﻿Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 5th, 2021 at 10:16 PM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:



Queequeg said:
Bringing this back to stupas - they were placed at crossroads and other significant and frequently visited locales precisely to cause the the memory of certain beings to impinge on the minds of passersby.

Malcolm wrote:
There are also guidelines for their placement.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 5th, 2021 at 10:14 PM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Here you go: Gorintō with Lotus Sutra inscriptions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 5th, 2021 at 9:58 AM
Title: Re: An intersubjective experience in Yogacara
Content:
Supramundane said:
I believe Yogacara accepts the concept of the Trikaya. This can be applied to the concept of consciousness; contents of consciousness belong to the nirmanakaya, manifest form; the mindstream belongs to sambhogkaya, energy; and pure awareness, to the dharmakaya.

Malcolm wrote:
The yogatcarins systematized the notion of the three kayas, but they did not frame them in those terms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 4th, 2021 at 9:51 PM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:
Queequeg said:
I didn't realize there was a controversy around building stupas. Honestly, this is the first time I'm encountering such conservative views.

Malcolm wrote:
Stupas are descendent from the royal funerary tumulus. There are canonical requirements surrounding the construction of such memorials. There are many considerations. One of them is consideration for the negative karma earned by those who may ignorantly destroy them. Another is the consideration for constructing them correctly. I am quite sure you can find the proper procedures for constructing such a memorial in Tendai literature. You might consult the peace pagoda folks.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 4th, 2021 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:


Queequeg said:
Sorry, Malcolm. You assume much about my views again. So let's just leave it at this: you wouldn't build a stupa.

Malcolm wrote:
I didn't say that.

I said I would not build a stupa unless I was reasonably certain it would not be desecrated and that I've been advised that building stupas on private property is fraught for that reason.

As for your views, you were the person, I think, who attempted to distinguish yourself as an "ethnic" buddhist as opposed to us "converts." I object to the distinction, since I think it is invalid. You were also the person who brought in the notion of how being raised in family of Buddhists somehow imbued the air with a mysterious aroma that we converts would never know. I merely responded in kind. Most of the ethnic Buddhists I know don't know shit about Buddhism and don't behave like they do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 4th, 2021 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Meeting the Dharma in this life is a function having met the Dharma in a past life. It’s not a genetic thing, nor is it a cultural thing. It’s a karmic thing.

Queequeg said:
Flesh is karma embodied. Or isn't it?

Malcolm wrote:
That is a karma vipaka, so anyone who is a buddhist has that karma vipaka.

Queequeg said:
This should be obvious though - being born into an environment and among others where Buddha dharma is like the air, it leads to a different outlook.

Malcolm wrote:
You are making an argument based on a kind of cultural essentialism. The three poisons are the same everywhere and afflict everyone. The only different about the air in Buddhist countries is the smell of incense, and some of it is horrible.

One cannot convert to Buddhism. The notion of "Conversion" come from viewing things in a one-lifetime paradigm.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 4th, 2021 at 2:28 AM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:


Queequeg said:
You guys are so pessimistic and negative.

Malcolm wrote:
Not really. It is always better to err on the side of caution when embarking on building Buddhist monuments of any kind. I've seen more than one Buddhist community get into protracted legal battles over this stuff, especially when neighbors get wind of things like stupa constructions etc. Hell, your land might not even be zoned to allow such construction. Then, you have install a leach field, etc., get construction permits, etc. And that does not even take into consideration the idea of having your backyard stupa designated a landmark:

https://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1613&context=pelr

For example, there is the famous New Mexico stupa that wound up being on federal land:

https://www.au.org/church-state/november-2012-church-state/people-events/buddhist-shrine-moved-from-national-park-after


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 4th, 2021 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:


Queequeg said:
No offense to you guys but you are converts and so this sense of continuity is not in your flesh.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not in yours either. And we are not “Buddhist converts.” There is no such thing.

Meeting the Dharma in this life is a function having met the Dharma in a past life. It’s not a genetic thing, nor is it a cultural thing. It’s a karmic thing.

Arnoud said:
Since there are family lineages of Tertons, oracles, and ngagpa's and divinators, isn't there something to be said for some genetic, physical component? Especially since practice, in particular Dzogchen, is intimately connected to the body.

Malcolm wrote:
No, that’s just incidental. Karma trumps and determines all such relations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2021 at 11:58 PM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:


Queequeg said:
No offense to you guys but you are converts and so this sense of continuity is not in your flesh.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not in yours either. And we are not “Buddhist converts.” There is no such thing.

Meeting the Dharma in this life is a function having met the Dharma in a past life. It’s not a genetic thing, nor is it a cultural thing. It’s a karmic thing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2021 at 9:55 PM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:



PadmaVonSamba said:
There are specific guidelines for the construction and placement of stupas.

Malcolm wrote:
Then there is selling your house, etc.

Queequeg said:
Lol. I'm the neighbor who doesn't give a shit about property value. And if the next owner want a hot tub, it's their property. But if things go as planned the property will become a temple ground in perpetuity. I'm not quite American in how I view my possessions. It's not all about commerce. It will be a dharma landmark. As Stupas are supposed to be.

Malcolm wrote:
My comment was not directed towards resale value, but making sure the stupa is respected, not demolished, etc., after you sell. Most teachers I know discourage people from building stupas property that might in future be sold to non Buddhists.

Also stupas are not merely dharma landmarks, they represent the mind of the Buddha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2021 at 8:12 PM
Title: Re: An intersubjective experience in Yogacara
Content:
Arnold3000 said:
How can people in Yogacara interact with each other? According to Yogacara, all the objects that I see exist only in my mind.

Malcolm wrote:
Analytically, this is the case, but this is not what we experience conventionally.

Aemilius said:
I don't think it is the case that Yogacara denies the existence of other minds, or other beings. How could there be "perception of water as pus or ambrosia" if there are no sentient beings? (i.e.  perceptions of humans, pretas and gods in Vasubandhu's 20 Verses with Commentary).
Moreover, Lankavatara sutra says that "the winds of objectivity cause the Alaya ocean to stir" (and thus perceptions arise).
(Lankavatara sutra Chapter two, IX verse 100,  transl. of D.T. Suzuki)

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, you are correct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2021 at 10:53 AM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:



PadmaVonSamba said:
There are specific guidelines for the construction and placement of stupas.

Malcolm wrote:
Then there is selling your house, etc.

Hazel said:
How does that fit in?

Malcolm wrote:
What if your buyers are not Buddhists and they decide to demolish your stupa for a hot tub?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2021 at 9:58 AM
Title: Re: An intersubjective experience in Yogacara
Content:



PadmaVonSamba said:
Are you asking:
‘If there is no intrinsically existing self,
then why is there a cause for the senses to arise?’

LastLegend said:
I know what you were asking me earlier: the nature of seeing or hearing as in Sharagama Sutra.

I was asking: why is there an extra ‘guy’ there?

PadmaVonSamba said:
We imagine there is a self because experience seems continuous. For example, we experience an hour rather than experiencing 7,200 half-seconds.
If you experienced 7,200 specifically arising “me” moments, each one produced by the previous one, the experience, the “feel” that there is a ‘self’ would be less likely to occur.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s because our experience of consciousness is principally memory, given that the present moment of consciousness is always nonconceptual and is subsequently processed into a simulacra  of those impressions.  It’s memory that ties those experiences into an identity projection. Our experiences of moments is preconceptual. Moments are also partless. Arising and perishing are simultaneous.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2021 at 7:45 AM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:



Queequeg said:
I plan to build a stupa in my yard. Wondering how big I can go without getting the building inspector on my case.

Malcolm wrote:
Would recommend you don’t.

PadmaVonSamba said:
There are specific guidelines for the construction and placement of stupas.

Malcolm wrote:
Then there is selling your house, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2021 at 7:14 AM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:
Nemo said:
Do you need one for your spiritual development? Probably not.
Are they useful as a support for magical activities like gaining merit, etc? Definitely yes.
95% of the matter and energy in the universe is of unknown composition and origin. Dark matter is a good analogy for the world we inhabit. We can see and interact with 5%. A shrine or shrine room is a scared space that can cross over into those unseen realms. Natural ones exist too.

I'm a big fan of stupas. Damn they can transform a place. Fill them with a few relics and sprinkle on some faith and you will fall in love with them too.

Queequeg said:
I plan to build a stupa in my yard. Wondering how big I can go without getting the building inspector on my case.

Malcolm wrote:
Would recommend you don’t.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2021 at 1:21 AM
Title: Re: Is a shrine important
Content:
Schwarz said:
Hello,

is it important for you to have a shrine at your home? Why or why not?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, you need a place to store all your Dharma kitsch.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 3rd, 2021 at 1:12 AM
Title: Re: An intersubjective experience in Yogacara
Content:


Arnold3000 said:
Vasubandhu describes intersubjectivity in Yogacara as the direct influence of the mind on the mind.
Does my mind directly interact with your mind?

Malcolm wrote:
The traces in your mind can produce appearances in the minds of others and vice versa. The classic example given for this is the women who meditated upon herself as a tiger, and terrified everyone in a village.

Queequeg said:
What is the sense organ capable of making contact with the dharmas in another's mind? Is this the mind as the sixth consciousness? The seventh? Is this the capacity that when developed allows beings to know the thoughts of others?

Malcolm wrote:
The mano-dhātu.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2021 at 11:07 PM
Title: Re: An intersubjective experience in Yogacara
Content:
Arnold3000 said:
How can people in Yogacara interact with each other? According to Yogacara, all the objects that I see exist only in my mind.

Malcolm wrote:
Analytically, this is the case, but this is not what we experience conventionally.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2021 at 11:06 PM
Title: Re: An intersubjective experience in Yogacara
Content:
LastLegend said:
It’s not simply a matter of perception. How do we know an object (example:sound)?

Arnold3000 said:
Vasubandhu describes intersubjectivity in Yogacara as the direct influence of the mind on the mind.
Does my mind directly interact with your mind?

Malcolm wrote:
The traces in your mind can produce appearances in the minds of others and vice versa. The classic example given for this is the women who meditated upon herself as a tiger, and terrified everyone in a village.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2021 at 3:45 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
kirtu said:
Outside of labeling the Biden Infrastructure plan as a failure...

Malcolm wrote:
Anything as ambitious as the BIP will undoubtedly fail in some areas and be successful in others.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2021 at 2:59 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
kirtu said:
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/03/31/critics-warn-biden-infrastructure-plan-falls-woefully-short-climate-crisis, Common Dreams
"Biden has pledged to cut carbon emissions 50% and decarbonize our electricity sector, but this proposal won't even come close."
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zahrahirji/biden-infrastructure-plan-green-new-deal, BuzzFeed News
“I think it’s a step towards our vision of a Green New Deal,” an activist from the Sunrise Movement said. They just think it falls far short.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, America is filled with Joe Manchins everywhere.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2021 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: Senior Buddhist Monks Urge Military Junta to End Violence in Myanmar
Content:


Brunelleschi said:
Know that neither liberals, leftist or conservatives/evangelicals give a damn about Asian Buddhism...

Malcolm wrote:
Why should anyone other than Buddhists give a damn about Buddhism in Asia?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2021 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:



Queequeg said:
Democrats are finally doing what people have been telling them to do and complain when its wrapped in an American flag. We need to claim that flag back.

Malcolm wrote:
No, we need to convince the people that economic internationalism is and has been the correct path forward for the future of our planet. But, baby steps.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2021 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
kirtu said:
https://newrepublic.com/article/161878/biden-worried-deficit-not-worried-enough-climate-change, TNR
His infrastructure plan was supposed to be his big shot at climate legislation. It’s not nearly enough.

To meet the emissions targets outlined in the Paris Agreement, experts estimate the United States government will need to spend at least $1 trillion annually, or between 3 to 5 percent of GDP, for a decade. President Biden’s infrastructure plan, unveiled Wednesday amid much fanfare about its climate commitments, doesn’t come close.

Malcolm wrote:
The real fault of this plan is that it is being couched in language of economic nationalism (think Steven Bannon):
Bizarrely, the opening salvo of the White House’s 12,000-word fact sheet on the plan framed it as a response to “the great challenges of our time: the climate crisis and the ambitions of an autocratic China.” While numerous experts have pointed out the urgent need for collaboration with China on climate change, Biden ended his speech on a grand Bush-era note, casting the U.S. as a democratic bastion trapped in an epic battle against foreign autocrats.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2021 at 12:24 AM
Title: Re: How can one be happy?
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
Happiness in the face of adversity is the kind of happiness is what I am looking for, and also how to overcome adversity and be happy. And also how to make others happy.

I know this is a deep subject. The Dalai Lama has written books on it. I want an Awakened Happiness in my life, so if someone could point me to the Path of how to practice in a Happy Way, I would be content and happy to hear your words.

Malcolm wrote:
Just to add to this, Shantideva's Bodhicaryāvatara is the best manual in existence on how to turn adversity into happiness, how to overcome adversity, and  how to make others happy. It is the #1 instruction manual for aspiring bodhisattvas. Then of course there is the Mind Training tradition of the Kadampas, like the Seven Points of Mind Training by Guru Chekawa, etc. Simply put, in Parting From the Four Attachments, it is said:

If there is attachment to this life, one is not a Dharma practitioner. 
If there is attachment to samsara, one has no renunciation. 
If there is attachment to one's own benefit, one does not have bodhicitta. 
If grasping arises, one does not have the view.

Könchok Thrinley said:
Recently I have been thinking about the lojong texts and which one to use for study and practice. Is there one of these texts you find especially pithy/useful for practitioners nowadays?


Malcolm wrote:
There is the Eight Line Mind Training, the Seven Points, the Wheel of Sharp Weapons, Transforming Suffering into Happiness, etc. It is worth reviewing them all. But in essence, they all boil down to exchanging self and other. Sapan Points out that the root of Dharma is exchanging oneself with others. This is the real basis of Mahāyāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2021 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Kim O'Hara said:
As a matter of tactics, everyone on the green/left side should be cheering Biden's plan unanimously and enthusiastically because (1) it is about a million times better than anything proposed in the last four - maybe fourteen - years and (2) if any of us condemn it, everyone on the right will be encouraged to oppose it even more than they already are.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is true.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 2nd, 2021 at 12:03 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://navdanyainternational.org/bill-gates-his-fake-solutions-to-climate-change/

But its only tangentially about BIll Gates...

Unknown said:
Fake food investors and advocates fail to see how the real problems lie in the industrial agriculture model, rather than in meat production alone. Pointing toward the need to implement agroecological practices and agricultural diversity[60] to ensure a healthier environment and food sovereignty on a global scale.

Fake food is a fake solution, that aims to replace meat without challenging the profit-driven capitalist food and farming industry. This mindset explains why we will soon see Beyond Meat burgers in McDonald’s plant-based menus[61] when we should instead focus on the necessity for real regenerative agriculture and systemic change to protect nature and people’s health.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: How can one be happy?
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
Happiness in the face of adversity is the kind of happiness is what I am looking for, and also how to overcome adversity and be happy. And also how to make others happy.

I know this is a deep subject. The Dalai Lama has written books on it. I want an Awakened Happiness in my life, so if someone could point me to the Path of how to practice in a Happy Way, I would be content and happy to hear your words.

Malcolm wrote:
Just to add to this, Shantideva's Bodhicaryāvatara is the best manual in existence on how to turn adversity into happiness, how to overcome adversity, and  how to make others happy. It is the #1 instruction manual for aspiring bodhisattvas. Then of course there is the Mind Training tradition of the Kadampas, like the Seven Points of Mind Training by Guru Chekawa, etc. Simply put, in Parting From the Four Attachments, it is said:

If there is attachment to this life, one is not a Dharma practitioner. 
If there is attachment to samsara, one has no renunciation. 
If there is attachment to one's own benefit, one does not have bodhicitta. 
If grasping arises, one does not have the view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 11:18 PM
Title: Re: How can one be happy?
Content:


Könchok Chödrak said:
I am looking for advice on how to be happy.

Malcolm wrote:
Śantideva says:

All happiness in the the world
arises from wishing for the happiness of others. 
All suffering in the world
arises from wishing for the happiness of oneself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 10:26 PM
Title: Re: Where to put remainders of tsok offering?
Content:
jewel123 said:
Hello! I was wondering where would be the most appropriate place to leave the remainders of tsok offering? I am very concerned about being misinterpreted as "polluting" or "littering" a place if someone sees me leaving the tsok offering outside. Thank you.

Malcolm wrote:
One needs to place the food in a clean place, preferably high.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 10:25 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
Queequeg said:
In the old days, they'd get their heads bashed in by an angry mob.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no, they'd hire Pinkertons, and the latter would do most of the head-bashing


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 10:37 AM
Title: Re: Hearing vs Listening for receiving transmission (lung)
Content:


Danny said:
I’m more interested in why girls want
To be hooters waitress than dharma practitioners.

Malcolm wrote:
Generally they don’t even know they have a choice.



Mod note 2024: The topic is being locked, becaus it has been necroed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 10:36 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Tell that the countless chickens whose feathers get processed into feather meal for fertilizing organic fields.

jimmi said:
This is an outcome of a very efficient industry. None of those chickens were killed for their feathers.

Malcolm wrote:
That doesn’t matter, just as it doesn’t matter that the small insects killed in grain production to feed  those chickens were not meant to be eaten either.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 5:54 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
seeker242 said:
There is plenty of data and evidence that shows rice is less harmful than meat. Simply because you refuse to acknowledge it, doesn't mean there isn't any.

Malcolm wrote:
Tell that the countless chickens whose feathers get processed into feather meal for fertilizing organic fields.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: Hearing vs Listening for receiving transmission (lung)
Content:
karmanyingpo said:
Howdy to all Dharma friends.

Wondering if anyone can shed some light, on what necessary conditions need to be there to receive a lung, with sources/ref to teachers/scripture if possible or applicable..

I ask because it seems I have heard conflicting things. Some seem to say that all you need is to HEAR it even if you are distracted or doing other things (eg stories of monks practicing caligraphy while getting transmission) and others seem to say you need to LISTEN undistractedly to receive it. I'm sure that attentavely mindfully listening does not hurt but, is it really necessary to receive the lung at all? Is there any real basis for arguing one side over the other?

Malcolm wrote:
It is better if you are paying attention, but in the case of a long lung, that is a little difficult.

karmanyingpo said:
Thanks Acharya la. So it seems bottom line is, more attention/listening is good but not absolutely necessary to receive a transmission. Is that correct?

KN

Malcolm wrote:
Correct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 5:16 AM
Title: Re: Senior Buddhist Monks Urge Military Junta to End Violence in Myanmar
Content:
Brunelleschi said:
In these cases Buddhist and Hindus have been on the receiving end.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and Muslims were also driven out of India...into Pakistan and Bangladesh. Buddhism is not really your classic victimized religion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 5:07 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Most water pollution comes from human sewage and sources other than water runoff from farms. Water usage will increase, not decrease, under more intensive farming of fruit and nut trees.

seeker242 said:
Most water pollution does not come from human sewage and other non agricultural sources. Water usage will not increase if fruit trees replaced cattle farms.

Malcolm wrote:
As to point one: yes, this this a fact. As for two, yes, it will.


seeker242 said:
The biggest thing that injures biodiversity is farming,
And animal farming is the most destructive type of farming.

Malcolm wrote:
No. It doesn't matter the reason crops are planted. But in fact more land is deforested for crops than for beef.


seeker242 said:
followed by housing construction. That's not going away, instead, it will be expanded. Why? Nuts are essential for oils, protein, etc. Without butter or animal fats to cook with, we will need to plant millions of more acres of rape seed, etc. Biofuels are already an environmental disaster, with forests being cut down to plant trees for palm oil, etc.
Incorrect, farming would not be expanded. More forest has been destroyed for beef farming than it has for palm oil farming.

Malcolm wrote:
Most definitely it will. https://phys.org/news/2017-06-palm-oil-responsible-global-deforestation.html

seeker242 said:
Agriculture is therefore the leading cause of global deforestation, with 24% of the land used for livestock and 29% for crops. The report provides some details of the 29% chunk of deforestation due to agricultural crops, highlighting the crops with the highest contributions – soybean (19%), maize (11%), oil palm (8% %), rice (6%) and sugarcane (5%).
Yes, they is what they claim based on assumptions they've made in their modeling. I am sure their forecasts are quite accurate as far as their assumptions go. But, since there is going to be no en masse conversion to a plant-based diet, their assumptions don't match the real world.
It doesn't need to match the real world in order to demonstrate that taking that action causes less harm.

Malcolm wrote:
You argument is entirely pyrrhic. You are arguing for a set of conditions that will never exist.



seeker242 said:
Since you live in a world where our economy is oil-based, etc., not even you can argue that your dietary choices are "less" harming. You imagine they are, but only because you have created this artificial island in your head, meat/plant. You live in this world. I encourage you seek attainable goals. Not unattainable ones.
My dietary choices are less harming. You imagine they aren't, because you're not well informed on the topic.

Malcolm wrote:
They aren't, because you cannot separate one part of the world economy from another, unless of course you are entirely self-sufficient in your food sources. But if you aren't, you are eating food fertilized with either chemical or organic fertilizer and so on, for example, rice. So, not less harm. The same. You cannot argue on the one hand that vegetarian food fertilized with organic fertilizer is more virtuous than eating a steak. In both cases animal products are used. In both cases, the process involves the suffering of millions of creatures we cannot even estimate.

You simply have no data that shows that more sentient beings are harmed in meat production than would be the case if no meat or dairy was ever used again. This is an assumption you believe, but you have no actual evidence to support this assumption.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 4:12 AM
Title: Re: Hearing vs Listening for receiving transmission (lung)
Content:
karmanyingpo said:
Howdy to all Dharma friends.

Wondering if anyone can shed some light, on what necessary conditions need to be there to receive a lung, with sources/ref to teachers/scripture if possible or applicable..

I ask because it seems I have heard conflicting things. Some seem to say that all you need is to HEAR it even if you are distracted or doing other things (eg stories of monks practicing caligraphy while getting transmission) and others seem to say you need to LISTEN undistractedly to receive it. I'm sure that attentavely mindfully listening does not hurt but, is it really necessary to receive the lung at all? Is there any real basis for arguing one side over the other?

Malcolm wrote:
It is better if you are paying attention, but in the case of a long lung, that is a little difficult.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 4:10 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


seeker242 said:
What people will or won’t do is not relevant to the question of which diet causes more or less harm. Even if everyone were to do absolutely nothing, that still wouldn’t change the fact that a plant-based diet causes less climate harm.

Malcolm wrote:
Your criteria has been harm through death to creatures. Now you've roped in the climate.

seeker242 said:
Absolutely. What do you think? Climate change doesn't harm creatures? Of course it does... And we also need to rope in water pollution and all the harm from that, excess water usage and all the harm from that, excess land usage and all the harm from that, deforestation and all the harm from that, desertification and all the harm from that, loss of biodiversity and all the harm from that. I'm sure I'm not including everything there.

Malcolm wrote:
Most water pollution comes from human sewage and sources other than water runoff from farms. Water usage will increase, not decrease, under more intensive farming of fruit and nut trees.

The biggest thing that injures biodiversity is farming, followed by housing construction. That's not going away, instead, it will be expanded. Why? Nuts are essential for oils, protein, etc. Without butter or animal fats to cook with, we will need to plant millions of more acres of rape seed, etc. Biofuels are already an environmental disaster, with forests being cut down to plant trees for palm oil, etc.

seeker242 said:
And there are boatloads of evidence that a plant based diet would help alleviate the problems with all of those things, published in peer reviewed science journals from people who have PhDs in those respective fields.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, they is what they claim based on assumptions they've made in their modeling. I am sure their forecasts are quite accurate as far as their assumptions go. But, since there is going to be no en masse conversion to a plant-based diet, their assumptions don't match the real world. Since their assumptions do not match the real world, your assertion that there will be less harm with such a conversion is just a speculative fantasy. It can't be tested.

Since you live in a world where our economy is oil-based, etc., not even you can argue that your dietary choices are "less" harming. You imagine they are, but only because you have created this artificial island in your head, meat/plant. You live in this world. I encourage you seek attainable goals. Not unattainable ones.

seeker242 said:
But, you expect people to take your word for it instead? When they are saying the opposite thing that you are saying? Sorry friend, but that's just not reasonable. Not really even close. And you think they just didn't account for any of that other stuff you mentioned? Well, that's not reasonable either.

Malcolm wrote:
They are models describing a world that does not exist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 2:01 AM
Title: Re: merigar gompa
Content:


ismael said:
Besides that, a 19th century Christian saint and mystic, Davide Lazaretti, lived in the rugged mountains above Merigar ( his place can still be visited )

Malcolm wrote:
Lazretti's house, restored and renovated, is for sale.

Arnoud said:
Would love to see that. Where can I find the listing?

Malcolm wrote:
saw it on facebook


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 1:56 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


seeker242 said:
What people will or won’t do is not relevant to the question of which diet causes more or less harm. Even if everyone were to do absolutely nothing, that still wouldn’t change the fact that a plant-based diet causes less climate harm.

Malcolm wrote:
Your criteria has been harm through death to creatures. Now you've roped in the climate.

As for your first criteria, there is no evidence less creatures are harmed, since there is no evidence one way or another.

There is no evidence that less pesticides and herbicides or other pest-management solutions will be used if we switched, world wide, to an all plant-based diet.

We will have to rely on more chemical-based fertilizers in the significant absence of animal by-product fertilizer. Water pollution from nitrogen runoff will be the same, as well as chemical pollution.

Then there is the transition period of twenty years where we either support an aging population of domesticated animals until they die a natural death—or kill them all—and prevent their birth, since they will no longer be useful to human beings.

The rate of air pollution from farm vehicles will remain the same for the foreseeable future.

The recommendation to switch to all plant-based diet seems great on the surface, but it itself comes with all kinds of unimagined consequences. Same number of creatures will be killed, or even more, since there will have to be a great increase in planting of nut trees and fruit trees (water intensive, prone to disease and pests, requiring lots of pesticides), etc. One cannot simply declare that one can determine the amount of harm to creatures based on computer models which track carbon.

This is why I continue to suggest that there are other areas where we can make more substantial improvements in terms of harmful human behavior than in the area of diet. People are promoting dietary choice as an area where people feel personally empowered in doing something. On the other hand, just look at the frenzy caused recently in France when the Mayor of Lyon eliminated meat from school lunches. Many people, most people, feel that eliminating meat is harmful to human health. I am not debating that issue, some people seem to do fine on vegan and vegetarian diets, some people do not, nevertheless, the general view of most people in the world is that eating meat is desirable.

Frankly, there are many ways of reducing harm, diet evangelism seems among the most quixotic, and thus, not very effective in accomplishing its stated goals.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 1:13 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


muni said:
His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama is encouraging his followers around the globe to adopt a vegetarian diet in an effort to alleviate suffering on World Animal Day, which took place this past Sunday, October 4th. In a recorded message, the Buddhist leader said, "It is very useful to promote vegetarianism. We should pay more attention towards developing more vegetable [-based diets]," adding that factory farming is "environmentally very harmful. "

Malcolm wrote:
With all due respect to His Holiness, switching to a vegetarian diet will not get rid of "factory farming."

muni said:
It is indirectly related, even that alone will not solve it. I am sure H H Dalai Lama knows that, it is not that easy. However when there is no demander, or less, they need to reduce as well. Now too many animals are pushed in tiny places, like pigs, just enough room to deliver babies. Their tale is cut off, since due to stress they eat each others. Its just unbelievable when we come to see how these beings are suffering.

Malcolm wrote:
Factory farming is not just for animals. That's the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 12:45 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


muni said:
His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama is encouraging his followers around the globe to adopt a vegetarian diet in an effort to alleviate suffering on World Animal Day, which took place this past Sunday, October 4th. In a recorded message, the Buddhist leader said, "It is very useful to promote vegetarianism. We should pay more attention towards developing more vegetable [-based diets]," adding that factory farming is "environmentally very harmful. "

Malcolm wrote:
With all due respect to His Holiness, switching to a vegetarian diet will not get rid of "factory farming."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 1st, 2021 at 12:32 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:



seeker242 said:
Which is irrelevant to whether or not something does or doesn't cause more or less harm.

Malcolm wrote:
If you want to reduce harm, look at the major causes of harm to the environment, and it is not agriculture as a sector (10% of total greenhouse gas emissions from the US, according to the EPA). It is transportation, electricity, and industry.



seeker242 said:
The idea that you can just ignore food is a mistaken idea.

Malcolm wrote:
The idea that you are going to change the dietary habits of 95 percent of humanity is equally mistaken. So, I recommend you work with what people will accept, not what they won't. That is the best way to reduce harm to the environment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: merigar gompa
Content:


ismael said:
Besides that, a 19th century Christian saint and mystic, Davide Lazaretti, lived in the rugged mountains above Merigar ( his place can still be visited )

Malcolm wrote:
Lazretti's house, restored and renovated, is for sale.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 11:09 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
seeker242 said:
Is it just a coincidence that vegan comes in last place, in causing climate harm, in virtually every single country studied? Hmmm.

Malcolm wrote:
There are no innocents, not even vegans.

seeker242 said:
Which is irrelevant to whether or not something does or doesn't cause more or less harm.

Malcolm wrote:
If you want to reduce harm, look at the major causes of harm to the environment, and it is not agriculture as a sector (10% of total greenhouse gas emissions from the US, according to the EPA). It is transportation, electricity, and industry.



With respect to the major causes of water pollution they are non-agricultural effluents: human sewage (30%) is the leading source; followed by farm run off and air pollution (both 20%); then maritime transportation, waste water from industry, oil, and litter. Of course these vary depending on water basin. For example, the Mississippi is mainly polluted by farm runoff; the Thames, the Colorado, and Connecticut river, human sewage, etc.

Decoupling our economy from the burning of fossil fuels will automatically cause a serious drop in harm. This is where people should be focusing their attention. Not on diets.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 10:04 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
seeker242 said:
Is it just a coincidence that vegan comes in last place, in causing climate harm, in virtually every single country studied? Hmmm.

Malcolm wrote:
There are no innocents, not even vegans.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 7:50 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Human meat is forbidden in Vinaya.

Arnoud said:
Why do these rules from the Vinaya apply to lay people and not the other rules?

Malcolm wrote:
They don’t, necessarily, but one can consult them as a guide.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 10:05 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
The most ethical thing to do would to be a vegan cannibal and only eat other humans who are not vegans.

Malcolm wrote:
Human meat is also forbidden in Vinaya.

jimmi said:
What if someone just put it on your plate? It’s said to taste like chicken.

Malcolm wrote:
Human meat is forbidden in Vinaya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 9:56 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
If you can’t eat a predominately plant-based diet, the next best thing is to only consume meat from animals who rely on a predominantly plant-based diet.

Malcolm wrote:
Eating the flesh of predators is forbidden in Vinaya, in fact.

PadmaVonSamba said:
The most ethical thing to do would to be a vegan cannibal and only eat other humans who are not vegans.

Malcolm wrote:
Human meat is also forbidden in Vinaya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 7:43 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
seeker242 said:
The most important is for individuals to shift towards predominantly plant-based diets.

Malcolm wrote:
First world arrogance, expecting others to take responsibility for our cultural excesses.

PadmaVonSamba said:
If you can’t eat a predominately plant-based diet, the next best thing is to only consume meat from animals who rely on a predominantly plant-based diet.

Malcolm wrote:
Eating the flesh of predators is forbidden in Vinaya, in fact.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 7:07 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


seeker242 said:
The most important is for individuals to shift towards predominantly plant-based diets.

Malcolm wrote:
First world arrogance, expecting others to take responsibility for our cultural excesses.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 5:00 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
There are many uncompassionate people in the world. And many more who engage in systems that are inherently uncompassionate without realizing it.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, there are many uncompassionate buddhist vegetarians as well. I've met many.

SilenceMonkey said:
If it’s true that a tantrika can liberate an animal by eating its flesh, or even to create a powerful connection of dharma for this being, there is some real compassion there.

Malcolm wrote:
I did stipulate that one needs connection with a method.

SilenceMonkey said:
But for all the rest of the meat eaters, there’s no compassion there.

Malcolm wrote:
And not necessarily malice either. For example, most people eat meat. Are you claiming that most people are not compassionate? That 95 percent of the world is somehow lacking compassion? You need to get out more.

SilenceMonkey said:
And the Dalai Lama was vegetarian for most of his life. He only eats meat occasionally because it was prescribed by his doctors due to a case of jaundice.

Malcolm wrote:
This is completely false. HHDL has not been vegetarian most of his life. Quite the opposite, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 2:27 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
There’s no hypocrisy in people being veg merely because they live in the first world.

Malcolm wrote:
There is, when they imagine that somehow their diet of choice makes them spiritually superior to others.

Veganism is a luxury diet (and unhealthy too) for wealthy people in first world countries that has zero impact on industrial agriculture, the meat industry, etc.

https://veganbits.com/vegan-demographics/

SilenceMonkey said:
Calculating the amount of vegans in the world has never been an easy task. Many people combine vegans, vegetarians, and plant-based diets into the same category – even though there is a major difference. Considering that the most progressive countries in the world are reporting a 2-8% vegan population, we can assume that the worldwide number is considerably below 1%.

For example, even though there has been a large surge in vegan interest in South Africa, 99.99% of Africa’s population aren’t vegans. Considering that there are 1.2 billion people living in Africa, and 7.53 billion people living worldwide, it’s easy to understand why the vegan population worldwide is closer to 0.1%.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
The real purpose behind vegetarianism and veganism isn’t about feeling superior, it’s about compassion for the animals.

Malcolm wrote:
So is meat-eating with a proper method. Otherwise, it neutral, unless you personally engaged in killing animals for food.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
This sounds like the opposite of how HH Dalai Lama says to cultivate compassion and bodhicitta. You seem to be saying that because no being chooses to live, it doesn’t matter if they die.

Malcolm wrote:
I was specifically responding to the assertion by jimmi that eating meat deprives sentient beings of the choice of live.

SilenceMonkey said:
But that’s not bodhicitta. Bodhicitta is recognizing that all beings want happiness and to avoid suffering, and then feeling compassion for their suffering enough to want them to be free.

Malcolm wrote:
You do that by avoiding meat, and I do that by consuming meat, in addition to making sure those animals didn't die for nothing.

Face it, 95 percent of people in the world not only eat meat, but they want to eat meat.

You can either avoid meat, or you can eat meat with compassion. It's up to you. But don't try to tell me being a vegetarian or a vegan is more compassionate. It isn't, and I see zero evidence that vegans and vegetarians are qualitatively more compassionate than those who eat meat. His Holiness the Dalai Lama eats meat, for example.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 1:06 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
Awesome for people who have the time and resources, almost completely irrelevant for those who do not.

Sunrise said:
Most of us agree that Big Agriculture is having a very destructive effect on animal welfare, human workers, and the environment. The question is how to stand against it. Different methods will appeal to different people, but the important thing is to do something. There's the very real danger that people will look at the size of Big Ag, and conclude there's nothing that they can do about it. That they're powerless consumers forced to support this evil system. This isn't true, but if we don't take active steps against it, it will feel that way.

Malcolm wrote:
Most people in the world do not enjoy the luxury of food choices available to us in the first world.

Most of the 7.5 billion people on the planet are just struggling to get by.

Transforming the global food production network to be more efficient and less polluting requires a level of international cooperation that necessitates a level of maturity humanity has not reached.

There are, at most, 400 million vegetarians in the world. Take India, only slightly more than a third of the population is vegetarian.

Basically, the world is only 5% vegetarian. Seems unlikely this is going to change.

Meat eating map:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-47057341

Fact: the wealthier people become, the more meat they eat. One can either eat meat with compassion, or hold one's nose and pretend to be superior to everyone else.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 at 12:15 AM
Title: Re: Thangka painting - what requires empowerment?
Content:
heart said:
You don't need an empowerment for thangka painting...

Malcolm wrote:
Not exactly true. Ideally, a thangkha painter will be part of the tradition.

Hazel said:
What's the risk of negative karma?

Malcolm wrote:
If one is painting lower tantras deities like Tara, the Buddha, Arhats, etc. there is no fault. But if someone is painting higher tantras deities without empowerment, there is a fault.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 30th, 2021 at 10:31 PM
Title: Re: Thangka painting - what requires empowerment?
Content:
heart said:
You don't need an empowerment for thangka painting...

Malcolm wrote:
Not exactly true. Ideally, a thangkha painter will be part of the tradition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 30th, 2021 at 10:25 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:



PadmaVonSamba said:
2. Killing animals is a violation of one of the five precepts.

Malcolm wrote:
That is in fact unclear. For example, it is not a defeat for a bhikṣu to kill an animal, and requires no more than a confession before the sangha, the same as drinking alcohol or harming a plant.

PadmaVonSamba said:
If you have taken the five precepts, you cannot, for example, select a live lobster to be cooked for you. But if you are served meat, it is not a violation to eat it. The specific act of killing is the point here.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because this violates the "pure in three ways" rule

PadmaVonSamba said:
3. This is really the grey area. If one buys meat, this perpetuates the market for meat

Malcolm wrote:
This has been addressed many times. Buying any food at all from a store that sells meat, like Whole Foods, contributes to that economy, vegan or not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 30th, 2021 at 9:10 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:



jimmi said:
This sounds like a requirement. By what logic or perception is eating meat compassionate?

Those who wish to minimize the collateral damage to sentient beings of meat production and consumption and indeed of any land based diet (as you suggest), while still fulfilling their compassionate obligations, may perhaps consider the possibility of exclusively eating large marine mammals.

Malcolm wrote:
Compassion isn’t an obligation, it’s a choice.

jimmi said:
What kind of compassionate choice is it then that would allow one to directly, or through intermediaries, deprive another of its own choice to live?

Malcolm wrote:
No sentient being chooses to live. The process of life is driven by ignorance. Sentient beings are conceived through ignorance, etc.

Everything boils down to motivation and method. If one has bodhicitta and the correct method, eating meat becomes a compassionate act.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 29th, 2021 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
Frankly, with chicken meat being as cheap as it is at the stores, and the incredible investment chicken farmers have to make, I don’t see how there is any money on it. But I guess there is.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s subsidized by the Feds.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 29th, 2021 at 5:27 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
Um... the article you shared actually proves the opposite of what you're claiming.

Malcolm wrote:
No,it does not.


SilenceMonkey said:
And you don't even address the main point behind the claim that animal agriculture kills more animals than plant agriculture, which is that you have to feed the cows. So whatever harm that comes from plant agriculture is multiplied in the case of raising animals for meat, because you have to feed the animals plants.

