﻿Author: Astus
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2010 at 5:42 AM
Title: Re: Should indiviuals be married and be monk?
Content:
Hae Min said:
Clarification: None of the orders in Japan carry the pratimoksha vows anymore.  All priests receive ordination via the bodhisattva precepts, thus no vows of celibacy are taken.

Astus wrote:
They have been taking the bodhisattva precepts only since the 9th century (custom spreading gradually to all schools from Tendai) but marriage was not allowed until the 19th century Meiji reform. Just saying that it wasn't the bodhisattva precepts that made Japanese monks non-celibate.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2010 at 8:59 PM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Huifeng said:
There is also the very cool story of Manjusri's past life in the Prajnaparamita Upadesa, which not only gives the same teaching, but also some interesting results of attitudes towards it.

Astus wrote:
Could you paste it here? Or is it only in Chinese?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2010 at 8:03 PM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
In the Vimalakirti Sutra (ch. 8: Path to Buddhahood) we read:

"Mañjuśrī then asked Vimalakīrti, “How should the bodhisattva penetrate the path of buddhahood?” Vimalakīrti said, “If a bodhisattva traverses the unacceptable paths, this is to penetrate the path of buddhahood.” [Mañjuśrī] also asked, “How does the bodhisattva traverse the unacceptable paths?” [Vimalakīrti] answered, “The bodhisattva practices the five [deeds of] interminable [retribution] without becoming distraught. ... He manifests acting out of lust ... He manifests the practicing of flattery and deception ... He manifests acting out of the afflictions ... He manifests becoming old and sick ... if a bodhisattva can traverse the unacceptable paths in this way, this is to penetrate the path of buddhahood ... Therefore, you should understand that all the afflictions constitute the seed of the Tathāgata. It is like not being able to attain the priceless jewelpearl without entering the ocean. Therefore, if one does not enter the great sea of the afflictions, one will not be able to attain the jewel of omniscience."

There's also Linji's saying (ch. 21, reference to Lankavatara Sutra 3.58), "Virtuous monks, by creating the karma of the five heinous crimes, you attain emancipation." And this (ch. 22), "Followers of the Way, don’t take the Buddha to be the ultimate. As I see it, he is just like a privy hole. Both bodhisattvahood and arhatship are cangues and chains that bind one. This is why Mañjuśrī tried to kill Gautama with his sword, and why Aṅgulimāla attempted to slay Śākyamuni with his dagger."

As I see it, these Mahayana teachings take the prajnaparamita as the essential realisation of a bodhisattva. Unlike those teachings where they focus on taming the minds of uneducated people (prthagjana), these are meant for those on the bodhisattva vehicle. I find this aspect of the Dharma to be neglected, so many thinks that Mahayana is without deeper teachings and put aside the studying of the sutras only to read the systematised and summarising treatises. That I take as a natural progress just as it's happened with the agamas put aside for abhidharma, and it gives the proper reason for eventually making direct meditation instructions (Vipassana, Pure Land, Zen, Tantra) the living core of the path, while the sutras, in their times, were such instructions too.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2010 at 5:40 AM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirt,

Is it any help that the Polyglotta site has the Tibetan version too of this sutra?

In the question it mentions a beginner level, which means the 1st bhumi. In the 52 levels classification the bhumis are from 41 to 50. The mentioned non-returner level is the 8th bhumi. Or, if we don't insist on using that system, the sutra simply says that one teaches this at the start which results in establishing one firmly in enlightenment never to fall back again.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2010 at 11:48 PM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
The section quoted is the answer to this question:

妙吉祥言。爲 初地 菩薩。當何所説令云何學。
"Mañjuśrī said: But what kind of instruction will you teach, how will you instruct the bodhisattva in the beginning of his development."

That's why I gave the title that it is for beginner bodhisattvas.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2010 at 5:25 AM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Individual said:
Sounds like a bad discourse.

I rather like the Lotus Sutra -- that anyone who just reads it once is guaranteed rebirth in a Pure Land.

Astus wrote:
"When he said this, five thousand monks, nuns, laymen, and laywomen in the assembly immediately got up from their seats, bowed to the Buddha, and left. What was the reason for this? Because the roots of error among this group had been deeply planted and they were arrogant, thinking they had attained what they had not attained and had realized what they had not realized. Because of such defects they did not stay. And the Bhagavat remained silent and did not stop them."
(Lotus Sutra, ch. 2)


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2010 at 12:39 AM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirt,

I've just tried a quick search on CBETA with the sutra title but found only a summary of the contents of it, no commentary. If you find one, let us know.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, December 23rd, 2010 at 11:47 PM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Individual, after the quoted speech 8 monks died as they were leaving because of disbelief and they were born in hell. The following discourse happened:

"Then Mañjuśrīkumārabhūta addressed the Lord: Lord, did you see the great harm that appeared when these monks had heard this exposition of religion? The Lord said: Do not say that, Mañjuśrī. If these monks had not heard this exposition of religion, they would never have been born in the good places of the universe in a million kalpas, and so, how could they meet and please a Buddha? Now they will, even though they heard this exposition of religion with doubt, be born in the Tuṣita heaven after they have died in the great hell Raurava. Then, in sixty-eight kalpas, they will please ten times hundred thousand milloins of Tathāgatas, and they will by miraculous birth be born as universal kings. And during one kalpa, they will be born as Tathāgatas, Arhats, Perfect Buddhas with the name Vimalaprabha."


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, December 23rd, 2010 at 11:34 PM
Title: Re: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is a canonical sutra indeed!

Full text view can be selected at the top. Here's the https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index.php?page=fulltext&view=fulltext&vid=30. The teacher in the sutra, who also says the quoted text to Manjusri, is a three-year old boy called Ratnadatta. Quite amusing as he lectures both Maudgalyayana, Sariputra and Manjusri too. Almost like an extra chapter from the Vimalakirti Sutra.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, December 23rd, 2010 at 9:07 PM
Title: Training of Beginner Bodhisattvas
Content:
Astus wrote:
An interesting teaching on how a bodhisattva should be trained:

"One should speak like this – do not give up your passion, do not fight your aversion, do not clear away your bewilderment, do not liberate yourself from your body , practise the bad things , do not hold back your views, do not be conscious of the bonds [to the worldly things], grasp for the parts of the personality (skandha), amass the spheres of sense-perception, move about among the fields of sense-perception (āyatana), do not leave the stage of fools, frequent the bad (akuśala), give up the good (kuśala), do not think of the Buddha, do not reflect on religious teachings (dharma), do not give offerings to the congregation of monks, do not take the training (śikṣā) upon yourself, do not seek the peacefulness of existence, do not cross over the river [of existence]. This kind of instructions one should teach and give to the bodhisattva in the beginning of his development. Why? Because this state of the moments of existence (dharma) and nothing else is their [true] state. Foolish people explain things in accordance with moments of existence of arising (utpādadharma) and moments of existence of disappearance (nirodhadharma). But this sphere of all moments of existence (dharmadhātu) distinguishes itself by being beyond thought-constructions, and understanding the essential character of all these moments of existence in this way is awakening. If he is taught in this way and does not become afraid, scared or terrified, then he is a bodhisattva not turning back in his development, one who has a part in the stage of never turning back. By means of this instruction one should carry on a pleasant conversation at length."

https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index.php?page=fulltext&bid=2&vid=30&entity=30&kid=30&cid=47385


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, December 23rd, 2010 at 8:50 PM
Title: Re: What's the definition of a Buddhist?
Content:
Astus wrote:
An interesting point from http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3025&Itemid=0 by Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse:

"So, what makes you a Buddhist? You may not have been born in a Buddhist country or to a Buddhist family, you may not wear robes or shave your head, you may eat meat and idolize Eminem and Paris Hilton. That doesn’t mean you cannot be a Buddhist. In order to be a Buddhist, you must accept that all compounded phenomena are impermanent, all emotions are pain, all things have no inherent existence, and enlightenment is beyond concepts.

It’s not necessary to be constantly and endlessly mindful of these four truths. But they must reside in your mind. You don’t walk around persistently remembering your own name, but when someone asks your name, you remember it instantly. There is no doubt. Anyone who accepts these four seals, even independently of Buddha’s teachings, even never having heard the name Shakyamuni Buddha, can be considered to be on the same path as he."


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2010 at 8:54 PM
Title: Re: Dharma Transmission Verses of the 42 Hands and Eyes
Content:
Astus wrote:
Remm,

I see. So Ven. Xuanhua created an extended version of it. Still, I don't understand why it's kept hidden when many other teachings are available for everyone.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, December 16th, 2010 at 7:35 PM
Title: Re: Dharma Transmission Verses of the 42 Hands and Eyes
Content:
Astus wrote:
How fascinating. I wonder on what basis does the CTTB claim this to be restricted to them. Or is it just the translation they worry about but not the Chinese and other translations?


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2010 at 9:54 PM
Title: Re: Is Buddhist art needed to spread Dharma in the west?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Some examples for Western Buddhist art:

http://www.boeddhistischeomroep.nl/generalinfo.aspx?lIntEntityId=136

http://gonkargyatso.com/

http://www.tashinorbu.be/index.htm

http://sutozsolt.egologo.transindex.ro/

http://www.johndaidoloori.org/

http://www.narthaki.com/info/intervw/intrvw40.html

http://artsites.ucsc.edu/faculty/lieberman/zen.html#Zen%20Contemporary

http://www.france24.com/en/20100318-buddhist-founder-siddhartha-inspires-paris-opera-ballet

https://fwbo-news.blogspot.com/2008/06/major-exhibition-of-western-buddhist.html


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2010 at 6:04 AM
Title: Re: Is Buddhist art needed to spread Dharma in the west?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Luke, have you missed the last 6 decades in Western art? From the Beat generation on Buddhism spread quite well. Sure, it's not mainstream but it's there.

Did you know that Richard Wagner planned an opera in 1856 with the title http://www.myspace.com/wagneroperas/blog/249165398 based on Buddhist stories? And that Hermann Hesse published his novel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhartha_%28novel%29 in 1922?

And there's also Lisa in The Simpsons as a Buddhist for all to see.

if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2010 at 12:36 AM
Title: Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

We know of Jews and Christians in ancient India and China and these are not some hidden obscure ideas but open facts. Yes, it is known that there were trade routes between India and the Roman Empire. But can you show any Buddhist monastery or at least a community in Europe before the 19th century? Although Europeans heard about Buddhism through Christian missionaries and travellers as early as the 16th century, it doesn't mean they turned to that religion. Until you can come up with some ancient Latin sutra translation or the ruins of a stupa I see no reason to assume Buddhism was any way present as a religion practised in Europe.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, December 11th, 2010 at 7:32 AM
Title: Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

Excuse me, but where do you get these ideas from?

What connection do you see between Afghanistan and Europe? Yes, Alexander the Great conquered the land and left some Greek settlements around, then many others came and conquered it too. It doesn't mean that there was great cultural exchange between that land and Europe, especially considering that the Roman Empire was cut off from it by the Parthian Empire, then the Sassanid Empire after which the whole place turned to Islamic land with what the Christian Europe hadn't had much friendly relations.

It is not exactly true that everyone uses the Roman calendar, by which you could at best mean the Julian calendar what was changed in the Western part of Europe to the Gregorian calendar from 1582 on. The Roman Empire was not at all a secular society as you've perhaps heard of the Imperial Cult.  They had not unified any castes but built an empire on slave labour and there were different classes of society. Finding connection between Jupiter and Pasupati is not really proper as one is a sky and weather god like Indra while the other one an animal god like Faunus, Jupiter is related to Dyaus Pita etymologically and functionally in the Vedic religion just as it is to Zeus. What you define as a modern city is not really clear, but on one hand the Romans used knowledge from other cultures like the Greek, also there were other quite developed lands throughout the world, like in Han Dynasty China; and in the same era the Gupta Empire is another example of a great civilization.

This conspiracy against Buddhism, well, can't say much of that. You know, even Freemasons and Jehova's Witnesses had to wear different badges in concentrations camps, but no badge for Buddhists (could have been of orange colour). Guess what, Nazis and Fascists were quite interested in Buddhist things. Would you say then that other evil Western forces worked against the poor Buddha followers?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, December 11th, 2010 at 5:24 AM
Title: Re: Sakya Trizin talking about the unity of Buddhist views
Content:
Astus wrote:
Indeed, as Pero pointed it out, it seems he meant the unity of Tibetan Buddhist Schools, especially the oneness of Madhyamaka, Dzogchen and Mahamudra, which has been stated long before by former Tibetan masters, like the 3rd Karmapa in his Aspiration Prayer:

"Free from mental fabrication, it is the great seal, mahamudra.
Free from extremes, it is the great middle way, madhyamika.
The consummation of everything, it is also called the great perfection, dzogchen.
May there be confidence that by understanding one,
the essential meaning of all is realised."

Interestingly, it was Sakya Pandita who criticised Dzogchen and (Gampopa's) Mahamudra, also separating Madhyamaka meditation from Mantrayana. Like here:

Even if they meditate the Great Seal,
they cultivate in meditation only a restriction of conceptual thought,
while they do not understand the Great Seal to be Gnosis
derived from the two processes.

The Great Seal meditation of the ignorant, it is taught,
usually becomes a cause of animal birth.
If not that, then they are born in the realm lacking even fine matter (arupadhatu),
or else they fall into the Disciples1 cessation.

Even if that meditation may be excellent,
it is no more than a Madhyamaka meditation.
The latter meditation, while very good in itself,
is nevertheless extremely difficult to accomplish.

As long as the two accumulations
have not been brought to completion,
that meditation will not be perfected.
To complete the two accomplishments for this,
it is taught that "innumerable aeons" are needed.

Our own Great Seal
consists of Gnosis risen from initiation
and the self-sprung Gnosis that ensues
from the meditations of the two processes.

Its realization will be attained in this very life
if one is skilled in the techniques of Mantra.
Besides this, the Buddha did not teach
the realization of the Great Seal otherwise.

Thus if one is interested in the Great Seal,
one should practice in accord with Mantra Vehicle texts. No substantial difference exists between
the present-day Great Seal and the Great Perfection (rDzogs-chen)
of the Chinese tradition, other than a change
in names from "descent from above"
and "ascent from below" to "Simultaneist" and "Gradualist." The appearance of this kind of religious tradition
came about just as the Bodhisattva Santaraksita
foretold to King Trisong Deutsan.

Listen, as I shall explain that prophecy. He said,
"O king, no Indian non-Buddhist doctrine will appear here
in your kingdom of Tibet because
master Padmasambhava has entrusted it
into the protection of the twelve protecting goddesses.

Nevertheless, a schism into two systems of doctrine
will occur because of certain interrelated circumstances and omens.

At first, after I myself have passed away,
a Chinese monk will appear and teach a path
of simultaneous enlightenment
called the White Self-Sufficient Remedy.

At that time, invite my disciple,
the great scholar Kamalasila, from India.
He will refute that.

Then let all the faithful
practice according to this system of doctrine."
Later, everything came to pass just as he had predicted.

After the Chinese tradition was suppressed,
that of the gradualists was made to flourish.
Still later, the royal rule itself vanished,
and some, who based themselves solely
on texts of the Chinese master's tradition,
changed the name of his system secretly
to Great Seal (mahamudra). The present-day Great Seal
is virtually [the same as] the Chinese religious system.

The Great Seal that Naro and Maitripa espoused
is held to consist precisely
of the seals of Action, Dharma, and Pledge,
and of the Great Seal as expounded
in tantras of the Mantra system.

In his Caturmudra, Exalted Nagarjuna himself also asserts this:
"If, through not having known the Action seal,
one is also ignorant of the seal of Dharma,
it is impossible that one might understand
even the name of the Great Seal."

King-of-tantra texts and major commentarial treatises also prohibit
the Great Seal to one who is unconnected with initiation.

If one realizes the Great Seal that is Gnosis
risen from initiation, only then does
one no longer depend on all signful efforts.

A Clear Differentiation of the Three Codes, p. 117-119


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2010 at 1:33 AM
Title: Re: Zen meditation and pain
Content:
Astus wrote:
These kinds of news are good only for advertising Zen a bit but nothing else. 13 unknown people compared to 13 other unknown people and it happens that some of one group manage pain better than others. Very informative. We don't even know which Zen they were practising and how.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2010 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: Kaliyuga
Content:
Astus wrote:
As a side note, the age of Dharma decline should not be confused with the social and samsaric periods. Buddhas may appear in different periods of social ups and downs and the Dharma may be absent even in golden ages.

Also, here's a fascinating TED talk about our dark age: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, December 7th, 2010 at 12:39 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Transmission Verses of the 42 Hands and Eyes
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ben,

I'm no expert on this so don't expect much from me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajrabodhi and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amoghavajra are the two famous masters who propagated mantrayana in China, both in the 8th century, and they've translated lot of works. One of the texts associated with the 42 hands and eyes practice (T1064) are by Amoghavarja for instance. The https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%AF%86%E6%95%99#.E4.B8.AD.E5.9B.BD.E3.81.AE.E5.AF.86.E6.95.99 says, if that's reliable, that as early as the Southern and Northern Dynasties (420-589) there were translations of esoteric texts and later masters like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subhakarasimha and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_Xing were well known teachers (and performers) of it.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, December 6th, 2010 at 7:27 PM
Title: Re: Dharma Transmission Verses of the 42 Hands and Eyes
Content:
Astus wrote:
This page gives the pictures of the different mudras plus the relevant info:

http://www.vuonlam.us/01_NAM2009/03_PhatGiao/A2_TaiLieu/3A2a_KinhLuatLuan/01_KINH/QuanAm42ThuNhan_01/PhapMonQuanAm_42ThuNhan.htm " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ben,

There's a whole Esoteric Teachings Section (密教部) in the Taisho canon (volumes 18-21, texts 848-1420). Outside of the Japanese Shingon school there's no separate lineage for tantra but it's simply a part of general Buddhism. No initiations or anything like that.

Here's a list of Guanyin related mantras with some audio files: http://www.siddham.org/yuan1/main_guanyin.html " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, December 3rd, 2010 at 8:16 AM
Title: Re: How do monks put up with celibacy?
Content:
TMingyur said:
Meditation is not necessarily a "complicated and difficult practice". However what is complicated in the context of housholders is Vajrayana.

Astus wrote:
But why bother if one can simply stick to buddha-remembrance and thus be assured of liberation in the next life?

By the way, Zen is neither complicated nor difficult whatever life one may live.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, December 2nd, 2010 at 8:49 PM
Title: Re: How do monks put up with celibacy?
Content:
kirtu said:
Right but strong samadhi suppresses desire at least for a time.

Astus wrote:
This could also be said about satisfying a desire, after eating one is not hungry for a while. On the other hand, one could as well be attached to different meditative states, so there's birth in the form and formless realms attained by Buddhists as well as non-Buddhists.

And as I've said in my last post, if the case is as many of you have agreed upon, there's no point in lay people engaging in so many complicated and difficult practices unless they become like hermits. So either one is fine with working on accumulating good karma for a better birth or becomes a renunciate. Third option being only aspiring for birth in the Pure Land. This view makes most of current Western Buddhism pointless and mistaken and also cries for establishing a widespread monastic order.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, December 2nd, 2010 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: How do monks put up with celibacy?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Just to add a bit to the discussion on lay style, I've been browsing through the PP8K and stumbled upon a section about the signs of an irreversible bodhisattva living a household life (XVII.3). As it is not surprising, the PP25K has a similar section which the Abhisamayalankara summarises in three points (IV 8, 2, 6-8.) (Chinese from Ven. Fazun's 法尊法師 translation):

巧便行諸欲　- skilful use of all desirables (Conze: circumspect in the use of pleasant things (which he possesses and enjoys without caring for them, without eagerness or attachment).)
常修淨梵行　- always cultivating pure chastity (Conze: at all times (in all his lives) he leads a chaste life,)
善清淨正命 - good and pure in correct livelihood (Conze: he is pure in the manner of earning his livelihood, (and provides for it in the right way).)

The relevant line is the second one about brahmacarya, i.e. celibacy. However, it's interesting to note that PP8K doesn't mention this part only that "an irreversible Bodhisattva who lives the life of a householder, possesses any pleasant things he may have simply without caring for them, without eagerness, without attachment. He is not one of those people who care for dear and pleasant forms." (tr. Conze)

Another thing to note is that in the Abhisamayalankara's divisions this is about the 1st bhumi while the Avatamsaka Sutra says about 2nd bhumi bodhisattvas: "They are satisfied with their own spouses and do not desire the spouses of others." (tr. Cleary) Nevertheless, the Avatamsaka Sutra has ample paragraphs talking about relinquishing the householder life and leaving behind all forms of desire. So the sutra says,

"They have no attachment to anything, but just firmly uphold pure conduct, thinking, 'As I maintain pure discipline, I shall surely get rid of all bondage, the torment of craving, oppression, slander, and disturbance, and will attain the impartial truth praised by the Buddhas.' ... Therefore they do not conceive even a single thought of lust; their minds are as pure as Buddha. The only exception is in terms of expedient means to teach and transform sentient beings — yet they still do not relinquish the determination for omniscience. ... After enlightening beings have gotten to see the Buddha, they never arouse a single thought of desire, much less act upon desire."

This single exception explains my former reference to another part in this sutra about a teacher who uses different forms of desires to help beings become free from desire.

Then it is clear from all of this that renunciation is a prerequisite of getting to higher levels of practice meaning that the only safe and sure way for a householder is aspiring for birth in the Pure Land. In the PP8K (X.9, tr. Conze) the Buddha says,

"And when I had surveyed their thought with my thought, I rejoiced in those sons and daughters of good family who belong to the vehicle of the Bodhisattvas and who had made this vow. In consequence they will become so much confirmed in their faith that they will seek rebirth in other Buddha-fields, and also they will come face to face with the Tathagatas there, who demonstrate dharma, and from whom they will hear in detail just this deep perfection of wisdom. In those Buddha-fields also they will set countless living beings going on their way to the supreme enlightenment, and will help them in their quest for full enlightenment."


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, December 1st, 2010 at 5:48 PM
Title: Re: How do monks put up with celibacy?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it should be pointed out here that although people attain different levels of samadhi it doesn't mean they're free from desire. A good meditation retreat (Buddhist or not) can be like a week on holiday but then back to everyday life. Even on the initial levels of realisation one is not free from lust. Then there's the sravaka style view that one have to get rid of all to be liberated, then there's no more desire. And there's the mahayana path where one has to attain no-birth and then desire is not a hindrance any more, one doesn't take it up or put it down.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, November 28th, 2010 at 7:06 AM
Title: Re: How do monks put up with celibacy?
Content:
Tilopa said:
Mahasiddhas like Guru Rinpoche are very special beings who have already achieved a high level of realization before taking a consort and we shouldn't mistakenly think their practice is in any way ordinary sexual intercourse. But we should ask ' how did they become such great yogis' and more importantly 'how can we become like them' and it's not by being sexually active that's for sure. We might not need monastic vows but to develop the levels of meditative concentration and subsequent attainment that will qualify us for higher tantric practice then at some point celibacy will definitely be necessary.

Astus wrote:
It appears to me from the mahasiddha stories that lot of them were ordinary people and not as special as Padmasambhava. In the book "Masters of Mahamudra" we find people from all ways of life, including kings, artists, peasants, craftsmen and renunciates. They all had their own obsessions. On the other hand, these too are about being free from desire. What these stories point out is that emptiness and the realisation of emptiness are all pervasive and not restricted to outer forms, so it is not a necessity to take up a certain way of life. I'd say this is a colourful way of expressing the saying "defilements are bodhi". Also this partially answers the original question about dealing with celibacy and leaving behind sexual desire.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, November 28th, 2010 at 4:53 AM
Title: Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Yeshe,

The problem with the question is that just because a country is mainly Catholic doesn't mean that those who get involved with Buddhism were Catholics themselves. It can very well be that they see Catholicism as something they don't want at all so they have a very secular and materialistic approach which goes better with modern Zen and Theravada. Statistics are unreliable in case of religion and Buddhism in the West. I'd rather measure the presence of a religion in terms of official data, like the number of temples, clergy, annual income, social activities, media presence, etc. However, these kinds of information are not always available and can be hard to obtain.

Another thing is that one should make a difference between a country being historically Catholic or Protestant and the current situation. All EU countries are secular by nature and while for instance according to the Eurobarometer Poll 2005 81% in Portugal believes in God (one of the largest percentage in the EU) same-sex marriage is legal. In Poland the percentage was 80% and in 2007 88.4% were member of the Catholic Church, however, only 41% of the population attended regularly to churches in 2009. (stats from Wiki) Counting Buddhists is a lot more difficult as there are quite a lot of ignorance and misunderstandings about who is a Buddhist. Like, those who go to mass every Sunday are considered Christians but those who do meditation in a centre do not always (quite rarely) think of themselves as Buddhists.

We can discuss the Western phenomena related to Buddhism and we can also ponder on its future. To me personally what is actually interesting are doctrinal matters and their presentation. That's something more concrete and more important than clothes and rituals.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, November 27th, 2010 at 3:21 AM
Title: Re: So, how about "Western" Buddhism?
Content:
Yeshe said:
I also have difficulty with the concept of 'Western Buddhism' - we Europeans have spent most of our history fighting each other and, much as they try to arrange one, I see no prospect of a shared European culture, much less one shared with those across the pond.

Astus wrote:
Indeed a good point. When the concept of "Western" is raised people from America first of all think of the U.S. of A. and maybe the UK, France and Germany, or simply "Europe". But who thought about Estonian, Italian or Polish Buddhism where people speak quite different languages and have distinct cultures? Nevertheless, there are a lot on common about how "Westerners" view things so it is not pointless to talk about a Western Buddhism just as we do about Indian and East-Asian Buddhism.

Another note here is that there are different world views in any Western country and it is not irrelevant to consider if one is from a Roman Catholic or a Protestant country, and other facets of one's personal background about Christianity, Judaism, New Age and Materialism, etc. The whole "Western Buddhism" seems to be restricted to a "typical" modern materialist middle class person with Protestant influence, that is: American or maybe British.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, November 27th, 2010 at 12:59 AM
Title: Re: Differences in Jodo practices
Content:
Jikan said:
I think you have it right there, Tatsuo.

It's a bit dated, but the volume _Traditions in Chinese Meditation_ (ed Gregory) collects some interesting scholarship on this question, particularly on the tension between Ch'an and Pure Land practices early on and how Chih-i resolved that tension doctrinally.  If this is of interest to you.

Astus wrote:
I assume you're referring to David W. Chappell's "From Dispute to Dual Cultivation: Pure Land Responses to Ch'an Critics" in that anthology. Note that the book itself is dated 1986 and probably that essay is even earlier. The whole concept that in the Tang Dynasty there were "Chan" and "Pure Land" sects is left behind by now and there's no reason to think such non-existent entities were fighting each other. See more on this: http://buddhiststudies.berkeley.edu/people/faculty/sharf/documents/Sharf2003.%20TP%20Chan%20and%20Pure%20Land.pdf by Robert Sharf. By the way, Zhiyi lived before the emergence of Chan.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, November 26th, 2010 at 5:41 PM
Title: Re: How evolution relates to dependent origination?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Urgyen,

Here's a summary for you on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology

As for the order of the reemerging of life in the different realms see the temporal part https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology#Vivartakalpa.

Sentient being means a being with a mind-stream. Insentient things have no mind-stream.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, November 25th, 2010 at 11:47 PM
Title: Re: How evolution relates to dependent origination?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Urgyen Chodron,

What I meant was that in Buddhist cosmology at the begining of an era first gods are born and last hell beings. Also, only from a sentient being can become a new sentient being, ie. rebirth.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, November 24th, 2010 at 7:07 AM
Title: Re: How evolution relates to dependent origination?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Buddhism's goal is to liberate beings from suffering. Science's goal is to understand natural phenomena in a systematic way. This difference in attitude separates them and gives distinct meanings to these creations of the mind. Consequently Buddhist cosmology is not the same as scientific cosmology, and there are many other cosmologies. Then if we want to evaluate these cosmologies there's a need for a measurement. From a Buddhist point of view scientific cosmology doesn't help liberating beings, therefore it has little or no value. From a scientific perspective the Buddhist cosmology is a religious fiction and can be used only within certain social sciences but tells little about our physical environment. But suppose we view them from a Christian or a Neoplatonic system they're both incorrect. However, if we're looking for The Real Cosmology, well, I call that naivety.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, November 24th, 2010 at 4:01 AM
Title: Re: How evolution relates to dependent origination?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Well, if you can come up with a consistent application of evolution without contradicting the Buddha's words I might reconsider my views about this subject. But you should note that Mahayana is not based on implementing other philosophies into Buddhism.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, November 24th, 2010 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: How evolution relates to dependent origination?
Content:
Individual said:
1) As psycho-physical processes; the subjective, phenomenological world.
2) Buddhist cosmology; the "macrocosmic level".

I'd relate the above to http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.031.than.html.

For now, my question is: Why is the second doctrine put forth when understanding the first doctrine is sufficient to attain liberation?

Astus wrote:
What I said was that dependent origination is:
1. a universal principle
2. a description of psycho-physical processes

No word about either being subjective or a cosmology in itself.

The cosmological part is an extension of the teaching of dependent origination where other teachings are also involved, especially karma, rebirth and the different realms. Buddhist spatial cosmology means the three worlds and the many realms from the lowest hells up to the immaterial heavens. Temporal cosmology describes the lifespan of beings in the realms and also the time a realm may come to existence, remain and dissolve. This whole cosmology is used both to describe how rebirth works and also applied to the career of noble beings. That's how it is an integral part of Buddhism.

If evolution was used in Buddhism one would have to explain its relation to karma, to the realms and how one can attain liberation in that system. That is, it'd involve a major reorganisation and rewriting of Buddhism, simply because the teachings a co-dependent on each other. There are, of course, parts of cosmology that can be changed without messing up the whole system - here I mean basically how the world is described with its four continents and Meru in the middle. But even that can be left as it is. I say that because the Buddhist cosmology is a religious one, something spiritual, from a different perspective than science uses.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, November 24th, 2010 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: How evolution relates to dependent origination?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dependent origination is on one hand a principle, on the other a description of psycho-physical processes, while Buddhist cosmology applies dependent origination on a macrocosmic level. Evolution is a scientific concept based on different principles and established on different methods. Putting them into a single system is minimum unscientific and irrelevant to Buddhism. Just as there is no need to synthetise Buddhism and Hegelianism, so it's meaningless to bring together evolution and Buddhist cosmology.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 at 5:56 PM
Title: Re: How do monks put up with celibacy?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

In Buddhist cosmology at the beginning of an aeon it is not from cells to humans and definitely not from insentient to sentient but from gods to hell beings and only from sentient to sentient. Beings are born, live and die because of karma and not natural selection. So it is quite opposite to the scientific evolution.

If you want to discuss this further I recommend to open a thread for it.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, November 22nd, 2010 at 8:49 PM
Title: Re: Online Sutras & Shastras
Content:
Astus wrote:
I collect links on this page: http://mahajana.lap.hu. Under "Mahayana Resourses" you find many different collections of sutras and such.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, November 21st, 2010 at 9:30 PM
Title: Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it's funny. No harm done. By the way, there's a Zen story similar to this ( http://www.kwanumzen.com/pzc/newsletter/v08n02-1995-nov.html ).

Chin Ming-Hu was a powerful Chinese defense minister who lived toward the end of the Ming Dynasty. Although much of his life was devoted to military matters he also had a strong interest in Ch'an Buddhism. He would regularly invite Zen Master Hsin-Hueh Ta-Hsing to his place for dharma talks. One day when the Master was about to drink the usual cup of tea at the end of the talk there was suddenly a loud explosion. At the order of Chin a cannon had been fired at his signal to scare the Master. Many people were indeed frightened, but the Master continued to calmly drink his tea as if nothing had happened.

When he had finished his tea, the Master asked Chin, "That sounded like a cannon. Is there something wrong?" "I beg your pardon. I'm sure there is no problem." replied Chin evasively. "Cannon fire is such a routine occurrence in a military encampment that......."

After a while, a second round of tea was served. Just as Chin raised his cup to drink the Master gave a loud shout, creating quite a mess. Chin protested, "Master! Why did you do that?" Master Hsin-Hueh just laughed and said, "What's the matter? Don't you know that shouting is a routine occurrence in a Zen community?" Struck by the Master's calm and dignified manner, Chin offered his apology.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, November 18th, 2010 at 5:18 PM
Title: Re: How do monks put up with celibacy?
Content:
Ogyen said:
Do you have a sutra or reference material handy?  This has sparked my curiosity.

Astus wrote:
Avatamsaka Sutra - Flower Ornament Scripture in Cleary's translation - last chapter, also exists stand alone as the Gandavyuha Sutra.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, November 18th, 2010 at 7:44 AM
Title: Re: How do monks put up with celibacy?
Content:
Huifeng said:
They state pretty much that found in all Buddhist literature of the first 1000 yrs or so:
Sexual activity is an obstruction to rebirth even in the heavens, how much more so is it an obstruction to liberation and / or full awakening.

Astus wrote:
How do you compare that to what the Kosa (vol 2, p. 465) says? Just happened to read this section and thought about your comment.

Huifeng said:
69b-d. There are six gods who taste pleasure; they unite through coupling, an embrace, the touch of hands, a smile, and a look.

The CaturmaharSjakayikas, Trayastrimsas, Yamas, Tusitas, Nirmanaratis and Paranirmitavasavartins are the gods of Kamadhatu. The higher gods are not in Kamadhatu.
The Caturmaharajakayikas and the TrayastrimSas live on the ground; thus they unite by coupling, like humans; but they appease the fire of their desire through the emission of wind, since they do not have any semea The Yamas appease the fire of their desire by embracing, the Tusitas by the touch of hands, the Nirmanaratis by smiling, and the Paranirmitavasavartins by looking at each other. Such is the doctrine of the Prajfiapti.
According to the Vaibhasikas (Vibhasd, TD 27, p. 585b27), these expressions of the Prajnapti, "embracing," "touching of the hands," etc., do not indicate the mode of union—for all the gods couple—but the duration of the act. The more ardent the desire by reason of the more pleasurable object, so much shorter is the duration of the union.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, November 17th, 2010 at 6:33 PM
Title: Re: Kaliyuga
Content:
Astus wrote:
There's an important note at the end of the Wikipedia article on life expectancy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Life_expectancy_vs._life_span. Same article says that life expectancy in the early 20th century was 30-45 which means that our grandparents and greatgrandparents should have never known us.

There's an interesting argument in Tai Situpa's http://www.ncf.net/mahamudra.htm:
But there is another side: if you have faith in the Buddha, if you have faith in the Buddha’s teaching, and if you have faith in the practice of dharma then you don’t have to know anything. If you practice with faith then everything works. You don’t have to know ground, path and fruition. Whether you know it or not, it is there. When you know, nothing new appears, and when you don’t know, nothing is disappearing. So you really don’t have to know, but these days it is important to know. Why? Because this is a degenerating time.

I am not a negative person. I don’t consider myself a pessimistic person. Actually I consider myself having some weakness of optimism [laughter], you know? So maybe my problem is optimism, not pessimism. But the fact of the matter is that this is a degenerating time; so, many things are getting worse, and many things are getting better. But it is those things that make us worse that are getting better, and those things that make us better that are getting worse. In that way, it’s getting better for worse. That’s true, I think.  I could be wrong; I have the right to be wrong (right?), but I think that’s true.

One thing that really proves this to me is that, these days, anything that is sacred and divine needs a lot of explanation, and people don’t believe it, but anything that is not sacred and not divine doesn’t need any explanation, and everybody believes it. For example, many wars are being fought right now, all over the world, and most of the people that are fighting there don’t know why. Only the ones who instigated the wars know, but the other people don’t know. They just believe; so they follow and get themselves killed, or they kill other people and destroy so many things. Then think about making money: it’s good that people make money, but lots of the ways that people make money are really other people’s plans, and other people’s ideas that they just follow. Many people just follow, and sometimes they get lucky, and they make some money, but many people are actually just donating a lot of money to those people who plan those things. They lose money, but they just go on, one loss after another. So in that way, they really don’t need a lot of explanation. Also, with taking drugs, and all these kind of things: even if somebody explains so hard they still don’t believe that person. They can see themselves getting crazy. They see themselves dying, and they see their brain becoming like a scrambled egg: it’s not working anymore, not connected anymore, all separate, you know? One part of the brain doesn’t function with another part; so two and two doesn’t make four anymore Two and two is maybe five or three or six. They see that they are confused, but still they go for it. They don’t need explanation, and they don’t need clarification. Then also with politics: many of the politicians, I think, don’t even know what they are doing. They just believe, and they go for it. Of course all politicians are not bad; many of them are very good. If there was no policy, then of course, the world would be in chaos, but what I am saying is that nothing requires more explanation than dharma. So when it comes to dharma, everybody wants all the detailed explanations. Not only once, but two, three or four times, you know? But everything else doesn’t need explanation, and people just follow. For example, with fashion: today you see a funny hat, which I think is a terrible hat, but tomorrow so many people are buying it and going crazy for it. So that way, everybody believes in things without having to know, except when it comes to something that is sacred and divine. This proves that this is a degenerating time. If it was not a degenerating time it would be the other way around, so that the things that are less meaningful, and even harmful, such as war, should need more explanation. People would find it very difficult to accept and very hard to participate. Something that is divine and profound, like dharma, would be easy for people to follow and easy to believe. If that happens then it shows that it is not a degenerating time but a generating time or a good time. So in this degenerating time, the clear understanding of ground, path and fruition will help us all, and will also equip us to help others. Because, after all, the basis of the mahamudra is Mahayana, and the purpose of mahayana is to help sentient beings. This is the foundation of all the highest teaching of Lord Buddha.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, November 16th, 2010 at 7:11 PM
Title: Re: How do monks put up with celibacy?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Could finally identify the bodhisattva Ven. Seung Sahn might have been talking about. It's teacher 25, called Vasumitra and she liberates people from passion through passion. It is also a recurring teaching there to be in the world without being affected by the world, which is the concept of non-attachment to anything while acting for the welfare of all. Also noteworthy is the large amount of lay and female teachers present in Sudhana's journey.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, November 15th, 2010 at 7:14 PM
Title: Re: How do monks put up with celibacy?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ven. Seung Sahn in his "The Compass of Zen" talks about sex as "not good, not bad" (p. 72). He refers to the 36th teacher of Sudhana in the Avatamsaka Sutra who was a prostitute liberating people through sex. However, I've looked it up in the text but found nothing like that except for general "skilful means" teaching. Any idea what he could be referring to?


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, November 14th, 2010 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: How do monks put up with celibacy?
Content:
from Dahui Zonggao's letter to Hsu Tun-chi, Swampland Flowers p. 33-35 said:
When has it ever been necessary to leave wife and children, quit one's job, chew on vegetable roots, and cause pain to the body? Those of inferior aspiration shun clamor and seek quietude: thense they enter the ghost cave of "dead tree Ch'an" entertaining false ideas that only thus can they awaken to the Path. ... If you can manage not to forget the matter of birth and death while in the midst of the passions of the world, then even though you do not immediately smash the lacquer bucket (of ignorance), nevertheless you will have planted deep the seed-wisdom of transcendental knowledge (prajna). In another lifetime you will appear and save your mental power. You won't fall into evil dispositions: you'll overcome that sinking down into the defilement of passion.
As a gentleman of affairs, your study of the Path differs greatly from mine as a homeleaver. Leavers of home do not serve their parents, and abandon all their relatives for good. With one jug and one bowl, in daily activities according to circumstances, there are not so many enemies to obstruct the Path. With one mind and one intent (homeleavers) just investigate this affair thoroughly. But when a gentleman of affairs opens his eyes and is mindful of what he sees, there is nothing that is not an enemy spirit blocking the Path. If he has wisdom, he makes his meditational effort right there. As Vimalakirti said, "The companions of passion are the progenitors of the Tathagatas: I fear that people will destroy the worldly aspect to seek the real aspect." He also made a comparison: "It's like the high plateau not producing lotus flowers: it is the mud of the low-lying marshlands that produces these flowers."
If you can penetrate through right there ... your power will surpass that of us leavers of home by twentyfold. What's the reason? We leavers of home are on the outside breaking in; gentlemen of affairs are on the inside breaking out. The power of one on the outside breaking in is weak; the power of one on the inside breaking out is string. "Strong" means that what is opposed is heavy, so in overturning it there is power. "Weak" means what is opposed is light, so in overturning it there is little power. Though there is strong and weak in terms of power, what is opposed is the same.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, November 13th, 2010 at 6:51 AM
Title: Re: The Eastern Music Thread!
Content:
Astus wrote:
The essence of Japanese music:

if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Vietnamese pop:

if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Vietnamese rock:

if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Vietnamese hip hop:

if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Burmese hip hop:

if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Indian pop:

if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Indian metal:

if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Did you know that the second song on this list (Vietnamese pop) is originally a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragostea_din_tei?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, November 13th, 2010 at 4:49 AM
Title: Re: Heavy Metal goes tantric
Content:
Astus wrote:
Very nice, I've been looking for a Buddhist metal band for a while now. Are there others like The Firstborn who actually play Buddhist metal?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, November 3rd, 2010 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: Buddhism & Desire
Content:
Astus wrote:
Shinchan,

Your question was raised long before by a certain brahmana:

"If that's so, Master Ananda, then it's an endless path, and not one with an end, for it's impossible that one could abandon desire by means of desire."

Read the whole story: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn51/sn51.015.than.html


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, November 3rd, 2010 at 6:38 PM
Title: Re: Buddhism & Desire
Content:
Astus wrote:
What you talk about as desire is put under "kama-trsna/tanha", ie. sensual desire. There's a study discovering desire in the Pali Canon: The Philosophy of Desire in the Buddhist Pali Canon by David Webster. You might want to take a look at it. There's also a short summary of this topic: http://www.buddhanet.net/4noble12.htm.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, November 3rd, 2010 at 4:35 PM
Title: Re: What is the role of Shakyamuni Buddha in Pure Land?
Content:
Huseng said:
Is there any way to empirically verify such a claim besides dying and seeing if you end up in the Pure Land?

Astus wrote:
Once you reach a higher bodhisattva level you'll have no problem seeing buddha-lands far far away. Or perhaps even on the 1st bhumi you can converse with buddhas. Also, the Pratyutpannasamadhi Sutra gives you a technique to meet Amita Buddha face to face. And maybe you can try phowa too. There's also an attainment called nenbutsu-sanmei which for instance Honen could achieve. So many ways, you just have to chose the one you like.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, November 3rd, 2010 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: Was Shakyamuni Chinese?
Content:
Astus wrote:
What about https://sites.google.com/site/nyugatibuddhizmus/home/bevezets/modern-buddha-brzolsok? Nevertheless, the way we picture buddha is a romantic form and have little to do with "real", though we might call it the real buddha.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, October 30th, 2010 at 11:02 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
"What troubles me is that, living in such a utopia, what motive would anyone have for attaining enlightenment?"

You find it in the sutras, the Pure Land is all about the Dharma, teaching is happening all the time everywhere. Even the wind, blowing through the leaves of the Bodhi-tree, when heard by beings everywhere, gives them insight into the dharmas and they attain the stage of non-regression. Also, even before being born there, the initial motive, shinjin, is for the attainment of buddhahood and not about being born into a heavenly realm.

"Another thing that just doesn't tally is the claim that life in Amida's Pure Land is eternal."

You agree that nirvana is eternal. Buddhas are always "in nirvana" and there's no time limit in buddhahood. A buddha-land is a creation, an extension of a buddha. How couldn't it be eternal? Still, it is not eternal in the sense of constant but that its continuity has no end.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, October 29th, 2010 at 7:41 PM
Title: Re: Buddha-nature
Content:
Astus wrote:
Individual,

You can read Shengyan's book online: http://www.shengyen.org.tw/big5/book/orthodox.pdf (PDF)

Go to the given chapter and read what the six identities stand for.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 28th, 2010 at 4:18 PM
Title: Re: Buddha-nature
Content:
Astus wrote:
In the Tiantai/Tendai system you find the six identities, which is the beings relation to buddha-nature. See, Sheng-yen: Orthodox Chinese Buddhism, p. 100-103.

1. Identity to Buddhahood in Principle
2. Identity to Buddhahood in Name
3. Identity to Buddhahood in Contemplative Practice
4. Identity to Buddhahood in Semblance
5. Identity to Buddhahood in Partial Realization
6. Absolute Identity to Buddhahood


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 25th, 2010 at 5:26 PM
Title: Re: Buddha-nature
Content:
Astus wrote:
It's good to have faith in one's inherent buddha-nature. But that should be for supporting one's motivation on the path and not as an excuse for avoiding the path. Also, there are vague, undifined terms in the OP, which even suggest certain misunderstandings about buddha-nature and other things.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, October 22nd, 2010 at 3:32 PM
Title: Re: What needs to be done to create new Nalandas in the west?
Content:
Huifeng said:
Maybe just learn that dana comes before sila, samadhi and prajna on the path?

Astus wrote:
Are you suggesting that the "Buddhist Law of Attraction" is that "the more you give the more you get"? So, Buddhists should give more money/effort and more teaching which results in more followers who're willing to pay for monasteries. Logical.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, October 22nd, 2010 at 3:21 PM
Title: Re: Zen Centre's in Japan
Content:
Astus wrote:
Shodo Harada's monastery, Sogenji is also a host of international students from all over the world.

http://www.onedropzendo.org/onedrops.php


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 21st, 2010 at 10:50 PM
Title: Re: What needs to be done to create new Nalandas in the west?
Content:
Astus wrote:
It's unlikely that monks and teachers will take the initiative. I'm saying that because from Buddhist history it seems to me that usually it was the laity that started things and the monastic sangha eventually reacted on it. That is understandable as far as it is the monks duty to maintain the tradition, so they're supposed to be the conservative force. There are exceptions of course.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 21st, 2010 at 4:45 PM
Title: Re: What needs to be done to create new Nalandas in the west?
Content:
Astus wrote:
That's assuming that the descendants of immigrants will keep the religion and not decide to be assimilated into the non-religious or Christian local community.

One of my Zen teachers (non-Asian) said that what he regretted about retreats was that there was no opportunity to get to know the others he spent the time with there. So on his retreats there are quite a lot of community programs, discussions, in a not so organised format. It is not a formal retreat at all and hardly about doing a lot of meditation. However, it is not advertised for outsiders, but everyone is welcome.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 21st, 2010 at 3:58 PM
Title: Re: What needs to be done to create new Nalandas in the west?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Good post Huseng!

I think there are things to learn from our Christian brethren we live among. They actually know how to spread a religion and do it quite effectively in countries where Jesus is as foreign as Buddha in the West. And even in a mainly Buddhist country like Thailand (0.8% Christian according to the latest (2000) census) there are four Christian universities of different churches. But unlike with the Christian teaching, Buddhism's core teachings are not propagated, or even described by many teachers. I find that mainly Theravada teachers, like Walpola Rahula and K. Sri Dhammananda, published books with the attempt to sum the teachings up in an easily accessible form for a Western audience. I think that is because when teaching Mahayana (Chinese or Tibetan) it is either simplified into a specific teaching and practice (eg. Zen, Dzogchen, Pure Land, Chod) or it gets very complicated, trying to present the whole thing from Abhidharma to Prasangika Madhyamaka. And even if "general Mahayana" is explained - mainly from the Tibetan tradition - it is taught as something actually inferior to Vajrayana which they don't talk about there. So a primary issue - to actually make Buddhism something consumable by a larger audience - is to develop the appropriate presentation of it accepted by the majority of Western Buddhists and not get lost in the differences and varieties of lineages. Again, such thing was attempted only by Theravadin teachers, like Joseph Goldstein, Ajahn Sujato and Ajahn Amaro.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, October 20th, 2010 at 11:20 PM
Title: Re: What needs to be done to create new Nalandas in the west?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think TMingyur's argument is to the point. If somebody wants to study there are different options present. Even if someone is not rich enough to spend even three months in the mountains doing a retreat, there are teachers in the West and quite a lot of translations both online and offline, plus the teachings given by modern teachers. Also, one can choose to become a monk, and there are no application fees.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, October 20th, 2010 at 5:35 PM
Title: Re: What needs to be done to create new Nalandas in the west?
Content:
Luke said:
Sure, people can study other aspects of modernity if they wish, but I would argue that science is one of the most powerful forces of modernity.  For example, I would say that quantum physics has had a greater impact on people's lives than Cubism or atonal music.

Astus wrote:
Definitely, through science we have now clear tap water (polluted rivers), internet (power plants) and plastic bags. Life has become a lot more convenient, at least for those living in the richer areas of the planet. For others, science gave them job at a factory, machine guns and trucks.

