﻿Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 10:22 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I sort of like that the DC does it's own stuff, but is there an explicit reason they do not use an available streaming service?

I mean if the answer is that they want the DC to remain independent of these, that is a good thing, and we should take our lumps...but if not...

Malcolm wrote:
Initially, they developed their webcast platform hoping to also sell services to others.

Actually, the DC webcast platform is one of the most stable out there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 5:45 AM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In other words, it is a fail.




Coëmgenu said:
Neither stopping, nor starting, nor ending.
Neither endless, nor single, nor many.
I salute he who taught, the Buddha Full-wrought,
of dependent origination.

I could go further.



Malcolm wrote:
Your rendering  is incorrect. it has only six terms, not eight:

Not ceasing, not arising, 
not annihilated, not permanent,
not going, not coming,
not different, not the same,

And full wrought? What does that mean?

And how about pacification of proliferation?

Also the order, not ceasing, not arising, etc., is significant.

Coëmgenu said:
I've been scolded once before for not staying on topic!

But yes, the auscipious cessation of hypostatization is missing. Similarly, as you noted, two terms from the beginning list are omitted for the rhyme.

I originally had it ending like

The goodly, I laud, the D.O. he taught,
for the ending of reification

But I decided, since the effort wasn't a serious proposal for a all-limerick MMK, that it was ultimately more amusing to have the first post end with a rhyme based on "dependent origination" itself.

---------
---------
---------
PS, and I forgot to add:

Malcolm wrote:
And full wrought? What does that mean?

Coëmgenu said:
"Full-wrought" it was happens when you try to squeeze "Fully Enlightened Buddha"/saṃbuddhas into 2 syllables and have it rhyme with "taught".


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 5:43 AM
Title: Re: Vajrayāna and the need to have complete Sense-Organs intact.
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
If body mandala visualization were the only means of practicing vajrayana,

Malcolm wrote:
The body mandala is not a visualization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 5:35 AM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:
Vasana said:
We're all lazy...

Malcolm wrote:
You don't need to worry. Vimalamitra states:

One of average diligence sees the instruction of the guru, seeing the direct perception of vidyā. However, because they are distracted by worldly distractions, they never have time to practice. When they cast off this body of traces, through the blessings of seeing the door of profound dharmatā, after they find solace in the natural nirmanakāya buddhafields, they attain buddhahood. Thus, there is not a single one who has entered into this teaching who fails to attain buddhahood.  This it is said that for these ones, “the appearances of samsara are impossible.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 5:32 AM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:


Rick said:
What about the Ferdinands of this world who swoop in and sniff deeply (and ecstatically) from Dzogchen, then from Advaita, then from Krishnamurti, then back to Dzogchen, and so on? Are we invited to the buddhahood party?

Malcolm wrote:
If you enter into Dzogchen teachings in a real sense, you wont be interested in other teachings at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 5:31 AM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:
Yuren said:
So what's the success rate like, in percentages?
For instance, how many have become enlightened by following Namkhai Norbu?

Malcolm wrote:
Everyone who follows Dzogchen teachings will attain buddhahood, either in this life, the bardo, or the very next lifetime. As Paṇḍita Vimalamitra says:


Thus, there is not a single one who has entered into this teaching who fails to attain buddhahood.

Yuren said:
What % of those manage to attain it in this lifetime? Obviously you can't know but if you had to take a guess?


Malcolm wrote:
No idea, but that does not concern me very much.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 5:30 AM
Title: Re: Guruyoga in daily life
Content:
Miroku said:
How can one practice guru yoga in daily life?

Malcolm wrote:
Atiguru yoga. It can be practiced hundreds of times a day in all activities.

Temicco said:
You didn't really answer the question.

Malcolm wrote:
I answered it very precisely, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 2:02 AM
Title: Re: enlightment in one life
Content:
Yuren said:
So what's the success rate like, in percentages?
For instance, how many have become enlightened by following Namkhai Norbu?

Malcolm wrote:
Everyone who follows Dzogchen teachings will attain buddhahood, either in this life, the bardo, or the very next lifetime. As Paṇḍita Vimalamitra says:


Thus, there is not a single one who has entered into this teaching who fails to attain buddhahood.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: The Six Lamps
Content:


Lindama said:
At the risk of being irreverent, I'd say follow your heart. I don't see Norbu lacking in generosity.  And, consider this... there is something unhealthy when you can't say no to your guru.  If you look thru the zen literature, you'll see this... it is welcomed.

Malcolm wrote:
I am afraid you don't understand Rinpoche's point. His point is very simple. It is easy to have misconceptions about thogal teachings if you read them without proper preparation. We see this all the time — people have wild fantasies based on so called "Dzogchen" cosmology, that is, how appearance of the basis arise from the basis, and what "basis" actually means.

When you have misconceptions about Dzogchen teachings, you will block your realization.

Now then, ChNN never said to anyone, "You cannot read thogal texts until you receive thogal teachings from me." He said, "You should not read thogal texts until you have received thogal teachings in a proper way."

Moreover, the presentation of the lamps is markedly different in these two different Dzogchen traditions, their names are different, and so on. Thus, while their meaning is the same, goal is the same, etc., they are different traditions and need to be respected. Just because you have received Bonpo teachings on Dzogchen does not mean you have the proper transmission to read any Buddhist thogal text. There are important differences in the two traditions based on terminology, and so on. Basically, if you want their transmissions, you must go out and seek them from someone qualified to give them, but not just start reading books because after all, we have the first amendment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 1:35 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
javier.espinoza.t said:
in Rimpoche teachings is Vajrayana considered part of Mahayana or not?

i think that obviously yes, but another ''old'' practitioner said to me that no
so i got confused and dissapointed hahahaha

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrayāna is part of Mahāyāna, definitely.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Guruyoga in daily life
Content:
Miroku said:
How can one practice guru yoga in daily life?

Malcolm wrote:
Atiguru yoga. It can be practiced hundreds of times a day in all activities.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 12:07 AM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
In English, it is not localizable to produce a philosophical document in verse.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and since there is really very little in Buddhist texts that are not of philosophical import...

Karikas and gathas should not be trivialized with awkward renderings to force them into some kind of metered, rhymed verse.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 4th, 2017 at 12:06 AM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
Go ahead, try.
Neither stopping, nor starting, nor ending.
Neither endless, nor single, nor many.
I salute he who taught, the Buddha Full-wrought,
of dependent origination.

I could go further.



Malcolm wrote:
Your rendering  is incorrect. it has only six terms, not eight:

Not ceasing, not arising, 
not annihilated, not permanent,
not going, not coming,
not different, not the same,

And full wrought? What does that mean?

And how about pacification of proliferation?

Also the order, not ceasing, not arising, etc., is significant.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 3rd, 2017 at 10:15 AM
Title: Re: The Six Lamps
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The answer is really simple. Go get the transmission from a teacher you trust, Bon or Buddhist. Then, read whatever you like.


Johnny Dangerous said:
Glad everyone chimed in,I hadn't really thought about how complex this was, but here's the dilemma:

Indeed, I definitely consider ChNN my root Guru. I also take teachings with TWR, and have (very periodic) access to him in person. I am not bothered by the Bön/Buddhist dichotomy, for whatever reason, nor am I concerned in this conversation with some people's opinion's on TWR's books, opinions on Kyab Rig or whatever - just for the record, and to keep on topic.

Unfortunately, I am pretty sure I will never be able to get Thogal instructions, and perhaps no in person instruction at all from ChNN, even though he is my root teacher. I have thus far followed Rinpoche's advice on this  to the letter, including skipping parts of books (e.g. Heart Drops) that I already owned and hadn't read yet when I found out his position, so I have followed his rule.

The dilemma is, am I supposed to do that forever, since I can never have in person instructions from ChNN on Thogal? I mean it isn't the hugest deal as I would never try to follow instructions from a book on something like Thogal anyway, and I am nowhere near ready for it, but it does seem to preclude me from reading a number of things I am interested in indefinitely. this coupled with the fact that Bönpo teachers seem to view it differently makes for some confusing decisions when I am deciding whether or not to try reading something. perhaps I should simply read less.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 3rd, 2017 at 5:28 AM
Title: Re: Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche
Content:



Miroku said:
Was he supposed to take part on the creation of this book? Or how did he ommit him?

Lukeinaz said:
Sorry that was a bit confusing.  Totally off topic.  I was referring to Khyentse Wangchug not appearing in the lineage tree found in this book.

Norwegian said:
Politics and/or total ignorance.

Malcolm wrote:
The latter, most likely.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 3rd, 2017 at 4:38 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
If the teaching in question is correct, than perhaps this is an illustration of a shortfall of the general tradition of basing perspectives of Buddhadharma around particular sūtrāṇi.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. The Indians never had this custom.

Coëmgenu said:
the narrative that "There is no buddhahood/ in the desire realm or the formless realm." is quite problematized, if not outrightly rejected.

Malcolm wrote:
People often ignore what sūtras actually say.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 3rd, 2017 at 3:49 AM
Title: Re: Chatral Sangye Dorje
Content:


Simon E. said:
Chatral Rinpoche was the antithesis of most modern Vajra teachers.
He wrote nothing.

Malcolm wrote:
This is not actually true. He wrote books under pseudonyms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 3rd, 2017 at 3:26 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
Well, I said that this was a particularly Tibetan belief, because this strata of Indian Buddhism only survives in Tibet.

Malcolm wrote:
The Lanka only exist in Tibet? that's news to me.

Coëmgenu said:
Oh no, I referred to the interpretation of it.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a statement requiring interpretation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 3rd, 2017 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: The Six Lamps
Content:
Lhasa said:
OP was asking about the Bonpo teachers' attitude toward this. In the Bon subforum not the DC.


Malcolm wrote:
He is a student of ChNN, in other words he considers ChNN his root guru. He asked for advice. We told him what his guru thinks. It is really that simple.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 3rd, 2017 at 1:31 AM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Aesthetics are important.

Zhen Li said:
I happen to like 19th century translations with verse as verse. It's a matter of preference, and it also requires more skill on the part of the translator.

Malcolm wrote:
If you like clumsy, non-idiomatic translations,  go for it.

Factually speaking however, you could never get the MMK into rhyme in English. You can't even really get into anything resembling a meter without doing violence to the text.

Go ahead, try. You will see what a dismal failure it is. Also, most of these 19th century translations are very, very, poor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 3rd, 2017 at 1:27 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:



Coëmgenu said:
Well, I said that this was a particularly Tibetan belief, because this strata of Indian Buddhism only survives in Tibet.

Malcolm wrote:
The Lanka only exist in Tibet? that's news to me.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 3rd, 2017 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:




dzogchungpa said:
Isn't 'politics' singular?

Malcolm wrote:
"Politic" refers to the body politic, not politics.


dzogchungpa said:
OK, this is interesting. With reference to https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=politics I feel that TC was using  'politics' in either the second, third or fourth senses listed there and apparently in those senses it can take either a singular or plural verb, something I didn't know. I can say that as a native American English speaker I find "US politics is boring" much more natural sounding.

Malcolm wrote:
Politic also means:
Showing sound or pragmatic judgment; prudent; judicious: found it politic not to mention his youthful indiscretions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 9:36 PM
Title: Re: The Six Lamps
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Can I just read this? Generally speaking, how do Bön teachers feel about people reading texts such as this? Are there any 'requirements' as such, or should one just use their judgment?

Norwegian said:
Since I know you're a student of ChNN: ChNN does not want his students to read these things before they receive it. He's very clear on that.

Malcolm wrote:
Seconded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 9:34 PM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:
Queequeg said:
Flynn is fried. Next up: Kushner. The knot tightens...

TharpaChodron said:
One thing you can't say is that US politics are boring.


dzogchungpa said:
Isn't 'poltics' singular?

Malcolm wrote:
"Politic" refers to the body politic, not politics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 5:43 AM
Title: Re: More bad news
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
BTW, while I am certainly a friend of Lama Tsultrim's, I am not her student. I think however that Tara Mandala is one of the best Dharma centers in the US. The people who are there are quite serious, very good practitioners in general. It is the one of the few Dharma communities in the US worth a damn.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 5:36 AM
Title: Re: More bad news
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
According to Lama Tsultrim, Tara Mandala had some issues with some Lamas who were at a drupchen led by Tulku Sangngak in 2009. As a result of their behavior, they were asked to leave, permanently.

Tara Mandala then came up with a form that all teachers, staff, and volunteers must sign, pledging they will not engage in behavior that might be construed as an unwanted advance. This includes Tulku Sangngak.

In Lama Tsultrim's estimation, Tulku Sangngak did not inappropriately touch this women. The incident, when it occurred was not in private, and there was no further contact between he and she.

This was shared with me in a conversation with her, and she expressed her wish that if it came up, that I should feel free to explain she has a different view of what happened.

Anyone who has further concerns about this should contact Tara Mandala's board of director's directly. Tara Mandala is not a place that covers up sexual harassment and they have a zero tolerance policy concerning it. I am personally aware of people who have been expelled from Tara Mandala, both Lamas and westerners for this reason.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 4:21 AM
Title: Re: More bad news
Content:


passel said:
“

Malcolm wrote:
This one does not show up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 4:17 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:
fuki said:
Yup, but it has nothing to do with measuring worldly things like power and weakness, war and peace, etc.
In many cases it does, the length countries or ppl go through to aquire power or wealth is mostly based on the delusion of self, grasping/rejecting, hope and fear.

Malcolm wrote:
Great, so it is all based on hope and fear. Fantastic. Then what?


fuki said:
And ppls measurement is often based on the same, your politicians are still making decision based on the cold war paranoia and citizens are being spoon fed to buy into it.

Malcolm wrote:
Not just my politicians, also your politicians in Europe are making the same kinds of decisions. You think Russia is a friend of Western Europe, or of democracy in general? I don't. The reason why NATO was created is still there.

fuki said:
Whether the actual measurement is based on facts (the way you refer to it) or not, one can measure the branches but I tend to view it from the root,

Malcolm wrote:
It is fine to view things from the root, but if you cannot cure it, you are like a hero without weapons.


fuki said:
hence we look at things differently depending on things in this conceptual universe, a word like power is relative afterall hence we can look at it differently, which makes it fun. So I could say for the sake of the conversation yes to your version of powerful, but that kind of power is no power to me at all.

Malcolm wrote:
Apart from the fact that because of American power, Russians are not invading Europe, though they are trying to destroy the EU by backing fascists in every country.

https://nltimes.nl/2017/11/22/wilders-defends-russia-speaks-russophobia


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 4:08 AM
Title: Re: ChNN WEBCAST TOMORROW
Content:
TaTa said:
They uploaded an audio recording of tonights event

Aryjna said:
Where is it uploaded? I don't see any new recording in the replay page.

Malcolm wrote:
http://webcast.dzogchen.net/data/uploads/files/20171201amchnnspeach.mp3


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 3:38 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:
fuki said:
Don't remember the author (it was a rinpoche) who said;
"Ignorance is an omnipresent phenomena"


dzogchungpa said:
Perhaps you are thinking of the mahasiddha Zappa who famously said in one of his dohas:
Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.

fuki said:
It was this one

“We can observe many varieties of suffering and at the same time recognize a common basis that applies to all beings. This common basis is omnipresent ignorance, and it expresses itself in a constant alternation between hope and fear.”

~Lama Gendun Rinpoche

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, but it has nothing to do with measuring worldly things like power and weakness, war and peace, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 3:33 AM
Title: Re: Tiantai Zhiyi Magnum Opus Translated: "Clear Serenity, Quiet Insight" (Mo-ho chih-kuan) 3vol
Content:



Queequeg said:
"Searing" yeah, no doubt. I don't know how familiar you are with the underlying divide here but, folks take it pretty personally.

Can I ask how familiar you are with all this?

Malcolm wrote:
I have not read Ziporyn's book. I read Swanson's mentioned book some time ago.

One difference between Ziporyn and Garfield, is the latter has had a permanent and severe allergy to Dzogchen, which apparently has only recently abated somewhat.

Queequeg said:
If you have the time and inclination, I would be very interested in your take on Ziporyn and the whole subject.

Somehow, I'm not surprised that Garfield would not take to Dzogchen well. Hehe.

Malcolm wrote:
One thing I am curious about -- is Ziporyn a practitioner, or just a wordsmith?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 3:09 AM
Title: Re: ChNN WEBCAST TOMORROW
Content:
Tenma said:
ChNN's webcasts are limited from what I found and protected with high prices.

Malcolm wrote:
No, they are free, actually,

Tenma said:
I mean as in that, and also are protected only to members.  Can't access.

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on the webcast. Most are open, some are closed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 3:06 AM
Title: Re: ChNN WEBCAST TOMORROW
Content:
Tenma said:
ChNN's webcasts are limited from what I found and protected with high prices.

Malcolm wrote:
No, they are free, actually,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: Tiantai Zhiyi Magnum Opus Translated: "Clear Serenity, Quiet Insight" (Mo-ho chih-kuan) 3vol
Content:


Queequeg said:
Garfield et al. seem to be suffering the same failure. They seem to be treating this as a scholastic game - Zhiyi was talking about the struggle and path of enlightenment, not some logic puzzle to be solved. The moment that you forget that this is what all those words are about, you have lost any hope of understanding Zhiyi.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, Garfield, et all, are making a very searing observation about Ziporyn's intellectual laziness and lack of attention to detail regarding a very specific point.

Queequeg said:
"Searing" yeah, no doubt. I don't know how familiar you are with the underlying divide here but, folks take it pretty personally.

Can I ask how familiar you are with all this?

Malcolm wrote:
I have not read Ziporyn's book. I read Swanson's mentioned book some time ago.

One difference between Ziporyn and Garfield, is the latter has had a permanent and severe allergy to Dzogchen, which apparently has only recently abated somewhat.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
This is purely an aesthetic difference.


Malcolm wrote:
Aesthetics are important.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 2:29 AM
Title: Re: Tiantai Zhiyi Magnum Opus Translated: "Clear Serenity, Quiet Insight" (Mo-ho chih-kuan) 3vol
Content:


Queequeg said:
Garfield et al. seem to be suffering the same failure. They seem to be treating this as a scholastic game - Zhiyi was talking about the struggle and path of enlightenment, not some logic puzzle to be solved. The moment that you forget that this is what all those words are about, you have lost any hope of understanding Zhiyi.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, Garfield, et all, are making a very searing observation about Ziporyn's intellectual laziness and lack of attention to detail regarding a very specific point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 1:26 AM
Title: Re: Breaking (or is it fake?) News..... ;)
Content:
Lindama said:
NYT corrected that to say.... "expected to plead guilty"

Malcolm wrote:
he pled guilty.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 1:02 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:


Minobu said:
it's impolite malcolm.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is precise. People who want to look at more context can just view your original post.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 12:56 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:


Queequeg said:
I wonder how we're going to repair this - we need a truly decent person to have the Bully Pulpit for at least 8 years to reset the course.


Malcolm wrote:
Well, people have to get their shit together and not leave the top of their ballots blank because they fell for Russian propaganda.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 12:54 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
I admonished you for going ad hom on Greg.

Minobu said:
actually it technically isn't .

Malcolm wrote:
This is what you said:
it says a lot about your character and the effectiveness of your Buddhist practice.
That is an ad hominem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 12:40 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:


Minobu said:
you slammed me.

Malcolm wrote:
I admonished you for going ad hom on Greg.

In other news, we live on a blue marble in space. When negative things happen, it is everyone's karma, not just one nation's.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 12:26 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:



Minobu said:
so like the world has to suffer these fools?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it is called "the ripening of karma."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 12:24 AM
Title: Re: When you first started... (lightweight question)
Content:
weitsicht said:
Don't mix the yanas

Boomerang said:
What do you mean by that?

Malcolm wrote:
She means don't use lower yāna explanations to try and explicate higher yānas principles, and vice versa. It is fine to cite something from lowers yānas if it supports higher yānas, for example, citing the Uttaratantra to elucidate tathāgatagarbha in Vajrayāna texts, or Madhyamaka texts to elucidate the principle of freedom from extremes, but you would not cite Dzogchen tantras in a Madhyamaka commentary.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 12:22 AM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:


Zhen Li said:
As regards rhyming, again, this is about localization. English verse has metre and sometimes rhyme, but that it isn't present in the source text does not mean it needn't be present in the translated text—

Malcolm wrote:
There is no need to force meter or rhyme on translations. It sounds very, very contrived and awkward. Very 19th century.

Zhen Li said:
one cannot get a one-to-one unmediated representation of a source text without reading the source text, and attempts to do so are always clumsy and Buddhist-Hybrid English.

Malcolm wrote:
Hence, we don't bother.

Zhen Li said:
Moreover, Sanskrit verse has various other features such as change of metre, and so forth, that free verse cannot replicate and it is also not true that Sanskrit does not feature rhyme, for instance, the Gītagovinda frequently employs rhyme, it is just not common.

Malcolm wrote:
Hence we don't bother trying to impose meter in translations. When we do, we always wind up with archaism, and non-idiomatic renderings in English.

Zhen Li said:
Moreover, with some material it works well, and sometimes it works better to not feature rhyme. But in the end, it's an aesthetic choice. I'm not against the translating of verse as prose, but just as you argue that Sanskrit and Tibetan does not rhyme, by that very logic we also should not slot verse translations into prose into lines as in English verse.

Malcolm wrote:
It's about the shape of the text, more than anything. The only reason to put verse in prose formatting is to cut down per-page cost in a book.

Zhen Li said:
Sanskrit pothī do not slot verses into vertical lines, they are organized just like prose except with verse numbers indicated.

Malcolm wrote:
Neither do Tibetan texts —— well, in modern printed editions of Tibetan texts, they are beginning to adopt the convention of placing verse in vertical lines, but since Tibetan blockprints and manuscripts are modeled on pothī...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 2nd, 2017 at 12:07 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:



Minobu said:
it says a lot about your character and the effectiveness of your Buddhist practice.

Malcolm wrote:
That was not called for, Minobu.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 11:44 PM
Title: Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is this link which verifies some of what the fellow above has to say, that is, that he was tasked with starting programs in India.


https://archive.li/Go0ik


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 10:46 PM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
America is the most powerful nation in the world. There will always be haters.

Lindama said:
And, the US is also the most dangerous country in the world...

Malcolm wrote:
It can be, yup, when it is run by foolish people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 10:42 PM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
America is the most powerful nation in the world. There will always be haters.

fuki said:
No such thing as a "most powerful" or "greatest country" in the world...


Malcolm wrote:
I did not say America was the "greatest" country, but it is the most powerful country in the world by any number of measures:

Economic
Military
Resources

I also never said this was a permanent condition. The most powerful nation in the world, after all, used to to be Britain.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:


Grigoris said:
Reign in your paranoia, the "minibus" was an auto correct by my smart phone.

Malcolm wrote:
Still, pretty funny.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 10:21 PM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:


Zhen Li said:
But for English, I don't personally think translations of verses should be lined up, to make them look like verses in English, if they are not in verse—if one isn't inclined to translate it as a verse, just translate it as a prose paragraph (Emmerick does this in his Suvarṇaprabhāsa translation and it works fine).

Malcolm wrote:
Speaking as someone who translates Buddhist texts (from Tibetan) all day long, day and and day out: it doesn't work just fine. For one thing, there is no rhyming in Tibetan, Sanskrit, etc.

Secondly, translating verse as prose makes it harder to located the line in the source text.

Thirdly, it is a well established convention in English that verse should be rendered in a free verse structure, and it is fine to disregard meter, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 10:14 PM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Of course there are. There are reams of passages that define the qualities of a kayānamitra. The terms guru and kalayānamitra are intimately connected in Mahāyāna Sūtras.

Astus said:
The reason I mentioned the exclusion of the monastic side is because it seems most of the kalyanamitras are within a renounced environment. Also, what types of good friends would you list?

Malcolm wrote:
Utterly besides the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 4:42 AM
Title: Re: "Believe nothing unless..." quote
Content:
weitsicht said:
honestly, I am happy to having had more replies to my post than Malcom's

Malcolm wrote:
I never actually replied to the post you made.

emaho said:
Wow. Malcolm, you've really become much more affable than in eSangha days, but this post really reminds me of the good old time when there was a thread "How to cope with Malcolm"

Malcolm wrote:
The real question is, why do I cope with the rest of you?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 4:24 AM
Title: Re: "Believe nothing unless..." quote
Content:
weitsicht said:
honestly, I am happy to having had more replies to my post than Malcom's

Malcolm wrote:
I never actually replied to the post you made.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 4:18 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Admin_PC said:
Maybe we should talk about the various nuances of the term “teacher”? Astus touched on it before with discussion of the term “kalyanamitra” vs “guru”. There seems like there may be different levels to the term.

Astus said:
If the monastic side of things is put aside, then there aren't really any clear cut definitions

Malcolm wrote:
Of course there are. There are reams of passages that define the qualities of a kayānamitra. The terms guru and kalayānamitra are intimately connected in Mahāyāna Sūtras.

For example, the Ratnānanta Sūtra says of the virtuous mentor:

One must have strong devotion for the virtuous mentor. They are never satisfied in seeking the Dharma. They have much hearing, and are diligent. They pure investigation into the treatises. They train in discernment. They train in discerning philosophical positions. They are expert in rites. One should be devoted to the guru. One must never deny the guru. One must never violate the word of the guru.

The Akṣayamati-nirdeśa states:

Those virtuous mentors are without pride, and they should be held as dear as gurus, they should be held as dear as the teacher.

The Bodhisattva-piṭaka Sūtra states:
Since I pleased a master,
I have attained freedom and endowments.
Since I relinquished evil companions,
I have found a virtuous mentor.
In order to attain awakening,
I have disregarded my body and my life.
In order to attain the awakening of a buddha,
with thoughts of faith
for the master, the guru, the object of offering,
I always behaved with respect.

And:

One should circumambulate all gurus
thereby, merit is strengthened and one's brilliance increases.

The Buddha-saṅgīti Sūtra states:

Bodhisattvas on the second bodhisattva bhumi think of eight Dharmas in their minds. If it is asked what are the eight, they are as follows: 1) they have pure discipline, 2) they are grateful and thoughtful, 3) they dwell in power of patience, 4) they are joyful and they bow, 5) they never abandon all sentient beings, 6) they are unconfused about great compassion, 7) they are devoted to the guru and consider them the Teacher (i.e. Buddha), and 8) they are diligent in the perfections.

The Suvikrāntacinta-devaputra-paripṛcchā states:

Devaputra, if a bodhisattva is endowed with four Dharmas they will be a master for all. What are these four? Absence of pride, devotion to the guru, conscientiousness, and strong aspiration.

The Śatasāhasrikā-prajñāpāramitā states:

Rely upon, attend, serve, and regard those virtuous mentors as gurus.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 3:18 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:


Minobu said:
this is all i am trying to tell you...and your screaming the numbers in the election is pissing in the wind.

Malcolm wrote:
I understand quite well the perception of Trump in the world.

Minobu said:
but do you understand those consequence and the spill over that he ends up painting americans with that brush....

Malcolm wrote:
America is the most powerful nation in the world. There will always be haters.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 3:07 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:


Minobu said:
this is all i am trying to tell you...and your screaming the numbers in the election is pissing in the wind.

Malcolm wrote:
I understand quite well the perception of Trump in the world.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 2:49 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:


Minobu said:
and if you want to split hairs..he got in due to winning a majority.
the whole electoral and popular vote thing means nothing to the average schlub.

Malcolm wrote:
He lost the popular vote by more than 3 million, and his electoral college win was by the very slimmest of margins, less than 100,000 votes determined the outcome. I hardly call that a majority. He won due to the fact that people in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio left the topic of the ticket empty, 80,000 people did this in Michigan, for example (the idiots).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 2:36 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:
CedarTree said:
Is the webcast a broadcast of a retreat?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. I suggest you follow the webcast for the upcoming retreat later in December.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:


CedarTree said:
What organization should I become a member of? To have access to the webcasts and the teachers you noted?


Malcolm wrote:
International Dzogchen Community.

CedarTree said:
Lol this site is hard to navigate, I clicked membership up at the time near sign in and it took me to "sign in" lol

Where do I see membership options and prices and all that stuff... Lol

Malcolm wrote:
I suggest you follow some retreats first, before becoming a member.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 2:18 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:


CedarTree said:
What organization should I become a member of? To have access to the webcasts and the teachers you noted?


Malcolm wrote:
International Dzogchen Community.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Trump is a fascist. So are his supporters.

Minobu said:
The world sees this man as being voted in by the vast majority of Americans.

Malcolm wrote:
He wasn't.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: Trump Tweets
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Trump is a fascist. So are his supporters.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Admin_PC said:
Maybe we should talk about the various nuances of the term “teacher”? Astus touched on it before with discussion of the term “kalyanamitra” vs “guru”. There seems like there may be different levels to the term.

Malcolm wrote:
The term used in my translation, virtuous mentor, is a translation of kalyāṇamitra. You can see from the sūtras I cited above, there is no question but that in Mahāyāna one is supposed to serve this person with respect commensurate with their kindness in teaching the Dharma. Examples of this can found in the PP Sūtras, where Sadaprarudita, despite having visions of Tathāgatas, still endeavors to find a human teacher, the bodhisattva Dharmodgata, who can teach him the perfection of wisdom.

In Hinayāna, novice bhikṣus are supposed to serve a senior teacher for ten years.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 12:36 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:
tiagolps said:
Again, evolution doesn't really matter, it doesn't change what the Buddha taught. Thats what I'm trying to get at.

boda said:
It doesn't matter how many time you say it, the fact is that our understanding of the world has developed and in accordance with that development new understandings of Buddhism have come about.

Malcolm wrote:
That does not make those understandings Buddhadharma. Buddhadharma is something very precise and specific.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 12:33 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:


boda said:
Rather, you claim their interpretation of it is incorrect.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I am claiming they reject the concept in its entirety.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 12:31 AM
Title: Re: "Believe nothing unless..." quote
Content:
Jeff H said:
But to simply tell her it’s wrong doesn’t seem helpful to me.


Malcolm wrote:
It affords her the understanding that she must be more careful in accepting quotes from unvetted sources.

Jeff H said:
Quite true. "That's not the way."
Malcolm wrote:
What can be more helpful than that?

Jeff H said:
Adding direction. "Here is the way." (As you've done for me several times.)

Malcolm wrote:
Well, it is a group effort here, I am not the only one who can do some heavy lifting.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: "Believe nothing unless..." quote
Content:
Jeff H said:
But to simply tell her it’s wrong doesn’t seem helpful to me.


Malcolm wrote:
It affords her the understanding that she must be more careful in accepting quotes from unvetted sources. What can be more helpful than that?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 1st, 2017 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:



CedarTree said:
But you would have no access to one on one with teachers to really suss things out and really delve deeply into it?  Or is that somehow built into the webcast system?

Norwegian said:
Try to travel if you can.

CedarTree said:
I might have to yah.

Does anyone know the place to sign up for the webcast and the cost?

Also the cost (I am guessing it's not Dana) of talking one on one with teachers if you travel to one of the centers, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
The webcasts are free, but in order to listen to replays, you must be a member.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:



CedarTree said:
Does one do all those practices in the lineage?


Malcolm wrote:
Some do, some don't.

CedarTree said:
Makes sense.

I have one last question for now.  Then I think I have tapped my curiousty for the current period.

What happens if this lineage doesn't have an approved location/center in your country?

Malcolm wrote:
You follow RInpoche by means of webcasts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 11:48 PM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:



CedarTree said:
And this really raises a big question for me.  What is the role of Vajra Dance, Yantra Yoga, Khaita Dances, etc.  When you go in this lineage do you study all of that stuff?  I tried researching them but they seem only in line with that lineage.  Any info you can share Malcolm as I am sure you know how it all fits in.

Malcolm wrote:
They are all secondary practices which aim at supporting the state of contemplation.

CedarTree said:
Does one do all those practices in the lineage?


Malcolm wrote:
Some do, some don't.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 11:39 PM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:



CedarTree said:
And this really raises a big question for me.  What is the role of Vajra Dance, Yantra Yoga, Khaita Dances, etc.  When you go in this lineage do you study all of that stuff?  I tried researching them but they seem only in line with that lineage.  Any info you can share Malcolm as I am sure you know how it all fits in.

Malcolm wrote:
They are all secondary practices which aim at supporting the state of contemplation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 11:20 PM
Title: Re: "Believe nothing unless..." quote
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
But you're right, upon revisiting it I realize it is not what I read, even in a bad translation.. I concede there is no way it could be an actual quote.

Malcolm wrote:
Thank you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 6:05 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:



boda said:
You claim abandonment but this is false, and because your argument rests on this basis it's invalid.


Malcolm wrote:
They abandon rebirth completely. Therefore, what they advocate is not Buddhadharma, despite whatever they may wish to call it.

BTW, you seem to lack an understanding of the four elements. They are not things, they are properties.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 6:02 AM
Title: Re: "Believe nothing unless..." quote
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Ok turn off your translator brain fir a sec

What are you arguing with me about? If you believe its a gloss on the actual wording of the sutta..great, makes sense, I believe you.

Malcolm wrote:
I am saying that the "citation" in question is totally bogus, false, fake, a forgery, and that Buddha never said anything remotely like it. I don't consider it a gloss at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 6:01 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
The Cicada said:
Seeing the way that some are willing to warp the Dharma to suit their own politics and proclivities...

Malcolm wrote:
Following your sterling example of course...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 5:54 AM
Title: Re: "Believe nothing unless..." quote
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Its from the Kalama Sutta, but usually gets  decontextualized and used to advocate a form of skepticism which is unhealthy Dharma - wise.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not even in the Kalama Sutta at all. It is a bogus citation.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I remember reading the exact thing, or something extremely close in the Kalama Sutta, prior to even having access to much commentary (pre internet days) ...so if it is a bad quote, then I am pretty sure there are 'bad' versions of the Sutta floating around. By memory, I think it was A Buddhist Bible by Goddard that I read it in, but not positive. Hell, you could incorrectly extract the same idea from the access to insight version above.

