﻿Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 1:52 AM
Title: Re: Wait, so Karma and Rebirth don't exist?
Content:
JoaoRodrigues said:
There's no real agreement to what karma is, it's not a consistent doctrine

Malcolm wrote:
It is in fact quite consistent in Buddhadharma. The Buddha said that "Karma is intention and what results from intention."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 1:19 AM
Title: Re: Beyul: The Sacred Hidden Valleys
Content:
cjdevries said:
"Beyul: The Sacred Hidden Valleys"

I just found this short documentary on the Khumbu valley, which is one of many Beyuls, or sacred valleys of the Himalayas.  It's an uplifting documentary, and it makes me want to tell other about the place so they can experience the peace and sacred energy of that area:

Malcolm wrote:
Please don't. The reason they are places of peace and sacred energy is that they are hidden. If you tell people to go there, they will be destroyed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 1:18 AM
Title: Re: Gelug Madhyamaka
Content:
Nicholas2727 said:
I still get the impression that they are stating nothing truly exists.


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, if by "truly" you mean "ultimately."

The Geluks make a distinction between "mere existence", which is not an object of analysis, and "true existence," which is an object of analysis. In Geluk Madhyamaka, the mode of investigation is to search for inherent existence in a given thing.

So yes, the Geklukpas are saying nothing truly exists, and that things exist merely on a conventional level, which cannot withstand ultimate analysis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 3rd, 2021 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: What happens after Ngondro? (Nyingma)
Content:
Padmist said:
If Ngondro is a long term preliminary practice, what happens after this is completed? What comes next after preliminary practice?

Malcolm wrote:
More Ngondro.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 3rd, 2021 at 6:37 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:
Danny said:
Trump admin “re engaged” the Tibetan issue on human rights. A simple search will provide all the relevant details.

Malcolm wrote:
Not at all.


Danny said:
Background

Since 1988, Congress has initiated and funded several US government programs that benefit Tibetans in exile and inside Tibet through humanitarian assistance, economic development, educational assistance, democratic governance, and other efforts. These programs are annually a part of the State-Foreign Operations Appropriations bill, which Congress incorporated into the larger omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act 2020.

Malcolm wrote:
https://savetibet.org/us-congress-expands-tibet-support-programs-in-2021-budget/

Danny said:
human rights.

Malcolm wrote:
Trump is on record telling Xi his treatment of the Uigurs is proper and appropriate. Fortunately, there is another bill in that package that addresses that travesty of human rights.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 3rd, 2021 at 4:06 AM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:


tkp67 said:
The existence between birth and death is just that, the development of one's life is just that. If the only connection between child and adult has no meaning mother and father are meaningless as are the benefit of being born human, lineages and indigenous practices as well.

Malcolm wrote:
They are not meaningless, they are merely conventional, with nothing ultimate holding them together. But this does not mean there is some invisible "thing" that makes baby Johnny the same person as elderly Johnny, other than a persistent conventional identification of a stream of aggregates that always change and never remain the same. What ties a stream together over infinite lifetimes from beginningless time is the false grasping at the aggregates as "I and mine." Nothing more is needed to account for the beginningless and endless (until awakening) series of births. After awakening of course, since the three kāyas are inseparable and because sentient beings are endless, buddhas do not abide in nirvana but continue to aid sentient beings in samsara for as long as there is a samsara.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 3rd, 2021 at 3:05 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Do we actually know that he had no idea about this Tibet business in the bill? We don't AFAIK, and please anyone do prove me wrong.


Minobu said:
If bush was responsible...why is this only happening now...bush , Clinton , Obama all had a chance...they did not do it...

Malcolm wrote:
Minobu, have you fallen and hit your head? This bill is a REAUTHORIZATION of an act passed in 2002 and signed into law in by Bush II.

Is there something about the word REAUTHORIZATION that you do not understand, or are you just trolling for fun?

Mods, this thread as outlived its useful life. Please shut it down.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 3rd, 2021 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:
illarraza said:
One significant difference between the Lotus Sutra and provisional Buddhism is that not only the Dharmakaya of the Eternal Buddha has no beginning and no end but also the Saṃbhogakāya, and the Nirmāṇakāya. This is one aspect that makes the Lotus Sutra difficult to believe and difficult to understand.

Thus the Appearance, thus the Nature, and thus the Essence of the common mortal also has no beginning and no end. The provisional Buddhists  say we have no self but despite the vast differences in body, nature (mind), and essence between  newborn baby Johnnie and elderly nursing home resident Johnnie, no one can say that newborn baby Johnnie is NOT elderly nursing home resident Johnnie. Life and death and life and death Johnnie, despite his even more vast differences in body, nature, and essence from lifetime to lifetime has an aspect of individuation thanks to Johnnie's Karma that is still "Johnnie". Even were Johnnie an unrepentent  slanderer of the Lotus Sutra and he becomes a snake in his next lifetime, he is still "Johnnie" but now he is "Johnnie" the snake.

Malcolm wrote:
Just a view of self that the Buddha rejected completely. Sad.

Minobu said:
how so Malcolm...i have no idea what illarazza is on about here ...so i don't see what you see...
The provisional Buddhists say we have no self but despite the vast differences in body, nature (mind), and essence between newborn baby Johnnie and elderly nursing home resident Johnnie, no one can say that newborn baby Johnnie is NOT elderly nursing home resident Johnnie.

Malcolm wrote:
He is claiming there is some perdurable identity among the impermanent aggregates (which constitute a basis of designation for a self) that is a self. However, the only connection between baby Johnnie and elderly Johnnie is a continuity of nominal imputation and false grasping at a self over a lifetime.

As for his other claim about the three kāyas, this is also mistaken. The two or three kāyas are inseparable and unceasing. This is just standard Mahāyāna doctrine, not a special feature of Lotus Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 3rd, 2021 at 1:23 AM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:
illarraza said:
One significant difference between the Lotus Sutra and provisional Buddhism is that not only the Dharmakaya of the Eternal Buddha has no beginning and no end but also the Saṃbhogakāya, and the Nirmāṇakāya. This is one aspect that makes the Lotus Sutra difficult to believe and difficult to understand.

Thus the Appearance, thus the Nature, and thus the Essence of the common mortal also has no beginning and no end. The provisional Buddhists  say we have no self but despite the vast differences in body, nature (mind), and essence between  newborn baby Johnnie and elderly nursing home resident Johnnie, no one can say that newborn baby Johnnie is NOT elderly nursing home resident Johnnie. Life and death and life and death Johnnie, despite his even more vast differences in body, nature, and essence from lifetime to lifetime has an aspect of individuation thanks to Johnnie's Karma that is still "Johnnie". Even were Johnnie an unrepentent  slanderer of the Lotus Sutra and he becomes a snake in his next lifetime, he is still "Johnnie" but now he is "Johnnie" the snake.

Malcolm wrote:
Just a view of self that the Buddha rejected completely. Sad.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 3rd, 2021 at 1:22 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Do we actually know that he had no idea about this Tibet business in the bill? We don't AFAIK...

Malcolm wrote:
We do know, actually. This bill is merely an extension of a bill that was passed 18 years ago and extended by its sponsor, James McGovern, and in the bill it specifies:

SEC. 2. MODIFICATIONS TO AND REAUTHORIZATION OF TIBETAN POLICY ACT OF 2002.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/4331/text?r=10&s=5

If any president deserves personal credit for this bill, it would be Bush II, who met HHDL in 5/21/2001. And Bush I also met with HHDL on more than one occasion.

Now, there are those of here who have some insight into to inner workings of the US-Tibet relations, know who the major players in the game are, and have actually talked to some of them in person. Then there are those who do not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 2nd, 2021 at 12:35 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:
Tlalok said:
Didn't he also try to pocket veto this bill in the first place?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, he actually did veto this bill the first go round. This has been pointed out. But our good natured friend is trying to see some good in Donald...an exercise in futility in his current rebirth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 9:24 PM
Title: Re: The material reality of Sumeru
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Is Sumeru real for you in the sense that the Himalayas are real? Is Sumeru specifically mythological in the sense that it is "not real" like the Himalayas are real? Something else entirely?

Please don't say "It's empty" as an answer. Everything is empty.

Malcolm wrote:
Once it was real, now it is myth.

tkp67 said:
I assume you used myth instead of historical on purpose? I guess what I am asking was it ever a physical topographical feature or was it real because it was in the landscape of the mind in the populous back then lost to lack of belief? Perhaps minds lost the capacity to maintain its purpose?

Malcolm wrote:
If Sumeru can be considered to have any basis in reality, it was a mountain sited on the Tibetan plateau, largely inaccessible to any but the most adventurous Indians, with its many ranges, rivers and lakes. It’s just another Axis Mundi myth. But it’s not even historical, unlike Uddiyana and Shambhala, which were countries that once existed in Central Asia.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 9:02 PM
Title: Re: The material reality of Sumeru
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Is Sumeru real for you in the sense that the Himalayas are real? Is Sumeru specifically mythological in the sense that it is "not real" like the Himalayas are real? Something else entirely?

Please don't say "It's empty" as an answer. Everything is empty.

Malcolm wrote:
Once it was real, now it is myth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 10:33 AM
Title: Re: Preliminary Practices
Content:
Mateooooo said:
H
My goal is to realize Mahamudra in the Kagyu lineadge; but I am a newbee so I need to build foundations.

Malcolm wrote:
You need a guru. You should make a connection with Zurmang Gawang Rinpoche, he relatively young, speaks English fluently and is quite expert in this tradition, given that he is a lineage head.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 10:29 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
A Vajra Master sees things as they actually are.

Malcolm wrote:
No, not necessarily. Not all vajra masters are actually buddhas. In fact, virtually none of them are, from their own point of view. Being a buddha is not a requirement for being a vajra master. If it were, Vajrayāna would be impossible.

The tantras never prohibit ordinary people from acting as vajra masters, provided they have done the retreats, etc., needed to act as a vajra master.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I meant a real one, not a ceremonial one.
Obviously.

Malcolm wrote:
From the point of view of the student, there is no difference. That’s the point of the whole thing, a point which you clearly overlook. Every master is a disciple, and always will be. That’s why our Vajrayana lineages are so strong.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 9:18 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:


Dan74 said:
As for Trump's character, I don't know enough about the man to declare it with any certainty. To me, as the POTUS, he just... left a lot to be desired...

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, well I know a number of people who know him quite well...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 5:52 AM
Title: Re: akāromukha mantra in the Releasing of the Flaming Mouths
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
To perform the Releasing of the Flaming Mouths ceremony, a samgha with a celebrant priest is required.

Malcolm wrote:
Quite false old chap.

Here is a short version taken from Tibetan sources:
The Preta Oblation Rite

To be without obstacles at all times, place food and water into a clean vessel and it is proper to also bless it with the three syllables. It is also fine without the blessing, and there isn’t any fault. Recite seven times the mantra Namaḥ samantabuddhanaṃ, namaḥ sarvatathāgata avalokite oṃ sambhara sambhara hūṃ. A great stream of nectar flows forth from the fingers of one’s outstretched right hand. Then, filling the vast and wide vessel, imagine that all ghosts equal with space are satisfied. Seal with snapping one’s fingers three times.

Also if one wishes to do that extensively, after reciting the mantra seven times, since one says “I prostrate to Tathāgata Very Precious” imagine that oblation becomes inconceivable enjoyments of whatever is desired. Say “I prostrate to Tathāgata Sublime Form”, imagine that the mouths and throats of the ghosts become vast and beautified. Say “I prostrate to the Tathāgata Abundant Soft Body” and imagine that after the ghosts are satisfied with food, the discomfort of their bodies, the destination of Kukula hell and so on is pacified. Say “I prostrate to Tathāgata Free from All Fear” and imagine the ghosts are very happy with without the fear of fighting, strife and robbing one another over food. Then snap one’s finger seven times and tell them to depart to their own places.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 4:23 AM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
The whole of the Buddha’s teaching (upheld in Mahayana, Theravada, Hinayana, Vajrayana) rests on the fact that there is nowhere that anything can be identified as an inherently existent being, and further, that based on the illusion that a self-being exists, suffering and rebirth result.

Caoimhghín said:
Actually, many Theravadins teach that any dhamma that exists is inherently existent in at least one of four ways -- as form, as mind, as mental factor, or as nibbana. All of the dhammas "inherently exist" in the Theravadin Abhidhamma system.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Yeah, but they don’t add up to a “self”.
They don’t constitute an intrinsically existent being.

Malcolm wrote:
They constitute inherently existing entities.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 4:16 AM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I've not yet had an opportunity to read any complete work of  Ven Bhavaviveka at all. I had taken the section I had quoted as a series of typically contrarian Madhyamaka statements of "If X, then Y," designed to make us question common Buddhist assumptions and doctrines.

I had taken it as similar to when Ven Vimalaksa says that some Buddhas teach atmavada when their audience has neither fear of hell nor belief in deeds nor belief in rebirth.

Malcolm wrote:
Bhavaviveka is covering the "Introduction to the Principles of the Proponents of Vedantic Philosophy," as the chapter title suggests in order to refute them. He is not doing some antinomian Buddhist thing, he is using the very words Vedantins use for their own school to overthrow them by showing the internal contradictions in their school's use of language. His polemics against other buddhists are chapters 4 and 5, śrāvakas and yogacārins respectively.

Following his polemics against Vedantins, he then goes after Mimamsa in chapter 10. Vaiṣesika is negated in 7 and 8, Samkhya in 6. He offers his proof of a buddha's omniscience in 11. Chapters 1-3 lay out his vision of Buddhist practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 3:48 AM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Check out Ven Bhavaviveka describing suchness:

Malcolm wrote:
And there is no way to read Bhavaviveka other than as ridiculing and reducing to absurdity the Vedantin point of view, which is evident when you read his auto-commentary, Tarkajvala.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 3:22 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:


Minobu said:
But he did serve the Buddha Avalokiteshvara with a stroke of his pen..

Malcolm wrote:
So let me get this straight: you believe there is merit in neutral karma? That when you do something without knowing you are doing it, it is meritorious?

Minobu said:
i dunno...but what ever you do makes ripples in the pond whether you know  what you do or not...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 2:44 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:


Minobu said:
But he did serve the Buddha Avalokiteshvara with a stroke of his pen..

Malcolm wrote:
So let me get this straight: you believe there is merit in neutral karma? That when you do something without knowing you are doing it, it is meritorious?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 12:58 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
A Vajra Master sees things as they actually are.

Malcolm wrote:
No, not necessarily. Not all vajra masters are actually buddhas. In fact, virtually none of them are, from their own point of view. Being a buddha is not a requirement for being a vajra master. If it were, Vajrayāna would be impossible.

The tantras never prohibit ordinary people from acting as vajra masters, provided they have done the retreats, etc., needed to act as a vajra master.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 1st, 2021 at 12:11 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
You’re undermining my faith in general Mahayana.

Malcolm wrote:
Tobes brought it up, not me. I’ve just been talking about what is necessary to practice guru yoga, a practice that is not even found in Yoga Tantra, much less common Mahayana.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I’m no expert, but I’d like to think that general Mahayana produces buddhas too, just more slowly.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course, but that was never a question.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 11:43 PM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:


Dan74 said:
I wonder if it's still lying if you don't even know you are lying, if truth is nothing but a nebulous abstract concept for you.

Malcolm wrote:
He knows. He is a sociopath. No empathy. Probably tortured small animals when he was a child.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:


Dan74 said:
Yeah, must be something like that. He also speaks plainly and is unguarded compared to other politicians. There's a force of nature quality to him, which is probably a result of a lack of self-reflection.

Malcolm wrote:
Except that he lies through his teeth, constantly, forcing everyone around him to become party to his lies. No one would have called Trump a “force of nature” prior to his fluke electoral college win.

And it’s bullshit that Trump isn’t a politician, that’s all he’s ever been, his whole life.

Dan74 said:
I wonder if it's still lying if you don't even know you are lying, if truth is nothing but a nebulous abstract concept for you.

Alternative facts, post-Truth, holding personal beliefs over the views of the experts, I think Trump embraced all these and made them more acceptable, but he didn't invent them. And as with all the other nasty stuff, perhaps he was a leader that made people more comfortable with their shadow.

This just in:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/trump-tops-list-as-most-admired-man-in-america-in-annual-gallop-survey/vi-BB1clRIO?ocid=msedgntp

Malcolm wrote:
Um Dan, a polling sample by a right wing pollster of 1018 people? Come on man. We have another poll...80+ Million to 73.4.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 10:22 PM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
I don’t know about what that Ashvaghosha fellow may have said, but any assertion of atman (intrinsically arising thus permanent self) is completely inconsistent with the teachings of Nagarjuna.

illarraza said:
Ashvaghosha would disagree with you:

In The Awakening of Faith in the Mahayana, Ashvaghosha writes about the skandas [aggregates]:

Mark

Malcolm wrote:
Not written by Ashvaghosha, at least not by the Indian Acharya called Ashvaghosha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 10:15 PM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:


Dan74 said:
Yeah, must be something like that. He also speaks plainly and is unguarded compared to other politicians. There's a force of nature quality to him, which is probably a result of a lack of self-reflection.

Malcolm wrote:
Except that he lies through his teeth, constantly, forcing everyone around him to become party to his lies. No one would have called Trump a “force of nature” prior to his fluke electoral college win.

And it’s bullshit that Trump isn’t a politician, that’s all he’s ever been, his whole life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 9:58 PM
Title: Re: Copper Colored mountain location?,
Content:


jmlee369 said:
Qianlong as Manjushri was not just limited to poetry, but we've reached a dead end at this point.

Malcolm wrote:
You do realize that you’re making religious excuses for murderers, right? This is why I termed your arguments “casuistry.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: Copper Colored mountain location?,
Content:


jmlee369 said:
As for Ashoka, I am aware of that incident, which if I remember correctly was not directed against Jains,

Malcolm wrote:
You remember incorrectly. After Ashoka murdered the Jains, he placed a 5 dinar bounty on the heads of Jain monks. Ashoka’s brother was murdered by a farm couple for that bounty, because they mistook the brother for a Jain monk. When they presented this head to Ashoka, the latter was mortified, and removed the bounty.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 9:50 PM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 9:47 PM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
The practical reality is that there isn’t a single person who attained mahamudra realization who wasn’t first a Vajrayana practitioner. You can’t name even one.
You’re undermining my faith in general Mahayana.

Malcolm wrote:
Tobes brought it up, not me. I’ve just been talking about what is necessary to practice guru yoga, a practice that is not even found in Yoga Tantra, much less common Mahayana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 11:19 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:


tobes said:
Everyone on this thread needs to understand that this is a valid position one can take, but it is not the only valid position.

i.e. we're back in the old terrain of Mahamudra: can it be attained outside of Vajrayana?

Malcolm wrote:
No, actually, we are not.

If we are talking about cig car bas, they are as rare as stars in the daytime. And cig car bas don’t attain realization through devotion, they attain it through introduction.

The practical reality is that there isn’t a single person who attained mahamudra realization who wasn’t first a Vajrayana practitioner. You can’t name even one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 10:49 AM
Title: Re: Copper Colored mountain location?,
Content:
jmlee369 said:
With all due respect to Sapan, Changkya Rolpai Dorje (not to mention the 8th Dalai Lama) was not just a common geshe...But I would be curious to know more about Sapan's reasoning on this matter.

Malcolm wrote:
You missed the point, poetic hyperbole has very low standards for veracity, even when written by high lamas, as for example when a worldly king is compared with a Cakravartin or a Dharmaraja.

He points out that relics can be the simple play of elements, tricks of nonhuman beings, etc.

jmlee369 said:
Changkya Rolpai Dorje is not just your run-of-the-mill Gelug lama, he is a lineage holder of the 7th Dalai Lama, a lineage lama for the major yidam transmissions. This is why I find suspicions around his motives and authority hard to accept.

Malcolm wrote:
Flattering the religious vanity of rulers is an old Buddhist game, goes right back to the murderous king Ashoka, who, after his conversion, murdered 18,000 Jains because of a cartoon which depicted Buddha prostrating to Mahavira, as you can read in the Ashokavadana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 10:43 AM
Title: Re: Palden Lhamo Mantra Query
Content:
jmlee369 said:
Palden Lhamo Magzor Gyalmo

Malcolm wrote:
Technically, Makzorma is Remati, rides a black ass, and is Palden Lhamo’s servant.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 10:29 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan: chos and gcod - homophones?
Content:



karmanyingpo said:
How are they pronounced differently by native speakers? I have heard that many final consonants in Tibetan are not pronounced or cause lengthening of the vowel.

KN

Malcolm wrote:
Gcod is higher and sharper than Chos.

karmanyingpo said:
So it is a minimal pair differentiated by tone? Are the "ch" sounds both aspirated?

KN

Malcolm wrote:
No, the first is not aspirated


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 9:55 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan: chos and gcod - homophones?
Content:
karmanyingpo said:
I was wondering if chos (choe - Dharma) and gcod (chod or choed - Severance practice) were homophones in Tibetan.

KN

Malcolm wrote:
No, not to Tibetans.

karmanyingpo said:
How are they pronounced differently by native speakers? I have heard that many final consonants in Tibetan are not pronounced or cause lengthening of the vowel.

KN

Malcolm wrote:
Gcod is higher and sharper than Chos.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 9:33 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:


tobes said:
The ground may have been prepared in previous lives.

Malcolm wrote:
Empowerments taken in past lives are not a valid basis for practice in this one. Of the three vows, two are lost at death: personal liberation vows and samaya vows.

No empowerment, no guru; no guru, no samaya. Claiming one is doing Vajrayana practice when one has not received empowerment is like claiming one is bhikshu without having received ordination. Unfortunately, these days the latter will always be more strongly condemned than the former, even though former is a more serious problem.

tobes said:
What is at stake here is the question: how is gnosis accomplished through guru-yoga?

And the point is: if you have previously cultivated the ground, you may not need the 4th empowerment in order for realisations to ripen.

Malcolm wrote:
Without empowerment, one does not have a guru in this life.

tobes said:
It may be enough to simply meet (again). Samaya may be lost at death, but guru devotion is not.

Malcolm wrote:
You don’t know who your guru was in your past life. So what do you do, guess? In any case, Mahayana does not have the practice of guru yoga.


tobes said:
The further point is: there is much more variability here than you are suggesting. It is as variable as all the different karmic dispositions in all the different disciples, on all the different stages of the path - from pure beginner to advanced bodhisattva.


Malcolm wrote:
You either have the karmic disposition for Vajrayana or you don’t. And if you don’t it takes two asamkhyakalpas to hit the eighth bhumi, and one more for buddhahood.

If you don’t receive Vajrayana empowerment there are no extraordinary means in sutra by which you might attain even the path of seeing in this life, and that is not related to guru devotion. There is no sutra that teaches guru devotion as a cause for rapid attainment of buddhahood, despite the encouragement to venerate teachers. It’s just part of general merit accumulation. So if you were a Vajrayani in a past life, but did not meet Vajrayana in this life (through lack of merit, since this is the only reason one would fail to meet Vajrayana again), there are no means by which you can “ride the fumes” of your past life practice of Vajrayana to realization in this life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 9:13 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan: chos and gcod - homophones?
Content:
karmanyingpo said:
I was wondering if chos (choe - Dharma) and gcod (chod or choed - Severance practice) were homophones in Tibetan.

KN

Malcolm wrote:
No, not to Tibetans.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:


Minobu said:
you are lost in samsaric politics that will be of zero consequence to your Buddhist development.

Malcolm wrote:
I am not concerned about Trump for myself. I am concerned for others. It is not about my development, it is about their safety and wellbeing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 31st, 2020 at 12:33 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:


Minobu said:
what ever you want to say he did this.

Malcolm wrote:
No, actually, he didn't do anything at all. He was too busy golfing, avoiding responsibility for the pandemic, pretending he won the election, and bilking his deluded followers out of millions of dollars. But advocate for Tibet? No, he didn't spend a single second on that, other than the time it took him to sign, under significant pressure, a 5000+ page plus budget that had a symbolic resolution about Tibet buried deep in it.  He never even looked at it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 7:53 PM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:


tobes said:
The ground may have been prepared in previous lives.

Malcolm wrote:
Empowerments taken in past lives are not a valid basis for practice in this one. Of the three vows, two are lost at death: personal liberation vows and samaya vows.

No empowerment, no guru; no guru, no samaya. Claiming one is doing Vajrayana practice when one has not received empowerment is like claiming one is bhikshu without having received ordination. Unfortunately, these days the latter will always be more strongly condemned than the former, even though former is a more serious problem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 7:35 PM
Title: Re: Copper Colored mountain location?
Content:
jmlee369 said:
If the claim troubles you, you have an issue with Changkya Rolpai Dorje and master Kim Jae Woong, not me.

Malcolm wrote:
This whole conversation boils down to the quip by Sapan in Domsum: “And even common geshes are praised as buddhas. What’s acceptable for poets is not acceptable for the learned.”

Hyperbolic praise of royalty and world leaders cannot be trusted. No doubt right now some fool of a Tibetan is extolling Trump as an emanation of Vajrapani.

Also Sapan points out that relics prove nothing about someone’s realization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 11:52 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is lower tantra of course, but there is no guru yoga in lower tantra.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I have heard that often. Yet I n the Karma Kagyu NgonDro, the Vajrasattva practice is Yogatantra level. When he is visualized above one’s head he is considered to be the same as your guru. How is that not a guru yoga?

Malcolm wrote:
There is a difference in how Vajrasattva is practiced in Yoga tantra and Niruttarayogatantra. Guru yoga exclusively exists in the latter and not the former. Vajrasattva purification exists in both, but the understanding is not the same.

And, it is not certain that Vajrasattva practice in Karma Kagyu is actually yoga tantra level.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 11:05 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:


PeterC said:
US news media is a joke.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a little punch drunk.

PeterC said:
After this year, yes.  But then again, it was in part the billions in free publicity that they gave trump in 2016 that got us into this state

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2020/12/29/nashville-explosion-woman-warned-mnpd-warner-building-bomb-2019/4082253001/

It’s not just the US news media that is on Xanax.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 10:42 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:


Minobu said:
The man served The Buddha Avalokiteshvara .

He has proven to be a servant of Buddha Avalokiteshvara , how is this not a fact.

simple as that...

unprecedented since the fall of Tibet .


Malcolm wrote:
It’s a bill written by a Democrat. Trump is only a servant his own narcissistic impulses. I am sorry to disappoint you, but the Democrats such as Pelosi and Republicans such as Bush II have been giving aid and support to HHDL for a very long time. Trump is a Johnny-come-lately to the issue. When His Holiness spoke from steps of Congress  in 2007, I was there:

https://www.dalailama.com/messages/acceptance-speeches/u-s-congressional-gold-medal/congressional-gold-medal

Minobu said:
you seem blinded by the event with your politics and hatred for Trump.

come now, not even a token sentiment for what this means to the Tibetan people and The Buddha.

No other political leader has signed anything close..

this tells a story .

to watch people in here ...unreal...

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t hate Trump, he is a dangerous fool who has harmed countless millions, but I don’t hate him.

But the idea he can take credit for three decades+ of Democrat’s constant initiatives to help Tibetans is ludicrous.

In any case, it is part of a larger package, it’s not an independent bill.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 10:14 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:
karmanyingpo said:
Question, what constitutes a "serious Vajrayana practice with samaya commitments"?

Malcolm wrote:
A practice based on receiving the four empowerments completely. There is no disagreement on this point by those who who have studied both Nyingma and Sarma tantras.

There is lower tantra of course,  but there is no guru yoga in lower tantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 10:08 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dalai Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:
Minobu said:
this article reminded me of something His holiness once said ...not exact quotes here...it is from memory..

so Donald Trump assures himself of not going to Hell ...

Malcolm wrote:
It is a bill introduced by a Democrat, of course.

Minobu said:
after all is said done on this forum...He did more for His holiness than any other president or person in power world wide..

Malcolm wrote:
Umm, that is complete and total nonsense. The last three presidents met with HHDL several times. Trump has never met with HHDL or even spoken with him.

Minobu said:
The man served The Buddha Avalokiteshvara .

He has proven to be a servant of Buddha Avalokiteshvara , how is this not a fact.

simple as that...

unprecedented since the fall of Tibet .
The Tibetan Policy and Support Act of 2020 approves USD 1 million per annum for the Special US Coordinator on Tibet, USD 675,000 towards scholarship provisions, USD 575,000 for scholar exchange initiatives, USD8 million for the Tibetan Autonomous Regio and Communities in China, USD 6 million for Tibetans living in India, USD3 million for Tibetan governance.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a bill written by a Democrat. Trump is only a servant his own narcissistic impulses. I am sorry to disappoint you, but the Democrats such as Pelosi and Republicans such as Bush II have been giving aid and support to HHDL for a very long time. Trump is a Johnny-come-lately to the issue. When His Holiness spoke from steps of Congress  in 2007, I was there:

https://www.dalailama.com/messages/acceptance-speeches/u-s-congressional-gold-medal/congressional-gold-medal


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 6:18 AM
Title: Re: Non-exclusivist independent Nichiren Buddhism
Content:
illarraza said:
so i have made it a point to emulate Nichiren and see the results.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 3:59 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:
Lingpupa said:
Something else just occurred to me - it wasn't just in the 70s and 80s. I'm pretty sure that people are starting Tersar ngondros these days without yet having received a higher tantric empowerment. I can't believe they are all being either hoodwinked or tested. Are they?


Malcolm wrote:
By they time they finish prostrations, they will have certainly received. Remember, it is guru yoga that is the main issue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:


karmanyingpo said:
What about a situation in which a student has received pointing out directions from another teacher in another context? Is this sufficient? I believe that is my situation.

Malcolm wrote:
Can I ask why you are doing a ngondro under a teacher other than your guru?

karmanyingpo said:
I attended an open teaching a while ago and the teacher later told me that he tries to point out at every teaching he does. I do not have a formal or personal relationship with this teacher but his teachings are pretty public and so I have attended a couple. Not sure if he even teaches ngondro.

Ngondro is being done under a different teacher. He has done online ngondro retreats and that is how I was taught by him.

Is that bad?? Never really got the impression from either teacher that taking teachings from other teachers would be bad. They both seem to have a lot of students and are pretty open.

KN

Malcolm wrote:
I am not sure as I don't know which teachers you are talking about.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 3:06 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:


karmanyingpo said:
What about a situation in which a student has received pointing out directions from another teacher in another context? Is this sufficient? I believe that is my situation.

Malcolm wrote:
Can I ask why you are doing a ngondro under a teacher other than your guru?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 2:43 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dali Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:
tingdzin said:
As my farmer grandfather used to say,"Even a blind pig roots up an acorn now and then". Then there's Bruce Lee : "God and the Devil change places with lightning speed." (remembering that the change back can be equally quick).

Malcolm wrote:
Trump did tell Xi it was perfectly correct to intern a million Muslims in concentration camps...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 2:41 AM
Title: Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?
Content:
Queequeg said:
All this just shows, including the interlopers in this thread who have nothing to do with the tradition but feel compelled to cast shade, that the smaller the real estate gets, the more bitterly people fight over it.

Malcolm wrote:
Nailed it. Axioms 1, 2 and 3. Bravo.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 2:37 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:


Lingpupa said:
Or would it be more appropriate to say that the first time round was "real but a little thin" and that it should now be deepened through at least some continued practice?

It seems a bit harsh to say to such people that they were only being tested, and that their efforts were otherwise pointless.

PS Your implication that there was a woeful shortage of explanation is one with which I can wholeheartedly concur.

Malcolm wrote:
The gnosis aroused by guru yoga depends on the introduction of the fourth empowerment. Without it, the seed of that gnosis is not planted.

But those faithful students who persevered certainly received empowerments eventually, or at least they created a positive dharma link.

The fruit of guru yoga is the realization of the great perfection or mahāmudra. Without introduction or empowerment, I very much doubt the necessary ground has been prepared nor the seeds planted to result in either fruit.

I don't mean to be harsh, but for a tradition which holds up samaya all the time as being the foundation of the path, people seem to disregard it a lot based in this or that justification.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 30th, 2020 at 2:21 AM
Title: Re: Trump aids Dali Lama . powerful Bill to protect His position.
Content:
Minobu said:
this article reminded me of something His holiness once said ...not exact quotes here...it is from memory..

so Donald Trump assures himself of not going to Hell ...

Malcolm wrote:
It is a bill introduced by a Democrat, of course.

Minobu said:
after all is said done on this forum...He did more for His holiness than any other president or person in power world wide..

Malcolm wrote:
Umm, that is complete and total nonsense. The last three presidents met with HHDL several times. Trump has never met with HHDL or even spoken with him.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 9:53 PM
Title: Re: Respecting dharma texts - notes
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
Some years ago I read an article that noted a concern among many practitioners in East Asia regarding the disposal of digital texts. They felt wrong merely pressing delete on a file containing a sutra or parts of a sutra. I believe somebody at one point set up a special service you could send your old Dharma texts to, and they would either preserve them on a server or dispose of them "properly." Not sure about the details, though.

Malcolm wrote:
I am sure they got over it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 9:50 PM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I know that in the seventies and eighties, some kagyu and nyingma lamas insisted western people perform a ngondro as prerequisite to receiving empowerments to see how serious they were.

This approach has largely collapsed.

Lingpupa said:
OK, but I think the question still remains: was the guru yoga as practised by those westerners really guru yoga, or did the said lamas pull the wool over their eyes?

Malcolm wrote:
How can one take the four empowerments if one has not received them first from a guru, even in their most minimal form?

As it says in the Ornament of Mahāmudra Tantra:

Without empowerment there are no siddhis, 
like pressing sand for oil. 
Whoever explains the tantras and the upadeśas 
to those without empowerment,
both master and disciple
go to hell, even if siddhis have been obtained.

Now, I am quite sure that even though there were those in the 70's and 80's who did ngondros and so on without empowerment, they received little if no explanation of the tantric subjects prior to being properly ripened. So, not I don't think you were being hoodwinked, I think you were being tested to see if you were serious.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 8:32 PM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:


PeterC said:
US news media is a joke.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a little punch drunk.

PeterC said:
After this year, yes.  But then again, it was in part the billions in free publicity that they gave trump in 2016 that got us into this state

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I agree. This is where CNN in particular has much to be ashamed. But they are aware of this and have admitted it to be so. Anyway, as I am sure you agree, one should rely on papers of record, not “the media,” for journalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 8:28 PM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:


Lingpupa said:
I would be interested, if Malcolm reads this, to hear how he squares this with his view that, if I may paraphrase, no empowerment => no guru => no guru yoga. Is it that the teachers concerned were teaching wrongly? Or was the guru yoga practice involved somehow only of a low-grade? Or was it in some way not a "real" guru yoga? (Alert: the third possibility soon leads to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.)

Malcolm wrote:
No empowerment, no guru, no guru yoga is something that is very clearly stated in the tantras.

I know that in the seventies and eighties, some kagyu and nyingma lamas insisted western people perform a ngondro as prerequisite to receiving empowerments to see how serious they were.

This approach has largely collapsed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 8:19 PM
Title: Re: Copper Colored mountain location?
Content:
Palden_Norbu said:
Sorry to be the fact checker here, but


Malcolm wrote:
One interesting factoid: the language of Madagascar has only one cognate language in the world——the language of the headhunters of Borneo.

Palden_Norbu said:
This is false. Malagasy, the language of Madagascar, is part of the Austronesian family, one of the largest language families in the world, stretching from Madagascar in the West to Easter Islands in the East, and from Taiwan in the north to New Zealand in the south. Yes, it is related to the Iban language of Borneo (the headhunters), just like it is related to Indonesian, Hawaiian, Maori and hundreds of others.


Malcolm wrote:
There isn't much literature that isn't more racist than the Mahāvamsa, the telling of the Buddhist subjugation of the indigenous population of Śṛī Lanka in the second century BCE by King Dutugamunu, but Rama's war against Ravana and his cannibal legions predates it by many centuries, how many, we just don't know, perhaps around 1,000 BCE. Supposedly, the earliest portions of the Ramayāna date from around 700-500 BCE.

Palden_Norbu said:
In 1000 BCE the Indo-Aryans were just settling Northern India, pretty unlikely they would wage war against someone in Sri Lanka then.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s a little late, IMO. Nevertheless, the prevalence of a legend of a war in Shri Lanka in both Buddhist and Hindu sources that predates the Buddha by some centuries, the war could have just easily been between Tamils and ocean-going cannibals, and later Aryanized.

As for Guru P in Madagascar, see Templeman.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 11:51 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Apparently Situ R has said that you can get enlightened doing NgonDro. I can’t source it though.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because it is just gathering the two accumulations capped by the practice of guru yoga.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 11:19 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:


PeterC said:
US news media is a joke.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a little punch drunk.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 11:18 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:



FiveSkandhas said:
Was that done intentionally? The early  news report (from a reliable mainstream source) said "no foul play was suspected." I got the impression it was some sort of accident. Have they since determined it was intentional?

Malcolm wrote:
Excuse me? The RV broadcast for 15 minutes it was going to blow up, and it took out a regional telecom station

FiveSkandhas said:
That's horrifying.

I just read the breaking news when it happened and moved on. I don't pay more than casual attention to US news for the most part.

Disgusting there was no statement from the president or other rightwing officials.

Will now go read more about this tragedy.

Malcolm wrote:
Fortunately, apart from the suicide bomber, only three people suffered minor injuries because of the swift actions of the police in alerting neighbors.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 10:35 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Hello.

I've heard it from a number of sources that Ngondro can serve as a complete path to enlightenment, rather than being thought of merely as "preliminaries."

I am curious if you yourself, or anyone you know of, has decided to practice Ngondro this way, devoting themselves to it completely as a self-contained path and never receiving higher transmissions, teachings, etc. Have there been any famous historical figures known for a devotion to "Ngondro only"?

Just curious about this perspective. I think it would be a noble path indeed, and a singularly humble one. I think in many if not most beginners' minds, there is an at-least-subconscious tendency to be offput by the "preliminary" label. (Not to mention the physical stress of all the prostrations, etc.). Many may seek to "rush through this odious task so I can get to the good stuff higher up." Thus, to embrace Ngondro as a single lifetime practice would involve a deeper understanding of what it is, and a kind of wise humility that would be very refreshing and inspiring.

Malcolm wrote:
The main practice of Tibetan Buddhism is guru yoga, which is part of a “ngondro.”

There is no higher practice in Buddhadharma than guru yoga. But in order to practice guru yoga, an empowerment of unsurpassed yoga tantra is required.

karmanyingpo said:
Howdy Malcolm. My own teacher told us to practice guru yoga without empowerment, just lung. Can you help me to understand why there is this apparent discrepancy? I would ask my teacher but he is probably busy and not easily accessible directly. Thanx.

KN

Malcolm wrote:
No empowerment, no guru. Thus is universally understood. I can’t comment on why you’ve been encouraged to practice guru yoga sans empowerment or direct introduction. Perhaps he or she thinks devotion is a sufficient condition for guru yoga. But guru yoga is not simply devotion,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 10:11 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Dan74 said:
Terrorism ticks many boxes, like public imagination/indignation/anxieties  and military industrial/neocon interests.

PeterC said:
True, terrorism isn’t really about terrorism in the US.  A terrorist blew up most of a city block in Nashville on Christmas Day.  The president didn’t bother to leave the golf course, call the mayor or make any public statement about it subsequently, nor did any senior politician in his party.  Guess what color the terrorist was.

FiveSkandhas said:
Was that done intentionally? The early  news report (from a reliable mainstream source) said "no foul play was suspected." I got the impression it was some sort of accident. Have they since determined it was intentional?

Malcolm wrote:
Excuse me? The RV broadcast for 15 minutes it was going to blow up, and it took out a regional telecom station


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 9:36 AM
Title: Re: Ngondro as a complete path to enlightenment
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Hello.

I've heard it from a number of sources that Ngondro can serve as a complete path to enlightenment, rather than being thought of merely as "preliminaries."