But that is just outer change, change in things we use. In case of Buddhism, I think we better look at the inner parts, the ruling mentality, like consumerism, idolisation of the body, feminism, relationship and family models, physicalism and scientism, new age and neopagan beliefs, etc.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 19th, 2010 at 9:31 PM
Title: Re: What needs to be done to create new Nalandas in the west?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Science proves things which are empirically verifiable"

A very questionable statement, both from a Western philosophical and a Buddhist point of view. But this is not the main issue. Rather it is that science includes no morality, it's rather a technology, a skill, like architecture and shoemaking.

"we hold Buddhist teachings in a higher regard than the teachings of other religions"

Just as it should be done with every other philosophies too, including science.

"If science has clearly proven something, such as gravity, then a modern Buddhist has to accept that."

It is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science#Grounds_of_validity_of_scientific_reasoning what constitutes "clear proof". The closest to that kind of investigation is Buddhist epistemology started by Dignaga and Dharmakirti and studied mainly within Tibetan Buddhism. However, when teachings talk about a mind (karma) created world, the basis for objective observation becomes quite unstable.

"Science has a special status because it is as close as a person who is a materialist can ever get to absolute truth."

Science is not the only way to be materialist. Why is it the best then?

More importantly, why should science be the main/sole representative of modernity? It was not just science that made its impact, or rather, not just the scientific way of investigation, since science itself is quite diverse and in constant change. Modernity includes many other things, like social changes and art movements. And by modernity I simply mean the time after WW2, or perhaps we should count it from the invention of the Internet.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 19th, 2010 at 4:17 PM
Title: Re: The real truth behind Zen masters' self-mutilation?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Those are just stories without historical reliability, just like most of the stories about the early Zen masters.

On the other hand, self-mutilation on some level has been part of Chinese Buddhism for a long time. There's a larger study related to this, Burning for the Buddha: Self-Immolation in Chinese Buddhism by James A. Benn. Also, Paul Williams in his "Mahayana Buddhism: The Doctrinal Foundations" gives a little insight into this Chinese tradition in the chapter on the Lotus Sutra and its influences, with extra info in the notes. He quotes Benn, "self-immolation was a practice that cut across the whole of the samgha in China. From Chan monks, to scholars, to Pure Land believers, all kinds of monks and nuns found valid reasons for offering their bodies".


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 19th, 2010 at 3:44 PM
Title: Re: What needs to be done to create new Nalandas in the west?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"But still, I think the ongoing dialogue between scientists and Buddhists which the Dalai Lama and others have promoted is an important one and is something which should be continued at a world-class Buddhist university. By discontinuing it, I think modern Buddhists would lose more than they would gain."

It's fine to do and continue the dialogue. It's like the dialogue between religions. It's not with the purpose of "integrating Jesus into the Noble Eightfold Path" but just sharing ideas. My main point is that simply using natural science to analyse certain Buddhist phenomena doesn't make Buddhism modern but only the subject of some researchers.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 18th, 2010 at 10:37 PM
Title: Re: What needs to be done to create new Nalandas in the west?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't see how adding natural science to Buddhism could modernise it. It simply complicates things by irrelevant data. Natural science is restricted to the study of the four elements. What use is there of a huge load of information on how the elements work? Other fields, like philosophy, comparative religious studies, history, philology, linguistics and psychology can be used as secondary studies. Still, that is not exactly what would mean modernisation. It should be actually making changes in the Buddhist teachings themselves, creating new forms, new ways of transmitting the Dharma. Just like it's happened throughout history with the introduction of the different Abhidharma texts, Prajnaparamita, Madhyamaka, Yogacara, Pramana, and all the others up to Tiantai, Chan, Vajrayana, Burmese Vipassana, Thai Forest Sangha, etc. And not even a university is needed for that.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 18th, 2010 at 7:01 PM
Title: Re: What needs to be done to create new Nalandas in the west?
Content:
Astus wrote:
To gather all the different traditions and make the university "non-denominational" seems like a huge challenge. Modernisation of Buddhism would require a view beyond sects, and not just small sects but the whole "hinayana-mahayana-vajrayana" concept. Because if that remains it just results in different groups at the university all saying they're the "true and original Buddhism" - not a good environment for anyone who actually wants to study there. Or it can be led by lay scholars, making the academic view the standard and not allowing any sectarian position on the part of the governing body.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 18th, 2010 at 5:37 PM
Title: Re: The Ten Bhumis
Content:
Astus wrote:
Locked as Requested by OP.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, October 15th, 2010 at 4:58 AM
Title: Re: The Origin of "Not Finding"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Huifeng,

Thanks, I'm trying. How do you search like that? Is that Google search for CBETA? Don't you think suttacentral is fine? That's what I use, plus it's online.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 14th, 2010 at 7:56 PM
Title: Re: The Origin of "Not Finding"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Huifeng, thanks for that. Very resourceful. So you just looked up 不可得? Would that be correct for "not finding"? Maybe the Tibetan term could be helpful too. Well, it seems that is the original idea behind the meditation instruction. But is there any meditation advice connected to it, or I should be content with the fact that different sutras describe that there is nothing to be found which is emptiness itself?

For the English translations, here are two.

For the first quote (SA 262, corresponds to http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.090.than.html ) there is a translation http://tipitaka.wikia.com/wiki/SA_262:

Respectfully saluting by joining palms, he said to the venerable Ānanda:
"It is just so! As it is the noble life of wisdom, a good friend teaches the discipline and the dharma.
"Now, I have heard the dharma from the venerable Ānanda thus: All activities are empty, tranquil, not to be grasped at; and the destruction of craving, the fading away of desire, cessation, is nirvāṇa.
"The mind is joyful, one dwells rightly in liberation, and there is no returning, no more seeing self; one sees only the true dharma."

The quote from the Sutra of the Collection of the Original Acts of the Buddha (佛本行集經 - second poem) in my crappy translation:

"Look for it in all directions
But you don't find any dharma.
Because of conditions
The samskaras are born.
Examining yourself
Empty observation meets suchness.
Skandhas enter all the objects
Within and without all is peaceful."


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 14th, 2010 at 5:47 AM
Title: Re: The Origin of "Not Finding"
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm looking specifically for meditation instructions applying the mentioned method and pointing out that not finding anything as the essence of mind, or mind itself is the whole point.

Something similar can be found in this classic Zen story, but even this is not exactly it:

Bodhidharma sat facing the wall. The Second Patriarch stood in the snow. He cut off his arm and presented it to Bodhidharma, crying, "My mind has no peace as yet! I beg you, master, please pacify my mind!" "Bring your mind here and I will pacify it for you," replied Bodhidharma. "I have searched for my mind, and I cannot take hold of it," said the Second Patriarch. "Now your mind is pacified," said Bodhidharma. (Gateless Gate, case 41, tr. by Katsuki Sekida)

Also a passage that comes close to it from the MPPU (chapter on the Mahayana form of smrtyupasthana, mindfulness of mind):

智者雖觀是心生滅相，亦不得實生滅法，不分別垢淨而得心清淨。以是心清淨故，不為客煩惱所染。 (T25n1509_p0204a07-09)
"And although the wise person considers the characteristics of birth (utpāda) and cessation (nirodha) of this mind, he will find no true birth, no true cessation. Not finding any defilement (saṃkleśa) or purification (vyāvadan) in it, he discovers this luminosity of the mind (cittasya prabhāsvara), a luminosity by virtue of which the mind is not defiled by the adventitious passions (na khale āgantukair upakleśair upakliṣyate)." (tr. by Gelongma Karma Migme Chodron of Lamotte's translation, vol. 3, p. 979 / PDF p. 118)

What I'm looking for actually fits the "emptiness of non-perception":

何以故名不可得空？為智力少故不可得？為實無故不可得？　答曰：　諸法實無故不可得，非智力少也。 (T25n1509_p0295c13)
"Why do you assert this emptiness of non-perception? If dharmas are not perceived, is this due to weakness of knowledge (jñānadaurbalya) or because they do not truly exist? 
Answer. – It is because dharmas really do not exist that they are not perceived, and not due to weakness of knowledge." (vol. 4, p. 1762 / PDF p. 358)

However, the 18 emptinesses are used more as theoretical teachings rather than practical ones.

"What is unascertainable emptiness? Those dharmas which are past, future, and present, are not got at. And why? In a past (dharma) the future (dharmas) cannot be got at: nor in a future the past; nor in a present (dharma) can the past and future (dharmas) be got at: nor in the past and future (dharmas) the present ones. The unascertainable emptiness is the non-apprehension of these, because they are pure from the very beginning, on account of their being neither unmoved nor destroyed. For such is their essential nature." (Large PP Sutra, I. 9, 12, §15. PDF p. 184)

"As soon as this present moment appears, at that very moment it will exhaust or cease to exist. The past is gone; the future has not yet come, so they are not entities. This is what we call ‘not apprehended’. But there is no such phenomenon about which you can conclude that it is an unapprehended phenomenon, because ‘unapprehended’ itself is empty. This is ‘emptiness of unapprehended’." (Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche's commentary to Madhyamakavatara 6:216-217 in "Introduction to the Middle Way", PDF p. 334)

It is not exactly like how Thrangu Rinpoche puts it:

"it has been resolved that objects of mind and mind itself are not to be found, and that the not-finding-anything when you look for the mind is not because you have failed to find it; nor is it because the mind exists but is somehow too subtle to be found in that way; nor is it because it is too far away from you, too distant to be seen after all it is your mind. The reason that you do not find anything is that in not finding anything you are finding what the mind is, which is emptiness, and this is a matter of direct experience." (Ocean of Definitive Meaning, p. 75)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, October 13th, 2010 at 11:18 PM
Title: The Origin of "Not Finding"
Content:
Astus wrote:
In Zhiyi's Little Samatha-Vipasyana we find "即當反觀行心，不見相貌。當知行者及行中一切法，畢竟空寂，是名修觀。" which in Ven. Dharmamitra's translation is "One should then immediately turn back the attention and contemplate the mind which is engaged in walking. One then fails to perceive any characteristic appearance associated with it. One should then realize that the one who walks as well as all dharmas involved in walking are both ultimately empty and still. It is this which constitutes the cultivation of [insight] contemplation."

In Tibetan meditation instructions it is a regular theme that one should look for the self/mind and find nothing, and this finding nothing is emptiness. What I'd like to know is the precedents of this kind of instruction. I haven't yet looked up in Nagarjuna's upadesa, perhaps there's something. But any other early quote is appreciated too.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, October 13th, 2010 at 7:44 PM
Title: Re: Interviews with Bhikkhu Nanananda
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nice. It's always been the view of Candrakirti and Tsongkhapa that sravakas realise the same emptiness as bodhisattvas. If they'd add some bodhicitta to it we could actually call it Mahayana.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 12th, 2010 at 9:04 PM
Title: Re: What needs to be done to create new Nalandas in the west?
Content:
Astus wrote:
University with educated monks first of all requires monasteries with monks. But since there are only a handful of operational monasteries in the West it is unlikely that any time in the near future such a university will be established. The original idea of the bhikshu lifestyle is that they should be self-sufficient mendicants. Monasteries receive their funding from the local laity. So the starting point is to have lay Buddhists. Obviously, if there are no Buddhists there can't be monasteries nor monastic universities. The question is then how to spread Buddhism in the West. And I mean active spreading, not just waiting for people to decide that they're Buddhist just because they find HHDL, or TNH charming. And by Buddhist I mean religious people and not those who are simply fond of meditation as a hobby. Then there's a good chance for a real growth in the number of monasteries since people will realise the importance of accumulating merit, etc.

If there are some who want to be educated beyond a basic level there are a couple of options. First one is to go east, become a monk and study. Second is to go to a university, study religion/eastern languages and focus on Buddhist materials. Third is to just start studying.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 11th, 2010 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: Lack of knowledge about world religions in the US
Content:
Astus wrote:
"I guess what I should have said earlier is that the misuse of religion has been one of the most negative forces in history."

That's what I was talking about. Also, it should be reduced mainly to the people involved with Christianity and Islam. And that is not because those religions are specifically more evil than the others. It's just that they have been integrated into the government of nations to the level that no other religion has been so they could become state ideology. Buddhism could reach that level of penetration of a society only in a few countries and not always for a long time. So actually it is a sign of success for those religions that they could become the leading force. And while there are certain bad results from such a high level of acceptance of a doctrine, there are also good things that could be attributed to their influence.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, October 10th, 2010 at 9:32 PM
Title: Re: Lack of knowledge about world religions in the US
Content:
Astus wrote:
Luke,

I'm simply against demonising the concept of religion. Naturally every religion that has grown influential enough for a larger group of people, which is true especially in the case of the three largest religions (Buddhism, Christianity, Islam), wars and other forms of bad things have been part of its history. But it's a different thing to say that religion is the reason for a war or that a religion has been involved in some ways in military conflicts. To blame the conquer of North American natives on Christianity is quite absurd. Isn't it that certain European kingdoms wanted to rule the whole place? Priests were neither military leaders nor government officials to eliminate the local population.

And let me repeat, I'm putting forth here an argument against the preconception that religion is something that creates wars. This is a view, a philosophical idea, and not a historical event. Religion includes all the religions, even the religions of Native Americans. It is not the same as saying there are religious militant groups and terrorists who use a religion as their ideology. Should we conclude that Buddhism causes wars because there were Buddhists warring? Is Buddhism as a religion faulty at slavery because there were Buddhists keeping slaves?


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, October 10th, 2010 at 5:32 PM
Title: Re: Lack of knowledge about world religions in the US
Content:
Astus wrote:
Luke,

The use of Romanus Pontifex to justify slavery is a good example of people using religion to justify their acts. If you read this essay by Fr. Joel S. Panzer, http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/POPSLAVE.htm, you find that even before the said decree slavery has been condemned, just as not long after the colonisation of America, in 1537 Pope Paul III issued an encyclical against the injustice done to the natives in America. It should also be noted that the United States has never been under the rule of the Pope.

Seeing others as non/sub-humans is not a specifically religious but a general human attitude. In fact it is a basic Christian idea that all humans are capable of being saved, thus it was naturally the position of the Roman Catholic Church that the people of foreign lands are humans and can be converted. Nevertheless, this is not even the case of a religion causing war.

From a Buddhist perspective, violence is from greed, hatred and ignorance. Greed for others' possessions, hatred against those we don't know and ignorance about the law of karma. Christianity, as a religion, teaches contentment, love and divine punishment. Same can be said about Islam. So to me it seems to be a more complex issue here than just saying religion causes war.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, October 10th, 2010 at 6:33 AM
Title: Re: The benefits of studying Theravada for Mahayana?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The Tibetan tradition uses primarily the study of abhidharma texts as providing the basis in fundamental teachings, which for them they are the Sarvastivada and Sautrantika teachings. Also, the Nikayas found in the Pali Canon have no exact correspondents in the Tibetan Canon - unlike in the Chinese Canon -, although some parts of it can be found here and there in Tibetan.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, October 10th, 2010 at 4:44 AM
Title: Re: Lack of knowledge about world religions in the US
Content:
Astus wrote:
What I argue against is the concept that religion is behind most of the wars ever happened as the article claimed. But I'm OK with reducing that to a position that religion doesn't cause war except when it is a religion about causing war. I don't see Christianity generally (Roman Catholicism included) as a warring religion. By this I don't deny that just as Christianity has played an important role in European history it was used on several occasions to justify wars. But justifying a war and inducing a war is not the same. And even if I was proved wrong in the case of Christianity - which would require proving that Christianity is essentially a doctrine making people kill each other in wars -  there are still hundreds of other religions both extinct and living.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, October 10th, 2010 at 1:25 AM
Title: Re: Lack of knowledge about world religions in the US
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Are you saying that the Crusades were not a result of any religious motivations?"

It is easy to simplify historic events to single causes. It is also easy to understand how such a thinking is naive and mistaken. Religion - if defined as a set of doctrines accepted by a group of people - is hardly ever the direct cause of violence except if it is explicitly about killing, like in the case of human sacrifices. War is a big enterprise for any country and it takes lot of planning and organising to measure what a nation can profit from such a costly event. Religion in many cases can be a good ideology to justify violent acts. But to say that religion is the cause is confusing things. We'd be a bit closer to the truth to say that it is politics causing violence, since it is politics that actually govern a country and its army. However, politics is a product of many people with different agendas, so blaming "politics" is still quite a deluded opinion.

As for the Crusades, on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades you can read a summary. It says, the initiating cause was the Byzantine Empire's request to the Pope to send soldiers against threatening Turks. And as the circumstances were appropriate the Pope agreed, just like many rulers of European countries.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, October 7th, 2010 at 10:09 PM
Title: Re: Lack of knowledge about world religions in the US
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Not to mention the fact that religion has probably been the number one cause of war since the Dinosaurs went bye-bye."

What an enlightened article. I'd rather ponder whether religion has been ever the cause of any war. But OK, this is just another stereotypical concept about religion and why people don't even want to know about it. Also, ignorance about religion simply means that it is irrelevant in people's lives. How would it ever matter for a bloke in Minnesota what unknown people in a never heard of country believe in? It is false premise that reflective and critical thinking is every human being's domain. Who would expect that at least the majority of citizens can paint, sing and dance on a fairly enjoyable level? Higher intelligence is just like artistic skills: not everybody has it, and they don't need it either.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 5th, 2010 at 10:16 PM
Title: Re: Contradiction on Original Nature - Question
Content:
Nosta said:
Astus, it seems that you dont see such teaching (O.Nature) as very useful.

Also, i would say thats a shame that some teachings may not be real Buddha teachings (like that one from O.Nature and maybe Amithabba existence) because they just appeared after Buddha death.

Astus wrote:
The teaching or original nature has many uses and an important part of Mahyana. But it is important to understand it according to its different meanings in different traditions. Saying generally that there is some essential enlightenment in all of us can be very misleading. Personally, as someone who takes Chan as his primary school, I regard buddha-nature as the crucial doctrine of Buddhism. Nevertheless, one should be first clear about the elementary teachings before making hasty interpretations of what original nature means. By the way, history and religious doctrine are two separate areas of study. If you want to take Mahayana as your path you will see how Amita Buddha is absolutely real.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 5th, 2010 at 4:15 PM
Title: Re: Contradiction on Original Nature - Question
Content:
SonamZangpo said:
What I meant is that the Buddha consciousness is universal, primordial. Our consciousness is made of the stuffs of that, but then deluded by karmic perception. In this way I mean we are already Enlightened, but made ignorant by our perceptions and must realize it.

Astus wrote:
Let's say I have a load of money in the bank. But first I have to work for years in order to earn the money and be able to use it. Isn't that the same as if I had no money but got a regular salary from someone else? That's how the idea that there is a buddha-nature hidden somewhere is redundant and good only for giving hope to those full of fears. This is called expedient means in Buddhism. You can find a similar explanation in the Lankavatara Sutra, how buddha-nature teaching is for those who fear losing their selves. I'm not saying that there is no other use of the buddha-nature teaching, but on the level that "it is there, you just have to polish it" is nothing but a good sounding promise without any practical relevance.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 5th, 2010 at 4:07 PM
Title: Re: Contradiction on Original Nature - Question
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nosta,

The teaching of original nature (benxing 本性) is not the same as the teaching of nirvana. First, nirvana is one of the core teachings of Buddhism while original nature is itself a Chinese term we can connect to the teaching of tathagatagarbha, and tathagatagarbha is something we find only in specific Mahayana sutras. Understandably, non-Mahayana schools never even had the concept of original nature and even in Mahayana it was something only a few traditions took up. And here is the second reason, that original nature doesn't necessarily fit into the teachings of a tradition. For instance, both Madhyamaka and Yogacara - the two main systems of Mahayana - has teachings contradicting the idea of an original nature. Or, even when in some cases teachers of those schools accepted tathagatagarbha, they came up with their own interpretation of it. It was in Chinese Buddhism that because of these reasons they actually said that besides Madhyamaka and Yogacara there is a third major Mahayana thought, Tathagatagarbhavada, i.e. those who take original nature as a fundamental teaching.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 5th, 2010 at 7:29 AM
Title: Re: My Spiritual history and a plea to young Buddhists
Content:
Astus wrote:
Wow, it was a good read! I hope the best for you and with this enthusiasm and literary skills you should make a fine monk.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, October 5th, 2010 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: Sexual energy
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sensual lust is not in the body but the mind. It is your mind you should train if you want to gain some control over your passion. Starting meditation practice itself is good for calming the mind which in itself is efficient in decreasing disturbing impulses. Also, through meditation you can eventually gain insight into the nature of sensual craving. So the best thing you can do is to look around in your area and join a Buddhist group where you can learn the basics of meditation practice.

Specifically for sensual lust the antidote used is meditation on impurity (asubha bhavana). Note that it is better if you already know the basics of how to calm your mind, which is the fundamental for any meditation practice in Buddhism. Here you can find a comprehensive introduction to meditation on impurty: https://sites.google.com/site/dhammagroupweb/pubs/asubhaparts. Here you can find it with pictures: http://www.wakeupsmart.com/Asubha.html.

And for some food for thought, here's the relevant chapter from Aryadeva's Four Hundred Stanzas:

Regardless of the amount of time,
Concerning objects there is no limit.
Your exertion for the body's sake
Is, like a bad physician's, useless.

Just as the craving for earth
Does not stop in those that subsist on it,
Similarly, longing for sensual pleasure
Grows in people as they indulge.

Among all women there is not the least
Difference in sexual intercourse.
When others, too, enjoy her appearance,
What use is this perfect woman to you?

Whoever sees her as appealing
Thinks himself satisfied with her.
Since even dogs and the like share this,
Why, fool, are you attracted?

This woman, every part of whom is
Lovely to you, was common to all before.
Finding her is not as
Astonishing as it is for you.

If those with good qualities seem attractive
And their opposite the reverse,
Which is true, former or latter?
For neither alone persists.

A fool's desire does not arise
Only for those with good qualities.
How can reason prevent
Those involved in it without reason?

As long as she knows no other
She will remain with you.
As with disease, woman should always be
Kept from opportunity.

In old age one dislikes
What one did during youth.
Why would the liberated not
Be extremely saddened by it?

Those without desire have no pleasure,
Nor do those not foolish have it.
How can there be pleasure for one
Whose mind constantly strays?

You cannot have intercourse constantly
With a woman to match your attentiveness to her.
Why keep her possessively with the thought,
"She is mine and no one else's."

If desire were pleasurable
There would be no need for women.
Pleasure is not regarded as
Something to get rid of.

Even in intercourse with a woman
Pleasure arises from other [factors].
What sensible person would say
It is caused just by his lover?

Blinded by desire they do not see
Sensuality's fault, like a leper scratching.
Those free from desire see the infatuated
As suffering like the leper.

During a famine the destitute,
Tormented by hunger, [bear] what occurs.
This is how all the infatuated
Behave when they are with women.

Through arrogance one may be
Attached even to one's privy.
Anyone infatuated with
A woman will be jealous of others.

It is reasonable for confusion
And anger about the unclean to occur;
It is not at all reasonable
For desire to occur.

If, except to some people,
A pot of filth is objectionable,
Why would one not think objectionable
That from which the filth comes?

Clean things are looked upon
As the most worthless of all.
What intelligent person
Would say that it is clean?

Whoever has lived in a privy
And without it would not have survived,
In such a dung-worm, arrogance
Arises only through stupidity.

No means whatsoever will purify
The inside of the body.
The efforts you make toward the outside
Do not match those toward the inside.

If, like leprosy, being full of
Urine were not common to all,
Those full of urine, just like lepers,
Would be shunned by everyone.

Just as someone lacking a part
Is delighted with a substitute nose,
Desire holds that impurity is
Remedied by flowers and so forth.

It is inappropriate to call clean that
Toward which freedom from desire arises.
Nor is there anything which is
A definitive cause of desire.

In summary, all four, that is
Impermanence, uncleanness, suffering
And selflessness are possible
With regard to a single [thing].

Understanding that sentient beings are also bound
Like oneself in this unclean prison,
With energy generate compassion observing transmigrators,
And make effort to accomplish highest enlightenment.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 4th, 2010 at 3:33 PM
Title: Re: Contradiction on Original Nature - Question
Content:
Astus wrote:
SonamZangpo,

The buddha-nature teaching is one of the many teachings in Mahayana but not a teaching universally accepted by all Mahayana traditions. Also, we all start as deluded beings on the path. If that were not the case there would be no need for a path.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, October 4th, 2010 at 4:58 AM
Title: Re: Contradiction on Original Nature - Question
Content:
Astus wrote:
Depends on what you're looking for. Is it buddha-nature you're interested in? If so, there are translations with commentaries of the Mahayana Uttaratantra Shastra, aka Ratnagotravibhaga which is a long treatise in verse form on buddha-nature. You can find sutras on it, like the Nirvana Sutra and the Srimaladevi Sutra. There are teachings on it from specific traditions like Mahamudra and Zen. The topic is really vast. If it is totally new to you I recommend Paul Williams' book "Mahayana Buddhism: The Doctrinal Foundations" and it has a whole chapter on Tathagatagarbha, among other things. Perhaps you better go through the whole book.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, October 3rd, 2010 at 9:29 PM
Title: Re: Contradiction on Original Nature - Question
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nirvana being the original nature doesn't mean that in the beginning everything was nirvana which then turned into samsara. It means that without attachment there is nirvana and nirvana is not something created by practice, rather practice is removing hindrances. It's like saying that the original nature of the floor is clean, so if you clear up you get it in its original nature.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, October 3rd, 2010 at 5:40 AM
Title: Re: Authorized Buddhist Books
Content:
Astus wrote:
"We should note that in modern times, the eight Chinese Mahayana Buddhist schools have been reclassified into three schools, and that the boundaries among these schools should no longer be maintained. Even the boundary between Mahayana and Nikaya Buddhism should be eradicated to restore Buddhism to a whole. If someone still wants to fight against the times and call himself the nth patriarch of this school or that sect, he is advised to forget it. As a matter of fact, the eminent monks throughout history were not necessarily patriarchs of any school. Conversely, the official "Dharma heirs" of a school, who held a certificate of succession, were not always enlightened, eminent monks."

(Ven. Shengyan: Orthodox Chinese Buddhism, p. 138)


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, October 3rd, 2010 at 3:35 AM
Title: Re: Authorized Buddhist Books
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ron,

You argue that instead of higher ordination (that of a bhiksu/ni) it is lineage that qualifies somebody to be an authority on anything Buddhist. But what lineage would that be? Certainly no sutra claims the existence of any lineage. Since the Buddha's time the only lineage has been is the lineage of higher ordination, which is a matter of precepts and not doctrine. Beyond that in China they created the idea of the Zen lineage and later in India there was the Tantric lineage. But certainly Zen and Mantrayana are just two later schools within Buddhism. What about everyone else from Theravada to Huayan?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, October 2nd, 2010 at 10:51 PM
Title: Re: Authorized Buddhist Books
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Only monks are allowed to teach the offical positions of Buddhism."

I wonder what would Vimalakirti say about that. Or Sakya Trizin.

Huseng said:
What would Astus say about it who teaches Buddhist courses IRL?

Astus wrote:
I think it was Ajahn Brahm who https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owq_ougaikU that fortunately Buddhism is not owned by anyone. There is no such thing as "orthodox Buddhism" as there is no single person or a group to tell what is official and what is heretic. That's why there are different schools.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, October 2nd, 2010 at 3:23 AM
Title: Re: Authorized Buddhist Books
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Only monks are allowed to teach the offical positions of Buddhism."

I wonder what would Vimalakirti say about that. Or Sakya Trizin.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 30th, 2010 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: Gays and East Asian Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Does not one wonder why all the Tibetan tankas & statues show only male & female in sexual union?"

Is this a gay thing then, all three man, two with long hairs?



But I'm unsure how much it is appropriate to bring in tantric concepts.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 30th, 2010 at 10:06 PM
Title: Re: Gays and East Asian Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
"male-female polarity is screwed up by homosexual acts"

What does this mean? I know there are two specific dharmas within rupa-dharmas in the Theravada abhidharma for masculinity and femininity but such is not found in Vasubandhu's Hundred Dharmas Treatise. I don't see what kind of polarity can there be established in Buddhism for males and females, so it'd be good if you could point it out.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 29th, 2010 at 10:12 PM
Title: Re: The difference between Humanistic and Orthodox Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

No, I don't give much credit to the majority even if they can read and write. They weren't less clever in older times just because there was no education. Still, people who go to university and study economics or science are not interested in going deeper into any religious teaching any more than those who could never finish secondary school. And it's not the potential but the willingness I doubt.

People are serious about liberation but not in this life? Well, it is this life, this world one tries to escape and never repeat again. If I say it's OK to go on with this once more then start working on getting out it's almost the same as never stopping.

In the gradual teachings the Buddha taught about virtues and heaven first. Pure Land is the Buddhist paradise where you can get enlightened. So it comes as a good teaching for everyone.

But as you can see for yourself in the West, where such "high teachings" as Zen, Vipassana and Dzogchen are widespread, people don't necessarily take them seriously. And even those interested in it are mostly middle class, well to do, well educated people.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 29th, 2010 at 9:03 PM
Title: Re: The difference between Humanistic and Orthodox Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Are you changing an attack against an imaginary Humanistic Buddhism into a criticism of a watered down Chinese/Pure Land Buddhism?

The majority of the laity is naturally not interested in abstract ideas like the four noble truths. There are exceptions of course and they're called the literati, the intelligentsia, but they're still the minority. There has never been and never will be a large group of householders being serious about enlightenment and liberation from samsara. Even in Pure Land teaching it is a basic part that one really wants to be free from the world of suffering and attain buddhahood, for which there's bodhicitta developed.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 29th, 2010 at 6:10 AM
Title: Re: Are there esoteric schools of Mahayana in Chinese tradition?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Robert Sharf, summing up his ideas outlined in "Coming to Terms with Chinese Buddhism" (p. 263-278), says in his essay "On Pure Land Buddhism and Ch'an/Pure Land Syncretism in Medieval China":

"The historiography of Chinese Pure Land turns out to run parallel in many respects to the historiography of Chinese Tantra or Esoterism (mi-chiao 密教). As I have argued elsewhere, there is little evidence that the Chinese conceived of an independent Tantric “school” during the T’ang when Esoterism was supposedly at its height. Moreover, there is simply no evidence that the so-called patriarchs of Chinese Tantric Buddhism—Subhakarasimha (Shan-wu-wei 善無畏, 637- 735), Vajrabodhi (Chin-kang-chih 金剛智, 671-741), Amoghavajra (Pu-k’ung 不空, 705-774), and so on—conceived of themselves as such. The category “Esoteric Buddhism” arose in the tenth and eleventh centuries, long after these masters had passed from the scene, and even then the Sung understanding of the term bears little resemblance to how the term is used by religious historians today. As in the case of Chinese Pure Land Buddhism, our contemporary understanding of Chinese Tantric Buddhism is inordinately influenced by developments in Japan. In both instances, scholars have come to view the Chinese materials through the long lens of Japanese Buddhist sectarian history."


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, September 26th, 2010 at 8:05 PM
Title: Re: Khyentse Rinpoche quote and Soto view
Content:
Astus wrote:
The concept of "practice is enlightenment" is not specifically Soto. The idea that the original nature is enlightened and all deeds are the manifestation of that is generally Zen. The important point is the view of "buddha-nature" which is shared by both Dzogchen and Zen. But if we compare Dilgo Khyentse's description with a modern Zen intro to practice we can find how many of those guides include regular formal practice and other things. But it can be very similar too - a lot depends on who you ask.

Let's look at what http://wwzc.org/?operation=about_zen, "Zen is entering into things as they are, beyond concept and cosmology, beyond separation and duality, beyond personality, and into the intimacy and richness of this whole moment. It is a radical questioning into whatever arises as our experiences and true entry into the nature of experiencing. Zen is the day to day and moment to moment practice of this moment."

But if you actually ask how to do that we find something http://www.wwzc.org/teisho/beginners.htm: "As well as sitting, we have walking practices called kinhin; we have movement practices called kata; for eating we have something called oryoki practice. There are also sleeping practices, dreaming practices, because in Zen we want to work with each aspect of our experience, completely. So then, none of these things are themselves Zen. Sitting is not Zen, kinhin is not Zen, oryoki is not Zen. The entire continuum of the training is Zen. ... You are not going to learn Zen in a week or a year or fifteen years."

Zen - in its rhetoric - is rarely so carefree as they like to present Dzogchen. On the other hand, Dzogchen doesn't stand alone but rather as a part of the nine vehicle training of the Nyingma school. Comparison then is very difficult. Especially because when it comes to the practical matters Zen doesn't say you're enlightened just like that, so simply be open and rest. Although "just sitting" sounds like that, but then, why only sit, or why sit at all?

Another important difference is how actual explanation and pointing out of the nature of mind is so hard to find in the Zen teachings while in Dzogchen it's right there. In Zen they like to say you have to do this and that and then you may find the nature of mind. In Dzogchen they try to show it right at the very beginning and then keep working with that. The way Dogen teaches is quite far from how Longchenpa elucidates the meaning. To read Dogen one needs to be able to decode the whole thing, and even then it's hard to gain much from it. Longchenpa is a lot more "user friendly".


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, September 25th, 2010 at 4:05 PM
Title: Re: Tripitaka Container, or Sutra Container
Content:
Astus wrote:
Interesting, although I don't quite understand how one can "experience" something that happened more than two thousand years ago. I'd be interested in some evidence too.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 24th, 2010 at 10:13 PM
Title: Re: Are there esoteric schools of Mahayana in Chinese tradition?
Content:
plwk said:
http://www.tangmi.com/asd/English_TDES.htm

Astus wrote:
That is a good example of Shingon imported back to China.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 24th, 2010 at 6:36 PM
Title: Re: Are there esoteric schools of Mahayana in Chinese tradition?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"I like to focus on the internal a lot."

I don't see exactly how Buddhist tantra is related to that, as it has a lot of rituals and visual practices, not that it doesn't have its depths. In China certain tantric elements have remained, like dharanis and ceremonies, but it is not a separate school. In fact, it's hard to talk about separate schools in Chinese Buddhism, unlike in Japan. Currently there are some tantric groups, of which there are three versions: 1, imported from Shingon 2, imported from Tibet/Mongolia 3, Chinese concoction, mainly from the other two. If you're looking for magic in China you better look around Taoist traditions, actually they've incorporated a lot from Buddhist tantra.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 21st, 2010 at 3:11 PM
Title: Re: Adaptation: 'Buddhism' in the West
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is a nice summary on this subject from Ven. Jian Hu: http://ctzen.org/sunnyvale/enUS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=132&Itemid=59


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 17th, 2010 at 10:55 PM
Title: Re: Human Need.
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think the reply could be the five desires: drink-food, sleep, sex, fame, wealth.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 16th, 2010 at 10:42 PM
Title: Re: Adaptation: 'Buddhism' in the West
Content:
catmoon said:
Hooooold da bus. Your target audience is composed of people who believe ... that Buddha taught them as such

Astus wrote:
This is what I've made my reply on: "Pragmatism is often mentioned as a distinctive characteristic of the Buddha's teaching."


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 16th, 2010 at 10:40 PM
Title: Re: Adaptation: 'Buddhism' in the West
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

It is so. And the first things the Buddha taught were: giving, virtue and heaven. So the be good, do good parts. Then came the drawbacks of sensual passions and samsara and the rewards of renunciation. Finally the four noble truths.

If we want to use that example for the Western spreading of Buddhism it should be first establishing that good karma leads to good birth, and that people should give abundantly and live a virtuous and moral life. So this is the basics of ethics. Only after that we can talk about how samsara is full of suffering, even heavens are painful and they should give up their greedy and sensuous lifestyle. Finally we can get into details about the four noble truths, like dependent origination, nirvana, meditation, selflessness, etc.

What currently happens is that some become interested in meditation and fancy foreign mystical masters, then do some sitting and don't really care about other things. A couple of them becomes more interested and eventually learn something about Buddhism.

To me it seems that the so far successfully used teachings are simple meditation techniques and methods that promise fast attainments. Moral lessons are not what people come to Buddhism for. But I may be wrong.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 16th, 2010 at 9:44 PM
Title: Re: Adaptation: 'Buddhism' in the West
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

I meant was that the basis for the path is right view. Wrong view makes the path impossible and it is also a fundamental source of bad karma. What is right and what is wrong is hardly negotiable, at least in Buddhism. To sacrifice that for relativism and pragmatism is an unfortunate way to think, simply because it presupposes that the Buddha is wrong and the teaching is faulty. Who would want to learn Russian from a teacher one thinks has bad grammar?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 16th, 2010 at 9:00 PM
Title: Re: Adaptation: 'Buddhism' in the West
Content:
Astus wrote:
"people should be taught philosophy as well as science"

Very unlikely to happen. Real study of philosophy requires intelligent, thinking people, without being restricted to thinking in a small box - this is not something many could study or teach. Also, education seems to be more and more under the attach from the god of money, and all subjected to the concept of productivity. A philosophy class is clearly useless for that.

"liberation from suffering ... science cannot achieve"

It needs the Buddhist definition of suffering to say that. There are other ways to look at what men need, like fast food, healthcare and plasma TV.

"Buddha did not teach a "belief system" but a path of practice."

This utilitarian approach is the common excuse of those who're looking only for stress relief but nothing more. It is not Buddhism, as they take no refuge.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 16th, 2010 at 7:29 PM
Title: Re: Is Tibetan Buddhism more logical?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Mudra,

The gradual path is present in every Buddhist tradition, not a Tibetan speciality at all. BTW, I wouldn't say that karma is a faith thing, except for those who lack understanding.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 16th, 2010 at 6:06 PM
Title: Re: Origin and Development of Vajrayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
It indeed has a good summary, thanks for the tip, but only a really short one.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 16th, 2010 at 6:00 PM
Title: Re: Adaptation: 'Buddhism' in the West
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it is not exactly correct to confuse scientific development with economic situation. Europe became rich because of looting and colonising a large percent of Earth, not because they invented the steam engine. And so there are poor countries, even a poor continent, Africa (which otherwise is very rich in natural resources), and rich countries. It is convenient to think that technological development can solve things like hunger, but partially it was technological development that helped the Western countries rob and enslave everyone else (to a certain level). But I think this has little to do with Buddhism.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, September 16th, 2010 at 5:15 PM
Title: Re: Is Tibetan Buddhism more logical?
Content:
Astus wrote:
This is a really good argument in this era to say that one's tradition is more logical than the others. But if we actually look at them I don't think we could definitely claim logic more to one than the other. Actually, the whole tantric system is not too logical, except if there's such thing as "sympathetic logic" as used in magical thinking. One positive argument on the side of the Tibetan tradition is that they've kept alive the epistemology of Dignaga and Dharmakirti unlike in East-Asia. On the other hand, there's Tiantai and Huayan developed in China while the Tibetans worked on madhyamaka a bit further and that's all.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 15th, 2010 at 11:15 PM
Title: Origin and Development of Vajrayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm looking for sources on the history of Vajrayana, including its origins and development in India and Tibet. I'm not familiar with the area, so anything may come. I already know of Sam van Schaik's EarlyTibet blog and I have Ronald M. Davidson's book "Indian Esoteric Buddhism: A Social History of the Tantric Movement", but basically that's all. I'd especially appreciate good summaries and enlightening essays, but as I've said, any good text is OK.

Note: it is not the religious history I'm interested in but the latest academic research.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 14th, 2010 at 5:37 PM
Title: Re: Adaptation: 'Buddhism' in the West
Content:
Astus wrote:
Buddhism is a religion. I understand that religion sounds anti-scientific for many but actually that is not necessarily so. All the older European universities were established by the Church herself and even today there are Christian schools with a high standard of education. Of course, I'm talking about the European situation where the American style evangelical Christianity is a minority and doesn't have much impact beyond the level of the plebs. Just an example, the current governing party in Germany is the "Christian Democratic Union", they have a female president, and it is still a normal Western-European liberal democratic country, where prostitution and gambling is legal, personal drug use is not a criminal act, and symbols and compulsory practices of religion (cross, prayer, etc.) are banned from state schools. This is just to show that religion and Christianity is not necessarily anti-scientific and anti-modern. At the same time, it seems to me that a large portion of traditional western Christians (mainly Roman Catholics, Lutherans and Calvinists) are quite secular and materialist in thinking, as Huseng said, they take "religious beliefs" separately from "scientific facts".

I personally have never really been fond of the idea that science is the source of true knowledge. Yes, science is good for certain things, just like the skills needed for shoemaking and housebuilding. But that's all, it is a craftsmanship, a technique, but neither philosophy, nor spirituality. But what happened is that there were people, philosophers (like the positivists), who tried to prove that true, factual and real knowledge comes only through science, anything beyond that is superstition. And this is where the fight between science and religion starts. A simple engineer who knows how to build bridges has little to argue with theological concepts, they're two different areas. But if you say that true knowledge comes only from the knowledge of building bridges, therefore theology is nonsense, the problem is born.

The very idea that there's anything to be proved scientifically in a religion is nonsense. It's like using chemistry to analyse a poem. And just as literature is not for or against science, why should the situation with Buddhism be different?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 13th, 2010 at 10:54 PM
Title: Re: Adaptation: 'Buddhism' in the West
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it is important to clarify the actual Buddhist view and don't just let it be watered down to an easier interpretation. It is not specifically difficult to understand the middle way view, it's just unfamiliar.

The mind-matter dichotomy doesn't exist in Buddhism simply because it is not a view based on independent elements but rather on conditioned phenomena. And it is possible to say that in Buddhism there is a consciousness separate from matter but that is a highly superficial statement only good for letting people comprehend some basics about rebirth. But if it is about debating on a deeper level such a position has to be dropped and the correct, explicit teaching has to be taken up.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 13th, 2010 at 9:07 PM
Title: Re: Adaptation: 'Buddhism' in the West
Content:
Astus wrote:
"The really interesting issue is the nature of consciousness. If consciousness is non-material, or has a non-material aspect, then rebirth is not at all implausible -- it's actually the more likely possibility. So the root argument is over whether, in fact, "mind" is distinct from "brain"."

The idealist-materialist argument doesn't fit here. The Buddha did address the question of the difference or sameness of the body and soul, see: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.035.than.html. That's how Buddhism is a Middle Way position.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 13th, 2010 at 5:20 PM
Title: Re: Adaptation: 'Buddhism' in the West
Content:
Astus wrote:
I find it a mistaken route to argue for Buddhism's agreement with physicalism, as it is obviously not. Natural science itself is a set of axioms and rules to observe and analyse matter. Analysing Buddhism can be done on many levels, starting with archaeology and philology, up to sociology and philosophy of religion. Mostly these are not natural sciences, simply because Buddhism is a human mental construct and not a natural phenomenon.

It is a biased view to claim that the West and Western people are totally materialists. It is a view similar to Christians saying that that is the traditional religion and the fundamental source of spirituality. True, materialism and science has been the government sponsored orthodoxy in the West for more than a hundred years now, simply because it could provide the usual magical requirements of healing and weaponry. But as we can see in many "religious" countries, the use of products of scientific achievements does not necessitate a materialist view. And looking at Europe, Christianity still has a strong base while the so called New Age movement - without a better name to cover all the divers views - is growing in its number of followers.

Physicalism demonises non-materialist views just like Christianity does so with other religions. There's no point in trying to prove that Buddhism is OK with any matter based view. Rather, teachers should state clearly that physicalism is a very low level view as it is restricted to the four elements and can't see beyond that, even Christianity beats that, while both of them are outer paths (外道), tirthikas, just like Carvaka and Vedanta.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 13th, 2010 at 4:22 PM
Title: Re: Panpsychism and the Dharmakaya.
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is quite difficult to demonstrate that matter is aware.

Only if we conceive a matter, as in science, as something independent. If matter is simply the rupaskandha, as in the Buddhist view, there's an easy way to establish aware matter. See Robert Sharf's essay: http://kr.buddhism.org/zen/koan/Robert_Sharf-e.htm

"It assumes that matter and mind are of the same quality."

True, monism fits it better as a designation and we can put it next to advaita and other such views.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, September 11th, 2010 at 5:46 PM
Title: Re: Panpsychism and the Dharmakaya.
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is not difficult to show how matter is aware. Whatever matter there is there is an awareness perceiving it - in terms of common language. In other words all there are are nothing but perceptions without anything being beyond (independent matter) or before (independent mind) perceptions. This is actually saying that matter is aware since there's nothing that could be without awareness. But panpsychism is not like this as it conceives the world in dualistic ways which is contrary to the Buddhist understanding.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, September 11th, 2010 at 1:29 AM
Title: Re: Natural disasters and collective morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirt,

Karma is not a universal creating force but a modifier of one's perception. And here we can apply the reasoning used to establish a mental continuum separate from matter, only in a reverse fashion. If material dharmas cannot cause mental dharmas, how can mental dharmas cause material dharmas? However, it is not entirely true that material dharmas don't cause mental dharmas, since a single perception of an object can trigger lot of different mental dharmas. Still, this whole field of Buddhism seems entirely unresearched. As far as I know, there is no clear description of the dharmic process of a consciousness defining the body and environment of a new birth. And if it were really the karma forming the environment, isn't it strange that nobody ever experienced that throughout the process of delivering a baby not much changes in the surroundings? Should we then say that it is about the outer conditions matching the inner causes, without there being a karma modifying the place? Also, it doesn't seem likely that a consciousness could foresee the events that will happen in one's life, therefore if it happens that a tornado blows away one's house later it's hardly one's karma causing it.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 10th, 2010 at 11:18 PM
Title: Re: Buddhism view on talking with dead people
Content:
Astus wrote:
People can be reborn as spirits, it's called the realm of hungry ghosts. Not a good birth.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 10th, 2010 at 9:49 PM
Title: Re: Natural disasters and collective morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
There's no disagreement here then at all. Still, the original question was if natural disasters are the results of people's bad deeds or not. How do you relate to that?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 10th, 2010 at 9:44 PM
Title: Re: Rev. Jason Carter
Content:
Astus wrote:
Well, as for the Buddhist side, no harm is a principle and there are teachings against even possessing weapons, not to mention teaching people how to use them. All this energy put in punching and kicking could be used to perhaps print some Dharma materials, or translating sutras (if he knows any relevant languages), or perhaps just organising a zendo instead of a dojo.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 10th, 2010 at 7:06 PM
Title: Re: Rev. Jason Carter
Content:
Astus wrote:
The whole thing looks too bad to be true.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 10th, 2010 at 7:02 PM
Title: Re: Natural disasters and collective morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sure, that is a valid point and a view found everywhere, starting with the Buddha saying in the Nikayas that the whole world is the six sensory fields. But then, it doesn't mean everything can be reduced to karma since not even our own deeds are karmic all the time. And to say all our experiences are directly the results of our karma is another major simplification. It is another problem to connect different karmas and minds and say that they produce a common experience to all involved.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 10th, 2010 at 5:59 PM
Title: Re: Natural disasters and collective morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
OK, so let's work within Yogacara premises. It accepts the existence of rupadharma, so there is a causal reality of them. We can agree that whatever we could name as existent must be a mental existence. So if there's a volcano that erupted 2000 years ago and today we learn about it what we see are the effects. Then through reasoning we are able to state that there must have been an eruption. But we could bring here any geological research going back to tens of thousands of years.

If we say all those phenomena were a result of collective karma, well, whose collective karma? Dinosaurs'? Also, should we count all sentient beings or only humans?

So there are big problems here if one insists that it is only karma that causes everything.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, September 7th, 2010 at 3:24 PM
Title: Re: awakening myth?
Content:
Astus wrote:
How could it be a myth? It is an essential part of Buddhism, the Third Noble Truth. Without enlightenment Buddhism is meaningless. Having faith in the attainability of liberation is part of taking refuge in the Triple Jewel. So, I don't know where you got those ideas, but they're mistaken.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, September 6th, 2010 at 4:14 PM
Title: Re: Everything we experience ....
Content:
Astus wrote:
Experience, Zen, birds, there you go:

One day Baizhang accompanied Mazu on a walk. A flock of wild ducks flew by them.
Mazu said, "What's that?"
Baizhang said, "Wild ducks."
Mazu said, "Where'd they go?"
Baizhang said, "They flew away."
Mazu then twisted Baizhang's nose so hard that he cried out.
Mazu said, "So you say they've flown away!"
Upon hearing these words Baizhang attained enlightenment.
(from: Zen's Chinese Heritage by A.E. Ferguson, p. 77)


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, September 5th, 2010 at 4:58 AM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Perhaps a change of focus from what the tradition says to why it says that could help. Here's what I mean. Dzogchen essentially is simply awareness itself. Everybody who wants to use the Dzogchen teachings have to know that and be familiar with awareness. But with only that how many can actually complete the path to buddhahood? Not so many. Since the teachers of Dzogchen want to help people there are different methods used to let people walk the path of Dzogchen and not just know about it. That's where all the practices come in. And even that is nothing complicated, nothing difficult to make it easy for everyone.

