﻿Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, August 1st, 2023 at 4:17 AM
Title: Re: Attaining rigpa and which bhumi
Content:
Natan said:
You should post a reference for this claim about Thogal.

Malcolm wrote:
It is mentioned in a number of places, but specifically, it is discussed by Khenpo Ngachung in his thod rgal zin bris.

Natan said:
Longchenpa says in either case there's no bardo,

Malcolm wrote:
What he means is the srid pa'i bardo, the bardo of rebirth. There is still the bardo the time of death and dharmatā for those whose diligence is less than the best of the best.

But you know, I tire of people challenging things I say about the teachings and correcting their misconceptions even though I know better than all of you about these things, since I read them in the original Tibetan, and have had extensive instruction in all three series. So, signing off permanently.

Be well people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, August 1st, 2023 at 3:48 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
fckw said:
given that alayavijnana is not equal to the base (gzhi) it should logically not be qualified to be able to have an impact on making any difference whether marigpa or rigpa arises.

Malcolm wrote:
This point is addressed in topic 3 in Buddhahood in this Life, i.e. there is a conscious aspect of the basis which does not recognize its own state. This is explained in lesson 7 in my Wisdom Academy course, Dzogchen: Ten Key Terms, as well as I can explain it in one hour, plus there are readings from unpublished sources.

The explicit distinctions between the dharmakāya and all-basis are explained in Chapter Two of the Sound Tantra commentary, and also in the commentary of the Blazing Lamp.

fckw said:
Thanks for the pointers!


Malcolm wrote:
Just to add: the statement, "the buddhahood that does not come from mind" is specifically aimed at the yogacāra assertion that the dharmakāya is attained through the transformation of the basis, that is, the gradual emptying out of seeds in the all-basis consciousness, resulting in its destruction, and the subsequent conversion of aggregate of consciousness into the four gnoses: mirror-like, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, August 1st, 2023 at 2:33 AM
Title: Re: Siddhartha's son and enlightenment...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So, what you are saying is that Buddhism is based class privilege and white supremacy?

Queequeg said:
Well, certainly class privilege. As you point out, Buddhas are either ksatriyas or brahmins. Either way, they're high caste. Was there a racial aspect to caste? Based on the records we have? Seems to be the case.

Malcolm wrote:
So you agree——Buddhism has white supremacy baked into it's DNA.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, August 1st, 2023 at 1:19 AM
Title: Re: schools besides Jonang which hold the Emptiness-of-other view
Content:
npr said:
How is the relationship between the (not empty) Reality and the sunyata , defined in Karma Kagyu?
According to Karma Kagyu, does the Paramartha perceive the (~borrowed) existence of the sunyata?

No 'Namaste' emoticon here:) sorry

Malcolm wrote:
Parmartha doe not perceive anything, it is the object of post-equipoise. In the extrinsic emptiness school, the actual mode of equipoise is the same as the so-called intrinsic emptiness school——free of all conceptual elaborations——the main (strawman) argument is what one may say about ultimate reality in the post-equpoise phase.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, August 1st, 2023 at 12:40 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
fckw said:
given that alayavijnana is not equal to the base (gzhi) it should logically not be qualified to be able to have an impact on making any difference whether marigpa or rigpa arises.

Malcolm wrote:
This point is addressed in topic 3 in Buddhahood in this Life, i.e. there is a conscious aspect of the basis which does not recognize its own state. This is explained in lesson 7 in my Wisdom Academy course, Dzogchen: Ten Key Terms, as well as I can explain it in one hour, plus there are readings from unpublished sources.

The explicit distinctions between the dharmakāya and all-basis are explained in Chapter Two of the Sound Tantra commentary, and also in the commentary of the Blazing Lamp.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, August 1st, 2023 at 12:28 AM
Title: Re: schools besides Jonang which hold the Emptiness-of-other view
Content:
npr said:
Thank you Malcolm,

No other schools (in China, Japan, SE Asia, elsewhere) with the Extrinsic emptiness position?
(Buddhist schools with a position that there is Awareness which perceives the emptiness?

Malcolm wrote:
I don't know what you mean by "awareness."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 11:45 PM
Title: Re: Doctrinal Perspective on Prayer
Content:
ThreeVows said:
I was curious to hear what people believe to be the doctrinal perspective on prayer. Specifically, for instance, hypothetically say that there is an individual who prays to the three jewels with a mind of faith and longing, and they pray, "If I have any wrong views, I pray that they be corrected so that I can realize the nature of mind!"

Doctrinally, would it be considered to be the case that such a prayer would be heard and responded to, in one way or another, by Buddhas or Bodhisattvas?

What if, for example, there was someone who had never encountered Buddhism, and they were in a culture where there was some general idea of a God. This individual wasn't particularly intellectual, but they did have a heart-felt pull towards the Most High, towards the Sublime. And this person sort of vaguely prayed towards this general sense of the Sublime, which maybe they called God, and they said, "I wish to know the Truth, I wish that all wrong views may be removed from my mind!" Would that prayer be heard and responded to by Buddhas and/or Bodhisattvas, even though the person was not formally Buddhist, didn't know anything about Buddhism, etc?

Malcolm wrote:
From one point of view, all religious traditions are vehicles towards liberation, divided only by whether they are vehicles of samsara (the 360 wrong views) or nirvana (the nine yānas).

It is also said that bodhisattvas like Avalokiteśvara manifest as any kind of nonbuddhist teacher, etc., to benefit those who do not have the merit to enter Buddhadharma:

The Bhagavān said to the bodhisattva mahāsattva Akṣayamati, “Noble one, there are world realms where the bodhisattva mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara teaches the Dharma to beings in the form of buddhas. There are world realms where the bodhisattva mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara teaches the Dharma to beings in the form of bodhisattva mahāsattvas. The bodhisattva mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara teaches the Dharma to some beings in the form of a pratyeka­buddha, to some in the form of a śrāvaka, to some in the form of Brahmā, and to some in the form of Śakra. The bodhisattva mahāsattva Avalokiteśvara teaches the Dharma to some beings in the form of a gandharva. He teaches the Dharma in the form of a yakṣa to those beings who are to be guided by a yakṣa. He teaches the Dharma in the form of Īśvara to those beings who are to be guided by Īśvara. He teaches the Dharma in the form of Maheśvara to those beings who are to be guided by Maheśvara. He teaches the Dharma in the form of a cakravartin to those beings who are to be guided by a cakravartin. He teaches the Dharma in the form of piśāca to those beings who are to be guided by a piśāca. He teaches the Dharma in the form of Vaiśravaṇa to those beings who are to be guided by Vaiśravaṇa. He teaches the Dharma in the form of a general to those beings who are to be guided by a general. He teaches the Dharma in the form of a brahmin to those beings who are to be guided by a brahmin. He teaches the Dharma in the form of Vajrapāṇi to those beings who are to be guided by Vajrapāṇi

https://read.84000.co/translation/toh113.html#UT22084-051-001-2867


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: HH Sakya Trichen in the Dordogne, August 2023
Content:
jinsog said:
The program for the three days of teaching/initiations has been sent out to participants:
- Friday 4 August:
Reception opens at 7.45am
9:30am: Arrival of His Holiness, welcome ceremony, blessing of Vajrakilaya Kago.
15:00 - 17:00: Teaching by Khenpo Tashi Sangpo

-Saturday 5th August :
10:00 - 12:00: Transmission of White Tara by His Holiness
15:00 - 17:00: Teaching by Pema Wangyal Rinpoche

-Sunday 6 August :
10h00 - 12h00 : Transmission of Guru Rinpoche by His Holiness
15h00 - 17h00 : Teaching by Jigmé Khyentsé Rinpotché
Does anyone have any guess as to precisely which White Tara / Guru Rinpoche empowerments these will be?

Malcolm wrote:
Probably the Uncommon White Tāra (but Chime Phagma Nyinthig is also possible) and Apam Terton's seven line prayer Guru Rinpoche.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 11:32 PM
Title: Re: Siddhartha's son and enlightenment...
Content:


Queequeg said:
1. If Gautama was from a poor family, he never would have become the Buddha. Full stop. He would not have had the appearance of a remarkable person. Its said that before his enlightenment, a king spotted him walking through the city and immediately recognized him as a person of high birth due to appearance and demeanor - he was tall and fair skinned, so racially, likely descended from Aryans.

Malcolm wrote:
So, what you are saying is that Buddhism is based class privilege and white supremacy?

In any case, Buddhas can appear from either a brahmin family or a ruling family , depending on which is most respected at the time:

https://read.84000.co/translation/toh95.html#UT22084-046-001-111


Queequeg said:
3. There have been plenty of poor people who left home, left wives and children, left elderly parents, to join the sangha.

Malcolm wrote:
Forcing the Buddha to initiate the rule that one could only ordain if one had first secured permission from one's parents, was debt-free, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 11:19 PM
Title: Re: schools besides Jonang which hold the Emptiness-of-other view
Content:
npr said:
Could you please help me learn what Buddhist schools other than Jonang...

Malcolm wrote:
Extrinsic emptiness is the majority position of the modern Karma Kagyu school, and a minority position within Nyingma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 10:59 PM
Title: Re: Barbie
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 9:40 PM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
Bapho said:
The feeling that "we are missing something" was not given to us by anyone.

Malcolm wrote:
99.999 percent of sentient beings do not have this feeling.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Well, it’s another way of saying dukkha. In that sense, 99.999% do feel they are missing something.

Maybe it’s not in the sense of “woe is me, my life feels so incomplete” but in terms of constant dissatisfaction and craving.

The remaining 0.001% are the ones who can sit for 10 hours on a meditation cushion and not a moment has seemed to have passed.

Malcolm wrote:
The only thing most sentient beings worry about is missing dinner.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 8:45 PM
Title: Re: Attaining rigpa and which bhumi
Content:
Kai lord said:
In that case, third empowerment is for ultimate luminosity and the fourth is for the union and lead to the thirteenth bhumi

Malcolm wrote:
That luminosity is an apperception, it has no appearance, and so has nothing really to do with the subject at hand. Especially, since this account is based on the Pañcakrama of the Nāgārjuna.

Lingpupa said:
Intriguing. What term are you translating as "apperception"? And might one ask why?

Malcolm wrote:
Luminosity, in thus context, is an experience of empty consciousness free from all aspects, it is dmigs med, without objects of perception.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 9:56 AM
Title: Re: Daily Laugh Thread
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 8:25 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:



clyde said:
I agree that we don’t and can’t know it for a fact, like seeing the sun is shining, if another person is realized. But do you merely “ like to think my main teachers were highly realized beings” or do you actually think your main teachers were realized beings? And if you actually think so, on what basis?

Malcolm wrote:
I told you, I don't know. All I know is that when I met them, they understood the path better than I did, and that in taking teachings from them, my doubts were clarified, and now I don't have anymore doubts at all about the meaning of Dzogchen teachings and its path.

I have a lot of doubts about things people say about Zen teachings—in fact Jundo yelled at me last night for being biased(he's wrong, just for the record)—but I am too old now to switch directions (61), to scratch that itch, and find a teacher who I think can remove those doubts. And then I'd also have to learn Japanese well enough to read texts for myself, and that would also involve learning Classical Chinese.

clyde said:
Malcolm, OK, you didn’t know, but now have no doubts the teachings and path. Do you know now if they were realized beings?

Malcolm wrote:
The answer is still no. All of my teachers claimed they had no realization.   I

clyde said:
f there is no way of ‘knowing’, how do realized beings know if another being is realized? How did Buddha know that Kondanna had seen his true nature?

Malcolm wrote:
I never said awakened persons were incapable of knowing whether other people were awakened. I said ordinary people could not know this. So, I’ll let you when I get there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 6:06 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


HePo said:
This is what Dogen wrote in Yuibutsu yobutsu:

Malcolm wrote:
How then, can anyone reasonably expect an ordinary person to be able discern who is a realized person and who is not?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 5:53 AM
Title: Re: Attaining rigpa and which bhumi
Content:
Kai lord said:
In that case, third empowerment is for ultimate luminosity and the fourth is for the union and lead to the thirteenth bhumi

Malcolm wrote:
That luminosity is an apperception, it has no appearance, and so has nothing really to do with the subject at hand. Especially, since this account is based on the Pañcakrama of the Nāgārjuna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
Bapho said:
The feeling that "we are missing something" was not given to us by anyone.

Malcolm wrote:
99.999 percent of sentient beings do not have this feeling.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 5:39 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
clyde said:
Malcolm, I didn’t claim to ‘know’. As I asked PeterC, I’ll ask you. Based on your knowledge and wisdom and your direct experience of Buddhist teachers, including your teachers, have you been in the presence of Buddhist teachers whom you ‘inferred’ were realized? Or do you merely hope and blindly trust?

Malcolm wrote:
I'd like to think my main teachers were highly realized beings, bodhisattvas on the bhumis, but I really don't know this for a fact, the way I know the sun is shining today. I can see the sun. I can't see other people's minds.

clyde said:
I agree that we don’t and can’t know it for a fact, like seeing the sun is shining, if another person is realized. But do you merely “ like to think my main teachers were highly realized beings” or do you actually think your main teachers were realized beings? And if you actually think so, on what basis?


Malcolm wrote:
I told you, I don't know. All I know is that when I met them, they understood the path better than I did, and that in taking teachings from them, my doubts were clarified, and now I don't have anymore doubts at all about the meaning of Dzogchen teachings and its path.

I have a lot of doubts about things people say about Zen teachings—in fact Jundo yelled at me last night for being biased(he's wrong, just for the record)—but I am too old now to switch directions (61), to scratch that itch, and find a teacher who I think can remove those doubts. And then I'd also have to learn Japanese well enough to read texts for myself, and that would also involve learning Classical Chinese.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 5:30 AM
Title: Re: Attaining rigpa and which bhumi
Content:


Jules 09 said:
The " actual gnosis (path of seeing)", rigpa, is the 'beginning' of the so called 'path' in Dzogchen.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is a key error in your understanding, Jules.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 5:08 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
And if this is the case, then what to we do with so-called Buddhas who get permanently kicked out of the SZBA? Or other teachers, who have received inka, and are consistently involved in scandals decade after decade?

Astus said:
It is one of those systemic contradictions mostly left untouched.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because the answer is uncomfortable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 4:29 AM
Title: Re: Attaining rigpa and which bhumi
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In trekcho, there is no corresponding map to the paths and stages of lower yānas.

Astus said:
Is it problematic to connect trekcho to Mahamudra where such correspondence is well known? Although there the example wisdom is the third empowerment, while the fourth is the actual (e.g. Treasury of Knowledge, vol 6, p 231). Are there different views on that too?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it is problematic to connect trekcho to Kagyu Mahāmudra in this way.

You can discern why in Longchenpa commentary on the Treasury of Dharmadhātu, in chapter 10, where where he prefaces his presentataion of the method of equipoise in Dzogchen by the distinguishing between "meditation," which includes pretty everything in the nine yānas, as opposed to natural concentration, which he explains is the specific preserve of the Dzogchen tradition.

As for the third empowerment, there is no introduction in the third empowerment, just an experience, which serves the basis for explaining the example gnosis. Whether the fourth is the actual gnosis (path of seeing) or an example gnosis depends on the person.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 4:18 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Matylda said:
This is first of all a question of affinity. Actually disciple should meet the requirements of particulat teacher/lineage/school. Soto school does not make requierments concerning realization, as far as I know.

Astus said:
The idea of dharma transmission in Zen, Soto included, is the recognition of the disciple's awakening being the same as that of Shakyamuni Buddha, as exemplified by the so called Flower Sermon.

Malcolm wrote:
And if this is the case, then what to we do with so-called Buddhas who get permanently kicked out of the SZBA? Or other teachers, who have received inka, and are consistently involved in scandals decade after decade?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 4:13 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
clyde said:
Malcolm, I didn’t claim to ‘know’. As I asked PeterC, I’ll ask you. Based on your knowledge and wisdom and your direct experience of Buddhist teachers, including your teachers, have you been in the presence of Buddhist teachers whom you ‘inferred’ were realized? Or do you merely hope and blindly trust?

Malcolm wrote:
I'd like to think my main teachers were highly realized beings, bodhisattvas on the bhumis, but I really don't know this for a fact, the way I know the sun is shining today. I can see the sun. I can't see other people's minds.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 4:00 AM
Title: Re: Attaining rigpa and which bhumi
Content:
Astus said:
The occurrence or otherwise of the example luminosity is the criterion that determines whether one is on the path of joining or not.[/i]

Malcolm wrote:
This isn't really when one recognizes rig pa. Rig pa is the cognizant aspect of the basis , aka vidyā.

This passage you refer to is talking about the visions, and when they are occur. But we don't need to practice the four visions in Dzogchen.

In trekcho, there is no corresponding map to the paths and stages of lower yānas. Only in thogal. The first two visions are below the path of seeing, the third vision is the path of seeing, etc. In reaity, thogal is mainly practice to support one in the bardo of dharmatā.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 2:07 AM
Title: Re: reading the visualization
Content:
naljor said:
In many practices like guruyogas the main part is recitation for visualization and main invocation and mantra recitation, so my question is can we
do the visualization just in mind instead reading the words either in english or tibetan?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
We actually have no idea we are "separated from our true nature."

PadmaVonSamba said:
…except for the fact that we know we are trying to rediscover it.

Malcolm wrote:
That's only because someone told us we were missing something. Otherwise, bupkis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 12:25 AM
Title: Re: A breaking news editor and zen meditation
Content:


reiun said:
And he is apparently looking to try to keep it.

Malcolm wrote:
The vicissitudes of neoliberalism, trying to keep one's job as a cog the machine in the march to profitability.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 12:21 AM
Title: Re: Attaining rigpa and which bhumi
Content:
natusake said:
So, bodhisattvas on the stages, lacking Vajrayana empowerment, have no knowledge of rigpa? And, not even Buddhas until after the 10th bhumi since those are Vajrayana stages anyway?

Malcolm wrote:
Bodhisattvas on the stages have realized emptiness. So, they don't need rigpa pointed out to them.

Rigpa is the example gnosis. That example gnosis only exists in Vajrayāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 11:54 PM
Title: Re: Praise our new extraterrestrial overlords
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It's the usual run around, someone told me,I can't say who, I didn't see it myself, it is classified, etc. etc.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Kind of like secret mantra, eh?

But he also said he would reveal that information to anyone on the panel, and the reason for not saying so then was because his source doesn’t want to be known publicly for fear of retaliation.

Malcolm wrote:
The truth is out there...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: Copper Colored mountain location?
Content:
ItaloPiva said:
I believe the most likely location to be the island of socotra in yemen.

Malcolm wrote:
A requirement is that it was inhabited by cannibals.

And a review of the history of the Island pretty much eliminates it from the running.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 11:36 PM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
Bapho said:
We all have some degree of dissociation and fragmentation while we feel separated  from our "true nature"

Malcolm wrote:
We actually have no idea we are "separated from our true nature." We don't know we have lost it until we have found it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: A breaking news editor and zen meditation
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You all realize this post was just to drive clicks to this NYT article. The user has not been back since he made the post, hence no interest in engagement.

reiun said:
The NYT just shuttered its Sports Desk. Thirty-five journalists and editors have lost their jobs. Some others may have noticed.

Malcolm wrote:
Patrick LaForge, as of this writing, has not lost his job. The sports desk has been disbanded in favor of the Athletic:
The move represents a further integration into the newsroom of The Athletic, which The Times bought in January 2022 for $550 million, adding a publication that had some 400 journalists covering more than 200 professional sports teams. It publishes about 150 articles each day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/10/business/media/the-new-york-times-sports-department.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 11:04 PM
Title: Re: Attaining rigpa and which bhumi
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In other words, there is no method to introduce rig pa outside Vajrayāna.

Lingpupa said:
I wonder if that's true. Hang on, I'll just pop out for a minute and check...

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, take your time.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 10:58 PM
Title: Re: Praise our new extraterrestrial overlords
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
Grusch (I think) said that he would provide much more detailed information to congress regarding all of his allegations, in a SCIF (sensitive compartmented information facility) room.

Malcolm wrote:
What he said was that he spoke to someone he claims had seen alien biological material, couched as "nonhuman.' It's the usual run around, someone told me,I can't say who, I didn't see it myself, it is classified, etc. etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 10:52 PM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
PeterC said:
They shouldn’t really be compared.

Malcolm wrote:
True, however, teacher misconduct in Zen has created a lot of havoc as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 9:47 PM
Title: Re: Praise our new extraterrestrial overlords
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
iwanttobelieve.jpeg (177.31 KiB) Viewed 240 times


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 9:40 PM
Title: Re: Attaining rigpa and which bhumi
Content:
Sādhaka said:
OP might be asking if one isn’t introduced from the beginning, then at what point is it encountered on the gradual path (?)

Malcolm wrote:
Its specific to Vajrayāna, specifically, highest yoga tantra. So, only during introduction, during the fourth empowerment.

In other words, there is no method to introduce rig pa outside Vajrayāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 8:48 PM
Title: Re: Daily Laugh Thread
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 8:30 PM
Title: Re: Attaining rigpa and which bhumi
Content:
discussionbuddhist said:
Are there buddhas below 16th bhumi/yeshe lama that attain rigpa? Or is rigpa attained at the 16th bhumi/yeshe lama?

Malcolm wrote:
You do not have to be a Buddha to recognize rigpa, or even a bodhisattva on the first stage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 8:23 PM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


clyde said:
I for one do not agree with this nor does any student with a desire for realization.

Malcolm wrote:
You mean you think ordinary people can infer who is realized? How, what is the a realized person gives off to let someone know there is on that?

clyde said:
And how is it that you believe a common person can’t know if another person is realized? I know smarter people than me. I know kinder people than me. Why shouldn’t I know, in the same way, if another is more awakened than me?


Malcolm wrote:
It’s easy to see who is kinder or smarter, but how do you tell if someone has realized bodh? You claim you can tell, you tell us how you know. Since there can be only one kind of bodhi, what is its characteristic? We’d all like to,know, because in all seriousness, everyone is in the market looking for a realized teacher. Since you have confidently declared for years that you can tell who is realized teacher, please let us in on your secret.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 10:54 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
clyde said:
And if that is so, then all this talk of “Is any living Soto Zen teacher realized?” is an utter waste of time.

Malcolm wrote:
Revise that to, “all of this talk about any living Buddhist teacher being realized” is an utter waste of time.

We do our best, follow the dharma that appeals to us, and ignore the dharma that doesn’t. That’s what you should do, rather than reacting to all this proliferation about Soto. Personally, I find it all edifying, because in asking my annoying questions I learn much I wouldn’t otherwise.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 8:46 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
"You mean you think ordinary people can infer who is realized? How, what is the a realized person gives off to let someone know there is on that?"

C4rl0s said:
A kind of wind that doesnt discriminate between enlightenment or delusion, ordinary or holy people, samsara or nirvana.



Malcolm wrote:
Ummm, that’s smoke not wind. You’ve just proven my point. There is no sign one can identify to identify a realized person. In Buddha’s day, most people thought he was just another shaved headed shramana.

But according to you, being totally indiscriminate is how you infer realization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 7:25 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


clyde said:
I for one do not agree with this nor does any student with a desire for realization.

Malcolm wrote:
You mean you think ordinary people can infer who is realized? How, what is the a realized person gives off to let someone know there is on that?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 5:07 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
Yeah, I have no doubt the ambivalence went both ways.  Relations do seem to be "normalizing" now.  When Sojun Mel Weitsman died, for example, the Sotoshu sent a delegation, and I think there were both Japanese and American celebrants at Zenshuji's 100th anniversary ceremonies.

Malcolm wrote:
It is like that with all Asian Buddhsit traditions transferred to the US and the EU. Westerners are not going away, we are more actively interested in many respects that Asian Buddhists in their original context. So, there has to be a rapprochement.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 4:32 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


HePo said:
And i will not get into a discussion of who is and who is not "realized".

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, because involves a discussion of what realization in Zen actually is. To hear some Soto people talk, it sounds like just sitting crosslegged in a good posture itself is realization, no need to bother with insight.

HePo said:
Nope, i could see your response to Clyde coming with my eyes closed, if i were to talk about subjects like kensho, realization i would do so with other practitioners and definitely not on the internet. I simply do not have the time - i know you won't like this response, that is ok with me, i am done.

Malcolm wrote:
Your response is fine with me. If you have read the thread previously, I pointed out a long time ago that ordinary people cannot possibly infer who is realized and who isn't. On the other hand, your response is also a bit like Fight Club's first rule.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: Practicing while ill
Content:
suerafatodd said:
Hello,

Hope you’re well. Posting because I am wondering if anyone has advice for practicing while ill. I have severe fatigue - all I do is work and sleep. I don’t know what to do.

Malcolm wrote:
Your first order of business is to get well. "Practice" can wait. Good health is a requisite for good practice. So you should regard getting well your practice for now.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: Kurukulla sadhana
Content:
naljor said:
Can be this sadhana of Kurukulla by Mipham Rinpoche  done in Anuyoga style? https://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/mipham/kurukulla-sadhana

Malcolm wrote:
Not as written.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 3:05 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


HePo said:
And i will not get into a discussion of who is and who is not "realized".

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, because involves a discussion of what realization in Zen actually is. To hear some Soto people talk, it sounds like just sitting crosslegged in a good posture itself is realization, no need to bother with insight.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 2:05 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
clyde said:
Bernie Glassman

Malcolm wrote:
So then you accept Genpo Merzel as a realized person since he received inka from Glassman?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 30th, 2023 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
HePo said:
These  (unsubstantiaded) generalizations make it very difficult to have a productive discussion.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s not true, you can challenge her assertion with a counter assertion of some teacher, who, in your estimate is realized.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 9:08 PM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
C4rl0s said:
Hi Matylda,

Matylda said:
"Well... in fact from the point of view of regular person, kensho is definitaly state which alters everything. Cuts away our dear views opinions and feelings. As one roshi put it in very plain words, what I thought is - is not, what i did not even imagine that is - is. We need thoroughly realized person to talk about kensho, satori, sho, etc. and I do not mean 'talk' in terms of conversation or arguments.
Otherwise we may also easily play down even historical Buddha and claim, that bodhi he showed is whatever, and fianlly not important, and give our own limited interpretations. Scholars are able to do such thingss. We may easily neglect all struggle Buddha himself had to go through."

C4rl0s said:
I don't know why you have "halfquoted" me - maybe I'm not explaint rightly- but acting in that way, I think we may lost the main point of this thread, it would be, if someone pretends to talk the genuine Soto Zen, then this individual must explain what understand of genuine Soto Zen, i. e., what she understands - you, Matylda - about the Dogen's perspective of zazen, of Buddhism.


Malcolm wrote:
Matylda’ s point, for quite some time and very consistently, has been that you won’t find genuine Soto merely by reading Dogen and practicing what one thinks he means by shikantaza. You will only find it by working with a realized teacher and that the transmission of realization in Soto has been lost in the past 100 years or so.

She has asserted that there are no realized teachers of Soto Zen in Japan today that she knows of, that Soto has become lost in Dogen scholasticism and rhetorical posturing about practice = realization, etc. To the extent that Dogen scholasticism and rhetoric is reproduced amongst American exponents of Soto, one can infer she doesn’t think it’s likely there are any realized American Soto teachers either.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 8:41 PM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
What we can conclude from the above is that there is no institutional continuity from Soto in Japan to America.

Matylda said:
But japanese shumucho the administrative body over all soto school on all continents, is supervising the activity of its priests, whether Japanese or non-Japnese. They even give some financial support to those outside of Japan. So there is somehow institutional continuity in the sense of administration and regulations.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, its priests, but not for example, the SZBA’s preists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 9:05 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
What we can conclude from the above is that there is no institutional continuity from Soto in Japan to America.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 9:00 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


Anders said:
I am also concerned regarding my impression that it is a whole lot easier to get dharma transmission in soto than in rinzai (I know, different terms, processes, etc. but I am sure people can catch the drift here).

Matylda said:
Yes that is true. In soto basically every priest has dharma transmission. But it is also true in Chinese zen as far as I know from Chinese monks and nuns.

Genjo Conan said:
Are we talking about Japan or the US, here?  It is not true that, in the US, "basically every priest has dharma transmission."

Malcolm wrote:
What I find most significant about this system of ecclesiastical grades is that dharma transmission provides access to only a relatively low grade. It is listed as a requirement for the very lowest ecclesiastical status, that of an instructor third class (santo kyoshi). Thus, in present day Soto Zen, dharma transmission constitutes a preliminary step, after which one’s real develop- ment begins. The relatively low status of dharma transmission means that in and of itself it does not qualify one to accept students or to train disciples. According to the regulations, Zen students should be supervised only by a teacher who has attained supervisory certification (i.e., sanzen dojo shike status), that is, someone who in the popular literature might be called a Zen master. To attain supervisory certification requires not just high ecclesiastical grades and dharma seniority but also at least three years’ experience as an assistant su- pervisor at a specially designated training hall (tokubetsu sodo), during which time one undergoes an apprenticeship. This monastic apprenticeship agrees with the popular image of Zen Buddhism as a form of extreme asceticism. The popular image, however, reflects only a limited view of Zen life. These training halls are found at only about one hundred of the nearly 14,000 temples that constitute the modern Soto school. The vast majority of Soto Zen religious activities occur not at the training halls but at the local temples.
Today, the key authority conferred by dharma transmission is that it qualifies a priest to manage an ordinary (jun hochi) local temple.

Bodiford,

And:

While dharma transmission has never been restricted exclusively to clergy, it always has been controlled by ordained members of the clergy, that is, by people who receive rites of ordination, shave their heads, and wear Bud- dhist robes. Within this group, dharma transmission always has been a matter of insider knowledge, discussed only by the clerical elite, who themselves have been initiated into a dharma lineage. For ordinary lay people, in contrast, the much more obvious public social distinction bestowed by ordination always has been of prime importance, since it is the people with shaved heads and Buddhist robes who can generate karmic merit for the laity by accepting their gifts. At Zen Centers in North America, however, a lay-clerical distinction based on gift giving (by laity) and generating merit (by priests) is all but meaningless. Most people see Zen (especially sitting Zen or zazen) as a form of self-realization or relaxation exercises that lay people can practice as well as (or better than) clerics.43 Within this context, lay practitioners who might care nothing about priestly status can, nonetheless, become very concerned about dharma transmission, who has it and who does not. From conversations among practitioners at different Zen Centers, it seems each Center has developed its own individual culture of dharma transmission: here it might signify eligi- bility to join a Center’s board of directors, there it might mark completion of a koan curriculum, and somewhere else it might be seen as equivalent to clerical ordination, and so forth.
These variations in the social significance assigned to dharma transmis- sion highlight the unsettled state of North American Zen communities. Differences in their respective histories, founders, economic circumstances, and facilities have imbued each Zen Center with its own distinctive culture and idiosyncrasies. The Dharma Heritage Ceremony serves to remind Soto priests from these dissimilar Centers of the collective tradition they share. It provides a common ritual in which all of them can participate simultaneously, jointly offer homage to the founders of one another’s lineages, and formally acknowledge one another as religious peers.44 Clearly, it is designed to help foster the development of a new shared culture of dharma transmission. Each of the individual elements within the ceremony (the setting, musical instru- ments, processions, prostrations, circumambulations, prostrations, chants, and so forth) consist of standard Zen ritual practices as performed at Buddhist temples in Japan. The ceremony as a whole, its format and sequence as well as its emphasis on mutual affirmation, however, presents something new and uniquely American. Significantly, it concludes with all the participants chanting the Zen hymn known as the Harmony of Difference and Sameness, a title that aptly expresses the goal of the ceremony itself and the task now faced by the SZBA.45 Thus, the ceremony represents a development of traditional ritual forms for new purposes in a new land. It is a development that reflects both the growing maturity of Zen traditions in North America and their precarious, difficult quest to harmonize imported and native, old and new, similar and different.

Bodiford,

Just for context….


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 8:31 AM
Title: Roshibot, the future of Zen?
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 8:11 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
C4rl0s said:
Hi Matylda

Matylda said:
"We should be critical of soto, rinzai and obaku whenever they loose their essense. They are not immune and godly untouchable systems of practice and experience. The name soto etc. does not give to anyone diplomatic immunity. It is us, humans who run the show, and if we miss the point, we should be at least informed about it."

C4rl0s said:
Yes. And, precisely, if we dont want to miss the point, and we actually talk about a genuine Zen, a genuinue Soto Zen in this case, we must do it standing for a right perspective of Dôgen.
I think the next famous passage from Genjōkōan - recall this was the first chapter of Shôbôgenzô in the earliest version - is truly enlightenment about that (quoted from BDK version):

"To learn Buddha's truth is to learn ourselves. To learn ourselves is to forget ourselves. To forget ourselves is to be experienced by the myriad of dharma. To be experienced by the myriad of dharma is to let our body and mind, and the body and mind of the external world, fall away. There is a state in which traces of realization is forgotten; and it manifests the traces of forgotten realization for a long, long time."

Note not only learning is importance, but also forgetting. Learning and forgetting are like our two legs; if we want walk, we cant do it just with only one of them at all. Learning and forgetting are decisive not only in Shôbôgenzô, but also in Zen, as well as in Buddha's Way.

Finally, kensho is not about someone who has seen something than others haven't seen it. Kensho is about seeing we must not give up our practice not even a lapse of time.