I am curious if you yourself, or anyone you know of, has decided to practice Ngondro this way, devoting themselves to it completely as a self-contained path and never receiving higher transmissions, teachings, etc. Have there been any famous historical figures known for a devotion to "Ngondro only"?

Just curious about this perspective. I think it would be a noble path indeed, and a singularly humble one. I think in many if not most beginners' minds, there is an at-least-subconscious tendency to be offput by the "preliminary" label. (Not to mention the physical stress of all the prostrations, etc.). Many may seek to "rush through this odious task so I can get to the good stuff higher up." Thus, to embrace Ngondro as a single lifetime practice would involve a deeper understanding of what it is, and a kind of wise humility that would be very refreshing and inspiring.

Malcolm wrote:
The main practice of Tibetan Buddhism is guru yoga, which is part of a “ngondro.”

There is no higher practice in Buddhadharma than guru yoga. But in order to practice guru yoga, an empowerment of unsurpassed yoga tantra is required.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 9:26 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Dan74 said:
Terrorism ticks many boxes, like public imagination/indignation/anxieties  and military industrial/neocon interests.

PeterC said:
True, terrorism isn’t really about terrorism in the US.  A terrorist blew up most of a city block in Nashville on Christmas Day.  The president didn’t bother to leave the golf course, call the mayor or make any public statement about it subsequently, nor did any senior politician in his party.  Guess what color the terrorist was.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 6:47 AM
Title: Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?
Content:



Queequeg said:
So you want to double down?

Ridiculous. Do you even know what you're talking about? SG is an easy target to criticize, but comparing them to a group that tried to immanentize armageddon with sarin gas in a train station is national enquirer level lazy. I hope that's not the effort you put into your other endeavors.

And as for the whole question of saving all beings, it's comical when people who regard bodhisattva vows to save all beings positively get condescending when some people actually try to do it.

Smh

Malcolm wrote:
Proof of Axiom 1.

Queequeg said:
Nah. Your interjection in this thread was you performing Axiom 1.

Malcolm wrote:
Nah, just a clinical observation of based 25 years of observation. You’re not even old enough to remember the Nam/namu Usenet war of 1995.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 6:14 AM
Title: Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?
Content:
Queequeg said:
No. The comparison is outrageous and inflammatory. Its like saying Democratic Socialists are comparable to Nazis because they both advance a notion of social consciousness.

Get over yourself.

PadmaVonSamba said:
It’s comparable to saying they share in common a view of changing the world by attracting more supporters and members. It’s not a question of their internal content.

I’m not the one saying that by intending to convert, that therefore SGI and other groups who hope to convert people are the same, or that seeking to convert others always leads to a bad ending.

Perhaps you should direct your objection to the comment by soma999 who stated that:
“... There have been many who wanted to convert the world. It has never brought any good.”
(About eight posts prior to this one).

Queequeg said:
So you want to double down?

Ridiculous. Do you even know what you're talking about? SG is an easy target to criticize, but comparing them to a group that tried to immanentize armageddon with sarin gas in a train station is national enquirer level lazy. I hope that's not the effort you put into your other endeavors.

And as for the whole question of saving all beings, it's comical when people who regard bodhisattva vows to save all beings positively get condescending when some people actually try to do it.

Smh

Malcolm wrote:
Proof of Axiom 1.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 5:58 AM
Title: Re: Famine and Plague in Medieval Japan: Jaw-dropping horror
Content:



FiveSkandhas said:
50% and 75% death tolls are "special", especially in two years. Very few if any other mass famine/plague dieoffs were so hard so fast.

Malcolm wrote:
The new world, 1492—1592. Mexico suffered a 90 percent reduction in Indigenous population by 1542, thirty million down to three in fifty years.

A similar case can be found for native people in the US. 700,000 native people in Florida in 1520; 2000 by 1700.

As I said, Japan is not remarkable in this respect.

FiveSkandhas said:
In raw numbers and absolute scope, I have to concede to you.

In terms of speedy population decimation, however, I have yet to read of anything anywhere else in history like the 50% population drop in a single year brought by the 806 Japanese plague.

Malcolm wrote:
Population of Japan in 800, between 4 and 6 million.

The black death killed half the population of Europe, the Near East, and North Africa in under five years, somewhere between 75 and 200 million people. Sorry, Japan just isn't that special in this regard. 25 to 50 million of those people lived in Europe. That's slightly less than six million people a year in various parts of Europe. Depending on whose estimates you read, in one year, 40-60 percent of England's population died. Its population was between 3.7 and 5.7 million in 1347. So, basically the same as Japan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 5:11 AM
Title: Re: Famine and Plague in Medieval Japan: Jaw-dropping horror
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Nothing really special about Japan in this respect.

FiveSkandhas said:
50% and 75% death tolls are "special", especially in two years. Very few if any other mass famine/plague dieoffs were so hard so fast.

Malcolm wrote:
The new world, 1492—1592. Mexico suffered a 90 percent reduction in Indigenous population by 1542, thirty million down to three in fifty years.

A similar case can be found for native people in the US. 700,000 native people in Florida in 1520; 2000 by 1700.

As I said, Japan is not remarkable in this respect.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: Famine and Plague in Medieval Japan: Jaw-dropping horror
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
If you really contemplate these statistics, it takes the breath away. Has any other civilization endured so much famine and plague over so many centuries? What does this do to people, psychologically and sociologically?

Malcolm wrote:
Plague:
https://jmvh.org/article/the-history-of-plague-part-1-the-three-great-pandemics/

Smallpox:
https://www.infoplease.com/math-science/health/diseases/epidemics-of-the-past-smallpox-12000-years-of-terror

Famine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1315%E2%80%931317

War:

Speaks for itself.

Nothing really special about Japan in this respect.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 2:37 AM
Title: Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Axiom 1: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and non-Nichiren Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 2: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and other Nichirin Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 3: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism are best avoided.

FiveSkandhas said:
I love talking about Nichiren and am not a Nichiren Buddhist.

Because I come with an almost anthropological detachment to the topic, I make no judgements. I am merely interested in Nichiren  doxography and theology as abstract propositions.

I've never felt attacked or flamed by a Nichiren Buddhist on this board and respect most of them as valuable sources of interesting information.

The occasional contextless wall of text Gosho quotation blitz is the only drawback, and once identified they can be scrolled past.

Malcolm wrote:
There are always innocent bystanders...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 29th, 2020 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: Is world domination SGI’s goal?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Axiom 1: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and non-Nichiren Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 2: All online conversations about Nichiren Bubuddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and other Nichirin Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 3: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism are best avoided.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 28th, 2020 at 10:42 PM
Title: Re: Copper Colored mountain location?
Content:


jmlee369 said:
For the sake of argument, I will try to justify all these things.

Malcolm wrote:
That's an exercise in futility. So, just for sake of argument, I shall reveal the casuistry that lays beneath your justifications.

jmlee369 said:
For people practising Mahayana in general and Vajrayana in particular, we really need to adjust ourselves to the fact that the enlightened experience of reality is radically different from our current experience. As it says in one ganachakra text:
E-ma-ho! In the grand play of deep awareness, all lands and regions are vajra-fields; the structures majestic vajra-palaces; oceans of clouds of Samantabhadra offerings billow forth. The objects of enjoyment possess every glory wished; all dwelling therein are actual viras and virinis; not even the words "impurity" or "flaw" exist: nothing is less than infinitely pure.
https://studybuddhism.com/en/advanced-studies/prayers-rituals/tantric-practices/the-guru-puja

Malcolm wrote:
Apart from this line, "not even the words "impurity" or "flaw" exist: nothing is less than infinitely pure," this is all metaphorical.

jmlee369 said:
Many times the buddhas and bodhisattvas have and continue to manifest themselves as humans, gods, demons, yakshas, nagas, and so forth, including rakshasas. Buddhas and bodhisattvas make themselves available to each and every sentient being, there is no land or country where they do not manifest. So I don't see what's so troubling about identifying these emanations. The Avatamsaka Sutra explicitly states that bodhisattvas on the first bhumi often manifest as leaders of countries to benefit beings.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but not to lead wholesale slaughters and genocides. Even Rudracakravartin does not actually kill anyone, he creates an apparition of an army to intimidate the mlecchas, but he does not actually cause anyone to die.


jmlee369 said:
Zopa Rinpoche's thoughts on Queen Victoria come from Serkong Tsenshab Rinpoche, which I believe in turn come from the 13th Dalai Lama's identification. The Manchu emperors were long held by (mainly Gelug, I suppose) lamas to be emanations of Manjushri, especially Qianlong. If it helps, there is a Korean master and his students who also believe Qianlong to be a tulku. And yet the same Qianlong ordered the Dzungar genocide.

Malcolm wrote:
As queens go, Victoria was a pretty good one. But remember, Āryadeva points out that monarchs are fools when they think they deserve their power, and forget their power comes from the people they govern.

As for genocides, you really think the Qianlong emperor was a Mañjuśṛī emanation. This is clearly just a result of political favoritism.


jmlee369 said:
Likewise, there is the well known story from the early Tibetan histories such as the Testimony of Ba and the Pillar Testament identifying Songtsen Gampo as Avalokitesvara in the story of the two Khotanese monks, who were terrified when they saw that this supposed bodhisattva inflicted such cruel punishments and mass executions on his subjects, yet had their doubts dispelled by Manjushri.

Malcolm wrote:
One ought not rely on either the Testimony of Ba's many difference recensions nor the Pillar Testament for an accurate depiction of Songtsen Gampo's reign.

jmlee369 said:
Lama Zhang Yudrakpa, one of the previous incarnations of the Dalai Lamas, raised an army and raided villages and monasteries, but in reality the soldiers were having Mahamudra realisations during battle.

Malcolm wrote:
Ridiculous. One cannot have mahāmudra realizations whilst engaged in the slaughter of battle.

jmlee369 said:
Those in the know also understand Mao Zedong's true identity. After all, Mao's mother entrusted him into the care of Avalokitesvara when he was an infant - why would Avalokitesvara simply stand by and do nothing if this child would grow up to inflict true harm to the Buddhadharma?

Malcolm wrote:
Avalokiteśvara watched in silence while Dharma disappeared from India. This is some of the worst casuistry I have ever seen.

jmlee369 said:
Manjushri taught Ananda's disciples emptiness and caused them to be born in hell, yet the Buddha praised Manjushri's actions.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no. Ananda's disciple slandered the teachings they received, that's what caused them to be born in hell.

jmlee369 said:
This is all to say, the wondrous activities of the Buddhas and bodhisattvas cannot be judged by ordinary standards, and even the most terrible sufferings of sentient beings are the play of their own ripening karmic causes. As a dharma practitioner, we can't blame anyone or anything outside of ourselves.

Malcolm wrote:
Through this casuistry, you might as well argue that no one can ever commit negative karma through killing, stealing, and rape of another. After all, you just claimed that all suffering comes from ourselves. Certainly this is not the intention of the Buddha. Karmavipaka may be unerring, but it does not mean that we cannot be the victims of the nonvirtues of others. It does not mean, for example, that Hitler, Mao, and Stalin did not harm countless sentient beings.

jmlee369 said:
Dharma is not compatible with cultural relativism.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course it is, it's called upaya. Buddhadharma adapts itself to whatever culture it finds itself in.

jmlee369 said:
Cause and effect are infallible.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, which is why your reasoning above is so shallow. Genocidal leaders take birth in hell. There is no relativism here to be had, or excuse, "He was a bodhisattva, yet murdered thousands and millions."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 28th, 2020 at 9:43 AM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
Is that an actual functioning not merely conceptual thing or merely an abstraction?do Buddhas have minds?I think not.I also heard from nyanasagara that in Jnana there is no subjective awareness or appearances.So How do Buddhas act and interact with the world without a mind or perception?

Malcolm wrote:
Spontaneously, in accord with the needs of sentient beings.

Artziebetter1 said:
this explains what he does but not how.without a Mind or receptacle for past volition and Merit,without cognition,interaction could basically never occur.What is Jnana?is it a type of mind?is it an abstraction talking about how a Buddha acts with 5 wisdoms despite having no Mind?

Malcolm wrote:
Based on his past aspirations while a bodhisattva on the path. A Buddhas gnosis is a consciousness that has become free of limitations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 28th, 2020 at 5:32 AM
Title: Re: Copper Colored mountain location?
Content:
Tenma said:
And if it truly is Buddhist, why isn't Buddhism there anymore...

Malcolm wrote:
Why did Buddhism die out in India?

Anyway, all evidence suggests that anthropologically, rakṣasas were a tribe of ocean-going cannibals. They used to be the dominant people in Śṛī Lanka, before they were all exterminated from that island by Indians. The mythos of Ravana, Dasagriva being defeated and the rakṣasas being driven out is a deep Indian cultural trope, not confined to Hindus, but very prevalent in Buddhist sources as well.

Tenma said:
Considering that there are rituals and mantras for "warding away rakṣasas," wouldn't you say that this is a pretty racist usage, to drive away people whom you consider "savages" or "mythical demons?" If there is a prayer that asks for "God to drive out the Amazonian Natives" from their rainforest homes, would you not say this is a similar usage?

Malcolm wrote:
There isn't much literature that isn't more racist than the Mahāvamsa, the telling of the Buddhist subjugation of the indigenous population of Śṛī Lanka in the second century BCE by King Dutugamunu, but Rama's war against Ravana and his cannibal legions predates it by many centuries, how many, we just don't know, perhaps around 1,000 BCE. Supposedly, the earliest portions of the Ramayāna date from around 700-500 BCE.

However, by the time such myths arrived in Tibet they have been so divorced from actual historical content, that their racism does not exist for Tibetans, who considered themselves, in one telling, to be descendants of srin pos and monkeys.

So much history, so much racism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 28th, 2020 at 4:47 AM
Title: Re: Copper Colored mountain location?
Content:
Tenma said:
And if it truly is Buddhist, why isn't Buddhism there anymore...

Malcolm wrote:
Why did Buddhism die out in India?

Anyway, all evidence suggests that anthropologically, rakṣasas were a tribe of ocean-going cannibals. They used to be the dominant people in Śṛī Lanka, before they were all exterminated from that island by Indians. The mythos of Ravana, Dasagriva being defeated and the rakṣasas being driven out is a deep Indian cultural trope, not confined to Hindus, but very prevalent in Buddhist sources as well.

One interesting factoid: the language of Madagascar has only one cognate language in the world——the language of the headhunters of Borneo.

Madagascar was colonized by Indians during the 8th century, who established colonies of Indian merchants on the island. Templeman speculates it was they who hired him to tame the indigenous people, known to us as "rakṣasa."

Northern Afghanistan used to be Shambhala. There isn't Buddhism there anymore either...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 28th, 2020 at 1:41 AM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
Is that an actual functioning not merely conceptual thing or merely an abstraction?do Buddhas have minds?I think not.I also heard from nyanasagara that in Jnana there is no subjective awareness or appearances.So How do Buddhas act and interact with the world without a mind or perception?

Malcolm wrote:
Spontaneously, in accord with the needs of sentient beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 27th, 2020 at 6:11 AM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:


Artziebetter1 said:
Show me sources that a Buddha has subjective awareness .

Malcolm wrote:
They have two kinds of omniscience, hence they possess subjective awareness. They are not inert.

Artziebetter1 said:
If that’s the case then I don’t fear nirvana. But I thought the sutras say they have no sensation or wisdom contact anymore and also the alaya ceases so what’s left of a buddha?

Malcolm wrote:
Nondual jñāna, gnosis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 27th, 2020 at 2:14 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen meditation
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
If you have not had direct introduction and then ascertained the mind essence, you can sit in "open awareness" as long as you want and it will not be the practice of Dzogpachenpo. So if you are serious, find a master and then do what they say.


Sonnald said:
Hi all!

For those who may be familiar with the Dzogchen tradition and its main open awareness meditation, I’ve become aware of different suggestions as to how long sittings should be. Some say that the sittings should be short (5-10 minutes) and more frequent so as to support the ease and effortlessness of the approach, and to dissolve egoic tendencies through ‘nonmeditation’. Others say that sittings should be longer (30-45 minutes) as habitual tendencies are ingrained over a number of years and so should be tackled with more sitting. I’m not too sure where I stand on this, and so would much appreciate any help or suggestions from those of you who are practiced in the Dzogchen tradition and could help to shed light on this particular aspect of the practice

All the best

Sonny


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 25th, 2020 at 9:21 PM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:


PeterC said:
I think the broader point the chart was making was that we greatly overweight the risk of terrorism.  Which is clearly the case.

Malcolm wrote:
They missed the category of death by incompetent political leadership.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 25th, 2020 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: Tribute to: Longde before Dzin Dharmabodhi?
Content:
yagmort said:
... I have also heard a tiny part of the instructions of the Master that originated in Drāmiḍa, and that was transmitted through Indian scholars. Although I have not actually seen the historical texts that tell the Indian tales, the tales are included in the texts of the history of our lineage of teachers, both scholars and masters. I have also seen many texts that contain the history of the spread of the Dharma to Drāmiḍa...
any info on Drāmiḍa?

MiphamFan said:
Malcolm speculated Zangdog Palri could be Madagascar.

Malcolm wrote:
David Templeman, actually. But I think his argument is sensible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 25th, 2020 at 3:21 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Well, imagine an action thriller based on the danger of heart disease...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 24th, 2020 at 6:31 AM
Title: Re: The Orgyen Nyendrup lineage
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Thank you for your reply Malcolm. Thank you also for your hard work translating this monumental text.

So it is still a living lineage? Perhaps I am doing something wrong but I can find no information to that effect on the Internet.

Are you aware of any links, etc. that would provide a brief overview suitable for a non-initiate?

Malcolm wrote:
Not translating that text specifically, I am working on the Sakyapa material.

Yes, it is a living lineage, but it is not an independent lineage, like Chod, Zhije, or Kadampa.

Orgyenpa was the 3rd Karmapa's guru, and this teaching is mainly found in the Karma Kagyu school.

There is a synopsis of Orgyen Nyendrup here:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 24th, 2020 at 6:03 AM
Title: Re: The Orgyen Nyendrup lineage
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Orgyen Nyendrup is one of the "eight lineages of accomplishment" but I can find almost no detailed information about it.

Although the Rime master Jamgön Kongtrul preserved information on all eight lineages in the Treasury of Precious Instructions, the volume on Orgyen Nyendrup has not yet been translated into English. The internet seems to have very little specific information on the nature or practices of the lineage, other than listing it among the eight.

It also appears to have gone extinct in medieval times with a broken lineage. Perhaps the only place information is to be found is in Jamgön Kongtrul's writings.

Does anyone have any information on this seemingly "lost lineage"?

Malcolm wrote:
It is not lost or broken at all. It concerns the practice of Kalacakra. As one of the translators on this project (volume 5 and 6), I can assure you it will be translated and is forthcoming.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 24th, 2020 at 3:09 AM
Title: Re: Where is this mantra from? Rainbow light/rainbow blessing/yera/water dakini rainbow blessing mantra
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It is not a Buddhist mantra either. Must be a new age "terma."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 23rd, 2020 at 10:51 PM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Queequeg said:
As the time ticks down, Trumpists are approaching purity of their essential nature... stripped of any illusion of power, all that's left is a cranky disposition.

Malcolm wrote:
The essential part is the delusion of power.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 23rd, 2020 at 9:09 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
amanitamusc said:
AOC is disgusted and rightly so.She is stuck in a right wing party cooperating with the  extreme right republicans.The two party system is moving further to the right as time goes on.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, because people don’t vote.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 23rd, 2020 at 1:28 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Now for Pelosi’s sake, she seems to have a connection to the Dalai Lama; which is good. She likely only participated not knowing what she’s doing and just thinking that she’s doing something “liberal”; but maybe I’m wrong. Any connection is better than none.

Malcolm wrote:
Pelosi has been a supporter of HHDL for many years.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 23rd, 2020 at 1:25 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Working class and populist people in both main parties seem close to grabbing tar, feathers, torches & pitchforks.

People should have been going Independent, Libertarian, Green, and Constitutional Party all these years, instead of supporting corporate neocon rinos and neoliberal democrats.

Malcolm wrote:
Thats just not where the center of power is. America has a two party system. It always has. We are witnessing the birth of the seventh party system. The likelihood of a third party ever emerging which is capable of challenging the two main parties' is exceedingly small. It is necessary to understand this and accept it. Voting for third parties is a waste of time. Put in candidates in the party of one's choice who reflect one's positions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 21st, 2020 at 8:02 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I'm not wishing for it right away, I'm complaining that the mainstream of the party is out of step with the positions of it's base, that's where the subject came up.

Malcolm wrote:
It is really as simple as who controls the senate and the house. Right now, it is split. Until McConnell either drops dead, retires, or loses his majority leader position, it will be very hard to bring any progressive legislation to the table and expect it to pass. This is simply a matter of pragmatism. This does not mean I want Bernie or the Squad to shut up. Far from it, they need to rattle the cages of congress loudly and often. And, the progressive base is a but a (loud) minority fraction of the constituency of the US. Pragmatism in the end dictates very little will happen that favors the progressive agenda in the next four years. Blame the people of the US, not the parties, and not the media.

PeterC said:
McConnell is a good illustration of why the democrats need to change their entire approach.

The role of senate majority leader is not defined in the constitution, any law or any rules resolution of the senate. It is purely customary. The Vice President as leader of the senate recognizes the senate majority leader when senate business commences, who for that reason has the power to set the agenda. No written rule requires the VP to do that.

Suppose Kamala Harris was VP of a Republican senate.  Nothing stops her from recognizing a Democrat, who could then introduce legislation. Sure, the republicans could then vote it down, but they would have to vote.  What McConnell does is avoid having people like Lisa Murkowski embarrass themselves by voting down popular legislation: he simply keeps it off the floor. This would result in a lot of marginal legislation actually getting passed.  Of course the republicans would describe this as an unprecedented breach of rules and norms but...they have been doing that in so many ways for over a decade with the senate.

If they want to start putting wins on the board, they need to start playing by the new rules.

Malcolm wrote:
It would just be simpler for GA to go blue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 21st, 2020 at 4:57 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Those 73.4 million people who voted for Trump aren't worried about courting the middle like that, and neither are politicians on the right. The Democrats have to develop some talking points around policies beyond "slightly nicer looking version of the status quo"...otherwise the Biden presidency is going to be an anomaly.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. and if this is the case, and another Trumpster comes to power, at that time one might consider it time to find a residence in some other, more sane country.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 21st, 2020 at 4:55 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I'm not wishing for it right away, I'm complaining that the mainstream of the party is out of step with the positions of it's base, that's where the subject came up.

Malcolm wrote:
It is really as simple as who controls the senate and the house. Right now, it is split. Until McConnell either drops dead, retires, or loses his majority leader position, it will be very hard to bring any progressive legislation to the table and expect it to pass. This is simply a matter of pragmatism. This does not mean I want Bernie or the Squad to shut up. Far from it, they need to rattle the cages of congress loudly and often. And, the progressive base is a but a (loud) minority fraction of the constituency of the US. Pragmatism in the end dictates very little will happen that favors the progressive agenda in the next four years. Blame the people of the US, not the parties, and not the media.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 21st, 2020 at 4:48 AM
Title: Re: Hi from a South African Gelugpa!
Content:
WhispersOfGanden said:
Hi everyone, I’m a South African Dharma practitioner in the Ganden lineage. This forum is so vast! Wonderful to be a member.


Malcolm wrote:
As long as you don't belong to the ghost worshipper school...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 21st, 2020 at 2:54 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
So if you insist on me accepting that these things are just "idealism", then yeah, that is that.

Malcolm wrote:
"Idealism" in her case means wishing to have universal health care passed right away in a country where 73.4 million Americans voted for a fascist. Don't get me wrong, in the ideal world, all of these progressive ideas would have happened in 2009. However, there is the small matter of Republicans to deal with first. Hopefully, for the benefit of the world, the GOP will splinter into irreconcilable factions, and hopefully, they will actually lose in GA. Then maybe some idealism will be possible. But with Moscow Mitch as majority leader in the Senate, well. we've seen what 14 years of that has brought.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 21st, 2020 at 2:07 AM
Title: Re: 45 missing children recovered during statewide anti human trafficking operation in ohio
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
The sad thing is, this objectively wonderful thing, the children recovered, will by spun by QAnidiots as proof of their conspiracies, which often largely centre around child trafficking.

Malcolm wrote:
Its just a new form of blood libel. Democrats = Jews.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 21st, 2020 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:


Queequeg said:
But we need something else, too. As people, we're broken. We need to build back trust in each other.

Malcolm wrote:
There was no trust among the thirteen colonies, why should we expect there to be trust now?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 20th, 2020 at 10:02 PM
Title: Re: Correction: 12/20 is Nine Bad Omens Day
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
This wouldn’t apply to astronauts in outer space because they would see that there are no actual nights and days, that it’s just a matter of whether your side of the Earth is facing away from or toward the Sun. It’s like saying one side of a constantly spinning prayer wheel is more auspicious than the other, when in fact, it’s a rotating cylinder.

karmanyingpo said:
You are right that if a Vajrayana Dharma practitioner went out to space it would not apply. However I do think we should not discard these things as fake because I know that astrology is taught as a part of the kalachakra system

KN

Malcolm wrote:
Kalacakra also says karma outweighs astrology.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 20th, 2020 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
the corporate folks that basically make policy? That's just politics.

Malcolm wrote:
Hey corporations are people too....come on...

The fact is that Republican trickle down economics are the main thing that have gutted the middle class, not globalization.

You want $20 an hour minimum wage and universal health care? Raise taxes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 20th, 2020 at 3:38 AM
Title: Re: Why do monks reside in temples
Content:
tingdzin said:
This is an interesting discussion, but the fact is that we can never know what "Original Buddhism" was like, and the urge to say it was either this or that is usually based on peoples' preconceptions, and desires of what they think it should have been.

Pointing to masonry structures at traditionally Buddhist sites as evidence that Buddha's followers lived in them from the beginning, however, is pretty risky; a lot of Buddhist sites that have been excavated show considerable changes over the centuries as shown in different historical strata. Sites like Jetavanarama may be nothing like they were when the Buddha was around. As Malcolm pointed out, stone structures are not the same as grass huts, and to take the pictures of Buddha's alleged retreat dwelling as even approximating the footprint of what he stayed in requires a huge leap of faith. Yes, the Harappan civilization used stone, but we cannot assume that the Gangetic Plain civilizations followed suit and maintained a cultural continuity in that way unless there is some evidence, which there is not. It's a big mistake to think of "Indian civilization" a s a unified whole, especially in the earliest periods..

As far as the Vinaya, everyone knows there are many versions. Pace Aemilius, I don't know of any modern scholar who thinks there is a single authoritative Vinaya that used to be longer than the existing versions. The quotes from the Chinese may refer to the Dharmaguptakas, as they were the most important school in the early period of translation, being gradually superseded by the Sarvastivadins. It's also important to remember that Vinayas were not written down for a long, long time -- the earliest Chinese converts expressed exasperation that the Indian and Central Asian monks they were getting Buddhist texts from did not have "hard copies" of the Vinaya, it being based wholly on memorization.

Bronkhurst's and Schopen's books are quite interesting, and certainly prompt one to re-examine assumptions about early Buddhism and the actual historical evidence we have, or don't have, in relation to the received tradition. For my money, one of Bronkhurst's most useful observations is that Buddhism cannot be seen as a derivative of or a reaction to "Hinduism", because the two germinated in different geographic regions and subcultures of the Indian subcontinent.  I also think it is undeniable that Buddhism underwent huge changes in institutional structure during the Maurya and Kushan periods.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 20th, 2020 at 3:36 AM
Title: Re: Why do monks reside in temples
Content:
Aemilius said:
Looking at the magnificent ruins of the cities of the Indus Valley Civilisation, I find it ludicurous to think that after that the Indian culture went backwards several thousands of years to a  primitive level of building!

Malcolm wrote:
Primitive? There is nothing primitive about thatch and wood structures. You can't build or maintain one. So who is primitive now? Honestly, your cultural bias is showing, better zip up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 20th, 2020 at 3:33 AM
Title: Re: Why do monks reside in temples
Content:
Aemilius said:
Indians were already building houses from bricks  during the Indus valley civilisation, that is 1700...
2500 BCE. The oldest stone temples also come from this era.  The desriptions in Vinaya that involve monks making bricks are consistent with the house building techniques that existed in Northern India at the time of Buddha.

Malcolm wrote:
Have you ever seen how long a mudbrick structure lasts without being maintained? Even with adobe, not very long, and then only in dry climates.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-old-adobe-ranch-buildings-in-taos-new-mexico-33836027.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 20th, 2020 at 3:15 AM
Title: Re: 8 months of no rain!
Content:


DNS said:
The best weather in the U.S. is in the Southwestern states from about West Texas to San Diego.

Malcolm wrote:
Today, not in 20 years.



Basically, the region between the 40th and 50th parallel is the safest best for long term climate viability. Everything below the 40th parallel will become too hot for comfort.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 19th, 2020 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: AOC Says Democrats , Pelosi and Schumer 'Need to Go'
Content:
Queequeg said:
The Tom Haydens look like mainstream democrats that make Progressives sneer.

Malcolm wrote:
A nicer way to put it is there is conflict between idealism and pragmatism. The idealists seem
Impractical to the pragmatists, and the pragmatists seem like hypocrites to the idealists.

“A more perfect union” means we are always failing, but we keep trying.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 19th, 2020 at 10:41 AM
Title: Re: 8 months of no rain!
Content:


tingdzin said:
And, as with Germany, the Rocky Mountains have vast areas where the trees are ill both from lack of water and from heat, which has allowed massive invasion of beetles -- one reason, besides the temperatures, for the huge fires this year.

Malcolm wrote:
The Northeast US, especially the mid-Atlantic region, is set to be a global climate sweet spot for the next 50 years, as the West dries out and precipitation increases in the Northeast. Expect an eastward migration which results in NY-DC megapolis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 19th, 2020 at 9:19 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Rainbow body has never been empirically verified, unlike thugdam.
What’s “thugdam”?

Malcolm wrote:
When someone is clinically dead, but their body does not become livid and retains warmth for days and even weeks, presumably because they are in a state of samadhi.

There are medical teams now dispatched to observe this phenomena and in the past month two Gelug monks have shown this result.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 19th, 2020 at 6:17 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Is rainbow body visible or invisible?
You mean the shrinking of a body? That’s irrelevant to Madhyamaka. Nobody attains rainbow body through Madhyamaka.
Is it “just one’s feeling”? Or is it objectively verifiable? (Assuming that is you’re in proximity to see it.)

Malcolm wrote:
Rainbow body has never been empirically verified, unlike thugdam.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 19th, 2020 at 5:53 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
When it comes to Madhyamaka, its about what it is in the text, not in someone's invisible realization.
Is rainbow body visible or invisible?

Malcolm wrote:
You mean the shrinking of a body? That’s irrelevant to Madhyamaka. Nobody attains rainbow body through Madhyamaka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 19th, 2020 at 5:35 AM
Title: Re: 8 months of no rain!
Content:
DNS said:
Las Vegas broke it's own record for the longest dry streak of no measurable rain.

240 days of no rain, until today when it finally rained. I believe this is the longest dry streak of no rain for any large city in the U.S., since they started keeping records.

https://www.weather.gov/vef/2020DryStreak

Malcolm wrote:
You've really got to improve your sutta recitations for good fortune.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 19th, 2020 at 5:34 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
One of your gurus was HHDL’s designated rainmaker. Do you believe he was actually capable of weather control?

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, but I would not stake your belief in this on my belief. These are just my feelings. They are not objective.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
But it’s not the only way.

Malcolm wrote:
When it comes to Madhyamaka, its about what it is in the text, not in someone's invisible realization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 19th, 2020 at 1:41 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
My point is that SY makes a lot of confident proclamations...but has nothing more to back them up than their feelings. I am sure you understand why someone would not really be comfortable with this.
One of your gurus was HHDL’s designated rainmaker. Do you believe he was actually capable of weather control?


Malcolm wrote:
Sure, but I would not stake your belief in this on my belief. These are just my feelings. They are not objective.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 19th, 2020 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: The passing of Tsikey Chökling Rinpoche
Content:
heart said:
It is so sad. I will miss him.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
The final lesson of all buddhas, all compounded phenomena are impermanent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 19th, 2020 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I’ll listen to somebody that has properly studied emptiness, but I’ll follow someone who can sit in it.

Malcolm wrote:
Assuming you are not clairvoyant, would you know the difference between one and the other?

conebeckham said:
This was sort of my point.  It all starts with "listening," which is all we can do initially, with any teacher.  I include spending time with a guru as "listening," as well.  I know you're not implying anything about any specific teacher.  As Kongtrul said, in advice to prospective retreatants, one should respect the Vajra Master "Who performs the activities of the Buddhas in front of you" (I am paraphrasing here).   It's not merely the words a guru speaks, nor is it merely the ritual gestures of empowerment, etc.  At the end of the day, though, faith and confidence in a teacher is something that can't be measured or explained.

Malcolm wrote:
My point is that SY makes a lot of confident proclamations...but has nothing more to back them up than their feelings. I am sure you understand why someone would not really be comfortable with this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 18th, 2020 at 8:18 PM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I’ll listen to somebody that has properly studied emptiness, but I’ll follow someone who can sit in it.

Malcolm wrote:
Assuming you are not clairvoyant, would you know the difference between one and the other?

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
In my life I believe I have met enlightened masters. I will leave it at that.

Malcolm wrote:
So you can’t actually tell the difference between one and the other, you just “feel” there is a difference between one person and another. Glad to know your standards are so rigorous.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 18th, 2020 at 10:23 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I’ll listen to somebody that has properly studied emptiness, but I’ll follow someone who can sit in it.

Malcolm wrote:
Assuming you are not clairvoyant, would you know the difference between one and the other?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 7:48 PM
Title: Re: Why do monks reside in temples
Content:


neander said:
prof. Schopen's  article explains the following as far as I understand:

There is no archeological evidence of Buddhist monasteries during Ashoka ,

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, there is no evidence of Buddhist monasteries with stone structures prior to 350 CE because Indians did not start buildings structures out of stone until comparatively late, around 350 CE. This cannot and does exclude viharas with wooden and thatch structures, evidence of which doesn’t survive well in the humid, hot climate of India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 6:46 PM
Title: Re: My sentiments, exactly
Content:
Brunelleschi said:
Imagine being so culturally colonised that you sit down and write this even though you live in Europe

Malcolm wrote:
Britain’s divorced Europe, or hadn’t you heard?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 5:54 PM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Not below the path of seeing.

cloudburst said:
not totally, no, same as every other method.

Malcolm wrote:
There are many other faults of this monopole negation. You can read Gorampa , Ganden Chopel, Mipham etc., yourself and discover what they are.

cloudburst said:
I have discovered what these authors believe they are, I dont find them impressive. The supposed faults, that is. Mipham I enjoy quite a bit.

The truth is, Je Tsongkhapa's method is perfect, but if you are ideologically invested in not seeing it, you wont see it.

Malcolm wrote:
Tsongkhapa’s approach to Madhyamaka is ok, it just has some holes, and one of those is the monopole negation. No Gelugpa has ever successfully rebutted Gorampa’s critique of Tsongkhapa’s novelties, but we’ve had this discussion before. And Tsongkhapa has even been challenged within his own school.

Mipham largely bases his arguments on Gorampa.

Now, what does any of this have to do with the OP?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 11:07 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Existence, bhava, and the rest. In other words, it is not sufficient to negate only svabhava.

tobes said:
Svabhava entails the grasping to existence. If it is negated, so too is the grasping to existence.

cloudburst said:
precisely.

Malcolm wrote:
Not below the path of seeing. There are many other faults of this monopole negation. You can read Gorampa , Ganden Chopel, Mipham etc., yourself and discover what they are.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 11:04 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:


tobes said:
Thanks for this condescension  Malcolm, I had until this point really believed that I was the only one who has listened to a Gelug view....

Malcolm wrote:
Based on your comments above, could one draw some other conclusion?

I would suggest at this point the thread has reached a natural conclusion.

tobes said:
Agreed. Why am I on the internet trying to help you appreciate a tradition you have never shown respect for?? I should know better.....

Malcolm wrote:
Dude, you are tripping. I have actually spent time energetically rejecting unfair criticisms of Tsongkhapa’s view by Nyingma partisans, such as the idea that one cannot successfully practice Dzogchen if one’s understanding of Madhyamaka is derived from the Gelug tradition. So buzz off, you really have no idea what you are talking about and to whom you are speaking. Get a clue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 11:01 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:



tobes said:
Are you suggesting that Chandrakirit always refuses lunch?

Malcolm wrote:
No, I am suggesting he didn’t analyze his lunch at all.

tobes said:
But nonetheless he still ate it.

Malcolm wrote:
Because it was not a subject of analysis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 10:40 AM
Title: Re: PERSONAL OPINIONS: Can people who don't practice buddhism enlighten
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
I think it's a specious ecumenism that says "all religions basically get to the same place", or words to that effect...

I think in fact that we do a disservice to all religions--both ours and the others--by failing to recognize the very real, substantive differences between them.  I think it's only in that recognition that we can come to a genuine ecumenism.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, hence HHDL’s POV that the only place Buddhadharma meets other religions is the necessity of compassion, and even there, compassion, as conceived by other religions is quite limited.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 10:29 AM
Title: Re: Abrahamic religions and Buddhism
Content:


PeterC said:
So they go and wander around in nature, read Thomas Aquinas, study the Kabbalah, immerse themselves in Ralph Waldo Emerson, whatever, add a light seasoning of out-of-context Buddhist quotes, ideas about love and metta, and think they've discovered the 'real' Dharma.  Then they talk to actual Dharma teachers who have studied it for a long time, and they find that their exciting, liberated, spiritual ideas don't have a lot to do with what these people teach, so they decide that these people are trapped in their antiquated, dogmatic ideas, and that they themselves have discovered the 'true Dharma' in this new age concoction.

Malcolm wrote:
Sounds like a Facebook “Dharma.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 10:00 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:


tobes said:
Thanks for this condescension  Malcolm, I had until this point really believed that I was the only one who has listened to a Gelug view....

Malcolm wrote:
Based on your comments above, could one draw some other conclusion?

I would suggest at this point the thread has reached a natural conclusion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 9:57 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:



tobes said:
Yes, but if the subtle of object of negation is successfully negated, then the course one cannot still abide.

The idea that it somehow still can, is - as I have been suggesting at length - grounded in an entirely outsider/critics approach, based entirely on reading texts such as the Lam Rim Chen Mo, divorced from any real practical Gelug context. It is actually very tiresome. It is not different, in my opinion, to a Theravada or Zen practitioner coming onto the Dzogchen thread and making all sorts of claims based on their reading of Dzogchen texts......whilst having no DI or authentic relationship to the tradition. One can only say: this is a very fabricated conceptual proliferation.

In reality, Gelug Madhyamaka is transmitted, not merely read, not merely studied textually. And it will be transmitted in different ways depending on the dispositions of the disciple. This is why the cartoon version does not fly: it refuses upaya even though all this questions are, in the final analysis, matters of upaya.

And: anytime I have received a transmission, the table goes. Full stop. No one leaves the existence of the table untouched, no matter how much you keep reasserting this.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure they do, they call it “mere” existence, nominal existence, existence by designation, etc.,

“Not existent in the ultimate, not nonexistent in then relative.”

tobes said:
Are you suggesting that Chandrakirit always refuses lunch?

Malcolm wrote:
No, I am suggesting he didn’t analyze his lunch at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 7:53 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
tobes said:
In reality, Gelug Madhyamaka is transmitted...

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, there is a discussion, but it is not some kind of direct introduction. In fact Tsongkhapa negates the whole idea of direct introduction. One still has to engage in ones own analysis, the Geshe does not do it for you. For the record, you are not the only person who has listened to Gelug view presented by a Geshe. HHDL has literally hundreds of hours of Madhyamaka teachings one can listen to. It’s a little incredible you don’t take this into account.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 17th, 2020 at 7:47 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:



tobes said:
It doesn't show this.

