﻿Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 18th, 2010 at 9:04 PM
Title: Re: Pure Land as a meditation practice?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The Pure Land teaching has always had meditation as the central piece of the tradition. What came to be the Jodo and Jodo Shinshu schools in Japan are quite radicals compared to all the others. If you want a more detailed description of the options check http://www.ymba.org/BWF/bwf0.htm. As for buddha-remembrance practice, this is a really nice text: http://www.ymba.org/monkey/monkyfrm.htm.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 18th, 2010 at 6:38 PM
Title: Re: Yidam and Dzogchen
Content:
Astus wrote:
Deity-yoga is at the heart of Mantrayana. Depending on the level one practises different styles of yidam practice is applied. In case of Atiyoga level we could say that the nature of mind becomes the deity. Consulting with one's teacher is for clarifying your personal needs. For general instructions there are many sources one can go for, from live teachings to tantras. Here's one for you:

Lady Tsogyal asks, Guru Rinpoche answers
("The Vajra Master & the Yidam Deity" in Dzogchen Essentials: The Path That Clarifies Confusion)

Why is it important to practice the yidam deity?

It is essential to practice a yidam deity because through that you will attain siddhis, your obstacles will be removed, and you will obtain powers, receive blessings, and give rise to realization. Since all these qualities result from practicing the yidam deity, then without the yidam deity you will be just an ordinary person. By practicing the yidam deity, you attain the siddhis, so the yidam deity is essential.

...

If one's view is high, is it permissible to dispense with the yidam deity?

If you attain confidence in the correct view, then that itself is the yidam deity. Do not regard the yidam deity as a form body. Once you realize the nature of dharmakaya, you will have accomplished the yidam deity.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 18th, 2010 at 4:16 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Not just because the Pali Canon is not part of any East Asian collection of scriptures, but also looking into Hinayana materials is a 20th century phenomenon not done for more than a millennium. Also it's worth mentioning that one wouldn't fine a single reference in it to Amita Buddha, or even buddha-lands.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2010 at 7:47 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Thanks especially for that interview link. It speaks in clear words that here Amida is the same as dependent origination and not an enlightened being in a buddha-land. Thus it symbolises reality, as Bloom said. Shinjin is realising that we're bad people full of karmic delusion, but this is all dependently originated, so it is not really mine. Am I correct?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2010 at 4:28 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
"Amida Buddha which is the Wisdom and Compassion of the cosmos transmits the Light of insight and we see more deeply."

What do you mean by "compassion of the cosmos"? You imply that stars, rocks and gases have compassion? Or there is a separate natural force besides the four elements, similar to gravity?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2010 at 5:44 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy eye,

Nice you mentioned that book, it was just last weekend I finished reading it. Personally I found it very eclectic and thus confusing for those who have no knowledge of East-Asian Buddhism. Mixing the Pali scriptures with popular Mahayana sutras seems a not so good idea to me. Plus it is not just a collection of quotes but actually a rewritten version. Fairly readable but not the kind of book one should analyse it on a finer level of meaning. For that the original texts are indispensable, like the Pure Land sutras themselves. If you want a taste of the difficulty of Mind Only teaching try the Mahayanasamgraha by Asanga as an introduction.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2010 at 5:22 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Andreas,

Good to read your thoughtful response. What you say appears to me that it is very much connected with the trend of finding "original Buddhism" - well known in Japan. It's similar to Soto people taking up Dogen from the long past and saying he knew it all and that's enough, never mind the past 800 years, or those before him.

Of course, a traditionalist-modernist debate should be avoided. Today's popular thinking raises its own challenges for all schools. Turning back to the "original" and being more socially engaged are well known effects of West meeting East. Maybe something enduring emerges from it, maybe it is just a temporary phase. I cannot tell. What I know is that a comparative study of modern Theravada, Zen and Shin would be really intriguing. I think they show similar changes to fit a modern mindset.

To me, as far as Pure Land soteriology goes - including Shin - the great wonder is giving an option for stupid people to reach liberation. As the Tannisho (§15) says, "This is the effortless practice undertaken by inferior religious practicers in which the distinction between good and evil is non-existent." To make it anything more complicated than believing that Amita Buddha saves those who trust in his vows is contrary to Amita Buddha's intention as explained in the sutras. Of course, that doesn't mean there can be no difficult to understand explanations and philosophies based on that. And I'm not talking against anyone here.