Malcolm wrote:
It is a bogus citation. The Buddha never said anything remotely similar to "Believe nothing, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

If he did, he would be contradicting himself:

"Excellent, Sariputta. Excellent. Those who have not known, seen, penetrated, realized, or attained it by means of discernment would have to take it on conviction in others that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation; whereas those who have known, seen, penetrated, realized, & attained it by means of discernment would have no doubt or uncertainty that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation."

-- Eastern Gatehouse Sutta.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 5:42 AM
Title: Re: "Believe nothing unless..." quote
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Its from the Kalama Sutta, but usually gets  decontextualized and used to advocate a form of skepticism which is unhealthy Dharma - wise.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not even in the Kalama Sutta at all. It is a bogus citation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 5:41 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Astus said:
the path.

Malcolm wrote:
No teacher, no path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 5:21 AM
Title: Re: Weitsicht New User
Content:
weitsicht said:
P.S. in absence of eligibility for signatures for newbies in this forum I'll post one here and for once:
πάντα ῥεῖ - everything changes and nothing remains still ... and ... you cannot step twice into the same stream. Hail to the Lord of Paradox.

Malcolm wrote:
Go to user control panel under your profile, select profile, then select edit signature.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 4:53 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Buddhism and the Third Precept
Content:
Grigoris said:
According to the Buddha unwholesome sexual activity (sexual misconduct) is basically any non-consensual activity, or sexual activity with somebody that is married or betrothed.  That's it.

Malcolm wrote:
And sex with children, animals, minors, as you say, those who cannot grant consent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 4:26 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:
CedarTree said:
either like yourself on the scholastic side or the heavy practice side?

Malcolm wrote:
Now you are being completely presumptuous.

CedarTree said:
Sorry I should have worded that better, I didn't mean it as a lack of you practicing just that you are exemplary for scholastic understanding.

Still curious who you think is exemplary in that lineage in the various fields


Malcolm wrote:
The senior yoga people are Fabio Andrico and Laura Evangelista.

The senior dance people are Prima Mai and Adriana Dal Borgo.

The senior teachers are Jim Valby and Elio Guarisco,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 4:06 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:
CedarTree said:
either like yourself on the scholastic side or the heavy practice side?

Malcolm wrote:
Now you are being completely presumptuous.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 4:05 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


Astus said:
There can be various reasons for an instruction. To establish the necessity of something, other options have to be excluded.

Bristollad said:
I still don't understand the distinction you are trying to draw.

Malcolm wrote:
Neither does he.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 2:30 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
This all is strictly the beliefs of Malcolm's particular tradition and where he comes from. "So we never really ever achieve buddhahood in the sahālokadhātu." is not an acceptable thing to say outside of Tibet necessarily.

Malcolm wrote:
This is straight from Mahāyāna Sūtra, and more than one.

Lankāvatāra Sūtra states:

[Those in] the divine palace of Akaniṣṭha
are free from all misdeeds,
always endowed with nonconceptuality, 
free from the arising of mind and mental factors, 
having obtained the powers and the faculty of clairvoyance,
and having obtained those samadhis, 
the perfect buddhas attain buddhahood there;
the emanations attain buddhahood here.

And:

There is no buddhahood
in the desire realm or the formless realm;
you who are free from desire will attain buddhahood
in Akaniṣṭha of the form realm.

The Ghanavyuha Sūtra states:

The buddhas abiding in that place
praise Ghanavyūha.
Ghanavyūha has existed from beginningless time.
A self-originated emanation is there,
the stainless Buddha. 
Dwelling beyond the three elements,
That place is without grasping to bliss,
it is free from the experience of I and mine,
it is unchanging, ultimately permanent, and stable. 
Ghanavyūha is unconditioned. 
The perfect buddhas awaken [there]
but without buddhahood in the supreme place, Akaniṣṭha,
the deeds of the buddha will not be performed in the desire realm. 
Once they depart Ghanavyūha 
ten million emanations of the Buddha
will always remain in yogic equipoise.

And:

The Ghanavyūha buddhafield exists beyond the subtle particle nature of the other buddhafields. The Ghanavyūha buddhafield is without the sun, planets, and the moon. Because it’s nature is unconditioned, it does not appear as the most subtle of subtle particles.

That this was normative for Indian Mahāyāna is shown by this passage from Abhayākaragupta’s Marmakaumudī commentary on the Aṣṭasāhasrikāprajñāpāramitā Sūtra.

After our teacher attained full buddhahood in Akaniṣṭha, the nirmanakāyas are born gradually and all at once in Tuṣita in one billion four-continent worlds contained within the Sahā universe, and after dying there [in Tuṣita], exhibit birth in the continent of Jambudvipa (India) and so on until he intended nirvana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 1:45 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Achard uses 'Awareness' in his new book btw.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but he also agrees it is a wholly inadequate rendering.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 1:44 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:
CedarTree said:
I would have assumed you would be in that echelon.


Malcolm wrote:
I am not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 1:41 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:


CedarTree said:
I thought that was only for the practices not the overall understandings, terms, and histories, etc?

Malcolm wrote:
Terms and so on are experiential, they are related to the practice, so they really cannot be discussed either. This is why we don't discuss them, apart from the occasional kerfuffle about how rig pa is properly translated (knowledge, knowing, in rare cases, mind)


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:


CedarTree said:
Also what about my question about you being a teacher and available?

Malcolm wrote:
Everyone who has made such an inquiry has discovered that I will just recommend my teacher, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu.

So if you are interested in Dzogchen teachings, I recommend you start there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 1:33 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:


CedarTree said:
However having a correct conceptual basis and utilizing all the aspects of this body/mind I think is useful.


Malcolm wrote:
One is not qualified to study these things without empowerment, transmission, and instruction. These teachings are part of Secret Mantra. It is called "secret" for a reason.

One is not even permitted to look at these texts without transmission, let alone discuss there contents on an open forum such as this.

Those who have empowerment, transmission, and instruction are not permitted discuss these things with those who lack empowerment, transmission, and instruction.

For example, if one buys a book on Dzogchen, no one is going to stop you, no one who is responsible will discuss the contents of the teachings with someone who is not qualified.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 1:22 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:



CedarTree said:
Ahh interesting, surprising though due to the nature of Thogal you would think those in the Mahamudra camp would have heard of it and been like "This is pretty epic, we should probably incorporate this" Lol


Malcolm wrote:
This discussion is not really appropriate. If you want to understand the difference you should endeavor to receive these instructions from qualified teachers.

CedarTree said:
I also think that there are many teachers not as knowledgeable about the different concepts and histories around those concepts as some of the posters like you and Kevin.  Just the reality, being able to understand your resource base, what you have studied, learn from you.  It's almost invaluable.


Malcolm wrote:
I understand the desire to learn about these things, but it is not about different concepts and histories, it is about experience and realization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 30th, 2017 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:
CedarTree said:
Are there any good internet resources, books, or so forth that explain the historical developments of both Mahamudra and Dzogchen?

Seems surprising that two of the higher teachings that developed in the same region wouldn't include parts of eachs teachings.  Including Thogal.

heart said:
It is the Tibetan obsession with keeping the lineages pure, one don't "develop" things as much as people believe.

/magnus

CedarTree said:
Ahh interesting, surprising though due to the nature of Thogal you would think those in the Mahamudra camp would have heard of it and been like "This is pretty epic, we should probably incorporate this" Lol


Malcolm wrote:
This discussion is not really appropriate. If you want to understand the difference you should endeavor to receive these instructions from qualified teachers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 29th, 2017 at 6:16 AM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:
CedarTree said:
A lot of the time we focus on how Mahamudra and Dzogchen are the same and have the same understanding.

I am curious what is different about them and what differences in understanding they have.


Malcolm wrote:
Thögal.

passel said:
Not a controversial statement- but I do recall reading in Essential Mahamudra- Thrangu Rinpoche’s commentary on the long Tashi Namgyal- a statement but Thrangu that the Mahamudra equivalent of Thogal is something called ‘lada’. I don’t speak Tibetan and haven’t come across this term elsewhere. So I wonder what he could have meant. There just wasn’t enough context in the passage to see what he was getting at.


Malcolm wrote:
la bzla ba, it means "to transcend."  This is merely a similarity in name, i.e. thod rgal as skipping stages.  In actuality however, the concept of la bzla ba also exists in Dzogchen, but it has a different usage, while meaning "to transcend".

I had a brief conversation about this issue with Ringu Tulku, based on some speculative statements he made in his book on the RIme Movement. However, in the end he stated to me that the difference between Dzogchen and Mahāmudra was thogal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 29th, 2017 at 4:11 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Astus said:
Furthermore, the point that is still left unaddressed is that a recommendation is not a requirement.

Malcolm wrote:
The Śūraṅgama-samādhi Sūtra states:

Those who seek the Dharma must rely on a virtuous mentor.

The Jayamati Sūtra states:

Those who desire the Dharma should rely on a virtuous mentor.

The Nirvana Sūtra states:

Son of a good family, all sentient beings are just the same — without serving a virtuous mentor, they will not perceive the nature of the Buddha.

And:

Those who do not know how to serve the virtuous mentor will not know the very secret tathāgatgarbha.

And:

One who does not rely on a virtuous mentor is a person who has not entered into the teaching of the Bhagavan Buddha, called "one with perverted craving." Such a person cannot be cured by the Bhagavan Buddha.

As I said, it is an imperative, not an option.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 29th, 2017 at 3:46 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, so what? You are still citing passages about what kind of associates one should have. Thus, they are entirely besides the point.

Astus said:
They are about the good friend one should have, or as you translated, the virtuous mentor, what is often simplified to the word teacher. Furthermore, the point that is still left unaddressed is that a recommendation is not a requirement.


Malcolm wrote:
I told you it is an imperative. Your citations are besides the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 29th, 2017 at 3:43 AM
Title: Re: Soul fragmentation and defragmentation as Buddism teaching?
Content:
Simon E. said:
Twins ( and earthworms ) are entirely separate individuals. Even identical twins have major differences in temperament and sometimes in ability.
As to earthworms I wonder whether you are referring to the myth that if cut in half they grow a new half..?
If so it IS a myth. The back end always dies quickly because it has no mouthparts.
The front half sometimes survives for a while if the wound heals successfully..but usually also dies quickly.

Fortyeightvows said:
I didn't know it was am myth, thanks.
But in the case of twins, they do split after conception, so....

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because two consciousnesses simultaneously are conceived in the same red and white elements, which then split the embryo due to vāyu. It is not a case where one consciousness splits into two.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 29th, 2017 at 3:37 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This is talking about associates, not teachers. It is therefore irrelevant.

Astus said:
The word translated as companion (sahāya) is a synonym for friend (mitta), as it's shown clearly in the same poem a few stanzas later where the "evil companion" (pāpaṃ sahāyaṃ) is opposed to the "eminent friend" (mittaṃ uḷāraṃ). There are also the Sigalovada Sutta (DN i.186) and the Meghiya Sutta (AN 9.3 / iv.357) where the two words are exchangeable.

"One should avoid an evil companion,
who shows what is harmful, one settled in 
unrighteousness.
One should not freely associate
with one who is intent and heedless;
one should live alone like a rhinoceros horn.

One should resort to the learned, a bearer of Dhamma,
an eminent friend gifted with ingenuity.
Having known the benefits and removed doubt,
one should live alone like a rhinoceros horn."
(Snp 1.3, tr Bhikkhu Bodhi, p 164-165)


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, so what? You are still citing passages about what kind of associates one should have. Thus, they are entirely besides the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 29th, 2017 at 2:00 AM
Title: Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
Content:



thomaslaw said:
Do you have samaya?

Thomas Amundsen said:
Yes.

thomaslaw said:
What it is?

Malcolm wrote:
It's like Fight Club, you do not talk about it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 29th, 2017 at 1:13 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:
Grigoris said:
Even Arhatship can require up to seven lives, from Stream Entry, to achieve.  So just because somebody SEEMS to have reached the state of Arhatship in one lifetime, doesn't mean that this is the case.

Malcolm wrote:
I said:
Apart from arhats, who attain total liberation in this present life, the Buddha defines the other three realized persons in relationship to how many lifetimes it would take them to achieve arhatship and where they take rebirth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 29th, 2017 at 12:32 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The quotes I provided are imperatives.

Astus said:
Imperatives are what one should do, it is the recommended way. A necessity, a need, is somewhat stronger and more restrictive.

"If one should find a judicious companion,
a fellow wanderer, of good behavior, resolute,
having overcome all obstacles, one should
live with him, satisfied and mindful.

But if one does not find a judicious companion,
a fellow wanderer, of good behavior, resolute,
like a king who has abandoned a conquered realm,
one should live alone like a rhinoceros horn.

Surely, we praised the excellence of companionship:
one should resort to companions one's equal or better.
Not obtaining these, as one who eats blamelessly
one should live alone like a rhinoceros horn."
(Snp 1.3, tr Bhikkhu Bodhi, p 163)

Malcolm wrote:
This is talking about associates, not teachers. It is therefore irrelevant.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 29th, 2017 at 12:17 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:



boda said:
What follows from it?

Malcolm wrote:
It makes Buddhadharma pointless.

boda said:
So we're back to [I'll just cut & paste]: Essentially, that non-traditional Buddhist metaphysics, such as what may exist within secular Buddhism, are lacking in meaning/efficacy.

There's no evidence to back up such claims so a good argument is needed to support them. No good arguments have been presented so far. Personally, I'd be very interested if any were presented.

Malcolm wrote:
Apart from arhats, who attain total liberation in this present life, the Buddha defines the other three realized persons in relationship to how many lifetimes it would take them to achieve arhatship and where they take rebirth.

Abandoning rebirth essentially means abandoning the whole framework of liberation the Buddha set out. That renders Buddhadharma meaningless.

Anyone who understands Buddhadharma understands this point and does not need it spelled out for them. Anyone who needs it spelled out for them does not understand Buddhadharma at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 11:54 PM
Title: Re: Mahamudra & Dzogchen - The differences
Content:
CedarTree said:
A lot of the time we focus on how Mahamudra and Dzogchen are the same and have the same understanding.

I am curious what is different about them and what differences in understanding they have.


Malcolm wrote:
Thögal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 11:46 PM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Necessary, not just beneficial.

Astus said:
The quotes you provided talked of the benefits and recommended having a good friend. Do you perhaps have some sources stating it as a necessity?

Malcolm wrote:
The quotes I provided are imperatives.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: Vajrayāna and the need to have complete Sense-Organs intact.
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
This question came up many years ago during a question and answer period during a dharma teaching weekend.
The teacher replied that all beings have the same potential, and that all who are able to learn and understand the teachings are able to practice vajrayana.

Malcolm wrote:
It has to do with the body mandala, nothing else.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 11:14 PM
Title: Re: Non-conceptual thoughts ... ?
Content:


Anonymous X said:
I didn't think they corresponded exactly. I was more interested in the theoretical progression of jhanas into the subsequent states leading to complete cessation of mind and how that might fit with Dzogchen models.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no correspondence at all. The Dhyānas are mental states, real Dzogchen practice is beyond mind from the beginning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 7:49 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:



Sonam Wangchug said:
Milarepa.jpg

Aryjna said:
Ah yes, I watched that a few years ago. I think there was supposed to be a second part but they didn't make one after all. Thanks.

Thomas Amundsen said:
This one's pretty cool. Tells the complete story, but in a very different style. It's more like an animated picture book with a soundtrack.


Malcolm wrote:
Led Zeppelin — hilarious.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 7:09 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana & philosophical background for Dzogchen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
And in particular stay away from the whole rang stong gzhan stong debate. It is completely irrelevant to Dzogchen.

Spelare said:
This is sort of a side question, but how is it that some people get the impression that it is relevant?  I was talking to someone recently whose view of emptiness is more from a Gelug perspective, and in his mind he associated Dzogchen with gzhan stong views.  It's not that I want to get bogged down in those debates; rather, I want to familiarize myself with the exit door.

Malcolm wrote:
It is because a small number of very recent masters of Dzogchen favored a version of that view at the sūtra level.

But when it comes to Dzogchen, sūtra views are irrelevant since they are a product of intellectual analysis and do not go beyond it.

Anyway, you just tell them that Longchenpa and Jigme Lingpa both proclaimed Prasanga Madhyamaka to be the view of Madhyamaka closest to the intention of Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 7:07 AM
Title: Re: Soul fragmentation and defragmentation as Buddism teaching?
Content:
ydnan321 said:
Sorry, I’m still stuck on this, would be grateful if anyone could provide explanation stating why multiplicity of animal rebirths is not possible using scripture or well-known master’s accounts/references? Links would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

YN

Malcolm wrote:
It is not possible. If you would do your own research, you will come to this conclusion and will have no further doubt about.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 7:06 AM
Title: Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel
Content:


The Cicada said:
Just look at the English word "love." How many of us can love like a "saint?"

Malcolm wrote:
If you have the feeling that you wish another happiness, this is precisely the love of a "saint."

If on the other hand, your "love" is principally concerned with desire and grasping, this is just a cause for more samsara.

The Cicada said:
Exactly. Easier said (or written) than done.

Malcolm wrote:
It is pretty easy to wish to others happiness. It is actually easier than the afflictive stuff. This is the Buddha's point about cultivating the four brahmaviharas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 6:52 AM
Title: Re: Unkindness at dharmawheel
Content:
Mantrik said:
What words are used in Pali, Sanskrit or Tibetan, I wonder, which we have interpreted with English words, the meaning of which we barely grasp and rarely share?

The Cicada said:
Just look at the English word "love." How many of us can love like a "saint?"

Malcolm wrote:
If you have the feeling that you wish another happiness, this is precisely the love of a "saint."

If on the other hand, your "love" is principally concerned with desire and grasping, this is just a cause for more samsara.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana & philosophical background for Dzogchen
Content:
Spelare said:
Any recommendations of particular texts or translations?  Currently in my library (most of these are committee translations by Padmakara or Dharmachakra):

Vasubandhu
Thirty Verses on Consciousness Only

Asanga/Maitreya
Uttaratantra Shastra (Buddha Nature)
Madhyantavibhaga (Middle Beyond Extremes)
Dharmadharmatavibhanga (Distinguishing Phenomena from their Intrinsic Nature)

Nagarjuna
Mulamadhyamakakarika (Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way)
Letter to a Friend

Chandrakirti
Madhyamakavatara (Introduction to the Middle Way)

Shantarakshita
Madhyamakalankara (The Adornment of the Middle Way)

Shantideva
Bodhicharyavatara (The Way of the Bodhisattva)

Malcolm wrote:
All good.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
However, the Buddha taught it was necessary to rely on a teacher.

Astus said:
Necessary/needed and beneficial/recommended are not the same.

Malcolm wrote:
Necessary, not just beneficial.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 6:16 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It is inapplicable because while the Buddha demonstrated the play of attaining buddhahood, in fact he did not attain buddhahood in that lifetime.

Astus said:
And the demonstration had a purpose, didn't it?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, for people of Hinayāna persuasion. However, the Buddha taught it was necessary to rely on a teacher. In the Samcayagathas is it said:

Just as a group of patients relies on medicine to be cured, 
one should rely unwaveringly upon a virtuous mentor.

In the Ratnamegha Sūtra, it is said:

Now then, since virtuous qualities will increase and nonvirtue will decline if one relies upon the guru, the preceptor [mkhan po, upādhyāyaḥ] will generate the thought of teaching those with greater or lesser hearing, or those with discipline or corrupted discipline.

In the Gandhāvyuha Sūtra it is said:

The virtuous mentor comprehends incorrect actions, correctly turns one away from shameless places, [12/a] extracts one from the city of samsara…Child of a good family, since one always thinks in that way, serve virtuous mentors.

And:


Child of a good family, since one is ill from karma and afflictions, generate the thought that one is a patient. Generate the thought that the virtuous mentor is a physician. Generate the thought that the Dharma instructions are the medicine. Generate the thought that one’s diligent practice of such Dharma will cure the illness […]

As did Maitreyanatha:

Rely on a virtuous mentor  who is disciplined, peaceful, pacified, 
diligent in the highest qualities, very learned,
understands the truth, eloquent, 
has a loving nature, and has abandoned regret.

And:

One should serve the virtuous mentor  
through veneration, wealth, attendance, and practice.

As did Nāgārjuna:

If you rely on those who
are content, compassionate, and disciplined, 
with discerning wisdom that removes afflictions,
through knowing them, give them respect.


And Śantideva:

The virtuous mentor 
skilled in the meaning of Mahāyāna and 
possessing the supreme disciplined conduct of a bodhisattva
should never be abandoned, even at the cost of one’s life.

Even the Three Hundred Verses on Vinaya states

Disciplined, knows the rites of Vinaya, 
loving towards the ill, has a pure retinue, 
diligent in giving assistance with Dharma and materials,
his instruction timely— such a guru is to be praised.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 6:04 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Astus said:
How so? The whole life of a nirmanakaya is for the education of beings. So it is not some accident that Siddhartha had no teacher, that one of the primary characteristics of a buddha is that it is he who turns the wheel of Dharma in a time when there is no Dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
It is inapplicable because while the Buddha demonstrated the play of attaining buddhahood, in fact he did not attain buddhahood in that lifetime.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 5:48 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana & philosophical background for Dzogchen
Content:
florin said:
In the end, understanding or not understanding, it doesn't matter a bit.

Malcolm wrote:
Typical sems sde extremism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 5:42 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana & philosophical background for Dzogchen
Content:


Boomerang said:
Why shouldn't Tibetan philosophers be studied?

Malcolm wrote:
It is not that they should not be studied, but if one is mainly interested in practice, becoming familiar with the intricacies of the debates between different Tibetan scholars is rather a large waste of time. They got involved in all kinds of debates which really are not germane to the main issues the Indian masters were explicating.

This is less of a problem when reviewing the works of pre-14th Century Tibetan scholars.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 5:24 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana & philosophical background for Dzogchen
Content:
Spelare said:
I feel that it might be beneficial to study some non-tantric texts that are relevant to Dzogchen.  My current knowledge is based mainly on tertiary sources and relatively concise explanations by lamas in the context of short retreats.  In figuring out what comes next, I've decided I should probably read some primary texts with their commentaries by Dzogchen masters of the Nyingma or Rimé tradition.  I already have access to some commentaries written by Mipham Rinpoche on texts concerning emptiness and buddha-nature, for example, but I don't know the best order in which to proceed.  I also have the Padma Samye Ling Shedra series books on Madhyamaka and Rangtong/Shentong views.  There's so much out there, though: commentaries on commentaries on commentaries . . .

In your experience as a Dzogchen practitioner, can such study be helpful?  If so, how?  Which texts have been most helpful to you or are recognized as important in this regard?


Malcolm wrote:
Study Indian masters, not Tibetans. Nāgārjuna, Śantideva, Vasubandhu, Asanga, and so. And in particular stay away from the whole rang stong gzhan stong debate. It is completely irrelevant to Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 5:22 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:



boda said:
I thought it would be most fruitful to first try identifying the primary point of contention. You give no indication that I've been successful in this first step.

Malcolm wrote:
The primary point of contention is their rejection of rebirth, and all that follows from it.

boda said:
What follows from it?

Malcolm wrote:
It makes Buddhadharma pointless.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 5:14 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
All kinds of buddhas.

Astus said:
I specifically asked Siddhartha, as within the context of that life.

Malcolm wrote:
The question is inapplicable to nirmanakāyas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 5:13 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:



boda said:
I thought it would be most fruitful to first try identifying the primary point of contention. You give no indication that I've been successful in this first step.

Malcolm wrote:
The primary point of contention is their rejection of rebirth, and all that follows from it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 4:50 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:



boda said:
So if I were to construct an argument it would be based on the basic proposition that secular Buddhist metaphysics are analogous to the traditional and therefore no less potentially meaningful or potent.

Malcolm wrote:
There are no "secular Buddhist metaphysics"  because it is a contradiction in terms.

boda said:
How so?

Malcolm wrote:
The whole point of what is called "Secular Buddhism" is to eschew  the metaphysics found in Buddhism altogether.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


Astus said:
Bodhisattvas learn from countless buddhas. But who was the teacher of Siddhartha Gautama?

Malcolm wrote:
All kinds of buddhas. Of course, one needs to understand that as a nirmanakāya, the Buddha's career here was merely play.

But in a real sense, in the last mahākalpa, when the Buddha was a young man named Generous Hand, he had a teacher named Virtuous Wisdom.  Generous Hand attained buddhahood, and in this eon, it is out of his buddhahood that the three kāyas and the 1002 Buddhas of the Fortunate Eon emanate, including Buddha Śākyamuni, who is the fourth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 4:32 AM
Title: Re: Vajrayāna and the need to have complete Sense-Organs intact.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You can receive the empowerments, but since your body mandala is incomplete, one cannot practice creation and completion.

Yanako said:
So only being blind or deaf is important or that's also the case for partial blindness or deafness, lacking more "minor" senses like taste and smell and mutilations not involving sensorial loss?
"incomplete body mandala" sounds a bit vague to me so I really don't know how to draw the line between complete and incomplete and I have no found anything about that on Internet so an explanation would be nice.
Thanks for your help.

Malcolm wrote:
If you are born lacking limbs, sight, etc., this is what is meant.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 4:29 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:



boda said:
So if I were to construct an argument it would be based on the basic proposition that secular Buddhist metaphysics are analogous to the traditional and therefore no less potentially meaningful or potent.

Malcolm wrote:
There are no "secular Buddhist metaphysics"  because it is a contradiction in terms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 3:07 AM
Title: Re: Vajrayāna and the need to have complete Sense-Organs intact.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
With respect to having complete sense organs intact, if one does not, for example, it makes one unsuitable to be a Vajrayāna practitioner.

Yanako said:
What does having complete sense organs intact means in that context?

Are you unable to become a Vajrayāna practitionner if you are blind or deaf?

Malcolm wrote:
You can receive the empowerments, but since your body mandala is incomplete, one cannot practice creation and completion.

However, in Dzogchen there are methods for people who are blind and/or deaf.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 2:36 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:



Aryjna said:
I have only read the Tsangnyon Heruka version, but regardless of whether it is truthful or not the movie would be entertaining i think.

I would like to read the one written by Gampopa but I assume it has not been translated because I remember there being only two similar versions available in English.


Malcolm wrote:
Read the Biography of Rechungpa by Peter Alan Roberts. It clarifies these details in bold relief.

Aryjna said:
What about Shabkar's biography? Do you think Matthieu Ricard's translation is a good choice, or is there a better option?

Malcolm wrote:
Shabkar's bio is great. But it is not related to the present point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 2:09 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
conebeckham said:
Find me a Buddha who reached nirvana without a teacher.

Astus said:
Being a buddha...means awakening on one's own, without a teacher...

Malcolm wrote:
Only in Hinayāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:



Tenma said:
If that's the case, then that would mean Milarepa is real, is he not?  Guru Rinpoche "supposedly" bound a bunch of "spirits and deities" of some mountains and performed some miracles such as being burned alive and transforming the fire into a lake.  If that's real, then how is Milarepa's tale not real?  Explain.

Malcolm wrote:
Which letter in "legend" did you not understand? These people were real. The deeds attributed them are largely legend.

Tenma said:
So who were they in reality if their deeds are fiction?

Malcolm wrote:
People about whom we know virtually nothing in a historical sense.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 28th, 2017 at 1:09 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:



Aryjna said:
Which movie is that?


Malcolm wrote:
The modern life of Milarepa is based on a fictionalized account written in the 16th century which has no support at all in the biography of Milarepa written by Gampopa (in fact the former contradicts the latter point by point on many critical details). It is however quite a dramatic tale, even if it is completely false with respect to the actual details of Milarepa's life, no doubt a gem of Tibetan fantasy literature. You can consider it about as veridical as the story of George Washington cutting down a cherry tree.

Aryjna said:
I have only read the Tsangnyon Heruka version, but regardless of whether it is truthful or not the movie would be entertaining i think.

I would like to read the one written by Gampopa but I assume it has not been translated because I remember there being only two similar versions available in English.


Malcolm wrote:
Read the Biography of Rechungpa by Peter Alan Roberts. It clarifies these details in bold relief.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 11:51 PM
Title: Re: Passing of Losang Tsering/Dechen Ling
Content:
Ayu said:
Does Dechen Ling Press still work and sell books?

Malcolm wrote:
As I understand it, David Gonzalez's books and translations  are being taken over by Wisdom.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
Next the life story of Buddha isn't going to be anything positive for "modern students" because people could misconstrue it and neglectfully abandon their families. Oy vey.

Malcolm wrote:
While it is certainly the case that the Buddha did not leave his family in a state of abject poverty, he violated certain norms of Indian life by becoming a mendicant renunciate long before completing his social duty as a family man.

pael said:
Did the Buddha cremate his father?

Malcolm wrote:
I am not sure if he attended his father's funeral. Good question.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:


boda said:
Essentially, that non-traditional Buddhist metaphysics, such as what may exist within secular Buddhism, are lacking in meaning/efficacy.

Malcolm wrote:
Which nontraditional metaphysics?

boda said:
I believe the point of secularity is not being confined to any particular metaphysical beliefs.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the point of secularity is that one religious tradition cannot impose its beliefs via the medium of the state apparatus. There is no secular Buddhism, per se, merely people who would like to promulgate wrong view under the rubric of Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 10:54 PM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:
Sonam Wangchug said:
As well as the present Neten chokling rinpoche who made a movie about the life of Milarepa.

Aryjna said:
Which movie is that?


Malcolm wrote:
The modern life of Milarepa is based on a fictionalized account written in the 16th century which has no support at all in the biography of Milarepa written by Gampopa (in fact the former contradicts the latter point by point on many critical details). It is however quite a dramatic tale, even if it is completely false with respect to the actual details of Milarepa's life, no doubt a gem of Tibetan fantasy literature. You can consider it about as veridical as the story of George Washington cutting down a cherry tree.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 10:51 PM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
Next the life story of Buddha isn't going to be anything positive for "modern students" because people could misconstrue it and neglectfully abandon their families. Oy vey.

Malcolm wrote:
While it is certainly the case that the Buddha did not leave his family in a state of abject poverty, he violated certain norms of Indian life by becoming a mendicant renunciate long before completing his social duty as a family man.

Thus, the scenario which you pain above actually happened. In response, the Buddha began to insist that to become ordained as a member of the Buddhist Sangha, one needed the permission of one's parents, that one be free from debt, etc. Men were deserting their wives and families in droves in order to join the Sangha, especially his fellow tribesman, the Śākyas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 2:17 PM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:
Tenma said:
Then isn't Guru Rinpoche fiction as well?

Malcolm wrote:
Guru Rinpoche was a real person, with a mother and a father. There are several versions of his life story.

The earliest one is found in the 'Bum nag Vajrakilaya commentary, commonly attributed to Yeshe Tsogyal.

But the writings on his life in general cannot be construed as history in the way in which we understand the term. We should understand them as legend.

Tenma said:
If that's the case, then that would mean Milarepa is real, is he not?  Guru Rinpoche "supposedly" bound a bunch of "spirits and deities" of some mountains and performed some miracles such as being burned alive and transforming the fire into a lake.  If that's real, then how is Milarepa's tale not real?  Explain.

Malcolm wrote:
Which letter in "legend" did you not understand? These people were real. The deeds attributed them are largely legend.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 2:16 PM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
The point is that these stories have provided students throughout the centuries inspiration and insight in relating with their own teachers and practice.

Malcolm wrote:
The point is that these stories do not offer anything positive for modern students. When Western Vajrayana practitioners vigorously defend stories about Naropa handing over his girlfriend to Tilopa, or Drukpa Kunley having sex with his mother and so on, it actually makes them look like sycophantic sociopaths. These kinds of tales are certainly titillating for certain kinds of disturbed people, but they are actually disgusting. There is nothing redeeming about them at all, not even symbolically. They are not skillful. Moreover, there is absolutely no reason why we should continue to relate these tales, they are not useful to anyone.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 1:22 PM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:
Tenma said:
Then isn't Guru Rinpoche fiction as well?

Malcolm wrote:
Guru Rinpoche was a real person, with a mother and a father. There are several versions of his life story.

The earliest one is found in the 'Bum nag Vajrakilaya commentary, commonly attributed to Yeshe Tsogyal.

But the writings on his life in general cannot be construed as history in the way in which we understand the term. We should understand them as legend.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 1:18 PM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
We know there are outrageous stories of many guru's occurring down to the present time, the Kagyus have no trade mark on that.

Malcolm wrote:
Not particularly impressed with outrageous stories.

Sonam Wangchug said:
Will you also deny the outrageous behavior of masters who have lived in the past 150 years? Teachers who have behaved like Marpa are not all that rare, I have heard a Khampa lama tell me that they prefer wrathful lama's in fact.

Malcolm wrote:
The earliest bios of Marpa and Mila do not portray them in particularly outrageous terms. For example, in the earliest bio of Mila by Gampopa there is no mention of any of the famous stories of Marpa giving Mila a hard time.

Sonam Wangchug said:
To write off the kagyu lineage stories as something which is just a fiction propagating Vajrayana sadomasochism is ridiculous.

Malcolm wrote:
Quite frankly, Tsangnyon Heruka's bio of Milarepa is so unreliable as to be nothing more than fiction.


Sonam Wangchug said:
I cannot say what milarepa did and didn't do as I was not around. However Milarepa is not someone merely to be found in texts, many, many masters have had visions of Milarepa, and Milarepa continues till this day to bless practitioners.

Malcolm wrote:
Milarepa was a great practitioner. Maybe he attained buddhahood, maybe not. For example, Khenpo Appey was of the opinion that Mila did not attain complete buddhahood. YMMV.

Sonam Wangchug said:
What the stories have done have motivated countless practitioners in the past to enter into retreat and achieve realization. Almost every tshampa is familiar with those stories, and some own only the songs of Milarepa as their sole guide and book. Milarepa is one of the masters who is respected by all of the various lineages, which is something rare.

Malcolm wrote:
The point is that Marpa's mistreatment of Mila is fiction, not attested to in the earliest bios.

