﻿Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 25th, 2020 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Then, people should just give it a rest when Tibetan Buddhists assign Chan to sūtra.

Astus said:
I think it's less about whether it is sutra based or not, and more about how tantra is posited as superior.

Malcolm wrote:
It's baked in. Chan, like all other sūtra traditions, lacks direct introduction. This is why Nubchen assigns Chan to a position inferior to Mahāyoga, while at the same time, elevating it above the gradualist approach of Kamalashila, and extensively cites Bodhidharma and more than 40 Tang Chan masters, to show how it is that Chan is superior to the gradualist approach of Kamalashila.

We also know that concurrently in India, there was a sutric sudden awakening approach that owed nothing to Chan, memorialized in a text by Vimalamitra called The Meaning of Nonconceptual Meditation, the Sudden Approach ( cig car 'jug pa rnam par mi rtog pa'i bsgom don ). Unsurprisingly, the first text is cited in defense of this is the Lanka Sūtra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 25th, 2020 at 2:04 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Still a sutric tradition.

Astus said:
Indeed. The Buddha's mind and the Buddha's words cannot be in disharmony.

Malcolm wrote:
Still just prajñāpāramitā.

Astus said:
Sure it is. There is no claim to the contrary.

Malcolm wrote:
Then, people should just give it a rest when Tibetan Buddhists assign Chan to sūtra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 25th, 2020 at 2:03 AM
Title: Re: Kosa Reading Group ii c: Introduction by Poussin
Content:
Grigoris said:
The Patthanuddesa Dipani was also really informative in it's break down and analysis of how causes and conditions work.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but it won't help you at all when you come to the six causes and four conditions discussed later in the Indriya chapter, chapter 2.

This is important, because the six causes and four conditions are treated in Mahāyāna sūtra and tantras, as well as in such diverse literatures as Tibetan Medicine and even explanations of delusion of sentient beings in Dzogchen teachings.

So, as I said, I never found Pali Abhidhamma tradition of any use in understanding Mahāyāna texts, despite its obvious value as a important intellectual tradition in Buddhism as a whole.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 25th, 2020 at 1:47 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So, your method is simply to rest in the direct perception of the six senses? How is this different than the direct perception of a harrier or a rabbit?

Astus said:
'yet it is not attached to all the locations', 'without defilement or heterogeneity', 'penetrating function without stagnation' is/are the difference.

Or in https://ymba.org/books/entering-tao-sudden-enlightenment/treatise-entering-tao-sudden-enlightenment:

'Q: What does "not dwelling anywhere or on anything" mean? 
A: Not to dwell anywhere or on anything means not to dwell on good or evil, existence or non-existence, within or without or on the middle, nor on concentration nor dispersion, and neither to dwell on the void nor on the non-void. This is the meaning of "not dwelling anywhere or on anything". Just this alone is real abiding. This stage of achievement is also the non-abiding Mind, and the non-abiding Mind is the Buddha Mind.'
...
'In summary, if no thought about these three time periods arises, then the three time periods do not exist. If a thought of moving arises, do not follow it; and the thought of moving will vanish. If a thought of dwelling arises, do not follow it; and the thought of dwelling will vanish. However, grasping at the thought of non-dwelling is abiding in non-dwelling. On the other hand, if you understand clearly that your mind does not abide anywhere whatsoever that is abiding, then you are neither abiding nor not abiding anywhere. If you understand clearly that your mind does not abide anywhere at all, then you are clearly seeing your Original Mind, which is also referred to as "clearly seeing the nature of seeing." Just this Mind, that abides nowhere at all, is the Mind of Buddha and the Mind of liberation, the Mind of Bodhi and the Mind of the Uncreate.'

White Sakura said:
Do you see an essential difference here to what is taught in Vajrayana? I mean, not in the Tantric teachings with visualization of course...

Malcolm wrote:
The difference between sūtra and tantra is not the words as much as the method of being introduced to the path and how one practices, the path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 25th, 2020 at 1:46 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So, your method is simply to rest in the direct perception of the six senses? How is this different than the direct perception of a harrier or a rabbit?

Astus said:
'yet it is not attached to all the locations', 'without defilement or heterogeneity', 'penetrating function without stagnation' is/are the difference.

Or in https://ymba.org/books/entering-tao-sudden-enlightenment/treatise-entering-tao-sudden-enlightenment:

'Q: What does "not dwelling anywhere or on anything" mean? 
A: Not to dwell anywhere or on anything means not to dwell on good or evil, existence or non-existence, within or without or on the middle, nor on concentration nor dispersion, and neither to dwell on the void nor on the non-void. This is the meaning of "not dwelling anywhere or on anything". Just this alone is real abiding. This stage of achievement is also the non-abiding Mind, and the non-abiding Mind is the Buddha Mind.'
...
'In summary, if no thought about these three time periods arises, then the three time periods do not exist. If a thought of moving arises, do not follow it; and the thought of moving will vanish. If a thought of dwelling arises, do not follow it; and the thought of dwelling will vanish. However, grasping at the thought of non-dwelling is abiding in non-dwelling. On the other hand, if you understand clearly that your mind does not abide anywhere whatsoever that is abiding, then you are neither abiding nor not abiding anywhere. If you understand clearly that your mind does not abide anywhere at all, then you are clearly seeing your Original Mind, which is also referred to as "clearly seeing the nature of seeing." Just this Mind, that abides nowhere at all, is the Mind of Buddha and the Mind of liberation, the Mind of Bodhi and the Mind of the Uncreate.'

Malcolm wrote:
Still just prajñāpāramitā. A very fine sūtra too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 25th, 2020 at 1:31 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So we are agreed then. Chan is a sutric tradition.

Astus said:
As Hyujeong summarised:

'The transmission of the mind by the World Honored One at three sites is the gist of Seon; what was spoken by him over his lifetime is the gate of Doctrine. Therefore it is said, “Seon is the Buddha mind; Doctrine is the Buddha word.”'
(Seonga gwigam, §5, in Collected Works of Korean Buddhism, vol 3, p 58)

Malcolm wrote:
Still a sutric tradition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 25th, 2020 at 12:59 AM
Title: Re: Ichinen Sanzen/Mahavairocana /Gohonzon/?Rigpa?
Content:
tkp67 said:
How can all buddha be recognized equally from a mortal perspective when mortality in and of it self is provisional?

I though this was a reason for the lotus, to remove that ignorance.

I have to consider I am way off base here.

Malcolm wrote:
All buddhas have the same realization, the dharmakāya. This means the source of all teachings of the buddhas can be considered to have a single source, buddhahood. But since there are infinite buddhas, there are infinite causes and conditions which leads to their buddhahood. Those infinite causes and conditions make it possible for them to teach infinite sentient beings in all dimensions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 25th, 2020 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: Ichinen Sanzen/Mahavairocana /Gohonzon/?Rigpa?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
But if you study the sūtras layer by later, looking for terms in texts, checking the dates of translations in the Chinese Canon, and so on, you can arrive a pretty accurate picture of the sedimentary layers of Classical Indian Mahāyāna, which then went on to inspire Buddhists in Central Asian, China, and so on.

Minobu said:
So like they are myths...and we believe the Buddha is behind the production of the Myth , so as to it's  becoming a vehicle towards liberation ?

Malcolm wrote:
Everyone has to answer that question for themselves.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 25th, 2020 at 12:32 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
What distinguishes this from prajñāpāramitā?

Astus said:
It is prajnaparamita.

'Good friends, ‘mahāprajñāpāramitā’ is the most honored, the supreme, the primary. It is without abiding [in the present], without going [into the past], and without coming [from the future]. It is from this that all the buddhas of the three periods of time emerge. One should use this great wisdom to destroy the enervating defilements of the afflictions of the five skandhas. Those who cultivate in this fashion will definitely accomplish the enlightenment of buddhahood, transforming the three poisons into morality, meditation, and wisdom.'
(Platform Sutra, ch 2, BDK ed, p 30)
Again, the point is that Chan is a sūtric tradition. It proposes no methods not found in a hundred Mahāyāna sūtras.
I did not debate that.

Malcolm wrote:
So we are agreed then. Chan is a sutric tradition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: Ichinen Sanzen/Mahavairocana /Gohonzon/?Rigpa?
Content:



tkp67 said:
So all of his teachings don't represent a point where that one cause is central for all beings in this world system?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no such thing as single causation. Even Śākyamuni Buddha started out as an ordinary sentient being.

tkp67 said:
The cause and effect of his enlightenment in this world system had a start as an ordinary human. So then it is wrong to assume his had a start in this world system? That this start is where all traditions here have a commonality. A real world commonality? None of this claim interdependent origin.

Malcolm wrote:
Śākyamuni's path to buddhahood started in the hell realms. Further, there will be 1001 Buddhas in this Bhadrakalpa. Śākyamuni is the fourth. So, we have 997 to go.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 11:30 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Crazywisdom said:
I still do not see a method. Cultivate what? Prajna? So how is that done?

Malcolm wrote:
Again, what is the practice method?

Astus said:
'What is nonthought? If in seeing all the dharmas, the mind is not defiled or attached, this is nonthought. [The mind’s] functioning pervades all locations, yet it is not attached to all the locations. Just purify the fundamental mind, causing the six consciousnesses to emerge from the six [sensory] gates, [causing one to be] without defilement or heterogeneity within the six types of sensory data (literally, the “six dusts”), autonomous in the coming and going [of mental phenomena], one’s penetrating function without stagnation. This is the samādhi of prajñā, the autonomous emancipation. This is called the practice of nonthought.'
(Platform Sutra, ch 2, BDK ed, p 33-34)

Malcolm wrote:
So, your method is simply to rest in the direct perception of the six senses? How is this different than the direct perception of a harrier or a rabbit?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 10:59 PM
Title: Re: Ichinen Sanzen/Mahavairocana /Gohonzon/?Rigpa?
Content:


tkp67 said:
This is important from a sense of dependent origin (recognizing all who are effected by original cause) and to establish one mind as taught in the lotus  sutra.

Malcolm wrote:
Dependent origination does not permit "original causation." "Original causation" is nondependent causation by definition.

tkp67 said:
So all of his teachings don't represent a point where that one cause is central for all beings in this world system?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no such thing as single causation. Even Śākyamuni Buddha started out as an ordinary sentient being.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 10:58 PM
Title: Re: The Bee Gathering Nectar From Many Flowers vs The Musk Deer Hunter
Content:
mandog said:
Great, that is very well put advice. I will follow it.

Malcolm wrote:
It arises out of observing myself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 10:55 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
javier.espinoza.t said:
the dharma practiced by tantrikas is oriented to the stubborn ones, those who became too passionate to understand by means of the renounciation way.

Bristollad said:
Tsongkhapa disagrees.

Some say, “Mantra was propounded for the sake of taming desirous trainees, and the Perfection Vehicle for the sake of training trainees free from desire; therefore, meditative cultivation of a path without abandoning desire or of a path that abandons desire is the reason dividing the Great Vehicle into two vehicles.” 

About this let me explain: If the Great Vehicle were divided into two vehicles because among the trainees of these two vehicles there are those who cultivate the path without having abandoned desire and those who cultivate a path abandoning desire, then since both vehicles have both, this feature cannot distinguish the vehicles:

• because there are many householder Bodhisattvas who have entered the path of the Perfection Vehicle but have not abandoned impure deeds, and there are also many skilled in method who out of great altruism act impurely, as in the case of the Brahmin Khyiu Karma (khyi’u skar ma / khye’u skar ma)

• and because among the trainees of the Mantra Vehicle there also are many who have abandoned attachment to the attributes of the desire realm; otherwise, there would be the fault that one could not be freed from the desires of the desire realm until Buddhahood, or the fault that, having attained Buddhahood, one would still not have abandoned the desires of the desire realm.
(Great Exposition of Secret Mantra, Volume I: Tantra in Tibet, 2016 edition)

Malcolm wrote:
However, Sonam Tsemo, who achieved the body of light in front of 40 students, clearly states in his General Explanation of Tantra Divisions:
First, the reason for a categorization into two paths: In general, because all Dharmas are taught for the purpose of the person who the basis to be tamed, there are two classes to be tamed. Also in general, for those of little affliction, and in particular, since they can give up the tormenting attachment to desire, it is said that the Pāramitāyāna is intended for those of dull faculties who wish awakening. However, in general, for some people  afflictions are strong, and in particular, they cannot give up the tormenting attachment to desire, Secret Mantra was taught intending those of sharp faculties who wished unsurpassed awakening.
So, one has a choice of whose opinion to follow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 10:45 PM
Title: Re: Ichinen Sanzen/Mahavairocana /Gohonzon/?Rigpa?
Content:


tkp67 said:
This is important from a sense of dependent origin (recognizing all who are effected by original cause) and to establish one mind as taught in the lotus  sutra.

Malcolm wrote:
Dependent origination does not permit "original causation." "Original causation" is nondependent causation by definition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 10:39 PM
Title: Who is Mahavairocana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Mod Note: This has been split from the https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=25526 thread in the Nichiren sub-forum. The discussion of Mahavairocana has different aspects from a Nichiren perspective and from a more general Mahayana perspective. The discussion was a little bit mixed up so splitting has been messy. Please refer to the original thread for some interesting issues that were raised that may be of interest from a general Mahayana perspective, but please discuss these general issues here rather than in the Nichiren sub thread.
-QQ

Caoimhghín said:
the sūtras are actually a little bit incoherent, it seems, as to precisely what Vairocana is. For instance, the dharmakāya is featureless, yet Vairocana is presented with the features of a saṁbhogakāya.

Queequeg said:
Not necessarily. The Trikaya teaching emerged after the composition of the main body of Mahayana sutras. We might say that trikaya teaching was distilled from the sutras, in the way that abhidharma is distilled from the sutras. Identifying dharma and sambhoga kayas and identifying them with different names, however derived (purposefully, mistakenly) is reasonable. The fact that they are directly associated makes sense.

Malcolm wrote:
In Indian literature, the Trikāya doctrine emerges out of the sūtras associated with the Yogacāra school. The doctrine seems to have been formalized by Maitreyanātha and Asanga.

In pre-Yogacāra Buddhism, there were only two kāyas: dharmakāya and rūpakāya.

In pre-Madhyamaka/PP Buddhism, there was only one kāya mentioned, dharmakāya, that referred to collected words of the Buddha.

The reason there is so much confusion about the three kāyas is that most Buddhists have a revelatory view of the sūtras, assuming eternal doxologies.

But if you study the sūtras layer by later, looking for terms in texts, checking the dates of translations in the Chinese Canon, and so on, you can arrive a pretty accurate picture of the sedimentary layers of Classical Indian Mahāyāna, which then went on to inspire Buddhists in Central Asian, China, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 10:19 PM
Title: Re: Consciousness question
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The study of tenet systems should reduce your concepts. Not increase them.

Rick said:
What would I be without my beloved concepts?

Malcolm wrote:
Awakened.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 10:13 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
These quotes are not promises.

Astus said:
They described the method of sudden enlightenment that is equal to buddhahood. But if you want something in the format of a promise...

Malcolm wrote:
Again, this is theory, not method, rhetorical.
Yes, they all speak of the possibility of buddhahood in a single life, but have no method of ensuring the same.
The method to see the nature of mind is explained again and again, and when the nature is seen, that is attaining enlightenment.

'To practice in every moment of thought is called the true nature. To be enlightened to this Dharma is the Dharma of prajñā, to cultivate this practice is the practice of prajñā. To not cultivate this is to be an ordinary [unenlightened] person. To cultivate this in a single moment of thought is to be equivalent to the Buddha in one’s own body.'
(Platform Sutra, ch 2, BDK ed, p 30)
Again, what is the practice method? What distinguishes this from prajñāpāramitā?

Again, the point is that Chan is a sūtric tradition. It proposes no methods not found in a hundred Mahāyāna sūtras. Sūtra and tantra are distinguished by method: both the method of introducing the path and the method of practice.

Also, "enlightenment" is a stupid word to use in a Buddhist context. I cannot understand why people persist in using it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 8:48 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Crazywisdom said:
These  are   not sutras   from Buddha. They are  pith instructions from lineage masters.   We can talk   about where Bodhidharma got those.

Astus said:
The question was "Where does Chan promise Buddhahood in one lifetime?", and the quotes are from generally accepted Chan classics.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, they all speak of the possibility of buddhahood in a single life, but have no method of ensuring the same.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 8:44 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Varis said:
It often feels like these arguments about Ch'an v. Vajrayana originate in the fact that Ch'an offers many of the same benefits Vajrayana claims to offer exclusively. Namely, Buddhahood in a single lifetime, the integration of daily life and the sense pleasures, etc.
Although I'll admit that Vajrayana has many more methods, particularly when it comes to the intermediate state.

Malcolm wrote:
Where does Chan promise Buddhahood in one lifetime?

Astus said:
The most famous is the Platform Sutra that advocates for "sudden enlightenment" that is a hallmark of Chan teachings. Just look at how Huineng begins:

Malcolm wrote:
These quotes are not promises.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 8:37 PM
Title: Re: The Bee Gathering Nectar From Many Flowers vs The Musk Deer Hunter
Content:
Toenail said:
And what about a great interest in the teacher and not about the particular teaching at the event (that is: no intention to practice it) ?

Malcolm wrote:
Then don’t go.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 11:45 AM
Title: Re: Is this an accurate summation of tantra?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It’s possible your differentiation between folk magic and “sanctioned” magic is a bit dated.

Varis said:
Folk magic influences religiously sanctioned magic and vice versa. So it is in reality more gray, but differentiating between the two is useful.

Although I'll add that some cultures don't have such distinctions at all.

Malcolm wrote:
That distinction does not really exist in Tibetan or Indian society. It’s a western construct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 10:51 AM
Title: Re: Is this an accurate summation of tantra?
Content:
fckw said:
What many Buddhist practitioners don't know is that quite many Buddhist (and non-Buddhist) tantric manuals contain lots and lots of "folk magic".

Varis said:
It's not correct to define the magical rituals in the tantras as folk magic. It's the opposite. Folk magic would be things Tibetans or Indians pass on orally in their homes and villages, outside of the purview of orthodox Tibetan Buddhist and Hindu religious institutions. The action rituals of the Buddhist tantras are supposed to be used for the benefit of all sentient beings, folk magic is not.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s possible your differentiation between folk magic and “sanctioned” magic is a bit dated.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 10:46 AM
Title: Re: The Bee Gathering Nectar From Many Flowers vs The Musk Deer Hunter
Content:
mandog said:
Sometimes I worry I am type 2 instead of type 1.

Malcolm wrote:
Than you should fix that. You should always ask yourself if you are interested in teacher or the teaching. If your interest in the latter is greater than the former, don’t go.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 10:16 AM
Title: Re: The Bee Gathering Nectar From Many Flowers vs The Musk Deer Hunter
Content:
mandog said:
What is the the difference between the bee that gathers nectar from many flowers and the musk deer hunter that kills many deer?

Malcolm wrote:
Respect.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 10:05 AM
Title: Re: Consciousness question
Content:


Rick said:
I can't get me noggin around consciousness being the subject to which things appear. It's so ... impersonal!

Who or what perceives (i.e. interprets, makes sense of, reacts to) the appearances consciousness sees?

Simon E. said:
If it helps, the first time I really got the implications of this teaching I had a kind of vertigo ..Far from some kind of blissful or peaceful state I went into aversion to it. It was like looking over a high cliff into a deep chasm.
Later I was describing this to ( name drop alert) Ajahn Amaro the Dzogchen practising Forest Sangha Abbott and he got very excited and showed me a book he had been studying that day which contained a multi syllabled term for the panic one feels on getting a glimpse of Shunyata.
The real work of integrating that glimpse then begins.

Rick said:
I sometimes play dumber than I am (hard as that might be to imagine) because I like to revisit the fundamentals o'er and o'er again. I got my first nontrivial glimpse of emptiness several years back, from a book written by the Dalai Lama. It was revelatory. But rather than judging the emptiness view to be 'right' and working at assimilating it fully ... I filed it away in my internal library of views, at or near the top for sure, and return to it (pretty much daily) as a precious treasure.

My reaction btw to getting a glimpse of sunyata was: Why of course, makes total sense, I've known this since I was a kid, how could anyone *not* see the world this way?

Malcolm wrote:
The study of tenet systems should reduce your concepts. Not increase them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 9:39 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Stop making repeated claims which you, by your own admission, cannot support.

Varis said:
I learn by arguing and being proven wrong, that's one of my flaws.

Malcolm wrote:
I didn’t prove you wrong; all I proved is that you can’t support your assertion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 7:37 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Stop making repeated claims which you, by your own admission, cannot support.

Varis said:
I learn by arguing and being proven wrong, that's one of my flaws.
Now excuse me while I investigate about the party-hound Bodhisattva.

Malcolm wrote:
PP 8000


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 6:23 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Where does Chan promise Buddhahood in one lifetime? Where does Chan utilize pleasures of the senses as an explicit practice tradition? Citations please.

Varis said:
You're right, it does not promise anything.

Malcolm wrote:
Stop making repeated claims which you, by your own admission, cannot support.


Varis said:
But Ch'an does teach Buddhahood is possible in this body.

Malcolm wrote:
Thus, it is no different than common Mahāyāna.

Varis said:
Explicitly, no, but it's implicit in hua tou practices. As I understand it from the Ganhwa Seon tradition, the hwadu is to be maintained 24/7 regardless of what activity the person is engaged in, and for laypeople that would mean sex too.

Malcolm wrote:
Thus it is no different than common Mahāyāna. For example, the Bodhisattva Dharmodgata partied with 60,000 women without every parting from one-pointed samadhi on prajñāpāramitā.

But partying with women is not a method in common Mahāyāna, and Dharmodgata was quite beyond the affliction of desire already.

Varis said:
Is this not an implicit integration of sense pleasures? Not the same as how Vajrayana integrates sense pleasures into practice, but it's integration nonetheless.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is not what i would consider "integration." But that's just me. YMMV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 5:20 AM
Title: Re: Ichinen Sanzen/Mahavairocana /Gohonzon/?Rigpa?
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
"Does not" have them separate, I meant. The "this figure" was the sutric Vairocana.

Malcolm wrote:
I clarified above that Vairocanajñānasagara was not the figure in the mandala mentioned by QQ.

Caoimhghín said:
Yes, that's why I have to find the quote from the Tendai venerable I remember that implies that his understanding of the figure in the mandala is that which you call Vairocanajñānasagara, the sutric Vairocana-figure. But until I find this, we can assume no such quote exists. Even if such a quote did exist, it is also always possible the speaker was confused.

Malcolm wrote:
Essentially, the Shingon position of Dai NIchi Nyorai as dharmakāya is the same as the Nyingmapa presentation of the adibuddha Samantabhadra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 5:17 AM
Title: Re: The life of the true Buddha, Nichiren Daishonin
Content:
Shotenzenjin said:
A wonderful presentation.
https://nstny.org/new-page-1


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 4:46 AM
Title: Re: Im getting close to understanding anatman but still have some objections
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
I find Madhyamika logic to be inpervious to any attack

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is because Mādhyamikas take no position.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 4:30 AM
Title: Re: Ichinen Sanzen/Mahavairocana /Gohonzon/?Rigpa?
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
Well, then you might have to perhaps modify what you said concerning Tendai. Shingon might still have these two separate, but AFAIK Tendai does not and associates the Vairocana of Avira etc., and of their mandalas, with this figure.


Malcolm wrote:
I never claimed that they did. Indeed, I pointed out they were not the same.

Caoimhghín said:
"Does not" have them separate, I meant. The "this figure" was the sutric Vairocana.

Malcolm wrote:
I clarified above that Vairocanajñānasagara was not the figure in the mandala mentioned by QQ.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 4:20 AM
Title: Re: Ichinen Sanzen/Mahavairocana /Gohonzon/?Rigpa?
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
There is a certain Vairocana identified with an ocean in the Brahmajalasutra and Buddhavatamsaka, but he also has a "great" attached to his name.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct.

Caoimhghín said:
Well, then you might have to perhaps modify what you said concerning Tendai. Shingon might still have these two separate, but AFAIK Tendai does not and associates the Vairocana of Avira etc., and of their mandalas, with this figure.


Malcolm wrote:
I never claimed that they did. Indeed, I pointed out they were not the same.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 4:19 AM
Title: Re: Im getting close to understanding anatman but still have some objections
Content:
smcj said:
Actually this point is off topic. The more pertinent and interesting point is how the individual is understood in terms of no-self.

The Ultimate is remote. The individual is immediate.
Umm, it is precisely on topic, since it addresses the issue of first causes, etc.
So your explanation of anatman proceeding from first cause goes.....how?

Malcolm wrote:
You clearly are not paying attention to the thread of the conversation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 3:54 AM
Title: Re: Im getting close to understanding anatman but still have some objections
Content:
smcj said:
Some tantras make such statements, but they are not literal statements, they are interpretable statements, defined as such in the tantras themselves, as well as their commentarial literature.

But you will never find such statements in the sūtras.
Actually this point is off topic. The more pertinent and interesting point is how the individual is understood in terms of no-self.

The Ultimate is remote. The individual is immediate.

Malcolm wrote:
Umm, it is precisely on topic, since it addresses the issue of first causes, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 3:40 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Bodhidharma was associated with the Lanka Sūtra. Chan is a sutra-based tradition. This does not mean that it necessarily predicated itself on a specific text, but it is upadeśa tradition of sūtric Mahāyāna. The difference between Chan and the kind of late common Mahāyāna we find in Tibetan Buddhism is that Chan is based on definitive Mahāyāna sūtras, whereas, the gradualism that gained political ascendence during the Imperial period was based on provisional sūtras.

VAn Schaik's Tibetan Zen has a very interesting discussion of the overlap between Vajrayāna and Chan in Dunhuang.

Varis said:
I can't argue that it has a sutric basis, but isn't sutrayana as Tibetans understand it the gradualist form of Mahayana? To lump Ch'an under this label seems unfair.

Malcolm wrote:
Not necessarily.


Varis said:
Of course a lot of this is ignoring how Ch'an practitioners concieve of Ch'an in relation to the sutras.

Malcolm wrote:
I am basing my point of view on Tibetans who were very educated in Chan, such as Nubchen Sangye Yeshe, and so on.


Varis said:
It often feels like these arguments about Ch'an v. Vajrayana originate in the fact that Ch'an offers many of the same benefits Vajrayana claims to offer exclusively. Namely, Buddhahood in a single lifetime, the integration of daily life and the sense pleasures, etc.
Although I'll admit that Vajrayana has many more methods, particularly when it comes to the intermediate state.

Malcolm wrote:
Where does Chan promise Buddhahood in one lifetime? Where does Chan utilize pleasures of the senses as an explicit practice tradition? Citations please.

Chan originates in India during the final phase of the Gupta empire. We do not find Vajrayāna claims in Indian Buddhist texts prior to the fall of the Gupta empire.

Zen exhibits rhetorical borrowing from Shingon and Tendai Esoteric Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 3:35 AM
Title: Re: Im getting close to understanding anatman but still have some objections
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
That's because you can't produce a sūtra passage which says this; though certainly in the tantras you can find passages which _seem_ to say things like this; but they cannot be taken literally, nor are they meant to taken literally. Well, because, tantras.

smcj said:
Okay, so the tantras do say it, but they don’t mean it.

Got it.

Malcolm wrote:
Some tantras make such statements, but they are not literal statements, they are interpretable statements, defined as such in the tantras themselves, as well as their commentarial literature.

But you will never find such statements in the sūtras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: Kosa Reading Group ii c: Introduction by Poussin
Content:
Grigoris said:
This is much more explicit in Theravada Abhidhamma as the texts are even labeled as such:  Visuddhimagga (Path of Purification), Vimuttimagga (Path of Freedom), Patisambhidamagga (Path of Discrimination).

They are a step-by-step outline of what how to get there and what to expect along the way.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct. Unfortunately, Abhidhamma (and the manuals developed around it like the ones you list above) developed outside the mainlines of development of Indian Buddhism, and therefore have no value in understanding Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna.

Grigoris said:
I wouldn't say they have "no value".  There are many important insights and explanations that are applicable in the Mahayana and Vajrayana too.

Yes, the paths differ, but some of the landmarks are similar.

Malcolm wrote:
I have read extensively in Abhidhamma. While interesting, it never had any value for me in reading Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna texts. The Kośabhaṣyaṃ however sits on my desk, where it has sat, consulted almost daily, for thirty years. YMMV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 2:45 AM
Title: Re: Im getting close to understanding anatman but still have some objections
Content:
smcj said:
Hmmm...wonder where I’ve heard that before...?
Not in any Buddhist text.
Not taking the bait. There are better things in life to do.

Malcolm wrote:
That's because you can't produce a sūtra passage which says this; though certainly in the tantras you can find passages which _seem_ to say things like this; but they cannot be taken literally, nor are they meant to taken literally. Well, because, tantras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: Im getting close to understanding anatman but still have some objections
Content:


smcj said:
I don’t see an equivalence between “first” and “static”. Nothing says “first” does not include “”dynamic”.

Malcolm wrote:
A first cause is necessarily static since it cannot change. "Dynamic" by definition means "changing": MW has, "marked by usually continuous and productive activity or change." Anything that is active is changing, anything that changes is impermanent, dependent, and cannot be a cause of itself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 2:30 AM
Title: Re: Im getting close to understanding anatman but still have some objections
Content:


smcj said:
Hmmm...wonder where I’ve heard that before...?

Malcolm wrote:
Not in any Buddhist text.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 2:09 AM
Title: Re: Kosa Reading Group ii c: Introduction by Poussin
Content:
PeterC said:
I am looking forward to starting on chapter 1 properly after that academic prelude.

Malcolm wrote:
You should keep in mind that these translators never practiced Abhidharma. And yes, it is a practice text.

Grigoris said:
This is much more explicit in Theravada Abhidhamma as the texts are even labeled as such:  Visuddhimagga (Path of Purification), Vimuttimagga (Path of Freedom), Patisambhidamagga (Path of Discrimination).

They are a step-by-step outline of what how to get there and what to expect along the way.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct. Unfortunately, Abhidhamma (and the manuals developed around it like the ones you list above) developed outside the mainlines of development of Indian Buddhism, and therefore have no value in understanding Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 1:38 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Astus said:
A that's why I asked if there are many methods to generate bliss, or simply many methods among which some may use bliss.

Malcolm wrote:
The latter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 1:24 AM
Title: Re: Kosa Reading Group ii c: Introduction by Poussin
Content:
PeterC said:
I am looking forward to starting on chapter 1 properly after that academic prelude.

Malcolm wrote:
You should keep in mind that these translators never practiced Abhidharma. And yes, it is a practice text.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 12:51 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Astus: this is grouping of creation and completion stages under the rubric of śamatha and vipaśyanā is a kind of Lam rim politics.

Astus said:
Might be so, but such a summary of the so called sutrayana could be called a rough generalisation as well, and quite often the two are practised as one.

Malcolm wrote:
It's simply an inaccurate characterization, just like equating father, mother, and nondual tantra with mahāyoga, anuyoga, and atiyoga.

Astus said:
There are many methods related to mantra recitation, maṇḍala offerings, guru yoga, samaya, mudras, homavidhi and so on, nāḍis, vāyus, bindus, cakras, postural yogas, prāṇāyāma, abhiṣeka as introduction to the path, rather than sign of attaining the result, and so on. You will find none of these methods mentioned in sūtra, apart from the term "mantra," maṇḍala, and abhiṣeka in very limited contexts.
Are they all methods to generate bliss? As for the presence of manifold methods in vajrayana, no doubt about that. At the same time, even to prepare for samatha there are various methods in sutrayana too, not to mention all the others. For instance, in https://ymba.org/books/taming-monkey-mind-guide-pure-land-practice there are 48 methods just for buddha-recollection.

Malcolm wrote:
Sonam Tsemo's reply this objection from General Presentation of the Divisions of Tantra:
Second, “equivalent in many methods”: although is may be true that many methods are explained in Pāramitāyāna, those paths are not given up in Secret Mantra, but the methods of supreme siddhi and common siddhis in Secret Mantra are added to those, and because of the inconceivable methods, the two stages, recitation, fire pūjas, and so on, it is superior.
In other words, common Mahāyāna has many methods. However, in addition to those methods are many unshared or uncommon methods which are not found in sūtra. So by definition, Secret Mantra has more methods. And no, they are not just methods for generating bliss.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: Sunyata and Nihilism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Vajrayāna was from the beginning a late Mahāyāna movement (7th century CE onward). This is why it is termed "Uncommon-Mahāyāna Secret Mantra."

Varis said:
I know, as I stated in another post Vajrayana pretty obviously builds on concepts and practices found in common Mahayana. I'm just separating them for the point of discussion. My point being is it's to easy to see how some, like Tientai or Ch'an schools, would adopt Vajrayana practices as a part of their repertoire.

Malcolm wrote:
They adopted some methods from lower tantra, because in Sino-Japanese Buddhism the distinction between "sūtras" and "tantras" was not so marked, other than in Shingon.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 12:35 AM
Title: Re: Consciousness question
Content:
Rick said:
As for atman/brahman, I flip back and forth between thinking it's a fairy tale and thinking Sankara and his buddies nailed it.

Malcolm wrote:
They didn't, but that's ok. Basically, having watched you flail with this issue for some years now, my unsolicited advice is that you give it a rest.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 12:22 AM
Title: Re: Im getting close to understanding anatman but still have some objections
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
further objection to the kaula/kashmir shaiva viewpoint:something static cannot be a cause giving rise to anything,if it gives rise to something it cannot be said to be static,one,unchanging etc and if a static thing could be a cause,its effect would be static and unchanging aswell,as a cause cannot be dissimilar to a effect.

Malcolm wrote:
What you have basically run up against is the difference between Samkhya, which influences all Indian non-buddhist thinking one way or another, and the Buddhist Abhidharma, which influences as all Buddhist discourse, one way or another.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: Consciousness question
Content:
Rick said:
Okay, consciousness and the object conscious'd arise together. To whom or what does the object appear?

A goose flies over a lake and its image is reflected in the water. To whom or what does this image appear? Who or what sees it?

Grigoris said:
The sensory consciousness.

Rick said:
I can't get me noggin around consciousness being the subject to which things appear. It's so ... impersonal!

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that's the point. No person, self, living being, agent, etc.


Rick said:
Who or what perceives (i.e. interprets, makes sense of, reacts to) the appearances consciousness sees?

Malcolm wrote:
The habit of I-making which has no basis of designation among the five aggregates, and is therefore, simply a false, though deeply entrenched, habituation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 24th, 2020 at 12:00 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Crazywisdom said:
The key distinction is many methods involving the body to generate bliss and make clear the wisdom. Sutras have only samatha-vipassanma. That's just the way it is.

Astus said:
Bliss (sukha) is present in the first three dhyanas, but eventually the yogi lets go of that too in the fourth. As for the "many methods", could you specifically name some others not related to the one method of candali? Also, generation and completion stage practices fit under the categories of samatha and vipasyana.

Malcolm wrote:
Astus: this is grouping of creation and completion stages under the rubric of śamatha and vipaśyanā is a kind of Lam rim politics. However, it does not correspond to the actual structure of the two stages. For example, all creation stage practices begin with dissolution into śūnyatā, which of course is based on having insight into emptiness as a prerequisite.

There are many methods related to mantra recitation, maṇḍala offerings, guru yoga, samaya, mudras, homavidhi and so on, nāḍis, vāyus, bindus, cakras, postural yogas, prāṇāyāma, abhiṣeka as introduction to the path, rather than sign of attaining the result, and so on. You will find none of these methods mentioned in sūtra, apart from the term "mantra," maṇḍala, and abhiṣeka in very limited contexts.

Also the bliss mentioned in the dhyānas, one of the five mental factors associated with the first dhyāna, etc., is not the bliss being referred to in Vajrayāna texts. This bliss here being referred to is physical bliss of the sense organs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 11:45 PM
Title: Re: Im getting close to understanding anatman but still have some objections
Content:
smcj said:
...one of the simplest refutations ive seen of a static cause giving rise to a dynamic effect is that its impossible as cause and effect cannot be dissimilar.
In other words “static cause” an oxymoron, right?

Malcolm wrote:
Not to theists. The Aristotelian term would be "first cause" in the Merriam-Webster's definition: "the self-created ultimate source of all being."

This sort of causation is explicitly negated in Buddhadharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 11:39 PM
Title: Re: Im getting close to understanding anatman but still have some objections
Content:
Grigoris said:
The most obvious example would be the difference between Mahayana and Theravada traditions about the defintion of "enlightenment".

Malcolm wrote:
A term neither tradition in fact uses. [Hint, the back translation of "enlightenment" will never be "bodhi."]


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 11:31 PM
Title: Re: Consciousness question
Content:
Rick said:
Okay, consciousness and the object conscious'd arise together. To whom or what does the object appear?

A goose flies over a lake and its image is reflected in the water. To whom or what does this image appear? Who or what sees it?

Malcolm wrote:
Still searching for that elusive atman. Don't you have better things to do with your time than continuing to search for something that does not exist?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 10:21 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Varis said:
You're attempting to fit Ch'an into a Tibetan model that it's not meant for. Ch'an offers Buddhahood in this body, in one lifetime, and naturally integrates the sense pleasures. This does not fit the sutric path.

Malcolm wrote:
Bodhidharma was associated with the Lanka Sūtra. Chan is a sutra-based tradition. This does not mean that it necessarily predicated itself on a specific text, but it is upadeśa tradition of sūtric Mahāyāna. The difference between Chan and the kind of late common Mahāyāna we find in Tibetan Buddhism is that Chan is based on definitive Mahāyāna sūtras, whereas, the gradualism that gained political ascendence during the Imperial period was based on provisional sūtras.

VAn Schaik's Tibetan Zen has a very interesting discussion of the overlap between Vajrayāna and Chan in Dunhuang.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 9:59 PM
Title: Re: Sunyata and Nihilism
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
No surprise Tantra has incorporated various sectarian Mahayanika perspectives into it? No surprise Tantra imitates other schools in its claims as highest? These things work both ways.

Varis said:
You misunderstand me, I'm saying that some schools of Mahayana incorporated Vajrayana because they were congruent in thought.

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrayāna was from the beginning a late Mahāyāna movement (7th century CE onward). This is why it is termed "Uncommon-Mahāyāna Secret Mantra."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 9:58 PM
Title: Re: Sunyata and Nihilism
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
Nagarjuna was a Tantrika.

Malcolm wrote:
Not the author of the MMK. There isn't slightest evidence for Vajrayāna prior to the mid 7th century.

There was an author also named Nāgārjuna, the founder of the Ārya lineage of Guhyasamaja, but this person certainly lived no earlier than late 8th-early 9th century.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 9:53 PM
Title: Re: Kilung life release
Content:
PeterC said:
Does anyone have personal experience with either of these organizations?

I like the idea of ransoming a yak.  Yaks are nice animals.  The world needs more yaks.

Malcolm wrote:
However, as I mentioned, Tibetans eat way more mutton than yak meat.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 11:52 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
This "sutrayana" thing projected onto zen by tibetans is pretty strange. As I understand it, when Tibetans talk about sutrayana they are referring to using sutra and shastra to arrive at some intellectual/philosophical understanding of emptiness.

Malcolm wrote:
Your understanding is incomplete.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 10:28 AM
Title: Re: Kilung life release
Content:
florin said:
If you want to perform life release go to a petshop. There you can find live crickets and worms for cheap. Life is life.

Norwegian said:
Lots of pet shops in places where crickets don't normally exist, carry crickets (and likewise for other fish, insects, and so on.) So one shouldn't release animals that don't naturally exist in a habitat/the environment. Life release is a horrible practice when done wrong.

Simon E. said:
And almost invariably it will be done wrong. The chances of releasing the various creatures into an environment which will sustain the sudden influx without them starving and or causing environmental damage is remote.
It’s a terrible practice, aimed at providing a feel good factor for those that indulge in it at the expense of even more suffering for the sentient beings who are pawns in this game.

Malcolm wrote:
It can be a sort of mindless act of piety. Anyway, Tibetans eat way more sheep than yaks.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 9:47 AM
Title: Re: Ichinen Sanzen/Mahavairocana /Gohonzon/?Rigpa?
Content:
Queequeg said:
In the Lotus schools, Mahavairocana is an avatar of Tathagata Prabhutaratna (Many Treasures / Taho)

Malcolm wrote:
It is a different Mahāvairocana, also known in Indian sources as Vairocana Jñānasagara (ocean of gnosis). This has nothing to do with the maṇḍalas in Shingon and Tendai. Our world system is located in the palm of his hand. All universes are located in his body. Sometimes this Buddha is referred to as the mahāsambhogakāya.

Caoimhghín said:
There is a certain Vairocana identified with an ocean in the Brahmajalasutra and Buddhavatamsaka, but he also has a "great" attached to his name.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 6:12 AM
Title: Re: Ichinen Sanzen/Mahavairocana /Gohonzon/?Rigpa?
Content:
Queequeg said:
In the Lotus schools, Mahavairocana is an avatar of Tathagata Prabhutaratna (Many Treasures / Taho)

Malcolm wrote:
It is a different Mahāvairocana, also known in Indian sources as Vairocana Jñānasagara (ocean of gnosis). This has nothing to do with the maṇḍalas in Shingon and Tendai. Our world system is located in the palm of his hand. All universes are located in his body. Sometimes this Buddha is referred to as the mahāsambhogakāya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 5:43 AM
Title: Re: Kilung life release
Content:
cjdevries said:
I found the Mahakaruna Foundation, which offers the service of saving a yak from slaughter for only $92, which is much less than Kilung's service http://www.mahakaruna.org/Yak_Saving_Lives.html

Malcolm wrote:
Are we bargain shopping for merit now?

