ñāṇapoṇika's endnote:
*This refers to an arahant. Though he too engages in bodily, verbal, and mental activity, the volition responsible for these activities does not produce any kamma-result.
All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:52 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Sure. But somewhere in the Aṅguttaranikāya there is a sutta which explains that with the remainderless passing away and cessation of ignorance there is no longer a fabricated body, voice, or mind conditioned by which pleasure or pain arise internally. My guess would be that this means that an arahant doesn't generate either kusala or akusala kamma -- all actions would then be kiriya.

At any rate, I haven't been paying attention to what it is that you guys are debating so I'll step aside.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:40 am
Title: Re: Do arahants discard vipaka/suffering?
Content:
Paṭiccasamuppāda has to be understood in both forward and reverse sequence. That is dhamma. The forward sequence beginning with ignorance is no longer applicable when ignorance has been eliminated.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:16 pm
Title: Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?
Content:
For example, see here or here or here or here, etc.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:45 am
Title: Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?
Content:
Yes. Of course. It applies to the Mahāyāna as well.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:40 am
Title: Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?
Content:
Both Goldstein and Kornfield have been able to see through the dense layers of conceptual nonsense which hang over Theravāda Buddhism and are accepted as literal facts by far too many modern, well educated Western practitioners who really should do a better job of learning the teachings and not be so gullible. This is to their credit. Both are fine teachers.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:24 pm
Title: Re: Conditioning.
Content:
Indeed. Apparently the canonical definition of nibbāna as the elimination of passion, aggression, and delusion isn't good enough.... Of course, this is nothing new. There's a long history of seeking out new and novel definitions of nibbāna in all Buddhist schools. In Metaphor and Literalism in Buddhism: The Doctrinal History of Nirvana, Soonil Hwang states:
[N]ew etymologies of nirvana seems to have started at the time when the extinction of the triple fires of passion, hatred and delusion was still used and accepted as the definition of nirvana, while its metaphorical structure had started to be forgotten. Without an understanding of its metaphorical structure, the original definition of nirvana could not satisfy later Buddhists, since it did not cover all aspects of their highest goal.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:20 pm
Title: Re: Samadhi leading to knowledge and vision?
Content:
Ven. Anālayo, From Craving to Liberation: Excursions into the Thought-world of the Pāli Discourses:
A prominent antidote to sloth-and-torpor, mentioned on frequent occasions in the Pāli discourses, is the development of "perception of light," ālokasaññā, together with mindfulness and clear comprehension (e.g. DN I 71). Some discourses associate the expression "perception of light" with a mind that is "open," vivaṭa, and "uncovered," apariyonaddha, by day and by night, and indicate that such "perception of light" will lead to knowledge and vision (DN III 223). This suggests the expression "perception of light" to refer to the development of mental clarity.

Such a way of understanding finds support in the Vibhaṅga, which glosses "perception of light" as a perception that is "open," vivaṭa, "pure," parisuddha, and "clean," pariyodāta (Vibh 254).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:59 pm
Title: Re: Luminous Mind. - What is it?
Content:
IMO "discernment" is a better translation than "wisdom," which is more akin to ñāṇa in most contexts.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:52 am
Title: Re: Luminous Mind. - What is it?
Content:
Indeed. It's far less problematic to regard "luminosity" as a metaphor. SN 1.13 Natthiputtasama Sutta:
Natthi paññāsamā ābhā. 

There is no radiance comparable to discernment.

AN 4.141 Ābhā Sutta:
Catasso imā bhikkhave ābhā. Katamā catasso? Candābhā, suriyābhā, aggābhā, paññābhā. Imā kho bhikkhave catasso ābhā. Etadaggaṃ bhikkhave imāsaṃ catassannaṃ ābhānaṃ yadidaṃ paññābhāti.

Monks, there are these four radiances. What four? The radiance of the moon, the radiance of the sun, the radiance of fire, and the radiance of discernment. These, monks, are the four radiances. This, monks, is the highest among these four radiances, namely the radiance of discernment.

AN 4.142 Pabhā Sutta:
Catasso imā, bhikkhave, pabhā. Katamā catasso? Candappabhā, sūriyappabhā, aggippabhā, paññappabhā. Imā kho, bhikkhave, catasso pabhā. Etadaggaṃ, bhikkhave, imāsaṃ catunnaṃ pabhānaṃ, yad idaṃ paññappabhā.

Monks, there are these four lustres. What four? The lustre of the moon, the lustre of the sun, the lustre of fire, and the lustre of discernment. These, monks, are the four lustres. This, monks, is the highest among these four lustres, namely the lustre of discernment.

AN 4.143 Āloka Sutta:
Cattārome bhikkhave ālokā. Katame cattāro: Candāloko, suriyāloko, aggāloko, paññāloko. Ime kho bhikkhave cattāro ālokā. Etadaggaṃ bhikkhave imesaṃ catunnaṃ ālokānaṃ yadidaṃ paññālokoti.

Monks, there are these four lights. What four? The light of the moon, the light of the sun, the light of fire, and the light of discernment. These, monks, are the four lights. This, monks, is the highest among these four lights, namely the light of discernment.

AN 4.144 Obhāsa Sutta:
Cattārome bhikkhave obhāsā. Katame cattāro? Candobhāso, suriyobhāso, aggobhāso, paññobhāso. Ime kho bhikkhave cattāro obhāsā. Etadaggaṃ bhikkhave imesaṃ catunnaṃ obhāsānaṃ yadidaṃ paññobhāsoti.

Monks, there are these four brightnesses. What four? The brightness of the sun, the brightness of the moon, the brightness of fire, and the brightness of discernment. These, monks, are the four brightnesses. This, monks, is the highest among these four brightnesses, namely the brightness of discernment.

Of course, this probably won't stop people from opting for literal interpretations of the "light" of discernment. But any "light" that one perceives is necessarily conditioned, impermanent, unsatisfactory, and not-self. It is to be abandoned along the way, not taken up as the fruition of the path.

All the best,

Geoff

Edit: typo.


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:19 am
Title: Re: Goldstein, Kornfield and One Buddhism - what's missing?
Content:
Indeed it is. I read A Path With Heart when it first came out about 20 years ago, and found it helpful. I still recommend it and Seeking the Heart of Wisdom (co-authored with Goldstein) to people who are interested in practice.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:47 am
Title: Re: Happy Birthday Dmytro!!
Content:



Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:40 am
Title: Re: Before Nirvana Extremely painfull sensations.
Content:
What are your sources for interpretation of the eighteen insight-gnoses?

