﻿Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 8th, 2011 at 1:12 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist fundamentalists?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Considering that there are quite a few Vinayas and pratimokshas it is a bit naive to think that all of them are directly from Shakyamuni himself. Understanding the history of Buddhism can actually facilitate the weakening of sectarianism, like https://sites.google.com/site/sectsandsectarianism/ by Bhikkhu Sujato. This crossing the barriers I think is a major task of 21st century global Buddhism.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2011 at 6:10 PM
Title: Re: Authority in dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Wouldn't it be surprising to find a group of people where everybody agrees on everything? Sounds unnatural, isn't it? Or like brainwashed cultists. There are teachers, groups, lineages, traditions so different people can follow the idea they prefer. One might believe that "ultimately everything is one" but relatively there is an obvious diversity. However, once there is authority, orthodoxy, then there are heretics and enemies of the true faith.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2011 at 3:55 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist fundamentalists?
Content:
Astus wrote:
You won't get rid of sectarianism ever. I see a good chance for the merging of different teachings because of the varied sources one can find now, however, even then there are differing interpretations.

"the Buddha was not a fundamentalist because he invited people to test and deabte his Dharma, something a fundamentalist would normally not allow."

It's not that so called fundamentalists don't invite you for a debate but it is how they debate. Debates in most cases are about personal emotions and not the subject of the debate especially when the goal is to convert somebody. Debating for the sake of learning is a different matter, but then fundamentalism is not an issue.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2011 at 3:13 PM
Title: Re: James Low & Simply Being
Content:
Astus wrote:
Magnus,

As the quotes themselves explain, "re-enlightenment" is meant within the context of Samantabhadra as the primordially enlightened buddha and the teaching of original wakefulness. Nobody said that it implies we were all once buddhas then became ordinary beings even if the explanation is given again and again how one keeps straying from buddha-mind every moment.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2011 at 5:12 AM
Title: Re: James Low & Simply Being
Content:
Namdrol said:
There is no term or concept in Dzogchen as being "re-enlightened". Does not exist and does not make sense.

Astus wrote:
Nevertheless, the above authors did use it with the same meaning in a Dzogchen context. If it is not a traditional term it might be a new one.

Tulku Urgyen's "Repeating the Words of the Buddha" has a whole chapter entitled "Re-enlightenment".

At the second movement, the delusions are dispelled and the (perfection) of primordial wisdom develops. That is the development of the basis (itself) as the result (of enlightenment). It is called the re-enlightenment (or self-liberation) through the realization of the essence, the primordial Buddhahood.
(Longchen Rabjam: The Practice of Dzogchen, p. 207)

Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche said, "The confusion that arose in ... the path can be cleared away. When we remove the temporary stains from primordially awakened rigpa, we become re-enlightened instead of primordially enlightened. This is accomplished by following the oral instructions of a fully qualified master."
(Nyoshul Khenpo: Natural Great Perfection, p. 71)

We should train in the state of rigpa that is originally pure. Although the essence is primordially enlightened, the yogi has to be re-enlightened. We have fallen into delusion. Attaining stability in non-delusion is called re-enlightenment.
(Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche: As It Is, vol. 2, p. 67)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2011 at 4:41 AM
Title: Re: James Low & Simply Being
Content:
Astus wrote:
In other words, the primordial state of enlightenment is discovered. Mind-essence was pre-enlightened; our original ground is already enlightened. In the Dzogchen approach, this discovery is called being re-enlightened. Mahamudra does not use these terms re-enlightened and pre-enlightened, but at the fourth stage of nonmeditatation the meaning is basically the same. ... Third is awareness-rigpa reaching fullness, and the fourth stage is called the exhaustion or depletion of all concepts and dualistic phenomena. This stage is equivalent of the stage of nonmeditation in Mahamudra. The ultimate state of enlightenment is being re-enlightened in the pre-enlightened original ground, as mentioned above.
(Adeu Rinpoche: Correlating Mahamudra & Dzogchen in Quintessential Dzogchen, p. 210-211)

The best situation would be if we had never strayed into the deluded way of perceiving to begin with. But somehow it seems that we missed the opportunity to be primordially enlightened, and now we are deep in confusion. ... Even though we missed the chance to be primordially enlightened - "pre-enlightened," if you will - we can still attain stability in the natural freedom of our essence and become "re-enlightened."
(Drubwang Rinpoche: Fearless Simplicity, p. 95)

We possess an enlightened essence, but having temporarily lost that connection we are deluded. Continuously missing the opportunity to awaken, we fall under the power of our ordinary experience, governed by habits so strenuous to maintain such a clinging to a self. ... The loosening of our grasping untangles a knot in our heart; we do not need to stay bound and strangled by it. Likewise, from our confused state, we can be reprogrammed because we are primordially enlightened and we have the potential to return to that state as re-enlightened. Best to leave this for now and conclude by using Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche's words: ... The dirt has to be removed to re-establish the purity of the jewel.
(Marcia Dechen Wangmo: Confessions of a Gypsy Yogini, p. 15-16)


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2011 at 12:45 AM
Title: Re: are all observations delusions?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Yüan-chao states:
In breaking through delusion and realizing true reality in this world, one employs self-power; hence, [self-power practices] are taught in various Mahayana and Hinayana sutras. In going to the other world to listen to the dharma and realize enlightenment, one must rely on Other Power; hence, birth in the Pure Land is taught. Although these two ways differ, they are both means [provided by Sakyamuni] for leading one to realization of one's mind.
( http://www.shinranworks.com/majorexpositions/kgssII-81_83.htm )

Shinran:
"I know nothing at all of good or evil. For if I could know thoroughly, as Amida Tathagata knows, that an act was good, then I would know good. If I could know thoroughly, as the Tathagata knows, that an act was evil, then I would know evil. But with a foolish being full of blind passions, in this fleeting world- this burning house- all matters without exception are empty and false, totally without truth and sincerity. The nembutsu alone is true and real."
http://www.shinranworks.com/relatedworks/tannisho3.htm


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2011 at 11:31 PM
Title: Re: Zen Training
Content:
Astus wrote:
"I’d been working, or attending to something, or in the midst of the eternal wait (for phones, for guests, for orders or requests from senior nuns, for work, for anything) that typifies temple life for young nuns. Maybe it typifies it for senior nuns, too; but young or old, we’re rarely found in an attitude of formal meditation if we live in an average temple. We’re usually found in a state of mild anxiety, trying to anticipate what might happen or need to happen next. Do we cultivate patience? Yes. Generosity? Yes. Attention to the moment? Yes: but not by sitting on cushions, not by scheduling in practice, not by having “space,” not by having “down time.” Would I like to see practice more formally structured and addressed among the young monastic community? Yes, but that’s not the present situation we have to live with."
http://fromthisshore.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/the-chance-to-not-do-morning-walk-4-23/


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2011 at 7:41 PM
Title: Re: are all observations delusions?
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
But that's what I am talking about. "we imagine into an inherent self and we reify concepts" is the setting in which we experience the senses, suffering, pleasure, etc. and the means by which we establish for ourselves the validity of the Buddha's teachings. But because "we imagine into an inherent self and we reify concepts" doesn't that make what we experience also a delusion?  And if we observe thay they are delusions, then isn't that observation  a delusion as well?

Astus wrote:
Then please clarify what you mean by delusion. In my understanding the chair I'm sitting on is a chair for any other human being and it has the function of a chair. This is its conventional reality, something that people call real, so calling it a chair and perceiving it as a chair is correct comprehension, not mistaken.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2011 at 4:52 PM
Title: Re: are all observations delusions?
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
If all of our observations are delusions, then how do we know we are deluded? Wouldn't that observation be a delusion?

Astus wrote:
Delusion in Buddhism is not some sort of Matrix-like concept where everything is fake. Delusion means that in our experience we imagine into an inherent self and we reify concepts. In the Pure Land teaching what matters is that we are bound by karma - as a result of ignorance - and to attain freedom the best choice is to be born in the Pure Land of Amitabha. Being bound by karma means that our acts are based on the view of a self, whether we do good or bad, consequently we keep being reborn in the six realms of samsara. This is not about our ability to comprehend our situation but about liberating ourselves from karma. In terms of the four noble truths, the Pure Land teaching means that we can understand that samsara is suffering, our desires cause the suffering, desire can be eliminated, but since we have low capacity to liberate ourselves we rely on the vow of Amitabha to be born in the Pure Land and there attain enlightenment and liberate all beings.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2011 at 3:14 AM
Title: Re: are all observations delusions?
Content:
Astus wrote:
All our observations are delusions because we maintain a subject-object duality, this is our fundamental ignorance. Shinran's deluded person is prthagjana in sanskrit, that is an ordinary being without insight into the true nature of reality. Since it is practically impossible to attain enlightenment in the Dharma-ending age, says Shinran, the only realistic option is to rely on Amida's vow. That is a religious-soteriological statement. It doesn't mean if you see a cat it is not a cat.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2011 at 12:27 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Namdrol said:
ChNN also uses example of tuning in a radio or a TV to proper station.

Astus wrote:
And if we use that example it's the radiowave I don't really see.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Nangwa said:
Its not for everybody.
People have tried to give you a wide variety of explanations and metaphors etc. throughout this thread. At this point its repetitious and a bit silly.
Its starting to look like you have an aversion, rather than interest.

Astus wrote:
No aversion, I was simply looking a different kind of explanation. From the repetition it is clear there isn't such. No result is still a result.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 11:32 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Namdrol said:
Plugging it in makes it work. Transmission is like the plugging in a device. Here you are plugging in your continuum to the living continuum of realization which comes from Samantabhadra to you.

Astus wrote:
Very plastic metaphor, and lineage is central in Vajrayana, I understand that. I was looking for a different kind of explanation but I can accept that it is something that doesn't exist. Thanks for the help.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 11:23 PM
Title: Re: Layman Pang and me/us
Content:
LastLegend said:
Astus is right. If we are deluded, everything can be really bad. If we are not deluded, bad and good can not really bother us.

Astus wrote:
I'd rather say that we should be clear about causes and results while also aware of our mental state.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 11:14 PM
Title: Re: Layman Pang and me/us
Content:
KwanSeum said:
So I should keep my car and Tag Heuer watch because otherwise I'd have to live in a field?

Astus wrote:
Keep it or leave it - these are extremes. You should find your priorities and see what use you can find for the things you have. If you want some extra cash you can sell your watch, if you don't need money now you can just keep it in a drawer. Or you can throw it out the window or give it to someone, whatever. Pang threw out his stuff because he didn't want them and thought that they'd only cause trouble to others. What do you think? If you gave your watch to a poor man, is that good for him or bad? If you keep it, is that good for you or bad? What makes something good or bad?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 11:04 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Namdrol said:
You don't think what is relevant?

Astus wrote:
My personal relationship with Dzogchen.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 10:50 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Namdrol said:
Astus:

You are wasting everyone's time with this question.

Dzogchen is a Vajrayana system. The Guru is indispensable.

If you want transmission, you must get it from a Guru. Live.

N

Astus wrote:
Is it a waste of time to investigate the nature of transmission? What you're saying is that "that's how it is, that's the tradition". Actually, that is an answer too and if that's all then I'm fine with it.

I've participated in Dzogchen transmission both face to face and DC's webcast, but I don't think it is relevant.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 9:42 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
mindyourmind said:
In a face-t-face situation, can you really say that the viewer will always be able to pick up everything? My point about the lesson about "reality" remains. We treat a face-to-face meeting as "real", and an electronic one as seemingly less "real". Is that justified?

Astus wrote:
A good topic but I don't see yet how it pertains to this discussion on transmission. Perhaps if we take into account the possibility of visionary and dream transmissions. But then we just have lot of different settings without defining the relationship between teacher and student. It could be also added that infinite buddhas transmit the complete teaching all the time.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 9:38 PM
Title: Re: Layman Pang and me/us
Content:
Astus wrote:
The story of Pang Yun is just a story, take it as that. Renunciation of possessions can happen mainly in two ways: you become a monk or you remain a lay person but learn not to be (too) hung up by the things you have. Throwing out things for the sake of not having them, sure you can do that, but how would it help anyone? The problem doesn't lie in the things you have but your relationship with them. Ultimately you don't need anything beyond the four things needed by a monk (food, clothes, abode, medicine). Practically, as you're living in a developed country and you're not a monk hidden in a remote monastery, there are many things you use from spoon to central heating. And as I've heard UK is not the best place for spending your life in the shade of a tree.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 9:25 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Pero said:
That does happen, but it's like a flash. You might not realize it or even if you do it doesn't last. Soon after mind arises again and then you're left in doubt.

Astus wrote:
How does that qualify for transmission? People get shocked naturally in their daily lives. Also, there are the so called gaps between thoughts one could realise any time. But there is no recognition, no awareness of awareness on its own, so no realisation.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 9:16 PM
Title: Re: Master Sheng-yen
Content:
Huseng said:
Incidentally, the whole works of Master Sheng Yen are online now. Mostly Chinese, but click number 9 on the left-hand side for his writings in English.

http://ddc.shengyen.org/ " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Astus wrote:
Unfortunately those are not all of his English books. More free literature here: http://chancenter.org/cmc/publications/free-literature/ " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 9:14 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
mindyourmind said:
But surely that question is valid regardless of whether the transmission or event is an electronic one or not. That scenario you sketch can, and no doubt does, happen in a more regular "face-to-face" meeting? I'm not sure that the question takes the discussion on the electronic transmissions any further.

Astus wrote:
Might be, still, the question is about the electronic form because it can be both live and recorded and it shows no difference from the perspective of the viewer.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 9:04 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Pero said:
I already told you, every student gets it. They just might not be able to "understand" it at that time.

Astus wrote:
What do they get if they don't know about it? How is that different from saying that everybody has buddha-nature it's just they don't realise it? Getting something means there was something missing - but buddha-nature is already perfect so they can't be missing that. What people don't have is realisation and introduction to rigpa is supposed to be that, seeing original awareness. If they don't see it there what is it they still get?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 5:44 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Pero said:
The teacher is not necessarily in that state all the time. So if you listen to a recording, who knows what the teacher is doing. Without the teacher there cannot be a direct transmission. I'm repeating myself but I'm not sure how to explain it otherwise to you.

Astus wrote:
OK, the teacher has to be in the state for the transmission. Why? What difference does it make from the perspective of the student who either gets it there or not, perhaps realises it months later without the presence of any teacher. Why is a teacher needed there? Is there no explanation? Just because?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 4:58 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Pero said:
This is an incorrect conclusion. The direct transmission cannot be recorded at all, so how is a recording as good as a live one? A recording cannot give you a direct transmission, only a live teacher can.

Astus wrote:
Now we're going in circles. Direct transmission is that both student and teacher are in the same state and the same time. To bring a student to that state oral and symbolic methods are used and just because a teacher is in the state doesn't make the student attain in. Also, the state itself is not bound by space nor time, so being synchronous doesn't make sense. As you say, it is not "direct transmission" that is recorded but the methods that bring students to the realisation and that realisation is essentially the transmission. Based on these I ask why would a live teacher be necessary. The main point is the distinction of realisation and method where the method is perceivable but the realisation is not. If you say there is still a need for a live teacher there must be some error in the above reasoning.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 6:51 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Sönam said:
You try to use the dualistic mind environment to catch precisely a non-dual experience. If the experience is non-dual, how can a difference between teacher and practitioner mind be perceived?. synchronization does not need to be in the same geographical space ... it would not need to be in the same time either, but then then experience is of a much more higher level ...

Astus wrote:
The question was/is about the difference between live and recorded forms. If neither time nor space matters that means there is no difference. Also, as Pero mentioned, oral and symbolic forms convey the direct one, since both oral and symbolic can be recorded without any problem, again, a recorded Dzogchen transmission is as good as a live one.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 4:02 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Nangwa said:
The student is not in the same state.
The teacher shows it to the student.
The student has a moment or two of recognition of that state.
It is then up to the student to continue to work with it.

Astus wrote:
But the state is not shown by the teacher being in it. It is not even a state that can be grasped, how could then the experience itself be shown?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 3:55 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Namdrol said:
That is communication between two people, a speaker and a listener.

Astus wrote:
OK, I feel we're getting somewhere now. The question then is: why is it important that the teacher is in the same state at the same time as the student? Isn't the point of the whole thing that the student realises it? How does it make a difference if somebody else is also in that realisation?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 3:48 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Namdrol said:
No, it just means that two people have to be in a process of communication with each other.

Astus wrote:
In response to this (phone call) I said that at the time of a webcast (or even in a live session) the audience listens to the teacher and does not talk to him/her, so there is no communication between two people but communication from one person to the others. Of course, there is a room later for a Q&A part.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 3:31 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Namdrol said:
Who said that Dzogchen is not communicated through conventional means?

Astus wrote:
Webcast happens in a video format. If it must be live and can't happen through a record there must be some extra beyond conventional means. That's what I'm inquiring about, that non-conventional part.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 1:54 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Namdrol said:
Yes.

Astus wrote:
What?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 1:53 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Nangwa said:
The method is just a symbol to transmit the introduction.
It can be perceived or experienced if the student goes beyond the symbol of the method of introduction. And thats the rub. It IS a shared experience/connection that occurs at that very moment between the teacher and students. A recording just wont cut the mustard because the moment has passed.
Thats kind of the whole point. You are sharing an experience with the teacher via the methods he or she employs for the introduction.
Like I said before, its difficult to explain. Its up to the student and teacher to make that connection and work with it directly.

Astus wrote:
Letters are symbols to represent language, language is also a set of symbols to communicate thoughts. I don't see your thoughts and you don't see my thoughts. If I say the words you can't hear since you are not near me but as I write it down my thoughts eventually reach you in some form. Same goes on with symbols meant to convey the experience of realisation. The realisation itself is not communicated without some sort of expressions, and just as in case of words, the expressions don't lose their conveying nature if they are preserved in some way. To say that there is something is actually communicated without expressions means that there is actually no need for any form of communication, so the point of organising an event for transmission is meaningless. We can share an idea because we communicate in words or other means. Without words we don't share any idea neither can we decide if we share it or not. How is that different with realisation? Just because you have realised something - Dzogchen or anything else - if you don't tell me about it I won't be able to share it with you.

The Samdhinirmocana Sutra says, "Thus, good son, the saints, being freed from language through their holy wisdom and insight in this regard, realize the perfect awakening that reality is truly apart from language. It is because they desire to lead others to realize perfect awakening that they provisionally establish names and concepts and call things conditioned or unconditioned." This points clearly to the relationship between the ultimate and the conventional and how it is the conventional that teaches the path to the ultimate. Same what Nagarjuna said. How then can the Dzogchen transmission communicate something without conventional means? I know you said it's difficult to explain, but perhaps it's not impossible.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2011 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Nangwa said:
How is it different?
The teacher has completely integrated into the state of the third statement and uses many methods (not just phat) to introduce the students to that state via the first statement/direct introduction.
Direct introduction works from a distance because the principles of the base are not constrained by space or time. What is constrained by time is the current condition of the students. Therefore, they must have the intention of receiving transmission at the time it is given and the teacher must give it simultaneously via a means by which he or she feels will be most conducive for students.
Its not very complicated. But it is highly experiential and the students have various different experiences based upon their prior training and connection to the teachings.

Astus wrote:
The base is unconditioned, the student is conditioned. The method of introduction is conditioned as it has to be on the level of the student. The teacher abiding in the base have an unconditioned mind, so it is not a method being communicated and not something a student perceives. What is perceived is the method and that method can be recorded and replayed since it is perceptible to the physical senses. That again is the reason I ask for the difference between the live and recorded transmission.

Am I repeating myself? Is it something I'm not getting?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 11:46 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Pero said:
I don't think it's really any different. For a direct introduction the teacher has to be in the state of Dzogchen. When he is giving transmission he is in that state for sure. If you just have a recording, there is no way of telling whether he is in that state or not, and that state cannot be recorded.

Astus wrote:
Direct introduction is said to happen when Phat cuts all conceptual elaborations. The teacher being in the state of Dzogchen, that's what I don't see how it affects those who receive the transmission. It should be a personal and direct experience on the part of the students who are to be introduced. Some realises it, some don't. But another being's state of mind, that is not accessible to the students, they don't see it or experience it any way. The teacher can't directly influence the minds of the listeners either, otherwise all should attain enlightenment right there.

Nangwa said:
Its not particularly magical.
All it really is is the Three Statements of Garab Dorje making sense in ones experience.
Its actually quite practical and what remains are the second and third statements.

Astus wrote:
That is quite a different thing in my interpretation. What you say doesn't explain the first statement itself as an interaction between teacher and student.

DN said:
What are you searching Astus? Some physical medium that allows the connection, like air conducing sound or the electromagnetic fields conducing information allowing the teacher, student connection? I don't understand what are you looking for.

Astus wrote:
Exactly. If there is an qualitative difference between a live and recorded transmission I'd like to have defined that quality.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Nangwa said:
Its hard to explain or describe.
Its easy for us to say romantic things about mind to mind transmission or karmic ripening etc. but the reality of the situation is more personal and I dont think the experience is uniform among students.
The only thing we can really talk about in the context of what "connects" is based on our own experience.
For me it has been a strong experience of clarity with some other odd occurrences. Both via webcast and in person.

Astus wrote:
Thanks for your reply, what you say is so intimate. I understand it is this emotional-magical aspect that can make a lot of difference, when one thinks there are others doing the same and the teacher is doing the transmission. But once the magic (the personal attitude toward the event) is taken out of the context what remains, well, is just the video record.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 10:52 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Pero said:
That could only be true for a lung transmission. For an empowerment I don't think so, since how can you record someone's inner dimension? If the teacher manifests as a deity to give an empowerment for example, how are you going to record that? There is no technology in existence that is capable of doing that.

Astus wrote:
If there is a personal contact (physical) required it is understandable that no record - or digital transmission - can substitute that (unless perhaps if we invent a holo-room like in Star Trek). My intention wasn't about going into other areas besides Dzogchen but only the discussion of this specific webcast format.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Nangwa said:
The need is based on time.
The intentions have to be simultaneous for the connection to occur at its full potential.

Astus wrote:
What connection occurs? Connection between teacher and student through what?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 10:17 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Pero said:
Intention is the difference. Above you're talking about relationship, not transmission. Transmission doesn't have anything to do with it. (though even for relationship you don't have to be together with the teacher physically)
The teacher has to have the intention to transmit or there is no transmitting. The person on the receiving end has to have the intention to receive, otherwise there can be no receiving. So it's like someone calls you and you don't pick the phone or you pick up the phone. The moment you picked up the phone it's no longer a one-way communication.

Astus wrote:
The intention on the part of the teacher can be in writing, painting, speaking, moving, etc. A record is made with the intention to bring it to others. Others listen to the teaching - live or recorded - with the intention to receive something. Thus there is no apparent need for a live event.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 9:55 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Pero said:
And that's the core of it. Who said transmission is a one-way thing?
I suppose you could say something like this. There can be only one person talking on the phone while the other just listens, but he still had to pick up the call. If he hadn't, the other person would not be talking and/or there would be no chance of hearing.

But, I think this changes with the type of transmission. I'm actually in the camp of people who believe that receiving a lung transmission should be possible through recordings. Dodrupchen used to send his students lungs on CDs. But you have to respect that teachers' idea from whom you're receiving teachings, so if he says it's a no go then it's a no go.

Astus wrote:
Well, transmission, pointing out instruction, they can be both one-way and two-way. In the form a webcast is done or when large number of people take part in it it is a one-way thing since it'd be quite impossible to involve even 50 people into a single event personally, not to mention hundreds. A two-way version is when there is communication between teacher and student and they personally know each other. If there is a visiting teacher from far away and gives whatever initiation/empowerment/teaching/etc. to a local group or audience, that's a one-way event, a one man show. Being part of a small community and having a close relationship with a teacher, that's a two-way thing.

I raised the question about communication exactly because I see no reason why it shouldn't be the same in a recorded form as in live. But since there were people who said there is a difference I wanted to know what it is. But I still have no definite answer.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 9:13 PM
Title: Re: "Integral Zen"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Merzel has been involved with the Integral thingy for a while now, no surprise they create a One Big Integral Enlightenment Week.

OTOH, Zen has always been an open "school" ready to integrate different Buddhist and not so Buddhist teachings and practices in China, Korea and Vietnam, as it served as the organising system for the whole sangha.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 9:09 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
username,

If it is beyond time-space it is always "at the same time" of no-time, so there's no difference between live and recorded.

Namdrol,

Of course not. However, a transmission is not a two-way communication but there is one speaker/transmitter and many listeners/receivers, like a radio/TV programme where whether the show is live or recorded makes no difference.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 5:31 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
username,

Thanks for the long response. Unfortunately, and this may be my fault, I don't see how it explains what I'm asking about. What I'm asking is simply the connection. It's like there are two computers and I'm asking how they are connected. I can't find in your answer that connecting relation. This I assume is important because that's why a live transmission is OK but not its recorded version. So it is the connection, not other parts I'm asking about.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 4:37 PM
Title: Re: Zen Training
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think I've already made clear my point that Samurai Zen is a phenomenon limited to certain monasteries and not at all a general thing, especially not among fully ordained monks (and nuns!) in other countries.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 3:03 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
username,

Of course I didn't mean to ponder about these things when one is attending a transmission. I'm asking about this here on the forum. Could you then explain, please?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2011 at 2:57 AM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Huseng said:
Actually the idealistic view of Zen monasteries in the west would have them as brainwashing camps.
The reality is much different.

Astus wrote:
A fertile soil for abusive "masters". I don't even understand this fascination with military style. Monasteries are not about training "Soldiers of Buddha". And fighting (inner and outer) doesn't lead to peace. In that short article Buswell has another good point in that short article quoted before (BTW, he also has a book on Korean Zen monasticism):

"Finally, many Western works on Zen describe the school as attempting to develop forms of Buddhist praxis that would appeal to the special religious needs of the laity. But the realities of modern Son training in Korea testify that it is only within the specialized practice institution of the meditation hall that anyone has much of a chance to succeed at meditation practice. Even monks in the support division of the Korean monastery are presumed to be so busy with their sundry duties that they are not meditating. But if the demands of meditation practice are considered to be beyond the ability of even the support monks to fulfill, what reasonable hope would there be for laypeople? The protestations of past masters to the contrary, Son monastic life suggest that Zen meditative techniques were never seriously intended for the laity, but targeted those few monks with the fortitude to endure many years of ascetic training in the meditation hall."

Here I'd like to add that Zen has never really been about rigorous meditation practice and asceticism (dhutanga), something that existed in Buddhism from the very beginning but cultivated only by a minority of monks.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2011 at 9:29 PM
Title: Re: Zen Training
Content:
James418 said:
If you live with 10 people at close quarters for 6 months with few distractions, you will see some real fireworks. Like I said, it is a pressure cooker - all monasteries are.

Astus wrote:
And there are monasteries with hundreds of monks, a range of departments to organise publications, ceremonies, charities and many other programmes. Just check out http://www.fgs.org.tw/english/, http://www.ctworld.org/english-96/html/index.htm, http://www.hanmaum.org/eng/2007new/seon_center/history.html, etc.

You can also read Robert Buswell's brief summary of monastic life in Korea: http://eng.buddhapia.com/_Service/_ContentView/ETC_CONTENT_2.ASP?pk=0000594076&sub_pk=&clss_cd=0002183611&top_menu_cd=0000000871

"But the importance of the meditation hall to Korean monasteries should not be overemphasized. While it is true that the meditation hall and the monks practicing there are the focus of much of the large monastery's activities, the majority of its residents spend no time in meditation and many have no intention of ever undertaking such training. Son monastic life therefore is broad enough to accommodate people of a variety of temperaments and interests—administrators, scholars, workers—offering them many different kinds of viable religious vocations."


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2011 at 7:26 PM
Title: Re: Zen Training
Content:
Astus wrote:
OK, lets then clarify things here. What monastic training you mean? Japanese, Korean, Chinese or Western? If Japanese, what school? If it is Western Buddhist, which monastery? Generalisation would be very misleading here. I know that some Japanese Zen temples do it in a very tough fashion, but those are primarily the so called training monasteries where most of the people send only a little time and it is intensified like that because it is meant to be an intensive training. Such concept doesn't exist in other Buddhist countries where monasteries are just monasteries and monks won't leave to take over the family temple. Also, an intensive retreat is like Christmas, a special time of the year and not the normal way of daily activities. Such "pressure cooking" and "boot camp" is hardly the everyday experience of a common monastery where monks and nuns are busy with their daily activities - where sitting meditation is part of the morning and evening ceremony but otherwise optional.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2011 at 5:43 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
James418 said:
Without a teacher the training cuts no ice. You just cannot get around it. Meditation doesn't mean jack unless you are being confronted with your fears and put through the wringer on a daily basis. Sure, life puts you on the precipice a couple of times, but a good teacher will put you through it far more frequently. Even in the more sedate traditions, they can be extremely rough - I know the Thai forest monks are very hard on the new monks for a few years until they get "softened up". In Zen there are the "fearful shouts and blows". In a traditional training they have a thousand or so years experience in knowing just how far they can push an individual before they crack - and a person on their own just can't recreate that.

Astus wrote:
You talk about a brainwashing camp, not Buddhism, as far as I can tell. I understand there are people who imagine Zen to be like the marine corps but I don't think it is. Have you heard of the Buddha beating monks? Or shouting at them? Unlikely. Zen stories are not the reality but religious tales, nobody should take those literally.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2011 at 5:22 PM
Title: James Low & Simply Being
Content:
Astus wrote:
He is one of the less known teachers as he tours only in Europe. I find his style very modern and appropriate for the audience. There are transcripts and videos on the website, there are also books you can buy.

http://simplybeing.co.uk/simply/Simply_Being_Dzogchen.html

"Simply being is the ground, path and fruition of all existence. The teaching of this is known as dzogchen or the natural perfection of all experience.
This is not an abstract idea but is the vital presence which we embody and engage with as the world around us. Dzogchen teaching recalls us to the open nature of all things, the natural state we have never left, yet have somehow forgotten."


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2011 at 4:54 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
username said:
Apart from the session's pithy instructions which are secondary to intending and achieving instant presence anyway, conceptualizing or worrying about unnecessary temporal (synchronous/asynchronous) & causal clockworks are obstacles.

Astus wrote:
Since that is presented as an explanation of the mechanism I am actually interested what that really means. I don't see how that is bad.

Vajrahridaya said:
Basically, it was deeply felt, beyond the intellect, through the transmission due to the energy of intuitive synchronicity, like a grid of positive intention sweeping the globe. "Snap"...

Astus wrote:
"energy of intuitive synchronicity" - very poetic expression. But it seems to me only a concept with little actual meaning. Is it that you're explaining an experience with a theory or that you are aware of a causal relation behind the events?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2011 at 6:34 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
What does synchronicity stand for in this case? If the teacher is in a particular state that in fact nobody else can sense or touch in any way how does that influence those who attempt to be in the same state? Or even if both teacher and students are in the same state how is that related to each other? What is the connection between the state of the teacher and the students if not anything perceptible?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2011 at 4:35 AM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
My question basically was/is that since it is all right not to have a teacher there in person but it is enough to hear his voice and see his form via TV/computer, why would not a record of it be the same? And if digitally there is no difference at all between recorded and live - there isn't - whatever is communicated is either what is seen and heard or it is not. If it is communicated through perceptible means a record is as good as live. If it is not communicated through anything perceptible then what and how is it?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 30th, 2011 at 10:17 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Namdrol said:
You can have a recorded teaching -- but you cannot receive transmission from a recording.

Astus wrote:
That's why I ask what the difference is between a live webcast and its record. If no transmission is possible through a record what makes the live one special? IIRC there were video cassettes used before online transmission. But even if the teacher simultaneously takes part without being seen or heard by the student, how is that relevant to those sitting in front of a screen?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 30th, 2011 at 10:02 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Namdrol,

So technically it is OK to have a recorded teaching, right? Then books are practically the same.

DN,

Intention is quite an internal thing, I don't see how its simultaneity has any relevance. Plus there is always a delay in transmission, even if just a few seconds.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 30th, 2011 at 9:50 PM
Title: Re: Electronic Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
How does a live webcast differs from a record, if at all?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 30th, 2011 at 9:04 PM
Title: Re: Master Sheng-yen
Content:
Lazy_eye said:
Is Mahayana more restrictive in its view of what can be accomplished?

Astus wrote:
As always, it depends on whom you ask and what texts you cite.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 30th, 2011 at 7:37 PM
Title: Re: Treaders of the Path, why are you not liberated?
Content:
Astus wrote:
One day on the mountain Master Huike met a lay practitioner who had a skin disease.  The layman asked the master, “This disciple’s body is is bound up in illness.  Master, please help me repent for my sins.”
The master said, “Bring me your sins and I will absolve them for you.”
After a pause the layman said, “Looking for my sins, I can’t find them anywhere.”
The ancestor said, “There, I have absolved your sins. From now on live in reliance on your true nature, on practice, and on spiritual community.”
Master Huike ordained the layman and gave him the name Sengcan.
( http://touchingearth.info/dregs/ )

Daoxin said, "I ask for the Master's compassion. Please tell me of the gate of emancipation."
Sengcan said, "Who has bound you?"
Daoxin said, "No one has bound me."
Sengcan said, "They why are you seeking emancipation?"
Upon hearing these words, Daoxin experienced great enlightenment.
(Zen's Chinese Heritage, p. 24)


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 28th, 2011 at 10:12 PM
Title: Re: Master Sheng-yen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Very good interview, touches many important points.

I can only wish that the word "ego" eventually gets lost from being associated with Buddhism or used in that context.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 28th, 2011 at 5:01 PM
Title: Re: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
remm said:
The guy calls himself a "Living Buddha". This has fraud written all over it.

Astus wrote:
"Living buddha" is the same as "tulku".


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 27th, 2011 at 4:04 AM
Title: Re: Why is Buddhism so appealing to educated Caucasians?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't think this should be a racial question, simply because I doubt it has much to do with it. Education and social situation on the other hand are important factors. It is also a question what kind of Buddhism one talks about. As I've heard Nichiren Buddhism is quite popular among working class people in America.

There is an important misconception about Buddhism among Westerners. That it is all about inner peace, meditation, philosophy and enlightenment. Quite far from the day to day reality of the majority of Buddhists. However, it would be nearly impossible at the moment to make people believe in the Pure Land instead of Jesus. That's why Buddhism first spread among the literati, the intellectuals who found foreign views inspiring. Even among the Buddha's immediate disciples many were from higher castes who lived in cities while the laity, who supported the Buddhist monks and nuns, kept their gods and rituals according to tradition.

The primary message of Buddhism to the common people is about alms giving, morality, merits and rebirth. The very part that Westerners rarely take notice of. But if one could choose between higher salary and a month long retreat it'd be the money in 9 out of 10 cases. So the Buddha says that if you want more money, a faithful spouse, a loving family and perhaps a good next life you should be generous and keep some precepts. However, if you are stingy and do bad things you'll be poor, sick and might even spend a few aeons in hell. This is easy to understand and makes sense, unlike talks about no-self, five aggregates, sitting on a cushion doing nothing and such. I don't know if there are teachers who try to spread this as Buddhism among people in the West. That's why those who are less interested in material gains - i.e. those who already have more than enough - want to learn Buddhism and not those who prefer a good meal over a good book.

As for Hungarian gypsies and Buddhism check out the http://www.jaibhim.hu/. They also have a school for gypsies: http://www.ambedkar.eu/.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 27th, 2011 at 3:32 AM
Title: Re: Spreading the Dharma in Africa?
Content:
Luke said:
But religions do have a history of inspiring prophets and saints who spread their religions, such as Guru Rinpoche and Bodhidharma (who were Indian foreigners in Tibet and China respectively).  The locals became inspired to convert after meeting such amazing teachers.

Does anyone know if the Dalai Lama has ever visited Africa?

Astus wrote:
Good point, there are outstanding teachers, although the two you mentioned are mostly legendary figures (Chan definitely didn't become famous because of Bodhidharma). There are well known and widely respected teachers in the West among whom the Dalai Lama is the number one. However, we shouldn't forget the optimal conditions for such teachers to appear. The Dalai Lama is famous because he was the leader of Tibet, D. T. Suzuki became famous because there were people hungry for knowledge about the mystical East, and so on with other notable masters. If there are some groups in Africa looking for inner changes instead of outer rituals Buddhism has a chance of spreading.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 26th, 2011 at 8:19 PM
Title: Re: Spreading the Dharma in Africa?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't remember if there were any country where immigrants could actually spread Buddhism. That's for two reasons: 1. immigrants either form a closed community or assimilate; 2. immigrants lack the social position to be listened to by the hosting population. Christianity and Islam didn't spread in Africa because of immigrating Europeans and Arabs. And if Ethiopia doesn't allow other religions then Buddhism is not a religion.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 25th, 2011 at 5:00 AM
Title: Re: Spreading the Dharma in Africa?
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://blag.biz/node/47
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Buddhism_in_Africa


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 24th, 2011 at 6:04 PM
Title: Re: Should we teach our children to be Buddhists?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't think teaching Buddhism to children means explaining impermanence, selflessness, emptiness or even death. Wisdom teachings are OK only in small amounts in wrapped in digestible stories. Otherwise it should be more of moral teachings and different practices of good deeds. And in case it is Mahayana teaching about bodhisattvas and buddhas plus some recitation is also good.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 24th, 2011 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: Chan Texts: Translations & Studies
Content:
Astus wrote:
Seeing through Zen by McRae I think is the best for starters in the topic, and it is in quite an enjoyable style. Zongmi on Chan, The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment, Cultivating Original Enlightenment and Tracing Back the Radiance are wonderful and comprehensive works on Zen doctrine and practice I can recommend for everyone who is serious about understanding this kind of Buddhism.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 24th, 2011 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: Chan Texts: Translations & Studies
Content:
Astus wrote:
Seeing through Zen by McRae I think is the best for starters in the topic, and it is in quite an enjoyable style. Zongmi on Chan, The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment, Cultivating Original Enlightenment and Tracing Back the Radiance are wonderful and comprehensive works on Zen doctrine and practice I can recommend for everyone who is serious about understanding this kind of Buddhism.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 23rd, 2011 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: Chan Texts: Translations & Studies
Content:
Astus wrote:
A few more:

Integrating Chinese Buddhism: A Study of Yongming Yanshou’s Guanxin Xuanshu by Yi-hsung Huang
Inquiry into the origin of humanity: an annotated translation of Tsung-mi's Yüan jen lun with a modern commentary by Peter N. Gregory
Tsung-mi and the sinification of Buddhism by Peter N. Gregory
Coming to terms with Chinese Buddhism: a reading of the Treasure store treatise by Robert H. Sharf
Sudden and Gradual: Approaches to Enlightenment in Chinese Thought by Peter N. Gregory
Buddhism in the Sung by Peter N. Gregory, Daniel Aaron Getz

Steven Heine, Dale Stuart Wright:

Zen ritual: studies of Zen Buddhist theory in practice
Zen classics: formative texts in the history of Zen Buddhism
The Zen canon: understanding the classic texts
The Kōan: texts and contexts in Zen Buddhism
Zen Masters

Philosophical Meditations on Zen Buddhism by Dale S. Wright

Steven Heine:

Opening a mountain: kōans of the Zen Masters
Shifting shape, shaping text: philosophy and folklore in the Fox kōan
Zen skin, Zen marrow: will the real Zen Buddhism please stand up?
Did Dōgen go to China?: what he wrote and when he wrote it
Dōgen and the Kōan tradition: a tale of two Shōbōgenzō texts


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 23rd, 2011 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: Chan Texts: Translations & Studies
Content:
Astus wrote:
A few more:

Integrating Chinese Buddhism: A Study of Yongming Yanshou’s Guanxin Xuanshu by Yi-hsung Huang
Inquiry into the origin of humanity: an annotated translation of Tsung-mi's Yüan jen lun with a modern commentary by Peter N. Gregory
Tsung-mi and the sinification of Buddhism by Peter N. Gregory
Coming to terms with Chinese Buddhism: a reading of the Treasure store treatise by Robert H. Sharf
Sudden and Gradual: Approaches to Enlightenment in Chinese Thought by Peter N. Gregory
Buddhism in the Sung by Peter N. Gregory, Daniel Aaron Getz

Steven Heine, Dale Stuart Wright:

Zen ritual: studies of Zen Buddhist theory in practice
Zen classics: formative texts in the history of Zen Buddhism
The Zen canon: understanding the classic texts
The Kōan: texts and contexts in Zen Buddhism
Zen Masters

Philosophical Meditations on Zen Buddhism by Dale S. Wright

Steven Heine:

Opening a mountain: kōans of the Zen Masters
Shifting shape, shaping text: philosophy and folklore in the Fox kōan
Zen skin, Zen marrow: will the real Zen Buddhism please stand up?
Did Dōgen go to China?: what he wrote and when he wrote it
Dōgen and the Kōan tradition: a tale of two Shōbōgenzō texts


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 23rd, 2011 at 5:17 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jinzang,

There is not so much doctrinal variation in Buddhism as you are saying.

No, not that much. But even if you just look at Zen in China you find how there were different factions and how the interpretation of certain teachings differed. But you can do the same with Korean and Japanese Zen too, not to mention comparing these Zen forms. Also, there were not just debates about doctrine but political and economical issues too - likely to be more often the subject of arguments than teachings.

I think Buddhist teachers function more like sports coaches or art teachers than academic professors.

I think there are different Buddhist teachers depending on what they focus on but what is common in them is that they are all teachers of religion. They teach (or supposed to teach) faith, morality, doctrine and practice (where practice means not just yogic/meditation stuff but many other things). From the time of Dahui Zonggao the practice of huatou was assigned to many lay men and women who were to maintain the big doubt throughout their daily activities. The book "Swampland Flowers" is actually a selection of Dahui's correspondence with his lay students who may or may not have visited him in person. And it's enough to consider when one is an abbot of hundreds of monks and has a high reputation the schedule is pretty full for the following years. Even among the monks it was a privilege to meet the abbot (i.e. the Zen master) besides formal encounters. The position that would fit best your definition of a coach is the monk in charge of the meditation hall to supervise regular sessions, technically that person is the meditation (but not Zen) master.

"A special transmission, outside of the scriptures," remember?

That is a Zen slogan misunderstood and misused too often. Special transmission is no transmission because there is nothing to transmit, it simply means seeing the nature is the transmission of mind, thus it is not within the scriptures, that is verbal explanations and concepts. But to think that there are actually people who dispensate enlightenment, that is absurd.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 23rd, 2011 at 3:36 PM
Title: Re: Chan Texts: Translations & Studies
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'd add a few others, mostly studies.

Cultivating original enlightenment: Wonhyo's Exposition of the Vajrasamādhi-sūtra by Robert E. Buswell Jr.

Seeing through Zen: encounter, transformation, and genealogy in Chinese Chan Buddhism by John R. McRae
The Northern School and the formation of early Chʻan Buddhism by John R. McRae
The mystique of transmission: on an early Chan history and its contexts by Wendi Leigh Adamek
Inventing Hui-neng, the sixth Patriarch: Hagiography and biography in early Ch'an by John J. Jørgensen
The Hongzhou School of Chan Buddhism in Eighth- Through Tenth-Century China by Jinhua Jia (a good complementary to Poceski's work)
The Linji lu and the creation of Chan orthodoxy: the development of Chan's records of sayings literature by Albert Welter
How Zen Became Zen: The Dispute Over Enlightenment and the Formation of Chan Buddhism in Song-Dynasty China by Morten Schlutter
The Power of Patriarchs: Qisong and Lineage in Chinese Buddhism by Elizabeth Morrison
Monks, rulers, and literati: the political ascendancy of Chan Buddhism by Albert Welter
Enlightenment in dispute: the reinvention of Chan Buddhism in seventeenth-century China by Jiang Wu
Eminent nuns: women Chan masters of seventeenth-century China by Beata Grant
The origins of Buddhist monastic codes in China: an annotated translation and study of the Chanyuan qinggui by Yifa, Zongze
Sōtō Zen in medieval Japan by William M. Bodiford
Five Mountains: the Rinzai Zen monastic institution in medieval Japan by Martin Collcutt
Japanese Rinzai Zen Buddhism: Myōshinji, a living religion by Jørn Borup

Works by Bernard Faure:
The will to orthodoxy: a critical genealogy of Northern Chan Buddhism
Chan Insights and Oversights: An Epistemological Critique of the Chan Tradition
The rhetoric of immediacy: a cultural critique of Chan/Zen Buddhism
Visions of Power: Imagining Medieval Japanese Buddhism


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 23rd, 2011 at 3:36 PM
Title: Re: Chan Texts: Translations & Studies
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'd add a few others, mostly studies.

Cultivating original enlightenment: Wonhyo's Exposition of the Vajrasamādhi-sūtra by Robert E. Buswell Jr.