It seems strange to me to say that Shinran greatly diverged from what Honen and the other patriarchs taught when it is Shinran himself claiming to be a direct follower of their teachings. He not just knew Honen personally but had his magnum opus, the Senchakushu, at hand. In case he didn't agree with that fully he could have said so, don't you think? Nevertheless, that's not to say Shinran didn't have his own perspectives and style of teaching.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2010 at 12:21 AM
Title: Re: The value of non-Buddhist literature?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"As a Bodhisattva always comes to live in this world in order to save the sentient beings, he/she must be proficient in all kinds of worldly knowledge and skills. Thus, he/she should have a good profession for earning a living and serving the other people. Through all these actions, he/she can gather the other sentient beings and show them how to cultivate the Buddhist Way. A Bodhisattva must have a good knowledge of the Five Sciences."

Five sciences (pancavidya):

Language (Sabda)
Craftsmanship (Silpakarmasthana)
Medicine (Cikitsa)
Logic (Hetu)
Philosophy (Adhyatma)

http://www.buddhistdoor.com/OldWeb/bdoor/archive/nutshell/teach16.htm


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 16th, 2010 at 4:02 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Andreas,

Thank your for your kind reply and correction. I'm not trying to tell who is a real Shin follower and who is not. Sorry if my language wasn't appropriate. To me Shin as presented by Adrian sounded sensible and more in line with common (non-Shin) Pure Land thought. And if that is a minority view what he says I'd still like to understand the other version. By understanding I mean to have it explained in agreement with general Mahayana teachings, like transference of merit, buddha-lands, three bodies, dependent origination, etc. My other idea was once that Shinran turned Pure Land teachings into something very lofty, like as you said, dropping all self-centred effort, leaving mental proliferation (calculation) behind, and so on. In that case it resembles Zen a lot, or even more extreme. But that I find so contrary to the emphasis on unenlightened wicked nature and the concept of nenbutsu being a path for all. If it is such a radical no-effort, no-method teaching, I can only imagine that it is a way of very very few people. And thus it would belong to the Path of Sages and not the easy path of Pure Land. See now what I'm perplexed about?


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 15th, 2010 at 7:07 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Namu Butsu,

Thanks for the quote. It seems to me more emotional-poetic than logical-descriptive, so I'd rather not analyse its content.

What I'm asking is a clear technical outline of the method of realising ultimate reality in your interpretation of Shin Buddhism. Otherwise it is difficult for me to undestand what you exactly say and where our agreements and disagreements lie.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 15th, 2010 at 5:05 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Namu Butsu,

What you say I'm all OK with it. That certainly sounds like a faith lived at its full extent. It is wonderful. My argument was only against saying that Amita Buddha is not a real being who reached perfect enlightenment via walking the bodhisattva path for many aeons. To say that Amita Buddha is also a dharmakaya buddha and the true nature of everything is not a contradiction but the application of the three bodies (trikaya) teaching, that is definitely fine with me.

Regarding Dr. Bloom's letter I have a question. How do you get in contact with that ultimate reality? If it is through Amita Buddha's compassion then isn't it the case that actually there is a buddha (sambhogakaya) leading people to it (dharmakaya)? And if that is the case there is no disagreement here as such is the teaching of all Pure Land sects, what he, however, calls a myth (if I get it right).


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 15th, 2010 at 4:49 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Glad to see you here Andreas. You're right, I'm not a Shin follower as stated in my initial post. I'm not on a crusade either, so if you can reply to what I presented here as my unprofessional understanding of Shinran's thought I'd happily change my mind. My problem has been with Shin Buddhism as described by some that if shinjin equalled attaining non-retrogression - the realisation of no-birth of dharmas - in the here and now instead of meaning an assured birth in the Pure Land and consequently attaining enlightenment, it'd be in direct contradiction with not just Honen but generally Mahayana. But if it is simply an assured birth then a real Amita Buddha and a real Pure Land is necessary. Or it might be that my logic here is faulty somewhere. If so, please point at my mistake.