We have every reason to believe that most namthars are subject to such pious exaggerations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 11:25 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
However, it would seem such 'abusive' tactics also can work to transmit the essence of Dzogchen, As in the famous case with Dza patrul rinpoche and his Lama Do khyentse yeshe dorje.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course, the story of Marpa treating Milarepa abusively is pure fiction, elaborated centuries after the fact by Tsangnyon Heruka. It never happened. You might want to take a look at Peter Alan Roberts life of Rechungpa. Likewise, the twelve trials of Naropa are pure fiction.

With respect to Patrul Rinpoche, being spit at is an interesting way to receive introduction, but not especially outrageous.

The point of course is that these traditional stories of the Kagyus, even though they never happened, are being used over and over again to motivate students to accept any behavior of any guru as justified. And that is just plain sick bullshit. But you are free -- if you think being abused and shat upon is going to cause you to understand the nature of the mind more rapidly, go for it. Good luck with that. And if you understand already the nature of the mind without such extreme measures, what is the point of glorifying them? As far as I can tell, this is just a kind of Vajrayāna sado-masochistic machismo.

Tenma said:
What about the penis lord, Drukpa Kunley?

Malcolm wrote:
Fiction


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 10:29 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
However, it would seem such 'abusive' tactics also can work to transmit the essence of Dzogchen, As in the famous case with Dza patrul rinpoche and his Lama Do khyentse yeshe dorje.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course, the story of Marpa treating Milarepa abusively is pure fiction, elaborated centuries after the fact by Tsangnyon Heruka. It never happened. You might want to take a look at Peter Alan Roberts life of Rechungpa. Likewise, the twelve trials of Naropa are pure fiction.

With respect to Patrul Rinpoche, being spit at is an interesting way to receive introduction, but not especially outrageous.

The point of course is that these traditional stories of the Kagyus, even though they never happened, are being used over and over again to motivate students to accept any behavior of any guru as justified. And that is just plain sick bullshit. But you are free -- if you think being abused and shat upon is going to cause you to understand the nature of the mind more rapidly, go for it. Good luck with that. And if you understand already the nature of the mind without such extreme measures, what is the point of glorifying them? As far as I can tell, this is just a kind of Vajrayāna sado-masochistic machismo.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 7:57 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:
TharpaChodron said:
Do you think the whole Dakini persona identification that some, insofar as I'm aware Western, female practitioners engage in is a bit of wishful thinking?

Malcolm wrote:
In general, I find there is a lot of weird fantasy tripping in which Vajrayāna practitioners in the West engage. They range from the masochistic, "Tilopa tortured Naropa so if my guru beat me he loves me" to the inflated  "I am a sexy, powerful daka/dakini, see how sexy and powerful I am?"

It is all the more odd, because the pinnacle of Vajrayāna, the Great Perfection, has virtually no use for this kind if inflationary thinking. None of the siddhas in the Great Perfection lineage were subjected to the kinds of training we find recounted in the stories of Naropa, Mila, and so on. This Vajrayāna masochism really seems to be a huge Kagyu trip, more than anything.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 7:35 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
As I said, you cannot learn the Dharma from books. You need a teacher.

Astus said:
If it is as you say, what is the role of all the scriptures, treatises, etc.?

Malcolm wrote:
I already explained this to you. Reading is part of reflecting on the Dharma, the second wisdom. All those texts you mention, however, are meant to be heard first.

However, you were so busy looking up citations, you failed to pay attention. So, more hearing for you!


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 6:33 AM
Title: Re: How to (try to) resolve family conflict?
Content:



Bum said:
I would really like to hear your own opinions on the following - in what way I could give advice and make my wife realize she should forgive herself, forgive her sister, establish some borders and not feel worthless because, probably, the relationship she wanted to have with her sister will probably never happen?

Malcolm wrote:
Dharma can never be used to change others. It can only be used to change oneself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 5:57 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In order to teach Dharma to people, you have to understand what they need. That means you have to get to know them. Getting to know them takes time. It means you have to be able to enter into the dimension of the person and understand what is beneficial to them. That is not likely to happen on an internet forum.


dzogchungpa said:
Or on a webcast, I might add.

Malcolm wrote:
Webcasts were never/are not intended to substitute for going to see ChNN personally. And if you have questions about your practice, your progress, you can always either ask Rinpoche personally at a retreat, or send him an email.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 5:55 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
As for the rest of his statement, he is merely being kind. But it is not to be taken very seriously.

Astus said:
He discusses the "dictates of the Sugatas" at an earlier section, in the context of the four types of guru as a prerequisite for mahamudra.

"In short, the basic instructions of meditation cannot be gained simply through reading books, or [by figuring it out by oneself, or from unqualified teachers without authentic lineage.]
However, while relying upon the root guru, the personal guru who holds the lineage
(p 25-26)


Malcolm wrote:
As I said, you cannot learn the Dharma from books. You need a teacher.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 5:26 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Punya said:
Malcolm said:

The main point however is that one cannot receive the Dharma by reading books. One must hear the Dharma from living teachers.
Agreed!

Malcolm wrote:
Well that's good!


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 5:05 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The main point however is that one cannot receive the Dharma by reading books. One must hear the Dharma from living teachers.

Astus said:
"Of course if you have someone to teach the texts to you, that is best.
(Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche: Pointing Out the Dharmakaya, p 157, 158)

Malcolm wrote:
As for the rest of his statement, he is merely being kind. But it is not to be taken very seriously.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 5:00 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


Vasana said:
Fair enough, I can appreciate the reasoning there a lot. I still think there is the issue of skillfull means and knowing how best to modify our response and tone when speaking with different people.

Malcolm wrote:
What happens here is sharing; no teaching happens here at all.

In order to teach Dharma to people, you have to understand what they need. That means you have to get to know them. Getting to know them takes time. It means you have to be able to enter into the dimension of the person and understand what is beneficial to them. That is not likely to happen on an internet forum.

The same goes for popular Dharma books. People read them, and feel the author is speaking to them personally. Pema Chodron's mind training books are among the most popular books ever sold. But books are not teachers. Books cannot understand you. Books cannot respond to your questions. It is not that books are a poor substitute for a Dharma teacher, they are no substitute at all.

In fact, people tend to read "Dharma" books which reinforce their predilections and biases, preferring popular "Dharma" titles which appeal to people's vanity, egotism, and insecurity. Meanwhile, venerable classics languish on shelves, never opened. I mean, just look at the whole slew of books out there which paint Vajrayāna as the triple black diamond ski slope of religious paths, obviously marketed for those who are into spiritual extreme sports.

Dharma only lives in the interaction between the teacher and the student, based on what the student actually needs for their practice, not what they imagine they need for their practice. Once the student has reflected on and cultivated the meaning in realization, they too can act as teachers for others, but not before.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 4:12 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Vasana said:
By all means, a teacher is always the best route to go, but I think it's an extreme position to suggest that reading teachings one has not heard in person is not beneficial just because you read various texts for 5 years before hearing them.

Malcolm wrote:
How long have you been in the Dharma? The longer in you are, the more you will come to appreciate my words on this subject. It's hard to tell starving people they should eat slowly. But if they do not eat slowly, they get very bad indigestion and throw up. Receiving Dharma teachings is like that.

If one understands how important it is to hear the Dharma, then one will make efforts to do so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 4:00 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Just to play devil's advocate:

While I certainly agree with the premise of the thread, I think sometimes people (*cough* some DW "elders") are way too quick to use "find a teacher" as a knee jerk dismissal of questions they are annoyed with answering on DW, rather than as an appropriate suggestion. Sometimes people have questions that are quite valid, for which they do not need to go out and find a new teacher. Those sorts of questions are definitely  a minority of these threads, but they do exist.

Vasana said:
Agreed.

Malcolm wrote:
"Find a teacher" is never a dismissal of a question. In fact, it is generally the most responsible answer.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 3:59 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Punya said:
Just because the method of delivery doesn't appeal to you, doesn't mean the right messages aren't getting through to some of us.

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, watered down western pop psychology from the 70's just isn't my bag and I don't get anything from it at all. YMMV.

The main point however is that one cannot receive the Dharma by reading books. One must hear the Dharma from living teachers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 3:44 AM
Title: Re: My past posts here were egotisical and argumentative
Content:
Simon E. said:
Let me see if I have got this right.
In order to show a new found humility, you are posting on a Forum that exists to discuss The Buddha's Dharma..a teaching that denies the existence of God, in order to honour that God.
Is that correct?

KarmaOcean said:
Good point. I suppose I'm not really doing any "honouring". How could I do that when honour belongs to God?
I suppose it's more a case of paying tribute to God and admitting I was egotisical and argumentative.

Malcolm wrote:
No offense, but we really don't care. There is no God in Buddhadharma, we don't believe in your God (or anyone else's) so from our point of view if you are not apologizing to us, you might as well be apologizing to the wall.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 3:34 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Punya said:
Malcolm:

When you do, Grasshopper, you will understand there is no happiness in samsara at all.
It is because of DJKR that his students understand this. Please stop misrepresenting him.

Malcolm wrote:
I didn't misrepresent him at all. I do think that Dzongsar, Sogyal, and many other Asian Dharma teachers have adopted a lot of 70's era pop psychology via Trungpa that they use with their Western students, because somehow they think we respond to it. Some of us may, I sure don't.

Messing with people's "egos" is not the same thing as helping people overcome the innate habit of I-making.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
To be, or not to be - that is the question.

Malcolm wrote:
From the point of view of Dharma, it is not a question at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
Certainly. But no, I don’t accept that version of the first noble truth. If there were not even an iota of happiness in samsara we wouldn’t even know what it was. Sickness old age and death don’t mean there is not even a pinhead of happiness in samsara.

Malcolm wrote:
This is one reason why you need to hear the Dharma, not just cherry pick. A good Dharma teacher will not let you wiggle out of uncomfortable topics. This is not about "confronting your ego," or other pop psychology memes Asian Buddhist teachers like Dzongsar and Sogyal have picked up from Trungpa as an excuse to mess with people, it is about helping you understand that there is no refuge in samsara at all — none.

Put simply, you do not understand the three kinds of suffering. When you do, Grasshopper, you will understand there is no happiness in samsara at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 2:59 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
What’s the characteristic of dharma that prevents it from being studied in the context of a university whereas history, political science, etc, can be studied like hat.

Malcolm wrote:
Professors, to put it plainly, are not Dharma teachers. Moreover, most of those attending an undergraduate course in Buddhism are interested in credits, not Dharma.

Professors cannot, apart from in a private Buddhist University, advocate for this religion over that one as it violates constraints about separation of Church and State.

I recall Malcolm David Eckel (at Harvard at the time) during a visit to his office sharing with me his great relief that he was a Christian, and not a Buddhist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 2:53 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
I can’t accept the world is a lost cause like that. Anyway we’re drifting into my own hang ups so

Malcolm wrote:
This is because you have not spent enough time listening to, then reflecting on, and finally cultivating, the topic of the faults of samsara. Therefore, you have not realized there isn't even a pinhead of happiness in samsara.

Your questions, all of them, are a direct reflection of your "hang ups."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 2:51 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
I’m starting to understand your (Malcolm’s) distaste for the modern university, academics, peer-reviewed study, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't have "distaste" for these things. I like the fact that being published by Shambhala or Wisdom means that one's books have been peer-reviewed.

However, if anyone thinks they are reading about the Dharma when they read a Buddhist studies PhD candidate's dissertation, they are kidding themselves.

The modern university setting is just fine if one wishes to become expert in the opinions of westerners about the history of Buddhism; but it won't inform one's practice of Dharma even slightly.

And of course, peer-review excludes review of one's work by so-called "native" experts.

PuerAzaelis said:
So what’s the difference between, say, that and history, or political science, or etc..

Malcolm wrote:
Are you asking "What is the difference between Buddhist studies in the Western Academy and the study of history, political science?" If that is your question, the reply is, virtually nothing apart from the subject matter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 2:49 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
PS: the ultimate democracy and empowerment is education and literacy


Malcolm wrote:
I am all for education and literacy. In Dharma, that means getting off your ass and going and hearing the Dharma in person. Dharma is a preliterate tradition, it did not transform into a literate tradition just because people decided to use writing, considered a very base form of communication in ancient India, to record sutras, etc., so they would not be forgotten.

PuerAzaelis said:
Little different in the West- you could argue that base form of communication liberated the world from bondage to the church

Malcolm wrote:
Even in your much vaunted "West," Dharma will continue to an aural tradition, something which must be heard from a teacher. Reading books simply is not a substitute for hearing the Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Class, lifespan, wealth, etc., are all determined by one's karma.

PuerAzaelis said:
Sure, which we can change. And help each other to change. Which means there are no rules and regulations, our assistance does no have to be circumscribed by any particular means.

Malcolm wrote:
We cannot change these things in any samsaric way unless we continue to cultivate roots of virtue. And since those roots of virtue are contaminated, they are not permanent.

Buddhadharma in general — whether we are talking about Hinayāna or Dzogchen— is fundamentally about eradicating the causes for the addiction of rebirth. It does not matter much how we manage that, just so long as we do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 2:42 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
PS: the ultimate democracy and empowerment is education and literacy


Malcolm wrote:
I am all for education and literacy. In Dharma, that means getting off your ass and going and hearing the Dharma in person. Dharma is a preliterate tradition, it did not transform into a literate tradition just because people decided to use writing, considered a very base form of communication in ancient India, to record sutras, etc., so they would not be forgotten.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
Sure. Extremely.

Malcolm wrote:
Class, lifespan, wealth, etc., are all determined by one's karma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
I’m starting to understand your (Malcolm’s) distaste for the modern university, academics, peer-reviewed study, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't have "distaste" for these things. I like the fact that being published by Shambhala or Wisdom means that one's books have been peer-reviewed.

However, if anyone thinks they are reading about the Dharma when they read a Buddhist studies PhD candidate's dissertation, they are kidding themselves.

The modern university setting is just fine if one wishes to become expert in the opinions of westerners about the history of Buddhism; but it won't inform one's practice of Dharma even slightly.

And of course, peer-review excludes review of one's work by so-called "native" experts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 2:33 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
Not trusting the peasants to be literate sounds like just another Mahayana anachronism to me.

Malcolm wrote:
You seem to be worried about class and hierarchy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: Pointing out only 3 times?
Content:
csmorg96 said:
I recently read a teaching from a well respected teacher of dzogchen that states that a guru can only attempt to point out the nature of mind to a given disciple three times. Can anyone shed some light on why this teacher makes this claim? Have I misunderstood something?

Malcolm wrote:
Really, what is the book in which this claim was made?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 1:46 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
That really narrows it down.

PuerAzaelis said:
Lol, I just don’t get the hyper-Catholicism. cone, you just said you can’t even be taught refuge from a text. Even the basics need oral teaching, like the four dharma seals, four immeasurables? I don’t mean to be rude but that seems crazy.

Malcolm wrote:
You can't be taught "going for refuge" from a text. "Going for refuge" means that you understand you are unable to extricate yourself from the floodwaters of samsara under your own power. When you understand this, you get off your ass and go for refuge, that means going and hearing the Dharma from a human being.

And yes, even the basics need to be heard. This is why I spent a year hearing Abhidharma, another year hearing Madhyamaka, yet another year hearing Lamrim, a year hearing tenet systems, etc., and 25 years hearing Dzogchen and other Vajrayāna teachings, over and over again, often the same topics.

Sitting respectfully and listening to another human being explain the Dharma simply cannot be matched by reading books alone in one's room, arm akimbo, feet up, snacks in hand, listening to one's favorite music.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Queequeg said:
Now the Blessed One spoke to the Venerable Ananda, saying: "It may be, Ananda, that to some among you the thought will come: 'Ended is the word of the Master; we have a Master no longer.' But it should not, Ananda, be so considered. For that which I have proclaimed and made known as the Dhamma and the Discipline, that shall be your Master when I am gone.
Mahaparinibbana Sutta

Malcolm wrote:
In that particular assembly, there was no one who was less than a stream entrant, meaning they had directly perceived the taste of liberation. In the Eastern Gatehouse Sutta:

"Excellent, Sariputta. Excellent. Those who have not known, seen, penetrated, realized, or attained it by means of discernment would have to take it on conviction in others that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation; whereas those who have known, seen, penetrated, realized, & attained it by means of discernment would have no doubt or uncertainty that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation."

Taking it on conviction in others means seeking out a teacher and hearing the Dharma from them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 1:30 AM
Title: Re: Chomsky's Requiem for the American Dream - free ebook today
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Thanks for mentioning this. Time for some serious intellectual masturbation.

Malcolm wrote:
Remember to use tissue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 1:29 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
Consequently, Mahayana becomes perpetual politics and sectarianism. That is what “we see here at Dharma Wheel”.

Malcolm wrote:
To whom or to what post is this being addressed?

PuerAzaelis said:
Everyone, the topic.

Malcolm wrote:
That really narrows it down.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 1:19 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
The fact that sola scriptura could only be a joke around here says something about Mahayana.

Malcolm wrote:
It can't work in Mahāyāna at all. Too many scriptura.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 1:16 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
Consequently, Mahayana becomes perpetual politics and sectarianism. That is what “we see here at Dharma Wheel”.

Malcolm wrote:
To whom or to what post is this being addressed?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
markatex said:
In general, I would agree, though I don't follow Zen or Tibetan Buddhism, both of which place a far greater emphasis on it than the Nichiren tradition. There's this tendency to turn Buddhism into a completely solitary practice where one just reads books and visits Internet forums and then people end up more or less making things up as they go along and never really challenging themselves. We don't have anything like gurus in Nichiren Buddhism, and lay people don't enter formal student-disciple relationships, so I don't want to overstate the case. There's no "special transmission outside the scriptures." But without some kind of guidance, there's a tendency to just confirm your own prejudices in a solitary practice and you never really get anywhere.

Malcolm wrote:
Chapter 13 of the Saddharmapundarika states:
The wise generate devotion to the guru.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: Dead Root Guru?
Content:



javier.espinoza.t said:
and why is it called most important?


Malcolm wrote:
You know why.

javier.espinoza.t said:
it has the same significance in Vajrayana system?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. The term "mūlaguru," tsawey lama, root guru comes from Vajrayāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: Dead Root Guru?
Content:
javier.espinoza.t said:
what do "root" means?

Malcolm wrote:
Most important.

javier.espinoza.t said:
and why is it called most important?


Malcolm wrote:
You know why.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 12:05 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:


boda said:
Essentially, that non-traditional Buddhist metaphysics, such as what may exist within secular Buddhism, are lacking in meaning/efficacy.

Malcolm wrote:
Which nontraditional metaphysics?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 12:03 AM
Title: Re: Dead Root Guru?
Content:
javier.espinoza.t said:
what do "root" means?

Malcolm wrote:
Most important.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 27th, 2017 at 12:02 AM
Title: Re: Dead Root Guru?
Content:
TharpaChodron said:
but they are never really gone from us.  Am I right or am I wrong?

Malcolm wrote:
You are correct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 26th, 2017 at 11:59 PM
Title: Re: Mingyur Rinpoche : The Importance of Retreat
Content:
TharpaChodron said:
But what about the importance of leaving retreat and engaging beneficially in Samsara.  Is it somewhat important or not at all?

Malcolm wrote:
Samsara is also there in retreat, magnified quite intensely.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 26th, 2017 at 11:52 PM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I didn't hear the Dharma until I went to hear Sakya Trizin teach the Dharma in 1989. After that experience, I understood the necessity of hearing the Dharma.

kirtu said:
Hearing Dharma from a qualified lama/teacher is the decisive turning point.  It is like the teacher turns a light on.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. This is true.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 26th, 2017 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:


Mantrik said:
Reading is amazingly useful, and can inform us, motivate us etc.  But it is secondary to Dharma instruction from a Guru, and that is the core.

Vasana said:
This is the party line you learn when you have already met a Guru. What about for newcomers who are still exploring dharma 101 in their favoured tradition and have not yet developed certainty that they want to attend teachings in person? What about when a person wants to practice a tradition with no corresponding sangha available to them? Not trying to be difficult here I just think that many 'well-seasoned' practitioners are already so familiar with the dharma that it can be easy for them to forget what it was like when they were first dabbling which can make it harder to then consider what it may be like for different people with different circumstances, be they inner or outer.

I'm not advocating newcomers go it alone but that some ammount of self-led exploration obviously has it's value up to a certain point.

Malcolm wrote:
My personal experience is that having spent five years studying on my own, reading voraciously, even attending college courses on Buddhism with Malcolm David Eckel, etc., I didn't hear the Dharma until I went to hear Sakya Trizin teach the Dharma in 1989. After that experience, I understood the necessity of hearing the Dharma. So I then heard Madhyamaka, Lamrim, Abhidharma, Lamdre, Mahāmudra, Dzogchen, and so on. I have received the lung for all of the texts I have published or will publish.

It is apparent in how people post and talk about the Dharma on this forum whether they have heard the Dharma, or are merely reading Dharma texts without having heard them in a proper way.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 26th, 2017 at 3:28 PM
Title: Re: Vipasyana Meditation
Content:
Anonymous X said:
And, why does no one here refer to the Mahasatipattana Sutta for instruction in Vipassana practice? The Buddha, in his own words, lays it out. Is it not the proper place to start to learn about it?


Malcolm wrote:
Wrong kind of vipaśyanā.

The kind of vipaśyanā proper to Māhayāna is referred to in the Akṣayamati-nirdeśa:

"The consciousness that perceives the entry into reality is called "vipaśyanā." So-called vipaśyanā is perceiving phenomena correctly, perceiving phenomena as they are, perceiving phenomena truly, and perceiving phenomena as not otherwise, perceiving phenomena as empty, without characteristics, without aspiration, perceiving phenomena to be unformed, likewise, nonarisen, unproduced, insubstantial, just as they are, pure, and as isolated. It is perceiving phenomena as unmoving, inactive, without self, wholly without grasping, inseparable, one taste, as the nature of space, and nirvana by nature," etc.

Anonymous X said:
There are many suttas that say the same thing.

Malcolm wrote:
There are no suttas that say the same thing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 26th, 2017 at 3:26 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Vasana said:
Where do hearing and reading overlap?

If you read some dharma and really get the message of a particular aspect of the teaching , how is that different from hearing it other than the absence of sound waves?

Granted some things must really be heard in real time since the dharma is dialogic but if all humans had to attend real-time dharma teachings on every topic before seeing any genuine progress in addressing samsara, afflictions and suffering etc, many people wouldn't get past that first hurdle.


Mantrik said:
Perhaps it is the difference between understanding Scripture and understanding Dharma.

I can read and understand how to drive a car, but it can't match having the instructor giving me directions.

Vasana said:
Would you say that applies to all teachings with absolutely no exception? What about when a person is still in an early introductory phase of their exploration of the dharma? Will absolutely all books/recordings have no value until a face to face encounter can occur?

I expanded my orignal reply above;

Maybe for the purpose of this thread it would be useful to explore which dharma tenets can be approached from books and videos effectively and which topics when approached without a teacher are ineffective.
And then supposing someone establishes a formal or informal student/ teacher relationship, How much exposure to that spiritual freind is considered a minimum requiremen for books and non-living explanations of dharma to then 'become' useful?

Malcolm wrote:
Without hearing the Dharma from a qualified teacher, one will not understand what one is reading. We see evidence of this here on Dharmawheel every day.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 26th, 2017 at 2:47 AM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Your citations do not support your point.
No they don't.

Astus said:
"Those who grasp at emptiness slander the Sutras by maintaining that written words have no use. Since they maintain they have no need of written words, they should not speak either, because written words are merely the marks of spoken language. They also maintain that the direct way cannot be established by written words, and yet these two words, ‘not established’ are themselves written."
( http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/Translations/PlatformSutra_DharmaJewel.pdf, ch 10,, p 383-384, tr BTTS)

"Wherever this sutra is taught, read, recited, copied, or wherever it is to be found, one should build a seven-jeweled stupa of great height and width and richly ornamented. There is no need to put a relic inside. Why is this? Because the Tathāgata is already in it."
...
"The bodhisattvas are exactly like this. If they have not yet heard, understood, or been able to practice this Lotus Sutra, they should be known as people who are still far away from highest, complete enlightenment. If they hear, understand, contemplate, and are able to practice it, they realize that they are certainly nearing highest, complete enlightenment. Why is this? Because the highest, complete enlightenment of all the bodhisattvas is within this sutra. This sutra opens the gate of skillful means and reveals the marks of the truth."
(Lotus Sutra, ch 10, BDK ed, p 161, 162)

Mañjuśrī said: “In the ocean I always expounded only the Lotus Sutra.”
Then Prajñākūṭa questioned Mañjuśrī, saying: “This sutra is profound and subtle. It is a jewel among sutras and rare in the world. If sentient beings diligently strive to practice this sutra, will they immediately become buddhas or not?”
Mañjuśrī answered: “Yes, they will.”
(ch 12, p 183)

"if there are sentient beings who hear this sutra and who devoutly understand, accept and maintain, and read and recite it, they will definitely attain this Dharma, and will not doubt it. How much more so if they cultivate according to its explanation!"
...
"This sutra extensively explains the inconceivable anuttarā samyaksaṃbodhi of the buddhas of the past, present, and future. Therefore, heavenly emperor, if good men and women accept and maintain, read and recite, and make offerings to this sutra, that is tantamount to making offerings to the buddhas of the past, present, and future."
(Vimalakirti Sutra, ch 13, BDK ed, p 171-172)

"Sutras of this type should, during the final period after my nirvana, be circulated extensively throughout Jambudvīpa by you and others with your numinous power, so [the Dharma] is not cut off."
...
“If in the future there are good men and women who seek the Mahayana, I will make certain that they get hold of such sutras. Using their power of mindfulness, I will cause them to receive and maintain, read and recite, and extensively explain them for others.
“World-honored One, if in the latter age there are those able to receive, maintain, read, recite, and explain them for others, one should understand that these will all be established by Maitreya’s numinous power.”
(ch 14, p 177, 178)

"Those who study this scripture will gain an opening into the true dharma, becoming excellent physicians themselves. You should understand, however, that those who never study it will be blind, lacking eyes of wisdom, their sight clouded by ignorance."
(Nirvana Sutra, ch 3, BDK ed, p 105)

"To his disciples the Tathagata teaches in succession the ninefold canon of scriptures so that they may become thoroughly familiar with that dharma. It is only after this that he teaches the hidden treasury that is the tathiigatagarbha. expounding the Tathagata' s permanence for his disciples. The Tathagata expounds the Mahayana scripture, the Great Nirvana Sutra in this way for those who have already made their resolution for awakening as well as for those who have not, thereby creating a karmic cause for bodhi in both, with exception of the icchantikas. Thus, good man, this Mahayana scripture, the Great Nirvana Sutra. is immeasurably, innumerably, and inconceivably rare. You should understand it to be the most skilled of all skilled physicians, foremost and superior, the king among sutras."
(p 294)

"If one hears this sutra or retains even one four-line verse of it, that person will then access the stage of the Buddha’s knowledge; one will be able to proselyte sentient beings with appropriate expedients and become the great spiritual mentor (kalyanamitra) of all living things."
(Vajrasamadhi Sutra, ch 1, p 58, tr Buswell)

"If there is a sentient being who keeps this sutra, then in all other sutras he will have nothing more to seek. The dharma of this scripture encodes all dharmas and includes the essentials of all sutras. It is the unifying thread of the dharmas of all these sutras."
(p 302)


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 26th, 2017 at 12:03 AM
Title: Re: Vipasyana Meditation
Content:
Anonymous X said:
And, why does no one here refer to the Mahasatipattana Sutta for instruction in Vipassana practice? The Buddha, in his own words, lays it out. Is it not the proper place to start to learn about it?


Malcolm wrote:
Wrong kind of vipaśyanā.

The kind of vipaśyanā proper to Māhayāna is referred to in the Akṣayamati-nirdeśa:

"The consciousness that perceives the entry into reality is called "vipaśyanā." So-called vipaśyanā is perceiving phenomena correctly, perceiving phenomena as they are, perceiving phenomena truly, and perceiving phenomena as not otherwise, perceiving phenomena as empty, without characteristics, without aspiration, perceiving phenomena to be unformed, likewise, nonarisen, unproduced, insubstantial, just as they are, pure, and as isolated. It is perceiving phenomena as unmoving, inactive, without self, wholly without grasping, inseparable, one taste, as the nature of space, and nirvana by nature," etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 25th, 2017 at 11:31 PM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
One cannot get Dharma from black marks on white paper.

Astus said:
I think a good number of sutras disagree with that.

Malcolm wrote:
No they don't.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 25th, 2017 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: Yes, you need a teacher.
Content:
Astus said:
You need a teacher for what?

Malcolm wrote:
For hearing the Dharma. One cannot get Dharma from black marks on white paper.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 25th, 2017 at 2:47 AM
Title: Re: The "Self" in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:


CedarTree said:
Well said, though Malcolm I would really suggest you write books explaining and detailing points of practice.  This could be a powerful offering to the community.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, I have don't really have time to write a book write now. I am too busy working on translations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 25th, 2017 at 2:06 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:


Minobu said:
could this be some semantic argument thing?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhafields are places where one can train Dharma without the kinds of obstacles one faces here in terms of limited life span, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 25th, 2017 at 1:36 AM
Title: Re: I've been so wrong/pure lands
Content:
Minobu said:
so like i really thought this whole life in a pure land and life after death and looking down on the saha world from above was just weirded out

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhafields are not heaven.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 25th, 2017 at 1:29 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Fa Dao said:
ok, so  I ordered the book because Rinpoche recommends it...however, can anyone clue me in to the reason why he wants everyone to read it?

Harimoo said:
Because you've got to know the previous life of your future guru ?

Malcolm wrote:
Yeshe Namkhai is only the guru of those who choose to follow his teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 25th, 2017 at 12:45 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, pg. 32 onwards until end. When you compare with ChNN's account, seems to be a huge difference of opinion about Chago Tobden's devotion to Heka Lingpa.

Pero said:
That's not the only difference. By reading OT''s account you get the impression Uncle Khyentse (of apparently questionable recognition to some) was just some ordinary dude who chanced into luxury etc.

Fa Dao said:
ok, so  I ordered the book because Rinpoche recommends it...however, can anyone clue me in to the reason why he wants everyone to read it? Apparently there is a story going around that this version of events corrects?

Malcolm wrote:
Perhaps it was brought to his attention that the book was not selling well and that there were many copies which had not been sold.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 4:48 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:
climb-up said:
Wait, so the only dakinis that appear in this world are flesh eating karma dakinis,
Dakinis live in the three upperworlds, but are not humans, asuras or devas,
but one of the sanskrit words for a human female with magical powers is dakini?

Malcolm wrote:
Who said it was a Sanskrit word for a human female?

climb-up said:
You may not have fully read the question that you responded to, which was" What is the Sanskrit word for "witch" then, as in the western sense of a human female (and occasional male) with magical power?

Malcolm wrote:
Since human beings with magical power are not considered unusual or necessarily frightful or taboo in Indian societies and literature, there really isn't a word that corresponds to the term "witch" in Sanskrit. But there is a correspondence in the sense that like European witches, ḍākinīs fly in the sky, meet on specific days of the month where there is feasting and other libidinous entertainment, and so on.

Of interest under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witches%27_Sabbath:
"(The concepts) represent a combination of three older mythical components, all of which are active at night: (1) A procession of female spirits, often joined by privileged human beings and often led by a supernatural woman; (2) A lone spectral huntsman, regarded as demonic, accursed, or otherworldly; (3) A procession of the human dead, normally thought to be wandering to expiate their sins, often noisy and tumultuous, and usually consisting of those who had died prematurely and violently. The first of these has pre-Christian origins, and probably contributed directly to the formulation of the concept of the witches’ sabbath. The other two seem to be medieval in their inception, with the third to be directly related to growing speculation about the fate of the dead in the 11th and 12th centuries."
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0015587X.2014.896968


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 4:29 AM
Title: Re: Sensations While Chanting
Content:
Unknown said:
Worse still, the effects tend to linger after I disengage from that session: racing thoughts, an inability to focus, impaired balance, and sensitivity to sensory stimuli.

Malcolm wrote:
This is symptomatic of vatta disorder.

https://www.banyanbotanicals.com/info/blog-the-banyan-insight/details/signs-symptoms-of-vata-imbalance


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 4:14 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Wheel Heavy Weights
Content:
Motova said:
Just because Malcolm is cool and accessible doesn't mean one should be a gomer.

Personally, I'm interested in what languages Loppon knows, what his favourite non-Buddhist books are, and what he has memorized.

I bet he has read 1000+ books.

Malcolm wrote:
Just Tibetan and English, smattering of Sanskrit.

I used to read alot of Scifi, but these days I find that boring. I don't read much since I am busy working all day.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 3:40 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:
Varis said:
What is the Sanskrit word for "witch"

Malcolm wrote:
ḍākinī, siddhayoginī, yoginī.

climb-up said:
Wait, so the only dakinis that appear in this world are flesh eating karma dakinis,
Dakinis live in the three upperworlds, but are not humans, asuras or devas,
but one of the sanskrit words for a human female with magical powers is dakini?

Malcolm wrote:
Who said it was a Sanskrit word for a human female?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 3:09 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
Here, you mean:
https://www.amazon.com/Times-Jamyang-Khyentse-Ch%C3%B6kyi-Lodr%C3%B6/dp/1611803772#reader_1611803772
?

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, pg. 32 onwards until end. When you compare with ChNN's account, seems to be a huge difference of opinion about Chago Tobden's devotion to Heka Lingpa.

Pero said:
That's not the only difference. By reading OT''s account you get the impression Uncle Khyentse (of apparently questionable recognition to some) was just some ordinary dude who chanced into luxury etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 2:33 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:
Varis said:
What is the Sanskrit word for "witch"

Malcolm wrote:
ḍākinī, siddhayoginī, yoginī.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 2:04 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:



Varis said:
Are they human beings or spirits?

