﻿Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 7:59 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In the end, why do we give a flying f*&k about any of this? The Buddha was very clear: outside of his Dharmavinaya, the four kinds of āryas— stream entrants, once returners, never returners, and arhats— do not exist.

Spelare said:
Because we interact with non-Buddhists on a daily basis.  So, we have at least three options:

a) we don't talk to them about Dharma

Malcolm wrote:
This is the best thing, unless they ask.


Spelare said:
b) we talk about it from the perspective of not understanding the profundity of their tradition

Malcolm wrote:
Are other traditions profound? How so? How do they lead to something other than higher birth in samsara?

Spelare said:
c) We've done our homework, and can recognize what is genuinely similar and what is non-negotiably different

By studying these other doctrines, we also clarify to ourselves what is truly distinctive about Buddhism and its vehicles.

Malcolm wrote:
The only thing similar between Buddhadharma and other traditions is that we all emphasize compassion; but even here, the compassion of other traditions is limited in its scope.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 7:12 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
I had thought the relevance of CTR saying that the "concept of the nonexistence of the divinity principle outside of one's existence" was understood "fully and completely" by at least some Christians would be obvious, considering that the topic of this thread is the following quote:

Losal Samten said:
Cool, fair enough. I would disagree that it would be taken as a given though, even by former insiders; for some reason the mystical aspects aren't widely taught about in Catholic churches at least here in the UK, it's up to oneself to discover that. I don't know if the Orthodox churches/countries are  better, since they have a greater tradition of institutionalised mysticism.

Malcolm wrote:
In the end, why do we give a flying f*&k about any of this? The Buddha was very clear: outside of his Dharmavinaya, the four kinds of āryas— stream entrants, once returners, never returners, and arhats— do not exist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 7:07 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
The essence of Buddhist teaching is Dzogchen, which is the final teaching of the Buddha Shakyamuni. Through Dzogchen we can really understand what George is and we don’t have to worry if there is a George or not. George always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody.”


Malcolm wrote:
Because, you know, he has also said the basis was "George."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 6:53 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:


Spelare said:
Fair enough.  Would it, however, be undue speculation to suppose that some non-Buddhists like Eckhart encountered the ālaya-vijñāna and then tried to articulate their experience in theistic language?  I thought that's what thousands of Hindus are supposed to have been doing all these years.

Malcolm wrote:
The ālaya-vijñāna is not an object of consciousness. The basic error nonbuddhist make is that they hold consciousness, whether dualistic like the Samkhya, or nondually like Advaita, to be permanent, unconditioned and so on. This is Eckhart's flaw as well. They do this because they do not have the view of dependent origination.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 6:27 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Ignorance also has a cause in Dzogchen. There are no first causes. And even Samantabhadra possessed ignorance.

Malcom said:
There is no first cause in Buddhadharma, including Dzogchen.

Spelare said:
Suppose we aren't speaking of the entire cosmos, but of the dualistic samsaric perception of an individual.  I thought that arose due to ignorance.  Or is there a sense in which that is not accurate to say in Dzogchen?

I know that samsara is said elsewhere to be beginningless.  I've never been certain how to reconcile those accounts.  I usually do so in a general way with the concepts of timelessness and transcendence of cause-and-effect, but I'd like to do so more precisely.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 6:13 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You are engaged in a top down reading.

Losal Samten said:
Divine light, uncreated, nonconceptual, etc. is standard talk regards to tirthika metaphysics and mysticisms.

Spelare said:
Pretty remarkable for a medieval German, though, isn't it?

But Eckhart went further in deconstructing the very idea of God.  He talked about something called "the essence of God":

Eckhart, Sermon 87 said:
While I yet stood in my first cause, I had no God and was my own cause: then I wanted nothing and desired nothing, for I was bare being and the knower of myself in the enjoyment of truth.  Then I wanted myself and wanted no other thing: what I wanted I was and what I was I wanted, and thus I was free of God and all things.  But when I left my free will behind and received my created being, then I had a God. For before there were creatures, God was not 'God': He was That which He was.  But when creatures came into existence and received their created being, then God was not 'God' in Himself—He was 'God' in creatures.

Therefore I pray to God to make me free of God, for my essential being is above God, taking God as the origin of creatures.  For in that essence of God in which God is above being and distinction, there I was myself and knew myself so as to make this man. Therefore I am my own cause according to my essence, which is eternal, and not according to my becoming, which is temporal.  Therefore I am unborn, and according to my unborn mode I can never die.  According to my unborn mode I have eternally been, am now, and shall eternally remain.  That which I am by virtue of birth must die and perish, for it is mortal, and so must perish with time.  In my birth all things were born, and I was the cause of myself and all things: and if I had so willed it, I would not have been, and all things would not have been.  If I were not, God would not be either. I am the cause of God's being God: if I were not, then God would not be God. But you do not need to know this.

Spelare said:
Now you can see why he was investigated for heresy by the Papal authorities!  That quotation sounds totally arrogant and presumptuous if you read it as simply a delusional human being.  But if the "I" speaking there is the same "I" that in our own tradition's scriptures says "I am primordial self-originating wisdom.  I am the primordial source of all phenomena.  I am the all-creating king, pure perfect presence," what he has said is the opposite of arrogance or presumption.

The story of an "I" reposing in its first cause and then giving rise to creation sounds very much like the accounts we've heard of dualistic samsaric experience arising through non-recognition and the arising of false knowledge on the basis of ignorance.  In fact, I would suggest that that is what Eckhart is trying to get at.  But he phrases it in the language of "creation" that was known to everyone in his culture the same way that Buddhist accounts of how dualistic consciousness arises would be familiar to Buddhists.  Eckhart saw the need to go back to the ground from which all conceptual proliferation arises.

Does he have to have fully realized and integrated that awakening in order for us to suspect he had a genuine glimpse?  Of course we won't find Buddhist words coming out of his mouth, because he was unacquainted with Buddhism.  However, if we take seriously the teaching that all sentient beings have buddha-nature . . . very possible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 6:02 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:
Losal Samten said:
Divine light, uncreated, nonconceptual, etc. is standard talk regards to tirthika metaphysics and mysticisms.

Spelare said:
Pretty remarkable for a medieval German, though, isn't it?

But Eckhart went further in deconstructing the very idea of God.  He talked about something called "the essence of God":

Eckhart, Sermon 87 said:
While I yet stood in my first cause, I had no God and was my own cause: then I wanted nothing and desired nothing, for I was bare being and the knower of myself in the enjoyment of truth.  Then I wanted myself and wanted no other thing: what I wanted I was and what I was I wanted, and thus I was free of God and all things.  But when I left my free will behind and received my created being, then I had a God. For before there were creatures, God was not 'God': He was That which He was.  But when creatures came into existence and received their created being, then God was not 'God' in Himself—He was 'God' in creatures.

Therefore I pray to God to make me free of God, for my essential being is above God, taking God as the origin of creatures.  For in that essence of God in which God is above being and distinction, there I was myself and knew myself so as to make this man. Therefore I am my own cause according to my essence, which is eternal, and not according to my becoming, which is temporal.  Therefore I am unborn, and according to my unborn mode I can never die.  According to my unborn mode I have eternally been, am now, and shall eternally remain.  That which I am by virtue of birth must die and perish, for it is mortal, and so must perish with time.  In my birth all things were born, and I was the cause of myself and all things: and if I had so willed it, I would not have been, and all things would not have been.  If I were not, God would not be either. I am the cause of God's being God: if I were not, then God would not be God. But you do not need to know this.

Spelare said:
Now you can see why he was investigated for heresy by the Papal authorities!  That quotation sounds totally arrogant and presumptuous if you read it as simply a delusional human being.  But if the "I" speaking there is the same "I" that in our own tradition's scriptures says "I am primordial self-originating wisdom.  I am the primordial source of all phenomena.  I am the all-creating king, pure perfect presence," what he has said is the opposite of arrogance or presumption.

The story of an "I" reposing in its first cause and then giving rise to creation sounds very much like the accounts we've heard of dualistic samsaric experience arising through non-recognition and the arising of false knowledge on the basis of ignorance.  In fact, I would suggest that that is what Eckhart is trying to get at.  But he phrases it in the language of "creation" that was known to everyone in his culture the same way that Buddhist accounts of how dualistic consciousness arises would be familiar to Buddhists.  Eckhart saw the need to go back to the ground from which all conceptual proliferation arises.

Does he have to have fully realized and integrated that awakening in order for us to suspect he had a genuine glimpse?  Of course we won't find Buddhist words coming out of his mouth, because he was unacquainted with Buddhism.  However, if we take seriously the teaching that all sentient beings have buddha-nature . . . very possible.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no first cause in Buddhadharma, including Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 5:58 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This business about the soul”s spark is exactly the atman Buddha refuted. Surprised you don’t get that. There is no dependent origination here, no emptiness, etc, just an assertion of an unconditioned substance called a soul.

Spelare said:
Here is an example of what I am talking about.  If you read this, don't only scan for specific words that prove this author didn't realize the nature of mind (though you are, of course, free to do that).  Try to get a sense of what state he might be trying to communicate to his audience through the skillful means of the Biblical and Greco-Roman philosophical literature they would have been familiar with:

Meister Eckhart, Sermon 60 said:
I have sometimes spoken of a light that is in the soul, which is uncreated and uncreatable.  I continually touch on this light in my sermons: it is the light which lays straight hold of God, unveiled and bare, as He is in Himself, that is, it catches Him in the act of begetting.  So I can truly say that this light is far more at one with God than it is with any of the powers with which it has unity of being.  For you should know, this light is no nobler in my soul's essence than the humblest, or the grossest of my powers, such as hearing or sight or any other power which is subject to hunger or thirst, cold or heat, and that is because being is indivisible.  And so, if we consider the powers of the soul in their being, they are all one and equally noble: but if we take them in their functions, one is much higher and nobler than the other.

Therefore I say, if a man turns away from self and from all created things, then—to the extent that you do this—you will attain to oneness and blessedness in your soul's spark, which time and place never touched.  This spark is opposed to all creatures: it wants nothing but God, naked, just as He is. It is not satisfied with the Father or the Son or the Holy Ghost, or all three Persons so far as they preserve their several properties. I declare in truth, this light would not be satisfied with the unity of the whole fertility of the divine nature.  In fact I will say still more, which sounds even stranger: I declare in all truth, by the eternal and everlasting truth, that this light is not content with the simple changeless divine being which neither gives nor takes:

rather it seeks to know whence this being comes, it wants to get into its simple ground, into the silent desert into which no distinction ever peeped, of Father, Son or Holy Ghost. In the inmost part, where none is at home, there that light finds satisfaction, and there it is more one than it is in itself: for this ground is an impartible stillness, motionless in itself, and by this immobility all things are moved, and all those receive life that live of themselves, being endowed with reason.  That we may thus live rationally, may the eternal truth of which I have spoken help us.  Amen.

Spelare said:
In this passage, he is not using the words "God," "soul," "reason," "eternity," or even "truth" according to the commonly understood definitions of his own time (or ours).  They seem to have been the nearest approximations he hoped would be intelligible to his audience.  And often they still didn't understand, as he often comments in his writings!  Eckhart sought the ground prior to God, prior to being, and he sought it in himself, not in a distant separate entity above the sky.  Clearly, he had some recognition, even if we cannot be certain how to classify it.  Of course, that might be an interesting exercise, but I think his poetic evocation was intended to awaken his listeners.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 3:12 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:
Spelare said:
It should not be in the least surprising if high-aptitude individuals in the non-Buddhist world stumbled upon the ground or basis, in spite of the surrounding theistic mainstream that misconstrued it as a God who is a separate, transcendent being (in three persons in its Christian flavor).


dzogchungpa said:
Jesus himself may have been one such individual

Malcolm wrote:
We have already established you will believe anything.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 3:12 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:
Spelare said:
It should not be in the least surprising if high-aptitude individuals in the non-Buddhist world stumbled upon the ground or basis

Malcolm wrote:
It would be very surprising, since there is no evidence anyone in the non-buddhist world has correctly realized the nature of their own minds.  Any assertion to the contrary is mere speculation, which cannot be confirmed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 2:16 AM
Title: Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Trump will be able to manipulate class to his advantage until it becomes a central part of the political conversation on the left again.

Rick said:
Makes sense. So maybe one can see The Donald as a kind of necessary, if painful, course correction? A bit of:

See what happens when we let social/cultural/financial inequity go (relatively) unchecked!

Johnny Dangerous said:
I don't know, I try not to assign emotional values to events like these. I think that his presidency is revealing things we would take a close look at, if we are smart. So far though, people on the left appear to not be smart, and it is only  a small, less vocal minority who take the view that Trump is a wake up call..the mainstream still just wants to focus on him and how awful he is, without cleaning up their own backyard. Until that happens, I feel like Trumpism is here to stay.

Malcolm wrote:
Face it Trump is a fascist, and wants to be Dear Leader for life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 15th, 2018 at 2:07 AM
Title: Re: Trump's Movement to Unilateralism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This is all just worldly bullshit, a result of karma, a product of an endless cycle of attachment and aversion. That said, the GOP is no friend of Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, May 14th, 2018 at 9:29 AM
Title: Re: If the Mahayana Sutras were not spoken by the Buddha what authority do they hold?
Content:
krodha said:
In Mahāyāna the tathāgata is not considered to be name and form, therefore the word of the Buddha is not tied to the statements of any specific historical figure.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, May 14th, 2018 at 1:22 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:
emaho said:
God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody.
What is ChNN referring to with "base" here? I mean, which Tibetan term corresponds to it?

Malcolm wrote:
Gzhi, not kun gzhi.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, May 14th, 2018 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?
Content:
emaho said:
Not sure if I'm getting your point here, Karma_Yeshe. What I said was that some, or actually quite a few Christian Theologians have an understanding of God that is compatible with Buddhist teachings about the alaya / kun gzhi. If you say that some others don't, OK, it doesn't really contradict me, does it? And if you're implying their view isn't relevant, yeah well, that's your opinion. Comparing them to Stephen Batchelor is just polemics, not an argument.

Malcolm wrote:
With respect to Dzogchen, the alaya is the fundamental ignorance. Otherwise, the alaya is not a transpwrsonal consciousness, it is personal. There is no xtian theology that is compatible with Buddha’s teaching.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, May 12th, 2018 at 7:54 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana and War
Content:
MiphamFan said:
What if you think a historical war was a necessary evil to prevent a greater one, such as supporting the WW2 allies?

Malcolm wrote:
I refer you to the Buddha on this point.

"When a warrior strives & exerts himself in battle, his mind is already seized, debased, & misdirected by the thought: 'May these beings be struck down or slaughtered or annihilated or destroyed. May they not exist': If others then strike him down & slay him while he is thus striving & exerting himself in battle, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the hell called the realm of those slain in battle. But if he holds such a view as this: 'When a warrior strives & exerts himself in battle, if others then strike him down & slay him while he is striving & exerting himself in battle, then with the breakup of the body, after death, he is reborn in the company of devas slain in battle,' that is his wrong view. Now, there are two destinations for a person with wrong view, I tell you: either hell or the animal womb."

— SN 42.3


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, May 12th, 2018 at 7:27 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana and War
Content:





Javierfv1212 said:
It says united with the intent to kill but if one is not united in their intent to kill but merely wishes to heal then you are not affected by their karma. Moreover, the last part proves my point that one can be in an army and not share their karma as long as one has the resolution "Even in order to save my life, I shall not kill a living being."

Malcolm wrote:
Did you have a point to prove?

Javierfv1212 said:
That you can be part of an army and keep your precepts / not be affected by their karma.

Malcolm wrote:
Being a soldier, from the beginning, is a wrong livelihood. Beyond that, there are not many people who join an army without intending to be engaged in some form of activity that involves killing sentient beings. Even conscripts are often patriotic, and are willing to shoot where they are told to aim. Your point is an exception that proves the rule, in other words.  Further, you cannot take sides in a war and maintain your precepts, it is impossible. Thus, your point is pointless.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, May 12th, 2018 at 7:22 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana and War
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Abhidharmakośabhaṣya, chapter 4, where the question of a soldier's karma is discussed.
When many persons are united with the intention to kill, either in
war, or in the hunt, or in banditry, who is guilty of murder, if only one of
them kills?
72c-d As soldiers, etc., concur in the realization of the same
effect, all are as guilty as the one who kills.
Having a common goal, all are guilty exaaly as he who among them
kills, for all mutually incite one another, not through speech, but by the
very f aa that they are united together in order to kill
But is the person who has been constrained through force to join the
army also guilty?
Evidently so, unless he has formed the resolution, "Even in order to
save my life, I shall not kill a living being."

Javierfv1212 said:
It says united with the intent to kill but if one is not united in their intent to kill but merely wishes to heal then you are not affected by their karma. Moreover, the last part proves my point that one can be in an army and not share their karma as long as one has the resolution "Even in order to save my life, I shall not kill a living being."

Malcolm wrote:
Did you have a point to prove? In fact you agree with what I said, but instead of asking for a clarification, you took an antagonistic position. Taking sides in a war means of approving of the killing that occurs, either out of malice, greed, or ignorance.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, May 12th, 2018 at 7:03 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana and War
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Karma is volition, and what proceeds from volition. That's it.

Javierfv1212 said:
Exactly, and if your volition is to heal others in a battlefield, for example, it doesn't matter that you're technically part of an armed forces.

Malcolm wrote:
Unless you support the side you are on, that's the point of not taking sides. That is why I said you had not understood my post.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, May 12th, 2018 at 6:54 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana and War
Content:



Javierfv1212 said:
That's seems awfully excessive, source?

Malcolm wrote:
Abhidharmakośabhaṣya, chapter 4, where the question of a soldier's karma is discussed.

Javierfv1212 said:
Also, what do you mean by 'support'? If by support you mean intentionally approve of the killing being done by one side, then perhaps that would accrue bad karma, but if you mean just serving in the military for a non combat role like the ones I mention above such as medic with the sole intention of helping to relieve suffering, I don't see how that would lead to bad karma.

Malcolm wrote:
Even you are a civilian, for example, an accountant with no combat role at all, if you support a war, you also gain the same negative karma.


Javierfv1212 said:
No. One is obligated to follow the laws of the country in which one lives. One has to pay taxes, but one may dissent from the purpose for which they are being used.
Your taxes are still being used for war, even if you don't want them to be. You aren't intentionally supporting the war, but you are supporting it materially whether you like it or not, that was my point.

Malcolm wrote:
Karma is volition, and what proceeds from volition. That's it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, May 12th, 2018 at 6:25 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana and War
Content:



Javierfv1212 said:
So is paying your taxes

Virgo said:
Only if you are a Republican.

Kevin...

Javierfv1212 said:
If you pay taxes in any state currently conducting military actions, you are indirectly supporting war with those taxes.

Malcolm wrote:
No. One is obligated to follow the laws of the country in which one lives. One has to pay taxes, but one may dissent from the purpose for which they are being used.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, May 12th, 2018 at 6:21 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana and War
Content:
Javierfv1212 said:
Ultimately you are correct of course, but this does not invalidate what I said, these options are open for Buddhists in wartime to help beings on a relative level.

Malcolm wrote:
You still did not understand. Picking sides is what causes one to go to lower realms.

Javierfv1212 said:
What are you basing this on, if I may ask?

Also, in many cases, you don't "pick sides", a war comes to your part of the world and you just have to respond, in many cases, its impossible for someone not to be already identified with a certain ethnic or national group by merely being born in it, speaking a language, etc. If one can do good by being a medic, providing relief for others etc in a military organization, then there is nothing wrong with this.

If one keeps a mind of bodhicitta towards all beings, it doesn't matter what "side" one happens to be on really.

Malcolm wrote:
If you support one side in a war, you accrue all the negative karma of all people who support the killing in that war. It does not matter if you personally never fire a shot.

If you are there merely to treat the wounded of either side, that’s different.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, May 12th, 2018 at 3:38 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana and War
Content:
Javierfv1212 said:
Ultimately you are correct of course, but this does not invalidate what I said, these options are open for Buddhists in wartime to help beings on a relative level.

Malcolm wrote:
You still did not understand. Picking sides is what causes one to go to lower realms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, May 12th, 2018 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana and War
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You did not understand my statement. Read it again.
It depends on your understanding the real situation of samsara. If you don't understand— you join in, pick sides, and go to three lower realms. This is called having a one-lifetime view.

Javierfv1212 said:
I'd like to add that its not as black and white as this makes it sound. That is, there are many things a bodhisattva can do during a war besides sit there that does not break the precepts or the injuction to right livelihood.

In fact, any role in a military, government agency or NGO which helps people during a war is admissible for a bodhisattva as long as it does not involve killing, convincing others to kill or lying (for example propaganda and so on) and dealing with weapons (weapons manufacture, research, munitions management, etc).

IMO any of the following roles in the armed forces would be admissible as long as one keeps the precepts: field medic, doctor, cook, chaplain, therapist, disaster relief, etc.

There are probably several roles which are pretty grey area, like transportation (where in some cases you might have to transport weapons and munitions) which I would steer clear from.

And of course one can work for NGOs providing relief and so on.

Even if one is somehow put in a combat role due to circumstances outside of one's control (this is not as rare historically as one might imagine, forced conscription and so on), one could still keep the precepts, just aim and shoot over the heads of the enemy with no intention to harm. Its still a really difficult position to be in of course. Hopefully things don't get that bad in my lifetime that I am forced into a position like this, but it has happened historically (Germany and Soviet Union during WW2 is one example).

Due to these possibilities, bodhisattvas in states which have conscription laws should research the status of Conscientious objectors in their countries and understand how the law works, should the need arise to claim such status.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, May 11th, 2018 at 12:30 AM
Title: Re: "Ripening" empowerment = ?
Content:
Palzang Jangchub said:
What precisely is being referred to when an initiation is listed as a "ripening" empowerment?

Would this be rendered back into Sanskrit properly as vipāka abhiśeka?  The term in Tibetan seems to be smin byed kyi dbang (see attachment ).


Screenshot_20180510-005447.jpg


By that definition, aren't all initiations considered ripening empowerments, or am i missing something?  Are there empowerments that don't ripen as such, but perform some other function?

Incidentally, doesn't this mean that Mindrolling monastery is literally "the Island of Ripening and Liberating" or "the Island of Maturation and Liberation"?

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on school, but no school considers a jenang a ripening empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, May 10th, 2018 at 8:58 AM
Title: Re: Did the 84 mahasiddhas authorize others to teach?
Content:
Josef said:
This notion of explicit permission is something that seems to mostly apply to non-Tibetan practitioners.
If one was living in a valley in the Himalaya's, had received empowerment, instructions, and applied the practices diligently, there would be nobody questioning whether or not said individual could "teach" or transmit the practices they have a lineage connection to.

I find it extremely unlikely that the Mahasiddhas had some kind of certificate or explicit permission to benefit beings through offering them dharma. The notion is a bit silly.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, they had to renew their teaching license every five years with the BRUB (Board of Really Uptight Buddhists).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, May 9th, 2018 at 9:32 AM
Title: Re: According to the Prasangika, what is wrong with statement that the two truths are two ways of looking at one object?
Content:
Jeff H said:
I think you need to share more of Hopkins’ context because, on the surface, what you are saying sounds correct. Perhaps he is making a different point.

prsvrnc said:
I wasn't able to attach a picture of the page but on pages 16 and 17 it lists out 32 positions that are refuted in the book.  He prefaces the list by saying that "Almost all contemporary renderings of Madhyamika run contrary to Ge-luk-ba authors such as Jam-yang-shay-ba on many central points.  It should be clear by the end of this book that the traditional interpretation given here does not agree with, and in fact refuges, all of the following positions with respect to Prasangika-Madhyamika..."

#9:  The two truths are two ways of viewing the same object.

So I guess that means #9 is a position that I might not be able to find support for elsewhere, outside of Jam-yang-shay-ba (among others) for instance.

Malcolm wrote:
This directly contradicts Chandrakirti, "All entities have two natures, one false, the other true."


So how can it be Prasanga at all?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, May 9th, 2018 at 4:04 AM
Title: Re: According to the Prasangika, what is wrong with statement that the two truths are two ways of looking at one object?
Content:



Queequeg said:
What does that mean?

Malcolm wrote:
An ultimate truth is an ultimately veridical cognition. Among the two kinds of relative truth, both are degrees of false cognitions: true relative truth is a cognition which is conventionally unmistaken but is mistaken about the true nature if it's object; a false relative truth is completely mistaken.

Queequeg said:
Is cognition the same or different than view? Let me know if I need to flesh that question out a little more.

Malcolm wrote:
A false view is a false cognition. A correct view is a correct cognition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, May 9th, 2018 at 3:48 AM
Title: Re: According to the Prasangika, what is wrong with statement that the two truths are two ways of looking at one object?
Content:



Queequeg said:
Right. It sounds like the confusion in the original question is that: two truths = two views (of the same object). Truth is not a view. The nominal two truths are descriptions of the way things are, not views.

Malcolm wrote:
The two truths (satyas) are cognitions, actually.

Queequeg said:
What does that mean?

Malcolm wrote:
An ultimate truth is an ultimately veridical cognition. Among the two kinds of relative truth, both are degrees of false cognitions: true relative truth is a cognition which is conventionally unmistaken but is mistaken about the true nature if it's object; a false relative truth is completely mistaken.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, May 9th, 2018 at 3:14 AM
Title: Re: According to the Prasangika, what is wrong with statement that the two truths are two ways of looking at one object?
Content:
kalden yungdrung said:
Queequeg wrote:
Object is illusory, so how can there really be any views, let alone two or more views of the same object.
Guess we have here the relative and ultimate truth.

Queequeg said:
Right. It sounds like the confusion in the original question is that: two truths = two views (of the same object). Truth is not a view. The nominal two truths are descriptions of the way things are, not views.

Malcolm wrote:
The two truths (satyas) are cognitions, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, May 3rd, 2018 at 3:55 AM
Title: Re: Padmasambhava Visualization?
Content:
Tenma said:
How does one visualize a universally enormous Padmamsabhava inside a tiny palace the size of a sesame seed?  I can visualize a tiny Padmasmabhava in a huge palace, but not vice versa.  Could someone please help in this visualization?

Malcolm wrote:
Same way you visualize s universe in an atom


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 30th, 2018 at 9:19 PM
Title: Re: Illusion in Dzogchen
Content:
Lukeinaz said:
"In non dual contemplation there is neither experience or experiencer.  This itself is real experience."

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and this is just the message of the Prajñapāramitā Sūtras, since of course, the meaning of the Great Perfection is exactly the same as the Prajñapāramitā Sūtras, the only difference is the method of arriving at that meaning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 29th, 2018 at 9:11 PM
Title: Re: Garchen Rinpoche Chakrasamvara Empowerment & Ganges Mahamudra
Content:
Mantrik said:
Is it normal in the Kagyu to give the Vajrayogini empowerment first?

In Gelugpa the Heruka empowerment usually precedes the Vajrayogini in HYT.

Lhasa said:
I don't know the answer to your question, but in information I read about this Vajrayogini empowerment, it is necessary in order to practice Powa.  Vajrayogini is the deity one transforms into during the practice.  And they taught Powa in the days after this empowerment.

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on the phowa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 29th, 2018 at 8:58 PM
Title: Re: Fantasy
Content:
beer said:
I havent seen to many people exploring the issue I raised let alone offering any solutions.

Malcolm wrote:
Most likely, then, you can assume that is because inferring from a particular instance to a general population is a fallacy. That is what racists do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 29th, 2018 at 9:04 AM
Title: Re: Fantasy
Content:



The Cicada said:
Q-Raj does have a point. Why don't Buddhist charities in the West work more actively and conspicuously so that they can convert and save savage and benighted mind-streams?

Malcolm wrote:
Precious human birth is a function of karma, not conversion.

The Cicada said:
According to your school, good friend. Nichirenites, and probably Pure Landers as well, aren't likely to agree with you that only certain human births (the "precious" ones) can be positively affected by Buddhist teaching.

Malcolm wrote:
If someone becomes interested in Dharma, this itself is proof of a precious human birth. Failure to sustain interest in Dvarma even after ample exposure is proof some element of a precious human birth is absent. Fir example, there are many people raised in Buddhist countries who squander it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 29th, 2018 at 5:27 AM
Title: Re: Fantasy
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Well, no, they were inspired by a desire to convert heathens. Most so-called Christian charity work arose as a means of conversion, to save benighted savages.

The Cicada said:
Q-Raj does have a point. Why don't Buddhist charities in the West work more actively and conspicuously so that they can convert and save savage and benighted mind-streams?

Malcolm wrote:
Precious human birth is a function of karma, not conversion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 29th, 2018 at 3:49 AM
Title: Re: Fantasy
Content:


Queequeg said:
I'm not going to try and refute your claims about monasteries in Tibet. I've also heard of the Dalai Lama looking for monasrics to do more outreach, and I've heard Thurman remark along the same lines. Also, Tibet is not representative of all Buddhist societies.

Malcolm wrote:
The same applies to Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma, etc.


Queequeg said:
There is extensive research and commentary on this as well coming out decidedly questioning why Buddhists do not do as much outreach.

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddhisms these studies examine are post-colonial Buddhisms in societies where the integration of Buddhism into the social fabric was badly disrupted. Vietnam, Cambodia, Sri Lanka, Korea, and even Japan to some extent are examples of this.

I reject your claim, since you have advanced no evidence to support it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 29th, 2018 at 3:44 AM
Title: Re: Fantasy
Content:
Queequeg said:
These Christian orders arose inspired by Jesus.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no, they were inspired by a desire to convert heathens. Most so-called Christian charity work arose as a means of conversion, to save benighted savages.

Queequeg said:
Muslims look after others as a teaching of Mohamed.

Malcolm wrote:
Muslims mostly look after each other. It is not like there are huge Muslim charities out there dispensing aid to all and sundry. Really, dude, you are reaching here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 29th, 2018 at 1:55 AM
Title: Re: Fantasy
Content:


Queequeg said:
There are no orders of renunciates dedicated to caring for the poor. There are no Dominicans or Franciscans. No Red Cross, no Salvation Army.

Malcolm wrote:
This was the job of kings, not mendicants. Hence, the systematic appeal by Buddhist authors to secular leaders to provide such services the poor and needy.

And of course, in Tibet at any rate, the monasteries were the source of social services, etc., which in times of peace, were supplied abundantly. Not sure why we need to have a Buddhist order of Franciscans. Monasteries in Tibet have been taking care of the poor since the beginning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 29th, 2018 at 12:34 AM
Title: Re: Fantasy
Content:
beer said:
I cant find any reason why he didnt try to stop the guy hurting the dog. He could have and should have done somehing.

Malcolm wrote:
Give it some thought. Perhaps the dog ran away after being kicked (the usual reaction). You are so caught up in a fit of self-righteous indignation it is blinding you to the realities of the situation.

Do you have a one lifetime view or a multiple lifetime view?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2018 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: Fantasy
Content:
beer said:
Stopping the guy kicking the dog or  at least trying to stop him is perfectly ressonable and probably achievable withbthe right frame of mind and physicality

Malcolm wrote:
You missed the point of anecdote. And what about the fish?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2018 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: Fantasy
Content:
Queequeg said:
Thinking oneself into complacency in the face of suffering that can be alleviated and calling it a spritual perfection is abhorrent, imo. Across Asia where Buddhism has penetrated, we see a correlation with an anemic social charity movement.

Malcolm wrote:
Evidence? For all 2500 years of its existence?

Queequeg said:
Buddhists could learn a thing or two from Christians and Muslims on this point.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I don't think this is true on any level at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2018 at 9:22 PM
Title: Re: New school opening in Woodstock, NY
Content:


kirtu said:
In this case Woodstock has some major advantages starting with a highly educated but unfortunately upper class clientele in the Buddhist communities in the area.

Malcolm wrote:
Bit of unnecessary editorializing there, friend.

"Student, beings are owners of kammas, heirs of kammas, they have kammas as their progenitor, kammas as their kin, kammas as their homing-place. It is kammas that differentiate beings according to inferiority and superiority."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2018 at 8:34 PM
Title: Re: Fantasy
Content:
beer said:
I could say that some of the responses to my comments are judgemental, that people are using crtical inteligence to decide what is right or wrong etc etc and I would be correct, and ithere is nothing wrong with you all doing that, because it is necessary.
Im glad that Malcolm is eating popcorn
also.
When the child was run over I yelled ou to the crowd to ring an ambulance. Igranbed people and asked if they new the number for an ambulance.. One person new the number butbdidnt call. I  should have done more.  I didnt run over to the kid. I should have though.

No shit, we have to work kn ourselves. No shit being hyocritical is stupid and shameful. But no one needs a license to think and act critically and if one does it with a good intention then that is great in my book.
If we are trying to get to the truth then we need to do it.
Look, we can be vwise about it and stupid about it.

I dont consider my self a practitioner but I have been involved in Budfhism for nearly twety years. . Im not here to start shit with people. I say what I h ave seen over the years and I do it because Im.concerned and Ive been in the guts of it.

Sorry for the poor spellling etc, no glasses.


Malcolm wrote:
There are four immeasurables: love, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity. It is a fault to allow equanimity to become indifference, nevertheless, of the four, equanimity is the most important.

Mahākāśyapa was walking through a town one day and saw a man eating a fish and kicking a dog to keep it away from his meal. Kāśypa started laughing at the sight and his student, frankly, was a little shocked. "Why are you laughing at that man kicking a dog?" he asked. Kāśyapa replied, "I am laughing because unbeknownst to that man, he is eating his mother and kicking his father. Samsara is a terrible place."

You should not concern yourself too much with what others do. Why? There is little one can do. You should focus on your bodhisattva path, and feel compassion for everyone, even those deficient Buddhists who don't call ambulances for injured children in Katmandu.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2018 at 7:25 PM
Title: Re: Fantasy
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2018 at 3:40 AM
Title: Re: Immeasurable, Yet No Bigger than Your Thumb: The Tshon Gang in Bon Dzogchen - Keutzer
Content:


dzogchungpa said:
No, the position he is referring to says it IS just a symbol, which doesn't make much sense. Anyway, to repeat:

Malcolm wrote:
It clearly isn't just a symbol if it has anatomical relevance in terms of development of the body.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2018 at 3:24 AM
Title: Re: Immeasurable, Yet No Bigger than Your Thumb: The Tshon Gang in Bon Dzogchen - Keutzer
Content:




dzogchungpa said:
Well, I don't have time to read the paper again right now, but it seems that he thinks there is more to tson gang than what you are describing, see e.g. the section: "Philosophical Speculations on the Nature of the tson gang ".

Malcolm wrote:
And?


dzogchungpa said:
He says there:
The wisdom tshon gang is paradoxical. What sense does it make for something to be simultaneously immeasurable and yet given a particular size and location in the physical heart? The Bon tradition has its own ways of dealing with this paradox. Principally there is the position that the tshon gang is merely a symbol for the natural state, Reality Body and other equivalents. However, it is not just a passive symbol, like the symbol of the g.yung drung or svastika is a symbol for the everlasting. As we saw, the wisdom and the light tshon gang can perform a particular function in the evolution of the human body such as being the source of the wind of space.

Is the mi zhigs thig le a symbol?
As we saw, the wisdom and the light tshon gang can perform a particular function in the evolution of the human body such as being the source of the wind of space.

Malcolm wrote:
So, it is not just a symbol.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2018 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: Immeasurable, Yet No Bigger than Your Thumb: The Tshon Gang in Bon Dzogchen - Keutzer
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I am aware that Kurt does not mention the mi zhigs thig le, but they are the same thing. ...


dzogchungpa said:
Well, I don't have time to read the paper again right now, but it seems that he thinks there is more to tson gang than what you are describing, see e.g. the section: "Philosophical Speculations on the Nature of the tson gang ".

Malcolm wrote:
And?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2018 at 1:11 AM
Title: Re: Immeasurable, Yet No Bigger than Your Thumb: The Tshon Gang in Bon Dzogchen - Keutzer
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is just the Bonpo version of the mi shigs thig le ( anahatabindu ). There is no difference in meaning.

For example, the Rangshar says:
Regarding all unrealized sentient beings:
in humans, [the five lights] are the size of a thumb joint;

dzogchungpa said:
He doesn't seem to mention the mi shigs thig le but he does discuss the "Hindu" notion of the aṅguṣṭhamātra quite a bit. He does mention the tshon sna lnga’i gru gu, or five-colored ball of yarn, and quotes the Union of Sun and Moon tantra regarding it: In the heart of embodied beings there is a radiant drop ( thig le ) of light, that is like a ball of five-colored yarn.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I am aware that Kurt does not mention the mi zhigs thig le, but they are the same thing. For example, when the Hevajra Tantra states:

Great wisdom is present in the body,
perfectly free from all concepts,
pervading all things,
present in, but not arising from the body.


Or for example, in Buddhahood, Vimalamitra is quoted as saying:

The ultimate bindu of light,
the size of a mustard seed, arises clearly;
its self-illuminating light exists as round,
immaculate, and beyond the extremes of permanence and
annihilation.

The tīrthika view is held to be as following in the Rangshar:

The view that the cause is permanent holds that there is a substantial
cause in the center of one’s heart center that is round,
white, the size of a bean, does not come from the father, does
not grow through the condition of the mother, and is held to be
permanent.

In Buddhadharma however, the mi zhigs thig le is composed of elements from one's father and mother. This is very clearly described here by Padmasambhava in the Kandro Nyingthig:

[T]o begin with, the material bindu of the father and mother is created by it [vidyā], [they] are inseparable. On the other hand, the kāyas and pristine consciousnesses are a luminous emptiness not established as some kind of entity, and are free of birth and death. But this body created by a cause is perishable. [438] If one thinks there is contradiction with the former characteristic, that has not been understood. Since that critical point of luminous empty vidyā was not recognized, grasping onto that [luminous empty vidyā] produced the five elements, and the material bindu [was produced] from the refined part of those [five elements.

Basically, the Bonpo "tshon gang" is just talking about this, and when it is being discussed from the point of view of Dzogchen practice it is talked about one way, and when being talked about from the point of view of general tantric anatomy, it is discussed another way.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2018 at 12:27 AM
Title: Re: Vinaya probation exemptions...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I don't think the point is what they worshipped, the point is that they were already stable renunciates.

Grigoris said:
Are you actually going to discuss the issue, or are you just going to set up straw men to knock over?

Yes, I know that was the point, it is pretty clear in the text, my question would be why would he pick the particular type of practitioners, surely there were other types of practitioners that were also stable renunciates (your friends the Parsee, for example)

Malcolm wrote:
They probably already accepted rebirth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 28th, 2018 at 12:22 AM
Title: Re: Immeasurable, Yet No Bigger than Your Thumb: The Tshon Gang in Bon Dzogchen - Keutzer
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Just looked through this last night and I found it quite interesting and enjoyable:
http://himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/collections/journals/ret/pdf/ret_44_07.pdf


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is just the Bonpo version of the mi shigs thig le ( anahatabindu ). There is no difference in meaning.

For example, the Rangshar says:
Regarding all unrealized sentient beings:
in humans, [the five lights] are the size of a thumb joint;


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 27th, 2018 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: Vinaya probation exemptions...
Content:
Grigoris said:
Well given that worship of Agni is noted in the Rigveda (which precede Shakyamuni Buddha by some 400+ years), I see no reason why we should take the Parsee tangent.


Malcolm wrote:
I don't think the point is what they worshipped, the point is that they were already stable renunciates.


Grigoris said:
Yes, Hindu is an anachronistic term here, which is why I initially made mention of the worship of a particular deity.

Malcolm wrote:
Why did you use it then?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 27th, 2018 at 10:50 PM
Title: Re: Vinaya probation exemptions...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
However, here, "fire-worshippers" are probably not Hindus, but rather more like Parsees.


dzogchungpa said:
The whole notion of 'Hindu' is kind of anachronistic in this context, as you know, but I don't see why you would think they were more like Parsees. Many sadhus have sacred fires.

Malcolm wrote:
Many sadhus do the five fire thing, but they do not worship these fires nor make oblations to them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 27th, 2018 at 9:39 PM
Title: Re: Vinaya probation exemptions...
Content:
Grigoris said:
The discussion is from the other wheel, but I thought it would be of interest here too as it seems to break the Hindu/Buddhist cross-fertilisation aversion.

Malcolm wrote:
No, not at all. as I understand the passage, these fellows are stable mendicants, used to the homeless life. It has nothing to do with what their view is, it has to do with their conduct. Vinaya, after all, relates solely to conduct.

There is very good reason to be averse to cross fertilization between Hinduism and Buddhism. However, here, "fire-worshippers" are probably not Hindus, but rather more like Parsees.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 27th, 2018 at 9:28 PM
Title: Re: Vinaya probation exemptions...
Content:
Grigoris said:
“Monks, if those come who are fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetics they may be ordained, probation should not be given to these. What is the reason for this? These, monks, affirm deeds, they affirm what ought to be done. If, monks, there come a former member of another sect who is a Sakyan by birth, he may be ordained, probation should not be given to him. I, monks, will give this special privilege to (my) relations.”
https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/pi-tv-kd1

Nepotism aside, I wonder why worshipers of Agni would be exempt? (I am assuming this is the matted-hair ascetics the Buddha is referring to).

Malcolm wrote:
Better asked on the other wheel.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 27th, 2018 at 7:07 PM
Title: Re: Samantabhadra, Samantabhadri, and the Basis
Content:
⊙ Fimbul ⊙ said:
I just had a quick question about the attributions of Samantabhadra and Samantabhadri to the basis. I was curious if they each represent the basis as a whole or if they represent the 'empty' and 'clear' aspects respectively, their union then representing the 'compassion' aspect as the indivisible union of emptiness and clarity?

Thanks

Malcolm wrote:
There is one Samantabhadra called Samantabhadra of the basis: but you have to understand there are five Samantabhadras talked about in Dzogchen tantras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 27th, 2018 at 10:33 AM
Title: Re: DNA TESTS
Content:
MiphamFan said:
How much Neanderthal DNA do you all have?

Malcolm wrote:
1.3 percent. People call me "blond," but I am really a redhead.

Mantrik said:
Which test shows that Neanderthal element up?

Malcolm wrote:
Geno


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 26th, 2018 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: DNA TESTS
Content:
Ogyen said:
haven't done the testing myself, but a family member has, so based on what I was told, our Indian family is shockingly NOT "the Indian we thought it was," but a mix of Ladakhi and Romany (this by the highest percentage.... Oukei we're gypsies) ... The facility for language is clear in the history of translators and Brahmin academics we know of and on modern times lots and lots of engineers and judges/lawyers/doctors. The Italian family o vaguely remember something about Slavic, Jewish, and romany (more gypsy).

tingdzin said:
Now that's interesting.

Malcolm wrote:
Submit? They can take it anyway.

tingdzin said:
Well, I did say "willingly". I know the police state is getting more advanced than Hitler or Stalin would have dreamed possible.

Malcolm wrote:
Our bodies shed DNA all the time. Our DNA can show up on things we have never even come into contact with through secondary transference.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 26th, 2018 at 6:59 AM
Title: Re: The bardo and akanistha
Content:
jhanapeacock said:
Someone said that the Bardo is just another name for akanistha? is this true? i always thought that the Bardo was the transmigrassion realm and that akanistha was another different heavenly realm.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is not even remotely true.

However, the bardo is not a "transgression realm." It is just the space between lives.

Also, the doctrine around Akaniṣṭha is complicated since it is understood differently in sūtra, tantra, and the Great Perfection.

Greg: the four or six bardos is a doctrine exclusive to Dzogchen Man ngag sde (that is, it is not found in sems sde or klong sde, or anu or mahāyoga). In the new schools, there is only one bardo.

Sennin said:
Interesting. Is there any correlation between the one bardo of the new schools, and any of the bardos in Man ngag sde?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, bardo of time of death has equivalent as the moment of death, there is no explicit equivalent for bardo of dharmatā, but in general, the bardo is the srid pa'i bardo.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 26th, 2018 at 4:45 AM
Title: Re: DNA TESTS
Content:
Queequeg said:
Are you telling us you have dysentery?



tingdzin said:
But seriously, folks, as interesting as the results of DNA testing might be, I would under no circumstances willingly submit such personal information to a faceless corporation which can be counted on to use it in deleterious ways in the future. People thought Facebook was harmless, too.

Malcolm wrote:
Submit? They can take it anyway. We have no more right to our DNA than we have right to our shit once we have passed it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 25th, 2018 at 11:32 PM
Title: Re: How do you know you're not just making karma worse??
Content:
Ogyen said:
Quotes compiled from collective karma thread

Malcolm wrote:
But dependent origination, when reduced to its essential components, simply means: where there is affliction, there is a cause for action; where there is action there is a cause for suffering; and where there is suffering, there is a condition for further affliction. Without affliction, there is no cause for action; without action, there is no result, suffering.
A Buddhas deeds are not based on afflcition (desire, hatred, and ignorance); they are based on wisdom. Hence, they do not result in suffering.
A buddha's mind stream is conditioned and relative; it is however free of affliction and endowed with omniscience.

Ogyen said:
From this thread
Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen mainly describes how samsara begins (with an aim to reverse it), but the “mechanics” of samsara are the same: affliction—> action —> suffering —>affliction as infinitum unless one breaks the chain at affliction.

An action always has a result. An affliction does not need to have a result.



Ogyen said:
Two definition questions:

What is the definition (in the context of Dharma) of an affliction?

Malcolm wrote:
A painful mental state, i.e., desire, hatred, and ignorance, or anything that is conducive to a painful mental state, i.e., impure conditioned phenomena.