Seeing through Zen: encounter, transformation, and genealogy in Chinese Chan Buddhism by John R. McRae
The Northern School and the formation of early Chʻan Buddhism by John R. McRae
The mystique of transmission: on an early Chan history and its contexts by Wendi Leigh Adamek
Inventing Hui-neng, the sixth Patriarch: Hagiography and biography in early Ch'an by John J. Jørgensen
The Hongzhou School of Chan Buddhism in Eighth- Through Tenth-Century China by Jinhua Jia (a good complementary to Poceski's work)
The Linji lu and the creation of Chan orthodoxy: the development of Chan's records of sayings literature by Albert Welter
How Zen Became Zen: The Dispute Over Enlightenment and the Formation of Chan Buddhism in Song-Dynasty China by Morten Schlutter
The Power of Patriarchs: Qisong and Lineage in Chinese Buddhism by Elizabeth Morrison
Monks, rulers, and literati: the political ascendancy of Chan Buddhism by Albert Welter
Enlightenment in dispute: the reinvention of Chan Buddhism in seventeenth-century China by Jiang Wu
Eminent nuns: women Chan masters of seventeenth-century China by Beata Grant
The origins of Buddhist monastic codes in China: an annotated translation and study of the Chanyuan qinggui by Yifa, Zongze
Sōtō Zen in medieval Japan by William M. Bodiford
Five Mountains: the Rinzai Zen monastic institution in medieval Japan by Martin Collcutt
Japanese Rinzai Zen Buddhism: Myōshinji, a living religion by Jørn Borup

Works by Bernard Faure:
The will to orthodoxy: a critical genealogy of Northern Chan Buddhism
Chan Insights and Oversights: An Epistemological Critique of the Chan Tradition
The rhetoric of immediacy: a cultural critique of Chan/Zen Buddhism
Visions of Power: Imagining Medieval Japanese Buddhism


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 22nd, 2011 at 5:31 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jinzang,

If what you said were true about teachers making sure everyone got it right there couldn't exist any schools within Buddhism as all would agree. But there are not just many traditions generally but within Zen you find quite a lot of disagreements between groups and teachers. If it is a matter of making sure somebody properly understands the teaching there should be exams, tests and diplomas, but that is only a modern phenomenon in East Asian Buddhism that people study at universities. Also, if understanding can be measured one could even take online tests. Then again a personal instructor would not be necessary.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 21st, 2011 at 5:47 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
LastLegend said:
I know not much about this for I am not a practitioner of Chan. But there are stages that you go through. And sometimes when images appear in your meditation, you have to know how to deal with them. Things can harm you when you don't recognize what they are. Having a teacher is to guide you through meditation.

If you are still thinking about sudden enlightenment, then I am sure there are no stages or levels. I mean if you practice, of course you will make progress. So I am talking about progress.

Astus wrote:
Yes, there can be progress and there are hindrances occurring in meditation. That's why from the sutras through abhidharma texts up to meditation manuals they are discussed. A teacher who is familiar with them both in theory and practice is of course a great help. Problem is, among Western Zen teachers you hardly find anyone who actually has such in depth knowledge. And if one is not too lazy to occasionally grab a book all the necessary information is available. Even if one is still confused about something after looking through the teachings he may come to this forum and ask. At the same time it is very good to be part of a community and talk to good friends. A community can give the right milieu for personally knowing each other and a forum like this one with hundreds of members can be a wonderful source of information.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 21st, 2011 at 4:39 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
LastLegend said:
In advanced levels of meditation, one can easily become possessed with no guidance from a teacher.

Astus wrote:
Possessed? Like, possessed by demons? And what kind of advanced levels are there in Zen that you are referring to here?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 21st, 2011 at 4:27 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Jinzang said:
Practicing without a teacher is stumbling around in the dark.

Astus wrote:
What is it specifically that only a living teacher can tell but not scriptures? Also, what makes a teacher? Suppose my friend's brother learnt sitting meditation in an Austrian zendo and then from him my friend learnt it from him and from my friend I. Is my friend a Zen teacher then? And what if I just watched a video on meditation? Would I be stumbling in the dark?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 21st, 2011 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: Faith and Letting Go
Content:
Astus wrote:
What you describe is one form of Pure Land practice. Shinran's teaching is that because we can't let go we have to rely on the vow. If we could let go there would be little need of other power since we could manage on our own. That's how Amitabha's Pure Land is available for everyone.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 21st, 2011 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: Conventions contrary to scripture.
Content:
Astus wrote:
This line of reasoning for the futility of monasticism and that we are in the final days make me think of Shinran who realised his utterly evil, totally deluded situation and put his faith solely in Amitabha's vow as the only way to escape samsara and attain buddhahood. That argument makes all other teachings totally pointless.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 20th, 2011 at 11:32 PM
Title: Re: Don't understand Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Awareness of delusion is enlightenment. One might have to first follow the path of ethical conduct (!), meditation and wisdom, or simply gain insight immediately. Zen is supposed to be the second one.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 20th, 2011 at 6:55 PM
Title: Re: Where are the Gods?
Content:
gregkavarnos said:
Well, Tibetan Buddhism tends to import its Gods.  That said, I personally know of one instance of a realised teacher "discovering" a local God and adding it into the mandala (pantheon) of a traditional protector practice.

Also, and I don't know where you live, but here in the "West" where I live there are many local deities and guardians worshipped by the locals within the confines of their Judeao-Christian faith.  Like Padmasambhava oath bound local gods to protect an uphold the Dharma so Greek Orthodox Christianity incorporates local "saints" and "spirits" (it baptises them as angels) into its pantheon.  Unless of course you don't consider Greece as "the West".

Astus wrote:
Geographically Greece is "the South" as I live in Hungary, religiously it is "the East" because it is Orthodox instead of Roman, but all this is just European politics. I know that the cult of angels is quite popular and they could be fine materials for deities, however, they're very Chirstian in my view and I'm unaware if they have anything to do with local spirits (if there are any...) since angels are common Christian deities and also servants of a higher god. But I find this dualistic view of good and evil, upper world and lower world a bit difficult to match with Buddhist cosmology.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 20th, 2011 at 6:15 PM
Title: Re: Conventions contrary to scripture.
Content:
Huseng said:
I don't think a hereditary priesthood works all that well. It becomes a profession rather than a calling.

The same thing happens in communities with monks, though not as much.

Astus wrote:
It doesn't have to be hereditary. Could be like Catholic priests (western or eastern), or Protestant ministers, or any other form. There could be universities to qualify who can be a priest, but then it would also mean that those who lack the financial background will have no chance (a reason for monasticism, or scholarship).


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 20th, 2011 at 6:00 PM
Title: Re: Conventions contrary to scripture.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Without a monastic community there are priests/ministers/brahmanas. Japan is an example in general, Jodo Shinshu in particular. Are priests better than monks to preserve and spread the Dharma?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 20th, 2011 at 5:18 PM
Title: Re: understanding of favourite gongans/Koans that youve heard
Content:
Astus wrote:
From the koan it becomes easier to see the meaning of "wu/mu".

趙州和尚因僧問。A monk asked master Zhaozhou.
狗子還 有 佛性。也 無 。Do dogs also have buddha-nature, or not?
州云 無 。- Zhou said no.

The words in the question are 有 and 無 and they are like yes-no, existence-emptiness, thing-nothing, positive-negative. And that's why Wumen emphasises not to make of this a nihilistic (虛無) or a thing-nothing (有無) issue.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 20th, 2011 at 12:04 AM
Title: Re: Conventions contrary to scripture.
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is a difference between occasionally breaking a precept for compassion's sake and having a whole tradition not following certain rules that they took at the time of ordination, and that includes bodhisattva precepts too.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 19th, 2011 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Conventions contrary to scripture.
Content:
Astus wrote:
S. Dhammika's book http://www.buddhistische-gesellschaft-berlin.de/downloads/brokenbuddhanew.pdf (PDF) addresses this issue in detail within the Theravada tradition.

There are precepts against magic and all sorts of rituals but at the same time it is found everywhere in Buddhism. There are precepts against music, dancing, working and games while monks may do all that in East Asia.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 19th, 2011 at 4:54 PM
Title: Supermonk - A Buddhist Comic
Content:
Astus wrote:
The writer was inspired by Ajahn Brahm's advice of creating a Buddhist hero who doesn't beat up people but turns them to the right path.
Just click on the pictures and enjoy: https://zarthelyiosztaly.blogspot.com/2011/05/vesak.html.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 19th, 2011 at 4:48 PM
Title: Online Nenbutsu Retreat, 21 May 2011
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/sakura/fuji/sinsei/event/24fudan/Untitled6.html


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 18th, 2011 at 4:58 AM
Title: Re: Lankavatara Sutra
Content:
Will said:
What is this Sagathakam that is not included?

Astus wrote:
This: http://lirs.ru/do/lanka_eng/lanka-sagathakam.htm#sagathakam


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 18th, 2011 at 4:35 AM
Title: Re: Lama Ole Nydahl, what do you think?
Content:
Astus wrote:
My personal interest in this thread lies in not my connection to Ole and his group (since I have none) but that in Hungary (and some other European countries) they are the largest Buddhist organisation and there's not one even close to their popularity and number of centres. Their website actually says they have the largest city centre in the Western hemisphere in Budapest. It was mentioned that there are so many other authentic lamas around and lot of translations - but that is not the case everywhere in Europe, nor does everybody know English.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 17th, 2011 at 10:56 PM
Title: Re: Buddhists in America get political
Content:
Seishin said:
I still don't understand how this relates to what you said; "moving away from Asian traditions" ? But, as we are now off topic, would you mind taking this up in a new topic?

Astus wrote:
Never mind then, it's not that important. Take it as an underdeveloped thought appearing unexpectedly.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 17th, 2011 at 10:53 PM
Title: Re: Lama Ole Nydahl, what do you think?
Content:
Pero said:
Like I said before, when I looked at a few videos of his teachings on youtube it seemed to me that he doesn't really know what he's talking about. Also he seems like he's on kind of a "trip". For more details I'd have to watch him again and frankly I don't want to spend my time on it.

Astus wrote:
They have quote a lot of books, mainly authored by Ole himself. I haven't read any of them that's why I'm particularly interested if anyone actually knows his teachings and not just his biography.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 17th, 2011 at 10:04 PM
Title: Re: Buddhists in America get political
Content:
Seishin said:
What do you mean by the highlighted? I don't follow.

Astus wrote:
Mahayana schools don't keep referring back to doctrines like the noble eightfold path but rather to teachings of pure lands, buddha-nature, etc. that superficially separate Buddhists and are easily misunderstood without proper studies. Thus to take a clear stance on where is the line between Buddhism and non-Buddhism there's a need to establish the common ground and let everyone know about them so they can actually discern fake from real.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 17th, 2011 at 9:19 PM
Title: Re: Buddhists in America get political
Content:
Seishin said:
Myself and my teacher have had emails and conversations with people who believe Buddhism is something that it's not due to innacurate webpages/blogs/groups/literature that they have found. Quite often these people with misconceptions can be very intimidating.

Although, most well educated, well read people understand this, there are still those that believe what they read on the net or hear on TV as if it's gospel truth. Think about how many people think that all Muslims are terrorists. I'm not trying to link these Buddhists with the Taliban, I'm just using that as an example.

Astus wrote:
I'm with you on this, there's lot of misinformation about Buddhism including school textbooks and pop-science magazines. But since Buddhism is without a single authority - while many believe it's the Dalai Lama - the only thing we can do is to raise the banner of the correct teaching (what is accepted universally as the fundamentals) as high as we can. This actually requires constant reference to the basics (4NT, DO) and moving a bit away from Asian traditions in that regard. On the other hand, Buddhist involvement in politics is almost as old as Buddhism itself, this includes dark events too.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 17th, 2011 at 9:09 PM
Title: Re: Lama Ole Nydahl, what do you think?
Content:
Astus wrote:
This topic has been about Ole against Islam, Ole's title(s), Ole and the karmapas. What about Ole and his Buddhism? If there is a teacher to be checked on his status as a teacher, shouldn't it be his teachings investigated first of all? No wonder that it's easy to mislead people when nobody gives a damn about what is actually being taught.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 17th, 2011 at 8:15 PM
Title: Re: Buddhists in America get political
Content:
Seishin said:
Exactly. So they're not going to get very far, but it makes the rest of us look bad.

Astus wrote:
Why would it make other Buddhists look bad? There are many organisations supposedly representing different groups of people. But representatives are never those who are being represented. Or you agree with your governor/senator/MP/PM?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 17th, 2011 at 7:14 PM
Title: Re: Buddhists in America get political
Content:
Unknown said:
6) Drug usage - We as members of the Buddhist Party, in keeping with the Precept of No Intoxicants, do not support Drug usage.

7) Alcohol usage - We as members of the Buddhist Party, in keeping with the Precept of No Intoxicants, do not support Alcohol usage.

8) Tobacco usage - We as members of the Buddhist Party, in keeping with the Precept of No Intoxicants, do not support Tobacco usage.

9) Gambling - We as members of the Buddhist Party, do not support Gambling.

10) Prostitution - We as members of the Buddhist Party, in keeping with the Precept of No Inappropriate Sex, do not support Prostitution.

11) LGBTQ - We as members of the Buddhist Party, in keeping with the Precept of No Inappropriate Sex, do not support LGBTQ.

Astus wrote:
Then who would support this Buddhist Party?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 17th, 2011 at 5:41 AM
Title: Re: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
Namdrol said:
I know a whole crew of people who know this guy personally, who were his students for quite a long period of time. He is not a scrupulous person.

Astus wrote:
Could you share some stories or other information for those who are searching on this teacher and his group on the web?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 16th, 2011 at 11:58 PM
Title: Re: My rant on Hui Neng's poem
Content:
LastLegend said:
Shen Hsui spoke of what we need to do to keep our mind empty or pure. So we have to practice to get there. And I am more interested in discussing about our attachments to this life such as wealth, lust, fame, food, and sleep for examples as these attachments need to be gone in order to help with meditation.

Astus wrote:
A practical and understandable position of course. However, I don't understand then why you would choose a text like the Platform Sutra that is very much about the sudden path instead of gradual cultivation. There are so many other texts on gradual methods explaining everything in detail. In fact, the Platform Sutra (just like most of the Zen texts) are quite useless in giving instructions at length.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 16th, 2011 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
Jikan said:
I think I'm less skeptical about the claims of institutional Vajrayana lineages than Astus is.  I don't think it's possible to put projects like this, or Aro gTer, or the Mahajyra people, in the same category as Shingon or Nyingma for instance.

Astus wrote:
I think the emphasis is on institutional. These small (or not so small) groups lack the institutional system that the "old churches" have. But besides that I find their ways of presentation and spreading similar to those groups (not necessarily Vajrayana related) that are now the great institutions. Just think how many schools started as unorthodox sects with questionable practices from India to Japan.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 16th, 2011 at 10:40 PM
Title: Re: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Yes, I've read some of the testimonials, although my favourite is their warning at the start.

Have you noticed that the mask is $150 for disciples? You can also get buddha statues (enlivened - like a golem?) for mere $360.

But what about relics, blessed rosaries and scarves, mummies, statues, etc.? They're said to be powerful things.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 16th, 2011 at 9:38 PM
Title: Re: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
Seishin said:
Nuff said

Astus wrote:
It's magic. You have to use the right mantra (spell) to generate the required karma (spiritual energy) that will result in the desired effect. Logical.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 16th, 2011 at 3:15 AM
Title: Re: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
Huseng said:
Legitimacy and lineage are essential in the case of Vajrayana.

Astus wrote:
So it is said about Zen. Perhaps there aren't enough scholars in Tibetology to look at history with a critical eye.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 15th, 2011 at 3:33 AM
Title: Re: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
Huseng said:
The fact that it is presented on youtube the way it is raises more suspicions.

You might be sympathetic to him, but his story strikes me as suspect.

Astus wrote:
Nah, it's not sympathy but a good example when the focus is on legitimacy instead of authenticity, on lineage instead of doctrine. There is a lesson to learn here for Western Buddhism.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 15th, 2011 at 2:06 AM
Title: Re: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
Huseng said:
This sounds suspicious:
Earlier this year, Dechan Jueren, already the 49th Master of the Esoteric School, became the New Master of the Chinese Linji school of Zen Buddhism, the most authentic and recognised Zen school in China.
As most people know, Chinese Linji is Chan, not Zen. Moreover, who nominated him as the New Master of Linji? The Linji isn't even a school anymore, but rather just a ordination lineage without any institution behind it.

Again, Linji is an ordination lineage, not an institution. Claiming to be a master of the "Esoteric School" and a master of the "Linji school of Zen" should alarm people.

Astus wrote:
Linji is not just an ordination but a Dharma-transmission lineage too and the two exists separately, for instance check out Ven. Shengyan's lineage. On Youtube you can actually find Dechan's transmission ceremony, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAoVqA-n78Q.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 15th, 2011 at 12:15 AM
Title: Re: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
Namdrol said:
I know several people that have had a very bad experience with this person.

Astus wrote:
It was http://www.cambridgenetwork.co.uk/news/article/default.aspx?objid=53721 of a programme that caught my attention and made me think it'd be advisable to provide views of this group beyond what is on their sites. They call him there "Top international Zen Master Dechan Jueren".


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 14th, 2011 at 11:00 PM
Title: Re: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
It doesn't take much to make up a lineage. One can also just say that it was a transmission from one of the buddhas, bodhisattvas or vajrasattvas.

But I'm not trying to defend them just point to the phenomenon of legitimising oneself through claims of lineage and tradition. This exists not just in Buddhism but in so many other forms of doctrines (教 - can't think of a better word that covers religions, schools of thoughts and such) like neo-paganism, Western esotericism, Hinduism, etc. And all these traditions most of the time lack the kind of historical background they want people believe in. It seems to me that either a tradition dies out at some point and then it's later revived or it becomes established enough to stay alive but because of its institutionalisation lineage becomes meaningless, a mere formality and paperwork.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 14th, 2011 at 9:59 PM
Title: Re: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
How is it remarkable? Mahayana sutras hidden for half a millennium, tantric texts unknown for a thousand years, what is new about it? By the way, he is not alone in being an heir to the so far hidden Chinese Esoteric school, so his claim of being the only representative of it is even more bold but not a new phenomenon either (just think of the Huineng story).


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 14th, 2011 at 9:02 PM
Title: Dechan Jueren and Hanmi Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
A fascinating new Chinese derived Esoteric and Zen group: http://www.dari-rulai-temple.org/index.html " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Historically, Chinese Esoteric Buddhism, or the Hanmi Mystery School, was thought to be lost when Emperor Tang Wuzong banned the teaching. Huiguo, the last known disciple of Amoghavajra, had left China and went with Kukai to Japan to establish the Japanese Esoteric school of Buddhism, later known as the Shingon sect. Unknown to history, Amoghavajra had another disciple, Huisu, who received all the religious instruments and dharma transmission. He then became the Dharma Lineage Bearer. Since then, Hanmi has been underground for over twelve centuries.

The Hanmi lineage has been passed on through one master per generation. Master Yu Tian Jian is the highest and only living master of Hanmi, the Honorable Abbot of the 1000-year old LongQuan Temple in Chifeng, Inner Mongolia, a doctor of Chinese medicine, and acknowledged as a Living Buddha in China.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 14th, 2011 at 8:48 PM
Title: Re: Approaches taken in the contemporary discourse on Buddhism
Content:
Anders Honore said:
aren't the tow usually exclusive of each other?

Astus wrote:
A group of vague categories. Not exclusive then. As Tobes said, it can depend very well on context. I can use any of those approaches to Buddhism.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 14th, 2011 at 5:28 PM
Title: Re: Approaches taken in the contemporary discourse on Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Too vague, too many categories.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 13th, 2011 at 3:17 PM
Title: Re: Attainment of Buddhahood is impossible
Content:
Sherab said:
So dependent arising does not truly exist, you agree?

No such supposition.  The point is when the components ceased, then there is no continua.  Hence, no point using continua as an argument.

The point is that there is still a change.

Astus wrote:
Dependent arising means that phenomena appear based on causes and conditions. There is no separate dependent arising just as there is no separate emptiness. Where could you establish "dependent arising" itself as truly existent?

Components come and go but not without cause and effect. The idea of total cessation is the view of annihilation.

Again, such concepts as "change" and "permanence" are expressions only. Without understanding that change refers to impermanent phenomena it is easy to draw inaccurate conclusions.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 12th, 2011 at 7:38 PM
Title: Re: Theravadans That Believe in the Bardo
Content:
Astus wrote:
An insightful work by Ven. Sujato: http://santifm.org/santipada/2010/rebirth-and-the-in-between-state-in-early-buddhism/


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 12th, 2011 at 5:39 PM
Title: Re: Attainment of Buddhahood is impossible
Content:
Sherab said:
So composite things have no nature and are therefore unreal/untrue but there are real/true connections between them?

Astus wrote:
Like true love between imagined lovers? Unlikely, don't you think?

Sherab said:
So there is a permanent continua even though the components are impermanent?  If so, is it not possible for all components to cease and therefore a cessation of the permanent continua?

Astus wrote:
To suppose a continuum besides components is like saying that there is a body besides the arms, legs, torso and head.

Sherab said:
What is it that previously has no such insight but now has this insight?

Astus wrote:
Insight is a direct understanding just like one understands how to ride a bike. To conceive there is a separate self understanding it is, again, falls under the concept of self-view, about which you may read in general Buddhist books.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 12th, 2011 at 5:23 PM
Title: Re: What is a tantric teaching in Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Urgyen Chodron,

You might find these works interesting:

http://vajrayana.faithweb.com/DGrayCompassionateViolence.pdf (PDF)
http://vajrayana.faithweb.com/female%20energy.pdf (PDF)
http://vajrayana.faithweb.com/consort.pdf (PDF)

All from: http://vajrayana.faithweb.com


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 12th, 2011 at 4:48 PM
Title: Re: Attainment of Buddhahood is impossible
Content:
Sherab said:
"the three roots of samsara" - do these have a changeable nature or unchangeable nature?

Astus wrote:
All composite things (samskara) are impermanent and dependently arisen. Because they're dependently arisen they're empty of nature (nih-svabhava). Also, if by changeable you mean disappearing and by unchangeable you mean eternal, these are the extremes of annihilation and permanence.

Sherab said:
"It doesn't mean it becomes unchanging per se since there is wisdom" - so the mind-stream is changeable because there is wisdom?

Astus wrote:
No, the mind-stream is a stream of causal continua similarly to a river where you find no permanent component.

Sherab said:
"But it doesn't become defiled again because there is no cause for defilements any more." - So no ignorance implies wisdom just as no apple implies orange?

Astus wrote:
Lack of inhibiting factors means freedom, from the freedom of perception comes insight into dependent origination and that is wisdom.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 12th, 2011 at 3:45 PM
Title: Re: Attainment of Buddhahood is impossible
Content:
Sherab said:
So are you saying that something that is previously conditioned by various factors can become something that can no longer become conditioned again, ie., something previously conditionable can become something unconditionable?

Astus wrote:
No. A mind-stream is not a single thing but the causal continuum of mental factors. Among those factors we find the three roots of samsara. If they're removed the functioning of the mind-stream changes from defiled to pure, from ignorance to wisdom. It doesn't mean it becomes unchanging per se since there is wisdom. But it doesn't become defiled again because there is no cause for defilements any more.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 12th, 2011 at 3:26 PM
Title: Re: Attainment of Buddhahood is impossible
Content:
Sherab said:
So if there is no nature, does it mean that there is completely nothing?

Astus wrote:
I think the most detailed and logical explanation of the attainment of buddhahood is what you find in yogacara's transformation of mind from the eight consciousnesses to the four wisdoms, or an upgraded vajrayana version with 5 wisdoms and four bodies. In brief, the mind-stream contains defilements and if those are eliminated, thus have no more effect, the mind-stream becomes pure, so from a sentient being we get a buddha. Also, it can't be polluted again because defilement was sustained by the mind itself therefore once the corrupting factors are removed they're forever gone.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 12th, 2011 at 3:08 PM
Title: Re: Attainment of Buddhahood is impossible
Content:
Astus wrote:
The fault lies in the original idea itself that there is such thing as nature (svabhava/dhatu). It is no different from the view of self.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 11th, 2011 at 2:47 AM
Title: Re: Giving: you have to pay to learn Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Good idea. We should make Dharma free instead of expecting others to do so. Mahayana sutras repeat regularly that we should keep, read, recite, copy and teach them.

By the way, this very forum is a gift in itself.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 11th, 2011 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: Giving: you have to pay to learn Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Giving Dharma books freely exists in the West, primarily among Theravada communities where monks have no trouble giving out their writings without charge. Obviously monks don't need extra income since they're already covered. However, it explains why only a few books are for free: the writers do need the income. Well, perhaps those scholars who are employed full time by a university are not in need of money, but then they may not believe that their academic products should be free. Thing is, the economy of donations don't work very well in most Western communities, like when there are fees on retreats and even for being a member. Again, it can be explained by the lack of significant lay support that exists in Asia. Note also that many Westerners who practice Buddhism don't think of it as a religion but more as a hobby/training/lifestyle, unlike in case of Christianity and such. And when you refer to karma, you might have noticed this, many don't believe in that at all.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 10th, 2011 at 11:02 PM
Title: Re: Mutated...
Content:
Astus wrote:
Or https://buddhisttorrents.blogspot.com/2009/02/buddhist-thought-complete-introduction.html.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 10th, 2011 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: Mutated...
Content:
beautiful breath said:
...don't have that one...what does it say

Astus wrote:
The reason why a whole book is recommended because the development of Buddhism from the earliest texts to Tibetan Buddhism covers about 1500 years, actually the time Buddhism existed in India. Just think about summing up the history of European poetry from Virgil to Shakespeare. Too many details to cover in a single post. Perhaps if you can make the question more specific...


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 10th, 2011 at 7:34 PM
Title: Re: Karma
Content:
Astus wrote:
If everything were me I wouldn't need to pay myself for the lunch.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 10th, 2011 at 7:31 PM
Title: Re: Mutated...
Content:
Astus wrote:
This book explains it neatly:


Buddhist Thought: A Complete Introduction to the Indian Tradition by Paul Williams


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 10th, 2011 at 3:19 PM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakośa, Longevity and Mantras.
Content:
Astus wrote:
The two favourite disciples of the Buddha, Shariputra (Sariputta) and Maudgalyayana (Moggalana), who had superb attainments, died before Gautama. Maudgalyayana's death is especially noteworthy here because he died a violent death as a result of previous karma. And he was not the only arhat who died like that.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 10th, 2011 at 5:06 AM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakośa, Longevity and Mantras.
Content:
pueraeternus said:
The impression I get when reading the accounts of long-lasting Arhats, is that the Buddha meant them to guard the Dharma from behind the scenes, rather than outwardly as lineage holders.

Astus wrote:
Quite a conspiracy theory I say. It's like Anne Rice's children of the millennia and the Theosophist's ascended masters. There are also the so called Taoist immortals and Zen stories about Bodhidharma returning to India after his death. Not to mention Manjushri living on Wutai Mountain.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 9th, 2011 at 5:59 PM
Title: Re: Introduction to Zen Buddhism Books
Content:
Astus wrote:
Anders, you're right, too much info kills the message.

A list of introductory essays and speeches on the http://www.westernchanfellowship.org/first-reading.html, which has Ven. Shengyan's classic http://www.westernchanfellowship.org/what-is-chan-shengyen.html and more importantly Xuyun's http://www.westernchanfellowship.org/chan-practice.html and http://www.westernchanfellowship.org/methods-in-chan-hall.html that are really good introductions to Chinese Chan practices, also short and easy to read.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 9th, 2011 at 4:38 PM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakośa, Longevity and Mantras.
Content:
Will said:
If there is no evidence against these Arhats, only modern suspicions, and there are many sadhanas, texts, statues etc. that do support their existence and function, I will support the tradition.  Where there is smoke, there once was fire.  Perhaps the names and/or numbers of Arhats and the length of time Buddha asked them to watch over his Dharma are off. It seems more odd to me that Buddha would have no competent Arhat disciples to carry on his Dharma for many eons in the future - only the "Dhamma-Vinaya" to rely on.  The Mahayana also mentions Ksitigarbha Mahasattva as the guardian of the Dharma until Maitreya.

Astus wrote:
If there were such Dharma heirs to live infinitely Buddhism would look very differently with a hierarchy and such. Since that's not what the Buddha has established we can correctly assume that there are no Dharma heirs, especially not virtually immortal ones.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 9th, 2011 at 3:29 PM
Title: Re: Introduction to Zen Buddhism Books
Content:
Astus wrote:
Also highly recommended:

Mahāyāna Buddhism: the doctrinal foundations by Paul Williams
The Awakening of Faith: attributed to Aśvaghoṣha by Yoshito S. Hakeda
The Surangama Sutra: A New Translation by Hsüan Hua OR Surangama Sutra by Lu-Kuan-Yu
Cultivating Original Enlightenment: Wonhyo's Exposition of the Vajrasamādhi-sūtra by Robert E. Buswell
The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment: Korean Buddhism's Guide to Meditation (with commentary by the Sŏn Monk Kihwa) by A. Charles Muller
Zongmi on Chan by Jeffrey L. Broughton
Tracing Back the Radiance: Chinul's Korean way of Zen by Robert E. Buswell


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 9th, 2011 at 1:46 AM
Title: Re: Time Magazine "Bad Buddhists"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Are you saying that cheap practices like fortune telling and house blessings were/are not everyday practices in Theravada countries? I think they generally are. And even today many conceive Buddhism as something pure and otherworldly thus seeing such things can be shocking.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 8th, 2011 at 9:07 PM
Title: Re: Time Magazine "Bad Buddhists"
Content:
Astus wrote:
The article is a nice representation of the difference between the realities of books and actual humans. Such a discrepancy makes many confused even today.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 8th, 2011 at 5:34 PM
Title: Re: what is Zen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Naite,

It is all right to make up your own interpretations about whatever you like, until you recognise it is a conceptualisation based on your ideas. To be aware of dependent conceptualisation and not to take them real, that awareness is what the circle expresses in Zen.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 8th, 2011 at 7:15 AM
Title: Re: what is Zen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
A "video reply" on Zen.

if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 8th, 2011 at 2:47 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
From "Approaching the Great Perfection":

p212

You have made the assertion that the view of Hashang was like this, based on refutations like the similarity of nonmentation to an egg. Yet scriptures such as the Buddhavatamsaka were known to Hashang. During the debate, Kamalasila asked what was the cause of samsara by the symbolic action of whirling his staff around his head. [Hashang] answered that it was the apprehender and apprehended by the symbolic action of shaking his robe out twice. It is undeniable that such a teacher was of the sharpest faculties. If the nonrecollection and nonmentation entail the offense of rejecting the wisdom of differentiating analysis, then the Prajnaparamita sutras of the Conqueror also entail this fault. Therefore what the view of Hashang actually is can be known by a perfect buddha, and no one else.

p339n220

J igme Lingpa's insistence on this distinction between the two methods makes the note he attaches to this passage, in which he suggests that the common understanding of Hashang's erroneous method is a misinterpretation, quite surprising. There is a precedent for this statement in the works of Longchenpa however. In his Desum Nyingpo (pp. 155-56), Longchenpa writes on the subject of the transcendence of the consequences of positive and negative actions. There is a famous statement attributed to Hashang Mahayana on this same subject, that virtue and sin are like black and white clouds, in that both cover up the sun. Rather than distancing himself from this, Longchenpa uses the same metaphor and then goes on to say:

The great master Hashang said this, and although those of lesser intellects could not comprehend it, he was in accordance with the [ultimate] truth.

Longchenpa himself was also following a precedent set by the twelfth-century Nyingmapa Nyangral Nyima Özer (1124-92), who state that there is no difference in [ultimate] truth (don) between the two paths, but that for those of the best faculties, there is the simultaneous method of Hashang, and for those of medium and below there is the graduated path (Chos 'byung me tog snying po p. 435b). I discuss Jingme Lingpa's use of this distinction between the faculties of trainees with regard to the simultaneous aspect of the Great Perfection in chapter 7. Perhaps Jigme Lingpa's really original contribution in this note is to point out that there is a scriptural basis for the simultaneist method as much as for the gradualist method in the Prajnaparamita sutras, an insight that appears to be based on comparative readings of texts rather than the standardized rubrics of Tibetan scholarship.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 7th, 2011 at 3:57 PM
Title: Re: what is Zen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Zen is a form of Buddhism in East Asia consisting of different schools. It has nothing to do with chakras. "Dhammachakkha" means "Dhamma Wheel" and it is a symbol of Buddhism, has nothing to do with chakras.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 6th, 2011 at 11:46 PM
Title: Re: buddhist hinduism?
Content:
conebeckham said:
I.E., T945 has no antecedent Indian text, correct?  It is purely Chinese?

Astus wrote:
Yes. That made it to rise among the most popular texts in East Asia.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 6th, 2011 at 7:42 PM
Title: Re: A Critique of "Buddhism Without Beliefs"
Content:
Astus wrote:
The wind was flapping a temple flag, and two monks started an argument. One said the flag moved, the other said the wind moved; they argued back and forth but could not reach a conclusion.
The Sixth Patriarch said, "It is not the wind that moves, it is not the flag that moves; it is your mind that moves."
The two monks were awe-struck.

From one's personal point of view there is necessarily a mind that perceives and understands experienced phenomena. From an objective point of view everything has to be without subjective biases, in fact, what is objective can't possess any trace of mental signs. Thus subjective and objective are exclusive to each other. Therefore mind, as it is accessible only to the mind itself, can't be within the realm of objective phenomena. On the other hand, it is only mind that conceives of both subjective and objective, they are points of view made up "within" the mind. In one's actual experience both mental and material phenomena appear and display different attributes, from what comes that a keyboard doesn't call itself a keyboard but we call it that way, so matter is unaware and mind is aware. But there can be no duality within the realm of experience itself for we perceive matter without any problem. However, when we try to think about it in a roundabout way so that the perceived has to be without perception so when the perceiver is perceived it is also without perception, thus mind becomes matter. Still, believing there is a independent mind is another extreme. Both are based on substantialist self-views. None can serve as logical bases of rebirth. The Buddhist understanding, however, has rebirth as a logical consequence of the way things are.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 6th, 2011 at 5:25 PM
Title: Re: buddhist hinduism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The two Surangama sutras:

Taisho 642 (section of Collected Sutras): 佛說首楞嚴三昧經 (Buddha Speaks the Śūraṅgama Samādhi Sutra), translated into English by John McRae as "The Śūraṅgama Samādhi Sutra", published at Numata. Also translated by Lamotte.

Taisho 945 (section of Secret Teachings): 大佛頂如來密因修證了義諸菩薩萬行首楞嚴經 (The Sūtra on the Mantra Spoken from above the Crown of the Great Buddha's Head, and on the Hidden Basis of the Tathagata's Myriad Bodhisattva Practices Leading to Their Verification of the Ultimate Truth), translated into English by Charles Luk & BTTS.

T642 exists in Tibetan, T945 doesn't. T642 is an Indian text, T945 is Chinese.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 5th, 2011 at 9:16 PM
Title: Re: Meditation practices for the layfolk
Content:
Astus wrote:
On the Japanese side Bankei comes to mind, he was quite a popular teacher then among the laity. Also Kodo Sawaki, I think, taught meditation to householders, just like the teachers in the Sanbo Kyodan group. Hakuin, on the other hand, taught some mantra and recitation practices to the laity. In Korea Gyeongheo, the reviver of modern Seon, had lay students too, currently Daehaeng kunsunim has a large number of lay followers. In China Dahui Zonggao, inventor of the koan-huatou meditation, taught huatou practice to many householders (in fact, it appears that he meant huatou for the laity rather than monks). Same with Caodong teachers like Hongzhi and others who taught silent illumination to many lay people and they were quite popular. In modern times Xuyun taught Chan to both monks and lay people. Ven. Shengyan had a number of lay students in the West who practice Chan. Since all those mentioned are famous teachers you can easily search on their names.

Theoretically Zen makes no difference between lay and monastic, sudden enlightenment is available for everyone. In reality only a few dedicated householder took it seriously. It should also be noted that meditation is for monks. Fortunately, Zen is not about meditation or other practices but seeing the nature of mind.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 5th, 2011 at 7:41 PM
Title: Re: Buddhism & Sanatan Dharma?
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4056


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 5th, 2011 at 5:09 PM
Title: Re: buddhist hinduism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The saying that "it gives rise to phenomena" means that everything is conceived by the mind and the mind is empty. It is the same as dependent origination where ignorance gives rise to formations, etc. When ignorance is eliminated, the nature of mind is realised, ignorance is transformed into wisdom - it is explained in detail in Yogacara with 4 wisdoms, in Vajrayana with 5 wisdoms. In Zen it is summed up as if you're aware you are a buddha, if deluded you are a common being. This is not the case that there is an absolute substance behind everything but it's like as it's explained in the early texts as the difference between skandhas with and without attachment.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 5th, 2011 at 5:54 AM
Title: Re: buddhist hinduism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The difference in brief. Those who believe there is an actor behind action think there is a self/soul. Those who realise that the mind is empty, without a self, understand that it is buddha-nature.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 4th, 2011 at 7:13 PM
Title: Re: Emptiness within Yogacara...
Content:
remm said:
According to the Śrī-mālādevī Siṃhanāda sūtra, the Tathāgatagarbha is void of all defilement stores, which are apart from knowledge which does not lead to liberation. The Tathāgatagarbha is said to be a substratum which is permament, steadfast, and eternal. This consciousness is intrinsically pure, never defiled, and yet its apparent defilement is the cause of samsara and bondage.

Doesn't this mean that there is something in 'existence' that needs to be actualized?

Astus wrote:
'Existence' is grasping a thought, 'non-existence' is rejecting a thought. Neither grasping nor rejecting, that is buddha-nature. Then we can also find instructions in Chan that say there's nothing to find and all is empty, also instructions saying that the one knowing and acting is the true mind. They're all pointers to attain realisation. Realisation simply means being free from attachment to thoughts and emotions. The nature of mind is originally pure because it is empty, it displays perfect function so it is complete with the powers of a buddha. It is possible to talk like that in Zen but that's only for entertainment. That's why there isn't a clear philosophical system in Zen, so the maxim "separate transmission outside scriptures, not based on words and letters, directly points to one's mind, to become buddha by seeing nature" (教外別傳 不立文字 直指人心 見性成佛). Thus you can use virtually any teaching to explain Zen. It is embodying the bodhisattva ideal of using whatever skilful means that is necessary to liberate beings. Of course, if we look into the teachings of a single school or a teacher we are able to pinpoint their doctrines.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 4th, 2011 at 5:50 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Remm,

The thing with scholarship is similar to science, you should look at the latest developments and not at those that are 20 or 30 years old (that study you refer to, written by Jeffrey Broughton, was published in 1983 - but that in itself doesn't invalidate his study of course). For instance, about the schools to which Hashang belonged to we now know a lot more. Also, if you look into the history of different Buddhist schools, abolishing a lineage or teaching from an area is a political and not a religious decision and this is exactly what Sam van Schaik refers to with the involvement of different Tibetan clans. So I would say that the debate and Hashang losing to Kamalasila is pretty much a cover story to ridicule those Tibetans who then found Chan interesting.
Nevertheless, even if the debate have happened it doesn't explain why Tibetans had no interest in EA Buddhism when there was communication between the two nations, like under the Mongol and Manchu rulers.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 4th, 2011 at 6:51 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
remm said:
One thing I took into consideration was the Samye debate between Kamalaśīla and Héshang Móhēyǎn. The fact that Móhēyǎn lost and ultimately "suicided" showed how inferior the Northern Ch`an school was compared to the lineage of Indian Buddhism. I mean, this could be a major reason as to why Tibet seems to have disinterest in Buddhism in China.

Astus wrote:
"I won’t go into the question of whether the debate actually happened, although the very different version in the Chinese text certainly suggests that we might be better off thinking of a series of discussions, mostly by exchanges of letters, rather than a debate. And the author of 10th century Lamp for the Eyes of Meditation, which is all about how to rank the simultaneous and gradual methods, fails to mention any debate. And many, if not all, of the Tibetan Chan manuscripts from Dunhuang date from after the Tibetan empire, and thus well after when the debate was supposed to have happened, suggesting that the decline of Chan in Tibet happened slowly, and for other reasons."
http://earlytibet.com/2010/03/31/tibetan-chan-iv/


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 4th, 2011 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
"The attitudes of the Tibetan Lamas from the eleventh century until today toward Chan have been, by and large, exceedingly negative, except for certain Nyingmapas like Longchenpa and Urgyan Lingpa. The Tibetan Lamas are content with their Indian-derived traditions as representing the authentic corpus of the Buddha's teachings. They have had absolutely no interest in the post-eighth-century developments of Buddhism in China, including Chan, and have had little or no contact personally with the Chinese teachers of Chan and the Japanese teachers of Zen. ... This Olympian disinterest, if not disdain, for non-Tibetan manifestations of Buddhism clearly represents a feeling on the part of Tibetans of their cultural superiority more than anything else. "
(John Myrdhin Reynolds: The Golden Letters, p. 223)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 4th, 2011 at 2:33 AM
Title: Re: God in Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Keshin,

You have certain views you cherish and you label those views to be in accordance with the Buddhadharma. It may not have occurred to you before that Buddhism, regardless of what school we're talking about, has some fundamental tenets that form the very basis of what can be called the teaching of the Buddha. The question is whether you prefer your own views above the Dharma or the other way around. And if it happens you take the Buddhadharma above your own current views, that is you take refuge in the Triple Jewel and not something else, you put your faith in the Dharma at least on the level to be open toward it and be ready to learn and contemplate it. Now I don't mean that you should just accept whatever people here tell you. What I'm saying is that you should study the teachings. Studying the teachings means that you look into the words of the Buddha, that is the sutras, and may also read the explanations of teachers who are widely accepted within the Buddhist community as reliable. For instance, if you prefer Dzogchen, you should first learn about the general doctrines present in Tibetan Buddhism, and it doesn't even need any special transmission.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 4th, 2011 at 12:45 AM
Title: Re: God in Buddhism
Content:
Keshin said:
That doesn't make sense to me.

Astus wrote:
Here are some useful teachings by Thrangu Rinpoche:

"Thus we can conclude from the foregoing analysis that there is no way for there to be any particular single real nature or essence to anything. And if there is no single real nature, there also could not be any multiple real nature, because multiplicity is based on single units. If there is no single unit, there can be no multiplicity. These being the only possible modes that a real nature or quality might exist, we can see from this one method of examination that there is no self in any appearance, no self in any dharma, no essential nature to anything at all."
http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/madhyamaka.htm

http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/buddhanature.htm
http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/Open%20Door%20to%20Emptiness/opendoor1.htm, http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/Open%20Door%20to%20Emptiness/opendoor2.htm, http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/Open%20Door%20to%20Emptiness/opendoor3.htm, http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/Open%20Door%20to%20Emptiness/opendoor4.htm
http://archive.thebuddhadharma.com/issues/2003/winter/thrangu_rinpoche.html


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 3rd, 2011 at 11:36 PM
Title: Re: God in Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
I see. Well, the Buddha was clear about the nature of skandhas and dhatus. Nagarjuna also have some nice arguments against a soul outside the skandhas, if you're interested. It is all right to do some speculations about far away lands and never seen entities, however, if the point is to establish it as something acceptable to Buddhism, it's better supported by the teachings.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 3rd, 2011 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: God in Buddhism
Content:
Keshin said:
I disagree; the story of the turtle and the fish comes to mind.

Astus wrote:
Could you elaborate?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 3rd, 2011 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: God in Buddhism
Content:
Unknown said:
(God is in all and beyond all) and transpersonal (does not intervene and make prophets and stuff, but is not an unfeeling, personality-less, non-sapient entity)
Regarding Soul: Effectively, it's our "True Selves", free some skandhic-ness

Astus wrote:
Let's clarify here then. The five skandhas are all there is and you can't have a self/soul/X beyond them. The difference between samsara and nirvana in Buddhism relies on whether one is attached to the skandhas or not. Thus any entity, thing or being outside (or inside, for that matter) the skandhas is practically impossible. Thus there is no self/soul in Buddhism, neither an absolute God.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 3rd, 2011 at 9:14 PM
Title: Re: God in Buddhism
Content:
Keshin said:
Once again: I don't believe in a creator god.

I can't believe I keep having to say this.

Astus wrote:
I had actually read your post about it before I posted that quote. The Buddhist point is that there can't be any ultimate being/substratum. It is a common mistake to take alayavijnana/tathagatagarbha/dharmadhatu as something behind/beyond the world as the origin of everything. Also, if "God" (with a capital) is not a creator and/or a ruler the word itself has practically no meaning.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 3rd, 2011 at 7:51 PM
Title: Re: Emptiness within Yogacara...
Content:
Astus wrote:
In Yogacara, according to the Mahayanasamgraha and others, the first step is realising that all phenomena are only consciousness and the next step is realising that "only consciousness" is illusion too. Chan is not strictly bound by tathagatagarbha teachings as it is clearly presented by the Niutou school (disappeared long ago) that based itself purely on madhyamaka doctrines. Also, "seeing nature" doesn't mean finding something existent or non-existent. Here are two cases from the Platform Sutra:

On Shenhui (ch. 8)

One day the Master addressed the assembly as follows: "I have a thing. It has no head or tail, no name or label, no back or front. Do you all know what it is?"
Shen Hui stepped forward and said, "It is the root source of all Buddhas, Shen Hui's Buddha nature!"
The Master said, "I just told you that it had no name or label, and you immediately call it the root-source of all Buddhas. Go and build a thatched hut over your head! You're nothing but a follower who pursues knowledge and interpretation."

