﻿Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 4:32 AM
Title: Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Well, killing animals is not the  "not taking of life" indicated in the first precept. We can know this because if novice or bhikṣu kills a human being, they are expelled from the Sangha. Killing an animal, like drinking alcohol, is downfall requiring confession only, with no punishment, one of the 96 pācittiyas in the Thervāda Vinaya.

Grigoris said:
I disagree.  This may show that killing of animals is not considered as serious as killing humans, it does not show that killing animals is not included in the First Precept.  If it meant that then it would not require confession, if it was okay to kill animals, it would not require anything at all.

Anyway, for me, not being a monastic and all, the Vinaya is not my sole source of moral/ethical standard.

Malcolm wrote:
Why would the Buddha have a higher standard for lay people than for bhikṣus and novices? That does not make any sense. And no one said it was "ok." However, in the Vinaya, masturbating is a much more serious downfall than killing an animal —— requiring not only confession but temporary censure by the Sangha. This punishment means that you are put in isolation, and if you meet someone, you have to tell them what you did. By contrast, if you have killed an animal, you merely confess that  you have done so at Posadha and the offense is purified without any further punishment or notice. Harming plants is the same level of downfall as killing an animal, BTW.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 4:12 AM
Title: Re: Alan Wallace DZ related Q&A
Content:
ratna said:
I just meant his format of teaching is such that it includes the full reading of the texts he teaches, so that one receives the transmission if one attends in person.

Malcolm wrote:
Ok.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 4:11 AM
Title: Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Technically, murder is the unlawful killing of one human being by another human being.

Grigoris said:
Technically...  Yes.  If you are a lawyer.  I'm not.  I am using it in the sense of premeditated killing.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, killing animals is not the  "not taking of life" indicated in the first precept. We can know this because if novice or bhikṣu kills a human being, they are expelled from the Sangha. Killing an animal, like drinking alcohol, is downfall requiring confession only, with no punishment, one of the 96 pācittiyas in the Thervāda Vinaya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 4:03 AM
Title: Re: Alan Wallace DZ related Q&A
Content:
ratna said:
His teachings are trilungs, i.e. reading transmission interspersed with oral commentary, using his own translations.
I've not attended in person but have listened to some of his retreats that are available for free as podcasts.

Malcolm wrote:
Can't get a lung from a recording...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 3:49 AM
Title: Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified
Content:
Ricky said:
And no hunting isn't murder, that is being a bit too dramatic.

Grigoris said:
No it isnot.  The first precept teaches that one should not take the life of a sentient being.  So if killing a human is murder, then killing an animal... Would you call the Aboriginals who hunted bison murderers?
Completely irrelevant.

Malcolm wrote:
Technically, murder is the unlawful killing of one human being by another human being.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 3:27 AM
Title: Re: What is Dharmakaya?
Content:
krodha said:
Dharmakāya is not the space between two thoughts.

Aryjna said:
Yes, ChNNR points that out many times, it seems it is a relatively common mistake.

muni said:
Nobody said "is".

Malcolm wrote:
Sure you did:
Between two thoughts, there is a gap, indescridable openess revealing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 3:05 AM
Title: Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations
Content:
DGA said:
See, this is one of those times where the liberal Western values of 1) accountability to reason in public discourse, 2) respect for the equality of persons regardless of gender, and 3) protection of the vulnerable from violence in institutional settings have real merit.

I'm highly skeptical of those doing their trade in the Marketplace of Spirituality under the banner of resisting or rejecting those values.

context: this thread, starting somewhere around this post or the page before (?)

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=26803&start=100#p412120

Josef said:
Since all three of those values are firmly in accord with fundamental dharma, I'm more than skeptical of any "dharma teacher" who resists or rejects them as well.
Especially under the guise of being a less clever Trungpa knock off, which is what we seem to be seeing a lot of in today.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, one should completely avoid any teacher who is into the narrative that a guru's job is to mess with their student's egos. It simply does not help the student on the path of liberation and in fact, often causes a lot of damage in the process.

A guru's job is to teach a path, not act as an impromptu shrink who completely lacks any professional training.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 3:01 AM
Title: Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel
Content:
DGA said:
Maybe this person will learn something this time?

Malcolm wrote:
From everything I have seen, very unlikely.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 2:59 AM
Title: Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations
Content:
DGA said:
I'm highly skeptical of those doing their trade in the Marketplace of Spirituality under the banner of resisting or rejecting those values.

Malcolm wrote:
You are obviously someone who should just "stick to the Mahāyāna..."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations
Content:
Simon E. said:
Kirkpatrick aka 'Traktung Rinpoche'?

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, the one and the same.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations
Content:


DGA said:
Did this person ever attempt to teach in the United States?

Malcolm wrote:
He was brought to the US by Stewart Kirkpatrick in Michigan (Tsogyelgar), at one point. But something did not work out (I have no details). Kirkpatrick was claiming that he was Namkha's root guru, and Namkha felt compelled to issue a statement rejecting this claim.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 12:55 AM
Title: Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
More in the comments section of this post:


https://buddhism-controversy-blog.com/2013/05/21/use-common-sense-khandro-rinpoche-about-sexual-abuse-by-buddhist-teachers-in-the-tibetan-buddhist-tradition/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 12:37 AM
Title: Re: Does Tarthang Tulku teach dzogchen?
Content:
PeterC said:
So they use something they don’t really understand as an analogy for something the audience doesn’t really understand.

Malcolm wrote:
That would be largely Fritjof Capra's fault. For example:


http://www.sutrajournal.com/science-and-spirituality-by-fritjof-capra

PeterC said:
I read The Tao of Physics some decades ago, and even then it was clear that many of the statements on physics in it were wrong - it was simply written at a point when they didn't know a lot of things that they know now. Frankly it read like someone who'd taken an excess of hallucinogens and convinced themselves that they were vastly cleverer than they really were.

The purveyors of this nonsense seem to be asserting:
(a) Dharma is profound
(b) Quantum physics is profound
(c) Dharma is....quantum physics, somehow.
Perhaps there's more to it than that. But not very much more.

Malcolm wrote:
It is a bit like people being worried about mass—energy conversion when rainbow body is attained -- they really have not understood anything...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 31st, 2017 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: What's your opinion on Triratna Buddhist school?
Content:
Ervin said:
Hi, I was just wandering about what's your opinion on the Triratna Buddhist school?

Malcolm wrote:
Caveat emptor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 30th, 2017 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: Does Tarthang Tulku teach dzogchen?
Content:
PeterC said:
So they use something they don’t really understand as an analogy for something the audience doesn’t really understand.

Malcolm wrote:
That would be largely Fritjof Capra's fault. For example:


http://www.sutrajournal.com/science-and-spirituality-by-fritjof-capra


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 30th, 2017 at 12:24 PM
Title: Re: Dharmakaya in Mahayana
Content:
steveb1 said:
I have kind of skimmed scattered Dharmakaya references in various books, the "richest" of which was one volume by D.T. Suzuki. The notion continues to be mysterious to me, and I was hoping that some readers on here could refine a few points that are puzzling me.

My understanding is that the Dharmakaya is the most inclusive, "first" Buddha Body. It is unknowable to the human intellect and is manifested more "palpably" in the other two Bodies.

The Dharmakaya is not God, a god, or a divine Creator, yet it is described as the primal source of everything. Do I have this correct? Because if It is "the" Source, would It not also be the causal factor for Samsara and Samsara's associated limitations and sufferings?

Even if the Dharmakaya is not a creator, but is nonetheless "the Source", how is its activity explained, if not by creation? Does it express itself in, or as, a kind of serial "Emanation" as in the Kabbalah's conception of the Ein Sof, or in Gnosticism's conception of emanations derived from the Pleroma?

If anyone would care to address these questions, it would be much appreciated.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 30th, 2017 at 7:08 AM
Title: Re: Turmeric
Content:
Simon E. said:
Malcolm, what does Tibetan Medicine say about the use of turmeric as a supplement ?

Malcolm wrote:
Turmeric is generally good, but it is heating, since it is related to ginger. So it can be a bit drying as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 30th, 2017 at 6:00 AM
Title: Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Tsoknyi Rinpoche responds: https://whatnow727.wordpress.com/2017/12/28/tsoknyi-rinpoche-responds/

Josef said:
Another point for basic humanity.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but then there is this:
Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the shrine room, along comes another eye watering revelation. This time it is not Sogyal – but one of his close buddies, a teacher from the Nyingma tradition of Tibetan Buddhism known as Namkha Rinpoche. He runs an outfit called Rigdzin which has centres in several European countries including Spain, Switzerland, the Netherlands and France. Namkha’s career follows a similar pattern to Sogyal’s – unsavoury rumours about his sex life have circulated within diaspora Tibetan Buddhism for many years. And some people have expressed doubts about his qualifications as a lama. Now one brave woman has blown the whistle about her experiences with Namkha – a horror story of exploitation and sexual abuse. This woman, who wants to be known as Tar, was close to Namkha for many years. Her story is corroborated by another individual who also wishes to remain anonymous. Their real names are known to me. Here Is Tar’s story. It was translated from French into English by Peter Robinson and edited by Mary Finnigan. The original French version is available on request.

At the end of 2005 I attended my first teaching in Lausanne given by NR. It was the Four Noble Truths. At 47, I was still looking for answers and this teaching made me want to go deeper.

NR spoke in Tibetan and was translated by a close student. The more advanced students dressed as ngakpas wearing the robes of Vajrayana practitioners. NR presented himself as a Tibetan refugee and a tulku. He is ngakpa, with a wife and 2 daughters.
The question of taking refuge in the 3 jewels and in addition the tantric vows was put to me. I wasn't informed that I would have to accumulate 100,000 prostrations and recite the refuge prayer 100,000 times. Until then I regularly practised recitations and prostrations. I was introduced to chine meditation sessions, which I found beneficial. Up until then, NR showed a peaceful appearance and presented himself as the father lama protector.
Everything changed when I received a call from NR who proposed to me to do a secret tantric practice in order to pacify my mind. I answered that it scared me and that at the same time I wanted to have a calm mind. I vaguely understood that I would be alone with him. He hastened to say that it was not because I was a beautiful woman but a sensitive being that he wanted to bring on the path of enlightenment.

I waited several months before giving him an answer. One day, I got a phone call from NR: he said that he had separated from his wife and had no idea where to sleep... I suggested he contact his secretary but she lived in an apartment right next to NR's wife. I was searching for a solution because I didn't want to invite him to my home, so I rented a room at an inn for him and we met there.

I helped him to settle into the room, then I suggested he should go to eat with the other guests, which he refused. He prepared food in the room and I ate with him in silence. He asked me to stay, saying he had to get up the next day at 4 am to go to see a Lama friend.
Suddenly, without any warning, he began to kiss me. He smellled very bad as if he has not washed for several days. It was an animal sexual relationship in which I had no role. He mumbled prayers in Tibetan and then remained in meditative position with an erection. He asked me to wake him up at 4 o'clock. I was so shocked, not understanding what happened. I did not close my eyes that night, I was in a state of semi stupor, which I believed to be a beginning of a state without thoughts.

When he woke up, he told me not to tell anyone what happened, otherwise a demon would take possession of me.
I continued to frequent the Buddhist centre. In 2008 the community lived on donations from participants, all quite modest financially (I gave 200 francs per month, plus flower offerings, and most of my free time outside my work as a nurse to severely disabled people). The committee and the lama planned to bring HH the Dalai Lama to Lausanne in 2009. A financial guarantee was required in case of cancellation of the event. I had a little money in an account after my divorce (22 years of life together and 3 children). I committed the sum of 25,000 Swiss francs, with the blessing of NR. 
I remember that NR gave a lecture, he was drunk and told the assembly that we were all bad people ... It was already starting to worry me at that moment. The commercial side of the event was also aimed at bailing out the Rigdzin Centre’s finances.

I started to be part of "lama care", the service to the lama doing admin duties during retreats and teachings. It was hard but I did not complain about this slave job. I had to promise not to create discord --- there were many tensions. That's when I discovered that "secret practice" was offered to almost all women in the community. Some left because they were afraid. Only one of them refused because she was married.
If my memory is good, I received another phone call from NR that year. I had to get him by car from his house and bring him to mine. This time it was a degree above the first experience. Still no clear teaching, but a kind of "bad sex party". But Yeshe Tsogyal offered her body, did she not?
Strangely, NR's wife knew nothing about Dharma, she was just a figurehead.

Then NR asked me to become the girlfriend of a half brother of his wife, with the intention that I married him so that he could get his papers. When I discovered the situation, I ended the relationship with the half brother. He was not practising the Dharma and was mocking me.
NR decided to find me a partner in the person of his tailor. What a horror, I measure 1 meter 73 and this little Tibetan was just 1 meter 50. I saw him once and he told me all his misery, his visits to prostitutes, his divorce. I cried partly out of compassion a little out of disgust. I made it clear to NR that it was over.

In 2010, my 87-year-old mother was at the end of her life. She had a strong faith in life, she was a strong and kind person. She was not a Buddhist but appreciated the Dalai Lama. I was looking forward to practising with her. She died on the day a lama was invited to the Rigdzin Centre. He taught powa ...and prayed for my mother (I had goose bumps, this lama was genuine and full of true compassion). His name is Ayang Rinpoche. Of course, my mother was cremated according to the protestant ceremony with just close family there. She passed over in peace.
Shortly after her death, NR asked me for money for the prayers that were made for her in monasteries in Tibet. I am not used to giving money for prayers, for me a prayer is a gift. However, I ardently hoped that my mother would be accompanied in the bardo. 
I discovered a sum of 5000 francs in a box that she left at the bank for me. So, I went with the 5000 francs in cash to see Rinpoche. Oddly, he said "It's a big sum, give it to my wife" I will never know if this money went to the monks or if it was used for the luxurious expenses of his wife. All the mattered to me right then were the 49 days of prayer for my mum.

At the end of the 49 days, I went back to see NR and humbly asked him if he knew where my mother has taken rebirth. His answer shocked me, he told me that he didn't know my mother and could not see how she had reincarnated. The positive side of this great lack of compassion is that I still practised and I promised myself that if one must go to hell for having compassion for her, then I will go with or without NR's blessing.
I also experienced the following in 2010

I drove the translator's girlfriend to Drolo Ling, the Rigzin Centre in the south of France. NR gave an initiation. In the evening I went to sleep in a dormitory with thin walls between each room. To my surprise NR and Rinchen, the president of the French centre entered the "box" next to me. They did not know I was listening, but I heard a conversation in English (NR speaks basic English).
What I heard is beyond my comprehension. Rinchen offered girls from ... 16 years old to NR for practices. The 2 men described them: they are beautiful. ... they were laughing. They are virgins ...

I spoke to the translator's girlfriend that I was shocked because at 16 they are minors in France! She did not take me seriously and I kept that to myself. I have a daughter who was 22 years old at the time and one day NR asked me: Will you give me your daughter?? I told him that I do not make decisions for her and that she would surely not agree.

I have more facts dating back to 2011. I was off work with a broken knee and I thought I would spend a few days at the Rigdzin residential centre Namkha Dzong in southern Spain. I slept in the corridor and almost every night NR made me go up to his room when the others slept. He was brutal, I was in pain but could not scream. I had bruises on my breasts and he pushed his fist into my vagina, which bled. That day he made fun of me asking me in front of other men: Isn't it true that you do not have sex? It was humiliating!

Back in Switzerland I had a gynaecological check. For the first time in my life I had a papilloma virus. My immune system defences were low. I followed a treatment and consulted a therapist. She understood everything and I could talk to her about what had happened.

At this point my body was weakened. I convinced myself that I wanted to continue practising for sentient beings. My poor knee did not allow me to do my daily practices. I could not sit in lotus anymore. One day I was doing my prostrations in the temple when NR surprised me with a cushion to soften my prostration. He made a point to all the practitioners that a student who was using a cushion and had to start her accumulations all over again. I had painfully reached 75,000 prostrations. I came out in tears and learned that if I left once again I would be thrown out of the sangha.
At that time, we were going to receive special teachings. Some students who gave a lot of money were exempted from finishing their practice, I found it unfair, and I told NR about it and he told me that I would have teachings later. One student went and NR said she had maintained a vow of silence for 3 weeks. I said I did not believe it, and he again threatened to throw me out.
So, started the work of psychological destruction: I was the worst, I made him ashamed.I thought to myself that I would not let him throw me out. I will just leave!

I have taken ngakma vows. I remember that NR said that he had forgotten to give me them earlier and that his wife had interceded on my behalf. So, I put on the red and white zen. I remember being uneasy when I had to kneel at the feet of Rinpoche sitting on his throne, like an animal that surrendered. I also told the translator that I had a papilloma virus and that I thought I had caught from him in secret practices. I wanted a little compassion for myself and for all women who exposed themselves to contamination (never a condom). He told me that if I caught HIV it would have been better for me because then there would have been danger. I was nauseated. I said to him: Would you say the same thing if it was your girlfriend who was infected? I was disgusted. He trivialised the situation.

A little incident happened to me the night of taking ngakma vows. I made the water offerings in the temple and there were lots of of small burning candles. It was necessary, as usual, to hurry up. My brand new zen caught fire. Fortunately, I was able to extinguish the flame and not burn myself
I started to avoid going to the annual retreats that took place in Switzerland in Evolène in the canton of Valais. The last retreat I did, I rented a hotel room to avoid having to sleep in a dormitory. (I slept with an insomniac practitioner and his dog, with a practitioner plugged into a respirator, I did not sleep, I even slept on a carpet in the temple).

I decided to make an appointment with NR in his office in Lausanne. It was almost impossible to have an interview without the translator's presence.
I told NR that I had a papilloma virus and that I was certainly not the only one. I told him, with compassion, that he would do well to watch over his wife. (I had learned not long ago that she had been hospitalised for "gynaecological problems.") His wife had undergone a procedure to remove pieces of vaginal mucous that could degenerate into cancer. He said he was going to talk to her.
I said in my polite way that I found these practices dangerous to women's health. I explained to him that it is men who transmit the virus but do not experience any symptoms.

I have stopped following the teachings. I regularly received messages from NR for a few months. He said to me "I was kidding, I'm not going to kick you out, come back because you also worked a lot for this Buddhist centre, take advantage of what you gave" He also added, "You are my dharma darling, I love you, come back ..." I told him that he was my root lama and not my dharma darling. At that time many practitioners left Rinpoche and the sangha.
Rinpoche's secretary is the only one who tried to contact me. He knows a part of my story. He does not agree with these secret practices but at the same time he is not ready to directly oppose NR.

To this day, only one practitioner who has left the sangha, and who is a lawyer, has offered me her support if I testify about the things I saw in Rigdzin and with NR. She offered to confirm several occasions when NR spoke about me with contempt in front of the sangha.
One day in 2015 I received a message from the translator. He stated that I should not come back to Rigdzin, He asked me to resign. I told him I would prefer to go before a public meeting to explain the reason for my absence. I never heard from him in response.
My intention is not to blame NR. I only want to shed light on his actions.
I want to heal and continue to practise kindness for all beings as an ordinary person. Then I will be able to help other women to heal.
I believe that the feminine energy is more than ever necessary for the planet, and for humanity, and I will struggle so that it is preserved and honoured.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1459918927422287/search/?query=NR%20


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 30th, 2017 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
I went hunting with my dad once.

A bunch of elderly men getting very very very very high. Then going out into the woods to chill a bit on the pretension that something is going to be caught/shot.

That's hunting as far as I know it.

Ricky said:
Yeah its all oldies hunting these days. My generation would rather stay at home, eat doritos, and play call of duty on xbox. Very unhealthy lifestyles.

Malcolm wrote:
In my neck of the woods, it is mostly bow hunters...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 30th, 2017 at 12:32 AM
Title: Re: age of death in tibetan astrology
Content:
pemachophel said:
can anyone say anything on the predicted age of death in a tibetan birth horoscope? is this a calculation of one's tshe (lie-span)? how accurate or predictive is this?

Malcolm wrote:
Are you talking about a life reading or a classic horoscope ala Jyotish, etc.?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 29th, 2017 at 11:46 PM
Title: Re: Lots of questions about Dharmapalas & Yidams
Content:
heart said:
I am sorry Pumo, but Kim is an idiot.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 29th, 2017 at 10:56 PM
Title: Re: People to Avoid
Content:
Invokingvajras said:
I'd like to request some further clarification.

I would assume the term often translated as "unmanly men" refers to the five classic descriptions of the pandaka. If anyone happens to have a copy on hand, I'm curious what terminology is used specifically in the Sanskrit or Chinese versions of the text. Perhaps female pandakas would fall under this category as well.

Malcolm wrote:
Also, the Saddharmapundarika Sūtra is of little importance in Indo-Tibetan Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 29th, 2017 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: question about vaisravana
Content:
Grigoris said:
Sorry, my wrong.  I often confuse Vaisravana as an epithet for Dzambhala.

Malcolm wrote:
They are the same.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 29th, 2017 at 6:43 AM
Title: Re: question about vaisravana
Content:
crazy-man said:
Bishamon's (Vaisravana) rank as the most powerful of the four kings is also likely due to his role as king of the north. Says independent scholar Michael D. Gunther: "In Chinese cosmology, still familiar today as 'feng shui 風水,' north is the most dangerous direction, such that dwellings (including the palaces of the Tang and Heian emperors) are built facing in the opposite direction (south). It follows that the Guardian of the North must be the leader of the other directional guardians, and that he must carry the most powerful amulets -- namely, the relics of Buddha's own body -- in order to defend against the malign northern influences. In a practical sense, the north was considered the 'bad' direction for at least two reasons: agriculturally (in the northern hemisphere), the sun is in the south, and therefore a southern exposure is most desirable, and a northern exposure is least desirable (all gardners and farmers know this, even today); and in terms of geopolitics, the Mongol peoples of the north, against whom the Great Wall was built, presented the greatest danger to China throughout much of its history.
http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/bishamonten.shtml

Malcolm wrote:
But this has nothing to do with the Indian legends surrounding Vaiśravana, where the south is regarded as the pernicious direction, associated with Yamarāja.

Vaiśravana is associated with horses and horsemen in Uttarakuru, the northern continent, as well as Guhyakas, a kind of yakṣa who love treasures and secrets.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 29th, 2017 at 6:26 AM
Title: Re: Lama Tsultrim Allione, Jan. 7
Content:
Pero said:
Is this Green Tara the same as we have it in Dzogchen Community or different (as I recall there was more than one Tara practice in AD's termas)?

Malcolm wrote:
Tārā is Tārā.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 29th, 2017 at 6:20 AM
Title: Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified
Content:
Ricky said:
Fresh meat
No hunting allowed in New York state?

Queequeg said:
Are you trying to tell us you hunt? Congratulations.

Hunting is legal and regulated like most jurisdictions. This is anecdotal, but it seems other than Don Jr. with his too-big-for-his-mouth incisors and make-believe safaris to shoot exotic animals inside closed pens, hunting is not all that popular around here anymore. If you were to ask most people, they'd probably more or less tell you that killing things is just not that fun.


Malcolm wrote:
Yup, not as many drunk New Yorkers roaming the woods of New England shooting each other and anything else that moves during hunting season as there used to be say 30 years ago...there was a time though one had to paint one's dog orange so it would not get shot...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 29th, 2017 at 6:15 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Ricky said:
About the white Ah visualization, is it supposed to be visualized from center of the chest or heart?

Malcolm wrote:
Center of the body.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 29th, 2017 at 2:32 AM
Title: Re: People to Avoid
Content:
Invokingvajras said:
in the Sanskrit

Malcolm wrote:
paṇḍaka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 28th, 2017 at 10:05 AM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:


Ricky said:
What happens to those lazy practitioners who receive transmission but are never able to to see the direct perception of vidya? Will they continue to take rebirth in the 6 realms like everyone else?

Malcolm wrote:
Eventually, sooner rather than later, they will meet the teachings again and have another go at it.

Ricky said:
In that case it would be a good idea to combine pure land practice with dzogchen in order to avoid more rebirth in samsaric realms?

Malcolm wrote:
Or any other secondary practice which may be found in Buddhadharma, if you like. It is up to you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 28th, 2017 at 4:41 AM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:
Vasana said:
We're all lazy...

Malcolm wrote:
You don't need to worry. Vimalamitra states:

One of average diligence sees the instruction of the guru, seeing the direct perception of vidyā. However, because they are distracted by worldly distractions, they never have time to practice. When they cast off this body of traces, through the blessings of seeing the door of profound dharmatā, after they find solace in the natural nirmanakāya buddhafields, they attain buddhahood. Thus, there is not a single one who has entered into this teaching who fails to attain buddhahood.  This it is said that for these ones, “the appearances of samsara are impossible.”

Ricky said:
What happens to those lazy practitioners who receive transmission but are never able to to see the direct perception of vidya? Will they continue to take rebirth in the 6 realms like everyone else?

Malcolm wrote:
Eventually, sooner rather than later, they will meet the teachings again and have another go at it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 28th, 2017 at 4:17 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Human beings are practical —— when they encounter a new technology they tend to adopt it enthusiastically, for better or for worse.

Grigoris said:
Indeed.  I think that is is imperative that we start to really assess what is was about Frist Peoples cultures (a form of technology) that allowed them to maintain a healthy and viable relationship with their environment, while we had managed to almost completely destroy ours, forcing oursleves into immigration in order to survive.

Malcolm wrote:
Overpopulation did not lead to European migration and colonialism, the desire to exploit capital resources did such as gold initially, then timber, etc.

As I said before, present population growth is primarily a function of energy inputs and outputs, i.e., physics.

Prior to learning how to unlock the energy potential of oil, human populations could only grow so fast. Oil completely changed that. Oil use, food availability and population track each other precisely.



http://energyskeptic.com/2013/oil-production-fueled-population-growth-and-food-production/

Grigoris said:
What Western model societies are doing to this planet has reached the point where we are going to drive a large portion of the living beings (including ourslves) into extinction and yet we fail to learn from those most capable of teaching us.

Malcolm wrote:
Humans beings have always radically reshaped the environments of wherever they have lived, for their own use, for the benefit of no one but themselves. The pattern of human-driven extinctions is quite old and world-wide. Human-driven environmental collapse is also not a specifically Western thing, it has also been happening for millenia around the world. After all, humans are generally destructive to their environment. It is not a Western thing specifically.

Grigoris said:
“When we excavate the remains of past civilizations, we very rarely find any evidence that they as a whole society made any attempts to change in the face of a drying climate, a warming atmosphere or other changes”, Ur says. “I view this inflexibility as the real reason for collapse.”

Malcolm wrote:
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/1010/climate-change-and-the-rise-and-fall-of-civilizations/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 28th, 2017 at 1:42 AM
Title: Re: Yetis are real, but are Himalayan brown bears
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
This non-bear creature is also called a 'mountain man' and does exist in the Himalayan regions.

Malcolm wrote:
These are mi rgod, literally wild men. My teacher, Kunzang Dechen Lingpa, found himself trapped in a cave by them for a couple of days. He saw an artists depiction of Homo floresiensis and identified that immediately as the creatures he encountered in the remote jungles of the southern Himalayas.

Ricky said:
How was he able to deal with them?

Malcolm wrote:
He just waited them out.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 28th, 2017 at 1:32 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
TaTa said:
Will norbu give direct transmission in this retreat?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 28th, 2017 at 12:08 AM
Title: Re: Yetis are real, but are Himalayan brown bears
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
This non-bear creature is also called a 'mountain man' and does exist in the Himalayan regions.

Malcolm wrote:
These are mi rgod, literally wild men. My teacher, Kunzang Dechen Lingpa, found himself trapped in a cave by them for a couple of days. He saw an artists depiction of Homo floresiensis and identified that immediately as the creatures he encountered in the remote jungles of the southern Himalayas.

But Yetis are definitely bears and only bears.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 27th, 2017 at 11:55 PM
Title: Re: You Are Already Enlightened
Content:
KeithA said:
I would be lying if I said I really understood the furniture/living room metaphor

Malcolm wrote:
It's a variation on the white and black clouds metaphor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 27th, 2017 at 11:17 PM
Title: Re: Yetis are real, but are Himalayan brown bears
Content:
Dan74 said:
I recall our resident Yeti expert, Malcolm, saying a very similar thing quite some time ago, no?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, Yeti is a Tibetan name for a kind of bear.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 27th, 2017 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:



florin said:
Is this a teaching on the seven mind trainings from the dzogchen nyingthig ?

Malcolm wrote:
Not sure, but thun mong means common or shared; thun min means uncommon or unshared, i.e., specific to Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 27th, 2017 at 11:07 PM
Title: Re: Pointing out instructions and commitments
Content:
conebeckham said:
Fourth abhisheka is one instance or method, yes.  It can occur in other contexts, including in pith instructions. There are many methods, but they are usually specific instances with intention on the teacher’s part, and receptivity on the student’s part.  Ngo Tro, DI, “Word” empowerment, Rigpai Tsel Wang, all can be instances...

Malcolm wrote:
The ripening empowerment is not sufficient; one also needs the liberation instructions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 27th, 2017 at 11:03 PM
Title: Re: Pointing out instructions and commitments
Content:



weitsicht said:
Not being correct you refer to the last sentence He is doing it even as he sleeps. ?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it is a silly statement.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 27th, 2017 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


Grigoris said:
It is a theory that basically says that all societies have to pass through certain stages of development in order to reach an existing pinnacle.  Western society is considered the pinnacle and the standard by which all other cultures are judged.  So, any society that, based on this standard of development, has not reached the level of Western society is considered primitive or underdeveloped.


Malcolm wrote:
I did not make this argument. I don't consider neolithic technology primitive. It does have its limitations, however. Typewriters are not primitive, but they too have their limitations in comparison to word processors.

Human beings are practical —— when they encounter a new technology they tend to adopt it enthusiastically, for better or for worse.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 27th, 2017 at 3:34 AM
Title: Re: How did the originally pure nature become defiled?
Content:
Vasana said:
I think Dzogchen cosmology speaks on this but I don't know what the regular mahayana take on it is.
In short, the appearances arising out of the mind's creative nature were not recognized as self-displays and so 'self and other' and the afflictions were set in motion driving the manifestation of the lokas. The purity was blinded /obscured by it's own creative potentiality just as we are 'blinded' by the mind's diverse creativity when dreaming when we don't recognize them as the mind's display. The purity never became impure but just obscured it's self from being known and experienced as pure and free of suffering.

Cognitive err0r

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is not how it is at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 27th, 2017 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Of course you are, hopelessly so.

Grigoris said:
No I am not and continuously calling me a romantic is a moral judgment in the same category as calling you a racist.  It is a Mexican standoff.  What will be the outside event that will tip the scales?  Cue western style music, composed by an Italian, in the background.

Malcolm wrote:
Sigh.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 27th, 2017 at 12:17 AM
Title: Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen
Content:
makewhisper said:
Is intentional action always mind (sems)...

Malcolm wrote:
Intentional action is always a product of the sems 'byung or caitta, called " cetana " or volition; a mental factor always which accompanies the mind ( citta, sems).

makewhisper said:
Thank you for your response Malcolm. Does the spontaneous compassion of the basis produce action in the same way that mind produces action? Is the difference simply that cetana-motivated action produces karma while the spontaneous expression of rigpa in behavior does not? It seems like cetana is almost like a "middle man" in the compassion > volition > action chain. Is rigpa more like compassion > action? I think I'm trying to wrap my head around how the continuity of one's character traits and behaviors is maintained following a direct encounter with one's own nature. Why don't those with direct knowledge of rigpa engage in precisely the same actions when dwelling in their own state? I've seen on this forum where you've posted that minds are individual yet possessing the same qualities. This makes sense to me. In the state of rigpa, are we all simply acting precisely the way Samantabhadra would act in the presence of someone without knowledge of their own state?

Malcolm wrote:
When one has direct knowledge of one's own state, and sees that it is the solution to the existential problem for suffering, one automatically feels compassion for those that do not have this knowledge. It is just like someone who has fire seeing how the lives of those who do not know how to make fire will be immeasurably improved if they learned how to make fire.

The compassion of the basis however, is something else entirely. It is related to the nirmanakāya. Samantabhadra does not have a mind, per se. The activity of the buddhas is beyond thought, karma, etc. It is like the action of a wishfulfilling gem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 27th, 2017 at 12:00 AM
Title: Re: Skillful means and Dzogchen
Content:
makewhisper said:
Is intentional action always mind (sems)...

Malcolm wrote:
Intentional action is always a product of the sems 'byung or caitta, called " cetana " or volition; a mental factor always which accompanies the mind ( citta, sems).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 11:52 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Unknown said:
You are a romantic, idealizing an indigenous culture...
No I am not.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course you are, hopelessly so. It's ok. At least I do not shower you with moral judgments about who you are as a person for holding this or that opinion. The same however, can not be said of you in return.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
I am done with discussing with you.  I am not discussing anything with you, I am merely pointing out that your statement is racist, albeit cloaked.  No matter how hard you try to write it off as my projection.

Malcolm wrote:
You are a romantic, idealizing an indigenous culture you can no more participate in than I can participate in the indigenous cultures in North America.

The difference between us that I do not idealize any human beings or culture at all, for any reason. With the sole exception of āryas, those who have actually realized the meaning of Buddhadharma, all human beings are driven by the three poisons, and whatever they do is colored by the three poisons.

Within that constraint, I regard liberal democracy as the best and most equitable possible form of government. You don't agree. That's ok.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 11:29 PM
Title: Re: private teaching
Content:


diamind said:
Blessings are necessary and if the Guru says you can practice without a lung that is a blessing of the lineage, albeit big or small.

Malcolm wrote:
One does not have a Vajrayāna guru sans empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


Grigoris said:
So:  insinuating that Aborigines are primitive and under developed...

Malcolm wrote:
No where did assert that Australian Aborigines were primitive or underdeveloped; I merely observed that their level of technology was at the neolithic stage.

Grigoris said:
It ain't shit, it's do-do.  Try this:  Go to a Native Amercian (my guess is it is easier for you to find a Native American than an Australian Aboriginal) and say to them:  "You are not primitive or underdeveloped, it's just that your technology was at a neolithic stage."  I recommend you wear a mouth guard when you do this because a broken nose is easy to deal with, but broken teeth cost a fortune.

Historical determinsm is a colonialist philosophy aimed at degrading the value of non-Western cultures/societies by claiming they are at an earlier stage of development than their Western counterparts.  It's an old ploy Malcolm and anybody that has been involved in rights movements for indigenous people for even the briefest period of time has learned to see through it.



Malcolm wrote:
You can project whatever you like into my statement, but just bear in mind they are your projections, and as such, have nothing to do with me at all. Also, I thought you were done with the thread?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 11:05 PM
Title: Re: Eternal != Perpetual
Content:


MiphamFan said:
But in Dzogchen for example, which talks about the "fourth time", it seems harder to distinguish from what is called "eternal".

Malcolm wrote:
The so-called fourth time is description of how dharmatā is same through out the three times, that's all. It is also the name of a yoga.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


Grigoris said:
So:  insinuating that Aborigines are primitive and under developed...

Malcolm wrote:
No where did assert that Australian Aborigines were primitive or underdeveloped; I merely observed that their level of technology was at the neolithic stage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 5:22 AM
Title: Re: What practices would Madhyamakin and Yogacarins actually have done?
Content:
ItsRaining said:
Most of the texts produced by early-mid Mahayana schools seem to be on philosophy and theory (or maybe I'm wrong since I'm not too well read) so what practices did they do?

Malcolm wrote:
They would have practiced the six perfections.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 4:03 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Not for food, but rather, for rare commodities like pepper, and so on.
And yet they came back with what are now European staples.

Malcolm wrote:
Potatoes were not introduced to Europe until the 1560s-70s.

Grigoris said:
No, not at all. The Colombian Exchange took after during a long period of population decline due to the Black Death and ensuing economic crisis in Western Europe.
The Black death ended in 1353, Columbus did not launch on his first voyage until 1492.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and vast portions of Europe remained unpopulated as a result, even in 1492.

Grigoris said:
What stopped Australian Aborigines from developing into a colonial power was their material conditions, not their "culture." Again, physics.
No.  Aborigines, especially in the south, south east and east coast of Australia had the material capacity, if they wished, of making exactly the same mistakes as Europeans.  Shiiiiit...  Europeans in Australia are currently making the same mistakes, utilising the material conditions of Australia.  Everything was there for the using.  Aborigines just didn't see it the same way Europeans did.

Malcolm wrote:
No, metal was introduced by Cook, and adopted immediately by Aborigines with vigor. They simply never advanced out of the Neolithic era, like those in the Americas.

BTW, the Chinese also invented the gun, not just gunpowder. What stopped Chinese colonialism was its abandonment of its fleet, scuttled completely by 1525.

Grigoris said:
Few people in the West realise how economically and technologically advanced China was by the 1400s. The Treasure Fleet was vast -- some vessels were up to 120 metres long. (Christopher Columbus's Santa Maria was only 19 metres.) A Chinese ship might have several decks inside it, up to nine masts, twelve sails, and contain luxurious staterooms and balconies, with a crew of up to 1,500, according to one description. On one journey, 317 of these ships set sail at once.

Under the command of the eunuch admiral Zheng He, the Chinese were routinely sailing to Africa and back decades before Columbus was even born. Yet they did not go on to conquer the world. Instead, the Chinese decided to destroy their boats and stop sailing West.

In the 1470s the government destroyed Zheng's records so that his expeditions could not be repeated. And by 1525 all the ships in the Treasure Fleet were gone.

Why?

Historians have a variety of explanations. The Yongle Emperor was distracted by a land war against the Mongols, a conflict in which the navy was irrelevant, for instance. Others argue that the vast cost of the Treasure Fleet's expeditions far outweighed the actual treasure they came back with.

But Angus Deaton, the Nobel Prize-winning Princeton economist, prefers a different theory. In his book "The Great Escape: Health, Wealth, and the Origins of Inequality," he argues that the Chinese burned their boats (almost literally) in an attempt to control foreign trade.

The Treasure Fleet was abandoned at the urging of the political elite inside the Emperor's civil service who had become alarmed at the rise of a newly rich merchant class. "The emperors of China, worried about threats to their power from merchants, banned oceangoing voyages in 1430, so that Admiral Zheng He's explorations were an end, not a beginning," Deaton writes.

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/500-years-ago-china-destroyed-its-world-dominating-navy-because-its-political-elite-was-afraid-of-a7612276.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 3:14 AM
Title: Re: The siddhi of winning wars
Content:
Grigoris said:
Well, obviously nobody explained the literalness of the technique to the invading Chinese armies.

Malcolm wrote:
Nevertheless, Tibetans threw a lot of zors at the Chinese, but bullets apparently are more effective than zors at killing enemies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 3:10 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


Grigoris said:
After committing a physical genocide the colonists then embarked on a cultural genocide too.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course, but that is completely besides the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 3:10 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
European populations managed their environment quite well once they hit their carrying capacity until the Colombian exchange. The primary energy inputs that caused an explosion of population in Europe, as well as China, were two things, potatoes for the former, yams for the latter. Again, basic physics, not culture. The big thing was coal and oil. Again, physics, not culture.

Unknown said:
Again this is complete and utter hogwash: there would have been no need to expand European resource bases if needs were being met.



Malcolm wrote:
The Spanish adventure to the New World was based on trying to find shorter trade routes for the spice trade, not trees.

Unknown said:
Before the Colombian exchange Europe had already begun colonial forays into other parts of the world. But the key question is "why was there a need to expand resource bases"?

Malcolm wrote:
Not for food, but rather, for rare commodities like pepper, and so on.

Unknown said:
One of the main factors was overpopulation.



Malcolm wrote:
No, not at all. The Colombian Exchange took after during a long period of population decline due to the Black Death and ensuing economic crisis in Western Europe.

"It obviously came down to a question of power, indeed of force, and in fact there was intense Europe-wide lord/peasant conflict throughout the later fourteenth, fifteenth and early sixteenth centuries, almost everywhere over the same general issues: first, of course, serfdom; second, whether lords or peasants were to gain ultimate control over landed property, in particular the vast areas left vacant after the demographic collapse."

. The Brenner Debate: Agrarian Class Structure and Economic Development in Pre-industrial Europe (Past and Present Publications) (Page 35). Cambridge University Press. Kindle Edition.

Unknown said:
So what "stopped" them? Their culture stops them. A culture that is not based on the accumulation of physical possessions. A culture that emphasises other qualities.



Malcolm wrote:
What stopped Australian Aborigines from developing into a colonial power was their material conditions, not their "culture." Again, physics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 2:19 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Neither example can be laid at the feet of liberal democracy, which only began in 1776, with the American Revolution.
Liberal Democracy is a part of European culture, is it not?  You wrote off the entirety of Australian Aboriginal culture on the basis of 0.09 deaths per year over 50,000 years, so you are just going t have to do me the favor and allow me (based on modern evidence) of the extremely bloodthirsty nature of European culture (and here I include politics and economy).

Brunelleschi said:
Singling out European culture as bloodthirsty is just trolling.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it assumes that somehow people of Indo-Eurpopean language groups are more afflicted than others...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 1:57 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This is a function of energy inputs and outputs into a biological system rather than any conscious choice: physics in other words, not culture.

Grigoris said:
Complete and utter hogwash.  So what happened to European societies? Did they break the laws of physics?  You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point.

Malcolm wrote:
European populations managed their environment quite well once they hit their carrying capacity until the Colombian exchange.  The primary energy inputs that caused an explosion of population in Europe, as well as China, were two things, potatoes for the former, yams for the latter. Again, basic physics, not culture. The big thing was coal and oil. Again, physics, not culture.

Grigoris said:
It's got nothing to do with essentialism and everything to do with the dominant qualities emphasized by a particular culture.

Malcolm wrote:
That is precisely what essentialism is.