Ogyen said:
What is the definition (in the context for Dharma) of an action?

Malcolm wrote:
Volition is action, this produces verbal and physical acts.

Ogyen said:
Per the mechanism illustrated in the sequence above, WHY is it that affliction does not need to have a result?

Is it because:
A. As we remain in a state of Vidya we discern what "action" to take from wisdom on how to act (free of affliction?)

B. The "action" is performed without cetana, so its source is wisdom and not ignorance

Malcolm wrote:
Afflictions do not necessarily produce volitions. When we are aware of our afflictive state, we can disengage our minds from actions related towards afflictive objects. This is why we practice śamatha, actually, so that we are aware of our mind's afflictive state. Being aware of our mind's afflictive state is called mindfulness and attention. Being unaware of our mind's afflictive stated is called being mindless and inattentive.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 25th, 2018 at 8:40 PM
Title: Re: The bardo and akanistha
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Also, the doctrine around Akaniṣṭha is complicated since it is understood differently in sūtra, tantra, and the Great Perfection.

chimechodra said:
Thank you for the illuminating knowledge as always, Malcolm. Could you expand on how Akaniṣṭha  is understood in the Great Perfection? Thank you!

Malcolm wrote:
the dharmadhātu.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 25th, 2018 at 6:41 AM
Title: Re: An interesting book...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
He was a nutjob:

".... Samael Aun Weor is my true name as a Boddhisattwa. Samael is the name of my Monad! I am perfectly cognizant of the dawn of life in this Solar System! I saw the dawning of Creation! I am here with this humanity, from the very first moment, since the heart of this solar system started to palpitate after the long Cosmic Night. I came here (to this planet) because my Internal God, my Father who is within me, sent me! My only purpose is to serve and help this humanity! This is why I am serving my fellowmen. This is why I am working for the sake of this humanity! ..."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 8:51 PM
Title: Re: Check my understanding of dran pa/smrti
Content:


MiphamFan said:
If we are beginners, then our smrti is weak, and will get distracted by thoughts. Samprajnya is the caitasika dharma which "guards" our smrti, as we progress through the nine stages of shamatha, our samprajnya develops and helps redirect our mind-vijnana to the object whenever it wanders more and more quickly, and our smrti also gets stronger, so it doesn't leave the object. Samjna helps us distinguish the object of our shamatha from e.g the feeling of our legs on the meditation seat, the wind etc. Apramada is what makes us care about returning to the object of our shamatha if our samprajnya finds that our mind-vijnana is distracted. So as a rough metaphor, let's say we are using a telescope to look at the moon, we want it to be fixed on the moon, and we have lenses that bring the moon into focus if it loses it, a homing lens on the moon and so on.

So basically all these other caitasika dharmas accompanying smrti are completely normal and even desireable in shamatha. I was under the impression that they were "thoughts" and a sign that my shamatha was still very shallow, but from what I understand now, they are not problems at all. They are not additional objects of mind-vijnana, which is the real problem e.g. a song lyric appearing in my head, and then I go after the song, think about where I last heard it, the life of the singer, and so on. Subtle thoughts about the object are also a problem such as e.g. thinking about where the Buddha statue came from etc and should not be confused with the caitasika dharmas.

The common Western understanding of "mindfulness" in daily life is closer to the Vaibasika/Theravadin idea as opposed to Asanga's definition, and involves applying smrti to each moment of cognition. But aside from that, the same caitasika dharmas also arise and are fine.

Is this correct? This is for shamatha with an object.

Malcolm wrote:
Mindfulness is one of the path dharmas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 8:47 PM
Title: Re: The bardo and akanistha
Content:
jhanapeacock said:
Someone said that the Bardo is just another name for akanistha? is this true? i always thought that the Bardo was the transmigrassion realm and that akanistha was another different heavenly realm.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is not even remotely true.

However, the bardo is not a "transgression realm." It is just the space between lives.

Also, the doctrine around Akaniṣṭha is complicated since it is understood differently in sūtra, tantra, and the Great Perfection.

Greg: the four or six bardos is a doctrine exclusive to Dzogchen Man ngag sde (that is, it is not found in sems sde or klong sde, or anu or mahāyoga). In the new schools, there is only one bardo.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 9:36 AM
Title: Re: How do you know you're not just making karma worse??
Content:



Ogyen said:
We talk about karma in principle, and I am fixed (determined) on understanding it in its correct view.   But not to just understand and talk about it.  I want this to be done already.  I'm fed up with being ignorant.

Malcolm wrote:
Since you read French, you can get Valle-Poussin's original translation of the Abhidharmakośa. It is also available in two different English translations.  One by Leo  Pruden, and another:

Abhidharmakośa-Bhāṣya of Vasubandhu
The Treasury of the Abhidharma and its (Auto)commentary

Translated into French by Louis de La Vallée Poussin

Annotated English Translation by Gelong Lodrö Sangpo

Then you need to read four hundred verses of Aryādeva in order to cultivate a perfect view of relative truth. That should sort you out.

Ogyen said:
Awesome, just found the first two.  Are there any differences I should bear in mind between the French and English translations?

The second translation with English translation by Lodrö Sangpo is proving a tougher find.

I'm finding various versions of the 400 verses on Google results... Anyone in particular to start with?  Amazon recommends Geshe Sonam Rinchen's version.

Malcolm wrote:
Pruden's is fine. It is what I learned from. Sonam Rinchen;s ixs also fine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 9:16 AM
Title: Re: DNA TESTS
Content:
DNS said:
It shows how we're all inter-connected genetically and that there is no pure race.

Queequeg said:
Recently read an article describing the hand wringing among alt right boobs who discover heritage they've avowed to hate. You can imagine, it really hurts when they find out they're Jewish or black. Idiots.

Mantrik said:
Yes, I've forgotten which UK white racist group's leader took a DNA test and discovered a significant black ancestry.

Malcolm wrote:
In reality of course, all of our distant ancestors were black.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 8:36 AM
Title: Re: How do you know you're not just making karma worse??
Content:



Ogyen said:
We talk about karma in principle, and I am fixed (determined) on understanding it in its correct view.   But not to just understand and talk about it.  I want this to be done already.  I'm fed up with being ignorant.

Malcolm wrote:
Since you read French, you can get Valle-Poussin's original translation of the Abhidharmakośa. It is also available in two different English translations.  One by Leo  Pruden, and another:

Abhidharmakośa-Bhāṣya of Vasubandhu
The Treasury of the Abhidharma and its (Auto)commentary

Translated into French by Louis de La Vallée Poussin

Annotated English Translation by Gelong Lodrö Sangpo

Then you need to read four hundred verses of Aryādeva in order to cultivate a perfect view of relative truth. That should sort you out.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 4:52 AM
Title: Re: How do you know you're not just making karma worse??
Content:
Grigoris said:
Karma is the driving force behind where one is born in samsara.
Yup, that is past karma.  In the meantime though one is busy accruing vipaka with their current actions too.
Malcolm wrote:
However, karma does not form ideologies and philosophies. If you believe this, then you will be forced accept the consequence one's beliefs are predetermined.

Grigoris said:
What are you talking about?  Given what you said above it is you that could be accused of determinism.

Malcolm wrote:
No, basically. If your karma is to be born a wealthy family, you will never be able to take rebirth in the womb of a poor mother. Why? Just as a fruit tree cannot flourish in poor soil, but various kinds of other plants can easily grow, a poor mother lacks the conditions to support the karmic causes one has accumulated if one has the karma to be born in a more materially fortunate position, on the other hand, your parents might be absolutely awful people, whereas your poor mother might be a saint. Karma is complex.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 4:18 AM
Title: Re: How do you know you're not just making karma worse??
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Karma supersedes all political, social, and economic theories, rendering them all pretty meaningless, in fact.

Grigoris said:
I think you will find that it is karma that is the driving force behind social systems and karma which forms ideologies and philosophies. I would say it is karma that renders them meaningful.

Malcolm wrote:
Karma is the driving force behind where one is born in samsara.

However, karma does not form ideologies and philosophies. If you believe this, then you will be forced accept the consequence one's beliefs are predetermined. At best, all one can say that one's  karmic predispositions towards certain ways of thinking one held in past lives may color what religion, if any, one might seek out in this life. And if one does not have a precious human birth with eight freedoms and ten endowments, what does not matter what one believes. One is not going to get out of samsara anytime soon. Given this is so, all these worldly political theories and social systems are irrelevant. It is one's personal actions that determine where one takes rebirth. For nonbuddhists, to the extent which their religious or moral beliefs compel them to engage in positive deeds of body, voice, and mind and avoid negative deeds, to that extent they will take rebirth in higher realms in samsara. But it really does not matter what religious or social beliefs they hold as long as they engage in the ten virtuous actions and avoid the ten nonvirtuous actions. Even so, without having a precious human birth, they are not getting off the train of samsara.

Of course, one of the reasons it is hard for nonbuddhist to get off that train is that they all engage in the mental nonvirtue of ignorance. This also the case for buddhists. If we do not cultivate correct mundane view, then we won't get off the train either.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 2:53 AM
Title: Re: DNA TESTS
Content:



Mantrik said:
Which test shows that Neanderthal element up?

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, it is higher, 1.5. I guess the max is 5%.

Mantrik said:
Was it a separate test, or in there with the data on geographical origins?  Some companies seem to go into far more detail than others.


Malcolm wrote:
I did the Geno thing like Cone.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 2:37 AM
Title: Re: DNA TESTS
Content:
MiphamFan said:
How much Neanderthal DNA do you all have?

Malcolm wrote:
1.3 percent. People call me "blond," but I am really a redhead.

Mantrik said:
Which test shows that Neanderthal element up?

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, it is higher, 1.5. I guess the max is 5%.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 2:36 AM
Title: Re: DNA TESTS
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I am related to all Native American men on both continents.

The Cicada said:
My late paternal grandmother, like many Anglo-Americans, claimed to be part Native American. Cherokee, IIRC. Claims of Native American ancestry are fairly common in the States by people of whatever stock. ...When it comes to bragging about it, however, this takes the proverbial cake.


Malcolm wrote:
Well, it is mostly surprising because there are no Indians in the woodpile in our family story.

Anyway, it is branch L232

The Cicada said:
The frequency of the lineage in Europe is highest in Scandinavian countries. It is 4 to 5 percent of male lineages in Iceland and Norway. It is about 6 percent of the male population in Sweden. The frequency across most of the rest of Europe is low and seldom reaches above 1 percent.

In the Americas, where it was a founding lineage, most pre-Columbian males are from this line. I n Mexico, it is 82 to 91 percent of male lineages. It is 83 to 98 percent of the male population of Panama. In Greenland, it is over 80 percent of male lineages.

Malcolm wrote:
Be nice to me, I am your cousin.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 1:30 AM
Title: Re: Definitely not the best time to come back as a donkey
Content:


The Cicada said:
It seems that we live in interesting times.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, I just want to make sure no one intrudes on my white, anglo, imperialist privilege.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 1:27 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I assume by everything you mean the realization of emptiness. If so, yes, below the path of seeing the ultimate truth of things is an inferential ultimate only. This also applies to Dzogchen and has been discussed by Khenpo Ngachung among others.

cloudburst said:
yes, that was sloppily put, I am typing in a rush

I am wondering if your understanding is that this necessarily means that there is a don spyi or if there is a different type of object of a conceptual mind

Malcolm wrote:
Can emptiness be a samanyārtha? This is the big argument between Sakya and Gelug. In the former, emptiness below the path of seeing is an inferential exclusion devoid of an object. It seems in Gelug, it takes the form of a universal, and is a conceptual object.

cloudburst said:
intriguing, thanks.

I'll admit, "an inferential exclusion devoid of an object" does sound a little Hashang-y to my Gelug ear ... Do you know of any Nyingma and/or (non-Sakya) Dzogchen pov's on the matter?

Malcolm wrote:
What it means is that "emptiness" below the path of seeing is a result of analysis via the four extremes. Since four extremes are not valid for entities in the relative, there is nothing in the ultimate that exists by way of the four extremes either.

On this point, there is no difference between Sakya and Nyingma.

It is summarized by Śantideva in this way (paraphrase) "when neither an entity nor a nonentity remain before the mind, there being no other alternative, the mind is pacified."

The misrepresented Hashang means trying to have no thoughts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 24th, 2018 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
cloudburst said:
I am interested in your perspective vis a vis a thread I was just reading regarding dzogchen. Maybe I can take up that thread later, but in brief it seems you accept that everything below path of seeing is conceptual, an inference.

Malcolm wrote:
I assume by everything you mean the realization of emptiness. If so, yes, below the path of seeing the ultimate truth of things is an inferential ultimate only. This also applies to Dzogchen and has been discussed by Khenpo Ngachung among others.


cloudburst said:
I am wondering if your understanding is that this necessarily means that there is a don spyi or if there is a different type of object of a conceptual mind

Malcolm wrote:
Can emptiness be a samanyārtha? This is the big argument between Sakya and Gelug. In the former, emptiness below the path of seeing is an inferential exclusion devoid of an object. It seems in Gelug, it takes the form of a universal, and is a conceptual object.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 11:56 PM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
"The cognition in which there is no conceptual construction is perception."
(Dignaga: Pratyaksapariccheda, in Dignaga on Perception, p 25, tr Hattori)

cloudburst said:
can you clarify please: what is this "conceptual construction?"
all conceptual, ie non-direct perceptions must have them, is there there a conceptual construction that is not a don spyi?

Malcolm wrote:
You will have to ask Astus, he cited this passage, not me.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 10:58 PM
Title: Re: DNA TESTS
Content:
MiphamFan said:
How much Neanderthal DNA do you all have?

Malcolm wrote:
1.3 percent. People call me "blond," but I am really a redhead.

Coëmgenu said:
Was your red always lighter or was it particularly redder when you were younger?

Malcolm wrote:
I was a towhead when little. Then my hair shifted red. If my mother is any example, I won't go grey until my late 70's. My brother on the other hand, had much redder hair than mine, and his hair went shocking white in his 40's.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 9:55 PM
Title: Re: DNA TESTS
Content:
MiphamFan said:
How much Neanderthal DNA do you all have?

Malcolm wrote:
1.3 percent. People call me "blond," but I am really a redhead.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 9:33 PM
Title: Re: DNA TESTS
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
Irish/French

Of course, a DNA test would show what we all already know: "French" and "Irish" are not genetic markers, rather they are cultural markers.

My dad is possible the child of a crypto-Jew of sorts. We found some documents of his mother's that identify her last name as "Zinkerstein" then it gets changed to "Zinston" then "Selleck".

This would "technically" make him Jewish, but he wasn't raised Jewish and has no knowledge of Judaism. Funny that.

Malcolm wrote:
My DNA test was rather surprising, apart from confirming my Dutch, English, Scots, Norwegian heritage with a small sprinkling of Italian, apparently, due to some Scandinavian branch of my family branching off about 45,000 years ago in Central Asia, I am related to all Native American men on both continents.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 8:56 PM
Title: Re: Definitely not the best time to come back as a donkey
Content:
tingdzin said:
For some reason this does not get labeled as colonialism by another name.

Malcolm wrote:
Only white people get to be imperialists and colonialists. You know that. Jeez.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 8:50 PM
Title: Re: How do you know you're not just making karma worse??
Content:
Ogyen said:
Any suggestions on how to verify one's karma, any tells that can help navigate what to consider, what to ignore???  What are the post signs along the road I should be paying attention to?

Malcolm wrote:
All happiness in this life is a result of good actions performed in the past. All suffering in this life is a result of negative actions performed in the past. This is your simple test.

Karma supersedes all political, social, and economic theories, rendering them all pretty meaningless, in fact.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 8:34 PM
Title: Re: How do you know you're not just making karma worse??
Content:


amanitamusc said:
Then what got Garab Dorje in so much trouble with his Grandpa if not
the karmaless path? Was this not one of the main reasons Manjushrimitra was called from India?
https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=20474


Malcolm wrote:
The point Garab Dorje was making was essentially the same as Nagarjuna, “nothing here to add, nothing here to remove...” etc. The main difference is that Dzogchen explains how samsara begins and it ends. Lower yanas don’t really explain how sentient beings became deluded.

amanitamusc said:
He caused all that commotion over how samsara begins and ends.
Kids, always stirring things up.
I wonder how his debate with Manju changed things at Nalanda?It
seemed to have changed Manjushrimitra.Everything pure from the
beginning .

Malcolm wrote:
Even the Prajñāpāramitā sūtras teach us that all phenomena are pure from the start. Those very words occur within them. But I see where our misunderstanding comes from. Garab Dorje, aka Vajraprahe (as his name is given in the tantras) told Mañjuśrīmitra that awakening was beyond cause and effect. But cause and effect are a different topic that karma and dependent origination. Why is awakening beyond cause and effect in Dzogchen? Because it exists to be introduced, but without that introduction, it will never be discovered. This is why Dzogchen is part of secret mantra and not sūtra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 8:20 PM
Title: Re: How do you know you're not just making karma worse??
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen mainly describes how samsara begins (with an aim to reverse it), but the “mechanics” of samsara are the same: affliction—> action —> suffering —>affliction as infinitum unless one breaks the chain at affliction.

Ogyen said:
So the reason that we always focus to understand the nature of our condition is the first step to breaking that chain at affliction??

Malcolm wrote:
An action always has a result. An affliction does not need to have a result.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 8:19 PM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Vasana said:
Here is a segment from Distinguishing Phenomena from Their Intrinsic Nature: Maitreya's Dharmadharmatavibhanga with Commentaries by Khenpo Shenga and Ju Mipham. To me it seems to reconcile the points made in this thread.  Saying that, I don't fully grasp the meaning of sentient beings mutually causing each other as a 'ruling condition' as it seems to state below.

Malcolm wrote:
This is the dominant condition (adhipati pratyaya) which is identical to karana hetu, the universal cause -- that is, all phenomenon are the cause of every other phenomena other than itself. Refer to the second chapter of the Kosha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 7:10 PM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is what we mean when we say that one can have a direct perception of another's mind.

Astus said:
In that case, knowing other's mind is not a counter-example to all experiences being within the scope of individual karma.

Malcolm wrote:
Astus, I was not responding to this question.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 11:22 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Grigoris said:
Doesn't conditioning imply/require ignorance?  Conditioned means dependently arisen and dependent arising has ignorance as it's lynch pin.

Malcolm wrote:
Simply put, no. Being conditioned is not commensurate with being contaminated. For example, path dharmas are conditioned, but they are pure.

The dependent origination you describe is the dependent origination of bondage. But there is also a dependent origination of freedom. Conditioned by knowledge, merit arises; conditioned by merit, etc.

Coëmgenu said:
This looks to slightly resemble the "dependent cessation" of sravakayana.

I don't think it can be the "same thing", because that would imply that bodhisattvas are headed the way of arhats when they realize it, but it is at least vaguely similar, inasmuch as "two modalities", if we can forgive that dreadful tirthika language, are being explored of DO.

Malcolm wrote:
There is only one kind of liberation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 11:04 AM
Title: Re: How do you know you're not just making karma worse??
Content:
Ogyen said:
Amanitamusc, is this a Dzogchen question?  I didn't know the viewpoint of karma changes based on the vehicle... Unless I misread something.

Excuse my ignorance.

I look forward to the event in Santa Fe!!

Malcolm wrote:
The view of karma is the same in Dzogchen as it is in lower vehicles.

amanitamusc said:
Then what got Garab Dorje in so much trouble with his Grandpa if not
the karmaless path? Was this not one of the main reasons Manjushrimitra was called from India?
https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=20474


Malcolm wrote:
The point Garab Dorje was making was essentially the same as Nagarjuna, “nothing here to add, nothing here to remove...” etc. The main difference is that Dzogchen explains how samsara begins and it ends. Lower yanas don’t really explain how sentient beings became deluded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 10:46 AM
Title: Re: How do you know you're not just making karma worse??
Content:
Ogyen said:
Amanitamusc, is this a Dzogchen question?  I didn't know the viewpoint of karma changes based on the vehicle... Unless I misread something.

Excuse my ignorance.

I look forward to the event in Santa Fe!!

Malcolm wrote:
The view of karma is the same in Dzogchen as it is in lower vehicles.

Dzogchen mainly describes how samsara begins (with an aim to reverse it), but the “mechanics” of samsara are the same: affliction—> action —> suffering —>affliction as infinitum unless one breaks the chain at affliction.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but it will just get worse under a socialist government.

Grigoris said:
No. And then you would end up exactly like Venezuela, which has centrally controlled pricing.
We used to have centrally controlled pricing in Greece during the 80's, and it worked just fine.  Actually, the 80's were a peak period for Greece's economy.

Malcolm wrote:
Greg, the Greek economy stalled out in the 80's.

Grigoris said:
Real per capita GDP growth was 0.23% a year in the 1980s, versus 7.9% in the 1960s and 4.64% in the 1970s.
In 1980, the average Greek had a standard of living that was 7% below their European peers; by 1989, the gap was 24% below.
Unemployment rose from 2.7% in 1980 to 6.7% in 1989.
Real compensation per employee was flat in the 1980s, while it had grown 4% in the 1970s.
Public debt climbed from 22.3% of GDP in 1980 to 64.2% in 1989.
Total factor productivity, an admittedly nebulous measure of how efficiently an economy combines inputs to generate output, fell by 0.85% a year in the 1980s versus a 6% average annual growth in the 1960s and 2.53% growth in the 1970s.
Net fixed capital formation, a measure of how much fixed capital was invested in the economy after depreciation of existing assets is taken into account, declined by an annual average of 0.17% in the 1980s, while it had grown by 16% on average in the 1970s.
Industrial production grew by a mere 1.3% a year in the 1980s while it had grown by 10% a year in the 1970s.
Average inflation in the 1980s was 19.5% versus 2% in the 1960s and 12.3% in the 1970s.

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.greekdefaultwatch.com/2010/09/did-1980s-ruin-greece.html

You must have meant the 70's.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 23rd, 2018 at 1:32 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sure, if you want the UK to wind up like Venezuela, go for it. Oh wait, you live in Greece, you are already well on the way.

Grigoris said:
Yes, well...  If you think Greece ended up in it's current mess because of socialist policies you are sadly mistaken.  It wasn't the socialist policies, it was because of corruption and nepotism.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but it will just get worse under a socialist government.

Grigoris said:
*For example:  a product may have been 100 drachma (around 30 euro cents) and people started to sell it for 1 euro (around 300 drachma).  If we had stricter controls over the market (like during Greece's socialist phase where pricing was centrally controlled)...

Malcolm wrote:
And then you would end up exactly like Venezuela, which has centrally controlled pricing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 10:41 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
With all due respect Todd,  Corbyn is an idiot.

Grigoris said:
There are idiots and then there is the President of the U$.  I'll take my chances with the idiots, if you don't mind!

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, if you want the UK to wind up like Venezuela, go for it. Oh wait, you live in Greece, you are already well on the way.

We'll deal with Trump -- looking like he is very possibly going to be brought down by a porn star...fitting for such a man.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 10:36 PM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Astus, surely you know what a pratyakṣa is and what it entails.

Astus said:
"The cognition in which there is no conceptual construction is perception."
(Dignaga: Pratyaksapariccheda, in Dignaga on Perception, p 25, tr Hattori)

However:

"By the power of meditation the yogin can have such clear representations that they appear to him almost like the specific forms of the mind of another person, just as deities will bestow grace on a person by appearing in their dreams etc. So even the yogin does not directly grasp another person's mind through his representations. He can be said to know another person's mind only in the sense that the representations which appear in his own mind have the same form as those in another person's mind. therefore yogipratyaksa is called perception only for the sake of convenience."
(Dharmakirti: Samtanantara-siddhi, in Mind Only, p 217-218, tr Wood)

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is what we mean when we say that one can have a direct perception of another's mind.

What you cite here is not even slightly different than what I said. Therefore, one can know another's thoughts, because thoughts have characteristics and so forth, which are perceptible to those who possess the abhijña of knowing the minds of others.

Apprehending the blue vase in another person knows, for such people, is exactly the same as direct perception of a blue vase; first the blueness, etc, of the representation in the mind of another is apprehended, and then it is constructed as the blue vase they have perceived in one's own mind. The process is identical. This is not hard to understand.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 10:33 PM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Grigoris said:
So you believe a Buddha's mind is conditioned and thus cannot see things for what they are.  You believe that a Buddha is afflicted by ignorance.

Malcolm wrote:
A buddha's mind stream is conditioned and relative; it is however free of affliction and endowed with omniscience.

Grigoris said:
Doesn't conditioning imply/require ignorance?  Conditioned means dependently arisen and dependent arising has ignorance as it's lynch pin.

Malcolm wrote:
Simply put, no. Being conditioned is not commensurate with being contaminated. For example, path dharmas are conditioned, but they are pure.

The dependent origination you describe is the dependent origination of bondage. But there is also a dependent origination of freedom. Conditioned by knowledge, merit arises; conditioned by merit, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 10:20 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:


mañjughoṣamaṇi said:
Fair enough. I think the science reporting is related to this. I see these as more interrelated, especially in a time of resurgent race based fascism. The CBC did a documentary on the completely discredited Solutrean hypothesis and literally within a day of it was getting cited widely by those on the right.

Malcolm wrote:
You and I both know, racism/tribalism is never very far from the surface in human beings. And as buddhists, we all know why: false reification of self and other.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 8:25 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:



mañjughoṣamaṇi said:
Opinion sections are edited and are part of the media output of a given organization. When only one perspective is presented (I'm not arguing for 'both sides', but for more perspectives) that is a bias in platforming and a failure in journalistic integrity as it presents one side as normative and unchallenged.

Malcolm wrote:
These are good points, but I don't think they really affect what Maggie Haberman, etc. is doing. OTH, nothing can be all things to all people. This is why we read news from both liberal and conservative journalists.

mañjughoṣamaṇi said:
The NYT is horrible at this, and quite frankly their publishing on the biological sciences in their journalistic output is quite bad too. They had race science weirdo Nicholas Wade as their science editor for years.

Malcolm wrote:
Just because the guy wrote a stupid book does not mean he was terrible in every way. That said, I don't read the times for science stories.

I read the papers mainly for news about politics, wars, money, etc. Disaster porn, mainly.


mañjughoṣamaṇi said:
I didn't bring up their cheerleading of the Iraq War but I think that is relevant here too.

Malcolm wrote:
A significant journalist failure, and one they've acknowledged as such.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 7:40 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
mañjughoṣamaṇi said:
There are different types of ways the media is biased. Chinese state media is obviously a tool of a particular political party and government that has no interest in adversarial journalism except to shut it down. People know (including in China) that there is no freedom in this media.

There is still bias in the media of liberal democracies. The NYT was brought up earlier. As an example of bias, they continue to platform racist pseudo-science while refusing right of response to dissenting voices. One can look at the oped published by Reich recently. A large number of race scholars in biological fields and population genetics contacted the paper to not that he was far outside of the scientific consensus and asked to be given a space to respond. They were not. They had to publish on buzzfeed.

The coverage of Corbyn was brought up because there were several easily accessible reliable studies published on the topic.

Malcolm wrote:
Hi Todd, opinion pieces are not journalism.  For example, I read the journal, because it is good at economic journalism, etc. It’s opinion page however is atrocious.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 12:41 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:



mañjughoṣamaṇi said:
Current and Topical:
http://www.bbc.com/news/stories-43754737

"For decades the BBC denied that job applicants were subject to political vetting by MI5. But in fact vetting began in the early days of the BBC and continued until the 1990s. Paul Reynolds, the first journalist to see all the BBC's vetting files, tells the story of the long relationship between the corporation and the Security Service."

PeterC said:
The BBC goes out of its way to be critical of government in order to demonstrate its independence, which is a condition of its license.  Citing it as a tool of the state is frankly a bit silly.

mañjughoṣamaṇi said:
There are longstanding connections between the state security services and the BBC, and beyond that groupthink is as common in the UK media as it is in the USA. Look at the recent reaction to Owen Jones' critiques of the British media. Or look at the biased coverage of Labor in recent years as Corbyn's popularity skyrocketed.

To praise the BBC and then dismiss it's own reporting on its past connections to the security services is what is kind of silly.

Malcolm wrote:
With all due respect Todd,  Corbyn is an idiot.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 6:33 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Astus said:
By the way, the standard list of what kinds of minds are perceived includes whether it is liberated or not.

Malcolm wrote:
A liberated mind still has images when it perceives characteristics, but when it is in a signless samadhi it doesn't.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 6:32 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
an image is a representation. All perceptions of characteristics are representational.

Astus said:
Then why do you call that a direct perception?

Malcolm wrote:
Astus, surely you know what a pratyakṣa is and what it entails.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 5:11 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:


Ogyen said:
Sorry Manju!!!!

Mantrik said:
it's the usual pattern - good relevant suggestions offered and then things move along. You have to admit, Malcolm gotcha there ! lol

Ogyen said:
Totally got me and kept me in check!! It's what made me verify what I thought I knew before spouting off some additional nonsense...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 5:10 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Grigoris said:
So you believe a Buddha's mind is conditioned and thus cannot see things for what they are.  You believe that a Buddha is afflicted by ignorance.

Malcolm wrote:
A buddha's mind stream is conditioned and relative; it is however free of affliction and endowed with omniscience.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 5:08 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
can perceive the intrinsic characteristics of the conceptual image existing in the other person's mind. It does not mean they share the same "thought."

Astus said:
That is a perception of a reflection, a copy, a simulacrum of those characteristics, in other words, a representation. Why? Simply because it is the god's perception of a characteristic, not that other being's. To make it not merely a representation, there should be thoughts apart from minds.

Malcolm wrote:
Astus, of course an image is a representation. All perceptions of characteristics are representational.

For example, there is a story of a monk of whom devas were fond. They cast theirs mind forth one day, looking for this monk, and unable to locate him, they went to the Buddha and asked what had become of him. The Buddha replied, "Why, he became an arhat, he is sitting right there in samadhi."

What had happened? The arhat in samadhi was not grasping any signs, and so his mind disappeared from the mental sight of these devas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 2:55 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Manju said:
Hello everyone,

a few minutes ago:

US and allies started launching strikes on Syria.

If you know about any `spiritual efforts towards world peace` then please write it here (Sutra recitation etc. ....what is appropriate ? )

I am sitting in Kathmandu and want to recite something.

Manju

Ogyen said:
So this was the OP.  The rest of this discussion has been a hijacked thread in many different directions ... While interesting... I don't think anyone has stayed on topic.


Malcolm wrote:
True, I think it was hijacked right about here when someone brought up their doubts about Assad gassing civilians.

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=28339#p443772


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 2:51 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
PS I wonder what is happening in Afrin, don't see much of that on the news, do you?


Malcolm wrote:
!3 minutes ago, on Reuters:
Turkey, rebel allies have lost hundreds in Afrin fighting, Erdogan says

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Turkey and its Syrian rebel allies have lost “hundreds” of fighters in total since the start of a campaign in northwest Syria three months ago, President Tayyip Erdogan said on Saturday, with the rebels suffering the bulk of the losses.

Turkey and its Free Syrian Army (FSA) allies launched the operation, dubbed “Olive Branch” by Ankara, in January and have since swept the Syrian Kurdish YPG from the Afrin region.

Erdogan has previously threatened to push further east, a move that would ratchet up tension in Syria’s multi-sided conflict.

“Alongside our 56 martyrs, the FSA army had hundreds of martyrs,” Erdogan told Turkey’s NTV in an interview broadcast live.

Turkey sees the YPG as an extension of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), considered a terrorist group by the United States and Europe. The PKK has waged a three-decade insurgency in Turkey’s largely Kurdish southeast that has left some 40,000 people dead.

The United States has trained and backed the YPG militia in the fight against Islamic State in Syria. That support has infuriated Erdogan and strained ties between Washington and Ankara, both NATO allies and members of the coalition against Islamic State.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-erdogan/turkey-rebel-allies-have-lost-hundreds-in-afrin-fighting-erdogan-says-idUSKBN1HS0O2



NY Review of Books, 4/11/18

Grigoris said:
Mohammed is not his real name. He asked me not to share personal details, fearing retaliation from the fighters he passes when he walks around his city. I can say only that Mohammed is a Kurd living in Afrin, a city in northern Syria that was held for more than five years by Kurdish-led forces until it was, about three weeks ago, overrun and occupied by the Turkish army and its proxy forces fighting under the umbrella of the Syrian National Army (SNA), formerly known as the Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army (FSA).

To be a Kurd in Afrin, once a majority Kurdish city, Mohammed says, is now to find oneself a member of a despised group, suspected of disloyalty, and liable to be robbed, beaten, put to flight, or worse. In its seventh year, the Syrian civil war has seen the warring parties and their foreign sponsors foster and exploit ethnic and sectarian divisions in order to realize their strategic ends. The looting and ethnic cleansing of Afrin by Turkish-backed militias is the latest ugly episode of this grim and cynical logic.

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/04/11/how-turkeys-campaign-in-afrin-is-stoking-syrian-hatreds/

Human Rights Watch, 4/8/18

Grigoris said:
(Beirut) – Syrian government forces are blocking some civilians fleeing the Turkish-led military actions in Afrin from entering territory under government control, Human Rights Watch said today. The civilians are stranded in areas with limited food, clean water, and medical supplies. Syrian government authorities should facilitate freedom of movement and aid delivery for the affected civilians.

At the same time, Human Rights Watch has documented that armed groups working with Turkish forces are looting and destroying civilian property in the city of Afrin and surrounding villages, exacerbating the plight of civilians there. Turkish forces and non-state armed groups in control of Afrin should halt the looting and hold those responsible for the damage accountable.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/04/08/syria-afrin-residents-blocked-fleeing-aid


The NY Times, 3/22/18:
Emboldened Turkey Pushes Deeper Into Syria, but Risks Abound

KILIS, Turkey — After two months of uncertain fighting, Turkey appears suddenly to be riding high in its military campaign to take control of a larger piece of northern Syria.

Along the border, studded with spring flowers and pistachio and olive groves, the artillery guns and fighter jets that until recently pounded the low mountains have fallen silent since Turkish forces captured the enclave of Afrin last weekend.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/world/middleeast/turkey-syria-afrin.html


Grigoris said:
And I don't see anybody sending Tomahawk missiles to take out the Israeli snipers killing unarmed Palestinian protectors on a daily basis.  Weird that.


Malcolm wrote:
And under the Trump administration, you won't hear  a peep from our Gvt. But the news is different.

Grigoris said:
JERUSALEM — They came in smaller numbers. But the outcome was still deadly, and the victims this time included a 15-year-old boy.

Palestinians protested for a fourth Friday along the security fence dividing Gaza from Israel, some of them burning tires, hurling rocks or flying kites with flaming tails in the hope of setting ablaze the fields of Israeli rural communities on the other side. The Israeli military distributed a photograph of one kite with a scrawled swastika.

The military estimated the number of participants at about 3,000 in five locations along the Gaza border, down from at least 30,000 on March 30, when the protest campaign started.



Malcolm wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/world/middleeast/gaza-protest-deaths.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 2:23 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:



Grigoris said:
I fail to see how bringing up verifiable facts is "poisoning the well", unless you somehow think that following the trail of money and influence is not important.

Malcolm wrote:
The facts you brought up were germaine to CORE only, not to Freedom House.

Grigoris said:
Another example:  You state that the BBC is a reputable source.  The BBC is funded by the UK state.  It's executive board reads like a pedigree of English political and economic inbred nepotism.  And yet you believe that an organisation like this is capable of objectively reporting facts and does not fall prey to political and economic pressure to "inform" people in a particular manner.

Malcolm wrote:
Journalism is a discipline. It requires training and education to do properly. BBC news, etc., hire real journalists.

Grigoris said:
My opinion is that there is no such thing as independent and objective large scale (or mainstream) media.  It's a fantasy.

Malcolm wrote:
Real journalists make mistakes and issues corrections. However, these days, many people mistaken opinion for journalism. Well, as the old saw goes, "One is entitled to one's own opinions, one is not entitled to one's own facts." Journalism is about uncovering facts and then reporting on them.

Grigoris said:
Unfortunately many small scale independent media outlets tend to fall prey to their own political bias.

Malcolm wrote:
This is because they are not doing journalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 2:16 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Mantrik said:
...spouting the words of the Russian troll factories...

yagmort said:
you do realise that the whole "russian troll factories" can very well might be just as brainwashing as you think Ickes ideas can be, don't you? did you see the "Sinclair's script for stations" video? Please watch it and ask yourself how is that possible if they are not controlled and obeyed to deliver the same script? did you see Eva Bartlett's report? no need to answer and confront me, i just ask you and everyone else - please, re-think what do you know and who provide you the information.

here s another one:
US journalist Pearson Sharp reports from Douma hospital
Pearson Sharp to OAN: No sign of a chemical attack at the Douma hospital where White Helmets filmed their video.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uCzjV_1524322998


and once again - who is advocating war?

Malcolm wrote:
OAN is a very fine purveyor of lies and fake news. Bat shit crazy, Pro-Trump, right wing media onanism at its finest.

This is not journalism. Pity you believe this shite.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 2:03 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
...qualified journalism, and not conspiracy theorists...

yagmort said:
Eva Bartlett's "conspiracy theorists"? yeah, right on UN...

Malcolm wrote:
Eva Bartlett is not a journalist. Patrick Worrall of Channel 4 debunks her here:
Eva Bartlett is a Canadian citizen who describes herself as an “independent writer and rights activist”.

She writes a blog for the state-funded Russian media outlet Russia Today and is candid about her support for the regime of Bashar al-Assad, who is fighting Syrian rebels with Russian and Iranian help.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-eva-bartletts-claims-about-syrian-children


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 1:55 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This, Greg, is exactly the logical fallacy called "poisoning the well." Check your facts first.

Grigoris said:
All your "fact" digging does is try and poison the well further.

Are any of the facts reported by the website I posted false?

Is it false that Freedom House was instrumental in Dewey's creation of SUNY?

Is it false that Bayard Rustin was chairmen of Freedom House?

Is it false that Roy WIlkins was part of Freedom House?

Is it false that Freedom House was against isolationism and America First?

Is it false that Freedom House was opposed to McCarthyism?

If none of these facts are false, than Richard Berman's CORE is complete irrelevant to them. They are basically lifted from this Wiki page which also contains criticisms of the organization:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House

As a 501(c)3 in the US, their books are completely open to public scrutiny. A large percentage of their funding comes from the US State Department. This, for me, is no problem. Since they are grounded in an anti-communist perspective, for you they will be a big problem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 1:37 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:


yagmort said:
nbc, bbc etc are all liers.. they are all controlled by deep state:

Malcolm wrote:
This is what a brain looks like on conspiracy theories.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 22nd, 2018 at 1:06 AM
Title: Re: LARGE BRONZE OFFERING THINGY
Content:
Mantrik said:
WHAT IS THIS PLEASE?

A goblet or vase atop a bowl atop a plate. Clearly for offerings or ritual celebrations of some kind. It is huge (and a bit wonky) at 18 inches high and 16 across. It is like a very Serkyem and reminds me of stacking up offerings for Tsog/Ganapuja.


Malcolm wrote:
Where is you find this? It is clearly not Tibetan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 11:38 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Even so, gun issues in the US are not relevant to this topic.

Ogyen said:
My bad for not being clear, my reference wasn't towards gun issues, but life lost and the mobilizing of forces for x-amounts of lives lost or at stake.

Every intervention is a huge cost both in resources and manpower.  Aside from the unrelated legislative politic, and the different contexts for conflicts, I was merely considering this (or trying to) from a numbers standpoint of innocent people killed, and related expenditures of time energy and resources to meet those.

It was not a thought in linear logic.

Malcolm wrote:
We have, as a world, agreed that guns are "legal" weapons of military violence. We have, as a world, agreed that chemical weapons are not legal weapons of military violence. It is solely for this reason this discussion is important.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 11:17 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
And a UN info graphic depicting where and by whom chemical weapons have been used in Syria, according to reliable evidence the UN was able to gather. As the legend notes, it does not cover all reported instances of chemical weapons used in Syria.


Ogyen said:
I'm vaguely shocked what reported in this graphic is less in frequency than the american mass school shootings in 2018 alone, let alone since 2013..  having a moment of cognitive dissonance.

Malcolm wrote:
These are merely the instances of uses of chemical weapons for which the investigators could gather actual evidence. There are many more.

Even so, gun issues in the US are not relevant to this topic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 11:00 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
yagmort said:
there is no evidence that Assad ever used gas on his own people. it's all fabricated to justify usa actions. the recent video has been shot with guys/kids who been forced to do a video and have been paid with food after. iraq, lybia, syria, yemen... how many more lies do you need to see the same pattern?

Malcolm wrote:
You have some corroboration for your claim? I suppose the Parkland kids are all crisis actors too.

In any case, for those who actually follow qualified journalism, and not conspiracy theorists of the right and the left:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24130181

Then there is this report from Human Rights Watch:

https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/syria_cw0913_web_1.pdf

And a UN info graphic depicting where and by whom chemical weapons have been used in Syria, according to reliable evidence the UN was able to gather. As the legend notes, it does not cover all reported instances of chemical weapons used in Syria.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 10:42 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:



Ogyen said:
A huge problem is... How many people know/don't know this....  Free press doesn't mean much if it's hard to identify.  The majority isn't sufficiently educated to distinguish between free press and MSNBC. So CNN, Fox, MSNBC may as well be the de facto news source to a huge number of people.

This very thread illustrates clearly the confusion in a tiny random population sample... Ok maybe not so random, there are some definite criteria to being a Buddhist....

1230.jpg

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/aug/09/four-uk-news-sources-among-top-10-most-trusted-in-us-survey?CMP=share_btn_link

Malcolm wrote:
You will note that CNN, etc are on the less trusted side.

Ogyen said:
Oh I did, AND I was a little surprised the NYT is on the barely over 50% trusted.  Somehow I expected it to rank closer to the economist...

Malcolm wrote:
Well, the poll was run in England, not the US. In the US, because of Trumpistas, the "Failing" New York Times would be even lower.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 10:08 PM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The above is mistaken, and is posited on a realist perspective.

Astus said:
What do you mean by direct perception of others' minds then?

Malcolm wrote:
If you have the abhijñā of knowing the minds of others, for example, devas, when someone perceives something, it is perceived by a characteristic. A person with such abilities can perceive the intrinsic characteristics of the conceptual image existing in the other person's mind. It does not mean they share the same "thought."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 10:03 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
Freedomhouse:  when your government tells you that you are free.

You guys crack me up.

Malcolm wrote:
Freedom House is independent, not part of the US govt.

Grigoris said:
Questionnaire:

How independent can an organisation set up by a President of the U$ be?

A) Not independent at all.
B) Really not independent at all.
C) Manipulated as hell.
D) Really manipulated as hell.

Malcolm wrote:
This, Greg, is exactly the logical fallacy called "poisoning the well." Check your facts first.

Grigoris said:
The organization was originally founded to counter American isolationism during World War II, and played a role in pushing the United States to get involved. Formed to confront Nazism, Freedom House expanded its role after World War II, promoting trans-Atlantic partnerships and vehemently opposing McCarthyism.

In 1947, Freedom House urged New York Governor Thomas E. Dewey to create a state university that would “accept all qualified students regardless of race, color or place of habitation.” (Dewey would later sign legislation that created the State University of New York.) This marked the beginning of the role Freedom House would play in the civil rights movements.

Bayard Rustin, the organizer of the March on Washington, served as the chairman of Freedom House’s Executive committee, and was part of the organization throughout the ’70s and ’80s. Also among Freedom House’s leadership was the notable civil rights leader Roy Wilkins, executive director of the NAACP during the critical years of the Civil Rights movement.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/503-freedom-house/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 8:07 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Clinton was not brought down. He served the maximum term a president can serve— 8 years.

Grigoris said:
Yup.  Afetr being impeached and then having the decision overturned by the Senate. Bush II was elected because Gore was an incompetent candidate, and was unable win a clear margin in the polls.
Seems the Democrats have a nasty habit of running incompetent candidates at the worst possible times...

Malcolm wrote:
As for the first point, Clinton was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice. The House rightly found him quilty, and he was acquitted on appeal to the Senate. It was, in my opinion, a bad decision. But it is History.

The Democratic Party has no ideological core, unlike the GOP.  They generally only win in recessions and depressions. When people are fat and content, they usually vote in the GOP to cut taxes, a recession inevitably ensues, and the Dems find themselves back in office.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 7:57 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
Freedomhouse:  when your government tells you that you are free.

You guys crack me up.

Malcolm wrote:
Freedom House is independent, not part of the US govt.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 7:53 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
We have a free press in the US. CNN, Fox, MSNBC are not the press.

Ogyen said:
A huge problem is... How many people know/don't know this....  Free press doesn't mean much if it's hard to identify.  The majority isn't sufficiently educated to distinguish between free press and MSNBC. So CNN, Fox, MSNBC may as well be the de facto news source to a huge number of people.

This very thread illustrates clearly the confusion in a tiny random population sample... Ok maybe not so random, there are some definite criteria to being a Buddhist....

1230.jpg

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/aug/09/four-uk-news-sources-among-top-10-most-trusted-in-us-survey?CMP=share_btn_link

Malcolm wrote:
You will note that CNN, etc are on the less trusted side.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 7:49 PM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
minds can appear directly to each other without the need for some intermediary. This is what the ability to know the minds of others shows us. Thus is not an ability restricted to awakened folks.
How does it work? A mind which grasps signs is something which can appear to the mind of others.