Only in the cartoon Gelug presentation.....where this is all and only a philosophy glass bead game.

"You've left existence untouched!"

Well, no. If something is dependently arisen, it has never existed. So, seeing appearances as dependent arisings after the negation of svabhava in no way implies existence.

Malcolm wrote:
All that is negated in the Gelug presentation is svabhava,  not bhava, meaning that for them, the ultimate is a nonexistent and the relative is an existent. They never directly negate the table, only the table”s svabhava.

Tsongkhapa’s point of view is laid out very clearly in Lam Rim Chen mo. What I am saying is noncontroversial

In fact, Tsongkhapa makes this the key point of his system, claiming that one should  not use the coarse object of negation, existence (contra Candra), and only the subtle object of negation, inherent existence. This why his view slides towards the extreme of nonexistence, just as gzhan stong slides towards the extreme of existence, and is why the two positions are reflections of each other,

tobes said:
Yes, but if the subtle of object of negation is successfully negated, then the course one cannot still abide.

The idea that it somehow still can, is - as I have been suggesting at length - grounded in an entirely outsider/critics approach, based entirely on reading texts such as the Lam Rim Chen Mo, divorced from any real practical Gelug context. It is actually very tiresome. It is not different, in my opinion, to a Theravada or Zen practitioner coming onto the Dzogchen thread and making all sorts of claims based on their reading of Dzogchen texts......whilst having no DI or authentic relationship to the tradition. One can only say: this is a very fabricated conceptual proliferation.

In reality, Gelug Madhyamaka is transmitted, not merely read, not merely studied textually. And it will be transmitted in different ways depending on the dispositions of the disciple. This is why the cartoon version does not fly: it refuses upaya even though all this questions are, in the final analysis, matters of upaya.

And: anytime I have received a transmission, the table goes. Full stop. No one leaves the existence of the table untouched, no matter how much you keep reasserting this.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure they do, they call it “mere” existence, nominal existence, existence by designation, etc.,

“Not existent in the ultimate, not nonexistent in then relative.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 16th, 2020 at 9:12 PM
Title: Re: Is there a universal consciousness?
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
even though I suppose it’s possible.

karmanyingpo said:
Hello Dharma friend I was grateful for your response on other threads so thank you if I did not already say so
I am curious about the possibility of a universal consciousness from a buddhist perspective. You seem to be knowledgable so I wonder if you might know any teachings or scriptures that can be interprable as talking about a universal consciousness?

KN

Supramundane said:
No one here seems to like the term universal; however, there is reference in the sutras to "original mind". This is a mind which is 'shining, luminous and permanent'. Various sutras make reference to such luminosity of mind, although they never use the term universal; nonetheless, universal does not seem too far from the concept of an original mind. (at the time of the Buddha, I doubt if there was such a word as 'universal').

there are meditative states in which one is aware of awareness. In such a state, there are no thought formations and thus, some may call it an original mind. All  people are capable of experiencing  this meditative state. Is this Universal enough?:)

Malcolm wrote:
As a generic quality, it is universal, just like all fires are hot, but there is no absolute universal fire.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 16th, 2020 at 7:25 PM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:



tobes said:
Svabhava entails the grasping to existence. If it is negated, so too is the grasping to existence.

Malcolm wrote:
No, as Tsongkhapa’s reformulation of the twin negation shows.
IIf it were, Nagarjuna wound not have insisted on the fourfold negation.

tobes said:
It doesn't show this.

Only in the cartoon Gelug presentation.....where this is all and only a philosophy glass bead game.

"You've left existence untouched!"

Well, no. If something is dependently arisen, it has never existed. So, seeing appearances as dependent arisings after the negation of svabhava in no way implies existence.

Malcolm wrote:
All that is negated in the Gelug presentation is svabhava,  not bhava, meaning that for them, the ultimate is a nonexistent and the relative is an existent. They never directly negate the table, only the table”s svabhava.

Tsongkhapa’s point of view is laid out very clearly in Lam Rim Chen mo. What I am saying is noncontroversial

In fact, Tsongkhapa makes this the key point of his system, claiming that one should  not use the coarse object of negation, existence (contra Candra), and only the subtle object of negation, inherent existence. This why his view slides towards the extreme of nonexistence, just as gzhan stong slides towards the extreme of existence, and is why the two positions are reflections of each other,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 16th, 2020 at 10:58 AM
Title: Re: My sentiments, exactly
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
Sounds like the song about the Grinch.

PeterC said:
The only thing he stole was one christmas.  These people got away with four years...

Malcolm wrote:
Not only that, but Trump ran over little Cindy Lou Who.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 16th, 2020 at 10:20 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
tobes said:
I mean, if the object of Madhyamaka critique/negation is not svabhava, then what else could it possibly be?

Malcolm wrote:
Existence, bhava, and the rest. In other words, it is not sufficient to negate only svabhava.

tobes said:
Svabhava entails the grasping to existence. If it is negated, so too is the grasping to existence.

Malcolm wrote:
No, as Tsongkhapa’s reformulation of the twin negation shows.
IIf it were, Nagarjuna wound not have insisted on the fourfold negation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 16th, 2020 at 10:18 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
tobes said:
The truly great Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo....was Shakya & Shentong(ish).

Malcolm wrote:
Not really a gzhan stong pa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 16th, 2020 at 9:19 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
tobes said:
I mean, if the object of Madhyamaka critique/negation is not svabhava, then what else could it possibly be?

Malcolm wrote:
Existence, bhava, and the rest. In other words, it is not sufficient to negate only svabhava.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 16th, 2020 at 6:53 AM
Title: Re: Shentong vs. Prasangika and consistency
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Correcting, he was commenting on Maitreyanātha, but he insisted on calling his system "dbu ma chen po" (like every other Tibetan from the time of Kawa Paltsek, including Tsongkhapa) And he was commenting on Nagārjuna, but very much in the tradition of earlier Yogacārins like Dharmapāla and Ratnakaraśanti, who tried to reconcile Madhyamaka and Yogacāra.
He used Yogacara’s lexicon of 3 Natures.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, much in the same way as Dharmapāla and Ratnakaraśanti try to reconcile the three natures with the two truths.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 16th, 2020 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:



tobes said:
I've never heard any Gelugpa negate intrinsic existence only to discover the thing remains.....

Malcolm wrote:
So mere existence is negated? It isn't left over?

What about "Not existing in the ultimate, not not existing the relative?" This after all is Tsongkhapa's famous formulation of the negation of existence and nonexistence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 16th, 2020 at 5:37 AM
Title: Re: Shentong vs. Prasangika and consistency
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Chandrakirti and Tsongkhapa were commenting on Nagarjuna. Dolpopa was elaborating on Asanga. Apples and oranges.

Malcolm wrote:
Correcting, he was commenting on Maitreyanātha, but he insisted on calling his system "dbu ma chen po" (like every other Tibetan from the time of Kawa Paltsek, including Tsongkhapa) And he was commenting on Nagārjuna, but very much in the tradition of earlier Yogacārins like Dharmapāla and Ratnakaraśanti, who tried to reconcile Madhyamaka and Yogacāra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 15th, 2020 at 11:36 PM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Arguably, Tsongkhapa’s Madhyamaka can be seen as an overreaction gzhan stong, Tsongkhapa’s teacher decried gzhan stong as basically kya Lamas like Rongton and Gorampa had a more level head, considering it a transitional teaching from Yogacara to pure Madhyamaka, I.e higher than yogacara, lower than Madhyamaka.
Now that idea I hadn’t heard before.

Malcolm wrote:
You weren't paying attention, I have stated this many times before.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 15th, 2020 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
In that Tsongkhapa accepts a limited validity to interdependent phenomena?

Malcolm wrote:
No, in that tables are empty of something other than the table. Tables are not empty of relative existence, only ultimate existence, which is something other than the table, hence, inverted gzhan stong.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Okay. Got it.

Cute.

Malcolm wrote:
Arguably, Tsongkhapa’s Madhyamaka can be seen as an overreaction gzhan stong, Tsongkhapa’s teacher decried gzhan stong as basically nonBuddhist.

Other Sakya Lamas like Rongton and Gorampa had a more level head, considering it a transitional teaching from Yogacara to pure Madhyamaka, I.e higher than yogacara, lower than Madhyamaka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 15th, 2020 at 9:14 PM
Title: My sentiments, exactly
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Found on Facebook:

British-Indian novelist Hari Kunzru:

"Mike Pence you repressed joyless would-be witchfinder, every time you spoke you always looked like you were straining to expel an enormous bolus of your own hypocrisy from your clenched sphincter.

“Betsy DeVos you blandly foolish soulless entitled child-stealing witch, rotting like a corpse inside your Chanel suit.

“All the generals, you spineless buzz-cut phallus-brained plastic Spartans fawning and wriggling to distract yourself from your moral cowardice.

“Kayleigh McEnenay, you evacuated husk of a mean-girl cheerleader, the cavity where your heart once was pumped full of spite and moronic lies.

“Bill Barr you vast pompous pus-filled bladder of casuistry, you are an enemy of justice, bloated with resentment and cruelty, wobbling like a jelly at the feet of the oligarchs.

“Jared Kushner, you vacuous dainty preening overpromoted nub of mediocrity, squeezed like an entitled smear of toothpaste into a silk suit bought with tear-stained dollars wrung out of the suffering tenants of your slum apartments.

“Ivanka Trump, you monstrous slug of vanity, you infantile ninny so marinaded in self-regard that in your pea brain you believe we ought to love you for your crimes.

“Mike Pompeo, you bubble, you booby, you flatulent zero, that roiling in your ample guts that you mistake for world shaking significance is just the acid reflux of irrelevancy.

“Don Junior, you scabrous single-nostriled unloved elephant-murdering human wreckage, vibrating with bitterness and impotent rage at all the opportunities you’ve squandered.

“Sarah Sanders, you crude hulking beetle-browed bully, working your multiple chins as you masticated another stinking quid of falsity, spitting again and again on the people you were supposed to inform.

“Interlude: all you staffers and interns, so eager to crunch your way in your shiny new work shoes over the bodies of the poor and powerless, I smite you and cast you out one by one.

“Eric Trump, you pallid clammy suppurating nocturnal semi-human grub, your absence of charisma is your only notable trait and the act of flushing you from memory will so be smooth and painless that in a month people will find it hard to picture your moon face.

“Rudy Giuliani, you capering cartoonish skull-faced bag of graft and corruption, too stupid even to ask who’s pulling your strings just so long as you can cake your crusty face in tv make-up and clack your jaw at a camera.

“And of course Stephen Miller, you weeping pustule upon the social body, you dreg, you homunculus, you noxious slime felched from the gaping cavity of Jim Crow, one day may you find yourself walking barefoot across hot sand, desperate for water, crying for your missing child.

“With that I’ll rest a while, and go to find a street corner to dance on.”

He missed Sean Spicer, but I guess that’s ok after he humiliated himself on Dancing With The Stars.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 15th, 2020 at 8:55 PM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
In that Tsongkhapa accepts a limited validity to interdependent phenomena?

Malcolm wrote:
No, in that tables are empty of something other than the table. Tables are not empty of relative existence, only ultimate existence, which is something other than the table, hence, inverted gzhan stong.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 15th, 2020 at 8:53 PM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:


tobes said:
Also: if tables are empty of inherent existence, then they are necessarily also empty of being tables.

Malcolm wrote:
Not according to Gelug analysis— tables are not empty of mere existence as tables, only inherent existence, which is something other than the table itself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 15th, 2020 at 10:44 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I have no idea what that means.

Malcolm wrote:
It means that Tsongkhapa also argued for a kind of extrinsic emptiness. Tables aren’t empty of tables, they are only empty of inherent existence.

PeterC said:
Is this what Gendun Chopel criticized when he said that Tsonkhapa's formulation of the object of negation resulted in a completely pointless refutation?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, since Tsonglkhapa insisted that one only refutes something, inherent existence, that does not exist even conventionally, like the child  of a barren women.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 15th, 2020 at 10:07 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
It means that Tsongkhapa also argued for a kind of extrinsic emptiness. Tables aren’t empty of tables, they are only empty of inherent existence.
That’s a reasonable way to teach emptiness if you want people to continue looking both ways before crossing the street.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s still a kind of gzhan stong.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 15th, 2020 at 8:51 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
A common Sakya criticism of Tsongkhapa is that he was an "upside down" gzhan stong pa.
I have no idea what that means.

Malcolm wrote:
It means that Tsongkhapa also argued for a kind of extrinsic emptiness. Tables aren’t empty of tables, they are only empty of inherent existence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 15th, 2020 at 3:41 AM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:


Bristollad said:
they misunderstood Candrakirit and instead went with Tsongkhapa's invention

Malcolm wrote:
A common Sakya criticism of Tsongkhapa is that he was an "upside down" gzhan stong pa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 15th, 2020 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen prerequisite?
Content:
Jeff H said:
I’ve just been rereading ChNN's Gura Yoga and this sentence caught my eye:
on page 33 ChNN said:
If you do not have a connection with the teaching and with the transmission from previous lives, you can never enter the Dzogchen path.

Jeff H said:
Does this mean that only certain beings can ever enter Dzogchen? And if this sentence is to be taken literally, how did those beings come to have a connection in a previous life?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but there are many paths to full awakening. If one manages to achieve buddhahood by those means, one does not need Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 14th, 2020 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
What is salient here is that gzhan stong was quite popular with Nyingmapas in Central Tibet, but no effort was effort made to suppress Lochen Dharmashri’s works, because his patron was the Fifth Dalai Lama.
That is the first time you’ve admitted to Nyingmapas embracing Shentong.

Malcolm wrote:
Not at all. I just rejected your assertion that since both Dudjom R. And Dilgo R. were partial to it, it was the dominant Madhyamaka View of Nyingmapas. In fact the dominant Madhyamaka presentation is that of Rongzom, Longchenpa, and Mipham, none of whom can be described as gzhan stong. But this did not prevent gzhan stong from gaining currency among some nyingma and Sakya scholars.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 14th, 2020 at 10:41 PM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Jonang doesn’t understand Shentong as a take on Madhymaka?
Let’s just say that the Gelugpas persecuted the Jonang school as heretics because of their Shentong. I’m sure there is more to the story, but that was their pretext. Why the Karma Kagyu were not persecuted in the same was puzzles me. There’s something to the story that doesn’t make sense.

Malcolm wrote:
The Karma Kagyu school was put down much harder than Jonang, much harder, as a result of the defeat of the Karma Kagyu king of Tsang, who teamed up with eastern Tibetan bonpos in his attempt to overthrow the Lhasa gvt.. You should really read some detailed accounts of Tibetan history in the 17th century. It just so happens that the king of Tsang, Karma Tenkyong, also was a patron of Jonang. Arguably, the Sakyas escaped similar monastic censure in Western Tibet because of their distance and prestige. The Nyingmapas experienced an increase in fortunes during the same period, due to the patronage of the Great 5th. What is salient here is that gzhan stong was quite popular with Nyingmapas in Central Tibet, but no effort was effort made to suppress Lochen Dharmashri’s works, because his patron was the Fifth Dalai Lama.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 14th, 2020 at 10:30 PM
Title: Re: Kagyu lineage/school which teaches shentong mahamudra or dzogchen?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Jonang doesn’t understand Shentong as a take on Madhymaka?
Let’s just say that the Gelugpas persecuted the Jonang school as heretics because of their Shentong. I’m sure there is more to the story, but that was their pretext. Why the Karma Kagyu were not persecuted in the same was puzzles me. There’s something to the story that doesn’t make sense.

Malcolm wrote:
That is not correct. The Gelugpas would install a number of Gelug monks at rival monasteries within the administrative reach of the Lhasa gvt. So, Jonang and Gelug monks, or Sakya and Gelug monks, etc., would inhabit the same monasteries, each practicing their own tradition. What is true is that in Central Tibet, block prints of Taranatha, Dolbupa, Gorampa, the Karmapa, etc, any one who criticized Tsongkhapa were locked up and forbidden to be printed. Thus however did not prevent the distribution of manuscripts. The actual situation on the ground was far more complicated than your simplistic assessment would indicate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 14th, 2020 at 9:55 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
amanitamusc said:
One similarity the dems and repubs share is the need to bale out the major banks and insurance co's ect .

Malcolm wrote:
Never asserted Obama was the wisest person....


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 14th, 2020 at 9:53 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Shotenzenjin said:
Both parties are parties of the ruling class. Which Biden is a part of.so is trump

The Dems have a socialist section that would argue  otherwise for them. But they are a part of a party of the ruling class

Without a class analysis the conversation just is circles around a drain

Malcolm wrote:
People have been analyzing class at least since Plato. It hasn’t changed a thing. Why? Karma.

In a government what actually matters is policies, execution of those policies, and so on. When one participates in a democracy, one is advocating for a set of policies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 14th, 2020 at 3:47 AM
Title: Re: Is there a universal consciousness?
Content:


Supramundane said:
Yes, consciousness can end. It has a beginning and an end; it is conditioned.

Malcolm wrote:
Compounded phenomena cannot be said to have beginnings since there is no first cause.

Supramundane said:
What about my consciousness, M? Didn't it begin with my birth?

Malcolm wrote:
No, in Buddhadharma we have this little thing called "rebirth."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 14th, 2020 at 3:44 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


Minobu said:
All these governments are corrupt , people accept it and still support them .


Malcolm wrote:
In a democracy, the people are the government.

But the principle of karma entails that we only share the karma of those things with which we agree.

I am not arguing for the merits of this or that war, far be it. I am arguing however that broadly slapping the label of "warmonger" on Democrats and Republicans in the US is basically false. The GOP has consistently been the war party. The idea that "The Democrats and Republicans are two sides of one party" is simple-minded and overlooks key differences between them.

Bill Clinton reduced the size of the US Military, as Obama. Trump, contrary to some people's fantasies, was gearing up for a major international war with Iran, and has increased military spending in each successive year since 2016. He may still attack Iran yet. After all, he has 5 weeks and 2 days left to do so. He, along with Pompeo, deliberately sabotaged resumption of the Iran deal, just to make shit more difficult for Biden.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 14th, 2020 at 12:47 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There are so many facts wrong in the above, I don’t know where to begin.

But let’s just start with fact that the Korean War was started by North Korea, and that the international response to it was managed by the UN.

Minobu said:
i got the dates of the presidents and when the wars happened..from wiki...


https://www.google.com/search?q=presidents+during+viet+nam+war&oq=presidents+during+viet+nam+war&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i10i457j0i10j0i22i30l2.7113j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

and you can check the other presidents and time periods...

you want to put spin on it...fine ...but i did not post inaccurate info.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, in this case you have.

Moving onto Nixon, Vietnam was grossly escalated by Nixon, after Johnson declined to run for a second term out of his shame for getting us involved in that war to begin with. Nixon did not oversee the end of Vietnam, Ford did, Nixon having already resigned out of fear of impeachment.

Carter did not start a war in Nicaragua. The Contras thing was GOP all the way.

As for Bosnia, that was a UNC/NATO operation to prevent widespread ethnic violence in the Balkans after the fall of the USSR left a power vacuum in the region.

LIbia was NATO, and not “started” by Obama.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 13th, 2020 at 11:46 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There are so many facts wrong in the above, I don’t know where to begin.

But let’s just start with fact that the Korean War was started by North Korea, and that the international response to it was managed by the UN.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 13th, 2020 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
How is it different from sravaka  nibbana? the only difference is that a bodhjsattva Buddha has past merit and volition (I don’t know how this would actually work without a storage for that past merit and volition and how a unconscious being can complexly interact but That’s the belief)...

PadmaVonSamba said:
Perhaps that isn’t the belief, which would certainly explain the difficulty in figuring out “how that would actually work”. You keep asserting that a Buddha has no awareness. You continue to confuse the extinction of attachment (to the illusion of self) with total elimination of awareness itself.

By the way, I’m still waiting to find out from you exactly who gets reborn ...you, or your consciousness?

Artziebetter1 said:
Show me sources that a Buddha has subjective awareness .

Malcolm wrote:
They have two kinds of omniscience, hence they possess subjective awareness. They are not inert.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 13th, 2020 at 9:37 PM
Title: Re: Is there a universal consciousness?
Content:


Supramundane said:
Yes, consciousness can end. It has a beginning and an end; it is conditioned.

Malcolm wrote:
Compounded phenomena cannot be said to have beginnings since there is no first cause.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 13th, 2020 at 9:17 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


kirtu said:
Thus the fact is established that Trump, unlike his five predecessors, did not initiate a new war or major incursion.

Although he also failed to end American Endless War.


Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
Obama did not start a new war, neither did Clinton.

Facts matter. The only new wars started since the end of Vietnam were all started by GOP presidents.

This is remarkably sloppy, “ Since both [Bosnia and Libia] military engagements are referred to as wars, for purposes of this fact-check, we will consider them new wars the country entered.”

Both were NATO.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 13th, 2020 at 10:10 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


kirtu said:
This is not a problem exclusive to Establishment D's.  Americans in general ignore or simply accept the fact that American capitalism destroys millions during a crisis and consigns millions to lower class economic slavery due primarily to structural racism (although there are other reasons as well).

Malcolm wrote:
Structural racism is something which Johnson tried to change, changes systematically undermined by the GOP.

kirtu said:
In this particular case the Establishment D's declared the 2nd Great Depression to be over and went home, ignoring all of the lasting economic damage.  And D's supported with this deceptive move on the whole - they ignored the ongoing catastrophe because only 7-8M had been permanently shut out of the workforce.  Typical behavior.  Declare the facts to be what you want them to be and market that viewpoint.

Malcolm wrote:
We live in a liberal market economy, not a coordinated market economy. Accept the consequences of where you live or try to change the system.


kirtu said:
We can just stop here because of course most people born and raised in the US simply rewrite history to support their own prejudices.

Malcolm wrote:
You are entitled to your opinions, but not your own set of facts.

kirtu said:
Trump has certainly not done the right thing anywhere and America has abandoned the Yemeni people but Trump is factually the first President since Reagan to not initiate a war or a major incursion.

Malcolm wrote:
As I said above, stick to facts.


kirtu said:
Their hands are all bloody.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, it goes along with providing security to a nation.

kirtu said:
All the Presidents since Bush I have engaged in the exercise of aggressive war.  Trump also through ongoing drone warfare.  However he dialed the war machine back compared to his predecessors.



Malcolm wrote:
1) That depends on what one defines as “aggressive.” 2) Trump did nothing of the kind, he increased arms sails to the Saudis, launched more drone strikes in his administration than the entire period from 2003-2015, etc.

kirtu said:
The fact that people born and raised in the US automatically impose their R vs. D framework on events and invariably try to score points for their team shows that they have lost their ability to analyze history and current events.


Malcolm wrote:
It’s not about D vs. R, it’s about democracy vs. fascism. Get your head on straight.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 13th, 2020 at 9:53 AM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
People inspired by Buddhism, who practice ethics and meditation for this life are not Dharma practitioners, no matter how nice, kind, or good they may be, whether they consider themselves Buddhists or not.

Astus said:
How about what is called "the least capacity" or "lesser scope"?

'Know that those who by whatever means
Seek for themselves no more
Than the pleasures of cyclic existence
Are persons of the least capacity.'
(Lamp for the Path, v 3, in Illuminating the Path to Enlightenment, p 69)

'Given the distinction between virtue and nonvirtue as laid down in the teachings, it is important to rely on virtue. The ten virtues tending to happiness will produce happy destinies, while negative action will precipitate a fall into the states of loss. To understand this distinction correctly, according to the karmic law of cause and effect, and to adopt positive rather than negative behavior is the so-called path of beings of lesser scope.'
(Treasury of Precious Qualities, vol 1, p 151)

Malcolm wrote:
These are people without renunciation, not people attached to this life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 13th, 2020 at 6:28 AM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
I never wanted to practice tantra just be able to call myself vajrayana because I believe it’s the highest path and the bodhisattvas like Tara etc exist

Malcolm wrote:
I think you are really confused.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 13th, 2020 at 6:27 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
kirtu said:
Flushing the 99 Weekers down the economic toilet, targeting people to become economic slaves, intentionally crushing people socially, economically and civilly - as 44's admin did and as most modern admins have done is ALSO malfeasance.

Malcolm wrote:
Obama did not do this. However, he did face a racist GOP that sought to block him everything he ran on since the day he took office.

kirtu said:
Additionally *ALL* admins since Clinton have engaged in unrestrained world war.  ALL OF THEM.  To his credit 45 dialed it back somewhat (although as my ex pointed out he had to be talked out of intervention more than once).

Malcolm wrote:
Not true. Trump increased to number of air attacks in Yemen greatly. He didn't dial back anything. If anything, he left us much less secure and the world a less safe place.

kirtu said:
The entire US "political" leadership is responsible for this kind of unrestrained warfare.  And this is completely unaddressed.

Malcolm wrote:
This happened under Bush II, not Obama.

kirtu said:
Current and former D's at the highest levels included.  This is also a wholly nonvirtuous path.

Malcolm wrote:
Sorry, I just don't you think can compare the Democrats with the GOP in terms of totally despicable behavior. YMMV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 13th, 2020 at 12:55 AM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
I think it’s fair to say that these days, in the west, while there are many “deep-sea diving” Dharma students, particularly within Vajrayana, whose aim is to escape samsaric rebirth, that there are many more people who simply want to live life with some kind of ethics and compassion, and have turned to Buddhism as the source for that, whether they’ve taken refuge or not.

Malcolm wrote:
People inspired by Buddhism, who practice ethics and meditation for this life are not Dharma practitioners, no matter how nice, kind, or good they may be, whether they consider themselves Buddhists or not.

I would venture a guess and say that most people in the world who self-identify as Buddhists are not Dharma practitioners.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 13th, 2020 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: Is there a universal consciousness?
Content:
Supramundane said:
Let me reframe the question: could Bodhicitta be seen as a sort of universal or 'impersonal' consciousness?

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely not. It seems to me you do not understand the term "bodhicitta" in its Mahāyāna context. In its Mahāyāna context is means the aspiration for awakening. It also has two subdivisions: relative bodhicitta and ultimate bodhicitta. Relative bodhicitta has two components: aspirational bodhicitta and engaged bodhicitta. Aspirational bodhicitta is the wish to attain buddhahood for the benefit of all beings. Engaged bodhicitta is the practice of the six perfections.

Ultimate bodhicitta also has two components: the path and the result. The path consists of śamatha, or calm abiding meditation; and vipaśyanā, or insight. The result is the realization of ultimate truth: all phenomena, including nirvana, buddhas, etc., lack inherent existence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 13th, 2020 at 12:43 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
kirtu said:
Each person has to find specific steps to offer their vision and energy to society, and to empower those around them. If we don’t do this, change won’t happen. The vision will not be fulfilled.


Malcolm wrote:
First, you have to correctly diagnose the problem. Grifters like Trump would not be attracted to politics if it wasn't lucrative.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 12th, 2020 at 11:31 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:



FiveSkandhas said:
That's a big generalization about 70 million people. There are people who hold deluded views but would still rush into a burning building to save you.

Malcolm wrote:
You do understand there is only one right path, and one truly virtuous path right? The rest of it is just samsaric karma, positive and negative.


Sādhaka said:
Right, and therefore bideners, bernie bro’s., and anyone else who is not a practitioner who follows political agendas of abrahamists or materialist-carvaka’s, is not any different than trumpsters in that regard.

Malcolm wrote:
The difference is that they support trumps falsehoods, lies, and malfeasance. This is a wholly nonvirtuous path, not only a wrong path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 12th, 2020 at 9:14 PM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
So much of lay Buddhism revolves around merit and hopes for a better reincarnation, this-worldly benefits, or filial piety such as to transfer merit to deceased relatives and ancestors, etc. It may be shortsighted but it's a motivation for millions.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s also not Dharma practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 12th, 2020 at 9:12 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world — above, below, and across — unhindered, without ill will, without enmity.
-The good ole Metta Sutta

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it does a lot of good for one’s mind. But you confuse my disapproval for enmity.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 12th, 2020 at 9:02 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


DNS said:
I would think so. But Trump supporters are persistent, they might say it's still not over. I don't know what Trump could do at this point? Perhaps just refuse to leave the White House?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 12th, 2020 at 9:00 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
SonamTashi said:
I'm not a Shin Buddhist. I was just clarifying that there is at least one school that equates rebirth in Sukhavati with liberation.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, there are a lot of schools alright.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 12th, 2020 at 8:59 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
We generally hope that for everyone. Unfortunately, not only do trumpsters follow a wrong path, they follow a non virtuous path that leads only to lower realms.

FiveSkandhas said:
That's a big generalization about 70 million people. There are people who hold deluded views but would still rush into a burning building to save you.

Malcolm wrote:
You do understand there is only one right path, and one truly virtuous path right? The rest of it is just samsaric karma, positive and negative.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 12th, 2020 at 10:21 AM
Title: Re: Mod Team - Coming and Going
Content:
Queequeg said:
yes, its a little weird... LOL its like a light bulb burned out.

Awesome to see Anders and Narwahl on the team.

Malcolm wrote:
Just remember to duck.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 12th, 2020 at 10:19 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
Who knows how many times we have been given assistance due to their unfathomable compassion, without realizing it?

Malcolm wrote:
Speculative. But one thing I know for a fact is that merit which was gathered in past lives leads to meeting the Dharma in this one. That’s something  I can take to the bank. Karma is unerring.

FiveSkandhas said:
May your merit only increase; may your practice be met with success in every way.

Malcolm wrote:
We generally hope that for everyone. Unfortunately, not only do trumpsters follow a wrong path, they follow a non virtuous path that leads only to lower realms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 12th, 2020 at 9:20 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
Who knows how many times we have been given assistance due to their unfathomable compassion, without realizing it?

Malcolm wrote:
Speculative. But one thing I know for a fact is that merit which was gathered in past lives leads to meeting the Dharma in this one. That’s something  I can take to the bank. Karma is unerring.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 12th, 2020 at 9:06 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
Well, according to the 4th Shinshu patriarch Tao-ch'o, "...there is no power inherent either in the reciter or in the words recited. The power was with Amida Buddha alone, and the power of His Primal Vow was all that was needed to bring the devotee to the Pure Land."
http://web.mit.edu/stclair/www/patriarchs.html

Genjo Conan said:
But rebirth in a Pure Land is not the same as liberation.  My understanding of Pure Land soteriology is that, once in the Pure Land, practitioners study the dharma with Amitabha and countless bodhisattvas until they realize buddhahood.  Which, clearly rebirth in a Pure Land is conducive to liberation, but is not, by itself, a sufficient condition of liberation: the practitioner still has to put in the work.

SonamTashi said:
This is true of most Pure Land schools, but Jodo Shinshu teaches that those who rely on the 18th vow immediately attain full buddhahood upon rebirth in the pure land, and subsequently immediately return to the saha world.

Malcolm wrote:
You ever met anyone who made the round trip?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 12th, 2020 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: Four Classical Indian Languages
Content:
kirtu said:
The usual definition is that Prakrit is derived from Sanskrit (and most Hindu scholars would say that, and probably Kongtrul would have said that as well).

Malcolm wrote:
Sanskrit literally means "refined language." Prakrit literally means "natural language."

"When the term arose in India, "Sanskrit" was not thought of as a specific language set apart from other languages, but rather as a particularly refined or perfected manner of speaking. Knowledge of Sanskrit was a marker of social class and educational attainment and the language was taught mainly to members of the higher castes, through close analysis of Sanskrit grammarians such as Pāṇini. Sanskrit, as the learned language of Ancient India, thus existed alongside the Prakrits (vernaculars), which evolved into the modern Indo-Aryan languages (Hindi, Nepali, Assamese, Marathi, Konkani, Urdu, and Bengali)."

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Sanskrit

This entry is very good, based on excellent sources.

"a particularly refined or perfected manner of speaking"

We have examples of Buddhist brahmins in the Pali cannon looking askance at lower caste monks' inability to correct pronounce long and short syllables, like a and ā, and the Buddha rebuking them for their arrogance. A sort of tomato and tomato kind of thing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 11th, 2020 at 10:34 PM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
The only reason to practice for me is to gain merit, to be born in the deva realms as long as possible
I value my consciousness.

Bristollad said:
And this is another reason why it would be inappropriate for you to practise Buddhist tantra - this aspiration is insufficient for that practice.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. As Mañjuśṛī said to Sachen,

If you are attached to this life, you are not a Dharma practitioner. 
If you are attached to samsara, renunciation is lacking. 
If you are attached to your own goals, bodhicitta is lacking.
If grasping arises, the view is lacking.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 11th, 2020 at 10:32 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
Whether or not the horses choose to imbibe, we can be sure that they will soon have to accept the end of Trumpism. A kind of forced intubation if you will.

Malcolm wrote:
We will see. I don't think the Trumps are going away anytime soon, and I am sure they will remain a toxic force in American politics for decades, unless, and one can only hope, Donald Trump and his children are jailed for tax evasion by the State of NY.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 11th, 2020 at 10:28 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
Well, according to the 4th Shinshu patriarch Tao-ch'o, "...there is no power inherent either in the reciter or in the words recited. The power was with Amida Buddha alone, and the power of His Primal Vow was all that was needed to bring the devotee to the Pure Land."
http://web.mit.edu/stclair/www/patriarchs.html

Malcolm wrote:
Devotee? That implies a path. Also, it means that, according to this reasoning, the primal vow is not very powerful and Amitabha is not very powerful. Why? Because not all sentient beings are devotees of Amitabha.

FiveSkandhas said:
The most "Other power"-centric strains of pure land seem to entertain ideas such as faith in Amida and Nenbutsu itself being a gift from Amida, and the chanting of the Nenbutsu being powered by Amida rather than the chanter.

Malcolm wrote:
A very selective Buddha then, since not everyone receives this gift.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 11th, 2020 at 10:06 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:



FiveSkandhas said:
Icchantikas...yikes.  Well, the Dharmakshema version of the Nirvana Sutra provides for their salvation, and that's good enough for me. I wonder if there are any old-school Faxian Yogacarins who still hold to the original doctrine.

"Anyway, bodhisattvas can’t save anyone."...well, the argument can be made in a Prajnaparamita sort of sense, and probably based on other sources...but those who take the Bodhisattva Vows promise to liberate them all anyway.


Malcolm wrote:
Formally speaking, Mādhyamikas reject the idea of icchantikas. Practically speaking, mādhyamikas admit that there may be some sentient beings who are so benighted that liberation is totally beyond them. I am not sure there are any such beings among Trumpsters, but I wouldn't rule it out either. Its a pity, but what to do. One can lead a horse to water, but one can't make it drink.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 11th, 2020 at 10:02 PM
Title: Re: If Nagarjuna had a mirror
Content:
Astus said:
mirroring.

Malcolm wrote:
Apart from what has been mirrored and not been mirrored, there is no [present] mirroring. A mirroring mirror is redundant, just like moving movers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 11th, 2020 at 9:59 PM
Title: Re: Four Classical Indian Languages
Content:
kirtu said:
Sanskrit...

Malcolm wrote:
Is derived from Prakrit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 11th, 2020 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
And I don't know how you feel about Pure Land "other power" but a great many believers of that strain of thought might take issue with the statement "Everybody must liberate themselves."

Malcolm wrote:
Amitabha can't liberate anyone. That's just not how the Dharma works.

"Sins can't be washed away with water,
suffering cannot be manually removed,
I can't give you liberation,
but I can show you a path."

— Śākyamuni Buddha

Its up to everyone to practice that path themselves, including Pure Land Buddhists, all of them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 11th, 2020 at 8:19 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So yeah, he and his followers are fascists, American style, which involves a lot of hillbillies, sheeple, and other assorted deplorables who all seem unable to distinguish reality from tv.

FiveSkandhas said:
Beings are numberless. Don't Bodhisatvas vow to save them all? Even the seventy million who voted for Trump?

Malcolm wrote:
The older I get, the more I think the Yogacarins were onto something with their idea of  icchantikas.

Anyway, bodhisattvas can’t save anyone. That’s not how the Dharma works. Everybody must liberate themselves.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 11th, 2020 at 7:58 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


Dan74 said:
There are millions of people who firmly believe the election was stolen and that Trump is fighting for democracy. Some of those people are surely sincere and not stupid, or do you see that as a logical impossibility? Neither do they necessarily have to be fascists, racists, etc..

Malcolm wrote:
Anyone who thinks the election was stolen from Trump is an idiot. Anyone who supports Trump is a fascist. There really isn’t any discussion to be had about this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 11th, 2020 at 6:00 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


Dan74 said:
The others are always dead wrong and deluded and now also fascists/traitors,  hillbillies/sheeple,  troglodytes/perverts, etc.

Choose your side.


Malcolm wrote:
Guess you like the view up there in your Swiss Ivory tower. On the other hand, here in the United States their is a defeated president trying his best to overturn his legitimate defeat. So yeah, he and his followers are fascists, American style, which involves a lot of hillbillies, sheeple, and other assorted deplorables who all seem unable to distinguish reality from tv.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 11th, 2020 at 10:08 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


karmanyingpo said:
These are my 2 cents... Even if a person who supports Trump is dead wrong and deluded, hopefully a Dharma practitioner who supports Biden can at least imagine how a person could be duped to support him.

Malcolm wrote:
I can imagine, but I am not especially sympathetic of fascists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 11:17 PM
Title: Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics
Content:


karmanyingpo said:
Hello Malcolm, I noticed you mentioned that a 3 day retreat is obligatory for Dorje Gotrab and I am wondering if this is always the case since I have heard there are different terma and practices for the mantra. My own teacher didn't seem to say that we needed to do a 3 day retreat to activate it. Would appreciate your input.

Malcolm wrote:
According to the original terma of Dorje Lingpa. Three day retreat uninterrupted by other speech. Alternately, a one month retreat of Guru Drakpo.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 11:09 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Unrecognized tulkus are bodhisattvas on their Paths.

Malcolm wrote:
Then they are not Tulkus, by definition.

A Tulku is a fully realized Buddha, not a Bodhisatva on the path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 10:38 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
How about you. Do you think any tulkus are nitmanakaya Buddhas? (Hint; this is on the record. I’m posting it to your “Malcolm quotes” thread.)

Malcolm wrote:
Nope. Not a single one. There might be some outside the system (most certainly, actually) though, unrecognized and anonymous.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 10:31 AM
Title: Re: Illuminating Quotes by Malcolm Namdrol-la
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Tulkus are just Tibetan cultural bullshit, did you ever ask yourself why there were never any Indian Tulkus? Or Tulkus in China, Japan, etc.?

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=561123#p561123

Malcolm wrote:
Not to mention the fact that the Tulku institution only emerged in Tibet in the 13th century, after Dharma had been in Tibet for nearly 500 years...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 10:28 AM
Title: Re: Abhidharmakosabhasyam Book Club
Content:
Manjushri said:
Their approach when it comes to challenging confusion and wrong ideas might still be a tad too uninhibited and even confrontational

Malcolm wrote:
It helps to remember that  it’s not the person that is being negated, but the sentence on the page. It isn’t personal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 10:22 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This thread has actually descended into idle gossip.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I feel like Malcolm is probably right and we have pretty much done this to death. Since this is an omnibus thread, I'm gonna ask that everyone just take a bit of a break for now. I feel like everyone (including me) got their say, and we should probably leave the thread be for questions about practice etc., which will be a much more positive direction. Thanks.

Aloke said:
How democratic!

Malcolm wrote:
Given that I am the OP, I think this thread has lived out its natural life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 10:19 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Rigpa>marigpa.
Doesn’t seem all that strange to me.

Malcolm wrote:
That just means you, nominally, don’t get it. Pure phenomena cannot produce impure phenomena. Buddha qualities cannot give rise to their opposite. If they could, Buddhas could become sentient beings.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Sounds like you’ve never met a fallen tulku. Try watching Gesar Mukpo’s movie.