Malcolm wrote:
Overall land use decreases, the area of _cultivated_land increases by double. Since the overall cultivated land use nearly doubles, pesticide and herbicide use will increase exponentially as well, as well as the need to substitute human waste for animal-dung based flail amendments.

Large scale farming is not possible without pesticides, and there isn’t enough guano in world to make it possible to substitute for other kinds of nonchemical fertilizer if those are eliminated.

SilenceMonkey said:
That doesn't make sense. If all the land that was being used to grow feed for the cows and pigs didn't need to be used for that purpose, it could be used to grow food for people. That's not an increase in land use, but the opposite.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not as much land as you imagine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 29th, 2021 at 1:26 AM
Title: Re: Yet another Buddhism Soul/Self/Anatta thread
Content:



PadmaVonSamba said:
As HH Dalai Lama has frequently mentioned, emptiness itself isn’t a thing. It is a description of the nature of phenomena.
So, this is like asking what is the basis for “large”.

Malcolm wrote:
The basis for large is small.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Yeah, but the point is, it’s an adjective. Sunyata functions that way too. As HHDL says in The Essence of the Heart Sutra, we can only talk about the emptiness of things. There’s no “thing” which is emptiness.

Malcolm wrote:
I guess my humor is too dry.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 29th, 2021 at 1:24 AM
Title: Re: Guru Rinpoche devotional practices
Content:
philji said:
Controversial doesn't have to mean wrong. Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche was also considered controversial. If you have trust in Garchen Rinpoche go for it.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, controversial does not mean wrong. It means controversial. It means that there are doubts.

The purpose of pointing this out is that people need to know, if they have many teachers, that some of their teachers very likely will not accept the point of view that Garchen Rinpoche, a perfectly lovely and compassionate bodhisattva, is promulgating. The point is not to find fault with Garchen Rinpoche. The point that people should be aware that most lamas will not accept recorded empowerments as valid. That's just a fact, and people should be aware of this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 29th, 2021 at 1:19 AM
Title: Re: Guru Rinpoche devotional practices
Content:



Soma999 said:
The Sambhogakāya form of the lama transmits the initiations, and is not bounded by space and time.

Malcolm wrote:
The student is bound by space and time. Not only that, but the creation and dissolution of the mandala for any given initiation is bound by space and time.

Soma999 said:
The initiation is transmitted in consciousness.

Malcolm wrote:
No, an initiation is transmitted through body and speech. The idea an initiation is transmitted mind to mind is just a fantasy and is not supported on the basis of any Buddhist tantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 29th, 2021 at 1:16 AM
Title: Re: Ox Herding
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
I wasn’t commenting on the respective merits of this or that tradition, per se, merely pointing out the manner in which the two depictions are explained are not commensurate with one another.

One assumes from the outset that all Buddhist traditions lead to awakening since they are all based on the same insights into reality.

Russian said:
It is clear that you have voiced the opinions of the traditions, and what is your personal opinion? How do you rate Zen yourself? What do you think of Zen?

Malcolm wrote:
I don't have any basis to have an informed opinion about Zen, other than the way Chan is presented in Tibetan sources, some favorable, most not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 29th, 2021 at 1:11 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


DNS said:
The cows are continually impregnated and then when she gives birth, the calves are taken away.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, and then raised for veal or beef.

DNS said:
You can see the mother cow wailing and crying as her calves are taken away.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct.

DNS said:
And then for the "free range" hens, they still get de-beaked, where their beaks are clipped off without anesthesia.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, which is why one should only buy eggs produced by pastured chickens.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 29th, 2021 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
seeker242 said:
I doubt very much that the cows would be ok with being killed, simply because they are not eaten alive. The idea that purchasing that meat, is somehow entirely divorced from its production, is certainly naive.

Malcolm wrote:
Its pretty clear that purchasing meat is entirely divorced from its production, considering how much meat is wasted per day in the US, 31% of it, 141 billion tons per year or 364,383,561 pounds a day, to be precise. Basically, for every two pounds of meat sold in the US, one pound is "wasted."

https://www.beefmagazine.com/management/food-waste-issue-we-must-solve

Of course this ignores that fact that nothing is ever wasted in a biological system, and all that "wasted" meat rots and is eaten by all kinds of lifeforms. Life survives on death.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 11:30 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
seeker242 said:
Doesn’t take a genius to figure out that a reduction of land use, a reduction of water pollution, a reduction of water use, a reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, a reduction of animal slaughtering, would cause less harm.

The idea that it doesn’t matter what we do it’s all the same, is really quite ridiculous.

And eating meat is compassionate? I wonder what the animals that are being killed because of it would have to say about that? It shouldn’t take a genius to figure that out either

Malcolm wrote:
One does not eat live animals, and eating corpses never caused suffering to anyone ever. Corpses don’t have feelings.

I did not say it does not matter what we do. There are sound reasons to criticize industrial agriculture, but claiming that shifting to an all plant food chain will reduce the suffering of sentient beings is, in my opinion, naive.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: Ox Herding
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
I mean the entire depiction, the final stages at the top represent the miraculous powers that arise from samadhi, but not insight.

Russian said:
And in your opinion, does Zen Buddhism lead to liberation, or not? Does this tradition of Buddhism lead to a goal, does it fulfill a soteriological function, or not?

Malcolm wrote:
I wasn’t commenting on the respective merits of this or that tradition, per se, merely pointing out the manner in which the two depictions are explained are not commensurate with one another.

One assumes from the outset that all Buddhist traditions lead to awakening since they are all based on the same insights into reality.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: Yet another Buddhism Soul/Self/Anatta thread
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
Then what is the basis for Emptiness?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no basis at all. That’s what “emptiness” means.

PadmaVonSamba said:
As HH Dalai Lama has frequently mentioned, emptiness itself isn’t a thing. It is a description of the nature of phenomena.
So, this is like asking what is the basis for “large”.

Malcolm wrote:
The basis for large is small.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: Ox Herding
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
While the images and sequence are similar, the meanings is dissimilar. In the Tibetan tradition, this is merely an illustration of perfect shamatha.

Russian said:
You mean the picture of the elephant and the monkey? Why I ask, because you are responding to my previous message, where I mention the name of the Zen book, the book of the Zen mentor.

Malcolm wrote:
I mean the entire depiction, the final stages at the top represent the miraculous powers that arise from samadhi, but not insight.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The tantras also say, “Those with compassion eat meat.”

jimmi said:
This sounds like a requirement. By what logic or perception is eating meat compassionate?

Those who wish to minimize the collateral damage to sentient beings of meat production and consumption and indeed of any land based diet (as you suggest), while still fulfilling their compassionate obligations, may perhaps consider the possibility of exclusively eating large marine mammals.

Malcolm wrote:
Compassion isn’t an obligation, it’s a choice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 10:36 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


seeker242 said:
This is just a omni talking point which is not backed up by any real data. It's a talking point based on assumptions, not facts and just plain wrong

Malcolm wrote:
All the evidence presented so far is conjectural, and based on assumptions, that goes for yours and mine.

And we draw different conclusions from that those assumptions. Your assumptions lead you to believe that in general, less sentient beings will be harmed if the world went vegan. I think this is fanciful.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: Ox Herding
Content:
LastLegend said:
No dream though. Dream is delusion.

Russian said:
There's a book that explains it. The book is called: Riding the Ox Home : Stages on the Path of Enlightenment. Author: John Daido Loori.

Malcolm wrote:
While the images and sequence are similar, the meanings is dissimilar. In the Tibetan tradition, this is merely an illustration of perfect shamatha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 9:35 PM
Title: Re: Guru Rinpoche devotional practices
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
I mean it's clear that Enlightened Buddhist Teachers do it.. The Dalai Lama, etc. Your Guru, all respects to Him, is just bearing the Torch of Expedient Means to preserve that type of practice most importantly from what it seems. Nothing wrong with that.

Malcolm wrote:
A live transmission over the web is one thing, a recorded empowerment another. You don’t understand Vajrayana. A transmission is like a pebble handed from one person to another. Can you take a pebble from the hand of a recording? This is the analogy.

I am pointing out that most lamas, 99%, don’t agree with this approach. It’s highly controversial in Tibetan circles.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 9:33 PM
Title: Re: Yet another Buddhism Soul/Self/Anatta thread
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
Then what is the basis for Emptiness?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no basis at all. That’s what “emptiness” means.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 9:30 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
One of The Buddha's reasons for rejecting the Vedas was for the purpose of stopping animal sacrifices done on their false pretext. But there are so many fortellings of a terrible future for mankind still, despite the Advent of the Buddha. We live in Mappo. The Buddhas only give us good though. Based on both Vedic and Buddhist Traditions, things get worse in Kali-Yuga. But Buddha is one to defy odds. I read once in a Buddhist Tantric Text something to the extent of "May all beings become Buddhas at this very moment". Such a thing is possible! How much more possible is it to create a better future for mankind, heeding the warnings of what may come. We must live as Bodhisattvas. There is always hope.

Malcolm wrote:
The tantras also say, “Those with compassion eat meat.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 8:49 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
seeker242 said:
"Avoiding meat and dairy products is the single biggest way to reduce your environmental impact on the planet, according to the scientists behind the most comprehensive analysis to date of the damage farming does to the planet. " https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth

The most comprehensive analysis to date of the damage farming does to the planet. Here is what the lead research scientist has to say about it.

“A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use,” said Joseph Poore, at the University of Oxford, UK, who led the research. “It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car,” he said, as these only cut greenhouse gas emissions.

“Agriculture is a sector that spans all the multitude of environmental problems,” he said. “Really it is animal products that are responsible for so much of this. Avoiding consumption of animal products delivers far better environmental benefits than trying to purchase sustainable meat and dairy.”

Of course, research scientists at the The Queen's College, University of Oxford are well known for just making stuff up and not basing their statements on fact and figures.

Malcolm wrote:
Then there is reality: the world is not gong to go vegan, not tomorrow, next week, next year, or in the next century. In fact, meat consumption will continue to rise, especially in China and India.

seeker242 said:
Doesn't change the fact that it causes less harm, which is the salient point.

Malcolm wrote:
No, you have not proven this to be so. You imagine it is so, because it supports your inclinations, and so you select data that you think bolsters your case. Human activity, all of it, has tremendous impacts on the planet. Your harm-reduction analysis leaves out many factors; by definition, increased cultivation will lead to harming increased numbers of sentient beings. So in the end, the same amount of creatures will be harmed, no matter what we do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 8:36 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
seeker242 said:
"Avoiding meat and dairy products is the single biggest way to reduce your environmental impact on the planet, according to the scientists behind the most comprehensive analysis to date of the damage farming does to the planet. " https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth

The most comprehensive analysis to date of the damage farming does to the planet. Here is what the lead research scientist has to say about it.

“A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use,” said Joseph Poore, at the University of Oxford, UK, who led the research. “It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car,” he said, as these only cut greenhouse gas emissions.

“Agriculture is a sector that spans all the multitude of environmental problems,” he said. “Really it is animal products that are responsible for so much of this. Avoiding consumption of animal products delivers far better environmental benefits than trying to purchase sustainable meat and dairy.”

Of course, research scientists at the The Queen's College, University of Oxford are well known for just making stuff up and not basing their statements on fact and figures.

Malcolm wrote:
Then there is reality: the world is not gong to go vegan, not tomorrow, next week, next year, or in the next century. In fact, meat consumption will continue to rise, especially in China and India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 7:22 PM
Title: Re: Guru Rinpoche devotional practices
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
Question: would they be "not accepting" of such a practice coming from their own selves based on preference, or are they judging His Enlightened judgement on the matter? Or is it just Expedient Means in Vajrayana?

Malcolm wrote:
My guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, explicitly rejected the idea that one could receive empowerments and reading transmissions from recordings. This has been discussed here at length. There are many technical reasons why it is not possible, and no argument for why it is possible. Thus, caveat emptor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 7:14 PM
Title: Re: Yet another Buddhism Soul/Self/Anatta thread
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
So, please establish what is meant by “soul” before discussing whether the Buddha ever talked about one.

Könchok Chödrak said:
Can the "Soul" be referring to Buddha-Nature? People don't tend to deny we all have that, and that it's there. How it's there is the question if such is accepted. Would this be too much of a controversial saying?

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is explicitly rejected by the Buddha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 7:03 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
Um... the article you shared actually proves the opposite of what you're claiming.

Malcolm wrote:
No,it does not.

SilenceMonkey said:
Land requirements decreased steadily as the proportion of food derived from animals declined, with the three vegetarian diets requiring 0.13 to 0.14 hectares (0.32 to 0.35 acres) per person per year.
And you don't even address the main point behind the claim that animal agriculture kills more animals than plant agriculture, which is that you have to feed the cows. So whatever harm that comes from plant agriculture is multiplied in the case of raising animals for meat, because you have to feed the animals plants.

Malcolm wrote:
Overall land use decreases, the area of _cultivated_land increases by double. Since the overall cultivated land use nearly doubles, pesticide and herbicide use will increase exponentially as well, as well as the need to substitute human waste for animal-dung based flail amendments.

Large scale farming is not possible without pesticides, and there isn’t enough guano in world to make it possible to substitute for other kinds of nonchemical fertilizer if those are eliminated.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 11:19 AM
Title: Re: Guru Rinpoche devotional practices
Content:
Soma999 said:
You can take an online Guru Rinpoche empowerment, even from recorded empowerments - from Garchen Rinpoche.

Malcolm wrote:
Caveat emptor. Many lamas, probably a majority, do not accept this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 28th, 2021 at 2:14 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
Yes, literally... Factory farms are pure evil.

Malcolm wrote:
Agriculture in general harms billions of sentient beings, not just factory farms, for example, pressing oils out of seeds, etc.

seeker242 said:
Right, and mass production animal agriculture harm more, compared to just plant agriculture for humans, because it involves excessive amounts of plant agriculture in addition to animal agriculture. It’s well established that the total amount of agriculture necessary would be significantly reduced, if it was just plants for human consumption.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is not well established. This is just a vegan talking point which is not backed up by any real data. It's a talking point based on assumptions, not facts.

The vegan diet is actually slightly more "expensive" than other options:

https://ensia.com/notable/which-diet-makes-best-use-of-farmland-you-might-be-surprised/

The study the above article is based upon:

https://online.ucpress.edu/elementa/article/doi/10.12952/journal.elementa.000116/112904/Carrying-capacity-of-U-S-agricultural-land-Ten

In fact, the same amount of area under cultivation would be required for the planet to go 100% percent vegan. What changes is usage of land not suitable for growing crops, and that land use gets heavily reduced when you eliminate grazing, etc. On the other hand, that land is not suitable for cultivation in general, which is why it is used for grazing in the first place.

The salient point is that shifting towards a plant-based diet can increase the amount of food available to be eaten by human beings, but it won't a actually reduce the amount of land under cultivation at all (especially when you include biofuel cultivation, such as ethanol). In fact, the amount of land under direct cultivation will increase dramatically. Therefore, your repeated asserted that eliminating animals from the human food chain will result in less creatures being harmed overall is specious at best. There are many good reasons to move away from the baseline American diet, which is wasteful and unhealthy in the long run. But the idea that moving away from meat will reduce the need for the same amount of cropland is demonstrably false. In fact, it dramatically increases for the need for cultivation:




So your idea is plain wrong. If we all moved to a vegan or other plant based diet, there will be at least as many sentient beings harmed since the use of pesticides, herbicides, and other pest control measures will increase, not to mention the "collateral" damage of harvesting, pressing, etc.

The fact of the matter is that there is no ideal dietary choice which insulates one from the economics of samsara. If one thinks so, one should become a Jain or a follower of Devadatta.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 27th, 2021 at 10:07 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
Yes, literally... Factory farms are pure evil.

Malcolm wrote:
Agriculture in general harms billions of sentient beings, not just factory farms, for example, pressing oils out of seeds, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 27th, 2021 at 5:12 AM
Title: Re: What does Buddhism say about gender?
Content:
Ardha said:
https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/12902/male-female-is-gender-an-illusion

Something I heard, which then got me thinking about what Buddhism would say about transgender issues, or being gay etc. There is a reference to ultimate reality and conventional reality too, but I'm not entirely convinced. Especially considering that for a time Buddhism wasn't that friendly towards women being enlightened and practicing. What's the verdict on this?

PadmaVonSamba said:
The Buddha actually departed from traditional indian religious culture in that he accepted women into the sangha.

Malcolm wrote:
No, Jains had nuns before the Buddha admitted women into the Sangha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2021 at 9:14 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:



kirtu said:
Trotting out the eternal Al Gore piñata, a mirage in the desert at best.

Malcolm wrote:
I am making the point that the Green Party voters voted against their own interests in 2000, just like they did in 2016. In both cases, the votes drawn off by the GP from the Dems were sufficient to guarantee the GOP an electoral college victory.

Queequeg said:
Anyone who takes the Green Party in the US seriously cannot be taken seriously.

Malcolm wrote:
Perhaps, but they can spoil elections.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2021 at 7:44 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The problem isn’t the science and technology, as you know well, it never has been. The problem is politics and policy. Whatever you make think of Gore, had he been elected, things would have been different, but ironically, Ralph Nader and the Green Party contributed significantly to Gore’s conceding the election to Bush.

kirtu said:
Trotting out the eternal Al Gore piñata, a mirage in the desert at best.

Malcolm wrote:
I am making the point that the Green Party voters voted against their own interests in 2000, just like they did in 2016. In both cases, the votes drawn off by the GP from the Dems were sufficient to guarantee the GOP an electoral college victory.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2021 at 6:41 AM
Title: Re: Yet another Buddhism Soul/Self/Anatta thread
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
Would having a continuity be an eternalist view from the Madhyamaka perspective?

Malcolm wrote:
Not at all. That is the point of the statement:

Though the aggregates are serially connected...

This refers between this life and the next life. There is a connection, but there is no entity that moves from this life to the next:

the wise understand nothing is transferred.

SilenceMonkey said:
I see... I need to study more. What would you say about my response in the previous post to PVS regarding moments in time? (Sorry, I edited it a couple mins after posting) How can things be serially connected if they don't exist?

Perhaps moments don't have ultimate existence, but they appear to exist in the (undeluded) relative?

Malcolm wrote:
Partless moments are irrefutable, even through Madhyamaka reasoning, because they do not have duration. They are a relative ultimate, but not the ultimate free of proliferation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2021 at 4:00 AM
Title: Re: Practical difference between Yidam practice and Guru Yoga
Content:


Passing By said:
...Dzogchen, Guru Yoga is always emphasized as the essence of everything up to and including upadesha practices. Is yidam done in Ati context also considered a form of Guru Yoga?

Malcolm wrote:
In Dzogchen, the guru, the yidam, and the ḍākinī are the basis, and nothing else. The guru is the essence, original purity; the yidam is the nature, natural purity; and the ḍākinī is their inseparability, compassion.

Passing By said:
So, in other words, as long as one is working with the thigle nyagchig, regardless of what method is being used, it is guru yoga as far as Dzogchen is concerned, whether the practice nominally has a guru figure, deity or dakini associated with it?

Malcolm wrote:
In Dzogchen, the guru, yidam, and ḍākinī is rigpa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2021 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: Poll - ngondro accumulations in sequence? (finish one 100,000 then do next?)
Content:


heart said:
In sequence is the normal, in the Nyingma you always do the whole text every time you accumulate but just a few recitations of the sections that you don't accumulate.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this really is not the case, and I can provide many counterfactual examples.

heart said:
Well, this is how I was taught, more than once I might add. Anyway, doing one thing at the time is something I also seen.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no one size that fits all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2021 at 3:55 AM
Title: Re: Yet another Buddhism Soul/Self/Anatta thread
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
Would having a continuity be an eternalist view from the Madhyamaka perspective?

Malcolm wrote:
Not at all. That is the point of the statement:

Though the aggregates are serially connected...

This refers between this life and the next life. There is a connection, but there is no entity that moves from this life to the next:

the wise understand nothing is transferred.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2021 at 3:52 AM
Title: Re: Translations of the Lotus Sutra - which is suitable for beginners?
Content:
Queequeg said:
Intro to the translation of the Tibetan at 84000 is indeed good. The question about the Devadatta section missing from the Kumarajiva translation is interesting. It also lacks sections in the Medicinal Herbs chapter. Kumarajiva was from Kucha.

Malcolm wrote:
What's even more interesting is that the missing parts were cobbled onto the Kumarjiva recension to make it more "complete."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 26th, 2021 at 3:47 AM
Title: Re: Yet another Buddhism Soul/Self/Anatta thread
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
When you say:
“In order for there to be a new being, some other being must have been annihilated.” Are you paraphrasing the annihilationist view, or the correct view?

Malcolm wrote:
I am paraphrasing the annihilationist view, in this context the idea that in the series of a continuum, there is an old being that perished and a new being that comes into existence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 11:59 PM
Title: Re: Practical difference between Yidam practice and Guru Yoga
Content:


Passing By said:
...Dzogchen, Guru Yoga is always emphasized as the essence of everything up to and including upadesha practices. Is yidam done in Ati context also considered a form of Guru Yoga?

Malcolm wrote:
In Dzogchen, the guru, the yidam, and the ḍākinī are the basis, and nothing else. The guru is the essence, original purity; the yidam is the nature, natural purity; and the ḍākinī is their inseparability, compassion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 11:55 PM
Title: Re: Poll - ngondro accumulations in sequence? (finish one 100,000 then do next?)
Content:


heart said:
In sequence is the normal, in the Nyingma you always do the whole text every time you accumulate but just a few recitations of the sections that you don't accumulate.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this really is not the case, and I can provide many counterfactual examples.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: Yet another Buddhism Soul/Self/Anatta thread
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
In the first case, there is the same being carrying karma with it.
In the second case, the new being IS the result of ripening karma.

Malcolm wrote:
Both of these options are incorrect views of rebirth.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Okay... please explain

Malcolm wrote:
Nothing transfers, but there is serial continuity:

ཕུང་པོ་ཉིང་མཚམས་སྦྱོར་བ་ཡང༌། །མི་འཕོ་བར་ཡང་མཁས་རྟོགས་བྱ།
།ཤིན་ཏུ་ཕྲ་བའི་དངོས་ལ་ཡང༌། །གང་གི་ཆད་པར་རྣམ་བརྟགས་པ།
།རྣམ་པར་མི་མཁས་དེ་ཡི་ནི། །རྐྱེན་ལས་བྱུང་བའི་དོན་མ་མཐོང༌།

Though the aggregates are serially connected, 
the wise understand nothing is transferred. 
The person who imputes the annihilation 
of even the most subtle entity
is not wise and does not see 
the meaning of arising from conditions.

—Pratītyasamutpādahṛdayakārikā

In order for there to be a new being, some other being must have been annihilated. Your presentation is exactly the annihilationist view of self negated by the Buddha in many places.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 7:39 PM
Title: Re: Yet another Buddhism Soul/Self/Anatta thread
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
In the first case, there is the same being carrying karma with it.
In the second case, the new being IS the result of ripening karma.

Malcolm wrote:
Both of these options are incorrect views of rebirth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 10:32 AM
Title: Re: Mantra accumulation while walking
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
if we want to be Spiritual

Malcolm wrote:
I have zero interest in being spiritual.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 10:29 AM
Title: Re: Yet another Buddhism Soul/Self/Anatta thread
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
The eighth consciousness doesn’t go from one body to another.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s incorrect. It moves from one body to another mounted on the pranavayu. This process is detailed quite extensively in both sutra and tantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: Mantra accumulation while walking
Content:
Donny said:
Or did you get teachings from you teachers that dealt with things like this?

Malcolm wrote:
Doesn't count.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: Translations of the Lotus Sutra - which is suitable for beginners?
Content:
Queequeg said:
Tibetans in general don't think much of the Lotus Sutra. (See https://tricycle.org/magazine/greater-awakening/; Then there is https://youtu.be/9qqGE8ZulAg ) In East Asia it is possibly the most influential text.

Malcolm wrote:
Its not the Tibetans don't think much (pejorative) of the Lotus Sūtra, it's just not part of the Tibetan curriculum.

Tibetans tend to focus on those sūtras that have well-established commentarial traditions, like the Prajñāpāramita. More importantly, they focus on the commentarial Tradition of Nalanda, and when it comes to the words of the Buddha, spend most of their time on the exegesis of the various tantras that form the core of their curriculum, Guhyasamaja, Guhyagarbha, Hevajra, and Kalacakra. These are the main ones.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 2:31 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:


GrapeLover said:
It is difficult to see how he could convincingly manage this, as the Nirvana Sutra mentions three-fold purity explicitly and has the Buddha say he wants to end meat-eating altogether:

Malcolm wrote:
The three-fold purity is rejected in the sūtras he himself mentions, like the Lanka. It is clear he considers this to be a provisional teaching, not something we need to take literally.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 2:26 AM
Title: Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
I'd hate to derail the thread but does anyone have anything about Karma Chagme and vegetarianism, or why tsok in Drikung is mostly vegetarian?

GrapeLover said:
Karma Chakme's "Comprehensive Critique of Meat" is available in the book "The Faults of Meat" by Geoffrey Barstow.

Here is the conclusion:
For all these reasons, the best option is to perform the holy act of relinquishing all meat. When you perform a ritual feast, use meat with threefold purity in order to guard your samaya. At that time, it is very important simply to not reject meat, alcohol, or dough. Eat only a little, however, an amount equivalent to the leg of an insect. The middle option is to give up meat that was slaughtered for your own sake, or, if you eat other meat, to eat only a little. The least option is to give up the meat of animals killed that day, the meat of animals of a similar species, and human meat. When you do eat it, bless it as divine nectar and consume it as an inner fire offering.
Regarding the least option, he says:
The answer is that such a person must be able to either truly transform the meat into divine nectar or, if they do not transform it into divine nectar, they must be able to transform their body so that they appear as a burial-ground jackal, a tiger, a lion, or the like. After that they can eat. [...] The Vimalaprabhā, the great commentary on the Kālacakra Tantra, explains that if you are unable to turn a tooth into a pearl, a skull-cup into a lotus, meat into sons’ hair, and blood into a heruka deity, then it is unacceptable to eat this. Even if they spend eons trying, ordinary people are unable perform such transformations. Therefore it is widely explained that they should not try to transform these substances into divine nectar by themselves.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is one opinion. The opinion of my guru is that if you avoid meat and you are Vajrayāna practitioner, your compassion is, as he put it, "miserable."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism
Content:
Queequeg said:
Please feel free to conclude what you want about my views.

Malcolm wrote:
At this point, on this point, my conclusion is that your contention was not well thought out.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 25th, 2021 at 12:17 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
frankie said:
Intellectually speaking, using the poverty of only partially able words to point out reality - I make you right.  I talk about both practical real-life contingency there, and also the dangers of swinging between polarities.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no danger there. We use the convention "car" to use a collection of parts, none of which is a car, to get from point a to point b. We generally try to avoid wrecking said parts. The same applies a body.


frankie said:
For all practical reasons you definitely relate to the relative 'self' called Malcolm and enjoy taking that collective to do whatever you like to do with it and all it's wondrous thoughts and concepts.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but you must understand, I was responding to someone else's assertion of a truly existent soul. Context is king.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 at 11:29 PM
Title: Re: Able to awaken to our innate Buddha-nature through our actual practice?
Content:


Minobu said:
look at timestamps

Malcolm wrote:
Follow the plan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 at 11:02 PM
Title: Re: Translations of the Lotus Sutra - which is suitable for beginners?
Content:
Queequeg said:
Tibetans in general don't think much of the Lotus Sutra. (See https://tricycle.org/magazine/greater-awakening/; Then there is https://youtu.be/9qqGE8ZulAg ) In East Asia it is possibly the most influential text.

Brunelleschi said:
I know there was a project translating the Tibetan version of Lotus Sutra. I donated to the project but I don't know how its faring...

I personally really like the Lotus Sutra and have a copy of it, along with the excellent Reading the Lotus Sutra by Teiser & Stone (2009). I mean, many (all?) Sutras proclaim themselves as the superior teaching. Which, in a sense must be true, otherwise the Buddha would be breaking the precepts of not lying - which is impossible.


Malcolm wrote:
https://read.84000.co/translation/toh113.html

This is the best translation into English yet. The introduction and textual analysis by Peter Alan Roberts alone is worth its weight in gold.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 at 11:00 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
frankie said:
I imagine you already know the answer to that.

For my pennyworth: There is of course the notion of the relative self that, due to flux and dependent arising, can also be seen from that position as  being not self-empty, and full of morphing potentiality at the absolute level. Seen in this manner, relative 'self' and absolute nature are simultaneously two sides of the same coin.

Malcolm wrote:
It is precisely because of impermanence and dependent origination that a so-called "self" is just a conventional expression.

The term "self" is used to designate the parts of a person as a collection. But there is no self in a person, no person in a self, not person or self in an individual, and no such thing as individual, that is to say, an entity that can bear division and analysis.

Likewise, there is no soul.

The term "absolute nature" is also something which is just an abstraction, without pointing to anything real.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You are essentializing something that is not an essence and has no essence.

Queequeg said:
I'm not. Ordinary karuna has no essence in the same way. I'm just exchanging views through this imperfect medium.

Malcolm wrote:
You said:
Mahakaruna is unaquired...Bodhicitta, too, is unacquired. If it was not there to begin with, it could not be manifest.
To say that something in not acquired is to claim it is innate. To claim something is innate is to claim it is a nature.

Bodhicitta is the desire to attain awakening. Mahāyāna bodhicitta is the desire to attain full buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings. Claiming that bodhicitta is innate or unacquired is a strange claim. This is not the same as the so-called prakṛtīgotra, natural disposition. Natural disposition means simply that we have a mind, and that mind can become inspired to desire awakening when it meets with proper conditions to develop Mahāyāna bodhicitta. But Mahāyāna bodhicitta is by no means innate, and neither is mahākaruna, the compassion which is absolutely free of reference points. A mother's compassion is very much a referential compassion.

Mahākaruna and bodhicitta are both acquired. How? Through training. If they were unacquired, as you claim, no training would be needed to develop them, but this is clear not the case.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 at 10:26 PM
Title: Re: rebirth and veganism
Content:
Giovanni said:
This is clearly untrue. One bag of rice equals many thousands of dead plants plus the weeds and other plants plus dead worms etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Plus all the feather meal used to fertilize rice, etc., in growing all that organic produce for vegans.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 at 8:55 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
frankie said:
"There is no self, nor is there a soul that is anything more than a verbal convention for something that has never existed."


Woohoo! gonna save me loads of money on needing to clothe and feed the non-existent self from now on. No need to keep it warm, educated, take it to dharmawheel...not even any need to be careful crossing the road lest it take the risk of a non-existent bus passing through the non-existent self, etc, etc, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
So, you think your body is a “self?”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 at 8:53 PM
Title: Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism
Content:



Queequeg said:
my five year old daughter doesn't want to eat meat because she just thinks its mean. if equanimity, kindness and great compassion are all that different from that, then I think something has gone wrong.

At this point in life, it just seems people overthink things. maybe I've devolved into a simpleton. maybe I need to learn the great thaumatological secrets.

frankly, your way seems too complicated.

tobes said:
Yes, to be honest I think there is a very big difference between the sentiments of a five year old and the actual realisations of mahakaruna. There is nothing is secretive about this, it is actually a matter of humility to recognise that having bodhicitta properly take stock in our mindstream is an incredible accomplishment. And it is rare. And it is all to easy to conflate this with mere virtuous sentiments and wishful thinking.

Queequeg said:
Nonsense. Mahakaruna is unaquired. It is coextensive with all beings and expresses as our selfless impulses - the love and concern of a parent for a child, the pull of empathy. That's not to say its untainted and undeveloped. Its not a difference of kind but difference of cultivation. Bodhicitta, too, is unacquired. If it was not there to begin with, it could not be manifest.

Malcolm wrote:
Mahakaruna is free of all references, but it begins with the development of regular old karuna. You are essentializing something that is not an essence and has no essence.

Bodhicitta is born out of compassion, it’s not an intrinsic quality of sentient beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 at 9:57 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
Well I don't mind this kind of debate, it's what keeps an aspect Buddhism going. It just has to be done with the proper context. I honestly don't want to start an argument about it, I just wish people would listen to each other more and tell the truth, because one day the mountain will crumble if we're not careful, and someone may he left avalanched underneath. This is serious Dharmic stuff.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no self, nor is there a soul that is anything more than a verbal convention for something that has never existed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 at 5:29 AM
Title: Re: Arhats and Bodhisattvas
Content:
avatamsaka3 said:
Could this be referring to the Buddha Himself as a type of Arhat?
He is described that way in the Pali sources. But, of course, he is not just an arhat.

Still don't know what a bodhisattva arhat is.

Malcolm wrote:
A Buddha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:


DNS said:
Monks practicing in the Mahayana tradition eat only vegetarian foods, adhering to the diet of Devadata...

Malcolm wrote:
Chinese monks, primarily. Most of the Tibetan Mahāyāna monks eat meat.

DNS said:
I noticed that too. That's a common assumption made by some Theravadins (Mahapajapati is a Theravada bhikkhuni monastery). Not all Mahayana schools advocate vegetarian diets, in fact, it's probably just a minority number of schools, mostly being Chan and some Zen schools.


Malcolm wrote:
In fact, though some people assume it is an ipso facto Mahāyāna position, Mahāyānīs such as Bhavaviveka make the argument that as long as the meat is pure in three ways, there is no fault. You will note that that the strongest admonitions against eating meat come from the Yogacāra and Tathāgatagarbha sūtras.

Bhavaviveka recognizes that meat eating is mentioned by the Buddha in Tathāgatagarbha and Yogacāra sūtras, but he clearly considers these admonitions by the Buddha not to be in contradiction with the principle of three-fold purity. He insists that the point of the Buddha was making was not to personally engage in harming animals, because of the Buddha's love for all sentient beings.

He makes the point that there is no mind in dead meat, so there can be no suffering caused by eating that meat. He also dispenses with the idea that meat is impure food, as opposed to milk, etc. He also rejects the idea that eating meat implicitly involves one in killing, pointing out if this is so, then those who wear leather, etc., are also killers, etc.

He also rejects the idea that plants are sentient:

Plants are not sentient
because they are not included within the four types of birth.

The four types of birth are apparitional, heat and moisture, egg, and womb birth. There is no "seed," "rhizome," or "spore" birth.

So this controversy boils down to those Mahāyānīs who follow Madhyamaka and those follow Yogacāra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 24th, 2021 at 3:58 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:


DNS said:
Monks practicing in the Mahayana tradition eat only vegetarian foods, adhering to the diet of Devadata...

Malcolm wrote:
Chinese monks, primarily. Most of the Tibetan Mahāyāna monks eat meat.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 at 9:33 PM
Title: Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism
Content:


Queequeg said:
Does the corpse have a lingering connection to the deceased? This practice of benefiting requires a connection.

Malcolm wrote:
The connection is made if the practitioner has the ability rest in rig pa. Otherwise, for the sentient being in question, there is no benefit.

Meat, wool, leather, hooves, bones, etc., don’t suffer. So as long as there is no participation through killing, witnessing, etc., i.e., the meat is pure in three ways, there is no fault in eating it and so no misdeed. The humanitarian, economic and climate issues are of a different order, and are not necessarily reflected in individual choices.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 at 9:17 AM
Title: Re: rebirth and veganism
Content:
cjdevries said:
I agree that it seems far-fetched that rocks could be sentient, but I just found this article from ananda that said Paramahansa Yogananda had talked about being a diamond in a past life.  I know this is a Buddhist website, but I feel that this perspective could at least be food for thought: https://www.ananda.org/ask/from-minerals-to-humans-the-story-of-reincarnation/

Malcolm wrote:
Hindus have a different idea about reincarnation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021 at 4:06 AM
Title: Re: rebirth and veganism
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
Perhaps plants don't or ignorance, or the capability to become enlightened... who knows!

I'm willing to bet that modern science and buddhism don't have the same definitions of sentience and consciousness. If we're using the word, what are the assumptions behind it?

cjdevries said:
I believe that in some forms of Taoism, they accept plants as part of the reincarnation cycle. I have heard teachers say that many of us had past lives as plants and even minerals. I know of highly developed healers who have directly communicated with mineral spirits.

SilenceMonkey said:
That's very interesting. I know of shamans who practice with plant spirits in the amazon, but I've never heard of minerals. Every now and then you hear of great bodhisattvas inhabiting mountains... Do you mean crystals or rock?


Seeker12 said:
Yeah, I think this is generally the standard interpretation, that basically beings can inhabit plants, rocks, etc, as a sort of abode, but the abode is not itself necessarily in-and-of-itself sentient. And so for example in monastic precepts, one should not carelessly cut plants, uproot them, etc, any more than someone should perhaps burn down someone's house. Even if burning down someone's house isn't the same as killing them. Basically.

SilenceMonkey said:
Perhaps this is because the plants may be a home for animals?

cjdevries said:
A healer told me that when she was meditating in the mountains, one of the rock spirits started to communicate with them.  She couldn't believe it was happening at first, but she said it was very clear that it was real.  After that, she completely changed her perception of what was alive and what wasn't.

Malcolm wrote:
Spirits that live in trees, springs, etc., are one thing; claiming that trees, springs, etc., are sentient is quite another thing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 22nd, 2021 at 8:30 PM
Title: Re: Able to awaken to our innate Buddha-nature through our actual practice?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Assuming awakening means the realization of the emptiness of causes and effects, including the causes and effects of buddhahood, the question beings asked here is how chanting the title of the Lotus Sutra results in the realization of emptiness more effectively than any other practice. In other words, how is chanting this title a more efficient cause for realizing emptiness than say practicing zazen.

tkp67 said:
Well Nichiren's perspective was that the daimoku was not just the title of the sutra. Based on the attributes Nichiren identified the true benefit of chanting daimoku is true lotus meditation.

Malcolm wrote:
That's fine. So, the question is how does that help one realize emptiness, eliminate afflictions that cause rebirth, and so on? Why is it more effective than all the other teachings of the Buddha? For example, why is it more effective than zazen, keeping in mind that in Japanese monasteries of the Soto Tradition, passages from the Lotus are included in their daily recitations?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 22nd, 2021 at 8:27 PM
Title: Re: How to decarbonize your life.
Content:
Queequeg said:
One set of  questions I've had the last few years is about what we, as a family, could do to reduce our carbon footprint and have a more ecologically sound lifestyle in general.

Malcolm wrote:
I think we need to go with silicon-based lifeforms from now on...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 22nd, 2021 at 6:51 AM
Title: Re: How does intersubjective interaction work in Mahayana Buddhism?
Content:
Cool-team said:
All Mahayana Buddhism believes that all phenomena, including other persons, are made of mind.
Each mindstream experiences reality constructed by mind itself.