Astus said:
It is exactly direct perception that cannot happen, as that would mean having the same state of mind. What might be said is that one can conceive a representation of another mind, just as one can see only representations of physical objects.

"[Consciousness] is only said to perceive the minds of others because it is like a mirror in which appear seemingly external objects. It cannot immediately perceive [others' minds]. What it immediately perceives are its own transformations. Therefore, a scripture says, "There is not the slightest dharma that is capable of seizing other dharmas. It is just that when consciousness is born, it appears resembling images and is said to seize things." As with having the minds of others as objects, so with form, etc."
(Cheng Weishi Lun, ch 7, in Three Texts on Consciousness Only, BDK ed, p 239; in Tat: p 523; http://21dzk.l.u-tokyo.ac.jp/SAT/T1585_,31,0039c15:1585_,31,0039c16.html )

Malcolm wrote:
The above is mistaken, and is posited on a realist perspective.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 7:32 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Dan74 said:
Again the unnecessary comparison to Russia only underscore the paucity of the argument. Russia does not have free media, no one seriously pretends that it does. But intelligent people like Malcolm still apparently think that the US media are free.

The groupthink they exhibit on a whole host of issues is clearly a result of freedom of thought... yeah..

Malcolm wrote:
We have a free press in the US. CNN, Fox, MSNBC are not the press.

Dan74 said:
Oh you mean as long as you have no perceptible influence, you can say what you want.  Russia has such freedoms as well. See Novaya Gazeta, for instance.

Again, overall the US has more freedoms, no doubt for me, but...

Maybe worth it for folks to look up Domhoff (who runs America) and Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent.


Malcolm wrote:
Dan, the NYT is the most influential newspaper in the world. People don’t watch CNN etc., for news, they watch it for sport and cheerleading, opinion pages on steroids perhaps, but they are not news.

With respect to Chomsky, he is just a raducal celebrity, not a journalist, free if the obligation to fact check his sources— Hannity of the left, also given to unsound conspiracy theories and so on.

As for Domhoff, it is no mystery that Anglo—American Liberal Democracy and Capitalism go hand in hand.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 7:23 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This obviously has not happened.

Grigoris said:
Bush:  just happened to be the longest running director of the CIA and then by chance got his son elected after bringing down Clinton because he had extra-marital sex.  No deep state here people, just move along.

Malcolm wrote:
Clinton was not brought down. He served the maximum term a president can serve— 8 years.

Bush II was elected because Gore was an incompetent candidate, and was unable win a clear margin in the polls.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 7:17 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:



Snowbear said:
It's always difficult to balance free press and national security for a democracy, but I think national security should trump free press almost every time.

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t, that path leads to fascism.

Snowbear said:
I think the US is balancing it fairly well.



Malcolm wrote:
With respect to whistle blowing, the gvt. has to prove harm, but the press should never be stifled no matter what happens to whistleblowers. That is why the first amendment in the Bill of Rights is first.

On the other hand revealing sources and methods is not protected by free speech, nor should it be.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 7:09 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This is why tend free press is essential to liberal democracy.

Snowbear said:
It's always difficult to balance free press and national security for a democracy, but I think national security should trump free press almost every time.

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t, that path leads to fascism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 7:02 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Snowbear said:
From: https://rsf.org/en/united-states
The Obama administration waged a war on whistleblowers who leaked information about its activities, leading to the prosecution of more leakers than any previous administration combined.
They note this as "bad," but leaks and whistleblowing seriously undermines national security. I side with the Obama admin on this one.

Malcolm wrote:
That depends, sometimes people leak things which turn out to be in the national interest, like the pentagon papers. Exposing clear evidence of government and corporate corruption and malfeasance is never a bad thing. This is why a free press is essential to liberal democracy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 6:03 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The material aggregate is defined as all physical sense organs and AND objects made of the four elements.

Astus said:
There are both sense-faculties and sense-objects for all 6 sense-fields, and from their meeting arises the respective sense-consciousnesses. Or this can be looked at from the experiential perspective, where there are sense-consciousnesses conceptually split into faculties and objects.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. So?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 5:29 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Dan74 said:
Again the unnecessary comparison to Russia only underscore the paucity of the argument. Russia does not have free media, no one seriously pretends that it does. But intelligent people like Malcolm still apparently think that the US media are free.

The groupthink they exhibit on a whole host of issues is clearly a result of freedom of thought... yeah..

Malcolm wrote:
We have a free press in the US. CNN, Fox, MSNBC are not the press.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 5:02 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
WuMing said:
Malcolm, with all due respect, but I think here you're wrong, and in my opinion it does not have anything to do with far-right/left conspiracy theory.

There is a Swiss historian who is doing research on the "deep state" (among others), unfortunately I can't find any source of his research in English about that, but anyway, here is a good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsfROmgVN5U&ytbChannel=TEDx%20Talks of this historian, worth to watch.

And here an http://www.voltairenet.org/article169316.html

Malcolm wrote:
I will be frank. The deep state theory is essentially accusing career employees of the US goverment of hijacking the US government. This obviously has not happened. It is a myth that only serves the forces of illiberalism in the world, and is basically a modern version of the Protocols Of the Elders of Zion type of belief.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 4:01 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
WuMing said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY1MiNfwcRg&ytbChannel=Democracy%20Now!

Malcolm wrote:
Like I said, the deep state meme is far-right/left conspiracy theory.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 3:54 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
WuMing said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTyvLpNpa9E&ytbChannel=acTVism%20Munich

Malcolm wrote:
There is no deep state in the US. The term is being misapplied by far right guys like Snowden, and the far left, in short by the forces of illiberalism. The deep state refers to the way in some countries, the military runs the political agenda. That is not happening in US.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 21st, 2018 at 12:15 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Once Upon A Time Long Ago Truth Was Important by Paul Craig Roberts said:
Today reporters no longer have to check sources, because there is no longer journalism in America. When the Clinton regime in compliance with the Deep State that made the Clintons super-rich permitted 90% of the independent and diverse US media to be concentrated in the hands of six political companies, pthat was the end of journalism in America.

Ogyen said:
Dunno about Deep State but this (bolded part) actually happened.  This is history if anyone wants to look it up, you'll find this was a historic event which changed the way journalism is used.  I remember because I was close to people up close and personal with this historic event.  It was to them the moment they Titanic hit the iceberg. Sadly.

I get if it sounds crazy, but I remember this clearly happening at the time.

Malcolm wrote:
People at the Times, Wapo, and even the WSJ still do their jobs in a proper way. The same is true of papers like London Times, Guardian, Le Monde and other papers if record. News does not come from TV. It also does not come from RT, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 11:56 PM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Queequeg said:
You equate the perception of an appearance with "having thoughts put into one's mind"

Astus said:
Perception exists in consciousness. If one can make another's consciousness perceive something, that is no different from being able to put a thought into another's mind, as it means one can control another's mind.
Do we need to break down how that is silly?
Please do.

Malcolm wrote:
Simply put, minds can appear directly to each other without the need for some intermediary. This is what the ability to know the minds of others shows us. Thus is not an ability restricted to awakened folks.

How does it work? A mind which grasps signs is something which can appear to the mind of others.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 11:48 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
WuMing said:
here are two interesting articles by Paul Craig Roberts

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/04/16/upon-time-long-ago-truth-important/

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/04/17/crisis-beginning-stages/

Malcolm wrote:
Deep state?  This man just lost all credibility by defending Tucker Carlson, a hack of the first order.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 9:49 PM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Astus said:
We are interacting in our own minds. We each have the concept of communicating with another person, but it all happens within the scope of separate minds. Experience is individual, as there are no shared sense-fields, and the interpretation applied to experience is also individual.

Grigoris said:
Ridiculous.  of course there are shared sense fields, even if we experience them individually.  When I walk into a room with you and switch on a light, it is not that the light sensed by my eyes is my light and the light sensed by your eyes is your light.  There is light and each one of us senses it separately.  According to your theory, if I switch the light on, only I will see it, since the "switching on" and the light are merely my mental constructs.

Malcolm wrote:
Pretty sure what Astus means is that there are no shared āyatanas. Your eye is your eye, my eye is my eye. My eye object is mine, yours is yours, they are not shared in that sense, even if there is only one light in the room.

However, where he is incorrect is on the skandha level. The material aggregate is defined as all physical sense organs and AND objects made of the four elements.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 9:44 PM
Title: Re: Garchen Nyingtig Yabshi Germany 2018 Questions
Content:
bryandavis said:
Anybody have 2cents to say about Yumkha Dechen Gyalmo Wang? Any unique features etc?

narraboth said:
Strictly speaking, it's not a 'Wang', but it should be given only to people who have received Wang. Similar to the case of Vajrayogini in Sakya and Gelug.

Malcolm wrote:
This is called a Jinlab (byin rlabs).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 8:49 PM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Grigoris said:
So we are not interacting?

Astus said:
We are interacting in our own minds. We each have the concept of communicating with another person, but it all happens within the scope of separate minds. Experience is individual, as there are no shared sense-fields, and the interpretation applied to experience is also individual.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, Astus, the traces of other minds are sufficiently strong to generate appearances for ours. For example, the old women who meditated upon herself as a tiger caused a village to panic at the appearance of a tiger in their midst, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 7:55 AM
Title: Re: Are There Different Categories of Buddha's ?
Content:



yan kong said:
Then I must misunderstand something. My understanding is that they are all liberated but that they do not seek to liberated others like Buddhas, nor are they omniscient like Buddhas.

Malcolm wrote:
No, you understood correctly. The point is that, as Candrakīrti points out, the dharmadhātu is one, and therefore, the liberation of śrāvakas, pratyekabuddhas, and buddhas are the same. Omniscience, well, that is another matter. But a buddha is not defined by omniscience, rather they are defined by liberation.

Virgo said:
The one point I never understood is about śrāvakas returning to samsara to continue the path.  Is it that they have a liberation, which is only temporary, until they become Full Buddhas (since they must return)?

Kevin

Malcolm wrote:
They don't return to samsara per se, in the sense that they must endure suffering, but they must accumulate merit in order to manifest the rūpakāya and accumulated wisdom for omniscience.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 6:08 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:



Kunga Lhadzom said:
The only thing that got me so wound up in this discussion was because people were acting so negatively, and thinking she was a scammer/fraud/ignorant.....when there wasn't empirical proof....

Malcolm wrote:
Generally ignorant? No. She is clearly educated. Ignorant of Tibetan Buddhism? Absolutely.

Claiming that Heruka is related to the god Horus is completely ignorant, lacking anything even remotely resembling the truth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 5:56 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:



Ogyen said:
THANK YOU.  Determinism completely missed the point... We don't have castes in Buddhadharma... Right??


Malcolm wrote:
No, we do not promote class in Buddhism, but we also do not ignore it. We accept as a matter of course, that people with positive karma are born more attractive, healthy, long-lived, intelligent, moral, access to wealth and so on. People with negative karma are less attractive, healthy, long-lived, intelligent, moral, access to wealth and so on. And of course, based on the mixture of karma we possess, we are all mixtures of these things; some people born into high positions in society are ugly, immoral, not so smart, etc. Others born into lower positions are attractive, long lived, moral, etc.

The position into which one is born is not a guarantee of future returns. IN samsara, one day a king, the next day a beggar. This is common.

Ogyen said:
So what you're saying also means that while it's acknowledged and accepted "as a matter of course", it's like points earned in a game of suffering, so it doesn't attach superiority to these conditions.  The points will run out and back to scratch.  Or even in a hell where it is really really hard to come out of.

Malcolm wrote:
Higher stations have no moral value attached to them in and of themselves, unlike Hinduism, where being born a brahmin immediately confers social privileges categorically denied others; the only value of high stations and higher rebirths is the ease with which one will likely live one's life. But if someone has the karma to be poor, even if you give them a wishgranting jewel they will either lose it or have it stolen. Karma is unerring.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 5:41 AM
Title: Re: Are There Different Categories of Buddha's ?
Content:



yan kong said:
Then I must misunderstand something. My understanding is that they are all liberated but that they do not seek to liberated others like Buddhas, nor are they omniscient like Buddhas.

Malcolm wrote:
No, you understood correctly. The point is that, as Candrakīrti points out, the dharmadhātu is one, and therefore, the liberation of śrāvakas, pratyekabuddhas, and buddhas are the same. Omniscience, well, that is another matter. But a buddha is not defined by omniscience, rather they are defined by liberation.

PSM said:
So when we say "buddha", we're probably actually meaning "samyaksambuddha", buddha being a wider category?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 5:40 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:


Ogyen said:
This is a subtle change of subject and a definite twisting of my words and the context in which my statement is quoted. Also what you note does not contradict the spirit of what I wrote while quoting me out of context.

Malcolm wrote:
Idiot theory of karma is "tit for tatism": I raped someone in a past life, now in this life they will rape me.

Actual theory of karma is not deterministic but based on probability. If you have negative dominant karma and are born in a war torn country based on the criteria given above, your chances of having a short life and a violent death are increased exponentially.

Ogyen said:
THANK YOU.  Determinism completely missed the point... We don't have castes in Buddhadharma... Right??


Malcolm wrote:
No, we do not promote class in Buddhism, but we also do not ignore it. We accept as a matter of course, that people with positive karma are born more attractive, healthy, long-lived, intelligent, moral, access to wealth and so on. People with negative karma are less attractive, healthy, long-lived, intelligent, moral, access to wealth and so on. And of course, based on the mixture of karma we possess, we are all mixtures of these things; some people born into high positions in society are ugly, immoral, not so smart, etc. Others born into lower positions are attractive, long lived, moral, etc.

The position into which one is born is not a guarantee of future returns. IN samsara, one day a king, the next day a beggar. This is common.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 4:44 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Snowbear said:
It's actually really cool that Grigoris is Greek and has a first-hand take on left wing Greek politics. Even cooler that he is willing to have discussions with us evil Americans. How many Greeks are interested (or have the English skills) in doing that?

Malcolm wrote:
We all appreciate his humanitarian work. As for his English, he is an Aussie.

Snowbear said:
While I'm not convinced that us Americans are the cause of the world's problems, one can't deny that Greeks are suffering and their gripes with the international world order are worth listening to.

Malcolm wrote:
The world is suffering. Everyone's position is impermanent, and this is the reason why I object to all this privilege rhetoric.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 4:37 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Think twice next time before you are tempted to throw someone under the DW bus.


dzogchungpa said:
Says the bus, lol. I was, and am, legitimately interested in this story.



Malcolm wrote:
Maybe this will interest you as well:

I present: Pink Oshun!!!

dzogchungpa said:
PINK OSHUN is the 21st Century Priestess in me. She is the modern woman, having the ability to both plug in and out of the matrix. As a business woman, I have the opportunity and freedom to follow my passions, while pursuing my spiritual journey and funding projects designed around community building and healing.

Pink Oshun is the Feminist Goddess in me that challenges patriarchy from the standpoint that tracing our roots to the ancestry of our blood line  is an essential part of healing the traumatic injuries that white supremacy requires that we, black and white, honor our African roots. The journey of the Pink Oshun within is about bringing forth the healer within me to assist our community towards healing from our oppression.

She leads us on a modern eclectic path with the disciplines of prayer, meditation, and the creative arts. She guides me in building an intentional community that is sustainable and a diverseAfrican culture centric place for you. If you are interested in finding out who you are, discovering the Ancestral African bloodline within and beginning the journey of healing and self discovery; then Pink Oshun may very well resignate with you as well.

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.oshuntalks.com/maat-tantra

Wishing you well on your afrocentric tantric journey...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 4:31 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:


Ogyen said:
This is a subtle change of subject and a definite twisting of my words and the context in which my statement is quoted. Also what you note does not contradict the spirit of what I wrote while quoting me out of context.

Malcolm wrote:
Idiot theory of karma is "tit for tatism": I raped someone in a past life, now in this life they will rape me.

Actual theory of karma is not deterministic but based on probability. If you have negative dominant karma and are born in a war torn country based on the criteria given above, your chances of having a short life and a violent death are increased exponentially.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 4:24 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
quit the meta-discussion and get back to the bunfight.

Ogyen said:
I knew it was time for more!!!

Snowbear said:
The meta-discussion was important in the sense that when we catch ourselves seeing our opinions as mirroring reality more accurately than others, we need to pause and question it.

Malcolm wrote:
I was basically just arguing that the Western Press is actually journalism, and not fascist propaganda like that generated by Syrian and Russian state media. For this I was attacked for indulging in my "white privilege," being an American (this charge is certainly true), and castigated for not understanding what it is like to be a target of racism (which is actually untrue).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 4:19 AM
Title: Re: Are There Different Categories of Buddha's ?
Content:



yan kong said:
To my understanding these are not Buddhas, even if one has Buddha in the name.

Malcolm wrote:
The liberation of the three is the same. They are all Buddhas.

yan kong said:
Then I must misunderstand something. My understanding is that they are all liberated but that they do not seek to liberated others like Buddhas, nor are they omniscient like Buddhas.

Malcolm wrote:
No, you understood correctly. The point is that, as Candrakīrti points out, the dharmadhātu is one, and therefore, the liberation of śrāvakas, pratyekabuddhas, and buddhas are the same. Omniscience, well, that is another matter. But a buddha is not defined by omniscience, rather they are defined by liberation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 3:56 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:



Sennin said:
Mukhagama Commentary by Master Vitapada:
There is no transgression [in seeking to become] superior to the gods;
bodhisattvas are superior to them,
buddhas are superior [to bodhisattvas],
and the great Vajradhara who has the seven unions
is superior [to buddhas].

Malcolm wrote:
Perfect.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 3:25 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:



Snowbear said:
...but you're positing yourself in a more advantageous position.


Malcolm wrote:
We call this, "Socialist privilege."

Snowbear said:
Yep, always the self-righteous types.

Malcolm wrote:
If only Grigoris would read Rawls as well as Nozick's Anarchy, State, and Utopia.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 3:21 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Snowbear said:
You are indirectly saying here that your POV has risen above the conditioning, but other's (who don't agree with you) haven't.

Grigoris said:
I am saying that our conditioning influences our views.  Having been conditioned outside of the particular view it is easier for me to see it's effect and then try to use this to not replicate the same mistakes.

Snowbear said:
...but you're positing yourself in a more advantageous position.


Malcolm wrote:
We call this, "Socialist privilege."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 3:20 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
It is a more amplified version of the mechanics/effects of inequality which we live out in the human realm.

Malcolm wrote:
Inequality will never be solved by external impositions of power on social relations. It is a result of karma, plain and simple. Of course we do not leave things in this way, we try to provide means for the less fortunate and so on; but there is no social theory, no theory of government, that will eliminate inequality in any absolute way.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:



Ogyen said:
Thank you for such clarity... This is crystal clear.  We're all alone in this, together.  So is this why teachers like Thich That Hanh stress the importance of interbeing?

Malcolm wrote:
Interbeing is an extension of dependent origination, based on East Asian ideas.

But dependent origination, when reduced to its essential components, simply means: where there is affliction, there is a cause for action; where there is action there is a cause for suffering; and where there is suffering, there is a condition for further affliction. Without affliction, there is no cause for action; without action, there is no result, suffering.

Ogyen said:
So a Buddha's actions don't cause karma and therefore suffering (further affliction) because they are no longer bound to the cycle of dependent origination?

Malcolm wrote:
A Buddhas deeds are not based on afflcition (desire, hatred, and ignorance); they are based on wisdom. Hence, they do not result in suffering.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 3:10 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:


Ogyen said:
Is personalizing this discussion really relevant?

Malcolm wrote:
Of course it isn't, which is why when Greg goes this route it is completely unproductive. And quite frankly, every damn time this kind of loggerhead happens here, it is because Greg shoots off his mouth about someone being white, American, etc., as if this disqualifies their POV. That logical fallacy is called "poisoning the well."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 3:08 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:



Kunga Lhadzom said:
Can't they just have an intelligent conversation ?

to

Malcolm wrote:
No, dear. Spirits like that are only interested in mortals as servants, not as advisors.


Kunga Lhadzom said:
Well....maybe Yeye should renounce Osun, if Osun still wants bloodthirsty ritual sacrifice. ...
And just stick with Buddha.....who was against ritual sacrifice. ....

Malcolm wrote:
That would require her to take refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha, of which I have seen no evidence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 3:02 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The only person here that has been making ad hom arguments is you. This is in fact your general approach to people on the forum. Its abusive.

Grigoris said:
I am going to say it one more time:  I am not making personal attacks against you.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, which is what the Klansman told the African American -- "It isn't personal, friend, we just lynch everyone who looks like you."
An attack is an attack, it does not really matter whether it is intended to be "personal." You constantly attack myself and others on the forum with whom you have political differences for being white, for being American, Anglo, etc. Everyone knows that you do this. The only person blind to it is you, because your level of aggression and self-righteousness has led you to believe this is acceptable behavior. Keep it up and I will lodge a formal complaint.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 3:01 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Snowbear said:
Uh, huh...your hand waving to transform your POV into "reality" is noted.

Grigoris said:
So you are positing a nihilist position then?

Snowbear said:
When did being humble about one's opinions become nihilism? I feel like you're trolling.

Malcolm wrote:
Grigoris is best ignored. When you respond to him, like clockwork he resorts to personal attacks.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 2:59 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
I was, and am, legitimately interested in this story.


Malcolm wrote:
You must have been aware that it would have provoke criticism.


dzogchungpa said:
Meta-discussion much? Friend, almost everything remotely interesting provokes criticism.


Malcolm wrote:
Most of that which is "interesting" is not Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 2:57 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
Ummmm... No.  If you ask a victim of racism whether they perceive a difference between what YOU describe as "simple" and systemic racism, well, I won't talk on their behalf.  Go and do it yourself and see what the answer will be.
Man, it is not my problem if you do not want look past your conditioning to see the reality of your position in society.  I can't force you to do that.  It is not something personal against you, it is a white thing.

Malcolm wrote:
Pathetic and trite.


Grigoris said:
I try to constantly check my privilege as a Greek living in Greece.  It is pernicious and a easy role to slip into, especially when I have to deal with refugees to Greece (which I do on a daily basis).  Some people ignore the power their position affords them and just go about their business as usual, whilst unknowingly riding roughshod over the "others".  Other people take advantage of it and use it to bolster their position of advantage and compensate for their lack of power as the lowest Greek members of Greek society (racists, neo-Nazi types, frothing nationalists, etc...).  Some maintain their position of power and use this to play the role of the great humanitarian saviors.  Etc...

Malcolm wrote:
This is all such incredible bullshit. You are entitled to believe it. I don't. It has nothing to do with Dharma and is not a Dharma view.

Grigoris said:
But it is not a personal attack.  Trust me.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, which is exactly what Bolsheviks said to their victims as they were gunning them down. At least Fascists are more honest in their hatred.

Grigoris said:
Well you convinced me of the veracity of your view using your finely honed argument consisting of appeals to authority, ad hom and reductio ad stalinum (that's the McCarthyist version of reductio as hitlerum).

Malcolm wrote:
The only person here that has been making ad hom arguments is you. This is in fact your general approach to people on the forum. Its abusive.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 2:49 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There, that's refreshing. You do in fact recognize there is a difference between racism and systemic racism. Good for you.

Grigoris said:
Ummmm... No.  If you ask a victim of racism whether they perceive a difference between what YOU describe as "simple" and systemic racism, well, I won't talk on their behalf.  Go and do it yourself and see what the answer will be. The rest of your post is quite typical of the diatribes you have become accustomed to making against members on this forum, due to your position of power and impunity as a moderator. Check your own privilege, dude.
Man, it is not my problem if you do not want look past your conditioning to see the reality of your position in society.  I can't force you to do that.  It is not something personal against you, it is a white thing.

Malcolm wrote:
Pathetic and trite.


Grigoris said:
I try to constantly check my privilege as a Greek living in Greece.  It is pernicious and a easy role to slip into, especially when I have to deal with refugees to Greece (which I do on a daily basis).  Some people ignore the power their position affords them and just go about their business as usual, whilst unknowingly riding roughshod over the "others".  Other people take advantage of it and use it to bolster their position of advantage and compensate for their lack of power as the lowest Greek members of Greek society (racists, neo-Nazi types, frothing nationalists, etc...).  Some maintain their position of power and use this to play the role of the great humanitarian saviors.  Etc...

Malcolm wrote:
This is all such incredible bullshit. You are entitled to believe it. I don't. It has nothing to do with Dharma and is not a Dharma view.

Grigoris said:
But it is not a personal attack.  Trust me.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, which is exactly what Bolsheviks said to their victims as they were gunning them down. At least Fascists are more honest in their hatred.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 2:45 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Kunga Lhadzom said:
tell Osun to go vegan now

Malcolm wrote:
Um, it rather works the other way around. The Orisha dictates to the medium.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
Can't they just have an intelligent conversation ?

to

Malcolm wrote:
No, dear. Spirits like that are only interested in mortals as servants, not as advisors.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 2:45 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
I was, and am, legitimately interested in this story.


Malcolm wrote:
You must have been aware that it would have provoke criticism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Kunga Lhadzom said:
tell Osun to go vegan now

Malcolm wrote:
Um, it rather works the other way around. The Orisha dictates to the medium.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 2:07 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Kunga Lhadzom said:
I was daydreaming again.....and thought...maybe she will be the one to put an end to ritual sacrifice in the culture.
Maybe that's the reason this happened....sometimes one intention is not what you think....maybe her subconscious. ..or wisdom intuition....had a higher plan for her....

I know....i'm an idealist......

Malcolm wrote:
If wishes were fishes...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 2:01 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
You cannot gather karma for me, I cannot gather it for you. "Collective karma" assumes that groups share karma. This is true only insofar as similar actions bear similar results. But for example, claiming that Jews in the holocaust suffered from collective karma is wrongheaded.

Ogyen said:
Thank you for such clarity... This is crystal clear.  We're all alone in this, together.  So is this why teachers like Thich That Hanh stress the importance of interbeing?

Malcolm wrote:
Interbeing is an extension of dependent origination, based on East Asian ideas.

But dependent origination, when reduced to its essential components, simply means: where there is affliction, there is a cause for action; where there is action there is a cause for suffering; and where there is suffering, there is a condition for further affliction. Without affliction, there is no cause for action; without action, there is no result, suffering.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 1:56 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Speaking of Kali Ma, a certain other Kali Ma turned out to be a Rinpoche...

Malcolm wrote:
Recognized by whom? Recognitions are relatively inexpensive, and prove nothing. Steven Segal, anyone?

dzogchungpa said:
.
Are you suggesting that the ex Kali Ma in question may have purchased her title? Anyway, my point is that people can develop, so perhaps we should wait and see where this goes before coming to a definitive conclusion.

Malcolm wrote:
I am suggesting that recognitions are pretty meaningless.

As for the other thing, you started it. Maybe you should not have posted that. In the end, all you really did was provide a condition for that poor lady to become distressed when she was a  subject of justified criticism. You know quite well what happens when you stir the pot on DW. So, are you now satisfied that your idle sport has born regrettable fruit? Think twice next time before you are tempted to throw someone under the DW bus.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 1:17 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Is the "container universe" collectively conjured or not?
Conjured? No. Does it arise from the total aggregate of all sentient beings actions, yes.

Queequeg said:
Is it incorrect to then say that it is collective karma? Do you see a problem with characterizing it that way? If so, can you elaborate on those pitfalls?

Malcolm wrote:
You cannot gather karma for me, I cannot gather it for you. "Collective karma" assumes that groups share karma. This is true only insofar as similar actions bear similar results. But for example, claiming that Jews in the holocaust suffered from collective karma is wrongheaded.
Sometimes around here, we see some people throwing around irresponsible claims such as black people being angry and wishing to harm white people is the result of the karma of white oppression, which is absurd. It is just as absurd as the claim that black people suffering from oppression is from racial karma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 1:02 AM
Title: Reference list in response to “Anti-War” memes about Syria circulating April 2018
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 12:59 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Jeff H said:
Surely you can’t be saying that anyone who hasn’t felt some affinity for buddhadharma in this life will never meet Buddha, except by improbable dumb luck. Or that non-buddhists who exhibit genuine loving compassion are not generating positive karma which could, eventually, be greatly cultivated and refined by subsequent exposure to the Dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
Surely I am not saying that; but what I am saying is that if one does not meet the Dharma, one is merely spinning on a wheel.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 12:56 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The dominant result is said to ripen as the container universe where one is born and lives. For instance, due to taking life, one must be born and live in a bleak region with ravines and so on that are harmful to life. Likewise, due to taking what has not been given, frost and hail will arise, fruit will not form on trees, and famines will arise. Due to improper desire, one must live in a place with thick dust and where there are many unpleasant things such as feces, urine, swamps and so on. Due to lying, one must live in a place that is polluted and foul-smelling, one’s wealth will not be stable, and the country will be frightening. Due to calumny, one is born in a region that is uneven, with ravines and gorges. Due to harsh words, one is born in an unhappy place that is salty and so on. Due to idle speech one is born in a place where rice does not grow; even if one farms, the seasons are not constant; and so on. Due to greed, one lives in a place where the harvest is damaged, the grain is small, and one is born during a bad time. Due to malice, one is always frightened, there are frequent injuries, and one is born in a place where the grains have a bitter taste. Due to wrong view, even though the grain is not small, [136/a] there is little wealth, and one is born without refuge and defenders.

The Ratnavali sums it up:

Though those engaged in nonvirtue desire happiness, 
but where ever they go,
they are crushed by suffering
because of that nonvirtue then and there.

Queequeg said:
Is the "container universe" collectively conjured or not?

Malcolm wrote:
Conjured? No. Does it arise from the total aggregate of all sentient beings actions, yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 12:28 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Speaking of Kali Ma, a certain other Kali Ma turned out to be a Rinpoche...

Malcolm wrote:
Recognized by whom? Recognitions are relatively inexpensive, and prove nothing. Steven Segal, anyone?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 12:18 AM
Title: No, the BBC is not reporting the end of the world
Content:
Unknown said:
A fictional video reporting the onset of thermonuclear war and featuring BBC News branding has been shared widely.
It is not real but alarmed viewers have contacted the BBC, apparently convinced it is true.
On YouTube, the company behind the video clearly stated it was fiction before their account was removed.
But on WhatsApp, where the video has been passed on without that clarification, some users were fooled.


Malcolm wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-43822718


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 12:12 AM
Title: Syria war: The online activists pushing conspiracy theories
Content:
Unknown said:
Inspectors from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) are attempting to access the previously rebel-held town of Douma, where medical organisations and rescue workers say President Bashar al-Assad's forces dropped bombs filled with toxic chemicals in an attack on 7 April, killing more than 40 people.

The Syrian government and its key ally, Russia, say the incident was staged. But the US, UK and France - who support the opposition to Mr Assad - say they are confident that chlorine and possibly a nerve agent were used.

Despite the uncertainty about what happened in Douma, a cluster of influential social media activists is certain that it knows what occurred on 7 April.

They've seized on a theory being floated by Russian officials and state-owned media outlets that the attacks were "staged" or were a "false flag" operation, carried out by jihadist groups or spies in order to put the blame on the Assad government and provide a justification for Western intervention.

The group includes activists and people who call themselves "independent journalists", and several have Twitter followings reaching into the tens or hundreds of thousands.

The activists call themselves "anti-war", but as they generally back the Syrian government's military operations against rebel forces seeking to overthrow Mr Assad and Russian air strikes carried out in support, it might be more accurate to describe them as "anti-Western intervention" or "pro-Syrian government".

According to their narrative, international media organisations across the political spectrum, along with human rights organisations, are somehow covertly aligned with Western governments, Saudi Arabia, the Islamic State group and al-Qaeda and taking part in a secretive plot to take over Syria.

...

White Helmets
The Sarah Abdallah account is, according to a recent study by the online research firm Graphika, one of the most influential social media accounts in the online conversation about Syria, and specifically in pushing misinformation about a 2017 chemical weapons attack and the Syria Civil Defence, whose rescue workers are widely known as the "White Helmets".

The White Helmets operate in rebel-held areas. They have been one of the sources that Western media outlets, including the BBC, have quoted about alleged chemical attacks in Syria. With regard to the incident in Douma, the BBC has not been able independently to verify the group's reports.
Graphika chief executive John Kelly says his company's analysis showed distinct patterns emerging.

"When you're looking at these disinformation campaigns, a lot of the same characters show up for every party," he told BBC Trending.
Graphika was commissioned to prepare a report on online chatter by The Syria Campaign, a UK-based advocacy group organisation which campaigns for a democratic future for Syria and supports the White Helmets. The White Helmets have been the subject of two Oscar-nominated documentary films and have been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

Graphika found 20 million messages about the White Helmets, split between tweets in support and in opposition. Among the opponents, Kelly says, Sarah Abdallah was "by far the most influential", followed by Vanessa Beeley.

The firm found that Sarah Abdallah's account was primarily followed by a number of different interest clusters: supporters of pro-Palestinian causes, Russians and Russian allies, white nationalists and those from the extremist alt-right, conservative American Trump supporters, far-right groups in Europe and conspiracy theorists.

These groups were instrumental in making the hashtag #SyriaHoax trend after the chemical weapons attack in the rebel-held town of Khan Sheikhoun in April 2017.

That hashtag, pushed by Sarah Abdallah and influential American conservative activists, became a worldwide trend on Twitter. Many of those tweeting it claimed that the chemical weapons attack was faked or a hoax.

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-43745629 #


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 20th, 2018 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:


Ogyen said:
Again.  Regardless of what you personally call it, this is a gross misunderstanding of the principle of karma.  There are no "unrelated events" just ignorance and the ability to see or not see them. Everything existing has a causality.  Sometimes causalities meet. Like and intricate outlet systems of rivers.  I may not be responsible for being raped by my stepfather (per previous example) and now my karma is to manage all the sequence of events that comes out of it.

Malcolm wrote:
Just to inject some definition into this discussion: the Buddha, Naḡārjuna, and Vasuabandhu in one voice proclaim, "Karma is volition (cetana) and what proceeds from volition."

Then there is karma vipaka, of which there are three  kinds:  1) the ripened result, 2) the result that corresponds to the cause, and 3) the dominant result.

With respect to the first, the Ratnavali states:

One is born in hell through hatred;
one is born into the preta realm through desire; 
and one is generally born as an animal through confusion.

As for the second:

Due to taking life, life is short.
Due to stealing, one is impoverished.
Due to sexual impropriety, one has enemies. 
Due to lying, one is criticized.
Due to calumny, one is separated from friends. 
Due to harsh words, one hears unpleasantness.
Due to gossip, one’s word has no value. 
Due to greed, one’s hopes will be dashed. 
Due to malice, one will have fear. 
Due to wrong view, one’s view will be bad.

As for the third, the dominant result, Khenpo Ngalo states (and this is all very standard):

The dominant result is said to ripen as the container universe where one is born and lives. For instance, due to taking life, one must be born and live in a bleak region with ravines and so on that are harmful to life. Likewise, due to taking what has not been given, frost and hail will arise, fruit will not form on trees, and famines will arise. Due to improper desire, one must live in a place with thick dust and where there are many unpleasant things such as feces, urine, swamps and so on. Due to lying, one must live in a place that is polluted and foul-smelling, one’s wealth will not be stable, and the country will be frightening. Due to calumny, one is born in a region that is uneven, with ravines and gorges. Due to harsh words, one is born in an unhappy place that is salty and so on. Due to idle speech one is born in a place where rice does not grow; even if one farms, the seasons are not constant; and so on. Due to greed, one lives in a place where the harvest is damaged, the grain is small, and one is born during a bad time. Due to malice, one is always frightened, there are frequent injuries, and one is born in a place where the grains have a bitter taste. Due to wrong view, even though the grain is not small, [136/a] there is little wealth, and one is born without refuge and defenders.

The Ratnavali sums it up:

Though those engaged in nonvirtue desire happiness, 
but where ever they go,
they are crushed by suffering
because of that nonvirtue then and there.


Ogyen said:
If my karma is reallllly bad I might rape back.  If it is really good I might make it my mission to protect children in the world.  My karma has as much to do with the conditions I've cultivated to handle inevitable pain.   Regardless of "who seems at fault", the event placed my being in that time and space and according to previous aspirations and karmic conditions that led me there, and then the choices I have, at the point of needing to take actions, are all based on my awareness (cultivated qualities) that will permit me to decrease or increase suffering as a result of that karma. If I don't know how to manage rape and abuse I might fetishise it as a child and grow up repeating this scenario to others.  If I realize there ARE tools like therapy and meditation and learn all about the cycle of violence, my capacity to learn this is also a karma from cultivated conditions.  My own ignorance is my transparent cage.  You think you have a choice... But much of your choice really is self determined by what qualities you habituate/cultivate.

This is why it is so important to cultivate the positive qualities.  Not because of moral ground, because what you know is how you suffer. The more you integrate, the less any relative event sways you into suffering.


Malcolm wrote:
As the Ratnavali states:

This Dharma liberates one from 
hell realms, preta realms, and animal realms.
and one attains an increase of happiness, wealth, and political power
among devas and humans.

The Buddha said:

The correct mundane view
exists in one who is great;
that prevents going to lower realms
for a thousand eons.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 10:47 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
People who do not meet the Buddha's path, no matter how good their karma is, are like a wasp in a jar.

Jeff H said:
Where does the karma to meet the Buddha's path come from?

Malcolm wrote:
Well, I am sure you have heard the Buddha's teaching that is more likely for a blind sea tortoise who rises to the surface of the ocean every one hundred years to put his head into a golden yoke, than it is for a sentient being to take rebirth as a human being with the eight freedoms and ten endowments.

This leisure and endowment, so hard to acquire
is the attainment of a person’s goals;
but if it is not put to good use in the present,
later on where will this true endowment exist?
-- Bodhicaryāvatāra


As to the wasp thing, the Buddha states:

The three planes of existence blaze with suffering of aging and illness,
here there is no protection from the intensely blazing fire of death,
migrating beings born in the world are always confused,
revolving like bees stuck in a pot.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 10:18 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Unknown said:
While much about the attack remains unclear, a New York Times review of more than 20 videos of its aftermath, an examination of flight records compiled by citizen observers, and interviews with a dozen residents, medics and rescue workers suggest that during a military push to break the will of Douma’s rebels, pro-government forces dropped charges bearing some kind of chemical compound that suffocated at least 43 people and left many more struggling to breathe.

“You imagine yourself on Judgment Day, and there is death all around you,” said Mr. Hanash, the student. “It was a scene that you don’t want anyone to have to see: old men, women and children screaming and suffering.”

Regardless of the munitions used, the attack worked. Hours later, as rescuers lined up bodies in the street, the rebels agreed to hand over the town and be bused with their families to another rebel-held area.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/world/middleeast/syria-chemical-attack-douma.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 10:07 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:


_R_ said:
Is Yeye sacrificing animals tho? In some of the Krodhikali temples people behead goats even though that wasn't the original thing there.

Malcolm wrote:
Kalima and Krodhakali (Black, wrathful Vajrayoginī) are entirely different. The former is a worldly goddess, the later, well, Vajrayoginī.

As for whether or not she engages in this practice, you will have to ask her personally. However, it is standard.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 9:57 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
If we painted our political discussions in terms of karma and its ripening, these conversations would be very different, not so much filled with blame of others as sadness that karma is unerring and foolish sentient beings continue to just build more negative karma over time unless they meet the Buddha's path.

Ogyen said:
... So to your point, I would love to see this discussion (and many others) taken from the standpoint you propose, one of understanding the nature, the causes and the release of suffering

Jeff H said:
I just wanted to bump these comments. But to add that I think it's sectarian to insist that only those who meet the Buddha's path can improve their karma. Anyone who applies the truths of Buddha's path, in terms of loving compassion, is generating positive karma whether they know the Buddha or not. Eventually they will meet Buddha. I think this is HHDL's most important message for the world.

Malcolm wrote:
People who do not meet the Buddha's path, no matter how good their karma is, are like a wasp in a jar.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 9:45 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sure on can and one should. Read a dictionary.

Grigoris said:
We have had this discussion before and I recommended you go ask a black person or a Native American about the distinction between simple and systemic racism.

Malcolm wrote:
There, that's refreshing. You do in fact recognize there is a difference between racism and systemic racism. Good for you. '

The rest of your post is quite typical of the diatribes you have become accustomed to making against members on this forum, due to your position of power and impunity as a moderator. Check your own privilege, dude.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 8:46 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No. Use the dictionary, shaunc is quite correct. What you are talking about is systemic racism, and that is different than simple racism.

Grigoris said:
No.  You cannot separate the two.

Anyway, you should also ask yourself who wrote the definition and for whom.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure on can and one should. Read a dictionary.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 7:08 PM
Title: Re: Are There Different Categories of Buddha's ?
Content:
Fortyeightvows said:
I think she's asking about shravakas and preteyeka buddhas.

yan kong said:
To my understanding these are not Buddhas, even if one has Buddha in the name.

Malcolm wrote:
The liberation of the three is the same. They are all Buddhas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 7:06 PM
Title: Re: On Buddhism and Nominalism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
That dies not make Dharmas universals. A universal is cowness, for example.

Astus said:
But the dharmas could be called universals for actual instances of experience, however, I don't know of anyone who conceived a theoretical list of dharmas existing separately from dharmas as experience, hence they are not universals.

Malcolm wrote:
Son you in fact agree, Dharmas are particulars, not universals.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 7:01 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
Racism is the application of power on this basis.  An Aborigine cannot be racist towards you because you have state and social mechanisms working in your favour

Malcolm wrote:
No. Use the dictionary, shaunc is quite correct. What you are talking about is systemic racism, and that is different than simple racism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 6:37 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Let me outline the main difference between Fascist bullshit and Socialist bullshit for you:

Fascist bullshit always runs along the lines of: the Jews, The Mexicans, the Blacks, the [insert foreign bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.

Socialist bullshit always runs along the lines of: The Corporations, The Capitalists, the Man, the US, the Imperialists, the [insert systemic bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.

Grigoris said:
I imagine that to a white, highly educated, middle-class male living in a largely democratic state in one of world's richest and most powerful imperialist nations, it would seem that way.

Everything looks great through white tinted glasses.

In the other 95% of the world things are a little different. It is all just karma and the ripening of karma. Got great karma, you will be born in a wealthy first world family, free of war and conflict. If your past karma sucks, the slums of Mumbai. If you karma really sucks, Douma in Syria or [insert terrestrial hellhole here].
Which is fine except that it ignores the suffering being caused by the current karma of those in the wealthy first world...  Of course for somebody in your position, it is to be expected that they would ignore (or be unaware of) that aspect.

Malcolm wrote:
Karma does not work that way. There is no such thing as collective karma. If what you are asserting is correct, then even the poorest humans are complicit in the suffering of all animals.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 6:17 PM
Title: Re: On Buddhism and Nominalism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
All buddhist tenets (Sautrantika on up) apart from Sarvastivada, subscribe to Anya-apoha theory, which is the Buddhist refutation of truly existent universals.

Astus said:
It's not a question if they take those dharmas as empty or not, but whether they are conceived as elements behind conventional appearances. They are considered a background layer, even if there are other layers beyond.

Malcolm wrote:
That dies not make Dharmas universals. A universal is cowness, for example.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 6:14 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:



PeterC said:
Nowhere in China will you find that, apart perhaps from a small district in the village of Maotai.

Malcolm wrote:
Or the city of Xining, in which I spent many months.

PeterC said:
Only if you are extremely selective about where you wall around there. Ive been to xining several times since my first visit a few decades ago, and though it is far from my favorite city, its really not that bad

Malcolm wrote:
I was all over the city, but mainly near the old university and Tibetan hospital


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 12:34 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
Yes, I imagine we will.  Just that here in Greece we are living the dream to the fullest:  as the U$ aircraft carriers that launched the missile attacks refuel and re-supply in American bases in Greek ports, refugees fleeing the bombings arrive on our shores seeking protection.  It's a grand situation!

Malcolm wrote:
Let me outline the main difference between Fascist bullshit and Socialist bullshit for you:

Fascist bullshit always runs along the lines of: the Jews, The Mexicans, the Blacks, the [insert foreign bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.

Socialist bullshit always runs along the lines of: The Corporations, The Capitalists, the Man, the US, the Imperialists, the [insert systemic bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.

But its all bullshit because all of this does not involve an understanding of karma.

pothigai said:
Would you also say that liberalism and conservatism are bullshit because they don't involve an understanding of karma?

Malcolm wrote:
Oh absolutely.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 12:34 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In these countries, liquor stores outnumbered grocery stores 30 to 1, similar with the way it is in poorer parts of China today. Why? Drunks are easier to control.

PeterC said:
Nowhere in China will you find that, apart perhaps from a small district in the village of Maotai.

Malcolm wrote:
Or the city of Xining, in which I spent many months.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 7:38 AM
Title: Re: On Buddhism and Nominalism
Content:
MiphamFan said:
What exactly is a "real" number?

I'm still studying discrete mathematics in the context of computer science but I find things such as the set-theoretic definition of numbers strikingly reminiscent and compatible with Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
A real number is by definition something that must be defined on the basis of that fact that it excludes any other quantity. 2 can never be 4, 4 can never be two, or any other number. This accounts for numbers much better than sort platonic absolute number idea.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 6:20 AM
Title: Re: On Buddhism and Nominalism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Only in Sarvastivada.

Astus said:
How so? Who says that conventional phenomena are not based on dharmas?