Malcolm wrote:
I think, if you read carefully, Matylda is saying that you won’t find what Dogen was talking about in any of Dogen’s writings, which according to her, have no bearing on the question of realization in the Soto School, as she understands it, since, as I understand what she is saying, what Dogen was talking about is only found in the interaction between teacher and student, and not in any books.

She has been quite adamant on the point that realization on Soto is dead. She has also suggested that Soto needs to be revived by a blood transfusion from Rinzai.

The situation in American Zen is even stranger, with whole lines of teachers and their students to whom they have conferred inka having conflicts with one another, or so I have heard.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 4:24 AM
Title: Re: Nyasa in buddhist or bon tantras
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You are not right. For example, we have the body mandalas of Cakrasamvara, Hevajra, etc.

From a Dzogchen POV, this is all of minimal importance.

fckw said:
Ok, fair enough. But is this also practiced widely? My impression is that there are more practitioners engaged in either mahamudra or dzogchen than in such explicit body mandala practice. Even tummo seems to be more widely taught and practiced. I don't have any stats though, it's just my impression.

Malcolm wrote:
Hevajra is widely practiced in Sakya; Cakrasamvara body mandala is widely practiced in Kagyu and Geluk.

fckw said:
By the way, maybe this is also of interest as some background info to readers in the context of my question:

Malcolm wrote:
The reason why there is a big debate about it is that it was and is widely practiced. I practiced Hevajra and Yogini body mandala sadhanas for many, many years, and have translated the Cakramsavara ones.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:


Giovanni said:
Scary. I suppose it is easy to fall into the trap of seeing these things through European eyes. And in Europe fundamentalist Christians are now a tiny minority. But clearly not elsewhere.

Malcolm wrote:
I dunno: Poland, Hungary, Russia, Serbia, etc., seem to have a lot of them. And in Western Europe, it will grow in direct proportion to cultural anxiety about migration from Africa and the Middle East. Also, American Fundies are spending a lot of money in Europe.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 2:16 AM
Title: Re: Nyasa in buddhist or bon tantras
Content:


fckw said:
Am I right that this is a subject that seems to be paid less attention to in buddhist or bon tantra? And if so, is there any particular reason for this?

Malcolm wrote:
You are not right. For example, we have the body mandalas of Cakrasamvara, Hevajra, etc.

From a Dzogchen POV, this is all of minimal importance.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 1:59 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


bowsamic said:
Thank you for this

Malcolm wrote:
Now you should apologize for accusing her of holding bad intentions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 1:35 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:



bowsamic said:
Again, what is with the fatalism? I don't care if you think there is really no chance, but I am not sure what your plan is in disseminating this information. Can you tell me your intentions plainly?

Malcolm wrote:
Speaking for Matylda, she cares because she comes from a Soto Family and she translates for Westerners at Zen temples, or has in the past.

bowsamic said:
Why must you speak for her? She has her own fingers.

Malcolm wrote:
Because I want to, because she is an old forum friend.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 1:31 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


bowsamic said:
Can you please propose something beyond "it's destroyed boohoo"? Again, imagining a better past is not relevant to life at this moment.

Matylda said:
But soto will never do it as it was 300 or 400 years ago. They are too proud of their great tradition. Then they are not going to show their terrible weakness. and third, they do not want to lose their position. It is easier to use Dogen, get phd and pretend to be great master of the monastery.

Human factor is the greatest obstacle, it is a bottom line of the entire problem.

bowsamic said:
Again, what is with the fatalism? I don't care if you think there is really no chance, but I am not sure what your plan is in disseminating this information. Can you tell me your intentions plainly?

Malcolm wrote:
Speaking for Matylda, she cares because she comes from a Soto Religious Family and she translates for Westerners at Zen temples, or has in the past. She is not a dilettante. She has more at stake here than you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 1:21 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:



bowsamic said:
Why do I have to do anything? Am I missing some kind of game you’re trying to play with me?

Malcolm wrote:
The one playing games here isn't me. It's you. Still laughing at "I’m simply warning you all." As if.

bowsamic said:
I honestly don’t understand what you are sceptical of here

Malcolm wrote:
Listen, buddy, you came in here, in an uncivil manner, interrupting a civil conversation, making ad hominem remarks about a respected person here. And then issuing warnings? Get a clue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 1:10 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
bowsamic said:
I’m simply warning you all.



Malcolm wrote:
You are going to have to do better than that. Maybe Jundo will threaten to sue Dharmawheel.

bowsamic said:
Why do I have to do anything? Am I missing some kind of game you’re trying to play with me?

Malcolm wrote:
The one playing games here isn't me. It's you. Still laughing at "I’m simply warning you all." As if.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 1:06 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
bowsamic said:
I’m simply warning you all.



Malcolm wrote:
You are going to have to do better than that. Maybe Jundo will threaten to sue Dharmawheel.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 12:59 AM
Title: Re: Acccording to Bahudhatukasutta in the Pali Canon, there can't be a female Buddha, how Tara can be a buddha then?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
woman cannot be a Buddha.[/i]

It is saying that a Buddha cannot have a female body, not that a women cannot eventually become a buddha, albeit, in a male body.

Shinjin said:
What if one is born with a female body but then transitions to a male in the current life?

Malcolm wrote:
In the modern transgender sense of "transition?" Not according to any Abhidharma or Vinaya idea on the subject. You can't even ordain as a monk.

But lots of people attain buddhahood imagining themselves as female buddhas like Vajrayogini, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 12:54 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:



bowsamic said:
I am, of course, both, but the person in question has not demonstrated any effort to construct or improve. I know their intentions are bad.

Malcolm wrote:
You've been around for about two years. Matylda has been around for two decades, beginning with E-Sangha. I am pretty sure she has more weight here than you do and has participated in many more constructive conversations than you. You have no idea what her intentions are, unless you are capable somehow of reading people's minds. So, you really ought to refrain from ad hominem statements.

bowsamic said:
I’m not sure what time and “weight” have to do with Zen. Can you explain how these concepts are related to the future of Soto Zen? I am not being satirical, I’m very serious here, almost too much so, but we cannot be lenient here. Unless you are taking this as kind of a joke?

Malcolm wrote:
"Weight" here means experience, knowledge, and a demonstrated involvement in the subject going back decades. You are just some anonymous person on the internet, no one knows who you are. You can say anything and there are no consequences. So, sorry, but I cannot take you seriously at all. You could of course tell who you are, what your qualifications are, and so on.

bowsamic said:
Your quote of ME was cut off

Malcolm wrote:
And? Your whole post was referenced by the up arrow next to your name. It is inefficient to reproduce whole posts. It makes the reply harder to read. As we can see in your indignant reply.

BTW, she did suggest alternatives. You just are late to the convo.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
bowsamic said:
If someone has the gall to suggest that all modern Soto Zen is a sham, and that no modern teachers have any idea what they are doing...

Malcolm wrote:
Hakuin certainly had an opinion:

Anyone who would call himself a member of the Zen family must first of all achieve kenshō—realization of the Buddha’s Way. If a person who has not achieved kenshō says he is a follower of Zen, he is an outrageous fraud.

Ekaku, Hakuin. Wild Ivy (p. 1). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

So, the concern isn't new.

bowsamic said:
You missed off the second half of that sentence: Hakuin was very constructive in his concerns and strove for awakening and was influential in that regard. Can we say the same of Matylda?

Malcolm wrote:
No, I cited the half of the paragraph. I did not cut off any sentences. Here is another extract from the following paragraph:

The Zen school—members of the Rinzai, Sōtō, and Ōbaku lineages—is regarded as being foremost among them all. In recent times, however, the Zen schools have been engaging in the practice of “silent illumination,” doing nothing but sitting lifelessly like wooden blocks. What, aside from that, do you suppose they consider their most urgent concern? Well, they witter on about being “men of nobility” who have “nothing at all to do.” They proceed to live up to that self-proclaimed role. Consuming lots of good rice. Passing day after day in a state of seated sleep. The surplice and cotton robe they wear as Buddhist priests is no more than a disguise.

Ekaku, Hakuin. Wild Ivy (p. 2). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

Or how about these  paragraphs:

But for the past hundred years, ever since the passing of National Master Gudō,4 advocates of blind, withered-up, silent illumination Zen have appeared within the Rinzai, Sōtō, and Ōbaku schools. In spots all over the country, they band together, flicking their fingers contemptuously, pishing and pughing: “Great satori eighteen times! Small satoris beyond count! Pah! It’s ridiculous. If you’re enlightened, you’re enlightened. If you’re not, you’re not. For a human being, the severing of the life-root that frees you from the clutches of birth-and-death is the single great matter. How can you count the number of times it happens—as if it were a case of diarrhea! 

“Ta-hui made statements like that because he was ignorant of the supreme, sublime Zen that is to be found at the highest reaches of attainment. Supreme Zen, at the highest reaches, does not belong to a dimension that human understanding of any kind can grasp or perceive. It is a matter of simply being Buddhas the way we are right now—‘covered bowls of plain unvarnished wood.’ It is the state of great happiness and peace, the great liberation. Put a stop to all the chasing and hankering in your mind. Do not interfere or poke around after anything whatever. That mind-free state detached from all thought is the complete and ultimate attainment.” 

These people, true to their words, do not do a single thing. They engage in no act of religious practice; they don’t develop a shred of wisdom. They just waste their lives dozing idly away like comatose badgers, useless to their contemporaries while they live, completely forgotten after they die. They aren’t capable of leaving behind even a syllable of their own to repay the profound debt they owe to the Buddha patriarchs.

Ekaku, Hakuin. Wild Ivy (pp. 55-56). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

Matylda is talking about what she sees in Japan, not the US.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 12:45 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
bowsamic said:
Remember that anyone you speak to here is at best an opinionated fanatic and at worst totally ignorant.

Malcolm wrote:
So are you an opinionated fanatic, totally ignorant, or somewhere in between?

bowsamic said:
I am, of course, both, but the person in question has not demonstrated any effort to construct or improve. I know their intentions are bad.

Malcolm wrote:
You've been around for about two years. Matylda has been around for two decades, beginning with E-Sangha. I am pretty sure she has more weight here than you do and has participated in many more constructive conversations than you. You have no idea what her intentions are, unless you are capable somehow of reading people's minds. So, you really ought to refrain from ad hominem statements.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 12:42 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
bowsamic said:
If someone has the gall to suggest that all modern Soto Zen is a sham, and that no modern teachers have any idea what they are doing...

Malcolm wrote:
Hakuin certainly had an opinion:

Anyone who would call himself a member of the Zen family must first of all achieve kenshō—realization of the Buddha’s Way. If a person who has not achieved kenshō says he is a follower of Zen, he is an outrageous fraud.

Ekaku, Hakuin. Wild Ivy (p. 1). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

So, the concern isn't new.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 11:29 PM
Title: Re: Acccording to Bahudhatukasutta in the Pali Canon, there can't be a female Buddha, how Tara can be a buddha then?
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
How many Brahmas are there?

Malcolm wrote:
Many thousands, actually.

I don’t think that someone should read this sutta and conclude that a woman cannot be a Buddha.

It is saying that a Buddha cannot have a female body, not that a women cannot eventually become a buddha, albeit, in a male body.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 11:16 PM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:



Anders said:
/C authentic soto zen that does not emphasise the importance of realisation, employ koans to any notable extent, but nonetheless train, study and teach in a manner that produces similar result to /B

Matylda said:
Yes I knew one or two teachers, who were very impressive, masters of shikan taza. But at least one of them was on his own, and did not keep to soto ranks. The other one was within the ranks and had 3rd or so position at honzan but was critical of monastery authenticity of practice and warned my friend not to stay there for long and adviced him a soto master who used koans.
But koan or shikna taza is not the issue I think, but genuity of ones realization, whatever way of zazen one follows.

So though there were very few individuals, they kept away from the official soto, or were very critical of it. So these few examples were no match for shumucho bureaucracy or sholardom of Komazawa, those two big powers which shape soto zen in Japan for last 100 years. So those few had no influence on soto whatsoever.

Malcolm wrote:
The problem with all of this, Matylda, indeed the whole discussion, is verification. How is a person who has never experienced kensho/satori, etc. able to ascertain someone who has and thus select them as a teacher? It is an act of faith, pure and simple. And that faith then turns into a confirmation bias.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 11:13 PM
Title: Re: Non dual people
Content:
Tao said:
Mahayana is somehow non-dual as non-duality claims the absence of subject-object separation.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a difference between nondual (advaya) and nonduality (Advaita).

Tao said:
In spanish they are just the adjective and the noun, but they dont carry variations on the meaning.

Is it different in sanscrit?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, completely. The tā particle makes all the difference.

There are many "nondual" things described in Buddhist sūtras: for example the absence of the duality of existence and nonexistence, or subject and object, etc., or nondual behavior in the tantras, where one makes no distinctions between the food of outcastes and brahmins, for example.

Nonduality however the idea that there is only one ontological state of sat, cit, ananda, being, consciousness, and bliss, characteristic of forms of Vedanta and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 11:06 PM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
Kai lord said:
Words like "Many" and "small" are subjective, hence I prefer to use objective figures or numbers like millions.

Not just prefer to Christians but to any zealots that believe in "talking donkey, ants, birds or monkeys"

Bristollad said:
Taking the objective fact that there are millions of people who identify as Christian but then pejoratively ascribing a non-sensical belief to all of them on the basis that some hold it, is not objective at all.

My subjective experience is no Christian I have ever met and discussed this with has believed in a young earth or taken every word in the Bible literally.  Fundamentalists of all stripes hold a minority view in my experience.

Malcolm wrote:
You clearly have never been to the Bible Belt.

https://creationmuseum.org/events/workshops/explore-jr/fossils/

Join us as we examine dating methods, fossils, and dinosaurs from a biblical worldview. The evidence from a biblical worldview clearly shows that the earth is young, and Noah’s global flood buried organisms creating the vast majority of fossils just a few thousand years ago.

Taking the talking rabbits in the Jatakas, and so on, literally, is about on the same level as this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 10:14 PM
Title: Re: Acccording to Bahudhatukasutta in the Pali Canon, there can't be a female Buddha, how Tara can be a buddha then?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
6.­32
Śāriputra: Goddess, what prevents you from transforming yourself out of your female state?163
Goddess: Although I have sought my “female state” for these twelve years, [F.213.a] I have not yet found it. Reverend Śāriputra, if a magician were to incarnate a woman by magic, would you ask her, “What prevents you from transforming yourself out of your female state?”
6.­33
Śāriputra: No! Such a woman would not really exist, so what would there be to transform?
Goddess: Just so, reverend Śāriputra, all things do not really exist. Now, would you think, “What prevents one whose nature is that of a magical incarnation from transforming herself out of her female state?”
6.­34
Thereupon, the goddess employed her magical power to cause the elder Śāriputra to appear in her form and to cause herself to appear in his form. Then the goddess, transformed into Śāriputra, said to Śāriputra, transformed into a goddess, “Reverend Śāriputra, what prevents you from transforming yourself out of your female state?”
And Śāriputra, transformed into the goddess, replied, “I no longer appear in the form of a male! My body has changed into the body of a woman! I do not know what to transform!”
6.­35
The goddess continued, “If the elder could again change out of the female state, then all women could also change out of their female states. All women appear in the form of women in just the same way as the elder appears in the form of a woman. While they are not women in reality, they appear in the form of women. With this in mind, the Buddha said, ‘In all things, there is neither male nor female.’ ”
6.­36
Then, the goddess released her magical power and each returned to their ordinary form. She then said to him, “Reverend Śāriputra, what have you done with your female form?”
Śāriputra: I neither made it nor did I change it.
Goddess: Just so, all things are neither made nor changed, and that they are not made and not changed, that is the teaching of the Buddha.

https://read.84000.co/translation/UT22084-060-005.html#UT22084-060-005-chapter-6


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 9:30 PM
Title: Re: Non dual people
Content:
Tao said:
Mahayana is somehow non-dual as non-duality claims the absence of subject-object separation.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a difference between nondual (advaya) and nonduality (Advaita).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 9:24 PM
Title: Re: Karma as a Product of Ignorance
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
in the Yogacara tradition

BareBones said:
Am I correct in assuming that this Yogacarin understanding of Karma was accepted and integrated into the Madhyamaka viewpoint?

Malcolm wrote:
No. The Madhyamaka perspective does not accept the Yogacara perspective.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 9:21 PM
Title: Re: A breaking news editor and zen meditation
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You all realize this post was just to drive clicks to this NYT article. The user has not been back since he made the post, hence no interest in engagement.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming - Science and Politics
Content:
Archie2009 said:
Never buy a Tesla:

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed. They are a total grift.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 8:19 AM
Title: Re: anyone do HEMA? (Historical European Martial Arts)
Content:
Sādhaka said:
And/or LARPing





climb-up said:
That looks very fun.
Some of rules are a little silly in terms of recreating accurate historical swordfightimg (eg not taking into account edge alignment or power, not head shots, still squaring off from your knees because your legs have been disabled) ..:
…but I would absolutely try that.

EDIT: I don’t mean the above to be dismissive. I imagine the rule set could potentially cause some bad habits, but of course more time spent reacting to high speed swords coming at you could probably develop some really good attributes too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 7:11 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
kirtu said:
Please name a Jataka tale with a telepathic talking rabbit as a main teaching lesson.


Malcolm wrote:
https://www.himalayanart.org/items/50196

Then there is this one, about Buddha’s life as a sharabha, a six legged mythical animal.

https://www.himalayanart.org/items/50215

kirtu said:
This is false.  The animal is question was a sharabha, a mythical creature.  And it wasn't telepathic, talking or a rabbit.  And as before it's status as an animal is not central to the message of the tale which was having compassion for an "enemy".

(...)

Malcolm wrote:
The sharabha was just an example of a mythical animal. It’s quite dishonest of you to continue to claim I was talking about telepathic rabbits. Your whole post is a violation of TOS, since it is a metadiscussion, etc., and will be reported as such.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 3:55 AM
Title: Re: anyone do HEMA? (Historical European Martial Arts)
Content:
climb-up said:
Just curious if there any HEMA practitioners here and, if so, what you do.

Malcolm wrote:
Careful, HEMA is a gateway drug to SFCA. Next thing you know you'll be doing cosplay at renaissance fairs. You've been warned.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 2:52 AM
Title: Re: Non dual people
Content:
White Lotus said:
The only way I know to relinquish the compounded is to go back to nature which is nameless and formless.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that's called nirvana, but it isn't a nature at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 1:54 AM
Title: Re: Non dual people
Content:


Jokingfish said:
I've heard a lot that such folks say they have zero suffering, but claim that pain is real to them.. Maybe they just suffer less? Well, they know themselves, so they don't interpret the pain, so then there's no suffering.. What about stress, or as i called discomfort, can non dual people get that?

Malcolm wrote:
They probably don't understand the Buddha's presentation of the three kinds of suffering: the suffering of suffering (intense painful experiences), the suffering of change, and the suffering of the compounded.

If they understand these three kinds of suffering, then they might have a different answer. The only way to be free of the third kind of suffering is to put an end to rebirth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 1:44 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:


Vajrasvapna said:
The fact that the Buddha was also a crown prince too must mean something.

Malcolm wrote:
He was the son of a minor chief of a tribe who elected their leaders, so not a crown prince of anything.

Vajrasvapna said:
Please give me a source so I can learn more.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, there is the Pali Canon, for one. Kapilavastu was probably a oligarchic republic, actually, not a absolute monarchy.

You can look in the works of Bronkhorst on the social milieu of Magadha:

Aśvaghoṣa’s detailed description of the Buddha’s father as an ideal Brahmanical king contrasts sharply with other contemporary biographies of the Buddha. The Mahāvastu, for all its length, has very little to say about Śuddhodana’s accomplishments as a king. And the Lalitavistara presents him as an ideal Buddhist king, without using any Brahmanical terminology.41 Indeed, it would seem that Aśvaghoṣa has himself invented the elaborate descriptions of the ideal kingship of the Buddha’s father, perhaps with the conscious purpose of glorifying Brahmanical notions.

https://www.academia.edu/81618515/Misunderstood_Origins_How_Buddhism_Fooled_Modern_Scholarship_and_Itself


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 1:13 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
In Dzogchen, there is the common phrase, "the intimate instruction that does not come from scriptures."

Matylda said:
how is it in tibetan letters? I mean not in roman alphabet but in original tibetan script.

Malcolm wrote:
In the Gongpa Zangthal transmission, it is described thus:

རང་འབྱུང་ཆོས་གསུམ༔ རྒྱུ་ལས་མ་བྱུང་བའི་འབྲས་བུ༔ སེམས་ལས་མ་བྱུང་བའི་སངས་རྒྱས༔ ལུང་ལ་མ་བརྟེན་པའི་མན་ངག་གོ༔

"The three self-originated dharmas are the result that does not arise from a cause, the buddhahood that does not come from the mind, and the intimate instruction that does not depend on a scripture."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Astus said:
'Special transmission outside the teachings' (教外別傳) is a slogan used to distinguish the Zen school from everyone else.

Malcolm wrote:
In Sino-Japanese Buddhism.

In Dzogchen, there is the common phrase, "the intimate instruction that does not come from scriptures."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 28th, 2023 at 12:32 AM
Title: Re: Barbie
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
The gynecologist,

Malcolm wrote:
I think, in order to avoid a TERF war, we should just rename "gynecologists" "human plumbing specialists" and train them in dealing with the full range of human anatomical variation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: Karma and Dependent Origination
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
In terms of karma, the stream metaphor also satisfies the question of continuation from lifetime to lifetime without falling into the trap of atman or other Brahminist explanation.

Malcolm wrote:
So in the end we are left with the the fact that karma is just an illusion created by an illusion, just as Nagārjuna states in the MMK.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Right. But does this illusion perpetuate? Does it produce another illusion? Even in a dream there can be the appearance that some kind of cause and effect is occurring.

Malcolm wrote:
Nāgārjuna likens karma to an illusion which itself produces another illusion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 11:20 PM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Um, Astus, he straight up calls it a forgery, along with the Sūtra of Perfect Enlightenment, and another text. I checked the BDK translation against the Shambhala edition.

Astus said:
Nevertheless he quotes from the Platform Sutra and presents those as authentic teachings of Huineng.

Malcolm wrote:
As you said, perhaps he is quoting from a source with material common to the Platform Sutra. That's a text critical issue. It is strange to see someone call a text a forgery, and also quote from it as authentic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: Karma and Dependent Origination
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
In terms of karma, the stream metaphor also satisfies the question of continuation from lifetime to lifetime without falling into the trap of atman or other Brahminist explanation.

Malcolm wrote:
Nah, it just substitutes one unwieldy theory of karma and its ripening for another one.

If a vasana merely reproduces itself in the mind stream, waiting to meet special condition for the arising of its result, this is similar to asserting that a rice seed merely reproduces itself until it meets water, mud, and sunshine.

If one asserts the trace itself remains in the mindstream unchanged, one has to then create a theory of how that trace exists in the mind as something carried by the mind. This latter theory is slightly more preferable, according to Nagārjuna, it's based on the Buddha's comment that karma is like a debt that exists until it is paid. But even this theory won't hold up to analysis. So in the end we are left with the the fact that karma is just an illusion created by an illusion, just as Nagārjuna states in the MMK.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It is interesting to learn that Dogen rejected the Platform Sutra.

Astus said:
Maybe in some sense, or in certain contexts, but he does quote from it (or parts that he might have found in other collections) a couple of times.

Malcolm wrote:
Um, Astus, he straight up calls it a forgery, along with the Sūtra of Perfect Enlightenment, and another text. I checked the BDK translation against the Shambhala edition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 9:07 PM
Title: Re: Karma and Dependent Origination
Content:
Tao said:
I dont know in the past, but non-eternalistic non-idealistic yogachara for me is the more acurate buddhist aproximation to the nature of mind, and quite compatible with neuro-science. And also a great upaya for non-attachment.

For non-eternalistic I mean that every function (vijnana) even Alaya, are sunyata (and anicca). Not an object.

For non-idealistic I mean that all characteristics are a co-emergence in mind, but there's external noumena (which is sunyata and anicca too). Noumena is a complex thing like quantum mechanics is starting to show. Not objects.

Maybe it have never existed such thing like this neo-Yogachara, but it's nthe way I see it.

Is there any big problem with that position? can it be held?

Best wishes

Malcolm wrote:
The nonsubstantialist understanding of Yogacara sutras is to be found in Candrakirti.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 9:04 PM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
Kai lord said:
Its all about marketing and sponsorship. After all, all major religions still exist in this world today did the same feat.

Vajrasvapna said:
The fact that the Buddha was also a crown prince too must mean something.

Malcolm wrote:
He was the son of a minor chief of a tribe who elected their leaders, so not a crown prince of anything.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 8:50 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
Amelius brought up the rabbit.
Every thing after that was meant in fun.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I brought up the rabbit, Jataka #6, Story of the Hare.

The four friends, the rabbit, otter, jackal, and monkey, approach Sakra disguised as a brahmin, and said to him, presumably in human language:

You need not worry
about being lost in the forest. 
With us you will feel 
as if you were with disciples..."

So, not only a talking rabbit, but a talking monkey, otter, and jackal.

This Jataka also explains why there is a rabbit in the moon.

kirtu said:
Yes, I thought that was supposed to be your reference.  However the rabbit is not telepathic.

Malcolm wrote:
I never said it was.

The rest of your post is off-base.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 6:33 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
Aryjna said:
The rabbit story also seems to lack any actually useful meaning, since it is supposed to be an example of generosity through killing oneself just so that some random guy can have stew, rather than porridge or whatever else he would end up having otherwise, on a "holy day".

Edit: The guest would have already eaten seven fish, a lizard, some sour milk, and a few mangos, so rabbit stew would be course number 5 and he would likely have to barf up some of what he head eaten up to that point to make room for it. Also, the rabbit was apparently teaching the dharma which it would be unable to continue doing after killing itself. All in all, the meaning of the story seems to actually contradict the dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
Quite the tasting menu.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 6:02 AM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming - Science and Politics
Content:
PemaSherab said:
Ugh!


"Florida ocean records ‘unprecedented’ temperatures similar to a hot tub"


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/25/florida-ocean-temperatures-hot-tub-extreme-weather

Malcolm wrote:
Can't wait for hurricane season...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 3:29 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
I have to complete a budget proposal so don't have time to write much.  Re: Suzuki, he said this about satori:
When, four months before his death, I had the opportunity to ask him why satori didn't figure in his book, his wife leaned toward me and whispered impishly, "It's because he hasn't had it"; whereupon the Roshi batted his fan at her in mock consternation and with finger to his lips hissed, "Shhhh!  Don't tell him!"  When our laughter had subsided, he said simply, "It's not that satori is unimportant, but it's not the part of Zen that needs to be stressed."

ZMBM, at p. ix (2011 ed.)
He never denied satori.  It's just that, according to Suzuki, a focus on satori--how do we get there?  Am I doing it right? How long is it going to take?--is unhelpful and probably counterproductive.  His focus was rather on how we live our lives.  My dharma grandfather was one of Suzuki's students and once asked him "what is nirvana?"  Suzuki's response was: "to see one thing through completely to the end."

Malcolm wrote:
Its sort of like when budding Dzogchen practitioners spend lots of time perseverating over rainbow body, rather than trying to separate samsara and nirvana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 1:53 AM
Title: Re: Magicians...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
An interesting article on J.F.C. Fuller, and Yeats-Brown called Fascist Yogis.

May bear some relevance to the right/left convergence in Qanon and Anti-Vaxx madness:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-british-studies/article/fascist-yogis-martial-bodies-and-imperial-impotence/3065324106F13435B9917349C15B1D97

Generally, it becomes clear the main problem people had with Crowley is that he was bisexual. That is pretty well portrayed in this article.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: Magicians...
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
I know about Crowley enough to know he'd get a kick out of the way people still talk about him.

Honestly Crowley is super fun. Wealthy lunatic, poet and adventurer (spiritual and worldly). In short English major's wet dream.

Say what you want but you have to admit that few occultists shaped the culture quite like he did. John Dee and Kelley come to mind, and Dr. Faustus (if he existed). And that is quite something. But unlike them he became a counter culture icon, heh a sort of adversary if you will.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, Edward Kelley was regarded as quite a scoundrel, and if I am not mistaken, Crowley considered him to be one his past incarnations...but you are correct, everyone who is interested in the WET tradition has to come to terms with Crowley. Crowley, it seems, was a spy for the British Government, according to Ian Fleming during WWI and in Germany prior to WWII.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 1:17 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
kirtu said:
you (the group proliferating straw person silliness intentionally because their arguments are not there) have no actual argument (wrt the point that an intelligent young person will be met in Buddhism with "telepathic talking rabbits" rather than logical arguments/observations).

PadmaVonSamba said:
Amelius brought up the rabbit.
Every thing after that was meant in fun.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I brought up the rabbit, Jataka #6, Story of the Hare.

The four friends, the rabbit, otter, jackal, and monkey, approach Sakra disguised as a brahmin, and said to him, presumably in human language:

You need not worry
about being lost in the forest. 
With us you will feel 
as if you were with disciples..."

So, not only a talking rabbit, but a talking monkey, otter, and jackal.

This Jataka also explains why there is a rabbit in the moon.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 1:05 AM
Title: Re: Magicians...
Content:
Knotty Veneer said:
Read enough to know anyone who holds his "teachings" in any esteem needs to grow up.

Malcolm wrote:
That's overly harsh. But if you don't appreciated the history of the Western Esoteric Tradition, you won't appreciate Crowley and his major role as its most important and productive exponent. You also won't appreciate the fact that he was one of the all time great explorers and mountaineers. And that he was instrumental in bring Buddhism to Britain, since Crowley financially supported Alan Bennet, and paid for the latter's initial journey to Shri Lanka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 27th, 2023 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: Magicians...
Content:


Knotty Veneer said:
Well it didn't do Crowley much good. He died a heroin addict.

Malcolm wrote:
Apparently you do not know why he was addicted to heroin. Crowley had extremely severe asthma, life-threateningly so. It was progressive and got worse as he aged. Until the Germans invented a medicine for controlling asthma in the early 20's, everyone with asthma as severe as his took heroin to control it. In fact, once that medicine was available to Crowley, he stopped taking heroin altogether until, in 1939, when WWII broke out, and this medicine was no longer available in Britain. So he, and many other people returned to using prescription heroin:

In 1898, Bayer & Co. introduced heroin as a pain reliever and cough suppressant. The company packaged and sold the drug in bottles like this one. Its amber glass and colorful label presented the newly commercialized product “Heroin” to customers as an effective, safe treatment. While stronger and cheaper than morphine, heroin is also more addictive. An Englishman discovered the drug’s compound in 1875. However, 20 years passed before German chemist and Bayer employee Felix Hoffmann synthesized it into heroin. Hoffmann also created aspirin, a groundbreaking medication that is still widely used today.

https://museum.dea.gov/museum-collection/collection-spotlight/artifact/heroin-bottle#:~:text=In%201898%2C%20Bayer%20%26%20Co.,as%20an%20effective%2C%20safe%20treatment.

Knotty Veneer said:
Crowley was a self-publicist and conman. Created woo-woo stories to titillate the English middle and upper-classes. Good for a yarn but little else.

Malcolm wrote:
It's pretty clear you don't know much about Aleister Crowley and have read little to nothing of his works.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 11:51 PM
Title: Re: Magicians...
Content:


climb-up said:
Well you could google Sam Webster’s “Tantric Thelema,” but you might be happier if you didn’t!

PeterC said:
File under "life's too short", alongside anything involving Crowley...

Malcolm wrote:
Come on, Peter, Crowley was one of the only interesting people in the stuffy world of Post-Masonic Victorian parlor esotericism. Undoubtedly one of the most interesting characters of the period between 1890 and 1925.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 11:45 PM
Title: Re: Magicians...
Content:
Knotty Veneer said:
Aleister Crowley. It's playing at spirituality.

Malcolm wrote:
Crowley, it bears repeating, along with his mentor, Alan Bennet (Bhikkhu Ananda Metteya), actually went to Burma, studied and practiced Buddhist meditation. Some of the very first westerners to do so.

Bennet is credited with bringing Buddhism to Britain:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Henry_Allan_Bennett


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 11:05 PM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
kirtu said:
Please name a Jataka tale with a telepathic talking rabbit as a main teaching lesson.


Malcolm wrote:
https://www.himalayanart.org/items/50196

Then there is this one, about Buddha’s life as a sharabha, a six legged mythical animal.

https://www.himalayanart.org/items/50215


Etc.

And, as you are surely aware, Aesop’s fables, the Jatakas, and the Panchatantra share about a dozen motifs, though different in details.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 8:36 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


kirtu said:
No, the lineage charts begin with Shakyamuni Buddha or Mahakashyapa usually (I haven't seen one in a while).  However while Soto is it's own institution, it came from Coadong lineage so it did not begin with Dogen Zenji.  He's just a great, realized master.[

Malcolm wrote:
The discussion revolves around what Dogen held to be so, and people are interpreting what he said as definitive for the Soto tradition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 8:29 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


Genjo Conan said:
There's an internet-famous Zen teacher who asserts that Dogen didn't believe in rebirth.  His support for this assertion is the sentence in the Genjokoan "Firewood becomes ash, and it does not become firewood again."