On Huai Jang (ch. 7)

Dhyana Master Huai Jang was the son of the Tu family in Chin Chou. He first visited National Master An of Sung Mountain, who told him to go to Ts'ao Hsi to pay homage. When he arrived, he bowed, and the Master asked him, "What has come?"
He replied, "Sung Shan."
The Master said, "What thing is it and how does it come?"
He replied, "To say that it is like a thing is to miss the point."
The Master said, "Then can there still be that which is cultivated and certified?"
He replied, "Cultivation and certification are not absent, but there can be no defilement."
The Master said, "It is just the lack of defilement of which all Buddhas are mindful and protective. You are like that, and I am like that, too.

And two koans:

Mazu's story

A monk asked: "Why do you teach that Mind is no other than Buddha?"
"In order to make a child stop its crying."
"When the crying is stopped, what would you say?"
"Neither Mind nor Buddha."
"What teaching would you give to him who is not in these two groups?"
"I will say, 'It is not a something.'
"If you unexpectedly interview a person who is in it what would you do?" finally, asked the monk.
"I will let him realize the great Tao."

Nanquan's (Nansen) story:

A monk asked Nansen, "Is there any Dharma that has not been preached to the people?"
Nansen answered, "There is."
"What is the truth that has not been taught?" asked the monk.
Nansen said, "It is not mind; it is not Buddha; it is not things."


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 3rd, 2011 at 5:41 PM
Title: Re: God in Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
From the Jonang Foundation website:

"Since their existence cannot be established externally or separately,
The realization is that creators such as Brahmā and other such creator gods do not exist."
( http://www.jonangfoundation.org/pdf/jf_rangjung_1.pdf )

A summary of Buddhist refutations of theist ideas:

http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/jackson.htm


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 2nd, 2011 at 10:06 PM
Title: Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
A short explanation for using conditioned phenomena to reach the unconditioned:

"It is like making a fire with two sticks. The fire blazes and the wood is consumed; the ashes fly away and the smoke vanishes. Using illusion to remedy illusion is exactly like this."
( http://www.acmuller.net/bud-canon/sutra_of_perfect_enlightenment.html, ch. 2)

And commentary by Kihwa,

"That which is cured is like original wood, it represents the personality that is transformed. The ability to cure is like the ignition of the wood, it represents the remedy that is able to transform. The "remedy" is actually "compassion and wisdom." The fire is the enlightenment that is actualized, this is "actualized enlightenment." The emergence of actualized enlightenment depends on compassion and wisdom. The arousal of compassion and wisdom depends on being sensitive to the actual circumstances of individual people. That which the actual circumstances of individual people follow is the karma of all sentient beings. That which all sentient beings follow depends upon Great Enlightenment. Apart from Great Enlightenment there are no sentient beings; apart from sentient beings there is no application to the actual circumstances of individual people; apart from application to the actual circumstances of individual people there is neither compassion nor wisdom; and apart from compassion and wisdom there is no actualized enlightenment."


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 2nd, 2011 at 5:39 PM
Title: Re: Meditation for Beginners by Nyogen Senzaki
Content:
James418 said:
Hello Astus, Zen stresses the limits of intellectual thought. Knowledge of the basics of Buddhism is necessary, but in the Zen tradition the sixth patriarch was illiterate.

The Buddha likened his teaching to a raft.  Once you reach the other shore, it should be put down, not carried around.  This is because its not ultimate truth.  It is not ultimate truth because it is intellectual knowledge - and the intellect is a useful tool, but is limited and deals in opposites - yes, no, this, that. This is the problem of the beginner, and that is why the zen teacher mentions the opposites in the text. The fact that you take the text and start analysing them further, breaking them down, and further analysing them is probably not what he intended lol

The intellect is a useful tool - as you say - but there are a few other tools in the tool box that can only be developed when the discriminating intellect is cut off, and that is why Zen can appear baffling at times.

Astus wrote:
Yes, in the Platform Sutra we are told that Huineng was illiterate. Those who made up the story were obviously literate people, not to mention that the Platform Sutra itself warns people in chapter 10: "You must not revile the sutras, which is a transgression immeasurable." Also, considering that to become a monk one first had to pass examinations (it was imperial law for quite a few centuries), it was practically impossible for any monk to be totally unfamiliar with writing and some common Buddhist texts. Plus Zen was elite Buddhism in China and East Asia (few Westerners realise that those who have received dharma transmission and became recognised Zen teachers were abbots of monasteries, that's why the so called Zen monastic rules of Baizhang talk a lot about the abbot but there's little mention of any Zen master per se) that thrived in literary production, you just have to check out the number of Zen related texts in the Buddhist canon that exceeds the works of any other Buddhist school.

The Buddha has certainly told the simile of the raft. It means that once you're on the other shore you don't need the vehicle. However, it is nonsense to talk about letting go of the raft before we even have one. Here is a good example of completely misunderstanding both Zen and the simile.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 2nd, 2011 at 6:35 AM
Title: Re: The real truth behind Zen masters' self-mutilation?
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://myweb.fsu.edu/jyu2/pdf/Bodies%20of%20Sanctity1-JY.pdf (PDF)

Also there's a short topic on similar subject http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=174.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 2nd, 2011 at 5:03 AM
Title: Re: Meditation for Beginners by Nyogen Senzaki
Content:
Astus wrote:
"A firm understanding of the Buddhist teachings is assumed prior to entry to a sodo."

I seriously doubt people who go to any Western Zen group have studied Buddhism to the point they can understand clearly what the Awakening Mahayana Faith, as a primary text of East Asian Buddhism, talks about. On the other hand, in Japan monks first have to study Buddhism at a university and then they can go to practice meditation. Such systematic education for monks also exists in Korea and Taiwan too. Of course, after years of studying texts and passing exams it is normal for a meditation instructor to go straight to the point.

But we do get clear instruction on it, and it is corrected and adjusted at the regular interviews because in traditional Zen the teacher only has to look at you to know what your problem is.

Certainly there is difference between a short text and regular training under a teacher. On the other hand, if one relies solely on a single person who he believes to be a living buddha, that is very much like blind faith. Being educated has the same advantages in Buddhism as in any other areas of life. Exchanging knowledge for relying on a person is like illiterate people asking for a bank loan.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 30th, 2011 at 7:30 AM
Title: Re: Meditation for Beginners by Nyogen Senzaki
Content:
Astus wrote:
I hear you, DN. Scholars believe it is one of the long lasting effects of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenhui 's (684?-758?) arguments against gradualist teachings that later teachers adopted a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subitism rhetoric. Putting aside the whole Zen history, it is indeed the lack of common Mahayana knowledge that is missed by the Western non-Buddhist lay audience. On the other hand, just as Senzaki says, "Zen meditation is the most simple method in the world for mind-training". It's just that while TNH can use a straightforward everyday language in teaching mindfulness for some reason most of the Zen teachers are stuck with technical lingo. I wonder when the Western Zen community will realise that one of the main attractions of Zen in China was its ordinary language (later that has changed of course).

As for the quality and moral integrity of Japanese Zen I'm sure there are a couple of people who know more about it than me to compose proper critiques. The style of the quoted instruction for beginners obviously suffers from negligent wording that lacks consideration of its audience. On the other hand, if we care to make an interpretation of it, it's in line with common teachings of meditation similar to Dogen's (Fukan)Zazengi, what is also full of old platitudes. What I mean is that there is some level of validity in it and does represent Zen, but not in an original and user friendly manner.

If you consider those points I've mentioned after the quote they show how the text appears to be radical while it in fact advices ordinary practice of samatha (breath meditation) and vipasyana (koan introspection).


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 30th, 2011 at 3:13 AM
Title: Re: Meditation for Beginners by Nyogen Senzaki
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jikan,

Look at this text quoted in the original post. Read it like any normal English text and add your knowledge of Buddhism. What can you make of it then? Zen teaching is not more difficult than any other Buddhist doctrine. Its way of expressing itself, yes, that can get pretty messed up.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 30th, 2011 at 12:54 AM
Title: Re: Meditation for Beginners by Nyogen Senzaki
Content:
Astus wrote:
Not much interest in discussing Zen, is there, DN?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 29th, 2011 at 6:10 PM
Title: Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is not just Vajrayana that gains authenticity from sustained popularity but every tradition. Usually it also involves some meddling with history.

He may call himself this and that, it is simply imitating others in use of special titles. And by others it is not necessarily meant Buddhist clergy but also Christian, like the term bishop. It is the expectation that a teacher himself has to bear special features (starting with the 32+80 marks) and other kinds of legitimating stuff. That's why bodhisattvas should care about the Dharma and not the person. It's emphasised exactly because the majority cares a lot more about who is teaching instead of what he's teaching. It was clearly wise on the part of the Buddha to establish a community instead of a hierarchy. But then we see how Buddhism got into establishing positions and titles.

The quality of any teaching lies in its content, I think we're very much in agreement on this. They might call it Tendai, Zen or whatever, until it is Saddharma it carries little significance. The Pretendai people you've introduced has hardly anything to show up as Buddhism, so they're agents of Mara.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 29th, 2011 at 6:59 AM
Title: Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai
Content:
Unknown said:
My position is that persons who are interested in practicing Buddhism of any form will do well to avoid the products Mr Lepine is marketing, and instead to find an authentic teacher in a normal, boring lineage instead of this too-good-to-be-true appeal to magic in your mailbox (and now by skype, of course).

Astus wrote:
The four empowerments imparts the complete teaching and you realise the four bodies of buddha, through pointing out transmission you awake to the true nature of mind, no guru no buddhahood, etc. When Tantra did this in India it was no less dubious for monks in orthodox monasteries than it is today for you. Authenticity comes with sustained popularity.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 28th, 2011 at 10:11 PM
Title: Brain Surgery in Ancient Tibet
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=7,10079,0,0,1,0

"Brain surgery was practiced by doctors at least 2,900 years ago, a specialist on Tibetan culture and literature said Wednesday after four decades of research on the Tibetan Tripitaka, an ancient encyclopedia."

Does anyone have some background information about the reliability of this claim?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 28th, 2011 at 9:41 PM
Title: Meditation for Beginners by Nyogen Senzaki
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nyogen Senzaki (Like a Dream, Like a Fantasy, p. 73-74)
A Lecture on Meditation: For Beginners

"Quietness is an element in meditation, but merely striving to attain quietness leads nowhere. It is like putting a paper bag over a cat’s head: It will walk backward but will never be able to advance. A cranky old man who scolds children for making noise violates with his loud voice the very quietness he upholds. The same thing happens when one forces oneself to enter quietness. It is only when one forgets both the world of noise and the realm of quietness that one is able to enter into the kingdom of true silence. This, however is not what we are gathered here for, either. Watching movies or resting in the park is just as good as sitting in a zendo, if what you want is quietness. Strangers to a zendo usually are unable to see anything more than its atmosphere of quietness; the vastness lying beyond can only be detected by those who know what real Zen practice is all about.

You should never for a moment think that you are dwelling in quietness. You are students of nonthinking—what right have you to tarry in tranquillity! Just march on bravely, regulating your breath or working on your köan. Zen meditation is the most simple method in the world for mind-training. Meditation is complicated and difficult only when one becomes more interested in one’s own opinions and ideas than in disentangling oneself from all traces of dualistic thinking. As Zen Master Nanin once said: “Unless you empty your teacup, I cannot fill it.”

In the beginning, you aim to empty your mind and try to drive all thoughts away. But aiming and trying are also thoughts! So aiming and trying keep you from your goal, of becoming emptiness itself. When you think you are in emptiness, you are not in emptiness. When you think you have discovered your Buddha-nature, you are far away from it. When no thought arises, there is no need to drive thoughts away. When nothing is born, nothing dies. When nothing is good, nothing is bad. What you never had, you will never miss. What you do not see does not disappear. What cannot increase cannot decrease. This is true emptiness. This is samädhi. ‘When you enter into this condition, then you are walking in the Palace of Realization. Never to think—even for a moment—that you are enlightened: This is the ideal of Zen meditation."

Some points to ponder about this text:

You don't work on attaining quietness but you have to regulate your breath.
Students of nonthinking has to work bravely on their koans.
No aiming, no trying - a student has to cultivate zazen to attain it.
When there is no thought they don't have to be driven away, but if there are thoughts of emptiness and buddha-nature it is bad.
True emptiness is that non-existent things are non-existent.
If you don't think you're enlightened you've attained Zen meditation.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 27th, 2011 at 9:54 PM
Title: Re: Gardening and non-killing
Content:
Astus wrote:
The monks would have had nothing to eat if all the many lay people stopped cultivating the fields. To paraphrase an advice from Mazu Daoyi, if you work in the garden you can reap the fruits of your work, if you avoid killing even small insects you reap your good karma.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 27th, 2011 at 3:56 AM
Title: Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai
Content:
Unknown said:
Rather than trying to peddle bits of Dharma like so many commodities, Tendai-shu has focused on building institutions, sanghas, leaders. It's slow and difficult work. It's also expensive.

Astus wrote:
What about translations and other publications? There isn't much of them. Not even some comprehensive introductory book, perhaps besides Numata's edition of the "Collected Teachings of the Tendai Lotus School". Online sources are minimal too. Couldn't by a DVD even if I wanted to.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 27th, 2011 at 12:01 AM
Title: Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai
Content:
Seishin said:
All we can do is practice and practice well. Our actions should speak louder than our words.

Astus wrote:
From Zen history it appears to me that it is the words that matter. Nobody cares if you are a buddha lost in the mountains and you'll be soon forgotten by the people and history. So a proper tactic would be to set up quality Tendai places, publish books and spread the Dharma.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 26th, 2011 at 11:29 PM
Title: Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is not difficult either to sell something as Buddhism, Zen or Tantra. Why so much worry about some Tendai imitators? Have you tried to tell them they should include some actual Tendai teachings too?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 26th, 2011 at 10:23 PM
Title: Re: Tendai and Pretend-ai
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is simply using a known name to propagete one's goods. Trade mark works in commerce but not in religion. It reminds me somewhat of off- and on-mountain Tiantai, although that involved monks. Just think about the many uses of Buddha, Buddhism, Zen and Tantra. Perhaps it means Tendai is gaining some popularity.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 26th, 2011 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: Good Translation of Saddharma-Lankavatara-Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Hongren's "Treatise on the Supreme Vehicle" (T48n2011) doesn't mention the Lankavatara Sutra at all, Daoxin's "The Fundamental Expedient Teachings for Calming the Mind Which Attains Enlightenment" (in T85n2837, i.e. Records of the Teachers and Students of the Lanka) only mentions the sutra once but doesn't quote from it (unlike from other scriptures), the complete Record of Lanka teachers, including preface, quotes the sutra 5x (compared to: Avatamsaka 8x, Lotus 5x, Vimalakirti 4x, Nirvana 3x, Dharmapada 2x) and refers to it 9x. In the Bodhidharma Anthology's translation part the Lankavatara Sutra is quoted only once.  McRae explains it this way,

"Note, for example, the shift from Lankavatara Sutra to Diamond Sutra implied in the account (i.e., in the cancellation of the painting commission and Hongren's teaching to Huineng), which parallels the two texts' changes in popularity over the course of the eighth century. The position of the Lankavatara within Chan was always ambiguous, since the text was more revered in the abstract than actually studied. However, it was generally associated with ''Northern school" teachers. Shenhui was one of the first monks of his day, but by no means the only one, to favor the Diamond, which was becoming more widely popular throughout the Chinese tradition at the time. Hence, in the Platform Sutra the two texts roughly symbolize the Northern and Southern schools."
(Seeing Through Zen, p. 62)

Also, if you take the Records of Lanka Teachers, it lists Gunabhadra as the first and Bodhidharma as the second patriarch and Shenxiu is the sixth patriarch while Huineng is just a mediocre student of Hongren (among those who are "fit to be people's teachers, but will only be local figures"). It's just another thing that Daoxuan's story of Huike in his collection of biographies of eminent monks (T50n2060), where he is a Lankavatara teacher just as his students, has little connection to the later Zen tradition. Thus it is understood that it was Faru and other disciples in the "northern school" who made the connection between Bodhidharma and Huineng to Daoxin and Hongren. It also explains the lack of any reliable information on Sengcan.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 25th, 2011 at 8:32 PM
Title: Belief in Reincarnation Strongest in Hungary
Content:
Unknown said:
The belief in reincarnation was strongest in Hungary.
Of people who believed in reincarnation 13 percent were from Hungary, while Swedes made up the biggest proportion of people who said they don't know what happens after death. South Korea and Spain had the highest percentage of people who thought "you simply cease to exist."

Astus wrote:
Source: http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/04/25/us-beliefs-poll-idINTRE73O24K20110425

Countries that participated in the poll: Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Poland, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden and the United States


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 25th, 2011 at 8:02 PM
Title: Buddhist Origin of Easter
Content:
Astus wrote:
We know that "once upon a time when Brahmadatta was reigning in Benares, the Bodhisatta came to life as a young hare and lived in a wood." ( http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/j3/j3017.htm ) He was then a very charitable bunny who offered even his own body. What is not mentioned then is that Sakka gave the hare some special powers by putting his image on the moon. This power the rabbit attained was a magical way of giving gifts. Those gifts materialised in the grass everywhere in the world in the form of colourful eggs. These egg-like presents are what one can still see on paintings like this one, right in front of the Buddha:



This is also the reason for the Easter Bunny to lay eggs, an ancient tale preserving the story of a former life of Shakyamuni. Such is the Buddhist origin of Easter.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 25th, 2011 at 7:12 PM
Title: Throw Out Buddhist Philosophy / Phenomenology / Psychology
Content:
LastLegend said:
Throw away philosophical jibberish and your problem will be solved.

Astus wrote:
That is the "throw away philosophy" philosophy. Doesn't lead far, or anywhere for that matter.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 25th, 2011 at 3:17 PM
Title: Re: Good Translation of Saddharma-Lankavatara-Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Why would the 4 fascicle translation be better for being translated when it is not even a good Chinese translation? Just because it's supposed to be the text of a school that has almost zero relevance to Zen? The so called Lankavatara School was attached "posthumously" to the East Mountain School ("northern school") lineage. Also it was Gunabhadra who was first attributed with the position of the number one patriarch and Bodhidharma came only after him. Nevertheless, if there were translations of all the different editions it would be useful.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 25th, 2011 at 5:39 AM
Title: Re: Reasons for Rebirth
Content:
Astus wrote:
I find the view I've already mentioned briefly above that if we understand dharmas as instances of experience without trying to imagine behind them any self, self-nature or substance, the whole issue of mind-body is solved. In fact, the question of the sameness and difference of body and mind is among the unanswered questions, that were actually answered by the Buddha (SN 44.7-8) by saying that only those have such concepts who think of the six entrances and five aggregates as self or pertaining to a self.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 25th, 2011 at 3:54 AM
Title: Re: Reasons for Rebirth
Content:
Namdrol said:
Vāyu is the material element of air (part of the rūpaskandha). Specifically, the mind and the prana vāyu are merged and inseparable.

In sutrayāna mind and matter are different substances.

Astus wrote:
If it is just the wind element that is material, does Vajrayana take mind to be immaterial or material? If it is immaterial the same problem stands that you said about sutrayana. If it is material, well, then it is an interesting form of materialism.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 25th, 2011 at 3:23 AM
Title: Re: Reasons for Rebirth
Content:
Astus wrote:
Namdrol,

You say that in Vajrayana they add a third - not known before component, vayu, what makes a dualist view monist? I'm not sure if monism is really a better concept than dualism when both are pretty much substantialist. Also, if dharmas are understood not as ultimate realities but provisional categories of multiform functions within the realm of experience there is neither dualism nor monism.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, April 24th, 2011 at 5:30 PM
Title: Re: Reasons for Rebirth
Content:
Astus wrote:
If anyone knows something better I'm really open to it. If possible please copy it here.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, April 24th, 2011 at 7:42 AM
Title: Reasons for Rebirth
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here is the best straightforward explanation of rebirth I've met so far. From the book The Center of the Sunlit Sky: Madhyamaka in the Kagyü Tradition by Karl Brunnhölzl, p. 183-185.

"Result reasons are used to establish the functioning of cause and result in general. This refers not only to outer or material causes but, more important, to the inner level of causality, which is the operation of karmic causes and results. Karma means that all our physical, verbal, and mental actions or impulses are causes that have effects in the same way any other causes do. In Buddhism, this principle of causality is also employed to establish the continuity of former and later lifetimes. In any case, result reasons infer prior material or mental causes from the observation of certain material or mental conditioned phenomena in the present that are the results of these causes. Basically, Buddhism says that the functioning of cause and effect means both that something cannot come from nothing and that something cannot become nothing. Otherwise, anything could randomly happen at any time or nothing would ever happen. Moreover, without cause and effect, all intentional actions, such as farming to produce the result of a harvest, would be completely unpredictable or pointless.
Therefore, in Buddhism, it is not really a question of just believing or not believing in the law of karma or former and later lifetimes. Rather, if we generally accept the process of cause and effect, we must acknowledge that it does not make sense to arbitrarily exclude some causal phenomena—that is, certain or all of our physical, verbal, and mental actions—from this general principle. This holds true even if we do not see an immediate result of these actions and hope to have avoided their consequences. In fact, we generally do experience the effects of our impulses, emotions, and thoughts, since our physical and verbal actions are constantly driven by them. When we plan a project or do our work, we do not think at all that our mental activities have no results; we take it for granted that our thoughts and imagination will result in visible actions and products. Also, we know very well the strong and possibly devastating effects of certain mental impulses, such as falling in love or declaring war. That it might take a long time for the effect of some action to ripen cannot be a basis for claiming that this action has no effect. Otherwise, it would equally follow that the movements of the original continents on earth are not the causes for the location and shape of the present continents, since the beings at that time did not experience the effect at present, nor do we at present observe these causes.
It would be highly inconsistent to say that some things or experiences have causes while others do not. This would also imply that there are some causes that have results and others that have no results. How could we reasonably define and distinguish between such phenomena? (In addition, for those phenomena that do not have causes, all the above absurd consequences would apply.) Whenever someone discovers the cause of something that was previously considered a random event—as has happened and continues to happen in science—the entire notion of causelessness or randomness is fundamentally questioned. Moreover, how could uncaused phenomena interact with phenomena that do have causes? If they interacted in a purely random way, even phenomena within an established causal continuum would become random phenomena. And if they interacted in a way that is determined by causes, random phenomena would enter the realm of causality. If there were, however, two entirely separate realms of phenomena, they could not interact at all.
As for the classical proof for the existence of past and future lives, we must first realize that if we accept the principle of causality as functioning in an all-encompassing way, then there have to be infinite chains of specific causes and results. For example, a tree that we see now has a beginningless “case history” of causes and conditions, each of which again entails its own causes and conditions. Likewise, according to Buddhism, the present moment of our mind does not come out of nowhere but arises from the immediately preceding moment of this mind. In other words, mind does not depend on anything other than mind as its specific substantial cause.455 By extending this backward and ahead in time, we naturally arrive at a mental continuum without beginning or end, which manifests as what is called the different lifetimes of cyclic existence. To arbitrarily postulate any starting point or a total extinction of this continuum—such as the beginning or the end of this life—amounts to nothing more than saying that something can come from nothing or something can become nothing. Yet this openly contradicts the notion of cause and result as such in the first place.
Further indications that are adduced for the existence of other lifetimes include facts such as newborn mammals immediately knowing without learning where and how to drink milk from their mothers.456 Furthermore, what would account for the immense range of differences just among human beings even at birth, such as being born healthy or with a severe disease, being intelligent or dumb, being born rich or in a slum, in a loving family or a violent one? How else could one explain that some people “have success” or get rich almost without any effort and others always “have bad luck” or stay poor even if they work hard? Why is it that some children can play complex pieces of classical music at an early age without training or excel at sports, while others are never able to do nearly as well even with a lot of training? Even conventionally, none of these facts can be sufficiently explained by causes that can be found in this present life, but this usually just leads to subsuming them under rubrics such as “fortune,” “fate,” or “talent.” The most fashionable category these days seems to be that “it’s all in the genes.” This is not the place to discuss this issue in detail, but if we just consider how little the genetic code of human beings differs from that of chimpanzees and some primitive worms—by just 1 percent and about 30 percent respectively— it is quite amazing to assume that the genes alone can serve as an explanation for all the differences between humans and other beings. To be sure, these differences do not consist of only physical features, but include the entire range of the human mind and its expressions, such as culture, science, philosophy, and religion, not to mention all the mental and behavioral diversity of human beings themselves, who have even less genetic variance from one another."


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, April 24th, 2011 at 3:58 AM
Title: Re: Nonmental Indestructible Element
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thanks Namdrol, you're of great help. Also explains why simply avipraṇāśa is translated in Chinese as 不失法 (avipraṇāśa-dharma).


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, April 24th, 2011 at 1:18 AM
Title: Re: Nonmental Indestructible Element
Content:
Astus wrote:
I might be mistaken here but it wasn't Nagarjuna who mentioned that element but Tsongkhapa. Also, it seems quite unnecessary to explain the efficacy of karma. Third, it is not explained in the text itself nor does it sound really convincing how such an element exists.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 23rd, 2011 at 8:06 PM
Title: Nonmental Indestructible Element
Content:
Astus wrote:
In "Ocean of Reasoning" (p. 355) Tsongkhapa says in the commentary to MMK 17:14,

"Although all virtuous and nonvirtuous actions cease immediately upon their completion, they are not without effects, because when the karma arises, a nonmental compound called an indestructible element associated with karma arises in the continuum of the agent like a promissory note."

What is this nonmental element associated with karma? It sounds like an abhidharmic teaching, however, from the text it appears to me that Tsongkhapa actually accepts the existence of such an element. Could anyone explain please?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 23rd, 2011 at 5:11 AM
Title: Re: Good Translation of Saddharma-Lankavatara-Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Not in English. Strangely enough nobody yet tried to translate it again while we have half a dozen Lotus Sutra. So much for content vs. popularity.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 22nd, 2011 at 5:23 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Buddhist View of Zen
Content:
Namdrol said:
It is an interpretation based on Chan as it was presented to Tibetans by a number of Chinese masters of the Northern school. There are a few Chan texts authored by Tibetans in Dunhuand corpus. One of them is by Trisong De'utsan.

Astus wrote:
And you think that while both Trungpa and ChNN are modern teachers who can actually read and hear of Zen, not to mention knowing Zen teachers, they still base their interpretation on 1000-year-old Tibetan texts? In the Namkhai Norbu quote he actually says that there were "developments" in Zen since then so at least he must be aware on some level that there's more to it than what they have in Tibetan from ancient times. On the other hand, Western teachers of the TB tradition seem to be more sympathetic to Zen, like Surya Das who regularly makes references to it in his books.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 22nd, 2011 at 4:31 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Buddhist View of Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
It seems to me, as it appears in the Namkhai Norbu and Chögyam Trungpa quotes, that they take Zen to be only about emptiness and based on prajnaparamita. It is actually a strange interpretation to me since one of the most fundamental tenets of Zen is "mind is Buddha" and it is actually based on tathagatagarbha teachings. Why they still think that Zen is only about emptiness is a mystery to me.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 22nd, 2011 at 12:30 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Buddhist View of Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Enochian, it is the Tibetan view of Zen, not How Zen is not Vajrayana (as it is obviously not Tantra). Should have emphasised that I guess.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 22nd, 2011 at 12:22 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
To avoid off topic posts: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3886


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 22nd, 2011 at 12:21 AM
Title: Tibetan Buddhist View of Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Based on the " http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3863 " I thought it's better to get a new topic for the subject. For a start here are a few quotes.

We have already said that the primordial state contains in potentiality the manifestation of enlightenment. The sun, for example, naturally has light and rays, but when the sky is cloudy, we don not see them. The clouds in this case represent our obstacles that are a result of dualism and conditioning: when they are overcome, the state of self-perfection shines with all its manifestations of energy, without ever having been altered or improved. This is the characteristic principle of Dzogchen. Not understanding this may lead one to think that Dzogchen is the same as Zen or Ch'an. At heart, Zen, which without any doubt is a high and direct Buddhist teaching, is based on the principle of emptiness as explained in sutras such as the Prajnaparamita. Even though in this regard, in substance it is no different from Dzogchen, the particularity of Dzogchen lies in the direct introduction to the primordial state not as "pure emptiness" but  rather as endowed with all the aspects of the self-perfection of energy. It is through applying these that one attains realization.
(N. Norbu & A. Clemente: The Supreme Source, p. 88)

The Zen tradition is the actual application of shunyata, or emptiness, practice, the heart of the mahayana teaching. Historically, the zen method is based on dialectical principles - you engage in continual dialogues with yourself, asking questions constantly. by doing that, in the end you begin to discover that questions don't apply anymore in relationship to the answer. That is a way of using up dualistic mind, based on the logic of Nagarjuna. The interesting point is that the practice of traditional Indian logic used by Hindu and Buddhist scholars is turned into experiential logic rather than just ordinary debate or intellectual argument. Logic becomes experiential.
...
These two practices are not polarities. You have to go through Zen practice before you get to mahamudra practice, because if you don't realize that asking questions is the way to learn something, that the questioning process is a learning process, then the whole idea of study becomes distorted. So one must learn to see that trying to struggle for some achievement or goal is useless; you have to start from the Zen or mahayana tradition. And after that, you realize that asking questions is not the only way, but being a fool is the only way. If you see the foolishness of asking questions, then you begin to lear something. Foolishness begins to become wisdom. At that point, you transform yourself into another dimension, a completely other dimension. You thought you had achieved a sudden glimpse of nonduality, but that nonduality also contains relationship. You still need to relate yourself to that sudden glimpse of beyond question. That's when you begin to become mahamudra experience. In other words, the Zen tradition seems to be based on the shunyata principle, which is a kind of emptiness and openness, absence of duality. The mahamudra experience is a way of wiping out the consciousness of the abscence: you begin to develop clear perceptions beyond being conscious of the absence. ,,, I suppose you could say that Zen and mahamudra are complementary to one another. Without the one, the other couldn't exist.
(The Collected Works of Chögyam Trungpa, vol. 6, p. 43, 44)

You see, an interesting point is that once you begin to get into big mind - as the Yogacharins or Zen call it, the BIG mind [laughter] - it extends your vision. But then, once you begin to get into VAST mind, even BIG mind is so small.
(ibid., p. 471)

Dzogchen teaches that all we have to do to become enlightened is to recognize and rest in this natural state of mind. In Zen they call this original mind. This is raw, naked awareness, not something we've learned or fabricated. This is the Buddha within - the perfect presence that we can all rely on. Waking up to this natural mind, this Buddha-nature, is what meditation is all about.
(Surya Das: Awakening the Buddha Within, p. 316)

The Zen practice of shikantaza, the Tibetan practices of mahamudra and dzogchen, and the Theravadan practice of full mindfulness of breathing are all examples of the practice of presence.
(Ken McLeod: Wake Up Your Life, p. 419)

Many people are more accustomed to doing practice in the Sutra style, and when they speak of meditation, for example, they always consider it to be sitting with crossed legs and closed eyes. In the Sutra teachings, there are gradual and nongradual methods. The origins of latter methods are to be found in the history of all the present day schools of Zen.
Zen methods are nowadays very developed; and since many methods from different sources have been integrated with them, they no longer exist exactly as they did in ancient times. Nevertheless, even if they ahve been altered over time, they are still based on the Sutra teachings. This is why, in Zen, it is believed that the main point of practice is to get into the state of shunyata, or voidness, and to remain in it. That is what meditation  is considered to be in Zen. 
In any kind of Sutra teaching, meditation involves sitting silently in a quiet place. Many people are attached to that form of practice, and some people have an aversion to Tantrism because they feel that it requires too many things to recite and contruct, and the use of many ritual instruments for doing rites and pujas and so on. Such people prefer to simply meditate in silence.
(Namkhai Norbu: Dzogchen Teachings, p. 25)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 21st, 2011 at 8:18 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Unknown said:
But my point is I don't think there are any scorecards of happiness or path to measure beings progress against. If there are beings who aspire to Buddhahood and/or liberation and making good work towards that, well that's wonderful. For where they are in life. If there are people who used this life make just a seed of goodness worth of progress, that is really wonderful too. For where they are in life.

Astus wrote:
"You should speak appropriately about the affairs of your own life, for each matter you encounter constitutes the meaning of your existence, and your actions are without hindrance. The fruit of the bodhisattva way is just thus, born of mind, taking names to be forms. Because of the knowledge of the emptiness of forms, birth is nonbirth. Comprehending this, one acts in the fashion of one's time, just wearing clothes, eating food, constantly upholding the practices of a bodhisattva, and passing time according to circumstances. If one practices in this manner is there anything more to be done?"
(Mazu Daoyi in Zen's Chinese Heritage, p. 67)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 21st, 2011 at 5:12 PM
Title: Re: Metaphysical tendency in Mahayanists
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

I don't see how the presented interpretation of buddha-nature as only a capacity and a skilful teaching against icchantika views takes into account that tathagatagarbha is said to be inherently complete with the buddha qualities and such and from that view came all the teachings about the possibility of sudden realisation of buddhahood. But it is not just the buddha-nature teaching that has this metaphysical-ontological scent but the emptiness teachings too fall into it when everything is reduced to emptiness, dependent origination, conceptual proliferation, illusion. In fact the no-substance becomes the sole substance it keeps putting on everything or putting everything in it. We could also say that emptiness is the atheist position within metaphysics (against monists/monotheists and pluralists/polítheists) that is the position of "not one, not many".


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 21st, 2011 at 5:31 AM
Title: Re: Metaphysical tendency in Mahayanists
Content:
Nangwa said:
Not really. I actually think Buddha-nature is emptiness. That it is in no way an entity or phenomena at all.

Astus wrote:
Have you heard that buddha-nature is also "not empty, but is endowed with numberless excellent qualities"? You might also be familiar with the Zhentong teachings where "naturally radiant self-cognizant pristine awareness that is not divided from the expanse is known as ultimate reality". Also from the Nyingmapas, "It is wrong to refer to the mere emptiness, which is nothing at all, as the ultimate truth. Thus, absolute reality is the pristine cognition of the non-dual nature of just what is. It is indicated by the words buddha-body of reality or essential buddha-body which genuinely transcends the phenomena of consciousness."(Dudjom Rinpoche: The Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism, p. 185)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 21st, 2011 at 4:12 AM
Title: Re: Metaphysical tendency in Mahayanists
Content:
Nangwa said:
Primordial Buddha's, buddha nature, etc. are symbolic and should in no way be interpreted as asserting an identity.

Astus wrote:
Do you take the view that the doctrine of buddha-nature is provisional and a skilful means only similarly to those who follow the so called second turning? Still, there are others who think that tathagatagarbha is a definitive teaching, and those are not just students.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 21st, 2011 at 3:53 AM
Title: Re: Metaphysical tendency in Mahayanists
Content:
Astus wrote:
Greg, don't misunderstand me, I'm not attacking tathagatagarbha teachings but actually subscribe to them as a follower of the Buddha-mind School (i.e. Zen). Nevertheless, the concepts of Buddha-mind, original purity, etc. are literally substantialist teachings. Here is something to ponder in that regard (Platform Sutra, ch. 8, tr. by John R. McRae):

[Xingchang] said, “Your disciple has been reading the Nirvana Sutra constantly, but I do not understand its doctrines of permanence and impermanence. I beg Your Reverence, in your compassion, to explain these for me briefly.”
The master said, “That which is impermanent is the buddha-nature. That which has permanence is all the good and evil dharmas and the mind of discrimination.”
[Xingchang] said, “What Your Reverence has said is quite different from the text of the sutra. ... The sutra teaches that the buddha-nature is permanent, but Your Reverence says it is impermanent. [The sutra says that] the good and evil dharmas and the mind of bodhi are all impermanent, but Your Reverence says they are permanent. This difference has made this student even more confused!”
The master said, “Do you understand? If the buddha-nature were permanent, then no matter what good and evil dharmas one explained, not a single person throughout the entire eon would generate bodhicitta. Therefore, I preach that it is impermanent. This is precisely the Way of true permanence preached by the Buddha. Furthermore, if all the dharmas were impermanent, then everything would have its own self-nature that would experience birth and death, and those true and permanent natures would not be omnipresent. Therefore, I preach that they are permanent, which is precisely the true doctrine of impermanence preached by the Buddha. Because ordinary people and heretics are attached to false permanence and those of the two vehicles consider permanence to be impermanence, together forming the eight confusions, the Buddha in the authoritative teaching of the Nirvana [Sutra] destroyed their prejudices and revealed his explanation of true permanence, the true bliss, the true self, and true purity. You are now relying on the words but going against the meaning. With an annihilationist impermanence and a deterministic permanence, you have misunderstood the Buddha’s last words.”

As for the mystical and esoteric, they might have some value in being cryptic, but I find that the case is rather that integrating a contradictory teaching requires only the right amount of explanation. Like, the sutra says one thing but actually it means another thing. This is creative exegesis.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 21st, 2011 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Meeting of Minds - A Dialogue on Tibetan and Chinese Buddhism



From May 1st through the 3rd, 1998, His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama and Venerable Chan Master Sheng Yen presented In the Spirit of Manjushri: the Wisdom Teachings of Buddhism at the Roseland in New York. Sponsored by Tibet House New York and the Dharma Drum Mountain Buddhist Association, this event drew some 2,500 people from all Buddhist traditions, as well as scholars of medicine, psychology, education, and comparative religion from around the world.

Full Text:

http://www.dharmadrum.org/content/chan_garden/chan_garden2.aspx?sn=38
http://www.shengyen.org/UpFile/FlashBookENFile/E-1%20Meeting%20of%20Minds.pdf


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Counter-literature to the common-Zen:

Yongming Yanshou's Conception of Chan in the Zongjing lu: A Special Transmission Within the Scriptures


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 9:13 PM
Title: Re: Metaphysical tendency in Mahayanists
Content:
Astus wrote:
What I mean is that when ultimate reality is talked about as a thing, or more than that even as a living being, it is hardly different from any atmavadin or substantialist view. Buddha-nature/mind is described as original purity (never defiled in sentient beings), as original source (from what all arises and returns to), as the final subject (who experiences everything), as the true doer (what makes a body alive). These are views that appear as universal and personal bases of existence.

By strict criticism I meant analysis based on any classical Buddhist system (abhidharma, madhyamaka, yogacara).

"Long ago, before the split between samsara and nirvana occurred, within the basic spaciousness that is the natural state of everything, exactly as it was since the beginning, glorious Samantabhadra, the self-existing buddha of natural awareness, awakened to true enlightenment in the nature of equality - the very state within which both samsara and nirvana first arise and then again subside. This is why he is known as the primordial buddha, original protector, and as the universal forefather of all samsara and nirvana."
(Wellsprings of the Great Perfection, p. 13)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 7:43 PM
Title: Re: Metaphysical tendency in Mahayanists
Content:
Anders Honore said:
The key is whether they fundamentally hold to this though.

ie, in Zen "all things return to the one, yet do not even hold to the one." Madhymika is elegant in the sense that the structure of its own arguments quite logically undermines itself as being any kind of ultimate or fundamentally true position as well. Other methods of presentation may not have quite the same intellectual elegance, but the same pattern can be found.

Astus wrote:
True. However, Zen is not a unified teaching but a group of different teachings. Some teachers teach this, others teach that. And even when it is said that no nature is true nature it makes no difference when it comes to the concept that all phenomena are manifestations of buddha-mind and that original enlightenment is the true characteristic of mind.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 7:39 PM
Title: Re: Metaphysical tendency in Mahayanists
Content:
Astus wrote:
Greg,

Surely there are further explanations about those terms that makes them fit for a middle way view. However, if we apply a strict criticism of them we find them refuted as skilful means only because they are apparently reificating concepts that objectify nirvana. The same could be said about Abhidhamma with its nibbana-dhamma/dhatu and they too say it is anatta. On the other hand it is similar to misunderstanding selflessness and emptiness as nihilism.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 7:24 PM
Title: Re: Metaphysical tendency in Mahayanists
Content:
Astus wrote:
There's actually a whole movement called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Buddhism based on refuting what they call dhatu-vada where dhatu stands for an underlying absolute as the source and basis of all (like the dharmadhatu).

I wouldn't say it's just the less talented students who misunderstand certain teachings. In Zen the mind is regarded as the source of all, in Huayan it is the Dharmadhatu, in Mind Only it is the alayavijnana, etc. Vajrayana also has some similar concepts with Primordial Buddha and nature of mind.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 6:26 PM
Title: Re: Metaphysical tendency in Mahayanists
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is justified in many cases.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 6:06 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
DN,

There is a split in EA Buddhism. On one hand there are those who focus on practice only and rely heavily on a teacher. And there are the scholars who may or may not be Buddhists, can read in one or more canonical languages and study scriptures. Indeed, I find that while there are many translations from Tibetan works there is little publication of scholarly studies of Tibetan Buddhism unlike in the case of EA Buddhism where translations come in smaller quantity but studies (of good quality) come in pretty high numbers. And while translations of Tsongkhapa or Longchenpa are interesting for students of TB there are only a handful of EAB followers who would read a 500 p. study on the evolution of Guanyin or on early Chan. There is also significant lack of important works of EAB in English, for instance the most popular sutras are available but there are no commentaries; there are almost no translations of Tiantai, Huayan, Sanlun and Faxian treatises that formed the intellectual basis of EAB. Also, you can't really find any Buddhist teacher giving lectures on them in English. On the other hand, TB teachers do lecture on shastras. It is interesting how intellectual power is arranged in different ways in TB and EAB; in this I think Theravada has the middle ground. This is of course the Western situation. However, for instance in Hungary where translations are rare, both TB and Zen followers are focused only on practice and they have little knowledge even of their own traditions.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 4:17 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Pero said:
A lot more doesn't necessarily mean learn EA Buddhism. I don't know why you think it should. Tibetan Buddhism is vast. A life time is perhaps not sufficient to learn everything there is in it (nor is it necessary), so why would people bother learning other forms of Buddhism? It's a different matter if you have some intellectual curiosity or some other special reason but in general I think there is no need. Better to study one thing and study that well.

Astus wrote:
I'm not trying to make a policy here that everybody has to learn EA Buddhism. Indeed, EA Buddhism is such a vast subject that there's hardly anyone who is familiar with all of it even on a medium level. What is raised here as a question is the apparent ignoring of it even by modern teachers. A general, introductory level is not a big thing. Of course, it could mess up some traditional ideas about what sutrayana is.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 3:01 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Kyosan said:
Perhaps the Tibetan teachers don't know much about forms of Buddhism outside of Tibet because they don't need to know. For them to teach the dharma they don't need to know about every form of Buddhism that exists. But, if they have students from other schools inside of Tibet, I think they'll be able to communicate better with them if they are knowledgeable about those schools. They'll have a better idea what experiences the students have had and what terminology they are familiar with.

The belief that Tibetan Buddhism is superior could be a part of it, but it's not necessary always the case.

Astus wrote:
I don't thing the reason that they don't need to know it is sufficient to neglect other forms of Buddhism. They learn about many forms of Hindu doctrines including those that are not relevant today any more. They study Vaibhasika and Sautrantika teachings that have no followers today. They study Yogacara and Pramana that are in the end serve only to culminate in Madhyamaka what is also put aside as a theoretical thing compared to the practical Vajrayana. They also learn the lower tantric doctrines to be ultimately overthrown by Anuttarayoga.

Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche explains ( http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-BH/bh117479.htm ):

"About 100 volumes of what the Buddha, himself, taught, the extensive sutras and the profound tantras, are in print. The commentaries on these, written by the panditas and great masters of the past, also have commentaries written about these commentaries. Some of the commentaries on the sutras, the tantras, and the different sciences and philosophies have innumerable commentaries. In this way, there is a tremendous amount of literature composed by the masters of India and Tibet. It id best if one is able to study all of these and get a complete understanding through learning, personal experience, and practice. The scriptures have great beneficial effects and great blessings. If one is to become a great teacher in a monastic college, one should possess the nine attributes of a noble person or sublime being. For example, one should be skilled in compassion, debate, and elaboration, in study, contemplation, in practice, in wisdom and noble character, and have a pure and excellent attitude. In order to become a great teacher able to expound all these different philosophies, or if one is studying in a Buddhist college, it is indispensable to learn all these things. But, if one is a householder with a family and no time to devote one’s entire life to these studies, then a vast theoretical understanding should not be emphasized. On the contrary, the experience through practice is more beneficial. In such a case it is unimportant to go through this vastly detailed learning, but rather more important to condense all the teachings into a very short and precise one. If one stayed alone in a cave and practiced one-pointedly, then all this vast learning would be inconsequential. Therefore, the pointing out instruction of the old lady means that all the teachings have been condensed into just a few essential lines of text which contain the vital point, the secret or key point, or how the mind is. If one case take such an instruction to heart, then it is more beneficial for one’s mind than all the scriptures."

So it is possible to restrict one's knowledge to just the essentials. But those who have the time and energy should learn a lot more.

It should also be noted that in the Yuan (1271–1368) and Qing (1644–1911) dynasties the "official" (imperial) religion in China was Tibetan Buddhism (mainly Sakya and Gelug). Also today the different Buddhist schools come close to each other (esp. in California).


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Will said:
So Chan is Dzogchen lite? or a needed (or helpful) preliminary to DZ?

Astus wrote:
In that text it is said that there is gradual sutrayana, sudden sutrayana (i.e. Zen) and then there is vajrayana. So in that view Zen comes above all other sutrayana but below the lowest mantrayana. Dzogchen is of course the top of all tantra. This is what that text says in brief.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 1:37 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Namdrol said:
Pure Land, Chan, and Tientai are sutrayana.