Grigoris said:
Ad if you are going to split up European cultures you are going to have to do the same for Australian Aboriginal cultures.  Australia is a continent and there were over 500 distinct Aboriginal cultural groups just within the state of Victoria alone.

Malcolm wrote:
I did not make any global claims for aborigines in Australia, you did.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 12:54 AM
Title: Re: Barchey Lamsel
Content:
Grigoris said:
Does anybody know if the Barchey Lamsel  prayer, from the Barche Kunsel terma cycle of Chogyur Lingpa and Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo, has a specific empowerment linked to it?

Malcolm wrote:
Not specifically, but each of the manifestations of Padmasambhava mentioned in the prayer has a specific empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 12:52 AM
Title: Re: The siddhi of winning wars
Content:
WeiHan said:
I thought Tantras cannot be read literally and that is why we need pith instruction from a Guru in order to understand and know how to practice them correctly? The mantra of Hevajra itself, contains words like "Slay slay......bind, bind...the enemies" but I don't think they should be understood literally?

Malcolm wrote:
Mantras for destroying armies, pretty much literal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 26th, 2017 at 12:46 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sure they did, Aborigines used currency, had elaborate trade networks and so on.

Grigoris said:
Where are you getting this information from, because the Australian Aboriginal people we supported in their struggle for recognition (mainly the Koorie of Victoria State) told us a very different truth to the one you are claiming.

Malcolm wrote:
There are all kinds of resources you can consult to find out what kind of elaborate trade networks the Aborigines had, pre-contact.


Grigoris said:
They forced many species into extinction.
Yes, and learning from their mistakes they set up buffer zones between tribes where each tribe could not hunt their totem thus ensuring that the surviving species were not over hunted into extinction.  The other evidence for the ecological nature of their culture was their lack of on material acquisition and their ability to keep their populations at levels that allowed them to not become an unbearable burden on the environment.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a function of energy inputs and outputs into a biological system rather than any conscious choice: physics in other words, not culture.

Grigoris said:
Neither example can be laid at the feet of liberal democracy, which only began in 1776, with the American Revolution.
Liberal Democracy is a part of European culture, is it not?  You wrote off the entirety of Australian Aboriginal culture on the basis of 0.09 deaths per year over 50,000 years, so you are just going t have to do me the favor and allow me (based on modern evidence) of the extremely bloodthirsty nature of European culture (and here I include politics and economy).

Malcolm wrote:
European cultures (which ones? All, some?) are no more nor less bloodthirsty than any other human culture —— to argue they are is to make essentialist arguments (as well as to ignore history), just as arguing for the (questionable) nobility of indigenous people is another kind of essentialism; both equally biased.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 11:17 PM
Title: Re: The siddhi of winning wars
Content:
Grigoris said:
The Noble Eightfold Path and the Five Precepts talk about not killing.

Pāṇātipātā veramaṇī sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi.
如 诸 佛 尽 寿 不 杀 生, 我 某 甲 亦 尽 寿 不 杀 生
I undertake the training rule to abstain from killing.

Not all violence leads to death.  So there is a vast grey area there

Malcolm wrote:
Ahimsa is a commitment of taking refuge in the Dharma.

mechashivaz said:
So what of the act of striking with a stick the monastic students in the Zen tradition? As well as a host of stories of masters using apparently violent means fueled by bodhichitta to a greater good in the end. Can apparent violence ever be upaya?

Malcolm wrote:
The practice of using a flat stick to strike the shoulders of a person meditating is not to harm them, but rather, to stimulate their alertness and remedy their posture. Thus, it is not harmful.

A bodhisattva's ahimsa can and will include killing harmful sentient beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 11:14 PM
Title: Re: The siddhi of winning wars
Content:
Varis said:
Something that always struck me as odd when I was reading about Buddhist Tantra in the past was that some deity practices claim to confer the ability to conquer everyone in battle, invincibility, etc.

Grigoris said:
Source please.  Which deities?  Were they yidam or worldly deities?

Malcolm wrote:
There is a section in the Hevajra Tantra with mantras used for defeating armies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: Pointing out instructions and commitments
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Agreed, this isn't correct.

diamind said:
So categorically the guru must be present when you recognise the TNM?

heart said:
TNM? Tokyo Natural Museum?

There seem to be 2 schools, one say yes and the other say that you first must have received the pointing-out but that you might then recognise it later on your own.

/magnus


Malcolm wrote:
There is a third school, (ChNN): when receiving direct introduction, in the beginning it may be too subtle for the student to "catch;" however, they did have the experience. It is then necessary is for them not to remain in doubt through use of various methods so they can continue in that state.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 10:47 PM
Title: Re: Drogön Chögyal Phagpaand and the Yuan Dynasty Daoist Debate
Content:


liuzg150181 said:
May you elaborarte further as to why Taoism is similar or even the same as Samkya view?

Malcolm wrote:
There was something featureless yet complete, born before heaven and earth; Silent—amorphous—it stood alone and unchanging. We may regard it as the mother of heaven and earth. Not knowing its name, I style it the "Way."[2]

The Way gave birth to unity, Unity gave birth to duality, Duality gave birth to trinity, Trinity gave birth to the myriad creatures. The myriad creatures bear yin on their back and embrace yang in their bosoms. They neutralize these vapors and thereby achieve harmony.[3]

This is no different than prakriti. Notably, in Samkhya it is the three gunas that are responsible for the evolution of the 24 tattvas.

ItsRaining said:
I thought Samkhya was dualist, they have another substance called purusha?

Malcolm wrote:
Purusha is completely inactive. The issue is the principal of effects existing already in their cause, called satkaryavāda. This is how Samkhya and Daoism are similar.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 10:45 PM
Title: Re: Pointing out instructions and commitments
Content:


Spelare said:
I would not rule out spontaneous awakening; it could indeed happen at any moment, without warning.

Malcolm wrote:
This is categorically rejected in Dzogchen tantras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: Pointing out instructions and commitments
Content:


diamind said:
So categorically the guru must be present when you recognise the TNM?

Malcolm wrote:
No one said this.


diamind said:
Theres many cases of the Buddha introducing the TNM just by being in his presence.  It's spontaneous.

Malcolm wrote:
For example?


It seems you have this idea of gurus that they are like radioactive isotopes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 10:40 PM
Title: Re: Non-conceptual thoughts ... ?
Content:
weitsicht said:
This whole realization thing is not black-and white, it's not binary.

Malcolm wrote:
That depends on what you mean by realization. What I mean by realization is experience + understanding = realization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 10:35 PM
Title: Re: "Summarizing" Buddhadharma
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
I don't actually claim the ability or qualification to "summarize" Buddhadharma, apologies for my title, but if I may ask, is the below, according to how you understand the dharma, correct?

The profoundly, truly, and absolutely clear mind encounters any thing/dharma whatsoever, and awakening is understood/has happened.

Malcolm wrote:
Avoid nonvirtue, 
adopt virtue,
know one's mind. 
This is the teaching of the Buddhas.

This, at base, is how one summarizes the Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 10:21 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I suggest you study warfare amongst Aborigines...

Grigoris said:
I have....as well as their pre-contact treatment of women.
I have studied that too.

No society is perfect, all humans are afflicted, I give the example of Australian Aboriginal society as one that did not rely on profit from exchange,

Malcolm wrote:
Sure they did, Aborigines used currency, had elaborate trade networks and so on.

Grigoris said:
was extraordinarily ecological,

Malcolm wrote:
They forced many species into extinction.

Grigoris said:
and did not rely on violence to the same degree as other organised societies.

Malcolm wrote:
Disagree.

Grigoris said:
Dr. Gideon Polya, a scientist, artist, writer and pro-peace advocate, wrote that roughly 123 years after the arrival of the British, the “Indigenous Aboriginal population dropped from about 1 million to 0.1 million in the first century after invasion in 1788.” By 1911, 90 percent of the population had been wiped out.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, no doubt, disease being the major factor, just as in post-Colombian Americas.

Grigoris said:
And if this is considered a serious basis to reject Australian Aboriginal culture then what should we make of European culture if we consider the 40-60,000 people (80% of which were women) killed during the 16 to 18th Century Witch Trials?  What should we make of the Holocaust?

Malcolm wrote:
Neither example can be laid at the feet of liberal democracy, which only began in 1776, with the American Revolution.

You'd be better off using the example of US Govt. clearances of native people off their traditional lands during the 19th century; but factually, pre-Colombian native people in the Americas have a long history of intense and brutal warfare with each other, as well as a long history of resource overuse and exploitation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 8:57 AM
Title: Re: Pointing out instructions and commitments
Content:


CedarTree said:
But maybe I am off on what is experienced and pointed out in pointing out instruction and could be corrected?

Malcolm wrote:
You cannot explain the taste of an apple to a person who has never tasted fruit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 8:47 AM
Title: Re: Nāgārjuna's Middle Way (Siderits/Katsura)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it is a perfectly decent translation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 8:44 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Right, so you are an advocate of redistribution. That requires a hierarchy and force, something to which you are also opposed.

Grigoris said:
It does not require hierarchy, but it may require force.

Malcolm wrote:
The use of force always requires hierarchy and authority, even mob violence.


Grigoris said:
Yes, it is in our afflictive nature to be greedy, violent and nasty prats.  When our society is predicted on those ideals it makes it that much easier.  But it is not necessary.  I recommend you read up on Australian Aboriginal societies to get a picture as to what your world can look like.

Malcolm wrote:
I suggest you study warfare amongst Aborigines, as well as their pre-contact treatment of women. Thanks, but I don't want that world nor the sad romanticism that imagines things were "better" there, then.

Grigoris said:
Paleopathologist Stephen Webb in 1995 published his analysis of 4500 individuals’ bones from mainland Australia going back 50,000 years. (Priceless bone collections at the time were being officially handed over to Aboriginal communities for re-burial, which stopped follow-up studies).[15] Webb found highly disproportionate rates of injuries and fractures to women’s skulls, with the injuries suggesting deliberate attack and often attacks from behind, perhaps in domestic squabbles. In the tropics, for example, female head-injury frequency was about 20-33%, versus 6.5-26% for males.

Malcolm wrote:
http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/bennelong-papers/2013/05/the-long-bloody-history-of-aboriginal-violence/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 6:03 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No, actually, we cannot changed ripened karma at all, such as where we were born, etc. We can prevent unripened karma from ripening, but that is about it. And since we are continually creating new karma all the time, well...for most sentient beings it amounts to bailing water out of a boat that has already sunk.

Grigoris said:
You are just being intentionally obtuse.  I may be born into certain circumstances, but I can act in a manner that will take me out of the circumstances, or at least give me a better start in the next lifetime.  There is nothing radical about that idea.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, but inequality is still a result of karma. The Buddha taught this very clearly.


Grigoris said:
So you claim, but I do not accept that this is factual.
You do not WANT to accept it as factual.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a  question of want or not want, it is a question of evidence.


Grigoris said:
Thus, don't t hold your breath waiting for some socialist or anarchist messiah to come along an usher in a new age of global sharing and caring —— it is not going to happen.
I am not an authoritarian, so I am not waiting on somebody to do something.  I just di the best I can.  I learned a long time ago that I (by myself) cannot change the world, but if I can help one or two people that is much better than sitting idly by twiddling my thumbs waiting for Armageddon (and making excuses for it's impending arrival).

Malcolm wrote:
Glad you are doing your best to improve the world. So am I.


Grigoris said:
The main problem with internal market economy is that it is not properly regulated in terms of environmental costs, pollution, etc.
No, the main problem is wealth inequity.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, so you are an advocate of redistribution. That requires a hierarchy and force, something to which you are also opposed. However, even if you have redistributed all the world's wealth equally, inequity will just pop right back up again with a few days. It is in the afflictive nature of human beings to seek to make profits, and of sentient beings in general, to try to accumulate wealth (hence the hoarding behavior of rodents, crows, and so on). The only way out of this is out -- i.e., becoming a total renunciate, like the Buddha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: Pointing out instructions and commitments
Content:
CedarTree said:
I would be interested to know on here who has received pointing out and actually feels and has been confirmed to have encountered the primordial mind and what that was like....

Malcolm wrote:
What do you mean by "primordial mind."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 5:49 AM
Title: Re: Pointing out instructions and commitments
Content:


Punya said:
Good question, I don't really know. I suppose I was thinking that it was establishing a connection that had greater samaya than an empowerment.

Malcolm wrote:
No, there is no samaya greater than empowerment. Direct introduction is an empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 4:47 AM
Title: Re: Pointing out instructions and commitments
Content:
diamind said:
I don't know why people actually think there is this special moment when the guru introduces the nature of mind like he turns it on and off only for special empowerments.  He is doing it even as he sleeps.

heart said:
This isn't correct, sorry man.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Agreed, this isn't correct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 4:42 AM
Title: Re: private teaching
Content:


diamind said:
Anyway, I think its about time for people on this forum and everywhere else on the planet to stop saying categorically "you cant practice things without lungs and empowerment"  because the truth is you can!



Malcolm wrote:
Requirements for practicing Secret Mantra start around 1:50...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 4:25 AM
Title: Re: Pointing out instructions and commitments
Content:
Punya said:
Several current conversations on DW have led me to wondering: if you receive pointing out instructions from a particular teacher aren't you making, at least,  a lifetime commitment to them? This is my understanding, but some people seem to talk about it in a more casual way.

Malcolm wrote:
Define what you understand by "commitment."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 2:04 AM
Title: Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant
Content:



WeiHan said:
I did not criticise them for accepting Mt Meru or Giant Buddhas if you read carefully but I am not comfortable with the sweeping attitude towards science and the kind of advise given which can potentially ruin some naive people life. These people then become quite problematic which still stay in the circle and we are the one having to face them and manage them.

Malcolm wrote:
People, ultimately, are responsible for themselves and what they choose to believe. It is not my job, nor yours, to condition other people.

WeiHan said:
yes. then the circle, with more problematic people, will become less welcoming and more difficult to grow. Nobody works, then it closes down.

Malcolm wrote:
That's called life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 1:56 AM
Title: Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant
Content:



WeiHan said:
I did not criticise them for accepting Mt Meru or Giant Buddhas if you read carefully but I am not comfortable with the sweeping attitude towards science and the kind of advise given which can potentially ruin some naive people life. These people then become quite problematic which still stay in the circle and we are the one having to face them and manage them.

Malcolm wrote:
People, ultimately, are responsible for themselves and what they choose to believe. It is not my job, nor yours, to condition other people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 12:22 AM
Title: Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant
Content:
Simon E. said:
This thread has just become one person badmouthing a teacher. With or without good reason.

It's not edifying.

Malcolm wrote:
Agreed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 12:21 AM
Title: Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant
Content:


WeiHan said:
It got to do with what irrational thinking can lead to in people real life.


Malcolm wrote:
Irrational thinking is not confined to religion. An example of irrational thinking is believing that engaging in haranguing a respected teacher of Buddhism on a Buddhism internet forum is going to result in anything other than criticism.

For example, there are famous teachers who have advanced cosmological views I consider anachronistic, but one's level of realization does not conform to whether one accepts Meru or not -- it conforms solely to how well one has eradicated the three poisons in one's continuum through the realization of emptiness and whether one is a truly compassionate person as a result. Therefore, I would not dream of criticizing them for accepting Mt.Meru or Giant Buddhas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 12:15 AM
Title: Re: Non-conceptual thoughts ... ?
Content:
weitsicht said:
Maybe again the dzogchen view kicks in here.
No taste is to be rejected.
Ultimately there is no right or wrong.
Exceptionally everything is the effulgence of the dharmakaya

Malcolm wrote:
Ok, eat shit.
Ok, go kill someone and then bring them back to life.
Ok, pass through mountains and cliffs unimpeded.

When you do these three things, I will believe you have realized the view you advocate. If not, this is just an intellectual view, and intellectual views are from the beginning not Dzogchen view.

weitsicht said:
I consider stopping my activities in this forum.
Wishing you well, Malcolm.


Malcolm wrote:
Don't leave on my account. I am just one person, expressing an opinion. Meawhile, a wise master once said:

Until one has realized the view, do not express the view in words.

BTW, this would be a very good opportunity for you to resort to one taste, no right or wrong, and effulgence of dharmakāya. If you are going to be upset because of a few words I say, it really means that your view is merely intellectual posturing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 25th, 2017 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
And indeed you are forgetting the words of the Buddha who pointed out that all inequalities we see in samsara are a result of karma. We cannot change ripened karma. It just isn't possible.

Grigoris said:
We can change our karma so that the effects of past karma are reduced or nullified.  That is what the Buddha taught, that is the idea that put him at odds with Hinduism.

Malcolm wrote:
No, actually, we cannot changed ripened karma at all, such as where we were born, etc. We can prevent unripened karma from ripening, but that is about it. And since we are continually creating new karma all the time, well...for most sentient beings it amounts to bailing water out of a boat that has already sunk.


Grigoris said:
We cannot fix samsara, but we can try to improve what we can.
Indeed.  But "trying to improve" is not tantamount to choosing between two equally flawed options.  Luckily humans possess imagination and the capacity for innovation.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't think the two options are equally flawed, I think one is far more flawed than the other.


Grigoris said:
I have no confidence at all in utopianism of any kind. My observation is that liberal democracies and market economies in general make people's lives better and not worse. But it is all a work in progress and perfection will never be achieved.
You still fail to understand that your life being better is predicated on other's lives being worse.

Malcolm wrote:
So you claim, but I do not accept that this is factual.


Grigoris said:
Yes, but ignorant of karma and its ripening, they will simply create more negative karma for themselves by fighting the Israelis and together they and the Israelis will both wind up in hell.
Yes well, it is easy to accept things, when things are really good.  So instead of trying to share what you have, it is easier to say to those less fortunate than you:  It's your karma, suck it up.

Malcolm wrote:
Who says I am against the USA sharing what it has? The US pays out far more money in aid than any other country in the world. I personally would prefer it if most of our military budget (1 trillion per year) went to improving conditions in the developing nations and so on. I would prefer it if that is what western nations in general chose to do with their military budgets. Someday, that could happen, right now, there is no international will for it. But our leaders, all of them, as well all sentient beings, including you and I, are driven by the three poisons. Thus, don't t hold your breath waiting for some socialist or anarchist messiah to come along an usher in a new age of global sharing and caring —— it is not going to happen.

In the meantime, I think that market solutions have brought more wealth and improved standards of living to more people around the world than ever before, and I think the economic facts of the world economy bear this out. Why do you think there is a populist backlash in the US where an aging white minority has convinced themselves that the global market, responsible for their standard of living, is denying them jobs because non-white people around the world are becoming more and more wealthy every year?

The main problem with internal market economy is that it is not properly regulated in terms of environmental costs, pollution, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 9:38 PM
Title: Re: Non-conceptual thoughts ... ?
Content:
weitsicht said:
Maybe again the dzogchen view kicks in here.
No taste is to be rejected.
Ultimately there is no right or wrong.
Exceptionally everything is the effulgence of the dharmakaya

Malcolm wrote:
Ok, eat shit.
Ok, go kill someone and then bring them back to life.
Ok, pass through mountains and cliffs unimpeded.

When you do these three things, I will believe you have realized the view you advocate. If not, this is just an intellectual view, and intellectual views are from the beginning not Dzogchen view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: The siddhi of winning wars
Content:
Grigoris said:
Who said that Buddhism is non-violent?

Anders said:
Is this is a joke? Ahimsa is a foundational tenet of Buddhism.

Grigoris said:
The Noble Eightfold Path and the Five Precepts talk about not killing.

Pāṇātipātā veramaṇī sikkhāpadaṃ samādiyāmi.
如 诸 佛 尽 寿 不 杀 生, 我 某 甲 亦 尽 寿 不 杀 生
I undertake the training rule to abstain from killing.

Not all violence leads to death.  So there is a vast grey area there

Malcolm wrote:
Ahimsa is a commitment of taking refuge in the Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 10:30 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:



illarraza said:
There are various teaching methods employed by the Buddha in the Lotus Sutra: simile; metaphor; parable [of which there are seven]; skillful or expedient means; logic; historical precedent; narration [current events and prior birth stories]; questions and answers; and most importantly, a direct exposition of his Enlightenment. When studying the Lotus Sutra one can reflect, "here the Buddha is speaking of his experience in a previous existence and here the Buddha is answering the question of Sariputra", etc. Are there worlds where the Buddha actually experienced parthenogenesis as the physiological method of reproducing the species or is it a metaphor or is it something else? Is the Treasure Tower a metaphor only? Bodhisattvas 500 feet tall on other worlds? Flying cars? Some things are fruitless to question or contemplate and the Buddha was silent.

Malcolm wrote:
Which raise all kinds of hermeneutical issues, not least of which is, did the Indian or Indians who wrote this text down take it literally at all? Indeed, how literally were Mahāyāna sūtras taken by Indians?

illarraza said:
Vasubandhu demonstrated (believed) that even such phenomena as galaxies were produced by the karmic tendencies of a sole individual (Abhidharmakośa).

Malcolm wrote:
No he did not. That is a misreading of the first verse of the Karma chapter, one directly contradicted in other parts of the Kosha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 10:28 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Hence Natural Capitalism + biocentricity.

MiphamFan said:
Marx might have recommended revolutions in 1850. By 1871, he advised the Paris Commune not to do it and try to build a Republic together with everyone else.

Revolutions ultimately are not the main point of communism, https://therealmovement.wordpress.com/2014/05/14/proletarian-revolution-versus-the-real-movement-of-society-a-reply-to-siddiq/. Unfortunately, most people just care about the politics and ignore the economics -- present day Marxists even take neoliberal theories of value rather than the labour theory of value. They don't realise that is the entire basis of Marxism -- production of goods based on profit results in more and more machinery, technology (constant capital), which reduces the need for human labour (variable capital) until labour is minimal/zero.

Now, whether this is true or not is a different matter, but really, it is not very different from what J S Mill said, and the dreams of a lot of techno-utopians. Techno-utopians are already kind of implementing "lite" communism with stuff like the sharing economy, open source software etc. With open source software, one programmer can write a piece of code that thousands after him can build on and use for free, that's pretty much constant capital.

I don't think utilitarian/marginal economics has much to counter this. They merely conflate value and price. I find the liberal idea that profits are the "wages of abstinence" milquetoast and retarded. The wages of abstinence are the wages of the ascetic, not of the capitalist. There certainly is a risk component to it, but then there are plenty of risk-taking entrepreneurs who end up with nothing.

I think the biggest criticism of communism (and really, most other forms of political economy which emerged in the industrial age) is not considering the inputs of nature, and only looking at mankind's internal relations.

For example, w.r.t to the labour theory of value, Ricardo discovered this major oversight near the end of his life. He carried out a correspondence with Malthus in which Malthus challenged him on stuff like whether 50 oak trees costing 20 GBP each contained as much labour as a 1000 GBP block of stone. He tried to address some of the issues in the third edition of his Principles, but couldn't fully resolve them. He went on a different thread, talking about the "labour profile" of production, which I think his later successors (including the Ricardian Socialists, which Marx certainly learned from, and J S Mill) took up, but I think (my own opinion) all of them pretty much ignored nature's inputs in value.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 5:35 AM
Title: Re: Tonglen from a Dzogchen Pov
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
So basically, if one is pretty familiar already with Lojong/Tonglen, then you just apply the instructions with Dzogchen view/contemplation...it seems.

Malcolm wrote:
Or, alternately, Tonglen already is grounded in Dzogchen view; certainly Pabhongkha thought that the passage I cited was unduly influenced by Nyingma teachings, and so he changed the wording...remember, all early Kadampas were basically from Nyingma families.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 5:32 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:



Queequeg said:
Fair distinction. I included the quote to explain what I meant.


Malcolm wrote:
And since you do not believe it to be literally true, Minobu should be hassling you?

illarraza said:
There are various teaching methods employed by the Buddha in the Lotus Sutra: simile; metaphor; parable [of which there are seven]; skillful or expedient means; logic; historical precedent; narration [current events and prior birth stories]; questions and answers; and most importantly, a direct exposition of his Enlightenment. When studying the Lotus Sutra one can reflect, "here the Buddha is speaking of his experience in a previous existence and here the Buddha is answering the question of Sariputra", etc. Are there worlds where the Buddha actually experienced parthenogenesis as the physiological method of reproducing the species or is it a metaphor or is it something else? Is the Treasure Tower a metaphor only? Bodhisattvas 500 feet tall on other worlds? Flying cars? Some things are fruitless to question or contemplate and the Buddha was silent.

Malcolm wrote:
Which raise all kinds of hermeneutical issues, not least of which is, did the Indian or Indians who wrote this text down take it literally at all? Indeed, how literally were Mahāyāna sūtras taken by Indians?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 5:28 AM
Title: Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I don't see how any of this is relevant to whether Buddhas was a giant or not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 5:26 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Of course it can, we just need to work on getting enlightened.

Malcolm wrote:
Unfortunately, a precious human rebirth requires the store of merit, and very few human beings possess that store; and increasingly, as we move into the Kali Yuga, fewer and fewer humans will have a precious human birth.

From a realistic Buddhist point of view, any socialist utopian vision is basically a fantasy, including the Kingdom of Shambhala, etc., and nothing is more hierarchical than a kingdom. Even Dzogchen Community, which is supposed to be nonhierarchical is anything but.

Grigoris said:
On the basis of that view we shoul;d just let people die of poverty, not worry about universal health care or education, not bother with trying to slow or halt global warming, etc...  We should just dig a hole and [place our miserable existence in it waiting to die an inevitably slow and horrible death.  Sounds like Hindu fatalism to me.

Malcolm wrote:
No, you are painting things in unnecessary extremes (as usual).

We do not have a universal world government, so millions in Africa are still going to die of starvation while war lords get rich; people will die of poverty around the world; the United States is still going to foolishly refuse to honor its obligation to the Paris Accord, toss millions off of health care, reverse decades of environmental regulations, and so on. Then, the Democrats will once again be in power, and attempt to repair the damage done by the Trump administration. And people will still engage in the afflictive politics of resentment which leads only to radicalism and violence.

But I don't see how having a violent revolution is going to make anything better. And indeed you are forgetting the words of the Buddha who pointed out that all inequalities we see in samsara are a result of karma. We cannot change ripened karma. It just isn't possible.

We cannot fix samsara, but we can try to improve what we can. I have no confidence at all in utopianism of any kind. My observation is that liberal democracies and market economies in general make people's lives better and not worse. But it is all a work in progress and perfection will never be achieved.

Grigoris said:
But like I said earlier:  that is a sweet scenario for a white middle class dude living in the wealthiest and most powerful country in the West (since they will not have to live it), but if you ask a 16 year old Palestinian rights activists, they may have a different view.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but ignorant of karma and its ripening, they will simply create more negative karma for themselves by fighting the Israelis and together they and the Israelis will both wind up in hell.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 5:13 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Dan74 said:
Thanks, Malcolm, I'm familiar with the book and the widespread endorsement of the message. I think it's quite honest in what it does, but what it does, doesn't go far enough it seems to me.

Malcolm wrote:
Any further and we start talking about command economies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 4:42 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The evidence is desire, hatred, and ignorance. That is why your utopian scheme cannot work.

Grigoris said:
Of course it can, we just need to work on getting enlightened.

Malcolm wrote:
Unfortunately, a precious human rebirth requires the store of merit, and very few human beings possess that store; and increasingly, as we move into the Kali Yuga, fewer and fewer humans will have a precious human birth.

From a realistic Buddhist point of view, any socialist utopian vision is basically a fantasy, including the Kingdom of Shambhala, etc., and nothing is more hierarchical than a kingdom. Even Dzogchen Community, which is supposed to be nonhierarchical is anything but.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 4:28 AM
Title: Re: Contradicting sutras
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
This, though, is really close to the technical definition of "heresy" in Christianity. A heretic is someone who knows the true faith, departs from it, and encourages others to join him. For instance, the Catholic Church considers Luther a heretic. Modern day Lutherans, though, are not considered heretics, because they were born into that system. They never apostatized to a deranged doctrine and encouraged others to do so with them, because they were born to it.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, the point is that only a fully ordained bhiḳsu can do this, no one else. In Christianity, it is as simple as a confirmed lay person rejecting the Catholic Church and becoming a Buddhist, for example.

Coëmgenu said:
Well, because specifically Roman Christianity is a top-down system, one has an account of various "official" definitions for terms like "heretic". A Catholic who becomes a Buddhist can only be officially declared a "heretic" by the Catholic Church if they can be fully proven to have had a complete and perfect understanding of the Catholic faith. Terms like "complete" and "perfect", needless to be said, are endlessly problematic, and as such, almost all apostates from Catholicism are not declared heretics, nor would they be if they were popular enough to warrant attention from the Holy See.

Malcolm wrote:
They will be denied communion, which is effectively declaring them heretics. Hell, Church used to deny communion to people who married outside the Church.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 4:24 AM
Title: Re: Tonglen from a Dzogchen Pov
Content:



TaTa said:
He metions this in his documentary "for the benefit of beings"


Malcolm wrote:
I would want to see a textual source.

Miroku said:
here
https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=16164

Malcolm wrote:
This is not at all different than old Kadampa tonglen system.

Consider all phenomena to be like a dream.
Investigate the natural state of non-arisen vidyā.
The antidote too is liberated in its own state.
The essence of the path is resting in the nature of the all-basis. 

2.1.3:
Be an illusionist between sessions. 

2.2: There are two in meditating relative bodhicitta, equipoise and post-equipoise.

2.2.1:
Train in alternating between giving and receiving,
Those two should be mounted on the breath.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 4:09 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sharing is a form of reciprocity, and reciprocity is a form of trade.

Grigoris said:
No it is not.  One can give unconditionally, not expecting anything in return.

Malcolm wrote:
One might, but in reality, people do not work that way. Why? Desire, hatred, and ignorance.

Grigoris said:
Redistribution requires hierarchy. See Polanyi.
No it doesn't.  It requires organisation.  Organisation does not require hierachy.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course it does.


Grigoris said:
But now you are speculating again. There is no evidence that what I am suggesting cannot work.

Malcolm wrote:
The evidence is desire, hatred, and ignorance. That is why your utopian scheme cannot work.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 4:04 AM
Title: Re: Drogön Chögyal Phagpaand and the Yuan Dynasty Daoist Debate
Content:



ItsRaining said:
Thanks! Though I wish he wrote more on what he though about Daoism. Interesting that Phagpa wrote that Daoism is like Samkya which seems like an odd observation.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is perfect and accurate.

liuzg150181 said:
May you elaborarte further as to why Taoism is similar or even the same as Samkya view?

Malcolm wrote:
There was something featureless yet complete, born before heaven and earth; Silent—amorphous—it stood alone and unchanging. We may regard it as the mother of heaven and earth. Not knowing its name, I style it the "Way."[2]

The Way gave birth to unity, Unity gave birth to duality, Duality gave birth to trinity, Trinity gave birth to the myriad creatures. The myriad creatures bear yin on their back and embrace yang in their bosoms. They neutralize these vapors and thereby achieve harmony.[3]

This is no different than prakriti. Notably, in Samkhya it is the three gunas that are responsible for the evolution of the 24 tattvas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 4:00 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
People have also shared with each other (and continue to do so) without trading or exchange since humans were humans.

Malcolm wrote:
Sharing is a form of reciprocity, and reciprocity is a form of trade. Redistribution requires hierarchy. See Polanyi.

Apart from a complete and total social collapse on a global scale, and a similar collapse of population levels, this kind of economic arrangement is utopian fantasizing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 3:34 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
Engels made Marx better. The German Ideology is barely readable IMO.

Malcolm wrote:
Nevertheless, they both were bloody-minded, upper-middle class, living room revolutionaries who never were in any danger from the outcomes of their own irresponsible views.

Coëmgenu said:
I think of Marx as more of a Crypto-Christian would-be eschatologist for the human race. Thinking up a fanciful end-goal to replace the Christian eschaton he claims to have abandoned, being a "non-religious person". Perhaps I am alone in thinking this, though.


Malcolm wrote:
No, you are not alone in thinking this, his eschatology is fully within the Abrahamic tradition in general.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 3:24 AM
Title: Re: Contradicting sutras
Content:



Admin_PC said:
I don't think this is comparable to blasphemy in Christianity...

Malcolm wrote:
There is no real heresy in Buddhadharma, apart from Sanghabheda, splitting the Sangha — declaring one's own system to be better than that of Śākyamuni Buddhas. Sanghabheda is a misdeed that can only be done by a fully ordained bhiḳsu, for example, Devadatta.

Coëmgenu said:
This, though, is really close to the technical definition of "heresy" in Christianity. A heretic is someone who knows the true faith, departs from it, and encourages others to join him. For instance, the Catholic Church considers Luther a heretic. Modern day Lutherans, though, are not considered heretics, because they were born into that system. They never apostatized to a deranged doctrine and encouraged others to do so with them, because they were born to it.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, the point is that only a fully ordained bhiḳsu can do this, no one else. In Christianity, it is as simple as a confirmed lay person rejecting the Catholic Church and becoming a Buddhist, for example.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: Contradicting sutras
Content:



Admin_PC said:
I don't think this is comparable to blasphemy in Christianity...

Malcolm wrote:
There is no real heresy in Buddhadharma, apart from Sanghabheda, splitting the Sangha — declaring one's own system to be better than that of Śākyamuni Buddhas. Sanghabheda is a misdeed that can only be done by a fully ordained bhiḳsu, for example, Devadatta.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 3:12 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
None of these are quotes from Marx.  The first quote is from the Communist Manifesto, it was written by Marx AND Engels.

Coëmgenu said:
Engels made Marx better. The German Ideology is barely readable IMO.

Malcolm wrote:
Nevertheless, they both were bloody-minded, upper-middle class, living room revolutionaries who never were in any danger from the outcomes of their own irresponsible views.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 3:10 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Market economies function better than command economies for the majority of the people in them. They are not perfect, however, which is why they require sensible and humane regulation.

Grigoris said:
There are options outside of the two that you propose.  You frame the issue as if it is one or the other.

Malcolm wrote:
It is. Human beings like trading with one another, and resent being told what they can buy and what they cannot. 100,000 years of human history show this to be so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 2:18 AM
Title: Re: Drogön Chögyal Phagpaand and the Yuan Dynasty Daoist Debate
Content:
MiphamFan said:
Sam van Schaik made a blog post about this topic before: https://earlytibet.com/2008/09/30/phagpas-arrow/

ItsRaining said:
Thanks! Though I wish he wrote more on what he though about Daoism. Interesting that Phagpa wrote that Daoism is like Samkya which seems like an odd observation.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is perfect and accurate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 2:13 AM
Title: Re: Needed: Buddhist Terminology
Content:
SunWuKong said:
what is the correct Buddhist technical term for "indescribable joy that arises as a result of the Dharma, from practice?

Malcolm wrote:
Koolaid.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 2:12 AM
Title: Re: Tonglen from a Dzogchen Pov
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Tonglen is an old Kadampa thing. That said, there are certainly instructions on Tonglen by Dzogchen masters.

dzoki said:
I clearly remeber hearing and reading about dzogchen style tonglen. Garchen Rinpoche spoke about this practice during one of his teachings. It was somewhat different from classical lojong style tonglen. As I said, some of his closer students could comment. If I bump into that instruction in written form I will post a link.

TaTa said:
He metions this in his documentary "for the benefit of beings"


Malcolm wrote:
I would want to see a textual source.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 2:06 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Somehow I find it difficult to believe that Stalinism is what Marx had in store for the proletariat.  Hardly a workers utopia!

Consider this though:  If Stalinism was the solution, imagine how bad the problem was!
[The workers] must work to ensure that the immediate revolutionary excitement is not suddenly suppressed after the victory. On the contrary, it must be sustained as long as possible. Far from opposing the so-called excesses – instances of popular vengeance against hated individuals or against public buildings with which hateful memories are associated – the workers’ party must not only tolerate these actions but must even give them direction.

Malcolm wrote:
— Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels, Address of the Central Committee..., 1850

Grigoris said:
A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists.

Malcolm wrote:
— Friedrich Engels, On Authority, 1872

Grigoris said:
That force, however, plays yet another role in history, a revolutionary role; that, in the words of Marx, it is the midwife of every old society pregnant with a new one, that it is the instrument with the aid of which social movement forces its way through and shatters the dead, fossilised political forms

Malcolm wrote:
— Friedrich Engels, Anti-Duhring, 1877

Is it any wonder, with such blatant advocacy of violence and bloodshed, that Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, and Mao were birthed by such sentiments?

Grigoris said:
None of these are quotes from Marx.  The first quote is from the Communist Manifesto, it was written by Marx AND Engels.


Malcolm wrote:
Marx and Engles, one the patron, the other the  priest. Both the founding fathers of Communism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 2:06 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Dan74 said:
I don't know why Malcolm seems to warm up to Capitalism.

Malcolm wrote:
Market economies function better than command economies for the majority of the people in them. They are not perfect, however, which is why they require sensible and humane regulation.

For example, people rail against capitalism because they view it as being the cause of the present environmental crisis. This is really quite false, but it feels good to believe it be so. It's nice to have convenient scapegoats.

In reality, the actual cause of climate change is simply human ignorance, and in many cases, criminal indifference. And this applies universally, it is not a problem which can be isolated to this or that country, or this or that political economy. Climate change is the result of countless human decisions made since the 18th century, and especially after the adoption of concentrated hydrocarbons in the 19th century (coal, then oil) as sources for fuel and fertilizers leading to an explosion in human populations.

Unfortunately in the United States, the science of the matter has, absurdly, become a matter of ideological debate, just as environmentalism was ideologically discredited in the USSR in the 1930's, with its obvious effects on the environment in communist countries such as the USSR and elsewhere.

Many of the excesses of capitalism can be solved, among other measures, by pricing the cost of undeveloped capital in its raw form, as suggest in Natural Capitalism (Hawken, Lovins, and Lovins, 1999). The fundamental assumptions of Natural Capitalism are as follows: The limiting factor to future economic development is the availability and functionality of natural capital, in particular, life-supporting services that have no substitutes and currently have no market value.
Misconceived or badly designed business systems, population growth, and wasteful patterns of consumption are the primary causes of the loss of natural capital, and all three must be addressed to achieve a sustainable economy.
Future economic progress can best take place in democratic, market-based systems of production and distribution in which all forms of capital are fully valued, including human, manufactured, financial, and natural capital.
One of the keys to the most beneficial employment of people, money, and the environment is radical increases in resource productivity.
Human welfare is best served by improving the quality and flow of desired services delivered, rather than by merely increasing the total dollar flow. Economic and environmental sustainability depends on redressing global inequities of income and material well-being.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 1:23 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Marxism demonstrably produced communism.

Grigoris said:
Somehow I find it difficult to believe that Stalinism is what Marx had in store for the proletariat.  Hardly a workers utopia!

Consider this though:  If Stalinism was the solution, imagine how bad the problem was!
[The workers] must work to ensure that the immediate revolutionary excitement is not suddenly suppressed after the victory. On the contrary, it must be sustained as long as possible. Far from opposing the so-called excesses – instances of popular vengeance against hated individuals or against public buildings with which hateful memories are associated – the workers’ party must not only tolerate these actions but must even give them direction.

Malcolm wrote:
— Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels, Address of the Central Committee..., 1850

Grigoris said:
A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists.

Malcolm wrote:
— Friedrich Engels, On Authority, 1872

Grigoris said:
That force, however, plays yet another role in history, a revolutionary role; that, in the words of Marx, it is the midwife of every old society pregnant with a new one, that it is the instrument with the aid of which social movement forces its way through and shatters the dead, fossilised political forms

Malcolm wrote:
— Friedrich Engels, Anti-Duhring, 1877

Is it any wonder, with such blatant advocacy of violence and bloodshed, that Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, and Mao were birthed by such sentiments?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 24th, 2017 at 12:26 AM
Title: Re: Tonglen from a Dzogchen Pov
Content:
dzoki said:
There certainly are dzogchen instructions on tonglen - Khenpo Munsel taught this to Garchen Rinpoche and there was one other instance where it was mention, if I remember right it was in some teaching by Jigme Phuntsog Rinpoche. Maybe some student of either Garchen Rinpoche or Jigme Phuntsog Rinpoche could comment on that.

Malcolm wrote:
Tonglen is an old Kadampa thing. That said, there are certainly instructions on Tonglen by Dzogchen masters.

dzoki said:
I clearly remeber hearing and reading about dzogchen style tonglen. Garchen Rinpoche spoke about this practice during one of his teachings. It was somewhat different from classical lojong style tonglen. As I said, some of his closer students could comment. If I bump into that instruction in written form I will post a link.

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe, but for example, Tonglen as written about by Adzom Drugpa in his version of the Chetsun Nyingthig Ngondro, it just old Kadamapa style.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 11:43 PM
Title: Re: Tonglen from a Dzogchen Pov
Content:
dzoki said:
There certainly are dzogchen instructions on tonglen - Khenpo Munsel taught this to Garchen Rinpoche and there was one other instance where it was mention, if I remember right it was in some teaching by Jigme Phuntsog Rinpoche. Maybe some student of either Garchen Rinpoche or Jigme Phuntsog Rinpoche could comment on that.

Malcolm wrote:
Tonglen is an old Kadampa thing. That said, there are certainly instructions on Tonglen by Dzogchen masters.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified
Content:
Queequeg said:
They say that deer gather around enlightened beings.

Malcolm wrote:
Then everyone in upstate NY must be enlightened, because the deer population is a positive road hazard there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Coëmgenu said:
prompt and exact,

Malcolm wrote:
These ideograms are just reproducing "iti" and other similar formations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 11:07 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Lindama said:
idealogy, ideology.... whose the fairest of them all? it appears that marxism produced communism? ... is it true? I'm no expert but the nuances could be examined....

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto.