Author: Astus
Date: Monday, March 15th, 2010 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy eye,

What Ouyi, Hanshan and other masters say are all right and I have no problem with it at all. The issue here is not the validity of other forms of the Pure Land tradition but the interpretation of the Shin thought. Neither Honen nor Shinran advocated the so called Mind Only Pure Land (唯心淨土), although I think they were well aware of its existence. It is because they found the Pure Land path the single option for deluded common men of the Dharma ending age. Understanding the meaning of the teaching of Mind Only not being an easy task it seems natural to me that such a teaching cannot be called a universal means saving people of all capacities from high to low.

Reinterpreting the teaching to fit current needs is very good. But the criterion of transformation is on one hand to stay true to the original intention and on the other to bring good results. Now, saying that Amita Buddha is the true nature of mind without providing the necessary methods is misleading. Simple faith doesn't lead to recognising buddha-mind, neither does the sole repetition of any sets of words. Thus it is not enough to change the presentation of Shin Buddhism, one has to give a complete practical path too. Finally, if one reforms not only the explanation but the technique too it becomes a new lineage and it is not to be called Jodo Shinshu any more.

Unknown said:
If one wishes to see the Buddha then one sees him. If one sees him then one asks questions. If one asks then one is answered, one hears the sutras and rejoices greatly. One reflects thus: 'Where did the Buddha come from? Where did I go to?' and one thinks to oneself: 'The Buddha came from nowhere, and I also went nowhere.' One thinks to oneself: The Three Realms—the Realm of Desire, the Realm of Form, and the Realm of the Formless—these Three Realms are simply made by thought. Whatever I think, that I see. The mind creates the Buddha. The mind itself sees him. The mind is the Buddha. The mind is the Tathagata. The mind is my body, the mind sees the Buddha. The mind does not itself know the mind, the mind does not itself see mind. A mind with conceptions is stupidity, a mind without conceptions is nirvana. There is nothing in these dharmas which can be enjoyed; they are all made by thinking. If thinking is nothing but empty, then anything which is thought is also utterly nonexistent.' So it is, Bhadrapala, such is the vision of the bodhisattvas who are established in the meditation."
The Buddha then recited the following verses:

Mind does not know mind;
With mind one cannot see mind.
Mind giving rise to conceptions is stupidity;
Free of conceptions it is nirvana.

There is nothing fixed or firm in these dharmas;
They are forever located in thinking.
When one understands emptiness,
One is altogether free of conceptual thinking.

Astus wrote:
This is what the Buddha said in the Pratyutpanna Samadhi Sutra (ch. 2, tr. by Paul Harrison), which inspired many to practice in order to reach the Western Land of Amita Buddha in China since it was translated in 179 CE by Lokaksema among the very first Mahayana texts to be found in Chinese. However, in the Pure Land tradition this is not considered to be a central scripture unlike the so called Three Pure Land Sutras.

I think that Pure Land Buddhism as it is found in East Asia is far from being attracting for a modern audience full of materialist concepts. But not everyone is like that even in the so called West. And those who tried hard to follow any of the Sage's Path but had to realise his/her failure the easy path of buddha-remembrance provides an escape even for them from the grip of life and death.

Many cannot even live according to the five lay precepts. Isn't it then a massive delusion to hope for enlightenment in this life when even their human birth is far from being assured? Of course, not taking the teaching of karma seriously and being ignorant of the drawbacks of samsara it is no wonder people are short sighted and look for only the present benefits.

Shinran in chapter 4 of the Kyogyoshinsho describes the activities of enlightened beings who dwell in the Pure Land, that is the returning phase. However, until we're still about to go there his words in the Shoshinge apply (stanza 8):

"The Light of All-embracing Compassion always illumines and protects us;
The darkness of ignorance has already been destroyed by it,
But still the clouds and mists of greed, desire, anger and enmity
Continually cover the sky of True Faith;"

If it were so that people reached the Pure Land here and now they would be like this (stanza 18):

"Upon reaching the World of Lotus-store,
We will realize True Suchness and attain Dharma-body.
Then, playing in the forests of evil passions, we will display supernatural powers;
Entering Samsaric states, we will manifest accommodative and transformed bodies to save beings."

Do you really think common deluded beings can easily realise Amita Buddha as the self-nature and perform the tasks of an enlightened bodhisattva? If not, it is misleading to tell them so.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2010 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Do you think Honen thought of himself as a reformer to change the face of Japanese Buddhism for ever? But he did. It is a fascinating biography.

Do you know if they already do online ordinations in Japan like for Christians in the USA? I'd love to get a black robe.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2010 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

I see, so you're saying that even the churches and abbots don't care about the quality of their teaching. That is sad indeed. Then perhaps you should study hard and become a reformer priest!