Malcolm wrote:
Laughable.  Tulkus are just Tibetan cultural bullshit, did you ever ask yourself why there were never any Indian Tulkus? Or Tulkus in China, Japan, etc.?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 10:13 AM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:


Artziebetter1 said:
but I thought that in Yogachara there are no external objects?so when one Chitta perishes what gives rise to the subsequent chitta?the chitta is alaya and you guys say that alaya ceases and perishes basically and arises.I don't understand how you can believe this.

Malcolm wrote:
Even in Yogacara, conventionally, outer objects exist. At the level,of analysis, caittas give rise to the appearance of outer objects.

You really don’t understand Buddhist tenets because you have not properly studied them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 10:08 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Yep. Sad but true.

Malcolm wrote:
Do you realize how incoherent that is?

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Rigpa>marigpa.
Doesn’t seem all that strange to me.

Malcolm wrote:
That just means you, nominally, don’t get it. Pure phenomena cannot produce impure phenomena. Buddha qualities cannot give rise to their opposite. If they could, Buddhas could become sentient beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 8:13 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This thread has actually descended into idle gossip.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 8:06 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
You literally just got done trying to prove to me that samsara arises from the Dharmakaya, so apparently you think Shentong does in fact teach that the conditioned phenomena arise from the unconditioned.


Malcolm wrote:
Or worse, the faults arise from buddha qualities.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Yep. Sad but true.

Malcolm wrote:
Do you realize how incoherent that is?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 4:03 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
You literally just got done trying to prove to me that samsara arises from the Dharmakaya, so apparently you think Shentong does in fact teach that the conditioned phenomena arise from the unconditioned.


Malcolm wrote:
Or worse, the faults arise from buddha qualities.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 1:33 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I don’t think appearances are considered as such in Shentong. The images are never anything other than the mirror, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
And this is why gzhan stong does not go beyond false aspectarian cittamatra, since it is just false aspectarian cittamatra.

But does not mean that everything is only your ultimate gnosis. If it were, that would mean I am your ultimate gnosis.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
We are both appearances of transpersonal gnosis.

Malcolm wrote:
Is that transpersonal gnosis dual or nondual? If it is the former, it cannot be an ultimate gnosis since it is dualistic; if it is the latter, dualistic appearances cannot appear within a nondual gnosis. Further, if dualistic appearances are manifesting in this gnosis, like reflections in a mirror, it must be a personal gnosis (as suggested by the term pratyatmyavedanajñāna, i.e. the gnosis that one intuits individually), rather than a transpersonal gnosis, because if it were a transpersonal gnosis everyone would experience it at the same time just as it was, and buddhahood would be impossible. If it is a personal gnosis, then dualistic outer appearances can manifest to it, without that gnosis becoming dualistic, and without outer, dependently-originated, apparent phenomena being "mind only." And this is what is means to say that all appearances are included in sugatagarbha, which is just the gnosis that one intuits individually (look it up). There is a difference between appearances and apparent objects, even in gzhan stong. Appearances are like the moon in the water, apparent objects are like the moon. No moon, no reflection; no water, no reflection.

I suggest you stop tying yourself up in conundrums and go study these things in a proper way. Your self-study is just confusing you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 10th, 2020 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I don’t think appearances are considered as such in Shentong. The images are never anything other than the mirror, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
And this is why gzhan stong does not go beyond false aspectarian cittamatra, since it is just false aspectarian cittamatra.

But does not mean that everything is only your ultimate gnosis. If it were, that would mean I am your ultimate gnosis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 9th, 2020 at 8:59 PM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:


Artziebetter1 said:
This is exactly what I’ve been saying and is also the vedantin view.materiality undergoes a change in substance or form but nothing new is ever created or destroyed(even light goes on into more subtle states).

Malcolm wrote:
That's not what saying "cause and effect are neither the same nor different" means. One thing does not change into another thing. For example, this flame does not become that flame when one lights one candle with another. They are not the same, and nothing is transferred, and nevertheless there is a serial continuity.

Artziebetter1 said:
With regards to chitta however,chitta is not substantial and doesn’t transform into anything apart yet same from it like milk to butter And to say there is nothing to prevent the arising of the subsequent moment of mind is false as this is still a arising from other wich is impossible ....

Malcolm wrote:
Citta is supported by caittas, and vice versa, they arise together and support each other, being the supporting conditions for each others arising.

Artziebetter1 said:
and the sarvastavadin and Theravada abhidharmas do seem to say that a cause totally perishes before a effect can arise which I’m glad you don’t believe.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no such thing as arising from a single cause. In Buddhadharma, at least in Indian Buddhadharma, there are six causes and four conditions. One of the six causes is the creative cause, karanahetu, which is the fact that all phenomena are a cause for all other phenomena apart from themselves.


Artziebetter1 said:
In any case It seems that there is only one chitta in the mind’stream’if arising from other also cannot be established and if it is also exnihilo creation.

Malcolm wrote:
All cittas arise with caittas, as above. For example, vedana and samjñā are two dominant caittas given the status of skandhas. All sentient beings have five skandhas, though the number of caittas they possess varies depending what realm they inhabit; desire, form, or formless realm.

Artziebetter1 said:
I can understand the subtle mind giving rise to Vedana and perception etc but not the other way around.if the caittas come from cittas then when one citta perishes how can its caittas give rise to another new subtle mind wich hosts the mental factors ?what I mean by this is that if caittas are dependant on cittas to exist,then when one citta perishes how can its caittas give rise to a new citta with its own caittas?if this happens in the case where one citta perishes only after its subsequent citta arises due to the former's caittas,there would be confused experience and multiple selves at once wouldn't there?

How does caitta create citta?how can something give rise to something else completely new?if arising cannot be established at all,then there must be only one citta.thats the point of OP.

Malcolm wrote:
Caittas do not create cittas; cittas and caittas arise together and support one another. A citta arises when there is sensory contact with an object, either physical or mental. For example, when the eye organ and a form meet, there is an eye consciousness. When the mental organ and a caitta meet, there is a mental consciousness, etc. caittas are the objects of a citta. That’s how caittas support cittas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 9th, 2020 at 8:45 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
And again, you stated that there was a claim that samsara arises from the Dharmakaya somehow, I don't see that here either, not that I expect to.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Kongtrul's "Light Rays of the Stainless Vajra Moon" tr. Brunnhölzl. (p.847 of "When the Clouds Part"):
Kongtrul said:
These appearances of the three existences (the container that is the outer world and the [inner] content [of sentient beings], just as a face's being transferred [as a reflection] into a mirror, appear as the magical display of inner nadis, vayus, and tilakas, and these three abide as the aspects of "the other"--the circle of the supreme mandala with its support and supported. All of these are true reality's--the sugar heart's--own light and own radiance, the dharmakaya itself appearing as all aspects, and utterly changeless wisdom.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
(formatting mine)

If you’re not into this type of approach that’s fine. Tsongkhapa would say it is a bunch of horse apples. Plenty of highly realized masters completely reject that kind of idea. But plenty of highly realized masters embrace it too. So it’s a personal and karmic choice.


Malcolm wrote:
That’s not transpersonal. That’s saying appearances exist in rig pa the same way a reflection exists in a mirror.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 9th, 2020 at 5:24 AM
Title: Re: Four Classical Indian Languages
Content:
kirtu said:
Paiśācī

Malcolm wrote:
Is Pali, the language of the Sthaviravādins.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 9th, 2020 at 5:15 AM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:


Artziebetter1 said:
This is exactly what I’ve been saying and is also the vedantin view.materiality undergoes a change in substance or form but nothing new is ever created or destroyed(even light goes on into more subtle states).

Malcolm wrote:
That's not what saying "cause and effect are neither the same nor different" means. One thing does not change into another thing. For example, this flame does not become that flame when one lights one candle with another. They are not the same, and nothing is transferred, and nevertheless there is a serial continuity.

Artziebetter1 said:
With regards to chitta however,chitta is not substantial and doesn’t transform into anything apart yet same from it like milk to butter And to say there is nothing to prevent the arising of the subsequent moment of mind is false as this is still a arising from other wich is impossible ....

Malcolm wrote:
Citta is supported by caittas, and vice versa, they arise together and support each other, being the supporting conditions for each others arising.

Artziebetter1 said:
and the sarvastavadin and Theravada abhidharmas do seem to say that a cause totally perishes before a effect can arise which I’m glad you don’t believe.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no such thing as arising from a single cause. In Buddhadharma, at least in Indian Buddhadharma, there are six causes and four conditions. One of the six causes is the creative cause, karanahetu, which is the fact that all phenomena are a cause for all other phenomena apart from themselves.


Artziebetter1 said:
In any case It seems that there is only one chitta in the mind’stream’if arising from other also cannot be established and if it is also exnihilo creation.

Malcolm wrote:
All cittas arise with caittas, as above. For example, vedana and samjñā are two dominant caittas given the status of skandhas. All sentient beings have five skandhas, though the number of caittas they possess varies depending what realm they inhabit; desire, form, or formless realm.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 9th, 2020 at 1:34 AM
Title: Re: How exactly is there a momentariness of consciousness ?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
If one chitta perishes and the next arises,from what does this next chitta arise?in a chain of chittas you would either have to have a chitta perishing and it’s subsequent chitta arising from nothingness,and thus there could be no conditioning of a chitta by another or you would have a chitta giving rise to another chitta and then perishing in wich case there would be confused experiences and such arising would fall under arising from other wich is still exnihilo arising and cannot really occur.I think that abhidharma teaches the former view of momentariness and that the latter is just a possible form I’ve given for the sake of argument in favor of the momentariness view but even that does not hold water because creation from other is still exnihilo creation.

Malcolm wrote:
This is addressed in Madhyamaka: causes and effects are neither the same nor are they different. Further, this criticism you raise, applies only to moments that have parts. Partless moments are immune to Madhyamaka reasoning. So, 1) given that causes and effects are neither the same nor are they different, for example, milk and its curds; 2) given that moments are partless; and 3) given that nothing can arise from a single cause; and further, 4) given that when moment of mind ceases there nothing to prevent the arising of the subsequent moment of mind, your qualm is removed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 8th, 2020 at 7:31 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Giovanni said:
He saw D.C.fading away and taking new forms. That is my guess.

Malcolm wrote:
This contradicts everything he ever said in his life about the future of the DC.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 8th, 2020 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
heart said:
I am not against it, I just don't understand why the students don't get informed.

Malcolm wrote:
As far as I can tell, it is because Yeshe is in a conflict with the Dzogchen Community.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 7th, 2020 at 11:26 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
heart said:
Why was he embalmed? Who decided that and so on?

Malcolm wrote:
According to what I have been told, Rinpoche decided his body was to be embalmed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 7th, 2020 at 9:53 PM
Title: Re: Prajnaparamita sutra - other translations than Conze's?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The  pp in 10,000 lines was published at 84,000.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 7th, 2020 at 10:18 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Minobu said:
i had this conversation recently..Dems are big on war ..

Malcolm wrote:
Historically false. Nixon escalated Vietnam, the Bushes started both Iraq wars.

Eisenhower began the US involvement in Vietnam after the French were routed at Diem Bien Phu.

As for Trump, he started a war against the American people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 7th, 2020 at 3:35 AM
Title: Re: Picking and choosing
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Actually, you have to choose nonafflicted things and avoid afflicted things, you have to choose virtuous things and avoid nonvirtuous things.

Between choosing to benefit yourself and benefit others, the former has merely led to your present state of suffering, the latter frees everyone.

CosmosFF said:
If buddha eats to stay alive, this cant be leading to a state of suffering, right? Do you mean it leads to a state of suffering if you choose yourself over others? Since compassion and all that... I also interpret that you mean "choosing the benefit of others" to be the liberation of all beings, not just benefit as in something pleasurable that would lead to my own dukkha. Is this correct?

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha taught a middle way between asceticism and indulgence.

Choosing to benefit others will lead to your own happiness. It can involve liberation of all sentient beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 7th, 2020 at 2:53 AM
Title: Re: Picking and choosing
Content:
CosmosFF said:
uhm guys i have another question
If picking and choosing leads to suffering, where is the limit to what is considered picking and choosing? Is picking and choosing conscious acts or more? If I want to live and thus eat rice, is this picking and choosing? Or am i acting out of buddha nature? Is saving all living beings picking and choosing, when i could be smacking rocks together in the forest instead? is there any difference between these two? Is that picking and choosing?

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, you have to choose nonafflicted things and avoid afflicted things, you have to choose virtuous things and avoid nonvirtuous things.

Between choosing to benefit yourself and benefit others, the former has merely led to your present state of suffering, the latter frees everyone.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 6th, 2020 at 9:32 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
Hi, I would like to ask what happened that Palyul Choktrul felt that this needed to be said?

Malcolm wrote:
What rumors?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 6th, 2020 at 11:00 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
tobes said:
Very nailed Malcolm.

Danny said:
Hang on a moment moon reflected in water!
M’s assertion/non assertion is established view.
It’s how Prasaṅgika negate opponents.
I.e. don’t forward a position to be refuted.
It’s called the four way Mula way of arguing. But is still a “view”, a philosophical position.

Malcolm wrote:
Any philosophical position necessarily entails a proposition concerning existence or nonexistence. I have never made a proposition concerning either. If someone puts forth such a proposition, they are at fault. Since I have never put forward any such proposition, I am free from fault. Dependent origination alone frees one from the tangle of views.

Nevertheless, I still look both ways when crossing the street.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 6th, 2020 at 8:24 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
To give someone the insight so they can “let go” of appearances, and to  bring closure to the intellect and its misdirected attempts to understand.

It’s a jumping off point.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it’s to relinquish all views.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
That’s what I just said.

Malcolm wrote:
Relinquishing views is not about relinquishing appearances. Further, without relying on conventional truth, one cannot understand ultimate truth. And if one does not understand ultimate truth, nirvana cannot be realized. So what is ultimate truth? Dependently originated things are empty. Empty of what? Extremes of existence and nonexistence.  What are views? Views concern existence and nonexistence. What cures them? Dependent origination. But your view constantly argues for the existence of this and the nonexistence of that. Therefore, you are not free from views. It’s why you spend so much time arguing and advocating for a view. You set up the pins, I knock them down. When you are free from views then you will stop setting up the pins and the game will be over.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 6th, 2020 at 7:57 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
And what’s the actual point of Madhyamaka...?

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
To give someone the insight so they can “let go” of appearances, and to  bring closure to the intellect and its misdirected attempts to understand.

It’s a jumping off point.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it’s to relinquish all views.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 6th, 2020 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
No. What did he say?

Malcolm wrote:
They are a thicket.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Ah.
That must be why Zen avoids the subject.

Malcolm wrote:
And what’s the actual point of Madhyamaka...?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 6th, 2020 at 1:57 AM
Title: Re: 45 missing children recovered during statewide anti human trafficking operation in ohio
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/08/viral-chart-distorts-human-trafficking-statistics/

Unknown said:
Defendants charged. The number of defendants charged annually went up from 181 in fiscal year 2010 to 531 in fiscal year 2016 under Obama. That number again went up in fiscal year 2017 to 553, before dropping the following two years — to 386 and 343 in fiscal years 2018 and 2019, respectively.

Trafficking convictions. Convictions — which often result from prosecutions initiated in previous years — are up in recent years, relative to years past. In fiscal year 2016, there were 439 convictions, up from 297 the year before. There were 499, 526 and 475 convictions in fiscal years 2017, 2018 and 2019, respectively.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 11:52 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
You know what Buddha said about views, right?
No. What did he say?

Malcolm wrote:
They are a thicket.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 10:52 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
ibid

This was the next paragraph from my post immediately above. I include that here because Malcolm and JD had unanswered posts from a thread now closed.

Malcolm wrote:
This directly contradicts your assertion that Buddhanature and sentient beings are mutually exclusive. Why? Because here you’ve defined the luminosity of the mind as Buddhanature. No sentient being, no Buddhanature.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I never asserted that. I reported HHK#8’s remarkable interpretation af Buddha Nature/Shentong as an interesting outlier to the gamut of possible views. My own interpretation is fluid, as different moods may dictate.

Malcolm wrote:
You know what Buddha said about views, right?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
shankara said:
I just last night read something of Taranatha on this subject. A short treatise you can find here: https://dzokden.org/read/library/study/lineage-commentaries/.

What he says about the Rangtong treating the second turning of the wheel of Dharma as definitive and the third (as well as the first) as provisional is very interesting. Firstly, I would like to know if this is true? If so, it strikes me as problematic.

Malcolm wrote:
The whole theory of the three turnings of the wheel is problematic, actually. There isn't any agreement which sutras are "third turning."

The Indian masters paid no attention to the three turnings at all. As a doctrine it finds no place in Dzogchen teachings at all until after the thirteenth century. The Sakyapas largely ignore it.

The Gelukpas treat the second turning as definitive.

Some teachers include the tathāgatagarbha sūtras in this category (though the Indian Yogacāra master themselves were skeptical of tathāgatagarbha theory, since they advocated the theory of the icchantika, Madhyāmikas were actually more open to it than Yogacārins).

This is mostly a Tibetan trip, based on the commentary of the Korean Master Wongchuk on the Samdhinirmocana Sūtra, translated during the imperial period.

shankara said:
The "Mahaparinirvana Sutra" is apparently of the third turning, and personally I think it is the most definitive of all Sutras (excepting perhaps the Lotus) due to it being the last preached before the death of Shakyamuni. Does the Rangtong school really regard this Sutra as provisional?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no such thing as a "rang stong school," except in the eyes of gzhan stong pas.

Generally speaking, everyone in India, including the Yogacāra masters, regarded the Prajñāpāramitā sūtras as definitive in meaning. We know this for example because Virupa, who had been a Yogacāra master prior to his awakening, carried a copy of the PP in 8000 lines with him everywhere he travelled.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 9:28 PM
Title: Re: Reaching the path
Content:



Könchok Thrinley said:
I see. He mentions often that when one reaches the path one is basically already irreversible. So does it equate with accomplishing the path of accumulation?

Malcolm wrote:
There are various forms of irreversibility, not only one.

Könchok Thrinley said:
Could you please elaborate, or mention them?

Malcolm wrote:
For example, there is irreversibility on the path of accumulation, where one's bodhicitta becomes stable; on the path of application, one is irreversible at the level of patience, where one will no longer take birth in the three lower realms; the path of seeing is by definition irreversible, and after achieving it, one will always achieve it again in every birth; the irreversibility on the path of cultivation happens on the eighth bhumi, where one will never take birth in the desire realm again. And of course Buddhahood is irreversible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 8:51 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
BTW, I read some Kagyu teachers and am not particularly doctrinaire about Shentong/Rangtong...I just don't think Shentong is equivalent to Platonism, Advaita, Monism generally, or whatever.

Malcolm wrote:
It isn’t, it’s a form of false aspectarian cittamatra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 8:49 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
ibid Thus, in this context, one needs to keep in mind that since all phenomena of seeming reality are not really existent in the first place (and Dolpopa and Mahamudra agree on this), there is always only one ultimately real phenomenon to begin with, which is buddha nature or mind’s natural luminosity. Consequently, in fact, there is only a single actual reality, and therefore any presentation or separation of two realities is necessarily of expedient meaning.
This was the next paragraph from my post immediately above. I include that here because Malcolm and JD had unanswered posts from a thread now closed.

Malcolm wrote:
This directly contradicts your assertion that Buddhanature and sentient beings are mutually exclusive. Why? Because here you’ve defined the luminosity of the mind as Buddhanature. No sentient being, no Buddhanature.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 8:38 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
To be honest I would not call Trump an "idiot." You don't become a self-made billionaire, not to mention President of the US after starting out as a joke in the primaries, by being an idiot.

Malcolm wrote:
He is not a billionaire, never has been,  all his money is from daddy. He is in fact an idiot, as are his children.

NY real estate people consider him a joke. I know this to be so because I know the former dean of the NYU real estate institute.

The only thing you have correct in the above is that he is a conman and a narcissist. But you don’t have to be smart to be conman. You just have to find someone more stupid than you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 9:29 AM
Title: Re: Reaching the path
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
Alan Wallace talks sometimes about so called "reaching the path". Has anyone seen anything about this topic from other teachers, or could one share ones understanding what it means, etc?

Malcolm wrote:
He is talking about the five paths, which begin with the path of accumulation. That path begins with rousing Mahāyāna bodhicitta.

Könchok Thrinley said:
I see. He mentions often that when one reaches the path one is basically already irreversible. So does it equate with accomplishing the path of accumulation?

Malcolm wrote:
There are various forms of irreversibility, not only one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 6:13 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Soma999 said:
There can be a fear of dying or disapearing that makes one stick to certain beliefs, like of a self.

It won’t be resolved in a forum. It can be resolved in graciousness and harmony with efficient persons.

Even a good therapist can remove certains blocks and things will be in harmony.

Malcolm wrote:
Ummm, that's actually besides the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 5:53 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Soma999 said:
Hindu dharma does not negate karma and dependent arising.

Malcolm wrote:
Shankarācarya explicitly rejects dependent origination as do all other Hindu polemicists. The Hindu doctrine of karma is quite deterministic, compared to that of the Buddha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 5:02 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Cinnabar said:
I guess I started my practice wrong.

I harbored a combination of eternalist and nihilist views when I came to Buddhism. It took me some time to eradicate those. Some years really.

If I hadn’t had faith in my teacher I wouldn’t have persevered.

I’d get a text and not understand anything and pray and learn the first word I didn’t understand. Then the second. And so on. In time I found myself with madhyamaka and experiential exercises related to emptiness, nature of mind. But it took years.

According to these criteria you present, I should not have started until I had an understanding of dependent origination. I find that a very very very deep and subtle topic. It took a long time to get my mind around, and even now it still gets deeper. It took years and years.

Malcolm wrote:
The difference between you and the OP is that you clearly wanted to change your view, and understood already that you did not have correct view. So you tried to discover that.

But in general, I would not recommend that people who do not understand the basics of Mahāyāna Buddhism seek to enter Vajrayāna right away. Otherwise, people who try to practice Vajrayāna without a correct view of emptiness simply wind up taking rebirth as rudras, they either negate cause and result because they have an annihilationist view, or they negate cause and result because they have an eternalist view. But you are talking to someone who wept when first reading the Perfection of Wisdom sūtras, and whose hair stood on end when hearing the word "śunyatā."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 4:27 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Cinnabar said:
I have seen in myself and my fellow dharma siblings wrong views transmuted through the blessings of practice, study,  and devotion.

Malcolm wrote:
Wrong view here specifically refers to not accepting dependent origination and karma with its results.

There is also wrong devotion. What is that? Devotion which lacks wisdom is wrong devotion. Wisdom does not arise from outside oneself.

As Nāgārjuna says:

Only those with the essentials of emptiness and compassion
accomplish awakening.

View is the basis of the path. WIthout a correct view, it is impossible for one's path to be correct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 4:16 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:


shankara said:
I think that to completely rid oneself of doubt about anything, one would have to become something of a 'true believer' in the cultish sense. Doubt is a natural part of the process of thinking things through and developing understanding. Personally I have serious doubts about the Prasangika, and am not entirely convinced that the "Tirthika" paths are so useless as many people seem to think them to be.

This doesn't mean I'm not engaging in practice, familiarizing myself with teachings on emptiness in order to meditate on them, or taking refuge in non-Buddhist teachers. I figure so long as I'm undergoing such a process, practicing sincerely, then I'm pretty much on the right track. I'm also pretty sure that there are plenty of Vajrayana practitioners in "the same boat", but who have faith in the method if not complete and unquestioning acceptance of the entire philosophy (of whatever particular school of Vajrayana that may be, and there do seem to be some pretty serious conflicts between each of them...)

Malcolm wrote:
It is not even possible to practice any Vajrayāna sadhana if one lacks conviction in emptiness. How can one practice Vajrayāna methods if one lacks confidence in Vajrayāna view? It is not necessary to be a Prasangika. It is simply necessary to have conviction in emptiness ala the Heat Sūtra. That is sufficient.

Basically, if one reads the Heart Sūtra and is freaked out by it, rejects its message and so on, one is not a candidate for receiving Vajrayāna teachings, any Vajrayāna teachings, including Dzogchen.

Buddha spoke about three gates of liberation: signlessness, emptiness, and wishlessness. He did not mention a fourth anywhere.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 4:07 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Too rich:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
shankara said:
And how does one know when one has "relinquished wrong views"?

Malcolm wrote:
Quite simple, really. One accepts the view of dependent origination as the correct explanation for the arising of all phenomena. Apart from space and cessation, there aren't any other phenomena.

shankara said:
Does this mean not having any thoughts which are not in accordance with the view of voidness? Really it seems unrealistic to suggest that in order to maintain a pure Vajrayana practise, one has to completely abandon the mental factor of doubt, which I'm sure is present in even many advanced practitioners.

Malcolm wrote:
If someone has doubt about emptiness, they should not enter Vajrayāna teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 3:25 AM
Title: Re: Is monastic life a right livelihood?
Content:


SaaZ said:
About the first point, for instance, who decide that a vow made by myself is not right discipline? Different Buddhist traditions have different vows, so who decide which is right?

Malcolm wrote:
Right discipline has been presented by the Buddha in many sources, both the Pali Canon and Mahāyāna. In general, a vow is something one receives from a preceptor. There is a broad consensus across Buddhist traditions that taking such a vows from a preceptor renders the virtue generated by that vow a much more powerful karma. The basic reason for this is that you are entering into a community of practitioners. Just as a man who watches a hundred people kill another man and approves of it receives one hundred times more negative karma than if he just killed a man himself, likewise, someone who takes Buddhist precepts generates as much merit from that as there are people who have also take those precepts.

Self-made vows do not have that force because there is no community to support them.


SaaZ said:
About the second point. Is it really like that? Offering to the ideal of Sangha really generate greater merits than other kinds of offerings? How can you be so sure?

Malcolm wrote:
Again, this is another one of the thing about which there is broad consensus across Buddhist traditions.

SaaZ said:
You might be right, I probably didn’t study this things enough, but as I already said, I don’t indiscriminately accept all the things that are supposed to be Buddhism as true.

Malcolm wrote:
It is also important not to indiscriminately reject things, just because they challenge your preconceptions about Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 2:11 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
In his “Big Red Book” Dudjom Rinpoche says that if you have faith you don’t need any of that.

Malcolm wrote:
How can one say one has faith in the Buddha if one disagrees with everything he ever said?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Ayu said:
Was it true or satire that Trump wants to change the constitution?

Malcolm wrote:
he would if he could...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 12:28 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Back to the OP; I say yes, you can be a Buddhist.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no. He can't. Why? It is very simple. To take the vows of refuge, you have to abandon nonbuddhist teachers, which the OP clearly is unable to do. To take the bodhisattva vows, not only is one not to make a serious study of nonbuddhist tenets, but also one is supposed to avoid spending too much time on Hinayāna tenets and scriptures. And when it comes to Vajrayāna, wrong view is actually a root downfall, that is, abandoning the view of freedom from extremes.

Telling this man he can become a Vajrayāna Buddhist without relinquishing his wrong views is like giving him a plane ticket for a nonstop flight to the hell realms. It is completely irresponsible, idiot compassion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: The material world of Mahayana
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Another pricey set of Mahayana accoutrements: This 8-piece gold butsugu "selection" for a home altar features candlesticks, a flower vase, vessels for offerings, and several other ritual implements. Price: over 46 million yen, or roughly $441,335 United States Dollars at current exchange rates:

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/dentouhonpo/tko0184/

Malcolm wrote:
Well, better than a toilet made of gold, were I to be able to make such a extravagant choice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Is monastic life a right livelihood?
Content:


SaaZ said:
In ones head or formally made doesn't make much difference to me.
About the second point, with all due respect, It seems to me a bit naive to believe that the Sangha can only be virtuous; there are plenty of examples of non-virtuous behaviours.

Malcolm wrote:
As for the first point: you don't really seem to understand the perspective of vows in Buddhism. A vow you make up yourself is not actually considered right discipline. It is a discipline, sure, but it is not connected with the eight fold path of noble ones.

As for the second point, I addressed that. When you make offerings to a monastic, you are not really making offerings to a person; you are making offerings to an ideal—that people can awaken through the practice of discipline, samadhi, and wisdom.

The Sangha represents that ideal.

I suspect you have not studied these issues carefully, based on your answers. Clearly, at this point in your life, becoming Buddhist monk, a member of the ordained Sangha, is not for you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 12:05 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Brahma said:
The Dalai Lama would not drive you away...

Malcolm wrote:
I personally heard HHDL say in Tucson, in 2005, "I tell my Christian friends who are interested in emptiness, it's none of your business."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 5th, 2020 at 12:03 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
For a little over 100 years now Kongtrul’s interpretation seems to be widely accepted within the Karma Kagyu.

Malcolm wrote:
Even the 8th Karmapa did not accept his own view. His writings on gzhan stong were early. His mature view was quite different.

As for Kongtrul, while he had great devotion to Taranatha, his actual writing on gzhan stong reflects more the views of Śākya Chogden, who held among other things that that gnosis, ye shes, was relative.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 4th, 2020 at 10:02 PM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
haha said:
Even a famous Mahasiddha, Krisnacharya, was a shaiva heretic; there is no problem to practice vajrayana; his teacher took full responsibility to guide him; later, he became the accomplished master.

Malcolm wrote:
First, before he was granted empowerments and so on, Krishnacarya accepted that he had been defeated in debate. Accepting general Buddhadharma has always been a precondition for receiving empowerment in Vajrayana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 4th, 2020 at 9:54 PM
Title: Re: The material world of Mahayana
Content:
PeterC said:
I suspect what appeals to people is the aesthetics rather than the content. But who knows. The dominant school often changes over time, too. Sri Lanka once had a larg Mahayana sangha.  In parts of modern Southeast Asia vajrayana was until not so long ago regarded as less reputable than common Mahayana.

Malcolm wrote:
Ironic, considering Vajrayana was, for a short while, the state religion of Cambodia and also Sumatra, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 4th, 2020 at 9:41 PM
Title: Re: Is monastic life a right livelihood?
Content:


SaaZ said:
For the same reasons that I underlined above (agnostic, etc.), I'm skeptical of this interpretation. I don't see why making offers to the Shanga is greater than making offers to undernourished children. I find it difficult to believe that my personal vows, done in the silence of my head (this is figurative speech, is actually noisy there ), suddenly generate merits for other people.

Malcolm wrote:
First, one does not make these vows silently, in one’s head. There is no self-ordination in Buddhadharma, not even to become an upasaka.

You receive vows in specific rites, which vary from order to order, while the general outline is the same.

Second, the object is free of affliction. Now, while today monastics are probably not even stream entrants, they still represent arhats. As such, they are representative of the Buddha’s Noble Sangha.

But no one would argue there was no merit to supporting undernourished children, but not as much. Why? One has no idea how that person will turn out. The Sangha jewel is only virtuous.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 4th, 2020 at 9:32 PM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
read Spinoza or something.

Malcolm wrote:
Spinoza was basically a materialist on the model of Epicurus.

tobes said:
????

A pretty direct link back to the Stoics, but I can't really see Epicureanism there.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.parrhesiajournal.org/parrhesia32/parrhesia32_guyau.pdf


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 4th, 2020 at 9:05 PM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
To give an idea of how varied Shentong can be, this is Brunnhölzl talking about Mikyo Dorje (H.H.Karmapa 8).
“When the Clouds Part” p.73: The Karmapa emphasizes that the tathāgata heart is the only ultimately real entity, which is permanent and able to perform functions (such as enlightened activity). He also repeatedly says that the tathāgata heart and sentient beings are mutually exclusive since sentient beings are nothing but the sum of adventitious stains. Thus, sentient beings neither possess nor are the tathāgata heart. This also means that it is not the case that buddha nature exists in sentient beings, but sentient beings (seem to) exist in buddha nature, just like clouds floating in the sky without affecting it.
So here Buddha Nature, which originally was 100% about sentient beings, in this “Empty-of-Other” presentation excludes sentient beings. Kinda suggests that it is transpersonal—at least in HHK8’s interpretation. So don’t think there’s one Shentong view.

Note also Buddha Nature is described as “...the only ultimately real entity, which is permanent and able to perform functions (such as enlightened activity).”

Malcolm wrote:
There are mistaken views about tathagatagarbha, this is just one more. Coming from a Karmapa does not make it less erroneous. It also directly contradicts the Uttaratantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 4th, 2020 at 10:28 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
read Spinoza or something.

Malcolm wrote:
Spinoza was basically a materialist on the model of Epicurus.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 4th, 2020 at 10:27 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
I have never seen any arguments for momentariness of self ..

Malcolm wrote:
Why would there be arguments for the momentary existence of something that exists only as a nominal  designation?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 4th, 2020 at 8:39 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
kirtu said:
Shentong is not perennialism.

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
It’s also not monistic, but whatever.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 4th, 2020 at 8:32 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Naw...I’m not letting you get away with “perennialist” here without you defining it precisely. You’ve done this before, Perennialism is both a specific school of modern and historical spiritual thought, and a general tendency : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_philosophy

So, which one are you talking about and in what way is he a perennialist?
This way, from the Wikipedia article:
The perennial philosophy (Latin: philosophia perennis), also referred to as perennialism and perennial wisdom, is a perspective in philosophy and spirituality that views all of the world's religious traditions as sharing a single, metaphysical truth or origin from which all esoteric and exoteric knowledge and doctrine has grown.
Also why are you associating perennialism with Shentong?
From the same Wikipedia article the next sentence is: Perennialism has its roots in the Renaissance interest in neo-Platonism and its idea of the One, from which all existence emanates.
So, like that.

Malcolm wrote:
So a BINO.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 4th, 2020 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
I want to badly have a place in vajrayana but I have some beliefs I can’t let go of.one of these is a undifferentiated ultimate reality.I have read plotinus arguments for the one in his works,father spitzer and ramanuja and Shankara in their Brahma sutra commentaries when dealing with momentary consciousness aswell as the govindabhasya to the Brahma sutras and I am convinced based on all these authors that A permanent unconditioned self exists. ....

Again I’m not here to argue for this view as it could be wrong I just am personally convinced that it’s true and I want to practice vajrayana so I wonder if any schools can accommodate my viewpoints?



kirtu said:
NO WAY!!!!  JUST GIVE UP NOW!!!


Just joking.

No Vajrayana school will support these views.

But it doesn't matter (this is directly in opposition to our friend who claims that your view constitutes a root downfall from the start).

People start in different places.  There was once a Mahasiddha who began completely as an eternalist, just like you**.  He was actually sort of tricked  into practicing Buddhist tantra because his guru was actually a Buddhist sadhu and not a Hindu sadhu (I don't quite know the correct term here - if this happened nowadays we would say his guru wasn't actually an adherent of Sanātana dharma).

It doesn't really matter.  The main thing is turning to the accumulation of merit, turning away from the pursuit of negativities, deepening lovingkindness and compassion.  Wisdom grows from that.

If you feel that you want to "use Vajrayana Buddhism" to develop your compassion and positive qualities then go for it.

Kirt


Malcolm wrote:
This is quite unsound advice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 3rd, 2020 at 11:23 PM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
I want to badly have a place in vajrayana but I have some beliefs I can’t let go of.one of these is a undifferentiated ultimate reality.I have read plotinus arguments for the one in his works,father spitzer and ramanuja and Shankara in their Brahma sutra commentaries when dealing with momentary consciousness aswell as the govindabhasya to the Brahma sutras and I am convinced based on all these authors that A permanent unconditioned self exists.I have read both arguments for momentariness and arguments against a self from various authors in Indian literature but remain unconvinced by their arguments and I just can’t let go of this belief.oh well that’s my karma.I have read the debates between nayaiyikas and mimamsaka and Buddhists who espoused a momentary consciousness and I was convinced a self exists.

I read the golden light sutra and sanghata sutra and It says that you will basically never abandon the dharma or stray from the path once you’ve read it and I’ve recited mantras from Gelug sources at that which promise a last rebirth in the womb and no retrogression so I don’t think I will ever leave Buddhism explicitly though my understanding of it may be faulty due to human error and karma and imperfections .

So I need a buddhism that will accommodate by brahman view.I heard some kagyus and Jonangpa believe in this .should I follow them?

I’m not here to argue wether I’m wrong or right I just want to stay in buddhism and have a school wich can accommodate my seeming unshakeable view in a brahman.

Again I’m not here to argue for this view as it could be wrong I just am personally convinced that it’s true and I want to practice vajrayana so I wonder if any schools can accommodate my viewpoints?

Usually questions like this receive a lot of frustration but I’m trying my best to be Buddhist and this is just where I’m at at the moment.

Malcolm wrote:
You can be a Buddhist in Name Only (BINO). But you can’t practice Vajrayana because possession of an extreme view such as yours entails an immediate root downfall.

Artziebetter1 said:
I have seen arguments that this is what the Jonangpa believed and some karma kagyus:a undifferentiated ultimate reality that isn’t a object of consciousness .are you saying black shentongpas can’t practice vajrayana.how is this different from the black shentong view?

Malcolm wrote:
Sigh. Your concepts are a big obstacle for you. People with lots of obstinate concepts are not really suited for Vajrayana practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 3rd, 2020 at 10:55 PM
Title: Re: Is monastic life a right livelihood?
Content:
SaaZ said:
I can believe that generosity could be a form of practising non-attachment, thus generating merits. However, is not that people need me to become a monk to start being generous;

Malcolm wrote:
The merit generated by making offerings to the Three Jewels surpasses that of generosity to mundane objects. As a monastic, one represents the Sangha jewel.

This is the reason the Buddha encouraged generosity on the part of the lay population. It’s your vows that make you a special object for merit generation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 3rd, 2020 at 10:19 PM
Title: Re: Is there a place for me in Tibetan buddhism?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
I want to badly have a place in vajrayana but I have some beliefs I can’t let go of.one of these is a undifferentiated ultimate reality.I have read plotinus arguments for the one in his works,father spitzer and ramanuja and Shankara in their Brahma sutra commentaries when dealing with momentary consciousness aswell as the govindabhasya to the Brahma sutras and I am convinced based on all these authors that A permanent unconditioned self exists.I have read both arguments for momentariness and arguments against a self from various authors in Indian literature but remain unconvinced by their arguments and I just can’t let go of this belief.oh well that’s my karma.I have read the debates between nayaiyikas and mimamsaka and Buddhists who espoused a momentary consciousness and I was convinced a self exists.

I read the golden light sutra and sanghata sutra and It says that you will basically never abandon the dharma or stray from the path once you’ve read it and I’ve recited mantras from Gelug sources at that which promise a last rebirth in the womb and no retrogression so I don’t think I will ever leave Buddhism explicitly though my understanding of it may be faulty due to human error and karma and imperfections .

So I need a buddhism that will accommodate by brahman view.I heard some kagyus and Jonangpa believe in this .should I follow them?

I’m not here to argue wether I’m wrong or right I just want to stay in buddhism and have a school wich can accommodate my seeming unshakeable view in a brahman.

Again I’m not here to argue for this view as it could be wrong I just am personally convinced that it’s true and I want to practice vajrayana so I wonder if any schools can accommodate my viewpoints?

Usually questions like this receive a lot of frustration but I’m trying my best to be Buddhist and this is just where I’m at at the moment.

Malcolm wrote:
You can be a Buddhist in Name Only (BINO). But you can’t practice Vajrayana because possession of an extreme view such as yours entails an immediate root downfall.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 3rd, 2020 at 10:14 AM
Title: Re: Biden's Cabinet
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1334295732917039106?s=21
I have no words.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 3rd, 2020 at 7:36 AM
Title: Re: Biden's Cabinet
Content:
Queequeg said:
Its a two front war, and I don't know if the old hands are innovative, flexible, and bold enough to take on the totally irresponsible right populism. How do you defend against people who have no scruples at all without going on an overwhelming offensive against them?