Malcolm wrote:
Ummmm, no.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 22nd, 2021 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: rebirth and veganism
Content:
clyde said:
This is a sincere question but touches on two sensitive topics: rebirth and veganism.

What living organisms are reborn after death? Or if it’s simpler to answer, what living organisms aren’t reborn after death?

Most Buddhists would answer “human beings” and more broadly “sentient beings” or “animals”. But there is scientific controversy about sentience and whether plants have sentience; so are plants reborn? And there is scientific controversy whether single-celled organisms which are neither plant nor animal are sentient; so are single-celled organisms reborn? And regarding animals, do they need to have a nervous system to be reborn?

Malcolm wrote:
The classical Indian Buddhist position is that plants are not considered sentient.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 22nd, 2021 at 1:36 AM
Title: Re: Asian grandmother fights back after racist attack in San Francisco
Content:
karmanyingpo said:
We can't get rid of the fact that Trump was president and spread words of vitriol and stupidity among the people

Malcolm wrote:
Trump has weaponized white demographic anxiety. The objects of that anxiety are Liberals, BLM, Antifa, and anything that can be put in the "Other" box.

Yes, all that bias was there already, but it took someone to weaponize for political gain. Well, the GOP has been weaponizing racism since Nixon, but now the demographics are starting to fail so-called "white people." This has happened before in our country many times, but we included formerly excluded groups in the white column (Irish, Jews, Italians, Greeks) and expanded the "white" demographic as these latter groups entered the middle class.

Thus, this is all about racial myth, privilege, and combatting threats to that privilege.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 22nd, 2021 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: If You Eat Meat You Are Not a Kagyupa - Karmapas and strict vegetarianism
Content:


Queequeg said:
Why stop at animals we like to eat?

Malcolm wrote:
Some animals are food, some animals are not, and this is culturally determined. Also the Buddha determined in Vinaya what kind of meat is acceptable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 21st, 2021 at 11:08 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


DNS said:
A little more than halfway through, he put up some interesting statistics:

About 36% of Buddhist teachers are vegetarian. About 9% are vegan for a total of about 45% vegetarian/vegan.

About 21% of Buddhist practitioners (laypeople) are vegetarian while only 0.01% are vegan.

I've always guessed it was around 50% thus, the controversy and sometimes heated debates among Buddhists.

Malcolm wrote:
This tension has been in the Dharma since the beginning.

DNS said:
Yes, apparently so. The Buddha instructed the monks to consume what is placed in the bowl, no matter if vegetarian or not, but was not very specific for lay people, thus, the controversy and debates. And then of course there was Devadatta, who wanted vegetarianism to be compulsory along with some other ascetic practices and the Buddha rejected the list.

The best book (in my opinion) that fairly discusses both sides is this one by Ven. Dhammika. He takes an unbiased, objective account for both sides.

pdf link:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjKkcyuz8HvAhXTG80KHSS7AoQQFjAAegQIAxAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fairfun.net%2Fmy3%2Fpanna_my%2Fb%2520buddhism%2FPDFe-Books%2FToEatOrNotToEatMeat-Dhammika.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0Aki1I5xvuh6Eno-jO5VT0

If the link doesn't work, just google:

To Eat or Not to Eat Meat Ven. Dhammika

Malcolm wrote:
Very clearly, when the Buddha lived, most people in India regularly consumed fish and poultry.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 21st, 2021 at 9:30 PM
Title: Re: Able to awaken to our innate Buddha-nature through our actual practice?
Content:
narhwal90 said:
I don't know- seems a legitmate question to me.   We don't need to use Nichiren's medieval accent and pronounciation, we don't need to pronounce daimoku in the same dialect or accent accent as Sakyamuni- or how Nagarjuna might have.   Traditionally, we can use any western version of the Japanese pronounciation.   If dialect and accent don't matter, what makes the words magic?    Will pronouncing the title in english work?   If not, why not.    If its that the meaning of the words we recite matters then an english pronounciation should work, but coca-cola- being a distraction from the contemplation of the sutra- should not.

tkp67 said:
The basis for myoho renge kyo is shakyamuni buddha's enlightenment as described in the lotus sutra. He is the world honored one. To deny the cause and effect of his buddhahood is to destroy the seeds of one's own enlightenment.

Making your own point of reference is just that. Trying to examine it from a position of doubt will never reveal the true nature of reality.

However there are more complexities to the chant itself.

Malcolm wrote:
Assuming awakening means the realization of the emptiness of causes and effects, including the causes and effects of buddhahood, the question beings asked here is how chanting the title of the Lotus Sutra results in the realization of emptiness more effectively than any other practice. In other words, how is chanting this title a more efficient cause for realizing emptiness than say practicing zazen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 21st, 2021 at 11:07 AM
Title: Re: Asian grandmother fights back after racist attack in San Francisco
Content:
coldbeer said:
Racism and hatred have been in the hearts of Americans long before Trump. The whole country was built on the genocide of Natives by white Europeans.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, my ancestors among them.

And of course, slavery. 1492 and 1617.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 21st, 2021 at 10:59 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


DNS said:
A little more than halfway through, he put up some interesting statistics:

About 36% of Buddhist teachers are vegetarian. About 9% are vegan for a total of about 45% vegetarian/vegan.

About 21% of Buddhist practitioners (laypeople) are vegetarian while only 0.01% are vegan.

I've always guessed it was around 50% thus, the controversy and sometimes heated debates among Buddhists.

Malcolm wrote:
This tension has been in the Dharma since the beginning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 21st, 2021 at 10:26 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
DNS said:
Here's a new vegan video just released by a Buddhist. It's not as loud or angry as the one linked here earlier.

Sunrise said:
What industry does to these sentient beings, even in better treatment farms, is just nauseating.

Malcolm wrote:
Samsara.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 21st, 2021 at 10:24 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
kirtu said:
SA_Jacobson_2009.jpg

Written on the eve of the 2009 Copenhagen climate summit http://www.solaripedia.com/files/399.pdf showed how a rigourously researched pathway to power the world with 100% renewable energy by 2030 was possible, pdf
The article concluded:

"A large-scale wind, water and solar (WWS) energy system can reliably supply the world’s needs, significantly benefiting climate, air quality, water quality, ecology and energy security...As we have shown, the obstacles are primarily political, not technical...(leaders) can start by committing to meaningful climate and renewable energy goals now".
It is true that Jacobson's plan has some criticism but his case has largely been made.

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
The problem isn’t the science and technology, as you know well, it never has been. The problem is politics and policy. Whatever you make think of Gore, had he been elected, things would have been different, but ironically, Ralph Nader and the Green Party contributed significantly to Gore’s conceding the election to Bush.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 21st, 2021 at 4:35 AM
Title: Re: Arhats and Bodhisattvas
Content:


Seeker12 said:
So were all of the initial disciples of the Buddha Bodhisattvas? What about the second generation, or third? Where/who are the non-Bodhisattva arhats?

Malcolm wrote:
A number of them were.

Seeker12 said:
According to the BDK lotus sutra, it seems all of the initial ones were, see below.

So then, the initial arhats were all Bodhisattvas so the rhetoric of them being only in possession of 1/2 insight into emptiness would not apply.

It would then, perhaps, only apply to some of those after the time of the Buddha who do not properly understand, but even they are destined for full awakening as a Buddha and will immediately understand properly when they meet a Buddha. Is that about right? If so, that would make me personally curious to understand such individuals.

Malcolm wrote:
I am not sure we can all the initial arhats were Mahāyāna bodhisattvas, but certainly Śariputra, Ananda, etc. were, according to Mahāyāna tradition. On the other hand, Śariputra is often set up to look like a dummy in many Mahāyāna sūtras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Arhats and Bodhisattvas
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
These arhats were all bodhisattva arhats, not shravaka arhats.

Seeker12 said:
So were all of the initial disciples of the Buddha Bodhisattvas? What about the second generation, or third? Where/who are the non-Bodhisattva arhats?

Malcolm wrote:
A number of them were.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 10:11 PM
Title: Re: Info on Rinjung Gyatsa Empowerment
Content:
jmlee369 said:
an aside, what should we think of Sakya Pandita's criticisms of other traditions?

Malcolm wrote:
We think that unlike Dechen Nyingpo, Sapan never opined that anyone was going to hell for having views with which he disagreed. Indeed, he invited open investigation of his critiques.

Frankly, the Anti-Nyingma sentiments of Pabhongka and his circle of intimates is hardly news, being well documented and available for anyone to read who has an interest in history.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 8:29 PM
Title: Re: Arhats and Bodhisattvas
Content:
Seeker12 said:
It's sometimes said that an arhat corresponds to an 8th Bhumi Bodhisattva, or that an arhat can enter the Mahayana and basically they start at the 8th Bhumi or will very quickly get there, or similar things.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is a mistaken view. If this were the case, the three incalculable eons necessary for buddhahood in sūtrayāna could bypassed by attaining arhatship.

But it does not work like that. First, the emptiness realized by arhats is only the emptiness of the person, not of phenomena, and not of the emptiness of the four extremes.

Gorampa Sonam Senge addresses all these issues in his Differentiation of Views. You can look there.

Seeker12 said:
In the Sutra “Introduction to the Domain of the Inconceivable Qualities and Wisdom of the Tathāgatas” the following is a description of the arhat retinue present for the Sutra:

“ They all were established in the true, quintessential nature of all phenomena. They abided without support or foundation in the sphere of space. They had cast aside the deeply ingrained obscuration of the afflictive emotions. They possessed the knowledge of how to enter into the spheres of conduct and wisdom of the omniscient ones. They engaged in the conduct of the bodhisattvas. They were established in a method that revealed the dharmadhātu of all the tathāgatas. They were immersed in the single Dharma method. They had approached omniscience. They were unswerving on the path of omniscience; their minds never turned away from omniscience. Their minds were established in understanding and wisdom. They had perfected the wisdom and insight of omniscience. Their methods and conduct had become steadfast.
The Buddha was also accompanied by sixty-two thousand nuns, including Mahāprajāpatī and Yaśodharā. They, too, had amassed virtuous qualities and were approaching the wisdom of omniscience. They were established in a method that revealed omniscience. They had realized the nonsubstantiality of all phenomena. They were established in the signlessness of all phenomena. They understood the true nature of all phenomena. They were convinced that all phenomena are unproduced, unceasing, and beyond oppositional factors. They were established in inconceivable liberation and meditative absorption. They manifested, spontaneously and nonconceptually, in shapes, bodies, colors, and modes of conduct that were perfectly suited to all the sentient beings to be trained.”

That certainly seems like insight into the twofold emptiness to me, given phrases like “They had realized the nonsubstantiality of all phenomena.”

If we take this Sutra to be authentic, then is it that these initial disciples were basically just Bodhisattvas masquerading as arhats? If so, then which arhats are arhats that are not Bodhisattvas masquerading as arhats? Who are these sravaka arhats that only have the 1/2 insight into emptiness if it was not the initial sravaka disciples?

Malcolm wrote:
They engaged in the conduct of the bodhisattvas.

These arhats were all bodhisattva arhats, not shravaka arhats.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 8:25 PM
Title: Re: Asian grandmother fights back after racist attack in San Francisco
Content:
Queequeg said:
Oh christ. Stfu.

Brunelleschi said:
That's a bit unnecessary. If I was out of line, I apologize.

Queequeg said:
Online, its hard to tell where someone is coming from. Your reference to some random set of statistics is so far off target that it comes across as gas lighting.

One of the issues that is now being highlighted in the recent wave of anti-Asian hate crimes is that in the past, the public conversation led by the media has deflected the racist attitudes towards Asians and rationalizes it as something else. So, when you bring up some random statistic about violent crime in the US to say there is no problem, you are either absolutely clueless and really should not be speaking up, or you are something worse.

This thread itself took that turn, shifting the subject to some more general remarks about violent crime in the US.

Its a complicated issue. In general, people don't take Asians in the US seriously. Model minorities that can be ignored. And then layer on the screwed up views of Asian women as sex objects and men as effeminate bit characters or martial arts fighters. Cultural stoicism is taken as weakness and a basis to relegate Asians to an afterthought. The second and third generation Asians are not as stoic and are now speaking up. We will see what changes, if anything.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/18/nyregion/asian-hate-crimes.html

Malcolm wrote:
Pointing out a reduction in violent crime shines a spotlight on this kind racially motivated violence, not the opposite.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 8:08 PM
Title: Re: merigar gompa
Content:
Arnoud said:
Do you know why Rinpoche chose Tuscany as his base? I love Italy and wonder if there were more spiritual reasons to locate there besides the vineyards and nice way of living.

Malcolm wrote:
His students found the place.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 4:55 AM
Title: Re: merigar gompa
Content:
naljor said:
Hello, is there any list of masters depicted in Merigar gompa?

Malcolm wrote:
There is, but it is in the book, the Temple of Great Liberation:

https://www.ssi-austria.at/shop/products/books/books-in-english/books-chnn/public-books-chnn-in-english/chogyal-namkhai-norbu-the-temple-of-great-liberation-the-gonpa-of-merigar.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 4:53 AM
Title: Re: Arhats and Bodhisattvas
Content:
Seeker12 said:
It's sometimes said that an arhat corresponds to an 8th Bhumi Bodhisattva, or that an arhat can enter the Mahayana and basically they start at the 8th Bhumi or will very quickly get there, or similar things.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is a mistaken view. If this were the case, the three incalculable eons necessary for buddhahood in sūtrayāna could bypassed by attaining arhatship.

But it does not work like that. First, the emptiness realized by arhats is only the emptiness of the person, not of phenomena, and not of the emptiness of the four extremes.

Gorampa Sonam Senge addresses all these issues in his Differentiation of Views. You can look there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 4:49 AM
Title: Re: Info on Rinjung Gyatsa Empowerment
Content:


Volan said:
It seems that this cleared away his doubts about Pabongka`s authenticity and Pabongka was authorized as his substitute.

Malcolm wrote:
Apparently, the Great 13th continued to have doubts about Pabhongka.

Volan said:
When Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche was giving teachings in Chutsang, the Lam Rim teaching you have in the Liberation in the palm…, the Thirteenth Dalai Lama issued an order that, as there was a drought in Lhasa and his flowers in the Norbu Lingka palace could die,

Malcolm wrote:
The teachings that were to be turned into Liberation in the Palm of One's Hand were taught in 1921, nine years before the falling out between  the Great 13th and Pabhongkha.

Funny, you severely critized terma and Dzogchen in another thread, but here you are relying on the authority of  the Great 13th to prop up Pabhongkha. Surely, you must know that the Great 13th not only was the main patron and student of Terton Sogyal, a.k.a Lerab Lingpa, but also a Dzogchen practitioner.

In any case, it must have dawned on you by now that most of the Tibetan Buddhists here are either Nyingma, Sakya, or Kagyu, and as such, whether you think it is fair or not, most of us consider Pabhongkha to be irredeemably sectarian. Therefore, we wouldn't touch a lineage coming through him with a ten foot pole.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 3:10 AM
Title: Re: Asian grandmother fights back after racist attack in San Francisco
Content:


coldbeer said:
World is getting more and more sick.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, it used to be much worse in terms of personal violence between individuals.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 3:08 AM
Title: Re: Info on Rinjung Gyatsa Empowerment
Content:
PeterC said:
You’re saying that that’s the reason why extant lineages in Gelug often run through him?

HH13DL had some harsh words for PDNr for what he got up to in Kham.   Their relationship had some tensions.

Malcolm wrote:
The reason all these lineages run though him is that Pabhongkha was the principle guru of Ling Rinpoche and Trijiang Rinpoche, and they in turn were the principle gurus of a whole generation of Gelukpads in exile. But Ling Rinpoche never received this practice from Pabhongkha. There are lines of Gelugpa transmission in Amdo that do not run through Pabhongkha. The later Kirti Tsenshab never had any involvement with the Pabhongaka stream, as far as I understand things, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 2:57 AM
Title: Re: Info on Rinjung Gyatsa Empowerment
Content:
Volan said:
According to HH 14th Dalai Lama, Phabongkha Rinpoché was authorized by The Thirteenth Dalai Lama as his substitute in the role of mahayana and vajrayana teacher because of a lack of time due to his responsibilities as a politician. You can read this in his "Biography of Kyabjé Ling Rinpoché".


Malcolm wrote:
That was in 1926, but by 1930, the relationship between the two had degenerated:
Pabongkha's relationship with the Thirteenth Dalai Lama was complex and may have eventually suffered due to Pabongkha's faith in Dorje Shugden. The one-volume Lhasa edition of The Melodious Voice of Brahma notes an exchange of letters that took place between the Dalai Lama and Pabongkha around 1930. In the final letters of this exchange the Dalai Lama chastises the lama for his propitiation of Shugden and the spread of the practice at Drepung Monastery which appeared to displease the protector Nechung (gnas chung). Pabongkha replied to the letter saying he only propitiated Shugden as he was the protector of his maternal lineage, and that he henceforth promises to give up the practice. It is clear, however, from the dates given in the colophons of his Shugden-works that Pabongkha's propitiation of Shugden continued after 1930.
https://treasuryoflives.org/biographies/view/Pabongkha-Dechen-Nyingpo/TBRC_p230

It appears that Pabhongkha did not keep up his promise.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 20th, 2021 at 1:51 AM
Title: Re: Yangzab Shitro
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Can you send me the link? I have received this empowerment from Ontul Rinpoche. I looked in the eight volume collection of Yangzab texts, but did not see a combined shitro sadhana.

ratna said:
Here's the link: https://gardrolma.org/product/the-concise-yangzab-shitro/
It's a short sadhana by Lho Nuden Dorje from his Utpala'i phreng ba, a compilation of short Sarma and Nyingma sadhanas.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, so comparatively modern, which is why it does not show up in the earlier collections.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 19th, 2021 at 9:46 PM
Title: Re: Combining Bodhisattva Precepts / Vows
Content:
Dharmasherab said:
I have seen that there are a few sources of Bodhisattva Vows/Precepts. While there is significant overlap I also did notice that there are some differences between the sets of Precepts/Vows. So for my own practice I thought of combining them and then making effort to follow them in their entirety so that I dont miss out on anything (meaning that I wont be committing Bodhisattva offenses without knowing them).

I am sure that there is nothing wrong with this.

Malcolm wrote:
If someone has received the Madhyamaka tradition of Bodhisattva vows, that is sufficient. There is no need to mix them with the Yogacara system. But of course, one can observe both traditions, since they are not in contradiction.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 19th, 2021 at 8:56 PM
Title: Re: Yangzab Shitro
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is no single Yangzab Zhitro practice. That is not how it works.

There is an outer, inner, and secret peaceful deity sadhana, and an outer, inner, and secret wrathful deity sadhana.

Also the mantras are not the same as the Zhitro everyone is familiar from the Karma Lingpa, etc.

There is a manual on how to combine the mandalas in order to give the empowerment.

Danny said:
Agree with Malcolm on this.
There’s phowas related to 3 kayas, as for the 100 peaceful wrathful vajrasattva shitro, reading karma
Lingpas termas would be beneficial in general, but practice  and lineage specific concerns,
(If that’s your thing) your gonna have to squeeze the empowerer for clarity.

lelopa said:
Ok, but we received a single shitro-practice which doesn't exist.

Malcolm wrote:
Can you send me the link? I have received this empowerment from Ontul Rinpoche. I looked in the eight volume collection of Yangzab texts, but did not see a combined shitro sadhana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 19th, 2021 at 8:48 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Aemilius said:
Yugas exist in Hindu (and Theosophical) scriptures and theory, in Buddhism we have different kalpas.


Malcolm wrote:
We also have the four yugas.

Aemilius said:
I haven't seen the yugas in a Buddhist Sutra or an Abhidharma text,

Malcolm wrote:
See my reply above. I posted the names of a sutra which contains the Kali Yuga, as well as some tantras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 18th, 2021 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: Self Defense
Content:



Johnny Dangerous said:
Additionally, when people have a one-dimensional view of what martial arts and combat sports due to a lack of knowledge and/or experience with it, their critique of it is bound to be limited, at best.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 18th, 2021 at 2:21 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:



kirtu said:
No, there is real suppressed opposition in two of these countries for sure.  In one of them opposition is severely throttled  In the other people are declared not to be people anymore and sent to concentration camps and can be used as targets on a firing range (really).  So there is a continuum and there are degrees of support but in two of them this is completely irrelevant, in one it is mostly irrelevant and in the other it is also mostly irrelevant but does have the possibility of some change at the ballot box.


Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is never irrelevant. History shows us that oppressive regimes like North Korea have limited lifespans. In fact, NK's longevity owes a great deal to the posture of the US towards it and China's use of it as a buffer state (which NK resents).

But we have examples of South Africa where the people rose up, and deposed the regime there. Why? Because there were not sufficient numbers of whites to continue the system of apartheid, and also the whites were turning against it as well.

When governments use systematic violence against their own people, even if they manage to last 50 or 100 hundred years, eventually the people will rise up against them. History shows this time and again.

kirtu said:
It is mostly or completely irrelevant when the lifetime of people and the span of oppression overlap.  Oppressive regimes have limited lifespans.  The US has a lifespan of 244 years and was and still is oppressive in varying degrees to some of it's population.

Malcolm wrote:
Oppressions which are being dealt with, slowly and systematically. But most people in the US consent to being governed by our government.


kirtu said:
We could examine this historically and we would have to conclude that many people experienced complete oppression during the entirety of their lifetime and this went on for generations.  In the case of the United States it eased up on oppression at multiple points in it's history and sometimes clamped down again later.  It's historical thrust is toward democracy , which is likely to happen at some point after my death.  Nonetheless it is not guaranteed.

Malcolm wrote:
No, but it argues against your case.

kirtu said:
In the case of the other countries, two of them also experienced differences in their oppression.  In the case of North Korea, a change in government/society could be rapid but this can also not be predicted.

But this is the issue wrt climate change: forces in the US, Russia and China are blocking any effective action to addressing climate change at the exact moment in history that the problem was identified and it's seriousness was also recognized.  So if all three nations change in 50 years, it will be much too late to address the problem (and it's already 40 years later than it should have been).

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, its already too late.

kirtu said:
So, yes, 50-100 years generally wipes away the current oppression - but this is 2 to 3 full generations of people enmeshed in direct oppression - and particular moments in history matter much more than others.  1980-2100 are CRUCIAL in moving the planet to a livable future trajectory and we aren't responding to the challenge.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the changes we have wrought on our environment are irreversible, sans a complete and global reorientation around energy use, food supply, access to technology, etc. We have to figure out how to live in this altered environment we have created. And as it stands, authoritarianism will increase over the short term, not decrease, because people in authoritarian countries prefer it to the uncertainties of democracy. Russia and China both prove this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 18th, 2021 at 2:00 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Nemo said:
Isn't it they do until the day they don't? The problem is climate change, nukes and autonomous drones make the fall of the US empire possibly an extinction event. I'm thinking more Easter Island if you guys don't hurry up and die/reform/become socialist

Malcolm wrote:
Socialism in the US is not going to solve climate change. Socialism is a system of capital relations. No, really, the only thing that will "save" the climate is a major human die-off event, a reduction of the world population of humans to one billion people, circa 1800, or death or absence of reproduction of 85 out of 100 people and the maintaining that as the ideal world population.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 18th, 2021 at 12:42 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
Nemo said:
The problem is when a Bernie Sanders shows up in a colony the CIA kills him or puts him in prison.

Malcolm wrote:
Waxing a little paranoid there? Bernie Sanders is alive and well in the US Senate, not a blacksite in Egypt.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 18th, 2021 at 12:07 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:



kirtu said:
It is so, even though Aryadeva is also correct.

It is factual that in those countries and in several others a minority can rule - in one of those countries the majority vote can be overturned (as happened five times) - in the worst of the list (USA, Russia, Mainland China, North Korea)  a single family seems to be propped up as the ruler although assassination of other members of that family has happened, in the second country on the list autocratic rule has been the norm since at least 1450 and in the 3rd country on the list, while they have had some input from the people historically they mostly ignored and oppressed most input outside the immediate Imperial and late Nationalist Communist system (and of course purged people within that system).  These countries form a continuum but are nonetheless representative of places where monarchs in some form can or do rule without the consent of the governed.

Malcolm wrote:
All of the citizens of all of these countries, apart from dissidents, cooperate with and support their governments.

kirtu said:
No, there is real suppressed opposition in two of these countries for sure.  In one of them opposition is severely throttled  In the other people are declared not to be people anymore and sent to concentration camps and can be used as targets on a firing range (really).  So there is a continuum and there are degrees of support but in two of them this is completely irrelevant, in one it is mostly irrelevant and in the other it is also mostly irrelevant but does have the possibility of some change at the ballot box.


Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is never irrelevant. History shows us that oppressive regimes like North Korea have limited lifespans. In fact, NK's longevity owes a great deal to the posture of the US towards it and China's use of it as a buffer state (which NK resents).

But we have examples of South Africa where the people rose up, and deposed the regime there. Why? Because there were not sufficient numbers of whites to continue the system of apartheid, and also the whites were turning against it as well.

When governments use systematic violence against their own people, even if they manage to last 50 or 100 hundred years, eventually the people will rise up against them. History shows this time and again.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:



kirtu said:
Monarchs rule without the consent of the governed in any non-democratic system:

Malcolm wrote:
This is not so. All kings derive their power from the people and are fools because they forget this, according to Aryadeva.

kirtu said:
It is so, even though Aryadeva is also correct.

It is factual that in those countries and in several others a minority can rule - in one of those countries the majority vote can be overturned (as happened five times) - in the worst of the list (USA, Russia, Mainland China, North Korea)  a single family seems to be propped up as the ruler although assassination of other members of that family has happened, in the second country on the list autocratic rule has been the norm since at least 1450 and in the 3rd country on the list, while they have had some input from the people historically they mostly ignored and oppressed most input outside the immediate Imperial and late Nationalist Communist system (and of course purged people within that system).  These countries form a continuum but are nonetheless representative of places where monarchs in some form can or do rule without the consent of the governed.

Malcolm wrote:
All of the citizens of all of these countries, apart from dissidents, cooperate with and support their governments.


kirtu said:
In most of those countries a breaking point may come under some as yet unknown situation and the governed rise up in some way.  However these countries have been functioning for hundreds or thousands of years like this so I wouldn't hold my breath (the youngest one for 244 years).

Malcolm wrote:
The fact that the governed do not rise up merely supports my point. The American Revolution was an anomaly. Most people in the Colonies, outside of New England, either did not support the Army of the Revolution or were indifferent to British rule. That war was largely fought by New Englanders with officers largely drawn from the pool of officers who were in the British Army during the French-Indian War, like Washington.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
Nemo said:
On a good day I hope the core of the empire crumbles quietly, but that seems unlikely.

Malcolm wrote:
Empires collapse slowly. The rapid collapse of the Aztecs and Incas were anomalies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 10:07 PM
Title: Re: Self Defense
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
How presumptuous it is for us western Buddhists to sit upon the throne of one’s own opinions and declare what is or is not appropriate for someone else whose cultural norms may be completely different from one’s own.

Malcolm wrote:
Cultural relativism? Where does that end?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 9:49 PM
Title: Re: Self Defense
Content:
Ardha said:
The point, ultimately, is that I don't think watching or enjoying such sports is in line with being a Buddhist or the path...

Malcolm wrote:
Agreed. I don't watch boxing, etc.

But I enjoy watching fantasy martial arts, even gritty, bloody stuff like Warrior.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 9:31 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Aemilius said:
Yugas exist in Hindu (and Theosophical) scriptures and theory, in Buddhism we have different kalpas.


Malcolm wrote:
We also have the four yugas.
This is principally mentioned in the Saddharmasmṛty-upasthāna sūtra, and tantra such as the Heruka-abhyudaya.

It is mentioned numerous times Indian Buddhist literature, such as the Bodhisattvāvadānakalpalatā, Buddhacarita, Saṃskṛtāsaṃskṛtaviniścaya, and several tantric commentaries, especially on the Kālacakra, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 8:30 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Nemo said:
The system created by frightened monarchs...

Malcolm wrote:
Monarchs do not rule without the consent of the governed.

kirtu said:
Monarchs rule without the consent of the governed in any non-democratic system:

Malcolm wrote:
This is not so. All kings derive their power from the people and are fools because they forget this, according to Aryadeva.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 8:28 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Aemilius said:
Yugas exist in Hindu (and Theosophical) scriptures and theory, in Buddhism we have different kalpas.


Malcolm wrote:
We also have the four yugas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 4:44 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Nemo said:
The system created by frightened monarchs...

Malcolm wrote:
Monarchs do not rule without the consent of the governed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
In Buddhist Sutras and Teachings has it been unheard of on Earth? There is an understanding thst we are in Kali-Yuga, what about Satya Yuga?

Malcolm wrote:
In the Satya Yuga there is no need for the Dharma, so it really does not appear. The Dharma only appears when there is sufficient suffering among human beings to warrant the advent of a buddha.

Könchok Chödrak said:
I'm thinking, isn't the Dharma an active thing? Are there not many Buddhas in Satya Yuga, and that is why it is so flourishing? Yes, the Dharma is a cure for an ailment, but Buddha also means life. Amida Buddha's Pure Land, for example, has no suffering, but there must be Dharma there! And Satya Yuga is a cyclical Yuga, it comes, stays for some long time, but then there has been a degradation again, so there are these cycles. The living beings in Satya Yuga must meditate into the future to see their future births and see how they can help suffering humanity, or at least prepare themselves for lives in the subsequent Yugas if they are Bodhisattvas, willing to be reborn to help the suffering. I have heard Thich Nhat Hanh say in a Dharma talk that there must even be suffering in the Spiritual World [a World beyond this material manifestation], but I personally believe that there can be Dharma without suffering, and that Buddhas can create Pure Lands anywhere. Despite decline in society, we must understand that decline is not perpetual due to hopelessness. There will be a renewal again, because of the Flower of the Dharma, because of Buddhists like you. You may be one, but there are many like you! And what are you doing if not making the world a better place and only that? Eventually, there will be so many such people that humanity will begin to solve it's problems, but sadly there may be a great decline before that happens, yet, such a sadness is not set in stone. It is possible for Earth's climate to be saved if people work together. What is the reason and meaning for Buddhahood? If everyone was a Buddha there wouldn't even be a Saha world, and the Earth itself would be liberated from any burden!

Malcolm wrote:
I did not say there was no Dharma in Sukhavati. I said that during a golden age, on this world, there is no advent of a buddha. You seem to have forgotten that the Buddha himself predicted the decline and disappearance of his Dharma, and the next buddha will be Maitreya, but not for millions of years.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 1:18 AM
Title: Re: Aparimitāyur­jñāna­hṛdaya­dhāraṇī
Content:
Marenz said:
Does anyone know if this requires lung to recite?

Malcolm wrote:
It does not.

Losal Samten said:
Padma-Kriya is fine in general?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddha and Padma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 12:43 AM
Title: Re: Aparimitāyur­jñāna­hṛdaya­dhāraṇī
Content:
Marenz said:
Does anyone know if this requires lung to recite?

Malcolm wrote:
It does not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 12:42 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
Nemo said:
Perhaps the system itself is the problem?

Malcolm wrote:
The system is inseparable from its members. So the members are the problem, not the system.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 17th, 2021 at 12:30 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
In Buddhist Sutras and Teachings has it been unheard of on Earth? There is an understanding thst we are in Kali-Yuga, what about Satya Yuga?

Malcolm wrote:
In the Satya Yuga there is no need for the Dharma, so it really does not appear. The Dharma only appears when there is sufficient suffering among human beings to warrant the advent of a buddha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 16th, 2021 at 11:39 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Könchok Chödrak said:
Well there are certainly Buddhist tales from the Sutras of Pure Lands where Buddhas lived for kalpas,

Malcolm wrote:
You don't live in Sulhavati. This Sahaloka is Śākyamuni;'s buddhafield, and it is not a pure buddhafield [cue smart aleck response from someone about passage in Vimalakīrti Nirdeśa]

Könchok Chödrak said:
and had Pure Lands where everything was mellow for the world, and seemingly for the environment

Malcolm wrote:
You don't live in one of those.

Könchok Chödrak said:
. If you believe in the Buddhist Sutras and where they come from, then maybe if we work together as Buddhists we can create a good world again. I mean, what is the purpose of Buddhism, and who can steward this world?

Malcolm wrote:
There isn't a single sūtra where the Buddha promises if we just all work together as good Buddhists, we can make the world a better place. Not one.

Why do you think there are pure buddhafields like Sukhavati? The Sanskrit name for this world system is Sahaloka, the world that is hard to bear.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 16th, 2021 at 9:53 AM
Title: Re: Online Buddhist Education
Content:


Queequeg said:
It would be nice to see courses that start with absolute baby steps...

Malcolm wrote:
That’s what Tricycle and Lion’s Roar’s domain.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 16th, 2021 at 4:46 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:



Crazywisdom said:
It's the appearance of wisdoms which has all perfected qualities.

Malcolm wrote:
You mean those qualities are not complete if those wisdoms don't appear?

Crazywisdom said:
Not what I am saying.

Malcolm wrote:
Then what are you saying?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 16th, 2021 at 4:08 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:



Crazywisdom said:
It's the appearance of wisdoms which has all perfected qualities.

Malcolm wrote:
You mean those qualities are not complete if those wisdoms don't appear?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 16th, 2021 at 3:51 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:



Nemo said:
Rich people give you one party to vote for.
"This is a ruthless dictatorship. I am oppressed.
Rich people give you 2 parties to vote for.
"This is freedom. I have power over my destiny now. Thank you rich people."

Malcolm wrote:
At least they gave us a vote. In Canada, you don't get even that much. All you get to vote for is an MP. Your senate is picked by a representative of the Queen. I'll take our Presidential system over your Parliamentary system any day of the week.

Nemo said:
I make no claims of either being particularly democratic. It's almost like the system we live under was created by a freshly deposed aristocracy trying to quietly hold onto power and hoping we wouldn't notice. Do you think perhaps global warming and nuclear proliferation support this crazy hypothesis?

Malcolm wrote:
No. There is no evidence that human beings, beyond the level of hunter-gatherers, are capable of living in a civilization which is anything other than wholly destructive to their environment. And even hunter-gatherers can wreck an ecosystem pretty systematically. I am not saying we shouldn't try to escape this madness, but I don't see much hope. Political systems are not the solution.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 16th, 2021 at 2:26 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
Queequeg said:
Oh, Christ. Who is it? The Rothschilds? The Bilderberg Group? Oh, wait the Illuminati.

There's no plan. There's no one in charge. We're just stupid.

Nemo said:
Rich people give you one party to vote for.
"This is a ruthless dictatorship. I am oppressed.
Rich people give you 2 parties to vote for.
"This is freedom. I have power over my destiny now. Thank you rich people."

Malcolm wrote:
At least they gave us a vote. In Canada, you don't get even that much. All you get to vote for is an MP. Your senate is picked by a representative of the Queen. I'll take our Presidential system over your Parliamentary system any day of the week.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 16th, 2021 at 1:07 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:



bryandavis said:
Lopön Malcom,

Exhaustion of dhatmata is the unfolding of the 4th vision no? Treckcho begins at this juncture?

Malcolm wrote:
Trekcho is related to the basis. All phenomena have always been exhausted in the basis. For this reason, Trekcho starts with the exhaustion of dharmatā, since it is not related to appearances.

bryandavis said:
So with this explanation Trekcho is a primordial aspect or vidya of knowing the union of kayak/lhundrup before a cracked vase so to speak.

Malcolm wrote:
When practicing trekcho, one cannot find any phenomena to be exhausted. If one can find something to be exhausted, one is not practicing trekcho, and one will be unable to make any progress in thogal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 16th, 2021 at 12:17 AM
Title: Re: Can Samsara be Emptied? Should this motivate practice?
Content:
Virgo said:
Is there supposed to be a post from Malcolm in this thread just before tkp67's last post (the post before this one) which tkp67 made at » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:56 am (EST)? Because when I open this thread, I don't see it.

Virgo

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I said to our friend, tkp67 that aspirations, like dedications, made mindful of the three spheres, are inexhaustible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 14th, 2021 at 10:21 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Kim O'Hara said:
Here's a case-study on the transition for you. It's working well in Australia and that means it can work well for all the US except perhaps the biggest cities. https://reneweconomy.com.au/australias-big-fossil-fuel-generators-are-being-replaced-by-big-batteries/

Malcolm wrote:
In the case of the US, it’s not working very well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 14th, 2021 at 8:42 AM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Nāgārjuna's intent is not solely to reduce opponent arguments to absurdities. If this were all he was interested in, Nāgārjuna's Madhyamaka would have no value and would be mere sophistry.

Instead, Nāgārjuna's project is correct deviations from a proper understanding of dependent origination. This is made clear in the maṅgalaṃ of the MMK.

tobes said:
Indeed. And this is why it is wrong to say that Nagarjuna is not making assertions. This can be conflated with: not making assertions about ultimate reality.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, all Madhyamikas make all kinds of conventional assertions and—gasp—even use syllogisms. What they don’t do is make any ontological commitments.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 14th, 2021 at 5:21 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:


Virgo said:
Well at least they don't make you use that app that sends them location data from your phone.

Malcolm wrote:
They won't need that app once they install nanotrackers in everyone through the vaccine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 14th, 2021 at 4:36 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
a bonobo grabbed a chipmunk that had run into its containment area and big its head off.

Malcolm wrote:
snacktime.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 14th, 2021 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
I am pretty skeptical about nukes.

Virgo said:
Interesting.  Even the newer nuclear technology  he mentions in the video (for which the R&D has largely been cut since the Clinton administration)?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, in general. In my opinion, there is no safe nuclear technology.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 14th, 2021 at 1:59 AM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
The emptiness itself is a product, as a concept, of causes and effects so it is also emptiness of cause and effect.

Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness is not a product. Emptiness itself is uncompounded, like space.

Vajrasvapna said:
The concept of emptiness is a product of cause and effect.

Malcolm wrote:
The concept of emptiness is not emptiness, per se. It is termed the "categorized ultimate," and as such, is only a conventional truth. So that emptiness is not the emptiness realized by āryas.

Vajrasvapna said:
And my answer is in relation to the teaching of Nagarjuna. In the Nagarjuna method, the idea is only to reduce to the absurd, as a method of argumentation, instead of making positive statements about the absolute nature. So all beings and phenomena neither exist nor exist, neither both nor one of the two.

Malcolm wrote:
Nāgārjuna's intent is not solely to reduce opponent arguments to absurdities. If this were all he was interested in, Nāgārjuna's Madhyamaka would have no value and would be mere sophistry.