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2010 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
In Mahayana there are uncountable buddhas throughout the infinite worlds. They're as real as this and many other galaxies. Revering many enlightened ones is one of the features of Mahayana. Saying that it is not the teaching of the Buddha is questioning the truth of the Great Vehicle. It is not only the Pure Land sect saying that Amita Buddha and all the others are real but the very sutras themselves accepted in every Mahayana tradition from Tibet to Japan.

Buddhism is not about the present moment but leading sentient beings from suffering to real happiness. Aspiring to be born in any of the buddha-lands is one among the many ways someone could achieve that. And among the myriad buddha-lands the Western Land of Amita Buddha is a special one as far as it is accessible to simple deluded beings and not just enlightened bodhisattvas. The method to be born there is found not only in the so called Pure Land tradition but also in all the other Mahayana schools, including Tibetan ones.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with theistic religions. The Pure Land is not the end but a special environment to attain liberation. Amita Buddha is not a god but a perfectly enlightened being. I recommend you first read this short http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism/pureland/inropl.html. And this is a very succinct introduction to Shin Buddhism: http://www.nembutsu.info/primshin.htm.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2010 at 9:20 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Lazy_eye,

Although the Pure Land teachings can be slightly different from those in Japan, look at what the late patriarch Yin Kuang said:

"Ordinary people generally think that if the Pure Land is Mind-Only, then it does not exist. This is the understanding of demons and externalists. Such a deluded view, which appears correct but is in reality wrong, affects more than half of all people and causes practitioners to forfeit true benefits."
(Pure-Land Zen, letter 12, p. 57)

And patriarch Tiantai Zhiyi said:

"The dull and ignorant, on the other hand, are caught up in the concept of birth. Upon hearing the term “Birth”, they understand it as actual birth; hearing of “Non-Birth”, they (cling to its literal meaning) and think that there is no rebirth anywhere. Little do they realize that “Birth is precisely Non-Birth, and Non-Birth does not hinder Birth.” 
Because they do not understand this principle, they provoke arguments, slandering and deprecating those who seek rebirth in the Western Pure Land. What a great mistake! They are guilty of vilifying the Dharma and belong to the ranks of deluded externalists (non-Buddhists)."
(Ten Doubts about Pure Land)

Finally, here is Shinran's quote of Tanluan's explanation:

"Question: In Mahayana sutras and discourses it is repeatedly explained that sentient beings are, in the final analysis, like space, unborn. Why does Bodhisattva Vasubandhu state that he aspires to be born?

Answer: When it is explained that sentient beings are, like space, unborn, there are two possible meanings. First, sentient beings and their births and deaths conceived as real by ordinary people are, after all, as non-existent as the hair of a tortoise or open space. Second, since all things are produced by causes and conditions, they are as unproduced and as non-existent as open space. The birth that Bodhisattva Vasubandhu desired should be taken in the sense of [produced by] causes and conditions. Because birth takes place depending on causes and conditions, it is only provisionally called 'birth,' not in the sense that there are real sentient beings and real births and deaths as ordinary people imagine.

Question: In what sense do you speak of 'birth'?

Answer: When someone among those who are thus provisionally called 'men' performs the Five Mindful Practices, his thought in the preceding moment becomes the cause of his thought in the following moment. The provisional 'person' in this defiled land and the provisional 'person' in the Pure Land (who he is going to be) are neither exactly the same [593a] nor definitely different. Likewise, the thought of the preceding moment and that of the following moment are neither exactly the same nor definitely different. Why is this so? If they were the same, there would be no causality, and if they were different, there would be no continuity. This principle is explained in detail in the discourses dealing with the problem of 'sameness' and 'difference'."


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2010 at 9:01 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Namu Butsu,

"One doesn't have to believe that Amida is like a christ like being somewhere off in heaven."

I understand very much that this is the impression of many Western people who hear about the Pure Land path, especially considering that in the Shin school it is "salvation only by faith". It takes some learning to fully understand the purpose and meaning of this teaching within the Buddhist context. And of course it is difficult to absorb even the basics of Shakyamuni's teachings, not to mention the deeper levels of Mahayana. Without comprehending the reasons for the selection of exclusive nenbutsu as it is described in the Senchakushu (see it outlined http://www.jsri.jp/English/Honen/TEACHINGS/senchaku/process.html, also discussed in http://www12.canvas.ne.jp/horai/kgss-g.htm ) one may confuse the meaning of faith in the Primal Vow.