Let me give an example. When a teacher has to teach a class the alphabet he may simply recite it from A to Z and tell them to start reading and writing. Or he may also write the alphabet on the board and show the children the letters one by one. Is that enough for kids to know how to read and write? Unlikely. So they practice reading and writing, starting with the letters themselves. And then they will learn in years to follow the correct spelling, punctuation, composition, styles of literature, etc. What every English poet needs are only the 26 letters. But just knowing the alphabet is not enough.

So, while every Dzogchenpa knows rigpa, it has never been enough to make them even a simple Buddhist yogi, not to mention a guru - which is still not the attainment of buddhahood. Yes, no doubt awareness is the single essence of the whole Buddhist teaching. But just think about yourself. Have you attained buddhahood already to be content with your understanding and realisation?

No one can be forced to practise anything. It is a personal choice. And if somebody feels that focusing only on awareness and not tiring oneself with other techniques, how could that person be pursued to try something else?

On the other hand, arguing about what actually a teaching is about is a theoretical question. Arguments like that has its rules, like basing one's statements on valid sources, which are direct experience, logic and authentic sources. Interestingly enough, there are actually whole books about Dzogchen ngöndro like "Great Perfection: Outer and Inner Preliminaries" by the Third Dzogchen Rinpoche. So I suppose these teachings are meant to be used if those outstanding teachers of this tradition of Great Perfection cared to commit it to writing. Even if they're all just the letters of the alphabet put after each other.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, September 4th, 2010 at 4:35 AM
Title: Re: What group is this?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dear Remm,

No need to scan anything, on http://longbeachmonastery.org/NEWSanghaJewel.htm everyone can see the whole thing. But then, would you say that Ven. Xuyun's transmission of the Linji lineage that have been received eventually through two masters by Ven. Shengyan is fake? Also, an interesting thing about Ven. Xuanhua's lineage of the Guiyang school is that it is a broken lineage, simply because the Guiyang transmission has died out about a thousand years ago. The transmission paper featured on that site shows it very well too. On the other hand, Ven. Shengyan's Linji lineage ( http://www.westernchanfellowship.org/lineage-chart.html ) looks unbroken - even if it is historically very much questionable at a couple of points, just as every Chan lineage. By the way, just because Ven. Xuanhua's transmission line is broken doesn't mean it's fake or anything like that, I don't mean to question any of the involved teachers' integrity. But then, weren't you trying to find out the nature of the ZBOHY group? Sorry if I've caused any distraction with my chit-chat about lineages and stuff. Although the whole concept of transmission might be relevant in evaluating groups and claims of orthodoxy.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, September 3rd, 2010 at 10:54 PM
Title: Re: What group is this?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Xuyun is regarded a major teacher in modern Chinese Buddhism so it is simply natural that a large number of teachers claim to be descendants of him. Master Xuanhua was just one of the many. I don't know if Jy Din Shakya's (or the ZBOHY's) claims are true or not. Actually, how could I affirm or deny anyone's claim without having direct access to Xuyun's notes (if there are any), or using other reliable methods for historical investigation? But this part is not really a problem I think, people and groups like to establish their authority and orthodoxy in whatever ways they see appropriate.

As for the nature of that community, it looks like a group of Western people who practice a form of Buddhism, but in a not so traditional way. Their idea of being a "married monk" or "lay monk" is very much like in Japanese Buddhism, probably there's a relationship between them, at least in concept.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 1st, 2010 at 8:39 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan madhyamaka
Content:
Astus wrote:
Mariusz,

Would that make any actual difference if you use common Madhyamaka terminology or bring in Dzogchen terms? I mean, it may help in connecting different teachings, or explaining this one, but otherwise you arrive at the same understanding that there is dependence between phenomena and thus there's nothing to be furious about.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 1st, 2010 at 7:41 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan madhyamaka
Content:
Astus wrote:
Madhyamaka is the understanding that emptiness is dependent origination. This was sufficiently established by Nagarjuna and Aryadeva, but even their works are only elaboration on this one thing. Beyond them are only skilful means to understand it. Either one prefers one argument or the other doesn't make much difference. The point is to actually understand it. So to me Chandrakirti is as good as Shantarakshita or Taranatha.

Sorry for being so simple.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, September 1st, 2010 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: Huayen Globalization Forum to be held in Taipei
Content:
Astus wrote:
I find it sort of unfortunate when a group of Buddhists gather to discuss something outside of their field of expertise, like ecology in this case, or the http://www.icundv.com/vesak2010/node/42, or they just talk about http://www.dharmawomen.org/2010/schedule.aspx, like "Hawaiian Sacred Dance of Hula", "Zen of Knitting" and "Tai Chi". Why is it that almost exclusively http://www.international.ucla.edu/buddhist/article.asp?parentid=87398 something relevant to Buddhism? Is it that Buddhists want to impress people how they can touch on newspaper topics, or http://www.wbc.my/prog.php, while academics don't mind talking about whatever they prefer to research, even if nobody else comes to listen outside of that area of knowledge?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 31st, 2010 at 9:36 PM
Title: Re: Question about arguments against Mahayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
We can look at it from another perspective. Theravada's point of argument is that it is the original teaching. As Huseng has pointed to it briefly, that is not the case as far as modern historical research is concerned. Theravada is one of the end results of the developments going on in India after the death of the Buddha and actually Theravada, as a living tradition, is still subject to change, including their canon. Mahayana, if we don't mind summing it up under this one title, is another natural development of Buddhism in India. Many of the Mahayana teachings are actually from established schools like Vaibhasika, Sautrantika and Dharmagupta. Even the Bodhisattva-pitaka was not a new Mahayana idea. So either looking from the past or from the present, Mahayana is not a bit less Buddhist than Theravada. And as far as the doctrines of these two traditions are concerned, what we can find in the Nikayas are mostly common teachings, including the teaching of the intermediate state, of which Bhikkhu Bodhi says, "Though the Theravada Abhidhamma and the commentaries argue against the existence of an antarabhava, a number of canonical texts seem to support this notion." (footnote 53 of SN 35.87 in Connected Discourses of the Buddha, Wisdom Pub., 2000. p. 1406).


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 31st, 2010 at 6:37 PM
Title: Re: Question about arguments against Mahayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
When one has to prove his orthodoxy, his authenticity, it is the case that such position is not an evidence. Theravada, or for that matter, other early schools, had no such problem - except for certain doctrines they argued about with each other - as they and their canon was accepted as Buddhism. So all the Mahayana works, like sutras, shastras, and other teachings had to argue for their authenticity and supremacy while calling everyone else inferiors. Then the same happened with Vajrayana and Zen, both had to fight its way to become accepted and eventually the ruling teaching. They were all building up from a disorganised movement, like Christianity in the Roman times.

However, times have changed. Mahayana is very well established with hundreds of millions of followers and a long history throughout Asia. It was only because of fortunate events that Theravada could survive at all in countries like Sri Lanka and Thailand. One monk arguing on YouTube about how Theravada is the only real Buddhism makes no difference, especially that it is not the opinion of every Theravada monk. So I don't see the need for defending Mahayana (which is actually quite a vague word) against any Theravada attacks. That is because it is now evident that Chinese, Tibetan and other forms of Buddhism are Buddhism. If the Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh are not Buddhists then what are they?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 31st, 2010 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

It seems I've presented my position here poorly that this kind of interpretation could have occurred. Not being attached is not the same as becoming nothing, or eliminating everything, and I didn't mean so. Attachment (upadana) is defined as fourfold: attachment to sensuality, to false views, to rules and rituals, and to self-view. But getting into this level of defining basic concepts feels a bit of a sidetrack. Also, the term "beyond thoughts", or "no thoughts" (無念) is not about not having thoughts and becoming a piece of stone. Rather it is a central teaching of Zen.

Here's what the Platform Sutra says:

McRae translation, p. 33 / 351b said:
"What is nonthought? If in seeing all the dharmas, the mind is not defiled or attached, this is nonthought. [The mind’s] functioning pervades all locations, yet it is not attached to all the locations. Just purify the fundamental mind, causing the six consciousnesses to emerge from the six [sensory] gates, [causing one to be] without defilement or heterogeneity within the six types of sensory data (literally, the “six dusts”), autonomous in the coming and going [of mental phenomena], one’s penetrating function without stagnation. This is the samādhi of prajñā, the autonomous emancipation. This is called the practice of nonthought.
"If one does not think of the hundred things in order to cause thought to be eradicated, this is bondage within the Dharma. This is called an extreme view.
"Good friends, to be enlightened to the Dharma of nonthought is for the myriad dharmas to be completely penetrated. To be enlightened to the Dharma of nonthought is to see the realms of [all] the buddhas. To be enlightened to the Dharma of nonthought is to arrive at the stage of buddhahood.

Astus wrote:
But I believe the true champion of the no thought teaching is Wuzhu of the Baotang school:

Adamek translation, p. 364-365 / T51n2075, p0189c8-17 said:
“All beings are fundamentally pure and fundamentally complete. From the Buddhas at the upper end down to sentient beings, all are of the same pure nature. However, with a single thought [produced by] the deluded mind of beings, the Three Worlds are dyed. It is because beings have thought that one provisionally teaches no-thought, but if there is no presence of thought, then no-thought itself is not. No thought is thus no-birth, no-thought is thus no-extinction. No-thought is thus no-love, no-thought is thus no-hate. No-thought is thus no-grasping, no-thought is thus no-abandoning. No-thought is thus no-high, no thought is thus no-low. No-thought is thus no-male, no-thought is thus no-female. No-thought is thus no-true, no-thought is thus no-false. At the time of true no-thought, no-thought itself is not. ‘When the mind is produced then the various dharmas are produced, when the mind is extinguished then the various dharmas are extinguished.’ ‘As one’s mind is, so also are the stains of wrongdoing, so also are all dharmas.’ At the time of true no-thought, ‘all dharmas are the Buddha-Dharma,’ there is not a single dharma separate from bodhi.”


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 31st, 2010 at 4:23 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Astus wrote:
Maybe I've used the wrong word. Only those who misunderstand Zen abandon the teachings. In my understanding "Zen and Kyo" is a false separation.

I don't see how it's a futile attempt to practise non-attachment.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 31st, 2010 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Astus wrote:
"This assumes one is actually capable of such an insight before having mastered the previous insights."

Indeed. But that is not necessarily the case in my view. It is how we see those stages and their realisation. The essence of Zen meditation is seeing thoughts arise and leave without getting involved. That is one common definition summing up all the Buddhist meditation techniques. There is more to it before and after. Before it is what Shenhui criticised as gradual teaching, the usual contemplation on the skandhas and six sensory area, etc. After it is the direct pointing to mind being the buddha. In real life practice there are no limits of varieties how a practitioner may progress.

The essence will always be to "see beyond thoughts" (觀無念), whether one is meditating on the body, on emotions, on appearances, or on thoughts, it's always realising its emptiness, relinquishing it, and going on without attachment to it. It is called the sudden path because it goes immediately to the root of all the problems: mind. To see that the mind is empty - which cannot be any more difficult than seeing a piece of paper empty, but actually even easier as we have the mind right here and there's no need for any special  explanation and understanding to investigate it directly - is to see the emptiness of everything. When that is realised, what else could be left? That's why it is "seeing nature, becoming buddha".

So, I now look at my mind. Sure, it is empty, clear, aware, unborn, undying. What else could it be but buddha? Anyone can see it for himself. But am I now perfectly enlightened, free from all defilements, never to arise any more? No. It is the nature of the mind that is buddha. It's always been like that.  The sole difference a single insight makes is that I can attest it is true, I have a solid faith in it. Dongshan says (T47n1986B, p526a1-2) in his famous poem: "It's like before a jewelled mirror, form and reflection see each other; you are not it, but it is you." This is the same what he says in his enlightenment verse (520a22). Yangshan Huiji once helped a monk by first making him think of his home town then asking if those things in his home town exist in his mind, pointing out that "What is thinking is the mind, what is thought of is the environment (from Schloegl's translation of 境)." (T47n1990, p587b5) This teaching resembles Yangshan's enlightenment story (582b8-11):

Yangshan asked, "What is the abode of the real buddha?" Guishan said, "Without thinking think of the mysterious. Return your thinking to the boundlessness of the spiritual flame, until thinking exhausts in the source, where nature and characteristics always dwell and phenomena and principle are not two. The real buddha is like that." Upon these words Yangshan suddenly enlightened.

Guishan once explained (T47n1989, p577c4-7) that there might be people who, though enlightened suddenly, still have karma from the beginningless past, so that has to be purified, but now from the view of realisation. This actually happens to match what Zongmi and his followers taught about sudden enlightenment followed by gradual cultivation, which was used as a way to bring together Chan and Huayan views. The same approach is found in Mahamudra and Dzogchen too. Nevertheless, there's no negation of buddhahood in this life.

"The problem is mental fitness. This is where having an intellectual understanding and actually having penetrating insight and their difference must be stressed."

Of course, as you may well know, it is stressed heavily in Zen, so far as it's done even excessively by abandoning the teachings.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, August 30th, 2010 at 11:36 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Good quote. See, what it says, actually goes perfectly fine with the sudden teachings: "The realization that Mind is eternal
is called the final enlightenment." So if one, instead of gradually working on myriad defilements, just "see nature", then the whole thing is immediately solved. And this direct insight is what Zen and others teach. Although they also say it is for people with high capacity. So karma is definitely a factor. The Perfect Enlightenment Sutra is a good example for this as it goes from sudden to gradual, from simple to complicated, from higher to lower methods, starting with "there's nothing to do" and finishing with repentance practice. Then another issue, that makes sudden enlightenment (theoretically) accessible to everyone is the teaching of universal buddha-nature. So if we all have it right here, this mind, then if it is actually pointed out, what could stop one to realise it?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, August 30th, 2010 at 9:50 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Astus wrote:
It was a good point Anders that the Awakening Mahayana Faith Treatise says explicitly that bodhisattvas have to go through three aeons. What to do with that then if actually Tiantai, Huayan, Chan and Zhenyan talks about sudden enlightenment, ie. not going through the ten stages? In the "Netbreaking Commentary to the Awakening Mahayana Faith Treatise" (T44n1850, vol. 5) Ouyi Zhixu first explains that passage with "Time is not real dharma. It depends only on false thinking." (455c12) and then gives usual examples for that (what feels long for one is short for others). In the second part then he speculates about the actual meaning of this arduous task of a bodhisattva and what the Buddha meant by it. It seems to me he takes no definitive position but goes by the line of the Platform Sutra saying that sudden and gradual is dependent on one's faculties.

Huangbo Xiyun says (T48n2012A, p380b), "Some hearing the Dharma easily attain no mind in one moment. Some reach the ten faiths, ten abodes, ten practices, ten dedications, then attain no mind. Long or short, when no mind is obtained it remains. There can be nothing more to cultivate or realise. ... Since there's nothing more beyond buddhahood, they (long and short path practitioners) attain the same. When [the one who went through long practice] looks back on kalpas of practices, it's all as if he was acting deluded in a dream."

This whole problem can be enlightened by this simple dialogue (X63n1224, p27a8-9):

Yuan precept master said, "Must go through three great asankhyeya-kalpas, only then attains it."
Huihai said, "Asankhyeya-kalpas can be counted, or not?"

Dazhu Huihai himself says (X63n1224, p26c6) of this issue: "Deluded people hope to realise it in a distant kalpa. Enlightened people suddenly see it." This rhymes well with what Huseng heard from that teacher. But I think Huihai's point was rather that only those without knowledge think there is an immeasurably long path ahead, but those who know better understand that "this mind is buddha" and there's nowhere else to go for it. So he defined (X63n1223, p22c5) the essential Chan teaching this way: "Sudden enlightenment is attaining liberation without leaving this life."

It should not be forgot here that these sudden teachings redefine the three buddha bodies from majestic external phenomena to attributes of buddha-mind. And as the buddha-mind becomes the cardinal tenet of these systems, there are quite a big number of sutras discussing the tathagatagarbha they can rely on. And if we add the tantras there's no way to call it simply a fiction of some Chinese monks. But contrary to what Mantrayana people claim, buddhahood in this life is not just a tantric teaching.

So I think first it would be good to settle this sudden path first, if it is what it claims to be, then go on with investigating whether it has anything to do with sravakayana or not.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 27th, 2010 at 6:16 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

"Unfortunately not all of it is from reliable authorities."

One has to be able to sort it out and don't put the books by Rajneesh on the same shelf as those by Jamgon Kongtrul.

"Buddhism is still in its infancy."

I thought it was the oldest world religion. Buddhism has been known longer in the west than linguistics or psychology were invented. It may be that today we count Buddhism's presence in the West from the 50s, but actually it's been here on some level centuries before, the 20th century brought the rapid spread of the religion, but not its appearance. What makes it an infant actually? A man has only 60-70 years maximum to study it, many renown masters had only 20-30. Dogen was 28 when he returned to Japan and started to teach Zen, then died 25 years later. Could we say that was OK he established a new school because there was Buddhism in Japan for a few centuries by then? Or because Zen in China was well established? Or Zhiyi could form his novel ideas because he was a monk and there was already a corpus he could work from?

"attempting to combine the doctrines of Pure Land in Japan with Theravada in Sri Lanka is not going to work."

Doesn't sound impossible. For instance, one could use their Abhidhamma to outline the work of Amita Buddha, or use satipatthana to meditate on the Pure Land.

"I have problems with statements that the mind is naturally without any obstruction."

It's fine with me if you don't like buddha-mind teachings. That doesn't mean it is not an important part of a couple of Mahayana traditions.

"Or they're talking about having achieved Arhatship or Pratyekabuddhahood, neither of which is attainment of the dharmakaya. Or maybe they were speaking figuratively when they used the two characters 成佛 (becoming Buddha)."

I think both are unlikely, especially the first one.

"As I said above in the case of Master Shengyan he wrote that one has a brief vision of the realm of the Buddhas which would be a life changing event, but would not actually be permanent Buddhahood."

That is Ven. Shengyan's view of it, which is fine in itself, but there are other interpretations. For instance, in Vajrayana it is "working with the result", ie. buddha-mind. Same applies for Zen, training with the buddha-mind.

"The problem with famous Zen masters is that they like to talk in riddles and use figurative language. If you sit down and read those Chan stories in particular they're interesting fiction and not to be taken literally. They employ many many metaphors to convey ideas not apparent on the surface."

I understand Zen stories are like that but those are only one form of teachings, actually a literary style created in the 10th century, after the Tang era, and became popular in the Song. Still, what they gave as teachings either in Tang or after were all in usual Buddhist parlance and nothing incomprehensible. These you can read in the "recorded sayings" of different masters. However, there are some exceptions here, especially the records of Linji and Yunmen as those were seriously reworked in later times, so a large portion of them are like koans. But try the works of Dazhu Huihai or Huangbo Xiyun, both early masters in the Hongzhou school, and they're not mystical at all.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 27th, 2010 at 5:57 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

There can't be a unifying vision. It is possible to synthesise, a classic method, but that necessarily results in something new. In China they created different schools based on structuring available Buddhist materials, so they did in India and Tibet. Now we have a growing corpus of English Buddhist teachings which is already quite big, especially if put together. It is possible that one simply delves into a single tradition, a single practice. But then actually a single tradition means that some have already sorted out, interpreted and structured the Buddhist teaching so they can present it as one, whole and complete. It is all fine, we have Theravada, we have Tiantai, we have Nyingma. However, what they summed up in those traditions are from different sources that we have now. Zhiyi could use the MPPU while Yinshun could use the Lamrim Chenmo for instance. If I had to single out one sutra, or one shastra as the best, I couldn't do so. Sure, I have some favourites, but that doesn't mean to me that the others are inferior in any sense. It is true that there were hardly any Mahayana teacher in China or Tibet who cared to use the Agamas but today many quote the Pali Canon, while Theravada teachers cite some Zen stories. In sum, there is a merging going on on some levels. Fine examples are Yogi Chen, Yinshun and Ajahn Amaro. This, in my opinion, doesn't make Buddhism less or worse but rather fresh and alive, capable of transformation.

"No, there is much more to the dharmakāya than that. It includes omniscience and complete eradication of all defilements without exception among other features."

Well, the nature of mind is naturally without any obstruction to comprehension and there's no defilement to be found in it. The whole point of the buddha-mind is that it is not different from the mind of the buddhas. But of course this is not everyone's view of the buddha-mind. Also, an interesting extra from Huangbo: "Buddha-nature is emptiness. Even if adorned by immeasurable wisdom and merit, in the end those cannot remain." (T51n2076_p0272a11-12)

"I'm hesitant about any claims that one can completely bypass the Bodhisattva stages. Whether you interpret such statements in sutra as meaning that or not is up to you and the commentaries you favour."

And this is actually a key thing in what I've brought up originally about sudden/direct paths since they say they in fact by pass the bodhisattva stages. So the promise of becoming a buddha in this life is about avoiding the long bodhisattva path. Therefore it may be - at least this sounds like a fine argument against those ideas - that they actually teach a sravakayana.

"I'll believe it when I see it or meet a reliable authority who can demonstrate the validity of such claims."

I can quote a dozen famous Zen masters if that's good enough for you. But actually everyone else who teach sudden enlightenment talk about becoming buddha and not something below that.

"Sure, but then you have to explain why if the enlightenment of an Arhat and a Buddha is the same why does the former completely remove themselves from the conditioned world at death, thus being unable to help others while the latter does indeed remain."

I hope that by now you see what kind of buddhahood I talk about here, that kind of buddha one can become in this body.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 26th, 2010 at 5:45 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Maybe I should have put up a note that I'm going here cross-traditional using references to Southern, Northern and Eastern traditions. So it is not a question how one school, one lineage or one teacher defines these terms for in that case it'd be quite straightforward. I'm trying to explore the "One Dharma" perspective, to use Goldstein's terminology, or a Western Ekayana.

"I don't think all but a very small minority of people realistically think they'll achieve attainment of the dharmakāya within their lifetime."

Well, it depends on what you take to be dharmakaya. Either I take a Zen or a Vajrayana approach, it is nothing but the nature of mind one realises at the very beginning. Not that difficult.

"I wouldn't take symbolism in religious literature as absolutely literal."

While that case in the Lotus Sutra has been actually used in Zen texts for reference, I mentioned it actually because the Fo Guang Shan dictionary uses it in the definition of "this body becoming buddha". By the way, what else would it symbolise than what it apparently looks like?

"You can be enlightened and not be a Buddha."

Intended no confusion here. I took the easier path where sudden enlightenment equals attaining buddhahood, so it doesn't matter whether it's 悟, or 覺, or 成佛, or anything else.

"In some Mahayana thought the idea is that the Arhat only achieves nirvana with remainder"

Yes, there are many versions of interpreting arhathood in Mahayana. Here I refer to only Theravada interpretations, where actually a living arhat attains nirvana with remainder. But that simply stands for the presence of aggregates without attachment.

"Tathāgatagarbha is not single unified system."

Certainly. But I rather take the Awakening Mahayana Faith Treatise as it has been a lot more popular than the Buddha-Nature Treatise and had influence on Zen and other schools. On the Tibetan side it's the Shentong form of interpretation that could be the matching one here.

"a product of East Asian thought and has no direct ancestor in Indic thought"

Being Indic or non-Indic has little relevance in today's Buddhism. And perhaps if we looked into the latest forms of Indic Buddhism we could find the teachings like Anuttarayogatantra and the Sahajiyas talking about inherent purity and original buddha-mandala.

So, just to make it really clear, I'm not looking for definitions within a single tradition or how an ancient master argued against even older masters. This whole thing I bring up from today's perspective, or at least I'm trying, with having three major Buddhist traditions in one place. That's the point of the "One Dharma Project".


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 26th, 2010 at 12:50 AM
Title: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Astus wrote:
In the major Mahayana traditions that we have today all teach, except one, that Buddhahood is possible in a single lifetime. There are different names given to this concept but what seems to cover all is "this body becomes buddha" (即身成佛), i.e. becoming buddha in this body, which has been singled out by Kukai as the term summing up the essence of Shingon (see: http://www12.canvas.ne.jp/horai/sokushingi.htm ), but actually can be traced back to the case with the dragon princess in the http://www2.fodian.net/world/0262_12.html who turned into a buddha in no time.

This idea of sudden enlightenment (頓悟) - first advocated by Daosheng (355-434), a disciple of Kumarajiva - is taken to be an improvement, a higher teaching compared to the gradual path of the bodhisattva going through kalpas of training. But it is possible to see it not as an improvement but actually a return to being an arhat.

What I mean is that there's hardly any difference between the attainment taught in these sudden methods from one we can find in Theravada and other Mahayana teachings. The basic concept is, as always has been, to eliminate attachment to the six kinds of experiences. That is what an arhat achieves. Then compared to an arhat a buddha is supposed to have some extras starting with the bodily signs, so comes in the accumulation of merits through aeons. Finally, with the appearance of the tathagatagarbha teachings the possibility of a short cut came up, since buddha-nature contains all the buddha qualities. That's how sudden enlightenment became possible, that's what the Zen axiom of "this mind is buddha" (即心是佛) stands for.

Then if there is this inherent enlightenment (本覺), which is not different from the mind free from attachments, how could it be different from an arhat but in name only?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 24th, 2010 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: Hoshin Tendai Mikkyo? No.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Is there already a Tendai group called Hoshin Tendai Mikkyo? Just because then it can indeed be confusing. Otherwise, it is not a trademark or something like that. And if one feels like it, why not create a martial arts group with some extras called Tendai Mikkyo? In China there was not just one Tiantai group but at least two that I know of, and they didn't like each other for sure. People can call so many things Zen, Tantra and what not. Why Tendai is an exception? And Mikkyo, well, that is just "secret teaching", not even something restricted to a sect.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, August 23rd, 2010 at 3:46 PM
Title: Re: Natural disasters and collective morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Indeed, it's this ancient belief that if one lives according to whatever rules (morals) the god(s) came up with the nation will be in peace and prosper. Although in many cases this "morality" included certain rituals from grain to human sacrifice. The very concept that rules and rituals have soteriological relevance is a wrong view - unlike in Brahmanism and others. To say that what I do can in fact change the weather, well, I'd love to see this explained either from the physical-scientific, or the Abhidharmic side. Which mental factor is the condition for water particles in the sky? And how do millions of minds (not counting the animals, but we could) living in a single city define the wind currents? Isn't it the case that we cannot even control our own bodies even if we like to believe that it is "me, mine, my self"?

So, I see no reason why it should be that there is such a group karma causing disasters.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, August 23rd, 2010 at 5:12 AM
Title: Re: Suggestions please
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think this answers your question:

All causes and effects
Are consciousness alone.
And all that this establishes
Abides in consciousness.

On the basis of the Mind Alone,
We should know that outer things do not exist.
On the basis of the method set forth here,
We should know that mind is utterly devoid of self.

Those who ride the chariot of the two approaches,
Who grasp the reins of reasoned thought,
Will thus be adepts of the Mahayana
According to the sense and meaning of the word.

Vishnu, Ishvara, and others do not taste
The cause of the abiding in the measureless.
And also those who are the crowns of all the world
Are thoroughly without a taste of it.

This perfect state, this pure ambrosia,
Alone enjoyed by Buddhas, those Thus Gone,
Who are themselves results of pure compassion,
None but they can taste of it.

Those who have the mind to follow this tradition
Will strongly feel intense compassion
For those who have the mind to trust
To tenets of mistaken teachings.

Those rich in wisdom, who perceive
To what extent all other doctrines lack essential pith,
To that extent will feel intense devotion
For the Buddha, who is their Protector.

(Madhyamakalankara, verses 91-97)

This is from the text called "Adornment of the Middle Way" by Shantarakshita, which addresses how all appearances are only mental in nature, and how consciousness is actually empty. It is available with a commentary by Jamgon Mipham, a 19th century Tibetan master of great renown.

As for some instant practical advice, you may take a look at this Dzogchen teaching: http://www.purifymind.com/DiscoverNatureMind.htm


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, August 21st, 2010 at 6:08 AM
Title: Re: International Order of Buddhist Ministers
Content:
Astus wrote:
"With consideration to Jodo shu and Nichiren, every other lineage in Buddhism which exists has a lineage of qualified instructors which is in place to assure the quality of the teaching."

The only lineage that actually traces itself back to Shakyamuni Buddha (and beyond) is Zen - and that lineage is not at all a historical fact. Vajrayana lineages go back as far as teachers like Tilopa and Padmasambhava, who all lived long after Shakyamuni. The Tiantai school also had a lineage where Zhiyi, de facto founder, was claimed to be the third patriarch, but transmission of any secret doctrine was not a requirement for every practitioner, it was rather the ruling patriarch that they traced a lineage for. No other Buddhist school had this kind of lineage based on direct transmission from teacher to student, and that means everyone else from all the early Indian schools up to Yogacara and Huayan.

So if you want to claim that true Buddhism exists only within Zen and possibly Vajrayana, OK. On the other hand, if you think that such masters like Nagarjuna, Asanga, Candrakirti, Dignaga and many others deserve some credit in making Mahayana what it is, you may also accept that lineage is not a requirement for authentic Dharma.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 20th, 2010 at 6:47 PM
Title: Re: International Order of Buddhist Ministers
Content:
Astus wrote:
That kind of lineage as seen in Zen for instance is not a universal part of Buddhism. Actually, the whole transmission lineage concept is restricted to a few traditions and others don't use it. And in the case of Zen lineage served mainly a political purpose rather than a spiritual/religious one. Transmission is a means of marginal groups to show how special they are. The major Indian schools had no use of that kind of authorisation because they were already authentic on their own. Lineage is not a proof of realisation or even correct view. The proof of realisation is one's life, and one's mind that can hardly be scrutinised by anyone else. The proof of correct view is being able to prove it through the use of scriptures and reasoning. What kind of proof is it if a person claims authority on secret transmission? Yes, it is a level of security if people are authorised by an accepted teacher, but even that is not 100%, just check out Shunryu Suzuki and his descendants.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 20th, 2010 at 4:42 PM
Title: Re: Pure lands....why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Sure, but he was a disciple of Shakyamuni and did not wait to be reborn in a Pure Land post-mortem. He received teachings directly from the Buddha and did not put his faith in being reborn in somewhere else where conditions would be more pleasant (such as somewhere where people would not treat him as the murderer that he was).

The story of Angulimala was only for giving an example for the event of changing mind and its effects. As for faith in being born somewhere, well, that is another common thing, starting from birth in the upper levels of samsara up to the ways of going to different buddha-lands. I think you're well aware of sutras giving instructions on how to gain birth in the lands of Akshobhya and Bhaishajyaguru. It's just that Amita Buddha became the favourite among all the others.

If I'm not mistaken, the Pure Land is still samsara, no?

It is not, the Tiantai 10 realms is an explanation for it. But of course one could argue for saying that the world is always some buddha's land, and there are different views about buddha-lands.

I don't trust the scriptures enough to put my money so to speak on such a gamble. If I can't verify it or find it reasonable (for example I find Shakyamuni's teachings verifiable in many instances and reasonable, or for that matter Nagarjuna or Asanga), then I'm reluctant to pursue something purely on faith.

Well, to argue for Amita Buddha's vows and land without relying on scripture looks quite impossible, just like taking refuge in the Triple Gem without ever knowing about it. But if you consider that the teaching on the easy access to Sukhavati is known and accepted in every Mahayana regions and most of the schools it can be considered as orthodox as consciousness-only, except that unlike Yogacara the Pure Land teaching is still alive everywhere.

Tell that to Shinran who probably never heard of Christianity.

Was Shinran a criminal? Or his followers? He talked about realising that one is a prthagjana, a common person, nothing special. Yes, on one hand it is questionable to tell morally unstable people can gain a definitely high birth and be assured of enlightenment. But on the other side, from the point of saving sentient beings unlimitedly, the system of buddha-lands allows the possibility of Amita's land and vows, therefore it is natural to exist for everyone.

There are three trainings: ethics (in Chinese literally precepts), samadhi and wisdom. They form a tripod. There is no wisdom without samadhi and no samadhi without ethics/precepts. Anyone who tells you otherwise is suspect.

This is not questioned at all in the Pure Land teachings. And just like in the case of seeing how Zen is related to the Agamas, so one has to study the development of Pure Land thought from visualisation practices to recitation. Also note that it is on in Japan, because of Honen, that they stick to recitation. In other lineages there's no exclusiveness.

I still stand by my original assertion that our shitty Saha world here is the optimal place to attain enlightenment as the Vimalakirti-sutra outlines.

The Vimalakirti Sutra also says that monks with parajika offenses are OK to stay in the sangha, that doing meditation is not sitting at the root of a tree, that a buddha needs no food, etc. And I'm not questioning the Vimalakirti Sutra here, it has been quoted regularly by those who think there is only a mental buddha-land to be realised and no such thing as outer buddha-land, so it is actually a usual source of dispute.

On the other hand, the later Chan thinkers who spoke of cultivating the Pure Land within make some sense to me. I just don't like this idea of putting your liberation on the line and waiting until you drop dead in the hopes of having someone else save you from suffering.

No need to wait, Chan goes fine with Pure Land, so you can attain buddhahood even today, if you want, but the thing is, people usually don't just become buddhas immediately. So if you can't actually do Chan, why not go to the Pure Land to finish the path in an easier and safer way? The Pure Land school itself has many different practices one can use and attain different levels of samadhis, etc. But at the same time it is a path for those too who have trouble spending three months on a retreat, or avoiding breaking certain precepts.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 18th, 2010 at 8:54 PM
Title: Re: Pure lands....why?
Content:
Aemilius said:
"Getting away from your karma",  is not so at all.  As  has been said earlier depending on your mass of virtue or your mass of evil you may have to spend 500 years or 3000 years ....  in isolation in Sukhavati. All this time you will hear only the Dharma. Only after this period of solitary meditation will you be granted the full citizenship in the Land of Bliss. What prison on earth can equal with that ??!!

Astus wrote:
Actually, the Contemplation Sutra says that on the middle lowest birth one spends six kalpas in the lotus, on the lowest lowest it is twelve great kalpas.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 18th, 2010 at 7:35 PM
Title: Re: International Order of Buddhist Ministers
Content:
Astus wrote:
Well, as Yonten says, there is this hindrance that those who are somewhat familiar with Tibetan or Zen teachings think that teachers must be from a lineage of (enlightened) masters and that Buddhism is not something one can simply study and practice but that meditation is the essential way and to teach it there's a need for authorisation by a guru. This is a strong preconception indeed.

I, personally, like the idea of training Dharma teachers. There is a need for people who actually know what the sutras and shastras contain and share it with those who find it difficult to spend time studying. Also it is a good way to make Buddhism more accessible to a larger audience. My question is only of the quality of the training.

A good book with a trans-traditional view is Joseph Goldstein's "One Dharma", even if it is a rather introductory level.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 18th, 2010 at 4:32 PM
Title: Re: Pure lands....why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"There is a kind of theodicy in what you propose: if a Buddha has the ability to pluck someone out of our shitty world and transport them to a Pure Land, why wait until the death of the individual? Why does it not happen now?"

That problem would occur if (1) buddhas could save anyone only on their own and if (2) there were no conditions for attaining birth. But none of that is found here. Angulimala could attain enlightenment even though he was a serial killer - you have no objections here I guess. It could happen because of the Buddha's work and that Angulimala changed his mind. Attaining birth in the Pure Land is possible because of Amita Buddha's work and because one changes his mind. This turning from samsara toward the Pure Land is the essential component called faith. In concept it is no different from the story of the dog ascetic. It is not about being taken out of samsara, it is not a theistic salvation like what many mistakes it for, but it is about harmonising the mind with the conditions brought to reality by Amita Buddha. So the metaphor of meeting one's parent after many years.

"It also potentially eradicates the basis of morality because even if you're a horrible wretched person who has murdered and raped thousands you still get away from your karma by virtue of Amitabha's vow. I think it was Shinran who proposed that even evil wicked people get saved just by uttering Namu Amida Butsu."

It's never been the idea that Pure Land is for the morally wicked people - this is again mistaking it for Christian salvation. The big thing here is that it is available for prthagjanas, non-enlightened beings. The morality part comes in only as a secondary aspect, saying that non-enlightened beings don't have the perfect moral conduct as aryas do. Therefore some Pure Land teachers said it's not a big problem if one cannot abide by the precepts in every situation. Like what Honen says here:

Q: Is it a sin to drink sake (Japanese rice wine)?
A: Definitely you shouldn’t drink, but, you know, it’s the way of the world.

Morally base people usually don't care at all about religion so it's not a common thing if somebody truly considers enlightenment. Because it shouldn't be forgot that the Pure Land is a way to enlightenment, to buddhahood, and nothing else. So yes, whatever person one might be, it is possible to attain birth, just as it is possible to attain sudden enlightenment. This doesn't undermine the meaning of morality but rather it is a skilful means that can be used by those in unfortunate circumstances.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 17th, 2010 at 9:53 PM
Title: Re: Pure lands....why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Hi Huseng,

1. It is not just the scriptures themselves but also the Pure Land tradition's many outstanding teachers that should be noted here. And while I may be inclined to agree that Shinran's is an extreme position (but not unorthodox), others (from Zhiyi to Honen) are unequivocal in viewing the Pure Land as a place where people can attain enlightenment certainly. The sutras discussing Sukhavati can be considered neyartha, which makes little difference nevertheless, as it is obviously another of the skilful means. Some call even the prajnaparamita sutras neyartha anyway.

2. It is not the person's karma that is important, that's what other-power is about, being escorted to the Pure Land by Amita Buddha, saved by the vow, even if one has hellish karma. It is self-power where the karma matters in getting to a buddha-land.

3. Guanyin resides in Sukhavati, isn't her the best master in compassion? Also, one can move freely to millions of other lands. Two other reasons can be how wisdom is inseparable from compassion and the way practices like the immeasurables and lojong work.

4. Power is ascribed only to Amita Buddha himself and his vows, and as far as I know, buddhas having powers is not against the law of causality. Also, the whole concept of being born through buddha-remembrance is affirming causality and not denying or contradicting it.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 17th, 2010 at 8:13 PM
Title: Re: Is there any rule to prostrations?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here you can learn the Chinese form:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asjdzpCARXk " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYaxJj_opt4 " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 17th, 2010 at 2:46 PM
Title: Re: Pure lands....why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nenbutsu itself is not the cause of enlightenment per se but the cause of birth. These are two different things. It's like bodhicitta is not the cause of buddhahood but the cause to enter the path to buddhahood. Although in some sense, as you can find in the Avatamsaka Sutra, bodhicitta can be called even equal to enlightenment. Also, you may not accept that there is a Pure Land which is in fact a perfect place, a perfect environment conducive to enlightenment, but that is not so in the sutras.

Here you can find Honen's outline of the Pure Land path, where first one has to get a firm establishment in the nenbutsu and after that may take up auxiliary practices:

http://www.jsri.jp/English/Honen/TEACHINGS/senchaku/process.html


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 12th, 2010 at 3:32 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body - Why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sherab,

Yes, good point. And explains why I ask the importance of doing that with the body made of the four elements. It rots away after death anyway if not cremated or eaten by animals.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 11th, 2010 at 6:17 PM
Title: Re: Pure lands....why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ron,

"Can we reach enlightenment solely through that means without as is mentioned earlier in sutra quoted..without concentration focus and certain qualities developed, just by saying some words, being faithful and devoted and expecting to become enlightened."

It is true, one doesn't become enlightened simply by repeating Amita Buddha's name and having faith in his vows. And it is not enlightenment that is the immediate consequence of that but birth in Sukhavati. Then it is in Sukhavati that one practices the paramitas etc. and attains enlightenment. This compared to going to the monastery. Before being within the monastery one wishes to go there and so requests his admissin. After obtaining access one can practice in better circumstances than in a lay life. Is this so difficult to comprehend?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 11th, 2010 at 5:04 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body - Why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sherab,

It was clear you had replied to that.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 11th, 2010 at 3:34 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body - Why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sherab,

I didn't equate subtle body with rainbow body. Regarding ignorance what you said was what we have everywhere in Buddhism, so why say Dzogchen is any different on this point? And while there are many traditions they share the view of what to be free from and to attain liberation. I brought up other Vajrayana schools only as a convenient reference point for comparison. And again, it is quite a specific and not a general question I'd like to investigate here, ie. the rainbow body's significance and its uniqueness.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 10th, 2010 at 5:11 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body - Why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sherab,

"Dzogchen explains that the nature of reality is beyond the physical and the mental and how the physical and mental phenomena appear from ignorance. The practice of Dzogchen is the reversal of that process. Other systems of Buddhist practice are based on a different take on the appearing of the physical and mental phenomena and that is reflected in their system of practice. Since the bases of practice are different, the results will be different."

I recognise the difference between Vajrayana's subtle body teaching and the common Mahayana lacking that. But to say that according to Dzogchen everything appears from ignorance while others say differently, well, what about dependent origination then? If Dzogchen were so radically different from general Buddhism that it had a different basis with different result it'd mean it is not even Buddhism. But to me it seems that all the Buddhist schools say that "from ignorance appears formations". But this has little to do with the rainbow body's actual relevance, I think. It's enough to compare Dzogchen with the other Vajrayana systems where they don't take the rainbow body as the ultimate achievement.

"Hence, I don't see why there could not be subtle differences within the supreme enlightenment of a Buddha as explained in Dzogchen."

It's not a question about the superiority of Dzogchen itself that I've asked but the reason for rainbow body being more special than perfect enlightenment understood by any other tradition, like Mahamudra.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 10th, 2010 at 4:49 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body - Why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Narraboth,

"If you don't think rainbow body is better, it doesn't matter; but you can't deny it's a special thing which other methods can't do, can you?"

If it is about dissolving the body into rainbow light, well, I suppose it is covered by the magical techniques yogis, spirits and gods have. If it is realising the emptiness of the form aggregate that is found in the fundamental teachings. But as it is a combination of the two certainly it is a unique Dzogchen thing.

"Now you are saying it's special, but what's the good of it? What kind of answer do you expect from people who are obviously not rainbow bodies? At best we can only tell you things from tantra, from commentaries, from great masters' words, right? If you are not satisfied about that, what else can we offer??"

Maybe I've missed it but saw only a couple of quotes from teachers and nothing from tantras or commentaries. Also, it is not irrelevant what one quotes. If I cited the Cakrasamvara or the Vairocanabhisambodhi Tantra how would that help? Even the Kulayaraja Tantra would be useless here as it doesn't discuss the rainbow body, iirc.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, August 9th, 2010 at 6:12 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body - Why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dear Kalden,

I've been reading through this discussion and while the double meaning of rainbow body was pointed to by Pema Rigdzin the reason behind the importance of attaining jalu phowa chenpo was not clarified to me. Like, one can tell the difference between the attributes and abilities of an arhat and a buddha according to different traditions, or the different results of practices like the four immeasurables and breath awareness.

So, it is an option that one just admits not knowing the answer which has been stated here a few times worded as "we're small, this is difficult". But I assume those who care to argue against other methods know a lot more than that about rainbow body and how actually it is an unsurpassed attainment.

I'm not a Dzogchen follower, it is simply my interest in Dzogchen teachings that made me bring up this question here. Also, I think, it is good to know what actually is meant by the different schools when they claim to have the best of the best method, for sure I want to know the best method too.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, August 8th, 2010 at 3:36 AM
Title: Re: Movie - Zen - The Life of Dogen Zenji
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is a great film, I recommend it to everyone.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 6th, 2010 at 8:16 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body - Why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Pema Rigdzin,

Oh, so the rainbow body at death and in life are different. Or is it the case that jalu phowa chenpo is a name for the 4th vision's result?

Found this (Longchen Nyingthig of the Ancient Ones Tradition by Ven. Khenpo Namdrol Rinpoche):

"There are two kinds of rainbow body: the general rainbow body, where  the body dissolves completely into light, and the ʻRainbow Body of the Great Transferenceʼ, Jalu Phowa Chenpo, where the ordinary body is transformed into a  rainbow-like body and the individual lives for centuries for as long as they can beneﬁt beings, appearing to them from time to time. Such was the case with both Vimalamitra and Guru Rinpoche."

So it is a change of body then from physical to light in order that they can stay here longer. An interesting note here is for instance what we find in the Mahaparinibbana Sutta that the Buddha could have stayed for more than a kalpa if asked so. Again, this phenomenon that one could stay as a quasi-immortal by changing the nature of the body is a bit strange to me for the reasons that a buddha has no limit of emanation bodies and transforming a body to something else sounds pointless then. I'm just trying to make some sense of its importance...


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 6th, 2010 at 5:01 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body - Why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirtu,

Thanks, liked your reply.

"The realized dzogchen practitioner, no longer deluded by apparent substantiality or dualisms such as mind and matter, releases the energy of the elements that compose the physical body at the time of death."

To me from this it would follow that all who are enlightened, realised emptiness, attains a rainbow body. Thus either nobody else is enlightened or the manifestation of rainbow body depends on something else. Maybe tögal practice creates this habit to in the end dissolve the body - just guessing.

Pema Rigdzin,

"togal which explain how wisdom and the 5 elements have yet to be totally liberated in clear light before the fruition of that level of practice"

If it is necessary to dissolve the physical body (except hair and nails, for whatever reason) to attain maximum buddhahood it looks like to me that then being bound by the body can be overcome only through the elimination of the body (arupaloka is a strange thing then to mention).


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, August 6th, 2010 at 3:47 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body - Why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Maybe I've missed something here in Narraboth's answer but I still don't see the use of dissolving the physical body into rainbow lights besides its obvious miraculous nature that can inspire faith. Also, if we go into the land of wonders, bodhisattvas are capable of all kinds of magic transforming themselves into virtually anything, including buddhas. And that ability is available to a large number of gods, demons and yogis too. So, again, what is so special about the rainbow body that it can be an argument for the superiority of dzogchen?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 5th, 2010 at 6:43 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow Body - Why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kalden,

As Heart said, it's something else I've raised here as a question.

Narraboth,

You say with a rainbow body it's easier to help many beings. But if one dies the flesh and bones are left behind and there is not limit for emanation bodies whether one has a human body here or not. That's why I ask what extra rainbow body has.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, August 5th, 2010 at 3:20 PM
Title: Rainbow Body - Why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I hear in arguments for the superiority of Dzogchen that it includes the possibility of attaining the rainbow body. Frankly, besides that it sounds cool, I don't see the point of it at all. It might be a great miracle to see someone's body vaporise with colourful lights, but beyond that what? Realisation of the 3/4 bodies are inherent in awareness so it is not the case that buddhahood is at stake. Then why the fuss?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 4th, 2010 at 3:17 AM
Title: Bankei vs Hakuin
Content:
Astus wrote:
To this day all of Rinzai Zen is an heir of Hakuin's understanding of the path to liberation, while the Zen of Bankei has ended with the master's death who left no descendants. In the West the image of Zen is substantially formed by Hakuin's teachings thanks to DT Suzuki, the Sanbo Kyodan teachers, and others. Even in the Kwan Um School of Zen, nominally a Korean lineage, they use a koan curriculum.

The teachings of Bankei and Hakuin look very much the opposite of each other. Bankei focused only on the Unborn Buddha Mind and regarded everything else secondary, including precepts and meditation. Hakuin set up a rigorous training program with many levels that requires extreme discipline and endurance. According to Bankei it is quite easy to realise the true nature and apply it to everyday life. Hakuin set up high standards where students are pushed deeper and deeper into investigating the stories of former masters. Bankei talks in an open way about the buddha-mind and its use while Hakuin practically avoids spelling it out and he uses "koan language".

While both Zen teachers experienced hardships in strenuous zazen they came up with contradictory solutions. In brief, for Bankei it is about remaining buddha, for Hakuin it is about becoming buddha again and again.

What do you think:
Is Bankei's "Fushou Zen" (不生禅 - Unborn Zen) too easy to be true?
Is Hakuin's "Koan Zen" too systematic to be called Zen?
Which one would you call traditional?
What could be the reason for Bankei's demise and Hakuin's success in terms of their teachings' spread?
Can these be viewed as complementary forms of Zen?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, August 4th, 2010 at 2:09 AM
Title: Re: Pure lands....why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't see how it is possible to investigate something when there's already a prejudice against it. The attractiveness of the Pure Land path has always been in its easiness compared to other methods. Notable teachers in China, like Huiyuan (6th c.) and Shandao (7th c.), argued that even a prthagjana can attain birth in the Pure Land. It is understandable that Westerners confuse this long standing and orthodox Buddhist tradition with theism, but actually it tells more about their cultural background rather than the understanding of this teaching. No wonder that while it is the most popular in East Asia those of the Western cultures show little interest in it.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 3rd, 2010 at 5:28 PM
Title: Re: Pure lands....why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ron,

Yes, that sutra says one day, the Larger Amita Sutra says 10 times reciting the name is enough, and the Contemplation Sutra says that even if one has committed the five grave sins but recites only 10 times that person will be born in Sukhavati.