Instead, Nāgārjuna's project is correct deviations from a proper understanding of dependent origination. This is made clear in the maṅgalaṃ of the MMK.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 14th, 2021 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
Virgo said:
This a great video with some good comments by James Hansen on nuclear power, renewables, carbon fees, and some other topics.  May all beings be happy.



Virgo

Malcolm wrote:
I am pretty skeptical about nukes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 14th, 2021 at 12:22 AM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
The emptiness itself is a product, as a concept, of causes and effects so it is also emptiness of cause and effect.

Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness is not a product. Emptiness itself is uncompounded, like space.

jeremyIfisher said:
Are you not constructing a positive definition of Emptiness by describing it as being "like space"? If not, are you suggesting space has independent existence or "essence"?

Is the concept of space one with the senses and the aggregates, a product of sense and the aggregates or completely apart from sense and the aggregates?

If it is the former two then have you not taken a position opposite to what you have previously claimed?

If it is the latter then are you saying space has independent existence?

Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness, like space, does not arise. It’s a simile.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 14th, 2021 at 12:18 AM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
No, they don't. They understand emptiness to be a nonaffirming negation only.

jeremyIfisher said:
A few quotations to the contradictory:

Malcolm wrote:
I was referring to the Gelug point of view, where emptiness is solely a non-affirming negation of inherent existence, and that’s it. Citing Mipham and portions of Dzogchen tantras is irrelevant.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 9:59 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth
Content:
clyde said:
It’s my understanding that all sentient beings directly experience the Primordial Clear Light at death and that the afflictions are ‘burned off’ (that is, the afflictions cannot survive the Primordial Clear Light) and therefore, the afflictions cannot be the cause of post-mortem rebirth.

GrapeLover said:
In such a case all beings would be liberated after a single life and there would be no need for a path

In the traditional view, ordinary beings remain essentially unconscious during the bardo of clear light and regain consciousness in the bardo of becoming. Their mindstream, karma and afflictions remain intact

clyde said:
Yes and no. The Bodhisattva Path is needed and noble because the Bodhisattva understands reality and can avoid rebirth, but chooses to return to a world of suffering with the intention to end all suffering for all sentient beings - here and now.

Malcolm wrote:
Only bodhisattvas above the seventh bhumi can avoid rebirth. That’s why those bhumis are called the “pure.” Bodhisattvas have no control over rebirth on the impure bhumis, other than the fact they never take birth in the three lower realms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 9:57 PM
Title: Re: Rebirth
Content:
clyde said:
No doubt an afflicted mind can experience the “so-called child luminosity” and that the afflictions (“throwing karma”?) drive moment-to-moment rebirth.

Malcolm wrote:
“Throwing karma” is responsible for propelling one into the next world. It has no function in this life.

You are mistaken about the mother and child luminosities. Mother luminosity is experienced at the moment of falling to sleep, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 9:20 PM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:


jeremyIfisher said:
He is demonstrating its nature through negation of wrong views. Whether this is an assertion is debatable - the Nyingma take your view that it isn't an assertion. The Gelug view it as assertion not through positive construction of an argument but a "double negation".

Malcolm wrote:
No, they don't. They understand emptiness to be a nonaffirming negation only.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
The emptiness itself is a product, as a concept, of causes and effects so it is also emptiness of cause and effect.

Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness is not a product. Emptiness itself is uncompounded, like space.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 9:17 PM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:



jeremyIfisher said:
Emptiness is also empty yes, but for it to be of any benefit there must be a means of understanding it.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that is the purpose of conventional truth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 10:03 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth
Content:
clyde said:
Is my understanding that all sentient beings directly experience the Primordial Clear Light at death wrong?

Is my understanding that the afflictions cannot exist with the Primordial Clear Light wrong?

Malcolm wrote:
As for your first question, yes, all beings experience so-called mother luminosity at the time of death. But if they have not practiced a path, so-called child luminosity, they will not recognize the mother, and so the mother and the child do not meet.

clyde said:
My point is that a sentient being not familiar with the “so-called child luminosity” is unprepared at death for the direct experience of the “so-called mother luminosity” and having no refuge is overwhelmed; while a practitioner familiar with the “so-called child luminosity” recognizes the “so-called mother luminosity” and may be able to maintain awareness for rebirth. As for your second question, the experience of luminosity itself is insufficient to eliminate afflictions. One has to recognize and remain in that luminosity.
While an experience of the “so-called child luminosity” is not sufficient to eliminate all afflictions, the direct experience of the “so-called mother luminosity” is not possible with afflictions. Luminosity is already the nature of your mind, so it is quite clear that luminosity does not eradicate afflictions. Only insight has that power.
Yes, luminosity is omnipresent, but direct experience isn’t.

Malcolm wrote:
You are mixing apples and oranges. Rebirth is specifically driven by so-called “throwing karma.”

And you are mistaken concerning the ability of afflicted minds to be able to directly experience mother luminosity, which is an experience free from extremes. One must be able to point this out to people with afflicted minds, otherwise there is no path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 4:16 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Queequeg said:
But what would I know about this stuff?

Malcolm wrote:
We could ask your wife, she knows where all the skeletons are buried.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 4:05 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Well, afflictions are what drive rebirth in samsara, even up the the seventh bodhisattva bhumi.


Sādhaka said:
Ah, then that’s why Arhats would—as I’ve seen claimed—start out on the Eighth Bhumi once they’re eventually roused by Bodhisattvas from their temporary Nirvana, that is because they have already eliminated the emotional afflictions; yet still have mental obscurations (?)

Malcolm wrote:
But they don't. They start at the beginning of the Mahāyāna path of accumulation, and it still takes them three incalculable eons to gather the two accumulations, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 3:06 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth
Content:
clyde said:
Is my understanding that all sentient beings directly experience the Primordial Clear Light at death wrong?

Is my understanding that the afflictions cannot exist with the Primordial Clear Light wrong?

Malcolm wrote:
As for your first question, yes, all beings experience so-called mother luminosity at the time of death. But if they have not practiced a path, so-called child luminosity, they will not recognize the mother, and so the mother and the child do not meet.

As for your second question, the experience of luminosity itself is insufficient to eliminate afflictions. One has to recognize and remain in that luminosity.

Luminosity is already the nature of your mind, so it is quite clear that luminosity does not eradicate afflictions. Only insight has that power.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 2:45 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth
Content:
clyde said:
It’s my understanding that all sentient beings directly experience the Primordial Clear Light at death and that the afflictions are ‘burned off’ (that is, the afflictions cannot survive the Primordial Clear Light) and therefore, the afflictions cannot be the cause of post-mortem rebirth.

Malcolm wrote:
Your understanding is incorrect. Where did you get this idea? Certainly not from any reliable Tibetan Buddhist text or teacher.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 2:13 AM
Title: Re: Rebirth
Content:
clyde said:
Could it be that we have post-mortem rebirth wrong? Backwards?

Could it be that upon death ordinary sentient beings directly experience the Primordial Clear Light and without the body as a ‘karmic anchor’ are overwhelmed and their consciousness is blown away?

Malcolm wrote:
No. Why? Well, afflictions are what drive rebirth in samsara, even up the the seventh bodhisattva bhumi.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 13th, 2021 at 12:18 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
End of an era:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 12th, 2021 at 10:50 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


Queequeg said:
When hillbillies realize they can power up their atvs with renewable sources, solar panels, wind turbine on the hill above their hollow, a little hydro electric turbine on the creek running behind their house, we will see the tipping point. As it is, republican ranchers are realizing all that land is good for wind farms, another source of income. The indications are that the tipping point is closer than farther. The only question is will it be enough?

Malcolm wrote:
Two more things that are killing the planet: bitcoin and indoor weed farms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 12th, 2021 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:
kirtu said:
Russia and China may yet come to their senses and restructure their energy production rapidly but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Malcolm wrote:
Russia won't, they are a petrol state. For them, global warming is a boon, since it opens up the Arctic Ocean for drilling.

China would like to, because 50 years of rapid industrialization has poisoned their country, to about where we were in 1960, with flammable rivers and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 12th, 2021 at 10:41 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
I think it would be very easy for Indians to be vegan. Apparently 95% of traditional Indian food is already vegan, according to Arvind the Animal Activist. So India could be an exception to this "veganism is for the first world" idea.

Malcolm wrote:
Indians are hardly vegan, and their cuisine shows a rich variety of dishes prepared with many kinds of meat. Even Indians who are vegetarian are lacto-vegetarians who eat substantial quantities of milk products.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 12th, 2021 at 10:18 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming
Content:


PeterC said:
We're *way* past the possibility of prevention. Mitigation to some degree is possible, but the real focus of the next half-century will be adaptation - humanity adapting to an increasingly hostile living environment.  For example, many countries will become substantially (at least economically) unviable as places for large populations to live.

Virgo said:
Humans can't really adapt to those conditions and maintain civil society.  In the beginning, yes, but a few decades out.. I doubt it very much.

Virgo

PeterC said:
Agree.  Some regions will largely shut down.  Others will become chronically overpopulated, unstable and autocratic.

Malcolm wrote:
Move north. Above the 45th parallel.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 12th, 2021 at 9:19 AM
Title: Re: Origins of Great Perfection, Trauma and Disocciation
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This persons understanding of the Dzogchen tradition is very superficial and incomplete, both in terms of its history and its meaning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 12th, 2021 at 5:28 AM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:
jeremyIfisher said:
Nagarjuna is refuting both existence and non-existence whilst asserting "reality" free from these extremes (i.e. emptiness).

Malcolm wrote:
No. Emptiness also is not real.

jeremyIfisher said:
What this shows is that "existence" is a limited of perception of reality rather than reality itself.

Malcolm wrote:
You can't show "reality" itself. There is no "reality" itself to show.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 12th, 2021 at 4:02 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
I'll again post this anarchist critique of veganism:

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-veganism-is-a-consumer-activity

Malcolm wrote:
Veganism = first world privilege, that is, dietary choices. Many people in the world have little choice in their diet, and given the choice, will always choose meat.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 12th, 2021 at 1:10 AM
Title: Re: Becoming a monastic
Content:



GrapeLover said:
Come to think of it, there is a secondary samaya not to stay among shravakas for more than seven days. Taking this literally and straightforwardly, it could seem to apply to this. No particular problem in terms of the bodhisattva vows as far as I’m aware though.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, Atisha changed his residence once a week to avoid this downfall.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 12th, 2021 at 12:24 AM
Title: Re: Terma practices in the Sakya school
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
The Gonpo Chamdral and the Karmanathas were received by Sachen from Mal Lotsawa, who in turn received the terma tradition from Lotsawa Rinchen Zangpo. So, no this was not some thing that entered Sakya later. It was in Sakya from earlhy 12th century, beginning with the third throne holder, Sachen Kunga Nyingpo.

Volan said:
They view these termas as mahayoga, anuyoga or atiyoga? How do they include these teachings into the school's tantric framework?  Sakya Pandita Kunga Gyaltshen was famous for criticizing Dzogchen and as far as i know,

Malcolm wrote:
The eight deity Mahakala tradition is rooted in mahayoga.

Sapan lightly criticized some perspectives about Dzogchen in Three Vows, but in Illuminating the Intent of the Muni, he recognizes Atiyoga as the pinnacle of the nine vehicles, indicating that his criticism of the nine yānas was limited to claims about the nine yānas having different views.

Volan said:
these termas from Nyang that, as you have mentioned are practiced in the Sakya tradition since the 14th century, are associated with the nine yana Nyingma system and this Guru Drakpo might be associated with Dzogchen. Doesn`t that contradict the views of the earlier patriarch?

Malcolm wrote:
The Sakya masters did not reject Dzogchen. They rejected certain interpretations of Dzogchen. At the present time, His Holiness Sakya Trichen, His Holiness Sakya Trizen, all accept and teach cycles related to Dzogchen, like the King's Tradition of Avalokiteśvara from the Mani Kabum, Chime Phagma Nyingthig, The Termas of Apaṃ Terton, etc. Not only this, but the Nyangral Guru Dragmar is included in the Collection Of All Sādhanas, along with some other termas, like the Lama Gongdu, also critized by Chak Lotsawa. But Chak Lotsawa also criticized Chod and Zhijey, both of which are accepted systems now in all schools.
Finally, the Khon Brothers did not "stop" the Nyingma lineage. That's ridiculous and offensive. In fact, the reading transmission for the five early Dzogchen lungs of Vairocana was preserved by Khon Konchog Gyalpo and passed on by him.
One of the gurus of Khon Konchog Gyalpo was Tanak Gö Lotsāwa , who transmitted the Guhyasamaja cycle to him. Je Tsonghkapa mentions him as one of the three main figures in transmitting Guhyasamaja in Tibet (the other two are Lhodrak Marpa and Rinchen Sangpo).  Gö Lotsāwa was famous for critising the authenticity of some of the Nyingma tantras and Sakya Pandita also admitted that there are a lot of fabricated tantras in nyingma ( "Reply to the Translator from Chak" in the "A Clear Differentiation of the Three Codes"). Gorampa includes the following nyingma tantras that were composed by Tibetans: Kun byed rgyal po; the mDo dgongs 'dus; the Zhi khro sgyu 'phrul; the Lha mo'i skyis rgyud; the Bam ril thod mkhm; the sNang brgyad, the Las dge sdig bstan pa, and others. You can see the famous dzogchen tantra in that list.
Yes, Go Lotsawa was also famous for being extremely jealous of Drokmi and criticizing him harshly, even though Drokmi was by far the better translator, so they say. Having read Go's text, it is not a very impressive critique, and is not supported by the Gongma. For example, Go claims that Ma Rinchen Chok composed the Guhyagarbha, but Jetsun Drakpa Gyaltsen defends its authenticity. Go accuses Nubchen of forging the five lungs of Vairocana, but we know that Khon Konchok Gyalpo was instrumental in passing the transmission of these texts onward, and texts like the Cuckook of Vidyā are found in Dunhuang. Sapan mentions that he received Dzogchen teachings, and one of his most important students, Gyalwa Yangonpa, was famed for claiming his realization came from Dzogchen.

The Gelukpas accept the Tārā Tantra, whose authenticity is disputed by Ngorchen. Kalacakra was rejected by Rendawa. The Nyingmapas such as Rokben were skeptical of the mother tantras with their new-fangeled cakras and nadis, and so on.
Further, you do realize that the Nyingma Shri Heruka (aka Yangdak) and Hevajra are the same deity, correct?
With the same iconography, mantras, sadhanas,etc?
The retinue is the same, but this was stated by HH Sakya Trichen when I first received the Hevajra Empowerment from him.
And, as evidence of the respect with which the Terton Nyangral was held, the Indian Paṇḍita, Śakya Shribhadra, conducted the funerary arrangments for Nyangral.
You have mentioned that Tsangnyon Heruka cannot be trusted for details, have to say that modern scholars view the Terton Nyangral as one of the biggest fabricators of the Tibetan history.
That's an exaggeration. But in any case, Nyang's history was one of the first of its kind in Tibet, it has its deficits, but then, so do all pre-modern Tibetan accounts of the imperial period.


BTW, the first work in the Lhasa edition of Tsongkhapa's collected works is a work on Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 11th, 2021 at 9:45 PM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
Passing By said:
Should have added, from the POV of the highest capacity people. After all, cig carwa don't actually spend ages in formal thogal per se if the accounts are to be believed

Crazywisdom said:
I don't know what Bonpos say but thogal visions are not tye same as ordinary experiences. The former are wisdom appearing whereas the latter are samsaric.  The one taste sameness etc is sort of discarded and wisdom appearances given precedence because of the swiftness of the path.

Passing By said:
They say the same thing actually. About the need to purify external appearances through thogal etc.

But then I have no idea where cig carwas fit in. They don't actually carry out the yogic exercise of thogal so do they just instantly wind up in the 4th vision or are they basically in trekcho 24/7...?

Malcolm wrote:
Trekcho starts with the exhaustion of dharmata, that’s the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 11th, 2021 at 8:27 PM
Title: Re: Milarepa (split topic)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
...Dzogchen comes from India...

yagmort said:
Malcolm, i must be confusing things but didn't you say something to the effect that dzogchen surfaced in tibet circa 11th century with creation of 17 tantras ? could you elaborate on indian origins of dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
The 17 tantras were revealed in the early 11th century, but the sems sde and klong sde lineages are Kama, not terma, and date from their introduction to Tibet in the mid 8th century by Vairocana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 11th, 2021 at 6:04 AM
Title: Re: The three vows, and how there observed together across Schools.
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
In your opinion are his criticisms warranted towards the other Schools? Do you feel he represents the Tantras as understood by the Indian Panditas faithfully?

Malcolm wrote:
He represents a specific view of a certain set of Indian Panditas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 11th, 2021 at 5:22 AM
Title: Re: The three vows, and how there observed together across Schools.
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
I’m wondering if reading Sakya Pandita’s a clear differentiation of the three vows would help give me a clearer picture?

Malcolm wrote:
Probably not. But it is one of the great works of Tibetan Buddhism, both for its incisive critiques and for its wit and humor.

The Mantra Mongoose said:
Interesting, I always wanted to read his works ,because of how faithful he is said to be to the Tantras and there practice. From the little I’ve read on him I find myself aligning with the way he exegetes the Indian masters.

Malcolm wrote:
He's pretty rough on Kadampas, Kagyus, and Nyingmapas in this text.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 11th, 2021 at 5:21 AM
Title: Re: Milarepa (split from: Are there tertons at Gelug School?)
Content:
dzoki said:
Just to add, the idea of terma is not exclusive to Nyingma lineage...

Malcolm wrote:
It is not even exclusive to Tibetan Buddhism. All Mahāyāna scriptures, sūtras and tantras are termas by definition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 11th, 2021 at 4:24 AM
Title: Re: Milarepa (split topic)
Content:
dzoki said:
Also Gamgpopa quotes dzogchen teachings in his recorded (by written notes) lectures to his students, so if Milarepa was of the opinion that dzogchen teachings were ineffective, I doubt that Gampopa would continue teaching them.

Malcolm wrote:
Not only this, but Gampopa himself sought out the teachings of Klong sde from Dzeng Dharmabodhi, with whom he exchanged teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 11th, 2021 at 4:01 AM
Title: Re: Looking for Bodhisattva Vows in Tibetan
Content:
Dorje Shedrub said:
Does anyone know where I can find the Bodhisattva Vows and or ceremony for giving the vows in Tibetan script?

Malcolm wrote:
You mean the one HHST gave yesterday?

I am not sure of the text he used.

Dorje Shedrub said:
Lama Lena gave them on Sunday to a private group. She was just asking for a copy in Tibetan as she misplaced hers. I can't find any online in Tibetan. Do you know where I might find a copy of the vows in Tibetan script?

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.tbrc.org/#library_work_ViewByOutline-O1GS601137712%7CW23703

https://www.tbrc.org/#library_work_ViewByOutline-O1GS601137713%7CW23703

This is Candragomin's text on the bodhisattva vows.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 11th, 2021 at 1:55 AM
Title: Re: Sanskrit term prajñājīvaka (shes rab kyis ʼtsho ba)
Content:
sphairos said:
Hello everyone, I am looking for usages and contexts of the terms prajñājīva, prajñājīvaka, prajñājīvika, Tibetan shes rab kyis ʼtsho and shes rab kyis ʼtsho ba

Malcolm wrote:
The term is defined in the Udānavargavivarana:

།ཤེས་རབ་ཀྱིས་འཚོ་བ་ཞེས་བྱ་བ་ལ། ཤེས་རབ་ནི་དེ་བཞིན་ཉིད་ཤེས་པ་སྟེ། ངེས་འཚོ་བ་ནི་འཚོ་བ་བཞིན་དུ་གང་ལ་ཡོད་པ་དེའོ།

Vasubandhu's Sūtrālaṃkāra commentary gives:

།ཤེས་རབ་འཚོ་བ་སྟོན་པ་སྟེ། །ཞེས་བྱ་བ་ལ། ཤེས་རབ་ཀྱིས་འཚོ་བར་བྱེད་་པ་དང་སེམས་ཅན་ལ་ཆོས་སྟོན་པར་བྱེད་པ་གཉིས་ནི་ལས་ཡིན་ཏེ། འཇིག་རྟེན་ན་ཚོང་དང་ཞིང་རྨོད་པ་ལ་སོགས་པས་ལུས་རྣག་ཅན་གྱི་སྲོག་མི་འཆད་པར་འཚོ་བར་བྱེད་མོད་ཀྱི། དེ་དག་ལས་ཤེས་རབ་ཀྱིས་འཚོ་བ་ནི་འཚོ་བ་བླ་ན་མེད་པ་སྟེ། བླ་ན་མེད་པའི་བྱང་ཆུབ་ཏུ་འཚང་རྒྱ་བའི་དགེ་བའི་རྩ་བའི་སྲོག་མི་འཆད་པར་བྱེད་པའི་ཕྱིར་རོ།

It's pretty straightforward.

sphairos said:
But the definition doesn't say anything which is not already clear from the term itself. Prajñā as a knowledge of tathatā doesn't explain anything.

Vasubandhu's bhāṣya I already quoted in full. The Tibetan is only slightly different.

Malcolm wrote:
You can search the term at BDRC, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 11th, 2021 at 1:28 AM
Title: Re: The three vows, and how there observed together across Schools.
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
I’m wondering if reading Sakya Pandita’s a clear differentiation of the three vows would help give me a clearer picture?

Malcolm wrote:
Probably not. But it is one of the great works of Tibetan Buddhism, both for its incisive critiques and for its wit and humor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 11th, 2021 at 1:27 AM
Title: Re: The three vows, and how there observed together across Schools.
Content:



The Mantra Mongoose said:
I actually have read through Kongtrul’s ethics. He does explain the three vows pretty throughly, but he really doesn’t talk about how there differentiated across the different schools.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, he does. He summarizes and reconciles the apparent contradictions between all four schools at the conclusion of his discussion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 11:34 PM
Title: Re: Sanskrit term prajñājīvaka (shes rab kyis ʼtsho ba)
Content:
sphairos said:
Hello everyone, I am looking for usages and contexts of the terms prajñājīva, prajñājīvaka, prajñājīvika, Tibetan shes rab kyis ʼtsho and shes rab kyis ʼtsho ba

Malcolm wrote:
The term is defined in the Udānavargavivarana:

།ཤེས་རབ་ཀྱིས་འཚོ་བ་ཞེས་བྱ་བ་ལ། ཤེས་རབ་ནི་དེ་བཞིན་ཉིད་ཤེས་པ་སྟེ། ངེས་འཚོ་བ་ནི་འཚོ་བ་བཞིན་དུ་གང་ལ་ཡོད་པ་དེའོ།

Vasubandhu's Sūtrālaṃkāra commentary gives:

།ཤེས་རབ་འཚོ་བ་སྟོན་པ་སྟེ། །ཞེས་བྱ་བ་ལ། ཤེས་རབ་ཀྱིས་འཚོ་བར་བྱེད་་པ་དང་སེམས་ཅན་ལ་ཆོས་སྟོན་པར་བྱེད་པ་གཉིས་ནི་ལས་ཡིན་ཏེ། འཇིག་རྟེན་ན་ཚོང་དང་ཞིང་རྨོད་པ་ལ་སོགས་པས་ལུས་རྣག་ཅན་གྱི་སྲོག་མི་འཆད་པར་འཚོ་བར་བྱེད་མོད་ཀྱི། དེ་དག་ལས་ཤེས་རབ་ཀྱིས་འཚོ་བ་ནི་འཚོ་བ་བླ་ན་མེད་པ་སྟེ། བླ་ན་མེད་པའི་བྱང་ཆུབ་ཏུ་འཚང་རྒྱ་བའི་དགེ་བའི་རྩ་བའི་སྲོག་མི་འཆད་པར་བྱེད་པའི་ཕྱིར་རོ།

It's pretty straightforward.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 11:26 PM
Title: Re: Looking for Bodhisattva Vows in Tibetan
Content:
Dorje Shedrub said:
Does anyone know where I can find the Bodhisattva Vows and or ceremony for giving the vows in Tibetan script?

Malcolm wrote:
You mean the one HHST gave yesterday?

I am not sure of the text he used.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 8:27 PM
Title: Re: The three vows, and how there observed together across Schools.
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
Hello all,

I wanted to ask if there is there a resource that can Compare and contrast how the different Tibetan Schools understand how to observe the three sets of vows in daily life? If there isn’t one resource out there could anyone give me a quick primer on how these schools differ? For example, do the Sakya and Gelug School differ on how vows take precedence in different situations? Does the emphasis in certain schools on the importance of sutra and ethics predispose them to favor the Pratimoska vows or Bodisattva vows over tantric vows in emphasis/practice?

I find studying the three sets of vows an interesting topic, but it seems there’s a lot of opinions about them and how there practiced. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhist Ethics by Kongtrul.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 8:26 PM
Title: Re: Milarepa (split topic)
Content:



SilenceMonkey said:
So the lama who taught him black magic was nyingma and not bon?

Malcolm wrote:
Mila had ten Nyingma Lamas before he met Marpa.

SilenceMonkey said:
Perhaps there are different versions of the biography of Milarepa? I read the version by Tsangnyon Heruka, translated by Andrew Quintman. And now I see that aside from his first lama with whom he studied reading, Milarepa also studied black magic with two lamas before meeting the dzogchen lama. And then he set off to meet Marpa. I'm wondering about the other six.

And when you say Milarepa transmitted the Nyingmapa practices he himself was expert in, are you referring to the black magic he learned?

Malcolm wrote:
Tsangnyon Heruka’s bio of Mila is basically a novel. It cannot be trusted for details.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 11:10 AM
Title: Re: Milarepa (split topic)
Content:


Volan said:
Met him accidentally or met him with purpose?

Malcolm wrote:
MIlarepa transmitted the Nyingmapa practices he himself was expert in.

SilenceMonkey said:
So the lama who taught him black magic was nyingma and not bon?

Malcolm wrote:
Mila had ten Nyingma Lamas before he met Marpa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 5:31 AM
Title: Re: Milarepa (split topic)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Milarepa was a Nyingma practitioner until he was 45, when he met Marpa.

Volan said:
Met him accidentally or met him with purpose?

Malcolm wrote:
MIlarepa transmitted the Nyingmapa practices he himself was expert in.

Volan said:
That's just not true at all.
Read the story about Geshe Drepa. This story is very widespread, you can hear this both from gelugpas and from kagyupas.
This is the example of kadampa tantric practices.

Malcolm wrote:
The Kadampas all had various kinds of backgrounds in general. So, one just cannot make a blanket declaration, "all they practiced was kriya tantra." It isn't accurate.




Volan said:
The Khon family have always maintained a close relationship with Nyingma terma tradition, right up to the present day. I ought to know. I am a Sakyapa by tradition. The Ngorpas are the ones who were principally hostile to the terma tradition. The Tsharpas, from Tsarchen onwards, were favorably disposed to the terma tradition.
Any examples from 11th-14th century?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, the Sakya protectors, Pañjaranatha Mahākala, Palden Lhamo, and the Karmanāthas, are all from combined gter ma and bka' ma lineages.

Then there are the revelations of Nyang, especially Guru Drakpo, as well as the King's Tradition of Avalokiteśvara from the Mani Kabum, which have been practiced in the Sakya tradition since the 14th century.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 5:00 AM
Title: Re: Blood Pills
Content:
namoh said:
Sorry, I messed up the reply a bit, here is my post. Mods, can you please delete my prior post?

Malcolm,
I once was given a gau with what the Lama referred to as “blood pills” inside. They were some kind of blessing pills made with the blood of several high lamas. Presumably this is a different kind of blood pill?
Thanks

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe. In this case, better ask someone else.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 2:56 AM
Title: Re: Yangzab Shitro
Content:
Wizard in the Forest said:
That's nice and all, but I don't have any of the Sādhanās and am looking for them if anyone has them that would be helpful.

Malcolm wrote:
Do you know Tibetan? As far as I know, they have not been translated. Here are the peaceful deities:

https://www.tbrc.org/#library_work_ViewByOutline-O23158C2O0068%7CW23158


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 2:36 AM
Title: Milarepa (split topic)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
[Mod note: Malcolm didn't start this topic, but this was the beginning of an off topic discussion in the Gelug subforum.]

Volan said:
Milarepa didn`t think that these terma practices are the proper methods to attain Enlightenment in this live.

Malcolm wrote:
Milarepa was a Nyingma practitioner until he was 45, when he met Marpa.

Volan said:
Kadampa followers of  Atisha focused mainly on simple kriya tantra.

Malcolm wrote:
That's just not true at all.

Volan said:
Sakyapas were originally nyingmapas themselves, but Khon brothers have decided to quit - only two nyingma kama practices were continued.

Malcolm wrote:
The Khon family have always maintained a close relationship with Nyingma terma tradition, right up to the present day. I ought to know. I am a Sakyapa by tradition. The Ngorpas are the ones who were principally hostile to the terma tradition. The Tsharpas, from Tsarchen onwards, were favorably disposed to the terma tradition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 2:00 AM
Title: Re: Blood Pills
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
What are “blood pills”?

Malcolm wrote:
Probably rakta for rakta and sman offerings.

PadmaVonSamba said:
I should mention that I was given them along with blessing pills, so I was wondering what’s the difference and why it is called a ‘blood pill’ ? It was made by my root lama who is passed on. It’s color is red.

Malcolm wrote:
As I said, it is probably a pill meant to be used for the blood offerings on your shrine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 1:53 AM
Title: Re: Blood Pills
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
What are “blood pills”?

Malcolm wrote:
Probably rakta for rakta and sman offerings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 10th, 2021 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: Yangzab Shitro
Content:



Cinnabar said:
There are also combined peaceful-wrathful sadhanas.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, but it is pretty clear that the peaceful and wrathful deities are intended, in general, to be practiced separately and systematically.

Cinnabar said:
Certainly that is true.

Malcolm wrote:
This is why I stated that really there really was no combined Zhitro sadhana in Yangzab, in general. It just isn't the same system as say the Karling Shitro, etc.

I've received this empowerment from Ontul Rinpoche. I've also received the lung for all the basic texts in Yangzab, again from Ontul Rinpoche.

There are other systems where this is the case as well, for example, in the Khandro Nyinthig, there is a five buddha family peaceful deitiy practice, but no wrathful deity practice, other than Yogini and Hayagriva. Yangzab is actually a branch of the Khandro Nyinthig.

In reality, the Yangzab Shitro is more like the Guhyagarbha system, where there are separate sadhanas for the peaceful deities and the wrathful deities.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: Yangzab Shitro
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is no single Yangzab Zhitro practice. That is not how it works.

There is an outer, inner, and secret peaceful deity sadhana, and an outer, inner, and secret wrathful deity sadhana.

Also the mantras are not the same as the Zhitro everyone is familiar from the Karma Lingpa, etc.

There is a manual on how to combine the mandalas in order to give the empowerment.

Cinnabar said:
There are also combined peaceful-wrathful sadhanas.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, but it is pretty clear that the peaceful and wrathful deities are intended, in general, to be practiced separately and systematically.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 11:05 PM
Title: Re: Yangzab Shitro
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is no single Yangzab Zhitro practice. That is not how it works.

There is an outer, inner, and secret peaceful deity sadhana, and an outer, inner, and secret wrathful deity sadhana.

Also the mantras are not the same as the Zhitro everyone is familiar from the Karma Lingpa, etc.

There is a manual on how to combine the mandalas in order to give the empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:



tkp67 said:
Your understand me well enough to illustrate that there is no definitive point you are making and if you had no interest in my personage and thought what I said was truly incomprehensible you would have no basis to comment.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, it is often the case that your posts are written in a way that make no sense in English. So I don't comment.


tkp67 said:
Intellectually brow beating is always clearly displayed for what it is. It is the type of behavior that becomes cancerous to a buddhist community. I have been kind enough to tolerate it.However the debt I have chosen to pay back is exposing it and eliminating it. Since my commitment to it and the lotus are inseparable it might be reasonable to take a deep breath and really consider what the purpose of your emotion here and now is really all about.

Malcolm wrote:
This is disingenuous. You want to communicate, but you do not take the time to communicate well or effectively. Instead you complain you are being brow-beaten. But frankly, it's your fault that your ideas are expressed in gibberish.

And then there are the exaggerations...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 10:45 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:


tkp67 said:
Interesting since most tech decision makers I traditionally know can program in assembler as if it is a higher level language and also consult, manage projects, develop business plans, market product, develop business relationships, create supply chains and the list goes on.

I don't know too many people that conform to the pesky duality the mind likes to project.

Malcolm wrote:
I have worked in fortune 500 companies. It really is not like that where the money is. "Decision makers" often can't even figure out email.




tkp67 said:
That’s not what the article specified.
Yes it does.
Microsoft formally started its work on a decentralized identity scheme in 2017 and has slowly built out the infrastructure over the past few years. The system is based on the Bitcoin blockchain and uses an open protocol called Sidetree to add records of transactions—in this case, identity verifications—to the blockchain. Microsoft says Azure Active Directory verifiable credentials uses a custom but still open source implementation of Sidetree called Identity Overlay Network. Organizations will be able to run their own ION “node” to verify and store identifiers for their members, like citizens, students, or employees.

Malcolm wrote:
And how does this integrate "the Microsoft server platform (which hosts SQL) on top of that pesky antiquated network layer. It also puts the pesky control/management issue back in the hands of the administrator."

It adds no value at all, apart from assigning a id to a person. It certainly does not integrate "the Microsoft server platform (which hosts SQL) on top of that pesky antiquated network layer. It also puts the pesky control/management issue back in the hands of the administrator.

tkp67 said:
"We know it’s not going to happen overnight, but we think this is going to be compelling to both users and organizations," Microsoft's Chik says. “It’s not like every organization wants to be the custodian of personal information, but they need it to verify information or do business transactions. It becomes a liability and responsibility, but this would be an appealing option to organizations that just need the data to be verified."

Malcolm wrote:
As I said, a solution in search of a problem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 9:15 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:


tkp67 said:
Points in the counter argument against the limits of blockchain. When I have contemporaries in the industry there isn't this constant comprehensive disconnect.

Malcolm wrote:
Everybody in tech is in sales, unless one is a grunt.


tkp67 said:
No it actually integrates the Microsoft server platform (which hosts SQL) on top of that pesky antiquated network layer. It also puts the pesky control/management issue back in the hands of the administrator.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s not what the article specified.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 7:02 AM
Title: Re: New Mahayanist convert!
Content:
greenobeeno said:
Would practicing the ten vows of Samantabhadra be an example of ways to cultivate Bodhicitta or is that something else?

Much Metta,

James

Malcolm wrote:
The aspiration of Samantabhadra contains the aspiration to attain buddhahood.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 6:59 AM
Title: Re: New Mahayanist convert!
Content:
greenobeeno said:
Thank you all as well. I am looking forward to browsing and enhancing the practice of visualization and meditation on Bodhisattvas. See you all around!

Malcolm wrote:
What you should be focusing on is developing your bodhicitta. That's the essence of Mahāyāna, not meditating on bodhisattvas.

For that, you should be reading texts like Śantideva's Bodhicaryāvatara, etc., texts which explain how to practice the bodhisattva path.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Can't those be the same thing though? I mean my sadhana sure says so.

Malcolm wrote:
The op is not a secret mantra practitioner, so, not applicable here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 6:08 AM
Title: Re: New Mahayanist convert!
Content:
greenobeeno said:
Thank you all as well. I am looking forward to browsing and enhancing the practice of visualization and meditation on Bodhisattvas. See you all around!

Malcolm wrote:
What you should be focusing on is developing your bodhicitta. That's the essence of Mahāyāna, not meditating on bodhisattvas.

For that, you should be reading texts like Śantideva's Bodhicaryāvatara, etc., texts which explain how to practice the bodhisattva path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 6:06 AM
Title: Re: Khandro Kunzang to Teach Kyed-pa Zhi Sat., Mar. 13
Content:
pemachophel said:
Khandro Kunzang Dechen Chodron will be teaching the Kyed-pa Zhi Mar. 13 via Zoom. This is about how to assess one's lung-ta (fortune), wang-thang (personal power), lu (bodily health), and sog (life-force) and how to remedy those if they are below parr. These teachings wer e imparted to Khandro Kunzang from Acharya Lama Dawa Chodrak, the great ngakpa. You can read more about this class at the link below as well as register for the class. Registration is necessary. There is also a link on that page for making an appropriate offering for the Dharma.

https://www.phurbathinleyling.org/programs/kyed-pa-zhi-skillful-methods-to-enhance-our-life-force-health-prosperity-and-success-an-online-teachings-with-khandro-kunzang/

Malcolm wrote:
Just get ChNN's book, the Four Developments. It is all explained right there in an easy to use manual, complete with all the diagrams one needs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 6:02 AM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:


tkp67 said:
Those processes are in and of themselves compounded phenomenon.

Malcolm wrote:
Since there no other kind of phenomena...

tkp67 said:
What drives them are subjective to desires which are in themselves expressed based on variables such as capacity, conditions and causes.

Malcolm wrote:
Tautology, i.e., anything compounded arises from causes and conditions.


tkp67 said:
Also technically what you are saying is if a houses foundation was made out of concrete 50 years ago houses today built on concrete are using 50 year old building code by proxy. Are you really saying that technology above the network layer hasn't evolved?

Malcolm wrote:
Essentially, it hasn't. Presentation layer is prettier, etc. But at base, it is all based on tech from the sixties and early 70's—tech that was developed in order to solve very specific problems.

tkp67 said:
Wouldn't the network layer have to be 10baseT still according to your convention? Doesn't the notion violate that wonderful law of impermanence as well?

Malcolm wrote:
I have fiber. But fiber optic technology is also 50 years old.

tkp67 said:
Technically speaking based on the verbosity of data that can be stored in a key alone...

Malcolm wrote:
"Verbosity" is not an adjective that can describe data. Perhaps you mean "volume."

tkp67 said:
... the lack of robust data stores are non consequential.

Malcolm wrote:
This clause in your sentence does not make any sense. What are you attempting to say? It looks like you are saying "the absence of robust data stores are of no consequence."

tkp67 said:
This is outside of any specific capacities of a given project.

Malcolm wrote:
What is "this"?

tkp67 said:
Such as:

https://www.wired.com/story/microsoft-decentralized-id-blockchain/
At its Ignite conference today, Microsoft announced that it will launch a public preview of its “Azure Active Directory verifiable credentials” this spring. Think of the platform as a digital wallet like Apple Pay or Google Pay, but for identifiers rather than credit cards. Microsoft is starting with things like university transcripts, diplomas, and professional credentials, letting you add them to its Microsoft Authenticator app along with two-factor codes. It's already testing the platform at Keio University in Tokyo, with the government of Flanders in Belgium, and with the United Kingdom's National Health Service.