Also, with reference to the general topic of this thread: I've come to appreciate the benefits of what I consider to be a somewhat more balanced approach to intensive practice, i.e. focusing on developing calm (samatha) and skillful affective practices such as the brahmavihāras and buddhānussati, in addition to insight practice. But having done numerous intensive retreats (up to 6 mo. in duration), my experience has been that intensive practice can run the full spectrum from times of elation and joy and gratitude to those of deep sadness, fear, boredom, and even physical pain. Over the years these extremes do begin to even out, but I doubt that anyone can intensively engage in this process without experiencing discomfort on various levels and shedding a few tears along the way.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:31 am
Title: Re: Before Nirvana Extremely painfull sensations.
Content:
The underlying structure of the eighteen insight-ñāṇa-s as presented in the Paṭisambhidāmagga can be traced to the suttas. They are termed "contemplation" (anupassanā) and "gnosis of contemplation" (anupassanāñāṇa) in the Paṭisambhidāmagga, and are either termed "recognition" (saññā) or "contemplation" (anupassanā) in the suttas. The most well known sutta source is the fourth tetrad of the Ānāpānassati Sutta: contemplation of impermanence (aniccānupassana), contemplation of dispassion (virāgānupassana), contemplation of cessation (nirodhānupassanā), contemplation of release (paṭinissaggānupassana). Other suttas expand on this structure:
AN 10.60 (PTS A v 108): Recognition of impermanence (aniccasaññā) 
AN 7.49 (ATI 7.46, PTS A iv 46)
AN 7.95 (PTS A iv 145)
SN 46.71 (PTS S v 132, CDB 1620)

AN 7.49 (ATI 7.46, PTS A iv 46): Recognition of unsatisfactoriness in what is impermanent (anicca dukkhasaññā)
AN 7.96 (PTS A iv 146)
SN 46.72 (PTS S v 132, CDB 1620) 

AN 10.60 (PTS A v 108): Recognition of selflessness (anattasaññā)
AN 7.49 (ATI 7.46, PTS A iv 46): Recognition of selflessness in what is unsatisfactory (dukkha anattasaññā)
AN 7.97 (PTS A iv 146)
SN 46.73 (PTS S v 133, CDB 1620)

AN 7.98 (PTS A iv 146): Recognition of decay (khayasaññā)

AN 7.99 (PTS A iv 146): Recognition of passing away (vayasaññā)

AN 10.60 PTS A v 108: Recognition of dispassion (virāgasaññā)
AN 7.100 (PTS A iv 146)
SN 46.75 (PTS S v 133, CDB 1621)

AN 10.60 (PTS A v 108): Recognition of cessation (nirodhasaññā)
AN 7.101 (PTS A iv 146)
SN 46.76 (PTS S v 133, CDB 1621)

AN 7.102 (PTS A iv 146): Recognition of release (paṭinissaggasaññā)

Cf. the eighteen insight-ñāṇa-s as presented in the Paṭisambhidāmagga:
(1) contemplation of impermanence (aniccānupassanā), (2) contemplation of unsatisfactoriness (dukkhānupassanā), (3) contemplation of selflessness (anattānupnupassanā), (4) contemplation of disenchantment (nibbidānupassanā), (5) contemplation of dispassion (virāgānupassanā), (6) contemplation of cessation (nirodhānupassanā), (7) contemplation of release (paṭinissaggānupassanāā), (8) contemplation of decay (khayānupassanā), (9) contemplation of passing away (vayānupassanā), (10) contemplation of change (vipariṇāmānupassanā), (11) contemplation of signlessness (animittānupassanā), (12) contemplation of desirelessness (apaṇihitānupassanā), (13) contemplation of emptiness (suññatāupassanā), (14) clear seeing of dhamma with heightened discernment (adhipaññādhammavipassanā), (15) gnosis and vision of things as they are (yathābhūtañāṇadassana), (16) contemplation of misery/danger (ādīnavānupassanā), (17) reflexive contemplation (paṭisaṅkhānupassanā), (18) contemplation of turning away (vivaṭṭanānupassanā).

Thus, the Paṭisambhidāmagga is just an elaboration of suttanta materials. Of course, what the Paṭisambhidāmagga presents is not the same as the Visuddhimagga, which again reformulates these 18 contemplations and interprets phenomena according to the theory of radical momentariness. And it's possible that modern Burmese based interpretations of the insight-gnoses may not fully reflect what is presented in the Visuddhimagga.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:51 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Ven. Bodhi translates kāma (singular) as "sensual pleasure." Based on the Pāli and Sanskrit for kāma this is accurate. Better than "sensuality." At any rate, there is no point in pursuing this discussion any further. I'm following Dmytro's lead and retiring. Be well.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:14 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
It is precisely what the Dhammasaṅgaṇī says. Once again, there is no need for novel hermeneutic cartwheels....

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:07 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Your interpretation of SN 36.6 remains novel and unsupported by anything other than your own hermeneutic cartweels.  

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:01 am
Title: Re: The Commentaries are unreliable: I know better
Content:
The main Abhidhammapiṭaka commentaries (Aṭṭhakathā) are traditionally attributed to Buddhaghosa. However, some modern scholars have questioned attributing these commentaries to Buddhaghosa.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:30 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Again, it's quite apparent that you don't know what you're talking about. The pītisukha of jhāna can definitely become an object of deep attachment. Especially for anyone who has a predisposition for addiction. It's far better than any drug. And if one knows how to induce it, it's free. It can be so utterly blissful that theist yogis think it's union with god. In terms of the ten fetters, any attachment to the four jhānas is included under the fetter of passion for form (rūparāga).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:02 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
As already indicated, the seven factors of awakening are a model of the conditioned process explaining how right mindfulness, right effort/right exertion, and right samādhi are to be developed and integrated. The process model of the seven factors of awakening is directly related to the process model of the four jhānas. Insight can be developed at every stage of the seven factors of awakening, and therefore in every jhāna. In fact, there can be no gnosis without it. SN 46.71 Anicca Sutta:
Monks, when the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated, it is of great fruit and benefit.

And how, monks, is the perception of impermanence developed and cultivated so that it is of great fruit and benefit? Here, monks, a monk develops the awakening factor of mindfulness accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of dhamma-investigation accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of energy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of joy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of tranquility accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of concentration accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the enlightenment factor of equanimity accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. It is in this way that the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it is of great fruit and benefit.

Monks, when the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated, one of two fruits is to be expected: either final gnosis in this very life or, if there is a residue of clinging, the state of nonreturning.