Your question is about the reason for choosing the Pure Land path above all. The reasons for that are what I've given already. Here are some quotes for you from two important masters.

http://www.jodo.org/about_hs/ho_life.html, founder of the Japanese Pure Land School wrote,

"Reciting the nembutsu does not come from studying and understanding its meaning. There is no other reason or cause by which we can utterly believe in attaining birth in the Pure Land than the nembutsu itself. Reciting the nembutsu and believing in birth in the Pure Land naturally gives rise to the three minds (sanjin) and the four modes of practice (shishu). If I am withholding any deeper knowledge beyond simple recitation of the nembutsu, then may I lose sight of the compassion of Shakyamuni and Amida Buddha and slip through the embrace of Amida's original vow. Even if those who believe in the nembutsu study the teaching which Shakyamuni taught his whole life, they should not put on any airs and should sincerely practice the nembutsu, just as an illiterate fool, a nun or one who is ignorant of Buddhism." ( http://www.jodo.org/teachings/teachings02.html )

http://www.answers.com/topic/yin-kuang, considered to be the 13th Chinese patriarch of the Pure Land School wrote,

"Rebirth in the Western Land thus requires, ﬁrst of all, deep Faith and fervent Vows. Without these conditions, even if you were to cultivate, you could not obtain a response from Amitabha Buddha. You would merely reap the blessings of the human and celestial realms and sow the seeds of liberation in the future. Anyone who fulﬁlls the conditions of Faith and Vows is assured of rebirth in the Pure Land. When Elder Master Yung Ming stated that “out of ten thousand who cultivate Pure Land, ten thousand will achieve rebirth,” he was referring to those with full Faith and Vows." (Pure Land Zen, p. 37)

"It does not matter that you have not read the sutras widely. Without fully understanding Pure Land teachings, even if you deeply understand the entire Buddhist canon and have awakened completely to Self-Mind, it will take you untold eons to fulﬁll your original Vow to escape the cycle of Birth and Death. Buddha Recitation is the panacea for all diseases." (Pure Land Zen, p. 43)

"You should know that even the Dharma Body Bodhisattvas [i.e., the higher level Bodhisattvas] must rely on the power of the Buddhas – not to mention ordinary beings such as ourselves, who are full of karmic obstructions. Who are we to keep weighing the pros and cons of our own strength, while failing to seek the Buddhas’ help? Our words may be lofty, but upon reﬂection, the accompanying actions are low and wanting! The diﬀerence between other-power and self-power is as great as the heavens and the abyss!" (Pure Land Zen, p. 61)


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 3rd, 2010 at 3:14 AM
Title: Re: Pure lands....why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ron,

I haven't studied what Tibetan teachers say of the Pure Land path but I did some learning on the East Asian part where this is a central form of practice and masters throughout more than a thousand years have engaged in interpreting the relevant sutras and treatises. What I told you about it reflects the Pure Land School's teaching of East Asia and all can be backed up by the appropriate sutras and commentaries. But if you doubt the words of the Buddha it's your own business.

"Again, Shariputra, all sentient beings born in the Land of Utmost Bliss dwell in the Stage of Non-retrogression. Many of them are in the Stage of Becoming a Buddha after One More Life. Their number is so great that it is beyond reckoning; it can only be described as innumerable, unlimited and incalculable.
"Shariputra, those sentient beings who hear of that land should aspire to be born there. Why? Because they will be able to meet such sages of supreme virtue. Shariputra, one cannot attain birth in that land with few roots of goodness or a small stock of merit. Shariputra, if a good man or woman who hears of Amida Buddha holds fast to his Name even for one day, two days, three, four, five, six or seven days with a concentrated and undistracted mind, then, at the hour of death, Amida Buddha will appear before them with a host of holy ones. Consequently, when their life comes to an end, the aspirants' minds will not fall into confusion and so they will be born immediately in the Land of Utmost Bliss of Amida Buddha. Shariputra, perceiving these benefits, I say: All sentient beings who hear this teaching should aspire to birth in that land." ( http://www12.canvas.ne.jp/horai/amida-sutra.htm

"You say that the Stage of Non-retrogression is extremely difficult to enter, requiring a long period of practice, and ask me if there is a path of easy practice whereby you can attain this stage quickly. These are words of a cowardly and contemptible man, and not those of a brave man with a strong aspiration. If, however, you insist on hearing from me about this method of practice, I will explain it to you.
There are innumerable modes of entry into the Buddha's teaching. Just as there are in the world difficult and easy paths - travelling on foot by land is full of hardship and travelling in a boat by sea is pleasant - so it is among the paths of the bodhisattvas. Some exert themselves diligently, while others quickly enter Non-retrogression by the easy practice based on faith." ( http://www12.canvas.ne.jp/horai/igyohon.htm )


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, August 3rd, 2010 at 2:08 AM
Title: Re: Pure lands....why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Ron,

Consider the followings:

1. After birth in Sukhavati enlightenment is 100% sure.
2. Birth there depends only on buddha-remembrance, with that as a condition birth is assured.
3. This human world is full of distractions and false teachings, in Sukhavati there's none of that.
4. In this world it is very difficult to find even a good teacher, in Sukhavati there is a living buddha and access to innumerable others.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, August 2nd, 2010 at 7:38 PM
Title: Re: Pure lands....why?
Content:
Astus wrote:
There are many buddha-lands around but I guess this is about Sukhavati as it is the most popular. So why go to there instead of, well, what? If you are enlightened on the level of a non-regressing bodhisattva and above it is of course not an issue where you are going to be born. Otherwise this life can be the last in the next 100 asankhyeya kalpas that you spend above the three lower realms. And this is just one reason. Another is to ponder for a bit on the fact that you've spent uncountable lives in samsara already and couldn't get free.

The Pure Land teachings don't deny the validity of other teachings. What they say is that while other methods are difficult this is easy. Other teachings need people of high abilities while the Pure Land path works for everyone. The Pure Land teaching is a skilful means of the compassionate buddhas because there is nobody excluded while other ways usually are for monks. Also with the Pure Land method one is assured of perfect enlightenment while on other paths it is easy to go astray. In Sukhavati it is easy to practice, one has buddhas and bodhisattvas as his teacher and there is no suffering at all. Compare that to this place where it is hard to find a teacher and almost impossible to tell who is enlightened and who is not.

These are some of the reasons that so many aspire for birth in the Pure Land of Amita Buddha in many Mahayana schools from Tibet to Japan.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 21st, 2010 at 10:16 PM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

Nobody forced monks to get married. They did it themselves. There are still some in Japan who are not married and keep at least the bodhisattva precepts as in the Brahmajala Sutra.

And about discussing another's failure to maintain the precepts, the 5th minor bodhisattva precept says:
5. On Not Teaching Repentance
If a disciple of the Buddha should see any being violate the Five Precepts, the Eight Precepts, the Ten Precepts, other prohibitions, or commit any of the Seven Cardinal Sins or any offense which leads to the Eight Adversities -- any violations of the precepts whatever -- he should counsel the offender to repent and reform.
Hence, if a Bodhisattva does not do so and furthermore continues to live together in the assembly with the offender, share in the offerings of the laity, participate in the same Uposatha ceremony and recite the precepts -- while failing to bring up that person's offense, enjoining him to repent -- the disciple commits a secondary offense.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 21st, 2010 at 6:02 AM
Title: Re: Silk in Vajrayana, and the bodhisattva practice.
Content:
heart said:
So please offer synthetic katas, dress in synthetic cloths and eat food that cause as little misery to other sentient beings as possible. Tell others why you do it but keep your mind free from judgment.

Astus wrote:
Synthetic textiles are usually made of polyester which is made of PET. So if we say that silk is not OK because worms died for it, what about environmental impact? Just to show how hard - practically impossible - to remove the disadvantages without producing other side effects. But if we keep thinking like this we eventually realise that through breathing we kill tiny animals and then end up like the Jains.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 21st, 2010 at 2:25 AM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

Ven. Shengyan did the same.

Getting the Buddha Mind said:
The first half year of my retreat, I emphasized repentance prostration  to undo my heavy karma. First I prostrated  through the Lotus Sutra; later, the Avatamsaka  Sutra. After reading a character, I would recite  a mantra and then prostrate. The mantras were "Na mo fa-hua hui-shang fo p'u-'sa" for the Lotus Sutra, ("Homage to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of the Lotus Assembly") and "Na mo hua-yen hai-hui fo p'u-sa" for the Avatamsaka Sutra. ("Homage to the Buddhas  and Bodhisattvas of the ocean of wisdom of the Avatamsaka Sutra.") This I did through the whole sutra.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, July 20th, 2010 at 3:05 AM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

I've raised no question about the validity or importance of monastic training. Being a renunciate is different from being a lay person in certain aspects that's why I made no comparison between them. The Taego Order provides a way for interested people to learn some Dharma and be certified by that organisation as a teacher. Suppose the Nalanda University is finished and one gets a certificate from there it will be another kind of authentication by another organisation. Most probably a Nalanda degree will be more prestigious than one from IBS-Austria.

Still, I think that online education should not be looked down. It has its purpose and function. Definitely it is not a monastic training, not even a retreat. But if the materials taught are well organised it can be pretty high class which results in educated teachers.

First there was the oral tradition, then came writing and printing, now we have the internet. Gradually the spreading of information became easier and easier. This results in open source and zero control. Quite similar to freedom of religion. Everyone has the legal right to start a Buddhist church and do it in whatever way they like it. No king, no emperor to control it. There are already so many Buddhist organisations from very old to very new. We may take any side, join any group. The so called Chan Sect was a marginal group of different people that could eventually rise to prominence through lot of scheming and political connections so that today we say Chan is traditional and orthodox. A virtual academy today, a world religion tomorrow.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 19th, 2010 at 8:01 PM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Unknown said:
to what extent have you lived in a monastery?

Astus wrote:
None, as you know. And I've excluded monastic training from what I said because its of a different nature.

Unknown said:
That's just typical pedantic ways of thinking in Japan where seniority and certificates neatly configure the hierarchy.

Astus wrote:
You know the Vinaya rule about hierarchy in the monastic community, it's based on seniority and moral integrity.

Unknown said:
If someone told me they had a MA Degree in Vajrayana from an online tantra course I'd assume they'd been had by a scam.

Astus wrote:
Hm, so you don't believe in the internet but it's OK if somebody had the teachings (or terma) from Vajrapani/Manjusri/Avalokita/etc.?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 19th, 2010 at 1:42 AM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't see online seminaries, or even university courses as a problem. Besides a monastic education other, common forms of tuition are mastered by the student alone and the presence of teachers are only for convenience's sake. Living as a monk is a change of life form, similar to joining the army or other specific groups who create their own society within a society. But if it is about learning, online materials are as good as books and lectures.

The quality of teachers are not guaranteed by attending a seminary or a university. Moral integrity is not assured by a teacher-student relationship. This culture likes certificates, diplomas and qualifications. Papers to measure one's competence in a field of knowledge. But as we know, test results reflect only a temporary knowledge of answers. Religious certificates are not beyond this paradigm of competence. Jorn Borup's "Japanese Rinzai Zen Buddhism - Myoshinji, a living religion" gives a good look of an elaborate church hierarchy codified in a "big book of rules". Just to give an example, to become a "second grade teacher" (held by 44.9% of priests) requires: 1) have graduated from the Buddhist studies department at Hanazono University and spent two years in the sōdō, or 2) hold a Ph.D. degree (from any university) and have spent two years in the sōdō, or 3) have graduated from high school and spent seven years in the sōdō, or 4) have graduated from junior high school and spent ten years in the sōdō etc.

We may think that hierarchy is really a "holy order" but that's pretty naive. If it is knowledge and practice that counts, an online course can be as good as attending a seminary. There isn't much control over who can become a school teacher even though they are responsible for educating future generations - not to mention the total lack of criteria for becoming a parent. A Buddhist teacher in the West deals with grown ups most of the time who are supposed to be capable of making their own choices and they have to decide what kind of teacher they want to listen to. Of course, such view of adult men and women are just as idealistic as that of the enlightened masters.

This online seminary gives the basics of Buddhism and looks kosher. I think it produces more people who actively spread the Dharma and that is already wonderful.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 16th, 2010 at 10:48 PM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jikan,

I don't know how much this seminary is at the start but I've known about it for years now.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 16th, 2010 at 5:05 PM
Title: Re: Wives of Siddhartha Gautama II
Content:
Astus wrote:
Asian Buddhists aiming to destroy Western Buddhism? Are you serious? And all this based on how many wives Siddhartha had?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 16th, 2010 at 3:26 PM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

While the situation in Japan may be bad, lay teachers (priests?) are not necessarily a bad thing. In Eastern Orthodox churches it is OK for priests to be married but not the bishops. If Japanese priests are lazy in the spirit it isn't the fault of the system, and I think there are some who are active in teaching Dharma. This Taego system looks good for creating Western teachers who then can gather followers.

Kirtu,

Well, credentials are OK, even better if you get some extra support like a Dharma centre with shiny statues and paintings.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 16th, 2010 at 5:32 AM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jikan, thanks anyway. I guess they'd require some dedication to their teaching which I'm not particularly familiar with (if there's any specifically Taego style). But if they give me a trip to Korea and then give their name so that I start a Buddhist mission in their name. I wouldn't mind doing that.

Kirtu, it is an online seminary so I don't have to by a train ticket, not to mention travelling for 3 hours (which I don't call a short ride) in this hot summer doesn't sound good to me. And I don't really see what new that seminary could teach me.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 16th, 2010 at 2:43 AM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jikan,

They really pay for your trip to Korea? Their seminary costs $1200 for 2 years, so it is not free at all. But if they pay for my trip just to become a Taego priest I'm in. I've always preferred their red kasa (袈裟) instead of Jogye's brown. Do you have some contacts?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 15th, 2010 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Aemilius said:
The deeper meaning is that it has magical properties.  You have to approach it differently. Make a wish, perhaps write it on a paper, with a date, and then bow to the Scripture every morning ( or every evening if that suits better) and offer flowers to the Sutra when you feel like it. You can also copy the sutra, or a chapter from it, with your own hand, and so on...

Astus wrote:
Look into the final chapter of the Vimalakirti Sutra.

Vimalakirti Sutra said:
This King Ratnacchattra honored the Tathagata Bhaisajyaraja and his retinue with many excellent offerings during five short aeons. At the end of this time, the King Ratnacchattra said to his sons, 'Recognizing that during my reign I have worshiped the Tathagata, in your turn you also should worship him.'

"The thousand princes gave their consent, obeying their father the king, and all together, during another five short aeons, they honored the Tathagata Bhaisajyaraja with all sorts of excellent offerings.

"Among them, there was a prince by the name of Candracchattra, who retired into solitude and thought to himself, 'Is there not another mode of worship, even better and more noble than this?'

"Then, by the supernatural power of the Buddha Bhaisajyaraja, the gods spoke to him from the heavens: 'Good man, the supreme worship is the Dharma-worship.'


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 15th, 2010 at 5:06 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Will said:
What would you consider a "deeper meaning"?  What existing meaning do you glean from the sutra so far?

What did you think of Tao Sheng's commentary?

Astus wrote:
By deeper meaning I meant for instance an explanation of its scenes if they give any extra information besides the obvious meaning of "the Buddha compassionately teaches according to faculties", "in the end everyone becomes a buddha" and "Buddha's life is immeasurable".

Daosheng's commentary is interesting on its own but it's very short and doesn't write much about most of the chapters.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 15th, 2010 at 4:23 PM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think this online seminary they provide covers the basics a Western Buddhist should be familiar with. I don't know their level of student support and the options there are for consultation as these where the only extras as the subjects are very much the basics.

Compare it to the official basic training required for ordination in the Jogye Order (Haeinsa Temple Sangha  College’s curriculum for the 2009 (BE 2553) year, http://www.fjdh.com/wumin/HTML/82325.html ):

1st Year: The Buddhist Person I, the Buddhist Person II, Vinaya, Hinayana Buddhism, Abhidharma, History of Indian Buddhism, Understanding Western Philosophy II, Literature I, Literature II, English, Japanese
2nd Year: Understading the Prajnaparamita Sutra (Diamond Sutra, Heart Sutra, Vimila-kirtinirdesa Sutra, 8000 Poems of the Prajnaparamita Sutra, Understanding Avatamska Sutra, Introduction to the Avatamska school, History of Chinese Buddhism, Understanding Western Philosophy II, Literature III, Literature IV
3rd Year: “Awakening faith in the Mahayana,” Shuramgama Sutra, Lotus Sutra, Nirvana Sutra, History of Korean Buddhism, Buddhism Overview I, Buddhism Overview II, Literature V, Buddhist Culture, Buddhist Ceremony
4th Year: Seon Texts (Platform Sutra, Entrance to Sudden Enlightenment, Selected Letters of Master Dahui, Essence of Seon), History of Seon ideology, Buddhism Overview I, Buddhism Overview II, Graduation Thesis

By removing some subjects non-Buddhist subjects it could be a fine training for Westerners interested in Zen as most of the texts used are available in English. It is just a matter of teachers.

An interesting data from BuddhaPia: "As of February 2002, there are thirteen seminaries for bhiksus and five for bhiksunis in which about 350 bhiksus and 631 bhiksunis study, respectively." More http://eng.buddhapia.com/_Service/_ContentView/ETC_CONTENT_2.ASP?pk=0001388149&sub_pk=&clss_cd=0002204375&top_menu_cd=0000000287


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 15th, 2010 at 3:57 PM
Title: Re: Taego Lineage Seminary
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Huifeng,

Ordination happens in Korea.

Unknown said:
Several times a year a new group of graduates travel to South Korea for a temple training program and full Taego ordination with their Korean counterparts.  People are now taking the course from the comfort of their homes in countries throughout Europe and North America.  Ordained ‘Western’ Taego monks travel regularly to stay and train with their brother and sister Taego monks in Korea. They are warmly welcomed as family and as ‘the official representatives of the Taego order outside of Korea.’
http://www.taegozen.net/About_the_Taego_Order_21YW.html

Astus wrote:
But the Taego Order ordains only with the bodhisattva precepts and not the pratimoksa, so it's much like Japanese schools, except that they call them "married monks" to show the difference between "celibate monks" of the Jogye Order who take the full monastic precepts.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 15th, 2010 at 1:56 AM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Will said:
Here is an old commentary by Tao Sheng, which I have not read, but I just may do so.

Astus wrote:
Thanks, I have the book next to my copy of the Lotus Sutra. I also have a shortish commentary by a Tendai nun and I've looked into Nikkyo Niwano's guide too. Still, while I understand its popularity as it's full of big colourful scenes, the "deeper meaning" eludes me.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 14th, 2010 at 9:49 PM
Title: Re: Wives of Siddhartha Gautama II
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't think this monogamous Buddha concept is because of Christian background as we get that story from Theravada. Also, what do you mean by "ethnic buddhists" in this context?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 14th, 2010 at 6:55 PM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Will said:
Astus,

About half of the commentary of Triptaka Master Hsuan Hua on the Lotus is online, maybe perusing it will give you more appreciation of the Lotus Sutra.  In book form all of the commentary is available.

http://cttbusa.org/dfs/dfs_contents.asp " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Astus wrote:
I'm sorry but I haven't met any commentary by Ven. Hsuan Hua that was meaningful to me. Nevertheless, I've just read his commentary for chapter 6 to make sure the situation is the same and it is.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 14th, 2010 at 5:15 AM
Title: Re: Are you able to look through traditions?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think in the following way: the Buddha's teaching can be categorised in three parts: ethics, meditation, insight. Things like dances, rituals, songs, ornaments, etc. fall under the category of ethics. Some of them can be considered bad behaviour and some good behaviour, partially dependent upon precepts and mostly on social norms. This way there is virtually no need to think in terms of culture but rather the Dharma.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, July 14th, 2010 at 4:45 AM
Title: Re: The Lotus Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Maybe I'm missing the correct sources and commentaries (Zhiyi's writings?) but the Lotus Sutra has always been a big question to me. I mean, what is actually so wonderful about it? The text is overloaded with metaphors explaining the same ideas again and again. It is devoid of theoretical and practical explanations and even those few topics it touches are not really the difficult ones or anything unique to this sutra. My knowledge is superficial so I'd love to here people enlightening this subject for me.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 9th, 2010 at 9:21 PM
Title: Re: Inherently immoral actions.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Reading Huseng's response to my objections and Master Huifeng's added comments I have to ask: then what's so new about what Daoxuan says? Inherent evil is not that inherent any more, distinction of inherent and hidden is something that has always been there. So, what can we learn here?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 9th, 2010 at 5:52 AM
Title: Re: Lillian Too's Mahashri Sutra Atrocities
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dear Eric,

I wish you know further disturbing events and may you have peace in mind and be a prosperous translator for the benefit of us all.

My take on translations and publication of Dharma texts is the following. People working with a translation, including correctors, editors, sellers, etc. put their time and energy into it, therefore if it is viewed as work there should be a due wage. But I doubt that there are many who learn dead languages and an alien religion to produce translations that will never make it even to the top thousand list of best sellers, consequently there is not much money in it. It seems to me that those who make translations are either monks or scholars or they do it as non-professionals, like a hobby. Still, if I want to get a book I don't expect it to be for free. On the other hand I don't expect it to be https://www.amazon.com/Aryadevas-Lamp-Integrates-Practices-Caryamelapakapradipa/dp/0975373455/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278624174&sr=1-2, https://www.amazon.com/Flower-Ornament-Scripture-Translation-Avatamsaka/dp/0877739404/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278624241&sr=1-1, http://search.barnesandnoble.com/An-English-Translation-of-Fa-Tsangs-Commentary-on-the-Awakening-of-Faith/Dirck-Vorenkamp/e/9780773463738/?itm=1 or even more USD.

Lewis Lancaster in his speech on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX2f6QHkU-I said the reason why he gives his works available online and why others should follow (because they're already paid by the university and through that the state).

Personally, I don't think there are many who could even make a living by translating Buddhist texts. Then why not make it also available freely online? And if people copy it, all the better. While I understand the concern of big companies losing money because people do copy their products copying sutras is actually something advised by the sutras themselves as a meritorious act. And the sutras said that before people came up with the idea of copyright. Everybody has the right to copy the words of the Buddha! And it is not just a right but a practice, even a duty.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 9th, 2010 at 5:08 AM
Title: Re: Inherently immoral actions.
Content:
Astus wrote:
This looks like a kind of return to Hinayana thinking about inherent qualities, which may be fitting for the Vinaya nevertheless, or not. In Therevada there are 12 akusala cittas and 14 akusala cetasikas, although those are mental things and not acts, but dharmas that are definitely wrong. For as it has always been with karma, only intentional acts count, so unintentional killing and stealing cannot be akusala. And from this it is not that difficult to conceive compassion as a driving intention behind any act which brings us to a new bodhisattva ethics. As a further (and final in terms of Indian Buddhism) development there is the Tantric ethics which can include even murder among its practices. And as a criticism of inherently wrong actions the Jains can be mentioned who try to avoid killing all forms of lives taking the act itself as sinful.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 8th, 2010 at 7:53 PM
Title: Re: Lillian Too's Mahashri Sutra Atrocities
Content:
Astus wrote:
Besides this legal argument about copyright how can the money be any problem? This Mahashri Sutra says, "If anyone should recite this three times, they will be victorious over all disharmonious circumstances. They will become endowed with excellent fortune. They will become endowed with not knowing the exhaustion of wealth." So I guess the translator must have gained a lot more than that. Never exhausting wealth, that could certainly compensate for this trouble with a "stolen" translation.

So, since I'd happily donate millions of dollars to thousands of monasteries, translator groups and charity services, I repeat the mantra three times, just as the Buddha said in the Mahashri Sutra.

SYADYATHEDANA JINIGRINI SARVA ARTHA SADHANI SHASHINA ALAGA SHIMANA NASHAYA SIDDHANATU MANTRA PADEY SVAHA / OM BIGUNI BARAMASU BHAGE SVAHA

SYADYATHEDANA JINIGRINI SARVA ARTHA SADHANI SHASHINA ALAGA SHIMANA NASHAYA SIDDHANATU MANTRA PADEY SVAHA / OM BIGUNI BARAMASU BHAGE SVAHA

SYADYATHEDANA JINIGRINI SARVA ARTHA SADHANI SHASHINA ALAGA SHIMANA NASHAYA SIDDHANATU MANTRA PADEY SVAHA / OM BIGUNI BARAMASU BHAGE SVAHA


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, July 6th, 2010 at 5:51 AM
Title: Re: Do you really think rebirth is realistic?
Content:
shel said:
It's not clear what you mean when you say that there is a mind "besides" the body. Are you saying that mind and body are not interdependent?

Astus wrote:
There are the five sensory perceptions based on the five kinds of physical phenomena. Thus it can be said that the eye-, etc. consciousnesses are dependent on forms, etc. But I can also imagine a form, etc. Isn't that eye-, etc. consciousness?

Nama (mind) and rupa (body) dharmas are interrelated in many cases but not always. From arupa-dhyanas to phowa practices we can see in this life for ourselves how there can be mind without body. And a body without mind, well, that is a corpse.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 5th, 2010 at 5:52 PM
Title: Re: Vinaya
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think you can find a bit more info on the Tibetan Vinaya than the Chinese.

The Tibetan Vinaya: Guide to Buddhist Conduct by Thrangu Rinpoche
Buddhist Monastic Discipline: the Sanskrit Prātimoksạ Sūtras of the Mahāsāmg̣hikas and Mūlasarvāstivādins by Charles S. Prebish
The Sound of Two Hands Clapping: The Education of a Tibetan Buddhist Monk by Georges B. J. Dreyfus
A Clear Differentiation of the Three Codes by Sakya Pandita

Also FPMT has extra sources for those wishing to ordain with them: http://www.fpmt.org/IMI/firstletter.asp

May be of interest:
A Survey of Vinaya Literature by Charles S. Prebish
A brief survey of the Vinaya: Its origin, transmission, and arrangement from the Tibetan point of view with comparisons to the Theravada and Dharmagupta traditions by Bhiksuni Jampa Tsedroen


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, July 5th, 2010 at 3:24 AM
Title: Re: Seeing All Beings as Buddhas.
Content:
Astus wrote:
catmoon,

I can tell you before Master Huifeng appears that throughout the history of Chan there were different interpretations of what buddha-nature stands for. These views and debates were very much interwoven with the general situation in Chinese Buddhism and should not be taken as a strictly and exclusively Chan thing. In Chinese Buddhism from early on the teaching of buddha-nature was taken granted and except for Xuanzang's short-lived attempt to reform that it was accepted in every school. However, that doesn't mean they understood the buddha-nature in the same way, see for instance the debate on whether insentient things are included within buddha-nature or not. Thus I think we can talk about interpretations from "nominal buddha-nature" (as a different expression of emptiness) up to "original enlightenment" (everyone is de facto enlightened). For example, Dogen's problem (Why practice if I'm a buddha?) comes from the original enlightenment view he inherited from the Japanese Tendai school.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 2nd, 2010 at 5:17 PM
Title: Re: Do you really think rebirth is realistic?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Science is about analysing what the five senses may perceive (theoretically). If anyone called karma, God, miracles or psychic powers scientific, well, that's a misuse of the term, just like people calling things Zen which are definitely not. The problem is to think that science is the only form of truth and take unscientific as a synonym for false (positivism).

BTW, if they just agreed that Maitreya bodhisattva inspired Asanga to write it they would have relinquished all attempts to inquire further. Then it wouldn't be science, not even philosophy but religious/superficial acceptance.

Buddhism has its own way of validating things, even has a system for epistemology and yogic analysis. This is something that is a privilege of certain individuals, just like science. If Buddhism wants to be accepted in this secular world it has to prove itself useful for the people in the right position (celebrities, politicians, scientists, etc.). But if that is only meditation, well, it is not connected enough with Buddhism to create a real boom in believers. Dainin Katagiri says in his book (Returning to Silence) that Zen has to become a religion in the eyes of Westerners for temporary fads like therapeutic, stress relief meditation just come and go.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, July 2nd, 2010 at 12:59 AM
Title: Re: Do you really think rebirth is realistic?
Content:
Astus wrote:
While I have no religious background (family&environment) I've been interested in religions since I was 10 and belief in things beyond came naturally. Science and the physicalist view never really touched me although I was certainly influenced through education and culture. Belief in rebirth came to me before I've met Buddhism, so accepting that was no problem.

Another interesting quote from Dazhu Huihai:

有韞光大德問。禪師自知生處否。師曰。未曾死。何用論生。知生即是無生法。無離生法說有無生。祖師云。當生即不生。(X63n1224_p0025b13-15)

Yunguang Dade asked, "Does the Chan master know where he will be born, or not?" The teacher said, "I'm not dead yet. Why discuss birth? Know that birth is in fact the dharma of no birth. Without departing from the birth dharma we state there is no birth. An ancestor teacher said, "Undergoing birth is no birth.""

Ultimately, it's all just words.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 1st, 2010 at 9:42 PM
Title: Re: Lioncity forum
Content:
Astus wrote:
I find it a bit disrespectful to view E-Sangha as a financial asset, an investment. As Anders said, those few ads on the page hardly covered the cost of maintenance. Leo's vision of E-S was really an honest and beautiful one and it could grow big because of his efforts.

Moderation was criticised there by some, mostly those who cared more about the frame than the content. No doubt, I think there were occasionally some justifiable complaints about threads being closed/deleted. But as a long time member there (since 1 Apr 2004) I've found moderation was going OK. And as a moderator there for years (in the General and East Asian areas) I've found that 90% of the job was removing spam and relocating threads opened at a wrong place. The other 10% was people complaining about other people how what others say to them is not OK.

Some may have not realised it but there were many knowledgeable people who stayed because it was a fairly organised place conducive to peaceful discussions. And if there were some - because there were - who didn't want to play by the rules, they were regularly moderated then. Banning was quite rare, and even that was not for ever in some cases.

Anyway, it's better not to get lost in memories and look forward, working on making Dharma Wheel a lively place with enjoyable threads.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 1st, 2010 at 7:47 PM
Title: Re: Collected talks of various Chinese Buddhist Masters
Content:



Astus wrote:
http://www.yogichen.org/index.html


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 1st, 2010 at 7:32 PM
Title: Re: Do you really think rebirth is realistic?
Content:
Astus wrote:
As I've said before on this subject, until people don't realise that there is a mind besides the flesh and blood body it is impossible to comprehend rebirth. While people may go to meditate in different groups it seems to take little effect on actually changing their worldview which would more important than achieving a blissful absorption for a few minutes. Personally I've no doubts about the existence of rebirth.
Here's a little quote:

From the Tsung Ching Record of Hui Hai:

A monk asked, ‘since all the myriad phenomena (dharmas) are nonexistent, the nature of mind should also be nonexistent. just as a bubble having burst can never re-form, so can a person once dead never be reborn, for nothing remains of that person. Where will the nature of that person’s mind be then?’

M ’Bubbles are composed of water. When a bubble bursts, does the water composing it cease to be? Our bodies proceed from our real nature. When we die, why should you say that our nature is no more?’

A: ‘If you maintain there is such a nature, bring it forth and show it to me!’

M: ’Do you believe there will be a morrow?’

A: ‘Yes, certainly.’

M: ‘Bring it forth and show it to me!’

A: ‘There will surely be a morrow, but not just now.’ M: ‘Yes, but its not being just now does not mean that there will be no morrow. You personally do not perceive your own nature, but this does not mean that your nature does not exist. just now, there is before you that which wears a robe, takes food and walks, stands, sits, or reclines, but you do not recognize it (for what it is). You may well be called a stupid and deluded person. If you discriminate between today and tomorrow that is like using your own nature to search for your own nature; you will not perceive it even after myriads of aeons. Yours is a case of not seeing the sun, not of there being no sun.’


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, July 1st, 2010 at 12:33 AM
Title: Re: Dedication to truth
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is a wonder that no one has mentioned prajnaparamita yet. Also truth could be understood as satya, thus we have catvari arya satyani (4NT) and satyadvaya (two truths). But I'd say, unlike in the European tradition, Buddhism works with the personal, rather than the objective aspect, so wisdom instead of truth. ("And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.", "I am the way, the truth, and the life")

The Buddhist concept of truth is not an objective, independent thing or knowledge but something to be realised and has relevance only as far as its realisation happens. On the other hand, the truth in the European view is something outside of us, therefore knowable by all and doesn't require any inner achievement. Or, from a Christian perspective, truth is by grace and something people has to believe in.

Another perspective is truth as correct view. It is the beginning of the path in Buddhism to obtain a correct understanding of the teaching and then eventually realise it. In the European tradition truth is something one attains in the end and completes one's journey (holy grail, scientific truth). Also note that Socrates was a philosopher and not a sage.

A similar phenomenon in Buddhism like the European understanding of truth is the teaching of buddha-nature. Because the full knowledge of buddha-nature is buddhahood, also everyone has it and can realise it. But again, buddha-nature is a personal thing and not an independent one.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 30th, 2010 at 9:37 PM
Title: Re: Celibacy and Health
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

I'm no historian, but afaik such Victorian morals were created in the 19th century and not before. There is a considerable difference between common people having the idea that sex is sinful and renunciates, who willingly joined a monastic order, not getting involved in sensual passions. Also, I haven't heard of Freud et al analysing monks and nuns. Celibacy is a problem if you don't want to refrain from sex, also the feeling of guilt exists only when one does something he considers sinful. The monastic life was actually quite popular in Europe, also in Buddhist countries. And they were a group of intellectual and religious elite. I don't see how their health could have been affected.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 28th, 2010 at 10:12 PM
Title: Re: Being a Buddhist in a Christian society
Content:
Astus wrote:
I live in a European country which naturally has a Christian majority and strong historical ties with the Christian religion. (Our anthem's very first word is "God".) But so far nobody cared whether I'm a Christian, a Jew or a Buddhist - mainly because people around me are mostly not religious at all. Even if I lived in a small village where people are naturally more traditional in case I wouldn't go to the church on Sundays it wouldn't really be a social downfall although there might be exceptions.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 25th, 2010 at 7:22 PM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thanks Magnus, you're very informative.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 25th, 2010 at 4:42 PM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
I've been reading some Bardo Thodol texts lately and it has a Padmasambhava treasure text about introducing the true nature of mind. It is quite positive about stating that such a realisation is the highest, all inclusive method, so no need for anything else. But that's just something I wanted to mention.

The other thing is that it was brought up how the nature of mind is introduced even before the development stage beings. In the Vairocanabhisambodhi Sutra (in Tibetan tradition: a text of the outer carya tantras) in the first chapter the nature of mind is introduced and then all the mantra-mandala-ritual stuff begins from chapter two. So if Mahamudra/Atiyoga is a special practice on its own right, I guess it can be practised without other practices.

The Buddha said, “Lord of Mysteries, it is in one’s own mind that one seeks bodhi and omniscience. Why? Because its original nature is pure. The mind is neither within nor without, nor can the mind be apprehended between the two. Lord of Mysteries, the Tathāgata, worthy [of worship] and perfectly and fully awakened, is neither blue nor yellow nor red nor white nor crimson nor the color of crystal, neither long nor short nor round nor square, neither bright nor dark, and neither male nor female nor neuter. Lord of Mysteries, the mind is not of the same nature as the realm of desire, nor is it of the same nature as the realm of form, nor is it of the same nature as the realm of non-form, nor is it of the same nature as the destinies of gods, nāgas, yakṣas, gandharvas, asuras, garuḍas, kiṃnaras, mahoragas, humans, or non-humans. Lord of Mysteries, the mind does not reside in the realm of the eyes, nor does it reside in the realms of the ears, nose, tongue, body, or mind, and neither is it visible, nor does it manifest itself.
“Why? [Because] the mind, which has the characteristic of empty space, is free from all differentiation and nondifferentiation. Why is that? That whose nature is the same as empty space is identical to the mind, and that whose nature is the same as the mind is identical to bodhi. In this manner, Lord of Mysteries, the three entities of mind, the realm of empty space, and bodhi are without duality. They have compassion as their root and are fulfilled by the pāramitā of expedient means. For this reason, Lord of Mysteries, I teach the dharmas in this manner so as to make the multitudes of bodhisattvas purify the bodhi-mind and know their mind.
“Lord of Mysteries, if a man of [good] family or a woman of [good] family wishes to know bodhi, they should know their own mind in this manner. Lord of Mysteries, how is one to know one’s own mind? It cannot, namely, be apprehended by seeking it in distinctions, or colors, or shapes, or external objects; or in form or sensation, ideation, volition, or consciousness; or in ‘I’ or ‘mine’; or in the grasper (i.e., subject) or the grasped (i.e., object); or in the pure; or in the [eighteen] elements [of existence] or [the twelve] sense fields; or in any other distinctions.
(Vairocanabhisambodhi Sutra, ch. 1, tr. RW Giebel)


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 25th, 2010 at 1:37 AM
Title: Re: Sun
Content:
Astus wrote:
Actually, this kind of doubting normally accepted events is a good example of how even apparently real things are questioned by some. And then people can start arguing about it. But where does that lead to? Nowhere, besides some bad feelings. Believing in the moon landing or not has no effect on one's progress to enlightenment, nor on being a better person. But indulging in rows and generating an angry mind certainly has a negative effect.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 23rd, 2010 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Huseng said:
There are plenty of living examples of bhiksu and bhiksuni who are celibate and mentally stable.

Medical literature can say one thing, but the masses of healthy and perky monks and nuns in the Buddhist world prove that people can be celibate and live fine.

Astus wrote:
And celibacy is nothing new in the Western countries either.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 23rd, 2010 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: Sun
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm saying that there are different views. The question, in my view, is not their truth but their effect, their function.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 22nd, 2010 at 4:16 PM
Title: Re: Sun
Content:
Astus wrote:
Anyone can cover the Sun with just one finger. Is it a miracle? No. Science has its own cosmology which is not the same as Buddhist cosmology. Yogis can snatch away the Sun and turn around the Moon. Scientists can explain to you the Solar wind and build rockets to land on the Moon.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 15th, 2010 at 2:28 AM
Title: Re: What Makes A Real Man?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Actually that post by Ven. Dhammika is a really interesting recension of John Powers' book "A Bull of a Man". Go and read it!


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 12th, 2010 at 4:14 AM
Title: Re: A Critique of "Buddhism Without Beliefs"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

That is a good and timely question. I don't think we should reinvent the wheel. The Buddha taught a gradual path and at that time rebirth was not accepted by everyone in India. Here's a little intro to his http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/index.html. So it has (1) generosity, (2) virtue, (3) heaven, (4) drawbacks, (5) renunciation and (6) the four noble truths. In the Tibetan traditions this approach manifests as the http://www.kagyu.org/kagyulineage/buddhism/dha/dha00.php: (1) precious human birth, (2) death and impermanence, (3) causality and karma, (4) drawbacks of samsara; after this may come the four noble truths and awakening the bodhicitta.

I say that the above methods are very well usable today too. But to answer your question specifically, I say it is best to learn vipassana meditation. Because through that one can learn to actually observe the meaning of the above teachings, and of course a lot more. By seeing for himself that the Buddha's teaching is true it is easy to accept even so called supernatural things too.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 12th, 2010 at 3:39 AM
Title: Re: A Critique of "Buddhism Without Beliefs"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Yogicfire,

When I first read that by Rev. Shohaku Okumura I was pretty much amazed how can one be a Dharma teacher and in the Zen tradition without being clear about elementary teachings like rebirth and dependent origination. If that is not comprehended how could one ever think of understanding such a highly sophisticated text as the Shobogenzo? Perhaps I should reconsider my views about the Dharma Ending Age.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 12th, 2010 at 3:32 AM
Title: Re: A Critique of "Buddhism Without Beliefs"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

I think that there are already so many books in English to study, starting with the Pali Canon through Madhyamaka and Yogacara, up to Zen and Vajrayana, that if one cares to study them, a thorough understanding of Buddhism is available without learning a second language. Plus translations are coming in a better quality and higher speed. So I don't find language barrier a valid excuse.

At the same time, it is unrealistic to expect the majority of Buddhists and to be Buddhists to go deep into complicated teachings. But those who want to be Dharma teachers should definitely do that. Then those Dharma teachers can come up with a teaching acceptable to a larger audience. This is something already in progress, western teachers educating western students. But education is not so highly valued in Buddhism as in other parts of western society. Silent retreats, empowerments and koan interviews sell a lot better than a Sunday school on the Awakening of Mahayana Faith.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 12th, 2010 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: A Critique of "Buddhism Without Beliefs"
Content:
Huseng said:
You ever actually sit down and read Dogen?

Astus wrote:
Don't you know the popular Zen book's title: "Sit Down and Shut Up" - not "Sit Down and Think" or "Sit Down and Read" or "Sit Down and Study". Just shut up and sit Properly. And this kind of utilitarian/practical attitude makes belief unnecessary, thus people can think whatever they want, until they can sit in the Correct Zazen Posture it is Zen, it is Buddhahood.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 11th, 2010 at 2:47 PM
Title: Re: A Critique of "Buddhism Without Beliefs"
Content:
Astus wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Points_Unifying_the_Therav%C4%81da_and_the_Mah%C4%81y%C4%81na


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 11th, 2010 at 12:20 AM
Title: Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Aemilius,

The above is Seung Sahn's view of mantras which I partially agree with, but you don't have to.

I say partially because while it is true that "power words" are made by imagination, imagination is governed by many factors. So there is a difference between repeating Coca-Cola, repeating a title of a sutra, and repeating a mantra that you received special teachings and empowerments for. The difference is in that you know Coca-Cola is nothing even related to Buddhism, while a secret mantra is very special so you have lot of faith in it. But, and this is what Seung Sahn says, if you can have the same faith in Coca-Cola it works the same way as the mantra.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 10th, 2010 at 11:38 PM
Title: Re: A Critique of "Buddhism Without Beliefs"
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3025&Itemid=244


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 10th, 2010 at 8:10 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Certainly, enlightenment in this life may not be so important for many. Still, and not to contradict you but to show what I call the Zen POV, here are two quotes.

Linji said,
"As I see it, there's no Buddha, no living beings, no long ago, no now. If you want to get it, you've already got it - it's not something that requires time. There's no religious practice, no enlightenment, no getting anything, no missing out on anything. At no time is there any other Dharma than this. If anyone claims there is a Dharma superior to this, I say it must be a dream, a phantom. All I have to say to you is simply this."
(tr. B. Watson, p. 33)

Mazu said,
"If you understand the mind and the phenomenal appearance, deluded thought will not originate. If deluded thought does not originate, this is the acceptance of the nonproduction of dharmas. [It] originally existed and exists at present. It does not depend on the cultivation of the Way and seated meditation. Neither cultivation nor seated meditation - this is the pure Chan (dhyana) of Tathagata. If you now understand this reality, you will truly not create any karma. Following your destiny, passing your life, with one cloak or one robe, wherever sitting or standing, it is always with you. Observing the precepts (sila), you accumulate pure karma. If you can be like this, why are you concerned about not understanding?"
(tr. Jinhua Jia, p. 125)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 10th, 2010 at 2:47 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
shel,

Even the NEP is not for everyone as far as not all can attain liberation with it in one life. Also it is good to note that the NEP as it is is not often used as a teaching in Mahayana, instead there are the paramitas, although "in spirit" the NEP is there too. But I brought up Zen specifically because it emphasises sudden enlightenment, awakening in this body. Buddhism and Zen not usable for everybody only means that they don't have the good karma for that. There's also a difference between Buddhism and Zen, which is that even if one is fine with Buddhism it may not be that such a person is OK with Zen but can use Theravada, or Vajrayana, or Tendai, etc.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 10th, 2010 at 6:03 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
shel,

The NEP goes for the entire Buddhadharma. Zen is just one segment, an approach, a style among many as I've already written http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=10905#p10905. Is there anything particularly that you find incomprehensible about what I've already said in this topic?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 10th, 2010 at 3:14 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
shel,

It is specifically Zen, the school of sudden enlightenment, I said and not other teachings or schools.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 10th, 2010 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: The Masters' "Words" and the "Right Speech"
Content:
Astus wrote:
Cleary's translation (Buddhist Yoga - A Comprehensive Course, p. 7-8) of the Xuanzang translation (T676, 解深密經) of the Samdhinirmocana Sutra, in chapter 2, says:

"If people are not ignorant, and have seen the holy truths, and have attained the wisdom of sages, and know the true nature of all things beyond words as it really is, when they see or hear of the created and the uncreated they think that there really is no such thing as the created or the uncreated, but there are active forms created by discrimination, which are like magical effects deceiving the intellect into producing notions of created and uncreated, or notions of difference between created and uncreated. They do not cling to what they have seen or heard, or claim it is the only truth. In order to convey this point, they too make verbal explanations. They do not need to examine further.
"In this way, in the midst of these things, sages detach from names and words by knowledge and insight, and therefore realize enlightenment. Then, because they want to make others aware of this real nature which is beyond words, they provisionally set up names and characteristics and call things created or uncreated."
Then, to restate this point, Unlocking the Implicit Intent of the Profound Doctrine said in verse:

Buddha explains the meaning of nonduality beyond words;
It is most profound, beyond the scope of the ignorant.
The ignorant, confused by delusion about this,
Cling to duality and make false descriptions;
They are either unsettled or fixed in error
And revolve forever in the pains of birth and death.
Still repudiating discourse on true knowledge like this,
They will be reborn as goats and sheep.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 10th, 2010 at 2:42 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
shel,

I talked about attaining Enlightenment in this life, in this body. Not other benefits nor future benefits. Plus I think that Zen is not at all the best in working for other and future benefits.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 9th, 2010 at 11:30 PM
Title: Re: Repeating the name of Lotus sutra ?
Content:
Perceive Universal Sound said:
AT: In the Heart Sutra it says that the prajna paramita mantra (mantra of transcendental wisdom) is the great mantra. Would you explain this?

ZMSS: Yes. They call it "the transcendental mantra, the great bright mantra, the utmost mantra" and so forth. This means that if one simply tries this mantra, gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha, with one's whole energy, then it will be the greatest mantra. Actually, of course, any mantra which you try in this way will be "the greatest mantra" for you! That particular mantra is not special, not different from any other. But all sutras which refer to any kind of mantra will say that it is special.

AT: Which means it is special if one believes that it is.

ZMSS: Correct. A student once asked me, "if this is true then even the words 'Coca Cola' can be a mantra?" Yes, if you really believe that "Coca Cola" is the greatest mantra and practice it diligently, it will work for you.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 9th, 2010 at 2:59 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
shel,

Your question was whether Zen is universal or not. I said it is not as far as its effectiveness in liberation goes. It may still be good for helping people in other ways. Let me explain it in a different way.

The bodhisattva path can be divided up to three stages. Before awakening bodhicitta one accumulates merit which results in the optimal circumstances for bringing about the rise of aspiration for enlightenment. After that one works on both merit and wisdom to familiarise with the Dharma and eventually realise emptiness. Then one can practice the prajnaparamita and all the merits will be innumerable. Before being able to use prajnaparamita all the merits and wisdom are worldly things, after that they're causes of buddhahood.

When talking about the sudden path of Zen it is at least about realising emptiness and working with prajnaparamita, at best it is becoming buddha. It is not concerned with anything below that for that would be the gradual approach. That's why I emphasised enlightenment as the criterion for being able to profit from Zen. Also that is the reason it seems as if in Zen people wouldn't need the common Mahayana methods - this is the source of confusion.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 9th, 2010 at 7:06 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
shel,

I talked about liberation, enlightenment. There are innumerable benefits one can reap even from hearing the word "buddha". It's just that Zen is about sudden enlightenment, seeing the nature. If one cannot see the nature it's only aspiring to reach Zen but not actually obtaining it. The true nature is dependent origination. Confirming dependent origination is perceiving the mechanism of birth and death.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 9th, 2010 at 4:49 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
shel,

There are people who never hear about Zen. There are people who meet Zen but don't care about it. There are people who try to do some Zen and shortly after quit. There are people who do Zen for years, even decades, then quit. And there are those who practice Zen throughout their lives but never realise enlightenment. Zen is not for any of them in a sense that it brought no liberation - even a little liberation - into their lives. And there are others who not just cannot use Zen for good but use it for bad things.