Malcolm wrote:
All buddhist tenets (Sautrantika on up) apart from Sarvastivada, subscribe to Anya-apoha theory, which is the Buddhist refutation of truly existent universals.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 6:04 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It is all just karma and the ripening of karma. Got great karma, you will be born in a wealthy first world family, free of war and conflict. If your past karma sucks, the slums of Mumbai. If you karma really sucks, Douma in Syria or [insert terrestrial hellhole here]. Is it a sentence? No. Is it "fair." No. But karma, while not "fair," is unerring. If one does not cultivate within oneself positive qualities, getting angry at the fact that others do not cater to one's moral outrage at the suffering in the world never earned anyone any merit any where ever. If we painted our political discussions in terms of karma and its ripening, these conversations would be very different, not so much filled with blame of others as sadness that karma is unerring and foolish sentient beings continue to just build more negative karma over time unless they meet the Buddha's path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 5:58 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
If America did not provide security for NATO for the past 80 years, ya'll would have been Crimea on steroids back in Stalin's era.

Grigoris said:
Maybe, maybe not.  If you travel to former eastern bloc countries like Croatia or the Czech Republic (for example) you may be surprised with what you will see.  Not all the former eastern bloc countries turned out like Bulgaria or Albania (which was aligned with China anyway, as was the former Yugoslavia).

Malcolm wrote:
Umm, I know many, many people through the DC who were raised under Communism in the eastern bloc, they all report it was horrible.

In these countries, liquor stores outnumbered grocery stores 30 to 1, similar with the way it is in poorer parts of China today. Why? Drunks are easier to control.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
We will agree to disagree on the value of the US Hegemony in world history.

Grigoris said:
Yes, I imagine we will.  Just that here in Greece we are living the dream to the fullest:  as the U$ aircraft carriers that launched the missile attacks refuel and re-supply in American bases in Greek ports, refugees fleeing the bombings arrive on our shores seeking protection.  It's a grand situation!

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, Greece needs to get paid too (that is cynicism, in case you don't get it). They are after all part of NATO whether you personally like it or not. On the other hand:
Greece and Turkey Are Inching Toward War:

The relationship between Greece and Turkey has never been easy. The neighboring countries have been at war with each other several times in the 20th century and were close to military conflict over the Greek islet Imia in 1996, before the United States stepped in to avert disaster.

The NATO allies are now at the brink again, goaded by populists on both sides — and this time, Washington is nowhere to be found.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/18/greece-and-turkey-are-inching-toward-war/

And this situation is unfortunately the result of the idiot we have in office in the US.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 5:45 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
We will agree to disagree on the value of the US Hegemony in world history.

Grigoris said:
Yes, I imagine we will.  Just that here in Greece we are living the dream to the fullest:  as the U$ aircraft carriers that launched the missile attacks refuel and re-supply in American bases in Greek ports, refugees fleeing the bombings arrive on our shores seeking protection.  It's a grand situation!

Malcolm wrote:
If America did not provide security for NATO for the past 80 years, ya'll would have been Crimea on steroids back in Stalin's era.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 5:42 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
We will agree to disagree on the value of the US Hegemony in world history.

Grigoris said:
Yes, I imagine we will.  Just that here in Greece we are living the dream to the fullest:  as the U$ aircraft carriers that launched the missile attacks refuel and re-supply in American bases in Greek ports, refugees fleeing the bombings arrive on our shores seeking protection.  It's a grand situation!

Malcolm wrote:
Let me outline the main difference between Fascist bullshit and Socialist bullshit for you:

Fascist bullshit always runs along the lines of: the Jews, The Mexicans, the Blacks, the [insert foreign bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.

Socialist bullshit always runs along the lines of: The Corporations, The Capitalists, the Man, the US, the Imperialists, the [insert systemic bogeyman here] is causing all our problems.

But its all bullshit because all of this does not involve an understanding of karma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 5:35 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Bunch of socialist bullshit.

Grigoris said:
Well that is an intelligent comeback if I have ever seen one.  Very similar to the type of response one would expect to receive on the Stormfront site (or any other alt-Right social network).

Talking about socialists:  Roosevelt, now there was a socialist.

Malcolm wrote:
Roosevelt was not a socialist per se. He however understood the need for social security, etc., and set up social programs to support the elderly, small farms, etc.

What he did not do was set up a centralized, planned economy, which is characteristic of true (Marxist) Socialist governments in general, a model that has proven to be an utter and total failure.

By socialist bullshit, what I am referring to the kneejerk reaction to paint everything about the US in a negative light. It is characteristic of Socialist Newspapers in this country, who would not last five seconds elsewhere, people like Chomsky, etc. I am happy they voice their perspective because it necessary for them to speak freely so the terrible ideas they sometimes espouse can be torn apart and exposed. The same goes for the right. Sunlight is the best purifier. Fascist and socialist bullshit is all pretty much the same to me.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 5:23 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
A Buddha will never ask animals to be sacrificed.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
Ok...why didn't you say this earlier...i would of stopped in my tracks if i knew this.

Malcolm wrote:
One assumes that people are aware that Yoruba, Santeria, Candomble, Voodou, Afro-Caribbean religions in general, are based on blood sacrifice of animals. It is a major reason that these regions of the world are continually wracked with violence and oppression.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
This is a bad thing? You are crazier than I thought.

Grigoris said:
You do not think that an organisation that claims to be about freedom and yet was set up by the president of the world's most powerful nation in order to satisfy his political and military agenda is somewhat hypocritical?  You do not find that strange at all, and yet you consider me crazy???

U$ involvement in the European theater of WWII was for imperialist purposes, purposes which the repercussions of which are still being played out in Europe RIGHT NOW and will continue to played out for some time yet.

Don't be naive Malcolm.

Malcolm wrote:
We will agree to disagree on the value of the US Hegemony in world history.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The US is a Republic.

Grigoris said:
Which is just the Latin word for the Greek term Democracy.

Malcolm wrote:
Synchronic definitions are misleading.

Grigoris said:
The press is not free, it sold itself out ages ago.  It is a slave to the $, so how can it be free?

Malcolm wrote:
False equivalency. Selling ads to pay for paper, ink, offices and staff =/ compromise.

I have far greater trust in private media like the NYT, Post. etc., than gvt. run media like RT, and so on.

YMMV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 5:11 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
Freedom House was established in 1941 in New York City. Its creation was a result of a merger of two groups that had been formed, with the quiet encouragement of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, to encourage popular support for American involvement in World War II at a time when isolationist sentiments were running high in the United States.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a bad thing? You are crazier than I thought. There is no scenario in which Britain, France and Russia could have fended off the Nazis without American involvement in the war.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
You don't need to kill journalists in the US, they are silenced via media monopolies.

Malcolm wrote:
This is also total nonsense.

Grigoris said:
Whereas your fetishisation of the constitution is not nonsense?  Next thing you are going to do is tell me that the U$ is a democracy (not a plutocratic oligarchy based on a military imperialism).

Malcolm wrote:
The US is a Republic. As for "empire," one of the reasons we are so bad at it is our free press, a fact that drives Herr Trump crazy. He would shut down the press tomorrow if he thought he could. Frankly, we like the press more than we like guns. Want to really get people out on the streets in the US? Just try limiting freedom of the press. The fact that we value a free press is why all these crazy lunatic conspiracy theorists on both the right and the left are given free reign to air the febrile contents of their Ids. You've never lived in a country with freedom of speech built into the bones of the country. That does not exist in commonwealth countries such as Britain, OZ, NZ, Canada, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 5:01 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:



Ogyen said:
And also found this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_United_States

Malcolm wrote:
None however, were killed by the US Gvt. This cannot be said of Russia, etc., where the execution of journalists who oppose the state is the status quo.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 4:46 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:



Kunga Lhadzom said:
Is that why everyone is so upset.

Malcolm wrote:
No one is upset by you. And you are being entirely too credulous.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
I didn't mean upset by me...I ment upset about this woman & what she is advertising about herself. .....i don't see it as a new age scam. ..I actually believe this is legit.
It took a year to prepare for this.
The photos. ...
Also there will be a documentary about this comming out soon....

I know there are scams like this a dime a dozen...but i feel in my heart this is not a scam....


Malcolm wrote:
KL, the depth of this person's lack of understanding is colossal. She is claiming that a BLOODTHIRSTY, MUNDANE, SAMSARIC WATER SPIRIT IS A BUDDHA. If you don't understand how utterly mistaken this is...and let's not even get into the rest of her so-called "research."

Further, animals are sacrificed to Oshun, water animals in particular. In Candomble, frog, ducks,  are offered to her.

In Santeria, castrated goat, hens, pigeons and guinea hen, and pheasants

In Yuruba: Castrated goat, chicken and pigeon.

A Buddha will never ask animals to be sacrificed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 3:56 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The US government does not kill journalists. We actually have a free press. It is built into our constitution. So, that is a clue about whose "lies" one should find more reliable.

Grigoris said:
You don't need to kill journalists in the US, they are silenced via media monopolies.

Malcolm wrote:
This is also total nonsense.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 3:52 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
conebeckham said:
really means nothing, though, unless one is actively engaged in practice using these systems.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
Is that why everyone is so upset.

Malcolm wrote:
No one is upset but you. And you are being entirely too credulous.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 1:38 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and the Russian State is so reliable, strong believers in a free press:
A Russian journalist who reported on political scandals linked to President Vladimir Putin's associates and the death of Russian mercenaries in Syria has died in hospital after a mysterious fall from his apartment. CBS News partner network BBC News reports that neighbors found Maxim Borodin badly injured on the ground outside his fifth floor apartment in Yekaterinburg on April 12.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-journalist-maxim-borodin-dies-mysterious-fall-yekaterinburg/

Grigoris said:
CBS news?  So it all basically comes down to who's lies you want to believe.

Well I ain't buying either side's lies.

Malcolm wrote:
The US government does not kill journalists. We actually have a free press. It is built into our constitution. So, that is a clue about whose "lies" one should find more reliable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 1:03 AM
Title: Re: On Buddhism and Nominalism
Content:
Astus said:
Buddhism is filled with universals, they are known as dharmas. The dharmas are not considered derivatives of particulars, it's the other way around.

Malcolm wrote:
Only in Sarvastivada.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 12:40 AM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Revolutions,  punitive actions, as well as deliberate oppression, only lead one way: to lower realms.

cyril said:
What about the underlying intention? What if one leads a revolution out of genuine love for his suffering fellow men?

"... When I think of all the misfortunes in life that lie in wait for a man, of the fact that a man is so often deprived of all he is most attached to, my thoughts again tell me that in life one has to love with all one’s heart and soul that which is not transitory, that which cannot be taken away from a man and thanks to which his attachment to individuals and things becomes possible....Love for suffering, oppressed mankind, the eternal longing in the heart of everyone for beauty and happiness, strength and harmony, urges us to seek a way out and to find salvation here, in life itself, and shows us the way out. " - fragment from a letter of Felix Dzerzhinsky.

Yup, that Dzerzhinsky. So what about a guy like him who, while definitely blinded by ignorance, is nevertheless driven by a genuine compassion?

Malcolm wrote:
Non-virtuous deeds of voice and body are driven by three things, malice, greed, or ignorance.

As St. Benedict observed, "Hell is full of good intentions."

Often people think they are acting out of compassion, when all they are doing is accumulating causes for birth in lower realms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 12:37 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
Everybody involved has a reason to lie.

Theresa May is being taken to task by the opposition in the UK parliament for ordering the attack without getting consent from the Members of Parliament.  Seems that her husband is the major stock holder in the arms company that produced the rockets used in the attack and his (hers?  their?) stocks jumped through the roof of the exchange following the attack. https://www.rt.com/uk/424392-may-husbands-capital-group/

You still want that bridge?

Malcolm wrote:
You already bought it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 19th, 2018 at 12:35 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
I don't.
Well I have a bridge for sale if you are looking for one.

Just read a news article in the Greek press (sourcing Sveta TV) saying that the Russians have found a chemical weapons laboratory in Douma with ingredients for mustard and chlorine gas.  The quoted chemical warfare expert Alexander Rodionof says the laboratory was under rebel control up until the liberation of Douma by Syrian State Forces. http://tvxs.gr/news/kosmos/apothiki-me-oysies-gia-paraskeyi-ximikon-oplon-entopisan-oi-rosoi-stin-ntoyma


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and the Russian State is so reliable, strong believers in a free press:
A Russian journalist who reported on political scandals linked to President Vladimir Putin's associates and the death of Russian mercenaries in Syria has died in hospital after a mysterious fall from his apartment. CBS News partner network BBC News reports that neighbors found Maxim Borodin badly injured on the ground outside his fifth floor apartment in Yekaterinburg on April 12.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-journalist-maxim-borodin-dies-mysterious-fall-yekaterinburg/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 10:59 PM
Title: Re: Collective karma
Content:
shaunc said:
At the moment in South Africa there's political parties calling for the killing of white people. Considering white South Africa's previous treatment of black people couldn't this be a case of collective karma ripening.

Astus said:
It rather sounds like anger.

"He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.
( https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.budd.html.3)

Grigoris said:
Indeed.  The actions of white people in the past is ripening as anger against them.  The anger of the African people in the present will ripen as...

Malcolm wrote:
The anger, desire and ignorance  of those people in less fortunate positions in samsara will lead to their lower birth in samsara if they act on it an carry out nonvirtuous deeds. Just as the anger, desire, ignorance of of people in more fortunate positions in samsara will likewise lead to their lower birth in samsara. However, the patience, compassion, and wisdom of people in less fortunate positions in samsara will lead to their higher birth in samsara, just as the patience, compassion, and wisdom of people in more fortunate positions in samsara will lead to their higher birth in samsara.

Karma is unerring. While one's birth in more or less fortunate places in samsara is a result of one's past karma, one's future place in samsara is assured by one's actions in this life. Thus, actions due to hatred, desire, and ignorance inevitably take one but one way: down.

Revolutions,  punitive actions, as well as deliberate oppression, only lead one way: to lower realms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 10:40 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
I find it hard to believe.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: Help on shamatha
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Samadhi/dhyāna is a natural mental factor, we all have it. The problem is that we naturally allow this mental factor to rest on afflictive objects such as HBO, books, video games, etc.

Śamatha practice is the discipline of harnessing our natural predisposition for concentration, and shifting it from afflictive conditioned phenomena to nonafflictive conditioned phenomena, i.e., the phenomena of the path. We do this in order to create a well tilled field for the growth of vipaśyāna. Śamatha ultimately allows us to have mental stability and suppresses afflictive mental factors so that we may eventually give rise to authentic insight into the nature of reality. While it is possible to have vipaśyāna without cultivating śamatha, it is typically quite unstable and lacks the power to effectively eradicate afflictive patterning from our minds.  Therefore, the basis of all practice in Buddhadharma, from Abhidharma to the Great Perfection, is the cultivation of śamatha as a preliminary practice for germination of vipaśyāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 8:36 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
she has no understanding at all of what Tibetan Buddhism is

Kunga Lhadzom said:
This is all new to her...she is learning ?

Malcolm wrote:
How can an emanation of a Buddha be held to be learning what Buddhism is?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 5:56 AM
Title: Re: ‘Dharmas do not arise’
Content:


Wayfarer said:
By the way - here’s a tip for those of European background with some knowledge of the Western philosophical tradition - T R V Murti, The Central Philosophy of Buddhism. Murti was an Indian scholar trained in Western philosophy.  This book was published in the nineteen fifties but in my opinion is an excellent book although somewhat deprecated by current Buddhist  scholarship. But it was a formative book for my spiritual development, and also my first encounter with Kant.


boundless said:
Hello again,

thank you for the suggestion!

Why it is criticized by current scholarship?

Malcolm wrote:
Murti mistook Madhyamaka for a form of Kantian Idealism, rather than the austere nominalism which in fact it is.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 5:25 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
conebeckham said:
I find this whole idea of the recognition of Yeye to be contrived--I'll allow that there may be good motivations, perhaps, but in the end so much of this is just speculative and "wrong." I mean, really, "dreams coinciding"---this sort of thing is easily fabricated, and impossible to objectively ascertain. It tests credulity.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
Yet.. SHE had the KARMA to meet him, and discuss their dreams ....and HE was convinced enough that SHE IS THE emanation of Mamaki...and took ONE year to prepare for this elaborate thing....don't you think something could have or would have stopped this if it wasn't valid ?    Do you think the Oracle of Tibet is ignorant ?

Malcolm wrote:
Ummm, there is only one person reporting this, herself, and given her other statements online which clearly show she has no understanding at all of what Tibetan Buddhism is and what "emanation" means...well, you put two and two together. After all, what do we know, we are just a bunch of white colonial oppressors trying to keep the indigenous people down...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 5:23 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:


Kunga Lhadzom said:
Also did if ever occur to you that we are intoxicated with the thinking, culture and religion of the indigenous people of Tibet ?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhadarma is a universal religion, and it certainly is not indigenous to Tibet. It was important from India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 1:57 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Indigenous" people use cars, plastic, etc., at basically the same rate every one else does.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
Yeah, but before they were influenced, corrupted, and CONDITIONED by Western modernization........they were living  more harmonious with the earth.....

Malcolm wrote:
So were we.

Do you want to know why there is a Sahara desert. Humans made it from grazing goats. You want to know where all the megafauna in N. America went, they were killed of thousands of years ago by "native" Americans.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 1:54 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
Do you ever answer questions?

Malcolm wrote:
What's the fun in that.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 1:53 AM
Title: Re: Academic learning is not directly proportional to realization
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Serious much?



Astus said:
A monk asked, “What do you say about finding meaning in speech?”
Baofu said, “What speech is that?”
The monk looked down and didn’t answer.
Baofu said, “The sword of function is like lightning. Thinking about it is futile!”
(Zen's Chinese Heritage, p 302)

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely too serious.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 1:47 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You realize that all human beings are "indigenous" to the earth, right? People everywhere are the same: driven by desire, hatred, and ignorance.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
What I'm trying to say is....it's modern man,that has wrecked the Earth with his advanced technology and industrialzation...people that respect the earth and live closer to it ...have more respect and damage it less....

Ask any indigenous shaman.....i'm sure you have known a few....

Malcolm wrote:
"Indigenous" people use cars, plastic, etc., at basically the same rate every one else does.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 1:29 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Is there an echo in here?

dzogchungpa said:
More like a mirror, friend. Have to run.

Malcolm wrote:
You should find a better mirror, one that isn't damaged.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 1:28 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
PeterC said:
. If I were a climate scientist, I would probably be a bit upset that there are people out there who think that the self-appointed goddess of whatever’s dream is more valuable than their years of research.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
The indigenous people of the Earth are not the destroyers of it......only the so called "civilized ", modern society..... with all its scientists, etc., that care more about politics and prestige ...

Malcolm wrote:
You realize that all human beings are "indigenous" to the earth, right? People everywhere are the same: driven by desire, hatred, and ignorance.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 12:58 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:




dzogchungpa said:
Dude, you are, like, totally conditioning me.

Malcolm wrote:
How so?


dzogchungpa said:
Serious much?

Malcolm wrote:
Is there an echo in here?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:




dzogchungpa said:
I don't know, but a serious response to such a question would require definitions of, e.g., 'manifest', 'trance medium' etc. I can imagine there might be a good reason to speak that way at times, though.

Malcolm wrote:
Serious responses don't seem to be part of your repertoire these days.


dzogchungpa said:
Dude, you are, like, totally conditioning me.

Malcolm wrote:
How so?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 12:40 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:




dzogchungpa said:
Mamaki is a symbol representing the purity or, dare I say it, sacredness of water so, no.

Malcolm wrote:
Do symbols, let alone buddhas, manifest through trance mediums?


dzogchungpa said:
I don't know, but a serious response to such a question would require definitions of, e.g., 'manifest', 'trance medium' etc. I can imagine there might be a good reason to speak that way at times, though.

Malcolm wrote:
Serious responses don't seem to be part of your repertoire these days.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
People are constantly having dreams of cataclysms.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
Yes but their dreams MATCHED PERFECTLY IN THE SAME DETAILS.....like twin dreams....

Malcolm wrote:
You are free to attach your beliefs to whatever people and ideas you like. Just don't expect others to grant them the same credulity.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Kunga Lhadzom said:
Well..I think it's pretty AUSPICIOUS , that they BOTH HAD THE SAME DREAM ....at the same time or within days......

Malcolm wrote:
People are constantly having dreams of cataclysms. I think it is a little late for these guys:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 18th, 2018 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
She is clearly not a Buddhist.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
Is Mamaki a Buddhist ?


dzogchungpa said:
Mamaki is a symbol representing the purity or, dare I say it, sacredness of water so, no.

Malcolm wrote:
Do symbols, let alone buddhas, manifest through trance mediums?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 11:45 PM
Title: Re: Academic learning is not directly proportional to realization
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
If that is the case, than you and I have been found out for the frauds that we are.

Astus said:
Quotes are meant to lend credibility to the content, thus avoiding the misperception of being considered the source. It is also standard academic (and Buddhist) procedure. E.g. Shinran's Kyogyoshinsho is like 90% quotes. Therefore I can keep drinking Coke, etc., without worrying about what I share on FB.

Malcolm wrote:
Serious much?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 9:21 PM
Title: Re: Academic learning is not directly proportional to realization
Content:
Ogyen said:
The point is to not confuse academic learning for realization, which happens a lot.

Malcolm wrote:
people read some eloquent words and think the person who wrote them is a great realizer

Astus said:
It is just forgetting not to rely on the person but rely on the teaching. A common mistake. On the other hand:

'It's through discussion that a person's discernment may be known, and then only after a long period, not a short period; by one who is attentive, not by one who is inattentive; by one who is discerning, not by one who is not discerning'
( https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.192.than.html )

Malcolm wrote:
If that is the case, than you and I have been found out for the frauds that we are.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 9:14 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Have at it Yeshe. Save the world. As far as the Aro thing goes, my story had exactly zero effect on anyone. And no matter what one thinks of Chogyam, in general, Aro students are decent folks, more like creative anachronism enthusiasts than a cult, like NKT.

Mantrik said:
Oh, I think you underestimate.......I learned a lot about Aro, for example the Dudjom link, and it certainly changed my view to  a more positive one, not because of 'conditioning' but simply because of the new information.

The same would be true here. I still ask of anyone knows why the Kuten performed this odd ritual, if the Lama really is what she says she is, etc. because that information will help people decide whether to get involved with them.  I think that is something DW does quite well.

It's the old wear a shoe and don't try and cover the world with leather principle, for sure, but it doesn't hurt to help a few other people find a good pair of shoes or avoid using ones with no soles.

Malcolm wrote:
She is clearly not a Buddhist. This will be obvious to anyone within 5 seconds. I suspect that the Kuten was just involved trance medium diplomacy. Probably has no idea about what she will do with any of this at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 7:13 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:





dzogchungpa said:
Aren't you conditioning Mantrik by saying this?

Malcolm wrote:
He is quite free to do as he wishes. What I am referring to is the inevitable campaign to route out people of whom we disapprove. If I was into that, I would start with you. But, then, who would post irrelevancies and cute nothings to challenge our patience?

Mantrik said:
I don't believe anyone is being conditioned by being presented with facts, in this case that the claims being made show little understanding of Vajrayana. I don't think it is conditioning anyone to ask why a Kuten would get involved or indeed a 3 year retreat Lama with decades of Vajrayana practice.  That is not a witch hunt, and on DW I think one of the useful functions members can perform is to point out uncomfortable truths. As you say, people can do as they wish, but many do so having been better informed from reading DW discussions.

I used to 'condition' my hands by punching straw and concrete as a kid, from 'Teach Yourself Karate' (Bruce Tegner?). It would have been better to have a good teacher and guidance to 'condition' my mind. Sometimes, it is a bit like that here, as we see people engaged in things which are pointless, painful or harmful.... Helping them reach a point where they can make a more informed decision is not 'conditioning' them, except to the extent that anyone may read anything and be affected by it. Hopefully, some of the threads here are useful in informing us all, as with the Aro g'Ter one, where your own input was extensive and very useful in enabling those interested to form their own views.

Malcolm wrote:
Have at it Yeshe. Save the world. As far as the Aro thing goes, my story had exactly zero effect on anyone. And no matter what one thinks of Chogyam, in general, Aro students are decent folks, more like creative anachronism enthusiasts than a cult, like NKT.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 7:12 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Sonam Wangchug said:
A hot mess.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, however, there is no world in which a campaign to inform everyone she is suffering from severe misconceptions will have any effect on anyone who has the (sad) karma to wind up being her student.

And, Dorje Drakden may be engaged in bringing Oshun to heel. After all, even though Pehar was tamed by Guru P, it took many successive episodes of taming by the mahāisiddhas of Tibet to fully bring him to heel as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 7:06 PM
Title: Re: Academic learning is not directly proportional to realization
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, people read some eloquent words and think the person who wrote them is a great realizer, when what latter really do when not engaged in logorrhea is smoking butts, eating junk food, drinking Coke (cause it's the real thing), and chasing tail.

Grigoris said:
And what exactly is wrong with this sort of behaviour?  This was a path for some Mahasiddhas.

Malcolm wrote:
Are you accusing mahāsiddhas of engaging in empty logorrhea? How dare you. Incidentally, engaging in the other behaviors means mahāsiddhas have no use for path any longer.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 7:05 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:





dzogchungpa said:
Aren't you conditioning Mantrik by saying this?

Malcolm wrote:
He is quite free to do as he wishes. What I am referring to is the inevitable campaign to route out people of whom we disapprove. If I was into that, I would start with you. But, then, who would post irrelevancies and cute nothings to challenge our patience?


dzogchungpa said:
Hey, now you're conditioning me!

Malcolm wrote:
That is not possible, you are like the Id of Dharmawheel gone amuck.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 6:51 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Mantrik said:
What on earth are the Nechung Kuten and a supposedly experienced Lama both doing then?
Either they know this is nonsense and are supporting it or, following your point, they don't know enough about TB to know it is nonsense. The third option is that the Kuten was a bit casual about such things , and the Lama deluded or willing to exploit the new age spiritual marketplace this way.  Which version do you favour?

Either way, I'm not sure being gentle is going to eradicate the exploitation of saviour-seeking new agers.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not our job to condition other people.



dzogchungpa said:
Aren't you conditioning Mantrik by saying this?

Malcolm wrote:
He is quite free to do as he wishes. What I am referring to is the inevitable campaign to route out people of whom we disapprove. If I was into that, I would start with you. But, then, who would post irrelevancies and cute nothings to challenge our patience?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 6:08 AM
Title: Re: Academic learning is not directly proportional to realization
Content:



Ogyen said:
You can learn from anything.  The point is NOT how you learn OR that academic discussion is useless.  The point is to not confuse academic learning for realization, which happens a lot.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, people read some eloquent words and think the person who wrote them is a great realizer, when what latter really do when not engaged in logorrhea is smoking butts, eating junk food, drinking Coke (cause it's the real thing), and chasing tail.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 5:40 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
PSM said:
People might find the info on this site useful for context: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Syria

Whatever actually is going on over in Syria, it's obviously being used as a chessboard by many actors.

Malcolm wrote:
A nice list of unsound, conspiracy-theory minded crapola.

US Foreign Policy incompetence is not a conspiracy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 5:30 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
I doubt this is a fabrication, and frankly, I do not suspect the people involved of running a con. Their motivation seems sincere. They just know very little about the trance medium tradition in Tibet, they know almost nothing of Tibetan Buddhism in general, and they certainly do not understand the concept of worldly entities being emanations, or messengers, or servants, of awakened beings. So, with that in mind, we should be a little gentle with these people.

Mantrik said:
What on earth are the Nechung Kuten and a supposedly experienced Lama both doing then?
Either they know this is nonsense and are supporting it or, following your point, they don't know enough about TB to know it is nonsense. The third option is that the Kuten was a bit casual about such things , and the Lama deluded or willing to exploit the new age spiritual marketplace this way.  Which version do you favour?

Either way, I'm not sure being gentle is going to eradicate the exploitation of saviour-seeking new agers.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not our job to condition other people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 5:12 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Chemical Weapons Experts Blocked From Site of Syria Attack, Officials Say

LONDON — Western officials accused Syria and Russia on Monday of preventing weapons inspectors from reaching the site of a suspected chemical attack by the Syrian government that led to airstrikes by the United States and its allies over the weekend.

Inspectors from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons arrived in Syria on Saturday, but two days later, they still had not reached Douma, the Damascus suburb where about 70 people were killed in the attack on April 7. Syrian and Russian forces have captured the area from rebels.

The inspectors are going to the scene to take samples and interview people, but “they are currently being prevented from doing so by the regime and the Russians,” Prime Minister Theresa May of Britain said in Parliament on Monday afternoon.

Even as the war in Syria exacts a fearful toll on the ground, discussion of the suspected chemical attack, like so much of the international posturing about the war, was wrapped in a fog of contradiction and confusion. Nations made charges and countercharges, claiming to have damning but secret evidence about each other’s conduct, with Russia in particular spinning an array of theories of varying degrees of plausibility.

Syrian and Russian officials have told the O.P.C.W. team “that there were still pending security issues to be worked out before any deployment could take place,” Ahmet Uzumcu, the organization’s director general, told its executive council on Monday. The meeting was held in private, but the organization released the prepared statements of Mr. Uzumcu and some other officials.

The British delegation to the organization wrote on Twitter: “Russia & Syria have not yet allowed access to Douma. Unfettered access essential. Russia & Syria must cooperate.” Other Western diplomats confirmed that Syria and Russia were impeding the team.

Senior Russian diplomats said it was the United Nations, not Syria or Russia, that had prevented inspectors from entering Douma. “The problem was the absence of the U.N. Secretariat security department’s approval for O.P.C.W. experts to visit Douma,” Sergei A. Ryabkov, deputy foreign minister of Russia, told reporters, according to the news agency Interfax.

A spokesman for the United Nations, Stéphane Dujarric, disputed the Russian explanation. “The U.N. has given them all the necessary clearances,” he said by telephone. “We’re supporting the team as much as we can.”

Later at his regular noon briefing, Mr. Dujarric said of the O.P.C.W. experts: “We’ve not denied them any sort of clearance.”

Mr. Dujarric declined to say whether Secretary General António Guterres would demand that Russia and Syria provide the experts with access to the Douma site. But the spokesman said Mr. Guterres wanted the investigation to move forward “so we can have a full picture of all the facts.”

The O.P.C.W. declined to comment, and did not even say whether its inspectors had reached Douma, saying in a statement, “We are unable to share operational details.”

The United States ambassador to the organization said at the meeting on Monday that Russia could be trying to conceal evidence of chemical weapons.

“It is our understanding the Russians may have visited the attack site,” the ambassador, Kenneth D. Ward, said. “We are concerned they may have tampered with it with the intent of thwarting the efforts of the O.P.C.W. fact-finding mission to conduct an effective investigation.”

In an interview with the BBC, Sergey V. Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, said, “I can guarantee that Russia has not tampered with the site.”

The United States and its allies Britain and France used missiles on Saturday to strike targets in Syria that they said had been involved in producing chemical weapons, which President Bashar al-Assad’s government denies having used.

Even before the O.P.C.W. inspectors arrived in Syria, the Western allies said they had ample evidence that the country had dropped a chemical agent on Douma, and that it had used chemical weapons many times during the seven-year civil war.

East-West tensions have been high since Britain accused Russia of using a powerful nerve agent to poison a Russian former spy living in England and his daughter. The Kremlin has denied the accusation, which set off the expulsion of hundreds of diplomats and a series of economic measures against Russia.

“It is the style of today’s London to blame Moscow for everything and ascribe certain actions to which we bear no relation whatsoever,” Mr. Ryabkov said.

Russian and Syrian officials have suggested that the chemical attack in Douma never occurred, or that it was staged by rebel forces or Western powers as an excuse for attacking Syria. Mr. Lavrov accused Britain of playing a part in the alleged ruse.

The Syrian military, with help from its Russian and Iranian allies, this month retook control of eastern Ghouta, a suburban area that was the last major rebel-held enclave near Damascus. Douma was the last part of the region to fall."


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/16/world/middleeast/syria-douma-chemical-attack.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 1:20 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Actually, Stalin traded Greece to Churchill in return for Romania in 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentages_agreement

Grigoris said:
On paper, yes.

Malcolm wrote:
My point was that Greece, like the rest of eastern Europe and the Balkans, were like cards to be traded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 12:51 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Communists and Fascists in the end amount to the same thing: concentration camps and mass killings. Don't forget, Stalin abandoned Greece.

Grigoris said:
I can't say for sure if this is true.  You see:  Communists did not occupy Greece, execute tens of thousands of people, deport the vast majority of the Jewish population to death camps and purposefully starve tens of thousands of the non-combatant population to death.  The Nazis did.  I don't know if the Communists would have done this had they gained power, but I know the Nazis did.  So...

And Stalin did not abandon Greece.  The Greek Communist Party was being supplied with weapons and support via Yugoslavia, when Tito broke off ties with the USSR and sided with Mao, the supply route through Yugoslavia was cut off.  You could ask:  Why did they not continue to supply the Greek Communist Party through Bulgaria?  Well, because Bulgaria and Greece were involved in a war with each other since Greece was expelling the Bulgarian Nazi collaborationist government from Greek territories.  Don't forget that Bulgaria did not join the Eastern Bloc until after 1946.  We also have to remember that Bulgaria and Russia never got on well, not even before the East-West divide, which is why they sided with Germany in both World Wars.  And Greece and Bulgaria had been at conflict since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.  By the time Stalin sold out Greece, the situation was beyond redemption anyway.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, Stalin traded Greece to Churchill in return for Romania in 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentages_agreement


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 17th, 2018 at 12:04 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The Allies, Britain specifically, propped up a Hard Right government in Greece following WWII, in the early days of the first Cold War (we are in a second, now).

Grigoris said:
Hard right?  That is an understatement!  A government composed of Nazi collaborators!  The British then brought in a Bavarian based royal family and ruled Greece via them for 3 years, before the far-right (Amerikan backed) military junta took over power for 6 years.  Let us also not forget Britain's role in the invasion and (ongoing) partition of Cyprus.

And even before all of this there was the Italian Fascist attempted invasion and occupation (finally pulled off with help from their friends the German Nazis).  And the German Nazi occupation which (together with the Italians and Bulgarians) lead to the largest number of Greek deaths in modern history (barring the liberation from the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent displacement of Greeks from Asia Minor): around 70,000 people were executed.  That figure does not include the number of Greeks that died during the enforced starvation during the occupation (around 50,000 dead).

As you can see, the only major European power that Greece does not have a (direct) issue with is France.

Malcolm wrote:
Communists and Fascists in the end amount to the same thing: concentration camps and mass killings. Don't forget, Stalin abandoned Greece.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2018 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Kunga Lhadzom said:
You'd think this event would also be publicised in prominent Tibetan news papers, websites, etc.  Also Indian news sources....



I haven't investigated that yet..but it would of popped up in other Google searches. ...

conebeckham said:
Unless it's total and complete fabrication, in which case legit media would steer clear.

Malcolm wrote:
I doubt this is a fabrication, and frankly, I do not suspect the people involved of running a con. Their motivation seems sincere. They just know very little about the trance medium tradition in Tibet, they know almost nothing of Tibetan Buddhism in general, and they certainly do not understand the concept of worldly entities being emanations, or messengers, or servants, of awakened beings. So, with that in mind, we should be a little gentle with these people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2018 at 8:10 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Indeed the Buddha gives teachings in three ways: directly with his own voice, by blessing, or by permission.

Tsongkhapafan said:
Thank you for your reply. I personally do not understand why oracles are necessary, especially if the majority of beings who speak through them are worldly beings. Why seek the advice of a worldly being? It is better to rely upon the Three Jewels and upon wisdom.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not merely a majority, all entities who speak through mediums are worldly beings. Buddhas have no need of depending on trance mediums.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2018 at 7:40 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Kaung said:
I wouldn't regard someone posting such a thing as being knowledgable in vajrayana.Now,I'm very convinced that she's just part of that new age family who wants to use vajrayana for their own ends.

cyril said:
Oh, c'mon, they have Dorje Legba in Vajrayana and they have Papa Legba in Voodoo; can't you see the connection?

PeterC said:
Absolutely. And the connections go further: Sekhmet is clearly the same as Simhamukha, both are connected to Lions and start with the letter S. Thoth is connected with scribes, and he holds a staff that might from the right angle look a bit like a weapon, similar to a sword perhaps, so obviously he's Manjushri. Before we know it we will have discovered an entire Afro-Indo-Tibetan pantheon!

Malcolm wrote:
New addition to Liber 777. More seriously, though, this kind of syncretism, (aka cultural appropriation) is to be expected. The Tibetans did it too, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2018 at 7:15 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:




dzogchungpa said:
Perhaps, but I do hope that we can keep arguing about the oracle stuff.



Malcolm wrote:
Predicted response: Sherab will argue that precedence is not sufficiently reasonable.....

Sherab said:
This is really uncalled for since I have already stated that it is both unskillful and unnecessary for a Buddha to manifest through a medium.  But that does not imply that the Buddha does not have the power to manifest through a medium.  The absence of evidence of a Buddha manifesting through a medium can support the claim that such a manifestation would be unskillful and unnecessary but it does not support the claim that the Buddha does not have the power to manifest through a medium.

Malcolm wrote:
In other words, as I predicted, you are arguing that precedence is not sufficiently reasonable to eliminate the claim the Buddha can speak through a trance medium. Sigh.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2018 at 7:11 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:


Sherab said:
So how does that makes it impossible for a Buddha to manifest specifically through a medium since having no intentions does not preclude the Buddha from manifesting as as anything anyway.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure it does, a buddha cannot manifest as a mara, for example. All the activities of a buddha are determined by a buddha”s prior path aspirations.

Sherab said:
Are you implying that a Buddha MUST BE manifesting as a mara if he manifests through a medium?

Are you also implying that there is no possibility for the Buddha to manifest as a mara in specific instances that are consistent with the Buddha's prior path aspirations?

Malcolm wrote:
You really do have the strangest way of putting things. How can a Buddha manifest as the personification of delusion and self-grasping? As a general rule, anything or person that offers a distraction from the three trainings of the path— discipline (ṡīla), one-pointed concentration (samadhi), and wisdom (prajñā) — can also be regarded as a personification of Mara. Thus, how can a buddha offer distractions from the path of awakening? For what possible reason?

Any entity which manifests through a trance medium and claims to be either a buddha or an āryabodhisattva is necessarily a māra, and further, anyone who claims an entity who manifests through a trance medium is a buddha or āryabodhisattva is either mistaken due to ignorance or is deluded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2018 at 5:25 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Snowbear said:
@Grigoris, It sounds like Greeks are tolerant of US-EU only out of practical realities. Why are Greeks ambivalent towards the US-EU?

Malcolm wrote:
The Allies, Britain specifically, propped up a Hard Right government in Greece following WWII, in the early days of the first Cold War (we are in a second, now).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2018 at 5:16 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:




dzogchungpa said:
BTW, it looks like this page has been taken down.

Malcolm wrote:
That was wise of them.


dzogchungpa said:
Perhaps, but I do hope that we can keep arguing about the oracle stuff.



Malcolm wrote:
Predicted response: Sherab will argue that precedence is not sufficiently reasonable.

Tsongkhapa fan will bring up the fact that Tsongkhapa seems to have used two mediums in his career: a Nyingmapa Lama through whom he had a conversation with Vajrapani to remove his doubts about Dzogchen teachings; and Lama Umapa, through whom he had conversations with Mañjuśrī and clarified his doubts about Madhyamaka. Frankly, in my reading of these accounts, it actually appears that it was on account of Tsongkhapa's own pure vision that he perceived these masters as Vajrapani and Mañjuśrī, since the former was someone whose main practice was Vajrapani Maṇḍalacakra, and the latter was someone whose main practice was Vajrabhairava, respectively. However, the way that Khedrupje composed the secret bio of Tsongkhapa, it is made to appear as if Tsongkhapa relied on Umapa as a sku rten, a trance medium, and this is surely a mistake. There is no fault at all in having pure vision of one's master as this bodhisattva or that, or even as Buddha Vajradhara in person. But there is a very great fault in suggesting that buddhas and bodhisattvas on the stages resort to trance mediums to speak the Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2018 at 4:56 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
This is interesting:
https://www.vajrayanaworld.com/long-bits/nechung-oracle-recognizes-yeye-omileye

BTW, it looks like this page has been taken down.

Malcolm wrote:
That was wise of them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2018 at 4:50 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Sure it does, a buddha cannot manifest as a mara, for example. All the activities of a buddha are determined by a buddha”s prior path aspirations.

cyril said:
I imagine that, if Buddhas emanate into the preta realm, they would do so in a form able to communicate Dharma to the pretas. I therefore assume that such a preta nirmanakaya would actually manifest as a preta just like Buddhas manifested in the human realm in the form of human nirmanakayas. I also imagine that such a preta nirmanakaya would possess all the physical abilities of a regular, non-enlightened preta in the same way Sakyamuni, Padmasambhava, Garab Dorje were capable of doing all the normal physical actions of a non-enlightened human being. Now, if this line of reasoning is correct, it follows that a preta nirmanakaya should also be able to possess mediums and oracles, just like non-enlightened spirits do. But since the general consensus is that such thing does not happen, I wonder what is wrong with the reasoning above.

Malcolm wrote:
Jvalamukha teaches the Dharma to pretas in their own form. Śākyamuni Buddha teaches Dharma to humans in their own form, etc. Also, this doctrine is very specific to the mandala of peaceful and wrathful deities, and should not be confused with the Buddha's actual career. The Buddha himself, during his sojourn in this world, appeared in the hell realms to beings there, and also the deva realms to the beings there.

As mentioned above, the mode of teachings of the Buddha has been ascertained to be three and three only: the vacana of his own voice, blessed vacana, and permitted vacana, and no fourth kind has ever been mentioned or ascertained such as vacana through trance mediums, channelers, tarot cards, seances, and so on. This is distinct from the Tibetan custom of the using trance mediums of reliable, mundane entities such as Nechung, Tseringma, and so on for oracular predictions about worldly matters.

The invocation of āryas such as Mañjuśrī, Śrī Devi, and so on for divinations must be understood as an invocation of their blessing, not their presence through mediums — thus it is completely different and must not be confused with the possession of trance mediums by worldly spirits.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2018 at 4:44 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Tsongkhapafan said:
Can someone explain coherently and with valid reasons why a Buddha cannot speak through another living being?

There is the classic example of the Heart Sutra being delivered by Buddha through Avalokiteshvara, for example. This is an example of Guru Yoga.

If a worldly spirit can communicate through an oracle - in other words, if such a spirit can enter their body - then it goes without saying that Buddhas can do so too. Buddhas are not limited beings, their speech has extraordinary qualities that cannot be understood by ordinary beings. Their words can be heard as the sound of the wind through trees, from Buddha's ushnisha and in the Pure Land, even the birds make the sound of Dharma, so why isn't it possible for a Buddha to communicate through another living being?

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed the Buddha gives teachings in three ways: directly with his own voice, by blessing, or by permission.

However, there isn't a single example in the sūtras or tantras where the Buddha gives teachings by literally possessing and then speaking through the body of another being in the manner of being a channelled entity. Further, these three modes of teaching were confined to the duration during which the Buddha was physically present in his nirmanakāya in this world, 2500 years ago. For this reason, apart from teachings of the sambhogkāya revealed by the mahāsiddhas of India and Tibet, there have been no new Dharmas in the world since then.

You might suppose, "In the world other buddhas have arisen, albeit not supreme nirmanakāyas, what is to prevent them from possessing the bodies of others and speaking through them."

1) No more than three modes of the Buddha's granting teachings have been identified in the sūtras by the paṇḍitas of India and Tibet. 2) There is no example in sūtra or tantra of such an occurrence, in other words, there is not a single example of Buddha giving teachings through a medium (sku rten).  3) Since the Buddha's nirmanakāya is no longer present in the world, also the three kinds of teachings are complete. 4) Among the beings the Buddha blessed or permitted to teach Dharma, it is only āryaśrāvakas and āryabodhisattvas who received such blessing or permission. 5) By inference, worldly devas and humans are not proper vehicles to be given permission to speak for the Buddha via blessing and permission since there is no example of Buddha giving such worldly people blessing or permission to speak for him. 6) Māra can appear in any guise, including that of a buddha or a bodhisattva, so it is unsound to consider the utterances of trance mediums to be valid Dharma. How is one to determine whether such teachings have a valid source or not?  We have already seen the negative effects in Tibet of mistaking worldly entities who possess mediums as buddhas.

Therefore, the idea that buddhas can speak through trance mediums must be utterly rejected both because it is an irrational supposition and because if it is accepted that such a phenomena is valid, many distorted teachings will enter the world, as is already the case with respect to those insufficiently wise to avoid such spurious teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, April 16th, 2018 at 1:24 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:


TharpaChodron said:
Queen Bey is not my bag.  I have issues with her being equated to a modern day Angela Davis.

Malcolm wrote:
Only posted for the Oshun relevance. I prefer much Bonobo, and anonymous ambient/dub/electronica in general. But then, I have terrible taste in music.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 11:49 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
TharpaChodron said:
"Venerable Yeye Omileye She is a model of love and compassion who works tirelessly to alleviate the suffering of others and restore balance and harmony with our Mother Earth. She is a living Oracle and Emanation of Mamaki,  first Tibetan Water Goddess and Water Female Buddha in modern history."

She really is promoting herself.  At first I thought maybe it's a good thing because she could introduce Vajrayana Buddhism to the African Americans, but it looks to me like this is such a misrepresentation, it will do more harm than good.

Malcolm wrote:
She really has a misunderstanding.

TharpaChodron said:
And that Beyonce as Oshun, ugh.  Beyonce's message to girls as power= violence, vanity, destruction, I think it's grotesque.