Malcolm wrote:
They are ḍākinīs.

cyril said:
So, within the six realms scheme, which one do they belong to?

Malcolm wrote:
In three higher realms. But not humans, not asuras, and not devas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
Here, you mean:
https://www.amazon.com/Times-Jamyang-Khyentse-Ch%C3%B6kyi-Lodr%C3%B6/dp/1611803772#reader_1611803772
?

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, pg. 32 onwards until end. When you compare with ChNN's account, seems to be a huge difference of opinion about Chago Tobden's devotion to Heka Lingpa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:


treehuggingoctopus said:
Would you be so kind as to summarise the whole mysterious business in two-three sentences? I have an awful feeling that everybody in the room is talking about an incident I should so obviously know about -- but do not...

Malcolm wrote:
Retainers of Chokyi Lodo had problems with retainers of Chokyi Wangchuck. This lead to Chokyi Wangchuck's leaving Derge for good.

M

treehuggingoctopus said:
Thank you, Malcolm. Did the series end there and then, or are they still broadcasting new episodes?

Malcolm wrote:
The latest is the version of events recounted by OT in the JKCL, which on the face of it seem barely credible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 1:25 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:


treehuggingoctopus said:
Would you be so kind as to summarise the whole mysterious business in two-three sentences? I have an awful feeling that everybody in the room is talking about an incident I should so obviously know about -- but do not...

Malcolm wrote:
Retainers of Chokyi Lodo had problems with retainers of Chokyi Wangchuck. This lead to Chokyi Wangchuck's leaving Derge for good.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 1:07 AM
Title: Re: The "Self" in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:


CedarTree said:
Malcolm is there a books (one or a few) that you would recommend that go over these understandings?

I feel like Dzoghen has some understandings of the path that are deeply meaningful.  These would be such.

Malcolm wrote:
There is virtually nothing in English yet that clearly explains these points. Working on it.

CedarTree said:
Are points like this and detailed understandings present in the book you were saying will be available in 2018 of yours?

Malcolm wrote:
Some of these points are explained there. But in general, if you want to follow Dzogchen teachings you need to receive Dzogchen empowerments, ideal if one can, receive the Chetsun Nyinthig, Vima Nyinthig, etc., but if one cannot, then direct introduction will suffice from ChNN, Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche, etc. There is no benefit at all in reading Dzogchen tantras if one has not made the effort to receive Dzogchen transmission.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 1:00 AM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The only ḍākinīs that appear in the world are flesh-eating karma ḍākinīs.

Varis said:
Are they human beings or spirits?

Malcolm wrote:
They are ḍākinīs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 12:36 AM
Title: Re: The "Self" in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:


CedarTree said:
Malcolm is there a books (one or a few) that you would recommend that go over these understandings?

I feel like Dzoghen has some understandings of the path that are deeply meaningful.  These would be such.

Malcolm wrote:
There is virtually nothing in English yet that clearly explains these points. Working on it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 24th, 2017 at 12:31 AM
Title: Re: Vipasyana Meditation
Content:
Riju said:
Vipassana in Mahayana is done by watching with awareness the body pains/movements/sensations without any reaction.


Malcolm wrote:
No, vipaśyāna in Mahāyāna is the realization of the emptiness of all phenomena while resting in śamatha.

In Vajrayāna, vipaśyāna corresponds to the completion stage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 11:48 PM
Title: Re: Enlightened and mundane Dakinis
Content:
Varis said:
I've been reading a bit about Dakas/Dakinis, and I was hoping someone could give me some clarity on the subject.

Are enlightened dakinis still considered to be witches like mundane dakinis are, albeit, enlightened witches?
Is the state of being a Daka/Dakini a state of realization, an occupation (e.g. the village witch), or a form of rebirth? I've seen it described all three ways.

Thanks!

Malcolm wrote:
The only ḍākinīs that appear in the world are flesh-eating karma ḍākinīs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 7:21 AM
Title: Re: Nothing further to seek...
Content:



florin said:
I guesss, in the way i understand things, it is.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because you have a tendency towards sems sde extremism.

florin said:
Whats this extremism you are referring to?
Explain

Malcolm wrote:
At the time of the basis there is no one or two. However, when buddhas and sentient beings appear, then there is a one and a two, and a three, etc.

People who follow sems sde tend to have extreme views about nonduality. But Dzogchen view is not nondualism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 6:38 AM
Title: Re: Nothing further to seek...
Content:




florin said:
Isnt the recognition a cause, a condition?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, is that a problem?

florin said:
I guesss, in the way i understand things, it is.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because you have a tendency towards sems sde extremism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 6:16 AM
Title: Re: Nothing further to seek...
Content:
Wayfarer said:
What troubles me about this is that only detachment, only letting go, is an end in itself.  But what about that gives rise to bodhicitta? Where is the 'energy of compassion'?

Malcolm wrote:
Bodhicitta arises naturally through the recognition that the source of all suffering is clinging and addiction.


florin said:
Isnt the recognition a cause, a condition?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, is that a problem?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 6:00 AM
Title: Re: Nothing further to seek...
Content:
Wayfarer said:
What troubles me about this is that only detachment, only letting go, is an end in itself.  But what about that gives rise to bodhicitta? Where is the 'energy of compassion'?

Malcolm wrote:
Bodhicitta arises naturally through the recognition that the source of all suffering is clinging and addiction.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 5:14 AM
Title: Re: The "Self" in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:
CedarTree said:
If I remember correctly I saw a quote where Malcolm spoke about there most definitely being a "Self" in Tibetan Buddhism.

I have a feeling I know how he meant this but I would like maybe Malcolm and or others to explain how Tibetan Buddhism and Dzoghen/Mahamudra understand Self.


Malcolm wrote:
No form of Tibetan Buddhism suggests there is a self as a soul or atman, a permanent entity which moves from incarnation to incarnation. Where the term "self" is used in some tathāgatagarbha sūtras, it is a reference the dharmakāya of the buddhas.

CedarTree said:
Yes that is kind of how I thought it was being referenced but I wanted to check.

You have mentioned before though in other forums about the material world being transformed into the Five Pristine Lights could you talk about this a bit and how it works into the three bodies?  I would be interested in this aspect and how it relates to Tibetan Buddhism understanding.

Malcolm wrote:
It actually works the other way. The five lights are reified as elements.

In Dzogchen teachings, three kāyas are path appearances and do not exist in the result.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 5:11 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:



boda said:
One of the reasons the topic is so long is that claims like this have been made but have not been supported by reasonable arguments.

Malcolm wrote:
Which claims?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 5:07 AM
Title: Re: The "Self" in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:
CedarTree said:
If I remember correctly I saw a quote where Malcolm spoke about there most definitely being a "Self" in Tibetan Buddhism.

I have a feeling I know how he meant this but I would like maybe Malcolm and or others to explain how Tibetan Buddhism and Dzoghen/Mahamudra understand Self.


Malcolm wrote:
No form of Tibetan Buddhism suggests there is a self as a soul or atman, a permanent entity which moves from incarnation to incarnation. Where the term "self" is used in some tathāgatagarbha sūtras, it is a reference the dharmakāya of the buddhas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 4:50 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:
Minobu said:
how can you knock a Buddha's perfect Nirmanakaya incarnation?

Malcolm wrote:
I don't. I simply have a broader view of the Dharma than you.


Minobu said:
one would then practice something other than Buddhism ..like a mish mash of Shamanism and local teachers . not unlike Bon and Nyingma  producing Dzogchen..

Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen comes from India, 110%. It has nothing to do with Shamanism. That Bonpos adopted Dzogchen when it came to Tibet is merely a point in their favor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:
Simon E. said:
He does.
AND/BUT he paid for someone I know who was having a hard time financially, to attend teachings of a highly traditional manner of a kind that he (Batchelor) has turned his face against..

Malcolm wrote:
Kindness is a virtue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 12:40 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:
Minobu said:
I have not yet revealed the truth...from a teaching point of view is not saying he was a lier just preparing you in the past for the shock of what is about to be taught.

Malcolm wrote:
It means he wasted everyone's time. Unless of course it does not mean what you intend it to mean, i.e., that the statement invalidates all the teaching that came before.

Also, the idea of restricting the teachings of the Buddha to one nirmanakāya's utterances is frankly absurd on the face of it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 12:31 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:


Simon E. said:
Having said that I have never heard him lecture in a formal sense..The times I have met him have been in an informal setting, where he has a quiet donnish wit and is very hospitable.


Malcolm wrote:
I am sure he is a gentleman. He still spouts piles of useless drivel like this:

https://tricycle.org/magazine/quit-guru-yoga/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 12:24 AM
Title: Re: Mental Heath and therapy vs. Dharma practice
Content:


Simon E. said:
One of the results of this is that most talking therapies are no longer funded by the state..there was simply too little evidence of their making a difference.

Malcolm wrote:
Precisely my point.

Simon E. said:
Another is that a simple form of CBT is being widely supported for certain conditions..because it actually can be shown to aid a return to 'normal' functioning.

Malcolm wrote:
CBT/DBT is based on confronting a person, gently, with how they perceive situations they are in with how things actually are. With enough patience, the client can be persuaded that their cognitive dissonance around this or that issue is debilitating and needs to shift. It is especially effective with people suffering from personality disorders. But it is palliative, it does not "cure" anything.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 12:18 AM
Title: Re: Question about transmission and pointing-out instructions
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
Have you ever treated anyone with severe mental health issues?

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on what you mean by severe. I have worked with people suffering from acute mental health issues. I won't treat people who have placed on been heavy psych meds. It ruins their bodies and renders them ill-suited for treatment by other means.

Johnny Dangerous said:
What is your experience of the mental health care system?

Malcolm wrote:
Extensive.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 23rd, 2017 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:
Simon E. said:
But honest enough to say that his views would be widely regarded as Wrong Views.
And he says that publically. He always leaves his listeners with that choice. Which is why in my view he is wrong rather than villainous.

Malcolm wrote:
I saw him give a lecture about two years ago. I thought he was very flat and uninteresting as a speaker.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:
Dan74 said:
He is, however,  a viillain of Buddhist forums.

Malcolm wrote:
No, but he is someone who encourages wrong view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Bon as a form of Buddhism
Content:


kalden yungdrung said:
In Bön is Buddha Shakyamuni accepted, as one of the students of Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche.
According Bön, Buddha Shakyamuni got instructions from the Buddha Tönpa Shenrab to teach Dharma into this world.

Malcolm wrote:
Liker I said, alternate universe with alternate history.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 12:20 PM
Title: Re: Question about transmission and pointing-out instructions
Content:


TharpaChodron said:
So, calling talk therapy bullshit may be fine for some, but for underrepresented, severely abused people, I think good talk therapy is damn good.

Malcolm wrote:
And I just see them re-traumatize themselves over and over again. I guess we just have different experiences of the mental health care system in this country. Personally, I think it is brutalizing. And I live in Massachusetts, where positive outcomes are supposed to very high. But positive outcomes in mental health care can be correlated with wealth. Thus, here in my state, mental health care is a much larger problem out here in the sticks than it is in wealthier Boston suburbs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 11:30 AM
Title: Re: Question about transmission and pointing-out instructions
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
What would you tell a Buddhist with trauma from a rape, experiencing panic attacks, who was engaged primarily in shamatha practice?

Malcolm wrote:
Depending on how experienced a practitioner the women was, the first thing I would tell them to do is to cease practicing any meditation whatsoever, especially shamatha, since anxious perseveration can become intense if one's three "humors" are out of balance. I would then advise them to seek out whatever they felt they needed for their care. I would also encourage them to seek out medical treatments from qualified Ayurvedic or Tibetan physicians. I would encourage them not to take any pharmaceuticals for anxiety or depression, because these issues are most effectively treated through diet, herbs, and external therapies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 11:10 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Spelare said:
If I want to dedicate time to reading a Dzogchen text, say a tantra or a terma, does it make sense to integrate that into a thun?

Malcolm wrote:
Practice Ati Guruyoga in the beginning. Read with mindfulness and awareness. Authenticate with a dedication in end.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 11:08 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Aryjna said:
In the Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja ChNNR says that gana refers to the accumulation of merits.


Malcolm wrote:
This is also true, the term gaṇa (tshogs) definitely means a group/grouping of both/either things and beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 5:55 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Wheel Heavy Weights
Content:
CedarTree said:
Sometimes your a bit of an ass haha but still a treasure source of knowledge

Malcolm wrote:
Was that absolutely necessary?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 5:36 AM
Title: Re: Question about transmission and pointing-out instructions
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
What kind? Do you realize how many different therapies make up the modern field, and how different they are?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and yes.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Then I think your blanket dismissal is silly, but I understand your point.

Malcolm wrote:
Waste of time and money for Buddhists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 5:28 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:


Coëmgenu said:
This is all good and well. Mahāyāna sūtrāṇi confirm the vow of Amitābha.

But the argument was that the Saddharmapuṇḍarīkasūtra claims that nembutsu is invalidated by it, as far as I am able to understand the claim.

Malcolm wrote:
That was the claim, but no reasoning was given to support that claim. Apart from the usual claim that the Lotus cancels out Buddha's earlier teachings, thus turning the Buddha into a liar.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 5:23 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:
Admin_PC said:
The reasoning behind the 10 chants

Malcolm wrote:
Ten thoughts, not ten chants.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 5:12 AM
Title: Re: Question about transmission and pointing-out instructions
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
What kind? Do you realize how many different therapies make up the modern field, and how different they are?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 5:11 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:


Minobu said:
pure land...i just don't agree with the promise of three nembutsu chants and bingo your there.
that is what i have always said, in more or less words.
deathbed religious promises ..another gripe i have when selling this to the masses...

Malcolm wrote:
“Śāriputra, those sentient beings who hear of that land should aspire to be born there. Why? Because they will be able to meet such sages of supreme virtue. Śāriputra, one cannot attain birth in that land with few roots of good or a small store of merit. Śāriputra, if a good man or woman who hears of Amitāyus holds fast to his Name even for one day, two days, three, four, five, six, or seven days with a concentrated and undistracted mind, then, at the hour of death, Amitāyus will appear with a host of holy ones. Consequently, when their life comes to an end, the aspirants’ minds will not fall into confusion and so they will be born immediately in the Land of Utmost Bliss of Amitāyus. Śāriputra, perceiving these benefits, I say: All sentient beings who hear this teaching should aspire to birth in that land."

http://www.bdk.or.jp/document/dgtl-dl/dBET_ThreePureLandSutras_2003.pdf

Minobu said:
fair enough...so all one has to do is chant the name...and ignore the meditation holds fast to his Name even for one day, two days, three, four, five, six, or seven days with a concentrated and undistracted mind, then, at the hour of death, Amitāyus will appear with a host of holy ones. Consequently, when their life comes to an end, the aspirants’ minds will not fall into confusion and so they will be born immediately in the Land of Utmost Bliss of Amitāyus
i think there is a difference...

Malcolm wrote:
If, when I attain buddhahood, sentient beings in the lands of the ten directions who sincerely and joyfully entrust themselves to me, desire to be born in my land, and think of me even ten times should not be born there, may I not attain perfect enlightenment.

No chanting, just wishing...the Buddha said it, not me.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 5:08 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:


Minobu said:
Lotus Sutra..
as I mentioned earlier if it is in the Sutra the daimoku will cause it to happen
no where in any sutra does chanting the Nembutsu cause this to happen.

it's the Lotus sutra which brought her to the Lotus seat.

hopefully you have dropped the idea that i do not believe in pure lands and will move on.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it was the vow of Amitabha that did so, from their point of view. Your point of view differs.

Minobu said:
ok...where then in what sutra...source?

Malcolm wrote:
18. If, when I attain buddhahood, sentient beings in the lands of the ten directions who sincerely and joyfully entrust themselves to me, desire to be born in my land, and think of me even ten times should not be born there, may I not attain perfect enlightenment. Excluded, however, are those who commit the five grave offenses and abuse the Right Dharma.

19. If, when I attain buddhahood, sentient beings in the lands of the ten directions who awaken aspiration for enlightenment, do various meritorious deeds, and sincerely desire to be born in my land, should not, at their death, see me appear before them surrounded by a multitude of sages, may I not attain perfect enlightenment.

http://www.bdk.or.jp/document/dgtl-dl/dBET_ThreePureLandSutras_2003.pdf


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 5:07 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:


Minobu said:
pure land...i just don't agree with the promise of three nembutsu chants and bingo your there.
that is what i have always said, in more or less words.
deathbed religious promises ..another gripe i have when selling this to the masses...

Malcolm wrote:
“Śāriputra, those sentient beings who hear of that land should aspire to be born there. Why? Because they will be able to meet such sages of supreme virtue. Śāriputra, one cannot attain birth in that land with few roots of good or a small store of merit. Śāriputra, if a good man or woman who hears of Amitāyus holds fast to his Name even for one day, two days, three, four, five, six, or seven days with a concentrated and undistracted mind, then, at the hour of death, Amitāyus will appear with a host of holy ones. Consequently, when their life comes to an end, the aspirants’ minds will not fall into confusion and so they will be born immediately in the Land of Utmost Bliss of Amitāyus. Śāriputra, perceiving these benefits, I say: All sentient beings who hear this teaching should aspire to birth in that land."

http://www.bdk.or.jp/document/dgtl-dl/dBET_ThreePureLandSutras_2003.pdf


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:


Admin_PC said:
Let's play "guess which sutra this comes from"... If there is any woman five hundred years
after the parinirvāṇa of the Tathāgata who hears this sutra and practices
according to the teaching, she will immediately reach the dwelling of the
Buddha Amitāyus in the Sukhāvatī world, surrounded by great bodhisattvas,
and will be born on a jeweled seat in a lotus flower. Never again troubled
by the [three poisons] of greed, anger, or ignorance, by arrogance or jealousy,
he will attain the bodhisattva’s transcendent powers and the acceptance
of the nonorigination of all dharmas. After attaining this acceptance,
his faculty of sight will be pure; and with this pure eye faculty, he will see all
the Buddha Tathāgatas, equal in number to the sands of seventy-two million
koṭis of nayutas of Ganges Rivers.

Minobu said:
Lotus Sutra..
as I mentioned earlier if it is in the Sutra the daimoku will cause it to happen
no where in any sutra does chanting the Nembutsu cause this to happen.

it's the Lotus sutra which brought her to the Lotus seat.

hopefully you have dropped the idea that i do not believe in pure lands and will move on.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it was the vow of Amitabha that did so, from their point of view. Your point of view differs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 4:48 AM
Title: Re: Question about transmission and pointing-out instructions
Content:



Johnny Dangerous said:
The old theories have their (huge) flaws, but their focus on depth is not one of them, IMO. CBT etc. is great but most modern stuff has become so solution focused and goal oriented, I wonder if that is a problem of and within itself.

Malcolm wrote:
Basically, talk therapy is bullshit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 3:13 AM
Title: Re: Shakubuku and shoju a few thoughts
Content:



Queequeg said:
In this, these traditions have accomplished precisely what they set out to do - preserve Dharma in this Degenerate Age.

Malcolm wrote:
So has Shingon, Chan, Zen, Theravada, Tibetan Buddhism in general, and so on.

The polemics between this school and that are largely rubbish meant for the choir.

Queequeg said:
You're a funny guy. You seized on a comment, took it out of context and then turned it into something else.
Thanks.

Malcolm wrote:
Grasshopper, this is the way of Dharmawheel.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 2:55 AM
Title: Re: Question about transmission and pointing-out instructions
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Therapy is useless for Buddhists. It is based on a one lifetime view.

Rick said:
Depends on the therapist. There are some who are either Buddhist or believe in rebirth/reincarnation. I worked with one a while back.

And it depends on the Buddhist. Not all Buddhists believe in literal rebirth. (And no I'm not trying to open the can of worms that is secular Buddhism.)

Malcolm wrote:
Sorry, just not a fan of psychotherapy. YMMV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 2:47 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
What do you think of Mabja Jangchub Tsondru's commentary of the Dharmachakra committee's translation?

Malcolm wrote:
It's pretty good. But it does not negate my point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 2:36 AM
Title: Re: Question about transmission and pointing-out instructions
Content:


climb-up said:
Do you feel like American Buddhists have more anger issues than the population as a whole?


Malcolm wrote:
Nope, quite a bit less, actually.

Rick said:
I would think that Buddhists, on average, take the dangers of anger to heart more than the general population. It's pretty obvious how potent a poison anger can be ... and Buddhists are trained to recognize toxic things that spread suffering. Of course it's not like every Buddhist catches every gush of anger venom as it is gushing. Hence the benefit of a good therapist in some situations.

Malcolm wrote:
Therapy is useless for Buddhists. It is based on a one lifetime view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
Of course it's not always easy to decide when Nagarjuna is making an opponent's argument or his own

Malcolm wrote:
It's is very easy. Just follow Buddhapalita.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 2:14 AM
Title: Re: Shakubuku and shoju a few thoughts
Content:
Queequeg said:
If anything, Nichiren and Pure Land Buddhism have been the vehicles that have preserved Buddhism in Japan long beyond the collapse of institutional Buddhism.
In this, these traditions have accomplished precisely what they set out to do - preserve Dharma in this Degenerate Age.

Malcolm wrote:
So has Shingon, Chan, Zen, Theravada, Tibetan Buddhism in general, and so on.

The polemics between this school and that are largely rubbish meant for the choir.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 2:13 AM
Title: Re: Question about transmission and pointing-out instructions
Content:


climb-up said:
Do you feel like American Buddhists have more anger issues than the population as a whole?


Malcolm wrote:
Nope, quite a bit less, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 2:06 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Cessations simply don't exist.

PuerAzaelis said:
In which case, following the same statement you cite:

Malcolm wrote:
... nonexistents are conditioned

PuerAzaelis said:
... a cessation, since it "simply doesn't exist", is conditioned.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this does not follow since existents are productions, whereas cessations are not.

You are confusing bhava and abhava with asti and nasti. When one says that a cessation does not exist (nasti), one is not making the claim they are nonexistents ( abhava ). Nonexistents are defined from existents. There is no existent by which a nonexistent cessation might be defined since cessations are not produced to begin with, being unconditioned. Cessations have no being at all, of any kind, including nonbeing. Therefore, they do not exist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 1:57 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:


PuerAzaelis said:
Nagarjuna says in MMK 25:7-8:

If Nirvana is not a [positive] existent, how will nirvana be an "absence"?
Where there is no existent, there is no "absence".
And if nirvana is an "absence" how can nirvana be non-dependent?
There is no absence that exists without dependence.

So it's not possible to make a statement that cessation "simply doesn't exist".


Malcolm wrote:
Nirvana is unconditioned; existents and nonexistents are conditioned;
how can there be either existents or nonexistents in nirvana?

Cessations simply don't exist. How could they? They have no means of existence at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 1:38 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Doesn't apply.

PuerAzaelis said:
it's the exact portion of chapter 25 that discusses nonexistence of Nirvana which is exactly what we're talking about.

Malcolm wrote:
It does not apply as a rebuttal to my point. You cited it without giving a context for why you were citing it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 1:16 AM
Title: Mental Heath and therapy vs. Dharma practice
Content:
conebeckham said:
I know Buddhists who are adept at expressing anger, and not repressing it.  It passes, like everything else.  I suppose repression is an issue for many Western practitioners, and maybe for others as well, I can't say.  I wonder what sorts of emotional suppression psychotherapists feel they are susceptible to?? None, I guess?

Malcolm wrote:
I am sure the resistance that guy was feeling was the general feeling that many Buddhists have that therapy is pretty useless in general. I know that is how I feel.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: Shakubuku and shoju a few thoughts
Content:
DGA said:
The bit about the Nation...

Malcolm wrote:
Goes all the way back to Prince Shotoku.

Queequeg said:
Possibly further, but Shotoku is definitely credited with establishing a state in the Sinic sense.

Malcolm wrote:
Prince Shotoku is credited with bringing Buddhism to Japan, and setting up Buddhist practice for the benefit of the nation. We can see recommendations for kings to tie their national destiny with Buddhismn in such sutras as the Suvarnaprabhasa and so on.

Some might see Lotus and Pure Land populism as a negative trend that undermined Buddhism in the long run in Japan, as well as a general symptom of political instability in the Kamakura period, the very fracture of the aristocracy that had given Buddhism its long standing patronage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017 at 12:00 AM
Title: Re: Dakini Script?
Content:
mutsuk said:
Using that method and a proper set of equivalences, I have seen JLA transcribed some of Düdjom Lingpa's dakini scripts pretty easily.

Malcolm wrote:
The same applies to the Dakini script in Rinchen Phuntsog's Yangzab. There is a key, and one finds mostly names of predicted people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: Shakubuku and shoju a few thoughts
Content:
DGA said:
The bit about the Nation...

Malcolm wrote:
Goes all the way back to Prince Shotoku.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The characteristic of cessation is absence of arising.

aflatun said:
Absence of arising of what?
Apologies Malcolm, I wasn't trying to be cute here, it was a sincere question.

When you often say things like "cessation is absence of arising" do you mean ALL arising? As in, cessation is the non arising of appearances, what is dependently originated, etc?

Malcolm wrote:
There are two kinds of cessation: analytical and non-analytical. The latter is simply the absence of causes for a series to arise. Example, a burnt seed. The former is the absence of causes due to analysis, for example, the absence of afflictions in an arhat. In absence of afflictions, one ceases taking rebirth. In both of these cases there is no ceased existent through which a nonexistent can be known.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 10:21 PM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
They have the same existence as anything which cannot be/is not produced. They simply don't.

PuerAzaelis said:
?

7.

If Nirvana is not a [positive] existent, how will nirvana be an "absence"?
Where there is no existent, there is no "absence".

8.

And if nirvana is an "absence" how can nirvana be non-dependent?
There is no absence that exists without dependence.

MMK, 25 (Siderits, scare quotes added by me)

Malcolm wrote:
Doesn't apply.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 11:56 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Wheel Heavy Weights
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
I never discuss my practice. Long standing policy.

liuzg150181 said:
Personal policy or due to nature of secret Mantrayana?

Malcolm wrote:
Both.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 4:11 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra
Content:
Queequeg said:
MOVED FROM EAST ASIAN BUDDHISM FORUM

Have at it. 

Please keep in mind you are all Buddhas to be. Don't write something that you will regret. 

If I may suggest: Take three long breaths before you press send. Think about the person you are addressing with the first breath. Think about yourself with the second breath. And think about all living beings with the third.

Malcolm wrote:
Ok daddy.

Queequeg said:
As long as you understand who I am.

Malcolm wrote:
Umm, I have chronic problems with authority figures, or anyone who imagines they are one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 4:07 AM
Title: Re: Morality of stockholding
Content:
tingdzin said:
Well, the term is so watered down now, it has become meaningless, just a way for people to feel trendy and "in" about what they're doing.

PuerAzaelis said:
Kind of like "Buddhism" too. I don't see may "fake Guru Rinpoche quotes" on the internet.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, Dzogchen will never be trendy since it cannot be practiced without a guru, unlike mindfulness or what passes for it these days.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 3:56 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Wheel Heavy Weights
Content:
CedarTree said:
Things in practice that you wish you could tell your younger self.

Malcolm wrote:
Stay in retreat and never leave.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 3:55 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra
Content:
Queequeg said:
MOVED FROM EAST ASIAN BUDDHISM FORUM

Have at it. 

Please keep in mind you are all Buddhas to be. Don't write something that you will regret. 

If I may suggest: Take three long breaths before you press send. Think about the person you are addressing with the first breath. Think about yourself with the second breath. And think about all living beings with the third.

Malcolm wrote:
Ok daddy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 3:52 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:
Minobu said:
It's not a Lotus Sutra nor Nirvanna Sutra thing ...or is it?  I'm open to factual discussion on the matter...


Malcolm wrote:
There are a lot of assumptions about the history of Mahāyāna sūtras that we do not agree upon. We come from very different traditions and will get nowhere by making parochial assertions. It is better to simply respect our differences.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 3:32 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:



cloudburst said:
To be less sloppy, horns of rabbits can NOT actually be known by mind, as such a thing never existed. You could perhaps apprehend a generic image of Rabbit horns.

The point is that cessations and space, of course, do exist.

Malcolm wrote:
They have the same existence as anything which cannot be/is not produced. They simply don't. The example for how things exist is space. The example for how space exists is hair on a tortoise— it just doesn't grow.

cloudburst said:
I guess its you vs Chandrakiriti then

Malcolm wrote:
It isn't actually. It's between me and how you (mis)understand Chandrakirti.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 3:29 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Wheel Heavy Weights
Content:



DNS said:
Maybe not, but you're a semi-famous person, especially in the Buddhist scene, have written some books, done translations, so if not a "public" person per se, something pretty close where someone might want to write a bio / wikipedia article, amazon.com bio, etc one day, so was curious.

Malcolm wrote:
I discourage curiosity about my personal life.

CedarTree said:
DNS your not the only one that has wondered this.  I have often thought Malcolm supported himself with Tibetan Medicine or teaching.  Definitely curious hah!

Also Malcolm could you go a bit more personal into your practice and translation work, any translations that have really stood out to you and why?  Things in practice that you wish you could tell your younger self.


Malcolm wrote:
I never discuss my practice. Long standing policy.

I am very enthused our translation (Zangthal Editions) of two major Dzogchen tantras will be released by Wisdom August, 28th, 2018.

https://www.amazon.com/Self-Arisen-Vidya-Tantra-vol-Self-Liberated/dp/1614294860/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511206169&sr=8-1&keywords=self-arisen+vidy%C4%81


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 3:21 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:
Minobu said:
it is weird...but i understand exactly what you said, are implying and why.
Why can't you understand that according to Lord Shakyamuni's Lotus Sutra the stuff i said was taught and handed down and protected by Buddha for me to read and understand in this life.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that is your karmic inclination. My point is that Vajrayāna teachings state precisely the same sorts of things.

It is rather strange when basically liberal, open-minded, tolerant people become all fundamentalist when it comes to the superiority of their chosen Dharma path.

Minobu said:
it's not so much the superiority of the path but the time when employed.
i always say these other paths , even non buddhist paths, are all part of the Turning of the Dharma Wheel.
i don't deny the path , only the time when employed.

Malcolm wrote:
As I said, also in Dzogchen teachings it is claimed that this degenerate age is the best time to put them into practice because other teachings are not effective in the present. That is my whole point. It does not matter why one is taking a fundamentalist attitude, all that matters is that one is taking a fundamentalist attitude. Your only authority for your claims is because your belief that they are true. I sure don't believe this and see no reason to accept your claims as true, at least, they don't work for me. Likewise, you don't accept my claims as true.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: Extraordinary Women Practitioners
Content:
Simon E. said:
But....but...Malcolm. They are ladies..and they are caucasian and worse, they are goodlookin'.

Malcolm wrote:
And I know them personally and so can attest to their positive qualities as practitioners and teachers. Plus, they are western women, and it is high time westerners are recognized for their qualities of study and practice, especially women.

Simon E. said:
I think you know that my tongue was firmly in my cheek..You also know that I think inverse racial prejudice is a serious issue among Vajrayana students.

Malcolm wrote:
I know, that is why I posted pictures a couple western women I admire as Dharma practitioners.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 2:11 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:
Minobu said:
one should realize why a Nichiren practitioner views various other practices as no longer a cure for the darkness incurred in the present defiled age.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, everyone has explanations like that. From a Dzogchen point of view you are all kidding yourselves. One just learns to accept that there are no authorities beyond what one personally accepts as true and leave it at that.

There are 84,000 gates of Dharma, not only one.

Minobu said:
it is weird...but i understand exactly what you said, are implying and why.
Why can't you understand that according to Lord Shakyamuni's Lotus Sutra the stuff i said was taught and handed down and protected by Buddha for me to read and understand in this life.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that is your karmic inclination. My point is that Vajrayāna teachings state precisely the same sorts of things.

It is rather strange when basically liberal, open-minded, tolerant people become all fundamentalist when it comes to the superiority of their chosen Dharma path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 1:42 AM
Title: Re: Who is a slanderer of the Lotus Sutra?
Content:
Minobu said:
one should realize why a Nichiren practitioner views various other practices as no longer a cure for the darkness incurred in the present defiled age.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, everyone has explanations like that. From a Dzogchen point of view you are all kidding yourselves. One just learns to accept that there are no authorities beyond what one personally accepts as true and leave it at that.

There are 84,000 gates of Dharma, not only one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 12:41 AM
Title: Re: question to the Konchog Cidu
Content:
gyamtsotrinle said:
Hii,

Recently I have got the concise version of Konchog Cidu practice. And at the end of practice there is a dedication before a completion phase. Normally, as I am use to, is that dedication is after compeltion phase. So, my question is, what is the reason for that?
Thank you for the answers
Gyamtso Trinle


Malcolm wrote:
It completely depends on which arrangement you are using. For example, in my text, it is in the normal place.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: question to the Konchog Cidu
Content:
windoverwater said:
My text, which is in Tibetan, does not include dedication verses either. Perhaps there were not dedication verses specific to this liturgy in the original terma, but I do not know for certain. Maybe a more knowledgeable member here can comment on that.

What I do is chant a generic 4-line dedication prayer at the end. You may know this already because it gets used a lot.
In English transliteration it goes:

GEWA DI YI NYUR DU DAK
(INSERT NAME) DRUP GYUR NE
DROWA KYI KYANG MA LU PA
DE YI SA LA DRUP PAR SHOK

For this practice, I insert ORGYEN PEMA.

The translation of these verses would be something like:
By this merit, may I quickly accomplish [the enlightened state] of Orgyen Pema, and having achieved that may I establish all beings without exception at that level.

Hope this is helpful to your practice.

Malcolm wrote:
In this case, it should be PEMA OBAR, since that is Guru P's actual name in this sadhana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 12:36 AM
Title: Re: Extraordinary Women Practitioners
Content:
Simon E. said:
But....but...Malcolm. They are ladies..and they are caucasian and worse, they are goodlookin'.

