﻿Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 9th, 2012 at 7:59 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
oushi said:
And what is the true Buddha?

Astus wrote:
Lu Sheng-yen?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 9th, 2012 at 7:23 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
Astus wrote:
The Bodhidharma quote was about false visions of buddhas, not ethical conduct.

Ideas of self and owner are rejected and refuted by all Buddhist schools under the teaching of selflessness. How is that subject relevant here? Or, as Wumen asks, "Why should you ask whether you recognize him or not?"


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 9th, 2012 at 6:35 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
oushi said:
What is perfect morality? Can you describe it?

Astus wrote:
Mentioned before, the 10 virtuous acts and others describe it fine. In brief, it is harmlessness and compassion.

oushi said:
1. Gradual, from definition, is an approach of those that don't know.
2. My direct approach came from inquiry. Scriptures came later. It is great fun to read them. Before that, you need to see, that is why I ask questions. There is no point of just repeating after masters.
3. All relies on the teacher.

Astus wrote:
1. Those who already know need no instructions.
2. Inquiry is needed when one is without knowledge, and by inquiring one goes through a gradual investigation.
3. In that case, it is not based on one's own buddha-mind.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 9th, 2012 at 5:59 PM
Title: Re: Whats the difference
Content:
Astus wrote:
As mentioned before by pueraeternus, samadhi originally meant meditation and usually of the samatha type, mostly synonymous with dhyana. The meaning of samadhi was gradually changed in Mahayana to encompass different sorts of realisations, like in the Samadhiraja Sutra which is relevant in Mahamudra. At the same time, the meaning of dhyana was also gradually modified into different sorts of deep absorptions to the level that it was taught to be avoided in Mahayana. As with many terms in Buddhism, they eventually become the victims of over-conceptualisation.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 9th, 2012 at 5:23 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
oushi said:
How do you measure enlightenment? You used "supposedly" because you don't know. You think I will? Buddha is not found in appearances. If you believe in morality as a measure of enlightenment, you will be driven by assumptions.

Astus wrote:
If buddha-nature contains perfect morality, by enlightenment it should naturally manifest in all one's actions as buddha activity.

oushi said:
Go for direct meaning, don't waste your time for local gossips. Only because people are looking for the Buddha outside, they fall prey to charlatans.

Astus wrote:
Was it your idea to choose direct over gradual? Was it you who invented what direct is? If no, then you have already relied on others.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 9th, 2012 at 3:48 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
Astus wrote:
Oushi,

"Far better it is to have nothing further to seek, to be simple and plain."

That's good, no disagreement with that. Question really is, if it were so simple and easy, how on earth could supposedly enlightened Zen teachers commit such misconducts?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 9th, 2012 at 3:26 PM
Title: Re: Whats the difference
Content:
Astus wrote:
There can be other interpretations, but the different levels of absorption (dhyana) simply describe a more and more calm mind. For instance, on the first level we still have thoughts and pondering about things. The fourth level is what a stable, calm, pristine, limpid mind is without thoughts or feelings of elation.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 9th, 2012 at 5:33 AM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
oushi said:
Karma is not a magical force behind the scenes. You wont cumulative bad karma from actions that you see as right.

Astus wrote:
Karma is not magical, only natural. There are situations where people say it is all right to kill, steal, cheat, etc., and one can actually be in situations when it feels acceptable to kill, steal, cheat, and so on. Does that make it ethical? In fact, people necessarily choose what they think is the best choice. And yes, there can be conflict between what they believe is morally right and what is right at the moment. But if such a relativist attitude were true, then only those could experience any negative karma who have an internal moral conflict. That is, not many people. And that makes the whole teaching of karma useless. It's rather the opposite in Buddhism. Karma is a teaching about how the mind functions, how different attitudes and actions create imprints in the mind, and then how those imprints change one's experience. The twelve links of dependent origination is an easy example for this. It is not some made up religious phantasm to scare little children but something that is based on meditative observation of the mind. On the night of his enlightenment Siddhartha saw first his previous lives and then saw how beings are reborn according to their actions, and then realised the ending of all defilements. This is understanding the second noble truth, the origin of suffering, and the realisation of the third truth, the end of suffering. Not understanding the cause of the problem can only result in being unable to solve it. That's why the four noble truths are the core teachings of the Buddha.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 9th, 2012 at 3:22 AM
Title: Re: Who is your favorite Buddha/Bodhisattva?
Content:
Red Faced Buddha said:
Never heard of her.My favorite is probably Manjushri,next to Amitabha Buddha and Avalokiteśvara.

Astus wrote:
Guanyin (observe+sound) = Avalokitesvara


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 9th, 2012 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
oushi said:
What is morality, how is it developed, why people defend it so furiously?

Astus wrote:
Morality in Buddhism is defined by the correct behaviour in body and speech. What correct behaviour consists of is given in the ten virtuous deeds and others. It is part of both the noble eightfold path and the six paramitas, therefore they lead to both temporary and ultimate liberation from suffering. This answers your three questions.

oushi said:
It is conditioned and relative. You wont find two people sharing the same moral conduct.

Astus wrote:
It is exactly because of being conditioned that it has effect. If by relative you mean that people have different ideas of what is good and bad, you are right. However, Buddhism is not based on the opinion of ordinary people and has a set of moral principles. Also, karma is infallible regardless of what someone believes about right and wrong. The difference between a layman, a novice, a monk and a bodhisattva primarily depends on their respective precepts, the precepts are what give the fundamental cohesion and structure of the community. It is not a question of individual opinions, even when in the daily application of precepts there is some relative freedom.

oushi said:
Buddhism is not about fitting into a model, it's about ending craving. It does not matter what is the object of desire, it still will create suffering.

Astus wrote:
How do you end craving? With the practice of morality, meditation and wisdom. Desire is indeed the cause of suffering. The desire to be free from desire, however, is the cause of liberation. That's how there is also a path and not just a goal.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 9th, 2012 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
oushi said:
we should talk about how things are.

Astus wrote:
And that's why ethics are important to be mentioned, because without it Zen sounds like some abstract idea of a detached mind where there is no cause and effect. From that comes all the actual cases already mentioned.

oushi said:
And how different it is from the founders (Linji) approach...

Astus wrote:
The Linji school was founded hundreds of years after Yixuan himself and his Record was rewritten repeatedly. If you want a glimpse of something closer to LInji it is the teachings of the Hongzhou school. There is also an interesting work about his Yulu: https://books.google.com/books?id=JkGTSWEUCeUC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 8th, 2012 at 11:51 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
Astus wrote:
Oushi,

If teachers don't usually instruct in the direct way, the reason is either that they don't think people will understand it or they don't know it. In either case it shows that the direct method is for those who are already well prepared.

Rinzai Zen (Japanese) has a clear systematic training programme that actually culminates in the contemplation of the bodhisattva precepts.

Baizhang was Linji's teacher, Chinese. The regulations were written in China, not Japan.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 8th, 2012 at 11:08 PM
Title: Re: Who is your favorite Buddha/Bodhisattva?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Seevoice" is the best.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 8th, 2012 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
Astus wrote:
Oushi,

Direct realisation of buddha mind is fine. In theory. In real life hardly anyone teaches it (I've heard of only one teacher like that in this century: Daehaeng Sunim, although there might be others). Therefore there is a need for a gradual path, as it has been devised by the Buddha. It is also true that a bodhisattva on the second bhumi perfects ethical discipline, but that is already a high level compared to all the other 41 levels on the path before that. And if we consider Jinul's teaching, sudden enlightenment is just level 1 of 52. When the precepts are not taught by a teacher but instead the teacher himself is raised beyond all moral concerns, we can see the results as in the original essay posted at the beginning of this thread.

There isn't much on ethics in the Record of Linji. You should look at Baizhang's Regulations as a prime example of added ethical discipline in the Zen tradition besides the Vinaya and bodhisattva precepts.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 8th, 2012 at 9:26 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
Astus wrote:
Oushi,

If you say that moral conduct, goodness, is inherent in humans, that contradicts the fact of unethical behaviour and evil deeds. If you say that from the buddha-nature comes buddha acts, that is not argued, but then it requires first attaining enlightenment. To reach such a realisation there is a path, and the first part of that path is ethical discipline. Without teaching that very first step the further levels are not available.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 8th, 2012 at 7:16 PM
Title: Re: Akshobhya and Amitabha
Content:
Astus wrote:
"What does actually change the the vasanas? How does the hell cease to manifest? How does the human world cease to manifest?"

Ingrained habits are changed by new habits or the Buddhist path. As for the cessation of the different realms, do you mean liberation from such births or in a cosmological sense? In the first case, it is by realisation on the path. In the second one, it is a matter of cyclical contraction and expansion of the realms.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, October 6th, 2012 at 3:41 AM
Title: Re: Can I only use a Zen Buddha/Bodhisattva statue?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Zen as a school within Mahayana is not bound to any particular buddha. So, there is no such thing as a "Zen buddha".


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 4th, 2012 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Maitreya's Pure Land?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Could you then also participate in the assembly at his ascension to buddhahood?"

On one hand, the point of all the teachings there are is to guide people onto the path. If somebody likes Maitreya then go for that. If it's Amitabha, Vairocana, Avalokita, etc., then choose that. In this sense all these teachings are equal in their function. On the other hand, if we want to choose based on doctrinal and practical details instead of emotional preference, the Pure Land teaching of Amita Buddha is the best. And then it doesn't matter if you can be there at Maitreya's descent, since you find yourself in the company of many bodhisattvas and buddhas, and you too are about to reach buddhahood.

Talking about Maitreya, Vimalakirti had a great conversation with him. Just look at how this layman starts his conversation with the next buddha:

"Maitreya, the World-honored One has bestowed on your noble person the prediction that you will achieve anuttarā samyak saṃbodhi in a single lifetime. What lifetime will you use to experience this prediction, past, future, or present? If a past life, then the past life is already extinguished. If a future life, then the future life has not arrived. If the present life, then the present life is nonabiding. It is as the Buddha has explained, "O bhikṣus, you are in this immediate present born, aged, and extinguished.""


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 4th, 2012 at 7:22 PM
Title: Re: Akshobhya and Amitabha
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nothing has intrinsic reality in Mahayana. But everything exists dependently. So, the hells are as real as anything else.

Jan Nattier in her "The Indian Roots of Pure Land Buddhism" explains that initially Akshobhya's land was popular, but as it reflected an older version of the concept of the bodhisattva path, Amita's land gradually took over in popularity because of its accessibility and guaranteed liberation for ordinary people.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 4th, 2012 at 7:19 PM
Title: Re: Maitreya's Pure Land?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There are some points regarding aspiration to be born in the Tusita to meet Maitreya. In Zhiyi's Ten Doubts about the Pure Land it says that there are two main differences. First is that only by upholding the ten virtues and other practices can one attain birth their, and even then there is no guarantee one will succeed, while birth in Amita's land is easily accessible simply by reciting his name. The second point is that the Tusita is still in the realm of desire, there are many distractions from the path and retrogression is still possible, unlike in the Western Land of Peace and Bliss where perfect liberation is guaranteed. The text goes on with further problems, like that just meeting Maitreya in itself does not make sure one actually achieves enlightenment. It also mentions that besides Asanga and Vasubandhu there was also Simhabhadra who aspired to be born in Maitreya's court but he was eventually stuck in the outer section in Tusita and got entangled by the five desires.

Of course, the above is from the perspective of those who propagate birth in Amita's land. But based on the quote fron Ven. Yinshun it seems to me that the requirements of birth are more difficult for Maitreya than Amita Buddha, although this again may depend on whom you ask.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 4th, 2012 at 1:51 AM
Title: Re: Japanese Buddhist Traditions 'reality show'
Content:
Astus wrote:
It looks more like a song contest to me. The order in the video actually is:

10: Rinzai, singing: Hakuin's Song of Zazen
9: Soto, singing: Great Compassion Dharani
8: Tendai/Nichiren (in Tendai temple), singing: 14th chapter of Lotus Sutra
7: Shingon, singing: Rishu-kyo (Adhyardhaśatikā Prajñāpāramitā Sutra)
6: Nichiren/Soto/Tendai (in Nichiren temple), singing: 16th chapter of Lotus Sutra
5: together singing the Heart Sutra
4: Shin, singing: Shoshin Nenbutsu Ge (Hymn of the Nembutsu and True Faith)
3: Soto Zen: Kannon-gyo (section of Lotus Sutra, ch. 25)
2: Jodo/Shin, singing: Infinite Life Sutra (Larger Amitabha Sutra)
1: Jodo/Shin/Tendai, singing: Amida-kyo (Shorter Amitabha Sutra)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 4th, 2012 at 1:13 AM
Title: Re: Pure Land and Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Does that sutra state anywhere specifically that it's a pure land or buddha land?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 4th, 2012 at 1:04 AM
Title: Re: Being in the Present
Content:
Astus wrote:
As you quoted text says, in a deeper sense. A calm mind and an insightful mind unites in the final practice. Strictly speaking, samatha is just calming the mind, which in Mahamudra results in simply resting it in its natural state. Vipasyana is insight into the mind itself, seeing the mind that rests, seeing its nature. Vipasyana in its analytical form is looking here and there, checking and probing, asking questions and following steps of enquiry. Vipasyana in its resting form means that the investigation has finished, nothing conceivable has been found, there is awareness and emptiness without the minutest distinction.This whole process is actually also found in Kamalasila's manuals, so it's neither secret nor very specific to Mahamudra.

Another difference that can be said between samatha and vipasyana is that while in samatha you gradually move inside and you reach a stable mental state which you leave when you finish meditation, in vipasyana you open your awareness to everything that occurs and realise that the nature of mind is always unaffected by appearances, that phenomena are already empty as they are, and there is not a single state of mind you need to revert to in order to be free from suffering.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 4th, 2012 at 12:45 AM
Title: Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
If you want an even shorter introduction to Zen, but still something conceptual, here is this four line poem attributed to Bodhidharma that is usually used as a definition of Zen.

教外別傳
不立文字
直指人心
見性成佛

Outside doctrines a separate transmission
Doesn't rely on letters and words,
Directly points to human mind
To see nature and become buddha.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, October 3rd, 2012 at 11:07 PM
Title: Re: Whats the meaning of Zen Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
You should read some history and other basic things about Zen. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, October 3rd, 2012 at 10:55 PM
Title: Re: Why is Tibetan Buddhism more popular?
Content:
Astus wrote:
" here we are in 2012 and in Soto Zen, 22% of the respondents to a recent survey of dharma successors were over 70 years old. Almost 50% were between 60-69. Only 7% were in their 40s.

Now I like old people as much as the next person. I’ll be one soon myself. So I’m not hating old people here, just saying that when you’ve got 70% of your denomination’s priests over 60 years old (aka, Boomers and beyond), then you might have a problem."

Read the full article: http://sweepingzen.com/zen-is-going-to-hell-and-its-the-boomers-fault


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, October 3rd, 2012 at 7:52 PM
Title: Re: Isnt it a Buddhist belief that there exiet so called Demons
Content:
Astus wrote:
There are demon-like beings in Buddhism. Mostly they are in the realm of hungry spirits and the lower heavens. These are for example the naga (aquatic serpent demons), yaksha (nature spirits), rakshasa (man-eating demons), pishacha (flesh-eating demons), kimnara (centaurs), asura (warrior gods), mahoraga (subterranean serpent demons).


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, October 3rd, 2012 at 5:33 PM
Title: Re: Pure Land and Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kaji,

A time when there were no buddha-lands is not really possible. There is no beginning of life in Buddhism, there is no beginning of buddhas either. But being born in a buddha-land as a part of one's progress on the bodhisattva path is not a requirement, although since bodhisattvas start their career under a buddha and are guided by buddhas, buddha-lands and bodhisattvas go together quire well.

The Tusita is a heaven in the realm of desire, not a buddha-land/pure land (the words are synonyms generally).


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, October 3rd, 2012 at 5:26 PM
Title: Re: Being in the Present
Content:
Astus wrote:
That is how samatha relates to vipasyana. In samatha the mind settles on an object (including itself), and in vipasyana one investigates the object the mind is settled on and the mind itself.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, October 3rd, 2012 at 3:13 AM
Title: Re: Ven Master Dr Heng Sure on Pure Land
Content:
Astus wrote:
Unless the mentioned economic collapse happens a hundred years later, by which time Buddhism could have spread widely enough among Westerners, there is little chance for Ven. Heng Sure's prediction about turning to faith in Amita Buddha can happen. Christianity is still strong in the US. and it has deep enough roots in Europe to regain its followers. Rather it seems to me that those who have already tried some sort of more popular for of Buddhism can turn to the Pure Land, because in them belief in the Dharma is already there.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012 at 8:03 PM
Title: Re: YinYana Creed - based on Nicene Creed
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nice work.

Look at these titles:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/btg/index.htm (1894)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/tbc/index.htm (1908)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/pos/index.htm (1909)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/busc/index.htm (1913)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/cob/index.htm (1919)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/bups/index.htm (1921)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/bb/index.htm (1932)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012 at 5:46 PM
Title: Re: Why is Tibetan Buddhism more popular?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Another thing is that here if you mention Buddhism, people think it exists in India - Buddha was Indian, right? - and then the Dalai Lama and Tibet. That Buddhism is a major religion in China, that's not common knowledge at all.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012 at 5:25 PM
Title: Re: Thamal gyi shepa vs. baby rigpa vs. rigpa (etc.)
Content:
Astus wrote:
"I don't experience appearances as themselves being awareness"

If I think about this sentence literally, even imagining it feels absurd. Awareness is being conscious of something. If that thing is the consciousness that is aware of it, the whole thing collapses. I mean, logically. So that's not what is meant. The other end, that awareness and objects are separate is also ruled out, otherwise they had no connection to each other. In terms of practice, it is to be determined by looking for the gap or border between object and subject in the sensory fields. Of course there is no such thing. Another method is to search for the mind and the object if it's inside, outside or in between. Teachings on this are found in Wangchuk Dorje's Ocean of Definitive Meaning and commentaries. What it comes down to is that there is just the flow of experience, as in the examples of the mirror and the lake. Because everything is an experience, everything is mind. And since all experience are ungraspable and inconceivable, they are empty. When you relax and let sights, sounds, etc. appear and disappear as they are without fixating on any of them, you just open yourself completely, the idea of any viewer and viewed, hearer and heard becomes meaningless. Try to meditate on a single sensory gate, first perhaps using a fixed visual object. Then investigate what you experience.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012 at 7:48 AM
Title: Re: Thamal gyi shepa vs. baby rigpa vs. rigpa (etc.)
Content:
Astus wrote:
There are two defining characteristics: awareness, no characteristics. Well, it's actually one signless awareness. Attaching to any specific feeling, form, thought, impression, vision, etc., is identifying with something, taking an impermanent appearance as eternal. Why is it said to be difficult? Because it is our very basic habit to cling to thoughts and other things. Therefore one fails to differentiate between the content of the mind and mind itself. And when there is differentiation, the mistake happens again by thinking of "mind itself" as a thing, as a state.

Ajahn Sumedho taught a very easy method to see the gap between thoughts. First create a clear and strong thought, for instance saying in your mind "Om mani padme hung". Note how you start to say it in your mind, how you are saying it, and how it goes away. Then a break. A gap. Then you say it again in your mind.

The correct understanding of emptiness is a practice itself. Just consider the fact that karma ultimately comes from thoughts. If you change your thought-patterns you change your karma. Emptiness teaches oneself that there is nothing really to attach to, nothing to identify with, nothing to rely on. So when there is nothing real found, nothing concrete attained, one can let go of it. Without clearly seeing that appearances are empty of self, one may enforce on oneself some calm and peace, but then after meditation everything starts again as before. So understanding helps to let go. When all is let go of, there are no reference points, it is just non-conceptual awareness, it is resting meditation.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: Thamal gyi shepa vs. baby rigpa vs. rigpa (etc.)
Content:
Astus wrote:
"in what way does an experience of "baby rigpa" differ from a "complete" recognition of rigpa?"

The difference is made in order to show that there is a difference between a practitioner and a non-practitioner (i.e. a buddha). The practice is abiding in the natural state, and the natural state is the result, so this way the result is the path. But we can translate it to make it clearer: it is about practising with the correct view in order to attain complete realisation. The correct view conceptually is emptiness, experientially it is not grasping anything as real. It is practice because one works with habitual tendencies that are gradually removed.

"Much of my time is spent in what I could call "thought-free wakefulness," or what feels like a self-aware presence. There is no sense of some concrete thing doing the watching, but there continues to be a sense that objects are being watched."

As Nagarjuna and many other masters have pointed out, there is no ultimate truth beyond conditioned reality. The term "ordinary mind" is usually explained as being ordinary in the sense of simple, uncomplicated, not proliferating views. There is another sense I like to add, and that is the expression's literal sense, our everyday mind that thinks, feels, remembers, wants, hurts, etc. If there is the idea that the true nature of mind is without all the usual content, that is a reification of an abstract self, it is an imagined nothingness, it is annihilationism. Whatever appears in the mind is just natural. Thoughts, etc. come and go. If you fuss about it, there is a problem. Whether you want to grasp or reject, pull or push, there is trouble. If you don't mess around, all is perfect as it is.

Milarepa taught,

"If you are happy practicing with mind,
Thoughts are the mind’s magical creations.
Be mind itself."

Read the full poem: http://www.unfetteredmind.org/milarepas-song-to-lady-paldarboom


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012 at 4:47 AM
Title: Re: Why is Tibetan Buddhism more popular?
Content:
Astus wrote:
While I can only agree regarding publications with JKhedrup, there is another thing I'd like to add here. And that is the difference in the source material itself. Most of the texts translated from Chinese are either Chan works or sutras. Both are difficult to understand for any beginner, or even not so beginner readers. Without a firm knowledge of essential Mahayana doctrines it is only natural that there will be serious misunderstandings. But to get the knowledge of basic Mahayana one has to start reading either academic translations from Sanskrit or works from the Tibetan tradition. And here I'm talking about classical works, not introductory books.

Here is an example of a classical Chinese Buddhist text that was later often referred to in Chan,

"In entering there is transcendence and in emerging there is subtlety. The entering of wisdom is transcendent, [since] the outer defilements have no support. The emergence of wisdom is subtle, [since] the inner mind is devoid of activity. When inwardly the mind is free of intentional activity, one is no longer moved by various views. When outer defilements have no support, one is no longer bound by manifold existence. Free from the bonds of manifold existence, discursive thought no longer charges about. Unmoved by various views, there is inconceivable quiescence and cessation. This can be called originally pure and intrinsic transcendence and subtlety."
(Treasure Store Treatise, ch. 2, in "Coming to Terms with Chinese Buddhism", p. 204)

It is not a matter of bad translation but mainly a foreign terminology. And Dogen - whose works are almost completely translated to English - is a whole different level. Longchenpa's Precious Tresury series are like childen's books compared to that in terms of language.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012 at 3:45 AM
Title: Re: Why is Tibetan Buddhism more popular?
Content:
Astus wrote:
What originally made Zen famous in the West was its anti-intellectualism, anti-structuralism, iconoclasm, minimalism, etc. That is, the way DT Suzuki painted it. There was also a fascination with Japanese culture. But it seems that while that idea of Zen is still alive and well, it leaves too much out. That means that people are mostly free to fill out the huge gaps with their own ideas - thus the many Zen of this and Zen of that - but that results in Zen being little more than a catchword. It takes enormous dedication/fanaticism to stick with a formless and aimless seated meditation as the centre of one's faith. Generally it just turns into some relax time. My hope is that Korean Buddhism can establish itself in the West as a comprehensive practice and doctrine, since there are apparent intentions to do so by the Jogye Order (largest Buddhist organisation in Korea).

I can second Dzoki in that in Central Europe it is Tibetan Buddhism that rules the land, Diamond Way being the number one by miles. In Hungary's case there are a couple of historical reasons too, for instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A1ndor_K%C5%91r%C3%B6si_Csoma. Another example, the last time the Dalai Lama was in Budapest (2010) he had an audience  of more than 10,000 people (that is 0.1% of the entire population of the country) in a stadium. Of course that doesn't mean all were Buddhists.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 1st, 2012 at 3:32 AM
Title: Re: Akshobhya and Amitabha
Content:
Astus wrote:
Buddha-lands are different depending on the individual vows of the buddha who resides there. And just because it is a buddha-land - i.e. has a resident buddha - it doesn't mean it is necessarily out of samsara. When Shakyamuni was in this world it didn't mean that there were no hells or any evil things.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 1st, 2012 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: BBC Radio Programme on Osel Hita Torres
Content:
Astus wrote:
Non-UK members can listen as well.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 28th, 2012 at 2:30 AM
Title: Re: How do gay Buddhists explain this one?
Content:
Astus wrote:
It's unlikely to be meant for monks, since the very first precept of the pratimoksha already covers all kinds of genital-orifice contact (including even animals), and genital-manual contact is also covered in another rule.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 27th, 2012 at 9:32 PM
Title: Re: Sūtra, Tantra, & Essence Mahāmudrā
Content:
Astus wrote:
gnas lugs (place + method) = way of abiding -> natural state
gnas lugs kyi phyag rgya chen po = Mahamudra of the natural state
http://www.nitartha.org/dictionary_search04.html doesn't mention any Sanskrit equivalent.
(I don't know Tibetan, just looked it up)

Equating alayavijnana with tathagatagarbha is another matter.

http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/buddhanature.htm,

"Again, first there is the ground of ignorance and from that there is the subtle movement arising from conceptualisations, which in turn gives rise to the movements that stimulate the mind. When a practitioner realizes the ground, then there is the wisdom, the power, and the great compassion of a Buddha. As long as somebody does not recognize the ground, there is delusion and all that follows. The ground of both delusion and liberation is called alaya, the Sanskrit term for “universal ground.”  The Tibetan translation for alaya is kun-gzhi, “basis of all.”"

You can find a lot more in "A Direct Path to the Buddha Within" on the subject.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 25th, 2012 at 6:24 PM
Title: Re: Neurological science and buddhism
Content:
steveb1 said:
I suppose the central question to Buddhism and other non-materialist systems is: "If consciousness does not arise from neural processes, then what exactly is the role of such processes, what is the role of the brain?" Is there anything in Buddhism that addresses the obviously profound connection between mental phenomena and neural events ... ?

Astus wrote:
The debate exists if the problem is the classical issue of mind and body. Buddhism does not have such a duality. On one hand, it is one of the unanswered questions. On the other, they are not answered because they have incorrect presuppositions of existence and non-existence. The Buddha taught the five aggregates as the middle view. In modern terms, it is a phenomenological approach.

Aemilius said:
The teaching that I quoted is given by Nagarjuna in Mula-madhyamaka-karika and by Vasubandhu in his shorter works. Nagarjuna in many ways denies the apriori existence of matter. Matter has no independent existence in madhyamaka buddhism, it certainly isn't a cause for mind and mental states. Their point is that neither has mind an independent existence.

Astus wrote:
Nagarjuna invalidates the independent existence of all phenomena, it does not prove any non-material existence of mind. Vasubandhu teaches mind-only, but since it's very much philosophical, his proof is relevant only for Buddhists. For instance, Vasubandhu uses magic as an argument at one point. It's hardly persuasive today.

The problem with supernatural abilities generally, is that even in Buddhism they are not sufficiently explained, but simply taken for granted. There is no reasoning how one person could read another's mind, or hear distant events, or fly in the sky. To explain it, that would need getting into the laws of physics, a topic that Buddhism does not really involve itself. And even on the level of Abhidharma, no detailed mechanism for superpowers either.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 24th, 2012 at 5:27 PM
Title: Re: Neurological science and buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
I've never seen any Buddhist teaching that agrees with materialism/physicalism, and those few teachers who do appeared only recently. It's little to do with magical abilities, however.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 24th, 2012 at 1:57 AM
Title: Re: jhana vs silent illumination or other zen methods
Content:
Astus wrote:
Shikantaza is not something you maintain, rather it is not maintaining our delusions. Just sitting is a way to express the basic Zen method of no-thought (in the following translations of Dogen's works put as "before thinking"). As you can see yourself, Dogen explicitly denied that shikantaza is some sort of absorption or gradual technique. That way he subscribed to pure sudden enlightenment teaching, as it is the hallmark of Zen.

Dogen says (Zazengi, all translations from http://www.wwzc.org/book/translations-anzan-hoshin-roshi-and-others ),

"Having aligned body and mind, exhale deeply. Sitting in balance and stillness like a mountain, think of "not-thinking." How? Be "Before Thinking."
This is the essence of zazen. Zazen is not meditation. It is the Dharma Gate of great ease and joy. It is stainless realized-practice."

Saying the same with more words (Fukanzazengi),

"Once you have found your posture, breathe in and out deeply, sway left and right and then settle firmly and steadily. Think of not-thinking. How do you think of not-thinking? Be Before Thinking. These are the basics of zazen.
What I call zazen is not developing concentration by stages and so on. It is simply the Awakened One's own easy and joyful practice, it is realized-practice within already manifest enlightenment. It is the display of complete reality. Traps and cages spring open. Grasping the heart of this, you are the dragon who has reached his waters, the tiger resting in her mountains. Understand that right here is the display of Vast Reality and then dullness and mental wandering have no place to arise."

He also said (Zanmai-O-Zanmai),

"Sit in the full lotus posture with the body. Sit in the full lotus posture with the mind. Free of "body" and "mind", sit in the full lotus posture.
My late Master, the Old Buddha, said, "Practising Zen is dropping through the bodymind. Just sitting is primordial realization. Offering incense and worshipping the images of the Awakened Ones, chanting the names of the Awakened Ones, repentance, reciting the Discourses and other religious rituals are not necessary.""

At another place (Sankon Zazen Setsu),

"No practice whatsover can be measured against zazen. ... In perfect ease go, stay, sit and lie down. Seeing, hearing, understanding and knowing are all the natural display of the Actual Nature."


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, September 23rd, 2012 at 1:23 AM
Title: Re: Is Eido Tai Shimano's lineage legitimate?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Since the discussion is beyond the original topic, it is now closed.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, September 22nd, 2012 at 6:07 PM
Title: Re: Pointing Out / Systematic Instruction
Content:
monktastic said:
My hang-up before (e.g., in my last few posts) was: why do the Mahamudra masters insist you recognize mind as empty cognizance before attempting to undistractedly nonmeditate? The answer, I suppose, is that it removes two particularly troublesome graspings (that there is something to find and/or something to do). But as long as I understand that all hang-ups are to be released, I don't need to tie myself up in knots worrying about each individual instruction.

Astus wrote:
Kamalashila's (3rd Bhavanakrama, tr. Martin T. Adam) brief explanation of the reason for the necessity of proper discernment in insight meditation:

"Therefore, that which is described in the highest teachings as nonmindfulness and nonattention is to he seen as preceded by the discernment of reality. On account of which, nonmindfulness and nonattention are to be undertaken by way of the discernment of reality, not otherwise. Which is to say that when a yogin observing with perfect wisdom does not see even a single dharma in the three times as ultimately originated, then how in that context could he he mindful and pay attention? For how could that which is ultimately not experienced in the three times he noticed or attended to? Thus this one would have entered into the nonconceptual knowledge in which ail conceptual proliferation has been calmed. And on the basis of that entrance one penetrates emptiness. And on the basis of that penetration there is the abandonment of the net of all false views. And one who is possessed of method, on the basis of adhering to wisdom, is perfectly skilled in conventional and ultimate reality.
Thus it is on the basis of obtaining unobscured knowledge that one understands every single teaching of the Buddha. Hence without the discernment of reality there is no arising of perfect knowledge, nor also the abandonment of the afflictive obscurations."


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 21st, 2012 at 5:42 AM
Title: Re: Is Eido Tai Shimano's lineage legitimate?
Content:
floating_abu said:
Sorry, Astus, the Buddha was talking about the Dharma teachings -- not places of sexual abuse, manipulation and financial irresponsibility.

Astus wrote:
My agreement was with the point of personal investigation. And I referred to this teaching: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.192.than.html.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 20th, 2012 at 4:47 PM
Title: Re: Is Eido Tai Shimano's lineage legitimate?
Content:
Matylda said:
One has to see for oneself. In zen.

Astus wrote:
Indeed. Same thing the Buddha said.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 19th, 2012 at 6:14 PM
Title: Re: Exploring Tibetan Buddhism through a foreign language?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Russian seems like a good choice to have access to materials less known among Western scholars. On the other hand, the traditionally Buddhist people in the Russian Federation speak different languages, although they also know Russian. But if your goal is to have access to a large amount of Buddhist academic works, Chinese or Japanese sounds like a better choice, but perhaps less exotic in the area of Buddhist studies.

Check out this Russian language Buddhist forum: http://dharma.org.ru/board/index.php (you can even find Buddhist books in Russian there).


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 18th, 2012 at 5:38 PM
Title: Re: Dharma and Magic: is the latter necessary?
Content:
catmoon said:
The reason for the demise of magick was a fiendish invention called the controlled experiment. For some reason people decided that to be considered real, a phenomenon should be observable, reproducible, behave consistently and be quantitatively predictable. This style of thinking is responsible for our technological world, where we are surrounded by devices that would have been deemed impossible just a couple of centuries ago. In the same centuries, the competing style of thinking has advanced not one inch. The casters-out of demons of today are indistinguishable from those of centuries gone by, or of millenia gone by, and are no better at their craft or any wiser today than they were before. And one really should ask why.

Astus wrote:
There is another modern idea here to answer why. The idea of progress, of evolving. Does the Dharma require progress, to be better than it was before? No. Neither does magic. In fact, it is generally believed that the ancients knew better. The older the more authentic it is. And this is also reflected in cosmology very well. In science the universe evolved from simple to very complex. In Buddhism, there is just the rebirth of the whole world again and again.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 18th, 2012 at 5:19 PM
Title: Re: Pointing Out / Systematic Instruction
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think the important point about this kind of non-meditation is to not slip into not meditating at all. To remedy that, Gampopa's "thoughts are the dharmakaya" idea is a useful one, that is, in face of everyday events and mental appearances we can work with wisdom and compassion. To manage, we need mindfulness of what goes on. Gradually it becomes effortless and expands to every moment - this is the subject of the four yogas. Pointing out, investigation, study - this is all needed first in order to be clear about what the practice is. But then, once you got it, the only thing left is using it.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 18th, 2012 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: Pointing Out / Systematic Instruction
Content:
Astus wrote:
The division to subject-object comes in when there is the thought/feeling that something is out there and I'm in here. But that thought/feeling (mental content, dharma) is an added quality to simple presence. Even if you recognise that there is this idea of duality, don't worry about it, it is just there. The important point is not to grasp phenomena, not to believe them, not to rely on them (which is not the same as rejecting them, or maintaining a thought of disbelief).

The meaning of the mind being empty is just that there is nothing to rely on, that there is no ultimate nature of mind/self. Doubt appears because there is the idea that one should find some optimal point to hold on to. But as you know, there is nothing to find as the real thing, as the true attainment. Not attaining anything is the real attainment. When the seeking stops it is found, because it is the seeking itself that contains the error. So they say: rest.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 17th, 2012 at 11:26 PM
Title: Re: Dharma and Magic: is the latter necessary?
Content:
Astus wrote:
From Ven. Sheng-yen (in " http://chancenter.org/cmc/publications/free-literature/ "): "Practicing Chan depending solely on one's own efforts without believing in the power of the Buddhas, bodhisattvas, and Dharma-protecting deities cannot be considered practicing Buddhism at all."

Issue raised previously here: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3435


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 17th, 2012 at 10:40 PM
Title: Re: Dharma and Magic: is the latter necessary?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Some thoughts I've gathered on the subject while I was unable to access the site: https://eubuddhist.blogspot.com/2012/09/buddhist-magic.html


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, September 16th, 2012 at 6:12 PM
Title: Re: Pointing Out / Systematic Instruction
Content:
Astus wrote:
In calming meditation you have to avoid disturbances, you have to concentrate not to be disturbed. If merged with vipashyana, resting without abiding on anything, there is no effort made not to be disturbed, because all is seen without being hung up on them. Example: normally one is disgusted by a pile of fresh dung, with concentration one blocks either the object or the feeling, with insight one does not reify the object nor identifies with the feeling and so there is self-liberation.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 12th, 2012 at 5:25 PM
Title: Re: Pointing Out / Systematic Instruction
Content:
Astus wrote:
In the end it is always you who decide what to do. So, you better clarify your motivation when you decide on this or that teaching and practice. Is it because it sounds good, or it fits your previous ideas, or the lama says so, or it works, etc.?

The important thing in calming meditation is to be calm and aware. What tool you use for that is secondary. If you feel it is all contrived, that's fine. Then just let it go. But the more subtle the object the easier it is to lose mindfulness of it and slip into daydreaming. This is something you have to clarify for yourself. Big words and ideas or of little help.

If you are wondering about the things to be discovered in insight meditation, you should rely on the instructions first and then on actual experience. Instructions are your guide but not the experience. Ideas about the instructions are easily misleading. See for yourself, drop the explanations and just look. And if you have doubts, bring them to your teacher. Not to argue about theories, but only to help you find the present truth. You may also just recognise that doubts and the rest are all based on ideas, ideas on thoughts, thoughts just come and go without any problem.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 12th, 2012 at 4:58 PM
Title: Re: Is there a difference between Shin and pure land buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jodo Shinshu is an offshoot of Honen's teachings, and instead of emphasising the practice of nenbutsu it points to faith, shinjin, as the essential requirement of birth in the Pure Land. I don't see that there is a big difference otherwise. As for other practices, they are not important at all, although not forbidden either as long as they strengthen one's faith.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 12th, 2012 at 5:33 AM
Title: Re: Is Eido Tai Shimano's lineage legitimate?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Matylda,

Abuse of social status (i.e. power) is not a matter of being a Buddhist, Hindu, political or any other group. Within a personality cult one individual gains immense influence on others' lives, and such a person then uses his position to his personal advantage while at the same time harming others. And the harm done is not necessarily against the law, but mental and emotional scars can take even longer to heal than physical ones. It is like being cheated by one's friend or spouse. In fact, comparing such a teacher to a bad parent seems quite appropriate. The difference here is that adult men reduce themselves to ignorant children and raise the teacher to the status of a heavenly father.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 12th, 2012 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Dalai Lama on Science
Content:
Astus wrote:
There's been a nice little post on James Ford's blog yesterday: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/monkeymind/2012/09/science-buddhism.html

Also, science is all right with Buddhism as long as it is not equated with materialism. Lokayatikas have been refuted already.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 11th, 2012 at 8:21 PM
Title: Re: Is Eido Tai Shimano's lineage legitimate?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Matylda,

I think the key difference in interpretation is that you say "If I follow the master I follow his teaching.", while many follow not the teachings but rather the teacher. This is of course failing the instruction of the http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Four_reliances. And when they follow the person, his acts become great concern. It also opens the door to all sorts of abuses of power.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 11th, 2012 at 8:10 PM
Title: Re: Pointing Out / Systematic Instruction
Content:
Astus wrote:
As you can find in Mahamudra handbooks, regular checks by a teacher is how the effectiveness of instructions are assured. So, if you have a teacher who you can attend for a longer period, like within a retreat environment, make use of it. Otherwise, study the teachings, not only in Mahamudra manuals, but also works on madhyamaka, sutras, etc. When understanding, realisation and conduct matches what is taught, you see for yourself that the words of the Buddha and the masters are true.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 7th, 2012 at 9:10 PM
Title: Re: Can someone definitively explain to me the differences...?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Anapanasati is a Pali word, and as such, it has its own complete practice in Theravada that covers both samatha and vipassana. In East Asia mindfulness of breath is mostly used only for samatha practice, and as such, it is only for calming the mind.

Zazen means sitting meditation, literally (za - sit; zen - meditate). Meditating in the sitting position can mean any kind of mental training. You can count your breath, just watch it, or be mindful of your body, your thoughts, visualise a buddha, etc.

What people do within the Japanese Rinzai school depends on the lineage and the teacher's instructions. Breath practice is common, sure. It's a kind of preliminary to koan practice. But shikantaza is a different approach, and it's not the same as just objectless meditation. Of course, we can say that ultimately koan practice leads to shikantaza. Or we can also say that shikantaza is mistaken and koan practice is correct. It depends on who you ask.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 7th, 2012 at 4:55 PM
Title: Re: Political angle to the Chan Vs Dzogchen debate
Content:
Astus wrote:
There are many esoteric texts translated to Chinese, including late tantras like Hevajra and Cakrasamvara. As Tiger mentioned, the imperial court had connection with Tibetan teachers from the 13th century on.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 7th, 2012 at 4:44 PM
Title: Re: Can someone definitively explain to me the differences...?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Samatha - meditation with the aim to calm the mind, usually by focusing on a single object
Vipassana - meditation with the aim to gain wisdom, usually by different methods of analysis of different subjects
Zazen - it means sitting meditation, doesn't qualify anything beyond that in and of itself
Anapanasati - it means awareness of breathing in and out, there are different forms of this practice in both Theravada and Mahayana
Shikantaza - a practice specific to Soto Zen where there is no object maintained nor analysis performed
Samadhi - it basically means the state of concentrated mind, can also mean a specific attainment within meditation depending on context

There are some glossaries you can use to look up basic words, like this one: http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism/glossary.html, and on Wikipedia that has links to further articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_Buddhism


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 7th, 2012 at 4:10 PM
Title: Re: Political angle to the Chan Vs Dzogchen debate
Content:
Astus wrote:
Good question. However, it's good to remember that the times when Chan was popular on a larger level - i.e. outside of monasteries - was primarily because of connections to the secular elite. Rituals and ceremonies are abundant in Chinese Buddhism, and Chinese culture, even without any Vajrayana ideology, so it doesn't sound the right argument here for the reasons of Tantric teachings not being popular.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 7th, 2012 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: Learning to recite the nenbutsu
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thank you for sharing. Any more?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 7th, 2012 at 3:23 AM
Title: Re: Buddha nature misunderstood as atman.
Content:
Astus wrote:
First, buddha-nature is meant to be misunderstood as a real permanent self. Why else would it be appealing to those who have not yet taken refuge in the Three Jewels? Second, buddha-nature is a convenient explanation of the unborn nature of the qualities of a buddha. Third, buddha-nature points to the fact that the path is about removing the obscurations and not about generating some imagined enlightenment. Fourth, buddha-nature requires neither purification nor realisation, therefore resting the mind without contriving anything is all that is needed.

"[And finally] by two reasons the Supreme Eternity is to be known: 1) Because he does not fall into the Nihilistic Extremity through his not diminishing, neglecting the non-eternal Phenomenal Life; 2) nor does he fall into the Eternalistic Extremity through his not intensifying the eternal Nirvāṇa.
It is said as follows: "If someone would perceive that all the Phenomenal Worlds are non-eternal, O Lord, this view would be a Nihilistic Perception. It would never be the true perception at all. If someone would perceive that the Nirvāṇa is eternal, O Lord, this view would be an Eternalistic Perception. And it would never be the True Perception at all"."
(Ratnagotravibhaga, v. 38, tr. Jikido Takasaki)

"Thinking that permanent and blissful nirvana is transformed into the characteristics of suffering, they rush seeking after it all the time. Taking pity on such [people], the Buddha indicated the true blissfulness of nirvana: if [even] for an instant there is no characteristic of generation and if [even] for an instant there is no characteristic of extinction, then there will be no generation and extinction that can be extinguished. This is to have quiescence right there. But if when it is right there, one does not have the thought of it being right there, this is called permanent and blissful. This bliss is not experienced and it is not not experienced. How can there be the categories of one essence and five functions? And how could one possibly speak of nirvana contravening the myriad dharmas and rendering them permanently ungenerated? This is to revile the Buddha and destroy the Dharma."
(Platform Sutra, ch. 7, tr. John R. McRae)

"I expound the dharma of mind-ground, which enters the secular and the sacred, the pure and the defi led, the real and the temporal. But your ‘real and temporal,’ your ‘secular and sacred,’ cannot attach labels to all that is real and temporal, secular and sacred. Th e real and the temporal, the secular and the sacred, cannot attach a name to this person. Followers of the Way, grasp and use, but never name this is called the ‘mysterious principle’."
(Record of Linji, ch. 11, tr. Ruth Fuller Sasaki)

"Therefore, that the grasses, trees, thickets and groves are impermanent is the buddha nature; that humans and things, body and mind are impermanent — this is because they are the buddha nature. That the lands, mountains, and rivers are impermanent — this is the buddha nature. Annuttara-samyak-saṃbodhi, because it is the buddha nature, is impermanent; the great parinirvāṇa, because it is impermanent, is the buddha nature."
(Shobogenzo, Buddha Nature, tr. Carl Bielefeldt)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 6th, 2012 at 4:35 PM
Title: Re: Is Eido Tai Shimano's lineage legitimate?
Content:
Astus wrote:
In that area I'd rather recommend the http://mro.org/ of the late Daido roshi. There is also the http://www.dharmadrumretreat.org/ you could consider. They are both established communities with strong monastic lines.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 4th, 2012 at 8:31 PM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
DarwidHalim,

Theravada recognises the difference between a buddha and an arhat, in terms of certain qualities and abilities, but not in liberation. The reason of their difference, just as in early Mahayana, is that a bodhisattva accumulates immeasurable merits through aeons of practice. Sudden teachings say that there is no need for such a long process, that they have a superior teaching, therefore buddhahood is accessible (in this life, in the intermediate state, or the next life) because of the inherent buddha-nature.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 4th, 2012 at 5:40 PM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
DarwidHalim,

The quote from the Tao of Sudden Enlightenment is a text written by Dazhu Huihai who was a disciple of Mazu and so a contemporary of Baizhang, master of Huangbo, in the same Hongzhou school. It's nothing to do with Taoism. That's why I've chosen that as a good source of explaining the teaching of no mind.

As for your explanation with statue, you successfully made up several levels of reification. Fortunately, madhyamaka uses only two truths, even if Jizang (Chinese reformer of madhyamaka) created a 4×2 truths system. One is stuck in ignorance as long as there is grasping a concept. Without abiding in any idea, there is freedom. Even if you create a hundred levels of larger and smaller areas of conceptual attachment, it's still mental proliferation. Without proliferation there is nirvana (MMK 18.5), it is the buddha (MMK 22.15). The ending of objectification, proliferation is within the scope of arhats too (DN 21, MN 18, SN 22.53).