Malcolm wrote:
Take a look at GA today—mind blowing.


And you should see Ghouliani in MI tonight in the MI house oversight committee hearing that's happening right now. Mind blowing, he is repeating the all the same lies they fired Powell for spewing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 3rd, 2020 at 7:34 AM
Title: Re: Is monastic life a right livelihood?
Content:


SaaZ said:
Moreover, sticking with the Theravada e Zen tradition, it seems to me that the emphasis is put on free one self rather than generate merit for others. Bottom line, I personally not find it a good argument.

Malcolm wrote:
It is the support lay people offer those who have renounced lay life and taken up robes that generates merit, not your meditation. Their generosity generates merit for them. You don't generate it for them. You understand? It does not really matter whether you find it a "good argument." This is what the Buddha taught. You can accept it or reject it, but you have to understand why he taught what he taught and to whom he taught it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 3rd, 2020 at 4:36 AM
Title: Re: Biden's Cabinet
Content:
Queequeg said:
I can't imagine Sanders putting together a cabinet like this. I'm saying this without judgement.

It looks like a thoroughly competent cabinet. If all goes well, the federal government will not be news for the next four years because they do their jobs without scandals.

I'm worried, though, that its not going to be enough to fend off another Republican scorched Earth assault on the country, especially if its some Trumpist in 2024.

Whatever else happens, Biden is going to have to make the lives of lower middle and working class voters palpably better. Its not going to be easy because the economy will be knee capped coming out of this winter - I don't think we've hit the wall yet. If the vaccine(s) works, recovery will be quick... I expect the Republicans to do what they can to sabotage the economy, though.

I see your point that competence is required at this time. I'm worried at the domestic Vandals running amok, though, at the same time. Its a two front war, and I don't know if the old hands are innovative, flexible, and bold enough to take on the totally irresponsible right populism. How do you defend against people who have no scruples at all without going on an overwhelming offensive against them?

Malcolm wrote:
Take a look at GA today—mind blowing.


https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1334225962326700034?s=20


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 3rd, 2020 at 3:42 AM
Title: Re: Biden's Cabinet
Content:
Queequeg said:
If Bernie Sanders was the incoming president, would you support the same approach to building the cabinet?

Malcolm wrote:
With a possible Republican senate? Sure. I definitely would support Blinken for State.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 3rd, 2020 at 1:25 AM
Title: Biden's Cabinet
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/12/02/biden-and-the-lost-art-of-political-cabinetry/?fbclid=IwAR2DKuE39FvOTrU0zbZQjfo3xiVcN32p4kEQFJMZMAmZxJPWZ_uuzk1BHNA


Unknown said:
The worst president in U.S. history and the worst Cabinet in U.S. history will soon be succeeded by Joe Biden and the promise of the best and most effective Cabinet in recent time.  Biden’s success will ultimately be determined by the political posture of Senator Mitch McConnell, but the initial appointments to his administration point to a strategy designed for political success.  The punditry class that dominates the mainstream media is wrong to suggest that his first nominees are insufficiently progressive or merely represent Obama 2.0.  Without exception, Biden has turned to individuals with the experience and expertise needed to rehabilitate a government that Donald Trump has severely ravaged.

Malcolm wrote:
I strongly agree with this guy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 3rd, 2020 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: Is monastic life a right livelihood?
Content:
SaaZ said:
where one "leave" the society to develop one own personal practice, while keep being dependent from the help of the society.

Malcolm wrote:
That's not why one becomes a monastic. One becomes a Buddhist monastic because one has genuine renunciation.

Further, by living on dana you allow other people to generate merit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2020 at 11:54 PM
Title: Re: In 543 AD Emperor Justinian put the Pope in jail for a year
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
However later someone went to that monastery...

Malcolm wrote:
Plus, anyone with any knowledge of history knows that there were no Tibetan Buddhist monasteries at all in Ladakh during the time Jesus supposedly spent there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2020 at 10:53 PM
Title: Re: Reaching the path
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
Alan Wallace talks sometimes about so called "reaching the path". Has anyone seen anything about this topic from other teachers, or could one share ones understanding what it means, etc?

Malcolm wrote:
He is talking about the five paths, which begin with the path of accumulation. That path begins with rousing Mahāyāna bodhicitta.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2020 at 8:19 PM
Title: Re: Vipassanā
Content:


Astus said:
'You observe this structure that initially appears to be so solid, the entire physical structure at the level of sensation. Observing, observing you will reach the stage when you experience that the entire physical structure is nothing but subatomic particles: throughout the body, nothing but kalapas (subatomic particles). And even these tiniest subatomic particles are not solid. They are mere vibration, just wavelets.'
( https://pariyatti.org/Free-Resources/Articles-and-Excerpts/Buddhas-Path-is-to-Experience-Reality )

Malcolm wrote:
Someone has been reading too much physics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2020 at 8:15 PM
Title: Re: In 543 AD Emperor Justinian put the Pope in jail for a year
Content:
Aemilius said:
name Christ comes from Krishna (meaning "dark" or "black-blue").

Malcolm wrote:
No.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2020 at 5:29 AM
Title: Re: "Extensive Daily Confessions of Cakrasamvara" by Bhuripa
Content:
Lobsang Damchoi said:
Does anyone have any knowledge of this (possibly) Sakya text?

I found this intriguing title in the Great Mind Training Collection merely cited as the source of a quotation. The quote doesn't mention the yidam and is a standard main training precept. The full citation is below. Thanks,

[author:] Bhuripa.
Extensive Daily Confessions of Cakrasamvara [Practice].
Dpal 'khor lo mde mchog gi rgyun bshags rgyas pa. Toh 1533, rgyud 'grel za. P2244, pha.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a Sakya text, it is an Indian text.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2020 at 4:18 AM
Title: Barr Calls it For Biden:
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2020 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: In 543 AD Emperor Justinian put the Pope in jail for a year
Content:
Brahma said:
In this sense everything being a product of the mind is a similar orthodoxy in Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
One difference is that there is no godhead in Buddhadharma, and no creator, and no creation. There is only beginningless dependent origination.


Brahma said:
The world has life to it, so why not meditate on the basis of Immortality? It is found in all Spiritual Teachings, and mentioned by Jesus even by His followers when He asked who Jews back then thought He was, as possibly Elijah, or one of the other Prophets, when Peter simply reveals Him to be the Christ. And Jesus mentions, that for these who are willing to accept it, John the Baptist is the Elijah that is to come. Elijah has a very distinct personality and individuality, so Jesus was a great Teacher who understood reincarnation and He could obviously identify someone's reincarnation according to that part of the New Testament.

Malcolm wrote:
Jesus's trip had nothing to with Buddhadharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 1st, 2020 at 10:07 PM
Title: Re: Vipassanā
Content:
Astus said:
As for the Theravada view of material dharmas, the smallest unit according to post-canonical teachings are called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalapa_%28atomism%29, they are considered composite,

Malcolm wrote:
Not that different than paramanus, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 1st, 2020 at 7:57 PM
Title: Re: Dalit Buddhism
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
My teacher has worked extensively with the Ambedkarites.  Did you have any specific questions?

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
No, but thanks.

I personally believe that politics and religion should stay separated. Others here believe differently. I just thought I’d share with them a politically oriented Buddhist sect. They may find it interesting.

Malcolm wrote:
They also hotly reject rebirth, so, BINOs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 1st, 2020 at 7:53 PM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
Queequeg said:
I think this map is based on a more recent book. https://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029

That Albion book looks interesting. I'll never read it, but I'll look around for the crib notes.

Malcolm wrote:
I’ve read both. The former book from which the map is drawn is based on Albion’s Seed and merely extends its arguments.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 1st, 2020 at 10:34 AM
Title: Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics
Content:
javier.espinoza.t said:
my root guru told me everything one would need about guardians, but never ever mentioned gesar.

maybe my teacher chnn practiced it, but it wasn't that useful or didn't matter or worked after all. otherwise it would be "there", somewhere at least.

i apreciate your messages guys. i take my leave.

Malcolm wrote:
What were you saying about Gesar and CHNN?

https://www.dzamlinggar.net/en/support/fundraising-prizes/divination-cord


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 1st, 2020 at 10:28 AM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:


Queequeg said:
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-states-2015-7

Malcolm wrote:
This map,is a bit facile, but the idea is ultimately based on the book Albion’s Seed by David Hacket Fischer.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 1st, 2020 at 3:50 AM
Title: Re: Vipassanā
Content:
monkishlife said:
In Therevada, non-duality is seen as not so important; in fact, Bikkhu Bodhi says that Theravada Buddhism is neither dualistic or non-dualistic.

Malcolm wrote:
This is the position of all Buddhist schools. There cannot be one without many and vice versa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 1st, 2020 at 1:24 AM
Title: Re: In 543 AD Emperor Justinian put the Pope in jail for a year
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I found Origen's theology on this point interesting:
So, we were first made as minds, and as minds we were made in the image of God, imago dei. And since, as the scriptures tell us, “God is a consuming fire” (Deut. 4:24, 9:3; Heb. 12:29), minds were made in the image of this fire. In fact, they were made to be like irons in the great fire of God: as long as they were plunged into the fire, they were aflame. But just like irons, when they were removed from God’s fire, they cooled and became evermore solid and slow. This cooling is our mythological descent into souls and bodies, the fall into flesh.

For Origen, all of this is by God’s design. Our fall into flesh is in fact our opportunity for rehabilitation. The original fiery mind moved quickly, too quickly, and so it was easily distracted. The descent into this world slows the mind down, now encumbered by a soul and a body, and trains it over many, many lifetimes to pay steadier attention. Whenever we successfully pay steady attention to anything, this or that, we inch closer to contemplation, and we blaze just a little brighter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 1st, 2020 at 1:20 AM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:


Mantrik said:
Why would Europeans be any different?
The geography works against parochial isolation as many of our poorest will experience a mix of cultures and ethnicity just a couple of hours away 'abroad'. Cosmopolitan describes most EU cities, actually, and I'm pretty sure that a huge proportion of our European population has an international perspective, made quite poignant at the moment as the EU disintegrates.

Malcolm wrote:
You think the US is any different? I have about as much in common with New Yorkers as you do with the Dutch.

Mantrik said:
Bigoted racism and xenophobia for sure....... but they are not as isolated from other nations as parts of the USA or as inward-looking and able to be manipulated on that score.

Malcolm wrote:
Go to Umbria...you'll be very surprised.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 30th, 2020 at 11:55 PM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
Mantrik said:
To some of us outside of the US many of its citizens seem to have no international (or national?) perspective and think themselves badly treated parochially...

Malcolm wrote:
Ahem, same forces that drove Brexit, and for largely the same reasons.

The myth of the sophisticated and cosmopolitan European is just that—a myth.

I've been all over Europe and the UK, and encountered exactly the same parochialism in Europeans that I've encountered in Americans.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 30th, 2020 at 8:23 PM
Title: Re: In 543 AD Emperor Justinian put the Pope in jail for a year
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://hds.harvard.edu/news/2019/03/19/flesh-and-fire-reincarnation-and-universal-salvation-early-church #

More apropos, Origen’s heresy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 30th, 2020 at 8:04 PM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:


Minobu said:
it just came off sort of well you know how the other half lives...

wasn't knocking you really...when mired in poverty remarks like that hurt..

Malcolm wrote:
Having lived on considerably less than this, I understand that 46k a year for a family of four is peanuts. That’s 11k per person. That’s nothing.

Minobu said:
again you missed my point ...and went...well..

look there are millions of americans and people working in the ?USofA that could only dream of the amount you mentioned..tens of millions...

it's one of the podiums best avoided by a person of privilege..


we live in a caste system Malcolm...
In Britain the moment you speak it is a pigeon hole situation...


it goes beyond being sensitive to a group of people dreaming of a life

Malcolm wrote:
Peanuts is peanuts. It’s an objective fact. The present federal minimum wage is much lower than that, not even peanuts, just crumbs from the table.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 30th, 2020 at 1:11 AM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:



Minobu said:
i betcha Malcolm comes from wealth...never thought about this , but that remark speaks volumes...

Wealthy people don't really get what poverty is...46 grand is above the poverty line but a disaster for someone born into wealth...

Malcolm wrote:
For most of my life, I have lived on considerably less than this.

Minobu said:
it just came off sort of well you know how the other half lives...

wasn't knocking you really...when mired in poverty remarks like that hurt..

Malcolm wrote:
Having lived on considerably less than this, I understand that 46k a year for a family of four is peanuts. That’s 11k per person. That’s nothing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 30th, 2020 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
$46,800 per year. Peanuts.

FiveSkandhas said:
Hey, speak for yourself.

Minobu said:
i betcha Malcolm comes from wealth...never thought about this , but that remark speaks volumes...

Wealthy people don't really get what poverty is...46 grand is above the poverty line but a disaster for someone born into wealth...

Malcolm wrote:
For most of my life, I have lived on considerably less than this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 29th, 2020 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Dan74 said:
This is an interesting angle, and while I don't think it tells the whole story, it underscores how money has become such a driving force, a conscious and unconscious motivator of all that is happening and why this system really needs to be torn down. It's already ingratiated itself so deep into our culture, it might be nearly too late.

Queequeg said:
"has become"? as in, it wasn't already?

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

That nugget is some 1900 years old, and it wasn't novel when it was written down. See Code of Hammurabi, for instance.

Its been too late for several millennia, friend. We limp along with our vices.

Dan74 said:
I don't know, QQ. While avarice is old as time, yes, Consumerism, as it applies to every facet of our lives, invading and taking over not only our culture and spirituality, but even the most private sphere, is unprecedented, I think. The late Capitalist ability to monetise everything, to turn everything and everyone into a consumable, our attention, being the latest victim to the parasitic Social Media and clickbait, is unmatched.

Yes, Medieval Church sold Indulgencies. The reason this is so well known is because it stood out. It was perhaps a watershed moment. Now money has become the new original Abhidhammic dhamma, that everything else is composed of.

Malcolm wrote:
Arguably, capitalism was really created when the Church created purgatory so that Christian bankers could still get into heaven.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 29th, 2020 at 9:38 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 29th, 2020 at 11:18 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
PeterC said:
I’ve just read the federal appeals court decision on the PA voting case.  It is...brutal. Written by a judge nominated by Trump, on a panel of three all nominated by Republican presidents.  The last section is clearly a message to their ideological fellow travellers on the Supreme Court to let this one go.

Malcolm wrote:
These clowns just don’t know when to go home:

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/527838-pennsylvania-supreme-court-strikes-down-gop-bid-to-stop-election
PeterC said:
The Pennsylvania Supreme Court on Saturday rejected a last-ditch bid from Republicans including Rep. Mike Kelly (R-Pa.) to halt the certification of the 2020 election results in the Keystone State....


“Upon consideration of the parties’ filings in Commonwealth Court, we hereby dismiss the petition for review with prejudice based upon Petitioners’ failure to file their facial constitutional challenge in a timely manner,.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 29th, 2020 at 9:44 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Ignorant_Fool said:
DYING IN THE STATE OF GURUYOGA
Chögyal Namkhai Norbu
The Practice of the Night...

Malcolm wrote:
Exactly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 29th, 2020 at 6:03 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
myfirst.jpg (112.3 KiB) Viewed 261 times


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 29th, 2020 at 4:37 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Aloke said:
The Community did Shitro for him. Why not?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no need to do it FOR Elio. But people like to get together and mourn.

I, on the other hand, prefer to celebrate Elio's liberation in the bardo. YMMV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 28th, 2020 at 2:53 AM
Title: Re: Vipassanā
Content:
monkishlife said:
I believe strongly in non-duality, so I cannot be a Theravada Buddhist for that very reason.

Malcolm wrote:
You can't be a Dzogchen practitioner either then.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 28th, 2020 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
pemachophel said:
Magnus, So very sorry to hear this. My wife and I will do sur for him for 49 days.

Malcolm wrote:
No need, he is a Dzogchen practitioner with deep understanding of the path. He is not an ordinary person for whom we need to do Shitro, sur, and these kinds of things.

The correct thing to do is sing do Ati Guru Yoga and sing Song of the Vajra in his honor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 28th, 2020 at 12:06 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
None of that means much to me, I don't like endless war, "polite" militarism and austerity.

Malcolm wrote:
Endless war is a GOP thing. Leaders are required to maintain adequate defenses, even Buddha recognized this.

kirtu said:
By no means.  Korea, Vietnam, Clinton's engagement in Iraq, Yemen and the Sudan, Obama's disaster in Syria.

Malcolm wrote:
Obama's foreign policy was failed in Syria, but the Syrian situation was actually caused by the Iraqi's, who insisted that all US troops leave on schedule in 2011. Obama's hands were largely tied.

Iraq's problems were caused by Hussein, who was using chemical weapons against the Kurds, etc., and because he felt cheated by the Kuwaitis who cut oil prices, against their agreements. The war in Iraq was a GOP project, and while Clinton indeed had involvement, and one can of course debate the sanctions which lead to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, mainly Clinton, apart from Kosovo, was engaged with Al Qaeda.

Johnson may have escalated the war in Vietnam, but he saw his error and declined to run on that basis. Nixon was the one who continued the war in Vietnam.

North Korea started the Korean War, not Truman. Our response in Korea was informed by the WWII. The US was determined to prevent the totalitarian take over of South Korea.


kirtu said:
Endless war is a fearful/arrogant American thing that stems from specific historical situations, chiefly WW 2, the lessons of which were generally misread.

Malcolm wrote:
Ummm...Americans, in general, did not want to enter WWII. So no. Americans like quick wars, easy wars, after the experience of the Civil War. After all, even in WWI, we were in that war for only 18 months.
Austerity is also a GOP trip.
That's deliberate propaganda, even if the GOP is/was a big fan of austerity.  Did the failed economic policies of the Obama Administration fall on deaf ears?  For Establishment D's they in fact did.
Huh? The economy and employment rebounded quite well under Obama and continued to do so under Trump (no thanks to him at all) until he botched it with covid.
To recap, in a 2nd Great Depression, brought on by R and D polices, some 20 M mostly older workers were pushed out of the workforce, were then reflexively told that their "skills" were "stale" (so you slapped a Star of David on us) and were locked out of the workforce through systematic age discrimination.  For the majority of people there was no evidence at all that their "sills" were "stale".  None at all.  It was just a justification for the policy pushed by some people (notably Oligarchs and some Congresspeople) and picked by by the media and repeated as propaganda just like Fox News did and does.  Those became desperate times with lots of suicide (initially reported by the press and then not) and lots of people contemplating suicide.
This has nothing to do with government policies. It had to do with the fact that older employees with seniority cost companies more money in terms of total compensation packages, and so on.

The one place we can agree here is that financial crisis of 2008 was a problem created when the Glass Stegal act was repealed. Pension fund managers were now allowed to invest in stocks rather than confining pension fund investing to bonds, thus exposing cities like Detroit to risk they were not prepared to take, etc. Dumb move, sure., while it happened under the Clinton Administration, it was voted into being by a GOP house and senate in 1999. It's roots however are to be found during the deregulation craze under Reagan. So again, GOP.
At the end of the day, you are on your own in these United States.  And whether it's policies are steered by R's or D's is irrelevant.
Yes, its has always been that way. In the US, you are free, either to starve or be successful. FDR tried to put in a safety net, as did Johnson. The GOP, especially Reaganites and their ludicrous "small government" theories have, always been against these measures coz "socialism."
Voting with my feet can't come soon enough (esp. since I've finally voted in what will be that last US federal election for me).
Good luck wherever you wind up going. You've never like living the US anyway for as long as I have known you. It's understandable, the US has a lot of flaws, blatant flaws. Still, its my home, and while I like and appreciate other countries, I like it here where I live in the Northeast. So I prefer to stay here and try and support what's good about our system, and try to improve what is flawed. YMMV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 27th, 2020 at 3:05 AM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
Queequeg said:
e'd all be happier.

Malcolm wrote:
Social well-being seems to be rather low on the list for the GOP in general.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 27th, 2020 at 2:09 AM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:



Queequeg said:
Honest dollar for an honest day's work. Or rather, 40hrs/wk at $22.50/hr. + OT.

Malcolm wrote:
$46,800 per year. Peanuts. But it would lift a hell of lot of people out of poverty.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 27th, 2020 at 2:05 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Let’s see, the guy in Yemen declared war on his birth country, so this hand wringing about extrajudicial killings of American citizens is, frankly, bullshit. He was self-avowed enemy of the USA. He lost his rights.
The Yemen famine is terrible, but that is a proxy war between the Saudis and Iran. As for US support, this is in Trump’s lap.
The torture of detainees was a Bush era thing.
Sanctions against Iran, again, a Trump policy. Obama was normalizing relations with Iran.
Libya, mainly, an EU thing.
In fact the people Biden has selected will restore the government to its proper working order. That is the first order of business. The rest of the progressive agenda is just going to have to wait.

Brunelleschi said:
Fair enough. You say the same thing about his 16-year-old son and 8-year-old niece I presume? The drone program was of course massively expanded by Obama.

Malcolm wrote:
It seems the son was in the company of a guy named Ibrahim al-Banna.

Nawar al-Awlaki was killed by Trump, not Obama, during his first exercise in murder. BTW, I don't justify what Obama did. Murder is murder. But that's what rulers have to do.

Drones are just airplanes without pilots. There is no difference between a missile launched from a plane or a drone.

Brunelleschi said:
No, America provided logistical support. Also, Samantha Powers who is joining the administration backed the invasion by Saudia Arabia, UAE, etcetera.

Malcolm wrote:
Logistical support meant mainly fueling aircraft. In any case, this remains a proxy war between Iran and the Saudi's. And as I said, Trump killed far more people in Yemen than Obama. In 2017 alone, Trump carried out 133 airstrikes in Yemen, compared to 155 between 2002 and 2017. As I said, this is in Trump's lap.

Biden will end all US involvement in Yemen.

As for Samantha Power, you do understand how administrations work, right? She is a disciplined diplomat. As a employee of State, she cannot very well argue that the US should not support its allies in the region—we have treaties with them and treaties are law.

However, before Powers left State, she was criticizing the airwar in Yemen.

Brunelleschi said:
No, I disagree. Furthermore, people directly involved with it are being recruited by Biden (see Camp NAMA) and Obama of course opted NOT to prosecute the people who built and ran these black sites.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I understand this is difficult for many people. People are freaking out about McChrystal, McRaven, and Powers being on the transition team. I would also point out that they also have knowledge of the past 20 years of Middle East history and its wars you and I have no idea about, because it is classified.

Brunelleschi said:
Yes, agreed. However, many people who are joining the administration support sanctions against Iran.

Malcolm wrote:
US policy towards Iran is stupid, and has been since Regan. Again, blame the GOP. Iran would like the deal resumed.

Brunelleschi said:
I doubt the rest of the progressive agenda will happen.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, not in the first four years. And if people are stupid, the left will start fighting with the center. Right now the left and the center have to stand together, otherwise, in 2024, there will be another fascist voted into office.

Brunelleschi said:
We obviously have different views regarding interventionism. Fair enough.

Malcolm wrote:
If it's a choice between interventions by the US and NATO or Russia or China. I'll take the US and NATO, thanks. And, BTW, Russia and China seem to be teaming up.

And don't forget, the present geopolitical climate is mostly a result of GOP policies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 10:33 PM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
The idea is out there. Once robotics and AI take the remaining middle class jobs you will have billions (incl. India and China) of people with no productive "purpose" but a global economy with the capacity to support them. I don't think in some form it is totally impossible.

Malcolm wrote:
I was referring to the US.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 10:03 PM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
What do you folks think about mandatory minimum income? i.e., everyone gets 30k minimum per year.

Sounds inflationary but if they give trillions to the banks and big business already maybe shifting it to the people would work...not enough of an economist to know...

Malcolm wrote:
It’s be great, but it will never happen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 9:37 PM
Title: Re: Online Ngondro programs
Content:
yagmort said:
on ngondrogar site there is a comparison of topics for longchen nyingthig and chetsün nyingthig ngöndros.

what i found intriguing is that chetsün nyingthig one has different set of preliminary thoughts:

1. Impermanence
2. Deceptive nature of pleasure
3. Futility of our projects
4. Futility of life in general
5. The irreversibility of liberation
6. The value of the guru's instruction
7. Training in non-thought samadhi

frankly, i feel that these thoughts click with me much better than more common ones (precious human rebirth, impermanence, karma, suffering of samsara), especially 2,3,4. i don't know if it's ok to ask as i don't have wang/lung for chetsün nyingthig ngöndro, but i'd like to know more about that. is it possible to share the part of chetsün nyingthig ngöndro about these thoughts without samaya violation (or the whole text)?

Malcolm wrote:
Cartland Dahl translated Jigme lingpa commentary on these.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 8:48 PM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
Queequeg said:
Infrastructure spending will prop up the middle class.

We don't have a wealth problem... The US has never been wealthier.

We have a wealth distribution problem. We can distribute wealth throughout the country by implementing public works programs to build out a modern infrastructure.

This will have concatenating positive effects beyond just employing people: the modern infrastructure will be the platform for future growth and prosperity - like the railroads, the highways, electrification, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, we need to go big, FDR big, on these issues— and renewables, climate mitigation, fiber-based internet rollouts in rural and urban communities,  etc., should be a large part of that, not just roads and bridges.

All at 22.50 minimum wage, and up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 8:37 PM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Delivering improvements in quality of life for the vast majority seems to me something that is beyond the control of the President. In many ways the US middle class is on a downward long-term trajectory that has multiple causes. Trump and many of his supporters seemed to believe that an isolated US with a return of manufacturing would help, but it appears in four years, hardly a dent was made in that direction. Meanwhile on the opposite side of the fence, it is believed by many that further globalization and engagement with the world at large is the road to prosperity.

Either way, the middle class keeps hollowing out and I am convinced it is not something a president can solve. It's a broader cultural, social, and economic shift.

PeterC said:
As Yoda said, that is why you fail.

Political discussion in the US is way to focussed on whining about what can’t be done and navel-gazing on the obscenely-expensive spectacle of the endless elections.  This will go on until an administration starts to take fixing issues seriously.

Malcolm wrote:
I think Biden does take this seriously. He has the most experience in Gvt., of any president we’ve seen in US history. This is really a great plus. And, Biden was an anti-spectacle.

He’ll spend four years cleaning up the mess left by Trump, and then hopefully he will spend the next four after that really setting this country on a correct path. Then after that hopefully it will be eight years of Harris. By then, maybe America will have driven its fascists back into the goddamn closet where they should have stayed to begin with.

The worst thing to happen now is for idiots on the left to think now is a good time for third parties. Let the right go down that rabbit hole,let’s encourage them to do so, in fact. But as a voting block, the left has to stick with the center.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 12:11 PM
Title: Re: 84 mahasiddhas book (Lopez or Dowman)
Content:
Heruka85 said:
Lopez's is not actually a translation of Abhaydatta's work but an illustrated guide to the Mahasiddhas with just a brief description of each of the 84. I would recommend Buddha's Lions by James Robinson if you want a translation of the Abhayadatta text, maybe with the Lopez because the art is a really good supplement. I can't say anything about the quality of Robinson's translation abilities but it is the most academically respected at least.

Malcolm wrote:
Robinsons is also fine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 9:45 AM
Title: Re: 84 mahasiddhas book (Lopez or Dowman)
Content:
climb-up said:
Has anyone read, or at least seen, both Keith Dowman’s book “Masters of Mahamudra” and Donald Lopez’s “Seeing the Sacred in Samsara”.

They both feature biographies of all 84 mahasiddha, I believe (is that right?). Is either one particularly better or worse?

Thank you

Malcolm wrote:
Lopez’s translation is an improvement.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 9:44 AM
Title: Re: 84 mahasiddhas book (Lopez or Dowman)
Content:
climb-up said:
Has anyone read, or at least seen, both Keith Dowman’s book “Masters of Mahamudra” and Donald Lopez’s “Seeing the Sacred in Samsara”.

They both feature biographies of all 84 mahasiddha, I believe (is that right?). Is either one particularly better or worse?

Thank you

Malcolm wrote:
Lopez is the better translator.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 7:07 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:


tobes said:
My worry here is in the irresistible urge to denigrate paths which we ourselves have not practiced, have certainly not obtained any fruition, and are therefore not in a sound position to critique.

Malcolm wrote:
There are only two kinds of paths— those based on mind and those based on gnosis. The latter are always superior to the former.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 5:24 AM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
Queequeg said:
Malcolm, I hear you. But as you noted, Americans are so dumb.


Danny said:
Again low informed voters, do you know how condescending you come across as?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_information_voter

Queequeg said:
I don't care. Stupid is stupid, and this country is full of stupid voters. You want to doll it up with a euphemism? Lipstick on a pig. Go ahead.

Malcolm wrote:
The funny thing is that low information voting is typically a charge made against GOP voters.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 4:44 AM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
Queequeg said:
Malcolm, I hear you. But as you noted, Americans are so dumb.


Danny said:
Again low informed voters, do you know how condescending you come across as?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_information_voter
Low information voters, also known as misinformation voters, are people who may vote yet are generally poorly informed about issues. The phrase is mainly used in the United States and has become popular since the mid-1990s.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, describes Trump voters perfectly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 2:52 AM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
Norwegian said:
Will Biden reverse all of Trump's harmful environmental politics? Or will he conveniently ignore some of them, since they've already been set in motion by Trump? And can one trust a former DuPont consultant to be the right man for such an important job?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, he will reverse them all back to Obama's policies, as much as he can.

The guy everyone is freaking about is a former EPA deputy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Michael_McCabe

Macabe has been on transition teams before. And then there is this:

"Michael McCabe has vast experience and knowledge of the EPA to help the Biden-Harris administration tackle the challenges facing our country. McCabe has recused himself from any matters involving the Toxic Substances Control Act. Additionally, he has also committed to not taking a position within the Biden administration.”

He has worked with Biden for many years, but Biden knows he is a bit "toxic." So, he is not going to be heading up the EPA. He jsut has institutional memory. People really need to get a grip.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 2:40 AM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
Danny said:
Well I would give it the 24 hour rule.
Will wait and see if Biden delivers all you ever dreamed and wished for.


Ok moving on.. what exactly does Biden stand for?

kirtu said:
Biden stands for Establishment D policies.

Malcolm wrote:
Biden is inheriting another ruined economy from the GOP, just like Obama did, just like Clinton did, just like Carter did. The rest is not specifically directed at you Kirt.

[rant]

Americans are so dumb. They vote in the GOP cause "taxes," the GOP then cuts taxes, raises the deficit skyhigh, leaving economic ruin in their wake. The Democrats come in, fix it all, give the US a strong economy again, and then it starts all over again. Thank goodness there was only four years of Trump. 8 years would have been economic holocaust, not just carnage. I hope, but cannot be certain, that the GOP has ruined their brand for the next 20 years.

And all these people who bitch about neoliberalism—get a clue. As I said before, Isolationism is bad economics. Trump proved it; Hoover proved it, and the 19th century proved it. Granted, forcing austerity programs on countries does not work. It's also bad economics. But trade liberalization is a good thing, not a bad thing. What the Trump policies intended to do was to harm our trade allies for short terms gains; but in the end, we all would have lost.

Small government people need to wake up also—the only way to defend against corporate malfeasance is large government and strong regulation.

I really hope Biden strengthens and reinforces NATO and the UN. It is necessary, not just to bring Russia to heal, but also Poland and Hungary.

Trump ceded American soft power in the Pacific to China—that is a real problem for India as well Indonesia, Australia, we need to strengthen our presence there, both economically and militarily, just as Obama was doing toward the end of his administration.

We need to restore the continuity of diplomacy that was interrupted by Trump's diplomatic malfeasance. I am personally quite satisfied that Biden is placing Obama Admin veterans in his cabinet. They are competent and will restore the executive branch to proper working order. They know how shit is supposed to work.

America's reputation is badly damaged, but the route to salvaging that is not to promote some progressive dream team who likely cannot even get past the senate, but to put in place competent technocrats who are good at their jobs, who have served under multiple administrations.

So far, under the GOP we have had one paranoid vice president who led us into a war based on false intelligence (Cheney) and set the seed for undermining democracy in our country (Patriot Act), and a paranoid, malignant narcissist of a president who has nearly tore our democracy out from the root.

Therefore, the job before sane Americans is to make sure that GOP never returns to power in our lifetime. We've found out that there are 74 million people in this country, mostly racist white people, who willingly vote for fascists, because that is what the GOP party has become, a party of racists and fascists. That is pretty damn frightening. So wake up and stop dreaming about some other reality. [/rant]


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 2:08 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Queequeg said:
I realized for people outside looking in at these conversations - we were cheering hard for Biden to win... and now that he won, we have our knives out for him. I wonder what impression its making on you. LOL

Ayu said:
I guess, you Americans are anxious because you have been hostages of a nutcase president. It was like a nightmare and you can't believe it's REALLY OVER NOW.
I think, you will see times of relief - even if Bernie would be far better.
'Not like Trump' will be a bigger relief than you can imagine right now. [IMHO - I hope so.]

Malcolm wrote:
People are just bitching about the fact that Americans are more conservative than they like, in general, and word "socialism" gives them the heebee jeebees.

Biden will do a fine job. And once we have restored sanity to our day to day government, that is the various departments of the executive branch, and cleaned up the carnage of the last four years, etc., then we can start talking sense to people. In the meantime, we have covid to deal with, 40 million Americans looking at becoming homeless because the Insane Clown Posse in the White House never ever had any intention of doing anything other than grifting the nation. It will sweet justice indeed if Scotland strips Trump of his assets there. I am sure at this very moment Barr is shredding documents, while the rest of Trump's lackeys are doing everything they can to harm the national interest. They should all be sent to Gitmo, in my opinion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Queequeg said:
I realized for people outside looking in at these conversations - we were cheering hard for Biden to win... and now that he won, we have our knives out for him. I wonder what impression its making on you. LOL

Minobu said:
yeah i was surprised that this attitude arose..

but what you are wishing for demands a whole new paradigm for America.

for me when i see people in america criticizing socialist  ideals for people in such a rich country i scratch my head and wonder if it is really their mind or a convoluted one put out by the richest and most powerful capitalists in the world.

then why people do not want a better social system for free medi care...

Looking at Canada and talking about wait times and such is just not right.

Our governments are working, sometimes it's shelved , on better wait times...

but our population is aging and they take up a lot of medical assistance.

it's not excuse to scrap the idea of universal health system ...


you are the only G7 country that has no free medi care system ...and people rant they don't want it...weirdness galore...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 12:40 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:


tobes said:
But these are just sayings, assertions and beliefs. None is satisfactory, according to mahamudra, dzogchen, shentong, rangtong, or advaita vedanta. All agree that the yogic realisation exceeds such conceptual or semantic or rational approaches.

So that leaves us the with basic possibility of getting the realisation oneself and then coming onto Dharmawheel to say 'it is like this, but not like that' or..........accepting we're basically pissing into the wind with such discussions.

Malcolm wrote:
Advaita is strictly rational. Advaitans characteristically deride yoga. It is the highest perspective in Indian philosophy. Some people might argue that Trika is, but Trika is realist, even if they are a nondualist school like Advaita.

Madhyamaka, no matter which variety one subscribes, is strictly based on intellectual analysis as well.

It is only Vajrayāna that the example/ultimate wisdom pointed out/realized at the time of empowerment takes precedence over intellectual analysis. When this is realized, it is called mahāmudra or dzogchen. When one is a Vajrayāna practitioner, it does not matter much which intellectual view one subscribes to, whether Madhyamaka or Yogacāra, since the view at the time of the empowerment experienced is a correct, experiential Madhyamaka view. By practicing Vajrayāna practices such as the two stages, and so on, one cultivates this experiential view for a long while, eventually leading its realization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 12:32 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Maybe not, but we can talk about the history and source of Shentong realization. It comes from the Kalachakra. Specifically as practiced in Eastern Tibet

Malcolm wrote:
Yumo Mikyod Dorje was from the region of Kailash, not Eastern Tibet.

https://treasuryoflives.org/biographies/view/Yumowa-Mikyo-Dorje/TBRC_P2589:
The Jonang tradition would ultimately place Yumo as a key link in the Tibetan Kālacakra lineage; Tāranātha would cite him as an advocate of their distinctive position of "other-emptiness" (gzhan stong) in a tantric context.
Perhaps you meant as practiced today in the Amdo region, where the Jonang tradition survived.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 26th, 2020 at 12:26 AM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:
Queequeg said:
This wasn't a vote FOR Biden. This was a vote AGAINST Trump.

Malcolm wrote:
It was also a vote for continued American Hegemony, rather than American Isolationism. Don't forget that.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 25th, 2020 at 10:06 PM
Title: Re: weird as...
Content:


Danny said:
Ok moving on.. what exactly does Biden stand for?

Malcolm wrote:
Well, he doesn’t need to stand for anything. The fact he isn’t a malignant narcissist is sufficient.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 25th, 2020 at 8:41 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
None of that means much to me, I don't like endless war, "polite" militarism and austerity.

Malcolm wrote:
Endless war is a GOP thing. Leaders are required to maintain adequate defenses, even Buddha recognized this. Austerity is also a GOP trip.

Brunelleschi said:
Hmm, what? Biden's new cabinet members have been avid supporters of and/or contributed to the Iraq war, the bombing of Yemen and the subsequent mass famine, the Drone program (including extrajudicial killings of American citizens), torture of detainees, immunity to soldiers involved in the war in Afghanistan, sanctions against Iran contributing to a lack of medicine and worsening the country's response to Covid, the collapse of Libya and the selling of black Africans on the open slave market, etcetera.

Malcolm wrote:
Let’s see, the guy in Yemen declared war on his birth country, so this hand wringing about extrajudicial killings of American citizens is, frankly, bullshit. He was self-avowed enemy of the USA. He lost his rights.

The Yemen famine is terrible, but that is a proxy war between the Saudis and Iran. As for US support, this is in Trump’s lap.

The torture of detainees was a Bush era thing.

Sanctions against Iran, again, a Trump policy. Obama was normalizing relations with Iran.

Libya, mainly, an EU thing.

In fact the people Biden has selected will restore the government to its proper working order. That is the first order of business. The rest of the progressive agenda is just going to have to wait.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 25th, 2020 at 11:00 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
TPTT would have limited China’s power the sane way NATO curtailed Russia’s. Worrying about union jobs that are noncompetitive  and obsolete just to please the latest political debutante at the ball, the “working class” is hardly the way to ensure American Hegemony. And Gentleman, if you think we have any other real way forward,I am all ears. But from where I sit, Trump proved that American Hegemony is more important than ever before.

In my opinion, we should be able accomplish progressive reform at home and repair our international standung, restoring our relation with EU, etc.

Queequeg said:
Its the white, non-college educated crowd that is the debutante... but they've been around, just got some further taxonomy so maybe they look new? Same Silent Majority, same hard hat rioters, same Populists. I don't think working class is new... they just were organized and energized around the MAGA banner and were heard for all the reasons we've analyzed for the last 4 years.

We can't have American power if we're on the verge of a civil war at home, and that divide is still real and still a problem. Things have been rearranged but give it a few months and we will see the battle lines again. The war is not over. The conservatives have the Supreme Court. They will likely have the senate. We will have a lot of stalemate in Congress and government by Executive fiat. And now we're learning it will be all the usual neo-lib suspects in the executive.

Malcolm wrote:
And you think the conservatives on the court care about the “working class?”

Please.

Queequeg said:
Meanwhile, I'm going to get ready for Trumpism in 2024...

Malcolm wrote:
No, I don’t think so. This only happens if the electorate goes to sleep again.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 25th, 2020 at 8:55 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
None of that means much to me, I don't like endless war, "polite" militarism and austerity.

Malcolm wrote:
Endless war is a GOP thing. Leaders are required to maintain adequate defenses, even Buddha recognized this. Austerity is also a GOP trip.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 25th, 2020 at 7:00 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Bernie's view, which is right on the money:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/24/bernie-sanders-working-class-win-back-from-donald-trump

Queequeg said:
Thanks for that.