Malcolm wrote:
This application of blockchain adds no value whatsoever, it's a solution in search of a problem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 4:06 AM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:
tkp67 said:
As an example the following statements deny the influence of market drivers that do not align with individual reason. Yet they do not refute the actual reality of what the industry providers are doing or the points I established. So one must assume they rely on the converse. Tech survives based on fitness.

Malcolm wrote:
Technology survives based on what business processes it assists. That's it.

Sometimes people invent technologies, and then try to fit them into a business process. For example, "hypertext" was supposed to revolutionize learning. It never went anywhere.

The internet has not actually gone beyond a markup language originally designed for laying out books, packet switching, and an operating system that is 51 years old (Unix).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 2:15 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:



Crazywisdom said:
So this means to say tregcho is thogal....? Bc if they are really inseparable there couldn't be subject object.

Malcolm wrote:
It means that there is no way around trekcho in Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 1:04 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:



Passing By said:
It's not as in your face as thogal but saying it's just words is selling it short no? It pertains to all one's experiences after all and is certainly more experiential than say, a philosophy textbook

Crazywisdom said:
Yes. Agreed. But try relating it in a few words.

Passing By said:
True dat. Meanwhile some fortunate people can get it when the guru simply displays a mirror or a crystal or some other symbolic example

For sure though trekcho is the harder of the two paths to understand

Malcolm wrote:
The Longsal Tantra sums it up rather nicely:

By maintaining the view of trekchö
one reaches the ultimate result, thögal.

And:

There are two in the trekchö:
neither a hair of meditation
nor a second of distraction. 

There are two in thögal:
light practice 
and dark practice.

And:

Since the supreme critical point of buddhahood through understanding
is this unsurpassed trekchö, 
that is the meaning of distinguishing mind and vidyā.

And:

For example, like a polished mirror
in which any kind of image is clear. 
if the meaning of trekchö is not clear, 
even though thögal arises, it will have subject and object.

And:

Without trekchö, there is no thögal. 
Without thögal, there is no trekchö.

And

Understanding that outer and inner phenomena have always been empty, 
trekchö and thögal are inseparable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 9th, 2021 at 12:30 AM
Title: Re: New Mahayanist convert!
Content:
greenobeeno said:
Thank you very much! It is reassuring to know my years spent in Theravada were not in vain for Mahayana. Keeping the five precepts is second-nature now due to that. I look forward to meditating with the Sutras as I read them and gaining greater understanding and kinship  on here

Malcolm wrote:
To be a Mahāyāni means renewing one's past life commitment to the bodhisattva path, no matter how long that takes, and recalling one's wish to attain full buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 8th, 2021 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nfts-explained-whats-driving-prices-for-lebron-james-and-kings-of-leon-digital-collectibles-11615205133?mod=hp_lista_pos5


Unknown said:
In 2017 and 2018, many poured money into cryptocurrency startups through a controversial fundraising method called initial coin offerings. Such booms preceded a rise in trading groups that manipulated the price of cryptocurrencies, causing losses for others.

The value of these digital collectibles depends on the assumption that someone else is willing to pay more for it than you did, analysts say, noting similarities between their big gains and recent social-media-fueled frenzies in meme stocks like GameStop and Koss that led to heavy losses for some individual investors.

“There are people who have been conditioned by cryptocurrencies to believe that just the fact that it can be owned makes it valuable,” said Jorge Stolfi, a computer science professor at Brazil’s State University of Campinas. “People just 100% believe that this thing has value, but in fact it doesn’t because there’s no way to get value out of it except for selling it to another investor.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 8th, 2021 at 10:36 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:
Unknown said:
For those lulled by today’s bull market, remember that you own a piece of paper. Low-yielding U.S. Treasury bills and bonds are safe because they are backed by the U.S. government, by cash flow of tax dollars and by the country’s assets (think land, not Fort Knox). Stocks are backed by expectations of future earnings, but if you overpay during periods of high expectations (like today), then your downside is huge. Crypto is backed simply by the faith of those who proclaim it is a store of value. Even art and exotic cars and silly NFT tokens are backed only by faith the wealthy will overpay for uniqueness. Faith becomes scarce when the selling starts.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-the-stock-boom-turns-to-bust-11615144869?mod=hp_opin_pos_1


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 8th, 2021 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:



Crazywisdom said:
Can be. I just find tregcho teachings often to be very wordy and tiresome. Not tregcho itself.  To my taste the Bindu yoga carries all the meaning in itself and one doesn't need to bother sounding fancy.

Malcolm wrote:
Trekcho is more subtle, thus harder to explain.

Crazywisdom said:
That's true. But then it follows it may be the harder path.

Malcolm wrote:
It is both the harder and the easier path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 8th, 2021 at 2:47 AM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:


jake said:
Ah, here is the common refrain, we're too academic or too conditioned, our minds are not open enough to fully grasp the nuance and complexity. Hear this from you a lot.

Malcolm wrote:
That's because we puny mortals cannot possibly comprehend the genius that is tkp67.

jake said:
Not sure what point you are trying to make by talking of the "opportunity cost of salaries" (mixing two thing here, btw) that we are wasting trying to force you to our perspective. What are you trying to say? that we are somehow wasting money talking to you?

Malcolm wrote:
He seems to be asserting that you are wasting the money of your companies by arguing with him on company time.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 8th, 2021 at 2:43 AM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:


tkp67 said:
Since the coin cap is now about 1.5 trillion it seems there is plenty of money for block chain to fuel its own disruptive purposes outside any one person's desires.

Malcolm wrote:
That capitalization is not money, it represents the unrealized gains of a piece of property, like your house.

Bitcoins are not money, they are property, according to the IRS. In other words, they are not legal tender. They don't even fit the definition of "coins."

https://www.globallegalinsights.com/practice-areas/blockchain-laws-and-regulations/usa

See section five, on taxes. One cannot use bitcoin to pay for groceries...well one can, but the tax reporting is onerous, as this web page notes.

tkp67 said:
That is outside any of the market Gartner predicts as emerging in the next few years. They predict it to be scalable by 2025.

Malcolm wrote:
https://101blockchains.com/disadvantages-of-blockchain/

None of these issues are overcome, and the privacy issues is, in particular, a major issue.

tkp67 said:
Application value is already in the tens of billions.

Malcolm wrote:
Not sure what you mean by "application value."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 7th, 2021 at 11:45 PM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
Archie2009 said:
Pardon me for being so bold, but "just words" sounds a bit dismissive, as if speaking from a lack of realization?

Crazywisdom said:
Can be. I just find tregcho teachings often to be very wordy and tiresome. Not tregcho itself.  To my taste the Bindu yoga carries all the meaning in itself and one doesn't need to bother sounding fancy.

Malcolm wrote:
Trekcho is more subtle, thus harder to explain.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 7th, 2021 at 11:18 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The conclusion: Blockchain, another one bytes the dust.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 7th, 2021 at 10:19 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:
Unknown said:
One major reason: As a means of processing transactions, blockchain-based systems are comparatively slow. Blockchain’s sluggish transaction speed is a major concern for enterprises that depend on high-performance legacy transaction processing systems.9 A lack of standards and interoperability between various blockchain platforms and solutions is another challenge.10 Unless blockchain technology can be readily connected to existing enterprise systems, it will be of little utility in large programs and initiatives. Legal and regulatory concerns around data privacy, intellectual property, enforceability of contracts, and choice of jurisdiction are inhibiting the technology’s adoption.11 And businesses are constrained by blockchain’s technical complexity, which limits the feasibility of implementing distributed ledger systems.

Malcolm wrote:
https://apnews.com/sponsored/?prx_t=wYAEAVYYzAniAPA


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 7th, 2021 at 5:45 AM
Title: Re: Do we know what Buddha taught? (split from GMO and...)
Content:
SonamTashi said:
Your entire premise is flawed.

Malcolm wrote:
We've tried to tell them this...but...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 7th, 2021 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: Do we know what Buddha taught? (split from GMO and...)
Content:
neander said:
and then comes down also to your own's integrity and honesty:

I follow a Zen / Nichiren path but I would never tell anyone that I have hard evidence that this is what Lord Buddha taught, this is 2021 CE.....

integrity and honesty that is so often lacking even in east and west monasteries and lay communities..

Malcolm wrote:
Your approach is grounded in materialism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 7th, 2021 at 12:45 AM
Title: Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials
Content:



tobes said:
I wouldn't underestimate this though. Dharma seeds can ripen in very unexpected ways, and they do not necessarily depend on the disciple being diligent, committed etc at the time of them being given/planted.

I owe a lot to this fact!

Malcolm wrote:
We all do, nevertheless, we have no idea when such traces ripen, and in most case, probably not in this life.

Adamantine said:
I’m not sure I completely agree with you here Malcolm, because in a sense it would imply that you had to have some level of realization to have a Guru. Yet we have to start somewhere... and on a related theme...I like this quote from the wandering Indian siddha, Bhagawan Nityananda, “The outer Guru is the one who points to the well, the inner Guru is the one who drinks from it.”
So let’s not conflate the outer Guru and the inner Guru. The outer one may point, and our inner one may not drink... yet the label Guru would still apply to the outer one, no?

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t think you read the whole exchange.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 11:49 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:
narhwal90 said:
storage is cheap and duplication provides redundancy which has its own value- otoh I wonder if the ledger size and computational overhead will limit the scaling.   It wouldn't suprise me if blockchain finds its niches where either the money is there to cover the scaling costs (ie finance), or where it can be small, and the world moves on.

PeterC said:
https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, also an environmental travesty.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 11:09 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:
tkp67 said:
services providers are third parties.

Malcolm wrote:
I am referring to the external authorities that are supposedly responsible for ensuring data block integrity in the blockchain model.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 11:06 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:



narhwal90 said:
Not so, observe the rush to outsource everything to the cloud and office365.   once the data leaves your servers its no longer yours.   When the vendor abuse becomes too onerous I suppose the pendulum will swing back.  The opportunity to outsource and realize short term savings on the balance sheet looks irresistible I suppose.

Seems to me blockchain's primary application so far is to create hype and expensive consultants.

Malcolm wrote:
Service providers agree to provide security for ones proprietary data. That’s not true with a blockchain applications. Blockchain requires third party intervention to manage data integrity.

Blockchain only functions if every node has a full copy of the data. That’s inherently inefficient. That’s why it can’t scale.

narhwal90 said:
Service providers agree to the letter of the contract, to the extent it can be enforced.   I'm involved with a move of systems into AWS as we speak and its personally shocking to see how quickly an organization can decide that it doesn't need to run its own hardware and transitions to a model where it pays an external organization for access to its own sensitive internal systems and data.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a cost/benefit analysis running such decisions. Having ones own equipment does not assure security—look at the just discovered MS exchange/outlook hack.

The “cloud” is just a bunch of externally located virtual servers. No different than web hosting 20 years ago, other than scale.

narhwal90 said:
I don't see redundancy as a big problem- storage is cheap and duplication provides redundancy which has its own value- otoh I wonder if the ledger size and computational overhead will limit the scaling.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that’s the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 9:36 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:



tkp67 said:
See he above and let me know if you need some ghee for your popcorn


Malcolm wrote:
As I said, no company is going to place its sensitive data in the hands of strangers, for any reason.

narhwal90 said:
Not so, observe the rush to outsource everything to the cloud and office365.   once the data leaves your servers its no longer yours.   When the vendor abuse becomes too onerous I suppose the pendulum will swing back.  The opportunity to outsource and realize short term savings on the balance sheet looks irresistible I suppose.

Seems to me blockchain's primary application so far is to create hype and expensive consultants.

Malcolm wrote:
Service providers agree to provide security for ones proprietary data. That’s not true with a blockchain applications. Blockchain requires third party intervention to manage data integrity.

Blockchain only functions if every node has a full copy of the data. That’s inherently inefficient. That’s why it can’t scale.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 9:30 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:



tkp67 said:
See he above and let me know if you need some ghee for your popcorn


Malcolm wrote:
As I said, no company is going to place its sensitive data in the hands of strangers, for any reason.

tkp67 said:
What does that have to do with blockchain technology changing the internet ecosystem?

If you read the research paper from Japan you will notice it speaks to the very dynamic being discussed by the OP. Cause, Effect and purpose.

Your argument doesn't hold up to reality either way. Ask Netflix how they were able to support streaming a few years after establishing a business model. When they first started streaming wasn't a viable business model.

Malcolm wrote:
These are entirely different issues.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 8:40 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:


tkp67 said:
See he above and let me know if you need some ghee for your popcorn


Malcolm wrote:
As I said, no company is going to place its sensitive data in the hands of strangers, for any reason.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 8:28 PM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:


Aemilius said:
12. Reject  the concepts “it exists,” “it doesn’t exist” about that which is not evident prior to, now or after seeing etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Ultimately. But "eye contacting form results in eye consciousness" is a convention which Madhyamaka does not reject. Why? Because it is how common people explain sight.

Aemilius said:
That is not quite right. You have to refresh your memory. According to Abhidharma, that is accepted by Madhyamaka and other schools, perception takes place in a rapid sequence of stages, first you perceive a "thing", then you project an identity, like a car, person, frog, snake etc.., then you perceive what you perceive. (This is a simplified version of it.) This exists in the Sravakayana Abhidharma already, it is not a product of the later developments of Dharma, (You should be aware of this).
Here is what Alex Berzins says about it https://studybuddhism.com/en/advanced-studies/science-of-mind/ways-of-knowing/seven-ways-of-knowing-objects/context-of-ways-of-knowing-bare-perception

Malcolm wrote:
There is no contradiction here to what I said.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 8:24 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:


tkp67 said:
They aren't direct indicators of bitcoin's long term value but the money they are generating is being spent to build out the industry.

For example and to the topic. One of the purchasers of the art mentioned that it might lose all value over the term but the investment into the future of virtual art was worth the investment at face value. Reportedly young people making a seeming windfall in digital currency incites discretionary spending. From what I understand the artists received compensation from these sales driving some of the momentum.

PeterC said:
What’s being “built out”, exactly?

The people doing work on distributed records in actual real world applications are a completely different set of people from the Bitcoin fanboys on social media. What cryptocurrency is promoting investment in is wasteful use of resources to “create” something that has zero utility.

The idea that ‘virtual art’ is somehow comparable to editions of prints or photos is nonsense. Editions only have value if they are limited editions.  Open editions are very hard to sell and priced very low, because they have no scarcity value. Virtual art is not even comparable to open editions. Why?  Because you can download exactly the same thing for a cost of zero.

tkp67 said:
A virtual market and economy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 11:21 AM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:
tkp67 said:
it does represent the next stage of internet cloud based technologies.

Health record access is an interesting application for example.

Malcolm wrote:
As I said, as a technology for storing serial records, it’s fine. It simply has realworld limitations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 10:15 AM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:


tkp67 said:
I maintained a Microsoft partnership for close to 20 years. Was also an executive for a leading Novell integrator.

Malcolm wrote:
Glad to be wrong. But it makes your visionary stance towards blockchain all the more puzzling. It’s all still pretty speculative, and depends on a level of voluntary cooperation which is difficult at best to find in competitive markets, for example, convincing people to install Novell enterprise-wide.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 7:02 AM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:


tkp67 said:
Technology evolves too rapidly to pretend conceptual limitations matter. That was the point of the AOL comment.

Malcolm wrote:
You've clearly never worked in a datacenter, worked in a software project, or designed a database once in your entire life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 6:15 AM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:


Aemilius said:
12. Reject  the concepts “it exists,” “it doesn’t exist” about that which is not evident prior to, now or after seeing etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Ultimately. But "eye contacting form results in eye consciousness" is a convention which Madhyamaka does not reject. Why? Because it is how common people explain sight.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 6:11 AM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:


tkp67 said:
The IEEE commentary talks to all the points you mention and they don't hold up under said commentary.

Malcolm wrote:
What the IEEE claims and what works in the real world are two different things.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 5:26 AM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:



jake said:
Anyway, paper wealth isn't true wealth. True wealth is having an energy infrastructure that can handle a few degrees below zero without grinding to a halt and killing people.

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, but what about muh freedum?

jake said:
Or a functioning medical system that permits people to return to work, generate tax revenue, and have meaningful lives.

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, but what about muh freedum?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 5:23 AM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:



tkp67 said:
Blockchain and cryptocurrency are not separable.

Malcolm wrote:
Blockchain is not particularly innovative. It is useful for some kinds of data storage, and not useful for other kinds of data storage, where one is better off using relational databases that use SQL.

tkp67 said:
Decentralization within the internet ecosystem is what makes performance different.

Centralization of systems such as this is antiquated and the transitional nexus for corruption.

Malcolm wrote:
Again, it quite depends on what one wants use one has for a database. For example, I can't think of a single company that would trust any of their secure data in a shared node database of the kind that bitcoin employs. At this juncture, it seems that the best use for blockchain databases is logistics tracking in a supply chain. But blockchain databases begin to degenerate in performance when the datasets become large and complex.

A relational database is as secure as the network it is set up on and the servers in which it sits. It is generally much superior to a blockchain database in terms data integrity (aka normalization), speed, and so on, when working with multiple data points in a complex environment. Its performance can suffer if encryption is required on tables in the database itself. But encryption load can also be downside of blockchain databases.

So again, it just depends on the application. Remember, everything looks like a nail to a hammer.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 4:31 AM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:



tkp67 said:
Blockchain and cryptocurrency are not separable.

Malcolm wrote:
Blockchain is not particularly innovative. It is useful for some kinds of data storage, and not useful for other kinds of data storage, where one is better off using relational databases that use SQL.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:
Archie2009 said:
I just realised Jay Garfield did the three part Wisdom Academy course Buddhist Philosophy in Depth which I'm about to start. This is very disappointing. I now wonder if there are any other wrong or questionable views of his I need to be aware of.

Malcolm wrote:
Jay is fine-- his view is very influenced by Gelug sources, but he is a trained philosopher and a very smart guy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 6th, 2021 at 1:42 AM
Title: Re: Do we know what Buddha taught? (split from GMO and...)
Content:
neander said:
https://tricycle.org/magazine/myth-historical-buddha/

With today's philological accuracy, comparative studies, and resources we have from the digital revolution the picture is quite clear...there are no hard facts.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a hard fact— recorded in thousands of texts, many dating back to the first century BCE—the 2000 year-old, consistent, historical consensus on what the Buddha taught three centuries earlier.

neander said:
There are no hard facts whatsoever much less consensus:

Malcolm wrote:
You are just flat out wrong.

neander said:
Buddhists scriptures are also far from coherent, “we must accept the fact there are divergences and contradictions in the Buddhist scriptures”  The beginning of Buddhism J.W.De Jong, he also writes
“According to the traditions there were from time to time meetings called councils in English,the Pali term sangiti means singing or reciting together; the accounts we have of these councils are unreliable”

Malcolm wrote:
This is an opinion, not a fact.

neander said:
From the wiki page of Pre Sectarian Buddhism:

Edward Conze held that there was an "absence of hard facts"
Donald Lopez: "The original teachings of the historical Buddha are extremely difficult, if not impossible, to recover or reconstruct.
Etienne Lamotte argues that while it "is impossible to say with certainty"

Malcolm wrote:
These are opinions, not facts.

neander said:
please note also the article  I linked comes from Trycicle a Buddhist website, so if something is posted it must have some validity

Malcolm wrote:
Trike as a Buddhist authority has no merit.

neander said:
You can follow up on this and study all moder Buddhist literature.

Malcolm wrote:
I have, and for much longer than you.

neander said:
Please also note that it should be clear that I am not against any Buddhist tradition per se, provided they do not sell for historical evidence dating back to Lord Buddha's life what is historical evidence dating back centuries after his death.

Malcolm wrote:
I have already pointed out to you that there are documents, physical documents, dating back before the common era, which show broad agreement with what we understand Buddhadharma to be today.

https://gandhari.org

All Buddhist traditions agree that the Buddha's words were not set down in writing until a considerable time following his parinirvana, depending on how that is dated. That is a fact.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 5th, 2021 at 11:57 PM
Title: Re: NFT madness
Content:
PeterC said:
It's complete nonsense.  Cryptocurrencies in their current forms are for fools and criminals. Particularly foolish criminals, who want to leave a permanent record of their transactions for governments to decode at their leisure.

jake said:
Indeed. Naked Capitalism has had a few good pieces the past weeks on crypto-currency. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021/02/what-happens-if-bitcoin-succeeds.html Prices will collapse once people realise it's not as useful/beneficial as the techies suggest.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, paying for things is a little difficult with bitcoin.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 5th, 2021 at 11:39 PM
Title: Re: Do we know what Buddha taught? (split from GMO and...)
Content:
neander said:
https://tricycle.org/magazine/myth-historical-buddha/

With today's philological accuracy, comparative studies, and resources we have from the digital revolution the picture is quite clear...there are no hard facts.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a hard fact— recorded in thousands of texts, many dating back to the first century BCE—the 2000 year-old, consistent, historical consensus on what the Buddha taught three centuries earlier.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 5th, 2021 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: GMO and right livelihood hi all,
Content:


neander said:
However, in 2021 we cannot be dogmatic and say: This is the true Buddhism .. as we do not have the means to do so

Malcolm wrote:
This is excessively skeptical.

We certainly know that there is a historical consensus about what constitutes the Dharma: absence of personal and phenomenal identity; emptiness; dependent origination; rebirth caused by affliction; karma and its results; four truths of nobles; and so on.

That historical consensus, consistent for over two thousand years, is sufficient to infer what was taught by the historical Buddha. The principles he enunciated are more important than the books in which they were eventually written down.

The problem with your method, and indeed the method of post-Schopen Buddhology, is that it is materialist, and only accepts direct perception as a valid authority.

However, in Buddhadharma, the historical consensus shows across cultures, time, and sects, three forms of authority are acceptable in Buddhadharma: valid direct perception; inferences based on valid direct perception; and testimony of reliable witnesses.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 5th, 2021 at 11:23 PM
Title: Re: GMO and right livelihood hi all,
Content:


neander said:
Buddhology is independent of individual researcher's ignorance.

Malcolm wrote:
As Bristollad points out to you, you are merely describing the limitations of text-critical methodology. That methodology perishes in absence of texts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 5th, 2021 at 10:32 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:



SilenceMonkey said:
What about local, organic farming?
Or better yet, growing your own food.

Malcolm wrote:
Have you ever tried to live on only the food you grow yourself? Local organic farming is great, if you don’t live in an urban or rural food desert, of which there are far too many. JD is right, Veganism is just white privileged wrapped in a diet.

SilenceMonkey said:
I haven't, no. But I think it's a great idea.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a great deal more work than I think you realize. For example, do you know how long it takes to grow a head of broccoli or cauliflower? Tomatoes? Corn?

A modern vegetarian diet with broccoli etc.  every day is only possible with the globalization of agriculture and cheap farm labor. The craze for quinoa has made this grain prohibitively expensive in Andes, where it is a staple. The craze for avocado toast has resulted in the devastation of old growth forests in the Michoacán highlands, the only Mexican state allowed to export avocados to the US.

Global food security is more important than our individual diet morality. We need to address the former first. That includes a major overhaul of industrial agriculture. But to expect people to stop eating meat is unrealistic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 5th, 2021 at 9:41 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
Along those lines, I would argue that if we wanna "go there", then the absolute most harm-free diet one can adopt today (providing that's a priority, and I don't think it needs to be to for everyone,I'd go as far as to say that if it's a priority for someone, it's an indication of a privileged lifestyle) is the modern equivalent of Shakyamuni's diet - basically, something like freeganism.

SilenceMonkey said:
What about local, organic farming?
Or better yet, growing your own food.

Malcolm wrote:
Have you ever tried to live on only the food you grow yourself? Local organic farming is great, if you don’t live in an urban or rural food desert, of which there are far too many. JD is right, Veganism is just white privileged wrapped in a diet.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 5th, 2021 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: Question about Sand Mandalas
Content:
escargotmycargo said:
Thank you very much for your reply!  So I assume they use a reference for that then, and are not doing it from memory?

Malcolm wrote:
Not from memory. They are following a text.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 5th, 2021 at 2:19 AM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Life lives on death. It is really simple and not complicated at all to figure out.

Könchok Chödrak said:
Tell that to someone in the Amida Buddha Pure Land. Why can't we work on creating a similar Pure Land here?

Malcolm wrote:
"Pure" is not an objective state. It is a subjective state, which depends on whether one has traces of affliction or not. Even Sukhavati will appear impure to someone with impure visions.

The only pure land one can work on is one's own pure vision.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 5th, 2021 at 1:13 AM
Title: Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 35: Dhatus as Tangibles
Content:


Queequeg said:
Avijnapti is a peculiar category

Malcolm wrote:
It is a form of matter created by taking vows. That's all. It is debated extensively in chapter 4.

Queequeg said:
The Princeton Dictionary suggests its a broader category - including all intentions. Do you know where that comes from if not in this text?

Malcolm wrote:
The only ramification it has is with vows. That's why it is debated in the karma chapter. BTW, Sautrantikas reject it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 5th, 2021 at 12:14 AM
Title: Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 35: Dhatus as Tangibles
Content:


Queequeg said:
Avijnapti is a peculiar category

Malcolm wrote:
It is a form of matter created by taking vows. That's all. It is debated extensively in chapter 4.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 4th, 2021 at 11:09 PM
Title: Re: Great Vegan Debate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Life lives on death. It is really simple and not complicated at all to figure out.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 4th, 2021 at 11:08 PM
Title: Re: Do devas & hell beings experience time differently than we do?
Content:
Crazywisdom said:
If you have a body, you have time.  All sentient beings have bodies, even the formless ones.

Seeker12 said:
Do you know of any source that discusses this much? I've seen it said, and it makes sense to me, that there's basically a very subtle body, but I can't recall any citations or anything on the topic exactly.

Malcolm wrote:
According to Vasubandhu, time depends a) on objects b) the unit of measuring time is the duration of a thought. When one does not perceive objects, it seems as though no time has passed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 4th, 2021 at 11:06 PM
Title: Re: Question about Sand Mandalas
Content:
escargotmycargo said:
Hi everyone!

Quick question for you: when a sand Mandala is made, do the practitioners making it memorize the image first and make it based on the image in their mind, or do they look at a picture as a reference?

Thank you very much!

Malcolm wrote:
It is laid out very precisely before hand.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 4th, 2021 at 10:41 AM
Title: Re: Reset rule for ngondro accumulations - your experience?
Content:


Terma said:
Agreed. I guess everyone is different, but I would not want such a rigid approach from my teachers. After all, we are trying to eliminate suffering! I guess I've been very fortunate to have teachers with a much more relaxed approach.

PeterC said:
The ‘reset’ requirement is a standard thing with many excellent teachers from major lineages.  And honestly it’s not such an imposition to commit to doing ten minutes of practice every day.  If we can’t even do that, we’re probably not going to get very far with the Buddhadharma.

karmanyingpo said:
I am genuinly curious not intending disrespect in anyway - is there a scriptural basis for the reset rule or is it tradition?
Also, if it is tradition, did it used to be universal as a requirement for ngondro practitioners?

KN

Malcolm wrote:
Nothing is written in stone. Different lamas have different attitudes towards these issues. There is no one correct opinion about any of this, instead there are many different correct opinions about all this. They all, in the end boil down to oneself and ones teacher.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 4th, 2021 at 5:59 AM
Title: Re: One wisdom or three wisdoms?
Content:


Viach said:
P.S. Standard explanations are already known to me and are not the subject of my post.

Malcolm wrote:
What makes you think anyone here has the requisite language skills in Pali or Sanskrit to answer your question? You should know better.

Crazywisdom said:
Punya is a pretty well trodden term buddy.

Malcolm wrote:
He is asking about prajñā, wisdom. Punya is merit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 4th, 2021 at 5:11 AM
Title: Re: Reset rule for ngondro accumulations - your experience?
Content:


karmanyingpo said:
Although if your teacher tells you, you must reset if you miss a day, what is there to do?

Malcolm wrote:
Find a more reasonable teacher.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 4th, 2021 at 4:24 AM
Title: Re: One wisdom or three wisdoms?
Content:


Viach said:
P.S. Standard explanations are already known to me and are not the subject of my post.

Malcolm wrote:
What makes you think anyone here has the requisite language skills in Pali or Sanskrit to answer your question? You should know better.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: Reset rule for ngondro accumulations - your experience?
Content:
Soma999 said:
Many people don’t have much time for practice.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but many people also do not accumulate as much merit merely from their jobs as physicians do.I am quite familiar with the Yuthok Nyingthik, and I understand quite clearly what it says about itself concerning the reason its practices are so brief. Basically, it is for physicians. Its not really a practice for regular practitioners.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 11:00 PM
Title: Re: Reset rule for ngondro accumulations - your experience?
Content:


Soma999 said:
Yuthok clearly realised it when he does a one week ngondro.

Malcolm wrote:
Yuthok's short ngondro is designed for physicians who do not have much time to practice. Why do I know this? Because I am a Doctor of Tibetan Medicine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 10:38 AM
Title: Re: Do devas & hell beings experience time differently than we do?
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
Here's an important question: what about the differences between time effecting those in the cessated stage, Nibbana, and those still caught in the kleshas? How is time perceived differently in either consciousness?

Malcolm wrote:
Time depends on objects, actually, even though the unit of time is measured in terms of discrete thought moments.

When there are no objects, one does not notice lapses  in time. Buddhas don’t experience time as we understand it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 6:37 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:



cloudburst said:
fascinating! since the direct perception of the dharmata is the threshold defining the path of seeing, how can that make sense?

Malcolm wrote:
It's the difference between a path based on sems and a path based on ye shes.

If you want more details, you will have to go study Dzogchen under a qualified person.

cloudburst said:
sounds amazing, best of luck

Malcolm wrote:
Thanks, you too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 6:20 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
cloudburst said:
Dzogchen too has no direct perception of dharmata below the path of seeing

Malcolm wrote:
That is incorrect.

cloudburst said:
fascinating! since the direct perception of the dharmata is the threshold defining the path of seeing, how can that make sense?

Malcolm wrote:
It's the difference between a path based on sems and a path based on ye shes.

If you want more details, you will have to go study Dzogchen under a qualified person.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 4:46 AM
Title: Re: Do devas & hell beings experience time differently than we do?
Content:
Brunelleschi said:
I mean time is a measurable unit

Malcolm wrote:
In Buddhadharma, the smallest unit of time is the length of a concept.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 4:45 AM
Title: Re: Do devas & hell beings experience time differently than we do?
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
There is no time occurring...

Malcolm wrote:
You should have stopped here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 3:44 AM
Title: Re: Failing to discover the nature of ones mind in this lifetime.
Content:


GrapeLover said:
Does this imply that even wrathful pure lands aren’t perceived as they’re described to us? Or, in this context, is there a difference between wrathful ‘manifestations’ of enlightenment and impure karmic phenomena?

Would even pleasant karmic phenomena count as impure perception in this context? Eg in pure perception a hell wouldn’t be hellish, but even a heaven wouldn’t be like how devas perceive a heaven?

Malcolm wrote:
Peaceful and wrathful is from the point of view of those to be tamed.

Buddhas have no experience of impure phenomena of any kind. They perceive all sentient beings as buddhas, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 3:41 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
cloudburst said:
Dzogchen too has no direct perception of dharmata below the path of seeing

Malcolm wrote:
That is incorrect.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 3:12 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and the 9 vehicles
Content:



Seeker12 said:
Wow that is a very good quote.

Malcolm wrote:
There are many similar citations like this in the Gongpa Zangthal and other Nyinthig cycles.

Seeker12 said:
Since the body has a heart, limbs can be lost

heart said:
Pretty weird statement.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen is the ideal teaching for quadriplegics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 2:43 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and the 9 vehicles
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
The dharmas of the nine vehicles are like a blind man's cane, like the scaffold for a building, like the hem of a robe, like a limb of the body and are not indispensable. Though they exist, they are not essential. The teaching of the Great Perfection is like giving a blind man eyes, and having gained sight, has no need for the cane. Like the pillar that supports the building, since the building is supported in the center, the scaffolding can be removed. Since the body has a heart, limbs can be lost.

Seeker12 said:
Wow that is a very good quote.

Malcolm wrote:
There are many similar citations like this in the Gongpa Zangthal and other Nyinthig cycles.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 2:42 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
cloudburst said:
There is mahamudra based on the mind, and there is mahamudra based on wisdom, both exist

Malcolm wrote:
Really, so in Geluk Mahāmudra, below the path of seeing, there is a mahāmudra based on ye shes and the direct perception of dharmatā?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 2:28 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:


cloudburst said:
you used to be against "dancing on books"

Malcolm wrote:
You know what they say about consistency...

cloudburst said:
Im pleased you admit you are dancing on books, I prefer honest conversation partners. Do not forget that is is a foolish consistency that is criticized, you should have tried to remain with your initial good impulse

Malcolm wrote:
Even Geluk Mahāmudra is a path with takes mind as the basis, rather than ye shes. That's not dancing on books; that's irrefutable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 2:27 AM
Title: Re: Why lung or transmission is needed
Content:


karmanyingpo said:
I will wait for Malcolm to explain more about the Sanskrit because that is not an area of expertise for me but I do know that there are many pseudo entymologies out there for ancient language words and a lot of pseudo linguistics in general about Sanskrit. You also see it with languages like Hebrew and Tamil. Many made up origins for words and breakdowns of words. Language is a gray area for many people because since it associates with literature and the arts it is seen as more fuzzy and in a sense that is true, .. but those who study language such as linguistics and entymologists do follow rigorous methods for analyzing language and many pseudo explanations fail to meet basic criteria for this

KN

Malcolm wrote:
The Hindus have their way of explaining things, and the Buddhists have a different way explaining things. Take samādhi for example; the Hindu explanation is often "together" (sam) with the highest (ādhi). The Buddhist explanation is quite different: evenly (samā) holding (dhi).

So, we cannot go and conflated the way Hindus explain technical terms with the way we explain technical terms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 2:23 AM
Title: Re: Why lung or transmission is needed
Content:



Soma999 said:
A good sanskrit analysis of the word guru, allowing to better understand what it represents :

https://sampadanandamishra.medium.com/sanskrit-words-for-a-teacher-2-ad0e4ba5c315

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddhist tradition is as I have explained it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 1:30 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:



cloudburst said:
I suppose that's true by definition. mahamudra enables us to become a thirteenth ground Vajradhara in his life, cannot do better

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, one can do a little better; one can attain the sixteenth stage, unsurpassed gnosis (ye shes bla ma).

cloudburst said:
you used to be against "dancing on books"

Malcolm wrote:
You know what they say about consistency...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 1:29 AM
Title: Re: Why lung or transmission is needed
Content:
Soma999 said:
No one should blindly follow a lama. And more especially now as we see all kind of perverted people who are not clear with money, power and sexe.

The commitment to follow the Guru is first a commitment between you and the Guru principle (which means that remove darkness : gun is darkness, ru removes darkness).

Malcolm wrote:
I do not know where you found this, but it does not accord with Buddhist tradition, where guru is etymologized as one heavy (guru) with qualities (guna).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021 at 12:56 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:



cloudburst said:
correct, not needed

Malcolm wrote:
That depends on your aims.

cloudburst said:
I suppose that's true by definition. mahamudra enables us to become a thirteenth ground Vajradhara in his life, cannot do better

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, one can do a little better; one can attain the sixteenth stage, unsurpassed gnosis (ye shes bla ma).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 11:51 PM
Title: Re: Resentful buddhas?
Content:
fckw said:
If it's supposed to be either a figure of speech or needs to be contextualized - why then does CT claim there is scriptural authority for his claim? And does anyone have any clue what scriptural reference he could have meant?

Malcolm wrote:
As the Tantra Without Syllables states:
Since there is no destination in me,
the self-apparent domain is totally perfect.
I am not a place to go, beyond all.
One goes beyond to a place that is not a destination.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 11:46 PM
Title: Re: Resentful buddhas?
Content:
fckw said:
On the eleventh bhumi, the four noble truths are not just truths in terms of ethical understanding and discipline, but they become wisdom, or jnana. You experience their absolute truth. You have actually understood at last what you began with as a student on the path of accumulation. You have made a complete circle, but in this case you have done it with more understanding. Previously, you were just tossed and challenged by the consequences of the truth, rather than understanding it as jnana, or higher truth. That process is very important; it makes the whole thing very real. In the end, you have not bypassed anything, but you are returning to the origin—to the source of your original inspiration at the level of the first path. Tantric scriptures say that you might feel enormously resentful that the journey was a complete put-on, a sort of pacifier. Nevertheless, you did make a journey, and you did get somewhere.
Chögyam Trungpa makes this claim in the book "The Bodhisattva Path of Wisdom and Compassion" about Buddhas having reached the 11th bhumi.

Malcolm wrote:
The only thing to disagree with is that one would resent this. But yes, the journey is completely illusory from beginning to end. In reality, there was never anywhere to go.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 11:44 PM
Title: Re: Failing to discover the nature of ones mind in this lifetime.
Content:


coldbeer said:
Ah ok.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhas only see pure buddha fields. Buddhas have no impure vision, they only have pure vision.

Jangchup Donden said:
Wouldn't that contradict their omniscience, as they should be able to see what ordinary being see as well?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhas have no impure vision. This does not affect their two-fold omniscience. They know that pretas see pus and blood, etc. But they do not themselves experience any impure phenomena, even in hell.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and the 9 vehicles
Content:



Lingpupa said:
1) what authorities other than ChNRR state that dzogchen is not ati yoga and is outside the nine yanas?

Malcolm wrote:
Well, for example, there is this passage from the Vairocana Aural Lineage in the Gongpa Zangthal:

The dharmas of the nine vehicles are like a blind man's cane, like the scaffold for a building, like the hem of a robe, like a limb of the body and are not indispensable. Though they exist, they are not essential. The teaching of the Great Perfection is like giving a blind man eyes, and having gained sight, has no need for the cane. Like the pillar that supports the building, since the building is supported in the center, the scaffolding can be removed. Since the body has a heart, limbs can be lost.



Lingpupa said:
2) if it is true that dzogchen (presumably including space, mind and instruction classes, rushen trekchod, thogal) is not what ati yoga is about, then what teachings, practices, or anything do belong to the ati yoga class? What else does it contain?

Malcolm wrote:
Atiyoga, in this context, is the completion stage of anuyoga. In the commentary on the Tantra Without Syllables attributed to Vimalamitra, we find two kinds of Ati yoga mentioned, "the proponents of Ati who assert words that are approximations" and "those who are beyond words and expressions are those of the unmistaken Atiyoga."