Lindama said:
so, the USA elected a populist?  haha

Malcolm wrote:
Democracy has its perils. Basically the US Green W. Party is to blame for 1) George Bush 2) Donald Trump.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 11:05 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Marxism produced communism, and for that reason alone, Marxism should be relegated to the dustbin of history.

Grigoris said:
Now who is being speculative?

Malcolm wrote:
Marxism demonstrably produced communism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 11:04 PM
Title: Re: Non-conceptual thoughts ... ?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Devoid of true ascetics are the systems of other teachers.

-- The Buddha.

If you don't believe him, who will you believe?

weitsicht said:
Firstly, to me Buddhism is no religion, hence no belief.
Secondly, Malcolm, where I am raised, it is not nice to respond questions with counter-questions.
Thirdly, I still ponder.

This separation of self and other, right and wrong does feel deceptive to me.

Malcolm wrote:
First, I am not from where you are raised, so our expectations differ.

Second, do you reject rebirth and karma?

Third, the Dharma in the beginning, teaches us to distinguish right from wrong, higher from lower, and so on.

Since karma is unerring,  wrong actions result in suffering, right actions in happiness. This is basic Buddhadharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 7:21 AM
Title: Re: bar rlung
Content:
Lukeinaz said:
Is the gentle vase as taught by TR the same as bar rlung?

Malcolm wrote:
who is TR?
\
Bar rlung is more or less the same.

Lukeinaz said:
Tsoknyi Rinpoche.  Is there any use training in bar rlung before fully developing kumbhaka?

Malcolm wrote:
Absolutely.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 7:20 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
rory said:
I don't think so Queequeg, this, somoku jobutsu is one of my favourite aspects of Tendai and dear to me: "From Saicho's time on, Tendai scholars would argue the position that grasses and trees can indeed of themselves arouse the aspiration for enlightenment ( bohdicitta, bodaishin ), cultivate practice, and achieve enlightenment. Annen in particular devoted great attention to this issue."
Original Enlightenment p. 29

And here is another Japanese Vajrayana-Avatamsaka pov: Kukai saw plants and trees as participating ontologically in the five great elements that compose the Dharma body and that " therefore, without change in their essence, they may without objection be referred to as 'Buddha.""
Ibid.

Now I'm off to chant at my altar, without sincere practice  all this talk means nothing:)!
gassho
Rory

jake said:
I don't think Kukai and Tendai are talking the same thing here. Characterizing the mountains, seas, clouds, etc. as the preaching of the Dharmakaya is not really the same thing as claiming they are a "Buddha" ala somoku jobutsu, as Stone appears to imply in the quote above.

I am struggling a bit to follow this thread. Terms are being used interchangeably that I don't think really should be, tathagatagarbha, hongaku shiso, buddha-nature, etc.

Interesting read though, thanks!


Malcolm wrote:
Buddhasvabhāva and tathāgatagarbha are definitely synonyms and are used that way many times in the Nirvana Sūtra:

Son of a good family, the so-called self is the tathāgatagarbha. The buddhasvabhāva that exists in all sentient is the meaning of "self." The meaning of "self" is obscured by the afflictions (saṃkleśa) from time without beginning, therefore, it is not seen by sentient beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 6:58 AM
Title: Re: Physiological suffering and implications for Buddhist path?
Content:


Stefos said:
In the Pali texts, Lord Buddha says "The 5 clinging aggregates are suffering"
This means that clinging is the causative for suffering not the aggregates in and of themselves per se.

Malcolm wrote:
The term is pañcopādānaskandha. Upādāna means "to take again," and bettered rendered "addiction." Thus, they are the five addictive aggregates.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Nobody is saying that authoritarian communism is not murderous, this is a straw man Malcolm threw up in order to draw attention away from his claim that capitalist societies are not responsible for mass exterminations.  A ludicrous claim.  It goes without saying that authoritarians kill people, that is the nature of authoritartianism:  the complete destruction of all forms of dissent by any means necessary.

Nobody has disagreed with this.

Quay said:
If a person really buys Marxist analogies & philosophy, especially the endless cycle of thesis-antithesis-synthesis, then capitalism produced authoritarian communism and thus indirectly produced all the murderousness.

Malcolm wrote:
Marxism produced communism, and for that reason alone, Marxism should be relegated to the dustbin of history.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Nobody is saying that authoritarian communism is not murderous, this is a straw man Malcolm threw up in order to draw attention away from his claim that capitalist societies are not responsible for mass exterminations.

Malcolm wrote:
In the 20th century, no liberal democracy has ever indulged in the kind of wanton murder we find with authoritarian regimes of the right and the left. Capitalism is the economic system peculiar to liberal democracies. Marxists may have other definitions of capitalism; but in general capitalism only exists  in those countries where universal rights to private ownership of property are guaranteed by the State. In many respects, Capitalism as we understand it today, is a post-WWI phenomena, though it has its antecedents principally in the shift of the British economy from mercantilism to global free trade during the 19th century.

That was my basic point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 6:38 AM
Title: Re: bar rlung
Content:
Lukeinaz said:
Is the gentle vase as taught by TR the same as bar rlung?

Malcolm wrote:
who is TR?
\
Bar rlung is more or less the same.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel
Content:
DGA said:
The truth is that we are NOT each other's teachers.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Dan74 said:
Sorry to butt in at this stage, but the 20 million directly killed by Stalin seems to be quite a stretch, Malcolm. I don't want to whitewash his crimes, but even Conquest's large estimate was 16mil and AFAIK there is no actual evidence to show that Stalin knew and understood of the catastrophic paranoia and competition for catching the saboteurs that had gripped the NKVD and the police of the USSR at the time. Of course the fish rots from the top and he was plenty paranoid himself, but this is different to say that he was directly complicit in the deaths.

Malcolm wrote:
Davies puts the number as high as 50 million.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 2:29 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
...after a brutal war not of their making

Grigoris said:
Really?  You believe that the Great Depression was not one of the causes of WWII?

Malcolm wrote:
No, Germany's economy began to recover as soon as they ceased paying reparations.




Grigoris said:
I disagree, it may seem that way but that is because in general, when it comes to politics, it is the innocents that are the first to be killed.

Malcolm wrote:
I meant, no one who is in politics, political struggles or wars on any side, are innocent. Dresden, for example, pure mass murder of civilians, like Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 2:27 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Without US support the Nazi collaborators would have lost the civil war, even if the Greek Communists lacked Stalin's support.

Malcolm wrote:
Speculating about what could have been is only good for alternative history novels. You can't know this, in fact.

Grigoris said:
It is not speculation.  The Communist Party of Greece had widespread popular public support, an experienced fighting force, guns and ammunition, and a well organised and functional structure.  The collaborators were a small and disdained portion of the population (due to their role in killing countless fellow Greeks) that relied heavily on the immensely unpopular German Nazis for support.  Unlike pre-Franco Spain, for example, the Greek leftists were unified.

Malcolm wrote:
You still cannot know this as a fact since it did not happen the way you might have wished it to.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 1:06 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Pero said:
Uh oh, I checked what pandaka means and - aren't we pretty much all pandakas in our time? Or at least cutting it pretty close.

Malcolm wrote:
Something you are trying to tell us, Pero?

Pero said:
ROFLMAO!

I was thinking of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandaka: "ussuyapandaka - A voyeur, a man who gains sexual satisfaction from watching a man and a woman having sex, and only becomes sexually aroused after that." Doesn't watching porn come pretty close to that?

Malcolm wrote:
If you can only be aroused by watching porn, then yes. If you do not need porn to become aroused, then no.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 12:46 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
Also, to clarify, he's not telling bodhisattvas to not teach, he's saying, don't associate with them.

Malcolm wrote:
Literally:

na ca paṇḍakasya dharmaṃ deśayati, na ca tena sārdhaṃ saṃstavaṃ karoti

Do not teach Dharma to paṇḍakas, nor should one associate with them.

It is a flat out imperative statement.

Pero said:
Uh oh, I checked what pandaka means and - aren't we pretty much all pandakas in our time? Or at least cutting it pretty close.

Malcolm wrote:
Something you are trying to tell us, Pero?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 23rd, 2017 at 12:14 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
Regarding what is perceived or unperceived by the Buddha-eye, I was recently reviewing the Tathágatagarbhasútra:

In a similar fashion [as the visual miracle preceeding], good sons, when I regard all beings with my buddha eye, I see that hidden within the kleshas [negative mental traits] of greed, desire, anger, and stupidity there is seated augustly and unmovingly the tathagata's wisdom, the tathagata's vision, and the tathagata's body. Good sons, all beings, though they find themselves with all sorts of kleshas, have a tathagatagarbha that is eternally unsullied, and that is replete with virtues no different from my own

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, precisely, buddhas see buddhas, not sentient beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 11:36 PM
Title: Re: Physiological suffering and implications for Buddhist path?
Content:


Seeker12 said:
Anyway, some thoughts. In part it's prompted by English translations of Buddhist concepts which I think don't always convey the meaning perfectly.

Malcolm wrote:
Sukha originally refers to the ease with which a wheel turns on its axle. Dukha is the opposite.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: yoga
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Of interest:

http://www.ahandfulofleaves.org/documents/Samatha-yana%20and%20Vipassana-yana_Cousins_1984.pdf


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 10:23 PM
Title: Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
Content:
pema tsultrim said:
When and where did Bhakha Tulku give the Guhyagarbha wang? I never heard about it. As he is one of my primary teachers, I would have loved to receive it from him.

P.T.

Malcolm wrote:
Bakha Tullku gave the Guhyagarbha Wang at his house in Berkely, CA in 1992.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 10:22 PM
Title: Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Same with Vajrayogini. Receiving Vajrayogini in Kagyu, does not qualify you to practice Naro Khachö in Sakya, even though the mantra is identical

Fortyeightvows said:
How was this done in india before there was kagyu and sakya?

Is this because the transmission or the sadhana come to the lineage masters directly from from the deity?

Malcolm wrote:
There are important differences in these two lineages concerning how the empowerments are given, instructions, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 10:20 PM
Title: Re: Morality of stockholding
Content:
MiphamFan said:
If you own index funds you probably own indirectly at least a tiny amount of alcohol-related and gun shares.

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on the fund. There are socially responsible funds:

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/mutualfund/03/030503.asp

However, they tend to underperform the market. However, some clean energy funds returned 40+ percent last year, a sign that internationally, the shift to solar and wind is finally becoming very profitable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 10:15 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
We are just going to have to face the fact that Capitalism, when forced to choose between siding with Communism or Fascism/Nazism, always chooses the later.

Malcolm wrote:
Historically, given that Western Liberal Democracies viewed communism as an existential threat at the time, and had recently broken Fascism after a brutal war not of their making, they tended to support anyone who they viewed as anticommunist.

Given the 25 million people Stalin murdered directly and the 40 million that Mao murdered directly, it is not surprising.

The French also used Vichy collaborators in their zone because of their contacts with Germans.

Politics and war are a dirty game, no one is innocent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 10:09 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Without US support the Nazi collaborators would have lost the civil war, even if the Greek Communists lacked Stalin's support.

Malcolm wrote:
Speculating about what could have been is only good for alternative history novels. You can't know this, in fact.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: private teaching
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You should attend the webcast retreat of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu and begin there. If you can, go to Tenerife, even better.

http://webcast.dzogchen.net


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 11:43 AM
Title: Re: Morality of stockholding
Content:


Inge said:
I probably read most topics posted in the Dzogchen forum, so that is why I posted it there. What I want to know though, is if owning shares in a company accumulates negative karma, and if this in any way is making obstacles to realizing Buddhahood.

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on the company —— I think owning shares of gun companies, not so good.

Inge said:
What about banks, or beer breweries?

Malcolm wrote:
depends on the bank, breweries, well selling alcohol is technically wrong livelihood.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 6:07 AM
Title: Re: Morality of stockholding
Content:
Inge said:
Do you think is it immoral to own shares in a company that makes profits from its employees?

Simon E. said:
The OP.
Because it was posted in the Dzogchen forum it is tempting to assume that Inge was making a particular case vis a vis Dzogchen.
But the point you make is valid. Being a Vajrayana practitioner of any hue including Dzogchen does not imply uniformity on all points of ethical behaviour or in political views.

Inge said:
I probably read most topics posted in the Dzogchen forum, so that is why I posted it there. What I want to know though, is if owning shares in a company accumulates negative karma, and if this in any way is making obstacles to realizing Buddhahood.

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on the company —— I think owning shares of gun companies, not so good.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 6:03 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
So, back to reality:  The US used Nazi collaborators to put down the Communists (the Greek Civil War) and then placed them in positions of power.  [

Malcolm wrote:
The reality is that Stalin never intended to help communists in Greece. It was all organized in the percentages agreement of 1944:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentages_agreement

It was really Britain that was involved in all of this, and the US only stepped in 1947 because Britain asked us to as they could not foot the bill. However, as Churchill said in 1956:
Stalin never broke his word to me. We agreed on the Balkans. I said he could have Romania and Bulgaria, and he said we could have Greece…When we went in in 1944 Stalin didn’t interfere.
If might have been the opposite. But in reality, it was Stalin's lack of interest in Greece that led to all that happened in post-war Greece. And of course, the Chinese were not even in the running until 1949...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
That's a nice fairytale.  Where is a facepalm smiley when you need one?  It would be more valid to say that Uncle Jo was rather overzealous in his attempt to deNazify the Eastern Bloc.  You also are ignorant of the fact that not all the Eastern Bloc was under the influence of the Soviet Union.  Yugoslavia and Albania, for example,  were allied to China and not Russia.

Malcolm wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification

Grigoris said:
And I quote:  "Very soon after the program started, due to the emergence of the Cold War, the western powers and the United States in particular began to lose interest in the program, and it was carried out in an increasingly lenient and lukewarm way until being officially abolished in 1951. The American government soon came to view the program as ineffective and counterproductive. Additionally, the program was hugely unpopular in Germany and was opposed by the new West German government."

You can't keep a good Nazi down!

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, after 8 years, they have up on it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 5:17 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
You know what all this talk about bodhisattva attainments makes me want to do?

Have a good gongyo and rejoice in the Buddhadharma!


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 4:19 AM
Title: Re: Wherever a Buddha appears - the world is purified
Content:
Queequeg said:
https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/the-buddha-of-oakland-transforms-california-neighborhood
The statue had a remarkable effect, however. People stopped leaving garbage and, gradually, the local residents began cleaning up the accumulation of detritus from the area. The drug dealers and prostitutes moved elsewhere to ply their wares, and the graffiti, once removed, didn’t return.

Malcolm wrote:
Fake news! (Kidding)


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 3:23 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
Also, to clarify, he's not telling bodhisattvas to not teach, he's saying, don't associate with them.

Malcolm wrote:
Literally:

na ca paṇḍakasya dharmaṃ deśayati, na ca tena sārdhaṃ saṃstavaṃ karoti

Do not teach Dharma to paṇḍakas, nor should one associate with them.

It is a flat out imperative statement.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 3:22 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
If you have realized emptiness, you have no problem maintaining concentration, the former requires the latter.

Minobu said:
are you referring to sunyata or some Dzogchen emptiness thing?

Malcolm wrote:
I am referring to the śūnyatā taught by the Buddha in the Mahāyāna Sūtras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 3:21 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Queequeg said:
No, its definitely a story of Sariputra. I got the details wrong - not sure the actual source. The point was that he renounced the bodhisattva path, thereby setting himself back significantly. I've read versions where he then sank into samsara for a while before getting back on the path. Point stands, its easy to lop off your arm compared to the concentration needed to really advance on the path.


Malcolm wrote:
If you have not realized emptiness, then yes — however, Shariputra was not an bodhisattva mahāsattva at this point, he was an ordinary bodhisattva, below the path of seeing.

A bodhisattva mahāsattva, according to the Sarvapuṇya-samuccaya-samādhi sūtra, cannot fall into the faulty state of a śrāvaka. The Nirvana Sūtra states that a bodhisattva mahāsattva cannot be distracted by either the māra of afflictions or the māra of the aggregates and also says they have no fear of desire, hatred, ignorance, birth, aging, illness, death, or falling into hell realm, animal realm or preta realm because they dwell on the stage of fearlessness. The Pañcaviṃśatisāhasrikā-prajñāpāramitā states that a bodhisattva who courses in emptiness cannot fall to the stage of a pratyekabuddha or a śrāvaka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:57 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Queequeg said:
And that's quite possible, too. But then what do we make of the rest of the admonitions? Are those scribner biases also?

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, why not? If you take a text critical pov of the sūtra, I think most scholars agree that Devadatta section was added quite late.

Queequeg said:
LOL. Have this cake, and eat it, too!


Malcolm wrote:
Well, all those people need the Dharma most, one would imagine. One can well imagine this is a penetration of brahmanical bias.

So you have on the one hand the Buddha telling us, "I am the father of all sentient beings" and on the other saying, "Don't teach Dharma to this sentient being, and that sentient being..."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:53 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha was definitely prosperity and profit oriented in his advice to lay people, at least the way he is represented everywhere in the sūtras.

treehuggingoctopus said:
Speaking to an audience 2500 years ago, the audience that lived in a world 2500 years away from ours -- the audience consisting of people starkly different from ours (even though equally afflicted by the three poisons).

Malcolm wrote:
So you are opposed to all profit?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:51 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The only conclusion I can draw is that these sentiments are reflective of the bias of the person who wrote the text down.

Queequeg said:
And that's quite possible, too. But then what do we make of the rest of the admonitions? Are those scribner biases also?

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, why not? If you take a text critical pov of the sūtra, I think most scholars agree that Devadatta section was added quite late.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Queequeg said:
Illustrating this point, I just recalled the story of Sariputra who was on the verge of Buddhahood in the past such that when a brahmin asked him for his eye, he plucked it out and gave it to him. When the brahmin tossed the eye away in disgust, Sariputra lost his concentration, got angry, and wiped out the stores of good karma. Concentration is hard - that's why even though we've given our lives for family, friends and rulers more times than we can count, we're still here.

Malcolm wrote:
On the verge of buddhahood? Not possible. Otherwise, you are elevating the notion of one-pointedness to a ridiculous extreme.

I think you are confusing your story with that of Nāgārjuna's disciple, Āryadeva. In that version, Āryadeva gives his eye to a blind beggar women who promptly eats it. He experiences a moment of regret, and because of that, his eye was not magically restored.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:47 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


treehuggingoctopus said:
Thank goodness Buddhism =/= Buddhadharma.

Malcolm wrote:
So Buddha's words are not Buddhadharma?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So your imagined wobbly factory is not privately owned by its workers? And profit is not an end? That isn't even Buddhist.

treehuggingoctopus said:
Evidently your Buddha is not my Buddha.

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha was definitely prosperity and profit oriented in his advice to lay people, at least the way he is represented everywhere in the sūtras. If lay people are not prosperous, how are they going to support a Sangha that engages in no productive work?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:42 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Queequeg said:
What conclusion ought be drawn?

Malcolm wrote:
My bad —— a bodhisattva mahāsattva is any bodhisattva on the stages -- but still my point stands, if one is able to offer one's eyes or limbs sentient beings, how could one possibly be distracted on the path since one has now realized emptiness?

The only conclusion I can draw is that these sentiments are reflective of the bias of the person who wrote the text down.

Queequeg said:
I watched a youtube movie about a yogi... not sure where. Maybe Ladakh? Anyway, he remarked, hundreds of thousands of prostrations are easy compared to maintaining single pointed focus. Medals of Honor were given out posthumously on a regular basis in WWI and WWII to men who jumped on grenades to save their fellows. I seriously doubt there were many practicing Buddhists, let alone bodhisattvas among those recipients.  I think you have it backwards about the difficulty of maintaining concentration.

Malcolm wrote:
If you have realized emptiness, you have no problem maintaining concentration, the former requires the latter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:37 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
Capitalism:

(1) private ownership of the means of production (which implies the owner/worker division), and
(2) production for profit.

Economics 101.

In other words: no, cooperatives are not intrisically capitalist, though they may co-inhabit the economic space with capitalist enterprises (assuming capitalists agree). Plenty of what is happening in the economic space of capitalist countries is in no way capitalist, btw, as Graeber nicely points out.


Malcolm wrote:
So your imagined wobbly factory is not privately owned by its workers? And profit is not an end? That isn't even Buddhist. The Buddha was definitely a capitalist by your definition:

The wise and virtuous shine like a blazing fire.
He who acquires his wealth in harmless ways
like to a bee that honey gathers,[6] 
riches mount up for him
like ant hill's rapid growth.

With wealth acquired this way,
a layman fit for household life,
in portions four divides his wealth:
thus will he friendship win.

One portion for his wants he uses,[7] 
two portions on his business spends,
the fourth for times of need he keeps.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.31.0.nara.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Queequeg said:
You're assuming these are bodhisattvas who have advanced that far.

Malcolm wrote:
It is basic to the definition of a bodhisattva mahāsattva.

Queequeg said:
What conclusion ought be drawn?

Malcolm wrote:
My bad —— a bodhisattva mahāsattva is any bodhisattva on the stages -- but still my point stands, if one is able to offer one's eyes or limbs sentient beings, how could one possibly be distracted on the path since one has now realized emptiness?

The only conclusion I can draw is that these sentiments are reflective of the bias of the person who wrote the text down.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:25 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
The instruction is for the mahasattva-bodhisattva to avoid pretty much anyone who might distract them from the path. What Malcolm is doing here is called trolling.

Malcolm wrote:
It is a bit strange that bodhisattva mahāsattvas should be enjoined from associating with anyone, since presumably they are bodhisattvas on the pure stages who have realized patience towards the non-arising of phenomena and can without a second thought offer their eyes or even their heads to those in need. How could such a highly realized being be distracted by anything?

Queequeg said:
You're assuming these are bodhisattvas who have advanced that far.

Malcolm wrote:
My bad —— a bodhisattva mahāsattva is any bodhisattva on the stages -- but still my point stands, if one is able to offer one's eyes or limbs sentient beings, how could one possibly be distracted on the path since one has now realized emptiness?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:19 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
The instruction is for the mahasattva-bodhisattva to avoid pretty much anyone who might distract them from the path. What Malcolm is doing here is called trolling.

Malcolm wrote:
It is a bit strange that bodhisattva mahāsattvas should be enjoined from associating with anyone, since presumably they are bodhisattvas on the pure stages who have realized patience towards the non-arising of phenomena and can without a second thought offer their eyes or even their heads to those in need. How could such a highly realized being be distracted by anything?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 2:12 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


pael said:
Can one born as man become paṇḍaka in same lifetime?

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, if you have your sexual organs removed, come out of the closet, become impotent or sterile, etc.

Minobu said:
so pandaka is a generic term for any m,ale that is not hetero sexual?
eunuchs born or dismembered are pandakas as well?

i find this repulsive...the teaching is flawed and i would like to know where you gug this stuff up and why are you teaching it?

Malcolm wrote:
There are five kinds of paṇḍakas; intersexed people, impotent men, homosexuals, eunuchs, and men who can only become aroused by watching others engaged in sexual intercourse.

The Lotus Sūtra states, in chapter 14 (chapter 13 in the Sanskrit and Tibetan recensions):

na ca paṇḍakasya dharmaṃ deśayati, na ca tena sārdhaṃ saṃstavaṃ karoti

Do not teach Dharma to paṇḍakas, nor should one associate with them.

It says also:

strīpaṇḍakāśca ye sattvāḥ saṃstavaṃ tairvivarjayet| 

Avoid associating with female and paṇḍaka sentient beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 1:31 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Queequeg said:
Can't take credit, except for the flourish:


Lotus Sutra, Chapter 3


Lotus Sutra, Chapter 16

Malcolm wrote:
Unless, of course, they are paṇḍakas, in which case they apparently should be shunned.

pael said:
Can one born as man become paṇḍaka in same lifetime?

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, if you have your sexual organs removed, come out of the closet, become impotent or sterile, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 1:28 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:



treehuggingoctopus said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Workers_of_the_World

Malcolm wrote:
Just capitalism by another name.

treehuggingoctopus said:
Black is white, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, if you have a factory, you have to have a market to sell the things the factory makes — it does not matter much whether that factory is owned collectively or privately. Also, a factory cannot make everything necessary for living, so it will have to issue wages in some form to the workers where they can buy food, clothes, and other things which the factory itself cannot make. As I said, capitalism by another name. Unless, of course, you intend your factory to inhabit a command economy, and we have already ample evidence to see where those lead.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 1:25 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
CedarTree said:
I like this a lot

Themes of family, love, and the simple stuff - Gets at it way better.

Queequeg said:
Can't take credit, except for the flourish:
I am the father of living beings and I should rescue them from their sufferings and give them the joy of the measureless and boundless buddha wisdom so that they may find their enjoyment in that.
Lotus Sutra, Chapter 3
I am the father of this world,
saving those who suffer and are afflicted.
Lotus Sutra, Chapter 16

Malcolm wrote:
Unless, of course, they are paṇḍakas, in which case they apparently should be shunned.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 1:00 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
What's a Wobblie.

treehuggingoctopus said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Workers_of_the_World

Malcolm wrote:
Just capitalism by another name.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 12:54 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Oh, I am under no illusions about Capitalism, it's destructiveness and so on. I just prefer living in a free country to living in a totalitarian regime, with all it's flaws. I think most people living in the West prefer living in the market economies.

Grigoris said:
What you are failing to understand is that your freedom is paid for by the oppression of others.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes and no. If you define oppression as some people having more than others, well, yes -- but that is karma.

One of the reasons for Trump's rise is that inaccurate perception by some that globalism is depriving the US of jobs. Actually, globalism has shifted the lives of millions of people in China, Vietnam and so on. I think their attitudes towards being "oppressed" are rather different -- a generation ago, these people faced working in rice paddies for life. Now, it may be noble to work in rice paddies, and there are all kinds of reasons for why the disruption of subsistence living in many parts of the world is not a positive thing, but I doubt many of those people would go back to the rice paddies.

So it is fun and all to take shots at the US and white middle class males, but you, a white middle class male, are not going to change the world, and frankly, no one is. When I look around the world, what I see is that people who live in Western Europe and the US (as well as Canada, Australia, and NZ) have the best living conditions and as far as it goes, the most democracy.

There is no pie in the sky system that will make sure everyone has an equal portion.


Grigoris said:
It is easy for you: a well educated white middle class male living in the wealthiest and most powerful country in the West to laud the benefits of capitalism, but if you ask a Honduran banana plantation worker what they think, you may get a different response.

Malcolm wrote:
Capitalism definitely has problems. The other systems are worse.

Grigoris said:
Unfortunately, the conditions of the Honduran are those of the majority of the world's population under capitalism, your conditions are those of a small minority.

Malcolm wrote:
Karma, dude. What did the Buddha say?

2. "Master Gotama, what is the reason, what is the condition, why inferiority and superiority are met with among human beings, among mankind? For one meets with short-lived and long-lived people, sick and healthy people, ugly and beautiful people, insignificant and influential people, poor and rich people, low-born and high-born people, stupid and wise people. What is the reason, what is the condition, why superiority and inferiority are met with among human beings, among mankind?"

3. "Student, beings are owners of kammas, heirs of kammas, they have kammas as their progenitor, kammas as their kin, kammas as their homing-place. It is kammas that differentiate beings according to inferiority and superiority."

Trying to replace capitalism with some other system is first, not going to happen; second, will do nothing to prevent inequality.

Grigoris said:
So the next time you are munching on your cut-price Honduran banana don't forget to praise capitalism and pass the bullets.

Malcolm wrote:
I only buy very expensive, fair trade bananas from stores that charge me a premium to assuage my white male capitalist guilt, thank you very much.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Minobu said:
i see that once attained you can  no longer turn it off....which does not mean that the Buddha no longer knows what common mortals perceive.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhas know what sentient beings perceive, they just don't perceive it themselves. For example, buddhas only perceive sentient beings as other buddhas, they do not perceive them as sentient beings. But they know that sentient beings suffer from delusion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
That's a nice fairytale.  Where is a facepalm smiley when you need one?  It would be more valid to say that Uncle Jo was rather overzealous in his attempt to deNazify the Eastern Bloc.  You also are ignorant of the fact that not all the Eastern Bloc was under the influence of the Soviet Union.  Yugoslavia and Albania, for example,  were allied to China and not Russia.

Malcolm wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 12:15 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Basically, I think your perspective is romantic.

Grigoris said:
I think I prefer Toby's romanticism to your idea that our rapist is going to restore our virginity.  But then again: I've  always been a sucker for romance.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, I am under no illusions about Capitalism, it's destructiveness and so on. I just prefer living in a free country to living in a totalitarian regime, with all it's flaws. I think most people living in the West prefer living in the market economies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 22nd, 2017 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Need I remind you that Europe was essentially occupied by the US after WWII:  remember the Marshall Plan?

Malcolm wrote:
Lucky for you, otherwise it would have been the Russians.

Grigoris said:
Yeah, we were so lucky in Greece to have the US support the Nazi collaborators against the popular (Communist) movement that liberated Greece from Fascist Italian, Nazi German and Bulgarian collaborationist control.  Sometimes your level of political ignorance astounds even me.  I put it down to the dregs of McCarthyism that still infect Us political thought.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and the Allies used Japanese soldiers to police areas of liberated Asia, German troops to police areas of Germany and so on.

Communists in Europe at that time were just as totalitarian as fascists.

Thus, it is still is better for you that the Allies (US, Britain, France) occupied Western Europe rather than the Soviets.

The Soviets, btw, never denazified east Germany or Austria, or the Ukraine, or any where else in their sphere of influence.

Once everything settled down after the war, the Allies systematically denazified West Germany, and defascsized Italy, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 11:55 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Enter? I though the point was to escape.

liuzg150181 said:
Edit: Got mixed up btw the movie title and its game counterpart:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enter_the_Matrix



Queequeg said:
Someday they will make a rpg of the Bodhisattva path and you will need empowerments to play it. Oh wait, that's called life.

Malcolm wrote:
That was done in the 13th century by Sakya Pandita.

https://www.himalayanart.org/items/101704


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
I think it is high time we agreed to disagree, Malcolm.

Malcolm wrote:
What's the point of that?

treehuggingoctopus said:
I am not quite sure if I understand your question.

Malcolm wrote:
We agreed to disagree a long time ago.

Basically, I think your perspective is romantic. You are advocating for a social system that has never existed anywhere at any time because you are hopeful that humans beings are not as awful as we actually are.

I happen to think that all of the environmental damage wrought by humans in the last 500 years would have happened under any kind of possible economic system, driven largely by the Columbian exchange.

Finally, it may be the case that our views on these matters are, as suggested above, entirely cultural, the difference between Continental and Anglo-American perspectives.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


liuzg150181 said:
Can't help it but to post this pic:

CedarTree said:
Wicked picture.  Kinda gets at it.

liuzg150181 said:
Enter the Nirvana,I mean,Enter the Matrix.

Malcolm wrote:
Enter? I though the point was to escape.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 11:32 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
I think it is high time we agreed to disagree, Malcolm.

Malcolm wrote:
What's the point of that?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 11:14 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


treehuggingoctopus said:
I am a Wobblie and so all for building the new within the shell of the old. But essentially capitalism = institutionalised greed as the highest value.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the basis of Capitalism is the private ownership of property, based on Anglo-Roman law that is literally centuries old. And this institutionalized greed you speak of, I know of no political or economic system than can stem the affliction of greed, including Socialism.

As far as democratic socialism, Marx, in my opinion, never understood the Anglo-American system, and I do not think he understood democracy or the American revolution. His attitudes were born not within the sphere of Anglo-American ethics and jurisprudence, he was a devotee of Hegel, not Hume.

treehuggingoctopus said:
The sooner it goes (and is replaced with a healthier set of values), the greater our chance of protecting what remains of biodiversity -- and, who knows, maybe even retaining a planet where the homo sapiens can live.

Malcolm wrote:
Socialism is no more biocentric than Capitalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 11:06 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Need I remind you that Europe was essentially occupied by the US after WWII:  remember the Marshall Plan?

Malcolm wrote:
Lucky for you, otherwise it would have been the Russians.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 10:45 PM
Title: Re: Non-conceptual thoughts ... ?
Content:



weitsicht said:
Malcolm, maybe it's a too far shot to ask about the Qualities of an enlightened Person an how someone else can see.

But how sure are you about theists or pagans being incapable to attain enlightenment.

I am just thinking of Rumi, Meister Eckhart, Heraclitus, ...

Malcolm wrote:
I am sure about the Buddha's Lion's Roar:

In whatsoever Dhamma and Discipline, Subhadda, there is not found the Noble Eightfold Path, neither is there found a true ascetic of the first, second, third, or fourth degree of saintliness. But in whatsoever Dhamma and Discipline there is found the Noble Eightfold Path, there is found a true ascetic of the first, second, third, and fourth degrees of saintliness.[54] Now in this Dhamma and Discipline, Subhadda, is found the Noble Eightfold Path; and in it alone are also found true ascetics of the first, second, third, and fourth degrees of saintliness. Devoid of true ascetics are the systems of other teachers.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.16.1-6.vaji.html

weitsicht said:
can't someone adhere to the Noble Eightfold Path without knowing OR with calling it differently?
Padmasambhava was in one life in Africa, HH Dalai Lama remembers of Old Egypt - all regions where Dharama was not spread whatsoever.
Maybe one of These guys' conscious stream WAS Heraclitus hmmm...

Malcolm wrote:
Devoid of true ascetics are the systems of other teachers.

-- The Buddha.

If you don't believe him, who will you believe?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sarkar is a major voice in that discourse.

treehuggingoctopus said:
Not in Europe.

Malcolm wrote:
Most socialists these days are democratic socialists.
Ok, you mean they advocate for a coordinated market economy -- this is still Capitalism.

treehuggingoctopus said:
No. I do not mean social democracy (e.g., Bernie Sanders) but democratic socialism. Where "democratic" stands for the acceptance of the parliamentary process (or any other, more satisfying form of democracy), the process of getting there, and the decision-making process of the society to come. But it is still socialism, with all the three markers of socialism in one of the posts in the thread.

Malcolm wrote:
Ok, so there is no country that actually practices this.


Even Marxian socialists reject much of Marx's apparatus, or understand it in a totally different way
Sort of like Buddhism without rebirth.
No, for the reason I mentioned, i.e., the intrinsically dialectical nature of Marxian thought.
Right, sure —— we can change our entire approach to things because Marx said our thought was dialectical...really, this is very weak.

Well, the resistance has not died out yet. You could put it differently: since the collapse of the welfare state and the emergence of neoliberalism we have not managed to even mitigate the ongoing planetary catastrophe called capitalism, let alone undo it.
In other words, Capitalism won. The only path forward is through Capitalism, which will either survive by properly pricing environmental risk, or we will all die gasping for air.
It seems to me that we have learned a few critically important lessons. More and more people on the left are now agreeing that what we need above all else right now is (1) a clearly articulated set of values (more than any well-defined solutions), the kind of values which are truly worth living out, and (2) narratives, big and small, centred upon and shedding light on these values.
Greed generally trumps values.
I am quite happy too that in Europe at least the genuinely green thought and the genuinely left-wing discourse are getting closer and closer to each other. Streeck has recently come out as a degrowth devotee, pretty much -- in his recent texts he advocates for an abstention-based culture.

Streeck on the crucial challenge which any genuinely left-wing project must face:
Ultimately it will have to answer the question how it will convincingly communicate the need for a global modernity that learns to conserve resources, physical and social, rather than continuing to use them up; to switch from creative destruction to creative protection, including protection from excessive free trade (not leaving this to the Trumps of this world); to appreciate the economics of subsistence as opposed to expansion; to slow down rather than speed up; and to start a perestroyka that does not amount to uskoreniye, meaning acceleration, which was the late-communist reform project of Gorbachev, but to controlled deceleration, de-capitalization, more local development, more collectivism and solidarity – in short, a project as utopian as it can possibly be, but probably equally necessary
We will never see a greentopia in our lifetime.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 10:31 PM
Title: Re: Winter Solstice - significance in Buddhism
Content:



Nicholas Weeks said:
Other than this Dzogchen practice, is there any other text or practice suggested?

Malcolm wrote:
This is the only text I know of that specifically recommends it be recited on solstices and equinoxes.

Nicholas Weeks said:
Is this (or any) Solstice, a merit multiplying time, generally speaking?

Malcolm wrote:
Not as far as I know.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 10:23 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
I don't see it. It is an axiomatic definition that buddhas are free from all traces and all obscurations. There are no conditions under which a buddha can experience anger, for example. This citation does not support your idea.

illarraza said:
The Buddha in the Nirvana Sutra and other Sutra certainly manifests anger for the sake of the Law:

Malcolm wrote:
Ah, no, there is no anger expressed in those words. You're tripping again mark.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 10:21 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Queequeg said:
Is there a redundancy here?

Malcolm wrote:
No. https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book/the-treatise-on-the-great-virtue-of-wisdom-volume-iii/d/doc82367.html:

Here are the eighteen special attributes (aṣṭādaśāveṇikadharma):

1. The Tathāgata has no bodily defect (nāsti tathāgatasya skhalitam).

2. He has no vocal defect (nāsti ravitam).

3. He has no failure of memory (nāsti muṣitasmṛtitā).

4. He has no notion of variety (nāsti nāmātvasaṃjñā).

5. He does not have an unconcentrated mind (nāsty asamāhitaṃ cittam).

6. He does not have thoughtless indifference (nāsty apratisaṃkhyāyopekṣā).

7. He has no loss of zealousness (nāsti chandaparihāṇiḥ).

8. He has no loss of exertion (nāsti vīryaparihāṇiḥ.

9. He has no loss of mindfulness (nāsti smṛtiparihāṇiḥ).

10. He has no loss of wisdom (nāsti prajñāparihāṇiḥ).

11. He has no loss of liberation (nāsti vimuktiparihāṇiḥ).

12. He has no loss of the knowledge and vision of deliverance (nāsti vimuktijñmanadarśanapariāṇiḥ).

13. Every bodily action of the Tathāgata is preceded by knowledge and accompanies knowledge (sarvaṃ tathātagatasya kāyakarma jñānapūrvaṃgamaṃ jñānānuparivarti).

14. Every vocal action is preceded by knowledge and accompanies knowledge (sarvaṃ vākkarma jñānapūrvaṃgamaṃ jñānānuparivarti).

15. Every mental action is preceded by knowledge and accompanies knowledge (sarvaṃ manaskarma jñānapūrvaṃgamaṃ jñānānuparivarti).

16. He has non-attached and unobstructed knowledge about past time (atīte ’dhvany asaṅgam apratihataṃ jñmanaṃ darśanam).

17. He has non-attached and unobstructed knowledge about future time (anāgate ’dhvany asaṅgam apratihataṃ jñānaṃ darśanam). [Page 511]

18. He has non-attached and unobstructed knowledge about the present time (pratyutpanne ’dhvany asaṅgam apratihataṃ jñānaṃ darśanam).

illarraza said:
The Buddha also taught that he attained Enlightenment for the first time under the tree. The Lotus Sutra has also demolished that earlier teaching, not to say that of your pie in the sky perfect (Christian-like) God-Buddha.

Malcolm wrote:
Mark, the 18 above listed special qualities are found in the Lotus Sūtra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 10:20 PM
Title: Re: Winter Solstice - significance in Buddhism
Content:
Mantrik said:
Today is the Winter Solstice.

Is there any significance given to the Solstices in the Buddhist calendar, or any particular rituals associated with them, for example in Vajrayana?

Malcolm wrote:
A good day to read the Mon lam stobs po che, the aspiration of Adibuddha Samantabhadra.

Nicholas Weeks said:
Other than this Dzogchen practice, is there any other text or practice suggested?

Malcolm wrote:
This is the only text I know of that specifically recommends it be recited on solstices and equinoxes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 10:06 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Really? Than why does Saral Sarkar insist that it will be necessary in his Ecosocialism book?

treehuggingoctopus said:
Sarkar is ultimately a marginal figure, in no way representative of ecosocialism (which so far has been a fundamentally heterogenous phenomenon), let alone socialism in general.

Malcolm wrote:
Sarkar is a major voice in that discourse.

treehuggingoctopus said:
Most socialists these days are democratic socialists.

Malcolm wrote:
Ok, you mean they advocate for a coordinated market economy -- this is still Capitalism.

treehuggingoctopus said:
Even Marxian socialists reject much of Marx's apparatus, or understand it in a totally different way

Malcolm wrote:
Sort of like Buddhism without rebirth.

treehuggingoctopus said:
After 1968 we thought that the marginalised will lead the way. They did not then, have not since, and identity politics quickly became the heart of the liberal (as opposed to the leftwing, or the conservative, etc.) discourse; neoliberalism can accommodate it as well.

Malcolm wrote:
In other words, Capitalism won.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 9:37 PM
Title: Re: New Tax Plan is a war on the Disabled, Poor, and a Boon to the Rich, Corperations, and Foreign Trade partners of the
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 9:34 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
crazy-man said:
US Has Killed More Than 20 Million People in 37 “Victim Nations” Since World War II
https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-has-killed-more-than-20-million-people-in-37-victim-nations-since-world-war-ii/5492051

Malcolm wrote:
Fake news.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 9:32 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In fact, the peninsula was split into two in 1948, and the North invaded the South in 1950. And, it was a UN war, not a US war.

Grigoris said:
Last I looked the peninsula was still in one piece and there were two proxy governments wrangling over it's control.

The US was the UN back then.

Malcolm wrote:
Europe is one piece also.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 9:30 PM
Title: Re: Winter Solstice - significance in Buddhism
Content:
Mantrik said:
Today is the Winter Solstice.

Is there any significance given to the Solstices in the Buddhist calendar, or any particular rituals associated with them, for example in Vajrayana?