And how, monks, is the perception of impermanence developed and cultivated so that one of two fruits is to be expected: either final gnosis in this very life or, if there is a residue of clinging, the state of nonreturning? Here, monks, a monk develops the enlightenment factor of mindfulness accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of dhamma-investigation accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of energy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of joy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of tranquility accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of concentration accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the enlightenment factor of equanimity accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. It is in this way that the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that one of two fruits is to be expected: either final gnosis in this very life or, if there is a residue of clinging, the state of nonreturning.

Monks, when the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated, it leads to great good.

And how, monks, is the perception of impermanence developed and cultivated so that it leads to great good? Here, monks, a monk develops the enlightenment factor of mindfulness accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of dhamma-investigation accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of energy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of joy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of tranquility accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of concentration accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the enlightenment factor of equanimity accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. It is in this way that the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to great good.

Monks, when the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated, it leads to great security from bondage.

And how, monks, is the perception of impermanence developed and cultivated so that it leads to great security from bondage? Here, monks, a monk develops the enlightenment factor of mindfulness accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of dhamma-investigation accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of energy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of joy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of tranquility accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of concentration accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the enlightenment factor of equanimity accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. It is in this way that the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to great security from bondage.

Monks, when the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated, it leads to a great sense of urgency.

And how, monks, is the perception of impermanence developed and cultivated so that it leads to a great sense of urgency? Here, monks, a monk develops the enlightenment factor of mindfulness accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of dhamma-investigation accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of energy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of joy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of tranquility accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of concentration accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the enlightenment factor of equanimity accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. It is in this way that the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to a great sense of urgency.

Monks, when the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated, it leads to dwelling in great comfort.

And how, monks, is the perception of impermanence developed and cultivated so that it leads to dwelling in great comfort? Here, monks, a monk develops the enlightenment factor of mindfulness accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of dhamma-investigation accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of energy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of joy accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of tranquility accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of concentration accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. He develops the enlightenment factor of equanimity accompanied by the perception of impermanence, based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in letting go. It is in this way that the perception of impermanence is developed and cultivated so that it leads to dwelling in great comfort.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:54 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Well, I doubt that there is only one pathway to pītisukha. Therefore, there isn't just one phenomenological description of the experience of pītisukha. Experientially speaking, pītisukha can certainly arise as waves of universal bliss coursing throughout the body. It can feel like passing through an invisible "membrane" wherein all sense of constriction is simply gone and the felt-sense of the inner body vastly expands along with waves of universal bliss. This pītisukha can begin in the chest area, or the solar plexus, or the forehead area, or along the lower spine, etc. It can feel like one's entire being is saturated with waves of cosmic deva-like love, or immeasurable universal compassion, or simply "bliss." It can be accompanied by light nimittas of different description (size, color, etc.). And it can certainly be characterized as "heavenly" or "divine." Anyone who has experienced this will understand the correlation between the jhānas and the cosmological brahma-worlds (brahmlakokas). But if one absorbs into any experience of pītisukha to the point of loss of comprehension then that is indulgent -- it no longer serves as an optimal condition for mental development (bhāvanā). And such indulgence can certainly be addictive. It can impede development whereby one gets stuck in a habitual pattern of "blissing-out."

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:05 am
Title: Re: The Commentaries are unreliable: I know better
Content:
Issues of inconsistencies and dubious interpretations present in the commentarial literature have been noted by various teachers, translators, and scholars, largely based on quite reasonable readings of the different historical strata of texts. But there is still plenty of middle ground between the two extremes of dogmatic allegiance to every commentarial word an letter on the one hand, and dogmatic wholesale rejection of all commentary on the other. As was already mentioned in the post which Robert quoted at the start of this thread: "The commentaries and the Visuddhimagga are not canonical. Moreover, the commentaries do not present a homogeneous doctrine. It's not uncommon to find multiple opinions presented regarding a particular canonical passage, etc. It's also not uncommon to find quite dubious etymologies of particular terms and an obvious lack of understanding of canonical metaphors, and so on. This is due to the commentaries being authored by people separated from the historical, geographical, and cultural situation of the early Buddhist community. This has been well documented by a number of translators and scholars. Therefore, while the commentaries are also important, they aren't of the same caliber as the Tipiṭaka."

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:36 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Well said.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:57 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Yes, but it's important to understand that what is designated as the mental body is not a disembodied experience. The experience of the whole body (sabba kāya) still includes a refined experience of the body. Peṭakopadesa 7.72:
The twofold bodily and mental pain does not arise in one steadied in directed thought and evaluation, and the twofold bodily and mental pleasure does arise. The mental pleasure thus produced from directed thought is joy, while the bodily pleasure is bodily feeling.

The Vimuttimagga:
Just as the bath-powder when inside and outside saturated with moisture, adheres and does not scatter, so the body of the meditator in the first jhāna is permeated with joy and pleasure from top to bottom, from the skullcap to the feet and from the feet to the skullcap, skin and hair, inside and outside. And he dwells without falling back. Thus he dwells like a Brahma god. 

[Q.] Joy (pīti) and pleasure (sukha) are said to be formless phenomena (arūpa-dhamma). How then can they stay permeating the body?

[A.] Name (nāma) depends on form (rūpa). Form depends on name. Therefore, if name has joy, form also has joy. If name has pleasure, form also has pleasure.

Again, form born from joy causes tranquility of body, and when the entire body is tranquillized there is pleasure due to the tranquility of form. 
Therefore there is no contradiction.

The Dīghanikāyaṭīkā:
Mind-produced form (cittajarūpa) suffuses every area where there is kamma-produced form (kammajarūpa).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:40 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Yes, this was already addressed. The seclusion from kāmehi in the jhāna formula refers to both the objects of sensual pleasure (vatthukāmā) and the defilements of sensual pleasure (kilesakāmā). In commentarial terms, the form portion of the "whole body" experienced in jhāna is mind-produced form which pervades the physical body. The Dīghanikāyaṭīkā:
Mind-produced form (cittajarūpa) suffuses every area where there is kamma-produced form (kammajarūpa).
This subtle felt-sense of the body being pervaded by pleasure (J1 &amp; J2) and by equanimity (J3 &amp; J4) is a part of the phenomenology of jhāna as an experience. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:32 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Of course. They develop. The purpose of sammāsamādhi is just this mental development (bhāvanā) which culminates in gnosis.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:34 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
There is no direct one-to-one correspondence between the three worlds (lokas) and the three spheres (avacaras) as classification schemes of related phenomena. A human being who abides in jhāna is still in the kāmaloka, but his or her mind and mental factors are not engaged with any phenomena which would give rise to sensual pleasure (kāma). This can lead to rebirth in the rūpaloka. Thus, the mind and mental factors (cittacetasikā) of rūpāvacarajjhāna are similar to the mind and mental factors of deities abiding in the rūpaloka, but abiding in rūpāvacarajjhāna doesn't mean that one has entered the rūpaloka.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:22 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
A quote transferred from another very old internet forum post.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:19 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
I rarely ever grumble.  But the heart of the matter is the assertion made by Ven. Brahmavamso and his associates that he is teaching the Buddha's sammāsamādhi, and that most everyone else isn't. Coupled with this is the dubious hermeneutic methodology of his associates such as Ven. Sujato and Piya Tan who have attempted to validate this assertion by forcing the suttas to agree with Brahmavamso's jhāna. To this end they have either intentionally or unintentionally ignored many suttas and all of the earliest strata of commentary (canoncial, para-canoncial, and post-canonical) which doesn't accord with their thesis. This is no different than the hermeneutic methodology used by Ven. Ṭhānissaro to validate his "mind like fire unbound" theory.