Accepting the essential Buddhist teachings is important, this is called faith, this is called taking refuge. Rebirth is not experiential in an objective, scientific sense, it is not evident for everyone; but it can be confirmed first hand through meditation.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 9th, 2010 at 3:54 AM
Title: Re: A Critique of "Buddhism Without Beliefs"
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'd like to bring some attention to the teaching that only stream-entrants and bodhisattvas at least on the stages of faith are without doubts about the Buddhadharma. And while such people form the Sangha we all take refuge in, the actual community of Buddhists (the eightfold sangha) at any given place has those still aspiring for eliminating their doubts. However, instead of overcoming those doubts to take up a wrong view and be satisfied with it is simply giving up progressing on the path. Which on one hand we can look at as a good karma that he made contact with the Dharma, on the other hand a bad karma that he made only so far. So it is both a joyful and a sad thing. Because it is sad, it is a wrong idea to treat such a person badly. Because it is joyful, it is a good idea to point out that there is more, even better things to find.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 9th, 2010 at 3:41 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
shel,

There is Buddhism, within Buddhism there is Mahayana, within Mahayana there is East Asian Mahayana, within East Asian Mahayana there is Zen, within Zen there are four main regions, within each of those regions there are major schools, within those schools there are sects, within each sect there are lineages and teachers. Thus we go through eight levels to reach a living representative of all of that. Such a person is only within this system. Perhaps a fifth region could be added to count in Western Zen but that would be a bit problematical to see it within East Asian Mahayana. Also, there is no substantial monastic community to serve the basis of any Western Buddhism, perhaps Theravada is the closest to that.

Zen is definitely not effective for everyone. It is one of the myriad expedients. The reason I set up the above categorisation of Zen is because I wanted to show how one one hand Zen is not at all outside of Buddhism, and on the other to point to the fact that even Zen is just a larger category for many different styles and methods.

Then the important task is to define the essentials that make a teaching Buddhism, Mahayana and Zen. Rebirth is an essential part of Buddhism, thus every teaching that claims to be Buddhist must have it. To say that there is Zen without rebirth is to say that there is Zen without Buddhism. Not possible. Therefore those who claim to teach Zen but are not followers of Shakyamuni Buddha are fake. In Zen terms: they didn't receive the transmission, they're not in the family of the ancestors. Without a mind-to-mind transmission how could they have anything to do with Zen? They may have a paper about transmission but that is as good as a painted cake.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 9th, 2010 at 3:10 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
catmoon,

There are many things about Nietzsche and his philosophy to think about, even in relationship to Buddhism. I am not his follower, since I follow the Buddha, but among the many European philosophers he is a really special one in my understanding. Also it should be noted that he lived in the 19th century and didn't have much knowledge about Buddhism. More passages from The Antichrist:

"The things necessary to Buddhism are a very mild climate, customs of great gentleness and liberality, and no militarism; moreover, it must get its start among the higher and better educated classes. Cheerfulness, quiet and the absence of desire are the chief desiderata, and they are attained. Buddhism is not a religion in which perfection is merely an object of aspiration: perfection is actually normal. ... Buddhism is a religion for peoples in a further state of development, for races that have become kind, gentle and over-spiritualized (—Europe is not yet ripe for it—): it is a summons that takes them back to peace and cheerfulness, to a careful rationing of the spirit, to a certain hardening of the body. ... Buddhism is a religion for the closing, over-wearied stages of civilization."

Actually, as we can see, these came true. Buddhism spread in Europe and America in a post-modern age of peace and prosperity among the educated people.

Nietzsche's nihilism, as far as I know (which is really not much), is losing to see the values of this life and instead looking for it somewhere else. That's why Christianity eventually made people nihilist after they lost their faith in God, for there's nothing left to believe in, nothing left to live for. Bringing Buddhism into this situation it is understandable that people like the idea of finding the meaning of life "in this present moment" - which is not much a Buddhist idea actually. The down to earth style Zen is what could inspire many, and this is where my criticism lies. That's why it is important to highlight that Zen is part of Buddhism, of a complex religion, full of "supernatural" and "other-worldly" things like rebirth and fox spirits. Steven Heine wrote two books about the presence of magic and mythology in Zen koans: Shifting Shape, Shaping Text and Opening a Mountain.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 8th, 2010 at 9:16 PM
Title: Re: Speech by Nepalese on his "conversion" to Shin Buddhism
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is fascinating to see how someone who spent many years as a Himalayan monk finds the Primal Vow to be the way to enlightenment. Although I've heard somewhere before that the Japanese have great interest in Tibet.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 8th, 2010 at 3:55 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
shel,

Just because something is experienced doesn't make it either scientific or objective. In the morning I dreamt of a big storm and there was a Tibetan monk who could transform himself. Should we then state there are such monks? There are people, quite a lot, who claim they saw Jesus, Virgin Mary, angels or God himself. Isn't that experience?

Nihilism in Nietzsche's philosophy has its own meaning(s), should not be confused with other views. But it was just an example.

Buddhism is not true for everyone otherwise it'd be the only religion in the world. Thing is, even in Buddhist countries the majority of the followers know little about the Dharma and don't really care (see http://www.thaibuddhism.net/path2_1.htm as an example).


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 8th, 2010 at 6:07 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Why would it be superstitious from a materialist point of view? Are you saying that the NEP is not experiential?"

Karma, rebirth, realms, ghosts, gods, transference of merit, protective spells, magical abilities - what about these?

"From a Nietzschean point of view any belief system is exactly NOT nihilism. Nihilism is a loss of meaning. Obviously Buddhism is meaningful to many people."

"Both [Christianity and Buddhism] are to be reckoned among the nihilistic religions—they are both décadence religions—but they are separated from each other in a very remarkable way." (The Antichrist, §20)

"Christian views of Buddhism have a much fuller spectrum than you suggest."

Yes, there are some who associate themselves with Zen, I've even mentioned two of them in a post here not long ago. I better correct myself to refer to mainstream Christian churches' (Catholic, Calvinist, Lutheran, Baptist, etc.) official statements. Then we can see while there are certain monks of the Roman Catholic Church who sympathise with Buddhism, the Vatican has never did so.

"I don't see how this part is relevant."

I was only referring to making Buddhism a universal teaching. Universal to whom?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 7th, 2010 at 5:45 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Shel,

Buddhism, including all the Buddhist traditions, is a path, a system of teachings meant to be used for attaining liberation from suffering. To make a statement requires taking a viewpoint. From the Buddhist point it is of course a universal teaching. From a materialist point Buddhism is a superstition. From a Nietzschean point it is nihilism. And depending on whom you ask, from a Christian point it can be anything between idolatry to ignorant people with good intention.

It is easy to make the mistake of taking an "outsider point", a third party which belongs to none. Objective observation. This is what doesn't exist. It doesn't exist in a sense of independent view, although it exists as a dependent view itself. Of course, this is again a view among other views.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 7th, 2010 at 5:34 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirt,

Yes, Daido Loori is an exceptional Zen teacher not just within Sanbo Kyodan but the whole west. But, sadly, he's the exception. Others like Glassman, Merzel or Aitken are not like that. This has relevance to the present discussion as it shows how people can believe there is Buddhism without rebirth.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, June 7th, 2010 at 2:17 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
m0rl0ck,

Sr. Elaine MacInnes, a Catholic nun and Dharma-heir of Yamada Koun, says the same about the goal of Zen as you do (see: Teaching Zen to Christians, p. 71-80). Robert Kennedy, Jesuit monk and Dharma-heir of Bernie Glassman, confirms the same ideal: "Zen practice helps us to realize our true nature and to liberate our mind from concepts and images." (Zen Spirit, Chirstian Spirit, p. 28).

I didn't mean it is a self-help therapy develop a better personality - although it is a good thing too. But such stripped Zen contains the idea that this true nature to be realised is available without correct view. It is a misunderstanding of the Zen definition that it is outside of teachings.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, June 6th, 2010 at 10:35 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
m0rl0ck,

Those who say that Christians (or from any other religion outside Buddhism) can authentically practice Zen are teaching a therapy, a mental fitness training and not Buddhadharma. And Sanbo Kyodan (the majority of western Zen teachers belong to it) is like that, while Kwan Um Zen is close to it because they accept the idea but they don't have Christian Zen teachers as far as I know. And there are others who believe Zen is something universal rather than something specifically Buddhist.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 5th, 2010 at 6:49 PM
Title: Re: A Critique of "Buddhism Without Beliefs"
Content:
Astus wrote:
I have a vision of "Western Buddhism" where the three now separate groups (Theravada, EA Mahayana, Tibetan Vajrayana) merge into one single system and then eventually new schools appear from that amalgamation. For instance a Vipassana group doing Hevajra sadhanas and the teacher lecturing on a koan.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 5th, 2010 at 6:42 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Huifeng,

Yes, I'm sure it is the oral nature that makes the difference. I guess bringing up stories at the time of a speech is a good thing but in writing not necessarily.

By the way, I'm not good in translating things. I may be able to use Chinese texts but very slowly (simply because I've never really studied it systematically neither do I practice). And the main reason is I'm not fond of translating. Plus, I only do it to Hungarian and not English (but rather from it).

Huseng,

I'm fine with traditional commentaries, useful stuff, even those parts that seem unnecessary.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 5th, 2010 at 6:00 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Could be. But from the East Asian section it is thanks for the Japanese that Buddhism came west. Even Seung Sahn and Shengyan was told by the Japanese to go to America. It is a double-edged sword, so to say. It is interesting to note that Shengyan was in contact with the Harada lineage in Japan where http://sweepingzen.com/2009/12/22/ban-tetsugyu-bio/ told him to go to America.

What could balance the situation is a movement of Dharma teachers who lecture on texts already available in English. While there are dozens of Lotus Sutra and Diamond Sutra translations a good commentary is hard to find. Only Xuanhua produced explanations for those texts but those are more for a Chinese audience than westerners. Or is it just me who find them too long, too boring and superficial?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 5th, 2010 at 5:10 PM
Title: Re: Origins of Amitabha
Content:
Astus wrote:
But was there any similar description of the antarabhava as in Vajrayana? I've never seen it so far.

It makes the transference to the Pure Land less salvational because it turns the experience and the teaching into a neural phenomenon if it is originated from NDE.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, June 5th, 2010 at 4:12 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
That's why it happens that in the west Theravada and Vajrayana can produce religious Buddhists while Zen in most of the cases is a weekend therapy session.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 4th, 2010 at 3:34 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
It seems a fundamental part of the basic teachings of Buddhism is missing, ie. about the skandhas, dhatus and dharmas. So here are some introductory materials:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skandha

http://viewonbuddhism.org/mind.html

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/sutra/level4_deepening_understanding_path/types_phenomena/5_factors_12_stimulators_18_sources.html

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/sutra/level4_deepening_understanding_path/types_phenomena/aggregate_forms_physical_phenomena.html

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/sutra/level1_getting_started/general_introductory_material/basic_question_karma_rebirth.html

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/audio/fundamentals_tibetan_buddhism/level_graded_path_material/intermediate_scope/overview_12_links_dependent_arising/transcript_3.html

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/x/nav/group.html_50360014.html


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, June 4th, 2010 at 4:21 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
m0rl0ck said:
Emptiness is pretty much the core of the mahayana. Where you been dude?

Astus wrote:
Emptiness is dependent origination. Dependent origination also affirms rebirth. Chapter 17 of the Mulamadhyamakakarika is specifically about deeds (karma) and fruits (phala) to show how individual rebirth exists and consequences are experienced by the one who caused it.

Also, the Heart Sutra talks about the five skandhas, the eighteen dhatus, the twelve links of dependent origination and the four noble truths. The five skandhas are divided up to nama and rupa, also the fourth link is nama and rupa. The 18 dhatus lists both objects of consciousness and consciousness separately, where the first five consciousnesses (eye-touch) have the four great elements as their objects but the sixth has dharmas, which are not made of the elements.

Nevertheless, you made no reply about what I referred to you as clear teachings on the existence of mind not being the same as body.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 3rd, 2010 at 5:23 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
m0rl0ck,

Let me add here a quote from Jinul whom you're probably familiar with:

"The physical body is the temporary collation of four elements; soil, water, fire and wind. The essence is rigid and insensible. How can each of them in themselves possibly see, hear, feel, or be conscious?" (Golden Teaching of the Mind Cultivation, ch. 4)

Also:

"You should know that what is capable of seeing, hearing, moving, and acting has to be your original mind; it is not your physical body. Furthermore, the four elements which make up the physical body are by nature void; they are like images in a mirror or the moon's reflection in water. How can they be clear and constantly aware, always bright and never obscured― and, upon activation, be able to put into operation sublime functions as numerous as the sands of the Ganges?" (Secrets on Cultivating the Mind, ch. 6)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 3rd, 2010 at 4:52 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
The Heart Sutra is hardly a good reference for different Buddhist teachings. It's like saying that the Mani Mantra says nothing about the seven factors of enlightenment. The Lankavatara Sutra, on the other hand, is all about there being only mind and no external things. So it is not just that there is an immaterial mind but actually there is nothing like a physical body.

For this basic teaching of nama-rupa better look at some introductory material, like the book "What Buddhists Believe?". See here the relevant part: http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/whatbudbeliev/73.htm

For further study of the subject there are the abhidharma teachings. Here's some intro starting with discussing nama and rupa a bit: http://www.vipassana.info/nina-abhi-01.htm#chapter1


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 3rd, 2010 at 4:06 PM
Title: Re: Buddhaguptanatha and the Late Survival of the Siddha Traditi
Content:
Astus wrote:
Amazing!


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, June 3rd, 2010 at 3:19 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
catmoon,

It depends on what view one takes. From a materialist view there can be no rebirth. From a Christian view there is no need for rebirth. From a Buddhist view there is rebirth. So the first member of the noble eightfold path is correct view.

Proving something depends on view because that defines what one takes as proof. From a Buddhist view there is rebirth based on the nature of the world which is made of both material (body) and immaterial (mind) and it's all governed by causality. So from a Buddhist view there is dependent origination but no creator god, while many other views take the existence of a creator granted.

Since Buddhism is not that easy to understand it is all right if someone has doubts about different parts of the teaching. It has to be worked on and that way it is possible to comprehend the relevance of what the Buddha said in different sutras. But to neglect study is to stop progressing on the path. To deny the importance of obtaining a correct view is to abandon the path.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 2nd, 2010 at 11:50 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Communism was never the state form anywhere on this planet. Communism means a country without money, social classes and government, where people share everything with each other. It is mainly like heaven on earth, a utopia. Should not be confused with dictatorships using only the name.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 2nd, 2010 at 11:17 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
m0rl0ck,

Buddhism makes no sense without rebirth as far as its soteriology goes. Without samsara to be free from there is no point in working on liberation. Actually, if there is only this body without a mind bound to be born again and again enlightenment is a religious superstition and nothing more, delusion of the mentally unstable. If there were no rebirth I'd vote for some Nietzschean or Sartrean philosophy for Buddhism - and every other religion - then is just for those without a firm grasp on reality.

It is true that in Buddhism mind is not without a body in this realm (in the formless realm it is). It is like the relationship between meaning and words. The meaning can be expressed with different words, different metaphors, or in different languages, or in a music, a painting, a statue. Is meaning then the same as the word? No. Is it separate? No. A meaning to be communicated depends on a form. So does the mind depend on the body. However, without mind there is no living being, just as there is no word without a meaning (that's the difference between a group of letters and a word).

At the time of the Buddha there were other teachers who had different positions on rebirth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajita_Kesakambali said that with death everything is over, no rebirth at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjaya_Belatthaputta took the position of the agnostic. And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purana_Kassapa simply denied the existence of morality and the consequences of one's deeds.

These are not the Buddha's teaching, who taught rebirth and the consequences of one's own deeds that affect one personally. It was because of Shakyamuni's training for many aeons that he attained buddhahood and not something that just happened.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 2nd, 2010 at 8:52 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
What stops people from understanding that there is rebirth is that they believe there is only this body made of the four elements and don't look at their mind. When it becomes clear that mind is non-material it comes logically from causality that it doesn't die with the body but takes another birth.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 2nd, 2010 at 4:53 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth and morality.
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm all in for rebirth. But actually it is not necessarily true that without an afterlife there is no morality. It is called (secular) humanism. Socialism and communism are further improvements of materialist philosophy working on the welfare of the society.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, June 2nd, 2010 at 2:01 AM
Title: Re: A new low in religious scholarship
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't see that much problem here. Just compare it to a Kalachakra initiation:

"The three exalted initiations are as follows: the vase initiation is the gnosis of bliss and emptiness that arises from the disciple touching the consort's breasts. The secret initiation is the gnosis of bliss and emptiness that arises from the disciple savouring the bodhichitta (sperm), the wisdom-gnosis initiation is the experience of connate joy that arises from the disciple and consort themselves engaging in union." ( http://www.dalailama.com/teachings/kalachakra-initiations )


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 1st, 2010 at 10:15 PM
Title: Re: What is the relationship of "The Witness" to Enlightenment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The idea of a "witness" is not Chan, if anything at all, a mistake of Chan. As Foyan Qingyuan said,

People nowadays mostly take the immediate mirroring awareness to be the ultimate principle. This is why Xuansha said to people, "Tell me, does it still exist in remote uninhabited places deep in the mountains?" (Instant Zen, p. 107)

I should have put a hyphen or a comma there to make it clearer.

And to answer your question: it is both something I tried to use as a practice and also something I have an opinion about.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 1st, 2010 at 8:09 PM
Title: Re: What is the relationship of "The Witness" to Enlightenment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
It depends on what You mean by "witness". As for me, it is as I said.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 1st, 2010 at 5:50 PM
Title: Re: What is the relationship of "The Witness" to Enlightenment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Regarding the Chan view I'd like to mention that the "witness" is a passive, detached, dualistic position (sounds like that to me), while the nature of mind is void and active besides being aware.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 1st, 2010 at 4:09 PM
Title: Re: The Life of the Buddha
Content:
Astus wrote:
Could check it from work where I also have a US proxy, it is the same film.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, June 1st, 2010 at 12:18 AM
Title: Re: What is the relationship of "The Witness" to Enlightenment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

OK, I think I see the point of misunderstanding. On an illusory level there is a person deciding things, I didn't mean to question that. Same chapter in the MMK (8.12) says, describing how agent and action exists:

"Agent depends upon action.
Action depends on the agent as well.
Apart from dependent arising
One cannot see any cause for their existence."

This conception of a self serves as the doer of a deed, so there is karma and samsara and its source is ignorance. What happens on the level of dharmas, however, is pure causality, or in other words, dependent origination. This is the difference between parikalpita and paratantra. Sounds like determinism from the view of self but not from no-self.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 31st, 2010 at 9:06 PM
Title: Re: What is the relationship of "The Witness" to Enlightenment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"There may not be an absolute self, but there is a person or agent that is neither apart from the aggregates nor is any or all of the aggregates."

Through understanding the work of the aggregates it is easy to see why there is no agent but only the causally determined work of the aggregates. The concepts of being, person, agent is from not understanding the aggregates. The dependent functioning of the dharmas is very much like a machine. Agent and action is nothing but a causal situation, like clouds blown by the wind. The wind has no will of its own but also determined by other factors. Mental dharmas are determined by other dharmas. Thus there is no thinker behind mental dharmas. Then, if we care to go on with the analysis - which is a bit superfluous - even dharmas are conceptually made up things.

Determinism is the idea that there is a person being controlled by other factors. Since there is no such thing as a person, how could it be determined by others? Same mistake when someone thinks there is a self disappearing in nirvana.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 31st, 2010 at 7:03 AM
Title: Re: What is the relationship of "The Witness" to Enlightenment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

I wasn't making a philosophical but a practical observation. Nevertheless, if you think it's appropriate here to bring that up, there it is:

in the ultimate sense all the truths should be understood as void because of the absence of (i) any experiencer, (ii) any doer, (iii) anyone who is extinguished, and (iv) any goer. Hence this is said:

'For there is suffering, but none who suffers;
Doing exists although there is no doer;
Extinction is but no extinguished person;
Although there is a path, there is no goer'.
(Vsm. XVI. 90.)

Also:

That which is an agent
Does not perform an existent action.
Nor does that which is not an agent
Perform some nonexistent action.
(MMK 8.1)

But the next chapted of the MMK deals better with the "Witness" idea, examining the concept of a perceiver behind things perceived.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 30th, 2010 at 9:28 PM
Title: Re: Knowing Buddhism through non-Buddhist sources?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

If one is a scholar who specialises in one part of Buddhism it is of course expected that such a person is familiar with the everything relevant to a higher degree. So if you were a Fazang expert you'd have to be knowledgeable about practically everything Fazang knew and even beyond that to be able to see the bigger socio-historical picture. On the other hand, if I want to learn and use the Huayan teachings, for me it's enough to read some of his works and that's it, even an acceptable translation may suffice, or a teacher who read Fazang.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 30th, 2010 at 9:16 PM
Title: Re: What is the relationship of "The Witness" to Enlightenment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think the "witness experience" is quite common among meditation practitioners. In certain Hindu teachings (advaita vedanta, sankhya, yoga) this is the true self beyond everything else. In Buddhism this should be understood as one of the basic concepts of self (the experiencer; the other one is the doer). The independent witness, well, that is a concept of the atman.

In terms of practice, it is possible to separate objects from the subject. "I'm watching the thoughts." Then should come the turning of attention from thoughts to the watcher. Is there really something/someone watching? No. There is no witness, no self, anatma. Are there thoughts? Yes. Is there a thinker? No.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 30th, 2010 at 8:39 PM
Title: Re: The Buddha Speaking of Huatou Practice?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huatou practice is not signless. While it means "before thoughts" it is not even the same as Caodong's before thoughts (Dogen: non-thinking). It is not signless for in that case no question and no doubt could be used. It is not mere "resting in the natural state" or "non-abiding". Huatou practice is maintaining the feeling of doubt until a breakthrough is achieved, such a result then is realising signlessness. That's why I said they're not the same.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 30th, 2010 at 12:58 AM
Title: Re: The Life of the Buddha
Content:
Astus wrote:
Is this the same BBC film?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WiswuYO1cE " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 30th, 2010 at 12:55 AM
Title: Re: The Buddha Speaking of Huatou Practice?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't see how much this has to do with huatou. The essential aspect what makes a huatou is the great mass of doubt. On the other hand, meditation on the signless element (animittadhatu) is a gateway to liberation that requires contemplation of impermanence. It is one of the three possible ways to escape samsara, this one being described as:

"to the seeing of all formations as limited and circumscribed and to the entering of consciousness into the signless element ... Herein, as limited and circumscribed [means] both as limited by rise and fall and as circumscribed by them; for contemplation of impermanence limits them thus, 'Formations do not exist previous to their rise', and in seeking their destiny, sees them as circumscribed thus, 'They do not go beyond fall, they vanish there'. ... And here the signless liberation should be understood as the noble path that has occurred by making nibbana its object through the signless aspect. For that path is signless owing to the signless element having arisen, and it is a liberation owing to deliverance from defilements." (Vsm 21.67-71)

In Mahayana both signlessness and wishlessness became summed up in the third: emptiness. Not to mention the meaning got changed too.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 29th, 2010 at 1:14 AM
Title: Re: your choice of Mahyana & Vajrayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Gaiamori,

Are you sure you have the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pali_Canon? That's a lot of books.

I'd recommend you Paul Williams' https://www.amazon.com/Mahayana-Buddhism-Doctrinal-Foundations-Religious/dp/0415356539/ as a good summary, Ven. Sheng-yen's https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Chinese-Buddhism-Contemporary-Questions/dp/1556436572/ as an introduction, Ven. Dharmamitra's translation of Zhiyi's https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-Buddhist-Meditation-Shramana-Zhiyi/dp/1935413007/ for practice and Hakeda's trasnaltion of Asvaghosa's https://www.amazon.com/Awakening-Faith-Translations-Asian-Classics/dp/0231131577/ for something to contemplate. These four books will give you a solid understanding of East Asian Mahayana.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 28th, 2010 at 10:55 PM
Title: Re: your choice of Mahyana & Vajrayana
Content:
Huseng said:
Yeah I also fancied those weird Zen stories where legs were being broken and skulls were being beaten with canes, but then I learned about Nagarjuna.

Astus wrote:
Oh yes, Nagarjuna breaks your mind.

Huseng said:
One day [...] Ko Bong visited Tong Do Sah Temple. He stood at the gate and shouted, "Somebody come here and cut my hair, please. I want to become a monk." Many monks were angered by his arrogant behavior. They grabbed some sticks and went out to beat him. Ko Bong only said, "You can hit my body but you cannot hit my mind. If you can hit my mind, I will become your disciple." But none of the monks could hit his mind.
Another time, outside Nam Ja Sah Temple, he shouted the same kinds of things, and again all of the monks were very angry and wanted to beat him. Ko Bong again asked if anyone could hit his mind. At that time, Zen Master Hae Bong heard this and came to see Ko Bong. He asked, "How many pounds does your mind weigh?" Ko Bong could not answer, so he cut off all his hair and became a monk.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 28th, 2010 at 9:53 PM
Title: Re: What does this Dogen passage mean to you?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Huifeng,

Now consider the case when from English it is translated to still another language. That's because English is the primary Western language and the source of Buddhist texts in many countries. But, I don't know of a case when a text is translated from a translation made from English. Nevertheless, this is very much into the realm of language and the mysteries of translating.

By the way, now that you see the Chinese characters, would you add something to your analysis of the text?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 28th, 2010 at 9:25 PM
Title: Re: What does this Dogen passage mean to you?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here are  three other translations of the same paragraph:

Carl Bielefeldt said:
It is not the case simply that there is water in the world; within the world of water there is a world. And this is true not only within water: within clouds as well there is world of sentient beings; within wind there is world of sentient beings; within fire there is world of sentient beings; within earth there is world of sentient beings. Within the dharma realm there is a world of sentient beings; within a single blade of grass there is world of sentient beings; within a single staff there is a world of sentient beings. And wherever there is a world of sentient beings, there, inevitably, is the world of buddhas and ancestors. The reason this so, we should study very carefully.

Shasta Abbey said:
Not only is there water in the world, there is a world within the world of water. Not only is it like this in water, there is also a sentient world in clouds, and a sentient world in wind, and a sentient world in fire, and a sentient world in earth, and a sentient world in the realm of thoughts and things, and a sentient world in a blade of grass, and a sentient world in a monk’s traveling staff. Wherever there is a sentient world, there is, of necessity, a world of Buddhas and Ancestors in that place. Such a principle should be well explored indeed!

T. Cleary said:
It is not just that there is water in the world; there are worlds in the realm of water. And this is so not only in water - there are also worlds of sentient beings in clouds, there are worlds of sentient beings in wind, there are worlds of sentient beings in fire, there are worlds of sentient beings in earth, there are worlds of sentient beings in phenomena, there are worlds of sentient beings in a single blade of grass, there are worlds of sentient beings in a single staff. Where there are worlds of sentient beings, there must be the world of Buddhas and Zen adepts - you should meditate on this principle very thoroughly.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 28th, 2010 at 9:01 PM
Title: Re: your choice of Mahyana & Vajrayana
Content:
Astus wrote:
When I found Buddhism and starter learning about it, it seemed to be a clear, logical religion that can bring one to the depths of reality. In the beginning I fancied Zen koans and teachings but liked studying about Theravada and the Pali Canon too. Vajrayana has always been the one I felt the furthest from me, however, after many years I could amass enough curiosity to learn some basics about it. And while until today my primary affiliation is with Chinese Buddhism, I take the Buddhadharma as my refuge, regardless of lineage, school or tradition.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 28th, 2010 at 3:39 PM
Title: Re: What does this Dogen passage mean to you?
Content:
Dexing said:
众生 is living beings and 界 is world, also used together in eye-world, ear-world, etc., aka the "18 Realms/Worlds" 十八界.

Astus wrote:
I think then we better look at what Dogen wrote:

realms: 世界 (world), 法界 (dharma-realm), 一莖草 (a blade of grass), 一杖 (a staff)
elements: 水 (water), 雲 (cloud), 風 (wind), 火 (fire), 地 (earth)
beings: 有情 (sentient being), 佛 (buddha), 祖 (ancestor)

Not that this would change the meaning already obtained from the translation.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 27th, 2010 at 11:13 PM
Title: Re: What does this Dogen passage mean to you?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirt,

The paragraph is from the http://hcbss.stanford.edu/research/projects/sztp/translations/shobogenzo/translations/sansuikyo/sansuikyo.translation.html (Sansuikyo, SBGZ 29). If you look into it for yourself you can see Dogen is not at all interested in miniature beings. A bit long but it's worth the time. Also then you can see Dogen's language in the Shobogenzo is not a normal one but what somebody called "koan language" (just searched on it, it's https://books.google.com/books?id=qFrhlx2vqOgC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=dogen+%22koan+language%22&source=bl&ots=jACMLBuQfd&sig=vxC8TN8Pa6tCsX0OAZR9riGez4U&hl=en&ei=tYr-S72WJ4Kclgfnk_zmCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=dogen%20%22koan%20language%22&f=false ).

And as Master Huifeng pointed at it succinctly, this kind of interpretation and speaking is not uniquely Dogen but something peculiarly East Asian Buddhist. The Avatamsaka Sutra bred different views in China than in Tibet.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 27th, 2010 at 8:00 PM
Title: Re: What does this Dogen passage mean to you?
Content:
Huseng said:
Gotta use Japanese kanji for "Kegon".

Astus wrote:
Bummer.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 27th, 2010 at 7:16 PM
Title: Re: What does this Dogen passage mean to you?
Content:
Huifeng said:
Huayan = Kegon.  Sums it up.

Astus wrote:
Shortest answer so far. Maybe it's a bit cheating... 華嚴是華嚴


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 27th, 2010 at 4:14 PM
Title: Re: What does this Dogen passage mean to you?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Huifeng,

The quoted paragraph is http://21dzk.l.u-tokyo.ac.jp/SAT/ddb-sat2.php?mode=detail&mode2=1&num1=2582&num2=&vol=82&page=66

(didn't copy-paste because it contains special characters)

world: 世界
sentient being: 有情
一莖草中ニモ有情世界アリ。- in a single blade of grass there is a world of sentient beings.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 27th, 2010 at 3:37 PM
Title: Re: What does this Dogen passage mean to you?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"I was hoping we could get more at the experiential sense of it"

It is a form of religious writing that Dogen uses, a kind of literature. This is a forum where what we can use are words. So the question is, what is an "experiential sense" style? Is it perhaps expressing the same thing in our own words? Or composing a short poem as they did in China (qv. koan collections)? Maybe come up with a Zen-style reaction? So many options.

Many lines of words
In a world of lies
Few pointless letters
Tell complete stories


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 27th, 2010 at 4:39 AM
Title: Re: What does this Dogen passage mean to you?
Content:
Astus wrote:
A way to say the Tendai teaching of "three thousand worlds in a single thought", which is a way to state interdependence and interpenetration. Or to be less biased, a usual East Asian way of expressing dependent origination.

Or perhaps Dogen obtained a microscope from visiting aliens.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 27th, 2010 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: Essentials of Practice and Enlightenment for Beginners
Content:
Astus wrote:
White Lotus,

I don't know if you've realised it's not m0rl0ck's essay but a writing by Hanshan Deqing, one of the most famous Buddhist teachers of Ming China.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 26th, 2010 at 11:30 PM
Title: Re: Celibacy and Health
Content:
Astus wrote:
This little discussion - which I don't mind at all - feels like elderly women chatting about the good old days over the garden fence.

And there are the buddha-nature and dharmadhatu teachings, how everything is already perfect (says so the Dzogchen master).


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 26th, 2010 at 6:27 PM
Title: Re: Celibacy and Health
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

What you say resembles very much the message of the Ani Sutta (SN 20.7):

"in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited."

Similar warning in SN 16.13 (A Counterfeit of the True Dhamma): "It's worthless people who arise right here [within the Sangha] who make the true Dhamma disappear."

What happens? Even monastic curriculum may contain more "explanation for the commentary of the commentary" than reading the sutra itself. And what they do with the sutras? Bow before them and recite the mantra or the title of it. Magical learning. Could be used in universities too, made things easier.

"As long as the monks neither decree what has been undecreed nor repeal what has been decreed, but practice undertaking the training rules as they have been decreed, their growth can be expected, not their decline." (AN 7.21)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 26th, 2010 at 5:11 PM
Title: Re: Celibacy and Health
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Huifeng,

Yes, now that sounds better. Such version then fits Zongmi's vision of combining sudden enlightenment with gradual training. It's just that a new TV series should be made of Sudhana's journey, starting with the cell mate Samantabhadra and ending with the guard tower of infinite connections (like when Neo meets the Architect in Matrix Reloaded).


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 26th, 2010 at 3:50 PM
Title: Re: Celibacy and Health
Content:
Astus wrote:
This prison metaphor is so much like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave in a modern " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_Break " format.

I think meditation on the drawbacks of samsara is essential as a basis for the path, and this appears to be usually missing from Western Buddhism.

I like the metaphor of the film. One watches a film because he thinks it is interesting. It could be a love story or a horror, the point is to glue people to the screen. Samsara here is not a grey prison cell but a world full of entertainment. Honey on the blade. And we're told honey is the meaning of life, and a success story is when you can avoid the blade (lived happily ever after). That is the modern myth of love and money we're told again and again. The soap opera of life.

Also, the TV/film metaphor gives the option of both gradual and sudden awakening.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 24th, 2010 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist hells: Real places or just mental states?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Well, Buddhist cosmology is a bit outdated with a scientific eye. However, we don't have (yet) the means to dig too deep into the earth.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 24th, 2010 at 11:13 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist hells: Real places or just mental states?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Jambudvipa is this continent where we live, where Shakyamuni appeared. So the hells are under us (physically), similarly to Christian hell.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 24th, 2010 at 11:06 PM
Title: Re: Huang Po in context
Content:
Astus wrote:
I read a bit of Huangbo again, and the Lok To translation didn't seem to be exactly like the Chinese, then I looked up the Blofeld version, which is again a unique form of rendering. I guess a re-translation according to modern norms, following a better terminology and not playing with capital letters is really in order. Maybe Dale Wright should do us this little favour, he seems to be the best Huangbo expert around.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 24th, 2010 at 10:20 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist hells: Real places or just mental states?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it was in northern Hinayana groups where the idea appeared that the hell realms are mental projections on a certain level, thus explaining the existence of the beings torturing those born there. Then such a view was later took up by Mahayana thinkers. Nevertheless, the hells are (also) physical places just like any other realms. IIRC, it is located somewhere under Jambudvipa, but not sure.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 24th, 2010 at 9:28 PM
Title: Re: Origins of Amitabha
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nice, Master Huifeng, putting together NDE, psychology and philosophy of religion to show that it is all natural that Amitabha Buddha is associated with both infinite light and transference/birth in a buddha-land. At this point we could as well turn to the Vajrayana teachings on the intermediate state which is full of different lights.

On the other hand, this makes the whole "Amitabha Cult" seem less salvational.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 24th, 2010 at 5:47 PM
Title: Re: Origins of Amitabha
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think as for religious psychology - and mythology, gods, types of beliefs - the different levels of existence from hell to the formless realms are a wonderful source and description. It's the whole spectrum from top to bottom. Making it more Buddhist with bodhisattvas and buddhas seems then an internalisation (into Buddhism) of an ancient Indian cosmology.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 24th, 2010 at 4:41 PM
Title: Re: Origins of Amitabha
Content:
Astus wrote:
I've heard this idea a couple of times before. I think it is/was a trend in cultural anthropology to find sources of cultural phenomena in other places, ultimately arriving at the original source (or something like that) - called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-cultural_diffusion.

But maybe we can actually find internal sources. I think of those gods who are "made of light", or shining (appamanabha deva - Devas of Unbounded Radiance). So it is not at all inconceivable how a Buddha of Infinite Light could be found in Buddhism. We just have to establish that the concepts of infinite and light were present as religious ideas.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 24th, 2010 at 4:28 AM
Title: Re: Huang Po in context
Content:
Astus wrote:
A very relevant book on Huangbo and its modern interpretation: Philosophical Meditations on Zen Buddhism by Dale S. Wright


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 24th, 2010 at 3:36 AM
Title: Re: Huang Po in context
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Huifeng,

Actually, the two records of Huangbo assembled by Peixiu and probably some of Huangbo's direct disciples are mainly from that era, with occasional modifications by later ages.

"From the perspective of contemporary Buddhist studies, its importance derives from the fact that this literature is the best example of the state of the Zen tradition in China during what has traditionally been regarded as the “golden age.” What is unique about the Huang-po literature is that it is precisely dateable, thus providing a crucial historical marker in the Zen tradition."
(Dale S. Wright: The Huang-po Literature, in Zen Canon, p. 107 - same essay as linked in the OP)

This kind of sudden enlightenment teaching of the Hongzhou school as we find it in Huangbo's records is also attested by Zongmi, also there's Jinhua Jia's work on Mazu's teachings collected from sources as early and reliable as possible. And there are still others, like the Guishan Jingce found in Dunhuang and dated 936.

While it is true that many Tang Chan records are overly edited, or fake, or simply untraceable, there are some sources to look into. And it appears to be that Hongzhou Chan is/was quite radical about sudden enlightenment.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 24th, 2010 at 2:56 AM
Title: Re: Celibacy and Health
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

So, one forsakes lust but hasn't eliminated lust. It should fit the case when one doesn't even want to drink coffee in the evening, although he might drank one in the morning. Also, after lunch one isn't hungry and until dinner there's no need to think of food. By the way, if temporary non-presence of lust is not good enough, how could a permanent non-presence of lust be fine? As far as the non-presence of lust is concerned, both cases are satisfactory.

Master Huifeng's suggestion should be considered too.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 23rd, 2010 at 7:28 PM
Title: Re: Celibacy and Health
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

If you interpret the quote in a way that one must have eliminated kama, only non-returners and above attain any absorption. Which would then mean wisdom is available without absorption as those on the first two noble stages still have sensual desire. But I believe this has been already mentioned before.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 22nd, 2010 at 7:13 PM
Title: Re: Celibacy and Health
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

And what percent of the population studied in those schools in Shakespeare's times? Very small. And that's what I meant to point out, that the masses were uneducated peasants and craftsmen. Today, who learn Sanskrit, or any foreign language, has to memorise the grammar. Or you could learn Japanese by watching samurai films?

They memorised texts, true. I, on the other hand, have hundreds of books, plus the internet. In terms of information we're way beyond the capacity of Ananda, the whole canon on a single e-book reader with a search option.

The Chinese literati were no monks, sure. And they still could be involved in high level Buddhism, like Peixiu and Li Tongxuan.

As I said, celibate life and putting aside a noisy, desiring mind for a while are not the same. Otherwise teaching meditation to lay people would be quite pointless, don't you think? But they did so in the past and they do it now too.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 22nd, 2010 at 5:51 PM
Title: Re: Celibacy and Health
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

It's great you bring some everyday reality here. But, and this is just as normal too, in the Western countries the newly converted people don't choose Buddhism because they're eager to make some merit for better birth, nor do they like much religious rituals. It is meditation that sells Buddhism, and the Dalai Lama. Average middle class people with university degrees have the time and energy to engage in regular practice. It shouldn't be forgot that today those who have a high school level of knowledge would be called panditas a thousand years back. Uneducated, poor laypeople are not the same as educated and relatively wealthy laymen. Praying for more sons and more food comes naturally for those who depend on those things. That's not the situation of modern Buddhists here. Consequently they want something spiritual instead of material, just as the literati didn't visit Buddhist teachers to learn how to receive more ink and paper in their next life. They wanted enlightenment, Chan, realising the true nature of mind - or at least some good philosophical chit-chat.

I think it is easy among all the teachings to forget it is about decreasing suffering and not about living up to some idea. The problem with lay life is that it involves more problem than a monastic life. But if one has the good background for paying more attention to the Dharma than worldly matters, where is the problem? In medieval Europe the monks had the knowledge and they were the philosophers and wise people of the age, very similar to India and China. Then in the 16th century things began to really change, the clergy gradually lost its position, science, philosophy and theology became the matter of educated citizens. Monastic life never again enjoyed its lost popularity, since it wasn't necessary to live like that in order to know how to read and write.

By the way, to attain any level of dhyana you don't have to be celibate, or live a life of a recluse. True, being occupied by desires prevents the mind to settle down. First of all, no man is constantly full of passion. I have no doubt that one can put aside everyday matters even for an hour, or for a week, sometimes for a month or two. While I don't live a celibate life, it is not hard for me to enjoy inner peace for an hour without thinking about sex, food, sleep, fame or wealth. Even when one is sick and has pains can preserve serenity and rise above concerns.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 22nd, 2010 at 4:08 AM
Title: Re: Death of the Arhat
Content:
Astus wrote:
"The mind-continuum is in a sense eternal in that one moment of mind conditions the next moment of mind. Ultimately this is transformed into wisdom and in that sense the mind ends."

Regarding the eternally continuing mind-moments MMK 16:1 has the refutation:

"Suppose compounded phenomena cycle:
If they are permanent, they do not cycle.
Even if they are impermanent, they do not cycle.
The same approach applies to sentient beings."

On the third line of the stanza Tsongkhapa (Ocean of Reasoning, p. 331-333) gives an explanation how the concept of an impermanent, changing mental continuum cannot be the one to go around in samsara.

"As for no end of rebirth - yes there is an end to rebirth. The problem of rebirth for ordinary beings is uncontrolled rebirth driven by karma and obscurations. There is an end to that."

I guess you mean that liberated beings can choose their birth. That would actually suppose a being outside of samsara making a decision about where to be born. And even if it is within samsara, where does the decision originate from? If the decision is caused by former mental factors, it couldn't be called controlled choice. If it is independent of other factors, that is the case of something out of nothing, or a case of an independent self.

"Actually we should look at the Abidharma teachings on this. Mind is however not a thing or entity but a Dependant arising. Therefore it is not an atman."

What Abhidharma teaching do you think of here? Certainly, mind is dependently arisen. Thus, it can dependently end - with the elimination of ignorance there is no further cause for the arising of consciousness, birth and suffering.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 21st, 2010 at 9:27 PM
Title: Re: Celibacy and Health
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

Among all the quotes you cited didn't say there is "compassionate sex" only in the one by Berzin.

The question is: can lust be realised as empty? Certainly, everything is empty. Emptiness doesn't mean non-existence, just one is not bound by it, one doesn't think it is self-existent. Can we deduce from this that lust may not cause suffering? I don't think so, as there is a causal relationship according to the second noble truth. Can suffering be empty? Of course. Thus lust can be not lust and suffering not suffering. So did Vimalakirti have wife and kids while being alone and celibate. Good stuff, eh? So much for lay people...


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 21st, 2010 at 5:12 PM
Title: Re: Celibacy and Health
Content:
Astus wrote:
"if married, didnt uncompassionately deny sex to their spouses."

Is it uncompassionate to deny drugs from an addicted?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 21st, 2010 at 1:54 AM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
For the discussion that was started here see: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=1459


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 20th, 2010 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: Death of the Arhat
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirt,

Yes, by bringing the eternal mind-continuum ("soulriver") into the equation it can be solved, saying that there is no such thing as end of rebirth, end of dependent origination, end of samsara. Thus whatever nirvana an arhat imagines is false. Thinking about the possiblities this was the only one which sounded plausible to explain an arhat's ongoing quest for buddhahood.

On the other hand, this eternal mind-continuum sounds, well, like a liquidified atman, with the result that one's mind is eternal, this time a changing, moving, feeling mind, not eternal in components but eternal in continuum. So, like a river and its drops, the rever is eternally flowing but the drops keep changing. Funny, it is much like the reverse of the view that there are eternal elements (dharmas) making up an impermanent whole. Is this really an acceptible view?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 20th, 2010 at 4:58 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana vs Theravada aspirations
Content:
Astus wrote:
The first time I've heard about the 52 stage system was from Ven. Mingzheng from Bailin temple whom under I've studied for a while. As it is based on the Huayan Sutra, it seems kind of common system in East-Asia. I'm not sure of the system's origin, maybe Sanlun, or not.

faith
1-10 ten faiths
understanding
11-20 ten abidings
practice
21-30 ten practices
31-40 ten returnings
41-50 ten stages (10 bhumis)
51 equal enlightenment
enlightenment
52 marvelous enlightenment

More on the 52 stages: http://www.simplybuddhist.com/2007/11/detail-of-52-stages-of-bodhisattva.html


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 20th, 2010 at 2:00 PM
Title: Re: Death of the Arhat
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is this teaching of arhats becoming bodhisattvas after a stay in, well, where exactly? And then buddhas wake them up from, what? So that bodhicitta arises in their, what?

I see a not so small problem with saying that although arhats ended birth they are still born somewhere. Is there somewhere outside samsara? How?
If it is dependent origination they are in, there is no freedom from birth. Independent origination, however, is not possible.

Kirt,

Regarding Tiantai's view, I've just heard about it but don't know any details.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 20th, 2010 at 6:10 AM
Title: Re: Death of the Arhat
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirt,

According to my intention this has nothing to do with Theravada but only the Mahayana view(s) on arhats.

The version you told me is I think the most usual nowadays everywhere. However, it raises a few problems, I think.

What is that parinirvana where an arhat goes to? If it is within samsara, that defies the definition of an arhat. If it is liberation, there is no place or state of mind an arhat could be found. Because it is said an arhat still has some obscurations (jneyavarana), it should mean it is within birth and death. Another option - but I've heard about this only in Tiantai - is that there is a special buddha-realm like dimension where arhats stay. But beyond that I know nothing about such an arhat-realm.

Is there anywhere a clarification of what sort of parinirvana an arhat is exactly in?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 20th, 2010 at 2:59 AM
Title: Death of the Arhat
Content:
Astus wrote:
What happens to the arhat after death from the traditional Mahayana perspective(s)?

I know of two options:
- Attains parinirvana.
- Becomes a bodhisattva.

If he attains parinirvana, is that the same as of a buddha, or not? If it is the same, do buddhas remain active saving beings or no? If they do, obviously arhats would do the same. Same if they don't stay. If it is different, what is the difference? Can there be higher and lower freedom from samsara?

If he becomes a bodhisattva, what is the cause? If it is the decision of the arhat, did he make that decision before, or after death? If before, he was already on the bodhisattva path before death and not that of the arhat. If after, then what mental factor could cause such a decision considering he has released all reliance on the aggregates and the aggregates dispersed at the time of death since there was no reason for them to be born. But if there were some attachments left, how could he be called someone free from samsara, an arhat? Or if the joining of the path of the bodhisattva was caused by somebody else, like a buddha, where could that influence take its effect? If it happened before death, again, it wasn't a death of an arhat. If after, what was influenced?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 19th, 2010 at 12:46 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana vs Theravada aspirations
Content:
Astus wrote:
m0rl0ck,

I didn't elevate study above practice. Practice is the application of what one has heard, studied and understood. If one only knows to count his breath, well, then that's all Buddhism is for him - no problem.

Actually, I don't know any other famous Chan teacher who was illiterate besides the legendary Huineng. Probably because those who were appointed abbots of monasteries were expected to be well versed in Dharma and Vinaya.

The sutra mentioning 7 days, 7 weeks, etc. is the Sutra on the Four Establishments of Mindfulness (in Pali it is the Satipatthana Sutta).

In the early times they didn't read sacred texts but memorised them. And I'm sure it takes longer to memorise at least the basic sutras (like the Mahavagga) then to read them a couple of times and have the book on the shelf.

In case of busy laypeople it is understandable they have neither the time nor the inclination to learn more about the Dharma beyond a few basic concepts, rather do as much practical thing as possible. In the West instead of lighting incense, chanting texts and doing prostrations people go and do some sitting. Quite similar in mentality actually. Simple ways to obtain spiritual goods. That's how Buddhism can be appropriate for both monks and laymen.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 18th, 2010 at 11:17 PM
Title: Re: Tai Situpa in Tricycle
Content:
kirtu said:
In the article HE Tai Situpa basically said that he thought that something closer to mahasiddha practice would be taking place in the West.

Astus wrote:
Didn't notice that part. But that's good news, I guess.

Like, just something I've heard of, Keith Dowman's idea of the "urban yogi".


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 18th, 2010 at 10:29 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana vs Theravada aspirations
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here are some words from Ven. Shengyan:

"The Bodhisattva Path, the realization of wisdom, can be seen as stages of selflessness and nonattachment, as I have jsut de-scribed. But enlightenment can also be seen as activity. Englight-enment  means that you have come to realize what you didn't realize  before. Ch'an recognizes four levels of the activity of enlightenment, and these levels unfold, one after another, over and over again.