Malcolm wrote:
Interesting take.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 9:34 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It has to do with mustard gas in WWI and Zyklon B in WWII, etc.

Grigoris said:
Still doesn't make sense though.  Killing people is killing them...

Malcolm wrote:
War has it's own insane logic, indeed, and you're right, it does not make sense.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 7:42 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Ogyen said:
This was made a month and a half ago...
It has subititles in English.



I speak French fluently the subtitles don't do his speech justice.

Malcolm wrote:
BTW, this person is part of the Far-Right in France:

https://www.nouvelobs.com/rue89/rue89-sur-les-reseaux/20161215.RUE6000/dans-sa-nouvelle-vie-pierre-le-corf-defend-le-regime-syrien-sur-facebook.html

He is closely associated with Benjamin Blanchard and Far-right Christians in France:

http://civilsociety-centre.org/paper/france-and-eastern-christians-beneath-controversial-mobilisation

It is basically right wing agitprop. That being said, there is bloodshed on all sides.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 7:30 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
...permit the use of chemical or biological agents on people.

Grigoris said:
I always find this sort of reasoning strange.  It's okay to shoot people, bomb them (or generally just blow them up using various devices) but it's just not on to gas them, or use diseases to kill them.

Just not sporting, really!


Malcolm wrote:
It has to do with mustard gas in WWI and Zyklon B in WWII, etc. Just for the record, I am against bombing sentient beings, shooting them or otherwise causing their death or injury in war or for any other reason. But I don't run the world.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 7:30 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Allied fecklessness aside, the international community cannot standby and permit the use of chemical or biological agents on people.

Grigoris said:
There was an official investigation into the presence and use of chemical weapons happening, nice of the allies to destroy the evidence.  Fits their agenda just fine...

Malcolm wrote:
I think it is demonstrable that Assad was gassing his own people. Just how much evidence does on need?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 7:00 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Allied fecklessness aside, the international community cannot standby and permit the use of chemical or biological agents on people.

PeterC said:
Completely agree - their banning has been one of the few enduring successes of jus in bello.  Though I’m certain that that was not why Trump chose to attack at this point.

Malcolm wrote:
He didn't choose anything, the putz -- this was pure Mattis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 6:18 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:


Sherab said:
Why?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhas have no intentions.

Sherab said:
So how does that makes it impossible for a Buddha to manifest specifically through a medium since having no intentions does not preclude the Buddha from manifesting as as anything anyway.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure it does, a buddha cannot manifest as a mara, for example. All the activities of a buddha are determined by a buddha”s prior path aspirations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 6:11 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
Assad and the Kurdish forces eliminated ISIS, not the West. Actually, except for throwing some money and guns at the conservative Kurdish forces of northern Iraq the West has done nothing for the people fighting ISIS in Syria.  As a matter of fact they have given free licence to NATO backed Turkish forces (and Islamist militias) to attack and destroy the very forces responsible for driving ISIS out of north Syria (theYPG and PKK).

As for France:  you do know they will be replacing the U$ in Manjib, right?  So the "no interest in invading" trope is pretty ragged.

Malcolm wrote:
Iraqi Forces were led by US and other NATO advisors the whole time and still are. We don’t want to have a standing army in the Mideast anymore, and have not had one their since 2014. As for pipeline conspiracy theories and so, well. And, we don’t want a hot war with Russia.

PeterC said:
The underlying issue - well, one of the many underlying issue - is that for decades, the loosely-defined 'coalition' hasn't had a clear, consistently-pursued strategy that lasted more than a few months. This goes back at least as far as GHB's bait-and-switch in 1991 with the Iraqis, but frankly that was just the continuation of a pattern of behavior dating back to before WWII. US/UK/EU governments have been consistently unable to decide what they want, partly because they are politicians and their voters have never bothered to understand the situation enough to decide what *they* want. This is never going to change. We at least know what 45 wants, which is a new shiny little distraction from the dumpster fire which is his domestic administration. But he's not really that much worse than his predecessors. One doesn't need conspiracy theories when there is ample evidence of collective idiocy.

Malcolm wrote:
Allied fecklessness aside, the international community cannot standby and permit the use of chemical or biological agents on people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 6:08 PM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Ogyen said:
This was made a month and a half ago...
It has subititles in English.



I speak French fluently the subtitles don't do his speech justice.

Malcolm wrote:
I suggest you look up Arwa Damon’s reporting.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 10:34 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Of course not. The US, Britain, and France have no interest in invading Syria, beyond the troops we have there to try and eliminate the remnants of ISIS.

Grigoris said:
Assad and the Kurdish forces eliminated ISIS, not the West. Actually, except for throwing some money and guns at the conservative Kurdish forces of northern Iraq the West has done nothing for the people fighting ISIS in Syria.  As a matter of fact they have given free licence to NATO backed Turkish forces (and Islamist militias) to attack and destroy the very forces responsible for driving ISIS out of north Syria (theYPG and PKK).

As for France:  you do know they will be replacing the U$ in Manjib, right?  So the "no interest in invading" trope is pretty ragged.

Malcolm wrote:
Iraqi Forces were led by US and other NATO advisors the whole time and still are. We don’t want to have a standing army in the Mideast anymore, and have not had one their since 2014. As for pipeline conspiracy theories and so, well. And, we don’t want a hot war with Russia.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 10:30 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Jeff H said:
This may be a naive question, but doesn't bombing chemical weapons plants release the chemicals?

justsit said:
Apparently  not, per this report in the Guardian dated April 14. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/14/trumps-attack-on-syria-is-not-without-risk-but-its-not-world-war-three.

"Another potential risk that failed to materialise was that an attack on chemical weapons might spread the poison, engulfing Syrian military personnel and civilians. Chemical weapons inspectors suggested such an outcome was unlikely, as a missile would blow up chemical weapons."

No additional scientific explanation was given.

Malcolm wrote:
Isimply put,  blowing up ingredients is not the same as blowing munitions


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 9:22 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:



Sherab said:
The post I was responding asserted that a Buddha CANNOT manifest through oracle.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, they cannot.

Sherab said:
Why?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhas have no intentions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 9:10 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:



Sherab said:
The post I was responding asserted that a Buddha CANNOT manifest through oracle.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, they cannot.

Tenma said:
So the Guan Yin mediums are all fake?

Malcolm wrote:
Of course.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 6:40 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:



Sherab said:
The post I was responding asserted that a Buddha CANNOT manifest through oracle.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, they cannot.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 4:02 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
He probably stated that he felt Oshun was an emanation of Mamaki, not Oshun = Mamaki, not unlike the way that the Gyalpo Kunga are considered worldly emanations of the five families.

Norwegian said:
Right, that would make sense. The other stuff, not so much.

tingdzin said:
What I said.

Malcolm wrote:
However, it is pretty clear the women in question, lacking any real knowledge of these things, thought he was saying "Oshun = Mamaki." Thus, no typo, and massive misunderstanding.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 3:13 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Grigoris said:
I was reading in a Greek article today that ISIS has taken advantage of the strikes against Assad to launch an offensive.  I guess that means ISIS is included in the allies launching strikes?

Malcolm wrote:
Of course not. The US, Britain, and France have no interest in invading Syria, beyond the troops we have there to try and eliminate the remnants of ISIS. This action, as I understand it, was strictly a response to the gassing of civilians last week.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: US and Allies Launch Strikes on Syria
Content:
Ogyen said:
Is there any evidence (not media hearsay) that Syria used chemical weapons? There was no evidence last year ...

I did see articles with videos of dead women and children - too gruesome.  However, there were no dead men there and some were posted by the white helmets (a joke... terrorists playing hero).  Makes me think the rebels dumped all the bodies in one house on top of each other and blamed it on the government... with things like this, and with what I am reading, all you can say is there are these dead bodies.  You can't say how they died or who killed them.  Certainly not enough evidence to be conclusive to attack another country!

The sequence of events is certainly suspicious... like more effective propaganda for more of the same.  Maybe Putin will retaliate, the media will love Trump for a few days and we have the beginning spark for a massive world war.  Or it's just more noise and more suffering.

Poor people.

Guru dragphur. Yes.


Malcolm wrote:
Oh, there is plenty of evidence Assad gassed his own people.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/05/01/syria-new-evidence-shows-pattern-nerve-agent-use

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Mission_to_Investigate_Alleged_Uses_of_Chemical_Weapons_in_the_Syrian_Arab_Republic

The US, Britain, France, and other signatories have treaty obligation to respond militarily to destroy weapons manufacturing facilities when when chemical weapons are used in combat or against civilians if the offending party persist in their unlawful activities. Syria is a signatory to the CWC and is bound by its rules.

Article XII of the https://www.cwc.gov/cwc.html states:
1. The Conference shall take the necessary measures, as set forth in paragraphs 2, 3 and 4, to ensure compliance with this Convention and to redress and remedy any situation which contravenes the provisions of this Convention. In considering action pursuant to this paragraph, the Conference shall take into account all information and recommendations on the issues submitted by the Executive Council.
2. In cases where a State Party has been requested by the Executive Council to take measures to redress a situation raising problems with regard to its compliance, and where the State Party fails to fulfil the request within the specified time, the Conference may, inter alia, upon the recommendation of the Executive Council, restrict or suspend the State Party's rights and privileges under this Convention until it undertakes the necessary action to conform with its obligations under this Convention.
3. In cases where serious damage to the object and purpose of this Convention may result from activities prohibited under this Convention, in particular by Article I, the Conference may recommend collective measures to States Parties in conformity with international law.
4. The Conference shall, in cases of particular gravity, bring the issue, including relevant information and conclusions, to the attention of the United Nations General Assembly and the United Nations Security Council.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 15th, 2018 at 1:30 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Norwegian said:
I wonder if there's the possibility of a misunderstanding or miscommunication having taken place here. That the Nechung Kuten never said that she is an oracle of Mamaki. Or that this was poorly communicated. Or that this woman is deliberately marketing herself as such, when she never really was said to be that.

Because this is all very strange.

Malcolm wrote:
He probably stated that he felt Oshun was an emanation of Mamaki, not Oshun = Mamaki, not unlike the way that the Gyalpo Kunga are considered worldly emanations of the five families.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 14th, 2018 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:



Kunga Lhadzom said:
She must have some connections with Nagas ?

Malcolm wrote:
Oshun is represented as a human being, and sometimes as a mermaid. Beyonce makes direct reference to her in this Lemonade video, where she plays a vengeful Oshun:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 14th, 2018 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
tingdzin said:
See what sloppy punctuation can do. If the article had said "a living oracle, and an emanation of Mamaki" (note the added comma), it would not have been subject to the interpretation that she was channeling Mamaki, which is an absurdity on many levels. As has been noted many times on this forum, the title "emanation" is tossed about pretty carelessly, and being recognized as an oracle is not that weird or unusual in Asia, and perhaps in Africa either (I don't know anything about Yoruba culture).

If her work is channeling human energies in a positive direction, and she's not just a money-grubbing charlatan, then that work deserves to be recognized, just as the spirit that animates Nechung is to be honored for major contributions to Tibet's and HH's welfare. This does not mean that either is a Buddha.


Malcolm wrote:
I don' think the punctuation is sloppy.  This page directly equates Osun with Mamaki. This is wrong on so many levels.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 14th, 2018 at 8:01 PM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
Norwegian said:
Just to echo an older discussion on the topic of oracles, JKhedrup, who spent some time at Sera Je:
JKhedrup said:
I just checked with Geshe Sonam now to confirm what I have relayed here is accurate. He said every lama he has heard teach on this topic has stated that fully enlightened Buddhas cannot manifest through oracles, and says that there is no precedent that they can in any of the canonical scriptures.

Sherab said:
There is a huge difference between manifesting THROUGH oracles and manifesting AS AN oracle.  A Buddha can manifest as or emanate anything.  Therefore, there is no reason why a Buddha cannot manifest or emanate an oracle.

As to "fully enlightened Buddhas CANNOT manifest through oracles", I think this makes no sense.  I think a Buddha can do that if he/she wants to but that would be unskillful and unnecessary.  Unskillful because it would create a precedence for any medium to claim that he/she is channeling a Buddha (I actually met a medium who claimed to be channeling Buddha Amitabha) and unnecessary because a Buddha can manifest as anything, so he/she can manifest as an oracle to deliver a message instead of going through an oracle to deliver a message.

Malcolm wrote:
Why would a buddha want to use a medium? That makes no sense at all. There is no need for it, as you yourself even admit. There is no evidence of such a thing occurring in any sūtra or tantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 14th, 2018 at 8:12 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
This is interesting:
https://www.vajrayanaworld.com/long-bits/nechung-oracle-recognizes-yeye-omileye

Malcolm wrote:
It is impossible for a human being to be a sku rten for a buddha. Only worldly deities manifest through oracles.


dzogchungpa said:
Duly noted.


Malcolm wrote:
If you doubt me, take it up with HHDL who himself has made this observation many times in the course of speaking of a certain protector. Also, the Nechumg Oracle himself is not a Tulku, not is Nechumg a transcendent deity.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 14th, 2018 at 7:19 AM
Title: Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
This is interesting:
https://www.vajrayanaworld.com/long-bits/nechung-oracle-recognizes-yeye-omileye

Malcolm wrote:
It is impossible for a human being to be a sku rten for a buddha. Only worldly deities manifest through oracles.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 14th, 2018 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: Asbestos snowflakes on the tongue
Content:



Queequeg said:
Its not clear how much exposure leads to cancer.


Malcolm wrote:
Parts per million.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, April 14th, 2018 at 12:37 AM
Title: Re: Academic learning is not directly proportional to realization
Content:



dzogchungpa said:
Nah, I just trot it out to annoy you.

Malcolm wrote:
I does not annoy me. If you want to misrepresent what other people say, this is on you. It however still needs correction.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 13th, 2018 at 7:53 PM
Title: Re: Academic learning is not directly proportional to realization
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
As ChNN says: In fact, the scholar's learning creates many limitations to self-discovery.

Malcolm wrote:
There is in fact a context for this, and the context is that as the Dzogchen tantras say, a shepard who has confirmed their rigpa in direct perception will be liberated far swifter than learned pandita who has not. However, a learned pandita will certainly become liberated far swifter than a shepard if they too have confirmed their rigpa in a direction perception.

It is useful to refer to what Sapan has to say here:

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4875&p=50535&hilit=kusali#p50535

Thus, one must be mindful of the context of these statements, since you have twice now trotted out this citation to imply that ChNN thinks scholarship us useless -- he does not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 13th, 2018 at 10:13 AM
Title: Re: Ancestor worship from a Mahayana POV
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
All sentient beings have been our mothers and fathers, excluding none.

Varis said:
And wives, husbands, friends, etc., right?
So presumably closer karmic affinity is what results in us getting married to certain people, being friends with others, etc? Puts a whole different spin on the concept of "soul mates", eh.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 13th, 2018 at 10:12 AM
Title: Re: Ancestor worship from a Mahayana POV
Content:
Queequeg said:
IIRC, since earliest times, merit earned in Dharma practice benefits not only ourselves, but our families,

Malcolm wrote:
All sentient beings have been our mothers and fathers, excluding none.

Queequeg said:
So it should follow that our practice has far reaching merit for all beings, and that's my understanding of the Mahayana view... I'm sure you are more familiar with this than I am, but the "seven generations" thing seems to be a Vedic or Brahmanical legacy, a convention from the Buddha's time that was incorporated into Buddhism, but was not commensurate to the Buddha's complete message. It would take time for the full scope and breadth of the Buddha's teachings to emerge. Perhaps these were one of the minor conventions current at his time which were not worth challenging.

Malcolm wrote:
It is brahmanical.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 13th, 2018 at 4:47 AM
Title: Re: Anyone know about the Namchak lineage, Namchak Khen Rinpoche or Lama Tsomo?
Content:
monktastic said:
Thank you. In your opinion authentic then?

Malcolm wrote:
TSN is definitely the real deal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 13th, 2018 at 4:28 AM
Title: Re: Anyone know about the Namchak lineage, Namchak Khen Rinpoche or Lama Tsomo?
Content:
monktastic said:
I have some family members who want to attend this: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/vipassana-tibetan-style-tickets-43361727093?aff=websiteinquiry

It's taught by teachers from here: https://namchak.org/about/teachers

Wanted to see if anyone has any familiarity with this lineage or teachers.


Malcolm wrote:
Lama Tsomo is Linda Pritzker of Priztker Foundation fame. She is a student of Tulku Sangngak's and is the sponsor of this:

http://www.ewambuddhagarden.org


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 13th, 2018 at 2:06 AM
Title: Re: Ancestor worship from a Mahayana POV
Content:
Queequeg said:
IIRC, since earliest times, merit earned in Dharma practice benefits not only ourselves, but our families,

Malcolm wrote:
All sentient beings have been our mothers and fathers, excluding none.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 13th, 2018 at 2:05 AM
Title: Re: Boundless Vision Tulku Tsolo
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Basically that is correct. You need the lung for the root text at least.

Spelare said:
As for the Five Nails, I see these two translated commentaries from the other discussion:

1. "Five Nails: Commentary on the Northern Treasures Accumulation Praxis By Tulku Tsurlo": https://www.namsebangdzo.com/Five_Nails_p/22022.htm
2. "Path of Secret Mantra: Teachings of the Northern Treasures Five Nails Pema Tinley's Guide to Vajrayana Practice": https://www.namsebangdzo.com/Path_of_Se... 380188.htm

Do you recommend either of these?  If so, what are the merits of one compared to the other?  I would probably order one but not both at this point.  Is the text of Tulku Thondup's translation of the Five Nails commentary by Tulku Tsurlo already included in the Boundless Vision book mentioned above, so there would be no point in ordering both that and #1 above?

I'd also welcome the input of anyone here who has tried to use either of the commentaries to support their own practice.

Malcolm wrote:
The five nails is a generic practice for the NT, the guru yoga is adapted to which ever cycle you are doing it for. As to which you order, that really depends on whether you like Dowman's megapixels or not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 12th, 2018 at 7:47 PM
Title: Re: Non-human capacity for wisdom
Content:
Ogyen said:
I don't feel drawn to having pets.

Malcolm wrote:
I basically have no interest in picking animal shit, hence no pets.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 12th, 2018 at 7:46 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life Transmission: 09/15/17
Content:
_R_ said:
Just curious:

Did he give pointing out instructions there?

Malcolm wrote:
Just the lung.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 12th, 2018 at 12:28 AM
Title: Re: Non-Duality in Dzogchen vs Advaita Vedanta
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Our friend ADB has not clarified whether this consciousness is personal, as in Yogacāra, or transpersonal as in Advaita. Even so, the view of Yogācāra is not the view of Dzogchen, which view Dzogchen far surpasses, just as the sun outshines a candle.

Andrew David Boyle said:
It is the view of someone who has directly perceived their Buddha Nature. There is no higher realisation.

Malcolm wrote:
you still have not clarified whether this is Self Mooji keeps talking about is personal or transpersonal.

In any case, having looked at what he says, as far as I can tell is it just standard Self view of Advaita, so not Dzogchen.

Buddhanature misunderstood is just the same as the tīrthika view of self.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 9:51 PM
Title: Re: Non-Duality in Dzogchen vs Advaita Vedanta
Content:


Andrew David Boyle said:
Outwardly Mooji's view is that all phenomena arise from consciousness and are of the same nature of consciousness.

Malcolm wrote:
That is not Dzogchen view at all. Not even slightly.

Coëmgenu said:
If I may inquire, although that isn't the Dzogchen view according to you, it does look like the general Yogācāra view.

Perhaps a formal thread, or at the very least a clarification in-thread, on what separates them would be in order?

Malcolm wrote:
Our friend ADB has not clarified whether this consciousness is personal, as in Yogacāra, or transpersonal as in Advaita. Even so, the view of Yogācāra is not the view of Dzogchen, which view Dzogchen far surpasses, just as the sun outshines a candle.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 9:32 PM
Title: Re: Non-Duality in Dzogchen vs Advaita Vedanta
Content:


Andrew David Boyle said:
Outwardly Mooji's view is that all phenomena arise from consciousness and are of the same nature of consciousness.

Malcolm wrote:
That is not Dzogchen view at all. Not even slightly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 8:50 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Snowbear said:
What is wisdom, and how is it acquired?



Malcolm wrote:
Prajñā, wisdom, is the result acquired from hearing the Dharma, reflecting upon it, and cultivating what was heard and reflected upon.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 6:39 AM
Title: Re: Boundless Vision Tulku Tsolo
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
According to the copyright page, "Tulku Thondrup's introduction to this text and his original translation of the text were included in the Buddhayana Foundation Series Volume IX." I don't know if that was actually officially published in some way.

Anyway, 'pixel' etc. sounds silly to my ear, but Tulku Thondup seems to appreciate what he has called Dowman's "brilliant gift of letters" so why not have a look at the book before discouraging others from reading it? Maybe Dowman did a good job with it.

Malcolm wrote:
At minimum, people should have the lung for the root text, kun bzang dgongs pa zang thal gyi nyams khrid thar gling chos sku'i zhing khams su bgrod pa'i nye lam chen mo, composed by17th century master Zurchen Chöying Rangdrol.

The lung for the ngondro drawn from this was given by Tulku Dakpa when he gave the lung for Buddhahood.

People should not read the text without transmission. I know this is unpopular these days, but well,

Spelare said:
So, if I've received the ngondro lung for this, does that mean I can read the ngondro section but no further?  Is it likely that Tulku Dakpa or another qualified lama will be offering the requisite transmission in the foreseeable future?

Malcolm wrote:
Basically that is correct. You need the lung for the root text at least.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 5:53 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Nichiren studied under many Dharma teachers. Thus, your example is invalid.

Astus said:
So by the requirement for a teacher you accept any Buddhist teacher, even if the encounter is minimal and later one does not even (fully) agree with that person?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because the conceptual view one learns is provisional unless or until one realizes suchness for oneself. Of course, for most people, their success in realization is indicated by the amount of hearing, reflection, and cultivation they do. Thus, people with little hearing have a much longer time on the path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 5:51 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The main  problem with Yogācāra is that they are unable to account for how a conditioned consciousness transforms into unconditioned jñāna, hence Yogācāra is held by Madhyamaka to be a realist school.

Queequeg said:
Interesting. That makes sense, except that last part.

Can you expand on the nature of that problem?

And what is meant by "realist" here?


Malcolm wrote:
It is an issue of transformation, in this case, their position has an inner contradiction. They are trying to account about mind can produce both samsara and nirvana. So the idea is that when the traces of affliction are emptied out of the ālaya, this causes the ālaya to effectively cease to exist, and the remaining mental skandhas transform into the four wisdoms which are now unconditioned. This is explained pretty well in teh Mahāyāna Samgraha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 5:01 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:



Snowbear said:
What, exactly, are we talking about with the flame?

Malcolm wrote:
Realization.

Snowbear said:
How is it passed?

Malcolm wrote:
It is like a seal and wax. The guru teaches, the disciple hears. Though the guru's realization is not transferred to the disciple, the impression upon the disciple leads to that disciples realization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 4:31 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:


Snowbear said:
It all sounds a bit too immaterial. What is "candle to candle" meant to capture?

Malcolm wrote:
One flame lighting the next flame.

Snowbear said:
What, exactly, are we talking about with the flame?

Malcolm wrote:
Realization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 4:28 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Queequeg said:
What does this statement even mean?  Couldn't one say (wn the yogacara approach, it seems to me, and I am open to correction, the two truths are not reconciled. There is a leap between the two lower levels of understanding and the perfected understanding which sees emptiness, ie. only the ultimate truth of the two truths; all dharmas, whether false or dependently originated, are not the ultimate truth.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is not correct. The absence of the imputed nature in the dependent nature is the perfected nature.

The two truths are reconciled in Yogacara through the dependent nature.

In other words, the dependent nature is the hinge for the relative and the ultimate, samsara and nirvana, etc.

The main difference between standard Madhyamaka, where one perceives that a given entity has two natures, and the Yogācāra three natures, is that first, all given entities are reduced to mind-only, that recognition of mind-only is the transition point to recognizing that they exist only as seeds in the ālayavijñāna (the dependent nature); through recognizing that they do not existas  anything other seeds, one is no longer confused about the imagined nature (relative truth), recognizing that the dependent is empty of the imagined itself is ultimate truth. The main  problem with Yogācāra is that they are unable to account for how a conditioned consciousness transforms into unconditioned jñāna, hence Yogācāra is held by Madhyamaka to be a realist school.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 4:15 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Astus said:
Nichiren did not have a teacher who told him all he had then imparted on his disciples.

Malcolm wrote:
Nichiren studied under many Dharma teachers. Thus, your example is invalid.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 3:36 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Queequeg said:
My point, and I'm not sure where you stand based on this statement, is that the realization of emptiness is not possible without the Buddha pointing it out to you first.

Malcolm wrote:
Revise "Buddha" to "virtuous mentor," and we are in perfect agreement, though Astus will vehemently disagree.

Astus said:
The disagreement is not whether one needs to learn, but how learning can happen. For instance, Nichiren did not have a teacher who told him all he had then imparted on his disciples.

Malcolm wrote:
No teacher, no blessings; no blessings, no realization (cue: debate about blessings)


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Queequeg said:
My point, and I'm not sure where you stand based on this statement, is that the realization of emptiness is not possible without the Buddha pointing it out to you first.

Malcolm wrote:
Revise "Buddha" to "virtuous mentor," and we are in perfect agreement, though Astus will vehemently disagree.

Queequeg said:
Agree.

And further, this ultimate disagreement with Astus was in mind as the end the whole time.



Malcolm wrote:
Come on, Astus, bring it in


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:


Snowbear said:
It all sounds a bit too immaterial. What is "candle to candle" meant to capture?

Malcolm wrote:
One flame lighting the next flame.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 12:45 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:



Queequeg said:
Would you disagree with that?

Malcolm wrote:
No (speaking for Cone with confidence here because we are Vajrayāna practitioners) since the essence of Vajrayāna is the direct introduction of suchness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 11th, 2018 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Queequeg said:
My point, and I'm not sure where you stand based on this statement, is that the realization of emptiness is not possible without the Buddha pointing it out to you first.

Malcolm wrote:
Revise "Buddha" to "virtuous mentor," and we are in perfect agreement, though Astus will vehemently disagree.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 10th, 2018 at 9:22 PM
Title: Re: Vajrayana is not Tibetan Buddhism
Content:
florin said:
So mantrayana and vajrayana are different then ?

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Nine_yanas

Varis said:
I should correct myself.
Tibetans use the words Vajrayana and Mantrayana as synonyms but AFAIK the former term doesn't appear in Kriya and Yoga Tantra because it's a later development, hence why East Asian Buddhists don't use it.

Malcolm wrote:
This is not correct.

The term "Vajrayāna" is found in yogatantra, in the Sarvatathāgatatattvasaṃgraha-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra as well as the Vajra-śikhara-mahā-guhya-yoga-tantra It is also found in kriya tantra, in the Árya-avalokiteśvara-padmajāla-mūlatantrarāja-nāma and the Ārya-vajrakrodharājakalpa-laghutantra-nāma

In the Sarvatathāgatatattvasaṃgraha we find the term "Unsurpassed Vajrayāna."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 10th, 2018 at 8:50 PM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:




Queequeg said:
They go on contemplating endlessly trying to find "nothing", ie. analysis without remainder. Pursuing an impossible end is, in my view, and endless austerity.

Malcolm wrote:
The point of the analysis is not to find nothing, the point is to find something. When one's analysis fails to find something, one discovers the absence of inherent (a.k.a ultimate) existence, otherwise known as the absence of existence with respect to any of the four extremes. This analysis is not endless, since one only needs to discover the emptiness of one thing to realize the emptiness of all things. To echo Āryadeva, those who propose any sort of existence must prove the existence of each and everything they propose as existent, whereas those who make arguments via emptiness need only to prove the emptiness of one thing in order to prove the emptiness of all things.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 8th, 2018 at 6:33 PM
Title: Re: Is Bon Buddhadharma?
Content:
yan kong said:
But isn't that kind of an important point, as to whether they're taking refuge in a Buddha or not? Not really in regards to whether they define themselves as Buddhists or not but rather as to whether their object of refuge is enlightened or not.

Fortyeightvows said:
Well like Malcolm said:

Malcolm wrote:
Their object of refuge is Tonpa Shenrab, who was, in the opinion of most western scholars, mythologized into a Buddha (sangs gyas).

Varis said:
From what I understand there is little evidence currently that the Buddha was a historical person, let alone that he taught anything attributed to him.

https://www.academia.edu/36121418/The_Idea_of_the_Historical_Buddha_Published_version_JIABS_2017

Those who would claim Bon is not Buddhadharma because they take Tonpa Shenrab as refuge shouldn't throw stones when they live in a glass house.

Malcolm wrote:
That article is really quite silly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, April 6th, 2018 at 8:23 PM
Title: Re: student-master relationship in Vajrayana
Content:
pemachophel said:
dear climb-up,

if you're looking for a one-size-fits all methodology in vajrayana, i think you're going to be disappointed. as the well-known tibetan saying goes, "every valley has its lama; every lama has his dharma (meaning how he or she does things)."

personally,  i recommend your finding (or sticking with) a teacher whose teachings work for you and not worry about the rest. if ChNNR's method of DI or initiation works for some, that's wonderful for them. others may need (or simply favor) in-the-flesh teachings in a small group setting. the issue is the result, not necessarily the delivery system.

just my two cents. sorry if i'm way off base.

climb-up said:
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I appreciate it.

I am not looking for a one-size fits all approach, nor am I looking for a teacher who works for me, I have found that in ChNN's teachings and practice. I'm good on that front, and have full faith in teachings.

My question was specifically in regards to Malcolm, a very well known and vocal supporter of ChNN and his teachings saying that everything in the article was correct. I can understand both approaches being true in the "every lama has his own dharma" sense, but not in the sense of a student of ChNN saying that everything in there article is true.
I am curious if Malcolm has some understanding that some how reconciles these two perspectives and, if he would share it. I am (very genuinely) not trying to start any sh!t ...


dzogchungpa said:
Good, because we can't have that, can we?


climb-up said:
...just trying to preemptively stem off any potential defensiveness, in the hopes of getting an answer (sometimes, I can't imagine why, my questions are thought of us less than sincere).

Malcolm wrote:
With respect to the boss, he answers questions put to him in email or in person.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 5th, 2018 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: student-master relationship in Vajrayana
Content:



treehuggingoctopus said:
Well, the thing is, as you practice new questions tend to emerge. And then you go back to your guru and ask them again, don't you?

Malcolm wrote:
Not if he or she has basically stopped answering questions. At a certain point in one's practice, one needs to become self-reliant. After all, Dharma is not rocket science.

treehuggingoctopus said:
That is what one would think. I would, in any case. But then there are things like this:

http://levekunst.com/club-nondualite/

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, everything Erik says here is true. But this is not in contradiction with my point at all.

If one is still in a state of doubt, one might ask questions, but even if one ask questions and receives answers, those answers cannot really be confirmed by anyone else but oneself in one's own practice. Anyway, people put too much emphasis on "nonduality" without really knowing what the term means in the various approaches of Buddhadharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 5th, 2018 at 11:07 PM
Title: Re: Why samsara exists
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I don't know why there is all this discussion. The answer to why samsara exists is that sentient beings are subject to grasping a self that does not exist as real.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 5th, 2018 at 11:04 PM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Then there is the issue of "helping" the text. It is the habit of some translators to embed their understanding in their translations by fleshing them out, sometimes by as much as 40 percent, with extraneous material either derived from commentaries or from information provided in the course of hearing a text being taught.

Grigoris said:
I disagree with this method.  This sort of activity is best left for footnotes where it is made clear that it is an addition of the translator.

Malcolm wrote:
I am not advocating for this, just mentioned that this is the practice of some translators. I personally think it is the wrong way to go.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 5th, 2018 at 10:11 PM
Title: Re: student-master relationship in Vajrayana
Content:



treehuggingoctopus said:
And if they stop?

Malcolm wrote:
Then you don't need to ask anymore questions— just find your answers in your practice. I.e., at that time one needs to rely on the inner guru.

treehuggingoctopus said:
Well, the thing is, as you practice new questions tend to emerge. And then you go back to your guru and ask them again, don't you?

Malcolm wrote:
Not if he or she has basically stopped answering questions. At a certain point in one's practice, one needs to become self-reliant. After all, Dharma is not rocket science.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, April 5th, 2018 at 2:44 AM
Title: Re: student-master relationship in Vajrayana
Content:


47635 said:
How often is it necessary to see one’s teacher in Vajrayana?

Malcolm wrote:
Until he or she stops answering your questions.

treehuggingoctopus said:
And if they stop?

Malcolm wrote:
Then you don't need to ask anymore questions— just find your answers in your practice. I.e., at that time one needs to rely on the inner guru.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 4th, 2018 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: student-master relationship in Vajrayana
Content:


47635 said:
How often is it necessary to see one’s teacher in Vajrayana?

Malcolm wrote:
Until he or she stops answering your questions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, April 4th, 2018 at 9:47 PM
Title: Re: Great Transference question
Content:
Josef said:
one would also be forbidden from reading Malcolm's translations if this were the case.

chimechodra said:
Does "Buddhahood in this Life" contain thogal sections that one should not read unless they have received those teachings? This would be good to know beforehand. I haven't bought the book yet so I have no idea if there's a warning somewhere, but it is on my to-read list.

Malcolm wrote:
I wrote:
In closing, I would like to stress that this translation has been prepared
primarily for the serious practitioner who has the transmission for the
teachings contained here. The reader should have received the necessary
empowerments and reading transmissions. The Great Perfection
tradition, like the Buddhist tradition in general, is an orally transmitted
tradition, and one cannot expect to make any progress in its teachings
without having received transmissions in a proper way. Without proper
guidance by a qualified master who has understood and realized the
meaning of the Great Perfection, one is sure either to not understand
or, perhaps worse, to misunderstand the subject matter. However, with
proper guidance by a qualified master, it is certain that one will be able
to gain confidence in one’s view and practice, and to quickly traverse
the path to perfect buddhahood.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 3rd, 2018 at 10:17 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:



heart said:
Yes, it is. But not with ChNNR's melody. Often a part of liberation of wearing mantras. Also there are several version.

/magnus

Miroku said:
Yes, if I remember correctly the melody is really something special. It came to Rinpoche as a part of his Jnanadakiny dreams or it is from Jnanadakini. Either way it is special.

heart said:
No, I think he got it from Ekajati in a dream.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
It came from a dream of a ganapuja he had when he was around 10 years old. Since his uncle was in the dream, he asked his uncle if he knew this melody, but Heka Lingpa said he did not know that melody, and told ChNN to go to his other uncle, since SOV was part of Adzom Drukpa's practice; however, there, his other uncle taught him a melody that was used in Adzom Gar, but it was nothing like what ChNN heard in his dream at that Ganapuja. Later, when he started having dreams of the dance, the melody was slowed down considerably. I have heard recordings from the '70s where SOV was accompanied by harmonium and it was sung very rapidly compared even with the quick form of singing today.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, April 3rd, 2018 at 1:55 AM
Title: Re: "Wild Wild Country" - Osho documentary on Netflix
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
It's been a while since I looked at it but if I recall correctly, some of that Rajneesh stuff is very well spoken.

Malcolm wrote:
Your memory is failing you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 1st, 2018 at 9:56 PM
Title: Re: Ayya Yeshe
Content:
gelukman said:
Hello

http://buddhistinsights.com/ayya-yeshe/

There is a nun called Ayya Yeshe. Who is very active and such a public person.
So the question arise. What is she doing?
Quickly seen I did not find any mention her qualification to ordain women?

If some one have more insight I would be happy to hear.

.

Grigoris said:
Any vow holding monastic is "qualified" to ordain given there are another two (for a total of three) vow holding monastics present.

Why do you want to know?  You want to be ordained by her?


Malcolm wrote:
Well, not exactly. Bhikṣunis cannot ordain men. They can at most give them refuge (barring bodhisattva vows and samaya, which do not have gender restrictions).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, April 1st, 2018 at 8:21 PM
Title: Re: Why is "unborn, unchanging, deathless" NOT eternal?
Content:
krodha said:
"Non-empty" is a play on words in that context. Many see the use of "non-empty" and think it contradicts śūnyatā, but it does not... it is merely a play on words that is intended to come off a bit controversial and incendiary. "Non-empty" is an embellished and shortened way of saying "not lacking qualities," but it appears attractive for those who might fear emptiness, it is intended as an upāya in that sense. The main issue is that it requires unpacking and given the fact that many who shy away from emptiness tend to be those who take comfort in the idea of substantial essences, the use of "non-empty" is oft misconstrued as affirming an inherent essence that contradicts emptiness.

ItsRaining said:
You seem to be just assuming that it is intended to be controversial and incendiary when it is not. There was no massive controversy over these work in the past....

Malcolm wrote:
Sure there was, which is why the Lanka is an important corrective to the ten tathāgatagarbha sūtras, and explains that tathāgatagarbha was taught for those who were in fear of emptiness.

ItsRaining said:
It just affirms that affirms that the mind noes not lack qualities which is an important point, clarifying that it is not an nihilists emptiness.

Malcolm wrote:
Anything that has qualities is relative and compounded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 31st, 2018 at 12:21 AM
Title: Re: Boundless Vision Tulku Tsolo
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
According to the copyright page, "Tulku Thondrup's introduction to this text and his original translation of the text were included in the Buddhayana Foundation Series Volume IX." I don't know if that was actually officially published in some way.

Anyway, 'pixel' etc. sounds silly to my ear, but Tulku Thondup seems to appreciate what he has called Dowman's "brilliant gift of letters" so why not have a look at the book before discouraging others from reading it? Maybe Dowman did a good job with it.

Malcolm wrote:
At minimum, people should have the lung for the root text, kun bzang dgongs pa zang thal gyi nyams khrid thar gling chos sku'i zhing khams su bgrod pa'i nye lam chen mo, composed by17th century master Zurchen Chöying Rangdrol.

The lung for the ngondro drawn from this was given by Tulku Dakpa when he gave the lung for Buddhahood.

People should not read the text without transmission. I know this is unpopular these days, but well,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2018 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:
Spelare said:
For myself, I see no problem with integrating haṭha-yoga practices, physical or energetic, into the Dzogchen view.  This is precisely what Yantra Yoga instructors apparently do, deferring to Tibetan texts and teachers whenever possible but clearly bringing to bear their training in modern postural yoga.


Malcolm wrote:
As to your first point, yes, there is no conflict here.

As to your second point, I don't think Fabio and Laura would agree.

Spelare said:
Ok.  So, would you say that they had to unlearn certain aspects of modern postural yoga and relearn them according to the Tibetan sources?  Or, do you just mean that everything they teach was already there in the Tibetan sources already, and there was no need to adapt them for modern use?

Malcolm wrote:
Laura, as far as I know, never studied any of the lineages from Krishnamācārya. Fabio originally studied with Śivānanda, but dropped all of that when he started training with ChNN. Everything in Yantra Yoga is in the root text, including the variations, as ChNN learned it from his uncle.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2018 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: melong pendant
Content:
Grigoris said:
As for blessings:  I gave my melong to be used during an empowerment as the landing pad for Dakini.

Mantrik said:
Hopefully they were better at landing than the owls in Harry Potter.

Convex side down helps.

Malcolm wrote:
One is to wear the six syllables against the skin, mirror side out.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2018 at 11:39 PM
Title: Re: melong pendant
Content:
Grigoris said:
As for blessings:  I gave my melong to be used during an empowerment as the landing pad for Dakini.

Mantrik said:
Hopefully they were better at landing than the owls in Harry Potter.

Convex side down helps.

Ogyen said:
These Merigar Melongs are flat discs.  I like the convex shape better..

Malcolm wrote:
The Merigar melongs are descendants of the original melong given to ChNN by Changchub Dorje. They are made of a special alloy, to ChNN's precise specifications. Each batch of new melongs has added to it an older melong kept back so that succeeding generations of melongs all have some of the original in their composition. Thus, it is better, IMO, to purchase the merigar melongs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2018 at 11:35 PM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:
Spelare said:
For myself, I see no problem with integrating haṭha-yoga practices, physical or energetic, into the Dzogchen view.  This is precisely what Yantra Yoga instructors apparently do, deferring to Tibetan texts and teachers whenever possible but clearly bringing to bear their training in modern postural yoga.


Malcolm wrote:
As to your first point, yes, there is no conflict here.

As to your second point, I don't think Fabio and Laura would agree.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2018 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Losal Samten said:
How do aspirations work once buddahood is attained? Aspirations are a conditioned phenomena and are to be abandoned at the tenth bhumi (IIRC), and since the dharmakaya is unconditioned, surely it can't be conditioned via conditioned practitioners conditionally triggering the abandoned and purified conditional traces of aspirations?

Are aspirations mentioned in Dzogchen literature, or does it rely on the natural compassion doing its business? Wish-fulfilling jewel a and wish-fulfilling jewel b have no differences in activities and potentialities, surely?

Malcolm wrote:
Like karma, there is no inherent nature that forces the result of aspirations, once made, to cease. AA VIII 2,8 (Conze) states concerning the "cognition concerning resolve", "As the cause comes to maturity, he manifests himself at that place, wherever and whenever his help is needed."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2018 at 11:02 PM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Ogyen said:
So for example is Tara a specific being with a separate mindstream than Shakyamuni, or Chenrezig/Avalokiteshvara, etc.  Or are they all the same buddha nature that just projects through a different lens of manifestation?

I ask because we are instructed to use specific practices to help us for specific conditions...


Malcolm wrote:
Buddhanature is not some unity that all beings share. That would be a self-view. Buddhanature is the individual potential of each sentient being to awaken.

Tārā is a being separate from Śākyamuni, Avalokiteśvara and so on, who all make their own aspirations, have their own namthars, etc.

Each deity manifests from separate aspirations to provide methods for different sentient beings. Tārā the bodhisattva and Tārā, the deity in the sadhana that one manifests are not the same, but by doing the latter one invokes the aspirations of the former. However, if one realizes Tārā, there is basically no difference at that point between oneself and Tārā because the pristine consciousness of all the buddhas is identical in terms of object of realization and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2018 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: Boundless Vision Tulku Tsolo
Content:
the.eleven said:
Does anyone here have experience with this text?

https://www.amazon.com/Boundless-Vision-Manual-Dzogchen-Changter/dp/1985102846/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522255581&sr=8-1&keywords=boundless+visi%C3%B3n

Josef said:
I havent read it but I find it quite odd that Dowman "edited" a Tulku Thondup translation.
This could be a very valuable translation if there is an extant version that Dowman didnt have anything to do with.
Perhaps there is another edition available from Thondup himself.

Malcolm wrote:
From what I understand, there was a manuscript version in circulation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2018 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Boundless Vision Tulku Tsolo
Content:



Josef said:
I havent read it but I find it quite odd that Dowman "edited" a Tulku Thondup translation.
This could be a very valuable translation if there is an extant version that Dowman didnt have anything to do with.
Perhaps there is another edition available from Thondup himself.

Norwegian said:
Basically it looks like Dowman had his way with the text and added in "pixel", "megapixel" and other Dowman-lingo...

treehuggingoctopus said:
"Sole cosmic megapixel." Mmmmmmm.....

Malcolm wrote:
This must be the Minecraft edition of Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 30th, 2018 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
According to Sarvastivada and most of Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna, formless realm beings have no material body. Dzogchen dissents from this view.

Grigoris said:
So the Arupadhatu is suddenly a Rupadhatu?

Malcolm wrote:
In Dzogchen, formless is taken to mean extremely subtle form.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 29th, 2018 at 10:16 PM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
clyde said:
I apologize for my confusion but if “a mind is instantiated in a body”, are there minds without living bodies and/or living bodies without minds?

Malcolm wrote:
According to Sarvastivada and most of Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna, formless realm beings have no material body. Dzogchen dissents from this view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 29th, 2018 at 3:24 AM
Title: Re: ‘Dharmas do not arise’
Content:



Wayfarer said:
Precisely!

There are some very good answers and sources here, which I think address the point (and thank you for them ). But that point is, to say of something that it has ‘merely conventional existence’, is not to say that it simply doesn’t exist. Actually the whole distinction between ‘conventional and ultimate’ is really a deep philosophical question. I think too often we assume that we understand something about that, because after all the sutras and commentaries are written from the perspective of understanding that distinction. But I know that I don’t fully understand it. Hence, caution.


Malcolm wrote:
Arising, when analyzed, cannot be ascertained. We do not state from the outset that phenomena do not arise. That is an analytical conclusion. Conventional truth (arising) is how things appear to us , ultimate truth (nonarising) is the conclusion of analyzing appearances.

Coëmgenu said:
So to say "conventionally, nothing arises" is somewhat incorrect, because it is illustrating some confusion about the conventional? Things don't arise, but if conventionality is not the mistaken or unmistaken experience of "apparently" arising dharmāḥ ", however "wrong" or "right" that experience of conventionality may be, then what is it?

Malcolm wrote:
Conventionally, arising from conditions is the only valid mode of arising.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 28th, 2018 at 9:49 PM
Title: Re: ‘Dharmas do not arise’
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
They don't arise ultimately, they do arise conventionally, sometimes people (not just anyone) say they don't arise conventionally either.

When nothing arises, even conventionally, what is the point of even positing a conventional?

Wayfarer said:
Precisely!