If you point out that Dogen also wrote things like this:



that gets written off as metaphor.  It's hard for a lot of people to accept that, while Dogen was an unorthodox thinker in many ways, his presentation of basic Buddhist and Mahayana doctrine was fundamentally orthodox.  So you tend to see some waffling.

Malcolm wrote:
Jundo is not a serious person.

Genjo Conan said:
...actually wasn't referring to Jundo, but to another internet-famous Zen teacher I honestly don't know what Jundo's view on rebirth is.

Malcolm wrote:
Precisely as you stated, down to words used and passage cited.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 5:32 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
I’m familiar with people quoting or mis-quoting Dogen to bolster such opinions, but to me the idea that they are doctrinal positions at all always seemed a little thin, when the origin appears to be cultural conditioning of a certain kind.

Genjo Conan said:
There's an internet-famous Zen teacher who asserts that Dogen didn't believe in rebirth.  His support for this assertion is the sentence in the Genjokoan "Firewood becomes ash, and it does not become firewood again."

If you point out that Dogen also wrote things like this:
What Kumaralabdha meant by the results from our wholesome and unwholesome actions take effect in the three periods is:

One: the result received in this lifetime.
Two: the result received in the next lifetime.
Three: the result received in a lifetime after the next.

These are called the three periods.  From the beginning of learning the way of buddha ancestors, we study and clarify the principle of the effects of karma in the three periods.  If we don't, many of us will make a mistake and fall into crooked views.  Not only do we fall into crooked views, we get into unwholesome realms and experience suffering for a long time.

(Shobogenzo Sanji Go)
that gets written off as metaphor.  It's hard for a lot of people to accept that, while Dogen was an unorthodox thinker in many ways, his presentation of basic Buddhist and Mahayana doctrine was fundamentally orthodox.  So you tend to see some waffling.

Malcolm wrote:
Jundo is not a serious person.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 2:26 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


kirtu said:
The Platform Sutra is an influencial Ch'an Text that subsequently influenced Son as well.  However Dogen was critical of the text.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, I've read the text several times over the past 45 years, and several studies on it. What escaped me until now was that Dogen thought it was fake. Dogen isn't just critical of it. He rejects it outright, as well as rejecting, outright, a term that has become controversial in Western Zen circles.

kirtu said:
Soto Zen does not end with Dogen.

Malcolm wrote:
It begins with Dogen, and his opinion is rather germane to the discussion about the present day anti-kensho movement in Soto we've been discussing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 1:38 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


kirtu said:
The Platform Sutra is an influencial Ch'an Text that subsequently influenced Son as well.  However Dogen was critical of the text.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, I've read the text several times over the past 45 years, and several studies on it. What escaped me until now was that Dogen thought it was fake. Dogen isn't just critical of it. He rejects it outright, as well as rejecting, outright, a term that has become controversial in Western Zen circles.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 12:53 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:



Aemilius said:
“From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. A being who has not been your mother, father, brother, sister, son, daughter at one time in the past is not easy to find”
quoted from Mata sutta, The Connected Discourses of the Buddha, A Translation of the Samyutta Nikaya, Bhikkhu Bodhi, Wisdom Publications 1999.

Malcolm wrote:
Even harder to find talking rabbits, unless we are talking Buddhas rebirth on an alien world where humans looked like rabbits.

MiphamFan said:
Maybe rabbits could talk when humans were living for 84,000 years.

Malcolm wrote:
When humans were living for 84,000 years, they did not have coarse bodies, but I am not sure there were rabbits at that time.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


Genjo Conan said:
So, to the extent that Soto Zen teachers--and again, there are some--deprecate awakening experiences (whether we want to call them kensho or something else), like I wrote earlier, I find that hard to square with the history of the school and with basic Mahayana doctrine.  My own belief--and this is what my teachers have taught me--is that Soto and Rinzai differ principally on method and outlook, not in the belief that awakening is the aspiration.


Malcolm wrote:
It appears to me that the whole issue actually is grounded around which source texts were considered acceptable by Dogen. I don't know enough about how the Platform Sutra was received in Japanese Zen as a whole, but I assume it is quite accepted by many. Maybe Meido could shed some light on this.

A question for you: how you understand the role of the Platform Sutra in your school? And perhaps Meido, Matylda, and Astus could weigh in here. When it is boiled down, it really seems that what is at issue is this text.


Genjo Conan said:
I think bodhicitta is the heart of Mahayana practice.  Without bodhicitta, I'm not sure what we're doing here.  I think that's just as true in Soto Zen as it is in any other branch of the Mahayana.  Dogen certainly believed so.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, bodhicitta is one of the three sublimities, as we call it: the first is relative bodhicitta, the aspiration to awaken; the second is ultimate bodhicitta, the union of śamatha and vipaśyanā, and the third is dedication. This is the essence of all Mahāyāna practice, including Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 12:06 AM
Title: Re: Taking Care of a Center
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
Hi,
I am fortunate enough to have an accessto a buddhist center. Sadly it is not used much so I mostly go there during weekends to dust, air, cut grass and such. However, since the place is in a village there is a lot of different lifeforms I sadly hurt and kill be it by accident or while gardening. That makes me question how meritorious it is to "help" in this way.

Malcolm wrote:
You could convince the owners to consider letting lawn go. Make it a pollinator garden, etc.

Könchok Thrinley said:
There is also a lot of dead flies and other bugs, is there a method or dharani with which I could bless them?

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, the six syllables of Samantabhadra, chanted in a state of contemplation, and then blowing on the deceased creature is sufficient.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 26th, 2023 at 12:01 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Matylda said:
it is absolutely false argument, since the term kensho was not used in the XIII century.. if Dogen did not like it, then nobody like the term kensho.. you cannot find it in texts of rinzai masters like Rankei Doryu, or Shoichi and others. It is sheer imputation that Dogen did not like the term kensho since he did not use it. It is wrong logic.

Astus said:
He did use it.

"Seeing the mind and seeing the nature (見性) is the animated activity of non-Buddhists."
(Sansuigyo, SBGZ, vol 1, p 219, BDK Edition; https://21dzk.l.u-tokyo.ac.jp/SAT2015/T2582_.82.0063b27:0063b28.cit )

"Some fellow has said, “Old Man Śākyamuni, besides expounding the teaching and the sutras throughout his life, also authentically transmitted to Mahākāśyapa the Dharma of the one mind which is the supreme vehicle, and this transmission has passed from rightful successor to rightful successor. So the teaching is opportunistic idle discussion, but the mind is the essential true reality. This authentically transmitted one mind is called ‘the separate transmission outside the teachings.’ It is not to be likened to discussion of the three vehicles and the twelve divisions of the teaching. Because the one mind is the supreme vehicle, we speak of ‘direct pointing into the human heart’ and ‘seeing the nature (見性) and becoming buddha.’” This expression is never about the everyday conduct of the Buddha-Dharma: it lacks the vigorous road of getting the body free, and it has no dignified behavior throughout the body. Fellows like this, even hundreds or thousands of years ago, were proclaiming themselves to be leading authorities; but we should know that, if they had such talk as this, they neither clarified nor penetrated the Buddha’sDharma and the Buddha’s truth."
(Bukkyo, SBGZ, vol 2, p 70, BDK Edition; http://21dzk.l.u-tokyo.ac.jp/SAT2015/T2582_.82.0107a13:0107a26.cit )

"The essence of the Buddha-Dharma is never seeing the nature (見性). Where has any of the Seven Buddhas or the twenty-eight patriarchs of India said that the Buddha-Dharma is only “seeing the nature” (見性)? The Sixth Patriarch’s Platform Sutra contains the words “seeing the nature,” (見性) but that text is a fake text; it is not the writing of one to whom the Dharma treasury was transmitted, and it is not the words of Sōkei. It is a text upon which descendants of the Buddhist Patriarch absolutely never rely."
(Shizen-biku, SBGZ, vol 4, p 269, BDK Edition; https://21dzk.l.u-tokyo.ac.jp/SAT2015/T2582_.82.0298b23:0298b29.cit )

Malcolm wrote:
It is interesting to learn that Dogen rejected the Platform Sutra.

An interesting corollary is that Sakya Paṇdita also rejected the idea of "seeing the nature of the mind" as a non-buddhist system, linked to his rejection of the Single White Remedy advanced by Lama Shang, etc.

Sapan and Dogen lived at the same time.

Genjo Conan said:
Again, commonly attributed to the Daruma Shu--and, according to Faure, to Tendai as well, with which Dogen was intimately familiar.
The kensho jobutsu theory advocated by Hui-neng in the Platform Sutra and by Shen-hui had been transmitted in the Tendai tradition (for example, in Saichos Kechimyakufu and in Daruma Daishi Sanron), and constituted the theme of Kensho Jobutsuron, one of the Daruma-shū's treatises.


Bernard Faure, The Daruma-shū, Dōgen, and Sōtō Zen, at n.60 (1987), available here: http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/DogenStudies/DarumaShu_Dogen_Soto.html#note60

I don't speak Japanese, so if Matylda wants to argue with the scholarship, I'm out of my league.  But that's the scholarship.

Malcolm wrote:
So, really, the root of the dispute is that not the Dogen rejected awakening, (obviously), he rejected a subitist term from a text he considered forged, one of the seminal texts of the entire Chan/Zen tradition. And in reading the rest of Faure's article, Dogen was critical of the Chinese founder of Rinzai as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
edit: I'm not especially inclined to fight about this.  Dogen wrote explicitly about enlightenment many times.

Matylda said:
I only used your own words We talk a lot about Dogen--and it's true, Dogen didn't like the term "kensho" and, to the best of my knowledge, didn't use it.
it is absolutely false argument, since the term kensho was not used in the XIII century.. if Dogen did not like it, then nobody like the term kensho.. you cannot find it in texts of rinzai masters like Rankei Doryu, or Shoichi and others. It is sheer imputation that Dogen did not like the term kensho since he did not use it. It is wrong logic.

Genjo Conan said:
Sigh.  Ok.

Malcolm wrote:
Matylda seems to have a valid point, based in text criticism. Instead of weariness, it should be confirmed, for example, when did the word "kensho" begin to be used in the modern manner and who was largely responsible for this.

These kinds of issues spring up in studying Nyingma literature written prior to the 13th century, and after, following Longchenpa's synthesis of Nyingma Vajrayāna teachings with Kadampa influences in his Great Chariot, which is the dominate approach today in the Nyingma school.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 8:16 PM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
Haven’t we all been?

Giovanni said:
Probably not.

Aemilius said:
“From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. A being who has not been your mother, father, brother, sister, son, daughter at one time in the past is not easy to find”
quoted from Mata sutta, The Connected Discourses of the Buddha, A Translation of the Samyutta Nikaya, Bhikkhu Bodhi, Wisdom Publications 1999.

Malcolm wrote:
Even harder to find talking rabbits, unless we are talking Buddhas rebirth on an alien world where humans looked like rabbits.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 11:05 AM
Title: Re: "soteriology"
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Eh, it’s pretty clear what’s meant when I read scholars, etc. employ this word. I’d rate it pretty low on my scale of inappropriate Buddhist jargon, personally.

Malcolm wrote:
Me too, howevr…


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 9:55 AM
Title: Re: "soteriology"
Content:
curtstein said:
One thing that complicates this is that like pretty much all Christian theological terms, soteriology predates Christianity,


Malcolm wrote:
soteriology:

1847, "a discourse on health;" 1864 in reference to the branch of theology which treats of salvation, from German soteriologie, from Greek sōtēria "preservation, salvation," from sōizein "save, preserve," related to sōs "safe, healthy," which is of uncertain origin (according to Watkins perhaps from PIE root *teue- "to swell," on the notion of "to be strong"). With -ology.

I think your concern is unfounded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 7:35 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:


Natan said:
I'm all for proper grammar, and proper introductions.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I am aware of this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 6:21 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:


Natan said:
It's the definition that matters. In credible translations, pristine awareness is often used. And there's no problem, because an author like Longchenpa devotes entire treatises to it's elucidation. The word brilliance could have been used instead with no problems. Even if one relies on archaic Indian terms, the specific use must be fleshed out. What Vidya means for one Indian tradition, has nothing to do with how it's meant in another. An Indophile preference doesn't seem helpful, nor does an attitude of "only this way and no other." If best translations are sought, knowledge, science, lucidity, cognizance and so forth can be used, but these hardly shed light on Vidya as used in Vajrayana teachings, let alone the elaborations made by Tibetans and their use of Rigpa which takes on very specific and even anatomical significance. For my money, of we are talking about concepts which have only Tibetan source materials, then, if the preference is for original terms, use Rigpa. Again what this word means among the various lineages of Tibet varies significantly. Just from my own organic growth trajectory, not interacting with many folks for a long time, I used Bindu or Bindi, plural. That seemed to wrap up all the permutations of meanings for me. I'm vary suspicious of anyone who is inflexible and has a my way or no way mentality.

natusake said:
The word literally means "knowledge". Adding "pristine" is interpretive at best, and plainly additive at worst. "Awareness" has already been criticized in this thread, and I haven't observed any compelling argument in its favor so far. Longchenpa explains that rigpa is a contraction of the phrase "one's own knowledge of pristine consciousness (yeshe)".

As I understand it, the equivalence between vidya and rigpa as terms comes from translation standards established in the transmission of Buddhist texts from India to Tibet. As Buddhists have the idea that our source material is Indic, whether evidence on a text-critical/historical basis for this is produced, as far as our own tradition and lineage is concerned I think it is appropriate to back translate technical terms into Sanskrit.

Natan said:
Whose tradition and lineage is that?

Malcolm wrote:
He is talking about a common term, from Hinayana though Dzogchen. In Sanskrit, pratyatmyavedanajñāna, so so rang gi rig pa'i ye shes. Gnosis which is personally known to oneself. This is literally how it is defined in all Buddhist traditions, and specifically, in chapter 1 of the Choying Dzod Commentary, Longchenpa asserts that the term "rig pa" is a contraction of so so rang gi rig pa'i ye shes, and so is rang rig.

"Pristine" because of "ye nas" which is a synonym of primordial, and so on. The word "primordial" is quite overused in Dzogchen translations. It's lazy and often grammatically incorrect, depending on which part of the sentence it belongs.

Natan said:
None of these words are going to call up an entrance to experience of Dzogchen without the kind of textual output someone like Longchenpa provides,

Malcolm wrote:
None of these words are going to call up anything other than a mishmash of ill-digested concepts if they are not explained properly according to the commentaries on the basis of a proper experiential introduction.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 6:04 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Anyone can deluded themselves into such as idea.

Astus said:
If one can delude oneself into trusting the Three Jewels and living ethically, that sounds like a beneficial delusion.

Malcolm wrote:
I was referring to the idea that one is certain that one has cut off birth in three lower realms merely through trusting the three jewels and following some vows. The three fetters referred to here, the most important is being free of a view of self.

Astus said:
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=153592#p153592 then, although points 5 and 6 are still about total renunciation.


Malcolm wrote:
No, I don't think so, unless I am missing some context due to the translation.

But to your point, in general, Mahāyāna, while a path of renunciation, does have a different approach to ethics than śrāvakayāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 4:50 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
clyde said:
If a realized Zen teacher isn’t able to know who is and is not realized, then who is? And how would a Zen student get confirmation?

Astus said:
To assess the level of one's initial attainment the Buddha has provided the 'mirror of the teaching' (e.g. https://suttacentral.net/sn55.8/en/sujato ).

Malcolm wrote:
Anyone can deluded themselves into such as idea.

Astus said:
The Buddha has also talked about how to test if somebody claims to be liberated ( https://suttacentral.net/mn112/en/sujato ),

Malcolm wrote:
If one is a follower of śravakayāna. But that is only applicable to those on the path of renunciation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 4:39 AM
Title: Tasting Sugar
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This post was conceived elsewhere, but it is being born here:

clyde said:
There are a few Zen teachers who have publicly spoken about their kensho/satori, including Meido (Rinzai) and Guo Gu (Chan), but a more open and honest discussion of Zen teachers and students regarding realization would be controversial - but would be revitalizing.

Malcolm wrote:
The issues you raise, Clyde, are not just in Zen. The issues you raise are endemic in Western Budddhism. Why? In general if you make light of yourself, in Asia everyone will think maybe you have depth you are hiding. In America, and to a lesser extent in Europe, if you don't loudly proclaim who you are, set out your achievements and qualifications, if you tell people that you really don't have any qualities, Western people, especially Americans, will believe you and move on. There is a saying in Tibet, "An empty bucket makes the most noise."

It's really easy to talk about sugar to someone who has not tasted it. You can use all kinds of words. However none of them will permit the person to have insight into what it tastes like. And worse, people can use these words to deceive those who have never tasted sugar (including themselves) into believing that the person describing sugar (which they have never tasted) has actually tasted sugar, selling sugar substitutes, such as saccharine and aspartame.

Ordinary students who have never tasted sugar will never be able tell who has tasted sugar just because some teacher with a name proclaims everywhere, "I have tasted sugar!" advertising their retreats and seminars to the Tricyle/Lion's Roar/ Patreon/Wisdom/Shambhala audience. There is no guarantee that such a person who is advertising some brand of sugar has actually tasted the sugar they are selling, even when they claim someone else signed off on their sales license. Realization, whatever word you use for it, kensho, satori, rig pa, is not something which one can successfully discuss with people who do not have that experience. If one is not a teacher, one should not really try to either.

People who have had that experience recognize that trying to convey this experience in words is fraught with peril, that it can be misleading. Meido mentions this in his brief discourse on kensho, offering a disclaimer to those listening, by saying that it is easier to say what kensho isn't then what it is:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/about-kensho-46557679

All I can say is that those who have tasted sugar can identify those who have not tasted sugar by how the latter describe it to the former. When two people who have tasted sugar get together however, they don't really need to say very much at all to recognize each other.

For example, in the Tibetan Dzogchen tradition, it is traditionally kept very secret. Why? Not because of national security, not because it is a trade secret, and not because it is reserved for a special, elite grade of practitioners. Dzogchen has been kept secret, because like Zen, it is not realizable through intellectual analysis--it is experiential from beginning to end. And it is very easy to see in discussions who has some realization of Dzogchen teachings and who doesn't. The problem is that people can deceive others by using words and concepts found in Dzogchen texts, and the same applies to Zen/'Chan, Mahāmudra, etc. They can fool people with lineages, titles, status, certifications, and large retinues.

There is also no guarantee that a person who has tasted sugar is going to be someone we like, someone we can relate to, someone who makes us comfortable and relieves our stress. It's very likely quite the opposite, that person will make us feel very uncomfortable, and we will have a hard time relating to that person. Why? Because the job of such a person is to show us our own state, and just as everyone hates the sound of their own voice, looking at our own state is not comfortable.

Sometimes students feel that when a teacher goes out of the way to make them feel uncomfortable, acts strangely, and so on, this is "crazy wisdom". There are many so-called teachers who hide behind unconventional behavior because they have no realization at all. Its all just Dharma business, and making students feel unbalanced, insecure, and afraid is often the best way to gaslight them.

But a real teacher who is making us feel uncomfortable, out of our zone, does not need to do anything obviously outrageous, all they need to do is keep telling us, "That's not sugar," "Nope, that's not sugar either," until we discover what sugar actually tastes like. Sometimes helping us taste sugar feels very extreme, causes us to have doubts about what we are doing.

Then finally, say someone has satori, kensho, discovers rigpa, identifies the nature of the mind. So what? This is the beginning of the actual path. Now they actually have something to work with other than confusion. Now they have less doubt. But if they do not have a qualified teacher, someone who has actually tasted sugar, then they will never know if they have tasted sugar or instead tasted saccharine or aspartame.  Anyone who has tasted sugar immediately knows that saccharine, aspartame, while both sweet, taste nothing like sugar. But working with such a teacher is a two way street. The teacher has to trust the student, otherwise, they may not feel comfortable if the student is just a kind of dharma junkie, go to this teacher and that teacher, this teacher and tradition, chasing concepts and not gnosis. So in this case the teacher may not open up right away, show their hand as someone who actually has been tasting sugar for some time. See, it is not enough to taste sugar once. One has to make sure. One has to also sample sugar against sugar substitutes so one can make sure.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: "soteriology"
Content:
curtstein said:
When western buddhologists employ the term "soteriology" are they talking about something that Buddhists have historically concerned themselves with? If so, then what term(s) in Chinese, Sanskrit, Pali, or Tibetan have been used by Buddhists to refer to whatever it is that western buddhologists are referring to when they use the term "soteriology"?

The one term that comes to my mind is 度 (dù), which can be translated into English as "save", as in the first of the Four Great Vows and also in the Heart Sutra. But is the Buddhist 度 really referring to the same kind of thing as Christian "salvation"?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no actual soteriology in Buddhadharna since there is not "soter," no saviour.

We can say however there is a mokṣology, since there is liberation and a theory of liberation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 2:03 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:



Aemilius said:
You should also consider the numerous Jatakas and Avadanas. There are many stories in which the Bodhisattva or sometimes a Deva or even a Rishi takes rebirth as a human, or as an animal, as many different kinds of animals. Are these created bodies? In some Jatakas Indra/Sakra appears in a magically created body, like a body  of a beggar or a brahman, like in the Jataka of the Hare on the Moon.

Giovanni said:
These are myths, allegories, metaphors, not descriptions of ontological reality even in the relative sense.

Aemilius said:
Reincarnation or rebirth is an integral part of the Buddhist view of existence, including ordinary  beings and Aryas or Noble ones. The style of these stories may not conform to the modern academic taste, but their essence reflects the reality that has been seen and experienced by the enlightened Masters of the different schools of Buddhist tradition during two and half millennia.

Malcolm wrote:
So you think the Buddha was a talking rabbit in a past life?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 1:52 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


Tao said:
I would love to see Zen and Mahamudra and Dzogchen masters writing or talking  together about that kind of things with the spirit of understand the common grounds. Not trying to make their differences greater. That's something I dont understand.

Malcolm wrote:
You should read Nubchen, Longchenpa, and Jigme Lingpa. They generally reject the criticisms leveled at Chan/Zen by other Tibetan Buddhists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 9:00 PM
Title: Re: A breaking news editor and zen meditation
Content:
palafo said:
Hello all,

I hope some might find this interesting. I am a breaking news editor at The New York Times and wrote an article about my zen practice and what it's like to unplug from an intense job as a breaking news editor at The New York Times to go on retreat. This is a free gift link, so no subscription necessary. I would be interested in and appreciate any comments from the practitioners here.  Bows.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/21/insider/meditation-zen-breaking-news.html?unlocked_article_code=owwdV7VaXEvD7aDEpQnCSa_AFCSZDO3f_r3FZFLxWT-tGhWhmP6Nmbj7CV0vKjDSkgfX3BiYCtvLzE9FSkcvDmdTOoA2wk-OXnON7gSR2my6RvUyr-K9QIdt8fV3oKigPHLw_U2nPQ32BaUSyq9tF9scdfpf2tP3rZQIyxf9R_TX4HE6L-4g-RBrRmlA3gOqbCO9TH78-mf9rZQgO6KaFg4u1ijYoQQiOrVvbRDUWyp80muDyQTY_qXmZfdUu7BEzYD4eSMFungXm34HDUyNyDJdLg6bQth7qKWT9aqYJ0V64hOcRl_Wv0IIIvzTh5eotE_tFuW7vc7RdJWrIG0Un_3Y3sg2rQ&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare


Malcolm wrote:
Are you practicing Zen to feel better about samsara (I.e., as a form of MBSR), or to attain liberation in order to benefit all sentient beings? From your article, it’s not at all clear.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 11:51 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
tingdzin said:
Perhaps we should allow Meido to respond.

Malcolm wrote:
No one’s stopping him.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 11:46 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


clyde said:
Given your first-hand acquaintance with Soto Zen teachers in the Suzuki lineage, perhaps you will share your observations and opinions about SFZC teachers, teachings, etc. Do you agree with Matylda that Soto Zen teachers in America are not realized? And also what was presented about “the cultural adaptation of Zen in the U.S.”

Malcolm wrote:
This assumes Meido has the ability to know who is realized and who isn’t. Frankly, he’d be foolish to assert anyone is realized and just as foolish to answer your question.

clyde said:
If a realized Zen teacher isn’t able to know who is and is not realized, then who is? And how would a Zen student get confirmation? Perhaps we should allow Meido to respond.

Malcolm wrote:
Also, it stands to reason that a realized Zen teacher who can know what other Zen teachers are realized,  they should also be able to know teachers in other traditions who are realized, since one assumes all Mahayana Buddhist realization is basically the same. The same goes for a realized teacher in any Mahayana tradition. The problem is that students are incapable of knowing who is and who is not realized. So it doesn’t matter what anyone says about who is realized. It’s a dumb question.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 11:28 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


clyde said:
Given your first-hand acquaintance with Soto Zen teachers in the Suzuki lineage, perhaps you will share your observations and opinions about SFZC teachers, teachings, etc. Do you agree with Matylda that Soto Zen teachers in America are not realized? And also what was presented about “the cultural adaptation of Zen in the U.S.”

Malcolm wrote:
This assumes Meido has the ability to know who is realized and who isn’t. Frankly, he’d be foolish to assert anyone is realized and just as foolish to answer your question.

clyde said:
If a realized Zen teacher isn’t able to know who is and is not realized, then who is? And how would a Zen student get confirmation? Perhaps we should allow Meido to respond.

Malcolm wrote:
The point is very simple, how does anyone know anyone is realized? There is certainly no way for an ordinary student to tell. This being the case, how are we to know who is a realized Zen master, Lama, etc? It’s not like there is some external sign or verbal indication of realization. This is why lineage is more important than the individual teacher, and that’s true in every authentic Buddhist tradition.

Given the number of Japanese Zen teachers who have proven to be absolute shitshows in America, and who have “confirmed “ their students, not to mention Tibetans, Koreans, and so on, even the safeguard of lineage is questionable.

In reality, one puts away silly romantic ideas about realized teachers, finds a compatible person to study and practice with who at least has a valid lineage, and you follow the Dharma, not the person: the meaning, not the words; definitive texts rather than provisional ones; and gnosis rather than concepts, as the Buddha recommended.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 11:11 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:


clyde said:
Given your first-hand acquaintance with Soto Zen teachers in the Suzuki lineage, perhaps you will share your observations and opinions about SFZC teachers, teachings, etc. Do you agree with Matylda that Soto Zen teachers in America are not realized? And also what was presented about “the cultural adaptation of Zen in the U.S.”

Malcolm wrote:
This assumes Meido has the ability to know who is realized and who isn’t. Frankly, he’d be foolish to assert anyone is realized and just as foolish to answer your question. Merzel told me personally he thought he was  a realized bodhisattva when I asked him directly, during a request to explain the five ranks of Tozan to me, to which he kindly complied. But I mean really? I don’t know if he is realized or not but if I had to bet…and that opens the question of what is “realization.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 8:53 AM
Title: Re: Back in the USA II
Content:
Natan said:
The US is a corporate oligarchy and democracy is a sham.

PadmaVonSamba said:
That is stated as an empirical fact, when really it depends on how many people vote, and for whom.

Natan said:
Both sides of the vote are bought

Malcolm wrote:
Uh huh. That’s why Trump sought so hard to undermine the 2020 election…


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 8:48 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Meido said:
But when you have so-called Zen teachers who deny kensho as the gate, and negate the path itself in favor of what is essentially an intellectual conceit regarding original enlightenment

Malcolm wrote:
Specifically in light of the fact that Dogen categorically rejected the Tendai doctrine of original awakening.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sharf has shown that the New Buddhism was distinct from traditional or classical Zen on multiple levels. He disputes the notion of a “pure experience” that can be uncoupled from its institutional and doctrinal constraints, noting that classical Zen is one of the most scholastic and ritualistic forms of Buddhist monasticism and that enlightenment in Zen is “constituted in elaborately choreographed and eminently public ritual performance.”42 He has also questioned the legitimacy of New Buddhist proponents, pointing out that they were largely laypeople who were not trained in traditional Zen monastic settings. Nonetheless, this modernist vision of Zen was largely embraced by Western scholars and lay practitioners as an historically accurate picture of traditional Zen until recent studies such as Sharf’s illuminated its specifically modernist and nationalist contextual origins.43
Gleig, Ann. American Dharma . Yale University Press. Kindle Edition.

Astus said:
That strongly suggests the worries regarding and the emphasis on authentic awakening within Zen is a modern phenomenon, while those focusing on rituals and scholarly studies are the followers of the pre-modern tradition.

Malcolm wrote:
It strongly suggests that people worried about "authentic awakening," whatever that is supposed to be outside of recognizing the illusory nature of all things and the subsequent recognition that everything is empty, might not really understand the Buddha's message at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: Barbie
Content:



KristenM said:
Please do. I like films that use the medium as allegory, whereas at points this was like listening to a speech and monologues. I think you can get the same points across better by using allegory without literally telling the audience the actual point of the story.

Malcolm wrote:
Now GG should do an evil barbie movie.

KristenM said:
I was thinking a heart wrenching GI Joe movie, with themes of Toxic Masculinity, and a Robert Bly narration.

Malcolm wrote:
Ugg, men's movement. Gross.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 1:04 AM
Title: Re: Back in the USA II
Content:


Natan said:
It's highly speculative nukes deter conventional war.

Malcolm wrote:
They don't. They deter nuclear war. But a power that has them has a power that does not over a barrel. That's why everyone wants them.

Natan said:
I agree, Ukraine has a right to self-defense. Ukraine is not even close to winning and Putin has plenty of offense left in him.

Malcolm wrote:
Putin can continue to destroy his country, that's true. Ukraine has already won. The outcome has already been decided.

Natan said:
US has gone beyond aid and has become an active participant. Totally supplying and training up Ukraine military is just asking for trouble as well as expanding NATO.

Malcolm wrote:
Russia expanded NATO, not the US. Not supplying Ukraine with the weapons they need to fight the Russians will lead to further instability in the region.

Natan said:
Russia is being broadsided all along it's Western borders.

Malcolm wrote:
That's false. When Lithuania, Poland, Estonia, and Latvia were invited into NATO, Russia did not utter a peep.

Natan said:
And all this talk about Russian and Chinese weakness is total propaganda and so far from true.

Malcolm wrote:
Russia has an economy the size of Italy's. A million of their most educated people have fled. They are fielding tanks and weapons built in WWII. This is the real situation in Russia's economy:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-raises-rates-as-ukraine-war-costs-mount-a41bfa23


Natan said:
The US also has incredible endemic problems that constantly have itself teetering on the brink of collapse.and BRICS is expanding and strengthening as well.

Malcolm wrote:
All countries have problems of one kind or another, but in fact the US economy is stronger than it has been in decades.

Natan said:
The US will lose opportunities to build ties with its own neighbors in the Western hemisphere where the US is currently hated and the hate getting worse.

Malcolm wrote:
Mexico has replaced China as the US's largest trade partner:

https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2023/0711#:~:text=Mexico%20became%20the%20top%20U.S.,top%20trading%20spot%20in%202014


Natan said:
There's no win for anyone here.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no win in samsara, period.

Natan said:
It might seem noble to defend democracy but it's not what US is doing. It's interfering in a geopolitical arena with a history it cannot possibly hope to manage and its doing so for every reason that has nothing to do with Democracy, corporate control.

Malcolm wrote:
That's a far-left conspiracy theory, Nate. In any case, Ukraine is NATO's problem as a whole now. The EU wants Ukraine in the EU, and has for years.

The idea that the US is interfering in Ukraine is ludicrous. The US has been trying to shed itself of Ukraine for decades. Just read Christopher Smith's Ukraine's Revolt, Russia's Revenge, or Snyder's Road to Unfreedom.

Natan said:
That the US is a democracy is in question, rates low on the democracy scale. The US is a corporate oligarchy and democracy is a sham.

Malcolm wrote:
US Democracy is certainly flawed, but I don't agree with the isolationists like Kennedy, Trump, and so on:

The overarching conclusion of this book is that the causes of the conflict were deep and remain persistent. Therefore, resolving it will be difficult. When Radoslaw Sikorski criticized “Russia’s 19th century approach” to security in 2013,16 he made an important point: Russia seeks an order based on the dominance of the great powers that was widely accepted in the era prior to World War I. The West rejects this idea, insisting instead on an order based on a combination of democracy and international institutions. That disagreement emerged from the moment that Mikhail Gorbachev was loosening the Soviet Union’s control over central Europe in 1989. Russia’s deployment of force in 2014 can be viewed as a determination to no longer accept the results of a set of rules it did not endorse. Ending the conflict will require, and will likely help shape, a new set of security arrangements in Europe. Until Russia accepts the West’s vision for Europe or the West accepts Russia’s, the conflict will endure, with Ukraine caught in the middle.

D'Anieri, Paul J. . Ukraine and Russia (pp. 276-277). Cambridge University Press. Kindle Edition.

A country with an economy of the size of Italy's has no hope winning against the NATO alliance, the largest economic bloc in the world.

China and India really don't want any part of this war, though they are happy to buy discounted oil from Russia.

Natan said:
And now Trump has a big argument for electing him next year.

Malcolm wrote:
We'll see how well Trump does once he is convicted of the January 6th insurrection. This trial is sure to be held in DC and Jack Smith has the receipts. You've trained in law and dealt with prosecutors. You know quite well that Jack Smith would not bother to issue an indictment against Trump for January 6th unless he was certain he could win. There is too much at stake for Jack Smith to lose.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 24th, 2023 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: Barbie
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I was planning on watching it. I expected it to not just be all fun and poppy, as I can’t see Greta Gerwig doing a fluffy, traditional Barbie thing. I’ll comment once I’ve seen it.