Shingon is Vajrayana up to yogatantra.

Astus wrote:
Is that a problem? Don't they study sutras? Indeed, the Tibetan understanding of sutrayana (and vajrayana) doesn't match exactly the different EA interpretations, plus the difference in taxonomy. But I don't see why that is a hindrance. Actually, because of the differences it might be worth understanding.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 20th, 2011 at 12:01 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kyosan,

I don't think they should convert to any EA school, that's not really the question I think. But rather the interest in other forms of Buddhism. For instance I've heard about a plan that they translated the Pali Canon to Tibetan. That's great. However, I don't see Tibetan teachers addressing the issue of other Buddhist schools outside of the Tibetan ones. They are good to discuss Hinayana, Mahayana, Kagyu, Sakya, etc. but no mention of Pure Land, Chan, Tiantai or Shingon. Maybe they haven't heard about them? I doubt that, especially as many know English and even Chinese. To give an example, it is not expected at all from a Nyingma master to become a Gelug or Kagyu lama but definitely he should be somewhat familiar with their teachings, especially when they do some comparisons between the teachings.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 19th, 2011 at 7:30 PM
Title: Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Why is it that Tibetan Buddhists are hardly ever care about East Asian Buddhism? We can see that in China, Korea and Japan there are newer groups appearing in the name of a Tibetan school just like in Western countries. Even before the 50s there were Chinese and Japanese Buddhists and scholars studying Tibetan Buddhism, some of them becoming Vajra masters (e.g. Yogi Chen, Nan Huaijin). Also large number of Tibetan texts have been translated to Chinese and Japanese. And if we look at the Western situation, those who follow a Tibetan lineage show little interest in understanding East Asian Buddhism, perhaps because they simply identify it with Zen just as they did in Tibet a thousand years ago (and do today without considering time as in Namkhai Norbu's "Dzogchen and Zen" essay). In China the Mantrayana (both EA and Tibetan forms) are considered part of general Buddhism that one may study. On the other hand, it seems that within Tibetan Buddhism the existence of East Asian Buddhism is completely ignored. Why?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 19th, 2011 at 4:03 PM
Title: Re: Favorite Pure Land Quotes
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Even the good person is born in the Pure Land, so without question is the person who is evil"
(Tannisho, ch. 3)


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 18th, 2011 at 5:03 PM
Title: Re: Where are the Gods?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Will,

Thanks for the quote. I'm not trying to fit it into any scientific view but the view of modern humans what is influenced by science and other factors. But I could simply ask: what is it that you believe? It is obvious from Buddhism in different lands that Indian gods easily got out of currency to be replaced by local ones. What local deities would replace them in the West, if that happened at all? Or, since bodhisattvas and buddhas are not that much bound by culture, for Mahayana followers there is no dealing with gods?


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, April 17th, 2011 at 6:23 PM
Title: Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm sorry if any of you was offended by my accusation. Frankly, certain posts really look like ads. But that might be just my suspicious mind.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 16th, 2011 at 9:02 PM
Title: Re: The ground of empty appearances
Content:
Astus wrote:
As there is no mind without function and mind is eternal emptiness it's all easier to say there is dependent existence from which comes neither being nor non-being. Dependent existence itself doesn't rule out the relative reality of phenomena. Or let's just say that Buddhism is not for substituting philosophy and science because that simply results in inconsistencies and nonsense.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 15th, 2011 at 11:47 PM
Title: Re: Where are the Gods?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Will,

There's the practice of devanusmrti (god-remembrance) but I don't know any related to cosmology itself. If you think there is a deeper sense of traditional Buddhist (i.e. ancient Indian) world view there should be somebody of the old masters actually mentioning that, don't you think? If they were symbols there has been so many commentators and abhidharma teachers that at least some of them could have explained that. On the other hand, it's never too late to start a new interpretation.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 15th, 2011 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: Modern Day Pure Land Masters
Content:
Astus wrote:
Recently the master and I were talking about his revolutionary change from Ch'an practice to totally practising the Pureland path of Master ShanDao, unable to maintain my curiosity I blurted out"

"But don't you miss your Ch'an practice? You spent so many years and so much effort doing it, don't you regret giving it up as completely as you have?"

He looked at me sideways, with that really mischievous smile of his and said:

"You don't understand. There's nothing to give up, nothing to lose. Everything I do is Ch'an. Ch'an is all around us. Could you possible let go of the space you're sitting in now? Could you be anything but sitting here in this space? Of course not! Ch'an is in anything and everything I do. I just don't talk about it like I used to anymore. I don't sit and think about it and discuss it and teach it."

"I looked at the people in this world. I saw how much they suffer, how difficult it is for them to understand, to practice, so I started teaching about Amitabha Buddha instead. And I'm the kind of person who only teaches what he practices, so I had to start practicing Pureland, and had to practice it properly, or I wouldn't be able to teach it."

https://dharmainafrica.blogspot.com/2007/10/giving-up-chan.html


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 15th, 2011 at 4:40 PM
Title: Re: Where are the Gods?
Content:
Will said:
To the former, yes; to the latter, who cares.

Astus wrote:
Urban legends are modern myths. If you read some studies on the development of different myths, like that of Bodhidharma or Guanyin in China, you find that it was through centuries that different ideas, tales, theories and rituals eventually amalgamated into a somewhat complete mythology what now is presented to modern readers as if it has always been like that.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 15th, 2011 at 4:16 PM
Title: Re: Where are the Gods?
Content:
Will said:
On a related thread I expressed that traditional Buddhist or Hindu or Greek etc. cosmogonies & cosmologies must have had some hidden meaning or function.  But so far most responses ignore what that is.  Instead the attitude is "just drop the goofy notions and move on."  Understandable from the modern viewpoint.

But why are they the way they are? Some of these spiritual folk had powers and insight far beyond our ken.  So why present these cosmic patterns as they did?

Astus wrote:
Is there any hidden meaning behind the plethora of creation myths and legends of gods and heroes? Is there a hidden meaning behind modern urban legends?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 15th, 2011 at 4:04 PM
Title: Re: Where are the Gods?
Content:
Namdrol said:
Meditative experience.

Astus wrote:
Does that mean you don't think there could be a common understanding about them? It appears to me that the Buddhist system of the different realms and beings is a good template to be used when analysing different religious-spiritual teachings. But since monotheists lack the diversity (except perhaps with Catholics' saints and angels) and materialists have no understanding of other worldly entities I presume there should be some general system in Buddhism to be accepted and taught beyond simple statements like "there are different realms".


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 15th, 2011 at 6:21 AM
Title: Re: Where are the Gods?
Content:
Namdrol said:
Right, but this chapter three of the Kosha, and we know that the kosha's cosmology cannot be taken literally as written.

Astus wrote:
Yes, that's my point too, that we can't take traditional view literally. So the question, what is it that we can accept?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 15th, 2011 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin
Content:
mr. gordo said:
Those are some real SEO rich posts.

erdweir said:
SEO?

Astus wrote:
Yes, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization. A load of ads you guys have produced here without much contribution.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 15th, 2011 at 3:08 AM
Title: Re: Where are the Gods?
Content:
Astus wrote:
A being cannot see those who live in a higher realm except by magic or other aid, says the Kosha in reference to gods of different heavens. This is actually the answer for not being able to see them normally.

But my question touches upon the issue of the relationship between cosmology and theology (god-lore). As we have a different view of the world where can we position the beings of other realms?

As for the literal nature of the teachings on the realms of gods, in vol. 2 p. 463-464 of the Kosha, Vasubandhu discusses at length the spread of the fragrance of the flowers of a certain magnolia tree situated in the world of the Thirty-Three Gods.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 14th, 2011 at 11:03 PM
Title: Re: Where are the Gods?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'd say that there is no Mt. Meru on Earth because none can fit the description. It makes little difference if we identify any ordinary mountain as the "real Meru" since there are no terraces on it where gods live their lives, etc.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 14th, 2011 at 8:37 PM
Title: Re: Where are the Gods?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Well, it doesn't look like thousands of yojanas high and there are no surrounding mountains of different metals plus the inner oceans, etc. So it is mount Meru in name only.

Being all metaphorical, well, no, I don't think it was all intended as a big over-complicated metaphor. And metaphor for what?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 14th, 2011 at 8:05 PM
Title: Re: Where are the Gods?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it is a legitimate inquiry. The gods within Buddhism are often forgotten although they're integral part of the religion. Since our current view of the world is radically different from those of ancient India and who came after them the traditional Buddhist cosmology is put aside as irrelevant. But cosmology forms the basis of a couple of other doctrines, especially the six worlds. Of course, it could have been possible to ask where the hells are but I assume - based on my own limited knowledge - that we're more familiar with the sky above than the earth below and their modern understanding.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 14th, 2011 at 7:36 PM
Title: Re: Buddhacarita
Content:
Astus wrote:
Not too long ago I've read a partial (some later chapters were missing) Hungarian translation made from the Sanskrit. The whole text is as kitschy and Bollywood-Indian as it can be. It wasn't a pleasure to read. Although the chapter on Kantaka (the Buddha's horse) was so absurd that it was funny. Well, I guess Kantaka is my favourite character in the entire story.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 14th, 2011 at 6:07 PM
Title: Where are the Gods?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Traditionally it is described that gods live on mount Meru and above in the sky. There are actual distances given and so on. But where are the gods now that we have no mount Meru and even the sky ends at one point and there is just empty space left? This is also a question because gods below the formless realm have some kind of physical body thus they're supposed to be somewhere. But where is it?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 14th, 2011 at 3:49 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body Misconception
Content:
Enochian said:
Which non-Vajrayana school teaches that the COMMON Mahayana Trikaya with the ability to emanate 1 billion emanations in 1 billion world systems can be obtained in this life?

Astus wrote:
A bodhisattva on the fourth stage can "manifest a billion bodies, each surrounded by a billion enlightening beings" (Flower Ornament Scripture, p. 733). Also, the view you represent of buddhahood is not necessarily the same everybody else has.

"What are the hundred thousand myriad Transformation bodies of the Buddha? If you are free of any thought of the ten thousand dharmas, then your nature is basically like emptiness, but in one thought of calculation, transformation occurs. Evil thoughts are transformed into hell-beings and good thoughts into heavenly beings. Viciousness is transformed into dragons and snakes, and compassion into Bodhisattvas. Wisdom is transformed into the upper realms, and delusion into the lower realms. The transformations of the self-nature are extremely many, and yet the confused person, unawakened to that truth, continually gives rise to evil and walks evil paths. Turn a single thought back to goodness, and wisdom is produced. That is the Transformation-body of the Buddha within your self-nature.
Good Knowing Advisors, the Dharma body of the Buddha is basically complete. To see your own nature in every thought is the Reward body of the Buddha. When the Reward body thinks and calculates, it is the Transformation Body of the Buddha. Awaken and cultivate by your own efforts the merit and virtue of your self-nature. That is truly taking refuge." (Platform Sutra, ch. 6)

But this is not discussing the importance and meaning of rainbow body but questioning the teachings of other Buddhist schools. And I don't see the relevance of that.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 14th, 2011 at 5:48 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body Misconception
Content:
Astus wrote:
Enochian,

No other Buddhist tradition holds the idea that those who become buddhas on this physical earth or any other physical earth (or did you mean Earth the planet - for if you did, well, that is a very much modern Western concept not known in Buddhism until recently) display rainbow body. On the other hand, even non-Vajrayana schools teach buddhahood in this life.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 14th, 2011 at 4:35 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body Misconception
Content:
Astus wrote:
I haven't heard that the so called common Mahayana schools admitted they're incapable of producing buddhas. But if you have references for that please show them.

My question in that topic was about the meaning of rainbow body. In your post you just seem to take it as something so obvious that it needs no explanation is if there were no other concepts of buddhahood anywhere else in Buddhism.

As a side note, Samten Gyaltsen Karmay in "The Great Perfection" (p. 190ff) points out that the idea of the dissolution of the body, a concept attested from the 11th century on in Tibet, derives from the reinterpretation of the teaching of nirvana without residue while the rainbow body itself can be connected to tantric views of body and certain Bön beliefs.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 13th, 2011 at 4:07 PM
Title: Re: Patrul Rinpoche - Advice from Me to Myself
Content:
Astus wrote:
The poem reminds me this classic Zen koan (Gateless gate, case 12):

Zuigan Gen Oshõ called to himself every day, 
"Master!" 
and answered, "Yes, sir!" 
Then he would say, "Be wide awake!" 
and answer, "Yes, sir!" 
"Henceforward, never be deceived by others!" 
"No, I won't!"


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 13th, 2011 at 3:31 PM
Title: Re: Pre-Buddhist Chan
Content:
Jikan said:
This is something I'd like to know more about--the back-and-forth between TienTai and Ch'an in this period.  I haven't studied it systematically.  Any pointers?

Astus wrote:
I don't know of any study analysing this relationship. There are pieces and bits in different Zen studies, like in "Seeing through Zen" on p. 142ff "Intersubjectivity in Song-Dynasty Tiantai Practice" and in "The Will to Orthodoxy" on p. 38-39 "The Tiantai Influence". You may find other similar chapters in different works.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 13th, 2011 at 2:16 AM
Title: Re: Is the Lotus Sutra just fction
Content:
Astus wrote:
"At that time the Buddha Candrasūryapradīpa, having emerged from samādhi, remained sitting for sixty intermediate kalpas and revealed to Bodhisattva Varaprabha the Mahayana sutra called Saddharmapuṇḍarīka, the White Lotus of the Marvelous Law, which was the instruction for bodhisattvas and the treasured lore of the buddhas. The assembly also sat there undisturbed in body and mind listening to the Buddha’s exposition for sixty intermediate kalpas as if only a single mealtime had passed; during that time not a single person among them experienced fatigue of body or mind."

What is the Lotus Sutra?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 12th, 2011 at 9:29 PM
Title: Re: Shinran Shonin's 750th Grand Memorial at Nishi Hongwanji
Content:
mr. gordo said:
Beautiful pictures.

This is my favorite:

Astus wrote:
First I thought that was the funny version of Shinran Shonin.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 12th, 2011 at 12:15 AM
Title: Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?
Content:
TMingyur said:
Ah thanks ... does that mean that "citta-prakrti" is equated with "buddha-nature" or that the term is found exclusively in sutras or shastras belonging to the third turning?

Astus wrote:
I don't know if the term is exclusive to teachings on tathagatagarbha but in that context it is indeed buddha-nature, the originally pure essence.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 12th, 2011 at 12:05 AM
Title: Re: Bodhidharma & Padampa Sangye. Same person?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Why not say that Bodhidharma was later known as Padmasambhava and then Padamba Sangye? Or Luke Skywalker for that matter. Why not?

But if we want to go with the known facts, Bodhidharma lived hundreds of years before that mahasiddha, he is supposed to have taught some Lankavatara Sutra teachings, practically Bodhidharma's whole life is a legend created centuries later and there is no definitive information of who Bodhidharma was (if he was at all).


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 11th, 2011 at 6:58 PM
Title: Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nature of mind/mind nature is citta-prakrti in Sanskrit, 心性 in Chinese. The Ratnagotra/Uttaratantra shastra is the main source of the doctrine of buddha-nature and it exists both in Chinese and in Tibetan besides the Sanskrit original.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 8th, 2011 at 11:56 PM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Namdrol said:
The problem with Buddhist Philosophy is Buddhist Philosophy. There is only one way to "refresh" the teachings -- realization.

Astus wrote:
But I assume you don't mean that since the 15th century there has been no enlightened being in Tibetan Buddhism, do you?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 8th, 2011 at 9:23 PM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
gregkavarnos said:
What does that leave us with?  Rejection of all texts as mere personal philosophical expounding?

Astus wrote:
There is no need to go to extremes. Critical examination of texts is not the same as abandoning everything. Also, while the majority of sutras in the early scriptures, similarly to monastic rules, are accepted by all the different traditions that is not true in case of the different abhidharma texts that were used to distinguish one sect from the other.

When new schools appeared in China it was partially because of the change of focus from shastras to sutras. If there is a need to refresh Buddhist philosophy it should be done based on proper foundation in the Buddha's teachings. When it is done based on others' interpretations that is already following a lineage, a school.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 8th, 2011 at 7:15 PM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
gregkavarnos said:
For me personally it is easier to turn to the Abhidharma texts to find some factual answer to a practice issue than to try and find a specific sutra that deals with the specific issue.  From there an Abhidharma text normally directs/refers you to the source of the information (normally a sutra/sutta) so that you can get a fuller picture.

Astus wrote:
Extracts are how certain people want to present a teaching. Treatises seem easier to study but they're presentations of specific views. Abhidharma texts are not "sutras in brief" but philosophical works by people who imparted their ideas through such medium.

"While the abhid­hamma is presented as being based on the Buddha’s ultimate discernment of ‘mind & matter’, in reality the classical Theravādin abhid­hamma is a schol­astic philo­sophy which is little under­stood, and which, if examined critically, is full of incoher­encies. Within Buddhist tradition, however, the abhidhamma is perhaps more signi­ficant for its purely religious or mystical signi­ficance, rather than as a guide for practice or understanding."
( http://santifm.org/santipada/2010/the-mystique-of-the-abhidhamma/ )


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 8th, 2011 at 7:00 PM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Nagarjuna, indeed just about any teaching predicated on Hinayana critique, is not that."

Well said!

This requirement of prior knowledge is also a reason why teachings from the Nikayas are doing so well in popularity while Mahayana sutras don't really. Also it explains how practical and meditation oriented teachings are well received while a lecture series on the http://www.bdkamerica.org/default.aspx?mpid=30&productid=28&languageid=2 (Cheng weishi lun) could hardly find an audience beyond a couple of scholars.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 8th, 2011 at 4:58 PM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Astus wrote:
"It would be like those old self-sufficient Chan monasteries where the residents all went to work growing food for themselves."

That's a Chan legend. Although monks did some basic works around the monastery (even in Theravada countries they do that) but monasteries were far from being self-sufficient. Also don't forget that monasteries owned large amount of lands where whole villages cultivated the fields and they still required the support of the local government. It's another thing that monastic rules forbid work for renunciates, plus they could earn lot more in a office than on the fields. And if monks and nuns would be self-sufficient what would be the role of laity? It would isolate monasteries even more.

I think the key to the growth of Buddhism is first in transforming it to a philosophy understandable and acceptable to the "literati" and then based on that develop a Buddhism that is good for average people. This is going from wisdom approach to faith approach. Although it could happen that this model is not applicable in the current situation.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 8th, 2011 at 4:16 PM
Title: Re: Are plants sentient?
Content:
Hanzze said:
Who told that? Many?

Astus wrote:
Is it possible to be born as a plant? Not in Buddhism. Is it killing to uproot plants? Not in Buddhism.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 7th, 2011 at 8:17 PM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Anders Honore said:
ok, so a problem with Buddhist philosophy has been diagnosed, so what is to be prescribed for it?

Are people like Reginald Ray and Ken McLeod the way forward for 21st century Buddhism?

Astus wrote:
I'd think people like Charles Muller, Thomas & JC Cleary, R.E. Buswell, Jeffrey Hopkins, Erik Kunsang, etc.; and Ven. Amaro, Brahmavamso, Sujato, etc., also Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse, Dzogchen Ponlop, HHDL, etc. are the outstanding and influential figures of current Western Buddhism. And I emphasise Buddhism here because those who teach only some form of meditation and don't get engaged in philosophical issues, well, they're not significant in developing Buddhist philosophy.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 7th, 2011 at 4:28 AM
Title: Re: understanding of favourite gongans/Koans that youve heard
Content:
Astus wrote:
OK, let's see the case of the hundred-foot pole.

Sekisõ Oshõ asked, "How can you proceed on further from the top of a hundred-foot pole?"
Another eminent teacher of old said, "You, who sit on the top of a hundred-foot pole, although you have entered the Way you are not yet genuine. Proceed on from the top of the pole, and you will show your whole body in the ten directions."
( http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/zen/mumonkan.htm, Case 46)

Here's a small collection of commentaries for a start.

See T'aego Pou chip, 91: "Beneath this great doubt, one must let go of both body and mind." Hakuin later reified this experience as a specific stage in practice; see Kasulis, Zen Action/Zen Person, 112-116. Dogen (1235-1237) relates this "casting off of body and mind" to the final leap off the hundred foot pole; see A Primer of Soto zen: A Translation of Dogen's Shobogenzo, trans. Reiho Masunaga (Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press, 1971), 93-94.
(Robert E. Buswell, Jr.: The "Short-cut" Approach of K'an-hua Meditation in Sudden and Gradual: Approaches to Enlightenment in Chinese Thought, p. 374: note 137 to a paragraph on p. 355 that is about the explosion of great doubt resulting in "his own personal destruction")

What does "the top of a hundred-foot pole" mean? Figuratively, it is the stage of complete emptiness. When you attain self-realization, your eye will open first to the state of consciousness where there is absolutely nothing. That stage is called the "great death." It is a stage where there is no dualistic opposition such as subject and object, good and bad, saints and ordinary people and so on. There is neither one who sees nor anything seen. Zen usually expresses this stage with the words, "There is not a speck of cloud in the spacious sky."
Anyone who wants to attain the true Zen experience must pass through this stage once. If you remain there, however, you will be unable to attain true emancipation from deep attachment to this emptiness. This stage is often referred to as the pitfall of emptiness. It becomes a kind of Zen sickness.
When we attain kensho, we come to the top of the high pole where most of us are seized with this malady. It is said that even Shakyamuni succumbed to it for two or three weeks after his great enlightenment. The Zen master in this koan warns not to linger at this point when he says, "Take a step forward from this stage and you will be able to manifest your whole body throughout the world in ten directions." That means that you must become completely free from all kinds of attachments.
Look at this stick, this kotsu. See, it is lying horizontally at first. This position represents our ordinary life. With the practice of zazen, working on Mu or counting our breath, one end of the stick will gradually come up, while the other is fixed at the original point. When the stick stands perfectly vertical, that is the state of complete emptiness. There you become completely one with Mu, and ther eis no concept of thought whatever in your mind. This is the great death. It is also the entrance to perfect enlightenment. This stage is void of mental activity. But you must not stop there. You must press on even harder. Then the top of the stick will move forward, and suddenly a whole new world will manifest itself! This is true enlightenment. Perhaps now you understand what this warning means.
...
In our present koan, the last phrase of the case reads: "...to manifest this whole body throughout the world in ten directions." This means you will realize that you are one and alone in and with the whole universe and that you should be able to do anything in an extremely free and positive way. That is the state of true enlightenment.
(Kōun Yamada: The gateless gate - the classic book of Zen koans, p. 217-218)

This state beyond hope, where "there is no place to put one's hands and feet," Ta-hui remarks, "is really a good place." It is a "good place" because it is there that conceptualization is brought to and end: "Without debate and ratiocination they are at a loss, with no place to put their hands and feet." Only then can the student make the all-important transition from the conditioned to the unconditioned, which is likened to a death-defying "leap off a hundred-foot pole." One need only recall  the role of no-thought as the access to final realization-awakening to see how thoroughly that earlier account of meditation has been subsumed by the hua-t'ou technique.
The leap off the hundred-foot pole from the conditioned to the unconditioned is perhaps the quintessential expression of what Ch'an means by a sudden style of cultication and meditation. Sudden cultivation demands that there be no hint of any sequence of practices that would lead the student from one stage to another, progressively abandoning defilements and cultivating wholesome actions, until he achieves perfect purity of mind. The jump off the hundred-foot pole suggests the radical nonattachment, even to one's own body and mind, that Buddhism has always expected as a prerequisite to enlightenment. Ch'an does not deny that it might take time for one to build up the courage necessary to take that ultimate plunge. But its lack of sequence at least freed it from charges of being gradualistic.
(Robert E. Buswell, Jr.: The "Short-cut" Approach of K'an-hua Meditation in Sitting with Koans: Essential Writings on Zen Koan Introspection, ed. John Daido Loori, p. 83)

The top of the hundred-foot pole is the isolation of Hui in a selfless condition. He has experienced one side of the complementarity of form and emptiness, but he has not integrated the two aspects of reality for himself, as himself. Even after meeting the great Nan-ch'üan, he is still stuck in the void.
"Take a step from the top of the pole." This is the test point of the case, which students through the centuries since Ch'ang-sha have presented to their teachers. For our purposes, we can see how Ch'ang-sha is emphasizing the importance of moving on from simple awareness of the unsubstantial nature of the self and all things. With that step, "worlds of the ten directions will be your entire body." That is, you will find mountains, rivers, the great Earth itself, the sun, the moon, the stars, people, animals, plants, streets, and towers to be your own great self.
(Robert Aitken: Original Dwelling Place - Zen Buddhist Essays, p. 91)

The need to go beyond the way of knowing of the Great Perfect Mirror is also emphasized in many koans. For example, in koan number 46 of the Mumonkan, Zen master Sekiso asked, "How will you step from the top of a hundred-foot pole?" And another eminent master of old said, "You, who sit on the top of a hundred-foot pole, although you have come to realization, you are not yet real. Go forward from the top of the pole and you will manifest your whole body in the ten directions." Manifesting your whole body in the ten directions is this second awakening. It is seeing that all things in the six fields of sense - seeing, hearing, discernment, and knowledge - are your own awakened nature.
(Albert Low: Hakuin on Kensho, p. 59)

This "backward step," at once the casting off of body-mind and presencing of the original face, is fundamentally the same as advancing a step further from the top of a hundred-foot pole. When one takes one more step from the top of a hundred-foot pole and jumps into empty space, one immediately realizes that the boundless empty space is oneself, one's true Self that is nondual with others. It is precisely "the Self prior to the universe's sprouting any sign of itself" (chinchō mibō no jiko).
(Masao Abe: A study of Dōgen - his philosophy and religion, p. 144)

Dogen instructed:
Students, cast aside your bodies and minds and enter fully into Buddhism.
An old Master has said: "You've climbed to the top of a hundred-foot pole. Now keep on going." Most people, when they reach the top, are afraid they will lose their footing and fall to their deaths. Thus they hang on all the more tightly. To advance another step means to discard all thoughts of everything, from your functions as a savior of other beings to the means of your own livelihood, even if it requires casting away your own life. If you do not do this and even if you study the Way as earnestly as though you were trying to put out flames in your own hair, you will not be able to attain the Way. Resolve to cast aside both body and mind.
(A primer of Sōtō Zen: a translation of Dōgen's Shōbōgenzō zuimonki, 3.1, p. 49)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 7th, 2011 at 3:06 AM
Title: Re: understanding of favourite gongans/Koans that youve heard
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it is possible to have a meaningful discussion on koans here as well as face to face. It is not a matter of communication form but what one can communicate and that depends on the qualities of the people involved.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 7th, 2011 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: understanding of favourite gongans/Koans that youve heard
Content:



Jikan said:
This is an interesting topic, but might it be better to discuss it with your teacher, in person?

...off to quality-test the cat chow

Astus wrote:
There is no need to mystify koans. True, there is meditation practice with koans called kanna/kanhua (看話 observing the phrase) where one investigates a wato/huatou (話頭 phrase head). But that is just one specific use of koans. Both before and after such practice was invented by Daie/Dahui (1089-1163) they were used for instructing disciples in the meaning of Zen. Although such instructions were generally given by the abbot (i.e. the Zen master) the discussion of them has never been restricted as if it were a private matter. It's another thing that it takes considerable amount of study (!) and training to be able to converse on koans in a meaningful way.

"To begin with, you should study day and night the verbal teachings of the Buddha and patriarchs so that you can penetrate the principles of things in their infinite variety. Ascertain and analyze, one by one, the profundities of the five houses and the seven schools of Zen and the wondrous doctrines of the eight teachings given in the five periods of Buddha's teaching career.
If you have any energy left over, you should clarify the deep principles of the various different philosophies. However, if this and that get to be too much trouble, it will just waste your energy to no avail. If you thoroughly investigate the sayings of the Buddhas and patriarchs that are difficult to pass through, and clearly arrive at their essential meaning, perfect understanding will shine forth and the principles of all things should naturally be completely clear. This is called the eye to read the sutras.
Now, the verbal teachings of the Buddhas and the patriarchs are extremely deep, and one should not consider that one has mastered them completely after one has gone through them once or twice. When you climb a mountain, the higher you climb, the higher they are; when you go into the ocean, the farther you go, the deeper it is. It is the same in this case. It is also like forging iron to make a sword; it is considered best to put it into the forge over and over, refining it again and again. Though it is always the same forge, unless you put the sword in over and over and refine it a hundred times, it can hardly turn out to be a fine sword.
Penetrating study is also like this; unless you enter the great forge of the Buddha and patriarchs, difficult to pass through, and make repeated efforts at refinement, through suffering and pain, total and independent knowing cannot come forth. Penetrating through the barriers of the Buddha and patriarchs over and over again, responding to beings' potential everywhere with mastery and freedom of technique, is called subtle, observing, discerning knowing."
(Hakuin on Kensho: the four ways of knowing, tr. by Albert Low, p. 35-36)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 at 11:07 PM
Title: Re: Restricted books
Content:
Astus wrote:
The quote and my comment on the book is not strictly related.

"This text belongs to the category of atiyoga, the highest of the nine vehicles that constitute the Buddhist path. Moreover, it is from the short lineage of Dudjom Lingpa, a direct transmission of the Great Perfection approach so powerful that even hearing it read aloud ensures that the listener will eventually escape the suffering of samsara.
It should be remembered, however, that to benefit fully from the Nang-jang, one must receive empowerment, oral transmission, and teachings from a qualified Dzogchhen master."
(BWM, page v)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 at 9:41 PM
Title: Re: Reconsiderations on Not-Really-Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think the straight way is to point out what is actually taught within Buddhism and explain what that is the Buddhist teaching. It is rarely necessary to criticise other teachings except when they are harmful, but not being Buddhist, well, that's not a sin. Just see how many non-Buddhist rituals and concepts could hang around Buddhism in Asia. Until they don't hurt there's little to worry about. The important thing is to make clear what is the path to nirvana and what is not.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 at 8:05 PM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Astus wrote:
Yes, even fire is an arbitrary category. Buddhists in ancient India when categorised fire knew nothing about chemical burning and nuclear fusion, nor did they thought of the fire element in terms of thermodynamics. But if we use fire element in the Buddhist sense all that could be included. And yes, it is true, everything is an arbitrary category, a conceptual thing. A good example is how different languages categorise the world in different ways.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 at 7:47 PM
Title: Re: Restricted books
Content:
Astus wrote:
"According to the Tibetan tradition, true vipashyana is to see the natural state while being free of dualistic clinging. Traditionally, this natural state is introduced after the practitioner has gone through the ngöndro, the 'preliminary practices of the four or five times hundred thousand', as well as the yidam practice with its detailed recitations. After completing these, the student is given the pointing-out instruction according to the tradition of Dzogchen or Mahamudra or one of the other traditions of ultimate wisdom. That is the general way, but times have changed somewhat in the sense that many people these days are earnestly drawn to the essential teachings from the beginning. My late father, Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, used to give the pointing-out instruction to whomever was sincerely interested, whether that person was a long-term practitioner or a beginner. he also gave me the mandate to do so."
(Chokyi Nyima: Present Fresh Wakefulness, p. 39-40)

IIRC, the BWM book is advertised on the back cover as an initiatory book that can generate insight simply by reading. Then why the need for being introduced before being introduced?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 at 4:00 PM
Title: Re: How to approach Sutras
Content:
LastLegend said:
Philosophy to you because you are philosophizing, playing with words. This is why you need to practice to experience. And approaching the Sutras is a practice.

Astus wrote:
It is a practice to recite the sutras, yes, a very old one indeed. What I'm saying is that there is more to it than concentrated reading without thinking about it. Thus when one has a clear and focused mind it is good to study the sutra on a verbal, analytical level too. This is integrating both concentration and insight into practising with sutras.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 at 3:49 PM
Title: Re: Reconsiderations on Not-Really-Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
What separates Buddhism from non-Buddhism? On one hand there are criteria for the teaching, on the other for the intention. The teaching can be external and internal, external can be in agreement or disagreement with Buddhism. If it disagrees with Buddhism it should be refuted, if it agrees it should be submitted as an external teaching not leading to liberation. However, if intention is considered, it can be that even if one is interested in internal doctrines many don't care about liberation on any level. So there isn't much to distinguish external in agreement teachings from internal ones. This is called the path of humans and gods.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 at 3:22 PM
Title: Re: How to approach Sutras
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Experience beyond words" is a philosophy, an idea, a concept. So "beyond words" is not beyond words at all. Therefore it is through words one can go beyond words, through study one can go beyond all learnings. Although a map is not the place our path is guided by the map.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 6th, 2011 at 3:11 PM
Title: Re: How to approach Sutras
Content:
Astus wrote:
While what you say is a possible way to read texts I doubt that's the only one. Such concentrated and repetitive reading sounds good for memorising, one could as well recite the text to make it easier. However, understanding a text requires thinking and analysing too. If it is only concentration one is looking for practically anything can do. If it is understanding the sutras while concentration is beneficial there is a need for making effort in gaining insight through pondering and in depth study that can include beyond the text commentaries and even linguistics and cultural things.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 5th, 2011 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Hi Astus, perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but when speaking of the material aggregate, it is composed of the 5 sense organs and 5 sense objects. So for example the sense organ of smell is composed of a patch of atoms that detects the different odors. The sensory data would be the sense object of odor."

That is all right. The disagreement is simply on the nature of the aggregates whether they're things to be experienced or philosophical concepts.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 5th, 2011 at 9:34 PM
Title: Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here's a http://www.meditationexpert.com/zen-buddhism-tao/z_dharmakaya_sambhogakaya_nirmanakaya_three_buddha_bodies.htm from the Bodri website. Quote from there,

"Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism and Christianity speak openly of this trio of principles or "bodies" that must be mastered for complete spiritual attainment. Whether we call this trio Father-Son-Holy Ghost, dharmakaya-sambhogakaya-nirmanakaya, essence-appearance-function, or Brahman-Vishnu-Shiva, they are all synonymous with the same set of principles."


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 5th, 2011 at 8:54 PM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Astus wrote:
See the definition(s) of aggregates. All the different aggregates are made of different sensory data, thus they're simply terms to encompass lot of experience but there is no form, etc. aggregate in and of itself to be experienced. The diversity is most apparent in the different dharmas put under samskara in abhidharma texts. Another major difference is in vijnana when there can be 6, 8 or even 9 of them in Mahayana although it is still called a single aggregate. Thus the aggregates are only names even in the early texts.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 5th, 2011 at 6:42 PM
Title: Re: Ordination
Content:
Astus wrote:
Even in this Suggestion Box the debate on who is an ordained person appeared immediately. Perhaps the discussion can go on in another topic.

As for an ordination forum, since there is little discussion of such matters I see no need for a whole separate place for it. We're also short of both ordained members and Vinaya professionals to give authentic information. Maybe later.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 5th, 2011 at 6:17 PM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Astus wrote:
"the Buddha saw the existence of the five aggregates"

There are no such things as the five aggregates but they're arbitrary categories for human experience probably based on current soul/mind concepts of that era. That's why I say it is a philosophical concept. There are other such categories known in the early scriptures, like the 6 indriya, 12 ayatana, 18 dhatu set; or when the Buddha uses the "seen, heard, sensed, cognised" (diṭṭha, suta, muta, viññāta) series what could also be used for meditation (e.g. SN 35.95).


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 5th, 2011 at 4:29 PM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Astus wrote:
Buddhist Philosophy - the wisdom part - is about the correct view and liberating insight. It is the final practice so to say since precepts and meditation is about reaching wisdom. Its liveliness is a matter of understanding and application. For instance saying that there are five aggregates is a philosophical concept. If one sees those five as they are within the realm of personal experience it can bring about liberation. If it's left on the level of ideas, well, than it's just an idea. But it's up to the student to use it.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 5th, 2011 at 2:53 AM
Title: Re: Hui-Neng Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

If you rather rely on Wikipedia than decades of in depth scholarly studies it's up to you.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 5th, 2011 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: Cosmology
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think they meant their cosmology quite literally. This is easy to understand from the Abhidharmakosa where it gives both real and unreal places and relates them to each other in terms of distance and direction. Of course, it is always possible to come up with a psychologised, symbolic re-interpretation. The question is, is it worth it? Is it important in any way?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 4th, 2011 at 6:00 PM
Title: Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is the gradual path of developing wisdom for dharmakaya and accumulating merits for rupakaya. However, Zen is the direct path of sudden enlightenment, seeing nature is becoming buddha as there is no buddha outside the mind. These are the fundamental doctrines of Zen, and while teaching different methods and paths is not incorrect they are part of the gradual teachings that ultimately lead to seeing nature and becoming buddha.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 4th, 2011 at 6:36 AM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Namdrol said:
I am suggesting that there is a constant danger of "Dharma ossification".

On the contrary, Tibetans have managed to do so with spectacular success. There has not been a new idea in Tibetan Buddhism since about 15th century. Tibetan Buddhism is intellectually frozen. I would venture it is the same with all forms of Buddhism.

Astus wrote:
My view of Buddhist history is that Gautama presented the essentials to his disciples (early scriptures) from which came a gradual explanation of the many aspects until around the 13th century, the time when Buddhism established itself throughout Asia and practically disappeared in India. Then on there were no significantly new teachings but only continuing the tradition. In terms of Dharma-age - in my interpretation - the pre-sectarian period was the True Dharma, the sectarian period was the Semblance Dharma and from the 13th century on it is the Declining Dharma age; however, this carries too bad connotations to take it seriously.

I'm not sure if philosophical creativity is necessarily the measure of a living tradition. Hakuin's reform in Japanese and Gyeongheo's reform in Korean Zen didn't mean new ideas but rather a restoration - or reinvention - of old teachings. But it was a reform nevertheless. Same could be said of Theravada monks starting dhutanga communities in Thailand.

In the Mahaparinibbana Sutta the Buddha said,

"But in any doctrine & discipline where the noble eightfold path is found, contemplatives of the first... second... third... fourth order are found. The noble eightfold path is found in this doctrine & discipline, and right here there are contemplatives of the first... second... third... fourth order. Other teachings are empty of knowledgeable contemplatives. And if the monks dwell rightly, this world will not be empty of arahants."

It is the guarding and practising the path that keeps the teaching alive. There is also a series of talks on the future dangers (AN 5.77-80), later selected by King Asoka into his edicts, that address matters monks should take heed of in order to develop on the path. Another sutta (SN 20.7) warns about the dangers of not listening to the very teachings of the Buddha but instead to "discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples" thus causing the disappearance of the Buddha's teachings. And if we look at Nagarjuna's works their aim is not to establish some new thought but to turn people back to the path itself, this is the expression of the very practical spirit of the prajnaparamita sutras. The same sentiment is found in other teachings that were later regarded as new schools, the attempt to return to the original teachings: not the words themselves but the insight. Isn't that what the upadesha teaching is about in Tibet, a direct discourse? But of course no teaching can avoid formalisation and eventual rigor mortis. That is impermanence. What keeps the Dharma alive is enlightenment, it is revived every time a person gains insight into the truth of the teaching.

So, what is intellectual liveliness? Does the pure citta of Ajahn Chah, the Juingong of Daehaeng Sunim or the Humanistic Buddhism of Yinshun qualify as such? I can't really tell. What do you say?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 4th, 2011 at 4:11 AM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Astus wrote:
Another thing about how Buddhism has changed already through Western influence. The way Theravada is understood today not just in the West but in Asia too is partially because of Western presence in the region. This influence is also true in Japan, plus the development Western Zen communities. Chinese Buddhism got its new impetus in the 19th century from Taixu (whose disciple was the other great master Yinshun) who thought of modernising Buddhism based on his experience of European culture. And I think Tibetan Buddhism had to make its changes since the monks started preaching to a growing number of Westerners, although they seem to be the most traditionalist of all, or it's just that their culture and story is part of the attraction.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 4th, 2011 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: The Problem With Buddhist Philosophy
Content:
Astus wrote:
1. Don't you think it is through studying the Buddhist heritage that it can be gradually understood? Simply by translating a text to another language is a major part of the process and when a term like duhkha is rendered into suffering/stress/unsatisfactoriness/dis-ease/pain/etc. it is already an acculturation and transformation.

2. When it comes to the point that something has to be explained to an audience (written or oral) that explanation must fit the time and place otherwise hardly anyone could actually understand it. In fact, it is quite impossible to present Buddhism as if it were a frozen object.

(3.) It is a Western concept that it is possible at all to have a fixed history and museums can show and preserve the past for the present. The very act of displaying something in a museum transforms the object. But this is just a side note.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 4th, 2011 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huangbo (Wanling Record) answers the questions on the trikaya and the different practices necessary:

佛真法身猶若虛空。不用別求。有求皆苦。設使恒沙劫行六度萬行得佛菩提。亦非究竟。何以故。為屬因緣造作故。因緣若盡還歸無常。所以云。報化非真佛。亦非說法者。但識自心。無我無人本來是佛。(T48n2012Bp0384b04-08)

"Therefore, the real Dharmakaya is just voidness. It is not necessary to seek anything whatsoever, and all who do continue to seek for something only prolong their suffering in samsara. Even if they were to practice the Six Paramitas for as many numberless kalpas as there are sandgrains in the Ganges River, they would still not reach the Supreme Stage. And why not? Just because such practice depends on primary and secondary causes, and when these causes separate, the practitioner of this path will still have only reached a stage of impermanence. Therefore, even the Sambhogakaya and the Nirmanakaya are not the real Buddha. Also, the one who spreads Dharma is not the real Buddha. In reality, therefore, everybody should recognize that only one's own Mind is the Original Buddha."


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 2nd, 2011 at 5:44 AM
Title: Re: Dennis Genpo Merzel disrobes as a Zen priest
Content:
Astus wrote:
Since Western Zen doesn't address all the emotional and communal aspects present thus generating cults and gurus again and again there can hardly be any rules laid down - especially in a not institutionalised and individualistic environment - that will force the necessary changes. Meditation clubs are not temples - much less monasteries - and meditation trainers are not Buddhist teachers.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 2nd, 2011 at 5:26 AM
Title: Re: Other Buddhas
Content:
Namdrol said:
In the case of the Pali canon, did they add new texts?

Astus wrote:
I thought I remembered where I had read that the works of Mahasi Sayadaw was published in the latest edition of the Burmese canon but now I can't find it. Although I've read that about a year ago. But as I was searching for it I've found a study by Ven. Analayo - who is one of the few monks focusing the early scriptures (all canons included) - written on http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/fileadmin/pdf/publikationen/HamburgUP_HBS01_Analayo.pdf, a valuable extra to the works already mentioned.

An article by Ven. Sujato addresses the issue of history and myth:

"It’s time. We need a new paradigm. Buddhism is suffering from schizo­phrenia; there is a split in consciousness between the historical and the mythic concep­tions of the origin of the Dhamma. For 2500 years Buddhism has been constantly changing, adapting, evolving; yet the myths of the schools insist that the Dhamma remains the same. All existing schools of Buddhism justify their idiosyn­cratic doctrines mytho­lo­gically; this is what all religions do. Thus the Theravada insists that the Abhid­hamma was taught by the Buddha in Tāvatiṁsa heaven during his seventh rains retreat. The Mahayana claims that the Mahayana sutras were written down in the time of the Buddha, preserved in the dragon world under the sea, then retreived by Nagarjuna 500 years later. Zen claims authority from an esoteric oral trans­mission outside the scrip­tures descended from Maha Kassapa, symbolized by the smile of Maha Kassapa when the Buddha held up a lotus. All of these are myths, and do not deserve serious consid­er­ation as explan­a­tions of historical truth. Their purpose, as myths, is not to elucidate facts, but to authorize religious convictions."
http://santifm.org/santipada/2010/its-time/


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 2nd, 2011 at 3:33 AM
Title: Re: Other Buddhas
Content:
Astus wrote:
That kind of wager was used even before Nagarjuna by Gautama himself: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.060.than.html.

"The Nyingmapa tradition never closed their canon."

I don't know if there is actually any Buddhist canon that is closed. Just in the 20th century new, revised versions of both East Asian and Theravada canons were published. In fact, in East Asia there is no ultimate canon only groups of texts published at different times.

"The Mahāprājñā-pāramitôpadeśa by Nāgārjuna briefly addresses this by explaining that one can infer the existence of other Buddhas."

Inferring the existence of other buddhas and reporting on individual buddhas in neighbouring realms are not exactly the same thing. Just like it sounds a generally acceptable supposition that because there is life on this planet there are other planets with intelligent beings on them, but reporting on the life of the Queen of Naboo is a quite different matter.