Grigoris said:
For $92 a yak he can save 17 yaks for the price of one yak with the other organisation.

That is 17 times more merit for the same price.  A bargain if I ever saw one (and lots more happy yaks).

Malcolm wrote:
More likely it will be releasing the same yak 17 times.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 5:41 AM
Title: Re: Sunyata and Nihilism
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
Tantra is not my vehicle, and I think that's fine as long as I respect Tantra, and I actually do respect Tantra. Tantra makes some very extreme, and IMO likely hyperbolic, claims about itself and its liberative techniques, and Tantrikas have a lot of faith in their teachers. I've never met a teacher, Tantrika or not, that inspired such conviction in me. Perhaps this is discernment in me or perhaps this is excess of skepticism. The latter is very likely. The problem is, when I imagine myself believing similar things, having similar convictions regarding specific points of tantric methods, I can only imagine myself engaged in vainglory, and this is because of the grand and very profound claims of Tantra. Fusing the path with the result is a very audacious claim, regardless of if it is true or not that such a thing can even be done.

Malcolm wrote:
Even more audacious is asserting a path beyond cause and result, Atiyoga. But you cannot arrive at this intellectually. You need a guru.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 3:23 AM
Title: Re: Kilung life release
Content:
cjdevries said:
I found the Mahakaruna Foundation, which offers the service of saving a yak from slaughter for only $92, which is much less than Kilung's service http://www.mahakaruna.org/Yak_Saving_Lives.html

Malcolm wrote:
Are we bargain shopping for merit now?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 2:27 AM
Title: Re: Sunyata and Nihilism
Content:
tkp67 said:
The personification of my generalizations is not a phenomenon I control.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, you might rein in your generalizations a bit, you are able to control that, and thereby, mitigate responses to them.

tkp67 said:
I can act on this succinctly as it is a simple request. I do not understand it at all. That is, why generalizations would be considered negative.

Malcolm wrote:
Because they do not cover all cases, including exceptions, and people will fault you for not covering the exceptions. For example, if I generalize from my Tibetan Buddhist tradition, other people are likely to object.

For example, I often generalize that that Sino-Japanese Buddhism, apart from Shingon, is sūtra-based Buddhism. This is met with some dismay from Zen people, who, predictably, hotly deny that sūtras are not important in Zen, etc., etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 2:18 AM
Title: Re: Consciousness question
Content:
Rick said:
Is proof offered that sensory consciousness doesn't go dormant and 'scan' continuously for the next sensory object to appear?

Grigoris said:
Theravada Abhidhamma talks about the Bhavanga Citta, (life continuum consciousness) which fills the "gaps" between sensory experiences.

Rick said:
Thanks, Grigoros, I was hoping that one of you Abhidharma scholars were going to chime in, this seems like a question very well-suited for the Abhidharma. So we live like we see movies, by tweening together a sequence of frames that follow in close succession to each other. Does ear consciousness exist in those gaps between the frames?

Malcolm wrote:
There are no gaps because causes and effects are neither same nor are they different.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 2:17 AM
Title: Re: Consciousness question
Content:
Rick said:
Per Buddhism (rather than, say, Vedanta): Consciousness arises together with a conscious'd object. Sensory consciousness (ear, touch, etc.) arises with a sensed object. Right?

What happens to sensory consciousness when there is no object to sense?

Malcolm wrote:
It doesn't arise. But there are six senses, not only five, and so there is never a time when consciousness is actually free from an object.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 2:13 AM
Title: Re: Vajrasattva Question(s)
Content:
Ayu said:
Depends on the empowerment. There's Vajrasattva in Kriya Tantra (I think) and Anuttarayoga Tantra as well.

Malcolm wrote:
Yoga tantra, not Kriya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 2:12 AM
Title: Re: Sunyata and Nihilism
Content:
tkp67 said:
The personification of my generalizations is not a phenomenon I control.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, you might rein in your generalizations a bit, you are able to control that, and thereby, mitigate responses to them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 23rd, 2020 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: What is the link between Karuna and Yeshe
Content:
White Sakura said:
Karuna, is that the compassion that appears naturally if Yeshe (non-dual wisdom) is realized? Or is it called maha-karuna then?

What is the link between karuna and yeshe? Can they be seen as two facets of the same?

And in the six paramitas, is karuna implied in the paramita of wisdom?

Malcolm wrote:
Great compassion arises because the buddhas know that sentient beings are deluded concerning self, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 12:10 PM
Title: Re: Sunyata and Nihilism
Content:



tkp67 said:
Please my dear friend please tell me how this contribution is relevant? It escapes me.

Malcolm wrote:
Compassion does not have the power to liberate.

tkp67 said:
This isn't a thread about liberation via compassion. It is a thread about sunyata and nihilism.

......................

A tremendous amount of effort to put boundaries around the inclusion of compassion in a talk about Sunyata. I don't understand the benefit of that intention.

Malcolm wrote:
You made some claim about compassion as prerequisite  to understanding emptiness in order forestall some imagined deviation into nihilism. Since recognizing the emptiness of phenomena is seeing reality, it is impossible that compassion will not arise, since one will automatically want all other sentient beings to see the same thing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 10:28 AM
Title: Re: Sunyata and Nihilism
Content:
tkp67 said:
Compassion is taught before emptiness for a reason.

Malcolm wrote:
Not necessarily.

tkp67 said:
Please my dear friend please tell me how this contribution is relevant? It escapes me.

Malcolm wrote:
Compassion does not have the power to liberate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 10:13 AM
Title: Re: Sunyata and Nihilism
Content:
tkp67 said:
Compassion is taught before emptiness for a reason.

Malcolm wrote:
Not necessarily.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 7:57 AM
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Content:



Fa Dao said:
Which part? the part where it takes 270 to win? The part where the founding fathers decided against a purely democratic society to keep the mob from controlling everything by using the popular vote? The part where each state has an equal say in the presidential election? The part where if we did try to go to the popular vote that California and NY would control all future presidential elections? I didnt like it either...but it was over 3 years ago..Trump won, Hillary lost..get over it and move on

Malcolm wrote:
The electoral college ensures that states with low, mostly rural populations have more influence in national elections than states with large, mostly urban populations. It is, as others here have pointed out, an institution rooted in slavery, like so much else in the US.

Fa Dao said:
So then you think its fair to take away any say in how our govt operates from all the people in rural areas and small towns across the US?
And here I was thinking that it was based on the founding fathers study of the ancient Greek ideas of a republic vs a pure democracy as found in the federalist papers and elsewhere in their writings and letters..
And of course Im sure that if CA and NY were both predominantly red states you and all the others calling for the end of the electoral college would still be on board with that...

Malcolm wrote:
The founders were not infallible men, for example, writing into the the constitution that negro slaves counted as 3/5ths of a person for census counts, which of course skewed the number of legislative seats in the South. Madison points out that the thinking behind the EC was predicated  precisely on the condition of Slavery in the South:
There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to the fewest objections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College#Original_plan

All in all, a poor solution to accomodate the moral iniquity of Slavery in the Southern states. So forgive me if I insist that the electoral college is both obsolete and harmful to the Republic.

The fact that the last two Administrations who were elected solely on the basis of the electoral college were the two administrations most damaging to the US and our stature in the world should not even be necessary to mention.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 6:53 AM
Title: Re: A Fundamental Practice?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
they hold that this conceptualized emptiness, the absence of inherent existence, is functional simulacrum of the emptiness which is realized in an ārya's equipoise and leads to that realization when properly meditated upon.


cloudburst said:
that's true. Even Mipham calls this the approximate or notational ultimate, depending on whose translation you like. For him it is not the REAL ultimate, but a "gateway to it."

I think same for the Dzogchen crowd and everyone else, but there are terminological disputes here.

Malcolm wrote:
Leaving aside your other comments for now, this is your error: you are claiming that the linguistically-formulated ultimate is an object of meditation for Nyingmapas. This is entirely false. A linguistically-formulated ultimate is not the ultimate free of proliferation to be realized, nor is it a proper object of meditation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 6:25 AM
Title: Re: Giving Up Masturbation
Content:
Wayfarer said:
I think maybe this is the wrong forum for me, I am going to ask the mods to terminate my account for once and for all.

Malcolm wrote:
Don’t be silly. There is certainly no reason for that. But, you are free.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 6:21 AM
Title: Re: Giving Up Masturbation
Content:
Wayfarer said:
That vajrayana Buddhism was brought into a discussion about masturbation and pornography as a justification seems very sad to me.

Malcolm wrote:
Perhaps Vajrayana is more realistic about the human condition than renunciation-oriented forms of Buddhism. it’s origin story, after all, involved an Indian king with 500 wives whom he was obligated to service, so the Buddha taught him a method where he would not have to abandon sense objects, but rather, employ them on the path.

“The fire of gnosis will not burn without the fuel of afflictions” — Garab Dorje.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 3:46 AM
Title: Re: Giving Up Masturbation
Content:
Tiago Simões said:
There are plenty of modern female porn directors who dedicate themselves to making ethical porn. Like Malcolm said, not all porn is the same.

Pornography is a cinematic art, and as such, actors might be abused and exploited, just like in any other cinematic industry. The standards of ethical treatment vary. It's important to evaluate the content you consume, If you are going to consume it. Make sure the platform you are using as a high standards, make sure the actors are well paid and not exploited.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, not all porn is cinematic either. You have porn novels, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: Giving Up Masturbation
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
everyone enjoys it in some form or another."

mirrormind said:
I quit porn when I could not bear anymore to see the empty eyes and the blank stare of the women involved. This realisation was very effective for me. Every once in a while I am tempted again, but each time it has the same effect on me. Compassion is definitely stronger than lust.

Malcolm wrote:
There are all kinds of porn, not all of it is found at Pornhub. These days, some people have turned making it into full time hobby. Like anything, it cannot be reduced to one monolithic entity.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: A Fundamental Practice?
Content:
Ayu said:
Well, I was just saying... But no trouble. Carry on, if your opinion is that important to you.

Queequeg said:
Sorry, Ayu, this is one of those situations where its on you to explain this. My opinion only matters to me so long as it makes sense to me. I've defined, in a way that I think is pretty clear, what I mean. If you're attached to the phrasing that your school promulgates, despite it meaning something else, well... the devil is in the details.

Telling a newbie, "Meditate on emptiness", when you're actually talking about "meditating without an object", then I'm the one who's bad for pointing out the apparent inconsistency between these phrases?

Malcolm wrote:
In the Gelug school, meditation on emptiness is an analytical meditation which begins by searching for the inherent existence of a given thing. It is part of the vipaśyanā phase of their system. When this absence of inherent existence, aka emptiness, is discovered conceptually, the practitioner is supposed to cultivate this emptiness conceptually. One of the famed sequences of this sort of analytical meditation, as it is termed in Gelug, is the seven-fold deconstruction of a cart.

The Gelugpas make a very big deal over what Tsongkhapa termed, "identifying the object of negation." This involved identifying both a subtle as well as a coarse object of negation. The object of negation Tsongkhapa favored is the so-called subtle object of negation, inherent existence. The other object of negation is called the coarse objection of negation, existence, and so on, the so-called four extremes. Tsongkhapa does not like this approach, because he feels it involves an over-negation, and can harm conventional truth, and so on.

So when Gelugpas say they are meditating on emptiness, what they mean is that they are meditating on "the nonexistence of the true existence, which is the emptiness of inherent existence." This is also what it means for Gelugpas to say that it is proper to meditate on emptiness as a conceptual object, because they hold that this conceptualized emptiness, the absence of inherent existence, is functional simulacrum of the emptiness which is realized in an ārya's equipoise and leads to that realization when properly meditated upon.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 1:28 AM
Title: Black in America by David Gamble Jr.
Content:
Unknown said:
I grew up in Reno, Nevada.

In third grade a boy confidently tells me and my brother that his mom said black people cannot swim because our muscles are different than those of white people.

In middle school, standing among a group of white classmates talking video games, I am the only black child. One classmate expresses surprise that my family has enough money to afford a PlayStation.

In high school, I am the only black kid among a group of friends. When sharing drinks in my presence they frequently tell each other not to “niggerlip” the bottles. Even though I object, they continue to use the phrase.

In high school, my brother is at a teen house party that gets broken up by police, a common occurrence. The kids at the party scatter, also a common occurrence. My brother, the only black child in attendance, is the only one on whom a police officer draws a firearm to get him to stop running away. He is 14.

In high school, a group of my white friends frequently sneak on to the outdoor basketball courts at an athletic club to play. They can usually play for hours, including with club members. On the two occasions I attend, club members complain and we are ejected from the club within minutes.

In high school, I am excited about black history month and am talking to a friend about black inventors. My friend snorts and says, “Black people have never invented anything.”

In high school, as graduation approaches, many of my white friends tell me that I am lucky. They tell me that due to my skin color, I will get into any college I want.

I remain in Reno for college.

During college an employer keeps food for employees in the break room refrigerator. One morning I decided to have microwaveable chicken wings for breakfast. The employer tells me I might not want to eat that for breakfast with my skin color. The employer immediately apologizes.

In college I am standing in a group of white friends on campus. A white acquaintance of one of my friends approaches to chat. The acquaintance tells a story about something that frustrated him and then reels off a series of expletives ending with the word, “nigger.” None of my friends corrects him.

In college I visit an antique shop in Auburn, California with my girlfriend, who is white, and her parents. The shopkeeper follows me around the store whistling loudly as I browse, until we leave.

I move to San Diego, California for law school.

In law school, during a discussion in my criminal law class, a white classmate suggests that police officers should take a suspect’s race into account when determining whether there is reasonable suspicion to believe that an individual is committing a crime.

The weekend of my law school graduation my family comes to San Diego. I go to the mall with my brother and sister and visit the Burberry store. Two different employees follow us around the store – never speaking to us – until we leave.

After law school, I return to Reno.

A co-worker jokingly calls me “King David” upon seeing me each day. I joke that I’m not treated like a king. The co-worker then begins to call me “Slave David” each time we encounter one another. When I ask the co-worker to stop because it is hurtful, I am told by my co-worker that this is a problem that I have in my head.

I attend a pub crawl with friends. We end up at a party in a hotel suite in downtown Reno. I am greeted by a white man at the door who loudly expresses surprise that I am an “educated negro” upon hearing me speak.

I walk a friend who is a white woman from a restaurant to her car because it is night time. As we stand by the car chatting, a police officer pulls up and shines a light on us, asking if everything is okay. Once my friend confirms, the officer drives away. I tell her that he was worried about her, she teasingly says, “Oh yeah, because you’re so scary.” Later, I tell another white friend I felt racially profiled by the officer. My friend shrugs and says, “I don’t know man, that’s a stretch.”

A white friend tells me that white voters have become upset at black people because of black people’s liberal use of food welfare benefits. When I point out that more whites than blacks receive welfare benefits in the U.S., my friend expresses confusion at how that could be the case.

I leave a downtown restaurant with my wife. As we walk along the river a homeless man appears to be having a schizophrenic episode, engaging auditory hallucinations. Upon seeing me, he becomes lucid and begins to shout the word “nigger” over and over.

I discover that one of my clients does not want me to represent him as his Public Defender because he does not want a black attorney. I am given the option to withdraw as counsel. I do not.

Last year, I am at a barbecue chatting with a white acquaintance who asks if I have ever experienced racism. When I say it is a nearly daily occurrence, the acquaintance retorts, without missing a beat, “Bullshit.”

Two months ago. I am driving to lunch with the black teen I mentor. At a red light a white woman crosses the street. As I begin to drive, she turns around and screams at us, “F**k you f****ing nigger!”

Before any of these instances, my family of origin moved to Reno, Nevada from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in 1984.

My mother recently told me that when I was a very young child my parents hired a company to remove a tree from our front lawn. Two white men showed up and removed the tree. One of them carved a swastika into the stump. My father had to confront him and ask him to remove it.

Before that, my now 93 -year-old grandfather served in the Army National Guard and was stationed in the U.S. south. Despite being active duty, he was not allowed to eat in restaurants due to “whites only” signage. He had to wait for fellow Guardsmen to bring him food outside.

Not long before that, my family were slaves, owned by Americans of English and Irish descent, which is why – despite being primarily of African descent – I have an English last name.

This is my experience of being black in America. To be black in America is to be told over and over that you are not good enough, that you do not belong, that you are genetically unfit, that your physical presence is undesirable, and that everything about you – right down to your lips – is wrong. It is absolutely true that everyone experiences hardships in life, but the psychological weight of being told both explicitly and implicitly, on a daily basis, that your very existence is objectionable can at times feel unbearable.

And despite this experience, I still love my country, my state, and my city. Despite my experience, I would not choose to be anything other than a black American. The history of black people in this country is one of struggle and triumph. Our people were brought to this country as slaves and against all odds, in the face of seemingly insurmountable obstacles, have made our mark. Through slavery, poll taxes, literacy tests, redlining, and black codes we have persevered. Through the unspeakable horrors of mass lynchings; the Tuskegee syphilis experiments; and the massacres at Tulsa and Rosewood, we have persevered.

Bass Reeves, Dovey Johnson Roundtree, Sarah Boone, Oscar Micheaux, Shirley Chisholm, Dorie Miller, Susie King Taylor, Georgia Gilmore, Octavius Catto, Jack Johnson, Garrett Morgan, James W.C. Pennington. These are just a handful of extraordinary and oft forgotten black Americans who helped to mold and preserve the American Dream. These individuals and their accomplishments should not be regarded as “black history,” but rather as American history.

I am an American of privilege, which makes me an African American of great privilege. I am an attorney. I live in a safe neighborhood. My children do not worry about their next meal. I can afford child care. My family can afford personal vehicles. If my children become sick, I can take them to the doctor. If I am this privileged, and these have been my experiences, primarily in my own hometown, often with friends and acquaintances who are fond of me, and of whom I remain fond even now; just imagine what daily life must be like for a black person in this country who does not enjoy my level of privilege.

The protests in the streets of America are certainly about the killing of George Floyd, but not just about George Floyd. They are about countless black men, women, and children for whom the punishment did not fit the crime – if indeed there was a crime at all. We live in a country where, in order to recall what life under Jim Crow felt like, many white Americans must pick up a history book. Meanwhile, many black Americans need only pick up a telephone, and call their parents.

When we as people of color share our experiences, we are not doing so to score political points, “play the race card,” get sympathy, assign blame, or to make you feel bad about yourself. We are asking you for help. We are asking you to join us in the ongoing fight against racism in our country, because we cannot do it alone. It will take Americans of every stripe to eradicate racism from American society.

I am now asking for your help. Please seek truth and knowledge. When sharing information, please check your sources and make sure that they are reliable. Try to place what is happening today into a historical context. Read about systemic racism and anti-racism. When your friends of color tell you that racism is real and affecting their lives, believe them and then, if you can, do something about it.

My children are likely to attend the same middle school and high school that I did. It is my great hope for them that those around them have the knowledge, compassion, and guidance to know better than to daily deluge them with words that make them doubt their intelligence, their beauty, and their worth as human beings based only on the color of their skin; and instead judge them by the content of their character.

It is for all of the above reasons, and so many more that we proudly say #blacklivesmatter

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/davidjgamblejr


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 21st, 2020 at 1:17 AM
Title: Re: Giving Up Masturbation
Content:


Wayfarer said:
Well, please explain to me, how the performance of sexual acts for an audience for the purposes of attracting either attention or money is *not* a violation of the precept of ‘avoiding sexual misconduct’?  How is it not?

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha nowhere mentions sex work as sexual misconduct. Independent, unmarried people are free to do as they wish. If people are in polyamorous relationships, they are also free, since it is all consensual.

As I pointed out, Āmrapālī was one of the Buddha's direct disciples, and he gave several teachings at her place while she was still working as a courtesan.

And, it is held in the Candamahārośana Tantra that the farm girl who restored the Buddha to health with rice milk was in fact his consort.

And in general, in Vajrayāna, sexual activity is taken into the path, not renounced or avoided. So yes, even porn stars can be good Buddhists if they choose.

Porn is like booze: every one watches it, everyone enjoys it in some form or another, and everyone complains it is "bad."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 10:37 PM
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Content:



Fa Dao said:
Naw man..he won 306 to 232 electoral votes..thats not a slim margin..this is a democratic republic, the popular vote doesnt matter..she knew that going in..to cry foul afterwards is just sour grapes...there was a whole lot of old school liberal working class democrats just like me who simply couldnt vote for her...and it was Bernie who woke a lot of us up to the fact that she was the poster child for establishment corrupt politics

PeterC said:
You don’t really understand how the electoral college works, do you?

Fa Dao said:
Which part? the part where it takes 270 to win? The part where the founding fathers decided against a purely democratic society to keep the mob from controlling everything by using the popular vote? The part where each state has an equal say in the presidential election? The part where if we did try to go to the popular vote that California and NY would control all future presidential elections? I didnt like it either...but it was over 3 years ago..Trump won, Hillary lost..get over it and move on

Malcolm wrote:
The electoral college ensures that states with low, mostly rural populations have more influence in national elections than states with large, mostly urban populations. It is, as others here have pointed out, an institution rooted in slavery, like so much else in the US.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 9:42 AM
Title: Re: Giving Up Masturbation
Content:
Wayfarer said:
Whatever

Malcolm wrote:
You seem to think Buddhist morality is commensurate with some Victorian sensibility about love, passion, and so on. Well, no, it’s just not that way. One of Buddha’s most important disciples was a “working girl.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 9:35 AM
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Content:



Fa Dao said:
I dont like guns anymore than I like a hammer or screwdriver..a useful tool..nothing more, nothing less...easy to be antigun when you live in a rural setting..especially useful now that the national conversation has come to defunding the police...go live in Baltimore, NYC, or L.A. for a couple of years then get back to me....so, respectfully agree to disagree..

Malcolm wrote:
I lived in Boston for years, never felt like I needed a gun once. Not even in Roxbury, Dorchester, East Boston or any high crime area of Boston. I didn’t spend my entire life in the country. And no, it’s not cause the police in Boston were super effective.

Fa Dao said:
And thats one of the great things about the US..you can choose to not have one or to have one...the problem comes in when you try to make that choice for others..I firmly believe the US Constitution and Bill of Rights are the greatest political achievements mankind has had thus far...you obviously dont...and thats ok too..as I said...we can agree to disagree...

Malcolm wrote:
The constitution is amendable. Amendments can be withdrawn. Like Prohibition. The Bill of Rights themselves have been amended. The constitution is a mutable document, and it’s structure allows, with some difficulty, it to be changed to meet modern challenges.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 9:23 AM
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
And I would rather have a Completely-demented Biden as president than the shitshow we have in office today. If you don’t agree, well, what can I say. May be it boils down to the fact that you like guns and I would cancel the second amendment because it’s obsolete and harmful.

Fa Dao said:
I dont like guns anymore than I like a hammer or screwdriver..a useful tool..nothing more, nothing less...easy to be antigun when you live in a rural setting..especially useful now that the national conversation has come to defunding the police...go live in Baltimore, NYC, or L.A. for a couple of years then get back to me....so, respectfully agree to disagree..

Malcolm wrote:
I lived in Boston for years, never felt like I needed a gun once. Not even in Roxbury, Dorchester, East Boston or any high crime area of Boston. I didn’t spend my entire life in the country. And no, it’s not cause the police in Boston were super effective.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 8:58 AM
Title: Re: Giving Up Masturbation
Content:
Wayfarer said:
I respect your scholarship but I don’t agree at all with your libertarian social views, nor do I think they should be conflated.

Malcolm wrote:
Um...that should be libertine, not libertarian. Obscenity laws crashed and burned on Naked Lunch, as they should have.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 8:49 AM
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
And I would rather have a Completely-demented Biden as president than the shitshow we have in office today. If you don’t agree, well, what can I say. May be it boils down to the fact that you like guns and I would cancel the second amendment because it’s obsolete and harmful.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 8:40 AM
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Content:



Fa Dao said:
Naw man..he won 306 to 232 electoral votes..thats not a slim margin..this is a democratic republic, the popular vote doesnt matter..she knew that going in..to cry foul afterwards is just sour grapes...there was a whole lot of old school liberal working class democrats just like me who simply couldnt vote for her...and it was Bernie who woke a lot of us up to the fact that she was the poster child for establishment corrupt politics

Malcolm wrote:
Which means a lot of people by proxy elected this rabid clown, including you, because you all allowed irrational bias to get the better of your common sense, and allowed someone who was in no way qualified to be president to be elected president. What the 2016 election proved is that are a lot racist and sexist people in this country whose thinking is unclear. The argument that Bernie exposed DNC corruption is nonsense. No one who has been paying attention was up under any illusion that the party nomination process is not rigged from the start, in general.  But I guess people got tired of winning under Obama’s policies, and decided to back a total loser, DJT.

Fa Dao said:
Oh I see..so instead of the DNC learning its lesson from the last time we were asked to "hold our nose" and vote for Hillary they give us Biden as a response...seriously?? Screw that!! I will probably be sitting this one out as well until they give us someone we can stand behind and not be embarrassed by..Biden is Hillary lite with dementia...

Malcolm wrote:
This kind of thinking is precisely the same sort of thinking that elected Trump last time. Emotional, and not based in a cold, rational, assessment of the facts before us. But it’s a free country and I cannot tell you what to do when you vote. But I can sure hold you responsible if you make a poor choice. The stakes are different, and have been for some time, which is I why I was telling all of you Trump is fascist way back in 2015.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 8:28 AM
Title: Re: Giving Up Masturbation
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Then of course there is the “hand” mudra in Vajrayana practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 7:00 AM
Title: Re: Giving Up Masturbation
Content:
Wayfarer said:
And also if traditional Buddhists speak up against liberal moral views, it doesn't necessarily go well for them.

Malcolm wrote:
.

But we see again and again, people who claim to be against porn, abortion, drugs, and so on, are total hypocrites.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 6:51 AM
Title: Re: Giving Up Masturbation
Content:
krish5 said:
Thank you for your input. So basically most are saying the positives of sex/masturbation, in moderation, outweighs celibacy and abstinence for non monastics like myself.


Sādhaka said:
I wouldn't frame it: “sex/masturbation” though. Two totally  different ballgames (pun not originally intended, but I’ll roll with it).

Many things that the NoFap movement says about porn and how it divorces the mind & body from reality, are true. Not to put any sanctimonious moral judgement on it, it’s just that it seems that the science shows how pmo (porn masturbation orgasm) has little to no benefit.

For example, from what I’ve read studies have shown that masturbation does not increase testosterone, whereas actual sex does increase testosterone in men.

krish5 said:
Thank you. This is a embarrassing thread, and just trying to keep it sounding somewhat normal, natural, lol. Porn is not healthy, agreed.

Malcolm wrote:
IDK, compared to Philosophy in the Bedroom or 120 Days of Sodom by De Sade,or Story of the Eye by Bataille, today’s porn is pretty vanilla. If anything, it is not content that is problematical, but the lack of regulation as well as the kind of exploitation that women suffer in the Porn industry that is an issue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 6:41 AM
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Content:


Fa Dao said:
Maybe not this time but definitely in 2016..at a time when he was the only one who could have beat Trump. There was no way Hillary was going to win...she was the poster child for everything Bernie had railed against for 30+years..the majority of the country had simply had enough of establishment politics and partially for that reason Trump won. At the time Bernie wanted to limit illegal immigration to keep wages from sinking and spend money on the infrastructure to create good paying jobs...so did Trump..that and that he got screwed by Hillary and the DNC was why a small % of Bernie voters voted Trump

PeterC said:
Trump won the electoral college due to a margin of fewer than a hundred thousand votes in three counties, and lost the popular vote conclusively.  That was after the help of James Comey reopening a federal investigation into Clinton during the election as a publicity stunt. Yes Clinton was the wrong candidate, Sanders would have won. But It’s wrong to believe that Clinton was doomed.  She had a very good chance of winning.

Fa Dao said:
Naw man..he won 306 to 232 electoral votes..thats not a slim margin..this is a democratic republic, the popular vote doesnt matter..she knew that going in..to cry foul afterwards is just sour grapes...there was a whole lot of old school liberal working class democrats just like me who simply couldnt vote for her...and it was Bernie who woke a lot of us up to the fact that she was the poster child for establishment corrupt politics

Malcolm wrote:
Which means a lot of people by proxy elected this rabid clown, including you, because you all allowed irrational bias to get the better of your common sense, and allowed someone who was in no way qualified to be president to be elected president. What the 2016 election proved is that are a lot racist and sexist people in this country whose thinking is unclear. The argument that Bernie exposed DNC corruption is nonsense. No one who has been paying attention was up under any illusion that the party nomination process is not rigged from the start, in general.  But I guess people got tired of winning under Obama’s policies, and decided to back a total loser, DJT.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 5:20 AM
Title: Re: Guru Rinpoche prayers that may be recited without Oral Transmission?
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
Beautiful! Thank you
I'm glad you like it, and thank you everyone for your suggestions. I'll take a look at some of the other prayers that were posted. One last question about a group of prayers called "Le'u Dünma" along with The General Visualization for Prayers to Guru Rinpoche by Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo. Is this group of prayers with its visualization as a whole permitted for anyone to use or is there an empowerment needed? I'm more interested in the general visualization as it seems most prayers are ok as previously stated. i wasn't as clear in my last post about them so i wanted to link them here.

the visualization and cycle of prayers:Le'u Dünma Collection – LotsawaHouse.pdf

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, if you can get the lung, it is better, but these are standard prayers and you don't necessarily need a lung. The Seven Chapter prayer does not have an empowerment per se, but there is a section of it that does, the Sampa Lhundrupma, nevertheless, to recite this one does not need to the lung, necessarily. But if you can get the lung, it is a little better.

However, for the JKW practice appended to this, you would need the lung for that. But it is easy to get.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 4:45 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Manjushri said:
I thought that systemic racism meant that racism was formally constituted in the laws, rules and guidelines of governments, companies and organizations. Perhaps this definition is incorrect and is the source of misunderstanding?

Malcolm wrote:
If this is what you thought, then I forgive you for your misunderstanding. Systemic a.k.a Structural Racism:

A system in which public policies, institutional practices, cultural representations, and other norms work in various, often reinforcing ways to perpetuate racial group inequity. It identifies dimensions of our history and culture that have allowed privileges associated with “whiteness” and disadvantages associated with “color” to endure and adapt over time. Structural racism is not something that a few people or institutions choose to practice. Instead it has been a feature of the social, economic and political systems in which we all exist.
https://www.aspeninstitute.org/blog-posts/structural-racism-definition/

Brexit, for example, is predicated on the structural or systemic racism which permeates UK culture.

One does not have to be racist to be a participant in systemic racism, one merely has to be a beneficiary of it. Western Europe and America are structurally racist due to the very workings of colonialism, capitalism, and imperialism, and all the benefits we as white people have gained from this historical set of circumstances.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 3:58 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
...

Manjushri said:
Malcolm, repeating the same thing over and over again does not make it true. Re-read the previous messages, eventually it will come to you.

Malcolm wrote:
When people are not listening, then one must repeat oneself. You decided to take up cause of Officer McMuffin. You decided that her suffering was equivalent to the suffering of George Floyd, etc. I am just telling you it isn't.


Manjushri said:
Black lives matter indeed, I do agree with it. All sentient beings matter.

Malcolm wrote:
But in American and Europes, demonstrably, black lives do not matter as much as white lives.


Manjushri said:
Also, I didn't formulate a syllogism, I merely transcribed our assertions to a plainer dialogue between two speakers A and B.

Malcolm wrote:
Don't be so dishonest. Of course you formulated a syllogism.

Manjushri said:
I'm blind in your eyes. You are blind in mine. Amusingly enough, the results of our political compasses are practically identical.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't pretend that in Western Europe and America there isn't systemic racism. You pretend that Europe has overcome systemic racism. You are completely wrong. Our political compass will never be anywhere near identical as long as you insist there is no systemic racism in Europe. For as long as you insist there is no systemic racism in Europe, you are part of the problem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 3:32 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Manjushri said:
No one said there's no racism in Europe. It's simply not systemic.

Malcolm wrote:
Apparently the EU does not agree with you:

https://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2018/being-black-eu

Manjushri said:
Racial discrimination and harassment are commonplace. Experiences with racist violence vary greatly across countries, but reach as high as 14 %. Discriminatory profiling by the police, too, is a common reality. Hurdles to inclusion are multi-faceted, with many respondents facing discrimination during their job search and when looking for housing.

Malcolm wrote:
This is precisely what systemic racism is.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 3:26 AM
Title: Re: practice withouth empowerment
Content:
RisingSunyata said:
Hey guys, past few weeks i have been quite frightened with the idea permanently breaking my connection with vajrayana because of what i did. I have done a practice around 5 or 6 times of which i thought i had the empowerment and permission, but then discovered that i do not have it. Now i'm afraid i cannot practice vajrayana anymore and will go to Vajra Hell. I dont have a Vajrasattva empowerment, so i cant recite the 100 sylable mantra. Besides that, is there anyway that i cant ammend this?

Malcolm wrote:
Um, we all make mistakes. You realized you erred. relax, carry on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 2:53 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
As I said, you are misapplying the fallacy.

Manjushri said:
A: Saying all lives matter is racist.
B: Bodhicitta says all lives matter and are worthy of compassion.
A: That's not true bodhicitta, that's kumbaya bodhicitta.

Malcolm wrote:
As I said, you are misapplying the fallacy. You apparently do not understand the connotation of what "all lives matter" as a response to "black lives matter" entails. If you did, you wouldn't bother with the silly syllogism, which is deformed anyway. It should be:

A: The statement "all lives matter" is racist.
B: Bodhicitta states "all lives matter."
A: Bodhicitta is racist.

No, you didn't knock down anything. You just misapplied another fallacy.
Sigh... I was talking about you, not me.
Not my fault you misapplied the fallacy.

No one said there's no racism in Europe. It's simply not systemic. Obviously there is racism, hence the absurd and baffling rise of many despicable far-right parties.
Sadly, you are blind.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 1:57 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:


Manjushri said:
No true scotsman.

Malcolm wrote:
Um no. You are misapplying the fallacy here.

Manjushri said:
If it's kumbaya bodhicitta, it's not true bodhicitta.

Malcolm wrote:
As I said, you are misapplying the fallacy.



Straw man.
Another fallacy misapplied.
Knocked down a misconstrued version of the argument. Never claimed it was the same thing, one implies the other.
No, you didn't knock down anything. You just misapplied another fallacy.
Then who's colour blind?
No one, actually. When people stop being racist, then at that point we can talk about going beyond skin color, but as long as black and brown people are met with gross racism in America and Europe, well...tell it to them:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 1:36 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
She was, but if she thought about for a half-second, she would realize that McDonald's employees these days are surveilled at work.

Grigoris said:
We always were, 24/7 and that was back in the early '90's.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 1:32 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist intentional communities and communes
Content:
Shotenzenjin said:
I spent some time in various anarchist and anarcho-communist and anarcho-primativist communes in my time.

I'm curious if any buddhsit intentional communities or communes exist for lay practitioners?

If not then I'd like to have a discussion regarding planning and forming one.

Malcolm wrote:
It only works if people share the same practices. Dzogchen Community is by and large a nonresidential intentional community.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 1:26 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Grigoris said:
Pandering to her self-centred sense of entitlement is not going to help her either.  It will just reinforce her already awful behaviour.

When I go to a restaurant I don't have to worry about getting an extra serving of McMucus in my sandwich...

Malcolm wrote:
She didn't either.

Grigoris said:
I didn't say she did, but she was certainly WORRIED that she did.

Malcolm wrote:
She was, but if she thought about for a half-second, she would realize that McDonald's employees these days are surveilled at work.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 1:16 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Kumbaya "bodhicitta" can certainly be construed as racist.

Manjushri said:
No true scotsman.

Malcolm wrote:
Um no. You are misapplying the fallacy here.
In any case, compassion and bodhicitta are not the same thing.
Straw man.
Another fallacy misapplied.
Moreover, this "black and white weltanschauung" assumes the notion of color-blindness, which is equally racist.
You said it, not me.
I don't pretend to be color-blind, never have.

May the pain of every living creature
Be completely cleared away.
Yup, but Officer McMuffin still does not have my sympathy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 1:12 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Grigoris said:
Pandering to her self-centred sense of entitlement is not going to help her either.  It will just reinforce her already awful behaviour.

When I go to a restaurant I don't have to worry about getting an extra serving of McMucus in my sandwich...

Malcolm wrote:
She didn't either.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 1:06 AM
Title: Re: Practice question
Content:


Rick said:
But I still don't get what 'omniscient' means. At first I thought it meant all-knowing, like God. And "able to react appropriately and spontaeously to each and every event" might be a description of what an omniscient person can do, but it doesn't say much about what omniscient actually means. What does an omniscient Buddha know: the true nature of reality, the vector of each particle-wave, all events in all locations in all times?

Malcolm wrote:
Fundamentally, omniscience in the Buddhist context means knowing everything there is to know about all paths of liberation of śrāvaka arhats, pratyekabuddhas, and buddhas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 1:05 AM
Title: Re: Practice question
Content:
Rick said:
Translating "'eradicating the traces that cause birth in samsara'" to "removing the causes of perpetual dissatisfaction" is clear and afaik correct.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is not what that means.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 1:05 AM
Title: Re: Practice question
Content:
Rick said:
If I might continue this a bit ...

How would you translate 'eradicating the traces that cause birth in samsara' into non-Buddhist terms? Or can't that be done, does it have no meaning outside of the Buddhist context?

Same for 'omniscience.'

Malcolm wrote:
Can't be done.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 12:35 AM
Title: Get a clew
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/clue-or-clew


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 12:02 AM
Title: Re: A Fundamental Practice?
Content:


cloudburst said:
Not much of an argument, to be honest.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't have time to type things out that you can easily read.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 20th, 2020 at 12:01 AM
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Content:
Fa Dao said:
It was the DNC and Hillary that screwed Bernie in 2016, and again the DNC in 2020..Trump, for once, had nothing to do with it

Malcolm wrote:
Nah, the DNC didn’t screw Sanders this time, he just didn’t get the votes.

Fa Dao said:
Maybe not this time but definitely in 2016..at a time when he was the only one who could have beat Trump.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, he got screwed.


Fa Dao said:
There was no way Hillary was going to win...

Malcolm wrote:
Nope, she would have won, but for Comey. And she did in fact win the popular vote, which means that 4 million more people voted for her than Herr Trump.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 11:59 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:


Manjushri said:
She is a sentient being suffering due to ignorance and regardless of her clothing, skin colour or work branch, she deserves compassion.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but not necessarily sympathy, as I explained above. And frankly, you are here bordering on the racist slogan, "all lives matter." Not surprising, considering you deny that there is systemic racism in Europe.

Manjushri said:
Interesting. So I guess Bodhicitta is now a borderline racist concept. Guess that's the natural extension of a black and white weltanschauung. Not surprising, considering you already previously labelled my concern with all beings as "hand-wringing".

Malcolm wrote:
Kumbaya "bodhicitta" can certainly be construed as racist, if it equivocates the anxiety of a white police officer who melts down over an egg sandwich she will never eat with the anxiety of a black women who fears she is going to be shot when three white bank employees accuse her of fraud and call 911, so yeah.

In any case, compassion and bodhicitta are not the same thing.

Moreover, this "black and white weltanschauung" assumes the notion of color-blindness, which is equally racist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 11:28 PM
Title: Re: Guru Rinpoche prayers that may be recited without Oral Transmission?
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
Thanks Malcom,

are there any other prayers to Guru Rinpoche you would recommend? Im currently also looking at the prayer in seven chapters with refuge, bodichitta cutivation, and the seven branch prayer that is associated with it. It has a forward faceing visualization of Guru Rinpoche, and im not sure if i would be permitted to practice it without instruction. I'm really just trying to find were the cut off line is as i dont want to practice or pray anything frivolously without knowing if there are any empowerments needed, commitments or vows that are expected to be followed.

With me not haveing a really firm foundation in Tibetan Buddhism or a guru i would rather be studious about these things without throwing caution to the wind, and merely practiceing whaever sparks my fancy. I remember reading your posts regarding initiations that engaging in certain practises without empowerment will only burn through merit being worst than useless because of not being properly brought into the mandala of a practice with its empowerments. So i guess i would rather be safe then sorry hence the caution lol.

Malcolm wrote:
Barchey lamsel, the six line version. Three Kaya Guru know as Lama Kusum, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 11:22 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
She is neither a child nor a patient in psychiatric hospital. She is a heavily-armed LEO having a meltdown over an egg sandwich she chose not to wait for.

Manjushri said:
She is a sentient being suffering due to ignorance and regardless of her clothing, skin colour or work branch, she deserves compassion.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but not necessarily sympathy, as I explained above. And frankly, you are here bordering on the racist slogan, "all lives matter." Not surprising, considering you deny that there is systemic racism in Europe.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 11:00 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
DharmaN00b said:
^ ^ good post.

My friend and I used to have so much fun and laughter. Now whenever I see him we just end up getting hammered and talking politics.

It never ends well. We rarely see each other anymore.