At each level you attain a different kind of wisdom. The first level of enlightenment is to hear the Buddhadharma, which gives you the wisdom to answer some of the questions in your life. The second level is to think about the Dharma in order to better understand what you have heard. The wisdom from this level helps you answer questions about the Dharma, and about practice. The third level of enlightenment is to practice what you have learned, both formally in meditations, chanting, pros-trations, etc., and in daily life. The wisdom gained from practice is deeper and allows you to better understand questions you may have about life, your self, and the Dharma. Through practice you learn more about your body, mind, and behavior. Eventu-ally you will experience directly what you have learned intellec-tually. This is the fourth level of enlightenment, when you illuminate your mind and see you intrinsic nature. this is sudden enlightenment. Wisdom becomes visible because vexation and self-centeredness disappear. In that moment, all problems and questions are resolved.

Many practitioners like to focus exclusively on the fourth level of enlightenment, and they neglect the first three stages:listening, studying, and practicing in meditaion and daily life.They want to bypass the preliminary activities and instantly illuminate their minds and reveal their wisdom. Such people are naive and have a poor understanding of Ch'an practice.

Even if you experience the fourth level of enlightenment, it doesn't mean that you have attained Buddhahood. In fact, the enlightenment experience may last only a moment. You will go through the four levels over and over again. Each time you will begin at a new place and learn new things.Each time you will have different experiences. By repeating this cycle again and agian, eventually you can reach complete enlightenment. But we must all start at the beginning. Now you are learning about Buddhadharma. Please practice and cultivate the Dharma as well. Don't seek the fourth level. Just practice. The fourth level will manifest naturally in its own time."
( http://ddc.shengyen.org/cgi-bin/ccdd/show.py?s=09-09p0109 )


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 18th, 2010 at 3:01 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana vs Theravada aspirations
Content:
Astus wrote:
m0rl0ck,

I didn't mean to question your path, or practice. But in my view there is more to Buddhism than "drop all concepts" and "see your nature". The Heart Sutra is a brief extract of the prajnaparamita teachings, like a synopsis of a novel, a zip file of thousands of teachings. Not to mention teachings beyond the prajnaparamita cycle. If the Heart Sutra were enough in itself the Buddha could have stopped teaching twenty minutes after his enlightenment.

Of course, I admit I didn't experience sudden realisation after reading my first ever Zen saying, so I'm not with the highest potential. And I also find studying the sutras and treatises a beneficial method to deepen my understanding and practice of Buddhism. May not be so for everyone.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 18th, 2010 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: 6 Yogas of Naropa Teaching in Mongolia Aug20-Sep1
Content:
Astus wrote:
"As for doing something more general, it's not my style. My own belief is that tantra is self secret. Only those with the karma will show up."

I like his style.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 18th, 2010 at 5:48 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana vs Theravada aspirations
Content:
Astus wrote:
Is it tortuous? Just look at the periodic table of elements, isn't that too much to describe a simple thing like matter? Using earth, water, fire and wind sounds simpler, easier. But we know that knowing only the list of elements is far from enough to make one a chemist or a pharmacist. It can take even a decade in higher education to get a PhD, and that's nothing unusual, not a Nobel prize. Should Buddhism be easier?

"To what were you referring? Merit? How have you observed that in your practice?"

There is the form of meditation called vipasyana, observing the mind (觀心), also dharmasmrtyupasthana, foundation of mindfulness on dharmas (法念住). In brief: watching thoughts. Seeing how phenomena come and go, looking at the work of internal causality. You can learn this from both a meditation teacher (禪師) and meditation manuals, in case you want to try it out. You can use either Theravada or Mahayana, this is a subject they both like to investigate.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 18th, 2010 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana vs Theravada aspirations
Content:
Astus wrote:
Why should have I found an self or person? There is no need for it. Let me give an example, why a self is unnecessary for karma.

We say that information is carried by electrical signs throughout the globe and it is called the internet. Is information separate from electricity, or it's the same? Of course, there is only the current of electrons, of electric charge moving.

Similarly, there is the mental continuum, the fluctuation of dharmas, arising and falling. That rise and fall is not carried on by a soul, or a container. Dharmas come and go according to causal relations, dependent arising. Karma is one of the governing factors of the mental continuum induced by ignorance.

You can find more detailed explanation of the different processes in abhidharma works, including the process of rebirth.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 17th, 2010 at 9:37 PM
Title: Re: 6 Yogas of Naropa Teaching in Mongolia Aug20-Sep1
Content:
Astus wrote:
It appears prices got a lot higher in Mongolia. I mean, if it costs $2000 there, while in the USA (not exactly the cheapest place on Earth) it is "merely" $625-775 ( http://www.guhyasamaja.org/SixYogas2009.htm ) there certainly must be some quality difference. Or not. Perhaps it is that Glenn Mullin has a higher price than Gyume Khensur Rinpoche. I don't know.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 17th, 2010 at 2:31 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana vs Theravada aspirations
Content:
Astus wrote:
No need to take it on faith. It is an understandable, logical teaching that can be personally observed through meditation.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 17th, 2010 at 2:09 PM
Title: Re: to read or know or learn before ordaining
Content:
Astus wrote:
You can study Mahayana sutras in a Theravada monastery on your own, if you have internet for instance, or a good library there.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 17th, 2010 at 2:06 PM
Title: Re: community/compassion etc
Content:
Astus wrote:
I like to use this translation of the http://acmuller.net/bud-canon/diamond_sutra.html. But there are many others online.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 17th, 2010 at 2:04 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana vs Theravada aspirations
Content:
Astus wrote:
"there is no self existent entity to which "merit" can be attached."

Neither is there a self which you can attach a body and clothes on, but I guess you don't run around naked on the streets. Merit is simply "positive karma", and while it may sound too intellectual for you, the work of karma and rebirth works perfectly well in Buddhism exactly because there is no permanent self. Plus there is also "immeasurable merit" of the arya bodhisattvas who practice the prajnaparamita.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 17th, 2010 at 3:31 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana vs Theravada aspirations
Content:
Astus wrote:
Chan teachings may give the impression that there is no system in Mahayana but that is far from the truth. Actually in terms of stages on the path it is more complicated than what you see in Theravada. For instance, in East-Asian Mahayana they teach a 52 stages of enlightenment set based on the Avatamsaka Sutra, and I'm sure you have heard about the ten stages of the bodhisattva. But even in Chan you find stages like the five ranks of Dongshan, or in Japan Hakuin's koan curriculum. Meditation manuals are also available, most famous of them is Zhiyi's Mohezhiguan (Maha-Samatha-Vipasyana). You definitely should look around for more.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 17th, 2010 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: to read or know or learn before ordaining
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://www.fjdh.com/wumin/HTML/82325.html a summary.

"In the Jogye Order, a future member of the community first seeks out a teacher at a temple, has his head shaved or his hair cut very short, and serves as an aspirant apprentice for a period of at least five months. Once the aspirant is accepted, there is a ceremony of the taking of the novice precepts, or training rules. These consist of refining the ethical standards of the individual. After completing four years of basic training in living in the monastery and attending training college where the aspirant learns philosophy and other necessary subjects, candidates then take prescribed examinations and if successful, they then take the full precepts, becoming a monk, bhikkhu, or nun, bhikkhuni.
Once ordained, a new monk will participate in all the daily activities of the temple, including chanting, maintenance, meditation retreats, text study, and so on. Some may be involved in administrative affairs and the teaching of the laity."
http://www.koreanbuddhism.net/jokb/content_view.asp?cat_seq=69&content_seq=201&page=1


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 17th, 2010 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

As I said, I haven't tried yet to search on this subject of Chan lay practice. But what immediately popped up in my mind was this teaching from the Platform Sutra (ch. 3):

The master said, “Good friends, if you wish to cultivate this practice, you may do so either as a householder or in a monastery. Householders who are able to practice this are like those persons of the East whose minds [harbor] good. Those in the monastery who do not cultivate it are like those people of the West whose minds [harbor] evil. It is only that the mind should be pure—then it is the Western [Paradise] of the self-nature!”

Lord Wei asked further, “How can householders cultivate this practice? I hope you will teach us this.” The master said, “I will recite a formless verse for this great assembly. Just cultivate according to this, doing exactly as if you were always with me. If you do not cultivate according to this, what benefit would it be to take the tonsure and leave home [to become a monk]?”
The verse goes:

With the mind universally [the same], why labor to maintain the precepts?
With practice direct, what use is it to cultivate dhyāna?
Gratitude is to be filial in supporting one’s parents
Righteousness is to have sympathy for those above and below.

Self-subordination is to honor the lowly and the familiar.
Forbearance is not to approve of the various evils.
If one is able to rub sticks to create a fire,
The red lotus blossom will certainly grow from the mud.

That which causes the mouth suffering is good medicine.
That which offends the ears is loyal speech.
By reforming transgressions one will necessarily generate wisdom.
To defend shortcomings within one’s mind is not wise.

In one’s daily actions one must always practice the dissemination of benefit [for others].
Accomplishing enlightenment does not depend on donating money.
Bodhi should only be sought for in the mind.
Why belabor seeking for the mysterious externally?

If you hear this explanation and practice accordingly,
The Western [Paradise] is right in front of you.

The master said further, “Good friends, you should all practice according to this verse. See your own natures and directly accomplish the enlightenment of buddhahood!


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, May 16th, 2010 at 7:33 PM
Title: Re: This is it - This is what its all about
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sheaps,

"Even a relatively real existence of self is denied." - said me. By that I referred to concepts like a pudgala, or that there is actually a self on a relative, but not absolute level, that is understood by beings as a self. Even modern teachers may talk about a "small self" or an "ego" that one has to destroy.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 15th, 2010 at 2:54 AM
Title: Re: This is it - This is what its all about
Content:
Astus wrote:
Another, more relevant quote from Nitou's "Song of Mind" ( http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/term/fac/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1307&Itemid=0 ):

三世無物無心無佛。眾生無心依無心出。

In past, present and future, there is nothing;
No mind, no buddha.
Sentient beings are without mind;
Out of no-mind they manifest.

一切莫顧安心無處。無處安心虛明自露。

Do not concern yourself with anything;
Fix the mind nowhere.
Fixing the mind nowhere,
Limitless brightness shows itself.

From Ven. Shengyan's commentary:

"as a self is present, dharmas cannot be understood." and "We must go beyond one-mind to no-mind. Here the mind truly stops on nothing. Only here can one truly be in accordance with all dharmas."


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 15th, 2010 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: This is it - This is what its all about
Content:
Astus wrote:
catmoon,

I'm not so familiar with HHDL's books but the Gelugpa's Prasangika-Madhyamaka is quite strict to the level of the emptiness of emptiness. Even a relatively real existence of self is denied. There is this concept of self and that's it, nothing beyond that. Just a notion, a false notion. Khedrup Je, the 1st Panchen Lama explains the nature of self in their system,
The fact that if it is searched for in these seven ways (Candrakirti's chariot analysis) no self at all is to be found is what it means for the self to be essenceless. This, however, does not repudiate the fact that, if it is not analyzed, the notion of person is a functional one. It being established by a nominal valid cognition, the person does nominally exist. What is more, when the mind that thinks "I" arises, it does so in dependence on, that is, using as a basis, the five aggregates within one's on continuum [if one is in the form realm or below], and the four, [excluding the form aggregate, if one is a formless being]. Without using [such a basis it would not arise] and that is why it [is said] to be merely labeled in dependence on the aggregates.
(Dose of Emptiness, p. 290)


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 14th, 2010 at 10:58 PM
Title: Re: Truly ethical governments: Have there ever been any?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Luke,

I guess the Vatican fits that three requirements. Perhaps other countries like Luxembourg, San Marino, Monaco too.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 14th, 2010 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Yes, PrajnaParamita in 8000 lines, but PP8000 sounds better.
The verse is of course from the Ratnagunasamcayagatha's relevant part.

However, the PP8000 is not Conze but Richard Babcock.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 14th, 2010 at 8:30 PM
Title: Re: Truly ethical governments: Have there ever been any?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

You're right. The government is there to keep order. In the Aganna Sutta (DN 27) it is outlined how greed resulted in the creation of the position of a judge, from which the position of a king became, and from vices new laws created. So from this point of view, a government is always a way of oppressing disturbing elements of society. But again, we should define what ethics to use. DN 26 gives a nice description of the perfect ruler, a sort of socialist state.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 14th, 2010 at 5:40 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Something about the lay path debated here for a little:

"They do not want fame, their hearts are not overcome by anger.
As householders they remain constantly unattached to their entire property.
They do not seek to earn their livelihood in the wrong way,
Through bewitchment-spells, or the spells which are the work of women.

Nor do they [earn a living by] tell[ing] plausible lies to men and women.
Practised in the quite detached wisdom, the best of perfections,
Free from quarrels and disputes, their thoughts firmly friendly,
They want [to see] the all-knowing, their thoughts always inclined towards the religion."

PP8000, ch. 17 said:
When one lives the life of a householder, one has no great love for pleasant things, and one does not want these too much. For, it is realized that it's with fear and disgust one possesses all pleasant things. [fear of the possessed item's loss, and disgust at their decrepitude or lacking being better than what it is]. Situated in a wilderness infested with robbers one would eat one's meals in fear, and with the constant thought [333] of getting away, of getting out of this wilderness, and not with repose.

Just so an irreversible Bodhisattva living the life of a householder, possesses pleasant things simply without caring for too much for them, without eagerness, without attachment. One is not one of these people who care for dear and pleasant forms. These who live the lives of householders and who are involved in the five kinds of sensuous pleasures do not earn their living in an irregular way, but in the right way. Neither do these incur death in a state of sin, nor do these inflict injuries on others. These incite all beings to realize this supreme happiness, -these worthy beings, these great beings, superbeings, excellent beings, splendid beings, powerful of beings, sublime beings, valiant beings, heroes of beings, leaders of beings, waterlilies of beings, lotuses of beings, thoroughbred beings, Nagas of beings, lions of beings, trainers of beings! It is in this spirit which Bodhisattvas live the life of householders, in as much as these are impregnated with the power of perfection of wisdom, and this is another token of their irreversibility.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 14th, 2010 at 5:34 PM
Title: Re: Nichiren's interpretation of the Pure Land
Content:
Astus wrote:
Looks very much like that.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 14th, 2010 at 4:18 PM
Title: Re: Truly ethical governments: Have there ever been any?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Perhaps the "United Federation of Planets" could be counted among ethical governments, mainly because it is fictional. Another similar idea is the Wheel-Turning King of the golden era - whose heirs inevitably become corrupt by the time. I suppose there is also ethical government in divine societies like the heaven of the brahmas. As for Planet Earth, the Saha Loka, in the present era I can hardly imagine that. I mean, there clould have been wonderful governments in a land of peace and prosperity. Maybe there are some. Until some bigger tribe, bigger nation came and conquered the land, enslaved the population and moved in their own sons and daughters to rule.

By the way, it wasn't clear what ethics should be used to define ethical governments. Plato? Macchiavelli? Confucius? Cicero?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 14th, 2010 at 3:28 PM
Title: Re: This is it - This is what its all about
Content:
Astus wrote:
I didn't find his teaching a nihilist one at all. Just because he says nothingness rather than emptiness is not necessarily annihilationist. To say that you find nothing like a self if you search for it is not contrary to the Buddha's teaching.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 14th, 2010 at 3:44 AM
Title: Re: This is it - This is what its all about
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm not asking these questions as if I wanted an answer personally for myself but as part of our discussion, questions I raised for you - or whoever is up for a discussion.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 14th, 2010 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: This is it - This is what its all about
Content:
m0rl0ck said:
Having practiced zen/chan over the better part of two decades, this has not been my experience.

Astus wrote:
What other quality control is there? Do people learn to evaluate their progress on the path or it is always the teacher who tells it? Is the study of the Buddha's teachings encouraged at all? Isn't the teacher a person with the seal of enlightenment? Isn't the teacher required to do the koan practice?

m0rl0ck said:
It does emphasize practice and experience however.

Astus wrote:
Which is fine. However, it is not irrelevant to ask what practice consists of. There is this tendency to regard only formal meditation as practice, which is again I think is a narrow view. Practice can and should include all that are the six paramitas, starting with giving and moral conduct.

m0rl0ck said:
Practice that leads to the same kind of experience that the speaker in my original post in this thread is talking about.

Astus wrote:
It'd be a good idea to compare such koan practice with something more organised practice. With a fine samatha basis one engages in systematic vipasyana, that way insight into no-self is pretty much guaranteed. No surprises, no waiting for enlightenment but gradually progressing on the path. It doesn't sound like sudden enlightenment when one fumbles with a koan for many years to get a sight of emptiness. Make no mistakes, I don't say koan practice is ineffective, it is indeed a very powerful stuff as I see. But I believe systematic progress is more reliable and effective on a large scale, if one is actually clear about the way.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 13th, 2010 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: Tai Situpa in Tricycle
Content:
Astus wrote:
What I meant is that not everyone has to be a Geshe or Khenpo level teacher, which means lot of textual and philosophical knowledge. Look at the Zen teachers (in the West), most of them know only a couple of texts but still can teach meditation and the necessary things. Same goes for Tibetan yogis, I believe. You don't have to know everything from Asanga to Zendo (Shandao) to teach hundreds of people how to do bowing and sitting. And if a teachers knows one or two sadhanas, that's OK, that's something people can learn and gain enlightenment with.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 13th, 2010 at 10:55 PM
Title: Re: Tai Situpa in Tricycle
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Indeed, as I said, support is very important. Shakyamuni had wealthy friends, no wonder he could obtain some groves and parks already in his life.

I think Vajrayana is quite appropriate for lay people, espeically looking at the mahasiddhas. So there shouldn't be too much need for monastics to have Western teachers. There are some who teach, like James Low, Shenpen Hookham, Keith Dowman, Myrdhin Reynolds, Surya Das, the very famous Ole Nydhal, etc. It may not be the whole curriculum, but some essential practice. However, it could be that such people don't look as authentic as Tibetans.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 13th, 2010 at 9:15 PM
Title: Re: Tai Situpa in Tricycle
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think there are some really good Theravadin teachers around, same goes for Zen teachers. Of course, not everyone is top class - in my opinion - but people like Bhikkhu Bodhi and the late Daido Loori are admirable teachers. Theravada has already a considerable number of monasteries around with Western monks and some nuns. It appears to me Theravada in quality and ordained members are pretty beyond any other Buddhist tradition - in the West.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 13th, 2010 at 8:12 PM
Title: Re: Tai Situpa in Tricycle
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Until that happens, Tibetan dharma for Westerners remains inseparable from Tibetan culture and language, Tibetan ways and mentality."

Maybe he meant only Vajrayana transmission? As I can see, there are only a handful of Mantra teachers who are Westerners, unlike in Theravada and Zen. On the other hand, Tibetans have left their homeland so they're here to teach.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 13th, 2010 at 3:36 PM
Title: Re: This is it - This is what its all about
Content:
Astus wrote:
I was talking about the speech itself, not Sanbo Kyodan as a whole. But I guess as he is the leader of the group what he says is a representative introduction of their view.

Focusing only on the experience of emptiness might look like the common theme of every Zen teaching. But actually such teachings were for the meditation hall mainly and not for every situation and every stage of training.

It is true that Sanbo Kyodan was the best in spreading Zen to Americans, thanks for those who went to Japan after WW2. It seems very likely that their opennes to foreigners and adaptability to modern views helped achieve that.

Also, it is not so minimalist to focus only on enlightenment. First of all, the idea of transmission is carried on as a validating and governing system. Then there is the koan system, rituals, vows, robes, statues. Although they say it is not Buddhism but their name is Three Treasures, which they take refuge in, they originate their teaching from Shakyamuni and the Zen patriarchs, they teach Buddhist teachings, etc.

I think what Ryoun Roshi said was the PR part. Not that I say there is some secret teaching behind it, but the whole teaching does seem like something not at all far from Japanese Buddhism. This is how the Roshi kept referring again and again to Buddhism. It's like holding up a stick and saying it is not a stick.

True, this view that no matter what you believe in you can do Zen is attracting for those with little or no religious background. At the same time, it creates a very narrow path where only the Zen teacher represents anything valid, because he is the embodiment of enlightenment. Looks very much like the Tantric idea of a guru.

This makes Zen "user friendly" for the masses, which looks like their goal actually. So it is fine. But it doesn't provide a complete training in Buddhism, for that one would need to look at other groups.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 13th, 2010 at 4:05 AM
Title: Re: This is it - This is what its all about
Content:
Astus wrote:
It was entertaining to hear such a strong, masculine Japanese accent. Doumo arigatou!

But let's look at the content too.

- Zen is not a religion, not Buddhism, so Christians and others can do it too
- Sanbo Kyodan focuses on original Buddhism, which is the enlightenment of Shakyamuni
- The essence is selflessness (anatma), ie. people cannot die (amrta), this is seeing nature (nirvana)
- Science is very much compatible with Zen
- Sanbo Kyodan is the only Zen group in Japan focusing on the essential experience
- People really can experience this essence on retreats

This is so modern, a stripped Zen, fit for those who reject everything religion but embrace science.

I have one question, however. If Zen is separate from Buddhism, not a religion at all, then who tells what true nature is? I'm pretty sure Christians have their own ideas about the nature of man's soul, for instance that it is sinful.

And I put down the "essential" part of the speech, about the meaning of Zen, the universe, and everything.

I say, people don't die. More sharply, people cannot die. Even if you want to, you can't die. Why? Because there is no self who's dying. If there is no self, how you can die? This is the discovery. This is the absolute solution. [?] You cant die. Look into it, nobody there, nothing there. There's no self, then how you can die, when there's nothing there? That is the discovery, that's all. That's all. This is all about Buddhism. [...] but you cannot get this nothing at all, really. You cant see anything at all. You can never die because this nothing at all, nothing-at-all-ness, this is your true self.

(24:38 - 25:46)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 13th, 2010 at 1:42 AM
Title: Re: Tai Situpa in Tricycle
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here's what I meant. Sorry for bringing up a Chinese example but I'm pretty ignorant in Tibetan Buddhism.

The three most famous Zen teachers of all time are Bodhidharma, Huineng (the so called 6th patriarch) and Linji (Rinzai in Japanese). They're considered people who attained sudden enlightenment and reached buddhahood. What do we actually know about them that can be historically attested? Almost nothing. What we know is that their stories and teachings are mostly the products of later ages. For instance, the fame of Huineng (who was illiterate according to the story) is primarily because of a monk called Shenhui, who claimed to be the Dharma-heir of Huineng, and was a controversial figure of his time. While some of Shenhui's teachings could survive, in the last 1300 years nobody really cared about those, unlike things attributed to Huineng which were not taught by him at all.

Waiting for a "greatly enlightened master with a rainbow body" is like waiting for Maitreya to come. Actually, the single person respected by all Western Buddhists and many non-Buddhists is His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Indeed, if we look around in Europe and America, Tibetan Buddhism is thriving. On the other hand, Zen and Theravada is doing quite well too, even if they have no universal celebrity.

It sounds good to name a single person responsible for something awesome like establishing Buddhism in a country. But in fact, even Shakyamuni Buddha couldn't make Buddhism a major religion in India single-handedly, so there were his disciples who he sent out to spread the word, and the disciples of disciples, etc., and there was Ashoka, so on and so forth.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 12th, 2010 at 7:25 PM
Title: Re: Tai Situpa in Tricycle
Content:
Astus wrote:
Looking at the history of Buddhism throughout different lands, great supporters made the Dharma flourish, in most cases the king and local lords. That is hardly possible now as in Western countries the state is secular. But companies (Korea, Japan, Taiwan) can still put lot of money into it.

As for the "enlightened master", I believe that those who is remembered by later generations as great teachers are seen that way thanks for many circumstances. Those who were considered great masters of one era may be forgot in a hundred years. Disciples make teachers great. Disciples can persist because of the tradition being supported. Thus it is an important factor to have enough followers made of people in important and powerful positions.

"History is written by the victors"


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 12th, 2010 at 1:10 AM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakosa study group?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sounds fascinating. But I don't promise any participation except for occasionally looking at what is going on.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 11th, 2010 at 4:09 AM
Title: Re: Wu.
Content:
Dexing said:
wú 無, wù 悟, and wǔ 五

Astus wrote:
Try the Japanese reading: mu/bu, go, go. No tones, no problem.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 11th, 2010 at 2:40 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Myth of Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
What do we mean by "school"? In Chinese the word is 宗 (zōng​) that can mean a lot of things. I would say it is more like a "school of thought" than an institutional thing. Or, to be truer to the original word, it means "clan" - they are separate separate families (the "five houses" are in fact "five families" 五家) with a common ancestor. Master Huifeng can explain it much better how family relationship terms are used in Chan and Chinese Buddhism. Another interesting term here regarding transmitting the Dharma is that it is called a "blood vessel" (血脈) which passes through generations. But this is not as strict as it appears to be in Tantra - others may disagree. So it is one thing how a group of people wants to look in the eyes of outsiders and history is another thing. It is like with Buddhism and its many traditions. Every tradition likes to look like the original and true teaching of Shakyamuni Buddha, and in some sense they all are. Every Chan group says they're the heirs of Bodhidharma, which is true in a religious and historical sense. It's just that things are not always what they appear to be.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 11th, 2010 at 2:09 AM
Title: Re: Wu.
Content:
Astus wrote:
This is "wu" from the gongan: 無 - it means "no"
This is "wu" that in Japanese stands for "satori": 悟 - it means "comprehension"
And this is "wu": 五 - which means "5"


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 11th, 2010 at 2:03 AM
Title: Re: Eating Meat vs. Drinking Alcohol--Which is worse?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dexing,

Compare these two:

“Bodhisattvas and bhikshus who practice purity will not even step on grass in the pathway; even less will they pull it up with their hand. How can one with great compassion pick up the flesh and blood of living beings and proceed to eat his fill? Bhikshus who do not wear silk, leather boots, furs, or down from this country or consume milk, cream, or butter can truly transcend this world. When they have paid back their past debts, they will not have to re-enter the Triple Realm. ... Both physically and mentally one must avoid the bodies and the by-products of living beings, by neither wearing them nor eating them. I say that such people have true liberation."
(Surangama Sutra, ch. 5)

"Kasyapa said again to the Buddha: "If the Tathagata means to prohibit the eating of meat, such things as the five kinds of flavours as milk, cream, fresh butter, clarified butter, and sarpirmanda, all kinds of clothing, silk cloth, horse-shoe shell, hide and leather, bowls of gold and silver should not be received." "O good man! Do not muddle things up with what the Nirgranthas [Jains] say. Each of the prohibitions which the Tathagata lays down has a different meaning. By this, three pure meats are permitted standing on different grounds and the ten kinds of meat are prohibited by different standpoints. By different standpoints, all are prohibited, until the time of one's death. O Kasyapa! "I, from now on, tell my disciples to refrain from eating any kind of meat"."
(Nirvana Sutra, ch. 7)

Interestingly enough, what the Surangama Sutra prohibits is called the teaching of Jains in the Nirvana Sutra.

Dexing said:
Being a consumer, paying for the meat you are directly linking yourself to the kill.

Astus wrote:
I understand direct link to mean immediately involved and indirect link to be involved via separate steps. That way being a consumer is an indirect link. But again, I didn't say a meat eater cannot be linked to the killing of animals but that there is no killing, or the intention of killing on his part. Therefore using and consuming animal products is not negative karma. And it shouldn't be forgot that karma is personal and not something that could be produced by someone else.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 10th, 2010 at 7:45 PM
Title: Re: Eating Meat vs. Drinking Alcohol--Which is worse?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

I don't question at all that not eating meat is related to some lessening in production. All I've argued for that meat eating is not breaking the precept against killing or taking the karma of killing. On the other hand, it is breaking the precept against meat eating of course, if one has taken that vow.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 10th, 2010 at 6:45 PM
Title: Re: Eating Meat vs. Drinking Alcohol--Which is worse?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirt,

Hungary is a NATO country, not just money but soldiers too go to the war. To make it worse, I work for an American company.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 10th, 2010 at 6:42 PM
Title: Re: Eating Meat vs. Drinking Alcohol--Which is worse?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

"By eating meat, however, you are basically having someone else do something that you yourself are probably not willing to do."

Please, make a difference between intentional act and interconnectedness. There is neither the karma of kiling nor the breaking of the precept against taking lives involved in buying a sausage. There is no moral responsiblity in what one hasn't done. I may give some money to a homeless person from what he buys liquour, or meat, or a knife to take lives and rob people. I may buy something on a flea market that was stolen. This is being connected with many bad things, being connected with the entire society.

There are many other products which involve killing of animals, like soaps, shoes, jackets, glue, medicine, make ups, etc. And in case one would use synthetised ingredients, such chemicals may very well harm animals (like fish) when they make contact with it through sewage water, etc. What to do about these things? Am I morally responsible for the death of a cow/pig if I wash my hands? And there was no mention of pesticides used in farming, killing thousands of animals and polluting the air and the soil.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 10th, 2010 at 5:31 PM
Title: Re: Eating Meat vs. Drinking Alcohol--Which is worse?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

One shouldn't confuse killing with eating meat. They are not the same. The precept against killing includes asking someone else to do it, includes even telling others that it is OK to kill. But if you don't ask for it, it is not killed for you, there is no harm on one's "precept-body", neither is there intentional act (karma) of killing involved.

If eating meat is a problem because (in most cases) it is a result of someone killing an animal, and by buying meat one indirectly is involved in the meat industry, paying taxes is even more problematical. Or, for instance, I work at an IT company that I know is involved in government and military things too, therefore my work indirectly supports the soldiers on the battlefield.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 10th, 2010 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: Welcome to Astus, Our New Mahayana Administrator
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thanks guys!

May I receive the merits of past Cakravartins for the welfare of all and offer the merits gained for the peace and smashing discussions on DharmaWheel.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 10th, 2010 at 3:27 AM
Title: Re: Eating Meat vs. Drinking Alcohol--Which is worse?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dexing,

Funny and wise!


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 10th, 2010 at 3:24 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Myth of Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
Regarding transmission in China I had a topic somewhat relevant to the question: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1219.

There are numerous studies (well, not too much) on Chan history covering the time from Bodhidharma to the 20th century, although I haven't yet met (which doesn't mean there isn't) anything substantial on the Yuan era (1271-1368, Mongolian rule) or the Qing (1644-1911, Manchu rule).

Even though historical records show that the internal (religious) history of Chan is far from being accurate, it doesn't mean there were no Chan followers - ie. at some point it stopped being practised - since its rise around the 11th century. Chan became an integral part of Chinese Buddhism, its end would mean the cease of Buddhism. There were of course periods when Chan wasn't popular, nevertheless, popularity is not a requirement for existence.

As for the survival of lineages, just as Dexing says, both Linji and Caodong exist in China. The Caodong tradition actually has a stronger claim for historical continuity as it was preserved in the world famous Shaolin monastery and spread out from there in the Ming dynasty Chan revival. Although that doesn't mean it is different from what is practised in the Linji lineage. Also, another source of confusion is that people mainly here about Japanese Zen, which is a separate development with its own 800 years of history. Another noteworthy phenomenon is that Ven. Xuyun (1840-1959) - the most well known Chan master of the last century - is said to be a lineage holder of all five schools of Chan, that's how for instance Ven. Xuanhua (founder of the City of Ten Thousand Buddhas) was in the lineage of the Weiyang school (which didn't survive beyond the Song dynasty, so there is a leap/gap in the transmission).

An important thing to understand about East-Asian Buddhism is that there is very little or no sectarianism at all, unlike in Japan (which has its historical reasons of course). Thus you find Chinese teachers passing on many forms of teaching: Chan, Pure Land, Esoteric, Vinaya, Tiantai, Huayan, etc., while at the same time they may be specialist in any of them. If I remember correctly, Hashang Mohoyen is credited not only with teaching Chan in Tibet but also many sutras.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 8th, 2010 at 4:25 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan Myth of Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
Bummer. It is another myth that there is no Chan but in Japan only. Obviously there is Chan in China, some teachers have even come to the West (Ven. Xuanhua [City of Ten Thousand Buddhas], Ven. Shengyan [Dharma Drum Mountain], Ven. Xingyun [Fo Guang Shan]).

There are certain concepts shared by the different lineages (similar to greater groups like Madhyamaka, Mantrayana), like the teaching of sudden enlightenment and buddha-nature. By Chan here I generally referred to (1) common basics of the "Bodhidharma School", (2) the schools present around the 7-8th centuries.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 8th, 2010 at 3:52 PM
Title: Re: Faith
Content:
Astus wrote:
An interesting read: http://ftp.buddhism.org/Publications/IABTC/Vol12_Munsun%20Kang_-On%20the%20Meaning%20of%20Faith.pdf by Munsun Kang (Ven. Hyewon)


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 8th, 2010 at 7:24 AM
Title: Re: The virgin birth of Gautama.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Will,

No problem with immaculate birth. Still, as the original quote here says, it was an illusion. Physical, bodily birth happens depending on three components, so we have it in the abhidharma teachings. We could say the Buddha was not a womb-born but a spontaneously-born being. But I'm not sure it'd then count as a human birth. So it gets a bit messy if we analyse it a bit. Still, I'm open for explanations.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 8th, 2010 at 5:08 AM
Title: Re: Eating Meat vs. Drinking Alcohol--Which is worse?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

It shows perfectly why being a butcher is listed specifically among wrong livelihoods right there in the noble eightfold path.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 8th, 2010 at 3:44 AM
Title: Re: Eating Meat vs. Drinking Alcohol--Which is worse?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirt,

Maybe there is some misunderstanding here. I didn't say alcohol is OK for anyone according to any set of precepts mentioned. I've also mentioned how certain kinds of meat are forbidden for monks. I've said nothing about the Brahmajala Sutra itself, only that meat eating is one of the minor precepts in it (the 3rd), just like drinking (the 2nd).

It'd be actually nice of you to outline tantric precepts about meat and alcohol.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, May 8th, 2010 at 2:54 AM
Title: Re: Eating Meat vs. Drinking Alcohol--Which is worse?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Let's look at the textual part.

The Pratimoksha (monks' rules) forbids alcohol but only certain meats, both are a minor precept.
The five, eight, ten precepts forbid alcohol, say nothing about meat.
The 10 major bodhisattva precepts forbid selling alcohol, the 48 minor precepts forbid both alcohol and meat. (Brahmajala Sutra - Chinese tradition)
Neither the primary (18), nor the secondary (46) bodhisattva vows forbid meat eating, and alcohol only by referring to other precepts (Tibetan tradition)

As for sutras on meat (those I can think of now):

The Lankavatara Sutra forbids eating meat.
The Surangama Sutra forbids eating meat and everything else of animal origin, or contact with animal products.
The Nirvana Sutra forbids eating meat but allows other animal products to be consumed and used.

Conclusion:

Alcohol consumption is against the precepts, however, in itself it is karmically neutral.
Meat consumption is against only one version of minor bodhisattva precepts, its karmic negativity is minimum dubious.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 7th, 2010 at 11:20 PM
Title: Re: The virgin birth of Gautama.
Content:
Astus wrote:
OK then, I think it should be renamed from "virgin birth" into "cesarean birth". Or rename cesarean section to buddha section.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 7th, 2010 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan Myth of Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
Yes, Chan is Chan, Dzogchen is Vajrayana. They aren't even spelt the same way. Nevertheless, it is still intriguing to see some common features too. But my aim here is simply to show a clearer picture of Chan - the sudden path to buddha-mind.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 7th, 2010 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: The virgin birth of Gautama.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Will,

Thanks for the reference. I still sounds strange that a baby came out of a woman's side. Did it make a hole? Or is it a special siddhi to "walk through" bellies? Just trying to imagine what the writers thought...


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 7th, 2010 at 8:14 PM
Title: Tibetan Myth of Chan
Content:
Astus wrote:
I've been reading the commentaries to an analysis on the Samye debate and its circumstances ( http://earlytibet.com/2010/03/31/tibetan-chan-iv/ ). And then I thought how interesting it is that while there are so many books and other sources on Chan, people still have the same misunderstandings about it in Tibetan Buddhism.

Chan is not a single school. There is not a single person who could represent everyone. One teacher is responsible for what he teaches personally and represents only his own lineage and monastery/church. Also Chan teachers can be quite independent. In the 7th-8th century, when Chinese teachers were roaming Tibetan land, there were many different groups in China that could be identified as belonging to the Chan movement. I say this in order to avoid simplification of what Chan is.

A reoccurring critique and usual argument to differentiate Chan view from Dzogchen (nb. I don't say they're the same!) is that Chan knows nothing about the aware nature of mind but only the empty. That is of course not so.

Another misconception is that Chan disregards gradual teachings. First of all, within the Chan tradition different meditation techniques have always been used, both common Mahayana methods and special Chan teachings. On the other hand, it is essentially a sudden path - direct realisation of buddha-mind - but that doesn't mean the denial of the efficacy of gradual methods.

Third misconception is about Chan being only (or mostly) a samatha meditation. First of all, as far as its suddenness goes, Chan is direct seeing of buddha-mind, therefore development in meditation is irrelevant. Second, the techniques used for stage by stage progress cover both samatha and vipasyana, plus many other things Mahayana has. Third, just because it is called Chan (a derivative of Sanskrit dhyana) doesn't mean it's all about sitting in meditation and nothing else.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 7th, 2010 at 4:17 PM
Title: Re: The virgin birth of Gautama.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Master Huifeng,

Are you saying that's what the original sutra talks about?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 7th, 2010 at 3:39 PM
Title: Re: What are your favourite Mahayana Sutras?
Content:
Astus wrote:
At the moment:

- Vimalakirti Sutra
- Perfect Enlightenment Sutra (圓覺經)
- Avatamsaka Sutra


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 7th, 2010 at 3:24 PM
Title: Re: The virgin birth of Gautama.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

OK, my bad. I think we can go on with this illusory part and say that even our seemingly ordinary birth is illusory. Vimilakirti looked like a busy layman, but it was all an illusion, for all is illusion. Whether we realise it or not, it is an illusion. But to see it as an illusion, that all is mind made (manomayakaya), is the point of it. Of course, we can still take it on another level how the Buddha had a magical birth unlike ordinary beings.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, May 7th, 2010 at 6:05 AM
Title: Re: The virgin birth of Gautama.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Catmoon,

Don't you see the Zen in what Vimalakirti says? First he gives a long speech on how the Buddha's body is beyond concepts and is the diamond-hard dharma-body, then at the end tells Ananda to bring the Buddha the milk he asked for.

There is no illogic in the Diamond Sutra. It is the teaching of emptiness, of prajnaparamita, of the whole deep wisdom of enlightenment. Perhaps you can look around for some explanation on it, or start a topic in the Sutra Studies section, or Mahayana.

Will,

Conception was through the side of Maya but not birth. Such a birth would be really strange!
Here we shouldn't forget the 3 component requirement of a foetus - sperm, egg, mind. So the Bodhisattva "moving in" through the side may not refer to any kind of immaculate conception.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 6th, 2010 at 10:14 PM
Title: Re: The virgin birth of Gautama.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

Very good questions. The Vimalakirti Sutra says,

"He had a son, a wife, and female attendants, yet always maintained continence. He appeared to be surrounded by servants, yet lived in solitude. He appeared to be adorned with ornaments, yet always was endowed with the auspicious signs and marks. He seemed to eat and drink, yet always took nourishment from the taste of meditation."

And at another place,

"Reverend Ananda, the Tathagatas have the body of the Dharma - not a body that is sustained by material food. ... Ananda, do not be ashamed, and go and get the milk!"

The Diamond Sutra sums up neatly,

"What the Tathāgata calls a perfectly-formed body is not a perfectly-formed body. Hence it is called a perfectly-formed body."


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 6th, 2010 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: The virgin birth of Gautama.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Does Vasubandhu actually affirm that there is a real cause for unreal effects? It is contradictory by the way. No, those are just examples. Vasubandhu doesn't say that mind is real, that's a misinterpretation of mind only.

Causal efficacy works within illusion and not something real creating the illusion. It's more like in the Srimaladevi Sutra, shadowmen killing each other.

But perhaps you could find some other references on the paragraph you quoted.

Catmoon,

Virgin birth has everything to do with liberation from suffering. It is understanding the nature of things, seeing truth. Yoni śo-manaskāra!


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 6th, 2010 at 9:36 PM
Title: Re: The virgin birth of Gautama.
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'd rather vote for the whole conception-birth as an illusion. If only the conception was unreal but birth real, well, tricky causal situation, don't you think? Not to forget that the whole buddha-life story was an illusion. Well, in Mahayana.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 6th, 2010 at 9:21 PM
Title: Re: The virgin birth of Gautama.
Content:
Astus wrote:
Says he had an illusion body. Nirmanakaya (化身 - 身化). Looked as if it was from father and mother, but wasn't. Half a parent could still be "half real/impure".


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 6th, 2010 at 9:04 PM
Title: Re: The virgin birth of Gautama.
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't see the "virgin birth" part here. That would presume he had at least a mother. But it says he had no parents at all.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, May 6th, 2010 at 4:09 AM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Of course there is no proof that such a text was actually written by Bodhidharma, but it is not a Dunhuang script either (such texts can be found in the "Bodhidharma Anthology" by Jeffrey L. Broughton). Nevertheless, it was preserved in China as a teaching attributed to Bodhidharma, which tells more about its acceptance in the canon rather than its author.

I haven't yet explored this area, but apparently there have always a group of laymen involved in Chan from the early times on. Broughton actually mentions that Huangbo's Wanling record was meant for laymen. And I don't mean such non-monastic people were only interested in theory but enlightenment too.

As in China the literati, so in the west the educated middle-class people are interested in Buddhism the most. And while obviously the Dharma is preserved among the ordained, its practice has never been restricted to them at all, neither its full realisation. An interesting study by Piya Tan based on the Pali Canon: http://earlypalisutta.googlepages.com/8.6Laymansaintspiya.pdf.

Make no mistake, I'm not saying that a lay life would be ideal for the path, nor that ordination is useless. I am only arguing for not excluding lay people. Dahui wrote (Swampland Flowers, p. 33-34): "When has it ever been necessary to leave wife and children, quit one's job, chew on vegetable roots, and cause pain to the body?" He talks exactly about how it is possible to attain enlightenment as a busy layman. As Layman Pang summed up: "Carry water and haul firewood" (運水及搬柴)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 5th, 2010 at 10:54 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Getting laid and enlightened simultaneously is an Anuttarayogatantra speciality, not really my cup of tea. As for Chan, it only says that normal laypeople can do it, that's what Bodhidharma and others said. No wonder they liked to quote the Vimalakirti Sutra so often.

I had a debate with myself on the subject whether Chan can really be a path to enlightenment, within this life, or it is rather Pure Land that is more appropriate. I came to the conclusion that Chan does work, it is a fine path even for a lay man like me. But I'm open for any criticism and advice, especially open for a good debate (just like this here, or more intense). Right now I have no doubts about Chan.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 5th, 2010 at 9:31 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Here's an interesting one from Bodhidharma's Bloodstream Sermon:

"But since married laymen don’t give up sex, bow can they become Buddhas? 
I only talk about seeing your nature. I don’t talk about sex simply because you don’t see your nature. Once you see your nature, sex is basically immaterial. It ends along with your delight in it. Even if some habits remain’, they can’t harm you, because your nature is essentially pure. Despite dwelling in a material body of four elements, your nature is basically pure. It can’t be corrupted."
(Red Pine translation, X63n1218_p0004c08-12)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 5th, 2010 at 8:05 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
kirtu said:
This in fact is the point with Pure Land practice (at least from a Tibetan Buddhist perspective). If one doesn't attain the bhumi's in this life or the bardo after death we go to the Pure Lands, attain the bhumis eventually, attain enlightenment and then send out emanations to continue bodhisattic activity. Total win-win.

Astus wrote:
Nice.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 5th, 2010 at 8:04 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

I think this lust-dhyana relationship came up before somewhere here. You said it doesn't mean final elimination of lust but temporary. Now, I'm sure there is no person who is always in a lustful state of mind. Lust is rather an emotion that comes up from time to time, and when it happens indeed one is quite busy with looking for satisfaction. However, at other times one could as well sit down and focus his mind. But even in times of strong emotions one can maintain awareness and not be moved. As the Satipatthana Sutta says, "And how does a monk remain focused on the mind in & of itself? There is the case where a monk, when the mind has passion, discerns that the mind has passion. When the mind is without passion, he discerns that the mind is without passion." Nothing impossible here.

Your Nagarjuna quote is very similar to Dhammapada 372.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 5th, 2010 at 6:40 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
It actually sounds like a love story. A guy is looking for perfect love in every woman, expects everything to go smoothly from the first moment on but after a month or two it always turns out it is not perfect, so they break up. This is the disappointment in sudden enlightenment. Then the guy thinks he should work on a single relationship, love has to be earned and maintained. He sticks to one lady, they spend decades together until one day the guy realises no matter how hard he works it is never perfect love. This is the disappointment in gradual enlightenment. Then this guy goes to a witch to do some magic and get him perfect love. But perfect love never comes near his door. This is the disappointment in enlightenment by transformation. So our poor fellow is now left with hoping that in the next life things will go better. This is aspiring for a buddha-land.

And this is how I approach this now. The single problem lies in the concept of "perfect love". It is thinking that "when things will be better then I can do it", "when there are no more thoughts about sex I may be a non-returner". That's how seeing the emptiness of self and things, understanding mind only, realising the illusion of concepts is the path of liberation, actually, liberation itself. Not so difficult, not so easy, needs a little training here and there, but understandable, something (theoretically) everyone can do but (actually) only a few does.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 5th, 2010 at 5:35 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

One of the many wonderful qualities of sutras is that they like to talk about the reader and their level of attainment as relevant to the subject discussed. In the http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra13.html:

"The Buddha told Śāriputra, “If good men or good women, having heard such profound prajñā-pāramitā, can come to resoluteness in their minds, not shocked, not terrified, not baffled, and not regretful, we should know that they stand on the Ground of No-regress. If those who have heard this profound prajñā-pāramitā are not shocked, not terrified, not baffled, and not regretful, but believe, accept, appreciate, and listen tirelessly, they have in effect fulfilled dāna-pāramitā, śīla-pāramitā, kṣānti-pāramitā, vīrya-pāramitā, dhyāna-pāramitā, and prajñā-pāramitā. Moreover, they can reveal and explicate [the teachings] to others and can have them train accordingly.”"

The Manjusri PP Sutra is a good one that was used by Daoxin for instance to describe Chan practice as the One Act Samadhi. Also in this sutra there is a discussion of merits too.

"If good men or good women aspire to enter the One Action Samādhi, they should sit properly in an open place, facing the direction of a Buddha, abandon distracting thoughts and appearances, focus their minds on that Buddha, and keep saying His name. If they can continue, thought after thought, thinking of one Buddha, they will be able to see, in their thinking, past, future, and present Buddhas. Why? The merit from thinking of one Buddha is immeasurable and boundless, no different from the merit from thinking of innumerable Buddhas or thinking of the inconceivable Buddha Dharma. They all will ride the one suchness and attain the perfect enlightenment, commanding immeasurable merit and eloquence."

"If good men and good women who have heard these words do not become negligent or indolent, we should know that they have already planted their roots of goodness under past Buddhas. Therefore, if bhikṣus and bhikṣuṇīs who have heard this profound prajñā-pāramitā are not shocked or terrified, they have truly renounced family life to follow the Buddha. If upāsakas and upāsikās who have heard this profound prajñā-pāramitā are not shocked or terrified, they have truly taken refuge [in the Buddha]."

This is all very much in harmony with the other Chan-favoured text, the http://acmuller.net/bud-canon/diamond_sutra.html:

"If you see all characteristics to be non-characteristics, then you see the Tathāgata."

"Those who are free from all notions are called buddhas."

Regarding merit the sutra repeatedly says how infinite and incalculable it is to read, recite, memorise and teach that sutra, even greater than the sum of Sakyamuni's merit gained by revering billions of buddhas.