There are some very good answers and sources here, which I think address the point (and thank you for them ). But that point is, to say of something that it has ‘merely conventional existence’, is not to say that it simply doesn’t exist. Actually the whole distinction between ‘conventional and ultimate’ is really a deep philosophical question. I think too often we assume that we understand something about that, because after all the sutras and commentaries are written from the perspective of understanding that distinction. But I know that I don’t fully understand it. Hence, caution.


Malcolm wrote:
Arising, when analyzed, cannot be ascertained. We do not state from the outset that phenomena do not arise. That is an analytical conclusion. Conventional truth (arising) is how things appear to us , ultimate truth (nonarising) is the conclusion of analyzing appearances.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 28th, 2018 at 9:40 PM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Matt J said:
Why give primacy to the body? Why can’t the body be instantiated in the mind?

I mean for example the accounts given by Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche in Myriad Worlds.
But minds are formless—- how can they be instantiated in anything? Plus in Buddhist creation stories, bodies arise in minds, not the other way around.

Malcolm wrote:
If minds cannot be instantiated in bodies, how can there be rebirth?

As to you second remark, I am not sure what you mean. Citation helpful.
Well, in Dzogchen texts for example, it is pretty clear the body is a vessel for the mind, something which is appropriated based on karma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 28th, 2018 at 3:56 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Matt J said:
But minds are formless—- how can they be instantiated in anything? Plus in Buddhist creation stories, bodies arise in minds, not the other way around.

Malcolm wrote:
If minds cannot be instantiated in bodies, how can there be rebirth?

As to you second remark, I am not sure what you mean. Citation helpful.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 28th, 2018 at 1:35 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
also in the formless there are indriyas supports the mind, such as lifeforce etc.

Grigoris said:
Sure.  But you said the delineating quality is the body/form.  Or were you speaking about the animal/human realm specifically? do viruses have minds?
I would say that they have a degree of sentience and thus have some sort of mind.  A pretty basic mind, but a mind nonetheless.

Malcolm wrote:
We can also say that formless beings have form, it is just very subtle.

As to your second statement, I cannot confirm this or deny it. I simple don't know.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 28th, 2018 at 1:15 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Matt J said:
The issue with the Buddhist view is that the mind is not physical, so what keeps minds apart?

Malcolm wrote:
Minds are instantiated in bodies, that's what keeps them apart.

Grigoris said:
So what keeps them "apart" in formless realms?

What would happen in the case of a virus, where they become a part of the entity they invade?

Malcolm wrote:
also in the formless there are indriyas supports the mind, such as lifeforce etc.

do viruses have minds?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 28th, 2018 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: Mind-streams: Separate?
Content:
Matt J said:
The issue with the Buddhist view is that the mind is not physical, so what keeps minds apart?

Malcolm wrote:
Minds are instantiated in bodies, that's what keeps them apart.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 27th, 2018 at 9:27 PM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:


Sherab said:
You did not explain tome that Richardson already proved Madhyamaka does not stand up when cast in the language of Quine.  You made a statement to that effect only if I remember correctly.  I did say that I cannot comment on Richardson as I have not read it.

Malcolm wrote:
Early Madhyamaka in China. That is your assignment.

"Not 1; not 0; not 1 and 0; and neither 1 nor 0." These are the four non affirming negations. They have no implication other than what they directly negate. They do not affirm anything.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 27th, 2018 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:



heart said:
No, I hope they will make booklet one day. Rinpoche gives the tibetan text of the sadhana if you ask and some people have done translations but I hesitate to mention them in an open forum.

/magnus

javier.espinoza.t said:
ChNN is the only known holder of ChchD teachings?


lelopa said:
outside of Tibet : afaik yes!


Malcolm wrote:
No, there is also Lama Wangdor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 26th, 2018 at 7:23 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:
Matt J said:
Language is not quite as susceptible to formal logic, especially English. I think combining statement #1 and statement #2 is a category error.

Malcolm wrote:
I have tried to explain this several times, but he doesn't listen.

Sherab said:
Did you spot the flaw in his logic?  It was one that is made by most people who are not trained in logical fallacies.  But you?  I don't know what to say.

Malcolm wrote:
I have already explained to you that Richardson already proved Madhyamaka does not stand up when cast in the language of Quine. Why you ignore me when I make such observations is anyone's guess. Therefore, you should understand that your equations are flawed since they do not each the point of Madhyamaka. But if you prefer to spend your time trying to match major and minor premises, please go ahead.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 25th, 2018 at 10:24 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:
Matt J said:
Language is not quite as susceptible to formal logic, especially English. I think combining statement #1 and statement #2 is a category error.

Malcolm wrote:
I have tried to explain this several times, but he doesn't listen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 25th, 2018 at 12:05 AM
Title: Re: Beijing ‘strongly dissatisfied’ as Trump signs Taiwan Travel Act
Content:
tingdzin said:
And maybe the only one (world leader). Bravo Trump -- I guess even a nearsighetd hog roots up a truffle now and then.

Malcolm wrote:
I was under the impression that pigs rooted up truffles by smell, not by sight.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 24th, 2018 at 6:21 AM
Title: Re: Who/what is the Original Buddha? Split from En-no-gyoja
Content:
Queequeg said:
The problem with identifying any "thing" with the Original Buddha is that the Original Buddha is not a "thing". If it is, then we have to make clear that we mean this only in a conventional sense. Otherwise, we're not discussing Buddhism and rather something else.

In the sutra I reproduced ( https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=28193 ) The Original Buddha is identified as "no mind, no thought". I didn't reproduce Swanson's comments, but he suggested that this Original Buddha of No Mind and No Thought is jisso - True Aspect of Reality. The suggestion is that the beginningless and endless original Buddha that awakens, awakens by "hearing" the teaching of the True Aspect of Reality, in other words, coming to know reality as it is by observing reality.

I don't know if this is meant to be understood as some temporal event, or rather implies that the practitioner should likewise seek awakening by listening to the True Aspect of Reality.

As for identifying this myoho renge kyo with the True Aspect of Reality, that's probably partially true. It is also the wisdom (in the form of the Buddha) of the True Aspect, as well as the practice of it.

In other words, I don't think that sutra aligns particularly well with what Nichiren taught.

Malcolm wrote:
The term adibuddha in Sanskrit texts makes its first appearance in the Mañjuśrī-nāmasaṃgiti. The adibuddha is considered to be suchness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 24th, 2018 at 1:07 AM
Title: Re: Return after a long absence
Content:
Ogyen said:
Hi, I've been gone years, but I'm back because I missed you guys so much I had to come back.


Ogyen

Malcolm wrote:
Hi Daphne.

Welcome back.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 23rd, 2018 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:


pueraeternus said:
This is not merely "can't do-ism". It is a horrific notion that it is somehow compassionate to perpetuate the continued enslavement and slaughter of billions of sentient beings.

Malcolm wrote:
That is a horrific notion, and not one advanced by the statement above.


pueraeternus said:
It is like saying let's keep 1000 cows alive in hellish conditions, if not we have to kill them, but it's totally ok to end up enslaving and killing exponentially more cows in just 50 years, and ensuring that the fate of the progeny of those cows are not much better than the most ill-fated of pretas.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is not like that at all. The statement is pointing out the consequence of what would happen if 7.5 billion people overnight stopped raising livestock for food. Of course that is not going to happen, since I do not foresee, in world of 2.5 billion Christians, 1.8 billion Muslims, etc., that the demand for meat is going to decrease anytime soon. In fact, it will only increase as we move deeper into the Kaliyuga.

pueraeternus said:
It would not be so bad if there were no such thing as modern factory farming practices. But in the face of what we know what goes on in meat factories, people continue to spout Buddhist doctrines that do not factor these realities in.

Malcolm wrote:
You apparently selectively ignored my agreement that modern agribusiness in toto is terrible. For the record, I do not buy meat or dairy that is not pastured, i.e. raised humanely, and preferably locally, since I have that luxury. Nor do I buy nonorganic food as much as possible.

On the other hand, the world appetite for meat is increasing as developing countries increase the demand for meat every year.

The FAO projected:
Meat consumption in developing countries has been continuously increasing from a modest average annual per capita consumption of 10 kg in the 1960s to 26 kg in 2000 and will reach 37 kg around the year 2030 according to FAO projections. This forecast suggests that in a few decades, developing countries’ consumption of meat will move towards that of developed countries where meat consumption remains stagnant at a high level.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/ai407e/AI407E02.htm

In reality, more and more people are going to be eating meat. The trends are pretty clear:
Thanks to all of this meat eating, at any given point in the year, there are 19 billion chickens, 1.5 billion cows, 1 billion pigs and 1 billion sheep on the planet — more than three times the number of people. And these numbers are set to rise as the human population grows and more people shift toward a meat-based diet. The number of cattle, sheep, goats and buffalo — animals that require quite a bit of land for feed production and grazing — alone is increasing by 25 million annually, according to the Food and Agriculture Organization.
https://ensia.com/articles/these-maps-show-changes-in-global-meat-consumption-by-2024-heres-why-that-matters/


pueraeternus said:
It is as if just because technically they may not be incurring direct karmic penalties, they will be alright. But we are all supposed to be on the Mahayana path, and it is not enough to just not further incur negative karma - we have to actively bring benefit for others. It is truly the age of kaliyuga when supposedly learned practitioners can't see the obvious contradictions.

Malcolm wrote:
You seem to have a misunderstanding of the bodhisattva path. Shantideva raises the question of how the Buddha could have perfected generosity since there was still poverty in the world. Shantideva responds to the qualm by pointing out that even though the Bodhisattva could not actually relieve the poverty of all sentient beings, he sincerely wished they were all free of it, and thus he perfected generosity. You also seem not to make a distinction between aspirational bodhicitta and engaged bodhicitta.

One must disentangle what impacts one's liberation, and what impacts the world. There is really no way to prevent the transient suffering of sentient beings. The view that one can is really a one-lifetime view at best. That is why the Buddha clearly stated, "I cannot remove suffering with my hands." Mature Dharma practitioners know with sadness there is really nothing that can be done about the suffering of others, even though we make aspirational vows to lead all beings to nirvana, in order for that to happen, those sentient beings need to be reborn as human beings first. This is why, for example, when training on the four Brahma-viharas, Kamalashila recommends that we first develop equanimity. The lack of equanimity on the part vegetarian ideologues is basically what fuels their idealistic "compassion."

pueraeternus said:
And I am not even now saying everyone should suddenly be vegetarian - just accept the fact that reducing meat intake is good for every sentient being involved (including insects, since we will be killing less of them), the environment and planetary well-being, and then try to reduce meat in our daily life. Even this they do not accept and give all sorts of spurious reasons and denials. There is no other way to say it - it is disgusting and shameful.

Malcolm wrote:
Your feelings of disgust and shame are your own since you are imputing positions upon me that I do not hold.

Frankly, a lot of Western Buddhist hysteria over the consumption of meat comes from living in advanced economies where being a vegetarian is a first world luxury. A point completely overlooked in these debates is that most Buddhists in the world, living in developing nations as they do, eat meat and want to eat meat. Actually, so do most Hindus, they just avoid beef, eating lamb and chicken in great quantity instead. And Hindus would not dream of abandoning milk, etc., since it is sanctioned in the Vedas.

It is pretty clear there is suffering in the world. But the only way suffering can be removed in a real sense is by meeting the Dharma and practicing a path. In the meantime, I will seek to help those I can directly help, and feel sadness at my limitations in not being able to help all sentient beings, even though that is my most sincere wish.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 23rd, 2018 at 3:15 AM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:
Snowbear said:
There is an obvious parallel to modern transnational yoga's asanas in YY, which indicates to me that YY is not trulkhor in the traditional sense. When you say you were exposed to other trulkhor systems, do you mean like on YouTube?

Varis said:
Hatha Yoga comes from Buddhism, this has been well established by academics. Any similarity is likely to be found there.

climb-up said:
Do you have some references for this?
Not that I doubt you, I'd just like to read up on it and on first glance not much is coming up.

Malcolm wrote:
Also look at the work of Jame Mallison.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 23rd, 2018 at 3:07 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:
seeker242 said:
To cause harm requires intent to cause harm. This is something you fail to understand. In order to cause harm, one has to have malice.
That is nonsensical. Drunk drivers don't intend to cause harm when they run a red light, but they do cause harm anyway.

Malcolm wrote:
Not so, all drunk drivers know they are acting unlawfully.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 23rd, 2018 at 3:07 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:


seeker242 said:
The Buddha could not even prevent the enslavement of his clan.
The Buddha was not the one enslaving the clan, if he was, he would have been able to stop it by not doing it...

Malcolm wrote:
Likewise, just because one eats meat bought from a store, this does not mean one is butchering the animal. Since one is not doing it, one cannot stop it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 23rd, 2018 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:
Simon E. said:
I have never, ever, seen an omnivore attempt to convert a vegan/veggie.

treehuggingoctopus said:
Really? I see it regularly, Vajrayana Buddhist meat-eaters attempting to convert Vajrayana Buddhist veggies/vegans. Happens rarely online, regularly in (the pun partially intended) the meat-space.

Malcolm wrote:
This only happens to hapless vegetarians who stumble into Dzogchen Community when ChNN gives his usual lecture about the miserable compassion of vegetarians.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 23rd, 2018 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
No more so than tofu or socks.

seeker242 said:
Much more than tofu or socks.

Malcolm wrote:
Nope, this is a claim, not a fact.

seeker242 said:
Funny thing is that "if the world went vegan tomorrow" is unrealistic and therefore irrelevant.
Yes, and for that reason, it is also irrelevant is one buys meat in a store or not. You have acquiesced the point.
Only that which is unrealistic is irrelevant. Reducing harm is not unrealistic and therefore not irrelevant.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it is unrealistic. The Buddha could not even prevent the enslavement of his clan.

seeker242 said:
but we cannot prevent or remove  the suffering of others.
You can when you are the one that is causing it to begin with.

Malcolm wrote:
To cause harm requires intent to cause harm. This is something you fail to understand. In order to cause harm, one has to have malice.


seeker242 said:
No, there is a difference. I am not claiming that being an omnivore is some sort of moral high ground. It isn't. But you vegans claim a moral high ground, which in fact is false.
Vegans claim that it's less harmful to be vegan, which is true.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, it is true is not a fact.

seeker242 said:
There are more of us than there are of you. Better be cautious. We only eat vegetarians.
Not really a problem. We can outrun you because we don't have high blood pressure and cholesterol clogged arteries.

Malcolm wrote:
[/quote]

Another bullshit myth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 23rd, 2018 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The funny thing is, if the world went vegan tomorrow, it would be necessary to slaughter billions of livestock anyway because no economy on the planet will absorb the cost of feeding these animals until their natural deaths.

Grigoris said:
What a ridiculous justification for continuing to eat meat. Veganism is very self-centered. It is an example of attachment to views, as is this whole discussion.
I take it you are including your self-centered attachment to your views when you make this statement?

Malcolm wrote:
As I pointed out to seeker, I am not arguing for meat eating as a moral position, unlike vegetarians/vegans like you, who think they are better than omnivores.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 23rd, 2018 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Buying dead meat in a store does not constitute support for killing. It constitutes supporting one's body so one can help others.

seeker242 said:
It constitutes financial support for killing.

Malcolm wrote:
No more so than tofu or socks.

seeker242 said:
The funny thing is, if the world went vegan tomorrow, it would be necessary to slaughter billions of livestock anyway because no economy on the planet will absorb the cost of feeding these animals until their natural deaths.
Funny thing is that "if the world went vegan tomorrow" is unrealistic and therefore irrelevant.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and for that reason, it is also irrelevant is one buys meat in a store or not. You have acquiesced the point.



seeker242 said:
We live in a degenerate age. Better get used to it.
Slavery and child sex traffic is no problem. We live in a degenerate age. Better get used to it.

Malcolm wrote:
I never said that degeneration was not a problem. I said it is not preventable. Crimes are generally not preventable. That is why we have a justice system. All of these issues you complain about are in fact results of our own karma. It is because of our own karma we are born in a world where meat is eaten, women and children enslaved, where there are nuclear weapons. We can prevent suffering for ourselves, but we cannot prevent or remove  the suffering of others. The Buddha never said we could. All we can do is wish that sentient beings be free from suffering. Even though the Buddha sacrificed his body to the tigress so she would not eat her cubs, he did not really remove anyone's suffering. Instead he earned the final piece of merit to cause him to take rebirth in Tushita as the Bodhisattva Svetaketu, before manifesting here as the Buddha.

seeker242 said:
Veganism is very self-centered. It is an example of attachment to views, as is this whole discussion.
Omnivorism is very self-centered. It is an example of attachment to views, as is this whole discussion.

Malcolm wrote:
No, there is a difference. I am not claiming that being an omnivore is some sort of moral high ground. It isn't. But you vegans claim a moral high ground, which in fact is false.

seeker242 said:
The idea that omnivores are less compassionate than vegetarians is entirely fallacious.
The idea that omnivores don't cause more destruction than vegetarians is entirely fallacious.

Malcolm wrote:
[/quote]

There are more of us than there are of you. Better be cautious. We only eat vegetarians.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 22nd, 2018 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
No one is arguing that the production of meat is virtuous. We all agree it is not virtuous.

seeker242 said:
If it's not virtuous, then it should not be supported when one has the opportunity to not support it.

Malcolm wrote:
Buying dead meat in a store does not constitute support for killing. It constitutes supporting one's body so one can help others.

seeker242 said:
But then, neither is agriculture in general. The production of food, cloth, etc., is destructive on the whole. In fact, virtually all human activity is destructive to other beings in one way or another.
Sure, but that does not mean that it's inappropriate or pointless to attempt to minimize the destruction that is caused. To assert that a solution is inappropriate because it's not perfect is unreasonable because there is no perfect solution. However, various actions can minimize or maximize the destruction.

Malcolm wrote:
The funny thing is, if the world went vegan tomorrow, it would be necessary to slaughter billions of livestock anyway because no economy on the planet will absorb the cost of feeding these animals until their natural deaths.


seeker242 said:
As I have said, the economic and environmental issues are separate from Buddhist teachings in the issue and should be kept separate.


Yet they are not separate from the amount of destruction being caused.

Malcolm wrote:
We live in a degenerate age. Better get used to it.


seeker242 said:
A text I gave brought up before in this thread, the Blaze of Reasoning (Tarkajvala), a comprehensive Madhyamaka commentary, addresses various objections to meat-eating found in these sūtras, such as the claim that eating meat will make the body impure. Bhavya points out, for example, that the body is already impure by nature, thus eating meat will not make it more so.
Yet vegetarianism isn't about being self-centered. Focusing on your own liberation, your own purity or your own karma, is by definition, a self-centered focus. Vegetarianism is the opposite of self-centered.

Malcolm wrote:
[/quote]

Veganism is very self-centered. It is an example of attachment to views, as is this whole discussion.

The idea that omnivores are less compassionate than vegetarians is entirely fallacious.

The social conditions of India were such at the time that in order to attract converts to Buddhism, vegetarianism was encouraged. Today we have precisely the opposite conditions, at least in the US. Here, the vast majority of people eat meat. Insisting on vegetarianism will simply cause many people to have no interest in the Dharma. When Buddhism spread to Tibet, the majority of people did and still do eat meat, and thus, Indian Buddhists did not insist on vegetarianism understanding that Tibetans would reject them. Insisting that Buddhists be vegetarian is Devadatta's doctrine, as has been pointed out before. The Buddha understood that we have to work with circumstances. Insisting that others must follow one's own dietary conscience is in fact contrary to the Dharma. One can certainly be a compassionate person and also be an omnivore.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 22nd, 2018 at 10:54 PM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:
Grigoris said:
But there is nothing romanticised about the fact that not eating meat takes you out of direct involvement with the meat industry.

Norwegian said:
Not really. It is very common for companies who runs the meat industry to also be involved in the vegetable industry, etc. A new trend now is for meat companies to produce vegan food as well.

So by supporting those companies, you support the exact same group of people who also provides meat to people, and you have no control over where your money goes (it could be for the installment of a new slaughter house, you never know).

The only way to truly avoid these things is to grow your own food, but then you run into the dilemma of killing sentient beings when you till the soil, and having to protect your crops later on, etc...

Grigoris said:
I said direct involvement.

You too are using the flawed logic that: because war is unavoidable, you should become a soldier.

Malcolm wrote:
The only kind of direct involvement in killing is to see it, do it, or order it. None of that applies with respect to dead meat one finds in a store.

As mentioned above, the environmental and economic issues are separate from Buddhist teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 22nd, 2018 at 10:42 PM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:
Simon E. said:
The number of invertebrate animals killed each year as a result directly or indirectly of vegetable or cereal production is countless.

seeker242 said:
The question to ask is why does Situ Rinpoche not recognize the fact that the number of invertebrate animals killed each year increases 10 fold when the cereal is fed to cows, which is how almost all cows are fed these days? Perhaps he is just not aware of the fact that cows are fed grains? Does he think that all the cattle herds out there are out there just grazing in a pasture? If so, that doesn't match up with reality.
Extensive cattle ranching is the number one culprit of deforestation in virtually every Amazon country, and it accounts for 80% of current deforestation (Nepstad et al. 2008).
Why does he not take this into account? Is he not aware of how many invertebrate animals are killed when you clearcut a rainforest to make room for cattle farming?

Malcolm wrote:
No one is arguing that the production of meat is virtuous. We all agree it is not virtuous. But then, neither is agriculture in general. The production of food, cloth, etc., is destructive on the whole. In fact, virtually all human activity is destructive to other beings in one way or another. As I have said, the economic and environmental issues are separate from Buddhist teachings on the issue and should be kept separate.

With respect to the Buddha's teaching in Mahāyāna on eating meat, if we are to judge things by their commonality in the Mahāyāna sūtras, the question of meat eating does not come up very frequently, and and the prohibitions on consuming meat are exclusively found in sūtras considered by the Madhyamaka tradition to be of provisional meaning such as the Lanka, the tathāgatagarbha sūtras, and some lower tantras.

A text I have brought up before in this thread, the Blaze of Reasoning ( Tarkajvala ), a comprehensive Madhyamaka commentary, addresses various objections to meat-eating found in these sūtras, such as the claim that eating meat will make the body impure. Bhavya points out, for example, that the body is already impure by nature, thus eating meat will not make it more so. He points out a number of other inconsistencies in these sūtras as well. He does so to point out that the prohibition on consuming meat is not a definitive teaching, but is interpretable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 22nd, 2018 at 12:12 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Sennin said:
Hi,

I just want to put it out there that I strongly believe this seminar is an occasion not to be missed. We have the rare opportunity to dive into one of the oldest texts that gives a comprehensive commentary to the Dzogchen tantras; and what's even better is we will have the chance to learn from someone who knows the language precisely and can give an accurate presentation of what is being explained in this sublime text. I have met Acarya Malcolm in person and I can say without a doubt that he has clarified a lot of the confusion I had. Anyways I just wanted to share that because I think this is important.



PeterC said:
For that reason I very much hope that some format of recording will be available after the event for those of us who cannot be there.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, there will be. Eventually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 21st, 2018 at 7:27 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:
Sherab said:
This does not mean that there is no foundational layer.

Malcolm wrote:
Your ideas get worse by the second.

There is no foundational layer་ at all.

Sherab said:
You have a habit of making assertions rather than arguments.

Instead of the truncated version that you are making your assertion on, this is the full version of what I said.  Argue against that please.

"This does not mean that there is no foundational layer. Why? This is how I see it: because the perception where the final layer of things is not perceived is still dualistic. The foundational layer is not perceived through dualistic perception. Also, the ultimate is said to be indescribable and thus cannot be said to be a thing as understood by a dualistic mind."

Malcolm wrote:
The mere fact that you 1)  assert a foundation 2) assert that it cannot be described or understood with the mind puts your views outside the pale of the Buddhadharma.

I leave you to your conceptualizations. I won't be continuing this discussion with you any longer.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 21st, 2018 at 7:00 AM
Title: Re: Does the Buddha's Omniscient Mind Pervade the Universe Like Space?
Content:
Wayfarer said:
There is no 'that', right? When words such as 'pervading' are used, then you try to imagine 'what can that be'? But there is no objective reality there to know or grasp. That is one of the key characteristics of 'realisation' - realising the real nature of present reality which is not a 'that'. Which is why 'un-knowing' is fundamental, and why Prajñāpāramitā is the 'way of negation'.

Malcolm wrote:
Pervade simply means, "present in every instance." In this case, heat pervades all fires, meaning, in all instances of fire, there is heat.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 21st, 2018 at 6:56 AM
Title: Re: Killing & eating meat
Content:


pueraeternus said:
So by your logic there is no need to avoid products made by child labor, or fair trade, or companies that indulges in abominable practices. If we can't even activate ourselves to lessen the monstrous slavery and killing of sentient beings we can clearly see their suffering, then what kind of Bodhisattvas are we? Why use the excuse of insects and worms to continue encouraging the abominable factory farming practices? Even if there is still the problem of sentient beings dying in the farming process, we can at least reduce the deaths and hellish lives of billions of livestock, not even talking about the reduction of said insect death by reducing the need to grow feed for the livestock. And of course since we are at it, let's discount the fact that reducing livestock is one of the key elements in slowing down climate change due to the enormous amount of methane gas byproduct and massive loss of vegetation to support that industry.

Malcolm wrote:
These issues are distinct from what is permissible or prohibited to practitioners. Liberation through diet and clothes was not something the Buddha taught.

As to the hellish lives of billions of livestock, humanity has shown that animals that we use are more immune to extinction than those for which we find no use at all.

If and when we cease to use domestic animals for food, their very population will swiftly decline. This may indeed be a desiderata for some.

I also know that karma is unerring and that all that suffering is a result of karma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 21st, 2018 at 5:27 AM
Title: Re: Killing & eating meat
Content:



pueraeternus said:
In the modern age, this is obviously not the case, even for the vast majority of monastics. When we choose to buy and consume meat, we are consciously making a choice. I find it strange that for people who constantly laud the merits of a penetrative wisdom suddenly become doctrinaire when it comes to vegetarianism.

Malcolm wrote:
In this case buying meat is no different than buying milk, cheese, honey, cotton, wool, etc. If one should object to one, one must object to all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 21st, 2018 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: Karma and killing sentient beings
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
Whatever being "lived" in that sausage at the butcher shop moved out a long time ago, way before you got there.
Is there a difference between setting fire to me now, while I am alive,
and cremating my body after I die?

Mantrik said:
Then why whisper mantras over food?

Surely we are then wasting our time if there is no karmic link to the beings which died to bring it to us?

Malcolm wrote:
We use the meat as a means of directing our attention to that being. The mind is not obstructed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: Khenchen Pema Sherab Rinpoche
Content:
Aryjna said:
I wanted to ask if anyone can provide some information on Khenchen Pema Sherab Rinpoche. I just read that he will be giving several empowerments from the Longchen Nyingtik in London in May. It seems like a good opportunity but it is difficult to find anything more about him online than what is in the wiki.

http://palyul.eu/uk/
http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Khenchen_Pema_Sherab

Malcolm wrote:
As with all Lamas you don't know well, caveat emptor. I would spend time taking their non Vajrayāna teachings first.

Aryjna said:
In this case it doesn't seem possible. The only really reliable way is probably to have a reference from a teacher you trust.

Malcolm wrote:
I am sure he is fine. But in general, it is best if one can get some kind of take on the teacher before making serious Vajrayāna commitments.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 6:28 AM
Title: Re: Khenchen Pema Sherab Rinpoche
Content:
Aryjna said:
I wanted to ask if anyone can provide some information on Khenchen Pema Sherab Rinpoche. I just read that he will be giving several empowerments from the Longchen Nyingtik in London in May. It seems like a good opportunity but it is difficult to find anything more about him online than what is in the wiki.

http://palyul.eu/uk/
http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Khenchen_Pema_Sherab

Malcolm wrote:
As with all Lamas you don't know well, caveat emptor. I would spend time taking their non Vajrayāna teachings first.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 6:26 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:
Sherab said:
This does not mean that there is no foundational layer.

Malcolm wrote:
Your ideas get worse by the second.

There is no foundational layer་ at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Postures like Kurma are mentioned by their Sanskrit name in the 12th century Lamdre Yantra text composed by Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 5:06 AM
Title: Re: Karma and killing sentient beings
Content:



Mantrik said:
Oh yes, I see that. I guess it depends also upon the monk who is drawing the inference from what information they have.  You are saying that there is correct inference and incorrect inference, but maybe all that is required is an honest inference that the meat may not be suitable to eat, even if the connection is indirect,  rather than dealing in absolutes?

Malcolm wrote:
Some people argue, erroneously in my estimation, that meat for sale is the same as meat ordered specifically for oneself. However, if someone feels that personally, that is up to them. But if they try to convince me I should accept that point of view I will refute it.

Mantrik said:
In terms of vipaka rather than personal preference, would you agree that both monks in my example are fine, as both either ate the meat or did not eat the meat according to their honest inference?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, the same. No vipaka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 4:50 AM
Title: Re: Karma and killing sentient beings
Content:


Mantrik said:
It does, however, intepret one important aspect:
''Both versions say that the Buddha ..(whoc denies a rumour about his own conduct) .... clarifies that it is improper for his monastics to take meat when they have seen, heard, or suspected (by way of reasoning infer) that the animal has been killed for their sake.

So a reasonable inference that killing has happened 'for their sake' is important, not so much if the actually order it.
The importance for modern life is that it is therefore not necessary to see or hear the animal killed, only to have a reasonable suspicion that it was, and that there is a link to the meat offered, bought etc.

Malcolm wrote:
If you think a lobster has been killed because you order lobster, then it applies. If you are eating a steak however, there is no way that animal could be reasonably inferred to have been killed on your specific behalf.

When a beef cow is slaughtered in Denver, it is impossible for that butcher to know who will consume it unless you ordered it from the butcher himself. Likewise, if an ancient villager bought some meat that had been slaughtered the day before, when offered to a monk or nun, they can accept it.

This is a completely different issue from whether or not there should be abattoirs at all.

However, as long as we live in societies dominated by non-buddhists there will always be meat readily available. Thus, eating meat or not is a personal choice entirely unrelated to karma as long as one does not order, see, or know that animal was killed specifically for oneself, as in ordering a lobster and unlike ordering a streak.

Mantrik said:
Oh yes, I see that. I guess it depends also upon the monk who is drawing the inference from what information they have.  You are saying that there is correct inference and incorrect inference, but maybe all that is required is an honest inference that the meat may not be suitable to eat, even if the connection is indirect,  rather than dealing in absolutes?

Malcolm wrote:
Some people argue, erroneously in my estimation, that meat for sale is the same as meat ordered specifically for oneself. However, if someone feels that personally, that is up to them. But if they try to convince me I should accept that point of view I will refute it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 4:24 AM
Title: Re: Can a complete beginner benefit from Dzogchen practice?
Content:


smcj said:
Lama Norlha wouldn’t allow his people to do solitary retreats because without irritating people to provoke your defilements you might believe you’re getting somewhere. With irritation you see how your mind really is.

Malcolm wrote:
From personal experience I can tell you that when you are in solitary retreat you can find all kinds of things irritating.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 4:22 AM
Title: Re: Karma and killing sentient beings
Content:


Mantrik said:
It does, however, intepret one important aspect:
''Both versions say that the Buddha ..(whoc denies a rumour about his own conduct) .... clarifies that it is improper for his monastics to take meat when they have seen, heard, or suspected (by way of reasoning infer) that the animal has been killed for their sake.

So a reasonable inference that killing has happened 'for their sake' is important, not so much if the actually order it.
The importance for modern life is that it is therefore not necessary to see or hear the animal killed, only to have a reasonable suspicion that it was, and that there is a link to the meat offered, bought etc.

Malcolm wrote:
If you think a lobster has been killed because you order lobster, then it applies. If you are eating a steak however, there is no way that animal could be reasonably inferred to have been killed on your specific behalf.

When a beef cow is slaughtered in Denver, it is impossible for that butcher to know who will consume it unless you ordered it from the butcher himself. Likewise, if an ancient villager bought some meat that had been slaughtered the day before, when offered to a monk or nun, they can accept it.

This is a completely different issue from whether or not there should be abattoirs at all.

However, as long as we live in societies dominated by non-buddhists there will always be meat readily available. Thus, eating meat or not is a personal choice entirely unrelated to karma as long as one does not order, see, or know that animal was killed specifically for oneself, as in ordering a lobster and unlike ordering a streak.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 4:04 AM
Title: Re: Does the Buddha's Omniscient Mind Pervade the Universe Like Space?
Content:
Matt J said:
That sounds like the Buddha is omnipresent. This is how the Vedantins describe Brahman.

Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness pervades all phenomena.
The buddhas realize emptiness without any trace of knowledge obscuration.
Therefore, their unobscured knowledge pervades everything that is empty.
The difference is that what pervades phenomena is not buddhas. Emptiness is that which pervades phenomena, in other words, all phenomena are empty.

When we say pervades, we mean that all phenomena are similarly empty, just as all fires are similarly hot. It is not that there is one emptiness without a second that pervades all phenomena. And even emptiness is just a convention.

A Buddha is not omnipresent, they are unobstructed. There is a difference, subtle, but a difference that is important.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 4:02 AM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:
jbaumannmontilla said:
I also always wondered about this. I study Hatha yoga in Krishnamacharya lineage and also follow CNN. I never delved too deeply into Yantra Yoga because it seemed a little too hard physically for me. But I was stuck by similarities between Yantra Yoga and Krishnamacharya's approach . It seems that in YY the asanas are arranged and linked into vinyasas and that also that they are coordinated closely with pranayama, and with an emphasis on ujjayi. Krishnamacharya's approach to asana and pranayama seems very similar, although conceptually and spiritually he was basing himself in Yoga Sutra. It seems like academic consensus now is that Krishnamacharya was deeply influenced by European physical culture, but I always wondered if he was influenced by trulkor and tsa lung as well. Krishnamacharya claimed to have studied extensively in Tibet and Nepal, a claim which which academics seem to scoff at.

Malcolm wrote:
Krishanamacarya spent some time in Muktinatha in Nepal, close to the Tibetan border. For him, it was Tibet, Bhotia, as Tibet is called by Indians.

I mean, Indians regard Kailash as part of India, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 3:50 AM
Title: Re: Can a complete beginner benefit from Dzogchen practice?
Content:


florin said:
Some of these people who have done several retreats have been scarred by their experiences and left and never came back.

Some have benefited tremendously but very few.

Aryjna said:
I've heard this before a few times here, and it sounds quite strange. How can it be that they were scarred, the result should have been the opposite.

florin said:
Let's not cling to " should". These retreats,  especially when you are cooped up with 10 or 20 other prople of all kinds of inclinations temperaments  and knowledge  can be terribly intense and unpleasant. But some fare better than others.
I only did  one month of nyunye retreat and by the end of it i felt like i finished a 10 years prison sentence.
How about 4 years?

Malcolm wrote:
I did a 3.5 year solitary retreat. It was great. On the other hand, I had a bit of difficulty adjusting to normal life when I got out, but even so, it was very much worth it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 3:48 AM
Title: Re: Karma and killing sentient beings
Content:


Mantrik said:
Well, let's take it one aspect at a time. I think there are 2 aspects to this:

1. Is he correct that the original Pali in the Jivaka Sutta did not contain the 'slaughtered for oneself' qualifying clause, and are there contemporary Sanskrit texts which support or undermine this assumption?

Malcolm wrote:
This paper undermines the assertion of your friend: http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/43.4-Majjhima-Jivaka-S-m55-piya.pdf

Mantrik said:
2.  How does that apply to the Three Vows and those who practice according to them - is the vipaka going to be different for each of the three?

Malcolm wrote:
The consumption of meat is permitted for ṥrāvakas; forbidden for bodhisattvas, and permitted for those who practice inner tantras (but prohibited for those who follow outer tantras).

Mantrik said:
Well, it depends on one's perspective. If you regard the 3 Vows as applicable to different and to some extent (containing) discrete forms of Buddhism, one may argue that those Hinayana monastic rules are only appplicable to them. If however, you regard all later forms as revisions and developments of an original set of (Pali) teachings, then you are more likely to form the view that they also amended things in an 'attempt to justify their appetite for the flesh and blood of animals'.

Malcolm wrote:
The three vows are related to the path that one follows. The higher vow transforms the lower vow. Thus śrāvakas are absolutely forbidden from handling money, owning property, killing sentient beings, and drinking alcohol. Bodhisattvas may handle money, own property, and even kill sentient beings, if warranted and drink alcohol, but are prohibited from eating meat. Practitioners of inner tantras are permitted to handle money, own property, kill sentient beings if warranted, drink alcohol, and eat meat.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 2:30 AM
Title: Re: Karma and killing sentient beings
Content:
Mantrik said:
Another perspective on this from a Jonangpa Lama friend:

''In an attempt to justify their appetite for the flesh and blood of animals, some individuals allege that the Buddha permitted the consumption of meat under three conditions. This is a patently specious claim.

The Pali text of the Jivaka Sutta, the putative source of the infamous ‘three purities’ argument, states:

“I say that there are three instances in which meat should not be eaten: when it is seen, heard, or suspected. I say that meat should not be eaten in those three instances.

“I say that there are three instances in which meat may be eaten: when it is not seen, not heard, and not suspected. I say that meat may be eaten in these three instances.”

Clearly, the Buddha is stipulating here that if a monk inadvertently consumes meat that has been placed in his begging bowl, he is not at fault. His action is pure. However, if he sees, hears, or even suspects that there is animal flesh in his bowl, he must not eat it.

Later commentators gratuitously inserted the phrase “that the living being has been slaughtered for oneself” after each repetition of the word ‘suspected’. The phrase does not appear in the original Pali text. It is a spurious addition, making it seem as if the Buddha allowed his monks to eat meat when the animal was not expressly killed to feed them, or at least when they did not see, hear, or suspect it.''

Malcolm wrote:
This is a mistaken point of view. It is not correct at all. Your Jonang Lama friend needs to read Sapan's Three Vows as well as Bhavaviveka's perspective on the issue. Of course, Madhyamakas in general regard Tathāgatagarbha sutras as provisional as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 1:07 AM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:



Snowbear said:
You mentioned separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor. Who else is it that practices it?

Malcolm wrote:
It is fairly widespread in Eastern Tibet.

climb-up said:
And it's the same form as ChNN teaches? Same yantra movements and everything?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. Of course variations creep in, Tibetan tend to practice these with much more vigor than westerners. This is partially because it is so damn cold in Tibet


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2018 at 1:05 AM
Title: Re: Can a complete beginner benefit from Dzogchen practice?
Content:
smcj said:
What do you know now that you wish you had understood when you started?

Malcolm wrote:
Everything I know now and everything I will learn.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: Can a complete beginner benefit from Dzogchen practice?
Content:
smcj said:
... I'd not heard of Western Kagyupas doing 12+ except for Tenzin Palmo.

Malcolm wrote:
Whose main practice is actually Sakya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 10:25 PM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:


Simon E. said:
...Wendi Deng who was and apparently still is, a tool of the P.R.C.

Malcolm wrote:
And a close friend of Ivanka Trump.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 10:23 PM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:



Snowbear said:
Does anyone practice Bairo in the context of completion stage today or is it for the most part a stand-alone set of exercises that anyone can do?

Malcolm wrote:
Bairo Trulkhor also has various pranayāmas, and a kind of tummo. But no creation stage.

Snowbear said:
You mentioned separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor. Who else is it that practices it?

Malcolm wrote:
It is fairly widespread in Eastern Tibet.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 9:38 PM
Title: Re: Can a complete beginner benefit from Dzogchen practice?
Content:
smcj said:
Those are called “NgonDro“? If so, then ok.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, they are also called preliminaries (sngon 'gro).

In Dzogchen proper, the so-called tantic preliminaries (prostrations, etc.) are considered part of the common preliminaries; whereas the preliminary practices unique to Dzogchen are called uncommon preliminaries.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 12:11 PM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It definitely comes from Adzom Drukpa.

Snowbear said:
How did ChNN recieve it from Adzom Drukpa?

Malcolm wrote:
Adzom Drugpa > Orgyen Tenzin > ChNN

I am not sure from whom Adzom obtained it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 12:08 PM
Title: Re: Can a complete beginner benefit from Dzogchen practice?
Content:
Kunga Lhadzom said:
What exactly would a beginner be practicing first ?
I consider myself a beginner.  I had direct pointing out via webcast.  Attended a few other webcasts.
Attended the Lung (VIA WEBCAST) for Malcolms book, BUDDHA IN THIS LIFETIME..
But i don't know what i should be doing as far as practice.
Is it necessary to become a MEMBER of the Dzogchen community ?

THANK YOU


Malcolm wrote:
Ngondro.

chimechodra said:
Tantric or Dzogchen ngondro?

Malcolm wrote:
Gathering accumulations and purification.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 6:28 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:


Sherab said:
Here is my interpretation of what you are saying that Tsongkhapa was saying.  Correct me if I am wrong:
(1) Existence that is free from the extremes of eternalism and nihilism refutes existence in the ultimate (i.e. eternalism and nihilism).
(2) Non-existence of eternalism and nihilism refutes non-existence in the relative.

In other words, in (1), when you examine phenomena, they look like endless continuums from past to the future.  This refutes that kind of existence that are eternalism or nihilism.  In (2) Since the forms of existence as represented by eternalism and nihilism do not exist, it refutes these kinds of existence in the relative.  The kind of existence in the relative is therefore a form of existence that is neither eternalism nor nihilism.

If they above is correct, then there is no contradiction with my position.

Malcolm wrote:
Nope. That is not what Tsongkhapa means.

Sherab said:
Explain to me what Tsongkhapa meant then, giving your definitions of what existence and non-existence means in the said context.


Malcolm wrote:
Not existing in the ultimate means the ultimate truth is a simple nonaffirming negation of the inherent existence of things. Not non-existent in the relative means conventional existence is not rejected.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 3:58 AM
Title: Re: Is Bon Buddhadharma?
Content:
Simon E. said:
Do they say that they are Buddhists Malcolm? Or are they divided on the issue?

Malcolm wrote:
The meaning of Bon and Buddhism is the same. The object of refuge is different. Their object of refuge is Tonpa Shenrab, who was, in the opinion of most western scholars, mythologized into a Buddha (sangs gyas).

The main dispute between Buddhists and Bonpos is over history, not doctrine. The main criticism of Bon is that they just copied Indian Buddhism and reworked it, changing the names here and there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 3:39 AM
Title: Re: Can a complete beginner benefit from Dzogchen practice?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You can also just do Ati Guru Yoga. Or you can do both.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
How exactly do you practice Ati Guru Yoga ?
I think doing both would be beneficial for me...


Malcolm wrote:
Start with ngondro.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 3:28 AM
Title: Re: Can a complete beginner benefit from Dzogchen practice?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Start over fresh if you did not get very far, otherwise, pick up where you left off.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
OK...

I only did about 300
then i read something that let me cheat...so i thought i got away with it...



Malcolm wrote:
You can also just do Ati Guru Yoga. Or you can do both.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 3:22 AM
Title: Re: Can a complete beginner benefit from Dzogchen practice?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Ngondro.

Kunga Lhadzom said:
Oy vey....

i started it many years ago...but stopped....so i just pick up where i left off or start over... ?


Thank you Malcolm

Malcolm wrote:
Start over fresh if you did not get very far, otherwise, pick up where you left off.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: Is Bon Buddhadharma?
Content:
Simon E. said:
Interesting. Thanks J.D.  I have had no flesh and blood experience at all of Bonpos. I noticed a  Bon thread recently and realised that I had literally no idea what they are about.

Malcolm wrote:
For all intents and purposes, they are Buddhists.

The general scholarly consensus is that they borrowed many Buddhist teachings and recast them into a narrative reflecting Tibetan cultural debts to Zhang Zhung and Central Asia, rather than India. Naturally, Bonpos in general dispute the latter claim and claim on the contrary that Indian Buddhism is ultimately derived from Bon, similar to the way Taoists claimed that the Buddha was a student of Lao Tzu.

The Bonpos preserve a lot of lore important to understanding many Tibetan religious ideas that do not derive necessarily from India, China, or other sources.

The study of Tibetology is incomplete without the study of Bon.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 3:13 AM
Title: Re: Can a complete beginner benefit from Dzogchen practice?
Content:
Kunga Lhadzom said:
What exactly would a beginner be practicing first ?
I consider myself a beginner.  I had direct pointing out via webcast.  Attended a few other webcasts.
Attended the Lung (VIA WEBCAST) for Malcolms book, BUDDHA IN THIS LIFETIME..
But i don't know what i should be doing as far as practice.
Is it necessary to become a MEMBER of the Dzogchen community ?

THANK YOU


Malcolm wrote:
Ngondro.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 3:06 AM
Title: Re: Does the Buddha's Omniscient Mind Pervade the Universe Like Space?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness pervades all phenomena.
The buddhas realize emptiness without any trace of knowledge obscuration.
Therefore, their unobscured knowledge pervades everything that is empty.


Matt J said:
So Dr. Berzin states that an omniscient Buddha mind pervades the universe like space. I'm not sure what to make of it.

Thoughts?
The Buddhas are those who have eliminated all their confusion so that they are able to use their potentials fully to benefit others. On the definitive level, the safe direction of the Buddhas is provided by their dharmakaya or bodies encompassing everything - namely, their omniscient awareness and its nature, both of which encompass everything. The rupakaya or body of forms that Buddhas manifest serve as the interpretable level, while Buddha statues and paintings are the representation of the first precious gem.
From Gelug-Kagyu Tradition of Mahamudra

Also:
A Buddha’s omniscient mind pervades all knowable objects and, from an anuttarayoga tantra point of view, is purely a subtlest clear light level of mind. Since a Buddha’s subtlest wind and subtlest clear light mind have the same essential nature (ngo-bo gcig), a Buddha’s subtlest wind also pervades all phenomena – for example, all phenomena that are forms of physical phenomena (gzugs, Skt, rupa, form). This is similar to space (nam-mkha’) pervading all forms of physical phenomena. Taking the four elements – earth, water, fire, and wind – of some form of physical phenomena, such as the table, as a basis for imputation (gdags-gzhi), we can impute not only space on that basis, but also the person (gang-zag) of a Buddha.