KristenM said:
Please do. I like films that use the medium as allegory, whereas at points this was like listening to a speech and monologues. I think you can get the same points across better by using allegory without literally telling the audience the actual point of the story.

Malcolm wrote:
Now GG should do an evil barbie movie.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 23rd, 2023 at 11:50 PM
Title: Re: Back in the USA II
Content:



Natan said:
Not our war.

Malcolm wrote:
It is our war. We guaranteed Ukraine’s security way back in the early ‘90’s when we convinced them to give up their nukes.

Natan said:
That was denuclearization, the thing the US convinced Russia to do and then backed out of it. All this fomenting has a long history since Bush I. Suddenly Trump comes off as the peacenik by saying he wants to stop the killing. And Biden is now facing a war against China... There is no Buddhist argument for war here. It's playing out like any war. It's spreading like wildfire. US actions are not saving any lives.

Malcolm wrote:
I am not making a Buddhist argument. I am also not making an argument for war. I am making an argument for defense, the defense of Ukraine.

The only reason Putin felt impunity about attacking Ukraine is because they had no nuclear weapons, and he had already frustrated their attempt to join the EU and NATO in 2008 and again in 2013-2014.

Because of Putin's attack on Ukraine, NATO has in the last year admitted two countries that have been historically neutral for decades: Finland and Sweden. Putin has succeeded only in strengthening NATO.

Personally, I support Ukraine %100 percent in their fight against the genocidal ambitions of Putin. Putin is destroying his own country to fight a war he has no hope of winning, whether or not he decides to use nuclear weapons.

As for Taiwan. The PRC just likes to saber rattle. Right now China is in the middle of a huge economic crisis, with 20% unemployment, rampant inflation, etc. They are not going to go to war against Taiwan anytime soon. If they do, they too will lose.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 23rd, 2023 at 9:08 PM
Title: Re: Barbie
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 23rd, 2023 at 11:42 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Yes. Categorically. If they are aware when they are asleep, it isn't deep sleep. Not only that, people can claim anything. But how can one test the claim, "I am continuously aware in a state of deep sleep"?

natusake said:
I thought there were Buddhist practices that had correspondence to this experience, although the view was different.

OdeKirk said:
Mingyur Rinpoche talks about the story of his teacher Saljey Rinpoche being conscious during sleep here:



Perhaps it doesn't count as deep sleep?

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely not deep sleep.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 23rd, 2023 at 9:23 AM
Title: Re: Back in the USA II
Content:
Natan said:
. Putin has been in a defensive posture all along.

Malcolm wrote:
No. Invading Chechnya, Georgia, and Ukraine in 2014-2023, etc., is not defensive.

Natan said:
Biden fomented this.

Malcolm wrote:
Short memory. You seems to have forgotten why Trump was impeached in round 1.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 23rd, 2023 at 9:19 AM
Title: Re: Back in the USA II
Content:
Natan said:
The warmongering has got to stop.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, Putin really needs to stop murdering Ukrainians.

Natan said:
Not our war.

Malcolm wrote:
It is our war. We guaranteed Ukraine’s security way back in the early ‘90’s when we convinced them to give up their nukes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 23rd, 2023 at 9:16 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Further, Dosho Port writes:

When the Meiji Soto reformers first began collaborating with each other to determine what they could identify as the central practice they offered householders (in order both to shore up their congregations and hopefully convert some of those at the gates who were carrying torches), you might be surprised that "shikantaza" did not come up. And it didn't come up as a practice for householders until much later, possibly with Sawaki Roshi (1880-1965).

In the first such efforts to convey what Soto Zen was about, the venerable monks simply highlighted the goal and avoided specifying any method. Significantly, they identified that goal as awakening (“directly pointing to the mind, seeing into one’s nature and becoming Buddha” they said) and did not hesitate to use the words "kensho" and "satori." These had not yet become taboo in the new Soto School.

At that time, some in Soto Zen were enamored with Western Protestant Christianity and set about to reform Soto Zen in its image, in part by centering householders rather than monastics (as had been the case throughout Soto history in China and Japan). It was also at this time that the Soto school's emphasis on kensho and/or satori were dropped because the consensus was that it required an intensity of training that householders (and arsonists) were not up for. It was only much later that the avoidance of the word "kensho" was blamed on Dogen having a personal issue with the word (which he did)…

Rather than a path of vivid practice verification, the PMSO only offers to meet people's belonging needs, a trivialized and truncated dharma belief system, lots of ceremony, and a little zazen. Ironically, today in the West, most Soto practitioners, as well as most Soto teachers, seem to unknowingly embrace what they think is the "Soto Tradition" and "Dogen's Way," when, in fact, what they are embracing is a recently reformulated religion, born in part from the trauma of the "abolish Buddhism, destroy Shakyamuni" campaigns as well as Western colonialism, and repackaged in a wrapping much like what many of them fled - Protestant Christianity.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/73554590


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 23rd, 2023 at 9:04 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
clyde said:
If you look at my original post, I was noting the structural difference between Japanese Soto Shu Zen and American Soto Zen. I didn’t say one was better, only that American Soto Zen may be seen as a distinct tradition. Real? That’s for the students to determine. (I’m not affiliated with any Zen teacher or sangha.)
I’ve heard/read about the “family temple” issue and the Zen-priests-don’t-teach complaint from others, as long as 50 years ago and even from a few Japanese Soto teachers. And that points to an important difference between American Soto Zen and Japanese Soto Zen and it contributes to American Soto Zen being (or at least having the potential to become) its own tradition. Soto Shu’s support is the local “family” (by custom) temples and the priests, as Astus correctly put it, “serve communal needs”; but it is not teaching realization. American Soto Zen doesn’t have local family temples. American Soto Zen is supported by sanghas of persons who are seeking realization and the priests duty is to teach Zen, to teach realization.

Malcolm wrote:
Looks like there is a bit of unconscious white supremacy in your point of view:

"American Soto Zen may be seen as a distinct tradition."

clyde said:
Malcolm, Noting differences between traditions and explicitly declaring that one is not better than the other is not “unconscious” anything.

Malcolm wrote:
You are explicitly declaring that “American Soto,” dominated by white, middle-class people as it is, is a “distinct” tradition. Again:

Cheah extends their work to define “cultural rearticulation” as “a way of representing religious tradition from another’s culture into ideas and practices that are familiar and meaningful to people of one’s own culture.”98 Such a process is inevitable when religions travel across cultural contexts, and examples from Buddhist history include the sinicization of Buddhism in China. By contrast, “racial rearticulation” is “the acquisition of the beliefs and practices of another’s religious tradition and infusing them with new meanings derived from one’s own culture in ways that preserve the prevailing system of racial hegemony.”

clyde said:
Regarding the critique of “the Zen that came to America”, this is nothing new. Dogen wasn’t satisfied with “the Zen that came to Japan” in his time and travelled to China to study. Zen is not bound by time or place. Each time/place and culture developed its own expression and tradition (e.g. - we have no difficulty in noting Korean and Vietnamese traditions as distinct), we should expect America to develop its own traditions.

Malcolm wrote:
Dogen had no imagination that he was creating a distinct “Japanese” tradition, quite the opposite, in fact. Over many centuries, of course, Zen developed its own distinct flavor. But certainly not in the first generation of its transmission.

What you are suggesting is that in one generation “American Soto” has evolved into a “distinct” tradition.  This is a ludicrous assertion. Have some humility.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 23rd, 2023 at 5:05 AM
Title: Re: American Soto Zen
Content:
clyde said:
If you look at my original post, I was noting the structural difference between Japanese Soto Shu Zen and American Soto Zen. I didn’t say one was better, only that American Soto Zen may be seen as a distinct tradition. Real? That’s for the students to determine. (I’m not affiliated with any Zen teacher or sangha.)
I’ve heard/read about the “family temple” issue and the Zen-priests-don’t-teach complaint from others, as long as 50 years ago and even from a few Japanese Soto teachers. And that points to an important difference between American Soto Zen and Japanese Soto Zen and it contributes to American Soto Zen being (or at least having the potential to become) its own tradition. Soto Shu’s support is the local “family” (by custom) temples and the priests, as Astus correctly put it, “serve communal needs”; but it is not teaching realization. American Soto Zen doesn’t have local family temples. American Soto Zen is supported by sanghas of persons who are seeking realization and the priests duty is to teach Zen, to teach realization.

Malcolm wrote:
Looks like there is a bit of unconscious white supremacy in your point of view:

"American Soto Zen may be seen as a distinct tradition."

" Cheah draws from critical race theory to illuminate a legacy of Orientalism and white supremacy from the Western Orientalists of the Victorian era to the contemporary Vipassana movement. Cheah borrows from Lori Pierce to define white supremacy as “the conscious or unconscious promotion and advancement of the beliefs, practices, values and ideals of Euroamerican White culture, especially when those cultural values are represented as normal.”95 As a largely invisible hegemonic discourse, white supremacy operates as a standard of normality in convert lineages. For example, bell hooks has discussed how African Americans feel marginalized in white convert communities, and for some, participating within them “has been synonymous with choosing whiteness.”96 Both Cheah and hooks argue that white supremacy, as an unconscious cultural discourse, has largely shaped Euro-American convert communities. 

Crucial to Cheah’s argument is the distinction made by Michael Omi and Howard Winant between cultural and racial rearticulation.97 Cheah extends their work to define “cultural rearticulation” as “a way of representing religious tradition from another’s culture into ideas and practices that are familiar and meaningful to people of one’s own culture.”98 Such a process is inevitable when religions travel across cultural contexts, and examples from Buddhist history include the sinicization of Buddhism in China. By contrast, “racial rearticulation” is “the acquisition of the beliefs and practices of another’s religious tradition and infusing them with new meanings derived from one’s own culture in ways that preserve the prevailing system of racial hegemony.”

Gleig, Ann. American Dharma . Yale University Press. Kindle Edition.

I think you need to think about this in relation to your dialogue with Matylda. Specifically, she is critiquing the Zen that came to America as a trend that grew out of the Buddhism Modernism period in Japan. She is pointing out, that in her opinion, what passes for Zen in the West, largely has nothing to with actual Zen, by and large.

Robert Sharf offers a close examination of the historical and ideological emergence of New Buddhism, the distinctively Japanese iteration of Buddhist modernism.36 The early years of the Meiji period (1868–1912) witnessed dramatic political and cultural changes and rapid modernization and industrialization. Against this backdrop, Shinto government officials mounted a strong campaign called “abolishing Buddhism” against the Tokugawa Buddhist establishment. They accused Japanese Buddhism of being both antimodern—institutionally corrupt, superstitious, and holding Japan back from scientific advancement—and anti nationalist—a foreign religious import that did not reflect the innate cultural and spiritual sensibilities of the Japanese.37 

In response to the dual challenges of Shinto government opposition and Western discourses of modernity, a group of elite, university-educated Japanese Buddhists fashioned a distinctively modern form of Buddhism. They admitted that Buddhism had become corrupt but attributed this to institutional and cultural accretions that had distorted the pure spiritual core of the tradition. In what came to be known as the New Buddhism, reformers presented a picture of a pure Buddhism that was rational, empirical, and compatible with modern science and social reform...

Sharf points out that the typically cosmopolitan and intellectual proponents of New Buddhism were educated at universities that were highly influenced by modern Western discourses, and he identifies the determinative influence of Romantic critiques of institutional religion and Enlightenment values of universalism, science, and reason.40 He claims, for example, that the framing of Zen as “pure experience” reflected the understanding in the works of Friedrich Schleiermacher, Rudolph Otto, and William James of the core of religion as a sui generis unmediated experience. This Western-influenced reconstruction of Zen as pure spirituality was then presented to unsuspecting Westerners as an historically authentic picture of Zen, which, moreover, was claimed to be superior to Christianity. According to Sharf, therefore, Meiji Buddhist reform figures subversively appropriated key values of Western modernity to form a modern picture of Zen that was used to challenge the religious and cultural hegemony of the West.41 

Sharf has shown that the New Buddhism was distinct from traditional or classical Zen on multiple levels. He disputes the notion of a “pure experience” that can be uncoupled from its institutional and doctrinal constraints, noting that classical Zen is one of the most scholastic and ritualistic forms of Buddhist monasticism and that enlightenment in Zen is “constituted in elaborately choreographed and eminently public ritual performance.”42 He has also questioned the legitimacy of New Buddhist proponents, pointing out that they were largely laypeople who were not trained in traditional Zen monastic settings. Nonetheless, this modernist vision of Zen was largely embraced by Western scholars and lay practitioners as an historically accurate picture of traditional Zen until recent studies such as Sharf’s illuminated its specifically modernist and nationalist contextual origins.43
Gleig, Ann. American Dharma . Yale University Press. Kindle Edition.

This "modern picture of Zen that...used to challenge the religious and cultural hegemony of the West" was imported to the West, and because it was largely informed by Western ideals, "This Western-influenced reconstruction of Zen as pure spirituality was then presented to unsuspecting Westerners as an historically authentic picture of Zen."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 23rd, 2023 at 1:20 AM
Title: Re: Karma and Dependent Origination
Content:


Vajrasvapna said:
For me...the Third Turning is definitive.

Malcolm wrote:
If this is the case, do you accept the true self taught in the Nirvana Sutra literally? If not, how can you say all Third Turning Sutras are definitive? If so, how can you claim to be anything other than an eternalist in Buddhist drag?

Vajrasvapna said:
I think the Yogacara view about emptiness is superior, emptiness is the non-duality of grasper and grasped. Now, the true ultimate can't be simple archived by logic analysis, like in the Madhyamakas schools, but it's the non-verbal ultimate, beyond expression.

Malcolm wrote:
Yogacāra is a realist school. Seen pp 80-82 of Asanga's Bodhisattvabhumi (in Engle, Bodhisattva Path to Unsurpassed Awakening, Shambhala) where Asanga rejects Madhyamaka, claiming that there must be a bare substance underlying all designations, otherwise, one is a nihilist. Do you believe that?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 23rd, 2023 at 12:36 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:



natusake said:
Are you denying the experience of those who claim to have a continuous sense of a 'knower' into deep sleep?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. Categorically. If they are aware when they are asleep, it isn't deep sleep. Not only that, people can claim anything. But how can one test the claim, "I am continuously aware in a state of deep sleep"?

natusake said:
I thought there were Buddhist practices that had correspondence to this experience, although the view was different.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a practice of integrating with luminosity, but that’s quite different than claiming to to be self-aware in a state of deep sleep.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 22nd, 2023 at 8:02 PM
Title: Re: Back in the USA II
Content:
Natan said:
The warmongering has got to stop.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, Putin really needs to stop murdering Ukrainians.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 22nd, 2023 at 10:39 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
natusake said:
Are you denying the experience of those who claim to have a continuous sense of a 'knower' into deep sleep?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. Categorically. If they are aware when they are asleep, it isn't deep sleep. Not only that, people can claim anything. But how can one test the claim, "I am continuously aware in a state of deep sleep"?

PadmaVonSamba said:
experience and awareness of experience are two different things. For example. We experience a moist surface on the eyes, as well as blinking, but we have No awareness of it. And except perhaps where damaged or scarred, we experience every inch of the surface of our skin constantly. Even the backs of our knees and tops of our ears. But we are just so used to these continuous things, these very subtle sensations, that we are simply not aware of them unless for some reason they are interrupted. For example, by touching hot or cold or sharp.
We are experiencing brain activity constantly but we experience it as ideas, thoughts, dreams, and so on. We have no direct awareness of neurons firing. We are only aware of how we interpret those physiological experiences.

Malcolm wrote:
I would argue it is not the case that experience and awareness are phenomenologically distinct. If we are color-blind for example, we cannot experience certain colors. so we are not aware of them. Same goes for certain kinds of deafness.

In deep sleep, our brains switch to delta waves. In this state we are not aware of the outside world nor do we "experience" it. If we are woken from deep sleep, we are generally startled awake. Experience is only conscious, never unconscious.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 22nd, 2023 at 9:47 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:


Bapho said:
Where is awareness? Perhaps, enjoying placidly because the grossest levels of the mind are not working. It is a fact that all living beings experience bliss (Ananda in Sanskrit) in deep sleep,

Malcolm wrote:
Yawn. Boring. Turiya is just an Advaita:imputation,

natusake said:
Are you denying the experience of those who claim to have a continuous sense of a 'knower' into deep sleep?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. Categorically. If they are aware when they are asleep, it isn't deep sleep. Not only that, people can claim anything. But how can one test the claim, "I am continuously aware in a state of deep sleep"?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 22nd, 2023 at 9:44 AM
Title: Re: Zen and the Art of Saving the Planet
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
Zen and the Art of Saving the Planet by Thich Nhat Hanh (2021) is a worthwhile book with some odd aspects.

The general reader is likely to read it "as is", as a book by TNH with commentaries from one of his senior students. As such, it is wise, gentle and positive, as is everything I know by this teacher. He argues that the only way to have a positive effect on the world is to work from a position of universal compassion, and the way to reach that position is mindfulness practice.

Malcolm wrote:
Mindfulness, these days, has been sewn up in a neat neoliberal packaging:

One of the claims made by mindfulness advocates is that the practice in and of itself leads to pro-social conduct, enhancing compassion, altruism and empathy, while reducing aggression and prejudice. This is one of the movement’s central tenets, used to justify the absence of any overt discussion of ethics. It is the basis of the utopian promise that a mindful revolution will usher in a more humane society and even world peace.

Purser, Ronald E. . McMindfulness (p. 122). Watkins Media. Kindle Edition.

Hopefully, what people will understand from this book instead, though I doubt it, is this:

Instead of despairing at the ravages of capitalism, or clinging to myths about its instant destruction, we can be liberated moment to moment by meaningful action. This is powerful because it reverses our dismembering by neoliberalism, which leaves us divided to fend for ourselves in a cutthroat environment, erasing our collective memory in the process. It is hardly surprising that so many feel hopeless, passive, and cynical. We need to re-member — to come back together, to recall what has happened, and to cultivate what Bhikkhu Bodhi calls “conscientious compassion,” awakening new visions: 

A collective voice might emerge that could well set in motion the forces needed to articulate and embody a new paradigm rooted in the intrinsic dignity of the person and the interdependence of all life on Earth. Such collaboration could serve to promote the alternative values that offer sane alternatives to our free-market imperatives of corporatism, exploitation, extraction, consumerism, and toxic economic growth.32

Purser, Ronald E. . McMindfulness (pp. 259-260). Watkins Media. Kindle Edition.

What i think people are going to see is this:

The Davos crowd, already well versed in managing assets, tends to view human behavior in terms of economic motivations. Mindfulness framed as a skill just becomes a new way to invest in human capital. The entrepreneurial self is encouraged to make this wise investment so as to gain a competitive edge as an economic actor. This reduces the self to a “collection of assets that must be continually invested in, nurtured, managed and developed,” warns Wendy Brown in Undoing the Demos, making resistance far less likely.14 It can be hard to see out of the box if the system that builds it is reinforced by mindfulness, suggesting we can thrive if we only let go of awkward questions.

Purser, Ronald E. . McMindfulness (pp. 174-175). Watkins Media. Kindle Edition.



Kim O'Hara said:
Further, that no-one can do it alone and that, to be most effective, we need to form or join  communities consciously working for change. None of this is particularly specific to "saving the planet", and environmental activism as such is hardly mentioned in the middle half of the book.
But if our hypothetical general reader takes it all in and applies it, they will be a better and happier person by the end of it, having painlessly absorbed a solid course of Engaged Zen. And then, we hope, they are ready to go on saving the planet.

Malcolm wrote:
I’m unconvinced that humans will exist in a thousand years without radical changes. It seems foolhardy to assume that watching one’s breath will have any systemic effect on climate change, biodiversity loss, pollution, or mass environmental devastation. As for changing the pluto- cratic control of government, finance, and the media by corporations — or ending unemployment, inequality, homelessness, substance abuse, or white supremacy — it seems almost mean to suggest that paying attention will wave magic wands. 

Ironically, Kabat-Zinn’s ideas about future deliverance distract us from what the present most requires of us: political engagement. As the University of Chicago’s Lauren Berlant notes: “Optimism is cruel when the object/scene that ignites a sense of possibility actually makes it impossible to attain the expansive transformation for which a person or a people risks striving.”5 Dissent is often stifled by fixation on the moment, letting go of “doing,” and thoughts about action. Instead, we are told to retreat to unstable conditions, indulging in what Berlant calls “conventional good-life fantasies.” Mindfulness is all very well as a basic coping device, but as a revolutionary strategy it seems empty, tempting its adherents with the comforting impasse of passivity.

Purser, Ronald E. . McMindfulness (pp. 243-244). Watkins Media. Kindle Edition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 22nd, 2023 at 7:23 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:


Bapho said:
Where is awareness? Perhaps, enjoying placidly because the grossest levels of the mind are not working. It is a fact that all living beings experience bliss (Ananda in Sanskrit) in deep sleep,

Malcolm wrote:
Yawn. Boring. Turiya is just an Advaita:imputation,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 22nd, 2023 at 5:27 AM
Title: Re: Back in the USA II
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You're so dumb, I bet you think this tweet is about you...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 22nd, 2023 at 3:40 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:



Bapho said:
The notion of awareness without am object of awareness that you mention is what is normally experienced in deep sleep or dream without dreams ...

Malcolm wrote:
No, when you are unconscious, for example in deep sleep, you are also unaware.

Bapho said:
You are unconscious from the perspective of the state of vigil or state of dreams, or also from the perpective of an external observer or third person.I think that in reality, from the perspective of the first person, what there is not is "memory". It is very difficult to have memory of a monotonous state of deep darkness where there is neither time nor space ...

Malcolm wrote:
You are just unconscious:

https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/deep-sleep-deep-clean

When one is awake and aware, one's brain is very active.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 21st, 2023 at 10:59 PM
Title: Re: Back in the USA II
Content:


Queequeg said:
Despite all the breathless commentary about Biden, he has done a better job as President than anyone since LBJ in terms of impactful, significant, liberal economic legislation.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, take it from MTG, she is spot on:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 21st, 2023 at 9:45 PM
Title: Re: Back in the USA II
Content:


Miorita said:
Kamala Harris ought to open the door for him to release him as she did nothing, absolutely nothing on her appointment as VP. I have never seen a person do nothing. Now I saw it.

Malcolm wrote:
It is a rare vice president that does anything memorable while in office. Can you remember anything Dan Quail did? How about Al Gore? Richard Nixon under Eisenhower?, and who was LBJ's vice president?

As for Biden, he is one of the most effective presidents we have had in decades. You should look at his legislative accomplishments, not his posture.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 21st, 2023 at 7:41 PM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
Jules 09 said:
It's quite simple:




PadmaVonSamba said:
I’m not disputing that.
I’m referring to the notion of awareness without an object of awareness.

I’m saying that if there’s no object of awareness, you wouldn’t know it.

Bapho said:
The notion of awareness without am object of awareness that you mention is what is normally experienced in deep sleep or dream without dreams ...

Malcolm wrote:
No, when you are unconscious, for example in deep sleep, you are also unaware.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 21st, 2023 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:



Jules 09 said:
Perhaps the point is, that in the context of Dzogchen, awareness is non-referential..

Malcolm wrote:
In the context of English, the term refers to being vigilant:

Middle English aware, from late Old English gewær "watchful, vigilant," from Proto-Germanic *ga-waraz (source also of Old Saxon giwar, Middle Dutch gheware, Old High German giwar, German gewahr), from *ga-, intensive prefix, + *waraz "wary, cautious" (from PIE root *wer- (3) "perceive, watch out for").

This is quite far from the preferable translation of rig pa as "cognizance:"

cognizance (n.)
mid-14c., conisance, "device or mark by which something or someone is known," from Anglo-French conysance "recognition," later, "knowledge," from Old French conoissance "acquaintance, recognition; knowledge, wisdom" (Modern French connaissance), from past participle of conoistre "to know," from Latin cognoscere "to get to know, recognize," from assimilated form of com "together" (see co-) + gnoscere "to know" (from PIE root *gno- "to know").

Meaning "knowledge by observation or notice, understanding, information" is from c. 1400. In law, "the exercise of jurisdiction, the right to try a case" (mid-15c.). Meaning "acknowledgment, admission" is from 1560s. The -g- was restored in English spelling 15c. and has gradually affected the pronunciation, which was always "con-." The old pronunciation lingered longest in legal use.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 21st, 2023 at 1:19 AM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:
yagmort said:
perhaps a silly question, but do Chetsun Nyingthig and Yeshe Lama empowerments differ in terms of time and efforts required for both preparations and event itself on how difficult they are for a teacher giving them ?

Malcolm wrote:
The Chetsun is easier to give. The Yeshe Lama rig pa'i rtsal dbang does not occur until the middle of teaching Yeshe Lama.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 21st, 2023 at 12:57 AM
Title: Re: Questions about Tulkus
Content:


Sādhaka said:
And Malcolm, does this mean that a Bodhisattva would have to be on the Seventh Bhumi; or does it mean that they have to complete the Seventh Bhumi?

Malcolm wrote:
They have to complete the seventh bhumi.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 20th, 2023 at 6:19 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
What better reason to abjure the Tulku system? Why should we entertain the avatar system, which is right out of Hinduism and is basted in a view of self?

kirtu said:
Of course the view is different (some kind of Self/eternalism vs. no-self/beyond the four extremes)

Malcolm wrote:
Really, it is just eternalism in drag.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 20th, 2023 at 5:26 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:


fckw said:
I am not referring to any Tibetan or Sanskrit term/word/concept at all, but to the English word itself as it is being used commonly in English language. That may or may not be aligned with Buddhist concepts.

Malcolm wrote:
"Awareness" is an experience of the state being conscious of an object. For example, "Are you aware that your zipper is down?"

Merriam Webster gives:
the quality or state of being aware : knowledge and understanding that something is happening or exists
So, both a state and an experience.

Bapho said:
You are saying that awareness implies being aware of something (vijñana) but for example in Spanish language

Malcolm wrote:
Are we communicating in Spanish here? If not, I fail to see your point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 20th, 2023 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
What better reason to abjure the Tulku system? Why should we entertain the avatar system, which is right out of Hinduism and is basted in a view of self?

kirtu said:
Of course the view is different (some kind of Self/eternalism vs. no-self/beyond the four extremes) but my point is that the basic concepts already existed in India and furthermore existed from the yogic/siddha side (and unmentioned is that historically Indian Buddhism often took the yogic/siddha practices and then adapted them to Buddhadharma).

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no. It is now well established that hatha yoga was borrowed by HIndus (See Jim Mallinson's research) from Vajrayāna Buddhism, and things like vāyus, nāḍīs, and so on are part of the common Indian medical milieu.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 19th, 2023 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: The Purpose of Thogal Practice (2)
Content:


Bluetara said:
The purpose of Togal is to realise the rainbow body to dissolve the elements that make up the physical body into the elements, pure nature
Togal is superior as it cuts conceptual thought

Malcolm wrote:
You mean there is conceptual thought in trekcho? And more over, aren't the physical elements also dissolved in trekcho?

Bluetara said:
I highly recommend the practice of Togal as...trekcho take a long time

Malcolm wrote:
But doesn't this statement stand in contradiction to the fact that trekcho is described as sudden, whereas thogal is described as gradual?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 19th, 2023 at 9:14 PM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
What better reason to abjure the Tulku system? Why should we entertain the avatar system, which is right out of Hinduism and is basted in a view of self?


kirtu said:
Just to stir the pot some more, I suspect, although I have no solid evidence, that in fact Early Indian Vajrayana did have a notion of tulku's, so identified or identifiable nirmanakayas although the Tibetans extended this by creating lineages.
What we now group together as Hinduism developed the concept of an avatar between the 5-2th BCE - 6 CE:
The concept of avatars was first introduced in the post-Vedic literature, particularly the Bhagavad-Gita of the epic Mahabharata, the Ramayana, and the Puranas.
Thus the basic concept of an avatar, an incarnation to revitalize the teachings, have this long window dating from around the time of the Buddha all the way up to just after the establishment of Indian Buddhist Vajrayana.

So Indian Buddhism had a model available for nirmanakayas more or less from the start.

Secondly some consider that phowa, transference, was actually mentioned in the Yoga Sutras of Pantajali (around 400 CE):

From The Perfection of Desire as the Path (Kāma-Siddhi) Three Early Indian Vajrayāna Treatises, Jadusingh, Laul (the kind of transference mentioned is into the body of a recently deceased person)
[58]Parapurapraveśa: (lit. entrance into another city”). Sometimes, the Yoga of Resurrection in Another Body, literally, Another City (Skt.nagara/pura-praveśa/ Tib. gron ‘jug) is treated as a separate practice; otherwise, it is included within the Yoga of Consciousness Transference, the last among the Six Yogas of Nāropa....This is a practice also described in the Yoga Sutras of Patañjali (Vibhūti Pada, 37). Therein, it is explained that the yogī who knows the course of the network of nerves (nāḍi-sañcara) can project his consciousness into another body and by nagivating the course of the network of consciousness-conveying nerves (chititavāha-nāḍī) in that body, establish his own consciousness therein.
So the concepts themselves arise in what became Hinduism around the time of Buddhist Vajrayana in India historically and predate the transmission of Dharma to Tibet and were just laying around to be used/appropriated.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 17th, 2023 at 11:48 PM
Title: Re: Buddha Nature, Dölpopa's Shentong and Parmenides's Thesis
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
My counterargument is that if the Buddha nature is empty of self-existence, it is conditioned. So not unconditioned as Mipham states.

Malcolm wrote:
That is a non sequitur. The emptiness of uncompounded phenomena is one of the 16 emptinesses described by the Buddha. In fact, compounded phenomena and uncompounded phenomena are mutually dependent. If you affirm one, you automatically affirm the other. That's why Nāgārjuna stated:
If, since arising, abiding, and perishing are not established, the compounded are not established.
Since the compounded have never been established, how will the uncompounded be established?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 17th, 2023 at 11:35 PM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
kirtu said:
Really?  Is there a real difference here though as Buddhist Vajrayana yogis associated with one another in charnel grounds and other places and we clearly have what are effectively clans of siddha style practitioners in India today that claim their traditions stem from the 8th century.

Malcolm wrote:
What we don't find is family lineages in the Tibetan style, modeled on the style of brahmins, like the Khon. There wasn't any need for such family lineages in India because of the central role brahmins played in the ritual life of Indians.

The only such kula lineages I am aware of are Shakti family lineages in Hinduism. I suppose there could have been such buddhist family lineages of tantic practitioner in India, but there is no record of them forming distinct institutions like the Ngakpa families of Tibet.

I am always happy to discover new historical information, but I have not seen any on this subject. what we call the tantric period in Indian history was pretty brief, chaotic, with lots of social upheaval. The insitutional base for Vajrayāna Buddhism was destroyed, and frankly, that last practitioners we know of date to the 17th century. Claims by 21st century Bengalis to 1000 year old tantric lineages ought to be met with some suspicion.  It is a little hard to suss out the Naths-- they might have maintained Cakrasamvara secretly, but there is only anecdotal evidence, nothing hard.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 17th, 2023 at 11:18 PM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
kirtu said:
Why make such a hypothesis?  Tibetans have always claimed that they faithfully copied Indian Buddhism and the scriptural and commentarial literature from Indian Buddhism obviously supports the concept of incarnating nirmanakayas and possibly the notion of their identification.

Malcolm wrote:
What was never the case was recognizing incarnations for the purpose of continuing lineages, which include property, and so on. And there are no accounts of Indians recognizing Indian children for the purpose of bequeathing lineages to them. We don't even find evidence of clans of mantrikas in India, as we do in Tibet.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 17th, 2023 at 5:09 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
Unknown said:
Since the first recognized tulku is said to be Karma Pakshi,

Malcolm wrote:
In fact the first recognized Tulku we know of in Tibet is Tulku Osel, the 12th century reincarnation of Dzeng Josrey, of the Dzogchen Longde lineage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 9:04 PM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:



seeker242 said:
Yes, it’s cruel to allow a pet to be eaten by wild animals when you could easily can prevent it. That’s why it’s  against the law to do it to your own pet. Get a clue.

Malcolm wrote:
No, you are wrong. People let chickens roam free in their yards. No one prosecutes them if those birds are taken by a hawk, etc., or wander into the road, and so on. You really don’t know what you are talking about. You are just having an emotional reaction.

For example, if I had a cat (I own no pets), there is no law preventing me from allowing out day or night without protection when ever I choose. As far as dogs go, the only laws restricting dogs are those which are in place to protect wildlife and livestock from dogs. Now, I agree if you deliberately staked an animal of any kind to be attacked by another animal, human or not, laws against cruelty would apply, but otherwise? No.

seeker242 said:
And allowing chicken to roam free, so they can be subjected to predators and traffic, that’s cruel too. Letting cats outside at night to roam around and kill everything, thats cruel too. Grow up and get a clue.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it’s not cruel at all. It’s how life is. Cruelty is a human judgement, it has nothing to do with reality.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 8:53 PM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The first might be why there is no system of reincarnations anywhere but Tibet?

kirtu said:
As written this is incorrect since there are reincarnations in Mongolia, India (Lahdak, Tawang etc.), Nepal, Bhutan, Sikkim, Kalmykia, etc and now in the West in several countries.  What you meant is that there is no system of recognized reincarnations except in Tibetan Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but since the system started in Tibet proper, it stands as written.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 10:35 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:



seeker242 said:
The idea that this makes it not cruel, is also asinine. Get a clue.