If we compare the descriptions of Ven. Brahmavamso's jhāna with the suttas and commentaries the descriptions and definition of terms don't correspond.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:37 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
In both the Abhidhammapiṭaka and the Aṭṭhakathā mahaggata citta and mahaggatā cetovimutti are understood to refer to jhāna. The commentary on MN 127 specifically says that mahaggatā cetovimutti refers to kasiṇa jhāna:
He covers the are the size of one tree root with the kasiṇanimitta, and he abides resolved upon that totality sign, pervading it with the mahaggatajjhāna.
The same applies to the more expansive totalities. And also in the commentary to the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta the mahaggata citta is understood to refer to the expansive mind abiding in jhāna. Thee is no reason to interpret these suttas differently.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:23 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
The kāmehi refers to both the objects of sensual pleasure (vatthukāmā) and the defilements of sensual pleasure (kilesakāmā). In commentarial terms, the form portion of the "whole body" experienced in jhāna is mind-produced form which pervades the physical body. The Dīghanikāyaṭīkā:
Mind-produced form (cittajarūpa) suffuses every area where there is kamma-produced form (kammajarūpa).

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:01 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
In the Abhidhamma the seven factors of awakening are all considered to be present at the time of attaining the noble path -- hence "awakening." This demonstrates the integral synthesis of awakening. And of the seven factors, dhamma-investigation is singled out as synonymous with both the faculty of discernment, and vipassanā. As already mentioned, in the Mahāniddesa dhamma-investigation is said to be synonymous with bodhi. Also, from the Milindapañha:
“By how many factors does one awaken to the truth?”

“By one, dhamma-investigation, for nothing can be understood without that.”

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:04 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Another fallacious misrepresentation. I completely fail to understand what you hope to gain by misrepresenting what I've said. I've already suggested two good sources for deepening one's appreciation and understanding of the integral model of the 37 requisites of awakening. Unless there is some agreement about path structure and some basic terms like sati, sampajañña, samādhi, saññā, nimitta, and mahaggatā citta, and how these relate to the kasiṇa jhānas, the brahmavihāra jhānas, the asubha jhānas, and so on, there is little basis for meaningful discussion.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:34 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
This is just another sustained ad hom with no basis in fact. I don't have "such high disdain for the Pali Commentaries." The understanding that the noble path is attained at once, designated as "one moment," is a canonical Theravāda doctrine which is stated in the Paṭisambhidāmagga. This doctrine doesn't entail adherence to a theory of radical momentariness; nor does the understanding of concomitant dhammas entail adherence to a theory of radical momentariness. At any rate, it seems that this discussion isn't worth pursuing any further.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:11 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
How could I be any clearer? Vipassanā has to occur and be present as a supramundane dhamma whenever there is path attainment. It doesn't matter if it's the first jhāna, second jhāna, third jhāna, or fourth jhāna path attainment.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:06 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
The concomitance is quite obvious from the text itself, taken in context. It's been noticed that one of your favorite diversion tactics for raising qualms which are no more than red herrings is to attempt grammatical distinctions which have no relevance to the passage in question. And FTR, I don't have "high disdain" for the commentaries.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:56 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Not so. I've already provided the reference to the Dhammasaṅgaṇī which explains mahaggatā in the context of jhāna. The term cetovimutti is used in different ways in different contexts (e.g. mettā cetovimuti, adukkhamasukhā cetovimutti, etc. Cf. Bhante G. A Critical Analysis of the Jhānas, p. 355) where it often refers to meditative attainments realized through the development of calm (samathabhāvanā). AN 2.32 Vijjābhāgiyā Sutta:
When calm (samatha) is developed, what purpose does it serve? The mind is developed. And what is the benefit of a developed mind? Passion is abandoned.... Defiled by passion, the mind is not released.... Thus, monks, from the fading away of passion there is liberation of mind (cetovimutti).

This use of mahaggatā cetovimuti refers to jhāna attainment. These terms as they relate to the jhānas are standardized in the Abhidhammapiṭaka.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:53 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
The citations have already been provided from the Dhammasaṅgaṇī. I can understand why you may have difficulty understanding the synthesis of the Abhidhammapiṭaka, as it presents an integral eightfold path, whereas Ven. Brahmavamso's teachings aren't very integral. I would recommend beginning with Wings to Awakening by Ven. Ṭhānissaro, and The Buddhist Path to Awakening by R. M. Gethin.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:38 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
From the same Introduction:
It has been said above that fifty-six dhamma factor constitute the First Category of Meritorious Thought. There are two points to be made here. The first is that in the seventeen groups of dhamma factors mentioned above, the first group of dhamma factors, namely, the group of five dhamma factors headed by contact, is the most proximate cause for the arising of the meritorious thought; the second group which consists of the five factors of the first jhana is the most proximate cause for arising of the first group headed by contact. and so it goes on step by step till the seventeenth group. However, this is only an analytical view. The actual fact is that there are thirty dhamma factors occurring as fifty-six items in the complete list and these arise simultaneously.
Your qualms, as per usual, are completely unfounded.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:23 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
The Dhammasaṅgaṇī details a number of different jhānas, including the kasiṇa jhānas, the brahmavihāra jhānas, the asubha jhānas, and so on. All of these jhānas are capable of expansive development. Terms such as totality (kasiṇa), immeasurable (appamāṇa), and expansive (mahaggatā) which are used in the descriptions of these samādhis indicate the expansiveness of jhāna. MN 127 explains the meaning of expansive mind-liberation and indicates the way of development:
And what, householder, is the expansive liberation of mind (mahaggatā cetovimutti)? Here a monk abides resolved upon an area the size of the root of one tree, pervading it as expansive: this is called the expansive liberation of mind. Here a monk abides resolved upon an area the size of the roots of two or three trees, pervading it as expansive: this too is called the expansive liberation of mind. Here a monk abides resolved upon an area the size of one village, pervading it as expansive ... an area the size of two or three villages... an area the size of one major kingdom... an area the size of two or three major kingdoms... an area the size of the earth bounded by the ocean, pervading it as expansive: this too is called the expansive liberation of mind.