Malcolm wrote:
A good day to read the Mon lam stobs po che, the aspiration of Adibuddha Samantabhadra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 8:08 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
When the Buddha witnesses a vase, he witnesses a vase. He doesn't witness a gourd, for instance, which can have a similar shape.

When I witness a vase, I witness a vase. I do not witness a gourd. Neither does the Buddha.

Thats how I see it at least.

The argumentation you set forth seems to me to imply that the Buddhas witness a reality that is substantially different, possibly 'opposite' in many ways, the reality we experience. This seems to me to imply that the relative truths is something very different from the ultimate truth, to the extent that a vase, looked at ultimately, may actually be a teacup, or a horse.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, the Lotus Sūtra actually says that buddhas do see a substantially different conventional reality than we do:

When sentient beings see themselves
Amidst a conflagration
At the end of a kalpa,
It is in fact my tranquil land,
Always full of devas and humans.
All the gardens and palaces
Are adorned with various gems...
Although my Pure Land never decays,
The sentient beings see it as ravaged by fire
And torn with anxiety and distress;
They believe it is filled with these things.
[BDK edition]

Coëmgenu said:
But, logically, if the Buddha's cannot "see" relative truth, they would have no way of knowing that sentient beings experience a conflagration at the end of a kalpa, and would have no way of knowing that they see it as filled with flame, and could not have preached this sutra, right?


Malcolm wrote:
A buddha's omniscience is such that even they do not perceive the phenomena of relative truth, they know how sentient beings perceive and teach accordingly, that's covered in the "omniscience of all aspects" part of a buddha's two fold omniscience.

I guess you need to study how buddhas know and what they know.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 6:32 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The Korean war was started by North Korea.

Grigoris said:
There is no north and south Korea, there is the Korean peninsula and a proxy war (which started after the defeat of the Imperial Japanese forces that had annexed Korea) which is continuing up until this day.


Malcolm wrote:
In fact, the peninsula was split into two in 1948, and the North invaded the South in 1950. And, it was a UN war, not a US war.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 6:17 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Somehow, I don't think those being murdered really care whether it is direct or indirect, the outcome for them is the same.  But seriousy, somehow I don't think that dropping a nuke on somebody or invading their country is all that indirect...

Malcolm wrote:
The US just does not compare with Stalin, Mao, or Hitler's numbers, even if we include the 19th century genocide of Native people in the US and slaves being murdered by whites.

Grigoris said:
Vietnam?  Korea?  Iraq?  Afghanistan?  Proxy wars?  Support to dictatorships?  Etc?

Malcolm wrote:
The Korean war was started by North Korea.

During the American occupation of Iraq, 2003-2011, less than a million people died either as a direct or indirect result of American military actions, around 500k.

Vietnam is:

Allied military deaths 282,000 (52k US)
NVA/VC military deaths	444,000
Civilian deaths (North and South Vietnam)	627,000

Afghanistan is 111,000 killed, including soldiers and civilians. By contrast, during the Soviet-Afghan war, by some estimates 2 million people lost their lives. The low end is 500k plus.

But frankly, Mao (40 million+) and Stalin (25 million+) murdered their own civilians.

The US just does not bat that high, never has.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 5:22 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
So your report is based an idealisation of the definition of capitalism to the point where no existing system can be called capitalism, thus exonerating capitalism of all blame?

If I remember correctly I gave at least five valid examples which you ignored.

Malcolm wrote:
All I am really pointing out is that liberal democracies tend towards directly murdering less people than authoritarian regimes, whether right wing or left. The economic system of all liberal democracies is capitalism, whether they are liberal market economies, like the UK, US, Canada, NZ and Australia, or coordinated market economies like Germany, Sweden, Japan, and so on.

Grigoris said:
Somehow, I don't think those being murdered really care whether it is direct or indirect, the outcome for them is the same.  But seriousy, somehow I don't think that dropping a nuke on somebody or invading their country is all that indirect...

Malcolm wrote:
The US just does not compare with Stalin, Mao, or Hitler's numbers, even if we include the 19th century genocide of Native people in the US and slaves being murdered by whites.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 4:49 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
If you lack of delusion results in a diminished capacity for perception, then I would call it a diminishment of capacity.

Malcolm wrote:
One would not say that a man who sees a rope as a rope has diminished capacity because he does not perceive it as a snake.

Coëmgenu said:
When the Buddha witnesses a vase, he witnesses a vase. He doesn't witness a gourd, for instance, which can have a similar shape.

When I witness a vase, I witness a vase. I do not witness a gourd. Neither does the Buddha.

Thats how I see it at least.

The argumentation you set forth seems to me to imply that the Buddhas witness a reality that is substantially different, possibly 'opposite' in many ways, the reality we experience. This seems to me to imply that the relative truths is something very different from the ultimate truth, to the extent that a vase, looked at ultimately, may actually be a teacup, or a horse.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, the Lotus Sūtra actually says that buddhas do see a substantially different conventional reality than we do:

When sentient beings see themselves
Amidst a conflagration
At the end of a kalpa,
It is in fact my tranquil land,
Always full of devas and humans.
All the gardens and palaces
Are adorned with various gems...
Although my Pure Land never decays,
The sentient beings see it as ravaged by fire
And torn with anxiety and distress;
They believe it is filled with these things.
[BDK edition]


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 4:04 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
Before you were a Buddha, you used to be able to perceive relative truths. Now you cannot. Your capacities have been diminished?

Malcolm wrote:
No, before you were a buddha you were deluded, now you are not. How can you go from "cannot be deluded" to "diminished capacity"? It doesn't make sense.

Coëmgenu said:
If you lack of delusion results in a diminished capacity for perception, then I would call it a diminishment of capacity.

Malcolm wrote:
One would not say that a man who sees a rope as a rope has diminished capacity because he does not perceive it as a snake.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 4:02 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
Buddhadharmana - can we get a working translation of this?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, dharmāṇa is plural form of dharma. The Tibetan reads very clearly: sangs rgyas chos rnams, buddhadharmas. It is entirely unambiguous in Tibetan and Sanskrit. It is only ambiguous in Chinese since there are no plural forms for nouns.

Queequeg said:
There is nothing really ambiguous in Chinese.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course there is, for example, the absence of plural nouns makes Chinese ambiguous in many cases. It also changes the meaning completely.


Queequeg said:
If found a commentary where the 18 qualities are combined with the 32 features to make 60 features. I don't know what significance to give that.

Malcolm wrote:
Me either.

Queequeg said:
In any event, the import seems to be that the Buddha is constantly considering how to contrive the way for all beings to become Buddha - whether we emphasize the body or the qualities.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that is the point.

But the reason I brought it up is that when using citations, if they are not completely accurate, or at least explained within the context of a commentarial tradition, one can really go a wrong way and mislead others.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 3:56 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
On the other hand, if the Buddha "cannot see" relative truths, that means that becoming a Buddha diminishes your faculties/capacities.

Malcolm wrote:
not at all

Coëmgenu said:
Before you were a Buddha, you used to be able to perceive relative truths. Now you cannot. Your capacities have been diminished?

Malcolm wrote:
No, before you were a buddha you were deluded, now you are not. How can you go from "cannot be deluded" to "diminished capacity"? It doesn't make sense.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 3:31 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Minobu said:
does this goes back to your Buddhas only see other Buddhas...but further...
if i am right you are saying Buddhas can no longer perceive the conventional...and in this case that is the only word i can think of...and do not agree at all with it.

and then again you state


if you are saying that once attained Buddhahood  limits ones perception

Malcolm wrote:
Relative truth is the deluded perception of sentient beings, this is basic to its definition.

Maintaining that buddhas perceive relative truths is the same as maintaining they are deluded.

The omniscience of the buddha has two components, a buddha is omniscience about all that there is and they are omniscience about every aspect, but it is not the case that they perceive the world the way we do, because if they did, the consequence would be that the buddhas would be deluded.

Coëmgenu said:
On the other hand, if the Buddha "cannot see" relative truths, that means that becoming a Buddha diminishes your faculties/capacities.

Malcolm wrote:
not at all


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 3:17 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
The source is the Mahāprajñāparamitāśastra credited to Nāgārjuna. I thought it was clear in the link.

Queequeg said:
No. The rigpawki link that apparently is wrong.

Malcolm wrote:
I meant this link:
https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book/the-treatise-on-the-great-virtue-of-wisdom-volume-iii/d/doc82367.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 3:08 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Queequeg said:
Is there a redundancy here?

Malcolm wrote:
No. https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book/the-treatise-on-the-great-virtue-of-wisdom-volume-iii/d/doc82367.html:

Here are the eighteen special attributes (aṣṭādaśāveṇikadharma):

1. The Tathāgata has no bodily defect (nāsti tathāgatasya skhalitam).

2. He has no vocal defect (nāsti ravitam).

3. He has no failure of memory (nāsti muṣitasmṛtitā).

4. He has no notion of variety (nāsti nāmātvasaṃjñā).

5. He does not have an unconcentrated mind (nāsty asamāhitaṃ cittam).

6. He does not have thoughtless indifference (nāsty apratisaṃkhyāyopekṣā).

7. He has no loss of zealousness (nāsti chandaparihāṇiḥ).

8. He has no loss of exertion (nāsti vīryaparihāṇiḥ.

9. He has no loss of mindfulness (nāsti smṛtiparihāṇiḥ).

10. He has no loss of wisdom (nāsti prajñāparihāṇiḥ).

11. He has no loss of liberation (nāsti vimuktiparihāṇiḥ).

12. He has no loss of the knowledge and vision of deliverance (nāsti vimuktijñmanadarśanapariāṇiḥ).

13. Every bodily action of the Tathāgata is preceded by knowledge and accompanies knowledge (sarvaṃ tathātagatasya kāyakarma jñānapūrvaṃgamaṃ jñānānuparivarti).

14. Every vocal action is preceded by knowledge and accompanies knowledge (sarvaṃ vākkarma jñānapūrvaṃgamaṃ jñānānuparivarti).

15. Every mental action is preceded by knowledge and accompanies knowledge (sarvaṃ manaskarma jñānapūrvaṃgamaṃ jñānānuparivarti).

16. He has non-attached and unobstructed knowledge about past time (atīte ’dhvany asaṅgam apratihataṃ jñmanaṃ darśanam).

17. He has non-attached and unobstructed knowledge about future time (anāgate ’dhvany asaṅgam apratihataṃ jñānaṃ darśanam). [Page 511]

18. He has non-attached and unobstructed knowledge about the present time (pratyutpanne ’dhvany asaṅgam apratihataṃ jñānaṃ darśanam).

Queequeg said:
Thank you.

I was misled by this: http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Eighteen_unshared_qualities_of_a_buddha

Can you comment on this source and its reliability in general?

Malcolm wrote:
The source is the Mahāprajñāparamitāśastra credited to Nāgārjuna. I thought it was clear in the link.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 3:02 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
It goes to the question whether buddhas have conventional perceptions or not. Do buddhas perceive sentient beings? Do buddhas even have perception along any lines we can conceive?

Minobu said:
does this goes back to your Buddhas only see other Buddhas...but further...
if i am right you are saying Buddhas can no longer perceive the conventional...and in this case that is the only word i can think of...and do not agree at all with it.

and then again you state
Malcolm wrote:
Again, this is noncontroversial. If there were no sentient beings, there would be no need for buddhas to appear.

Minobu said:
if you are saying that once attained Buddhahood  limits ones perception

Malcolm wrote:
Relative truth is the deluded perception of sentient beings, this is basic to its definition.

Maintaining that buddhas perceive relative truths is the same as maintaining they are deluded.

The omniscience of the buddha has two components, a buddha is omniscience about all that there is and they are omniscience about every aspect, but it is not the case that they perceive the world the way we do, because if they did, the consequence would be that the buddhas would be deluded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 2:56 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
Buddhadharmana - can we get a working translation of this?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, dharmāṇa is plural form of dharma. The Tibetan reads very clearly: sangs rgyas chos rnams, buddhadharmas. It is entirely unambiguous in Tibetan and Sanskrit. It is only ambiguous in Chinese since there are no plural forms for nouns.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
the ten powers, the four kinds of fearlessness, the four methods of gaining trust, the eighteen excellent qualities

Queequeg said:
Is there a redundancy here?

Malcolm wrote:
No. https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book/the-treatise-on-the-great-virtue-of-wisdom-volume-iii/d/doc82367.html:

Here are the eighteen special attributes (aṣṭādaśāveṇikadharma):

1. The Tathāgata has no bodily defect (nāsti tathāgatasya skhalitam).

2. He has no vocal defect (nāsti ravitam).

3. He has no failure of memory (nāsti muṣitasmṛtitā).

4. He has no notion of variety (nāsti nāmātvasaṃjñā).

5. He does not have an unconcentrated mind (nāsty asamāhitaṃ cittam).

6. He does not have thoughtless indifference (nāsty apratisaṃkhyāyopekṣā).

7. He has no loss of zealousness (nāsti chandaparihāṇiḥ).

8. He has no loss of exertion (nāsti vīryaparihāṇiḥ.

9. He has no loss of mindfulness (nāsti smṛtiparihāṇiḥ).

10. He has no loss of wisdom (nāsti prajñāparihāṇiḥ).

11. He has no loss of liberation (nāsti vimuktiparihāṇiḥ).

12. He has no loss of the knowledge and vision of deliverance (nāsti vimuktijñmanadarśanapariāṇiḥ).

13. Every bodily action of the Tathāgata is preceded by knowledge and accompanies knowledge (sarvaṃ tathātagatasya kāyakarma jñānapūrvaṃgamaṃ jñānānuparivarti).

14. Every vocal action is preceded by knowledge and accompanies knowledge (sarvaṃ vākkarma jñānapūrvaṃgamaṃ jñānānuparivarti).

15. Every mental action is preceded by knowledge and accompanies knowledge (sarvaṃ manaskarma jñānapūrvaṃgamaṃ jñānānuparivarti).

16. He has non-attached and unobstructed knowledge about past time (atīte ’dhvany asaṅgam apratihataṃ jñmanaṃ darśanam).

17. He has non-attached and unobstructed knowledge about future time (anāgate ’dhvany asaṅgam apratihataṃ jñānaṃ darśanam). [Page 511]

18. He has non-attached and unobstructed knowledge about the present time (pratyutpanne ’dhvany asaṅgam apratihataṃ jñānaṃ darśanam).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 1:46 AM
Title: Re: Gems, crystals and semi-precious gemstones in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:
pemachophel said:
I do completely agree with Loppon that baidurya is star sapphire and not lapis. That being said, as someone who worked for 30 years as a Chinese to English translator, it's my experience that, once a wrong translation takes hold in either a profession or the general public, it's extremely difficult (if not downright impossible) to root that error out. I expect the rank and file will continue identifying baidurya as lapis lazuli.

Kunzang said:
Or sometimes the "correction" goes wrong as is the case with the Medicine Buddha sadhana in our sangha:  they got rid of lapis lazuli, but changed it to sapphire instead of star sapphire.

Malcolm wrote:
That's ok.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 1:46 AM
Title: Re: Physiological suffering and implications for Buddhist path?
Content:
nichiren-123 said:
I've been thinking about this for a while: if suffering is related to physiological structures in the brain then how can suffering end without the destruction of these components?
How does the acknowledgement of these structures effect the solution for the end of suffering?
My immediate thought is that suffering cannot be 'destroyed' but must somehow be 'accepted' in a way that reduces or effaces the original suffering.
What are your thoughts?

Malcolm wrote:
Pain is not suffering.

Seeker12 said:
How exactly would you define suffering? Or, alternatively, dukkha? Would it be reasonable to simply say that 'suffering' is simply that which is unwanted and leave it at that?

If defined as such, then 'pain' may or may not be suffering, depending on one's circumstances. To a BDSM lover, pain might be celebrated, but for that BDSM lover a lack of pain may be potentially 'suffering' if one yearned for it.


Malcolm wrote:
In the Pali Canon, the Buddha experiences pain, but of course he does not suffer.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 1:44 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
I asked this once before, but there was no consensus at the time.

Is the Sanskrit definitively older than Ven Kumarajiva's Chinese?

Malcolm wrote:
The oldest manuscript was found in Gilgit. That said, it was such a popular sūtra in India that I see no reason that the edited manuscript we have today is not essentially same text that was before Kumarajiva.

Coëmgenu said:
Also, is there an Indian commentary extant substantiating these 18 Buddhadharmas?

Malcolm wrote:
Of course there are. Many. For example, Vasubandhu's commentary on the Mahāyānasūtrālaṃkāra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 1:28 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
T 263 is the older Ven Dharmarakṣa translation.

In the same place @ [0117b01], it has:

如吾所歎，　所有土地，　則為佛身，　於彼經行。　佛聖於中，　如坐座上，　覺了所在，　遊居之處。」

The same 佛身 / Buddhakāya, "body of a Buddha" statement.

Malcolm wrote:
The Sanskrit clearly reads buddhadharmāṇa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 1:24 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Queequeg said:
Citation for the 18 qualities please.

Malcolm wrote:
The Saddharmapundarika mentions them once in the Devadatta chapter:
Through the virtuous friendship of Devadatta I was able to become endowed with the six perfections, benevolence, compassion, sympathetic joy, generosity, the thirty-two marks, the eighty excellent characteristics, reddish-gold skin, the ten powers, the four kinds of fearlessness, the four methods of gaining trust, the eighteen excellent qualities, the transcendent powers, and the power of the path. It is all due to the good and virtuous friendship of Devadatta that I attained complete enlightenment and extensively saved innumerable sentient beings.
aṣṭādaśāveṇikabuddhadharmā Here the term is avenika, literally, "unbraided."

But in any case, they are mentioned in virtually every major Mahāyāna Sūtra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 21st, 2017 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
katha buddhadharmāṇa bhaveyu lābhinaḥ|

and that by all means they attain the buddhadharmas.

Queequeg said:
That last line in Chinese is

速成就佛身

The translation I quoted is the BDK version which has it's points but also it's shortcomings. Not my favorite, but it's readily available online. I've never like their translation of that line because it does depart significantly from the Chinese.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not even close to the original.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 11:36 PM
Title: Re: Physiological suffering and implications for Buddhist path?
Content:
nichiren-123 said:
I've been thinking about this for a while: if suffering is related to physiological structures in the brain then how can suffering end without the destruction of these components?
How does the acknowledgement of these structures effect the solution for the end of suffering?
My immediate thought is that suffering cannot be 'destroyed' but must somehow be 'accepted' in a way that reduces or effaces the original suffering.
What are your thoughts?

Malcolm wrote:
Pain is not suffering.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 11:31 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:



kirtu said:
A frankly ridiculous statement.

The Belgian exploitation of the Congo alone is estimated to be between 1-15 M (with the 15M figure used quite a bit but it is a guess - a conservative estimate would be 10M).

Malcolm wrote:
That barely fits into the twentieth century, and was in its day a huge scandal, and Leopold was forced to give up control of the Congo to the Belgian Government —— so it does not really count in the way in which you imagine. It was the inspiration for Apocalypse Now.

Coëmgenu said:
For the sake of consummate pedantry, was it not the inspiration for Heart of Darkness before it was the inspiration for Apocalypse Now?

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 11:30 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
So your report is based an idealisation of the definition of capitalism to the point where no existing system can be called capitalism, thus exonerating capitalism of all blame?

If I remember correctly I gave at least five valid examples which you ignored.

Malcolm wrote:
All I am really pointing out is that liberal democracies tend towards directly murdering less people than authoritarian regimes, whether right wing or left. The economic system of all liberal democracies is capitalism, whether they are liberal market economies, like the UK, US, Canada, NZ and Australia, or coordinated market economies like Germany, Sweden, Japan, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 10:48 PM
Title: Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 10:47 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


treehuggingoctopus said:
No Malcolm, it really is not. Genuine social ownership and democratic control of the means of production in Venezuela?

Malcolm wrote:
Look, the Maduro people claim they are socialists. They, like Chavez, claim that they are preserving surpluses from oil revenue for the people. This is completely consistent with Marxian Socialist ethics.

treehuggingoctopus said:
It is a mixture of a typical neoliberal state and what Chomsky aptly calls a "state capitalist economy." No worker-controlled means of production, no worker-controlled government and no democratic control of anything.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, which is typical of the "dictatorship of the proletariat." Recall, Trotsky wanted the world turned into a concentration camp.

treehuggingoctopus said:
There are private businesses and big corporations there, and they are doing fine.

Malcolm wrote:
No one is doing fine in Venezuala. Just ask Elias Caprilles.

Anyway, your "Socialism" is a fantasy. It never has happened anywhere, can't happen anywhere (as more than one failed centrally planned economy has demonstrated) and moreover, the so called "means of production," which are a product of Capitalism, are themselves toxic by nature.

Further, Communists were and are just as bloody minded as Fascists, operating out class bias and resentments as opposed to racial/national bias and resentments. The shear number of innocent people murdered by Communists and Fascists in the 20th century alone should make everyone as equally nervous about Marxist Socialism as they are about Fascism. Frankly, no Capitalist country has ever come close to the bloodshed inflicted on the world by Communists and Fascists, not in your wildest dreams.

treehuggingoctopus said:
You are mixing categories, Malcolm.

Communism is not socialism, and communists are not socialists. The very first victims of the (Stalinist) communists after they took control of what is now called the post-Soviet bloc were socialists, and in many countries socialists were the backbone of the anti-communist resistance before the USSR collapsed.

The dictatorship of the proletariat is a commie thing. Marxist socialists stopped liking it years ago, non-Marxist ones never did.

Malcolm wrote:
Really? Than why does Saral Sarkar insist that it will be necessary in his Ecosocialism book?


treehuggingoctopus said:
The socialism I speak of can certainly happen

Malcolm wrote:
Centrally planned economies don't work, and neither do unregulated markets.

treehuggingoctopus said:
, and btw "your" Bookchinian libertarian municipalism is a variation on it.

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe.

treehuggingoctopus said:
I am seriously wondering, however, whether the capitalist colonial oppression was less bloody than the reign of the communists.

Malcolm wrote:
depends on what you mean by capitalist colonial oppression. If you define the Spanish crown as "capitalist colonialists" very likely. I don't, however.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 10:21 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan Astrology
Content:
Boomerang said:
I received a horoscope from http://www.men-tsee-khang-exports.org. I am happy with the horoscope itself, but I suspect that their website is insecure. If you want to purchase something through the website, I recommend that you use a browser addon like privacy ( https://privacy.com/ ) instead of giving them your real credit card information.


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, in response to Western and Indian demand, Tibetans have begun to do charts, but it is not a traditional thing for Tibetans to do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 10:18 PM
Title: Re: Non-conceptual thoughts ... ?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Well, first of all, I don't think there are any awakened Advaitans, or Taoists, or Christians, or Muslims, or shamans, etc.

weitsicht said:
Malcolm, maybe it's a too far shot to ask about the Qualities of an enlightened Person an how someone else can see.

But how sure are you about theists or pagans being incapable to attain enlightenment.

I am just thinking of Rumi, Meister Eckhart, Heraclitus, ...

Malcolm wrote:
I am sure about the Buddha's Lion's Roar:

In whatsoever Dhamma and Discipline, Subhadda, there is not found the Noble Eightfold Path, neither is there found a true ascetic of the first, second, third, or fourth degree of saintliness. But in whatsoever Dhamma and Discipline there is found the Noble Eightfold Path, there is found a true ascetic of the first, second, third, and fourth degrees of saintliness.[54] Now in this Dhamma and Discipline, Subhadda, is found the Noble Eightfold Path; and in it alone are also found true ascetics of the first, second, third, and fourth degrees of saintliness. Devoid of true ascetics are the systems of other teachers.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.16.1-6.vaji.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 7:10 AM
Title: Re: Historicity of Shakyamuni Buddha
Content:



KeithA said:
Some of my best work, for sure.

I guess since I left a post, I am obligated to contribute something.

In a Zen Center I visit from time to time, there is a lineage chart tracing the founder of the tradition I practice in back to Shakyamuni Buddha. It is very easy for a student of history to poke that chart full of holes.

Ultimately, that is no concern of mine. I know for sure that something has been passed along. And I am forever grateful.

_/|\_


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Astrology
Content:
fckw said:
I don't have any experience with Tibetan astrology, and close to none with Indian one. But I am regularly using Western astrology as a source of understanding the current qualities of my mind. Tantric practice can be combined very well with astrology, certain transits are related in their quality to certain deities. For example, an important transit of Venus might go well with deities that are linked to the arts. This also is true for energy practices. During certain transits, especially those related to lunar nodes (which are linked in Indian astrology also with the kundalini energy), energy practice goes nearly by itself. In fact, there is a lot left for research between tantra and astrology, as there are only relatively few practitioners who are deeply knowledgeable and skilled in both systems. Also, conjunctions of planets with certain fixed stars or asteroids in the radix often are a good indicator to find out about special powers, or extraordinary personalities.

I don't know exactly how this works in a monastic setting, I believe basics of astrology is part of a typical Geshe training, but I don't know how many Geshes study the subject more in-depth. Malcolm would probably know more about this than I do.

Malcolm wrote:
There is nothing like this in Tibetan calculation, in general they do not charts -- they have technique, but it never caught in in Tibet.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 6:43 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It goes to the question whether buddhas have conventional perceptions or not. Do buddhas perceive sentient beings? Do buddhas even have perception along any lines we can conceive?

Queequeg said:
That is a good question.

The closing lines of the Lotus Sutra Life Span Chapter suggests an answer:
Always aware of which sentient beings
Practice the path and which do not,
I teach the Dharma in various ways,
According to their ability to be saved.
I am always thinking:
By what means can I cause sentient beings to be able to
Enter the highest path
And quickly attain the Dharma?
Can we accurately conceive this thought? The Buddha tells us this, but can we truly understand the import of these words?

The Life Span Chapter opens with the Buddha's exhortation:
“O sons of a virtuous family! You should believe the true words of the Tathāgata.”

Malcolm wrote:
There is a real problem with this translation you are referencing, it is just not accurate. I cannot evaluate the Chinese, but the passage you cite actually says:

cariṃ cariṃ jāniya nityakālaṃ 
vadāmi sattvāna tathā tathāham| 
kathaṃ nu bodhāvupanāmayeyaṃ 
katha buddhadharmāṇa bhaveyu lābhinaḥ|

Always knowing their practices,
I likewise teach sentient beings
in order to place them by all means in awakening,
and that by all means they attain the buddhadharmas.

Here, buddhadharmas refers to the 18 unshared qualities, among others, that buddhas uniquely possess. It is a little hard therefore to accept imperatives such as:

kulaputrāḥ, abhiśraddadhadhvaṃ tathāgatasya bhūtāṃ vācaṃ vyāharataḥ

Sons of a good family, have faith and confidence in my words, the Tathāgata!

Not because what the Tathāgata says is false, but because so many translations of his words are blatantly flawed.

Now to the real question: What does a buddha know, and when did he know it?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 2:33 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Astrology
Content:
Indrajala said:
Since Kālacakra is part of Tibetan Buddhism, it is worth nothing that the Kālacakra includes a component of scientific astronomy, a bit of astrology and use of the tropical zodiac (in contrast to the normal sidereal zodiac of Indian astrology). I'm uncertain the extent to which modern practitioners pay attention to astrological concerns, but nevertheless it is part of the scriptures.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, but in reality, Kālacakra is used primarily for making calendars.

For every day practical use, elemental calculation is the preferred system.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Furthermore, it is said that because the of the cause of Buddhahood, the releasing of afflictions, that the Buddha is able to relate to ordinary beings.[/quote]

This opens up a can of buddhological worms.
[/quote]

Maybe this focuses the question, then. Can you elaborate?
[/quote]

It goes to the question whether buddhas have conventional perceptions or not. Do buddhas perceive sentient beings? Do buddhas even have perception along any lines we can conceive?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:


liuzg150181 said:
I infer that means in order of preference,Zhentong<Gelug Prasanga<"Sakya" Prasanga?
Also what constitute wrong view(s)?

Malcolm wrote:
As long as one understands that all phenomena are lack svabhāva, it does not matter much how you argue it.

liuzg150181 said:
Uh,there is no point to intensive sutra study?

Malcolm wrote:
It really depends on your time and interest.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 1:46 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
DGA said:
Are you saying that plants, animals, and some objects are Enlightened?

By Enlightened, do you mean Buddha?

Queequeg said:
I don't know what Illaraza would say, but this is Tiantai doctrine, especially after Zhanran.

Malcolm wrote:
The insentient buddhanature trope. Interesting article on the development of this idea in Tien tai here:

http://www.buddhism.org/?p=988


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 12:37 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
I've been reviewing this idea that the Buddha has afflictions and where it comes from. First, I am almost certain that the assertion that the Buddha is subject to afflictions is wrong, though a somewhat common error.

Malcolm wrote:
I am certain of this...please join me in certitude.

Queequeg said:
It is said Buddhas attained enlightenment after a course of long practice as a Bodhisattva. Well, we are told that the Buddha actually started his long path to Buddhahood deep in hell. According to the Lotus Sutra, all of it was Bodhisattva practice. I digress.

Malcolm wrote:
Check, check, check —— all normative Mahāyāna everyone accepts.

Queequeg said:
Buddhahood is the fruit of that long practice. That long practice is the cause of Buddhahood. The Cause and Fruit are inseparable. Without the cause of Buddhahood, no Buddhahood. Without Buddhahood, no cause of Buddhahood. The cause is of course the releasing from the afflictions, and Buddhahood, the fruit, is the realized release from afflictions. Without the afflictions, no release. What is somewhat surprising is that without release of afflictions, no afflictions.

Malcolm wrote:
All perfectly consistent with Mahāyāna analysis of the relation between cause and result. However, what is missing here is that the inseparability of causes and results lay in the fact that causes and results are neither the same nor different from a Madhyamaka perspective.

Queequeg said:
Furthermore, it is said that because the of the cause of Buddhahood, the releasing of afflictions, that the Buddha is able to relate to ordinary beings.

Malcolm wrote:
This opens up a can of buddhological worms.

Queequeg said:
If the Buddha had not released his afflictions in the past, then there would be nothing for him to teach - no career as a deluded being to point to and hold up as his tracks and thereby give encouragement and instruction to beings.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a standard Mahāyāna idea, certainly.

Queequeg said:
This is the relative sublime teaching, alternatively called, upaya, or expedient means - the example of the man who became Buddha.

This of course is not the whole story. The Buddha also explains that his Bodhisattva career culminating in his awakening at Gaya is all expedient and that his real awakening occurred in the inconceivable past... Gautama is just the latest Matryoshka Buddha who appeared here in Saha, with no original one, per se, because there is always another Primordial Buddha in the distant past, and there will be infinite further Buddhas, each a primordial Buddha for others long down the line. Thus we preserve cause and effect, while also collapsing it and revealing the Absolute Sublime and the immediate cause and effect of Buddhahood.

Malcolm wrote:
This is all standard Mahāyāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 12:22 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:


liuzg150181 said:
I see,and I think I had read somewhere that Zhentong Madhayamaka is nono for Dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is fine as well. Madhyamaka is all on the level of intellectual analysis. However, according to Longchenpa and Jigme Lingpa, Prasanga is the Madhyamaka vierw most compatible with Dzogchen in general, and ChNN cites Jigme Lingpa to that effect.

liuzg150181 said:
I infer that means in order of preference,Zhentong<Gelug Prasanga<"Sakya" Prasanga?
Also what constitute wrong view(s)?

Malcolm wrote:
As long as one understands that all phenomena are lack svabhāva, it does not matter much how you argue it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 12:21 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Same thing happens in the self-organised communities in Greece.  When the police cannot crush the movements, they send in the drug dealers.  There have been violent clashes between drug dealers and self-organised citizens as they try to force the dealers out of their neighborhoods.


Malcolm wrote:
And here we see how governments inevitably arise out of small defense associations, as described by the Buddha in the Mahasammata Sutta, and much much later, by Robert Nozik in Anarchy, State, and Utopia.

Brunelleschi said:
Interesting stuff. Do you have any quotes from the Sutta?


Malcolm wrote:
My error, it is the Aggañña Sutta which recounts the election of Mahāsammata as King. See page 413 in the Long Discourses of the Buddha, Walsh.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 20th, 2017 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Gems, crystals and semi-precious gemstones in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:


liuzg150181 said:
By bodhiseed mala is it referring to only Phoenix eye,or does it include others such as those made from Daemonorops margaritae ?

Malcolm wrote:
They come from a tree that grows in Nepal that has yet to be identified scientifically.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 11:52 PM
Title: Re: Historicity of Shakyamuni Buddha
Content:
KiwiNFLFan said:
By chance, I came across a website yesterday that questioned the historical existence of Shakyamuni Buddha. Does anyone know any good resources to prove that the Buddha was indeed a historical person?

Indrajala said:
The crux of the problem is that we do not possess any scriptural or archaeological evidence from the purported time of the Buddha.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a problem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 11:31 PM
Title: Re: Tibetan Astrology
Content:
tiagolps said:
What are your experiences with Tibetan astrology? I'm really curious how effective it has been in people's lives.

Malcolm wrote:
Tibetan astrology really has nothing to do with astrology as we understand it. The term for it in Tibetan is jungtsi ('byung rtsis), which means literally, calculation of the elements, or nagtsi (nag rstis), i.e. the calculation of Duhar Nagpo, the Chinese master whom legend holds introduced elemental calculation to Tibet during the imperial period, which was then hidden as a terma and revealed in the 11th century.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 10:10 PM
Title: Re: Historicity of Shakyamuni Buddha
Content:
KiwiNFLFan said:
By chance, I came across a website yesterday that questioned the historical existence of Shakyamuni Buddha. Does anyone know any good resources to prove that the Buddha was indeed a historical person?

Malcolm wrote:
You should ignore Jayaraver's ravings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
Same thing happens in the self-organised communities in Greece.  When the police cannot crush the movements, they send in the drug dealers.  There have been violent clashes between drug dealers and self-organised citizens as they try to force the dealers out of their neighborhoods.


Malcolm wrote:
And here we see how governments inevitably arise out of small defense associations, as described by the Buddha in the Mahasammata Sutta, and much much later, by Robert Nozik in Anarchy, State, and Utopia.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 10:00 PM
Title: Re: Gems, crystals and semi-precious gemstones in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:


pemachophel said:
Sorry, I completely disagree with Loppon Namdrol on the benefits of different types of malas for different practices. But then I'm a student of a ngakpa who urged His students to use this or that mala for certain (not all) practices. For me, the ten-drel is quite obvious.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no denying that different materials are described as being useful for different actions, or even deities.

However, there is also no denying that a bodhiseed mala covers all four actions and is suitable for all deities, bar none.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 9:24 AM
Title: Re: Historicity of Shakyamuni Buddha
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: Gems, crystals and semi-precious gemstones in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:


Fortyeightvows said:
Really? In so many english books you find it written like lapis lazuli...

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but they are all wrong. The actual Tibetan name for lapis lazuli is mu men.

Mantrik said:
I remember you wrote this quite a few years ago, yet the 'vaidurya/lapis' link persists in many places.
Leaving aside whether it is useful, those buying a lapis mala will be a bit shocked (and impoverished) if they feel they now have to replace it with one made of sapphire beads.

Malcolm wrote:
Just use bodhiseed malas. All the rest of this obsession with malas is bunk.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 5:31 AM
Title: Re: Gems, crystals and semi-precious gemstones in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:
Fortyeightvows said:
Right now I can tell you the lapis lazuli for Medicine Buddha is completely wrong. The gem in question is actually star sapphire
Really? In so many english books you find it written like lapis lazuli...

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but they are all wrong. The actual Tibetan name for lapis lazuli is mu men. It's chemical composition is (Na,Ca)₈Al₆Si₆O₂₄ (S,SO)

Blue sapphire is called baidurya sngon po in Tbetan, and its chemical composition is  Al2O3.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:


Thomas Amundsen said:
Loppon, I hope you don't mind me asking your personal opinion here. Do you, as a non-sectarian Dzogchen practitioner/translator/etc., consider the Guhyagarbha Tantra to be as important as the Nyingmapas do?

Malcolm wrote:
One should have a reasonably good understanding of Guhyagarbha, especially chapter 13.

Mantrik said:
Is this worth obtaining or is there a better analysis? :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1559393270/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Malcolm wrote:
This is fine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 3:43 AM
Title: Re: Gems, crystals and semi-precious gemstones in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:
Vasana said:
Does anyone have any good resources for learning about the roles, beliefs and uses of gems and crystals in T.B?

They seem quite prevaialnt but I only ever come across little snippets of information indirectly. E.G - Ratna Family, Lapiz Lazuli medicine Buddha, all of the turquoise and Jade we see as jewellery and ornamentation.

Intetested in Medical uses
Esoteric uses
Symbolic significance
Mythology and folklore
inherited beliefs from India, china and pre-Buddhist Tibet etc
I remember seeing a website years ago about the properties of malas made from different substances and what their effect was. I can't remember if it was an inauthentic source or info extracted from a Guru Rinpoche text. Anyone remember it? Know of other similar texts?


Malcolm wrote:
Right now I can tell you the lapis lazuli for Medicine Buddha is completely wrong. The gem in question is actually star sapphire.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 3:33 AM
Title: Re: Bumpa
Content:


conebeckham said:
The vajra with the 5 colored thread, held by the loppon usually during the Vase Generation practice......the other end of the thread is affixed to another vajra which sits on the Bumpa.......

Malcolm wrote:
Or it can simply be tied to the vase. It is not actually necessary, but is used as a visualization support.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 3:32 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:


Thomas Amundsen said:
Loppon, I hope you don't mind me asking your personal opinion here. Do you, as a non-sectarian Dzogchen practitioner/translator/etc., consider the Guhyagarbha Tantra to be as important as the Nyingmapas do?

Malcolm wrote:
One should have a reasonably good understanding of Guhyagarbha, especially chapter 13.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
For one, I'm not quite sure where Illaraza is going with this, but the reference to "not revealing the truth in 40 years" specifically has to do with the Buddha's real life span.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and since it was such a complete non sequitur...


Queequeg said:
As for a Buddha with afflictions - maybe I've forgotten or am not aware of something.

Malcolm wrote:
This is the present subject of inquiry.


Queequeg said:
The significance of this teaching as I understand has to do with universal Buddhanature, particularly with the picture presented in the Lotus Sutra that we are all treading the path to Buddhahood, whether we are Devadatta who caused the Buddha to bleed, or Maitreya sitting in Tushita waiting for his time to appear.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is very standard Mahāyāna accepted and followed by all Buddhists in all Mahāyāna countries. It is also not a doctrine unique to the Lotus Sūtra.

Queequeg said:
In all cases, the Buddha appears perfectly in response to our ignorance.

Malcolm wrote:
Again, this is noncontroversial. If there were no sentient beings, there would be no need for buddhas to appear.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: Bumpa
Content:




Lingpupa said:
True, no doubt, for most people, but you could be doing a practice with vase generation, when you should really have one. But by the time you get to that stage, you would probably have learnt what you need to know about it.

Malcolm wrote:
If you are doing practices that involve vase generation, you basically are a lama.

conebeckham said:
Whether one is "allowed" to do Dak Zhuk, but not empower others, would be a more appropriate dividing line between "lamas" and Sadhakas, I think.

Malcolm wrote:
Anyone who has completed the necessary retreats to be able to do self-empowerment on their own is basically a lama.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 2:20 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
It is a critique of the assertion that the Buddha is separate from the threefold world.

Malcolm wrote:
Where did I ever assert such a thing? Why produce a polemic against a point I am not raising?

I said buddhas by definition are free of affliction.

In response, you wrote a few thing lines, became indignant that I did not understand the point of your statements since  a) they did not appear to be relevant to the question and b) were not themselves particularly deep.

You topped that off with a nice sprinkle of ad homs, while ignoring the fact that Illarazza flat out stated that buddhas have afflictions.

Queequeg said:
LOL. Its not always about you.

I was giving background of this teaching - nothing to do directly with anything you have written in this thread.

Malcolm wrote:
When one sees a post written in response to something one says, one assumes that the post is directed at oneself.

You did not present this as "background."


Queequeg said:
My interjection earlier was trying to clarify a teaching that was not being treated accurately.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I understood that. I did not think your point was remarkable.

Queequeg said:
I guess you assumed Illaraza and I were tag teaming. That was not the case.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I did not assume anything of the sort. Time for you to take a break from moderating. You are losing your cool.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 2:10 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
It is a critique of the assertion that the Buddha is separate from the threefold world.

Malcolm wrote:
Where did I ever assert such a thing? Why produce a polemic against a point I am not raising?

I said buddhas by definition are free of affliction.

In response, you wrote a few thing lines, became indignant that I did not understand the point of your statements since  a) they did not appear to be relevant to the question and b) were not themselves particularly deep.

You topped that off with a nice sprinkle of ad homs, while ignoring the fact that Illarazza flat out stated that buddhas have afflictions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 1:33 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
Zhiyi was not teaching some masturbatory intellectualism as you suggest.


Malcolm wrote:
I never suggested this anywhere.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 1:13 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
But, you're also not comprehending what I wrote.

Malcolm wrote:
Then it is up to you to explain your point in a form which is comprehensible. In other words, if you are not asserting buddhas possess afflictions, just what are you attempting to explain? If you are trying to explain for example, that liberation and bondage are relative concepts which are mutually dependent, that is quite trivial.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 1:05 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
The point you seem to think you make was addressed before you made it.

Malcolm wrote:
How so? The discussion here is whether buddhas can possess afflictions in any form at all.

Queequeg said:
I explained it. You dismissed it. What else is there?

Malcolm wrote:
You offered an assertion, not a proof. A proof involves a citation, a reasoning, and a conclusion.