Malcolm wrote:
So, watching a bobcat kill a wild rabbit without interfering isn’t cruel, but watching it kill someone’s pet rabbit is cruel?

seeker242 said:
Yes, it’s cruel to allow a pet to be eaten by wild animals when you could easily can prevent it. That’s why it’s  against the law to do it to your own pet. Get a clue.

Malcolm wrote:
No, you are wrong. People let chickens roam free in their yards. No one prosecutes them if those birds are taken by a hawk, etc., or wander into the road, and so on. You really don’t know what you are talking about. You are just having an emotional reaction.

For example, if I had a cat (I own no pets), there is no law preventing me from allowing it out day or night without protection when ever I choose. As far as dogs go, the only laws restricting dogs are those which are in place to protect wildlife and livestock from dogs. Now, I agree if you deliberately staked an animal of any kind, domestic or wild, to be attacked by another animal, human or not, laws against cruelty would apply, but otherwise? No.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 10:20 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:



seeker242 said:
If you had custody of a pet animal and willingly just allowed it to be eaten by wild animals, when you could have easily prevented it, you would be guilty of the crime of animal cruelty in nearly every, if not every, state in the country of the United States. To say it’s ok to commit the crime of animal cruelty, is blatantly asinine. Grow up…

Malcolm wrote:
Umm, we are not talking about someone who has custody of a given pet, rather a bystander. Thus, there is no fiduciary responsibility. Get a clue.

seeker242 said:
The idea that this makes it not cruel, is also asinine. Get a clue.

Malcolm wrote:
So, watching a bobcat kill a wild rabbit without interfering isn’t cruel, but watching it kill someone’s pet rabbit is cruel? The only difference is whether the rabbit is property or not. There is no inherent value that pets enjoy over wild animals. To insist that this is so is tantamount to claiming human values about the environment based on ownership and property rights is more important than every livings being’s right to survive. This is exactly the thinking that has led to the present environmental crisis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 10:13 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:



seeker242 said:
It’s also asinine to claim, or even suggest, that a pet is an appropriate food for a wild animal.

Malcolm wrote:
Pets get eaten by wild animals every day. Grow up.

seeker242 said:
If you had custody of a pet animal and willingly just allowed it to be eaten by wild animals, when you could have easily prevented it, you would be guilty of the crime of animal cruelty in nearly every, if not every, state in the country of the United States. To say it’s ok to commit the crime of animal cruelty, is blatantly asinine. Grow up…

Malcolm wrote:
Umm, we are not talking about someone who has custody of a given pet, rather a bystander. Thus, there is no fiduciary responsibility. Get a clue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 9:50 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:



seeker242 said:
You are trying to argue that it’s fine to just let a pet be eaten by a wild animal. Sorry friend, that’s asinine.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a question of priorities. I’ll pick the endangered species ( for example, wolves) over a pet (cat, small dog) or a domestic animal, such as sheep or cows, any day.

seeker242 said:
It’s also asinine to claim, or even suggest, that a pet is an appropriate food for a wild animal.

Malcolm wrote:
Pets get eaten by wild animals every day. Grow up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 8:53 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:



seeker242 said:
What is hilarious is people claiming that bringing the rabbit inside is somehow wrong, inappropriate or that you shouldn’t do that. Completely laughable in fact.


Malcolm wrote:
No one said it was wrong, actually. You are just projecting that out of your own neurosis.

seeker242 said:
You are trying to argue that it’s fine to just let a pet be eaten by a wild animal. Sorry friend, that’s asinine.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a question of priorities. I’ll pick the endangered species ( for example, wolves) over a pet (cat, small dog) or a domestic animal, such as sheep or cows, any day.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 6:35 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:



seeker242 said:
It would be ridiculous to feed a neighbors pet spider to a wild animal too. Pets are not food, they’re pets. To claim they are food…is blatantly ridiculous.

Malcolm wrote:
Not interfering is not feeding your neighbor's rabbit to a falcon. Hilariously, you don't seem to know that Peregrin falcons would never take on prey as large as a rabbit. Rabbits fight back.

seeker242 said:
What is hilarious is people claiming that bringing the rabbit inside is somehow wrong, inappropriate or that you shouldn’t do that. Completely laughable in fact.


Malcolm wrote:
No one said it was wrong, actually. You are just projecting that out of your own neurosis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:
seeker242 said:
They asked if they did the right thing calling back a pet rabbit because of a falcon overhead. Yes, they did do the right thing. To claim they shouldn’t do that… is blatantly ridiculous.

Malcolm wrote:
It's like picking between the spider and the fly. It's utterly relative. There is no right or wrong answer here. To conclude there is, is blatantly ridiculous.

seeker242 said:
It would be ridiculous to feed a neighbors pet spider to a wild animal too. Pets are not food, they’re pets. To claim they are food…is blatantly ridiculous.

Malcolm wrote:
Not interfering is not feeding your neighbor's rabbit to a falcon. Hilariously, you don't seem to know that Peregrin falcons would never take on prey as large as a rabbit. Rabbits fight back.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 4:34 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:
seeker242 said:
They asked if they did the right thing calling back a pet rabbit because of a falcon overhead. Yes, they did do the right thing. To claim they shouldn’t do that… is blatantly ridiculous.

Malcolm wrote:
It's like picking between the spider and the fly. It's utterly relative. There is no right or wrong answer here. To conclude there is, is blatantly ridiculous.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 2:10 AM
Title: Re: What do you call this Longchen Nyingtik text that I have? (continued)
Content:
Lingpupa said:
This might be what Malcolm was thinking of when he commented "It is", but such a bald answer is hard to investigate any further.[/list]

Malcolm wrote:
This is the text in the Khros ma sgrub skor

1 ff. (pp. 737-738) (v. 2, img. 281-282) of bdr:W1KG9609
Title: dag snang ye shes dra ba las: sngon 'gro'i ngag 'don shin tu bsdus pa

You will see it is the same text here, starting on page 15:

https://dudjomtersarngondro.com/download/texts/free-text-downloads/dudjom-tersar-ngondro-practice-texts/

This is commentary on the same text in Dudjom RInpoche's collected works:

2 ff. (pp. 419-422) (v. 13, img. 423-426) of bdr:W20869
Title:
dag snang sngon 'gro'i ngag 'don bsdus pa'i dmigs zin mdor bsdus


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 1:14 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:



seeker242 said:
Which is precisely why they should be kept indoors.

A rabbit hopping around in the backyard for a hour or two?, yea... no...


Malcolm wrote:
Keeping cats and dogs indoors is cruel and unhealthy. Same goes for chickens, ducks, geese, horses, ponies, and so on. And you really can't protect your pet fowl and rabbits from predation by foxes, racoons, falcons, etc., unless you cage them, which is also cruel and unhealthy.

seeker242 said:
Letting cats and dogs, or other similar domesticated animals, roam the wild is more cruel and more unhealthy.

Malcolm wrote:
You’ve clearly never lived in the country, dogs and cats love being outside without supervision, chasing squirrels and hunting mice. Just like one cannot protect children from every risk, one cannot protect pets from every risk. It makes for unhealthy, neurotic pets.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 9:54 PM
Title: Re: Questions for Ācārya Malcolm Smith
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
If rigpa is not a reality in any sense of the term, such as an unconditioned reality, wouldn't enlightenment be a definitive state and liberation be impossible?

Malcolm wrote:
Can you rephrase the question?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 9:44 PM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:
seeker242 said:
In reality, pets are not supposed to be part of the ecosystem to begin with.



Malcolm wrote:
Pets have very detrimental impact on the environment, actually.

seeker242 said:
Which is precisely why they should be kept indoors.

A rabbit hopping around in the backyard for a hour or two?, yea... no...


Malcolm wrote:
Keeping cats and dogs indoors is cruel and unhealthy. Same goes for chickens, ducks, geese, horses, ponies, and so on. And you really can't protect your pet fowl and rabbits from predation by foxes, racoons, falcons, etc., unless you cage them, which is also cruel and unhealthy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 9:37 PM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:
seeker242 said:
In reality, pets are not supposed to be part of the ecosystem to begin with.



Malcolm wrote:
Pets have very detrimental impact on the environment, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 9:31 PM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
What Tibetan term do you intend by awareness? RIg pa? If so, you are incorrect.

fckw said:
I am not referring to any Tibetan or Sanskrit term/word/concept at all, but to the English word itself as it is being used commonly in English language. That may or may not be aligned with Buddhist concepts.

Malcolm wrote:
"Awareness" is an experience of the state being conscious of an object. For example, "Are you aware that your zipper is down?"

Merriam Webster gives:
the quality or state of being aware : knowledge and understanding that something is happening or exists
So, both a state and an experience.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 8:34 PM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
I am researching the topic, and I even picked up some books, but it will take some time to study everything. A non-pathological dissociative state is merely the beginning of the Awareness experience, where a person starts to perceive everything as illusory.

fckw said:
Just to get a few points right:

1. Awareness is not a state.
2. Awareness is not an experience.
3. Seeing everything as illusory may either be seen as part of a dissociative state or as a specific meditation instruction. Both are not equal at all. For example, the latter requires that you have set up the correct view first, without which the meditation instruction makes no sense at all.

It seems you are really confusing lots of concepts here. You can experience as many states as you like, awareness is at the bottom of all of them.

Malcolm wrote:
What Tibetan term do you intend by awareness? RIg pa? If so, you are incorrect.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 8:30 PM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
I answered about the experience, not about the science behind it. But I think they call it the Rainbow Body for some reason.


fckw said:
In my understanding, this picture does not properly depict rainbow body, but a lower realization. However, I could not find anyone ever providing a proper explanation, so I could be wrong. It seems either most practitioners never get to the realization shown on the picture, or they don't speak about it.

Malcolm wrote:
This picture is intended to show the body of great transference. But is just art, someones concept. According to Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, this imagery comes from the Sakyas school.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 8:27 PM
Title: Re: It must be a wonder to have a Buddhist relationship.
Content:
Karma Dorje said:
It’s largely trauma that causes people to seek an answer outside of their native religious tradition(s) in my experience.

Malcolm wrote:
Studies have shown that it is there is correlation between weak/absent fathers and conversion.

Kim O'Hara said:
Correlation does not equal causation.
I'm sure there is also a correlation between trauma and weak/absent fathers, for instance, so Karma Dorje's point may be just as valid as your studies.


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
It wasn't posted as a contradiction.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 8:24 PM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:
seeker242 said:
Same goes for a pet…

Malcolm wrote:
If it were one's own pet. That value does not necessarily translate to the pets of others.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 10:16 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:


Shaiksha said:
Assume your statement is correct that the entire tulku system is corrupt, this begs the question - why such precious teachings entrusted to a corrupt system (by the boddhisattvas, etc)? Why do they say the blessing of the lineage (e.g. there surely is no blessing coming out of a "corrupt system"? Is this also a political statement? What makes Vajrayana work then? Not the "lineage blessings" and devotion/faith?

Malcolm wrote:
There are a lot of assumptions in your statement that you might want to reflect upon. The first might be why there is no system of reincarnations anywhere but Tibet?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 3:28 AM
Title: Re: It must be a wonder to have a Buddhist relationship.
Content:
Knotty Veneer said:
Yeah let's not fall into the same trap as the Abrahamic (and some other) religions by insisting of marriage within the faith.

Let people love who they love and marry who they want to.

Malcolm wrote:
Frankly, that might work for people who not in Vajrayāna. It does not work to well for Vajrayāna people, based on personal experience and my observations of others. And honestly, most of the Buddhists I know who are in relationships with non-Buddhists always feel there is something missing.

Knotty Veneer said:
Might be the case for your version of vajrayana, perhaps.

I had a wonderful relationship with my late wife a Jew who didn't want to be a Buddhist but was totally supportive. I think sharing values is more important than what religious organization you sign up to.

Malcolm wrote:
I couldn’t be in relationship with a conservative. I also have found that even relationships with nonBuddhists with whom I share all other values mutually unworkable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 2:20 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:



seeker242 said:
Or, someone who loves being ridiculous.

Malcolm wrote:
You also clearly never grew up anywhere near a farm.

And how can a vegan own pets? I though you all were into animal suffrage.

Frankly, if you feed cats meat, which you apparently do, you might as well eat it yourself.

seeker242 said:
Rabbits are vegetarians in case you hadn’t noticed… Clearly you never read a book in biology? It’s ridiculous to assert that a pet is an appropriate food for a wild animal. It’s beyond asinine, far beyond. Just as ridiculous as suggesting that a person is an appropriate food for a wild animal. My dog is a vegetarian and it’s certainly ridiculous, beyond ridiculous, to say that he is an appropriate food for a wild animal. It’s so ridiculous that it should not even need to be said….

Malcolm wrote:
I said cats, because earlier you mentioned catfood:

https://www.petmd.com/cat/nutrition/can-cats-be-vegan-or-vegetarian #


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 2:03 AM
Title: Re: Emptiness as an ultimate truth vs. as a concealer truth
Content:



SilenceMonkey said:
Do they see objects as external to the perceiving mind, or merely an appearance of the mind (as in Cittamatra)? I’m asking in terms of perception of relative truth, not in terms of Shunyata.

Malcolm wrote:
Non-gelug madhyamakas accept outer objects conventionally, but define relative and ultimate truth as incorrect or correct perceptions of those objects.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 1:22 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:



seeker242 said:
Definitely pick the pet of the little girl next door. Or, you can go tell he that her pet is dead "Because falcons have to eat too you know". Sounds like something a psychopath would say.

Malcolm wrote:
Or a realist.


seeker242 said:
Or, someone who loves being ridiculous.

Malcolm wrote:
You also clearly never grew up anywhere near a farm.

And how can a vegan own pets? I though you all were into animal suffrage.

Frankly, if you feed cats meat, which you apparently do, you might as well eat it yourself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 1:17 AM
Title: Re: It must be a wonder to have a Buddhist relationship.
Content:
Knotty Veneer said:
Yeah let's not fall into the same trap as the Abrahamic (and some other) religions by insisting of marriage within the faith.

Let people love who they love and marry who they want to.

Malcolm wrote:
Frankly, that might work for people who not in Vajrayāna. It does not work to well for Vajrayāna people, based on personal experience and my observations of others. And honestly, most of the Buddhists I know who are in relationships with non-Buddhists always feel there is something missing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 12:56 AM
Title: Re: It must be a wonder to have a Buddhist relationship.
Content:
Karma Dorje said:
It’s largely trauma that causes people to seek an answer outside of their native religious tradition(s) in my experience.

Malcolm wrote:
Studies have shown that it is there is correlation between weak/absent fathers and conversion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 12:52 AM
Title: Re: Emptiness as an ultimate truth vs. as a concealer truth
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
I’m not sure I follow… I understand the first sentence to mean that relative truth is any object perceived by an ignorant perceiver/awareness. So wouldn’t the emphasis be equally on both subject and object?

Malcolm wrote:
Because a truth is a perception, which is either veridical or not. In Candrakīrit, all objects are defined as having two natures: one the object of a veridical perception, one the object of a nonveridical perception. The Geluks generally define the objects of these two perceptions as isolates in the object. Non-Gelug madhyamakas however do not take the idea that objects have two natures literally, merely that objects can be seen correct or incorrectly. In other words, satyas are perceptions of objects, they do not exist in the objects themselves.


SilenceMonkey said:
Does this suggest the original meaning of “relative truth” has more to do with linguistic convention than other connotations?

Malcolm wrote:
Absolutely.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:


seeker242 said:
And the example actually being discussed here is a pet rabbit and a bird. It's blatantly obvious that it's appropriate to help the rabbit. Just like it would be appropriate to help a person. Whether or not people help in such situations, because of bystander effect, etc. is not relevant to the point that was being made. It completely misses the point really.

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely pick the falcon. Rabbits are a dime a dozen. Falcons are more important over all to the ecosystem.

seeker242 said:
Definitely pick the pet of the little girl next door. Or, you can go tell he that her pet is dead "Because falcons have to eat too you know". Sounds like something a psychopath would say.

Malcolm wrote:
Or a realist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 11:48 PM
Title: Re: Should I save the rabbit or the falcon?
Content:


seeker242 said:
And the example actually being discussed here is a pet rabbit and a bird. It's blatantly obvious that it's appropriate to help the rabbit. Just like it would be appropriate to help a person. Whether or not people help in such situations, because of bystander effect, etc. is not relevant to the point that was being made. It completely misses the point really.

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely pick the falcon. Rabbits are a dime a dozen. Falcons are more important over all to the ecosystem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 10:55 PM
Title: Re: Emptiness as an ultimate truth vs. as a concealer truth
Content:
wei wu wei said:
Have others worked through this before and what have you come up with?

Malcolm wrote:
The Gelulpas err in placing the emphasis on the object rather than the subject.

SilenceMonkey said:
For Gelukpas, is "self" only an object and not a subject?

Malcolm wrote:
In the definition of a truth, they place emphasis on the object, so for them, a relative truth is the object of non-veridical cognition. In general, they place emphasis on the object status, not on the whether the cognition itself is true or false.

As far as "concealer" goes, it is a sort of bad etymology from the translation of vernacular texts into Sanskrit at an early period. In PalI:

Sammuti Sammuti (f.) [fr. saŋ+man] 1. consent, permission Vin iii.199. — 2. choice, selection, delegation Vin iii.159. — 3. fixing, determination (of boundary) Vin i.106. — 4. common consent, general opinion, convention, that which is generally accepted; as ˚- conventional, e. g. ˚sacca conventional truth (as opposed to paramattha˚ the absolute truth) Miln 160; ˚ñāṇa common knowledge D iii.226; ˚deva what is called a deva J i.132; DA i.174; see under deva; ˚maraṇa what is commonly called "death" Vism 229. — sammuccā (instr.) by convention or common consent Sn 648 (v. l. sammacca=ger. of sammannati). — 5. opinion, doctrine Sn 897 (=dvāsaṭṭhī diṭṭhigatāni Nd1 308), 904, 911. — 6. definition, declaration, statement Vin i.123 (ummattaka˚); A iv.347 (vādaka˚); VbhA 164 (bhuñjaka˚). — 7. a popular expression, a mere name or word Miln 28. — 8. tradition, lore; combd with suti at Miln 3.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:
drodul said:
Malcolm, the mice in your house came from somewhere, and, unless they arrived by car, that somewhere was outside.

Giovanni said:
(
House Mice ( Mus Musculus) and Field Mice ( Apodemus Sylvaticus) are very seperate species and very easy to tell apart. Both are found all over the world. Mus Musculus are grey/brown with small rounded ears. Aspodemus Sylvaticus are reddish brown with large shell shaped ears. House mice have evolved to live in close proximity to human beings. They do not live away from buildings or other human structures. Field Mice live outside..they will come in to buildings to forage food but they return outside. They do not live indoors.


Malcolm wrote:
I keep trying to explain this, but they won't listen because they have never lived in the country and so do not know the difference.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: Emptiness as an ultimate truth vs. as a concealer truth
Content:
wei wu wei said:
Have others worked through this before and what have you come up with?

Malcolm wrote:
The Gelulpas err in placing the emphasis on the object rather than the subject.

In any case, relative and ultimate truth in the context of the path of seeing, according to Kashmiri Dharmaśrī, are:


The dharma knowledge of the path of seeing is understanding the relative to be like an illusion; the subsequent knowledge is knowing the ultimate to be free of proliferation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 9:37 PM
Title: Re: What do you call this Longchen Nyingtik text that I have?
Content:


Lingpupa said:
I'll begin by confessing that I get confused by the plethora of Dudjom-related ngondros, so this question really is a question, but - are you sure about that Stone? That "concise Dudjom ngondro is from the Throma cycle of Dudjom Lingpa..."?

Malcolm wrote:
It is.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 10:59 AM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:
drodul said:
Malcolm, the mice in your house came from somewhere, and, unless they arrived by car, that somewhere was outside.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no, it’s an old country house and they’ve been living in the walls and attic for the past 230 years.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 2:33 AM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:




seeker242 said:
Yeah, it’s way better to just kill the animal yourself.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s the same, more or less. Sending something off to a certain death is the same as killing it yourself.

seeker242 said:
Yes, you did say that putting a rat in the forest is "Sending something off to a certain death", which of course it isn't...

Malcolm wrote:
No, you just thought I was talking about rats. I wasn't.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 2:14 AM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:



seeker242 said:
Regardless of where anyone lives, it''s still unreasonable that anyone can claim to know, for sure,  what will happen in the future. So you really have no idea either.

Malcolm wrote:
As someone who has taken many a mouse to their death in the nearby forest about three miles away, I'll take my direct perception and inference over your speculation any day.

seeker242 said:
The fact that the word certain means knowing for sure, it not a speculation, it's written right in the dictionary. In short, the only one speculating is you. The idea that a rat will certainly be eaten by an owl, is noting more than a speculation, which is by definition not a certainty.


Malcolm wrote:
I didn't say rats would be eaten by owls, though of course they would be prey for owls too, but rats, like cats, are bigger and likely to put up more of a fight.

But mice, definitely. I've seen it happen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:



seeker242 said:
You’re right, I clearly don’t try to redefine what the words in the dictionary mean. I tend go by what it actually says.

“Known for sure, beyond any doubt”

An inference does not mean that…

Malcolm wrote:
And you don't live in the country, so you really have no idea.

seeker242 said:
Regardless of where anyone lives, it''s still unreasonable that anyone can claim to know, for sure,  what will happen in the future. So you really have no idea either.

Malcolm wrote:
As someone who has taken many a house mouse to their death in the nearby forest about three miles away, I'll take my direct perception and inference over your speculation any day.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 1:17 AM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:



seeker242 said:
Releasing a rat in the forest does not mean they will certainly move into somebody else’s house and there’s plenty of food in the forest. The idea that it will certainly be eaten by an owl defies the very definition of what the word certain means. As I said before, the only way you can know that for certain…is to have a crystal ball…

Malcolm wrote:
It seems you only accept direct perception as a valid source of knowledge, but there is also inference.

Clearly, you don't live in the country.

seeker242 said:
You’re right, I clearly don’t try to redefine what the words in the dictionary mean. I tend go by what it actually says.

“Known for sure, beyond any doubt”

An inference does not mean that…

Malcolm wrote:
And you don't live in the country, so you really have no idea.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 1:03 AM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:



seeker242 said:
You claimed that releasing a rodent that is caught in a house is certain death. You are certain that every rodent in every house is a house mouse? That’s not even close to being reasonable. In short, you’re not certain.

Malcolm wrote:
I didn't claim any such a thing.

When you release rats, you are just passing the buck. They will certainly move into someone's else's house. They go where the food is.

Mice, well, field mice and house mice are not the same. And I am quite certain about house mice. If you release them into the wild, they will be eaten by birds, squirrels, snakes, etc.

seeker242 said:
Releasing a rat in the forest does not mean they will certainly move into somebody else’s house and there’s plenty of food in the forest. The idea that it will certainly be eaten by an owl defies the very definition of what the word certain means. As I said before, the only way you can know that for certain…is to have a crystal ball…

Malcolm wrote:
It seems you only accept direct perception as a valid source of knowledge, but there is also inference.

Clearly, you don't live in the country.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
But the system was and is corrupt. Tulkus also tend to be less well-educated than other kinds of lamas, because they are used more for their role in fund-raising, which means they have to spend more time doing rituals than studying dharma. Several of my teachers were tulkus. and they, generally, were universal in their observation that the tulku system was corrupt.

Shaiksha said:
I feel that this is a bit of an exaggeration.

Malcolm wrote:
It's not.

Many realized masters came out of the tulku system. Starting from the most recent: Gyatrul Rinpoche, Dudjom Rinpoche, the 16th Karmapa … going all the way back to the early tulku system, the list is too long.

There have some tulkus who practiced and attained realization. but being recognized a tulku by itself is not a guarantor that the person is realized. And below the seventh bhumi bodhisattvas completely lose all memory of their realization, and so have to start all over again at the beginning in every life time.

And at least one famous tulku, the 5th Dalai Lama, wrote in his autobiography that he failed the tulku exam. Despite this, the regent claimed he passed. So, I remain completely skeptical. It's a corrupt system and has been forever.

Shaiksha said:
Sure, there were some average tulkus and some corrupt practices – but to take them and then conclude that the whole system is corrupt – is it not an exaggeration?

Malcolm wrote:
You can have some honest brokers in an entirely corrupt system.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 11:59 PM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:



seeker242 said:
Do you think that wild mice can never get into a house? What makes you think that? That doesn’t make any sense.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, I can tell you from long experience, house mice live in houses, they build nests, etc. When you remove them, they don't survive. When you remove mothers, you are condemning all the little mice babies to starvation, etc.

House mice and field mice are not the same animals.

In short, there is no harm-free solution to "pest" management.

seeker242 said:
You claimed that releasing a rodent that is caught in a house is certain death. You are certain that every rodent in every house is a house mouse? That’s not even close to being reasonable. In short, you’re not certain.

Malcolm wrote:
I didn't claim any such a thing.

When you release rats, you are just passing the buck. They will certainly move into someone's else's house. They go where the food is.

Mice, well, field mice and house mice are not the same. And I am quite certain about house mice. If you release them into the wild, they will be eaten by birds, squirrels, snakes, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 11:28 PM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:



seeker242 said:
I would love to know where to get this crystal ball


Malcolm wrote:
Just look up what happens to house mice when you release them in a forest. They don't survive the experience.

seeker242 said:
Do you think that wild mice can never get into a house? What makes you think that? That doesn’t make any sense.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, I can tell you from long experience, house mice live in houses, they build nests, etc. When you remove them, they don't survive. When you remove mothers, you are condemning all the little mice babies to starvation, etc.

House mice and field mice are not the same animals.

In short, there is no harm-free solution to "pest" management.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:
Sādhaka said:
and the Earth would not be saturated with synthetic pesticides.

Malcolm wrote:
Organic pesticides also contain environmental risks.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 11:06 PM
Title: Re: the great vegetarian debate
Content:


Sādhaka said:
No eating ze bugs,


Genjo Conan said:
It's basically only Western cultures where entomophagy isn't traditionally popular.

Tacos de chapulines are delicious.


Sādhaka said:
I’m not necessarily above trying out insects

Malcolm wrote:
It's better to eat processed insects, ala pasture raise eggs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
Shaiksha said:
Sure, the Tulku system is political and flawed. What you cannot deny is that the Tibetan Buddhism was thriving with the system.

Malcolm wrote:
Corrupt systems often seem to be thriving from a worldly point of view. The reason why the tulku system flourished is because laypepeople in Eastern Tibet, in particular (where most tulkus are from) refuse to sponsor monasteries without them. This system continued in India, where, in modern times, there are far more tulkus then there ever where in Tibet.

Shaiksha said:
This is in contrast with the Tibetan Buddhism where they keep reinvigorating and innovating through the terma tradition (among others).

Malcolm wrote:
There is almost no innovation at all in the terma system. In fact, termas, as examples of literature, have grown more homogenous and less "creative" over the centuries, when for example one compares modern termas with the Seventeen Tantras, etc.

Shaiksha said:
I think the Tulku system played a vital role.


Malcolm wrote:
In terms of controlling the aristocracy, sure. The best thing one can say about the tulku system is that it provided a ready made elite from various walks of life. The family of a tulku, especially an important tulku, would immediately experience a rise in social elevation. But the system was and is corrupt. Tulkus also tend to be less well-educated than other kinds of lamas, because they are used more for their role in fund-raising, which means they have to spend more time doing rituals than studying dharma. Several of my teachers were tulkus. and they, generally, were universal in their observation that the tulku system was corrupt.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 10:52 PM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:



seeker242 said:
Certain death, yeah, you could say that if you had a crystal ball that could see the future.

Malcolm wrote:
For example, house mice cannot survive if you trap them and let them go. That’s a death sentence.

seeker242 said:
I would love to know where to get this crystal ball


Malcolm wrote:
Just look up what happens to house mice when you release them in a forest. They don't survive the experience.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 7:22 PM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:




seeker242 said:
Yeah, it’s way better to just kill the animal yourself.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s the same, more or less. Sending something off to a certain death is the same as killing it yourself.

seeker242 said:
Certain death, yeah, you could say that if you had a crystal ball that could see the future.

Malcolm wrote:
For example, house mice cannot survive if you trap them and let them go. That’s a death sentence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 6:38 PM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:
seeker242 said:
Nothing wrong with passing the buck into a forest.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, owls have to get fed some how.


seeker242 said:
Yeah, it’s way better to just kill the animal yourself.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s the same, more or less. Sending something off to a certain death is the same as killing it yourself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 11:39 AM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:
seeker242 said:
Nothing wrong with passing the buck into a forest.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, owls have to get fed some how.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 4:36 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
"Dissociation is a mental process of disconnecting from one's thoughts, feelings, memories or sense of identity. The dissociative disorders that need professional treatment include dissociative amnesia, depersonalisation disorder and dissociative identity disorder."
https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/dissociation-and-dissociative-disorders

I have been researching neuroscience and dissociation. Would the state of awareness, from a neuroscience perspective, be similar to the state of dissociation? Although similar, it doesn't mean they are the same, as the doctrine of dependent origination prevents a person from disconnecting from convential reality.


Indra's Bow said:
On that, there is this passage found within the Upa Tantras:


"If [the yogin] recites in the night, he will be pure and have no hindrance. That drug will change and will emit circular light and will be bright in the midnight or at sunrise. If the mantrayanist takes the drug, he will wander in space. He will have longevity and great prestige. He will be free in life and death. He will go to the summit of the world and will manifest various forms. The meritorious and auspicious man will offer to one Buddha after another. Many things are produced by the mantra. Such is called siddhi (accomplishment) non-discrimination (siddhi in non-form) - all will be accomplished by the discriminated drugs".

- Mahavairocana's Supreme Enlightenment Sutra, the Blessing-Empowerment of Miraculous Transformation (Abhisambodhi Vikurvita Adhishthana), chapter 6, page 76 Chikyo Yamamoto version translated from the Chinese, Aditya Prakashan, 1990.

These verses and their visionary, hallucinatory nature really speak for themselves, exactly the kind of thing you are getting at.

Malcolm wrote:
Nope, this passage has nothing to do with drugs.

This translation is also not well done and has long been superseded. Best to consult Hodges' translation on this, pg. 178-179, whose translation depends on both Chinese and Tibetan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:
Giovanni said:
We had rats in the Dharma Center Shrine room.

Malcolm wrote:
Gross.

Giovanni said:
PETA and some other places sell humane traps where you can catch them alive and release them some place, preferably far away.

Malcolm wrote:
Passing the buck.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 13th, 2023 at 12:35 AM
Title: Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen
Content:
Fa Dao said:
Malcolm, are you allowed to say what cycles?

Malcolm wrote:
In general, most cycles of Drollo Teachings. Adzom Drukpa's in particular.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 12th, 2023 at 11:08 PM
Title: Re: Buddha Nature, Dölpopa's Shentong and Parmenides's Thesis
Content:
Sādhaka said:
views of Sutra such as Madhyamaka were inferior to that of Tantra….”

Malcolm wrote:
Ok. This is a common view of Sakya and Nyingma prior to Sakya Pandita.

Longchenpa, and others, including ChNN, however assert that the view of Prasangika and Dzogchen are absolutely compatible, analytically speaking.

The point being made is that what Rongzom is criticizing is some Madhyamakas clinging to relative truth. He explains this at length in Intro to Mahāyāna systems.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 12th, 2023 at 10:06 PM
Title: Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen
Content:
Fa Dao said:
How/why/and in what way is Dorje Drolo connected to Dzogchen? I have heard a few Masters mention this but didn't go into any real detail

Malcolm wrote:
There are specific instructions in some Dorje Drollo cycles connected with Dzogchen teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 12th, 2023 at 9:26 PM
Title: Re: Had to fumigate at home. Roaches. Don't feel good about that
Content:



redmondbarry said:
However, don't feel very good about it, just thinking if I should have been more patient and trying another alternatives (sealing, exhausting cleaning, etcétera) before fumigating. I was worried as I read about how fast they multiply and diseases that they might spread.

Malcolm wrote:
We do what we have to do. I kill deer ticks with no hesitation because they spread Lyme disease. I feel very sorry for them, but I hope they have a better rebirth. There is no fault, from a Mahāyāna point of view, of killing beings whose unfortunate karma is to be spreaders of disease and ill-health.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 12th, 2023 at 7:56 PM
Title: Re: Buddha Nature, Dölpopa's Shentong and Parmenides's Thesis
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Then again, it’s possible that Rongzompa didn’t say that “…views of Sutra such as Madhyamaka were inferior to that of Tantra”; but just that he had critiqued a specific interpretation of Madhyamaka.

I’m just taking it on faith that the above statement is in the said book translated by Heidi Koppl, and that she did not mistranslate what he originally wrote.