By the way. prasanga is just a method, and those who apply that to teach people are the prasangika. Other forms of teaching, like mind only and even abhidharma, are used to bring people to liberation, freedom from attachment to ideas, and not just an idea of liberation.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 4th, 2012 at 2:59 AM
Title: Re: Panendharmism, anyone ?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Let's put into simpler terms. Amita Buddha is available to everyone because any human is capable of faith. He is also available in meditation, as it is described in the Visualisation Sutra. In fact, the very name in recitation is the presence of Amita Buddha, as that is what appears in one's perception. The fact that the Buddha's light reaches everywhere means that all are embraced and there is no hindrance formed by any karma. It doesn't mean that Amita Buddha is present everywhere, since he is in the Pure Land.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 4th, 2012 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
DarwidHalim,

Entering The Tao of Sudden Enlightenment by Huihai (tr. Lok To) explains the meaning,

"No thought means no mind grasping anything whatsoever. It is being without any view whatever, not even the thought of seeking something or not seeking anything. Having no thought means that in the face of any object or form, not even a single thought arises. This being-without-thought is called Real Mind. However, if one grasps the thought that this being-without-thought is the Real Mind, then it is not right thought but merely the wrong view."

This is perfectly in agreement with Nagarjuna's explanation of emptiness as being free of views. How do you make differences here? Is there a higher and lower freedom from views, higher and lower non-attachment?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 3rd, 2012 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
DarwidHalim,

Practice is based on theory. Now, as you say, people can and do misunderstand the teachings. That doesn't make the teachings any different. Some realise it easily, others slowly. It makes no difference in that everybody has to go through the no gate. It is about this that Huangbo says (Chung-Ling Record, tr. Lok To):

"Some students attain the state of liberated Mind quickly, some slowly.  After listening to a Dharma talk, some reach "no mind" directly.  In contrast, some must first pass gradually through the ten grades of Bodhisattva faith, the Dasabhumi of Bodhisattva development, and the ten stages before attaining the Perfectly Awakened Mind.  Whether one takes a long or a short time, however, once attained, "no mind" can never be lost."


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 3rd, 2012 at 8:39 PM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
DarwidHalim,

Let me then clarify what sudden path is as I see it. The first thing is to realise the nature of mind. The mind is buddha, there is no further thing to develop or remove, it's originally pure. Therefore, the path is to keep the buddha-mind. No practices, no techniques. And the attainment is the very same buddha-mind, nothing more or less. Even in Jinul's teachings, where seeing nature is only the 1st stage of 52 stages, the only thing to do is to maintain the clear view. No further practices. Why? Because the initial realisation is already complete. If one had to apply methods then it would not be any different from the common gradual teachings.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 3rd, 2012 at 5:11 PM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
DarwidHalim,

The usual metaphors for what you're saying is the sun at dawn and the sun at noon, the view from the bottom of a well and the whole view of the sky, the light of firefly and the light of the sun, the space in a mustard seed and the space of the whole sky.

What is the problem with that? You can't quantify ultimate reality. How can the simile still work? If it is not understood as insight into the nature of things but as gradual removal of hindrances, the way the ten fetters are used to differentiate between sravaka aryas. However, in this case the argument is the one on the gradual path, making sudden techniques (primarily Chan and Tantra) skilful baits at best, fake at worst. And I'm not saying this is good or bad, it just makes later developments based on tathagatagarbha doctrine superficial.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 3rd, 2012 at 3:52 AM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
SSJ3Gogeta said:
How is this the Ratnagotravibhaga?  I'm reading the footnote 191.  I don't get it.

Astus wrote:
Check the Bibliography on page 835.

"The Sublime Continuum. (Ratnagotravibhagamahayanottaratantrasastra. Theg pa chen po’i rgyud bla ma) Sanskrit edition by Edward H. Johnston. Patna, India: The Bihar Research Society, 1950 (includes the Ratnagotravibhagavyakhya). P5525. ACIP TD4024."


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 3rd, 2012 at 3:43 AM
Title: Re: Chinese language and Buddhism
Content:
mutsuk said:
The point is that the chinese language lacks subtleties for carrying the teachings.

Astus wrote:
I don't really see how that can happen. I mean, on one hand, languages are different and there's nothing new about that. There are things impossible to translate because of such differences, but explanation is still possible. On the other, languages work perfectly well for all human cultures to express whatever is experienced, felt, thought. I haven't yet heard that translating from Sanskrit, Tibetan, Chinese, Mongolian, or any other language to English is not possible to be done accurately, despite the huge differences. So what makes Chinese language itself inferior? What subtlety exists in Sanskrit and English that is missing from Chinese?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 3rd, 2012 at 2:31 AM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
SSJ3Gogeta said:
This is probably the stupidest thing I ever read on this forum.

You should read "Center of the Sunlit Sky" by Karl B.

Madhyamaka is the foundation of Vajrayana and Mahamudra.

Astus wrote:
Karl Brunnhölzl presents the Kagyü interpretation of madhyamaka, where there is also an "emptiness endowed with the supreme of all aspects." (p. 115f). Also, regarding Mahamudra, "Gampopa, Pamo Truba (1110–1170), Jigden Sumgön (1143–1217), and many others have said that "the treatise of our Mahamudra is this Treatise of the Sublime Continuum of the Great Vehicle composed by the Blessed One Maitreya."" (p. 57), which is also called Ratnagotravibhaga, the classical shastra on tathagatagarbha doctrine. Gampopa starts his Jewel Ornament of Liberation with stating the existence of buddha-nature. Brunnhölzl's teacher, Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche is famous for his teaching of Zhentong, that is again takes buddha-nature as a fundamental doctrine, and he confirms it as the basis of Vajrayana in his commentary on the Uttaratantra Shastra (Buddha Nature, p. 305-306).


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 3rd, 2012 at 1:44 AM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
viniketa said:
but the hierarchical rankings come primarily from commentarial literature, do they not?  There is probably something I am missing, here...

Astus wrote:
The Lotus Sutra is the number one source of the hierarchical structure of liberation, where sravakas attain only a fake nirvana before they turn to the bodhisattva path.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 3rd, 2012 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Jnana said:
A pragmatic approach is, well, practical.... But it seems that a bodhisattva is still required to develop a number of capabilities that aren't necessary for an arhat liberated through discernment. For example, the first five of the six higher knowledges and samyaksaṃbodhi. These differences are also accepted by Theravāda, Sarvāstivāda, etc.

Astus wrote:
There are differences explained in all traditions all right. However, in order to be inclusive, looking at the existing and the disappeared traditions, what actual practices are prescribed and followed don't show different ways. One important idea, however, is an exception. And that is post-enlightenment practices. For an arhat, that's the end of the story, and there are no further instructions. For a bodhisattva, it is the beginning of accumulating infinite merits. So what mahayana adds is a programme for enlightened ones. Or, it is not a prescription but a description. That is, those who have attained liberation are still active as we can see both from old texts and among today's teachers. A third option is that the bodhisattva teaching is a cure for those who failed to apply the teachings to social life. Fourth option is that it's a later technique to bring more people to the Dharma. All of these and more can be said and put together - i.e. all can be true at the same time - as a natural development of Buddhism.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 3rd, 2012 at 1:20 AM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
DarwidHalim said:
FOr example, you can say that you don't have any attachment to a piece of paper. But, you always see this white stuff as paper. WHen you see that white stuff, immediately the idea of paper appear in you, and you again think yes this is paper, so it against imprint in you. There is no attachment there. But, there is something like assertion.

They are indeed this word of "With this one can argue saying that arhats are not free from all attachments, practically making arhats not free from samsara but stuck in the illusion of liberation; or say that tathagatagarbha teachings are only provisional, turning sudden paths into illusory baits."

But if you see the teaching like Nagarjuna, Chandrakirti, they don't say something like that. Those sentences are more to personal view.

Astus wrote:
You say that there is attachment to the concept of paper. Again, that is attachment to the mental aggregates, since the concept and even the visual impression occurs within the aggregates. But such attachment is not possible, or it is not liberation. Assertion, as they say in madhyamaka, is the extreme of existence, and negation is the extreme of non-existence. These are the basics of mistaken views, and views exist in the aggregates.

Nagarjuna is early mahayana, and Chandrakirti did not follow the tathagatagarbha teachings either.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 3rd, 2012 at 12:36 AM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
SSJ3Gogeta said:
Um, I accept Allan Wallace is a great practitioner.  But like Malcolm pointed out, he is wrong on some stuff.

Astus wrote:
"However defined, the essence of enlightenment corresponds to what in tantra is called “actuality” or the “causal continuum” (rgyu’i rgyud, hetu tantra), the original ground of being to be recognized as enlightenment itself. Thus, when we consider the above three aspects of tantra, it becomes apparent that tantra is based primarily on the theory of the essence of enlightenment or tath›gatagarbha. Although ancient practices of pre Buddhist origin were absorbed into the Buddhist tantric systems, it is this theory of Buddhist origin—the essence of enlightenment—that may be said to be the fundamental basis, or core teaching, from which tantra developed."
(Jamgön Kongtrul: Systems of Buddhist Tantra, p. 18)

"The most essential point in the Vajrayana is the buddha nature, and all Vajrayana practices are based on understanding this."
(Ringu Tulku: Confusion Arises As Wisdom, p. 97)

"The sole subject of the Vajrayana teachings is to show us how to aweken and realize this buddha-nature. There is nothing more than that."
(Ringu Tulku: Daring Steps, p. 21)

"Directly realising mind's nature and removing the afflictions generated in mind is the Vajrayana approach."
(Kalu Rinpoche: Luminous Mind, p. 174)

"Among the vehicles taught by the Buddha, both the mahayana and vajrayana lead to enlightenment; the main difference is that the mahayana is a more gradual path, whereas the vajrayana directly reveals the nature of mind."
(Khenchen Sherab: The Buddhist Path, p. 79)

"The view that buddha nature is the essential nature of each and every being is common to the Mahayana os the sutras, or Paramitayana, and to the Vajrayana, or Tantrayana. The Vajrayana goes into detail about what this means. Vajrayana explains that buddha nature is the innate presence of the source of all the realms and bodies of all buddhas and that these are innate within us. It talks about the presence of this as dakas and dakinis and so on. The Vajrayana explanation is essentially saying the same thing as the sutras. It is just saying it in a little bit more detail."
(Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche: Karma Chakme's Mountain Dharma, vol 1, p. 65)

"In essence, the secret-mantra vajrayana can be understood in terms of ground, path, and fruition. Regarding the ground, the minds of all sentient beings are pervaded by the tathagatagarbha."
(Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche: Pure Appearance, p. 1)


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 3rd, 2012 at 12:07 AM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Malcolm said:
All we are left with is empty appearances: they are not real because no existence, etc., can be ascertained regarding them; they are not unreal since they appear. All we can say about them is that they arise in dependence.

Astus wrote:
The very same idea is in the early texts, where the below section is followed by the teaching of dependent arising.

"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one" (SN 12.15)

Same thing in the http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/English-Texts/Short-Pieces-in-Sanskrit/Fourth-Discourse.htm,

"The processes arise and the processes cease, they arise with causes and conditions, and they cease with causes and conditions. There is the view about causes, and the view about continuity in existence, ‘with causes processes arise’, monks, seeing this with right wisdom as it really is there will be no existence-view or eternity-view; ‘with causes processes cease’, monks, seeing this with right wisdom as it really is there will be no extinction view, or annihilation view. So not having approached either of these two extremes, monks, the Realised One teaches the Dhamma which is a middle practice"


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, September 2nd, 2012 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
DarwidHalim,

In brief, it goes like this. The nikayas describe that both arhat and buddha attain the same liberation, but there are differences between arhats in terms of other abilities and the buddha is perfect in all the different abilities. Then, as understood by the early schools and early Mahayana, the special qualities of a buddha are developed on the aeons of practising the paramitas as a bodhisattva, but that attainment in terms of liberation are still the same. Then in later Mahayana with the idea of a single vehicle they created a hierarchy of liberations, at which point arhats eventually become bodhisattvas. With further development of buddha-nature concept occurred the option of a short cut path to buddhahood, thus appeared Chan and later Vajrayana. With this we come to a full circle in that the desired attainment is available in a single lifetime but now with all the special abilities.

It is on the basis of the buddha-nature teaching that it becomes possible to say that with becoming free from attachment simply by realising the nature of mind all the buddha qualities are present. This is the fundamental idea of all sudden teachings that are believed to be the ultimate and supreme methods by the majority of Mahayana followers. From this it is just one more step to say that since an arhat is free from attachment there is complete enlightenment. And this is what I did here. With this one can argue saying that arhats are not free from all attachments, practically making arhats not free from samsara but stuck in the illusion of liberation; or say that tathagatagarbha teachings are only provisional, turning sudden paths into illusory baits.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, September 2nd, 2012 at 9:51 PM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jnana,

So did Yinshun emphasise the early Mahayana view of a long path and criticised all the later ideas of instant methods. If I take this a little further - while I'm not very familiar with Yinshun's teachings - it is as he quotes Taixu in Human Centered Buddhism (p. 48) that "Chinese Buddhism has been speaking the Mahayana doctrines and yet practicing the Hinayana way.", this applies to all who say there is liberation close at hand. In fact, if we can say that many Mahayana ideas were already present in mainstream schools like the Dharmaguptaka, Mahasanghika, etc., then it is the sravakayana everywhere in shiny buddha robes. But this is just a side note here. Unlike Yinshun, I prefer the idea of a single vehicle, where the paths are not separate or hierarchical, but provisional in form and one in nature.

DarwidHalim,

Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche's book is wonderful. And if you think about sravakas in such texts not as some followers of this or that school, but as clearly wrong interpretations of people, it turns out that such criticisms have meaning and they are meant for the present audience.

Do you mean that an arhat sees that ultimately flowers are empty, it's just that he still thinks there is a real relative flower? If so, that's a faulty interpretation of emptiness, or rather a linguistic sophistry. You know the Zen story of Shakyamuni raising the flower and not saying anything. Did he or did he not grasp the flower? If he grasped it, do you think it was because of seeing characters? If he did not grasp it, how was it possible for him to raise the flower? To hold on to the idea that every experience are just illusion, that is indeed wrong. But if arhats are attached to such a concept, it means their failure to see the emptiness of concepts, and that means attachment to mental aggregates. Thus liberation is not possible for them.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, September 2nd, 2012 at 9:13 PM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
DarwidHalim,

All three doors of liberation are known to arhats, and that includes signlessness (SN 40.9). As a sutta (AN 6.13) says, "Don't misrepresent the Blessed One, for it's not right to misrepresent the Blessed One, and the Blessed One wouldn't say that. It's impossible, there is no way that — when the signless has been developed, pursued, handed the reins and taken as a basis, given a grounding, steadied, consolidated, and well-undertaken as an awareness-release — consciousness would follow the drift of signs. That possibility doesn't exist, for this is the escape from all signs: the signless as an awareness-release.'"

I agree that Mahayana scriptures and treatises say that sravakas realise only the emptiness of self. The definition I have referred to already, so I'm not debating it at all. What I say is that this is only a methodical difference, because the early texts, especially abhidharma works, teach insight meditation primarily by analysing seemingly simple phenomena into parts to highlight their constructed nature. Like for your example of flower, it is not really a flower but only form elements. And then phenomenal emptiness means that even form elements are constructed, they are unreal, only nominal. This is, however, is confirmed in the early works by agreeing that the form elements are constructed, and that they cease in nirvana. Otherwise we would have to say that an arhat, instead of thinking that the body is the self, thinks that the elements are the self, which is nonsense. More on the point that arhats realise the selflessness of phenomena see Wangchuk Dorje's reasonings and quotations in his commentary on the Madhyamakavatara, chapter on the first bhumi (The Karmapa's Middle Way, p. 107-112).

Clinging to any of the four extreme views means having a wrong view and being bound to samsara. If arhats were attached to the view of non-existence, they would be annihilationists, which excludes even ordinary men from correct understanding, not to mention noble ones.

As for the rejection of Mahayana sutras, it is a questionable statement. First of all, in the agamas and nikayas there is no mention of Mahayana works, so rejection of them is not possible. Beyond that, how many arhats do you know who refuted Mahayana sutras? As for doctrinal debates, you have plenty of them within Mahayana itself.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, September 2nd, 2012 at 6:22 PM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Comments regarding well known ideas how arhats are inferior to bodhisattvas, bodhisattvas to buddhas, sutrayana to vajrayana, well, those are just repetitions but not arguments. They are statements that you don't agree with the conclusion, which is fine, but it fails to consider all the points that led to the conclusion. Therefore, it does not address the issue raised.

Those who raised issues about different realisations, please consider points 1 and 3 in the OP first. To put it briefly, there is only one suchness to be realised and there can't be more than that. Not grasping a single view can't be diversified into different forms of non-attachment. At the same time, if there is any clinging, there is still suffering and no liberation of any kind.

There is the difference made between emptiness of person and emptiness of phenomena. This is then related to removing emotional and cognitive obscurations. The first means seeing that there is no self but only the five aggregates, the second is that the five aggregates are also without identity. This, however, is a methodical difference only. Why? Not grasping a self means not being attached to any of the aggregates. Not clinging to aggregates is their emptiness realised. Regarding this see Mulamadhyamakakarika, chapter 18, and the Khandhavagga (SN 22; or just suttas 1, 47, 95 in that section).

DarwidHalim said:
If we see the understanding of emptiness, there are 2 things:
1. Understanding the nature as what it is.
2. Understanding how the nature can appear as such.

Astus wrote:
This is separating emptiness and appearances, impermanence and dependent origination, essence and function. Such a separation is valid for gradual intellectual understanding and faults of grasping emptiness as a thing and falling into carelessness. Not valid for genuine insight that is referred to here.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, September 1st, 2012 at 1:47 AM
Title: Re: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Such a distinction between the emptiness of self and phenomena is everywhere, and used as an explanation about the elimination of emotional and cognitive hindrances. And that's why I quoted the view of seeing one is seeing all.

Regarding the special qualities of buddhas, as you can see in both Chan and Vajrayana, and in the doctrine of buddha-nature, all of them have been internalised as qualities of the mind one can discover with realising the nature of mind.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 31st, 2012 at 10:40 PM
Title: Unorthodox Ideas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here are some twisted concepts I'd like to discuss.

1. Prajnaparamita, Madhyamaka and Mahamudra

As Karl Brunnhölzl explains (Straight from the Heart, p. 132f; and The Center of the Sunlit Sky, p. 52f) the meaning of the prajnaparamita teachings, of madhyamaka and what was later known as sutra mahamudra is identical in realisation. Same can be seen from Gampopa (Jewel Ornamnet of Liberation, p. 247f) equating them.

2. Inferential and Direct Method

Thrangu Rinpoche says (e.g. Pointing Out the Dharmakaya, p. 56; Essentials of Mahamudra, p. 46) that the sutra path takes long time because it applies inferential methods to realise emptiness while mahamudra is direct. However, a conceptual understanding of emptiness has never been accepted by the prajnaparamita sutras or madhyamika teachers as the true wisdom, that is also clear from point 1. Even in terms of method, as we can see in Kamalashila's meditation instruction (Stages of Meditation, p. 130-133), the analysis of mind itself is part of sutra vipashyana just as resting in suchness. To this we can also add that Chan is a direct method too that is in harmony with prajnaparamita sutras.

3. Emptiness of One is Emptiness of All

Tashi Namgyal states and backs it up with quotes (Mahamudra: The Moonlight, p. 199-200) that realising the emptiness of mind is realising the emptiness of all things. Since true realisation is not a conceptual idea of the emptiness of this and that, but awareness without abiding on any referential point, differentiations of emptiness from two to twenty are only for the sake of explanation. Therefore, whether one sees the emptiness of self or any phenomenon, the result is the same wisdom.

4. Unity of Emptiness and Compassion

In truth, emptiness and compassion cannot be separated from each other (e.g. King of Samadhi, p. 91; and Mahamudra and Related Instructions, p. 269f), therefore with the realisation of one both are attained. From this comes that with attainment of insight into the emptiness of self unbound compassion is also achieved.

5. Arhat, Buddha, Bodhisattva

Adding all the above up, it turns out that with the single realisation of emptiness of self there is all that can be realised and attained. Then the differentiations between paths and results are rendered provisional.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 31st, 2012 at 3:28 PM
Title: Re: Panendharmism, anyone ?
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is sad to see that people who fail to study Buddhist sutras and shastras start coming up with strange ideas to fill in the gap in their understanding. Naturally, where they end up is confusion.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 30th, 2012 at 3:13 PM
Title: Re: Will Buddhism become redundant?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Science deals with understanding and manipulating matter. Buddhism is about becoming free from suffering. Science can help in alleviating physical problems and even some mental disorders. Buddhism touches upon the subject of matter in refuting materialism/physicalism and in pointing to its basic qualities as impermanent, suffering, selfless and emptiness. Beyond those, natural science and Buddhism are separate fields of knowledge and practice.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 30th, 2012 at 5:35 AM
Title: Re: Doing zazen but drawn to Pure Land,
Content:
Astus wrote:
The book http://www.ymba.org/monkey/monkyfrm.htm is very brief and gives a good list of buddha remembrance practices. It shows how all the different methods can be found in a single practice. It says, "In alert, focused Buddha recitation there is samatha, vipassana, samadhi, wisdom - each recitation is perfect. Where else can Zen be found if not here?" This refers to the same practice that is mentioned in Buddhism of Wisdom and Faith under Real Mark Buddha Recitation (5.29.1).

Another work related to both Zen and Pure Land practice is "Doubts and Questions about Pure Land Practice" that you find in http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/pureland.pdf.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 30th, 2012 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: Odd Sensation
Content:
Astus wrote:
Then no need to worry about it or think to much of it. Of course, you may also make this situation a subject of your meditation, and look at it whether there is really a difference between breath and no breath.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 30th, 2012 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: Doing zazen but drawn to Pure Land,
Content:
Astus wrote:
Pure Land and Chan are simply two styles of practice. They are not incompatible at all, as one can see in China, Korea and Vietnam. In Tiantai teachings one can find both forms. The only point where they seem to be separate is when people think of them as exclusive methods. The first person in Buddhism who came up with the very idea of an exclusive practice was Honen. But even in his view exclusivity didn't mean invalidating or rejecting other methods, it was about focusing initially on the single practice of reciting the name and that in itself was sufficient to attain birth in Honen's view.

Doing zazen only can be a path to the Pure Land as long as you dedicate all the merits gained to attaining birth there. Adding to it the nenbutsu is also fine. Also, you can simply do the nenbutsu and it can be both a Zen practice and a way to the Pure Land. As far as the Pure Land path is concerned, what matters is your faith and dedication to it. As for Zen practice, what matters is the living wisdom. Since both are methods on the bodhisattva path with the aim of complete enlightenment, there is no contradiction.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 28th, 2012 at 6:42 PM
Title: Re: Odd Sensation
Content:
Astus wrote:
By breathless you mean you feel choking or that you don't recognise the breath? If it's the second one, no problem, just leave it as it is, it is a sign of calmness. If the first one, observe what changes, what makes you feel in need of air, try to breathe through the mouth.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, August 26th, 2012 at 5:34 AM
Title: Re: How can Zen be considered it's own thing...
Content:
Astus wrote:
Zen sickness refers to false understandings, attachments to wrong views and meditation experiences. It is not some common disease, insanity, obsession, or any of the kind that ordinary people suffer from. In fact, those who cling to some view regarding their realisation usually feel that it is the correct attainment. This can be remedied by a clear eyed teacher, or sufficient study and practice, or both at the same time.

"In my school, there are only two kinds of sickness. One is to go looking for a donkey riding on the donkey. The other is to be unwilling to dismount once having mounted the donkey."
(Foyan in Instant Zen, p. 4)


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, August 25th, 2012 at 12:59 AM
Title: Re: How do mind-streams interact?
Content:
mirage said:
I feel like I almost understand you here, but in fact I probably do not. Do you mean that there is a deeper "level" beneath eight individual consciousnesses, on which mind-streams cease to be distinct?

Astus wrote:
No, there's no hidden consciousness. What I'm saying is that consciousness-only does not mean that there are only floating minds in this world without a physical realms, that's a different view, not a Buddhist one. Consciousness-only means that there is neither object nor subject.

Vasubandhu says at the end of the Trimsika (tr. KOCHUMUTTOM):

"One does not abide in the realization
Of mere representations of consciousness
Just on account of the [theoretical] perception
That all this is mere representation of consciousness,
If one places [ = sees] something before oneself.
One does abide in the realization
Of mere [representation of] consciousness
When one does not perceive also a supporting
consciousness,
For, the graspable objects being absent,
There cannot either be the grasping o f that,
[Namely, the grasping of the supporting consciousness].
That indeed is the supramundane knowledge
When one has no mind that knows,
And no object for its support;"

And in the Lankavatara Sutra (tr. Suzuki):

"The personal soul, continuity, the Skandhas, causation, atoms, the supreme spirit, the ruler, the creator, —[they are] discriminations in the Mind-only."
(XXIX)

"clinging to the memory (vasana) of erroneous speculations and doctrines since beginningless time, they hold fast to ideas such as oneness and otherness, being and non-being, and their thoughts are not at all clear about what is seen of Mind-only."
(XXXV)


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, August 25th, 2012 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: How do mind-streams interact?
Content:
mirage said:
Well, the question is the same: if both of us see an apple, that means I have experience of apple, and you have a (different) experience of apple. Then I eat the apple, and your experience of it changes (disappears). What made your experience change?

Astus wrote:
When we talk about me, you and apple, that is the imagined reality. There is no understanding of consciousness-only here. If it is understood in terms of consciousness-only, the ideas of an external apple and you, and an internal me, they are all just ideas and not distinct entities. So, if you don't mix up these two, there is no problem at all.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 24th, 2012 at 11:23 PM
Title: Re: How do mind-streams interact?
Content:
mirage said:
Not spatially - just separate. Our minds are clearly separate in some way, otherwise our experience would be the same.

Astus wrote:
What separates them? If you mean that they are not the same experiences, yes, that is true. But how is that a problem?

mirage said:
That would be a bit disappointing.

Astus wrote:
Explanations have limited value. Explanations of the world are only as good as their efficacy in creating peace and wisdom. Buddhist teachings are not meant to be used as philosophical statements or scientific observations. They are practical guidelines. They are like recipes - they tell you what and how to cook, you can't eat the paper. On the other hand, the understanding that all views are conventional, relative and mind made, is quite a coherent teaching.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 24th, 2012 at 9:58 PM
Title: Re: How do mind-streams interact?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is the teaching of three natures (trisvabhava) in Yogacara that you should consider here. On the imaginary level it is just like for everyone else. On the dependent level all is interrelated, phenomena are dependent on perception. Being dependent on perception doesn't mean that nothing exists beyond that, it just means that mind defines and interprets what one perceives. And on the ultimate level ideas of perception and perceiver are understood to be interpretations and ideas only. In the end, there is not even a mind one can conceive.

The problem raised, the interaction of mind-streams, is based on the assumption that there are physically-spatially distinct minds. But minds are not bound by space or time, they are immaterial. Another problem here is the idea that Yogacara - or Buddhism generally - should give a comprehensive philosophy. But it doesn't have anything like that. It is the path of liberation, all teachings are meant to assist in getting rid of grasping at thoughts and emotions.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 23rd, 2012 at 7:12 PM
Title: Re: Why follow one tradition of Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The goal is to be free from suffering. The means to that is realising emptiness. Whether you get to realisation by vipassana, koan or deity meditation, how could it matter? It's just personal preferences, karma.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 23rd, 2012 at 3:57 PM
Title: Re: Power of Vows of Buddha Amitabha?
Content:
Astus wrote:
If Amita Buddha were only a symbol then aspiration to be born in the Pure Land is meaningless and useless. It is also questioning the whole bodhisattva path. The result is then a simple calming practice of reciting the name that can bring some inner peace while one focuses on recitation, but nothing more. It is certainly not a path to liberation in a Buddhist sense.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 22nd, 2012 at 10:32 PM
Title: Re: Vows in Theravada, Mahayana, and Vajrayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm no monk, but actually anyone can check on the numbers, and those who have some interest in these matters, know them.

So, Theravada Patimokkha contains 227 rules for bhikkhus (and 311 for bhikkhunis). Dharmaguptaka Pratimoksha (China, Korea, Vietnam) has 250 rules for bhikshus and 348 for bhikshunis. Mulasarvastivadin Pratimoksha (Tibet, Bhutan, Mongolia) has 253 rules for bhikshus (and 346 for bhikshunis).

Beyond those above in East Asia there are the bodhisattva vows of the Brahma Net Sutra (10+48 precepts), and Vajrayana followers in Tibet, etc., take a different set of bodhisattva precepts (18+46) and there are further Tantric commitments (usually 14 common root vows and further more depending on one's practice).


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 22nd, 2012 at 8:31 PM
Title: Re: Affliction is Bodhi?
Content:
Astus wrote:
All thoughts and emotions, whether positive, negative or neutral, are empty. Seeing that they are unborn, empty, etc. is bodhi. Thus afflictions are not different from bodhi, bodhi is not found anywhere else. Bodhi is not the elimination of all thoughts and emotions but the realisation of their emptiness, i.e. not grasping them, not identifying with them.

This is not specifically a Chan teaching but common Mahayana actually. So you can even read about it in the sutras. What makes it Chan is the view that people can simply realise this without special preparatory training. That's because the mind is originally pure and it needs no development. Just realise that the mind is so and that is all.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 22nd, 2012 at 7:00 AM
Title: Re: Power of Vows of Buddha Amitabha?
Content:
Astus wrote:
First, buddhas throughout the ten directions are real beings. Zen followers also pray to buddhas, bodhisattvas, Dharma protectors and even to local deities at some places. Saying that buddhas and all appearances are mind doesn't mean you just imagine yourself a big house and you then live in a big house. Where you live right now is a mental phenomenon simply because it is your experience. Contemplating on this is the path of wisdom. The path of Pure Land - if we use such a distinction - is focusing on attaining birth in the Land of Peace and Bliss. Within this you may also find different approaches and methods, you can choose whichever you like. The vows of Amita Buddha define his specialities as a buddha. The power of the vows means that those who have faith in them and rely on them are assisted by Amita Buddha. This is not a matter of imagination. Although people can imagine a dragon, but nobody is afraid of them because dragons are not real. However, if you think about the dangers of crossing a street, you don't think it's all just a fantasy. This is quite an important difference.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 22nd, 2012 at 5:09 AM
Title: Re: Why follow one tradition of Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is new not because of the availability of information - in fact, the majority of Buddhist canonical and extra-canonical works are still untranslated - but because of this idea of "tradition". To give an example, in Chan they talk about lineage, and Chan teachers are thought of in terms of being members of this or that lineage. So we can say that there are different traditions. What people forget here is that the whole lineage issue exists only for abbots. All the other monks and the laity are simply Buddhists who study and practise various things. This reductionist view that if somebody prefers Chan (note, even Chan can mean many different things) then studying Yogacara and visualising Avalokitesvara are excluded is simply mistaken.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 21st, 2012 at 4:14 PM
Title: Re: How can Zen be considered it's own thing...
Content:
Astus wrote:
And what is the point? You say that it only matters if a teacher "realises it". But the fact of realisation can't be discerned by others, and not even the object of realisation is defined. So it is like not saying anything. You claim that neither ethics nor wisdom matters in a teacher. This way there is no meaning of the title "Zen teacher". Considering this non-defined concept, anyone could just be called Zen teacher and there would be no way to debate its validity.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 21st, 2012 at 6:05 AM
Title: Re: Why follow one tradition of Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
If you look into what are called traditions you find that they are combinations and systematisations of other traditions of teachings and practices. And within a single tradition there are smaller and greater differences among individual teachers. So, if we go on with our analysis of the concept of tradition, we find that it is indeed not a single thing but a manifold, constructed and dependently arisen phenomenon. Practitioners have always tried to benefit from whatever they had at hand and as teachers they transmitted those that were the most helpful on their path. It is only natural that since in English we have teachings from several sources we make use of them.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 21st, 2012 at 5:34 AM
Title: Re: How can Zen be considered it's own thing...
Content:
Astus wrote:
So regarding teachers the only important thing is that they are enlightened but nobody can actually tell if someone is enlightened or not. That makes it a matter of pure luck/coincidence/karma to find the right Zen teacher. On this basis it can be questioned whether any historical teacher was enlightened. And such a view doesn't sound good to me. On the other hand, in the nikayas one finds clear guidance on investigating (AN 4.192) and identifying (MN 95) the proper teacher. In Mahayana sutras one also finds guidance on this matter (e.g. Complete Enlightenment Sutra, ch. 10). There are also shastras giving lists of qualities a teacher should possess (e.g. Ratnagotravibhaga 93.3-9 (T1611, 844b 6-12) and Mahayanasutralamkara 17.10). How come that Zen is so lost in this matter that is said to be so important for it?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, August 20th, 2012 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: How can Zen be considered it's own thing...
Content:
Astus wrote:
Matylda,

You gave a list about the qualities of a good student and that such a student should serve the teacher and behave well. But, as for deciding who is an enlightened teacher you did not give any observable characteristics.

How about Dogen's critique of Dahui - the greatest reformer of Chan in Song China - in Jisho Zanmai? From the Shasta Abbey translation, "Even though ‘Meditation Master’ Sōkō did the training for a rather long time, he did not succeed in getting hold of his Master’s Skin and Flesh, Bones and Marrow, much less did he even know that there is an Eye amidst the dust motes of defiling passions."


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, August 20th, 2012 at 4:21 PM
Title: Re: How can Zen be considered it's own thing...
Content:
Astus wrote:
Matylda,

How can you tell if somebody is enlightened? Because if that is the primary criterion of a teacher, a student should be able to tell that a person is awakened or not. If the student is unable to tell, how to choose? Lineage is said to be a proof, but even in Dogen's time he met teachers of different lineages but could not follow them and rejected them as fakes. So lineage is no proof.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, August 12th, 2012 at 9:15 PM
Title: Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality
Content:
Astus wrote:
Abhidharma and commentaries are in the Buddhist canon. However, Hsuan Hua does not quote them. It seems he just presents his interpretations as orthodox, and people accept it because he said so.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, August 12th, 2012 at 8:38 PM
Title: Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality
Content:
Astus wrote:
If we look at the question from a scriptural point of view, there is no statement regarding homosexual acts as acceptable within the third precept. On the other hand, there are quite a few works on the contrary. As a sexual misconduct then, it can lead to lower birth.

Now, this doesn't mean that such a view is definitive. But some may believe so. Just because they think so, it doesn't mean they are against the Buddhist teachings.

Let me give another example of Hsuan Hua's interpretation of precepts,

"People who smoke will fall into the hell of Flames after they die. The hell of Flames is especially prepared for smokers. Whoever likes to smoke has the chance to go down there." ( http://www.gbm-online.com/online/dharma/5_precepts3.html )

In his view, smoking is covered under the fifth precept against intoxicants. Can we find statements against smoking tobacco? No, as tobacco did not exist in Asia. So what is his interpretation based on?

Regarding homosexuality he refers to Chinese philosophical interpretations, like the yin-yang system. That is not Buddhist. He talks about the end of humanity, which is an argument commonly used against celibacy and not homosexuality.

What can be learnt from all this is not that Hsuan Hua was a false teacher and such, but the old teaching about not relying on the person but on the Dharma.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, August 11th, 2012 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: Realized teachers - their mundane errors and misconducts
Content:
Astus wrote:
Regarding bodhisattvas, on the 2nd bhumi they attain purity in the ten virtuous conducts.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 10th, 2012 at 8:16 PM
Title: Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality
Content:
Astus wrote:
Interpretations of marriage, sexual life and many other social customs are not relevant to the path of liberation. They are just ideas of a culture in an era.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 10th, 2012 at 4:27 PM
Title: Re: Hsuan Hua on Homosexuality
Content:
Astus wrote:
As far as I know, Ven. Hsuan Hua did not speak English and his primary audience was ethnic Chinese people. Since Buddhism in Asian countries is as conservative and traditional as Christianity in Western cultures, these views are not that strange then. Of course, this is not an excuse, but simply a possible explanation.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 9th, 2012 at 10:09 PM
Title: Re: Does Zen/Chan Offer an Opinion Regarding Shentong/Rangtong?
Content:
My Socks Smell said:
I was not aware that Japanese Zen contains a strong element of Yogachara idealism.  That worries me.  Therefore, may I ask you (or anyone who would care to answer), could you give a brief analysis of exactly what differentiates Yogachara idealism found in Zen from the concept of the "One Without A Second" found in Advaita Vedanta?  Thanks.

Astus wrote:
Yogachara is not Advaita, never was. Look into the works of Asanga and Vasubandhu, or some basic summary of Yogachara, like this one: http://www.acmuller.net/yogacara/articles/intro-uni.htm. However, Zen is not Yogachara, and in East Asia it is a secondary teaching behind those of Tientai/Tendai and Huayan/Kegon. But again, Zen is neither of them.

As for East Asian Yogachara - if you're interested - see this nice intro by Tagawa Shun'ei: Living Yogacara: An Introduction to Consciousness-Only Buddhism


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 9th, 2012 at 6:08 AM
Title: Re: Does Zen/Chan Offer an Opinion Regarding Shentong/Rangtong?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Zen is not about philosophical opinions but going beyond ideas and concepts. Whether one emphasises buddha-mind or emptiness, they are just expedient means. And there are examples for both cases.

This story sums it up nicely:

A monk asked, "Master, Why do you say that Mind is Buddha?"
Mazu said, "To stop babies from crying."
The monk said, "What do you say when they stop crying?"
Mazu said, "Neither Mind, nor Buddha."
The monk asked, "Without using either of these statements, how would you instruct someone?"
Mazu said, "I would say to him that it's not a thing."
The monk asked, "If suddenly you met someone who was in the midst of it, then what?"
Mazu said, "I would teach them to realize the great Way."


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 8th, 2012 at 6:00 PM
Title: Re: Analysis of 'presence'
Content:
Andrew108 said:
If we want to think about this in a more down to earth way then it's like knowing or seeing what anger is as an actuality. So we can have two ways to know anger. We can know it dualistically as something unpleasant and threatening to us (intellectually by looking with effort) or we can understand it from it's own side as being a display without basis (seeing without effort). This knowing so-called 'anger' from it's own side is similar to talking about knowing 'presence'. Recognizing 'presence' is also effortless seeing that knows itself.

Astus wrote:
So if we view anger just as an emotion without pushing it away, just being present with it, then it is the presence? And we can do the same with any other emotion or thought, right? That is, just being present with it without adding or taking away anything, without reacting to its presence. Isn't that just passivity?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 8th, 2012 at 4:48 PM
Title: Re: Analysis of 'presence'
Content:
Andrew108 said:
Conventionally it seems that there is a teacher but really there is just the natural state and that's what we are exposed to.

Astus wrote:
Exposed to how? How do you make the shift from non-presence to presence?

Andrew108 said:
So....no words I'm afraid can get to it. Also whilst we experience everything with our body and mind both of these are not separate from 'presence' whilst at the same time 'presence' is not caused by body and mind. When we look at karmic experiences in this way then they are always super fresh and in actuality 'unborn' in that they are not separate from 'presence'.

Astus wrote:
Body and mind are not separate from presence, but presence is not cause by either body nor mind. So, are body and mind same as or different from presence? Or both? Perhaps neither? Do you see that any if these will result in contradiction, just as in Nagarjuna's analysis of the relationship between the aggregates and the self?

And no words can get to it. What do you mean words can't get to it? There is no way to give instructions on presence, or how to attain presence? Then all those teachings are really a waste of paper and bytes.

Andrew108 said:
Right. It's not an object or even something to be reified like a type of emptiness. It's just what it is. There isn't really any analysis that needs to be done. The natural state brings with it all the knowledge we need. Actually right now we have all the knowledge we need.

Astus wrote:
It is not an object of perception, OK. Is it the subject then? If neither subject nor object, what else is there? And how can anyone ever know about it? If there is no analysis, what is the source of knowledge? If it is some special instruction, see my questions above.

Just to be clear, the reason I'm asking these questions is simply to get your perspective on what you happened to start a discussion on.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 8th, 2012 at 6:33 AM
Title: Re: Analysis of 'presence'
Content:
Andrew108 said:
It's more like the fact of perception rather than an object of perception. It's not an object to be perceived.

Astus wrote:
How come then that someone called 'teacher' can point it out for another?

Would you say that it's the presence of perception? The fact of being conscious? It is basic to all living beings. If there is nothing to be perceived about it, what do you call an analysis here?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 8th, 2012 at 2:29 AM
Title: Re: Analysis of 'presence'
Content:
Astus wrote:
So, how can one perceive personally this 'presence'?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 8th, 2012 at 2:28 AM
Title: Re: Issues with going on retreat.
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Pure Land is precisely the sublime method enabling the practitioner to turn his back on worldly dusts to merge with Enlightenment and return to the source (the Mind). Laymen bound up in mundane affairs cannot easily find the time to attend retreats, practice meditation and recite the sutras. This method is, therefore, very suitable for persons such as yourself. Each one can pay respect to the Buddhas and recite sutras or Buddha Amitabha’s name according to individual circumstances and capacities, dedicating the merits thus accrued to rebirth in the Pure Land."

(Yin Kuang: Pure-Land Zen, Zen Pure-Land, p. 24)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 7th, 2012 at 11:04 PM
Title: Re: Analysis of 'presence'
Content:
Astus wrote:
Is this 'presence' vegetarian or omnivore? Does this 'presence' sleep at night? Is it heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, transsexual, or asexual? And if these are irrelevant questions, what is 'presence' good for?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, August 6th, 2012 at 8:16 PM
Title: Re: The board and its direction (if any)
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm not really sure what evil and New Age invasion this is about. If I look around in the Buddhist forums, I don't see it happening. Am I missing something? Sure, I don't read everything, not even the half of it, but checking recent topics, titles here and there, it seems all according to the dedicated Buddhist section. There are some strange ones in Dharma Free for All and the Lounge, but that's what they are for anyway. Everyone has the great opportunity to discuss the wonderful Mahayana teachings in its myriad aspects. So, it's better to ask yourself what were the last three topics you posted in and those that you started. Were they about the Buddhadharma? Were they a reflection of bodhicitta?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, August 6th, 2012 at 5:17 PM
Title: Re: Whats the difference
Content:
Astus wrote:
Can you describe in brief what you understand as "mindfulness of mind" in vipassana?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 3rd, 2012 at 8:05 PM
Title: Re: Soto is the same as Caodong?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Matylda,

Can you specify where and what difference your friend experienced regarding koans?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 3rd, 2012 at 3:50 PM
Title: Re: Soto is the same as Caodong?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The only difference in practical terms between Caodong and Linji in China was the brief period when Dahui came up with the huatou practice and it was in the process of spreading. But in a short time everyone embraced it. Dogen was in China when kanhua practice was still relatively new. So what he brought back to Japan was mainly general Song dynasty Buddhism where Chan philosophy was prevalent.

A couple of factors should be noted. First, individual monasteries were independent and it was up to the abbot and the elder monks what kind of teachings were available and practised in the daily routine. Being a Caodong monastery meant that the abbot associated himself with that lineage, but the teachings provided in the entire monastery was not defined by that. As a modern example, both Fo Guang Shan and Chung Tai Shan are Linji lineage, just as Kwan Um Zen and Hanmaum Seon are Linji, but the only group among them that shows some "Zen style" is really the Kwan Um Zen that was influenced by Japanese Buddhism and established in the West. My point is, these "schools" are just names that tell little about what actually goes on.

The Japanese Soto school went through many changes until it reached its current centralised form. Comparing Soto with Caodong raises the problems of identifying what these names stand for. Steven Heine has a study about Dogen's sources and life that might give you the answers you are after: "Did Dōgen Go to China? - What He Wrote and When He Wrote It". For Caodong in China, the only study I know of is Morten Schlütter's "How Zen Became Zen".


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 2nd, 2012 at 5:47 AM
Title: Re: Non-Abiding Awareness
Content:
Astus wrote:
Andrew,

What else is there to realise besides emptiness? That is the quintessence of wisdom.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 1st, 2012 at 8:06 PM
Title: Re: Non-Abiding Awareness
Content:
Astus wrote:
Baizhang's three gates are fine indeed. What difference do you find between those who talk of awareness and the Buddhist teachers you mentioned?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 1st, 2012 at 5:44 PM
Title: Re: Ask a Transgender Buddhist
Content:
Astus wrote:
I see your point. My question is not relevant then.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 1st, 2012 at 3:35 PM
Title: Re: Zen schools that involve qigong?
Content:
Astus wrote:
johnny,

All I'm talking about here is the relationship between Chinese forms of body training and Zen Buddhism. I define Zen as a set of doctrines and methods. Taoism and history, I've said nothing about those. Now, when comparing or matching Zen with something else, what I consider are the doctrines and methods taught within the Zen canon. As you have found nothing related to qigong in it, so I say the same that they are not related. We can also consider that actually there are people who practise both Zen and qigong. There is no contradiction.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 1st, 2012 at 3:33 AM
Title: Re: Zen schools that involve qigong?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The majority of Zen teachings is written in Chinese language. Does that mean Zen involves Chinese? No, Zen is not connected to the language that is used as its medium, and the language itself does not become Zen just because it is used to convey Zen teachings.

As for the concept of "Zen school", it is not an easy one to define. Traditionally speaking, there are only two schools of Zen since the Song dynasty, and that is the Linji and the Caodong. However, they exist in theory only.

So, if we changed the question, asking if there are Buddhist monastic/lay communities in East Asia where they practise qigong/gongfu/etc., the answer can be easily yes. And regarding their specific views on Buddhist doctrine and praxis one can find a large variety, while at the same time they all do qigong or other forms of body training. In fact, we can just say that there are often some form of body training involved, since even in qigong there are different styles.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, July 31st, 2012 at 9:42 PM
Title: Re: Ask a Transgender Buddhist
Content:
Sara H said:
Are you talking about Anatta or the concept of no "sepperate-self".
Or the second Noble Truth being that clinging/craving/insisting/the "I must have" being the cause of suffering. ? Or something else?

Astus wrote:
Yes, I am referring to selflessness and the second noble truth, as they are related very closely. Identifying with something is grasping a self, and that causes suffering. More to the point of gender, here is what Soma bhikkhuni said in reply to Mara,

"What difference does being a woman make when the mind's well-centered, when knowledge is progressing, seeing clearly, rightly, into the Dhamma. Anyone who thinks 'I'm a woman' or 'a man' or 'Am I anything at all?' — that's who Mara's fit to address."
( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn05/sn05.002.than.html

There is also a longer sutta on the subject: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an07/an07.048.than.html. Furthermore, in chapter seven of the Vimalakirti Sutra (tr. Charles Luk) it is said,

"all women are the same and though they appear in female form, they are fundamentally not women. Hence the Buddha said: ‘All things are neither male nor female’. ... The form of a woman neither exists nor is non-existent."