Apparently you think (unreasonably) that buddhas can possess affliction. This is an extremely strange point of view and is really outside of normative Buddhist discourse.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 12:33 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
The point you seem to think you make was addressed before you made it.

Malcolm wrote:
How so? The discussion here is whether buddhas can possess afflictions in any form at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 19th, 2017 at 12:17 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Queequeg said:
Sigh.

Congratulations. You're the winner!

Malcolm wrote:
Taken on the face of it, your statement "Buddha includes the afflictions" cannot be taken literally. You're basically making the argument that a buddha defines afflictions through exclusion.

Queequeg said:
Another sigh.


Malcolm wrote:
Great argument and exposition of your point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 10:52 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Coëmgenu said:
The fire is evil/affliction. The above is how Ven Zhiyi says the Buddha "is" evil/afflicted/the devil. It is not a straightforward equivalency like some people have been arguing.

Malcolm wrote:
I understand that the metaphor. There is no mention of buddhas possessing afflictions in that passage. There is only mention of ordinary beings.



Coëmgenu said:
The way that some people have been arguing, they would say that:

"like inside bamboo there being the nature of fire. [It is] the object of fire, [...] it exists but [and does] burn [despite paradoxically not burning?] " <--- this is the interpretation that some here have been arguing.


Malcolm wrote:
This is what it says:

Turning over evils, there is virtue supporting them, like inside bamboo there being the nature of fire. It is not yet the object of fire, which is why it exists but does not burn. When meeting with conditions the phenomenon comes to exist, and then it can burn things.

It does not reflect the interpretation you are sharing.

For example, there is a passage where Garab Dorje asks, "How will the bonfire of pristine consciousness (jñāna) burn without the fuel of afflictions?" But this does not mean a buddha possesses afflictions. In a buddha, even the fire of pristine consciousness has gone out since there is nothing further for a buddha to purify, to know or to do with respect to a path and all their actions are spontaneous like the rewards that come from possessing a wishful fulfilling gem.

Is this ambiguous interpretation you give coming from the Ziporyn fellow's books?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: nagarjuna basics?
Content:
nichiren-123 said:
So I was hoping for a quick and dirty description of what nagarjuna taught?

Malcolm wrote:
Nāgārjuna is the first Mahāyāna author. It is recorded that he recovered the Perfection of Wisdom Sūtras from the Nāgā realm, where they had been stashed until time was ripe for their promulgation in India.

Kunzang said:
Where is this history recorded?

Malcolm wrote:
You can look at Buton's history of Dharma, pretty sure it is there. It is one of the more widespread legends of Nāgārjuna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 10:32 PM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:



Tolya M said:
NNR is not about buddhist teaching.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure he is, it is all he teaches. He generally begins with the 4NT, the five indriyas, etc. Please revise your comment.

Tolya M said:
I don't think so. Buddha teaching was not created by "mistaken dualistic mind of human beings". It is not "the real root of our suffering and of all our conflicts".

Malcolm wrote:
You are like a man with a fever who sees hairs in the sky where none exist.

ChNN is not including Buddhadharma within his notion of "philosophy created by the mistaken minds of human beings."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 10:29 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
All I can say, is, read it one more time, the part I am commenting on is in the beginning, before the talk of dharmakāya & saṃsāra.

like inside bamboo there being the nature of fire. It is not yet the object of fire, which is why it exists but does not burn

The above is relevant to how evil/affliction-in-Buddha is treated in Tiāntāi it seems.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't see it. It is an axiomatic definition that buddhas are free from all traces and all obscurations. There are no conditions under which a buddha can experience anger, for example. This citation does not support your idea.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 10:07 PM
Title: Re: nagarjuna basics?
Content:
Indrajala said:
I recommend that you read the Abhidharmakośa-bhāṣya before Nāgārjuna, for the simple reason that the categories and concepts that Nāgārjuna addresses in his work are based on an earlier Buddhist framework that is quite elegantly and thoroughly explained in the Abhidharmakośa-bhāṣya.

Malcolm wrote:
Seconded.

Also, Aryadeva's 400 is also more approachable than MMK.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
The doctrine that the Buddha has afflictions is a little misleading.

Malcolm wrote:
Taken literally, it is a ridiculous fallacy.

Queequeg said:
The Buddha is discernible to us only as the enlightening function. The Buddha appears only in response to afflictions. The Buddha is the perfect liberation of afflictions and nothing more can actually be said of the Buddha without acknowledging that is just more upaya in response to our need to conceptualize the Buddha. We therefore say the Buddha is the complement of afflictions and can't be distinguished from afflictions. Further, if there are afflictions then there is Buddha response. As such, Buddha is said to be a part of the affliction-liberation complex. When this complex is defined in terms of Buddha, we say the Buddha includes the afflictions. When defined in terms of deluded being, we say the deluded being includes Buddha.

Malcolm wrote:
This is very intellectual. It is just a reiteration of the MMK's nondifferentiation of samara and nirvana.

Queequeg said:
Sigh.

Congratulations. You're the winner!

Malcolm wrote:
Taken on the face of it, your statement "Buddha includes the afflictions" cannot be taken literally. You're basically making the argument that a buddha defines afflictions through exclusion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 10:04 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
So are the latencies of Ven Zhiyi, such as the latent fire "inside" of bamboo at all times, is this fire still considered "fire" despite not manifesting, and functionally not existing for all intensive purposes until it is brought out? Are these latencies understood as manifestations?

According to Ven Zhiyi evil dwells in the Buddha like the latent fire inside of a stalk of bamboo, if the fire is caused to "come out" of the bamboo, then the causes and conditions for fire have come together.

A fully awakened Buddha has only latencies, no manifestations. Like a stalk of bamboo whose internal fires are never "brought out".

How does this interact with the "normal" Nichiren view presented earlier?

To contextualize my earlier quotation, which is one of my "pet" quotations that I post frequently, I will admit:

Furthermore, a single moment of thought in the mind of a common being possesses the ten realms. They completely possess the nature and characteristics of evil karma, yet the nature and characteristics of evil are the nature and characteristics of virtue. It is due to evil that there is virtue. Apart from evil there is no virtue. Turning over evils, there is virtue supporting them, like inside bamboo there being the nature of fire. It is not yet the object of fire, which is why it exists but does not burn. When meeting with conditions the phenomenon comes to exist, and then it can burn things. Evil as the nature of virtue is not yet an existent phenomenon. When it meets with conditions it become an existent phenomenon, and then there can be a turn to evil. It is like bamboo. Fire is emitted and returns, burning the bamboo. In evil there is virtue. When virtue comes to exist it returns, destroying the evil. This is why that which are the nature and characteristics of evil are the nature and characteristics of virtue. A single moment of thought of an ordinary being always possesses the consciousnesses, names and forms of the ten realms. The nature and characteristics of the path of suffering – they misunderstand this path of suffering, and saṃsāra remains expansive. This is misunderstanding the dharmakāya as the path of suffering. There is no separate dharmakāya apart from the path of suffering, like mistaking south as north, there is no separate south. If one realizes saṃsāra, then it is the dharmakāya. Thus it is said the nature and characteristics of the path of suffering are the nature and characteristics of the dharmakāya.

(Ven Zhìyǐ, 法华玄义 [The Dharma Flower's Profound Meaning], CBETA, T 33 no 1716)

Malcolm wrote:
What the above says pretty clearly is that in a single moment of the mind of a sentient being there are "ten realms," six lokas plus four kinds of āryan beings. It does not say that a buddha possesses traces or latencies. This is a passage illustrating the relative nature of conceptual categories we use to describe various things, i.e., long and short, light and dark, samsara and nirvana, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 9:57 PM
Title: Re: Bumpa
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You don't need a Bumpa for your home shrine, unless a lama is coming to bless your house.


Lingpupa said:
True, no doubt, for most people, but you could be doing a practice with vase generation, when you should really have one. But by the time you get to that stage, you would probably have learnt what you need to know about it.

Malcolm wrote:
If you are doing practices that involve vase generation, you basically are a lama.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 9:53 PM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:


liuzg150181 said:
I presume you meant "freedom from four extreme" Sakya Madhyamaka, but what abt Gelug Madhyamaka?

Malcolm wrote:
It’s just fine. Debating with Gelugpas is just sport, there is nothing wrong Tsongkhapa’s Madhyamaka, though some of his explanations suffer from prolixity.

liuzg150181 said:
I see,and I think I had read somewhere that Zhentong Madhayamaka is nono for Dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is fine as well. Madhyamaka is all on the level of intellectual analysis. However, according to Longchenpa and Jigme Lingpa, Prasanga is the Madhyamaka vierw most compatible with Dzogchen in general, and ChNN cites Jigme Lingpa to that effect.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 10:06 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
MAdhyamaka Prasanga and Dzogchen are very compatible, actually.

liuzg150181 said:
I presume you meant "freedom from four extreme" Sakya Madhyamaka, but what abt Gelug Madhyamaka?

Malcolm wrote:
It’s just fine. Debating with Gelugpas is just sport, there is nothing wrong Tsongkhapa’s Madhyamaka, though some of his explanations suffer from prolixity.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 9:40 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:
TharpaChodron said:
I'm just going to put this out there as a burning question that I have.  Is there an all encompassing compendium of literature for a Nyingma practitioner? I know about those 2 books of volumes of Nyingma texts, but do they leave a lot out? I've got the important singular text
here and there, like WOMPT and Cascading Waterfalls, but as for original sutras in English, I'm woefully
empty handed.

Malcolm wrote:
The Guhyagarbha is the basic scripture of the Nyingma School.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 7:56 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:



Mantrik said:
I wonder if it is better never to have encountered, for example, Madhyamaka Prasangika in the first place rather than subsequently needing to negate it.

Malcolm wrote:
MAdhyamaka Prasanga and Dzogchen are very compatible, actually.


Mantrik said:
I am a fan of explaining concepts as is done in Precious Vase but can happily do without thousands of words of commentarial explanation, elaboration etc which delights intellectuals but may not actually advance practice.

I guess Dzogchen is mostly encountered, though, after other studies, and so there is a need to understand what limitations we live with in order to abandon them.

Malcolm wrote:
Mostly, we just need to careful not to import non-buddhist concepts into Dharma, or lower tenets into higher ones.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 6:31 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:



Mantrik said:
Ultimately, do all concepts impede?


Malcolm wrote:
No, some concepts help one's practice.

Mantrik said:
So I am leaning towards a continuum, where each individual has differing needs for detail and support.
I can't say if it is better for others to start with an approach which is analytical and pare it away, or begin with a very simple approach and develop understanding of concepts, or the third way, which I think is perhaps most true.....that it is an iterative process.


Malcolm wrote:
For example, many people have errors in understanding which render their take on Dzogchen to be like Vedanta, or like Samkhya, etc. If you study these things and learn to identify these views, you can identify such misconceptions in your own thinking and weed them out. This is the purpose of reviewing both nonBuddhist as well as Buddhist tenets in such books as the Precious Vase.

For example, if someone asserts the basis is just lhun grub (self-perfected, spontaneously accomplished, and so on, pick your favorite term), this is a deviation into the Samkhya view and has many faults.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:


Mantrik said:
So, am I really missing out by refusing to engage with detailed analysis of Buddhism any longer?


Malcolm wrote:
The purpose of studying is to remove concepts that block one's practice.

Mantrik said:
Ultimately, do all concepts impede?


Malcolm wrote:
No, some concepts help one's practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 5:42 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:
Mantrik said:
I gave away over 1,000 books in the last year

“All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings.

Tolya M said:
NNR is not about buddhist teaching.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure he is, it is all he teaches. He generally begins with the 4NT, the five indriyas, etc. Please revise your comment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 5:36 AM
Title: Re: Intellectualism and Dzogchen
Content:


Mantrik said:
So, am I really missing out by refusing to engage with detailed analysis of Buddhism any longer?


Malcolm wrote:
The purpose of studying is to remove concepts that block one's practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 5:28 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
illarraza said:
The Lotus Sutra teaches that this IS the Eternal Pure land. The deluded like Malcolm see Samsara as a World of suffering. Like wise they think the Buddha has eradicated afflictions. The Buddha too gets hungry and eats. Likewise the Buddha has an urge to defecate and does.

DGA said:
Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by the Eternal Pure Land?  Specifically: I'm trying to understand your perspective, but I don't see the connection between your claims on the here-and-now as the Eternal Pure Land and the need for Shakyamuni to eat and digest on one side, and your rejection of the idea that the present is also samsaric and that afflictions exist.

Coëmgenu said:
I do not claim to speak for Mark, but if I may add some unsoliscited observation.

Compare the above to the below:

The nature and characteristics of the path of suffering – they misunderstand this path of suffering, and saṃsāra remains expansive. This is misunderstanding the dharmakāya as the path of suffering. There is no separate dharmakāya apart from the path of suffering, like mistaking south as north, there is no separate south. If one realizes saṃsāra, then it is the dharmakāya. Thus it is said the nature and characteristics of the path of suffering are the nature and characteristics of the dharmakāya.
(Ven Zhìyǐ, 法华玄义, CBETA, T 33 no 1716)

This passage from 法华玄义 is essentially Madhyamaka, but I think that it and/or passages like it are sometimes used to underpin interpretations like the illarraza's above.

However, it only says the dharmakāya is misaprehended as the path of suffering. That quite as radical as some go with this Madhyamaka-derived nonduality.

Malcolm wrote:
This is not terribly radical. Nāgārjuna states in the Sixty:

As for samsara and nirvana, these two do not exist;
however, thorough knowledge of samsara is nirvana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 5:25 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:



Astus said:
Asanga defines a mahayanika this way: "What is a person belonging to the Great Vehicle? It is a person who, having obtained or not the attainments, dwelling in the Dharma of the Bodhisattvas, having sharp faculties by nature, set on the liberation of all beings, having the intention of attaining unestablished Nirvana, dependent on the Canon of the Bodhisattvas, practicing the major and minor virtues by means of the cultivation of vigor, ripens beings, cultivates the pure stage of the Buddhas, receives the prediction and attains Perfect Awakening." (Abhidharmasamuccaya, tr Boin-Webb, p 200)

Malcolm wrote:
I follow the Madhyamaka tradition of bodhisattva vow, not the Yogacāra system. They are quite different. Bodhisattvacāryāvatāra is an example of the former, rather than the latter. Chandragomin's Twenty is an example of the latter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 5:12 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Grigoris said:
I think you'll find he said the complete opposite:  That a Buddha never has, or has had afflictions.

Malcolm wrote:
Umm no, read the thread again.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 12:58 AM
Title: Re: Tiantai in East Asia
Content:
Tatsuo said:
Hello everyone,

I was wondering about the state of Tiantai practices and studies in East Asia, apart from Japanese Tendai. In Korea, Cheontae ( http://www.cheontae.org/ ) seems to be quite active. They have their own university (though it is probably rather small) and they have several large temples throughout the country. How about China, Taiwan, and Vietnam? Is there a modern Tiantai school with its own practices, temples, and study institutes? Or is Tiantai mostly a subject of scholars interested in religious history and it’s texts studied only by few Chan monks? I read, that Guoqing Temple is mostly a tourist site now and not a vibrant center of Buddhism anymore.

I hope we can discuss this more or share articles about modern Tiantai.


Malcolm wrote:
Been reading the the Swanson book, it's influence on Zen is immediately evident.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 18th, 2017 at 12:46 AM
Title: Re: Bumpa
Content:
tomfelt said:
This is not for empowerment, just for my home shrine.  My lama is not in town often and then very busy with lots of supplicants, so I feel awkward asking him about this--it seems rather superficial.

Dzoki, does one obtain bumzey from one's lama, or is there a recipe?

Malcolm wrote:
You don't need a Bumpa for your home shrine, unless a lama is coming to bless your house.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 11:52 PM
Title: Re: What is convincing to you?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
When I started out studying Buddhadharma many years ago, lacking any experience, I relied on śabdaprāmaṇā primarily, valid knowledge based on scripture. As I learned more, I increasingly  began to rely more on anumāna, inference. These days, I primarily rely on pratyakṣa, direct perception.

When one relies on direct perception, there is no need for inference, what need to mention scripture? Valid knowledge derived from scripture is the weakest, it must be supported with inference (i.e. reasoning, with is inference for others). Reasoning is stronger than scripture but weaker than direct perception.

Any true expression of Buddhadharma wants to move people in the direction of direct perception. Over reliance on scripture without accompanying reasoning causes unsound Buddhist dogmatism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: Phowa at the time of death
Content:
csmorg96 said:
Do Dzogchen practitioners practice phowa as they are dying or is this practice not considered necessary for those who have genuinely discovered the nature of their minds?

Malcolm wrote:
They practice dharmakāya phowa.

pael said:
What if they have slandered Dharma, abandoned Three Jewels and
transgressed all samaya vows more than three years ago? Are they doomed? I feel I have committed all these deeds. Do I have any hope?

Malcolm wrote:
Just practice Ati guru yoga.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
The doctrine that the Buddha has afflictions is a little misleading.

Malcolm wrote:
Taken literally, it is a ridiculous fallacy.

Queequeg said:
The Buddha is discernible to us only as the enlightening function. The Buddha appears only in response to afflictions. The Buddha is the perfect liberation of afflictions and nothing more can actually be said of the Buddha without acknowledging that is just more upaya in response to our need to conceptualize the Buddha. We therefore say the Buddha is the complement of afflictions and can't be distinguished from afflictions. Further, if there are afflictions then there is Buddha response. As such, Buddha is said to be a part of the affliction-liberation complex. When this complex is defined in terms of Buddha, we say the Buddha includes the afflictions. When defined in terms of deluded being, we say the deluded being includes Buddha.

Malcolm wrote:
This is very intellectual. It is just a reiteration of the MMK's nondifferentiation of samara and nirvana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 11:29 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



illarraza said:
That's why you hate the Lotus Sutra and its votaries...Because they overturn everything you believe and were taught for the last forty years. As the Infinite Meanings Sutra teaches, "In these last forty years, I have not yet revealed the truth "(Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo). With this clear statement, he overturns his teachings of the last forty years and he overturns your pie in the sky Buddha who has eradicated all afflictions. A Buddha who has eradicated all afflictions, is an Expedient teaching, including the teachings of the first Fourteen Chapters of the Lotus Sutra. A corollary to this is that the Buddha first attained Enlightenment for the first time under the Tree when in fact He attained Enlightenment in the infinite past.

Malcolm wrote:
Mark, this is pure religious fanaticism. You poor man. You are so wrapped up in Buddhist dogma you cannot even have a real conversation with anyone.

Grigoris said:
I fail to understand why.


Malcolm wrote:
You think a Buddha has afflictions? Because, according to what Mark wrote there, the Buddha is afflicted, just like you and I. But more to the point, he is wrapped up in a Buddhist dogma so he never talks too people, only at them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga
Content:
Vasana said:
I think this is touched upon in the Supreme Source.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a difference in how appearances are treated in sems sde, klong sde, and man ngag sde. See Treasury of Dharmadhātu.

Vasana said:
Good point. I somehow forgot about that text despite having gone through it more times than the Supreme Source .Longchenpa's Treasure-Trove commentary (Baron) probably covers it.

Malcolm wrote:
It does.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Frankly, no Capitalist country has ever come close to the bloodshed inflicted on the world by Communists and Fascists, not in your wildest dreams.

kirtu said:
A frankly ridiculous statement.

The Belgian exploitation of the Congo alone is estimated to be between 1-15 M (with the 15M figure used quite a bit but it is a guess - a conservative estimate would be 10M).

Malcolm wrote:
That barely fits into the twentieth century, and was in its day a huge scandal, and Leopold was forced to give up control of the Congo to the Belgian Government —— so it does not really count in the way in which you imagine. It was the inspiration for Apocalypse Now.


kirtu said:
So we can pick and choose: Belgium, France, Spain, Portugal, the US (from Jefferson), Britain (from 1615-1820 or so), Germany (the history of the African colonies is nothing but a precursor for the Holocaust).

Malcolm wrote:
If you look, I was talking about the 20th century. There was no Fascism prior to WW1.

Further, all the examples of colonialism you mention were perpetrated by mercantile economies run by royal families, with the sole exception being the US since it is a republic, not a monarchy. And the American System, or Protectionism, is really a kind of mercantile economy.

kirtu said:
I led with Belgium because that history is not controversial, only the death toll range is in doubt but it is definitely in the millions with 15M commonly invoked.  You could still counter with at least 12M for Nazi Germany and 25M or so for Soviet Russia, but the capitalist countries still get there together over a slightly broader range of history.

Malcolm wrote:
Your forgot to add the 45 million people who died under Mao in four years, to that we can add the 3 million people killed  by Pol Pot.

kirtu said:
You will have to at least retract "in your wildest dreams".

Malcolm wrote:
I was talking about the 20th century.

Not even the US was a truly capitalist society with free markets under the National System after the Civil war. Actually, it was really only in the 1970's that the US, under Nixon, adopted the free-trade, lassez faire system. Trump/Bannon is a right wing reaction to Nixon's globalist policies.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 10:53 PM
Title: Re: View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga
Content:
Vasana said:
I think this is touched upon in the Supreme Source.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a difference in how appearances are treated in sems sde, klong sde, and man ngag sde. See Treasury of Dharmadhātu.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 2:42 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Aryjna said:
Has the Ghanavyuha sutra been translated? I can't find much about it online.

ItsRaining said:
It's the Entering the Dharma Realm section of the Avatamsaka/Flower Adorement Sutra, there are translations by the City of Ten Thousand Buddhas and Thomas Cleary. The CTTB one is on their website here:

http://www.cttbusa.org/avatamsaka/avatamsaka39.asp

Malcolm wrote:
This is a common error, one I have made myself. The Ghanavyuh a and the Ghandavyhua are two entirely separate sūtras. The one you are referring too is the latter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 12:33 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


DGA said:
Nor do I recall reading anywhere that Malcolm has claimed that the Buddha has eradicated all afflictions, as you claim he has.

Malcolm wrote:
Urns
Let's set the record straight then. The Buddha has eradicated all afflictions, it is axiomatic. Only those whose understanding of the Dharma is completely perverse deny this.

illarraza said:
That's why you hate the Lotus Sutra and its votaries...Because they overturn everything you believe and were taught for the last forty years. As the Infinite Meanings Sutra teaches, "In these last forty years, I have not yet revealed the truth "(Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo). With this clear statement, he overturns his teachings of the last forty years and he overturns your pie in the sky Buddha who has eradicated all afflictions. A Buddha who has eradicated all afflictions, is an Expedient teaching, including the teachings of the first Fourteen Chapters of the Lotus Sutra. A corollary to this is that the Buddha first attained Enlightenment for the first time under the Tree when in fact He attained Enlightenment in the infinite past.

Malcolm wrote:
Mark, this is pure religious fanaticism. You poor man. You are so wrapped up in Buddhist dogma you cannot even have a real conversation with anyone.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 9:54 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


DGA said:
Nor do I recall reading anywhere that Malcolm has claimed that the Buddha has eradicated all afflictions, as you claim he has.


Malcolm wrote:
Let's set the record straight then. The Buddha has eradicated all afflictions, it is axiomatic. Only those whose understanding of the Dharma is completely perverse deny this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 9:50 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
illarraza said:
The Lotus Sutra teaches that this IS the Eternal Pure land. The deluded like Malcolm see Samsara as a World of suffering.

Malcolm wrote:
Are you sufficiently insane that you think that this is not happening?



If so, frankly, you are just a religious wingnut who is not worth paying attention too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 7:34 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Ricky said:
Luckily the tax bill will preserve current incentives.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually the tax bill is gutting wind and solar incentives.
My bad, old news.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 7:13 AM
Title: Re: Phowa at the time of death
Content:
csmorg96 said:
When a dzogchen practitioner is practicing phowa for someone else are they practicing nirmanakaya phowa?

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 7:09 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


treehuggingoctopus said:
No Malcolm, it really is not. Genuine social ownership and democratic control of the means of production in Venezuela?

Malcolm wrote:
Look, the Maduro people claim they are socialists. They, like Chavez, claim that they are preserving surpluses from oil revenue for the people. This is completely consistent with Marxian Socialist ethics.

treehuggingoctopus said:
It is a mixture of a typical neoliberal state and what Chomsky aptly calls a "state capitalist economy." No worker-controlled means of production, no worker-controlled government and no democratic control of anything.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, which is typical of the "dictatorship of the proletariat." Recall, Trotsky wanted the world turned into a concentration camp.

treehuggingoctopus said:
There are private businesses and big corporations there, and they are doing fine.

Malcolm wrote:
No one is doing fine in Venezuala. Just ask Elias Caprilles.

Anyway, your "Socialism" is a fantasy. It never has happened anywhere, can't happen anywhere (as more than one failed centrally planned economy has demonstrated) and moreover, the so called "means of production," which are a product of Capitalism, are themselves toxic by nature.

Further, Communists were and are just as bloody minded as Fascists, operating out class bias and resentments as opposed to racial/national bias and resentments. The shear number of innocent people murdered by Communists and Fascists in the 20th century alone should make everyone as equally nervous about Marxist Socialism as they are about Fascism. Frankly, no Capitalist country has ever come close to the bloodshed inflicted on the world by Communists and Fascists, not in your wildest dreams.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 5:44 AM
Title: Re: Phowa at the time of death
Content:
csmorg96 said:
Do Dzogchen practitioners practice phowa as they are dying or is this practice not considered necessary for those who have genuinely discovered the nature of their minds?

Malcolm wrote:
They practice dharmakāya phowa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 5:27 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Perfect example of a failed, centralized economy.
Market economies are better at providing goods and services, however they are also completely incapable of pricing environmental and social risk without solid, well thought out environmental and social regulation. Right now, for example, the Trump administration is going the wrong way with respect to regulation, and the consequence will be more rapid global warming, more climate instability, more industrial pollution, and losses in the trillions as the oceans continue inundate the coasts, where the majority of humans live and storms grown increasing more intense and damaging.

Ricky said:
Regulation is important when it comes to protecting the environment. More incentives could also be given to companies who specialize in renewable energy. Luckily the tax bill will preserve current incentives.


Malcolm wrote:
There are a lot of other things the market cannot correctly price, like health care. This is why we need Universal Health care, when one digs deeper, one finds there are all kinds of other things that markets do not address without regulation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 5:25 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Ricky said:
Luckily the tax bill will preserve current incentives.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually the tax bill is gutting wind and solar incentives.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 5:24 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


treehuggingoctopus said:
By the way: Venezuela is not, and has never been, a socialist state.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure it is.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 4:09 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Incidentally, these are 25 other sūtras besides the Lotus Sūtra where the ekayāna is taught explicitly:

1. The Aṣṭasāhasrikā-prajñāpāramitā Sūtra

2. Buddha-avataṃsaka

3. Varmavyūha-nirdeśa

4. Śrīmālādevī-siṃhanāda

5. Acintya-prabhāsa-nirdeśa

6. Saṃdhinirmocana

7. Laṅkāvatāra

8. Ghanavyūha

9. Mahāparinirvāṇa

10. Praśānta-viniścaya-prātihārya-samādhi

11. Samādhi-agrottama

12. Bodhisattva-gocaropāya-viṣaya-vikurvāṇa-nirdeśa

13. Tathāgata-mahākaruṇā-nirdeśa

14. Druma-kiṃnararāja

15. Mahāyānopadeśa

16. Akṣayamati-nirdeśa

17. Aṅgulimālīya

18. Mahābherīhāraka

19. Ratnamegha

20. Daśacakra-kṣitigarbha

21. Avaivartacakra

22. Saddharma-rāja

23. Paramārtha-dharma-vijaya

24. Dharmārtha-vibhaṅga

25. Upāyakauśalya


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 3:37 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra
Content:



DGA said:
That's what I learned today.  Thank you and goodnight.

Malcolm wrote:
Chapter 22 of the Lotus Sūtra also states:
"In future ages if there are good man and good women who have faith in the wisdom of the Thus Come One, you should preach and expound the Lotus Sutra for them., so that others may hear and understand it. For in this way you can cause them to gain the Buddha wisdom. If there are living beings who do not believe or accept it, you should use some of the other profound doctrines of the Thus Come One to teach, benefit and bring joy to them. If you do all this, then you will have repaid the debt of gratitude that you owe to the Buddha."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 3:15 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


Ricky said:
I would like to hear what you and others have to say about Venezuela.

Malcolm wrote:
Perfect example of a failed, centralized economy.

Market economies are better at providing goods and services, however they are also completely incapable of pricing environmental and social risk without solid, well thought out environmental and social regulation. Right now, for example, the Trump administration is going the wrong way with respect to regulation, and the consequence will be more rapid global warming, more climate instability, more industrial pollution, and losses in the trillions as the oceans continue inundate the coasts, where the majority of humans live and storms grown increasing more intense and damaging.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 17th, 2017 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Queequeg said:
So, it seems to make more sense that instead of jumping to negative assumptions about others, we ought to give our fellows the benefit of the doubt.

Malcolm wrote:
I think the Buddha said it the best, "Mañjuśrī, seeing afflictions is bodhi."

My observation of sentient beings is that they are afflicted. Plain and simple. There are no sentient beings free from affliction by definition. Why? Because they do not see afflictions.

kirtu said:
Many do see afflictions (the gross ones).  But they do not see the gross afflictions as harmful.  Even the gross afflictions are not seen for what they actually are.  For example, some people see afflicted sexual desire (beyond just expieriencing it) as actually negative but are still unable to deal with it.

Kirt


Malcolm wrote:
That means they do not see afflictions as afflictions, thus they do not see them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 11:38 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Queequeg said:
So, it seems to make more sense that instead of jumping to negative assumptions about others, we ought to give our fellows the benefit of the doubt.

Malcolm wrote:
I think the Buddha said it the best, "Mañjuśrī, seeing afflictions is bodhi."

My observation of sentient beings is that they are afflicted. Plain and simple. There are no sentient beings free from affliction by definition. Why? Because they do not see afflictions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 10:40 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
narhwal90 said:
If thats the theory that motivates one's practice, then the training is there when the toe is stubbed and the jerk cuts in front.   Its easy to only talk the talk in any practice.

Queequeg said:
Malcolm knows well that view guides practice. I'm not sure why the negativity.

Malcolm wrote:
It is very easy to delude oneself with this kind of view. It is easy to kid oneself.

Of course, if one is perfectly honest with oneself, one will recognize when desire is desire, ignorance is ignorance, and hatred is hatred, and not an expression of anything other than a cause of karma which in turn results only in suffering.

Now if one knows and recognizes desire as desire when desire arises, and so on, then maybe one can say that at that moment bodhi begins to dawn every so slightly if that desire etc., does not lead to action which in turn leads inevitably to suffering. But if one excuses desire, etc., as bodhi and merely continues to inflame the three poisons, soon one will be joining all the buddhas in hell who don't know they are buddhas. Why, because they, like oneself, did not recognize the three poisons as the three poisons.

The problem with forums like these is that it is easy to have a view in one's mouth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 10:22 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
It is the ideal we strive for, however imperfectly.

Malcolm wrote:
Hence, all the stubbed toes and road rage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 9:57 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
All this concern with where a Buddha attains enlightenment is a problem of supposing enlightenment is gained rather than what we are.

Malcolm wrote:
If you wish to regard yourself as a buddha encased in afflictions, that is just fine. Now, about those afflictions...

Queequeg said:
Distinguishing afflictions in that way is a wrong view for us. Bodhi expresses as afflictions - and it follows afflictions express as bodhi. It depends on the view.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh yawn. Theory is great until you stub your toe. These kinds of sentiments roll nicely off the tongue and make one feel good, until the road rage sets in...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 11:02 AM
Title: Re: What's an emanation?
Content:
DGA said:
I'm bringing up this topic again because, as it turns out, this theme is consequential for how some practitioners approach their practice, and how certain practices are understood.  To give an example from a DW thread a few years ago, here are portions of some posts that show how one particular interpretation of the emanations of Buddha Shakyamuni in the Lotus Sutra can lead a practitioner to reject one practice and embrace another (full text at the link):

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=9389

rory said:
I have a Tendai background and practiced pure land (which I heartily repent) so my allusion wasn't a shot or being mean, it's just my frame of reference.
When I read in the Lotus Sutra that Amida was a replica Buddha preaching the Lotus Sutra in Sukhavati and we should abandon provisional paths, it entirely resonated and I abandoned the practice.

DGA said:
I leave it to you to determine if the Lotus Sutra actually makes such a claim about Amitabha (I don't think it does, but you can see for yourself).  What interests me in these posts is that a specific narrative about what a Buddha is and does, based on a related narrative about one sutra, could lead a Dharma practitioner to sincerely repent of having done serious Dharma practice.

I don't wish to condemn or commend this kind of action.  I'm just marking it as extraordinary and remarkable, because it seems to me that it is.

This is why I think it's worthwhile for Dharma practitioners to have some clarity on what the word "Buddha" means, and how the three kayas work:  your understanding of these matters can impact your practice dramatically.



Malcolm wrote:
Yes, regretting engaging in any Dharma practice seems rather strange, if not fanatical.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 5:53 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Pero said:
What's the difference between a dbang chen and regular dbang?

Malcolm wrote:
a dbang chen has a very elaborate section for the vase empowerment. This is main difference.

Pero said:
I see, thanks.

Malcolm wrote:
Usually has a sand mandala or some kind of cloth mandala as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 5:44 AM
Title: Re: Mala Etiquette
Content:
javier.espinoza.t said:
If really Gurú Padmasambhava gave directions on mala characteristics, then it is important.

Is the posted info reliable?

Mantrik said:
The info I posted came from Gyatrul Rinpoche ( "The Generation Stage in Buddhist Tantra'')  but I'm afraid I don't know the exact source the Lama was quoting.
Malcolm alluded to the Tantras containing some guidance, in another thread.  Could you give us any links to sources please, Malcolm, about choosing and using a mala?

Malcolm wrote:
The tantras say a bodhiseed māla is the best.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 4:39 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Pero said:
What's the difference between a dbang chen and regular dbang?

Malcolm wrote:
a dbang chen has a very elaborate section for the vase empowerment. This is main difference.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 3:51 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:


heart said:
It will for sure be instructions, but wangchen seems unlikely. I don't think there is a wangchen for mandarava, I never heard ChNNR talk about that.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, there is in fact a dbang chen for Mandarava, but he gives it very rarely.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 2:44 AM
Title: Re: Santa La Muerte
Content:
Tenma said:
Could you give an example of an affliction?

Malcolm wrote:
Desire, hatred, and ignorance. These are three afflictions. They are the forces that drive samsara.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 1:05 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Queequeg said:
And to quote myself:
(And so ends my zen master in a motley bit)

Malcolm wrote:
And to quote myself:
rhetorical posturing


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 12:59 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Minobu said:
ahh  i get this as Buddhism moved geographically it was met with all sorts.
i thought Dzogchen was a Bon thing basically at it's roots..and for some Mahayanists they saw fit to incor[porate it into buddhism .
so there is no Bon thought in Dzogchen it is pure Buddhist thought?

Malcolm wrote:
No, there is no Bonpo thought in Dzogchen. It is a pure system of Buddhadharma.

Minobu said:
So there is no Bon thought in Dzogchen...just the Bonpos discarding Bon and turning total Buddhist?

Malcolm wrote:
More or less, this it the way things are. They have their own myths and legends of course, but for all purposes modern Bon is indistinguishable from Buddhism.


Minobu said:
I cannot find this emanation of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha Vajrahe and the beginnings of Dzogchen .

Malcolm wrote:
Of course not. Garab Dorje, (Vajrahe/Vajraprahe) arose much later in the time.  His teaching in India was in a very small circle, and was controversial even in India, but for reasons that are completely Buddhist. The controversy over Dzogchen in India had to with with whether or not it was necessary to engage in many of the visualization practices we find in Vajrayāna. The Dzogchen position is that it is not necessary.


Minobu said:
what are your thoughts on making the Gohonzon and the deities and Buddhas and Bodhisattvas  depicted on Gohonzon as your guru ?

Malcolm wrote:
I respect all images of the Buddha and bodhisattvas as nirmanakāyas, and all words and letters of the sūtrasand tantras as sambhogakāyas. But these teachings cannot be pointed out by books and words because Dzogchen is the teaching of the Dharmakāya. That said, mostly what I do is spend my day translating commentaries on Dzogchen tantras. Ironic, no?


Minobu said:
it seems to be working for me ...am i in some sort of delusional retrograde ...

Malcolm wrote:
No, you are following a Buddhadharma path based on your karma and inclinations, just as I am.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 12:53 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
any practice one with Mahāyāna motivation becomes a Mahāyāna practice

Astus said:
How can motivation be a sufficient criteria? That would mean even a mistaken idea about the path leads to buddhahood.

Malcolm wrote:
No, that consequence is an exaggeration. Mistaken ideas about the path are impediments to awakening, but they are not impediments to gathering accumulations, devotion, and so on, and gradually, one will overcome such mistakes, especially if one learns to train in ultimate bodhicitta, śamatha and vipaśyāna.

However, the force of generating the initial thought of awakening are so powerful that as Santideva says:

The moment bodhicitta arises,
the wretched one confined in the prison of samsara
is called “a child of the Sugatas,” 
and worldly gods and people offer homage.

And the Avatamska states:

Child of good lineage, bodhicitta is the seed of Dharma of the Buddhas.

The Vīradattagṛhapatiparipṛcchā states:

Whatever is the merit of bodhicitta, 
if that existed in form,
it would more than fill
all of  space.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 16th, 2017 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
Some Buddhisms, not naming any in particular, not even the Buddhism of this subforum necessarily, seem to insist that ordinary beings are already completely enlightenment Buddhas & that there is no progress to be made, no afflictions to be lost, the radical thing is when this is believed of both the ultimate & conventional perspectives. It makes for a very triumphalist Buddhadharma, in which everyone is on a nonretrograding coaster for awakening, and there is no need to practice anything ever, because the results of the practice are already in fruition.

Malcolm wrote:
This kind of "Buddhism" is as far removed from Buddhadharma as Advaita Vedanta.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
All this concern with where a Buddha attains enlightenment is a problem of supposing enlightenment is gained rather than what we are.

Malcolm wrote:
If you wish to regard yourself as a buddha encased in afflictions, that is just fine. Now, about those afflictions...

Queequeg said:
What Buddha? What afflictions?

Malcolm wrote:
The afflictions that cause you, a buddha, to take rebirth in samsara. You can waffle all you like, but the fact of the matter is that if you are not practicing Dharma to alleviate the suffering caused by afflictions for yourself and others, you have not understood the point of Buddhadharma at all, and are wasting your timel. I suspect you are practicing Dharma to alleviate the suffering caused by afflictions for yourself and others, so your protest is merely rhetorical posturing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Your answer is a non sequitur.

Astus said:
In that case I was simply wrong in my presumption that by that you were rejecting the whole section on there being more to Mahayana than having motivation.


Malcolm wrote:
The point was that you cited a passage from a sūtra which referred to āryabodhisattvas. But there are other bodhisattvas on the paths of application and accumulation, below the path of seeing. I was pointing out simply that any practice one with Mahāyāna motivation becomes a Mahāyāna practice, for example, if one ordains as a bhikṣu with the intent to attain buddhahood to liberate all sentient beings, that ordination becomes a Mahāyāna practice by definition. The true difference between Hinayāna and Mahāyāna is whether or not one practices Dharma with the intent to attain anuttarasamyaksambodhi or not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 9:53 PM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Queequeg said:
All this concern with where a Buddha attains enlightenment is a problem of supposing enlightenment is gained rather than what we are.

Malcolm wrote:
If you wish to regard yourself as a buddha encased in afflictions, that is just fine. Now, about those afflictions...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 9:50 PM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I don’t accept the 55 level scheme.

Astus said:
I don't think that's a problem, since it is not important in Zen except for some advocates of gradual practice. The point still remains, however, that to have the bodhisattva motivation one needs some level of faith and understanding as well.

Malcolm wrote:
Your answer is a non sequitur.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 10:24 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I don’t accept the 55 level scheme.
This refers strictly to āryabodhisattvas. It does not refer to bodhisattvas on the paths of accumulation or application.

Astus said:
What I meant is that vow is not enough, one also needs some level of understanding, faith, renunciation, and compassion, since without those even the vow is baseless. So for instance the Surangama Sutra teaches that even before one enters the ten stages of faith, one must obtain "dry wisdom", called dry because it is without sensual desire. Then the ten stages of faith means faith, remembrance, zeal, wisdom, concentration, non-retrogression, protection of the Dharma, reflection, discipline, and vow show the necessary qualities needed to progress to the following three times ten stages, then four additional practices, until one reaches the ten bhumis.

Hyjeong wrote about those 55 levels:

"The fifty-five stations are simply the results obtained after resting the mind and removing falsities. Therefore, before completing the full (final) station (of buddhahood), if you reach level one, you will be satisfied with gaining a little and give rise to a pride in knowing and understanding the Dharma (completely). But in the end, if you enter great awareness (enlightenment), the former stations you passed through will all be illusions, and be useless states. Therefore a patriarchal teacher said, “I would rather die than walk through the fifty-five stations.”"
(Abstracts of the Essentials of the Mind Dharma, in Collected Works of Korean Buddhism, vol 3, p 231)

And Huangbo:

"there is fast and slow in realizing this mind: there are those who attain no-mind in a single moment of thought after hearing the Dharma; those who attain no-mind after [passing through] the ten faiths, the ten abodes, the ten practices, and the ten conversions; and those who attain no-mind after [passing through] the ten stages [of the bodhisattva]. In spite of the length of time it takes them to [attain it, once they] reside in no-mind there is nothing else to be cultivated or realized. Truly without anything to be attained, true and not false [is no-mind]. Whether it is attained in a single moment of thought or at the tenth stage [of the bodhisattva], its efficacy is identical. There are no further gradations of profundity, only the useless striving of successive eons."
(Essentials of the Transmission of Mind, in Zen Texts, BDK ed, p 16)

So Linji said:

"But because you students lack faith in yourselves, you run around seeking something outside. Even if, through your seeking, you did find something, that something would be nothing more than fancy descriptions in written words; never would you gain the mind of the living patriarch. Make no mistake, worthy Chan men! If you don’t find it here and now, you’ll go on transmigrating through the three realms for myriads of kalpas and thousands of lives, and, held in the clutch of captivating circumstances, be born in the wombs of asses or cows."
(Record of Linji, p 8, tr Sasaki)


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 8:23 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Nowhere, that is where. Nevertheless, the universal healthcare thing is a no-brainer. Conservative economists in the 60's were calling for UH because they recognized that no one can make intelligent choices in a healthcare marketplace, and a free market depends on the ability to make rational and informed choices. We just have to extend Medicare for all, wallah!