Ways to see one's true nature "here and now" are abundant in Mahayana, adding teachings on Amita Buddha and the Land of Peace and Bliss to it are quite redundant. On the contrary, it happened that Amita Buddha was already popular when traditions like Tiantai and especially Chan took it up and explained it in their own ways.

Shinran also explained that those who abuse the Dharma are the only persons who cannot attain birth in the Pure Land. Defining the meaning of abusing the Dharma he quotes Vasubandhu: "If one says, "There is no Buddha," "There is no Buddha Dharma," "There is no bodhisattva," or "There is no Dharma for bodhisattvas," such views, held firmly in the mind by one's own reasoning or by listening to others' teachings, are called 'abusing the right Dharma.'" Denying the existence of Amita Buddha clearly cuts away the possibility of birth for then there is neither faith nor aspiration. What's the point of calling it a Pure Land school?


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2010 at 8:06 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Huseng,

Certainly, as it is reported from many sources Japanese Buddhism is in a sad state, not because of an external force oppressing it, but materialism taking over the hearts of people. On the other hand, wasn't that the same before? You read ancient Chinese Buddhist masters complaining about the decline in study and discipline among the monks. The teaching about the Dharma ending age is not new at all. The difference between now and then is while formerly people turned to gods, spirits and magic, now they have science, TV and malls. A change in appearance but not much in attitude. Japan is among the highest developed countries on Earth. And just like in the case of divine beings, people with enough wealth to feed a whole village for a week or more have little interest beyond their own. Since I believe Japan is the closest thing one can get to Western mentality, we better watch and learn how those few who take Buddhadharma seriously live and talk in such a society. When Shinran and other Kamakura reformers lived large Buddhist institutions were at war against each other. Isn't it better now? They could banish Honen, Shinran and Nichiren to dangerous lands only because of their teachings and expel Dogen from Kyoto. Isn't it better now to let everyone preach what they want?

While the idea of Dharma ending age is elemental in the Pure Land schools, historically (a very Western thing) looking at the present there wasn't much change in the past millennia regarding the percentage of people devoting themselves to understanding Buddhism deeply.

"Concerning the difficulty of accepting this Dharma in faith, to transform ordinary people into sages through this Dharma is actually as easy as turning one's palms - so easy that many people with shallow wisdom are skeptical about this. Thus the Larger Sutra, fasc. 2, states, "[The Pure Land] is easy to reach, but very few actually go there." Hence, we know that this Dharma is difficult to accept in faith."
(Yongqin quoted in the Kyogyoshinsho, tr. by H. Inagaki)


Author: Astus
Date: Friday, March 12th, 2010 at 6:02 PM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
Dear Namu Butsu,

After reading both your writing and that critique first I have to say that it is worth studying Buddhism on a wider level. The idea presented by many that Amita Buddha is one's own pure mind is not new at all. Let's say, as it is presented in Zen, Tendai and Shingon the practice of Amida is like that but in Jodo and Jodo Shin it is different. That is because in Honen's and Shinran's perspective the jodomon (gate of Pure Land is the only available path for deluded guys (bonpu) incapable of any shodomon (gate of wise non-Pure Land) practices. If this point is missed obviously the meaning of the Pure Land teaching of Honen and Shinran are misunderstood. Saving oneself is tha path of jiriki (self-power), the Shin path is full tariki (other-power). If Amida is not really a buddha but just my mind there is no way to rely on an other power, and if there is no buddha-land there is only hell to be born in.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2010 at 5:20 PM
Title: Re: Is Buddhism a Religion?
Content:
Astus wrote:
What is missing from other cultures is the separation of philosophy from religion. It was in ancient Greece that men came up with a critical view of reality. Xenophanes (6th c. BCE) even criticised ruling concepts about gods and tradition. Since we have this distinction of philosophy from religion unlike anyone else, it is natural that applying these ideas for other cultures is problematic. If we look at ancient philosophy that had no problem with gods and propagagated a way of life we could say that Buddhism is a philosophy. What makes it not just a "love of wisdom" is that it claims to be "wisdom" itself, thus religion. This brings us to the second fundamental difference between philosophy and religion, in religion there is no space for "free thinking" for one is told what to accept as truth, hence orthodoxy.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, March 4th, 2010 at 12:25 AM
Title: Re: Is there a Mahayana/Vajrayana Equivalent to accesstoinsight?
Content:
Huseng said:
I find when I look for them online they tend to be links to all the various book merchants who want to sell paper copies of various texts.