Malcolm wrote:
And I know them personally and so can attest to their positive qualities as practitioners and teachers. Plus, they are western women, and it is high time westerners are recognized for their qualities of study and practice, especially women.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 12:27 AM
Title: Re: Bon - a form of Buddhism or not?
Content:
pemachophel said:
Loppon, I don't remember if Tulku Sang-ngak referenced the test you mention, but it was quite clear He was reading from His own essay.

Can't comment on the logic or evidence.

Malcolm wrote:
The evidence that sang offerings, prayer flags ( rlung rta, originally spelled klung rta ) come from Indian Buddhism is basically nonexistent.

Not sure why this is even an issue, actually. For example, nag brtsi comes from China, and no one disputes this, as well as most of the gto rites.

Likewise Buddhists forgot the original meaning of sgra bla and started spelling it dgra lha.

Padmasambhava is recorded in one of the Kathangs was saying that since the gods and demons of Tibet were happy with Bon, some Bon rites were preserved.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 12:21 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Wheel Heavy Weights
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It is not relevant to discussions here.

DNS said:
Maybe not, but you're a semi-famous person, especially in the Buddhist scene, have written some books, done translations, so if not a "public" person per se, something pretty close where someone might want to write a bio / wikipedia article, amazon.com bio, etc one day, so was curious.

Malcolm wrote:
I discourage curiosity about my personal life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 21st, 2017 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Wheel Heavy Weights
Content:


DNS said:
Okay, cool. So you make a living doing Tibetan medicine practice? Clients/patients see you or is it all online?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope, not that either.

DNS said:
Okay, then what is it? Or would you rather not say?


Malcolm wrote:
It is not relevant to discussions here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 11:49 PM
Title: Re: Bon - a form of Buddhism or not?
Content:
Dharmasherab said:
Thank you Malcolm, Tolya M, Pemachophel, Mantrik and Virgo for your comments from yesterday.

Just to bring the topic back to the thread -  its about the three questions which I originally asked especially if Bon have a Noble 8Fold Path, the 4 Noble Truths, Thirty-seven Qualities conducive to Enlightenment (Bodhipakkhiyadhamma)?

People who do not care about the questions or who try to dismiss the questions as unnecessary such people do not need to feel obliged to answer in this thread as those are not the type of responses I am looking for. So its just a waste of their time as well as my time.

Those who do not know the answer but who are interested in finding the connection would benefit from the helpful answers.

So far I am reading this texbook called 'The Four Wheels of Bon' which is based on the talks from Yongdzin Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche. I see a lot of similarity with Buddhism. Next I hope to read the book 'Opening the Door to Bon' by Nyima Dakpa.


Malcolm wrote:
They teach the four seals, as it is said in the Magic Keyhole of Discrimination, a text written by Nyamey Sherab Gyaltsen:
Impermanence summarizes all conditioned things. Suffering summarizes all contaminated things. Peace summarizes all of nirvana. Selflessness summarizes all phenomena.
I don't know if they teach the 37 bodhipakṣadharmas or not. I would be suprised if they didn't.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 11:29 PM
Title: Re: Yantra yoga health and knees
Content:
Miroku said:
So noone knows if yantra is damaging the knees?

Malcolm wrote:
Can be if you are not careful.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 11:02 PM
Title: Re: Extraordinary Women Practitioners
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: Morality of stockholding
Content:



tingdzin said:
How delusional.

Josef said:
Really?
Explain to us how the Dzogchen view is limited.

tingdzin said:
Well, the term is so watered down now, it has become meaningless, just a way for people to feel trendy and "in" about what they're doing. Next we'll hear about the Dzogchen approach to politics or tap dancing. All hogwash.


Malcolm wrote:
However, investing in the market is an excellent way to observe one's hope when the market rises, and fear when the market declines. So indeed, one can carry investing into the Dzogchen path. After nonduality is not the measure of Dzogchen practice, but rather, freedom from hope and fear. As John Bogle says, a successful investor buys while the market is falling, and sells while market is rising.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 9:57 PM
Title: Re: Extraordinary Women Practitioners
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 9:33 PM
Title: Re: Does anyone know anything about www.dakiniswhisper.com?
Content:
Dharmaswede said:
http://www.dakiniswhisper.com?

Malcolm wrote:
I've met Choying Khandro, she is a very nice person. Seems very dedicated to this tradition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 7:59 PM
Title: Re: Dharma Wheel Heavy Weights
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I don't. No. No.

DNS said:
Okay, cool. So you make a living doing Tibetan medicine practice? Clients/patients see you or is it all online?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope, not that either.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 11:07 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Wheel Heavy Weights
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I study Dzogchen. I practice Dzogchen. I translate ancient texts of Dzogchen. I take breaks for food, coffee, wine, sex, sleep, and tv.

DNS said:
How do you make a living? Do you earn income from the translations? Do you make income from teaching? (just curious)

Malcolm wrote:
I don't. No. No.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 5:53 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Wheel Heavy Weights
Content:
CedarTree said:
I proposed this before but there was some hesitation I think maybe now might be a good time on the forum for it.

Astus

Malcolm

Coëmgenu

and other heavyweights *Let's be honest we all know who you are lol*

PuerAzaelis said:
They all secretly PM dzogchungpa for practice advice.

Malcolm wrote:
How did you know?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 5:33 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Wheel Heavy Weights
Content:
CedarTree said:
I proposed this before but there was some hesitation I think maybe now might be a good time on the forum for it.

Astus

Malcolm

Coëmgenu

and other heavyweights *Let's be honest we all know who you are lol*

Tell us about your practice history, what were some big stand out things that you think happened or insights or things you learned or experienced and so forth that helped bring you to where you are now.  And where are you now?  *Meaning what are you doing, studying, practicing, and how do you see your life and practice as well as others and others practices*


Malcolm wrote:
I study Dzogchen. I practice Dzogchen. I translate ancient texts of Dzogchen. I take breaks for food, coffee, wine, sex, sleep, and tv.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: Bon - a form of Buddhism or not?
Content:
pemachophel said:
Gochen Tulku Sang-ngak Ten-dzin gave a long lecture last winter on how sang and prayer flags are not pre-Buddhist but have their roots in the sutras as Buddha vacana. It seemed like He was reading from a text He had written, obviously a rebuttal to currently held beliefs.

Malcolm wrote:
It is likely a text composed by Tsultrim Rinchen, an 18th/19th century Sakya master from East Tibet. I have read it, and its presents a very thin argument which is not even slightly convincing.

It is obvious that sang and so on are adapted practices. The very proof of this is that there are no practices in India where juniper, rhododendron, artemsia, etc. are used as fragrant offerings to purify the practitioner in order to placate local spirits, etc. There are many other things one could say. The reasonings given by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu for why sangs and so on are native Tibetan rites are far more convincing.

Saying that Sang does not come from Bon is like claiming that birthday parties for Tibetans isn't a western custom adopted by Tibetans.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 4:57 AM
Title: Re: Chogyal Namkhai Norbu books and so forth?
Content:


CedarTree said:
Nice, why those ones Malcolm?

Malcolm wrote:
Read them and find out.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 4:39 AM
Title: Re: Chogyal Namkhai Norbu books and so forth?
Content:
CedarTree said:
Great Chogyal Namkhai Norbu dharma talks and what are everyones favorite books writings? and why?

links if possible for dharma talks

Malcolm wrote:
The books Norbu Rinpoche wrote that had the greatest impact on me personally were the Song of the Vajra commentary, the Precious Vase, and Crystal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 4:33 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:



Aryjna said:
Has ChNNR said that it is better to do a ganapuja instead of thun at home?

Thomas Amundsen said:
Everyone does ganapuja on the 10th and 25th days, right?

Motova said:
I thought ChNN said we should do it on Full Moon, Guru Rinpoche Day, New Moon, and Dakini Day.



Thomas Amundsen said:
Everyone does ganapuja on the 10th and 25th days, right?

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, if one is alone one does the full medium thun with protectors instead of ganapuja.



Motova said:
Can you please explain why?

Malcolm wrote:
Because there is no group (gana) with whom one is making offerings (puja). On the other hand, these days they frequently webcast the ganapujas, so you can just get a little tsogs articles and participate that way.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 4:07 AM
Title: Re: Bon - a form of Buddhism or not?
Content:



Mantrik said:
If Bonpo wishes to make a claim to precedence then there must be clear evidence of chronology where a practice existed as Bon before it existed as a Buddhist practice. A  Bon Khyung practice long before any mention of Garuda would maybe do ?

Malcolm wrote:
We have almost no evidence of pre-Buddhist religion in Tibet. Silent rock carvings don't really tell us much, and are extremely hard to date with any accuracy.

Mantrik said:
So, let's clarify:   are you saying there is no evidence that Bon has any claim to chronological precedence for practices which are now common to Bon and Buddhism?

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, apart from those practices such sang offerings, prayer flags and so on that Buddhists recognize come from Bon, and apart from autochthonic gods tamed and claimed by Buddhist as protectors.

We really just have nothing to study and no basis for comparison.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life Transmission: 09/15/17
Content:


fckw said:
My question therefore is:
1. When does one say the 4th vision has been completed or realized? At the culmination point (after stage 1 above), or only once stage 2 is completed as well?
2. Does the second stage have an end, or is going on forever? If so, what is the end?
3. If stage 2 has an end, is there a difference between people who die during this exhaustion process, and those who complete it before death? In other words, are the ones with incomplete exhaustion the ones reaching rainbow body during death, whereas the ones having completed exhaustion reaching it already during life?
4. And most importantly: What is the correct practice when one has reached culmination of stage 1 and is now in the exhaustion process? Does further Tögel practice matter at that stage at all?

Malcolm wrote:
The first part goes up to the third vision.

The second part is the exhaustion of dharmatā.

In part 2, you are still practicing.

You really need to study this with a teacher. It is not beneficial to continue this discussion in a public forum.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 3:51 AM
Title: Re: Bon - a form of Buddhism or not?
Content:



Mantrik said:
If Bonpo wishes to make a claim to precedence then there must be clear evidence of chronology where a practice existed as Bon before it existed as a Buddhist practice. A  Bon Khyung practice long before any mention of Garuda would maybe do ?

Malcolm wrote:
We have almost no evidence of pre-Buddhist religion in Tibet. Silent rock carvings don't really tell us much, and are extremely hard to date with any accuracy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 3:47 AM
Title: Re: What is the origin of this mantra?
Content:
Coëmgenu said:
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.

Some started to believe that "Hoc est corpus meus" was literally a spell that summoned down God as that he could dwell in the bread. They decided to try to use these "magic words" themselves. Hocus Pocus.

That is only one etymology, mind you, but it is a very traditional one. Other people believe there are other origins to the words.

Alternatively some people think that it is a Czech colloquialism. Go figure.

Malcolm wrote:
Hocus Pocus is derogatory. So, it likely was an English phrase from the Reformation meant to belittle Catholics and High Episcopalians.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/hocus-pocus


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 3:28 AM
Title: Re: Bon - a form of Buddhism or not?
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I imagine one could get confused trying to take on paralell tantric practices in Bon and Buddhism also, depending on how much consistency one needs...

Malcolm wrote:
This fact is equally so for Bonpos.

When reading Bonpo texts, most of the terrain is familiar, but certain landmarks are different, causing one to feel like one has entered into a parallel Tibetan universe. For example, in most Tibetan history books, Trisong Detsen is a good guy. In Bon history books he is a bad guy.

Mantrik said:
We know from John Vincent Bellezza and of course ChNN that there were ancient civilisations in Tibet, ancient petroglyphys and pictographs of, for example, Khyung-like images.
Which would you say, Bon or Buddhism, absorbed most of these cultural (animistic?) elements, or maybe both equally?

Malcolm wrote:
We really have no idea what Pre-Buddhist Tibetan religion looked like. If anything, it probably more resembled Scythian religion than anything else.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 1:38 AM
Title: Do Prayer Flags and Sang Offerings etc. Have Their Origin in Bon?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This topisc is split from this thread:

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=27034&start=20

Interesting discussion!

Kevin

Johnny Dangerous said:
I imagine one could get confused trying to take on paralell tantric practices in Bon and Buddhism also, depending on how much consistency one needs...

Malcolm wrote:
This fact is equally so for Bonpos.

When reading Bonpo texts, most of the terrain is familiar, but certain landmarks are different, causing one to feel like one has entered into a parallel Tibetan universe. For example, in most Tibetan history books, Trisong Detsen is a good guy. In Bon history books he is a bad guy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 20th, 2017 at 12:14 AM
Title: Re: Bon - a form of Buddhism or not?
Content:
Dharmasherab said:
Does Bon include the 3 Refuges, the N8FP, the 4NT, the the Thirty-seven Qualities conducive to Enlightenment (Bodhipakkhiyadhamma)?
Does anyone have a definite answer to this question because this is the most important question out of the ones I have asked. Giving reference to support claims would be of immense benefit.

Malcolm wrote:
They have refuge, bodhicitta, mandala offerings, a 100 syllable mantra, guru yoga. They call bhikṣus drang srong; bodhisattvas gyung drung sems dpa', etc.

I have studied a far amount of Bon texts in Tibetan. Generally speaking, apart from using some different terminology, like sras mkhar instead of mandala, there is no difference in meaning. At worst, Bon is true Tibetanization of Indian Buddhism, like Shugendo, etc. At best, it is a complete path of liberation. If you are already practicing Buddhism, you don't need to study and practice Bon. But you have a karmic inclination, you can practice Bon.

The main difference between Bon and Tibetan Buddhism is that Dzogchen view is found sprinkled throughout most levels of Bon teaching, where as in Buddhism, it is only in Anu and Ati yoga.

One thing that will be difficult for most Buddhists to accept is the Bonpo assertion that their tradition is the true source of the Buddhist tradition, claiming various cycles like Vajrakilaya and so on are Bon in origin, and claiming that Buddha Śākyamuni was a disciple of Tonpa Shenrab, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 19th, 2017 at 4:54 AM
Title: Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com
Content:
Tenma said:
What about the Aleister Crowley who practiced occult such as the Key of Solomon and so on?  Working with demons, scrying, magic, sex, and so on are of the path?

Malcolm wrote:
Not our path. Though I personally think Crowley was one of the best of his generation, rascal, though he may have been. 93/93


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 19th, 2017 at 4:52 AM
Title: Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com
Content:
jkarlins said:
fascinating that Blavatsky had real teachers, I always assumed she was just making it up. Cool

Malcolm wrote:
She met some mongolian geshes and misunderstood nearly everything they taught her.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 19th, 2017 at 4:28 AM
Title: Re: Bon - a form of Buddhism or not?
Content:


Dharmasherab said:
It matters because in Vajrayana we take the 3 refuges. Taking refuge in Sangha means not to take non-Buddhists as spiritual guides. When taking empowerments/initiations in Vajrayana it is given to those who have taken certain vows including the 3 Refuges. So if Bon is not classified as a form of Buddhism then there is violation of samaya vows provided if one takes teachings from a Bon master. As for me I would like to see Bon as a form of Buddhism because I can see that Bon seems consistent with Buddhist teachings. However I prefer to know what the real situation is rather than following my feelings.

Malcolm wrote:
The real situation is Bon is just fine.

Some narrow minded Buddhists will think one violated refuge vows by taking Bonpo teachings. But they are narrow minded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 19th, 2017 at 1:28 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life Transmission: 09/15/17
Content:



Aryjna said:
How can it be confirmed by one's guru? By describing to him a specific experience that you think may be rigpa?


Malcolm wrote:
You confirm it for yourself based on paying attention to the guru's instructions. Rigpa means knowledge. When you know, you know. If you have to ask your teacher it means you don't know. There are two things essential for a Dzogchen practitioner to confirm: a moment of unfabricated consciousness free from contamination with concepts— this is the view, trekchö; and vidyā in a direct perception— this is the path, thogal.

Aryjna said:
Thanks. What did you mean by 'and that must be heard from one's guru'?


Malcolm wrote:
You must hear about these things from your teacher, in a proper way, in a proper setting, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 19th, 2017 at 1:16 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life Transmission: 09/15/17
Content:


Aryjna said:
By confirming vidya you mean being beyond doubt (the second point)? Or is it related to thogal?


Malcolm wrote:
Both.

Aryjna said:
How can it be confirmed by one's guru? By describing to him a specific experience that you think may be rigpa?


Malcolm wrote:
You confirm it for yourself based on paying attention to the guru's instructions. Rigpa means knowledge. When you know, you know. If you have to ask your teacher it means you don't know. There are two things essential for a Dzogchen practitioner to confirm: a moment of unfabricated consciousness free from contamination with concepts— this is the view, trekchö; and vidyā in a direct perception— this is the path, thogal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 19th, 2017 at 1:00 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life Transmission: 09/15/17
Content:


Aryjna said:
By confirming vidya you mean being beyond doubt (the second point)? Or is it related to thogal?


Malcolm wrote:
Both.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 19th, 2017 at 12:46 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life Transmission: 09/15/17
Content:
fckw said:
Diligence in doing what? I understand that once the 4th vision is completed, there is no more progress or practice required. Thus, there are 2 possible explanations:
1. The level of realization (i.e. which type of rainbow body) is determined entirely BEFORE  the completion of the 4th vision.
2. After completion of the 4th vision, more practice has the potential to lead to a higher type of rainbow body.

Could you explain, please? I’m confused. Maybe I am misunderstanding something, then I would like to know what it is.

Malcolm wrote:
The two kinds of rainbow body are based on whether you completed the fourth vision in this life, or in the bardo of the time of death.

But all this does not matter much. Even if in this life you only got the second vision, you will still wake up, attain buddhahood in the bardo of dharmatā, i.e. you will finish the fourth vision there. It just takes a longer time in the bardo depending on how much you practiced in this life. At worst, you will wake up in the nirmanakāya buddhafields in your next life without ever returning to samsara again, but this assumes you barely practiced at all.

But all of this is dependent on confirming vidyā in a direct perception, and that must be heard from one's guru.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 19th, 2017 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: Bon - a form of Buddhism or not?
Content:
Dharmasherab said:
I keep hearing conflicting viewpoints as to whether Bon is a type of Buddhism or not. Some Bonpos say that Bon is a type of Buddhism while others say it is distinct from Buddhism. So I have some questions to ask which I have numbered.

1. If Bon is a form of Buddhism then on which grounds is it a form of Buddhism?

Malcolm wrote:
They use the same term we do for describing a fully awakened person, i.e., sangs rgyas.

Dharmasherab said:
2. Does Bon include the 3 Refuges, the N8FP, the 4NT, the the Thirty-seven Qualities conducive to Enlightenment (Bodhipakkhiyadhamma)?

Malcolm wrote:
More or less, it is the same.

Dharmasherab said:
3. If Bon is not considered a form of Buddhism, then on which grounds is it not a form of Buddhism?

Malcolm wrote:
Most Buddhists absolutely doubt the origin story of Bon. Then there is the fact that of all the Bonpo texts we have at present, none can be dated earlier than the early 10th century. Bonpos will and do claim the reason for this is a result of suppression of Bon by the Tibetan court in the early 9th century.

The Bonpos who say Bon is different than Buddhism are making this distinction based on outer form. Those who say it is the same are making this identification based on inner essence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 11:57 PM
Title: Re: Question about transmission and pointing-out instructions
Content:
Rick said:
"Yes transmissions can be delivered remotely via Skype?"

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 11:09 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life Transmission: 09/15/17
Content:
fckw said:
What then makes the difference that some are able to realize a higher level of rainbow body than others?

Malcolm wrote:
Diligence in this life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 12:30 PM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:



cloudburst said:
To be less sloppy, horns of rabbits can NOT actually be known by mind, as such a thing never existed. You could perhaps apprehend a generic image of Rabbit horns.

The point is that cessations and space, of course, do exist.

Malcolm wrote:
They have the same existence as anything which cannot be/is not produced. They simply don't. The example for how things exist is space. The example for how space exists is hair on a tortoise— it just doesn't grow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 12:29 PM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:



cloudburst said:
Namkhai Norbu said
The calm state is the condition of the mind in which no thoughts arise. An example of this is the space that exists between the disappearance of one thought and the arising of another, a space that is usually imperceptible.

Malcolm wrote:
The term "space" here is not nam mkha'. The term here is " bar." In other words, this is describing the gap between two thoughts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 6:13 AM
Title: Re: False Memories and Questionable Buddhist Lore
Content:



Leo Rivers said:
First is a teaching where he "says"  "There have been Religions and Philosophies for thousands of years, yet human character and the consequences of human conduct remain unchanged. Therefore I say we must apply ourselves to our own salvation."

Malcolm wrote:
This seems to be  mashup of a statement by bertrand russel about human knowledge vs. human wisdom.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 4:57 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life Transmission: 09/15/17
Content:
fckw said:
My question is simply this: Once someone has gone through the fourth vision in terms of Dzogchen is there any sort of further development thereafter?

Malcolm wrote:
No. At this point you attain samyaksambuddhahood and you are done.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
Anyway it is strange to assert that all sides agree to the conventional truth that Nirvana is attained but at the same time it’s forbidden to assert cessation exists even conventionally.

Seems pointless.


Malcolm wrote:
Who says we agree on this? I don't. As Nāgārjuna points out, since there are no aggregates in nirvana, what person could there be to attain it?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 4:15 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
Oh, well, if space is by definition an unconditioned dharma, even conventionally, then certainly there’s nothing to debate.

Malcolm wrote:
Space is by definition one of the three unconditioned dharmas. There is also conditioned space, such as cavities and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 4:04 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I don't accept that space etc., are existents even in the sloppy everyday context.

PuerAzaelis said:
You must exist in a really bizarre world beyond space and time then, like Schroedinger’s cat.

Malcolm wrote:
Wrong space. Not talking about space in Einsteins relativity, we are talking about unconditioned dharmas. I think you ought to try rereading the analysis of the elements in MMK again.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 4:02 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:



cloudburst said:
ha ha!  cute



congratulations.
My point here is that terms can be used in different ways at different times and we mustn't try to win arguments by pretending we dont know that. Even people like CNN use the term existent in the sloppy sense when context is relevant.


Malcolm wrote:
I don't accept that space etc., are existents even in the sloppy everyday context.

cloudburst said:
if you dont believe cessations can be known by mind, in the everyday conventional sense of course,  I suppose theres not much that can be done for you.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't accept that everything that can be "known by a mind" needs to be an existent in a formal sense.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 3:54 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Horns of rabbits can be known by the mind as well, therefore you have accept they are existents by your definition.

cloudburst said:
ha ha!  cute

Malcolm wrote:
When I talk about these things, I use Dharma language, not sloppy everyday language.

cloudburst said:
congratulations.
My point here is that terms can be used in different ways at different times and we mustn't try to win arguments by pretending we dont know that. Even people like CNN use the term existent in the sloppy sense when context is relevant.


Malcolm wrote:
I don't accept that space etc., are existents even in the sloppy everyday context.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 3:21 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:


cloudburst said:
you support my point that we are using the term existent in different senses. You are using it as a translation of Ngowo, we are using it to mean that which can be known by mind.

Malcolm wrote:
Horns of rabbits can be known by the mind as well, therefore you have accept they are existents by your definition. When I talk about these things, I use Dharma language, not sloppy everyday language.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 2:59 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
The only way one can argue that space and cessations are existents is to accept the existence of nonarising existents, which of course eliminates one's ability to refute atmans, and other permanently functional phenomena.


cloudburst said:
This is that same old nonsense, the term "existent" is being equivocated. Space and cessations are non-arising, or permanent phenomena, and they are phenomena that can be known by mind, and therefore they exist in the conventional sense.

space and cessations are not permanently functional, they are not functional things. Atman can be refuted easily.

Malcolm wrote:
The word "phenomena" and the term "existent" are deceptive. The term " dharma " ( chos ) means, in this context, that which bears characteristics. Holding that space is an existent ( vastu, dngos po ) is totally wrongheaded.

However, space is a dharma because it has a characteristic, absence of impediment. The characteristic of cessation is absence of arising. Thus, since these three dharmas are unproduced, they cannot be held to be existents.

In other words, all existents are dharmas, but not all dharmas are existents.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 1:42 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
Norwegian said:
Can you cite the part of the MMK which proves your assertion that cessations are existent phenomena? Citing Chandrakirti or Buddhapalita (their commentaries) for example, is also fine.
Thanks.

PuerAzaelis said:
It would be Tsongkhapa's reading of Chapter 24 in its entirety.

The whole point is that according to him conventional phenomena are not negated by Madhyamika reasoning.

Malcolm wrote:
Conventionally, space and cessations are not products, so this does not support the idea that space and cessations are existents.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 1:10 AM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:
Queequeg said:
Perhaps the source of this reference was an explanation that the translator gave which ended up getting worked into the translation. This would not be unheard of for commentary to be added... Speculative.

Malcolm wrote:
Another thing that happens, at least in Tibetan texts, is that marginalia is sometimes mistakenly incorporated into the text. Your scenario is also possible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 18th, 2017 at 12:56 AM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
Bristollad said:
We disagree.


Malcolm wrote:
It is not a question of agreement or disagreement, it is a question of basic definitions which come from Abhidharma.

The question of whether space and cessations were existents was settled a thousand years before Tsongkhapa.

The only way one can argue that space and cessations are existents is to accept the existence of nonarising existents, which of course eliminates one's ability to refute atmans, and other permanently functional phenomena.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting niner niner niner in an attempt to drown out counterfactual statements just makes you look like a kid.

Bristollad said:
Or someone who prefers to listen to his own teachers from his own tradition rather than someone on a blog who is known to disagree strongly with that tradition

Whatever, the floor is yours.

Malcolm wrote:
In the study of Buddhadharma, it is not sufficient to learn catechisms, using the excuse, "this is how my teacher taught it." For example, I agree with Sakya Pandita about many things, but not everything.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 17th, 2017 at 11:59 PM
Title: Re: Question about transmission and pointing-out instructions
Content:
Rick said:
This might be a ridiculously naive question (seems to be my specialty) but here goes:

Can one receive formal transmissions and pointing-out instructions from a qualified teacher remotely, over an electronic medium such as Skype?

If not ... are people who cannot travel to the teacher's actual location flat out of luck (in this lifetime)?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 17th, 2017 at 11:59 PM
Title: Re: Source of Indra's Net?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
As far as I can tell, Indra's net is an interpolation into the Chinese edition. It does not exist in the Tibetan edition of this sūtra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 17th, 2017 at 11:04 PM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:
Bristollad said:
We disagree.


Malcolm wrote:
It is not a question of agreement or disagreement, it is a question of basic definitions which come from Abhidharma.

The question of whether space and cessations were existents was settled a thousand years before Tsongkhapa.

The only way one can argue that space and cessations are existents is to accept the existence of nonarising existents, which of course eliminates one's ability to refute atmans, and other permanently functional phenomena.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting niner niner niner in an attempt to drown out counterfactual statements just makes you look like a kid.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 17th, 2017 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: Rabbit's Horns
Content:



Bristollad said:
But cessations are existent phenomena...

Malcolm wrote:
No, they are not. They do not arise from causes and conditions. Why? Because they do not arise.

To be existent is to be conditioned. Neither space nor the two cessations are conditioned.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 17th, 2017 at 10:29 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life Transmission: 09/15/17
Content:
fckw said:
After reading through the book, I have one nagging question that so far nobody could really give me a clear answer for. As I understand things, when someone has realized the 4th vision then the person has achieved basis enlightenment. However, the book clearly mentions stages even for buddhas (p 207). So, my question is: What happens after basis enlightenment? A teacher once explained that it's like a pot which held onions for a long time. When you remove the onions, it cannot be more emptied of onions anymore. However, a smell remains for some time until completely dissolved.
Thus, if I interpret things correctly, then after basis enlightenment, a buddha enters a process of, let's call it, path enlightenment. This is - again, according to my understanding - what the whole chapter 11 in the book is really about. The great stage of liberation is really a process of completely exhausting all remainders. Whereas from one perspective nothing can be exhausted (after all, that's the whole point of having completed the 4th vision), from another perspective there usually are remainders like the smell of onions, and not yet all dharmatas are exhausted at the beginning. It seems that only extremely few practitioners are able to complete this process fully before death. Those who don't complete before death, complete at death. Those extremely few who complete before death then, as a consequence, are able to realize the second type of the three rainbow bodies.

Can anyone knowledgeable comment if this understanding is correct?

Malcolm wrote:
Not sure where you are coming up with these terms "basis enlightenment" and "path enlightenment."

The difference between buddhas of the 11th and 12th bhumi and the rest is that the former have not realized all phenomena as a display of pristine consciousness and the latter have. But in general, bhumis measure qualities rather than realizations. In particular, in this book, the 16 stages are analogues of the common paths and stages, but are not actually identical with them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 17th, 2017 at 4:18 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Miroku said:
Find sth you are interested in. For example yantra yoga, dance of vajra, SMS, Mandarava, anything. But be present and do gy and sov every day. Maybe small retreat on some semdzin or rushen would help. And do ganapujas even if alone.

Aryjna said:
Has ChNNR said that it is better to do a ganapuja instead of thun at home?

Thomas Amundsen said:
Everyone does ganapuja on the 10th and 25th days, right?

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, if one is alone one does the full medium thun with protectors instead of ganapuja.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 17th, 2017 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life Transmission: 09/15/17
Content:
Grigoris said:
Guess what came in today?

IMG_20171006_235348.jpg



Malcolm wrote:
Hope you enjoy it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 5:38 AM
Title: Re: Non-conceptual thoughts ... ?
Content:


Rick said:
You bite into a perfectly ripe mango. BOOM! All is mango. How is that taste, that purely subjective experience/quale ... how is that conceptual?

Malcolm wrote:
When the object meets the sense organ, there is a present, nonconceptual cognition arising from contact called sensation (it is also one of the skandhas). After that, in the next moment, there is recognition of what that object is. All sensation is nonconceptual (first moment). All recognition of sensation is conceptual (second moment).

When you are burned by a stove, for example, you only snatch your hand away when you recognize the sensation of burning.

Rick said:
The reason I wrote this is that aflatun said that he thought you said that all experience is conceptual. Is that your view? If it is, then you are calling the pure sensation not-experience and the recognition/reaction to the sensation experience. Why?

Malcolm wrote:
Experience is conceptual since in order to be an experience a direct perception has to be recognized. For example, we have nonconceptual direct perceptions of all kinds of things throughout the day, but we don't experience them until we notice them, either in the moment or later on.

Rick said:
experience
noun
1 qualifications and experience: skill, knowledge, practical knowledge, understanding; background, record, history; maturity, worldliness, sophistication; informal know-how.
2 an enjoyable experience: incident, occurrence, event, happening, episode; adventure, exploit, escapade.
3 his first experience of business: involvement in, participation in, contact with, acquaintance with, exposure to, observation of, awareness of, insight into.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 2:12 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Minobu said:
those are not the same as using the word slogan in your context  to describe Tien Tai's doctrine of Ichinen Sanzen  and to do so is rude and boorish

Malcolm wrote:
Not my intent to offend, sorry if you took offense.

We also have another slogan, from Santideva, "Treat the angry one like a king, the desirous one like a child."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 2:06 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Queequeg said:
Come now, Malcolm. No need to get all personal. Who's emotional? Do you really think I'm worked up about this? I just told a joke to leaven the mood.

I sincerely do hope Jikai leads the study of Mohezhikuan here at DW, or wherever he chooses to do. And I sincerely hope you will follow along because I would be very interested for your take.


Malcolm wrote:
well, it was like pulling teeth for you to admit that the slogan, ichinen zanzen, cannot be taken at face value. If it is read literally, it really does not transcend cittamatra.

Minobu said:
lol....
ok so i shall remind you constantly about the use or non use of the word slogan by you. lol...
it will be great to see in other venues online...lol..

Malcom defines Budha Dharma as a bunch of slogans...

the three jewels is just a slogan over used by some...

Mind only school, just a slogan out of tune with Dzogchen ...
Karma , the ultimate slogan to describe everything from illness to lack of finding a parking spot.

Om Mane Padme Hum
Lord Avolikitashvara's slogan of choice...

wacth for this topic coming to other venues online.

roflamo...
malcolm do you believe yourself ...is this really just the use of a word...is there no ulterior motive in using it in this section... have you used it in other sections..
be honest now...

cause it might be just a tad emotional of you.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, we call a whole section of Kadampa  Mind Training statements slogans, things like, "Take all blame into oneself." "Don't turn a god into a demon." "Don't put the load of a yak on a dzo," "At all times, be a child of illusion," and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 2:00 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Minobu said:
it' has nothing to do with the post and all to do with triggers and deflection...

Malcolm wrote:
Says the most emotional poster of all on DW, apart from smcj...and possibly, mark rogow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 1:57 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Queequeg said:
Come now, Malcolm. No need to get all personal. Who's emotional? Do you really think I'm worked up about this? I just told a joke to leaven the mood.


Malcolm wrote:
well, it was like pulling teeth for you to admit that the slogan, ichinen zanzen, cannot be taken at face value. If it is read literally, it really does not transcend cittamatra.

Queequeg said:
I sincerely do hope Jikai leads the study of Mohezhikuan here at DW, or wherever he chooses to do. And I sincerely hope you will follow along because I would be very interested for your take.

Malcolm wrote:
When it comes to sūtra studies, there is nothing in Tibetan, Chinese, or Japanese Buddhism which is not already addressed and settled by Indian masters.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Queequeg said:
Tientai is a radically omnicentric view, meaning any dharma can be the reference point.

Malcolm wrote:
So here you are claiming b) the statement requires further interpretation and cannot be taken at face value.

You guys really should learn how to debate issues with less emotion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:



Queequeg said:
Explain to me why your speculation on a "slogan" deserves more?

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a speculation. The statement literally reads, as promulgated everywhere, "three thousands worlds are included a moment of mind."

Since the basic cittamatra statement is, "The three realms are mind only" I see no difference since three realms includes everything included in the three thousands worlds. Is there something included in the "three thousand worlds" of the slogan that is not included in the triloka/tridhātu?

Queequeg said:
Yes.