There's an article on WAPO, can't get it to link, commenting on Biden filling his cabinet with people who were behind policies that Trump used to get elected - like trade deals that screw American workers. I'm reading through my wife's account so can't get a clean link... but here's the quote that made me yell STFU at my computer screen:
Sullivan, who supported the Obama administration’s TPP trade pact, has since acknowledged that Democrats overlooked the potentially negative consequences of such trade deals on American workers. Trump blamed both his 2016 opponent, Hillary Clinton, and Biden for destroying manufacturing jobs with the NAFTA trade deal.

In a September report, Sullivan underscored how trade deals can drive employers to pull out of U.S. communities and disrupt the livelihoods of people with few available alternatives. Democrats have frequently responded to this problem with federally funded economic-assistance programs, which Sullivan said were often “too little, too late.”
Like, this was what you realized now? What fetid echo chamber was this guy stewing in for the last generation? Bernie was talking about this since the 90s. Unless Biden does massive infrastructure he's not getting re-elected, and Harris has no chance if Biden isn't up for round 2. I can see now he could burn his capital on identity stuff and otherwise go back business and usual for the Aspen Ideas Festival/Davos crowd.

Malcolm wrote:
TPTT would have limited China’s power the sane way NATO curtailed Russia’s. Worrying about union jobs that are noncompetitive  and obsolete just to please the latest political debutante at the ball, the “working class” is hardly the way to ensure American Hegemony. And Gentleman, if you think we have any other real way forward,I am all ears. But from where I sit, Trump proved that American Hegemony is more important than ever before.

In my opinion, we should be able accomplish progressive reform at home and repair our international standung, restoring our relation with EU, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 25th, 2020 at 4:03 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Minobu said:
Up here the news was really up beat about the picks...all news on telly gives these people the good housekeeping seal of approval...

so like why is Bernie and Warren not in the administration...thats just weird..or are their more to come?

Malcolm wrote:
Bernie and Warren both come from states (VT and MA) with Republican governors, who will appoint republican senators to replace them if they leave office.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 25th, 2020 at 3:27 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Queequeg said:
Maybe.

Not expecting a revolution from the guy. Just hoping we change course a little bit, because that neo-lib shit is a bad trip. Better than the spiked kool-aid we were getting the last four years, but...

Malcolm wrote:
He is filling his cabinet with people he has worked with for years, whom he trusts, and who are to the one actually competent at what they do. One thing is for sure, the MAGA trip is death cult, not only because of covid, but because of tariffs etc. Expect to see the TPTT back on the agenda. At least the neoliberal consensus had an actual plan...but then, I AM a globalist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 25th, 2020 at 1:55 AM
Title: weird as...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1331292497495134211?s=20


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 25th, 2020 at 1:40 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Queequeg said:
He's filling his cabinet with the usual neo-liberal suspects.

Malcolm wrote:
He is filling his cabinet with people who will be hard for Moscow Mitch to block, since they have already had senate approval in the past, assuming that GA goes to the Repugs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 24th, 2020 at 5:05 AM
Title: Re: Field
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Hey, guys, this whole thread is off topic.

There is no Mahāyāna sūtra that takes about energy fields or anything like it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 24th, 2020 at 5:03 AM
Title: Re: Im too slow at Ngongdro, help :(
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It's not a race.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 24th, 2020 at 5:00 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
In the case of the Karma Kagyu and HHK, yes I do.

Malcolm wrote:
I accept nothing by fiat. It is not the Buddha's way. Everything must be tested the way goldsmiths test gold. You've got to bite into it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 24th, 2020 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Astus said:
The more pertinent question is if Shentongpas take the works of Maitreya, Asanga, and Vasubandhu as their primary treatises or something else, because if yes, then they are rightly called Yogacarins.

Malcolm wrote:
Not necessarily: that depends on whether or not Dolbupa and co. correctly represent the thought of the Yogacārins. The usual strategy is to try and claim that while the Yogacarin treatises of Maitreya, Asanga and Vasubandhu are a species of Madhyamaka, there is a so-called an inferior cittamatra interpretation of the treatises of Maitreya. However, Karl Brunnhölzl points out, the presentation of Tibetan extrinsic emptiness proponents is quite at odds with what Asanga and Co. actually say.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
But it’s safe to say that what HHK meant—whatever that is—is more authoritative than Brunnhölzl.

Malcolm wrote:
Only if one accepts what religious hierarchs assert as true by mere fiat.

I do however agree with the Karmapa in this respect, and I have said it before: Maitreya wrote treatises covering three distinct trends in Mahāyāna Buddhism: Prajñāpāramita, Yogācāra, and Tathāgatagarbha.  However, it is pretty clear that in his synthesis of these three trends, the Ornament of Mahāyāna Sūtras, that the tathāgatagarbha doctrines takes a serious backseat, as it is mentioned but once, not only in his root text, but also in the commentary by Vasubandhu and Shtiramati.

Then there is the issue of whether the Uttaratantra was even written by Maitreya at all, and whether the commentary of Asanga was actually composed by him as well. And if it is the case that these texts were not written by Maitryea and Asanga (certainly the Chinese reception of these texts cast doubt on this), then the whole edifice the Extrinsic Emptiness proponents erect their arguments upon collapses because it is based on false authorial assumptions. I have already shown elsewhere that the convenient fiction of three turnings was of absolutely no interest to Indians writing on these subjects, and that there is no consensus about this idea among Tibetans.

The fact is that the Yogacarins also took the Prajñāpāramitā sūtras and the Madhyamaka of Nāgārjuna to be definitive—for example, Asanga receives no prediction in the Lanka, only Nāgārjuna—and merely faulted so-called mādhyamikas for being nihilistic. Indeed, one of their most famous scholars, Dharmapāla, wrote a commentary on Āryadeva's 400, not to fault Āryadeva, but to show that mādhyamikas (such as Buddhapalita and Bhavaviveka) were not understanding the father and son Madhyamaka correctly. And of course then we have the example of the 11th century paṇḍita and polymath, Ratnakāraśanti, whose Madhyamakālaṃkāra (referred to by Tibetans as the sems tsam rgyan) tries to reconcile Nagārjuna with Maitreya and Asanga. The colophon of this translation itself contains a rare, vituperative polemic aimed at followers of Candrakīrti.

I should also add, that Candrakīrti spends a fair amount of time trying to correct Yogacāra misunderstandings of their own terminology in such texts as the Introduction to Madhyamaka and its autocommentary.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 24th, 2020 at 12:56 AM
Title: Re: Dissolving Bodies in Water to Help Save the Earth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Dont ever laugh
As a Hearse goes by
For you may be the next to die
They wrap you up
In a big white sheet
From your head down to your feet
They put you in a big black box
And cover you up with dirt and rocks
And all goes well
For about a week
And then your coffin begins to leak
And the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out
The worms play pinochle on your snout
They eat your eyes, they eat your noes
They eat the jelly between your toes
A big green worm with rolling eyes
Crawls in your stomach and out your eyes
Your stomach turns a slimy green
And puss comes out like whipping cream
You spread it on a slice of bread
And thats what you eat when your dead
And the worms crawl out and the worms crawl in
The worms that crawl in are lean and thin
The ones that crawl out are fat and stout
Your eyes fall in and your hair falls out
Your brain comes tumbling down your snout
And the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out
They crawl all over your dirty snout
Your chest caves in and your eyes pop out
Your brain turns to saurkraut
They invite their friends, and their friends too
They all come down to chew on you
And this is what it is to die, i hope you had a nice goodbye
Did you ever think as a Hearse goes by
That you might be the next to die
And your eyes fall out and your teeth decay
And that is the end of a perfect... day


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 23rd, 2020 at 11:07 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Donny said:
The positions of Advaita and Extrinsic Emptiness are structurally similar, in so far as they both posit an utterly real ultimate in which the utterly unreal relative does not exist.
Structurally and as an philosophical argument they are very similar.

Malcolm wrote:
That is the main point. Where they differ is in the posited result: one asserts a sort of intellectual recognition of the unity of all phenomena in an underlying ground; the other asserts merely that all sentient beings possess from the beginning the ultimate qualities of buddhahood, with for a moment suggesting there is some universal underlying ground at all. In this way, we can understand that while there are structural similarities between Advaita and Extrinsic Emptiness, the former is completely nonbuddhist, while the latter is a transitional school between Yogacāra and Madhyamaka in its attempt to reconcile the inner contradiction in the Yogacāra doctrine with Nāgārjuna's Madhyamaka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 23rd, 2020 at 9:58 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Donny said:
I heard from some posters that I do not know what shentong is.other posters have said to me that shentong is no different to Advaita.I don’t know who to believe.
The statement that shentong is not different from Advaita is for sure false.

Malcolm wrote:
The positions of Advaita and Extrinsic Emptiness are structurally similar, in so far as they both posit an utterly real ultimate in which the utterly unreal relative does not exist.

Madhyamaka by contrast, merely argues that relative things are ultimately empty, without suggesting there is some ultimate reality that exists to be established beyond the emptiness of relative entities.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 23rd, 2020 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Interesting paper by Prof. Dorje Wangchuck:

https://www.academia.edu/471582/Wangchuk_2004_The_r%C3%91i%E1%B9%85_ma_Interpretations_of_the_Tath%C4%81gatagarbha_Theory_Wiener_Zeitschrift_f%C3%BCr_die_Kunde_S%C3%BCdasiens_48_pp_171_213_appeared_in_2005_?email_work_card=title


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 23rd, 2020 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
But it’s safe to say that what HHK meant—whatever that is—is more authoritative than Brunnhölzl.

Astus said:
The more pertinent question is if Shentongpas take the works of Maitreya, Asanga, and Vasubandhu as their primary treatises or something else, because if yes, then they are rightly called Yogacarins.

Malcolm wrote:
They, do, but they misinterpret the way the three natures are applied by these masters, try to kludge them onto the two truths (without success), in an attempt to escape the internal contradiction in the three natures as actually presented by the Indian Yogacarin masters, which the latter unable to resolve on their own.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 23rd, 2020 at 10:49 AM
Title: Re: What is Dzogchen?
Content:
KonchogUrgyenNyima said:
I have realized that I actually have no idea.

Malcolm wrote:
Excellent. Now find a proper teacher and ignore answers you might find in the fever swamps of the internet.

florin said:
Indeed. Completely ignored.

Malcolm wrote:
Obviously not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 22nd, 2020 at 11:17 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
There is only one Indian commentary, attributed to Asanga, generally regarded by Tibetans as being composed from the Prasanga Madhyamaka POV.
I believe that one is available in English as “Changeless Nature”, tr. Ken Holmes. I’m not a fan of that one. The ‘commentary’ is just a slightly different wording of the original text. Right?


Malcolm wrote:
No, that’s a translation of the root text.



Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
*******
The first 3 chapters are dedicated to the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha respectively.

The Buddha Nature related chapters start with ch.4

Root verses from Tsadra’s website. Translations available in English, Tibetan, Sanskrit, and Chinese. The English is from Brunnhölzl’s “When Clouds Part”.
https://buddhanature.tsadra.org/index.php/Texts/Ratnagotravibh%C4%81ga_Mah%C4%81y%C4%81nottaratantra%C5%9B%C4%81stra/Root_Verses

It really is worthwhile to spend some time exploring that website.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that website is worthwhile. Doesn’t make Tathagatagarbha transpersonal though.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 22nd, 2020 at 11:09 PM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
Capitalism will let you have your half an hour long meditation session every other day,  plus a week long retreat -- "retreat,"  rather -- in a Thai spa yearly.

Malcolm wrote:
With daily coffee enemas...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 22nd, 2020 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
his lineage will continue as long as I am alive, and beyond, among my students, whether they are recognized by Dzogchen Community or not.

Danny said:
Zangthal will continue Master Norbu’s longsal?

Malcolm wrote:
Don’t chase names. Go to the essence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 22nd, 2020 at 9:29 PM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
fckw said:
Why should a teacher have so many students in the first place that he can no longer follow them all?

Malcolm wrote:
ChNN was one of the most accessible teachers in modern memory. He answered every email, etc., as well as sitting for hours after almost every session to greet students personally until he became too ill. He also taught in a way that was so comprehensive as to anticipate nearly any question a student might have. He is the most important link to authentic Dzogchen teachings on this globe. I am proud to be his student, his lineage will continue as long as I am alive, and beyond, among my students, whether they are recognized by Dzogchen Community or not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 22nd, 2020 at 9:21 PM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Which canonical text - preferebly with a panditas commentary - would be a good place to go deeper into this topic?
There's a couple translations of "The Mahayana Uttaratantra Shastra" that are good. Both are coming from Karma Kagyu sources.

The first is titled "Buddha Nature", Snow Lion, tr. Rosemary Fuchs. It has a commentary by Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Taye.

Malcolm wrote:
This commentary is based almost entirely on the commentary written by the Sakya scholar, Rongton Sheja Kunrik, regarded as an emanation of Maitreya. Library of Tibetan classics is coming out with a collection of commentaries on Uttaratantra from the primrary Tibetan Buddhist traditions.

There is only one Indian commentary, attributed to Asanga, generally regarded by Tibetans  as being composed from the Prasanga Madhyamaka POV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 22nd, 2020 at 10:12 AM
Title: Re: What is Dzogchen?
Content:
KonchogUrgyenNyima said:
I have realized that I actually have no idea.

Malcolm wrote:
Excellent. Now find a proper teacher and ignore answers you might find in the fever swamps of the internet.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 22nd, 2020 at 10:06 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
https://buddhanature.tsadra.org/index.php/Questions

(Underlining mine)

Malcolm wrote:
The red part means it is not transpersonal. All fires are hot. But the heat of this fire is not the heat of that fire.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
That is not what it says. it cannot be said to belong to us as individuals.

Malcolm wrote:
To say something is a characteristic is to say it is a property of a thing, for example, heat and fire. This person’s synopsis is incoherently written.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
It is simply a basic characteristic of having a mind and consciousness,

Malcolm wrote:
Their words, not mine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 22nd, 2020 at 10:01 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
That is not what it says.

Malcolm wrote:
This is not a canonical text, not even a pandita’s opinion; thus is just some person’s rather sloppily written synopsis. As such it does meet the standard for being taken seriously as an assertion that tathagatagarbha is some kind of transpersonal reality, apart from in some ignorant person’s febrile imagination.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 22nd, 2020 at 9:55 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
None of these presentations assert tathagatagarbha is transpersonal.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
https://buddhanature.tsadra.org/index.php/Questions Critics of the theory would say buddha-nature is the same as the self because buddha-nature teachings use positive language to describe an "essence" or an "innate characteristic" of a person. Some who accept buddha-nature argue that they are provisional teachings, that while they do seem to suggest a self, they nevertheless have practical value and, in any case, are not meant to be taken seriously—and there are scriptures to support this position. Others, however, disagree and hold to the buddha-nature teachings as a definitive teaching, and they maintain that in no way is buddha-nature a doctrine of a self. Those who advocate for this view teach that buddha-nature is not a matter of an individual essence; it is instead a universal reality—no one suggests that there are separate buddha-natures in each person. Individuals are subject to dependent origination—our existence comes about through causes and conditions and therefore cannot be said to be truly individually existent. But buddha-nature is not conditioned. It is simply a basic characteristic of having a mind and consciousness, and for this reason it cannot be said to belong to us as individuals. It is more like air—we all have it in our lungs, but it is not our own individual air.
(Underlining mine)

Malcolm wrote:
The red part means it is not transpersonal. All fires are hot. But the heat of this fire is not the heat of that fire.

The rest of this person’s sentence is incoherent and contradicts the part outlined in red.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 22nd, 2020 at 6:07 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Here’s a link to Tsadra Foundation’s website dedicated to the various interpretations of Buddha Nature:

https://buddhanature.tsadra.org/index.php/Explore
It doesn’t promote a single view, but gives a gamut of perspectives.

Malcolm wrote:
None of these presentations assert tathagatagarbha is transpersonal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 22nd, 2020 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: How is shentong different from tirthika doctrine
Content:


Artziebetter1 said:
Does shentong believe in a trans personal ground of being that is permanently enduring?and has Buddha qualities ?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope.  Buddha-nature is personal, not transpersonal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 21st, 2020 at 8:13 PM
Title: Re: So your brother went down the Qanon hole...
Content:



kirtu said:
The attraction of this cult is beyond comprehension and indicates very serious problems with people being able to analyze information and engage in serious thought in the US.

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
And Germany, where it is becoming very popular amongst the anti-masker/antivaxxer crowd.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 19th, 2020 at 8:32 AM
Title: Re: Narak Kong shak
Content:
cjdevries said:
Does one need an empowerment in order to recite the Narak Kong Shak?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 19th, 2020 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:


kirtu said:
So his terma and practices revealed in his dreams are lost as a practice beyond the current people to whom they were given.

Malcolm wrote:
We will see.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 18th, 2020 at 10:25 PM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
On the other hand, I dint think even ChNN anticipated that the DC was going to stop dead in its tracks.

kirtu said:
So sad to hear.  Nonetheless this was clearly foreshadowed.

You and others can do nothing to salvage the situation?  You have already said that in terms of transmission the fundamental empowerments are available through other teachers.  Perhaps organizing retreats to keep the practice alive and vital?

Malcolm wrote:
With SMS thus is true, not for Longsal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 18th, 2020 at 6:33 PM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
It certainly does not help in the least when regular members are told that they are samaya-bound or otherwise morally obliged to keep paying the fee till they drop dead or the world ends.

PeterC said:
I've never heard that from the DC - it sounds like you have?  If I had, I would be out of it tomorrow, and would find other ways to support ChNNr's work instead.  It's not about the money, I don't care about the money, you just can't have sanghas saying things like that.  Now ChNNr did ask explicitly that everyone become a member of the DC, that was clearly his intent, but you've got to draw a line somewhere: if necessary I would find another way to fulfill that obligation.

Malcolm wrote:
SMS people have a samaya to support the DC, regular members do not. On the other hand, I dint think even ChNN anticipated that the DC was going to stop dead in its tracks. So, as far as I am concerned all bets are off. That said, I will continue to pay my dues for now.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 16th, 2020 at 4:32 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:



PadmaVonSamba said:
Maybe it possible that there is still a direct linear link to Namkai Norbu’s own teacher, via other teachers? In other words, maybe you have some dharma cousins you don’t know about, and the teachings and transmissions can continue.

Malcolm wrote:
This issue here is his own teaching cycle, called Longsal Khandro Nyinthik. He did not leave an heir apparent for this cycle of teachings who is interested in passing that cycle on. This does not mean that these teachings will not be passed on, however.

Everything else is available from other teachers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 16th, 2020 at 4:05 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
Rasputin said:
I understand no lineage holder succeeds Namkhai Norbu. That means noone will be initiated into Rinpoche's teachings anymore, no Song of the Vajra, no Ganapuja, no nothing.

Tilopa said:
It seems his son is giving transmission to new students

https://www.tsegyalgar.org/tsegyalgar-east/newsletters/transmission-with-yeshi-silvano-namkhai/

Malcolm wrote:
That was cancelled.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 16th, 2020 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
Danny said:
Then we wouldn’t be transmitting his lineage, we would be transmitting our own lineage.
Does that make any sense?

Malcolm wrote:
No, since all of ChNN's teachings come from someone else.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 15th, 2020 at 8:31 PM
Title: Re: Setrap and Padmasambhava
Content:
Toenail said:
Hey,

I wonder about the connection of Setrap with Guru Rinpoche. There is the story of Setrap sewing Padmasambhavas shoe on his head etc, I wonder where this story comes from... It does not seem likely to be a story from a geluk source etc. Any info on their relationship or sources etc is appreciated.

TN

Malcolm wrote:
Setrap is sarma era protector. Gyalpo class.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 14th, 2020 at 6:32 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:


Sādhaka said:
Then again, maybe you guys have access to info from a inner-circle that I don’t have access to....

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, it’s called “newspapers of record,” where real journalism is practiced, rather than the fever swamps of the internet, from which arises pestilences like the alt-right and it’s red-headed stepchild, Qanon.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 14th, 2020 at 8:27 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:


Sādhaka said:
I’ve seen the Koch bros. come up a couple times today.

Are Koch’s really into Ron Paul’s Austrian economics?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes


Sādhaka said:
Or are they into keynesian neoconservatism like Bush & co....?

Malcolm wrote:
No.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 14th, 2020 at 8:25 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Libertarianism and democracy are mutually exclusive. Libertarians deliberately undermine democracy at every turn because they do not actually accept rule by the people, they have no respect for the principles of self-government under which one understands a democracy to function.


Sādhaka said:
“Under which one understands”....

But isn’t libertarianism the epitome of self-governance (ideally that is, as not many actually follow the ideas they claim to follow), whereas democracy would be mob-rule?

Malcolm wrote:
Libertarians understand the self-governance of the polis to be a limitation on their individual liberty. Hence they oppose democracy at every turn.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 14th, 2020 at 12:43 AM
Title: Re: The Two Truths Debate - Poll & Discussion
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
...

Manjushri said:
Thank you for the comprehensive answer Malcolm, that was very clear and informative. If I may ask, do you lean more towards understanding conventional truth perhaps simply as a pedagogical device to direct oneself and help cognize ultimate reality, or do you view it as mutually interdependent with ultimate truth and therefore equally valid? Or maybe you have an altogether different perspective? If you prefer not to answer that's fine, I merely thought that perhaps having presented different looks from various users would help other people comprehend the rich interpretational tradition of the issue.

Malcolm wrote:
I follow the approach of Sakya Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen, who wrote:

The moon in the water is not the moon in the sky, 
but without the moon there is no reflection; 
similarly, the nature of all things
is taught as the two truths. 

There are no dharmas 
not included in the two truths.
Because the nature is not true and not false, 
grasping to the two truths is deluded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 13th, 2020 at 10:14 PM
Title: Re: The Two Truths Debate - Poll & Discussion
Content:
avatamsaka3 said:
So what is your understanding of the difference between the two perspectives?

Manjushri said:
As I mentioned in the first post, I'm at an early stage of exploring Tibetan Buddhism, therefore I cannot claim fluency and extensive knowledge on the subject, at all. Still, I think Sonam Thakchoe's book does a very good job at making the issue understandable to a degree for laymen's minds.

...

In a resumed way, for Tsongkhapa, enlightenment implies recognizing the validity of empirical truths, since the knowledge in which enlightenment is based requires empirical grounding, given their interrelated condition. Gorampa on the other hand refuses to accept it and proclaims that wisdom is only attained by getting rid altogether of the empirical truths and senses.

Malcolm wrote:
Part of the difference between the two is the tradition of tshad ma each master followed. Tsongkhapa followed the epistemological school of Sangphu founded by Phyapa with its complicated system of blo rigs; Gorampa followed Sapan, who rejected the former system in its entirety in his Treasury of Authority (tshad ma rigs gter). Sapan further asserted that Buddhist epistemology was of no value in liberation.

The fundamental difference between Tsongkhapa and Gorampa boils down to simple difference of opinion over whether or not one is to give precedence to the object of cognition or the cognition. Chandrakirti remarks that all dharmas bear two natures, one ultimate and one relative. He then goes on to say that relative truths are objects of mistaken cognitions; while ultimate truths are objects of veridical cognitions. The Gelukpas stress the former, that is the object; the Sakyapas stress the former, the cognition. When it comes to faithfulness to the Indian treatises, Gorampa wins hands down, IMO. The vast majority of Gorampa's arguments concern how Tsongkhapa is overriding, through reasonings, the plain intent of the Indian masters—indeed, at one point, Gorampa basically faults Tsongkhapa for over-finessing many points needlessly. But of course, it is just this finesse that Geluks celebrate in Tsongkhapa's writings.

I encourage you to study the Indian masters before getting wrapped up in Tibetan polemics about Madhyamaka. Then, once you have gained complete familiarity with the Indian masters, then return to the Tibetan masters and see with whom you agree.

Also, Thakchoe is a Gelukpa, his sentiments are plainly polemical and he does not really read Gorampa objectively. Gendun Chophel's presentation of Madhyamaka in Madman's Middle Way is far more objective.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 13th, 2020 at 10:03 PM
Title: Re: The Two Truths Debate - Poll & Discussion
Content:


Ayu said:
What nobody seems to know: Tsongkhapa didn't explain emptiness on an intellectual cognitive level.

Malcolm wrote:
Not exactly. He devoted many pages to explaining emptiness on an intellectual level. His writing on emptiness is not confined to Lam rim chen mo.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 12th, 2020 at 10:09 AM
Title: Re: Cults
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
Thank you for the correction. This is valuable information.
May I ask, is this a mostly "universal" Vajrayana outlook? Or does it vary by sect to some extent? Because I have read a lot suggesting more literal and strict devotion to one's personal, human guru.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a universal outlook.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 12th, 2020 at 7:33 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I am talking about the people with the money and influence, the Kochs, etc., and yes, so-called conservatism in the GOP today is basically libertarianism,  basically rehashed Bircherism. If you think the libertarian trend in conservative circles is accidental, well, libertarianism is the doctrine of Calhoun and other pro-slavery people.

Queequeg said:
I wasn't talking about them. They're not Trumpists. And they're not a significant portion of the population. They have outsized influence because they can buy mouthpieces and bull horns, but their votes don't move the needle.

Malcolm wrote:
They influence the needle because of how they condition people to vote.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 12th, 2020 at 5:52 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Queequeg said:
The people I have in mind are the Trumpists who show up to those rallies. I think you're giving them too much credit when you attribute some articulable ideology to what they're doing. They're not libertarians, except that maybe they subscribe to Ron Paul's gold bug newsletter.

Malcolm wrote:
I am talking about the people with the money and influence, the Kochs, etc., and yes, so-called conservatism in the GOP today is basically libertarianism,  basically rehashed Bircherism. If you think the libertarian trend in conservative circles is accidental, well, libertarianism is the doctrine of Calhoun and other pro-slavery people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 12th, 2020 at 3:10 AM
Title: Re: Cults
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
Another "issue" with this factor is that if you practice Vajrayana Buddhism, Guru Yoga is part of the package. Guru Yoga is very focused on total devotionalism to the Guru, who one is supposed to view as a Buddha and a basically perfected being.

Malcolm wrote:
As a long time Vajrayāna practitioner, I have to tell you this is something of a misconception. It is understood in Vajrayāna that we are not able to see our teachers this way, and so we visualize that Vajradhara, or Guru RInpoche, etc. as our guru. The rest of the time, we try to maintain as pure a view of our guru as we can, understand the flaws we see to be impure vision. But keep in mind, as a Vajrayāna practitioner, we are also supposed to have a pure view of all sentient beings, not only our teacher.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 12th, 2020 at 3:02 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:


Queequeg said:
The acute problem we presently have is that a large segment of the population apparently doesn't even wants to have a democracy - even as they wrap themselves in flags and use words like "freedom".

Malcolm wrote:
Libertarianism and democracy are mutually exclusive. Libertarians deliberately undermine democracy at every turn because they do not actually accept rule by the people, they have no respect for the principles of self-government under which one understands a democracy to function.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 12th, 2020 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
But the only-vaguely-unofficial State Religion of America is Constitutionalism and Constitutional Fundamentalism with a Christian varnish.

"Yeah, but what nonsense did they intend?"

Likely that women wouldn't vote and their democracy would be restricted to ethnic preferables, much like Ancient Greek democracy.

Constitutionalists won't give that up without a long fight. The South can't even admit they lost a war. Trump can't admit he lost an election. There are people who would never acknowledge the new constitution even if there were a purely democratic process underpinning it, even if they got to participate in that process itself.

It's holy writ. Eight out of ten American Christian cats agree that it is "divinely inspired."

Malcolm wrote:
It’s still needs to be rewritten.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 11th, 2020 at 9:23 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
PeterC said:
RBG said, not many years back, that the US constitution isn't a great example to look to if you're trying to write a new constitution now.  Completely correct statement: it's a complex and unwieldy contraption distorted by decades of aggressive interpretation and held together by flaky precedents. She was of course attacked extensively because of it.

Queequeg said:
It is the oldest living democratic constitution. Written by men who had letters sent by horseback and boat, and had to make their own clothes.

No one buying a new car would look into the Model T.

The problem is, we are barely held together by this constitution. Resetting would likely result in strife, dissolution. We'll keep this thing together with duct tape and gum for as long as possible.

Malcolm wrote:
Time for a rewrite.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 11th, 2020 at 6:38 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:



Danny said:
When you say depends, your referring to the appearance of compassion as openness and the eight gates of spontaneous presence?' The gate of manifesting as compassion, as lights, as kayas, as wisdom, as nonduality, as freedom from extremes, as the impure gate of samsara and as the pure gate of wisdom?
A non-duality duality.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the difference is whether merit is dedicated free of the three spheres or not. The former merit is imperishable, the latter is perishable..

Danny said:
That’s interesting, I thought there was no such divisions radiating out of the rupakaya.

Malcolm wrote:
Merit is just good karma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 11th, 2020 at 12:39 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Hm, more rioting at any rate, likely worse than a few months ago at least.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it would perish. Maybe not all at once, but it would not survive this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 11:46 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Sādhaka said:
It sounds like he’s implying that the constitution is a threat to democracy.... And it would be, I suppose, if we live under a constitutional republic rather than a “democracy”.

Malcolm wrote:
If the GOP tries to pull this stunt, having lost both the electoral college AND the popular vote, this country will perish in the ensuing conflict. The only time in recent history where this chain of events was even a true remote possibility was in 2000, when Bush "won" by 500 votes, and the Supreme Court engaged in deliberate vote suppression.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 8:40 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:



Danny said:
But not the accumulation and dispersement of merit, which can also manifest as material phenomena.

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on the type of merit. Most merit is quite perishable. Merit is just positive karma.

Danny said:
When you say depends, your referring to the appearance of compassion as openness and the eight gates of spontaneous presence?' The gate of manifesting as compassion, as lights, as kayas, as wisdom, as nonduality, as freedom from extremes, as the impure gate of samsara and as the pure gate of wisdom?
A non-duality duality.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the difference is whether merit is dedicated free of the three spheres or not. The former merit is imperishable, the latter is perishable..


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 10:28 AM
Title: Re: alaya vs. alaya vijnana
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
BTW, what translations exist of the Yogacarabhumi, and which is recommended?

Malcolm wrote:
There is only one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 9:48 AM
Title: Re: alaya vs. alaya vijnana
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
So Malcolm-La, do discursive thoughts (not sense activity) count as "part" alaya, or is alaya a neutral state free of thought?

So if we take the Lojong instruction for example, my understanding is that this is essentially an instruction on shamatha without a sign, and does not refer to the general concept of Alaya-Vijnana.

Malcolm wrote:
It is strictly a neutral state free of concepts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 9:47 AM
Title: Re: alaya vs. alaya vijnana
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Excuse my ignorance but isn't the word "alaya" part of the word "alaya vijnana" (i.e., "storehouse" and "storehouse-consciousness," respectively?) This suggests a grammatical relationship of modification rather than opposition, at least to my ignorant, braying common-sense-stunted way of reading.

After some frustrated googling I can't find anything suggesting the use of the word "alaya" in opposition to "alaya vijnana". Of course I am not a Yogacara scholar, much to my chagrin, so perhaps one of you could clear up for this yokel (me) how "x" and "x+y" are in a "versus" relationship.

Your kind efforts to assuage my mulish, dullwitted ineptitude would be most humbly appreciated.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, you can read the bodhisattvabhumi for starters, where this distinction is made.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 8:53 AM
Title: Re: Dissolution of the elements
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
Earth, water, fire, and air are terms used to describe the dissolution of the body towards the time of death.
I’m curious about whether the “fire” element is even regarded as part of the composition of cold-blooded animals such as reptiles, fish, and amphibians.
Any thoughts on this?

Malcolm wrote:
Metabolism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 8:08 AM
Title: Re: alaya vs. alaya vijnana
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Can some kind person point out the precise distinction here, and perhaps give a reading suggestion? I think I understand the basics, but would like to understand this question a bit better.

Malcolm wrote:
The alaya is free of sense contact; the alayavijnana possesses sense contact. That’s the difference. It can be found in Bodhisattvabhumi.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 2:11 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Queequeg said:
That's not a right, let alone a constitutional right. I get what you're saying, but that's not the right terminology. Rights, in the legal sense, are very specific privileges.

Bundokji said:
I agree, and for those who do not act in good faith, its more a sense of entitlement than anything else.

Malcolm wrote:
Trump has no reason to expect anyone will treat him with good faith. He has never treated anyone with good faith in his entire life. That being said, he is being treated with good faith in its entirety. Clinton did not contest the election and so on. Trump was given an opportunity to show he was a competent executive for four years. He failed, and he was voted out of office. All your whinging does nothing to change this fact.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 1:02 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No, there are no similarities. The Democrats (and the GOP) have constitutional right to rig their own primary. Bernie's case was thrown out.

Bundokji said:
Having constitutional right to rig is not acting in good faith.

Queequeg said:
I'm not familiar with that right.

Malcolm wrote:
The Dems can rig their own nominating process however they like. So can the GOP. Donna Brazil and co. rigged the convention against the Bern in 2016. Old history, but it did not happen in 2020. Bernie lost to Biden fair and square.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 1:00 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No, there are no similarities. The Democrats (and the GOP) have constitutional right to rig their own primary. Bernie's case was thrown out.

Bundokji said:
Having constitutional right to rig is not acting in good faith.

Malcolm wrote:
Bernie was not and has never been a Democrat. This time there were no shenanigans like 2016. Bernie lost fair and square. The Democrats chose Biden.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Bundokji said:
I think Trump genuinely believes that this election has been rigged against him.

Malcolm wrote:
No he doesn't. Whatever Trump accuses someone of doing is something that he is doing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 12:32 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Dan74 said:
It was just not clear what precisely was the issue of contention.

Malcolm wrote:
The issue of contention was that Trump was losing. Now he has lost. Apparently, at 3:00 PM today he is going to announce that Bill Maher is was right, and that he is not leaving, no matter what, if the following tweet is to be believed:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 12:06 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Queequeg said:
There has been no evidence presented of fraud or that anything else shady happened with the election. If there was, you can bet Trump would be exploiting it. Instead, the best his henchman, Guiliani, has been able to do so far is have a press conference in front of a dildo store.

No, Trump is gearing up to undermine the entire government by sowing doubt about the election with bald lies. He doesn't care about the courts unless they enable him. If they don't, his plan is to bypass them.

This man is not playing by the rules. He is undermining the rules at every turn.

Bundokji said:
You are technically correct, but when playing by the rules does not always convey honesty, things get more complicated.

Take how Bernie was treated in 2016 and during the primaries. They played by the rules, but to their own advantage caring less about what average people aspire to. The way they ganged up against Bernie has similarities with what is happening with Trump now.

Malcolm wrote:
No, there are no similarities. The Democrats (and the GOP) have constitutional right to rig their own primary. Bernie's case was thrown out.


Bundokji said:
Bernie on the other hand is too decent to become a leader which is the irony of destiny.

Malcolm wrote:
I am a Berniecrat. Bernie wanted us all to vote for Biden. So we did. Bernie wanted to be the Dem nominee in 2020, very much so. And he THE leader of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party.


Bundokji said:
So, there are other factors plays in Trump's favor, or at least, makes his claims more believable among his supporters.

Malcolm wrote:
Trump supporters will believe anything he says, whether the claims are believable or not. Under what rock have you been living for the past four years?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 10th, 2020 at 12:00 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Dan74 said:
The one concrete thing I have heard of was denial of access. I've read that it was not an outright denial, but an argument over how close of an access one should have. Does anyone have more detail on that?

Malcolm wrote:
Trumpsters were upset they were told they had to stand 20 feet a way, cause of covid. When they complained and the courts sided with them, they started to gum up the works by challenging every mail in ballot once they were allowed to stand 6 feet away.

Dan74 said:
20 feet seems like a lot of social distancing. Why 20 feet exactly? I though the commonly advised distance was 1.5m or 5 feet.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, the main point is that poll watchers are just there to watch. They can watch ballots being opened and processed from 20 feet away:
The dispute has been over how close observers can get to the canvassing proceedings, not whether observers are allowed to be present. Initially, a trial court denied the Trump campaign’s request for closer observation in Philadelphia, finding on Nov. 3 that by the campaign’s own admission, it had been given the opportunity to observe “the opening and sorting of ballots.”

The next day, a state court reversed that ruling, allowing observers within 6 feet, “while adhering to all COVID-19 protocols, including, wearing masks and maintaining social distancing.” Philadelphia’s election board then appealed the ruling to the state Supreme Court, saying that it had complied with the law and that closer inspection “jeopardizes both the safety of the City Defendants’ canvass, plus the privacy of voters.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 9th, 2020 at 11:36 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Dan74 said:
The one concrete thing I have heard of was denial of access. I've read that it was not an outright denial, but an argument over how close of an access one should have. Does anyone have more detail on that?

Malcolm wrote:
Trumpsters were upset they were told they had to stand 20 feet a way, cause of covid. When they complained and the courts sided with them, they started to gum up the works by challenging every mail in ballot once they were allowed to stand 6 feet away.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 9th, 2020 at 8:40 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
"Fascism" has become a notoriously vague and loaded term for "Generally bad authoritarian right-wing stuff."

Malcolm wrote:
Wallace, who was FDR’s right hand man during our struggle with fascism in Europe, presciently wrote:

The obvious types of American fascists are dealt with on the air and in the press. These demagogues and stooges are fronts for others. Dangerous as these people may be, they are not so significant as thousands of other people who have never been mentioned. The really dangerous American fascists are not those who are hooked up directly or indirectly with the Axis. The FBI has its finger on those. The dangerous American fascist is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power.

If we define an American fascist as one who in case of conflict puts money and power ahead of human beings, then there are undoubtedly several million fascists in the United States. There are probably several hundred thousand if we narrow the definition to

include only those who in their search for money and power are ruthless and deceitful. Most American fascists are enthusiastically supporting the war effort. They are doing this even in those cases where they hope to have profitable connections with German chemical firms after the war ends. They are patriotic in time of war because it is to their interest to be so, but in time of peace they follow power and the dollar wherever they may lead.

American fascism will not be really dangerous until there is a purposeful coalition among the cartelists, the deliberate poisoners of public information, and those who stand for the K.K.K. type of demagoguery.
https://www.cbsd.org/cms/lib/PA01916442/Centricity/Domain/1864/Henry%20Wallace_The%20Danger%20of%20American%20Fascism.pdf

Any questions?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 9th, 2020 at 8:34 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:


amanitamusc said:
Sadly even when he\she mentions anything Buddhist it is from some books read and not her/his teachers.Another book Buddhist?

PeterC said:
Sounds like he/she would be more at home on DWE.

Malcolm wrote:
Chances are he/she/they is already there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 9th, 2020 at 1:52 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Bundokji said:
elections results are currently disputed and what we have is media projection of Joe Biden as the next president.

Malcolm wrote:
No, they are not. Even Melania is telling Trump it’s time to go home. 10 of Trump’s lawsuits were tossed out this weekend. The rest is just stalling and trying to save face. He’s done. The people have spoken, and apart from sullen losers, the people were dancing in the streets yesterday and there was celebration around the world.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 9th, 2020 at 1:48 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I am going to be honest with you though that i fail to see the added value of emphasizing that Trump is a fascist even if i grant you the accuracy of the description based on faith in your knowledge.
I used to be one of the people who wanted to hold off on the "fascist" label,

Malcolm wrote:
And you will recall, I applied it immediately, and not because Trump,was a “Republican.” There used to be Republicans who weren’t fascists, but they’ve become rare.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 9th, 2020 at 1:44 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
That’s Pascal’s Wager, nothing to do with Jung.