On here you never know anyone's background. Sometimes they've had a stressful day, and everyone is stressed at the moment. It is hard to stay grounded

Malcolm wrote:
These times are not much fun for anybody.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 10:56 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
You can get upset about this portrayal of her, but (for instance) black people (and especially poor young black men who fill the jails and prisons) face far worse portrayals in social media and other media all the time. This lady being made fun of for her cringey moment is small potatoes, and honestly is a good portrait of privilege, both in terms of the racial angle and the cop one. I don't wanna dwell on it, but I have to admit it is funny to me. This person needs to wake the F up.

Manjushri said:
Personally, to make fun of one person while suffering is a bit unseemly. One may argue she might be deluded or childish in regards to her groundless conjecture as a source for her anxiety. Still, I find it distasteful to ridicule her to this extent. Children and mental patients often suffer due to imaginary subjects, but not many people would find it reasonable to ridicule them, I suppose. Wouldn't it be a more effective pedagogical and humane approach to dispel their ignorance by attempting to guide them through with compassion?

Malcolm wrote:
She is neither a child nor a patient in psychiatric hospital. She is a heavily-armed LEO having a meltdown over an egg sandwich she chose not to wait for. Right now, in the US, the police are not very popular because they engage in a lot of explicitly racist violence or are summoned by other racist white people to prosecute their racism with the power of the state.  However, Officer McMuffin's anxiety is nothing compared to this:
Clarice Middleton shook with fear as she stood on the sidewalk outside a Wells Fargo branch in Atlanta one December morning in 2018. Moments earlier, she had tried to cash a $200 check, only to be accused of fraud by three branch employees, who then called 911.

Ms. Middleton, who is black, remembers thinking: “I don’t want to die.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/business/banks-black-customers-racism.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.tiktok.com/@joegotti96/video/6821575139763834118


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 9:49 PM
Title: Re: Bernie 2020
Content:
Fa Dao said:
It was the DNC and Hillary that screwed Bernie in 2016, and again the DNC in 2020..Trump, for once, had nothing to do with it

Malcolm wrote:
Nah, the DNC didn’t screw Sanders this time, he just didn’t get the votes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 10:44 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:



tkp67 said:
Read the title Johnny

This isn't about her it is about apathy to police who are human and a small percentage represent active racism. Many are simply apathetic to racism which is a fabric of western society.

Malcolm wrote:
Apathy towards racism is racism.

tkp67 said:
Is is passive not active and is a different level of ignorance. These people will fall in line with the lowest common denominator but they won't set the bar that low themselves.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s still racism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 10:43 AM
Title: Re: A Fundamental Practice?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The fault of which Gorampa, as well as Mipham etc., accuse Gelugpas is the assertion that it is appropriate to meditate on a conceptualized emptiness below the path of seeing.

cloudburst said:
This discussion on the table was your claim that "making emptiness an object is impossible" was a common criticism of the Gelugpa approach.

I gave an example with clear citations from a prominent Nyingmapa who explains that, with reference to Aryas, "It is quite acceptable to speak in such terms," meaning that there is no fault in discussing emptiness as an object.

so your claim that the fault being discussed is "that it is appropriate to meditate on a conceptualized emptiness below the path of seeing " is actually a red herring, although it could be an interesting conversation in itself.
I'll start ... Below the path of seeing, all meditation on emptiness is conceptual, by definition.


Malcolm wrote:
Thus, your assertion that this Nyingmapa holds that it is proper to meditate on emptiness as a conceptual object is mistaken.

cloudburst said:
my assertion was that said Nyingmapa holds that
Cloudburst said:
From the conventional point of view, it is appropriate to say that the meditative equipoise of superiors takes emptiness as an object

cloudburst said:
which is exactly what he says
Mipham said:
From the conventional point of view, we can say that the meditative equipoise of the Aryas is the subject and the Dharmadhatu is the object.... It is quite acceptable to speak in such terms

Malcolm wrote:
You fail to understand the issue. Read Giorampa, then reread Mipham, especially on this point. You will see their position is the same.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 10:01 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
PeterC said:
It’s the “both sides” rhetorical tactic.  “Look, people on our side are suffering too!  Perhaps your side has gone too far! We all need to calm down and be reasonable!”

What passes for public discourse these days is asinine.  The guards at Auschwitz suffered.  Doesn’t mean they’re the first people in Auschwitz we should be concerned about if we happened to turn up there with an army.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I'm really flabbergasted that anyone went to any length to defend the woman in this video. Seriously, "I don't feel safe about my Muffin because some McRuffian might spit in it".

How is there any kind of "debate" to be had about this?

tkp67 said:
Read the title Johnny

This isn't about her it is about apathy to police who are human and a small percentage represent active racism. Many are simply apathetic to racism which is a fabric of western society.

Malcolm wrote:
Apathy towards racism is racism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 6:58 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
That video is freaking hilarious. I can't believe a serious discussion even ensued over it.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I thought so. And yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 6:58 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No one said we should not be compassionate towards her. Compassion and sympathy are two different things.

Caoimhghín said:
Tbh, I know these terms as synonyms. How do you know them?

Malcolm wrote:
Compassion, karuna, is the wish that another person be free of suffering and its causes; sympathy is a feeling of commiseration with another.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 4:02 AM
Title: Re: Guru Rinpoche prayers that may be recited without Oral Transmission?
Content:
The Mantra Mongoose said:
Hey Guys,

Recently,  I've been drawn to Guru Rinpoche and different prayers to him. In particular the seven line prayer has been one of them due to it being talked about on the forum. I ended up memorizing the seven lined prayer and would like to memorize other prayers to Guru Rinpoche, but i wanted to know which prayers would be ok for a individual without transmission to recite? I would like to eventually receive transmission for all these prayers, but currently due to personal circumstance i may have to wait a while.

For example, is this prayer by Rigdzin Jigme Lingpa ok for everyone to recite if they wanted? i find it to be one of the most beautiful prayers I've seen and really would like to start reciting it if its ok.To Make the Tears Fall.pdf

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, of course you may.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 4:01 AM
Title: Re: Practice question
Content:
Rick said:
Now that we're talking about practice, might as well ask:

What is the goal of practice?

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on your motivation. But, simply put, it's purpose is 1) freedom, eradicating the traces that cause birth in samsara 2) and omniscience, the state that characterizes buddhahood.

Rick said:
The goal of practice is enlightenment? And without practice, enlightenment is not in the cards, no matter how deep one's understanding?

Malcolm wrote:
Some people wake up through pure understanding, with no practice at all.

Other people have to make a little more effort.

But what is the purpose of waking up? It's purpose is 1) freedom, eradicating the traces that cause birth in samsara 2) and omniscience, the state that characterizes buddhahood.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 4:00 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
We don't need to get personal. What's with this sudden Dan-hating?

I'm finished being sarcastic. This post isn't.

Norwegian said:
Dan is complaining that we aren't compassionate enough towards her. And I think that is a misplaced complaint. That is all. I think it's out of place to say something like this, considering everything that is going on right now.

Caoimhghín said:
Fair enough. Maybe this is just a cultural difference then. Here, where I am, to call out why we might needn't be compassionate toward her is a fine business, but once we name names, it's personal.

Also, we need be compassionate towards her, but for the right reasons.

Malcolm wrote:
No one said we should not be compassionate towards her. Compassion and sympathy are two different things.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 3:32 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
tkp67 said:
Seeing things empty in all directions and times still leaves plenty of meat on the bones of banal conversation regardless of how flowery the verbiage. For example. That cop video is a perfect example of an ignorant sentient being who is unaware of their own ignorance. Underneath that she is pure. Yes she appears shallow but that is a reflection the realms she is trapped in.

Yes we can make the case from either side of her distress, as a companion or as an antagonist but this is still just the view of a person adhering t o the paradigm of their own mind's creation. Perfect for evaluation from any realm but most productive from the perspective of buddhist realms ( if we get past the samaric ones).

Both cops and poor minorities are pitted against each other in this oligarchy's game of thrones.

Malcolm wrote:
The difference is that the cops are the instruments of the oligarchs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 3:24 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:



Dan74 said:
I have no idea wtf you are about, C. I see no reason to ridicule her. She says so herself that she is filled with anxiety and too nervous to take a meal, even though she is hungry. I don't know what she's been through and don't find people's mental health struggles funny.

Or blonde female cops are good fodder for whatever nastiness we need to project right now? Is that it??

Caoimhghín said:
This video is being used for political purposes. Now you've made me drop my sock-puppet. Alas. And it was my favourite.

Dan74 said:
Yeah, clicking on twitter, it looks like it was. Basically this woman, who is clearly struggling, was pleading for some understanding for the cops and what she is getting is ridicule. Might lead her to the same kind of place that your aunt was in. And we, Dharma practitioners, rejoice in that..?

Malcolm wrote:
The woman is a racist. She had absolutely no reason to suspect that her food was being tampered with.

The anxiety she feels from doing her job is nothing like the anxiety black, brown, and native people in this country experience just going to the store. Your privilege is showing again, Dan. XYZ.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 3:12 AM
Title: Re: Practice question
Content:
Rick said:
Now that we're talking about practice, might as well ask:

What is the goal of practice?

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on your motivation. But, simply put, it's purpose is 1) freedom, eradicating the traces that cause birth in samsara 2) and omniscience, the state that characterizes buddhahood.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 3:06 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
Ah, now you, Malcolm, in your liberal hubris, claim to define terms for us from your ivory tower we've no evidence you live in. Keep your crosses to bear, for Jesus has no place in the hearts of Buddhists with right libertarian view.

Right view is right view.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I said you couldn't define greg as a liberal, however you define the term. The proper ironic response is to castigated me for defining greg without his permission.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 2:38 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
But Greg did not say that McDonald's served donuts, he merely recommended she be handed one, as fast as possible.

Caoimhghín said:
And you don't think that it was the McDonald's staff, those poor working-class waifs, that were being ordered, rhetorically as it may be, to give her a doughnut?

Malcolm wrote:
Um, no...

Caoimhghín said:
Greg as a typical liberal gave us so little context to his statements that we could also call them careless, stereotyping, and potentially libellous. He needs to be careful when he speaks, because if that's what it meant, it was so careless it verged on chauvinist.

Malcolm wrote:
Greg isn't a liberal, no matter how you define the term.


Caoimhghín said:
I'm committed to this.

Malcolm wrote:
We all have our cross to bear.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I have no words:


Grigoris said:
Somebody give that cop a donut!  Quickly!

Caoimhghín said:
Actually, Grigoris, if you'd bother to think things through and do some basic research, you would find that she was coming off a night shift, and they would have been serving breakfast, and McDonald's doesn't have doughnuts on its breakfast menu, let alone their lunch menu, fool! This fundamental lack concern about the facts of the case and unwillingness to engage in even the barest of efforts to inform yourself means that now I can't trust you, and anything you have to say about race and class is now suspect, and I can continue to advocate any conservative bullshit that comes to my mind and not concern myself with engaging with any responses from you.


Malcolm wrote:
But Greg did not say that McDonald's served donuts, he merely recommended she be handed one, as fast as possible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 2:18 AM
Title: Re: A Fundamental Practice?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Source?

cloudburst said:
The Wisdom Chapter: Jamgon Mipham's commentary on the ninth Chapter of the Way of the Bodhisattva\
From the conventional point of view, we can say that the meditative equipoise of the Aryas is the subject and the Dharmadhatu is the object. And it is on such a basis that the Dharmadhatu can be considered an object of knowledge. It is quite acceptable to speak in such terms

Malcolm wrote:
This does not mean one is taking emptiness as a conceptual object. One is not meditating on the concept "this is the dharmadhātu" or "this is emptiness."

cloudburst said:
Now, when it is said that the Dharmata or the ultimate nature is not an object of knowledge, this means that since the dharmata transcends all conceptual constructs, it is not conceivable.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, dharmatā is not a conceptual object. One does not meditate on the concept, "this is dharmatā."

cloudburst said:
Now, if the ultimate is not even the object of an Arya's mind, it would make no sense that it is through focusing on the ultimate that all the qualities of elimination and realization occur. If it is not cognized by the meditation of Aryas, this meditation ceases to be the subject that cognizes the Dharmadhatu.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, but this is not a meditation on a concept, "this is emptiness."

The fault of which Gorampa, as well as Mipham etc., accuse Gelugpas is the assertion that it is appropriate to meditate on a conceptualized emptiness below the path of seeing.

Thus, your assertion that this Nyingmapa holds that it is proper to meditate on emptiness as a conceptual object is mistaken.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 2:08 AM
Title: Re: When reading a Tantra
Content:
javier.espinoza.t said:
Hi,

i would like to ask ¿is the reading of Tantra is like the reading of Sutra? in particular ¿is it is good to pronounce it?

Secrecy demands the question.

usually i read and pronounce alone iny room.


cheers!

Malcolm wrote:
Silent reading is relatively modern phenomena.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 1:27 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
As I said, his defense of them was garbled. His approach too would simply increase police militarization.

Grigoris said:
Jocko is a hyper-masculine, might-is-right, you-against-the-rest-of-the-world meathead that thinks that Navy Seal Training is the height of culture.  Rogan is a steroid-addicted pothead, ex-UFC announcer, that gets the majority of the information for his podcasts from Google searches.

You would have to be seriously deluded to expect to get nuanced and intelligent analysis from the meeting of those two minds.

You would be better off looking to Jordan Peterson for life coaching tips, and that says a lot.

Malcolm wrote:
I never watch Joe Rogan. Never heard of the other guy until that video.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 12:18 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I have no words:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 19th, 2020 at 12:11 AM
Title: Re: A Fundamental Practice?
Content:



cloudburst said:
From the conventional point of view, it is appropriate to say that the meditative equipoise of superiors takes emptiness as an object, at least according to Gelugpas and Nyingmapas.

Malcolm wrote:
Which Nyingmapa?

cloudburst said:
Patrul, Mipham

Malcolm wrote:
Source?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Queequeg said:
I'm not entirely on board with Willink's arguments...

Malcolm wrote:
He lost me at his garbled attempt to defend chokeholds.

PeterC said:
I would trust him to apply them safely as he has a lifetime of training and a black belt in jujitsu.  But that’s very different from saying you could safely train every policeman in the country to apply them just as safely.  And applied incorrectly they will lead to brain damage and death.

Malcolm wrote:
As I said, his defense of them was garbled. His approach too would simply increase police militarization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 10:30 PM
Title: Re: Murdoch on 2020 election
Content:
PeterC said:
It's really simple. Biden could be a geriatric monkey with dementia, but he'd still have a less corrupt and more effective administration than Trump...Unfortunately we will have to keep reminding people of that right up to the day itself.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 10:29 PM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga
Content:



Johnny Dangerous said:
Lungsang is like # 3 or 4 in the sequence on the dvd, if I recall. This is why I am asking, can one just do the Lunsang...

Malcolm wrote:
The eight movements can be practiced by themselves. In fact, Fabio has said many times, the eight movements and prāṇayāma are all one needs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 10:24 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Queequeg said:
I'm not entirely on board with Willink's arguments...

Malcolm wrote:
He lost me at his garbled attempt to defend chokeholds.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 10:23 PM
Title: Re: A Fundamental Practice?
Content:


Queequeg said:
Is it really meditation on emptiness though? I stand by my comments about making emptiness an object is mistaken and impossible.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a common criticism of the Gelugpa approach from Sakyapas, Kagyupas, and Nyingmapas.

cloudburst said:
From the conventional point of view, it is appropriate to say that the meditative equipoise of superiors takes emptiness as an object, at least according to Gelugpas and Nyingmapas.

Malcolm wrote:
Which Nyingmapa?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 10:16 PM
Title: Re: The Wire and other TV/Movies - From After the Protests
Content:
tobes said:
The Wire is so good.It just completely nails so much, so well.

Although interestingly I read a (minor) critique by David Harvey who did a lot of his political-anthropological work in Baltimore whilst also being involved in various political projects. His critique was: things did get better (through action). i.e. The Wire is a touch too pessimistic about the possibility of progress.

Malcolm wrote:
The pessimism of The Wire is justified. Baltimore is still a mess.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 5:38 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 4:16 AM
Title: Re: Interview with Co-Founder of Esalen
Content:
Wayfarer said:
There’s nothing in the coverage I’ve read about Esalen being sold, although there’s plenty of stories about it catering to the Silicon Valley technorati.

I’ve only ever read a couple of articles by Jeffrey Kipal. Information about his book on Esalen is https://www.google.com/search?q=esalen+america+and+the+religion+of+no+religion&rlz=1C9BKJA_enAU721AU730&oq=religion+of+no+religion+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l2.5816j0j7&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8.

Malcolm wrote:
I was misinformed. It was not sold, but in 2017 they hired a new executive director, who changed their direction.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: Pilgrimage to Bodhgaya
Content:
avatamsaka3 said:
OK, thanks.

Malcolm wrote:
Tibetans lost track of Bodhgaya after the 13th century, and after some time, until the late nineteenth century, were making pilgrimages to places in Assam that they {erroneously) identified as Magadha. Toni Huber has written an entire book on this subject.

Bodhgaya was completely lost to all Buddhists, other than the Burmese, until it was "rediscovered" in the late 19th century. After that, Tibetans began to visit the site.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 1:01 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Queequeg said:
Anyway, bringing this back to the discussion above - I think there's more to the whole Cop show entertainment. Its cops, but its also robbers - cops and robbers, good guys and bad guys.

Malcolm wrote:
I got busted once for tagging. The cop who arrested us then went into a long spiel about how, when he was a kid, he used to be a numbers runner in the South End of Boston.

Then of course, in Northampton, MA, in 1977, the police were breaking into stores and answering their own calls.

Cops and robbers indeed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 12:24 AM
Title: Re: A Fundamental Practice?
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
This is a common criticism of the Gelugpa approach from Sakyapas, Kagyupas, and Nyingmapas.

Queequeg said:
Oh. I didn't mean to step into that. LOL

Ayu said:
And I didn't know about that. I thought 'Now I say something nobody can argue.'
Well, that's how things are running here.

For me, meditating on emptiness doesn't feel to be impossible.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, that is what polemical debate is for: questioning our assumptions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 18th, 2020 at 12:00 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:



tkp67 said:
Collective, cooperative ignorance driven by the desire known as greed starring as the man behind the curtain and Trump chooses to be star of the show.

The lack of shame is not comprehensible for me on a personal level. I can understand desire for power, wealth and even the greed. The psychopathic capacity to not give !$*# is beyond me.

Thankfully.

Malcolm wrote:
It was a fluke. The man only won by 77k votes, and would not have won if not for Comey.

tkp67 said:
TBH I think it was a perfect storm of voter apathy and manipulation enabled by real time connectivity. The latter is exponentially more entrenched into our beings, senses and all as time passes.

Facebook isn't even 20 years old yet.

Remember military put most tech on the map years after it discovered it so there is a segment of society that is well poised to exploit changes for geopolitical motivations.

Everything is happening so fast but seems so natural, quite intoxicating to many.

Malcolm wrote:
Comey. If that man had not done his October Surprise, well, HRC would be looking at her second term in a landslide.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 11:59 PM
Title: Re: Murdoch on 2020 election
Content:



Dan74 said:
No, I couldn't bring myself to vote for him, had I been a US citizen. As to what is the lesser evil in the long term, who can tell...

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a lesser evil sort of thing. Biden will have to cope with a energized left and a pissed-off right (but when is the right anything but pissed off?). If the polls are to be trusted (and these days, that is a huge IF), we are looking at a Dem full house. Biden could go down as a generational president, like FDR, etc., but only if he thinks about the post-millenial generation and the future, given the amount of problems we have in the world today generated by the rampant environmental destruction from capitalism.

Dan74 said:
Every now and then, a leader offers surprises (think Gorbachev). Is Joe Biden such a leader? One can only hope..

Malcolm wrote:
I have no idea, and less expectation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 11:54 PM
Title: Re: Genealogy of Ngondro
Content:



Crazywisdom said:
Says who?

Malcolm wrote:
The Indian commentaries on the sadhanas that derive from that class of tantras, Guhyasamaja, etc. Then of course there are Dzogchen tantras like the Klong gsal tantra, which has entire chapters on the separate ngondro practices, refuge through guru yoga, and beyond.

Crazywisdom said:
IIRC Kalachakra discusses these preliminaries as well.

Malcolm wrote:
Most certainly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 11:07 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Queequeg said:
Drug addiction would need to then be treated as a medical condition.

Malcolm wrote:
There will always be a portion of the population that prefers to be medicated, self and otherwise. Much of the problem is that we have super-opiates like fentanyl, and the even stronger carfentinil, which are sold as junk or mixed with it, causing a lot of deaths. Heroin addiction by itself is a very manageable, as long as dope is easy to get and not too expensive. In fact, the withdrawals symptoms of heroin never killed anyone, unlike alcohol detox, barbiturate withdrawal, etc.

Cocaine is also super-bad news, as is meth, but efforts to curb these drugs clearly are not working. So, decriminalize them too.

Then there is the Marijuana maintenance plan for alcoholics...

And to the person who will object that this is a Buddhist website and what about the fifth precept...we are not necessarily talking about Buddhists here, and even that is flexible. No one is required to follow the fifth precept.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 10:58 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:



tkp67 said:
IMHO reality tv "stuck" and became a very attractive model for producers because no writers, no actors, no unions, etc means far lower costs.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and they led to Donald Trump.

tkp67 said:
Collective, cooperative ignorance driven by the desire known as greed starring as the man behind the curtain and Trump chooses to be star of the show.

The lack of shame is not comprehensible for me on a personal level. I can understand desire for power, wealth and even the greed. The psychopathic capacity to not give !$*# is beyond me.

Thankfully.

Malcolm wrote:
It was a fluke. The man only won by 77k votes, and would not have won if not for Comey.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:


Norwegian said:
The system needs to change in the US, raise the level of qualification, change their tasks, let them actually embody the "protect and serve" ideal, instead of being the opposite.

Malcolm wrote:
"Protect and serve" never meant the community. It instead has always meant protect and serve capitalist interests.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 10:47 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
You might change your mind if you watched it. But it is true that’s police shows are the most popular shows in US.


Sādhaka said:
Like I said earlier in this thread, I’ve no idea if this is whole thing is an setup or not; but I could never stand all those cop, hospital, & crime shows on tv all the time. I always saw them as the epitome of sheeple entertainment.

tkp67 said:
IMHO reality tv "stuck" and became a very attractive model for producers because no writers, no actors, no unions, etc means far lower costs.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and they led to Donald Trump.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 10:46 PM
Title: Re: A Fundamental Practice?
Content:
Ayu said:
Meditation on emptiness is practiced in Vajrayana.

Queequeg said:
Is it really meditation on emptiness though? I stand by my comments about making emptiness an object is mistaken and impossible.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a common criticism of the Gelugpa approach from Sakyapas, Kagyupas, and Nyingmapas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 10:36 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
PeterC said:
If you want to do a procedural / situational drama, it's a convenient setting. What's a bit annoying is how it creates a public mythology of What Police Do which is completely detached from what they *actually* do.  The Wire was realistic in that it focused on the incompetence and politics in the police. Rarely do you see television focusing on the other unpleasant aspects of it.

Queequeg said:
Well, real cop work doesn't make for such great drama.

Malcolm wrote:
The other problem is that police departments regularly exclude people who are intelligent, because they are afraid intelligent people will not like the boredom of being a patrolman. There was a case in Boston where a guy was basically refused a job with the Boston Police department because his scores were too high and he did too well at police academy.

Everyone I know from high school who became a cop was either a bully or a quiet sociopath.

Which brings up another point -- psych evaluations and epidemiological studies on police violence as well as gun violence in general—— both of which the CDC (now being run by a quack) is forbidden by law from studying.

And weed, got to stop arresting black and brown people for weed-- need to legalize it, and decriminalize all drugs. The militarization of the police is directly linked to war on drugs, which we never were going to win (which everyone always knew).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 10:16 PM
Title: Re: Murdoch on 2020 election
Content:
Dan74 said:
To a lot of Trump supporters, he was the revolution. If he stays on, more and more of them will realise that it has been one giant confidence trick and the Washington Swamp has simply been rebranded as Trump Wetlands. If he loses, they will energise and against the lacklustre Biden presidency, deliver someone actually dangerous, a true fascist, rather than simply an entitled old narcissist with an attention span of a goldfish and enough street-smarts to ride the fascist wave into office.

Malcolm wrote:
Still not a good reason to vote for four more years of total chaos.

Dan74 said:
No, I couldn't bring myself to vote for him, had I been a US citizen. As to what is the lesser evil in the long term, who can tell...

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a lesser evil sort of thing. Biden will have to cope with a energized left and a pissed-off right (but when is the right anything but pissed off?). If the polls are to be trusted (and these days, that is a huge IF), we are looking at a Dem full house. Biden could go down as a generational president, like FDR, etc., but only if he thinks about the post-millenial generation and the future, given the amount of problems we have in the world today generated by the rampant environmental destruction from capitalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 9:02 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Grigoris said:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/15/dont-listen-to-fox-heres-whats-really-going-on-in-seattles-protest-zone-321507?fbclid=IwAR3XUrRbzO8SzMFr2PFXsiMirMi6D9nJYhNPsXhizprzyRTiqw1vXVmF5MI
Don’t Listen to Fox. Here’s What’s Really Going On in Seattle’s Protest Zone.
What’s happening in these four blocks that shook the world is indeed an occupation, but it looks nothing like the “totalitarian takeover” touted on the conservative network.

Malcolm wrote:
Nope, it looks like Occupy Wallsteet, only bigger.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 8:59 PM
Title: Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?
Content:
Adamantine said:
I’d like to add that two Dudjom lineage holders living in the West who are accessible and have the full capacity for sharing these transmissions and melodies that I am aware of are Khandro Kunzang Dechen Chodron based in the USA and Lama Tenzin Samphel based in France.

Malcolm wrote:
You forgot Sangye Khandro.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 8:56 PM
Title: Re: Murdoch on 2020 election
Content:
Dan74 said:
To a lot of Trump supporters, he was the revolution. If he stays on, more and more of them will realise that it has been one giant confidence trick and the Washington Swamp has simply been rebranded as Trump Wetlands. If he loses, they will energise and against the lacklustre Biden presidency, deliver someone actually dangerous, a true fascist, rather than simply an entitled old narcissist with an attention span of a goldfish and enough street-smarts to ride the fascist wave into office.

Malcolm wrote:
Still not a good reason to vote for four more years of total chaos.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 9:03 AM
Title: Re: Murdoch on 2020 election
Content:
Nemo said:
Yay Team Biden. You get a bag of President instead of a flaming bag of President.

Just have the damn revolution already. It's not like you live in a democracy. Dems treat you like hostages. You are in an abusive relationship. Take back the power and make some demands. 2 weeks of rioting did more than voting Democrat for 20 years.

Malcolm wrote:
that kind of revolution will benefit the fascists.

Nemo said:
Not revolting helps them as well. The status quo created Trump. If you don't revolt soon it will be too late.

Malcolm wrote:
Biden will be elected, America will go back to sleep.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 5:09 AM
Title: Re: Murdoch on 2020 election
Content:
Nemo said:
Yay Team Biden. You get a bag of President instead of a flaming bag of President.

Just have the damn revolution already. It's not like you live in a democracy. Dems treat you like hostages. You are in an abusive relationship. Take back the power and make some demands. 2 weeks of rioting did more than voting Democrat for 20 years.

Malcolm wrote:
that kind of revolution will benefit the fascists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 3:50 AM
Title: Re: Repairing 5 lay vows
Content:
Toenail said:
Thank you.

Did i understood correctly, one has to take all of the upasaka vows in order to take the higher sets of vows?

Malcolm wrote:
well, you do in the beginning of and empowerment, but after receiving, you decide which one's you can keep.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: Repairing 5 lay vows
Content:
Toenail said:
Is there a time expiration or so to restore them? Once one is broken, just that one is lost, no? In order to take Bodhisattva Vows and Tantric vows, does one have to take all of the 5 lay vows first or are some like 1 or 2 enough? If one has taken all of them before, is it possible to give one of them back?

Malcolm wrote:
In order to receive the higher vows, the lower vows are required. But after being taken, one set of vows can be broken, without it necessarily impacting the others, apart from aspirational bodhicitta. If that is lost, everything is lost.

As far as the five upasaka vows go, one can choose to follow whichever vow one feels one can hold, beginning with not killing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 2:57 AM
Title: Re: Genealogy of Ngondro
Content:
Donny said:
Does anyone has some tips on teachings an/or historical/scholary works that deal with of the genealogy of the four preliminary practices that are now used in most itbetan lineages?

What was the cultural context? How were students/practitioners preparing for their pracitce befor ngondro got established? How did they get codified etc.?

Any tip is appreciated

Malcolm wrote:
Ngondro comes from India. In India, anuttarayoga tantra ngondro consisted principally of Vajrasattva, Mandala offerings, and Guru Yoga, and the latter was generally incorporated into one's daily sadhana.

Crazywisdom said:
Says who?

Malcolm wrote:
The Indian commentaries on the sadhanas that derive from that class of tantras, Guhyasamaja, etc. Then of course there are Dzogchen tantras like the Klong gsal tantra, which has entire chapters on the separate ngondro practices, refuge through guru yoga, and beyond.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: Repairing 5 lay vows
Content:
Toenail said:
Once one has broken a lay vow, is it lost forever in this life or can it be restored? I don't mean damaged, I mean broken.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it can be restored through the simple act of confession. This is what the Sūtra of Three Heaps is four. If someone is a Vajrayāna practitioner, the refuge vows are restored by reciting the seven limb prayer.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 2:19 AM
Title: Re: Is this an accurate summation of tantra?
Content:
climb-up said:
Archetypes and deities maybe part of the process, but you can use those things in ritual and meditation and not have it be tantra.

I don’t know what folks will think, but my working definition is that tantra is a technology of guruyoga, meant to achieve the state of the guru (or, more properly, to realize that our nature is not in any way different from the guru, who’s nature is not in anyway different from the Buddhas of the three times).

Any practice we do must be transmitted to us, otherwise whatever we’re doing, it isn’t tantra.
Any deity that we practice or accomplish might involve some archetypal energies and relative siddhis and all sorts of cool sh!t, but the essence of deityyoga is not to beomce the deity or contact it’s powers, but to do the deity practice given by the Lama to recognize that the deity is a representation of our own true nature from the beginning.

...I don’t think any of this is wrong, but I don’t know what folks will think of it as a definition of what tantra “is.”

But, even if my definition is not great; tantra is far more than just deity yoga. There are many practices that do not fall under the banner of deity yoga, even though of course that’s big.

Malcolm wrote:
All of these things, creation, completion, guru yoga, etc., fall under the heading of the method part of tantra. The definition provided above is comprehensive and leaves nothing out, since it concisely covers the basis, the path, and the result.

climb-up said:
Ah, I see. I was thinking only in terms of the practice and methods, good point.
I think your definition above of tantra is continuum is probably completely encompassing, but it seems like the title of traditional text wherein those of highest capacity can read it and fully understand the meaning by that alone, but those of us with less capacity need a little more elaboration and explication.
EDIT: I had missed your guhyasamaja quote, sorry. That is more comprehensive, but still needs clarification (IMO) for those of us with lesser capacities.

Malcolm wrote:
Simply put, "tantra" refers to the nature of the mind, the methods we employ to discover it, and the result of putting those methods into practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 1:09 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/06/american-indian-movement-patrol-defund-police-minneapolis/

Unknown said:
Late one night at the end of May, as spray paint, fires, and looting reigned across Minneapolis, an Indigenous hip-hop artist named Tall Paul was roving the streets in a truck, looking for looters and arsonists. “It looked like that movie The Purge,” he says. “It was lawless.” Days before, Paul had joined the American Indian Movement Patrol, a group of Native Americans volunteering to maintain neighborhood safety and protect key buildings from destruction amid the rebellion.

Paul and the other volunteers on shift were on their way to check on the offices of the Leech Lake Band of Ojibwe when they saw four white teenagers looting a nearby liquor store. They stopped their truck and three of the teens fled, while Paul’s group caught up with the fourth. Soon his buddies returned, and all were made to lie on the ground so they couldn’t run away, then give their names and wait for a parent to come pick them up. The teens had driven 90 miles from suburban Wisconsin to take advantage of the chaos.

...

Though the current political moment focuses on violence against Black communities, police killings of Natives have long gone overlooked, in part because some departments don’t identify or track Indigenous victims. A CNN analysis of data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Native Americans were slightly more likely than Black people to die at the hands of law enforcement between 1999 and 2015, though the rates are often neck-and-neck—and deeply intertwined.

In 2011, Derek Chauvin, the officer who killed George Floyd, was involved in the shooting of an Alaska Native named Leroy Martinez. (A witness claimed Martinez had surrendered his gun and had his hands in the air when he was shot.) Recognizing their common experience of police brutality, Native youth stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Black protesters throughout this year’s Minneapolis uprising.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: Is this an accurate summation of tantra?
Content:
climb-up said:
Archetypes and deities maybe part of the process, but you can use those things in ritual and meditation and not have it be tantra.

I don’t know what folks will think, but my working definition is that tantra is a technology of guruyoga, meant to achieve the state of the guru (or, more properly, to realize that our nature is not in any way different from the guru, who’s nature is not in anyway different from the Buddhas of the three times).

Any practice we do must be transmitted to us, otherwise whatever we’re doing, it isn’t tantra.
Any deity that we practice or accomplish might involve some archetypal energies and relative siddhis and all sorts of cool sh!t, but the essence of deityyoga is not to beomce the deity or contact it’s powers, but to do the deity practice given by the Lama to recognize that the deity is a representation of our own true nature from the beginning.

...I don’t think any of this is wrong, but I don’t know what folks will think of it as a definition of what tantra “is.”

But, even if my definition is not great; tantra is far more than just deity yoga. There are many practices that do not fall under the banner of deity yoga, even though of course that’s big.

Malcolm wrote:
All of these things, creation, completion, guru yoga, etc., fall under the heading of the method part of tantra. The definition provided above is comprehensive and leaves nothing out, since it concisely covers the basis, the path, and the result.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 17th, 2020 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: Gorsuch revisited
Content:
Queequeg said:
I didn't mean just the Supreme Court - I was referring to the entire Federal Court System.

Along with the rest of the federal government, we will miss it when it is irreparably hobbled.

But yes, the common law system in general is also a great human achievement. It will likely survive the disintegration of the the American federal system.

Malcolm wrote:
Providing people can still read...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 16th, 2020 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: Leaving Buddhism
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
As they say, there are “84,000 paths”. There are different schools and traditions, and ultimately it comes down to each individual.

Malcolm wrote:
This simply means that Vinaya has 21,000 teachings as an antidote to desire, Sūtra has 21,000 teachings as an antidote to anger, Abhidharma has 21,000 teachings as an antidote to ignorance, and there are an additional 21,000 teachings of mixed nature as an antidote to mixed afflictions.

The various Buddhist schools and traditions within Buddhism, apart from ordination lineages, are essentially Abhidharma schools. Also Secret Mantra in general is included in Abhidharma.

This expression does not include nonbuddhist paths and traditions, through many people mistaken think so. All the nonbuddhist schools are included in eternalism and annihilationism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 16th, 2020 at 10:22 PM
Title: Re: Genealogy of Ngondro
Content:
Donny said:
Does anyone has some tips on teachings an/or historical/scholary works that deal with of the genealogy of the four preliminary practices that are now used in most itbetan lineages?

What was the cultural context? How were students/practitioners preparing for their pracitce befor ngondro got established? How did they get codified etc.?

Any tip is appreciated

Malcolm wrote:
Ngondro comes from India. In India, anuttarayoga tantra ngondro consisted principally of Vajrasattva, Mandala offerings, and Guru Yoga, and the latter was generally incorporated into one's daily sadhana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 16th, 2020 at 10:18 PM
Title: Re: Murdoch on 2020 election
Content:
Knotty Veneer said:
Do you think Fox and WSJ will start being more critical of Trump if it looks like he's going to lose.

BTW, I hear a lot of people saying that they think he's done for this time. I wish I had their confidence. Trump will pull every dirty trick he can to rig this election if he thinks he's in trouble. Without Murdoch though, he'll be seriously hampered.

Johnny Dangerous said:
The fact that a moldy doily will the be the Democratic candidate doesn't help much either.

Malcolm wrote:
Hey, we are all voting the the moldy doily. Otherwise...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 16th, 2020 at 5:24 AM
Title: Re: Is this an accurate summation of tantra?
Content:
Yeshe Dorje said:
I've noticed that some people follow a non-Buddhist Weltanschauung and try to fit their Buddhist practise into that. Not saying this is the case here, just something I've observed. It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately, because it rubs me the wrong way, rightly or wrongly, and I am not sure why exactly.

Malcolm wrote:
He has from time to time expressed an interest in, perhaps even an affiliation with, western Magick. I know even less about Magick than I do about Buddhism, nevertheless I suspect he may be conflating aspects of the two practices. In fact he gave me the definition in question when I asked him whether, if he was involved with Magick, he had considered how this might relate to his refuge commitments.  He seemed to be unaware of what these commitments even entailed. My hope is that he may come across this thread and consider resetting his practice (There is no chance he would listen to me directly).
[/quote]

We cannot condition others. So, let it go.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 16th, 2020 at 12:30 AM
Title: Re: Hope for attainment in this life.what are my options?
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
Since we are turning into "realization collectors forum" I would like add that I do have a collection and for sure it is bigger than yours.

Now siddhi collections aside. I would suggest the use of "signs" of practice rather than "realizations". Why? Because how many of us have actually gone to retreats for months/years and did our best to truly "realize" a practice (whatever that means)? However, signs just like smoke appear when there is the source. And there are many of those and the most profound ones are not flying or being really flexible. It is just that we are less annoying.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, on internet forums, mist is frequently misidentified as smoke, meaning there is no fire behind that hill. You know what they say, empty buckets make the most noise.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 16th, 2020 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: Hope for attainment in this life.what are my options?
Content:
Simon E. said:
Alas Malcolm all true..even down to the socks and sandals. Well during lockdown anyway....

Malcolm wrote:
Well, I will call your no realization and and raise you negative realization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 16th, 2020 at 12:26 AM
Title: Re: Is this an accurate summation of tantra?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
The standard definition provided by everyone:

Guhyasamāja Uttaratantra states:

"A tantra is a ‘continuum,’
that continuum changes into three aspects;
distinguished by basis,
its nature and inalienability.
The aspect of nature is the cause,
the basis is “method”,
likewise, inalienability is the result;
these three summarize the meaning of tantra."

Lingpupa said:
But there is a difficulty here, surely - a "missing piece" if you will. Not to dispute your definition, of course, but definitions rarely, if ever, encompass the full meaning of a term, especially not the connotations of a richly loaded, culturally significant term. As a translator, you will of course know that only too well. And this (highly didactic) definition does not remotely touch on many of the topics raised by the word "tantra", does it?

Malcolm wrote:
It covers everything relevant to a discussion of Buddhist tantra. This is the reason why virtually all Indian and Tibetan authors use this verse as their launching point for a discussion of what "tantra" means.

So, when the inquirer asks, well, what does "continuum" mean here, it means that a "tantra" encompasses the basis, the path, and the result predicated on one's person's continuum, the nature of their mind. Then there are some books that describe these three things.

Lingpupa said:
How does your definition help them? How does it help them distinguish between art or liturgy that is more or less tantric and loosely similar artefacts that are not? How does it help them distinguish between fake, rip-off "tantra" (see most of what you'll find under that search) and genuine tantra such as you or I may perhaps know a little of?

Malcolm wrote:
It helps them to understand that, from a Buddhist perspective, perhaps the popularized notion of Tantra is not an accurate portrayal of the subject. I generally find that the most straightforward explanations are the most useful for dispelling misconceptions people may hold. Hence my answer.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 11:29 PM
Title: Re: Hope for attainment in this life.what are my options?
Content:
Simon E. said:
It really is extraordinary.
Someone on the forum says that they have no realisations..me for example. And immediately this is viewed with suspicion. It must be a ploy, or a bid for attention or an inverse statement of superiority (?!). Or it means that I am not really a practitioner.

Malcolm wrote:
I mean, it is so obvious that you are lying, trying to egotistically conceal your realization by virtue signaling how much of a lowly schmuck you are. I mean, it does not take much internet clairvoyance at all to see that you, an advanced practitioner, have a vested interest in concealing your qualities, because you have egotistical investment in faux humility.



Simon E. said:
(Now the latter might be true..)
The fact that I have said that I do not seek realisations is simply brushed aside.
The fact that I see discussion of attainment as examples of what my first teacher called spiritual materialism is counted as naught.
I can only think that idea of working for a lifetime to simply integrate what has been given freely, with no interest in Siddhis or displays is somehow threatening to some people. Why that should be I have no idea.

Malcolm wrote:
Because this just the sort of virtue signaling all advanced (read old as f--k) Buddhist practitioners on somewhat obsolete Buddhism internet forums do, not to mention you are probably a pinko, a social justice warrior, and wear socks with your sandals (hippie ).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 11:23 PM
Title: Re: Is this an accurate summation of tantra?
Content:
Lingpupa said:
Malcolm's comment may not be "incorrect", but clearly ignores all the connotations that must be considered it you want any appreciation of what tantra means in the Buddhist context, or indeed in almost any context.