The Dhammasaṅgaṇī (1027) states that this expansiveness is distinctive of the mind engaged in jhāna:
What phenomena are expansive (mahaggatā)? There are skillful and neither-skillful-nor-unskillful phenomena of the form sphere (rūpāvacarā) and the formless sphere (arūpāvacarā), the feeling aggregate, recognition aggregate, fabrications aggregate, and consciousness aggregate; these phenomena are expansive.

MN 77 lists the ten kasiṇa jhānas, the first of which is earth-perception kasiṇa jhāna:
Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to develop the ten totality spheres. One perceives the earth totality above, below, and across, undivided and immeasurable... And thereby many disciples of mine abide having reached the perfection and consummation of direct gnosis.

MN 121 explains the way of developing earth-perception kasiṇa jhāna:
Now, as well as before, I remain fully in a dwelling of emptiness. Just as this palace of Migara's mother is empty of elephants, cattle, &amp; mares, empty of gold &amp; silver, empty of assemblies of women &amp; men, and there is only this non-emptiness — the singleness based on the community of monks; even so, Ananda, a monk — not attending to the perception of village, not attending to the perception of human being — attends to the singleness based on the perception of wilderness. His mind takes pleasure, finds satisfaction, settles, &amp; indulges in its perception of wilderness.

He discerns that 'Whatever disturbances that would exist based on the perception of village are not present. Whatever disturbances that would exist based on the perception of human being are not present. There is only this modicum of disturbance: the singleness based on the perception of wilderness.' He discerns that 'This mode of perception is empty of the perception of village. This mode of perception is empty of the perception of human being. There is only this non-emptiness: the singleness based on the perception of wilderness.' Thus he regards it as empty of whatever is not there. Whatever remains, he discerns as present: 'There is this.' And so this, his entry into emptiness, accords with actuality, is undistorted in meaning, &amp; pure.

Further, Ananda, the monk — not attending to the perception of human being, not attending to the perception of wilderness — attends to the singleness based on the perception of earth. His mind takes pleasure, finds satisfaction, settles, &amp; indulges in its perception of earth. Just as a bull's hide is stretched free from wrinkles with a hundred stakes, even so — without attending to all the ridges &amp; hollows, the river ravines, the tracts of stumps &amp; thorns, the craggy irregularities of this earth — he attends to the singleness based on the perception of earth. His mind takes pleasure, finds satisfaction, settles, &amp; indulges in its perception of earth.

He discerns that 'Whatever disturbances that would exist based on the perception of human being are not present. Whatever disturbances that would exist based on the perception of wilderness are not present. There is only this modicum of disturbance: the singleness based on the perception of earth.' He discerns that 'This mode of perception is empty of the perception of human being. This mode of perception is empty of the perception of wilderness. There is only this non-emptiness: the singleness based on the perception of earth.' Thus he regards it as empty of whatever is not there. Whatever remains, he discerns as present: 'There is this.' And so this, his entry into emptiness, accords with actuality, is undistorted in meaning, &amp; pure.

Sigālapita Theragāthā 1.18 describes skeleton-perception asubha jhāna:
There was an heir to the Buddha, a monk in the Bhesakala forest, 
Who suffused this whole earth with skeleton-perception,
Quickly, I say, he abandoned passion for sensual pleasure.

The brahmavihāra jhānas are described in many places, such as AN 11.17:
Then again, a monk keeps pervading the first direction with a mind imbued with loving-kindness, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth. Thus above, below, and all around, everywhere, in its entirety, he keeps pervading the all-encompassing cosmos with a mind imbued with loving-kindness — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, without hostility, without ill will.

The other types of jhāna are listed in many suttas and detailed in the Dhammasaṅgaṇī, the Vibhaṅga, and the Paṭisambhidāmagga.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:45 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Mindfulness (sati) and full awareness (sampajañña) are fully developed in the third and fourth jhāna.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:02 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Already done in the quotation from the Dhammasaṅgaṇī:
What at that time is the faculty of discernment? That which at that time is discernment, thorough understanding, investigation, comprehensive investigation, dhamma-investigation, consideration, discrimination, direct discrimination, erudite intelligence, proficiency, refined intelligence, discriminative examination, reflection, comparative examination, breadth of knowledge, wisdom that destroys defilements, penetrative wisdom, vipassanā, full awareness, discernment like a guiding goad, faculty of discernment, strength of discernment, discernment like a sword, discernment like a tower, discernment like light, discernment like radiance, discernment like a torch, discernment like a jewel, non-delusion, dhamma-investigation, right view, awakening factor of dhamma-investigation, a path factor, knowledge included in the path – this at that time is the faculty of discernment.

What at that time is vipassanā? That which at that time is discernment, thorough understanding, investigation, comprehensive investigation, dhamma-investigation, consideration, discrimination, direct discrimination, erudite intelligence, proficiency, refined intelligence, discriminative examination, reflection, comparative examination, breadth of knowledge, wisdom that destroys defilements, penetrative wisdom, vipassanā, full awareness, discernment like a guiding goad, faculty of discernment, strength of discernment, discernment like a sword, discernment like a tower, discernment like light, discernment like radiance, discernment like a torch, discernment like a jewel, non-delusion, dhamma-investigation, right view, awakening factor of dhamma-investigation, a path factor, knowledge included in the path – this at that time is vipassanā.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:56 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
I think Ven. Yuttadhammo said it quite accurately in his critique of Ven. Brahmavamso's The Jhānas:
What I have a problem with is what seems clearly to be a distortion of the Buddha’s teaching in order to support his own way of teaching.

I would extend this to Ven. Sujato's methodology of beginning with a preconceived thesis and then attempting to force the suttas into agreement.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:20 am
Title: Re: Characteristics of Faith-follower and Dhamma-follower
Content:
Ven. Kheminda has also written on this subject, which is the first part of his book titled Path, Fruit, and Nibbāna.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:54 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
You continue to either misunderstand or intentionally misrepresent the Abhidhammapiṭaka. If it's intentional then it's merely an attempt at misdirection.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:26 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Reference to the canon and to specialists in the fields of Buddhist meditation, translation, and scholarship are completely valid. Let's see what some specialists in these fields have to say on the subject, and see if you agree or disagree with them. I won't list their credentials, as I'm sure you're well aware of them. Ajahn Chah:
In appanā samādhi the mind calms down and is stilled to a level where it is at its most subtle and skilful. Even if you experience sense impingement from the outside, such as sounds and physical sensations, it remains external and is unable to disturb the mind. You might hear a sound, but it won't distract your concentration. There is the hearing of the sound, but the experience is as if you don't hear anything.