Bundokji said:
This what i was referring to:
The idea of God is an absolutely necessary psychological function of an irrational nature, which has nothing whatever to do with the question of God's existence. The human intellect can never answer this question, still less give any proof of God. Moreover such proof is superfluous, for the idea of an all-powerful divine Being is present everywhere, unconsciously if not consciously, because it is an archetype. There is in the psyche some superior power, and if it is not consciously a god, it is the "belly" at least, in St Paul's words. I therefore consider it wiser to acknowledge the idea of God consciously; for, if we do not, something else is made God, usually something quite inappropriate and stupid such as only an "enlightened" intellect could hatch forth.
/

Malcolm wrote:
I see. So Jung accepted Pascal’s wager. Not surprising, he was t very bright.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 9th, 2020 at 10:26 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:


Bundokji said:
You brought fascism into all of this, not me.

Malcolm wrote:
Fascism has been central to the discussion concerning Trump on thus forum since 2015. Trump is a fascist. Since you assert you don’t frequent this forum much, you should be more aware of the history of the discussion you’ve inserted yourself into.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 9th, 2020 at 10:23 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:


Bundokji said:
I tend to agree with Carl Jung when he said something in the lines of: its better to act as if God exists, otherwise, something more sinister will take its place.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s Pascal’s Wager, nothing to do with Jung.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 9th, 2020 at 6:29 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:


Bundokji said:
The example i provided is claims i saw on the forum when Trump caught COVID, while in other cases, such news are met with more sympathy.

Malcolm wrote:
Trump contracted covid because he is an idiot, no karmavipaka involved.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 8th, 2020 at 9:11 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Brunelleschi said:
There is little to no data to support this. More minorities voted for Trump than in the 2016 election and the overlap between the different political parties is larger than ever (see attached images). Furthermore, America is currently engaged in seven (7) different wars.

Malcolm wrote:
Most of minorities that support trump do so because of the abortion issue. This is actually the key wedge issue in American politics used as the proxy issue for all other disagreements.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 8th, 2020 at 7:42 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
shaunc said:
I've always wondered why the slaves are concerned about who owns the plantation.
Do you honestly believe that the new fella is the great white hope that's going to lead the western world to the promised land.

Malcolm wrote:
No, but he is 1) a competent executive 2) has Obama on speed dial 3) possesses empathy 4) and actually knows how to run a government. These four factors are lacking in the clown who is in the process of being evicted by the people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 8th, 2020 at 11:11 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:


PeterC said:
We’ve won a small battle.  We are still losing the war.

Malcolm wrote:
No, because Abhrams is in GA, and we will flip the senate come Jan 5th.

And with that, we can pack SCOTUS.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 8th, 2020 at 8:01 AM
Title: Re: Online Sakya Guru
Content:
Dharmalight889 said:
Does anyone know of any online Sakya teachers? I have been interested in learning more and practicing in the lineage, although there are no centers near me. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Malcolm wrote:
Khenpo Migmar, Sakya Cebter, Cambridge, Ma.

http://www.sakya.net

Dharmalight889 said:
I checked this website link and it seems that his classes are in person except the online courses he offers over various subjects. Do you know if he holds weekly classes online or were you suggesting the online course options?

Malcolm wrote:
I suggest you get on his mailing list.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 8th, 2020 at 7:55 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:


Mantrik said:
Whatever you think of Trump he is entitled to his day in court.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, when he is indicted on charges of tax evasion, money laundering, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 8th, 2020 at 3:08 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Norwegian said:
Trump camp, with Giuliani and the other maggots, are naturally enough claiming it is not over.

Brunelleschi said:
Are you even American?

Queequeg said:
Well, you don't have to be American to recognize despicable human character.

That said, folks, let's keep it civil. If there is anything that Biden's victory stands for, its a rejection of the inflammatory rhetoric of the last four years.

I'll take that medicine now, too.

Malcolm wrote:
Even so, Trump is still a whiny little bitch.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 7th, 2020 at 7:54 PM
Title: Re: Online Sakya Guru
Content:
Dharmalight889 said:
Does anyone know of any online Sakya teachers? I have been interested in learning more and practicing in the lineage, although there are no centers near me. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Malcolm wrote:
Khenpo Migmar, Sakya Cebter, Cambridge, Ma.

http://www.sakya.net


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 7th, 2020 at 9:45 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:



Johnny Dangerous said:
A lot of that depends on where you live. I mean, there are places here that have always been like that. When I lived in Tulsa, OK as a teen for a bit I got accused of participation in Satanic Rituals for having a mohawk. Part of my concern is having family in public service, which already makes us a little heightened in terms of awareness about security, etc.

tobes said:
Just be careful! Stay concerned. Things will probably settle after a while.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I live in a super liberal place now. Probably as safe an area as you could ask for in this time, for which I feel seriously fortunate right now.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s awesome being in the coastal “elite.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 7th, 2020 at 7:50 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Michigan, actually.

Queequeg said:
That's not a civil war. That's an idiot with a gun.

Malcolm wrote:
All civil wars start with one idiot with a gun. Case in point: Fort Sumter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 7th, 2020 at 7:49 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
DNS said:
We don't know yet, where this is going; it could be a judicial decision.

Malcolm wrote:
Unlikely. Biden beat Trump in PA. Game over.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 7th, 2020 at 6:33 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:


Artziebetter1 said:
No,Malcolm.what I described is Advaita shaivism.buddhi is a creation of absolute awareness and not a existing substance separate from that reality like Vedanta asserts,which this isn’t a true Advaita.this is basic abhonavagupta.

Malcolm wrote:
You should learn to read more carefully.

My point still remains the same however. Whether you want to go with the 25 tattvas of Samkhya, or the 36 Tattvas of Shaivism matters very little.

Your understanding of Mipham is quite distorted (Mipham is a Madhyamaka author), and your understanding of Buddhism is also quite mistaken.

You are basically wasting everyone's time here, including your own.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 7th, 2020 at 5:54 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
明安 Myoan said:
Well, emerging from my hermit hut to say I think we're witnessing the US tilting into fascism, the situation being what it is with the RNC, the newly conservative Supreme Court, and a GOP thus far unwilling to disadvantage themselves by opposing Trump's wishes.

I hope I'm mistaken, and good luck to everybody.

Malcolm wrote:
Trump is out.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 7th, 2020 at 3:18 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:



Artziebetter1 said:
Vijnaptimatrata is not a conventional self no because it is absolute and is not the physical buddhi mind...

Malcolm wrote:
This is Samkhya. There is no purusha in Buddhism. The Samkhya/Yoga criicism of Buddhism is that we mistake resting in sattva guna for liberation, and never transcend prakṛti.

Advaita lagely concurs, but they reject the Samkhya notion that there are infinite purushas. For them, there is only one: brahman.

But in Buddhadharma we do not utilize this model of the 25 tattvas, with buddhi on down being material and insentient. There is no such concept in Buddhadharma.

Further, vijnāptimatra means "designation only." You are mistaking vijñāpti for vijñāna. From Edgerton:
vijñapti

vijñapti [Cologne record ID=13753] [Printed book page 485,2]
vijñapti , f. (in Skt. generally from an inferior to a
superior, implying a request; Pali viññatti), (1) procla-
mation, announcement, making known (a mg. found also
in Skt.): Mvy 1887 = Tib. rnam par rig byed (wrongly
pw 7.374); abhāvasamudgata-°ti-śabdo niścarati Samādh
8.11, the sound of proclaiming (all things as) arisen from
non-becoming came forth; svapnopama-°tim Gv 82.19, and
many like cpds. in the foll.; (divyaśrotra-)°ti- Gv 251.10,
announcement of (the gift, or faculty, of) supernatural
power of hearing; Mv i.311.6, possibly request, see s.v.
prajñapti 3; (2) in Laṅk, relative, exoteric knowledge, =
vijñāna in this mg. and prajñapti 4, q.v.: e.g. Laṅk
270.1 lokaṃ °ti-mātraṃ; 274.10 °ti-mātraṃ tribhavam;
269.12, see gotra (4); see Suzuki, Studies, 440.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 7th, 2020 at 3:09 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Just watch what it turns into once Trump is no longer encumbered by political office....either he flames out entirely or becomes some truly scary focal point of far right organization. Or, maybe he tries to build up and run in 2024, I don't know.

Ayu said:
Probably I'm naive, but I really thought he'll go to jail once he is no longer protected by the state of being president.

Malcolm wrote:
he will at least be indicted for money laundering and tax evasion, he is being investigated by the Scottish government on that score; he is in deep trouble and so is his whole organization.

it is possible he could wind up being tried and convicted. Something I would very much like to see.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 7th, 2020 at 12:41 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It’s 1860. Don’t forget that. The second Civil War started today.

Queequeg said:
People keep saying things like this. I guess it starts in Georgia this time?

Malcolm wrote:
Michigan, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 7th, 2020 at 12:11 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 7th, 2020 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 6th, 2020 at 11:26 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Fast forward to 15:12. These people are so f#$king crazy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 6th, 2020 at 10:20 PM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
Anyway,I think by applying mipham’s arguments against production to subtle mind,you can believe in a permanent

Malcolm wrote:
The cittasamtana is a series of partless moments supported on conditions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 6th, 2020 at 9:59 PM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:


Artziebetter1 said:
I understand kshanabhangavada to say that the cause must be destroyed before it’s effects can arise.thats atleast classical Theravada .

The other option is production from other wich also cannot occur.

Malcolm wrote:
This objection only applies to moments with parts: arising, abiding, and perishing. Partless moments cannot be critiqued by such an analysis, they cannot even be refuted by Madhyamaka analysis. They are not an ultimate of freedom from extremes, but they are a conventional ultimate of analytical reduction.

Further, in Madhyamaka, causes and effects are understood to be neither the same nor different, for example, milk and curd,  and causation by a single cause is also rejected.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 6th, 2020 at 9:50 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It’s 1860. Don’t forget that. The second Civil War started today.

Queequeg said:
People keep saying things like this. I guess it starts in Georgia this time?

Malcolm wrote:
Michigan, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 6th, 2020 at 9:39 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
a deranged scooby do villian

Queequeg said:
I realize that was a technical description, but if I was drinking coffee, I would have spit it out of my nose.

That's on a personal level. On a larger political level I think that we have to figure out a message that mitigates the numbers of people that jump headfirst into Trumpism..what form that would take I have no idea. Social media has weaponized a kind of corrosive idiocy that used to be confined to late night talk radio....what little capability existed for critical thought before, the landscape of today so discourages it, it's so much easier for people to go to some really dark places.
Losing this election will hopefully snap the ones who can be saved out of their derangement. The rest, the whackos, will eventually go back to living in their parents' basement, and then we can return to our regular eruptions of mass violence like isotopes shooting out of decaying uranium. Notice we haven't had any for a while? The psychos are tuned into the show. But its just time before they start sublimating that antisocial brain damage against fellow human beings again.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s 1860. Don’t forget that. The second Civil War started today.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 6th, 2020 at 9:59 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:


Dan74 said:
I get the US exceptionalism

Malcolm wrote:
It’s bullshit. Our heritage is 500 years of genocide and 400 years of slavery.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 6th, 2020 at 6:34 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
Thanks.maybe Hinduism suits my beliefs best and I am not suited to Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I think this is a fair statement.

The view of Buddhism is dependent origination. This is not compatible with any theory of first causation.

Artziebetter1 said:
I think I should just stick with shaivism as madhyamika and kshanabhangavada seem false to me and I doubt I will ever get it.I had misunderstood shentong,though I understand madhyamika and Theravada dharma pretty well.

Malcolm wrote:
As I said, you have a priori intellectual assumptions that cause you to misunderstand Buddhadharma. Simply put, your view is wholly eternalist and realist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 6th, 2020 at 6:32 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Dan74 said:
Some years back a US colleague from Maine told me how after school he went for one of those long road trips across the country which shattered his stereotypes of those "flyover country" places.

It seems that we get ever more locked into our echo-chambers, increasingly resistant to voices that sound different. Maybe this is something to look at rather than the incredible diversity we share?

An interesting practice I've found has been to deliberately go and interact with people who have very different views to mine. I spent some time with Patriot Prayer folks on their FB page, as Malcolm knows. Some of my old friends hold very strong opinions on issues and I regularly walk away from discussions with them online, because they start to get personal. Long way from mastering this! But I guess learning to see diversity, a different view as something fascinating rather than threatening, a different way of seeing things that can expand out horizons, has something going for it, IMO.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, oh edge lord. Easy to do since you don’t have a burgeoning fascist movement complete anti-Semitic tropes rewritten into a bizarre conspiracy theory about cannibalistic democratic elites.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 6th, 2020 at 6:29 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Dan74 said:
Not that you guys are going to care, but here we have a country that has probably even more diversity and is held together reasonably well. Partly due to a fairly loose confederation, partly due to the belief in the common project. Take a typical French Swiss urbanite from Geneva and put her together with a typical Swiss German speaking Protestant church-going farmer from the Canton of Glarus. In terms of their outlooks, views and day-to-day life, habits, food, they might as well be from different planets, or at least different centuries. And apart from that, they don't even speak a language in common. Yet, they vote in the same elections and manage not to hate each other.

Malcolm wrote:
You didn’t fight a civil war. This is just 1860 one hundred and sixty years later.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 6th, 2020 at 12:33 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Queequeg said:
localizing power, that's something that is going to be more difficult to work out.

Malcolm wrote:
I do not agree with this scenario.

Small government arguments are anti-democratic, they were 1786, and they still are.

Queequeg said:
We're not talking about small or big government. We're talking about communities having self determination.

We live in different communities - different world views, different values, different morality, different ideas about how the communities should be governed. We've all basically established that we live in different communities in practice. Localizing power is just formalizing that.

As I said, we may not like the outcomes, but what other choices do we have? Forcing values on each other? That's undemocratic, too.

Malcolm wrote:
We already have local power.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 6th, 2020 at 12:02 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Queequeg said:
localizing power, that's something that is going to be more difficult to work out.

Malcolm wrote:
I do not agree with this scenario.

Small government arguments are anti-democratic, they were 1786, and they still are.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 5th, 2020 at 11:46 PM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
Thanks.maybe Hinduism suits my beliefs best and I am not suited to Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I think this is a fair statement.

The view of Buddhism is dependent origination. This is not compatible with any theory of first causation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 5th, 2020 at 11:31 PM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:



Queequeg said:
Domestically, that might mean those of us in the blue states are going to have to respect that deeply religious people in Indiana don't want the values we live by in the Northeast or the West Coast. We need to respect the self determination, even if we don't like the outcome. And that goes for the red states.

That could be problematic for environmental issues. That's something we'll need to work on, but, the third rail social issues are positioning us for fights that are just not worth it.

Malcolm wrote:
The red states need to stop being welfare queens, and start paying their fair share of taxes.

As far as values go, with the present set up, I am more worried about the bat shit crazy religious right trying to impose their values on me and mine.

Environmental issues are non-negotiable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 5th, 2020 at 9:33 AM
Title: Re: Which Bhumi is synomous with the Theravad Arahant?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Non-afflictive ignorance satisfies that definition.

Astus said:
Since that means grasping at concepts like apprehender-apprehended, and agent-action-object, how would it be free from clinging?

Malcolm wrote:
Why would clinging be entailed? You certainly have no proven this to be so, you’ve merely asserted it. In any case,  Mahayana rules here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 5th, 2020 at 9:30 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
The part you are not understanding is that Shunyata = there is no such thing as cause and effect ultimately, they are relative designations. That's the very point. Do the analysis yourself, where are these ultimate beginnings and endings?

Your point of view as Malcolm says is something akin to Advaita.

You should try to study with a Buddhist teacher. How long have you been studying Buddhism now? A couple months? You are missing big chunks of these arguments.

Still waiting for you to show me the phenomena that have ultimate beginnings and endings, I'd love an example.

PadmaVonSamba said:
This thread can have an ending if it Is locked

Artziebetter1 said:
my arguments throughout this thread haven't really been adressed though.it would be ashame to lock it so soon.

Malcolm wrote:
They have been addressed. You just don’t recognize it. Your point of view isn’t acceptable in Buddhadharma, and does not even remotely resemble gzhan stong.

It’s pretty clear you’ve no interest in learning anything, so I will leave this here. Even if I answered every objection you raised, you would not accept my replies. Your assertions are incoherent because your premises all stem from a priori assumptions. So, there is no point because there is no common basis for a discussion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 5th, 2020 at 8:12 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:


Artziebetter1 said:
the effect is the Cause,but as a expression of freewill.there is only unique immaterial consciousness,wich due to infinite power can ilimit and atomize itself,yet remain transcendant to it.this is vijnaptimatrata.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is Hinduism, Advaita specifically. Your views, to which you are entitled, are found in no Buddhist School. Your are in the wrong forum.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 5th, 2020 at 12:37 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/upshot/pennsylvania-election-results-ballots.html

The Remaining Vote in Pennsylvania Appears to Be Overwhelmingly for Biden


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 5th, 2020 at 12:28 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
DNS said:
7 states have not been called yet. Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Alaska, Nevada.

Trump is leading in Alaska, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania.
Biden is leading in Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada.

If those leads hold out and they win those states, the final electoral vote will be Biden winning 270-268 in one of the closest elections ever.

Nevada might decide the election!


Malcolm wrote:
1,400,000 uncounted mail-in ballots in PA. This favors the Dems.

However, only 50% of electorate turned out, which means that 3 out of every 4 adult Americans are douches. Who precisely is a douche depends on who you voted for. But this means regardless of who one voted for, 50 percent of the US adult population are total losers officially, subtracting those deprived of voting privileges through voter suppression.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 5th, 2020 at 12:27 AM
Title: Re: So your brother went down the Qanon hole...
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
Trump is likely to win reelection.

Malcolm wrote:
Doesn't seem likely at this point in the game. Biden leads in Wisconsin, Mich, and Nevada, and there are three million mail in ballots to count in PA, which favor Democrats.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 5th, 2020 at 12:25 AM
Title: Re: Which Bhumi is synomous with the Theravad Arahant?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, there is.
That is why Mogallana had to ask the Buddha where his mother was. That’s an obscuration.

Astus said:
That is a story in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulanpen_Sutra, the closest event mentioned in the Pali Canon ( https://suttacentral.net/pv14/en/kiribathgoda ) is where Sariputta successfully helps his mother without the assistance of the Buddha. On the other hand, in the https://suttacentral.net/sn54.9/en/sujato the Buddha asked Ananda about why 'the mendicant Saṅgha seem so diminished'.
In any case, how do you define an obscuration that can be present without grasping at anything?

Malcolm wrote:
Non-afflictive ignorance satisfies that definition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 4th, 2020 at 8:07 AM
Title: Re: Which Bhumi is synomous with the Theravad Arahant?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This was your assertion, "An arahant in Theravada is free from all attachments. In Mahayana only a buddha has that level of freedom."
This assertion is mistaken.

Astus said:
Only buddhas are free from the two obscurations, meaning that even on the 10th bhumi there is some clinging to concepts. Arahants, in Theravada at least, are free from attachment to both physical and mental phenomena, so there is no room for any obscuration.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, there is.

That is why Mogallana had to ask the Buddha where his mother was. That’s an obscuration.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 4th, 2020 at 3:29 AM
Title: Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics
Content:


javier.espinoza.t said:
longsal works. gesar doesn't. that's the point in case you haven't noticed.

Malcolm wrote:
Gesar won't work for you, that's for sure.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 4th, 2020 at 1:10 AM
Title: Re: Which Bhumi is synomous with the Theravad Arahant?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes,  the Buddha clearly makes this distinction in various suttas found in the Pali canon. So while Theravadins argue there is no difference in bodhi, they do not claim that arhats are party to the same knowledge as a buddha: example, Mogallana had to ask the Buddha where his mother had taken rebirth. Hence, the distinction is recognized in Theravada as well.

Astus said:
There can be many differences even among the arahants, depending on what qualities they possess. In what there is no difference between an arahant and a buddha is complete freedom from all attachments. The various special qualities of a buddha are not the result of liberation, but the accumulated merits/paramis, at least in Theravada.

Malcolm wrote:
This was your assertion, "An arahant in Theravada is free from all attachments. In Mahayana only a buddha has that level of freedom."

This assertion is mistaken.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020 at 10:35 AM
Title: Re: So your brother went down the Qanon hole...
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Back when we thought envoys from advanced alien civilizations would look like they stepped out of Nazi propaganda. After all, they are a "master race," so to speak, in the minds of true believers in the interstellar policemen. Now I guess "we" think angels look that way.

To be fair though, white people angels pre-date white people aliens, to say nothing of white Jesus etc. Compare with depictions of angels in Near Eastern mythology and they are basically Sphinxes. We all know this though. Sorry for the off-topic.

PeterC said:
If we're going with biblical descriptions, they're extremely far from human.  Six-winged beings of fire; chariot wheels; beings with four faces (man, lion, ox, eagle), four wings covered with eyes, and the body of a lion (possibly a Sumerian origin)...

Malcolm wrote:
Those were some really good mushrooms...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020 at 10:00 AM
Title: Re: So your brother went down the Qanon hole...
Content:
PeterC said:
Q-retards

Malcolm wrote:
Or as we call em around here “Qtards.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020 at 6:54 AM
Title: Re: The Sagacious Buddhist Blog, Altruistic Intention
Content:
cjdevries said:
I have the impression, based on what I've read from others, that Mike Turner is an excellent dharma coach.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I agree with Malcolm. I don't know what he teaches, he appears to be essentially his own tradition, but claiming to teach people stream entry. That's a big claim, and even more iffy to me is that he only does this in "private lessons". He does mention learning from Thubten Chodron, but I wonder whether he is authorized to teach what he is teaching by her or anyone else. He says he is  a Gelugpa, but does not appear to think much of their praxis..otherwise one assumes he'd be seeking authorization and teaching that.

The reviews read like he is essentially doing counseling with people from a Buddhist point of view. I think there is actually a real place for this, but it is not the same thing as being a Dharma teacher at all.

I don't wish to prejudge him, so I freely admit I may be wrong, but to me there are some serious red flags here that make it worth being very critical about his writings. Looking through his website and "Buddhist enlightenment training and "dharma life coaching" does nothing to dissuade from a cautious approach.

Malcolm wrote:
Its a bunch of bullshit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020 at 5:53 AM
Title: Re: The Sagacious Buddhist Blog, Altruistic Intention
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Anyone who calls themselves an ārya should be avoided.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:
YesheD. said:
I’m not clear what the underlying dynamic is here.....there seems to be an agenda of some kind.

Malcolm wrote:
The issue here is that gzhan stong pas divide Madhyamaka up into two divisions, those who assert or try to prove intrinsic emptiness, that is that all entities of whatever kind are rang stong, intrinsically empty, including buddhahood and its various attributes, ultimate truth, and so on. This position that they attribute to their opponents is described as "rang stong."

The gzhan stong position, extrinsic emptiness, is that while it is perfectly fine to assert that relative truth is intrinsically empty, they maintain it is incorrect to assert that ultimate truth is intrinsically empty, claiming ultimate truth is merely empty of relative truth. The substance of their claim depends on applying the three natures of the Yogacāra school to the two truths of Madhyamaka, positing that the imagined and dependent natures belong to relative truth, and the perfected nature belongs to ultimate truth, and that the perfected nature is empty of the imagined and dependent nature. Some of them (mainly the Jonang pas) further claim that tathāgatagarbha is this perfected nature, and that therefore, ultimate buddha qualities exist inherently in sentient beings in a fully developed form (the flaw in that argument is the consequence that the ultimate will have parts).

The whole debate goes back to a dispute between Indian Mahāyānists over whether the ultimate is a so-called affirming or a nonaffirming negation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020 at 1:20 AM
Title: Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics
Content:


javier.espinoza.t said:
i think gesar is no other than yet another tibetan folk lore thing taking place among buddhadharma. is culture, not dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
ChNN was heavily into Gesar practice, personally. I know this because we talked about it when we were watching a Gesar movie together over a bottle of Brunello. He did not want to say too much, though, since when I asked him about specific practices, he said they were secret, and ended the conversation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020 at 1:14 AM
Title: Re: Which Bhumi is synomous with the Theravad Arahant?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
False. The obscuration of affliction is abandoned on the seventh bhumi. Bodhisattvas on the pure stages are also free of attachments.
In the shravaka schools, the difference between an arhat and is Buddha is that the former has nonafflictive ignorance and the latter does not.

Astus said:
That's a distinction coming from Sarvastivada that was then used by Mahayana. No such difference exists in Theravada.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes,  the Buddha clearly makes this distinction in various suttas found in the Pali canon. So while Theravadins argue there is no difference in bodhi, they do not claim that arhats are party to the same knowledge as a buddha: example, Mogallana had to ask the Buddha where his mother had taken rebirth. Hence, the distinction is recognized in Theravada as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020 at 1:12 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Kongtrul was a Shentongpa. Shentongpas don’t say Nagarjuna was wrong. They say he correctly deconstructs appearances.

It’s the Rangtongpas that say Shentong is wrong, heretical, blasphemy, etc. And if you think I’m exaggerating just ask a Jonangpa. (Or Malcolm.)

Malcolm wrote:
You haven’t established there Is such a position as  “rang stong” that exists outside of gzhan stong polemics.

There are of course scholars who consider the positions set forth by gzhan  stong adherents to be deficient in varying degrees of severity. But their critiques of gzhan stong do not make them adherents of a so-called “rang stong.” Expecting those who are not gzhan stong pas to accept the appellation “rang stong pa” is a bit like expecting Kamala Harris to admit to being a communist merely because Trump insists she is.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
See what I mean?

Malcolm wrote:
You've decided to adopt the label "gzhan stong pa" for yourself, so you can't be upset if people refer to you as such, but you cannot expect people to simply accept your polemical description of them, especially if they don't accept the basis of your polemic to begin with.

See what I mean?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 2nd, 2020 at 10:56 PM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Kongtrul ToK book 6 part 3

YesheD. said:
Well I think that is what everyone has been saying to you.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Kongtrul was a Shentongpa. Shentongpas don’t say Nagarjuna was wrong. They say he correctly deconstructs appearances.

It’s the Rangtongpas that say Shentong is wrong, heretical, blasphemy, etc. And if you think I’m exaggerating just ask a Jonangpa. (Or Malcolm.)

Malcolm wrote:
You haven’t established there Is such a position as  “rang stong” that exists outside of gzhan stong polemics.

There are of course scholars who consider the positions set forth by gzhan  stong adherents to be deficient in varying degrees of severity. But their critiques of gzhan stong do not make them adherents of a so-called “rang stong.” Expecting those who are not gzhan stong pas to accept the appellation “rang stong pa” is a bit like expecting Kamala Harris to admit to being a communist merely because Trump insists she is.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 2nd, 2020 at 10:26 PM
Title: Re: Which Bhumi is synomous with the Theravad Arahant?
Content:
sapo7 said:
Do we know for sure which Bhumi corresponds to the Theravadin version of Arahanthood?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bh%C5%ABmi_%28Buddhism%29

Astus said:
An arahant in Theravada is free from all attachments. In Mahayana only a buddha has that level of freedom.

Malcolm wrote:
False. The obscuration of affliction is abandoned on the seventh bhumi. Bodhisattvas on the pure stages are also free of attachments.

In the shravaka schools, the difference between an arhat and is Buddha is that the former has nonafflictive ignorance and the latter does not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 2nd, 2020 at 8:20 PM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Kongtrul ToK book 6 part 3 The supreme traditions of these two chariots do not contradict each other:

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is the point of view of some scholars. Others disagree. There are many arguments for both sides.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 2nd, 2020 at 9:05 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I had very low expectations for his presidency, and that turned out to be reasonable.

Malcolm wrote:
Me too, but he is kind of like Churchill’s quip about Democracy. Obama may have been a terrible president. But he was better than anyone since Carter,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 2nd, 2020 at 8:41 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Trodral is not rang stong, nor is it gzhan stong— it’s beyond such proliferations.
Okay so since you just used “rang stong” to mean Self-Empty, and “gzhan stong” to mean “Empty-of-Other”, we can proceed using those terms.

Malcolm wrote:
You can. But it’s not accurate. There is no such thing as “rang stong dbu ma.” It’s a contradiction in terms.  “Intrinsic emptiness” can’t be a “middle way.” Neither can “extrinsic emptiness.”

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Yet rang stongpas, such as yourself, commonly deny gzhan stong is consistent with Nagarjuna’s philosophy.

Malcolm wrote:
Not a rang stong pa. Once we get that straightened out, then we can proceed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 2nd, 2020 at 7:42 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
So lay down your cards, and give me the terms you’d like to use.

Malcolm wrote:
There are three kinds of Madhyamaka in Tibet: Trodralwas, Gandenpas, and Zhantongpas. Only the middle one actually belongs to a specific sect. The first and the third are found in the other four sects in varying proportions, with the last being strongly identified with the Jonang school.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
We can either ignore Gandenpas or fold them into Troldawas.

Malcolm wrote:
No, we can’t.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Plus we can stop assuming “Madhyamaka” to mean Nagarjuna’s philosophy, and instead it simply means “Middle Way”, which is applicable to both Self-Empty and Other-Empty.

Malcolm wrote:
Nagarjuna is the gold standard, that’s why everyone calls themselves “madhyamikas.”

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Okay, so then your preferred terminology is Trodalwas for Self-Empty, and Zhantong for Empty-of-Other.

Malcolm wrote:
Trodral is not rang stong, nor is it gzhan stong— it’s beyond such proliferations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 2nd, 2020 at 5:14 AM
Title: Re: POTUS poll #4 (revised)
Content:
Minobu said:
2 Sleeps to the election.

feels like several lifetimes ago that President Obama graced the White House.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Really? Because Bush II and him partially helped pave the way for the authoritarianism of Trump to have much freer reign. Obama for instance went after whistleblowers and presided over the NSA spying scandal, did nothing but increase executive power and secrecy, following Bush II who of course ramped all that up after 9-11. In short, the entire political establishment helped normalize some things that never should have been normalized, and now we have Trump in office. Thanks guys.

I mean, Trump is awful, don't get me wrong, but a rosy view of the Obama admin actually misses a part of sickness, of which Trump is both a symptom and a perpetuating cause.

Malcolm wrote:
Obama is a nice guy, and played the hand he was dealt as well as and as fairly as he knew how. Still he was miles better than any president we have had in decades.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 2nd, 2020 at 5:09 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
So lay down your cards, and give me the terms you’d like to use.

Malcolm wrote:
There are three kinds of Madhyamaka in Tibet: Trodralwas, Gandenpas, and Zhantongpas. Only the middle one actually belongs to a specific sect. The first and the third are found in the other four sects in varying proportions, with the last being strongly identified with the Jonang school.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 2nd, 2020 at 4:52 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
1. Prasangika Madhyamaka vs. Great Madhyamaka. (Maha-Madhyamaka)

Malcolm wrote:
Every brand of Madhyamaka in Tibet calls itself "dbu ma chen po." Gzhan stong does not have special dibs on the term.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
2. Prasangika Madhyamaka vs. Yogacara-Madhyamaka

Malcolm wrote:
This means Prasangika vs. Shantarakṣita's Yogacāra Madhyamaka synthesis. But that is not gzhan stong. Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso largely follows the views of the Sakya master, Shakya Chogden who sought to reconcile the veiws of the Yogacāra school with the views of Madhyamaka. He failed. But his work is very interesting. Taranatha published a detailed account of how Shakya Chogden's views differed from Dolpopa's. But even so, this is merely calling Yogacāra "Madhyamaka." It is not related to what most people understand as Yogacāra Madhyamaka, that is, Śantarakṣita's synthesis.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
3. Self-Emtiness vs. Emptiness-of-Other
4. Rongtong vs. Shentong
To be clear, the distinction is between self-empty and empty-of-other.


Malcolm wrote:
Only if you are a gzhan stong pa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 2nd, 2020 at 3:36 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Khenpo Tsultrim’s book, “Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness” presents the various views—guess what!—in a progression! The final view presented is Shentong.

While Jonangpas and Nyingmapas call Shentong “Great Madhyamaka”, Khenpo Tsultrim calls it is Yogacara. This does not means he equates it with “Mind Only”. He uses Cittamatra to refer to that. And given that “Mind Only” and “Empty of Other” use the same terms and texts, that’s painfully confusing.

So perhaps for this conversation “Rongtong” and “Shentong” should be used.

Malcolm wrote:
No, since "rang stong" is a polemical appellation invented by gzhan stong pas. The term has no validity at all for anyone outside their milieu, for example, Sakyapas, Gelugpas, and Nyingmapas who follow the tradition of Khenpo Shenga (which is most Eastern Tibetan Nyingma Colleges, Dzogchen, Kathog, etc.). There are also Nyingma Colleges who follow Gelug Madhyamaka, especially in Amdo.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 2nd, 2020 at 12:25 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:



Danny said:
Hmm, maybe the material possessions are a manifestation of those termas?
Anyway Pete, hope you find some peace of mind, it’s a great day outside, I’m going out.

Malcolm wrote:
All compounded phenomena are impermanent.

Danny said:
But not the accumulation and dispersement of merit, which can also manifest as material phenomena.

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on the type of merit. Most merit is quite perishable. Merit is just positive karma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 1st, 2020 at 9:39 PM
Title: Re: The material world of Mahayana
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
But it’s nothing like the glut of merchandise in literally every price range for sale to Mahayana Buddhists.

...

Any thoughts?

Malcolm wrote:
Mahāyāna is better for the economy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 1st, 2020 at 6:42 PM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
In any case, it is not true everyone holds Madhyamaka as the highest view. Khenpo Tsultrim’s “Progressive Stages of Emptiness” clearly places Shentong above Madhyamaka. And since Khenpo Tsultrim is someone, that means not everyone holds Madhyamaka as the highest view, by definition.

Malcolm wrote:
There are three varieties of Madhyamaka among Tibetans. Gzhan stong is one of them. The other two are the Gelug school and the pre-gzhan stong, pre-Gelug variety that for convenience we will call Classical Tibetan Madhyamaka, which was the only form in Madhyamaka in Tibet prior to prior to the 14th century.

Classical Tibetan Madhyamaka itself has its own set of controversies, of course, such as the 12th century distinction between svatantrika and prasangika positions, and so on.

But all of these trends refer to themselves as Madhyamaka and they all proclaim their view is the highest.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 1st, 2020 at 10:55 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
No, everyone agrees Madhyamaka is the highest view.
No they don’t, and you know it. Unless of course you’re including Shentong as a form of Madhyamaka, “Great Madhyamaka” that is.

It’s weird when you get disingenuous like that.

Malcolm wrote:
Gzhan stong scholars, all of them, proclaim their position is consistent with and represents the intention of Nagarjuna’s Madhyamaka.

The question is not their allegiance to Nagarjuna, the question is whether their views are consistent with that allegiance.

I’ve read a great deal more in this area than you have. It’s really not debatable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 1st, 2020 at 7:45 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
The general idea I got from the original post was that it misses the point of Madhyamaka,
You’re assuming Madhyamaka is the highest view. For some people and schools it is, and for others it isn’t. It depends on who you talk to.

Recently H.H.Karmapa listed the 3 views as:

Madhyamaka
Mind Only
Buddha Nature.

That is changing the conversation.

Malcolm wrote:
No, everyone agrees  Madhyamaka is the highest view. In Tibet, however, there is some disagreement over what constitutes Madhyamaka view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 1st, 2020 at 4:45 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:



Danny said:
Hmm, maybe the material possessions are a manifestation of those termas?
Anyway Pete, hope you find some peace of mind, it’s a great day outside, I’m going out.

Malcolm wrote:
All compounded phenomena are impermanent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 1st, 2020 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: why I believe Tathagatagarbha exists as a intrinsic existance.
Content:


Artziebetter1 said:
or an infinite number of conditioned Dharmas alone

Malcolm wrote:
This is the correct answer. There is no beginning, at all, anywhere.


Artziebetter1 said:
Since any model made up entirely of conditioned Dharmas can never have their conditions fulfilled, every conditioned Dharma must be caused by a series of realities that ends (or begins its ontological Series) with an unconditioned Dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
No, due to a dissimilarity because cause and effect. No unconditioned dharma can produce a conditioned dharma. If an unconditioned dharma could produce a conditioned dharma, it would have to produce all its effects at once. An unconditioned dharma cannot produce effects serially, in time, because then it would have parts, and thus would be conditioned, rather than unconditioned.

Artziebetter1 said:
Thus it follows that a intrinsic Existance does exist.

Malcolm wrote:
Your conclusion does not follow from your premise, you are merely restating your premise as the conclusion.


Artziebetter1 said:
the rangtong definition of Shunyata fails in light of this.


Malcolm wrote:
Your argument has nothing to do with the rang ston/gzhan stong controversy. Your argument is pulled from a theistic argument concerning the existence of a creator being. Buddhism, including gzhan stong, negates first causes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, October 30th, 2020 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
PeterC said:
Does anyone know what the issue is with Samtengar that is mentioned in the Q&A?  Please PM if not appropriate for public discussion

dharmafootsteps said:
An instructor from there is giving direct introduction.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, a guy named Wesley. He owns Samten Gar.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, October 27th, 2020 at 9:09 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment in a Pure Land
Content:
Aryjna said:
The main question is to what degree you can make rapid progress by doing that, in comparison to taking aeons until buddhahood. If you could shorten the time by travelling to Vajrayana oriented pure realms, then buddhahood would take a few centuries at most for everyone in Sukhavati. At least some, for example Lama Yeshe, as has been discussed so far, reportedly do not agree that you can do that in Sukhavati.

Seeker12 said:
Seems a bit odd to me given that Guru RInpoche is an emanation of Amitabha.

Aryjna said:
Yes, it seems strange.

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrayana is the most rare teaching. For example, it will not be taught by Maitreya Buddha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, October 26th, 2020 at 11:13 PM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The tulku tradition, and also the notion of "lineage holders" in Tibetan Buddhism.

Astus said:
Tulkus are nominated mostly when they're children, and then they receive their education. As for lineage holders, is there actually a process of making that a qualification? Isn't it rather an expression meaning someone who knows the teachings of a lineage? So, neither of them seem to be like what goes on in Zen. For instance, to make it like Zen, Milarepa should have at one point told Gampopa that their attainment were the same, and not advise him to keep practising.

Malcolm wrote:
In many instances, students are told by their Masters they have attained what their master attained. It is quite common, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, October 26th, 2020 at 7:35 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
I understand you to be asserting that there is something unique about Zen's approach to lineage and transmission, but I'm not clear about where you think the uniqueness lies.

Astus said:
Do you know other schools where lineage means not the transmission of a method or doctrine, but those confirmed as awakened (it is the nature of this confirmation that can have a variety of meanings)?

Malcolm wrote:
The tulku tradition, and also the notion of "lineage holders" in Tibetan Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, October 25th, 2020 at 11:58 PM
Title: Re: Pure view without being Panglossian.
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
In short, the pedestrian mind is capable of seeing the horrors of the world. There’s no spinning it as anything other than the 1st Noble Truth. If the pedestrian mind is correct, and it sees things as they actually are, then everything else is intellectual masturbation. Maybe it’s interesting, but moot.

However if it is true that the pedestrian mind has veils that hide things as they actually are, and if there is a way to remove those veils, then it sees things incorrectly. And reports from people that have seen things more clearly will conflict with what seems obvious, certain, and indisputable on the surface.

“Self empty”? “Illusory”? “Perfect just as it is”? “Everything is good”? I don’t see things that way, But I’m willing to be open to the idea that it is my vision that is fundamentally in error.

Malcolm wrote:
The pedestrian mind sees suffering as happiness, the impermanent as permanent, and not self as self. Aryas perceive things as they are. This meaning is also true even in mahamudra and dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, October 25th, 2020 at 6:45 PM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
. Same stories with people like Dudjom Lingpa who had no human teacher.

Malcolm wrote:
Dudjom Lingoa had a human teacher, to whom he was very devoted and from whom he received the Termas of Dudul Dorje, his predecessor. This is very clearly discussed in his autobiography.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I didn’t know that specifically, only that he remarks many times on not having human teacher, receiving teaching from enlightened beings etc.