I often wonder myself if there are any actual archives...

Astus wrote:
Exactly my experience. Almost every little Japanese temple have their own homepage but no teachings? Really strange. Do you know any reason behind this?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2010 at 8:53 PM
Title: Re: Is there a Mahayana/Vajrayana Equivalent to accesstoinsight?
Content:
Astus wrote:
By the way, does anyone know a good source of online (modern) Japanese translations for sutras?


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2010 at 5:44 PM
Title: Re: Is there a Mahayana/Vajrayana Equivalent to accesstoinsight?
Content:
Astus wrote:
Creating anything similar to ATI in English is quite difficult. First of all there are copyright issues. Mahayana sutras have been translated by a large number of translators and groups. But you can find a lot around the Web if you know where to go. Plus Mahayana is a lot more diverse than Theravada.

On the other hand, you cannot get almost any Abhidhamma material online even though many of them are translated by PTS.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2010 at 3:49 AM
Title: Re: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
I think it is a similar case as with rebirth generally. Many cannot move beyond their materialistic ideas and so they want to make Buddhism fit their concepts. In case of Pure Land Buddhism, some like to say that it is only a mental state and there is no such place as an actual buddha-land where beings can be born. And just as without rebirth Buddhism is meaningless, so is the Pure Land path pointless without Amita Buddha escorting beings to his Land of Bliss.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2010 at 6:46 AM
Title: Divergences from the Jodo Shinshu Teachings
Content:
Astus wrote:
I found again the blog of the Amida-ji Retreat Temple Romania written by Josho Adrian Cirlea. What surprised me is that he was the first I saw addressing strange tendencies among Shin believers. He made a collection of articles addressing this issue: https://amida-ji-retreat-temple-romania.blogspot.com/search/label/DIVERGENCES%20FROM%20THE%20JODO%20SHINSHU%20TEACHING

Based on my little experience with modern Shin teachings I think he speaks the truth. I've been perplexed before on how Shin Buddhists don't accept a really existing buddha-land of Amita Buddha. Now it seems clear. But, I'm not specifically a Shin follower myself, so I'd like to hear whatever opinion you have.


Author: Astus
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2010 at 4:45 AM
Title: Re: where to go to seek confirmation of attainment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
White Lotus,

In brief, my point is that outside of appearances there is no such thing as emptiness. The very fact that all are illusions means that they're dependently originated and without any substance.

Jnanamitra's commentary to the Heart Sutra says (The Heart Sutra Explained, tr. by D.S. Lopez, p. 58),

"Form" is a word that conventionally designates the form that is seen and conceived by those with mistaken minds who have not understood the nature of emptiness. Regarding "emptiness", because emptiness is the nature of form, [form] is without characteristic and unobservable in the past and is without characteristic and unobservable in the present and the future. Therefore, since it does not abide anywhere or in anything, [the sutra*] says "emptiness". "Emptiness is form" conventionally designates with words that even emptiness [has] an unobservable nature [like] form. Because it does not abide apart from that [form], emptiness is form. Regarding "Emptiness is not other than form, form is not other than emptiness,'' that very thing which is form is the inexpressible emptiness; [when] form is abandoned, emptiness is not to be found. Therefore, it is said that emptiness is not other than form. That very thing which is the inexpressible emptiness does not exist and is not found apart from that which is conventionally designated with the word "form." Therefore, it is said that form is not other than emptiness.


Author: Astus
Date: Sunday, February 28th, 2010 at 11:07 PM
Title: Re: where to go to seek confirmation of attainment?
Content:
Unknown said:
i am suggesting that even consciousness is extinuished, replaced with emptiness.

Astus wrote:
By this you mean that consciousness and emptiness are two separate things. Tsongkhapa says,

"So long as the two understandings - of appearance,
Which is undeceiving dependent origination,
And emptiness devoid of all theses - remain separate,
So long you have not realized the intent of the Sage."
(The Three Principal Aspects of the Path, 11.)