So, it is a part of Buddhism that one should remove identification with one's gender, as part of getting rid of sensual desire.

Sara H said:
I view it as an "aspect" of me, in the same way that my hair color or eye color is.

Astus wrote:
Since you identified yourself in this thread as a transgender Buddhist, my question occurred because it seems to me that being a transgender is a very important thing for you. Or, if you don't mind me saying, being a woman is important for you.

Therefore I ask how you manage these two views to be helpful for you in your life.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, July 31st, 2012 at 4:41 PM
Title: Re: Zen schools that involve qigong?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think you can find quite easily a Chinese monk who also knows qigong. But that doesn't mean Buddhism or specifically Zen/Chan is connected to it in doctrine or praxis. You can find Western Zen teachers who are also psychotherapists or engineers, but neither of those professions are Buddhist methods.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 30th, 2012 at 3:13 PM
Title: Re: Non-Abiding Awareness
Content:
Astus wrote:
Matt,

Identifying "present awareness" as the final meaning, as the true self is still grasping, abiding and the view of self. As Wuzhu of the Baotang school often said, "At the time of true no-thought, no-thought itself is not." Also, clinging to a pure consciousness as reality creates the duality of pure and non-pure, thought and no thought. Non-abiding is not abiding in some blank mind but not grasping appearances. That's what emptiness means, and that's why emptiness and dependent origination are not different. Referring to the Heart Sutra, the problem is not that there are aggregates, but identifying with any of them as real is the delusion creating suffering.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 30th, 2012 at 4:04 AM
Title: Re: How can Zen be considered it's own thing...
Content:
Matt J said:
How did you come to the conclusion that Zen teaches that the mind is non-abiding awareness?

Astus wrote:
"What is nonthought? If in seeing all the dharmas, the mind is not defiled or attached, this is nonthought. [The mind’s] functioning pervades all locations, yet it is not attached to all the locations."
(Platform Sutra, ch. 2)

"Within continuing moments of thought one should not think of the previous [mental] realm. If one thinks of the previous thought, the present thought, and the later thought, one’s thoughts will be continuous without cease. This is called ‘fettered.’ If one’s thoughts do not abide in the dharmas, this is to be ‘unfettered.’ Thus it is that nonabiding is taken as the fundamental."
(Platform Sutra, ch. 4)

"Q: Where does the mind dwell in its real abode?
A: Dwelling nowhere is its real abode.
Q: What is dwelling nowhere?
A: It is the mind not dwelling anywhere or on anything.
Q: What does "not dwelling anywhere or on anything" mean?
A: Not to dwell anywhere or on anything means not to dwell on good or evil, existence or non-existence, within or without or on the middle, nor on concentration nor dispersion, and neither to dwell on the void nor on the non-void. This is the meaning of "not dwelling anywhere or on anything". Just this alone is real abiding. This stage of achievement is also the non-abiding Mind, and the non-abiding Mind is the Buddha Mind.
Q: What is the non-abiding Mind like?
A: The non-abiding Mind is not green, yellow, red or white. It is not long or short, nor does it come or go. It is not pure or impure, nor does it have birth or death. It is only deep and permanent stillness. This is the non-abiding Mind, which is also called the Original Body. The Original Body is the Buddha's Body, which is also called the Dharmakaya."
(Ta-Chu Hui-Hai: http://www.ymba.org/TaChu/tachu2.htm )

"Now we are getting towards the end of the third period of five hundred years since the time of the Buddha, and most students of zen cling to all sorts of sounds and forms. Why do they not copy me by letting each thought gas as though it were nothing, or as though it were a piece of rotten wood, a stone, or the cold ashes of a dead fire? Or else, by just making whatever slight response is suited to each occasion? If you do not act thus, when you reach the end of your days here, you will be tortured by Yama. You must get away from the doctrines of existence and non-existence, for Mind is like the sun, forever in the void, shining spontaneously, shining without intending to shine. This is not something which you can accomplish without effort, but when you reach the point of clinging to nothing whatever, you will be acting as the Buddhas act. This will indeed be acting in accordance with the saying: 'Develop a mind which rests on no thing whatever.' For this is your pure Dharmakaya, which is called supreme perfect Enlightenment. If you cannot understand this, though you gain profound knowledge from your studies, though you make the most painful efforts and practise the most stringent austerities, you will still fail to now your own mind. All your effort will have been misdirected and you will certainly join the family of Mara. What advantage can you gain from this sort of practice?"
(The Chün Chou Record in "The Zen Teachings of Huang Po", p. 61-62)

"Therefore, being with no place to dwell is the way of all Buddha activity.  The Mind that does not abide anywhere is the Perfect Awakening,  without understanding the Unconditioned Truth, even with much learning and diligent practice, one still does not recognize one's own Mind."
(The Chung-Ling Record in " http://www.ymba.org/transmission/content.html ")

"The mind of voidness and calm is a spiritual Knowing that never darkens. This calm Knowing of voidness and calm is precisely the mind of voidness and calm that Bodhidharma formerly transmitted. ... Knowing is no mindfulness and no form. Who is characterized as self, and who is characterized as other? When you are aware that all characteristics are void, it is true mind, no mindfulness. If a thought arises, be aware of it; once you are aware of it, it will disappear. The excellent gate of practice lies here alone. Therefore, even though you fully cultivate all the practices, just take no mindfulness as the axiom. If you just get the mind of no mindfulness, then love and hatred will spontaneously become pale and faint, compassion and wisdom [prajna] will spontaneously increase in brightness, sinful karma will spontaneously be eliminated, and you will spontaneously be zealous in meritorious practices."
(Chan Letter in "Zongmi on Chan", p. 89)

"This awareness is true awareness, the same as empty tranquil awareness. It is also called "awareness of no-thought." If one has thought and awareness, one is in the state of common people; if one has no-though and non-knowing, one is in the state of the two vehicles; if one has no-thought, but with awareness, one is in the state of the Buddhas. No-thought is empty and tranquil [awareness], and is also called "non-abiding awareness." Because if one abides in something, it is comparable to a person entering into a dark room and not being to see anything. But, if one does not abide in anything, it is like sunlight and moonlight illuminating and making visible all varieties of things."
(Yongming Yanshou: Profound Pivot of the Contemplation of Mind in "Integrating Chinese Buddhism", p. 177)

"People who cultivate nowadays belong to the Buddha's spiritual family. They rely upon the direct approach of the sudden school and, having developed firm faith, they straightaway understand that their own minds are perpetually calm and ever alert. Since they rely on this realization when they begin cultivation, even though they cultivate the manifold supplementary practices, they only regard thoughtlessness as their core and nonactivity as their foundation. Due to this thoughtlessness and nonaction, their practice is independent of sequence in either time or space and free of any element of discrimination between the absolute dharma and its phenomenal aspects [that is, immanent suchness]. Since their cultivation is complete, approaches to dharma as numerous as dust motes and the meritorious qualities developed on all the bhamis are also complete in the essence of their sublime mind, which is, accordingly, like the wish-fulfilling gem."
(Encouragement to Practice in "Collected Works of Chinul", p. 109)

"Think of not thinking. Not thinking-what kind of thinking is that? Nonthinking. This is the essential art of zazen."
(Dogen: http://www.stanford.edu/group/scbs/sztp3/translations/gongyo_seiten/translations/part_3/fukan_zazengi.html )

"Right at this moment, this single thought is itself unborn! Everything that manifests before you now are illusory and insubstantial - all of which are reflections projected from the true mind. Work in such a manner to crush away [all your deluded thoughts]. You should fixate [your mind] to observe where the thoughts arise from and where they cease. If you practice like this, no matter what kinds of deluded thoughts arise, one smash and they will all be crushed to pieces. All will dissolve and vanish away. You should never follow or perpetuate deluded thoughts. Master Yongjia has admonished, “One must sever the mind [that desires] continuation.” This is because the illusory mind of delusion is originally rootless. You should never take a deluded thought as real and try to hold on to it in your heart. As soon as it arises notice it right away. Once you notice it, it will vanish. Never try to suppress thoughts but allow thoughts to be as you watch a gourd floating on water."
(Hanshan Deqing: http://chancenter.org/cmc/2011/10/13/essentials-of-practice-and-enlightenment-for-beginners/ )


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, July 28th, 2012 at 6:59 PM
Title: Re: How can Zen be considered it's own thing...
Content:
Astus wrote:
[quote="/johnny\"]can you explain progression in meditation specifically?[/quote]

It depends on the person who practises. The general stages are explained in several texts, covering the levels of calming and insight. The Zen part is at the final stages of insight with the realisation of the middle way, the unity of emptiness and dependent origination. The point where one sees not just that all phenomena are mind but also that the mind is unreal as well. But you already http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=9351 on that.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, July 28th, 2012 at 7:32 AM
Title: Re: How can Zen be considered it's own thing...
Content:
Astus wrote:
Let's look at it from another perspective. What is it one should learn in Zen? Saying that it's a "thing" or "art" is not a definition. What is Zen about? It is about seeing the nature of mind. What is the nature of mind? It is non-abiding awareness. How do you experience it? You don't attach to ideas and emotions. How can you not attach to them? You see them for what they are, impermanent mental phenomena. And it can go on with an extensive description of the many teachings of Mahayana. A teacher can help you clarify all the teachings in a way that can make sense to you. You may also find a book by a teacher that answers whatever question you have at that time. The Buddhist canon and auxiliary works contain thousands of years of experience. A living teacher has a few decades of experience. However, unlike books, a teacher can know you and speak in a way that matches your way of understanding. Of course, if you can find the right teacher.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 27th, 2012 at 9:12 PM
Title: Re: How can Zen be considered it's own thing...
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huineng gives the answers in the Platform Sutra,

Need of teacher,

"If you are one who enlightens himself, you need not seek a teacher outside. If you insist that it is necessary to seek a Good Knowing Advisor in the hope of obtaining liberation, you are mistaken. Why? Within your own mind there is self-enlightenment which is a Knowing Advisor. But if you give rise to deviant confusion, false thoughts, and perversions, although a Good Knowing Advisor external to you instructs you, he cannot save you."
(ch. 2)

Learning from books,

"Those who grasp at emptiness slander the Sutras by maintaining that written words have no use. Since they maintain they have no need of written words, they should not speak either, because written words are merely the marks of spoken language. They also maintain that the direct way cannot be established by written words, and yet these two words, 'not established' are themselves written."
(ch. 10)


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 27th, 2012 at 5:14 PM
Title: Re: How can Zen be considered it's own thing...
Content:
Astus wrote:
Why do you need a teacher? Because people are lazy and careless, they don't make the effort to fully comprehend the teachings and be able to apply it in their practice and then their life. Having a teacher is similar to calling the plumber to fix the toilet. You could fix it yourself, if you cared to learn how. Or, an even closer example is learning a language or profession. Anyone can learn a foreign language simply from books and podcasts, but without regular classes people tend to postpone learning and eventually give up. Also, just as a Zen teacher, the language teacher can point out your mistakes immediately, while to do it yourself you have to do tests and such.

Can one learn Zen without a teacher? Of course you can. Can you learn from books? Sure. Are you up to the task of actually doing it?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 27th, 2012 at 4:58 PM
Title: Re: Practicing martial arts?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The one I quoted is a minor precept and it is about storing weapons, it is not about their use, but the fact that one possesses such tools. That makes it clear how even the potential of aggression should be removed. Regarding the acts of any form of aggression, it is covered by the major precepts. The acts of anger by the ninth, acts of harming and killing by the very first.

If one wants to do training for fitness, there are many forms of sports. It is true that what matters is intention, so theoretically practising martial arts is no problem. Problem is, however, that as we easily identify with our body and acts have deep impact on our mentality, martial training generates a martial attitude. By learning defensive techniques you also learn to expect attack, you learn feeling insecure and afraid. Of course, if you can put that all down and maintain a peaceful and compassionate mind, there can be no problem. But then, why practice self defence?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 27th, 2012 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: Sex and the Lama
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is not against law or lay precept to have sex with a student. Lying about the nature of the relationship, however, is deceitful and harmful. If the woman was not cheated by tales of spiritual benefits or promise of love, then there is simply the case of either casual sex or an emotionally balanced relationship.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 27th, 2012 at 5:10 AM
Title: Re: Practicing martial arts?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is a thread on https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=3945 you may visit.

From the http://www.ymba.org/bns/bnsframe.htm, the moral code of bodhisattvas in East Asian Buddhism, the 10th minor precept says,

10. On Storing Deadly Weapons

A disciple of the Buddha should not store weapons such as knives, clubs, bows, arrows, spears, axes or any other weapons, nor may he keep nets, traps or any such devices used in destroying life. (53)

As a disciple of the Buddha, he must not even avenge the death of his parents -- let alone kill sentient beings! (54) He should not store any weapons or devices that can be used to kill sentient beings. If he deliberately does so, he commits a secondary offense.

Regarding committing aggressive acts, see the 1st and 9th major precept.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 26th, 2012 at 4:45 PM
Title: Re: Zen masters from Shaolin?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Xueting Fuyu (1203-1275) established in Shaolin both its martial side and the Caodong lineage, and even today in China the Caodong lineage comes through him.

Zhanran Yuancheng (1561-1626), revived the Caodong lineage in the Ming dynasty, and his master, Cizhou Fangnian (?-1594), was from Shaolin.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: What actually makes someone a Buddhist?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Buddhist is someone who believes that ultimate liberation is taught by the Buddha as his Dharma and upheld by the Sangha. This is actually taking refuge in the three jewels. As for how deeply one understands the middle way, how well that person can practise ethical discipline and meditation, these are secondary matters, that can qualify a Buddhist.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 at 5:38 PM
Title: Re: Peixiu pronunciation
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://talkbank.org/pinyin/Trad_chart_IPA.php: pʰei-ɕjoʊ
Further info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin#Rules_given_in_terms_of_English_pronunciation

Note, however, that this is modern Mandarin. Pronunciation changed a lot and there are several dialects in China. Using Japanese (Hai-kyuu) or Korean (Pay-hyu) can be actually closer to the original.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.
Content:
conebeckham said:
I'd venture a guess that the vast majority of lay Buddhists don't google anything.

Astus wrote:
That sounds very true.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, July 24th, 2012 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: The Buddhism trend in decline.
Content:
Astus wrote:
I doubt Google trends is representative of real life situation.

Just look at the word "mahamudra": https://www.google.com/trends/?q=mahamudra " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is up and down.

Perhaps checking existing community centres, monasteries, publications would be a better indication.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, July 21st, 2012 at 9:42 PM
Title: Re: The Tao of Zen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ikkyu,

Seung Sahn was a religious authority within his own school and made a significant impact in the Western Buddhist community. That doesn't make him a historian or a scholar of East Asian studies. Just because someone is a bishop of a diocese it doesn't mean he is necessarily proficient in the historic development of Christianity, or a general of military history, or a surgeon of medical history. In fact, because they all have their own specific understanding there is a good chance their interpretation will be biased and not based on verifiable research.

And that is an important point here, research. To say that Zen was influenced by Taoism, it is the very first task to define what constitutes Zen and what Taoism, and then show how the influenced has happened and in what area. Zen defines itself as a Buddhist school, uses Buddhist sources and claims Indian Buddhist origins. Whatever teachings are there in Zen, they can be traced back to Buddhist sutras and treatises. So, what is Taoist in it?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 20th, 2012 at 6:03 PM
Title: Re: Accumulating Merit by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso Rinpoche.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Interesting thing, this recitation-meditation.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 19th, 2012 at 8:16 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
seeker242 said:
Which zen scriptures say a student is required to have blind faith in a teacher and do whatever they say? Even if what they say and do is completely contrary to the precepts? That doesn't exist! You put aside cleverness, but you don't put aside reasonableness. For example, if a teacher shows up drunk to give a dharma talk, it's not "cleverness" to say "Hmm, there is something wrong with this guy." It's just being reasonable.

Astus wrote:
Maezumi Roshi, who is not discussed in the original paper, was an alcoholic, just to give you an example. At the same time, we have http://www.kwanumzen.org/1976/100-crazy/ as the "drunken master", or the entire life story of Ikkyu.

It is not the point that scriptures don't say this, because people don't even read the sutras. The picture you have as your avatar is an example of the idea that in Zen the scriptures are not important, therefore the only form of authority that remains is the teacher. And that leaves the position of master in the special position of spiritual judge and even king over unenlightened students. Since Zen is not something unenlightened people can understand, whatever happens is beyond mortal comprehension.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 19th, 2012 at 6:58 PM
Title: Re: The Tao of Zen?
Content:
Ikkyu said:
If a very important Zen abbot is saying that Taoism has had this much influence, isn't there at least a little room to suggest this may be in some sense true?

Astus wrote:
If said Zen abbot were also a scholar in the relevant field then yes. Otherwise, it has no relevance that he was a famous Zen teacher.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 19th, 2012 at 6:53 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
dharmagoat said:
Does the idea that a lineage master is necessarily a "super being" come from the Tibetan tradition?

Astus wrote:
Zen precedes the arrival of Buddhism to Tibet.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 19th, 2012 at 6:53 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
Astus wrote:
seeker242,
I understand that, but even that transmission does not make that person a "super being". Where does the idea of "super being" come from, just from dharma transmission?
Don't you know all the stories of transmission, that the Buddha gave the True Dharma Eye to Kashyapa? Aren't you familiar with Zen stories of enlightened masters that are then used in meditation? One who receives transmission is counted as an heir to the Buddha and all the great patriarchs. And they emphasises this too, by for instance showing the whole lineage, talking about the importance of lineage, praising their own master and their master's master.

Unknown said:
The answer is simple really, because the students were not being intelligent or reasonable, to begin with. A reasonable and intelligent student would have left those teachers behind in a heartbeat, without even thinking twice about it.

Astus wrote:
Not exactly. People who go to study under a teacher do that exactly because they don't know themselves what to do and expect the teacher to tell them. This is also pushed by the idea that you need and teacher and that you should obey your master. Being a student then is a little like being a child, where it doesn't really matter if you are intelligent or not. In fact, in Zen they like to say that one should put aside all cleverness, that Zen itself is beyond one's understanding.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 19th, 2012 at 5:46 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sara H,

Unlike a PhD, that requires a whole institution with a faculty to earn it and has clear rules about the expectations, Dharma-transmission is given on a personal basis based on a single individual's assessment. So they are not very similar.

Insight into the nature of mind has been interpreted as different levels of realisations by different teachers. For Mazu Daoyi, it is buddhahood right there. For Jinul it is the first stage of faith. And there are others in between, like 1st bhumi bodhisattva, or 8th bhumi bodhisattva. Nevertheless, it is meant to be the correct and direct realisation of things as they are, of suchness, emptiness, dependent origination, buddha-nature.

If it is without clear consequences even to such basic things as ethical conduct, that attainment is meaningless. One of the definition of a sravaka stream-entrant is that it keeps the five precepts. While bodhisattva morals are little different, the awakening of bodhicitta includes unbound compassion towards all beings. Such compassion means that one has no intention to harm any being but to help them become free from all suffering. If you read the paper this topic has started with, you can see that such level of power abuse is far from compassionate conduct.

And as for what interpretation we are talking about regarding Dharma-transmission, it is the general one among Zen followers who believe that Zen teachers are enlightened - just as you say too, that they have kensho - and therefore they are the living source of the Dharma and the judge of the student's realisation. That you don't connect this to ethical behaviour is another thing, since ethics come before meditation and wisdom.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 19th, 2012 at 4:41 PM
Title: Re: The goal/stages/results of Zen meditation?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There are stages described from early on. Things about Zen are confusing because it is not a unified method and teachers say so many different things, and so on and on.

It is wonderful you got to a very calm state. That is samatha as you know. Unfortunately, even samatha requires awareness. That you fall asleep, it's normal. However, to look for proper instructions in Zen books about this is a lost cause, you won't really find it. Why? Because Zen comes later, it deals with high class vipasyana. So, your choice of switching to Theravada was appropriate, if you managed to get the right training. If you want to use what the Zen trainees used, you should study the meditation manuals of Zhiyi. You can find great translations of two important works of him on http://kalavinka.org/ and you can also order them as books.

Other sources you can use besides Theravada ones that you are probably already familiar with (e.g. Ajahn Brahm's books), you can use Tibetan manuals that are mainly based on Indian works, like Gen Lamrimpa: Calming the Mind, Lati Rinpoche: Meditative States in Tibetan Buddhism and Khenchen Thrangu: The Practice of Tranquility and Insight.

If you are looking for Zen's stages of realisations, there are some, but it's nothing unified. So, like there are three steps descibed by Baizhang Huaihai (alleged teacher of Linji Yixuan) as (1) don't grasp appearances, (2) don't attach to not grasping, (3) don't make a concept of not attaching. And there are others like this. However, these are not really meditation stages but wisdom. It is the realisation of the middle way, the unity of samadhi and prajna, emptiness and dependent origination, essence and function, etc. Since the nature of mind is already empty and aware, there is nothing to develop or attain, only to realise this fact for yourself. That's how Zen has no real stages. But, it is still possible to devise some levels, like using the 10 bodhisattva stages, or the whole 52 stages system, or as Ven. Shengyan summarised it as (1) calm mind, (2) unified mind, (3) and no mind.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 19th, 2012 at 5:21 AM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
kirtu said:
There is an issue with Dharma transmission definitely.  But there is also an issue with Zen awakening and enlightenment.  I have said before that people who perpetrate this behavior have either no or very shallow awakening.

Astus wrote:
Problem is, while in Japan in Sotoshu and Rinzaishu receiving Dharma-transmission does not allow people in and of itself to train monks, or necessarily mean that the person is enlightened. In the West, however, this was all messed up. So we see the results.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 at 11:00 PM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
Simon E. said:
I have never heard anyone reply that way . And I have heard the question put to many lamas including the Dalai Lama.  They include... Situ Rinpoche, Thrangu Rinpoche, Chime Rinpoche, Ato Rinpoche, Sogyal Rinpoche and my first teacher Trungpa Rinpoche. All of them ( and it is a question lamas get asked a lot ) said they had no memory of previous lives.
I have also heard the same question put to Ajahn Chah and Ajahn Sumedho...who just wouldnt go there.
So we have a remarkable situation where advanced meditators have no memory of past lives...but random children apparently do...

Astus wrote:
That is indeed an interesting point. Do you have their testimonies that they have no memories at all?

BTW, a couple of people I know say they have memories of past lives, including my mother.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 at 8:42 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
seeker242 said:
I have never heard of ANY zen tradition teaching that zen masters are enlightened super beings. So why do some people view them as super beings when it's not an actual zen teaching? What is the source of that belief? It seems to me that the source is not any zen teaching but rather the ignorant mind of practitioners. So the ignorant mind of practitioners is really the problem.

Astus wrote:
What is the definition of dharma-transmission? "acknowledgement of awakening itself [which] remained separate from monastic leadership" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma_transmission#Contemporary_use_in_the_Zen-traditions )

And that's what the legend tells us. Buddha approved Kasyapa, Kasyapa approved Ananda, etc. And all the students wait for the approval of their teacher that they actually got it right. That is the power of the teacher, that is spiritual authority. And just like any power, it can and it will be abused. Add to this the idea that people can learn Zen ONLY from teachers within a lineage. This is again enforcing the position of Zen teachers.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 at 6:03 PM
Title: Re: Tibet : Monks below 18 forced to disrobe
Content:
Astus wrote:
OK, so those kids who were sent to monasteries are now sent back to home. Then they need approval from a government office to become monastics. The first one looks like protecting children - like, if somebody in a Western country forced their children into a Christian monastery, it would not be outrageous at all if the government sent them back home or to some child care home. As for the need of official permission to become a monastic, it's been like that in China for very long now (I mean, hundreds of years).

News of arrest of monks who have written against the government, what is strange about this? It is still a dictatorship, there is no free speech. The monks could have been well aware of the consequences.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 at 3:44 PM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
Samsaric_Spiral said:
I don't think we're in disagreement then. Just Soto Zen Buddhists don't really discuss what happens after death, even though it is generally agreed the idea of a pure vacuum is nonsensical. It's not like "we" fall into a nothingness, but rather the "we" is already empty of self-existence and there is nothing but constant change (i.e., lack of fixed beingness).

Also, I will get off-topic a bit by mentioning something that's related my friend recently brought: there was a German philosopher Bahnsen who's views on death sort of agree with both Theravadan notion of reincarnation and Mahayana emptiness. it also acknowledges constant change.

Astus wrote:
The difference between Theravada and Mahayana in interpreting rebirth is that Theravadin Abhidhamma does not accept the intermediate state (bardo) between births while all Mahayana school does. There is no real self in any Buddhist system, and all teach karmic causality, dependent origination and even momentariness. Also, since Mahayana is the path of the bodhisattva, it is impossible not to have rebirth, without which the bodhisattva path itself couldn't exist. Another few specialities of Mahayana is the immanence of bodhisattvas and buddhas, and the accessibility of buddha-lands. Soto Zen temples include altars for worship, shrines for ancestors, bodhisattvas and buddhas, and other practices of worship.

The point is, seeing the unity of emptiness and dependent origination, the oneness of essence and function, is the middle way in view, meditation and conduct. And just as on an everyday level - although it's all momentary and insubstantial - we go here and there, live like people with lifespan, on a larger scale beings die again and again, worlds collapse and reappear, etc. There is not a "fixed being", but we can tell without thinking whose toe was stepped on.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 at 5:40 AM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
Samsaric_Spiral said:
I understand what you're getting at now. In Soto Zen tradition rebirth is understood to occur moment-by-moment. To use an example, 10 years ago 'I' was essentially a different being; even the molecular components that make me up now have changed. Since in emptiness there is no defining quality that can be used to rigidly define another, there is only constant change. Rebirth is essentially occurring right now, like beads attached to a string. In acknowledging constant change and no fixed beingness, the rigid distinction between living and death can vanish, for death and birth are happening moment-by-moment.

Astus wrote:
Momentariness (a very old Buddhist idea) is one important thing. Rebirth is another important teaching. One is continuous change on the micro level, the other on the macro level. They complement each other perfectly. The body changes on the cellular level rapidly, but we can still grow old. The mind changes every moment, but the continuity is not interrupted even by death.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 at 3:52 AM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
Samsaric_Spiral said:
There are still precepts that one must practice with, like a raft, but eventually they become second-nature and the raft may be put behind.
Soto Zen also acknowledges actions have consequences. The accumulation and effects of these are what's referred to Karma in Zen.

Astus wrote:
There are precepts and there is karma, just like in any other Buddhist tradition. How come that rebirth is not understood to be a basic idea?

Samsaric_Spiral said:
Siddhartha's Cūļa-māluńkya Sutra alludes to how we will never have an absolute answer to whether the Tathagata exists after death. What's important aren't the intellectual answers to such questions, but how we live our lives right now.

Astus wrote:
The existence of a buddha after death is quite a different issue than the existence of ordinary beings after death, about whom we find lot of teachings regarding the different places of birth and consequences of actions.
Life is not lived "right now". Moving, action requires all three times. And just as this day is the result of all the previous days and the cause of all the following days, this life is the result of previous lives and the cause of future lives. Not a difficult concept at all. And why is it important? Because life is short and people die every day. We can die at any moment. How will we reach buddhahood and liberate all beings then?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 at 3:40 AM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
ghost01 said:
So not being content sitting in silence makes you a Bodhisattva?

Astus wrote:
What I'm saying is not reducing everything to a single idea. As for bodhisattvas, they use infinite skilful means in order to remove suffering from the whole world.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 at 3:34 AM
Title: Re: The allure of Zen...
Content:
Astus wrote:
First important thing to understand about Zen is that there are Zen stories and there is actual life. Stories are fiction, they are there to entertain and to educate. Life, well, that's a lot more complex thing.

In the book "Zen Wisdom" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheng-yen is asked, "How does an ordinary practitioner recognize a false master?" To what he answers,

"The most important thing in recognizing masters is to be able to judge whether they have a correct view of Buddhadharma. If their views of the Dharma are correct, then even if their behavior reveals some weaknesses, they should not be considered false masters. On the other hand, if teachers do not have a correct view of the Dharma, they cannot be considered authentic or virtuous masters.

Of course, this presupposes that the person making the judgment has some understanding of correct Dharma. Without an understanding of the Dharma, there is no way a practitioner can tell if a teacher is genuine or false.

Beyond this, there are some basic criteria that can be used in assessing masters. First, consider their causes and conditions. In other words, their actions should be based on a foundation of emptiness; there should be no attachment in what they do. Second, consider their causes and consequences, or karma. The sense of emptiness that guides the actions of virtuous masters (causes and conditions) should accord with their karma (causes and consequences). That is to say, their actions need to be guided by a sense of responsibility. They should, at all times, be clearly aware of the consequences of their actions. Thus, there is an intimate relationship between responsibility and non-attachment.

These, then, are the marks of virtuous masters: they have a correct view of the Dharma, their actions reveal no attachment and they have a clear sense of responsibility."

So, the first thing you should do, is to study Mahayana. You should be clear about the basics, like bodhicitta, the six paramitas, compassion, dependent origination and emptiness. Although it is not used in East Asia, Shantideva's Bodhicaryavatara (The Way of the Bodhisattva) is an inspiring introduction to the fundamental teachings. Also, as an introduction to Zen, you should study the so called Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 at 2:25 AM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
ghost01 said:
Questions like these don't have any real answer, and really only cause suffering by contemplating them.. so the purpose of acting without a goal may be to escape a pointless and mindless circle of thinking that only harms you.

Astus wrote:
Thinking is tiring, so better stop it? Consider Dogen's works for a little here then. He produced a few manuals for sitting meditation, yes. He also gave hundreds of teachings on a large variety of Buddhist doctrines in the Shobogenzo, the Shobogenzo Zuimonki and the Eihei Koroku. He established rules for the entire management of monastic life in the Eihei Shingi from cooking to administrative tasks. And there are some other works, like the Mana Shobogenzo, his collection of 300 koans. So if we look at Dogen as the exemplary Soto Zen practitioner, there is a lot more than just sitting with a beginner's mind. Dogen was familiar with the important Buddhist teachings and so could rely on a tradition that was more than 1500 years old by then with a great number of texts from India, Central Asia, China, Korea and Japan that he had access to. Again, the Soto Zen school in Japan is about 800 years old, a living tradition with a massive textual corpus of its own. True, for lay people, this is all not important. They can feel content with sitting a little in silence. However, that also means one is not ready to transform one's entire life and continue the bodhisattva's work in every aspect of daily living. That's what being a lay person actually means.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 at 1:17 AM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
Samsaric_Spiral said:
I am a Soto Zen practitioner, and I believe this stuff is not important to the practice. Rather, living in the moment and dropping the subject/object dichotomy in all activities takes priority. Whether rebirth is true or not has little to no impact on my life at the moment; if it were either true or false, a practitioner would still go about his daily tasks without intent, goal, or an "I"-barrier. Soto Zen is more concerned with daily living, hence why it is a great school for non-monastic people. I believe in almost all Zen schools, all ideology is treated as non-absolute and provisional, so attaching oneself to ideology could serve as a barrier to sustaining Beginner's Mind/Mindfulness.

Astus wrote:
I agree, if one is interested only in sustaining a selfless awareness, no issues of past and future are relevant, not even the present. But then, why is selfless awareness important? Why sustain a beginner's mind? Sports, dating, computer games, etc. are all fun, aren't they? Doing daily tasks without intent sounds interesting. But what are those daily tasks? A butcher's daily tasks are Zen practice if done with mindfulness? Stealing the tax payer's money is just fine if done as a beginner? How about cheating on one's spouse or beating the kids? And these are just simple ethical issues that one can actually face. If Soto Zen is concerned about daily living, how is it addressed with the single idea of acting without a goal? And if one has truly no purpose in life, why get out of bed at all? These are real questions of daily life, where causes and conditions matter. Actions have consequences, and behind all action there is intention. Which intention is right, which is wrong? And so we arrive at the teaching of karma and dependent origination, and from that to rebirth, the matter of life and death.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, July 17th, 2012 at 4:02 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
Sara H said:
It means that people are human, and that people who are practicing Zen are human and make mistakes. It doesn't mean that they are immoral. Making a mistake and being immoral are vastly different things.

Astus wrote:
The point of the paper is that Zen teachers are not seen as simply humans, but as enlightened super-beings. Also that's the reason they could keep their teacher position after decades of "mistakes". And that's why it is some fundamental (Western) ideas about Zen that is one source of the problem, namely the myth of Dharma transmission and the position it gives one.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 16th, 2012 at 11:09 PM
Title: Re: Zen has No Morals
Content:
Astus wrote:
However, when you are the enlightened Zen master, even your blinking is a Dharma teaching, not to mention alcoholism, abusing students and using all the money for your comfort.

From the paper: "In conclusion, I therefore concur with the aforementioned critics that the structure and teachings of Zen Buddhism itself lie at the root of the problem, and that the many cases of sexual or other teacher misconduct are merely symptoms thereof."


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 16th, 2012 at 5:44 PM
Title: Zen has No Morals
Content:
Astus wrote:
“Accusations, slander, attributions of guilt, alleged misconduct, even threats and persecution will not disturb [the Zen Master] in his practice. Defending himself would mean participating again in a dualistic game that he has moved beyond.”
- Dr. Klaus Zernickow

“It is unfair to conclude that my silence implies that I must be what the letters say I am. Indeed, in Japan, to protest too much against an accusation is considered a sign of guilt.”
- Eido T. Shimano

Short description of the paper and link to the paper itself at the bottom: http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=70,10983,0,0,1,0


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 16th, 2012 at 5:20 PM
Title: Re: Using buddhism to sell stuff
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://vajrasecrets.com/books/english-books/gurus-for-hire-enlightenment-for-sale.html


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 16th, 2012 at 4:56 PM
Title: Re: I have a good karma question, please answer.
Content:
Astus wrote:
An action has internal and external results. The internal result becomes the basis of karma, the moral causality that is carried on within the mind stream. The external result is not a moral matter, as it is not personal, therefore not karma. That way the karma of giving is completed once the money is handed over in this case.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, July 14th, 2012 at 8:23 PM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
dharmagoat said:
The community of noble beings preserve the understanding of the final teaching of the Buddha, and are therefore the ones that know what the Buddha actually believed?

Astus wrote:
The buddha-nature, the eye of awakening, is present in all, but only those who have actually opened it realise the way things truly are. And that is the correct faith of a buddha.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, July 14th, 2012 at 6:37 PM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
dharmagoat said:
So the original question remains. Can we know what the Buddha believed based on what he taught?

If all teachings but the final teaching lack context and are limited in meaning, can they be used to gauge what the Buddha actually believed?
What is the final teaching, and does anyone fully understand it?

Astus wrote:
The teaching is confirmed by proper reasoning and personal insight, the tradition of that is preserved by the community of the noble beings, the third jewel of Buddhism.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 13th, 2012 at 6:38 PM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
Simon E. said:
There is also the point that although we know what Dogen taught the Interpretation of that teaching has been a matter of debate and division ever since, and that continues.
...
And some of them representing large numbers of adherents deny that Dogen taught literal post mortem Rebirth AT ALL.. Me, I have no idea who is right.
In the case of the Buddha I remain completely unconvinced that we have any idea at all what he taught.

Astus wrote:
What debate and division do you mean? Sotoshu is actually quite unified.

What large number of adherents? Do you mean in the West or in Japan? Just because Western Zen followers is still a minority anyway.

As for not being sure about the Buddha's teaching, that is something you have to sort out for yourself. Faith is something that comes with learning and experience.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 13th, 2012 at 6:25 PM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
dharmagoat said:
Just to be clear, I am challenging the claim that we can know what the Buddha and Dogen believed based on what they taught.

The Buddha taught different things to different people depending on their needs and understanding. Sometimes his teachings were contradictory. Was he lying to some and not to others, or was he exercising skillful means in each case?

Astus wrote:
Skilful means doesn't mean it is not true, but that it is not the final teaching. The path is a gradual one, so one should not stop on level one. And just because there are further levels, the higher ones don't invalidate the lowers, but rather give them context and further meaning. Also, if the Buddha spoke anything that was not true, he failed to uphold the basic precepts, and that is impossible.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 13th, 2012 at 4:38 PM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
Astus wrote:
Saying that what the Buddha and Dogen taught are not what they believed and realised is saying that they were speaking lies.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 13th, 2012 at 5:26 AM
Title: Re: Shin and "Bhakti Devotion"?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is no point in worshipping Amita Buddha. True faith means believing completely in the primal vow, that our birth in the Pure Land is guaranteed. And the reason of achieving birth there is to swiftly attain enlightenment and liberate all beings. One is thankful for Amita Buddha's great compassion, just as we feel gratitude toward someone who gave us something of immense worth.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 13th, 2012 at 5:19 AM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
tomamundsen said:
Brad just blogged about this topic again yesterday - http://suicidegirlsblog.com/blog/brad-warners-hardcore-zen-what-happens-after-you-die/ " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Astus wrote:
Using the teaching of no-self to deny rebirth? That is not understanding the relationship between dependent origination and emptiness, thus falling into the nihilist interpretation. Not to mention that in Mahayana rebirth could not be any more obvious as the bodhisattva path itself goes through immeasurable number of lives.

Using the SotoZen-Net's glossary (underlines added),

http://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/library/glossary/individual.html?key=bodhisattva
S. bodhisattva, literally "awakening" (bodhi) "being" (sattva). 1. An epithet for the Buddha Shakamuni in his former lives, before becoming a buddha. 2. Any sentient being on the path to buddhahood, which is described in Mahayana sutras as beginning with a vow to attain awakening for the sake of all living beings and not to pass into nirvana while any beings remain suffering in the round of birth and death. 3. Exalted beings who have advanced so far on the path to awakening as to be virtually equal to buddhas in their wisdom, compassion, and ability to help ordinary beings. High level bodhisattvas such as Kannon, Fugen, Miroku, and Jizō are worshipped and prayed to as savior deities.

http://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/library/glossary/individual.html?key=birth_and_death
S. sasāra. 1. The round (rinne 輪廻) of repeated deaths and births in different modes of sentient existence, conditioned by karma (actions and their results). 2. A continuous process of change taking place every instant, that is, "momentary birth and death" (setsuna shōji 刹那生死), conditioned by karma. 3. The entire life-span of a sentient being, from birth until death (ichigo shōji 一期生死).


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 12th, 2012 at 10:17 PM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
Astus wrote:
As for Soto Zen, here's the Dedication of Merit verse from the daily practice booklet ( http://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/practice/sutra/pdf/Scriptures.pdf ):

"With the good karma gathered in this practice, we repay the virtuous toils of our fathers and mothers, that the living may be blessed with joy and long life without dis- tress, and the deceased freed from suffering and born in the pure land. May the four benefactors, sentient beings in the three classes of existence, and those born in the three evil destinies and eight difficulties all be able to repent their transgressions, purify their defects, entirely escape the round of rebirth, and be bom in the pure land."

And there are quite a few other rituals and ceremonies (like funerals) present in Soto Zen that would have no meaning at all without rebirth.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 12th, 2012 at 4:49 PM
Title: Re: Soto-zen, Dogen and reincarnation
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it is a good indicator of understanding whether a teacher accepts rebirth or not. It's because one needs to comprehend dependent origination, the way the aggregates function, and avoid the extreme views of permanence and annihilation. That is also why "correct view" is first of all defined as accepting the work of karma and rebirth.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 at 9:45 PM
Title: Re: Four Dharmas of Longchenpa
Content:
Astus wrote:
How about this one?

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/advanced/dzogchen/basic_points/four_themed_precious_garland.html


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 at 5:16 PM
Title: Re: The Tao of Zen?
Content:
Ikkyu said:
The Tao has no character or components. It cannot be named or described. It is changeless, formless, outside of ordinary existence and yet intimately connected with all. Similarly, Nibbana has no characteristics. If it did it would be subject to no-self and thus be suffering, which it is not. It exists beyond duality, just as the Tao is beyond duality. They are both beyond being and non-being. The purpose of Taoism is to be one with -- essentially to attain -- Tao... to be one with existence and understand things as they are (c.f. dharmata/thathata). The purpose of Buddhism is to attain Nibbana, quite similar.

Astus wrote:
Such a description of nirvana makes it a metaphysical, abstract thing. That way people can match it with any such similar notion of God/Truth/Heaven/Soul/etc. as they like. First of all, nirvana is not a thing, a state, or a realm, but the final end of the causes of suffering. Like, if you quit smoking, being a non-smoker is not some special realisation, it is simply that you don't want any more tobacco. And not wanting more is just the lack of desire, not aversion or anything else. Nirvana is the lack of identifying with the five aggregates, no more "I, me, mine". Or, using emptiness, it is the lack of grasping at views, not reifying things any more. But neither emptiness, nor selflessness are new states or things. That's why it is also called seeing things as they really are (yathā-bhūta-jñāna-darśana), or simply suchness (tathatā). It is also seeing dependent origination, as dependent origination is emptiness itself, they are not separate. That's how on a single blade of grass there are infinite buddhas.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 9th, 2012 at 4:16 PM
Title: Re: The Tao of Zen?
Content:
Ikkyu said:
I would say you are mistaken. A number of books have been published over the years such as "Buddhism Without Beliefs"... taking the ritualistic and religious element out of Buddhism in order to convey it purely as a philosophy.

Astus wrote:
Those are philosophising about Buddhism, just as anyone can use bits and pieces from the Buddha's teachings. Taoist and Neo-Confucian works also contain elements from Buddhist teachings, and it doesn't make them Buddhists either.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 5th, 2012 at 4:01 PM
Title: Re: Questions regardin God and Nirvana
Content:
jeeprs said:
No. It sounds like nihilism.

Astus wrote:
It is the end of suffering, not the end of everything.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 5th, 2012 at 3:58 PM
Title: Re: Questions regardin God and Nirvana
Content:
asunthatneversets said:
Nirvana does sever the allure of attachment, and true nirvana surely is the end of attachment, but the cause of suffering isn't necessarily attachment itself. The cause, is the erroneous notion that there was ever an A to be attached to B in the first place. So perhaps we're saying the same thing and I'm misreading what you wrote, but for me nirvana is a bit more than merely turning away, or leaving behind attachment, it's true extinction and total exhaustion of that which attachment is predicated on.

Astus wrote:
I merely talked about the third noble truth, the ending of suffering, which is nirvana. Of course, adding to that the whole 12 links of dependent origination, and its reverse (see: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.023.than.html is absolutely fine. The final steps are:

concentration -> knowledge & vision of things as they actually are -> disenchantment -> dispassion -> release -> knowledge of ending

Now there is another thing regarding views and ignorance, that are called the four perversions/inverted views ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.049.than.html ). It is seeing what is impermanent as permanent, suffering as pleasure, not-self as self, impure as pure. This shows simply how confused we are and what kind of confusion is to be removed. Attachment is ultimately based on ignorance, and ignorance is not realising the four noble truths, how suffering dependently arises and disappears.

I emphasise this very basic explanation of nirvana in order to avoid difficult terminology like ending all views, insight into non-arising, realising all appearances as consciousness, etc. Isn't it clear just to say that as long as there is attachment to impermanent things one necessarily experiences the different forms of suffering? Of course, once one actually sees that things are impermanent, there is the way to be free from them. Again, I don't see it as anything mystical, but quite sensible.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 5th, 2012 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: Questions regardin God and Nirvana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nirvana means extinction. It is the extinction of the cause of suffering, it is the end of attachment. As an example, A is in love with B, then eventually A becomes bored with B, then A feels that B is getting rather annoying, and finally A happily leaves B. Simple story. When A finally gives up on B, that is the nirvana, the total extinction of A's infatuation with B. All beings are very much attached to the sensual impressions, their emotions and their ideas. But when one learns that it is this grasping of phenomena that is causing all the trouble, one gradually becomes disinterested in them, and turns away from them. And that is nirvana, when one has left behind all attachment for good. The bonfire of passion is now a pile of cold ash. The love story is over. Does this sound like a mystical experience? Or a divine presence?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, July 3rd, 2012 at 7:39 PM
Title: Re: Karma in Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
Hm. I never actually watched the video here but went to Youtube. So what I've seen was already linked, the 40 mins film.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, July 3rd, 2012 at 7:32 PM
Title: Re: Is Shikantaza......
Content:
Astus wrote:
Vipassana is indeed a Pali word, and just as any Theravada teaching, it has little relevance to Japanese Zen. The vipasyana (kan) practice of the Tendai school has some relevance, but not direct relationship. Shikantaza is not a path, not a method to apply, but just (shikan) sitting (taza).

BTW, the practice of vipassana is not specifically related to the Thai forest tradition. In fact, the modern vipassana groups (bearing this name) are from Burma.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 2nd, 2012 at 6:11 PM
Title: Re: Ask a Transgender Buddhist
Content:
Astus wrote:
How do you balance the teaching on identification causing suffering and the gender identity that seems a core value for you?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 2nd, 2012 at 3:35 PM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
There are a couple of Mahayana traditions where they take the Nirvana Sutra as an important scripture, like in Tiantai and Chan. However, if you say they have no meditation like the one you say exists in the sutra itself, it is either that there has never been such a meditation, or there was but disappeared, or the meditation exists in the traditions but not the way you understand the sutra.

For instance, Hongren's (5th patriarch of Chan) Treatise on the Supreme Vehicle (quotes from T. Cleary: Minding Mind) refers to the Nirvana Sutra three times (quite a lot in a small work) says simply,

"If you can just keep the mind still so that errant thought does not arise, the reality of nirvana will naturally appear. This is how we know the inherent mind is originally pure."

And also,

"When errant imagining ceases, you are accurately aware. By virtue of accurate awareness, dispassionately perceptive knowledge arises. By dispassionately perceptive knowledge, one finds out the nature of reality. By finding out the nature of reality, one attains nirvana. This is how we know that preserving the fundamental true mind is the basis of nirvana."


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 2nd, 2012 at 4:39 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm not sure which one is the case, but it seems the question is either said incorrectly by me, or I don't see the answers' relevance to it, or its meaning has eluded those who have kindly replied. So now I try from a slightly different perspective.