Malcolm wrote:
He very specifically mentions his guru in his autobiography.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, October 25th, 2020 at 6:59 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
. Same stories with people like Dudjom Lingpa who had no human teacher.

Malcolm wrote:
Dudjom Lingoa had a human teacher, to whom he was very devoted and from whom he received the Termas of Dudul Dorje, his predecessor. This is very clearly discussed in his autobiography.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, October 24th, 2020 at 9:39 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment in a Pure Land
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is only apparition birth there, and no human women, And, there is in fact no Vajrayana practice in this buddhafield, as opposed to say, Zandok Palri.

Losal Samten said:
There are Vajrayana initiations given there, for example the Nyingma/Drikung Great Phowa which was given directly from Amitabha there, and the Sri Mahadevi lower tantra was preached there also.

https://read.84000.co/translation/UT22084-061-013.html

Malcolm wrote:
Dharani texts are not tantras. Pure vision teachings on transference received here do not mean such teachings are actually taught there, what would be the point?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, October 24th, 2020 at 5:53 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Your guru represents the totality of the Dharna, as it is said, “the guru is the Buddha...the Dharma...and the Sangha.

Astus said:
How does that relate to Dharma transmission in Zen? It's not taught that one should cultivate that sort of devotion as in Vajrayana.

Malcolm wrote:
You asserted, “ The Zen lineage represents a series of awakened patriarchs who embody the totality of the Dharma.“

How is the above different from your assertion? The guru also embodies the lineage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, October 24th, 2020 at 5:05 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment in a Pure Land
Content:
Aryjna said:
What I find a bit difficult is to reconcile the fact that many Vajrayana masters (apparently including Machig Labdron), suggest going there, if it is really the case that you are cut off from Vajrayana.

Malcolm wrote:
You don’t need it in Sukhavati.

Aryjna said:
I suppose so. It seems a bit strange though, when they could suggest Zangdokpalri instead.

Malcolm wrote:
Different strokes...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, October 24th, 2020 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
These three qualities are inherent in Vajrayana, for example, and also in Vinaya.

Astus said:
Since Vajrayana couldn't have been much of a source for Zen, it is the Vinaya part that should be looked into. The Vinaya prescribes novice training, but after the first five years a monk is independent. Dharma transmission is not like that, it is not a training, but a confirmation of enlightenment. The Zen lineage represents a series of awakened patriarchs who embody the totality of the Dharma. From this it should be clear that it is not like Vajrayana either.

Malcolm wrote:
Your guru represents the totality of the Dharna, as it is said, “the guru is the Buddha...the Dharma...and the Sangha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, October 24th, 2020 at 5:00 AM
Title: Re: Pure view without being Panglossian.
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Enlightened beings and sentient beings may look the same, but they are as different as caterpillars and butterflies.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is false. There is no substantial difference between Buddhas and sentient beings. We don’t become Buddhas, we already are Buddhas—at least, that’s what the Hevajra and other tantras state.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
That is true if you are speaking n the sense of
their primordial essence both being Buddha Nature. Of course.

However if you are speaking about how they manifest as appearances, there’s all the difference in the world. One manifests as limitations, suffering, defilements, and delusions. The other manifests as freedoms, peace, and spontaneously beneficial activity.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no substantial difference, the difference is solely the presence or absence of afflictions, and afflictions are not something substantial to be removed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, October 24th, 2020 at 4:56 AM
Title: Re: Akaniṣṭha is the gzhi
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
That rather depends on context.

90hj209gh0g49h said:
Okay thank you, so if the dharmadhātu is understood to be the same thing as the gzhi, and Akaniṣṭha is understood to be the dharmadhātu, then in what context does this equivalency not hold?

Malcolm wrote:
Mahāyāna Sutra, where Akanistha is the sambhogakaya buddhafield, and Hinayana sutra, where Akanistha is the highest form realm heaven among the five pure abodes. They are different.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, October 23rd, 2020 at 8:26 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment in a Pure Land
Content:
Aryjna said:
What I find a bit difficult is to reconcile the fact that many Vajrayana masters (apparently including Machig Labdron), suggest going there, if it is really the case that you are cut off from Vajrayana.

Malcolm wrote:
You don’t need it in Sukhavati.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, October 23rd, 2020 at 8:23 PM
Title: Re: Pure view without being Panglossian.
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Enlightened beings and sentient beings may look the same, but they are as different as caterpillars and butterflies.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is false. There is no substantial difference between Buddhas and sentient beings. We don’t become Buddhas, we already are Buddhas—at least, that’s what the Hevajra and other tantras state.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, October 23rd, 2020 at 8:22 PM
Title: Re: Pure view without being Panglossian.
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
All the Tantras I’m familiar with maintain the normal, common perception of phenomena is mistaken. The actual mode of being, the way things actually are, is as a Buddha Realm. They don’t say “just the good parts”.

Malcolm wrote:
Grasping unmistaken perception is also mistaken.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, October 23rd, 2020 at 7:40 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment in a Pure Land
Content:
Tenma said:
Mind if I may see the source containing this quote, please? Thanks!

GrapeLover said:
It’s cited in the book “Approaching the Land of Bliss” in a section by Matthew Kapstein, but the footnote citing the source isn’t available in the online preview.

Aryjna said:
Various  Dzogchen/Mahamudra masters suggest Sukhavati practice, phowa, etc., so the argument about no tantra because of missing sexual organs sounds weird, and has not really been supported so far. Also, as far as I know, it is not mentioned that beings in Sukhavati do not have sexual organs, just that there are no females, other than offering devis (again the devis part is from Karma Chagme's aspiration). If anything, since sexual organs are one of the marks of a Buddha, and beings in Sukhavati have different marks (or maybe develop them over time?), the reasonable thing is that they have sexual organs.

However, this quote by Machig Labdron sounds a bit extreme, that it is not actually possible in practice to go to any other field for humans. It would be good to have a specific text name.

Malcolm wrote:
There is only apparition birth there, and no human women, And, there is in fact no Vajrayana practice in this buddhafield, as opposed to say, Zandok Palri.

There is a Dzogchen understanding of the buddhafields, but it is quite different than Chagmey’s aspiration.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, October 23rd, 2020 at 7:33 PM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Astus said:
In McRae's words (Seeing Through Zen...

Malcolm wrote:
This book is very cynical, and he makes erroneous assertions such as this:
By saying that Chan practice is fundamentally genealogical, I mean that it is derived from a genealogically understood encounter experience that is relational (involving interaction between individuals rather than being based solely on individual effort), generational (in that it is organized according to parent-child, or rather teacher-student, generations), and reiterative (i.e., intended for emulation and repetition in the lives of present and future teachers and students). No matter what the comparison or relationship between Chinese Chan and earlier forms of Indian Buddhist meditation practice, this particular complex of qualities is not found in other schools or forms of Buddhist training.
These three qualities are inherent in Vajrayana, for example, and also in Vinaya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, October 23rd, 2020 at 7:28 PM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Astus said:
The fictional nature of the lineage already shows in the above, since those teachers revered among Sarvastivadins and others had practically nothing to do with Mahayana, much less Zen.

Malcolm wrote:
How can you say Ananda had nothing to do with Mahayana?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, October 23rd, 2020 at 9:14 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Well, If you read Tibetan, you could read Lama Dampa's Sonam Gyaltsen's record of lineages for Vinaya, Abhidharma, Pramana, Bodhisattva vows, etc., and so on, as well as lineages Vajrayāna lineages, you name it,

Astus said:
Anything about a thousand years before him, just to see how the concept of Dharma lineages already existed in various Indian schools?

Malcolm wrote:
As you know, there has been massive destruction of texts in India and China. But the Theravada chronicle of ordinations is illustrative.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, October 23rd, 2020 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The notion of lineage is found in all Buddhist schools in India, and was carried to Tibet, China, etc., from there. Inconsistencies in the record do not indicate that such lineages are fictions, the central point of your contention.

Astus said:
If so, could you point to some sources specifying lineages of Dharma?

Malcolm wrote:
Well, If you read Tibetan, you could read Lama Dampa's Sonam Gyaltsen's record of lineages for Vinaya, Abhidharma, Pramana, Bodhisattva vows, etc., and so on, as well as lineages Vajrayāna lineages, you name it,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, October 23rd, 2020 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:


Astus said:
However, it should be clear that what was created in China as special lineages are qualitatively different from the common understanding that monastics are heirs of the Buddha, and it was meant to set apart a unique group of people who wield more authority than ordinary monks, eventually resulting in the system of public monasteries bound to lineage members and under the direct control of the imperial court (see: How Zen Became Zen, p 39).


Malcolm wrote:
The notion of lineage is found in all Buddhist schools in India, and was carried to Tibet, China, etc., from there. Inconsistencies in the record do not indicate that such lineages are fictions, the central point of your contention.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, October 23rd, 2020 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment in a Pure Land
Content:


Zhen Li said:
The Sahāloka was not established by vows. Not every land is the result of compassionate means. I think you are tending to read into my words claims that I did not make.

Malcolm wrote:
Every buddhafield is established through the aspiration of the bodhisattvas who then appear there as buddhas. Some are "pure," some are not. But even here, the Vimalakīrtinirdeśa chapter on buddhafields both establishes this point and that also the Sahāloka is actually a pure buddhafield generated out of the aspiration of the Bodhisattva:

The Buddha said, “Śāriputra, this buddhafield is always thus pure, but the Tathāgata makes it appear to be spoiled by many faults, in order to bring about the maturity of inferior living beings. For example, Śāriputra, the gods of the Trayastriṃśa heaven all take their food from a single precious vessel, yet the nectar that nourishes each one differs according to the differences of the merits each has accumulated. Just so, Śāriputra, living beings born in the same buddhafield see the splendor of the virtues of the buddhafields of the buddhas according to their own degrees of purity.”
https://read.84000.co/translation/toh176.html#UT22084-060-005-92




Zhen Li said:
Your Sanskrit needs some work. Prasanna in BHS is believing.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the Tibetan is also very clear, prasannacittā is "sems rab tu dang ba," and carries connotations faith, clarity, and being undisturbed; "dang ba" is a synonym is "gsal ba," as demonstrated in the phrase, "tshig gsal," "prasannapāda," and as shown in the 9th century translator lexicon, the Mahāvyutpati, which gives "dang ba ; dang ba 'm gsal ba ; gsal ba - prasannaḥ (mvyut_7295)."

The reason why this reading is preferable to simply having a mind of faith, "dad mos kyi sems" is that one must be clear minded at the time of death in order to have this experience, otherwise, arguably, the sūtra would had prāsadacitta. Also, Edgerton, while useful, has limits since there really is no such thing as BHS.

Zhen Li said:
The "aspiring mind" is interpreted as lacking doubt, and is thus an element of prasanna. Someone with shinjin "knows" that they are going to the Pure Land without doubt—it is not a worldly desire or aspiration as you understand. Thus it is prasanna.

Malcolm wrote:
To lack doubt is to be clear. The use of dang ba in Tibetan is very precise, dang ba'i dad pa for example means "clear faith."

Zhen Li said:
Hear or say are not interpolations by Shinran, there is a long history of understanding 念 recitation, which is not necessary to get into here.

Malcolm wrote:
I already granted that śruta can be both hear and say.

[/quote]
I'm not sure where you are getting these ideas, since you are clearly not familiar with Shinran's thought.
[/quote]

I've read everything that has been published, admittedly not for some time.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, October 22nd, 2020 at 9:40 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment in a Pure Land
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The http://databases.aibs.columbia.edu/index.php?id=4c80390678a9883498b73fd877664edb&enc=sanskrit_romanized_title_4_search&coll=kangyur

Queequeg said:
Is this the 39th Chapter of the Avatamsaka or is this a different text?

Malcolm wrote:
Different text, you are referring to the Gandhavyuha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, October 22nd, 2020 at 9:01 AM
Title: Re: Saving all beings, ultimate or conventional goal?
Content:
seeker242 said:
So, saving all beings from suffering is the goal of practicing.

Malcolm wrote:
It is an aspiration, not a realistic goal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, October 22nd, 2020 at 7:16 AM
Title: Re: Akaniṣṭha is the gzhi
Content:
90hj209gh0g49h said:
Is this correct?

Malcolm wrote:
That rather depends on context.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, October 22nd, 2020 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: Revisiting Kiva
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.cgdev.org/blog/kiva-not-quite-what-it-seems


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, October 22nd, 2020 at 4:36 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:



Astus said:
That seems to imply to me that Buddhism can exist only apart from what is seen by most as the real world, that is, the realm of conventional truths. However, I think that it poses no problem if Shakyamuni is viewed as a historical person, and Buddhism as a tradition maintained by actual human beings over the centuries, because it does not diminish the validity of the transmitted and realised Dharma. On the other hand, setting it into an unreachable dimension may hurt the possibility of it being accepted as a truth for humans.

Malcolm wrote:
You seem to miss the point of what such empiricism erases, how it salts the soil of tradition, out of which nothing will grow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, October 22nd, 2020 at 4:33 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The notion of lineages was carried from India to Tibet, China, and Central Asia by subcontinental Buddhists, principally by Vajrayana practitioners such as Amoghavajra, but also monastic abbots.

Astus said:
Śubhakarasiṃha arrived in Chang'an in 716...

Malcolm wrote:
Monastic lineage lists certainly predate even these, that as my point.

Holding up western historiography as the pinnacle of human intellectual culture is basically racist. Thus kind of historiography erases indigenous traditions and sensibilities because it is predicated on dominance, as I mentioned before. So it is to be resisted because it is harmful to our tradition, since this kind of historiography insists that only one set of facts can be accepted.
Japan has been the leader in (East Asian) Buddhist studies throughout the 20th century...
The Japanese Buddhist scholars have merely adopted a paradigm of western knowledge accumulation from the Germans, which was used originally for evaluating the Bible. This does not make it any less racist if one asserts it is the summum bonum of knowledge accumulation.

The Japanese have annihilated their own indigenous Buddhist tradition by falling the notion that there can only be a single set of facts, and those are known through textual analysis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, October 22nd, 2020 at 1:38 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment in a Pure Land
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Dharmakara was a bodhisattva on the paths and stages, not a buddha.

Zhen Li said:
The point I am making is not that he was a Buddha, it is that he has characteristics and yet is not, fundamentally, apart from suchness. From the dharmakāya perspective, there is no need for characteristics. From the upāya perspective, you need characteristics.

Malcolm wrote:
No sentient being is apart from suchness, yet not all sentient beings are buddhas.


Zhen Li said:
No, fulfilled land is a term used to indicate suchness, recompensed land is a term used to indicate the Pure Lands as compassionate means.

Malcolm wrote:
What's the Chinese?

Zhen Li said:
This is uncertain. The eleventh aspiration only assures following a proper path, and nothing more.
It assures irreversibility and nirvāṇa:

"If, when I attain Buddhahood, the humans and devas in my land should not dwell in the stage of the truly settled and necessarily attain nirvana, may I not attain the perfect enlightenment."

Malcolm wrote:
It does not assert that someone is reborn an eighth stage bodhisattva, merely that they will never 1) fall into a lower realm, b) that they will be on a correct path, and c) that eventually in time they will attain nirvana.

Are you asserting then that the Sahāloka is nondual with the dharmakāya? If so, then all the benefits of Sukhavati should apply in the Sahāloka, because if you assert that Amitabha is the dharmakāya, then you must assert all buddhas are the dharmakāya, and therefore all buddhafields of all buddhas are nondual with the dharmakāya, whether they are so called pure or impure buddhafields.

Thus, the only reason there is a difference between the Sahāloka and Sukhāvati is that the aspirations of Śākyamuni and Amitabha while on the path were different, accounting for differences in their respective buddhafields. The same applies to Amoghasiddhi's buddhafield, Bhaisajyaguru's buddhafield and so on. This means these nirmāṇakāya buddhafields are only compounded phenomena, not uncompounded.
It's a matter of identity and difference at the same time, depending upon one's level of awakening. All Buddhas emerge from dharmakāya. The benefits of Sukhāvatī are a result of the dharmakāya as compassionate means and not the dharmakāya as suchness are compounded, so they don't apply in the Sahāloka.
This does not make any sense. The Sahāloka is Śākyamuni's buddhafield, so according to your terminology, it is also a result of the dharmakāya as compassionate means. On the other hand, the dharmakāya is knowledge, not a creative force. When we say the rūpakāya emerges from the dharmakāya, this is not mean literally on the sense of a seed emerging from a sprout. You've already agreed that the cause of the rūpakāya is merit.

The question is not the limitations of the dharmakāya, the question is the limitations of the nirmāṇakāya, since the latter appears in various realms to various beings in those realms as a result of their karma, unlike the dharmakāya, which does not appear to sentient beings at all, not even bodhisattvas on the tenth bhumi.
I am not disputing this. Essentially we are largely in agreement about everything but you are not realising it, probably because I am using terminology that is sect specific. The same thing happens to me when I hear people from Tibetan Buddhism.
This happens all the time.
There are levels of irreversibility on each path. For example, someone on the path of accumulation reaches a state of irreversible generation of bodhicitta; someone on the path of application reaches a state of patience where they can no longer fall into lower realms, etc. It is quite impossible for beings to attain the eighth bodhisattva stage merely through birth in Sukhāvati. There is no justification in the sūtra for this position whatsoever. This also ignores the presence of srāvakas of various levels of attainment in Sukhāvati, bodhisattvas of inferior merit, and so on. There is also no statement in any Sukhāvati sūtra or its like which guarantees that one will be born as a eighth stage bodhisattva. Instread, it is due to the incredibly long lifespans of beings there that they are assured that they have only one lifetime before attaining buddhahood, and not because of any guarantee of immediate realization.
This is an interpretation, as is my assertion of the 8th bhūmi. But I would say you are right that not all bodhisattvas there are at a certain bhūmi immediately.
Then my assertion is not merely an interpretation, but is based in scripture and founded on reason, and also includes the fact that Buddha Amitabha is also Buddha Amitayus. Further, the details of the paths and stages are laid out very precisely by Asanga and so on.

The upaya card is must stand up to scripture and it must stand up to reason, otherwise one can say anything about any text that one likes. Your assertion does not stand up to scripture, since the eighteenth aspiration makes no mention whatsoever of these three minds, and further excludes those who have committed the five deeds of immediate retribution from birth in Sukhāvati, so not only does this assertion not stand up to scriptural analysis, it also does stand up to reason since if it were the case, there would be no arhats or bodhisattvas of inferior merit in Sukhāvati, unless of course you argue that they lack these three minds. But the eighteenth aspiration guarantees only that apart from those who commit the five deeds of immediate retribution, those who hear the name of Amitabha and have trust in him are granted a vision of Amitabha at death.
1. The three minds are underlined here,
(18) If, when I attain Buddhahood, the sentient beings of the ten quarters who, with sincere and entrusting heart, aspire to be born in my land and say my name even ten times, should not be born there, may I not attain the perfect enlightenment. Excluded are those who commit the five grave offenses and those who slander the right Dharma.
I.e. sincere mind, entrusting mind, and aspiring mind.

2. Not all who attain birth do so through the 18th vow. Also, the 18th vow does not produce birth due to merit.

3. Vision of Amitābha at death is not assured by the 18th vow.
This again is not certain, the term you've translated as heart is simply "citta," mind, "mama nāmadheyaṃ śrutvā prasannacittā māmanusmareyuḥ;" the adjective for citta is "prasanna," and it simply means "clear," so there are not three things here, but only two, "1) remembers me 2) with a clear mind."  Since there are only two things here, being lucid at the time of death and Buddhanusmṛti, recollection of the Buddha, arguably this is even easier than the requirement to have Shinjin. It still does not guarantee anything about realization. The word "sincere" and "entrusting" are nowhere to be found in the Sanskrit, or the Tibetan, for that matter.

Furthermore, it is not birth in that land to which they aspire, it is "ye sattvā anyeṣu lokadhātuṣvanuttarāyāṃ samyaksaṃbodhau cittamutpādya," is "Any sentient beings who generates the intent to unsurpassed full awakening in that lokadhātu, who hears/says my name, and remembers me with a clear mind , etc...." But there is no mention of ten times. "Say" rather than "hear", is Shinran's revision, however, there is an argument that can be made that śruta can be understood both ways, however the Chinese, if I recall, clearly has "hear," as Gomez confirms. Also in Gomez's translation of the Sangavarman recension, there is no ten times, this is a Shin addition to the text. So the intent here is that one must generate bodhicitta, aspirational bodhicitta, to attain unsurpassed full awakening in Sukhāvati. And if one has generated such bodhicitta, heard the name of Amitabha, and at the time of death has a clear mind and remembers him, these are the four conditions that will result in a vision of Amitabha and his retinue at the time of death.
There are too many different directions this is going in, but the exclusion of those who commit the five grave offenses is also an upāya—since they are allowed birth if they have the three minds as per the Contemplation Sūtra. The point however for now is not in the details, it is that certain things are meant to encourage and not be definitive statements.
The devil is always in the details, this is why these conversations happen between schools. One's schools "skillful means" is a wrong view according to another school.But since you brought up certain points, it is important to demonstrate where there are variances between schools that ostensibly both belong to Mahāyāna.
This does not mean they were accurately translated. In fact, in this early period, when Saṃghavarman was working, the third century CE, translation into Chinese was still in its infancy. Given that we have a Sanskrit version that the Tibetan reflects very well, it casts doubt on the accuracy of the Samghavarman's translation on this point. We would need to compare it with later translations of the same text to see if there is a correspondence with other recensions of the text.
I'd argue that his translations are pretty comprehensible compared to other translators. Something like the passage we are referring to is unlikely to have issues, whereas matters of basic terminology do end up being problematic. Since entire sections are present or missing in different versions, it is clearly less a translation issue and more of a recension issue.
There are a number of issues both in Samghavarmin's translations, and even more in the way Shinran has recast portions of Samghavarmin's translation to fit with his approach to Nembutsu.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, October 21st, 2020 at 8:30 PM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:


Astus said:
Historical concerns are not foreign to the various traditions, as each have stated a version of its past. Simply dismissing research into Buddhist history is an option of course, but that seems to be driven by fear of losing something.

Malcolm wrote:
Holding up western historiography as the pinnacle of human intellectual culture is basically racist. Thus kind of historiography erases indigenous traditions and sensibilities because it is predicated on dominance, as I mentioned before. So it is to be resisted because it is harmful to our tradition, since this kind of historiography insists that only one set of facts can be accepted.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, October 21st, 2020 at 8:19 PM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Who says they are fictional? On what basis are these claims for the fictionality of Chan lineages made? What assumptions drive such claims of inauthenticity?

Astus said:
From https://beingwithoutself.org/jeff/, a Rinzai Zen teacher and a professor at Hanazono University:

'Why, and from where, did the lineage-transmission legend arise? As Zen begins to take root in the West many Zennists naturally are attracted to this myth; some even naively believe it is literally true. They think that obtaining accouterment associated with lineage transmission somehow proves their Zen is authentic. Perhaps it just reflects a fundamental lack of awakening. A brief review of the historical development of the lineage-transmission legend will dispel some of the preposterous misconceptions surrounding it. 
In the early Tang dynasty, a good 1,300 years ago, not just Zen, but other Buddhist schools were under pressure to at least prove their legitimacy, at best gain position and prestige from the vying political powers. The Chinese T’ien-t’ai [Jp.: Tendai ] school was active in this before the nascent “Ch’an” or Zen school was. In spite of the “Separate transmission apart from scripture, Not depending on words and letters” rhetoric, as already mentioned, the “Zen school” had relied on sutras — The Lankavatara Sutra in the transmission from Bodhidharma to the second patriarch, and later The Diamond Sutra. But by the eighth century attempts were made to trace back directly to Shakamuni through a spiritual lineage-transmission.
In short, various “Zen groups” then created a number of conflicting lineage transmission charts to try and gain legitimacy. These lineage charts were based on imperial cult lineage and modified Confucian ancestor worship. A “Buddha-family Line” was created to try and show that the present possessor was a direct spiritual descendent of Shakamuni. By tracing oneself back directly to Shakamuni rather than just to statements in a sutra, one could come out superior to the other Buddhist schools, and to other “illegitimate” lineages within the Zen school. Just as the emperor was the ruler over this world, the Zen patriarch was to be considered the ruler over the spiritual realm.
What we now naively view as “genuine” transmission-lineages in Zen Buddhism are largely dependent on vagaries of history and social-political plays for power. The pivotal figure is Kataku Jinne [Ho-tsê Shên-hui 670-762]. In an attempt to make himself the seventh patriarch, Jinne mounted an attack on the so-called “northern school” of Zen and argued forcefully for the legitimacy of his “southern school.” Using the obscurity of his teacher, now universally known as “the sixth patriarch,” to advantage, he based his attack on a strict patriarchal succession that he created, based on imperial cult lineage. Although the actual teachings of the two schools were virtually the same, Jinne denounced the teachings of the northern school. One of the reasons for his success was that he raised a huge amount of money — for military purposes — by selling a great number of ordination certificates in state-sponsored ceremonies.'
( https://beingwithoutself.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/sourceofzenwhotransmitswhat.pdf )

Malcolm wrote:
The above argument is extremely silly and barely tenuous. The notion of lineages was carried from India to Tibet, China, and Central Asia by subcontinental Buddhists, principally by Vajrayana practitioners such as Amoghavajra, but also monastic abbots. Everyone seems to forget that in 845, a Taoist empower destroyed 200,000 Buddhist temples, and sent up millions of texts in flames. Relying on the sparsity of Dunhuang to prove anything definitive about Buddhist history in China shows a paucity of reason and is at best specious. A better argument for the survival of the southern school is that it was in the southern hinterlands and so escaped suppression.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, October 21st, 2020 at 8:08 PM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Who says they are fictional? On what basis are these claims for the fictionality of Chan lineages made? What assumptions drive such claims of inauthenticity?

Astus said:
It is based on documents available from various eras, many of them from the Dunhuang caves, that show how the list of Indian patriarchs developed to its current form through a century of changes, and there are also the developments of the first six patriarchs of China, and how eventually Huineng was accepted as the sixth. Just that is already enough to show how the very basis of an unbroken lineage from the Buddha is fictional.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, no. All it shows is an uneven recounting of a lineage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, October 21st, 2020 at 9:53 AM
Title: Re: Are there realms where beings can remember their past life(s)?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
The benefit of knowing past lives is repentance. Though it is unlikely we will know our past lives in this life, knowing our past deeds even from this life is important in developing the mind that aspires to birth:
Longer Sūtra said:
“If these sentient beings become aware of their past offenses and deeply repent with a desire to leave that place, then immediately as they wish, they will be able to go to the place of the Buddha of Immeasurable Life, where they can worship and make offerings to the Buddha. In addition, they will be able to visit all the other countless and innumerable Buddhas and cultivate various meritorious acts.

Zhen Li said:
Ajataśātru is an example of this. If you repent deeply from the deeds of this life, how much more so will you progress if you know of your negative deeds from countless prior lives? True knowledge of the evils of saṃsāra would require knowledge of past lives, so it is crucial for attaining Buddhahood to know more than one life.

Indeed, you can know your past lives by being born in the Amitābha's Pure Land, according to the fifth vow:
Longer Sūtra said:
(5) If, when I attain Buddhahood, the humans and devas in my land should not remember all their former lives, and thus be unable to know at least the events of the previous hundred thousand kotis of nayutas of kalpas, may I not attain the perfect enlightenment.

Malcolm wrote:
Let it be known that memory of past lives is a common attainment and not a characteristic of bodhi.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, October 21st, 2020 at 8:57 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
. It would be akin to approaching Native American traditions or something from this dry, modernist point of view, and then trying to practice them somehow, there's an absurdity there.

Malcolm wrote:
I have found that the perspectives on history given by indigenous writers a refreshing alternative to the faux empiricism of the academy. Of course this is tied to Buddhism in Tibet as an indigenous tradition and how it articulates itself to itself contra settler colonialism, both western and Chinese.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, October 21st, 2020 at 5:03 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
You can just look at the world of textual criticism of this sort ("Early Buddhism" is one of the best examples) to see that it quickly becomes a treasure hunt of sorts, and rarely brings people to actually practicing. To me, that is evidence enough that this approach is one that is only peripherally valuable to Dharma practice. Peripheral value like that has it's place, but once it becomes central it ceases to be Dharma practice.

Astus said:
I find https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/en/personen/analayo.html a great example of being both a scholar and practitioner, and actually using both areas to support the other.

Malcolm wrote:
One can be a Dharma scholar without adopting a Western-colonialist historical worldview.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, October 21st, 2020 at 5:03 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Astus said:
What might be a way to avoid the issue of lineage histories being fictional is a return to a more open view of Zen that is not apart from the sutras and other texts but rather co-existent with them.

Malcolm wrote:
Who says they are fictional? On what basis are these claims for the fictionality of Chan lineages made? What assumptions drive such claims of inauthenticity?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, October 21st, 2020 at 1:32 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:


Astus said:
Although there has been a significant growth of studies during the last few decades that showed how most of the important elements of Chan/Zen self-presentation as a "special transmission" is fabricated (and worse, fabricated with ill intentions), I have not seen anyone trying to answer that challenge, but rather things seem to continue as if such academic works did not exist at all. Although it might be that some in Japanese/Korean/Chinese academics try to work out a response. Not that it's anything new, after all, attacking the validity of the lineage was the tactics of both Tiantai and the various Chan factions.

Genjo Conan said:
What would an "answer to that challenge" look like, for you?  I'm a Soto Zen practitioner; assuming the scholarship is right, do I, what, pack it in and become an Episcopalian?  I have a graduate degree in history, so it's not like I'm against the practice, but I don't believe that scholarship ought to dictate faith.  They're separate spheres.

Malcolm wrote:
Moreover, notions of "history" are quite fluid.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, October 21st, 2020 at 12:31 AM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
What do the reasoning and arguments of buddhologists have to with buddhahood or the accounts of our own tradition? Why is it necessary to adopt a settler-colonialist perspective, which is foreign to Buddhadharma as a whole, as the measure by which we take stock of our own schools?

Astus said:
There is a shared field in the accounts of past events, where the traditional story says one thing, and historical documents say another, like in the case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moheyan. Furthermore, the very concept that one relies on a tradition - i.e. something transmitted to the present through past generations - invokes the assumption of validation through history. Only when authenticity is independent of the reliability of one's perception of history could it be said that verification of past events is irrelevant. Such freedom from historical constrains is said to be the quality of the Dharma, that it is readily visible (saṃdṛṣṭika) and timeless (akālika). The words of the Buddha are necessarily from the past transmitted to the present, therefore not free from historical circumstances, but the meaning delivered through them is immaterial, so while it is the meaning that matters more, it cannot be wholly removed from the words themselves.

Malcolm wrote:
If you wish to measure the validity of your practice through the erasures necessitated by adopting a settler colonialist perspective on Buddhist history, go ahead. But I think you will find that such histories are mainly concerned with coercion and the assertion of dominance and power over their subjects, and not really "facts." The very way you posed the question shows this, "but at least some level of recognition of the need to be able to communicate Buddhism on the highest levels of human intellectual culture of our times would be beneficial."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, October 21st, 2020 at 12:14 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment in a Pure Land
Content:



PadmaVonSamba said:
If that is correct, then, if an infinite Buddha resides in a Buddha realm, the Buddha realm must also be infinite.

Malcolm wrote:
Incorrect.

PadmaVonSamba said:
So, to use an analogy, the Buddha of infinite light could be like a lighthouse on an island, whose light shines everywhere, but whose island has limited area?

Malcolm wrote:
Amitabha is a nirmāṇakāya, with respect to Sukhāvati. His identification of being the dharmakāya is a Vajrayāna doctrine, connected with the
lotus buddhafamily of Guru Rinpoche: Amitabha is considered to be the dharmakāya; Avalokiteśvara is considered to be the sambhogakāya; and Guru Rinpoche is considered to be the nirmāṇakāya. But this is inapplicable to this discussion, since Amitabha being discussed here is the nirmāṇakāya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, October 21st, 2020 at 12:11 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment in a Pure Land
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Dharmākara is a time-delimited instantiation of the dharmakāya—as are the 48 Vows. They are created, whereas the fulfilled land is not.

Malcolm wrote:
Dharmakara was a bodhisattva on the paths and stages, not a buddha.

Zhen Li said:
Where the Japanese Pure Land sects do differ from others is in seeing the definitive practice as the fulfilment of the 18th Vow. But since it is effected by non-calculation and non-working, it is a non-practice practice. It's realisation of buddha-nature without accumulation of merits and surpassing sūtric and tantric methods.

Malcolm wrote:
Such a view has no support in the Indian scriptures upon which you rely.

Zhen Li said:
The Ghanavyūha does not feature in Japanese Pure Land so I can't say anything from a traditional perspective.

Malcolm wrote:
The Ghanavyūha Sūtra is in the Chinese canon.

"the fulfilled land."

I assume this is your translation of sambhogakāya-buddhakṣetra, sambhogakāya buddhafield.


Zhen Li said:
But to summarize, there is no justification at all in commonly accepted scriptures for your two central claims: 1) "[Y]ou are learning from the Dharmakāya itself;" 2)"[It] is instantaneous and beyond the need for methods that can be calculated in the normal sense of duration and ascension."

Malcolm wrote:
You too have stated that dharmakāya emanates sambhogakāya and that emanates nirmāṇakāya, and that these are distinct and yet without a difference, thus you are contradicting your first objection. [/quote]

This is a misrepresentation of my statement, unless by "dharmakāya as compassion," you are actually referring the rūpakāyas, in which case there is a difference between the three kāyas in terms of cause, the dharmakāya arises out of the accumulation of gnosis, the rūpakāya out of the accumulation of merit.


Zhen Li said:
On the other hand, attaining birth having not harboured doubt is the attainment of buddhahood and nirvāṇa, this is because it is the realisation of suchness and the dharmakāya as suchness in fulfilment of the 11th Vow.

Malcolm wrote:
This is uncertain. The eleventh aspiration only assures following a proper path, and nothing more.

Zhen Li said:
This is quite simple. As you stated, the dharmakāya emanates sambhogakāya, etc. Without the dharmakāya, Amitābha would not be a Buddha and Sukhāvatī could not be established.

Malcolm wrote:
Are you asserting then that the Sahāloka is nondual with the dharmakāya? If so, then all the benefits of Sukhavati should apply in the Sahāloka, because if you assert that Amitabha is the dharmakāya, then you must assert all buddhas are the dharmakāya, and therefore all buddhafields of all buddhas are nondual with the dharmakāya, whether they are so called pure or impure buddhafields.

Thus, the only reason there is a difference between the Sahāloka and Sukhāvati is that the aspirations of Śākyamuni and Amitabha while on the path were different, accounting for differences in their respective buddhafields. The same applies to Amoghasiddhi's buddhafield, Bhaisajyaguru's buddhafield and so on. This means these nirmāṇakāya buddhafields are only compounded phenomena, not uncompounded.

Zhen Li said:
Moreover, if the dharmakāya is limited in the way you are suggesting, then you are asserting that the dharmakāya is separate from this world, its buddhas, and is not equal to suchness. This is not Mahāyāna, but perhaps you are asserting a different doctrine.

Malcolm wrote:
The question is not the limitations of the dharmakāya, the question is the limitations of the nirmāṇakāya, since the latter appears in various realms to various beings in those realms as a result of their karma, unlike the dharmakāya, which does not appear to sentient beings at all, not even bodhisattvas on the tenth bhumi.

Zhen Li said:
As I understand, perception of the dharmakāya comes about with the attainment of the dharmakāya, realisation of suchness, nirvāṇa, and buddhahood. This is not the same as attainment of the recompensed land as effected by the 48 Vows, but it is claimed in the East Asian Pure Land tradition that the 18th vow in particular does enable one to attain the fulfilled land (Ghanavyūha if you will), but this is only because it is through the Buddha's power. Anyway, beings born in Sukhāvatī as the recompensed land are on the stage of irreversibility, they are at least on the 8th Bhūmi.

Malcolm wrote:
There are levels of irreversibility on each path. For example, someone on the path of accumulation reaches a state of irreversible generation of bodhicitta; someone on the path of application reaches a state of patience where they can no longer fall into lower realms, etc. It is quite impossible for beings to attain the eighth bodhisattva stage merely through birth in Sukhāvati. There is no justification in the sūtra for this position whatsoever. This also ignores the presence of srāvakas of various levels of attainment in Sukhāvati, bodhisattvas of inferior merit, and so on. There is also no statement in any Sukhāvati sūtra or its like which guarantees that one will be born as a eighth stage bodhisattva. Instread, it is due to the incredibly long lifespans of beings there that they are assured that they have only one lifetime before attaining buddhahood, and not because of any guarantee of immediate realization.

Zhen Li said:
The Buddha says different things on different occasions and to people with different conditions. Upāya are meant to encourage right action. Whether we take this literally or as an upāya, the point is clear: attain the three minds of the 18th Vow, attain birth in the first rank of the first grade, become irreversible.

Malcolm wrote:
The upaya card is must stand up to scripture and it must stand up to reason, otherwise one can say anything about any text that one likes. Your assertion does not stand up to scripture, since the eighteenth aspiration makes no mention whatsoever of these three minds, and further excludes those who have committed the five deeds of immediate retribution from birth in Sukhāvati, so not only does this assertion not stand up to scriptural analysis, it also does stand up to reason since if it were the case, there would be no arhats or bodhisattvas of inferior merit in Sukhāvati, unless of course you argue that they lack these three minds. But the eighteenth aspiration guarantees only that apart from those who commit the five deeds of immediate retribution, those who hear the name of Amitabha and have trust in him are granted a vision of Amitabha at death.

Zhen Li said:
This is the Tibetan Buddhism forum, so I won't push the translations of other traditions here but the Chinese recensions are older.

Malcolm wrote:
This does not mean they were accurately translated. In fact, in this early period, when Saṃghavarman was working, the third century CE, translation into Chinese was still in its infancy. Given that we have a Sanskrit version that the Tibetan reflects very well, it casts doubt on the accuracy of the Samghavarman's translation on this point. We would need to compare it with later translations of the same text to see if there is a correspondence with other recensions of the text.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, October 20th, 2020 at 11:03 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment in a Pure Land
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
You can’t fit an infinite Buddha within a finite space.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct.

PadmaVonSamba said:
If that is correct, then, if an infinite Buddha resides in a Buddha realm, the Buddha realm must also be infinite.

Malcolm wrote:
Incorrect.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, October 20th, 2020 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: Academic critiques and slandering the dharma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Western, settler-colonialist,  historical perspective... I prefer the indigenous perspectives, which are many, varied, and don’t necessarily accept this idea of “earlier“ and “later” texts.

Astus said:
Wouldn't that result in an unnecessary isolation from the reasoning and arguments of modern scholarship in favour of other arguments that also claim to be based on reason? Just as it's been the practice of past teachers to address and respond to the views and doctrines of their own times, shouldn't that be followed today as well, especially in the field of Buddhist studies? Of course, this is not to say that everyone should occupy themselves with such matters, but at least some level of recognition of the need to be able to communicate Buddhism on the highest levels of human intellectual culture of our times would be beneficial.

Malcolm wrote:
What do the reasoning and arguments of buddhologists have to with buddhahood or the accounts of our own tradition? Why is it necessary to adopt a settler-colonialist perspective, which is foreign to Buddhadharma as a whole, as the measure by which we take stock of our own schools?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, October 20th, 2020 at 7:35 PM
Title: Re: Question on rebirth - point of no recollection
Content:
Karatzo said:
I also found this article which has some good points on the theory of rebirth and its problems.

http://www.jayarava.org/texts/Some-Problems-With-Rebirth.pdf

Malcolm wrote:
Jayarava is not a very reliable resource.

Try this:

https://wisdomexperience.org/product/rebirth-early-buddhism-and-current-research/