"it's not a matter of whether there are Buddhas mentioned or not but rather perhaps more confined to whose list of Buddhas are more 'authentic'"

While there was considerable efforts made for the propagation of worshipping this and that buddha I find that it was hardly a sectarian issue. Although there could have been incidents.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 1st, 2011 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Other Buddhas
Content:
Astus wrote:
So we can say that the teaching is dependently originated too, just as the teachings are taught dependent on circumstances. This is a nice explanation for the absence and presence of other buddhas.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 1st, 2011 at 9:47 PM
Title: Re: Other Buddhas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Namdrol,

Yes, I can agree with that. But it's still not like a living being's evolution as certain teachings can not just go extinct but resurrect too, not to mentioned cases when one teaching is integrated into another and thus lives on as part of a bigger organism from what later it can break off. So much for applying biology to Buddhism. Whether dependent origination is what to be identified as the core, well, if that equals for instance the "tolerance of no-birth", "seeing the nature" and "unity of samsara and nirvana" than sure.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 1st, 2011 at 9:06 PM
Title: Re: Other Buddhas
Content:
Astus wrote:
"I am a firm believer in evolution. I personally think that Buddhism is a religion that underwent and is undergoing significant evolution, reaching its high point in the teachings of the great perfection, and adapting itself to various cultures in an evolutionary manner according to the environment in which it found itself.

The reason Buddhism was able to undergo this evolution without it's core being destroyed, but rather revealed and expressed with greater and greater clarity as successive generations of buddhas refined its essential message, is that the essence of the dharma is dependent origination."

To add another view, it is not evolving I believe in but simply adapting (related terms nonetheless). That is, the Dharma is transmitted by those with enlightenment as this has been stated regularly from the Pali Canon on, it is just the form of the teaching that changes according to circumstances but not the meaning. This is how in Chan and generally in East Asia there is little problem in saying that the 8 teachings (classical 8 schools of Chinese Buddhism: Madhyamaka, Yogacara, Vinaya, Mantra, Tiantai, Huayan, Pure Land, Chan) are one.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 1st, 2011 at 5:21 PM
Title: Re: Other Buddhas
Content:
Astus wrote:
"With that in mind... It was my understanding that the PP sutras were rediscovered by Nagarjuna, and Maitreya's five treatises were kind of like pure vision teachings received by Asanga, etc., but are all of the Mahayana sutras said to have come to us in a similar way? Were none said to have come to us in a long lineage from the Buddha (a la kama)?"

Mahayana sutras were not preserved orally but in written form only. That is apparent from the texts themselves. If you read some suttas in the Pali Canon you recognise the large amount of repetitions and templates used in them (although in translations they're regularly left out with references and dots). That is how they were memorised. Mahayana sutras are generally longer and more complex, just look at the prajnaparamita sutras that have thousands of stanzas, and they are the earlier Mahayana texts. So from a historical perspective Mahayana sutras are definitely later works. And that lateness is in fact backed up by the surrounding stories of origin as Namdrol mentioned. If you want to look into it deeper there are books on the history and development of Buddhism.

Here are some on Indian Buddhism:

Bodhisattvas of the forest and the formation of the Mahāyāna: a study and translation of the Rāṣṭrapālaparipr̥cchā-sūtra by Daniel Boucher
A few good men: the Bodhisattva path according to the Inquiry of Ugra (Ugraparipṛcchā) : a study and translation by Jan Nattier
Nāgārjuna in context: Mahāyāna Buddhism and early Indian culture by Joseph Walser
Figments and fragments of Mahāyāna Buddhism in India: more collected papers by Gregory Schopen


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 1st, 2011 at 3:34 PM
Title: Re: Other Buddhas
Content:
Astus wrote:
"First, I'm assuming those Arhats in attendance during the Buddha's supposedly historical Mahayana teachings conceived the mind for enlightenment. Might not they have nonetheless recognized that some future beings would also have an affinity for the Bodhisattva vehicle, while others would only be attracted to the individual liberation vehicle? If that were the case, wouldn't they have been selective in who they passed either vehicle on to once they began to teach after the Buddha's death?"

You can find both ideas in Mahayana, either that the sravakas present in such sutras were bodhisattvas in disguise or that they were just sravakas and nothing more. Yes, it is recognised that there are people with different inclinations thus the three vehicles as gotra/upaya theories. Being selective about the teachings, that's an unlikely option, especially if we conceive the sravaka as a disciple who relies on the Buddha therefore whatever the Buddha teaches is important to them.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 1st, 2011 at 6:15 AM
Title: Re: What Are You Reading? What Did You Just Order to Read?
Content:


Astus wrote:
The Great Perfection by Samten Gyaltsen Karmay


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 1st, 2011 at 6:10 AM
Title: Re: Other Buddhas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Anders,

Not all teachings within Mahayana sutras are intended only for a bodhisattva audience. Sravakas are sometimes invited explicitly, not to mention when they take major parts in the stories (Ananda, Sariputra, Subhuti, etc.).

14th vow of Amitabha:

"If, when I attain buddhahood, the number of the śrāvakas in my land could be known, even if all the beings and pratyekabuddhas living in this universe of a thousand million worlds should count them during a hundred thousand kalpas, may I not attain perfect enlightenment."

Also from the Larger PL Sutra:

“The light of Amitāyus shines brilliantly, illuminating all the buddha lands of the ten directions. There is no place where it is not perceived. I am not the only one who now praises his light. All the buddhas, śrāvakas, pratyekabuddhas, and bodhisattvas praise and glorify it in the same way. If sentient beings, having heard of the majestic virtue of his light, glorify it continually, day and night, with sincerity of heart, they will be able to attain birth in his land as they wish. Then the multitudes of bodhisattvas and śrāvakas will praise their excellent virtue."

From this comes that sravakas could aspire for birth in the Pure Land and in the sutra itself the sravakas gain some attainments from hearing it and rejoice in the teaching. This happens in many other sutras where there were sravakas present. So it is not true that those teachings were meant only for bodhisattvas, while of course there are other sutras meant only for bodhisattvas of which the Avatamsaka Sutra is the most famous. Therefore knowledge about other buddhas is not a restricted doctrine, just as in the agamas buddhas of the past are indeed mentioned.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 1st, 2011 at 3:46 AM
Title: Re: Other Buddhas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Namdrol,

Sure, and that is exactly the historical point. But since, just as you said, Mahayana followers in the past (and present) think that the sutras were spoken directly by the Buddha, thus I was wondering whether there is an explanation from their side on the lack of other buddhas in the agamas. Although it is possible there isn't such an answer.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 31st, 2011 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: Other Buddhas
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Well, what sort of text critical conclusion can you draw from that, Astus?"

I'm not looking for text critical conclusions, for that there are some fine scholarly works like "The concept of the Buddha: its evolution from early Buddhism to the trikāya theory" by Guang Xing. Also it's possible to go for a conspiracy theory that the sravakas deleted all the other buddhas but that's just non-sense to me. That's why I'm looking for another perspective on this. Of course, there's always the option to say that buddhas are upaya and such, but that doesn't answer a few things.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 31st, 2011 at 10:11 PM
Title: Re: Other Buddhas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Pema Rigdzin,

What you mean is the Yogacara teaching of the five gotras, and it is not relevant to the question here.

Namdrol,

Yes, there were some Hinayana schools, the Mahasamghikas for instance, who had some concept of other buddhas. So maybe this problem never occurred in India or anywhere else. Still, in the agamas/nikayas there is no sign of other buddhas and those are the texts said to be preached for the sravakas. Consequently, since in the Mahayana sutras sravakas are also present, they should have known about other buddhas.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 31st, 2011 at 3:35 PM
Title: Other Buddhas
Content:
Astus wrote:
What is the traditional explanation for the lack of other buddhas in the agamas? It doesn't seem valid to say that teaching about other buddhas is only a bodhisattva matter since in Mahayana texts it is all fine for sravakas to learn about them and even to aspire for other buddha-realms. So why are there no other buddhas mentioned in the Hinayana teachings, only some buddhas of the past and the next future buddha? Again, it is not the modern historical explanation what I'm looking for here but the addressing of it from a traditional Mahayana perspective.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 31st, 2011 at 4:45 AM
Title: Re: What is a tantric teaching in Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Do they have the same Vajrasamadhi Sutra in Tibet as in East Asia? I mean, the one  commented by Wohyo and translated by Robert E. Buswell Jr.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 30th, 2011 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: Practice and Faith
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ven. Sheng-yen on Prayer

Sakyamuni did not teach his disciples to pray to a deity, to God, or even to the Buddha himself or another, for help or salvation. He encoraged sentient beings to help themselves as well as others. ... When people sincerely pray to deities, bodhisattvas, or even God, they will be helped or appeased. But the response to the prayers does not come from the deities, bodhisattvas or God. It comes in part from the mental power of the person seeking help, and it also comes from the collective power of all the people seeking help from a particular deity or bodhisattva. When a sufficient number of people sincerely seek help from a bodhisattva or deity, power will manifest, whether or not the bodhisattva or deity exists. It happens. People seek help, and their prayers and answered.
(Zen Wisdom: Knowing and Doing, p. 215, 217)

When someone prays, his faith engenders a mental state of supernormal, unified concentration, by which he can stimulate or arouse the compassionate vow-energy of the beings (such as Buddhas or bodhisattvas) to whom he prays, and thereby receive a response. That is, the mental energy resulting from the supplicant's concentration tallies and interacts with the energy of a Buddha's or bodhisattva's vows. This interaction, in turn, gives rise to an inconceivable, extraordinary power, which produces the special experiences and efficacious results of prayer.
(Orthodox Chinese Buddhism, p. 51)

Recitation, or prayer, is another element of the Chan practice that I teach. The power of prayer cannot be explained by psychology or science. When we pray, we generate power. In Buddhism, we say the relationship between the person who prays and the object of prayer is like the relationship between a bell and the person who rings the bell, or a mirror and the person standing in front of the mirror. Then bell won't ring without someone to ring it. The mirror does not make a reflection without someone standing in front of it. The being - the object of prayer - can only have pwer if people have faith in it. It's the same as in Christianity. You are saved only if you have faith. On this level, the faith in Buddhism is no different from that in Western religion. Faith is what gives prayer its power.
(Footprints in the Snow: The Autobiography of a Chinese Buddhist Monk, p. 182)

Ch'an practitioners do not deny the existence of bodhisattvas. They believe strongly in bodhisattvas, Buddhas, and patriarchs, but they do not pray to them as people would pray to a deity or God. They recognize that patriarchs and bodhisattvas are beings at different levels of practice. They revere bodhisattvas and seek to emulate them, but they do not typically ask for their help. In a humble, sober manner, Ch'an followers practice on their own, or under the guidance of a master.
(Dharma drum: the life and heart of Ch'an practice, p. 281)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 30th, 2011 at 3:17 AM
Title: Re: Korean Pure Land Buddhism
Content:
KwanSeum said:
What is the ' me ' you talk of?

Astus wrote:
Don't derail the discussion with questions about linguistics.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 29th, 2011 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: What is a tantric teaching in Buddhism?
Content:
Unknown said:
Vajrayāna is different than sūtra teachings because the methods of deity yoga, prāṇayāma, etc., are never taught in sūtra. No cakras, no ṇāḍīs, etc. None of that newage hippy Vajrayāna stuff is found in the sūtras, nor explained by sūtra masters -- not in India, not in China, not in Japan.

We Vajrayānists assert that all of our hippy methods, deity yoga, and so on, cause our path to be faster than the pure Mahāyāna sūtra route. These criteria did not evolve in Tibet, they evolved in India.

Astus wrote:
Now this is a clear cut explanation of the difference.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 29th, 2011 at 8:38 PM
Title: Re: What is a tantric teaching in Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

A couple of sutras that give instructions in meditation (they're translated, you can check it for yourself):

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.010.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.118.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.119.than.html
http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra13.html
http://www.fodian.net/world/0273.html
http://www.fodian.net/world/0277.html
http://www.fodian.net/world/Contemplation_Sutra.htm
http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra22.html
http://www.acmuller.net/bud-canon/sutra_of_perfect_enlightenment.html
etc. etc. etc.

Not about meditation:
http://www.fodian.net/world/0692.html
http://www.fodian.net/world/0698.html

You also shouldn't forget that meditation manuals written not by Vajrayana people (Visuddhimagga, Mohezhiguan, etc.) have nothing to do with tantra and they have been available even before the advent of tantra.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 29th, 2011 at 8:03 PM
Title: Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha
Content:
Astus wrote:
It depends on how you count. For instance, $250 is more than three times the amount of average Indian monthly income. Also, for this money, you could get about 20 normal pages translated in Hungary (for instance a contract, but it's unlikely that they could do Buddhist texts from Tibetan, or anything from Tibetan). At an http://www.clarktranslations.com/price_list.htm they do Tibetan to English for $0.22 per word, which means approximately 1136 Tibetan words for $250 (not counting other fees). But I suppose they collect money for the whole enterprise and not just getting a page translated.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 29th, 2011 at 6:12 PM
Title: Translating the Words of the Buddha
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://www.viewmagazine.org/articles/tibet/106-returning-to-the-source.html
Their website: http://84000.co/


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 29th, 2011 at 4:05 PM
Title: Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin
Content:
Astus wrote:
"he is too obscure in the West"

Haven't read much from him but from that little Nan reads quite like Hsuan Hua. Not pleasant to me.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 29th, 2011 at 3:58 PM
Title: Re: Hui-Neng Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
plwk,

How does a mummy prove it? Even if it were the actual corpse of Huineng it doesn't mean that all the legends and stories - created by later generations - are true.

"Thus the 'cast' or 'mummy' of Hui-neng may date back to T'ang times, and may just conceivably be that of the historical Hui-neng. It was seen by the monk Chien-chen circa 748 to 750, and was probably manufactured to provide a source of cohesion among the followers of Pao-lin Monastery, and to associate Hui-neng with Kuan-yin and indicate that he may even be considered a buddha. This production may have borrowed from precedents like those of Seng-Ch'ieh in the North, for his was not the first case of 'mummification' and coating with lacquer. However, it may also have been influenced by funerary practices peculiar to the locality of Shao-chou or Ling-nan. In any case, this sarira of the 'true body' was to become a most significant relic for Ch'an Buddhism and an object of widespread local veneration and supplications for this-worldly benefits. It formed the core of a cult of the relics to oppose the cult of the book and aided in the propagation of Ch'an among the common people. Whether it is real or not, what is certain is that the earliest extant record of the mummy of Hui-neng in any Ch'an source is in the Ts'ao-ch'i Ta-shih chuan, which wrote briefly of the circumstances of its production. Later Ch'an sources elaborated on this considerably, demonstrating yet again the use of invention in the hagiographical afterlife of Hui-neng."
(John J. Jørgensen: Inventing Hui-neng, the sixth Patriarch: Hagiography and biography in early Ch'an, p. 273)

Other works recommended:

online essays:
http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/HistoricalZen/PlatformSutra_Bielefeldt.htm (note it's from 1975)
http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/HistoricalZen/Legends_in_Chan.html

books:
Philip B. Yampolsky: The platform sutra of the sixth patriarch: the text of the Tun-huang manuscript with translation, introduction, and notes
John R. McRae: The Northern School and the formation of early Chʻan Buddhism
Bernard Faure: The will to orthodoxy: a critical genealogy of Northern Chan Buddhism
Wendi Leigh Adamek: The mystique of transmission: on an early Chan history and its contexts


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 28th, 2011 at 10:48 PM
Title: Re: What is a tantric teaching in Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Although in the Kumarajiva version it only says that the Buddha sat down, in Bodhiruci's translation it goes: sat peacefully in lotus-position straightening his body and posture (跏趺安坐，端身而住), or in Red Pine's translation "crossing his legs and adjusting his body". Although the Diamond Sutra is not an instruction on meditation, it does refer to proper sitting posture, and even more.

The Lankavatara Sutra 2.24, DT Suzuki translation:

"When a definite acquisition is obtained regarding the aspect of the stages [of Bodhisattvahood], the Bodhisattva will experience joy, and, gradually and successively going up the scale, will reach the ninth stage where his insight is perfected, and [finally the tenth stage known as] Great Dharmamegha. Establishing himself here, (70) he will be seated in the great jewel palace known as "Great Lotus Throne" which is in the shape of a lotus and is adorned with various sorts of jewels and pearls; he will then acquire and complete a world of Maya-nature; surrounded by Bodhisattvas of the same character and anointed like the son of the Cakravarti by the hands of the Buddhas coming from all the Buddha-lands, he will go beyond the last stage of Bodhisattvahood, attain the noble truth of self-realisation, and become a Tathagata endowed with the perfect freedom of the Dharmakaya, because of his insight into the egolessness of things."


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 28th, 2011 at 9:47 PM
Title: Re: Hui-Neng Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

Do I believe that there was a Caoxi Huineng with hundreds of disciples who attained enlightenment? No, it is very unlikely as Huineng was very much unknown for his contemporaries. It was Heze Shenhui who attributed patriarchy to Huineng after the death of Shenxiu - who was actually a famous master in his time revered by empress Wu Zetian and many others - so he could claim to be the 7th patriarch and single rightful heir. It was also Shenhui who invented the transmission of robe and bowl. As a matter of fact, Hongren had a couple of disciples who (or rather their disciples) claimed authenticity to themselves. And there were other Chan groups not directly related to Hongren. That's for the historical part. Otherwise the Platform Sutra is a fine Zen work and it's worth studying as it has been done by many others throughout the centuries.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 28th, 2011 at 3:47 PM
Title: Re: Article: Evolution doesn't bother Buddhists
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is more the usefulness in terms of education in Buddhism of the traditional view of the becoming and destruction of the worlds that should be considered when comparing it with modern views. When it's said that karma defines environment the way of acts and results is quite evident. On the other hand, if we take the evolutionary view, it teaches that there is valid basis for oppressing others and living for wealth, power and enjoyments. In that sense it's similar to the teaching of a Creator who can simply take the responsibility for everything that happens to someone and for the whole state of the world.

As for being bothered by evolution, that's another thing. It's a well known way to categorise different views into a gradual scheme. Evolution is a materialism-based concept with little or no moral value, consequently it doesn't guarantee birth into the human or heavenly realms, in fact, it's quite animal-centred. Other teachings, like Humanism, involve a moral perspective that can provide a good birth. So from a Buddhist perspective evolution is a view below what is called the path of humans and gods. Note that I'm not talking about truths but views.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 28th, 2011 at 5:47 AM
Title: Community in Western Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
This piece by James Ishmael Ford made me think:

"The thing that mostly concerned me, however, wasn’t doctrinal. The issue of whether there is rebirth or if each breath presents a new life leads to the same disciplines. The issue was that there just wasn’t much attention given to community in contemporary Western Zen. Oh, a tip of the hat here and there. But, if a Western Buddhist wanted a spiritual home for their kids, everyone I knew ended up in a UU church. If someone wanted a spiritual community as something more than a place to do the discipline, sort of like going to a spiritual gym, and then home, pretty much the only place where I could go that didn’t contradict the parts of Zen I found useful and true, turned out to be at the local UU church. Bottom line I wanted full spiritual community, and there was precious little at the local Zen center. I found it instead at the UU church. My goodness, I did. But, I also got something more. In fact much more."
https://monkeymindonline.blogspot.com/2011/03/religion-for-our-times-case-for.html

What do you think? What is your experience?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 28th, 2011 at 5:14 AM
Title: Re: Article: Evolution doesn't bother Buddhists
Content:
Astus wrote:
A good example of how when people don't know enough fill out the blank areas with their own ideas. Or it's more than just that. There is this argument, this myth, that the Buddha said nothing about "metaphysical questions" so people like to use it to adjust things to their ideas whether they believe there is a God - of whom the Buddha said nothing about according to them - or it is evolution. In fact, if we look at Buddhist cosmology we find that there humans devolved from higher, heavenly beings into their current state, and this is quite contrary to the evolutionary concept of evolving from lower beings. Even the idea of natural selection is questioned by the teaching of karma where it is not the environment forming beings but the other way around, beings creating the world. So those who take evolution as if it were in agreement with the Buddha's teachings should take an elementary course in Buddhism. Although it might happen that this part of the Dharma is missing from many teachers' curriculum.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 28th, 2011 at 5:06 AM
Title: Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thanks Longjie, very informative. I hope to see you around.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 28th, 2011 at 1:21 AM
Title: Re: Korean Pure Land Buddhism
Content:
KwanSeum said:
Are you assuming that the Pure Land is way over yonder and Amitabul is far removed from us?

Astus wrote:
Do I assume that America is on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean? Do I get there if I understand that all phenomena are only mental dharmas, or should I get a plane ticket? I can also say that Barack Obama is the true nature of my mind, however, that doesn't make me the president of the U.S. of A. Thus it is that there is not just emptiness but also causes and conditions.

"Ordinary people generally think that if the Pure Land is Mind-Only, then it does not exist. This is the understanding of demons and externalists. Such a deluded view, which appears correct but is in reality wrong, affects more than half of all people and causes practitioners to forfeit true benefits.
It is precisely because of the Self-Nature Amitabha that the practitioner must recite the name of Buddha Amitabha of the West seeking rebirth in the Pure Land – so as to achieve the Self-Nature Amitabha through gradual cultivation. If he merely grasps at the Buddha Amitabha of the West, he cannot achieve immediate escape from Birth and Death – not even if he is truly awakened, much less if (like most people who ask this question) he is pretentious and just indulges in empty talk without engaging in practice.
Thus, the answer to your question [are the Mind-Only Pure Land and the Self-Nature Amitabha the same as or different from the Western Pure Land and Amitabha in the Pure Land?] is that they are one yet two before Buddhahood is attained, two yet one after Buddhahood is attained."
(Yin Kuang: Pure-Land Zen, Zen Pure-Land, p. 57)


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, March 27th, 2011 at 10:27 PM
Title: Re: Korean Pure Land Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
What qualifies as a Pure Land path is when one's aim is to be born in the Pure Land. If one chants Namo Amita Buddha only for the sake of purifying the mind, gaining concentration and such, that is not a Pure Land method. But if one does bows and pilgrimages for attaining birth, it is a Pure Land practice then. So it is not the matter whether one uses recitation, visualisation or something else but if one has the faith and vow (to be born in the Pure Land) or not. Using the recitation of the name is just the simplest and easiest method in the Pure Land school but not the only one. Also, if one works on purifying one's mind in order to gain birth in the Pure Land, that is a valid method. Even reciting other buddhas' name can be a way to the Pure Land. Or it can be something else. It depends primarily on faith and vow. Without faith in Amita Buddha and the Pure Land it's meaningless to call it anything close to the teachings of the Pure Land school.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 25th, 2011 at 10:59 PM
Title: Re: Korean Pure Land Buddhism
Content:
KwanSeum said:
Seon is the mind of the Buddha and Kyo is the practice.

Zen and Pureland are not two but one.

Astus wrote:
Pure Land is not a Kyo/Teaching school.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 25th, 2011 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: Korean Pure Land Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Cheontae is Korean for Tiantai/Tendai (天台), and http://www.cheontae.org/. As far as I know there is no separate school for Pure Land in Korea either (just as there isn't in anywhere else except Japan), nevertheless, the practice of the yeombul (nianfo/nenbutsu) is widespread. http://www.koreanbuddhism.net/master/priest_view.asp?cat_seq=10&priest_seq=27&page=3 was a Korean monk in the 20th century who propagated yeombul practice combined with Seon. To me it seems that the mainstream view of the majority of the elite monastics and teachers is about the combined Seon and yeombul method where it is more about attaining a pure mind rather than birth in the Pure Land. This is emphasised by Hanam for instance, one of the most influential Seon monks in the 20th century, who sanctioned the abolishment of a yeombul recitation association from the Manil-hermitage in 1921 (see: Makers of Modern Korean Buddhism, p 177ff). As for other levels of Buddhism, I have no information.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 23rd, 2011 at 10:08 PM
Title: Re: What is a tantric teaching in Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

Could you brush up your sources? I mean, when you refer to a text as a source you should have access to it and be able to give an exact citation. First you say Wayman said the Avatamsaka Sutra is among the tantras, now that Conze was unaware of the large number of meditation texts. Both are unlikely statements.

"As a more or less public system of thought, the Tantra gathered momentum after 500 or 600 A.D. Its beginnings do, however, go back to the dawn of human history, when an agricultural society was pervaded by magic and witchcraft, human sacrifice and the cult of the mother goddess, fertility rites and chtonic deities. The Tantra is not really a new creation, but  the result of an absorption of primitive beliefs by the literary tradition, and their blending with Buddhist philosophy."
(Edward Conze: Buddhism - Its Essence and Development, p. 176-177)

Later he lists three practices specific to Tantra:

1. the recitation of spells
2. the performance of ritual gestures and dances
3. the identification with deities by means of a special kind of meditation


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 23rd, 2011 at 7:42 AM
Title: Re: Hui-Neng Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
四書五經 [sì shū wŭ jīng​] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Books_and_Five_Classics
十三經 [shí sān jīng] - the Thirteen Confucian Classics
易經 [yì jīng] - The Book of Changes ("I Ching")
道德經 [dào ​dé ​jīng] - Tao Te Ching
黃帝內經	[huáng ​dì ​nèi ​jīng​] - Yellow Emperor's internal canon, medical text c. 300 BC
聖經 [shèng jīng] - Holy Bible / the Confucian classics
古蘭經 [gǔ lán jīng] - Koran
摩門經 [mó mén jīng] - Book of Mormon
etc.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 23rd, 2011 at 6:26 AM
Title: Re: Hui-Neng Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
I see your point. 經, which is jing in Mandarin Chinese, carries the same meaning in Japanese (kyou), Korean (kyeng) and Vietnamese (kinh), simply because they all took writing and many other cultural things (including Buddhism) from China. The first English translation of the text made in 1930 was called Sutra of Wei Lang ( http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/clubs/buddhism/huineng/foreword.html#forword, but since even before that there were translations made from Chinese to Western languages by that time the rendering of 經 to sutra must have been the common practice. Also, 經 is the translation in Chinese for sutra, so giving it that status in the Chinese Canon was intentional long before any European knew about the text's existence.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 23rd, 2011 at 2:44 AM
Title: Re: Hui-Neng Sutra
Content:
Kare said:
Interesting. So if the Chinese called it a 'jing', who then did attach the sanskrit word 'sutra' to it? And when did that happen?

Astus wrote:
As I said, jing in Buddhist context means sutra. In English both could be scripture that some translators have used (e.g. Flower Ornament Scripture). Calling it a sutra also promotes the Zen concept that patriarchs, zen masters are equal to a buddha. But even the word sutra is said to be a mistranslation as it rather should be sukta. Nevertheless, the point of calling it a sutra is to make its content absolutely authentic and equal to the teachings of the Buddha. And indeed, that's what has happened in East-Asian Buddhism.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: What is a tantric teaching in Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"That which abides in the class of being distinguished by [1] being Mahayana and [2] having cultivation of a path according in aspect with the form body (rupakaya) of a buddha is the definition of the Vajra Vehicle. This is established by texts of Highest Mantra as well as the lower tantras."
(Jeffrey Hopkins: Tantric Techniques, p. 373)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 22nd, 2011 at 10:46 PM
Title: Re: What is a tantric teaching in Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Superior and passionate. I don't think it could help distinguishing one text/method from the other. Also, I don't see passion emphasised in EA mantrayana at all.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 22nd, 2011 at 10:38 PM
Title: Re: Meat Eating
Content:
Unknown said:
The Buddha (in the Pali Canon) never specifically stated that: if you kill then you will have this outcome, if you steal then you will have this outcome,

Astus wrote:
Actually, he did: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.135.than.html

Also, here's a great study guide on the matter of http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/kamma.html made of suttas only.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 22nd, 2011 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: What is a tantric teaching in Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
But what is the definitive attribute of tantra that makes it separate from sutra? Like, for instance, according to Kukai it is that exoteric teachings were taught by rupakaya buddha and they're all upaya, while the esoteric teachings are from the dharmakaya buddha and they convey the truth as it is. Although it's possible to argue with that but I guess that's a start.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 22nd, 2011 at 10:00 PM
Title: Re: Hui-Neng Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
It's just that "jing" (經), which generally means scripture and classic work, is the translation for sutra in Buddhist context, so the Liu zu tan jing (六祖壇經) in English becomes Sixth Patriarch's Platform Sutra. Calling it a sutra is also a sign for its great importance in East-Asian Buddhism. By the way, the text has nothing to do with the historical Huineng and the whole text is pretty much a later creation which also went through some alterations before it became what we have now.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 21st, 2011 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: The height of the Treasure tower (Lotus Sutra)
Content:
Astus wrote:
The http://www.bdkamerica.org/digital/dBET_T0262_LotusSutra_2007.pdf by Tsugunari Kubo & Akira Yuyama is another translation not mentioned.

It's not difficult to make up different interpretations of 500, especially because 5 is a popular number in Buddhism (e.g. http://viewonbuddhism.org/5_dhyani_buddhas.html ), but it isn't integral to the text itself.

Case 35 in the Blue Cliff Record is an interesting one.

Unknown said:
Manjusri asked Wuzhuo, "Where did you just come from?"
"From the south," replied Wuzhuo.
"And how does the buddhadharma fare in the south?" asked Manjusri.
Wuzhuo answered, "There are but few monks in the Final Age of the Law who maintain the precepts."
Manjusri asked, "How many monks are there?"
Wuzhuo replied, "Some are three hundred, some are five hundred."
Wuzhuo then asked Manjusri, "How does the buddhadharma fare here?"
Manjusri said, "Worldly people and sages live together; dragons and snakes intermingle."
"How many monks are there?" asked Wuzhuo.
Manjusri answered, "Front, three and three, back, three and three."


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, March 20th, 2011 at 6:05 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
I recommend discussing group karma in the topic https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1649 as it's not related to this thread.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, March 20th, 2011 at 6:03 PM
Title: Re: Hsuan Hua on the secret school and OM MANI PADME HUM
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://www.kwanumzen.org/1996/ko-bongs-try-mind/:
Only keep a try mind, only one mind: do it mind. When chanting, sitting or bowing, only do it. Practicing will not help if you are attached to your thinking, if your mind is moving. Taoist chanting, Confucian chanting, Christian chanting, Buddhist chanting: it doesn’t matter. Even chanting, “Coca Cola, Coca Cola, Coca Cola. . . ” can be just as good if you keep a clear mind. But, if you don’t keep a clear mind, even Buddha cannot help you. The most important thing is, only do it. When you only do something one hundred percent, then there is no subject, no object. There’s no inside or outside. Inside and outside are already one. That means you and the whole universe are one and never separate.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 19th, 2011 at 5:47 PM
Title: Re: Meat Eating
Content:
Astus wrote:
The Surangama Sutra, a primary Chan text, has some interesting passages. Quotes from the BTTS translation.

"A person eats a sheep. The sheep dies and becomes a person. The person dies and becomes a sheep, and it goes on that way through ten births and more. Through death after death and birth after birth, they come back to eat one another. The evil karma becomes innate and exhausts the bounds of the future. And the basis for all of this is stealing and greed."

"Bodhisattvas and bhikshus who practice purity will not even step on grass in the pathway; even less will they pull it up with their hand. How can one with great compassion pick up the flesh and blood of living beings and proceed to eat his fill? Bhikshus who do not wear silk, leather boots, furs, or down from this country or consume milk, cream, or butter can truly transcend this world. When they have paid back their past debts, they will not have to re-enter the Triple Realm. Why? It is because when one wears something taken from a living creature, one creates conditions with it, just as when people eat the hundred grains, their feet cannot leave the earth. Both physically and mentally one must avoid the bodies and the by-products of living beings, by neither wearing them nor eating them. I say that such people have true liberation. What I have said here is the Buddha’s teaching. Any explanation counter to it is the teaching of Papiyan."


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 19th, 2011 at 4:54 AM
Title: Re: Looking for Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
A recommended reading list at the http://mro.org/zmm/training/readinglist.php. That is for a modern American Zen community. If you want to study for Chinese, Korean or some other forms of Zen the list can change significantly.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 19th, 2011 at 4:43 AM
Title: Re: Finding and leaving the teacher ...
Content:
Yeshe said:
Would that be the equivalent of 'Sensei' in Japan ?

'Sensei' was translated to me as 'one who has gone before'  and is then in a position to help us.

Astus wrote:
That is a rather literal translation of 先生 (Chinese: xiansheng; Japanese: sensei) which is made up of 先 - first, former, previous and 生 - life, birth. One who is born before me is older, therefore more experienced, more knowledgeable, and of course an elder is to be respected. 法師 (Chinese: fashi; Japanese: houshi) is 法 - law (i.e. Dharma) and 師 - teacher. The difference is that in Chinese fashi is used for monks only while in Japanese sensei is used for any kind of teacher. I think the Chinese equivalent of sensei is shifu (師傅/師父) as a general form of addressing a master (of something) while in Japanese it is oshou(-sama) (和尚; Chinese: heshang) that is a respectful form of calling a monk. However, my knowledge is limited and uncertain, others may point out some errors here.

My point is that it is a limited view to think that a Buddhist teacher is an enlightened master to whom one is loyal until liberation. I'd rather say it is not much different from a school teacher, or a teacher of some sort of art. One may study the Lankavatara Sutra from one teacher and then do meditation with another. It is like a university where students learn different things from a group of teachers and then specialise in a single subject under one professor. However, it is not compulsory to specialise in one thing. A solid understanding of the basics should be perfectly enough to serve as the foundation of one's training. When reading some history of Buddhism we learn about extraordinary people who for some reason remained important for the later generations. But those are only a couple of people. And there were tens and hundreds of thousands who didn't make it to the collections of outstanding masters, which doesn't mean they were lazy good-for-nothing men (and women - who are hardly ever mentioned anyway). And besides all those monastic people there were many times more lay people, just like us on this forum, who are again non-existent in Buddhist histories except a few kings and such.

Finding a teacher, leaving a teacher, really, that sounds to me like a secondary or tertiary issue. There is this myth that teachers are magical beings bestowing blessings that make everyone enlightened, like Jesus healing the crippled. But Jesus is not coming. On the other hand, there are so many teachers doing their best to make the Dharma available to everyone who wants to learn. Teachings are given in communities, video records of the teachings are obtainable for those who couldn't be there or just want to listen to it again, there are also so many books that it's impossible to read them all. It's like in a restaurant, one only has to choose from the menu and eat. How pointless it is to complain that the chef doesn't come to your table and spoon feed you? And then this idea of finding and leaving a teacher, well, doesn't make sense to me.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 19th, 2011 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: Finding and leaving the teacher ...
Content:
Astus wrote:
Indeed, every Buddhist has a teacher in Sakyamuni himself. What is not mentioned is the category of pratyekabuddhas who attain liberation when the Dharma is not present in a world, so they aren't just without a personal teacher looking after everything they do but they don't even have any other resources available. It is also quite confusing in this discussion that a "teacher" is a quite big category. For instance, in Chinese Buddhism colloquially all monks are called Dharma-teachers (fashi).


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 18th, 2011 at 4:10 PM
Title: Re: Finding and leaving the teacher ...
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't even see how the whole teacher issue makes sense in this context. I mean, lay people are generally not bound to any teacher or community and they're free to do as they please. Of course, it is for the benefit of every lay people to listen to Dharma teachings and support the sangha. But when there is talk of a teacher in a Buddhist text - whether sutra or something else - it is primarily from the view of the monastic community where every novice is under the guidance of both a disciplinary teacher and a Dharma teacher, plus the abbot of the monastery where s/he is ordained. For at least five years a newly ordained monk can't move from the teacher s/he receives instructions from (except in special cases). After the first five years are gone a monastic may move to a different monastery if s/he wants to. However, in case of lay people these rules do not exist. So what is the whole point of finding and leaving a teacher? What teacher?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 17th, 2011 at 5:50 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
The point is that regardless of what method one uses their aim is the same in eliminating conceptual fabrications as that is the cause of ignorance. That is true for Theravada too.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 16th, 2011 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Nangwa said:
A vacuous state of mind is not Buddhahood.

Astus wrote:
"Far from a mind blank of all thoughts, the “thoughtless” mind is able to see and to know all dharmas free from attachment. It pervades everywhere, functioning freely and smoothly without any fixation, attachment or hindrance. The crucial difference between the wunien state and the ordinary person’s mind is that the thoughts in wunien no longer produce defilement nor attachment in the process of cognition. Huineng emphatically pointed out that suppressing all thoughts and refraining from thinking of anything is a misunderstanding of the dharma, and indeed one who did that was being tied up by the dharma, instead of being liberated by it."
http://www.thebuddhadharma.com/web-archive/2004/6/1/does-no-thought-mean-no-thought.html


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 16th, 2011 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
There are three views regarding the trikaya in Mahayana. 1. there is no trikaya mentioned in the early Mahayana; 2. the dharmakaya is developed by wisdom and the rupakaya is developed by merits; 3. the rupakaya is inherent in dharmakaya, i.e. the buddha-nature is both empty and non-empty. Therefore the difference between Mahayana and Theravada regarding the trikaya occurs only in case of the second view.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 16th, 2011 at 10:53 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
OK, here's another one, perhaps this will be clearer:

"In cultivating the Dharma, you may cultivate Dhyana, the teachings, the precepts, the secret school or the Pure Land, but it is all in order to bring your thoughts to a halt so that you do not produce a single thought."

( http://www.drbachinese.org/vbs/1_100/vbs70/70_4.html by Hsuan Hua)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 16th, 2011 at 5:01 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Tilopa said:
So there's no path that leads to Nirvana and no path that leads to Enlightenment?

Astus wrote:
Another way to say the same thing:

"Followers of the Way, make no mistake! All the dharmas of this world and of the worlds beyond are without self-nature. Also, they are without produced nature. They are just empty names, and these names are also empty.
All you are doing is taking these worthless names to be real. That's all wrong! Even if they do exist, they are nothing but states of dependent transformation, such as the dependent transformations of bodhi, nirvana, emancipation, the threefold body, the [objective] surroundings and the [subjective] mind, bodhisattvahood and buddhahood. What are you looking for in these lands of dependent transformations! All of these, up to and including the Three Vehicles' twelve divisions of teachings, are just so much waste paper to wipe off privy filth. The buddha is just a phantom body, the patriarchs just old monks."
(Record of Linji, 2.18, tr. by RF Sasaki, p. 221-222)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 16th, 2011 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
The article "View from the Center" starts with these two quotes:

"Don't be an arahant, don't be a bodhisattva, don't be anything at all – if you are anything at all you will suffer"
Ajahn Chah

A student of Buddhism asked, “Which do you think is the best path: that of the arahant or that of the bodhisattva?”
“That kind of question is asked by people who understand absolutely nothing about Buddhism!”
Ajahn Sumedho


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 15th, 2011 at 6:47 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Bodhicitta and the Arhat

Bodhicitta is 1. the intention to liberate all beings and attain buddhahood; 2. the true nature of mind, compassionate emptiness

"when one sees that form if Voidness, he accomplishes the great Wisdom, and he abides no more in samsara. When one sees that the Voidness is form, he attains the great compassion and will no more remain in Nirvana. Because form and Voidness, Wisdom and compassion, have all become non-differentiated, he is able to practice the non-abiding acts."
(An Excerpt from the Commentary on the Heart Sutra by Master Fa Tsang, The Buddhist Teaching of Totality: The Philosophy of Hwa Yen Buddhism by Garma C. C. Chang, p. 204.)

"There is no emptiness meditation not permeated by compassion;
For the practice of compassion is solely [the practice of] emptiness.
As for emptiness, even those seeking tranquil abiding must practice it,
For this vehicle, however, emptiness is compassion;
And the self-nature of this compassion is emptiness.
So understand that compassion is the essential nature."
(Atisa: Advice to Namdak Tsuknor, Mind Training: The Great Collection by Thupten Jinpa, p. 267.)

"The practice of "clear observation" will cure the followers of the Hinayana of the fault of having narrow and inferior minds which bring forth no great compassion, and will free ordinary men from their failure to cultivate the capacity for goodness. For these reasons, both "cessation" and "clear observation" are complementary and inseparable. If the two are not practiced together, then one cannot enter the path to enlightenment."
(The Awakening of Faith: Attributed to Asvaghosa, tr. by Y. S. Hakeda, p. 95)

The practice of "clear observation", i.e. vipasyana is described as contemplating suffering and impermanence. Indeed, the common four bodhisattva vows are very much the other side of the four noble truths. In Mahayana it is understood that emptiness and compassion go hand in hand, in fact, they're inseparably and ultimately the same. Consequently, if an arhat realises the four noble truths (of which the third is claimed to be the final meaning and equal to buddha-nature in the Srimaladevisutra) he also accomplishes great compassion, fulfilling the requirements of ultimate bodhicitta.

Something interesting to read: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/arahantsbodhisattvas.html by Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 15th, 2011 at 6:46 AM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
"The important point is not to enter cessation for the sake of living beings."

In Amaro's article there's a good point about this, "So if we’re hanging onto the Southern idea of “me going”, and “others being left behind” then that idea, by definition, is missing the mark. Similarly, if we cling to the Northern view and think, “this individual being will persist through infinite time for the sake of all beings,” that has also fallen drastically into wrong view." That is, the concept that there is a cessation is one extreme, the concept that there is remaining around is another extreme. In the Pali Canon the Buddha doesn't give a definition of what happens after parinirvana as it doesn't make sense even in this life to pinpoint someone in nirvana (as an arhat, as the Tathagata). In the Prajnaparamita texts it is emphasised again and again that a bodhisattva actually is not a bodhisattva, doesn't go anywhere, etc. Sure, there's then where the sutras got all systematised and the arhats just puff away and bodhisattvas and buddhas are eternal beings - well, this is actually how it all gets simplified and becomes easy to oppose non-existence with existence. Thus reconciling one extreme with the other is impossible, unless we point out that those extremes are wrong views.

"if you can point out to me where a Srvakayanist would develop the intention to free all living beings"

Does a bodhisattva have the concept, "I will free all living beings"? I doubt that. Does a bodhisattva actually free all living beings? Obviously not. Then what is bodhicitta and the vow?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 14th, 2011 at 10:59 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
"The two traditions define themselves in a way which necessarily excludes or marginalizes the other."

That could be said about East-Asian and Tibetan Buddhism too, or Nichiren-shu and Jodo-shu. Thing is, both Mahayana and Theravada are names for huge categories for the sake of convenience. There are Theravada people today who have little problem accepting Mahayana teachings as valid methods and consider it Buddhism just as their own tradition, which makes their view a non-exclusive one. Also, it might appear that the Theravada canon is a fixed and closed thing but in reality there are even modern texts, like those of Mahasi Sayadaw, canonised. Technically it is not an unimaginable thing to integrate both Theravada and Mahayana things, and it has happened already several times. like http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6599, or even more widespread teachings, like bhavangacitta. Perhaps sectarianism is less present in the different teachings than in the very concept that there are opposing Buddhisms.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 14th, 2011 at 9:11 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Caz,

I said, "Bodhicitta is aspiring for buddhahood and in that sravakas and bodhisattvas are different."
You said, "So it is the cultivation of Bodhichitta that is the defining point."
There's little disagreement here in defining bodhisattvas. But, to say they have a more special kindness?

"A Bodhisattva would seek out others to help them because of the intention can the same be said of a Srvakayanist ?"

Yes, the same can be said of a sravaka. Also, just a reminder, that from a Theravada POV a buddha is a "perfect arhat", thus spreading the Dharma and liberating beings are things sravakas do as well. If that were not the case the whole Theravada should have died out long ago as there was nobody who wanted to teach it.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 14th, 2011 at 8:33 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

"The Mahāyāna generally accepts the Arhat path as legitimate, but Theravāda will generally reject the Mahāyāna vision of Buddhahood."

True, it is a very apparent difference. But I also see a matching point. When it comes to identifying what a buddha is Mahayana agrees with Theravada that it is not something graspable, it is beyond identification and concepts. Thus it could be said that the "transcendental buddhas" are upaya - this view is in line with the Pratyutpannasamadhi-sutra (which is important because it is one of the main sources of meditation on Amitabha) and others.

"he difference between a Bodhisattva and Arhat is quite simple"

I said "buddhahood in this life" and not bodhisattvahood. In fact, those who teach buddhahood in this life categorise the long term bodhisattva carrier as something inferior.

"If you wish to aid in the liberation of all sentient beings, even if it means you have to take rebirth for immeasurable kalpas, you adopt the Bodhisattva path. If you want freedom from your suffering and cessation of rebirth, you take the Arhat path."

This much is taught by Theravada too, no difference on this point.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 14th, 2011 at 8:16 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
"If one isnt inspired by Bodhichitta but by a preliminary mind of love for all it doesnt have the same effect."

What distinguishes kindness on the part of a bodhisattva and a sravaka in your understanding? What makes all the bodhisattva practices special is the realisation of prajnaparamita which is the awakening to emptiness, Arya sravakas have awakened to emptiness, so they practice "unattached love" as well as the bodhisattvas. Bodhicitta is aspiring for buddhahood and in that sravakas and bodhisattvas are different.

"the avowed aspiration of the Bodhisattva is different and formalised as inherently altruistic, as opposed to Arhats who as far as I know don't formally take a vow in such a manner."

Sure, there is no such formal vow for sravakas. But such a vow doesn't create altruism neither it is a condition for it. Arhats are per definition free from all self-attachment, so I don't know how it could not be perfect altruism.

"I place sectarianism partially at the door of such teachers."

Good point. The other half are the disciples of said teachers.

"And how many have done that I can only count one and he was a Buddha as well."

The canon was set up and preserved by the disciples, also there are teachings in it from the disciples. So it was not a one man job.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 14th, 2011 at 6:50 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
"If we all need to use the ferry to reach the other side, the more people who row the better."