Another thing we should remember is that while the teachings say that only a few people can really comprehend all this, out of 6.8 billion people even a million arhats and bodhisattvas would be very few. At the moment this forum has 316 registered members (including bots). As you're in Japan, you can see how many actually take Buddhism seriously. Not so much, right? And even among them not everyone studies (reads, recites, remembers) the Diamond Sutra (which is so popular). So I think it is a privileged situation that we have heard about the Dharma and can actually study it. This itself is a proof of having accumulated good merit in past lives. Then we can try how far we can get in realising the Dharma-realm.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 5th, 2010 at 2:13 AM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

You seem to suggest that the majority of existing Mahayana traditions are quite wrong. Pure Land, Chan, Mantra, Nichiren, Tiantai and Huayan all confirm the sudden path, enlightenment in one life, and that's what they aim for in different ways.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, May 5th, 2010 at 2:07 AM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

If actually Shin teaches the same realisation as Zen it is contradictory to say that Shin is easy but Zen is hard. Either Shin is as hard as Zen, in that case the choice between paths is meaningless, or Zen is as easy as Shin, then again a choice based on capacity is meaningless.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 4th, 2010 at 11:14 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

I used the word faith in a common, and not Zen specific sense. Probably you've heard about the Zen poem by Sengcan (3rd Chinese Patriarch) called Faith Mind Inscription (信心銘), in Japanese Shinjinmei. The word "shinjin" is same as in Shin Buddhism. But it has a very different meaning.

Its closing stanza says: 信心不二 不二信心 - Faith mind/shinjin is not two/non-duality; Not two/non-duality is faith mind/shinjin

If it was the same in Shin Buddhism it could be rightly called Zen. But that is hardly so. And if Shin followers abandoned self-view they could do very well on the Path of Sages and wouldn't need help from Amida.

Your quote from Jinul is good: "One does not have faith in any contrived causes or effects; it is only necessary to have faith that the intrinsic self is originally Buddha." The teaching that Amida saves beings is a contrived cause and effect, saying that "I am a deluded person" is against faith in buddha-mind.

I don't really see the point of making the Pure Land path harder than it is. Personally I find its simple and easy quality its advantage. I know less about Shin Buddhism than Chinese but if it is actually a more difficult path than other Pure Land methods it looks strange to me then.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 4th, 2010 at 8:20 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

Reaching the non-retrogression is the same as birth in Pure Land there. Of course, the Pure Land path is about being determined to be born in Amita's land, without that it is not possible. Such determination is one's heartfelt wish to be free from samsara and liberate all beings, for which the Land of Bliss is the stepping stone. However, I doubt there's any requirement to realise the falsness of the self-view. The ordinary Shin Buddhists you had the quote about seems to refer to people who go to the temple only because of tradition/habit and not because they actually believe, that's why there is no assurance. It is true that faith may not come easily, but it is not harder than trusting the Triple Jewel, which is the very basic for any Buddhist.

In Theravada it is as you said, dropping the notion of self-view, belief in rituals and doubt in the Dhamma. In Pure Land there is no need to be free from the view of self to have faith in Amita Buddha's vows. And in Chan it is not enough to believe in the buddha-nature, one must realise it personally.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, May 4th, 2010 at 8:01 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Nagarjuna begins his Twelve Great Treatise with some explanation on what and why he will discuss. There it is said (tr. by Hsueh-li Cheng), "One of the profoundest teachings of Mahayana is called emptiness. If one can understand this doctrine, he can understand Mahayana and possess the six paramitas without hindrance. Therefore, I want only to explain emptiness." That's how it encompasses all there is to it. But this is the reason why the buddha-nature teaching goes better with sudden enlightenment (qv. Daosheng) - you have all the buddha qualities ready to be manifested.

What level of enlightenment means insight into nature is indefinite. I mean, there are different people saying different things, no unity as there is no such thing as "Patriarch of Chan" to tell everyone what to think. If we go by the ancient masters of the Hongzhou school it is indeed buddhahood, anuttarasamyaksambodhi. But if we ask those from the Heze school after Zongmi they say it is only the 1st level of faith in the 52 level system. Shengyan says it is 1st bhumi, Xuanhua says it is 8th bhumi, Xuyun says it is buddhahood. But if we could as people like Huangbo or Linji the answer could be like: gradual stages are not Chan, buddhahood is just a word to bind people.

I believe there are dozens of good teachers in Japan, Korea, China and Vietnam too, it is simply a matter of statistics. For instance, I am a huge fan of Daehaeng Kunsunim, she is like Bodhidharma reborn.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 3rd, 2010 at 11:58 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Certainly, this Saha land has many difficulties. But then I'd say Ksitigarbha's practice gains even more merit for any bodhisattva. Also, since the practice of prajnaparamita, seeing of buddha-nature is an attainment encompassing and above all, as one can receive the teaching from a buddha directly, there's hardly any better way.

My primary aspiration is to attain buddhahood. The path I feel the closest to me is Chan. At the same time, Pure Land is an option I'd rather not miss. It's like an insurence, similarly as the name of Amita Buddha is being recited even at the deathbed of Chan masters. Or as Yongming said: Chan with Pure Land together is like a tiger with horns.

But let's look at it how could Chan be the optimal path. Realising the nature of mind is the starting point of Chan. Those who haven't seen it yet can only aspire for entering the gate but they know nothing of what is inside. Thing is, among the many aspirants only a few can pass the barrier. Then those who actually do may or may not perfect it in a single lifetime and become buddhas.

There are many Chan (Zen/Seon) teachers in the west now. A couple of them have been involved in scandals and many lack proper education in Buddhism. While we can see literally hundreds of Dharma-heirs but there might be only a handful of some worth. This is just to show how many are those still outside the gates but claiming they can enlighten students. I think I feel somewhat similar to Ouyi who perceived that there are many false Chan teachers, so people should rather practise buddha-remembrance.

Right now in the west Madhyamaka could be another option. It has enough texts translated to English to have a good basis for study. (Yogacara, Tiantai and Huayan are far from that level.) Madhyamaka is a great choice because textual study and reasoning can help making a clear difference between true and false. Just like Pure Land practice, Madhyamaka theory is a good appandage for Chan. Also, and this I haven't yet heard about, one could actually take up Madhyamaka as a complete path.

Back to the question of Chan, I think faith is as important in Chan as in Pure Land. But here one has to have faith in buddha-nature, to believe that the very nature of mind is buddha and there's no buddha to realise outside of that. Just this sound is the speech of buddha, this smell is the fragrance of buddha, this thought is the mind of buddha. In short, the six senses are the functioning of buddha-mind. While this is something that can be immediately experienced, one cannot even believe it. That's how Pure Land is easier than Chan, and only a few pass the patriarchs' gate but all goes to Amita's land.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 3rd, 2010 at 8:29 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
That's why I put an "arya" in brackets. So bodhisattvas from the first bhumi on who had insight into emptiness, who can follow what the Diamond Sutra says. If one is even below that it's hard to focus on the path and not be distracted by the pleasures of samsara. Therefore, those without enlightenment are even more advised to aspire for birth in the Pure Land. Such an aspiration is not at all contrary to bodhicitta.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 3rd, 2010 at 8:02 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

I like to bring up the Pure Land teaching especially as it raises lot of questions in people's minds, unlike Chan. So here's my reply.

Pure Land as an unreliable teaching doesn't play if one accepts Mahayana as a valid path. It is present in many different sutras and traditions in the Far Eastern as well as Tibetan Buddhism. Experiential confirmation of its existence in this life is possible through meditation (like in the Pratyutpanna Samadhi Sutra), what is generally called the buddha-remembrance samadhi.

How long it takes to attain enlightenment in the Pure Land depends on one's karma (see the 9+1 grades). It can be less than a day or many aeons. When one is already there travelling to myriad buddha-lands is possible, nobody is confined to only that place.

By the way, (arya) bodhisattva's compassion doesn't depend on a specific object, thus it is universal compassion. How could then it be influenced by circumstances?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 3rd, 2010 at 5:52 PM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think that comparing the many lineages of Mahayana, the (Chinese) Pure Land path could be the one to fit the diverse requirements in most of the categories one can think of.

Generally, it has an easy practice (buddha-remembrance) that even busy laypeople can do. It assures birth and enlightenment only on the basis of faith and not understanding (wisdom) or morality (merit). It is a fast (horizontal) escape from samsara.

At the same time the Pure Land path is good for any kind of practitioner, for while its minimum requirements are low, the scope of the teaching is deep and wide. Both theory (Madhyamaka, Yogacara, Huayan, Tiantai) and practice (paramitas, Chan, Mantra) can be used of any school of Mahayana. Buddha-remembrance can be seen as encompassing all the practices in a single one.

Compared to the long and arduous practice for many aeons in the six realms, in Amita's Pure Land conditions are perfect for swift progress to buddhahood. Compared to Chan's sudden enlightenment, this requires no great wisdom to realise immediately nor long retreats. Compared to Secret Mantra it requires no initiation, no complicated rituals, and cannot result in hellish birth.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 3rd, 2010 at 4:23 PM
Title: Re: Difference between Dzogchen and Mahamudra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Semde stresses mind/awareness and Longde stresses emptiness. Dzogchen is the pinnacle in Nyingma and Bön, but not in Kagyu, Sakya and Gelug. Also Mahamudra has different sets of teachings and interpretations, so there's more to keep in mind when comparing them.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 3rd, 2010 at 4:04 AM
Title: Re: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
As I see most of you have resorted to the idea that it all depends on one's karma. That I can agree with. On the other hand, when it comes down to defining a tradition in Mahayana somewhere on the road there is a statement how that particular method is the best among all the others.

Theravada has no problem here as it simply disregards everything else as correct Buddhism, their superiority lies only in a separation of Buddhadhamma from other religions. But Mahayana has from the beginning that it is better than the so called Hinayana, bodhisattvas are beyond arhats. Then it comes to how this Madhyamaka is better than that Madhyamaka, how Zen is better than the others, how Vajrayana is better than the others, etc. One could say it is like in Panshan's "Meat Case",

"Panshan one day at the marketplace saw a man buying meat who said, "Chop me half a kilo of your best." The butcher dropped his knife and said, "Sir, these are all the best." Panshan, hearing it, suddenly had great awakening."
(X87n1614_p0058b04-06)

One can choose only the best way, for they all claim to be that. But if we agree to that, how can we match different traditions? Or we shouldn't?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, May 3rd, 2010 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?
Content:
Astus wrote:
White Lotus,

You talk a lot about enlightenment and how that is the same as not being enlightened, saying that everyone is enlightened, while at the same time they're deluded by their egos. Actually, what does all this have to do with Buddhism? Or at least, how does that philosophy make anyone a happier person?

In your evasive manner you not just don't state or deny anything exactly but it appears to be irrelevant to the whole issue raised about Zen tenets.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 30th, 2010 at 7:05 PM
Title: Re: Science and Siddhis
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it is among science's silent rules that it is against all supernatural, and whatever seems supernatural brings it down to natural. Paranormal science is like Christian science - doesn't really make sense.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 30th, 2010 at 5:26 PM
Title: Safe Escape - User Friendly Dharma
Content:
Astus wrote:
There has been a nice debate about Shinran and Precepts. Here I'd like to raise the stakes and start a peaceful competition and a silent revolution.

The goal is to show which Buddhist path is the easiest, the fastest and the safest to achieve liberation from samsara, and since this is a Mahayana realm, attainment of buddhahood is worth extra points. Also a reverse is possible where a path is proven to be extremely hard.

Don't take this too seriously, or too lightly. The point is to see what paths there are and which one should one choose.

Here are the categories:

Easy - requires little effort (precepts, meditation, study), people with low capacities can practice it, can be practised with little or no help (teacher, community)

Fast - within three aeons, within one aeon, within 16 lives, within 7 lives, within this life, within 30 years, within 3 years, within 7 months, within a week, within a day

Safe - no birth in the lower realms, birth only in good circumstances, birth only in pure lands, birth at will, no more birth

Example:

Stream-entry in Theravada (based on Piya Tan's explanation) - requires correct view regarding Dhamma (dropping false concepts as in the first three fetters), maintaining the five precepts, guaranteed liberation within 7 lives, no more birth in the lower realms


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 30th, 2010 at 3:49 PM
Title: Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?
Content:
Astus wrote:
m0rl0ck,

In Buddhist terms, before enlightenment there are pancopadanaskandha (five aggregates with attachment), after enlightenment pancaskandha (five aggregates). Difference is in the attachment (upadana).


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 30th, 2010 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

One of the good things in Buddhism that we all share some common basis. Here we share a lot if we say that we accept all Mahayana sutras as valid, accept the teachings of Nagarjuna, Aryadeva, Asanga, Vasubandhu, etc. And based on that each of us can describe one's position and the arguments for it.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 29th, 2010 at 9:33 PM
Title: Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I simply raised to (hopefully provocative) questions. Different perspectives and ideas are very welcome.

m0rl0ck said:
I guess one has to do something while waiting for the lightning to strike tho

Astus wrote:
Maybe it wasn't intentional on your side, but there is actually a view saying that regardless of one's practice enlightenment will come suddenly (and that's what they call sudden enlightenment). It is a wrong idea that denies the meaning of practice. There are people who think that one should just sit and wait for realisation to happen. That way nothing will happen. So there are also people who believe that if nothing happens that's zazen, that's enlightenment. What is that good for?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 29th, 2010 at 8:32 PM
Title: Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?
Content:
Astus wrote:
If sudden enlightenment were purely rhetorical in Chan the whole thing could as well be put aside as a badly set up system and we should get involved in something real. I mean, the whole idea of Chan is about sudden enlightenment, without that it has no raison d'être.

Other methods used are actually usual Mahayana techniques, means of the gradual path. Only exception is the huatou-gongan technique which is an internal development of the Chan tradition, again, based on the sudden enlightenment concept.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 29th, 2010 at 7:29 PM
Title: Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?
Content:
Astus wrote:
m0rl0ck,

Indeed, there have always been Chan students working with different meditation practices before gaining insight. Huatou is a method devised to expedite seeing nature. As tradition says, it was invented by teachers because the capacity of students became worse than those of the ancients. I don't think this is the case, but that's a historical issue.

However, it tells a lot about Chan if there is hardly anyone who can do it. Talking about sudden enlightenment and 30 years of mountain retreat at the same time is a bit contradictory. One could as well use other methods, like samatha-vipasyana of Tiantai, or Huayan instructions, since they're more step by step and applicable to different circumstances. Seeing nature is supposed to be the pure Chan path which is not even a path but enlightenment. Or that is just rhetoric.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 29th, 2010 at 6:48 PM
Title: Re: How do we know?
Content:
Astus wrote:
m0rl0ck,

Without concepts there is nothing conditioned and nothing to condition, so it is called the unconditioned, which is emptiness. An empty mind is no-mind (wunian/munen).


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 29th, 2010 at 5:51 PM
Title: Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Realising tathata, suchness, is seeing how things actually are (yatha bhuta). This is equivalent to say one has realised emptiness. Emptiness is never separate from form, thinking they're different is not really an enlightenment on emptiness. But of course, there are different meanings of emptiness, that's why Huseng said he used tathata.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 29th, 2010 at 5:06 PM
Title: Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?
Content:
Astus wrote:
m0rl0ck,

What you describe as hindrances are what defilements are. And if that obstructs one from seeing nature, isn't it that different methods should be applied? Huangbo also says that while there are a few who can go the sudden way, many has to walk the gradual path.

"Some students attain the state of liberated Mind quickly, some slowly.  After listening to a Dharma talk, some reach "no mind" directly.  In contrast, some must first pass gradually through the ten grades of Bodhisattva faith, the Dasabhumi of Bodhisattva development, and the ten stages before attaining the Perfectly Awakened Mind."

"Out of thousands and thousands of Dharma students in the Dhyana School, only three or five attain the fruit."

It follows that if one is not enlightened immediately, they must apply the usual Mahayana path of sila, samadhi and prajna.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 29th, 2010 at 4:56 PM
Title: Re: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Interestingly enough, these Song dynasty Chan manuals were meant for the laity (too). Monks had their elder teachers around and the whole tradition, so they didn't really need instructions in written form about how to sit and what to do, unlike lay people who didn't sit with the monks. Plus there were tomes with a lot more detailed and complicated instruction (eg. Mohezhiguan). This simplified, basic Chan was meant for everyone, just like Dahui taught Kanhua Chan mainly to his lay followers.

Defilements are certainly behind all our problems. It means we're attached to feelings and concepts taking them as real and solid. That's why in Chan it is told to turn the attention on mind itself, thus realising the true nature. That is called the direct cut instead of eliminating klesa step by step. On the other hand, the sudden path is not for everyone. For instance, the Perfect Enlightenment Sutra advises repentance practice and long retreats.

As m0rl0ck mentioned, there may not be a difference between realising buddha-mind and buddhahood. But as I see, many Chan teachers differentiate between initial insight and complete liberation, even some from the early Hongzhou school. On the other hand, after Shenhui there were no such stages as you describe it. Such steps belong to the gradual and not the sudden path. In Tathagata Chan - the Supreme Vehicle -  one goes directly for tathata.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 29th, 2010 at 6:13 AM
Title: See Nature, Become Buddha - Can You?
Content:
Astus wrote:
After the couple of threads where I've participated which mainly were about Pure Land I'd like to come up this time with a Zen discussion.

To me Zen is simply the direct way of realising the essence of Buddhism, the nature of mind, ie. buddha-mind. Everything else are empty fists and golden leaves.

For a start let me give here short quotes from two Song dynasty meditation instructions.

"Once you have settled your posture and regulated your breathing, you should relax your abdomen. Do not think of any good or evil whatsoever. Whenever a thought occurs, be aware of it; as soon as you aware of it, it will vanish. If you remain for a long period forgetful of objects, you will naturally become unified. This is the essential art of tso-ch'an. Honestly speaking, tso-ch'an is the dharma gate of ease and joy." (Changlu Zongze, tr. by C. Bielefeldt)

"In quiet concentration, examine clearly with true mindfulness. What is congnizant of sitting is mind, and what introspects is mind. What knows being and nonbeing, center and extremes, inside and outside, is mind. This mind is empty yet perceptive, silent yet aware. Round and bright, perfectly clear, it does not fall into ideas of annihilation or eternity. Spiritual awareness radiantly bright, its discrimination is not false." (Foxin Bencai, tr. by T. Cleary)

Simple and straightforward. This is all there is to seeing nature. By attaining it buddhahood is at hand. So here are two questions to discuss:

1. What hinders one from realising the nature of mind?
2. What stops one who has seen the nature from completing buddhahood?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 29th, 2010 at 5:30 AM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirtu,

Honen didn't say one attains enlightenment immediately after birth but there one can engage in the bodhisattva path on full scale. So that agrees with what other traditions say. Also, if you look at these words of Jixing Chenwu (considered the 12th patriarch of Chinese Pure Land) they resemble the way Shinran speaks:

"The very moment of contemplating the buddha (nianfo) is the very moment of seeing the buddha and becoming the buddha. The very moment of seeking rebirth is the very moment of attaining rebirth and the very moment of liberating all beings (du sheng, 渡生). The three margins of time are all a single, identical time; there is no before and after."

However, this is actually a summary of the progress in Pure Land practice, just as the article explains, "Chewu takes this progression so much for granted that he uses it without further elaboration to illustrate another point, knowing that his audience will accept it unquestioningly." ( http://www.buddhistethics.org/10/jones021.html#a31 )

But of course it is up to Shin masters to explain their view of the issue.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 29th, 2010 at 3:41 AM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Andreas Ludwig said:
It has no cause or else it wouldn't be the state of freedom, the realization of it happens naturally. Since the liberation from suffering is a shift in perspective and no specific step on a ladder of magical education and practice there's nothing to do to make it happen. The goal is to be free from causes and conditions so you can not reach that state by creating a certain framework with the idea to 'produce' it.

Astus wrote:
This is naturalism, a denial of causality and the validity of the path to enlightenment. Saying that there are no cause nor conducive conditions for enlightenment necessitates that then people attain liberation randomly. Morality, meditation and wisdom are the three necessary components of the fourth noble truth. That's how the issue of keeping the precepts is important. To say that there is a way where upholding the precepts is unnecessary needs good reasons, for it is the basis of the entire Buddhist path. By claiming that in this life no need for the threefold training (sila, samadhi, prajna) and at the time of death there is enlightenment, well, this is contradictory to the whole thing.

Andreas Ludwig said:
Well, it seems you are still closer to Honen than to Shinran, but Dodatsu already gave Shinrans quote regarding this idea.

Astus wrote:
Can be. I can only understand Shinran based on Honen and the whole Chinese Pure Land teachings as a logical result of that lineage and other factors, mainly from Tendai.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 29th, 2010 at 2:30 AM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirtu,

Yes, bodhisattvas who are in connection with Amita Buddha. Those who have a connection with him could as well be born in his land. Not to mention that arya bodhisattvas can travel between buddha-lands.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 28th, 2010 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Yes, generally lot of merits are necessary. However, even the sutra says, that Pure Land is available for those who committed the five heinous crimes and ten wrong deeds. This is neither Honen's nor Shinran's invention who both relied on the scriptures and Chinese masters. It is just that they took it to its logical end.

See what the great Ming master Ouyi says (Mind Seal of the Buddhas): "Whether we achieve rebirth in the Pure Land depends entirely on whether or not we have faith and vows. How high we rank in the Pure Land depends entirely on how deeply we recite the Buddha-name."

It is said the Pure Land path is good for those with high, with middle and with low capacity. Honen and Shinran said they're incapable of anything else but relying solely on Amita Buddha's power. That interpretation is still within the boundaries of traditional understanding of the Pure Land scriptures. Thus there is the possiblity of attaining birth without being good at precepts. Nevertheless, no Pure Land teacher ever said people should do bad things.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 28th, 2010 at 11:05 PM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
There is an interesting essay relevant to this thread: http://www.buddhistethics.org/10/jones021.html.

Honen and many of his disciples (including Shinran) put themselves into the category of "lowest of the low" where one may actually commit serious offenses but still be saved. Still we should note that neither of them became a serial killer or anything close that.

As for Ven. Shengyan's arguments, attaining buddhahood through birth in the Pure Land may take longer for those born in the lower levels but not for those in the upper leveles. At the same time, failing on the bodhisattva path and losing human birth can easily result in aeons of wandering around (see the parable of the blind turtle in the ocean). In that case it would be essential to reach non-regression in this life, hence buddhahood is not far away at all. Or there's the sudden enlightenment of Chan as another option.

I'd also like to refer to the original issue behind starting this topic. It is to show how Shinran had good reasons to say that precepts for him (and many others) are too high, but fortunately the Pure Land path gives him a chance to attain buddhahood in that condition too. Others with better karma still may be able to realise enlightenment on their own. And those others should uphold moral discipline. If they can.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 28th, 2010 at 9:00 PM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

It is of course not enough to just say it. Anyone can say it without even knowing a thing of its meaning. Faith is the essential part here which makes buddha-remembrance a living connection. Through that connection there is birth in the Land of Bliss. "Namo Amita Buddha" is just summing it up, expressing the whole teaching. Similar (but not the same) to the Mani-mantra in Tibetan Buddhism which is explained in so many ways that it includes the whole Vajrayana. Or to say that the six paramitas or the four noble truths contains the entire teaching of the Buddha. The nianfo/nenbutsu is buddha-awareness (not buddha-mind, except if we go into a Zen explanation), and as the Surangama Sutra explains, just as remembering our father - who never forgets us - it is possible to meet, that's how by remembering Amita Buddha we can meet him at the time of death and be escorted to the Pure Land.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 28th, 2010 at 8:24 PM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

The idea of "Pure Land on Earth" is indeed a good one. But it has little to do with the Pure Land school itself. If you accept Tiantai Zhiyi and Yongming Yanshou as valid teachers, you should have no problem with birth in the Pure Land. Which of course doesn't mean you have to choose that way.

Lazy_eye,

It seems to me you take it too much to the extreme. Of course buddhas and bodhisattvas work tirelessly for the wellfare of all beings. But they cannot make anyone enlightened. Even if one goes to a buddha-land (any of them), they have to attain realisation on their own. The difference is the environment. Thus the Pure Land is said to be like a monastery, an ideal place for the perfection of paramitas. Shinran may simplify all this to saying that attaining birth is equal to enlightenment, but I doubt he wanted to contradict the tenet of the four noble truths, especially the fourth.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 28th, 2010 at 5:17 PM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm not as proficient in Shin teaching as Dodatsu, but based on Chinese Pure Land teachings I may have some answers.

I understand Huseng's question and actually agree with his doubts. Claiming there is any compassionate and omnipotent being leads to the problem of theodicy, and such an argument was used by Buddhist masters several times to refute those who thought there is such a divine being.

Why I don't think it applies to the Pure Land teaching is because Amita Buddha is not the cause of being brought to his land but the condition. That is, as a result of his bodhisattva work through many aeons he created a buddha-land without any suffering on it (Sukhavati, Land of Bliss), and had 48 vows to specify how and upon what conditions can beings reach his land. So it is like he made a contract which has to be fulfiled by beings to receive admission. Those are the house rules. Such is perfectly within common Mahayana teaching on buddha-lands and dependent origination.

Minimal requirement from an applicant to the Western Pure Land is faith, vow and practice. Of this three, faith and vow constitutes the essential determinant of birth while practice is on one hand for cultivating faith and vow, on the other defines what level of birth one can get. Faith and vow stands for: there is a way, I want to go that way. Practice is remembering, recalling the existence of the way and the determination.

This three (faith, vow, practice), which can be summed up as nianfo/nenbutsu, builds a connection with Amita Buddha. Such a connection is necessary for receiving merit from him. This is in accord with the teaching on transference of merit as accepted by all schools; ie. by knowing of the dedicated merit and being happy about it one receives that merit. This works in case of humans, bodhisattvas and buddhas alike.

This way we can establish the requirements for the possibility of the general Pure Land idea within the framework of Mahayana. Now we can look at how it can be possible to attain birth only by faith through other-power.

Those who don't hear about the Pure Land path has no chance to aspire for it. Therefore knowledge comes first. Based on knowledge faith has to appear. Such faith is only possible because there is Amita Buddha's vow to escort beings to his land and there they're assured of enlightenment. So we can say that faith is from him. Such faith must be deep trust where insight into one's own situation, into the way of Pure Land and the determination. This is the three minds (sanjin) within deep trust (shinjin). Also, deep trust means that one keeps not forgetting of Amita Buddha, which has the verbal expression in Namo Amita Buddha. Hence shinjin also includes nenbutsu, and nenbutsu includes shinjin.

This is how faith is the sufficient cause for birth in the Pure Land. Once there is faith birth is assured, in that sense it is equal to non-regression. Since on the Pure Land liberation is guaranteed, birth is enlightenment (similar to bodhicitta being samyaksambodhi in the Avatamsaka Sutra).


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 28th, 2010 at 1:24 AM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
Kirtu,

If enlightenment seems unreachable then the Pure Land path is the optimal choice. That way one can get free from samsara and fulfil the bodhisattva path easily. Otherwise, even if one collected an immense heap of merit throughout a single life, there's no guarantee one won't be born in the lowest hells and stay there for many aeons.

Lazy_eye,

I think that if you can accept the Buddha as the true teacher, the Mahayana as his true teaching and the respected teachers of the Pure Land tradition as valid transmitters of the correct interpretation, it is easy to embrace the Pure Land path. I believe the cardinal point is to trust in the Mahayana sutras, for then on one can study even alone what the Buddha taught about the Land of Peace and Bliss and how to get there.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 28th, 2010 at 12:01 AM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

I'm sure I don't have months to spend in retreats. I could do that only if I had either the money for it or if I were a monk/yogi somewhere else. My experience with people's capacity for Buddhism is not so good. It is rare to find anyone in a community with an aptitude for deeper levels beyond general instructions for meditation and vague ideas about Dharma. I've taught at a university ( http://tkbf.hu/ENGLISH/index.html ) for three years introductory classes on Zen, Huayan, Pure Land, Buddha-nature teachings and on certain Mahayana sutras, also occasionally gave lectures on Madhyamaka as a guest teacher. The audience was of course made of university students who were there in order to study Buddhism. Still, only one or two could really understand what it was about while a majority never got it. However, there was one exception. People who came to my Pure Land lectures could understand it by the end of the semester, most of them even gained faith (to a certain degree).

I don't know if you're familiar with Ven. Yinguang's teachings (contemporary of Xuyun), considered to be the greatest Pure Land master in China in the last century. His letters explain lucidly the reason for buddha-remembrance practice as the fastest and most secure way to buddhahood for everyone. And unlike Chan - which is (originally) the path of sudden enlightenment - Pure Land can provide everyone with an assurance.

This assurance makes actually Shinran capable to make dropping moral precepts not to be against attainment of buddhahood. (Note: this is not true for all Pure Land schools.) In Chan it is also possible to a certain extent not to be bothered by morality, meditation and wisdom - simply because it is buddhahood right now. In theory at least. But in practice that is rarely the case.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 27th, 2010 at 5:20 PM
Title: Re: How do we know?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Awareness is not ever present. Consciousness depends on what it is conscious of. So the Buddha categorised consciousness into six major forms. And the sixth can be examined according to the four aggregates of the name group. But if you look up what the manifold dharmas are in the Abhidharma texts you find that awareness is very far from being always there, more like momentary. And there are even beings in a heavenly realm without consciousness. See http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.061.than.html discussing why it is a great mistake to identify oneself with the mind as if it were permanent while on the contrary it changes rapidly. Therefore it is empty.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 27th, 2010 at 5:00 PM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

While I'm not much of a Dharma Decline proponent I find it a traditional and common view throughout Mahayana lands. I've also heard that those who actually have real attainments are bodhisattvas appearing in this world but no common human really attains anything. This I don't necessarily agree with. You know, I'm more of a Chan-style buddha-nature believer, which guarantees the availability of enlightenment for everyone at any time, and, certain conditions provided, it can be actualised. Still, reliable teachers are few and phony (wild fox) people are many. And while Ven. Shengyan didn't claim to be greatly enlightened, people like Living Buddha Lu Shengyan seems to say so.

If sensual desires has to be left behind temporarily or partially, even married lay people can attain absorption on a retreat or on a peaceful morning.

Dodatsu,

Thanks for dropping in.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 27th, 2010 at 5:32 AM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't think it is only Pure Land people saying we're in the Age of Decline but even Tibetans (although they use this to say that Vajrayana is the solution to the problem). As for "apparently enlightened beings" I cannot say much. How is it apparent? Regarding the first jhana, if it requires abandonment of sensual craving, only a non-returner can do it, excluding even bodhisattvas. How could then such people as non-Buddhists attain it?

Nevertheless, I didn't say the truth is only with Shinran but wanted to state clearly that while Shinran had good reasons to live a layman's life, other traditions don't. I should also mention that his teacher, Honen remained a monk till the end of his life, and that was the case with every great Pure Land teacher in China too I know of. Fortunately, the Pure Land method works as well for monks as for laymen.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 26th, 2010 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
A lay priest is an ambiguous term for me. It can mean one who does the rituals, pastoral duties and teaching (like a Christian priest). It may also mean something less varied, like a lay teacher (could also be a scholar, a meditation teacher, or a Dharma teacher). It could also mean missionary work too, preaching to unbelievers.

Another important point is that a lay priest would either cost double, or triple than a monk. First of all, a priest would need proper education, a university degree in Dharma. Where can you obtain one like that? Not so many places, but not impossible. Also, such a priest may need a home that the laity should pay for. Another option is a part-time priest, in that case the quality of service might suffer it.

Last question I can think of is the advatages-disadvantages of a lay priest vis-a-vis a monk. A monk lives in a community, easier to maintain proper lifestyle, more time for studies and practice are available. A priest is more for the laity than for personal advancement, may not be able to carry on with his own education on a necessary level. On the other hand, a priest can be closer to the community than home leavers.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 26th, 2010 at 7:56 PM
Title: Precepts and Shinran
Content:
Astus wrote:
As I've read a couple of times, and again in a recent thread initiated by Rev. Nonin's remarks on renunciation, I'd like to bring up for investigation the case of Shinran who left priesthood and got married. Many think this is a good reference for the modern Japanese situation where ordained men can and do live like lay people. Shinran, as is well known, was a Pure Land follower, a disciple of Honen, who said that for himself (and generally for people who live in this Age of Declining Dharma) it is impossible to walk the Path of Sages (everything else than Pure Land) because he is full of defilements and only Amita Buddha can help who brings even the evil to his Land of Peace and Bliss.

This sounds like an acceptible reason for not maintaining the precepts, for they're not just no longer needed but one is actually incapable of fulfilling them. On the other hand, this argument doesn't stand for any other paths where discipline in moral acts is essential.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 23rd, 2010 at 5:20 PM
Title: Re: Buddha Nature, Emptiness and Anatman
Content:
Astus wrote:
True. However, just the fact of interconnectedness includes no buddha-qualities, otherwise all would have them.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 23rd, 2010 at 4:39 PM
Title: Re: Buddha Nature, Emptiness and Anatman
Content:
Astus wrote:
Well, if I have joy because of others' joy I should also have anger and greed because of others. Or you mean the realisation of interconnectedness is buddha-nature? Because then buddha-nature is not universal but a realisation. I hope you don't my I ask.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 23rd, 2010 at 4:24 PM
Title: Re: Buddha Nature, Emptiness and Anatman
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is called "buddha-nature" because it somehow (depending on interpretation) bears the qualities a buddha has. For an Indo-Tibetan explanation best go for the Ratnagotravibhaga with available modern commentaries on it. For the East-Asian style you should start with the Mahayana-sraddhotpada shastra (Awakening Mahayana Faith).

Buddha-nature as dependent origination is a possible interpretation, but then where are the buddha-qualities here? If there are none, why call it buddha-nature?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 23rd, 2010 at 1:27 AM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Don't misunderstand me, I have no problem with Dzogchen in any way as I am not really a follower of it. I was only talking about a situation as I see it.

Sönam, if Dzogchen teachers can act and talk from Dharmakaya, can't they not write?


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 22nd, 2010 at 10:56 PM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Well, a book is not like personal instruction for one cannot ask back. It is more like a lecture, a teaching on something, except that probably it is better composed. And if it is a teaching on Dzogchen one receives a teaching on that, including instructions for meditation. Definitely it has a less wider scope than years of training. But besides monks hardly one has time enough to hang around a teacher all the time, especially if he lives thousands of kilometres away. Therefore it is not negligible to consider materials distributed on Dzogchen - just like in case of any other Dharma teachings. For instance, in my country, there is no resident teacher one could turn to for Dzogchen practice, thus everyone depends on books, Internet and visiting teachers who come occasionally. Not to mention the fact that those few books and texts available are translations from English.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 22nd, 2010 at 4:02 PM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
So the books are OK. While it would be hard to become a disciple of all those authors, I guess they put their teachings into a written for in order to be known by many, inlcuding those who do not even live in the same country, or same continent, or speak the same language. A common thing in those books is that they present Dzogchen in a pretty accessible form and they also explain methods to practice it. Suppose I read one of them, understand it, then practise it - isn't that Dzogchen practice? If not, then what?

I'm bringing this up only to give an example how it is possible people don't necessarily associate Dzogchen with other tantric practices. And that is not because they don't want to but how Dzogchen is presented. Similar to Vipassana and Zen.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 22nd, 2010 at 3:38 PM
Title: Re: Pirated dharma texts.
Content:
Astus wrote:
As said, copying something is not theft in Buddhist definition. If copying were theft, well, we could as well neither lend nor talk about a book. Copyright is a modern legal term which of course has its use. But what is moral and what is legal may not always be the same. Legally there is no problem with cheating one's spouse, morally there is. Legally it is not an issue to say I'm a buddha/arhat/tulku/..., morally there is. Legally it is a problem to copy texts protected by copyright, or not, depends on local laws, but morally it is not theft. Also see the "Pirate Party" movement.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 22nd, 2010 at 5:24 AM
Title: Re: Free Kalavinka Shastra PDFs
Content:
Astus wrote:
Hail to Ven. Dharmamitra and FREE DHARMA!


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 22nd, 2010 at 5:22 AM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nangwa, that's all right. But it's like when some talk about Buddhism as a therapeutic way to inner peace and all people can practice it, then when they get interested it turns out it is a religion like all the others full of moral commands and supernatural realms. Sounds like advertising a menu that makes you lose weight then adding you should also go to the gym twice a day. Thus confusion and misunderstanding is not surprising.

Although it raises the question: if they're all superficial teachings (contrary to their claim to be highest Vajrayana), they intentionally mislead people, or they're mistaken from the beginning.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 22nd, 2010 at 4:09 AM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm talking about available materials on Dzogchen. As in books:

Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche: Natural Great Perfection
Lama Surya Das: Natural Radiance
James Low: Being Right Here
Tsoknyi Rinpoche: Fearless Simplicity
Tenzin Wangyal: Wonders of the Natural Mind
Michael Hookham: Openness, Clarity, Sensitivity
HHDL: Dzogchen - The Heart Essence of the Great Perfection


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 22nd, 2010 at 2:40 AM
Title: Re: Stick to "one path"?
Content:
Astus wrote:
And it is not pointless at all to critically examine Dogen's teachings as he has such an influence in Western Buddhism (luckily there are quite a few scholarly work around in English). On one hand he says that it is not really Zen, or Soto Zen he teaches but the Correct Dharma of the Buddhas and Patriarchs, while on the other hand others besides him, Nyojo, Wanshi Shogaku and a select few, everyone else is either completely wrong or below enlightenment. Zazen is the samadhi of samadhis, while nenbutsu is like the croaking of frogs. Finally, Dogen seems quite adamant on exclusive practice of the superior shikantaza. Good example of a "one path" approach.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, April 22nd, 2010 at 2:18 AM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
heart said:
Always ChNN, is that all you got? Maybe you can quote from a tantra or any Dzogchen text except his that use this categorization?

Astus wrote:
I think there was a small misunderstanding here. By separate path I simply meant as a set of teachings and practices on its own. I didn't mean it is not Vajrayana or makes other practices useless. In ChNN's Dzogchen Community they do many other practices besides tregcho and togal. The problem is that seeing the interconnectedness of Dzogchen methods with those of the other inner tantras requires a deeper familiarity with Nyingma teachings and not just those presented as Dzogchen exclusively. But in brief this is summed up in Sam van Schaik's "Approaching the Great Perfection". By talking about Dzogchen as a separate teaching I meant that it seems uncommon to me to have all the nine vehicles touched upon in a single work like in Dudjom Rinpoche's "big red book", which is clearly too much for anyone who is just looking for the meaning of Dzogchen he has heard about somewhere.

See what the Rigpa Wiki says, "Sogyal Rinpoche describes it as "the heart-essence of all spiritual paths and the summit of an individual’s spiritual evolution. As a way in which to realize the innermost nature of mind—that which we really are— Dzogchen is the clearest, most effective, and most relevant to the modern world."

What do you make of it that best selling authors on Dzogchen, including HHDL, talks about Atiyoga as an accessible, quite easy and simple method of "resting in the natural state" and there is nothing else to it? And this makes it popular. Even has its own forum.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 21st, 2010 at 11:49 PM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Magnus,

See ChNN's categorisation of Sutra (detachment), Tantra (transformation) and Dzogchen (self-liberation). Plus it is the 9th yana and not the 8th or the 7th. Not to mention that this is the impression one gets from teachings about Dzogchen and of Dzogchen as they emphasise abiding in rigpa and dropping all efforts, while at the same time don't talk about other meditation forms but only as preliminary and techniques of lower vehicles.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 21st, 2010 at 11:12 PM
Title: Re: Stick to "one path"?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng, indeed! Dogen liked to talk big.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 21st, 2010 at 10:55 PM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Magnus,

Nice to hear he's your root master. Once I used a urinal next to him after attending a lecture by him on the different yanas. I feel karmic connection here.

I think I can follow you about integrating Dzogchen view in all the usual practices and also understand the reason behind it. I also see this tendency of simplifying things to a "non-conceptual meditation" not just in Dzogchen but also in Zen and Theravada. Perhaps it is (partially) about how meditation is seen in Western cultures. And then a deity sounds quite supernatural, therefore unreal.

At the same time I think Dzogchen view may go simply with Dzogchen path. Although I agree it may not be good for everyone - just as there's no single teaching good for everyone - but there are people who can use it.

Also I feel that since Dzogchen is advertised as a separate path which deals directly with the nature of mind and does so effortlessly, mixing with tantric methods appears to be contradictory (or counter-intuitive) to the "spirit of Atiyoga".


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 21st, 2010 at 4:51 PM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Magnus,

Could you clarify - and I believe this is Sönam's point - how sadhanas and a load of practices relate to the following:

"Mahamudra and Dzogchen training means not fabricating anything, just allowing the continuity of our natural state. This is not our habit. We must train in developing a new habit, but this practice is not meditation, but familiarization. When we finally arrive at the dharmakaya throne of nonmeditation, there is nothing more to cultivate; there is not even an atom to meditate upon, and yet we are not distracted for even an instant. We need to train in this. It is also phrased as mental nondoing. ... In the guidance manuals for meditation, it is often phrased like this: Do not alter your present fresh wakefulness. Do not rearrange even as much as a hair tip. Just leave it exaclty as it is."
(Choky Nyima Rinpoche: "Familiarization" in Quintessential Dzogchen, p. 199)


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 21st, 2010 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Nangwa said:
authentic "deity yoga" (with the intent and view of Dzogchen) is not a mind-based practice.

Astus wrote:
Now I'm curious. Are you saying that there is an unintentional meditation on a deity? Or is it that "all appearances are the play of rigpa"; but in that case it'd be togal, wouldn't it? I'm starting to think it's quite impossible then to draw a line between the view of "emptiness is appearances" and "appearances are awareness". Then difference between Dzogchen and Mahayoga is eliminated.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 21st, 2010 at 3:43 AM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
It seems to me that such a division of practice would be actually a balance of generation and completion forms. In that case then what is the difference between calling it Dzogchen or Maha- and Anuyoga, ie. deity yoga? Perhaps it'd be possible to make a distinction - similar to Kagyu Mahamudra - between tantric and essential Dzogchen.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 21st, 2010 at 1:36 AM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Magnus,

That I am OK with. Do you think it is also possible to take resting itself as the practice without other methods?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 20th, 2010 at 11:19 PM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Am I mistaken in saying that realising rigpa is seeing the buddha-nature? If I'm correct, I can only wonder what else is there to attain beyond buddhahood.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 20th, 2010 at 7:31 PM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't think one should stick to one extreme or the other. It is common that most of the people don't get much of initiations and pointing out instructions, otherwise we'd all be vajramasters already. Thus practice is necessary, and not just one form of it but many. It shouldn't be forgot either that introduction to the nature of mind happens at the 4 HYT initiations too. Dzogchen in its raw and simple form - as in the three statements of Prahevajra - is for those with the highest capacity. Others can use whatever else Buddhism offers to them as a means to enlightenment. Naturally the majority doesn't belong to the best of the best. Even Milarepa couldn't realise Dzogchen at first.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 20th, 2010 at 6:44 PM
Title: Re: Stick to "one path"?
Content:
Astus wrote:
If you look at the quoted speech of Ven. Shengyan he mentions mainly Tibetan Buddhism and not Shingon. I think that's because there are more Tibetan groups than Mizong. Also I guess original Chinese mantrayana is viewed in a different way and not necessarily identified with Shingon.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 19th, 2010 at 10:52 PM
Title: Re: Stick to "one path"?
Content:
Astus wrote:
That's the only one I've ever read from him regarding Mantrayana. It seems to me he wasn't much involved in Tibetan teachings.

Regarding the bodhisattva path I'm not sure how it could have been faster in his interpretation than the Pure Land way, especially because he didn't teach sudden enlightenment in the sense that it is attainment of buddhahood but rather the first step on the bodhisattva path (similar to the Zongmi-Yongming view).


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 19th, 2010 at 10:18 PM
Title: Re: Stick to "one path"?
Content:
Astus wrote:
http://www.chan1.org/ddp/channews/05-1985.html


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 19th, 2010 at 8:55 PM
Title: Re: Stick to "one path"?
Content:
Astus wrote:
A sectarian mindset may not be useful in Buddhism. Just see how many Chinese groups say they accept all 8 schools and at the same time they all do similar things and study similar texts. They call Tendai syncretic, but actually even Theravada teaches so many things.

Taking a specific doctrinal position is used in a debate against someone you don't agree with. Think about these terms: sudden-gradual; easy-difficult; final-temporary; direct-indirect; secret-open; great-small; practical-theoretical; etc.

Instead of identifying with this or that one can always say to go on the bodhisattva path. Or just try to find out to which school people like Yunqi Zhuhong, or Ven. Yinshun belonged to.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 19th, 2010 at 7:41 PM
Title: Re: Stick to "one path"?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thing is, I can very much sympathise with Huseng's question. Simply because I like to put my nose into many Buddhist teachings and I really like a couple of them (at least six lineages). My kind of solution is not a Honen style "select the best" but a Chan-Huayan version of ekayana.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 19th, 2010 at 4:55 PM
Title: Re: Stick to "one path"?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it would be hard to tell what constitutes a single path. I mean, every tradition bases itself on the canon which contains almost everything. Thus one path means just a way of organising the teachings according to a tradition. Thing is, even if one is familiar with more than one hermeneutic system, if one claims to favour none of them it is a rather extra-traditional position of a philosopher, or more likely a personal interpretation. Eventually this is certainly not a black or white thing. Everyone learns about different Buddhist teachings on different levels plus has his own rendering of them all.

Meditation handbooks belong to this or that tradition but contain a variety of methods. So "one path" is not "one book, one technique". From this also comes it is not "many paths" either. There are infinite teachings and if we take that literally it'd take infinite time to master. But even gaining proficiency in a single tradition takes considerable effort, not to mention two or three.

Nagarjuna says in the Twelve Gate Treatise that he teaches Mahayana briefly in that text, because if one comprehends and realises emptiness the six paramitas and all the teachings will be mastered that way. Similar arguments we find in Zen too (see your nature and become a buddha). Fazang's treatise on different gates is a good example of many ways accessing the same truth, and that the one truth contains all the other paths.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 16th, 2010 at 9:31 PM
Title: Re: Buddhism for the lay person?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Regarding lay practice it's also good to note that Vajrayana in India and Tibet was and is still strong on lay people, especially as there are certain meditation techniques not allowed for ordained monastics.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 16th, 2010 at 3:46 PM
Title: Re: Posture - Really Good Posture
Content:
Astus wrote:
Carl Bielefeldt's "Dogen's Manual of Zen Meditation" is a very good work on the Chinese origins of Soto meditation manuals like the Fukanzazengi.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 14th, 2010 at 4:24 PM
Title: Re: Nirguna Brahman and Nirvana
Content:
Astus wrote:
Nirguna Brahman - creator god without attributes (a contradictory statement in itself, for it is absurd to say there is a thing but has no qualities).
Nirvana - the end of suffering, elimination of greed, hatred and ignorance. It is neither a being nor a place but an experience.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 14th, 2010 at 3:52 PM
Title: Re: No Proofs of Sucessful Rebirths?&Are Pure Land sutras real?
Content:
Astus wrote:
One better not look for scientific truths for religious teachings. Not because they're contradictory or against each other but they work with different axioms and talk about different spheres of the world.

To understand, and consequently gain faith in the Pure Land teaching one better starts with basic teachings (summed up in: four noble truths, dependent origination) then move to Mahayana. Actually, I think if one gets clear on realms, buddhas, merit transference and rebirth from the basics it doesn't take much to comprehend the bodhisattva path and the buddha-lands of Mahayana. From this it is not difficult to see how and why can one be born in the Pure Land of Amita Buddha.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 13th, 2010 at 9:07 PM
Title: Re: Seeing Your Nature
Content:
Astus wrote:
In Jiang Wu's "Enlightenment in Dispute" there are some nice stories about Confucian literati playing the Chan master. It is really amusing. Nevertheless, it shows how much Chan is about style rather than content (in appearance). A couple of years back I could still meet people from the Kwan Um School of Zen who actually talked (wrote on forum) like Seung Sahn, although they were native English people. The question is: What would be left of Chan without "Linji's shout (often mistranslated as KATSU/KATZ) and Deshan's stick"?


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 13th, 2010 at 1:47 AM
Title: Re: Tantra and the Buddha
Content:
Astus wrote:
Just as Mahayana sutras in general, we can say tantras being the words of the Buddha except when stated otherwise (just like there are sutras taught by Shakyamuni's immediate disciples, bodhisattvas and other buddhas).

Early tantric scriptures (called sutras in Chinese) begin with the usual form:

Sūtra of the Buddha-Crown Superb Victory Dhāraṇī:

"Thus I have heard: At one time the Bhagavān was staying in the Anāthapiṇḍika Garden of Jetavana Park in the city kingdom of Śrāvastī, together with a group of 8,000 great bhikṣus."

Buddha Pronounces the Mahāyāna Sūtra of the Holy Infinite-Life Resolute Radiance King Tathāgata Dhāraṇī:

"Thus I have heard: At one time the World-Honored One was dwelling in the Anāthapiṇḍika Garden of Jetavana Park in the city kingdom of Śrāvastī, together with a group of 1,250 great bhikṣus."