In the Commentary to the Tantra Without Syllables, pp. 166, it is stated:

Since the reality of inexpressible Atiyoga cannot be illustrated by the path of the partisan tenets of the nine vehicles, it naturally cannot be illustrated by their different terminologies. Therefore, since there is no grasping to the different objects of the five sense gates in the mode of being of entities, it cannot be confirmed with words. Therefore, it is explained that yogis who adhere to words are deviating into the common vehicles.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 9:55 AM
Title: Re: Failing to discover the nature of ones mind in this lifetime.
Content:



coldbeer said:
What is the reason to go there if one has already become realized in this lifetime?

Malcolm wrote:
To visit? Club Med for Buddhas?

coldbeer said:
Ah ok.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhas only see pure buddha fields. Buddhas have no impure vision, they only have pure vision.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 8:53 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:




cloudburst said:
this is Gelug mahamudra as well

Malcolm wrote:
Mahāmudra and trekcho have commonalities. But there is no thogal in the former.

cloudburst said:
correct, not needed

Malcolm wrote:
That depends on your aims.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 7:59 AM
Title: Re: Do Empowerments Give Refuge, Precepts, and Bodhisattva Vows?
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
I would just like to ask if there is a difference between Bodhicitta vows and Bodhisattva vows.

Malcolm wrote:
No.

Könchok Thrinley said:
Thank you. Also one more since we are at it. I have heard that one has to know the vows one is taking to really take them and therefore receive an empowerment. What do you think about it?

Malcolm wrote:
It helps. Its the responsibility of the teacher to explain this. If the teacher does not explain this, it is a fault.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 4:48 AM
Title: Re: One wisdom or three wisdoms?
Content:
Viach said:
In the list, wisdom through hearing-wisdom through reflection-wisdom through meditation, does the word wisdom refer to the same wisdom (namely direct vision of 4TN = 4 Truths of the Noble) or is it three fundamentally different types of wisdom. Is it possible, based on the analysis of the Pali / Sanskrit grammar of the original text (sutra), to give an unambiguous answer to the question posed above? The background of my question is that in the time of the Buddha and not only there were cases of enlightenment at the moment of listening to the dharma. I.e. the hearing was just a trigger.

Malcolm wrote:
There are three trainings: śila, samadhi, and prājña. In the category of prajñā are the prajña's of hearing, reflection, and cultivation. They are different. The first is hearing a dharma topic; the second is reflecting on its meaning; the third is integrating into the path. Only the third is pure wisdom, the first two are conceptual.

Those āryas who had sudden realization from hearing a word of dharma, like Shariputra, had strong past life traces with the Buddhadharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 4:44 AM
Title: Re: Do Empowerments Give Refuge, Precepts, and Bodhisattva Vows?
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
I would just like to ask if there is a difference between Bodhicitta vows and Bodhisattva vows.

Malcolm wrote:
No.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 4:43 AM
Title: Re: Accounting for the Chinese Destruction of Tibet
Content:
Nemo said:
Buddhism adapted to Tibet and the theocracy was a grand Mongol experiment. I think for the time it was incredibly beneficial and superior to what had come before.

Malcolm wrote:
The actual rule of the Ganden Phodrang started in 1642 with the execution of Karma Tenkyong, the king of Tsang, and ended in 1704 with the abduction and probable execution of the 6th Dalai Lama in 1706. It was born in the bloodshed of the war of king of Tsang. The 7th Dalai Lama was politically weak, as were the 8th-12th.

The political situation of Tibet was precarious at best, and actually saw very few periods of overall peace and prosperity. We can see this actually in the flourishing of the first renaissance in Tibet, from 1000 to roughly 1250. Then again, from roughly 1400-1500. Otherwise, Tibetan history was filled with a lot of war, violence, and power struggles.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 3:12 AM
Title: Re: Do Empowerments Give Refuge, Precepts, and Bodhisattva Vows?
Content:


Motova said:
"Refuge, Precepts and Bodhisattva vows are to be taken seperately in detail. The repetitions you do after the lama during empowerments is only symbolic." -from another Lama (This sounds like a no to me, and so I asked a following question and am waiting on his response)

Malcolm wrote:
That's bullshit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 2:23 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen, gnosis is the basis. Recognizing that gnosis is the path

cloudburst said:
this is Gelug mahamudra as well

Malcolm wrote:
Mahāmudra and trekcho have commonalities. But there is no thogal in the former.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 2:15 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
cloudburst said:
Brother, this thread is a mess, can you clear it up


Malcolm wrote:
Thus Buddhas do not possess gnosis. This a special point of Dzogchen, unshared with the nine yanas.
Gampopa's view of gnosis is more or less the same as Rongzom's.
"That being the case, the Buddha is the dharmakāya. Since the dharmakāya is nonarising and free from proliferation, it does not possess gnosis.

cloudburst said:
Is not possessing gnosis a special feature of Dzogchen or do Mahamudra people like Gampopa teach it as well?

Further, this has come up many times, can you clarify the difference between Dzogchen adn the ninth yana. they are very often used synonymously

Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen takes ye shes as the path. The nine yānas take mind as the path. This is the basic difference between Dzogchen and the Nine Yānas.

There are some similarities between general Dzogchen language and Kagyu Mahāmudra language, because Milarepa and Gampopa were both raised in the Nyingma tradition. Not only this, but Dzeng Dharmabodhi exchanged teachings with Gampopa, the former teachings the space series, the latter teaching mahāmudra.

The basic point that Rongzom and Mipham make is that in Dzogchen, the absence of gnosis in the result is not an absence of gnosis per se. In Dzogchen, gnosis is the basis. Recognizing that gnosis is the path. The gnosis lacking the result is the two-fold gnosis. It is a complicated issue, totally beyond the scope of this forum or my energy to address.


Also

cloudburst said:
So Buddha's do posses gnosis, or pristine consciousness, the self-originated pristine consciousness of luminous mind, one of the three types of gnosis according to Rongzom

Malcolm wrote:
This gnosis, so called rang byung ye shes, is the basis. Everyone possesses this gnosis, buddha or not. In the Kagyu school they call this ground mahāmudra or the all-basis; in Sakya, it is called cause mahāmudra or the all-basis cause continuum; in Geluk, it is the subtle mind of luminosity; in Nyingma is it called "the triune pristine consciousness of the basis."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 1:32 AM
Title: Re: Failing to discover the nature of ones mind in this lifetime.
Content:



coldbeer said:
What about combining Nembutsu (Namo Amida Butsu) with Dzogchen? Would that work too?

Könchok Thrinley said:
No problem. I think HH Jigme Phuntsok Rinpoche a completely realized master also went to Dewachen. Many great masters go to pure lands, or rather in their case manifest there. I myself also practice in such a way so I can get reborn in Dewachen, time is limited and sometimes it is not easy to gain some realization.

coldbeer said:
What is the reason to go there if one has already become realized in this lifetime?

Malcolm wrote:
To visit? Club Med for Buddhas?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 2nd, 2021 at 1:31 AM
Title: Re: Failing to discover the nature of ones mind in this lifetime.
Content:
fckw said:
Many dzogchen texts contain instructions on phowa for exactly that purpose. But we should also not forget that many dzogchen texts are quite serious about the possibility to realize the teachings within one single lifetime. So, phowa is only for those unlucky ones who did not get it beforehand.


Malcolm wrote:
Most people do not achieve liberation in this lifetime. Most Dzogchen practitioners attain liberation in the bardo of dharmatā.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 1st, 2021 at 11:44 AM
Title: Re: Accounting for the Chinese Destruction of Tibet
Content:



SilenceMonkey said:
It's possible, though. I'd bet they have records of every practitioner of theirs who achieved it.

You think this is a stretch. And maybe so. But why would it not be a stretch to say the Dharma was never in decline? That sounds ridiculous.

Hazel said:
Why does it sound ridiculous?

SilenceMonkey said:
History is all about rise and decline. Before the Buddha, there was no Dharma in this world.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s simply not true.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 1st, 2021 at 11:42 AM
Title: Re: Accounting for the Chinese Destruction of Tibet
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
It's possible, though. I'd bet they have records of every practitioner of theirs who achieved it.

Malcolm wrote:
I bet they don’t.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 1st, 2021 at 8:22 AM
Title: Re: Accounting for the Chinese Destruction of Tibet
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
But it wasn’t a spiritually motivated civilization. Tibet was in a state of constant internecine warfare, tribe against tribe, school against school, monastery against monastery, region against region. Time to take off the rose colored spectacles.

WeiHan said:
This has to be so! It is just human nature in play. People who believe otherwise has to be damn idealistic. I think Dharma has never been in decline, just idealistic people looking into the past and think there has been more saints in the past but in reality, human nature today is the same human nature in the past.

SilenceMonkey said:
In the past, it's said that over 100,000 practitioners at Kathok monastery alone have achieved rainbow body. Almost no one is achieving it these days. Maybe one practitioner every year or two... Maybe not even that.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s what’s said. Hyperbolic at best.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 1st, 2021 at 6:23 AM
Title: Re: Why lung or transmission is needed
Content:
Soma999 said:
If you think the guru (lama) is just this body, and the body and the substance perform the empowerment, then you can’t receive it online.

Malcolm wrote:
You’re missing the point, but I don’t have the energy to explain to you what you do not seem to understand.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 1st, 2021 at 3:15 AM
Title: Re: Can you give back tantric vows if you don't want them anymore?
Content:


WeiHan said:
Will one be parted from the guru who leads one to liberation if one has more than one guru but break samaya only with one of them?

Malcolm wrote:
What do you mean by "break samaya."

WeiHan said:
Thinking some of his/her behaviour is worse than some of ordinary beings, opportunistic, defensive, ignorant and even childish. Don't feel inspired anymore and do not attend his/her teachings, empowerments anymore. If  I am not wrong, impure perception is already breaking of  samaya..that is where also I suspect many vajrayanists are just pure hypocrirtes.

Malcolm wrote:
This is not breaking samaya. There is no samaya to have a unrealistic view of a given teacher. This is why we do not generally visualize our gurus in ordinary, impure forms, but rather, in the form of Vajradhara, Guru Rinpoche, our Yidam, etc.

In this case, what you do is you quietly move on. You don't have to criticize this person, but you are also not a slave.

And no, having negative feelings about a teacher you decide is not a qualified teacher does not constitute a cause to part with your root guru in future lives.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 1st, 2021 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: Why lung or transmission is needed
Content:
karmanyingpo said:
I just have a hard time believing that masters such as HH Dalai Lama and HE Garchen Rinpoche are not telling the truth when they tell students that they can receive such and such online or even via recording. I know you are mainly asking about lung but I think the same applies to wang despite their being more stringent conditions.

Malcolm wrote:
There are a variety of opinions out there. For example, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu maintained that one could not give the elaborate vase empowerment online because it involves various substances, nor could one receive a lung or any kind of empowerment from a recording. He maintained that only direct introduction and so-called "meaning empowerments" could be given online. There are a number of other teachers who happen to agree with ChNN's stance on this point.

In the end, one has to follow one's own feelings. No one should be surprised if they attended an online empowerment, live or recorded from one teacher, only to be told by another teacher the latter do not consider that a valid means of empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 1st, 2021 at 1:17 AM
Title: Re: How to practice quietly with bell?
Content:
Dharmaswede said:
How do you do practice quietly with the bell – early in the morning when family is still asleep?

Thank you.

Malcolm wrote:
You don't use the bell.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 1st, 2021 at 1:16 AM
Title: Re: Can you give back tantric vows if you don't want them anymore?
Content:


WeiHan said:
Will one be parted from the guru who leads one to liberation if one has more than one guru but break samaya only with one of them?

Malcolm wrote:
What do you mean by "break samaya."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 28th, 2021 at 9:36 PM
Title: Re: Does anyone here agree with Jay Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist" and...
Content:
Dgj said:
Does anyone here agree with Garfield that Nagarjuna was a "robust realist"

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t. Jay Garfield principally draws on Gelug sources, but even here, it goes to far to say the MMK is realist. The Sideritz translation is better, BTW.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 27th, 2021 at 4:14 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
Hey Malcolm,

Could you clarify why Mipham seems to want to establish a cognitive element at the time of Buddhahood? Does he believe without it there could be no awareness in Buddahood ? Do you think he’s worried that people would essentially interpret the state of Buddhahood without a cognitive element as merely dissolving into nothingness hence his worry about nihilism without it.

I’ll be honest, I believe I’m confusing the categories above that you said most people stumble on. I’ll admit that from my current understanding I don’t know how there can be said to be awareness at the time of Buddhahood if there’s no cognitive element even if it is said to be luminous. That all being said I appreciate the time and effort you and everyone on this thread has given to talk through this and help me see my ignorance.

Malcolm wrote:
What Rongzom seeks to show is that everything is not only like an illusion, but that everything is totally equivalent to an illusion.

If your concern is that buddhahood is an inert state, no, that is not what Rongzom is saying. He is saying that buddhahood amounts to realizing the luminous nature of the mind, which is not itself established as an entity.

The Mantra Mongoose said:
Oh ok, so Rongzom’s whole contention is with people who say that there is something substantial and not empty in Buddhahood.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, he is an anti-realist.

The Mantra Mongoose said:
What he is saying is not only is everything illusory meaning empty, but so is Buddahood itself. So from beginning  to end it’s all like a rainbow.

Malcolm wrote:
From top to bottom, it's all totally unreal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 27th, 2021 at 3:22 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
Hey Malcolm,

Could you clarify why Mipham seems to want to establish a cognitive element at the time of Buddhahood? Does he believe without it there could be no awareness in Buddahood ? Do you think he’s worried that people would essentially interpret the state of Buddhahood without a cognitive element as merely dissolving into nothingness hence his worry about nihilism without it.

I’ll be honest, I believe I’m confusing the categories above that you said most people stumble on. I’ll admit that from my current understanding I don’t know how there can be said to be awareness at the time of Buddhahood if there’s no cognitive element even if it is said to be luminous. That all being said I appreciate the time and effort you and everyone on this thread has given to talk through this and help me see my ignorance.

Malcolm wrote:
What Rongzom seeks to show is that everything is not only like an illusion, but that everything is totally equivalent to an illusion.

If your concern is that buddhahood is an inert state, no, that is not what Rongzom is saying. He is saying that buddhahood amounts to realizing the luminous nature of the mind, which is not itself established as an entity.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 27th, 2021 at 12:53 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
Matt J said:
The absence of a cognitive element doesn't mean the absence of clarity (gsal ba)--- or does it?

Malcolm wrote:
It does not mean the absence of luminosity. But Rongzom's point is a bit different. The term "gnosis", "jñāna", ye shes, throws people off because it is assumed there is some content to this "gnosis."

Rongzom's arguments in Intro to Mahāyāna are long, complex.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 27th, 2021 at 12:30 AM
Title: Re: Lama Lena Testimonies/Credentials
Content:
philji said:
Who is this Candice Rinpoche she is introducing this weekend on you tube?

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=12207


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 27th, 2021 at 12:17 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
I need to do some reading once I'm done with this school quarter it seems.

Malcolm wrote:
What Rongzom is making a distinction between is the pristine consciousness of the basis, which he equates with self-originated pristine consciousness and nonconceptual pristine consciousness, which is relative and arises from concepts.

So what does he say "self-originated" pristine consciousness is? He states that is the luminous nature of the mind. This is the only kind of "pristine consciousness" a buddha can be said to posses. But we also posses this, right now.

He details three basic kinds of gnosis or pristine consciousness: non-conceptual, pure-mundane, and self-originated. The first two are two types of gnosis with which we are generally familiar. The third is the so-called "self-originated gnosis."

Rongzom is arguing merely that all phenomena are self-originated gnosis:

"Observe that all experiential ranges self arise as self-originated pristine consciousness." Experiential range refers to the experiential range of the sense organs of the six migrating beings. Self-originated pristine consciousness refers to the fact that since all formations are peaceful by nature, pristine consciousness self-originated.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 11:38 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
She is citing Mipham, correct? Not Rongzom, correct?

The Mantra Mongoose said:
Hey Malcolm, i really have no reason to disagree with you if i'm being honest. I lack the knowledge and skill needed to be able to really discuss this any further though ill give it a shot. That being the case there is another quotation from the work" Rong-zom-pa’s Discourses on Buddhology by Orna Almogi" i previous quoted that seems to be contradicting your statement, and does cite sources from Mipham


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 10:19 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
So I've been reading through "Rong-zom-pa’s Discourses on Buddhology' by Orna Almogi. It does seem like Archie2009 alluded to that Mipham seems interpret Rongzom in a way to suggest that what he was refuting was extrinsic Gnosis, and not self occurring Gnosis. This discussion starts on Page 193 of her work. ill quote the portion of the work i'm referring to below as i think its an interesting addition to the discussion.

Malcolm wrote:
An extrinsic gnosis is one obtained from outside, like a guru or a book. Self-orginated gnosis is a gnosis one discovers for oneself. But when it has exhausted all objects of knowledge, it too vanishes. Thus Buddhas do not possess gnosis. This a special point of Dzogchen, unshared with the nine yanas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 9:10 AM
Title: Re: Superiority Conceit in Buddhist Traditions
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
As far as "cultural imperialism", honestly I don't completely dislike Harris, I think he is worth listening to, just very wrong on a number of things. He is definitely a cultural imperialist.

Malcolm wrote:
There is not a whole lot of daylight between bigots like Harris and Gavin McInnes.

Johnny Dangerous said:
For me the jury is still a bit out on Harris personally I don't find him to be morally repugnant in the manner of McInnes, I just find a lot of his arguments....not nearly as brilliant or insightful as he and many of his fans think they are.

On the general subject, yeah, I was just talking to a friend about this yesterday.

It's interesting how many of these "classical liberal" "intellectual dark web" whatever types that won't just take a stand against the right wingers have slowly gravitated towards lending their tacit endorsement to them. It's weird to watch the transition happen to some of them.

They go from making some pretty limited and sometimes valid criticisms about some specific things on the left - identity politics, cancel culture, whatever, to basically just turning into mini-mouthpieces for some despicable people and ideas.

Malcolm wrote:
In my judgement it merely reveals who they were from the start. A truly virtuous person does not begin to engage in non virtues merely because the environment is permissive.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 8:18 AM
Title: Sam Harris and cultural imperialism
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
As far as "cultural imperialism", honestly I don't completely dislike Harris, I think he is worth listening to, just very wrong on a number of things. He is definitely a cultural imperialist.

Malcolm wrote:
There is not a whole lot of daylight between bigots like Harris and Gavin McInnes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
Matt J said:
This sounds very Shentong to me.

The Mantra Mongoose said:
I was looking into Rongzom’s writings, and came across an interpretation of his views on Buddhahood that seem to suggest he believed that ultimately Buddhas do not have Gnosis rather Buddhahood is simply “the purified expanse of reality( Dharmadhatu, Chos Dbyings)”

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not. Rongzom specifically rejects proto-gzhan stong ideas and stakes out a radical anti-realist position, because...he is a dzogchenpa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 6:43 AM
Title: Re: Are there any realist schools (mind independent reality exists conventionally) in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
Content:
Matt J said:
Wait, what? You are an IDEALIST after all. A Yogacarin once removed?

Malcolm wrote:
It is axiomatic in Buddhism that matter arises from mind, even in Abhidharma.
Nice try. It’s not that matter is mind stuff, but with the action of sentient beings in the world, matter, the four elements won’t arise. The reason the universe forms (repeatedly) is due to the afflictions and karma of sentient beings. Thus it is axiomatic that matter arises from mind, since only the mind, as Candra puts it, is capable of being a creator. Matter is not  so capable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 5:43 AM
Title: Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - Vikalpa
Content:



Queequeg said:
In the Buddhist view, what happens to a Hindu yogi who has achieved nirvakalpa samadhi? Do they reach only to neither-thought-nor-no-thought heaven? Presumably then they would continue to course in samsara, not attain moksha as they hold.

Malcolm wrote:
The result of nirvikalpa samadhi is the heaven of the unconsciousness devas, not even the formless realms.


Queequeg said:
I'm guessing we will be getting around to some of these questions as we work through the text?


Malcolm wrote:
Yup.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 5:14 AM
Title: Re: Are there any realist schools (mind independent reality exists conventionally) in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
Content:


Dgj said:
I'm stuck on one point, though, that makes it sound like Chandrakirti taught that matter cannot exist independently of mind, or even that matter is created by mind:

Malcolm wrote:
It is axiomatic in Buddhism that matter arises from mind, even in Abhidharma.

However, what this means is clarified by Chandra in chapter 6 of the MAV. Verses 113-114 clarify that Madhyamakas do not reject mundane consensus concerning outer objects.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 4:20 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:


The Mantra Mongoose said:
Thanks for the insight. I did have a question though which may shed light on were my confusion is coming from. How do those that follow specifically Jigten Sumgon’s Gongchick teachings square them away with Dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
I honestly don't know what is says in Gongcik, I have never studied it.

I know however that Gampopa's view of gnosis is more or less the same as Rongzom's. You can discover this by reading chapter 20 of Gampopa's Jewel Ornament of Liberation, where he dismisses the idea that the twin gnosis of a buddha are anything but illusory and do not exist ultimately. He summarizes his position as follows:

"That being the case, the Buddha is the dharmakāya. Since the dharmakāya is nonarising and free from proliferation, it does not possess gnosis. Now then, if it is said that this contradicts the teachings in sūtra that that there are two gnoses, there is no contradiction. Just as when an eye consciousness arises appearing as blue, it is said "blue is seen," likewise, that gnosis that becomes the dharmadhātu is maintained to be the gnosis of how things are. Since the gnosis that knows as much as there is to know is relative, it is defined as an appearance for those to be tamed."

So, in this way, we can see that there is little difference between Rongzom and Gampopa's perspectives.

The Mantra Mongoose said:
Hey Malcolm,

Just so I’m I know I’m understanding you correctly. Rongzom’s main contention is with people who believe that the the so called twin Gnosis of the Buddha’s exist substantially as constituents of enlightenment itself.he believes they are the illusionary means Manifested by Buddha’s due to there past aspirations/compassion to assist sentient beings and lead them towards enlightenment alone. Rongzom/Gampopa would both agree though that in Buddhahood there is a so called Gnosis, but that it’s only constituents are the purified space of the Dharmadhatu which is ultimately inconceivable. Is this correct?

Malcolm wrote:
No, they do not agree that there is gnosis in buddhahood. They expressly deny this position. Gampopa states it clearly here:

The Buddha is the dharmakāya. Since the dharmakāya is nonarising and free from proliferation, it does not possess gnosis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 4:16 AM
Title: Re: Śūraṅgama Sūtra
Content:
Unknown said:
On Monday, March 1, Dr. James Benn of McMaster University is giving the lecture “Meditation in the Apocryphal Śūraṃgama Sutra” at Harvard. He notes, “In the later Chinese Buddhist tradition [this] text above all others has been extolled for the profundity of its ideas, the beauty of its language, and its insight into the practice of meditation.”

No wonder it was one of the Manchu Qianlong Emperor’s favorite texts. Because this sutra did not exist in Tibetan, one of the major translation projects undertaken by Qianlong and his Imperial Preceptor Changkya Rolpai Dorje was its translation from Chinese into Tibetan, as well as Mongolian and Manchu. Our library holds a copy of this Tibetan translation published in Beijing in 1779, and readers can see that it contains a preface from the Emperor himself. As it turns out, Professor Benn notes that scholars have concluded that Śūraṃgama is an apocryphal sutra fabricated in Chinese in the eighth century, with no Indic original.

The sutra begins with the seduction of the Buddha’s disciple Ānanda by a courtesan. On the brink of breaking his vow of celibacy, he is rescued by the Buddha’s recitation of the Śūraṃgama mantra. Mortified at his failing, Ananda makes a request for this teaching, the basis of the sutra, which can be said to be about Buddhist theories of consciousness. The Buddha says to Ānanda citing the benefits of the Śūraṃgama sutra and the Śūraṃgama mantra: “Ānanda, even in an infinite number of eons I could not fully describe the benefit that beings will gain from reciting this Sutra and from holding this mantra in their minds. By relying on this teaching that I have given you, and by practicing just as I have instructed you, you will go directly to full awakening without creating any more karma that would lead to entanglement in the demonic.”

Malcolm wrote:
https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/harvardbuddhiststudiesforum/event/james-benn-meditation-apocryphal-%C5%9B%C5%ABra%E1%B9%83gama-sutra?fbclid=IwAR0qdtKsTQqdxtVcgKbMIc2M02SYV0pC-3cFC8lkJgbeyP0OjAC2HuXx5Ls


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 3:54 AM
Title: Re: Are there any realist schools (mind independent reality exists conventionally) in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
Content:


Dgj said:
Really great would be a text by Chandrakirti or Nagarjuna, or another Madhyamaka giant, affirming that sense consciousness can only arise when a sense organ meets a sense object, and thus indirectly confirming mind independent reality on the conventional level.

Malcolm wrote:
Madhyamakāvatara explains this explicitly in its refutation of Yogacāra idealism. So does Śantideva.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 3:51 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:


The Mantra Mongoose said:
Thanks for the insight. I did have a question though which may shed light on were my confusion is coming from. How do those that follow specifically Jigten Sumgon’s Gongchick teachings square them away with Dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
I honestly don't know what is says in Gongcik, I have never studied it.

I know however that Gampopa's view of gnosis is more or less the same as Rongzom's. You can discover this by reading chapter 20 of Gampopa's Jewel Ornament of Liberation, where he dismisses the idea that the twin gnosis of a buddha are anything but illusory and do not exist ultimately. He summarizes his position as follows:

"That being the case, the Buddha is the dharmakāya. Since the dharmakāya is nonarising and free from proliferation, it does not possess gnosis. Now then, if it is said that this contradicts the teachings in sūtra that that there are two gnoses, there is no contradiction. Just as when an eye consciousness arises appearing as blue, it is said "blue is seen," likewise, that gnosis that becomes the dharmadhātu is maintained to be the gnosis of how things are. Since the gnosis that knows as much as there is to know is relative, it is defined as an appearance for those to be tamed."

So, in this way, we can see that there is little difference between Rongzom and Gampopa's perspectives.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 3:26 AM
Title: Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - Vikalpa
Content:


Queequeg said:
We could say, its all about destroying vikalpa, couldn't we.

Vaibhsikas identify three vikalpas - these are listed above as svabhavavikalpa, abhinirupanavikalpa, and anusmaranavikalpa. The five sense consciousnesses only have the first kind of vipalka which is the same as vitarka.

Vasubandhu goes on to explain that basically all mental activity that is not dhyana is vikalpa.

Malcolm wrote:
Vikalpa, rnam rtog, is pretty much the main problem. Dhyānas are one pointed direct perceptions, so are free of vikalpa. Direct perceptions of sense objects are also free of vikalpa.

Being free of vikalpa is not liberation, this is why Hindu nirvikalpa samadhi is not liberation, but when someone has insight into emptiness, then there is no difference between nirvikalpa samadhi and vajropama samadhi, they are in fact the same thing.

M

Queequeg said:
I had to look up those samadhis so please correct me if its apparent I'm missing something.

Does this mean, if a Hindu yogi has an insight about emptiness, they will be at the completion stage of the pancamarga? Will they proceed to arhatship or buddhahood if they continue? Or does something else need to intervene in that path to bring them to completion?

Malcolm wrote:
A hindu, by definition will not have a proper insight into emptiness because they do not possess the view of dependent origination.

The two samadhis are the same: what is different is the person who is in those samadhis. In the case of hindus, that samadhi is not liberative, think of it as super-śamatha. In the case of a buddhist, it is the samadhi that arises beyond the āyatana of neither perception nor nonperception, the highest state of samsara, and is the samadhi that destroys all remaining traces of latent affliction, hence it is called "vajra-like."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 3:21 AM
Title: Re: Why lung or transmission is needed
Content:
Matt J said:
Nice memory!

Not the lung, but the explanation, for the Blazing Lamp Tantra.

Why doesn't tradition apply to suttas and sutras then?

Malcolm wrote:
It does and it doesn't. The lung for everything in the Bka' 'gyur exists. Not everything in the bstan 'gyur has a lung.

Matt J said:
And why don't non-Tibetan schools do lung? And what about teacher who recommend or ask students to read certain books without giving lung?

Malcolm wrote:
Prior to the destruction of Buddhism in China in 845, there was a very robust tradition of sutra recitation in Chinese Monasteries. The same goes for Indian Buddhism. It is likely Tibetan custom of giving lungs comes from this. Also, there was more literacy in China and Indian than there ever was in Tibet until modern times. So reading transmissions are also an opportunity for people to hear books they otherwise could not read. And paper was scarce and expensive in Tibet, so only elite scholars actually could afford more than a few books.

If someone's teacher tells you to read a book, you should read it. If you want to give the transmission yourself, better get the lung.


Matt J said:
If you look at EPK's Flight of the Garuda, it says:

"It is the opinion of myself and Dudjom Rinpoche that texts such as these should only be shared with people who have received
the pointing-out transmission from a qualified master."

H.H. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

Malcolm wrote:
I am quite sure, practically speaking, they would prefer people to have the lung as well.

The practice of giving reading transmissions is how we keep our tradition alive and vital.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 3:10 AM
Title: Re: Are there any realist schools (mind independent reality exists conventionally) in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
Content:



Dgj said:
Okay, please forget what you take issue with in my example, then, and be so kind as to answer the question? Are there any schools of Mahayana or Vajrayana Buddhism that teach that mind independent reality exists conventionally?

Malcolm wrote:
Conventionally, they all do.

Dgj said:
Thanks. Could you provide any text or texts confirming this? Either ancient or modern, where it is stated specifically that mind independent reality exists conventionally? I've only seen ones that affirm conventional reality broadly, and many (myself included, yet with difficulty reconciling this with other texts, hence this thread), assume this includes mind independent reality, but when actually reading texts I've not seen any specific affirmation of conventional mind independent reality.

Malcolm wrote:
Since the mainline of Madhyamaka schools accept the Śravakayāna model of cognition, a sense consciousness only arises when the sense organ meets a sense object, this itself is a confirmation of the idea that Madhyamaka conventionally accepts object which exist independent of the mind.

Similarly, in the Dzogchen tradition, it is held that outer objects exist conventionally.

However, the term "realist" is problematical. Madhyamaka is not a realist school, unlike the lower three tenet systems.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 2:25 AM
Title: Re: Why lung or transmission is needed
Content:
Matt J said:
Doing things just because it has been the way things were done is not a good reason, in my opinion.

Malcolm wrote:
Tradition, of course, disagrees. But weren't you the one saying you were not going to read one of the tantras I translated until you had received the lung? Pretty sure it was you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 2:21 AM
Title: Re: Are there any realist schools (mind independent reality exists conventionally) in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
Content:
Matt J said:
So a wallet that has no color, size, shape, texture, feeling sensation, or sound (since those are all qualia, i.e. mind)?

Dgj said:
So, for example, a school that teaches that your long lost and forgotten wallet still exists, even though you can't see it, don't think about it, and it is completely out of mind. It is under a bunch of brush in the forest where you went for a hike six months ago.
Okay, please forget what you take issue with in my example, then, and be so kind as to answer the question? Are there any schools of Mahayana or Vajrayana Buddhism that teach that mind independent reality exists conventionally?

Malcolm wrote:
Conventionally, they all do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 26th, 2021 at 1:19 AM
Title: Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - Vikalpa
Content:


Queequeg said:
We could say, its all about destroying vikalpa, couldn't we.

Vaibhsikas identify three vikalpas - these are listed above as svabhavavikalpa, abhinirupanavikalpa, and anusmaranavikalpa. The five sense consciousnesses only have the first kind of vipalka which is the same as vitarka.

Vasubandhu goes on to explain that basically all mental activity that is not dhyana is vikalpa.

Malcolm wrote:
Vikalpa, rnam rtog, is pretty much the main problem. Dhyānas are one pointed direct perceptions, so are free of vikalpa. Direct perceptions of sense objects are also free of vikalpa.

Being free of vikalpa is not liberation, this is why Hindu nirvikalpa samadhi is not liberation, but when someone has insight into emptiness, then there is no difference between nirvikalpa samadhi and vajropama samadhi, they are in fact the same thing.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 11:17 PM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
Why must all beings start out deluded?

Malcolm wrote:
All beings are subject to rebirth, and any being subject to rebirth is necessarily deluded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 11:09 PM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
Hey Malcolm,

Thanks so much for your reply. I’m still trying to wrap my head around the ramifications/conclusions of having such a view in light of the other views of Buddahood I’ve encountered. Though it makes more sense if I look at it from a Dzogchen Mindset rather then trying to dip into sutra as well. I’m probably gonna pick up the two works I see that are out in English as you have peaked my interest. It also humbles me and makes me realize I didn’t have the understanding I though I had of My teachers instruction in Dzogchen.

Malcolm wrote:
In reality, Ronzom's view is no different than that of Mañjuśṛīmitra's:

Since the awakening of the sugata does not exist, his magical apparitions appear to the deluded, similar to an illusion.

This is no different than Haribhadra's assertion that from beginning to end, the entire path is an illusion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 10:50 AM
Title: Re: Why lung or transmission is needed
Content:
Matt J said:
I would also be curious if anyone has a source for lung for reading (as opposed to practices/mantra). Personally, I have doubts about whether one needs a lung to read commentaries, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s an ancient tradition left over from when sutras, vinaya, and abhidharma were only preserved orally. This is also why it is important to preserve this tradition for our most important texts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 10:32 AM
Title: Re: Rongzom Chökyi Zangpo‘s understanding of Buddhahood and Gnosis
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
. Could someone explain to me if this is actually correct,

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. It is correct.


The Mantra Mongoose said:
and does the lineage as a whole embrace his views or is it still debated?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes and no.

The Mantra Mongoose said:
Also, if someone would be willing to show me how that compares to other views held in the Nyigmapa lineage on Buddhahood and Gnosis I would greatly appreciate it. Given the importance and erudition he is said to have in the Nyigmapa Lineage/Tibetan Buddhism I find him really interesting and would love to learn all I can about his views.

Malcolm wrote:
Rongzom’s view is the real Nyingma View. It is followed by both Longchenpa and Mipham.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 10:26 AM
Title: Re: Can you give back tantric vows if you don't want them anymore?
Content:
Boomerang said:
For anyone who happens upon this thread years in the future, you can read page 192 of the Kindle version of The Treasury of Knowledge: Book Five: Buddhist Ethics by Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche and see that returning bodhisattva vows is not possible:

"Although the returning of vows is permitted in the personal liberation system, to return the commitments of the awakening mind would have extremely serious consequences and is therefore absolutely prohibited.

Dying, being reborn, forgetting [one’s previous existence], and so on, do not damage one’s commitments."

You can read that returning tantric vows is not possible in chapters 20 and 23 of Chogyam Trungpa's The Tantric Path of Indestructible Wakefulness: The Profound Treasury of the Ocean of Dharma, Volume Three.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. This is all correct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 6:04 AM
Title: Re: Can you give back tantric vows if you don't want them anymore?
Content:
cjdevries said:
I just read this. https://buddhism-controversy-blog.com/2012/06/25/offering-back-buddhist-vows/

An excerpt: "What was new to me is what our Tantra teacher in Italy, Geshe Jampa Gelek who studied the Buddhist Tantras in India, said some weeks ago: you can also give back the Bodhisattva and the Vajrayana vows."

Malcolm wrote:
As I said, there is no procedure for giving back bodhisattva vows, and by extension, Vajrayāna vows, since the latter are connected with the former, though lost a death. I have studied the three vows literature very extensively, and there is just no such remedy provided in the tantras or the sūtras for returning such vows.

One can certainly decide one no longer wishes to follow them, but there is no way to formally return them without incurring a downfall, unlike monastic vows, in which you can return them to the person who ordained you, or failing that, a senior member of the ordained sangha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 4:43 AM
Title: Re: Can you give back tantric vows if you don't want them anymore?
Content:


Boomerang said:
I made this thread because I met a person who believes every type of vow can be returned in their sangha, including vajrayana vows.

Malcolm wrote:
They are mistaken on this point. One also cannot return bodhisattva vows. The only vows that can be returned are monastic vows.

Well, one can forsake refuge vows, but then you break everything.

Boomerang said:
Is there a text that explains this in plain language?

Malcolm wrote:
Not really. Bodhisattva vows and Vajrayāna vows only discuss violations, but not the procedure for returning them, since there is no procedure for returning them. The desire to return either of these two levels of vows is a violation of bodhisattva motivation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 2:21 AM
Title: Re: Can you give back tantric vows if you don't want them anymore?
Content:


Boomerang said:
I made this thread because I met a person who believes every type of vow can be returned in their sangha, including vajrayana vows.

Malcolm wrote:
They are mistaken on this point. One also cannot return bodhisattva vows. The only vows that can be returned are monastic vows.

Well, one can forsake refuge vows, but then you break everything.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 2:19 AM
Title: Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - vitarka and vicara
Content:
Queequeg said:
In the arupadhatu, where beings manifest without manodhatu...
Is this correct? Reviewing, I'm not sure I made an accurate statement.

Manodhatu is not form, right? So it could very well persist in the arupadhatu... ?

Malcolm wrote:
Beings in the formless realm only have three dhātus: mano, manovijñāna, and dharma. There is no matter in the dharmadhātu. Their mind is only a past mind, since they are supported their on the formless realm samadhi that projected their birth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 12:39 AM
Title: Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - vitarka and vicara
Content:


Queequeg said:
Which, I understand is kind of the point of studying this stuff. We're not studying this just to acquire knowledge, but rather to inform our practice, to make our practice more effective by finely understanding how all of this tends to work in order to liberate from these limits and obstacles formed by grasping.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct. This is the anatomy of Buddhist teachings which apply to every higher tenet system, up to and including Dzogchen teachings. They explain the raison d'être of the Buddhist path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 12:36 AM
Title: Re: Movies you have watched a lot of times.
Content:
PeterC said:
You've heard the story of the samurai sword presented to Harvey Weinstein?

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.boredpanda.com/studio-ghibli-sent-sword-to-harvey-weinstein/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 25th, 2021 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: Can you give back tantric vows if you don't want them anymore?
Content:
pemachophel said:
Tantric vows last for lifetime after lifetime.

Malcolm wrote:
No, they do not. They perish at death because they are connected with the body.

The only vow not lost at death is the bodhisattva vow.

So what is the impact of not keeping pure samaya in this life? In future lives, one will be parted from the guru who leads one to liberation. However, the vow itself is lost at death. This is why it is important for people to purify their samaya before they die.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 11:23 PM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Since there are latent sentient beings, there are never actually any “new” ones. Liberation also does not mean a sentient being vanishes.

Queequeg said:
I'm a little surprised because I always thought that buddhas and arhats are not sattvas ie. sentient beings. This is because they are not subject to compulsive rebirth due to karma. If they are sattvas, this suggests that buddhas and arhats are something qualitatively different than is commonly described in Buddhism or sattva means something other than what is generally explained.