Malcolm wrote:
The standard definition provided by everyone:

Guhyasamāja Uttaratantra states:

"A tantra is a ‘continuum,’
that continuum changes into three aspects;
distinguished by basis,
its nature and inalienability.
The aspect of nature is the cause,
the basis is “method”,
likewise, inalienability is the result;
these three summarize the meaning of tantra."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 11:14 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Grigoris said:
https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/5dzg7k/moria-refugee-camp-violence-attacks?fbclid=IwAR3uqxtD0qfugp2LxlQinSw4_FeTkCEUQubHVl7sZJDTT8SHMT_oNqLVqkA
BLM supporter speaks out after carrying counter-protester to safety
Photo of Patrick Hutchinson coming to the man’s aid went viral after Saturday’s protests
2183.jpg

Fa Dao said:
Nice!!  This is the direction we all need to be focusing on..

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, in general it is usually the left coming to the aid of right wing dickheads when they are in danger of having their asses kicked. The reverse never happens.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 11:13 PM
Title: Re: Yumka Dechen Gyalmo
Content:
Lhasa said:
Is she one of the 21 Taras?

Malcolm wrote:
No. She is Yeshe Tsogyal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 8:26 PM
Title: Re: Zen’s stand regarding ‘The Absolute’
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
"The absolute" is likely "the ultimate" referring to "the ultimate truth," likely according to Venerable Nāgārjuna, but also likely according to whichever other "ultimate truth" they consider the "ultimate" versus the conventional.

PeterC said:
So eight pages into the discussion, we're at the stage of saying what the main object of the discussion likely refers to

Malcolm wrote:
Typical Dharmawheel.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 8:24 PM
Title: Re: Interview with Co-Founder of Esalen
Content:



PeterC said:
I hear that these days they serve avocado on organic sourdough toast to burnt-out venture capitalists and "entrepreneurs".

Malcolm wrote:
It was shut down after the landslides that cutoff Big Sur for a year, and sold to a tech overlord, who turned it into a business retreat for Silicon Valley types.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 8:15 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:


White Sakura said:
So I missunderstood you. I thought you wanted to say you are Mr. Dowman. I recieved "only" Mahamudra teachings from a high Dzogchen and Mahamudra Master.

Malcolm wrote:
Then you have no business reading dzogchen books, and your opinions don’t matter at all.

Crazywisdom said:
Didnt you say anyone buy your books?

Malcolm wrote:
No, actually, they all have a disclaimer in the forward specifying who those translations for. I can not prevent anyone from buying them, but people who have not received dzogchen transmission and instruction should not read them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 5:44 AM
Title: Re: Trouble with visualization and recitation at same time
Content:
Firesign90 said:
Hello. I am new to Buddhism in practice. I try to visualize  white light radiating from the heart center or while practicing White Tara where wisdom rainbow light rays continuously stream out from her heart and then light rays return back to Whit Tara who blesses you. I also either can only focus on the recitations or the visualizations, not both. I also cannot visualize myself , if that makes sense.

I just am at a standstill and cannot get very far with the visualizations. Any tips to help me with this would be very appreciated. Thank you.

Malcolm wrote:
You need to discuss this with your teacher.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 5:33 AM
Title: Re: Is this an accurate summation of tantra?
Content:
Yeshe Dorje said:
I was recently told that
'Tantra is all about using a variety of deity forms, mostly from Hinduism, in order to embody their archetypes'

I would be grateful if some of you would evaluate this statement for me. There are very few Buddhists where I live so I am happy to be able to engage with them when I can. However I have recently become unsure about the level of understanding of the person that made the statement. Help in evaluating the statement will hopefully give me some clarity on the ways in which I engage with him.
Thank you very much

Malcolm wrote:
Well, this is totally wrong. Tantra just means “continuum.” When applied to a book, it means something “manual.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 4:52 AM
Title: Re: My Spiritual Pet Peeve
Content:
Simon E. said:
The whole Eckhart Tolle industry grinds my gears a little.

Malcolm wrote:
See above.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 4:08 AM
Title: Re: My Spiritual Pet Peeve
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
Do you have spiritual pet peeves?

Malcolm wrote:
Religion in general. Biggest con in history, run by shameless grifters.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 3:28 AM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:


White Sakura said:
But I do not agree regarding the word: "gnosis".

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, we heard you the first time.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 2:28 AM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
I do not use gnosis for rig pa/vidya. Question, have you actually received dzogchen teachings from anyone?

White Sakura said:
So I missunderstood you. I thought you wanted to say you are Mr. Dowman. I recieved "only" Mahamudra teachings from a high Dzogchen and Mahamudra Master.

Malcolm wrote:
Then you have no business reading dzogchen books, and your opinions don’t matter at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 1:55 AM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
White Sakura said:
Keith Dowman, by the way, uses "gnosis" for Rigpa...

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and I back translate the term to vidya.


White Sakura said:
And... is it ok for you if I have other opinions than you even if I am nobody? And honestly tell you that.. the translation of the eye of the Storm is very helpful even if I can only read the further translation to German.
But that WORD...

And now: You use it for Rigpa and for Yeshe/Jnana....

Malcolm wrote:
I do not use gnosis for rig pa/vidya. Question, have you actually received dzogchen teachings from anyone?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 12:57 AM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
White Sakura said:
Keith Dowman, by the way, uses "gnosis" for Rigpa...

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and I back translate the term to vidya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 12:55 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Grigoris said:
I still cannot believe you went from Obama to Trump.

Malcolm wrote:
Me either, but in retrospect it laid to rest the fantasy our country had resolved its race issues.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 12:53 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Grigoris said:
But all of them heroes.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, other than Reno 911.

Grigoris said:
Even shows about "bad" cops is propaganda in support of cops.

"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about." Oscar Wilde

Malcolm wrote:
You might change your mind if you watched it. But it is true that’s police shows are the most popular shows in US.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 15th, 2020 at 12:11 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Grigoris said:
But all of them heroes.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, other than Reno 911.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 14th, 2020 at 7:21 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Also our economic disenfranchisement of poor communities (and especially Black and brown ones, but all poor communities really) actually perpetuates some of the the problems police most commonly show up for, and of course their inappropriateness to the job usually makes said problems worse, not better.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup. Just look at the show Cops.

Johnny Dangerous said:
That show is the lowest of the low.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/missing-richard-simmons/running-from-cops-headlong-season-3

This is a whole podcast series on it, it's excellent.

Malcolm wrote:
Good thing that show was just cancelled.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 14th, 2020 at 7:02 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Also our economic disenfranchisement of poor communities (and especially Black and brown ones, but all poor communities really) actually perpetuates some of the the problems police most commonly show up for, and of course their inappropriateness to the job usually makes said problems worse, not better.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup. Just look at the show Cops.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 14th, 2020 at 6:55 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
If we end the war on drugs it will drastically reduce the need for police presence across the board. That and greatly increasing the public funding for social services and programs would make police work a specialized function.

One thing that comes up for me here: People don't realize (probably due to media, among other things) that even in America,  random violent crime is just not as common as it seems. On the other hand, things like domestic violence and drug overdose are giant problems, for which police have no solution at all, but often end up being the first line of response for.

Not holding my breath on changes, but at least now there is more awareness.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 14th, 2020 at 5:09 AM
Title: Re: CHAZ - Seattle's Free Cap Hill movement, city, nation?
Content:



Gyurme Kundrol said:
Yes those images are absurd. They are based on an unedited photo from when CHAZ first started, his face mask was not green before the edit IIRC.

Heres a more recent unedited one: https://upnewsinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/1591908434_41_Trump-says-domestic-terrorists-have-taken-over-Seattle-and-demands.jpg

You also know absolutely nothing about me or my political views, so stop making assumptions. I dont watch Fox News at all, and think most media in general is terrible. Im 100% in support of the protests, BLM, and am a progressive democrat who has always voted blue.

Malcolm wrote:
Leftist boogaloo bois in that photo. Not terribly reassuring.

Gyurme Kundrol said:
I think the boogaloo stuff is stupid.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 14th, 2020 at 4:47 AM
Title: Re: CHAZ - Seattle's Free Cap Hill movement, city, nation?
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Oh and BTW:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/

Don’t talk your silly stuff about Seattle when ya don’t even live near, and your only information source is Fox News.

Gyurme Kundrol said:
Yes those images are absurd. They are based on an unedited photo from when CHAZ first started, his face mask was not green before the edit IIRC.

Heres a more recent unedited one: https://upnewsinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/1591908434_41_Trump-says-domestic-terrorists-have-taken-over-Seattle-and-demands.jpg

You also know absolutely nothing about me or my political views, so stop making assumptions. I dont watch Fox News at all, and think most media in general is terrible. Im 100% in support of the protests, BLM, and am a progressive democrat who has always voted blue.

Malcolm wrote:
Leftist boogaloo bois in that photo. Not terribly reassuring.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 14th, 2020 at 4:46 AM
Title: Re: CHAZ - Seattle's Free Cap Hill movement, city, nation?
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Oh and BTW:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/

Don’t talk your silly stuff about Seattle when ya don’t even live near, and your only information source is Fox News.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, are we surprised? This is what fascists do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 14th, 2020 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: CHAZ - Seattle's Free Cap Hill movement, city, nation?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No one needs an semi-auto AR 15, not the police, not civilians. No one. The number of successful defenses against assailants with a personal weapon is quite low, while the number of people convicted of assault with deadly weapons and murders are comparatively high.

Gyurme Kundrol said:
True, but if you look at gun stats across the board, rifles are much safer than pistols. 65% of gun deaths are from pistols, only 5-10% from rifles. Most mass shootings also are pistols. Of rifles, the AR15 is actually really far down on the list as many rifle deaths are hunting incidents or the person used a hunting rifle for whatever reason. For a casual gun owner who wants to protect their home, a rifle is a better choice and safer for everyone involved. Contrary to what people say, the actual ballistics of an AR15 vs. a pistol shows the pistols are more deadly, pistols do huge amounts of damage to whoever they hit and are more likely to travel through people/objects/walls and strike innocents. You are also more likely to miss with a pistol. This is due to the effect of high velocity rifle rounds "tumbling" after they hit a target, losing a lot of power and momentum, vs a pistol whose rounds dont have this effect.

Malcolm wrote:
No, you are quite mistaken on this point. 222 rifles, which is effectively what an AR 15s are, have a much heavier charge and slug, and are much more damaging than pistol wounds. Just ask any surgeon who works in an ER. You are not talking to someone ignorant of weapons handling.

It is true that pistols are much less accurate, especially in the hands of people who lack specific firearms training for pistols. Even in the hands of trained law enforcement, pistols are very inaccurate. They have much less powerful rounds and actually do far less damage, according to surgeons.

Gyurme Kundrol said:
On the other hand you can look into incidents where people are for example robbed by 3 or more people at a time, all armed, and successfully defended themselves because they were armed.

Malcolm wrote:
This rarely happens in real life, but in the movies, well, quite a lot.


Gyurme Kundrol said:
Then there are many cases where people were not armed and they are simply executed, and I dont see how its better to be executed than to have a gun and defend yourself. Often these cases of violent robbery are not in the inner city, they are in rural areas where there are less people so nobody is going to hear the commotion or see anything happening.

Malcolm wrote:
Now yer just making shit up.


Gyurme Kundrol said:
I wish we lived in a world where I felt I never would need a gun for anything, but I just cant rationalize it to myself. There are other reasons the AR15 is safer too. For a civilian in a situation like that, you are going to have a HUGE adrenaline dump. Its hard enough to shoot a pistol accurately while calm and focused, its 10x harder when you are scared and violently shaking. A rifle is much more stable in that sense, and the 30 round capacity means you can afford to miss some shots without running out of ammo right away and being gunned down.

Malcolm wrote:
You do realize that these 30 round magazines jam regularly? Especially during a rapid rate of fire?

Gyurme Kundrol said:
Serious question here though: From a Dharma perspective is there a good reason to not be prepared for that possible scenario?

Malcolm wrote:
Rifles, and guns in general, need regular maintenance and cleaning. It’s time consuming, easily neglected. Plus, one needs to spend regular time at a range. Shooting is a skill that needs to be maintained.

AR 15 style rifles are not particularly well made, and are not very accurate in general. They are also of little use in close quarters. Most shootings by civilians happen when people are standing within 25 feet of each other. Even with a rifle, most people miss their targets.

Most people are not capable of shooting another human being unless trained to, or in a state of panic. And panic is the enemy of accurate shooting.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 14th, 2020 at 3:13 AM
Title: Re: CHAZ - Seattle's Free Cap Hill movement, city, nation?
Content:
Grigoris said:
Could be considered an act of self-defence.

If the police have withdrawn, then why should citizens not arm themselves and protect their neighbourhoods?

They have a Right to do so, if I am not mistaken?

Gyurme Kundrol said:
They do. The seething hypocrisy is ironic though. For 20 years pro second amendment people have heard the same rhetoric over and over, that you dont need to carry a gun everywhere, you can just call the police, that nobody needs an AR15. People who are conservative on 2nd amendment rights have repeatedly pointed out that no, the police cant be relied on, its up to you to protect yourself. That actually sometimes an AR15 is precisely what you will need. What do you know, they were actually right!

Malcolm wrote:
No one needs an semi-auto AR 15, not the police, not civilians. No one. The number of successful defenses against assailants with a personal weapon is quite low, while the number of people convicted of assault with deadly weapons and murders are comparatively high.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 14th, 2020 at 1:54 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html

Unknown said:
Congressional Democrats want to make it easier to identify and prosecute police misconduct; Joe Biden wants to give police departments $300 million. But efforts to solve police violence through liberal reforms like these have failed for nearly a century.

Enough. We can’t reform the police. The only way to diminish police violence is to reduce contact between the public and the police.

There is not a single era in United States history in which the police were not a force of violence against black people. Policing in the South emerged from the slave patrols in the 1700 and 1800s that caught and returned runaway slaves. In the North, the first municipal police departments in the mid-1800s helped quash labor strikes and riots against the rich. Everywhere, they have suppressed marginalized populations to protect the status quo.

So when you see a police officer pressing his knee into a black man’s neck until he dies, that’s the logical result of policing in America. When a police officer brutalizes a black person, he is doing what he sees as his job.

Now two weeks of nationwide protests have led some to call for defunding the police, while others argue that doing so would make us less safe.

The first thing to point out is that police officers don’t do what you think they do. They spend most of their time responding to noise complaints, issuing parking and traffic citations, and dealing with other noncriminal issues. We’ve been taught to think they “catch the bad guys; they chase the bank robbers; they find the serial killers,” said Alex Vitale, the coordinator of the Policing and Social Justice Project at Brooklyn College, in an interview with Jacobin. But this is “a big myth,” he said. “The vast majority of police officers make one felony arrest a year. If they make two, they’re cop of the month.”

We can’t simply change their job descriptions to focus on the worst of the worst criminals. That’s not what they are set up to do.

Second, a “safe” world is not one in which the police keep black and other marginalized people in check through threats of arrest, incarceration, violence and death.

I’ve been advocating the abolition of the police for years. Regardless of your view on police power — whether you want to get rid of the police or simply to make them less violent — here’s an immediate demand we can all make: Cut the number of police in half and cut their budget in half. Fewer police officers equals fewer opportunities for them to brutalize and kill people. The idea is gaining traction in Minneapolis, Dallas, Los Angeles and other cities.

History is instructive, not because it offers us a blueprint for how to act in the present but because it can help us ask better questions for the future.

The Lexow Committee undertook the first major investigation into police misconduct in New York City in 1894. At the time, the most common complaint against the police was about “clubbing” — “the routine bludgeoning of citizens by patrolmen armed with nightsticks or blackjacks,” as the historian Marilynn Johnson has written.

The Wickersham Commission, convened to study the criminal justice system and examine the problem of Prohibition enforcement, offered a scathing indictment in 1931, including evidence of brutal interrogation strategies. It put the blame on a lack of professionalism among the police.

After the 1967 urban uprisings, the Kerner Commission found that “police actions were ‘final’ incidents before the outbreak of violence in 12 of the 24 surveyed disorders.” Its report listed a now-familiar set of recommendations, like working to build “community support for law enforcement” and reviewing police operations “in the ghetto, to ensure proper conduct by police officers.”

These commissions didn’t stop the violence; they just served as a kind of counterinsurgent function each time police violence led to protests. Calls for similar reforms were trotted out in response to the brutal police beating of Rodney King in 1991 and the rebellion that followed, and again after the killings of Michael Brown and Eric Garner. The final report of the Obama administration’s President’s Task Force on 21st Century Policing resulted in procedural tweaks like implicit-bias training, police-community listening sessions, slight alterations of use-of-force policies and systems to identify potentially problematic officers early on.

But even a member of the task force, Tracey Meares, noted in 2017, “policing as we know it must be abolished before it can be transformed.”

The philosophy undergirding these reforms is that more rules will mean less violence. But police officers break rules all the time. Look what has happened over the past few weeks — police officers slashing tires, shoving old men on camera, and arresting and injuring journalists and protesters. These officers are not worried about repercussions any more than Daniel Pantaleo, the former New York City police officer whose chokehold led to Eric Garner’s death; he waved to a camera filming the incident. He knew that the police union would back him up and he was right. He stayed on the job for five more years.

Minneapolis had instituted many of these “best practices” but failed to remove Derek Chauvin from the force despite 17 misconduct complaints over nearly two decades, culminating in the entire world watching as he knelt on George Floyd’s neck for almost nine minutes.

Why on earth would we think the same reforms would work now? We need to change our demands. The surest way of reducing police violence is to reduce the power of the police, by cutting budgets and the number of officers.

But don’t get me wrong. We are not abandoning our communities to violence. We don’t want to just close police departments. We want to make them obsolete.

We should redirect the billions that now go to police departments toward providing health care, housing, education and good jobs. If we did this, there would be less need for the police in the first place.

We can build other ways of responding to harms in our society. Trained “community care workers” could do mental-health checks if someone needs help. Towns could use restorative-justice models instead of throwing people in prison.

What about rape? The current approach hasn’t ended it. In fact most rapists never see the inside of a courtroom. Two-thirds of people who experience sexual violence never report it to anyone. Those who file police reports are often dissatisfied with the response. Additionally, police officers themselves commit sexual assault alarmingly often. A study in 2010 found that sexual misconduct was the second most frequently reported form of police misconduct. In 2015, The Buffalo News found that an officer was caught for sexual misconduct every five days.

When people, especially white people, consider a world without the police, they envision a society as violent as our current one, merely without law enforcement — and they shudder. As a society, we have been so indoctrinated with the idea that we solve problems by policing and caging people that many cannot imagine anything other than prisons and the police as solutions to violence and harm.

People like me who want to abolish prisons and police, however, have a vision of a different society, built on cooperation instead of individualism, on mutual aid instead of self-preservation. What would the country look like if it had billions of extra dollars to spend on housing, food and education for all? This change in society wouldn’t happen immediately, but the protests show that many people are ready to embrace a different vision of safety and justice.

When the streets calm and people suggest once again that we hire more black police officers or create more civilian review boards, I hope that we remember all the times those efforts have failed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 14th, 2020 at 1:24 AM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
White Sakura said:
It is a German word! How strange...and:

In French: "la gnose". In Italian: "la gnosi". GNOS.. in all European Languages.

Maybe it is rather a Latin word than an English word which just happens to be the same in German??? Ok you will argue: It just derived from Latin and is now a normal English word and who cares for silly German?
But I feel it as Latin, not as English or German.

Do you all feel it as English? It might be different from my feeling.

And then I think, if it comes from Latin, it must have something to do with Christian Religion.

Malcolm wrote:
Gnosis is an English word. It has nothing to do with “feelings.” Look it up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 14th, 2020 at 12:30 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
tkp67 said:
Dave Chappelle  posted a "comedy" special called 8:46 on youtube.

Pretty frank and poignant talk about how this became the straw that broke the camel's back.



Norwegian said:
Well worth watching.

Grigoris said:
I don't know if anybody could say it better than he does in the video.

Malcolm wrote:
One of the smartest men in America.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 11:51 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Gnosis is indeed an English word.

White Sakura said:
It is also a German word according to online dictionaries. Nevertheless when I read a Buddhist book where it was used, I got, what it meant, after I found out it means "ynana". So it is a German word that I needed a definition for. And needed the word to be translated from German to Sanskrit to understand it.
I understood here in the thread that an English-speaker felt the same.

And just saying, the dictionary gives for the English-term: "gnosis" in German also "Gnosis" and: "Gotteserkenntnis". Gott means God. I really think people feel whatever when they read it. Maybe somethink like: "Knowing god..." If they have read Steiner, they feel it theosophic.....

I do not want to argue with you, I just thought it might be of interest for you. And I would not have written it if an English speaker had not written he thinks it is not an English word.

Malcolm wrote:
Words do not have immutable meanings. It just so happens that gnosis is the closest linguistic cognate to jnana in English.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 11:48 PM
Title: Re: CHAZ - Seattle's Free Cap Hill movement, city, nation?
Content:



Fa Dao said:
Im sorry man but no...there is no police presence whatsoever in the East police precinct or in the area at all, they have renamed the area the "Capital Hill Autonomous Zone ", they have blocked off 7-10 city blocks, and have posted a list of demands...this is WAY beyond a simple protest..

Johnny Dangerous said:
"Protest" does not mean "comfortable thing where no one interrupts your daily life with their grievances".

Right wingers threaten violence and take over public spaces constantly, and stuff that involves far greater direct physical threat.. but I've never seen you post about that, weird.

I am sure there is something to criticize there if you look hard enough and feel like discrediting anything to do with this movement. Me, I'm just happy to see white people and conservatives who have never cared much about the inequities of the justice system, police brutality etc. getting all uncomfortable. Your protest against their protest just proves the need for their protest, from my point of view.

No reports of violence going on, unlike the crowds of people like the Proud Bys etc. who have showed up at protests to threaten people, run over people and all kinds of ugliness. Funnily enough the same people complaining about this didn't care about those things.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/12/seattle-protest-chaz-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-police-free/3173968001/

This is USA Today, not exactly some radical left source.

Part of the lead up to this was police repeatedly using tear gas against non violent protestors.

Fa Dao said:
Yeah..I dont think so..nice try though. First off, I have been a democrat for 40 years. I was in protests for various causes when you were in diapers. You can be for the constitutional right to protest and still be against what is going on in Seattle and elsewhere...violent protest and taking over police stations/sections of cites is never acceptable regardless if it is from the supposed "right" or "left"...you are a highly intelligent young man and usually give logical and rational arguments...this isnt one of them.

Malcolm wrote:
1) the police respond to peaceful protests with violence constantly, and have done so for decades. What we have seeing are police riots, not riots by protestors.

2) yes, you don’t have to agree with anything. Not required.

3) the police are not a sacred institution.

4) the police need to be accountable for their actions, just like every other citizen, they do not deserve special treatment or privileges to commit acts of violence against innocent civilians.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 8:58 PM
Title: Re: Minneapolis Mayor - horrible how they treated him
Content:
Dan74 said:
I feel sad for the Mayor and the protests may well be wrong on this, but it does come with the territory being a politician. I don't really see what the outrage is about.

I mean of course one can argue that these protesters' demands are unreasonable. He came to speak to them and they were not happy with his message. This is democracy. As one poster said, they may have wasted an opportunity to have a dialogue with the mayor and achieved nothing except alienating him and providing fodder for the conservative outrage. Yeah...well...

Do I think this is the way to go? No. But it's not really something to clutch pearls about either.

Malcolm wrote:
As we have seen by now, the slightest pretext serves for conservative outrage. Biggest bunch of snowflakes ever.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 8:55 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I answered above: gnosis.

White Sakura said:
I don´t think that is an English word.
I reminds me in an unpleasant way to Rudolph Steiner who used it a lot and is well known in Europe...and used it with whatever different meaning.
For me it does not help, then it is better to just write: Jnana or Yeshe.
Non-dual wisdom. Understandable, proper English, no reminder to crazy Steiner.

Malcolm wrote:
Gnosis is indeed an English word.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 8:20 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
There is the wisdom derived from hearing; the wisdom derived from reflection, and the wisdom derived from meditation. AFAIC, wisdom is the best English term for prajñā. As a professional translator of Buddhist texts, who does nothing but sit around and think about these issues all day long, I am pretty sure wisdom is the best equivalent for prajñā in general.

If you follow how Vasubandhu defines prajñā, it is primarily the faculty of analytical discernment. It is also one of the ten neutral mental factors.

It appears you are using the term in one of its Mahāyāna senses, i.e., the sixth perfection, prajñāpāramitā, transcendent wisdom. But there wouldn't be any need for a perfection of wisdom if wisdom is "something far more direct/meditative." I still think you are conflating prajñā with jñāna, since the latter, unlike prajñā, is in fact direct intuition in the philosophical sense of the term, where as prajñā is principally analytical.

White Sakura said:
If you translate prajna as wisdom, prajnaparamita as transcendent wisdom, then how to you translate jnana? Non-dual wisdom?
But cannot Jnana also be translated as transcendent wisdom?

Dr. Berzin translates the sixth perfection as "discriminating awareness, wisdom"
https://studybuddhism.com/en/tibetan-buddhism/path-to-enlightenment/love-compassion/overview-of-the-six-perfections-six-paramitas

Which sounds very different from "transcendent wisdom" to me.

At least I would like to understand, in your system, how you translate ynana if using "transcendent wisdom" for the sixth perfection.

To be honest, it occurs to me that it is not possible to find the perfectly fitting English translations for single terms. Which shows it is best to use the Sankrit words.

Malcolm wrote:
I answered above: gnosis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 8:14 PM
Title: Re: Minneapolis Mayor - horrible how they treated him
Content:
krish5 said:
This has been bothering me for a few days now and have to ask Mahayana Buddhists, how they can support this? These so called "peaceful protests" that in my mind are filled with violence inwardly, anger, racism towards whites, foul language, vulgarity, etc. Watch the video of this incident, with the Mayor of their city. Blacks and Whites and who else here show no respect or civility towards him and even swear at him and give him the middle finger. If they dont get their way, they have no use for him and treat him worse than a animal. I was so turned off by these protests here and by the actions and behavior of the leaders speaking and the participants here. I cannot condone or support these kind of protests in any way and have nothing spiritual or peaceful about them. I will not participate in any of their protests! All of those people there should be ashamed of themselves and there were kids there, they are sending a good message to their kids, not! So again, how do Mahayana Buddhists not see the harmful behavior of many at these protests? It is mind boggling to me.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/minneapolis-mayor-protest-defund-police

p.s. - This is why i dont go to so called peaceful protests, because they are not peaceful or coming from love or understanding imo. Also, whether you agree with this Mayor or not, he deserved to be treated with more respect than what they gave him, which was zero, none. The Mayor of Chicago, would not tolerate this kind of being talked to, both are Democrats as far as i know. So we are not even talking about right wingers here but mayors of the left.

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t know where this idea comes from that elected officials deserve to be treated with respect when they are failing in their job. They serve us. That’s the point.

krish5 said:
So if i am understanding you correctly, you see nothing wrong with how they treated him at that protest?

Malcolm wrote:
They informed him that as an elected official, he was responsible for carrying out the will of the people, and if he does not listen, the people have the right to remove him. No one threatened him with harm, they just told him very clearly that he would be facing an electoral battle If they did not like his decisions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 2:06 PM
Title: Re: Minneapolis Mayor - horrible how they treated him
Content:
krish5 said:
This has been bothering me for a few days now and have to ask Mahayana Buddhists, how they can support this? These so called "peaceful protests" that in my mind are filled with violence inwardly, anger, racism towards whites, foul language, vulgarity, etc. Watch the video of this incident, with the Mayor of their city. Blacks and Whites and who else here show no respect or civility towards him and even swear at him and give him the middle finger. If they dont get their way, they have no use for him and treat him worse than a animal. I was so turned off by these protests here and by the actions and behavior of the leaders speaking and the participants here. I cannot condone or support these kind of protests in any way and have nothing spiritual or peaceful about them. I will not participate in any of their protests! All of those people there should be ashamed of themselves and there were kids there, they are sending a good message to their kids, not! So again, how do Mahayana Buddhists not see the harmful behavior of many at these protests? It is mind boggling to me.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/minneapolis-mayor-protest-defund-police

p.s. - This is why i dont go to so called peaceful protests, because they are not peaceful or coming from love or understanding imo. Also, whether you agree with this Mayor or not, he deserved to be treated with more respect than what they gave him, which was zero, none. The Mayor of Chicago, would not tolerate this kind of being talked to, both are Democrats as far as i know. So we are not even talking about right wingers here but mayors of the left.

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t know where this idea comes from that elected officials deserve to be treated with respect when they are failing in their job. They serve us. That’s the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 6:47 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
krish5 said:
I dont know what is going on, but wanted to share this latest news about them knowing each other:

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/502312-nightclub-employee-backtracks-on-claim-george-floyd-and-derek

Malcolm wrote:
Not really buying the walk back...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 6:44 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Mutation Allows Coronavirus to Infect More Cells, Study Finds. Scientists Urge Caution.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/science/coronavirus-mutation-genetics-spike.html

Unknown said:
Now, scientists have shown — at least in the tightly controlled environment of a laboratory cell culture — that viruses carrying that particular mutation infect more cells and are more resilient than those without it.

Geneticists cautioned against drawing conclusions about whether the variant, which has been circulating widely since February, spreads more easily in humans. There is no evidence that it is more deadly or harmful, and differences seen in a cell culture do not necessarily mean it is more contagious, they said.

But the new study, which has not yet been peer reviewed, does show that this mutation appears to change the biological function of the virus, experts said. The insight could be a crucial first step in understanding how the mutation behaves at a biomolecular level.

Researchers at Scripps Research, Florida, found that the mutation, known as D614G, stabilized the virus’s spike proteins, which protrude from the viral surface and give the coronavirus its name. The number of functional and intact spikes on each viral particle was about five times higher because of this mutation, they found.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 3:58 AM
Title: Re: Obelisk of Wokeness
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 3:54 AM
Title: Obelisk of Wokeness
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 3:39 AM
Title: Re: CHAZ - Seattle's Free Cap Hill movement, city, nation?
Content:
DNS said:
The right wing media is portraying it as a separatist movement of thugs. The left wing media is portraying it as a demonstration. Which is it, in your view?

Malcolm wrote:
People trying to figure some shit out.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 3:35 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:


Danny said:
Everything. Or did you think your elected officials fell out of the sky? You allowed that with informed consent regardless of your political affiliation left or right or third party.

Malcolm wrote:
No one asked for my consent. And I did not grant it.

Danny said:
Then you cannot complain, and must be content.

Regards

Malcolm wrote:
Umm, no. I sure as hell can complain, especially since no one asked for my consent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 1:37 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:


Danny said:
Everything. Or did you think your elected officials fell out of the sky? You allowed that with informed consent regardless of your political affiliation left or right or third party.

Malcolm wrote:
No one asked for my consent. And I did not grant it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 13th, 2020 at 12:43 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:
Danny said:
It might seem basic, but was wondering where's the dignity in all these issues, whether it's about a living wage, about police abuse, about foreign policy, the environment, wars, economy, covid situation etc.
where's the dignity?

Malcolm wrote:
What does dignity have to do with it? Dignity is not much use when you are being exploited, beaten down, choked from pollution, recruited to fight in capitalist wars, laid off, and sick from a novel virus, which does very unpredictable damage to the human body.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 10:38 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Sādhaka said:
It could be. Or the whole thing could be a setup. Who knows. This is why I try not to get very involved in politics anymore.

PeterC said:
In most cases the simplest explanation is usually the best one.  Police got caught on camera callously killing yet another person.  Society was already in a bad mood after months of being locked up and years of incompetent corrupt government, and decided they weren’t having it anymore.  Sometimes conspiracy theories explain things best, but I don’t think we need to resort to them to explain this one.

Malcolm wrote:
Come on, you know Soros has all those millions of protestors on his payroll.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 10:37 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:



tobes said:
Perhaps, in the conventional parlance. Your description still sounds a lot like the ancient Greek phronesis, which like other terms theoria and sophia all imply logos/reason. I think prajna entails these, but also, something far more direct/meditative - which is why some have been tempted to use gnosis.

Malcolm wrote:
Gnosis is best used for jnana. You seem to forget that there are three prajnas, born of  hearing, reflection, and  meditation.

tobes said:
No that was my point - " I think prajna entails these but also, something far more direct/meditative." No other referent, in Greek, Latin or English comes close to covering all three.

Malcolm wrote:
There is the wisdom derived from hearing; the wisdom derived from reflection, and the wisdom derived from meditation. AFAIC, wisdom is the best English term for prajñā. As a professional translator of Buddhist texts, who does nothing but sit around and think about these issues all day long, I am pretty sure wisdom is the best equivalent for prajñā in general.

If you follow how Vasubandhu defines prajñā, it is primarily the faculty of analytical discernment. It is also one of the ten neutral mental factors.

It appears you are using the term in one of its Mahāyāna senses, i.e., the sixth perfection, prajñāpāramitā, transcendent wisdom. But there wouldn't be any need for a perfection of wisdom if wisdom is "something far more direct/meditative." I still think you are conflating prajñā with jñāna, since the latter, unlike prajñā, is in fact direct intuition in the philosophical sense of the term, where as prajñā is principally analytical.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 10:23 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:



tobes said:
Prajna is so so distinctively Buddhist.

Malcolm wrote:
Hindus might object to this idea. They use the term prajñā as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 10:22 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
If you examine the available literature in Tibetan translation on the subject, we find that for example, Asanga, Vasubandhu, Sthiramati, etc., devote virtually no time at all to explicating the distinction between the three turnings of the wheel, which itself is given a single passage in the Sandhinirmocana Sūtra. And Maitreyanatha seems to dismiss the idea of the three turnings being successive in the first pages of the Sūtra-laṃkara.

By contrast, Won-ch'uk, a disciple of Xuantsang, by contrast treats the theme extensively in his three volume Āryagambhīrasaṃdhinirmocanasūtraṭīkā ((D 4016).

Of the Indian authors represented in the bstan 'gyur, where they give chronologies of the teachings, they tend to do so principally in commentaries on the tantras.

FromTheEarth said:
Very interesting—raised and mostly immersed in the East Asian tradition, I have not noticed this before. Surely the idea of a classification of Buddha's teachings should have other sources (some early Chinese classification systems do not have this chronological model at all). For instance, ideas as the distinction between definitive and provisional teachings, and that the Buddha addressed different audience differently, both of which seem to be more common themes in sutras and should have traces in treatises such as Mahāyāna-samgraha. Still, the fact you pointed out is indeed eye-opening.

Malcolm wrote:
The distinctions between provisional and definitive teachings have two major sources: Akṣayamatinirdeśa Sūtra, and the Samdhinirmocana. Madhyamakas follow the former while Yogacārins follow the latter. The Indian Madhyamaka approach is that if it is about emptiness, absence of identity, etc., it is definitive, everything else is provisional. The Samdhinirmocana seems to assert that its own class of sūtras are definitive because they purport to resolve controversies over the meaning of the Prajñāpāramita sūtra and so on.

In Tibet, the tathāgatagarbha sūtras are either provisional or definitive depending on how they are interpreted, and how closely one follows Candrakīrti, who clearly follows the Lanka in regarding tathagātagarbha as an expedient teaching. Despite some pushback by some Tibetan interpreters of Yogacāra, Candra's presentation of Madhyamaka is universally regarded as the definitive expression of Madhyamaka in Tibet.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 10:10 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Whether each enumeration of 10 bhūmis (or non-bhūmi "stages") are descriptions of the same ranks of 10 bhūmis or not, all description of these "stages" are buddhavacana.

Malcolm wrote:
They are, most definitely, descriptions of various qualities that belong to the ten bhumis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 10:08 PM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:
Danny said:
Poverty is generational. Over the years I always had in the back of my mind a phrase that I assumed was just a expression, a term coined by and a justification of the political class that there exists two states, the warfare state and the welfare state, and that's just how it is. Now if you apply that and look at governance in which ever flavor you wish to adhere too, it's pretty accurate. To govern or rule, whether your a dictator, a despot, a king or a prime minister, a president etc, whichever fancy title of nobility you like, you need three spheres of control to rule. You need the money supply ( treasury), you need the sword (military), and you need the faith ( church ). Missing any of those three aspects and your cooked. So if you look at the current conditions around you, apply those three to anybody in control and see if they truly are in control.

Malcolm wrote:
You also need brains, a deficit of which exists in the Trump Administration.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Sādhaka said:
It could be. Or the whole thing could be a setup. Who knows. This is why I try not to get very involved in politics anymore.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, it sure isn't Soros, despite the febrile imaginations of some.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 9:00 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Sādhaka said:
I’ve got no major horse in this race.

I mean I’m not an big fan of the popo, profiling people for no good reason, nor the enforcing of samsaric corporate legalities/codes/statutes/etc.

Therefore in this particular case the left seems to be more in the right.   At the same time all this current uproar seems to be less grassroots and more astroturf, but that kind of goes for everything nowadays....

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a groundswell.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 5:05 AM
Title: Murdoch on 2020 election
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
"Two sources said Rupert Murdoch has recently told people that he believes Trump is going to lose in November. “Rupert thinks Trump is going to crash and burn. It’s a clear-eyed assessment, just based on just looking at the news,” said a person who has spoken with Murdoch about the election."

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/scoop-sean-hannity-and-ainsley-earhardt-are-the-first-couple-of-fox


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 4:55 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:
Danny said:
this would still be a massive mess.

Malcolm wrote:
Speculative.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:
Dan74 said:
People have been screaming about it long enough. Hasn't done much good.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, this what unconditional support for global capitalism gets you:



So, better keep screaming.

Danny said:
In terms of the environment, I'm open minded about that, I have academic background in planetary sciences and can review technical papers. What your saying is a consensus brought about by Delphi techniques in steering committees. I know how that works having spent many hours in them, it's unfortunate that the science gets lost in the agendas.

Regards

Malcolm wrote:
Sorry, I don't buy your spin.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 3:01 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:
Dan74 said:
People have been screaming about it long enough. Hasn't done much good.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, this what unconditional support for global capitalism gets you:



So, better keep screaming.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 2:59 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:
Danny said:
Does that mean you've lost the argument?

Malcolm wrote:
???


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:


Danny said:
Remind me what denier is code for?

Malcolm wrote:
Dumb motherf---ers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 2:45 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:
Danny said:
I typed a refutation, then deleted. Wondering where the penchant and contrarian arguments of both left and right leaves space for the common sense and reasonable quiet centered majority?

Malcolm wrote:
Its pretty simple. Trump is an incompetent fool; he did not act, as a result of his inaction, more than 200K people will have died in the US by Sept. As long as there is no vaccine, and people are not socially distancing, taking correct measures to prevent infections, etc., we are looking at 25k deaths a month for the foreseeable future.

Assuming we don't get our shit together, covid-19 will take a million lives in the US before it is all over.

Climate change, habitat destruction, etc., is nothing to be MOR about. For example, one of the root causes of the explosion of Lyme disease is that when the passenger pigeons were all slaughtered, this caused an explosion in the white-foot mouse population, since the seeds that have previously mostly been consumed by the pigeons were not consumed by mice, in addition to increasing pressure on forests in the NE through suburban developments.

Shit is getting worse and worse. Common sense indicates it is sensible to get louder and louder about this shit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 12th, 2020 at 12:33 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:


Danny said:
Right, I think it's important that we understand medias playbook that's being rolled out over the pandemic reporting. It's become less and less science based and increasingly more partisan hackery. During this pandemic we've seen a shift from lockdown orders, to open embrace of defiance of authorative orders. Team freedom when it was citizens concerned with government over reach into private citizens lives was condemned. Yet now the same medi decrying white nationalists during protests, are praising recent protests and riots as for the greater good, pandemic lockdown be damned. Do as we say, not as we do.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no. What you say here is not accurate. All the news sources I frequent (NYT, etc.) repeatedly discuss the fact that the protests are going to cause massive spikes in covid-19 infection rates around the country. They will be hitting the hospitals this week.

As for the shifting factscape, this is a novel virus that has never before infected humans. We have barely had time for a comprehensive study about how much damage this virus can cause, how it does so, etc. Science does not keep up with events. It can't.



Danny said:
Get the politics out of directing science policy, and back to how that neutral science discipline directs the political policy.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, tell that to the GOP, the main deniers of climate change, covid, you name it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 10:35 PM
Title: Re: America's Fascist Collapse
Content:
Queequeg said:
Oh, and Trump is scheduled to have a rally in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juneteenth. The dog whistle is deafening.

Malcolm wrote:
Tulsa, OK, May 31-- June 1st, 1921.



We need to have a major event next year, mourning the 100th anniversary of the Tulsa Massacre.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 10:31 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
“Suchness” is a term coined by Conze, who was German. It’s surprisingly accurate.

Minobu said:
I'm trying to find your meaning of suchness in the thread.

can you restate what suchness means please.

Malcolm wrote:
tatha means "that" or "such."

tā is a Sanskrit particle which indicates nature or essence, like śunyatā, emptiness, etc.

Hence, we derived suchness, which sounds a little better than "thatness"


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 10:30 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
Simon E. said:
“Gnosis” is hardly the vernacular Malcolm. Not where i’m from...