Then in later texts we see moving from a common setting into a meditative world. See how the Vairocanabhisambodhi Sutra (also called a tantra in Tibetan Buddhism) begins:

"Thus have I heard. At one time the Bhagavān (Lord) was residing in the vast adamantine palace of the Dharma realm empowered by Tathāgatas, in which all the vajradharas had all assembled; the great pavilion [comparable to] the king of jewels, born of the Tathāgata’s faith-and-understanding, play, and supernatural transformations, was lofty, without a center or perimeter, and variously adorned with great and wondrous jewel-kings, and the body of a bodhisattva formed a lion throne."

The Tattvasamgraha Sutra (tantra) beings:

"Thus have I heard, once, the Bhagavat who is endowed with the thunderbolt empowered pledge and distinguished kinds of knowledge of all the Tathagatas; who has received the Dharma Kingdom initiation of the three worlds and the jeweled crown of all the Tathagatas; who is the Lord of great yoga and the all-knowing knowledge of all the Tathagatas; who has realized the equality of all mudras of all the Tathagatas and by every action has fulfilled all desires in all worlds of living beings without exception; who is the great, compassionate Vairocana, forever existing in the three periods of time and who is every body, speech and mind thunderbolt, the Tathagata, dwelt in the palace of the Lord of the Akanistha heaven bedecked with great gems, hung with variously shaped bells, and adorned with crescent moons, laced silk tassels with precious gems, flower wreaths and colored banners that swayed in the breeze, and which was inhabited, praised and extolled by all Tathagatas."

In the latest tantras we see even more "abstract" settings. The Hevajra Tantra:

"Thus have I heard: At one time Bhagavan dwelt in the wombs of the Vajra Lady which are the Body, Speech and Mind of all the Buddhas."

The Guhyagarbha Tantra:

"Thus at the time of this explanation, the Tathagata, genuinely perfect buddha and transcendent lord, was endowed with great rapture which is the identity of the indestructible body, speech and mind of all the tathagatas of the ten directions and four times. This is the nature in which all of them without exception, none excepted and omitting none at all, are indivisible, without distinction or difference. In the abode of Akanistha, without extremes or centre, on the radiant wheel of pristine cognitions that is the limitless ground, there is his celestial palace, blazing forth with jewels of pristine cognition, completely uninterrupted throughout the ten directions of space, fashioned as a square because it is vast in measureless enlightened attributes, and adorned with projecting bays of precious gems which are the superior pristine cognition."

Commentary explains:
"However, the (commonly cited) words I have heard are not uttered on this occasion because there is no dichotomy between self and others. The words have heard indicate that there is a difference between the teacher and the retinue, whereas during the compilation of this (tantra), the teacher himself appears as the Lord of Secrets (Vairapani) and explains in this world at the present time the very teaching which he previously gave in Akanistha."

The Kulayaraja Tantra:

"At a time this sermon was taught in the realm No-Below (Akanishtha) [where] Reality is [like] the sky, and the dimension of Reality itself (dharmadhatu) [like] the vastness [of the sky]. There is the place where the Mind itself (sems nyid) exists.
In the untainted mansion of pristine awareness [the All-Creating Sovereign's] own being (rang bzhin), Her actuating essence (ngo bo), Her compassion and pristine awareness became manifest as [various] retinues in the following way:..."


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 12th, 2010 at 11:07 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
No contradiction, true. Neither do I think a teaching being metaphorical is such a problem. Lot of sutras are like that, either completely or partially, including the Lotus and Avatamsaka sutras.

Regarding the use of such tools they sound great to me. Nice explanation, really.

I understand the general problem of Western perspective influenced by our idea of history (which is not every cultures' view). This creates a new way of looking at tradition and defines how we can absorb other views. About this I refer to Huseng's topic on buddhavacana.

I don't think it'd be impossible for European men to have a deeply religious view of life. Even as a Buddhist. But maybe this is easy for me to say because I've been attracted to religions since my childhood. Even after turning to Buddhism it took me a couple of years before I could get over the faith in God - not just on a mental but also on an emotional level. Materialism has never been my cup of tea. So the many worlds and beings throughout the multiverses is now OK with me. And one can even go to those places in Buddhism (also one of the functions of buddha-remembrance).

The crucial shift I think is from "matter only" to "consciousness only" (cittamatra - in its Buddhist sense, not Western misinterpretations). This realm of ours is made of concepts and feelings. Other realms are also like that. This is "thinking of buddha is seeing the buddha" - an idea applied in Vajrayana too, same as in the Pratyutpannasamadhi Sutra used by early Amita buddha-remembrance practitioners in China.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 12th, 2010 at 9:02 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Yes, it is impressive how he cares to reply to questions, I really appreciate it. As I've found out it a couple of years back not every teacher is like that.

Also, as you say, his replies focus on the personal and practical aspect. I think there is more difference in terms of language and perspective than philosophy between Adrian and Bloom. Otherwise I'm sure he would have replied in a different way as we've also touched the subject of literal interpretation. But I've informed him about this topic where I published our correspondence. Perhaps he may join us in this discussion.

A couple of days back I thought about the "four reliances" (Catvāri pratiśaraṇāni / 法四依) which says: "rely on nitartha and not on neyartha". Thus if Pure Land sutras are to be further explained (neyartha) they don't express the final meaning. Such is the case if we interpret it as only metaphorical, unlike teachings on emptiness and such. On the other hand, Shinran says the teaching of Amita Buddha's vows was Shakyamuni's true intention and final Dharma. What do you think?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 12th, 2010 at 8:34 PM
Title: Re: Seeing Your Nature
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is not enough to see simplicity, wisdom means seeing simplicity and complexity at the same time. This is the harmony of essence and function.

Unknown said:
Guishan said to the assembly, "People nowadays have great capacity but do not have great function."
Yangshan related this to a temple priest. The temple priest kicked over a stool. Hearing about it, Guishan burst into laughter.

Everywhere, suffering and pain;
everyone, vainly discussing the self.
Though they are buddha,
it's all buried beneath years of conditioning.
(Dogen/Loori: The True Dharma Eye, 279)


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 12th, 2010 at 6:00 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
As you can see, I asked explicitly the questions raised here in order to avoid ambiguity or misunderstanding. Concluding the results is that (1) Amita Buddha is both a dharmakaya and sambhogakaya, (2) and the Pure Land exists in conformity with the Buddhist definition of reality as a buddha-land. This has been my understanding of Shinshu interpretation before and now and Dr. Bloom had no objection to it as an incorrect view or something contrary to his understanding.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 12th, 2010 at 3:33 AM
Title: Re: Seeing Your Nature
Content:
Astus wrote:
White Lotus,

You talk about enlightenment as if it were the simplest thing in the world. Do you also think the great Zen teachers of the past were stupid people who learnt and practised for decades in mountains and monasteries before they claimed understanding? Should we tell the monks and nuns of today they can now go home since they're already buddhas?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 12th, 2010 at 3:13 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here's my correspondence with Dr. Alfred Bloom on the subject raised here.

Me:

I've leafed through the Kyogyoshinsho to find how Shinran talks about the existence of his buddha-land and Amita Buddha but I could find only that he views it just like other Pure Land thinkers before, as a recompensed land and sambhogakaya buddha resulting from the bodhisattva work and vows. On the other hand, my friend tried to explain to me that Shinran is radically different here saying that Amita Buddha is not somebody "10,000 buddha-lands to the West" (as it is generally understood in Mahayana) but rather - and about this I'm uncertain if I get it right - the nature of reality, an impersonal compassionate force of the universe, thus Other Power is not from a tathagata but the dependent existence of everything and shinjin is realising our co-dependency. Could you please enlighten me about the Shin view, possibly with some reference to Shinran's words?

Dr. Bloom:

Thank you for your inquiry. I hope that I can help you. I must say first that what I present is my personal understanding of Shinran. However, I believe that it has basis in Shinran’s writings.

With respect to the meaning of the term “reality”, you must be aware that it has a complex meaning. For some, it means and objective, independent or substantial  existence apart from human consciousness. For others, it is the content of one’s consciousness as in the “consciousness only” school in Mahayana Buddhism.

In Mahayana Buddhism ultimate reality is inconceivable, beyond our conception, empty. However, it may manifest in our consciousness through visualization practice or as an awareness of trust that one has been embraced by “reality” imaged as Amida Buddha.  Mahayana Buddhism holds that all beings have Buddha-nature, the potential to become Buddha. That is also an aspect of “reality.”

Shinran was trained in Tendai teaching which was greatly influenced by the Kegon teaching that we all exist within the Buddha-mind and all have the potentiality to become Buddha. While Shinran did not expect his followers to  get into the complex details of Mahayana philosophy, he held that trust in Amida’s Vows manifests in our consciousness as the assurance that we have been embraced by Amida Buddha and are destined for birth in the Pure Land and Buddhahood. This trust is aroused through the working of Amida’s Vow in our life or karmic history.

Given this background we can try to address your question about the reality of Amida or as I would like to put it, Amida as our reality.  In Shinran’s teaching we find three concepts of Amida. First there is the popularly understood Amida  that was in the background of his teaching as an aspect of Japanese Buddhism where Pure Land teaching was pervasive in every tradition as an upaya-compassionate means to help people who could not participate in monastic practices. Birth into the Pure Land  in this general tradition was through recitation of the name for karmic merit.

The second understanding of Amida is based in the story of Dharmakara in the Larger Pure Land Sutra where  after aeons of practice, the Bodhisattva established the Pure Land. For Shinran the story was important because the Amida  here is a Reward Body, a Buddha with beginning and no end. The Eighteenth Vow is important for Shinran, establishing the way of  faith-trust and recitation of the name as expression of gratitude.   According to his teaching (Notes on ‘Faith Alone’ (Yuishinshomin’I, and Jinen honi sho) Amida Buddha is the means for speaking about ultimate reality Dharmakaya, The Body of Truth.

The buddha in this  perspective is  on a higher spiritual plane, removed from the necessity to perform karmic acts of merit to secure birth in the Pure Land. Also Amida Buddha in this context is  the direct manifestion of the Body of truth. All other Buddhas are manifestations of Amida. He is not just one among many Buddhas that people may resort to for salvation.

This leads to Shinran’s own interpretation where Amida Buddha is Reality itself as the Eternal Buddha who has no beginning and no end. Here you can refer on my web page to the essay on the Ultimacy of Amida, Shinran’s Response to Tendai.

In Mahayana Buddhism there are three levels of Buddha corresponding to the traditional  three bodies of the Buddha:
The Level of Manifestation- a Buddha with a beginning and End, as is Sakyamuni and according to some interpreters, Amida who is said in the Sutra to have a lifespan of 42 kalpas before going into Nirvana.

2. The level of Reward Body or in modern terms of myth,  the Buddha with a beginning and no End, as when Dharmakara becomes Amida, residing in his Pure Land.

3. The eternal Buddha, Buddha with no beginning and no End. This understanding is rooted in the Lotus sutra, Chapter 16, but Shinran applied it to Amida. Here Amida  is the expression or term whereby we can speak of ultimate reality rather than just a  discrete Buddha among the host of Buddhas. This was  Shinran’s contribution to the development of the concept of Amida.

According to Shinran, Ultimate Amida is colorless, formless, inconceivable as the Body of truth. He is the Buddha-nature in all things. Wisdom is in the form of light, the formless form.  Consequently as the working of reality, trust is aroused within us, being endowed by Amida. Faith is the realization of Buddha-nature, the goal of all Mahayana practice.  All religious action, particularly Nembutsu becomes  an expression of gratitude. There is no need for merit.   

Thus we do not ask if Amida is real, but rather Amida is the reality of our lives as the motivating force for spiritual activity. As the universal ground of all existence, everything has Buddha-nature and is the manifestation of Amida in its particular form, benefitting our lives and all others.

In essence Amida Buddha is the symbolization of the process of interdependence. He is the reality of all relationships that nurture and promote life. Amida Buddha in the texts and as spoken about provides a focus for understanding the spirituality of all  things within our experience and world.

In my personal view, this is the most real of anything real. But it is  not literal, objective reality as something apart from my consciousness and life. It is my life. Amida in this view, as I would understand it, is real as an ideal is real. It is a force that influences life. Ideals have a reality though they are not objective, discrete things. They are real in our consciousness as sources of motivation.  Similarly there is no such thing as society as a discrete objective reality. Society is the sum total of our relationships as the context for the principles that we live by. Society is the way we relate to others.

I am not sure this will help you in your thinking. As for the  discussion on the Internet, it is important to understand that Shinran worked within the context of Mahayana philosophy and his understanding of Amida is shaped by that. I do not believe he was a literalist in the style that many people view the teaching today.  Mahayana philosophy teaches  the emptiness of all ideas and things, a la Nagarjuna (2nd century). This itself means that things have no reality in themselves but only in relation to other things, again interdependence.  Mahayana teaching is not literalist. 

The literalist trend among some interpreters of Shin Buddhism is a reflection their American cultural experience where fundamentalist Christianity, a large segment of American religion, is objectivist and literal. They are carrying this over to Buddhism. For those who wish to hold to Amida and the Pure Land as somehow literally  real, they  should also understand the reality of hells as presented in the tradition. If the Pure Land is a  discrete reality so must be the hells also which are the counterpoint or alternative to the Pure Land. If Amida is a discrete reality as they argue, then all the other Buddhas and Bodhisattvas in Buddhist texts have the same reality. Then the question is raised, if Amida Buddha is on the same level with   other Buddhas etc, what is the meaning of Shinran’s teaching?  Shin Buddhism is distinctive because it elevates Amida beyond popular conceptions and changed the definition  and meaning of religion not only in Japan but universally.  Religious faith is not about what you get (It is all given through the working of the Vow.) Religious faith is about what you give in the embodiment of compassion and wisdom.

Me:

After reading your mail a couple of times and your essay on Shinran's relationship with Tendai teachings I came up with the following question:

Amida Buddha is principally a dharmakaya buddha, equal to Vairocana in the Avatamsaka and Sakyamuni in the Lotus Sutra. At the same time, as a manifestation of mahakaruna Dharmakara Bodhisattva has manifested, attained anuttarasamyaksambodhi and established Sukhavati for saving all sentient beings. It appears to me that this teaching corresponds to the trikaya format, as you have also mentioned it, with the difference of Amida being the designation of both the ultimate and the relative (forming the unity of two truths in the middle way). And please correct me if I misunderstand something here, but then it comes down to the usual Mahayana setting of a buddha being manifest and unmanifest at the same time. Thus sambhogakaya Amida is as real as "earth, tiles and pebbles". Consequently a literal reading of the sutras on the Pure Land is not wrong but only the manifest level and realisation of the unmanifest happens after birth. This matches the Chinese explanation of first practising with mark to reach no-mark.

Does this meet your understanding? If not, please clarify for me at what point I go wrong.

Dr. Bloom:

I do not see any problem with what you state, except that I have problem with the term literal. I don’t think ancient people thought in those terms.  Literal, as I observe it from Christian fundamentalist thought, means objectively  existing apart from one’s consciousness, just as God is objectively real as the creator of the universe etc.  Thus they read the Bible literally meaning that what it says exists is existing independently. It is kind of  naïve realism.
 
I don’t think Buddhism takes any position like that. In fact it is clear from the Consciousness Only school that nothing exists separate from our consciousness of it. The Pure Land etc can be real within our consciousness as a means (upaya) to reach a deeper level of understanding, moving from form to formless, that is, as Shinran says in the Jinen honi sho, that Amida with form is a means (Ryo) to know the formless, colorless Dharmakaya. It does not exist by itself or for itself. Consequently, though this is wordy, Amida can be a spiritual reality within our consciousness as a spiritual guide and ideal.  
 
Also in the Middle Path school, all concepts are empty and come out of our delusory mind. It avoids substantialism, similarly to the Consciousness Only.  These philosophical perspectives underly all Mahayana schools.
 
There are other considerations, such as whatever interpretation we apply to Amida, must also apply to other Buddhas and descriptions in the many sutras. When it says that the Buddha’s tongue reached out to all the universes in the ten directions, is that to be taken literally. What would it mean? I think symbolic and metaphorical thinking as in the Sutras has spiritual meaning not metaphysical.

Me:

I guess I should clarify what I said first. I didn't propose that things are independent of one's perception (consciousness). But just because all things are mental (vijnapti) it doesn't mean they don't exist as individual causal streams. Thus we can say that there are uncountable sentient beings in the six realms just as there are immeasurable bodhisattvas and buddhas. This is not naive realism, neither idealism, nor solipsism. From this point of view I say that Amida Buddha as a sambhogakaya exists in the Pure Land just as you or me exist on Earth (Saha Land). But I'm not sure what you mean by "spiritual". If it is an equivalent of the realms realised by higher perception (abhijna) such as heavens and buddha-lands I see your point. If you meant something else, please explain.

If I caused a misunderstanding by using the word "literal" and this above clarifies what I meant I'm glad for then I believe we could see each other face to face.

Dr. Bloom:

Perhaps I was responding to the term literal from own background. I guess what I would say that we can consider anything “real” so far as it accords with the basic parameters of   Buddhist  teaching on the qualified nature of “existence. ” Certainly whatever status such  “reality” has,  it has causal impact. 
 
The important thing in Buddhist teaching as I understand it is how it inspires a person to move beyond the present level of  insight to deeper levels and understanding and thereby the reduction in our egoism and attachment to  our self-concepts, our world , our ideas and beliefs.  Buddhism is about the transformation of the mind.  Upaya and perhaps provisional beliefs etc can be helps depending on ones  mental  or spiritual development. Not every one is at the same point and Buddhism is not “one size fits all.”  People respond to different forms of presentation.  If the mythology of Buddhism in its concreteness helps a person  in spiritual growth, then it is “real.” It is the role of the “Good Teacher” to draw the person on, moving beyond forms, concepts etc. which all excite the ego and become objects of attachment.  Beyond that what would be the point?
 
Shinran expresses himself in several ways.  In  human situations of grief, he consoled his followers that he would meet them in the Pure Land. In his more scholarly writings, particularly Kyogyoshinsho, birth in the Pure Land is immediate buddhahood. The attainment of faith is one’s rebirth. Since Amida Buddha as the Eternal Buddha is wisdom in the form of light, he is formless and colorless, but the context or frame in which we understand our lives; hence very “real.” The Pure Land must also be ultimately formless and colorless as Nirvana is formless, beyond conception. The Buddha and the Land are  One. 
 
In our unrealized, unenlightened state, we can only talk about things in the dimension of form; consequently we do talk about Pure Land etc but not so much as place but of quality of existence, our spiritual ideal. It has the qualities of freedom, bliss, purity, ultimate fulfillment, joy, continual learning etc. 
 
I do not think we disagree perhaps, though we may have different ways of expressing ourselves. Amida is the real of the real; the reality of all our relations and a motive force in our everyday life as the power of compassion and the light that highlights our own shadows. The brighter the light the sharper the shadows.
 
 As for spirituality, it is a much used and abused term today. I guess for me things are spiritual to the extent that they indicate there is always something more than what our minds can encompass. It is vague because it points to the mystery that surrounds our lives and people become spiritual when they become aware that our lives have a deeper context which we may picture to ourselves, depending on what tradition we follow and how it shapes our attitudes and values. I do not see spirituality as a divisive things, but the more spiritual we are, the more we find our kinship with all being. For me Amida which means Infinite offers the most comprehensive perspective on the mystery that grounds our  lives.

Me:

Thank you for your kind attention. My original confusion was raised by thinking that if Amida Buddha is not a real being and the whole story of Dharmakara never happened there is no basis for an effective vow to save beings and bring them to the Western Realm. Naturally there are many ways to interpret sutras, however, certain doctrines are essential for a coherent system and such a teaching is the enlightenment of Amida Buddha and the creation of Pure Land to fulfil his vows. This seemed to be questioned by your (and others) presentation of Shinran's teachings and that's why I turned to you for elucidation of the matter.

It was today morning I realised our personal approaches to the Shin Dharma are quite different, which I believe is fine. As for its doctrinal aspect it appears we may agree. To give it (hopefully) a final test I have a question regarding the teaching's practical aspect.

You've mentioned Cittamantra and Madhyamaka as essential doctrines in Mahayana. On a personal level the six paramitas are the core of the path from delusion to buddhahood. I Chinese Pure Land and Jodoshu it is understood that one perfects the bodhisattva path after being born there. I'd like to know how the practice of the paramitas explained in Shinshu.

Dr. Bloom:

Thank you for your reply.  In interpreting religious  documents, I do not believe there is one right and wrong.  We have to understand texts according to our background and  knowledge at the time.  I think it is important to discuss issues and try to find areas of consensus.
 
There are doctrines which result from religious experience and in this case Shinran. Even in his own day there were differences of opinion. It makes for historical development. Some ideas are better than others and over time become the basic viewpoint.  With the shift in cultures from Japan-in this case- to the West, new questions are being asked that were not primary in Japan. That is why scholars differ among themselves in trying to respond to the modern situation. I see myself as just one of those responses for whatever it may be worth. It may help some people but not others. In my study course I tried to develop a more or less coherent approach to Shin Buddhism using  contemporary (as far as I understand it) considerations about myth and religious  imagery.  More than the  character of the story itself, the implications and meaning for  our lives  are the most important aspects. What spiritual insight it offers. Shinran reinterpreted the scripture in some areas to reflect his own experience and   for myself, I try to follow his lead in that because it  helps me understand my own experience. It can be different for different people-even within the same tradition.
 
I should respond to your question in this letter on the 6 paramitas which are regarded with high importance in Shin Buddhism. However, they are not  advocated as the means to enlightenment, but are inspired  by the Buddha’s compassion  when one realizes that Amida’s Vows, which symbolize the compassion that surrounds our lives , are the foundation of our spiritual life.  The story of Dharmakara, his Vows and fulfillment offer us a guiding vision in living our lives, and summarized in the six paramitas.  They are guiding principles for negotiating life. 
 
In earlier Pure Land teaching and as presented in the Sutras, the Pure Land is a staging area for the completion of the process to become a Buddha. Mahayana Buddhism  has an environmental theory implicit in it. That is, one cannot really achieve spiritual goals unless there is something in the environment that makes it possible. We are always involved in social relations and so, depending on our relationships, we progress in fulfilling our lives. That is why often religious teachers suggest that people seek out like-minded people in the practice of their faith. We all need reinforcement.   In Buddhist view, as presented in Mahayana, we live in the defiled realm in this world and in later teaching it was the age of the demise of the dharma-mappo when there was only teaching, but no practice or realization. It was a spiritually corrupt age.  Hence the Pure Land established by Amida  provides the impetus and attraction for people to pursue the ideals of the six paramitas and attain enlightenment and Buddhahood.  That is probably held by many people today and is a straightforward reading of the Sutra.
 
That said, Shinran reinterpreted the tradition and maintained that on reception of true entrusting in this life, we already are reborn in the Pure Land in principle. We are obviously, by our external condition, not there, but in terms of Amida’s Vows and compassion, the causes for our birth are set. People are already saved, but not aware of it until faith arises.  The moment of death is called birth into the Pure Land but for Shinran, it means the immediate attainment of Buddhahood.  There is no process to attainment in the Pure Land. In fact, according to his interpretation of the 22nd vow, rather than remaining in the Pure Land we return  to this world as bodhisattvas to work for the salvation of all beings. The ultimate goal is the salvation and Buddhahood of all beings and not simply residence in the Pure Land forever. I think I mentioned to you earlier that just to desire to go to the Pure Land because it is a place of pleasure and bliss, one does not go. That is because egoism is still the motivating factor.
 
While in our present state in life, we cannot claim to be bodhisattvas, the perception of who is the bodhisattva is the perspective of the other person whose life may be enhanced and assisted through one’s efforts—namely aspiring to fulfill the six paramitas in our lives as we are able and inspired by the vision of Amida’s unconditional compassion.  For Shinran, religion is not about getting-salvation or benefits, but about giving. Dana is the first paramita and highly stressed within the temples—and not only for money for the temple—but as the gift of our lives  to help others.
 
Unfortunately, of course, we are all foolish being-bombu- and so while we aspire to this ideal , we do not always fulfill it. We are filled with contradictions. Shinran’s teaching was aimed to reduce as far as he could the egoism that infects religion and all our lives. 
 
This gets back to the paramitas as guides. They are not rules and regulation or requirements for Amida’s embrace. They result, to the degree they are realized in our actions, from our awareness of that embrace by life and reality.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 9th, 2010 at 2:25 AM
Title: Re: What constitutes the word of the Buddha?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Defining what the Buddha's speech is needs a definition of "buddha" and "speech".

Historical: This is the view that there was a buddha very long time ago in Northern India and gave teachings on the way to attain nirvana. It supposes that with archaeological and philological methods it is possible to unearth the Original, the Real.

Religious: This is the view where a buddha is not merely a flesh and blood human but a spiritual entity beyond constraints of physicality. It supposes that with a purified consciousness it is/was (Mahayana/Theravada) possible to see and here such a being.

Transcendental: This is the view where a buddha is the very nature of reality, enlightenment itself. It supposes that actually there is no buddha to meet for it is our true nature.

Indeed, this is simply the teaching of the trikaya. Thus shravakas see the first, (novice) bodhisattvas the first two, and buddhas (and mahasattvas) all three. I think that it doesn't take much effort to see how these there are interdependent and interpenetrating each other. There is no need to doubt either scientific research or traditional teaching. Just remember how in the Avatamsaka Sutra the Buddha was present in infinite universes without moving from his bodhimanda.

To answer the question in an essence-function format: all appearances are the "speech", the nature of such phenomena is the "buddha".


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 7th, 2010 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: Who are your Top 5 Mahayana masters of all time?
Content:
Astus wrote:
1. Nagarjuna - for Madhyamaka
2. Dushun - for Huayan
3. Mazu Daoyi - for Hongzhou Chan
4. Guifeng Zongmi - for Heze Chan and Huayan
5. Thrangu Rinpoche - especially for his teachings on Mahamudra


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 7th, 2010 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: Pure Land as a meditation practice?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Keep one eye on what you can do, in the present situation. But keep the other eye on the final goal. If one only looks at the present situation, then one will stagnant, and ultimately never proceed further. If one only looks at the final goal, then one will be intimidated, and never begin. Some teaching focus more on one than the other, and it pays not to confuse the two."

Wow, that was really a good one, Master Huifeng! Sadhu, sadhu!


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, April 7th, 2010 at 3:36 AM
Title: Re: How Important Is Transmission?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Just bumped into this book: https://books.google.com/books?id=x2ZxQk2AfYsC&source=gbs_navlinks_s by Alan Cole. Here's a https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Az_pvDJJV6rsJ%3Awww.equinoxjournals.com%2Fojs%2Findex.php%2FBSR%2Farticle%2Fdownload%2F7747%2F5133.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 6th, 2010 at 7:49 PM
Title: Re: How Important Is Transmission?
Content:
Astus wrote:
In Soto Zen, dharma-transmission is part of becoming a fully authorised priest called osho (Chinese: heshang; Sanskrit: upadhyaya; i.e. preceptor). Thus it authorises one to be an abbot of a temple (family property). This is of course a result of historical development within Soto Zen as it became an organised church in Japan. I have no objection against that practice at all. What I think is important is to understand transmission not as a "diploma of enlightenment" but as a means to run a church. And that has been the case since the rise of Chan in China since the 11th century. Thus to say that anyone who aspires to be a teacher of Zen must have a paper is not a religious point of view but a bureaucratic one.

Again, that doesn't mean teachers are useless. It's just how we look at people who spread the Dharma. And also it defines our view of Zen. In my opinion Zen is part of Buddhism and has nothing special that could qualify it to be above any other school. It is a form of teaching (actually a large variety of forms) that can be studied and practised just as any other teaching. And some may become great teachers while many others don't regardless of having or not having a transmission from any organisation or lineage.

What the religious meaning of transmission is is the seeing of nature which is identical to the nature of all buddhas. That's how ideally paper transmission is a manifestation of mind-to-mind transmission, i.e. enlightenment. (Here it is also good to note even the meaning of enlightenment is questioned and debated by Zen teachers of the past.) As we can see, however, paper and mind-to-mind is not exactly the same. There are many enlightened people outside the Zen tradition too, so technically they have mind-to-mind transmission. And there are many non-enlightened people within Zen who have paper.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 6th, 2010 at 4:18 PM
Title: Re: How Important Is Transmission?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Yes, I know transmission is present in many forms within Buddhism but here I wanted to discuss the Zen version. If others can bring here enough research on Tantric (EA and Tibetan), Vinaya, Tiantai or other forms I would read it with great interest.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 6th, 2010 at 4:48 AM
Title: Re: How Important Is Transmission?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Being a broken lineage means that: no Zen patriarchal lineage was ever recognised in India and even in China it took some time to create it; the concept of transmission was revised a couple of times in the Tang; lineages and so called Zen houses were made up in the Song era; the Song myth of Tang Chan was revived in the Ming era with another forgery of lineages. These are in brief the subjects of those studies I mentioned in the opening post, but of course there are other works by different scholars if you are interested.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 6th, 2010 at 4:24 AM
Title: Re: How Important Is Transmission?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The weight of my opinion is open for scrutiny and argument.

The "current model" did not produce either Huangbo or Shengyan. What the model created is an imagined link (bloodline) connecting those two people to each other and back to Shakyamuni. My argument is exactly that this connection is non-existent in its historical sense of a teacher-disciple lineage. It's also good to note that Shengyan didn't really follow the Hongzhou school (what Huangbo belonged to) rhetoric of sudden enlightenment.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 6th, 2010 at 3:47 AM
Title: Re: How Important Is Transmission?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"What are your credentials again?"

What credentials are you looking for from me? Please look at the opening post to see what this is about here.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, April 6th, 2010 at 3:45 AM
Title: Re: How Important Is Transmission?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The only American Dharma-heir of Ven. Shengyan is Gilbert Gutierrez but he also has four other heirs in Europe (2 in UK, 1 in Switzerland, 1 in Croatia). These are the Western lay heirs, he has others (monks) in Taiwan as far as I know.

I wouldn't call Ven. Shengyan the head of Chinese Chan as a whole. He was the leader of his own community, the DDM, which was in Taiwan. I don't think he had any influence on things going on in the PRoC or other Taiwanese groups. Actually it seems to me that Chinese Buddhism doesn't have any single leader (if not the Ministry of Religion, or something like that).

I don't think anyone would suggest to drop the idea of transmission. It has been a central aspect of Chan ever since. Even the term "Patriarchal Chan" bears the significance of the concept. Personally I see no problem with it if handled properly and in light of historical events. But I think that in the West Dharma-transmission has been very much overemphasised, mystified and "misunderstood".

Zen has been advertised ever since as being an unbroken lineage from Shakyamuni Buddha up to the present. Actually it is severely broken in many parts. People claim reliability of Zen teachers based on their transmission (and not sutras or logical explanations of the Dharma for instance), therefore saying the source of such validity is forged must provoke a different view. Here I'm talking about the Western situation.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 5th, 2010 at 11:16 PM
Title: Re: How Important Is Transmission?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"As far as the Chan / Zen model goes, transmission has been deemed necessary."

Yes, that is the idea. But as we can see, it is not the reality. Then what's the point of a transmission that has no value as it's lost its historical validity? Actually Chan was attacked on this part by the rival Tiantai school questioning the historicity of its lineage. Now that we can see clearly it is invalid shouldn't it be wise to respond to this situation instead of clinging to an unstable concept?

"The leadership could presumably decide to change that doctrine however."

What leadership?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 5th, 2010 at 8:36 PM
Title: Re: The Silent Master
Content:
Astus wrote:
I didn't mean there were no teachings for the empowerment for there were. I meant he gives no teachings generally, you know, Dharma speeches.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 5th, 2010 at 6:40 PM
Title: Re: How Important Is Transmission?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Refuge in the Triple Jewel requires no preceptor, it never did. Who would be the precepter for taking refuge? If only monks then there are no Buddhists in Japan, nor one could get it from any lay teacher. By the way, don't you think if someone happened to find a sutra in a library and read it is karmic connection?

Transmission wasn't emphasised only when texts were rare but also when one could read the whole canon in the same monastery. And here this is not really about teachers generally but Zen masters defined by their lineage.

David,

I don't know if there are similar studies regarding Korean Buddhism. Nevertheless, looking into its recent history Dharma-transmission doesn't seem to play a central role. Master Seongcheol doesn't seem to have received any transmission (see his bio and prof. Hyewon Kang's essay "A Commentary on Venerable Songchul's Method for Seon Practice"), although he was supreme patriarch of the whole Jogye Order several times. Still, if the origin of such a transmission (India and China) is not reliable, there is no basis to claim connection to the Buddha in a form of historical lineage.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, April 5th, 2010 at 5:28 AM
Title: How Important Is Transmission?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'd like to bring up four books as major references:

John McRae: Seeing through Zen - Encounter, Transformation, and Genealogy in Chinese Chan Buddhism
John McRae: The Northern School and the Formation of Early Chʻan Buddhism
Morten Schlütter: How Zen Became Zen - The Dispute Over Enlightenment and the Formation of Chan Buddhism in Song-Dynasty China
Jiang Wu: Enlightenment in Dispute - The Reinvention of Chan Buddhism in Seventeenth-Century China

If one were to look into these fine works of modern scholarship covering important eras of Chan history the question of this topic may easily appear. We've been told by Western (and Eastern) Zen teachers how Dharma-transmission is so essential to Zen, and only a teacher with proper credentials can train students. Then it turns out there is no such thing as a proper credential. And it is not just that the 27/28 Indian patriarchs are fake, but the whole Tang "golden age" and the so called "five houses" too. Zen history was not made up only in the Song era but again in the Ming dynasty. And I guess such revival happened again with Xuyun in the 19th-20th century.

What is your reply to the question?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2010 at 5:54 PM
Title: Re: Lam Rim texts
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'd like to make a note that none of the Lam Rim texts could qualify as a "summary of the Pali Canon". For concise presentation of the Theravada (and not all Hinayana) path of similar quality one should look for Abhidhamma summaries like the Abhidhammattha Sangaha. Lam Rim texts are very distant relatives of such Theravada summaries.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2010 at 4:05 PM
Title: Re: The Silent Master
Content:
Astus wrote:
He has a small group of dedicated practitioners, about 5-6 people I met there, and I asked them about what teachings were given throughout the years.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2010 at 1:32 AM
Title: Re: The Silent Master
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm talking about a resident teacher and not just someone who came by, gave an empowerment and went on.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2010 at 7:05 PM
Title: The Silent Master
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't know many teachers from Tibetan schools that's why I ask this question.

Is it common, or normal, that a highly educated lama teaches to his Western community some sadhanas, gives the necessary empowerments, but otherwise gives no lectures on general Mahayana nor on Tantra? What could be a reason for this?


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2010 at 3:38 PM
Title: Re: Is there really a "just war"?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Not exactly about war but the relationship between Buddhism (Mahayana-Vajrayana) and Violance: http://vajrayana.faithweb.com/DGrayCompassionateViolence.pdf by David Gray. It is a great article in my opinion.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2010 at 8:56 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Sure, I'll bring his explanation here.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2010 at 7:45 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Andreas,

I've read the O'Neill article and sent a mail to Dr Bloom. What O'Neill said sounded quite like what you talked about here. But as I said, I'd like to see references to Shinran for this, if possible. Actually that's what I asked from Dr Bloom too. For while I accepted already what you've said as one of the interpretation of Shin Buddhism I still don't see it harmonising with Shinran's words. Maybe it is so, maybe not, I don't know yet. Nevertheless, it's OK with me to say that there are different versions of viewing Shin Buddhism.

Please don't take it as a fight. What you and those you refer to say about Shin Buddhism is fine by me on its own. I just want to see how that is connected to what Shinran himself said, and of course to the major picture of Mahayana.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2010 at 3:45 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
I have no idea where he practised, a more educated person might be able to answer that question. But bodhisattvas travel in myriads of buddha-lands, so it may not matter that much.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2010 at 2:53 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
To say that Mahayana sutras are not from the Buddha is to deny the Great Vehicle. The misunderstanding comes from not understanding what Buddhavacana (Buddha speech) means. I recommend you reading http://geocities.ws/sutrasbudistas/shastras/gran-vehiculo.html that also discusses the question of the Bodhisattva-pitaka, i.e. the Mahayana sutras.

I understand very well when people have problems with believing in beings beyond this physical Earth-realm. But in Buddhism there have always been hells, spirits, heavens and gods. There are infinite realms throughout the cosmos, thus infinite buddhas and bodhisattvas. There is not just the land of Amita Buddha but also the lands of Medicine Buddha, Akshobya Buddha, etc. Even in the Nikayas Shakyamuni talked about buddhas of the past.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2010 at 4:22 PM
Title: Re: Buddhism and Evolution
Content:
Astus wrote:
Problem is that literal and metaphorical reading should be true at the same time. So, like in the case of absorptions and heavens, it is true that different levels of dhyana correspond to different strata of heavens, and it is also true that there are literally those heavens with many gods. The inner and outer worlds are interrelated, thus all is consciousness only (which is not the same as solipsism or idealism). But in science the basic view is a separate objective world independent of mind. From this disagreement comes contradictions between the two views.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2010 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here I collected the words of Shinran from the Kyogyoshinsho. I believe these express his understanding honestly and clearly, therefore they can be relied on as definite teachings. This I have done in order to show my confusion openly about the way Shin Buddhism is taught by Bloom et al. I sincerely hope that if I missed something in the writings of Shinran, someone can point out to me where he says otherwise in a similar manner I now quote him and adding my interpretation of those paragraphs.

Shinjin is the heartfelt trust in the vows of Amita buddha. Those vows explicitly contain Dharmakara bodhisattva's intention to bring about a buddha-land where people can be born via buddha-remembrance. In Shinran's words:

"When the Larger Sutra says 'hear' [in the phrase 'having heard the Name'], it means that sentient beings, having heard how the Buddha made and fulfilled the Vow, entertain no doubt. This is what is meant by 'hear.' 'Faith' [in 'rejoice in faith'] refers to Faith endowed by the Primal Vow-Power. 'Rejoice' shows the state of joy in body and mind. 'Even (once)' is the word that comprises both many and few. 'A single thought' means that one's Faith is free of double-mindedness; hence, it is called 'a single thought.' This is what [Vasubandhu] calls 'the One Mind.' The One Mind is the true cause of birth in the Pure Land of Recompense."
(Chapter on Faith)

"When I contemplate 'recompense,' I find that the accomplished land has resulted as the recompense for the Tathagata's ocean-like Vow. Hence, 'recompensed.'"
(Chapter on True Buddha and Land)

He doesn't say it is a metaphor, or an expedient means. Quite the contrary, he writes more than once that Dharmakara bodhisattva's practice was pure and his compassion all-embracing, that's how he could create such a land:

"when the Tathagata awakened compassion for all suffering ocean-like sentient beings and performed the Bodhisattva practices for inconceivable, millions and billions of kalpas, his practices in three modes of action have never been impure or untrue, even for a thought-moment or an instant. With the pure and true mind, the Tathagata perfected the complete, all-merging, unhindered, inconceivable, [604b] indescribable and ineffable supreme virtue. The Tathagata endows his Sincere Mind to the ocean-like multitudes of beings who are full of evil passions, evil karma and perverted wisdom. This is the true mind endowed by him to benefit such beings; hence, it is not mixed with doubt. The basis for the Sincere Mind is the Sacred Name of the supreme virtue."
(Chapter on True Faith)

Shinran also talks about the Pure Land as a real place, compares it with other buddha-lands and makes distinctions, as found in the sutras, about difference in birth in the Pure Land:

"Provisional birth is birth in an embryonic state, and borderland; it is birth beneath the Twin Shala trees. Immediate birth refers to birth by sudden transformation into the Recompensed Land."
(Chapter on Provisional Buddhas and Lands)

Difference because of mixed and auxiliary practices:

"These are all the karmic cause for birth in the borderland, womb-palace and the realm of sloth and pride. Therefore, even though one is born in the Land of Utmost Bliss, one is unable to see the Three Treasures, for the light of the Buddha's mind does not illumine and embrace practicers of other miscellaneous acts."
(Chapter on Provisional Buddhas and Lands)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2010 at 12:18 AM
Title: Re: Buddhism and Evolution
Content:
Astus wrote:
I'm not talking about it being an enemy but careful consideration of taking science and especially scientism-physicalism as something compelling for Buddhism. On one hand it was rarely a problem for Buddhists to adopt to different cultures. However, neither in East-Asia nor in Tibet they gave up basic tenets of their cosmology.

I said Way but that has nothing to do with Taoism, it is for the Way to Enlightement, ie. Marga/Magga in Sanskrit/Pali and Dao in Chinese.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2010 at 9:45 PM
Title: Re: Buddhism and Evolution
Content:
Astus wrote:
It is a known trick to re-interpret ancient passages in a metaphorical way even if it was meant to be literal back then. However, that is accepting the validity of the other's position thus being forced to change one's own. Every religion did the same to other faiths when they conquered a land, just think about making saints, angels and demons from local spirits and gods in case of Christianity, and in Buddhism turning Indian gods to mortal beings and taming the demons of Tibet. When science can force other views to submit themselves to it, that is its victory, spreading scientific ideas (in this sense it is not a bit different from religions). But we can use instead of this "war" metaphor other forms, like the meme theory, to describe how one view infects another view.

Among the many options to choose from about how to look at the relationship between Buddhism and science, to take a Buddhist position we should rather look at the relevance and effectiveness of scientific ideas on the Way. There are many aspects to investigate for sure.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2010 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: Buddhism and Evolution
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Thanks for giving a broader explanation of what I called separating scientific from religious. Your description was what I had in mind.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 23rd, 2010 at 10:00 PM
Title: Re: Buddhism and Evolution
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think this brings up an apparent contradiction between scientific and Buddhist view. I mean, according to Buddhist cosmology there have been great empires and highly developed civilizations on Earth before. No scientific evidence for that. In Buddhism karma defines birth, so in case there were no humans here it must have been on a different world humans were born.

Or, it is possible to reinterpret religious cosmology as if it were somewhat metaphoric, for instance about the four continents and Mount Meru. I wonder what could be a solution here.

One simple and easy answer could be that there is a scientific and there is a religious world view, no need to match them. But this is hardly acceptible for those who see science as the source of really real truth about life, the world and everything.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 23rd, 2010 at 6:46 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Personally I have benefitted from "sitting at the foot" of some Zen teachers. It has its own advatages and disadvantages. I am sure, however, that I learnt nothing as far as theory and practice goes that I couldn't from non-personal sources. But that was my case, not everyone's. Nevertheless, as you said, we can access a great amount of information, and if needed talk to teachers and fellows about some problems. On the other hand, if one can join a community IRL, it is very good and so there's one teacher at least (in most cases).

I'm not so sure about the necessity of a Zen teacher in the past. What you say about the limited source of information is true of course. But if we imagine a monk who learnt the basics in a monastery and then goes to the mountains, there were no teachers at hand. He knew what to do, had the training to prepare for solitary practice, then went on and did his best. And when he returned he visited temples, was respected by others for his practice and wisdom and finally established his own temple.

We shouldn't forget either that documents of transmission were used in order to establish one's authority as the abbot of a monastery. It is liking joining the prestigious club of elite monks who claimed to be enlightened heirs of Bodhidharma. Certainly it was on one hand a proof of one's expertise but as we can learn from the texts the status of an abbot/Zen teacher was abused as well on a large scale.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 23rd, 2010 at 4:20 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

At another place Linji advises his disciples to go and find a teacher for time is short. Also he talks about his career that he studied the Vinaya, sutras, treatises, then started Chan practice and finally met a capable teacher. So perhaps he wasn't that maverick in the end.

Respect for teachers and fellow practitioners is important of course. Even in the Nikaya scriptures the Buddha told Ananda that good friends are not just the half but the whole of holy life. As I said, I'm not arguing for the dismissal of teachers, only against this concept that without a personal contact with a teacher one cannot progress on the path.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 23rd, 2010 at 6:58 AM
Title: Re: How useful are Chan records?
Content:
Astus wrote:
This is a great analysis on Chan texts with a focus on Zhaozhou's Wu: http://buddhiststudies.berkeley.edu/people/faculty/sharf/documents/Sharf%202007%20Chan%20Gongan.pdf


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 23rd, 2010 at 5:41 AM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Historical connection to the Buddha, the myth of unbroken lineage, might be true for monastic ordination, even though specific names and dates are unknown (and not important), but certainly not true for the so called Dharma-transmission of Zen. So that form of connection doesn't exist in a literal sense. However, in an ahistorical form there are different levels of connections ranging from hearing about the teaching up to enlightenment.

A teacher is a vessel of the Dharma, a medium. A teacher can transmit the teaching in many ways, like lectures, interviews, books and videos. To have a personal connection with a teacher is like having a good friend. But can we say that great masters who had literally hundreds of students were intimate with all of them? Unlikely. Also monks, following their initial years of training, have to be able to work on their own.

The guide of every Buddhist is the teaching of the Buddha. I go to my bookshelf (or C:\Users\Astus\My Documents\Sutra) and open the Avatamsaka Sutra I can read the very words of the Awakened One. In the Manifestation of Buddha chapter the knowledge of the essence of buddhas is called "teacherless spontaneous knowledge" (tr. Cleary, chapter 37; T10n0279, vol. 52, p0278a06). A couple of pages back it explains what "teacherless" stands for:

"If great enlightening beings accomplish the techniques of this great concentration of knowledge of adornments of buddhas of all worlds, they are teacherless because they can enter all principles and qualities of buddhas by themselves, without depending on another's instruction." (ch. 27; T10n0279, vol. 41, p0218a17-18)

Of course that doesn't mean there are no teachers. It is more like how the Diamond Sutra says Sakyamuni didn't learn anything from Dipamkara. As in the Avatamsaka Sutra:

"though they know things ultimately have no teacher, yet they always respect all teachers and those of experience; though they know true understanding of things does not come from another, yet they always respect skillful guides" (ch. 27; T10n0279, vol. 43, p0225b22-24)

As far as Zen history is concerned here, we can see that already at the beginning there were different factions with differing views. Now if we consider that there are so many factors defining what constitutes authentic teaching and to whom, it is virtually impossible to tell from the outside (ie. not joining any of them) who carries the real flame of transmission. Thus arguing for the necessity of a teacher - an enlightened Zen Master - becomes quite problematic.

I don't say teachers are useless, not at all. Without teachers Buddhism is dead. But this mentality of "ask your guru" is what I see as a deviance. In the words of Linji:

you take the words that come out of the mouths of a bunch of old teachers to be a description of the true Way. You think, 'This is a most wonderful teacher and friend. I have only the mind of a common mortal, I would never dare try to fathom such venerableness.' Blind idiots! You go through life with this kind of understanding, betraying your own two eyes, cringing and faltering like a donkey on an icy road, saying, 'I would never dare speak ill of such a good friend, I'd be afraid of making mouth karma!'" (tr. Watson, ch. 17; T47n1985_p0499b20-24)


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 22nd, 2010 at 11:45 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it is no different from questioning whether one meditates on loving-kindness or not. If you're clear about the meaning of the word you can match the experience, just like you can tell if the water is hot or cold.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 22nd, 2010 at 8:30 PM
Title: Re: What should you do when you don't have a Zen teacher yet?
Content:
Astus wrote:
I don't think Zen specifically requires a teacher compared to other Buddhist schools (except Secret Mantra where they are emphatic about the guru). For instance Dahui came up with the practice of huatou exactly in order to propagate Zen among the laity. In recent times Xuyun also had a fairly large number of lay followers.

While it is true that the majority of "home-stayers" are busy collecting merit by supporting the monks and nuns, that is not the only option. The idea of "Zen in action" is essentially for those who are not in a monastery or a cave. Also it is not a coincidence that one of the most favourite sutras of Zen is about a layman.

What to do to practise Zen? Simple. Abide in the Unborn - as Bankei said, again a popular teacher. Trust in the Empty Doer - aka Juingong as Daehaeng Kunsunim says. It is accessible all the time. What else one would need?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2010 at 2:04 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana and the Dhyanas/Jhanas
Content:
Astus wrote:
BTW, to reply to your question, bodhicitta is fully sufficient for preventing one to get lost in illusory nirvanas.


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 19th, 2010 at 4:18 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana and the Dhyanas/Jhanas
Content:
Astus wrote:
Only non-returners (anagami) and arhats are free from the kamaloka. On the other hand, just by mastering dhyanas and samapattis (eight jhanas) one never becomes an arya of any level. These absorptions can result in heavenly births in the rupa and arupalokas, so they're said to be parts of the teaching of men and gods that is before the level of sravakas. Also don't forget that there is a dhyanaparamita for the bodhisattvas.