Let's say that the alayavijnana is simply a theoretical supposition, a convenient explanation about how memory, mind and karma works. The seeds are simply our unquestioned views we follow all the time. Once seen through, it's all gone. Unfortunately, this makes the whole argument for alayavijnana quite weak.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 30th, 2012 at 3:34 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
deepbluehum said:
Are you aware of all your memories this moment? Normally we don't pay any attention to how we operate so we respond to phenomena conditioned by our memories. When we practice the path, we become aware that a given situation always generates a certain feeling, then we come to recognize the feeling has no real nature, that no feeler can be found, etc., and the conditioned response is subverted. Yet, the remaining awareness that is beyond subject and object is present, and that is the alaya-vijnana.

Astus wrote:
Of course I am not aware of all my memories, and even if I wanted I could not recall everything. Still, it is said that the alayavijnana retains all the imprints not just from this life but all the previous ones, and that's how a karmic effect can occur kalpas later. My question, however, is not about how it happens in our lives, but how can those be reserved moment to moment in the consciousness while one is not conscious of them. Because if it is indeed in the consciousness, and consciousness means being conscious of something, there should be consciousness of all the imprints. So either it is not in the consciousness, or consciousness doesn't mean being conscious of something. What is the third option?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 30th, 2012 at 3:14 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
deepbluehum said:
BTW, seed is just a metaphor. There's no actual seed. It is the operation of three faculties of the mind carrying on habitual actions.

Astus wrote:
I don't think it is important whether you call it habit, defilement, imprint, seed, etc. In all cases what is meant is latent mental phenomenon not experienced in the present, it is a so called potential. And so my question, why is it a mental phenomenon when there is no awareness of it?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 30th, 2012 at 3:12 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
gregkavarnos said:
Now you shifted the posts again, you went from awareness to feeling to consciousness.  I cannot play the game if you keep changing the rules.
Yes, well... but even nama is broken up into citta, vijnana, mano vijnana, manas and alaya vijnana, so... Again, you need to define your question more accurately:  You can't get an answer if you don't know the question.  This was Ven. Huifengs point right from page 1. And from the Vijnaptimatra view, whatever experience there is, it is a mental phenomenon anyway.
Again, yes, well, I mean , really, what exactly does this have to do with anything?  Know what I mean?

Anyway, within the confines of Abhidhamma I think I have answered your original question, so if you have a new question, otherwise... Arivederci from me!

Astus wrote:
I have not changed the subject for even a tiny bit. Consciousness, awareness, etc. they all mean the fact of experiencing something. And when I say experience it is something that appears in a consciousness, and one is conscious, i.e. aware of something. This was the very definition of consciousness I have quoted from Vasubandhu in the previous page, "What is consciousness? It is awareness of an object." It is simply the dharmadhatu-manodhatu-manovijnana in the 18 dhatus system, it is the sixth sensory faculty, that includes all possible mental functions in the Abhidharma system, that is defined by being aware of an object. Putting it in the Yogacara context, the basic consciousness, alayavijnana, is also defined by awareness. That's why I said that since the very essence of consciousness in general - no matter which of the 6/8 consciousness one talks about - is the fact of awareness of something. And that's what the question comes from, that if consciousness - including alayavijnana - is necessarily being conscious of something, how is it that one is not, and actually cannot be, conscious of the seeds.

And so the Mahayanasamgraha (1.26) puts a difference between the alayavijnana and the other seven,

"The other consciousnesses are different from the container consciousness. They are the active consciousnesses that are present in all births and destinies. Know that they are also called the experiential consciousnesses, as taught in a verse from the Analysis of the Middle and the Extremes:
The first is termed causal consciousness
And the second experiential consciousness
Wherein the mental states of sense experience,
Discrimination of names, and activity take place."

This could very well be interpreted as that although it is called container consciousness, it is not conscious at all. Then why called consciousness?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 30th, 2012 at 12:28 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
LastLegend said:
P.S. Alaya is not physical so does it have a limited storage capacity?

Astus wrote:
It doesn't. Since it is not physical, it does not occupy any space.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 30th, 2012 at 12:03 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
LastLegend said:
Well can we be conscious of everything at the same time? The mind can only focus on one object at the time.

Astus wrote:
Seeds exist only momentarily, so there are thousands of them in the mind at the same time. How can it manage that then?

LastLegend said:
It is not there when there is no trigger or association, it arises when there is. So is it there?

Astus wrote:
Alayavijnana is supposed to store everything, including memories.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
LastLegend said:
Memories for example only come when there is a trigger be an event or a thought.

I don't really see what you are getting at here. I rather you outright state what your beliefs than beating around the bush.

Astus wrote:
There is no belief in the back. But we can apply the question to memory too. If memories are in the mind, and mind is being conscious, why aren't we conscious of our memories?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Greg,

By awareness I did not mean any particular function, but simply consciousness. Or I can also say that except for rupaskandha all the others belong to nama; also, they are within the sixth ayatana, where the dharmas are the objects of manas. And from the Vijnaptimatra view, whatever experience there is, it is a mental phenomenon anyway.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
deepbluehum said:
There's no problem. You are toiling with the idea of a dependently originated object. The seed is a contingent remainder of the three prior consciousnesses working together. It can only operate so long as you are caught unawares. As soon as you see this operation, it stops.

Astus wrote:
And my issue is with the seed as mental phenomenon. Here it makes no difference that it is a contingent remainder or whatever else. The question is regarding it's nature of existence. For instance, you say, "It can only operate so long as you are caught unawares", but how can a consciousness operate without being conscious?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 9:22 PM
Title: Re: Sudden Enlightenment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sudden enlightenment is directly seeing the nature of mind. That can result in permanent liberation in rare cases, but most of the times it is insight into truth, but then one has to keep working with that to stabilise the realisation.

BTW, Huineng's true enlightenment occurred when he had a secret meeting with Hongren.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 4:37 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
deepbluehum said:
You become aware of it by practicing the 5 paths. You probably want to see Maitreya's treatises.

Astus wrote:
Can you give some closer reference, like which treatise, which chapter, where it talks about becoming aware of alayavijnana and the seeds?

deepbluehum said:
They can only function so long as the alaya-vijnana has not been perceived. Once it is perceived, they cease to function.

Astus wrote:
In that case, there are no seeds left to become aware of. And this is what I mentioned as the problem, that in the end nobody ever sees any seed.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 4:28 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
Huifeng said:
anusaya

Astus wrote:
How does that make the issue simpler? Latent defilements or seeds are both supposed to be mental phenomena that we are unaware of, and by definition they are meant to be latent. Which is OK, but then why are they mental? Or should we say that consciousness is not the essence of mind?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 6:56 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
deepbluehum said:
How come emotion can arise even if one doesn't want it to? There is clearly some process going on that one is not aware of and it is happening in your conscious mind. You are ignoring it. What you are ignoring is the alaya-vijnana. This is the meaning of avidya. Once you become aware of the alaya, these habits cannot arise.

Astus wrote:
How do you define ignorance in this case? Being ignorant of what? The alayavijnana itself? And how do you become aware of it? Or rather the ignorance in this case should be not realising that all is consciousness. But I'd still like to find a reference from actually being aware of seeds in a treatise.

Another problem is that the seeds are meant to be latent, they are defined as such. And when one is enlightened, the seeds are gone.

"The support is then converted. When that support is entirely converted, then the container consciousness with all its seeds is entirely eliminated together with all those seeds." (Asanga: Summary of the Great Vehicle, 1.48)


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 4:38 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
gregkavarnos said:
You keep changing the goal posts.  A minute ago you were talking about awareness and now you are talking about feeling.  So whht are we talking about?  Awareness or feeling?

One can be angry and not be aware that they are angry.  It happens all the time.

Astus wrote:
Because feeling is a form of awareness I don't see any change of topic here. Seeing something and hearing something both have awareness. If I'm not aware of seeing or hearing something, then I don't see or hear it. Same with feeling.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 4:37 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
gregkavarnos said:
Yes, but at the same time "The aggregates, the elements and the sense factors of beings..." are the products of karma.  Realising ones true nature alows one to see ones karmic seeds since they are the source of the aggregates, the elements and the sense factors of beings and at the same time the aggregates, the elements and the sense factors of beings are part of ones Buddha Nature.

Astus wrote:
Anyone who followed the pointing out instructions of Mahamudra has seen the nature of mind. But who has seen thousands of seeds? Also, there is another problem with this. They are called seeds because of their latency.

Vasubandhu writes, "What is consciousness? It is awareness of an object. ... Primarily, thought is the storehouse consciousness, because that is where the seeds of all the formations are collected." (Pancaskandhaprakarana in "The Inner Science of Buddhist Practice", p. 239)

So, even if there is talk about gross and subtle consciousness, all the seeds present in a single moment should be observable.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 3:17 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
gregkavarnos said:
There are numerous mental phenomena occuring that I am not aware of.  Take anger for example.  You can be angry and so caught up in the feeling that you not aware of your anger.  I can be aware of my capacity for anger yet not be currenlty expressing or feeling anger.

Astus wrote:
Does one feel angry when one is angry? Of course. Without feeling anger one can't be angry. The feeling itself is the consciousness in this case. What you say by not recognising on another level that one is angry, not identifying in a verbal-conceptual way with the idea of anger, is another thing.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
gregkavarnos said:
What is the source of  the aggregates, the elements and the sense factors of beings?

You are missing the forest for the trees my dear Astus.  Looking to find specific words instead of seeing the meaning.

Astus wrote:
OK. It says, "The aggregates, the elements and the sense factors of beings have all from the beginning the true nature of awakened male and female buddhas and deities." That's almost like saying that the aggregates, etc. are selfless, empty. It confirms the original purity of all phenomena. And so I ask how that relates to karmic seeds.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 29th, 2012 at 12:06 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Anjali,

We suppose an unconscious mind, but since we are never aware of it, it is only a supposition, an explanation without experiential basis. We could as well think that latencies abide on the other side of the universe, or whatever we like. And I'm not bringing in any Madhyamaka arguments, like from the Madhyamakavatara.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 28th, 2012 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Greg,

I can turn it into a quite simple problem:

If we are not aware of seeds, how can they be mental phenomena? If we are aware of seeds, how could they be latent?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 28th, 2012 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
deepbluehum said:
What you are dealing with here is the problem of avidya. How can anger arise without your being conscious of it? Once it's full blown, you are conscious of it. But it comes on to you unawares. As soon as the circumstances align, it jumps out. This is the meaning of seed. Eye organ contacts object, pleasant or painful, generates eye-consciousness, aroused by memory and then anger can arise. This is the seed. In a sense Alaya-vijnana is memory stored deep in the "unconscious."

So the "seeds" are dependent originations. Buddhas don't see them because of that. So turning your attention to the process, seeing nothing, they disappear, slowly never to reappear. That's how it goes.

Astus wrote:
You just say that there is alayavijnana, but you don't answer how can there be mental phenomena without being aware of them. It is a problem because if there is no need of consciousness for a mental phenomena, then there are thoughts without being thought, and even a stone could have mental phenomena.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 28th, 2012 at 10:33 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Greg, yes, that's it. Where does it say that with realising Mahamudra you can observe karmic seeds?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 28th, 2012 at 8:53 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
gregkavarnos said:
Aaaahhh... here is a reference for you:  Dispelling misconceptions about the True Nature, Lesson 62 from Mahamudra - The Ocean of True Meaning

Astus wrote:
That part talks only about how the buddha-mind is full of good qualities. Doesn't even mention karmic seeds or alayavijnana. Are you sure that's your reference?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 28th, 2012 at 8:26 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
Huifeng said:
In particular, the ramifications and indeed requirements once alaya is established as a vijnana, as opposed to the collection of bijas.

Astus wrote:
As a background info, I've been reading the Cheng Weishi Lun when these questions came up.

Even if we talk about seeds only, they are mental phenomena, and the questions remain. How can a mental phenomenon exist without the mind being conscious of it?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 28th, 2012 at 6:44 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Greg,

Do you have any reference for that? I mean, I haven't yet read anywhere that when abiding in the nature of mind, you see all the seeds that are present in the alayavijnana.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 28th, 2012 at 5:36 PM
Title: Questioning Alayavijnana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Alayavijnana is used to explain how karma is carried on from moment to moment, life to life, and also it is a basis for the continuation of a being. Here are some problems I have:

If alayavijnana is a part/mode of consciousness, why are we not aware of it?
If we can't be aware of it, what makes it part of the consciousness? / If there can be a part of consciousness one is not aware of, what makes it consciousness?
If only buddhas are aware of it, since they have it already purified, even they can't see the defiled seeds, and so it's only an assumption.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 21st, 2012 at 5:34 AM
Title: Re: are the jhanas taught in zen/chan?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Yes, many different practices. From yeombul to hwadu they could all be named Zen methods. If compared to what we find in other schools, then only hwadu remains as a Zen style practice, and the others are what practically everyone has. However, hwadu was the invention of Dahui, so we can't really say that it is a technique that Bodhidharma brought to China. What is it that remains? No-thought, or in Budwell's translation, thoughtlessness.

As for the dhyanas, I think in Jinul's system it'd fit in all right to the samadhi practice of the gradual path. And that's what it is of course.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 20th, 2012 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: 'Rarity' of Vajrayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sherlock,

Shakyamuni in the early texts taught people to attain arhatship, not buddhahood. In fact, I have not heard or met any early scripture where Gautama advised people to become buddhas. On the other hand, he did say that there isn't much difference between an arhat and a buddha. Now, that's for "Theravada".

In Mahayana there is sudden enlightenment, even buddhahood in this life. For instance, it is a basic point of Zen.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 20th, 2012 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: are the jhanas taught in zen/chan?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jinul teaches both many methods and one method. Buswell writes in the introduction (Collected Works, p. 62)

"As his biographer, Kim Kun-su, first noted, Chinul tailored three main styles of Son practice which show the direct influences of his three enlightenment experiences: the balanced cultivation of samadhi and prajna, deriving from the Platform Satra; faith and understanding according to the complete and sudden teachings of the Hwaom school, from Li T'ung-hsuan's Exposition of the Avatamsaka Satra; and, finally, the shortcut approach of hwadu investigation, from the Records of Ta-hui. These styles were intended to instruct people of inferior, average, and superior spiritual capacities respectively. To supplement these three basic methods, Chinul taught two additional techniques for people of highest and lowest capacity: the approach of no-mind (thoughtlessness) and the recollection of the Buddha's name.230 He explained that each method could be followed exclusively or a progression from the simpler techniques to the more difficult could be cultivated."

As for the essential path, Jinul writes (Collected Works, p. 266),

"Consequently, even though we cultivate the manifold supplementary practices, they all have thoughtlessness as their core," If we can only maintain thoughtlessness, liking and disliking will naturally fade away, and compassion and wisdom will naturally grow in brightness; wrong actions will naturally be halted, and meritorious deeds will naturally be augmented. As far as our understanding is concerned, we will perceive that all signs are signless; as far as practice is concerned, it will be called the cultivation whereby nothing is cultivated. When the defilements are finally extirpated, birth and death will be cut off, As arising and ceasing have ended, a calm radiance will manifest and our responsiveness will be unlimited." This is called Buddhahood."


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 20th, 2012 at 1:44 AM
Title: Re: 'Rarity' of Vajrayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
I find it the same kind of motivational teaching as saying that human birth is rare, meeting the Dharma is rare, etc. The point is to go study and practise, otherwise you're just wasting your time.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 20th, 2012 at 1:41 AM
Title: Re: Vegetarianism in Zen, Chan, etc.
Content:
Astus wrote:
[quote="Matylda"What matters after all for me is the quality of teaching, quality of experience and realization. If it does not work then nothing really works. Regardless of celibacy, non-celibacy etc..[/quote]

Sherlock said:
what is more important is the state of Buddhadharma in Japan currently and its prospects for long-term survival.

Astus wrote:
And I can only agree with both of you. Many great masters in Japan taught lay people with the intention to enlighten them to the Dharma and liberate them all. Since I'm sure that people benefited greatly from Buddhism regardless of their ordination and social status, what we should be concerned about is our own wisdom and the happiness of everyone. It is easy to find bad things anywhere in the world, including monasteries. But if our mind is occupied by only this negative attitude it's hard to see the goodness and beauty. And even if we encounter something awful, the best thing to do is to understand it and learn how to avoid it.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 19th, 2012 at 10:41 PM
Title: Single Self-Sufficient Path
Content:
Astus wrote:
In the Jewel Ornament of Liberation (chapter on prajnaparamita, p. 251-255) Gampopa writes,
If the meaning of emptiness does not dwell within the mind, we cannot attain liberation by means of the other virtues.
When one is endowed with the meaning of emptiness, there is not a single thing which in not included in this path.

Cultivation of bodhicitta is also included. Visualization of the deity and the recitation of mantras are also said
to be complete when this [the realization of emptiness] exists. Performing fire-offering rituals is also included in this. Even the path—the six perfections—is complete in this. Doing prostrations is also included in this. It is also offering if one has this. Again, if one is endowed with this, it is also the very purification of evil deeds. The guarding of moral ethics and samaya is also included in this meaning. Listening, reflecting, and meditating are also encompassed in this meaning. Torma cakes and daily Dharma rituals are also included in this meaning.

In that case, if all these are included in meditating on only the essence or the mind-as-such, why do there appear teachings on so many graduated methods? It is for the purpose of leading all those sentient beings of little fortune, who are ignorant in the ultimate nature.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 19th, 2012 at 9:07 PM
Title: Re: The Healthy State of Buddhism, In Japan and Elsewere
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't know much about the current state of Japanese Buddhism, but it seems to me that just as in other areas of life, it is not simply black or white. I remember from the "Marathon Monks" film that they mention that those Tendai monks eat strictly vegetarian food. And in the Myoshinji line of Rinzai Zen the actual masters (from the rank "shike" 師家 and above) have to live in celibacy (Jørn Borup: Japanese Rinzai Zen Buddhism, p. 60). So there are those who live according to the old ideals of a home-leaver.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 19th, 2012 at 3:01 PM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Son of Buddha said:
MY REPLY:the answer is chapter 19 to chapter 46 from pg 134 to 477,the first 18 chapters are concept the rest are practice.read this then look for commentary on the empty of taint and not empty of itself emptiness and this will help.

Astus wrote:
Could you sum up the practical points?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 18th, 2012 at 9:01 PM
Title: Re: Taoism in general, specifically it's connections with Ch'an
Content:
gregkavarnos said:
seems VERY Daoist.  It seems too fluid to be purely Confucian.
... I was more throwing it out there as an example of the cross-fertilisation between indigenous Chinese culture and (Indian) Buddhism.

Astus wrote:
That's the point, it is just Chinese, old Chinese. A tarot deck is not Kabbalistic, Thelemic or Christian just because it shows some connection to each of them.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 18th, 2012 at 4:24 PM
Title: Re: Karma in Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thanks for the post. It was a good teaching, and good to see Dan Lusthaus.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 18th, 2012 at 5:35 AM
Title: Dzogchen Resources
Content:
Astus wrote:
Teachers and Communities

http://www.dzogchen.it/ of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
http://www.rigpa.org/ of Sogyal Rinpoche
http://www.dzogchen.org/ of Lama Surya Das
https://www.ligmincha.org/ of Geshe Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche
http://www.vajranatha.com/ of John Myrdhin Reynolds
http://www.nalandabodhi.org/ of Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche
http://www.simplybeing.co.uk/simply/Simply_Being_Dzogchen.html of James Low

Teachings

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav/n.html_1870389411.html
http://www.keithdowman.net/dzogchen/
http://www.zangthal.co.uk/files.html
http://www.nitartha.org/home.html

Local Topics of Interest

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8880
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8239
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4052


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 18th, 2012 at 5:35 AM
Title: Dzogchen Resources
Content:
Astus wrote:
Teachers and Communities

http://www.dzogchen.it/ of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
http://www.rigpa.org/ of Sogyal Rinpoche
http://www.dzogchen.org/ of Lama Surya Das
https://www.ligmincha.org/ of Geshe Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche
http://www.vajranatha.com/ of John Myrdhin Reynolds
http://www.nalandabodhi.org/ of Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche
http://www.simplybeing.co.uk/simply/Simply_Being_Dzogchen.html of James Low

Teachings

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav/n.html_1870389411.html
http://www.keithdowman.net/dzogchen/
http://www.zangthal.co.uk/files.html
http://www.nitartha.org/home.html

Local Topics of Interest

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8880
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8239
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4052


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, June 17th, 2012 at 3:37 PM
Title: Re: The Tao of Zen?
Content:
Ikkyu said:
I read your .pdf, and I personally found it lacking. While this individual asserts that there is no such things as Philosophical Taoism (Daojia), this is of course not true. It follows logic that between the periods in which the Tao Te Ching and Zhuangzi were written in the 4th century BCE and Religious Taoism came about in the 2nd century CE that there had to be some philosophical following of Taoism outside of ancestor and Heaven worship and the veneration of the Immortals or Shens.

See http://www.reformtaoism.org/.

Astus wrote:
Ancestor worship, rituals, magic, etc. are older than any writing, they are universal in almost every human culture. Organised Taoism, a Taoist self-awareness appeared after Buddhism reached and spread in China. There were philosophers, of course, just as there are New Age thinkers today without making it a single philosophy with fixed axioms.

You can of course interpret Laozi and Zhuangzi in a way that harmonises with Buddhism. Many did so before in East Asia. You can even find Buddhist commentaries. But then, it is not the same what those who are considered Taoists believe. It is also possible to read the Bible or the Bhagavad Gita, or practically any kind of book, with a Buddhist eye. Still, just because one likes to believe that Krsna was a bodhisattva, it won't make him a Hindu. In the same way, Buddhist teachings can be interpreted in a non-Buddhist way. What all this boils down to is a philosophical and theological debate on orthodoxy.

By the way, there is no such thing as philosophical Buddhism either.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, June 17th, 2012 at 7:52 AM
Title: Re: Sutra of the secret Essential Method of Dhyana
Content:
Matticus said:
Wow, this is fantastic, thanks again you guys.  I don't understand a word of it, but the first leg of the journey is complete!  Time to start bothering people I know that can read Chinese.....  Or learn it myelf??!!  DUN DUN DUN

Astus wrote:
Just make sure that those people can read classic Chinese with Buddhist terminology.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, June 17th, 2012 at 5:08 AM
Title: Re: The Tao of Zen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I recommend you first read this: http://www.daoistcenter.org/Daoism_Misconceptions.pdf (PDF) by Louis Komjathy, Ph.D. It gives a nice list of incorrect ideas. The http://www.daoistcenter.org/homepage.html is also a valuable source of information.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, June 17th, 2012 at 4:25 AM
Title: Re: The Tao of Zen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here's Chengguan's (4th patriarch of the Huayan school) view on the influence of Taoism on Buddhism.

豈言象之能至。故云迥出。又借斯亡絶以遣言思。 (T36n1736, p2 b19)
Words may resemble very much. But the cause (behind it) is very different. We borrow the words but not accept their meaning.

言有濫同釋教者。皆是佛法之餘。 (T35n1735, p521 b15-16)
Those who go too far and equate [false teachings] with Buddhism are all outside of the Buddhadharma.

無得求一時之小名。渾三教之一致。習邪見之毒種。為地獄之深因。開無明之源流。遏種智之玄路。誡之誡之。(T36n1736, p107 a11-13)
Do not seek after the trivial reputation of a single age and confuse the three teachings as one. Studying the poisonous seeds of false views is a deep cause for being born in hell, opens up the wellspring of ignorance, and blocks of the road to omniscience. Take heed! Take heed!

And his disciple, Zongmi says regarding Confucianism and Taoism, that is, the outer teachings:

由於時命；故死後卻歸天地，復其虛無。然外教宗旨，但在乎依身立行，不在究竟身之元由。所說萬物不論象外，雖指大道為本，而不備明順逆起滅染淨因緣，故習者不知是權，執之為了。(T45n1886, p708 a27-b4)
the essential meaning of the outer teachings merely lies in establishing [virtuous] conduct based on this bodily existence and does not lie in thoroughly investigating the ultimate source of this bodily existence. The myriad things that they talk about do not have to do with that which is beyond tangible form. Even though they point to the great Way as the origin, they still do not fully illuminate the pure and impure causes and conditions of conforming to and going against [the flow] of origination and extinction. Thus , those who study [the outer teachings] do not realize that they are provisional and cling to them as ultimate.

(Translations from Peter N. Gregory's "Inquiry into the Origin of Humanity")


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, June 17th, 2012 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: Copyrighted Dharma books
Content:
LastLegend said:
But what is wrong with letting people copying the work? Are they not generating merits for writers, compilers, editors, etc by spreading the understanding or teaching? Strictly speaking of Dharma books.

Astus wrote:
There are always costs involved in any kind of work. For religious books you pay in donation to the church, for writers, editors, publishers, retail shops and government/state services you pay for the book. There are free editions online of course, but even then somebody has to pay for the servers and donate work for editing and programming. For example, there are many sutras available online for free, and the different Buddhist canons are also published. If you speak Chinese for example, you have access to a huge number of Buddhist works and teachings for free and you can copy them as you like.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 16th, 2012 at 11:04 PM
Title: Re: Copyrighted Dharma books
Content:
Astus wrote:
You can teach a group of people from any book you like, and spread the understanding you gained from books. But, you are not allowed to sell the books under your name for instance.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 16th, 2012 at 6:10 PM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
The other two nirvanas the Lotus Sutra talks about is the nirvana of sravakas and pratyekabuddhas, and the only true liberation is buddhahood that the bodhisattvas attain. That is what the one vehicle means, that both sravakas and pratyekabuddhas will become bodhisattvas and attain buddhahood. The idea that the Lotus Sutra points to the Nirvana Sutra is not mentioned in the sutra itself, and the connection between them is not established in any of them. What the Lotus Sutra calls the previous sutras are the teachings taught to the sravakas, since they say that they have not heard about it before, but not the teachings of Mahayana. Also, the connection you make between the Lotus and the Nirvana Sutra are your interpretation and not stated in them. Explaining one with the other is possible, but not necessary at all. The Lankavatara Sutra is a teaching that actually talks about the buddha-nature, and it also says that (XXVIII): "the reason why the Tathagatas who are Arhats and Fully-Enlightened Ones, teach the doctrine pointing to the Tathagata-garbha is to make the ignorant cast aside their fear when they listen to the teaching of egolessness and to have them realise the state of non-discrimination and imagelessness." As Ven. Yinshun, a modern master, sums it up (The Way to Buddhahood, §182, p. 315), "Some may think that the law of arising and extinction/Cannot be the foundation of being bound and being liberated/Because they are afraid of the phrase "the nonexistence of the self."/Therefore, the Buddha again embraced them with skillful means." This way the Nirvana Sutra can be rendered into another of the skilful teachings of the Buddha. And that's what the Lotus Sutra actually says, that all and every teaching of the Buddha is a means to liberation. The teaching is not the liberation itself but only something that points to it. Whether one can be helped by this or that method is not important as long as it works. And that is what ultimately makes Buddhism a single vehicle.

So, the question then is, what actual method is taught in the Nirvana Sutra? With what can one attain liberation according to the Nirvana Sutra? Simply the statement that there is a buddha-nature is not a path, not a technique, but a concept. How can we work with that idea? What brings us to liberation in that?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 16th, 2012 at 4:18 AM
Title: Re: Sutra of the secret Essential Method of Dhyana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here is the Chinese on CBETA: http://www.cbeta.org/result/T15/T15n0613.htm


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 14th, 2012 at 9:47 PM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
What I'm missing from your response is the quote showing what other path the Lotus Sutra gives that is different what we find in other sutras. Also, the Lotus Sutra doesn't mention any sutra by title that would be inferior to it, it only talks about the inferiority of sravakas, but not bodhisattvas.

In the first chapter of the Lotus Sutra:
"At that time the Bhagavat was respectfully surrounded by the fourfold assembly (i.e., monks, nuns, laymen, laywomen), paid homage, honored, and praised. He then taught the bodhisattvas the Mahayana sutra called Immeasurable Meanings (Mahānirdeśa), the instruction for the bodhisattvas and the treasured lore of the buddhas."

From the http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra20.html:

“World-Honored One, what is this Dharma Door called? What is its meaning? How should Bodhisattvas train themselves?”
The Buddha replied, “Good men, this one Dharma Door is called Immeasurable Meaning. Bodhisattvas who wish to study and learn the immeasurable meaning should observe that dharmas have always been empty in nature and in appearance. With neither birth nor death, dharmas are neither large nor small, neither moving nor standing still, neither advancing nor retreating. Like space, they are non-dual.”

“The immeasurable meanings are born from one dharma. This one dharma is no appearance, which is not apart from appearance. The truth that appearance and no appearance are not apart from each other is called true reality. As Bodhisattva-Mahāsattvas abide in this true reality, the lovingkindness and compassion they exude are genuine, not false. They can truly end sentient beings’ suffering. Having rescued them from suffering, Bodhisattvas pronounce the Dharma to them, enabling them to experience happiness.

“Good men, if Bodhisattvas can train in this one Dharma Door of Immeasurable Meaning, they will quickly attain anuttara-samyak-saṁbodhi. Good men, this profound, unexcelled Mahāyāna Sūtra of Immeasurable Meaning is true in its principle and supreme in its dignity. It is protected by all Buddhas of the past, present, and future. No māras or non-Buddhists can enter it, nor can it be corrupted by the wrong views that perpetuate birth and death. Therefore, good men, Bodhisattva-Mahāsattvas who wish to attain the unsurpassed bodhi should study and learn this profound, unexcelled Mahāyāna Sūtra of Immeasurable Meaning.”


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 14th, 2012 at 7:59 PM
Title: Re: Master Seung Sahn's Enlightenment & Poem
Content:
seeker242 said:
Does he still study the scriptures after he has entered the "exhaustive investigation and grinding practice" stage? Or does he actually throw them away?

Astus wrote:
Consider these stories.

Once, when Daopi was reading a sutra he saw a monk coming for instruction. Daopi lifted his arm and covered his head with his sleeve. The monk came up to him and affected a sympathetic demeanor.
Daopi pulled his sleeve from his head, picked up the sutra, and said, "Do you understand?"
The monk then covered his own head with his sleeve.
Daopi said, "Blue heavens! Blue heavens!"

Once while the master [Zhaozhou] was reading the Vajracchedika Sutra a monk asked, "'All the Buddhas and the Perfect Wisdom of all the Buddhas can all be attained from this sutra.' What is this sutra?"
The master said, "'Diamond Prajna-paramita Sutra. Thus I have heard. Once the Buddha was in Sravasti...'"
The monk said, "That's not right."
The master said, "I can't amend the scriptures on my own."

When the Master (Mu-chou) was reading the sutras, the Minister Chen Tsao asked him, "Master, what sutra are you reading?" The Master said, "The Diamond sutra!" The Minister said, "The Diamond sutra was transleted in the Sixth Dynasty; which editino are you using?" The Master Lifter up the book and said, "All things produced by causation are simply an illusive dream and the shadow of a bubble."

When the Master (Mu-chou) was reading the Nirvana sutra, a monk asked him what sutra he was reading. The Master picked up the book and said, "This is the last one for cremation."


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 14th, 2012 at 4:51 PM
Title: Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen
Content:
shel said:
Why Jundo's personal crusade against the Buddhist doctrine that he cannot believe? Perhaps I'm afraid he will turn away people interested in Buddhism. Is that a good enough reason?

Astus wrote:
Jundo's crusade against the Buddhist doctrine? Where? He actively teaches Zen, he even has a unique form of online training that in my opinion is magnificent to have. He even gives ordination so others can start/lead communities in a more official-looking way.

True, has has a not so traditional view of the sutras. But there's nothing strange or new about that. Just look at Brad Warner and compare the two styles of teaching. Or there is Sanbo Kyodan, the largest lineage in the West, that even has Catholic priests as Zen teachers. I'm not defending Jundo's interpretation of the sutras, but calling it a crusade against Buddhism? That's hardly the case.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 14th, 2012 at 4:42 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts question
Content:
Astus wrote:
I've just found this one, another translation of the 9th Karmapa's instructions by a disciple of Gendun Rinpoche:

Henrik Havlat: Mahamudra - The Ocean of True Meaning
(also available in German)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 13th, 2012 at 6:41 PM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
"the Prajnaparmita sutras do discribe the Bodhisattva path,BUT the Lotus makes it clear the 6 parimitas are not the law,and the emptiness that was taught before the Lotus sutra was not emancipation."

What you say is based on the idea that there is a hierarchy among sutras, and your hierarchy is based on the Tiantai interpretation that the Lotus and Nirvana sutras are the highest, or on some Tibetan idea that the tathagatagarbha is the highest teaching. As for the first one of the Tiantai idea of the five periods, schools outside of Tiantai don't necessarily accept it. And the idea of the third turning of the wheel, that is not accepted by all schools either, nor is it interpreted in the same way in each school that accepts it. Beyond the ideas and interpretations of specific schools, the categorisation of sutras is arbitrary and not based on the texts themselves. Why? Because almost every sutra claims superiority above all other teachings, and neither the Lotus nor the Nirvana sutra is special in that. As the Diamond Sutra (ch. 8, tr. C. Muller) says, "all of the buddhas and all of their teachings of peerless perfect enlightenment spring forth from this sūtra."
So, where does the Lotus Sutra says explicitly that the six paramitas are superseded by a different path?

"I would need more detail or explaination for this qoute,are you saying it is empty of Tainted defilements and samasa existance)i wouod agree)?I also wouldnt say it exists provisionally at once,the Nirvana sutra speaks of that which is emty of false self and tainted ego defilments,then states the Tathagatagarbha isnt empty of itself and is permanet,so it wouldnt exist "provisionally" it would exist as the reality of all Phenonina."

It means that things exist provisionally (conventional truth) but does not exist ultimately as self-existent things (ultimate truth). This is the middle way, the non-dual view. This is the correct understanding of emptiness in the Prajnaparamita sutras, Madhyamaka and Yogacara.

When you say that the buddha-nature is not empty of itself, what is itself?

"which would mean empty of everything even itelf,which means everything including the Buddha is subject to dependant origination"

That's absurd. The point of being enlightened is that one becomes free of karma, free of rebirth, free of dependent origination. It is exactly because there is no self that there is freedom. If there was a self, it would be either deluded or enlightened, making any path of liberation impossible or unnecessary.

"the Best view I have come across tht discribes the Emptiness that is empty of all defilments but is not empty of its ultimate reality would be the view of shentong,"

Emptiness is not a thing, it means that appearances are without an independent self-nature, thus they are dependently originated.

As for Shentong, Taranatha says (in "Essence of Zhentong" http://www.jonangfoundation.org/files/jf_snying%20po_final.pdf ),
"Naturally radiant self-cognizant pristine awareness that is not divided from the expanse is known as ultimate reality, the unconditional actuality of phenomena."

"Because of this, the essence of the tathāgatas and the nondual pristine awareness that pervades the nature of phenomena are equally adorned with all of the ultimate enlightened qualities of buddhahood. Just this great and invariable perfected nature is endowed with every aspect of pristine awareness while remaining free from all fabrications. This is the only unmistaken abiding reality. Because it is established as real, it is the object of experience for the undistorted pristine awareness of the exalted ones. Because it is invariable, it is constant, stable, and everlasting."

"To relinquish your subtle fixations on the discursive thinking of the relative, meditatively subsume yourself non-conceptually within the expanse. Through this process, you will then gradually come to encounter the non-conceptual enlightened essence directly."
As was discussed already, the realisation of emptiness is non-conceptuality, and it is exactly the way to realise buddha-nature. That's why Taranatha says, "So, those who assert rangtong unerringly, and those who definitively assert that there is no essence are both proponents of zhentong." This awareness is prajnaparamita, that's why it's also called the mother of buddhas.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 13th, 2012 at 4:49 PM
Title: Re: Master Seung Sahn's Enlightenment & Poem
Content:
mujushinkyo said:
Of course. "Don't-know." I don't-know every day. I'm educated, but it doesn't matter. I don't believe studying sutras leads anywhere. At least not for me. What about for you?

Astus wrote:
For me, sutras are the primary authority within Buddhism, all teachings are derived from them. The words of Shakyamuni are the Dharma, all the other works are only commentaries. Therefore, the guidance for the path is found in the sutras first. That's why they are important to me. To give a Zen example, Bodhidharma handed the Lankavatara Sutra to Huike to give an authentic basis for what he taught.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 12th, 2012 at 5:40 AM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Astus wrote:
By Chinese Caodong I meant the Song dynasty tradition. Ven. Shengyan reintroduced somewhat the practice of silent illumination in Taiwan, but it's modern as you said. Regarding practice with koans, just as you said, it was part of Japanese Soto too. As for distinguishing Linji and Caodong, it makes practically no difference in China, just as you can't make a difference between one monk and another by the practices they do. It seems to me that while sitting meditation is a common practice, reducing the whole teachings to that is quite another matter. It's like what Honen did with reducing everything to buddha-remembrance, something that never really happened anywhere else. It would appear that this kind of emphasis on a single method in Japan is a unique historical phenomenon, especially as they could survive to this day.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 12th, 2012 at 5:26 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan, Pali and Chinese canons: differences?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There are several editions of the East Asian Tripitaka. The commonly used Taisho Tripitaka was assembled in the 20th century and it has 100 volumes. Here is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taish%C5%8D_Shinsh%C5%AB_Daiz%C5%8Dky%C5%8D. Additionally there is the Zokuzokyo canon that has 88 volumes and contains texts not found in the Taisho Canon. Additionally to that there is the Jiaxing Canon that contains further texts from the MIng and Qing dynasty not contained in the other two, and is somewhat larger than the Taisho Canon. These are all modern collections.

There are also older editions, like the https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B9%BE%E9%9A%86%E8%97%8F (1733), the http://baike.baidu.com/view/111081.htm (1372), and others before them. The oldest complete collection that still exists in woodblocks is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripi%E1%B9%ADaka_Koreana (1251).

As for which one is the biggest canon, that requires a definition of canon. If canonical works are strictly of Indian origin, then it might be the Tibetan because of the tantras - although the Chinese also have a large collection of them - as Jnana said. If a canon is not restricted to Indian origin - since it is common in East Asian canons to have all sorts of commonly accepted works being included - it is the Chinese (by which I mean a language, not a nation).


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 12th, 2012 at 3:34 AM
Title: Re: Signs of progress
Content:
Astus wrote:
In Mahamudra you find the four yogas and each yoga's three levels. They describe the gradual path. You can find an extended explanation on it in Tashi Namgyal's "Mahamudra: the Moonlight".

Some online sources:

http://luminousemptiness.blogspot.hu/2008/07/song-of-distinguishing-four-yogas.html by Milarepa
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=4999 by Venerable Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_5TvB4lXfw - a video lecture by the Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 12th, 2012 at 3:13 AM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jundo,

I follow you. But you're right, Dogen's style of teaching did not touch me. Keizan is closer to me, although I have read only one work from him. Beyond that, I think only Anzan Hoshin's way of instructing I like of those few I know from Japanese Soto Zen. Chinese Caodong is a different matter. But this is really a matter of style.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 11th, 2012 at 10:13 PM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jundo,

So much complication about sitting. Everybody in an office sits about 8 hours a day or more. That's why personally this idea that sitting has to be done in a ritual way, including a special posture, is not appealing as the central meaning of Zen. Sure, sitting in the right way has its benefits, that's why they use it everywhere in Buddhism and outside of it. For some reason Dogen's way of presenting simple sitting meditation is similar to Shinran's manipulation with the nenbutsu that is basically just reciting the name.

Daehaeng Sunim's approach is a lot more sensible to me:

"When some people first hear about letting go, it seems too ambiguous or difficult. They feel uncertain about what to do when they hear about letting go, because no method or detailed instruction is given. You may feel that you have to use sitting meditation in order to practice. However, your mind doesn't sit just because your body does. Meditation is done through mind, not through the body. You have to begin by taking care of problems through mind. You're doing things backward if you're trying to use your body to grasp your mind."
(No River to Cross, p. 54)


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 11th, 2012 at 9:19 PM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Astus wrote:
Matylda,

I don't know that much about kanjis to be able to comprehend it fully when the character is broken down to elements, but I have seen that kind of explanation, although not yet for shikantaza itself. As for the "taza", yes, it was a Buddhist dictionary that came up with a meaning on its own, but in Chinese they still have it within everyday language, if a non-specialised dictionary is any indication.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 11th, 2012 at 8:06 PM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Matylda said:
SHIKAN TAZA 只管打坐

只 - SHI - only; free
管 - KAN - pipe; tube; wind instrument; drunken talk; control; jurisdiction
打 - TA - strike; hit; knock; pound;
坐 - ZA - sit

Astus wrote:
If you don't mind, it's made of two words only, and the reading exists both in Japanese and Chinese.

只管 -
Chinese: zhǐ​guǎn : solely engrossed in one thing / just (one thing, no need to worry about the rest) / simply / by all means / please feel free / do not hesitate (to ask for sth)
Japanese: hitasura / shikan : nothing but; earnest; intent; determined; set on (something)

打坐 -
Chinese: dǎ​zuò : sit in meditation / to meditate
Japanese: taza : to sit for meditation


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 11th, 2012 at 6:20 PM
Title: Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?
Content:
Simon E. said:
You accurately sum up the Buddhist view. However this is not the View in Dzogchen.

Astus wrote:
AFAIK, neither dependent origination nor karma is missing from Dzogchen, just as Dzogchen ngondro (Longchen Nyingtig, Dudjom Tersar) contains the four thoughts.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 11th, 2012 at 5:57 PM
Title: Re: Becoming a Monk
Content:
tracefleeman said:
I don't have any money :/

Astus wrote:
Travelling requires money, so if you don't have a monastery that accepts you for a few weeks, you should consider other options. For instance, doing a home retreat following a proper daily schedule. The book http://www.ymba.org/monkey/monkyfrm.htm has advices on retreats, but you can find other sources too, like the Perfect Enlightenment Sutra, or perhaps ask assistance from a monk/teacher through e-mail or phone.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 11th, 2012 at 5:46 PM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
The Lotus Sutra (妙法蓮華經 , Kumarajiva translation) does not contain words like buddha-nature (佛性), or tathagatagarbha (如来藏), or self-nature (自性), or true suchness (真如). While the actual words "not void" (不空) does appear in chapter 25, it simply means "not in vain" and not the technical term non-empty.

The Prajnaparamita sutras describe the bodhisattva path and they were generally not accepted by sravakas. So what makes you think that they have anything to do with it?

In China it was Zhiyi of Tiantai who elevated the Lotus Sutra as the final teaching and added the NIrvana Sutra to that. However, he also heavily relied on the Mahaprajnaparamitaupadesha, a major work by Nagarjuna. And if you check his Threefold Truth (三諦), the central doctrine of Tiantai, it says that the Middle Way is "Phenomena are both empty of existence and exist provisionally at once", which agrees perfectly with what I have already said.

As for your emphasis on that the buddha-nature is not empty but everything else is empty, what does that mean? It means that it is not empty of the buddha qualities (powers, marks, wisdoms, etc.). In this then there is no difficulty, since the teaching of the three buddha bodies also cover this, but it's still not in disagreement with the other teachings. That's how the dharmakaya is empty and the rupakaya manifests everywhere. In prajnaparamita terms, if a bodhisattva masters one paramita, he has mastered them all. If one realises emptiness completely, the buddha qualities appear naturally. Neither the Lotus Sutra nor the Nirvana Sutra has any other path for bodhisattvas than the six paramitas, just as in the prajnaparamita sutras. So how could there be a disagreement?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 11th, 2012 at 6:47 AM
Title: Re: Master Seung Sahn's Enlightenment & Poem
Content:
mujushinkyo said:
I understand what you're saying, but it's not completely so. Layman Pang, for example, didn't take ordination or study Buddhist doctrines. I have studied sutras, treatises, commentaries and teachings, yet there is still the basic question : What is this?

Astus wrote:
Layman Pang was a literati, a very well educated person, just as less famous lay Zen followers in later times. As for the basic question, Seung Sahn's reply was always, "only don't know".


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 11th, 2012 at 6:16 AM
Title: Re: Master Seung Sahn's Enlightenment & Poem
Content:
Astus wrote:
Enlightenment by sound, a common Zen theme. But, the Shurangama Sutra's teaching on Avalokitesvara's method is not exactly the same. As for the Zen part, enlightenment by a sudden noise or other experience, it means the cutting of conceptual thinking while at the same time being aware. This is called enlightenment, an initial experience to allow oneself to do actual practice. Why is it then that while everyone has been startled now and then by a sound or other impressions, few has become enlightened? That's because they didn't know what to see. Now, you are trying to get a sense of some Zen story, but this is again just conceptual manipulation. If you want to conduct a proper analysis, you have to first study the teachings. And by teachings I don't mean Zen stories and lectures, but sutras, treatises, commentaries, and teachings about them. All Zen teachers were educated in Buddhist doctrines, as it is an essential part of the monastic training. Look at this from the Record of Linji (tr. Sasaki),

"Followers of the Way, he who is a renouncer of home must needs study the Way. Take me, for example—I started out devoting myself to the vinaya and also delved into the sutras and śāstras. Later, when I realized that they were only remedies to help the world and displays of opinion, I threw them all away, and, searching for the Way, I practiced meditation. Still later I met a great teacher. Then, indeed, my dharma-eye became clear and for the first time I was able to understand all the old teachers of the world and to tell the true from the false. It is not that I understood from the moment I was born of my mother, but that, after exhaustive investigation and grinding practice, in one instant I knew for myself."


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 11th, 2012 at 3:48 AM
Title: Re: Some Notes on Mahamudra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thanks for your notes. It's the first time I hear about Lama Phurbu Tashi but he is already sympathetic. I hope there will be more transcripts on their homepage in the future.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 11th, 2012 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: Defintion of Mahamudra according to CNR
Content:
Astus wrote:
The 3rd Karmapa was a master not only of Mahamudra but also Dzogchen and Kalachakra. Still, he says in the Single Word of Heart advice, "I swear there is not a more profound and ultimate instruction from all the holy and realized masters of the enlightened lineage that is more profound and more vital than this single word of my heart-advice."