Malcolm wrote:
Neither is primordial wisdom, transcendent wisdom, pristine consciousness, pristine awareness or other glosses on ye shes/jñāna...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 8:08 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:



tobes said:
I don't think so. "Wisdom" is incredibly vague with a lot of Aristotelian baggage that gets mixed into theism + new agey crap. If we must choose something, I prefer the dry and unappealing 'special insight'. But there's so much going on with prajna, it is best left alone.

Malcolm wrote:
No, not really, not definitionally. Wisdom and prajna are both alike in that they are accumulated, for example, “the accumulated wisdom of the years...” and so on. I could go on but there is no need.

tobes said:
Perhaps, in the conventional parlance. Your description still sounds a lot like the ancient Greek phronesis, which like other terms theoria and sophia all imply logos/reason. I think prajna entails these, but also, something far more direct/meditative - which is why some have been tempted to use gnosis.

Malcolm wrote:
Gnosis is best used for jnana. You seem to forget that there are three prajnas, born of  hearing, reflection, and  meditation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 11:57 AM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:


SteRo said:
Fine. Let's agree that we disagree.

PadmaVonSamba said:
“Suchness” doesn’t actually make any sense as a word in English. It’s an invented word, a relatively new term made up by Buddhists to express a concept for which no word exists in the English Language. There are all sorts of words in languages that don’t exactly translate into English, or into other languages. Translation is always a bit clumsy that way.

Manjushri said:
I might be wrong, since I read Heidegger and Husserl mostly in my native language, but I could have sworn that "suchness" is a term that has been used by some translators in the English language on works by these two philosophers?

Malcolm wrote:
“Suchness” is a term coined by Conze, who was German. It’s surprisingly accurate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 11:55 AM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
tobes said:
Yes, I really mean maha -karuna. Adding the prefix 'great' to ordinary compassion doesn't cut it for me, because I think we're really trying to describe something incredibly vast and profound.

Compassion per se has too much Christian and western moral philosophy baggage. As Simon E points out, it often implies something very partial, affective and sentimental. Something like Hume's notion of sympathy.

Most of this I'm plagiarizing from DKR; I think he's right.

Another one to leave alone: prajna. Even just for aesthetic reasons - it is so beautiful and so perfect in the Sanskrit.

Malcolm wrote:
Wisdom serves just fine for prajna, which no one pronounces correctly anyway (it’s pragnya). Great compassion is also just fine, unless it is a name, for example, four-armed Avalokiteshvara is Mahakarunika.

tobes said:
I don't think so. "Wisdom" is incredibly vague with a lot of Aristotelian baggage that gets mixed into theism + new agey crap. If we must choose something, I prefer the dry and unappealing 'special insight'. But there's so much going on with prajna, it is best left alone.

Malcolm wrote:
No, not really, not definitionally. Wisdom and prajna are both alike in that they are accumulated, for example, “the accumulated wisdom of the years...” and so on. I could go on but there is no need.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 11:03 AM
Title: Re: Greetings and Introduction
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Oh dear. Well for starters there is no soul and no ex nihilo creation in Buddhism. First causes are absolutely negated. Most importantly, there is no possibility of salvation by another. Rebirth and karma are the main existential issues. Welcome. Enjoy. Good luck.

Mr. Cole said:
Hey guys,


I recently became a member of one of the sister websites of this one, but I'm not sure if all, or even any, of the members of the other chat room are members of this one, so I will simply repost my introduction from that chat room here:


Hello everyone!


My name is Cole. This is literally my first day on this forum. Actually, this is the first time I've ever been on a forum like this. My social media life is kinda basic, but, ya know, nothing like being a 20-something-year-old Boomer!



Anyways, a little background about myself: I'm from the United States. I am currently pursuing my M.A. in theology, and a few years back graduated with my B.A. in theology as well. As you can probably tell from this, my area of expertise is theology, particularly Christian theology, and, more specifically Catholic theology (the denomination I am a member of), though, because I have spent a lot of time studying the Church Fathers and the Medieval Scholastics (think, in the Western Christian tradition, people like St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Anselm, St. Bonaventure, etc.), and these guys make use of a lot of philosophy, I do study philosophy as a sort of secondary area of interest.



For me, studying Catholic theology, and Christian theology more generally, is really the epitome of a passion for me. It lies at the crossroads of my personal/spiritual interests (more specifically my relationship with God, which is really the center of my sense of personal identity) and my intellectual/academic/professional interests. Yet, the academic that I am, if I could do nothing but study every known religion, I would. It's not that I am doubting my Catholic faith, or am necessarily convinced of the merits of Buddhist thought; rather, let me put it like this: if intellectual gluttony were a thing, I would have it bad. ANYTHING concerning philosophy and theology is fair game for me. The biggest issue for me is choosing just one area of expertise. I'll admit that my knowledge of Buddhism is somewhat limited, and, as someone thinking from mostly a Western standpoint, I frequently make a lot of category errors when trying to speak of Buddhism. Nonetheless, I have a list of books and articles on Buddhism a mile long I want to read, and I'm always looking for more suggestions.



But what really put me over the edge was how a friend of mine is a Buddhist. He too takes an interest in theology and philosophy, and we frequently get in a lot of debates and discussions on religion and philosophy. When we hung out the other day, he recommended this website. I'm not sure if he is a member of just visits it from time to time, but he said there were a lot of interesting discussions on here, particularly from a lot of people with a deep knowledge of both Western and Buddhist thought, who often compared the two or were good at providing critiques of Western thought from a Buddhist perspective. I have a lot of questions on Buddhism, and so thought I'd join.



Thus, in a word, thanks for having me aboard. Have a great day!


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 10:56 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
krish5 said:
Johnny, i agree about the privileges about being white. However, i am looking at a lot of this stuff from a Buddhist perspective. Samsara is suffering, whether rich or poor, white or black, christian or jew, healthy or unhealthy, good looking or ugly, etc  Even for the richest most good looking healthy white person there is suffering too.

Now with that said, i am not against working on fixing injustices in this world. We are all on the same page i feel, me, you, Malcolm, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
From a Buddhist point of view, we look at all of this from a multi lifetime perspective, positive and negative karma of infinite sentient beings working itself out, without error. But since we are not omniscient, and therefore cannot assign specific causation, wherever we see true inequality and injustice, we say something about it.

But quite frankly, giving any credence at all to the opinions of racist frat boys like Tucker Carlson? Sorry man, that is never going to happen. Fox News is poisonous and addictive, like cigarettes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 10:41 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:



yagmort said:
sure, i merely shared my current opinion, however deluded/immature it may be. but i also keep in mind examples of many masters, including Chatral Rinpoche, Dudjom Rinpoche or Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, all of whom done long retreats. i assume that matter of understanding how to integrate does require some secluded time dedicated to practice? otherwise why would so many dzogchen masters stay in retreats, some of them with decades under their belt?

Malcolm wrote:
We do not live in a largely cash-free agrarian society where practitioners are allowed to live for years without working. We live in a capitalist society where most people's main māra is named "Bill." Moreover, there are plenty examples in Tibet of ordinary people, hidden dzogchen practitioners, who attained rainbow body, while working regular jobs, etc. By placing too much emphasis on famous masters, we miss the point that it is very possible to integrate practice into our lives and achieve the supreme result without spending years in some cave. But some people like caves.

Sennin said:
This is a very important point. We have to work with circumstances and realize our fantasies of what  practice are supposed to look like are obstacles.

Malcolm wrote:
Totally.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 10:27 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
krish5 said:
"You and I are white motherf—-ers. Don’t ever forget that."

Yes, i hear you in your latest post. So just because we are white, does that mean we are privileged and part of the problem?

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, if we don’t recognize our privilege and take responsibility for it, than we are definitely part of the problem.

krish5 said:
Are me and you personally responsible for this mess?

Malcolm wrote:
We are beneficiaries of a system of inequality and injustice. I think you can figure it out from there.

krish5 said:
Did we carry on this genocide or did our ancestors? What is Malcolms part in this, by the fact of his whiteness? This is the core of the issue, i think.

Malcolm wrote:
As I said above, “ We are beneficiaries of a system of inequality and injustice.”

That is what having “white privilege” means.

What else does a rational person need know?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 10:05 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
krish5 said:
"That’s the genocide that I keep referring to. Slavery and genocide: the father and mother of America."

Malcolm, we are on the same side. We are both fighting the same fight, in different ways!

Malcolm wrote:
Check your privilege, dude. You will never be a native person, with their experience. To even suggest you ever could is totally wrong. You were not raised on a reservation, denied schooling in your own language, I could go on and on. You have no idea what it is like to grow up as a black person, a native person, a Latin person, or an Asian person. You and I are white motherf—-ers. Don’t ever forget that. Don’t pretend you belong to a culture you don’t belong to. You are a guest, not a member. I never forget that with Tibetans, even for one second. And I know a lot of Tibetans, read their language, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 9:59 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
krish5 said:
To Johnny, i dont want to make this personal about me. But i can tell you that the Native Americans i was with, told me i was part of the tribe, it is in the heart, not biological. They quoted the Hopi about this. They look into a persons heart and they know. But not everyone in the tribe accepts this, and some want only biological full Native Americans only. But enough of this personal, my heart is one with the Native Americans, that is all.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh for f—-‘s sake. Quoting the Hopi? Do you even have one single f—-ing clue left?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 9:56 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
krish5 said:
"That’s the genocide that I keep referring to. Slavery and genocide: the father and mother of America."

Malcolm, we are on the same side. We are both fighting the same fight, in different ways!

Malcolm wrote:
I know what side I am on. I really am not sure about you, because you keep citing known sources of total, complete, unqualified, utterly racist bullshit. And this is not something which can be chalked up to a reasonable difference of opinion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 9:48 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
krish5 said:
To Malcolm, you are supposed to be interested in the struggles of Native Americans i think you said.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s the genocide that I keep referring to. Slavery and genocide: the father and mother of America.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 9:46 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
krish5 said:
Native Americans should be included in the conversation i feel.

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, virtue signaling with native people now? Whom white people have murdered and are still murdering in one of the largest and most prolonged genocides in history, which continues to this day?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 8:36 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
krish5 said:
I went out to lunch today, and took my right wing, supposedly racist beliefs with me. There was a black guy working there and we struck up a conversation. I was friendly and all, and found out we are both from the same city. Anyways, we talked for like 10 minutes and he said he cannot wait for this coronvirus stuff to be over, so things can get back to normal. He then brought up the protests (George Floyd) and said i hope they dont spread the coronavirus even more. Here i was in a public place and talking with a black man, and i am not racist and never thought twice about it, but now given the current situation and how quickly people will react or judge you for what you say, i was surprised he himself brought up the protests. As a good decent human being that i am, i spoke honestly and from my heart and told him what i felt about the possible spread of the virus right now. I said it is not the time to be out there protesting in the thousands during a pandemic. He listened to me and there was no conflict. We both were allowed to say whatever we wanted and listened to each other. There was no racism on either end, as far as i can tell. It is a shame that so much of this has turned into a racial thing, when it is not, imo. Just wanted to share this story with you, about my positive pleasant experience today.

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, I mean it’s just too bad a racist murder got turned into a racial thing. Go figure, huh?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 5:23 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Well its about f---king time.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 3:18 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Speculation for you, maybe. Not me. The thing that first tipped my spidey sense was the familiarity with which Chauvin addressed Floyd as "tough guy."

Queequeg said:
Maybe. We'll see how good your spidey senses are. We might have documentation of a siddhi!
The club employee stated that Floyd was the one who handed the paychecks to Chauvin, who blamed Floyd for supposedly being underpaid.

Malcolm wrote:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/floyd-chauvin-argued-working-together-club-ex-coworker


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 12:58 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Queequeg said:
We're ticking up towards a First Degree Murder charge.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads/?fbclid=IwAR2qOYNgp0UUlMVCpJx_sskfnIuMol5rL_i0ekNGd4F0TOjP8WCHyFpVGYQ

Malcolm wrote:
See, I TOLD you it was impossible the two men did not know each other.

Queequeg said:
When you wrote that, it was speculation. Now we have at least one witness who suggests that they did know each other. Not much detail and not clear what their interactions were, if any. More investigation is necessary.

Malcolm wrote:
Speculation for you, maybe. Not me. The thing that first tipped my spidey sense was the familiarity with which Chauvin addressed Floyd as "tough guy."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 11th, 2020 at 12:22 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Queequeg said:
We're ticking up towards a First Degree Murder charge.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads/?fbclid=IwAR2qOYNgp0UUlMVCpJx_sskfnIuMol5rL_i0ekNGd4F0TOjP8WCHyFpVGYQ

Malcolm wrote:
See, I TOLD you it was impossible the two men did not know each other.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 11:49 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Fa Dao said:
And a compelling interview of Bob Woodson:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-dangers-of-vilifying-all-police-former-civil-rights-activist-bob-woodson_3382028.html

Malcolm wrote:
Seriously dude, the epoch times?

Fa Dao said:
"Overall, we rate The Epoch Times borderline Questionable and Right Biased based on editorial positions that consistently favor the right. We also rate them factually Mixed due to the publication of pseudoscience and the promotion of pro-Trump propaganda and conspiracy theories as well as failed fact checks."

Malcolm wrote:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-epoch-times/

Fa Dao said:
Its an interview of Bob Woodson, one of the greats of the civil rights movement..I really doubt they were holding a gun to his head to make him say what he did. That you responded so quickly shows you didnt even hear what he had to say...both him and Bernie are calling for more common sense

Malcolm wrote:
I know who Bob Woodson is. His center's board of directors has seven white men, one black man, and one asian.

I would not call him one of the "greats" of the civil rights movement, but here is a review of his contributions during the 1970's:

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/02/25/the-missed-opportunity-of-robert-woodson


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 11:19 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Fa Dao said:
And a compelling interview of Bob Woodson:
https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-dangers-of-vilifying-all-police-former-civil-rights-activist-bob-woodson_3382028.html

Malcolm wrote:
Seriously dude, the epoch times?

Fa Dao said:
"Overall, we rate The Epoch Times borderline Questionable and Right Biased based on editorial positions that consistently favor the right. We also rate them factually Mixed due to the publication of pseudoscience and the promotion of pro-Trump propaganda and conspiracy theories as well as failed fact checks."

Malcolm wrote:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-epoch-times/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 10:07 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Says it all:



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/nyregion/james-demarco-franklinville-george-floyd-protest.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 10:04 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:



PeterC said:
This is a nice illustration of why we need to bust the police unions

Queequeg said:
Holy shit. What a bunch of clueless whiners.

These people should know well why they're hated. They should be welcoming a thorough house cleaning to get rid of their bad apples.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, bad trees produce bad apples, so I heard someone say.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 10:03 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Indian Buddhists were completely unimpressed with Sutric Descriptions of different schemes and divisions of the sutras into time periods of the Buddha’s life. They betray very little interest in such claims.

FromTheEarth said:
If I am not bothering you (otherwise please feel free to ignore me), this, the first sentence above, again is a very strong claim...A scholarly plausible view (just like when you challenged the traditional narrative of the authorship of the Mahāprajñāpāramitopadeśa) should press one toward the second option.

Malcolm wrote:
If you examine the available literature in Tibetan translation on the subject, we find that for example, Asanga, Vasubandhu, Sthiramati, etc., devote virtually no time at all to explicating the distinction between the three turnings of the wheel, which itself is given a single passage in the Sandhinirmocana Sūtra. And Maitreyanatha seems to dismiss the idea of the three turnings being successive in the first pages of the Sūtra-laṃkara.

By contrast, Won-ch'uk, a disciple of Xuantsang, by contrast treats the theme extensively in his three volume Āryagambhīrasaṃdhinirmocanasūtraṭīkā ((D 4016).

Of the Indian authors represented in the bstan 'gyur, where they give chronologies of the teachings, they tend to do so principally in commentaries on the tantras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 8:08 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
An entirely new English language vocabulary could be created for words that only apply in a buddhist context:
“Interessenceless”
“Mindfulessness”
“Polysingular“

...after all, PALI was not a vernacular language when it was used to record the Buddha’s words.


Malcolm wrote:
However the Buddha insisted that his teaching be communicated in local vernaculars.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 8:06 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
tobes said:
Yes, I really mean maha -karuna. Adding the prefix 'great' to ordinary compassion doesn't cut it for me, because I think we're really trying to describe something incredibly vast and profound.

Compassion per se has too much Christian and western moral philosophy baggage. As Simon E points out, it often implies something very partial, affective and sentimental. Something like Hume's notion of sympathy.

Most of this I'm plagiarizing from DKR; I think he's right.

Another one to leave alone: prajna. Even just for aesthetic reasons - it is so beautiful and so perfect in the Sanskrit.

Malcolm wrote:
Wisdom serves just fine for prajna, which no one pronounces correctly anyway (it’s pragnya). Great compassion is also just fine, unless it is a name, for example, four-armed Avalokiteshvara is Mahakarunika.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 7:51 PM
Title: Re: How has being a Buddhist changed you?
Content:
krish5 said:
"It certainly does not mean that Buddha was saying that some people can gain liberation through Advaita; others Christianity, and so on."

You dont have to answer, but if you want to, do you think Buddhism is the only path, the only way to liberation?

Malcolm wrote:
Of course, just as the Buddha himself said.

krish5 said:
61. And the Blessed One spoke, saying: "In whatsoever Dhamma and Discipline, Subhadda, there is not found the Noble Eightfold Path, neither is there found a true ascetic of the first, second, third, or fourth degree of saintliness. But in whatsoever Dhamma and Discipline there is found the Noble Eightfold Path, there is found a true ascetic of the first, second, third, and fourth degrees of saintliness.[54] Now in this Dhamma and Discipline, Subhadda, is found the Noble Eightfold Path; and in it alone are also found true ascetics of the first, second, third, and fourth degrees of saintliness. Devoid of true ascetics are the systems of other teachers. But if, Subhadda, the bhikkhus live righteously, the world will not be destitute of arahats.
My only question is, what do you say about HHDL and His Eminence Professor Samdhong Rinpoche saying that Buddhism is not the only path, only religion. They both even encourage those of other religions to stick with their own religions, instead of becoming Buddhists, if they can. Take what is useful, helpful from Buddhism, but you can still practice your own religion. Only if one is really interested in Buddhism and investigated it and want to become a Buddhist, would they say it is okay. Otherwise stick with your own religion. They also relate religions to different foods, some prefer this taste (particular religion) over that taste (another religion).

Malcolm wrote:
Advising people not to convert is not an endorsement of the idea that what is meant by liberation in Buddhism is shared with other faiths.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 7:40 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 9:35 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I'm suggesting that the rhetoric of tantric empowerment is that it is often described as starting with the abhiṣeka of the Buddhas of the ten directions that Mahāyāna practitioners are generally believed to receive at the 10th bhūmi and that the maṇḍala wherein it takes place is the akaniṣṭa ghanavyūha. I could be wrong though.

Bristollad said:
But just because "it is often described as starting with the abhiṣeka of the Buddhas of the ten directions that Mahāyāna practitioners are generally believed to receive at the 10th bhūmi" doesn't mean that a tantric practitioner is necessarily a bodhisattva on the 10th bhumi.  If that were the case, the rhetoric of tantra being a swifter path wouldn't make much sense - one would have already completed 3 countless aeons of merit gathering the same as the Perfection vehicle.

Caoimhghín said:
"Is often described" was simply me being humble. I can take it back if it caused confusion.

So we're dealing with different assignments of the "tathāgatabhūmi," which as I understand some Tantrikas place at an "11th" station, 10th-stage bhūmikas being merely bodhisattvas. So when I say "the abhiṣeka of the Buddhas of the ten directions that Mahāyāna practitioners [...] receive at the 10th bhūmi" I am talking about what you might consider the 11th bhūmi. We can just discard this "specific enumeration of bhūmi" business as well, since it's causing problems. 11th, 10th aside, we're talking "samyaksaṁbuddhatva," and that's what's important, "(complete) Buddhahood-in-this-life," not "the irreversible grounds," not "śrāvakabuddhatva," etc. Otherwise, Vajrayāna just a free-for-all redefining of terms from Mahāyāna. And yes, I'm fully aware that there are contingency plans for when practitioners receive this abhiṣeka and it's evident that nothing important has really happened and no realization has accompanied their empowerment. The point is, if you need your sadhāna to facilitate your accumulations, then you never actually received the abhiṣeka of the Buddhas of the ten directions in the first place. They don't hand those out to just anyone.
jmlee369 said:
I thought the 52 stages scheme was from the Bodhisattva keyūra mūla karma sūtra? The Avatamsaka Sutra itself teaches the 40 something stages, Fazang also adapted the Keyura sutra's scheme, and then there's the Shurangama's 57 stages?.

Caoimhghín said:
50+ bhūmi schemata show up in Shugendō and Daoist-Buddhist hybrid scriptures as well. I've never read the Keyūrasūtra, and I can't find that much about it. I certainly wouldn't want to call it apocryphal, not knowing that for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me. Talking about the Śūraṅgama, do you mean the Indian Śūraṅgamasamādhisūtra or the Chinese Śūraṅgama?

The Buddhāvataṁsaka supposedly lays out the 52 bodhisattva stages, but then once you get to its nested Daśabhūmikasūtra, there are only 10. I've never read the bulk of the Buddhāvataṁsaka. It's just too massive. Supposedly, chapters 15, 21, 22, 25, and 26 lay out grounds 1-40 in successive enumerations of ten bhūmis. I think the Indian tradition was that all of these lists of 10 bhūmis are the same 10 bhūmis, but I'm not actually sure there, so I'd need to read a bit. Am I going to be jumped on for daring to admit that I'm not sure of something? We'll find out next time on DharmaWheel!

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, there are only ten bodhisattva bhumis. No more and no less. There are also the five paths. No more and no less. There are anywhere from 1 to 11 stages of buddhahood, depending on system.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 8:52 AM
Title: Re: W.H.O. Walks Back Claim That Asymptomatic Transmission is Rare
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
The NYT seems to be using the story to attack the WHO, which may or may not surprise you.
Also, the facts are too complicated for most journalists, so the NYT is reporting the politics instead.
The WHO was not "Walking Back its Claim" but trying to clarify a complicated issue. If you want a less biased and more informative version of the same story, try (our) ABC:
Key points:

Contract tracing in some countries has found the spread of coronavirus by asymptomatic people is rare
Singapore health officials have suggested half of the country's cases were symptomless
The lack of spread by asymptomatic people could be because they do not cough and sneeze as much

The spread of coronavirus by those who do not show any symptoms appears to be "very rare", says a World Health Organization official.

Data from countries with advanced contract tracing measures seem to show the highly contagious virus is not being spread by those who are asymptomatic, according to WHO epidemiologist Maria van Kerkhove.

"It is very rare, and much of that is not published in the literature," Dr van Kerhove said. ...

"We have a number of reports from countries who are doing very detailed contact tracing," Dr van Kerkhove told a WHO media briefing overnight.

"They are following asymptomatic cases, following contacts and not finding secondary transmission."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-09/coronavirus-spread-by-asymtomatic-people-rare-no-symptoms-who/12336346

As for the WHO in general ... most of the criticism comes from people you wouldn't trust to run a kindergarten bus service.


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
I am not critical of the WHO, there is an enormous that we do not understand about this  disease.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 4:14 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
TharpaChodron said:
This is too idealistic for me, especially the suggestion that community services and social workers are going to be replacing police. Working for CPS, we do not detain children without law enforcement present, for good reason. People generally aren’t happy to be told their children need to be removed from their care. They get volatile. They get assaultive. You can’t usually wait a month or two and reason with an abusive parent, unless you don’t mind having possible blood on your hands. Dealing with people who will abuse a child, whether sexually, physically or emotionally, etc who may or may not be under the influence of substances and who may or may not have untreated mental health, is high risk. And guess what, most of them think they were doing just fine until the social worker came and ruined their life, they don’t need help (so they say)...

Overall people need services not “punishment,” but a lot of people will not do the right thing or services by some call to their higher self, they need wrathful means to get them there. I say this all because me and my coworkers often rely on the support of law enforcement when we have to open that door, talk to that irate parent, and defuse a potentially violent situation at 3am. Btw, I’m a social worker because I believe in people’s ability to change and in social justice. I just don’t think defunding the police is the right way to change things.

Malcolm wrote:
Defunding the police does not mean completely removing security professionals from communities or as adjuncts social service workers. It means completely reframing what we understand the role of security professionals to be.

In many places the police presently are the only social services there are. And they are not properly trained for many of the demands placed upon them. On the other hand, they are often funded at levels social service workers cannot even imagine unless they are actively reading the budgets for their own communities.

It means reframing the whole idea of community security so that the police cease behaving like an occupying force in black and brown communities. Compton, CA and Camden, NJ, provide a good model. Hopefully Minneapolis will follow this course.

TharpaChodron said:
I’m all for some reframing, retraining and more education for LE. The community policing idea seems a bit uncertain though. Like when it comes to domestic violence. The Hmong community have been doing community policing unofficially for years, leading to women’s voices and abuse being silenced by elders, underreported, fear of community shaming. Maybe having an outside arbiter provides anonymity and safety for victims  sometimes. I do like the idea of having police go out with community service/social workers in joint responses.

Malcolm wrote:
I am not talking about community policing as commonly understood. But I am talking about completely redefining what "policing" means:
In cities, increasing urbanization rendered the night-watch system completely useless as communities got too big. The first publicly funded, organized police force with officers on duty full-time was created in Boston in 1838. Boston was a large shipping commercial center, and businesses had been hiring people to protect their property and safeguard the transport of goods from the port of Boston to other places, says Potter. These merchants came up with a way to save money by transferring to the cost of maintaining a police force to citizens by arguing that it was for the “collective good.”

In the South, however, the economics that drove the creation of police forces were centered not on the protection of shipping interests but on the preservation of the slavery system. Some of the primary policing institutions there were the slave patrols tasked with chasing down runaways and preventing slave revolts, Potter says; the first formal slave patrol had been created in the Carolina colonies in 1704. During the Civil War, the military became the primary form of law enforcement in the South, but during Reconstruction, many local sheriffs functioned in a way analogous to the earlier slave patrols, enforcing segregation and the disenfranchisement of freed slaves.

...

For example, businessmen in the late 19th century had both connections to politicians and an image of the kinds of people most likely to go on strike and disrupt their workforce. So it’s no coincidence that by the late 1880s, all major U.S. cities had police forces. Fears of labor-union organizers and of large waves of Catholic, Irish, Italian, German, and Eastern European immigrants, who looked and acted differently from the people who had dominated cities before, drove the call for the preservation of law and order, or at least the version of it promoted by dominant interests. For example, people who drank at taverns rather than at home were seen as “dangerous” people by others, but they might have pointed out other factors such as how living in a smaller home makes drinking in a tavern more appealing. (The irony of this logic, Potter points out, is that the businessmen who maintained this belief were often the ones who profited off of the commercial sale of alcohol in public places.)
https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/

What we can see from this is that business externalized the cost of protecting their goods and slaves onto communities. We can see from the above that the job of the police in the US has always to protect the interests of capitalists first and foremost. That must end.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: W.H.O. Walks Back Claim That Asymptomatic Transmission is Rare
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
Quite frankly I think W.H.O. kinda blew this pandemic.

Malcolm wrote:
So did the CDC. And we know why.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 2:51 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:



heart said:
I have done that for 35 years,

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Well, what are you fussing about then? Bored at work?

heart said:
Oh yeah.

/magnus


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:


javier.espinoza.t said:
this is the most difficult point, ime, in ChNN's style of practicing dzogchen.

if i recall correctly, one should be completely integrated in society.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, one should be like a hidden yogi. Practicing, not drawing attention to oneself, etc., working a regular job, etc., etc.

heart said:
I have done that for 35 years,

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Well, what are you fussing about then? Bored at work?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Full video:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 1:25 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:


javier.espinoza.t said:
this is the most difficult point, ime, in ChNN's style of practicing dzogchen.

if i recall correctly, one should be completely integrated in society.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, one should be like a hidden yogi. Practicing, not drawing attention to oneself, etc., working a regular job, etc., etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 1:23 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:



heart said:
you are already totally integrated in society.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
No, actually, most people in society are not integrated at all. That's the point.

heart said:
I am not sure what you mean with integrated at this point.

Malcolm wrote:
ChNN talks about integration. The more integrated one is, the less problems one has. If does not matter if one is in a cave or a bazaar.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 12:55 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:



heart said:
Good point. From the view of society Dharma is a waste of time. If Dharma gets to integrated witch society it will become a waste of time.

/magnus

javier.espinoza.t said:
stopping isn't in the table. i'm talking of integrating oneself into society, not integrating dharma into society.

heart said:
you are already totally integrated in society.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
No, actually, most people in society are not integrated at all. That's the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
rose said:
...video...

Grigoris said:
This is becoming a common tactic with the police here too.  During the demonstrations against the building of a new detention center for refugees here on the island, the riot police attacked the demonstrators and as they pushed them back they vandalised the parked cars of the demonstrators parked at the side of the road:  smashing windshields, slashing tyres, kicking in the panels...

But how is it even possible to doubt what is being shown in the video?

Malcolm wrote:
Trump will gaslight his followers and they will believe it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 12:20 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:


rose said:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mother-jones/

Malcolm wrote:
From this link:
A factual search reveals that Mother Jones has not failed a fact check.

Overall, we rate Mother Jones strongly Left-Center biased based on story selection that moderately favors the left and High for factual reporting due to thorough sourcing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 10th, 2020 at 12:09 AM
Title: W.H.O. Walks Back Claim That Asymptomatic Transmission is Rare
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/world/coronavirus-updates.html

Unknown said:
A top expert at the World Health Organization on Tuesday walked back her earlier assertion that transmission of the coronavirus by people who do not have symptoms is “very rare.”

Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, who made the original comment at a W.H.O. briefing on Monday, said that it was based on just two or three studies and that it was a “misunderstanding” to say asymptomatic transmission is rare globally.

“I was just responding to a question, I wasn’t stating a policy of W.H.O. or anything like that,” she said.

Dr. Van Kerkhove said that the estimates of transmission from people without symptoms come primarily from models, which may not provide an accurate representation. “That’s a big open question, and that remains an open question,” she said.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 11:19 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 11:05 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
heart said:
If Dharma gets to integrated witch society it will become a waste of time.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a really sad statement.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 11:03 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:



heart said:
That would be the only one.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
You wouldn't count Trungpa? Dungsey Thrinly Norbu? HHDL? Come on.

heart said:
Not really namthars, right?

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
"Namthar" is not a book, Magnus, it is a life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 10:53 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:



heart said:
No, please name one namthar that tells us about how to integrate in our modern society or any society for that matter?

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
The namthar of ChNN, etc.

heart said:
That would be the only one.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
You wouldn't count Trungpa? Dungsey Thrinly Norbu? HHDL? Come on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 10:45 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
Simon E. said:
Well, I would qualify that somewhat. Karuna does have a similar semantic range to compassion. But the quality of Karuna is always by association paired with Upeksha, thus avoiding a sentimental over identification with the object of compassion..

Malcolm wrote:
But actually, in the common meaning of the word karuna, it just means compassion. The association with upekṣa is a Buddhist context.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 10:18 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
tobes said:
It has usually been used as a synonym for emptiness. I think the translators were attempting to convey the inexpressibility/inconceivability of shunyata. i.e. to avoid using a term which turns emptiness into a thing.

I actually think it works in conveying this sense of ineffability - better than emptiness or voidness does.

But they're all crap, at the end of the day.

Simon E. said:
Yes, none are worth dying on a hill for. As so often the real answer in my view is to internalise the shades of meaning in the original Sanskrit or Tibetan or in this case Japanese, by seeing them used in a variety of contexts. Not to attempt word for word translations. No one for example attempts to translate Bodhicitta by one single word of a modern European language yet we persist with other terms which are just as nuanced.

tobes said:
Agree. Actually I was called away while I was writing that last post, and I wanted to add: shunyata, karma, maha-karuna....we're at the stage where they're best off left alone.

One English term that really works well though: dependent co-origination/arising.

Malcolm wrote:
"Emptiness" is perfectly fine for śūnyatā, which after all, means zero in Indian mathematics. The implication is that compounded and uncompounded phenomena are hollow, devoid of substance, insubstantial, evanescent, illusory, etc.

Karma depends on context, when referring to the doctrine, best left as karma; but when it can be translated as action, it should be. Karuna has the same semantic range as compassion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 10:12 PM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
jake said:
So how would y'all translate: "tathatā?"

Malcolm wrote:
Well "tatha" means:

tathA	ind. (%{tA7-thA} , correlative of %{ya4-thA} Pa1n2. 5-3 , 26 ; g. %{cA7di} Ka1s3. and Gan2ar.) in that manner , so , thus (the correlative standing in the preceding or in the subsequent clause , e.g. %{yathA@priyaM} , %{tathA7stu} , `" as is agreeable , so let it be "' ; %{tathA@prayatnam@AtiSThed@yathA7tmAnaM@na@pIDayet} , `" he should so make effort as that he may not injure himself. "' Mn. vii , 68 ; %{tathA@tathA-yathA} , so much that VP. iv ; also correlative of %{iva} Mn. iii , 181 R. i , 4 , 12 ; of %{yena} Katha1s. iii , 18 ; of %{yAdRza} Mn. i , 42 ; used in forms of adjuration e.g. %{yathA7ham@anyaM@na@cintaye@tathA7yam@patatAM@kSudraH@parA7suH} , `" as surely as I do not think on any other man , so surely let this wretch fall dead "' Nal. xi , 36) RV. &c. ; yes , so be it , so it shall be (particle of assent , agreement , or promise ; generally followed by %{iti}) AV. iii , 4 , 5 S3Br. AitBr. &c. (%{tathe7ty@uktvA} , having said `" so be it "' or `" yes "' Nal. &c.) ; so also , in like manner (e.g. %{sukhaM@seved@duHkhaM@tathA} , `" let him make use of prosperity and also adversity "') Mn. MBh. &c. ; = %{tathA@hi} Nal. xix , 25

tathAtA means:	f. true state of things , true nature Vajracch. 17.

It is strictly a Buddhist term.

So, suchness, thatness, etc, are ok.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 9:49 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Norwegian said:
This is sheer insanity:

Malcolm wrote:
It is some Russian bullshit he saw.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 9:48 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 8:40 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:



heart said:
I think that is a very strange opinion because there are no namthars like that. I dare you to change my mind.

/magnus

javier.espinoza.t said:
like what, dealing with obstacles?

heart said:
No, please name one namthar that tells us about how to integrate in our modern society or any society for that matter?

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
The namthar of ChNN, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 8:38 PM
Title: Re: Ngagpa-facial hair?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Shave or don't shave, its up to you. It only covers hair on the head, not facial hair, pubic hair, or body hair.

Losal Samten said:
Any advice on sideburns, where headhair and beard meet/mingle?

Malcolm wrote:
Sideburns are not considered head hair.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 8:36 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
I have no reason to doubt Zhi Yi’s sincere faith in the Mahāprajñāpāramitopadeśa. There is zero chance that Nagarjuna composed this text, however. So my point still stands.

Anders said:
Are you also disputing that the work is Indian, and/or somehow not representative of Indian Madhyamika at its time of writing?

Malcolm wrote:
I am disputing its authorship.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 8:35 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://apple.news/AAfMcrCJFR4qTlBKR9JqO5A

Unknown said:
Camden, New Jersey, may be the closest thing to a case study they can get.
The city, home to a population about 17% of Minneapolis' size, dissolved its police department in 2012 and replaced it with an entirely new one after corruption rendered the existing agency unfixable.
Before its police reforms, Camden was routinely named one of the most violent cities in the US.
Now, seven years after the old department was booted, the city's crime has dropped by close to half. Officers host outdoor parties for residents and knock on doors to introduce themselves. It's a radically different Camden than it was even a decade ago. Here's how they did it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 12:18 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
DNS said:
Abolishing the police would have the opposite of its intended effects. It would not help the poor and disadvantaged communities. The rich and wealthy would just hire private security guards and companies. Many of them already do that. Just look at some "exclusive" neighborhoods, many with guard gated entrances that lead you to additional interior gated areas and then there are roving patrols, bicycle patrols, foot patrols, all privately funded from their HOA funds. The poor communities cannot afford this and would be left without any security.

Malcolm wrote:
The point is that “policing” these communities isn’t working; it isn’t reducing crime; and it isn’t meeting the needs of these communities, in fact it inflicts harm, fatal and otherwise, on them with very distressing regularity. The levels of police brutality we have seen in recent days show that the police themselves are a self-conscious entity, seeking to preserve and enlarge its power in our society to all of our detriment. This must end. There is no justification at all for the militarization of the police force, a lack of enforced federal standards for peacetime officer training, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 11:31 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Indian Buddhists were completely unimpressed with Sutric Descriptions of different schemes and divisions of the sutras into time periods of the Buddha’s life. They betray very little interest in such claims. But Chinese Buddhists were very interested in such schemes, in trying to make sense of this foreign religion. The Tibetan Buddhist ideas about the three turnings [ rejected in Sakya, however] too are entirely dependent on Chinese Yogacara, not the Yogacarabhumi, etc.

FromTheEarth said:
If I am not bothering you (otherwise please feel free to ignore me), this, the first sentence above, again is a very strong claim.
We do not have much literature which reliably described how ordinary ancient Indian Buddhists practiced Buddhism. However, the production of the Mahayana sutras (from a secular scholarship point of view), and their dissemination, must indicate the "authors"/copiers/audience's strong interest in the major themes therewithin. Maybe some of those themes have less representation in the more prominent Buddhist scholars' works, which dominated the high-end, intellectual discourse. However, I won't doubt that, when they became circulated among ancient Indian Buddhists, some of those Mahayana sutras were often used to defend the authority of Mahayana, help figure out the relation between the Sravakayana doctrines and the revolutionary new ones, clarify the apparent contradictions among different teachings, etc. And those sutras (usually in a more accessible genre full of allegories and stories) formed the framework within which many, both monastic and lay, comprehended the Buddhadharma. (One example is that not many ancient Indian Buddhist scholars composed text on tathagatagarbha or spoke of it very positively, in stark contrast with, say, the abundance of sutras that highlighted such theme. The latter should be indicative of the larger audience's interest due to the theme's soteriological significance).
My contention throughout has been that when you refer to "Indian Buddhists" and say they had little interest in A, B, and C, it should be clearly distinguished whether you mean most ancient Indian Buddhists or the scholars whose works survived today. A scholarly plausible view (just like when you challenged the traditional narrative of the authorship of the Mahāprajñāpāramitopadeśa) should press one toward the second option.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a bulletin board, not an academic forum. I do apologize, but I really do not have time to flesh out my opinions for you in the kind of detail you deserve. So you will just have to accept my broad strokes for what they are, broad strokes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 10:35 AM
Title: Re: How has being a Buddhist changed you?
Content:
krish5 said:
"It certainly does not mean that Buddha was saying that some people can gain liberation through Advaita; others Christianity, and so on."

You dont have to answer, but if you want to, do you think Buddhism is the only path, the only way to liberation?

Malcolm wrote:
Of course, just as the Buddha himself said.

krish5 said:
61. And the Blessed One spoke, saying: "In whatsoever Dhamma and Discipline, Subhadda, there is not found the Noble Eightfold Path, neither is there found a true ascetic of the first, second, third, or fourth degree of saintliness. But in whatsoever Dhamma and Discipline there is found the Noble Eightfold Path, there is found a true ascetic of the first, second, third, and fourth degrees of saintliness.[54] Now in this Dhamma and Discipline, Subhadda, is found the Noble Eightfold Path; and in it alone are also found true ascetics of the first, second, third, and fourth degrees of saintliness. Devoid of true ascetics are the systems of other teachers. But if, Subhadda, the bhikkhus live righteously, the world will not be destitute of arahats.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 10:16 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
It’s definitely true that the snapshot of Indian Buddhism that Tibetans took was later than the largely  Central-Asian filtered Buddhism which had the most influence on Chinese Buddhism.  But, for  example, Zi yi’s interpretation of the four siddhantas owes nothing observable to Indian Buddhism, nor his fivefold division of Buddhist texts, etc. I personally think part of the reason for this difference between the two is that Chinese Buddhism suffered a severe setback in 845, when it was nearly completely purged from China, as did Tibetan Buddhism, with the assassination of Langdarma in 841. And the greatest flowering of Chinese Buddhist thought took place after the fall of the Guptas in 495. This 250 year period is arguably the high point in Classical Chinese Buddhism. At the same time, Indian Buddhism was on institutionally shaky ground, recovering from the invasion of the white Huns and under increasing pressure from hostile Hindu Kings; and during the last 100 years of this period, Central Asian Buddhism was being encroached upon by Muslims. By the 11th century, Buddhist text translation into Chinese was increasingly rare.

I would say that while Zhiyi certainly took inspiration from Indian sources, his exegetical methodology is unique, more like Huayen than Sanlun, for example.

FromTheEarth said:
I agree with the last point about methodology as there has never been a ground for proper Buddhist scholasticism in China, and the Chinese commentators struggled to put through their systems eventually (and more eagerly than their Tibetan colleagues when it comes to the problems arising from sutras). But first, let me just defend Zhiyi from the two specific ones you mentioned. Though modern scholars doubt the authorship of Mahāprajñāpāramitopadeśa, that commentary was traditionally attributed to Nagarjuna. Caoimhghín has suggested this above; but it seems clear that Zhiyi's talk about the four siddhantas was directly derived from this commentary.