Two things here. There is this common Mahayana idea (misconception) that arhats are either just selfish or simply they don't care at all. This is addressed in Amaro's essay. Second, the way to liberation has to be walked alone and there's nobody who can actually make free others, so "rowing together" sounds good for community harmony but it doesn't really make sense in terms of the path to nirvana.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 14th, 2011 at 5:41 PM
Title: Re: What is precept substance?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here's a discussion partially involving the precept substance (戒體) at H-Buddhism:
http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=h-buddhism&month=0606&week=b&msg=bQcV7NhvRAe1/SPvB2oNjQ&user=&pw= and look for the same subject http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=lx&list=h-buddhism&user=&pw=&month=0606. It elucidates a few things about it for sure, including its origin and some later developments.

The very useful series http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/bdoor/archive/nutshell/teach58.htm summarises it as "those 'not-to-do' precepts". You can find a modern description in Zhenhua's https://books.google.com/books?id=NslSjSJDkV8C&pg=PA258&dq=precept+substance&hl=en&ei=b9J9TdqUNMmgtgf67KS6BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=precept%20substance&f=false.

http://www.drbachinese.org/vbs/publish/370/vbs370p029.htm the precept-substance as an actual thing, which appears to me as the common view in modern EA Buddhism:

"The Handbook of Bodhisattva Precepts for the Laity speaks of the unconditioned substance of precepts. The Dharma Master for the Bodhisattva Precepts will say: "All disciples of the Buddha, since all of you can bring forth these fourteen deep, vast vows, I now ascend the seat and bow on behalf of all of you, to respectfully invite the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of the ten directions to transmit to you the perfect substance of the precepts." That is known as the precept substance. This  is the most important time for you during the precept transmission. It's when you receive the substance of the precepts.

Everyone should read this section, so that when the time comes you can contemplate accordingly to receive this superior precept substance.

After producing faith and understanding, when we receive the precepts, we have to truly and sincerely place the six major and twenty-eight minor precepts in our minds, so that we can stop evil and avoid wrongdoing. We should put into practice the dharma of the precepts.  We should not do what we are not supposed to do. Even when we dream, we should tell ourselves that it's not permissible to do such and such a thing. That power comes from the precept substance. We have that power if we have truly received the substance of the precepts. Once we have the precept substance, we will gain a kind of strength in our body, mouth and mind. There is a change in our conduct and demeanor. Even when we are dreaming, our thoughts and our behavior are not the same as before; this is known as the precept conduct. "

http://www.drbachinese.org/online_reading/dharma_talks/5Precepts/5Precepts.b.htm,

"Lay people who like to receive precepts must request them from an ordained monk. To transmit precepts means to give the precept substance to the preceptees. The person who transmits the precept substance to you must be a Bhikshu. In the Vinaya, a Bhikshuni is not permitted to transmit precepts."


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 14th, 2011 at 4:28 PM
Title: Re: Hsuan Hua on the secret school and OM MANI PADME HUM
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think what he says about the Secret School is something opposing to the common view of Vajrayana among a large number of its followers. Would be good to see some reaction to that from mantrins.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 14th, 2011 at 4:21 PM
Title: Re: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
"There is the irreconcilable difference between Arhatship and Bodhisattvahood."

I don't think there is any problem there. Theravada accepts the bodhisattva path, even if they have a bit different set of 10 paramis. You shouldn't forget either that they were the so called Hinayana schools where the whole bodhisattva concept was developed in the first place. On the other hand, I've read somewhere the idea that in those Mahayana communities where they teach "buddhahood in this life" it is in fact reaching arhatship it's just that they had to change the terminology. Anyway, I believe this is a marginal matter compared to actually looking at the very teachings and practices different schools use. It is there to find the singular nature of the path consisting of morality (harmlessness and kindness), meditation (samatha and vipasyana) and wisdom (selflessness and dependent origination).


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 14th, 2011 at 6:20 AM
Title: Sects and Sectarianism
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is this reoccurring topic of "Theravada vs Mahayana" and it's usually the same thing repeated over and over. There's also quite strong sectarianism within Mahayana itself. However, there are a few Buddhist teachers who have more to say about this. Please add further more valuable sources on this subject, if you know. And if you're up for a debate, first look into at lease some of the teachings I list here.

http://www.abhayagiri.org/main/article/1503/ by Ajahn Amaro
https://sites.google.com/site/sectsandsectarianism/, in depth analysis by Bhikkhu Sujato
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owq_ougaikU, video Dharma speech by Ajahn Brahm

My take on the subject in brief: https://eubuddhist.blogspot.com/2010/10/single-taste.html


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, March 13th, 2011 at 9:30 AM
Title: Re: Animal products in just about everything :cry:
Content:
Astus wrote:
Where does that list come from? There are a couple of things in it I doubt has any organic component.

Plywood: besides the wood it includes glue that could be produced from animals, however, most of them are now synthetic.
Refrigerator: what part is exactly organic, besides the food content one puts into it? It's all plastic and metal as far as I can see.
Freon: it is chlorofluorocarbon containing carbon, chlorine, and fluorine produced as a volatile derivative of methane and ethane. Also, biologically synthesized organofluorines have been found in microorganisms and plants, but not animals.
Credit card: I thought it's plastic and some metallic parts. I don't know much about these things but I thought plastic is very much non-organic.
Asphalt: it is crude petroleum or crude bitumen, similar to oil. Bitumen can preserve animal fossils but that's not the same as using living beings to produce roads, besides the road workers.
Concrete: made of cement (made from limestone), fly ash (made from coal) and slag cement (a by-product of iron and steel making).
Steel: it's an alloy of different metallic elements, primarily iron and carbon, possibly also manganese, chromium, vanadium, and tungsten. No rabbits, horses or mice included.

I'm no chemist and all the data above are simply collected from Wikipedia. However, before making things sound so dire some background work and fact checking would be useful.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 12th, 2011 at 5:53 AM
Title: Re: How do you pronounce Kshitigarbha?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kṣitigarbha in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet: kʂit̪igərbʱə (based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_Sanskrit; another one at http://www.omniglot.com/writing/sanskrit.htm )


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 11th, 2011 at 7:45 PM
Title: Re: Practice and Faith
Content:
Astus wrote:
If there are no teachers of hobby Buddhism how could anyone learn about it? Or, you could simply say that it is just normal that it's hard to find a teacher with high qualities.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 11th, 2011 at 7:38 PM
Title: Re: Practice and Faith
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it is all right to have Buddhism as a hobby. Isn't that a great entertainment? I think this has been like this ever since, a number of higher class lay people (and possibly monastics too) used Buddhism simply for their intellectual and spiritual amusement without any religious fervour. We could even call this an entry stage. The question is if this hobby form is something that may lead some to get really involved and take refuge in their heart or not? I believe the answer is positive thus it is fine to spread some kind of "Zen Lite" among the masses, i.e. the path of men and gods (same as the Zen of outsiders and ordinary people).


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 11th, 2011 at 12:11 AM
Title: Re: Practice and Faith
Content:
Astus wrote:
"When I started to see how this physical world really could be all but a manifestation of mental activity, the reality of deva, deva-loka, arupa-loka and transcendental dharma guardians became apparent."

Happened in a similar way to me, it's just that I was reading "Pure Land Buddhism: Dialogs with Ancient Masters" ( http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/pureland.pdf ) when the implications of mind only and its relation to buddha-lands and such started to be clear to me, IIRC.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 10th, 2011 at 8:47 PM
Title: Re: Karma (vipaka) should be fair.
Content:
Astus wrote:
"There is the case where a trifling evil deed done by a certain individual takes him to hell. There is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by another individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.099.than.html

This concept of purifying an unknown amount of past karma resembles the story of Buddha meeting a group of ascetic Jainas working for their purification. See: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.101.than.html.

"And what is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma? Just this noble eightfold path"
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.145.than.html

On the complexity of karma: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn42/sn42.008.than.html


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 10th, 2011 at 4:16 PM
Title: Re: Do you really think existence is an illusion
Content:
Astus wrote:
The error is in the question. To as "Is this illusion?" implies there is something that is an illusion. So even if one believes it is an illusion he still maintains the view that there is something existent that has the quality of illusion. Of course, this is how language works. But the point of the metaphor of illusion and such is to make beings less attached to their experience. So this investigation of the illusory nature of things is indeed a dream in a dream. There is quite a difference between illusion and suchness, i.e. the things as they are, in terminology. But the meaning of both is simply not to get so hooked on like and dislike.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 10th, 2011 at 7:00 AM
Title: Re: dharma protectors in Zen?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The topic http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3435 was intended exactly for this aspect of Zen.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 10th, 2011 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: Vows of Manjushri
Content:
Astus wrote:
From the sutra translated by Chang from the Maharatnakuta collection, the vows of Manjusri: If all the [future] Tathagatas in countless Buddha-lands in the ten directions, whom I see with my unhindered deva-eye, are not persuaded by me to engender bodhicitta or taught by me to cultivate giving, discipline, patience, vigor, meditation, and wisdom and to attain supreme enlightenment, I shall not attain bodhi. Only after the fulfillment of this vow shall I attain supreme enlightenment.

I have vowed to combine the worlds of Buddhas as innumerable as the sands of the Ganges into a single Buddha-land and to adorn it with incalculable, intermingled, exquisite jewels. I I cannot do this, I shall never attain supreme enlightenment.

I have vowed to cause my land to have a bodhi-tree as big as ten billion-world universes; that tree will shed a light all over my Buddha-land.

I have vowed not to rise from my seat under the bodhi-tree from the time I sit down upon the seat until I attain supreme enlightenment and enter nirvana, [and during that time] to teach the Dharma by magically produced bodies to sentient beings in incalculable, numberless Buddha-lands in the ten directions.

I have vowed to cause my land to lack the name 'woman,' and to be inhabited by numerous Bodhisattvas who are free from the filth of afflictions, who cultivate pure conduct, and who are spontaneously born dressed in monastic robes and seated with crossed legs. have no Sravakas or Pratyekabuddhas, even in name, except those magically produced by the Tathagata to explain the doctrines of the three vehicles to sentient beings [of other Buddha-lands] in the ten directions.

I have vowed that, just as the inhabitants of Amitabha Buddha's land have joy in the Dharma for food, in my land the Bodhisattvas will all have in their right hands a bowl full of delicacies as soon as they think of food. After a moment, they will think, 'Under no circumstances will I eat any of this myself before I have offered it to the Buddhas in the ten directions and given it to poor, suffering sentient beings, such as hungry ghosts, until they are satiated.' After thinking this, they will obtain the five miraculous powers, enabling them to fly in space without hindrance; and then will go to offer the delicacies to the Buddhas, Tathagatas, and Sravakas in numberless Buddha-lands in the ten directions. The Bodhisattvas from my land will give the food to all the poor, distressed sentient beings in all those Buddha-lands and will explain the Dharma to them so as to free them from the thirst of desire. It will take the Bodhisattvas only an instant to accomplish all this and come back to their land.

I have vowed that when they are just born, all the Bodhisattvas in my land will obtain at will in their hands whatever kind of precious clothes they need, clean and fit for sramanas. Then they will think, 'I shall not use these myself until I have offered them to the Buddhas in the ten directions.' Thereupon, they will go to offer their precious clothes to the Buddhas of countless Buddha-lands in the ten directions and then return to their own land, all in a moment. Only after this will they enjoy the clothing themselves.

I have vowed that the Bodhisattvas in my land will offer their wealth, treasures, and necessities of life to Buddhas and Sravakas before they themselves enjoy them.

 my land will be free from the eight adversities, unwholesome dharmas, wrongdoings and prohibitions, pain, annoyance, and unhappiness.

I have vowed that my Buddha-land will be formed of incalculable amounts of wonderful jewels and adorned with innumerable, interlaced, exquisite pearls. These pearls will be exceptionally rare and difficult to find in the ten directions; their names will be so numerous that no one could finish recounting them, even in millions of years. My land will appear to be made of gold to the Bodhisattvas who wish it to be made of gold, and will appear to be made of silver to the Bodhisattvas who wish it to be made of silver, without affecting its golden appearance to those who wish it to be made of gold. According to the Bodhisattvas' wishes, it will appear to be made of crystal, lapus lazuli, agate, pearls, or any other treasure without affecting its appearance to others. It will also appear to be made of fragrant sandalwood, of fragrant aloewood, of red sandalwood, or of any other kind of wood, all according to the Bodhisattvas' wishes.

My land will not be illuminated by the brilliance of suns, moons, pearls, stars, fire, and so forth. All the Bodhisattvas there will illuminate hundreds of billions of myriads of Buddha-lands with their own lights. In my land, it will be daytime when flowers open and night when flowers close, and the seasons will change according to the Bodhisattvas' wishes. There will be no cold, heat, old age, illness, or death.

If they wihs, Bodhisattvas in my land may go to any other land to attain [supreme] enlightenment; they will ttain it after descending from the Tusita Heaven when their lives come to an end there. No one in my Buddha-land will enter nirvana.

Though they will not appear in the sky, hundreds of thousands of musical instruments will be heard; their music will not be the sounds of greedy desire, but the sounds of the paramitas, the Buddha, the Dharma, the Samgha, and the doctrines of the Bodhisattva canon. The Bodhisattvas will be able to hear the wonderful Dharma in proportion to their understanding. If they wish to see the Buddha, they will see Universal Sight Tathagata sitting under the bodhi-tree as soon as they think of seeing him, wherever they are, whether walking, sitting, or standing. Bodhisattvas who have doubts about the Dharma will break the net of their doubts and comprehend the import of the Dharma at the sight of that Buddha, without receiving any explanation.

I have vowed to fill my Buddha-land with all the merits and magnificence of the lands of the hundreds of thousands of [millions of] billions of myriads of Buddhas, World-Honored Ones, whom I have seen before. However, my land will lack the two vehicles, the five depravities, and so forth. World-Honored One, if I myself enumerate the merits and magnificence of my Buddha-land, I cannot finish doing so even in kalpas as innumerable as the sands of the Ganges. Only the Buddha knows the scope of my vow.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 10th, 2011 at 5:14 AM
Title: Re: Chinese Pure Land Death Stories
Content:
Astus wrote:
Of course it's possible to be sure. That's what is called faith, the very essence of the Pure Land path.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 9th, 2011 at 8:56 PM
Title: Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin
Content:
Astus wrote:
Looked into a couple of articles, mainly in the http://www.meditationexpert.com/zen-buddhism-tao/index.htm section, and it looked OK to me. Sure, this mixture of different teachings is unusual, but he also clarifies http://www.meditationexpert.com/zen-buddhism-tao/z_whats_so_special_about_Buddhism.html.

By this I don't mean anyone should buy things from there.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 9th, 2011 at 5:40 PM
Title: Re: Vows of Manjushri
Content:
Will said:
although my edition of Chang has the sutra on pp. 164ff.

Astus wrote:
That pp. 336-350 is in the Taisho not Chang. Starts from here: http://cbeta.org/result/normal/T11/0310_058.htm.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 9th, 2011 at 5:17 PM
Title: Re: Ask A Teacher
Content:
Astus wrote:
ZFI can have Zen teachers, Dhammawheel can have bhikkhus (or not). But who qualifies as a Mahayana teacher? Either we can set up a standard or it just doesn't work that way. The bodhisattva spirit says one learns from whomever one can and sees the buddha in all beings.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 9th, 2011 at 4:56 PM
Title: Re: Chinese Pure Land Death Stories
Content:
Unknown said:
Do you think the stories represented in Chinese Pure Land are just that...stories? I mean they're aren't really comparable stories in Japanese or even Tibetan Pure Land. Though there are stories of maha siddhas being whisked away by Vajrayogini.

Astus wrote:
Well, what we definitely have are stories. From a scholarly point of view the only possible thing to analyse is related to the story and not the truth of the content. There are of course religious themes in such stories that many accept just as they are. Personally, I can view them as expressions of something that certain people have experienced, as it so often happens in religious, magical, spiritual and other such environments (miracles are clearly not restricted to Buddhists). Such experience are real as personal, communal and traditional happenings. Same can be said about many things we take real generally in the West. And so when you ask if they're just stories the implied meaning is that it's all fiction created by writers similarly to novels and films, i.e. lies. I don't believe they're lies - although it is possible that a couple of them were just made up - but as I said, religious experience of some people. Obviously it couldn't be the dead describing what they saw. Also, such collections of stories are probably based on what the writers heard from others, including events that could have happened generations ago. But I haven't studied this area of Buddhist literature thus I can't say anything for sure about their origin and such. What is the common purpose of stories within Buddhism is to educate, and in Pure Land stories that education means generating faith in the power of the vow of Amita Buddha. A side note, explanations in forms of logical arguments also are for education and rousing faith. Not that different, but people usually prefer one over the other. Cultural conditioning is not negligible either.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 9th, 2011 at 6:05 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen teaching of Tsongkhapa
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'd say that for Dzogchen to work it should be based on non-conceptual wisdom. Mipham, Tsongkhapa, Gorampa, Nagarjuna - these great teachers gave conceptual methods, which is all right as far as they are applied.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 8th, 2011 at 7:27 PM
Title: Re: Vows of Manjushri
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is in Chang's collection.
chapter 10: The Prediction of Manjusri's Attainment of Buddhahood
Sutra 15, Taisho 310, pp. 336-350. translated into Chinese by Siksananda

The land equal to Manjusri's:
"In the east, there is a Buddha-land named Abiding in the Uncexcelled Vow, which is so far away that to get there one must pass worlds as innumerable as the sands of ten billion Ganges Rivers. There is a Buddha there named King of Universal, Eternal Light and Meritorious Ocean. The life span of that Buddha is immeasurable and infinite. He always teaches the Dharma to Bodhisattvas. Good man, the merits and magnificence of that Buddha-land are exactly like those of Universal Sight's Buddha-land."

Some words of wisdom from the text:
Bodhisattva Lion of Thundering Voice asked, "Virtuous One, do you not seek enlightenment?"
Manjusri answered, "No. Why not? Because Manjusri is no other than enlightenment and vice versa. Why? because 'Manjusri' is only an arbitrary name and so is 'supreme enlightenment.' Furthermore, the name is nonexistent and cannot act; therefore, it is empty. The nature of emptiness is no other than enlightenment."
...
Good man, the Buddha-Dharma is neither a dharma nor a nondharma. Why? Because the Buddha-Dharma arises from nowhere. If a novice Bodhisattva hears this statement and becomes frightned, he will eventually attain enlightenment. Observing this, one may think, "I must first bring forth bodhicitta and abide in [deep] realization; then I can attain Buddhahood. Otherwise, if I do not bring forth bodhicitta, I can never attain Budhahood.' [Hoever, actually one should not even] harbor this kind of discrimination, because both bodhicitta and Buddhahood are inapprehensible. If they are inapprehensible, how can they be observed? If they cannot be observed, the realization will not be possible. Why not? Because without observation, realization would have no [germinating] cause.
Good man, what do you think? Can empty space attain enlightenment?
Bodhisattva Lion of Thundering Voice answered, "No."
Manjusri asked, "Good man, has the Tathagata realized that all dharmas are the same as empty space?"
Bodhisattva Lion of Thundering Voice answered, "Yes, he has."
Manjusri said, "Good man, enlightenment is like empty space and empty space is like enlightenment. Englightenment and empty space are neither two nor different. If a Bodhisattva knows this equality, then there will be neither that which he knows [and sees] nor that which he does not know or see."
...
To achieve perfection in the Buddha-Dharmas is to achieve perfection in suchness. To achieve perfection in suchness is to achieve perfection in empty space. Thus, the Buddha-Dharmas, suchness, and empty space are [all] one and the same. Good man, you ask, 'How can one achieve perfection in all Buddha-Dharmas?' Just as a person can achieve perfection in form, felling, conception, impulse, and consciousness, so he can achieve perfection in all Buddha-Dharmas."
Bodhisattva Lion of Thundering Voice asked, "What does it mean to achieve perfection in form and other dharmas?"
Manjusri asked in turn, "Good man, what do you think? Is the form you see permanent of impermanent?"
Bodhisattva Lion of Thundering Voice said, "It is neither."
Manjusri asked, "Good man, if something is neither permanent nor impermanent, does it increase or decrease?"
Bodhisattva Lion of Thundering Voice answered, "No."
Manjusri said, "Good man, if you realize that things do not increase or decrease, you are said to achieve perfection in them. Why so? If you do not thoroughly understand things, you will make discriminations among them. If you thoroughly understand things, you will not make discriminations among them. If things are not discriminated, they do not increase or decrease. If they do not increase or decrease, they are equal. Good man, if you see equality in form, you achieve perfection in form. The same is true with feeling, conception, impulse, consciousness, and all other dharmas."
Then, Bodhisattva Lion of Thundering Voice asked Manjusri, "Virtuous One, since you achieved the Realization of the Nonarising of Dharmas, you have never harbored a notion [in your mind] of attaining supreme enlightenment. Why do you now urge others to progress toward enlightenment?"
Manjusri answered, "I really do not urge any sentient beings to progress toward enlightenment. Why? because sentient beings are nonexistent and devoid of self-entity. If sentient beings were apprehensible, I would cause them to progress toward enlightenment, but since they are inapprehensible, I do not urge them to do so. Why? Because enlightenment and sentient beings are equal and not different from each other. Equality cannot be sought by equality. In equality, nothing originates. Therefore, I often say that one should observe all phenomena as coming from nowhere and going nowhere, which is called equality, that is, emptiness. In emptiness, there is nothing to seek. Good man, you said, 'Since you achieved the Realization of the Nonarising of Dharmas, you have never harbored a notion [in your mind] of attaining supreme enlightenment.' Good man, do you see the mind? Do you rely on the mind to attain enlightenment?"
Bodhisattva Lion of Thundering Voice said, "No, Manjusri. Why not? because the mind, unlike form, is invisible, and so is enlightenment. They are arbitrary names only. The names 'mind' and 'enlightenment' do not exist."
Manjusri said, Good man, there is an esoteric implication in your statement that I have never harbored a notion [in my mind] of attaining enlightenment. Why? because the mind has never come into being, what can it apprehend or realize?"
Bodhisattva Lion of Thundering Voice asked, "What does it mean to realize equality?"
Manjusri answered, "To be detached from all dharmas is to realize equality. The so-called realization means the subtle wisdom, which neither arises nor ceases, is identical with suchness, and cannot be discriminated. If a Dharma-cultivator with right view comprehends the truth that in equality there is nothing to be attained, and does not attach himself either to multiplicity or to oneness, then he realizes equality. If a person realizes that all dharmas are signless, comprehends that signlessness is their sign, and does not cling to his body or mind, then he has perfectly realized equality."
Bodhisattva Lion of Thundering Voice asked, "What is 'attainemnt'?"
Manjusri answered, "'Attainment' is a conventional expression, In fact, what saints attain is inexpressible. Why? Because the Dharma resets upon nothing and is beyond speech. Furthermore, good man, to regard nonattainment as attainment, and as neither attainment nor nonattainment, is called [the true] attainment."


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 8th, 2011 at 5:39 PM
Title: Re: Chinese Pure Land Death Stories
Content:
Unknown said:
One day Puhua went about the streets asking people he met for a one-piece gown. They all offered him one, but Puhua declined them all.
Linji had the steward of the temple buy a coffin, and when Puhua came back the master said, "I've fixed up a one-piece gown for you."
Puhua put the coffin on his shoulders and went around the streets calling out, "Linji fixed me up a one-piece gown. I'm going to the East Gate to depart this life." All the townspeople scrambled after him to watch.
"No, not today," said Puhua, "but tomorrow I'll go to the South Gate to depart this life."
After he had done the same thing for three days no one believed him anymore.
On the fourth day not a single person followed him to watch. He went outside the town walls all by himself, got into the coffin, and asked a passerby to nail it up. The news immediately got about. The townspeople all came scrambling; upon opening the coffin, they saw he had vanished, body and all. Only the sound of his bell could be heard in the sky, receding away: tinkle... tinkle.. tinkle...

(The Record of Linji, tr. by. RF Sasaki, ch. 24, p. 41)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 8th, 2011 at 4:52 PM
Title: Re: Chinese Pure Land Death Stories
Content:
Astus wrote:
I doubt there is a clear cut system in it. Being able to foretell one's time of death may not necessarily be a sign of one's birth in the Pure Land.

Nianfo-sanmei is not a requirement to be able to foresee one's death as it can happen to very ordinary people without special abilities. I don't know how it relates to rainbow body. There are possible miraculous signs around the dead but the corpse never dissolves.

Perhaps in Pure Land schools based on Honen's ideas they don't see it important to spread around stories with miracles. Or they have not yet been translated.

The different Mahayana samadhis rarely have equivalents in the 8-level dhyana system. It also depends on what one means by nianfo-sanmei.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 4th, 2011 at 7:38 AM
Title: Re: ok i gotta ask/when did Buddha first attain enlightenment
Content:
Luke said:
But was Shakyamuni always "predestined" to be the Nirmanakaya Buddha of this kalpa, or was there some time in the past when it was uncertain whether it would be him or some other person?  I'm not sure if karma allows for things to be "predestined"...

Astus wrote:
If it is a buddha it can't be a person and karma has nothing to do with it. See, if you put things into a Mahayana context it usually means a transcendental level, a kind of abstract and spiritual perspective. Nirmanakaya than can either mean how ordinary people see a buddha (thus history has relevance) or it means an expression of the ultimate truth (generally you can put both meanings into that same word).


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 3rd, 2011 at 5:09 PM
Title: Re: ok i gotta ask/when did Buddha first attain enlightenment
Content:
Astus wrote:
Rael,

What I meant is that first you asked about the content of the Lotus Sutra and then exclaimed how the Lotus Sutra is an unreliable fabrication of later generations and thus you can't accept it. So I thought, if you don't accept the whole thing why bother about details. But I can very well be wrong.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 3rd, 2011 at 4:32 AM
Title: Re: ok i gotta ask/when did Buddha first attain enlightenment
Content:
Astus wrote:
Rael,

It is two different things to ask about the different views on the life and nature of Shakyamuni and starting to dismiss Mahayana sutras on whatever basis. It is all right if you don't accept the Lotus Sutra but it's a confusing thing to first ask a question about the content then say you don't care about the whole thing. Perhaps you should tidy things up for yourself to see what you actually want.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 2nd, 2011 at 6:40 PM
Title: Re: ok i gotta ask/when did Buddha first attain enlightenment
Content:
Astus wrote:
Anders said it well, this teaching of eternal buddhas is about affirming the presence of them within people's lives. It's also possible to see the Lotus Sutra as an apology for Sakyamuni. That's because first there was the concept that there are other buddhas still alive in other realms and they can be reached, then some thought about making Sakyamuni a central figure again, thus the idea of the act of Siddhartha. Or, another way to look at it, the story is just an expression of the teaching of buddha-nature and is not about any kind of historical issue. Indeed, the full concept of the trikaya includes all the different versions.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 1st, 2011 at 4:12 AM
Title: Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
Content:
Astus wrote:
Rael,

Merit is not transferred as money. Karma (individual causality) cannot be given or taken. Merit transference means that if you give food to a homeless and you tell me about it and I feel good about such an act agreeing with it because of my mental attitude I experience similar causes as if I gave food myself. Same happens with wrong deeds, that's how "group karma" is possible.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 28th, 2011 at 10:16 PM
Title: Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dedication of merit is the intention of giving the good results coming from a good act one has done. Transference of merit occurs if others learn about one's good deeds and rejoice over it.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 28th, 2011 at 8:50 PM
Title: Practice and Faith
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ven. Shengyan says in http://immersor.com/cmc/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/ChanPracticeandFaith.pdf:
People interested in Chan practice often find it difficult to have religious faith. As faith is intrinsically emotional, and Chan practitioners emphasize personal cultivation to gain physical and mental benefits or the experience of Chan, they find it hard to accept religious faith. This is actually a great mistake.
Many people think that Chan practice depends solely on their own efforts, requiring self-reliance, while those who practice by reciting the Buddha's name depend solely on external help. Both of these views are incorrect. In reality, Chan practice also requires external help, and the practice of reciting the Buddha's name also requires one's own effort. One can hardly become an accomplished Chan practitioner through one's own efforts. In India, China and Tibet, all meditators need the support and assistance of teachers, Dharma-protecting deities, and the Buddhas and bodhisattvas. That is why Chan monasteries in China erect and worship the statues of Dharma-protecting deities such as the eight divisions of divinities and the four deva kings.
In the past, eminent masters often encouraged Chan practitioners to "entrust their bodies to the monastery and their lives to the Dharma-protecting deities" during Chan meditation. You don't need to be concerned about your body since it will be taken care of by the masters on duty. You simply follow the monastery's routines. However, to achieve good results in your practice, you need the support of Dharma-protecting deities. Without such assistance, one may face physical and mental obstructions, which may turn into demonic hindrances. Practicing Chan depending solely on one's own efforts without believing in the power of the Buddhas, bodhisattvas, and Dharma-protecting deities cannot be considered practicing Buddhism at all.
I think I'm not far from the truth if I say that hardly any Western Zen (Chan, Seon, Thien, however you prefer) teacher talks about the presence and meaning of such religious faith in their respective communities and publications. They might have some rituals they preserved that were originally expressions of belief in different entities but those ceremonies are explained only as a nice tradition and nothing more.

Is there any change in this attitude in the West in recent years? Will it ever change? Or is it important not to mention anything resembling a religion when advertising Zen (Buddhism) to Westerners?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 28th, 2011 at 8:17 PM
Title: Re: Don't understand Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
An interesting point from http://www.ancientdragon.org/dharma/articles/zazen_as_enactment_ritual by Taigen Dan Leighton in Zen Ritual, p. 168.

Unknown said:
Zazen as Tantra

Before focusing on teachings by Dogen, we may briefly note that such enactment practice is usually associated with the Vajrayana branch of Buddhism, in which practitioners are initiated into ritual practices of identification with specific buddha or bodhisattva figures. Although Vajrayana is often considered
the province of Tibetan Buddhism, increasing attention is being given to the crucial role of the Japanese forms of Vajrayana (J. mikkyo). In the Heian period, this mikkyo, also known as ‘‘esoteric’’ or tantric practice, was prevalent not only in Shingon (True Word), the main Japanese Vajrayana school, but also in the comprehensive Tendai school in which were first trained not only Japanese Zen founders like Dogen and Eisai (1141–1215) but also Pure Land founders Honen (1133–1212) and Shinran (1173–1262), as well as Nichiren (1222–1282). Thanks to this mikkyo heritage that permeated all of medieval Japanese Buddhism, in many inexplicit ways mikkyo or tantric practice can be seen as underlying all subsequent forms of Japanese Buddhism. Further studies exploring the direct and indirect influences of mikkyo on Japanese Zen promise to be especially instructive.
For Dogen and others, Zen shares with the Vajrayana tradition the heart of spiritual activity and praxis as the enactment of buddha awareness and physical presence, rather than aiming at developing a perfected, formulated understanding. In the context of Tibetan Buddhism, Robert Thurman speaks of the main thrust of Vajrayana practice as physical rather than solely mental. ‘‘When we think of the goal of Buddhism as enlightenment, we think of it mainly as an attainment of some kind of higher understanding. But Buddhahood is a physical transformation as much as a mental transcendence.’’
The Japanese Vajrayana teacher Kukai (774–835), the founder of Shingon, emphasized the effects of teachings over their literal meaning. As explicated by Thomas Kasulis, ‘‘Kukai was more interested in the teachings’ aims than in their content, or perhaps better stated, he saw the aims as inseparable from their content. He saw no sharp distinction between theory and practice.’’ The understanding of a teaching was not privileged independently from its practical effects. ‘‘The truth of a statement depends not on the status of its referent, but on how it affects us.’’ For Kukai, physical postures, utterances, and mental imagery are expressions of ultimate reality, and by intentionally engaging in them, practitioners are led to realization of that reality. The performance of the ritual practice helps effect an expressive realization deeper than mere cognition.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 28th, 2011 at 4:12 AM
Title: Re: What was the last film you watched?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Star Trek - Generations


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, February 27th, 2011 at 9:21 PM
Title: Re: Use inner stillness as meditation object & Patriarchal Chan?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Patriarch Chan and Tathagata Chan are two different terms and they're not used as equals. In the Platform Sutra there's only talk of Tathagata Chan and no mention of Patriarch Chan (first mentioned in a story involving Yangshan Huiji and Xiangyan Zhixian - according to Jiang Wu). As for their meaning, it depends on where you look, so let's just put that aside.

If you want to focus on an inner stillness to attain stillness, well, it is a bit confusing. If there is stillness you don't have to achieve it. If there is no stillness you can't focus on it. Being free from attachments is the goal of the path which can be practised very well by cultivating samadhi and prajna. As for how, I assume that's what you're asking about. If it is Chan you want to do you should learn the huatou method so then you can carry around your question as a point of focus. What seems closer to your intentions is the mozhao (silent illumination) of which you can read http://www.westernchanfellowship.org/silent-illumination-may2005-day1.html a bit.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 26th, 2011 at 9:24 PM
Title: Re: Poverty in the UK
Content:
Astus wrote:
Maybe poverty is not about salary and work, just as the article says. I mean, there are thousands and thousands going to the UK to do some work for a couple of years and bring it home eventually (this is from poorer EU countries, mainly Poland). And most of them do simple jobs like on construction sites.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 26th, 2011 at 9:07 PM
Title: Re: Meditation/Contemplation/Visualisation Sutra practice
Content:
Astus wrote:
No disagreement here.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 26th, 2011 at 9:05 PM
Title: Re: Don't understand Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
As for the view of buddha-nature and interdependence, here are some thoughts (mine, not an official point of any organisation).

Dogen emphasises interdependence a lot which is also apparent in his use of terms including his repeated statements on the enlightenment of insentient beings. Also, in his writing on http://hcbss.stanford.edu/research/projects/sztp/translations/shobogenzo/translations/bussho/title.html he criticises those who take it as a self (atman) or as a perceiver and knower. He also puts the view of buddha-nature as a seed to the level of ordinary beings (prthagjana).

Korean Zen can be traced back to the works of Yongming and Dahui where buddha-nature is knowing (teaching originally from Heze Shenhui and Guifeng Zongmi). This is quite a different approach compared to Dogen's. To use a common tool here, Dogen is more on the side of emptiness teachings while Jinul on the side of existence. So Dogen disintegrates views to show emptiness (although this is a simplification) while Jinul points to the mind being without views.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 26th, 2011 at 8:26 PM
Title: Re: Meditation/Contemplation/Visualisation Sutra practice
Content:
Astus wrote:
Recitation of the name is easier than visualisation and other such methods and this is a common understanding in Chinese PL too. That doesn't mean one shouldn't do them it's just one has to be clear about one's situation and willingness. Honen puts recitation to the front so that people can grow strong in faith after which it's fine to get busy with so call auxiliary practices.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 26th, 2011 at 5:14 AM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,
So it is. But that connection is a lot more complex than a single line of male monks.

tomamundsen said:
Right. Which is exactly how it is presented with each and every teacher that has received shiho. There is a long list of names with a line going through each one, starting from the Buddha (not sure if it goes six buddhas before Shakyamuni or not) all the way down to the teacher himself. I've seen a few of these (Kechimyaku, I believe is the term), and every teacher that had one definitely believed it to be true.

Astus wrote:
I think you mean this:



It is exactly a single line of male monks.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 26th, 2011 at 12:28 AM
Title: Re: Don't understand Zen
Content:
KwanSeum said:
But again that is Seon and not Zen which I asked about.

Astus wrote:
If you cared to look it up you'd find that it discusses Soto, Rinzai and Jogye Seon. Seung Sahn spent some time in Japan.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 25th, 2011 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

So it is. But that connection is a lot more complex than a single line of male monks.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 25th, 2011 at 11:19 PM
Title: Re: Don't understand Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
It was simply my explanation using a fusion of terminology. The teaching of don't know mind (不知心) is very much Seung Sahn's way of teaching and the expression itself is not a traditional one. Nevertheless, the meaning is the same (going beyond/before thinking). You can read that in The Compass of Zen on Methods of Meditation.

Also here's a quote from a http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/augusto/GoingBeyondBuddha.htm where he uses the term "don't know" (from the story of Bodhidharma meeting the emperor):

So practice is the path itself, rather than the attainment of a so-called goal. There we meet Shitou's mind: not to attain, not to know; returning once again to the “don't know” mind, in which every single koan is understood, seen and presented with the eyes and dance of primal innocence. So here the path is the Tao, is what moment by moment inspires our lives, rather than the goal itself. The path, the koan, shikantaza is not ahead, there; but right here, right now, breathing through our very body. You see, if not like this, if not now, then when and where,?

Thus in the Buddha Tao, in the Buddha way, there is no goal at all; just that dropping off of body and mind. And this happens when the 10,000 dharmas advance to the very bottom of oneself, to the very bottom of the universe. And then that self, (if you wish to call it that), that innermost part of the universe and ourself, comes forward and saves the many beings.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 25th, 2011 at 8:26 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Images in the Workplace
Content:
Astus wrote:
I put calligraphy on my cubicle's walls. It doesn't necessarily appear as Buddhist unless one reads Chinese. I usually use some Buddhist image as my background picture, although even I don't see it often because of the different windows open.

Baizhang's saying is very good for workplaces:

(one day without work, one day without eating).


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 25th, 2011 at 5:41 PM
Title: Re: Don't understand Zen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Don't know mind is buddha-mind, keeping a don't know mind in zazen is seeing buddha, seeing buddha is enlightenment.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 24th, 2011 at 7:44 PM
Title: Re: Pop Heart Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatsune_Miku is a so called vocaloid, i.e. a computer program anyone can use to create music and song with it.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 24th, 2011 at 6:03 PM
Title: Re: Help with chinese characters
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://cojak.org/ " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has that feature, although not for every character.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 24th, 2011 at 7:16 AM
Title: Re: The Problem of Modern Buddhism
Content:
Yeshe said:
It also requires acceptance that returning to 'original Buddhism'  means that of Shakyamuni.  Therefore this negates any previous Buddhas.  I would assert, somewhat tenuously, that this may encourage a belief that Dharma also only began with Shakyamuni, which would be a conclusion some may draw, as if Shakyamuni somehow invented a new truth rather than revealed a path.

Astus wrote:
I don't think there is disagreement on Shakyamuni being the buddha of this age and that before him any previous buddha's teaching was gone. Consequently whatever Buddhism one may talk about today started with Siddhartha Gautama and nobody else, a reason why he is called the original teacher (benshi 本師). It doesn't negate previous buddhas at all, also because Shakyamuni was the first who talked about those before him. Again, it was Siddhartha who said that he did not invent anything but rediscovered it. This makes Shakyamuni the primary common factor among all the different Buddhist traditions. As for the historical validity of any teaching, that's another matter. But again, even if we look at the different Mahayana schools what they definitely agree on as the fundamental teachings are generally what we find in the nikayas and agamas upon which all the other doctrines are built upon. So if we want to find the very basics of Buddhism, the root, the origin, we arrive at such essential tenets like the four noble truths, the noble eightfold path and dependent origination. And that is irrelevant of our view on academical research.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 24th, 2011 at 4:58 AM
Title: Re: The Problem of Modern Buddhism
Content:
Unknown said:
Theravada practitioners may scorn the Mahayana scrioptures as not being the Buddha's teachings.
Mayayana and Vajrayana may scorn the Theravada as 'Hinayana' and merely a brief prelude to the superior Mahayana.
It's time both accepted that there is no monopoly.
The problem of modern Buddhism, IMHO, is that there is too much analysis of the scriptures and too little practice.

Astus wrote:
There is no monopoly, i.e. everyone goes on their own way and leave each other alone. That is easy to say but I don't think it's fitting the situation. It is avoiding the problem, giving up. Same with emphasising practice over discussion, it is just saying to shut up and mind your own business. Sure, there won't be a universal solution, but there are different ways of dealing with it, one of them being what you suggest. But there are people who feel the need for thinking things over, getting involved in not so mundane issues. Of course there are only a few who care about philosophy and it's normal to go along with an already existing tradition. But since the problem has been raised it might be worth the try to actually discuss it rather than to kill it with a slogan. Sure, it may involve stepping on traditional toes but there's nothing new in that.

By the way, the concept of "returning to original Buddhism" is not restricted to Theravada. Yinshun, famous Buddhist thinker of the 20th century, did just the same but based on the Chinese agamas and prajnaparamita texts. Ven. Huifeng could tell a lot about him.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 24th, 2011 at 3:46 AM
Title: Re: The Problem of Modern Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
What Bhante Punnaji presents is modern Buddhism itself, in a sense. It is the concept of returning to the original teachings by putting aside the layers of interpretations created by different traditions. This is not at all defending Theravada against Mahayana, that is clear from what he says, but trying to establish what the Buddha really taught and putting aside the myriad views about the Dharma as they're not the Dharma itself. It is also noteworthy when he defines the Buddha's teaching as a problem and a solution to that problem, and whatever solves the problem is the Buddha's teaching. That is hardly sectarianism but rather pragmatism. Identifying the original teachings with the sutras preserved in the Theravada tradition is not his idea but rather a conclusion of many scholars comparing the different texts we have. Of course, one could as well add here that the agamas found in other languages are representatives of the same original teaching, however, none of them as complete as it is in the Pali language.

Whether diversity in Buddhism is a problem or not is a good question indeed. When those unfamiliar with Buddhism ask "What is Buddhism?" it is not easy to answer unless one wants to present only a single tradition. And every tradition is an attempt to unify the different teachings, especially in case of Mahayana schools. Then we can see how there are many takes on a teaching that is said to be taught by a single person. And as it has happened in different Asian cultures there are ought to be new forms of unifications of the diverse teachings of which one example is the Triratna Buddhist Community (formerly FWBO), another one is Joseph Goldstein's book "One Dharma".


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 23rd, 2011 at 4:40 PM
Title: Re: Laughter and the Buddha
Content:
TMingyur said:
This is not comprehensible for me and it appears as if an inherent contradiction.
Why is there this "burst out laughing"? Who is it who laughs? And about what is this laughter?

If there is no "I" who appropriates a discrepancy between illusion and non-illusion then why is there laughter?
But if there is an "I" who  appropriates this discrepancy then this laughter is a manifestation of delusion.
Who could there be to compare illusion and non-illusion and burst out laughing about that?

Isn't this actually differentiating "good" and "bad" and "acceptance" and "rejection" in that it discerns that which is laughable?

Astus wrote:
With this concept you could argue that a buddha can't talk and eat either for then there should be an "I" to conceive an other and make distinction between food and non-food (not to mention acceptable and unacceptable food). It is a buddha who can't even breathe.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, February 22nd, 2011 at 9:35 PM
Title: Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna
Content:
Inge said:
Yes, so does this mean that the vows presented in the links given by you and Will is from the tradition of Asanga?

I have tried searching for an english translation of the Siksasamuccaya but have not found one yet. Do you know if such translation is available?

Astus wrote:
Yes, the 18+46 is the Asanga version. There is an old translation, also available somewhere online (don't have the link now, was in a thread a while ago).


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, February 22nd, 2011 at 8:15 PM
Title: Re: Laughter and the Buddha
Content:
Astus wrote:
One of the rootless functional consciousnesses (ahetukakiriya-cittani) in Abhidhamma is the smile-producing consciousness (hasituppadacitta) that exists only for arahants (incl. buddhas and paccekabuddhas). Its function is to cause arahants to smile about sense-sphere phenomena. (A comprehensive manual of Abhidhamma, p. 45)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, February 22nd, 2011 at 6:14 PM
Title: Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna
Content:
Astus wrote:
The book itself explains what it means (on p. 64):
Gambhiradarsanaparampara (Tradition of the Profound View), compliled by Manjusri, elaborated by Nagarjuna et al., propagated by Santideva
Udaracaryaparampara (Tradition of Extremely Vast Conduct) compiled by Maitreya, elaborated by Asanga and his brother, propagated by Atisa
tradition of Padmasambhava follows that of Nagarjuna

Later it says that the 80 auxiliary vows are in the Siksasamuccaya (Compendium of Precepts), which is by Santideva thus the "tradition of Nagarjuna". The mentioned 18+46 set is in the "tradition of Asanga".

The text itself is a Nyingmapa Dzogchen work that was commented upon by Dudjom Rinpoche.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, February 22nd, 2011 at 5:24 PM
Title: Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna
Content:
Astus wrote:
Madhyamaka is not an order but a method. Methods don't have precepts as far as I know. What the "tradition of Nagarjuna" is is a question to me but I doubt he could have heard about the above mentioned sets of precepts.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, February 22nd, 2011 at 4:39 PM
Title: Re: Bodhisattva precepts in the tradition of Nagarjuna
Content:
Astus wrote:
The 10+48 is from the http://www.ymba.org/bns/bnsframe.htm used in East Asia. The http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/practice_material/vows/bodhisattva/root_bodhisattva_pledges.html+http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/practice_material/vows/bodhisattva/secondary_bodhisattva_pledges.html version is used in Tibet. The http://www.mro.org/zmm/training/jukai.php version is used in modern Soto Zen but it's just a derivation from the Tendai presentation of the Brahma Net Sutra's precepts.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, February 22nd, 2011 at 4:22 PM
Title: Re: Buddhism isn't whatever you want it to be!
Content:
Astus wrote:
I see no problem telling people if they misunderstood something about Buddhism, especially on a forum like this or at a friendly conversation. Another beneficial thing is to point people to the proper sources of information. It is obviously not easy to tell the difference between correct and incorrect websites/books/teachings.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 21st, 2011 at 8:45 PM
Title: Re: Lineage Delusions: Eido Shimano Roshi, Dharma Transmission..
Content:
kirtu said:
Well in the Buddhist Channel article the author says that deconstruction of lineage is a solution to the problem.  However that is guaranteed to destroy Buddhism.  We cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Astus wrote:
Such an importance of Dharma transmission in Zen is a Western idea. I can't speak for Vietnam as I have little information on that area but in China, Korea and Japan the monastic ("church" in Japan's case) order has always come first and the possession of a paper of transmission is mostly irrelevant to one's position and reputation, partially because of its availability and partially because its importance has been downplayed a few times in history. Also, giving such a transmission to a lay person is not a normal thing at all.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 21st, 2011 at 7:32 PM
Title: Re: Completion of the path of Tögal
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't see how it is related to Togal (circles - beads? maybe). Visions are not restricted even to Buddhism, and this Earth-loving attitude is a bit strange too. There are not enough info on the page either.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 21st, 2011 at 6:55 AM
Title: Re: Dennis Genpo Merzel disrobes as a Zen priest
Content:
Unknown said:
Morality does need to be enforced among priests.