Do you agree or disagree with this? How about Ven. Ṭhānissaro reporting what Ajahn Fuang considered to be wrong concentration:
The second state [of wrong concentration] was one I happened to hit one night when my concentration was extremely one-pointed, and so refined that it refused settle on or label even the most fleeting mental objects. I dropped into a state in which I lost all sense of the body, of any internal/external sounds, or of any thoughts or perceptions at all — although there was just enough tiny awareness to let me know, when I emerged, that I hadn't been asleep. I found that I could stay there for many hours, and yet time would pass very quickly. Two hours would seem like two minutes. I could also "program" myself to come out at a particular time.

After hitting this state several nights in a row, I told Ajaan Fuang about it, and his first question was, "Do you like it?" My answer was "No," because I felt a little groggy the first time I came out. "Good," he said. "As long as you don't like it, you're safe. Some people really like it and think it's nibbana or cessation. Actually, it's the state of non-perception (asaññi-bhava). It's not even right concentration, because there's no way you can investigate anything in there to gain any sort of discernment....

In both these states of wrong concentration, the limited range of awareness was what made them wrong. If whole areas of your awareness are blocked off, how can you gain all-around insight? And as I've noticed in years since, people adept at blotting out large areas of awareness through powerful one-pointedness also tend to be psychologically adept at dissociation and denial.

Do you agree with this or not? How about Ven. Bodhi:
The commentarial method of explanation stipulates that the meditator emerges from the jhāna attainment and practices insight contemplation with a mind made sharp and supple by the jhāna. However, the suttas themselves say nothing about emerging from the jhāna. If one reads the suttas alone, without the commentaries, it seems as if the meditator examines the factors within the jhāna itself.

Do you agree with this or not? How about Ven. Gunaratana:
The belief that one must come out of jhāna to gain supernormal knowledge (abhiññās) or to destroy defilements and attain enlightenment is based on an assumption that the concentrated mind becomes one with the object of meditation and is absorbed into that object. For this reason some people translate jhāna or samādhi as absorption concentration. If the mind is absorbed into the object then the mind is paralyzed and incapable of doing anything.

This may be true when the jhāna is gained without mindfulness. This is what happened to the teachers of the Bodhisatta Gotama. They were stuck in jhāna but they thought that they had attained enlightenment. This cannot happen when you practice jhāna with mindfulness. When we attain right jhāna, our mindfulness is pure, our equanimity is strong, our concentration is strong and our attention is sharp. Right concentration consolidates all the mental factors that the Buddha has listed in the Anupada Sutta. Concentration is one of the factors present in right jhāna. You are fully aware, without words or concepts, of the subtlest impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and selflessness that takes place in this state of samādhi. These are your direct experience, not philosophical or logical thoughts.

Do you agree with this or not? And a few ancient Indian sources. The Vibhaṅga Satipaṭṭhānavibhaṅga:
And how does a monk dwell contemplating the body in the body?

Here a monk, at whatever time, develops supramundane jhāna, which leads on, which goes to decrease (of rebirth), to abandonment of wrong views, to the attainment of the first ground, (where) quite secluded from sense desires, secluded from unwholesome things, having thinking, reflection, and the happiness and rapture born of seclusion, he dwells, having attained the first jhāna, and with painful practice and slow deepening of knowledge, and at that time: there is contact, there is feeling, there is perception, there is intention, there is thought, there is thinking, there is reflection, there is joyful interest, there is happiness, there is one-pointedness, there is the faculty of faith, there is the faculty of energy, there is the faculty of mindfulness, there is the faculty of concentration, there is the faculty of wisdom, there is the mind-faculty, there is the joy-faculty, there is the life-faculty, there is right view, there is right intention, there is right endeavour, there is right mindfulness, there is right concentration, there is the strength of faith, there is the strength of energy, there is the strength of mindfulness, there is the strength of concentration, there is the strength of wisdom, there is the strength of conscience, there is the strength of shame, there is no greed, there is no hate, there is no delusion, there is no avarice, there is no ill-will, there is right view, there is conscience, there is shame, there is bodily calm, there is mental calm, there is bodily lightness, there is mental lightness, there is bodily plasticity, there is mental plasticity, there is bodily workableness, there is mental workableness, there is bodily proficiency, there is mental proficiency, there is bodily uprightness, there is mental uprightness, there is mindfulness, there is full awareness, there is samatha, there is vipassanā, there is support, there is balance: these are wholesome things.

Do you agree with this or not? How about the Dhammasaṅgaṇī Cittuppādakaṇḍa Lokuttarakusala Suddhikapaṭipadā:
When at a certain time one develops supramundane jhāna, which leads out, which goes to decrease (of rebirth), to abandonment of wrong views, to the attainment of the first stage (i.e. sotāpattimagga), quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful phenomena, he enters and remains in the first jhāna, which includes directed thought and evaluation, as well as joy and pleasure born of seclusion, and with difficult practice and slow acquisition of gnosis, then at that time there is contact, there is feeling, there is apperception, there is volitional intention, there is directed thought, there is evaluation, there is joy, there is pleasure, there is singleness of mind, there is the faculty of faith, there is the faculty of energy, there is the faculty of mindfulness, there is the faculty of concentration, there is the faculty of discernment, there is the mind-faculty, there is the happiness-faculty, there is the life-faculty, there is the 'I-shall-come-to-know-the-unknown' faculty, there is right view, there is right resolve, there is right effort, there is right mindfulness, there is right concentration, there is the strength of faith, there is the strength of energy, there is the strength of mindfulness, there is the strength of concentration, there is the strength of discernment, there is the strength of conscience, there is the strength of shame, there is no greed, there is no hate, there is no delusion, there is no avarice, there is no aversion, there is right view, there is conscience, there is shame, there is bodily calm, there is mental calm, there is bodily lightness, there is mental lightness, there is bodily pliability, there is mental pliability, there is bodily workableness, there is mental workableness, there is bodily proficiency, there is mental proficiency, there is bodily uprightness, there is mental uprightness, there is mindfulness, there is full awareness, there is samatha, there is vipassanā, there is exertion, there is non-distraction.