Unknown said:
yet pain continues, and colds, toothaches etc.

Astus wrote:
Perception of feelings is the work of skandhas. The very fact of perceiving is what the skandhas are.

Unknown said:
if it were not possible for something to become sunyatman

Astus wrote:
Things don't become empty of self, they're already so. If it were a matter of emptying emptiness itself would be constructed.

Unknown said:
i am questioning whether or not the five skhandas can be dissolved without the appearance of death.

Astus wrote:
Even the buddhas can see, hear, feel and think. These are the aggregates.

Unknown said:
i dont feel a self of any kind ... i have no feeling of mineness about anything

Astus wrote:
I guess when you're leaving the barbershop you can tell which coat is yours. Seeing that something is in one's possession or not requires a discriminating subject. So what kind of self you yourself don't have? Isn't it a poor self who has no self?
I'm just trying to highlight a contradiction in what you say.


Author: Astus
Date: Saturday, February 27th, 2010 at 5:39 AM
Title: Re: where to go to seek confirmation of attainment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
1. Without consciousness it is like a piece of rock: insentient, dead. If there were no skandhas even understanding there are no skandhas would be impossible, not to mention writing about that here.
2. Skandhas are not about recognising or not recognising a self. All the aggregates are originally without any self, nevertheless there is the delusion of conceiving a view of self. But as I said, without skandhas means one cannot even wipe one's arse.
3. Who doesn't feel a self?

I don't mind if you're saying you attained some sort of enlightenment. But first it is best to understand what the Buddha taught about the nature of life and what nirvana is in Buddhism. You see, there are even grades of enlightenment in the Buddhadharma. When one has realised there is no permanent self it is indeed a good thing, the elimination of self-view (satkaya-drsti / sakkaya-ditthi). Then move on, don't say it is enough. The true goal, liberation, is perfect freedom from all forms of insatisfactoriness (duhkha / dukkha) and saving every sentient being.

If you want to understand for yourself what you have enlightened to go and study the teachings of the Buddha and the great masters. For instance, Candrakirti's "Four Illusions" (a commentary on Aryadeva's 400 stanzas) is really good for a start and available in English. And it is not too long either. Or if you're more into Zen like stuff I recommend the Surangama Sutra.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2010 at 11:02 PM
Title: Re: where to go to seek confirmation of attainment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
"i am happier talking about No attainment, which seems to be a state entered when the five skhandas have dissolved."

1. Without skandhas there is not even consciousness to realise anything.
2. Skandhas dissolve every moment anyway.
3. Skandhas are already empty as they are, no point in making them empty.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2010 at 6:31 AM
Title: Re: where to go to seek confirmation of attainment?
Content:
Yeshe said:
I disagree. If we are to discuss attainment, then then we should challenge the concept of progressive attainment or progressive revelation.  Hence, the revelation of inherent Buddha Nature is actually at the core, since one needs to accept or refute its revealtion as attainment.

Astus wrote:
All right then. The only possible way to enlightenment is gradual as far as it means the time and effort it takes for a deluded being to reach the level of complete and perfect enlightenment of a buddha. What has been a subject of debate is the matter of method. For there are direct (so called sudden) and indirect (gradual) methods. Indirect means using steps to train a student in morality, meditation and wisdom, like in a school with progressive grades. Obvious example for this approach is the Tibetan lamrim teaching. Direct means introducing the student immediately at the beginning to emptiness. That is what, for instance, they (supposed to) do in Zen. But a common misunderstanding about direct methods is to take the word "sudden" as a term referring to the time it takes to master it. Even those who were enlightened buddhas since their birth (eg. Shakyamuni, Padmasambhava) practised hard for a long time. What to say about ordinary beings then?

The great problem with direct teachings (primarily Zen, Dzogchen and Mahamudra) is that hardly anybody gets it for the first, second, third or hundredth time. And when there are some who actually can use these methods it is simply because of previous lives. Nevertheless, looking at the history of great Zen teachers of the past we find that they were all well educated and trained for decades. Thus even from a down to earth point of view "sudden enlightenment" doesn't happen so suddenly.

"The Dharma is without sudden and gradual; it is people that are clever or dull, therefore the names sudden and gradual." (Platform Sutra, ch. 8)


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2010 at 4:25 AM
Title: Re: where to go to seek confirmation of attainment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
The topic of Buddha-nature is a different one. And in many cases the extreme view of existence.