Adeu Rinpoche (in Quintessential Dzogchen, p. 213) also finds correlation between the four yogas and the four visions as the gradual stages of training in the natural state of mind.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, June 10th, 2012 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Hi Jundo,

You teach as you please of course, and you are not alone in that kind of symbolic interpretation of the teachings. And not alone I mean among the contemporary teachers who grew up within a materialist culture. Naturally, that kind of teaching appeals to a certain audience. And as long as it brings people the decrease of unwholesome states and the increase of the wholesome ones, it is wonderful. What lies beyond that, the ending of afflictions and the awakening of bodhicitta, is another matter. What are your goals in teaching? Zen is said to be the sudden path to buddhahood. Is that what you teach?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 9th, 2012 at 7:56 PM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here I show how in the Lotus Sutra it is the realisation of emptiness, prajnaparamita, that is the true teaching of the Buddha and the path for the bodhisattvas, the single vehicle. I also show the difference between the attached view of emptiness of the sravakas and the complete view of the bodhisattvas. The difference lies in bodhicitta, the will to buddhahood to liberate all beings.

In chapter 2 of the Lotus Sutra those five thousand monks left because of their arrogance. In the next chapter Shariputra says,

"Formerly, I was attached to false views
And was a teacher of brahmans.
The Bhagavat, knowing my mind,
Removed the false views and taught nirvana.
I got rid of false views completely
And attained the teaching of emptiness.
At that time I considered myself
To have attained nirvana.
But now I have become aware
That this was not the real nirvana.
When I become a buddha
I shall be endowed with the thirty-two marks,
And be honored by devas, humans, yakṣas, and nāgas.
Only then can it be said that I have
Permanently attained nirvana without residue."

The first wrong view he had was the teaching of Hindus, the teaching of eternal self. That was removed by the teaching of emptiness of self. But attachment to emptiness is still wrong, and so he finally realised that the path of the bodhisattva is the one that leads to perfect enlightenment.

In chapter four we hear a similar statement from the elder disciples of the Buddha,

"Now we sit with weary bodies and only contemplate emptiness, signlessness, and wishlessness. Neither the bodhisattva teaching, nor the carefree sporting with transcendent powers, nor the pure buddha worlds, nor helping sentient beings attain enlightenment produced any eager desire in us."

What they did not have was bodhicitta. So, the essential difference between a sravaka and a bodhisattva is bodhicitta. And what is the difference in their paths? In chapter one the Lotus Sutra says,

"To those seeking for the śrāvaka vehicle he taught the Dharma with respect to the Four Noble Truths, causing them to overcome birth, old age, illness, and death and to attain nirvana. He taught the Dharma with respect to dependent origination to the pratyekabuddhas; and to the bodhisattvas he taught the Dharma with respect to the six perfections (pāramitās), causing them to attain highest, complete enlightenment and perfect all-knowledge (sarva jñātā)."

It is the four noble truths, dependent origination and the six paramitas that are the paths of the three vehicles. And the meaning of the one vehicle is made clear in the second chapter,

"Even though the buddhas of the future
Will teach hundreds of thousands of koṭis
Of innumerable paths to the Dharma,
Their teachings will actually be
For the sake of the single vehicle.
All the buddhas, the Best of Humans,
Know that all dharmas are ever without substance
And that the buddha-seeds germinate
Through dependent origination.
That is why they will teach the single vehicle.
Having realized on the terrace of enlightenment
That the state of the Dharma
Is permanent and unchangeable in this world,
The Leaders will teach with skillful means."

The dharmas are without substance, without essence, and the buddhas teach many methods (the three vehicles) to help beings realise this. That there is a difference between the limited view of emptiness of the sravakas and the complete view of Mahayana is shown in the twelfth chapter,

"Those who were originally śrāvakas explained the śrāvaka practices in the air; and now they all practice to understand the meaning of emptiness of the Mahayana."

This emptiness of the Mahayana is the single vehicle itself, stated in the same chapter,

"You have expounded the essential character of dharmas
And revealed the teaching of the single vehicle."

And that is what bodhisattvas practice, as said in the first chapter,

"There are also bodhisattvas
Who are teaching innumerable sentient beings
The Dharma of tranquility
In various ways.
Furthermore, I see bodhisattvas
Who have perceived the essential character
Of all dharmas (phenomena) to be without duality,
Just like empty space.
I also see heirs of the buddhas
Who are seeking the highest path
Through this subtle wisdom,
Their minds free of attachment."

And the instruction on this practice with clarification is given in the fourteenth chapter,

"Furthermore, the bodhisattva mahāsattvas perceive the emptiness of all dharmas in their true aspect. All things are unerring, unmoving, nonreturning, irreversible, and like empty space which lacks substance. They are beyond all language. They are not produced, nor do they emerge, nor do they arise. They do not have any name or mark, and in reality they have no substance. They are immeasurable, limitless, without obstacles or obstructions. They exist only through dependent origination, arising through error. That is why I teach the permanent joy of perceiving the aspects of all existent things in this way. This is what is known as the second sphere of relationships of a bodhisattva mahāsattva."

And again, to show that this realisation of emptiness is equal to the omniscience of the buddhas, chapter five shows how it is also the single vehicle,

"Just like the great cloud that rains upon all the grasses, trees, shrubs, and herbs, whose seeds are watered and which grow according to their capacities, the Tathāgata teaches the Dharma of one aspect and character; that is to say, the character of liberation, dispassion, and cessation which ultimately leads to omniscience.
...
It is just like the grasses, trees, shrubs, and herbs that do not know their own natures, whether they are superior, mediocre, or inferior. Yet the Tathāgata knows the teachings of one aspect and character, the character of liberation, dispassion, cessation, complete nirvana, and eternal tranquility which ultimately leads to emptiness."

With this understanding should the Lotus Sutra itself be taught, as the tenth chapter instructs,

"The Tathāgata’s chamber is nothing but the great compassion toward all sentient beings. The Tathāgata’s garments are the thoughts of gentleness and perseverance, and the Tathāgata’s seat is the very emptiness of all existing things."

This is a combination of compassion and emptiness, which is the true realisation of a bodhisattva and the buddhas. It is compassion itself that gives the primary difference between the sravakas and bodhisattvas. It is bodhicitta. So it is said by the Buddha in chapter fourteen,

"He should not acquire, comprehend,
Or perceive any phenomenon.
This is what is known
As the sphere of the
Bodhisattva practice.
All dharmas are empty and without substance,
Impermanent, without origination or cessation.
This is known as the sphere
Of the relationships of the wise.
Through the error of discrimination
One sees all existent things
As existing or nonexisting,
Real or unreal,
Produced or unproduced.
Being in a quiet place, the bodhisattva
Carries out practices to control his mind
And remains as firm and unmoved
As Mount Sumeru.
He should regard all dharmas
As being without substance,
Like empty space
Which has no firmness.
All dharmas are neither produced
Nor do they emerge;
They are immovable, nonreturning,
And always remain in their single character."


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 9th, 2012 at 6:39 PM
Title: Re: Defintion of Mahamudra according to CNR
Content:
Astus wrote:
Is this some fixed set of instructions? Even in the book Crystal Cave they follow each other.

I find that this short poem of the 16th Karmapa rhymes well with http://www.kagyu-asia.com/l_mila_t_illuminating_wisdom.html: http://www.kagyu-asia.com/t_heart_mahamudra.html


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 9th, 2012 at 5:09 PM
Title: Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?
Content:
Dechen Norbu said:
But if you feel desire, this is a form of attachment, Vajrayana or not.

Lucjan said:
Desire is not really a form of attachment, even though the former commonly results in the latter.  Desire is our playing field, the actual cause of our human dimension.  Attachment is our ignorant reaction to desire.  It is possible, and liberating, to experience desire devoid of attachment.

Astus wrote:
This is a nice argument actually, that there can be desire without attachment. What is desire without attachment? It means that desire appears, but one does not grasp it, so desire goes away. If there is no attachment to desire, there is no action that emerges from it, and that way the chain of the origination of suffering is cut. However, in order to have sex, one necessarily holds on to the desire and believes that it will result in happiness and satisfaction. It is a great example of distorted view and not applying the four noble truths.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 9th, 2012 at 5:47 AM
Title: Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?
Content:
Ikkyu said:
You make a good point. But in this case, is it OK for me to take precepts and tread the Buddhist path even if I have some serious doubts about it?

Astus wrote:
Absolutely. Doubts about the teachings remain until one has truly experienced the depths of the Dharma. It is a gradual process. One step at a time is perfectly enough. Just keep walking.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 9th, 2012 at 5:45 AM
Title: Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?
Content:
Ikkyu said:
Again, this whole "merit" business seems dubious at best. How does one "transfer" something immaterial that is probably non-existent -- and more likely a philosophical abstraction -- to someone else? How does this make sense in the context of reality, which Buddha-dharma claims to be so well acquainted with?

Rebirth is another thing that is paradoxical to the enth degree. If consciousness is destroyed upon the moment of death, as we know it is, how do some "aggregates" recreate it from non-existence? If there is no self that is reborn, then where does the consciousness/awareness come from? The concept of skandhas such as "mental formation" and "consciousness" being everlasting, transferable principles seems silly. We know why consciousness exists: it's called brain function. When the brain and the network of neurons in it die so does consciousness.

Astus wrote:
Merit transference sounds mystical, but really it isn't. It means that one recognises another's act and agrees with it, thus generating identical mental factors as if he had done it.

As for rebirth, the paradox you state is for this view that everything ends at the time of death. This extreme view in Buddhism is called annihilationism. As you also mentioned, there is no eternal self in the Buddha's teaching, and that is the other extreme view of eternalism. But Buddhism is not the same as materialism, it does not say that the mind is just some specific biological functions of the body. In fact, the existence of mind does not depend on the body. Thoughts are what generate further thoughts. We see, hear, smell, taste and feel based on the body's faculties, but what we see is identified by thoughts, and once one knows what one sees one has further thoughts about it based on that concept. You don't need any special education to understand this, just see it for yourself in your own experience. And since what at death stops functioning is only the body, the mind does not end with it. That's how there is rebirth eventually.

You see, if you want Buddhism to conform to the education you have received previously, you will struggle a lot with it, and either succeed in understanding the teaching of the Buddha or believe that it is nonsense and thus fail. Put aside your current opinions and look at Buddhism with fresh eyes and open mind. It is like learning a new language. If you start learning Japanese, but you want it to have the same grammatical structure as English, you will inevitably fail to comprehend the way the Japanese language works. So, as long as you want Buddhism to conform to your existing concepts, you are unable to actually see it for what it is.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 9th, 2012 at 4:46 AM
Title: Re: Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?
Content:
Huifeng said:
Though others would argue that sex itself involves some degree of craving for sensory experience, either a defiled or at least not a wholesome mental state.

Astus wrote:
Just to add a little more to this. Why people have sex? There can be a few reasons, sure, but the most common cause is the desire for sensual pleasure. Desire for sensual pleasure (kāmatṛṣṇā) is the very cause of birth in this realm of sensuality (kāmaloka) where we are now. This is true in all vehicles of Buddhism, just as dependent origination is true. Also, why people like to think that sex is not a hindrance to enlightenment? Because they are very much attached to it. Rhetoric excuses make no difference.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 9th, 2012 at 4:22 AM
Title: Re: How can Buddhists be so sure of themselves?
Content:
Anders said:
Then over time you begin to confirm the truths of all this through your own practise.This is the only proof Buddhism offers - finding out for yourself. If that's not working for you, Buddhism is probably not for you.

gregkavarnos said:
You mean I can't just pay somebody to practice for me and bring me the fruits of the practice?   Damn!

Astus wrote:
Actually, you can. It's called merit transference. Oh, and the payment for it is called donation.

As for the original question - although this has already been said - Buddhism is not about proving this or that, it is about relieving suffering. Taking and especially upholding the precepts is the first big step on the path to complete liberation from pain, sorrow and discontentment.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 9th, 2012 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: Anyone else bored to tears with this Dzogchen forum lately?
Content:
Simon E. said:
Actually many of them cant Astus. Not without breaking samaya.

Astus wrote:
And so we get to my first post here, that it is taboo.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 8th, 2012 at 11:20 PM
Title: Re: Anyone else bored to tears with this Dzogchen forum lately?
Content:
Simon E. said:
No...I am not just being contrary. Ideas about Dzogchen do not help at all...
All we can do is to point to our experiences. And risk being misunderstood.
Which means in my case my input into the forum will be self limited. You can only describe your own experiences so many times before they induce even in yourself a state of ennui.

Astus wrote:
Ideas about Dzogchen can't help? They are all the words ever uttered and written down. How could they be useless?

As for the risk of being misunderstood, everyone takes that risk all the time, whether here on the forum or in other communication forms. But, unlike in case of a video or book, people here can ask back.

It's not only your experience you can describe. There are teachings one has heard and studied but not yet mastered oneself. They can still be told to others, either by quote or link.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 8th, 2012 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: Kensho and Satori
Content:
Matylda said:
If we talk about general mahayana that can be true. What about zen? ''Method'' in Daikan's teaching is basically what could be easily misunderstood. He pointed it over and over again. Look again at his verse. It clears away all misconceptions.

Astus wrote:
I assume you mean this poem,

"Bodhi is fundamentally without any tree;
The bright mirror is also not a stand.
Fundamentally there is not a single thing—
Where could any dust be attracted?"

Now, here there is no method described, it is simply a statement that the nature is originally pure, therefore it doesn't have to be purified. That means the simplest method there is is to realise the nature of mind. The way to do that is what Huineng calls no-thought (Platform Sutra, ch. 4), that is, "to be without thought while in the midst of thought" and "the non-defilement of the mind in all states". And this is what I mentioned before.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 8th, 2012 at 7:52 PM
Title: Re: Anyone else bored to tears with this Dzogchen forum lately?
Content:
Simon E. said:
I dont think " taboo" is quite right Astus. It is simply not possible to do more than talk AROUND Dzogchen.

Astus wrote:
When you say "around Dzogchen", you must already have an idea what Dzogchen is. If you have no idea, then there is nothing to talk around either.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 8th, 2012 at 7:43 PM
Title: Re: Kensho and Satori
Content:
Matylda said:
wow, still no view is a view. if no view is considered one has to know also no-discipline, no-study, and no-practice. There is nothing wrong with dsp, as far as they help. Look at the famous verses in Tangyo, when the 6th patriarch Daikan Eno wrote in response to the head monk verse. Anyway Yuimakyo, or Vimalakirti nirdesha sutra is good source to have some idea about it. To point unconditioned and suppot it by conditioned is sort of illogical. But the final point is beyond all of these. Master Torei's teaching in his Discourse on the Inexhaustible Lamp is also helpful.

Astus wrote:
No view is a view if one fails to understand no view and makes it a view. Reification of emptiness is simply a wrong view.

That's what discipline, study and practice is for, to help. It is not illogical at all to follow "conditioned" methods (in fact, there are no other methods) in order to assist in reaching the unconditioned. Even when it is reduced to the simplest mindfulness practice, it is still a technique, just like Huineng's no-thought is a method.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 8th, 2012 at 7:18 PM
Title: Re: Anyone else bored to tears with this Dzogchen forum lately?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think that as long as it is taboo to talk about Dzogchen itself, all there is to talk about is X related to (whatever meaning you attribute to) Dzogchen.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 8th, 2012 at 7:10 PM
Title: Re: Kensho and Satori
Content:
Matylda said:
Self understanding is pretty misleading in zen, specially when it comes to satori or kensho.

Astus wrote:
Just a small note: any kind of understanding is misleading. If it's my view, or another's view, they are still a view. The correct view therefore is no view. How to be free from views? Discipline, study, practice.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 8th, 2012 at 5:59 PM
Title: Re: Kensho and Satori
Content:
Matylda said:
Yes it is amazing if we can take a perspective since we are not used to it in daily events, but that has nothing to do with satori...

Astus wrote:
Let's say that it's a start, to see that like and dislike are created by the mind. Identifying a neutral, non-interested state as satori is limited, sure. What the nature of mind is does not depend on different states of mind and it is present regardless of them. Whether something looks beautiful, ugly or uninteresting, these are just emotional states. Awareness itself is found in each of them, but it's not the same as any of them. Not abiding, not grasping, not identifying with any of them is being free. Clinging to neutrality therefore is mistaken.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 8th, 2012 at 7:16 AM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Son of Buddha said:
yea the jivitaka principle itself(spelled that wrong I think simple meaning is life force)
you dont need the 5 aggregates or 6 tainted faculties to exist.I wouldnt say it is BEYOND those things but their is life in the formless realms which doesn't contain,sight,smell,touch,hearing,the only thing present is awareness of existance(like being in darkness)to me its a scary place to exist in.

this shows that you dont need the 5 aggregates to exists.next what is beyond it is the rupa/dharmakaya of the Buddha chapter 5 on the Adamantine Body this is what is BEYOND our 5 aggregate.

Astus wrote:
Identifying buddha-nature with the life force (jīvitendriya or simply jīva) is a strange idea, since believing that the life force is the self is among the four mistaken identification as you can read in the Diamond Sutra (jīvagrāha) and others. It is still part of samsara, and a common mistaken view of Hindus ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiva ).

As for the formless realms, four of the five aggregates are only mental, and they are present there. What in chapter five the Buddha says regarding the aggregates and faculties is, "He is no skandha, sphere or realm, and yet he is the skandha, sphere, and realm." What can we make of this?

Nagarjuna says (Mulamadhyamakakarika, tr. from "Ocean of Reasoning"):

"If the aggregates were the self,
It would have to arise and cease.
If it were different from the aggregates,
It would not have the characteristics of the aggregates."
(18.1)

So, if the self is same as the aggregates, that means the self is impermanent. How could then it be truly a self? But, if it is different from the aggregates, such a self would have no ability to sense, perceive, comprehend or experience anything at all. Certainly such a self would be useless and meaningless. So in the same chapter we also find this:

"The Buddhas have designated a self;
And have taught that there is no self;
And also have taught that
There is neither self nor selflessness."

So, as we know from the Nirvana Sutra too, there is the self-view of ordinary people, the teaching of selflessness of the sravakas, and the teaching of true self of the buddha-nature. And that true self is neither the self or ordinary people nor the selflessness of sravakas. What is the true self then? Nagarjuna also says there:

"Through the elimination of karma and affliction there is nirvana.
Karma and affliction come from conceptual thought.
These come from mental fabrication.
Fabrication ceases through emptiness."

The chapter on the Adamantine Body sums up succinctly, saying: "We cannot express." and also "It is the All-Wonderful, the one Eternal, and the one not presumable." This one the Samdhinirmocana Sutra (ch. 2, tr. Keenan) explains clearly:

"Good son, the term 'conditioned' is a provisional word invented by the First Teacher. Now, if it is a provisional word invented by the First Teacher, then it is a verbal expression apprehended by imagination. And if it is a verbal expression apprehended by imagination, then, in the final analysis, such an imagined description does not validate a real thing. Therefore, the conditioned does not exist. Good son, the term 'unconditioned' is also invented from language [and it also validates nothing real]. 
"Furthermore, besides the conditioned and the unconditioned, any other expression that exists in language is the same. But, it might be objected, is it not true that there are no expressions without some [corresponding] reality? What, then, is the reality here? I would reply that it is that reality apart from language and realized in the perfect awakening of the saints through their holy wisdom and insight apart from all names and words. It is because they desire to lead others to realize perfect awakening that they provisionally establish [such expressions] as 'the conditioned' as verbal descriptions. 
"Good son, the term 'unconditioned' is also a word provisionally invented by the First Teacher. Now, if the First Teacher provisionally invented this word, then it is a verbal expression apprehended by imagination. And, if it is a verbal expression apprehended by imagination, then, in the final analysis, such an imagined description does not validate a real thing. Therefore, the unconditioned does not exist. Good son, the term 'conditioned' is also invented from language [and it validates nothing real].
"Besides 'the unconditioned' and 'the conditioned,' any other expression that exists in language is the same. But [some may object], is it not true that there are no expressions without some [corresponding] reality? What then is that reality here? I would reply that it is that reality apart from language and realized in the perfect awakening of the saints through their wisdom and insight apart from all names and words. It is because they desire to lead others to realize perfect awakening that they establish [such expressions] as 'the unconditioned' as verbal descriptions."

Thus both self and selflessness are verbal fabrications, nothing more. True Self is beyond language constructs, it is the very understanding that everything there is is simply conceptual imagination.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 7th, 2012 at 3:39 PM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
So, let's look at that definition then, if you say it covers all there is to cover.

Unknown said:
"“O good man! The Buddha-Nature is none other than the All-Void of “Paramartha-satya” [Ultimate Truth]. The All-Void of “Paramartha-satya” is Wisdom. We say "All-Void". This does not refer to no Void [any Voidness], nor non-Void. Knowledge [“jnana”] sees the Void and the non-Void, the Eternal and the non-Eternal, Suffering and Bliss, the Self and the non-Self. The Void refers to all births and deaths. The Non-Void refers to Great Nirvana. And the non-Self is nothing but birth and death. The Self refers to Great Nirvana.
"If one sees the All-Void, but does not see the non-Void, we do not speak of this as the Middle Path. Or if one sees the non-Self of all things, but does not see the Self, we do not call this the Middle Path.
"The Middle Path is the Buddha-Nature. For this reason, the Buddha-Nature is Eternal and there is no change. As ignorance overspreads [them], all beings are unable to see. The sravaka and pratyekabuddha see the All-Void of all things. But they do not see the non-Void. Or they see the non-Self of all things, but they do not see the Self. Because of this, they are unable to gain the All-Void of “Paramartha-satya”. Since they fail to gain the All-Void of “Paramartha-satya”, they fail to enact the Middle Path. Since there is no Middle Path, there is no seeing of the Buddha-Nature."
"O good man! There are three seeings of the Middle Path [i.e. constituting the Middle Path]. The one is the definitely blissful action; the second is the definitely sorrowful action; the third is the sorrow-bliss action.

Astus wrote:
Summing it up:
All-Void is the Void of all things, the non-Self of all things AND the non-Void of Buddha-Nature, the Self of Buddha-Nature.

So, there are all things, the five aggregates and the six faculties, and they are selfless, empty. And there is buddha-nature which is Self, non-Void. But, if we look at ourselves, our present experience, what else is there beyond the five aggregates and six faculties? And I mean right now. Can you point at it?
My take on this is that since there can't be anything else besides all things (five aggregates, six faculties), buddha-nature is actually the non-attachment to things, just as in Yogacara's three nature teaching. And that non-attachment is the basic nature, the eternal self, which is equivalent to emptiness. But, if you say this is not so, please explain what then is buddha-nature outside of all things.

The http://www.fodian.net/world/1666.htm says,

1. Truly Empty

Suchness is empty because from the beginning it has never been related to any defiled states of existence, it is free from all marks of individual distinction of things, and it has nothing to do with thoughts conceived by a deluded mind. It should be understood that the essential nature of Suchness is neither with marks nor without marks; neither not with marks nor not without marks; nor is it both with and without marks simultaneously; it is neither with a single mark nor with different marks; neither not with a single mark nor not with different marks; nor is it both with a single and with different marks simultaneously. In short, since all unenlightened men discriminate with their deluded minds from moment to moment, they are alienated from Suchness; hence, the definition "empty"; but once they are free from their deluded minds, they will find that there is nothing to be negated.

2. Truly Nonempty

Since it has been made clear that the essence of all things is empty, i.e., devoid of illusions, the true Mind is eternal, permanent, immutable, pure, and self-sufficient; therefore, it is called "nonempty." And also there is no trace of particular marks to be noted in it, as it is the sphere that transcends thoughts and is in harmony with enlightenment alone.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 7th, 2012 at 3:18 AM
Title: Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen
Content:
shel said:
No one said it was strange. In fact I've suggested that it's common.

Astus wrote:
So, what I said that it is in agreement with a style. If by common you mean that there are Zen teachers who talk ill of the Mahayana sutras, that is not a usual practice at all, and never was. It's equivalent of slandering the Dharma. The result of this is that his followers will not study the teachings and so fail to understand it. The idea that "Buddha was only human" - what is called "secular Buddhism" - is failing to understand the complexity and the meaning of Mahayana teachings about buddhahood. But, considering the audience, this sentiment is what they probably like to hear from their teacher. Also, the whole Dogen Sangha seems to be like this.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 7th, 2012 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: Baloney! and Jundo Cohen
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't see anything strange about this. He is in agreement with the classic Zen style of iconoclasm, of internalisation and pointing to the mind as the only real buddha.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 6th, 2012 at 6:20 PM
Title: Re: Wish List - Real Dharma Free for All
Content:
Astus wrote:
Great ideas, although little to do with this forum. You should perhaps find someone with the necessary programming skills to create the structure, then upload and maintain all the data.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 6th, 2012 at 3:49 PM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
As I see it, the Nirvana Sutra uses the word "Void" in different contexts with different meanings. Just as you said, there is a list for 11 kinds, but there can be more depending on context. But let's take a different turn on this. Can you give a definition of buddha-nature? In everyday terms possibly. Then we can match it with whatever meaning of emptiness, or we can't.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 6th, 2012 at 2:58 PM
Title: Re: Do Theravadins have anything similar to Dzogchen?
Content:
Anders said:
An open-minded Theravadin studying descriptions of trekcho would probably equate it with the opening of the Dhamma Eye experienced by stream-entrants. At least those whose depictions of Nirvana are similar such as much of the thai forest tradition and such.

Astus wrote:
That's what I was talking about when connecting self-liberation with the rise and fall of dhamma. I guess I did it poorly.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 6th, 2012 at 4:57 AM
Title: Re: The Great Cloud Mountain Temple Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Your consciousness presents Awareness to Itself energetically as sensory reality."

Is there consciousness and Awareness? What is presenting energetically?

"Is there a reason for this happening? No, there is no “reason.""

Do you mean that things just appear without cause?

"How could things exist without concepts such as time and space, self and other..."

Are you proposing that there is an order of concepts from fundamental to advanced?

"Because there are illusory things there seems to be Karma"

So first there are illusory things, then there is karma? Are they separate, or hierarchical? What about karma causing illusory things?

"By regaining original mind in a flash"

How exactly? And why does it dissolve things and karma?

"all things appear as no-things"

What is the difference?

"To live more or less constantly in this Non Abiding No-State (Mu Ju Shin) is the goal of Zen."

More or less constantly? Either it is constant or not. Why more or less?

"The direct way to Great Enlightenment is via letting go of names and forms for intense, sometimes rapturous but always inexplicable physical sensations."

What does this enlighten one about? Getting intense and rapturous sensations without any sense, sounds more like some drug induced state. And if all is Awareness, why is the emphasis on physical?

"Do some Zen!"

What is doing Zen?

"Great Enlightenment cannot be experienced -- it is the direct way of experiencing."

Aren't all experiences direct? If it is not immediate, it is not an experience, is it?

"This headless Zen way is purely physical (mystical)"

Do you mean that out of the six sensory faculties one is lost?

"Doing Zen makes talk and writing seem crazy and superfluous."

Then it is stupid Zen. Nobody should do such a thing.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 6th, 2012 at 3:35 AM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Malcolm,

I find that last section part quite in line with the eternalist idea, even if it is something added later. I don't see that in East Asia they had a problem with this. In fact, although this did not really exist in India, the whole East Asian branch - or rather as it evolved - can be called tathagatagarbha-vada. They had no Hindus around to debate on the atman-anatman issue, so names like the True Self is still alive, and the four attributes of buddha-nature as stated in the Nirvana Sutra is taught.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 6th, 2012 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Malcolm,

I'm not doubting Hodge's expertise at all. However, the quotes I collected are from different parts of the sutra. In fact, at the final part it has explanations on the differentiation between what is void and what is non-void. Also, the Nirvana Sutra played an important role in Tiantai and to some extent in Chan. Neither of them had problem matching it with the teachings of Prajnaparamita and Mind Only. As for those who specialised in the Nirvana Sutra before Tiantai, I don't know about them.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 5th, 2012 at 11:55 PM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Son of Buddha said:
emptiness isnt considered dharmadhatu  in tathagatagarbha,(the nirvana sutra/Lotus sutra) states it was teachings to help one end tainted individual self(false self) not the actual goal.

Astus wrote:
Consider these passages from the Nirvana Sutra. Page number is according to the common PDF edition.

"The Truth is the Tathagata. The Tathagata is the True; the True is the Void; the Void is the True; the True is the Buddha-Nature; the Buddha-Nature is the True."
(p. 159)

"O good man! All that is made is not eternal. The Void is not anything made. So, it is eternal. The Buddha-Nature is not what is made. So, it is eternal. "The Void is the Buddha-Nature; the Buddha-Nature is the Tathagata; the Tathagata is not what has been made. What has not been made is Eternal."
(p. 162)

"How does the Bodhisattva meditate on the Void of nature ["prakrti-shunyata" - Emptiness of primordial matter]? This Bodhisattva-mahasattva sees that the original nature of all elements is all void. These are the five skandhas, the 18 realms, the 12 spheres, the Eternal, the non-Eternal, suffering, Bliss, the Pure, the impure, Self, and non-Self. In all such things, he sees no nature of their own. This is how the Bodhisattva-mahasattva meditates on the Void of nature."
(p. 194)

"When the Bodhisattva-mahasattva practises Great Nirvana, he knows and sees the universe and he realises that the real state is all-void and that there is nothing that one possesses, and that there is nothing that has any mode of harmonisation or perception. And what he gains is such a phase [state of realisation] as the unleakable [i.e. undefiled], non-doing, the phantomic, the burning flame of the hot season, and the all-empty phase of a gandharvan castle."
(p. 257)

"He practises "Paramartha-satya" [Ultimate Reality] and the Ultimate Void. Why? Because all Bodhisattvas always thoroughly practise the natures and characteristics of the Void. By practising the Void, he can now know what he did not know in the past. What does he know? He knows that there is no self and what one possesses. All beings have the Buddha-Nature. He knows that by reason of the Buddha-Nature, even the icchantika, when he abandons the mind that he possesses, can indeed attain unsurpassed Enlightenment. Such is not what sravakas and pratyekabuddhas can know."
(p. 282)

"Now, hearing Dharma relates to the 11 shunyatas. Due to these voids, we see no form in anything. Now, hearing Dharma begins with the first aspiration and proceeds up to the ultimate unsurpassed Bodhi Mind. By gaining the first aspiration, one gains Great Nirvana. Through hearing, one does not gain Great Nirvana; by practising, one attains Great Nirvana."
(p. 293)

"What is the True? One knows well the phases of Nirvana, the Buddha-Nature, the Tathagata, Dharma, the priest, the Real State, and the Void. This is what is True."
(p. 296)

"The Buddha-Nature is none other than the All-Void of "Paramartha-satya" [Ultimate Truth]. The All-Void of "Paramartha-satya" is Wisdom. We say "All-Void"."
(p. 318)

"The Middle Path is the Buddha-Nature. For this reason, the Buddha-Nature is Eternal and there is no change. As ignorance overspreads [them], all beings are unable to see. The sravaka and pratyekabuddha see the All-Void of all things. But they do not see the non-Void. Or they see the non-Self of all things, but they do not see the Self. Because of this, they are unable to gain the All-Void of "Paramartha-satya". Since they fail to gain the All-Void of "Paramartha-satya", they fail to enact the Middle Path. Since there is no Middle Path, there is no seeing of the Buddha- Nature."
(p. 319)

"The samadhi resultant from right thinking is right meditation. One abiding in right meditation sees all things as Void. This is right Wisdom. One perfect in right Wisdom segregates his self from all the bonds of defilement. This is Emancipation. "The person who has gained Emancipation praises it to all beings and says that this Emancipation is Eternal and Unchanging. This is the correct praising of Emancipation. This is unsurpassed Mahaparinirvana."
(p. 327)

"The Buddha-Nature of beings is not-one and not-two. The equality spoken of regarding all Buddhas is like the Void. All beings possess it. Anybody who indeed practises the Noble Eightfold Path gains - one should know - a bright view."
(p. 352)

"The Eternal of the Tathagata is the Self. The Dharmakaya "[Dharma-Body]" of the Tathagata is unboundedness, unobstructedness, birthlessness, undyingness, and the eight unmolestednesses. This is the Self. The beings, truth to tell, do not have such a Self and what the Self possesses. Only because of the fact that a person absolutely attains the absoute Void of "Paramartha-satya" do we say the Buddha-Nature."
(p. 389)

"The Buddha-Nature of the being is like the Void. The Void is not past, not future, and not present. it is not in, nor out; it is not within the boundaries of colour, sound, taste, and touch. It is the same with the Buddha-Nature."
(p. 414)

"If there is nothing, this is the Void. The same is the case with the Buddha-Nature, too. O good man! As the Void is empty, it does not fall into the category of the Three Times. As the Buddha-Nature is Eternal, it is not within the category of the Three Times."
(p. 440)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 5th, 2012 at 10:38 PM
Title: Re: Do Theravadins have anything similar to Dzogchen?
Content:
Jnana said:
Well, the Thai forest lineage is a bit more diverse and idiosyncratic with regard to view. But the purpose of insight meditation here too (for a yogi following the śrāvaka path of liberation) is to recognize impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and selflessness, and thereby induce dispassion and the cessation of the fetters.

Astus wrote:
Well, OK then. Classic Theravada is unlike Dzogchen. Thanks for the correction.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 5th, 2012 at 10:15 PM
Title: Re: Do Theravadins have anything similar to Dzogchen?
Content:
Jnana said:
Right, what the classical Theravāda & Sarvāstivāda consider to be ultimates (mind, mental factors, and matter) are not considered ultimates from a Madhyamaka perspective. They are merely conceptually designated and the basis of these designations are mere appearances.

Astus wrote:
I know they have a different view of paramattha dhamma, and so there is difference. Although I find that since mind, mental factors and matter are conditioned even in Theravada, it agrees somewhat with Madhyamaka. But OK, if it goes down to practice in the way you just pointed out that one has to create these cognitions about the specific dhamma and their impermanence, etc., it does not match Dzogchen, and I have misinterpreted what Mahasi says.
What is left then is the lineage of Ajahn Mun where they don't apply abhidhamma but a different way. What do you say of that?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 5th, 2012 at 9:13 PM
Title: Re: Do Theravadins have anything similar to Dzogchen?
Content:
Jnana said:
A Theravāda yogi observes the rise and fall of mind and matter. Through this observation s/he recognizes the universal characteristics (sāmāṅyalakṣaṇa) of impermanence, etc., which are common to all conditioned phenomena.

A Madhyamaka yogi removes the vikalpas of "mind" and "matter" and observes unestablished suchness. Here, all phenomena are unestablished (sarvadharmāpratiṣṭhāna), and there are no "things" to observe, neither the unique particulars (svalakṣaṇa) of objects nor the universals such as impermanence, etc.

This latter Madhyamaka insight is axiomatic for chan, chagchen, and dzogchen.

Astus wrote:
Do you mean that in case of Theravada concepts remain, and the yogi identifies those concepts as the ultimate reality? Don't they realise suchness?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 5th, 2012 at 9:11 PM
Title: Re: Do Theravadins have anything similar to Dzogchen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
OK, I can be wrong about Mahasi Sayadaw's vipassana, although it seems to me that since he talks about immediately noting whatever arises, it's not the same kind of mental noting as when one actually says the word in one's head. IIRC, in another book he explained that such pronounced noting is eventually dropped, which makes sense to me. If needed, I can try to find that work, but can't remember the title now. He follows the description of the Visuddhimagga about the steps of vipassana, so I assume he is a proper representative of traditional Theravada.

Jnana said:
What the classical theras consider to be non-conceptual is still considered conceptual for mādhyamikas, and hence, for dzogchen as well.

Astus wrote:
Do you say that because they use the term dharmas appearing and disappearing?

"As this extract from Mælukyaputta Sutta shows, the mere sight, the mere sound, the mere sense, the mere idea is there. Recall them and only the real nature you have understood will appear. No graspings. The meditator who meditates on what ever arises as it arises sees how everything arises and passes away, and it becomes clear to him how everything is impermanent, suffering, not self."

How is this different from the simple coming and going of phenomena as given in Madhyamaka, Chan or Vajrayana?

Anders said:
There is nothing to note there nor anything to meditate upon.

Astus wrote:
What is it then here where there is just being aware of experience immediately?

Anders said:
And 'theory' does impact method. to a certain extent. Mahasi Sadyaw works within a framework of freeing oneself from affliction. In the aforementioned ones, there is nothing to attain and Klesha and Bodhi are considered nondual. These kind of assumptions (or lack of same) embedded into the method ('theory') are quite relevant in terms of contrivance and effort. This is how sudden Chan distinguishes itself from gradual practise and how Dzogchen and Mahamudra distinguishes itself from the lower vehicles.

Astus wrote:
Oh, I don't mean to say that they are totally the same. Obviously they are not. However, my point is that, like in this case Mahasi's method, while goes through several steps, which makes it a gradual instruction, the most advanced method in it matches Chan and Dzogchen. This is similar to the relationship between Tiantai and Chan, or Madhyamaka and Mahamudra.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 5th, 2012 at 6:30 PM
Title: Re: Do Theravadins have anything similar to Dzogchen?
Content:
Jnana said:
I think it's prudent to acknowledge specifics. With the Theravāda & Sarvāstivāda śrāvakamārga, experience is reducible to momentary minds, mental factors, and forms, all of which are to be recognized as impermanent, unsatisfactory, and selfless. The purpose of these recognitions is to sequentially terminate the ten fetters and attain liberation.

With the dzogchen rang grol lam, experience is reducible to rigpa and the display of rigpa, which is to be recognized as alpha pure and spontaneously perfect. Thus whatever arises is naturally liberated without being established or recognized as "this" or "that" phenomenon, and there's nothing whatsoever to accept or reject.

Astus wrote:
What you describe is difference in theory, in explanation of what goes on. Insight into the three attributes is non-conceptual even in Theravada, and that is when they are the three doors of liberation. That's why I see little difference in practice.

From Mahasi Sayadaw's (quoting from him since he relies more on classical works than Ajahn Mun's lineage) "Fundamentals of Vipassana Meditation" ( http://www.mahasi.org.mm/e_pdf/E09pdf.PDF ):

"But the present phenomenon is what comes up at the six doors right now. It has not yet been defiled. It is like an unsoiled piece of cloth or paper. If you are quick enough to meditate on it just as it comes up, it will not be defiled. You fail to note it and it get defiled. Once defiled, it cannot be undefiled. If you fail to note the mind-and matter as it rises, grasping intervenes."

"If you meditate, you find that what you see passes away, what you hear passes away. They pass away in no time at all. Once you see them as they really are, there is nothing to love, nothing to hate, nothing to cling to. If there is nothing to cling to, there can be no clinging or grasping."

"When one is well-practised in insight meditation, after the arising of life-continuum following the seeing process, insight consciousness that reviews “seeing” takes place. You must try to be able to thus meditate immediately. If you are able to do so, it appears in your intellect as though you were meditating on things as they are seen, as they just arise. This kind of meditation is termed in the Suttas as “meditation on the present.”"

"If you fail to meditate even at the apprehending, you get to form process and name process. Then graspings come in. If you meditate after the emergence of grasping, they will not disappear. That is why we instruct you to meditate immediately, before the concepts arise."

"You note it the moment it arises. You note it and it ends right there. Sometimes as wandering of the mind is about to arise. You note it and it quiets down."

"So, if you note the moment you see, hear, touch, or perceive, no subsequent consciousness will arise to bring about graspings.
“ ......... you will simply have the sight of the things seen, the sound of the things hears, the sense of the things sensed, and the idea of the thing cognized.”
As this extract from Mælukyaputta Sutta shows, the mere sight, the mere sound, the mere sense, the mere idea is there. Recall them and only the real nature you have understood will appear. No graspings. The meditator who meditates on what ever arises as it arises sees how everything arises and passes away, and it becomes clear to him how everything is impermanent, suffering, not self. He knows this for himself- not because a teacher has explained it to him. This only is the real knowledge."


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 5th, 2012 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: Do Theravadins have anything similar to Dzogchen?
Content:
Lhug-Pa said:
Does anyone know which Sutra I'm referring to here?

Astus wrote:
Perhaps these suttas: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an01/an01.049.than.html


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 5th, 2012 at 2:32 AM
Title: Re: The Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Spirituality said:
That was way more than necessary, but clear, at least in this translation. You're right:  in this translation this sutra does teach Buddha is eternal and is, as such, hard to reconcile with traditional Buddhism.

I'd love to hear what someone with access to the original language who knows something of the Buddhist history of ideas has to say about this text.

Astus wrote:
Reconcile with which traditional Buddhism? Do you mean Theravada? Just because Mahayana seemingly has many teachings not in accord with Theravada. Otherwise, however, the Nirvana Sutra is a basis of traditional Buddhism, at least in East Asia. The Buddha is eternal. But this eternity is the unborn nature of all, it is the dharmadhatu. In other words, emptiness.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 5th, 2012 at 2:25 AM
Title: Re: Do Theravadins have anything similar to Dzogchen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
What I talk about is the practical side of both Theravada and Dzogchen (or any other vehicle for that matter). There are lot of theories about stages of progress, small and big future goals, and so on. However, when it comes down to the essential wisdom to be realised and practised, it's the same all over. This is prajnaparamita, to use a common Mahayana expression. The mind people have works in the same way, either there is attachment or there isn't, either it is the conditioned or the unconditioned. There is a large variety in conditioned phenomena, but the unconditioned is equal everywhere and for everyone. Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana all aim for realising the unconditioned and functioning from the unconditioned.

In terms of meditation, this is seeing that thoughts come and go. When grasped, thoughts proliferate. When left alone, they are unhindered. In this there is no difference whether it's Theravada, Mahayana or Vajrayana. It is just how mind works.

And as an extra, here's a nice teaching from Manjusri,

The Elder Subhuti asked Manjusri, "Do you not explain the Dharma of the Sravaka-vehicle to the Sravakas?"
"I follow the Dharmas of all the vehicles."
Subhuti asked, "Are you a Sravaka, a Pratyekabuddha, or a Worthy One, a Supremely Enlightened ONe?"
"I am a Sravaka, but my understanding does not come through the speech of others. I am a Pratyekabuddha, but I do not abandon great compassion or fear anything. I am a Worthy One, a Supremely Enlightened ONe, but I still do not give up my original vows."
Subhuti asked, "Why are you a Sravaka?"
"Because I cause sentient beings to hear the Dharma they have not heard."
"Why are you a Pratyekabuddha?"
"Because I thoroughly comprehend the dependent origination of all dharmas."
"Why are you a Worthy One, a Supremely Enlightened One?"
"Because I realize that all things are equal in the dharmadhatu."
Subhuti asked, "Manjusri, in what stage do you really abide?"
"I abide in every stage."
Subhuti asked, "Could it be that you also abide in the stage of ordinary people?"
Manjusri said, "I definitely abide in the stage or ordinary people."
Subhuti asked, "With what esoteric implication do you say so?"
"I say so because all dharmas are equal by nature."
Subhuti asked, "If all dharmas are equal, where are such dharmas as the stages of Sravakas, Pratyekabuddhas, Bodhisattvas, and Buddhas established?"
Manjusri answered, "As an illustration, consider the empty space in the ten directions. People speak of the eastern space, the southern space, the western space, the northern space, the four intermediate spaces, the space above, the space below, and so forth. Such distinctions are spoken of, although the empty space itself is devoid of distinctions. In like manner, virtuous one, the various stages are established in the ultimate emptiness of all things, although the emptiness itself is devoid of distinctions."
(The Inconceivable State of Buddhahood in "A Treasury of Mahayana Sutras", p. 30-31)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 5th, 2012 at 12:26 AM
Title: Re: Do Theravadins have anything similar to Dzogchen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Anders,

I just meant that the presence of the bodhisattva path is not really relevant in this case in my opinion.

Here's one from Ajahn Sumedho,

"That’s when you hear the sound of silence, because your mind is just in that state of attention; in pure awareness there’s no self, it’s like this. Then to learn to relax into that, to trust it, but not to try and hold onto it. We can’t even grasp the idea of that — “I’ve got to get the sound of silence and I’ve got to relax into it”. This is the dodgy part of any kind of technique or instruction, because it is easy to grasp the idea. Bhàvanà (meditation or cultivation) isn’t grasping ideas or coming from any position, but in this pañipadà, this practice, it’s recognising and realising through awakened awareness, through a direct knowing."
(Intuitive Awareness, p. 104 - http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/intuitive-awareness.pdf )


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 5th, 2012 at 12:02 AM
Title: Re: Do Theravadins have anything similar to Dzogchen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Anders and Jnana,

How does that question relate to Dzogchen where the three bodies are immediately perfect in the nature of mind, and buddhahood is attained without effort? Not much discussion of any arduous bodhisattva path where everything is already perfect.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 4th, 2012 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Do Theravadins have anything similar to Dzogchen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
From a practical point of view, insight into impermanence, the rise and fall of phenomena, is the same as self-liberation. Realising that the nature of mind is empty matches the insight into selflessness.
But, in theory, Dzogchen is very far from Theravada.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, June 3rd, 2012 at 9:43 PM
Title: Re: 84,000 illnesses of the mind
Content:
Astus wrote:
The number "84,000" is only a figure of speech in Buddhism and it simply means many. As for the "illnesses of the mind" you can find the different abhidharma works that list the unwholesome dharmas, and another popular source in East Asian Buddhism is the Surangama Sutra's fifty skandha demons.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 2nd, 2012 at 8:58 PM
Title: Re: Buddha on Romantic Relationships - Personal Empirical Observ
Content:
Astus wrote:
This is in the "Personal experience" section because the initial question is about one's personal experience regarding relationship and Buddhism. Impersonal theories can go to other threads. Thank you.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 1st, 2012 at 11:46 PM
Title: Re: Right Effort - How Is It Understood in Zen?
Content:
greentreee said:
hi,

i'm just curious as to the origination of the eightfold path.  ie; textual references etc.

Astus wrote:
Not specifically a Zen related question, but here it is, the very first teaching of the Buddha in the early scriptures (Zen follows the East Asian view that the first teaching of the Buddha was the Avatamsaka Sutra): http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.than.html


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 1st, 2012 at 6:27 AM
Title: Re: Right Effort - How Is It Understood in Zen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
In "Sanjuushichihon bodai bunpou" (Thirty-seven Elements of Bodhi) Dogen does give some explanation for right effort. Here it is quoted from the Nishijima translation.

SBGZ 60 [SZTP] /70 [Shasta] /73 [Nishijima] said:
The Four Kinds of Right Restraint (Also called the four kinds of right exertion)

The first is to prevent bad that has not yet occurred.
The second is to cause to be extinguished bad that has already occurred.
The third is to cause to occur good that has not yet occurred.
The fourth is to promote the good that has already occurred.