Also, if sattvas are infinite (and that is a fraught conception, but since we're wallowing in conceptions here, why not?) then its not possible to say that there is any increase or decrease, and so the implication that sattvas are infinite seems as plausible an implication as saying they are finite.

Is there commentary on this point supporting your interpretation?


Malcolm wrote:
All buddhas, etc. were once sentient beings. They therefore count as part of the sattva dhātu for the purposes of enumerating the limit of that dhātu. In order for the sattva dhātu to be infinite, it would have to admit new members. It is not like an infinite set of numbers, which are pure abstractions. No buddha starts out a buddha. They all were sentient beings first.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 11:19 PM
Title: Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - vitarka and vicara
Content:
Queequeg said:
It also occurred to me why we are covering this now, and this is obvious, except I have been drowning a little in this chapter - Vasubandhu is explaining the category of Dhatu, which includes categories of both form and mind (citta). Mental factors clearly do not pertain to form, only citta. I am getting that he is pointing out these distinctions between categories of dhatus.
Following up on this - it is thus interesting that manodhatu, manovijnanadhatu and dharmadhatu, at least in the kamadhatu, all are associated with vitarka and vicara. The implication being that all three - the mind organ and mind objects as well as conciousness are not rupa (form).

This stands in contrast to Western Scientific Materialism that reduces the mind organ, its objects and consciousness to matter.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct. The perceptions of the five sense organs are nonconceptual vijñānas, since vijñāna is always nonconceptual, being a present mind. Manas is conceptual, being a "past" mind, that is not a mind in the past, but a mentation of past events.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 11:17 PM
Title: Re: Movies you have watched a lot of times.
Content:


mirrormind said:
12 Monkeys is particularly great to rewatch during a pandemic

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, try 28 Days Later for pandemic entertainment. Just imagine all the infected are Trumpistas. That's what it felt like living in America for the past four years.

Queequeg said:
LOL

Jan. 6 at the Capitol Building:

Malcolm wrote:
Pretty much.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: Movies you have watched a lot of times.
Content:


mirrormind said:
12 Monkeys is particularly great to rewatch during a pandemic

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, try 28 Days Later for pandemic entertainment. Just imagine all the infected are Trumpistas. That's what it felt like living in America for the past four years.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 10:08 PM
Title: Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 32: Dhatus - vitarka and vicara
Content:
Queequeg said:
I was not sure what vitarka and vicara were, so I looked it up. A footnote refers to Ch. 2, vv. 28 & 33. That was not particularly helpful.
Ch. 2, V. 33 reads:
"Vitarka and vicara are grossness and subtlety of the mind."
The footnote there says this definition is from some unknown sutra.

These are caitasika - mental factors.

Vitarka is translated as "thoughts," "applied thought," or "applied attention" in the Princeton Dictionary of Buddhism. It "refers to the momentary advertence toward the chosen object of attention." It is of an indeterminate moral quality and can refer both to the ordinary mind turning from one object to the next, or it can refer to the direction of the mind to an object of contemplation in the first dhyana, dropping off thereafter.

Vicara is translated as "sustained thought," "sustained attention," "imagination," and "analysis" in the PDB. It is "the continued pondering of things." It is of an indeterminate moral quality and can refer to sustained thinking about an object in ordinary mind as well as sustained contemplation in the dhyanas, including the first dhyana.

This section considers the Eighteen Dhatus from the perspective of the factors of vitarka and vicara.

The consciousnesses associated with externalities - visual, auditory, olfactory, oral and tactile consciousnesses all include both vitarka and vicara. This is clear - visual consciousness can either be adverting to an object or sustaining attention to an object.

Now, with regard to the manodhatu (mental organ), manovijnanadhatu (mental consciousness), and dharmadhaytu (mental objects), in the Kamadhatu, they all have both vitarka and vicara. They are both present in the first dhyana. In the second, third and fourth dhyanas, there is no vitarka but there is vicara. Once one has turned their attention to an object, and one capable of the dhyanas is by definition capable of maintaining attention, vitarka is done. In the arupadhatu, where beings manifest without manodhatu, vicara drops away.

The 5 sense organs and their 5 respective objects do not have vitarka and vicara because these are factors of mind.

Malcolm wrote:
They important mental factors in the first dhyana/shamatha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Interesting discussion.

The following post is from about 3.5 years ago; but I remembered about it, and thought I’d search it up:



Losal Samten said:
Presumably because just as time is infinite, so are sentient beings, so mathematically speaking there's always going to be someone that's out of reach. (IIRC that was one Yogacarin argument for the existence of icchantikas?)

Some sutras state that the sattvadhatu neither increases nor decreases (anunatvaapurnatva), is this to be only understood in the non-conceptual ultimate sense, or relatively too, since whether infinity +1, or infinity -1, it still equals infinity?

https://www.academia.edu/30408695/The_S%C5%ABtra_on_the_Residence_of_Ma%C3%B1ju%C5%9Br%C4%AB

Malcolm wrote:
This point is addressed by Longchenpa at the end of the difficult points chapter in the Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle.He resolves the difficulty by stating that while all sentient beings are liberated at the end of the great eon, because there is never any limit to latent traces in the dharmadhātu, new sentient beings can always arise. He claims these two points of view are not contradictory.


Sādhaka said:
Apparently contradictory, but as stated: It’s one of those difficult points.

Malcolm wrote:
Since there are latent sentient beings, there are never actually any “new” ones. Liberation also does not mean a sentient being vanishes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 11:24 AM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
finite almost makes it feel like a fixed number, just a number we don't know.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that what it is. A fixed number we can never know: n to the nth power. But it can never be more nor less than that.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 10:46 AM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:


mutsuk said:
I understand, but what/who fixed that limit? And does any Indian text (as Indians are really into numbers) define that limit?

Malcolm wrote:
What fixes that limit is just the fact that no new sentient beings come into existence. Its a consequence of dependent origination. It is a finite set; it may be uncountable, but it is still finite.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Although sentient beings occur,
There is nothing essential that truly exists
that can be defined as a “sentient being”,
Just as a tiger chasing one in a dream may certainly have a form, and may even produce in one a feeling  of fear (the dreaming person may even toss and turn and sweat, and of course everything that is a result has a cause!) and in that sense it occurs, it happens for sure, but ultimately none of it exists.

Malcolm wrote:
Uh huh, so I see you’ve grasped the basics of buddhadharma. Excellent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 10:08 AM
Title: Re: Movies you have watched a lot of times.
Content:
Rei un said:
For best ever tv series: Downton Abbey. Nothing else even close! (Of course, there's no accounting for taste.)

Malcolm wrote:
I think All Creatures Great And Small is better. Whereas Downtown Abbey is about a family of entitled and neurotic snobs, who despite their position and conditioning engage in acts of surprising kindness, ACGS is about a young Glaswegian vet selflessly and lovingly giving himself to the care of the people and animals of a small, rural town in Yorkshire.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 5:35 AM
Title: Re: Movies you have watched a lot of times.
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I have to confess also that as I've gotten older and more generally exhausted I also like watching more...um, purely "entertainment" stuff.

That's putting it politely, the truth is, I watch some trashy stuff to relax.

Malcolm wrote:
Looking forward to Monster Hunters...when it is rentable for cheap...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 5:33 AM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:



Queequeg said:
A sentient being that awakens is no longer a sentient being, but a Buddha... so that means with each awakened being, there is one less sentient... ie. a decrease. That can't stand because that's wrong view.

Malcolm wrote:
A buddha's consciousness does not vanish into thin air. So in this case, still a sattva since Buddha began as a sattva, like all of us.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 5:31 AM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There has to be a limit to sentient beings, otherwise, where do new sentient beings come from?

mutsuk said:
I understand, but what/who fixed that limit? And does any Indian text (as Indians are really into numbers) define that limit?

Malcolm wrote:
What fixes that limit is just the fact that no new sentient beings come into existence. Its a consequence of dependent origination. It is a finite set; it may be uncountable, but it is still finite.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 4:52 AM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:
mutsuk said:
The English translation can be found here :

https://daitangkinh.net/Books/T16n0668/Buddha%20Pronounces%20the%20Sutra%20of%20Neither%20Increase%20Nor%20Decrease%20%28Rulu%29.html

Not really convincing in terms of explaining "finite number of sentient beings" imho... In fact the text does not discuss if there is a finite or infinite number but declares "increase and decrease in sentient beings" as a wrong view. It equates the dharma realm which neither increases or decreases with the real of sentient beings. So that is clear but it does not discuss if there is a finite or infinite number of sentient beings. Or am I missing something?

Malcolm wrote:
There has to be a limit to sentient beings, otherwise, where do new sentient beings come from? It is not possible for there to be brand-new sentient beings.

It just stands to reason that there is a finite number of sentient beings, despite that number being beyond any comprehension.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 4:34 AM
Title: Re: Can you give back tantric vows if you don't want them anymore?
Content:
fckw said:
You can only give them back if you did not take them seriously in the first place.

Malcolm wrote:
No, one cannot give back Vajrayāna vows. Practice commitments are one thing; the general samayas are another.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 3:46 AM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:



mutsuk said:
Yes, a source would be nice. It's interesting because it contradicts Wohnyo who pretends that the finite number of sentient beings "is a big error". I wonder if he means that in the sense of a "finite number" fixed by who/what?

Malcolm wrote:
Its in the Pali canon somewhere. When I find it again, I will post here. There is a statement to the effect that the sattva dhātu never increases or decreases.

Queequeg said:
Interesting. I think I've read that but can't recall where either. I didn't think of its import much at the time. My instinct would be to understand that as meaning infinite as an infinite quality, not as a quantity. I don't know if that makes sense. Is there commentary on this point as well?

Malcolm wrote:
It refers to the total number of sentient beings there are. That number is inconceivable, but still finite.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 3:39 AM
Title: Re: Movies you have watched a lot of times.
Content:


Matt J said:
Lillyhammer,

Malcolm wrote:
Hilarious. Full disclosure, I've watched both the Sopranos and the Wire at least twice in their entirety.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: Movies you have watched a lot of times.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Mad Max movies; Seven Samurai, Yojimbo; The Night Porter; but I mostly only watch films once.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 1:29 AM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
But, according to the Buddha, there is actually a finite number of sentient beings in the universe, they are considered limitless because cannot comprehend their number. But there is in fact a limit.

Queequeg said:
Where can one find the source of this?

mutsuk said:
Yes, a source would be nice. It's interesting because it contradicts Wohnyo who pretends that the finite number of sentient beings "is a big error". I wonder if he means that in the sense of a "finite number" fixed by who/what?

Malcolm wrote:
Its in the Pali canon somewhere. When I find it again, I will post here. There is a statement to the effect that the sattva dhātu never increases or decreases.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 24th, 2021 at 12:26 AM
Title: Re: Music time
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 23rd, 2021 at 5:48 AM
Title: Re: Niche Ngondros
Content:


heart said:
Getting mind instructions and doing ngondro at the same time was the way Tulku Urgyen taught and this is the way his his sons teach. So, you don't do the ngondro to achieve anything but merit and wisdom.

Malcolm wrote:
Have to pass the time somehow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 23rd, 2021 at 5:47 AM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
Sentient beings are unlimited in the sense that there are an infinite number of sentient beings in the universe!

Malcolm wrote:
But, according to the Buddha, there is actually a finite number of sentient beings in the universe, they are considered limitless because cannot comprehend their number. But there is in fact a limit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 23rd, 2021 at 5:46 AM
Title: Re: Alexander Berzin: "The Four Immeasurables (Brahma viharas) in Sravakayana, Mahayana and Bon"
Content:
Aemilius said:
"limited beings"

Malcolm wrote:
Sentient beings are limited by affliction. Affliction causes karma. Karma results in suffering: birth, aging, sickness, and death.

Thus, sentient beings are limited.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 23rd, 2021 at 4:06 AM
Title: Re: Do the 10 Royal Sutras require transmission?
Content:
Tenma said:
Just wanted to check, do the 10 Royal Sutras that Mipham Rinpoche prescribed require an oral transmission or we can freely recite them?

https://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/mipham/ten-royal-sutras-outline

Malcolm wrote:
Only these four will require some transmission. There are empowerments for all of them.

Tenma said:
Vajravidāraṇa, the sūtra of cleansing, has three parts: 1) the background, 2) the actual dhāraṇī, and 3) the conclusion, including the benefits.

Sitātapatrā, Born from the Tathāgata’s Uṣṇīṣa, the sūtra of dispelling, has three parts: 1) words of truth, 2) the mantra of true meaning, and 3) the unfailing results and benefits of the mantra.

The Blue-Clad Lord of Secrets (Vajrapāṇi), the sūtra of protection, has three parts: 1) the methods for the mantra, 2) the mantra that has such methods, and 3) the result of accomplishment from such methods.

The Stream of Wealth (Vasudhārā), the sūtra for increasing prosperity, has three parts: 1) the history, 2) the jewel-like dhāraṇī, and 3) the unfailing beneficial consequences that are the effects of the mantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 22nd, 2021 at 11:16 PM
Title: Re: Are there tertons at Gelug School?
Content:


n8pee said:
Luipa specifically? I've heard HHDL praise the body mandala of the Ghantapa tradition as well if I'm not mistaken.

Malcolm wrote:
The Ghantapāda body mandala system is the most profound of the three Cakrasamvara systems that came into Sakya through Mal Lotsawa. It is very widespread in Gelug.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 22nd, 2021 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: some hints on how to live
Content:


master of puppets said:
Meditation is letting your mind to wander in any direction and being aware of it.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is called “spacing out.”

Arnoud said:
Two questions, if you don't mind:

1. Do you think this idea is the result of misunderstanding the maxim "thoughts arise and cease within the state of Rigpa" which is often how it is expressed (somewhat) in order to teach not to suppress thoughts?

2. Isn't it still better than letting your mind wander without being aware of it? Or equally useless?

Malcolm wrote:
The kind of instruction given above lacks any context. It’s one if those things that sounds nice, lacks substance. We are not talking about Dzogchen here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 22nd, 2021 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: some hints on how to live
Content:


master of puppets said:
Meditation is letting your mind to wander in any direction and being aware of it.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is called “spacing out.”

philji said:
Is not spacing out being unaware???

Malcolm wrote:
No, it’s letting your mind be lost among sense objects.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 21st, 2021 at 11:43 PM
Title: Re: some hints on how to live
Content:


master of puppets said:
Meditation is letting your mind to wander in any direction and being aware of it.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is called “spacing out.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 21st, 2021 at 6:25 AM
Title: Re: Integrating psychedelic experiences
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
Can you point me to some studies? it's my impression that there is nowhere near the body evidence yet to suggest that something like replacing SSRI's with low does psilocybin or something is viable.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.ciis.edu/CPTR/CPTR%20Documents/CPTR%20PDFs/Commentary_Roth.pdf

Johnny Dangerous said:
Two independent studies by Griffiths et al. (2016) and Ross et al. (2016) demonstrate that psilocybin, a serotoninergic psy- chedelic, can produce a rapid and clinically significant decrease in the symptoms of depression and anxiety, which can persist for up to six months. Each study utilized a double-blind design and employed different active control compounds to address design- based confounds associated with the use of a psychoactive drug. Griffiths et al. (2016) used a low dose (1–3 mg) of psilocybin, while Ross et al. (2016) selected niacin. It is worth noting that the placebo effect is a major confound in the development of novel antidepressant drugs, as placebos can produce antidepressant effects in 30–40% of individuals (Papakostas et al., 2016). Psilocybin treatment was associated with statistically significant antidepressant and anxiolytic effects in both studies. The use of two separate control compounds (including a subclinical dose of psilocybin as control) minimizes the potential outcome that the effects are due to placebo rather than an active drug effect.

Malcolm wrote:
You can follow a clinical trial here:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT03775200

And here:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03429075


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 20th, 2021 at 4:58 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Crazywisdom said:
If you accept and reject it's mara.

Malcolm wrote:
I see you accepting and rejecting a lot of things in this thread, so?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 20th, 2021 at 4:43 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen books
Content:
Matt J said:
I actually wouldn't recommend any books because they'll fill up the head with ideas. I would find a teacher and get instruction--- one will have less to unlearn that way.

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, yes, but still, can't beat Crystal and the Way of Light.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 20th, 2021 at 3:38 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:



Crazywisdom said:
This is wrong. The deities are Dzogchen.

Malcolm wrote:
So the state of dzogchen has faces and hands? Really?

fckw said:
So, it's a state then?

Malcolm wrote:
Nominally speaking, and there is a path to discover that state. But if one thinks there are faces and hand in that state, that the shitro for example, is innate, one's view has not transcended mahāyoga, or so it is written by Longchenpa and others.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 20th, 2021 at 3:14 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Sādhaka said:
How are Atiyoga, sPyiti Yoga, and Yangti classified within Semde, Longde, and the four divisions of Menngagde (or vice-versa); if at all?

Malcolm wrote:
Yangti belongs to man ngag sde, according to ChNN.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
You have this penchant for conditioning folks toward the Dzogchen tantras way.

Malcolm wrote:
The Dzogchen tantras teach a vehicle independent of the nine yānas. YMMV.

Crazywisdom said:
Then why is it called the 9th? It is Ati, right?

Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen is beyond the nine vehicle system.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 10:59 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Danny said:
The symbolic transmission apparently is not a thing these days.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course it is a thing. All Dzogchen transmissions contain it. Whether the guru makes it clear or not is another issue altogether.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 10:51 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Crazywisdom said:
This is a variable. See how this is treated in Chetsun Nyingthig.  Hardly at all.

Malcolm wrote:
Rushen is quite important in the Chetsun Nyinthig System, indeed it is mentioned in the root text. But there is no point in discussing this further in this kind of open forum. You might want to acquire Khen Rinpoche's book on the subject.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 10:47 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
You have this penchant for conditioning folks toward the Dzogchen tantras way.

Malcolm wrote:
The Dzogchen tantras teach a vehicle independent of the nine yānas.  I am just following the teachings of ChNN. YMMV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 10:11 PM
Title: Re: Once DT Susuki went back to Pure Land practice (Split from: Are Zen teachers awakened?)
Content:
Queequeg said:
When you guys say Suzuki took up Pure Land, what does that mean? You guys talk about Pure Land as is it's a monolith. It's far from it.

Malcolm wrote:
I always rather admired Ippen, for example. I enjoyed the book on his life and writings, No Abode, the Record of Ippen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 9:51 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
Dzogchen is not a method. ChNN said that often. This is an important point.

Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen is a path, paths have methods. ChNN also stated this often. What ChNN said is that Dzogchen is not a technique.

Crazywisdom said:
Technique, path... The path is tregcho/togal. Or yangti. These are paths to realize Dzogchen

Malcolm wrote:
You left out rushen. This is indispensable on the path of Dzogchen. It enhances trekcho, and is the preliminary for thogal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Malcolm: whether there’s an invitation or not, the jnanasattva is a fiction and not to be taken seriously.

Malcolm wrote:
No, in mahayoga sadhanas, it is to be taken seriously as a symbolic method (but still a conceptual fabrication), just like it is in anuyoga.

But this does not apply to Dzogchen at all. The path is different, so the method is different.

Crazywisdom said:
Dzogchen is not a method. ChNN said that often. This is an important point.

Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen is a path, paths have methods. ChNN also stated this often. What ChNN said is that Dzogchen is not a technique.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 9:16 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
My point being that with or without invitation, the visualized deity is never dismissed as simply one’s own imagination/samayasattva. If there’s no invitation the presence of jnanasattva is assumed, not dismissed.

Malcolm wrote:
The creation stage deity is a conceptual construct, an antidote to other concepts. That's all. From a Dzogchen perspective, it is an deviation.

Crazywisdom said:
This is wrong. The deities are Dzogchen.

Malcolm wrote:
So the state of dzogchen has faces and hands? Really?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 10:31 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 4:16 AM
Title: Re: Integrating psychedelic experiences
Content:
Mindful Entity said:
Hello! I am new in this forum and I hope that I am posting this on the right board. Feel free to move the topic if necessary.
I have been experimenting with various psychedelics. I really believe that they have the potential to heal and help us. But the problem is that after the substance wears off and I come back to my normal state of consciousness, most of the revelations and insights fade away.
What are your views on this? How do you take the most from using these substances and what approaches do you take to integrate these experiences more deeply in your daily life?
Thank you!

Malcolm wrote:
There is nothing to integrate. Psychedelics only demonstrate one thing: the mind is not a fixed entity. Once you've sorted that, they are just entertainments.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 4:07 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
heart said:
My point was that it doesn't matter how you define yourself or your practice it have to correspond to your actual capacity.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, if you are interested in sadhanas, then you should practice those. If you are not, then you just practice rushen, etc.

heart said:
I done many rushan retreats but I don't feel that it is one or the other, it is all good.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
It's all whatever one likes to do. But while rushen is indispensable in Dzogchen, deity yogas are not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 3:36 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
heart said:
My point was that it doesn't matter how you define yourself or your practice it have to correspond to your actual capacity.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, if you are interested in sadhanas, then you should practice those. If you are not, then you just practice rushen, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 3:08 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
heart said:
But yes, strictly intellectually, there is no development and completion in Dzogchen. Unless you like Tulku Urgyen consider Tögal the natural development stage and Trechö the completion stage. So it is not so clean cut.

Malcolm wrote:
It is extremely clear cut in the tantras and commentaries, as well as in the teaching of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu.YMMV.

heart said:
Yes, I agree, but I don't want to limit myself like that.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, well, there is also the indirect approach to atiyoga through the creation and completion stage. It is not a question of limitation, but rather, definition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 2:23 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Malcolm: whether there’s an invitation or not, the jnanasattva is a fiction and not to be taken seriously.

Malcolm wrote:
No, in mahayoga sadhanas, it is to be taken seriously as a symbolic method (but still a conceptual fabrication), just like it is in anuyoga.

But this does not apply to Dzogchen at all. The path is different, so the method is different.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 2:21 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Heart said:
The same deity might have a long sadhana with an invitation of the jnanasattvas and very short sadhanas without.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
My point being that with or without invitation, the visualized deity is never dismissed as simply one’s own imagination/samayasattva. If there’s no invitation the presence of jnanasattva is assumed, not dismissed.

Malcolm wrote:
The creation stage deity is a conceptual construct, an antidote to other concepts. That's all. From a Dzogchen perspective, it is an deviation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 19th, 2021 at 12:52 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
heart said:
But yes, strictly intellectually, there is no development and completion in Dzogchen. Unless you like Tulku Urgyen consider Tögal the natural development stage and Trechö the completion stage. So it is not so clean cut.

Malcolm wrote:
It is extremely clear cut in the tantras and commentaries, as well as in the teaching of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu.YMMV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 18th, 2021 at 10:51 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
Nyingthig has deity yoga too.

Malcolm wrote:
Nyinthig cycles have anuyoga practices appended to them, it is true. But they are anuyoga practices of the three roots, where atiyoga is taken as the completion stage.

heart said:
If you read Sechen Gyaltsab's "Illuminating Jewel Mirror" translated in "Vajra Wisdom" you will see that not all agrees with that view. According to Sechen Gyaltsab there is a Dzogchen development stage. Anyway in most termas the distinction between what is maha, anu and ati is not so sharp. The same deity might have a long sadhana with an invitation of the jnanasattvas and very short sadhanas without. For example Auy Khandros Simhamukha sadhana, which have an invitation of the jnanasattvas but that is according to ChNNR is a anuyoga practice. So it rather complicated and not very clean cut.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Hi Magnus:

I addressed this discrepancy above. Some people consider arising without a seed syllable "Dzogchen development," but it is really just instant anuyoga creation stage. In Dzogchen proper, there is no creation and completion stage. In Dzogchen proper, there is no deity to create at all. Not understanding this point, many people mistake terms like "Dzogchen generation" for the actual practice of Dzogchen. You can ascertain this by looking up creation/generation stage in the index of the Tantra Without Syllables. But in particular, the deviations of the nine yānas are explained on pg. 180-181.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 18th, 2021 at 10:13 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
Nyingthig has deity yoga too.

Malcolm wrote:
Nyinthig cycles have anuyoga practices appended to them, it is true. But they are anuyoga practices of the three roots, where atiyoga is taken as the completion stage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 18th, 2021 at 5:37 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
"Fictions for beginners" is not higher tantra.

Malcolm wrote:
There are beginners in higher tantra. They usually come from lower tantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 18th, 2021 at 1:25 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I do not think he is mistaken about the higher tantras—at least as they are taught here. He’s not sloppy that way. However differences between specific lineages do occur, so there is that.

Malcolm wrote:
“Oh Vajrapāṇi, listen!
The vehicle of the great āgamas of Anuyoga
maintains that two aspects, the dhātu and pristine
consciousness,
are held to be the vajra of inseparability.
The entryway is either instant or gradual.
The view to be realized is inseparability.

If it is asked what is instant entry,
deities are not created, but perfected by merely recalling
the essence.
If it is asked what is gradual entry,
having gradually entered the dhātu and pristine
consciousness,
one obtains the result on the stage of Vajradhara.

Self Arisen Vidyā Tantra, pg. 188.

There are two approaches in Anuyoga. In the instant approach, there is no practice of the three samadhis and no summoning of a jñānasattva.

In the gradual approach, the three samadhis are summarized by the recollection of Samanbhadra, Samantabhadri, that is, pristine consciousness and the dhātu respectively, whose union results in the child, the seed syllable. In gradual Anuyoga sadhanas, there may be nominal jñānasattva, but the view is emphasized that there is no actual separation between the samayasattva and jñānasattva and nothing actually is invoked.

There is only one explanation of the three inner tantras: a Nyingma one. There is no such thing as a "Kagyu approach to the three inner tantras."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 17th, 2021 at 11:35 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Although if you want to practice with inviting the Jnanasattva in a Anuyoga Sadhana, it is part of Narag Tongtrug, if I’m not mistaken.

But yea I don’t think that it is usually included in Anuyoga Sadhanas in general.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, there are Anuyoga sadhanas that have lines to the effect, "the jñānasattva and the samayasattva are nondual from the beginning, rest in the state of that recognition" and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 17th, 2021 at 9:45 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
This function is generally abandoned at the level of anuyoga, and especially in ati yoga.
I ran this by someone who is fluent in Tibetan and has done the traditional Nyingma 3 year retreat. He said that as long as a dirty was involved the jnanasattva is invited at the beginning of the sadhana.

It is an academic issue for me since I don’t practice the higher Tantras. But I thought that since this is a public forum the misinformation should be tagged.

Malcolm wrote:
He is wrong. Just plain wrong.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 17th, 2021 at 8:48 AM
Title: Re: Are Zen teachers awakened?
Content:


unborn said:
Fortunately i have the opportunity to practice with an awakened rinzai zen teacher.

Malcolm wrote:
And how do you actually know your teacher is awakened? What is the sign or mark of that awakening?

Aemilius said:
Your own Buddha-nature sees or understands

Malcolm wrote:
So Buddhanature is a separate cognitive faculty apart from the mind?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 17th, 2021 at 6:36 AM
Title: Re: AKB, Ch. 1, V. 30-31: The eighteen dhatus and the three realms; purity of the dhatus
Content:




PeterC said:
He’s presenting a Vaibhasikan argument for refutation, which is perhaps why it sounds so ridiculous.  So a redundant organ persists even without having no purpose?

Malcolm wrote:
No, not the organ, the feature. The organ is just a patch of atoms. The nose is a feature. It exists because otherwise, devas won't be pretty.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 17th, 2021 at 2:03 AM
Title: Re: Are Zen teachers awakened?
Content:


unborn said:
Fortunately i have the opportunity to practice with an awakened rinzai zen teacher.

Malcolm wrote:
And how do you actually know your teacher is awakened? What is the sign or mark of that awakening?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 17th, 2021 at 1:32 AM
Title: Re: Is Buddhism a methodological solipsism?
Content:



PeterC said:
No, that’s not it.  It’s not that we don’t understand you because your ideas are profound. It’s that we simply can’t understand what you’re saying because your posts are very confusingly written, and seem not to address the questions being discussed.  Sorry.

tkp67 said:
What I am saying isn't profound.

I simply don't let my mind adhere to paradigms that serve 0 purpose.

That is why I say where is the benefit to your statements.

Remember friend one's mind determines the aspect of phenomenon one chooses to recognize (or not).


Queequeg said:
It would help if you at least stuck to English, with its generally accepted meanings and syntax, as a paradigm. That's just a suggestion, though.

Malcolm wrote:
Based on cause and condition and without resort to predetermined outcomes, the awakening of the buddha surpasses the localized variants of time in your outlook, which prevaricates in tandem with the integration of all ten realms in one moment. QED.

We just have to learn his language...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 17th, 2021 at 1:01 AM
Title: Re: Is Buddhism a methodological solipsism?
Content:



tkp67 said:
I know my friend, I know. I am not patronizing here. While I seem frivolous with belief that isn't a projection of my own mind. Do you realize I had to challenge the same distinctions. For me I could only do this through the lowest common denominator of empirical evidence.

PeterC said:
No, that’s not it.  It’s not that we don’t understand you because your ideas are profound. It’s that we simply can’t understand what you’re saying because your posts are very confusingly written, and seem not to address the questions being discussed.  Sorry.

tkp67 said:
What I am saying isn't profound.

I simply don't let my mind adhere to paradigms that serve 0 purpose.

That is why I say where is the benefit to your statements.

Remember friend one's mind determines the aspect of phenomenon one chooses to recognize (or not).


Malcolm wrote:
Apparently your mind is incapable of stringing together coherent sentences much of the time.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 16th, 2021 at 9:56 PM
Title: Re: Genghis Khan and India?
Content:



Queequeg said:
Mughals were not led by GK. This comment was about GK's decision only.

Malcolm wrote:
This is what PC was referring to:
Babur and Humayun (1526–1556)
Main articles: Babur and Humayun

Babur, the founder of the Mughal Empire, and his warriors visiting a Hindu temple in the Indian subcontinent.
The Mughal Empire was founded by Babur (reigned 1526–1530), a Central Asian ruler who was descended from the Turco-Mongol conqueror Timur (the founder of the Timurid Empire) on his father's side, and from Genghis Khan on his mother's side. [41] Ousted from his ancestral domains in Central Asia, Babur turned to India to satisfy his ambitions.[42] He established himself in Kabul and then pushed steadily southward into India from Afghanistan through the Khyber Pass.[41] Babur's forces occupied much of northern India after his victory at Panipat in 1526.[41] The preoccupation with wars and military campaigns, however, did not allow the new emperor to consolidate the gains he had made in India.[43]


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 15th, 2021 at 9:45 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
The ye shes referred to is your own rang byung ye shes. It doesn’t really come from somewhere outside you.
And that takes us back to my original light switch and light bulb analogy.

Malcolm wrote:
The process of invoking the jnanasattva in a sadhana is just a conceptual process. It’s good for beginners. This function is generally abandoned at the level of anuyoga, and especially in ati yoga. If you are not a practitioner of these two inner tantras, I understand why this idea may make you uncomfortable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 15th, 2021 at 9:41 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I hadn’t thought about it in those terms, but you’re right. It’s almost the same.

So now how is it a copout??

Malcolm wrote:
It’s sems, not ye shes.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Experientially the spiritual path is the progression from sems to yeshe. So of course you start with sems. So no copout there.

The question at hand is how best to proceed from one to the other. The most direct way available to me is for my sems to merge with the yeshe of a tantric deity. (That’s why the “Yeshe sempa” is not simply my own defiled imagination.) Presto!

How is that a copout? You think it’s cheating?

Malcolm wrote:
The ye shes referred to is your own rang byung ye shes. It doesn’t really come from somewhere outside you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 15th, 2021 at 9:17 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Pascal’s wager, for those who follow Buddhadharma, is a complete copout.
I hadn’t thought about it in those terms, but you’re right. It’s almost the same.

So now how is it a copout??

Malcolm wrote:
It’s sems, not ye shes.

One of the four reliances is rely on ye shes, not concepts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 15th, 2021 at 9:00 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
My basic point was about looking at the issue of betting one’s practice regarding jnanasattvas with a cost/benefit analysis:

What does one gain by being dismissive of their nature if they are imaginary? Or what if they are valid? And what do you lose in both cases?

What does one gain by taking their nature  seriously if they are imaginary? Or what if they are valid? And what do you lose in both cases?

By betting they aren’t valid it costs you nothing, but you might be passing up something immensely valuable.

By betting they are valid you are potentially exposing yourself to criticism for being foolish, so there is a cost. But if they are valid you can also have immense benefit.

Is possibly looking foolish worth it for what might be offered? For me, yes. But then again looking foolish is a fairly common occurrence for me. So I don’t care much.

I mean, compare that to the thread about Tibetan cataract surgery!

Malcolm wrote:
Pascal’s wager, for those who follow Buddhadharma, is a complete copout.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 15th, 2021 at 4:25 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Queequeg said:
When the Buddha explains his life span as nitya, he is displaying himself as Buddha without conditions as the Original Buddha. His trace appearances are then understood as functions for the sake of sentient beings.

Malcolm wrote:
Thanks for the explanation.

But I should point out, and not for the sake of generating controversy, that there are numerous sūtras in which the Buddha both defines the dharmakāya as uncompounded, and proclaims his identity as the dharmakāya, and where he declares that his appearance to sentient beings is based on past aspirations.

Queequeg said:
I don't think Zhiyi would have any problem with that. Nichiren Buddhists who insist everything comes from the Lotus might.

Malcolm wrote:
As always there is rhetoric and there is reality.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 15th, 2021 at 4:11 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Queequeg said:
When the Buddha explains his life span as nitya, he is displaying himself as Buddha without conditions as the Original Buddha. His trace appearances are then understood as functions for the sake of sentient beings.

Malcolm wrote:
Thanks for the explanation.

But I should point out, and not for the sake of generating controversy, that there are numerous sūtras in which the Buddha both defines the dharmakāya as uncompounded, and proclaims his identity as the dharmakāya, and where he declares that his appearance to sentient beings is based on past aspirations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 15th, 2021 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I think he’s wrong about it. And I think he’s missing out.

But he’s a big boy and I’m not his dad.

Virgo said:
Unfortunately, you don't have a clue what you are talking about.  You need to refer to Malcolm's analogy of electricity, the lightbulb, and filament, etc. and really try to grasp it before you make any more assertions in the thread.  When you don't know something just ask questions, don't make assertions please.  This makes it much easier on the people you are having the conversation with.  Same goes for Matt J.

With respect,

Virgo

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Um, if you go back in the thread you’ll see that the light switch/lightbulb analogy was originally my contribution.

Just sayin’....

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, which I corrected.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 15th, 2021 at 12:24 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



Queequeg said:
Original Cause. 本因妙

Malcolm wrote:
So you are calling something which is a not cause a cause? How is this nothing other than a euphemism?

Queequeg said:
I am not calling anything anything. I am explaining a term you asked about. Which is a provisional teaching in the Tiantai scheme, along the lines you suggested above.

Are you trying to make a controversy?

Malcolm wrote:
You mean the idea of “original cause” is provisional? If so you did not clearly state this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 14th, 2021 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



Queequeg said:
Yes. That is understood in the Tiantai classification, where this term comes from.

Malcolm wrote:
Which term?

Queequeg said:
Original Cause. 本因妙

Malcolm wrote:
So you are calling something which is a not cause a cause? How is this nothing other than a euphemism?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 14th, 2021 at 11:20 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Queequeg said:
Cause of Buddhahood -

The practices Shakyamuni carried out before he awakened in the remote past.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a provisional view.

That which is uncompounded does not arise from causes and conditions. The state of buddhahood is uncompounded. Therefore, buddhahood does not arise from causes and conditions.

Queequeg said:
Yes. That is understood in the Tiantai classification, where this term comes from.

Malcolm wrote:
Which term?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 14th, 2021 at 10:27 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Queequeg said:
Cause of Buddhahood -

The practices Shakyamuni carried out before he awakened in the remote past.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a provisional view.

That which is uncompounded does not arise from causes and conditions. The state of buddhahood is uncompounded. Therefore, buddhahood does not arise from causes and conditions.


tkp67 said:
Yes, conversely and without exclusion of that statement the obfuscation that prevent a person from realizing this state do arise from causes and conditions.

I would go as far to say the provisional and absolute (true aspect) exist in all things simultaneously and can be seen from a variety of perspectives because they are compounded. I invite people to examine the following from the lens of their own lives. I have yet to falsify it but perhaps this is a fault of mine.

Good Morning and Happy Valentine's Day

Malcolm wrote:
Since the state of Buddhahood is uncompounded, it is never affected by temporary obscurations or virtuous practices, just like the sun is never affected by white or dark clouds.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 14th, 2021 at 10:17 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I think you may not have a very firm grasp on why we practice the two stages.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
And I think your focusing on the second stage misinforms your understanding of the role of the first stage.

But that’s just my perspective based on my present karmic development.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, this is a thread in the dzogchen forum. So, dzogchen rules, not Sarma or lower tantra rules.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 14th, 2021 at 8:16 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Ya know, if you’re wrong about that, you’re really missing out.

Just sayin’...

amanitamusc said:
What the hey!You think he's making this up?I don't.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I think he’s wrong about it. And I think he’s missing out.

But he’s a big boy and I’m not his dad.

Malcolm wrote:
I think you may not have a very firm grasp on why we practice the two stages.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 14th, 2021 at 8:15 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
It’s a useful fiction for beginners.
Ya know, if you’re wrong about that, you’re really missing out.

Just sayin’...

Malcolm wrote:
But I am not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 14th, 2021 at 8:11 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Queequeg said:
Cause of Buddhahood -

The practices Shakyamuni carried out before he awakened in the remote past.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a provisional view.

That which is uncompounded does not arise from causes and conditions. The state of buddhahood is uncompounded. Therefore, buddhahood does not arise from causes and conditions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 14th, 2021 at 7:10 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



tkp67 said:
Yes it is a function driven by cause and effect. The cause was suffering the effect was liberation.

Malcolm wrote:
That is the provisional view.

Rinchen Samphel said:
Could you explain a little more what you mean by "Buddhahood has a cause?".

Malcolm wrote:
That which arises from causes and conditions is impermanent. Buddhahood arises from causes and conditions. Therefor buddhahood is impermanent. Thus is consequence of tkp67’s assertion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 14th, 2021 at 6:06 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


tkp67 said:
One thing about the assembly is the buddha himself foresaw the cause and effect of his own enlightenment

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhahood has a cause?

tkp67 said:
Yes it is a function driven by cause and effect. The cause was suffering the effect was liberation.

Malcolm wrote:
That is the provisional view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 14th, 2021 at 2:14 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Matt J said:
Not wrong, but as noted, there are degrees of fiction.