Astus wrote:
Well, it is possible when there are monks living in a community and any immoral act has consequences there. But when priests live on their own and are financially independent such forcing is not possible except by the law of the state. Also, there's hardly any special moral code upheld by such priesthood generally. No community, no leadership, no control. Monastic communities are quite different from that, especially when they're dependent on lay support so a good reputation is crucial.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 18th, 2011 at 4:16 PM
Title: Re: Dennis Genpo Merzel disrobes as a Zen priest
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is another point that should be considered. That is when the teaching is more important than the teacher. Sheng-yen says in "Zen Wisdom":

"The most important thing in recognizing masters is to be able to judge whether they have a correct view of Buddhadharma. If their views of the Dharma are correct, then even if their behavior reveals some weaknesses, they should not be considered false masters. On the other hand, if teachers do not have a correct view of the Dharma, they cannot be considered authentic or virtuous masters. ... These, then, are the marks of virtuous masters: they have a correct view of the Dharma, their actions reveal no attachment and they have a clear sense of responsibility."
"It's not serious if masters sometimes demonstrate some bad habits, as long as they are aware of their actions. After all, they are still ordinary sentient beings. But if a master were to say, "This is the way of a Ch'an master," or, "I'm a bodhisattva, so I can act this way in order to help others, but you as ordinary people should not imitate me," then that's a different story. That's a sign of a bad master."

And that's where Brad Warner - who obviously doesn't agree with "Big Mind" at all - was pointing to in this case.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 18th, 2011 at 6:07 AM
Title: Re: Dennis Genpo Merzel disrobes as a Zen priest
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think that as Genpo roshi is supposed to be a long term practitioner who is proficient in Zen (at least on some levels) he should be able to use Buddhism in correcting whatever unwholesome habits he may have. I don't doubt the usefulness of therapy, it's just that I believe Buddhism has the proper methods for building up beneficial mental habits and fighting the harmful ones. In fact, that's what correct effort (samyag-vyāyāma) is about.

We should also remember that Genpo's primary teacher, Maezumi roshi, was an alcoholic and also had sexual affairs of his own. So, is it possible to separate personal from professional life in case of Buddhism? Unlikely.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 17th, 2011 at 11:39 PM
Title: Re: Dennis Genpo Merzel disrobes as a Zen priest
Content:
Astus wrote:
Fascinating. So many Zen teachers who believe that it is therapy to solve the problems and not Zen. Then what is Zen good for, really?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 17th, 2011 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Dennis Genpo Merzel disrobes as a Zen priest
Content:
Astus wrote:
https://hardcorezen.blogspot.com/2011/02/disrobing-genpo_11.html


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 17th, 2011 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
mr. gordo said:
I don't have this particular book:

https://www.amazon.com/Living-Yogacara-Introduction-Consciousness-Only-Buddhism/dp/0861715896/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297800142&sr=8-1

Is it worth picking up?

Astus wrote:
Certainly it is. Very good intro.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 17th, 2011 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
"You won't find the sentence 'Amida Buddha is a metaphor and the story of the Pure Land is a myth' in any of Shinrans writings. It wasn't part of Shinrans 'language' so to say."

Symbolical interpretation of Pure Land has been long before known in EA Buddhism and Shinran was quite an educated monk. Also, those who teach mind-only pure land refer to the Vimalakirt Sutra's "when the mind is pure the land is pure", consequently advocate a clearly self-power approach very much in contradiction with total reliance on other-power.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 16th, 2011 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: Dennis Genpo Merzel disrobes as a Zen priest
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think he gives a different example when a wrongdoing has been displayed in public compared to the other recent case of Eido Shimano. It looks positive to me.

The other issue that should be considered is the Buddhist rhetoric compared to reality. One's wisdom is supposed to reflect in one's deeds. Being ethical is theoretically a prerequisite to higher achievements, that's one of the reasons why monastics are the bearers of the tradition and not laymen. Zen is said to be the direct path to perfect enlightenment. It's just that it doesn't exactly show in its living form. What can we make of that?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 16th, 2011 at 9:09 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is no record of an Indian lineage, there are records from China showing the development of both the concept and the actual descriptions of the lineages. The book "Seeing through Zen: encounter, transformation, and genealogy in Chinese Chan Buddhism" gives you a short introduction to the historical study of it. You may also find a couple of relevant essays on http://thezensite.com/MainPages/historical_zen.html.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, February 8th, 2011 at 12:35 AM
Title: Re: Why use mantras?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"but as a request to Avalokiteshvara rather than an expression of my own magical power."

Magical use of mantras is quite apparent in Buddhism just as well as throughout India. And using an external being to affect things is still within the realm of magic, although it can be very well within the boundaries of religion (in many cases it's hard to make a distiction).


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 7th, 2011 at 6:52 PM
Title: Re: Why use mantras?
Content:
Astus wrote:
As little I know, mantras have two uses: as mnemonic devices and as magical words. But the Heart Sutra itself is a short reminder of the prajnaparamita teachings. Thus the dharanis and mantras in a sutra are said to be equivalent of reciting the whole text, just like in the Nichiren school they say that Namu Myoho Renge Kyo is same as reciting the complete Lotus Sutra.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, February 7th, 2011 at 6:23 PM
Title: Re: not a thing, but there is.
Content:
Astus wrote:
From the Perfect Enlightenment Sutra (two different translations):

“Virtuous man, one who practices Complete Enlightenment of the causal ground of the Tathagata realizes that [birth and extinction] are like an illusory flower in the sky. Thus there is no continuance of birth and death and no body or mind that is subject to birth and death. This nonexistence of [birth and death and body and mind] is so not as a consequence of contrived effort. It is so by its intrinsic nature. The awareness [of their nonexistence] is like empty space. That which is aware of the empty space is like the appearance of the illusory flower. However, one cannot say that the nature of this awareness is nonexistent. Eliminating both existence and nonexistence is in accordance with pure enlightenment."

"Good sons, in the practice of Perfect Enlightenment of the causal stage of the Tathāgata one understands these 'sky-flowers,' thus there is no transmigration, nor body/mind to undergo life-and-death. But they are not caused to be non-existent. It is because they lack original nature. Now, this [prior] awareness is in itself void, like empty space. Yet since this awareness that perceives it to be like empty space is none other than the appearance of sky-flowers, you also cannot say that there is no nature of awareness. Existence and non- existence both being dispelled is called 'according with pure enlightenment.'"

It is also like what Huairang said to the sixth patriarch: "To say that it is like a thing is to miss the point." - which applies to believing that there is something (or there isn't).


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, February 6th, 2011 at 11:16 PM
Title: Re: Favorite Sutra?
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://www.acmuller.net/bud-canon/sutra_of_perfect_enlightenment.html, http://www.fodian.net/world/0842/0842.htm, i.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutra_of_Perfect_Enlightenment.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 5th, 2011 at 7:33 AM
Title: Re: The Law of NonContradiction and the BuddhaDharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is no contradiction in the tetralemma as it is used to negate extreme concepts. Nagarjuna explains in the following stanzas the reason for the teaching of emptiness, how buddhas have used different teachings, why language has to be transcended, that there are conventional and ultimate truths, how dependent origination is emptiness and that it is the essential teaching of the buddhas.

Through the elimination of karma and affliction there is nirvana.
Karma and affliction come from conceptual thought.
These come from mental fabrication.
Fabrication ceases through emptiness.

The Buddhas have designated a self;
And have taught that there is no self;
And also have taught that
There is neither self nor selflessness.

What language expresses is repudiated because
The domain of thought is repudiated.
Unarisen and unceased:
Reality is just like nirvana.

Everything is real; and is not real;
Both real and unreal;
Neither unreal nor real.
This is the Lord Buddha’s teaching.

Not dependent on another, peaceful and
Not fabricated by fabrications,
Not conceptualized, without distinctions:
That is the characteristic of things as they really are.

Whatever comes into being dependent on another
Is neither identical to that thing
Nor different from it.
Therefore it is neither annihilated nor permanent.

This is nectar—the doctrine of
The Buddhas, patrons of the world.
Without identity, without distinction,
Not annihilated, not permanent.

(MMK 18.5-11, tr. from Ocean of Reasoning)

We find the following story in the Gateless Gate collection ( http://www.mro.org/zmm/teachings/daido/teisho38.php ),

Master Yangshan had a dream: He went to Maitreya’s place and was given the third seat. A venerable monastic there struck the table with a gavel and announced, “Today, the talk will be given by the monastic of the third seat.” Yangshan struck the table with the gavel and said, “The Dharma of Mahayana goes beyond the Four Propositions and transcends the One Hundred Negations. Listen carefully!”

The four propositions (四句) are the tetralemma (being, non-being, being and non-being, nor being neither non-being) and the hundred negations (百非) are either an expression for the complete refutation of all statements or a way of multiplying the tetralemma (the four propositions applied to each proposition (16), multiplied by the three times of past, present and future (48) and also by the two possible states of arisen and not yet arisen (96) to which we add the original four propositions (100) - from the short summary by Zixuan [T44n1848, p318b08-12]). But the real teaching is not even this four propositions and hundred negations but beyond it, that is, non-conceptual which is neither conceptual (grasping concepts) nor not conceptual (refusing concepts) thus realising that all appearances are empty, only ideas, thoughts, names.

Wansong's commentary to case six of the Book of Serenity says,

"The Mahayanasamgraha says, "'Existence' is slander by exaggeration, 'nonexistence' is slander by underestimation; 'both existence and nonexistence' is slander by contradiction, and 'nether existence nor nonexistence' is slander by intellectual fabrication." If you abandon these four propositions, the hundred negations are spontaneously wiped out. Huangbo said, "If you want to understand directly and immediately, everything is not it." I say, "If you understand clearly and thoroughly, nothing is not it.""

The point is that while the laws of logic one may describe certain conventional truths and there is no denial of that. This is where one can say that something is, or something isn't, or something sometimes is and sometimes isn't, or that something is never is or isn't. But from the ultimate point all views of existence and non-existence are extremes and illusions leading only to suffering when clung to.

The law of identity is another fundamental concept. But if we take it from the Buddhist perspective it is impossible to find and identity in anything and this identitilessness is also known as selflessness and emptiness. From this comes that further statements about any "being" is senseless as well since there is no such "being" in the first place. So comes the first part of the tetralemma that one can't say there is a being. Also, it isn't true either to say that there is nothing at all, since there is a "being" on a conventional, conceptual level. Concluding that there is and there isn't a "being" is wrong again, for it is a mental fabrication produced only to maintain one's grasping of something being both like this and that. However, even saying that then it is neither is nor isn't is incorrect as well for similar reasons as before. This is an example of the use of the tretralemma which is a method to eliminate false ideas.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 4th, 2011 at 10:31 PM
Title: Re: Paradox of Buddhahood in Mahayana (newbie's questions)
Content:
Sāvaka said:
After reading further I've come across a wiki quote that there is a Zen perspective takes the trikāya non-literally, if true that adds an alternative look.

Astus wrote:
The only difference there is is that in Zen buddha-mind contains all three bodies thus realising the buddha-mind one is a buddha - this is the concept behind sudden enlightenment. Although there are other interpretations too but not as popular as this one.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, February 4th, 2011 at 6:23 PM
Title: Re: State of Japanese Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
In the Myoshin-ji school of Rinzai Zen to be a head of the meditation hall (i.e. an actual Zen teacher who trains others) one is required to be unmarried and live pretty much like a monk in other countries. Just another example.

"The shike (師家) is  the teacher (師) in the monastic household (家). He is the "true" shukke who has - ideally, but not necessarily - gone through all the koan of the particular monastic koan-system, and who stays permanently in monastic life leading the monastery and guiding the monks, thus also referred to as the "elder teacher in the monk's hall" (sōdō rōshi). He has received the certificate of enlightenment (inka shōmei) just as he himself can transmit this to his successor. Unless returning to lay life, or taking up a position as priest in a temple, a shike within the Myoushinji sect is not allowed to marry but must keep the strict rules of renouncement. As such he has the prestige and generally owns the respect of being a true Zen master, a living symbol of the Zen monastic tradition, the quintessence of zen virtues ideally incarnating wisdom, spirituality, strict discipline, individuality, and yet gentle social personality. He is, in a certain sense, the religious main figure."
(Jørn Borup: Japanese Rinzai Zen Buddhism: Myōshinji, a Living Religion, p. 60)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 2nd, 2011 at 10:03 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana) : Will it stick ?
Content:
mr. gordo said:
I know it seems like a shallow statement, but it seems dead on.  Tibetan Buddhism is alien enough to tap the interest of those brought up in a Judeo-Christian background to the ardent atheist.  Also the Dalai Lama embraces the use of technology like Social Media to provide Buddhist teachings, and it seems like this could be further implemented by the Karmapa.

Astus wrote:
Being alien is not enough and can be even counter-productive. It should not be forgot that Tibet has been a part of Western esotericism since the 19th century or even before as a mystical land. There is also the recent history of Tibet that a large number of the population fled from the country and now they are oppressed by the Communists - this whole brings up Western concepts of freedom and the evil enemy of that. There's also the image of Tibetans being a spiritual, peaceful people living close to nature which again resonates with old Western ideas. It's just another thing how neo-pagan movements are growing in numbers and that goes quite well with the magical features of Vajrayana. Thus it is an already existing mythology that Tibetan Buddhism can build on. How Tibetan Studies is a common part of oriental curricula in universities is another positive factor.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 2nd, 2011 at 6:52 PM
Title: Re: State of Japanese Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't know exactly when Rinzai Zen left the Pratimoksha, but it has nothing to do with Eisai whose lineage did not live long and there were a 23 other Zen lineages established later but only one survived after the 19th century. The surviving lineage is of course that of Hakuin, who can be traced back to https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8D%97%E6%B5%A6%E7%B4%B9%E6%98%8E (南浦紹明, 1235ｰ1308)) who studied under Lanxi Daolong (蘭溪道隆) in Japan but later went to China and (allegedly) was transmitted by Xutang Zhiyu (虚堂智愚). As he had two Chinese masters I assume he received the threefold ordination (full precepts) and not just the bodhisattva one.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 2nd, 2011 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thread split to http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3200


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, February 1st, 2011 at 6:07 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana) : Will it stick ?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Why the worry about Vajrayana becoming a mass movement? I mean, it has been out for a large number of people for more than a thousand years, not just in Tibet but in India, China and other countries. I understand that people can have strong feelings for their own religious tradition - so excuse me for this - but Vajrayana is as much a form of (non-tribal) religion as any other and so one of its features is converting as many people as possible. So, with growing numbers, it becomes stratified and there are then a majority of initiates who are the laity and those few who are the zealots. In this sense, initiation (empowerment, baptism, anointment, etc.) is in fact a ritual for accepting new members. Sure, one can understand and see lot more in an initiation, and that is indeed where the difference lies between those who just want to hang around and those who aim high. We can already see a small number of authentic Vajrayana masters teaching through the internet, where practically anyone can join in. And naturally there are people who feel this is desacralisation and blasphemy but others at the same time see the opportunity for introducing people to essential teachings. To keep Vajrayana around it is important to spread it. When HHDL gives a Kalacakra empowerment thousands show up, they make a connection. If an unknown lama does that only a dozen people come. Is it really better to keep it on a family level? I don't think that will make it stay for long.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, February 1st, 2011 at 4:02 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism, Right View and Awakening
Content:
Astus wrote:
What is intellectualising? My answer for this is that it is solely for the purpose of defining concepts to elaborate on ideas. Is that something wrong? I don't think so. Is that relevant to Buddhism? Not really. There are lot of sutras with dozens of commentaries and even more treatises written about those texts. Is that just intellectualising, a "l'art pour l'art" thing? Hardly ever. Studying, analysing and contemplating are common practices of Buddhism. And they're not just good for the one cultivating it but also helpful for letting people learn and understand the Dharma. And in the end, pondering about the uselessness of intellectualising is intellectualising.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 31st, 2011 at 10:10 PM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
Because I was looking for a new explanation, a new view, a different method to solve the question.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 31st, 2011 at 7:06 PM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
Geoff,

Then it seems what I thought as the resolution agrees with what Mipham (and others before) have said. Well, it is sad.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 31st, 2011 at 4:32 PM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
I try to clarify the problem I see. If we say there's a common perception it means that two people share the same thought (vijnapti), or that their thoughts are similar. It could be that that thought was given from one person to the other or it came from a third mind. Both for sharing and causing-receiving there's a need for some sort of connection between minds. That connection, however, is problematical because the identity of the mind-stream has to be maintained. If it is possible to directly influence another's mind there's a chance of mixing karma for instance, so it'd become possible for buddhas to liberate beings instantly.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 31st, 2011 at 6:22 AM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
It'd be a contradiction because if one could perceive another's mind it'd mean it is not just the creation of one's own mind that is perceived but something else too.

I find no problem with different Mahayana schools and sutras meaning the same thing, it's kind of my understanding too. Nevertheless, it's besides the point here.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 31st, 2011 at 5:25 AM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
Yes, the whole connection between mind-streams is in the realm of samvrttisatya, as obviously on a final level there is neither one nor many and even the concept of a single mind-stream is meaningless. But it is also in the realm of conventionality to say appearances are only mental and that there are individual mind-streams. Now, to say that one mind produces a cause which matches a condition in another mind-stream doesn't mean anything beyond saying that there is a causal relationship, however, that doesn't explain the actual thing of mind-streams connected to each other. I mean, on the conventional level mind-streams are separate and as Yogacara claims, on an ordinary level there is no such thing as perceiving another's mind, which would result in a contradiction of the premise of consciousness only. That's why I ask if there is any description of communication, of inter-relationship between minds.

One way out of this problem that I see is to say that the teaching of consciousness only is not meant to explain the working of the illusory world in a cittamatra way, as mind-streams and beings exist only in the form of parikalpita, consequently it goes along with the common terms of internal and external, one and many, so no need to describe the connection of mind-streams, since from the point on one contemplates how all is a creation of the mind one is moving away from the conventional view out of which no communication exists. But then we are at an almost identical view as the Madhyamaka and others except for the terminology and the approach.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 31st, 2011 at 3:12 AM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dexing,

"This is a matter of different consciousnesses (or minds) influencing the direction of one another"

And my question is how exactly such an interaction can happen between one mind-stream and another, and I mean direct interaction as there are only mind-streams that do not merge. It is possible to say they're interrelated but that requires a description how they can do that without confusing up individuals mental streams.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 31st, 2011 at 12:31 AM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
No need to establish a material basis when: 1. in both cases the origin of the world is karmic; 2. it results in a world of four elements. The only difference I see is that Yogacara is explicit about the ultimately mental nature of the world.

Calling it either common or external makes little difference when the world is not taken to be a mental thing compared to emotions and thoughts, also there is a distinction made between the world and beings.

Looking at it this way there's little new in calling it consciousness only or realist. Or, again, it still requires an explanation for direct mental connection between beings. Such an explanation could be also good for other teachings, like certain siddhis and meditations.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 30th, 2011 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't see the difference then in the common version of a world originating from the beings karma and consciousness only. But then it isn't exactly so that the world as commonly perceived is not at all external, since it can't establish connection between mind-streams directly.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 30th, 2011 at 7:58 PM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
Geoff,

Thanks for the quote. However, while it explains a bit of the emergence of samsara OK, it doesn't answer how a common ground can actually be established in the sense of the interaction between mind-streams. Because even if minds have common factors it doesn't explain a connection between them. In an everyday situation there are speech and other forms of expressions conveying a meaning, so there is a seemingly external space between minds to make contact. But when all external phenomena are mental factors of a single mind-stream it requires some form of connection between different minds to share a common view. Maybe it's me not understanding Mipham's explanation, so please clarify.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 30th, 2011 at 9:07 AM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
It's one thing to say there are no phenomena except mental ones. But what I haven't seen described yet is how mind-streams can actually communicate with each other. How minds are connected without being the same? I think this is quite an important question especially in Yogacara. Any answers?


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 30th, 2011 at 4:53 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Height
Content:
Rael said:
It is weird that today we question the Mahayana and some ridicule the superstitious.....
for the ancient masters seemed to believe the Mahayana as words of the Buddha or transmitted through the Dharma Kaya Body...

Astus wrote:
People questioned quite a lot of things before too. Just when you say "ancient masters", who do you mean? Like, Xuanzang and Fazang are both ancient masters, just as Dolpopa and Tsongkhapa. There has never been "The Mahayana" but quite a lot of views on it, even within the sutras themselves. I'm not sure it's appropriate at all to polarise between "modern" and "traditional" in this topic.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 30th, 2011 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Height
Content:
Astus wrote:
Geoff,

Sure, I can agree with those. But I'm not sure if it addresses the issue raised.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 30th, 2011 at 12:04 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Height
Content:
Huseng said:
Another example to consider is the Mahāyānasūtrālamkārakārikā which while nominally penned by Asanga is said to have actually been composed by Maitreya and transmitted to Asanga.

Astus wrote:
The Sutralamkara starts with arguing for the authenticity of Mahayana and lists quite a lot of reasons. One of that is that the Buddha hasn't warned about Mahayana, so it is authentic. Putting it in another way, if it is "contemporary" with the Agamas (as the text claims), what did not the Buddha simply state that there is a Mahayana (and others) after? Really, it is not necessary to go to the scholars and wonder why it is that Mahayana teachings keep referring back to those in the Agamas. But even if we put aside historicity, in theory and practice the Agama teachings form the basics of Mahayana.

Yeshe D. said:
including the classical Theravāda

Astus wrote:
It is with purpose I don't say Theravada, as that itself is a development from earlier teachings. Also, I'm not arguing for any sort of "protestant Buddhism".

Here's a fine phrasing of the meaning of skilful means:

"If someone comes and asks about seeking buddha, I immediately appear in conformity with the state of purity; if someone asks about bodhisattvahood, I immediately appear in conformity with the state of compassion; if someone asks me about bodhi, I immediately appear in conformity with the state of pure mystery; if someone asks me about nirvana, I immediately appear in conformity with the state of serene stillness. Though there be ten thousand different states, the person does not differ. Therefore,

According with things he manifests a form,
Like the moon [refl ecting] on the water."
(Record of Linji, p. 16, tr. RF Sasaki)


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, January 29th, 2011 at 6:34 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Height
Content:
tobes said:
singular in its assertion of truth and meaning?

Astus wrote:
What I mean is that to accord with different inclinations you transform the teaching to look more attractive, thus setting up more steps before the end. It's what the Lotus Sutra's chapters on skilful means and the three parables are about. The difference in what I say here is that unlike that sutra's positioning a later teaching as the final intention and greater revelation, the argument here is that all the different teachings lead within themselves to the same realisation (not three but one vehicle) and there are no successive attainments (arhat, bodhisattva, buddha).

tobes said:
But maybe I would say that any genealogy has twists and turns, tensions and ambiguities.

Astus wrote:
Certainly it is good to see how different teachings emerged and come to dominate depending on its environment.

TMingyur said:
So the question as to "height of teachings" can be validly asked only in the context of either Mahayana or sravakayana, but it is not valid across sravakayana and Mahayana.

Astus wrote:
The differentiation of inferior and great vehicle is only within a Mahayana context which makes comparison valid even according to your argument.

Rael said:
a Tulku once told me once one experiences Sunyata and combine it with love and compassion your enlightened.

Astus wrote:
Adding prajna to the equation makes the difference indeed.

Rael said:
which isn't exactly what i was talking about.

Astus wrote:
Excuse me for the mistake.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, January 29th, 2011 at 8:07 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Height
Content:
Pero said:
To what are you reffering too with "later" here?

Astus wrote:
Teachings that followed those before them. That is, Madhyamaka is later than Abhidharma but earlier than Yogacara, while Yogacara is earlier than Vajrayana. Historically earlier and later, which also reflects how one teaching is built upon another.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, January 29th, 2011 at 4:27 AM
Title: Re: Questioning Height
Content:
Rael said:
If a teaching is all about Love and compassion then it is a product of the turning of the Dharma Wheel.

Astus wrote:
In Buddhism only love and compassion doesn't lead to liberation but rather to the brahma-heavens.

TMingyur said:
The sravaka teachings cannot be compared to the Mahayana teachings because their intended audience is different.

Astus wrote:
What teaching is it meant only for sravakas but not for others? Even the five dhyani buddhas are equated to the different skandhas and the threefold training is used by everyone within Buddhism. Mahayana teachings are based upon the basics without what it couldn't stand at all. What I'm saying is that what came after the core speeches are further elaborations and embellishments on those basic tenets for the sake of helping beings.

Pero said:
Why do you think varied =! simple?

Astus wrote:
By simply I didn't mean easy but less complicated. Like the difference between a piece of clay and a thousand-armed Avalokita statue.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 28th, 2011 at 8:32 PM
Title: Re: Questioning Height
Content:
Astus wrote:
They're doctrinally lower in the sense that there are more skilful means applied, more "smoke and mirrors" to help beings. It's like the Buddha showing Nanda the heavenly maidens who eventually achieves Nirvana.

Well, calling teachings higher and lower is very much part of Mahayana, so I find it important to address it.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 28th, 2011 at 4:47 PM
Title: Questioning Height
Content:
Astus wrote:
The Agama/Nikaya teachings can be taken under two categories: early teachings (historically) and fundamental/basic teachings (doctrinally). On them were built the Abhidharma, Madhyamaka, Yogacara, Tathagatagarbha and Vajrayana teachings. What the many developments brought about for Buddhism were a large number of skilful means and a more sophisticated view. Now, my question is if there's any validity for stating that one teaching is higher than the other. There are two perspectives: the teaching and the practitioner. From the point of the teaching, the more forms and methods it has the better. From the point of the practitioner, the stronger one's obstructions are more skilful means are needed to be applied. Thus the most varied teaching fits the largest number of people, while the simplest teaching is for the smallest number. This makes the later teachings lower doctrinally and higher applicably. What do you think?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 27th, 2011 at 4:37 PM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
TMingyur said:
The OP stated "consciousness only" in context of "Yogacara". And this is what I am referring to.


Astus wrote:
I don't follow you. Cittamatra and Yogacara are almost the same words.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 27th, 2011 at 5:42 AM
Title: Re: Kyerim and Dzogrim by HE Sangye Nyenpa Rinpoche
Content:
Astus wrote:
I've found it a very neat summary of different aspects of Vajrayana. Thanks for the link.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 26th, 2011 at 4:50 PM
Title: Re: Sooner or Later: Yogacara
Content:
Astus wrote:
Depending on what we take as the Yogacara position, either it is hardly used by anyone or it's mostly accepted. If Yogacara means their sophisticated teachings with that Abhidharmic style, not many. If it's just accepting the teachings of consciousness-only, 8 consciousnesses and three svabhavas, it's accepted in most of East-Asian doctrines and in the Kagyu, Nyingma and Jonang schools. But this second kind is rather called the Tathagatagarbhavada, imo.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 26th, 2011 at 3:49 AM
Title: Re: Levels of enlightenment
Content:
Astus wrote:
Well, first of all, there are the 52 levels of enlightenment ( https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh/%E4%BA%94%E5%8D%81%E4%BA%8C%E4%BD%8D: ten faiths 十信, ten abodes 十住, ten practices 十行, ten transferences 十迴向, ten grounds 十地, ultimate enlightenment 等覺, wonderful enlightenment 妙覺). There are also other divisions, like the http://ctzen.org/sunnyvale/enUS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=150&Itemid=57 (六即佛), and other common levels used in Mahayana ( http://www.lotsawahouse.org/patrul/stages_and_paths.html ).

Specifically Zen levels are the so called "five ranks" (五位), and the "four (positions) of host and guest" (四主賓), and there can be a few others, depending on how we take it. But there are two important things to be clear about. First, that the doctrines you find generally in Mahayana are accepted by Zen too, and in most of the cases there is no need for any "Zen teaching" on them. Second, Zen is a quite diverse school for a couple of reasons, therefore different teachers and lineages use different doctrines. What I find a common pattern that goes back to the early masters like Baizhang Huaihai is a thee-level setting that corresponds quite well to certain Sanlun and Tiantai doctrines and can be seen in this teaching by Ven. Shengyan: http://www.dharmadrum.org/content/chan_garden/chan_garden3.aspx?sn=48.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 26th, 2011 at 2:08 AM
Title: Re: Erik Pema Kunzang offically a Dharma teacher now.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sadhu! Sadhu!


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 25th, 2011 at 5:23 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana) : Will it stick ?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Many lineages have a quite large body of texts, which in practical terms are much more necessary for practice than the Indian root tantras."

That is a practical perspective and sure most of the practitioners would not ever study those root texts. But if we consider having monks with higher studies it'd be important to provide the more complicated parts beyond the minimal requirements.

"A more important problem is funding monastics and lay practitioners who are ready for advanced, long term retreat."

It is then the same as in every other Buddhist group, proper monetary support and large enough lay base for that. To reach that there's a great demand for marketing and preaching, not just to the small community. And this points to the same thing, the need for monasteries. No matter how easy or hard it is for laymen to follow the path, only monastics (or paid cleargy) are qualified to maintain the tradition. Thus to have Vajrayana / Tibetan Buddhism stay around, it needs people willing to pay for it and take the concept of giving and merit to heart.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 25th, 2011 at 2:42 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana) : Will it stick ?
Content:
Pero said:
Probably because it's not so easy to translate tantras.

Astus wrote:
I don't know anything about that. But since some have managed to translate them, it can't be impossible. Also, there is a growing number of tantric texts, like those made by the http://www.tibetanclassics.org/list_of_volumes.html or the http://www.aibs.columbia.edu/?q=node/8. Personally I find it strange that while many Tibetan teachers have given mass Kalacakra initiations, the text itself is only in Tibetan (and perhaps some other Asian languages).


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 24th, 2011 at 8:27 PM
Title: Re: Why danger of Elder teachings for Mahayana follower?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I believe there's enough said about the Pali Canon and bodhicitta, plus that discussion has stopped. Now the thread is locked.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 24th, 2011 at 7:26 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana) : Will it stick ?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"After observing this movement for 30 years, my conclusion is that Vajrayana is not really suitable for most people in both the West and in Asia, including Tibet. You cannot generalize, of course. There are certainly exceptions, but in most cases it is not suitable."
Shamar Rinpoche in "An Answer to a Question Raised about Bodhi Path - Why the Bodhi Path Centers I organized are not Vajrayana?", 06.07.10 - http://www.shamarpa.org " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is a valid point to make a distinction between Tibetan Buddhism and Vajrayana. I think there are lot of publications on Tibetan Buddhism, and it is still developing and growing, that generally speaking Tibetan Buddhism is now an important and significant part of Western Buddhism. How much of that is Vajrayana is a good question. For instance, I don't see tantras getting translated, only a few are available (not counting  short 1-10 pages texts used internally by communities). And even those major ones translated (can think of only 3 now - Hevajra, Guhyagarbha, Cakrasamvara) they're done mainly with scholarly purposes (which is not a problem in itself, imo). So, while teachers are happy to share Dharma with the people, who spreads Vajrayana on all levels? Are there Western Vajra-masters?


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 23rd, 2011 at 6:03 AM
Title: Re: Why danger of Elder teachings for Mahayana follower?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think you are mixing up "bodhisattvayana" and "sutrayana".

Not exactly. Vajrayana does have the attitude of putting itself higher than what was generally understood as the bodhisattva path, but that is a debate or discussion for a different thread. But I can point to East-Asian Mahayana teachings about the Ultimate Path, the Tathagata Vehicle, the sudden and perfect teaching found within Tiantai, Huayan and Chan.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 23rd, 2011 at 5:46 AM
Title: Re: Why danger of Elder teachings for Mahayana follower?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"However there are teachings about bodhicitta in the sutras and commentaries of the Mahayana."

There are also a couple of Mahayana sutras and other texts not dealing with bodhicitta. There are also other texts within Mahayana teaching about an even higher path than the bodhisattvayana.

The Abhidharmakosabhasyam (vol. 2, chapter 4., section VI., verses 108-112, p. 690-694), containing both Vaibhasika and Sautrantika teachings, elaborates on what a bodhisattva is and what such a being practices to achieve buddhahood. Naturally it mentions both bodhicitta and the paramitas.

Here's an analysis of the paramitas and the bodhisattva path within Theravada by Acariya Dhammaphala: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/wheel409.html

See this very fine essay by Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi that clarifies certain points about common misunderstandings: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/arahantsbodhisattvas.html


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 23rd, 2011 at 2:40 AM
Title: Re: Why danger of Elder teachings for Mahayana follower?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Hanzze,

How does this not answer your original question?

Unknown said:
There is no danger in losing bodhicitta because one studies the very teachings of the Buddha.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, January 22nd, 2011 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: Why danger of Elder teachings for Mahayana follower?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is no danger in losing bodhicitta because one studies the very teachings of the Buddha. In fact, bodhicitta is not a thing one can lose, but an attitude and view one has to develop and maintain. Shakyamuni was a perfect teacher and he had no problem at all with teaching so many things. How on earth could it be in any way dangerous to study them?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, January 22nd, 2011 at 3:27 AM
Title: Re: Why danger of Elder teachings for Mahayana follower?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Hanzze,

Teachings to reach human and heavenly birth are very much present in Mahayana, not to mention methods to attain earthly welfare (e.g. mantras and rituals). An important point is that whatever Mahayana teaching you may find, they're all built upon the earlier teachings, in this case represented by the Pali Canon (although Mahayana has used the Sanskrit texts and not the Pali). Thus we could say that Mahayana includes the teachings found in the Nikayas and accepts them as valid Buddha-speech.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 21st, 2011 at 10:08 PM
Title: Re: Why danger of Elder teachings for Mahayana follower?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Hanzze,

None of the four defeats in your quote may come from studying the Pali Canon but rather the opposites of them. Also, on of the essential practices of bodhisattvas, the four immeasurables, are articulated in quite a few suttas of the Pali Canon.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 21st, 2011 at 8:15 PM
Title: Re: The so-called emptiness of objects
Content:
Astus wrote:
"How can there be an origin to anything which is empty?"

Emptiness means impermanence, impermanence is arising, remaining and disappearing. Only empty things can have an origin and an end. But exactly because there is an origin there is no real (eternal and independent) origin, because there is cause there is no real cause.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, January 21st, 2011 at 4:43 PM
Title: Re: Why danger of Elder teachings for Mahayana follower?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Just to re-emphasise what Swampflower said, the paths (sravaka, pratyeka, bodhisattva) are primarily about motivation and not doctrine. Compared to the sravaka way the extra what a bodhisattva does is the accumulation of merits. In terms of wisdom sravaka and bodhisattva are equal. Also, the whole concept of a bodhisattvayana is not a "Mahayana" product but has existed in schools like the Sarvastivada and Dharmagupta - and many of their interpretations became mainstream in Mahayana - just as it does in Theravada now.

I find it a mistaken concept to believe that there is a clear border between "Hinayana" and "Mahayana" teachings. Keep in mind that there has never been a school or group of schools called Hinayana, it's just a convenient term to call most of Indian Buddhist schools. Thus what one may consider Mahayana teachings are in many cases found word by word in earlier "Hinayana" texts and schools, including the idea that a bodhisattva has to practise through many aeons and go through the five paths (accumulation, preparation, insight, meditation, no more learning). So a "Mahayana follower" is the one who focuses on walking to bodhisattva path instead of the sravaka way but it is no way a rejection of any of the teachings of Buddha.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 19th, 2011 at 4:18 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and endless time
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sherab,

This is not a series of questions about what was before or after but a system of dependent origination which is simply a universal law stating that things arise dependently and not without a cause, from which comes there is no first cause existing without a cause of its own, consequently mind-streams are eternal.

Ultimately dharmas don't exist, just like anything else, but then, there is the conventional existence of the dharmas. It is exactly because of being conventional that ultimately they're not established and empty.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 19th, 2011 at 7:04 AM
Title: Re: The so-called emptiness of objects
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Mahāyāna doctrines stop before asserting any sort of external phenomena."

Prasangika Madhyamaka specifically affirms external phenomena, it's even listed among their "unique tenets".


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 19th, 2011 at 12:42 AM
Title: Re: Share Your Favorite Buddhist Blogs
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://wakeupandlaugh.wordpress.com/ - group blog of followers and admirers of Daehaeng Kunsunim.

http://sujato.wordpress.com/ - the title says it.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 18th, 2011 at 5:19 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and endless time
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Such explanations by its very nature, can never be a complete explanation."

Sorry, but this is just repeating that it is a problem and not answering why it is a problem.

"If you agree with Nagarjuna's argument, then there can be no real moments and no real momentariness, since the same argument about the impossibility of a before, after and simultaneous phase is applicable to moments as well."

Ultimately not even dharmas exist, so they can't be outside of time. Conventionally, however, the Abhidharma system is not at fault. An important difference between Madhyamaka and Abhidharma teachings is how the two truths are defined. In Abhidharma the dharmas are ultimate, in Madhyamaka dharmas are conventional only. However, being conventional doesn't mean it is non-existent or not true at all.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 18th, 2011 at 6:54 AM
Title: Re: "Free Belief Buddhism"
Content:
Astus wrote:
As you're discussing some Tibetan teachers, here's one I read yesterday,

"Some people find comfort in thinking that death is just like a fire that was put out or water that dried up. But death isn't at all like that. According to the words of the fully enlightened Buddha and the many texts of the bodhisattvas, the mind doesn't die. When the body dies, the mind remains under the power of habitual patterns and karma. Thus, those who trust the Buddha and the tradition he inspired will believe in birth, death, and the cause and effect of karmic actions."

(Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche -  Repeating the Words of the Buddha, Rangjung Yeshe Pub., 1992. p. 95)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 18th, 2011 at 4:20 AM
Title: Re: "Free Belief Buddhism"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Little extra on karma, rebirth and speech.

"Harsh speech — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from harsh speech is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to unappealing sounds." ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an08/an08.040.than.html )



"Those who with body and mouth curse at people, after death fall into the Tongue Ripping Hell." (Karma of Good and Evil Sutra T85n2881_p1381c19) More: http://www.cttbusa.org/esscommentary/earthstore5.htm.

For further contemplation: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.3.03.than.html


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 18th, 2011 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: "Free Belief Buddhism"
Content:
Chaz said:
In light of this thread becoming an excercise in stating who is qualified to teach the Dharma and who isn't, please tell me what qualifies Ven Ledi to teach on the subject?

I imagine you find Venerable's teaching most acceptable seeing as you're recommending him, but to be fair, simply agreeing with a teacher isn't sufficient credential (although disagreement seems to be in other ways).

Astus wrote:
I have not addressed the issue whether anyone is qualified or not qualified to teach. In my view it is the teaching that matters and not the teacher. To tell if a person is really a great teacher takes first of all personal contact and long term relationship. Sure this is a bit extreme but a measure I like to keep in mind.

For instance, when Batchelor was in Budapest my friend met him and I've heard many good things about him. I've also found certain positive things about Batchelor and what he does. But that is not the same as agreeing with him in all things. And just because I can't agree with the concept that Buddhism can be fully comprehended and practised without rebirth doesn't mean I have to have bad feelings about anyone who teaches just that.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 17th, 2011 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and endless time
Content:
Astus wrote:
Norman,

What do you mean dharmas are not in time? What about their basic description of them being momentary and in that momentariness they have the phases of arising and disappearing?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 17th, 2011 at 10:00 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and endless time
Content:
Astus wrote:
We are then back to the problem of beginningless causality-chain.

Why would a beginningless causality be a problem? There is samsara without a beginning, consciousness without beginning, ignorance without beginning. That is, there has never been a first moment of delusion, a creation, a start of existence, a source.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 17th, 2011 at 4:55 PM
Title: Re: "Free Belief Buddhism"
Content:
TMingyur said:
Considering that the "don't know mind" is a practice approach agnosticism appears to comply.
There is however a subtle bolderline between agnosticism and rejection. What is what in a given case may only be decided based on textual analysis.

Astus wrote:
It is a great mistake to confuse Seung Sahn's "don't know mind" with agnosticism. In http://www.kwanumzen.org/zen.html it is a term equal to http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=3057. Agnosticism is being hindered by doubt, the fifth of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_hindrances.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 17th, 2011 at 4:38 PM
Title: Re: "Free Belief Buddhism"
Content:
Chaz said:
It's been my understanding that "Right View" involves a correct perspective on the 4 Noble truths.  Rebirth, for one thing, isn't present in that understanding.

Unless I'm missing something really important, your statement sounds more like trying to maintain a doctrinal status quo than trying to promote or preserve "right view".

Seems to be a common thread  Buddhist boards these day.

Astus wrote:
In the list of ten unwholesome actions the last one is "wrong views". It is defined in the Saleyyaka Sutta (MN 41) in the following way:

Or he has wrong view, distorted vision, thus: 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed, no fruit and ripening of good and bad kammas, no this world, no other world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously (born) beings, no good and virtuous monks and brahmans that have themselves realized by direct knowledge and declare this world and the other world.'

Also see this teaching by Ven. Ledi Sayadaw: http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh245-p.html where under right view he gives a detailed explanation of what it actually consists of.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 17th, 2011 at 7:11 AM
Title: Re: "Free Belief Buddhism"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Guifeng Zongmi - an influential Chan and Huayan master whose teachings are still taught in Korea where Batchelor learned his Zen things - categorised the teachings into five levels of which the first is the path of humans and gods. Generally the path of humans and gods covers the teachings that are good for gaining one a rebirth as a human or a god, i.e. the ethical and certain meditative practices. Removing the doctrine of karma and rebirth from a teaching makes it obviously outside of any teaching that is considered Buddhist in any sense. So from this perspective Buddhism without belief in rebirth means not Buddhism but an outer path that doesn't lead to any kind of liberation but at best to a higher birth if ethical teachings are kept.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 17th, 2011 at 6:10 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and endless time
Content:
Astus wrote:
Norman,

Yes, that goes for the empty part of samsara and time and all concepts. But as for the conventional side, we can very well say that there was never a starting point of samsara, there was never a first cause (i.e. God). Buddhist cosmology talks about the periods of arising and destruction, a never stopping cycle of events.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 17th, 2011 at 6:04 AM
Title: Re: Lure of Bhutanese happiness index
Content:
Astus wrote:
It certainly sounds more challenging to make people happy than to get them a proper salary. Not that any of that are generally achieved by most countries.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 16th, 2011 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: Amitabha Sutra commentary
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ouyi Zhixu's (1599-1655) commentary to the Amitabha Sutra: http://www.ymba.org/freebooks_main.html

Xingyun: http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism/D%20-%20Chinese%20Mahayana%20Buddhism/Authors/Hsing%20Yun/The%20Amitabha%20Sutra/14%20Amitabha%20Sutra.htm

Reading the Amitabha Sutra in Sanskrit line by line with vocabulary and commentary http://buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw/BDLM/en/lesson/fan/lesson_fan2.htm#1.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, January 15th, 2011 at 9:11 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and endless time
Content:
Astus wrote:
Norman,

The analysis of time in the MMK is in the 19th chapter. This chapter (11) is mainly about samsara, and generally about the concepts of beginning, middle and end. As none of the three can be established as truly existent samsara is not truly existent. Not being truly existent is its inconceivability. Saying that samsara is eternal is of course equally wrong as it'd mean it is truly existent but this time from an eternalist point of view.

Here's Tsongkhapa's commentary to verse 1:

Ocean of Reasoning p. 266-268 said:
If cyclic existence existed inherently, then like such things as a pot, it would also have a beginning and an end. But it is said that cyclic existence does not have a beginning or end, in that the cycle of birth, aging, and death does not have an origin or a terminus.
Various non-Buddhist teachers, including Purana a, held a discussion and decided to ask the Buddha whether he knew that this cyclic existence has a beginning or end. They said that if he says that he does, this would contradict the many statements that there is no creator and that nothing arises without a cause, but if he says that he does not, he would contradict his statement that he is omniscient. Then they asked him “Hey, Gautama! Do you know that this cyclic existence has a beginning?” The great sage replied, “There is no knowledge of a beginning.” Thus, having said that cyclic existence has no beginning or end, he said clearly that it does not exist essentially. Therefore, since the origin and terminus are not seen, cyclic existence does not exist essentially; cyclic existence is like the circle made by swinging a glowing ember.
Someone might say, “The statement that cyclic existence has no origin demonstrates that there is no specific point from which it arises, nor any point after which it does not continue. How could it be tenable that to say that neither of these exists is to say explicitly that cyclic existence does not exist essentially?” But here we reply that the statement, “Cyclic existence has neither origin nor terminus,” does not mean what you say it does, but instead means that he has also said that there is neither a beginning nor an end. This means that they do not exist ultimately. Buddhapalita also says in the same vein,

In accordance with the presentation of the ultimate, the Buddha has said “there is neither beginning nor end.”