“To prevent bad that has not yet occurred”: What is called bad does not always have established forms and grades; the term has been established land by land and sphere by sphere. Nevertheless, prevention of that which has not yet occurred is called the Buddha-Dharma, and we have received its authentic transmission. They say that in the understanding of non-Buddhists the prime val self is seen as fundamental, but in the Buddha-Dharma we should not be like that. Now, let us inquire, at the time when “bad has not yet occurred,” where is it? To say that it will exist in the future is to be forever a non-Buddhist of nihilism. To say that the future becomes the present is not an insistence of the Buddha-Dharma: the three times would have to be confused. If the three times were confused, all dharmas would be confused. If all dharmas were confused, real form would be confused. If real form were confused, buddhas alone, together with buddhas, would be confused. For this reason, we do not say that the future will, in future, become the present. Let us inquire further: what thing does “bad that has not yet occurred” describe? Who has known it or seen it? For it to be known and seen, there must be a time of its nonoccurrence and a time of something other than its nonoccurrence. In that case, it could not be called something that had not yet occurred. It would have to be called something that has already vanished. Without studying under non-Buddhists or śrāvakas and others of the Small Vehicle, we should learn in practice “the prevention of bad that has not yet occurred.” All the bad in the universe is called “bad that has not yet occurred,” and it is bad that does not appear. Nonappearance means “yesterday preaching an established rule, today preaching an exception to the rule.”
“To cause to be extinguished bad that has already occurred”: “Already occurring” means totally happening. Totally happening means half-happening. Half-hap pening means what is happening here and now. What is happening here and now is obstructed by happening itself; it has sprung free from the brains of happening. Causing this [bad] to be extinguished describes Devadatta’s living body entering hell, and Devadatta’s living body attaining affirmation; it describes a living body entering a donkey’s womb, and a living body becom ing buddha.31 Grasping this principle, we should learn in practice what “caus ing extinction” means. Extinction means springing free from extinction and getting clear of it.
“To cause to occur good that has not yet occurred” is satisfaction with the features we had before our parents were born, is clarification prior to the sprouting of creation, and is understanding preceding Majestic Sound.
“To promote the good that has already occurred”: Remember, this does not speak of causing to occur the good that has already occurred; it is about pro moting [good]. It is [the Buddha], having seen for himself the bright star, going on to make others see the bright star; it is eyes becoming the bright star; it is “confusion being followed by thirty years of not lacking for salt and vinegar.” For example: because we are promoting [good], [good] is already happening, and so “the ravine being deep, the dipper’s handle is long,” and “only because we had it did he come.”


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 31st, 2012 at 8:08 PM
Title: Re: name change
Content:
Astus wrote:
Contact an admin.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 31st, 2012 at 8:07 PM
Title: Re: Right Effort - How Is It Understood in Zen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
First of all, in Mahayana the eightfold path is generally forgotten, and usually reduced to the threefold training of morality, meditation and wisdom. In stead, there are the six paramitas, what has the virya paramita (paramita of vigour/effort/diligence). And then if we go to Chan, such gradual and detailed practices are mostly left behind and focus is on realising the buddha-mind, and that is mostly equivalent to prajna paramita. So we arrive to Dogen - who is, however, not the only source of Soto Zen - who transforms Zen into shikantaza, just sitting, and in that the primary thing is non-thinking (hishiryo). When there is non-thinking, it is pointless to talk about effort or no effort. What we may interpret, if we really want to, as right effort, is keeping non-thinking.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 31st, 2012 at 7:28 PM
Title: Re: Religion versus spirituality.
Content:
jeeprs said:
That assumes, however, that to be spiritual is to be someone who only wants to use whatever they find acceptable. It might not mean that at all, however. I recall the last words of the Buddha as saying 'be a light unto yourselves'. This doesn't mean 'pleasing yourself' but 'finding your own way'. In any case, this 'light' is what I regard as 'spirit', which can be distinguished from rules, methods and external forms.

Astus wrote:
That is a modern interpretation of those words, typical of an individualist view. What the Buddha says is internalising, realising the teaching.

"Therefore, Ananda, be islands unto yourselves, refuges unto yourselves, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as your island, the Dhamma as your refuge, seeking no other refuge." (DN 16)

"For that which I have proclaimed and made known as the Dhamma and the Discipline, that shall be your Master when I am gone." (DN 16)

This is living a spiritual life within a religion (set of doctrines and practices). The extremes of "religion" and "spirituality" are gasping either the external structure, or relying only on personal interpretation. But the word (external) and the meaning (internal) should go together.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 31st, 2012 at 6:29 PM
Title: Re: Religion versus spirituality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Let's look at this in our Buddhism. Those who think of it as their religion try to follow whatever they perceive as the true teachings (this may or may not fit others' interpretation). And those who think about themselves as spiritual people only want to use whatever they find acceptable in Buddhism but disregard the rest without much worry about it.

Thus, when it comes to debates, the religious Buddhist will probably hold fast to his view of the teachings, while the spiritual user of Buddhism won't really care but see that the religious is dogmatic. On the other hand, the religious Buddhist will see that the spiritual guy has no respect for the teachings and accepts doctrines that are not Buddhist, therefore the spiritual person is not a Buddhist but an outsider, a Dharma-lite consumer.

In fact, the religious Buddhist fails to see that s/he selects whatever school/lineage/interpretation is acceptable to him/her, and even in her/his studies and practices s/he's selective. And the spiritual fellow fails to see how s/he incorporates traditional ideas from Buddhism and other thoughts, while at the same time accepting unquestionably the attitude of individualism.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 31st, 2012 at 5:02 PM
Title: Re: Religion versus spirituality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jeeprs,

What you say, that organised religion is against any mystical experience, that sounds like the propaganda of "spiritual people". Both Eastern and Western Catholic Churches have many recognised mystic saints, and it's a living tradition, especially among Christian monastics. But preconceptions about "religion" naturally make one ignorant of all of these, because one would not even think to look for it there.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 31st, 2012 at 4:30 AM
Title: Re: Religion versus spirituality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Religion puts the emphasis on tradition, rules, structure, external authority. Spirituality puts the emphasis on individuality, modernity, personal freedom. What they hide with these terms is the opposite side. Religion exists as long as there are people who find their spirituality in it. Spirituality exists because there are other people telling what that means. We usually don't invent our own beliefs, only pick and choose from what we learn about. And we don't believe everything we are told, but only those that feel true to us. Religion gives the illusion of an ultimate truth above us. Spirituality gives the illusion of our freedom from being influenced by others.

Those who prefer religion have the idea of "spiritual people" that they are lost, they are selfish, they are heretics. Those who prefer spirituality think that religion is superficial, militaristic, old fashioned. In the end, both are simple terms for simple thinkers, who find some comfort in identifying with some general idea.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 30th, 2012 at 9:09 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Anders


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 30th, 2012 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: Being in the Present
Content:
nirmal said:
Once the mind is concentrated, purified, bright, rid of defilement and steady, should we not directed it to investigate?

Astus wrote:
The steps of shamatha and vipashyana are like that, and they are meant to establish one in Mahamudra, what is described above in the quotes. Or, if you can, start right there.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 29th, 2012 at 4:33 PM
Title: Re: pure land practices?
Content:
Nighthawk said:
Honen never said it was a requirement.

Astus wrote:
There are no requirements in Buddhism. People do whatever they think is best for them, and accordingly they will get the results. You don't have to go to retreats in order to attain birth. But it is good if you have the willing and ability to separate a longer time for buddha-remembrance.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 28th, 2012 at 10:46 PM
Title: Re: Daehaeng Kun Sunim
Content:
Astus wrote:
Oh, my number one living Chan master. Sad news indeed.

On the funeral:
http://wakeupandlaugh.wordpress.com/2012/05/27/daehaeng-sunims-funeral-the-last-day/ " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 28th, 2012 at 9:56 PM
Title: Re: the virtue of non-attachment in Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Being patient is good. Waiting for enlightenment is delusion and incorrect practice. The patience to practise in Zen is, however, the patience of non-production of phenomena (anutpattika-dharma-ksanti). That is seeing emptiness without fear, letting go without worry.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 28th, 2012 at 5:51 PM
Title: Re: pure land practices?
Content:
Nighthawk said:
I follow Honen's interpretation mostly.
Chinese Pure Land practice seems very intense.

Astus wrote:
Jodo Shu also has nenbutsu retreats.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 28th, 2012 at 5:48 PM
Title: Re: the virtue of non-attachment in Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
It's a good beginning. Then stop being attached to non-attachment. And finally, don't create a concept of not being attached to non-attachment. So says Baizhang.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 28th, 2012 at 6:17 AM
Title: Re: are the jhanas taught in zen/chan?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Suffice it to say that there are many approaches to meditation in Buddhadharma that are to be found under the headings of Ch'an and Ch'an Ting. Ch'an Ting alone is an umbrella name for many methods: the Four Dhyanas, the Four Infinities, the Four-Void Worldly Ch'an, the Nine Observations, the Samadhi of Nine Degrees (supramundane), the Ch'an of Self-Nature and the Ch'an Ting. These approaches can lead one to deep dhyana, where real wisdom is to be found; and with real wisdom, there can be self-enlightenment, enlightenment of others and the Ultimate Perfect Enlightenment."
(The Fundamentals of Meditation Practice by Ting Chen, tr. Lok To, p. 71, http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/chanmed1.pdf )

In the above book Ting Chen (about whom I have no information) gives meditation guidance mostly according to Zhiyi's manual of Six Gates and in general the samatha-vipasyana method.

"The Sweet Dews of Chan" ( http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/chandew.pdf ) by Cheng Kuan, who is a 20th century Chinese monk, gives a rather traditional instruction that includes the dhyanas and even meditation on a corpse.

But, as I've mentioned before, it is not easy to pinpoint what Chan stands for. Since it can include any method, there are no restrictions. On the other hand, what is called the Chan School has always embraced the direct path.

Huangbo said,
"From now on whenever walking, standing, sitting or lying down, only practise no-mind. You wait for a long time to have true realisation, because you have little strength for sudden break through. So for three, five, or even ten years you wait to obtain entrance and naturally progress then on. Because you are not that sort of person, you have the need to practise meditation and practise the path. But what does that have to do with the Buddhadharma?" (T48n2012Ap0383c05-08, my translation)

Zongmi's "sudden enlightenment, gradual practice" approach is not really different. Zongmi says, "Therefore, from the first time one produces the thought [of awakening] up to and including becoming a buddha [it is] just calm, just Knowing, immutable and uninterrupted. It is just that according to the stage [of practice] the terminology differs somewhat." (Zongmi on Chan, p. 94)

What is that gradual practice then? Jinul says,
"From this passage we see that the "no-mind which conforms with the path" of the patriarchs' school is not bound by samadhi and prajna. And why is this? The training in samlidhi accords with the noumenon and absorbs all scatteredness; hence it involves the power which can forget conditioning [by lessening the entrancement with sense-objects]. The training in prajna investigates dharmas and contemplates their voidness; hence it involves the effort of effacement [by clearing away the deluded process of thought]. In the direct cognition of no-mind which frees your path of obstructions, the unhindered wisdom of liberation manifests before you and not even one sense-object or thought can enter from outside. They are nothing special; why waste your effort on them?"
(Collected Works of Chinul, p. 286-287)

Zongmi, also quoted by Jinul, explains here the meaning of gradual cultivation within Chan, as different from common gradual techniques. This matches the idea of continuing the original practice of no-thought, what in Dogen's case is called shikantaza.

"If one's practice is based on having all-at-once awakened to the realization that one's own mind is from the outset pure, that the depravities have never existed, that the nature of the wisdom without outflows is from the outset complete, that this mind is buddha, that they are ultimately without difference, then it is dhyana of the highest vehicle. This type is also known by such names as tathagata-purity dhyana, the one-practice concentration, and the thusness concentration. It is the basis of all concentrations. If one can practice it from moment to moment, one will naturally and gradually attain the myriad concentrations. This is precisely the dhyana that has been transmitted down from Bodhidharma. Before Bodhidharma arrived, all of the scholars from early times had understood only the four dhyanas [of the realm of form] and the eight concentrations [that is, those four plus the four formless concentrations of the formless realm]. Various illustrious monks had effectively practiced them, and they had all obtained results. Nanyue [Huisi] and Tiantai [Zhiyi] relied upon the principle of the three truths to practice the three tranquilizations and three viewings. Although the principles of their teachings are most perfect, their entrance gate is step-by-step. It also involves the type of dhyana mentioned above. It is only in the transmission from Bodhidharma that the practitioner all-at-once identifies with buddha substance. This is like no other gate."
(Zongmi on Chan, p. 103-104)

Hanshan Deqing advises the same,
"So called sudden enlightenment and gradual practice refers to one who has experienced a thorough enlightenment but, still has remnant habit tendencies that are not instantaneously purified. For these people, they must, implement the principles from their enlightenment that they have realized to face all circumstances of life and, bring forth the strength from their contemplation and illumination to experience their minds in difficult situations. When one portion of their experience in such situations accords[with the enlightened way], they will have actualized one portion of the Dharmakaya. When they dissolve away one portion of their deluded thinking, that is the degree to which their fundamental wisdom manifests. What is critical is seamless continuity in the practice. [For these people,] it is much more effective when they practice in different real life situations."
( http://chancenter.org/cmc/2011/10/13/essentials-of-practice-and-enlightenment-for-beginners/ )

But there is another point that should be considered, whether one faces stronger or weaker defilements. In this case application of general methods is recommended.

"Question: Having awakened to the true mind of the third teaching, how does one practice it? Does one employ the cross-legged Chan sitting of the first teaching?
Answer: The person who is prone to turbulent, uncontrollable emotions does make use of the teaching devices of the first teaching, but the person of weak depravities and strong intellect relies on the one-practice concentration (samadhi) of Southern Chan and the third teaching. The one-practice concentration is movement and is carried out in the midst of all activities."
(Zongmi on Chan, p. 139)

Finally, Zongmi actually gives an explanation for the case when teachers have to use first the gradual methods to bring students to sudden enlightenment. And this is where the use of dhyanas fits very well.

"In a master-student transmission, [the master] must know the medicine [for each and every] disease. This means that all instructional teaching devices inherited from the past first show the original nature and then require reliance on this nature to practice dhyana. In most cases, when the nature is not easily awakened to, it is due to the grasping of characteristics. Thus, if [a master] wants to reveal this nature, he must first eradicate grasping [on the part of the student]. In [the master's] teaching devices for eradicating this grasping, he must [employ a type of rhetoric in which] common person and noble one are both cut off, merits and faults are both gotten rid of, in the precepts there is neither violation nor observance, in dhyana there is neither concentration nor distraction, the thirty-two marks are all like flowers in the sky, and the thirtyseven parts of the path58 are all a dream or illusion. The idea is that, if [the master] enables [the student] to have a mind free of attachment, then [the student] can practice dhyana."
(Zongmi on Chan, p. 119)


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 26th, 2012 at 6:54 PM
Title: Re: are the jhanas taught in zen/chan?
Content:
Huifeng said:
Hmmm, well, yes.  But, just saying that dhyana will only get one to the human or deva realms is not the same as saying that it is not taught.  For instance, the five precepts basically is standard for rebirth as a human, but that doesn't mean that chan / zen does not teach the five precepts.  The basic "five vehicles" notion - which is related to the position above from Zongmi - almost always emphasizes that the higher stages rely on the lower ones, and the higher ones cannot be attained without the lower ones.  I hope you can see the distinction here.  (Not to mention that there is basically no Buddhist school that indicates that dhyana is ultimate...)

Astus wrote:
Yes, all is seen in a complete view, all teachings are included. But it points out very well that what is understood by Zongmi as the Chan of the Tathagata, what the Chan School is about, is a very "minimalist" path. His definition of the Chan path is no different from what was stated by the already mentioned meditation manuals of Changlu, Foxin and Dogen, and also matches the Platform Sutra's no-thought teaching.

"If a thought arises, be aware of it; once you are aware of it, it will disappear. The excellent gate of practice lies here alone. Therefore, even though you fully cultivate all the practices, just take no mindfulness as the axiom. If you just get the mind of no mindfulness, then love and hatred will spontaneously become pale and faint, compassion and wisdom [prajna] will spontaneously increase in brightness, sinful karma will spontaneously be eliminated, and you will spontaneously be zealous in meritorious practices. With respect to understanding, it is to see that all characteristics are non-characteristics. With respect to practice, it is called the practice of non-practice. When the depravities are exhausted, the rebirth process will cease; once arising and disappearing has extinguished, calmness and illumination will become manifest, and responsive functions will be without limit. It is called becoming a buddha." (Chan Letter in "Zongmi on Chan", p. 88)


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 26th, 2012 at 6:19 PM
Title: Re: are the jhanas taught in zen/chan?
Content:
Jnana said:
There's little doubt that this sort of rhetoric was the more popular and therefore more successful meme, with the consequence that important authors such as Guifeng Zongmi and Yongming Yanshou were relegated to second class status.

Astus wrote:
Zongmi put the dhyanas into the path of humans and gods, the first "chan", while the sudden teaching is in the "fifth chan". As he says, "[One who] cultivates the four stages of meditative absorption and the eight attainments is born into [one of] the heavens of the realm of form or the realm of formlessness." (Peter N. Gregory: Inquiry into the Origin of Humanity, p. 49) So it is not even the "lesser vehicle" by his assessment.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 26th, 2012 at 3:31 AM
Title: Re: are the jhanas taught in zen/chan?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jnana,

True, neither Changlu nor Foxin makes their meditation different from dhyana, and that statement appears only in the revised version of Fukanzazengi and the Zazengi in the Shobogenzo. But long before them there were Shenhui's criticism of all sorts of gradualism and the Platform Sutra addressing this subject more than once.

"The deluded person is attached to the characteristics of dharmas and grasps onto the samādhi of the single practice, merely saying that he always sits without moving and without falsely activating the mind and that this is the samādhi of the single practice. To have an interpretation such as this is to be the same as an insentient object! This is rather to impede the causes and conditions of enlightenment!"
"When the mind does not reside in the dharmas, one’s enlightenment flows freely. For the mind to reside in the dharmas is called ‘fettering oneself.’ If you say that always sitting without moving is it, then you’re just like Śāriputra meditating in the forest, for which he was scolded by Vimalakīrti! Good friends, there are also those who teach meditation [in terms of ] viewing the mind, contemplating tranquility, motionlessness, and nonactivation. You are supposed to make an effort on the basis of these. These deluded people do not understand, and in their grasping become mixed up like all of you here. You should understand that such superficial teachings are greatly mistaken!"
(Platform Sutra, ch. 4)

"In this teaching of seated meditation, one fundamentally does not concentrate on mind, nor does one concentrate on purity, nor is it motionlessness."
"Good friends, what is seated meditation (zuochan)? In this teaching, there is no impediment and no hindrance. Externally, for the mind to refrain from activating thoughts with regard to all the good and bad realms is called ‘seated’ (zuo). Internally, to see the motionlessness of the self-nature is called ‘meditation’ (chan). Good friends, what is it that is called meditative concentration (chanding; samādhi)? Externally, to transcend characteristics is ‘meditation’ (chan). Internally, to be undisturbed is ‘concentration’ (ding)."
(Platform Sutra, ch. 5)


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 25th, 2012 at 9:19 PM
Title: Re: are the jhanas taught in zen/chan?
Content:
bulhaeng said:
Of course in the countries where mahayana assumed a more syncretic form like China and Korea it is not easy to distinguish which practice is zen, which is not zen. Some will agree that chan is only sitting, or only sitting with a huatou, or only silent ilumination. But then again, a  teacher who is nominally chan/seon could teach whatever - chanting, bowing, different kinds of meditation, mantra, sutra studying - if it makes it a chan/zen practice remains for me an open question. But considering that all off today's zen schools have their root in the idea of "seeing nature", teaching gradual meditation stages seems an acquired addition.

Astus wrote:
Syncretism

I wouldn't say there was a point when in China/Korea/Vietnam they begun syncretising schools. First of all, there were never really separate schools, so it's not possible to mix them up. The exception is actually Japan where they separated Buddhism to different institutions. What happened is that Chan - actually, the idea of dharma-transmission and lineages - spread far and wide in the Song dynasty and again in the Ming dynasty in China and created a seeming unity among monastic leaders. But Chan as a school, a path, a practice was not taken up and preserved with the same enthusiasm or exclusivism.

Chan practice

There is no Chan practice really. It's not about practising something specifc. What can be called distinctly Chan method is the huatou technique, which was actually made up by Dahui. And that is why any Mahayana meditation can be embraced as Chan, or rather as a preliminary to Chan.

Chan teacher

If Chan teacher is anyone with a Chan lineage, the majority of Chinese, Vietnamese and Korean monks are Chan teachers. If it means those who specialise in teaching meditation, the leaders of the meditation hall in a monastery, then it can be any kind of meditation method. Only if Chan is defined by a specific doctrine and praxis, or a set of those, can we state that the teaching given is like what Chan meant for certain ancient teachers.

Additions

As said before, the common practices are not really additions to Chan, rather they have always lived together, as both the monastic and lay community possess several methods and traditions of those practices. Exclusive Chan practice is quite rare in fact.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 25th, 2012 at 4:47 PM
Title: Re: are the jhanas taught in zen/chan?
Content:
Astus wrote:
We don't even need to go to Dogen. The very idea of a Chan school is based on direct insight into the nature of mind. The early teachers, those from the East Mountain (Daoxin, Hongren) and what was later called as the Northern School (Shenxiu and heirs) still used some forms of specific meditation techniques, but after Heze Shenhui and the schools of Baotang, Niutou and especially Hongzhou the Chan school was defined as the direct path that does not require gradual stages like in other Mahayana schools.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 25th, 2012 at 7:15 AM
Title: Re: the true nature of siddhis
Content:
kirtu said:
Praetyakabuddhas are supposed to perform miracles to help and convert people during the times between Dharma dispensations.  In some stories masters and saints do the same.

Astus wrote:
There are stories, yes. But as the original question says, where are the living miracle makers in Buddhism, if siddhis exist like magic in Harry Potter's world? And miracles are very much present in Buddhism, starting with the life of Shakyamuni in the earliest texts (see: The Concept of the Buddha by Guang Xing). How should they be understood? I believe there are several factors present, like that people experience miraculous things around teachers today as well, even though it may not necessarily be the teacher's intention, therefore such events seem more like the signs of deep faith. From a subjective perspective, possessing siddhis could be about one's mind reaching new levels of consciousness. It seems quite natural that with meditation they actually appear.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 25th, 2012 at 6:23 AM
Title: Re: the true nature of siddhis
Content:
Astus wrote:
Well, in fact there is a way to convert people with miracles. Certain types of Christians actually do that and they have large groups of followers. Korea is an example for a country with strong Buddhist connections where today there are probably more who believe in Jesus than Buddha, partially because of the miracle makers.

if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 24th, 2012 at 11:55 PM
Title: Re: the true nature of siddhis
Content:
Astus wrote:
And since these siddhis are all very personal, just like miracles in any other religion, it is not verifiable by any scientific test, or shown to a general public, like on TV or in a theatre. Thus it is not possible to be used to convert people.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 24th, 2012 at 3:53 PM
Title: Re: Being in the Present
Content:
Astus wrote:
We like to think we are the one watching the thoughts. But that is based on the assumption that otherwise we would miss them. Also, it is the idea that is the problem, the reification of the mind. Just relaxing, resting in the nature of the mind means no objectification of any subject. That's why there is first the insight meditation and the analysis of the mind, to establish clearly it's ungraspable and luminous nature.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 24th, 2012 at 3:50 AM
Title: Re: Being in the Present
Content:
Konchog1 said:
I still don't quite get it, but thanks.

Astus wrote:
Which part do you find incomprehensible, or unacceptable?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 23rd, 2012 at 7:54 PM
Title: Re: Europe near the end?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Europe near the end? Sounds like some bad newspaper headline. Does people have any idea of what Europe actually is outside this continent? Belarus, Macedonia, Norway, Moldavia, Albania, etc. are all in Europe but they are not members of the EU, and not all EU members use the Euro (17 of 27 member states use it). Also, a financial crisis, even if it goes to the worst possible level, would not mean the end of Europe. Many empires, kingdoms and nations have emerged and disappeared already, but the people are still here.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 23rd, 2012 at 7:38 PM
Title: Re: Being in the Present
Content:
Konchog1 said:
What's the difference? Isn't it the same thing at first? Letting thoughts arise and waving at them as they pass?

Astus wrote:
If you take the position of watching your thoughts, that is still grasping at a mental state, a thought. So even if the instruction is to watch the thoughts, it means not grasping any of them, not forcing anything, not elaborating. If you try to be the watcher, that is a contrived and tiring practice. And it is also a mistake to believe that there is somebody looking at thoughts.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 23rd, 2012 at 5:56 AM
Title: Re: finding a teacher.
Content:
Astus wrote:
You might also think a bit about what kind of guidance you want. It is a bit unrealistic to keep wondering about another's inner qualities without actually knowing them. In fact, anyone who has studied Buddhism for a couple of years and practised meditation can give sensible advice. You just have to open your ears for it.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 23rd, 2012 at 5:29 AM
Title: Re: Being in the Present
Content:
Konchog1 said:
Serious Question. Isn't this Eckhart Tolle's core teaching? To remain in the present instant at all times, waiting for the next thought like a cat waiting for a mouse to appear?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Now#The_ego_and_the_deeper_Presence " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Astus wrote:
Student: When I just watch my thoughts without following them, is that meditation as it is meant here?
RTR: What I was trying to say is that you do not watch your thoughts. You just are, and let your thoughts come and go. Can you understand that?
(Daring Steps, p. 200)

One method he recommends is simply to listen to the voice in the head without judging it in any way or getting caught up in its contents. Just by 'watching the thinker' in the head, he says, "You'll soon realise: there is the voice, and here I am listening to it." That I am realisation is "a sense of your own presence ... (arising) from beyond the mind." And as one becomes aware of this deeper self as a conscious presence, so the involuntary thinking begins to subside, giving way to stillness, peace and what he calls "the joy of Being."
(from the above linked Wikipedia article)

"At this time, you may have an experience of bliss, from which you feel you cannot bear to be parted. Do not cling to it. There may be an experience of clarity. Do not hold onto it, getting the conceited idea, ‘This is the flow of my innermost nature, which is clear and distinct.’ You may be in total absence of thought, resembling all remembrance and scheming being cut. Do not get attached to this either. Within the notion, ‘This is freedom from conceptual mind,’ remain beyond. You should turn toward the one who perceives and creates all these things. Get to the top of that itself and settle right there. Then you will remain in meditative equipoise with nothing to settle upon. The nature of everything is apparent. There is no reason for thought or conceptual grasping. When you are meditating, there is no inner onlooker present. When you are not meditating, the cause of distraction is lost. Mindfulness being self- liberated, the knot of hope and apprehension is untied within the sphere of openness and relaxation. The chains of doubt are severed. There is ever- present purity, beyond bondage and liberation. This is primordial wisdom, freed from the need of applying an antidote. It is dharmata, in which everything to be abandoned is exhausted. From this alone we realize our nature, the mind of the primordial protector."
(Daring Steps, p. 170 - emphasis added)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 23rd, 2012 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: Being in the Present
Content:
Astus wrote:
Mahamudra meditation means nothing other than just being there, being within the simplest state of ourselves. Most of you will have heard of the meditation technique in which one does not heed any thoughts of the past or future. One neither dwells upon memories nor speculates about future plans. One just rests in complete nowness. This is what is meant here. When we do not follow thoughts of the past and do not anticipate future events, but are just here, in tune with the present moment, we are in a state of newness and freshness. The text describes this as the essence of whatever thought arises being ever new.
This means that we let things arise and do not stop or manipulate them. We just sit there totally open and unblocked, completely fresh and alert. We hear things, see things, sense and feel things, but do not react in anyway. We just are in the precision and newness of the very moment itself. This is the uncontrived state of being in which we are completely natural and fresh, totally uninvolved, not speculating or manipulating or making up images. We are just then and there, conscious, alert, and clear.
If we are able to remain in that state and look at our present mind, completely leaving what is there at this moment, without interfering with anything, just relaxing and being in that very moment, this is the meditation of Mahamudra beyond preparatory stages. Being in the present moment does not mean being stuck there. It means being in the stream of passing moments, leaving ourselves to the flux. Whatever arises, let it arise. Do not label it, just let it be. Let it arise and arise, and do not react no matter how good or bad it may seem. Do not fall to evaluations and concepts about it. When we are able to do that, we will be in a state that is free from contrivance. In this state there is no distraction, as one does not follow or react to anything.
Being distracted means pursuing a thought that comes up. For instance, when we hear the sound of a car passing by, this in itself is not a distraction. But the moment we think, “There is a car,” we have labeled what we heard as being the sound of a car. Then, we build up a chain reaction: “This place is noisy. I shouldn’t be distracted, but now I am. There are too many cars in this city.” In this way we become more and more angry, thinking, “This is terrible! I am disturbed. I cannot meditate in this place.” This is distraction. When a car passes by, let it pass by. Then, it is finished, it is all right; there is nothing wrong with it. The problem is not the sound of the car, but our reaction to it.

(Ringu Tulku in "Daring Steps Toward Fearlessness", p. 197-198)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 22nd, 2012 at 7:45 PM
Title: Re: Does the precept of no drugs or alcohol mean no coffee?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The meaning of the fifth lay precept is to avoid a state of mind where one could easily break the first four precepts. Drinking alcohol and consuming drugs have no karmic effect in and of themselves as far as the ten good/bad deeds are concerned. Coffee, tea, different medicines, etc. don't make it any more likely to break the first four precepts, thus using or avoiding them is irrelevant to Buddhist ethics.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 22nd, 2012 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: Need info regarding Zen and Pratityasamutpada
Content:
Astus wrote:
And, as Anders said before, East Asian Buddhism is not the same as Indian or Tibetan Buddhism. Even Madhyamaka was forgotten after the 7th century, and the leading views of Buddhism are found in the works of Tiantai, Huayan and Chan masters.
Another thing to mention is that dependent origination outside of Theravada is rarely associated with the 12 nidanas, it is more of a general understanding about all phenomena.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 21st, 2012 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: Mahāmudrā & Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lhug-Pa,

Why don't you simply look at the actual instructions of Mahamudra and Dzogchen where the nature of mind is being pointed out/at? Terminology can be very different, and without the necessary definitions very confusing.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 21st, 2012 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: Mahāmudrā & Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lhug-Pa,

The basis of Mahamudra (whether sutra or tantra) is the ground Mahamudra, and that is nothing else but buddha-nature. Alaya-vijnana, the storehouse consciousness, is simply our habits. There is no Buddhist practice founded on habits, since it would not lead to liberation. Thus the foundation is always wisdom, ordinary consciousness, or whatever name you prefer.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 21st, 2012 at 12:07 AM
Title: Re: Need info regarding Zen and Pratityasamutpada
Content:
Astus wrote:
Besides Nagarjuna - as the primary master on dependent origination in Mahayana - you should as well look at the Shalistamba Sutra ( http://www.scribd.com/doc/29421082/Salistamba-Sutra ), the Yogacara teaching of the eight consciousnesses ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Consciousnesses ), and the Huayan teaching of interpenetration ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huayan_school#Interpenetration ) and the metaphor of Indra's net ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra%27s_net ). These teachings provide the basis of East Asian Mahayana's view of dependent origination, and Dogen relied on them implicitly.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 19th, 2012 at 8:47 PM
Title: Being in the Present
Content:
Astus wrote:
We speak of the three times - past, present and future - as an expression of the insight that nothing lasts but everything is characterized by impermanence. Our impression of time passing is brought about by the continual movement of our mind, with its incessantly changing world of experiences. Intellectually, this is easy for us to understand, but we find it difficult to apply this insight to our daily lives, in which we often have the tendency to want to stop time and prevent certain situations from developing.
It is precisely our wish to want to halt the continual change of things that causes us to suffer. When we deeply accept becoming and ceasing as something inevitable, then there is no longer any cause for suffering. If we live impermanence and deeply understand it, then it becomes a friend who helps us settle in the dimension of the present moment and experience the unity of mind and its projections.
If our mind did not project appearances, would there be past, present and future? Surely not. There would be no feeling of time passing, as the impression of time is solely caused by the changing projections of our mind. If we wish to achieve certainty about this, we must look directly into our mind in meditation again and again; words and intellectual understanding are not adequate for this. Only through repeated investigation of our own mind can we truly grasp that the world that surrounds us is nothing but a projection of our mind - its dynamic expression, its luminosity.
Our mind is a succession of moments of awareness - and these moments of present awareness cannot be extended. We cannot say: "Thoughts, please stop for a moment, so that I may look at you and understand you." Trying to stop the movements of our mind, in order to look at a thought or insight more carefully, blocs the natural, spontaneous dynamics of the mind. There is no point in trying to seize an insight so that we can look at it closely. In true insight, there is nothing that could be looked at or understood.
As long as we cherish the desire to understand something, to define and explain it, we miss the real point of our practice and continue in our ordinary mental fixation. If we wish to appropriate an insight, there needs to be someone who wants to understand something - and immediately we recreate the 'I', the thinker. In reality, there is nobody who understands and no object that is to be understood - there simply is only seeing. As soon as we cling to an 'I', there is no more seeing.
If we are dissatisfied with the prospect of not being able to understand, that is because we wish to have something for ourselves. We hope to be able to control and master things. But in truth we cannot control or understand anything. If we wish to arrive at a true understanding, we must let go of all personal desire. We should search for the thinker who wants to understand and control. Then we will see that we canot find them, since they do not exist as such. If there is no thinker, then it is only natural that there is no understanding of thought processes and the mind.
Thinker and thoughts are empty, without true existence. This fundamental emptiness is the truth body. The luminosity, or dynamics, of this empty mind, its capacity to create thoughts, is the enjoyment body. The manifold expression of the mind, its capacity to assume a myriad forms in a continual change, is the emanation body.

When we allow our mind to engage in its
natural, spontaneous activity, we will recognize
its three fundamental qualities: emptiness,
luminosity and unobstructed manifestation.

We will not, as we may have feared, find ourselves in an empty, blank state. Rather, we will discover that our thoughts are the treasure of the three bodies of enlightenment, the inexhaustible source of wealth of qualities.
What can we do to gain insight into the nature of mind? We should meditate and allow our mind to rest in the awareness of the present moment. The true nature of mind is nothing other than this moment of open awareness. In this sense of presence, there is nothing that could be grasped by thought, described or seen. This does not mean, however, that there is nothing at al, but only that no awareness as such is seen. When we rest in this immediate awareness that is the nature of mind, we understand that all appearances are created through the habitual tendencies of our confused mind.
The goal of Mahamudra meditation is to see directly the nature of this confusion. This happens when the mind merges with the awareness of the present moment which is its basic nature. In that moment, it is freed of all the negativity and obscurations of all our lifetimes. To penetrate to this experience, we must meditate again and again, over a long period of time, and use all situations for the meditation on the true nature of mind. If we do this, one day we will attain realization  and with it complete certainty. We will see directly what the mind is and how it works. From that day on, all our doubts will have been resolved completely.
In Mahamudra meditation, we simply allow body and mind to relax and rest in openness. To relax completely does not mean to slump in a lazy way. Rather, it entails maintaining a clear, vivid awareness that perceives all impulses of the mind to hold on to something and lets go of the immediately. Without getting annoyed about our attachment, we simply perceive it and allow it to free itself. Attachment is the sole thing we must abandon, and that is why the teachings speak so insistently of the need for complete relaxation of the mind.
In the view of Mahamudra, in which we make no distinction between good thoughts and bad thoughts but allow all appearances equally to dissolve in their true nature, there is one danger. We may regard ourselves as great yogis and think that with this view that is as expansive as the sky, we no longer need to pay attention to the small details of life and of our actions. This erroneous view is rooted in a pride that is as big as a mountain. To think that everything in its nature is emptiness and, therefore, it is no longer necessary to perform wholesome actions and to avoid unwholesome ones, leads to arrogant, inconsiderate behavior. A "great yogi" of that persuasion would entangle themselves more and more in the worldly thinking and acting. Their disturbing emotions would increase, and they would move further and further away from awakening.
In order not to fall into this error, we should cultivate the flawless behavior of a bodhisattva and constantly check whether our body, speech and mind conform to the teachings of the Buddha. Even with the very expansive view of Mahamudra, a view that is all-embracing as the universe, we have to be very sensitive and exact in our actions. As soon as we have developed the correct view and actually apply it in practice, we are able to recognize the ultimate reality in ourselves, without having to undertake any great effort to accomplish this. The recognition of the nature of mind is the only thing that we actually need - it has the power to liberate us from everything and to liberate all beings in the universe, too.
All phenomena of the external world are only the manifestations of the luminosity of our own mind and ultimately have no reality. When we allow our mind to rest in the recognition that everything that it experiences is its own projection, the separation between subject and object comes to an end. Then there is no longer anyone who grasps at something and nothing that is being grasped at - subject and object are recognized to be unreal.
In order to experience this, we allow our mind to remain in its ordinary consciousness, the awareness of the present moment, which is the deep, unchanging nature of mind itself and which is also called "timeless awareness." That is the natural insight that arises spontaneously when in every moment we look directly at the true nature of mind.

In seeing the nature of mind, there is nothing to "see"
since it is not an object of perception. We see it without
seeing anything. We know it without knowing anything.

The mind recognizes itself spontaneously, in a way beyond all duality. The path that leads to this is the awareness of the present moment, free of all interference. It is an error to think that the ultimate truth) is difficult to recognize. The meditation on the nature of mind is actually very easy, as we do not have to go anywhere to find this nature. No work needs to be done to produce it; no effort is required to find it. It is sufficient for us to sit down, allow our mind to rest in itself and directly look at the one who thinks that it is difficult to find the nature of mind. In that moment, we discover it directly, as it is very close and always within easy reach.
It would be absurd to worry that we might not succeed in discovering the nature of mind, as it is already present in us. It is sufficient to look into ourselves. When our mind directs its gaze upon itself, it finds itself and understands that the seeker and the sought are not two different things. At the moment, we cannot see the nature of our mind because we do not know how we must look. The problem is not that we do not possess the capacity for doing this but that we do not look in the right way.
To become capable of recognizing the nature of mind in the way described, we have to work at relaxing deeply and letting go of all wanting, so that the natural state of mind can reveal itself. This work is the exact opposite of worldly effort, in which we strive to obtain concrete things and put ourselves into a state of strain. In the practice of Dharma, we must "strain without effort." This does not mean that we do nothing at all and simply remain as we are, because then we would continue to reproduce the same behavior patterns that have existed in us since beginningless time. We must make an effort to purify our ego-centered tendencies and become aware of our intentions.

(Gendun Rinpoche in "Heart Advice from a Mahamudra Master", p. 144-149)


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 19th, 2012 at 5:27 AM
Title: Re: What is the end all be all manual on chan/zen or buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The problem is that Chan is not an organised doctrine. There are a few basic concepts and practices that are favoured in Chan, but nothing exclusive, unique or definitive. Even more, there are different trends that can all be categorised under Chan. It is a common practice to distinguish Chan from Jiao, i.e. the doctrines, but only since the early Song dynasty when Chan emerged as a separate school. Therefore the saying "separate transmission outside doctrines" (jiao wai bie chuan 教外別傳). What is transmitted is the buddha-mind, enlightenment itself, and not specific teachings, methods or anything like that. Some misunderstand this as a rejection of scriptures, or that this is some hidden transmission between master and student. But that is not the case. Still, it explains the nature of this tradition. That's why there are no manuals like the Visuddhimagga or the Mohezhiguan in Chan. It's not about stages, practices, doctrines or methods. It also does not reject them, but uses freely whatever is required. That's how it can encompass the whole Mahayana without being bound by specific texts. Chan is the essence of all the teachings of the Buddha, so whatever manual you pick it eventually leads to Chan. Or you can just directly enter the gateless gate yourself, and that is the ultimate Chan way.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 18th, 2012 at 4:37 PM
Title: Re: What is the end all be all manual on chan/zen or buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There are lot of manuals on Buddhhism, lot of books, lot of explanations. Theravada is good, Mahayana is good, Vajrayana is good. But none of them is Chan. Chan is just this mind reading and thinking, searching for something to hold on to. Have you found it yet?

As for a Chan meditation manual, the most comprehensive in English is "Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation" by Carl Bielefeldt.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 17th, 2012 at 8:31 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
This is a nice summary in your signature Magnus. The truth, the real condition being beyond concepts is not difficult for any student of Madhyamaka (or Yogacara, Mahamudra, Chan, etc) to comprehend and even experience. As Jnana mentioned, cutting up space is nothing but proliferation (prapanca) that even the old suttas teach not to do. Dzogchen can be the essence of all vehicles, because all have the same essence, i.e. non-conceptual wisdom. Arguing about which method, doctrine, lineage is superior or inferior has already been discussed, and everyone sticks to their chosen path as the best, so let's just put that aside for now. If we accept that non-conceptual wisdom is the essence of the teachings, and that Dzogchen leads one to just that, it is only natural that it works as a path on its own without any other requirements, and that way it perfects whatever there is to accomplish on the path of all nine vehicles.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sutra Mahamudra is just what Mahamudra as a gradual path is understood. Tantra Mahamudra is what is found in completion stage. Essence Mahamudra is the nature of mind and it being pointed out as the method. But this is just one way to explain the different forms of Mahamudra.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Good points Jnana.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 9:16 PM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Astus wrote:
Matylda,

As you said, most of those practices you have mentioned are not really transmitted to the West, for a couple of reasons. You may also know that most of the Soto Zen groups in the West are not associated with the Soto church in Japan. These are differences that should be recognised, and handled separately. So what you write about is all very interesting. Perhaps you could organise these information a bit and create a website or blog about it in English, to show how things are currently done in Japan. You might also make some comparisons with the teachings and methods spread among Western Zen students.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 6:23 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Content:
kalden yungdrung said:
Are there then "Buddhists", who have understanding or are willing to understand Dzogchen?
Forgot to ask you, what do you understand under:"can easily result in arrogance" ?

Astus wrote:
I think it is quite simple that those who are interested in Buddhism and those who consider themselves Buddhists have contact with Dzogchen. In fact, it is quite easy to get both teachers and books on Dzogchen in English and other Western languages, unlike several other Buddhist teachings, like Yogacara and Abhidharma.

What I meant is that people hear about hinayana, sutrayana, lower and higher tantras, but without actually studying them they are just told that those are limited teachings, theoretical teachings without practical application, and they don't lead to real enlightenment. So, without proper understanding, people will disregard them in contempt that whoever follows those are people of midiocre karma and intellect.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 5:40 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Content:


Lhug-Pa said:
But this could get into a debate about whether or not non-Dzogchen traditions in themselves could introduce to people that which is introduced (the Nature of Mind) in Dzogchen (a debate which has been done to death).

asunthatneversets said:
I think bottom line is most of them only go as far as the ālaya (interpreted in the context of their own traditions of course). That coupled with being severed from the lineage makes it quite difficult. Most traditions reify a ground as a true existent. No other tradition does direct introduction, and not sure if they could given their self-inflicted shortcomings in that respect. Doesn't mean they cannot receive introduction and practice/benefit from it though.

Dechen Norbu said:
That's the point.

Astus wrote:
Interesting. Although the nature of mind in all different schools are understood to be universal, and it is something quite easy to see, there is this idea that only one specific school/lineage has the actual methods to comprehend it, while obviously the teachings are known to so many. It is all right that there is an independent group of Dzogchen practitioners who don't want to identify with Nyingma, Bon, or any other school. But this ignorance of other teachings can easily result in arrogance that there is not a single Buddhist outside the Dzogchen group who has a proper understanding of the teachings that are actually found in their own sutras, tantras and treatises.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 5:10 PM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Astus wrote:
Matylda,

Where is shikantaza taught the way you talk about? Is it a specific teacher, temple or lineage of Soto Zen? Or more of a philosophical branch?
There were clear instructions quoted and referred to here, and there are many more available. For instance, from the Soto church's official website:

"Do not concentrate on any particular object or control your thought. When you maintain a proper posture and your breathing settles down, your mind will naturally become tranquil.
When various thoughts arise in your mind, do not become caught up by them or struggle with them; neither pursue nor try to escape from them. Just leave thoughts alone, allowing them to come up and go away freely. The essential thing in doing zazen is to awaken (kakusoku) from distraction and dullness, and return to the right posture moment by moment."

Before and after this it gives all the ritual and physical acts one should be aware of, pictures included. What else could be there to it? Gives the same insturctions one finds everywhere. That's why I ask where all those other extras you mention come from.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 6:58 AM
Title: Re: "Applied" Zen: Ginny Whitelaw on Leadership
Content:
Matylda said:
Well if you speak of samurai or kamikaze that is pointing out certain connotation. Just this...

Astus wrote:
There is a quite strong idea in the West that Zen and martial arts are closely connected, if not inseparable.
A good example for this is Ginny Whitelaw herself who is both a Zen master and 5th degree black belt Aikido master, who studied in the Chozen-ji Rinzai line where they practice both sitting meditation and martial arts together.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Content:
Lhug-Pa said:
Since Direct Introduction from the Guru is the foundation of Dzogchen, it follows that the only way that Vipassana or Zen could be integrated with the Natural State of the Great Perfection as pointed out by a Guru, would be if the Vipassana or Zen student or teacher has received the Direct Introduction him or herself; whether in this physical dimension or in a Dream Yoga state.

Astus wrote:
That was not my point. I talked about the attitude Namdrol presented how Dzogchen can be taught to all humans regardless of race, country, creed, etc. is an idea took up by other people too. And there the teaching is also presented as something that can be experienced by all and not as a doctrine, thus it universally applies to everybody.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 5:09 AM
Title: Re: "Applied" Zen: Ginny Whitelaw on Leadership
Content:
Matylda said:
What do you mean by this? do you think that in Japanese zen there is no teaching on compassion and that they exercise nihilism? How this idea came to your mind?

Astus wrote:
I meant a limited understanding of Zen. Its not related to any specific nation, but only the human tendency of grasping at words without seeing the context.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 5:06 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Buddhism
Content:
Namdrol said:
Dzogchen is the heart of all paths, whether of samsara or nirvana, and is the truth that everyone is trying to discover. What is Dzogchen? We all know the answer to that question -- it is our real condition.