Malcolm wrote:
So, what is not included in the three realms in this statement? Anything? Keep it tight, cute analogies need not apply since they have no rigor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 1:12 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
narhwal90 said:
The triloka seems to have a different focus; various dimensions of form.  There seems to be a general correspondence in some respects eg stages towards nirvana, but I think ichinen sanzen is working from a different angle with different predicates.

Malcolm wrote:
Either Ichinen Sanzen reduces all possible phenomena to a single moment of mind, or it does not. A) If it does, then the slogan does not go beyond cittamatra. B) If it is does not, then the slogan needs futher interpretation . You must accept either a or b, since there is no third alternative.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:


Queequeg said:
Sigh. I don't mean to be dismissive, but that is a load of horse poop.

Malcolm wrote:
Wow, what a decisive, well thought out refutation.

Queequeg said:
Explain to me why your speculation on a "slogan" deserves more?

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a speculation. The statement literally reads, as promulgated everywhere, "three thousands worlds are included a moment of mind."

Since the basic cittamatra statement is, "The three realms are mind only" I see no difference since three realms includes everything included in the three thousands worlds. Is there something included in the "three thousand worlds" of the slogan that is not included in the triloka/tridhātu?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 12:36 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:


Queequeg said:
Sigh. I don't mean to be dismissive, but that is a load of horse poop.

Malcolm wrote:
Wow, what a decisive, well thought out refutation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 12:07 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
narhwal90 said:
The 3 factor of the 3000 includes; the 5 factors (form,perception,conception,volition,consciousness), the realm of living beings, the environment- so seems to incorporate more than mind only, but also its action and where it operates.

Malcolm wrote:
If all of this is included in a moment of mind, it just does not go beyond cittamatra.

Recall, the basic assertion of cittamatra is "The three realms are only mind." This includes everything, buddhas, sentient beings, grass, trees, hell beings, the lot.

Now, if this mind is itself held to be empty, lacking any nature, then that is a different thing; and this statement cannot be considered complete in and of itself. If this mind is also empty (and given that it is momentary, it must be dependently originated) then Tien tai view would be akin to Yogacāra Madhyamaka, and would not go beyond that.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 16th, 2017 at 12:04 AM
Title: Re: Sastavadava and ucchedavada
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
Would it be valid to ever use "order" and "chaos" for these terms?

Malcolm wrote:
No.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Sastavadava and ucchedavada
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
What is the etymology of these words? The reason I ask is that I heard that they relate to the question of whether the fruit definitely results from (sastavadava) or does not dependably result from (ucchedavada) the seed. Hence they pertain more to a view of causation rather than existence.

Malcolm wrote:
The original usage is the one I gave. However, there are many implications that can be drawn.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 11:16 PM
Title: Re: Sastavadava and ucchedavada
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
We are told that eternalism is the translation of "sastavadava" and nihilism is "ucchedavada".

Is there a reliable source for a literal translation of these terms? What do they actually mean?

Malcolm wrote:
Ucchedavāda means "those who advocate cutting off," that is annihilation rather than nihilism. It is the assertion that since the person ceases at death, there is no karma, not future lives, etc.

Śaśvatavāda is the assertion that an entity, an atman, a world, etc., is permanent and undergoes no change, hence eternalism.

Both positions contradict dependent origination, the middle way.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:


Queequeg said:
Mind only reduces to mind. One point of difference is that Zhiyi specifically identified this as bias. Moment of mind is also included in x, then moment of mind is identical with x and cannot exist apart from x. Therefore three thousand realms are a moment of mind.

Malcolm wrote:
The assertion does not work that way. The assertion is not that a moment of mind exists in three thousand x's. What this assertion is basically saying is that everything, all possible existences, from hell to buddhahood, are included in a single moment of mind. This assertion does not go beyond cittamatra. If this assertion is the pinnacle of Tien tai thinking, then Tien tai does not go beyond cittamatra, no matter how hard one tries to fight one's way out of the bag.

Queequeg said:
Well M, all I can say is, thank you for your final pronouncement on Zhiyi.

In all seriousness, hopefully Jikai will be able to lead the discussion on Mohezhikuan as planned and you will join us.


Malcolm wrote:
It was not a final pronouncement, since I rather doubt all of Tien tai thought can be reduced to this slogan. However, on the face of it, the slogan that "three thousand worlds are included in a moment of mind" does not go beyond cittamatra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 10:53 PM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:



Queequeg said:
I don't think it's that simple.

I recall reading Bertrand Russel suggest we only think in metaphors. Maybe more like tropes. "A is like this, B is like this", but all of them just approximations.

It's more radical than mind only.


Malcolm wrote:
If you say that x is included in a moment of mind, then x is identical with that moment of mind and cannot exist apart from that moment of mind. Therefore, it is just cittamatra.

Queequeg said:
Mind only reduces to mind. One point of difference is that Zhiyi specifically identified this as bias. Moment of mind is also included in x, then moment of mind is identical with x and cannot exist apart from x. Therefore three thousand realms are a moment of mind.

Malcolm wrote:
The assertion does not work that way. The assertion is not that a moment of mind exists in three thousand x's. What this assertion is basically saying is that everything, all possible existences, from hell to buddhahood, are included in a single moment of mind. This assertion does not go beyond cittamatra. If this assertion is the pinnacle of Tien tai thinking, then Tien tai does not go beyond cittamatra, no matter how hard one tries to fight one's way out of the bag.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: Shakyamuni: A Narrative of Faith
Content:
illarraza said:
Error

Malcolm wrote:
More like a bluescreen, I'd say.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 10:46 PM
Title: Re: Non-conceptual thoughts ... ?
Content:


Rick said:
You bite into a perfectly ripe mango. BOOM! All is mango. How is that taste, that purely subjective experience/quale ... how is that conceptual?

Malcolm wrote:
...When the object meets the sense organ, there is a present, nonconceptual cognition arising from contact called sensation

aflatun said:
sensation=vedana?
After that, in the next moment, there is recognition of what that object is. All sensation is nonconceptual (first moment). All recognition of sensation is conceptual (second moment).
recognition = sanna?


Malcolm wrote:
Sure.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 10:31 PM
Title: Re: Non-conceptual thoughts ... ?
Content:
aflatun said:
I believe Malcolm has said that all experience is conceptual (elsewhere). I happen to agree with this: conceptual, but of course not necessarily discursive.

Rick said:
You bite into a perfectly ripe mango. BOOM! All is mango. How is that taste, that purely subjective experience/quale ... how is that conceptual?

Malcolm wrote:
When the object meets the sense organ, there is a present, nonconceptual cognition arising from contact called sensation (it is also one of the skandhas). After that, in the next moment, there is recognition of what that object is. All sensation is nonconceptual (first moment). All recognition of sensation is conceptual (second moment).

When you are burned by a stove, for example, you only snatch your hand away when you recognize the sensation of burning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 10:12 PM
Title: Re: Dakini Script?
Content:
Motova said:
From Dangerous Friend: The Teacher-Student Relationship in Vajrayana Buddhism by Rig'dzin Dorje:

Page 28:

"Khenpo Sonam Tobgyal demonstrated this in the most profound manner by attending Ngak'chang Rinpoche's teaching on chod (gCod) at Pema 'oSel Ling and receiving from him the empowerments of Troma Nakmo and Machig Labdron."

http://www.riwoche.com/SonamRinpoche.html

Before that the author mentions many other well known Rinpoche's supporting Ngak’chang Rinpoche, I'm just going to bed so someone else can post that.

Malcolm wrote:
It's the wrong Khenpo Sonam. The Khenpo Sonam Tobgyal who attended that empowerment is this fellow:




How do I know? We discussed it and he was a resident at Pema Osal Ling at the time. Further, Lama Tarchin, while friends with Chogyam, did not invite him to teach, but rather, the Aro folks rented POL for their event.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
illarraza said:
"The essence of the sutras preached before the Lotus Sutra is that all phenomena arise from the mind. To illustrate, they say that the mind is like the great earth, while the grasses and trees are like all phenomena.


Malcolm wrote:
This simply means that mental factors (caittas) are mind (citta), rather than being something other than the mind.  But ichinen sanzen is still a mind-only doctrine and cannot go beyond mind since it asserts that all phenomena are included in a moment of mind.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 10:02 PM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:


rory said:
Malcolm doesn't understand Tiantai philosophy which involves ichinen sanzen 3,000 worlds in one thought moment.

Malcolm wrote:
It's just a version of cittamatra, a.k.a, mind only.

Queequeg said:
I don't think it's that simple.

I recall reading Bertrand Russel suggest we only think in metaphors. Maybe more like tropes. "A is like this, B is like this", but all of them just approximations.

It's more radical than mind only.


Malcolm wrote:
If you say that x is included in a moment of mind, then x is identical with that moment of mind and cannot exist apart from that moment of mind. Therefore, it is just cittamatra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 9:30 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:


rory said:
Malcolm doesn't understand Tiantai philosophy which involves ichinen sanzen 3,000 worlds in one thought moment.

Malcolm wrote:
It's just a version of cittamatra, a.k.a, mind only.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 5:06 AM
Title: Re: receiving transmission
Content:
lee said:
wow thank you for all the book suggestions,

i actually have most of them

iv just purchased the precious vase as well.

im going to settle back down now and just read what i already have that is not restricted and then go to the pundarika retreats, in terms of sms i think that might have to wait as weekly travels to london is fairly far for me right now.

can secondary practices from other traditions be used? i already have a deep background in alchemic practices and was wondering if that could be used as secondary itself?


Malcolm wrote:
Secondary practices means the thun practices like the short thun, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 4:16 AM
Title: Re: Morality of stockholding
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Index funds.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 3:07 AM
Title: Re: Dont follow a lineage (etc.), follow a teacher
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You apparently missed the word "qualified."

Astus said:
That word was not used in that post.

Malcolm wrote:
The post was lifted from another thread.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 15th, 2017 at 2:58 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Unknown said:
like i said you have had almost a thousand years of degenerate times to build a plethora of Buddhas...show me the money...

Malcolm wrote:
Go to Tibet. You will find many buddhas there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 11:09 PM
Title: Re: Dont follow a lineage (etc.), follow a teacher
Content:


Astus said:
That sounds to be the very opposite of one of the four reliances:

Malcolm wrote:
You apparently missed the word "qualified."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 8:55 PM
Title: Re: receiving transmission
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Some people think that having a guru is like having a personal tutor. It is not like that. I suggest you take a gradual approach, hook up with an SMS teacher, read The Precious Vase, and begin that way. Step by step.

Aryjna said:
I have a related question about that. How do you hook up with an SMS teacher? I have emailed one that lives in the city I am currently in and asked a few questions and received answers, but I don't think they have the time for personal meetings or even frequent emails. Attending a yantra yoga group is something that I want to do but the local one is temporarily on hold.

Malcolm wrote:
You should try a communicate with an SMS study group lead by an SMS teacher.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 8:54 PM
Title: Re: Empowerments from different lineages
Content:
MatthewAngby said:
Hello guys! I am planning to receive a empowerment from the Drikung Kagyu lineage.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, actually you are planning to receive an empowerment from a Drikung Kagyu guru. The guru is what counts here. Your motivation should be to receive teachings from this person, not their lineage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 8:43 PM
Title: Re: receiving transmission
Content:
lee said:
well i attended the wwt yesterday but am also going to be going to the pundarika retreat next year.

My main need for wanting to know the structure of dzogchen is simply because the books i have read so far talk about learning exactly what dzogchen is prior to having a direct introduction.

Malcolm wrote:
What books have you read so far?

lee said:
i have no experience in Buddhism or anything. so advice is really appreciated,

Malcolm wrote:
Ok, well, first you will probably want some grounding in Buddhism. For example, if you do not know what emptiness is, for example, according to Madhyamaka, you will never understand trekchö, let along thögal. You are trying to run before you have even learned to crawl.

lee said:
i am a member of the dzogchen community, but the size of it puts me off. I read that the student has to have a connection with the master or teacher, and something that big is surely going to pose hard to have a connection with the teacher.

Malcolm wrote:
Some people think that having a guru is like having a personal tutor. It is not like that. I suggest you take a gradual approach, hook up with an SMS teacher, read The Precious Vase, and begin that way. Step by step.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 8:17 PM
Title: Re: receiving transmission
Content:
lee said:
and what are the basics, i seem to be asking things about the basics but seem to not be getting anywhere.

Malcolm wrote:
Since the Great Perfection is part of Secret Mantra, it is not really permissible to discuss these things openly in a public forum. Sorry.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 8:16 PM
Title: Re: receiving transmission
Content:
lee said:
so with the practice of dzogchen i can literally use any type of practice, as long as it enables one to recognise and cultivate the state of rigpa?

Malcolm wrote:
Rigpa is what does the recognition. What it recognizes is the basis. The basis is the nature of the mind.

lee said:
so if theirs no actual structure then why does such practices like trekcho and togal require certain experience that is not simply just a deep experience in rigpa, they are the two practices of dzogchen, and if dzogchen has no structure surely that means that anyone who has a deep recognition and experience in rigpa can practice.

Malcolm wrote:
Where did you ever get the idea Great Perfection teachings have no structure?

You cannot practice trekchö unless you understand the view, since the view is trekchö. Without understanding the view, you cannot practice the meditation, thögal.

Without a proper teacher, you will just lead yourself deeper in error about the meaning of Great Perfection teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 5:52 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
But there is no buddhahood through vehicles of intellectual analysis or based on words written down on paper. The real sūtra has no letters. True buddhahood does not come from mind. The real result has no cause.

Queequeg said:
I agree with this with caveats: that the real sutra is also not exclusive of letters;

Malcolm wrote:
It's exclusive of letters. Sūtra means "thread." The "thread" under discussion here is the nature of the mind, this is the buddhahood that does not come from mind; as it has never been produced, it is the result without a cause.

This nature of the mind will never be discovered by reading books, any book. Even the Lotus Sutra. The White Lotus of the True Dharma is not a book and is not contained in letters.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 5:16 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:


Minobu said:
it no longer is the time or place for this stuff malcolm...it doesn't really lead these people to Buddhahood ...

Malcolm wrote:
Of course it does. Those people of highest capacity will attain buddhahood in this life; if they are a bit lazy, then in the bardo; and if they are lazier still, then in a natural nirmanakāya buddhafield.

But there is no buddhahood through vehicles of intellectual analysis or based on words written down on paper. The real sūtra has no letters. True buddhahood does not come from mind. The real result has no cause.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 5:06 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Minobu said:
the degenerate times are here..and only the Lotus sutra will lead to Buddhahood. as taught by Lord Sakyamuni Buddha

Malcolm wrote:
On the contrary, only direct perception of dharmatā leads to buddhahood has taught by the Buddha. Everything else is just intellectual analysis.

Minobu said:
You are speaking from texts that no longer can  lead to Buddhahood

Malcolm wrote:
No, I am speaking from the point of view of the intimate instruction that does not arise from any scripture about the result that does not arise from a cause that is the buddhahood that does not arise from the mind.

But, far be it from me to influence you in any way.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 5:00 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Queequeg said:
And when the shining takes the form of the Buddha setting out to turn the wheel, then it takes the form of the Buddha setting out to turn the wheel, which is a decision to take action (even if that decision is all part of a show the Buddha puts on.) Similarly, a bodhisattva or even an ordinary person who conveys merely a line of Dharma for others.

Malcolm wrote:
Wishfulfilling gems don't take actions or make decisions, they mere respond spontaneously to the wishes of others. So it is with buddhas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:





Malcolm wrote:
So what he is saying here is that any evidence of trauma on the part of the student is evidence of a defect in the teacher's skillful means. Right?

Pero said:
I think so but I actually think trauma can also be beneficial in specific (rare) cases. I'm looking at my own experience here, having experienced something traumatic a couple years back. Looking back now it was like I was asleep (in life while awake) and then someone woke me up, not by whispering my name (which probably wouldn't have worked) but by hitting me with a sledgehammer. This is kind of tangentialy related to the topic because it occured to me recently that at that time a single email from my teacher (since I asked him for advice, he did not cause the trauma - just in case there is some confusion hehe) influenced the direction of my life to this point. My traumatic experience plus his advice ended up being positive for me long-term even though back then I realy couldn't see anything good about my experience at all.


Malcolm wrote:
I don't think we are talking about healthy shocks, I think we are talking about people being traumatized by mistreatment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 3:55 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Minobu said:
the degenerate times are here..and only the Lotus sutra will lead to Buddhahood. as taught by Lord Sakyamuni Buddha

Malcolm wrote:
On the contrary, only direct perception of dharmatā leads to buddhahood has taught by the Buddha. Everything else is just intellectual analysis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
DGA said:
I think you and Malcolm are closer than you might think.  See below, the bolded part:




Malcolm wrote:
Sure it does. Karma is unerring.

One cannot convert people to the Dharma. One can only provide an opportunity for them to hear it, if they so choose. That is all the Buddha did, and that is all we can do as well. If they have the merit to follow the Dharma, they will, and there is virtually nothing we need to do from our side other than make it available.

DGA said:
How is that not "the particular circumstances of the time"?

Queequeg said:
Sure. I think there is more flexibility on my end than Malcolm's. It might be more appropriate for you to address him.

"First, there seems to be a notion among Buddhists that active propagation is not a Buddhist thing to do. That instead, Buddha dharma should spread passively - like osmosis. I think this is incorrect."

Malcolm came out confirming the propriety of the passive method, stating that it is in fact correct. It's not that I think the passive approach is incorrect, but limiting to the passive approach is incorrect.

For me, providing an opportunity can encompass more engagement, more action. Malcolm has made clear on other occasions that he disagrees.


Malcolm wrote:
The Dharma is like a wishfulfilling gem. Wishfulfilling gems must be found, they do not advertise, other than by shining rather more brightly than other gems.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 2:38 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Queequeg said:
All Malcolm is saying, "If the time is right, the time is right."

Says nothing about the particular circumstances of the time.

Our progress on the path is both prompting from without and from within. Nothing that Malcolm proposes has any definitive say on what prompting from without out looks like.

Malcolm wrote:
Time is also a function of our own merit. We have the merit to be born during the dispensation of a supreme nirmanakāya. But that merit does not come from outside. It comes from our own roots of virtue.

In terms of the eighteen qualities of a perfect human birth, there are ten endowments; five are personal, five are external. According to Nāgārjuna, the five personal endowments are:

A human, born in the central country, complete sense organs, 
not engaging in wrong livelihood, faith in the object

The five external endowments are:

The Buddha has arrived, he has taught the Dharma, 
the doctrine exists, there are followers of that, 
and there is kindheartedness towards others.

In order to enjoy these ten endowments, one must have the eight freedoms:

Birth as one holding wrong views, as animals, pretas, and hell beings, 
as one without the teaching of the victor, or in a border country,
birth as a barbarian, as one stupid and dumb,
or birth as any of the long-lived gods
are the eight faults of lacking freedom. 
Having acquired the freedom that is liberated from those states.
one must make effort in order to avoid them.

As such, converting others is impossible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 2:10 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Queequeg said:
Yeah, Malcolm. I get what you are saying. It still doesn't add up to an answer.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure it does. Karma is unerring.

One cannot convert people to the Dharma. One can only provide an opportunity for them to hear it, if they so choose. That is all the Buddha did, and that is all we can do as well. If they have the merit to follow the Dharma, they will, and there is virtually nothing we need to do from our side other than make it available.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 2:00 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Pero said:
...In other words, the results of genuine “crazy wisdom” are always positive and visible. When a teacher uses an extreme approach that is rooted in compassion, the result is spiritual growth, not trauma. Trauma is a sure sign that the “crazy wisdom” behavior was missing the wisdom to see what would truly benefit the student, the compassion that puts the student’s interest first, or both.


Malcolm wrote:
So what he is saying here is that any evidence of trauma on the part of the student is evidence of a defect in the teacher's skillful means. Right?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 1:57 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:
Queequeg said:
You can't say that an active and engaging approach to the propagation of dharma is incorrect for the simple fact that people have connected to dharma through such methods.

Malcolm wrote:
They had the merit to meet the Dharma. Plain and simple. If they had not cultivated roots of merit to meet the Dharma they 1) would not be born in a place where the Dharma existed 2) would not be interested in the Dharma even slightly.

This does not mean of course, that one should silently remain in one's house. But it does mean that only those people with the roots of merit to meet the Dharma will meet it and embrace it. In places where it is hard for the Dharma to take root, one can presume that that place is not a place where there are people with merit to take up the Dharma in this life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 1:51 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Pero said:
we don't visualize our teachers in their ordinary form because we generally don't really have such pure vision.

Malcolm wrote:
100% correct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 1:30 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Grigoris said:
And, yes, I think it is practical because nobody is saying that you cannot receive teachings from this person (and others) in the meantime, nor are they saying that you cannot practice.  The 12 years is to see if you wish to devote yourself completely to the teacher.  Once you have taken the time and you have made the decision then when they say jump, you should jump without question, because after 12 years you know they are not fraking you around.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it really means you should not take empowerments from a teacher whom you have not (ideally) known about for a period of 12 years.

Sakya Pandita points however this is not always wise, because sometimes the student dies or the teacher dies before this period of time is up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 1:03 AM
Title: Re: Shakabuku Woes
Content:


Queequeg said:
First, there seems to be a notion among Buddhists that active propagation is not a Buddhist thing to do. That instead, Buddha dharma should spread passively - like osmosis. I think this is incorrect.

Malcolm wrote:
It is completely correct. People who have the merit to meet Buddhadharma will meet it. It is that simple. No amount of convincing others will bring them to the Dharma. Not only this, there are myriad other places in the universe where one can meet the Dharma, not only here on this planet. Jambudvipa incidentally, refers only to India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
While it's not clear how literally it is intended to be taken I think it is indicative of a traditional persepctive that is at least worthy of consideration.

Malcolm wrote:
It means that one needs to take quite seriously from whom one is going to take teachings. But of course what I do not accept is Dudjom Rinpoche's assertion that this means that if one's guru is a psychopath or a sociopath, one is screwed and one should continue to regard that person with respect or even devotion. I think that Dudjom Rinpoche's statement is hyperbolic, and need not be taken literally.

dzogchungpa said:
It takes a great being to be daring enough to cultivate a bad reputation. - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

Malcolm wrote:
This is just another kind of sales pitch.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 14th, 2017 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


smcj said:
OTOH, if you see someone else being abused M.R. says you can take action to protect others. Although not specifically articulated in Mingyur R's statement, what he says looks to me like the compassion involved in protecting others trumps the samaya with the guru.
https://www.lionsroar.com/treat-everyone-as-the-buddha/

Malcolm wrote:
He specifically says it trumps samaya:

However, it is another matter altogether when a teacher is committing serious ethical violations. Leaving a teacher on good terms makes sense when the issue is just a matter of fit between teacher and student. When the issue is people being hurt or laws being broken, the situation is different.

In that case, the violation of ethical norms needs to be addressed. If physical or sexual abuse has occurred, or there is financial impropriety or other breaches of ethics, it is in the best interest of the students, the community, and ultimately the teacher, to address the issues. Above all, if someone is being harmed, the safety of the victim comes first. This is not a Buddhist principle. This is a basic human value and should never be violated.

Physical, sexual, and psychological abuse are not teaching tools.

The appropriate response depends on the situation. In some cases, if a teacher has acted inappropriately or harmfully but acknowledges the wrongdoing and commits to avoiding it in the future, then dealing with the matter internally may be adequate. But if there is a long-standing pattern of ethical violations, or if the abuse is extreme, or if the teacher is unwilling to take responsibility, it is appropriate to bring the behavior out into the open.

In these circumstances, it is not a breach of samaya to bring painful information to light. Naming destructive behaviors is a necessary step to protect those who are being harmed or who are in danger of being harmed in the future, and to safeguard the health of the community.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


dzogchungpa said:
Dudjom Rinpoche actually quotes what appears to be that verse in his ngondro commentary:
Such examination must be carried out before any connection is made through empowerment or teaching. But once one has received an empowerment or teaching, even if one’s teachers have broken their vows by committing all four radical defeats, it is improper to examine them or lose faith, or do anything but regard them as objects of devotion and respect.

Malcolm wrote:
This may certainly be his opinion, but I don't agree with his opinion, and there are other opinions in traditional Vajrayāna sources which contradict this claim, opinions which I have already cited so there is no need to do so again.

Just to bring remind everyone, the four defeats are: killing a human being, sexual misconduct, stealing, and lying about one's realization.

Now, just to make it a bit more complex, in Mahāyāna of course, all four of these defeats are permitted if one is motivated by bodhicitta and possesses clairvoyance.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 10:45 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, everyone from whom you receive empowerment, etc. from is your guru. They may not be your mulaguru or root guru, but they are indeed to be considered your guru.

Grigoris said:
Sorry, I was not being 100% clear, I was commenting in regards to the root guru.

That's why the comment by you and PeterC struck me as strange.  Sorry about that.

Malcolm wrote:
And I was responding to the idea that one does not have an equal obligation to respect samaya with respect to all of one's gurus. This is why we unify all our gurus into one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Virgo said:
That is refreshing.

Simon E. said:
But it doesn't alter the fact that what we see is a crude and silly attempt to justify the unjustifiable wrapped in religious patter and accompanied by folkloric anecdotes that are, frankly, only valid currency among the credulous.
For goodness sake!
If all we can come up with after half a century of exposure to Vajrayana is credulity and a continuation of medieval world views recast with Asian stereotypes in place of populist Christianity, then we all need to go away and have a long hard think.
We start off with quaint notions like spit as Holy Relics and we end up with the equivalent of Torquemada defending the Holy Foreskin ....and bloated sociopaths having free rein with the womenfolk.
Well not in my name.

Sonam Wangchug said:
Wow.

To be honest, I don't exactly understand peoples peoples inner wishes to reform the Vajrayana.

Malcolm wrote:
In matters of religion people will always do as they please.


Sonam Wangchug said:
If you do not like the teachings of the Vajrayana,

Malcolm wrote:
Pretty sure Simon 'likes" the teachings of Vajrayāna just fine.

Sonam Wangchug said:
you are perfectly welcome to practice the Mahayana tradition,

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrayāna is part of the Mahāyāna tradition.

Sonam Wangchug said:
no one forces anyone to take empowerments, samayas, or have an allegiance to the tantric path.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, but there really isn't a Vajrayāna orthodoxy. If you have any doubts about this, please consult more than 1000 years of polemical disagreements between masters of all schools on these very issues (and then go back and consult Indian sources of disagreement). Why don't you start with Distinguishing the Three Vows by Sakya Pandita? Then you can move onto Ngari Panchen's Perfect Conduct, and conclude with Kongtrul's quixotic effort to reconcile all these different polemics in Buddhist Ethics.

Sonam Wangchug said:
However, to start insulting Tradition as it's been practiced time and tested for hundreds and more years, is silly.

Malcolm wrote:
Tibetans have been insulting each other over these very same issues for more than a millenia, why should it stop with Tibetans?

Sonam Wangchug said:
The tantric texts and the oral instructions of lineage masters are not "Medieval world views" they are our sources of refuge.

Malcolm wrote:
All of these sources of refuge are temporary and unreliable. Since you are a student of DKR, surely you have studied his commentary on the Uttaratantra and understand that the only true refuge is the dharmakāya?

Sonam Wangchug said:
Personally, I think the view you expound here indicates everything wrong with Vajrayana in the west in 2017.

Malcolm wrote:
There is nothing wrong with Vajrayāna in the West, it is chugging along just fine, with all its disagreements and contradictions. It is a sign of health, not crisis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 10:25 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Grigoris said:
AND, because it seems you did not read the rest of my statement:  I was talking about the Guru-student relationship  Taking an empowerment from somebody does not instantly make them your Guru (as you seem to be implying).

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, in fact it does.

Grigoris said:
Well then, I must have quite a few Guru then...

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, you must. I know I do, something like 40.


Grigoris said:
Do you have a source for this please?

Malcolm wrote:
Of course, Greg. Buddhist Ethics by Kongtrul, Perfect Conduct by Ngari Panchen, Distinguishing the Three Vows by Sakya Pandita, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 10:24 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
When you receive an empowerment from a teacher you don't have commitments to a teacher, but you may have a commitment to practice.  If the commitment was to the teacher, then when they passed away, your commitments would be nullified.  they're not.

Not everybody you receive a HYT empowerment or pointing out instruction from is your Guru.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, everyone from whom you receive empowerment, etc. from is your guru. They may not be your mulaguru or root guru, but they are indeed to be considered your guru.

Would you like the citation storm?  Ratnākaraśānti’s Kṛṣṇayamāripañjikā states:

Having heard even a single verse,
if one does not hold that person as a guru, 
after being born one hundred times as a dog, 
one will be born as a butcher.


There are many other such statements in the tantras and their commentaries.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 8:38 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
The regent was a western practitioner, he was expected to fail anyway.


By whom?
Trungpa himself for starters. He was supposed to act solely as an interim administrator for the Sawang.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 8:36 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Grigoris said:
AND, because it seems you did not read the rest of my statement:  I was talking about the Guru-student relationship  Taking an empowerment from somebody does not instantly make them your Guru (as you seem to be implying).

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, in fact it does.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 10:30 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:



MiphamFan said:
Even from the point of view of secular ethics, http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/03/01/medethics-2011-100411.

Malcolm wrote:
No, at least in the US, abortion after 20 weeks is illegal.

MiphamFan said:
A lot of "conservatives" criticized that paper when it was published but I thought it was perfectly logically valid and lends support to their arguments -- if you allow abortion, you should logically allow infanticide and vice versa if you ban one.

Malcolm wrote:
Totally specious arguments.


MiphamFan said:
Also "identity politics" have pretty much been adopted by the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identitarian_movement too.

Malcolm wrote:
You mean "perverted." These people are just bitching about preserving their privilege. Tiki torch bitches.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 9:28 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


MiphamFan said:
There are a number of issues with leftist liberalism/progressivism that IMO are incompatible with Dharma such as placing a priority on a woman's "right to choose" over the lives of human foetuses, "identity politics" which reify all these temporary, impermanent concepts, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
The point is that we don’t want to go down the road of legislating religious beliefs. Therefore it imperative to support choice solely for that reason,regardless of one’s personal convictions in the matter. If you don’t live in the US or Europe where racism is the elephant in the room, you just won’t get the importance of so-called “ identity politics.” In other words complaints about identity politics are themselves basically racist and sexist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 2:04 AM
Title: Re: Which lineage to choose?
Content:
MatthewAngby said:
Hello again guys. I’m so confused to which lineage I should follow. Anyway I will tell you all what my interests are and I hope you all could tell me which lineage actually fits my interests.

- I love to Chant mantras and put practise as my main
- I am interested in rituals and the use of ritual objects
- I am also interested in Kurukulle’s practise
- I would prefer not to engage much in study ( sorry if I have offended anyone )
- I like it when there are many different practices in the lineage .

So I hope you all could recommend a lineage to me. Thank you !

Malcolm wrote:
Having added my two cents above, that said, all four schools of Tibetan Buddhism (five if one counts Jonang) have Kurukulle practice.

All four or five schools have many different kinds of practice, rituals, mantras, etc.

Study is necessary, but it is not necessary to become a major scholar. One must study enough however that one understands  Buddhadharma in a proper way. Remember, there are three trainings, discipline, samadhi, and wisdom; and in the latter there are three wisdoms; the wisdom of hearing, the wisdom of reflection, and the wisdom of cultivation. So some study is unavoidable. Sorry if this bothers you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 1:59 AM
Title: Re: Which lineage to choose?
Content:
heart said:
Don't follow a lineage, follow a Guru.

Meido said:
Excuse me for chiming in here, but to my mind this is essential advice that applies across traditions.

I wouldn't be disappointed if these words were added to the top of the site page.

~ Meido

Malcolm wrote:
I would only add one word: "Don't follow a lineage, follow a qualified Guru.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 13th, 2017 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
The thing is, this subject should have been thrashed out decades ago. Sogyal was sued before, but even more painful and tragic was the whole Ösen Tendzin episode.

Malcolm wrote:
The regent was a western practitioner, he was expected to fail anyway.


smcj said:
So at some point people will have to come to terms about these teachings, this approach to Dharma, and what this society will accept as permissible behavior.

Malcolm wrote:
As ChNN points out, we have to work with circumstances, which means, according to him, complying with local laws of a country and not insisting even on "Dzogchen" rules.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 12th, 2017 at 11:43 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
...it's unusual to see people on the left critique the left, it's been so rare for a while now.

Malcolm wrote:
Huh? One of the main problems of the left is that they spend endless time critiquing each other for not being sufficiently leftist. This is why you hear people complain about the "purity police."

Johnny Dangerous said:
Most of the screaming and infighting that goes on does not constitute critique.

Malcolm wrote:
We read different leftist authors then. Whatever the case may be, the inability of the left speak in a single voice is its greatest weakness, and has been since the labor movement was destroyed by Reagan in the 1980's.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 12th, 2017 at 11:34 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
...it's unusual to see people on the left critique the left, it's been so rare for a while now.

Malcolm wrote:
Huh? One of the main problems of the left is that they spend endless time critiquing each other for not being sufficiently leftist. This is why you hear people complain about the "purity police."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 12th, 2017 at 11:27 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
The environment they grew up in did not allow for it.

Malcolm wrote:
This is absolute nonsense. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu has publicly discussed the phenomena of monastic pedophiles who targeted him and other young tulkus in the monasteries.

Tibet was not a country of laws. It was a country dominated by aristocrats, priests, and warlords. And quite frankly, the common people often suffered at the hands of all three.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 12th, 2017 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow
Content:
Thomas Amundsen said:
Shakyamuni Buddha never took that vow AFAIK.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course he received that vow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 11th, 2017 at 9:11 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Lindama said:
how can you give someone an illusion?  that's the dependent part, isn't it?  My first non-Buddhist teacher talked about "hand in glove".

Malcolm wrote:
One creates illusions for others in the same way that Balinese puppet masters create a shadow play using sticks, clay, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, November 11th, 2017 at 9:09 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
If, while seeing ourselves as the deity, we balk at the idea of cutting our head off in order to benefit others, then we will never realise the deity.  Our practice will have been fruitless.  We may as well have spent our time pursuing the eight worldly dharmas in the "real" world.