Malcolm wrote:
She didn't, and when Rongzom was alive Candrakīrti was just being translated into Tibetan, and had yet to exercise the impact the latter had on Tibetan scholars. However, in the opinion of later Nyingma scholars, Rongzom would not have rejected Candrakīrti's madhyamaka. The Madhyamaka he was rejecting is very similar to Tsongkhapa's formulation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 12th, 2023 at 11:05 AM
Title: Re: Buddha Nature, Dölpopa's Shentong and Parmenides's Thesis
Content:
Karma Dorje said:
A Shentong view is useful at the time of practicing vajrayana sadhana. In fact, I can’t see how one could hold an exclusive rangtong view at the time of vajrayana practice.


Sādhaka said:
Well Malcolm said the following about Yogacāra:


Malcolm wrote:
It is adopted conventionally in Vajrayāna due to its simplicity, not because it can withstand analysis.


Sādhaka said:
And even then, Vajrayāna does not depend on any Sutrayana view. Not on Yogacara, not on “shentong” or “rangtong”, or even on actual Madhyamaka; according to Rongzompa.

“Rongzom held that the views of Sutra such as Madhyamaka were inferior to that of Tantra…”

I believe that this^ is stated in Establishing Appearances as Divine: Rongzom Chokyi Zangpo on Reasoning, Madhyamaka, and Purity translated by Heidi Koppl

Malcolm wrote:
It was clarified by a later master that the Madhyamaka Ringzom was critiquing was pre-Candrakirti.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 12th, 2023 at 5:25 AM
Title: Re: Sakya Trichen Vajrasattva variation
Content:
Toenail said:
I heard him recently do the mantra with the anurakta part between the Sutto/suppo part. Never heard that before. What is it about?

Malcolm wrote:
Its the mother tantra version which comes from the Cakrasamvara Tangtras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 12th, 2023 at 3:54 AM
Title: Re: Buddha Nature, Dölpopa's Shentong and Parmenides's Thesis
Content:


Karma Dorje said:
A Shentong view is useful at the time of practicing vajrayana sadhana. In fact, I can’t see how one could hold an exclusive rangtong view at the time of vajrayana practice.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no such a thing as a "rang stong" view, other than in febrile imagination of committed gzhan stong pas.

But I really don't have any need to press this point further. My point is rather simple: when it comes to madhyamaka tenets, Mipham was a prasangika. So was Longchenpa, explicitly so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 11th, 2023 at 9:58 PM
Title: Re: Buddha Nature, Dölpopa's Shentong and Parmenides's Thesis
Content:


Karma Dorje said:
Why assume a correct final view

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not an assumption.

Karma Dorje said:
Of course it’s an assumption. Mipham is not here to answer for himself

Malcolm wrote:
The nice thing about Mipham is that he tells us his own personal view about which Madhyamaka presentation he considers definitive in his commentary on Shantarakshita’s Ornament of Madhyamaka, which is one of his more mature works. He wrote Lion’s Roar in his twenties.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 11th, 2023 at 8:15 PM
Title: Re: Misbehavior within Tibetan communities
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
Does parajika of one monk in the community also make it impossible for the other monks to restore their vows during sojong?

I’m wondering what effect something like this might have on the Gompa: monastics, abbot, lama, etc…

Malcolm wrote:
No.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 11th, 2023 at 6:45 AM
Title: Re: Buddha Nature, Dölpopa's Shentong and Parmenides's Thesis
Content:


Karma Dorje said:
Why assume a correct final view

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not an assumption.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 11th, 2023 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as reverse tummo? (Inner cold?)
Content:
Sringa3 said:
I know this might sound ridiculous, but I'm genuinely curious. Is there a breathing practice that rather than generating heat, it releases heat so the body becomes colder?

Malcolm wrote:
Shitali breathing. There are also methods using prāṇāyama for cooling as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 11th, 2023 at 1:40 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Dependent Origination
Content:
Misty said:
“In dzogchen, dependent origination explains the origin of ma rig pa…..”

is there a close overlap of meaning being conveyed in the way ayoniso manasikara relates to yoniso manasikara and the way ma rig pa relates to rig pa?

Malcolm wrote:
No, not really at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 10th, 2023 at 10:17 PM
Title: Re: Karma and Dependent Origination
Content:


Vajrasvapna said:
On the other hand, Yogacara provides a better explanation based on a complex system, also illustrating how other beings can influence an individual's stream of consciousness.

Malcolm wrote:
No. The Yogacāra system, the transformation of the mind stream (cittasantanapariṇāma), is untenable because it asserts that causes and effects are utterly unrelated. It's explicitly negated in the MMK.

It is adopted conventionally in Vajrayāna due to its simplicity, not because it can withstand analysis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 10th, 2023 at 9:44 PM
Title: Re: Kalachakra and Dzogchen
Content:


Vajrasvapna said:
Yes, in general. However, in the case of the Kalachakra, it is not. Indeed, it represents the most complex and advanced tantra of Indian Vajrayana culture. It's as if all other tantras were a series of training for the development of the Kalachakra; the only parallel I see is with Dzogchen.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no creation stage or completion stage in Dzogchen, so not parallel at all.

Vajrasvapna said:
I thought about all Nyingma Vajrayana, where Dzogchen it the end goal.

Malcolm wrote:
That is the goal of anuyuoga. The 17 tantras and so on, do not perceive Dzogchen as an end goal. They perceive Dzogchen as the basis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 10th, 2023 at 9:05 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Dependent Origination
Content:
sun-and-moon said:
It seems to me that Drathalgyur, 2nd chapter, explains dependent origination as origin of transmigration.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct. You will be to read the expanded explanation when wisdom publishes my translation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 10th, 2023 at 12:04 PM
Title: Re: Misbehavior within Tibetan communities
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
Is it the guru’s responsibility to handle their students?

Malcolm wrote:
No, of course not. Gurus are not parents, and students are not children.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 10th, 2023 at 6:42 AM
Title: Re: Kalachakra and Dzogchen
Content:
Kai lord said:
All Vajrayana teachings originated from the Buddha

Indra's Bow said:
That's correct.  This is the view of the Buddhist teachings themselves, those of the Buddha and all bodhisattvas and buddhas after him, and the whole traditional history of the Dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
"The Buddha" is a broad term. Not every Buddhist sūtra was spoken the Buddha, and the inner tantras are definitely not teachings of the historical Buddha, unlike the lower tantras.

For example, Śākyamuni Buddha did not explain Guhyasamaja to Indrabhuti I. He merely manifested the mandala and bestowed the empowerment. The same goes for the Hevajra Tantra, although in this case some Indians held that he taught the Hevajra tantras while in the form of Hevajra, Of course, being in the form of Hevajra means one is not a nirmāṇakāya.

And in point of fact, Sákyamuni never taught the Cakrsamvara tantra. It was taught by Buddha Vajradhara long before the time of Śākyamuni to Vajrasattva, thence to Vajrapani, who gave it to Saraha I. Likewise, the Dzogchen tantras were never taught by Śākyamuni, the latter merely predicted their arrival, etc.

And all of these are "just so stories," without any historical fact to base them upon.

So, we cannot be promiscuous with the notion, "Taught by the Buddha." One has to be precise. Not only this, but texts are not the real tantra anyway.

Anyway, I am sure you will be banned again for being a complete pain in the ass with your dogmatic obsessions, just like all the other times you chose to register under a new nym and start a fight with me.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 10th, 2023 at 5:27 AM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Peyote and other natural entheogens...

Malcolm wrote:
Done them all. Nothing there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 10th, 2023 at 2:15 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Dependent Origination
Content:


Jules 09 said:
Do you have a Dzogchen teacher?

If yes, ask them.

Malcolm wrote:
Fixed it for you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 10th, 2023 at 1:05 AM
Title: Re: Kalachakra and Dzogchen
Content:


Kai lord said:
Just like no one has a clear idea on the composition date of Vishnu Purana and its completion.......

Malcolm wrote:
Mostly certainly predates the Kalacakra, however.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 9th, 2023 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: Dissociation and Awareness
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
I discovered that some lineages of Vajrayana and Dzogchen make use of plants with dissociative effects.

Malcolm wrote:
This is not the case with Dzogchen, despite the presence of a single passage which indicates that some people with very stubborn clinging to realism should use datura in order to dislodge their fixation. However, there is no living tradition of this. Generally, as far as Tibet goes, they have no tradition of using entheogens at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 9th, 2023 at 11:20 PM
Title: Re: Kalachakra and Dzogchen
Content:
Kai lord said:
Although the idea that Kalachakra appeared only after 10th century is debatable given its origins in shambhala long before its second debut in jambudvipa

Malcolm wrote:
So you don't believe the other legend, that Buddha taught it inside the Dhanyakataka Stupa? From whence it was taken to Shambhala? And what do you make of the obvious relationship to Viṣṇu avatars?

Kai lord said:
All Vajrayana teachings originated from the Buddha.

Malcolm wrote:
You mean Śakyamuni Buddha? If so, this is false.

Kai lord said:
Maybe some early skeleton forms/structure of Kalachakra tantra was written down and was hidden in that stupa when Kalachakra made its first debut in Jambudvipa as the legend had recorded. However some themes like "battle against the Muslims" were obviously added much later because during Buddha's times, Christians didn't even exist yet much a less the Muslims. In addition the Muslim (barbarian) invasions towards India, were a 10th/11th century event that go unnoticed by the other HYTs from the earlier centuries like secret assembly, etc. Earlier anuttarayoga tantras were silent on that matter and do not contain the same prophecies about a Messiah like figure unlike the prophecy in Kalachakra which is a sign/display of Buddhists reacting to their time and circumstances.

Malcolm wrote:
This means you have no idea.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 9th, 2023 at 10:07 PM
Title: Re: Kalachakra and Dzogchen
Content:
tingdzin said:
It is an error to assume that the most recent development in a historical trend necessarily represents its highest or most profound form. "final" is OK if you mean only that it was historically the most  recent.

Vajrasvapna said:
Yes, in general. However, in the case of the Kalachakra, it is not. Indeed, it represents the most complex and advanced tantra of Indian Vajrayana culture. It's as if all other tantras were a series of training for the development of the Kalachakra; the only parallel I see is with Dzogchen.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no creation stage or completion stage in Dzogchen, so not parallel at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 9th, 2023 at 10:02 PM
Title: Re: Kalachakra and Dzogchen
Content:
Kai lord said:
Although the idea that Kalachakra appeared only after 10th century is debatable given its origins in shambhala long before its second debut in jambudvipa

Malcolm wrote:
So you don't believe the other legend, that Buddha taught it inside the Dhanyakataka Stupa? From whence it was taken to Shambhala? And what do you make of the obvious relationship to Viṣṇu avatars?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 9th, 2023 at 9:20 PM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:
Kai lord said:
disciples themselves awaken, open, or realize the true nature of their own minds by themselves.


Malcolm wrote:
That’s the only it works anyway.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 9th, 2023 at 9:03 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Dependent Origination
Content:



Jules 09 said:
Neither here nor there.

The pointing out instructions are essential.

Followed up by guidance on how to strengthen and gain stability in that which was pointed out.


Malcolm wrote:
Jules: There is a lot more to Dzogchen teachings than pointing out instructions. For example, the commentary on the sgra thal 'gyur alone is 825 pages.

Direct introduction is the indispensable start. But it is not the end.

Jules 09 said:
The "state of Samantabhadra" has no beginning or end.

Malcolm wrote:
However Samantabhadra has a beginning, but no end.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 8th, 2023 at 9:27 PM
Title: Re: Buddha Nature, Dölpopa's Shentong and Parmenides's Thesis
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
Adding the Great Mipham Rinpoche's view to this topic about Shentong:

Malcolm wrote:
This is most certainly not Mipham's final view on the subject, but more of an paṇdita style exercise in presenting a system from its own point of view.

Mipham is, in the final analysis, most assuredly a follower of Candrakīrti, as in Longchenpa before him.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 8th, 2023 at 9:19 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Dependent Origination
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
A question for those who focus their practices on Dzogchen: would the doctrine of dependent origination be something essential or secondary for those who concentrate on Dzogchen?

ThreeVows said:
FWIW, I would say that dependent origination, properly discerned, is the same thing as the realization of Noble Right View, and the proper realization of the Four Noble Truths, and is solely the domain of the arya sangha. It may not be that one needs to intellectually work with the 12 nidanas and what not at length with Dzogchen practice, but the essential meaning is essential.

Indra's Bow said:
the Samantabhadra state predating the separation of the Dharma Realm into samsara and nirvana, hence preceding the start of the operation of the initial causal link of ignorance and all its consequent effects leading to this whole mass of suffering.


Malcolm wrote:
Common mistake here: Samantabhadra also possessed the so-called ignorance of the same identical cause and the connate ignorance.

The divide between samsara and nirvana happens with the third ignorance, the imputing ignorance. This is also the beginning of the delusion, the formation of the all-basis, the operation of the six intellects. This third ignorance, the cause of delusion is what Samantabhadra was never subjected to. This distinction is made because there is a) nonafflictive ignorance, which is a knowledge obscuration, and b) afflictive ignorance, which is the afflictive obscuration, and the actual start of the twelve nidanas.

Thus, in every moment, we have the possibility to avoid the third ignorance, and realize the state of Samantanbhadra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 8th, 2023 at 9:12 PM
Title: Re: As a Theravadan this "Tulku" tradition it seems to me very political
Content:
Dharmaraja said:
Hi, you all, I am Theravada practisioner, and I am reading about tibetan culture and buddhism, I really like a lot of your practise, but there is a thing it seem to me very "political", it's this enthronment of Tulku children.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it is 98% politics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 8th, 2023 at 7:59 PM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Likewise, the Longchen Nyingthig Aural lineage was passed down to Patrul, who instructed Luntog Tenpey Nyima. He in turn instructed Khenpo Ngachung, who wrote it all down. It is preserved in Khenpo Ngachung's collected works in the sealed section. These two text are what is known as the "aural lineage" of Longchen Nyinthig. It is basically an explanation lineage for Yeshe Lama.

heart said:
In Khenpo Ngakchung's biography the aural lineage take 100 days to transmit and the texts he wrote is the complete volume 9 of his collected work, do they correspond with each other? Somehow I wonder if what Nushol Khen transmitted to Mingyur Rinpoche and a number of other masters might be a part of the aural lineage that is still aural since I am pretty sure they all already received the complete works of Khenpo Ngakchung.

Malcolm wrote:
If the texts are being transmitted experientially, they easily could take three months.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 8th, 2023 at 2:07 AM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:
heart said:
.... the main transmission of Dzogchen in Longchen Nyingtik is oral and not written down, as you known this known as the nyengyu.

yagmort said:
anywhere i can read more about it? is it what is called mengak nyengyu chenmo?
is it what Mingyur Rinpoche practiced for several months retreat with Nyoshul Khenpo or different?

Malcolm wrote:
Khenpo Namdrol once explained the trekcho portion at Lerab Ling.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 8th, 2023 at 2:01 AM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:
heart said:
it is obvious that the main transmission of Dzogchen in Longchen Nyingtik is oral and not written down, as you known this known as the nyengyu.

Malcolm wrote:
It is written down, in two texts called "snyan brgyud." These texts are commentaries on the respective trekcho and thogal sections of Yeshe Lama. The trekcho text is a synopsis of what Khenpo Ngachung himself explained. The latter was spoken to Khenpo Ngachung after Luntog Tenpey Nyima could no longer read well. So Luntog Tenpey Nyima explained from memory his understanding of the practice of thogal as explained in Yeshe Lama.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 8th, 2023 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: Khendrup Lhachi
Content:
dondruptsering said:
Thanks, you mentioned mkhas instead of mkhen. Does that change the meaning somewhat? Also, this name was given to a woman. She said it was given randomly. Seems more like a man's name, no?
A friend recently received the above refuge name from a Nyingma Khenpo in Kham. Not sure what Khendrup means as a complete word though I believe lhachi is along the lines of happy god or goddess.

Thanks for any help!

IMG_0446.jpg

Malcolm wrote:
mkhas sgrub means accomplished scholar, lha skyid is the Tibetan name of the arhat Devaśarman who compiled of one of Abhidharma texts, the Vijñānakāya.
Means the same thing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 11:54 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
MiphamFan said:
I don't necessarily agree with Malcolm about everything

Malcolm wrote:
Shocked, I am shocked I tell you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 11:47 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:



Knotty Veneer said:
Re: the bardo - yes I am.

Malcolm wrote:
Stephen Batchelor much?

Knotty Veneer said:
I know you always have to win an argument Malcolm but is that all you have?

Malcolm wrote:
It's a heuristic. You don't accept rebirth, and that is perfectly fine. There isn't much point in trying to convince skeptics of anything. As the Throbbing Gristle song goes:

There's never a way,
And there's never a day,
To convince people.
You can play their game,
You can say their name, 
But won't convince people.

If you want to discover whether rebirth is a fact, you won't discover it through reason. You will only discover it through developing the necessary faculty of the divine eye in samādhi. But it is probably better for you to practice Dharma and eliminate your own afflictions. Even if you don't accept rebirth, you will be happier in this life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Knotty Veneer said:
I am not arguing that the bardo does not exist - just against the unfounded conviction that anyone knows for sure what happens after the death of the body.

Malcolm wrote:
You re actually arguing that no one can know that there is a bardo at all.

I take you do not accept that there is such a thing as the deva cakṣu, the divine eye?

Knotty Veneer said:
Re: the bardo - yes I am.

Malcolm wrote:
Stephen Batchelor much?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 10:45 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Knotty Veneer said:
I am not arguing that the bardo does not exist - just against the unfounded conviction that anyone knows for sure what happens after the death of the body.

Malcolm wrote:
You re actually arguing that no one can know that there is a bardo at all.

I take you do not accept that there is such a thing as the deva cakṣu, the divine eye?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 10:04 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:


Könchok Thrinley said:
You are assuming too muh here. I respect Trungpa for his writings, teachings et al. I truly believe hevwas a great master but he clearly made a mess.

Malcolm wrote:
He had some serious health issues which he tried to resolve through self-medicating, which led to his eventual death. I don't think your characterization of him as a "raging alcoholic" really assists anyone in understanding the man and his contribution to the Dharma, just as labeling Sogyal a sybaritic libertine does not really assist anyone in understanding the man and his contribution to the Dharma.

Whether we like it or not, liberation is clearly not a result of positive karma, and cannot be impeded by negative karma. If liberation could be impeded by negative karma, no one could ever attain liberation because we have gathered far more negative karma than positive karma from beginningless time.

So we have this human life to get ourselves sorted out and that's it. We have a precious human birth. We should not waste it by perseverating on actions that have nothing do with us, spending our time accepting and rejecting.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 9:47 PM
Title: Re: Khendrup Lhachi
Content:
dondruptsering said:
A friend recently received the above refuge name from a Nyingma Khenpo in Kham. Not sure what Khendrup means as a complete word though I believe lhachi is along the lines of happy god or goddess.

Thanks for any help!

IMG_0446.jpg

Malcolm wrote:
mkhas sgrub means accomplished scholar, lha skyid is the Tibetan name of the arhat Devaśarman who compiled of one of Abhidharma texts, the Vijñānakāya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 8:29 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
I am sorry but are we really going to pretend that rape, exploitation, etc were just enlightemed activity or neccessary evil and their perpetrators are beyond criticism just because they practiced dzogchen?

To quote Leomard Cohen "I didn't know I had permission to murder and to maim."

Malcolm wrote:
You again miss the point.

Ironic that you quote Cohen, his teacher allegedly molested dozens of women at Mt. Baldy, quite without their permission.

But no, we are not pretending anything of the sort. I am pointing out that even heinous crimes, like those committed by Angulimala, are not a barrier to liberation. Since this is the case, why do you continue to rail against the notion that it possible for people like Sogyal to attain liberation in the bardo? In your moralistic world, only goody two shoes can be liberated. But this is a very Christian view, not the Buddha’s view at all.

Knotty Veneer said:
How do you know what happened to either Sogyal or Trungpa in the bardo? How do you know there is even a bardo?

Your answers absolve both of them by calling on faith and scripture. It is no different than if you had said that through their faith in Jesus their sins were forgiven and both went to heaven after they died.


Malcolm wrote:
Again with the Christian thing.

Karma cannot be absolved. Buddha did not absolve Angulimala of killing hundreds of people. Karma either ripens or it does not. In Angulimala’s case, he was never going to take birth in samsara again. If he were, he would have necessarily experienced the ripening of those actions.

As for the bardo, if you don’t accept rebirth, it doesn’t matter. But if you don’t accept rebirth, karma doesn’t matter either. Also liberation does not matter.  And it’s strange you even consider yourself a Buddhist if you don’t accept rebirth, and so on.

I personally accept rebirth, based inference, etc. YMMV. Based on that acceptance, I take seriously the idea that most Dzogchen practitioners are liberated in the bardo and that everyone who enters the door of Dzogchen teachings attains liberation, again, YMMV.

As for crazy wisdom, I’ve explained what Trungpa meant by the term, before the tread got knocked off course by the usual handwringing and gnashing of teeth that results in some quarters from mentioning his name.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 8:10 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
People’s concepts of what a “good” practitioner are is pretty funny...

yagmort said:
a good practitioner is the one who stays true to Dharma ethics. not sure whats funny about that

Malcolm wrote:
A good practitioner is someone who works hard to benefit sentient beings. What have you done for sentient beings lately besides engage in gossip about dead teachers on Dharmawheel?
...as if there is any difference at all between watching tv and watching any other display, including sadhanas.
yes if he was a dzogchenpa, which i trust he wasn't
That’s hilarious. We are talking about someone who had the best Dzogchen teachers on the planet, who spent tons of time with all of them, who had total faith and devotion to Dzogchen teachings. Sure, Sogyal embarrassed himself, was sybaritic, pompous, and had many other apparent faults. That has nothing to do with his opportunity for liberation in the bardo, or his practice while he was alive.

He also sponsored more teachers to come to the west than anyone else. I’d stack up that fact against his “ethical breaches” any day. He did more for the Dharma in Europe than you or I will ever do. The same goes for Trungpa. So stop being so arrogant and judgmental.


If the Buddha were alive today, and some you heard that he had knocked up some women (as he in fact was accused of doing), I am quite sure some of you would believe it and abandon the Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 7:44 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
I am sorry but are we really going to pretend that rape, exploitation, etc were just enlightemed activity or neccessary evil and their perpetrators are beyond criticism just because they practiced dzogchen?

To quote Leomard Cohen "I didn't know I had permission to murder and to maim."

Malcolm wrote:
You again miss the point.

Ironic that you quote Cohen, his teacher allegedly molested dozens of women at Mt. Baldy, quite without their permission.

But no, we are not pretending anything of the sort. I am pointing out that even heinous crimes, like those committed by Angulimala, are not a barrier to liberation. Since this is the case, why do you continue to rail against the notion that it possible for people like Sogyal to attain liberation in the bardo? In your moralistic world, only goody two shoes can be liberated. But this is a very Christian view, not the Buddha’s view at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 12:34 PM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The Yuthog Nyinthig is an Mahayoga/Anuyoga system..........

Kai lord said:
Well, you had said that regarding most of the terma cycles out there. Even LN is 99% Mahayoga/anuyoga system to you.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct. But this is not my observation. It is the observation of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. “Mostly,” however is not 99%. More like 85%.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 12:26 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
...practiced them...

yagmort said:
why are you so sure of it? he doesn't strike me as a practitioner.
i recall how Chime Rigdzin Rinpoche was at the opposite side of his room at the hotel so he saw him thoriugh the window and commented something akin to his watching TV all the time so he cannot be good practitioner let alone giving wangs.

Malcolm wrote:
..it appears to me they introduced literally hundreds of thousands of people to the Dharma

yagmort said:
to me, they intoduced people to their cultish own version of the Dharma, not the Dharma.



Malcolm wrote:
People’s concepts of what a “good” practitioner are is pretty funny, as if there is any difference at all between watching tv and watching any other display, including sadhanas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 10:03 AM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Quite frankly, do you pretend to know what the actual effects of the actions of Trungpa or Sogyal are? From where I sit, it appears to me they introduced literally hundreds of thousands of people to the Dharma.

Shaiksha said:
There is also the reputational damage suffered for the buddhadharma in general, Tibetan Buddhism in particular. It is not hard to see if there are enough of those incidents, they will cause a decline in buddhadharma in general. There is anecdotal evidence in a small scope and also in other religions/spiritual movements.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a very conventional view. Nothing to do with the real subject matter here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 8:57 AM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Shaiksha said:
Sure. But, in those stories, we were always told the end result that revealed the benovelant intentions of the bodhisattvas or the happy endings for the people involved. Although I try not to make conclusive statements as I don't have the full facts, most of the offences committed by the modern-day teachers in the West (either by Tibetan or western teachers) appear to only have negative or very damaging effects to other people, which we can the question whether they were "skillful means" or just plain wrong.

Malcolm wrote:
Quite frankly, do you pretend to know what the actual effects of the actions of Trungpa or Sogyal are? From where I sit, it appears to me they introduced literally hundreds of thousands of people to the Dharma.

More than that, are we really certain that in terms of karma, the “offenses” these teachers are supposed to have committed did not in fact remove many obstacles from the paths of their “victims,” shortening the paths of the latter by eons?

It’s quite narrow minded to pretend we have any real insight into the workings of positive and negative karma of this teacher and that teacher, this student and that student, given that the activity of karma spreads out over eons and countless lifetimes. We have all been every terrible being and benevolent being, perpetrator and victim alike.

No one forces us to take teachings from anyone. But we should exercise caution before deciding to commit ourselves to a negative view of people like Trungpa and Sogyal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 7:33 AM
Title: Re: How an abuse scandal devastated the Buddhist faith community
Content:
Ayu said:
But it's no really new news.

tingdzin said:
Yes, it's all water under the bridge, unless one was either affected on a personal level or one has some kind of axe to grind.

Malcolm wrote:
Agreed. Old news.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 7:29 AM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Shaiksha said:
Perhaps, we need some context for the quote above. Again, to provide context, Malcolm used the quote above to justify Trungpa's behavior. so, what is the limit of the "deterioration of sila" is acceptable, none just from the quote above - no bottom to what you can get away with, which rather bother me.

Malcolm wrote:
Nope. I just pointed this out because some people are under the impression that “observable” behavior is more important than view. I am quite certain some people in this conversation would be horrified at much of the apparently unvirtuous behavior of bodhisattvas, like giving away their children and spouses as slaves to Brahmins, only to be relieved by the fact that the prince in question first secured the permission of his family not to impede his practice of generosity.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 2:31 AM
Title: Re: Back in the USA II
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 2:02 AM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:


Lingpupa said:
I even seem to recall somewhere reading an attempt to absolve Sogyal of his ghastliness on the grounds that he must have received some dzogchen teaching, so he was somehow beyond ethics. Old news: doesn't work!

Malcolm wrote:
Whatever people may think, he received Dzogchen teachings, practiced them, and since I personally accept Dzogchen teachings to be true, I am quite sure that if he did not wake up in the bardo of dharmatā, at the very least, since he himself expressed total faith in Dzogchen teachings, he took rebirth as a human being and will meet Dzogchen teachings again in 25 or 35 years after his birth.

Now, you might doubt the power of Dzogchen teachings, but I don't.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 1:03 AM
Title: Re: Ukraine News
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 12:14 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Dependent Origination
Content:


Indra's Bow said:
The doctrine of dependent arising via the links of ignorance through old age, sickness and death isn't itself a contemplation of nonarising; quite the opposite - it considers exactly how conditioned phenomena do arise, abide, change and cease.

Malcolm wrote:
That really depends on how one perceives dependent origination. When one understands the real meaning of arising from conditions, one understands nonarising. This is why it is said in the PP Sutra in 2000 lines, "Whatever arises in dependence, in reality, that does not arise."

Its also why Nāgārjuna states:

I pay homage to the best of teachers,
the perfect Buddha, by whom dependent origination—
neither ceasing nor arising, 
neither annihilated nor permanent,
neither going nor coming,
neither different nor identical—
was taught as peace to pacify proliferation.

Just this is the state of the great perfection.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 7th, 2023 at 12:03 AM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Did or did not the serial killer Angulmala attain arhatship?

Shaiksha said:
It's a different context. He did his killings before he met the Buddha. Did you read about his stories after he became a monk? It's quite inspiring actually. I could only wish I had a heart like that - getting stoned and hit by sticks and could still wish the perpetrators well - a bit like Jesus' story.

Malcolm wrote:
People were afraid of Angulimala, justifiably so. Nevetheless, the point still stands.

Shaiksha said:
This is my understanding. But, it appears that this is not the case if you read Malcolm's post closely. Hence, my question.

Malcolm wrote:
Do you think a butcher, hunter, trapper, soldier, etc. are barred from liberation? Even someone who has committed any of the five deeds of immediate retribution is not barred from liberation if they subsequently receive Dzogchen teachings. The point is that liberation is in no way connected with either virtuous or nonvirtuous action.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 6th, 2023 at 11:52 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Actually, this is wrong. He never denied or deflected anything. Trungpa never made any excuses for anything he did.

Knotty Veneer said:
I don't buy that. Trungpa was a raging alcoholic - I don't recall him ever admitting the alcoholism that killed him.

Malcolm wrote:
He self-medicated for pain, yes, was physically addicted to alcohol, yes, did lots of cocaine, yes, used LSD with his students, yes, smoked cigarettes, yes, and so on. That has nothing to do with whether or not he was realized or attained liberation in the bardo.

Knotty Veneer said:
He was a complex character and clearly brilliant in many ways but he also seemed at times to enjoy seeing what he could get away with.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't see any evidence he thought he was getting away with anything.

Knotty Veneer said:
Do you not remember the podcast posted here a while back about his exploits by a kid brought up in Vajradhatu - particularly him french kissing a 13 year old.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, people are shocked by that now, but they would not have been so shocked in the 1970's--early 80's. They were different times, especially in more liberal communities like Boulder. Recall, Diana was 15 when she and Trungpa met, and 16 when they married, also not unusual in pre-Modern Tibet.

I am not trying to mitigate the harm that some people feel he inflicted. They are certainly entitled to their feelings; just as those who feel supremely benefitted by Trungpa are entitled to their feelings.

Knotty Veneer said:
He allowed a myth to evolve around him that paralyzed his followers with groupthink which allowed him to do things that would have got anyone else a slap in the mouth.

Malcolm wrote:
Not in the 1960's and 1970's. I grew up then, and I can tell you people were a lot more flexible every way. The Tibetan establishment was and is quite behind Trungpa. Whatever you may personally think of Trungpa, among Tibetan teachers who came to the West, he had the greatest overall impact, especially through his books.

You have to keep in mind: most people in Vajradhātu had very little personal interaction with Trungpa. The organization was and is very hierarchical, and particularly after 1976, when someone brought a gun to one of his public talks in Boulder and started waving it around, student interaction with Trungpa became more ceremonial in nature, as Trungpa surrounded himself with guards, valets, and so on.

But this is all ancient history. Trungpa passed away in 1987, and he would not recognize the organization he left behind.

Knotty Veneer said:
He covered his sociopathy by letting people think he was a mahasiddha.

Malcolm wrote:
Many Tibetan lamas, people like Dzongsar Khyentse, consider him a mahāsiddha to this day.

Perception is very subjective: for you, he is a sociopath; for his students, he is a buddha. Criticizing other people's gurus is a delicate business.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 6th, 2023 at 9:54 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Actually, this is wrong. He never denied or deflected anything. Trungpa never made any excuses for anything he did. I don't have any solid opinion on whether he was a mahāsiddha or not, but he was a real Dzogchen practitioner, and I have no doubt he attained liberation in the bardo. There were many signs at his cremation.

As Āryadeva points out, quoting the Buddha:

"A deterioration in ethics (śila) is acceptable, 
but [a deterioration] in view is not acceptable at all."
One goes to higher realms through ethics,
but the supreme stage comes about through view.

Shaiksha said:
So, hypothetically speaking, I can be a serial killer and as long as I have established the Dzogchen view before I die then I will achieve the liberation in the bardo. Am I understanding the implication of your assertion correctly?

Malcolm wrote:
Did or did not the serial killer Angulmala attain arhatship?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 6th, 2023 at 11:53 AM
Title: Re: Can Buddhists believe & practice some of the Buddha's teachings but reject other parts of it?
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
The Buddha taught the truth of the causes of our agitation and the path to serenity and freedom. In forty years, I have yet to find anything strictly requiring “belief” that is not, in a sense or at least to some degree, optional.

In other words, there’s very little in the vast collection of Buddhist texts that one needs to really be concerned with if it doesn’t lead to realization. You don’t need to believe that there’s a literal Mount Meru, or Buddhist hells, or even other realms if it doesn’t help you.
Their descriptions are customized for the way we humans grasp concepts anyway.

At the same time, at some point they may become obvious and you won’t need to “believe” in them then any more than you now “believe” you have eyeballs (which you have never seen directly!). You will be fully confident in what you know.