Malcolm wrote:
I have no reason to doubt Zhi Yi’s sincere faith in the Mahāprajñāpāramitopadeśa. There is zero chance that Nagarjuna composed this text, however. So my point still stands.


FromTheEarth said:
Regarding the fivefold divisions, the specific way he divided the scriptures was surely his own. But the idea that Buddha's teachings contained several stages was a common theme in Mahayana scriptures; and that there was a somehow fivefold structure, a gradual development from Agama sutras to Mahayana sutras then to Prajna sutras then to the Mahaparinirvana sutra, has solid textual basis in the Mahaparinirvana Sutra (scroll 14).

Malcolm wrote:
Indian Buddhists were completely unimpressed with Sutric Descriptions of different schemes and divisions of the sutras into time periods of the Buddha’s life. They betray very little interest in such claims. But Chinese Buddhists were very interested in such schemes, in trying to make sense of this foreign religion. The Tibetan Buddhist ideas about the three turnings [ rejected in Sakya, however] too are entirely dependent on Chinese Yogacara, not the Yogacarabhumi, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 10:05 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
TharpaChodron said:
This is too idealistic for me, especially the suggestion that community services and social workers are going to be replacing police. Working for CPS, we do not detain children without law enforcement present, for good reason. People generally aren’t happy to be told their children need to be removed from their care. They get volatile. They get assaultive. You can’t usually wait a month or two and reason with an abusive parent, unless you don’t mind having possible blood on your hands. Dealing with people who will abuse a child, whether sexually, physically or emotionally, etc who may or may not be under the influence of substances and who may or may not have untreated mental health, is high risk. And guess what, most of them think they were doing just fine until the social worker came and ruined their life, they don’t need help (so they say)...

Overall people need services not “punishment,” but a lot of people will not do the right thing or services by some call to their higher self, they need wrathful means to get them there. I say this all because me and my coworkers often rely on the support of law enforcement when we have to open that door, talk to that irate parent, and defuse a potentially violent situation at 3am. Btw, I’m a social worker because I believe in people’s ability to change and in social justice. I just don’t think defunding the police is the right way to change things.

Malcolm wrote:
Defunding the police does not mean completely removing security professionals from communities or as adjuncts social service workers. It means completely reframing what we understand the role of security professionals to be.

In many places the police presently are the only social services there are. And they are not properly trained for many of the demands placed upon them. On the other hand, they are often funded at levels social service workers cannot even imagine unless they are actively reading the budgets for their own communities.

It means reframing the whole idea of community security so that the police cease behaving like an occupying force in black and brown communities. Compton, CA and Camden, NJ, provide a good model. Hopefully Minneapolis will follow this course.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 9:57 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Crosspost:



tkp67 said:
I believe those are guardsmen.

Malcolm wrote:
No, cops.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 6:31 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Crosspost:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 6:30 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 6:21 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 6:19 AM
Title: Re: Ngagpa-facial hair?
Content:
KonchogUrgyenNyima said:
Does anyone know if there are any hard and fast rules about facial hair in terms of ngagpa teachings and practices? Thanks so much in advance for your time!

Malcolm wrote:
Shave or don't shave, its up to you. It only covers hair on the head, not facial hair, pubic hair, or body hair.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 3:06 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I'm suggesting that the rhetoric of tantric empowerment is that it is often described as starting with the abhiṣeka of the Buddhas of the ten directions that Mahāyāna practitioners are generally believed to receive at the 10th bhūmi and that the maṇḍala wherein it takes place is the akaniṣṭa ghanavyūha. I could be wrong though.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, the principle is certainly embraced, but the point is that empowerment is a special method taught by the Buddha for causing someone to ascend through the ten or 13 bhumis in the course of a single empowerment. If they fail to do that, then there is sadhana practices.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Bristollad said:
Just to add an interesting point:  in the traditional Tibetan narrative, Shakyamuni Buddha is said to have not entered the Vajrayana path until he was a bodhisattva on the 10th Bhumi.

Caoimhghín said:
Of course. That's where Tantra starts, isn't it? "You fuse the path with the result," is the usual slogan.

Malcolm wrote:
This also in an Indian narrative. Not Tibetan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 12:59 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
tkp67 said:
Have you ever told a cop you are familiar with chain of command and internal affairs and they change their tune?

Malcolm wrote:
I try to avoid encountering the police as much as possible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 12:58 AM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
What is the distinction between non-afflicted ignorance and afflictive ignorance?

Grigoris said:
Wait, what?  Non-afflicted ignorance?  Is that even a thing?  Isn't ignorance to basic affliction which other's arise from?

Or do you mean like ignorance of calculus (for example), as opposed to ignorance of the Four Noble Truths?

Malcolm wrote:
Non-afflictive ignorance, as the treatise states, is the ignorance experienced by śrāvaka arhats and pratyekabuddhas. They are liberated, but they are not omniscient about the entire path to buddhahood. Their lack of omniscience however, that is, their nonafflictive ignorance, is not a cause for them to take rebirth in samsara.

The first verse's commentary is an indication that perhaps Vasubandhu was a Mahāyāni from the beginning, or had already begun to embrace Mahāyāna by the time he wrote the commentary to the root verses.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 12:53 AM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club
Content:
Queequeg said:
Malcolm, to be clear - is it your suggestion that we reign in our first reading and stick with the general introduction, taking the time to unpack as much as we can? This would be, as originally proposed, pp. 55-58 in Pruden.

Malcolm wrote:
I am suggesting that one really takes the time to unpack the meaning of the first three verses. An entire commentary could be written on them alone.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 12:43 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:



Tiago Simões said:
Where has the far left been plaquing?
I'm still waiting... Are they hiding under my bed?

Modus.Ponens said:
Left wing identitarianism has been plaguing our societies for almost a decade now. If we count radical feminism, it's been for a much longer time, since notorious radical feminists have been advocating for the extermination of men, total or partial, or advocating that men should be kept in detention camps. Or advocating for less abominable things like defining every sex act as rape and thus every man as a rapist.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh for lord's sake. This is all deliberate hyperbole on the part of people like the late Andrea Dworkin...I grew up around radical lesbian feminists because my mom was a second wave feminist back in the early 70's, and sure, some of them were and are separatists. So what?

Modus.Ponens said:
In the 2010s people have been getting cancelled for transgressions against the politically correct identitarian dogma, whether the transgressions are real or imagined. There are thousands of cases like this.

Malcolm wrote:
You don't help your case with hyperbolic exaggerations.

Modus.Ponens said:
Even a Nobel laureate has been fired, without being heard by his University, despite the fact that the accusations distorted the facts beyond recognition.

Malcolm wrote:
Who and why?

Modus.Ponens said:
One Netflix higher up was fired because he said in a meeting that people at Netflix shouldn't say the word N..... to refer to black people. Since he said the actual word in his admonition he was fired.

Malcolm wrote:
The man had a history of using the word in inappropriate situations to black people. It happened more than once. In a word: clueless. Hence, fired.

Modus.Ponens said:
Even a black janitor, who was being repeatedly called N by a black student was fired for telling the student he shouldn't use the word N.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that was stupid, because of a poorly written school policy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 9th, 2020 at 12:31 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
PeterC said:
And what would that look like, specifically?

Malcolm wrote:
Disarm, dismantle, reframe "policing" as public safety, retrain the retrainable, fire the rest. Decriminalize all drugs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
tkp67 said:
The only way to change it is to disrupt the existing corruption and help all involved repurposed for a more harmonious populous. Because this is such a dense varied place this will have to occur on many levels. It is not beyond our capacity.

PeterC said:
And what would that look like, specifically?

Malcolm wrote:
You had to ask, didn't you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
tkp67 said:
In the EA tradition there seems to be a reverence for perfection in accordance to time and place. As impermanence would have it teachings themselves are rightfully subject to the same. As our nature would have it this canon of teachings has a cause (shakyamuni) and an effect (all of us). As I understand it the EA tradition is about the recognition of all beings within that chain of dependency that brought the teachings from cause to effect and their timely perfection.

In my ordinary mortal mind I see everything represented here still have a related dependency.

Malcolm wrote:
I have no idea what you are trying to say.

tkp67 said:
It happens.

Malcolm wrote:
Mostly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 11:09 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
tkp67 said:
In the EA tradition there seems to be a reverence for perfection in accordance to time and place. As impermanence would have it teachings themselves are rightfully subject to the same. As our nature would have it this canon of teachings has a cause (shakyamuni) and an effect (all of us). As I understand it the EA tradition is about the recognition of all beings within that chain of dependency that brought the teachings from cause to effect and their timely perfection.

In my ordinary mortal mind I see everything represented here still have a related dependency.

Malcolm wrote:
I have no idea what you are trying to say.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 9:56 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Modus.Ponens said:
No, I'm just opposing the far left...

Malcolm wrote:
You and Don Quixote.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 8:17 PM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
What is the distinction between non-afflicted ignorance and afflictive ignorance?

Grigoris said:
Wait, what?  Non-afflicted ignorance?  Is that even a thing?  Isn't ignorance to basic affliction which other's arise from?

Or do you mean like ignorance of calculus (for example), as opposed to ignorance of the Four Noble Truths?

Malcolm wrote:
As I said, there is a lot more up to unpack in the first three verse than one might realize.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 8:15 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Dan74 said:
I think every major city that I've visited had a lot of armed police on the streets in central areas at least. This was usually brought in in response to a spate in violent crime and had popular support. Do folks here believe having less police patrolling the cities or disarming them won't have an appreciable effect on violent crime?

Melbourne is positively awash with cops. A left-wing government has not reduced Victoria's police presence, AFAIK.

TBH, I would not want to be a cop in the US right now. I suspect most of them actually serve their communities well, do really tough work for little pay and are now looked upon as the enemy. Seems to me what is needed is not to punish all the cops, but a really good look at the culture, policing priorities, developing closer relations with the communities, etc practical measures, not symbolic ones.

Malcolm wrote:
When I visited London, I only saw armed policeman around parliament. Otherwise, all the police were unarmed.

Manjushri said:
I can say by my own experience that armed policemen is pretty common in England at least. Specially around transport stations, large streets and markets, but I've seen them pretty much everywhere, just doing regular patrol.

Malcolm wrote:
Transport cops in England are an exception. But in general, most police in England are unarmed. Most policeman in England do not want to carry guns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 8:05 PM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
FromTheEarth said:
But I just feel the underlying authenticity thesis/implication is always troubling me, whether it is meant to say only the Theravada is the genuine, authentic Buddhism, or the Tibetan tradition is, while both apparently underwent many changes and adaptions.

Malcolm wrote:
No, that is not the point. Of course Tibetans, like the Chinese, have doctrinal concerns removed from what Indian Mahāyāna Buddhists cared about. But the main difference between Tibetan and Chinese Buddhist exegesis is a concern for how well a given position might comport with Indian masters, while the same cannot be generally found to be a concern with Sino-Japanese Buddhist exegesis in general, barring Xuantsang.

FromTheEarth said:
Well, this actually leads back to the previous point I made, which is that Indian Mahayana is not equivalent to, say, a scholastic part of its, represented by the so-called "Indian masters" and their works, while such group of masters seems also highly selective. I would be happy to accept a statement such like the Tibetans were more concerned with "how well a given position might comport with" certain Indian masters they favored or happened to be more popular; while a fairly informed picture of ancient Indian Mahayana, even just the intellectual, scholastic dimension of it, must include a proper presentation of Yogacara and some other branches, whose existence again seems better to be found in the East Asian canons and traditions.

Also, I would like to argue, whomever you may have in mind when referring to the "Indian masters," a large of number of them should be dated later than the founders of several dominant Chinese Buddhist schools (here I limit these schools to the doctrine-based such as Tiantai, Huayan, Sanlun etc., for Chan/Zen and Pureland masters seemed less interested in doing comprehensive exegetical work). To my knowledge, except for Huayan, all other doctrinally-oriented schools as such fit the description of caring about how their interpretations "comport with Indian masters" at their disposal (you would found abundant reference to Nagarjuna, Asanga, and Vasubandhu's works in Zhiyi's and Jizang's works), as did the Tibetans. And, one may argue, the Chinese Buddhist scholars tried even harder to make their positions aligned with sutras and other Indian commentaries of a less doctrinally-dense genre, i.e., upadeśa texts. And, any reasonable conception of ancient Indian Mahayana must include those texts also.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s definitely true that the snapshot of Indian Buddhism that Tibetans took was later than the largely  Central-Asian filtered Buddhism which had the most influence on Chinese Buddhism.  But, for  example, Zi yi’s interpretation of the four siddhantas owes nothing observable to Indian Buddhism, nor his fivefold division of Buddhist texts, etc. I personally think part of the reason for this difference between the two is that Chinese Buddhism suffered a severe setback in 845, when it was nearly completely purged from China, as did Tibetan Buddhism, with the assassination of Langdarma in 841. And the greatest flowering of Chinese Buddhist thought took place after the fall of the Guptas in 495. This 250 year period is arguably the high point in Classical Chinese Buddhism. At the same time, Indian Buddhism was on institutionally shaky ground, recovering from the invasion of the white Huns and under increasing pressure from hostile Hindu Kings; and during the last 100 years of this period, Central Asian Buddhism was being encroached upon by Muslims. By the 11th century, Buddhist text translation into Chinese was increasingly rare.

I would say that while Zhiyi certainly took inspiration from Indian sources, his exegetical methodology is unique, more like Huayen than Sanlun, for example.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 7:31 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:



Tiago Simões said:
Where has the far left been plaquing?

Grigoris said:
He means that Antifa is to blame for everything wrong in this world.

Middle Class white guys will inevitably believe that Fascism is preferable to revolutionary change, because they think that if they keep their head down, blend in with the crowd and "mind their own business", chances are they will come through it unscathed and with most of their wealth and power intact.

That is what this guy thought too.

Martin Niemöller.jpg




Like many others he found out (the hard way) that he was wrong.

But this is not an option for Black people, Latinos, LGBT people, etc...

Modus fails to understand this (of course).

Modus.Ponens said:
I would have been exterminated by the nazis because of my "identity".

How privileged do you think I really am? Why do you think white people inevitably prefer fascism? How much are you assuming about my character based on my skin color? Do you know what that's called?

Malcolm wrote:
The evidence for Greg’s assertion is pretty overwhelming.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 7:27 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Dan74 said:
I think every major city that I've visited had a lot of armed police on the streets in central areas at least. This was usually brought in in response to a spate in violent crime and had popular support. Do folks here believe having less police patrolling the cities or disarming them won't have an appreciable effect on violent crime?

Melbourne is positively awash with cops. A left-wing government has not reduced Victoria's police presence, AFAIK.

TBH, I would not want to be a cop in the US right now. I suspect most of them actually serve their communities well, do really tough work for little pay and are now looked upon as the enemy. Seems to me what is needed is not to punish all the cops, but a really good look at the culture, policing priorities, developing closer relations with the communities, etc practical measures, not symbolic ones.

Malcolm wrote:
When I visited London, I only saw armed policeman around parliament. Otherwise, all the police were unarmed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 7:25 PM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Disarm them as well.

DNS said:
What if they are responding to a mass shooting event?

Tasers are good (and should be used instead in many incidents), but they have a very short range (about 20 feet or so max) and are difficult to reload quickly.

Malcolm wrote:
Mass shooting events are pretty rare, though they get a lot of press. As I Said, we’ll figure it out, because our approach to public safety isn’t insuring public safety, but rather the opposite.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 10:54 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Queequeg said:
The argument goes - the Police do too much that they are not trained for, and can't be practically trained for. Those functions should be segregated out to other civil servants who are trained to handle them. For instance - homeless interventions: the police should not be wasting their time with what is essentially social work. This should be handled by social workers specifically trained and equipped, and the resources and protocols to deal with individuals who are homeless. There's a host of things police do that really could be done by others.

DNS said:
Reducing the funding is one thing, but I see several people and demonstrators calling for abolishing them altogether. How would that even work? People need to be able to call police for home invasions, burglaries, robberies, domestic violence, etc. Who would they call? Not everyone is armed or trained in CQC or tae-kwon-do or marskmanship to be able to defend themselves.

Malcolm wrote:
Don’t worry, we’ll figure it out.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 10:24 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:



Modus.Ponens said:
I can't find that specific result at the moment, but it's roughly the same: half downards, a bit to the left.

Caoimhghín said:
I'm not sure what you mean here. Sorry. IMO, it's not the same result you should be trying to find, but rather the same quiz. Did you take it? Malcolm had a link to it in the post where he showed his results.

We could also compare specific answers to specific questions on it, or even share our answers. It might be germane to the conversation. I'm doing the quiz myself at present.

Modus.Ponens said:
Yes. I do the test that Malcolm linked about once a year. And I consistently get similar results. Half way/a third downwards. And somewhat to the left. I tried to find the result, but only found this one.

Malcolm wrote:
I am illiberal about the destruction of the environment because we have only one planet, and biodiversity must be preserved. I am not into identity politics at all. I do however detest police violence targeted at minorities due to both explicit and implicit policies implemented by police departments. For example, Standing Rock. I also take our history of racism and genocide into consideration when evaluating present events.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 10:08 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
...You do realize he had dinner several times a week at the Emerson's house, which was about a mile and a half walk from his cabin; which itself, as luck would have it, is about three hundred feet from the railroad, even then?...

yagmort said:
yep i do. that was years ago, but if i remember correctly he states these things in the book, so its obvious to a reader that Walden was not an experiment in social isolation.


Malcolm wrote:
Most people who achieve realization from Dzogchen do so in the bardo of dharmatā. Only the best of best obtain rainbow body in this life or have small rainbow body.

yagmort said:
i see. well, you mentioned there were plenty of hidden dzogchen practitioners in tibet, who attained rainbow body while working regular jobs specifically, so i thought you got some names. i would really like to know names, if that is possible. perhaps a short biography, i always find namthars very inspiring.

Malcolm wrote:
There have been, ChNN mentions this more than once.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 10:01 AM
Title: Re: After the Protests: Defund the Police
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Disarm them as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 4:58 AM
Title: Re: summer retreat at palyul
Content:
conebeckham said:
Trowo Roza=a form of Gyalwa Gyamtso?

Malcolm wrote:
Wrathful Corpse eater? Somehow I don't think so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 4:56 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Modus.Ponens said:
Because the far left is incompatible with constitutional democracy. And given that constitutional democracy is better than any other society, past or present, I'm not willing to give an inch further to the far left.

Caoimhghín said:
Then that will just be a self-fulfilling prophecy, and you will never liberate yourself from your paranoia about the "far left." Fact of the matter is that you're maybe talking to perhaps two people here who could be considered far left, and neither of them is far left enough for it to compromise their commitment to democracy. Has Malcolm or Grigoris ever suggested someone go personally kill Donald Trump? No. That would be the real extreme left, the extreme left that the FBI and CIA deal with. What people have suggested is that Donald Trump ought be voted out and that those who support them cannot self-reflect enough to recognize that their own views are infected with racism.

What you seem to be doing is arguing from a deeply entrenched unmoving position, and repeating the same slogans from the safety of that position, i.e. "Far Left is incompatible with constitutional democracy." Because you don't seem to be too interested in communicating, I think that what you might actually be doing is virtue-signalling to your right-wing companions on DhammaWheel and DWE.

Malcolm wrote:
I rate very heavily in the left libertarian scale here:



https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Curious about where old Modus would rate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 3:47 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 3:46 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
That definition is an Indian Buddhist definition, not Tibetan.

Astus said:
Originally might be so, but even there postulated only by Tantrikas, however, currently it exists only in Tibetan Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, if it is originally so, then it is in Indian Buddhist definition still.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 3:06 AM
Title: Re: Claim: Buddha Shakyamuni was a student/emanation of Bon Buddha?
Content:
mutsuk said:
OK, thanks for that. It's really surprising to read Ramble's blurb as he is generally better informed (and imo quite good at what he does).

Malcolm wrote:
On another note, I am sure you have read some of Daniel Bernousky's work. Really excellent, I have to say.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
Many people find the bit more step by step approach bit better. Reciting lots of texts and mantras can open the door to jsut integrating for many of us.

Malcolm wrote:
Many people do not know there are other approaches which accomplish the same things more effectively, and can be done no matter what other things they are doing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 3:03 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:


heart said:
I personally feel that it is a lot easier to integrate and go to the essence while doing recitation.

Malcolm wrote:
Ok. But you can't be reciting complicated sadhana at work, etc. So you need different methods such ati guru yoga, just to mention one, and so on. That is the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 3:01 AM
Title: Re: summer retreat at palyul
Content:



pema tsultrim said:
Malcom, do you mean that there is a mantra accumulation requirement as a part of the Namcho tsa lung instructions, or that one must complete before one will be allowed to receive the Namcho Tsa Lung instructions in the Palyul NY or Namdroling 40 day retreat? If the latter, are you referring to the accumulation of Om Mani Peme Hung from the Avaloiteshvara in the Six Realms sadhana?

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, as I understood it at the time, you have to complete Trowa Roza beforehand.

pema tsultrim said:
Thanks for clarifying, Malcom. Is it okay if I ask when and where you were able to receive those precious teachings?

Malcolm wrote:
I didn't, but I was there in the first year retreat with Penor Rinpoche. I was unable to return, for various reasons. Obstacles.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 2:58 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 2:54 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: summer retreat at palyul
Content:
pema tsultrim said:
I do not believe there is a mantra accumulation prerequisite.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, there is.

pema tsultrim said:
Malcom, do you mean that there is a mantra accumulation requirement as a part of the Namcho tsa lung instructions, or that one must complete before one will be allowed to receive the Namcho Tsa Lung instructions in the Palyul NY or Namdroling 40 day retreat? If the latter, are you referring to the accumulation of Om Mani Peme Hung from the Avaloiteshvara in the Six Realms sadhana?

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, as I understood it at the time, you have to complete Trowa Roza beforehand.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 2:32 AM
Title: Re: Claim: Buddha Shakyamuni was a student/emanation of Bon Buddha?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I am amazed that he was ever given any credit in the academy at all.

mutsuk said:
Interesting. Who is giving him credit? I'm curious, as I try to read, to the best of my abilities, whatever academic work is published on Bon, and I've not seen Ermakov quoted anywhere by the "big names" (Karmay, Blondeau, Kvaerne, and al.) in Bon so far. His approach is outdated, looks like pre-1960s "oriental studies" and his lack of knowledge of classical tibetan is a big problem...not to mention that he does not read cursive (when 95% of Bon texts are in cursive...).

Malcolm wrote:
Supposedly he was mentored by Charles Ramble, according to his own account:
"I then went on to study Tibetan at Oxford University with Prof. Charles Ramble (2009-2010) becoming his research assiatant and, as well as having articles published in both English and Russian, has been invited to lecture in Oxford, London, St. Petersburg, Vilnius, Cagliari, Budapest etc. In 2011 I was invited to speak at 'Bon, Shangshung, and Early Tibet' conference where I delivered a paper 'Bön as a multifaceted phenomenon: looking beyond Tibet to the cultural and religious traditions of Eurasia' which since has been published as a multimedia presentation on Foundation for the Preservation of Yungdrung Bön's website and can also be watched in the Video section of this Author Page.

You have to read Ramble's blurb to believe it:
Many writers have sought to establish a link between the Bön religion of Tibet and the shamanic traditions of Siberia. These attempts are largely unsystematic and piecemeal, and the results have been unconvincing. This remarkable book is the most thorough attempt to date to explore these connections. On the basis of wide-ranging scholarship as well as a long and close association with the most eminent exponents of the traditions he explores, the author presents the richness of Tibetan Bön and Buryatian Bө Murgel, discerning beneath the distinctive features of these systems a matrix of beliefs and practices in which they have their origins. Written from an "emic" perspective of sympathy with the tenets of Bön and Bө Murgel, this fascinating and provocative book is sure to stimulate interest and debate concerning the religious heritage of Inner Asia.'


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 2:27 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Modus.Ponens said:
That's a fair objection, even if I don't totally agree with it. But then we have to return to the key question: what are the ideological borders between center left and far left?

Malcolm wrote:
You'll have to ask the people making up these distinctions.

Modus.Ponens said:
Is Maoism as acceptable as social democracy or as social liberalism?

Malcolm wrote:
Maoism is illiberal and antidemocratic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 2:12 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
yagmort said:
that is all true, but i think it is up to westerners to change their lifestyle so it can allow them to have more quality time with a teacher. i've seen western guys who completed 3 years retreat in india or nepal, so it's not impossible. i perceive vajrayana/dzogchen as a very demanding undertaking, personally i don't believe in liberation in slippers.. how far can you get with a few hours of practice a day at most, while your mind is busy with mundane things the rest of a day?

Malcolm wrote:
That really depends on what you think practice entails. If you think it entails reciting lots of texts and mantras all day long, well, reciting lots of mantras and texts all day long is demanding. But that is not the essence of Dzogchen practice.


yagmort said:
i can not vote for others but my impression is that a buddhist westerner has to find a way to be a full-time practitioner. if it's not possible because of family or other responsibilities there is only so much you can do and seeing your teacher everyday not gonna change your chances for liberation that much.

Malcolm wrote:
If one understands how to integrate, one can practice all day long in any circumstance. It is all just a matter of understanding how to integrate. For example, there is no limit to the number of times one can practice guru yoga in a day, whether one is wearing, slippers, shoes, or sandals.

heart said:
I completely fine with the need to integrate, however I don't see why you can't do that while "reciting lots of texts and mantras all day long"?

Malcolm wrote:
If you like reciting lots of texts and mantras, all day long, that is fine. That was not not my point though. The main point is to go to the essence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 2:09 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
It doesn't need to be some intentional conspiracy (I don't think it is), but it is definitely real.

Malcolm wrote:
That sort of depends on where you live. North Carolina? Most def. WA? Probably not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 1:47 AM
Title: Re: Claim: Buddha Shakyamuni was a student/emanation of Bon Buddha?
Content:
mutsuk said:
No, obviously not. Bon's narrative about its existence in pre-dynastic and dynastic Tibet is a fantasy elaborated backwards in order to compete (on historical, philosophical, and doctrinal grounds, etc.) with the Nyingma and the newer schools.

Belllezza's paper is here :
http://himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/collections/journals/ret/pdf/ret_29_07.pdf

See also on TBRC : https://www.tbrc.org/#!rid=W8LS66509.

Malcolm wrote:
On a whim, I recently purchased Ermakov's book. I was appalled at a) how poorly it was manufactured b) how messily organized it was, and c) how replete it was with discredited theories about an arctic ancestral homeland for Indo-Europeans, etc. I am amazed that he was ever given any credit in the academy at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club
Content:



Queequeg said:
Its seems sangpo takes 25 pages to translated what is 10 pages in Pruden. I'm guessing Sangpo uses footnotes, whereas Pruden uses endnotes, as being part of it? Are Sangpo's footnotes worth it? Footnotes are often where you find the juicy stuff.

Malcolm wrote:
The footnotes are largely a distraction to the text. They are relevant mainly for scholars, but not practitioners.

Queequeg said:
You might find yourself leaned on as an interactive footnote generator. よろしくおねがいいたします。


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 1:12 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 1:01 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Modus.Ponens said:
That's a fair objection, even if I don't totally agree with it. But then we have to return to the key question: what are the ideological borders between center left and far left?

Malcolm wrote:
You'll have to ask the people making up these distinctions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 12:59 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:


Ceisiwr said:
As Buddhists we are taught to obey the law of the land, even if that law is discriminatory...

Malcolm wrote:
Nonsense.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 12:56 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
FromTheEarth said:
But I just feel the underlying authenticity thesis/implication is always troubling me, whether it is meant to say only the Theravada is the genuine, authentic Buddhism, or the Tibetan tradition is, while both apparently underwent many changes and adaptions.

Malcolm wrote:
No, that is not the point. Of course Tibetans, like the Chinese, have doctrinal concerns removed from what Indian Mahāyāna Buddhists cared about. But the main difference between Tibetan and Chinese Buddhist exegesis is a concern for how well a given position might comport with Indian masters, while the same cannot be generally found to be a concern with Sino-Japanese Buddhist exegesis in general, barring Xuantsang.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 12:52 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Yeah, Shingon has it too.

It's kind of like if Tendai practitioners went around insisting that everyone not practicing Tendai Buddhism was on one of the 40-something preparatory bhūmis. No one else believes in 50+ bhūmis. No one else practices "on" those bhūmis.

jake said:
Shingon has what?

Caoimhghín said:
A division between esoteric and non-esoteric aspects of practice. The terms I see used in translation by Tibetans often are "common" and "uncommon."

Malcolm wrote:
Can also be translated as "shared" [sādhāraṇa, thun mong] and "unshared" [asādhāraṇa, thun mong ma yin].


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Dan74 said:
Who actually practices Sutrayana, as understood by the Tibetan Buddhists?

Könchok Thrinley said:
Those who do not follow tantric teachings and methods. Zennies, theravadins, purelanders, etc.

Astus said:
Sutrayana, as understood in Tibetan Buddhism, exists only in Tibetan Buddhism, and as such, only Tibetan Buddhists could be sutrayana followers, as it is their view of Mahayana. Those who do not subscribe to the Tibetan interpretation of sutrayana naturally cannot follow it either.

Malcolm wrote:
That definition is an Indian Buddhist definition, not Tibetan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 12:47 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:



Dan74 said:
Who actually practices Sutrayana, as understood by the Tibetan Buddhists?

Könchok Thrinley said:
Those who do not follow tantric teachings and methods. Zennies, theravadins, purelanders, etc.

Dan74 said:
Zennies certainly don't believe themselves to be practicing sutrayana - see Meido Roshi's many replies on this. Edit: on a quick search, here's is one relevant example: https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29208

From Bodhidharma's "beyond words and letters...", to the many unique methods, to continue to claim that Zen is sutrayana is just sectarian polemics. Unless, of course by sutrayana, one defines anything other than tantra. Then it's ok.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it's isn't sectarian polemics at all. There are many upadesá lineages in common Mahāyāna, Chan/Zen is one of those.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 12:40 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
We do not live in a largely cash-free agrarian society where practitioners are allowed to live for years without working. We live in a capitalist society where most people's main māra is named "Bill." Moreover, there are plenty examples in Tibet of ordinary people, hidden dzogchen practitioners, who attained rainbow body, while working regular jobs, etc...

yagmort said:
i am not arguing here. my view is very limited. i wonder though how is it possible to achieve liberation, a rainbow body even, without liberating from this mara "Bill"? perhaps i am holding to Kropotkin anarchism somewhere deep inside, but i do perceive this capitalist society as counter conducive anything spiritual. so even without buddhist goals i'd rather have Henry Thoreau Walden lifestyle.

Malcolm wrote:
You do realize he had dinner several times a week at the Emerson's house, which was about a mile and a half walk from his cabin; which itself, as luck would have it, is about three hundred feet from the railroad, even then?

yagmort said:
anyway, i am happy to know about hidden dzogchen practitioners, who attained rainbow body, while working regular jobs. could you please tell me some names? i'd like to learn more, that's inspiring.

Malcolm wrote:
Most people who achieve realization from Dzogchen do so in the bardo of dharmatā. Only the best of best obtain rainbow body in this life or have small rainbow body.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 8th, 2020 at 12:00 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
...But that is not the essence of Dzogchen practice.
...
It is all just a matter of understanding how to integrate...

yagmort said:
sure, i merely shared my current opinion, however deluded/immature it may be. but i also keep in mind examples of many masters, including Chatral Rinpoche, Dudjom Rinpoche or Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, all of whom done long retreats. i assume that matter of understanding how to integrate does require some secluded time dedicated to practice? otherwise why would so many dzogchen masters stay in retreats, some of them with decades under their belt?

Malcolm wrote:
We do not live in a largely cash-free agrarian society where practitioners are allowed to live for years without working. We live in a capitalist society where most people's main māra is named "Bill." Moreover, there are plenty examples in Tibet of ordinary people, hidden dzogchen practitioners, who attained rainbow body, while working regular jobs, etc. By placing too much emphasis on famous masters, we miss the point that it is very possible to integrate practice into our lives and achieve the supreme result without spending years in some cave. But some people like caves.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 11:43 PM
Title: Re: Mamo'i Khrugkong and Digshag
Content:
cjdevries said:
Does anyone know about the Mamo'i Khrugkong [confession] ceremony?  If so, what does this entail?

Also, What is the Digshag ceremony and what does that entail?

Malcolm wrote:
Confession of misdeeds is basic to the seven limb prayer arrangement, it is limb two. Of course, there are many long prayers concerning this as well.

Mamo khrug kong, literally, "appeasing the disturbed mothers," is an apology to the mamos for disturbing the world with careless behavior, such as practitioners not keeping their samayas, human activities of polluting the world, fighting wars, etc., all actions that harm and disturb the world and its beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 11:12 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:



Crazywisdom said:
In.India, creation stage was.ngondro. also Vimalamitra was written to do a lot of rushen. Rushen is real.yoga. fricken great dharma very simple

PeterC said:
Never said it wasn’t. But its always interesting how resistant people are when a lama wants them to do a few prostrations and mandala offering. Feels like they feel it’s beneath them.

Crazywisdom said:
And I will add that by my logic, what makes the most sense is a traditional empowerment and mantra practice for development and yoga instructions and meditation to advance.

Malcolm wrote:
We all have to decide for ourselves what kind of a path we are going to follow. No one can decide that for us, not even our gurus.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club
Content:
Queequeg said:
Aside - that section of the text in Pruden is much shorter than the Sangpo translation. Makes me curious about all those notes in there. Feeling like this might have to be moved up the wishlist.

jake said:
Sangpo has essentially three introductions before starting the text which adds to it's length. The Kosa proper doesn't begin until page 203 in the Sangpo. I've been reading Pruden but started on Sangpo last night, still adjusting to the text as it uses a lot of fonts, etc. so the layout is a bit odd for me at present.

Queequeg said:
Its seems sangpo takes 25 pages to translated what is 10 pages in Pruden. I'm guessing Sangpo uses footnotes, whereas Pruden uses endnotes, as being part of it? Are Sangpo's footnotes worth it? Footnotes are often where you find the juicy stuff.

Malcolm wrote:
The footnotes are largely a distraction to the text. They are relevant mainly for scholars, but not practitioners.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 11:06 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
yagmort said:
that is all true, but i think it is up to westerners to change their lifestyle so it can allow them to have more quality time with a teacher. i've seen western guys who completed 3 years retreat in india or nepal, so it's not impossible. i perceive vajrayana/dzogchen as a very demanding undertaking, personally i don't believe in liberation in slippers.. how far can you get with a few hours of practice a day at most, while your mind is busy with mundane things the rest of a day?

Malcolm wrote:
That really depends on what you think practice entails. If you think it entails reciting lots of texts and mantras all day long, well, reciting lots of mantras and texts all day long is demanding. But that is not the essence of Dzogchen practice.


yagmort said:
i can not vote for others but my impression is that a buddhist westerner has to find a way to be a full-time practitioner. if it's not possible because of family or other responsibilities there is only so much you can do and seeing your teacher everyday not gonna change your chances for liberation that much.

Malcolm wrote:
If one understands how to integrate, one can practice all day long in any circumstance. It is all just a matter of understanding how to integrate. For example, there is no limit to the number of times one can practice guru yoga in a day, whether one is wearing, slippers, shoes, or sandals.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:



Könchok Thrinley said:
Oh, wow. Did it help?

Kunzang Tobgyal said:
It gave me a really solid grounding in shamatha and vipashyana, which definitely helped in all practices afterwords. Also, just in and of themselves, shamatha and vipashyana are powerful methods for understanding the functioning of one’s mind.

Simon E. said:
This.
I don’t want to be all “in my day blah blah blah” but it is a fact that not so long ago many, probably most, Lamas insisted on a basic groundwork in shamatha and vipashyana before considering further teachings.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but back in the day, lamas were not teachings Dzogchen general. The serious teaching of Dzogchen in the West begins with Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, in 1976. He prepared students by teaching them Yantra Yoga first.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 10:58 PM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club
Content:
Queequeg said:
Sorry - I saw the page numbers in the 200s and got confused. Was meaning to look at the text (Pruden) and figure out what you were proposing. Now I understand. So Greg is proposing Chapter One - from the intro up through the Rupa Skandha section.

In Pruden that's pp. 55-66.

That seems reasonable. I'd hesitate to go more than that because I imagine there is a lot to unpack even in just those few pages.

Aside - that section of the text in Pruden is much shorter than the Sangpo translation. Makes me curious about all those notes in there. Feeling like this might have to be moved up the wishlist.

Malcolm wrote:
People really need to integrate what Vasubandhu has to say about prajñā. So by way of topics for reflection:

What is the distinction between non-afflicted ignorance and afflictive ignorance?
Why does this matter?
Reflect on the meaning of prajñā.
What is the distinction between pure and impure prajñā?
Why can impure dharmas only be extinguished by prajñā?

The first three verses should be well anchored before continuing on to verse four. These three verses should serve as the basis for further discussion before moving on to verse 4, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 10:46 AM
Title: Re: summer retreat at palyul
Content:
pema tsultrim said:
I do not believe there is a mantra accumulation prerequisite.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, there is.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 10:02 AM
Title: Re: Mayor of DC renames street BLM Plaza
Content:
krish5 said:
Thank you Dear Malcolm, for your sincere reply and sharing. I get what you are suggesting and it is fair and reasonable. Thanks again.

p.s. - for whatever it is worth, a family member of mine participated in a protest march yesterday, she supports "Black Lives Matter". So not everyone in my family is a Fox News, Trumpian

Malcolm wrote:
You should hang out with that family member more.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 9:55 AM
Title: Re: Mayor of DC renames street BLM Plaza
Content:
krish5 said:
Malcolm, because i like you, i will answer you. But please answer me in return regarding Candace Owens, if possible, so i can get a idea what you think of her or anyone else on here, i am interested, btw.

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t know her, so I cannot comment on her personality, so like and dislike does not enter into it. But I thought her comment about George Floyd was extremely tone deaf, and catered to white racism.

krish5 said:
I am not a very educated man, formally. Surprise, surprise People have used this against me before. So, you are correct, i have not read any of the books or literature you have mentioned. I mostly stick to reading Buddhism and other spiritual teachings and material. I am not well informed on politics, current events, history, etc. But, i intuit and sense and feel things easily. So i just know things easily. I can be misled however, at times, by my heart, feeling, but overall it has steered me well in life.

Malcolm wrote:
It is our obligation, as members of a Democracy, to educate ourselves about these worldly things.

Lynchings happen in this country because someone just knows in their heart that some black person, Latino, or native person did something wrong, even if there is no evidence for it. Donald Trump has lead this country into chaos, because like you, he does not read anything-other than praise of himself, of course- and just Intuits, senses, and feels things easily (more than the generals, scientists, and doctors). Forgive me for not being very sympathetic to such an approach to life if it isn’t predicated on some cognitive handicap, such as dyslexia. And even here, this is quite superable, so is not really an adequate excuse for being poorly informed.

If you want someone like me to take someone like you seriously, you are going to have to show that your spirituality isn’t just some f@#king bullshit, romantic, escapist fantasy. Maybe a little more reading and a little less football and Fox News is in order.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 9:28 AM
Title: Re: Mayor of DC renames street BLM Plaza
Content:
krish5 said:
If i am ignorant and not understanding these things, that is one thing, but you arent helping me to see any different. If you are going to talk to me, talk to me, dont just answer in dismissive tones. How can i learn or change my ways, if i dont know any better. I listen to them and see truth.  I asked about Candance Owens, Burgess Owens, etc i would like to know from your experience if they have any value or not, if they are telling the truth or not, etc?

Malcolm wrote:
All I can tell you is that you need to educate yourself. Tell me. Who is most recent black intellectual whose works you’ve read? How about a native historian writing from a native perspective? When’s the last time you read a peer-reviewed tome on economics of historical import? Or a book concerned with issues of justice? How about a book concerning the Pre-Colombian era, or a book about the agricultural history of the United States? Huh? Well? Waiting.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 9:12 AM
Title: Re: Mayor of DC renames street BLM Plaza
Content:
krish5 said:
I just looked up, Tucker Carlson, he worked for years at CNN, and then at MSNBC before joining Fox. I see nothing wrong with him.

And then i looked up Burgess Owens. The guy makes perfect sense to me, i dont get your hostility and lack of openness to these people.

You probably dont like Candace Owens either, who is making a hell of a lot of sense to me and millions of others.

Malcolm wrote:
Just pathetic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 8:58 AM
Title: Re: Mayor of DC renames street BLM Plaza
Content:
krish5 said:
"You have no shame at all. And you should be deeply ashamed of yourself for giving such people even a smidgeon of an iota or credibility."

You didnt answer me, but that is fine. I see you arent interested in a sincere, serious discussion. It is best you probably just ignore my posts from now on.

I strongly disagree with what you said and even though i am not of the right, although at this point so sickened by the left, that i might lean that way. I am open to what they have to say and where truth is said, whatever form it comes in, i stand by it, with truth.

Malcolm wrote:
You wouldn’t know the truth if it f#@kin ran you over dude, as far as I can tell. And you can totally forget about me ignoring your posts. That’s not happening.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 8:56 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:
krish5 said:
If i see the error of my ways, see i am the problem, of course, i will admit it and change. That is what any sane person would do.

Malcolm wrote:
Apparently he is sane. I have doubts about you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 8:48 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:
krish5 said:
" It’s privileged motherf#@ckers like you that are the problem with this country."

Thats exactly what they said to Drew Brees!