Ricky said:
That will plunge the country into deeper debt unless we can reduce spending in some other places, but first priority should be to pay it all off rather than increasing the burden on future generations.

kirtu said:
Austerity is the path to bankruptcy.

Kirt


Malcolm wrote:
We agree on this much. The debt thing is a red herring.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 6:15 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:



kirtu said:
For starters, a viable minimal income + universal health care , these two alone, fix most problems.


Ricky said:
Country is already in colossal debt. Where will they get the money for these programs?

Malcolm wrote:
Nowhere, that is where. Nevertheless, the universal healthcare thing is a no-brainer. Conservative economists in the 60's were calling for UH because they recognized that no one can make intelligent choices in a healthcare marketplace, and a free market depends on the ability to make rational and informed choices. We just have to extend Medicare for all, wallah!


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 6:15 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:


kirtu said:
Well, the future of the world is not dependant upon the exploitative empire occupying the middle of North America.

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, it pretty much still is.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 5:59 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:



kirtu said:
Funny what you say about the US economy.  It is in shambles but you and others (mostly with incrementalist Democrat tendencies) refuse to see it.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not in a shambles over all. Obama;s policies were largely successful. It may yet fall into a hole too big to dig out of as a result Herr Drumpf's meddling. We will see.


kirtu said:
But then you immediately follow that with violence being the only option.  Why?

For starters, a viable minimal income + universal health care , these two alone, fix most problems.

Malcolm wrote:
By the time we are in Weimar territory, it will be too late for that. Anyway, that is what the Nazi's promised, and they delivered (at the expense of the Jews, and so on).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 5:44 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Grigoris said:
What being an Antifa, even a puerile poser, essentially entails is putting an obstacle between Fascists and their intended victims.  I applaud those you use their white privilege against those trying to impose theirs on the (largely) defenceless.  What people fail to understand is that for every blown out of proportion direct attack on Fascists that we see plastered all over the screens, there are scores of unreported attacks on innocents, by Fascists.  Many of these attacks (eg by volunteer border patrol posse on wretched migrants) are sanctioned by the state.  If you think that punching Spencer in the face is the same as shooting and killing migrants trying to escape bone-crushing poverty and conflict, then maybe you deserve a punch in the head to awaken you up from your somnambulism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 5:43 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:


CedarTree said:
Malcolm had to admit as much when he got pressed on the logic he was presenting.

Malcolm wrote:
That is not the case. I pointed out that Dharmakīrti's arguments were presented in the form of heuristic which basically state that if a person believes mind arises from matter, there was no further point in the discussion. Basically, no one in India bothered arguing with the Carvakas. What is the point of arguing with someone who believes only in direct perception as a valid means of knowledge?

My discussion with PA was centered around whether or not that was his/her POV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 5:39 AM
Title: Re: HHST Yamantaka initiation 2018
Content:
Punya said:
Thanks Malcolm. Do you know if the deceased person has to be recently deceased ie within the 49 days, and is it possible to request their inclusion without attending the ceremony?

Malcolm wrote:
Can be for anyone who is deceased, no matter how long.

Punya said:
Curious. Wouldn't the vast majority have moved on to a new life and therefore no longer be "deceased".

Malcolm wrote:
It doesn't matter, it is always beneficial.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 5:34 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
“The thing about us fascists is, it’s not that we don’t believe in freedom of speech,” the younger Tefft reportedly said to his father. “You can say whatever you want. We’ll just throw you in an oven.”
And:

Bray, for his part, believes that one can practice “everyday anti-fascism” by confronting bigots in nonviolent ways, “from calling them out, to boycotting their business, to shaming them for their oppressive beliefs, to ending a friendship unless someone shapes up.” The point, as he sees it, is to shut down Fascists not just in the street but in every interaction. “An anti-fascist outlook has no tolerance for ‘intolerance.’ ” he writes. “It will not ‘agree to disagree.’ ”
https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/an-intimate-history-of-antifa

kirtu said:
But in the article (and presumably in the book [“Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook”, Mark Bray]) it's violence all the way down.

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
Well, Gandhian tactics would not have prevented Mussolini or Hitler...however, the reality on the ground is that in order for Fascism to truly viable in the US, we would need an economy in shambles like the Weimar. At that point, violence really would be the only option.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 5:32 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Minobu said:
so like then it really isn't Buddhism...
it came out of Bon...

Malcolm wrote:
No, Dzogchen is fully Buddhist. The Bonpos borrowed it from the Buddhists, like so much else. That said, Bonpo Dzogchen is just fine.

Minobu said:
if you are going to negate buddhist realities and say dzogchen goes further....

Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen is a Mahāyāna system. Within Mahāyāna it belongs to uncommon Mahāyāna secret mantra. Within uncommon secret mantra, it belongs to the inner tantras.

The main difference between Dzogchen and other systems of Buddhadharma is that other systems of Buddhadharma practice are based on mind. Dzogchen practice, from the beginning, is based on jñāna. But if someone is really curious about what that means, they have to go and find some guru who is willing to instruct them.

It is not, an elitist system, however. Vajrahe, emanation of Śākyamuni and first human teacher of Dzogchen said, "if there is one student who is not interested in Dzogchen, that is too many. If there are 100 students interested in Dzogchen, that is too few."

Many people who wish to follow Buddhadharma do not wish to have a close relationship with a guru. This is perfectly fine. There are all kinds of strands of Buddhadharma where the relationship with a teacher is not so vital. For people who are not interested in that kind of relationship with a teacher there are all kinds of practices.

But anyone who wishes to follow Dzogchen teachings must have a guru. There is no other way.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 5:16 AM
Title: Re: HHST Yamantaka initiation 2018
Content:
Punya said:
Thanks Malcolm. Do you know if the deceased person has to be recently deceased ie within the 49 days, and is it possible to request their inclusion without attending the ceremony?

Malcolm wrote:
Can be for anyone who is deceased, no matter how long.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 5:07 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Unknown said:
“The thing about us fascists is, it’s not that we don’t believe in freedom of speech,” the younger Tefft reportedly said to his father. “You can say whatever you want. We’ll just throw you in an oven.”

Malcolm wrote:
And:

Bray, for his part, believes that one can practice “everyday anti-fascism” by confronting bigots in nonviolent ways, “from calling them out, to boycotting their business, to shaming them for their oppressive beliefs, to ending a friendship unless someone shapes up.” The point, as he sees it, is to shut down Fascists not just in the street but in every interaction. “An anti-fascist outlook has no tolerance for ‘intolerance.’ ” he writes. “It will not ‘agree to disagree.’ ”
https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/an-intimate-history-of-antifa


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 5:00 AM
Title: Re: Santa La Muerte
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Male penises? Aren't they all male?

Malcolm wrote:
Gender, it seems is no longer connected with what kind of junk you have. Kind of a relief, I guess.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Queequeg said:
Reading some Longchempa and other Dzogchen texts, I've wondered the same thing. I can't think of specifics right now, but I actually wondered if Zhiyi's ideas might have drifted up into Tibet, or alternatively, and more likely, there were common sources.

Malcolm wrote:
No, not likely. The real gist of Dzogchen is so different than Lotus Buddhism and every other form of Buddhism that it really cannot be related to texts of the lower yānas at all, while at the same time incorporating their meaning fully.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 4:46 AM
Title: Re: HHST Yamantaka initiation 2018
Content:
Punya said:
Vajrayogini Changchog Ceremony to purify the negativities of the deceased to achieve higher rebirth and liberation.
Can anyone say more about this ceremony and it's origins? I've heard of something like this before. If we have to purify our own negativities in this life, how is it possible for a master to help the deceased?

Malcolm wrote:
These rites are all based on the Sarvadurgatipariśodana tantra. They involve giving the deceased a kind of abhiśekha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Sādhaka said:
I was only addressing your questions. I'm not particularly  interested in Nichiren. Maybe there is a good reason they think the Lotus Sutra is so important?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no question that the Lotus Sūtra is an important text. Dogen, for example, esteems it above all other sūtras in the Shobogenzo.


Sādhaka said:
I would be interested in reading a Tibetan commentary on it with all the root text as well. It looks like Erick Tsiknopoulos is working on one; but it does not look like it has come to fruition yet.

Malcolm wrote:
As far as I know, there is only a short text by Chogyal Phagpa refuting the Tientai idea of sudden awakening which revolves around the daughter of Nāgārāja Sāgara.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 4:27 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Queequeg said:
Buddhist teachers tell us, being ignorantly awake and conscious is as unreal as a dream. Once you understand that, a whole range of possibilities opens up. Then you understand how the Buddha promising deer, goat and ox carts to lure us out of the house is not a lie, how the Buddha's parinirvana is not a lie. They're deformations of the dream world that induce us to expedient thoughts, words and deeds.

Malcolm wrote:
I really wonder what Zhiyi would have made of Dzogchen texts. Pity, we'll never know.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 4:01 AM
Title: Re: Santa La Muerte
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
Mictecacihuatl would love such an offering. Her favourite offering was the blood dripped into a cup directly from an incision in a male practitioner's penis.

That doesn't mean one should offer to her, or that Saint Death is the "same" as her.

cyril said:
Well, the blood of a sacrificial victim = life-force. The drop of blood you squeeze out of a pimple - hardly that IMO.
I totally agree that equating SM with Mictecacihuatl is some New Age BS. If anyone wants to work with SM, they should learn how to do that from those curanderos who know her likes and dislikes.

Coëmgenu said:
She did not want human sacrifices, she, like most Aztec and Maya gods, loved most sweetly the blood from live male genitals. You can find this substantiated online, if my word is not enough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodletting_in_Mesoamerica. Search "genitals". The rabbit hole does deeper, though, by far, when it comes to antique Mesoamerican religion.

Malcolm wrote:
Just another day on Dharmawheel.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 3:51 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Sādhaka said:
In his commentary on the Heart Sutra, the Dalai Lama implies that they all met there via dream practice or like what some would call astral projection.

Malcolm wrote:
So to reinforce Nichiren's POV, the Lotus Sūtra is does not depict a literal historical event, but rather, vision in a dream?

That is not really what I took Nichiren to mean from Q's comment. I took it to mean that the ordinary perception of beings is a dream. This still leaves it open to being a literal historical event.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 3:39 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Minobu said:
so lets have it then
"who heard from who and how". some sort of Dharmakaya thing?
a vision?


Malcolm wrote:
There are all kinds of literary strategies in Buddhist canonical texts, if you but take the time to ferret them out.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 3:26 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Dan74 said:
No, fascism should of course be opposed with all our power. I'd argue (as I and othera have done before) that going out and beating nationalist and proto-fascist groups just puts wind in their sails - gives them more exposure and sympathy of the fence-sitters and actually some moral legitimacy, since they paint themselves as an oppressed minority, besides actually being wrong.

Malcolm wrote:
I am not saying one should go out and punch Nazis. But I am not going to pretend that people who do are not doing us all a favor. Cornell West, for example, asserts that the Anitfa saved his life in Charlottesville.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Queequeg said:
If the description of the assembly at the opening of the Sutra did not clue one into the nature of the teaching, the UFO emerging from the Earth should have removed all doubt. And this is coming from someone who believes the Sutra to be utterly true.

Malcolm wrote:
So you believe it be utterly true, rather then literally true?

Queequeg said:
Fair distinction. I included the quote to explain what I meant.


Malcolm wrote:
And since you do not believe it to be literally true, Minobu should be hassling you?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: Santa La Muerte
Content:
Tenma said:
so is it okay or not?

Malcolm wrote:
Totally not ok. This deity is not a dharmapāla, has sworn no oaths to the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 2:32 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Queequeg said:
If the description of the assembly at the opening of the Sutra did not clue one into the nature of the teaching, the UFO emerging from the Earth should have removed all doubt. And this is coming from someone who believes the Sutra to be utterly true.

Malcolm wrote:
So you believe it be utterly true, rather then literally true?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 1:58 AM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Dan74 said:
While I share people's distaste for fascists, in the interest of intellectual honesty, I have to say there is no moral equivalence between minority lefties trying to stymie the tide of fascism as in Italy and Germany in early 20th Century and antifa beating small bunches of misfits and disgruntled yokels like now in the US and Australia.

Malcolm wrote:
Fascism in both Italy and Germany started with "small bunches of misfits and disgruntled yokels," for example, Hitler and Mussolini.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 1:56 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
The Cicada said:
but that just leaves us claiming that the other side believes in a bunch of mythological hooey.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, you finally figured it out...

Simon E. said:
I wouldn't go that far personally.
Myths can be very potent teaching aids.
What they are not is any kind of history or record of conventional reality.


Malcolm wrote:
I was pointing out the poverty of negating someone else's mythological hooey and trying to prove your own. Most Buddhist polemics boil down to exactly that unless they are strictly doctrinal, for example, Yogacara, Madhyamaka, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 1:34 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
I think there is definitely Buddhism without rebirth, because many Buddhists (myself included) only have a tangential idea of what 'Buddhist' rebirth even is, inasmuch as they/we can even try to say "sure, my conception of rebirth is definitely mostly orthodox, I just have a few questions".

Malcolm wrote:
If only people would study Indian masters like Vasubandhu, etc. Or even the Buddha:
[The Buddha continued:]
O  Ānanda, because of this causality, I know that sense contact arises from the cause of a mental and physical process, and that depending on
a mental and physical process there arises sense contact. The meaning of causal dependence that I intend to explain can be found here.

O  Ānanda, what does it mean to say that depending on consciousness there arises the mental and physical process? If consciousness does not enter into the mother’s womb, could a mental and physical process arise?
— Great Causality Sutra


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 1:10 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Minobu said:
i take it from what i've read you have written that Mahayana Sutra are just myths and legends....your words you wrote once.

Malcolm wrote:
I once speculated that Mahāyāna Sūtras were visionary revelations, but not records of actual historical events.

However, clinging to the events described in the Lotus Sūtra, or any other Mahāyāna Sūtra, opens up an uncomfortable can of worms for those who literally believe in the text of the sūtra in question.

For example, have you ever seen Vulture's Peak where the Buddha is said to have taught this sūtra?




How are 12,000 arhat bhikṣus supposed to fit there? Let alone, 2,000 extra, 6,000 nuns, and 80,000 bodhisattvas? Were they all levitating in space around the mountain?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 15th, 2017 at 12:07 AM
Title: Re: Shakra-Indra as Xtian God
Content:



Stefos said:
Also, In Vedanta, Chaitanya or Pure Awareness is our actual state and THIS accords perfectly with Mahamudra & Dzogchen and
what the Pali texts teach.


Malcolm wrote:
No. Vedanta is specifically refuted by Dzogchen tantras, and so is their concept of nonduality.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 11:55 PM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
The Cicada said:
but that just leaves us claiming that the other side believes in a bunch of mythological hooey.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, you finally figured it out...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
The Cicada said:
before being cisformed back into her normal form in that instant.

Malcolm wrote:
No, there is no support at all for this point of view in the text.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: HHST Yamantaka initiation 2018
Content:
kirtu said:
Is this at a private house?  It looks like one takes the Fichtburg line to Littleton.  Can one then get a cab from there to the venue?

Thanks!

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a private house, it is a motel. It is very difficult to get their by public transportation, but yes, one could get an cab or an uber.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 11:38 PM
Title: Re: young khachab rinpoche a terton?
Content:
tingdzin said:
Caveat emptor.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed. Think #metoo


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Nationalism is fundamentally a right wing phenomena since it is based on exclusion.

Grigoris said:
While fundamentally I agree with you, there are left-wing national liberation movements too:  EZLN, FMLN, PLO, etc...

Malcolm wrote:
National liberation movements are not identical with Nationalist movements. Why? The former are struggling for rights to which they have been deprived, the latter in every case wish to deprive rights from someone.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 11:31 PM
Title: Re: Right Wing and Left Wing Totalitairianism and Fascism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I think the word you are searching for is "totalitarian."

tingdzin said:
People who deny that there is a problem with left-wing efforts at thought control, e.g. shouting down or violently assaulting those you disagree with, crashing their websites, etc. must read the news pretty selectively. Call it "fascist" or "totalitarian" it smells just as bad. Engaging in street violence may not make one a "fascist", but it does make one a thug, and there are no "goog guy" thugs.

Malcolm wrote:
Some people should be shouted down, i.e., fascists.

Are you asserting that in the union struggles in the US of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, there is a moral equivalence between union agitators and Pinkertons? I sure don't.

Are you asserting that the socialists who battled Fascists in the streets in in Italy in the 20's, and Nazis in the streets of Germany in the 30's are morally equivalent to Fascists and Nazis? I sure don't.

Even if they have a penchant for violence, the black bloc folks are anarchists, not totalitarians. You can call them thugs if you like, but they were on the right side of history in Charlottesville. Shutting down Milo, Spencer, and Coulter is totally ok in my book. The latter have plenty of outlets to spew their hatred.

Moreover, do you really think the police and the army in the US are actually going to stand in the way of Fascism? They never have in the past.

It can happen here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 3:27 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:



Queequeg said:
This resolves the question definitively. Yay.

Malcolm wrote:
Rory keeps claiming, erroneously, that I do not accept the idea that buddhahood can be attained in female form.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 3:05 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:



Queequeg said:
In Sariputra's perception.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, in the undistorted, i.e., veridical direct perception of an āryaśrāvaka.

Anders said:
Shall we crack open the vimalakirti sutra for some giggles on classical Mahayana takes on the perception of arhats' perception? Specifically sariputra's perception of gender...


Malcolm wrote:
His direct perception of gender was just fine, even in that sūtra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China
Content:
odysseus said:
Fascism is neither left nor right wing, it's a way of life. The classical Fascism from Italy during WWII brought both the left and right together.

Malcolm wrote:
No, Fascism in Italy was nationalist from the beginning. It had some leftist adherents in 1919, but they were swiftly pushed out when the landowners became involved, thus anything remotely progressive about the early months of the Fascist movement vanished.

odysseus said:
Of course the whole point was nationalist - that's where the social nationalist party of the Nazis also came from. That's why Mussolini was able to gather so many followers, whether they came from the left or right.


Malcolm wrote:
Nationalism is fundamentally a right wing phenomena since it is based on exclusion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 2:45 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China
Content:
odysseus said:
Fascism is neither left nor right wing, it's a way of life. The classical Fascism from Italy during WWII brought both the left and right together.

Malcolm wrote:
No, Fascism in Italy was nationalist from the beginning. It had some leftist adherents in 1919, but they were swiftly pushed out when the landowners became involved, thus anything remotely progressive about the early months of the Fascist movement vanished.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Nāgārāja Sāgara's daughter first transforms her gender from female and male in Shariputra's presence, then he (formerly she) goes off the the world system Vimala and attains Buddhahood. It is really quite clear in the text.

Queequeg said:
In Sariputra's perception.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, in the undistorted, i.e., veridical direct perception of an āryaśrāvaka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China
Content:



amanitamusc said:
That explains putins actions. Thanks.
How things change. At least  Buddhism is still alive in Russia for the time being.


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, Russian morphed from leftwing totalitarianism to rightwing totalitarianism with a veneer of democracy in single generation.

Ricky said:
We must liberate them from this tyranny.

Malcolm wrote:
No, they need to liberate themselves.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 1:28 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:



Astus said:
The name is there, the content varies.



Motivation is only one half.

"If a bodhisattva abides in the signs of self, person, sentient being, or life-span, she or he is not a bodhisattva."
( http://www.acmuller.net/bud-canon/diamond_sutra.html, ch 3)

Malcolm wrote:
This refers strictly to āryabodhisattvas. It does not refer to bodhisattvas on the paths of accumulation or application.

pael said:
How then we ordinary sentient beings can seal dedication with emptiness?


Malcolm wrote:
Through bringing to mind the three wheels, no object of dedication, not dedication, and no one dedicating. But this is intellectual, not based on the realization of emptiness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 12:47 AM
Title: Re: I like this forum
Content:
diamind said:
We convert people with logic and kindness.

Buddhist should preach and convert people more in my opinion.  Maybe on that point, we could do with a new kind of evangelical branch of buddhism.

No idea way buddhist teachers take such a relax approach specially considering we are all on the verge of going to hell.  You think they would be going mad and running in the streets to save people.

Motova said:
I hope you're not serious.

diamind said:
What does everyone keep saying that?  Yes I'm serious.  Boudha encourage his disciples to go forth and spread the good news.

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha taught four means of conversion in order to interest others in hearing the Dharma: generosity, pleasant speech, beneficial conduct, and setting an example. In other words, one has to make oneself an exemplary practitioner. If one does so, then beings will be naturally attracted to oneself and one will not have to stand on street corners like evangelists of other religions.

diamind said:
If karma is true then so many people are planting the seeds for there eternal suffering.  Don't you find that disturbing?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no eternal suffering. Suffering is by definition impermanent and conditioned.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 12:20 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China
Content:


amanitamusc said:
Putin.

Malcolm wrote:
Putin is a ultra-rightwing nationalist who controls the press in his country with an iron fist, suppresses minorities, manipulates the Russian Orthodox Church for his own ends, etc. Thus, I would say that it is fair to describe Putin as a fascist. Basically, when the Communist Party in Russia fell apart, the KGB took over the government and adopted a ultra rightwing agenda.

amanitamusc said:
That explains putins actions. Thanks.
How things change. At least  Buddhism is still alive in Russia for the time being.


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, Russian morphed from leftwing totalitarianism to rightwing totalitarianism with a veneer of democracy in single generation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2017 at 12:03 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Obviously your first contention is wrong since the four foundations of mindfulness are found by that name in countless Mahāyāna sūtras.

Astus said:
The name is there, the content varies.
Any practice done with Mahāyāna motivation becomes a Mahāyāna practice.
Motivation is only one half.

"If a bodhisattva abides in the signs of self, person, sentient being, or life-span, she or he is not a bodhisattva."
( http://www.acmuller.net/bud-canon/diamond_sutra.html, ch 3)

Malcolm wrote:
This refers strictly to āryabodhisattvas. It does not refer to bodhisattvas on the paths of accumulation or application.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 11:44 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China
Content:



amanitamusc said:
So you would classify Vlad Pushkatin  a far-right fascist or a communist that manipulates the far-right fascist movements for his benefit?

Grigoris said:
Who is Vlad Pushkatin?

amanitamusc said:
Putin.

Malcolm wrote:
Putin is a ultra-rightwing nationalist who controls the press in his country with an iron fist, suppresses minorities, manipulates the Russian Orthodox Church for his own ends, etc. Thus, I would say that it is fair to describe Putin as a fascist. Basically, when the Communist Party in Russia fell apart, the KGB took over the government and adopted a ultra rightwing agenda.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 11:30 PM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Queequeg said:
She was demonstrating to the misogynistic crowd, exemplified by Sariputra, that a female beast could instantaneously attain Buddhahood, as quickly as she could give a jewel to the Buddha.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, nāgās are a complex issue. Some are animals (lowcast nāgās), but nāgārājas are more like a class of deva, but not exactly.

Nāgārāja Sāgara's daughter first transforms her gender from female and male in Shariputra's presence, then he (formerly she) goes off the the world system Vimala and attains Buddhahood. It is really quite clear in the text.


Queequeg said:
Sariputra has a hang up about male form as the passage makes clear (five classes of beings), so in terms he can accept (upaya) she appears to take male form and become a Buddha.

Malcolm wrote:
She does not merely appear to take on male form, she transforms her gender.


Queequeg said:
This recurrent controversy about male female forms reminds me of the scene where Sariputra gets punked by the sprite in Vimalakirti's house.


Malcolm wrote:
Gaṅgādevi is hardly a sprite. She is the personification of the Ganges river in female form. Her story is much more important in terms of undermining the Hinayāna assertion that only those in male forms can attain samyaksambodhi than the tale of Nāgārāja Sāgara's daughter in the Lotus.

It should go without saying, but in Vajrayāna, the principle that women can attain samyaksambodhi in female form is axiomatic and exemplified in the story of Āryatārā. She is an example of a women who vowed to attain samyaksambodhi in female form and then did so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 10:29 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Bannon is a fascist who actively promotes those who molest underage women.

Wayfarer said:
And looses!

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, thank Buddha. And it was telling yesterday's election happened on Dakini day.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 10:25 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China
Content:


Fa Dao said:
hmmm...I dunno Greg...you do bear a striking resemblance to Castro...could be his little brother or cousin or something...and just for the sake of clarity, if you look closely I also have a beard and have been called a fascist on here many times....there just might be a correlation...enquiring minds want to know! the TRUTH is out there!

Malcolm wrote:
If you voted for Trump and are a fanboy of Bannon, than you are a fascist. If not...

Fa Dao said:
We were given a choice between a turd pie and a crap sandwich...I realized I didnt have to choose either...so I didnt. That being said, I do believe that in the long term that history will show that trump is the very slightly lesser of two evils...

Malcolm wrote:
No, history will show no such thing. Hillary Clinton is not evil, she is mundane and clumsy, but not evil.

Fa Dao said:
not to mention the fact that the far left is just as fascist as the far right...

Malcolm wrote:
I think the word you are searching for is "totalitarian."

The far left isn't fascist, they can't be. Why? They are not nationalist (a defining feature of all Fascist movements in history), nor are they anti-semitic or racist.

These days, the far left is made up primarily of anarchists, but there are no totalitarian anarchists. It is contradiction in terms to call anarchists either "totalitarians" or "fascists." Engaging in street violence does not make one a fascist.

Now, communists are definitely totalitarian (dictatorship of the proletariat and all that bunk), but they are a vanishingly rare breed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 10:14 PM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There are of course differences in the presentations, but it is incorrect to state that the four foundations of mindfulness are absent in Mahāyāna, which was your contention above.

Astus said:
My points above were: 1. the four foundations of mindfulness is considered a hearer method, 2. the method taught within Mahayana is different from those in the sravakayana.

Malcolm wrote:
Obviously your first contention is wrong since the four foundations of mindfulness are found by that name in countless Mahāyāna sūtras.

Astus said:
So, I am not debating that there are various methods called four foundations of mindfulness in Mahayana, it's just that they are not identical to what one finds in Theravada.

Malcolm wrote:
Thervada is not the standard that defines them.

People studying Abhidharma in the Tibetan tradition practice them in the same manner.

Astus said:
I presume you mean the Kosha here, hence it is in the context of the Sarvastivada and Sautrantika teachings.

Malcolm wrote:
Any practice done with Mahāyāna motivation becomes a Mahāyāna practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 10:12 PM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The difference between the Tibetan and Sanskrit and the Kumarajiva, is that the Chinese translation stages that she transforms before the assembly:

Then the assembly there all saw the daughter of the nāga king instantly transform into a man,

The former state that she transformed her gender in "śāriputrasya pratyakṣaṃ", that is, in the direct perception of Śāriputra. How? By causing her female sexual organs to vanish [strīndriyamantarhitaṃ], and producing male sexual organs in their place [puruṣendriyaṃ ca prādurbhūtaṃ].

rory said:
Poor Malcolm doesn't get it

Malcolm wrote:
I was simple responding to your consistent misrepresentation of the tale of the nāgarāja's daughter. She did not attain buddhahood in a female form, no matter how much you insist that she did.

The rest of your post is therefore a non sequitur.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 8:14 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China
Content:


Fa Dao said:
never trust a guy with a beard

Grigoris said:
Bzzzzzzt... Irrelevant comparison. Try again.  Not all bearded guys support Holocausts and ethnic cleansing, racism, sexism, etc... Nor are all bearded guys responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of people... Fascists, on the other hand...

Fa Dao said:
hmmm...I dunno Greg...you do bear a striking resemblance to Castro...could be his little brother or cousin or something...and just for the sake of clarity, if you look closely I also have a beard and have been called a fascist on here many times....there just might be a correlation...enquiring minds want to know! the TRUTH is out there!

Malcolm wrote:
If you voted for Trump and are a fanboy of Bannon, than you are a fascist. If not...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 8:12 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Mahamudra main differences
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It is a symbol of kadag and lhundrup, Everything is included, even mahāmudra. Symbols are just symbols, but one can attain awakening using a symbol, as is clearly stated by Manjuśrīmitra.

PuerAzaelis said:
Is there really a difference between using it to proceed through the four “yogas” as opposed to just trying to find the mind?

PS: And then resting in that.


Malcolm wrote:
It is not an object of meditation. It is a symbol one uses to go beyond thought.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 6:25 AM
Title: Re: Morality of stockholding
Content:
Ricky said:
There is nothing immoral about owning stocks as long as they have nothing to do with guns or alcohol.

Josef said:
Owning shares of energy companies is wildly unethical and immoral in my opinion.

Ricky said:
According to buddhist morality:

"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

— AN 5.177

There's nothing about gas or oil.

Malcolm wrote:
It's here:
business in poison


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 6:18 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Mahamudra main differences
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It is a symbol that contains the entire meaning of the path of Dzogchen.

PuerAzaelis said:
Ok ... so when we read Tilopa, he says:

When you look into space, seeing stops. Likewise, when mind looks at mind, the flow of thinking stops and you come to the deepest awakening.

That sounds to me like it can’t apply to tigle in guru yoga bc ... well, there it is, it’s there. So white A must remain as ... a preliminary? The unfindability of mind has to be different from an image that ... I can find.

Apologies I am out of the kiddie pool without a diaper.

PS: And if the image is there it must be generic. I must have manufactured it. Bc - that’s all the mind can do. That’s clarity.


Malcolm wrote:
It is a symbol of kadag and lhundrup, Everything is included, even mahāmudra. Symbols are just symbols, but one can attain awakening using a symbol, as is clearly stated by Manjuśrīmitra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 5:55 AM
Title: Re: Morality of stockholding
Content:
Ricky said:
There is nothing immoral about owning stocks as long as they have nothing to do with guns or alcohol.

Josef said:
Owning shares of energy companies is wildly unethical and immoral in my opinion.

Malcolm wrote:
You mean oil and gas companies. Solar and wind, not unethical at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 5:36 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Mahamudra main differences
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
I’m a little out of touch these days - sutra versus tantric versus essence styles - is that a discussion in dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
No. Dzogchen is strictly part of secret mantra.

PuerAzaelis said:
Even in Semde. Ok. So out of curiosity in e.g. CNNR style, the tigle is considered to be - not a generic image?

Malcolm wrote:
It is a symbol that contains the entire meaning of the path of Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
narhwal90 said:
Bikkhu Bodi has a series on the Lotus Sutra on youtube, IIRC he concurs that the dragon king's daughter did not turn into a man before attaining enlightenment & views the "turn into a man" proposition as a cultural distortion not supported by the text.

Malcolm wrote:
It is precisely supported by the text:

sāgaranāgarājaduhitā sarvalokapratyakṣaṃ sthavirasya ca śāriputrasya pratyakṣaṃ tat strīndriyamantarhitaṃ puruṣendriyaṃ ca prādurbhūtaṃ bodhisattvabhūtaṃ cātmānaṃ saṃdarśayati|

The difference between the Tibetan and Sanskrit and the Kumarajiva, is that the Chinese translation stages that she transforms before the assembly:

Then the assembly there all saw the daughter of the nāga king instantly transform into a man,

The former state that she transformed her gender in "śāriputrasya pratyakṣaṃ", that is, in the direct perception of Śāriputra. How? By causing her female sexual organs to vanish [strīndriyamantarhitaṃ], and producing male sexual organs in their place [puruṣendriyaṃ ca prādurbhūtaṃ].


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: Preparation for Ordination in Nyingma
Content:
Dharmasherab said:
I am making this thread more on behalf of an online group and its potential members who would be Nyingma Buddhists rather than myself.

The questions is how to best prepare as a lay Buddhist in one’s practice prior to ordaining in the Nyingma school of Buddhism? I am aware that in Nyingma just like most forms of Tibetan Buddhism there is lay ordination (like Ngakpas and Naljormas)

Malcolm wrote:
There is no Ngakpas and Naljormas ordination.

Procedures for monastic ordination are identical in all four or five schools of Tibetan Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 4:18 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Mahamudra main differences
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
I’m a little out of touch these days - sutra versus tantric versus essence styles - is that a discussion in dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
No. Dzogchen is strictly part of secret mantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 1:16 AM
Title: Re: J. Stone's book on Original Enlightenment
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
the Yogācārabhūmi śāstra, the encyclopaedic and definitive text of the Yogacara school

Malcolm wrote:
This is by Asanga and (probably other authors).


Coëmgenu said:
the Mahāyānasūtrālamkārakārikā, which presents the Mahāyāna path from the Yogācāra perspective
the Dharmadharmatāvibhāga, a short Yogācāra work discussing the distinction and correlation (vibhāga) between phenomena (dharma) and reality (dharmatā)
the Madhyāntavibhāgakārikā, 112 verses that are a key work in Yogācāra philosophy
the Abhisamayalankara, which summarizes the Prajnaparamita sūtras, which the Mādhyamaka school regards as presenting the ultimate truth
the Ratnagotravibhāga, also known as the Uttāratantra śāstra, a compendium of the Buddha-nature literature

Malcolm wrote:
These are by Maitreyanatha.

Coëmgenu said:
Is the aforementioned Tathāgatagarbha-perspective śāstra/commentary one-and-the-same with the Uttāratantaśāstra here?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: J. Stone's book on Original Enlightenment
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
That's what I figured. It doesn't really seem to be a "school" in the sense of Yogācāra or Madhyamaka, or at least if it ever was, its distinctiveness is hard to find account of, other than the practice of naming Buddha-nature.


Malcolm wrote:
I think there is evidence it was a school in India, one to which there is a critical response in both Madhyamaka and Yogacāra sources (such as the Lanka).

It is my opinion that the Uttaratantra shows that it was a distinctive school. Given how much Indian literature was destroyed in the late 5th century by invasions, it is not surprising we have a limited view of Mahāyāna schools in India.

Coëmgenu said:
This is very interesting. I presume that they were not a 'sūtra-school' in the East Asian sense (most alleged 'sūtra-schools' aren't), how were they distinctive? I presume they held the Tathāgatagarbhasūtrāṇi in high regard, but why are they named after them? Are they the specific 'school'/'body'/'community' that preserved this specific Buddhavacana, the 'Tathāgatagarbha ones', and proliferated it over the course of the Great Vast-Expansion/Mahāvaipulya?

Malcolm wrote:
Mahāyāna schools in India were "doctrine" schools, that is, they followed the lead of esteemed commentators like Nāgārjuna and Maitreyanatha for guidance in how to understand the contents of whole classes of sūtras.

It may be the case that at one time there were sūtra schools, but we have no records of such movements.

Basically, Maitreyanath identified three main streams of Mahāyāna thought, Tathāgatagarbha, Prajñāpāramitā, and Yogacāra, and wrote independent commentaries on each main stream. He then synthesized these three streams in his Mahāyānasūtrālaṃkāra. I call this the Maitreyan synthesis, since it was the most radical thing in Mahāyāna since Nāgārjuna. It indelibly stamped how Mahāyāna was studied in Indian Universities after the 6th century; and after these treatises were introduced to Tibet are the major source of controversy in Tibetan Buddhism.

It appears that in India the Uttaratantra received very little attention in India. The most attention was paid to the Abhisamayālaṃkāra, since it treated the Prajñāpāramitā, and proposed to unpack the stages of the path that were present in a hidden form within the Prajñāpāramitā sūtras. There is a rich commentarial tradition of debate between Madhyamaka and Yogacāra authors about this text.

Thus, in Tibetan Buddhism, there are three main controversies: 1) how are we to understand the Uttaratantra— is it definitive or provisional; 2) how are we to understand differences among various Indian Madhyamakas, the so-called prasanga/svatantra controversy; and 3) how are we to understand the three natures theory of the Yogacārins.

The texts which are followed in a manner similar to East Asian Buddhists are the tantras: the main exegetical tantra of both the Sakya and Kagyu school is the Hevajra Tantra and its commentaries; the Gelugpas base their exegesis of Vajrayāna on Guhyasamaja, the Nyingmapas on the Guhyagarbha (which can be classified as a tathāgatagarbha influenced text), and the Jonangpas base themselves on the Kalācakra Tantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 13th, 2017 at 12:00 AM
Title: Re: J. Stone's book on Original Enlightenment
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
Are there any examples of a work or thinker who is specifically and only/strictly "of the Tathāgatagarbha school " though? One who is not also a Madhyamaka or Yogācāra thinker? I only ask out of my own ignorance on the subject.

Malcolm wrote:
There are the ten Tathāgatagarbha sūtras, and the Uttaratantra. Apart from that, not really.

Coëmgenu said:
That's what I figured. It doesn't really seem to be a "school" in the sense of Yogācāra or Madhyamaka, or at least if it ever was, its distinctiveness is hard to find account of, other than the practice of naming Buddha-nature.


Malcolm wrote:
I think there is evidence it was a school in India, one to which there is a critical response in both Madhyamaka and Yogacāra sources (such as the Lanka).

It is my opinion that the Uttaratantra shows that it was a distinctive school. Given how much Indian literature was destroyed in the late 5th century by invasions, it is not surprising we have a limited view of Mahāyāna schools in India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Billionaire plans to change China
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
He has a 3 year timetable to bring the rule of law & freedom to China:

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/billionaire-guo-wengui-wants-regime-change-beijing-034446185.html
Guo said he has met ten times with Bannon, the one-time Goldman Sachs investment banker and head of influential ultraconservative outlet Breitbart News and that they have discussed his new platform, which he did not describe in detail.

Malcolm wrote:
Bannon is a fascist who actively promotes those who molest underage women.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 11:17 PM
Title: Re: J. Stone's book on Original Enlightenment
Content:


ItsRaining said:
I think her language is suggesting that Tathagatagarbha formed a separate tradition beside that of the Yogacara in China (A few people like Zongmi and Chengguan classified it as such) not that Buddha Nature arose in China.


Malcolm wrote:
Tathāgatagarbha was a separate tradition from Madhyamaka and Yogacāra in India; thus there is no reason why it should not have been introduced to China as an independent tradition as well, prior to the Maitreyan synthesis.

Coëmgenu said:
Are there any examples of a work or thinker who is specifically and only/strictly "of the Tathāgatagarbha school " though? One who is not also a Madhyamaka or Yogācāra thinker? I only ask out of my own ignorance on the subject.


Malcolm wrote:
There are the ten Tathāgatagarbha sūtras, and the Uttaratantra. Apart from that, not really.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 11:16 PM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No, the four foundations of mindfulness are found throughout all Buddhadharma.

Astus said:
And the four noble truths are not? Also, do you know a Mahayana tradition that actually practises what is written in the Satipatthana Sutta?

Malcolm wrote:
People studying Abhidharma in the Tibetan tradition practice them in the same manner.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There are far more sources for the four foundations of mindfulness than that sutta. Mahāyāna is very rich with them.

Astus said:
The question still remains: who practises them? Also, what constitutes a "Mahayana smrtyupasthana" is not the same as in Theravada. Hence it is neither practised nor accepted because it is viewed as a sravaka method.

Malcolm wrote:
There are of course differences in the presentations, but it is incorrect to state that the four foundations of mindfulness are absent in Mahāyāna, which was your contention above.

For example, the Akṣayamatinirdeśa explains:

Furthermore, the meditation of the four close placement of mindfulness of bodhisattvas is not concluded. If it is what are the four, it is like this: the close placement of mindfulness of scrutinizing the body in the body, the close placement of mindfulness of scrutinizing sensations in sensations, the close placement of mindfulness of scrutinizing the mind in the mind, and the close placement of mindfulness of scrutinizing the phenomena in the phenomena. What is the bodhisattva's close placement of mindfulness of scrutinizing the body in the body? If asked about the bodhisattva's scrutinizing and dwelling on the body in the body, it is scrutinizing and dwelling on his own and other bodies: considering the prior limit of the body, considered the posterior limit of the body, also considering how the body arises in the present, that is, "Alas, the body arises from error, is formed by cause and condition, lacks sensation, lacks agency, lacks an owner, is not property, and is produced by causes and conditions. In this way, for example, it is like the grass outside, a branch of a tree, its sap, and a forest, these are all produced by cause and condition, lack sensation, lack agency, lack an owner, and are not property. In the same way, this body is like a grass, a branch of a tree, sap, a forest, trees, walls, or an optical illusion. That which is grasped by aggregates, sense elements, and sense bases lacks sensation, lacks agency, lacks an owner, is not property, and it empty of phenomena of I, mine, permanence, stability, perpetuity, immovability, invulnerability, and immutablity. There is nothing that to be taken as mine in this body, however, this body that lacks an essential self will attain the essence, samyaksambodhi [...]

It continues for a couple of pages — the point being is that it is incorrect to assert that Mahāyāna lacks the four foundations of mindfulness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 10:30 PM
Title: Re: J. Stone's book on Original Enlightenment
Content:


ItsRaining said:
I think her language is suggesting that Tathagatagarbha formed a separate tradition beside that of the Yogacara in China (A few people like Zongmi and Chengguan classified it as such) not that Buddha Nature arose in China.