But since the referent object of the labeling (btags-chos) and the basis for imputation are not the same, then just as the table is not the space of the table, so too the Buddha that we meditate on as being imputed on the basis of the table is not the table. Thus, we can meditate on the Buddha as being imputed on everything and everywhere, but that does not make Buddha identical to the universe or Buddha as being the size of the universe. Thus, the Buddhist assertion of a Buddha’s omniscient mind pervading the universe is not equivalent to the non-Buddhist Samkhya and Vaisheshika assertions of persons (skyes-bu, Skt. purusha) or “souls” (bdag, Skt. atman; selves) pervading the universe and being static, partless, and existing independently of a body or mind.
https://studybuddhism.com/en/advanced-studies/lam-rim/the-five-aggregates/physical-bodies-of-buddhas-and-arhats


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 19th, 2018 at 12:07 AM
Title: Re: Killing & eating meat
Content:
seeker242 said:
And if someone can't see that animals need to be killed to get meat, then they must have some kind of brain damage.

Malcolm wrote:
You and I are using the term "see" differently. You are using it to mean "know." I am using the term in the sense of "personally witness."

The Buddha forbad the consumption of meat of an animal that one had personally witnessed being slaughtered.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 11:52 PM
Title: Re: Karma and killing sentient beings
Content:
Vasana said:
So is there vipaka if you purchase meat from a farmer or a company who you know will put some of that money into further killing of which it is probable you will also purchase in the future?

Isn't any support of another's actions still support?

Malcolm wrote:
If you make this argument, let's say you buy a tomato from a grocer.  And that grocer also sells meat, milk, cheese, etc., all products that require killing (cows have to be impregnated and with calves to make milk). If you take seriously this reasoning you have presented, you have to accept that spending any money at a grocers is "support."

I suggest that there are two issues, which are unrelated to one another. One concerns the ethics of animal husbandry over humanitarian and environmental issues. This is a valid discussion on its own merits. It is demonstrable that industrial agriculture is toxic and bad for the environment in general. It is demonstrable that the conditions of the animals in Concentrated Animal Feed Operations (CAFO) are dreadful.

The second, and the one that concerns us here, is to what extent we bear a karmic burden if we eat meat or participate in an economy in which this practice of eating meat is present. And what, if any impact meat eating has on our path. The latter issue is resolved via an examination of three vows. Analyzed this way, meat is permissible for śrāvakas, forbidden for Mahāyanīs, and permissible for those who practice Niruttarayogatantra (but not practitioner of the three lower tantras).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: Killing & eating meat
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
There are always sentient beings underfoot, every step we take. Just because we cannot see them does not mean they are not there.

seeker242 said:
"Not seeing them" isn't applicable because everyone sees animals are killed to make meat. And then they try to pretend like they have no responsibility in the matter.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course it is applicable.

And no, everyone does not see animals being killed for food. These days, in modern western society, the only people who see animals being killed for food are those who work in abattoirs, etc. The average person never sees animals being killed for food.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 7:52 AM
Title: Re: Bonpo Trigram Legends
Content:
Lhasa said:
So we don't count the Dog when beginning, number 1 would be Bird/garuda?
Also, this year, 2018, I am 67, and that gives me a dragon sign.  In three days I'll be 68, and that will change the sign, which one is correct?

Malcolm wrote:
Your animal is based on Tibetan new years, not your western birthday. If you were born in 1951, you were born in the female metal hare year.



Lhasa said:
1950

Malcolm wrote:
Then male metal tiger


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 7:44 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
But it is not a definitive teaching from a Vajrayana perspective, as both Sakya Pandita and ChNN point out. The Hevajra Tantra states “those with Samaya drink alcohol, those with compassion eat meat.”

Thomas Amundsen said:
I found this video recently, which is quite relevant to the conversation. Khenpo Sodargye of Larung Gar says that the "not seen, heard, or suspected" three purities are essentially a lower teaching and that the Mahayana teachings of vegetarianism are definitive. For this reason, Khenpo asks his students to be vegetarian and apparently Larung Gar is entirely or mostly a vegetarian institution.

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https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 7:41 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Tsongkhapa's point of view, that  "existence" refutes existence in the ultimate, whereas "nonexistence" refutes nonexistence in the relative is infinitely preferable to your formulation.

Sherab said:
Here is my interpretation of what you are saying that Tsongkhapa was saying.  Correct me if I am wrong:
(1) Existence that is free from the extremes of eternalism and nihilism refutes existence in the ultimate (i.e. eternalism and nihilism).
(2) Non-existence of eternalism and nihilism refutes non-existence in the relative.

In other words, in (1), when you examine phenomena, they look like endless continuums from past to the future.  This refutes that kind of existence that are eternalism or nihilism.  In (2) Since the forms of existence as represented by eternalism and nihilism do not exist, it refutes these kinds of existence in the relative.  The kind of existence in the relative is therefore a form of existence that is neither eternalism nor nihilism.

If they above is correct, then there is no contradiction with my position.

Malcolm wrote:
Nope. That is not what Tsongkhapa means.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 4:26 AM
Title: Re: Bonpo Trigram Legends
Content:
Lhasa said:
So we don't count the Dog when beginning, number 1 would be Bird/garuda?
Also, this year, 2018, I am 67, and that gives me a dragon sign.  In three days I'll be 68, and that will change the sign, which one is correct?

Malcolm wrote:
Your animal is based on Tibetan new years, not your western birthday. If you were born in 1951, you were born in the female metal hare year.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 4:22 AM
Title: Re: Bonpo Trigram Legends
Content:
kalden yungdrung said:
Malcolm wrote:

Kalacakra does not have the trigrams in it.
Well i thought always until now of yes. Maybe the under depicted photo, does not belong to the Kalachakra Tantra.

Kalachakra - 02.jpg

Malcolm wrote:
This diagram is not based on Kalacakra, the Kalacakra mantra is there for auspiciousness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 4:08 AM
Title: Karma and killing sentient beings
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is only vipaka if you see, hear of or order a sentient being killed for you.

Mantrik said:
Thanks.  That is what I was seeking to clarify.

What if you confine it, beat it, skin it alive etc.....surely there must be vipaka from the karma of making other beings suffer that way?

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, if you personally do these things or directly order others to do them, then there is vipaka. But if you didn't, there is none, even if you see it happening.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 3:39 AM
Title: Re: Bonpo Trigram Legends
Content:
kalden yungdrung said:
Tashi delek.   

As a TCM practitioner, i am involved on a regular base with Taiosm principles like Yin and Yang. The Pa kua is a fundamental part used in one of the 5 Chinese classical Chings, the I Ching the book of oracles. 
 
Here it is clear that the Pa Kua is very old and has as well in TCM as Bon so its own history with nice examples.

What is very similar in both cultures is the turtle as the source of the Pa Kua.
Further interesting philosophy regarding Taoism would be the prime cause or the Wu Chi out of everything is originated.

That resembles very much the emptiness aspect known in Dzogchen etc.

kirtu said:
I'm stunned.  BTW - Taoism is essentialist, at least in the interpretation of my former Taoist teacher (and presumably his teacher).  Essentialist in this case means something close to atmanistic if not directly atmanistic (because along the way to enlightenment in Taoism the spirit is basically an essential element and it is further developmend usimg a kind of spiritual alchemny).

Anyway, that Bon also has an interpretation of Bagua is stunning and fascinating.

Kirt

kalden yungdrung said:
Tashi delek K,

Yes it is stunning and i asked one very educated Geshela today about the source of the Pa Kua / Ba gua and he assured me it was a teaching of Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche.

We have also a Chinese "Kung Fu" style Pa Kua which is a certain style which is stepped in circle patterns, with a certain palm technic which goes round. Practised this for a short time in my youth, never finished it.



Then we can consider that the story of the turtle is also known in Taoism as well the "founder" of that,  the Medicine man dressed in herbal leaves, forgot his name. Would be around 3000 - 5000 B.Chr.

The I Ching is one of the best divination books i know and it was my first book together with the Tibetan book of the dying.
Here the 64 signs or trigrams can predict for me every situation and it never fails in the right prediction.
The person who likes to know, throws my 3 blessed silver coins and i tell the person what he/she will meet/experience etc.
I Ching never was wrong and the persons who consulted me know that the hexagram "knew" the question .
The answer was always to the point and never mistaken and i could give always the right story, cannot explain that, it goes automatic.

So the Pa Kua is a very powerful  tool to predict and it never fails to do so, based on my 49 years experience with this I Ching.
Therefore i can believe it that the Pa Kua is used also elsewhere, like in China and i can imagine myself that the Pa Kua is of Bön origin.
Ok here we can have different meanings, but i am convinced that Bön was spread to China and Uddhiyana.

if the Pa Kua would be Chinese of origin, then the Kalachakra Tantra would also be a mixed up Tantra somehow and that is what i do not believe.


Malcolm wrote:
Kalacakra does not have the trigrams in it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 3:36 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:
Simon E. said:
I think we all have to wrestle with the complexities of these issues..even when they appear to be clear cut.  So, for example, you say that the insects are not intentionally killed in order to provide vegetables and fruit Mantrik.
I'm sorry but they are.
All commercial crops of vegetables, fruits and grains are treated with substances to kill insects. If they are grown on an organic farm they will be treated with Bordeaux mixture or nicotine or something similar.. which pass the criteria needed for the produce to be considered organic. But whose express useage is to kill invertebrates which otherwise will reduce yields considerably, in some cases the yield will be reduced to zero.
Obviously many invertebrates are killed unintentionally in order to produce food plants..but many others are killed with conscious intention.
Without organic insecticides, few brassicas would make it to the shops, due to caterpillars, and few potatoes would be free of wireworm.
What Situ R. et al are saying is that we in the west subconsciously assume that the life of a  caterpillar is worth less than the life of a cow.  Largely because they are smaller. But a caterpillar avoids painful stimuli just as avidly as does a cow or sheep.

Mantrik said:
The insects are in the wrong place at the wrong time.  The livestock have no choice.

Malcolm wrote:
No, in all of these cases it is the ripening of their own karma.


Mantrik said:
Now, we are in danger of conflating two issues.  The issue is not about some perceived 'value' of each being's life, but their capacity to experience suffering etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Sentient beings are sentient beings. They experience pain and suffer.

Mantrik said:
To compare an insect's reaction to pain with a self-aware mammal and its anticipation of suffering, its life probably spent in misery in unnatural environments etc. is to completely ignore the facts. Unless you really think skinning a dog alive in a meat market is the same in suffering as treading on an ant.

Malcolm wrote:
This assumes insects are not self-aware (false) and bovine, etc., pain and suffering is somehow less trivial than the suffering of birds, insects and small mammals harmed in food production through dismemberment, poisoning, and crushing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 3:32 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:



Mantrik said:
Well, I challenge that it is certain

Malcolm wrote:
No you don't.



Mantrik said:
but accept that it is likely. I can pick an apple and may not actually harm a sentient being, but the next day may crush an ants' nest and eat a maggot. Neither the insects nor the person can possibly know for sure what may happen as an UNINTENDED consequence. Again, if I buy veg or fruit I cannot possibly know what beings will be harmed when the store grows more.

Malcolm wrote:
It does not matter that you do not know the specific being being killed. It is sufficient to know that harm to sentient beings is an inevitable aspect of agricultural activity.


Mantrik said:
Since cattle and sheep also eat vegetation, this is added to the vipaka from meat production, and I can be absolutely certain that demand created for meat will result in killing.

Malcolm wrote:
Nope. There is no vipaka from eating meat bought from a market.


Mantrik said:
So, I  want to know if the vipaka of the vegetarian who may cause unintended deaths is the same as the vipaka of the meat eater who also causes those unintended deaths and in addition the planned and deliberate killing of beings for their flesh.

Malcolm wrote:
In fact, there is no vipaka at all in any these scenarios. There is only vipaka if you see, hear of or order a sentient being killed for you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 2:36 AM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:
Mantrik said:
Can we clarify the aspect of karma and vipaka here?

If I participate in the process of planned meat production by ordering a whole carcass (as Simon gave as an example) I am pretty sure of my intention and that the animal was killed 'for me'.  So my karma in ordering it is directly connected to the suffering, pain and death. It is absolutely connected if I kill the being whilst hunting of course.

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on whether one orders a carcass before or after it was killed. If was killed on your order, then you own that karma and its ripening. If not, then not.

Mantrik said:
If I buy meat, I can be sure the store will plan future slaughter on the basis of the demand I create with others who eat their meat.  (The Olympics, for example, have huge breeding and slaughter plans based on previous demand at events.)  So my karma in buying it is, at best, indirectly linked to killing. If I order the meat from a farm, for example, then it is as the first example, directly connected.

If I eat veg and fruit, some beings are killed in the process. However, and this is a big however, I did not plan to identify specific beings and knowingly kill them or order their deaths. I did not round them up and spray them or slice them up with a plough, they just happened to be there. So, is my action considered 'complete'?

Malcolm wrote:
You can be certain that all the food you buy involves harming sentient beings, and that in creating more demand for more food, you will be harming more sentient beings.

You cause suffering just by wearing clothes. Cotton, for example, is one of the most pesticide-heavy crops there is. When wool is sheared, millions of creatures are sliced in half, not to mention the suffering of the sheep.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 2:30 AM
Title: Re: Killing & eating meat
Content:



seeker242 said:
And the question to ask now is: is causing unnecessary harm to others leading towards that end or away from that end?

Malcolm wrote:
If you step on insect while walking without being aware of it, will this lead you further to that end or away from it? Or is it irrelevant?

seeker242 said:
If you step somewhere knowing full well that stepping there will kill insects and you have an opportunity to step somewhere else, but you step there anyway,  is that Irrelevant?

Malcolm wrote:
There are always sentient beings underfoot, every step we take. Just because we cannot see them does not mean they are not there.


seeker242 said:
The problem with the doctrine of Devadatta was that It didn’t have anything to do with wanting to not harm animals.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure it did.

seeker242 said:
Vegan ideology doesn’t involve trying to murder someone because you’re jealous of them. Devadatta was jealous of the Buddha and that’s all his doctrine was about.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is false. Devadatta wanted the rules of strict asceticism imposed because he was afraid the Buddha and monks would be criticized by the Jains.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Bonpo Trigram Legends
Content:


Lhasa said:
This is really interesting, in the non-Bon tradition, I'm a metal Tiger....big difference.

Malcolm wrote:
You are also a metal tiger in Bon rtsi. There is virtually no difference between 'byung rtsi in Bön and Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 18th, 2018 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: Bonpo Trigram Legends
Content:


kalden yungdrung said:
In the Bön chart:
bird = dragon
ox is elephant.

Malcolm wrote:
No, bird is garuda in Bon elemental calculation. Note: I see you changed it.

Please consult my translation available from Chapur Rinpoche's site, done in collaboration with him when he gave a course a couple of years ago.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 11:30 PM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:
Snowbear said:
I understand it to be prep for completion stage practices in Kagyu, and done privately in a closed area. Is it customary to teach it that early and openly in Dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
Bairo Trulkhor does not require a creation stage, though at one time it may have been associated with Śrī Heruka (aka Yang dag) since it ultimately comes from Huṃkara.

M

Snowbear said:
Does anyone practice Bairo in the context of completion stage today or is it for the most part a stand-alone set of exercises that anyone can do?

Malcolm wrote:
Bairo Trulkhor also has various pranayāmas, and a kind of tummo. But no creation stage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 6:36 AM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:
pemachophel said:
"Oh, I am not saying that it should not be kept within the confines of initiation. But the word "secret" in Dzogchen and Vajrayāna in general merely means that these principles are not known in lower vehicles, not that they are confidential like a top secret file."

the three teachers i'm thinking about kept dzogchen more secret than your description. no dzogchen until ngon-dro completed. one wouldn't even use the word rigpa.

Malcolm wrote:
Pretty hard to avoid using the word rig pa in a Dzogchen ngpondro.

Gathering accumulations and purification is a good thing. Different teachers have different approaches to how these things are bestowed. People have different karma, different experiences, and need different approaches. There is no one size fits all when it comes to Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 6:28 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:


Sherab said:
That does not mean that you get a free pass to be fast and loose with the rules of logic and valid reasoning.

Malcolm wrote:
All we need to do is show the opponents position is self-contradictory, as in your assertion there is an ultimate that is free from two extremes which is merely an affirmation of existence.

Tsongkhapa's point of view, that  "existence" refutes existence in the ultimate, whereas "nonexistence" refutes nonexistence in the relative is infinitely preferable to your formulation.

Sherab said:
You keep refusing to accept that once existence and non-existence are properly defined and that when you work within those boundaries, you can no longer make your allegations against the analysis that I have presented, an analytical method that you have so far been unable to say is incorrect.  All you did is just to dance around my arguments in order to avoid having to confront the logical inconsistency in your very own statements of the ultimate and the conventional.

Malcolm wrote:
Your definitions are not consistent with the definitions of these things in scripture.

It is natural that when we accept the opponents definitions in toto, he has already won. But your definition of ultimate truth is wrong from the outset.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 6:20 AM
Title: Re: Killing & eating meat
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Since there is no mind in a steak in a market, when you cook it are you harming a sentient being or not?

practitioner said:
Of course steaks don't just appear out of thin air and end up in a market.  There is real suffering that must occur to produce that steak.  And if the market for steaks is minimized, the suffering of cows will be as well.

Malcolm wrote:
Of coarse tomatoes do not just appear out of thin air either. There is real suffering that must occur for the millions of insects, birds, and rodents that are poisoned, trapped, and otherwise killed in the coarse of the production of vegetables, etc., for human consumption too. If the market for tomatoes, etc., was minimized, the suffering of insects, rodents, and birds would be minimized as well.

If we stopped eating tomatoes from the market, and fruit, and everything else, all that suffering would be prevented, right? Or would it? No, because in general the nature of samsara is suffering, and animals have no way out of it at all.

It just isn't a simple, "Don't eat meat and everything will be hunky dory." This is why Buddha rejected Devadatta's desire to force the Sangha to be vegetarian.

For example, if one saves the fly, the spider starves. Whose suffering is more important, that of the fly or the spider?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 5:37 AM
Title: Re: Killing & eating meat
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The only salient point is this: in Dharma, liberation is not predicated on one's diet. It is predicated on whether one is free of afflictions.

seeker242 said:
And the question to ask now is: is causing unnecessary harm to others leading towards that end or away from that end?

Malcolm wrote:
If you step on insect while walking without being aware of it, will this lead you further to that end or away from it? Or is it irrelevant? If you drive a car on a spring evening when you know millions of insects are flying around, is the harm you are certainly doing intentional or unintentional? Since there is no mind in a steak in a market, when you cook it are you harming a sentient being or not? If you heat your house at all with anything other than solar, are you harming all life on the planet or not?

The problem with Vegan ideology in Buddhadharma is that it is basically the doctrine of Devadatta. It is too extreme, and is not the middle way.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 4:27 AM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:
Snowbear said:
I understand it to be prep for completion stage practices in Kagyu, and done privately in a closed area. Is it customary to teach it that early and openly in Dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
Bairo Trulkhor does not require a creation stage, though at one time it may have been associated with Śrī Heruka (aka Yang dag) since it ultimately comes from Huṃkara.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 3:54 AM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:
pemachophel said:
ime, whether dzogchen is kept secret or not depends on the individual teacher. i've had three teachers who kept dzogchen extremely secret even though it was being broadcast openly all around them.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, I am not saying that it should not be kept within the confines of initiation. But the word "secret" in Dzogchen and Vajrayāna in general merely means that these principles are not known in lower vehicles, not that they are confidential like a top secret file.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: Killing & eating meat
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The only salient point is this: in Dharma, liberation is not predicated on one's diet. It is predicated on whether one is free of afflictions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 1:55 AM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:


dzogchungpa said:
Well, apparently some received ideas are myths so perhaps a few myths have crept into your preferred narrative. Anyway, like I said, it doesn't really matter, have to run.

Malcolm wrote:
Alternately, like many before you, you have fallen for the "secrecy" marketing scheme. Worked wonders for Masonry too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 1:53 AM
Title: Re: Mohe Zhiguan Study Thread 摩訶止觀 Part 1
Content:



Queequeg said:
Thank you. That presently has little meaning for me, but I will keep that in mind as I get familiar with it.

Malcolm wrote:
The true aspect/false aspect debate within Yogacāra was whether or not mental experience corresponded with an external reality. The false aspectarians, generally considered the more profound system, argued there was no correspondence.

Queequeg said:
I don't know if you looked at it, but in Jikai's latest outline, he briefly discusses the Three Natures - Tri-Svabhava. Is that related to the debate?

Malcolm wrote:
The three natures is central to the debate. The question is whether the imputed nature's appearance has an external correlate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 1:14 AM
Title: Re: Mohe Zhiguan Study Thread 摩訶止觀 Part 1
Content:
Queequeg said:
Out of curiosity, how do the Fa Hsiang Chinese writings compare with the Indian antecedents? Did you identify any differences?

Malcolm wrote:
Well, I have not really read anything other than the book recommended above. But it is pure, Indian Yogacāra from the middle period. A bit earlier than the true aspectarian-false aspectarian debates that came to dominate later Yogacāra discourse. As such, having read it, you will have no trouble with Bodhisattvabhumi, Mahayānasaṃgraha, Madhyantavibhagabhasyaṃ and so forth.

Queequeg said:
Thank you. That presently has little meaning for me, but I will keep that in mind as I get familiar with it.

Malcolm wrote:
The true aspect/false aspect debate within Yogacāra was whether or not mental experience corresponded with an external reality. The false aspectarians, generally considered the more profound system, argued there was no correspondence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 1:12 AM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:
Snowbear said:
There is an obvious parallel to modern transnational yoga's asanas in YY, which indicates to me that YY is not trulkhor in the traditional sense. When you say you were exposed to other trulkhor systems, do you mean like on YouTube?

Malcolm wrote:
The Lamdre Yantra system also has a system of 32 asanas that greatly resemble what we call Hathayoga. It's basic texts were codified in the 12th century.

YY is yantra in the traditional sense, actually. Whether it actually comes from Vairocana is a historical claim I cannot validate, but there are separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor in Tibet, not just ChNN's. It definitely comes from Adzom Drukpa.

Snowbear said:
Do you know why ChNN felt OK to teach trulkhor openly?

Malcolm wrote:
He did so to see if people would be ready for his teachings in general. He was teaching Yantra in the early 70's in Italy, some years before he began to teach Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 17th, 2018 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:


dzogchungpa said:
The issue is not whether the existence of Dzogchen was secret or how large its associated literature is, but rather how rare it has been to receive the pointing out instructions or whatever.

Malcolm wrote:
Not rare at all. Instructions for ritual murder were and are much more restricted than any Dzogchen transmission. Then of course, any major treasure cycle must have three things: Guru, Avalokiteśvara, and Dzogchen.

dzogchungpa said:
This rarity may have varied historically, so citing certain specific cases is not sufficient. E.g., it is quite possible that there were more qualified students at various times etc.

Malcolm wrote:
In the 12th century, Nyangral Nyima Ozer states that after Chegom (early 12th century) the teaching of the 17 tantras were very wide spread in Tibet. There is simply no evidence that Dzogchen ever waned in popularity or was actually kept in the strictest of secrecy.

Finally, because Dzogchen was seen as controversial in the dominant monastic colleges of the day, it mainly spread outside monasteries among the laity, and the vast majority of Dzogchen literature, then as now, was committed to writing by lay tertons.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 11:59 PM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:




dzogchungpa said:
I'm quite willing to believe this but, just out of curiosity, how do you know this?

Malcolm wrote:
By reading Buddhist history and literature for the past 33 years?


dzogchungpa said:
Well, what did you read that shows that this was the case?

Malcolm wrote:
You mean is there one book that demonstrates this? No, but it is obvious when one reads through Tibetan history that Dzogchen was a very poorly kept secret for something so reserved, esoteric, and only for the elect. Dzogchen masters like Rigzin Godem had thousands of students, same with many popular tertons like Jatson Nying, Dudul Dorje, Jigme Lingpa, etc. For something so secret, it is amazing there is more literature on Dzogchen in Tibetan literature than any other tantric genre. I mean, if Dzogchen is so secret, how is it possible that 100,000 monks at Kathog attained rainbow body, as the story goes? Kathog was the earliest Nyimgma monastery, founded in the 12th century by Deshek Dampa, Phamgo Drukpa's younger brother.

That equals 100 monks a year for the past thousand years attaining rainbow body, 8.3 per month— one rainbow body every 3.6 days for the past thousand years!


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 11:49 PM
Title: Re: Uncertain about Key Point of Tantra
Content:
sangyey said:
Hello,

I know that Tantra speaks about the unity of conventional and ultimate truth or the feature of there being the unity of this in one act of consciousness but I am uncertain if this is something that runs through all of Tantra or if it something that comes into play only during a specific phase. For example, if you are practicing the generation stage with the visualization of the deity and the mantra repetition besides merely focusing on the deity or the mantra do you try to have the two aspects unified or is it something that will only occur in a specific section of the practice?

Thank you.

Malcolm wrote:
When you are a beginner, you generally practice the two stages, creation (relative) and completion (ultimate), in stages. But the real intention is that the two stages be unified from the beginning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 11:36 PM
Title: Re: Mohe Zhiguan Study Thread 摩訶止觀 Part 1
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
The latter text is the basic text of the Hosso (Fa Hsiang) school. Enjoy reading it. I did.

If you want to understand the Indian antecendents, there are a number of basic Yogacāra texts in translation these days.

Queequeg said:
Out of curiosity, how do the Fa Hsiang Chinese writings compare with the Indian antecedents? Did you identify any differences?

Malcolm wrote:
Well, I have not really read anything other than the book recommended above. But it is pure, Indian Yogacāra from the middle period. A bit earlier than the true aspectarian-false aspectarian debates that came to dominate later Yogacāra discourse. As such, having read it, you will have no trouble with Bodhisattvabhumi, Mahayānasaṃgraha, Madhyantavibhagabhasyaṃ and so forth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 11:16 PM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Maybe not so much a problem when Dzogchen mind point out/rigpa tsal wang was so rarely given, so secret, and so strict in both guru and student's qualification, while nowadays.....
The idea that this was rare or difficult to get is an institutional myth. Secrecy is Vajrayāna's main marketing tool.


dzogchungpa said:
I'm quite willing to believe this but, just out of curiosity, how do you know this?

Malcolm wrote:
By reading Buddhist history and literature for the past 33 years?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Comparing idioms.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sarva dukkhaṃ, Suffering everywhere.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:
Matt J said:
I thought the four extremes were supposed to be exhaustive of conceptual positions.

Malcolm wrote:
Unless one turns that into a conceptual position.

There is nothing in the middle. Hence, this is why the "Freedom from Extremes" exponents report "gnas lug med pa," i.e., no reality.

Sherab does not seem to understand that all theism can be rebutted by Buddhapalita's simple argument: "Arising from self is invalid because arising would be purposeless and endless."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 10:33 PM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:
narraboth said:
It always puzzles me that, how come people who actually received mind instruction and 'got it' ever possible to stand up against that certain guru, as DJKR said 'you owe him the world for it'? Does that supposedly greatest moment so insignificant for some people, that they think when they find out the certain guru behaved badly, they don't owe that guru that favour anymore? Or actually it's so insignificant, because it was given in a wrong way, therefore insignificant for students?

Malcolm wrote:
People overrate their own capacity to "get it."

narraboth said:
When we need to seriously talk about samaya based on text and commentaries, including unconventional pointing-out instruction really make defining samaya establishing and breakage quite difficult.

Malcolm wrote:
This is all very clearly explained in tantras such as the Rigpa Rangshar. 1) A qualified guru is indispensable. 2) Empowerments are indispensable 3) Protecting the samaya one receives from empowerment is indispensable. 4) Gurus can break samaya, and if so, the breach is irreparable.


narraboth said:
Maybe not so much a problem when Dzogchen mind point out/rigpa tsal wang was so rarely given, so secret, and so strict in both guru and student's qualification, while nowadays.....

Malcolm wrote:
The idea that this was rare or difficult to get is an institutional myth. Secrecy is Vajrayāna's main marketing tool.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 8:40 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Madhyamaka arguments are not formal proofs in logic. They are rebuttals of other's positions.

Sherab said:
That does not mean that you get a free pass to be fast and loose with the rules of logic and valid reasoning.

Coëmgenu said:
The four extremes, though, in a way, are logic to a certain extent, inasmuch as anything that one could "logically" come up with is included within those extremes.

Affirmation
Negation
Some combination of both
Suggesting "something else" as the solution.

The "logic" of Madhyamaka is in its consistency and internal justifications. Ultimately it is working with what is essentially a "illogical" proposition. Depending on how one views "logical", the entire Buddhadharma is illogical.

Malcolm wrote:
Madhyamakas do not make ultimate propositions at all. They merely show the flaws of others ultimate propositions. Thus we have no need to demonstrate any internal coherency since we are merely dismantling the propositions of others.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 8:40 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Madhyamaka arguments are not formal proofs in logic. They are rebuttals of other's positions.

Sherab said:
That does not mean that you get a free pass to be fast and loose with the rules of logic and valid reasoning.

Malcolm wrote:
All we need to do is show the opponents position is self-contradictory, as in your assertion there is an ultimate that is free from two extremes which is merely an affirmation of existence.

Tsongkhapa's point of view, that  "existence" refutes existence in the ultimate, whereas "nonexistence" refutes nonexistence in the relative is infinitely preferable to your formulation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 8:34 AM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:
Snowbear said:
There is an obvious parallel to modern transnational yoga's asanas in YY, which indicates to me that YY is not trulkhor in the traditional sense. When you say you were exposed to other trulkhor systems, do you mean like on YouTube?

Malcolm wrote:
The Lamdre Yantra system also has a system of 32 asanas that greatly resemble what we call Hathayoga. It's basic texts were codified in the 12th century.

YY is yantra in the traditional sense, actually. Whether it actually comes from Vairocana is a historical claim I cannot validate, but there are separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor in Tibet, not just ChNN's. It definitely comes from Adzom Drukpa.

bryandavis said:
Malcom,

What dates do you put the root text of the trulkhor nyida khajor in the big yantra book?

Malcolm wrote:
No clue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 4:59 AM
Title: Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Content:
Snowbear said:
There is an obvious parallel to modern transnational yoga's asanas in YY, which indicates to me that YY is not trulkhor in the traditional sense. When you say you were exposed to other trulkhor systems, do you mean like on YouTube?

Malcolm wrote:
The Lamdre Yantra system also has a system of 32 asanas that greatly resemble what we call Hathayoga. It's basic texts were codified in the 12th century.

YY is yantra in the traditional sense, actually. Whether it actually comes from Vairocana is a historical claim I cannot validate, but there are separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor in Tibet, not just ChNN's. It definitely comes from Adzom Drukpa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 3:49 AM
Title: Re: Mohe Zhiguan Study Thread 摩訶止觀 Part 1
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Read Asanga:

http://www.bdkamerica.org/system/files/pdf/dBET_Beta_T1593_SummaryoftheGreatVehicle_2003.pdf?file=1&type=node&id=475

Hsüan Tsang and Vasubandhu:

http://www.bdkamerica.org/system/files/pdf/dBET_Alpha_ThreeTextsonConsciousnessOnly_1999.pdf?file=1&type=node&id=456

These are the roots.

Queequeg said:
Tip o'the hat, M.

Malcolm wrote:
The latter text is the basic text of the Hosso (Fa Hsiang) school. Enjoy reading it. I did.

If you want to understand the Indian antecendents, there are a number of basic Yogacāra texts in translation these days.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 3:48 AM
Title: Re: Mohe Zhiguan Study Thread 摩訶止觀 Part 1
Content:



Queequeg said:
Do you have any recommendations for a Hosso primer? I'm working my way through Living Yogacara by Tagawa Shun'ei. Pretty accessible read, but not sure how its received generally. Any comments?

Malcolm wrote:
Read Asanga:

http://www.bdkamerica.org/system/files/pdf/dBET_Beta_T1593_SummaryoftheGreatVehicle_2003.pdf?file=1&type=node&id=475

Hsüan Tsang and Vasubandhu:

http://www.bdkamerica.org/system/files/pdf/dBET_Alpha_ThreeTextsonConsciousnessOnly_1999.pdf?file=1&type=node&id=456

These are the roots.

Queequeg said:
Tip o'the hat, M.

Malcolm wrote:
The latter text is the basic text of the Hosso (Fa Hsiang) school. Enjoy reading it. I did.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 2:12 AM
Title: Re: Mohe Zhiguan Study Thread 摩訶止觀 Part 1
Content:
jikai said:
Hosso

Queequeg said:
Do you have any recommendations for a Hosso primer? I'm working my way through Living Yogacara by Tagawa Shun'ei. Pretty accessible read, but not sure how its received generally. Any comments?

Malcolm wrote:
Read Asanga:

http://www.bdkamerica.org/system/files/pdf/dBET_Beta_T1593_SummaryoftheGreatVehicle_2003.pdf?file=1&type=node&id=475

Hsüan Tsang and Vasubandhu:

http://www.bdkamerica.org/system/files/pdf/dBET_Alpha_ThreeTextsonConsciousnessOnly_1999.pdf?file=1&type=node&id=456

These are the roots.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 2:02 AM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Alak Zenkar...

Malcolm wrote:
Is an amazing person. I had the opportunity to meet him briefly at the translation conference, and all I could really say was "Thank you for your dictionary."



dzogchungpa said:
Nice. DJKR seems to think very highly of him.

Malcolm wrote:
Everyone does. He is one of the most important lama alive today.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 1:02 AM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Alak Zenkar...

Malcolm wrote:
Is an amazing person. I had the opportunity to meet him briefly at the translation conference, and all I could really say was "Thank you for your dictionary."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, March 16th, 2018 at 1:01 AM
Title: Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang
Content:
Sennin said:
Hi Malcolm,

I have to ask, is there a reason why the future volumes are in this order; is it according to how they are cataloged or particular topics?

Malcolm wrote:
I am working on the remaining one's with commentaries first.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2018 at 11:51 PM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:


Sherab said:
Therefore in avoiding the extremes, we need to avoid only the two extremes of <E> and <N>, and then proceed to examine or analyse the region Not<E or N>.

Malcolm wrote:
Not <E or N> is also rejected as it is the fourth extreme.

You are confusing the Madhyamaka analysis of causal series, neither the same nor different, with the four extreme. This is the basis of most of your errors.

The reasoning why "not existent and not nonexistent" is rejected is because there are some who proposed that existents, while arising, have a phase where they are not existent and not nonexistent.

Madhyamaka arguments are not formal proofs in logic. They are rebuttals of other's positions.

Take the opening statement of MMK:

At no time, no where,
does any thing arise from (1) itself,
(2) from other than itself,
(3) from both, or (4) without a cause.

The first extreme is existence, arising from self; the second extreme is nonexistence, arising from other; the third extreme is both, arising from self and other; the final extreme is without cause, neither existence nor nonexistence.

All four extremes must be refuted. There is no short cut around this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2018 at 11:32 PM
Title: Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang
Content:
Arnoud said:
Thank you very much Malcolm. Truly extraordinary. How long did it take you to translate the whole text? Must have been a few days.

BTW, if anyone has lack of funds but has the requirements to read this text, please let me know. I will pay for three sets and shipping for those who can't afford it. It would be best if that was in the US as shipping overseas gets very expensive but let me know and I can see what I can do.

Malcolm wrote:
The initial draft of the Rangdrol took about three months, finished in Dec 2011, and subsequently, five drafts.

The initial draft of the Rangshar took about 6-7 months, that was completed in October 2012. It subsequently went through six drafts.

Then, after a hiatus where we worked on Buddhahood (originally translated over three months in the fall of 2012) to tighten up our lexicon, we returned to editing the Rangshar and Rangdrol which we envisioned publishing together.

After Wisdom agreed to publish this work, frankly due to the success of Buddhahood, I spent six months researching and writing essays to support the text, only 25 percent of which actually made it into these two volumes. In addition, the work altogether went through five rounds of editing with one of Wisdom's senior editors, Laura Cunningham. Wisdom had an expert in Sanskrit, Rory Lindsey, review all of the Sanskrit terms in the text for proper diacritics and accuracy, and it was proofread by Emily Bower, who used to be an editor at Shambhala but now works freelance. Right now it is being indexed, and all final changes will be implemented in April. So, from start to finish, this project will have taken eight years. Amazing. When I began to translate these two texts, I had no idea it would wind up this way.

We commissioned Tashi Mannox to do calligraphy for the two volumes. We also commissioned an original line image for Bhagavan Pawo Zhonnu Tobden, the teacher of both tantras, drawn according to how he is depicted in the Vima Nyinthig's Great Chronicle by a thangka painter, Urgyen Gyalpo, who lives and works in Toronto.  The cover design was done by Gopa Campbell. The interior book design also is based on Gopa Campbell's original interior design for Buddhahood, but was executed by Wisdom's inhouse designer, Lyndsay D'Andrea.

Tulku Dakpa RInpoche and Jean Luc Achard (a leading western authority on Dzogchen) kindly wrote forwards for the book. In addition, Sangye Khandro has expressed amazing kindness in giving her support to our efforts, and there are a couple of other translators who have kindly agreed to lend their support, but until they actually send us their blurbs, they should remain anonymous for now. Credit is also due to the original sponsors of the Rangdrol.

It is really amazing how many hands touched this book to bring it to completion. It has my name on it, but in reality it was a huge team effort. We owe a great debt to Daniel Aitken for his vision in seeing the possibility of bringing our work to the reading public.

At present Team Zangthal is working on volumes three, four, and five of the series. Volume three has been submitted, the Without Syllables and its commentary. We are editing drafts of volume four, the Blazing Lamp and its commentary, and I have begun work on volume five, the Six Dimensions and its commentary. (And all of this does not count all the other translation work I have been involved with over the past 7 years.)

Arnoud, your offer is very generous, thank you.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2018 at 6:04 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
You've read chapter 19 of the MMK? This might put a dent in your supposition that time is "real."

Coëmgenu said:
I think there's a disconnect in usages of "real" here.

Time is conventional and/or saṃsāric is what is meant by "real" in Snowbear's usage I think.

Snowbear said:
Right. Reading that chapter isn't going to make my experience any different.

Malcolm wrote:
No, but realizing that chapter might poke a hole in your experience.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2018 at 5:31 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Snowbear said:
Time is real...

Malcolm wrote:
You've read chapter 19 of the MMK? This might put a dent in your supposition that time is "real."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2018 at 4:54 AM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:



heart said:
Paris and London where the best I think.

/magnus

Tiago Simões said:
The most fascinating thing is understanding that the things DJKR is saying in those videos is almost the same Malcolm as been saying here all along.

heart said:
Yes, there are similarities I agree.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
It is not surprising, we both were educated in Sakya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2018 at 3:22 AM
Title: Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
"Ācārya Malcolm Smith has certainly given the world a rare gift by presenting to English-reading Dzogchen practitioners in the worldwide Buddhist community this skilled translation of Volume One of the Seventeen Tantras, the Self-Arisen Vidyā Tantra, and Volume Two, its accompanying commentarial tantra, the Self-Liberated Vidyā Tantra. The exceptional features of each of the seventeen tantras of Ati Yoga’s quintessential secret cycle of the upadeśa class are described with metaphors. The Self-Arisen Vidyā Tantra is described with the metaphor of the ocean. The eighty-six chapters of this oceanic treatise detail the pinnacle view, meditation, conduct, and result of all paths of Buddhadharma presented in this world. As the destined Dharma of this time, this translation is extremely timely. I wish to express deep gratitude to Malcolm and the wonderful Zangthal team for their noble aspiration and qualified capacity to finally bring these most precious teachings that exist in our world into the English language."

Sangye Khandro
Light of Berotsana Translation Group
Translator and Teacher


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2018 at 2:25 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Queequeg said:
LOL. I'm asking the questions, and I'm being advised not to hurt myself thinking too much, accused of iconoclasm. I've never claimed anything more than my own fumbling path. Others, on the other hand...

Malcolm wrote:
No, I am merely pointing out that this statement, "Or they just concluded they will never get it, gave up asking questions, and just parrot what they hear, passing that off as knowledge" is as applicable to you as it is to anyone else.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2018 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:


Queequeg said:
Oh, we can't look at the big picture? Which myopia should we limit ourselves to?

Malcolm wrote:
Is your picture the only "big picture?"


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2018 at 2:07 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Queequeg said:
In the second watch of the night the Buddha awakened, he attained the second knowledge, which is most relevant here:
"When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, I directed it to the knowledge of the passing away & reappearance of beings. I saw — by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human — beings passing away & re-appearing, and I discerned how they are inferior & superior, beautiful & ugly, fortunate & unfortunate in accordance with their kamma: 'These beings — who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech & mind, who reviled noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, in hell. But these beings — who were endowed with good conduct of body, speech, & mind, who did not revile noble ones, who held right views and undertook actions under the influence of right views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the good destinations, in the heavenly world.' Thus — by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human — I saw beings passing away & re-appearing, and I discerned how they are inferior & superior, beautiful & ugly, fortunate & unfortunate in accordance with their kamma.
MN4 Bhaya-bherava Sutta

This knowledge does not extend to the ability to see the future. Its limited to an insight into the nature of beings and how they fare on the path depending on circumstances.

Malcolm wrote:
This is also a Pali Canon sutta. In general, this class of sūtras does not really address Buddha's omniscience.


Queequeg said:
Arguably, the revelation of the Lotus Sutra fell somewhere between these two teachings, with the Buddha of the Lotus Sutra being closer to the Buddha of the Tripitaka than the Vaipulya Sutra.

Malcolm wrote:
This is called a top-down interpretation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2018 at 1:41 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
First, you have to understand time is merely a convention, and buddhas are not limited by conventions.


dzogchungpa said:
Aren't buddhas also merely conventions?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, of course.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, March 15th, 2018 at 1:22 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:


Jeff H said:
If an enlightened being knows exactly how all those momentary choices will play out across all time, it must mean that all the choices I make, and every action a buddha offers me in aid of clearing my obscured mind, have already been determined. There is, in fact, no option but to follow that predetermined path; therefore, infinite potentiality cannot be true.

Malcolm wrote:
It's not like that. Your mind is confined by signs. A Buddha's mind is not. Therefore, you frame the question in terms of limitations.

Jeff H said:
Well, it's things like this that keep me coming to DW. I get that there is something I'm not getting and I've heard some clues in this thread. I'll try to keep my mind open to catch the ray of light when it eventually dawns.

Malcolm wrote:
It is fairly straight forward. A samyaksambuddha has three kinds of omniscience: straight up omniscience (sarvajñātā), omniscience of all aspects (sarvākārajñātā), and knowledge of paths (margajñātā).

Jeff H said:
Unfortunately, this is not that ray of light. This does not sound straightforward to me at all.

One thing I hear now is that I used the concept of "playing out across all time", which I understand is a delusion not shared with buddhas.

Malcolm wrote:
First, you have to understand time is merely a convention, and buddhas are not limited by conventions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 11:49 PM
Title: Re: Response to Bernie
Content:
narraboth said:
I was in his London discussion with Rigpa, and basically all the discussion about samaya was again within the already published articles. (Not saying it was not necessary or benefitial to meet Rigpa sangha face to face)
I have a feeling that DJKR really wants to help Rigpa, this probably biggest Nyingma organisation in the West, move out if not survive from all these, and I admire that very much, considering he already has lots of his 'own' organisations to take care of. The fact he met Rigpa sangha again and again, taking serious questions, posting lengthy reponses, show that he probably care about this 'SR's centre' more than any other lama who made comments.

heart said:
I think he really cares about Vajrayana in the West, rather than Rigpa, he also have a bunch of students here. There been a very black feeling spreading over social media giving many, me included, a feeling Vajrayana is really threatened as a backlash of the SR scandal. I think people are not giving DJKR credit for the enormous courage it takes to actually stand up for Vajrayana in a time like this. I also think DJKR shouldn't answer for what SR have done, I think SR should do that himself. DJKR can hardly be expected to "fix" Rigpa.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrayāna is supposed to be secret. All of this is a result of popularizing it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 11:47 PM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Jeff H said:
Hmm. I'm not getting it.

Snowbear said:
No one can. Anyone who claims to get it is selling you a bridge in Brooklyn.

Malcolm wrote:
It is fairly straight forward. A samyaksambuddha has three kinds of omniscience: straight up omniscience (sarvajñātā), omniscience of all aspects (sarvākārajñātā), and knowledge of paths (margajñātā).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 10:58 PM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:


Jeff H said:
If an enlightened being knows exactly how all those momentary choices will play out across all time, it must mean that all the choices I make, and every action a buddha offers me in aid of clearing my obscured mind, have already been determined. There is, in fact, no option but to follow that predetermined path; therefore, infinite potentiality cannot be true.

Malcolm wrote:
It's not like that. Your mind is confined by signs. A Buddha's mind is not. Therefore, you frame the question in terms of limitations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 10:27 PM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Jeff H said:
It doesn’t seem like anyone has directly answered QQ’s point about determinism. If there can be perfect knowledge of the present mental states of all beings (not questioned) AND perfect knowledge of which options they will choose into the future, out of all possible options, how can that not be determinism?