Malcolm wrote:
Ummmm, you mean like one can be only a little bit pregnant?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 13th, 2021 at 11:08 PM
Title: Re: SuperIority Conceit in Buddhist Traditions
Content:
tkp67 said:
Or isn't he simply pointing out that these can be interpreted from the true aspect or from the perspective of self?

Delineating matters based on relative causal relation doesn't need evoke a self in the process.

jake said:
You use this phrase "true aspect" quite often but it has never been clear to me what you mean by it. Would you please share your understanding of this term?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 13th, 2021 at 9:53 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


tkp67 said:
One thing about the assembly is the buddha himself foresaw the cause and effect of his own enlightenment

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhahood has a cause?

tkp67 said:
The conditioning that allows it to continue...



Malcolm wrote:
Buddhahood is conditioned?

That's some pretty strange buddhahood.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 13th, 2021 at 9:03 PM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:



boda said:
It appears as though they're just different stories, only Buddhism has no creation story that I'm aware of. I don't see how they're mutually exclusive stories. For instance, the same basic outline of how I was dependently originated would apply to God, wouldn't it? God being a sentient being.

Malcolm wrote:
If God were dependently originated, God would not fit the definition of a prime mover. QED.

boda said:
It doesn't really make sense to call God the prime mover because nothing comes before the prime mover, and if nothing comes before God, how could God be a creator? You can't simultaneously create and be created. Also, a creator requires sentients, and sentients is dependently originated.

Malcolm wrote:
Nevertheless, God is a prime mover. Not sure what you are arguing for here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 13th, 2021 at 7:32 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Könchok Chödrak said:
Buddhism looks directly into the nature of the world as well as the nature of Enlightenment. For those trying to fully understand everything about this world it may be difficult for them to openly come to terms with describing the idea of an All-Powerful God because they are defining the world from a perspective of converting all beings to the Path, all are welcome to Buddhism, theist, atheist, agnostic, etc. And there are so many difficult questions. Can a Buddhist beleive in God and still be a Buddhist? I say yes. I beleive if you say no to such a question you are missing the point of the all-inclusivensess of Buddhism. There are many beleif systems, for example many people (and not just the Hindus) beleive and beleived that Buddha is God Himself. His birth was predicted thousands of years before He was born in a Vedic Purana (The Bhagavatam Purana), describing Him as the Lord. Many people of Buddha's time such as the common peasants of the towns He walked through, when they encountered Him, beleived Him to be God. Such was the idea of advanced mendicants in India back in the day. What does your compassion and Dharmic Love tell you about who Buddha is, and what is behind His Emptiness? Ordinary people can acheive the most extrordinary things.

Malcolm wrote:
You mean you actually believe the story that Buddha is an avatar of Vishnu sent deceive the Daityas? If so, you are not a follower of Buddhadharma, but rather, Sanatanadharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 13th, 2021 at 7:30 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:



boda said:
Endless cycles of development and dissolution? If so, that’s not a creation story.

Malcolm wrote:
It is a cosmogenesis story: wash, rinse, repeat.

boda said:
It appears as though they're just different stories, only Buddhism has no creation story that I'm aware of. I don't see how they're mutually exclusive stories. For instance, the same basic outline of how I was dependently originated would apply to God, wouldn't it? God being a sentient being.

Malcolm wrote:
If God were dependently originated, God would not fit the definition of a prime mover. QED.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 13th, 2021 at 6:37 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
All the self-declared atheists I know also reject any notion of Buddhist deities, ghosts, pure lands, etc.  But perhaps this is that they are ‘materialists’.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, they are lokayatis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 13th, 2021 at 5:58 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
In keeping with my well established habits, I will take the most heretical of all possible positions; the samayasattva are indeed imaginary, but the jnanasattva are Shentong, meaning empty of anything other than their own Buddha Nature.

I knew that would come out sooner or later.

Malcolm wrote:
Jñānasattvas are equally imaginary, they are symbols of suchness; they are not however actually suchness. One summons the jñānasattva simply to recall the principle that dharmin and dharmatā are inseparable.

The suchness that jñānasattvas symbolize may indeed not be empty of qualities, whatever that means, but nevertheless, jñānasattva themselves are just imaginary constructs in the creation stage process that serve a heuristic function.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 13th, 2021 at 5:05 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
tkp67 said:
Atheism or theism is a belief system

Malcolm wrote:
One does not to subscribe to a belief system to be an atheist. All that is required is that one does not accept there is such as thing as God. God, in this case, is similar to rabbit horns or the child of a barren women. If one does not believe in rabbit horns or sons of barren women, this does not require a belief system since such things do not exist at all and have never existed, just like God.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 13th, 2021 at 4:47 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Matt J said:
From the POV I have been taught, all conceptual elaborations are fictitious...

Malcolm wrote:
Then why are you splitting hairs over imaginary and imagination? Surely the former is the product of the latter? That which is imaginary comes from one's imagination, it is in the very definitions you provided:

im·ag·i·nar·y
/iˈmajəˌnerē/
adjective
1.existing only in the imagination.

im·ag·i·na·tion
/iˌmajəˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun
1. the faculty or action of forming new ideas, or images or concepts of external objects not present to the senses.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 11:32 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Soma999 said:
Mantra (sound) creates yantra (form). Sound is vibrations. It transforms matter and put you in alignement with certain forces in the universe. It is physics.

I have seen experiments of how sound impacts form. It is impressive. Mandala can be formed this way.

Sound can carry information.

Form also can carry information. It can have tremendous effects when used correctly. It is all physics and resonance.

Saying a form is empty does not make it inexistent. Maybe the fire is empty, but it still burns.

Malcolm wrote:
This is all dualistic too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 11:31 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Matt J said:
Well, I would not claim that all fictions are equal, or equally conducive to liberation.

Malcolm wrote:
There is only one thing conducive to liberation: seeing through the obscuration of self-grasping through realizing emptiness, which burns up afflictions.

Creation stage is something predicated on an Abhidharma model of a putative person, unlike Ronald McDonald. A deity is not an integral person anymore than we are. This is demonstrated by the Guru's three seats, for example, from whom we take empowerment, the five buddhas, their consorts, the male and female bodhisattvas, and the ten wrathful ones. We do not actually receive empowerment from a guru as an integral person, because an integral person is just a fiction. To break down that fiction, we substitute another fiction: the mandala. To break down the fiction of the mandala, we use the completion stage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 11:26 PM
Title: Re: In what sense is the brain and consciousness not just biochemicals
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
The teachings say that when looked for,
The mind cannot be found to reside
either inside or outside of the body.

Yet, at the time of death,
consciousness is also said to leave the body,
(and preferably through the top of the head).
That would suggest that the mind is located in the body.

These two appear to contradict each other.
Can you resolve it?

Malcolm wrote:
The first is a ultimate analysis, the second is a conventional description. For example, a car cannot be found to reside in its parts or outside its parts, etc.

PadmaVonSamba said:
So then, the mind is merely, let’s say, “ending its association” with the body. But then, why would some texts suggest it matters through which orifice the consciousness “leaves” the body?

Malcolm wrote:
Its a karmic sign of where one will take rebirth. Again, just a conventional description.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:



boda said:
Why would dependent origination necessarily exclude theism? There's no universe creation story in Buddhism, last time I checked.

Malcolm wrote:
It excludes prime movers. And there indeed is a Buddhist cosmogony.

boda said:
Endless cycles of development and dissolution? If so, that’s not a creation story.

Malcolm wrote:
It is a cosmogenesis story: wash, rinse, repeat.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 9:24 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
The corollary to that perspective is the idea that the deity is like a light switch and you are then the light bulb. You need faith and devotion in order to flip the switch.

But there’s more than one correct approach.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the bulb is your ordinary body, voice and mind, the basis of purification; the jnanasattva is the element in the bulb, the three vajras, the purifier; empowerment is the switch.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 9:20 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The difference of course is that the Buddhist story, from beginning to end, is grounded in understanding samsaric dependent orIgination and reversing samsaric dependent origination. So, your statement below depends on a false equivalence.

Matt J said:
I suppose one can say the same about any story, philosophy, worldview, religion, etc.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I’ve had a long lingering suspicion that Malcolm’s not into the whole jnãnasattva thing. I could be wrong about that.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a useful fiction for beginners.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 9:16 PM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
A jnanasattva is also a purely imagined representation. It’s a method, but there is no inherently existing jnanasattva to invoke and absorb. It’s just a creation stage symbol, so wholly imagined and conceptualized.

Secondary practices work because the process of reciting mantras function through accumulating merit and dependent origination, but they are still just conceptual because they are part of our dualistic experience.


Matt J said:
Certainly there is more to a deity than pure imagination, right? Otherwise there would be no difference between a jnanasattva and a samayasattva? And how would secondary practices work?

Malcolm wrote:
If Ronald Mcdonald is taught by a Buddha in a tantra as a means of purifying the aggregate of sensation, then sure. If not, then I am afraid you are shit out of luck.

The reason we have a completion stage is to eliminate the conceptuality of the creation stage. The creation stage is meant to substitute impure conceptuality with pure conceptuality. The completion stage is meant to eradicate even pure conceptuality. Imagining oneself as a deity is just an exercise in conceptuality that also must be overcome.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 9:09 PM
Title: Re: In what sense is the brain and consciousness not just biochemicals
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
The teachings say that when looked for,
The mind cannot be found to reside
either inside or outside of the body.

Yet, at the time of death,
consciousness is also said to leave the body,
(and preferably through the top of the head).
That would suggest that the mind is located in the body.

These two appear to contradict each other.
Can you resolve it?

Malcolm wrote:
The first is a ultimate analysis, the second is a conventional description. For example, a car cannot be found to reside in its parts or outside its parts, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 10:07 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I’ve had a long lingering suspicion that Malcolm’s not into the whole jnãnasattva thing. I could be wrong about that.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a useful fiction for beginners.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 10:05 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Dependent origination excludes theism as a valid explanation of the world and the beings who inhabit it. Since dependent origination is the Dharma, and since the Dharma excludes theism as a valid explanation of the world and the beings who inhabit it, Dharma is atheist. QED.

boda said:
Why would dependent origination necessarily exclude theism? There's no universe creation story in Buddhism, last time I checked.

Malcolm wrote:
It excludes prime movers. And there indeed is a Buddhist cosmogony.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 6:21 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Tenma said:
Let's say that it was a "well-established fact" within a culture that the lunar cycle has control over our behavior, that spirits existed, that there were four elements, that chakras literally existed, and so forth. However, let's also consider that a person did not believe in any of the gods nor bothered to worship them. Though the person believes the generally-accepted "fact" that the lunar cycle controls behaviors and bodies, that spirits exist, etc., would they still be considered atheists for not believing in the gods and whatever other religions there were?

Malcolm wrote:
As long as you are clear that universe was not created by a supreme being, you are, in my opinion, an atheist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 6:12 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Matt J said:
So can I just replace Ratnasambhava with say, Ronald McDonald?

Malcolm wrote:
If Ronald Mcdonald is taught by a Buddha in a tantra as a means of purifying the aggregate of sensation, then sure. If not, then I am afraid you are shit out of luck.

The reason we have a completion stage is to eliminate the conceptuality of the creation stage. The creation stage is meant to substitute impure conceptuality with pure conceptuality. The completion stage is meant to eradicate even pure conceptuality. Imagining oneself as a deity is just an exercise in conceptuality that also must be overcome.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 6:04 AM
Title: Re: In what sense is the brain and consciousness not just biochemicals
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
dharmadhātu resulting dream perceptions.

Queequeg said:
can you explain that?

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, the dharmadhātu is the object of the manodhātu, when these two things meet, it produces the manovijñānadhātu.

So, mental factors are part of the dharmadhātu, dream experiences are basically, distorted memories. Memories are mental factors.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 4:34 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Cataract Surgery?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I just had cataract surgery. There is an incision, the entire lens is removed, and a new plastic lens inserted. In other words, “the cataract” is the old lens. Even if everything else was modern level sterile and painless, removing the lens without replacing it would effectively blind you in that eye.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s the modern way, but actually what happens is that film forms on the lens, which can be removed separately from the lens. These kinds of surgeries were performed in old Tibet without blinding anyone.

AmidaB said:
First of all: May all the Buddhas of the Tree Times bless Yangchen Lhamo in her all past and future lives.
Malcolm La, with all due respect that statement was far from the true or complete explanation - that would be about the 'film forms' part.
With the classical procedure you can  regain your 'sight' but you won't be able to focus with the affected eye.
There are several type of cataract and the correct information on the pathology/pathophysiology and the description of the classical Indian (Sushruta samitha) and modern 'western' treatment-variations is widely available on the web or in better case in medical textbooks. Please invest some time into learning 'modern' biomedicine from the scratch, including anatomy, physilogy, pathophysiology, internal medicine, pharmacology, surgery etc. it will greatly helps in the in depth understanding of the classical systems and also a great fun. I also would like to apologize for my harsh words and openly confess my shallow understanding in the field of proper English usage and communication.

Malcolm wrote:
I gather you know Tibetan and can read what it says in the Medical Tantra and so on? In any case, what I have written here is an accurate representation of a description of said procedure.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 3:45 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Matt J said:
Other Power

Queequeg said:
If I'm not mistaken, the Other Power is limited to Amitabha overriding ordinary karma which would determine rebirth and bringing all who call on him to Sukhavati where one would fare according to karma within that realm. The advantage of that realm is that it is a pure land.

Rinchen Samphel said:
Wait, what is "Other Power"? I just took it to mean some other power which is greater than myself that can help me and my development, does it have a more distinct meaning here in Buddhism?

Malcolm wrote:
It means relying on one of Amitabha's vows which guarantee rebirth in Sukhavativyuha:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Amitabha%27s_forty-eight_vows

These are three most saliant:
Vow 18
Provided I become a Buddha, if the beings of the ten quarters who after having heard my name, and thus awakened their highest faith and aspiration of re-birth in that country of mine, even they have recollected such a thought for ten times only, they are destinated to be born there, with the exception of those who have committed the five deadly sins (Anantarya), and who have blasphemed the orthodox Law (Dharma), otherwise may I not attain the enlightenment.

Vow 19
Provided I become a Buddha, if the beings of ten quarters who have directed their thoughts towards the Bodhi and cultivated their stock of various merits with a fervent craving for re-birth in that country of mine, if at the moment of death, should I not appear with an assembly of retinue before them, then may I not attain the enlightenment.

Vow 20
Provided I become a Buddha, if the beings of ten quarters, after having heard my name always longing for that country of mine and cultivating various essential merits for the purpose of realizing their earnest wish to be born in my country, should their fulfillment be failed, then may I not attain the enlightenment.
Nevertheless, it is very clear here that one must have the aspiration oneself to be born in Sukhavati. Also, Buddhahood there takes eons.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 3:44 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Matt J said:
Other Power

Queequeg said:
If I'm not mistaken, the Other Power is limited to Amitabha overriding ordinary karma which would determine rebirth and bringing all who call on him to Sukhavati where one would fare according to karma within that realm. The advantage of that realm is that it is a pure land.

Malcolm wrote:
While there are somewhat extreme views of so-called other power in Japanese Buddhism, there are restrictions placed upon who can take birth in Sukhavati, what grade they will be born as, etc.

And this idea of "call" is Shinran's rereading. The text actually says "hear."

Further, there are many sūtras, where based on the pranidhanas or aspirations of a given bodhisattva, their resultant buddhafield will admit the aspirant. For example, the Medicine Buddha pureland can be accessed by minimally reciting the Bhaisajyaguru dhāraṇi seven times a day, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 3:38 AM
Title: Re: In what sense is the brain and consciousness not just biochemicals
Content:
Matt J said:
Is there eye consciousness in a dream? Contact?

Queequeg said:
Here's a stab at an analysis of that - Technically, if there is no contact between the visual object and eyes, there is no eye consciousness. Ananda knows he can't see because he notes, in mind consciousness, the absence of eye consciousness impinging on mind consciousness. That is itself a function of mind consciousness - mind consciousness takes as its object both consciousness of the 5 sense organs as well as the previous instances of mind consciousness.

Malcolm wrote:
No, but there is contact by the manodhātu of an object in the dharmadhātu resulting dream perceptions. So, there is no eye consciousness in a dream, there is however, contact.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 3:28 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Matt J said:
Well, let's pull out some definitions:

im·ag·i·nar·y
/iˈmajəˌnerē/
adjective
1.existing only in the imagination.

im·ag·i·na·tion
/iˌmajəˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun
1. the faculty or action of forming new ideas, or images or concepts of external objects not present to the senses.

Does the use of the second necessarily imply the first?
Does visualized mean imaginary?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is why in many sadhanas is says, "Imagine oneself as _insert name of yidam here_.
Both, actually. This is why we summon the jñānasattva, because until that point, the samayasattva is just a conceptual fiction. This is the basis of the whole Dzogchen critique of creation stage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 2:55 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Matt J said:
Does visualized mean imaginary?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is why in many sadhanas is says, "Imagine oneself as _insert name of yidam here_.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 2:53 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Sādhaka said:
My two cents here is that “Brahmin” is meant in the context as used in the Dhammapada, i.e. the term “Brahmin” used to mean one who actually sees the Dharma, not meaning your average run-of-the-mill follower of Brahminism.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, there are nominal brahmins and then there are true brahmins, i.e., āryas. It is unclear here what tpk is referring to.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 2:26 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
tkp67 said:
In the assembly of the Lotus Sutra the buddha remarks the brahman have freed themselves of outflows so he recognized their means in provisional context.

Malcolm wrote:
You are claiming the Buddha recognized that all brahmins are free from outflows? Citation please.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Matt J said:
Well, there are strands and practices that are based on Other Power.

Rinchen Samphel said:
Either way, at the end of the day, the Great Sage said that he can show us the methods that lead to liberation, but liberation depends upon oneself. So even if reality is by nature theist, not theist, both or neither, the responsibility of our awakening lies upon ourselves. What then is the necessity of theism? And if there isnt any necessity for theism, then how could one be theist in any meaningful way?

Malcolm wrote:
Even here, one has to wish for liberation, possess bodhicitta, and so on.  It is not like Krishna picks one up like a kitten and carries one to Vaikuntha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 1:00 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:


tkp67 said:
Yet your interpretation of these things is developed over time, through capacity, according to cause and condition and reflects grand specificity.


Malcolm wrote:
Dependent origination excludes theism as a valid explanation of the world and the beings who inhabit it. Since dependent origination is the Dharma, and since the Dharma excludes theism as a valid explanation of the world and the beings who inhabit it, Dharma is atheist. QED.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 12:57 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Matt J said:
In my world, there is room for atheists such as you, Malcolm, and Stephen Batchelor, but also room for Wallace

Malcolm wrote:
Wallace is quite simply wrong, and his view on this is not supported in any way in ati yoga texts.


Matt J said:
Thurman, Indonesian Buddhists, lay people with a less sophisticated understanding, etc. Mahayana after all is supposed to be the "big boat."

Malcolm wrote:
The existence of people who have a religious commitment to Buddhism, who yet fail to understand its essential principles goes all the way back to the Pudgalavādins, who asserted the existence of an inexpressible person, who is neither the same nor different than the aggregates. BINOs, in other words, Buddhists in Name Only.

Matt J said:
And if there are similarities to these truths amongst the mystics of many traditions, then it is even more likely to be universal.

Malcolm wrote:
There are no similarities between what the mystics of other traditions believe and what the Buddha taught and what has been practiced and realized in Buddhadharma since time immemorial. It is for this reason, for example, that the Rig pa Rang Shar divides vehicles into vehicles of samsara and vehicles of nirvana. Outside the nine yānas, everything else is a samsaric vehicle.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 12:51 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:


tkp67 said:
Mainstream atheism

Malcolm wrote:
Again, since you are hard of hearing: being an atheist is one thing; being a followe of atheism is another.

For example, I don't believe in emptiness, but things are empty.

I don't _believe_ there is no God since the doctrine of dependent origination excludes the possibility of such a being. I don't believe in dependent origination, it is obvious that all compounded entities arise dependently. As such, that makes me an atheist, but it does not make me a believer in Atheism, mainstream or otherwise.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 12th, 2021 at 12:46 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:


tkp67 said:
Just like I am questing the attachment to the notion of atheism or theism as categorically buddhist or not.

Malcolm wrote:
I am not attached to the idea that Buddhadharma is atheist. It just is.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:43 PM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Queequeg said:
tkp, I request that you state your view in 5 SIMPLE sentences or less. Simple - not compound, not run on. Its really hard to understand what problem you could possibly have with the definitions of theism and atheism, and their application to Buddhism as explained by Norwegian and Malcolm above.

Malcolm wrote:
tkp has a savior complex, he is afraid we will alienate people from converting to Buddhadharma if we don't use nice and soothing words. Of course, I don't believe anyone "converts" to Buddhadharma. They either have the merit and karma to meet to the Dharma in this or some other life or not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:


tkp67 said:
Because there are no sentient beings left that benefit from that teaching?

Even if it is a conceptual means to eliminate mental constraints it doesn't negate meaning or value. There are other criteria for that evaluation. Not just one's own causes, capacities and conditions.

Malcolm wrote:
The only sentient beings who can attain liberation are human beings. This is why a human birth is called "precious." Hell beings, pretas, animals, asuras, and devas cannot attain buddhahood.

For this reason, whether hell beings, pretas, asuras, and devas exist or not is irrelevant to the path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
tkp67 said:
This argument again. Look I never said buddhism should accept christian doctrine. What I am saying is the buddha would not be conditioned against it so why misrepresent it that way.?

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha was quite opposed to many nonbuddhist doctrines, for example, the idea that one's status as a brahmin was determined by birth.

Just read something other than the Lotus Sūtra for a change and you will discover this quickly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan prātimokṣa chanting?
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
On another forum less specialized than this, someone recently asked if Tibetan monks chant the prātimokṣa, and it occurred to me I have no idea what Tibetan monastic observance looks like. Are there morning and evening services like in Chinese-influenced Buddhism? Is the prātimokṣa chanted at one point? Where would I be able to find translated liturgy books, with the obvious caveat in mind that I'm not looking for juicy secret teachings and forbidden things from "beyond the veil?" I imagine some sort of monastic chant would be to-do with the vinaya. Do they chant excerpts from the Vinayasutra instead?

Malcolm wrote:
Monastics, in Tibetan Buddhism, only recite prātimokṣa on Posada days.

However, there are many daily prayers they might do, depending on the monastery. Typically a Sakya monastery day begins with puja to Tārā, which will included a daily recital that reaffirms both prātimokṣa and bodhisattva vows. The Triskandha Sūtra is a common recitation, for example. And since most monastics are Vajrayāna practitioners, their sādhana recitations will take care of maintaining their vows. But it really depends on school to school and monastery to monastery.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
We believe in devas with about the same fervor as we believe in leprechauns, kobolds, elves, and fairies.

tkp67 said:
Glads to see you have revealed yourself as a great authority over all things Buddhist today than the world honored one himself.

Malcolm wrote:
Really, a "who made you king of the X" reply? Grow up dude. Whether devas exist or not is absolutely irrelevant to the Buddhadharma path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:18 PM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:


tkp67 said:
I think the real point is that the mainstream understanding is materialsitic. DW represents a very narrow demographic of which display exemplary capacities, causes and conditions. <username's> atheistic perspective as a <tradition> buddhist is fine. Saying the buddha was an atheist is not because it makes it an obstacle for theists.

Malcolm wrote:
The conversion trip again—look, if you do not have the karma to meet Buddhist teachings and enter them in this life, you will not meet Buddhist teachings and enter them in this life. If you do, you will. QED.

If you tell Christians that Buddhists do not accept the Nicean creed, this causes them obstacles too. What is the Nicean Creed? Here is the Ecumenical version:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
This is not acceptable in Buddhadharma. We don't believe any of this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Queequeg said:
I'm not going to go back and read all this... would someone please restate what is meant by the following terms in the context of this discussion:

theism

Malcolm wrote:
the·​ist | \ ˈthē-ist  \
plural theist
Definition of theist
: a believer in theism : a person who believes in the existence of a god or gods
specifically : one who believes in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race
Not surprisingly, both scientific skeptics and theists whose ideas of God center primarily on the notion of "intelligent design" have found Darwinian ideas religiously incoherent.
— John F. Haught


[/quote]
atheism

[/quote]


athe·​ist | \ ˈā-thē-ist  \
Definition of atheist
: a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods : one who subscribes to or advocates atheism

While some argue against defining Buddhadharma as atheist, Muslims, Christians, theists in general understand Buddhadharma as an atheist tradition. For Buddhadharma, devas are just sentient beings who, when they exhaust their merit, fall into lower realms, nothing special at all. We believe in devas with about the same fervor as we believe in leprechauns, kobolds, elves, and fairies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 7:57 PM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
tkp67 said:
Here is were the atheist theorem really falls apart. Causation.

Malcolm wrote:
You are confusing Atheism with atheist. But arguably, followers of Atheism are more likely to accept dependent origination than theists.

tkp67 said:
What about the dependence of buddhism on Brahmanism as the basis, cause and means for Shakyamuni?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhadharma does not depend on Brahmanism in anyway.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:44 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
tkp67 said:
Here is were the atheist theorem really falls apart. Causation.

Malcolm wrote:
You are confusing Atheism with atheist. But arguably, followers of Atheism are more likely to accept dependent origination than theists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:38 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:



tkp67 said:
to quote Bob Thurman "so don't tell me buddhists are atheistic"

Note he remarks throughout he has made recent observations in regards to practices. Nice to see his isn't blinded by provisional.

Malcolm wrote:
Thurman is not really very reliable, definitely not an authority.

tkp67 said:
Glad to see you did your due diligence and digested his proposition on such things. When you can demonstrate you understand his position and can correct it without denouncing his character you will demonstrate your claim.

Malcolm wrote:
Thurman likes to play to those who have theistic  tendencies, this is well known amongst Tibetan Buddhists. Some people think it is skillful means, but I don’t. On the other hand, I don’t have to appeal to uptown NYC city new agers in order to keep the family business going.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:20 AM
Title: Re: In what sense is the brain and consciousness not just biochemicals
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I mentioned that earlier. It hasn’t stopped people from trying to justify that point of view though.

Malcolm wrote:
They’ve abandoned science, in that case.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:19 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:



tkp67 said:
to quote Bob Thurman "so don't tell me buddhists are atheistic"

Note he remarks throughout he has made recent observations in regards to practices. Nice to see his isn't blinded by provisional.

Malcolm wrote:
Thurman is not really very reliable, definitely not an authority.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 11:17 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
I never said you have to be an atheist. I said I was one, still am, and will always be one, and that I understand the Buddha was also an atheist.

As an atheist, I do not believe that any version of theism—whether poly, pan, or mono—leads to liberation. I go for refuge to the Three Jewels. Whether there are mundane gods or not (not to mention the existence of a supreme being) is quite irrelevant.

Buddhism in atheist because we eschew refuge in all versions of theism, no matter what adjective one places before it.
To follow up on this, Buddhists are nang pas because we do not believe in external saviors or refuges. That’s why we are atheists.

PadmaVonSamba said:
So, technically, by that definition, one could stolidly believe in the existence of a god or gods, even a ‘creator of the universe’ god (dependent origination aside)  but at the same time regard them as useless as far as liberation from samsara is concerned.

I’m not sure that’s how most atheists would carve it out, but okay.

I’ve always wondered, since the biblical (abrahamic) god describes himself as having anger and jealousy issues, whether Buddhists would classify ‘him’ as an asura.

Malcolm wrote:
Well no, since that violates the principle dependent origination.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 10:09 AM
Title: Re: In what sense is the brain and consciousness not just biochemicals
Content:
Matt J said:
Your explanations were clear, and I think you're right: you either get it or you don't, but once you do, it's obvious.

I think some may fear they might turn into Yogacarins, or even worse, Shetongpas.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Thanks, you explained this much better than I could. The bolded bit is the tacit belief of some materialists, and is exactly why the idea that subjective experience is completely reducible to physical components (again, referencing the OP) is questionable, to my mind at least.

Malcolm wrote:
The question of reducing consciousness to mere physical epiphenomena is not falsifiable. Thus, the entire line of discussion about the OPs qualms are reduced to nought with one sentance.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 9:55 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Matt J said:
This definition of atheist bears a cultural bias...

Malcolm wrote:
I never said you have to be an atheist. I said I was one, still am, and will always be one, and that I understand the Buddha was also an atheist.

As an atheist, I do not believe that any version of theism—whether poly, pan, or mono—leads to liberation. I go for refuge to the Three Jewels. Whether there are mundane gods or not (not to mention the existence of a supreme being) is quite irrelevant.

Buddhism in atheist because we eschew refuge in all versions of theism, no matter what adjective one places before it.
To follow up on this, Buddhists are nang pas because we do not believe in external saviors or refuges. That’s why we are atheists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 9:51 AM
Title: Re: Atheism vs Buddhism (was Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?)
Content:
Matt J said:
Many modern atheists have abandoned these definitions as they are very untenable philosophically. So instead of denying, they know "lack a belief." The second, however, is largely panned as centering on more modern, Westernized notions.

SilenceMonkey said:
Why can't everyone just acknowledge that there are two definitions to the word atheism?

1) Disbelief in the existence of God or Gods.
2) Disbelief in the notion of a creator God.

It's just a matter of preference for one or the other definition for the word.

Malcolm wrote:
Frankly, I have more in common with secular humanists than Christians, etc. YMMV. I am not worried about the former trying to slaughter me for my idiosyncratic beliefs; history shows the latter are dangerous to people like us.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 9:49 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Matt J said:
This definition of atheist bears a cultural bias...

Malcolm wrote:
I never said you have to be an atheist. I said I was one, still am, and will always be one, and that I understand the Buddha was also an atheist.

As an atheist, I do not believe that any version of theism—whether poly, pan, or mono—leads to liberation. I go for refuge to the Three Jewels. Whether there are mundane gods or not (not to mention the existence of a supreme being) is quite irrelevant.

Buddhism in atheist because we eschew refuge in all versions of theism, no matter what adjective one places before it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 8:16 AM
Title: Re: why is theravada section hosted on a separate website
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I believe the Theravada site actually came first.

PeterC said:
I thought some fragments of postings were found in an Iomega drive written in Gandharan that proved that the earliest extant Dharmawheel postings actually predated the Dhammawheel postings?

Malcolm wrote:
Gandhara, in this case, was E-sangha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 8:00 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Matt J said:
That's quite a stretch, especially since your quote says Epicurus denied the charge.

Malcolm wrote:
On the other hand, everyone understood Lucretius to be an atheist. The polite term for godless atheist in the 18th century was “deist,”


Matt J said:
No one said the Buddha was considered an atheist by the Brahmins in ancient India, rather the charge that Buddhism itself is atheistic and profoundly so.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddha was clearly an atheist since he rejected the idea that there was a supreme being.

Matt J said:
And consider this a non-affirming negation: by denying atheism, this does not mean Buddhism is some sort of W.Y. Evans-Wentz theosophy. I just don't think the clean conceptual categories really work here.

Malcolm wrote:
Either Buddha affirmed creation by a supreme being or he didn’t. If he didn’t, that satisfies the definition of being an atheist.

Matt J said:
Let's consider some comments, and ask if they would be acceptable to an atheist:
But we must be careful here! Because to say mind is open like space is not to reduce it to something nonexistent in the sense of being nonfunctional. Like space, pure mind cannot be located, but it is omnipresent and all-penetrating; it embraces and pervades all things. Moreover, it is beyond change, and its open nature is indestructible and atemporal.

Kalu Rinpoche, Luminous Mind, p. 49-50.

Malcolm wrote:
Not an affirmation of creation of the world by a supreme being, so irrelevant, and further, the translation is suspect. “All things” is “chos thams cad,” which does not refer to everything in the universe, but is a technical term which includes all phenomena of an individual in one aggregate, one sense base, and one sense element. So of course mind pervades all of these things.

Matt J said:
At the outset, let me state that Buddhism is not atheistic as the term is ordinarily understood. It has certainly a God, the highest reality and truth, through which and in which this universe exists. However, the followers of Buddhism usually avoid the term God, for it savors so much of Christianity, whose spirit is not always exactly in accord with the Buddhist interpretation of religious experience. Again, Buddhism is not pantheistic in the sense that it identifies the universe with God. On the other hand, the Buddhist God is absolute and transcendent; this world, being merely its manifestation, is necessarily fragmental and imperfect. To define more exactly the Buddhist notion of the highest being, it may be convenient to borrow the term very happily coined by a modern German scholar, "panentheism," according to which God is πᾶν καὶ ἕν (all and one) and more than the totality of existence.
Soen Shaku

Malcolm wrote:
The is just some Platonic eternalism wrapped up in Buddhist drag.
Matt J said:
https://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/zfa/zfa04.htm

Let's not even talk about those Indonesians, who were forced to modify Buddhism to conform to Indonesian politics. Shall we eject them from the tent?:
Sanghyang Adi Buddha is the origin of everything in the universe, but he himself is without beginning or end, self-originating, infinite, omnipotent, unconditioned, absolute, omnipresent, almighty, incomparable, and immortal. However, those words are unable to describe the true self of Sanghyang Adi Buddha. The existence of Adi Buddha demonstrates that this life is not the product of chaos, but the product of spiritual hierarchy. By the presence of Adi Buddha, this life becomes useful and be possible to attain enlightenment and Buddhahood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanghyang_Adi_Buddha

Malcolm wrote:
BINO.

Matt J said:
And here is a literal (Tibetan, not Pureland) prayer to a Amitabha to go to Sukhavati:
O Victorious One and Protector Amitābha,

To you I pray: inspire me with your blessing.

As soon as it is time to leave this life behind,

Guide me, I pray, to the realm of Sukhāvatī!
https://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/dodrupchen-III/amitabha-prayer

Malcolm wrote:
Not an affirmation of a supreme being who creates the universes, and, just an expression of dependent origination.

Matt J said:
Certainly, the atheist convention would ride us out of town if they learned of this from ChNNR, which is not far from what I said before about the divine qualities being located in us instead of in an external God:
Most Westerners receive a Christian education and in the Christian tradition God is very diffused. God is recognized as something outside. They don’t know that God is in our real nature. If you have that knowledge and you are reading the bible, you can see there are many words that indicate God means our real nature. But then it developed in a more dualistic way. When they started to say, “the unique God governing all universe”, then it became easy to think God is governing everything. But it does not correspond in the real condition. So it is very important when you follow the Dzogchen Teachings, that you really understand what God means. It is not necessary to wonder if God exists or not. Some people are worried there is no God in Buddhism. In Buddhism there are so many kinds of gods, but Buddhists do not speak of the unique God. The essence of Buddhist teaching is Dzogchen, which is the final teaching of the Buddha Shakyamuni. Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody.
http://ylonhost-eu.com/melong.com/wp-co%20...%20ror108.pdf


Malcolm wrote:
This is just something nice CHNN said for people who are attached to God, that’s it.  ChNN also said we could call the basis “George,” not once, but many times.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 6:50 AM
Title: Re: In what sense is the brain and consciousness not just biochemicals
Content:
Matt J said:
People are making the same mistake as the materialists, in my mind. Just because you amass a certain number of subjective impressions does not mean that at some point, as if by magic, objectivity leaps to the stage. Nor does adopting a set of inferences that have predictive value indicate the ontological truth of those inferences--- just because something is useful does not make it true. And indeed, inferences are always subject to falsification in any instance. 100 instances of smoke leading to fire doesn't mean it will do so on the 101st (for example, dry ice "smokes," as does smouldering peat or an ember.)

Nor does this skepticism amount to a denial of some kind of physical or external reality.By definition, everything we know is subjective. Shades of color aren't hanging out there, they are generated by sentient beings. With no observers, there is simply no qualia: no color, no sound, no texture. These are not only specific to the environment, they also vary from observer to observer (i.e. a color blind person may see no red). Those are all subjective qualities. If you don't accept that, explain how the motion of light relates to different colors, or how the vibration of molecules relates to the sounds we hear. It doesn't even make sense-- the redness of red is due to how light moves?

It is a tautology. However, because we have been conditioned into naive realism (i.e. things exist as we see them), we think this is not the case. If you wish to posit a colorless, soundless, textureless, non-experienced (because all of these are subjective) external reality, then by all means do so, although I don't know what you are positing.

Malcolm wrote:
Experiences cannot be subjective, it they were, objects would be not necessary. QED.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 2:29 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Matt J said:
The Buddha in the Pali Suttas did not deny the gods,

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha denied the universe was created by a supreme agency. Epicurus is regarded as an atheist, but he as well accepted the existence of various supernatural entities:

https://iep.utm.edu/epicur/#SH3e

Matt J said:
Because of its denial of divine providence, Epicureanism was often charged in antiquity with being a godless philosophy, although Epicurus and his followers denied the charge. The main upshot of Epicurean theology is certainly negative, however. Epicurus’ mechanistic explanations of natural phenomena are supposed to displace explanations that appeal to the will of the gods. In addition, Epicurus is one of the earliest philosophers we know of to have raised the Problem of Evil, arguing against the notion that the world is under the providential care of a loving deity by pointing out the manifold suffering in the world.

Despite this, Epicurus says that there are gods, but these gods are quite different from the popular conception of gods. We have a conception of the gods, says Epicurus, as supremely blessed and happy beings. Troubling oneself about the miseries of the world, or trying to administer the world, would be inconsistent with a life of tranquility, says Epicurus, so the gods have no concern for us. In fact, they are unaware of our existence, and live eternally in the intermundia, the space between the cosmoi. For Epicurus, the gods function mainly as ethical ideals, whose lives we can strive to emulate, but whose wrath we need not fear.

Ancient critics thought the Epicurean gods were a thin smoke-screen to hide Epicurus’ atheism, and difficulties with a literal interpretation of Epicurus’ sayings on the nature of the gods (for instance, it appears inconsistent with Epicurus’ atomic theory to hold that any compound body, even a god, could be immortal) have led some scholars to conjecture that Epicurus’ ‘gods’ are thought-constructs, and exist only in human minds as idealizations, i.e., the gods exist, but only as projections of what the most blessed life would be.

Malcolm wrote:
The idea of gods presented above is quite similar to the Buddhist notion of devas. But Epicurus, who lived a mere 70 years or so after the Buddha’s parinirvana, was certainly called atheoi, just as the Buddha was called a nastika, the equivalent term for an atheist in ancient India, along with Carvakas, Samkhya, Jains, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 1:57 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:


tkp67 said:
What I am saying most clearly is to label the buddha as either this or that is a misrepresentation of the dharma because he taught neither.

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha was also an atheist. Many Indians of his day were atheists and negated the idea that the world was created by a supreme being.