Indra's Bow said:
In the Abhidharmasamuccaya, for instance, the entire chapter of teaching on the Noble Truth of Suffering is cast in the mold of the impermanence of the universe as it is revealed and described by the Buddha and his offspring.  Without this insight, according to this text, and instead, say, holding to the popular views of nihilism, one cannot get a right view of the Truth of Suffering.  In this way, it follows that one must of necessity have the correct view of all of the Abhidharma, both that of psychology, morality, meditation, etc., as well as the nature of the external world, in order to properly understand the Noble Truth uniquely taught by the Buddha.  By this logic, with a heretical or nihilist view, one wouldn't be able to actually enter into the stream of awakening by penetrating into the Truth of Suffering.  It would follow then by the foregoing that it might be considered crucial that one embrace all of the Buddha's and Bodhisattvas' teaching as being accurate and true, both regarding mind and the physical external realm, since otherwise one would have misunderstood the meaning of the teaching and not realised the (Noble) Truth which cannot be heard anywhere in the threefold world outside of the Buddha's dispensation.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is not necessary to embrace the precise model presented in the Abhidharmasamuccaya to understand that the beings in the universe arises from causes of affliction and karma. One can understand the general principle to be correct without subscribing the particulars in every instance. And one can enter Buddhadharma without necessarily accepting any kind of belief, provided that one correctly understand that the Buddha's teaching is focused on ending rebirth in samsara, since that indeed is liberation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 6th, 2023 at 8:02 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Dependent Origination
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
A question for those who focus their practices on Dzogchen: would the doctrine of dependent origination be something essential or secondary for those who concentrate on Dzogchen?

Johnny Dangerous said:
Contemplating the non arising of all phenomena might lead to grokking that all phenomena are actually self liberated, which is pretty fundamental to Dzogchen….but ultimately philosophy is just philosophy.

The thing is, Dzogchen is not a philosophy per se, so it’s maybe accurate to say that from a Dzogchen point of view sutra based teachings might explain and bolster realizations, but they are not realizations themselves.

Malcolm wrote:
In dzogchen, dependent origination explains the origin of ma rig pa. If one does not grasp the origin of ma rig pa, axiomatically , one does not have rig pa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 6th, 2023 at 5:29 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Dependent Origination
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
A question for those who focus their practices on Dzogchen: would the doctrine of dependent origination be something essential or secondary for those who concentrate on Dzogchen?

Jules 09 said:
Neither here nor there.

The pointing out instructions are essential.

Followed up by guidance on how to strengthen and gain stability in that which was pointed out.


Malcolm wrote:
Jules: There is a lot more to Dzogchen teachings than pointing out instructions. For example, the commentary on the sgra thal 'gyur alone is 825 pages.

Direct introduction is the indispensable start. But it is not the end.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 6th, 2023 at 4:54 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Dependent Origination
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
A question for those who focus their practices on Dzogchen: would the doctrine of dependent origination be something essential or secondary for those who concentrate on Dzogchen?

tinylocusta said:
Secondary.

Malcolm wrote:
That's a strange answer considering how much material is devoted to explaining dependent origination in Dzogchen teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 6th, 2023 at 3:27 AM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Knotty Veneer said:
But Trungpa was the one who seems to have popularized the concept in modern times - I think mostly to cover his own misbehaving.

Malcolm wrote:
I do not think this is fair assessment.

Knotty Veneer said:
I don't have a lot of time for Trungpa. And his misbehaving began even before he came West.

Whether he was able to find a precedent for the concept - there is no denying he used to deflect/obfuscate criticism of his unDharmic behavior.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, this is wrong. He never denied or deflected anything. Trungpa never made any excuses for anything he did. I don't have any solid opinion on whether he was a mahāsiddha or not, but he was a real Dzogchen practitioner, and I have no doubt he attained liberation in the bardo. There were many signs at his cremation.

As Āryadeva points out, quoting the Buddha:

"A deterioration in ethics (śila) is acceptable, 
but [a deterioration] in view is not acceptable at all."
One goes to higher realms through ethics,
but the supreme stage comes about through view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 6th, 2023 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Knotty Veneer said:
But Trungpa was the one who seems to have popularized the concept in modern times - I think mostly to cover his own misbehaving.

Malcolm wrote:
I do not think this is fair assessment. He coined the term quite early, and while he certainly related the concept to Padmasambhava's role as a teacher trying to tame Tibetans, and by inference, what it takes to tame savage westerners, if you read his two seminal seminars on the idea, it's much more related to Dzogchen. Specifically, he related Dorje Drollo to discovering that one's primordial state is beyond being harmed by negative deeds or benefited by positive deeds.

For example, he explicitly says in his book that "crazy wisdom" is not part of the mahāmudra tradition:

Student: Has the crazy-wisdom teaching developed in any lineages other than the Nyingma lineage? 

Trungpa Rinpoche: I don’t think so. There is also the mahamudra lineage, which is based on a sense of precision and accuracy. But the crazy-wisdom lineage that I received from my guru seems to have much more potency. It is somewhat illogical—some people might find the sense of not knowing how to relate with it quite threatening. It seems to be connected with the Nyingma tradition and the maha ati lineage exclusively.

Trungpa, Chögyam. Crazy Wisdom (Dharma Ocean) . Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

You see, in Nyingma there are four classes of manifestation: peaceful, semi-wrathful, wrathful, and crazy. Only Dorje Drollo really qualifies for the last category. The practice of Drollo is very much related to the eight classes which cause so much trouble today, which makes it perhaps among the most effective yidam practices for the modern era, as I have asserted before. To practice Drollo, one really has to go beyond hope and fear.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 6th, 2023 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
This discussion about this teacher and that teacher and their wisdom is stupid.

The point of crazy wisdom, its irrationality, its provocative irreverence, is to undermine the subtlest clinging of ego.

Malcolm wrote:
Again the term originates with Trungpa, and very specifically, in a set of seminars he gave on Dorje Drollo.

https://www.shambhala.com/crazy-wisdom-444.html

PadmaVonSamba said:
Chögyam Trungpa describes "crazy wisdom" as an innocent state of mind that has the quality of early morning—fresh, sparkling, and completely awake.
Yes, and let’s continue to the end of that same paragraph: From this profound point of view, spiritual practice does not provide comfortable answers to pain or confusion. On the contrary, painful emotions can be appreciated as a challenging opportunity for new discovery. In particular, the author discusses meditation as a practical way to uncover one's own innate wisdom.
The point is, whether fresh and sparkly or drunk and stinky, is to keep the mind from settling into an ego trip.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, since the mind is already settled into an ego trip, I think the point is to dislodge it.

In any case, the book is pretty precise about what Trungpa meant when he coined the term. For example:

In the case of the primordial craziness of crazy wisdom, we do not permit ourselves to get seduced by passion or aroused by aggression at all. We relate with these experiences as they are, and if anything comes up in the midst of that complete ordinariness and begins to make itself into a big deal, then we cut it down—without any special reference to what is good and what is bad.

Trungpa, Chögyam. Crazy Wisdom (Dharma Ocean) . Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

So really, Trungpa's intent was that one use crazy wisdom for oneself. It has been poorly misunderstood to be something that teachers use with students.

As it relates to relating with students, he says:

The essence of crazy wisdom is that you have no strategized programs or ideals anymore at all. You are just open. Whatever students present, you just react accordingly.

Trungpa, Chögyam. Crazy Wisdom (Dharma Ocean) . Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

And of course, ultimately, for Trungpa, crazy wisdom means to be beyond hope and fear:

Until we realize the true implication of hopelessness, we have no chance of understanding crazy wisdom at all, ladies and gentlemen.

Trungpa, Chögyam. Crazy Wisdom (Dharma Ocean) . Shambhala. Kindle Edition.

Honestly, its his best book.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
This discussion about this teacher and that teacher and their wisdom is stupid.

The point of crazy wisdom, its irrationality, its provocative irreverence, is to undermine the subtlest clinging of ego.

Malcolm wrote:
Again the term originates with Trungpa, and very specifically, in a set of seminars he gave on Dorje Drollo.

https://www.shambhala.com/crazy-wisdom-444.html

PadmaVonSamba said:
Chögyam Trungpa describes "crazy wisdom" as an innocent state of mind that has the quality of early morning—fresh, sparkling, and completely awake.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 11:08 PM
Title: Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?
Content:
Tata1 said:
My point would be more like: im not willing to give you this empowerment because you got this other empowerment.

Malcolm wrote:
That is also valid, and not necessarily cause for alarm. We have to allow teachers to exercise their own prerogatives in terms of what they want to teach and to whom. I know Nyingma lamas who will not give empowerments to people who have received empowerments from the Dogyal faction of Geluks. The consideration here is samaya contamination.

Tata1 said:
Well or course. I thought about the dogyal as an exception but i did not write it

Malcolm wrote:
Another example, in the same line, is if there someone is the student of some lama who has a conflict with another lama, and the second lama refuses to give empowerment to that student.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 10:19 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Muddy343 said:
Why do some teachers have crazy wisdom and other don’t?

MaitreyaBuddha said:
Because non-crazies very potentially have not truly and deeply penetrated into the very Source of Mind and Experience!

PeterC said:
Sure, clearly HHDL, HHST, Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche, TUR, Dudjom Rinpoche, Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche and many other “non-crazies” didn’t truly and deeply penetrate into the very source of mind and experience.

Try taking your head out of your ass.

Malcolm wrote:
Now Peter, he is trying to penetrate into the source of mind and experience. I'd say, give him some KY to make it slip in more easily.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 9:02 PM
Title: Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?
Content:
Tata1 said:
My point would be more like: im not willing to give you this empowerment because you got this other empowerment.

Malcolm wrote:
That is also valid, and not necessarily cause for alarm. We have to allow teachers to exercise their own prerogatives in terms of what they want to teach and to whom. I know Nyingma lamas who will not give empowerments to people who have received empowerments from the Dogyal faction of Geluks. The consideration here is samaya contamination.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 8:18 PM
Title: Re: Crazy Wisdom Question
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Trungpa himself relates “crazy wisdom” to Dorje Drollo.


SilenceMonkey said:
In my dictionary, it says the tibetan phrase is ཡེ་ཤེས་འཆོལ་བ། Ye Shes 'Chol ba. Does this term have any basis in Tibetan history or scriptural tradition? And if not, is there another phrasing of "crazy wisdom" to be found in history or tradition?

Lingpupa said:
That is the equivalent that I too have seen. AFAIK, while it is just possible to find the term in a small number of obscure places (which I'm not able to cite), it's prominence in the West is essentially due to Trungpa. I heard (not a reliable piece of evidence here) that even back before he had to leave Samye Ling he was using it as a justification for his copious intoxication. "Crazy wisdom", along with having such a high level of realization that he was unharmed by all that booze while the rest of us would not cope.

I guess he was right about the last seven words above.

Diana claims Trungpa inherited the "crazy wisdom lineage" from Khenpo Gangshar, who perhaps could be graced with the epithet of "crazy wisdom", although, afaik, while he did take a consort and did drop monastic vows, he did not exactly adopt a life of luxury!!!

I don't know if we have any actual scholars here who could comment on ཡེ་ཤེས་འཆོལ་བ། with any authority.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 8:14 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen and Dependent Origination
Content:
Vajrasvapna said:
A question for those who focus their practices on Dzogchen: would the doctrine of dependent origination be something essential or secondary for those who concentrate on Dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
Essential.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 7:06 PM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:



jet.urgyen said:
That's one lecture, it is valid of course, but i think is was not just hi royal pride.

It was his attitude of rejecting, of deliveratively not integrating, of picking what to integrate and what not... that was his problem. But he got the dhakkini's (wisdom) hint, and after he became aware of his mistake he brought onto the path whatever he reject (fish gut) as a skillful mean (nurturing from it) to be able to completely integrate it (free). That is truly a profound yoga.


Malcolm wrote:
This kind of strict observance is not necessary in Dzogchen. This kind of strict observance is based on dualistic mind. The strict observance practiced in Dzogchen is rigpa.

Miorita said:
Wait a second!
You say that "water comes from fire" is only a nominal affirmation and that it is not based on observation. p. 8 R.1a.
First of all, I disagree because before the BuddhaDharma I met the theory of the trutis and it was explained to my surprise how water element emerges from the fire element. It happens via condensation of vibration.
You can't do philosophy on examples that are already set as true. Trying to be a theoretician, you abandon the path, remember? And not only that, but you deny the observation.

Then you quote an even bigger thing, If names and so on are not fixed,
then the separate actions of the elements could switch.
No, this does not happen. Name is assigned to meaning. A name is assigned to designate. In the context of the theory of trutis, elements can be arbitrarily named, but they'll keep their meaning/qualities. You could give wrong names, but behind the name there are fixed qualities. I refer only to the theory here. The meaning fixes the name. It's from the inside out, not the other way around!
Since this does not separate name and meaning at all
Well, you've been prevented from doing it by way of necessity.

And you conclude with, arising in the present is not possible in the Dharmata that has never arisen
which begs the question, what present do you refer to if there is no essence, Dharmata?

Malcolm wrote:
What does any of the above have to do with my observation about strict observances?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 10:40 AM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:


Jules 09 said:
Being the son of a king, it was Luipa's "royal pride" that was the problem.

jet.urgyen said:
That's one lecture, it is valid of course, but i think is was not just hi royal pride.

It was his attitude of rejecting, of deliveratively not integrating, of picking what to integrate and what not... that was his problem. But he got the dhakkini's (wisdom) hint, and after he became aware of his mistake he brought onto the path whatever he reject (fish gut) as a skillful mean (nurturing from it) to be able to completely integrate it (free). That is truly a profound yoga.


Malcolm wrote:
This kind of strict observance is not necessary in Dzogchen. This kind of strict observance is based on dualistic mind. The strict observance practiced in Dzogchen is rigpa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: Ukraine News
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 2:42 AM
Title: Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?
Content:
Tata1 said:
Im sorry but this is nonsense.
I never heard any lama not giving some teaching because they practice or study several linages. And if they do is a giant red flag to me.

Malcolm wrote:
It's more common than you might imagine. It's not necessarily a red flag, however. Some lamas only wish to devote their time to students who are dedicated to one practice lineage. Quite honestly, if someone came to me and explicitly said, "I want to learn about Dzogchen, but I really prefer keep practicing x," I'd say, "You're wasting both of our time. The teachings are not something we study just for idle interest. Come back when you are serious about Dzogchen teachings and are interested in making them your primary focus."  It's a bit of a fault to take Vajrayāna teachings merely out of curiosity or some attempt at being "ris med."

Tata1 said:
This is not what i mean. Of course if someone is teaching someone is for them to practice.
But not teaching someone because this deity is associated with this linage or that linage is nonsense.
Chnn didnt have a problem teaching dzogchen on the basis of Tsongkhapas guru yoga for example.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, lets say you received Cakrasamvara from a Kagyu Lama. Then you go to a Sakya Lama requesting teachings on Cakrasamvara. I can quite well imagine the second lama refusing on the grounds that you don't have the Sakya transmission.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 2:17 AM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:


climb-up said:
Thank you for breaking that down

Malcolm wrote:
At the time the YN was formulated, the teachings of the 17 tantras and Vima Nyinthig ancillary literature was quite confined to an extremely small coterie of practitioners. There is no evidence that Yuthok ever received such teachings.

climb-up said:
Oh interesting, that makes sense.

Malcolm wrote:
I honestly don't see much point in people who do not practice Tibetan Medicine getting involved in the YN. The reason the retreats in it are short, etc., is because it is a practice designed for busy physicians. But this does not apply to other people. Why? Because the YN is intended for people of great merit and little time. Other peoples time is better spent receiving teachings in Longchen Nyinthig, Dudjom Tersar, and so on.

The primary role of the YN these days is drupchens for blessing medicine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 2:13 AM
Title: Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?
Content:
Tata1 said:
Im sorry but this is nonsense.
I never heard any lama not giving some teaching because they practice or study several linages. And if they do is a giant red flag to me.

Malcolm wrote:
It's more common than you might imagine. It's not necessarily a red flag, however. Some lamas only wish to devote their time to students who are dedicated to one practice lineage. Quite honestly, if someone came to me and explicitly said, "I want to learn about Dzogchen, but I really prefer keep practicing x," I'd say, "You're wasting both of our time. The teachings are not something we study just for idle interest. Come back when you are serious about Dzogchen teachings and are interested in making them your primary focus."  It's a bit of a fault to take Vajrayāna teachings merely out of curiosity or some attempt at being "ris med."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 5th, 2023 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:
jet.urgyen said:
ok, i'm ready for the usual protests. (lol).

Malcolm wrote:
The siddha you are describing is Luipa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 4th, 2023 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: Rushen retreat reading list
Content:


ject said:
That makes no sense at all.

Is there a error in translation? The meaning of word "all" is not really "all" but "just some"?

There is also some talk about pranas -  pushing, pulling, holding etc. I wonder if all this be covered in that retreat?

Malcolm wrote:
"All" means all. Everything we do in this life, apart from practicing the dharma, is pointless and just causes us to continue in samsara. Therefore, in order to make our life meaningful, we practice the dharma. In other words, life is meaningless, but dharma makes it meaningful. The example is a dream, since no matter what we do in a dream, good or bad, when we wake up, we understand that it was all meaningless, just a dream.

The discussion at the end is related to yantra yoga, and has to do with conduct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 4th, 2023 at 12:28 PM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:


climb-up said:
Thank you for breaking that down

Malcolm wrote:
At the time the YN was formulated, the teachings of the 17 tantras and Vima Nyinthig ancillary literature was quite confined to an extremely small coterie of practitioners. There is no evidence that Yuthok ever received such teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 4th, 2023 at 10:15 AM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:


climb-up said:
Sorry for my lack of Tibetan:
A semtri text means DI?

Malcolm wrote:
Nature of mind teachings.


climb-up said:
So, based on that, it would contain ati teachings, from the 9 yana schema, but not go beyond the 9 yanas?
Is that correct? Or at least close?

Malcolm wrote:
Correct.

climb-up said:
And CN is also not in the most secret unsurpassed cycle, even though it contains the thögal teachings; it is just directly connected with that cycle. (I don’t mean “just” to be dismissive here, only trying to clarify).
Interesting.

Malcolm wrote:
The CN has teachings from the unsurpassed secret cycle, while the YN does not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 4th, 2023 at 9:56 AM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:



climb-up said:
This sounds similar to the Yuthok Nyingthig (ie primarily the four guru yogas, but containing complete ngondro, 6 yogas, mahamudra, Dzogchen).

Is that accurate?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope. Not at all. Names might be the same, but CN is in its own class. Plus, there is no rushan, trekcho or thogal in tne Yuthog Nyinthig.

climb-up said:
I was aware that wasn’t thögal in the root text but you’re saying there is also no rushen or trekchö in the YN!?

That’s interesting.  Dr Nida teaches the Rushan when teaches YN Dzogchen, but on looking through “Mirror of Light” I see that the rushan section references and pulls from other texts.

But I don’t understand how you can say that there is no trekchö.  The text, translated in Dr Nida’s book as “Great Self Liberation of Samsara-Nirvana” seems to cover trekchö, even containing instructions on the three readings (which I assumed, maybe incorrectly?, to be a translation of chogzhag - even though it’s three and not four) and is referred it as such by Dr Nida.
Is there some other term that you would identify it as?

Malcolm wrote:
The Yuthog Nyinthig is an Mahayoga/Anuyoga system. It has a semtri text, but it does not belong to the most secret unsurpassed cycle. Neither does the CN, for that matter, if we are talking about the Ngondro practice, but latter is directly related to the most secret unsurpassed cycle, while the former is not, since the latter contains instructions from Dzogchen Nyinthig and the former does not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 4th, 2023 at 8:07 AM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:



Tata1 said:
Malcom is there somewhere i can read the general outline of chetsun?
I will receive this in a few months and im curious

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, speaking, the main point of the CN is a guru yoga of Vimalamitra, and the main approach is guru yoga.

Otherwise, in addition to the seven lojongs, it has refuge, bodhicitta, Vajrasattva, Mandala, and Guru Yoga. It also has anuyoga style creation and completion as well, in addition, it has rushen, trekcho, and thogal.

climb-up said:
This sounds similar to the Yuthok Nyingthig (ie primarily the four guru yogas, but containing complete ngondro, 6 yogas, mahamudra, Dzogchen).

Is that accurate?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope. Not at all. Names might be the same, but CN is in its own class. Plus, there is no rushan, trekcho or thogal in tne Yuthog Nyinthig.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 4th, 2023 at 7:32 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Unknown said:
While waiting for his plate of meat loaf, gravy, and an iceberg wedge at an empty restaurant in Concord, New Hampshire, on the first day of June, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was gently explaining to me that nobody knows whether HIV is the sole cause of AIDS…


Kennedy crowed to me about his horseshoe coalition gathered round a campaign he views as fundamentally populist. And it’s quite a band he has put together: crunchy Whole Foods–shopping anti-vaxxers, paunchy architects of hard-right authoritarianism looking to boost a chaos agent, Nader-Stein third-party perma-gremlins, some Kennedy-family superfans, and rich tech bros seeking a lone wolf to legitimize them. Their convening can give the impression of weightiness, but if you so much as blew on them, the alliance would shatter into a million pieces. The only thing that seems to bind them is Kennedy, the current embodiment of a warped fantasy of marginalization and martyrdom that has become ever more appealing — and thus politically significant — in an age of disinformation and distrust in government and institutions…

Kennedy has also suggested that 5G high-speed-internet towers are being used to “harvest our data and control our behavior”; posited a link between mass shootings and antidepressant use; told Rogan that Wi-Fi pierces “the blood-brain barrier,” causing “leaky brain”; and claimed the presence of atrazine in the water supply has contributed to depression and gender dysphoria among boys since atrazine is known to clinically castrate frogs when dumped into their tanks.

Malcolm wrote:
https://apple.news/Azfqs1F-6RqS6y7nnFR4FxQ





And he is right wing lunatic as well:
When recently asked at a town hall what he would do to halt the proliferation of semi-automatic weapons, he replied, “I’m not going to take people’s guns away.” And during the Twitter Spaces conversation with Musk and Sacks in June, he said he was going to “seal the border permanently.” He told the Breaking Points podcast that he wants to shift spending out of a military-industrial interventionist mind-set and into “Fortress America — arming ourselves to the teeth at home….”

Kennedy called Tucker Carlson “breathtakingly courageous.” This spring, he posted a photo of himself with far-right activist James O’Keefe, who has used deceptively edited videos as attack vehicles against ACORN, Planned Parenthood, and NPR..

Now his brain trust appears to be the hyperonline, hard-right masculinity influencers who give him the approval he craves and encourage him to do things like post videos of himself shirtless, his chest and arms improbably pumped, doing nine janky push-ups…

But this country, with its political system built around white patriarchal ideals of who powerful men are supposed to be, and its very limited view of what other kinds of power might look like, has created too irresistible an opportunity for someone with a famous name, a tremendous ego, and a persecution complex. So here we are, eight years after Trump descended the elevator in Trump Tower, listening to a man talking about ivermectin and the fascism of Fauci and the castration of frogs and watching him run riot in a Democratic primary.
What a dipshit. And so is anyone who votes for him.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 4th, 2023 at 6:27 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
FFS, a British researcher, Andrew Wakefield came up with this absurd claim, but it was shown that all his research was fraudulent.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/

Thats why RFKjr is a loon. Sadly, this idea infected the alternative health world and has never died the death it deserves.

Zhen Li said:
It's ridiculous to suggest that one person is solely responsible and to rely on a single NIH report—they are the primary ones being held to blame, so obviously, they are going to publish this sort of thing. There are hundreds of studies on the topic over several decades now, all of which you no doubt disagree with.

Malcolm wrote:
Really? Hundreds of studies definitively linking vaccines to autism? Rubbish. Show me even one reliable study.


And people who don't believe in needless killing, you forgot that one.
You may not be a Marxist, but you are definitely tankie-adjacent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 4th, 2023 at 2:37 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
people on this thread have even suggested I'm repeating Russian propaganda...

Malcolm wrote:
You've expressed sentiments which are consistent with sentiments put out by RT and tankies, which is surprising, because you abjured tankies a little while ago.


Zhen Li said:
which is a conspiracy theory in and of itself, when my view is pretty much representative of the dissident-left anti-war position.

Malcolm wrote:
RIght, the position of tankies like Aaron Matté, the Grey Zone and other assorted vatniks.

As Orwell observes:

Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, ‘he that is not with me is against me’. The idea that you can somehow remain aloof from and superior to the struggle, while living on food which British sailors have to risk their lives to bring you, is a bourgeois illusion bred of money and security. Mr Savage remarks that ‘according to this type of reasoning, a German or Japanese pacifist would be “objectively pro-British”.’ But of course he would be! That is why pacifist activities are not permitted in those countries (in both of them the penalty is, or can be, beheading) while both the Germans and the Japanese do all they can to encourage the spread of pacifism in British and American territories.
https://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/pacifism/english/e_patw

The same holds true today. This is why Putin and co. are trying as hard as they can to encourage isolationist sentiments among Americans and Europeans, but punish their own citizens when they protest Russia's "special military operation" with long prison sentences.


Zhen Li said:
I am not actually convinced fully by RFK Jr on the causes of autism

Malcolm wrote:
FFS, a British researcher, Andrew Wakefield came up with this absurd claim, but it was shown that all his research was fraudulent.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/

Thats why RFKjr is a loon. Sadly, this idea infected the alternative health world and has never died the death it deserves.

Zhen Li said:
Anyway, as for the question of platform credibility, I don't think anyone has really laid out a proper platform yet for 2024, including RFK Jr. I am interested to see where this leads, but I think the idea that RFK Jr would set out some detailed platform at this point mentioning specific agencies and services is a bit too much to ask—which other candidate has done that?

Malcolm wrote:
Sanders did in 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders_2016_presidential_campaign#Political_positions

Sanders is a serious politician, unlike RFKjr. His campaign platform was very specific and tied to legislations he was trying to pass.

Basically, it appears that you are a one issue voter. You want the US to retreat from the world stage. This will cause untold harm. Europe does not want that, Canada does not want that. Australia, Japan, S. Korea, etc do not want that. Fortunately, sounder people are running our gvt. now and have shored up and expanded alliances TFG tried to ruin. The only people who want the US to retreat from the world stage are dictators and autocrats.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 4th, 2023 at 12:37 AM
Title: Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?
Content:
tingdzin said:
we all know about the Gelukpa subsect that thinks poorly of any but Gelukpa teachings.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, which is why all their whole Vajrayāna practice is Sakya. Even their protector, Dogyal, has its origin in Sakya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 4th, 2023 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Also: https://www.bostonherald.com/2023/07/03/biden-should-watch-rfk-jr-pundits-say-kennedy-will-likely-win-new-hampshire-primary/
There's a route to a Kennedy candidacy, though it's still highly unlikely.

Malcolm wrote:
As for the contention that RFKjr can win in New Hampshire; highly unlilkely:
President Biden holds a strong lead over his long shot 2024 Democratic primary challengers Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Marianne Williamson in New Hampshire, according to a poll released Tuesday.

The survey conducted by St. Anselm College found Biden has 68 percent support among Democratic primary voters in the early-voting state, well ahead of Kennedy, who is polling at 9 percent, and Williamson, at 8 percent.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4071728-biden-opens-up-wide-lead-on-rfk-jr-in-new-hampshire-poll/

You have to remember, I live Massachusetts, 20 miles from New Hampshire, 12 miles from VT. All of Southern New Hampshire, the majority of the population, is inhabited by people from Massachusetts. There is no chance Kennedy wins NH, MA, VT, CT, or RI. He might win the GOP district in Maine, but not the coast.

And, apart from the GOP minority, no one reads the Herald in MA. It's a shit paper.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 4th, 2023 at 12:21 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Bristollad said:
Would Kennedy be a disaster for America? I believe so. He says he accepts climate change but doesn't know if carbon is to blame... that's enough in itself for me to completely discount him. This is the most important crisis the world is currently facing, and he is unclear on the basic science, nevermind having policy ideas to try and mitigate it.

Malcolm wrote:
He is unclear about basic science in its entirety, so it seems. And he thinks climate change is going to create a pretext for all kinds of dystopian outcomes, without realizing climate change is the dystopian outcome future generations are going to to deal with for the next 1000 years, assuming the human race lasts that long.

The real problem with the RFKjr. candidacy is that his platform in many respects seems good, but it begins with a conspiracy theory: that the US Government is against the people.

Secondly, his nod to climate change on his campaign website is "the weather is wacky." This is not a serious climate change mitigation policy. Nor are his ideas about agricultural remediation, which seem to be taken from Joel Salatan books.

His healh care plan seems to hinge on legitimizing quacks like Mercola: "A Kennedy administration will go beyond making existing modalities available to all, to include low-cost alternative and holistic therapies that have been marginalized in a pharma-dominated system." There is a reason most alternative health care is not insurable: they do not produce consistent, measurable outcomes for patients. The basic attitude is fine, there are serious problems with the industrial medicine complex, but sorting healthcare for Americans is not something to be fixed by feelgood "You can see your sound healer and we will pay for it" solutions. And, tellingly, there is no mention of Universal Healthcare in his platform. Healthcare is not something that can be managed well by the market:
Social insurance cannot be applied to only small parts of the workforce because it then naturally leads to adverse selection, a point well illustrated by the endless wrangles over health care coverage in the United States. If it is possible to opt out, anyone who thinks they may not require the insurance (for example, the rich, those unlikely to be unemployed, or healthy people) will do so, since they do not want to subsidize the “others.” A system that relies only on the “others” is unsustainable because of the huge premiums it would require. Thus, the welfare state can work only when it covers all, or almost all, of the labor force or all citizens.

Globalization erodes these requirements. Trade globalization has led, in most Western countries, to a decline in the share of the middle class and its relative income. This has produced income polarization: there are more people at the two ends of the income distribution and fewer around the median. With income polarization, the rich come to realize that they are better off creating their own private systems because sharing a mass system with those who are substantially poorer and face different risks (such as a higher probability of unemployment or of certain diseases) would lead to sizeable income transfers from the rich.

Private systems also provide better quality for the rich (per unit of expense) because they allow savings for the types of risks that the rich do not face. If very few among the rich smoke or are obese, they do not have an incentive to pay for the health care of smokers or obese people. This leads to a system of social separatism, reflected in the growing importance of private health plans, private education, and private pensions. Once these private systems are created, the rich are increasingly unwilling to pay high taxes because they benefit little from them. This in turn leads to erosion of the tax base. The bottom line is that a very unequal, or polarized, society cannot easily maintain an extensive welfare state.
Milanovic, Branko. Capitalism, Alone (pp. 51-52). Harvard University Press. Kindle Edition.

He also unrealistically talks about rebuilding manufacturing in the US. This is highly unrealistic. We have a post-industrial economy. The idea that we can restore an industrial manufacturing base in the US is a pipe dream. Why? The cost of labor is a barrier to manufacture of many goods such as IPhones in the US, etc. This sort of isolationism is naive.

Kennedy also erroneously claims the US dollar's position as the world's reserve currency is threatened. By what? The RMB? Give me a break. The Chinese economy is in rapid decline. They are freaking out because they cannot maintain the 5.5% growth rate they've targeted. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/how-chinas-economic-slowdown-could-hurt-world #

He is also an advocate of the world's great grift in history: cryptocurrency. This shit is just a ponzi scheme. What a fool.

His foreign policy solutions are equally inadequate, in that they are nonexistent. His idea—which of course is stupid in this climate of international uncertainty—is to eviscerate the US armed forces, withdraw from the international security agreements we have made, and defund the military. The oft recited figure of "800" bases ignores the fact that the majority of these "bases" are manned by less than 50 personnel and most of these are manned by less than 20 personnel. Most of the large ones are in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East, and if he thinks those should be dismantled, he should have his head examined.

His platform makes no mention of the State Department. If he were a serious person about foreign policy, he would be running on platform of increasing the number of career foreign service officers and beefing up State, as well as providing more funding for the CIA, NSA, and our other intelligence services.

His civil liberties platform also features a conspiracy theory, "in which Big Tech censors, deplatforms, shadowbans, and algorithmically suppresses any person or opinion the government asks them to." This is laughable bullshit. He is just butt hurt because he traffics in lies and conspiracy theories, and Yahoo, etc. don't want to support his bullshit. He has plenty of outlets where he can spew whatever crap he wants to: Rumble, Telegram, Twitch, etc. "Big Tech" is a number of private companies, and particularly in the light of the (absurd) SCOTUS ruling on websites the other day, they just don't have to give him a platform at all.

He also clearly does not have a firm grasp of the history of pandemics in this country, nor does he understand  vaccination, the need for quarantine in pandemics, etc. The rest of it is just pandering nonsense as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 3rd, 2023 at 9:24 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
I am going to give this topic a rest for now because I'm not seeing any new takes. If someone wants to talk seriously about the candidates without just repeating these cartoonish talking points,

Malcolm wrote:
You mean like your cartoonish talking points about Biden?

BTW, major stutter at 00:57.

https://www.tmz.com/watch/122019-joe-biden-1-4700343-0-t9szixyi/

Zhen Li said:
Mistakes are far from a stutter. By and large, Biden doesn’t stutter, as he has explained. You can find examples of anyone stuttering once or twice in a long stretch of speech, and the recent examples don’t match his description of how he used to stutter as a child.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 3rd, 2023 at 9:15 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 3rd, 2023 at 8:45 AM
Title: Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?
Content:
tingdzin said:
Well (ignoring Malcolm's as usual unnecessarily contentious and dogmatic tone) it depends on what you mean by "institutional lineage". I am not referring to the four or five major "listed" schools, but rather individual teachers within schools. I never heard of Dudjom Rinpoche being concerned with anything but Nyingmapa teachings.

Malcolm wrote:
First, you didn’t specify you were talking about individual teachers. No one could have inferred from your response that you were.