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2010 at 4:12 AM
Title: Re: The Lankavatara Sutra
Content:
Astus wrote:
Here are two stanzas I've been messing around with. It'd be good if others could contribute here. Also, generally it would be good to discuss Suzuki's translation and how much it reflects different versions of the sutra.

Suzuki's:

In all things there is no self-nature, words too are devoid of reality; as the ignorant understand not what is meant by emptiness, yes, by emptiness, they wander about.
In all things there is no self-nature, they are mere words of people; that which is discriminated has no reality; [even] Nirvana is like a dream; nothing is seen to be in transmigration, nor does anything ever enter into Nirvana.
Lankavatara 2.34

sarvabhāvo'svabhāvo hi sadvacanaṁ tathāpyasat |
śūnyatāśūnyatārthaṁ vā bālo'paśyan vidhāvati || 143 ||
sarvabhāvasvabhāvā ca vacanamapi nṛṇām |
kalpanā sāpi nāsti nirvāṇaṁ svapnatulyam |
bhavaṁ parīkṣeta na saṁsāre nāpi nirvāyāt || 144 ||

(approximate trans. by a friend, English tr. by me)

Certainly every being is without essence, the true speech as well as the false
Not seeing the meaning of the emptiness of emptiness the fool's (mind) becomes confused
And every being's essence is only the words of men, there's not even discrimination
Nirvana is like a dream, doesn't investigate existence in samsara and doesn't get extinguished

(my unprofessional trans. of two different versions)

諸法無自性，亦復無言說；
不見空空義，愚夫故流轉。
一切法無性，離語言分別；
諸有如夢化，非生死涅槃。
T672p600c21-24

Appearances are without essence; words are without it too
Not seeing the meaning of emptiness; thus fools wander
No appearance has essence; leaving speech and discrimination
Everything is like a dream, an illusion; neither samsara, nor nirvana

諸性無自性，亦復無言說，
甚深空空義，愚夫不能了。
一切性自性，言說法如影，
自覺聖智子，實際我所說。
T670p490c17-20

Appearances are without essence; words are without it too
The very deep meaning of emptiness; fools cannot understand
Every being is essence; talking about law(s) is like a shadow
The self-awakening of the children of wisdom; is called the limit of reality


Author: Astus
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2010 at 3:52 AM
Title: Re: where to go to seek confirmation of attainment?
Content:
Astus wrote:
If there's nothing to attain what's the point of the Buddha's teaching? If it is the realisation that there is nothing to attain, actually it is that realisation to attain. If nobody realises it how could it be called an achievement? If it is ending all sorts of attachments there is still the concept of things one could be attached to.

Nagarjuna says, "If nirvana were nothing, how could nirvana possibly be not dependent? There does not exist any nothing which is not dependent." (MMK 25.8)

There are four extreme views:
- something exists
- something doesn't exist
- something exists and doesn't exist
- something neither exists nor doesn't exist

You seem to be stuck at the idea of non-existence, the second extreme view. How to break through? Just understand that this is actually another false concept, nothing more.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2010 at 9:35 PM
Title: Re: Notable Zen Masters
Content:
Astus wrote:
Those not yet mentioned: Yongming, Jinul, Bankei and Daehaeng. They're all fun to read.


Author: Astus
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2010 at 8:58 PM
Title: Re: where to go to seek confirmation of attainment?
Content:
White Lotus said:
thanks, i have a really good teacher, but i have no self, therefore anything that regards attainment is formless, it means nothing to me. i asked this question, because i wanted to be orthodox and if there is any sort of non-attainment, to clarify it. i am told that enlightenment is a certainty with conviction, but i have neither certainty nor doubt. it therefore is logical to say that i am not enlightened.
to be honest i have no conviction, but this could be 'No' Conviction and not convictionless.

Astus wrote:
To have no self is a big issue. Having self and having no self are quite the same, the difference being only in concepts. Until one has something, that is attachment. If one has nothing, that is rejection. Realisation of emptiness lies beyond attachment and rejection. How do you express that?

Ganyo asked Joshu, "What about it when I don't have anything?"
Joshu said, "Throw it away."
Ganyo asked again, "I do not have anything, what is there to throw away?"
Joshu then said, "In that case, take it away with you."
At these words Ganyo was enlightened.