What at that time is the faculty of discernment? That which at that time is discernment, thorough understanding, investigation, comprehensive investigation, dhamma-investigation, consideration, discrimination, direct discrimination, erudite intelligence, proficiency, refined intelligence, discriminative examination, reflection, comparative examination, breadth of knowledge, wisdom that destroys defilements, penetrative wisdom, vipassanā, full awareness, discernment like a guiding goad, faculty of discernment, strength of discernment, discernment like a sword, discernment like a tower, discernment like light, discernment like radiance, discernment like a torch, discernment like a jewel, non-delusion, dhamma-investigation, right view, awakening factor of dhamma-investigation, a path factor, knowledge included in the path – this at that time is the faculty of discernment.

What at that time is vipassanā? That which at that time is discernment, thorough understanding, investigation, comprehensive investigation, dhamma-investigation, consideration, discrimination, direct discrimination, erudite intelligence, proficiency, refined intelligence, discriminative examination, reflection, comparative examination, breadth of knowledge, wisdom that destroys defilements, penetrative wisdom, vipassanā, full awareness, discernment like a guiding goad, faculty of discernment, strength of discernment, discernment like a sword, discernment like a tower, discernment like light, discernment like radiance, discernment like a torch, discernment like a jewel, non-delusion, dhamma-investigation, right view, awakening factor of dhamma-investigation, a path factor, knowledge included in the path – this at that time is vipassanā.

Do you agree with this or not? And since Ven. Sujato is using Sarvāstivāda texts to try to legitimize his and Ven. Brahmavamso's theories, it's appropriate to include two authoritative Indian Sarvāstivāda sources. How about the Mahāvibhāṣā:
In the four dhyānas, śamatha and vipaśyanā are equal in strength, and thus they are named a pleasant dwelling.

Do you agree with this or not? How about the Abhidharmakośabhāṣya:
Samādhi is in fact excellent: it is a dhyāna filled with "parts," which goes by the means of the yoke of śamatha and vipaśyanā [that is to say, in which śamatha and vipaśyanā are in equilibrium], that is termed in the Sūtra "happiness in this world" and "the easy path," the path by which one knows better and easily.

Do you agree with this or not? It would be good to hear your thoughts on these specific quotations.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:51 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Your misunderstanding of the difference between thought and apperception has already been noted and addressed.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:41 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Really? Just my understanding? How about the understanding of countless meditators, scholars, translators, and commentators who contradict what you are trying to establish?

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:35 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
The only thing which is bizarre is your insistence on tossing everything out the window which doesn't fit with Brahmavamso's jhāna theory. This isn't surprising, as this is the methodology employed by Ven. Sujato in an attempt to legitimize his and Ven. Brahmavamso's strange notions of what jhāna and Therāvada doctrine should be.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:53 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
As I've already mentioned, the Paṭisambhidāmagga Yuganaddhakathā is the canonical commentary on this sutta, where the coupling of samatha and vipassanā are said to occur together upon attainment of the noble path. They are concomitant path factors of supramundane jhāna. This is the same as what is presented in the Dhammasaṅgaṇī Cittuppādakaṇḍa Lokuttarakusala Suddhikapaṭipadā.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:39 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Yes, it's quite clear that Ven. Brahmavamso's jhāna is incompatible with what is presented in the Pāḷi Tipiṭaka as well as all of the other major Indian Sthaviravāda treatises, all of which present vipassanā occurring within jhāna.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:27 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Ven. Gunaratana states:
The belief that one must come out of jhāna to gain supernormal knowledge (abhiññās) or to destroy defilements and attain enlightenment is based on an assumption that the concentrated mind becomes one with the object of meditation and is absorbed into that object. For this reason some people translate jhāna or samādhi as absorption concentration. If the mind is absorbed into the object then the mind is paralyzed and incapable of doing anything.

This may be true when the jhāna is gained without mindfulness. This is what happened to the teachers of the Bodhisatta Gotama. They were stuck in jhāna but they thought that they had attained enlightenment. This cannot happen when you practice jhāna with mindfulness. When we attain right jhāna, our mindfulness is pure, our equanimity is strong, our concentration is strong and our attention is sharp. Right concentration consolidates all the mental factors that the Buddha has listed in the Anupada Sutta. Concentration is one of the factors present in right jhāna. You are fully aware, without words or concepts, of the subtlest impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and selflessness that takes place in this state of samādhi. These are your direct experience, not philosophical or logical thoughts.

Are you suggesting that there is no possibility of developing vipassanā of phenomena one by one as they occur (anupadadhammavipassanā) while abiding in jhāna? Are you suggesting that MN 111 and the Dhammasaṅgaṇī and the Vibhaṅga are wrong to include apperception in their analyses of dhammas occurring in jhāna? MN 111 informs us that in the first seven attainments phenomena are differentiated and known as they occur. It's not vipassanā of phenomena that had passed, ceased, and changed, it's vipassanā of phenomena one by one as they occurred: "These phenomena were defined by him one by one as they occurred; known to him these phenomena arose, known they were present, known they disappeared."

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:40 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Are you suggesting that there would be no faculty of discernment or vipassanā occurring if one were to attain the noble path through the second, third, or fourth jhāna? Are you suggesting that the Dhammasaṅgaṇī is short of both the satisambojjhaṅga and the dhammavicayasambojjhaṅga?

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:27 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Ah yes, all the rest of us have got it wrong, and Ven. Brahmavamso and Ven. Sujato and their modern sect have rediscovered the Buddhadhamma....

Utter nonsense.


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:23 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
The Theravāda is a Three Piṭaka Abhidhamma school. There is no early Theravāda which can be differentiated from the Theravāda monastics who redacted the Pāḷi Tipiṭaka. Early Buddhism was not Theravāda any more than it was Sarvāstivāda or Mahāsāṃghika.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:41 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
From the Vibhaṅga Satipaṭṭhānavibhaṅga:
And how does a monk dwell contemplating the body in the body?

Here a monk, at whatever time, develops supramundane jhāna, which leads on, which goes to decrease (of rebirth), to abandonment of wrong views, to the attainment of the first ground, (where) quite secluded from sense desires, secluded from unwholesome things, having thinking, reflection, and the happiness and rapture born of seclusion, he dwells, having attained the first jhāna, and with painful practice and slow deepening of knowledge, and at that time: there is contact, there is feeling, there is perception, there is intention, there is thought, there is thinking, there is reflection, there is joyful interest, there is happiness, there is one-pointedness, there is the faculty of faith, there is the faculty of energy, there is the faculty of mindfulness, there is the faculty of concentration, there is the faculty of wisdom, there is the mind-faculty, there is the joy-faculty, there is the life-faculty, there is right view, there is right intention, there is right endeavour, there is right mindfulness, there is right concentration, there is the strength of faith, there is the strength of energy, there is the strength of mindfulness, there is the strength of concentration, there is the strength of wisdom, there is the strength of conscience, there is the strength of shame, there is no greed, there is no hate, there is no delusion, there is no avarice, there is no ill-will, there is right view, there is conscience, there is shame, there is bodily calm, there is mental calm, there is bodily lightness, there is mental lightness, there is bodily plasticity, there is mental plasticity, there is bodily workableness, there is mental workableness, there is bodily proficiency, there is mental proficiency, there is bodily uprightness, there is mental uprightness, there is mindfulness, there is full awareness, there is samatha, there is vipassanā, there is support, there is balance: these are wholesome things.