Malcolm wrote:
If we cut off our heads before we have realized a yidam, we will be guilty of harming the yidam. There is indeed a samaya against mistreating the aggregates which have the nature of  yidam. It is one of the root downfalls.

So Greg, realize the deity first, then cut off your head to your heart's content. I suggest practicing a lot of chod first as a dry run.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 10th, 2017 at 10:12 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that their practice was the Chinnamasta form of Vajravarahi. So, as expert in the creation stage they were capable of generating that illusion. It does not mean that they literally cut off their own heads.

Grigoris said:
Are you now saying that samsara (relative reality) is literal?

Malcolm wrote:
I am saying if taken literally it does not correspond to dependent origination, i.e., where this exists, that exists, etc.

For example, when Buddha levitated to the height of 14 palm trees, those who understand the principles underlying such yogic feats will not necessarily be impressed (it has to do with controlling the vāyu in the body). One of the side effects of mastering the two stages is the ability to generate illusions at will. Therefore, we really don't need to take these reports literally, especially when such tales also have an esoteric interpretation, many of which are found in the Caryagiti's commentary. For example, Virupa's stopping the sun is actually a reference to placing the winds in the central channel and so on. If Virupa literally stopped the sun for three days, it certainly would have been reported elsewhere in the world.

Or for example, Shabkar reports running into people who claimed repeatedly to have seen him flying in the sky. In his autobiography he denied having this ability, even though he admits to having dreams of flying, you can look into this yourself.

And Greg, when you yourself are capable of such things as cutting of your own head, I will believe you. Until then, I think you are just being extremely gullible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 10th, 2017 at 10:07 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
as if the stories of the Mahasiddhas and realised beings like Mandarava and Machig Labdron are just silly theoreticals


Malcolm wrote:
It may be the case they are simply legends associated with prominent lineage masters. To give a modern example, I read once in the early '90's that during an empowerment, Khyentse Chokyi Lodo, when making a mandala offeing in an empowerment, caused it to rain gold on the assembly, and people reported gold raining down miles away from Derge.

I did not give the tale much thought until ChNN brought it up during a teaching. It turns out that a wealthy Jindag had mixed gold dust into the mandala rice that was handed out. How did he know this? He was there.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 10th, 2017 at 9:59 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
As you fully well know, no one is capable of cutting off their own heads and surviving to tell the tale.

As to the ethics of the request? Since everyone knows such a literal request is absurd and cannot possibly be met, the meaning of the story cannot be taken literally and nor can the request.

Grigoris said:
It's funny how somebody that spends so much time lambasting Secular Buddhists for their inability to conceive beyond the limiting scope of scientific-materialism, turns to scientific-materialism automatically and blindly when confronted with something that asks them to consider things outside of range the of their normal experience.

Mekhala and Kanakhala were Yogini Siddha, their realisations put them way beyond what we can understand as possible and impossible.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that their practice was the Chinnamasta form of Vajravarahi. So, as expert in the creation stage they were capable of generating that illusion. It does not mean that they literally cut off their own heads.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 10th, 2017 at 5:55 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You are not highlighting a Vajrayāna view of rape, in fact. How can you rape someone who is clairvoyant, knows what you are intending to do, and could paralyze you with a gaze? Thus, your example makes no sense.

Grigoris said:
I disagree.

Malcolm wrote:
You can disagree, but you are wrong.

Grigoris said:
The points you make actually highlight exactly how their views were Vajrayana:

Malcolm wrote:
Greg, there is no special Vajrayāna view of rape, plain and simple.

Grigoris said:
In one case the actions are seen in the light of pure selfless compassion and lead to the perpetrators enlightenment.  In the second case Mandarava displays the fierce quality f her yidam in order to turn the would be rapists minds towards the Dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
That is not a Vajrayāna view of rape, that is a Mahāyāna practice of skillful means.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 10th, 2017 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Grigoris said:
okay, so let us look at the story of the Mekhala sisters, since it does not talk about rape and thus elicit knee-jerk reactions:  Their Guru asked them to cut their heads off and offer them to him and they did.

Malcolm wrote:
As you fully well know, no one is capable of cutting off their own heads and surviving to tell the tale.

As to the ethics of the request? Since everyone knows such a literal request is absurd and cannot possibly be met, the meaning of the story cannot be taken literally and nor can the request.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 10th, 2017 at 3:41 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
My examples attempt to highlight a Vajrayana view of rape that obviously do not accord with Western liberal interpretations.

Malcolm wrote:
You are not highlighting a Vajrayāna view of rape, in fact. How can you rape someone who is clairvoyant, knows what you are intending to do, and could paralyze you with a gaze? Thus, your example makes no sense.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 10th, 2017 at 3:36 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
We were not discussing Yeshe Tsogyal, etc., allowing themselves to be raped as a skillful means. We were discussing gurus raping women. This is why I don't think your example corresponds.

Grigoris said:
Rape is not the applicable term when consent is present.  Coercion okay, rape?  I don't know.  I don't think any of the guilty parties has been accused of rape.  Though I may be wrong.

Malcolm wrote:
Sogyal has been so accused.


Grigoris said:
Again, I am not condoning rape.  When it comes to matters like this I tend to follow the ideals found in the Eightfold Noble Path regarding/concerning sexual misconduct, where it is quite clear that consent and the ability to consent is the key.

Malcolm wrote:
Sleeping with spoken for partners is part of sexual misconduct, and Sogyal stands accused also of coercing married women into sexual relations with him, "You have had for decades, and continue to have, sexual relationships with a number of your student attendants, some who are married."

In some parts of the United States, Sogyal's behavior is statutory rape because he is a religious leader.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 10th, 2017 at 2:20 AM
Title: Re: Socialism & Communism
Content:
TharpaChodron said:
We have a lot of welfare too in the US, but somehow it is different.  I work next to the welfare office and you can see every homeless and poor person come there every month to pick up their checks and food stamps, but many drug addicts just use it to support their habits.  They sell and trade their welfare for drugs and continue to live on the streets with no incentive to change.  You can get welfare in the US your entire life and remain homeless and on drugs.  It's enough money to do that, but if you start working they take away your benefits so a lot of people think it's better to not work or improve their lives, as backwards as that sounds.

Malcolm wrote:
What you are seeing is not welfare payments. Most of these people are on disability. Welfare in the US is really only available to mothers with children. Staying on foodstamps is a huge pain in the ass for these folks, because they must prove to the Gvt. they have a stove and an apartment. Disability payments however require no such proof. And yes, if you start working and earn more than a certain amount, your disability is pulled.

TharpaChodron said:
Hmmm, you may be right (you usually are), but I actually worked a bit inside the welfare program (Welfare to Work) and I learned about the eligibility requirements and how it works.  Every state might be different, but in California a person can qualify for food stamps and receive them for their entire life, as it's only based on income (I believe).

Malcolm wrote:
Food stamps are not welfare.



TharpaChodron said:
I am 99% sure you don't need an actual home address in California to get food stamps. You can tell them you are homeless and they put the county's own P.O. Box address as your own and people come pick up their checks right at the office.

Malcolm wrote:
Since food stamps are a block grant program, different states have different rules. In Mass, you have to have a stove.

TharpaChodron said:
Oh, and I guess it looks like an adult can time out of the program, but children don't tie-out, so a person still receives benefits for the kids until they turn 18 (that's the CalWorks program).

Malcolm wrote:
That is across the board. But you know, these aid programs account for a minuscule percentage of the budget.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 10th, 2017 at 2:13 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I don't think Yeshe Tsogyal was raped by her teacher. But I do think she was raped by some bandits whom she then converted to Dharma, or so the story goes. I just don't see how your example applies, unless you are suggesting that women can be raped in enlightenment by their gurus, which I somehow think is not the point you were trying to make.
Greg, that was a typo, should be "unless you are suggesting that women can be raped into enlightenment by their gurus."

We were not discussing Yeshe Tsogyal, etc., allowing themselves to be raped as a skillful means. We were discussing gurus raping women. This is why I don't think your example corresponds.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 10th, 2017 at 1:13 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
That DJKR sure is provocative, isn't he?


Malcolm wrote:
Well, he would sure like to be, apparently.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, November 10th, 2017 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:


Wayfarer said:
But who can provide evidence of the existence of other realms and other life-bearing planets?  I am open to any evidence, but what evidence is there?

Malcolm wrote:
Earth itself. If it can happen here, it can happen elsewhere. Simple probability. The universe is a pretty big place.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 9th, 2017 at 11:51 PM
Title: Re: Socialism & Communism
Content:
TharpaChodron said:
We have a lot of welfare too in the US, but somehow it is different.  I work next to the welfare office and you can see every homeless and poor person come there every month to pick up their checks and food stamps, but many drug addicts just use it to support their habits.  They sell and trade their welfare for drugs and continue to live on the streets with no incentive to change.  You can get welfare in the US your entire life and remain homeless and on drugs.  It's enough money to do that, but if you start working they take away your benefits so a lot of people think it's better to not work or improve their lives, as backwards as that sounds.

Malcolm wrote:
What you are seeing is not welfare payments. Most of these people are on disability. Welfare in the US is really only available to mothers with children. Staying on foodstamps is a huge pain in the ass for these folks, because they must prove to the Gvt. they have a stove and an apartment. Disability payments however require no such proof. And yes, if you start working and earn more than a certain amount, your disability is pulled.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 9th, 2017 at 12:41 PM
Title: Re: Harming spirits
Content:


Losal Samten said:
Nagas pass their lives in misery being tormented by garudas and rains of burning sand. In addition they are stupid, aggressive, and poisonous.
- Paltrul

Malcolm wrote:
The kind of nāga being referred to here are nāgas of the shudra caste.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 9th, 2017 at 6:23 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
TaTa said:
How does dissolution work in anu yoga practices? For example if i want to do a simple deity practice, i do Ati Gy, then invocation, self visualizstion and mantra and when im done i just drop everything or is there some sort of dissolution?

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on the sadhana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, November 9th, 2017 at 4:23 AM
Title: Re: Why Secular Buddhism is Not True
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes. Those who reject rebirth usually reject it on the basis of sutrayāna Buddhists not being able to provide a clear medium of transference between this life and the next, and disagreements over what the Buddha meant with the term ghandharva.

Grigoris said:
The medium of transference from this life to the next is the same medium of transference that functions from this moment to the next: the mind stream.  The Abhidhar/mma is pretty clear about that.

Malcolm wrote:
Do explain.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 9:58 PM
Title: Re: Socialism & Communism
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
Loppon, if you feel inclined pls elaborate. Labor is not the only factor of production. But it may be that many or most entrepreneurs are motivated by jealousy, etc.  in which case capital is controlled by ... um, a-holes. Therefore labor surplus is really the only honest factor left.

Malcolm wrote:
Labor value does not account for the water/diamond paradox.

MiphamFan said:
There is no paradox -- Adam Smith was using "utility" in its commonplace English definition. Water is useful, diamonds were worthless in his time except for ornamentation (zer o "value-in-use") and but still had great value-in-exchange.

There is only a "paradox" once people tried to read a utilitarian definition of "utility" into him, which is completely anachronistic.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a paradox, which is why Jevons, et all, came up with the marginal theory of value.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 1:45 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Lindama said:
as I said, I've not been following this.

As I understand, what DJKR said is the source of this suffering.  Have his actions been a subject of suffering also.... ie, has he acted unethically?

Malcolm wrote:
Not so far as anyone knows, he merely made some unfortunate comments that probably would have been better left unsaid.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 12:48 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:



Sonam Wangchug said:
As far as lama Tsultrim allione is concerned, She seems to be a good practitioner devoted to carrying out some important works for the Machik tradition.

Malcolm wrote:
Wait a minute, a few pages ago you said she was a hypocrite. Can a hypocrite be a good practitioner?

Sonam Wangchug said:
Perhaps I have had too much tea...

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, I'd look into that.

Sonam Wangchug said:
IMO it is a sign of the degenerate times that practitioners seem not to care about their own Root guru's relations (previous life and current) and views on a teacher...

Malcolm wrote:
Whose root guru are you talking about?


Sonam Wangchug said:
It is also a sign of the degenerate times that we talk much more about jokes a lama might make which we do not like, then we do their dharma activities and transmissions they bestow.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no. We have not done that. Overall, if you examine all the comments on Dharmawheel about DKR, they are mostly positive, mostly fanboy and fangirl raving.

Any seemingly negative comments about him (about his recent posts, in fact) come from his posts on facebook. According to you, they are apparently not to be questioned, but should be treated as papal bulls.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 8:12 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:



Sonam Wangchug said:
People tend to agree with what their root guru's stance is .. For example when you were strongly speaking years ago about Dzogchen (Images of a world with an ah on it) how you can be a dzogchenpa without being Buddhist, and upsetting many people, you likely were influenced by the teachings of CHNN.

Malcolm wrote:
If you are a Dzogchenpa, you can't avoid being a follower of Buddhadharma. There are many Buddhists who do not follow Buddhadharma.

Sonam Wangchug said:
Yes, like most of your views, they have changed over the years.

Malcolm wrote:
I still maintain one does not have to convert to Buddhism to be Dzogchen practitioner. But if you understand Dzogchen teachings, how can you not be a follower of Buddhadharma? Buddhism in all its many forms and Buddhadharma are just not the same thing at all. The former is involved in all kinds of beliefs, judgments, bias, discrimination, etc. The latter is based on personal experience.

And who knows, maybe someday, as someone who has demonstrated mercurial flexibility and willingness to change their view, I'll will come to the view that Dzongsar has every quality you think he has. I never met him apart from offering him a khata once in the usual pro-forma khata line at a teaching of Jnanavajra's in Upstate NY, so I honestly have no idea. Many of my friends who know him like him quite a lot. This just isn't personal, it's about what he wrote, not who he is.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 8:08 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
That being said, if Your own root guru does insult Rinpoche, I at least can respect that. After all you're just being loyal to your teacher, and of course you will likely agree with their opinion.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, because after all Vajrayāna really is just all about clans, fealty, and tribes.

Sonam Wangchug said:
People tend to agree with what their root guru's stance is .. For example when you were strongly speaking years ago about Dzogchen (Images of a world with an ah on it) how you can be a dzogchenpa without being Buddhist, and upsetting many people, you likely were influenced by the teachings of CHNN.

Malcolm wrote:
If you are a Dzogchenpa, you can't avoid being a follower of Buddhadharma. There are many Buddhists who do not follow Buddhadharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 8:05 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
My certainty in the teachings isn't based on faith.

MalaBeads said:
in utmost sincerity, what is it based on?

Malcolm wrote:
The quality of my root gurus teachings, first and foremost, and my own study and practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 7:15 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:



Sonam Wangchug said:
Rinpoche has over 50 Guru's (spanning virtually all lineages) including some of the greatest of the past century living and dead, but I doubt if I provided you a list of beings who had faith in rinpoche despite their stature it would change your mind, because who cares what realized beings think, because some people got offended by a Facebook post.


Malcolm wrote:
The point of the teachings is not to accept them because the Buddha, etc., said they were true. The point is become realized oneself. I would be very happy if Dzongsar is a realized person, that would be fantastic. Every genuinely realized person is a boon to the world. But as you said yourself, it is virtually impossible to tell who is realized and who is not. Not only that, they don't need anyone's endorsement at all. Maybe you will come to that understanding someday.


BTW:
I think it points out a lack of faith on your behalf...
I have no use for faith of the kind you are talking about. My certainty in the teachings isn't based on faith.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 7:06 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In other words you think his/her views are orthodox, meaning for example someone cannot be raped by their guru since it is merely their projection they are being raped?

Grigoris said:
"NAMO GURU PADMA SIDDHI HRI!


My sons you have met a sublime consort, the Great Mother,

Malcolm wrote:
I don't think Yeshe Tsogyal was raped by her teacher. But I do think she was raped by some bandits whom she then converted to Dharma, or so the story goes. I just don't see how your example applies, unless you are suggesting that women can be raped in enlightenment by their gurus, which I somehow think is not the point you were trying to make.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 7:03 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
It seems from your stance you do not care if all of the various lineage heads proclaim in their wisdom someone to be an authentic lama.

Malcolm wrote:
"Authentic lama" is not the same thing as "awakened bodhisattva" or a buddha. I am quite sure that one can be an authentic lama and have no realization beyond the path of application. The problem here, as with the problem of monastic vows, is that very few people actually understand the textual traditions to which they supposedly adhere. As a result, they simply believe anything they are told without critically investigating it.

Sonam Wangchug said:
I think it points out a lack of faith on your behalf, which is fine. However don't go parading that around as the Vajrayana. Why listen to anything these lama's teach anyway? since they are clearly confused, and cannot even tell the difference between awakened beings and ignorant ones.

Malcolm wrote:
Like the Khyentse Wangpo story of the lama who was reborn as a cow, I am pretty sure our lineage heads know that most of their recognitions are just upayas, means for keeping monasteries afloat with donations and to keep lineages going with trained lamas. One famous master whom you have referenced several times in this conversation was heard to remark once that 95 percent of all the recognized tulkus were not in fact the reincarnations of their predecessors.

Sonam Wangchug said:
Anyway, I cannot concede to your point that our masters are deluded.

Malcolm wrote:
That is not my point and I never made such a statement.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 5:53 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:



Sonam Wangchug said:
Good one. Use exaggerated examples to try to make viewing a teacher as having enlightened activity delusional.

Malcolm wrote:
It is only delusional to see a teacher's activities as awakened if they are demonstrably anything but awakened, for example, the activities of Sogyal Lakar; Trungpa's Regent, Osel Tenzin, etc.

Sonam Wangchug said:
That's a big If ..

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is a pretty small "if." It is recommended in the tantric literature that masters adopt a conduct in conformity with people's conventional moral expectations. For example, the Pradīpoddyotanābhisaṃdhiprakāśikā-nāma-vyākhyāṭīkā states:

As such, the vajra master exhibits the essence of the five tathāgatas, and the sixth, Vajradhara. Such a master as that having the qualities of a vajraguru always upholds the qualities of discipline (śīla) and so on, and avoids upholding any sort of faulty negative behavior.

Sonam Wangchug said:
By the way it's very difficult to establish what is demonstrably awakened and what is not. I think that a fair amount of teachers who are revered these days had probably done a few things in their life someone would consider shocking.

Malcolm wrote:
So the solution is to err on the side of awakening based on arguments from authority? No, I think the solution is to err on the side of doubt. This is why we are instructed to observe teachers for a long while. And if a teacher proves in the end they are not qualified, there is no reason to hang around and pretend they are buddhas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 5:06 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Losal Samten said:
I consider saying that ChNN did more damage to the Nyingma than the Chinese an insult.

Malcolm wrote:
Where and when did Dzongsar say this?

Losal Samten said:
After the release of Drung, Deu and Bon IIRC. I'll try to get more info.

Malcolm wrote:
Ok.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 5:05 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
That being said, if Your own root guru does insult Rinpoche, I at least can respect that. After all you're just being loyal to your teacher, and of course you will likely agree with their opinion.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, because after all Vajrayāna really is just all about clans, fealty, and tribes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


Losal Samten said:
I consider saying that ChNN did more damage to the Nyingma than the Chinese an insult.

Malcolm wrote:
Where and when did Dzongsar say this?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 5:03 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
I didn't say it was.  My point is that smcj is not actually saying anything that would raise eyebrows around traditional Vajrayana practitioners...

Malcolm wrote:
We know very different "traditional Vajrayana practitioners."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 5:01 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Sonam Wangchug said:
What I don't like is how she used a Video of rinpoche to promote her center, and then years later when he posts something she doesn't like she is criticizing him on FB.


Malcolm wrote:
Dzongsar could gun someone down on 5th Avenue in NYC in broad daylight and you would still be posting about how this was actually enlightened activity.

Sonam Wangchug said:
Good one. Use exaggerated examples to try to make viewing a teacher as having enlightened activity delusional.

Malcolm wrote:
It is only delusional to see a teacher's activities as awakened if they are demonstrably anything but awakened, for example, the activities of Sogyal Lakar; Trungpa's Regent, Osel Tenzin, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 4:52 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
I don't think the views that smcj is putting forward are fairly standard and common understood orthodoxy.

Malcolm wrote:
You think they are or they are not?

Grigoris said:
I don't think they are anything but...

Malcolm wrote:
In other words you think his/her views are orthodox, meaning for example someone cannot be raped by their guru since it is merely their projection they are being raped?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 4:21 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
I don't think the views that smcj is putting forward are fairly standard and common understood orthodoxy.

Malcolm wrote:
You think they are or they are not?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 4:14 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:



Johnny Dangerous said:
I've never found you to be snarky, but I do think you are going round and round with some attempt at playing devil's advocate in this threads that appears to be nothing but calling out what you see as a lack of devotion in others, essentially.

You are also doing that in a thread which is ultimately about specific instances of abuse, attitudes towards women, and public responses to said attitudes and abuse.

IMO an inability to discuss -those things- in the context of the discussion is really strange, and I don't understand why you keep insisting on doing it.


Malcolm wrote:
What is helpful about Dzongsar's post is that he has outed himself as a conservative reactionary by pointing out continually for some time now all the things he does not like about Western culture: namely, liberalism, feminism, and democracy.

It's a good thing, in the end. It means that people who don't like those kinds of reactionary attitudes can look elsewhere for spiritual guidance, and they should.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 4:08 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
So DJKR equates the mind that is attached to "selective impure perception" as the dualistic mind. So, in other words, all your objections to the principles of Guru Yoga are demonstrations of your attachments to your dualistic minds.

I mean technically, that is.
(Slightly snarky I know. Maybe DJKR rubbing off on me.)



Johnny Dangerous said:
You're really gonna run through another post of stuff like this instead of simply talking about the abuse or situations that lead to it?

Who appointed you the cheerleader for criticism of other's pure perception anyway? Seriously man, who do you think you are, coming into a thread on this subject, and continuing to evangelize over and over about how everyone is wrong on Guru Yoga and pure perception of the guru but you, and refusing to discuss the pressing relative issues here?

That's some cowardly, obfuscating approach to this issue from my point of view, and I want no part of it. At least start a new thread where you can opine on how everyone else has one toe in with the Guru's bathwater but can't jump in, seriously...and how somehow that's a bigger issue than the abuse, shitty behavior, etc.


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, SMCJ's strange attitudes (which seem to be getting stranger daily) are what caused me to go off on him/her the other day.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 4:06 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Sonam Wangchug said:
What I don't like is how she used a Video of rinpoche to promote her center, and then years later when he posts something she doesn't like she is criticizing him on FB.


Malcolm wrote:
Dzongsar could gun someone down on 5th Avenue in NYC in broad daylight and you would still be posting about how this was actually enlightened activity.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 3:52 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Sonam Wangchug said:
I don't know much about the relationship between DJKR and Tsultrim allione, except that she hypocritically had used a video of him to condone Tara Mandala, and now, she apparently changed her mind.

Malcolm wrote:
How is it hypocritical for her to use an endorsement video of Dzongsar at time when all this stuff had not gone down?

Obviously he feels miffed that she did not observe a quid pro quo and voiced her lack of approval of his "joke."

That does not make her a hypocrite any more than it makes Dzongsar a hypocrite for having accepted many invitations to Lerab Ling even though he made it pretty clear he does not think much of Sogyal as a teacher. Or it makes them both hypocrites. You can't have it both ways.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 1:04 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


PeterC said:
I have put Malcolm on my "ignore" list.


Malcolm wrote:
SMCJ, you will get over it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 1:01 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
He posted - as a 'joke' - a draft contract for consensual sex between teachers and students, as a comment on the Sogyal affair. Most people didn't consider it funny, and he deleted the post shortly after. Numerous people spoke critically of his missive on Sogyal and this 'joke'. He then decided to ridicule these people in his Sikkim announcement. That's very far away from making a point about guru yoga and secular worldview.
I’ve poked around here and Google for a copy of the joke. I haven’t found it yet. I suspect he crossed a line in it and that’s why he took it down.

The Sikkim statement is certainly meant to be highly inflammatory. But it’s about Guru Yoga, not Sogyal. In substance it’s not all that different than HHDL’s telling ******* practitioners to stay away from HHDL’s initiations due to samaya breakage. I see it as DJKR losing patience with our secularism. (But I don’t speak for him.)

Josef said:
The Sikkim statement has nothing to do with Guru Yoga.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and it has everything to do with taunting those women who found his "joke" an exercise in blatant mysogyny.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 12:25 AM
Title: Re: Interview with Malcolm on Wisdom Podcast
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
Lol I imagine said polymath would deny having forgotten anything.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, I have forgotten all kinds of things, mostly things that I don't find all that important any more.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2017 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
Of possible interest:
https://tricycle.org/magazine/quit-guru-yoga/

heart said:
Suddenly he don't feel all alone anymore, good for him.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Batchelor is ridiculous.

You have some Western Buddhists, encouraged by cultural attitudes of Tibetans, who think that gurus are popes and one should never observe the fact that they pee, defecate, eat, make mistakes, and so on, and are fundamentally incapable of harming their students for any reason once they and the student undertake a ritualized contract the students superstitiously believe is going to earn them a place in Vajra Hell if they do not accept every abuse handed out to them by a guru with poor conduct; and then you have the other extreme of Buddhists who are so timid they refuse to understand the importance of lineage transmission and that gurus are present in every level of Buddhist teachings, from Hinayāna to Vajrayāna.

Guess that is how it goes these days.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 10:09 PM
Title: Re: The Tantric Age: A comparison of Shaiva and Buddhist Tantra
Content:
Losal Samten said:
Kashmir Saiva posits a single universal established consciousness, whereas Buddhists posit infinite non-established consciousnesses. As such, their realisations and the fruit of those realisations are de facto different, and is far beyond philosophical hair-splitting, but is experientially different.

srivijaya said:
True, though I'm not convinced that awareness abiding in non-duality has any reference to being either a single consciousness or one of a multitude. There's an interesting section on Anupaya (No-Means) in Dyczkowski's ' Doctrine of Vibration ', where Abhinava explains:. No-means is the experience of the absolute beyond both transcendence and immanence (Shiva and Sakti). Undefinable and mysterious, it is neither existent nor non-existent, neither is it both or neither.
Not grounded in anything, this (light) is not energy, the Great Goddess; nor is it God, the power-holder, because it is not the foundation of anything. It is not an object of meditation because there is none who meditates, nor is it he who meditates because there is nothing to meditate on.
traditional Kashmir Saiva is dead.
Yes that's a great pity, as it's a tradition which came close to matching Buddhism's sophistication. More the reason to give it advocacy in order to contrast the two, as there are no Kashmiri Shaivites who can now speak for themselves.

Malcolm wrote:
The difference between Buddhism and K. Shaivism (but not the only difference) is that in Dharma there is no apophatic absolute. This kind of absolute is completely absent in Buddhadharma, despite the fact that many people import their absolutist and theistic misconceptions into their understanding of Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 10:06 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Adamantine said:
By saying Sogyal would be more in the wrong,  he is still saying the students are in the wrong...

Grigoris said:
I agree that it could be seen to be implying that.  Let's say that he is implying that.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a implication, it is actually part of what he said.

Grigoris said:
I know many of you will roll your eyes and accuse me of copping out when I say this, but everything Sogyal Rinpoche’s critical students are accusing him of is based on their projection.

The bottom line here is: if both student and guru are consciously aware of Vajrayana theory and practice, I can’t see anything wrong in what Sogyal Rinpoche then does to his so-called Vajrayana students – especially those who have been with him for many years. Those students stepped onto the Vajrayana path voluntarily; it’s a journey that they chose to make. At least, I assume they did.



Malcolm wrote:
He is actually saying that Sogyal did nothing wrong in his eyes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 2:44 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


smcj said:
Taken as a whole, and especially given that he is a hardliner about Guru Yoga, I think that DJKR has written a very critical piece on Sogyal R.

Malcolm wrote:
Again, you are really frickin confused about guru yoga.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 2:43 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
... if his students had received a Vajrayana initiation, if at the time they received it they were fully aware that it was a Vajrayana initiation, and if Sogyal Rinpoche had made sure that all the necessary prerequisites has been adhered to and fulfilled, then from the Vajrayana point of view, there is nothing wrong with Sogyal Rinpoche’s subsequent actions.

Malcolm wrote:
That is because Dzongsar, bizarrely, is feels that gurus own their students and possess the right to abuse them at will.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 2:01 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


smcj said:
Well, actually all the lamas have been explaining Guru Yoga all along. These problems have come up because the lamas have not been in people's faces about what is really entailed. DJKR is now getting into people's faces about it.

Malcolm wrote:
The problem is that some people, complete ninnies, believe that following a guru means blind obedience. That sort of thing has nothing at all to do with guru yoga.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 1:58 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
That's the hardline defense of the principle of Guru Yoga I mentioned. That's the issue that people have yet to grok.

Malcolm wrote:
Your trip has nothing to do with Guru Yog and everything to do with grooming oneself to follow a cult leader.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 1:56 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Lhasa said:
And the assumption that everyone must hate Trump. It's the Buddhist thing to do.


Malcolm wrote:
Hating Trump is not a Buddhist thing to do. Understanding that he is a deranged, harmful person, well, that is entirely something else.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 1:55 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
BTW I've put Malcolm on my ignore list. I see he has posted twice. My apologies for ignoring him, but I think the DW readers at large do not need to see more of our arguments.

Malcolm wrote:
Your cowardice is on view for all to see.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 1:54 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


smcj said:
Did you guys read all the way to the end like DJKR asked people to do?

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, and my conclusion was, that most of his piece was logorrhea.

smcj said:
As unfortunate as the whole Sogyal R. episode is, at least this incompatibility of Guru Yoga and mundane view is finally getting highlighted. That needed to be done.

Malcolm wrote:
You somehow have concluded that guru yoga means blind obedience to a guru. This is the opposite of the message that Tilopa was trying to impart to Naropa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 1:51 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
tiagolps said:
Discuss your view of DJKR.

sherabpa said:
I have never met him but I find it refreshing that there is a Tibetan Lama who does not take seriously concepts like 'rape culture' and 'patriarchy'.  These are political concepts, grounded in a strand of postmodern thought originating in the 1970's and 80's unknown to the Buddhist tradition until recently.

There is a culture pressure I have experienced in Buddhist centers in the US (also but less so in Europe) to conform to the shibboleths and mores of the political left, most specifically the American Democratic party,

Malcolm wrote:
If you think Democrats are leftist, you must be extremely right wing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 1:48 PM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
MalaBeads said:
djkr is being quite straightforward I think in telling people not to come to Sikkim.

Malcolm wrote:
The problem is not that he does not want this or that student. The problem is that he used an advertisement for a teaching he would like to give as a vehicle for expressing his resentment about how some women reacted to his "joke."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 7:04 AM
Title: Re: Meat Eating Mantras
Content:
SuryaMitra said:
Could you please,  say something more about it? From which sources/termas  is the mantra used by Ch.NN ? Thnx .

Malcolm wrote:
From his teacher's termas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 7:02 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
That is why I like ChNN"s quote from Dzog Chen and Zen so much: A human being has his limits. And thus in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. Isn't that exactly what the buddhist secularists are doing, taking only the Dharma that fits into their opinions (unawareness)?

Malcolm wrote:
You clearly do not grok what my teacher is saying here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 7:00 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


smcj said:
Buddha himself left the palace where he had everything a man could want. And after his enlightenment the first thing he taught was the 1st Noble Truth so that people did not feel complacent about their lives. So happy and healthy are desirable, but that's not what Dharma is about.

Malcolm wrote:
It is as far as lay people are concerned, in general. You apparently never read the Siggolaka sutta, and various Mahāyan̄a texts devoted to wealth accumulation, health, political stability and so on.

smcj said:
A happy, healthy life with money, position, and prestige, with a wife and child, is what he literally left behind to start his quest.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this was a display he showed those who needed an example of renunciation because of their fear of samsara.

Buddha also demonstrated the mandala of Guhyasamaja to King Indrabhuti who requested a method of liberation where the latter would not need to give up anything.

This is the elementary difference between Hinayāna and Uncommon Mahāyāna Secret Mantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 3:21 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
Or, put into statement form, our present,  everyday, well adjusted, productive, happy & healthy awareness is the same thing as the afflicted-delusional problem that Dharma is teaching us to overcome.

Malcolm wrote:
I am pretty sure Buddha wanted people to have everyday, well adjusted, productive, happy & healthy awareness as a solid and firm basis to approach Dharma practice from.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 2:57 AM
Title: Re: Soul fragmentation and defragmentation as Buddism teaching?
Content:
ydnan321 said:
I still have doubt in my mind regarding Hsuan Hua’s remarks regarding multiplicity of animal’s rebirth. Though I do not believe such statements, they still linger and bother me. Seems like his impact is strong. I would need some sort of credible source to firm up my belief. Therefore, I am looking for sutra references to disregard such claim. Anyone knows of any sutras or authentic masters’ writings mentioning rebirth accounts specifying that one human is reborn as one animal, or vice versa? Or if there are reliable treatises that explain of such rebirth law/physics, specifically denying such multiplicity claim.

Thanks,

YN

Malcolm wrote:
Dharmakiriti makes strong arguments defending the idea that mind streams are separate and unique.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: The Tantric Age: A comparison of Shaiva and Buddhist Tantra
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Please provide proof of this claim.

Grigoris said:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/18/buddhist-monk-spreads-hatred-burma

Malcolm wrote:
This not proof that he is guilty of justifying a genocide, as you claimed. He is awful, no doubt. But let's keep to the facts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 1:26 AM
Title: Re: The Tantric Age: A comparison of Shaiva and Buddhist Tantra
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I am quite certain that man understands the basic principles of Buddhism.

Grigoris said:
Yeah, well, I guess he must have skipped the classes on the  Eightfold Noble Path then... However, one thing needs to be pointed out -- do you have actual evidence that he is deliberately incited groups of people to kill Muslims? If not, then all this talk his going to lower realms is just empty chatter.
I didn't say anything about lower realms, you did.  I asked: So who will spend more incalculable eons cultivating the root of merit for meeting the Dharma?