Malcolm wrote:
And he agreed, duh. Why don’t you?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 8:47 AM
Title: Re: Mayor of DC renames street BLM Plaza
Content:
krish5 said:
"Tucker.Carlson.is.a.racist.white.supremicist"

I am not saying he is not, i dont know, i dont know him. But he had on the other night, a black man, Burgess Owens, who condemned what they did to Drew Brees. He seemed to get along with and agree with Tucker. What am i missing here?

Malcolm wrote:
You have no shame at all. And you should be deeply ashamed of yourself for giving such people even a smidgeon of an iota or credibility.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 8:43 AM
Title: Re: Mayor of DC renames street BLM Plaza
Content:
krish5 said:
"Typical trumpian response. You are rotting your brain on Fox News."

I ask in all sincerity, you dont think Fox has any newsworthy, correct information? The one i watched and liked the last few nights was with Tucker Carlson.

Malcolm wrote:
Tucker.Carlson.is.a.racist.white.supremicist.motherf#@cker.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 8:32 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:
krish5 said:
Brees should have stood to his convictions and not given in to mob mentality. I dont blame him though, it would take guts to go against this stream.

I agree with Donald Trumps take on it: "I am a big fan of Drew Brees. I think he’s truly one of the greatest quarterbacks, but he should not have taken back his original stance on honoring our magnificent American Flag. OLD GLORY is to be revered, cherished, and flown high..."

Thank God there is still Fox News that is sticking up for peoples rights, like Drew Brees. I watched a great short clip the other day with Tucker Carlson and Burgess Owens, and he said, it is this kind of mob mentality that will ensure that Trump wins again.

Malcolm wrote:
Dude, you are supporting racists. Honestly, f#$k off to wherever you came from. Wanker. You patriotism is supported on 400 years of slavery and genocide. It’s privileged motherf#@ckers like you that are the problem with this country.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 8:27 AM
Title: Re: Mayor of DC renames street BLM Plaza
Content:
krish5 said:
"yeah i can see why it's deemed racist....it only came into any sort of conversation since the ascension of Black Lives Matter."

I have been using this phrase, "All lives matter" for many years now and it has no connection to me to any other movement or reaction. It is just common sense, is rational, logical, sane. To separate humanity into black or white, christian or buddhist, capitalist or communist, that is the problem, this division, we are all ONE! That phrase is definitely anything but racist! It brings us together, does not separate or exclude in the least. It even includes insects, animals, trees, everything that is alive.

Malcolm wrote:
Your response is rooted in racism and privilege. When you accept that fact you will understand that no lives matter until black lives matter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 8:25 AM
Title: Re: Mayor of DC renames street BLM Plaza
Content:
krish5 said:
Each to their own, I prefer a street named "All lives matter"

Malcolm wrote:
Typical trumpian response. You are rotting your brain on Fox News.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 4:44 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:


Modus.Ponens said:
That's not true. You haven't provided a reason why we should allow riots that do no good other than we have to respect the anger of the rioters. I understand the anger, but I don't respect it to the point of supporting riots because they're counterproductive. And you have not explained why the system itself is racist.

Malcolm wrote:
This riot thing is really quite overstated. Yes, some business were damaged, but that's what insurance is for.

The looting happened because the police have their priorities wrong. They turned out in force against protestors, leaving business districts unprotected. The looting is a result of poor policing, it is not the fault of protesters.

Modus.Ponens said:
Even if I agreed with what you said, what about the people who died?

Malcolm wrote:
The fact that some people have engaged in murderous behavior during the protests is not a sufficient reason for the protests to be stopped.

The vast majority of the violence is being perpetrated by the police.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 1:42 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
fckw said:
I have never really heard teachers talk openly about topics such as the question asked even to advanced students. The common pattern seems to be: teacher visits place XYZ for a retreat. There gives empowerment, direct introduction, a text is being explained. In astonishingly few cases the teacher also gives you concrete meditation instructions including an explanation of the expected effects. If you are lucky, you get a 10 minutes interview slot in a 2 week retreat with the teacher. After 2 weeks the teacher travels further.

So: Unless you are doing a 3 years retreat or similar, or unless you are able to read old Tibetan, getting answers to questions such as the one above is not really offered by anyone.

Now, maybe that's even a good thing, I don't want to judge it. There are good reasons why certain things are rarely openly discussed. But telling others to "go and seek a good teacher" is, in my view, more or less same as telling people off. Name me one teacher who, when a foreign person shows up and asks about details of menngagde teachings, will openly explain things to that person. Why should s/he? The person could be mad, could want to publish stuff on the internet etc. You don't know him/her, so rather be careful. This means: No, "go ask a teacher" will not get you any further in most cases. And not everyone has the energy or the money left to travel to exotic places to find another teacher to ask.

Crazywisdom said:
Prayer of Samamntabhadra more or less will get you the basics. Not secret. Comes down to our elements are emotions and emotions are lights.

Malcolm wrote:
The Aspiration of Great Power, chapter 19 of the Explanatory Tantra of the Transcendent State of Samantabhadra, is a liberation through hearing text. But it's still secret, in so far as it is not proper to explain to people without transmission.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 1:32 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:


Modus.Ponens said:
That's not true. You haven't provided a reason why we should allow riots that do no good other than we have to respect the anger of the rioters. I understand the anger, but I don't respect it to the point of supporting riots because they're counterproductive. And you have not explained why the system itself is racist.

Malcolm wrote:
This riot thing is really quite overstated. Yes, some business were damaged, but that's what insurance is for.

The looting happened because the police have their priorities wrong. They turned out in force against protestors, leaving business districts unprotected. The looting is a result of poor policing, it is not the fault of protesters.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 1:26 AM
Title: Re: America's Fascist Collapse
Content:


Minobu said:
As time went on i thought he was just all about screwing every nation that America ever did business with...i did not expect this..

Malcolm wrote:
I hate to say I told you so...but I told you so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 1:25 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Dan74 said:
Welfare is indeed a tricky thing and places which had extensive welfare programs show handouts can disempower people, foster low self-esteem and apathy.

Malcolm wrote:
Bullshit.


Sādhaka said:
It depends on if said welfare is accompanied by good life advice.

Does the government ever share via news networks and so on, advice on how to live well? Such as eat organic, have a good workout regimen, cut out sugar and carbs to some degree, meditate, do occasional fasting routines, etc.?

Malcolm wrote:
Michelle did.

Sādhaka said:
Sometimes, but not very often nor effectively.

Malcolm wrote:
The GOP is deep f#$king denial about all this.

Sādhaka said:
Therefore  many (not all, as there are always exceptions) welfare recipients are eating monsanto garbage, walking around in walmart in pajamas with their cigarette packs in-between their boobs (I’m sure you’ve seen the image I’m referring to, unless maybe you live in Manhattan or similar) buying cheap plastic crap made in communist china. Basically “useless eaters”.

Malcolm wrote:
Ummm...implicit bias there? Walmart suppresses local markets everywhere they move in, exploiting poor people and because they refuse to employ people full time, the fed and state governments pick up their bills for the health care of their workers and so on.

Sādhaka said:
The government apparently doesn’t care about people’s health, and seems to want people unhealthy & hooked on big-pharma drugs; and people think that they care soooo much about us that they have us “social distancing” and wearing masks?

Malcolm wrote:
The problem again and again, is GOP science denial and catering to the moneyed class.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Dan74 said:
Welfare is indeed a tricky thing and places which had extensive welfare programs show handouts can disempower people, foster low self-esteem and apathy.

Malcolm wrote:
Bullshit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 12:36 AM
Title: Re: Advice for Consultation with Guru
Content:
smcj said:
Remember that from his side he is a human being, no matter what you think.
“A human being” can mean a deluded sentient being, a fully enlightened being, or anything in between. In some extraordinary cases, “human“ need not mean limited.

Malcolm wrote:
I meant ordinary human being.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 7th, 2020 at 12:33 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Modus.Ponens said:
The system is no longer racist. There are some racists who work for the system, but that does not mean the system is racist. They are bugs, not features of the system. Unless you want to go as far as some Antifa people and call black cops traitors and Ns.

Malcolm wrote:
The system is still racist: example, the Thirteenth Amendment, immigration laws and practices, etc.

The system is still sexist: example, failure to pass the ERA.

The system is still classist: example, bailing out banks and corporations, etc.

The system is still exploitative: example, discrimination against immigrant workers, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 7:48 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
Danny said:
That's Dzogchen viewed through a vajrayana practitioners conditioning. But Dzogchen is not a vajrayana transformation path.

yagmort said:
very well may be.. nonetheless let's say it is mandatory in Dudjom Tersar to finish several ngöndros before you can be introduced to Neluk Rangjung. Malcolm mentioned earlier about Tulku Sangngak as well.. so do you know of any teachers who are ok if you don't do ngöndro?


Danny said:
My friend, accumulating the two merits I n vajrayana is part of the path of transformation, I just said Dzogchen is not that. All integrated actions, conduct etc in Dzogchen are perfected as they are when one remains in state of contemplation.  It is the most important thing. Everything else is secondary. Sorry but I'm not here to supplant your teachers wishes, nor to instruct on Dzogchen. So I'm doing a forum white wash broad strokes reply, and that's where I'll end my contribution, if any. It's not my responsibility.

Regards

Malcolm wrote:
The two accumulations are also gathered dzogchen, just differently.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 11:12 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Our history is more complicated than NZ”s. There are way more stakeholders in this discussion.


mikenz66 said:
Yes, this is exactly what the left have been arguing for, isn't it? We have the same problem here, with Māori people locked up a lot more than whites and often for  marijuana offences, and the same cycles of poverty that are not well-enough addressed by the welfare system or the education system.

But some on the right argue against these things as "preferential treatment"....

Actually, I do think that some of the American progressive rhetoric has the appearance of  focusing too much on the past than the future. But maybe that's because noone really ever said "sorry" yet. That happened here decades ago, and has even eventually happened in Australia, though some time after this photo was taken 20 years ago...




Mike
Yes, I agree. In a small country (half the population of NYC) with basically one level of government it's much easier to make certain changes.  But don't forget that around the time when the US was fighting a civil war, the Māori people here were waging a guerrilla conflict against the  the British Empire's army over illegal land acquisitions. And all kinds of bad stuff happened in Australia, of course...


Mike

Malcolm wrote:
I understand. The accumulation of too much centralized power, whether it is political, social, or economic, is inimical to the self determination, happiness, and well being of all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 10:32 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The point this person fails to realize that in the United States, after the native population, black people have suffered the most state sponsored violence. The reason native people are not rising up is that white people, us, systematically eliminated them. The only white Americans free of this history are immigrants who arrived here after 1900. But special credit can laid at the feet of the diaspora of confederates during Reconstruction as well as Federal Troops who hunted down native people in US occupied territories.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 10:09 AM
Title: Re: Garab Dorje Three Points
Content:
AJP said:
Can Dzogchen be said to be anything other than Garab Dorje’s Three Points?

Ultimately?

Malcolm wrote:
The three phrases are just a bare outline of the basis, path, and result. If one is extremely intelligent, they maybe sufficient. But obviously they were not sufficient because if they were, Dzogchen literature would not be one of the major literary traditions of Tibetan Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 9:57 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Listen man, when even the most conservative generals in the US are calling out the Trump Administration for fascist behavior, beginning with Trump’s own former secretary of defense and White House chief of staff, your economic theory faith commitments, pearl clutching about property damage, numbers, and statistics are meaningless, Wake the f#%k up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 7:53 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
krish5 said:
Modus, you didnt do anything wrong

Malcolm wrote:
No one said he/she did anything wrong. They are expressing their vehement disagreement with his/her understanding of the issues.

Modus.Ponens said:
Which dovetails nicely into my criticism of progressives. They are aiding the rise of true fascism by removing the sting of these insults. Or by engaging in "antifascist" action consisting of destroying and burning things. Or by defining people as oppressors and victims (tantamount to evil and good) based on unchosen identity instead of actions.

Malcolm wrote:
Your caricature of Antifa is false, as is your caricature of progressives. You would do well to read Mark Bray’s book. Is Antifa illiberal? Definitely. Fascism should be shutdown hard. Mattis compared this administration to Hitler. Wake the f#%k up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 5:29 AM
Title: Mayor of DC renames street BLM Plaza
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Too awesome:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 5:12 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:
krish5 said:
And once i joined in, i said the heck with it and let my guard down and shared honestly and freely.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and complained about the responses you garnered here. Sometimes I complain about responses I garner here. That's what the report button is for.

Now, this conversation verges on meta-discussion, which is against TOS.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 5:06 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
krish5 said:
What is the point of using words like "Idiot" "Prick" "Vehement" "Dont know what you are talking about" "You are not a good Buddhist" Etc  These words or phrases kill conversations imo.

Malcolm wrote:
Sometimes conversations deserve to die.

For someone who recently claimed to be an advocate of free speech, it looks an awful lot like you want to control the parameters of what free speech is. Either you are for free speech, or you are not. If you are, then you really have to accept that people are going to use words that you don't like, for example, prick, idiot, vehement, and so on. You are free to engage in discussions or not, it is your choice. Your notion that someone is chasing someone away is erroneous. I am not a moderator, so I have no way to prevent anyone from saying anything.

Since we are in a Mahāyāna forum, you have to understand that intention is more important than actions. Vows are not rules, they are training guidelines. Harsh speech is not necessarily nonvirtuous speech. It all depends on context.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 4:58 AM
Title: Re: Why choose Mahayana over Vajrayana?
Content:
Nicholas2727 said:
I have heard that that Mahayana school says it will take 3 incalculable eons before someone reaches Buddhahood, although the Vajrayana school says someone can achieve Buddhahood in this lifetime. If both schools focus is on becoming a Buddha, why would one choose Mahayana (The much slower school) versus Vajrayana

Malcolm wrote:
First of all, Vajrayāna is Mahāyāna. The principle difference between common Mahāyāna and Uncommon Mahāyāna Secret Mantra is methodology. However, these distinctions are Indian. East Asian Buddhists have a whole different scheme that was arrived at in China and Japan, not India. That does not mean they are ipso facto invalid. Another issue is that Indian Mahāyāna survives only in Tibetan Buddhism, where it is taught for theory, but not for practice. For practice, Tibetan Buddhists teach various types of Vajrayāna practice.

Indian Mahāyāna is not really taught in Chinese Buddhism. The Chinese Buddhists have developed an independent understanding of Mahāyāna which is very distinct from Indian Mahāyāna. Nevertheless, there are certain fundamental commonalities since all Mahāyāna traditions are based on Mahāyāna sūtras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
krish5 said:
Modus, you didnt do anything wrong

Malcolm wrote:
No one said he/she did anything wrong. They are expressing their vehement disagreement with his/her understanding of the issues.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 4:46 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:
Steel said:
“Drew’s original statement, I thought, was insensitive. It was very insensitive, especially during this time. But I thought the negative reaction from every talking head on television and some of his teammates was overkill. I never heard a bad word about Drew Brees in my life. He made a mistake. But we’ve gotten to the point in society where everybody on social media thinks they are God, judge and jury. Drew Brees made a mistake,” Barkley said on TNT.


Malcolm wrote:
And we would not be discussing it at all if someone had not asked us what we thought about it, and is now quite upset at the response they've elicited:

krish5 said:
I already had to do the same thing, in a thread i am on, they accuse you of all kinds of things. I dont know what is going on with this forum, a Buddhist forum where even some of the moderators are coming hard at posters and lacking in right speech imo. I already brought it up to the head guy a few days ago and then to another moderator and also am experiencing this myself. I dont mind criticism myself and laugh at most of these silly immature responses, but it is still not right and not in the spirit of Buddhism and what a Buddhist forum should be like.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 4:07 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:


krish5 said:
p.s. - Another football player in hot water.
https://billswire.usatoday.com/2020/06/04/buffalo-bills-work-with-jake-fromm-teammates-tredavious-white/

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because he said something idiotic in private, and was outed. What a prick.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 3:36 AM
Title: Re: America's Fascist Collapse
Content:
Crazywisdom said:
I escaped the place. I cannot defend it. I was a lit major and we read Eli Weisel and others. 20 years of adulthood having this fascist descent just get worse and worse. As a lawyer I heard powerful people say and do outright fascism de verdade. I read Trungpa say his guru advised there is no defending Tibet and to escape. That moment I knew it was time to go.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, but you went from pan to fire: Bolsinaro is just as much a fascist as Trump.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 3:35 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:
krish5 said:
And now i see what they are allowing to Drew Brees, and i think it is wrong, he is entitled to his opinion. We are losing many rights in this country, including Freedom of Speech. Even Burgess is seeing this and has the courage to speak up.

Queequeg said:
Dude, you didn't know who Brees was before he became a martyr for Laura Ingraham. You have no idea who Burgess Owen is other than he was featured on Fox as a talking head offering an opinion in support of Brees. You want to talk about free speech in the NFL? Let's talk about Colin Kaepernick getting black listed.

What Fox is making a big deal about is a twitter uproar. Its pathetic. Its the kind of story assigned to interns - "Here, watch your twitter feed and come up with a story. We need a 5 minute segment tonight between the My Pillow and metamucil commercials."

As I said, Brees is clueless. I hope he gets educated. He's paid to chuck a football, which he's very good at, not give informed political opinions.
P.S. - Buddha was a revolutionary, he went against the stream, the current, what people believed at his time. He questioned all, doubted all, did not accept God or a permanent self/atman. It took great courage on his part to speak what he saw and felt, even though it went against the norm. Never forget that Buddha himself was a true revolutionary, revolted against the whole system and beliefs of his time. He challenged all.
Buddha was beyond labels like "revolutionary". Please don't put a beret on Gautama and call him Che.

Buddha taught liberation. He did not question all, doubt all. He examined his mind and saw it clearly, liberating himself.

You don't know Buddhist teachings very well at all.

Malcolm wrote:
Not only that, but this business of standing for the national anthem in Football is a relatively recent thing:
2009: NFL players began standing on the field for the national anthem before the start of primetime games. Before this, players would stay in their locker rooms except during the Super Bowl and after 9/11.

2015: Senators John McCain and Jeff Flake released a report revealing that the Department of Defense had spent $6.8 million between 2012 and 2015 on what the senators called "paid patriotism" events before professional sports games, including American flag displays, honoring of military members, reenlistment ceremonies, etc. The DoD justified the money paid to 50 professional sports teams by calling it part of their recruiting strategy. However, many teams had these ceremonies without compensation from the military, and there was nothing found in the contracts that mandated that players stand during the anthem.
The question is, is marketed patriotism patriotism or just a way to convince dumbass kids with little common sense and less education to join up?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Modus.Ponens said:
If black lives truly matter for progressives, they have to stop ignoring unpleasant realities so that there can be effective solutions to improve and save black lives. Unfortunately, what I frequently see is that progressives think that the narrative and the ideology are more important than black lives.

Queequeg said:
What are you talking about?
This is one of the stupider talking points Fox must be circulating these days (I'm guessing, because I haven't hate watched recently, but I've seen/heard more or less the same stupid thing from other Fox new watchers and I doubt that you guys have the brain cells to think this one up yourselves), lulling their audience in their racism while giving them the comfort of thinking they're not really racist, but that its progressives who are really the racist ones.

Malcolm wrote:
And now this:


https://www.propublica.org/article/new-trump-appointee-to-foreign-aid-agency-has-denounced-liberal-democracy-and-our-homo-empire

Queequeg said:
A new Trump appointee to the United States’ foreign aid agency has a history of online posts denouncing liberal democracy and has said that the country is in the clutches of a “homo-empire” that pushes a “tyrannical LGBT agenda.”

In one post, Merritt Corrigan, who recently took up a position as deputy White House liaison at the U.S. Agency for International Development, wrote: “Liberal democracy is little more than a front for the war being waged against us by those who fundamentally despise not only our way of life, but life itself.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 3:06 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:
krish5 said:
Good point Malcolm, but finally some people are starting to stick up for Brees and say he received undue, unfair, overkill criticism for what he said.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and free speech also means that other people can say dumb shit in defense of the dumb shit one says.

As far as sports go, I prefer tennis.
On DWE I also use my own name. I don't believe in internet anonymity. I think it is harmful.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 3:05 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:
krish5 said:
Good point Malcolm, but finally some people are starting to stick up for Brees and say he received undue, unfair, overkill criticism for what he said.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and free speech also means that other people can say dumb shit in defense of the dumb shit one says.

As far as sports go, I prefer tennis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 2:06 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:


krish5 said:
And now i see what they are allowing to Drew Brees, and i think it is wrong, he is entitled to his opinion. We are losing many rights in this country, including Freedom of Speech. Even Burgess is seeing this and has the courage to speak up.

Malcolm wrote:
Freedom of speech does not mean that when we say some dumb shit, we are immune to criticism. All it means is that we can say some dumb shit without being put in jail for it. It does not mean that other people are not allowed to publicly castigate us for the dumb shit we might have said. It's a risk we take especially when we are public figures.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 1:59 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
Fa Dao said:
As an aside, I did receive the Yeshe Lama transmission from another Teacher but feel more connected to the Longde...it makes sense to me....

Malcolm wrote:
If you have received Yeshe Lama than you have received all the instructions you need in this life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 1:57 AM
Title: America's Fascist Collapse
Content:
Unknown said:
Remember how his advisors advanced the ideas of ethnic cleansing and purification? How he began his campaign by calling immigrants and refugees “vermin” and “animals”? Blaming them for the economic woes of the average American, who suddenly found themselves downwardly mobile, poor, and desperate? Trump blamed a certain hated minority — Latinos, mostly, but also blacks and Muslims and Jews — a demagogue scapegoating them for all a nation’s problems, from poverty to social disintegration to hopelessness to a lack of good jobs to crime. Just like Hitler had in the 1930s to Jews, too. Yes, really. Ask your Jewish friends. 99.9% of them will agree.
That was fascism.

Malcolm wrote:
https://eand.co/this-is-americas-fascist-collapse-c830c1d2271a


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 1:20 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Dan74 said:
QQ, what makes you think that the 'overclass' is an especially nasty bunch of people?

Malcolm wrote:
Most of them support the GOP.


Dan74 said:
From what I've seen, the US rich are the best philanthropists in the world. A bunch of them argue for higher taxes and more programs for the poor. I recall a few years back, there was a concerted push from the US billionaires for lifting people out of poverty, building up a bigger middle class, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, frankly, there are not that many billionaires in the US, 630 to be exact, with a net worth of $3.4 trillion. But it is the millionaires that are problem, 14 million to be exact, 11% of all households.

Dan74 said:
So is it the 'overclass' or a particular slice of it that happens to be better organised and to wield outsized influence? Koch, Murdoch, Thiel, etc?

Malcolm wrote:
The GOP is organized around money, guns, and religion, in that order. They have a simpler message than Democrats, etc., i.e. "Get yours first" followed by "Screw your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" which is why Steven Miller dismissed the sonnet written by Emma Lazarus that was added to the base of the Statue of Liberty.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 6th, 2020 at 1:07 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Queequeg said:
Better trained than their maids and gardeners,

Malcolm wrote:
Ahem, no you are not. You are just trained in different things.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 10:26 PM
Title: Re: US Government declares America is a Battlespace
Content:


Grigoris said:
"We have no legal rights as prisoners, only as citizens.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, because 13 amendment, which enshrined carceral slavery into law.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 10:24 PM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:
krish5 said:
"I wouldn't be surprised if he's also a Trumper."

I dont want to make this about Trump. But have to ask, does it matter if he voted for Trump or not, likes him or not? What does his political beliefs have to do whether he is a good decent human being or not?

This is where i get confused, i see a lot of put downs of Trump on here and saying you cannot be a Buddhist and like Trump, or something like that.

Malcolm wrote:
Supporting corrupt leaders is not consistent with Buddhist values. Trump is corrupt. Therefore, supporting Trump is not consistent with Buddhist values.


krish5 said:
Even some black people vote for and support Trump. It has nothing to do with any skin color, any religion, everyone has their reasons for voting as they do and that is their right.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, some black people did, to their short-term advantage and long term disadvantage. It was just the same in Vichy France, where some French people supported a collaborationist leader.


krish5 said:
i am giving the guy the benefit of the doubt on this.

Malcolm wrote:
He is just another white guy who has not properly studied the history of this nation, and does not understand that the Star Spangled Banner is a racist poem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 10:16 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
Norwegian said:
Except Dzogchen is open to anybody who has an interest in it.

fckw said:
Well - did the author of the question in this thread get an answer other than "go ask teacher"? And did he manage to "go ask teacher"? You are really just juggling with cool words that don't mean so much in actual practical terms.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, because these things need to be heard at the feet of a teacher, not read on a bulletin board.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 10:13 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
fckw said:
But when I hear especially people in their retirement part of life asking questions and receiving stereotype answers then I really wonder whether the answer "go and find teacher" is still appropriate. Those people don't have 30 years left for practice. And who are we to judge whether a specific person would or would not profit from an actual explanation of some subtle points?

Malcolm wrote:
It is appropriate. Why? Well, because this is an open forum, and such questions need to be answered in a private setting with a qualified teacher.

This is not a proper forum for discussing the intimate details of Dzogchen teachings. So we don't.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 10:09 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:


PSM said:
Yes, it can be. I've seen it on this site (not this thread) with certain individuals seeming to use it as a hammer on those with legit questions. As if 99% of people wouldn't ask their teacher such questions if they could.

Malcolm wrote:
Frequently, while the questions are legitimate, the forum for answering them [i.e. here] is not suitable, nor is it necessarily appropriate to answer those questions at all, if someone does not have the right qualifications.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 10:06 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
Fa Dao said:
and I should add that I am just too damn old, tired, and brain damaged to start off from square one....btw, I wasnt asking about actual techniques/practices, I was just trying to wrap my head around the process, the theoretical side...oh well

Malcolm wrote:
You already have enough to do with practicing rushan, etc. These are the preliminary practices for thogal and the enhancement practices for trekcho. Further, while the four visions do occur in longde, Longde texts do not explain the theoretical side. So you should make effort to listen to Lama Chonam's lung of the Tshog don mdzod. That text as the complete theoretical foundation you are looking for. When Norbu Rinpoche gave transmission, he did not just give transmission for one series of Dzogchen or another. He gave a unified transmission. But the instructions for all three series need to be sought out separately. And in the case of Longde, also the Ngondzog Gyalpo empowerment is required.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 10:02 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
Fa Dao said:
ok guys..I hear you..thanks

Malcolm wrote:
He will insist you do a ngondro.

Fa Dao said:
I know..thats one of the reasons why I haven't gone there before...I have met many Teachers in the past almost 40 years...Norbu is the one that always made sense to me...the way he taught I just got it...ya know what I mean?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. The problem with Dzogchen Community at present is there is no one who is giving transmissions of such things as thogal and yangti inside the community. There are only SMS teachers who continue to give instructions for transmissions they have already received.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 8:48 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Modus.Ponens said:
101667756_10220249018912461_7064554214973767680_o.jpg

Malcolm wrote:
This not what BLM is protesting. You table is distorted.

Modus.Ponens said:
Blacks made up 12% of the population. However, from 2015 – 2019 they accounted for 26.4% of those that were killed by police under all circumstances. In other words, Blacks were the victims of the lethal use of force by police at nearly twice their rate in the general population. Whites make up the majority of victims of police use of lethal force (50.3%) from 2015 – 2019,

Malcolm wrote:
https://thesocietypages.org/toolbox/police-killing-of-blacks/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 10:12 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
Fa Dao said:
ok guys..I hear you..thanks

Malcolm wrote:
He will insist you do a ngondro.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 10:11 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:
krish5 said:
"I wouldn't be surprised if he's also a Trumper."

I dont want to make this about Trump. But have to ask, does it matter if he voted for Trump or not, likes him or not? What does his political beliefs have to do whether he is a good decent human being or not?

Malcolm wrote:
Well, voting for Trump was an error, to vote for him again, absolutely immoral.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 9:11 AM
Title: Re: US Government declares America is a Battlespace
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Um, no. Worst president ever.

Nemo said:
Pinochet, the Shah of Iran, Hugo Banzer, the house of Saud, Manuel Noriega, etc, etc
He's pretty average really.

Grigoris said:
They were all Amerikan (backed) "presidents" too.

Malcolm wrote:
That was his point, but it was it wasn’t clear.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 9:05 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:


Ceisiwr said:
The rule of law and the maintenance of order is of paramount importance, providing those laws do not violate basic human rights. When enough people start to think that mob action and vigilantism (such as with the dangerously deluded Antifa rabble) is acceptable then things become dangerous. It must not be given an inch.

Malcolm wrote:
As Nelson Mandela put it In 1990, “Nonviolence is a good policy when conditions permit, but sometimes conditions do not permit.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 8:27 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
Johnny Dangerous

The people engaging in this behavior are a minority of protestors.


Indeed and they should rightly be condemned. Thuggish behaviour is totally unacceptable.

Once again you want to address this, but apparently think that generational decades of racist violence is either equivalent, or even less important. If that weren't the case you wouldn't keep bringing this up, because you'd have different priorities here.
I don't think they are equivalent. One is obviously worse than the other, but both are morally reprehensible.

I don't care.
Splendid!

A "socialist problem"? Aren't you in the UK? We don't and have never even had a labor party, much less a socialist party. What a cockamamie statement.
I do indeed. I actually live in Cymru (Wales), where we have had a Welsh Labour government at every welsh election since 1999. Leftism permeates our society in many ways, not all of it good. Actual socialism has been on the rise here too. The growth of anti-capitalist and anti-liberal (in the UK sense) sentiment is rife both here and in the US. The growth of the acceptance of totalitarian ideas is concerning.

I'm not apologizing, I'm just properly contextualizing it next to generations of black communities subject to violence and severe economic repression, which you aren't, for reasons which seem fairly obvious - you think they are somehow equivalent, or that "law and order" in this context is more important than systemic racism and violence. Makes your values clear at least.
The rule of law and the maintenance of order is of paramount importance, providing those laws do not violate basic human rights. When enough people start to think that mob action and vigilantism (such as with the dangerously deluded Antifa rabble) is acceptable then things become dangerous. It must not be given an inch.

Malcolm wrote:
Law and order without justice is neither lawful nor orderly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 7:38 AM
Title: Re: Drew Brees and controversy, what do Buddhists think about this
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The right wing fetish for the flag is childish. Moreover, the national anthem lionizes slavery:
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
I stopped saying the pledge of allegiance in 1970, in third grade.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 5:19 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
LastLegend said:
Your expectation is very high for modern degenerative age where world is wretched with bad karma. Satori is not easy in any tradition. There is a rare one in a billion who has reached the Wisdom level of Buddhas. You might have an Arahant and possibly a Bodhisattva here and there.

Malcolm wrote:
You are too skeptical.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 5:06 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:


Ceisiwr said:
I actually said that the US...also has a socialist problem too.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, there are not enough of them. But that is changing:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:



Ceisiwr said:
Within free trade the most inefficient business goes out of business, as it should, thus making the economy more efficient.

Malcolm wrote:
"Free" trade isn't free. It's a rigged game. There is no efficiency in nature. This is one of the reasons why capitalism is an unnatural growth on the planet and should excised like a cancer. Unfortunately, while I can understand a bit of violent rebellion now and again, I am not particularly fond of violent revolutions. We are stuck with capitalism present, but not because it is the best or most ideal of economic systems.

Ceisiwr said:
I'm amazed that you seem to think that there would be no destruction of habitat under socialism. Some destruction of habitat is going to happen wherever humans settle.

Malcolm wrote:
I've addressed this already. Industrialism, the means of production that Marxist-Leninists wanted to seize, is itself toxic. One of the main faults of Marx's thinking is the view he held that capitalism was progressive. It isn't.

So it is not surprising that the former Soviet bloc countries were heavily polluted, just as England, the US and other nations with extensive heavy industry were polluted. That's what happens when you burn too many hydrocarbons in too short a period of time, and randomly dump toxic shit all over the place.

When one observes that 50% of the animal life on the planet has declined since the publication of Silent Spring, one really has to wonder at such statements as, "Some destruction of habitat is going to happen wherever humans settle."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 4:50 AM
Title: Re: US Government declares America is a Battlespace
Content:
Nemo said:
Trump is pretty good compared to most of the bozos you put in charge.

Malcolm wrote:
Um, no. Worst president ever.

Nemo said:
Pinochet, the Shah of Iran, Hugo Banzer, the house of Saud, Manuel Noriega, etc, etc
He's pretty average really.

Malcolm wrote:
I was referring to American Presidents.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 4:38 AM
Title: Re: abiding in suchness
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You can't unsee that...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 4:28 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Minobu said:
the girl got sprayed too and she was just standing there as well.

Norwegian said:
"Freedom of speech" doesn't exist in the US. Talk and you get assaulted. Especially if you're black.

Malcolm wrote:
This is what White Supremacy looks like.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 3:42 AM
Title: Re: Biden Sharpton ticket
Content:
DNS said:
Biden has already said it will be a woman. My guess is it will be a woman-of-color, probably Kamala Harris.

Malcolm wrote:
Would prefer Val Demmings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 3:27 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Norwegian said:
More apples, feeling the need to shoot at a black couple, for absolutely no reason at all:



Malcolm wrote:
Or as the old Crisis song has it:

Don't rebel,
you won't get thanked, 
you'll just get run over by a tank.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 3:25 AM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:



Fa Dao said:
oh ok..so the Longde teachings from Rinpoche aren't complete enough? You said in another post that they were complete..but hey, if its one of those things that is not to be discussed at all then cool..no prob

Malcolm wrote:
Longde is a complete method, that does not mean it is a complete explanation. The explanation you are looking for is in Upadesha level tantras, in thogal. Longde is a bridge between semsde and managde.

Fa Dao said:
ahhh...ok..thank you...sorry..I still dont know what can be asked/talked about and what cant..my Teacher is gone...there is, as far as I know, no one else out there that teaches Longde the way he did...He also said that Longde was a bridge to rainbow body...
Is it possible that with continued practice many of the answers will become known through practice? or is that just wishful thinking?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because Longde is a bridge to thogal.

Wishful thinking. You live near a very qualified Dzogchen master, Tulku Sangngak. I suggest you seek teachings from him.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
Well for the developing world the wages might seem low to us, but for them its a good thing. Earning £5 a day is better than earning £2 a day, which is better than earning £0 a day.

Malcolm wrote:
This assumes that wages are always "good."

For example, after NAFTA was passed, and the US dumped cheap corn on the Mexican Market, 50,000 small farmers were forced out of business. They were forced to leave their land and move to the cities to find jobs. Where they had formerly been self-reliant, and had minimal needs from the cash economy, now they were unable to provide for themselves, and abandoned maize cultivation to find work in Mexico City, etc. This led to massive overcrowding as well as a huge influx of men looking for work in the US, "illegally." Eventually, by working in the US, these small farmers were able to send money home and did a great deal to restore the local economies of Mexico. But the small farms in the meantime are finished, and along with them, many hundreds of landraces of maize. Now of course, the appetite for avocado toast has led to the rise of two things: illegal avocado cartels and destruction of monarch butterfly habitats in the old growth forests of Michoacán, which is the only state in Mexico allowed to export avocados to the US.

Once again, we see here how capitalism, far from encouraging free markets, actually is a force of market suppression. Amazon is a perfect example of what happens when antitrust laws are not observed. Amazon and Walmart are two of the main forces of market suppression in the world.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 2:53 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:


Dan74 said:
It's ironic that the US, billed as the land of opportunity, has some of the most insidious structures in place designed to maintain existing classes and impede social mobility.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not ironic, it is by design, thanks to the GOP.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
Hello Johnny Dangerous

It's a bigger deal than the black men dying at the hands of police, filling up the prisons etc., over a large period of years? Your priorities are interesting.
I've already stated that police brutality is wrong and that the US has a particular problem with it. None of that justifies rioting.

Malcolm wrote:
We disagree. Sometimes a riot is exactly what is needed.



Ceisiwr said:
Is rioting and property destruction wrong? Sure.
Well this is refreshing.

Malcolm wrote:
Not necessarily. It depends on how much oppression one has had to bear.


Ceisiwr said:
Here in the UK its extremely minimal. How we get it better than the US, i don't know.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.elle.com/uk/life-and-culture/a32742001/marcia-rigg-anti-racism/

Ceisiwr said:
'All I could think about was Sean, because that’s exactly what they did to him.'

Marcia Rigg’s first thought when she watched that video of a white police officer kneeling on George Floyd’s neck while he cried out, ‘I can’t breathe’, was of her late brother Sean Rigg.

There were immediate parallels.

Firstly, both men were black, Sean was 40 and George Floyd, 46. In 2008, Sean also died after being restrained by police officers in the prone position – face down with pressure applied to the back and neck – for seven minutes. Though an Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) report said officers acted ‘reasonably and proportionately’, two years later, a Coroner’s court determined that they used ‘unnecessary’ and ‘unsuitable force’, which ‘more than minimally’ contributed to the curtailing of his life. Sean’s death was recorded as a cardiac arrest, with the coroners also adding in partial positional asphyxia.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/04/systemic-racism-police-brutality-british-problems-black-lives-matter

Ceisiwr said:
Though the numbers of deaths following police contact are thankfully not as bad in the UK as in the US, we should be anything but complacent when it comes to our own structural problems with racism or policing. Institutional racism exists at every level of our criminal justice system, from who gets stopped and searched, to who gets arrested, to who gets charged, to who gets convicted.

Malcolm wrote:
Like father, like son. For the most part, the British Empire has exported it brutality to other nations, like Ireland,Scotland, Burma, India, the Americas, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 2:37 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
The "associated fallout of that" has been rioters destroying private property. That is completely unacceptable behaviour. Law and order must be maintained.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that's what priviledge white people always say when the consequences of their racist policies bite them around the ankles.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:



Ceisiwr said:
I have not been apologising for police violence. I have been condemning violence on all sides.

Malcolm wrote:
This is an apology for police violence: "Tear gas, rubber bullets and batons are used in order for the police to protect themselves and for crowd dispersal."

Ceisiwr said:
As I said previously, there is some justification for self defence. Tear gas is pretty standard for crowd control, which is the job of the police. Better to control the crowd than to let it become a violent destructive mob, or an even worse one. Its a shame that you literally can't tell the difference.

Malcolm wrote:
You claim to be against violence, and allow that the police are permitted to use it in self-defense, and in the same breath, deny the same privilege of self-defense to protestors. So basically, you are asserting only the police have a right to self-defense, meaning only the police have the right to use violence. Thus,  you are apologizing for police violence by renaming it "self-defense and crowd dispersal."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 12:40 AM
Title: Re: US Government declares America is a Battlespace
Content:
Nemo said:
Trump is pretty good compared to most of the bozos you put in charge.

Malcolm wrote:
Um, no. Worst president ever.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
Me not directly experiencing it does not mean that rioting is ok, or that attacking the police is ok. Just like police brutality it is wrong. If you want to apologise for such violence you can, but it’s probably best to stop calling yourself a Buddhist if you do.

Malcolm wrote:
You have been systematically apologizing for police violence, better stop calling yourself "Buddhist."

Ceisiwr said:
I have not been apologising for police violence. I have been condemning violence on all sides.

Malcolm wrote:
This is an apology for police violence: "Tear gas, rubber bullets and batons are used in order for the police to protect themselves and for crowd dispersal."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
jake said:
Again, please stay on topic. The issue at hand is George Floyd Protests. If you wish to discuss global economics/world systems theory/capitalism/etc. please take it to another thread.

Malcolm wrote:
They are related. Systematic racism which lead to the death of Floyd is connected to these other issues.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 5th, 2020 at 12:08 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Queequeg said:
There's a lot of experimentation going on trying to figure out how to counter inequality in education.

Grigoris said:
A national department of education that funds schools equally?  Why don't they try that solution?  Seems to work just about everywhere else in the world.

In Greece teachers are public servants and have the ability to apply to work in specific schools (near their home towns or urban centers) only after they have spent a certain amount of time working in schools in remote rural areas and islands.  They are offered bonuses/incentives to work in remote areas.

Malcolm wrote:
Because GOP, they do not want educated voters, or people to believe in evolution, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Matt J said:
I think Paul Krugman summarized it pithily:
How did we get here? The core story of U.S. politics over the past four decades is that wealthy elites weaponized white racism to gain political power, which they used to pursue policies that enriched the already wealthy at workers’ expense.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/opinion/trump-george-floyd-police-brutality.html

I don't think it is intransigence, I think it is intentional. The GOP doesn't want progress--- or at least, until the number of minorities who vote imperil their political opportunities (reduced of course via gerrymandering, barriers to voting, etc.).

Malcolm wrote:
The protests are a result of 45 years of frustration that the US has made very little concrete progress in fixing these issues, largely due to GOP intransigence.
Their intransigence is a function of their intent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 11:26 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
Fa Dao said:
So CNNR has said that "...but through this integration of the nature of mind and the nature of existence (semnyid and Chonyid), the light body manifests"
So how and why does this work?

Malcolm wrote:
You need to receive more complete teachings on dzogchen to understand this point. It should not really be discussed on a forum in public.

Fa Dao said:
oh ok..so the Longde teachings from Rinpoche aren't complete enough? You said in another post that they were complete..but hey, if its one of those things that is not to be discussed at all then cool..no prob

Malcolm wrote:
Longde is a complete method, that does not mean it is a complete explanation. The explanation you are looking for is in Upadesha level tantras, in thogal. Longde is a bridge between semsde and managde.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 10:36 PM
Title: Re: Rainbow body questions
Content:
Fa Dao said:
So CNNR has said that "...but through this integration of the nature of mind and the nature of existence (semnyid and Chonyid), the light body manifests"
So how and why does this work?