It's quite nonsensical to insist that a corresponding reading cannot be applied to the Dhammasaṅgaṇī's treatment of rūpāvacarajjhāna associated with gnosis.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:09 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Ah yes, the Vibhaṅga must be completely wrong. The Mahāniddesa must be completely wrong. The Peṭakopadesa must be completely wrong. And there can be no possibility of vipassanā while abiding in jhāna. Therefore, the Paṭisambhidāmagga must be completely wrong. The Vibhaṅga must be completely wrong. The Dhammasaṅgaṇī must be completely wrong. The Mahāvibhāṣā must be completely wrong. The Abhidharmakośabhāṣya must be completely wrong. The Tattvasiddhiśāstra must be completely wrong. In short, all of the major Indian Theravāda, Sarvāstivāda, and Sautrāntika exegetical treatises must be completely wrong.

And not only the Indian treatises. Ven. Ṭhānissaro who is a translator monk, and Ven. Gunaratana who wrote a doctoral dissertation on Theravāda jhāna, and Ven. Bodhi who is one of the best modern translators and and is also a scholar monk; these venerables are all completely wrong. In his anthology of translated discourses, In the Buddha's Words, Ven. Bodhi states:
The commentarial method of explanation stipulates that the meditator emerges from the jhāna attainment and practices insight contemplation with a mind made sharp and supple by the jhāna. However, the suttas themselves say nothing about emerging from the jhāna. If one reads the suttas alone, without the commentaries, it seems as if the meditator examines the factors within the jhāna itself.

And the commentarial method of attaining the noble path via momentary samādhi (khaṇikasamādhi), access samādhi (upacārasamādhi), or prepatory stage samādhi (anāgamya-samādhi, which is the Sarvāstivāda equivalent of access samādhi) must also be completely wrong. Therefore, every single Theravāda, Sarvāstivāda, and Sautrāntika commentator, ancient or modern, must be completely wrong. Ven. Brahmavamso and Ven. Sujato have miraculously rediscovered the Buddhadhamma after 2500 years, and their teachings must be right even though they are contradicted by almost every other scholar, translator, or commentator, ancient or modern, Theravāda or Sarvāstivāda or Sautrāntika or Yogācāra.

Sorry, but I don't buy it.  

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:46 am
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Kāmasaññanirodha doesn't require that "all the five senses are totally shut down." Attending to a mental object (nimitta) in rūpāvacarajjhāna doesn't require that "all the five senses are totally shut down." There is a difference between attending to a mental object via mental consciousness, and the formless attainments wherein the mind is totally isolated from the five sense faculties. In commentarial terms, attending exclusively to a cognitive representation/mental object already occurs at the stage of access samādhi. Thus, the engagement is exclusively that of the apperception of the counterpart representation via mental consciousness. The difference between access samādhi and and the first jhāna is the degree of stability of the jhāna factors. The difference between the first jhāna and the formless attainments is indicated in both the Vimuttimagga and the Visuddhimagga when they discuss the formless attainments and mention Aḷāra Kālāma not seeing or hearing the five-hundred carts passing by when abiding in a formless attainment.

It's quite clear from Ven. Brahmavamso's descriptions of his jhānas that his use of of mindfulness (sati), full awareness (sampajañña), and apperception (saññā) and so on, have no basis in the suttas or abhidhamma. I and others have gone to great length to discuss this. I have no doubt that this doesn't sit well with his devout followers, but I think it's probably worth saying out loud (even if it stirs up a hornets nest of objections from his followers). And I assure you that I get no pleasure from criticizing him. As Dmytro and others have said more than once, this idea of approaching the suttas without reference to the canonical and para-canonical definitions of terms which are not explicitly defined in the suttas is problematic, to say the least. And the qualms you repeatedly raise are red herrings. The suttas simply don't say what you are trying to make them say. This has been demonstrated in great detail, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:01 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
The Kathāvatthu and the Visuddhimagga maintain that the cessation of apperception and feeling (saññāvedayitanirodha), which is also called cessation attainment (nirodhasamāpatti) is neither supramundane nor not-conditioned (asaṅkhata). Cf. Visuddhimagga 23.52:
As to the question: Is the attainment of cessation formed or unformed, etc.? It is not classifiable as formed or unformed, mundane or supramundane. Why? Because it has no individual essence. But since it comes to be attained by one who attains it, it is therefore permissible to say that it is produced, not unproduced.

The Visuddhimagga also states that only non-returners and arahants can attain the cessation of apperception and feeling. The suttas and the commentaries both state that arahants who are liberated through discernment do not. Therefore it is not accurate to equate nibbāna with nirodhasamāpatti. Cf. MN 70 Kīṭāgiri Sutta:
And what, monks, is the person liberated through discernment? There is the case where a certain person does not remain touching with his body those peaceful liberations that transcend form, that are formless, but having seen with discernment his mental outflows are ended. This is called a person who is liberated through discernment.

And AN 4.87 Samaṇamacala Putta Sutta:
And how, monks, is a person a white lotus ascetic? Herein a monk, having eliminated the mental outflows, is without mental outflows. With liberation of mind and liberation through discernment, having realized supramundane gnosis, he abides with that attainment. Yet he does not abide personally experiencing the eight deliverances. Thus, monks, is a person a white lotus ascetic.

The eighth deliverance of the eight deliverances (aṭṭha vimokkhā) is the cessation of apperception and feeling (saññāvedayitanirodha). Arahants who are liberated through discernment do not attain this cessation.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:27 pm
Title: Re: A Critique of Brahmavamso’s “The Jhanas”
Content:
Vipassanā doesn't require vitakka and/or vicāra. It requires apperception (saññā), which is functional in all four jhānas.

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:55 pm
Title: Re: Ajahn Chah's Life & Dhamma Teachings
Content:
I first read this passage (or one very much like it) many years ago in A Still Forest Pool. A very memorable instruction. 

All the best,

Geoff


Author: Nyana
Date: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:37 pm
Title: Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism
Content:
I think this is accurate.

All the best,

Geoff