Malcolm wrote:
You said:
This guy claims he loves the Dharma and uses it to justify a genocide
.

Please provide proof of this claim.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 1:19 AM
Title: Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.
Content:
kirtu said:
And even though I hear that there are stands in Japan where items are left out untended and money is still given honestly for the items taken, I still have to wonder if the patrons aren't just afraid that Otoya Yamaguchi will jump out and sever their hands if they don't pay fairly.
See?  Ghost stories can indeed have a positive effect sometimes.

Queequeg said:
I see these kinds of farm stands in the US. Not every place in this country is a Hobbesian vision of mayhem.


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, there is one of those kinds of farm stands everywhere in my town, and everywhere in my county. You want meat, you go up the street to get it from a freezer with no one standing around, you just leave your money. You want milk, same deal. Eggs, go for it. Maple syrup, you got it. And during the summer, everyone puts out their produce in unattended farm stands. But Kirt still refuses to move to Western Massachusetts because he seems to prefer the urban hell of the greater DC area.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 1:16 AM
Title: Re: deadliest mass shooting in the U.S.
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
US President Donald Trump says the mass shooting in Texas that left at least 26 people dead was the result of a "mental health problem", not the country's gun laws, and labels the gunman "a very deranged individual".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-06/texas-church-shooting-donald-trump-says-mental-health-problem/9123900


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
Well, in this case, the fellow was denied a gun license by the state of Texas. So he got one on the black market.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 1:11 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
What if unawareness is perfectly exemplified by the idea, “things truly are the way I see them, and I know this for a fact because I see them that way”?

Johnny Dangerous said:
What if we were warned by countless teachers not to discard virtous conduct in favor of the ultimate view....oh wait, we were.

Malcolm wrote:
On the other hand, Āryadeva mentions that if faced with a choice between virtuous conduct and emptiness, choose emptiness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, November 7th, 2017 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
smcj said:
What if unawareness is perfectly exemplified by the idea, “things truly are the way I see them, and I know this for a fact because I see them that way”?

Malcolm wrote:
This would apply equally to buddhas and sentient beings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 10:41 PM
Title: Re: The Void
Content:
PuerAzaelis said:
IMHO: Why ask why? Just rest in attention and do nothing. Return, rest, return, rest. Forever.

Malcolm wrote:
This is an excellent way to wind up in the āyatana of infinite consciousness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 10:32 PM
Title: Re: The Tantric Age: A comparison of Shaiva and Buddhist Tantra
Content:
Grigoris said:
People go through all sorts of levels of education without truly understanding the most basic things.

You have, for example, biological scientists that are also Creationists.

Malcolm wrote:
I am quite certain that man understands the basic principles of Buddhism. However, one thing needs to be pointed out -- do you have actual evidence that he is deliberately incited groups of people to kill Muslims? If not, then all this talk his going to lower realms is just empty chatter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 10:17 PM
Title: Re: The Tantric Age: A comparison of Shaiva and Buddhist Tantra
Content:
Grigoris said:
Yes... Well...  I wouldn't bet on it.

Malcolm wrote:
I would. Karma is unerring.

Grigoris said:
You completely missed the point...  I wouldn't bet on the fact that he understands that the Triple Gem is a flawless field.  Actually I would stake all my cash on the fact that he doesn't.

Malcolm wrote:
He is educated monastic. Of course he understands this. It won't prevent him from birth in lower realms, given his purported actions, but it plants roots of virtue in his continuum nevertheless. People in Daesh hate the Triple Gem and would seek to destroy it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 10:08 PM
Title: Re: Meat Eating Mantras
Content:
SuryaMitra said:
In most sources it say`s A A SHA SA MA HA, yet N.N.Norbu Rinpoche uses Ha A HA SHA SA MA, can anyone tell me what`s the reason behind that, is it from different termas?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 9:58 PM
Title: Re: The Tantric Age: A comparison of Shaiva and Buddhist Tantra
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
ISIS, since even this fellow understands the Triple Gem is a flawless merit field.

Grigoris said:
Yes... Well...  I wouldn't bet on it.

Malcolm wrote:
I would. Karma is unerring.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 9:37 PM
Title: Re: The Tantric Age: A comparison of Shaiva and Buddhist Tantra
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There are no other means. And when we are talking about people who hate the Dharma as much as ISIS people, it will be incalculable eons before they have cultivated a sufficient root of merit for meeting the Dharma.

Grigoris said:
This guy claims he loves the Dharma and uses it to justify a genocide.  So who will spend more incalculable eons cultivating the root of merit for meeting the Dharma?


Malcolm wrote:
ISIS, since even this fellow understands the Triple Gem is a flawless merit field.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 9:31 PM
Title: Re: Harming spirits
Content:
tiagolps said:
I've thought about this yesterday, do we harm spirits by harming their environment (without knowing we're doing it)? And do we produce negative karma? (without knowing we're doing it)

kalden yungdrung said:
Definitely sure we do.
...

tiagolps said:
So do these spirits actually get harmed by us? Or do they just get annoyed?


Malcolm wrote:
If someone destroyed where you live, would you feel harm?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 6:42 AM
Title: Re: The Tantric Age: A comparison of Shaiva and Buddhist Tantra
Content:



kirtu said:
But turning away from ones misdeeds and then really cultivating merit in any of the three great lineages purifies even those misdeeds (of coruse merit itself creates the causes for positive experiences but the point is that one can continue to purify the karma even before Arya wisdom dawns).

And in the HYT a complete stop can be put to even these misdeeds (because the positive effect from HYT practice can overwhelm negative karma and indeed with the truly diligent negative karma of even the worst sort can be purified).

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
The only way to cut off rebirth in the three lowers realms is by achieving stream entry (Hinayāna) or patience on the path of application (Mahāyāna) or strong heat (Vajrayāna). With respect to patience, this takes many eons to reach on the common Mahāyāna path.

There are no other means. And when we are talking about people who hate the Dharma as much as ISIS people, it will be incalculable eons before they have cultivated a sufficient root of merit for meeting the Dharma.

Aryjna said:
What about Dzogchen? Or does it fall under Vajrayana in this regard?

Malcolm wrote:
One would have to have firm confidence in the first vision.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 5:58 AM
Title: Re: The Tantric Age: A comparison of Shaiva and Buddhist Tantra
Content:



kirtu said:
Even those murders can actually attain enlightenment.  For example, some former Khmer Rouge took robes and sincerely turned away from their sins.

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
Turning away from one's misdeeds is nice, but it does not place a stop order to going to hell for mass murdering people. You have to attain stream entry.

kirtu said:
But turning away from ones misdeeds and then really cultivating merit in any of the three great lineages purifies even those misdeeds (of coruse merit itself creates the causes for positive experiences but the point is that one can continue to purify the karma even before Arya wisdom dawns).

And in the HYT a complete stop can be put to even these misdeeds (because the positive effect from HYT practice can overwhelm negative karma and indeed with the truly diligent negative karma of even the worst sort can be purified).

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
The only way to cut off rebirth in the three lowers realms is by achieving stream entry (Hinayāna) or patience on the path of application (Mahāyāna) or strong heat (Vajrayāna). With respect to patience, this takes many eons to reach on the common Mahāyāna path.

There are no other means. And when we are talking about people who hate the Dharma as much as ISIS people, it will be incalculable eons before they have cultivated a sufficient root of merit for meeting the Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 5:47 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


dzoki said:
Yes they have changed the outer things, such as language melodies, mudras etc. but the core meaning of the teaching has not changed.

Malcolm wrote:
The core meaning of Vajrayāna is not different than the core meaning of Hinayāna, actually. Liberation means freedom from affliction.
Well, don't you think it brings us back to the point that both the teacher and the student should examine each other before entering into mutual relationship of teacher and student?

What needs to change is the cultural attitude that gurus own their students. But then, hey, I am a Norbuista and my teacher told me that his job, the job of a Dzogchen guru, is to make one free of the guru. My other guru, KDL, told me more than once that empowerments and so on, the main trappings of Vajrayāna, were just play for children.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 5:27 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
dzoki said:
I find the whole situation of vajrayana in the West to be both tragical and hillarious. Guru Padmakara said, that master taking on disciples without checking whether they are suitable recipient of secrent mantra is like jumping of a cliff. Also in numerous texts it is said that the disciple should carefuly discern whether master is qualified or not. Yet Tibetan teachers do not bother to really check their disciples and Western disciples do not bother to check their masters. In the end things go south and a lot of finger pointing on both sides ensues.

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrayāna and its teachers will have to adapt to the new, international circumstances in which it finds itself. Of course, given their penchant for following the dictates of the Communist Party, perhaps Chinese students will be more pliable to the dictates of "traditional" Tibetan gurus than we poor westerners who have been ruined by "Western Liberal Values" before we were ever born.

dzoki said:
Circumstances might be new, but samsara is one and the same. I don´t see where and why vajrayana teachings should change.

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrayāna has changed massively since its origins in India. It would be absolutely historically naive to pretend otherwise. Vajrayāna was adapted by Tibetans to suit themselves. It will continue to be adapted by/adapt to the cultures in which it finds itself, or it will die.

dzoki said:
Vajrayana teaching is not for changing of worldly situation, it is for liberation from samsara and samsara is not somewhere outside, it is our own mind.

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrayāna has all kinds of methods for changing worldly situations, you know, like mantras for repelling armies and that sort of thing.


dzoki said:
Both Westerners and Tibetans alike would not be ruined by some political ideology - be it liberalism or patriarchal feudalism, but by clinging to the concepts (including liberalism and feudalism), by ego-clinging and by 8 worldly Dharmas.

Malcolm wrote:
Unfortunately, it now seems that the main thing propping up Vajrayāna is precisely the eight worldly dharmas. Why? Because Vajrayāna as social phenomena is mostly made up of worldly people like you and I. Sadly, we have come to a time when prominent teachers of the Dharma resort to petulant admonitions on Facebook when advertising their teachings in response to criticism of their jokes which were not well received by women in general and their defense of someone whom most people seem to agree is a very abusive person under the pretext of samaya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 5:15 AM
Title: Re: Race in America
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
No?

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/03/world/americas/canadas-forced-schooling-of-aboriginal-children-was-cultural-genocide-report-finds.html

Minobu said:
but..we were genocidal in some respect towards the Native Nations .
The Catholic Church with provincial government consent allowed for residential schools.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/a-history-of-residential-schools-in-canada-1.702280

kirtu said:
Culturally genocidal - yes that is true (and we don't need a CBC or NYTs article to know that).

However the United States was physically, Holocaust scale genocidal and only stopped after the actions had been undertaken and then discussed in the press, provoking an outcry that put an end to the physical genocide.

Did Canada have a Wounded Knee or Sand Creek?  The US had *MANY*.

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
Conflicts along the Okanagan Trail in 1858 in British Columbia were related to the Yakima War in Washington Territory
Fraser Canyon War (1858) – British Columbia (white irregulars in British territory against the Nlaka'pamux)
Lamalcha War (1863) — British Columbia (Royal Navy vs Lamalcha people
Chilcotin War (1864) — British Columbia (White workers against the Tsilhqot'in)
Fisherville War (1860s) — British Columbia
Tobacco Plains War (1860s) — British Columbia
Rossland War (1860s) — British Columbia
Red River Rebellion (1869) — Nord-Ouest/Rupert's Land
Wild Horse Creek War (1880s) — British Columbia (see Fort Steele)
North-West Rebellion (1885) — Saskatchewan Territory (Métis people against Canadian forces)
Poundmaker's War (1885) — Saskatchewan Territory (Canadian army against Cree warriors)
Battle of Cut Knife (1885) (Canadian army against Cree and Assiniboine warriors)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka_Crisis

https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1314977281262/1314977321448

The principle reason Canada seems to be more gentle on First Nations was that many tribes sided with British during war 1812.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 5:10 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
It was me that said: You do realise that he is quoting the aforementioned people? They actually said these things about him. If he came here and read some of your statements about him, he could quite easily quote them back at you (in the same context as the above quotes), would you then feel outraged because he is quoting you, or would you feel that maybe you should have chosen your words more carefully?
And it was you (Malcolm) that I was referring to regarding the choice of words.  You are barking up the wrong tree.

Malcolm wrote:
Greg, I responded to that post of yours.

Now I am responding to a post of JD's.

You are aiming at the wrong barn. Typically, you are totally missing the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:




Malcolm wrote:
It amounts to the same thing, AFAIAC.

Johnny Dangerous said:
It would if my post was the teeny bit you quoted, rather than the entire thing, which lends a context you missed to the thing you quoted.

Malcolm wrote:
It was what you lead your post with. Context is there for everyone else to read.


Johnny Dangerous said:
Also weird to single me out in the conversation, as for the most part I am NOT on DJKR's side here.

Malcolm wrote:
It was because of the way you started your post.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 4:45 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Perhaps your observation was not as skillful as it seemed to you when you hit submit.

Grigoris said:
Well nobody has said anything that would cause me to reassess my appraisal.

Malcolm wrote:
No one ever would. Your noggin is impenetrable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 4:44 AM
Title: Re: The Tantric Age: A comparison of Shaiva and Buddhist Tantra
Content:



kirtu said:
But to what extent is this valid in our time?  Almost everyone has seen a picture of a stupa or a Buddha and therefore a seed has been planted.

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
Completely valid. Think ISIS.

kirtu said:
Even those murders can actually attain enlightenment.  For example, some former Khmer Rouge took robes and sincerely turned away from their sins.

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
Turning away from one's misdeeds is nice, but it does not place a stop order to going to hell for mass murdering people. You have to attain stream entry.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 4:42 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:



Johnny Dangerous said:
I didn't say anything like that.

Malcolm wrote:
You recommended that they should choose their words more carefully. I am quite certain that you did not intend to marginalize them, but that is exactly what asking them to "choose their words more carefully" does.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I didn't say that, I said they could have chosen their words carefully, and qualified it by saying that was "possible".

Malcolm wrote:
It amounts to the same thing, AFAIAC.


Johnny Dangerous said:
I do not accept that I am somehow an example of your ideas about gender-biased language simply because you missed the implicit meaning of things I said.

Malcolm wrote:
The problem with gender-biased (as well as racially-biased) language is that people don't even know when they are using it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 4:35 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
And just to make things clear:  I think it is admirable that distinguished women teachers are speaking out against abuse.

Malcolm wrote:
You could have led with that rather than running down the metadiscussion rabbit hole. Just sayin...

Grigoris said:
I didn't expect that saying something so brain dead obvious as:  students need to reassess their expectations of the student-teacher relationship instead of throwing all the onus of responsibility exclusively on the teacher, would have received the responses it has thus far.

Malcolm wrote:
Perhaps your observation was not as skillful as it seemed to you when you hit submit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 4:31 AM
Title: Re: Race in America
Content:


kirtu said:
The Canadians were bad and brutal but not genocidal like in the US.

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
No?

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/03/world/americas/canadas-forced-schooling-of-aboriginal-children-was-cultural-genocide-report-finds.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 4:26 AM
Title: Re: Race in America
Content:


Minobu said:
Maybe you just do not get it Malcolm...and you are trying to force your triangle american racism into a Canadian square hole.

Malcolm wrote:
Do you really need me to trot out the history of racism in Canada? It'll just spoil your day.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 4:24 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
An appeal to emotion by any chance?

Malcolm wrote:
I always find it interesting the way in which in our speech and culture, the disenfranchised are always the ones cautioned about being more careful with their words, their clothes, etc. I was not singling out JD in particular, but the way this way of speaking about people who are suffering systematic oppression are always the ones who are supposed to be more careful, less offensive, etc.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I didn't say anything like that.

Malcolm wrote:
You recommended that they should choose their words more carefully. I am quite certain that you did not intend to marginalize them, but that is exactly what asking them to "choose their words more carefully" does.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 4:17 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
dzoki said:
I find the whole situation of vajrayana in the West to be both tragical and hillarious. Guru Padmakara said, that master taking on disciples without checking whether they are suitable recipient of secrent mantra is like jumping of a cliff. Also in numerous texts it is said that the disciple should carefuly discern whether master is qualified or not. Yet Tibetan teachers do not bother to really check their disciples and Western disciples do not bother to check their masters. In the end things go south and a lot of finger pointing on both sides ensues.

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrayāna and its teachers will have to adapt to the new, international circumstances in which it finds itself. Of course, given their penchant for following the dictates of the Communist Party, perhaps Chinese students will be more pliable to the dictates of "traditional" Tibetan gurus than we poor westerners who have been ruined by "Western Liberal Values" before we were ever born.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 4:11 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Seriously, they should "choose their words" more carefully? Maybe they shouldn't have worn that skimpy dress when they were posting on facebook either.

Grigoris said:
An appeal to emotion by any chance?

Malcolm wrote:
I always find it interesting the way in which in our speech and culture, the disenfranchised are always the ones cautioned about being more careful with their words, their clothes, etc. I was not singling out JD in particular, but the way this way of speaking about people who are suffering systematic oppression are always the ones who are supposed to be more careful, less offensive, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 4:07 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
And just to make things clear:  I think it is admirable that distinguished women teachers are speaking out against abuse.

Malcolm wrote:
You could have led with that rather than running down the metadiscussion rabbit hole. Just sayin...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 3:37 AM
Title: Re: Race in America
Content:


Minobu said:
True...but the French and English had to get along after the war...

Malcolm wrote:
It is news to me that the Anglophones in Canada get along with the Francophones. You know, I have read Anne of Green Gables. It's pretty racist about the French.

Minobu said:
so your basing the relationship on anne of green gables.
gee not much i can say to back up the fact that we do get along...
and we don't get along...
but the higher educated on both sides...do get along..
but hey you read anne of green gables...so what can i say.

Malcolm wrote:
I also know Canadian Francophones and Anglophones who really don't have nice things to say about each other.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 3:31 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No, their statements concerened what he said. They were not statements about him as a person. They solely addressed the content of his joke. He made it about their persons.

treehuggingoctopus said:
You could argue that he is actually manipulating their words here -- to which he would probably retort: "Why can't you just relax, mate, and get the joke?" I think this is the scariest part of it all.

Malcolm wrote:
He is most definitely doing so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
jkarlins said:
I'd watch that.

Malcolm wrote:
No accounting for taste, I guess.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: Race in America
Content:
Minobu said:
Also it is worth noting our relationship with the founding native nations...we never massacred them or went in to indian wars with American heroes like general custer...


Malcolm wrote:
Dude, you really need to study the history of First Nations relationship with the Canadian Gvt. You people were brutal to first nations, every bit as bad as the US.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 3:09 AM
Title: Re: Race in America
Content:



Minobu said:
Canada promotes a multicultural thing...

Malcolm wrote:
This is a pretty recent trend in Canadian culture, driven by a need for population expansion more than any deep-seated, white Canadian conviction in the virtues of multiculturalism.

Minobu said:
True...but the French and English had to get along after the war...

Malcolm wrote:
It is news to me that the Anglophones in Canada get along with the Francophones. You know, I have read Anne of Green Gables. It's pretty racist about the French.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 3:08 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:



Johnny Dangerous said:
So this might be true, that indeed the people he is quoting should've chosen their words more carefully...and this was the genius behind his supposed "critique", I guess it's possible, remotely.

Malcolm wrote:
Why should women who are offended at blatantly sexist humor "choose their words more carefully?" Let's look at what they said:

"disrespectful to women."

"disgusting and disrespectful unfortunately not surprising and definitely not funny."

Seriously, they should "choose their words" more carefully? Maybe they shouldn't have worn that skimpy dress when they were posting on facebook either.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I wasn't endorsing it...I was saying the vague possibility is there, outrage is one thing, an efficacious response is another. Our culture is at peak outrage right now. I think DJKR is mostly in the wrong here, for the record.


Malcolm wrote:
I don't see outrage in their words, I see simple, exhausted, disgust in the words of yet another patriarchal male complaining about how feminism is cramping his style. He might as well be on Fox News.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 3:02 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
You do realise that he is quoting the aforementioned people? They actually said these things about him. If he came here and read some of your statements about him, he could quite easily quote them back at you (in the same context as the above quotes), would you then feel outraged because he is quoting you, or would you feel that maybe you should have chosen your words more carefully?
So this might be true, that indeed the people he is quoting should've chosen their words more carefully...and this was the genius behind his supposed "critique", I guess it's possible, remotely.

Malcolm wrote:
Why should women who are offended at blatantly sexist humor "choose their words more carefully?" Let's look at what they said:

"disrespectful to women."

"disgusting and disrespectful unfortunately not surprising and definitely not funny."

Seriously, they should "choose their words" more carefully? Maybe they shouldn't have worn that skimpy dress when they were posting on facebook either.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 2:58 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Greg, I think you being deliberately obtuse.

Dzongsar posted something he thought was funny. Many, many women called him out for his "joke." You can argue about the merits of their discomfort if you like.

Grigoris said:
I am not talking about the merit or demerit of their actions, you are bringing this judgment into the discussion.  I said that all instances of attraction and repulsion originate in a sense of self/ego.  I don't see what is controversial about that.

Malcolm wrote:
It's beside the point.



Grigoris said:
You can claim that being subject to ongoing sexual harrassment for decades and years is just "ego" if one finds it uncomfortable and reacts with shock when a high lama argues that gurus have the right to disrespect their students in any capricious fashion they choose. But then you would be in the wrong.
You see, you are taking your assumption about the motivation for DJKR's post as the only correct assumption and thus you come to the mistaken conclusion that I believe that the abuse of students is correct and acceptable (something I have never said).

Malcolm wrote:
I did not say you did claim this, I said you can claim this. And if you did, you would be wrong.

Grigoris said:
Anyway, he removed the post. He was so pissed about taking it down, however, he complained about it during his recent teachings in Mexico City. Now, he takes this occasion, in announcing his teachings in Sikkim, to call out one of the leading western women teachers?
You do realise that he is quoting the aforementioned people?  They actually said these things about him.

Malcolm wrote:
No, their statements concerened what he said. They were not statements about him as a person. They solely addressed the content of his joke. He made it about their persons. He is making it personal.

Grigoris said:
If he came here and read some of your statements about him, he could quite easily quote them back at you (in the same context as the above quotes),

Malcolm wrote:
You mean the words where I said that most of his post about Sogyal was bullshit and then diagramed the part that I agreed with? Please, let him. Because in reality, I have not said very much about Dzongsar at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: Race in America
Content:



Minobu said:
Canada promotes a multicultural thing...

Malcolm wrote:
This is a pretty recent trend in Canadian culture, driven by a need for population expansion more than any deep-seated, white Canadian conviction in the virtues of multiculturalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 2:36 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Greg, I think you being deliberately obtuse.

Dzongsar posted something he thought was funny. Many, many women called him out for his "joke." You can argue about the merits of their discomfort if you like. You can claim that being subject to ongoing sexual harrassment for decades and years is just "ego" if one finds it uncomfortable and reacts with shock when a high lama argues that gurus have the right to disrespect their students in any capricious fashion they choose. But then you would be in the wrong.

Anyway, he removed the post. He was so pissed about taking it down, however, he complained about it during his recent teachings in Mexico City. Now, he takes this occasion, in announcing his teachings in Sikkim, to call out one of the leading western women teachers?

Are you really that ok with sexism and abuse of women? I guess your anarchist commitment to leveling hierarchy ends with what you perceive to be your samaya vows.

Falling back on the old "it's ego" is just fricking lame. There is such a thing as virtuous conduct and nonvirtuous conduct. We should accept the former and reject the latter. Using a teaching announcement to castigate those who offered criticisms of one's dumbass, juvenile, sexist pranks is an insult to the very Dharma one is supposedly upholding.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 2:20 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Grigoris said:
Somehow I don't think the Vajrayana is in any danger at all.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course it isn't. This idea that Vajrayāna is being threatened by liberal values, or that Vajrayāna is inherently incompatible with such values is just hysterical and reactionary sturm and drung coming from Dzongsar.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 2:15 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Adamantine said:
Well one old post of DJKR's which I happened to appreciate and
which has generally influenced my conduct on FB, contains some advice I believe to be quite valuable.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lionsroar.com/dzongsar-khyentses-social-media-guidelines-for-so-called-vajrayana-practitioners/amp/


Recently, he appears to be
largely ignoring his own advice in this regard.
Also, the Vajrayana teachings are “hidden” in the sense that their meaning is not apparent to someone who has not received the appropriate teachings. It’s like a foreign language. Because some of the imagery and symbolism can seem strange or even violent to the uninitiated, it’s generally recommended to keep it hidden so that it doesn’t put off newer practitioners, who might develop wrong views about the Buddhist path in general and the Vajrayana path in particular.
Don’t create disharmony: Try to be the one who brings harmony into the sangha community with your online chatter, instead of trouble and disputes.
Always be mindful of your motivation: Please do not attempt to display “crazy wisdom” behaviors online, just inspire others to have a good heart. If you think you are posting something out of compassion, try first to make sure you are doing no harm. Whenever you can’t let go of the itch to post something, make sure that it helps whoever who reads it and the Dharma.
Whether this corresponds to hypocrisy or skillful means will inevitably be debated. It's hard for me at the moment to recognize skill at play. However, some Vajra siblings I respect somehow do. . . This is a challenging mess.


Malcolm wrote:
Seems like Dzongsar should follow his own advice and put a sock in it.

Basically, Dzongsar has apprently decided to start a culture war, since he finds Western Liberal Values very frustrating. Then of course he will find ample support from online sycophants.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 2:14 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So you don't accept that power differentials make consent impossible?

Grigoris said:
There are power differentials in every single interpersonal relationship, does that mean that all instances of sexual activity are rape?

Malcolm wrote:
We are specifically talking about the power differential between professionals and their clients.

Grigoris said:
I think you'll find that everybody involved is acting from the position of ego.  EVERYBODY.

Malcolm wrote:
Really, it is "ego" to find something like Dzongsar's joke repellant, something which reinforces the idea that gurus should have right to sexually abuse their students?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 2:10 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
The "novelty" of such posts has worn off, and so has their shock value. He continues to offend those already offended, and endear himself to those who already cherish his crazy-wisdom-on-FB shtick.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, he has massively upped the ante by calling out Lama Tsultrim Allione publicly. It seems to me he wants this conflict to increase and spread, not decrease and dwindle.

Quay said:
And Loppon Yudron Wangmo (who posts here and on FB but is on social media holiday until mid-December.) She received her teaching authorization from Lama Pema Dorje, a Dudjom lineage holder, which just seems to make it even more of a conflict increasing post.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and Ian Baker, sigh, all of whom are my friends. It also occurs to me that the timing of this, while LTA is traveling in Bhutan, is not accidental.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: Destruction of Spirits?
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Their stream of nonvirtue is interrupted, generally. However, this does not mean that all their traces for rebirth are eradicated, or that they recognize their own state in the bardo of dharmatā.

cyril said:
I see. But still, if the stream of non-virtue is interrupted, how come that gyalpo in question keeps coming back in the form of a vengeful spirit? I imagine that, if that spirit has anything to do with the continuum of Drakpa Gyaltsen, then it should possess enough virtuous karmic traces able to propel it into a more favorable rebirth one the negative traces are eradicated.

Malcolm wrote:
Some traces are very, very, strong, when motivated by strong hatred.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
The "novelty" of such posts has worn off, and so has their shock value. He continues to offend those already offended, and endear himself to those who already cherish his crazy-wisdom-on-FB shtick.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, he has massively upped the ante by calling out Lama Tsultrim Allione publicly. It seems to me he wants this conflict to increase and spread, not decrease and dwindle.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 1:04 AM
Title: Re: Non-conceptual thoughts ... ?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
The clarity connected with lhun grub is not cognitive clarity, rather, clarity here is zang thal, pellucidity. This is the clarity of the basis.

Cognitive clarity is connected with vidyā; vidyā is both empty and clear. But vidyā is not the basis. Vidyā is the name for a consciousness that has recognized the basis.

This distinction is often glossed over, leading to much confusion.

Temicco said:
How does the clarity of the three experiences fit into the picture?

Malcolm wrote:
It is cognitive clarity, not the clarity of the basis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 12:57 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So you think it is funny that a high lama publicly targets people and other lamas for ridicule? Especially, ridiculing these women for being concerned about the promotion of rape culture attitude?

Grigoris said:
It only counts as ridicule if you take it as a serious assault on one's sense of self.

Rape requires lack of consent

Malcolm wrote:
So you don't accept that power differentials make consent impossible?

As far as ridicule goes, it has nothing to do with an assault on one's sense of self, it means "the subjection of someone or something to contemptuous and dismissive language or behavior."

In other words, it is pretty clear Dzongsar is contemptuous of those people who found his "joke" something that promoted abuse of women. It seems to me the one feeling their sense of self is being assaulted is the writer of the ridicule and not his targets.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 12:47 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
jkarlins said:
I liked this one, I thought it was funny

Malcolm wrote:
There is nothing funny about it at all. It's quite sad really.

Grigoris said:
I think it's funny, but then again I don't expect everybody to agree with (or understand) my sense of humor.

Malcolm wrote:
So you think it is funny that a high lama publicly targets people and other lamas for ridicule? Especially, ridiculing these women for being concerned about the promotion of rape culture attitude?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:
jkarlins said:
I liked this one, I thought it was funny

Malcolm wrote:
There is nothing funny about it at all. It's quite sad really.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, November 6th, 2017 at 12:00 AM
Title: Re: The DJKR Topic
Content:


smcj said:
What about the Dharmakaya is worthy of devotion?

I’m assuming the connotation of adoration or love is a correct translation.


Malcolm wrote:
Depend on what Tibetan word. The Tibeten word most commonly translated as devotion is mos gus, or gus pa.

Mos gus is combined term that does not have a real Sanskrit term underneath it. It combined from mos pa and gus pa.

Mos pa only translates adhimokṣa and its various forms. It means confidence or interest. Gus pa translate two terms primarily, ādara and satkṛtya, both of which mean to pay respect.

Thus the terms we usually see translated as "devotion" really mean, "confident interest" and "respect".

Thus, when we see the term "devotion" in a Tibetan Buddhist book, we should understand that it really has nothing to do with the English history of the word, which really means "formal vow." Devotion means "love, loyalty, or enthusiasm for a person, activity, or cause:" Of these three, it is only the third definition, enthusiasm, which is really indicated by the term in its Buddhist sense. This does not bar us from having love for or loyalty to our gurus, teachers, etc. But just to be clear, we should expect love from our gurus, since the texts on the qualities of the guru all describe the guru as loving, and they in return should expect our interest and respect.

Powerful bliss said:
Interesting perspective Malcolm. I had receive this explanation about the tibetan word devotion in tibetan. I am curious to know your take on it:

Devotion in tibetan = MUGU = LONGING = I WANT THIS, HAVING NO ARROGANCE.
You don’t know the next steps so you come with the quality of no arrogance. I so want what I see. I come naked, no pretence. I need what you have. Humble, open-hearted, interested longing. Translated from Tibetan, DEVOTION = LONGING WITH NO ARROGANCE.

Malcolm wrote:
The term "devotion" is not a terribly accurate translation of mos gus. But we use it because it has become customary.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 5th, 2017 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Enochian
Content:
jkarlins said:
Wonder what would happen if someone translated dharma texts into Enochian.

Jake

Malcolm wrote:
Enochian does not have a grammar, so it would be hard.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 5th, 2017 at 10:37 PM
Title: Re: Feelings of Mind?
Content:
Tenma said:
So you mean he isn't to be meditated on for guru yoga?  Then who is to be my root?  If he is the refuge, then how does one know their root guru?  The one who gives lungs, the one who gives any empowerments, or what exactly?

Lobsang Chojor said:
I'm not sure about guru yoga, Malcolm will know better.

The root guru in the Sakya tradition is the teacher who gives you a highest yoga tantra empowerment.

Tenma said:
Does that mean I have to go out and find a root guru?  Lama Dawa is no longer available, so I have no clue on who to accept as my root guru.  Lama Dawa can't as he is a refuge lama and too faraway, so I dunno who.


Malcolm wrote:
You do not have to find a root guru. When you are ready, and the cause and condition is right, you will meet your root guru.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 5th, 2017 at 10:34 PM
Title: Re: Feelings of Mind?
Content:



Tenma said:
I'll stick to my lama's Kagyu part as an incarnation of Sevan Repa.

Malcolm wrote:
Lama Kunga is a Sakya lama through and through.

Tenma said:
Not quite, he was raised into the Gelug tradition and later became a Sakyapa, though he was originally an incarnation of Milarepa's student, Sevan Repa, so I'm sticking to that part.

Malcolm wrote:
Whatever dude. But he is a Sakya lama through and through.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 5th, 2017 at 10:30 PM
Title: Re: Destruction of Spirits?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Their continuums are liberated into the dharmadhātu and the exorcist takes their lifeforce.

Rebirth.

cyril said:
Maybe I'm thick or just ignorant of these things but shouldn't rebirth be out of question once the continuum is liberated in the dharmadhatu? Wouldn't that be essentially a sort of wrathful phowa? If the entity is subsequently still subject to rebirth, there isn't much liberation to speak of, is it?

Malcolm wrote:
Their stream of nonvirtue is interrupted, generally. However, this does not mean that all their traces for rebirth are eradicated, or that they recognize their own state in the bardo of dharmatā.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, November 5th, 2017 at 7:24 AM
Title: Re: Feelings of Mind?
Content:
Tenma said:
Then what's a root guru?  This refuge lama I have also gave a lung to certain practices, but nothing with the high tantra.  Does that count as a root guru or not?

Lobsang Chojor said:
In the Sakya and Gelug traditions the root guru is the guru who gives you a highest yoga tantra empowerment, in the Nyingma and Kagyu traditions it's the guru who shows you the nature of your mind.

Tenma said:
I'll stick to my lama's Kagyu part as an incarnation of Sevan Repa.

Malcolm wrote:
Lama Kunga is a Sakya lama through and through.