Thus, this does not contradict Prasannapada’s earlier explanation. Suppose someone thought as follows: Responding “I don’t know” to the question, “Do you know that there is a beginning?” is a conventional statement. How could this be a premise for the assertion that cyclic existence is essenceless?
Here, consider the similar argument in Yuktisastika:

If through the elimination of afflictions
monks depart from cyclic existence,
Why have the buddhas not
Explained the beginning?

If there were an end of cyclic existence—and of aggregates that exist through their own characteristics—then there would be no reason for saying that there is no initial beginning.
Suppose someone argued as follows: If the teacher had denied that there is a beginning and end of cyclic existence, then this would contradict the following statement in sutra that there is elimination at the end:

Therefore, oh monks, one should make strenuous effort to eliminate cyclic existence. Thinking that, you should begin training immediately.  [Samyuttanikaya XV Anamataggasamyuttam, IX Dandasuttam, Vol. II, 616]

There is no contradiction here, because this quotation from sutra presents only the cyclic existence of those “sentient beings who are ignorant” as having no end, but for those who have completely eliminated the afflictions, there is an end.
Suppose one thought, would it not be contradictory for that which lacks an origin to have a terminus? There is no contradiction, because, as Catuhsataka says,

Just as the terminus of the seed is seen,
But the origin is not seen,
Without completing all of the causes,
Nor does birth occur. [VIII: 25]

Just as even though the seed does not have an origin, there is a terminus when it is burned by fire, although birth does not have a beginning for those who have not completed the causes through the exhaustion of the afflictions, it is said that there is a terminus—the exhaustion of that birth which occurs due the afflictions. Here, although the origin and terminus are equally nonexistent with respect to the way things really are, conventionally, the origin and terminus are not similar with respect to their existence and nonexistence.
Suppose someone says that although it has neither origin nor terminus essentially it must have a middle essentially, since that has not been refuted.

Astus wrote:
And another explanation by http://www.ktgrinpoche.org/Q8_samsara_does_not_truly_exist.pdf:
If samsara actually existed, it would have to have a beginning, an end, and some span of time in the middle. Analysis, however, cannot find any beginning to samsara. Whatever our current situation in samsara, it had to have its own causes, and those causes had to have their own causes, and so on—nothing in the cycle of existence occurs without causes to bring it into being. We can therefore never find an ‘‘original cause’’ that would constitute the beginning of cyclic existence, because if there were one, it would have arisen without a cause itself, which is impossible. Thus, there was no point when samsara began, and how could something that never began ever end? Without a beginning or an end, how could there be any period of time in the middle? Since it has neither beginning, middle, nor end, samsara does not truly exist.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2011 at 5:36 PM
Title: Re: Pre-Buddhist Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
As elements distinguishing Chan, a good comparison could be with Tiantai as it was its rival school for a couple of centuries. Tiantai has methods of both gradual and sudden type and has a patriarchal lineage - both from the time before the emergence of Chan. In fact, Chan has profited from teachings found in Tiantai, including its meditation techniques.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2011 at 4:56 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and endless time
Content:
norman said:
A conceptual, abstract ”beginning” is always implied whenever we consider rebirth. It provides the contextual background of our present assumed birth. That is, thinking of ourselves as having been reborn into this period of time is inconceivable unless it is put into relation to what is past – and if you perceive the past as being endless you'd find it hard to motivate the (assumed) karma that we're supposed to suffer from. I say supposed, because when should we begin to measure it (karma) in time, if there is no limit to it? It's like trying to measure the quantity of water in a bottomless well. I'd appreciate it's about 5 litres.

Astus wrote:
Problem 1: if every effect have to have a cause, as cause is an effect too, there can't be a causeless cause, thus a first cause is not possible.

Problem 2: understanding birth as a becoming of an entity supposes that such an entity was non-existent but now exists, which is saying that from nothing comes something, or that something becomes without cause.

Problem 1 is to show how a beginning point is fallacious from a causal point of view. Problem 2 points to the mistake of conceiving fixed beings (atman) instead of mind-streams.

Nagarjuna says ( http://www.stephenbatchelor.org/verses2.htm#Investigation%20of%20Extremes%20of%20Before%20and%20After ):

"When asked, “is a before-extreme evident?” the great Muni said, “it is not.” Samsara has no beginning, no end; it has no before, no after. For that without beginning [and] end, where can a middle be in that? Therefore, it is not possible for it to have before, after, and simultaneous phases."


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2011 at 5:39 AM
Title: Re: Pre-Buddhist Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
Do you mean that 1000 years of Chinese Buddhism was struggling? Not to mention that Chan did not bring about any new institution in the monastic system except for the spread of "house rules" as an extra for the Pratimoksha and bodhisattva precepts and the "patriarchal lineage" as a metaphoric family organisation tool.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2011 at 5:33 AM
Title: Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dharmakara,

I've seen that discussion with Walpola Rahula before. That is obviously Rahula's take of JK's views, so it'd be difficult to discuss how JK actually relates to Buddhism when there's hardly anything from Krishnamurti himself. What is apparent is JK's refutation of all forms of organised doctrine and practice, quite opposing perspective to the Buddha's Dharma and Vinaya.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2011 at 4:19 AM
Title: Re: Pre-Buddhist Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
What you say, that Chan developed from the mixture of Chinese culture and Buddhism, presupposes that it was more of an unconscious, natural progress rather than the work of highly educated elite Buddhist monks. But as we can see from the historical sources - both internal and external to the tradition - Chan was the domain of high ranking monks, i.e. they were the primary authorities and transmitters of the teaching. Being a Chan master who is a member of the lineage (n.b. this is from the Song dynasty on when an actual Chan school was conceived) was a matter of prestige rather than a purely religious thing (meaning that it wasn't about "if you're enlightened you're a master"). By all this I want to say that Chan is not some inconceivable, mystical tradition but a product of outstanding Buddhist monks who were trained in both worldly and religious teachings who could tell very well the difference between Buddhism and other views. A good example is Guifeng Zongmi's Inquiry into the Origin of Humanity (translated by Peter N. Gregory) where he explains how Confucianism and Taoism are on one part equals of Buddhist moral teachings while on the other they are only provisional and mistaken doctrines that don't lead to liberation.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2011 at 11:59 PM
Title: Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
Content:
Dharmakara said:
Came across a PDF entitled "An Instance of Dependent Origination"... it's described as a terse summary of Krishnamurti's teachings, though not sure how many pages as I don't have a PDF reader on this computer:

http://www.shin-ibs.edu/documents/pwj3-9/06Rodrigues39.pdf " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Astus wrote:
Perhaps it'd be the best if you could sum up in a few points what JK says.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2011 at 10:07 PM
Title: Re: Pre-Buddhist Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dharmakara,

Besides there being http://www.purifymind.com/BuildingBlocks.htm with the text you quoted, it shows no author or source. Also, it displays a few misunderstandings, like there being any kind of "Universal Mind" to return to, or that of a "philosophical Daoism" (which is itself non-existent but a creation of orientalists) confused with Buddhist teachings. So I doubt it has any relevance to this discussion.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2011 at 7:48 PM
Title: Re: Pre-Buddhist Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dharmakara,

First of all, it'd be good to identify what kind of Chan one means as it has never been a single set of doctrines but rather diverse, especially in the early period (7-10th century). Saying that Chan is "without words and from mind to mind" sounds inappropriate for the me, the reasons being: (1) "wordlessness" is a concept found often in the Prajnaparamita teachings and thus in every Mahayana school; (2) the concept of a transmission lineage of patriarchs was gradually developed throughout the centuries starting with the disciples of Shenxiu and the so called Lankavatara school, their text found in Dunhuang and translated by JC Cleary in Zen Dawn as "Records of the Teachers and Students of the Lanka". The whole idea of Huineng and that he was the real 6th patriarch came a bit later, just like the many stories of Bodhidharma. The complete transmission lineage solidified in the 11th century with the publication of the first collection of such a record, the Jingde(-era 1004-8) Lamp Transmission Record (Jingde Chuandeng Lu 景德傳燈錄) in 1004 after which only minor changes occurred.

In my opinion there is hard to find any doctrine within Chan that is not from Buddhist teachings but other sources. Also, Chan teachers of the early period were keen on establishing their teachings on the different sutras to make clear it to others their authenticity.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2011 at 7:19 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and endless time
Content:
Sherab said:
Huseng's argument is valid if we confined ourselves to just to the realm of experience of the five senses.

But Norman has a point too because in my view, an argument of infinite regress means that there cannot be a complete explanation.  There will always be something missing.

In reading the so-called "Mind Only" sutras, I get the sense that there is an implicate order from which explicate orders of sentience and matter arises.  Within that implicate order, past, present and future are not distinct.

Dzogchen seemed to me to be a little more explicit about this implicate order, which it termed as rigpa.  From rigpa, our world of phenomena, including both sentience and non-sentience things, arises.  Within the sentience that arose is an innate ignorance which the source of all our deluded actions (karma) and which resulted in our endless cycling in existence.

In rigpa (implicate order), the phenomenon of the flow of time is not there.  When our world of phenomena (explicate order) arose, past, present and future all arose together.

Astus wrote:
Huseng's argument applies to the mind-stream too, as the pinpointing of a beginning raises the mentioned problems. Also, if you affirm that defiled beings arose from a pure mind (rigpa) means that either defilement came from nowhere or that the mind wasn't pure. On the other hand, supposing an eternal mind is also problematical, that's why eventually people came up with the concept of the mind-stream, which is an application of the teaching of dependent origination.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2011 at 6:14 PM
Title: Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
Content:
Dharmakara said:
I recall coming across a critical examination of JK that seemed to cover such, though I'm going to have to look around and see if I can find it again.

Sorry, my mistake... it's actually the official repository of Krishnaturi's teachings, which includes search text feature:

http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/index.php " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Astus wrote:
I was hoping you've got something of 1-5 pages size.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2011 at 6:11 PM
Title: Re: Pre-Buddhist Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here is a list of works, just to show how the "legend of Chan" is not really the "history of Chan":

John R. McRae
The Northern School and the formation of early Chʻan Buddhism
Seeing through Zen: encounter, transformation, and genealogy in Chinese Chan Buddhism
Wendi Leigh Adamek
The mystique of transmission: on an early Chan history and its contexts
Jinhua Jia
The Hongzhou School of Chan Buddhism in Eighth- Through Tenth-Century China
Mario Poceski
Ordinary mind as the way: the Hongzhou school and the growth of Chan Buddhism
Albert Welter
The Linji lu and the creation of Chan orthodoxy: the development of Chan's records of sayings literature
Morten Schlutter
How Zen Became Zen: The Dispute Over Enlightenment and the Formation of Chan Buddhism in Song-Dynasty China
Jiang Wu
Enlightenment in dispute: the reinvention of Chan Buddhism in seventeenth-century China

There are other books, like the series edited by Steven Heine and Dale Stuart Wright, also a couple of works by Bernard Faure. But I think just reading McRae's "Seeing through Zen" is a very good introduction.

The point is, there is not just any pre-Buddhist Chan but there isn't even a clear cut Chan as represented by the tradition. Frankly, there isn't such Chan even now.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2011 at 8:47 AM
Title: Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Is there any summary of JK's teachings? To have something definitive to compare.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2011 at 8:43 AM
Title: Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dexing's question moved to new topic: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=3037


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2011 at 6:10 AM
Title: Re: Krishnamurti and Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
All quotes from the text in the OP:

"In Krishnamurti's view enlightenment comes by its own accord where and when it chooses, and there is little that we can do about it."

The clearly denies the whole point of the fourth noble truth, without which there is no Buddhism. It is a form of view of no causality.

"Enlightenment is a state that is timeless which means that its chief attribute is one of no-time, meaning no involvement with ego or ego-created time."

Enlightenment being timeless against thoughts being of time is pretty much a dualistic concept unlike those of Mahayana teachers.

The only thing remaining sacred in Krishnamurti's view is that which thought is incapable of capturing or the unknowable. All thoughts are mere human creations of the human brain stem and are forever incapable of capturing that which is infinite and unknowable.

First, this is disregarding the function of methods. Second, it doesn't show any knowledge of wisdom.

I don't know JK's teachings, haven't read a single book from him. But if these represent his views I fail to see how it resembles the teachings of the Buddha.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2011 at 8:32 PM
Title: Re: 信心 and how to develop it
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nosta,

They're not opposing views but different approaches. As you may well know, in PL there's made a separation of self-power and other-power. They basically mean attitudes. Self-power PL practices include visualisation and recitation when they're done with the intent of attaining birth through the taming of the mind. Other-power practice means that you rely on Amita Buddha's vow-power to attain birth. In practice it comes down to the recitation of the name with the intent of being mindful of the Buddha (nianfo - buddha-mindfulness) not necessarily to attain any special mind-state but to nurture faith. Thus reciation and faith are not really two but a single path. Honen affirms this in his http://www.jsri.jp/English/Honen/WRITINGS/ichimai.html: "Reciting the nembutsu does not come from studying and understanding its meaning. There is no other reason or cause by which we can utterly believe in attaining birth in the Pure Land than the nembutsu itself. Reciting the nembutsu and believing in birth in the Pure Land naturally gives rise to the three minds and the four modes of practice."


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, January 8th, 2011 at 9:20 AM
Title: Re: Dr. Reginald Ray
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is fascinating how nobody actually tried to look up in Dr. Ray's many publications what he says about rebirth. He had a two part article on it in Shambhala Sun (not bad ones either):

"Karma’s central place in the tradition is shown by the Buddha's own enlightenment, which consisted of nothing but seeing the full range and extent of karma-that nothing in the universe stands outside karma’s domain."

http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2232
http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2236&Itemid=0

One extra: http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2377&Itemid=243


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 6th, 2011 at 8:36 PM
Title: Re: 信心 and how to develop it
Content:
Astus wrote:
"When I carefully consider the matter, my birth in the Pure land is settled without doubt for the very reason that I do not rejoice about that which I should be bursting with joy. ... If our hearts were filled with joyful happiness and we desired to go swiftly to the Pure Land, we might be misled to think that perhaps we are free of blind passion." (Tannisho, IX.)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 6th, 2011 at 7:38 PM
Title: Re: Defining Buddhism - Theravada/Mahayana/Varayana
Content:
Huseng said:
Likewise, some might have seen Shakyamuni as a wise man and others something transcendental. The texts that later generations relied on allow for either interpretation. For example how do you interpret Shakyamuni complaining about a sore back? Was it skilful means? Or did he really have a sore back? Did the Buddha not eradicate all his negative karma -- why would he still suffer from a sore back if he had?

Astus wrote:
There's the funny story in the Vimalakirti Sutra about the Buddha asking for milk because he's sick, Ananada goes to get milk, Vimalakirti rebukes him harshly saying that the Buddha's body is the dharmakaya which can't be sick and finally a heavenly voice tells the poor fellow he should nevertheless take the milk to the Tathagata. So, the buddha is perfect but still gets sick and needs some milk.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, January 6th, 2011 at 1:17 AM
Title: Re: Defining Buddhism - Theravada/Mahayana/Varayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Just because Mahayana and Vajrayana were not taught by Gautama doesn't mean they're wrong or anything like that. A very good example is Bön which has many teachings from the Prajnaparamita up to Dzogchen, still, it accepts no connection to Gautama. Does that mean that the Bön Prajnaparamita is incorrect while the Kagyu Prajnaparamita is correct? And I'm not talking about the quality of the translations.

I take the position similar to Huseng's: it is possible to see the basic ideas in the agamas/nikayas of what has become Mahayana. But that doesn't mean Gautama himself literally taught Mahayana. Which again doesn't mean it is not correct Buddhism, in the meaning and content.

Let me copy this text from Sthiramati that once existed on Anders' website (Leaves from the Buddha's Grove) but now it's hard to obtain (found http://sutras.iespana.es/shastras/gran-vehiculo.html:
Sthiramati Bodhisattva
Entering the Great Vehicle [Mahayana]

[Q] Now we may desire to penetrate the meaning of 'Entering the Great Vehicle [Great Vehicle]'. What is the meaning of 'Entering the Great Vehicle'?

[A] I wrote this text for those who want to get rid of the cause of suffering. But you must also know that there might be those who approach a lax spiritual friend and take up a wrong and partial opinion as the Dharma. Then the newcomer might formulate a heretical view and, because of wrong mental application, be unable to penetrate to the True Meaning, unable to know the Enlightenment of the Buddha, and have doubt about his sayings. One who disparages the (Buddha's) holy sayings will then destroy the True Dharma, and have a great deal of evil retribution. As the Blessed One said, "the result of disparaging the Dharma is more heavy than the five grievous trangressions (killing mother, father, arhat, causing dissension in the Sangha or making Buddha bleed), and will bring immediate retribution. Because life in the downward paths is a long duration, the ripening of suffering will be experienced for a long while." And as the Sutra verses say:

"One who slanders the Dharma of the Great Vehicle goes to the lower states of being. This person experiences the ripening of his action and its true nature should be told. He's born deep in hell, and his body burns in great flames; the great torture of his incineration is always the result of sinful action. A blazing iron plow - for five hundred lives - rolls on the top of his tongue while the remainder of his body is struck with pain. If he manages to escape hell, he will still experience other forms of evil retribution and all his senses will be continually non-functioning and polluted; he'll never hear the sound of Dharma. In the exceptional case of one who happens to hear the Dharma, it will again be that he will slander the Holy Dharma,and because of this he will go back to hell."

So all those defaming the Dharma should listen here. You should maintain an attitude of doubt toward the Great Vehicle. Just like Aryadeva says in verse:

"One who has little merit will not even feel doubt about the Dharma. But existence is shredded by the mere presence of doubt." - Catusataka 8.5

If one has doubt having heard all the fundamental teachings of the Great Vehicle, one's intellect will penetrate the subjects and be open to Enlightenment. One who has become open to Enlightenment will [then] simply bring about trust in the teaching, which will lead to further joyand happiness. One who brings about this joy and happiness will obtain the insight brought about by listening, pondering and meditating on the Dharma. One will then progress all the way to total understanding of the Awareness of all States [of being], just like the Buddha.

Thus, we have those who denigrate the Great Vehicle and will fall into the lower realms of being, and those who generate all good actions because of the Great Vehicle. One will thus decay or grow depending on their association [with Great Vehicle]. If one's desire is for Insight, one will travel the path to Enlightenment. It is the same with all beings, since they all have this ability equally. If Enlightenment were separate from the capacity of sentient beings, then the path to Enlightenment would be unobtainable. But, from the realm of all beings comes the Enlightenment of All Buddhas. The Ven. Nagarjuna, in verse, says:

"It doesn't descend from space, nor does it arise from the ground. Rather, the direct perception of Total Enlightenment only happens in those having [first] encountered unskillful emotional states." - Suhrllekha 116

Now this treatise is about entering the Great Vehicle. But what sort of entity is this thing called the Great Vehicle? The collection of scripture known as the “bodhisattva basket” is the Great Vehicle.

One may object that the Buddha spoke of neither the three vehicles nor of the Great Vehicle. However, both of these were identified by the Buddha with the term “three baskets of the doctrine” (tripit.aka). As it is said in the Bodhisattva-pitaka-sutra:

“The Buddha addressed Ajaatasatru, ‘Son of good family. There are three kinds of baskets. Which are these? There is the disciple’s basket, the private buddha’s basket, and the bodhisattvas’ basket. Son of good family, we identify the term “three baskets” only by means of the Great Vehicle to be studied by all the bodhisattvas, not by means of the vehicles of the disciples or of the private Buddhas. Thus we call it the “three baskets”. Why? The expression of the dharma concerns all of the three vehicles, and this is why it is called the “three baskets”, yet only the dharma spoken to the bodhisattvas reflects the capacity to the practice of the three vehicles, so it is terms the “three baskets.”’

“’Son of good family, there are individuals who have the capability to train in one of three ways: those undertaking the disciples’ training, the private buddhas’ training, or the bodhisattvas’ training. Disciples do not study in the vehicle of the private buddhas since they are unable to penetrate its meaning. Likewise, private buddhas cannot penetrate the bodhisattva vehicle. Only the bodhisattvas are capable of studying others’ vehicles, yet they do not obtain realization in these paths but by means of the bodhisattva vehicle. Thus, theirs is the profound enlightenment of the Dharma to be practiced by the bodhisattvas. Because it has this significance, the bodhisattva vehicle is terms the “three baskets” and not the other’s vehicles.’”

Other scriptures also elaborate the following exhaustive distinctions, which I am now going to summarize, so please listen. You may think that the Great Vehicle is not part of the three baskets. Then, the three baskets consist of: the Enumerated Discourses, the Middle-length Discourses, the Long Discourses, and the Scattered Discourses, constituting the one hundred thousand plus verses of the first basket; the discipline and the higher dharma, composing the two hundred thousand verses of the second basket; and the complete cultivations composing the third basket. This, in fact, is not to be identified with the three baskets. Why? Because many other scriptures would not be considered the word of the Buddha. Yet there are still other scriptures than those included in the discourses, the discipline, and the higher dharma. There are the works of the “scattered basket”, the Tiger Scripture, the Womb Scripture, the Advice to Kings, Prior Births of the Buddha, the Dependent Origination for Private Buddhas -- altogether eighty-four thousand baskets of doctrine. If only the three baskets are the word of the Buddha, then we would have the problem that not everything collected by the venerable Ananda would be considered the word of the Buddha. Thus, we should identify all of them with the term “basket”, and conclude that there are over one hundred thousand baskets of the dharma.

One may object that the Blessed One has previously said, “After my Nirvana, in the future there will come many who will sit around and argue, ‘This is the word of the Buddha, this is not the word of the Buddha.’” In response to this anticipated circumstance, the Tathagata has sealed his doctrine with the seal of the dharma. “If the meaning of a scripture is in harmony with the discourses, if it is in accord with the discipline, and if it does not contradict the nature of reality [dependent origination], then that scripture may be termed the word of the Buddha.”

Our response to this objection is that the Buddha certainly did not apply these criteria to the bodhisattva vehicle while exempting the disciple’s vehicle. The Buddha’s word is not dissimilar in either case but indicates a single nature to be sealed by the seal of the dharma. Now, as to your means of comparison between a scripture proposed as the word of the Buddha and the three baskets, is it done by means of the letter of the texts or by the significance? If it is by the letter, then it is impossible that any of the twelve sections of scripture should be the word of the Buddha, since they all have different verses, sections, and sentences. But if the comparison is performed by examining the meaning through reason which does not contradict the nature of reality, then a meaning which harmonizes with the significance of discourses and is characterized by reality accordingly demonstrates its own significance. So those discourses which demonstrate the significance of the disciple’s dharma belong to the disciples’ vehicle. Those discourses which demonstrate the significance of the private buddhas’ dharma belong to the private buddhas vehicle, and those discourses which demonstrate the significance of the bodhisattvas’ dharma belong to the bodhisattvas’ vehicle. . . Now the inquiry into the perspective equal for all the buddhas in the universe (as many as are particles of dust) is also the dharma to be received from an excellent spiritual friend. It is thus the complete Great Vehicle and termed the expanded discourses - immeasurable, unlimited, and not part of the disciples’ dharma. Its meaning is very profound, and accordingly all the dharma to be cultivated by the disciples is found minutely included into the path of the Great Vehicle. It is great blessedness and this is what is meant by “in harmony with the discourses.”

Now we should discuss the phrase, “in accord with the discipline.” The holy path of all the three vehicles equally destroys desire, anger and hatred, which is the reason it is identified as discipline. Now the discourses discriminate cause and results, whereas the higher dharma discriminates the characteristics of real events, yet they both destroy the mental and emotional defilements. The Great Vehicle also speaks of the elimination of all evil events, the defilements of desire, anger, and ignorance. The Buddha taught the disciples to purify their own three varieties of action - body, speech, and mind - and called that the discipline. To the bodhisattvas, he taught them to purify their own three varieties of action - even going as far as the accomplishments of Buddha - by grasping and completing the perfection of virtue. Morality itself is to be grasped by the bodhisattvas. By generating the thought of awakening for all beings they are able to obtain the fruit called absolute truth. Thus the Great Vehicle is in accord with the discipline.

Finally, it does not contradict reality. As none of the three vehicles speaks of the contradiction of the twelve parts of dependent origination, neither does the Great Vehicle.

So, one who investigates well this issue realizes that the Great Vehicle is completely in accord with the threefold seal of the dharma. Of course, if one does not well investigate it, then neither the Great Vehicle nor any of the three vehicles is accepted. And one deprecating the Great Vehicle then commits the gravest of faults.

If you now maintain the Great Vehicle to be the word of Mara, and not that of the Buddha, then we must reply that in none of the discourses do we truly find the pronouncement that the Great Vehicle is Mara’s word. So, this objection cannot be trusted. If you believe that to call the Great Vehicle the word of the Buddha is like a worm in the body of the Teacher that still feeds on his corpse, then all of the vehicles feed off the dharma body of the Buddha, not just the Great Vehicle. By just this token, it cannot be the word of Mara since only the Buddha is able to express it.

Bodhisattvas have immeasurable, unlimited, incalculable qualities that reach as far as the very hells. Facing Nirvana directly, they still return to the cycle of birth and death through their sympathy for living beings. Here they remain for an incalculable eon and experience for a very long time heroic suffering. You see, the vehicle of the bodhisattvas, the great beings (mahasattvas), is actually the Great Suffering Vehicle. Their search for the highest fruit is inconceivable. They have left behind all the disciples and private buddhas, surpassing their efforts. Fulfilling all the qualities of enlightement, they transcend the stage of the facile “knowable.”

How is the bodhisattvas’ vehicle the Great Suffering Vehicle? Suppose that a person might take a ship across the ocean. On the high seas, an evil wind arises, making the waves appear like mountains. Other countless calamities like this occur at the same time. All of his companions are anxious and develop an overwhelming fear, but the captain has long experience in handling the sails and has the merit of the ability to overcome difficulties. Transcending his troubles, he seizes the great precious gem in the ocean.

The bodhisattva, the great being, is at rest in the sea of birth and death. He does not trust the troubles that are entertained by going down the evil path on account of listening to a poor spiritual friend. During the first incalculable eon, the bodhisattva cultivates the practices associated with the stage of purity and seeks pure liberation. During the second incalculable eon, the bodhisattva cultivates the practices of pure contemplation. During the third incalculable eon, the bodhisattva cultivates the practices of pure gnosis and overcomes the obscurities of the stage of the facile knowable. Therefore, the bodhisattvas’ vehicle is termed the Suffering Vehicle. Completing all the ten stages, he obtains them certainly and clearly. Because of the completion of all practices, he obtains the highest, complete, perfect awakening. Through his cognition of final gnosis, he accomplishes the great accomplishment.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2011 at 5:19 PM
Title: Re: Defining Buddhism - Theravada/Mahayana/Varayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
In Zen (no matter which version) they teach that there is a transmission lineage coming from Shakyamuni and even beyond that from the previous buddhas up to the current generation of so called Zen patriarchs. This concept of transmission is especially cherished in the West as something central to Zen. Its importance is clearer if we understand that what is transmitted is the buddha-mind, the enlightenment of the buddha, consequently those receiving this transmission are equals of a buddha.

But if we put aside the religious idea and look at it historically it turns out the whole transmission is made up and has no factual basis. While the notion of this special transmission has a meaning in the context of Zen it is at the same time a device used by monks of the past to gain authority and prestige. Those who firmly believe in the importance of a "Zen Master" (with capitals) might find these scholarly things insulting and offensive towards Zen (although it seems to me that those scholars who research Zen's history do that not because it is such a good business but because they are interested in it, might as well be followers of the religion).

The situation with other schools is similar. There is an internal, mythological legend of the history of Buddhism and there is an external, scientific version. It is noteworthy that neither the internal nor the external view are finished or stable. An important difference in the two versions is in their purpose as one takes religious preferences while the other takes scientific ones. Thus one should see things for what they are and understand the different categories of views and statements. This is not a bad practice for being free from attachments to concepts that - as we can see from this very thread too - can cause emotional disturbances.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2011 at 1:11 AM
Title: Re: Defining Buddhism - Theravada/Mahayana/Varayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm not talking about returning to any original Buddhism but only the perceptible historical evolution of texts and traditions within Buddhism. What is tradition today was heresy a thousand years ago. So in a sense it is possible to approximately outline the teachings that are most probably taught by the Buddha and the early community.

As for the returning to the original teachings of Buddha, that's been used a couple of times as an argument, just think of the Sautrantikas, or when Mahayana followers say that Nagarjuna showed the truth against the false ideas of "abhidharmikas".


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2011 at 12:53 AM
Title: Re: Defining Buddhism - Theravada/Mahayana/Varayana
Content:
mr. gordo said:
I mean, "the Buddha" has a religion named and after him called "Buddhism" where we have statements of his defining what his positions are.  But hey, forget that, let's just take what we like, and discard what we don't, but still have the arrogance to call it Buddhism.

Yeshe D. said:
Interesting in that this is precisely what the Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna have done.

All the best,

Geoff

Astus wrote:
Wow.

Jikan, if we take the Mahayana arguments for the authenticity of its teachings, well, that already shows how even in India they were very well aware of the fact that the Mahayana texts were not part of the canon then.

History was not invented by Europeans. Both in China and Tibet scholars tried to get the original texts, the correct translations and the real teachings while at the same time attacked texts that seemed dubious and forged. It is not "Buddhist Protestantism" to say that in any Buddhist canon there are layers of texts from different eras but an easily understandable fact. All the attempts in Mahayana and Vajrayana teachings to prove their authenticity superiority above the other shows very well how they came later and fought for becoming accepted. But you don't find in the agamas/nikayas a debate whether the seven factors of enlightenment or the four rddhis are better as it would have been quite ridiculous if the Buddha had argued with his own teachings.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2011 at 12:37 AM
Title: Re: "Free Belief Buddhism"
Content:
Jikan said:
Some of the questions that came up for me while reading this:

Are "the once-human Buddhas and Bodhisattvas" usually presented as "the decisive agents of salvation" in Zen generally and the Taego school in particular?

If so, and also assuming that Batchelor's position is as the author describes it, does an atheistic attitude on the part of a student negate or preclude or make impossible the beneficent activities of the bodhisattvas in their lives?  That is:  do you need to believe in the Vows of the Cry Regarder in order to be helped in any way by her, or do bodhisattvas just meet beings where they are and help where they can regardless of their adherence or doctrine?

Astus wrote:
Buddhas and bodhisattvas are not decisive agents in so far as their relevance for Zen stands only in the form of teachers, guides, examples, etc.
Ear Bodhisattva (Avalokita) is there for those who call her/him - so there is a prerequisit for knowledge and faith. As for the nature of help she/he can provide is limited to the capacity of the person being helped.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2011 at 11:47 PM
Title: Re: There is a problem with Buddhism after all ....
Content:
Astus wrote:
Good point. This is what the great master Honen (法然), founder of the first independent Pure Land school (jodoshu 浄土宗), realised after he had gone through decades of monastic training. There is the path of the saints (shodomon 聖道門) and there is the Pure Land way (jodomon 浄土門). The saints' teachings include the whole of Buddhism working with self-power (jiriki 自力), i.e. one's own efforts,  except the Pure Land teaching that works with other-power (tariki 他力), which is through the power of Amita Buddha's past vows (hongan 本願). The Pure Land path is the accessible way of enlightenment for ordinary beings (bonpu 凡夫) through which one can gain birth (ojo 往生) into the land of peace and bliss (anraku 安楽), a.k.a. Sukhavati. And as for the way itself, it's simply using buddha-remembrance, in the form of reciting the name (shomyonenbutsu 称名念仏) as Namo Amita Buddha (namuamidabutsu 南無阿弥陀仏), and nothing else (senjunenbutsu 専修念仏).

That is a summary of the basic idea of Honen which was used by Shinran to say that the Pure Land path is the final teaching that Shakyamuni wanted to teach. That's because it is the easy path for everyone to liberation, even those whose view are veiled by heavy karma.

Nevertheless, there might be another option. Looking at teachings from the Zen, Mahamudra and Dzogchen traditions we find instructions given to ordinary people who could attain liberation. In fact, it is quite a central legend of Zen as we find it in the story of the 6th ancestor Caoxi Huineng. Gampopa taught without restriction his one sufficient path and Padmasambhava liberated many from all walks of life with a single pointing out instruction. Sure, it is true that in all three schools there were masters who spent decades in retreat and such, but they all supposed to have the means for common people. In the book Treasures from Juniper Ridge there is a very fitting terma on this, translated as Instruction for Women on Attaining Enlightenment Without Abandoning Daily Activities. But as it's happened with every teaching, religious history makes the ordinary in the present holy in the past. Once the bodhisattva was contrasted to the arhat in terms of not being worried about the outer discipline but the inner realisation, so it has happened with Zen and Vajrayana contrasted to the general Mahayana. Obviously, after a thousand years Zen and Tantra are the mainstream, like once "hinayana" was, while the alternatives, a new wave, might be hidden now. Or not.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2011 at 6:48 AM
Title: Re: Are plants sentient?
Content:
JeffC said:
How do you know?

What is the difference between a Jellyfish and a Venus Fly Trap?  Neither have brains.  Both have survival instinct.

Astus wrote:
I've referred simply to the Buddhist point of view. Others may have different concepts.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2011 at 3:32 AM
Title: Re: Are plants sentient?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Plants are non-sentient from a Buddhist point of view as they have no mind-stream, unlike animals, humans, spirits, etc.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2011 at 2:17 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood and Sexy Women
Content:
Astus wrote:
"It depends on the context."


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2011 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood and Sexy Women
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think Individual has a valid point with quoting the Alagaddupama Sutta. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_hindrances are not restricted to vows but they're valid for every being, so sensual desire is an obstruction no matter whether it's a lay or a monastic practitioner. Well, that is the "sravaka view" at least. Padmasambhava adds (in http://www.tibetanclassics.org/pdfs/GarlandofViews.pdf PDF) for the bodhisattva vehicle: "So if it is sustained by great compassion, regardless of whatever acts one might engage in, be it virtuous or non-virtuous, one’s vows will not degenerate. For the bodhisattva vow is, in brief, to act with taking great compassion as its ground." Finally, on the ultimate Buddha vehicle (identified with Dzogchen in the Padmasambhava text) even engaging in the five sensual desires causes no problem.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2011 at 1:20 AM
Title: Re: Modern Day Pure Land Masters
Content:
mr. gordo said:
Hi Astus,

I think I used a different spelling in my first post, but yes, I have that book and liked it.  He was definitely an amazing teacher and practitioner.


Astus wrote:
Yinguang (印光) and Guangqin (廣欽) are two different teachers, not the same age and not exactly the same type of background and teaching. The teachings of Yinguang in English are in the book "Pure-Land Zen, Zen Pure-Land: Letters from patriarch Yin Kuang". Yinguang is more of the faith and other-power approach, Guangqin is more of meditation and self-power.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, January 2nd, 2011 at 9:07 PM
Title: Re: Modern Day Pure Land Masters
Content:
Astus wrote:
The Old Venerable Guangqin (Guang Qin Lao He Shang - 廣欽老和尚, 1892-1986) was an illiterate monk who spent many years in retreat and taught in the fashion of "Chan - Pure Land" as common in China.

A selection of his teachings are available in English: https://vajrasword.blogspot.com/p/analects-of-master-kuang-chin.html

Here's the famous photo of his funeral, the light generally understood to be a special sign:


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2010 at 7:39 PM
Title: Re: The mind without objects
Content:
Astus wrote:
Talking of mind as a thing in itself is what reification means, conceiving it as independent. For convential speech that is fine, that's what being not analysed means. But if we want to know what mind is we find that there are simply instances of mental perception, thus on the first level we arrive at the teaching of mental dharmas. Analysing further even dharmas are found to be without inherent essence, without arising and disappearing, i.e. empty. To say there's a continuum of mental events is good as far as it is clear that calling it a "continuum" is simply a concept and that there's nothing actually eternal, just like in the case of matter, etc.

The http://www.stephenbatchelor.org/verses2.htm deals with perception and forms of consciousnesses in chapter 3. The concept of prior existence is discussed in chapter 9.

"It would be better for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person to hold to the body composed of the four great elements, rather than the mind, as the self. Why is that? Because this body composed of the four great elements is seen standing for a year, two years, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred years or more. But what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another."
( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.061.than.html )


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2010 at 7:27 AM
Title: Re: The mind without objects
Content:
Astus wrote:
Mind in Buddhism is defined by its object, so there are six consciousnesses: eye-, ear-, nose-, tongue-, body- and mind-consciousness. Yogacara added to this two, and in some versions three other consciousnesses but these I'd rather call possible extras and this categorisation is not in all Buddhist schools. Nevertheless, all kinds of consciousnesses are empty, without inherent existence and dependently arisen.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2010 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Geoff,

Can you think of a treatise that is easily obtainable - afaik Siksasamuccaya wasn't reprinted and is impossible to buy - and readable? I mean, the Bodhicaryavatara is good but too terse, not really explaining things.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2010 at 10:20 PM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Huifeng,

You talk about a complete course in the MPPU but that may not be necessary. A single introductory book (eg. Yinshun's Way to Buddhahood, Shengyan's Orthodox Chinese Buddhism, Gampopa's Jewel Ornament of Liberation) should suffice to provide enough basis for approaching more complicated teachings. But so far Buddhist communities rarely provide the necessary fundamentals, like in the form of Sunday schools. However, this is a discussion rather for the Western Buddhism part than sutra analysis.

What could be looked into here is catmoon's question about what to do with teachings one can't put anywhere. That's one thing. Another thing is the nature of reactions and what difference it makes if this text is from a sutra, from a Zen teacher, from a tantra or somewhere else. Many have read the Vimalakirti sutra and the relevant part hasn't been raised as far as I can recall as a controviersial teaching here or on other forums (where I've been). Calling it a teaching for beginner bodhisattvas might have added to the edge of it. But then, no problems with Zen teachings about directly getting at buddha-mind. How strange!


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2010 at 6:45 PM
Title: Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
[quote='"Huifeng"]It has been stated by several knowledgeable western Buddhist leaders, however, that while the high end practices bring types of insight, they feel that Buddhism needs to be supplemented. Usually the supplement is something along the lines of psychotherapy, or maybe integral theory, or whatever.[/quote]

It is the phenomenon that when a teaching shows gaps - i.e. lacks relevant answers to questions of its followers - those empty places will be inevitably filled up in one way or the other. That's how local spirits and gods could become part of Buddhism, while with the many bodhisattvas, dharmapalas, etc. the role of gods could have been taken over by Buddhist (or "Buddhicised") deities. For long there wasn't really any Buddhist form of magic (pre-modern science) but then with tantra it was resolved. Sanitised Buddhism sounds good for those think only of its immediate acceptiblity into a view full of preconceptions, while in fact Buddhism should be able to answer not only the needs of educated people with stress problems but also those spiritual seekers who are looking for the meaning of life. Until that happens there's little chance for Buddhism to have a large number of followers from all walks of life and traditional/local beliefs (Christiantiy, New Age, Scientism) will fill those seekers' minds.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2010 at 5:40 PM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Four siddhantas (catuh-siddhanta, 四悉檀):

(1 loka-siddhanta) shijiexitan 世界悉檀 Worldly siddhānta. Preaching which accords to the conventional understanding of the world.
(2 prthagjana-siddhanta) gegeweirenxitan 各各爲人悉檀 Siddhānta for each individual. Preaching according to the abilities and levels of understanding of the people listening.
(3 pratipaksa-siddhanta) duizhixitan 對治悉檀 Special application siddhānta. Preaching aimed at destroying strong defilement or evil karma of certain beings.
(4 paramartha-siddhanta) diyiyixitan 第一義悉檀 Siddhānta of supreme truth. Preaching of reality as understood by the Buddha himself.

also here (Tiantai): http://www.tientai.net/glossary/4siddhanta.htm
Nagarjuna on the four siddhantas: http://www.drbachinese.org/vbs/publish/319/vbs319p022.htm http://www.drbachinese.org/vbs/publish/320/vbs320p031.htm http://www.drbachinese.org/vbs/publish/321/vbs321p024.htm


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2010 at 9:47 PM
Title: Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Putting aside the historical issues, what does Buddhism have that can attract people to it compared to Christianity and Islam?

I think the approach presented on http://www.justbegood.net/ is noteworthy because it addresses common issues raised about religions. Unlike the majority of Buddhist books published in the West, the teachings of the "vehicle of men and gods" are rarely addressed properly although it is clearly the faith of the majority of Buddhist laity throughout Asia. It sounds very base compared to lofty ideas about "sudden enlightenment" and "rainbow body" but that's why it is the teaching that can make a real difference in the number of people who can feel connected to the Buddhadharma.

Whether it is Christianity, Islam or New Age, they all propagete some sort of heaven that the faithful can obtain. Buddhism can show how those heavens are obtainable for anyone with a more sensible teaching.

What do you think?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2010 at 9:20 PM
Title: Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

Just because a bell-tower, or any other building for that matter, resebles a stupa it doesn't make it related to a stupa. As you may well know, there are different styles of stupa throughout Asia, but it is their function that makes them a Buddhist building. A bell-tower has just a bell in it to warn people, no relics, no religious rites, no concept of enlightenment at all.

Saying "somewhere" and "some older books" are not references. It takes historical and archeological records to establish a theory. Does the Kalachakra tradition say anything about the Roman empire? If so, where?

You may think as you please, just don't expect me to take it seriously when it lacks proper foundation in reliable sources.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2010 at 4:46 AM
Title: Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirt,

Kalmyks are Mongols (in a broader sense), so it is not the case that Buddhism spread to the West but Asians moved and brought their religion with themselves. On the other hand, when Mongols and Tatars, aka the Golden Horde ruled over a large part of Eastern Europe for about 250 years they haven't converted them to Buddhism but Christianity just lived on.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2010 at 4:32 AM
Title: Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

Sepultura means burial in Latin, it is "sepulcrum" that means grave, related to the English sepulchre, all from the root "sepelire", i.e. to bury. Clocher-tour simply means a stand alone bell-tower (The page itself defines it as: "un clocher en forme de tour qui n'est pas rattaché au corps principal d'une église" - a bell-tower in the form of a tower that is not attached to the main body of a church) and I don't see how that could be related any way to stupas.

As for Shakyamuni teaching a king to establish a republic, well, sounds strange in itself, as far as republics are not kingdoms. There was a Roman Kingdom until 503 b.c.e. that was then changed into a republic. Even if Gautama lived around that time - which by the latest researches is at least questionable - I don't see how he ended up on the Apennine Peninsula and where that is recorded.

Finally, on the word pagan please read this easily accessible and always useful http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=pagan.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2010 at 2:11 AM
Title: Re: The real truth behind Zen masters' self-mutilation?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I really recommend the book I've already mentioned on this subject: Burning for the Buddha: Self-Immolation in Chinese Buddhism by James A. Benn. It gets into the details very well. By the way, self-mutilation is in authentic Mahayana sutras, not to mention well known Jataka stories.

The Lotus Sutra (ch. 23) says, "If there is anyone who sets forth and wishes to attain highest, complete enlightenment, he should pay homage to the stupas of the Buddha by burning either a finger or a toe. He is superior to those who pay homage by giving their countries and cities, their wives and children, or the mountains, forests, rivers, ponds, and many other rare treasures."


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2010 at 1:53 AM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
catmoon said:
This teaching is causing me considerable difficulty. Perhaps I should just ignore it completely?

Astus wrote:
There are different teachings exactly because some are easy for one but difficult for the other. If it is confusing there are two options. Either you try to figure it out on your own or asking people, or you just put it aside. It's really up to you.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2010 at 6:51 PM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thank you Master Huifeng for posting it. These kinds of instructions are good examples for the presence of seemingly newer styles of teachings, like Zen, within fundamental Mahayana texts. As for the question of "beginnerness", these teachings fit into the category of meditation practice, so there's a direct connection with the method of observing the three states of dharmas and insight into the three gates of liberation. It also rhymes with the Tibetan teaching on having the view of a buddha (emptiness), practice of a bodhisattva (compassion) and conduct of a sravaka (morality).

Here's one from a contemporary Zen master (mistress?), http://wakeupandlaugh.wordpress.com/daehaeng-kun-sunim/:

"As the sea and the waves are not separate, enlightenment and deluded thoughts are not two. So don't spend your time trying to figure out which thoughts are deluded and which are not - just let go of everything. When you do this, thoughts of "I," discriminations, and deluded thoughts will naturally disappear. ... Because even deluded thoughts arise from Juingong, entrust everything to Juingong, completely let go of it. When you return defilements and delusions inside, to your fundamental mind, its evolutionary power can shine forth. Lotus flowers bloom in mud, and the Buddha-Dharma blooms in the midst of defilements. I've never said that you shouldn't possess money, fall in love, or be upset when angry. Do all of this as you need to. But it is important to know that all of this is being done by your foundation. Watch and see if you are doing things from attachments to "I" or "mine." If you live harmoniously, knowing that there is nothing that is not yourself, you will be able to take everything in the world as material for your spiritual practice."
(No River to Cross, p. 45-46.)