Malcolm wrote:
You need to receive more complete teachings on dzogchen to understand this point. It should not really be discussed on a forum in public.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 9:23 PM
Title: Re: Multicolored Garuda
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
it has the same lineage as Yogini, being one of the Sakya Thirteen Golden Dharnas.

Danny said:
Question, the yogini lineage in later times amongst the kadam becomes a topic of political conversation?

Malcolm wrote:
The Naro Khacho tradition was heavily modified by Phabongkha Dechen Nyingpo in the early 20th century, after he received it from a Sakya master, Zimog Tulku. His modifications sparked some criticism.

With respect to Vajragaruda, the lineage is Vajradhara, Jñānaḍākinī, Naropa, the Phaimthing brothers, Logkya Lotsawa Sherab Tsek, Mal Lotsawa Lodo Drakpa, Sachen Kunga Nyungpo, etc. The same lineage as Naro Khachod, in fact.

The associated instructions of this cycle are quite extensive, roughly thirty folios or so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 8:37 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
Me not directly experiencing it does not mean that rioting is ok, or that attacking the police is ok. Just like police brutality it is wrong. If you want to apologise for such violence you can, but it’s probably best to stop calling yourself a Buddhist if you do.

Malcolm wrote:
You have been systematically apologizing for police violence, better stop calling yourself "Buddhist."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 8:03 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
And it happened, NZ passed laws to prevent it, actually.

mikenz66 said:
I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to, but I do agree that our immigration system is  a frustrating mess at present (which I've had to deal with in various ways).

Unless you're a Peter Thiel, of course:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/

But perhaps this is getting off topic...


Mike

Malcolm wrote:
Lots of wealthy tech overlords purchased property in NZ, right after trump was elected, until policies were changed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 8:01 PM
Title: Re: Multicolored Garuda
Content:
Danny said:
Something like Chilupa who gives it to nadapada (naropa) who gives it to Atisha and so on, the condensed version, not the long form which I think is non existent, which was what the kings of shambala used as a sort of political great society experiment.

Something like that?

Regards

Malcolm wrote:
No, I’ll have look at the lineage again, but from  Naropa to Sachen, it has the same lineage as Yogini, being one of the Sakya Thirteen Golden Dharnas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 7:56 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:



Dan74 said:
(is this how people actually talk? I just know it from Battlestar Galactica.. )

To expand on it a little, do you mean specifically the poverty, the violence and the brutality of law enforcement? I tried earlier to come up with some lame suggestions to improve the communities and people's chances to do something meaningful with their lives. But one of the things that strikes me is that for every thousand words of condemnation of this or that, of righteous anger, etc etc there is hardly a word of a concrete proposal.

Queequeg said:
It's how the forum editing software makes us sound. Lol

A big part of the anger is because there are no pithy remedies. A being in hell takes eons to escape because the improvements are only incremental. We have 400 and more years of bad karma to dig out of. We've made eons of karma that brought us here now. Many of the solutions to make a difference are incremental and generational. But patience is in short supply in the face of such inequality and injustice, especially in a place like the US where the inequality is flaunted and explicitly built on exploitation and cruelty. That's what Chauvin's smug face spoke in that video. He had no fear of consequences no matter what happened.

Even if we implemented all of those reforms in Malcolm's video to fix institutional racism, they would need to be energetically sustained for generations to have the effect we need. But we have to start where we are and all we can look forward to is fixing them.

Dan74 said:
I suspect if the energy and the anger of the protests were poured into concrete proposals, like securing equal funding for schools, as the video suggests, it could succeed. Other than that, they mostly seem to act as a massive pressure relief valve - make us feel like we are doing something, while nothing continues to be done.

Malcolm wrote:
The protests are a result of 45 years of frustration that the US has made very little concrete progress in fixing these issues, largely due to GOP intransigence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 12:20 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
If trump is re-elected, expect a refugee bump from the US.

mikenz66 said:
Ha. That's what Joan Baez said when she played in my city in New Zealand during the last election - of course as an intro to Woody Guthrie's song "Deportee".

Arlo Guthrie and Hoyt Axton:



Mike

Malcolm wrote:
And it happened, NZ passed laws to prevent it, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 12:09 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
krish5 said:
Type in Youtube this, if you want to hear a different perspective from a very intelligent, law abiding concerned Black Woman:
Candace Owens - I DO NOT support George Floyd and I refuse to see him as a martyr! It is a 18 minute video she posted today and it is powerful!

I will not respond to any comments or put downs, just sharing this in case there is any Buddhists out there who want to hear a more balanced, intelligent perspective to this whole madness going on. Be well.

Malcolm wrote:
Who gives a flying frak what she thinks? She wasn’t lynched  by four racist cops in cold blood in broad daylight. If you don’t understand that George Floyd was lynched, you are an idiot.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 11:47 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Minobu said:
.someone on CBC said 60 million of these vote Trump no matter what...

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, 37 percent of electorate voted in the Nazis too. But GOP wins depend very specifically on voter suppression, so expect to see a lot of it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 11:42 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Minobu said:
yeah well how scary is this

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/trumps-biblical-spectacle-outside-st-johns-church/612529/

Christians applaud in glee over Trump's holding up the Bible against lawlessness and racism ..
we is frigged...i mean I thought he could not come back from this.....

Malcolm wrote:
Christian Fascism is the new black on the right. Those bastards need to be shut down hard too. Democracy depends on it. Otherwise we are looking at some variation of the Handmaid’s  Tale.

Minobu said:
I think you already have it...

Malcolm wrote:
If trump is re-elected, expect a refugee bump from the US.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 11:41 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Minobu said:
Christians applaud in glee over Trump's holding up the Bible against lawlessness and racism ..

Queequeg said:
Last stand. They have nothing to do but go down with him. They're in the wilderness once he's out.

Minobu said:
last stand..lol.so friggin true...i see now why all the angst online here about what christianity means in America....

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not angst, you have good Christians like the bishop of Washington. She is quite excellent. Then you have Falwell and the rest of the Christian Fascists, who are every bit as bad as the Taliban.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 11:31 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Minobu said:
yeah well how scary is this

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/trumps-biblical-spectacle-outside-st-johns-church/612529/

Christians applaud in glee over Trump's holding up the Bible against lawlessness and racism ..
we is frigged...i mean I thought he could not come back from this.....

Malcolm wrote:
Christian Fascism is the new black on the right. Those bastards need to be shut down hard too. Democracy depends on it. Otherwise we are looking at some variation of the Handmaid’s  Tale.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 11:28 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Queequeg said:
Basically called him a Nazi.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup. Old school Antifa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 11:22 AM
Title: Re: Multicolored Garuda
Content:
Danny said:
Garuda and kalachakra, I think some connection with Panchen Lama.

Regards

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe, the origin is Naropa via Sakya.

Danny said:
Well technically it would be Shakyamuni appearing as kalachakra at Dhanyakataka as requested by King Suchandra. But I wasn't there so can't really say.

Regards

Malcolm wrote:
The sadhana comes from Naropa via Sakya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 11:18 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Queequeg said:
Wow. Finally, someone has spoken up. I hope others take the cue and follow suit.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, he openly admitted that trump is a fascist bastard.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 10:27 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
Still, I have a feeling that Trump will win the next election.

Malcolm wrote:
If so, only through corruption. Also, he has turned the military leadership against him with his latest stunt. The military in the US is mostly republican. If they turn, well, no way he gets re-elected. Also, it is pretty much another blue wave, even before covid, and now this. So, we will see at the polls.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 10:01 AM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club
Content:
PeterC said:
...

Grigoris said:
Well, that's it then.  PeterC leads the first reading.

PeterC said:
Could I get an extension on my homework?  Happy to do the second but the next ten days for me are going to be very busy at work, I can do the reading but I doubt I can write the book report in time

Malcolm wrote:
The main point here is not to understand the meaning of the term abhidharma here, the main is to understand the meaning of prajna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 9:59 AM
Title: Re: Multicolored Garuda
Content:
Danny said:
Garuda and kalachakra, I think some connection with Panchen Lama.

Regards

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe, the origin is Naropa via Sakya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 9:56 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
mikenz66 said:
Trump doesn't actually have the authority to do most of the things he's ranting about...

Malcolm wrote:
he doesn’t rant about things he can do, he smugly does them, and the optics are always really embarrassing for him, because he is such a little bitch.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 9:53 AM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:
Nemo said:
, it could be natural. But if so you should also check your trash for winning lotto tickets. There is no proof it is natural.

Malcolm wrote:
You know quite well you cannot prove a negative. So why go there?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 9:50 AM
Title: The next crisis, right around the corner...
Content:
Unknown said:
"When the $600-a-week unemployment insurance runs out at the end of July, most people expect tremendous displacement risk," says Andrew Jakabovics with the affordable housing nonprofit Enterprise Community Partners. "Evictions are likely to go through the roof."
And with eviction moratoriums expiring in parts of the country, he says action is needed right away to help people who can't pay the rent as the pandemic drags on.

Meanwhile, as with many other aspects of the coronavirus outbreak, there are disparities along socioeconomic and racial lines. Panameño says her group did a national survey to see who was having trouble paying their bills after the pandemic struck.

"Twenty-five percent of Latinos had already fallen behind with their payments," she says. "Twenty-eight percent of African Americans had fallen behind. That compares to 12% of whites that had fallen behind."

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/03/867856602/millions-of-americans-skipping-payments-as-tidal-wave-of-defaults-and-evictions-


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 9:38 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:



Tiago Simões said:
I might disagree, I never had Trump in my estimation. But I think we can all agree that Trumps reaction to this has been a joke, to say the least.

Ceisiwr said:
I wouldn’t call it wise.

tobes said:
Yes and Mattis is hardly some radical lefty:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

I wonder though, how much popular support does Trump have on this? Is it really 35+%??

Malcolm wrote:
Read it and weep:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 9:35 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:



Ceisiwr said:
I wouldn’t call it wise.

tobes said:
Yes and Mattis is hardly some radical lefty:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

I wonder though, how much popular support does Trump have on this? Is it really 35+%??

tkp67 said:
If not more. It is an incredible dynamic and I know a number of very intelligent, virtuous and compassionate people who still stand by him even after loss to the virus.

A mind need only a tiny tether to cast a whole swath of good aside.

This is why I do my best to respect Trumpers and appeal to how they carry themselves because those with virtue would never do the same things he does. When I appeal to that aspect in that manner there isn't much dialog but empty stares and bouts of silence.

Some things make us grasp harder, which makes reason more difficult to permeate.

Addressing the mindset while appeal to the conscious is tricky but not impossible.

Malcolm wrote:
All the trumpsters I know have called Obama the N word in my presence. In Massachusetts. There are no virtuous trumpsters. All of the people who voted for trump, who have any shred of decency, realized they erred and will choose differently. Other wise they own all the havoc he has wreaked upon this nation and the world.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 9:20 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
Which socialism did you have in mind? There are quite a variety to choose from. But as is usual, blinkered conservatives conflate all socialism with Marxist-Leninism.
Having been a Communist for 10 years im quite familiar with all of the different flavours. Any system which seeks to supplant capitalism will have to use force and violence, since individuals are not just going to hand over their property. You will also have to stop people like me from coming to power and privatising again. I read your eco-anarchist link last night. None of that can be achieved without force.


Malcolm wrote:
You suffer from a serious lack of understanding of the environmental consequences of industrial capitalism. There are no market-based solutions to climate change.

Ceisiwr said:
The peoples of the Americas and Australia were "left alone." They never came up with "capitalism." Ditto for India, China, Africa, etc.
No, we gave it to them.

Malcolm wrote:
Which demonstrates that your thesis is not true. And we did not “give” capitalism to the world, we imposed it upon the world by force of arms and tsunamis of blood in the interest of profit by importing slave labor to create commodities for European markets, returning nothing at all in terms of culture and benefits to the countries we’ve pillaged.


Ceisiwr said:
Still, for the most part if you leave people alone then eventually people will trade their surplus on an open market. Profit will be sought and gained. Its not much from there to re-investing in the business to make more money. You just need to wait for someone to have the idea.

Malcolm wrote:
Trade does not necessarily = capitalism.

Ceisiwr said:
Of course, if you have an oppressive system like Feudalism then it becomes harder to get to capitalism from merchant trading. Hence my point, leave the traders be and you will get industry (which is a good thing).

Malcolm wrote:
I am surprised you fall for this Marxist canard.

Ceisiwr said:
Modern capitalism grew out of the colonial expansion of sea-faring nations of Western Europe following 1492, along with its attendant necessity, slavery. Modern capitalism is founded on genocide and slavery. It could not have possibly arisen without it. When you plant a tree in poisoned soil, your yield will be poisoned fruit. Specifically, modern Capitalism is an Anglo-American development, which again, was cultivated in the soil of white supremacy, slavery, exploitation, and genocide.
Slavery and colonialism had its part to play in how we ended up with capitalism today, although its not the whole story. However, as I said, without force if people are left alone to freely associate and trade then eventually it will develop. Its merely an extension of market trading after all. If the conditions were better and he caught on to the idea, Anathapindika could have become a fine capitalist being the rich banker that he was.

Malcolm wrote:
But you cannot give a single instance where capitalism established itself without force. Without force and the threat of violence, capital markets of the kind which characterize modern capitalism cannot function at all, especially if people are “left to themselves.” Modern capitalism functions through the suppression of markets, not through a so-called “free market.” For example, Monsanto.

It may surprise you to learn that I have indeed read Hayek, and I agree with his thesis that the central planning which characterizes certain kinds of authoritarian socialism is inefficient. I disagree with the conclusion that many people draw from this, however, capitalism is the only alternative or even most desirable alternative to such an undesirable economic system, since it clearly isn’t, given that its history is just as bloody, ecologically harmful, and nonvirtuous as political systems grounded in the pseudoscience of dialectical materialism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 5:37 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
I wouldn't say so, since you can be racist and still be tolerant. The map showed levels of racist prejudice, not intolerance. Is the west grossly racially intolerant, or intolerant in general? I don't think it is.

Bundokji said:
Racist prejudice would not matter unless somehow associated with intolerance. Conflating racism with lack of tolerance is what liberals accuse conservatives of most often. As an exemption, leftists would often describe themselves as "race conscious" hence identity politics is emphasized in their rhetoric, but they would not call themselves racist.

Malcolm wrote:
Identity politics is a right wing trip.

You people need to read John Rawls, A Theory of Justice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 5:16 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
I would like to see the EU collapse.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course you would.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 5:14 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
Grigoris



Nope. By being against the rioting mob i am not pro police brutality.

Norwegian said:
Are you aware that countless innocent and peaceful protesters across the US, women and men, have been violently attacked by police? With tear gas, rubber bullets, batons, and so on. These are not rioters in any way imaginable. And yet they have been attacked, beaten, shot at, gassed, etc. For no reason other than the fact that the police that does this - across the US - are seemingly high and buzzing on power abuse.

You seem to willfully ignore this.

Ceisiwr said:
Tear gas, rubber bullets and batons are used in order for the police to protect themselves and for crowd dispersal.

Malcolm wrote:
Bullshit.

Ceisiwr said:
It becomes police brutality when they unjustifiably use these means, such as hemming in a crowd and tear gassing them when they have no chance to disperse or beating someone to a pulp.

Malcolm wrote:
For example, Lafayette Park.

BTW, from the point of view of the American Right, Britain is a socialist hellhole.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 5:12 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
Socialism being totally devoid of violence of course. Oh, wait. Leave people alone and you will get capitalism. As for brutality, that is a sad fact of human existence. Its not surprising really, seeing as how we are apes.

Malcolm wrote:
Which socialism did you have in mind? There are quite a variety to choose from. But as is usual, blinkered conservatives conflate all socialism with Marxist-Leninism.

The peoples of the Americas and Australia were "left alone." They never came up with "capitalism." Ditto for India, China, Africa, etc.

Modern capitalism grew out of the colonial expansion of sea-faring nations of Western Europe following 1492, along with its attendant necessity, slavery. Modern capitalism is founded on genocide and slavery. It could not have possibly arisen without it. When you plant a tree in poisoned soil, your yield will be poisoned fruit. Specifically, modern Capitalism is an Anglo-American development, which again, was cultivated in the soil of white supremacy, slavery, exploitation, and genocide. Just ask my highland ancestors. You can go to Nova Scotia and hear recordings of people who experienced and recalled the genocidal behavior of the British Empire during the clearances.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 4:57 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Ceisiwr said:
What nonsensical drivel. The police are not enemy combatants...

Malcolm wrote:
Not in white neighborhoods in the US. In black and latino neighborhoods, it is an entirely different story.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 3:25 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Dan74 said:
There is hardly a word of a concrete proposal.

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, there are many concrete proposals, which, in this country are systematically blocked by the Right. But in order to understand what these proposals are, you have to understand what systemic racism is:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 3:08 AM
Title: Re: Visualization and Space
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Apropos of "setting the mood."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 2:11 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/us/politics/trump-protests.html

Unknown said:
WASHINGTON — President Trump on Wednesday first denied and then acknowledged that he had gone to a secure bunker in the White House  as protesters  demonstrated nearby but said he went there for an “inspection,” not because of concerns over his safety.

“Well, it was a false report,” Mr. Trump said during an interview with Brian Kilmeade of Fox News Radio, who had asked if he had been brought to the bunker along with his family as protests continued.

But then Mr. Trump reversed himself, and said he had gone to the bunker. But did not say when he went or with whom. “I wasn’t down — I went down during the day, and I was there for a tiny little short period of time, and it was much more for an inspection, there was no problem during the day.”

Mr. Trump added that he had be there “two, two and a half” times before because he had “done different things” related to inspecting the bunker.

The president’s account was contradicted by a person with firsthand knowledge who told The New York Times in a report published Sunday that on Friday night, Secret Service agents nervous for his safety abruptly rushed him to an underground bunker used in the past during terrorist attacks.

A second official familiar with the events said the agents acted after the White House’s security status was changed to “red” amid the protests, a warning of a heightened threat. Officials said the president was never really in danger, but that he and his family were rattled by the sometimes violent protests near the White House.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 4th, 2020 at 1:18 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
DNS said:
I am sure you have seen or heard on the news of them [the police] responding to assaults, armed robberies, attempted murders, shootings, etc?

Malcolm wrote:
They do not do this very well in black and latino neighborhoods, where they generally behave like an occupying army, rather then peace officers. However, they do this quite well in wealthy neighborhoods with lots of white people, who have money to afford such protection.

BTW, assaults against persons are crimes against property, since our bodies are property. It is just that in America, the property of whites, including their bodies, is more highly valued than the property of blacks, latinos, and native people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 9:58 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Grigoris said:
CS is really nasty (speaking from experience), even in an open space with a moderate wind it is still pretty damn awful.

Malcolm wrote:
Pepper spray is no better.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 9:55 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 9:55 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:



Dan74 said:
"in times of war"

Malcolm wrote:
Right, so something banned in times of war is ok to use on civilians during peacetime? Is that how I am to understand your response?



Dan74 said:
From an interview with Jamil Dakwar, director of the human rights program with the American Civil Liberties Union:

https://www.pri.org/stories/2019-07-31/tear-gas-has-been-banned-warfare-why-do-police-still-use-it

[T]he Geneva Convention bans the use of tear gas from war. Why is that not mandated for civilians?

It really goes back to the Chemical Weapons Convention. At the time when it was negotiated in the 1990s, there was a lot of pressure to ban chemical weapons and they were used by law enforcement. That obviously got pushback from many countries who said, "Well, we can't really give up this weapon because if we don't use tear gas we will have to resort to more lethal weapons." The compromise that was reached was to leave that option open for using tear gas or riot control agents in law enforcement and only in law enforcement.

Malcolm wrote:
Not a good excuse.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 9:36 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/cia-veterans-who-monitored-crackdowns-abroad-see-troubling-parallels-in-trump-handling-of-protests/2020/06/02/7ab210b8-a4f6-11ea-bb20-ebf0921f3bbd_story.html

Unknown said:
The scenes have been disturbingly familiar to CIA analysts accustomed to monitoring scenes of societal unraveling abroad — the massing of protesters, the ensuing crackdowns and the awkwardly staged displays of strength by a leader determined to project authority.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 9:33 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 9:33 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Use of tear gas classified as a war crime under Geneva convention:
That kind of treatment often causes permanent damage, or worse, as in the case of 37 Egyptian prisoners killed by police who fired US-bought CS gas into a locked police truck. As in the cases of the women in Bahrain and elsewhere who have miscarried after getting splashed with CS for the crime of protest. The Geneva Convention identifies all forms of tear gas as chemical weapons, and bars their use in times of war.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/06/trump-dc-protest-tear-gas-park-police/

Dan74 said:
"in times of war"

Malcolm wrote:
Right, so something banned in times of war is ok to use on civilians during peacetime? Is that how I am to understand your response?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 9:22 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Use of tear gas classified as a war crime under Geneva convention:
That kind of treatment often causes permanent damage, or worse, as in the case of 37 Egyptian prisoners killed by police who fired US-bought CS gas into a locked police truck. As in the cases of the women in Bahrain and elsewhere who have miscarried after getting splashed with CS for the crime of protest. The Geneva Convention identifies all forms of tear gas as chemical weapons, and bars their use in times of war.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/06/trump-dc-protest-tear-gas-park-police/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 9:17 PM
Title: Re: What is the application of practicing nagarjuna middle way in real life?
Content:
confusedlayman said:
If someone reads and want to apply nagarjuna middle way discourse in real life, how would he do? will he know that all things have no position and simple dont have clinging or no intentional action? what is the real application in terms of experience ? pls use conventional language and words to say so i can grasp whats the truth

Malcolm wrote:
Practice Mahayana. Aryadeva’s 400 verses and Shantideva’s Bodhicaryavatara are essentially manuals on how to practice Mahayana from a madhyamaka perspective.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 9:02 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Corrosive Effects of Tear Gas Could Intensify Coronavirus Pandemic
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/us/tear-gas-risks-protests-coronavirus.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 8:59 PM
Title: Re: Monastic Academy
Content:
Wayfarer said:
Members might be interested in this site.

https://www.monasticacademy.com/

Malcolm wrote:
From the times yesterday:

A Latter-Day Rip Van Winkle Emerges, Blinking, Into the Post-Virus World
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/us/coronavirus-meditation.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 8:46 PM
Title: Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06/sars-cov-2-looks-like-a-hybrid-of-viruses-from-two-different-species/


Unknown said:
One of the longest-running questions about this pandemic is a simple one: where did it come from? How did a virus that had seemingly never infected a human before make a sudden appearance in our species, equipped with what it needed to sweep from China through the globe in a matter of months?

Analysis of the virus's genome was ambiguous. Some analyses placed its origin within the local bat population. Others highlighted similarities to pangolins, which might have been brought to the area by the wildlife trade. Less evidence-based ideas included an escape from a research lab or a misplaced bioweapon. Now, a US-based research team has done a detailed analysis of a large collection of viral genomes, and it finds that evolution pieced together the virus from multiple parts—most from bats, but with a key contribution from pangolins.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 8:32 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
PeterC said:
GWB may have led a fairly awful administration but he was not a bad person.  He and Obama have displayed far more leadership in the past few days than has the sitting president.

Grigoris said:
Ummmm, wasn't GWB a war criminal?  I seem to remember him being one.

Malcolm wrote:
By any rational measure.


Grigoris said:
Kind of makes you realise how screwed American politics really is.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because slavery.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 7:30 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd Protests
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Strongly agree with Nemo.

Nemo said:
I did get a real kick out of the burnt police station. 1 down 19,478 to go.

DNS said:
Not sure if you're being facetious or if you're serious. If serious, who would you call if your family was being attacked by a home invasion? (and there was no escape route)

Nemo said:
Sounds centrist but OK.

I am a soldier trained for CQB. Police have significantly less training than I do. I am trained almost exclusively in using lethal force. I guess I would call on the Buddhas to make me merciful. Not that it would ever be an issue. Where I live I am more likely to be hit by lightning and orders of magnitude more likely to be killed by a cow. You don't seem to understand what police are for. In that situation to have an officer arrive 20 minutes too late with a pencil and notebook would not be particularly helpful.

Police were not designed to protect the public. They were designed to protect property. It is obvious from their actions that their main job is to protect capitalism. I didn't see many Wall Street criminals go to jail now or in 2008 did you? But black men go to jail for such crimes as standing on the street or not having money. Police brutality is inherent in capitalism and capitalism cannot exist without violence.

To quote black activist Boots Riley; "You cannot have full employment under Capitalism.

Capitalism must have a certain percentage of unemployed ppl to exist.

When unemployment rates lower past a certain point- u see WSJournal, FTimes, etc worry because it means that wages go up- &stock values go down- in real time
There must be an army of unemployed workers so that bosses can keep wages low by threatening workers with the idea of being replaced. The bigger that army is- the workers supposed "competition"- the lower the wages are.

And the point is to keep wages as low as they can
f there was full employment, workers could tell the boss "I want $75 an hour or I'm out" and the boss couldnt replace them.  Theyd have to give in to demands of workers without much organizing needed

Businesses must make more money each year than the last- so this wouldnt work.
So, Capitalism needs an army of unemployed workers in order to exist.

What do you call an army of unemployed workers?

You call them hungry. They need to eat.

And they don't have a job, because Capitalism needs them to be unemployed and desperate.
That army of unemployed workers isn't going to just let themselves or their families starve and be homeless.

They are going to go into illegal business.
Hell- even many folks with legal jobs that don't pay enough will need to do this for supplemental income.
ll business- legal and illegal- uses violence to regulate itself

If a hotel next2 offices of Twitter decided to make a golf course thru twitter offices, @Jack
wld say "no, I have a deed"

The deed only matters cuz there are men w guns- the police- who will physically enforce it
During prohibition, when liquor was illegal
U rob the liquor dude- gangsters come after u
U rob the liquor dude now- the police come after u

20 yrs ago when weed was illegal
U rob the weed dude- his friends come after u
Now u rob the weed dude- the police come after u

Same shit
illegal business doesn't have the police or the courts on to regulate it like legal business does.

"You can't go to court and say "your honor, I was supposed to be buying a whole kilo of cocaine- clearly this is half baking soda. I demand restitution!"
There's no zoning board to complain to
"This block is only zoned for one cocaine vendor, if this guy wants to vend cocaine in the same area, he's gonna have to get a special permit. That is, unless he can agree to stick to vending heroin."
So illegal business practitioners have to regulate business themselves. As you see with police and legal business- regulating business takes physical force and violence. You can't have business without violence.
You can't have business w/o violence, and
you can't have unemployment w/o illegal business, and
you can't have capitalism without unemployment.

Therefore, you can't have capitalism without poverty, unemployment, so-called "crime", and violence.
But- how does the ruling class tell the whole working class- who, in the US, is largely White- that their poverty and low wages is something that is built into the economic system? That the wealth of the Bezoses and Bloombergs of the world RELY on their poverty?

They don't.
They teach the working class- thru media conglomerates they own (news & entertainment)- that low wages, poverty, and violence that grows out of that is is due to the bad decisions of the impoverished.

That the poverty they experience is something that can be fixed by unlearning

(the Bezoses and Bloombergs of the world don't have to personally edit or produce it to put this out- they just hire the editors and writers who don't challenge this view. Not hard- many of them come from similar backgrounds and/or training/education and therefore political view)
But how do the GET AWAY with telling the WHOLE working class that their low wages and poverty is built in to capitalism- without the working class deciding to get rid of the ruling class?

They don't.
They point to Black people and other people of color and say to the white working class: "look at those savages.  Theyre violent, their culture is lacking what they need to thrive in this system, they don't work hard, they have a weaker family structure than white ppl, etc etc"
"that is poverty- and Black people and other POC are in poverty because of their own doing, when in actuality capitalism works fine and is where you can get RICH if you do it right"

"here watch CSI:frak, it'll prove it to you"
They bolster the lie: "Black neighborhoods have more crime and violence than White neighborhoods"

Only if u lump the Bel Airs in w White working class

Studies show: if u compare Black communities to white communities of the SAME INCOME LEVEL,
crime & violence levels r the same
And that way they get the white working class to say "I'm not like them at all- I'm morally upstanding. If I do have some financial problems, it's cause of the couple little adjustments I need to make. Not the economic system. At least I'm not them."
and that's when you get white ppl in families who make $22k a year calling themselves MIDDLE CLASS and aligning themselves w the ruling class.

And this is not just Trump supporters. Look at Elon Musk's twitter and you'll find a gang of ppl kissing his ass, many w very little $
But now that poverty and the "crime" and violence that comes from it has been defined as a personal problem,

and furthermore- racistly defined as one derived from the culture of the community that it is supposedly happening in more-
If police are supposed to actually want to "fight crime", then they would go to the source of the "crime". This would be the ruling class. This would be the billionaires who cause the low wages and poverty and "crime" that, as I show above, is necessitated by their actions.
We've seen enough CSI:frak to know that they are always supposedly going for the guy at the top. the guy that is the ringleader of said crime.

If cops were in it to stop "crime" and the violence that comes from it, they wldn't be cops, they would be revolutionary organizers
Because the source of the crime isn’t in the Black communities other POC communities, or even White working class communities- the source of the crime is on 5th ave, in Bel Air, and silicon valley.
But, since the racist ideas about Black people and other POC- as I laid out above- are necessitated by capitalism, the job of the police in the Black community is functionally one of a combatant against the community.
It doesn’t matter, how nice the cop is in their personal life, or what basketball team they coach on the weekend, or even what their conscious intentions are-
the job of police is simply- at best- to lock up folks for being involved in their own survival in an economic system that dictates- and thrives off the fact- they are in poverty.
And their ARE other crimes that aren’t directly to do with a direct crime of economic survival, but even many of those are the outgrowth of the culture that comes from whatever the local industry is. Fishing villages sing fishing songs.
The only way for cops to feel like they are doing the right thing- the only way for them to function in their job- is for them to subscribe to racist notions of violence, crime, and poverty- even if the cop themselves is Black or POC.
If want to stop these things, we have to get rid of capitalism.

A mvmnt that understands that also understands where our power lies."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 7:25 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:



PeterC said:
Neither are police, frankly.  I would prefer soldiers - real soldiers, not national guard, and not contractors - they have more discipline and training on use of weapons. But when you're at the point of using military-level force to subdue a civilian population, the government has failed. Right now there are protests in every state in the country.

Malcolm wrote:
The election of Trump has inexorably led to a failure of government. As far as soldiers policing American streets, no way. Opposed.

PeterC said:
It’s that or having the police get out all their military toys and kill more people.  Neither is a good outcome but fewer people will die if the army do it.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I don’t agree. Not with this guy in the White House.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 7:03 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
bubbajohn said:
Is that an authentic Hilterian image?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hitler-holding-bible/

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is a manipulated image. Anyone can see that easily. The tiny hand in the Hitler image is photoshopped from the trump photo.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 6:58 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Toenail said:
Isnt it better to send the army in? Is this equal to martial law? I am asking seriously. The situation gets way out of hand, the police is not trained and very unprofessional. Soldiers probably will have better trigger control, can handle these situations better, are more respected by the communities, because the relationship is not poisoned by past experiences etc. Also, many civilians now are taking damage. In Chicago a race war between Latino and Black Gangs started and in Latino neighbourhoods there are many reports of Latino Gang member shooting indiscriminately black people. They pulled out a pregnant woman in little village and killed her in front of her husband. These things are all on video and can be found on the internet.

Tiago Simões said:
Soldiers aren't trained for crowd control.

PeterC said:
Neither are police, frankly.  I would prefer soldiers - real soldiers, not national guard, and not contractors - they have more discipline and training on use of weapons. But when you're at the point of using military-level force to subdue a civilian population, the government has failed. Right now there are protests in every state in the country.

Malcolm wrote:
The election of Trump has inexorably led to a failure of government. As far as soldiers policing American streets, no way. Opposed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 6:57 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Toenail said:
Isnt it better to send the army in? Is this equal to martial law? I am asking seriously. The situation gets way out of hand, the police is not trained and very unprofessional. Soldiers probably will have better trigger control, can handle these situations better, are more respected by the communities, because the relationship is not poisoned by past experiences etc. Also, many civilians now are taking damage. In Chicago a race war between Latino and Black Gangs started and in Latino neighbourhoods there are many reports of Latino Gang member shooting indiscriminately black people. They pulled out a pregnant woman in little village and killed her in front of her husband. These things are all on video and can be found on the internet.

Malcolm wrote:
Soldiers, generally speaking are not properly trained in police work, including crowd control. There is no race war between Blacks and Latinos, tension is not a “race war.”
https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/ct-life-chicago-latino-neighborhoods-gangs-floyd-protests-20200603-dsui2w2dabdy7cgxxkbz7a3c3q-story.html

As far as a woman being shot in Little  Village, I am failing to find any news story of this. There was a women shot in this place on March 25th, who died a few days later, and a pregnant women was murdered there last May, but as far as I can tell this is not an accurate report.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 11:15 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/m7jvq8/white-supremacist-group-identity-evropa-posed-as-antifa-on-twitter-and-called-for-looting-and-violence

Unknown said:
A white supremacist group linked to deadly right-wing violence in Charlottesville in 2017 used a fake Twitter account to pose as “Antifa” and incite violence during the current wave of protests against police brutality.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 10:04 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/state-minnesota-files-civil-rights-charge-against-minneapolis-police-department-n1222476?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma

Unknown said:
State of Minnesota files civil rights charge against Minneapolis Police Department
The inquiry, stemming from the death of George Floyd, will be designed to root out "systemic racism that is generations deep," Gov. Tim Walz told reporters.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 9:53 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 9:22 AM
Title: Re: Sakya view about Dorje Legpa
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I have also never read an opinion about it. For context, in Sakya Mahakala is an oath bound protector, he is also regarded as beyond samsara. The name “oath bound” is not a reliable indicator of the status of a given dharmapala—they are all oath bound.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 8:12 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
PeterC said:
GWB may have led a fairly awful administration but he was not a bad person.  He and Obama have displayed far more leadership in the past few days than has the sitting president.

Malcolm wrote:
A corpse demonstrates more leadership than the sitting president.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 5:17 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/dyzva7/a-white-man-from-illinois-allegedly-brought-bombs-to-start-a-riot-at-the-minneapolis-george-floyd-protest


And now this:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 4:31 AM
Title: Re: Sakya view about Dorje Legpa
Content:
cloudburst said:
Hello Sakya peeps

Can anybody report on what they have been told about Dorje Legpa? In particular, do your teachers regard him as a Oath-bound, worldly deity, or as an enlightened protector? I'm informally polling different schools' views on the matter.

many thanks!

Malcolm wrote:
Dorleg is not among the Sakya protectors.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Required reading:

https://daily.jstor.org/institutionalized-racism-a-syllabus/

Unknown said:
Institutionalized Racism: A Syllabus

How can we help students understand George Floyd’s death in the context of institutionalized racism?

The United States has seen escalating protests over the past week, following the death of George Floyd while in custody of the Minneapolis police. Educators everywhere are asking how can we help students understand that this was not an isolated, tragic incident perpetrated by a few bad individuals, but part of a broader pattern of institutionalized racism. Institutional racism—a term coined by Stokely Carmichael (later known as Kwame Ture) and Charles V. Hamilton in their 1967 book Black Power: The Politics of Liberation in America—is what connects George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery with Philando Castile, Eric Garner, Emmett Till, and the thousands of other people of color who have been killed because they were black in America.

This context seems vital for discussions both inside and outside the classroom. The following articles, published over the course of JSTOR Daily’s five years try to provide such context. We will be updating this page with more stories and are working to acquire a reading list about institutionalized racism in the near future. (Note: Some readers may find some of the stories in this syllabus or the photos used to illustrate them disturbing. Teachers may wish to use caution in assigning them to students.)


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 1:33 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:


krish5 said:
This is not a true statement about protests all peaceful, i have seen protesters do things to cops too, they are not all innocent.

Malcolm wrote:
Like what? Throw water bottles at them? Coffee? In this round of things, rock throwing has always been presaged by the police using teargas. Sometimes the tear gas canisters and flash bangs are thrown back at the police.


krish5 said:
I am speaking here of Buddhist principles. This not a general forum or FB, this is a Buddhist forum.

We are supposed to have higher ideals and standards. We are supposed to be aware of the karmic consequences of our actions.

Malcolm wrote:
These are not my actions, nor yours.

krish5 said:
Years ago i heard a Tibetan Buddhist speak and he told about when the Chinese invaded Tibet. He had tears in his eyes telling about his own Father, who got a gun and was shooting and killing the Chinese. With tears, he said "My Father probably went to Hell for this." We prayed for him and all the rituals, but killing and violence like this, is just wrong, even under the circumstances.

Malcolm wrote:
I have two gurus, both pretty famous. Both of them were freedom fighters who were imprisoned by the Chinese for many years. One of them used to write a wrathful syllable on his bullets in order to deliver the consciousness of his targets into the dharmadhātu. I had another guru, also pretty famous, he ran away. To be, they are all buddhas.

krish5 said:
a little one sided to me, what you guys are presenting, like the protests are all peaceful and all the cops are violent, that is just not accurate or truthful.



Malcolm wrote:
All of the violence in the past several days has been initiated by the police shooting tear gas, rubber bullets, pepper rounds, and using pepper spray on peaceful, nonviolent protestors. The looters are not protestors, as mentioned above.

You see, where I live, a mostly white rural community in Western MA, the police are peace officers (just to be clear, I did not always live here, I lived for many years in the Boston area, where there were lots of different people). But the police in many urban areas often behave like they are a part of an occupying army (think Boston, NYC, etc.). Most of them do not live in the areas they patrol. They do not know the people they are supposed to be serving. The police have been increasingly militarized over the past thirty years and more. When there are peaceful protests, they show up in APC's, wearing heavy armor and weapons to face off against unarmed protestors, and regularly use excessive force. They act like forces of repression in these instances because they are being used as forces of repression. They are not protecting me. They are not protecting you. They are not protecting the protestors. They are violating people's civil rights.

There are also police who have done the right thing, like in Camden NJ, where the police joined the marchers, and other places, where they have taken a knee, or otherwise, showed their support for the protestors.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 1:10 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
Minobu said:
I don't get that whole independent autopsy showing something different than the official autopsy.

Malcolm wrote:
The former is not subject to politics in the same way the latter is. But they both concluded that George Floyd was a victim of a homocide. The differences between the two reports will doubtless be subjected to examination during the trials.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 3rd, 2020 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
krish5 said:
"The looting, while regrettable, is totally understandable, and on balance, isn’t that big a deal."

I totally disagree. It is more than regrettable, it is violence, it is wrong, there are karmic consequences. It is hurting lots of people, causing much suffering, it is indeed a big deal!

Malcolm wrote:
Looting harms property, which, for the most part, is insured. Property can restored, lives cannot.

krish5 said:
Many black small businesses have been destroyed or heavily damaged by the looting and they wont be able to re-open without go fund me pages which are already popping up on Facebook i see, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Great, so they will be able to rebuild, eventually. Even some of them are sympathetic with looting. They live in their own communities, so they know how hard it is for some people. And, a lot of the violence against property is being done by far-right agitators, boogaloo bois and so on. It is not "Antifa."

krish5 said:
There is a difference between peaceful protests and looting, rioting, anarchy!

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and peaceful protests are what has been happening, apart from police violence against protestors. Looting is not part of the protests.

krish5 said:
To accept looting and say it is understandable, and isnt a big deal, imo, is being just as much the problem as any of this.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a question of accept/reject. It's happening, and it is a result of systematic social and economic repression. When people are kept in a state of poverty through systemic racism, this is the result. You can, from a position of privilege, express your dismay, but we live in a world where the very wealthy, people like Trump, loot the world, everyday. Just take a look around you. How do you think modern capitalism functions? It certainly does not function through honesty and hard work. It functions through deep international power differentials which allow corporations to loot the world with impunity.

krish5 said:
Correct me if i am wrong, but in Buddhist teachings, any violence and stealing and hurting other sentient beings is wrong and hurtful and has negative consequences. Would the Buddha stand by and support looting and say it is no big deal?

Malcolm wrote:
These people are not Buddhists, so for them, the Buddha's point of view is quite irrelevant. Their karma is their karma, not my karma.

Basically, what we see is that police brutality is being brought bear against many thousands of people all across the country who are not involved in looting, using crimes against property as an excuse. So I am not that sympathetic with Gucci, etc., luxury stores that cater to white elites. Looting is a frustrated response to police violence. It may not be pretty, it may not be skillful, but it is entirely understandable, given the circumstances.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 2nd, 2020 at 11:35 PM
Title: Re: George Floyd
Content:
DNS said:
(Not sure if this has already been mentioned or not):

What started the whole event and the killing was a store employee calling the police on George Floyd because he tried to pay for items with a counterfeit $20 bill. I would guess about 99.99% of people who have a counterfeit bill don't even know that it is counterfeit and received it in change from some other store or place. I have received numerous counterfeit bills over the course of my life so far. I never for a moment thought about calling the police on them.

And then of course this is not to excuse the actions of the police involved, but the police should never even have been called.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this has been mentioned. But it is good to mention it again.