Everyone, no matter what religion they belong to, is trying to discover the truth. That truth exists in the heart of every single sentient being. So when you discover that truth, there is no need to remain locked in the limitations of "Buddhist" and "non-Buddhist".
...
If we ground ourselves in the deep natural transformation that comes from recognizing and integrating with our primordial potentiality, then we can go beyond the limitations of religion, ideology, nation, class, race and tribe. By going beyond these limitations (as well as the limitations of conceptuality, imputation, paths, stages, realizations, attainments, buddhas and sentient beings) through recognizing our own innate state that is originally pure and naturally formed, we can move freely through the world and meet everyone and everthing from the authentic space of recognition of great original purity of all that is.

Astus wrote:
I don't know how much you wander in Buddhism, but this is a topic others have also thought about and wrote of. Just a few examples:

One Dharma: The Emerging Western Buddhism by Joseph Goldstein
Rebel Buddha: A Guide to a Revolution of Mind by Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche
Just Use This Mind: Follow the Universal Truth to Oneness of Mind, Body and Spirit by Ven. Miao Tsan

And don't forget the modern movements of Vipassana and Zen that detached themselves from cultural and religious limitations and started to focus on personally experiencing the true nature of mind. This is basically the recipe of their success among Westerners.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 3:28 AM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Frank said:
So I get really calm and near the first jhana by focusing on my breathing, then I drop my meditation object and just abide in calm awareness. Does that sound like shikantaza?

Astus wrote:
Not exactly. What you describe is more like samatha without object, or a more subtle object. Shikantaza is about not grasping any state, any thought, any feeling, no matter what comes up.

Frank said:
The question now then I suppose is: where does shikantaza stand in the great scheme? Jhana meditation can (allegedly) lead to enlightenment when combined with insight. Where can shikantaza lead? Are there stages one goes through? Or is it just that pure awareness for as long as you can hold it?

Astus wrote:
Shikantaza has no stages, it is not something to develop, maintain or master. That's why it is called practice-realisation, it is buddhahood itself. If you want to put it into a scheme, check out Zhiyi's "The Six Dharma Gates to the Sublime", where in the first chapter under the first gate the different jhanas (hinayana dhyana) are covered, while Shikantaza is the perfect contemplation in chapter 9. I recommend you read the whole treatise to get a full picture. Also, "The Essentials of Buddhist Meditation" by Zhiyi is another important work that can greatly help understanding the position of Zen. As you may notice, Zhiyi was the founder of the Tiantai school before the emergence of Chan. However, you won't really find such detailed meditation manuals in Zen, and monks have relied on Tiantai instructions everywhere.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 12:11 AM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Frank said:
Interesting, could you explain why it's irrelevant? It seems like you either will go through them with said practice or not.

Astus wrote:
So, I think it has been made clear already what kind of attitude shikantaza has. Samatha meditation is about focusing on one thing, and that develops jhana in the form realms. Not focusing on a solid thing but extending the view to infinity and beyond, one maintains the calmness of the fourth jhana. Shikantaza is not about focusing or extending one's mind, but not attaching to any phenomenon. Since that non-attachment results in a calm mind, it can be compared to the gradual  cooling within samatha. Nevertheless, it is irrelevant because all these mental states just come and go, and the goal is not to make it some graspable state, but to learn to be aware without attachment.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2012 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://mro.org/zmm/teachings/daido/teisho20.php by Daido Roshi.

"Abide in neither thinking nor not thinking. Thinking is linear and sequential, a separation from the reality that is the subject of thought, and thus is an abstraction rather than the reality itself. Not thinking is suppressive. It cuts away thoughts the moment they arise, making the mind into a great impenetrable mountain—dead, unresponsive. Non-thinking has no such edges. It is the boundless mind of samadhi that neither holds on to, nor lets go of, thoughts. It is the manifestation of the buddha mind in which the dualism of self and other, thinking and not thinking, dissolve. This is the dharma of thusness that is the right thought of all the buddhas in the ten directions."


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2012 at 5:35 PM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Frank said:
I know the jhanas forwards and backwards (on paper, not in practice. i'm no jhana master... maybe the first one once or twice, but that's probably all, i'm wondering which jhana, if any, shikantaza correlates with and whether or not practicing shikantaza will take one through all four and then through the further formless jhanas? Dogen taught both thoughtless shikantaza and taught to analyze the mind while in that state. It is a confusing topic. Vipissana is a term used with such great ambiguity that I don't even know where to begin.

Astus wrote:
Jhanas are from samatha practice, different stages of the calmness of the mind and gradually subtler points of focus. Whether one experiences any of the jhanas in zazen or not is mostly irrelevant. On the other hand, the actual meditation requires a calm state, therefore at least the first jhana, optimally the fourth jhana is similar to what one has.
As shikantaza is understood is mostly just sitting without attaching to any state. It doesn't mean that's the only possible practice.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2012 at 5:21 AM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't know what mixed teachings of Dogen you refer to. Without thoughts how can you make an analysis?
Jhana is a Pali term used to denote some level of absorption, vipassana can have several meanings. Please specify.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2012 at 3:54 AM
Title: Re: Shikantaza
Content:
Astus wrote:
Quite simple. Don't grasp whatever occurs in the mind - the complete field of experience - but just let it come and let it go. Then you add to this all the formalities of a Soto Zen temple, if you want to.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 14th, 2012 at 2:37 AM
Title: Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche also gives regular teachings made available online, but it's not only Mahamudra of course.

I think that since hardly any teacher restricts the teachings to Mahamudra, it is unlikely that there will be anything more than perhaps a series of teachings on this subject. But, with some growth in interest, this might eventually change.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 14th, 2012 at 2:31 AM
Title: Re: Sheng Yen's "Footprints in the Snow"
Content:
Astus wrote:
I did not read the whole article, but Lachs says at the beginning that the book was not written by Ven. Shengyan but an American reporter who does not even speak Chinese. That's one thing. Another is that no biography contains every details. If someone would actually want to investigate the life of Ven. Shengyan and the truth of and biographical detail, it would take lot more effort than simply going through one book written by a person without actual connection to the events. To conclude from this that Ven. Shengyan lied, that is quite a big leap.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 14th, 2012 at 2:02 AM
Title: Re: Issues with deficient teaching masked by the illogic of Zen
Content:
shel said:
It's not clear what you are saying, Astus. Are you suggesting that Zen teachers should get medical training, for example, to "embody" the aspiration to help "by all means possible"?

Astus wrote:
Some do have medical or therapeutic training too. But that's not the point. If somebody comes with a problem with their relationship or their boss, the teacher can give some useful instructions on how to make the mind more peaceful and compassionate. Since problems exist in the mind, it is in the mind where they can be handled in the first place. Then, if it is needed, the student can take further steps, but with more wisdom and kindness.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 14th, 2012 at 1:52 AM
Title: Re: Any regular Mahamudra webcasts?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Mahamudra is not as bound to transmissions as Dzogchen, when it is understood to be separate from the path of sutra and tantra. So it is very much acceptable to have books, DVD's and all the other forms spreading the teachings made available. It is, after all, a liberating instruction.

The Quintessence of Mahamudra says in the chapter "The Description of the Preparatory Exercises for This Meditative Path" (p. 123f)

"Regarding the manner of imparting the profound path [of mahamudra], the venerable Gampopa considered it to be an independent path of tantra. So he did not make the esoteric empowerment a prerequisite for receiving the mahamudra teachings. He spoke about the method of directly guiding the disciple toward the intrinsic reality of the mind."

and

"On the other hand, if one follows venerable Gampopa's system in elucidating mahamudra alone, it is not necessary to bestow the empowerment upon devotees. In keeping with his system one should adhere to the preparatory exercises he prescribed without incorporating the tantric meditation of Vajrasattva, the utterance of mantra, the transformation of oneself into yidam, and the visualization of one's guru in the form of Buddha Vajradhara, the source of the mystic empowerment."

And Thrangu Rinpoche's view related to this:

"I think that it is of far greater importance than the experience of dramatic instantaneous pointing out that people be taught mahamudra as a full system of instruction that they can implement on their own gradually through diligent application using either one of the three texts by the Ninth Gyalwang Karmapa—The Ocean of Definitive Meaning, Dispelling the Darkness of Ignorance, or Pointing Out the Dharmakaya— or one of the texts by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal—either Moonbeams of Mahamudra or The Clarification of the Natural State.
In short, I think it is of far more importance that people receive this kind of complete and systematic instruction so that they can gradually develop experience on their own, than that some kind of dramatic pointing-out procedure be done. Of course, it is possible to give dramatic pointing-out instruction, and when you do so, some people do recognize their mind’s nature. But, if I may say so, I question the stability and, therefore, ultimately the value of that. It certainly is a dramatic experience for those people who achieve it, but I see no evidence of their kleshas diminishing as a result. And furthermore, they then carry away with them the arrogance of the thought, “I have seen my mind’s nature.” I think it is of far greater importance actually to practice meditation slowly and surely and make all possible use of the resources which this book in particular gives you. It is after all a big book and contains within it much instruction, much guidance, and a lot of questions that can help you to question and therefore refine your own experience."
(Ocean of Definitive Meaning, p. 127-128)


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 14th, 2012 at 1:12 AM
Title: Re: Issues with deficient teaching masked by the illogic of Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is a bodhisattva's mission to help people suffer less, ultimately leading them to complete liberation. A teacher of Zen should embody that aspiration by all means possible.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 14th, 2012 at 1:04 AM
Title: Re: Sheng Yen's "Footprints in the Snow"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Stuart Lachs is well known for criticising modern Zen and its teachers. He usually has some good points, but as always, one should be careful about the sources. Religious biographies are famous for exaggerating and creating an otherworldly picture of whoever is the subject of the writing, but that's not necessarily intentional, just the way the writer conceives it. What to make of all this? Not much, I think. Let the teaching and the precepts be one's guide, not superstitions, personal cults, historical claims, angry criticism, or anything else.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 14th, 2012 at 12:28 AM
Title: Re: Issues with deficient teaching masked by the illogic of Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
When something is read in English it's easy to forget that it's a translation from long ago and from a foreign sub-culture. Those who today actually talk like the people in koans, well, they're just lost in language. Zen is not illogical, nor is it about being illogical. If something doesn't make sense, one should ask, investigate and study. There is no use of believing that just because a guy in robes said something it must be some mystical revelation.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 9th, 2012 at 1:28 AM
Title: Re: "transmission outside the scriptures"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Or if you want to know about the formation of the idea of "transmission outside the scriptures", you should read "How Zen Became Zen: The Dispute Over Enlightenment and the Formation of Chan Buddhism in Song-Dynasty China" by Morten Schlütter.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 8th, 2012 at 3:50 PM
Title: Re: "transmission outside the scriptures"
Content:
Astus wrote:
That four-line verse says nothing about teachers, telepathy, and papers of enlightenment.
First, note that all monastics are also teachers of the Dharma. So there is no point in saying that you are now a special teacher. Of course, there are specific roles in a monastery monks can take up, among which the highest is the abbot, who is the primary organiser of life there. The so called lineage was and is used (to a minimal extent) to relate the abbots of different monasteries.
In the West it is obviously different. Zen came here first from Japan, and also it is not practised in a monastic environment. This resulted in the idea that the only proper teachers are those who have been recognised as such by other teachers. Then you can add to this the legend of recognition lineage going back to Shakyamuni. Since in the West everyone is a lay person, the only obvious way to make a difference between teachers and students is using this paper transmission like a diploma to authenticate people to teach.

This can be detailed on and on, but I can assure you, there is no telepathy involved, neither is anyone actually enlightened by being handed down a piece of fancy writing.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 8th, 2012 at 3:21 PM
Title: Re: use of mala in zen/chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
A common practice with mala is nianfo, usually reciting the name of Amita Buddha.

Here is a book for you on that practice: http://www.ymba.org/monkey/monkyfrm.htm

But it's not very complicated at all, I mean, using a mala. You recite, you count, or just hold it in your hands, and that's it. You might find special practices taught by some teachers, but that's likely to be a larger area where differences are abundant.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 8th, 2012 at 3:16 PM
Title: Re: zen/chan practices and the pali canon
Content:
Astus wrote:
Chan is about sudden enlightenment. The concept itself can exist because there is the teaching of buddha-mind. From this, in practical terms, comes the method/instruction to see one's nature. From this arises the practice of no-thought, the mind without abiding on anything - a derivative of Prajnaparamita teachings. This can be likened to the Theravada teaching on the three gates (emptiness, signlessness, desirelessness) which is also in the Prajnaparamita sutras. Huatou practice is meant as a gateway to no-thought.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 7th, 2012 at 4:13 AM
Title: Re: Reading suggestions about the history of Dzogchen
Content:
pensum said:
I suggest you check the contents of Wellsprings yourself and make your own personal decision as to whether the contents are of interest to you or not

Astus wrote:
I have had it on my shelf for a while now. I usually don't talk about books that I have not looked at myself. But, as always, I present only my view of it.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 5th, 2012 at 5:28 AM
Title: Re: Reading suggestions about the history of Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
It might sound strange, but the books you have listed at the start are practically all there is. Or, at least I could not find anything more, although I did not do a very thorough search. There are surely some essays here and there.

As for the book Wellsprings of the Great Perfection, it's a nice collection of legendary history, but that's all it is. Not many teachings in it either.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 4th, 2012 at 11:11 PM
Title: Dzogchen Seminar and Rushen in Hungary
Content:
Astus wrote:
HUNGARY: BUDAPEST & BAKONY

Dzogchen Seminar
Friday May 11 - Sunday 13th evenings
Sambhala Centre: Neduwa

Outer Rushen Retreat
Ráktanya Cottage near Hárskút in the Bakony mountain area
Monday  May 14th  -Thursday May 24th

This Rushen has become the best opportunity for Dzogchen practise scheduled in Europe. For those who have neither the experience nor the fortitude for the outer, the inner rushen can be practised. But the Bakony mountains with their deciduous forest provide an unexcelled sun-filled user-friendly environment for the outer rushen retreat. Everyone who attends will have had the Dzogchen pointing out instruction.

Contact:
Tibor Hendry
email: mailto:sambhala@elender.hu
website: http://www.tibet.hu " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tibetet Segítõ Társaság Sambhala Tibet Központ
Tibet Support Association Sambhala Tibet Center

source: http://www.keithdowman.net/diary/index.htm " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 30th, 2012 at 5:13 PM
Title: Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?
Content:
Aemilius said:
It is not like that, understanding of history is important, it is valuable for understanding the Dharma.

Astus wrote:
History is not an easy concept. You propose "history" as the exploits of different ruler classes, and not as the history of all humans. Of course, it would be a lot more complicated to consider the day to day lives of peasants, artisans, scholars, monks and everyone else. In China there were several monasteries established and supported by the local people, and separately there were special state sponsored monasteries. The proportion of local and state monasteries changed throughout the history of Chinese Buddhism based on the strength of the central government and its willingness to take control of religious life. It is very much an exaggeration to say that Buddhism could flourish only with strong state support. In fact, those who were dependent on the dynasty could also fall with them. Buddhism in the West spread so far since the 19th century without state support and exists without it quite well.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 30th, 2012 at 4:26 AM
Title: Re: Online Zen Buddhist Temple
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't know how you imagine an online Zen temple. What should be clear, is that a temple is a place of religious service. People go there to get something. Most of the time rituals. Even in a Zen temple. It can also be a place of worship, as it usually houses a buddha statue, sutras, and occasionally relics. Temples also have at least one priest to do the services. Question is then, are you a priest, or do you know one to serve in the online temple? Another function of temples is community life. The online form of community life is found in forums, chatrooms and networking sites. Are you planning to have that too?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2012 at 7:52 PM
Title: Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is no need to talk about the rise of nations and countries if it were simply a matter of warfare. We could say as well that those who waged war were criminals with heightened greed for power and little care for others beyond themselves and their clan, family and friends. The ruling class is a minority living on others, with the idea that they protect the people from other such parasites. We can also say that a king comes in exchange for smaller thugs, thus "peace" is achieved on a larger territory. But it's simply not true that there are nations born from such power struggles. The actual people, the majority, stays at the same place, while rulers and dynasties change. A king unifies people, gradually spreading a single culture and language within the conquered territory. Such events are not necessary at all. People can continue living without others pretending to be their protectors. Why? Because it's not the protectors feeding and housing them but the other way around.

Buddhism could spread fine throughout India, Central and South Asia, and the Far East without any single ruler forcing it on others. Other large religions have different history as we all know. If there is anything good to be learnt from the history of Europe is that it's a lot better to stop fighting each other and start to cooperate without forcing your values on others. That's the idea of the Union. It is a new turn after all the Julius Caesars, Napoleons and Hitlers. It is also a reason why death penalty is banned in the whole EU.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 26th, 2012 at 3:13 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are
Content:
Kunga Lhadzom said:
Have you read The Precious Treasury of the Basic Space of Phenomena  by Longchenpa Rabjam ?

I'm starting to feel a real need for direction and a teacher that can help me.   I put off looking for any other teacher other than the
one I've had all these years....even though he dosn't teach anything...only when I ask him a question.....but I don't care about empowerments, initiations, ritual, etc anymore.....I rarely practice anything....I feel like a misfit.

Can Longchenpa be my teacher or do I need a living Dzogchen teacher ?   Or can my Sakya teacher do the same thing for me that

ChNN can ?

Astus wrote:
Vajrayana is more than just a single book or a single teacher. While you may stick to one Living master and follow his programme of training, if you first or at the same time want to study the written teachings, you better do it in a circumspect way. That is, familiarise yourself with the different Buddhist doctrines (Abhidharma, sutras, Madhyamaka, Yogacara, Tantra) in a gradual and systematic fashion. You may only want Dzogchen, but without an established knowledge of Buddhism in general, people are prone to misunderstand many things, because they don't have the appropriate frame of reference, so they just read the teachings according to their own mundane views.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 25th, 2012 at 6:38 PM
Title: Re: "Myth busting" the Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
We believe in past events, although they don't exist. The reason we think there is a past is our memory, which is only a matter of mental functioning. We also find explanation in "past events" for our present situation.

The same works with any "uncommon" beings. We don't see them out there as we do people, but there are other forms of experience we have. We can also identify effects to relate to those beings. And then we can also ask why it is Guanyin and not Jesus, why Vairocana and not Allah? From a Buddhist perspective, all of them exists, but in different realms and with different functions. Bodhisattvas are enlightened beings, gods are not.

Materialists like to say that it's all in people's minds. But aren't interpretations and explanations are all mental creations? Why some people get better and some don't? Materialists believe it's all about biology, but the scientists have not discovered the cause yet. That's a big faith in research, and they can show many results of research to prove their point. So, should we try to prove that there are invisible beings throughout the galaxy? Absurd.

What the difficulty is for modern people is that they have little idea of the existence of the mind and the mental realms. They are taught that there is only matter and everything is made of matter. So they become ignorant of their own mind and their own perception of the world. Meditation teaches people to become aware of it. However, old views and old habits die hard.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 25th, 2012 at 3:48 PM
Title: Re: Waitress asked to prostitute her self or loose bennetits
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is legal to be a prostitute in Germany. That means if they have an official job they are entitled to certain benefits. What it doesn't mean is that anyone has to be a prostitute. It's only one option. And unlike in many other countries, it is an option within an appropriate legal frame. Not so many countries count prostitution among acceptable jobs.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 25th, 2012 at 5:41 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment/Knowing What You Are
Content:
Astus wrote:
Following the logic of the Brahmajala Sutta, these teachings - just like most of the other spiritual and religious doctrines - come from certain meditative experiences. So, instead of the common mindset people follow, some find for themselves an alternative consciousness to identify with. The eight dhyanas and the many heavens of the three worlds are all fine descriptions of these possible points of self-view. So we find that she talks about a playful god imagining everything. Well, there are such gods who just play around creating things for their own pleasure in Buddhist cosmology, they live on the second highest heaven of the desire-realm. A lot more serene and splendid than this human world. But it's not as good as the first dhyana and related heavens. And then, of course, nirvana is not like any heaven at all. Because as long as one finds a "perfect mind", a "divine consciousness", or anything similar, that is still attachment, that is still impermanent, the realm of samsara.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2012 at 4:33 PM
Title: Re: Suggest Ch'an Reading
Content:
Astus wrote:
As mentioned before and can't be emphasised enough, it's important to have an understanding of Mahayana first to see the appropriate context for Chan teachings. "Mahayana Buddhism: The Doctorial Fuondations" by Paul Williams should cover the basics. But there is a distinct teaching called Chan, although this becomes very confusing since in China (and Korea, and Vietnam) almost everyone is a Chan monk/teacher in a Chan temple/monastery. It's become a common name for anything Buddhism there. So, to find out what Chan actually stands for, can be tricky, as different teachers say different things. Hsuan-hua's Chan is not exactly like Sheng-yen's Chan, and the Chan of Hsing-yun (Fo Guang Shan) and Wei-chueh (Chung Tai Shan) are also different.

For an introduction to Chan, however strange it may sound, is Robert Buswell's translation of the works of Bojo Jinul (a Korean master), who combined the teachings of Zongmi (in English on his teachings of Chan see "Zongmi on Chan), Yongming ("Yongming Yanshou's Conception of Chan in the Zongjing Lu"), Dahui ("Swampland Flowers: The Letters And Lectures of Zen Master Ta Hui"), and the teachings of the Huayan school (Entry Into the Inconceivable: An Introduction to Hua-Yen Buddhism) in the book "Tracing back the radiance: Chinul's Korean way of Zen".

Or, if you are not yet up for intensive studying, and want to go to the essential things, there is this online book http://www.vzmla.org/file/Chan.pdf (PDF) by Ven. Jian Liao. Another highly recommended and short reading are the http://hsuyun.budismo.net/en/dharma/index.html from Ven. Hsu Yun, especially his http://hsuyun.budismo.net/en/dharma/chan_sessions1.html and http://hsuyun.budismo.net/en/dharma/chan_sessions2.html.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2012 at 3:19 PM
Title: Re: "Applied" Zen: Ginny Whitelaw on Leadership
Content:
Wesley1982 said:
Zen should have a practical application to everyday life.

Astus wrote:
Buddhism has all the practical applications with moral guidance, meditation training, and wisdom. But, one can use it in everyday life when and if one has the experience and understanding of the Dharma. It's not like applied chemistry where people can simply moisturise their face as a result of extensive research. The teaching of the Buddha changes people, and that change in one's views and acts is the application. More compassion, more peace, less frustration, less anger. More giving, less greed.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2012 at 4:38 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist opinions about the Historical Jesus
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jesus (historical or not) is important for two kinds of people: Christians and anti-Christians. Buddhists are none of the two.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2012 at 2:20 AM
Title: Re: "Applied" Zen: Ginny Whitelaw on Leadership
Content:
Astus wrote:
With the Zen of "go beyond yourself", "be in the moment", "big mind", "focus on one thing", "be one with it" and such slogans, they could train kamikaze pilots. How is this relevant to the bodhisattva spirit? A fake emptiness is nihilism. Nihilist leaders, well, what is that good for? They should learn compassion and love, not samurai attitude.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2012 at 7:52 PM
Title: Re: Who was this Bodhidharma character?
Content:
Astus wrote:
One of the greatest questions:



或庵曰、西天胡子、因甚無髭。
Wakuan said, "Why has the Western Barbarian no beard?"


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2012 at 2:56 PM
Title: Re: Who was this Bodhidharma character?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The Bodhidharma film (English in subtitles): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kOvLb4YnRI " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2012 at 4:34 AM
Title: Re: Who was this Bodhidharma character?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Historically there is nothing certain about Bodhidharma himself, except that we can be quite sure he is not the founder of any Chan lineage nor even Chan teachings. Based on what could be found about Huike and related Buddhist teachers, that there was a Lankavatara school where they lectured on that sutra. The connection between the group of Bodhidharma and Huike to the teachers of East Mountain - Daoxin and Hongren, the first originators of Chan - was made later, after the death of Shenxiu (who was the first famous Chan teacher in China, but not yet identified as "Chan"). Practically, Bodhidharma became a mythological figure with many stories created throughout the centuries, until it reached the form as we have it today around the 10th century.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2012 at 5:54 PM
Title: Re: does shikantaza lead to equanimity and insight
Content:
Astus wrote:
Shikantaza is not a meditation practice as generally understood in Buddhism, it is not about developing concentration nor about gaining insight. It is being buddha. Practically, however, it takes time to reach the point where one can actually manage for even a short time doing just sitting, so there are preliminary practices taught in most communities, like counting and watching breath.

This teaching by Keizan is a good guide for Soto style zazen: http://www.wwzc.org/translations/zazenYojinki.htm


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2012 at 10:01 PM
Title: Re: The permanence of enlightenment
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here is a Chan story discussing impermanence and permanence of enlightenment.

Unknown said:
A monk asked Dasui: "When the great fire at the end of the aeon rages through, and the whole universe is destroyed, is this destroyed or not?" Dasui said: "Destroyed." The monk asked: "Then it goes along with that?" And Dasui said: "It goes along with that."
Later, a monk asked Longji the same question: "When the great fire at the end of the aeon rages through, and the whole universe is destroyed, is this destroyed or not?" Longji said: "Not destroyed." The monk asked: "Well, why is it not destroyed?" Longji said: "Because it’s the same as the universe."


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2012 at 5:19 AM
Title: Re: Who is the True Master?
Content:
Wesley1982 said:
What the quote is saying that the mind must overcome its own hurdles? . .

Astus wrote:
It's saying that it's one's own decision to dwell on thoughts or not. That's what makes the difference between host and guest, master and slave.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2012 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: Who is the True Master?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The true master is not somebody or something who leads to awakening. It is the awakened mind itself.

http://eng.buddhapia.com/_Service/_ContentView/ETC_CONTENT_2.ASP?pk=0001354172&sub_pk=&clss_cd=0002200682&top_menu_cd=0000000057&menu_cd=&menu_code=0000008421,

"It is mind that can free mind. It is also mind that hinders itself, saying, "This can't be done." What tells you this are the thoughts that were input in the past. It's these thoughts, which over eons have accumulated within you, that are the source of what is sometimes called defilements and delusions. These thoughts have accumulated within you one after another and will eventually manifest one by one, according to circumstances. How, then, can you free yourself from these thoughts? If your mind can leap over these thoughts, everything will be fine. You have the ability to do this, but most people don't make the effort to use it."


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2012 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: Innovation in North American Zen
Content:
kirtu said:
This is what happens when you have people deemed leaders who have shallow realization.

Astus wrote:
Not really. It is a religious hubris to believe that just because one has strong faith/deep realisation, that makes the person superhuman and perfect in everything. Enlightenment doesn't qualify anyone to drive a train or govern an organisation.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2012 at 7:42 PM
Title: Who is the True Master?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ultimately, Buddha is the pure Mind that resides in each individual. The true master is the Mind that allows one to listen, for example, to a lecture. Mind is the master of existence. Without Mind, nothing can exist.
(Chan (Chinese Zen), p 24)

So, it is said, “Once we reach our Pure Mind, there we are.” When we finally find our home, we meet our Source, the true Master, and the generator of our life. By finding and living from our Pure Mind, we are no longer lost and cease to exist in the world of ego and delusion. We can finally begin to live from our own free will. This is what we mean when we speak of being “liberated.”
(Essence of Life, p 6)

To really make progress in Zen or spiritually, we need to find and operate from our true Master, the Pure Mind. By finding our Master, we become the conscious maker of our thoughts and life conditions. Until we meet our Master, we never really know who we are and thus, will continually fail to recognize that we are entirely responsible for the conditions and quality of our life.
(Essence of Life, p 13)

For this reason, practitioners need to learn that thoughts and emotions are merely tools—servants of the Mind. The Mind is our true Master. This is a very important Zen principle.
(Essence of Life, p 17)

When we know and learn to follow our true Master, we are on the road to enlightenment. We no longer follow faulty thoughts, circumstances, or negative emotions because we know that such things are fleeting—they come and they go. When we understand this, then we are the true Master. As the Master, we know that every aspect of daily life is nothing more than a product of the Mind. By practicing Zen, we learn to use thoughts as the servants of the Mind. Thoughts should be trained to arise and respond only as we, the Master, dictates. Hence, we are the true Masters of our Mind, thoughts, and life.
(Essence of Life, p 60)

Quotes from http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=7757


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2012 at 4:42 PM
Title: Re: Question about Zen School
Content:
Huifeng said:
But, as is probably well known on this Forum already, my perspective on "Zen" is not the usual Western (American?) one.

Astus wrote:
Things get changed in translation, like the word Zen.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 13th, 2012 at 4:25 PM
Title: Re: zen daily life
Content:
Astus wrote:
Hope and fear, wish and worry, these are emotional troubles. But thinking about past and future events are just thoughts. Walking down the street, if one has no knowledge and perception of the direction, it's called being lost.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 13th, 2012 at 6:43 AM
Title: Re: zen daily life
Content:
seeker242 said:
What exactly is the "buddha mind"? Does "Buddha mind" have a need to go trudging through past and projecting into the future? Why does the mind go trudging into the past and projecting into the future to begin with? Is it not grasping that causes that very activity to begin with? Why would a mind with no grasping need to conjure up the past or make some ideas about the future?

Astus wrote:
Buddha-mind is the fundamental knowing awareness that is empty of all substances but full of all functions. Thoughts about past, present and future things are all workings of normal thinking, otherwise one cannot either eat or shit, not to mention more complex deeds. What makes the difference between freedom and bondage is whether there is attachment to reified views about self and objects or not.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 13th, 2012 at 5:42 AM
Title: Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jisahn108,

Anyone can call him/herself a Zen teacher and claim whatever lineage they like. And if you say that he has lied about being an heir to this and that master, OK, that is bad. Unless, as I said before, you look at it as a skilful means to attract students to Buddhism.

"But real insight, call it zen or otherwise, has a literal gut aspect, and neither lynch, his heirs, or his ever changing series of orders, titles, colleges, seminaries, centers, monks or teachers seem totally digestable."

So what is that "real insight" you are missing?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 12th, 2012 at 9:30 PM
Title: Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice
Content:
Astus wrote:
The Pure Land doctrines were never against to meditative practices as far as I know.

Huseng said:
I'm not saying this.

I'm saying Pure Land ideology discourages meditation. It is unnecessary if you believe post-mortem Amitabha plucks you out of the sea of suffering. In that case, why bother trying to master the fourth jhana?

Astus wrote:
Most of the Pure Land teachers, especially outside Honen's heirs, teach the combined use of self-power and other-power. One works on oneself in order to gain a higher birth within the Pure Land, since there are 9 different levels explained by the sutras. Please check this topic: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=5650 (Seosan was an outstanding Zen teacher of 16th century Korea).


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 12th, 2012 at 7:09 AM
Title: Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice
Content:
Huseng said:
In my experience it is mostly Chan practitioners who hold such views. Many Chan practitioners also simultaneously do Nianfo practices as well, though they may not see it as a means to being reborn in the pure land.
This is actually necessary, otherwise if you believe that post-mortem Amitabha saves you from all your suffering, then there is no point to sitting on a meditation cushion for years attempting to achieve liberation. Better to just recite the Nianfo and feel content in having a saviour.
I suspect that is part of the reason why in Chinese Buddhism not many people seriously meditate or only do so sporadically (or not at all). If you believe Amitabha will save you, then there is little pressing need to cultivate yourself in meditation.
Thich Nhat Hanh's idea is appropriate to Chan practice as it encourages realistic practice rather than discouraging it. Pure Land practice as it is normally advocated (rebirth in the Pure Land due to Amitabha's grace) negates all need for meditation and yogic attainment.

Astus wrote:
The Pure Land doctrines were never against to meditative practices as far as I know. In fact, there are a great number of methods within the area of Pure Land praxis. The wish to be born in the Western Land of Peace and Bliss is not contrary to working on the bodhisattva path in this life, but they are actually the very same path. There are differences between teachers and groups in terms of what they emphasise, but under the banner of the Pure Land school you can find both hermits with unshakeable samadhi and common men with little understanding. And this is fulfilling the Mahayana idea of saving all sentient beings, regardless of their capacity for wisdom, meditation and meritorious deeds, as the Pure Land teachings address both high and low.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 12th, 2012 at 6:58 AM
Title: Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice
Content:
Lazy_eye said:
I think this question has been asked somewhere before -- but isn't rebirth in the Pure Land more or less analogous to the non-returner stage? That might give some added weight to TNH's interpretation, since being a non-returner (anagami) is defined in terms of mind state and not by some set of external circumstances. I mean, ultimately the task at hand has nothing to do with being in this place or that; it's about purification of  mind.

Astus wrote:
It is not like an anagami for two reasons. Anagamis are sravakas and not bodhisattvas. Those who are born in the Pure Land don't automatically possess any attainment beyond what they have already achieved before their birth, but they have to practise themselves there on the path of the bodhisattva in order to reach full liberation.
What is meant by being similar to a bodhisattva on the level of irreversibility (avaivartika) is that those born in the Pure Land will definitely attain buddhahood without any chance of falling back from the bodhisattva path.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2012 at 7:54 PM
Title: Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch
Content:
Astus wrote:
jisahn108,

OK, we can say that while Lynch believes lineage is important, he doesn't have any solid support for his claim of transmission. From this we could infer that he tries to deceive people, or he simply makes use of the lineage idea to make his teachings more attractive. The view that Lynch is suspicious or wrong is based on at least two preconceptions: lineage qualifies a teacher, and Lynch has evil intentions by creating a lineage for himself. As McRae's second Rule of Zen Studies says, “Statements of lineage identity and “history” were polemical tools of self-assertion, not critical evaluations of chronological fact”.
So if we put aside lineage as relevant and don't assume Lynch has sinister goals in being a teacher, what is left is to look at the teachings he actually spreads.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2012 at 4:44 PM
Title: Re: zen daily life
Content:
Astus wrote:
Taking the "awareness of the present" as the meaning of Zen is a common mistake. The present is no more relevant than the past or the future. What one should realise and keep is the buddha-mind, the mind without grasping, without self. This is no different from what is called the wisdom of selflessness and emptiness.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2012 at 6:29 AM
Title: Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch
Content:
Astus wrote:
jisahn108,

This is the history of Zen lineages repeating all over again. Seung Sahn's lineage is only a little less problematic since he was a monk and came from Korea. Seongcheol, former head of the Jogye Order, had no lineage of his own, and it was not a problem. Gyeongheo, reformer of Korean Zen from whom modern teachers claim succession, did not state a transmission for himself, so others came up with one later. Now that the situation is a lot closer and the sources are in English, faults with a transmission history can be more obvious. But, for instance, can you check in any way Master Jinje's lineage (Gyeongheo 경허 (鏡虛), Hyewol 혜월 (慧月), Unbong 운봉 (雲峰), Hyanggok  향곡 (香谷)), who is the current head of Jogye? Unless you know Korean and have access to the relevant sources, it's not really possible. So, as I said before, it is not the lineage that defines a teacher, but the teaching. Lineage is used not to guarantee any kind of quality, but to promote oneself. And that's what happens in Lynch's case.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2012 at 4:10 AM
Title: Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice
Content:
Astus wrote:
The meaning of the mind only teaching is that all phenomena are mental phenomena, thus the concepts of inside and outside are mere terms. So speaking of Pure Land being inside or outside of the mind is pointless. That's it in brief.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 10th, 2012 at 4:36 AM
Title: Re: Thich Nhat Hanh, Pure Land, & Zen practice
Content:
Astus wrote:
I find that the view of a mind only Pure Land is either for non-believers who cannot accept anything beyond their current world view, or for those with faith who can also understand the connection between mind and phenomena. But in the first case, there is little meaning of calling it a Pure Land practice.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 6th, 2012 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist cosmology and the problem of the infinite task
Content:
Astus wrote:
If such reasoning held any sense, it would be actually true that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_and_the_Tortoise#Achilles_and_the_tortoise. However, in the above argument I see the flaw that it assumes one should go from an infinitely far away time to the present one, while actually where one is is indeed the present time, and it took no effort to reach it, since it was never away.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 6th, 2012 at 5:17 AM
Title: Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jikan,

I agree that that part could go on the negative side regarding Lynch. But what I am asking for is that before rejecting the whole person and his school, it would be only fair and sensible to actually look at what he talks about. It does not refute the Buddha that he was not from the brahmin caste, nor does it refute Lynch that there was a disagreement between him and his teacher. It is nothing more really than clinging to a mostly irrelevant point. Buddhist teachers - whatever lineage or tradition it is - should be measured by their Dharma, since that is what actually matters. So if people feel like criticising or defending Lynch, they should do that based on the right arguments. And not because it makes a difference for Lynch, since I assume it does not, but it makes this topic and this discussion board a lot more sensible, sane, and transparent place, not to mention that for refuting or proving a teaching requires some effort on the part of the members.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 6th, 2012 at 4:43 AM
Title: Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch
Content:
jisahn108 said:
But if someone says they teach "Zen", then they should have credentials to allow them to do this. These will vary school to school, teacher to teacher. But generally its not unreasonable to expect them to have at least 15 years of practice experience, and certainly unequivocal authorization of their teacher or teachers. This isn't just "bureaucracy." This is the nature of the entire Zen and Buddhist system going back millenia. And this is true for many other spiritual and esoteric traditions. It's master to pupil.

If a person LIES about what there credentials are - well that's it, game over. I don't care what they say - it's based in manipulation and deceit. frak it. Go somewhere else. Next, please.

Also, there are a lot of Zen stories about how two students give the same response and one has "it" and one doesn't. "The tongue has no bone." Nor do a few words on a page. You have to know people by their deeds, their presence, and the patterns of behavior they leave in their wake. I say Lynch's are not very orderly, wise, or clear.

Astus wrote:
Credentials going back to millennia, that is no more than a myth. The whole lineage idea started with the goal to convince others of one's superior position, and lineages were forged again and again according to one's personal needs. Also, even if a new lineage starts up, there is zero guaranty that it will be maintained according to the founder's intentions even in the second generation, not to mention the third and those coming after it. On the other hand, it gives a fine excuse to abuse power, as it did happen again and again. It also doesn't stop anyone to spread adharma. So what is its worth?

There are Zen stories, sure. But first of all, stories are just what they are, neither facts nor proofs. And when there is something mystical beyond the comprehension of those poor uninitiated people, that is the point where it starts to stink. What qualifies people are their words and deeds, I agree. And there is not much room left then for ambiguous tales on who has one eye and who hasn't.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 5th, 2012 at 4:58 PM
Title: Re: Zen meditation and Right Concentration
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is a good question. What makes one see the nature of mind? The so called myriad practices are useful for sure in this case. The direct cause, however, is vipashyana meditation, as far as the gradual path is concerned. But in the case of Zen, there is directly pointing to the nature of mind, immediately severing conceptual attachments. Even what appears to be meditation is nothing but abiding not on a single thought, that is non-dwelling and no-thought. But, to put it back into the normal gradual context, this is simply the final level of vipashyana, prajnaparamita itself.

Still, it is not easy to find a teacher who actually instructs in seeing the nature. Most of them are just lost in techniques like sitting, bowing, contemplating a phrase, etc.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 4th, 2012 at 9:47 PM
Title: Re: Zen meditation and Right Concentration
Content:
Astus wrote:
seeker242,

I'm not saying that concentration in its common form is pointless. But it is not the concentration taught within the context of (high class) Zen, like the Platform Sutra. There are meditation teachers who even go in details about dhyanas, like Rev. Cheng Kuan's http://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/displayimage.php?album=102&pid=85#top_display_media. And if you look at my first post here, I've referred to all the different methods there are. But, and this I find important, the Chan way is about seeing the nature of mind and not the myriad practices. It doesn't mean they can't complement each other, or that one has to choose between them. However, unless it is about directly realising the nature of mind, it is not specifically Zen.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 4th, 2012 at 4:35 PM
Title: Re: Zen meditation and Right Concentration
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is the common practice of concentration where one focuses on a single thing, that is not what Huineng talks about. The meaning of concentration in the Platform Sutra is being free from phenomena. It says in the fifth chapter: "Not being confused inwardly is 'concentration.' --- The original nature is naturally pure, in a natural state of concentration. Confusion arises merely because states are seen and attended to. If the mind remains unconfused when any state is encountered, that is true concentration." This kind of concentration is not developed by any means but it is the natural state of buddha-mind. So in the fourth chapter Huineng says, "this Dharma-door of mine, from the past onwards, has been established from the first with no-thought as its doctrine, no-mark as its substance, and no-dwelling as its basis." Obviously, the common practice of concentration is a form of dwelling on a mark with a maintained thought.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 3rd, 2012 at 10:52 PM
Title: Re: Zen meditation and Right Concentration
Content:
Astus wrote:
Right concentration is "samyak samadhi", in Chinese 正定 (zheng ding), while it is in the different dhyanas where "chan" is used (1st dhyana, 2nd dhyana, etc. - 初禪、二禪), however, this is not the meaning of the word as it is used for the Chan/Zen school, but only a common misunderstanding. In fact, Zen doesn't have much to do with meditation practice itself.

See the fourth chapter of the Platform Sutra on the subject of concentration (samadhi 定) and wisdom (prajna 智): http://www2.fodian.net/world/2008_04.html.

"Good Knowing Advisors, there are those who teach people to sit looking at the mind and contemplating stillness, without moving or arising. They claim that it has merit. Confused men, not understanding, easily become attached and go insane. There are many such people. Therefore you should know that teaching of this kind is a great error."


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 3rd, 2012 at 6:46 PM
Title: Re: Two Books by Ven Jian Liao
Content:
Astus wrote:
"What is pure Mind? The Master says: “I am speaking to you, and you are listening to me. The capability to listen without discriminating, without the intervention of interpretation or judgment, is a capability of pure Mind.”
If the Mind is judgmental and discriminating, then it can no longer be called pure Mind. It is the Mind of the ordinary person because it is controlled by attachments. Take for example the phenomenon of hearing. Some can hear sound and some cannot. The deaf are aware that they do not hear sound. This knowing is an immutable characteristic of Mind. The ability to be aware of the absence of sound in the deaf is no different from the ability to be aware of the presence of sound in normal people. This ability is inherent in all human beings. Adults as well as children have it. This Mind is formless, non-discriminative and it has neither beginning nor end. It can neither be created nor annihilated. All possess the same Mind, yet, due to distortion, the oneness of Reality fragments into duality. Therefore, different things are heard. This means that even though the same words are heard, the discriminating Mind interprets the words differently. Therefore, each one forms different notions and concepts based upon these very same words because of conditioning to a certain way of thinking. What is manifested by pure Mind (Truth) is compared to what has been altered by personal judgment or interpretation (subjective reality)."
(Jian Liao: Chan)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 3rd, 2012 at 4:08 AM
Title: Two Books by Ven Jian Liao
Content:
Astus wrote:
The basic purpose of meditation is to help one to recognize the nature of the Mind, to master the Mind and to become cognizant of the clarity of the Mind. A Mind that is not mastered is a Mind full of worries. Worries are created by an untamed Mind—thinking of what should not be thought of, or, vice-versa, not thinking of what should be thought of. Consequently, life cannot be lived to the fullest unless the Mind is tamed and mastered.

PDF's:
http://www.vzmla.org/file/Chan.pdf
http://www.vzmla.org/file/Essence_of_Life.pdf


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 2nd, 2012 at 7:55 PM
Title: Re: Buddhism and space
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nagarjuna says it all.

Know therefore that space
Is neither existent nor non-existent
Neither a characteristic nor characterisable
And that the other five are the same as space.
(MMK 5.7, tr. B.C. Bocking)

Therefore, space is not a thing; 
it is not a non-thing; 
it is not something characterized; 
it is not a characteristic. 
The other five elements too are similar to space.
(MMK 5.7, tr. S. Batchelor)


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 2nd, 2012 at 5:03 PM
Title: Re: Question: Errors on Buddhist Scriptures
Content:
Astus wrote:
The Bible has an immensely larger importance in Christianity than a single sutra in Buddhism. If you look at any of the canons - and there are many - you find many teachings of different sorts. Also, besides the Theravada claim for Pali, there are no sutras in the language of the Buddha, but different translations. And when it comes to English, it's another translation. However, while translators can make mistakes, it's not really the point. Buddhism is more than just texts. Plus, if you have doubts about a certain scripture, you can investigate it, once you have the necessary knowledge for that of course.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2012 at 11:30 PM
Title: Re: Is My Job Wrong Livelihood?
Content:
DarwidHalim said:
Everything is relative. Relative to your motivation.

Astus wrote:
Not exactly. Murder does not have good motivation, neither does war, theft, etc. So you get the ten wrong deeds of body, speech and mind. And it is quite misleading to say that enlightened beings are not affected by karma. It is intentional act that generates merits, with wisdom one makes infinite merits and so the form-body becomes. While it is stated by some texts that all the events in Shakyamuni's life were a teaching, a display, it was the show of causality regarding the illusion-body of a perfectly enlightened one, not to mention bodhisattvas and arhats.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2012 at 7:57 PM
Title: Re: Is My Job Wrong Livelihood?
Content:
DarwidHalim said:
In any situation, there is no absolute right and absolute wrong.

Astus wrote:
Buddhism has quite clear ethical standards, with its basis in non-violence and compassion. Karma is not negotiable nor avoidable. Excuses only strengthen ignorance about it.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2012 at 7:11 AM
Title: Re: Is My Job Wrong Livelihood?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Two explicitly mentioned business among the others in the list of forms of wrong livelihood are dealing with weapons and poisons. Both are meant to harm beings. So, even if one is not a butcher or murderer himself, creating and selling means of murder is a type of wrong livelihood. That makes the case of training soldiers for battle another form of wrong livelihood. Note, however, that wrong livelihood is not equal to actually doing something evil, it is not the same as generating bad karma, especially as long as one does not condone and agree with evil acts.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 29th, 2012 at 9:44 PM
Title: Re: Incest
Content:
Astus wrote:
Incest is an immoral act in Buddhism, and it is part of the third lay vow that one does not engages in such an act.

This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "There are these two bright qualities that safeguard the world. Which two? Conscience & concern (for the results of unskillful actions). If these two bright qualities did not guard the world, there would be no recognition of 'mother' here, no recognition of 'mother's sister,' 'uncle's wife,' 'teacher's wife,' or 'wife of those who deserve respect.' The world would be immersed in promiscuity, like rams with goats, roosters with pigs, or dogs with jackals. But because these two bright qualities guard the world, there is recognition of 'mother,' 'mother's sister,' 'uncle's wife,' 'teacher's wife,' & 'wife of those who deserve respect.'"