Malcolm wrote:
Tathāgatagarbha was a separate tradition from Madhyamaka and Yogacāra in India; thus there is no reason why it should not have been introduced to China as an independent tradition as well, prior to the Maitreyan synthesis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 7:27 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No, the four foundations of mindfulness are found throughout all Buddhadharma.

Astus said:
And the four noble truths are not? Also, do you know a Mahayana tradition that actually practises what is written in the Satipatthana Sutta? However, even if the four foundations of mindfulness are discussed, it is differentiated from the sravakayana version, or simply reinterpreted.

Malcolm wrote:
There are far more sources for the four foundations of mindfulness than that sutta. Mahāyāna is very rich with them.

You should learn one of the primary Buddhist languages, then you can search on and read these things for yourself rather that relying the limited perspectives of scholars and their translations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 7:25 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
... it is pointless to discuss this issue with someone who holds a physicalist perspective ...

PuerAzaelis said:
A "physicalist perspective" is not the proper way to engage with the argument ... that matter cannot produce mind.

Is that ... more or less correct?

PS: Just to re-cap, I made the assertion that rebirth cannot be proven inductively, and has to be accepted on faith. You seemed to challenge that, by making Dharmakirti's argument, that since mind and matter are different, matter cannot produce mind. You're now saying that his point of view can't legitimately be discussed by ... I assume, materialists? I.e. an argument that matter doesn't produce mind can't be addressed by a point of view that states that ... matter produces mind?


Malcolm wrote:
It can be inductively proven, however, there needs to be a common basis of departure: physicalists and Buddhists do not have that common basis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 5:13 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
By whom?

Astus said:
By those who say that the sravakayana is the four noble truths.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the four foundations of mindfulness are found throughout all Buddhadharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 4:59 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
However, from where does the mind arise at the first moment of conception? If it is restricted to this life, your examples fail because at this point there are no senses and no sense organs.

PuerAzaelis said:
Why is that so?

Consciousness was not switched on, like a light switch, it developed gradually as my body grew, in my mother's womb, and after I was born.

If I take away the atoms of my brain, atom by atom, slowly my consciousness will fade until it's not there.

It won't suddenly disappear, like a light going out.

There's no "first moment of conception" of consciousness any more than there is a "first moment of tree" from a seed.

PS: There's no more reason to think that when I remove the final atoms of my brain 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... a "next mind" suddenly is somehow produced somewhere any more than when the atoms of the brain of a fetus accumulate 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... then consciousness suddenly is produced from a "previous mind".

Malcolm wrote:
Dharmakirti's heuristic indicates it is pointless to discuss this issue with someone who holds a physicalist perspective, such as Carvakas/Lokayatis. His heuristic is not meant to convince materialists to abandon their views. His heuristic is aimed at eternalists who adhere to a view of a permanent self.

Thus, if you actually think your consciousness arises from your body, there really is no point for you to study Buddhism at all. Not only are you wasting your time, you are wasting the time of others by seeking to engage in them in something in which you have no confidence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: HHST Yamantaka initiation 2018
Content:
Dranyen said:
Hi- Can anyone advise on what form of Yamantaka this is?

I have reached out to the hosting center to ask, but haven’t heard back.

Thanks!

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrabhairava,


conebeckham said:
13 deity?  Solitary?  Mal Luk?

I know Sakyas maintain many lineages of VajraBhairava......

Malcolm wrote:
It will either be Mal lug or Rwa Lug.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 4:17 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:


CedarTree said:
We are talking about reality.

Malcolm wrote:
No, we are talking about conventional truth. In ultimate truth, there is no birth, no death, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 4:16 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
... mind cannot arise from the four elements, since matter and mind are different kinds of substance (dravya), and just as material entities of different continua cannot arise from one another, i.e. corn cannot grow from wheat seeds, likewise, matter cannot produce mind nor can mind arise from matter.

PuerAzaelis said:
When I lift my arm, my arm lifts.

When I see a red object, I have a red percept.

When I touch a hot stove, I feel pain.

Matter and mind dependently produce each other.

This is contact - the red percept only occurs when there is a red object as a basis of imputation, utilizing a sense organ.

Since they interact, Dharmakirti's assertion that mind can only be caused by a previous mind, is false.

Malcolm wrote:
These examples you provide do not negate Dharmakīrti's proof. Why? You have selected the wrong negandum.

We are talking about rebirth, not sense consciousness. In other words we are talking about the link, consciousness, not the link, sensation.

Dharmakīrti will happily agree that a a direct perception of blue requires a blue object. However, from where does the mind arise at the first moment of conception? If it is restricted to this life, your examples fail because at this point there are no senses and no sense organs. There is only namarūpa. The point Dharnakīrti is driving home is that one has to decide if consciousness is something that arises from the body or not. If consciousness is only something that arises through physical contact, then this also eliminates mental consciousness, since a mental consciousness by definition takes a mental object as a sense base and arises on the basis of contact with that.

If we follow your example, there are only ten ayatanas, fifteen dhātus, or one skandha.

If however one decides that the consciousness is not produced by the body, then consciousness requires another cause that is not the body.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 3:37 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:


CedarTree said:
I think a lot of that is meta premised still in dualism.

Malcolm wrote:
And dualism is a problem because?


CedarTree said:
But I was just kind of getting at in general that that kind of proof in a university higher level philosophy of mind class would not be well accepted.

That's before even going into Philosophy of language and how these could be problems made up by terms and their mis application.

Malcolm wrote:
And this is relevant to the discussion of rebirth exactly how?

CedarTree said:
Lol come on Malcolm.

Malcolm wrote:
We understand the terms, and in any case, what the Dennets, Nagles, and Searles think about consciousness is pretty irrelevant to Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 3:31 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:


CedarTree said:
I think a lot of that is meta premised still in dualism.

Malcolm wrote:
And dualism is a problem because?


CedarTree said:
But I was just kind of getting at in general that that kind of proof in a university higher level philosophy of mind class would not be well accepted.

That's before even going into Philosophy of language and how these could be problems made up by terms and their mis application.

Malcolm wrote:
And this is relevant to the discussion of rebirth exactly how?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 3:18 AM
Title: Re: HHST Yamantaka initiation 2018
Content:
Dranyen said:
Hi- Can anyone advise on what form of Yamantaka this is?

I have reached out to the hosting center to ask, but haven’t heard back.

Thanks!

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrabhairava,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
Fine.

Malcolm, you re-state Dharmakirti's argument as follows:

Malcolm wrote:
All conditioned things have causes. Mind, being conditioned, has a cause. If mind has a material cause it must come from the body.
If mind does not have a material cause it must have a nonmaterial cause.
If the mind has a nonmaterial cause it must be conditioned, since the unconditioned has no causal action.
The only nonmaterial thing that can cause mind is mind.
Since mind streams are unique and independent, this present moment of mind must have as its cause a previous moment of mind.
Since the mind does not arise from matter, then, this life's first moment of consciousness at conception must have its cause in a previous moment of mind prior to conception.

PuerAzaelis said:
This cannot be his full argument, since there is no premise or argument that shows that the mind does not arise from matter.

Malcolm wrote:
I did not say it was his full argument. I stated it was his heuristic.

Basically, the argument that mind cannot arise from matter is that mind cannot arise from the four elements, since matter and mind are different kinds of substance (dravya), and just as material entities of different continua cannot arise from one another, i.e. corn cannot grow from wheat seeds, likewise, matter cannot produce mind nor can mind arise from matter.

When the Buddha grouped phenomena, he did so into six distinct dhātus; solids (earth), liquids (water), gases (air), heat (fire), space, and consciousness.

Four of these dhātus are material, two are nonmaterial. They are all nevertheless "substances." (dravya).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 2:44 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Please try.

PuerAzaelis said:
No. But since I trust you, and I know you wuv me, I'll take it on faith for now.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 2:40 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
In other words, acceptance of rebirth by that practitioner is not the result of a reasoning process.

Malcolm wrote:
The old Dharmakīrti heuristic

All conditioned things have causes. Mind, being conditioned, has a cause. If mind has a material cause it must come from the body.
If mind does not have a material cause it must have a nonmaterial cause.
If the mind has a nonmaterial cause it must be conditioned, since the unconditioned has no causal action.
The only nonmaterial thing that can cause mind is mind.
Since mind streams are unique and independent, this present moment of mind must have as its cause a previous moment of mind.
Since the mind does not arise from matter, then, this life's first moment of consciousness at conception must have its cause in a previous moment of mind prior to conception.

Some people instinctively accept rebirth. For them, this chain of reasoning is superfluous.


CedarTree said:
I've studied a bit of philosophy of mind and I think this is kind of weak.


Malcolm wrote:
Because?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The only nonmaterial thing that can cause mind is mind.

PuerAzaelis said:
Shockingly, the old Dharmakirti heuristic appears to have the same issues as the old Descartes heuristic.

I could poke as many holes in this as I could with Aquinas' "proofs" for the existence of God.


Malcolm wrote:
Please try. You make a lot of assertions, but offer up nothing in terms of proofs and reasonings. Get serious or get along.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 2:08 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
In other words, acceptance of rebirth by that practitioner is not the result of a reasoning process.

Malcolm wrote:
The old Dharmakīrti heuristic

All conditioned things have causes. Mind, being conditioned, has a cause. If mind has a material cause it must come from the body.
If mind does not have a material cause it must have a nonmaterial cause.
If the mind has a nonmaterial cause it must be conditioned, since the unconditioned has no causal action.
The only nonmaterial thing that can cause mind is mind.
Since mind streams are unique and independent, this present moment of mind must have as its cause a previous moment of mind.
Since the mind does not arise from matter, then, this life's first moment of consciousness at conception must have its cause in a previous moment of mind prior to conception.

Some people instinctively accept rebirth. For them, this chain of reasoning is superfluous.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 1:56 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
Are you saying that proving rebirth via induction is not only possible to do for a beginning practitioner, but necessary?

Malcolm wrote:
Of course. What would be the point of wanting to attain buddhahood unless one wants to be free of birth? If one does not accept rebirth, there is no need for Buddhadharma at all.

Rebirth is central existential problem the Buddha wanted to solve.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 1:47 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Matylda said:
Well, if you will become a zen master, then you will understand the real meaning of above quotations.

Malcolm wrote:
Pretty sure Astus considers himself a Zen master already.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 1:46 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:


Astus said:
The smrtyupasthana is considered mainly a sravakayana method.


Malcolm wrote:
By whom?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 1:45 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
Yes, and I'd go further.

If someone is incapable of placing some degree of irrational faith in some flying pink hippo (such as god, free will, immortality, etc), in some variant, consequently the only strictly logical alternatives are either "let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die" or gun-in-the-mouth.

I.e., hedonism or despair. Attraction or aversion.

Malcolm wrote:
This is too extreme.

PuerAzaelis said:
Ok ... in what way?


Malcolm wrote:
Your statement is premised on the acceptance of the irrational, but you have not shown that accepting rebirth is irrational.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 1:30 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
People who do not accept rebirth are utterly wasting their time studying and practicing Buddhadharma. There is no point to it. If you want to be a "better" person, or have less anxiety, etc., you don't need Buddhism at all.

PuerAzaelis said:
Yes, and I'd go further.

If someone is incapable of placing some degree of irrational faith in some flying pink hippo (such as god, free will, immortality, etc), in some variant, consequently the only strictly logical alternatives are either "let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die" or gun-in-the-mouth.

I.e., hedonism or despair. Attraction or aversion.

Malcolm wrote:
This is too extreme.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 12:56 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Do we really hold the mistaken cognitions of ordinary people to be the standard of truth?

PuerAzaelis said:
Is it really necessary to build a CERN Large Hadron Collider in my basement in order to convince myself that the Higgs boson particle exists before I start learning about chemistry?

Malcolm wrote:
In terms of ascertaining rebirth in direct perception, it is necessary to develop the five abhijñas so that one can personally verify rebirth through one's own experience. Even those these abhijñās are mundane, they are not ordinary in the sense that while they are faculties anyone can develop through cultivating samadhi, few people do.

If one wishes to even start practicing Buddhadharma, it is a good idea to have an understanding of the what existential problem Buddhism presents (affliction-driven rebirth) and its solution to that problem.

People who do not accept rebirth are utterly wasting their time studying and practicing Buddhadharma. There is no point to it. If you want to be a "better" person, or have less anxiety, etc., you don't need Buddhism at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 12th, 2017 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
It cannot be demonstrated either empirically or logically.

Malcolm wrote:
See Dharmakirti, he shows rebirth is true via logic. It is not demonstrable empirically because ordinary people do not have a means of cognition available to them with which they may verify it.

PuerAzaelis said:
Yes unfortunately I don't subscribe to Gnostic Elite Weekly. I prefer Cat Fancy.


Malcolm wrote:
Do we really hold the mistaken cognitions of ordinary people to be the standard of truth?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 11th, 2017 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: Is there Buddhism without rebirth?
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
It cannot be demonstrated either empirically or logically.

Malcolm wrote:
See Dharmakirti, he shows rebirth is true via logic. It is not demonstrable empirically because ordinary people do not have a means of cognition available to them with which they may verify it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 11th, 2017 at 5:53 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
illarraza said:
There are various teaching methods employed by the Buddha in the Lotus Sutra...

Malcolm wrote:
Teaching methods are methods used by someone to explain something. Methods of attaining awakening in common Mahāyāna are restricted to the six perfections.

The six perfections take a long time to complete, birth after birth, life after life.

As I said, the Saddharmapundarika does not teach a unique path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 11th, 2017 at 5:45 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


illarraza said:
Our teachers are Shakyamuni Buddha of the Juryo Chapter of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin, teachers without peer.

Mark

Malcolm wrote:
In this sūtra, including the chapter you mention, there is no actual method demonstrated for an ordinary person to attain buddhahood in a single lifetime.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 11th, 2017 at 3:40 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:
Punya said:
Thanks Malcolm. I figured that surrender would be the word you would have difficulty with. It does seem to equate with complete trust in this context, but it is a term more open to being misconstrued.

Malcolm wrote:
The only surrender a student has to make is to surrender the idea that they can extricate themselves from samsara without the intimate instructions of a qualified guru.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 11th, 2017 at 2:58 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Ricky said:
Buddhas having the ability to take someone out of samsara by reciting that particular buddha's name?

Malcolm wrote:
If someone with full faith recites Amitabha's name, they will take rebirth in Sukhavati. But it is still a slow path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 11th, 2017 at 2:56 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Sakya Pandita states:

"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.

In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.


PeterC said:
Malcolm - where can we find this passage - I was looking for it in clear differentiation of the three vows but couldn't locate it, suspect I'm looking in the wrong text.  Thanks


Malcolm wrote:
It is in a short text in Sapan's collected works, but TBRC is down right now so I cannot provide the link.
https://www.tbrc.org/#library_work_ViewByOutline-O01CT00264CZ122099%7CW22271


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 11th, 2017 at 2:23 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:
Punya said:
Being a sycophant is unhealthy, but on the other hand each of us needs to continually examine whether the autonomy we seek is actually driven by ego.

Malcolm wrote:
The point of being a guru is to help sentient beings discover freedom. The point of being a guru is not to have sentient beings surrender themselves to you.

Ordinary sentient beings need help, this is why we have teachers for everything we do.

Punya said:
So does the term "lote lingkyur" exist in Tibetan and if so, how would you translate / understand it?


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, blo gtad ling bskyur is a real Tibetan term. It means "complete trust." One has to have complete trust in one's guru. For example, I completely trust ChNN. But I do not think this trust is something which is given as a concept. It is something which takes time to develop.

The issue before us is whether or not a guru can violate that trust. Some literalists will say no, it is not possible. I think it is possible and happens quite a bit, actually, especially to women. Then there is the the sticky point of when one has genuinely entered into a true relationship with a guru, at what point does this occur? I don't think this necessarily happens just because one has received an empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 11th, 2017 at 1:58 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
With respect to Avalokiteśvara (Kanon), of course Avalokiteśvara can manifest in any of the six lokas and bring solace to sentient beings in those realms. But no one can liberate anyone from any thing. Liberation is won by one's own effort alone. No one can practice the path for you.

liuzg150181 said:
Wait,you mean Tibetan Buddhism rejects 'other-power',even when Pure Land practice is concerned?

Malcolm wrote:
That depends on what you mean  by "other-power." But from a Pure Land POV, TB is definitely a jiriki system, like Shingon, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 11th, 2017 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
rory said:
DGA, the entire point of Prof. Nattier's article is the Thubten the Tibetan Buddhist monk was appalled that the Lotus Sutra contradicted everything he was taught.

Malcolm wrote:
Professor Nattier does not actually specify just what is was that Thubten the monk found challenging. She actually does not know, so she guesses:
Rather, in the Lotusthe very idea of a path is radically undermined. Instead, practice is fulfilled by accepting, in all humility, Shakyamuni’s word that through faith one will attain Buddhahood in the future. As the closing lines of chapter 2 of the sutra put it, “Have no further doubts; rejoice greatly in your hearts, knowing that you will become Buddhas.”

It is this, I suspect, that was the primary cause of Thubten’s consternation. Although Tibetan Buddhism has largely jettisoned arhatship as a valid goal, it has maintained a strong commitment to the notion of spiritual cultivation. To hear the Buddha proclaim that every practitioner is destined for Buddhahood—even those who, like the legendary betrayer of the dharma, Devadatta, are guilty of heinous crimes—would seem to subvert the very foundation of the long and demanding practice of the bodhisattva path.
Such a statement does not undermine the need for a long and strenuous path, it is in fact a remedy for some Hinayāna notions that to attain buddhahood as a buddha, one must be a bodhisattva specifically predicted by a Buddha such as Dipaṃkara Buddha (as in the case of Śākyamuni himself in a past life) and so on. So here, in the Lotus, the Buddha is predicting all sentient beings for eventual buddhahood.

This is not even slightly controversial in Tibetan Buddhism (not that you will pay attention to a single word I say). For example, Master Sonam Tsemo states:

The fourth is the position of some masters among the followers of the Saddharmapundarika-sūtra.

That is, that there is a single result for the three paths, citing the parable of the burning house. The idea of Ekayāna is noncontroversial in Tibetan Buddhism.

When there is an analysis of vehicles it is from the point of view of inclination, not from the point of view of the result. There is only one result.

rory said:
The buddhanature of Devadatta is no different than my buddhanature  or that of my cat or that of the Buddha.
This is the great Dharma that I and so many follow.

Malcolm wrote:
This idea of tathāgatagarbha simply is not unique to the Tien tai no matter what you may think.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 10th, 2017 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
rory said:
You don't have to be born as a human, specifically as a human male to reach liberation.

Malcolm wrote:
In order to attain buddhahood, one must be born a human being with eight freedoms and ten endowments.

One cannot attain buddhahood if one is born in any other condition— hell being, preta, animal, asura, or deva, or even a human being who is lacking the eight freedoms and ten endowments.

So for example, in the nāgā princess story of which you are so fond, the nāgā princess was already a ārya bodhisattva abiding on the bodhisattva stages.

With respect to Avalokiteśvara (Kanon), of course Avalokiteśvara can manifest in any of the six lokas and bring solace to sentient beings in those realms. But no one can liberate anyone from any thing. Liberation is won by one's own effort alone. No one can practice the path for you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 10th, 2017 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:
Punya said:
Being a sycophant is unhealthy, but on the other hand each of us needs to continually examine whether the autonomy we seek is actually driven by ego.

Malcolm wrote:
The point of being a guru is to help sentient beings discover freedom. The point of being a guru is not to have sentient beings surrender themselves to you.

Ordinary sentient beings need help, this is why we have teachers for everything we do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 10th, 2017 at 11:22 PM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:


diamind said:
Do you mean to say when the guru is unqualified?    things become unhealthy?

Malcolm wrote:
When they harm their students for their own benefit, or if they give an empowerment which they have not themselves received, etc., this renders a guru "unqualified."

ChNN tells a story about a cat guru who had a lot of mice disciples...you know how the story ends.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 10th, 2017 at 11:19 PM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:


diamind said:
CTR is supreme!

"An example of Padmasambhva’s acting as a father figure for Tibet was the warning that he gave King Trisong Detsen.  The New Years celebration was about to be held, which traditionally included horse racing and archery, among the other events.  Padmasambhava said,  “there shouldn’t be horse racing or archery this time.” But no one listened and the King was killed by the arrow of an unknown assassin at the of the horse racing and archery " CTR

So much for autonomy.

Malcolm wrote:
This didn't happen. In other words, Trisrong Detsen was not killed by an arrow, an assassin's or otherwise.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 10th, 2017 at 11:14 PM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:



diamind said:
No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing?  The one that critics the guru?  Sorry haven't heard of that one yet.  Must be new.  Good luck with that.

Malcolm wrote:
Sakya Pandita states:

"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.

In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.


PeterC said:
Malcolm - where can we find this passage - I was looking for it in clear differentiation of the three vows but couldn't locate it, suspect I'm looking in the wrong text.  Thanks


Malcolm wrote:
It is in a short text in Sapan's collected works, but TBRC is down right now so I cannot provide the link.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 10th, 2017 at 9:20 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
illarraza said:
Slow and laborious like a horse and buggy (your Buddhism). Quick and svelt like a Concorde jet (the Lotus Sutra Buddhism of Nichiren).

Malcolm wrote:
Puffery is found in all lineages.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 10th, 2017 at 9:19 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
rory said:
If an eleven year old Dragon girl, can instantly transform into a Buddha the possiblity it open to all. Especially without lifetime after lifetime of practices to purge our bad karma.

Malcolm wrote:
The eleven year old nāgā princess was already an eighth stage bodhisattva, not an ordinary sentient being. In other words, she had already attained the path of seeing. And in fact she does transform into a male from prior to attaining buddhahood.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 9th, 2017 at 5:05 AM
Title: Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US
Content:
Queequeg said:
MeToo makes me happy for my daughter. Happy to an extent for my son, but also concerned for how the backlash against boys just got another round of ammo.

Malcolm wrote:
Just tell him to keep his hands to himself and his head down.

Ricky said:
Why stop there? How about castration of all boys? That should be the next logical step.


Malcolm wrote:
Really?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 9th, 2017 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:



diamind said:
So some behaviour of the guru is unacceptable, while some is acceptable?  But wouldn't that contradict the foundation of Buddha Dharma?

Vajrayana is extremely dangerous in that regard.


Malcolm wrote:
It does not contradict anything. And Vajrayāna is only dangerous for blind fools who leave their brains along with their shoes at the temple door.

diamind said:
Trouble is people don't have brains, therefore by default vajrayana is dangerous.



Malcolm wrote:
Pretty grim view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 10:52 PM
Title: Re: The Only Capitol of Israel
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
Thankful to all for pointing out flaws regarding this thread (and my other personal failings).

But no one has mentioned the biggest blunder - using the wrong Capitol for the title of this thread - should be Capital.

Malcolm wrote:
We are all too old for spelling flames...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 10:32 PM
Title: Re: Colorado Nyingma Centers
Content:



Virgo said:
It seems like a very important land.

Kevin

Malcolm wrote:
Tara Mandala is a true beyul.

Virgo said:
Have you been there before Malcolm?

Kevin


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I was there for a couple of weeks last summer.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 10:15 PM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Queequeg said:
If there is a conflict between Sutta/Sutra and Abhidhamma/Abhidarma, are you telling me the latter is authoritative? The teaching derivative of the Buddha's Pure and Far Reaching Voice, not the Voice itself?


Malcolm wrote:
You should not conflate Abhidhamma with Abhidharma.

Queequeg said:
According to tradition, the essence of the Abhidhamma was formulated by the Buddha during the fourth week after his Enlightenment.[1] Seven years later he is said to have spent three consecutive months preaching it in its entirety in one of the deva realms, before an audience of thousands of devas (including his late mother, the former Queen Maya), each day briefly commuting back to the human realm to convey to Ven. Sariputta the essence of what he had just taught.[2] Sariputta mastered the Abhidhamma and codified it into roughly its present form. Although parts of the Abhidhamma were recited at the earlier Buddhist Councils, it wasn't until the Third Council (ca. 250 BCE) that it became fixed into its present form as the third and final Pitaka of the canon.[3]

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/tipitaka/abhi/index.html

Abhidhamma is indeed held to be direct Buddhavacana.

Abhidharma is not, which is why we has a system of tenets.

Abhidharma is held to be the advanced discussion of arhats concerning the detailed and advanced points of the Agamas, Vinaya, etc. In Abhidharma, it is generally considered that the Sautrantikas are more authoritative than the Vaibhashikas because the Sautrantikas hold up Vaibhashika tenets to scrutiny viz. the Agamic sūtras.

Even so, "Abhidharma" still means "higher dharma." Everyone should study Abhidharma. If they did, it would end a lot of senseless conversations and prevent myriads more.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 10:07 PM
Title: Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?
Content:
Motova said:
What does one have to memorize?

What texts does one need to be familiar with?

What tasks does one have to complete?

Thank you.

Malcolm wrote:
The term khenpo (upādhyāya) actually refers to someone who can ordain monks.

Westerners have misunderstood the term to mean "professor."

A lay teacher is technically slop dpon, not a mkhan po. Some people who have graduated from shedras, monastic colleges, have kept the title, even though when they gave up their monastic vows the title no longer accurately applies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 6:42 AM
Title: Re: Colorado Nyingma Centers
Content:


Mr. G said:
There's also a nice stupa devoted to Nyala Pema Duddul that was consecrated by ChNN.

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=8374#p121379

Virgo said:
It seems like a very important land.

Kevin

Malcolm wrote:
Tara Mandala is a true beyul.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 6:40 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Queequeg said:
Abhidhamma/Abhidharma is derivative of the Sutta/Sutra.

Malcolm wrote:
Abhidharma is called "abhi" because it is higher and more advanced. For example, Dzogchen can be classified as part of Abhidharma, and there are texts which do so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 6:37 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
"Tertons are always challenging to people because they often act unconventionally.

Malcolm wrote:
I have had the extreme good fortune of being the disciple of three great tertons. None of them behaved in any strange way. And, they could not be kinder human beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 6:36 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:



diamind said:
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, because rinpoches are infallible by definition and they don't shit anything but sunshine and unicorns.

Sonam Wangchug said:
It all depends on the level of your purification and realization.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup.

What you are talking about is a bunch of conceptual proliferation which labels this and that as "pure" as opposed to "impure," "sublime," as opposed to "ordinary."

These are just white and black clouds in the sky. But they don't affect the sky at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 6:09 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
However, what you call "special" is relative. HH the gyalwang drukpa has said, it's in fact not miraculous that Milarepa would fly around, what is more miraculous is that we are not able to fly.

Malcolm wrote:
And Tulku Orgyen said there is no point since we have airplanes now.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 6:06 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:



diamind said:
No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing?  The one that critics the guru?  Sorry haven't heard of that one yet.  Must be new.  Good luck with that.

Malcolm wrote:
Sakya Pandita states:

"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.

In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.

Sonam Wangchug said:
Since you are quoting from a Sakya master, it might be helpful to consider the perspective of the current head of the Sakya tradition.

Malcolm wrote:
What HHST says is perfect, but your citing it here is beside the point, because he is not contradicting Sakya Pandita, whose small commentary on samaya is quoted universally by everyone in all four schools as authoritative.

In order to have committed the downfall of criticizing a qualified master, one has to go the extreme mentioned by Sapan. The point of mentioning these things is not to encourage people to go around criticizing their gurus. The point of mentioned such things is to relieve people of the anxiety of thinking they have broken samaya merely because they may have uttered a critical word about their gurus in an unguarded moment of affliction. Sapan makes it very clear that such afflicted speech does not constitute a root downfall. A root downfall only occurs if one denies that one's qualified guru is actually a qualified guru. That is what "criticism" ( brnyas pa ) means.

Now then, in these kinds of discussions is best to keep ones remarks relevant to the topic at hand.

Secondly, In fact, there is no actual samaya to regard to one's root guru as a perfect being (though it is recommended that it is best if one can). Good thing too, since if there was such a samaya, no one would be able to keep samaya at all.

And of course, since in reality virtually no one can maintain this kind of pure conceptual perception, we do not, in general, practice guru yoga with the ordinary form of our guru, we visualize them in the form of a Buddha such as Vajradhāra, or Guru Rinpoche, etc. Why? Because it is recognized maintaining pure perception of our root guru is in fact difficult, and not easy, and for beginners, impossible.

Also, in the Nyingma tradition, minor criticism of one's root guru does not result in a downfall either. Merely having an afflictive verbal response to something the guru does or says simply does not qualify as a downfall.

Finally, the whole point of practicing Dharma is to overcome afflictions. Sometimes our gurus behave strangely. Of course we have to learn to be flexible and not immediately decide we have made a poor choice in gurus and move on. Nevertheless, if while sincerely following a teacher we are overcome with affliction and voice our critical displeasure at this or that thing our guru does, this does not constitute a downfall; and whatever verbal nonvirtue we may have incurred as a result of some minor criticism we may make of our guru is easily rectified —— this is why we have so many methods of purification, from Vajrasattva to the completion stage (yes, this is the best way to purify all downfalls — look it up).

So, when you experience that knee-jerk reflex to go off on something you see that I have said on the forum, think twice about what I have said before you go posting irrelevant rebuttals to things I have not said.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 4:34 AM
Title: Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US
Content:
Queequeg said:
MeToo makes me happy for my daughter. Happy to an extent for my son, but also concerned for how the backlash against boys just got another round of ammo.

Malcolm wrote:
Just tell him to keep his hands to himself and his head down.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 4:23 AM
Title: Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US
Content:


DGA said:
When I say he blew it, I mean that he didn't leverage his moment in the spotlight as strategically as he could have.  He came off as frazzled and put-upon.


Malcolm wrote:
Oh, you mean he came off as he actually was. I agree.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 4:23 AM
Title: Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US
Content:


Ricky said:
Nobody wants to blame the sexual revolution of the 60s for this grotesqueness?

Malcolm wrote:
Absolutely not. It was much worse for women in the 1960's and before. Before the 1960's, if husband beat his wife and kids, no one would interfere, not the cops, not the courts, and not the schools. Moreover, male infidelity was considered normal. Patting women in the ass, making lewd comments at work, etc., were all commonplace, not exceptions, and certainly no one would have been fired for what people are being dismissed for today.

Moreover, the sexual revolution was not a revolution at all in terms of how women were treated. The "revolution," such as it was, was that men were able to have sex with women without major fear of pregnancy. But "sexual revolution" merely exposed how one sided things were for women. Thus, women, taking a clue from the civil rights movement, started the feminist movement. Sadly, Europe is still very backwards when it comes to women's rights. This is why Buddhist teachers who like assaulting women avoid the US.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 4:04 AM
Title: Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US
Content:


Queequeg said:
I don't think there is a society without sexual harassment.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because patriarchy is embedded in every society in the world. The basis of patriarchy is the exploitation of women, economically, politically, and sexually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 4:03 AM
Title: Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US
Content:


DGA said:
Franken blew it today, by the way.

Malcolm wrote:
He had no choice. His statement was correct:
I, of all people, am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of the sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party.
The GOP has basically decided they don't care how awful a person one might be, they just care that one says and votes the way they want one to say and vote. As long as one goes along with their program, one can be an accused rapist (Trump) or pedophile (Moore) and still get elected. The GOP has abandoned anything like a moral standing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 3:27 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:



diamind said:
No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing?  The one that critics the guru?  Sorry haven't heard of that one yet.  Must be new.  Good luck with that.

Malcolm wrote:
Sakya Pandita states:

"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.

In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.

Seeker12 said:
Man, it seems to me that this type of thing should be more widely known.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a huge tendency in Vajrayāna to encourage sycophancy and dependence amongst disciples. Many people do not understand that there are limits to the guru's authority. For example, Sapan also states with great clarity:

If he does not teach according to the words of the Buddha,
even if he is one’s guru, one should remain indifferent.

This is not to say that we can get anywhere on our own in the Buddhist path, The Tattvāvatāra states:

The all-knowing one praises reliance on a guru,
not the independence of a disciple. 
A blind person is not independent, 
unable to climb a mountain.

Nevertheless, we must temper our understaing of the need to rely on a qualified master with common sense, so we do not wind up creating Buddhist cults which merely keep people imprisoned cages that seem like Dharma but are actually just clever prisons.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:



diamind said:
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.

Josef said:
You’re kidding I hope.

diamind said:
No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing?  The one that critics the guru?  Sorry haven't heard of that one yet.  Must be new.  Good luck with that.

Malcolm wrote:
Sakya Pandita states:

"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.

In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:



diamind said:
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, because rinpoches are infallible by definition and they don't shit anything but sunshine and unicorns.

diamind said:
That's the view.  Maybe it's better you stick with the sutras.


Malcolm wrote:
No, that is not the view. That just some cultist bullshit. Instead, authentic sources like the Padmini commentary on the Hevajra Tantra composed in the mid-10th century state:

"Because of the power of the Kaliyuga, gurus have mixed qualities and faults, 
there are none at all without misdeeds;
disciples should rely on those
whose qualities predominate, and who have been thoroughly investigated."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 2:51 AM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Adzom Drukpa is also a tulku, ultimately of the Drukpa Kagyu polymath, Pema Karpo.

A bodhisattva on the first bodhisattva stage can have 100 emanations. I assume all these emanations are independent, but should they choose, they can be aware of each other since in some sense they are one continuum.




Seeker12 said:
In terms of a conceptual understanding of such statements, how do you reconcile such a statement with the idea that many Dzogchen masters have had numerous incarnations? Even ChNN is considered to be a tulku himself from a previous Dzogchen master.

Is it simply considered, for example, that he is then an emanation of a Buddha? In other words, if that's not the case, how could there be more than two 'births' from such individuals? Does it simply have to do with subtle understandings of what birth and death mean, what Buddhahood is, etc?


Malcolm wrote:
Tulkus are something relative, it is a social phenomena. When a Dzogchen practitioner passes away, each grade of practitioner will have a given number of emanations, will remain in the bardo of dharmatā for a set length of time and so on. It is not necessary to recognize all these emanations as tulkus. Ordinary people are also recognized as tulkus. Actually, all of us are tulkus. Some of us are tulkus of samsara, others tulkus of nirvana.

Seeker12 said:
Thank you for responding.

In general, my interest is not in whether or not someone is recognized as a tulku but rather trying to fit together the teachings coherently.

So with that said, a further question/clarification. If we take the case of ChNN, he is said to be the reincarnation of Adzom Drukpa. As I recall, he didn't particularly like this idea until he wrote a commentary which was almost word-for-word identical to that of a commentary by Adzom Drukpa, at which point he maybe accepted this to be true.

In another thread, as I recall, you have said that Dharmakirti argues that mindstreams are distinct. I will presume that you hold this view as well, although it wasn't explicitly said.

If this is the case, then, are we to understand that ChNN is the same mindstream as Adzom Drukpa? Or is ChNN simply one of many emanation bodies of Adzom Drukpa, the number of which is determined by the grade of his realization? Or are we to consider that ChNN is actually a fully enlightened Buddha himself that is simply manifesting as he is, which would mean that Adzom Drukpa did in fact achieve Buddhahood either during his life or shortly afterwards.

If none of those apply, and ChNN is in fact A) the same mindstream as Adzom Drukpa, and B) not a samyaksambuddha either currently or at least during this life, then I don't see how the teachings on all Dzogchen practitioners attaining samyaksambodhi in this life or shortly afterwards really fit together.

Of course, another option would be that the two are actually not related at all - that they are separate mindstreams - and the whole 'tulku' or 'reincarnation' aspect is simply mistaken.

I hope my question is clear. Thanks for any consideration.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 2:42 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
cloudburst said:
like the svatantrika position that things are produced by virtue of their own characteristics

Malcolm wrote:
This is not the position of any Madhyamaka, Bhavaviveka included.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 2:10 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:
smcj said:
His affirmation of the benefits of practicing the Mahayana as a basis for the Vajrayana.

Malcolm wrote:
I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:
Those who skip the Mahayana path and go straight to the Vajrayana path are obvious from a distance by the gleam of their oily hair. They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.
These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.

diamind said:
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, because rinpoches are infallible by definition and they don't shit anything but sunshine and unicorns.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 8th, 2017 at 2:07 AM
Title: Re: Morality of stockholding
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Is it just me, or has this thread gone massively


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 11:51 PM
Title: Re: Bumpa
Content:



Lhasa said:
Thank you.  And the deity vase is different from the bumpa?


Malcolm wrote:
There are two vases, typically. One is the activity vase, the contents of which are visualized as wrathful deities.

The other vase is the as mentioned above, the vase that represents the mandala. It contents are visualized as the deity, mandala, and celestial mansion. It is from the latter vase one receives the vase empowerment related to the creation stage.

Lhasa said:
Garchen Rinpoche uses a bumpa with a deity card attached to it for the vase empowerment.  If they use a second vase, it's not obvious.  Unless it is the one they use to give purification water to the attendees.  Thanks

Malcolm wrote:
The activity vase is used in the empowerment preparations, you won't see it used much during the actual empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 11:48 PM
Title: Re: The Only Capitol of Israel
Content:


Ayu said:
(I'm upset about the stupidness of Trump and his voters. )

Malcolm wrote:
Well, just make sure AfG does not gain more seats, or you will be following us down the same road...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 11:47 PM
Title: Re: The Only Capitol of Israel
Content:
Ayu said:
....American rich people's purses great again.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, there are plenty of German, French, English, Belgian, etc., arms dealers who will make lots of money for sure. Not to mention the Russians and the Chinese.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 11:16 PM
Title: Re: Soul fragmentation and defragmentation as Buddism teaching?
Content:


ydnan321 said:
I’ve tried researching on my own though never really got down to a complete resolution and seemed like the more I tried the more exhausted and frustrated I got. I will continue with my research when possible. On the other hand, any contribution in the forum on this, hopefully with references, to help me get over this is deeply appreciated.

Malcolm wrote:
Examine Yogacara explanations for why mind streams are unique and separate, even if there are no external objects.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 10:38 PM
Title: Re: Bumpa
Content:
Lhasa said:
What is bumzey?

dzoki said:
Bumdze (bum rdzas) is a mixture of ingredients (herbal and mineral) used for filling a vase representing a deity and its mandala.

Lhasa said:
Thank you.  And the deity vase is different from the bumpa?


Malcolm wrote:
There are two vases, typically. One is the activity vase, the contents of which are visualized as wrathful deities.

The other vase is the as mentioned above, the vase that represents the mandala. It contents are visualized as the deity, mandala, and celestial mansion. It is from the latter vase one receives the vase empowerment related to the creation stage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 10:34 PM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:
Mantrik said:
After managing to make the Middle East even more toxic, I suspect Trump's next Tweet will be along the lines of the need to bomb the rogue state of  Al Jazeera.  I suspect his understanding of the region is about the same as that of Bush.

Malcolm wrote:
Bush, at least, had the benefit of Darth Cheney.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 9:49 PM
Title: Re: The Only Capitol of Israel
Content:
Lindama said:
Trump is the latest pawn.

Malcolm wrote:
The pawn of whom?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 9:47 PM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:
Lindama said:
The end result is that the US profited handsomely from the war as well as the opium fields in Afghanistan.

Malcolm wrote:
No, we have not even come close to paying off the war in Iraq. Sure, arms dealers have made a lot of money, contractors have made a lot of money, the US, not so much.

Lindama said:
The sitting idiot is just another false flag.

Malcolm wrote:
This suggests you think there is some conspiracy afoot. I would suggest to you that there is a confederacy of idiots [the GOP], but how capable they are of pulling off real conspiracy is highly questionable in my opinion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 9:40 PM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.

Yup, I know many, many, many Tibetans and Chinese people to whom this applies; not so many westerners though.

MiphamFan said:
Well, not that I disagree, but he was talking about going to Taiwan and seeing such things.

Malcolm wrote:
Just making a point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 9:38 PM
Title: Re: DJKR, Sogyal Rinpoche, and Dharma in the West...
Content:


Harimoo said:
In villages, women suspected of adultery had their nose cut off (you could see noseless women in the Streets).

Malcolm wrote:
Probably sufferers of the "Chinese Pox," i.e. syphilis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 9:34 PM
Title: Re: Liljenberg's Thesis "A critical study of the thirteen later translations of the Dzogchen mind series"
Content:
Pero said:
In any case, pretty big mistake, but is that from Lipman's translation already or her's?

Malcolm wrote:
No idea, and I generally don't comment on other folks translations — but that footnote was too funny.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 11:03 AM
Title: Re: The Only Capitol of Israel
Content:
TharpaChodron said:
Trump was quoted as saying he was pushed by the Zionists, quite a pathetic excuse.

Malcolm wrote:
It is truly pathetic that Trump's foreign policy concerning Israel is being driven by his damn fool son-in-law for the Kushner Family's person gain...but what else do you expect from the Trump clan?

At this rate, it will take 100 hundred years to straighten out the mess Trump has made in the world in less than 1. Our world must be sorely be lacking in merit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 10:59 AM
Title: Re: The Only Capitol of Israel
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
Could political or personal beliefs ever overcome compassion for all our mother sentient beings?  No, certainly not possible there could be any nominal Buddhists.

conebeckham said:
If one truly possessed perfect compassion for all our mother sentient beings, there would be no personal or political beliefs to be held against such compassion.  However, that does not obviate the need for appropriate action, and for the possibility of objecting to, protesting, or even contravening actions which are not beneficial to sentient beings.   Theoretically, and also in Buddhist scripture, it is possible to act out of compassion in such a way that such actions may be deemed by the ignorant to be driven by political or personal beliefs.

I assume, though, that you are not arguing Trump's actions are driven by such perfect compassion.

Nicholas Weeks said:
"Perfect compassion" is your spin or sloppy reading, I did not write it or mean it.