Granted the authoritative sources say Buddha is omniscient, but how can we understand “omniscience” without negating the infinite potentiality of emptiness, since all the realized potentials can be known in advance?

Malcolm wrote:
Since the Buddha's omniscience transcends time, objects, etc., his omniscience of the future does not indicate determinism, his omniscience can handle all possibilities for all phenomena simultaneously.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 7:08 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:


Queequeg said:
Chinese doesn't have question marks. It can however, record a question.

Malcolm wrote:
But that passage is not a record of a question. People who see it that way are not understanding it correctly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 7:02 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:


Sherab said:
While still on this topic of logic, another place where we disagree is this: whether there is two extremes or four extremes.  I hold that when the two extremes of eternalism and nihilism are properly defined, there is no need for two of the extremes in the four extremes: the extreme of <eternalism AND nihilism> would be incoherent; the extreme of NOT <eternalism OR nihilism> would be indeterminate, which is say that anything that belongs to this set cannot be ascertained.


Malcolm wrote:
There are four extremes because there are opponents who adhere to each of the four extremes, such as yourself, who adhere to the fourth extreme, neither existent nor nonexistent, as your post above shows. And because these four extremes are clearly negated in many places in sūtra, tantra, and commentaries.

BTW, I did not negate the ultimate, I stated that ultimate truth must be a conventional truth because otherwise, it would not be effective (ārthakriya).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 5:38 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:



Queequeg said:
Wonderful that you are omniscient!

May be relevant:
https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/pdf/5-personen/analayo/buddha-omniscience.pdf

That Medicinal Herbs chapter is not at variance. There is nothing there about seeing the future. The Buddha has penetrating knowledge, but it falls short of omniscience.

Malcolm wrote:
That's not the case. The Buddha is omniscient concerning the three times.


Queequeg said:
The buddha can look at a being and perceive what is appropriate for them and lead them along to liberation, but as the beings' conditions change, so do their needs, and the Buddha responds accordingly. That's wholly consistent with the Buddha's rain.

Past is nothing but present recollection of things experienced in the past; the future is nothing but speculation. The Buddha's knowledge can't go beyond what is real.



Malcolm wrote:
The passage clearly states the Buddha knows this world and the next. Further, from the Lotus, chapter 5, directly addresses the Buddha's knowledge of the three times, stating:

The every way of teaching this
is a method of the buddhas,
but without omniscience, 
nirvana cannot be undertaken. 

In order to tame sentient beings,
with unlimited knowledge of the three times, 
the supreme rishi has spoken of
the virtues of the six perfections,
emptiness, the absence of signs,
freedom from aspirations,
bodhicitta, and otherwise, 
the dharmas which lead to nirvana, 
the four Brahamaviharas, 
and whatever is spoken in order to convert.

In Kern, these passages are 5:74-77, but his translation is deficient in a number of places, for example, he did not understand that paramarṣi is a reference to the Buddha.

Queequeg said:
That's why the Buddha can't necessarily know all the ways his children's foolishness will play out. The Buddha has a long memory, and so maybe he can anticipate, but that's not the same as knowing the future.

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha omniscience is not limited with respect to time.

Queequeg said:
If you go further than this, 1. its speculation. If a text tells you this is the case and you choose to believe it, well, there's that. 2. This would imply complete determination, and we are nothing but billiard balls bouncing around the table according to Newtonian physics.

Malcolm wrote:
Your text tells us that the Buddha's knowledge (jñāna) about the three times is beyond limits (ananta).

Moreover, chapter six begins with Buddha's prediction of Kashyapa, his name, when he will be a buddha and so on.

Queequeg said:
The whole first half of the Lotus Sutra (which I must point out, contrary to your characterization, is not mine) is a series of predictions for the arhats.

This does present a serious question about the Buddha's ability to predict the future, and is something that I've considered. I have no idea what to make of it, as I don't know what to make of most of this.

But, I say this - such predictions are problematic because on their own logic, this would mean all time is static, and we only float along the surface observing, like watching a movie. One can readily see the problem with that sort of fatalism.

Malcolm wrote:
I amended by post above, but will reproduce that here, "Since his omniscience transcends time, objects, etc., his omniscience of the future does not indicate determinism, his omniscience can handle all possibilities for all phenomena simultaneously."

Queequeg said:
The only way that the predictions to the arhats make sense is if they are therapeutic in nature, correcting the theirmistaken view that arhatship is the real end, and that the real end the Buddha teaches is something else. And this would be consistent with the explanation of upaya in the sutra, and consistent with what I observe of reality, which is that it is dynamic and not determined.

Malcolm wrote:
Or, that the Buddha's omniscience transcends the three times, etc., and is unimpeded.

Queequeg said:
Knowledge of the three times, even unbounded knowledge, implicitly means that it only extends to what is knowable. Is the future known to the Buddha in all its detail? There's something of the Wizard of Oz quality to such a view.

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha has two kinds of omniscience: omniscience concerning all aspects, and omniscience concerning all that is. Your theory confines the Buddha' knowledge to signs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 4:49 AM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
Astus said:
once you have joined Vajrayāna teachings, you won't really be a Tendai, etc., practitioner anymore.
Why would that be?

Malcolm wrote:
There would be no point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 4:34 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Admin_PC said:
Ch 5 was the thing that immediately came to mind reading this discussion.
The related bits even start on p95 of the BDK version:

Malcolm wrote:
QQ will counter that the doctrine that this chapter is from the provisional section, whereas his citation comes from the definitive section — imagine that, the Buddha's omniscience is provisional, and his supposed ignorance, definitive!

Queequeg said:
Wonderful that you are omniscient!

May be relevant:
https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/pdf/5-personen/analayo/buddha-omniscience.pdf

That Medicinal Herbs chapter is not at variance. There is nothing there about seeing the future. The Buddha has penetrating knowledge, but it falls short of omniscience.

Malcolm wrote:
That's not the case. The Buddha is omniscient concerning the three times.


Queequeg said:
The buddha can look at a being and perceive what is appropriate for them and lead them along to liberation, but as the beings' conditions change, so do their needs, and the Buddha responds accordingly. That's wholly consistent with the Buddha's rain.

Past is nothing but present recollection of things experienced in the past; the future is nothing but speculation. The Buddha's knowledge can't go beyond what is real.



Malcolm wrote:
The passage clearly states the Buddha knows this world and the next. Further, from the Lotus, chapter 5, directly addresses the Buddha's knowledge of the three times, stating:

Every way of teaching this
is a method of the buddhas,
but without omniscience, 
nirvana cannot be undertaken. 

In order to tame sentient beings,
with unlimited knowledge of the three times, 
the supreme rishi has spoken of
the virtues of the six perfections,
emptiness, the absence of signs,
freedom from aspirations,
bodhicitta, and otherwise, 
the dharmas which lead to nirvana, 
the four Brahamaviharas, 
and whatever is spoken in order to convert.

In Kern, these passages are 5:74-77, but his translation is deficient in a number of places, for example, he did not understand that paramarṣi is a reference to the Buddha.

Queequeg said:
That's why the Buddha can't necessarily know all the ways his children's foolishness will play out. The Buddha has a long memory, and so maybe he can anticipate, but that's not the same as knowing the future.

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha omniscience is not limited with respect to time.

Queequeg said:
If you go further than this, 1. its speculation. If a text tells you this is the case and you choose to believe it, well, there's that. 2. This would imply complete determination, and we are nothing but billiard balls bouncing around the table according to Newtonian physics.

Malcolm wrote:
Your text tells us that the Buddha's knowledge (jñāna) about the three times is beyond limits (ananta).

Moreover, chapter six begins with Buddha's prediction of Kashyapa, his name, when he will be a buddha and so on. Since his omniscience transcends time, objects, etc., his omniscience of the future does not indicate determinism, his omniscience can handle all possibilities for all phenomena simultaneously.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 2:45 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Admin_PC said:
Ch 5 was the thing that immediately came to mind reading this discussion.
The related bits even start on p95 of the BDK version: “O Kāśyapa! You should know that the Tathāgata is the king of all the
teaching. What he teaches is never false. He explains all the teaching using
his wisdom and skillful means and what he teaches leads everyone to the
stage of omniscience.

“The Tathāgata perceives the goal of all teachings and knows the underlying
mental disposition of all sentient beings, perceiving all with no obstructions.
He completely understands all teachings and displays omniscience to
all sentient beings.

Malcolm wrote:
QQ will counter that the doctrine that this chapter is from the provisional section, whereas his citation comes from the definitive section — imagine that, the Buddha's omniscience is provisional, and his supposed ignorance, definitive!


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 2:33 AM
Title: Re: Your Spiritual Youth
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
We can set this down as your personal opinion, but it is not what the Buddha taught about his own omniscience of the three times. The Buddha knows the capacities of all sentient beings, what is suited for them, and when. This is in fact what the passage you cited states in Sanskrit. In short, there is nothing the Buddha does not know about the path, and what to teach to whom.

Queequeg said:
And this is your opinion.

Malcolm wrote:
Not just my opinion. It is also explained quite well in your preferred sūtra in chapter 5. In chapter 5 the Buddha states:

I fully know the present world and the other world just as it truly is with correct discerning wisdom. (I am) omniscient and all seeing. Devas and humans come before me in order to hear the Dharma! I show the path, expound the path, know the path, and am the one skilled in the path.

The corresponding passage in the BDK version is at the top of the page 96.

This chapter leaves no room for your assumption that the Buddha does not know everything about the path, nor what practices are suited for every sentient being.

Queequeg said:
So how about providing a Malcolm endorsed translation?

Malcolm wrote:
Translating sūtras is the job of the 84,000 project. They do it quite well and eventually someone will do a version of the Lotus from Sanskrit with reference to the Tibetan and Chinese recensions there.

Queequeg said:
How do you square such an assertion with the illustrative parables in the text? It would have been quite easy to present the father as all knowing in those parables, but he is not.

Malcolm wrote:
The simile of the rain cloud that covers the billion world universe in chapter 5 is used to indicate the Buddha's omniscience.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Tsongkhapa was really the last Tibetan to initiate the founding of a new lineage of teachings.

Astus said:
How does that compare to the revealed teachings in Nyingma, like the Longchen Nyingthig and the Lamrim Yeshe Nyingpo?

Malcolm wrote:
With respect to terma, both systems are based on Kama, as are all valid treasure revelations. With respect to Tsongkhapa, he did not actually invent some new set of teachings, he organized lineages he had received into a system of teachings, with a special emphasis on the father tantras. Some of his students got into polemical quibbles over matters of interpretation, but if you go to a Gelug initiation and then a Sakya initiation, and then a Kagyu initiation, you won't notice much difference, because the procedures governing how empowerments are bestowed were set down in India, and have not been altered by Tibetans extensively. Potential novelties introduced by Tibetans are addressed in such polemical works as Sapan's Three Vows, and the responses to it that it continues to earn to the present day. You should read it in order to understand the issues we are addressing.

Astus said:
The original question involved mixing different levels of teachings.
It was along the lines of "we don't need to limit ourselves to one tradition, and we can take the best parts of many traditions as it helps us in our practice and daily life".

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this means mixing levels of teachings. There is no such thing as the "best parts of many traditions" because all Buddhadharma is perfect in the beginning, middle, and end.

Astus said:
Lineage is the most important thing in Vajrayāna because the practice in general involves initiation into various mandalas, and the procedure must be like impressing a seal in wax.
Although this I haven't really heard about actually happening - except perhaps by Yogi Chen - if the method and transmission is left intact, any Vajrayana practice could be incorporated into another system, like in Tendai, could it not? Tantric rituals are still present in Chinese Buddhism, just as they were there in Zen in Japan before the 18th century reformations.

Malcolm wrote:
Tendai practitioners can practice Vajrayāna providing they follow Vajrayāna rules. The same goes for any Buddhist of any tradition. If they want to practice Vajrayāna, they must do so in a precise way, placing the guru as the head of all refuges, and guarding their samaya carefully. But once you have joined Vajrayāna teachings, you won't really be a Tendai, etc., practitioner anymore.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, March 14th, 2018 at 12:42 AM
Title: Re: Your Spiritual Youth
Content:


Queequeg said:
His perfection is in his ability to respond to challenges, not that he knows what to do before the challenge arises.

Malcolm wrote:
We can set this down as your personal opinion, but it is not what the Buddha taught about his own omniscience of the three times. The Buddha knows the capacities of all sentient beings, what is suited for them, and when. This is in fact what the passage you cited states in Sanskrit. In short, there is nothing the Buddha does not know about the path, and what to teach to whom.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This is how we roll in Vajrayāna. If you mix systems, it is considered very bad.

Astus said:
What was the point in history when systems became frozen and no new lineages emerged?

Malcolm wrote:
With the ascendence of the Geluk school. Tsongkhapa was really the last Tibetan to initiate the founding of a new lineage of teachings.


Astus said:
That is very bad, not allowed, and the Dharmapālas of both systems will become unhappy and punish the offender.
That being so, it seems to be more of a Vajrayana issue, as nobody else is concerned with keeping the teachings and methods separate, even if there were periods when "purity of the tradition" was deemed important.

Malcolm wrote:
The original question involved mixing different levels of teachings. Lineage is the most important thing in Vajrayāna because the practice in general involves initiation into various mandalas, and the procedure must be like impressing a seal in wax. So in Sakya, the Hevajra empowerment has been given exactly the same way for over 900 years. Minor differences between lineages in the same general school can emerge, however, but they are minor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 8:20 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Questions and answers, 
honesty, lies;
yes, no you can't, 
but you can, and you know why.

Sham '69


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 7:23 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:


Sherab said:
When there is a problem in logic, it is either due to invalid logical structure or invalid premises.  To resolve a problematic conclusion from a valid logical argument, you have to examine the structure and/or the premises.  You have done neither.

Malcolm wrote:
You have not shown any logical incoherence in my position. You have merely stated it to be so.

Sherab said:
Anymore more such assertions and I would begin to think that you are trolling me:
What was the logical argument that I made? You said "even ultimate truth is merely a conventional truth" Call this statement 1. You also said, "An ultimate truth is the veridical perception of a given entity, a relative truth is the non-veridical perception of a given entity. " Call this statement 2.

Statement 1 can be represented as U -> C, where U = ultimate truth and C = conventional truth
Statement 2 can be represented as U = V, R = not V, where V = veridical perception of a given entity.
Substituting 2 into 1 gives V -> not V, which is incoherent.

Anyone with an understanding of logic will tell you that the argument above is logically correct. Whether the argument is valid or not depends then on whether the premises, statements 1 & 2, are true. If we take your premises as true, than the argument is true and you have an incoherent conclusion. So one of your premises must be false. I would suggest that Statement 1 is false, namely that the ultimate truth is merely a conventional truth. I have already stated before that I thought that saying the ultimate truth is merely a conventional truth is to over negate. It is my view that the incoherence from over-negation implies the undermining of the possibility of knowing what reality is, a consequence that I tried to argue in an earlier post. In other words, when you negate the ultimate to such an extent that it reduces the ultimate to the convention, and since the convention excludes veridical perception, that veridical perception that is necessary for knowing the ultimate is excluded as well.

Refute the above argument if you can. If not, do not make wild allegations of misrepresentation of your position as it only serves to diminish your status.
From https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=27893&start=100#p437956

Malcolm wrote:
I answered this in many ways, but the most expressive is that there simply is no reality beneath things. There is nothing to find. Not even something free from two extremes. Therefore, ultimate truth, emptiness, is a conventional truth, because it is effective at bringing about liberation.

Your attempt to reduce it to a formal proposition via western logic is a fools errand. Richardson already attempted this, and when he reduced Madhyamaka to statements in formal logic, he found they were incoherent. But he also missed the point of Madhyamaka, and the two truths.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 7:19 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:


Sherab said:
If you have understood my position in the thread, you will notice that it starts with the avoidance of the two extremes of existence (eternalism) and non-existence (nihilism).

Malcolm wrote:
Advaitans make precisely the same claim about brahmin as you make about your ultimate.

Sherab said:
You have not made the effort to understand what I wrote... correction, you chose to ignore my arguments and prefer to continue to make allegations based on your strawman picture of my position.

Malcolm wrote:
I understand what you wrote, as above, I think you are suffering from lack of understanding the what the two truths actually are, which causes you to adopt a transcendentalist/realist position with respect to the two truths. For you, the ultimate is something free from the two extremes. For me, ultimate truth is merely the perception of the absence of inherent existence/four extremes in entities which arise from conditions. Among the emptinesses Candra lists, for example, is the emptiness of the ultimate:

Because it is the supreme necessity, 
the ultimate is nirvana, 
Whatever is the emptiness of that
is the emptiness of the ultimate.

The knower of the ultimate
taught the emptiness of the ultimate 
in order to avert the grasping 
of the thought that nirvana is real.

And:

Whatever is not an extreme
is described as transcending extremes;
since that is empty of itself, 
it is conventionally the emptiness of the transcended extremes.


Now, the question for you is, is ultimate empty? Of what is it empty? If the ultimate is also empty, how can be it any thing other than a conventional truth?

And since you are fond of citing the two extremes, if freedom from extremes is empty, how can it be anything other than a conventional truth?

Since everything from matter to omniscience is empty, how can they be anything other than conventional truths? A true ultimate truth would not be empty, now would it?

Nāgārjuna said:

If there is something subtle tha is not empty, there is something subtle to be empty;
but as there is nothing that is not empty, where is there something to be empty?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 6:57 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:


Sherab said:
When there is a problem in logic, it is either due to invalid logical structure or invalid premises.  To resolve a problematic conclusion from a valid logical argument, you have to examine the structure and/or the premises.  You have done neither.

Malcolm wrote:
You have not shown any logical incoherence in my position. You have merely stated it to be so.

When one does not understand the basic definitions of the system one is examining, it is difficult, as your arguments show, to build a logically coherent structure. This is why I have tried to remedy your lack of understanding of the basics of the two truths.

You think the ultimate is something independent which can be uncovered. It isn't. The only thing that is an ultimate truth in Buddhadharma is emptiness, and that ultimate truth is also merely a conventional truth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: Your Spiritual Youth
Content:


Queequeg said:
This whole thing came up because there was a claim that there are no unanswered questions in Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
For a Buddha, there are no unanswered questions. The Buddha is omniscient concerning all paths. This is what it means to be on the path of "no more training," aśaikṣamarga.

Buddhists may have many questions, but then, they are not Buddhas.

Exhaustive citations can be provided.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
one cannot randomly use one completion method given in one system with that of another system

Astus said:
But one can use them systematically, like what is itself a combination of different methods from all three systems: the six dharmas of Naropa.

Malcolm wrote:
Suppose you are a Lamdre practitioner, this does not automatically allow you practice the six dharmas of Naropa (Naro chos drug). There is a specific transmission for this which you must receive from a lineage holder, and which is normally practiced on the basis of the creation stage of Vajravārāhī. True, the various of the six dharmas are derived from different tantras, but if you don't have that specific transmission, you cannot practice it.

Further, even if you have received the six Dharmas of Naropa and Lamdre, you cannot mix the two. I.e. you would not apply the Six Dharmas to Lamdre, nor would you apply Lamdre to the Six Dharmas. The basis of these distinctions is lineage of transmission.

Further, you would not apply the practice of Atiyoga to Sarma traditions. In the Tibetan tradition, we maintain very strict boundaries around transmissions, and mixing tranmissions is considered be a personal fabrication. When you are practicing Lamdre, you practice Lamdre, when you are practicing Naro Chödruk, you practice Narochödruk. You don't mix. For example, in Sakya, there is Naropa's Khechari, but it is considered extremely bad form to mix Naro Chodruk with Naro Khachö, the completion stage for the latter is entirely dissimilar from the former, and has its own special transmissions and requirements.


Astus said:
And if one has learnt different techniques from different teachers, it is quite normal to practise them, from which comes a person who can then teach such previously diverse techniques as a single set.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is mixing lineages. If you want to teach Naro Chodruk, then you do so based on the constraints of that transmission. For example, even if you have received Hevajra in a Kagyu tradition, this does not grant you permission to practice Hevajra in Sakya — the visualizations are different, the sadhanas are arranged differently, the oral instructions are different, and so on.

Astus said:
Isn't that rather the usual situation, while knowing only one technique and having a single teacher is fairly rare?

Malcolm wrote:
The usual situation is that when a teacher, holding multiple lineages of the same deity, for example, Hevajra, gives an empowerment of Hevajra, they do it according to one specific tradition, and do not mix other traditions in that transmission.

For example, let us say you are a Karma Kagyu who practices Shangpa as well. The six dharmas of Niguma are basically identical to the Naro Chodruk, however, in the Shangpa system, each yoga has a separate empowerment, and cannot be practiced with that empowerment, according to the dictates of the lineage. Naro Chodruk however, has a transmission, but does not have separate empowerments for each of the six, Hence, when teaching Shangpa, a Karma Kagyu teacher will respect the Shangpa tradition very precisely, and follow that system. When teaching Karma Kagyu Naro Chodruk, they will do it according to that school.

This is how we roll in Vajrayāna. If you mix systems, it is considered very bad. The point is to understand how each system agrees with the others in terms of meaning, but practice just that system without mixing other elements into it from other lineages. Even when you have broad heterogeneous systems like Lamdre, which assembles its practice out of nine separate upadesha transmissions, one does not just add the Naro Chodruk system to make a tenth. That is very bad, not allowed, and the Dharmapālas of both systems will become unhappy and punish the offender.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 3:29 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Queequeg said:
So much nicer than speculating and impugning.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't think I was speculating.

For various problems with the Kern translation see:

http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/content/pdf/aririab/Vol.%202%20%281999%29%20%5Brev.4Aug2010%5D.pdf from page 125 or so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 2:40 AM
Title: Re: Your Spiritual Youth
Content:
Queequeg said:
何 this is the character that makes it a question.

Malcolm wrote:
That is the term katha rendered into Chinese.

In Sanskrit, katha (Tibetan ཅི་ནས་) is not functioning as a question at all in this case.

cariṃ cariṃ jāniya nityakālaṃ

Always knowing (jāniya nityakālaṃ) practices (cariṃ cariṃ)

vadāmi sattvāna tathā tathāham

This literally means, "I (ahaṃ) teach (vadāmi) those sentient beings (sattvāna tathā) in that way (tathā)," etc., it is not a question to himself in the Sanskrit, the whole passage is declarative statement about what he teaches sentient beings, knowing all practices, and who should practice them, in order they they are placed in awakening, and obtain buddhadharmas.

As for translators following precedents, they do it all the time. At the translators conference, I ever heard Thubten Jinpa opine we should follow older, incorrect translation equivalents merely because they are in use and have become standard.

As before, I made allowance for commentarial drift in Chinese from the Sanskrit for this passage. But even so, when you are citing some passage, you have to make sure that it is acceptable to both parties, otherwise it is a failure right from the start.

I am afraid that without an agreed upon canonical reference, it is very hard to use citations to make one's arguments.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 2:15 AM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
OK, guys, no need to get worked up about one of my stupid jokes. I will point out that  you can find a traditional reflection on the disgusting nature of the body in Khenpo Ngakchung's Zindri for example. Just for the record, I think the body is fantastic!

Malcolm wrote:
You mean the Longchen Nyinthig Ngondro commentary?


dzogchungpa said:
Yes, isn't that what it's called?

Malcolm wrote:
He has many Zintris


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 2:09 AM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
OK, guys, no need to get worked up about one of my stupid jokes. I will point out that  you can find a traditional reflection on the disgusting nature of the body in Khenpo Ngakchung's Zindri for example. Just for the record, I think the body is fantastic!

Malcolm wrote:
You mean the Longchen Nyinthig Ngondro commentary?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 1:40 AM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Personally, I would start with observing the disgusting nature of the body, then do the Tara sadhana and finish with the Mu thing. Much less indigestion that way.

conebeckham said:
Either way, there is a contradiction in view.    Vajrayana practitioners are not contemplating the disgusting nature of the body.  If you're a Vajrayana practitioner and you're disgusted by the nature of the body, there's a pretty good chance you're "doing it wrong."


dzogchungpa said:
Well, I wasn't being entirely serious, but regular contemplation of the suffering of 'ordinary' things is recommended to many contemporary Vajrayana practitioners, e.g. as found in the four thoughts, is it not?

Malcolm wrote:
It is the regarding of the body as impure that is a problem from a HYT POV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 1:26 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Queequeg said:
The Chinese renders the final passage of the Life Span chapter as a question.

Malcolm wrote:
Prove it. Take the time to parse the passage for us so we can see that it is so.

Even so, Greg is not going to take the English rendering of the passage in question as authoritative, because the passage in question in the Tibetan translation as well as the Sanskrit do not present the Buddha asking himself a question.

When one is citing passages in a multi-tradition environment, one has to be sensitive to the fact that the reading one thinks is correct may not be considered correct by another tradition. And if there is some basis for contention, one should not be surprised nor should one impugn the motives of the person pointing out the discrepancy.

Here is the Sanskrit:

cariṃ cariṃ jāniya nityakālaṃ

vadāmi sattvāna tathā tathāham|

kathaṃ nu bodhāvupanāmayeyaṃ

katha buddhadharmāṇa bhaveyu lābhinaḥ||23||

Tibetan:

།སྤྱོད་དང་སྤྱོད་པ་རིག་ནས་རྟག་པར་ཡང༌། །ཅི་ནས་བྱང་ཆུབ་ལ་ནི་དགོད་པ་དང༌།
།ཅི་ནས་སངས་རྒྱས་ཆོས་རྣམས་ཐོབ་བྱའི་ཕྱིར། །སེམས་ཅན་རྣམས་ལ་ང་ནི་དེ་བཞིན་སྨྲ།


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 1:22 AM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:



Astus said:
Neither Vajrayana nor Rinzai Zen means a specific method but they include various teachings and techniques, don't they?

Malcolm wrote:
Vajryāna does in fact mean a specific method: creation stage and completion stage, which themselves depends on empowerment.

conebeckham said:
...which depends on tradition, and on lineage.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, March 13th, 2018 at 1:21 AM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Vajryāna does in fact mean a specific method: creation stage and completion stage, which themselves depends on empowerment.

Astus said:
Is there anything in Vajrayana that could not be categorised under those two stages? If no, are all creation and completion stage practices equal? If no, why call it a specific method, when they are actually large categories of numerous methods?

Malcolm wrote:
All deities in highest yoga tantra possess two stages.

The procedures of creation differ very little from one to another. They all generally possess the five abhisambodhis and the four limbs of approach and accomplishment.

Completion stage practices vary quite a bit more, but one cannot randomly use one completion method given in one system with that of another system since the transmission lineages are different, as well as the specific tantric system to which any given deity might belong, that is, father tantra, mother, tantra or nondual tantra, and that influences what kind if completion stage practice one engages in. However, there are some completion methods that are universal, like vajra recitation.

In sum, the method of Vajrayāna is the two stages and everything is included in those two.

Astus said:
Furthermore, what would not allow someone to practise first a sadhana of Tara, then contemplate on Joshu's Mu, and finish off with observing the disgusting nature of the body?

Malcolm wrote:
What people do in their own caves is their own business, but I have never heard Vajrayāna master teach Joshu's mu. It isn't needed.

As to observing that the body is disgusting, this contemplation cannot be performed by Vajrayāna (HYT) practitioners at all. People in kriya, cārya, and yoga tantra, on the other hand, can practice that contemplation since there is no vow of maintaining pure perception of the body 24/7/365.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 10:59 PM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
If you start practicing Vajrayana, you will no longer be someone who practices Rinzai, and vice versa.

Astus said:
Neither Vajrayana nor Rinzai Zen means a specific method but they include various teachings and techniques, don't they?

Malcolm wrote:
Vajryāna does in fact mean a specific method: creation stage and completion stage, which themselves depends on empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 10:56 PM
Title: Re: Your Spiritual Youth
Content:



Queequeg said:
You don't mean that, do you? That all the translators who translated the Chinese followed Kern's translation from Sanskrit?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. They all follow Hurvitz, who in turn follows Kern.

Queequeg said:
Do you really think so little of these translators?

Malcolm wrote:
I just know what the Sanskrit and Tibetan say, and that Kern, someone with little knowledge of Buddhism, got this passage in particular wrong, and up to the present, the Kern translation has been regarded as the standard reference translation from Sanskrit. Thus, errors in Kern's presentation have unfortunately been enshrined and continuously repeated in every translation to the present since they were perpetuated by Hurvitz in his 1976 translation.

Sorry for being a pain in the ass and checking English translations of passages against Sanskrit and Tibetan before accepting them as scripture. I guess I shouldn't do that again, someone might get offended.

Queequeg said:
Where do you get this? You're speculating about the translation methods.

Malcolm wrote:
Nope, it is pretty clear. Scholars, like judges, tend to follow precedents.

Queequeg said:
It has nothing to really do with the Sanskrit original, which presents a different issue, but how Kumarajiva rendered the passage in Chinese. The question is how the Chinese reads.

Malcolm wrote:
I allowed for commentarial variation above.

Queequeg said:
The translators after Hurvitz' knew the weaknesses of his translation and we're careful about that, among them, he rather uncritically considered the Sanskrit version Kern translated as coming from a close recension to the one Kumarajiva translated. This has been established to not be the case. He also relied too much on Kern.



Malcolm wrote:
It is unlikely there was any drift for the passage in question among the differing Sanskrit recensions. According to https://www.scribd.com/doc/284915735/Saddharma-Pundarika-Sutra-Dr-P-L-Vaidya, the Kumarajiva recension closely resembles the Tibetan translation. Hence my contention that people translating the text are just relying on precedent. And in fact, Kern may be deferring to Burnouf's earlier French rendering. I don't read French, so I cannot be certain of this.

Queequeg said:
The fact is the recent translators have looked at the text with fresh eyes and have tried to render the Chinese as written. That's why this passage reads very differently in the several recent translations. In all of them, the Buddha explains he responds to conditions.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, I have checked several translations for this specific passage, and they all basically say the same thing (Reeves, Threefold, BDK, Watson) in virtually identical language with respect to this passage.

Queequeg said:
This point about response not being just some thoughtless act is explained throughout the text in the examples of the fathers who, in response to conditions, try one thing without success and then contrive another to save their children.

I'm not really interested in a minute debate about the nature of the Buddha as presented in the Lotus Sutra. You have made clear you have your ideas about it and have preconceived notions that the text doesn't mean what it reads.

Malcolm wrote:
In fact, I have far less preconceived notions of the text than you, since it is not that important in our tradition. Nevertheless, when cited as scripture, is appropriate to check the citation.

The translation of the passage you cite simply is not that rigorous and stands on long, though erroneous, precedent. The Buddha simply is not asking himself a question in this passage. The word kathaṃ can be an interrogative, but more often than not, as reflected in the Tibetan translation, means "by all means."


Queequeg said:
Have a great day!

Malcolm wrote:
You too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 8:55 PM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
If you start practicing Vajrayana, you will no longer be someone who practices Rinzai, and vice versa.
as long as they take care not to mix up the different levels of teachings.

Astus said:
So being "Drukpa Kagyu" or "Rinzai Zen" is not an issue and has no relevance. That's why I said that tradition and lineage were not the key factors.
With respect to the last point, however, that is really oriented towards mastering the five sciences.
What I referred to was the https://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/library/glossary/individual.html?key=verse_of_four_universal_vows, and that says "Dharma gates", meaning Buddhist teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 11:42 AM
Title: Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel
Content:
smcj said:
How do you guys feel about the bible thumpers in America that promote patriotism as a religious vale? Do you understand why the U.S. Constitution has the separation of church and state?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, to protect religious freedom, even if that means one is an atheist, that is, one is protected from being assaulted by the religious views of others.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 7:52 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:
Wayfarer said:
Again this is why Madhyamika is dialectical, i.e. a dialogue between two poles 'is' and 'is not'. Something becomes clear from that understanding of 'neither is nor is not'. Whereas what we're always naturally inclined to do, is to hold to one side or another. That is what makes Madhyamika dynamic, i.e. it's not a fixed view regarding 'what is', but an understanding of the conditioned nature of objects of perception and of the perceiver.

Sherab said:
If you have understood my position in the thread, you will notice that it starts with the avoidance of the two extremes of existence (eternalism) and non-existence (nihilism).

Malcolm wrote:
Advaitans make precisely the same claim about brahmin as you make about your ultimate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 7:50 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:


Sherab said:
You are putting words in my mouth.  That is misrepresentation.  So far, I only claim that there is an ultimate and that ultimate is indescribable.


Malcolm wrote:
Your claim is no different than the claim of Christians, Muslims, Hindus and so on who similarly claim an ineffable absolute.

Sherab said:
That is what you think.  And you think that what you think is correct.  Such hubris, and coming from one who does not wish to confront the logical incoherence of his position when pointed out.  That is precisely why no progress can be made in this discussion.

Go back and re-read the thread and you will not find anywhere where I claim that there is an ineffable absolute.  I repeat, I made the claim that there is an ultimate.  You are equating that the ultimate I claim is equivalent to an ineffable absolute.  You have been repeating this claim so many times, despite my disputing your claim each time.  I am beginning to think that you are hoping that by making the claim often enough, it will stick and allow you to win the argument.  That would be consistent with your unwillingness to confront the logical incoherence in your position.  This is not something that I expect from someone of your standing.  It is truly disappointing.

Malcolm wrote:
An ineffable ultimate isn't the slightest bit different from an ineffable absolute. "Ultimate" and "absolute" are synonyms.

BTW, I guess you believe if you crow about my "logical inconherence" long enough, someone will believe you.

The long and short of it is, the only incoherence here is your position that there is some sort of ineffable, independent ultimate in Buddhism. There isn't. Emptiness is also empty.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 7:41 AM
Title: Re: Your Spiritual Youth
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
This passage is not in fact a question Buddha is asking himself, at least not in the Sanskrit original. This error in translation begins with Kern's translation from Sanskrit,  and has been copied by every translator of the Kumarajiva recension since, including Hurvitz.

Queequeg said:
You don't mean that, do you? That all the translators who translated the Chinese followed Kern's translation from Sanskrit?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. They all follow Hurvitz, who in turn follows Kern.

Queequeg said:
Do you really think so little of these translators?

Malcolm wrote:
I just know what the Sanskrit and Tibetan say, and that Kern, someone with little knowledge of Buddhism, got this passage in particular wrong, and up to the present, the Kern translation has been regarded as the standard reference translation from Sanskrit. Thus, errors in Kern's presentation have unfortunately been enshrined and continuously repeated in every translation to the present since they were perpetuated by Hurvitz in his 1976 translation.

Sorry for being a pain in the ass and checking English translations of passages against Sanskrit and Tibetan before accepting them as scripture. I guess I shouldn't do that again, someone might get offended.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 5:20 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Grigoris said:
That is why Nagarjuna did not set forth a position regarding ultimate truth, but rather explained what it isn't.

Malcolm wrote:
Not so fast, Kimosabe. Nāgārjuna writes in the Mahāyāna Twenty:

Because there is no birth in ultimate truth,
there is also no liberation in it as well. 
Buddhas are just like space, and likewise,
the characteristic of sentient beings is the same.

He also wrote in the Ratnavali:

Saying "I exist," "it is mine"
is the opposite of ultimate truth,
Why? these two do not arise
when the way things really are is comprehended. 
The aggregates arise from grasping a self, 
that grasping at a self is, in reality, deceptive.


These are both positions concerning ultimate truth.

Grigoris said:
He also says:  "If I had any thesis, then I would have that fault.  Because I have no thesis I am only faultless."
Refutations of Objections

So which Nagarjuna are we going to roll with?

Malcolm wrote:
He is referring to inherent existence in that passage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 3:48 AM
Title: Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel
Content:


kalden yungdrung said:
Yeh in that sense that left is extreme and right is the opposite of left also extreme and that is idiot too.
No middle way at the moment, so their adherents are imo opinion idiots, it does not make sense until now to adhere one of those extreme parties,who are also engaged in violence and that is idiot too.

The only thing which is left is Dharma practice and give compassion and HELP to those who are in need for that, that is not left nor right, that is the real thing  and never idiot (for a Buddhist).

Malcolm wrote:
You are engaging in politics right now.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 3:26 AM
Title: Re: Questions and Answers
Content:
Grigoris said:
That is why Nagarjuna did not set forth a position regarding ultimate truth, but rather explained what it isn't.

Malcolm wrote:
Not so fast, Kimosabe. Nāgārjuna writes in the Mahāyāna Twenty:

Because there is no birth in ultimate truth,
there is also no liberation in it as well. 
Buddhas are just like space, and likewise,
the characteristic of sentient beings is the same.

He also wrote in the Ratnavali:

Saying "I exist," "it is mine"
is the opposite of ultimate truth,
Why? these two do not arise
when the way things really are is comprehended. 
The aggregates arise from grasping a self, 
that grasping at a self is, in reality, deceptive.


These are both positions concerning ultimate truth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 2:17 AM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
we define traditions based on the disciplines we follow.

Astus said:
In that case those who take the five precepts, the bodhisattva vows, and the samayas, can follow sravaka, bodhisattva, and vajrayana teachings at the same time. After all, one of the four main Mahayana vows is mastering all teachings.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, as long as they take care not to mix up the different levels of teachings. With respect to the last point, however, that is really oriented towards mastering the five sciences.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 1:54 AM
Title: Re: Your Spiritual Youth
Content:






kirtu said:
This highlights a limitation of language.

Shakyamuni is not asking a question, not even of himself, except rhetorically, as a teaching device.    He is explaining Bodhicitta in conduct to the people he is addressing.

Kirt

Queequeg said:
How is language limited?

kirtu said:
Language does not exactly represent reality and relies on conventions that people have assented to socially.

On top of which, as Malcolm indicates, the translation is wrong.

I am however surprised that this  specific verse hadn't already been discussed in commentaries on the Lotus Sutra within your own school (taking the Lotus schools as a set).

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
It is possible Chinese commentaries treat it as a question. But I don't know, it sure is not a question in Sanskrit or Tibetan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 1:44 AM
Title: Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You can always ceased reading and posting in this board, if your delicate sensibilities are so wounded by having to see political speech on DW.

kirtu said:
And this response is supposed to be a reflection of the paramita of friendliness?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope, it is a reflection of my annoyance  at the OP's bid to limit speech here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This is not true. They mean everything. For example, you will never find creation and completion stage in common Mahāyāna, nor the view of four-fold emptiness in Śrāvakayāna.

Astus said:
Is common Mahayana a tradition? What lineage claims to be its upholder?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, of course. Anywhere were the bodhisattva vows are transmitted is a place where the tradition of common Mahāyāna is being upheld.

we define traditions based on the disciplines we follow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 1:34 AM
Title: Re: Your Spiritual Youth
Content:
tenyang said:
On a side note, I still think that the Dharma and science should go hand in hand. They are just different tools or frameworks to seek out answers to different questions.

Grigoris said:
Buddhism is not about looking for answers to questions, all the asking and answering has been done already.  Buddhism is about applying the answers and practicing for liberation.

Queequeg said:
I don't know if the Buddha would put it that way.
At all times I think to myself:
How can I cause living beings
to gain entry into the unsurpassed way
and quickly acquire the body of a buddha?
Shakyamuni Buddha, Lotus Sutra

Malcolm wrote:
This passage is not in fact a question Buddha is asking himself, at least not in the Sanskrit original. This error in translation begins with Kern's translation from Sanskrit,  and has been copied by every translator of the Kumarajiva recension since, including Hurvitz.

It properly reads in both Sanskrit and Tibetan:

Always knowing [who should] practice [which] practice,
likewise I teach sentient beings
in order place them in awakening by every means, 
so that they obtain the buddhadharmas by every means.

Thus the passage in question, rather than expressing a question, expresses his knowledge of all modes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 12:34 AM
Title: Re: What place does pilgrimage have in Buddhist practice?
Content:


amanitamusc said:
ChNNR went to Kailash and wrote about it.It seems he thought it
was important.
Did he write as extensively about the other places you mention?

Malcolm wrote:
ChNN's interest is more related to Tibetan culture and the location of Zhang Zhung than Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, March 12th, 2018 at 12:07 AM
Title: Re: Shantideva?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
as Shantideva points out, it is better to wear shoes than to try and cover the world in leather.

boda said:
Nice idiom. Shantideva?

Nicholas Weeks said:
Perhaps not original with Shantideva.  The  older text of the Yoga Vasistha uses a similar simile:
When one’s mind is perfected, the whole world appears to him
to be full of nectar, just as to a man putting on a
pair of shoes the whole earth appears, as it were,
covered with leather. (V, 21, 14.)

Malcolm wrote:
Pretty sure the adage predates both...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 11th, 2018 at 11:34 PM
Title: Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel
Content:
Grigoris said:
More to the point:  Considering things in dualistic terms of "dirty" and "pure" also tends to shoot Great Perfection (and Tantric and yogic practice) down in flames.

kalden yungdrung said:
Tashi delek G,

These disgusting political coverstations here aboard , i see on the level of Theravada / Sutra, the field of dualism. Therefore remarkable that Dzogchenpas are here involved, in these bad kind of dualisms and stamp the world accordingly their "opinions" about good and bad.

Malcolm wrote:
You can always ceased reading and posting in this board, if your delicate sensibilities are so wounded by having to see political speech on DW.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 11th, 2018 at 11:32 PM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:
Astus said:
Thinking in terms of tradition and lineage is not a particularly useful approach, because it focuses only on people and communities instead of the precepts and the teachings. Neither tradition nor lineage mean much in terms of view and practice.

Malcolm wrote:
This is not true. They mean everything. For example, you will never find creation and completion stage in common Mahāyāna, nor the view of four-fold emptiness in Śrāvakayāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 11th, 2018 at 11:29 PM
Title: Re: Tradition shmadition, lineage shmineage
Content:


pael said:
How about lineage of Shinran? It attracts me. Can it be combined with Dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
No need. If you practice Dzogchen, you will be reborn in buddhafields automatically. Of course, if you Nembutsu, you can practice it. But there is not need to "combine" Pure land and Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 11th, 2018 at 6:46 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sherab's analysis merely indicates that ultimate truth is cognition, not that it is an independent reality....

Sherab said:
You are putting words in my mouth.  That is misrepresentation.  So far, I only claim that there is an ultimate and that ultimate is indescribable.


Malcolm wrote:
Your claim is no different than the claim of Christians, Muslims, Hindus and so on who similarly claim an ineffable absolute.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 11th, 2018 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: Political discussions on Dharma Wheel
Content:
Monlam Tharchin said:
Mantrik and Simon, instead of simply disagreeing, criticisms and insinuations about others' Dharma practice being cowardly or incomplete? Misrepresenting our position and dismissing us as snowflakes doesn't show any desire to communicate.

If this is how metadiscussion about politics goes, maybe you can see why some feel the way they do by the actual political discussions themselves.
I'm not sure about a ban on politics here but this thread is kind of a microcosm of the problem
Kalden Yungdrung and I aren't newbies here either. I would hope that input about DW from a member since 2010 would be met with more than derision.

Malcolm wrote:
KY is just mad because his anti-muslim alt-right agit-prop was shut down.

Had the board a moratorium on political speech from the start, this would be one thing —— but DNS did not set that up. He followed E-Sangha's liberal policies towards speech.

If this board took a turn toward the illiberalism KY is advocating, I would abandon it in a second. So, to those who don't like political speech, my advice is that they should not read it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, March 11th, 2018 at 12:18 AM
Title: Re: "One Mind" in Hua Yen thought
Content:


Coëmgenu said:
How does the framing of the question on terms of " where is X" (regardless of if 'X' is a chariot, the self, or the 'scent of a flower') instead of "what is X" change the question & the answer?


Malcolm wrote:
"Chariot" is a conventional truth, meaning when we hitch it up to horses, etc., we can go places. We know what a chariot is. No one has doubts about what a chariot is.

But where the chariot is, this another issue altogether. Things are designated on a collection of parts. But a given thing cannot be found in any of the parts, all the parts together, or separate from the parts. So where is that given thing? The thing is found in our imputation and no where else. This is why the question of identity is what is this given thing, but where is this given thing. The purpose of this analysis, naturally, is to show that the self is merely an imputation on a collection of aggregates and that is all.

Sherab's analysis merely indicates that ultimate truth is cognition, not that it is an independent reality. In Abhidharma, Vasubandhu says the perception of water is relative truth, the perception of its wetness, coolness, and limpidity is ultimate truth.

Finally, if the ultimate truth of emptiness is not a conventional truth, it will not be effective in bringing about elimination of clinging, etc. Therefore, we say that ultimate truth is part of conventional truth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 10th, 2018 at 12:04 PM
Title: Re: The Self-Arisen Vidya Tantra and The Self-Liberated Vidya Tantra A Translation of the Rigpa Rang Shar and Rigpa Rang
Content:
Tlalok said:
Any chance for a reading transmission for this bad boy like Buddhahood in This Life, Malcom?

Malcolm wrote:
There is a lung. But the colophon states that possession of the text by people qualified through empowerment is sufficient to read it, unlike the rest of the seventeen tantras, which do require a lung.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, March 10th, 2018 at 6:26 AM
Title: Re: Is Mind Fundamental?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Lonchenpa and Dzogchen in general does not reject external objects.

treehuggingoctopus said:
I recall you saying that the Yogacarin model is kosher as well?

Malcolm wrote:
Yogacara Madhyamaka, ala Shantarakshita, not cittamatra.