Those in whom concern & conscience are not always found have strayed from the bright root, are headed to birth & death. But those in whom concern & conscience are rightly established always, who are mature in the holy life: they are calm, their further becoming ended.
( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/iti/iti.2.028-049.than.html#iti-042 )


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 26th, 2012 at 2:23 AM
Title: Re: zen daily life
Content:
Astus wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhiyi, the actual founder of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiantai, taught meditation in the form of Four Samadhis ( http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/bdoor/archive/nutshell/teach73.htm#t733, http://www.tientai.net/lit/mksk/v2outline.htm ) that consists of sitting, walking, sitting and walking, neither sitting nor walking. The fourth of this means practice without restrains, practising in all circumstances. Zen is very much like this fourth samadhi, while other methods - not just sitting and walking meditation, but sutra recitation, prostrations, confession, etc. - are preliminaries, gradual and even unnecessary (or rather optional).

What does Zen practice mean? It is simply abiding nowhere, not grasping concepts and emotions, but also not rejecting them. It is working and functioning without attachment, so it is the prajnaparamita of every bodhisattva. It is the manifestation of buddha-mind, the true nature of this very mind reading now, without being hooked up on ideas of self and other. Zen is no different from life itself, it simply drops all illusions about what life should and should not be.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 26th, 2012 at 1:51 AM
Title: Re: Five Mountain Zen Order & Paul Lynch
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm not saying that the FMZO or Lynch is OK or not OK. But questioning their validity on the basis of personal relationships within a Buddhist community is pretty much bureaucratic. Why not ask and analyse if what they actually teach is correct or not? Isn't that what should matter?

A good point by Ven. Chong Go: http://wakeupandlaugh.wordpress.com/2010/08/23/authority-and-transmission/
In the comments, where Lynch mentions the transmission between Ko Bong and Seung Sahn, he replies, "This type of transmission was almost never heard of before the era of the Japanese occupation, and has since basically disappeared."


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 24th, 2012 at 8:22 PM
Title: Re: The Big Fix - Official Trailer
Content:
Astus wrote:
These films always make me think that it's only a conspiracy theory drama and nothing more. I guess it's my prejudice against films versus books.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 22nd, 2012 at 6:59 AM
Title: Re: Zen meditation and Right Concentration
Content:
Astus wrote:
Developing concentration is very beneficial in both inside and outside of Buddhism. That's Right Concentration if you do it in a Buddhist context following the relevant instructions. Zen, while a Buddhist tradition, is a direct path of what is called prajnaparamita, or buddha-nature. In Zen there are no gradual stages - well, there are differences between lineages and teachers within Zen, but let's not go into that right now - but it is about immediately realising the enlightened mind. One can of course, and is advised, to use techniques to develop a certain level of mental peace within Zen, however, that is more of a preliminary practice before one can actually come to the point of doing Zen practice, which is no-practice. So, the two can be related, but they are not the same.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2012 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: essential texts
Content:
Astus wrote:
Generally for Zen you can read classical Zen works (Bodhidharma, Huineng, Mazu, Huangbo, Zongmi, etc.) and basic Mahayana sutras of the tradition like the Vimalakirti, Diamond, Perfect Enlightenment, Shurangama, any of the Prajnaparamita, etc.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2012 at 5:35 PM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Haemin said:
Based on what do you assert this?  I've seen no such problems as this.  I'm a celibate monk and I don't feel jealous toward my non-celibate brothers and sisters in my own order or any other.

Astus wrote:
I assume you know about the incident when the Jogye Order monks took back temples by force from the married clergy after the Japanese left Korea.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2012 at 6:37 AM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Haemin said:
For centuries throughout the Buddhist world, the official pratimoksha has not been the list of rules actually observed by the sangha.  Each tradition, and sometimes individual monasteries, have had their own rules that have actually governed monastic behavior.  I've heard this from monks and nuns from more than one tradition and from scholars as well.  It has also been my own observation over the years.

Astus wrote:
Ordination is about taking up the precepts, and those precepts are the sramanera, bhikshu and bodhisattva vows in the triple ordination system. Thus technically those who participate actually vow to uphold them. Local monastic rules and further vows are only extra. It is OK to say that ordination is mere formality and the reality is different, however, that is the same as saying being a monk is a mere formality too. So perhaps some other definitions are required then.

Haemin said:
How are you defining "contribution to the community"?  Personally, I feel that teaching the Dharma and providing for the spiritual needs of the community (through leading communal holidays, funerals, memorial services, etc...) contributes a great deal to the community.

Astus wrote:
What I meant is that while the cleric does serve the community, his family does not and thus they are a burden on the supporters. Self-supporting monks are a different matter. But again, if a monk earns a living, what makes him a bhikshu, a beggar? It's not that I don't understand the difficulties involved in Western Buddhism, but making money (not to mention having a family) is quite the opposite of renouncing the world and living on donations. It is not true that one can't live on donations in the West, since many unfortunate homeless people do exactly that.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2012 at 2:52 AM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Haemin said:
It isn't a parajika because male Taego clergy aren't required to take a vow of celibacy to begin with. It's only a parajika if you take a vow of celibacy and then break it.  Of course, more traditional orders would most likely not recognize non-celibate Taego clergy as bhikkhu.

Astus wrote:
It is more than just a single vow involved in being non-celibate, like the first four sanghadisesa precepts. It is quite a heavy change in the common Pratimoksha of 250 vows. Also, if we consider that many precepts of the minor vows are not observed because they are outdated, celibacy is one of the few things that can still be upheld. On the other hand, it can be argued that since there are precepts that are irrelevant and generally has not been observed for a long time (e.g. eating only before noon), one could as well say that celibacy is not that important. However, I'm not sure if the laity is OK to support not just a monastic with minimal needs but a whole family or even families who make little contribution to the community.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2012 at 6:41 PM
Title: Re: "Location" of mind in Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Certain late rNying ma pa tantras even go further in localizing the sems and ye shes in the body. Ye shes resides in the heart whereas sems is in the lung."
("The Primordial Basis as Having a Physical Presentation" in The Great Perfection by S.G. Karmay, p 185ff)


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2012 at 5:28 PM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Haemin said:
This is incorrect. I've just confirmed this with the Bishop, Venerable Dr. Jongmae Kenneth Park. The Taego and Jogye orders follow the same pratimoksa (Caturvagga Vinaya of the Dharmaguptaka--which is in use in the Chinese and Vietnamese traditions as well). However, celibacy is optional for men in the Taego Order. There are 250 bhikkhu precepts, 348 bhikkhuni precepts, and 10 samanera precepts. Also, both schools adopted the Indraraja Sutra that contains 10 bodhisattva vows and 48 lesser precepts. Contrary to some misconceptions, the Taego Order does not use bodhisattva vows as the basis of it's monastic ordinations. So there's just that one difference: celibacy.

Astus wrote:
Then it is strange how they can explain committing a parajika offence being acceptable. Although considering that monks can even act as soldiers it is not that outstanding.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2012 at 6:20 PM
Title: Re: Simple question about Pure Lands
Content:
Last Legend said:
Exist and not exist at the same time that's when one has become a complete Buddha.

qweqwe said:
Of course Buddhas live forever!

Astus wrote:
There are four extreme views:
the view of " existence "
the view of " non-existence "
the view of " existence and non-existence "
the view of " neither existence nor non-existence "

However, in common language we use all four, and for the sake of simplicity we can say that the buddhas exist, the pure lands exist, just as humans, animals and others exist. But it's beneficial to understand that the teachings are not meant to be clung to like dead statements but used for the benefit of oneself and others. And when they are not conducive to peace and kindness we know we are doing something wrong.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2012 at 7:59 AM
Title: Re: Self-immolation is not against religious tradition
Content:
Astus wrote:
Self-immolators were listed in collections about outstanding monks in China. It is a very old practice in Buddhism.

Book review: http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=24572


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2012 at 1:45 AM
Title: Re: Why the Buddha banned booze.
Content:
Huseng said:
Maybe what I'm suggesting is only suitable for bodhisattvas with knowledge of skilful means.

It isn't really suitable for śrāvakas who abide by rules for the sake of personal liberation above all else.

Breaking the rules to help others is something bodhisattvas can and often should do. A lot of the literature points to this.

Astus wrote:
I find that sravakas in Mahayana are mostly caricatures of religiously/spiritually immature people. But yes, the Bodhisattva Vinaya Sutra does say what you do.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2012 at 1:42 AM
Title: Re: Why the Buddha banned booze.
Content:
gregkavarnos said:
Okay, if the whole frackin' assembly, including the Buddhas closest students and aids, Arhats, once returners, etc... were incapable of deciding whch precepts should go and which should remain on what basis do us ignoramuses decide?

Astus wrote:
It is quite an assumption that every rule existed right at the death of the Buddha. Rather, there was some development over time, although the basics are pretty uniform in the different Vinayas. By the way, the Pratimoksha explicitly says what are the major and the minor rules.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2012 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: Why the Buddha banned booze.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Buddhism is not exempt for the religious and purist zealots. When someone teaches about how alcohol/meat/etc. is evil and impure on its own, because of being what it is, that is a substantialist and extremist argument. It is another thing that people who care little about the details - i.e. the majority - tend to simplify everything, and it's easier to say not to drink at all and alcohol is bad than allowing alcohol but warning about the bad effects of intoxication. Also it should be noted that drinking is not included in the 10 wrong deeds.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2012 at 1:30 AM
Title: Re: Sutra's
Content:
Astus wrote:
There are many kinds of sutras and different Zen traditions take different sutras as their source. Here is a non-definitive list of those that are available in English.

The common sutras among the different lineages: Vimalakirti Sutra, Diamond Sutra, Lotus Sutra, Avatamsaka Sutra, Nirvana Sutra
Sutras that are important mostly in China and Korea: Perfect Enlightenment Sutra, Shurangama Sutra, Vajrasamadhi Sutra
Treatises of great importance: Mahayana Sraddhotpada Shastra, Mahaprajnaparamita Shastra (partially translated)


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 10th, 2012 at 6:05 PM
Title: Re: What is the Point of Togal?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thanks for the replies, it was very helpful.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 10th, 2012 at 7:04 AM
Title: Re: Uncontrived
Content:
LastLegend said:
I watched a video yesterday that explained to me Zen is one mind if you sit, eat, or walk without being distracted then that is Zen. Zen is meditation in this sense. Meditation is to abandon grasping.

Astus wrote:
Must have been a good video.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 10th, 2012 at 1:37 AM
Title: Re: What is the Point of Togal?
Content:
Jinzang said:
Because of our strong habituation, it is difficult to see though dualism and abide in non-dual awareness. This is true even after the initial opening. So one uses special methods, like the Six Yogas to complement mahamudra or Togal to complement Trekcho. This is why tantra is considered a fast path, because it speeds up the process. Otherwise mahamudra/trekcho would be more or less the same as sutra practice.

Astus wrote:
Interesting. They explain the nature of mind as complete with the three bodies and needs no improvement. Of course, that doesn't mean there is no need for practice. But what is strange to me is that compared to "By not altering it from being as it is, The state of buddhahood is now spontaneously present." and "The conduct is nondoing and the fruition beyond adopting and discarding.", I find that, however natural those visions are, all the techniques and instructions are extraneous. Comparing this to Mahamudra teachings, the Six Yogas can be complementary, but they are not necessary nor are they the next step.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 8th, 2012 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: What is the Point of Togal?
Content:
Jax said:
All Dzogchen "methods" have only one goal:  to enhance and stabilize the presence of Rigpa in experiential consciousness.

Astus wrote:
Then why the methods? Shouldn't abiding in non-dual awareness be sufficient? Just as Garab Dorje's three statements say.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 8th, 2012 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: What is the Point of Togal?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thanks Jax, it's a great summary. So Togal is a (group of) special method(s) to enhance the presence of rigpa, thus strengthening Trekcho?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 8th, 2012 at 8:20 PM
Title: What is the Point of Togal?
Content:
Astus wrote:
What are the reasons for Togal practice? What does it help in? How is it better than, or complement, Trekcho?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 5th, 2012 at 10:20 PM
Title: Re: Complete Works of Sheng Yen
Content:
Astus wrote:
No new translations there in the last few years. Unfortunately, there are quite a few books that are not uploaded there, like those about huatou and mozhao practice.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 29th, 2012 at 1:14 AM
Title: Re: A "Christology" of Amida Buddha
Content:
Astus wrote:
The issue has been resolved by the doctrine of the three bodies (trikaya) long ago.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 27th, 2012 at 6:44 PM
Title: Re: Understanding SHINJIN by Paul Roberts
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here's a short correspondence with Al Bloom on this issue: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1084&start=60#p8252 " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 27th, 2012 at 5:28 AM
Title: Re: How Germany Became Europe's Richest Country
Content:
Astus wrote:
An interesting discussion how people see their and others' country. From my limited perspective, Germany achieved its status through its own people's will to work. I don't really know how it was in Hungary before the second half of the 20th century, but in the Socialist era people learnt how best to evade doing their job and get the highest benefits from the state/government. Tax evasion today is normal, only those few who work for larger (multinational) companies pay the full extent of income tax. Cheating is "normal" in this culture on every level, from school exams to governmental macroeconomic statistics. There is a significant number of the population who turned pensioners at an early age (around their 40s) based on false medical papers, while the full number of pensioners is one third of the whole population (not an unknown problem in Europe of course).

What is the most fascinating of all is that no matter where one lives, there are problems one sees there. And certain other countries always look lot better than one's own. Perhaps about a month ago there was a BBC report on Italian young people wanting to move abroad for better opportunities. I'm sure for those Italians their country is not a wonderful place. On the other hand, for the Romanians who go to Italy for menial jobs and the refugees from Africa it is the land of their dreams.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 24th, 2012 at 1:22 AM
Title: Re: Thich Nhat Hanh: Reading Suggestions?
Content:
pung S said:
Astus, have you read this?  Would you say that this is not only TNH's interpretation of Zen, but also a good look at Vietnamese Zen in general?

Astus wrote:
I have read chapters, but never grasped my attention enough to finish it, so it stays on the shelf. But others may like it very much.

I wouldn't call a single man a good source of looking at a whole country's Buddhism, not to mention that TNH is a very creative and innovative teacher (this is not criticism).


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 23rd, 2012 at 11:50 PM
Title: Re: The myth of the eight-hour sleep
Content:
Astus wrote:
This idea of sleeping in two sets makes sense of midnight prayers/meditations at least.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 23rd, 2012 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Tatsuo said:
So together with Tendaishū, which has also high regards for the Lotus Sutra, more 1/3 of the traditional Buddhists schools consider the Lotus Sutra as their central text. And this without counting in the various Nichiren related "new religions"! So the Lotus Sutra was and still is enormously popular in Japan.

Astus wrote:
It is very interesting how these statistics turned out. Well, so it is then.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 23rd, 2012 at 5:03 AM
Title: Re: Thich Nhat Hanh: Reading Suggestions?
Content:
Astus wrote:
He also has a commentary on the teachings of Linji Yixuan: "Nothing to Do, Nowhere to Go", if you want to look at his way of interpreting Zen.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 23rd, 2012 at 4:03 AM
Title: Re: Thich Nhat Hanh: Reading Suggestions?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm not TNH expert, but in his "The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching" he teaches on many basic Buddhist concepts and shows his way of looking at them.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 22nd, 2012 at 9:51 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Aemilius said:
I am astonished, are the Zen schools then a small minority ?!

Astus wrote:
Zen schools (Soto + Rinzai + Obaku) have about 20,000 temples throughout Japan and 8.7 million followers. But of course, if you compare that to the 128 million population of Japan, it is not so big, only 6.8%. Not to mention that these official numbers don't say much of actual religious practice.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 22nd, 2012 at 8:42 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Tatsuo said:
Where did you get the idea, that Nichiren Buddhism is one of the smaller traditions in Japan?

Astus wrote:
What I meant is that it is among the smaller ones among the big traditional churches. I didn't mean it's like some new religion with a few thousand followers.

Here's some statistics ( http://kaimyo.net/butu/ ):

Shingonshu has 12,000 temples and 13.8 millions followers.
Shinshu has about 20,000 temples and 13.3 million followers.
Sotoshu has 15,000 temples and 6.9 million followers.
Tendaishu has 4,200 temples and 6.9 million followers.
Jodoshu has 8,000 temples and 6.5 million followers.
Nichirenshu has 5,200 temples and 3.3 million followers.

More statistics with all the sub-schools: http://www.kohzansha.com/datalink.html


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 22nd, 2012 at 5:15 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
rory said:
so let's see: ichinen sanzen, somoku jobutsu, sokushin jobutsu all derived from the Lotus Sutra.

Astus wrote:
It is important to make a difference between what are actually stated in the sutra itself, and what are the creations of commentators. For instance, the idea of buddhahood in this body became prominent in Japan and it was argued from two different perspectives using different scriptural sources. Since the Lotus Sutra was already well known in China and the concept of buddhahood in this body was not really used, it's hard to say that it is in the Lotus Sutra, but rather Saicho used the Lotus Sutra to back up this idea.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 22nd, 2012 at 7:27 AM
Title: Re: Natural Ch'an
Content:
Astus wrote:
Never just read. Read with wisdom.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, February 21st, 2012 at 10:08 PM
Title: Re: GigaPedia/Library.nu Shut Down
Content:
Astus wrote:
Copying sutras and other texts have been a major merit making activity among Buddhists. Digital media simply makes it easier to gain merit by spreading the teaching.

You can even roll a prayer wheel from home (Hungarian site, no English, button is at the bottom of the homepage, you can also leave a message above it): http://www.imamalom.hu/ " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 20th, 2012 at 11:30 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Good points Jikan. It is for those reasons that it is often quoted by a large number of teachers in different schools.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 20th, 2012 at 5:34 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
"How can you say that the Lotus Sutra is "not a clear statement of universal Buddha-nature"? This kind of statement can only come from not understanding the text. The fact of Buddhahood as the "final goal" of the Bodhisattva path, which is available to anyone to tread, is THE POINT of the Lotus Sutra. Why it is so important that ALL vehicles are in essence the 1 vehicle is....this makes the whole idea of being a Buddha (Buddha-nature) accessible to all beings."

Do you know a single passage in the sutra where it says that all beings without exception has buddha-nature?
The teaching of the one vehicle means that whoever started practice, whether as a sravaka, pratyekabuddha or bodhisattva, will all eventually attain finally buddhahood. But, this does not include those who have not started on any of the paths, the so called icchantikas, who are without any root of goodness. And this is the difference between saying that there is only one vehicle or every being has buddha-nature.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 20th, 2012 at 2:28 AM
Title: Re: The Dalai Lama's Solution to Overpopulation
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Globally, the growth rate of the human population has been declining since peaking in 1962 and 1963 at 2.20% per annum."
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth#Human_population_growth_rate )

It seems that the largest growth rate is in underdeveloped countries ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Population_growth_rate_world_2011.svg ). So the solution is not really in some form of forced childlessness but proper development both economically and culturally.

BTW, China's "one child policy" results in excessive number of male children, which is not a good thing at all.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 20th, 2012 at 2:06 AM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Noah,

Good. Now we can then turn back to the sutra itself instead of discussing personal matters.

"Then the assembly there all saw the daughter of the nāga king instantly transform into a man, perfect the bodhisattva practices, go to the vimalā world in the south, sit on a jeweled lotus flower, and attain highest, complete enlightenment, become endowed with the thirty-two marks and eighty excellent characteristics, and expound the True Dharma universally for the sake of all sentient beings in the ten directions."

Even before the perfection of the bodhisattva path the naga princess turned into a man. Why? As Shariputra reinterates the five hindrances, "Moreover, the female body has five obstructions. The first is the inability to become a great Brahma. The second is the inability to become Śakra. The third is the inability to become Māra, and the fourth is the inability to become a universal monarch (cakravartin). The fifth is the inability to become a buddha. How can you with your female body quickly become a buddha?" Although it seems that the intention of the sutra is to refute this as a lower view, actually it explicitly says that the naga princess transformed into a man. So it actually confirms it.

In the 23rd chapter it is also said, "If there is any woman who hears and holds to this chapter ‘Ancient Accounts of Bodhisattva Bhaiṣajyarāja,’ she will never be reborn with a female body." Why? Because it considers male body to be better.

On the other hand, in the Vimalakirti Sutra the essentialist view of sex is clearly refuted. "The goddess said, “Śāriputra, if you were able to transform this female body, then all females would also be able to transform themselves. Just as Śāriputra is not female but is manifesting a female body, so are all females likewise. Although they manifest female bodies, they are not female. Therefore, the Buddha has explained that all dharmas are neither male nor female."

The Nirvana Sutra actually talks about how Shakyamuni was also a female buddha, "I also manifest myself in Jambudvipa as a female Buddha. People see this and say that it is strange that a female should attain unsurpassed Enlightenment. The Tathagata, after all, has never once been a female. In order to subdue people, I manifested as a female." And the Nirvana Sutra also points to a transcendental meaning of male and female (after a series of degrading remarks on females), "If one does not know the Buddha-Nature, one cannot be called a man. Why not? Because one does not realise that one has the Buddha-Nature within. Any person who does not realise that he has the Buddha-Nature is a woman. If he does so realise, he is a man. If any woman knows that she has the Buddha-Nature, she is a man."

It is true that the Lotus Sutra promises the attainment of buddhahood to practically everybody. However, it is neither a clear statement of universal buddha-nature, nor is it a proclamation that there are actually buddhas in female form.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, February 19th, 2012 at 10:48 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Will said:
They clarify that "proclaiming and revealing" mean only to one who "upholds" the sutra, through their diligent practices.  The lines above do not mean there is a printed list in the sutra.

Astus wrote:
Good point. Another instance of the repeated statement that the Lotus Sutra is the best sutra. I actually find it interesting how a whole sutra can be mainly about its own praising.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, February 19th, 2012 at 9:55 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Rory,

"In general, all the Dharmas of the Thus Come One, all the sovereign spiritual powers of the Thus Come One, all the secret storehouses of the Thus Come One, all the extremely profound deeds of the Thus Come One are all proclaimed and revealed in this Sutra."

While the sutra says so, it does not actually lists and explains all those things. Also, there are quite a few other Mahayana sutras stating practically the same thing about themselves, to the level that we can say it is a common Mahayana theme.

"The Sutra proclaims that Shakyamuni Buddha is eternal, that the other buddhas are his replica bodies, that all previous paths are replaced by the One Vehicle, that all things are essentially equal, that beings can attain buddhahood."

The idea that all buddhas are eternal are said in other sutras, although it is true that the Lotus Sutra stands out as a major text to re-emphasise the importance of Shakyamuni. The teaching of one vehicle are also found in other sutras, and the universality of buddha-nature is more prominent in the Nirvana Sutra.

"Not just people, animals and even grasses and trees."

The idea of enlightenment of insentient beings is very much a Chinese concept that is unknown to Indian and other Mahayana schools, also not found stated in the sutras, while at the same time it is proclaimed that only sentient beings possess buddha-nature. A longer discussion of this by Robert H. Sharf: http://kr.buddhism.org/zen/koan/Robert_Sharf-e.htm.

"Also it contains the buddhahood of a female, the Dragon King's daughter, so important."

As a matter of fact, before the attainment of buddhahood there happens a transformation into a male bodhisattva. Thus it is not easy to argue from the Lotus Sutra that there can be woman buddhas.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, February 19th, 2012 at 9:24 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Noah,

"Not being critical and letting this sutra just communicate to your heart is the way to take this one, I think."

This could be said about any sutra. One can be devoted to any text, statue, idea, whatever. And it happened and happens quite often. Such faith requires no reason, no arguments, and usually it has none. But that attitude leaves no space to discussion, to criticism, to analysis, thus it is not something debatable on a forum. Of course, debate is only one form of communication, and sharing information does not require it. But, as you are well aware of this, every sutra has a wide range of interpretations. Telling which one is useful or valid needs some comparing and reasoning. The question is whether it remains a calm discussion on confrontation of views, or a heated and even violent repetition of personal remarks. Obviously, the second one leads to nothing good.

"It is a text that spearheaded the transformation of entire societies and cultures of people that had no previous experience with the Dharma."

I can recall no occasion in the history of Buddhism where the Lotus Sutra was the first Buddhist text to be introduced to a culture or that it had a significantly larger influence on a culture than other Buddhist teachings. As a matter of fact, only Nichiren Buddhism emphasises the Lotus Sutra to the level of exclusiveness, while Tiantai and Tendai are more rounded doctrines where they use certain concepts from the Lotus Sutra itself to classify the other teachings. Nichiren Buddhism, however, is only one of the smaller traditions in Japan making it less influential than several other schools.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, February 19th, 2012 at 8:57 PM
Title: Re: Natural Ch'an
Content:
pung S said:
Astus, thanks for the differing translation.  I am not sure if the translation I posted was the one that I read, but it was similar.  The one you provided clears things up a little bit at least.  So, if you know, would it be safe to say that Ven. Hsu Yun changed it when he gave this teaching; or that the translator of the book changed it when it was published?
I was not sure if it had anything to do with "naturalistic" or unrestrained behaviour.  I was thinking more along the lines of what is commonly referred to as "natural talent."  In other words, in this story, was Ling Zhao the Ch'an equivalent of a violin prodigy or a child-athlete?  I am thinking this is not the case.

Astus wrote:
Stories change easily by retelling and occasionally by translating it. Of course, it'd be good to see Xuyun's Chinese original too, if there is any.
No natural talent, only good or bad karma (almost the same). But Zen can be realised by anyone regardless of age. It is only a matter of attitude and circumstances.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 18th, 2012 at 7:51 AM
Title: Re: Natural Ch'an
Content:
Astus wrote:
If we look at the actual Recorded Sayings of Layman Pang the story is a bit different.

居士一日在茅廬裡坐。驀忽云。難。難。難。十碩油麻樹上攤。龐婆云。易。易。易。如下眠床腳踏地。靈照云。也不難。也不易。百草頭上祖師意。 (X69n1336_p0134a18-20)

The Layman was sitting in his thatched cottage one day [studying the sūtras]. "Difficult, difficult," he said; "like trying to scatter ten measures of sesame seed all over a tree." "Easy, easy," Mrs. Pang said; "like touching your feet to the ground when you get out of bed." "Neither difficult nor easy," Ling Zhao said; "on the hundred grass tips, the great Masters' meaning." ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layman_Pang#cite_note-0 )

"Natural Chan", well, a strange concept indeed. But the words "when I'm tired, I eat..." are more like what is in the Records of Linji, and it's a way of expressing the unconcerned and unattached mind, ordinary mind, which is another term for liberation and enlightenment. Nothing to do with "naturalistic" and unrestrained behaviour.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 18th, 2012 at 7:19 AM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
I've been intrigued by the Lotus Sutra ever since I heard of it. For that reason I've read it several times in case I missed something. This was all because of its reputation in East Asian Buddhism. However, on its own I could not find anything that really came through as extraordinary. Basically that is the reason I asked what you and others find in it fascinating. But then we can just say it is not my type of teaching.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 18th, 2012 at 3:38 AM
Title: Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Equality requires a mind that sees all as equals. However, "equality" itself is meaningless. It should be defined the equality of what one talks about. Human relations go to different directions and considering some more important than others comes naturally from that. In secular life there are financial differences, in religious life there are spiritual differences, and in both forms of communities there are political differences. It is an immensely difficult thing to make a community functioning and harmonious. For such functioning humans generally use a hierarchical system where only people in specific positions have the power to make decisions about the community. Leadership could be changed to rules, however, rules require interpreters, and the need of interpretations create again a hierarchy of judges, lawyers, law enforcement, etc. It is an impossible idea to believe that the leaders are enlightened and saintly people.

A possible solution is perhaps a network of small egalitarian communities with properly trained members. Movement between communities is free, but the number of a single community is maximised. This is actually not much different from how Buddhist monasteries developed without any centralised power.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 18th, 2012 at 1:28 AM
Title: GigaPedia/Library.nu Shut Down
Content:
Astus wrote:
News on:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/15/librarynu-book-downloading-injunction_n_1280383.html
http://torrentfreak.com/book-publishers-shut-down-library-nu-and-ifile-it-120215/
http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/16/2802060/library-nu-ifile-it-ebook-piracy-site-shut-down


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 18th, 2012 at 12:33 AM
Title: Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Therefore a bhikkhu ... should not present himself as equal to, nor imagine himself to be inferior, nor better than, another." ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.4.05.irel.html )


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 18th, 2012 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: Are some Buddhists more equal than others?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The majority of the laity care only about the basic religious services, for them the monks function as clergy. Just as in society in general, men are preferred over women, this is reflected in the monastic community. Inequality is generated by the laity, by the society. The few who seek actual spirituality and are rather intellectual people don't take all forms of apparent sanctity at face value. The concept of equality is another thing, mostly a legal matter and such.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 17th, 2012 at 7:42 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Noah,

What you say, is this how you interpret the Lotus Sutra, or is it based on somebody else's teachings? I'm asking this because while you talk about compassion and buddhahood, the concepts in the end don't really match with what I understand as the basics of the bodhisattva path or Mahayana. For instance, how could it be a meaningful truth that there is only one vehicle? How does that make a difference? What is that vehicle about? And I could go on.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 16th, 2012 at 10:01 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Noah,

"It can be seen as an "energy" that is at work for the sole propose of producing Buddhas and Bodhisattvas."

Enlightenment is someone personally realising the ultimate nature of phenomena. It is hard to say that a very subjective experience should be imagined as an im/personal and separate energy creating beings.

In this sutra, the Buddha all but abandons skillful means to preach the truth of Ultimate Reality.

What is that "Ultimate Reality" he preaches about? The sutra doesn't really give an answer.

"It is meant to speak to the heart and be read aloud by like minded individuals to inspire the mind and heart of ultimate practice."

No argument here. It is an inspirational text, much like popular entertainment films with a religious concept.

"the fact that the process of Enlightenment, on a cosmic scale, is something we all are taking part in right now in our practice and, one "day" many millions of "years" from now we may be part of such an assembly"

It sounds very much like that one doesn't have to actually do anything but we are all automatically participants in this massive liberating event which we know practically nothing about.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 13th, 2012 at 9:00 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist response to Jesuits in China
Content:
Huseng said:
Interesting analysis of Ouyi Zhixu's polemic against them. It is funny how he accused them of theft.

Astus wrote:
Interestingly enough, repentance is not something people associate with Buddhism here.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, February 12th, 2012 at 10:22 PM
Title: Re: Way to Buddhahood
Content:
Will said:
Thanks Astus.  Although I am interested in stages of practice, not so much "classification of doctrines". Any influential examples before 900CE; any translated  into English?

Astus wrote:
There is Dushun's meditation manual, translated by T. Cleary in Entry into the Inconceivable. It uses stages of meditation practice in line with the classification of doctrines. Actually, the classification itself can be understood as what follows what, just as in lamrim.

Dharma Atma said:
Guys, is there any difference between words Buddhaship and Buddhahood? Or it's the same?

Astus wrote:
It's easy to tell the difference.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, February 12th, 2012 at 7:44 AM
Title: Re: Way to Buddhahood
Content:
Astus wrote:
It's called the "panjiao" 判教, classification of doctrines. Different schools had different versions of course.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 11th, 2012 at 3:23 AM
Title: Zen Master Subul
Content:
Astus wrote:
A famous living Korean teacher, not so known outside his homeland.
Website with teachings and poems: http://www.angukzen.org/English/Introductions.html



DON'T SEEK NO-MIND

You will feel as if the heavy load were off your shoulders
and cast off your skin
all of a sudden like a thunderbolt from the blue sky.
Who could express this joy of dharma
you feel through the whole body?

However,
you should neither indulge in the feeling
nor be dragged about by arising thoughts.

Don't wander in search of something in vain.
Time will be ripe enough of itself
for everything to reveal itself as it is
if you pass time like this.

On acquaintance
you are no-mind itself from the beginning.
Don't seek no-mind.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, February 5th, 2012 at 6:41 AM
Title: Re: Uncontrived
Content:
Astus wrote:
In many Zen centres they carefully explain to you how to sit, how to walk, how to eat, how to bow, etc. And when it comes to what to do actually when you're supposed to meditate, that is, what to do with the mind, they can only say a few words like "just let it go", "only don't know", and such. I call this super-ritualistic and quite uninformative.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, February 5th, 2012 at 5:59 AM
Title: Re: Which is the biggest teaching?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I specifically said "study the Dharma in depth", and I really meant study. There are of course many practices that does not require one to know anything about the teachings, or only the bare essentials related to that specific practice. It is no coincidence that devotional methods are what generally taught to the masses, because it is something easy to follow. And I'm not saying here that such practices are pointless or misguided. There are also many stories where people who followed simple devotional methods displayed miraculous things in their lives or even after their deaths. But if we consider those who transmitted the teachings to the next generation and had long term influence within a school or an area, they were people of great intelligence and solid education, and usually advantageous social background. Of course, realisation does not require studying the scriptures, nor does it require practising meditation, nevertheless, besides legendary saints, outstanding teachers always had both knowledge and experience. And that includes even Pure Land teachers.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 4th, 2012 at 5:05 AM
Title: Re: Evidence for Design?
Content:
Beatzen said:
There are many examples of unconscious intelligence.  Take the cells of your body and the way they naturally intuit life-sustaining action.

The cells are not conscious of themselves, yet they "know" - similarly, a Buddha does not consciously think "I have attained enlightenment".

Astus wrote:
You call a biological function intelligence. In that sense, everything has intelligence as far as they have some function, and because whatever exists has a function, everything has intelligence. That makes the word "intelligence" pretty meaningless.

If the Buddha doesn't know that he is a perfectly enlightened being - although according to the scriptures he actually says he is one several times - he would be simply stupid and not enlightened.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 4th, 2012 at 4:56 AM
Title: Re: What are 84000 teachings?
Content:
Astus wrote:
DarwidHalim,

You are looking for something that does not exist. I gave the link because the very first post by Ven. Gavesako explains this. "Dhammakkhandha" means simply "groups of teachings", like a stanza, or a sutta, however you like it. If you work really hard, you might come up with a unit that makes the Pali Canon (whichever version you use) to make 84000 such groups. But it's really pointless.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 3rd, 2012 at 10:31 PM
Title: Re: What are 84000 teachings?
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8813#p137154


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 3rd, 2012 at 5:31 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
klqv,

I'm not sure what you're getting to. As a Mahayana path, those who follow the Zen methods aspire to be bodhisattvas and buddhas who liberate sentient beings. It is not the path of the small minded who want only to escape from the cycle of birth and death, but the way of those who realise the inseparability of samsara and nirvana.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 2nd, 2012 at 6:51 PM
Title: Re: Uncontrived
Content:
Beatzen said:
But in zazen, we aren't doing such things.  Steadying the mind on the breath in the tanden region, we empty our mind of it's contents and relax into glimpsing our original face.

Astus wrote:
Where is this kind of seated meditation from? What text, which teacher?
Sitting down, focusing on breath, in the tanden region, emptying the mind of its contents, relaxing, glimpsing the original face.

Well, that's quite a complicated and restrictive practice with several steps to go through, not to mention understanding many foreign and obscure concepts. No doubt this is a possible form of seated meditation, but it's hardly uncontrived or unique/universal in Zen.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 2nd, 2012 at 4:44 AM
Title: Re: Which is the biggest teaching?
Content:
Will said:
Do you really think that the IQ scale or intelligence is the main factor that leads Buddha to target his teachings to "recipients' minds"?  Does high intelligence = wisdom?

Astus wrote:
First, I don't equate IQ with intelligence, nor intelligence with wisdom. Second, being open to higher teachings is usually defined by one's karmic disposition, and only on a second level by one's wisdom and thirdly by intelligence. On the other hand, it is unlikely that somebody with a lower than average intelligence could study the Dharma in depth.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 2nd, 2012 at 12:36 AM
Title: Re: Which is the biggest teaching?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Will, what I meant is that matching the teachings to the recipients' minds it becomes not just claiming that X doctrine is the best, but it adds a personal insult to it.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 2nd, 2012 at 12:25 AM
Title: Re: Which is the biggest teaching?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is one major problem with the idea that "the teaching fits the mind" is that then one has to conclude that only stupid people believe in low level teachings while the smart ones follow the highest teachings. So, if you believe that X sutra/teaching is the best, you are stupid, because it is Z sutra/teaching that is the best and that's what I follow.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 1st, 2012 at 11:56 PM
Title: Re: Which is the biggest teaching?
Content:
Astus wrote:
You'll find the statement that "this is the best/highest/foremost sutra" in many Mahayana sutras. We could say that there is a strong inferiority complex within these texts. We can also say that different sutras were written/collected by different factions who tried to propagate their own teachings. We can do what later theorists did in Buddhism, categorise the sutras according to our taste and thus create a taxonomy, that way decide what sutras are to be taken symbolically and what literally. We can also say that all the sutras ultimately talk about the same thing - of course, we decide what that same thing is - and handle them accordingly. It is also an option to say what has been said before here, that people choose different sutras according to their own inclinations. These, and possibly even more, are existing and working ways of looking at the large variety of Mahayana sutras.

"Outside the mind there is no Lotus Sutra and outside the Lotus Sutra there is no mind." ( http://terebess.hu/zen/hakuin1.html#8 )


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 29th, 2012 at 8:38 PM
Title: Re: Ajahn Amaro tells a story about Venerable Master Hsü Yün
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm not clear on why Ven. Xuyun recognised Ven. Xuanhua as a teacher in the Guiyang school, but it is certain that the Guiyang lineage existed only for a short period of time between the 9th and 10th century. In the list of Xuanhua's transmission record we find Sanjiao Zhiqian ( http://authority.ddbc.edu.tw/person/search.php?aid=A019850 ) from the Tang era. The one following him, Xingyang Ciduo ( http://authority.ddbc.edu.tw/person/search.php?aid=A019852 ) in the http://authority.ddbc.edu.tw/person/ is listed as a disciple of Baoci Deshao, who was the teacher of Sanjiao. Nevertheless, they all lived in the Tang era, while Xuyun lived a thousand years later. This kind of remote transmission (遙嗣) is not unheard of, but it's hardly person to person.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, January 28th, 2012 at 5:38 PM
Title: Re: Evidence for Design?
Content:
Astus wrote:
An unconscious intelligence? That is a bit absurd.
Taoist or any other mono-causal system is refuted by dependent origination.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 27th, 2012 at 11:36 PM
Title: Re: Matchmaking service gives Buddhist monks a boost...
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is a form of natural selection in religion too. Institutions that are not viable eventually die out.
In Europe one is free to join a Christian monastery or become a priest. But only few wants to, and not because it is expensive (it's mostly free).

BTW, are women allowed in Shingon to be heads of temple?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 27th, 2012 at 8:00 PM
Title: Re: The Original Doctrine and Discipline
Content:
Astus wrote:
Stories can be different as they are mostly irrelevant and in many cases could be simply made up to make a point regarding a rule or a teaching. The cardinal teachings are found in the same way in both the Nikaya and Agama collections. The rest is speculation.

https://books.google.hu/books/about/The_fundamental_teachings_of_early_Buddh.html?id=yLU-oZio9_oC&redir_esc=y


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 27th, 2012 at 2:10 AM
Title: Re: Evidence for Design?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is no evidence of design. There is evidence of intelligence conceiving rules and a mystical designer.

Seriously, why not all these theists mention parasites, plagues, viruses and all the rest among the grand creations of an almighty benevolent god? "And God said, 'Let there be flesh-eating disease', and God saw that it was good."


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 27th, 2012 at 1:07 AM
Title: Re: A question of faith
Content:
Astus wrote:
As Mr. G said, compassion is essential to the bodhisattva path, buddhahood is perfect unbounded compassion. Indeed, not only buddhas care about your freedom from suffering, but all bodhisattvas and even many who have not yet become bodhisattvas, or Buddhists.

plwk,

Zen's "great doubt" is quite different from doubting Buddhist teachings, it is more like doubting one's illusory preconceptions and this conceptual reality.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 26th, 2012 at 9:23 PM
Title: Re: Ajahn Amaro tells a story about Venerable Master Hsü Yün
Content:
plwk said:
So Astus, besides the Emperor, what was the role and purpose of the National Master other than advising His Majesty on Buddhist related stuff or was it another puppet role?

Astus wrote:
Being a National Teacher/Preceptor is a rank, a recognition of one's achievement by the government. It doesn't mean that all National Teachers were remembered by history, actually, most of them were not.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 26th, 2012 at 8:38 PM
Title: Re: Ajahn Amaro tells a story about Venerable Master Hsü Yün
Content:
Astus wrote:
These "schools" existed mostly on paper only and not in real life. It also begs the question, how a "school" is defined. Those "schools" which had actual organisational structure and governed monasteries (although never as the exclusive teaching being taught at such a monastery, but the leader(s) of the monastery belonged to that group) were the Tiantai (Tang, Five Dynasties, Song) and Chan (Hongzhou in Tang, Linji (and Caodong) since the Song); Huayan and Vinaya existed to a small extent, but only a few monasteries in the Song. But even these had no main patriarch, no "head of the school", as none of them were that organised. The only actual leader of any Buddhist school one could find in China is the emperor, and other political rulers around the many regions.

So, Ven. Xuyun was hardly a leader of anything, even if he was an outstanding figure in 20th century Chinese Buddhism, but there were others too, like Ven. Taixu and Ven. Yinguang.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 24th, 2012 at 9:21 PM
Title: Re: Nikujiku Saitai Law (肉食妻帯)
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it should be viewed as a matter of progress instead of "corrupting the Sangha". They simply removed legal punishment of monks who did not abide by ecclesiastical rules.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 23rd, 2012 at 3:46 AM
Title: Re: Ajahn Amaro tells a story about Venerable Master Hsü Yün
Content:
Astus wrote:
I assume there are quite a few (miracle) stories about Ven. Xuyun and the Communists. He's become a legendary figure.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, January 21st, 2012 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: Big Mind, Big Money, Big Scam
Content:
Astus wrote:
I can't totally disagree with charging money for such sessions. In China (any practically everywhere else) monks had to go to kings, princes and officials to get appropriate support for entire monasteries and such. Today that is not the situation, but things still cost money. In the old times religious things were covered by the taxes paid to the state or directly to the church. In many countries today that is not even an option, or only a couple of locally important churches (Catholic, Kalvinist, Lutheran, Paroslav, etc.) recieve such money from the state. Another historical example, Genpo roshi may have a Harley, in the old times (and in traditional countries) they have silk-brocade robes, golden statues, etc. It is a big illusion to believe that Buddhist organisations can miraculously function without material wealth, and with wealth comes corruption and other such things.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 20th, 2012 at 10:12 PM
Title: Re: The Sole Practice of Avalokitesvara For Liberation?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The idea of "exclusive practice" occurred with Honen and only in Japan. As you may know, in other countries, Pure Land practice involves many different methods. Guanyin is indeed a popular bodhisattva and there are practices with her, but it'd be strange to find an exclusivist branch.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 20th, 2012 at 5:56 PM
Title: Re: Western Buddhists, modernity and the European enlightenment
Content:
Thug4lyfe said:
Isn't that the same thing what most other Mahayana schools are teaching?  If all Dharma gates are equal, why does it sound like your trying to say Dzogchen is da best au?  Know wat im sayin?

Astus wrote:
Sectarian thinking never becomes outdated.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 20th, 2012 at 5:55 PM
Title: Re: You know you're...
Content:
Huseng said:
Well, as I've said here before, I think Zen has largely been a literary movement.

Astus wrote:
Actually, if you think about, there's lot more to Zen than its literature. It has unique ritualistic aspects, organisational forms, etc.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 20th, 2012 at 4:32 AM
Title: Re: James Low & Simply Being
Content:
Astus wrote:
Indeed, it is his straightforward manner of teaching that grabbed me in the first place. It is difficult to find teachers who don't just repeat the common terminology all the time. Perhaps it is also an advantage that he can teach directly in his native tongue, thus breaking down those cultural and linguistic difficulties.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 19th, 2012 at 9:54 PM
Title: Re: Bodhisattva Hsuan Hua
Content:
Will said:
I am a monk from the Changbai (Eternally White) Mountains, a Chan cultivator from the Black Waters.

Astus wrote:
Then if we consider what Hsuan Hua meant as Chan practice, it's not that difficult. Although even this interpretation is still quite inclusive.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 19th, 2012 at 7:09 PM
Title: Re: You know you're...
Content:
Huseng said:
You should visit Komazawa University. There is a lot of modernism and self-identifying Zen Buddhists there and not so much zazen going on.

Astus wrote:
It might sound strange, but seated meditation hasn't been the focus of Zen in most of its lineages and teachings.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 16th, 2012 at 7:30 PM
Title: Re: FPMT
Content:
Astus wrote:
What Ven. Huifeng has recommended is a good start. One should be familiar with general Mahayana before getting deeper into Chan. DDM's website has some free literature that you could read: http://chancenter.org/cmc/publications/free-literature/.

Then as some better introductions to Chan and Chinese Buddhism, you should also try these works:

Paul Williams: Mahāyāna Buddhism: The Doctrinal Foundations
Robert H. Sharf: Coming to Terms with Chinese Buddhism


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 16th, 2012 at 4:45 AM
Title: Re: Western Buddhists, modernity and the European enlightenment
Content:
Beatzen said:
There is nothing wrong with modernity.  It has nothing to do with zazen practice though.  If you sat zazen, all these opinions you hold about zen would exhaust themselves.

But, I take it you don't have any interest in zazen practice.  And like any other philosophically sophisticated (compliment) Buddhist, the groundlessness of zen and it's flexibility in terms of expression must seem inferior, incredulous or something.  You're only looking at the patina of zen though.

Astus wrote:
This simplification of Zen to sitting meditation could be a modern phenomenon. It is right next to the concept of Zen as something mystical, ineffable and beyond comprehension (thank you DT Suzuki). By turning Buddhism to a secular-looking minimalist practice(!), it becomes a consumable product, even something scientists can research by putting wires onto people's head. But while it is true that Dogen confirmed zazen is the essence of Zen, following the tradition he learnt in China, overemphasising sitting meditation, or the practice of meditation itself, is turning a blind eye to all the works of Dogen, to the fact that Dogen's works was practically unknown until the 17th century in Soto Zen, to the fact that no Buddhist school has ever - not even today - consisted only of sitting meditation (actually, the practice of meditation is quite a neglected think even among monastics), and to the fact that the whole utilitarian-consumerist thinking is a modern idea.

Unmasking Buddhism by Bernard Faure is a must for all who want to think a bit about modern Western Buddhism.