I am just hoping for the day when compassion for every single being will be expressed on DW either by words or holding back on personal digs.  Criticism & analysis fine, just save the zingers - if possible.


Malcolm wrote:
Harmful people are fools.
Trump is a harmful person.
Therefore, Trump is a fool.
Likewise, wise people are not harmful.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 7:23 AM
Title: Re: Self-referential aspects of Lotus Sutra
Content:
Queequeg said:
Can't speak in general, but in East Asian Lotus tradition, True Mahayana (as opposed to Provisional Mahayana) is all considered the Lotus. My basis in saying this is that I've found that Mahaparinirvana Sutra will be quoted as referring to or elaborating the Lotus when the text literally refers to Mahayana.

Malcolm wrote:
The Nirvana Sūtra refers to the Lotus exactly once.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 7:20 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Queequeg said:
LOL. Come on, bro. Are you really raising questions about the Buddha's authority?

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely, since "the Buddha" here is Buddha as literary figure in a document that has undergone considerable editing and revision.



Queequeg said:
While it is fair to question whether a teaching of the Buddha really means what it appears to mean, especially in light of and while discussing the Lotus Sutra which actually explains repeatedly the nature and motivation of upaya, that leaves us without much to actually discuss. After all, if we can't agree that a text means what it literally says, let alone how it could or should be interpreted, we're reduced to looking at each other and gesturing:


Malcolm wrote:
We can agree that red is red if someone says this thing is red — what the redness of this thing means, however, can be very different.

Queequeg said:
Since then more than forty years have passed.

Malcolm wrote:
That's true, I forgot about this passage. Buddha was eighty when he demonstrated parinirvana, so he would have taught this within the last four years of his life.

Queequeg said:
The Mahaparinirvana Sutra is considered a continuation of the Lotus. Actually, the entire body of the Buddha's teachings are considered a single, continuous teaching, with the Lotus at its heart.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, but whether or not the Lotus Sūtra is the summum bonum of the Buddha's teachings, that is something which can be and should be questioned, just like any claim made in Buddhadharma.

Queequeg said:
You're stuck on a particular definition of sutra, one that you yourself don't hold, but you try to box me in with that definition. I've been pointing this out all along, in this way and that, but you just blow it off as "marketing." I can't help it if you selectively give my remarks weight depending on what is convenient for you to sustain a critique.

Malcolm wrote:
When people depend on a text, and define themselves by a text, then the definition of the nature of that text is important. As for your second comment, we all selectively give remarks weight, — you are a lawyer, so you know this intimately.

Queequeg said:
I have no idea what you're saying in those two first sentences. If the latter comes from realizing the former, then the latter is dependent on the former and not "distinct from one another as are heaven and earth." To distinguish the subject and object that way has its conventional purpose, but can't be sustained.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure it can, every sentient being is buddhanatured. There are not very many buddhas though.


Queequeg said:
It does not make Gotama's struggle for enlightenment any less real.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, it absolutely does. The relationship of the nirmanakāya to the sambhogakāya is that of an illusion to its maker. In other words the former is provisional, the latter, definitive.

Queequeg said:
you'll see that you were Buddha all along.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is a statement by Haribhadra, in reference to the fact that entire path is an illusion, including the attainment of buddhahood.

Queequeg said:
You have it backwards. You have confused cause and result (again). These distinctions are not arbitrary, they are conventional. Conventions are not merely arbitrary designations. You might designate your rocking horse a horse, but it won't eat grass no matter how much you place before it.
I don't have it backwards, what I'm saying is that the cause and result can't truly be distinguished.

Malcolm wrote:
I assume by "truly" you mean ultimately — but the basis, path, and buddhahood are strictly conventional, not ultimate.

Queequeg said:
Do we really have to go through 3 aeons of strenuous practice?

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, in common Mahāyāna, definitely.

Queequeg said:
The purpose of studying tenet systems is eliminate concepts you may be subscribing to unwittingly, in other words, to eliminate diseases you do not you have. For example, like the belief that tathāgatagarbha is commensurate with buddhahood.
Commensurate, sure, but not the same.

Malcolm wrote:
Commensurate means equivalent. Buddhanature is not equivalent to buddhahood.



Queequeg said:
Right. So, in the end, I get your criticisms. Noted. But there's nothing definitive.

Malcolm wrote:
In the end, it appears to me that the Chinese needed to supply a historical context for a foreign religion, one the Indians had no need to provide for themselves. This has lead to a number of innovations in Chinese Buddhism that would never occur in the land of Buddhism's birth. We see very similar trends in Tibetan Buddhology.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 6:38 AM
Title: Re: The Only Capitol of Israel
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
It will take a few years to actually have a building for the US Embassy in Jerusalem, but the President of the US has stated as policy what Israel declared in 1950.

https://stream.org/why-it-matters/

Most religious Jews & Christians are pleased.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, and he will bear the karma of the everyone who dies as a result by irresponsibly shitting 5 decades worth of US Foreign Policy. Trump is a fool, and so is every one who supports him.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 6:15 AM
Title: Re: Liljenberg's Thesis "A critical study of the thirteen later translations of the Dzogchen mind series"
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
It's available here: http://eprints.soas.ac.uk/15851/

Malcolm wrote:
It is interesting, but there are some funny mistakes like this footnote:


For example, see Norbu and Lipman 2001, p. 65, and p.121, lines 124-127. This passage quotes an unnamed teacher as stating that “pure symbolic consumption is also bodhicitta”: brda can yang dag len pa’ang byang chub yin zhes ston pas gsung. This probably denotes the ritual consumption of semen in the practice of sbyor ba. The same passage also refers to the Three Samādhi (ting ’dzin gsum po), and the Great Seal of the Dharma (chos kyi phyag rgya chen po).

In fact the line reads:

Furthermore, since the teacher has declared that awakening can be correctly grasped with a symbol,
in that case, this is the basis of the meditation that generates awakened mind. 
After the three samadhis are stable and after binding the three symbolic mudras, 
generate the mind as the great dharmamudra and meditate the recitation of the essence [mantra].

Mipham's comment, based on the commentary found in the Tengyur, states:

If it is asked, “What is the method for realizing the definitive meaning through the indirect method?,” since nonactivity is illustrated with the activity of fabricated efforts, like pointing at the moon with a finger, also awakened mind correctly grasped through a symbol will accomplish awakening because the Bhagavan Buddha, the teacher of devas and humans, has declared that it is “great awakening.” Any unfortunate one who conceptualizes entities should make efforts in the indirect method of realization.
 
In that case, this which is to be explained is the basis or cause of the meditation that generates ultimate awakened mind itself. If it is asked what that is, it is samadhi and mudra. 

Now then, through the power of cultivating the three samadhis of suchness, universal illumination and the cause, [14/a] one will be stable, and not carried away by negative conditions. After the meditation of binding the three symbolic mudras of buddhahood— the body (mahāmudra), the mind (samaya mudra), and the activities (karmamudra)—generate the mind as the great dharmamudra (the symbol of speech). One should then meditate the recitation of the essence mantra.

If one meditates generating the thought that the samadhis and the mudras are dharmatā and therefore are not different, the ultimate awakened mind will arise. If one actualizes the meditation, one realizes that all phenomena do not exist apart from one’s mind. The accumulations are gathered and obscurations are purified because of that meditation. One becomes realized because one’s continuum is blessed by the deity of pristine consciousness.

I just don't see any ritual consumption of semen in this text, damn!

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 5:02 AM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:
Yuren said:
So what's the success rate like, in percentages?
For instance, how many have become enlightened by following Namkhai Norbu?

Malcolm wrote:
Everyone who follows Dzogchen teachings will attain buddhahood, either in this life, the bardo, or the very next lifetime. As Paṇḍita Vimalamitra says:


Thus, there is not a single one who has entered into this teaching who fails to attain buddhahood.

Seeker12 said:
In terms of a conceptual understanding of such statements, how do you reconcile such a statement with the idea that many Dzogchen masters have had numerous incarnations? Even ChNN is considered to be a tulku himself from a previous Dzogchen master.

Is it simply considered, for example, that he is then an emanation of a Buddha? In other words, if that's not the case, how could there be more than two 'births' from such individuals? Does it simply have to do with subtle understandings of what birth and death mean, what Buddhahood is, etc?


Malcolm wrote:
Tulkus are something relative, it is a social phenomena. When a Dzogchen practitioner passes away, each grade of practitioner will have a given number of emanations, will remain in the bardo of dharmatā for a set length of time and so on. It is not necessary to recognize all these emanations as tulkus. Ordinary people are also recognized as tulkus. Actually, all of us are tulkus. Some of us are tulkus of samsara, others tulkus of nirvana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 7th, 2017 at 4:45 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Minobu said:
it's a matter of faith

Malcolm wrote:
I don't have much use for faith.

I prefer confidence (śraddha). What is śraddha? Śraddha is a mental factor that clarifies the mind.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: DJKR, Sogyal Rinpoche, and Dharma in the West...
Content:
Grigoris said:
While this may be true, it is also completely irrelevant to the point I was making.
And ethnic Christians (WTF?) don't have much familiarity with the 10 commandments and the seven deadly sins, but they don't need to since most of it is codified in law.  You don't need to know that "Thou shalt not kill" is the 5th (!) commandment in order to know that murder is not acceptable, or "Thou shalt not covet"is the 10th commandment to know that stealing is not okay.

Malcolm wrote:
The FNT and the 8FP were never codified into Tibetan law, or the law of any other Buddhist country.

Grigoris said:
Really? So taking life is allowed in Buddhist countries, as is taking what is not given?  Somehow I think not. Thus...


Malcolm wrote:
People in Buddhist countries kill all the time. The precent of not taking life is not only applicable to human beings. In any case, the five precepts are not a part of the 4NT, and as far as right livelihood goes...I think you are being a tad idealistic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 10:09 PM
Title: Re: DJKR, Sogyal Rinpoche, and Dharma in the West...
Content:
kirtu said:
There are in fact Westerners raised as Buddhists in a somewhat Buddhist culture (Buddhists in Hawaii for example, possibly in other parts of the US as well).

Grigoris said:
While this may be true, it is also completely irrelevant to the point I was making. Ethnic TB's do not necessarily have much familiarity with the Eightfold Path.

Kirt
And ethnic Christians (WTF?) don't have much familiarity with the 10 commandments and the seven deadly sins, but they don't need to since most of it is codified in law.  You don't need to know that "Thou shalt not kill" is the 5th (!) commandment in order to know that murder is not acceptable, or "Thou shalt not covet"is the 10th commandment to know that stealing is not okay.

Malcolm wrote:
The FNT and the 8FP were never codified into Tibetan law, or the law of any other Buddhist country.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 1:38 PM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:


lelopa said:
CHNN sometimes said about some terma teachings: I am very interested in this!

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, if it has to do with Dzogchen, why not?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 1:35 PM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
markatex said:
I'm not really sure why Malcolm keeps posting here. His dislike of East Asian Buddhism is well-known. What's the point?

Malcolm wrote:
That is a complete misrepresentation. Sinitic Buddhism is just fine. But just as I have doubts about interpretations of Dharma that I consider excessively parochial in Tibetan Buddhism, I have similar doubts about interpretations of Dharma found in Sinitic Buddhism that seen excessively parochial to me.

In particular, I find it fascinating that Chinese Buddhists latched onto individual sūtras like the Saddhamapundarika and the Avatamska and formulated whole systems of thought out of them, a trend which is notably absent in Indian Buddhism.

If Huayen [Kegon] was a living school I am sure that a lively conversation would ensue with them as well.

At base, the most interesting phenomena in these discussions is the unwillingness of my fellow discussants to simply admit that their acceptance or rejection of Lotus Buddhism for example, is based on very little else other than their own proclivity towards it. Instead they try to argue their adherence to this school of Buddhism is based on some objective measure which can be found in the words of the Lotus Sūtra, forgetting the only reason they believe this is that they chose to believe it and nothing more.

I for one am certainly willing to admit that my choice of practice schools is based on my own personal proclivities, and that I accept what I accept based purely on my own authority and I do not pretend that my biases are enshrined in the words of the Buddha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 8:34 AM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:



chimechodra said:
What happens to sincere/diligent practitioners who have not confirmed their understanding of rigpa?

Malcolm wrote:
Practice rushen.

chimechodra said:
Any rushen in particular? I imagine purification of the six lokas in particular would be very helpful?

Malcolm wrote:
One does them all, step by step, starting with rushan of the body. It is of some import to go in this sequence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 8:33 AM
Title: Re: nagarjuna basics?
Content:
SunWuKong said:
Scholars aren't even agreeing that there was one Nagarjuna, certainly seems like a lot of work for one man, but not impossible. Heart Sutra and Diamond Sutra are condensed from the Prajnaparamita, those are a good place to start IMHO

Malcolm wrote:
We are speaking of the Nāgārjuna of the MMK, the Ratnavali, Yutisatika, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 8:32 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So define why the Saddharmapundarika is complete, and the others are not. Bearing in mind of course this notion of "complete" versus "incomplete" Mahāyāna sūtras is completely alien to Indo-Tibetan Buddhism. We prefer to argue about provisional vs. definitive, i.e. that which requires interpretation as opposed to that which does not.

Queequeg said:
Because the Buddha said the Lotus is Complete.

Malcolm wrote:
That does not explain "why?" Your answer amounts to this:

"Why?"
"Because."


Queequeg said:
“To sum up, in this sutra I have clearly revealed and taught all the teachings of the Tathāgata, all the transcendent powers of the Tathāgata, all the treasure houses of the hidden essence of the Tathāgata, and all the profound aspects of the Tathāgata.

In other words, the Complete teaching.

Malcolm wrote:
Apart from having issues with the accuracy of the translation you are using (Kumarajiva), it is clear that the text makes this statement you quote. I just don't think it means what you think it means.

That, in large part, is because I have serious doubts about this notion that we can actually say that the Saddharmapundarika was taught towards the end of the Buddha's life. There is certainly no internal indication that this is the case.

Further, it brings up another point — if the Saddharmapunadarika is  the final word, why would the Buddha bother to go on to teach the Nirvana Sūtra? Clearly, the Nirvana Sūtra comes later, since it mentions the Saddharmapunadarika by name due to its giving a prediction of buddhahood to the eighty mahāśrāvakas. It also mentions the Tathāgatagarbha Sūtra.

Queequeg said:
Once you hear it, that's it.

Malcolm wrote:
That's what?


Queequeg said:
No, that's actually a question.

Malcolm wrote:
A rhetorical question, as such, does not merit much notice. And the answer is of course one can attain full buddhahood by relying such sūtras, it just takes a really, really, really, long time. You can attain full buddhahood by relying on Hinayāna sūtras too, but it takes even longer.

Queequeg said:
Without Buddhanature, no Buddha. Buddhanature and Buddha are not definitively distinguishable, except as upaya. But as upaya, they're by definition not definitive.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhanature and Buddhahood are as distinct from one another as are heaven and earth. The latter comes from realizing the former. Otherwise, there would be no need for a path, etc. — a whole raft of negative consequences flow from misidentifying tathāgatagarbha as buddhahood.

Queequeg said:
Because of compassion, we generate bodhicitta; through generating bodhicitta; we continue on a path. Sooner or later, we also attain buddhahood. No compassion, no bodhicitta; no bodhicitta, no buddha.
No Buddha, No bodhicitta, No compassion, No Buddhanature. These distinctions you assert, the particular relationship you assert, they're arbitrary. You're distinguishing things and asserting those distinctions are real.

Malcolm wrote:
You have it backwards. You have confused cause and result (again). These distinctions are not arbitrary, they are conventional. Conventions are not merely arbitrary designations. You might designate your rocking horse a horse, but it won't eat grass no matter how much you place before it.

Queequeg said:
I can see that. But, do you need to meticulously go through Yogacara, or whatever specific foot path, to arrive at awakening? What good is cold medicine if you don't have a cold?

Malcolm wrote:
The purpose of studying tenet systems is eliminate concepts you may be subscribing to unwittingly, in other words, to eliminate diseases you do not you have. For example, like the belief that tathāgatagarbha is commensurate with buddhahood.

Queequeg said:
All do respect, you've pulled up one commentary attributed to an ethnically Indian Sub-Continent fellow, who might actually be Chinese, to assert the place of the Lotus in Indian Buddhism. You'll have to excuse me if I greet that with a smile.

Malcolm wrote:
That is the only Indic commentary that has survived. And, he is definitely not Chinese. There are semantic markers in Tibetan that distinguish translations from Sanskrit and translations from Chinese. This is very clear, for example, when you compare the Tibetan translation of the Nirvana Sūtra from Sanskrit and Chinese respectively.

Themes from the Saddharmapundarika Sūtra are cited quite frequently in Indian and Tibetan Buddhist sources. In other words, there are more sources than that commentary, and in fact, the way those sources use the Saddharmapundarika indicates what Indians found important and what they ignored. They cared little for historical assertions, for example, the three turnings of the wheel mentioned in the Samdhinirmocana, and tended to focus on that which was of doctrinal significance. Granted, this perspective is an exegetical perspective, and apart from inscriptions, we have almost no evidence of how these sūtras might have actually been treated in devotional communities in India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 6:20 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:


Astus said:
My point is that there is no reason to assume that Chan and Zen practice are not similarly influenced by body-based yogic experience, and that there has been very little translated yet into English that really speaks to such things — since academic scholars are generally more interested in intellectual analysis, even when they dress it up in poetry.
If there are translations of Daoist alchemy and yoga, not just philosophical works, why would Chan be an exception?

Malcolm wrote:
It may be the case that Chinese and Japanese Buddhists were eventually quite content with Daoist medicine, anatomy, and physiology, and saw no need to improve on it. Thus, there may be no such texts, as Matylda mentions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 5:59 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Queequeg said:
A text can run to millions of words, and yet, if they do not contain the complete teaching, they are incomplete.

Malcolm wrote:
So define why the Saddharmapundarika is complete, and the others are not. Bearing in mind of course this notion of "complete" versus "incomplete" Mahāyāna sūtras is completely alien to Indo-Tibetan Buddhism. We prefer to argue about provisional vs. definitive, i.e. that which requires interpretation as opposed to that which does not.

Queequeg said:
A text could be a single syllable but yet be complete. And that complete teaching will always be the Lotus Sutra, even if you call it a rose.

Malcolm wrote:
Can you get beyond the marketing to something substantive?

Queequeg said:
Let me ask you... ca the richness of the PP sutras, Samdhinirmocana, Lanka, Avatamsaka, Mahaparinirvana, etc., the explanations of the various teachings - do they lead directly to awakening?

Malcolm wrote:
Ok, this is an assertion, but so far, you have offered nothing in support of this assertion. I have been waiting to see something more than evangelical claims from you, but so far you have failed to put up.

Queequeg said:
You still need the cause for enlightenment. Also called the Lotus Sutra. Also called the Buddha.

Malcolm wrote:
The cause of awakening is compassion, not the Buddha. The Buddha is the result of awakening. So is are his teachings. You have confused cause and result here. For example, Buddha himself first generated compassion while in the hell realms. There was no Buddha around to give him inspiration, he was in hell. He decided that since he was already there, there was no need for the hell guardians to torture the other beings there, and asked them to mete out the punishments meant for others upon him. This was his first glimmer of compassion.

Because of compassion, we generate bodhicitta; through generating bodhicitta; we continue on a path. Sooner or later, we also attain buddhahood. No compassion, no bodhicitta; no bodhicitta, no buddha.

Queequeg said:
Please elaborate.

Malcolm wrote:
Quite frankly, the Chinese were a highly literate culture when they encountered Buddhadharma. They had already a very refined sense of literary aesthetics. Sutras like the PP Sūtras, the Yogacara Sūtras, are very Abhidharmic in their scope and language, and really, have very little narrative value. It is telling that Pramāṇa (aka Buddhist epistemology) never got off the ground in China. It is equally telling that such classics as the Maitreyan synthesis and so on were largely ignored in China, something really only Yogacara geeks like Xuantsang were into. It is not surprising therefore that the two sūtras with the grandest narrative structures, the Lotus and the Avatamska, came to be the two dominant and competing exegetical schools in China.

What strikes me repeatedly in these exchanges is how much you all value a great masterpiece of world literature without having much care for its place in the society that generated it, how little you care about its original context and range of influence.

It strikes me that for you, Buddhism begins in China in the fifth century, and anything that does not fit in with Tientai historiography is just flat out ignored.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 4:56 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Queequeg said:
This is actually a Lotus Sutra school teaching attributable to Zhiyi, and its not just Mappo - its all times. And actually, this is the message of the Lotus Sutra itself. Its just that in Mappo, this sublime teaching is most appropriate. Sound familiar?

Malcolm wrote:
Right, I don't accept either Zhiyi;s interpretation or Nichiren's of the Lotus Sūtra — I respect it, but I see no reason to believe it. It is a Sino-sphere thing, relevant only to it, based on a very parochial interpretation of what sūtras Buddha taught when during his lifetime. If one does not accept that scheme, which is not found outside Tientai-Tendai ideas about Buddhist history...

Queequeg said:
I don't know if others would agree with me, but, there is an aspect of upaya that is central to Tiantai teachings. Each view has its unique cure. It may not seem like it, but Zhiyi offered a cure for the wrong views that prevailed in China at his time. Zhanran later addressed the wrong views of his time. Saicho likewise in Japan. Nichiren followed this tradition.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I am very familiar with the system of dancing on the books of tenet systems.

Queequeg said:
These particular therapeutic teachings are described as "Relative Sublmity" (my translation/terminology). There is another aspect of the teaching that is called the Absolute Sublimity which is the real teaching, unalloyed - "not upaya", the direct awakening of the Buddha. I can understand rejecting the teachings that qualify as "Relative Sublimity" because those are conditioned teachings. I don't think anyone can reject the Absolute Sublimity - that would be rejecting the Buddha. Again, people might have problems with particular terminology, which is derivative of Relative Sublimity, but the Absolute Sublimity teaching is another story.

Malcolm wrote:
If you want to experience the the samyaksambodhi of a Buddha, all you have to do is find a teacher who can open your eyes.

Queequeg said:
Oh, you just forget. Why do you think you had the karmic disposition to resonate with the Heart Sutra and Nagarjuna?

Malcolm wrote:
Traces.

Queequeg said:
The teacher is a medium through which the Buddha's Pure and Far Reaching Voice reaches us. No one attains enlightenment without having received teaching from a Buddha directly or indirectly. Whether in this life, or another.

Malcolm wrote:
At least we agree on the need for a teacher.

Queequeg said:
The real test is whether it is what it says it is. Chocolate cake?

Malcolm wrote:
Mahāyāna Sūtras express beautifully what the awakening of a Buddha is, however, they do not provide a quick path for realizing that awakening. The path they teach is laborious and slow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Minobu said:
The problem with the sravakas, as is demonstrated in the Mahayana Sutras over and over is their arrogance that they think they know everything.
yeah i hear ya malcolm

toodleee do

Malcolm wrote:
Why are you quoting yourself?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 4:39 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Queequeg said:
The Lotus is the universal gate by which all enter the Buddhapath.

Malcolm wrote:
BTW, the Lotus is not the only sūtra which teaches ekayāna, upaya, etc. And, in fact, it is pretty thin, doctrinally-speaking, lacking the richness of the PP sūtras, Samdhinirmocana, Lanka, when it comes to explanations of emptiness, consciousness, the path, etc. However, I can see why the narratives found within the Avatamska and Lotus are very appealing to the Sinosphere.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 4:28 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Minobu said:
at the end of the day we both are seeking enlightenment..

Malcolm wrote:
I am not worried about enlightenment.

Minobu said:
i just tried to show you what the mahayana sutras do..

Malcolm wrote:
You have your ideas about Mahāyāna Sūtras, I just don't share them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 4:26 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Minobu said:
cheap tactic

Malcolm wrote:
I never use cheap tactics, only very expensive ones.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 4:23 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Content:
Unknown said:
They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.


Malcolm wrote:
Yup, I know many, many, many Tibetans and Chinese people to whom this applies; not so many westerners though.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 4:20 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Minobu said:
with this character assassination shit.

Malcolm wrote:
You ought to pull the beam out of your eye before complaining about the stick in mine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 4:19 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Queequeg said:
This is actually a Lotus Sutra school teaching attributable to Zhiyi, and its not just Mappo - its all times. And actually, this is the message of the Lotus Sutra itself. Its just that in Mappo, this sublime teaching is most appropriate. Sound familiar?

Malcolm wrote:
Right, I don't accept either Zhiyi;s interpretation or Nichiren's of the Lotus Sūtra — I respect it, but I see no reason to believe it. It is a Sino-sphere thing, relevant only to it, based on a very parochial interpretation of what sūtras Buddha taught when during his lifetime. If one does not accept that scheme, which is not found outside Tientai-Tendai ideas about Buddhist history...

Queequeg said:
The Lotus is the universal gate by which all enter the Buddhapath. Even you.

Malcolm wrote:
Nope. I became a Dharma practitioner because of the Heart Sūtra and Nāgārjuna, than you very much.

Queequeg said:
You know that whole thing you were arguing with Astus about needing a Buddha?

Malcolm wrote:
That was about needing a teacher. The Buddha's not around anymore.

Queequeg said:
As for popular appeal, you have it backwards. The simplicity is its reality. Accessibility is the mark of its sublimity.

Malcolm wrote:
It is a kind of marketing, I will grant you that. All institutional Buddhist schools need to market themselves to survive. It's competitive out there. No kings to prop up Dharma anymore apart from Thailand and Bhutan.

Queequeg said:
Those who accept Nichiren's approach do so based on the teleology of the five periods of the Dharma.
You mean people who accept the teachings about upaya and about the appropriateness of which teachings should be taught when and to whom?

Malcolm wrote:
I mean they, like Pure Landers, buy into the idea that this is a degenerate age, and therefore, etc., etc.,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 3:52 AM
Title: Re: nagarjuna basics?
Content:
nichiren-123 said:
So I was hoping for a quick and dirty description of what nagarjuna taught?

Malcolm wrote:
Nāgārjuna is the first Mahāyāna author. It is recorded that he recovered the Perfection of Wisdom Sūtras from the Nāgā realm, where they had been stashed until time was ripe for their promulgation in India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 3:44 AM
Title: Re: DJKR, Sogyal Rinpoche, and Dharma in the West...
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
The fact is most people's spirituality period does not extend much beyond interest in social occasion and indirect blessing...regardless of culture.


Malcolm wrote:
Hence Ganapujas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 3:38 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Minobu said:
malcolm the very thing you accuse Nichiren practitioners of...is exactly your character make up when you refer to us as commoners..


Malcolm wrote:
I was referring to you specifically as a commoner because you called me an elitist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 3:38 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Minobu said:
can you give me some examples...

Malcolm wrote:
Just review your own posts.


https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=27062&p=418029&hilit=dzogchen#p418029
https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=27062&p=418024&hilit=dzogchen#p418024
https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=26934&p=416425&hilit=dzogchen#p416425




Minobu said:
spoken like a true elitist .

Malcolm wrote:
I was merely responding in kind. "Populist" is a more polite way of saying "commoner."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 3:17 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:



Minobu said:
i think you are mistaken as to who Nichiren claimed to be...he said he was Bodhisattva Jogyo .
his was not a unique appraoch either to the Lotus sutra...It was the same as our Lord and Master Buddha Sakyamuni .

Malcolm wrote:
As to the first point, you are right.

As to the second point, there is ample disagreement about this from every quarter. Everyone who practices any form of Dharma believes they are practicing the Dharma of Śāyamuni Buddha.


Minobu said:
i have always said the teachings are always perfect, it's about the time when employed...big difference in painting slander with the brush from a reactionary elitist.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, you say that about the teachings you accept, but you regularly heap abuse on teachings you don't, which is typical of brash populists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 2:59 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You believe in a Buddhist teleology. This is very characteristic of Nicherin's thought in general.

Queequeg said:
I don't understand such big words as "teleology". Please explain.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course you do, you went to Law School, but I will explain. Nichiren viewed himself as an emanation of Vajrapani, a.k.a., Mahāsthāmaprāpta. This identification was bound up in his personal mission to teach his unique approach to the Lotus Sūtra as a) the defining document of Buddhism in Mappo, and b) the principle means of attaining awakening was honoring this document through through meditation and recitation based on the elaborate hermeneutics that developed in the Tendai school over time, which were also deeply infused with Buddhist esotericism, simplified however in order to ensure popular appeal. Those who accept Nichiren's approach do so based on the teleology of the five periods of the Dharma. Unique, however, to the Nichiren school in general is the conviction that all other forms of Dharma practice have been utterly superseded and are worthless.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 2:36 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Minobu said:
i guess it's exactly like  those things that you use a lot...buddha never taught some of the stuff you teach but some guy told you or you read some guy ...made up sadhana stuff, as you go along and sometimes admonish people with.


Malcolm wrote:
No, it is not exactly like that at all.

Minobu said:
you get your knowledge outside the sutras..and then say it is Buddhist thought .and that's exactly it.

but whats worse...

you said and debased the sutra line where it states" I have not yet revealed the truth " as one line by, as you put it, by a nirmanakaya to disavow the edict.

then you use a group of  people to define the three times periods according to sutras and what the Buddha said.
so it's ok sometimes and not ok others ..

Malcolm wrote:
We do not understand Buddhist teachings in the same way. You believe in a Buddhist teleology. This is very characteristic of Nicherin's thought in general. I don't share such sentiments. I am also very comfortable with the fact that you do not accept most of what the Buddha taught to be valid. That's your issue, not mine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 2:26 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Astus said:
Aside from Hakuin's incorporation of breath techniques, do you know of any other Buddhist school in East Asia that did something similar?

Meido said:
The general approach to Zen practice as a yogic or wholly psycho-physical undertaking rather than something purely psychological and intellectual doesn't originate with Hakuin, as I have said before in other threads. The records of early (Kamakura) Zen in Japan clearly show that this emphasis existed strongly in the teachings of the late Song Chan masters (e.g. Bukko) who arrived in Japan.

I can't speak for other E. Asian Buddhist schools, except to say that my experience training with a modern Chan teacher revealed the same understanding.

~ Meido

Malcolm wrote:
The arrival of Bodhidharma to China corresponds with an increased incorporation of anatomical and medical understandings of the relation of the human body to practice in India. Depending on when you think he arrived, he arrived either slightly before or slightly after the fall of the Gupta empire. It must be the case that he carried these kinds of instructions with him, though whether they were passed on in any significant way is anybody's guess.

In any case, sūtras like the Suvarnaprabhaṣa, the Nandagarbhavikranti, etc., exhibit a sophisticated knowledge of Ayurveda, and so on. As we know, these trends reached their apogee in the 10th century when Indian Vajrayāna grounded its entire practice in a specific understanding of the physiology and anatomy of the body. However, we also see an approach to this understanding in the so-called lower tantras which date to the 7th century.

In general, Mahayāna yogis began to incorporate these kinds of understandings into their practice, which in my opinion was first promulgated in the form of upadeśas to close disciples. Perhaps these Indian techniques never gained the popularity they experienced in India and the Himalayas because China already had a sophisticated medical system with an elaborate and functional anatomy and physiology. In any case, after the fall of the Gupta, In India we see the evolution of body-based systems of practice and trend away from the intellectual edifices of Madhyamaka and Yogacara, a trend away from intellectual analysis towards yogic experience. It is obvious to me, that this fusion of yogic praxis with local understandings of anatomy and physiology becomes a more prominent feature of Mahāyana practice as time moves on. For example, in Tibet, the vast intellectual edifice of Dzogchen Upadesha teachings (as opposed to the mind series and space series) serves merely to articulate the technical principles of the body-based experience which is crucial in Dzogchen Upadesha teachings, and without which there is no Dzogchen Upadesha practice to speak of. My point is that there is no reason to assume that Chan and Zen practice are not similarly influenced by body-based yogic experience, and that there has been very little translated yet into English that really speaks to such things — since academic scholars are generally more interested in intellectual analysis, even when they dress it up in poetry.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 2:00 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Minobu said:
i guess it's exactly like  those things that you use a lot...buddha never taught some of the stuff you teach but some guy told you or you read some guy ...made up sadhana stuff, as you go along and sometimes admonish people with.


Malcolm wrote:
No, it is not exactly like that at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 12:51 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Minobu said:
maybe the Rinpoche saw what you cannot ...along with others who taught the Nichiren priest and then low and behold the greatest physicist on the planet ....who is not a Buddhist proved something that buddhists long taught...

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha never taught a) that time as a circle. b) He never taught that all three times exist simultaneously.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 6th, 2017 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: Western Myth of Zen
Content:
Meido said:
The primary Western myth of Zen is that Zen practice and awakening are psychological affairs.

Malcolm wrote:
This is the primary western myth about Dharma in general.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 11:46 PM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:



chimechodra said:
What happens to sincere/diligent practitioners who have not confirmed their understanding of rigpa?

Malcolm wrote:
Practice rushen.

Aryjna said:
Is it more important than semdzins?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 11:17 AM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
Unfortunately, I have done far worse in my life already than slandering the Buddhadharma.

Malcolm wrote:
There is nothing worse than slandering Buddhadharma. Slandering Buddhadharma is like killing your parents, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 11:02 AM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
Well, I think it did what it was intended to do brilliantly, namely, be a somewhat awkward and unworkable yet clearly recognizable limerick rendition of the opening.

Malcolm wrote:
You do realize there are karmic consequences which result from taking license with Buddhadharma?

Coëmgenu said:
I am already must likely going to several vajra hells. Several vajra hells is synonymous with "not being a Buddha" itself. If you think that my limerick has profoundly insulted the Dharma, I would direct you to the literature of Stephen Batchelor, which you enjoy skewering on public media.

Malcolm wrote:
Making jokes with the teachings generates obscurations for oneself. Rather than taking my observation as a rebuke, understand it to be a kindness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 10:19 AM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In other words, it is a fail.

Coëmgenu said:
Well, I think it did what it was intended to do brilliantly, namely, be a somewhat awkward and unworkable yet clearly recognizable limerick rendition of the opening.

Malcolm wrote:
You do realize there are karmic consequences which result from taking license with Buddhadharma?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Madhyamaka accepts all three pramanas. Only Carvakas/Lokayatis reject all pramana other than direct perception.

PuerAzaelis said:
?!

But the only inference it accepts is reductio, not syllogisms.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a myth. Madhyamaka accepts syllogisms, there is a whole school devoted to casting Madhyamaka arguments into syllogism, called Svatantra by the Tibetans, though no such appellation is known from any Indian text.

Even so-called Prasanga accepts syllogism, though with the caveat they do not accept syllogistic reasoning concerning the ultimate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 6:41 AM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:
makewhisper said:
Thank you for this. Out of curiosity, is the condition described in this citation that one has recognized vidyā or merely that one has received a Dzogchen empowerment like Norbu Rinpoche’s DI? Thanks!

Malcolm wrote:
It refers to someone who has confirmed vidyā in a direct perception. However, successful completion of separation of samsara and nirvana of the body is described as having the same result.

chimechodra said:
What happens to sincere/diligent practitioners who have not confirmed their understanding of rigpa?

Malcolm wrote:
Practice rushen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 5:00 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Minobu said:
the future has already AND is happening all the time

Malcolm wrote:
This idea is rejected even in Hinayāna (Sautrantika) tenets, not to mention Mahāyāna.

Minobu said:
first i heard...so the hawking theory of time as a circle along with teachings i received and talked about it from a rinpoche and a Shoshu priest are just wrong...?

as hawking said "I understand why i can recall yesterday but i do not know what i cannot remember tomorrow "

the sho shu priest i was talking to was over dinner and said it is like his plate.
the rinpoche said each time it happens it's a little different.

so what you think malcolm

Malcolm wrote:
The lowest Hinayāna school, Vaibhaśika, aka Sarvastivadins, maintain that "Everything exists in the three times." This concept was totally demolished by the Sautrantikas, who rightly understood it to be a non-Buddhist idea infecting Buddhists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:


Minobu said:
the future has already AND is happening all the time

Malcolm wrote:
This idea is rejected even in Hinayāna (Sautrantika) tenets, not to mention Mahāyāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 3:20 AM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:
Vasana said:
We're all lazy...

Malcolm wrote:
You don't need to worry. Vimalamitra states:

One of average diligence sees the instruction of the guru, seeing the direct perception of vidyā. However, because they are distracted by worldly distractions, they never have time to practice. When they cast off this body of traces, through the blessings of seeing the door of profound dharmatā, after they find solace in the natural nirmanakāya buddhafields, they attain buddhahood. Thus, there is not a single one who has entered into this teaching who fails to attain buddhahood.  This it is said that for these ones, “the appearances of samsara are impossible.”

makewhisper said:
Thank you for this. Out of curiosity, is the condition described in this citation that one has recognized vidyā or merely that one has received a Dzogchen empowerment like Norbu Rinpoche’s DI? Thanks!

Malcolm wrote:
It refers to someone who has confirmed vidyā in a direct perception. However, successful completion of separation of samsara and nirvana of the body is described as having the same result.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 2:13 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
Queequeg said:
Its pretty straight forward.

There actually are no causes - because whatever is past does not presently exist. There are no effect of present actions, because the future has not come.

There is only this moment - what we conceive as past causes is nothing other than the present moment. What we think are future effects are nothing other than present action.


Malcolm wrote:
There isn't even a present moment, since without establishing a past moment, a present moment cannot come to be. Basic MMK:

Without depending on the past, 
those two cannot exist. 
Therefore, the present arising
and the future arising do not exist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 2:08 AM
Title: Re: simultaneity of cause and effect
Content:
nichiren-123 said:
Found a relevant quote which explains it for me:
http://ichinensanzen.ca/dependent-origination-the-doctrine-of-interdependence/... ‘oneself’ and the ‘environment’ are a mutually co-arising phenomena of causes and conditions that simultaneously give rise each other. This transforms our basic understanding of cause and effect from one cause leading to an effect in a linear delineated fashion, to everything everywhere being both the cause and effect at the same time. This is also known as the simultaneity of cause and effect, which is in fact suggesting that there is no start or end to anything; everything is a borderless continuing process where all phenomena co-arise simultaneously ad infinitum as causes and conditions.

Malcolm wrote:
This is not particularly interesting. All conditioned things are simultaneously causes and effects.

Moreover, there is in Abhidharma a simple concept called karana-hetu. It simply means that everything is a cause of everything other thing apart from itself. It is one of the six causes.

Moreover, there are four conditions, the causal condition, the dominant condition (aka karana-hetu), the object condition and the immediately antecedent and simultaneous condition.

Nāgārjuna systematically dismantles these one by one. Thus, arising from conditions is merely a convention and does not signify anything real.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 12:53 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
Ty _/\_

Final q for now:

If pramana was just absorbed completely by madhyamaka and there is no more indirect pramana any more, i.e. valid cognition using inferences,

Malcolm wrote:
Madhyamaka accepts all three pramanas. Only Carvakas/Lokayatis reject all pramana other than direct perception.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 12:21 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Astus said:
Nevertheless, the bigger question at this point is whether it is possible for someone to learn Buddhism only from books (also perhaps audio/video materials) and that way gain correct understanding.

WontonCarter said:
How I've done it so far is to not only read the works of many teachers of many traditions, but also work a lot with admirable friends, compare understandings, read the posts here and at DhammaWheel, as well as other forums, and listen to Dharma talks and lectures from highly-reputable teachers of both Mahayana and Theravada. I've also been in contact/have friendships with monks and nuns, exchanged letters, had conversations, etc. I spend a lot of time studying the Pali Canon and Mahayana sutras as well, and reading commentaries. Most importantly, I practice in line with these teachings and scriptures.

Malcolm wrote:
This is called training in the three wisdoms: hearing, reflection, and cultivation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 5th, 2017 at 12:00 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Oh, we can reason about rebirth and karma, but to do so requires special knowledge which is not accessible to average people (i.e. empirical validation).

PuerAzaelis said:
Ok, so we get into practice.

Practice requires the union of wisdom (i.e. a view) and experience (i.e. the application of the view).

Then, the result of practice is to affirm the view as a knowledge.

I.e. "oh, yes, now I know the view is correct".

This sounds a lot to me like the scientific method, i.e. there is a hypothesis, an experiment and a result.

Malcolm wrote:
The point is that confirming these things for oneself at the level of direct perception requires developing instruments of knowledge that are private, i.e., not accessible to anything other than testimony. Śabda is a valid form of knowledge for Buddhists, but not for scientists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:



PuerAzaelis said:
Even if we accept that karma and rebirth can't be empirically verified, both sides can still converse about them, if we accept that they can do so using definitions and synthetic propositions.

At the moment I think we have to be able to do this.

If we couldn't, we would then have to ask ourselves why we can validly reason about things like emptiness - but not karma and rebirth.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, we can reason about rebirth and karma, but to do so requires special knowledge which is not accessible to average people (i.e. empirical validation).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
If there is a denial of rebirth and karma, or a significantly dissimilar interpretation of rebirth and karma (for example, Hinduism), it is not Buddhadharma.

PuerAzaelis said:
And so our task is to present a rational explanation of how those things plainly occur. Which I believe can be done if the teaching is good. And if such a rational explanation can be given, it won't matter what name anyone would like to give it.

Malcolm wrote:
In any religion, rebirth and karma are not falsifiable. That is why they are religions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 10:51 PM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
Post-traditional need not equal "secular".

Malcolm wrote:
If there is a denial of rebirth and karma, or a significantly dissimilar interpretation of rebirth and karma (for example, Hinduism), it is not Buddhadharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 10:23 PM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:
Grigoris said:
At least they are being sneaky and underhanded about their support, the blundering idiot the U$ has for president, on the other hand...

Malcolm wrote:
Sneaky and underhanded, like, by loaning Le Pen millions?