This also assumes that Nyingma teachers are devoid of influences such as Kadampa teachings, Kalacakra,  Mahamudra, etc. In fact, in his major work on Nyingma philosophy, Dudjom Rinpoche advocates gzhan stong, which is specifically not a “nyingma teaching.” More than this, he demonstrated amazing fluency with the full range of Sarma sources.

tingdzin said:
The Ngorpa branch of the Sakyas have (or had) a reputation for insisting on strictly Sakya doctrines,



Malcolm wrote:
The principle Sakya Dharmapalas, the Eight Deity Mahakala, have Nyingma origins, and the Karmanathas, part of this group, have their origin in an 11th century terma. The main texts used for their practice in Sakya was written by Konchog Lhundrup. The main Yidam of Sera is Yangsang Hayagriva, and the main Dharmapala is Rahula.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 3rd, 2023 at 6:17 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
I am going to give this topic a rest for now because I'm not seeing any new takes. If someone wants to talk seriously about the candidates without just repeating these cartoonish talking points,

Malcolm wrote:
You mean like your cartoonish talking points about Biden?

BTW, major stutter at 00:57.

https://www.tmz.com/watch/122019-joe-biden-1-4700343-0-t9szixyi/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 3rd, 2023 at 6:11 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:



Zhen Li said:
Russia is going to be a dictatorship of some form or another, that's not going to change even if Putin is replaced.

Malcolm wrote:
No. Enough Russians have lived outside Russia to understand they do not want to live that way anymore.

Zhen Li said:
As for how a nuclear war could occur, it's more or less by following the approach people like Lindsay Graham are suggesting. Once Russia starts attacking NATO supply lines directly

Malcolm wrote:
Russia is already bombing supply lines—roads, rail lines, and airports—in Ukraine. So i don't know what you are talking about. If Russia attacks a NATO member, then of course this will trigger Article 5.

Zhen Li said:
I know all about the Ukrainian genocide and Holodomor and knew lots of Ukrainians growing up. It was part of what made me give up being a Marxist

Malcolm wrote:
Good. I was never a Marxist, not even close.


Zhen Li said:
I am sure you also know about the history of Nazism in Ukraine,

Malcolm wrote:
You mean Stephen Bandera and other anti-communist Ukrainian nationalists in Western Ukraine? I am quite familiar with the History of German Nazis in Ukraine, and the fact that around 100,000 or Ukrainians collaborated with them, but as Snyder notes, "The majority, probably the vast majority of people who collaborated with the German occupation were not politically motivated. They were collaborating with an occupation that was there, and which is a German historical responsibility."

Zhen Li said:
the recent Russian language ban in Ukraine

Malcolm wrote:
Understandable, given the circumstances.


Zhen Li said:
and the suppression of the orthodox church

Malcolm wrote:
Pereshenko did not suppress the Orthodox Church, he split the church. And more recently, some orthodox churches have proven themselves to be fifth columnists and Russian spies.


Zhen Li said:
and their suspension of elections.

Malcolm wrote:
Perfectly legal. According to the Ukrainian Constitution, parliamentary elections are suspended during times of martial law.

https://zaborona.com/en/parliamentary-elections-will-not-be-held-in-ukraine/

Zhen Li said:
Ukraine as its borders currently exist is largely a result of the German Empire plying it from the grasp of the dying Russian Empire in 1918. For it to have maintained its order in the post-Soviet era, it necessitated a compromised East/West Catholic/Orthodox government that was willing to give and take. Something like Belgium or Switzerland in a way... Well anyway, we'll see how things turn out. I can't do anything about it myself but I think you need a more nuanced view on this and not just the narrative of the day.

Malcolm wrote:
Ukrainians fought a war of independence between 1917-1921. Eventually, their war failed, even with German intervention, and Ukraine was absorbed into the USSR.

For Ukraine to succeed, all that needed to happen was that Russia needed to mind its own damn business and resist the temptation to prevent Ukraine from exercising its' own national prerogative: joining the EU. Which they voted to do, quite legally. The Euromaiden happened precisely because Yakunovich reneged on this aspiration, an aspiration now enshrined in the constitution of Ukraine as of 2019.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 3rd, 2023 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Ridiculous. NATO is purely defensive organization. Russia decided that Ukraine's bid to join the EU was a bit too much for them to stomach. They could not handle the idea of having a Ukrainian democracy, however flawed, on their border because liberal democracy is an existential threat to a tyrant like Putin. Plus, the Russians think Ukrainians are subhuman, and have suppressed their language and culture for centuries.

Zhen Li said:
Okay, this is really simplistic... I know a lot of people believe all this, but I can't believe you accept all this as an intelligent, educated, liberal person.

Malcolm wrote:
I know what I see from Russians in Russia who have bought into the whole Z thing. Of course not all Russians are  fascists, but a sufficient number of them are, going by the large pro-Russian rallies in Germany and so on at the beginning of the war. As to the systematic suppression of Ukrainian culture by Russia, this is well documented, especially in the Holodomor. Anne Applebaum writes:
Yet even while acknowledging the differences, both Poles and Russians also sought at times to undermine or deny the existence of a Ukrainian nation. “The history of Little Russia is like a tributary entering the main river of Russian history,” wrote Vissarion Belinsky, a leading theorist of nineteenth-century Russian nationalism. “Little Russians were always a tribe and never a people and still less—a state.” Russian scholars and bureaucrats treated the Ukrainian language as “a dialect, or half a dialect, or a mode of speech of the all-Russian language, in one word a patois, and as such had no right to an independent existence.”
Applebaum, Anne. Red Famine (p. 3). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

As for the suppression of Ukrainian language:
The Ukrainian language was a primary target. During the Russian empire’s first great educational reform in 1804, Tsar Alexander I permitted some non-Russian languages to be used in the new state schools but not Ukrainian, ostensibly on the grounds that it was not a “language” but rather a dialect.14 In fact, Russian officials were perfectly clear, as their Soviet successors would be, about the political justification for this ban—which lasted until 1917—and the threat that the Ukrainian language posed to the central government. The governor-general of Kyiv, Podolia and Volyn declared in 1881 that using the Ukrainian language and textbooks in schools could lead to its use in higher education and eventually in legislation, the courts and public administration, thus creating “numerous complications and dangerous alterations to the unified Russian state.”
Applebaum, Anne. Red Famine (p. 8). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

You can read the rest yourself.
History shows a powerless Russia is best for everyone, especially Russians.
A stable Russia, with good foreign relations, is essential. If you think a weak and cornered nuclear power is a good idea, you need to stop drinking all that wine you're collecting and spend some more time in retreat.
A stable Russia, at this point in history, is an impossibility for as long as Putin in power. Russia is the very definition of a kleptocracy. It is run by criminal gangs. Russia needs to be isolated and contained until Russia shows it can play well with others. This likely requires a change in regime.

Russia is not cornered at all. They keep playing the nuke card, but they have been doing so for more than two decades, and they know quite well no one survives, despite the nihilistic pronouncements by Russian State Television hosts. If you think that Russia is actually going to use nuclear weapons, then you are mad to think there is any negotiated peace to be had.

There is no scenario where Russia employs even tactical nukes. 1) It would do nothing to halt the advance of UAF. 2) Such a use would be regarded as terrorism since there are no legitimate targets against which Russia could use such a bomb—Ukraine has no nuclear weapons—and would automatically trigger Article 5, since any use of nuclear weapons anywhere on the European continent would be regarded as an attack on NATO.

https://www.cfr.org/article/if-russia-goes-nuclear-three-scenarios-ukraine-war

Putin just made another aggressive adventure. and rather than the world sitting idly by as they did before, he got called out for his blunder. There is no scenario where Ukraine settles for anything less than a complete Russia withdrawal to pre-2014 borders. All deaths in the "Special Military Operation," no matter which side, are blood on Putin's hands and no one else.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 3rd, 2023 at 4:16 AM
Title: Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?
Content:
conebeckham said:
Frankly speaking, all the institutional lineages that currently exist, except, maybe for Bon-- so, Geluk, Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu, Jonang--are already
"mixtures" of different lineages.

tingdzin said:
This is highly debatable.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is not at all debatable. It is factual. Even Bon is not "pure." They cribbed Vajrakilaya from the Nyingmapas and Hevajra and Vajrayogini from the Sakyapas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 3rd, 2023 at 4:13 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:


Zhen Li said:
NATO miscalculated.

Malcolm wrote:
Ridiculous. NATO is purely defensive organization. Russia decided that Ukraine's bid to join the EU was a bit too much for them to stomach. They could not handle the idea of having a Ukrainian democracy, however flawed, on their border because liberal democracy is an existential threat to a tyrant like Putin. Plus, the Russians think Ukrainians are subhuman, and have suppressed their language and culture for centuries.


Zhen Li said:
Obviously, the Russians can't be trusted... But this isn't as simple as you make it out. You need to get beyond the question of blame and think about what is going to guarantee stability and peace. A future where we can maintain a balance of power with Russia is better for both East and West.

Malcolm wrote:
History shows a powerless Russia is best for everyone, especially Russians.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 3rd, 2023 at 3:31 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
A negotiated peace necessary would end the war. The terms would be sorted out in negotiations.

Malcolm wrote:
Ukraine has made it clear, with no pressure from the US, they won't accept any terms but total withdrawal. Really, you people are amazing. When this Russia invaded, everyone thought Ukraine was going to fold in three days. No one reached out to help Ukraine. Biden offered to fly Zelensky out. But he famously said, “The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride.” When Russia began losing, (which was immediately), all of sudden you people decided this was a proxy war initiated by the United States, because we all could not understand that a) how incompetent the Russian Army actually was and b) how much experience the Ukrainians had gained in fighting the initial invasion of Eastern Ukraine in 2014. You bring up Minsk. The Minsk accords were signed with illegitimate insurgents who immediately broke the agreement.

Zhen Li said:
I've said this many times, I am not saying that there is one unilateral aggressor. The real world is far more complicated than that. I could say more about Chamberlain but I don't have time.


Malcolm wrote:
Both Mearsheirmer and Chomsky, two of your go-to informants, both assert the US is primarily to blame for not respecting Russia's desire to keep a buffer between it and NATO. But of course, NATO expanded as a response to Russian aggression, because Russia, then as now, cannot be trusted to respect the sovereignty of its neighbors.

You have also expressed your support for the idea that this is proxy war initiated by the US during the Euromaiden rebellion, but the actual history of events show this to be a false narrative. This narrative has been shown false by, among others, Timothy Snyder in The Road to Unfreedom, as well as the book by https://ua.usembassy.gov/our-relationship/dcml, the foreign service officer you falsely dismissed as a spy. The latter's book is a day by day eyewitness account during the events of the Euromaiden rebellion . Your failure to read it reflects on you, as well as your irresponsible claim he works for the CIA. State and the CIA are totally different organizations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 3rd, 2023 at 12:57 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
I am suggesting a negotiated peace be reached.

PadmaVonSamba said:
If I burn down your house and kill your family and then decide to build a house in your back yard, should we negotiate so that I also don’t kill you? Do we negotiate so you don’t kill me?

Zhen Li said:
Yes, whatever stops the killing. The whole situation is at something of a stalemate, and the rest of Ukraine and its young men face continued destruction so long as the West want it to. Zelensky was elected on the promise of ending the war (which actually started in 2014), and he was pushed into becoming a wartime president by both Putin and the West; they're stuck in the middle of a pitiful great power conflict, and there are no signs of anyone coming out of this any the wiser or better off. Despite that, Ukraine is in quite a strong position at the moment, and it's absolutely not clear that Ukraine will have to yield any territory after rounds of negotiations and peace talks. There is no all-or-nothing ending to this war unless nukes are involved.

Malcolm wrote:
Your advocacy of offensive realism does not hold up, however. One of Mearshiermer's students, John Owen, points out the inconsistencies of Mearshiemer's thesis:
lthough Putin’s invasion of Ukraine certainly is a reaction to NATO expansion, it won’t do to say that the war is therefore the West’s fault. The flaw in the thinking of Mearsheimer, Walt, and other academic realists is that they present an inconsistent view of how international relations works. Mearsheimer, for example, is no more entitled to say that the West caused the war by expanding NATO than he is to say that Russia caused the West to expand NATO by being weak. A fuller explanation for the war takes into account the ideological differences between authoritarian Russia and the democratic West...

Realists generally agree that “international anarchy,” or the absence of a world government to punish aggression and enforce agreements, forces states to take steps to defend themselves. Mearsheimer’s version, called offensive realism, says that the quest for security leads states to expand their power as far as is prudent. A consistent offensive realist argument would have to say that the United States agreed to take more allies in Europe because it could – because Russia was too weak to oppose it. Walt’s version of realism, called balance-of-threat theory, is more complicated: It says that states expand their power when other states become more powerful and display evidence of offensive intent. A consistent balance-of-threat explanation would say that it was a powerful and menacing Russia that produced NATO expansion. Neither version of realism can assign any moral blame to either America or NATO.

But neither Walt nor Mearsheimer applies his own theory to NATO expansion. In fact, both think their theories fail to explain it, and both appeal to a different theory. The United States and its democratic allies, they claim, are captive to liberal ideology, a jumble of ideals and wishful thinking that has propelled them into foolhardy behavior that has provoked a Russian backlash. NATO governments have deluded themselves into seeing their alliance not as the tool of American power that it is, but as a vehicle of freedom and democracy whose eastward march could only be opposed by wicked or paranoid people.

Mearsheimer and Walt have written elsewhere that the United States has been in thrall to the ideology of “liberal hegemony” since 1991. They admit, then, that the United States – the greatest of the world’s great powers, and hence the country that realism should best explain – confronts their own theory with an anomaly three decades long and counting. That is a serious problem for them. Realism also claims that the international system punishes imprudent behavior, meaning that it should discipline America for acting as if it dwells in a liberal utopia. The West, then, should correct course and behave as realism predicts. But the international system has been unaccountably merciful. Judging from the West’s unified support of Ukraine over Russia in the war, it is going to be in thrall to liberal ideology for a while longer.
You can read the rest yourself. Instead what we see is that the international system is punishing Russia for its imprudent behavior. Even China, post-Prighozhin, is now backing away from Russia and openly acknowledging Ukraine's claim to Westphalian Sovereignty. The Ukrainians will not back down. They are an independent people, with their own language, customs and so on. Peace will only come when Russia withdraws to pre-2014 borders.

Zhen Li said:
NATO war or further escalation with either Russia or China or pushing them into further escalation against us is beyond insanity.

Malcolm wrote:
You are improperly identifying the aggressors here. The aggressor is not the US or NATO.

Neville Chamberlain showed that appeasement is not an option.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 2nd, 2023 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Queequeg said:
If you think a neo-liberal US is bad, an entrenched right with populist US will be worse.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, that's what we learned under the former administration. It almost happened here, ala Sinclair Lewis.

Queequeg said:
RFK can only be a spoiler with no hope of ever getting elected.

Malcolm wrote:
Campaign fund raising is the best grift in town these days.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 1st, 2023 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: Two frameworks: a new perspective on Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:



Vajrasvapna said:
You could give a look to the chapter 'Philosophical Distinctions of Mipham's Thought' in 'Mipham’s Beacon of Certainty Illuminating the View of Dzogchen, the Great Perfection', it's the source of this affirmation.

Malcolm wrote:
Care to quote it?

Vajrasvapna said:
No, and in fact, there is much in Dzogchen literature that renders this assertion baseless, and nothing to support it apart from post 17th century syncretic apologetics.
Dzogchen concepts have a clear ground in Yogacara concepts.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no they do not, actually. The whole reason Mañjuśrīmitra wrote his Cultivation of Bodhicitta was to distinguish Dzogchen from Yogacāra. His ultimate argument refuting Yogacāra is this:

Never separate from the momentary location, at that time, they are mutual;
without one, [the other] does not exist.
Traces do not exist  because they are generated by false concepts.
The all-basis does not exist because its experiential sphere does not exist. Also, those cognitions are nonexistent.
If the supporting [traces] and the location do not exist because partiality does not exist, how can consciousness and cognition arise? 
Therefore this mind too is beyond the extremes of existence and nonexistence, and is free from being one or many. 

[Mipham's comment] 

The momentary all-basis that is the location of the traces and the traces themselves are never separate. When one does not exist, it is necessary that the other does not exist. At that time, without one, the other is impossible. Both their existence and nonexistence are mutual. When those traces do not exist, also that all-basis does not exist, like a result without a cause.

If it is asked, “While that may indeed be the case, why do the traces not exist?,” since traces do not correspond with how those entities exist because they are generated by false concepts, the traces do not exist. If the traces do not exist, since the domain of the all-basis is the traces, its experiential range does not exist. Due to its nonexistence, the all-basis does not exist. If the object of clinging does not exist, all those cognitions do not exist because the consciousness will not exist. 

When both the supporting traces do not exist and the all-basis, the location where they exist, does not exist because the partialities do not exist as shown above, how can consciousness and cognition based on those arise? Therefore, not existing in any way, this mind and its mental factors are beyond the extremes of existence and nonexistence, and are free from being one or many.

Further, the commentary in the Soaring Garuda, one of the five early lungs, states:

In order to demonstrate the deviation and obscurations of vijñaptimatra: [7/a]

Delusion and the path of awakening cannot be obtained with concepts.

Because atiyoga is true, undeluded about everything, the vijñāptimatra understanding of things as reflections of delusion and the view attained through that is a conceptual imputation of their own. Due to their not seeing this, Smelting the Gold in the Ore states:

Seeing phenomena as delusion is itself fully understood to be delusional.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 1st, 2023 at 10:07 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Why would a spook betray his own side? It's common knowledge for a reason. His argument just piles so much crap together with a simple emotion-ridden counterclaim with no evidence behind it; it's the textbook example of a strawman and proves nothing. No doubt plenty of Ukrainians opposed Yanakovic, but it was a US coup, like all the others—you may think them justified or not; it's a question of "our bastard" or "their bastard."

Malcolm wrote:
You’ve just demonstrated you actually know nothing about the situation in Ukraine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 1st, 2023 at 9:48 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
We would continue like this forever, and I don't think we will convince each other of anything. You're essentially a Neocon. You claim to support hardcore socialism elsewhere, but you don't actually put your support behind someone who holds your views. You should probably be supporting Cornel West or the CPUSA.

Malcolm wrote:
Um, no. Not a hardcore socialist, a Keynesian perhaps, in so far as I advocate well-regulated capitalism and robust social programs including universal healthcare, free education, etc. With respect to foreign affairs, I’ve come to accept that Western global hegemony has more pluses than negatives. People Trump and Kennedy are too erratic and don’t know how to govern.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 1st, 2023 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Malcolm, your post refutes your claim that he denies climate change exists. So, he has a different solution to the one you would prefer, but that doesn't mean he fits the mould of everyone else you disagree with.

Malcolm wrote:
He has backtracked on carbon. He understands the oil industry is heavily polluting, but to pander to his new base, he now questions whether it causes climate change.

Zhen Li said:
At some point, the continued need for NATO should have disappeared after the Cold War.

Malcolm wrote:
No. It is the one thing in the world that has maintained international stability, and to the extent it was harmed by the former administration, leading to Putin's misjudgment, we need NATO now more than ever.

Zhen Li said:
The US orchestrated the Maidan coup and pushed Russia into a corner,

Malcolm wrote:
Nonsense:

In short, I was frustrated by the constant lies and distortions about the work of US Embassy Kyiv during the 2013–2014 Euromaidan Revolution—and these lies were coming from the Russian state apparatus. Russian government statements and high-volume, confident Russian media invective constantly implored publics worldwide to believe that the US Embassy was the secret but decisive force behind the Ukrainian protest movement, plotting to thwart Russia’s interests in its own backyard in some sort of geopolitical maneuver. Their distorted mirror presented the Ukrainians as pawns, legitimate Russian interests as innocent targets, and the United States as a hostile interloper with motivations somewhere between a satanic jackal and a cartoonish horror movie villain. None of this was true, and it congealed into a foundational lie upon which propagandists built fresh new sedimentary layers of deceit. Today in Russia, the falsehood that the United States had some pivotal role in supporting, funding, or even creating Euromaidan as a cynical maneuver against Russia is treated as established truth beyond question. Stacked on top of this were mistruths about Ukraine being run by “fascists,” separatists in eastern Ukraine being local and organic, and much, much more. But having served there at the time in US Embassy Kyiv, I was shocked to realize that many people worldwide believed these crude propaganda hooks.

Smith, Christopher M.. Ukraine's Revolt, Russia's Revenge (pp. ix-x). Brookings Institution Press. Kindle Edition.

Zhen Li said:
they shouldn't have attacked Ukraine in any case, but there were still clear routes to diplomatic solutions in the past few years. Biden didn't consider that.

Malcolm wrote:
Nonsense. Russia should not have invaded Ukraine in 2014.

Zhen Li said:
And now, on the other hand, relations with China are the worst they've ever been. Peace is the most important thing to preserve in the world, and Biden failed to keep it.

Malcolm wrote:
You are totally out of touch. Our soured relationship with China is the result of the former administration, not Biden.

Zhen Li said:
but I'm allowed to hold dissenting opinions and have some hope, I think.

Malcolm wrote:
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 1st, 2023 at 12:41 AM
Title: Re: Researching Buddhism, One Question
Content:



MagnetSoulSP said:
It's got me scratching my head. I heard that some words might be a bit off because not everything has a direct english translation, which is fair. Like the word for suffering supposedly meaning "unsatisfactoriness" but people tend to not know that, well at least people I know.

So...I gotta ask, is it as bad as all that? I mean this is a Buddhist forum so I'm guessing not but it never hurts to ask.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddha said:

There is suffering everywhere.
Suffering has causes.
Suffering can cease when those causes are correctly identified and removed.
There is path to the cessation of suffering.

That's it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 30th, 2023 at 11:45 PM
Title: Re: Two frameworks: a new perspective on Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:


Kai lord said:
In the original five works of Maitreya

Malcolm wrote:
Source?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 30th, 2023 at 11:39 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kxkxq/... -game-away

This is climate denialism in its essence.

Zhen Li said:
I'm not reading Vice, it's sloppy and unreliable. Just quote me the direct quote of his words or post the video of him saying it.

Malcolm wrote:
You can find the video on Rumble. He is hosting a conference with that quack, Mercola, and the dumb lady who claims covid vaccines make you magnetic.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/rfk-kennedy-anti-vaccine-panel-conspiracies-hiv-spanish-flu-1234779689/

Beyond this, Kennedy's economics are 100% neoliberal, Milton Friedman style free-markets. His solution to climate change is the "free market."

More than this, he has decided that covid and climate change are just excuses lock people down:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 30th, 2023 at 8:40 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
His claim is actually that there is non-definitive evidence that vaccinations induced deaths during the Spanish Flu, not that vaccines caused the flu.

Malcolm wrote:
It was not understood until 1933 that influenza was caused by a virus. Several vaccines were developed for influenza in 1918, but they all targeted the wrong pathogen, a bacteria, Bacillus influenzae.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862332/

Viruses were not really at all well understood until the 1920's, though they were discovered in 1892.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_virology

RFKjr is a dangerous, climate-change denying, conspiracy theory-spreading clown.

Zhen Li said:
Well, I think you have enough facts to see how the reports are twisting his words. He doesn't deny climate change, that's obvious.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, he does.

Zhen Li said:
Kennedy responded that he believes climate change is real, but that he does not believe “carbon” is to blame. He added that climate science is not his strong suit.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kxkxq/robert-f-kennedy-jr-gives-the-game-away

This is climate denialism in its essence.

Zhen Li said:
I really don't think you can compare the danger of Biden to RFK Jr., the former is bringing us to the brink of nuclear holocaust and hardly seems aware of it.

Malcolm wrote:
Get real dude.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 30th, 2023 at 8:11 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
He's a conspiracy theorist.  Beyond vaccines, he thinks that anti-depressants cause school shootings and that covid was a bioweapon.  His own family has disowned him.  There's a reason that QAnon types are calling for a Trump/RFK ticket.

ject said:
Interesting, because every single one of those characters was on medication.

Malcolm wrote:
Evidence?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 30th, 2023 at 6:26 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
His claim is actually that there is non-definitive evidence that vaccinations induced deaths during the Spanish Flu, not that vaccines caused the flu.

Malcolm wrote:
It was not understood until 1933 that influenza was caused by a virus. Several vaccines were developed for influenza in 1918, but they all targeted the wrong pathogen, a bacteria, Bacillus influenzae.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862332/

Viruses were not really at all well understood until the 1920's, though they were discovered in 1892.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_virology

RFKjr is a dangerous, climate-change denying, conspiracy theory-spreading clown.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Yep. an absolute joke and a real testament to the fact that basic scientific literacy is not much of a thing in the US.

The whole claim of censorship is part of building a career as a BS antivaxx/“wellness” whatever influencer, I think his candidacy is more about that, building a media/social media career.

They yell censorship , it’s part of the business plan.

Malcolm wrote:
Running for office is the best grift there is because of the absurd absence of campaign finance restrictions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 30th, 2023 at 6:20 AM
Title: Re: Rushen retreat reading list
Content:
merilingpa said:
I think you cannot go beyond "The Precious Vase". It is needed all along the path until the path is finished.

Malcolm wrote:
A path needs a base. That is why it is called "the base of Santi Mahāsangha."

jet.urgyen said:
thought it is the base knowledge of the 9 sms levels. isn't so?

this 9 afaik comes from nubchen sangye, further levels exposes the atiyana?


Malcolm wrote:
The Precious Vase is about discovering our primordial state, the base, or basis. That’s why semzins abd rushans are discussed in it, as well as the essence of sems sde. The reality is that if one applies in a proper way the instructions in the Precious Vase, one doesn’t need to follow the rest of SMS.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 30th, 2023 at 4:18 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
His claim is actually that there is non-definitive evidence that vaccinations induced deaths during the Spanish Flu, not that vaccines caused the flu.

Malcolm wrote:
It was not understood until 1933 that influenza was caused by a virus. Several vaccines were developed for influenza in 1918, but they all targeted the wrong pathogen, a bacteria, Bacillus influenzae.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862332/

Viruses were not really at all well understood until the 1920's, though they were discovered in 1892.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_virology

RFKjr is a dangerous, climate-change denying, conspiracy theory-spreading clown.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 29th, 2023 at 11:06 PM
Title: Re: Rushen retreat reading list
Content:
merilingpa said:
I think you cannot go beyond "The Precious Vase". It is needed all along the path until the path is finished.

Malcolm wrote:
A path needs a base. That is why it is called "the base of Santi Mahāsangha."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 29th, 2023 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:
yagmort said:
can i still practice it ? shoud i have requested something else without pranayama requirement?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.

No.

Tata1 said:
Malcom is there somewhere i can read the general outline of chetsun?
I will receive this in a few months and im curious

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, speaking, the main point of the CN is a guru yoga of Vimalamitra, and the main approach is guru yoga.

Otherwise, in addition to the seven lojongs, it has refuge, bodhicitta, Vajrasattva, Mandala, and Guru Yoga. It also has anuyoga style creation and completion as well, in addition, it has rushen, trekcho, and thogal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 29th, 2023 at 9:59 PM
Title: Re: Rushen retreat reading list
Content:
jet.urgyen said:
The vase is for people that isn't grounded, that need to hold ideas to do or leave something.

Malcolm wrote:
The Precious Vase is primarily a commentary on Rongzom's commentary on Padmasambhava's Rosary of Intimate Instructions. ChNN stated many times every one of his students should study the Precious Vase. Next, I suppose you are going to inform us that the level 1 SMS is for people who need "to do or leave something" too.

jet.urgyen said:
If one isn't grounded it is useful to study it, maybe some meaning gets realized. or if one wants to teach, definitely yes, one should dominate, master, the teaching's structure, the details, and so forth.

By not grounded i mean people who still doesn't integrate the meanings the seven lojongs. I found this are sufficient for me,  practical.

Idk, does this make a bad student?

Malcolm wrote:
It is useful to study it because it explains the whole path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 29th, 2023 at 9:56 PM
Title: Re: nasal breathing and nyingthig cycles
Content:
yagmort said:
can i still practice it ? shoud i have requested something else without pranayama requirement?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.

No.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 29th, 2023 at 9:00 AM
Title: Re: Rushen retreat reading list
Content:
jet.urgyen said:
The vase is for people that isn't grounded, that need to hold ideas to do or leave something.

Malcolm wrote:
The Precious Vase is primarily a commentary on Rongzom's commentary on Padmasambhava's Rosary of Intimate Instructions. ChNN stated many times every one of his students should study the Precious Vase. Next, I suppose you are going to inform us that the level 1 SMS is for people who need "to do or leave something" too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 29th, 2023 at 1:51 AM
Title: Re: Intrusive Thoughts as Deeds of Māras
Content:


Zhen Li said:
Of course, but considering deva lifespans, it's probably still the same guy.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, not if the Buddha liberated him.

It's important to keep in that māra is related to mārana death, and the four māras are all causes of death.

Zhen Li said:
I suppose there are different ways of thinking about what a māra deva is, so from one point of view, a converted māra is no longer a māra. The Mahāsaṃnipāta has an episode where there's an entire world filled with converted māras, all of whom practice the Dharma and who convert Pāpīyān Māra. The Nirvana and Vimalakirti sutras have similar themes. At a certain point, it appears to be considered the default that Māra is a redeemed Mahāyanist... I have in my possession the book Malleable Mara by Michael Nichols but have not yet read it—it may have something interesting to say about this.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure and the Surangama-Samadhi sutra has an episode where Māra is tricked into taking bodhisattva vows.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 29th, 2023 at 1:12 AM
Title: Re: Intrusive Thoughts as Deeds of Māras
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Devas are positions, not persons. In this case, Kamadeva, the devaputra māra, is the chief deva of the desire realm. But this does not mean he is always the same person.
Of course, but considering deva lifespans, it's probably still the same guy.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, not if the Buddha liberated him.

It's important to keep in that māra is related to mārana death, and the four māras are all causes of death.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 29th, 2023 at 12:39 AM
Title: Re: Two frameworks: a new perspective on Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yogacara does not say much about buddhanature at all.

tingdzin said:
It is probable that the Buddhanature trend in Buddhist thought had different origins than those of Yogacara.

Malcolm wrote:
Not probably; quite certainly. If we accept that the Uttaratantra was composed by Maitreyanātha, then it would seem he composed four texts devoted to the three main streams of Indian Mahāyāna and then systematized them in the Sūtrālaṃkāra.

tingdzin said:
Some attempts have been made to lump them together philosophically.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, poorly. It's called "gzhan stong."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 29th, 2023 at 12:35 AM
Title: Re: Intrusive Thoughts as Deeds of Māras
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Papayin Mara is Kamadeva.

Zhen Li said:
According to many sūtras, Pāpīyān Māra and his army were quite conclusively converted to protect the Dharma. If there was such a being, it seems like he's no longer a threat, but in the Mahāsaṃnipāta, it talks about how there are still plenty of other māras around.

Malcolm wrote:
Devas are positions, not persons. In this case, Kamadeva, the devaputra māra, is the chief deva of the desire realm. But this does not mean he is always the same person.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 28th, 2023 at 11:45 PM
Title: Re: Intrusive Thoughts as Deeds of Māras
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Papayin Mara is Kamadeva.

Zhen Li said:
The Perfection of Wisdom literature often uses some variation on the phrase "māraḥ pāpīyān avatāraṃ na labhate" (Pāpīyān Māra does not obtain entry) in reference to overcoming Māra's deeds. Phrasing along the lines of "avatāraṃ na labhate" is used elsewhere in reference to other devas. This is used in the context of someone practicing the Dharma suddenly having thoughts of abandoning it, or otherwise being disturbed during practice with fiendish ideas. Chapter 11 of the Aṣṭasāhasrikā, for example, suggests that when a bodhisattva is practising the copying of the Perfection of Wisdom, Māra will come and make him think of all sorts of distracting things, sorrows, troubles, about themselves, hateful, greedy, ignorant thoughts, etc. While "Mārakarma" (deeds of māras) also refers to misunderstandings of the Perfection of Wisdom or Dharma (and one can take this figuratively), it also refers to these kinds of thoughts inserted (entered) into the minds of a practitioner.

This sounds a lot like the experience of intrusive thoughts, so I posted this topic in the "wellness" forum since this does fit into the category of mental wellness. Lee Baer's The Imp of the Mind defines this as follows (as paraphrased on Wiki): "Intrusive thoughts, urges, and images are of inappropriate things at inappropriate times, and generally have aggressive, sexual, or blasphemous themes." Baer says in Chapter 7 of his book that with religious people, this appears to be associated with an OCD closely linked to fear about blasphemy and damnation—St. Ignatius, for instance, was extremely obsessive about committing minor blasphemies such as stepping on straw in fear that it might be in the form of a cross, and also experienced severe cases of intrusive thoughts. It doesn't seem to be the case (as I suspected) that Christians identify the phenomenon as demons or other spirits, however Fred Penzel (on Wiki) suggests that "thoughts of being possessed" are among common intrusive thoughts among the religious. That is of course entirely different from what the Aṣṭa is suggesting: it is not that the person's thought that "Māra is gaining entry to my mind" is the intrusive thought, but that one has intrusive thoughts, and this is interpreted as something caused by Māra (or māras). I think the Buddhist case here might be describing a unique interpretation.

I discussed this with Dharma friends and most of them also said that they experienced some form of "non-Dharmic" unwanted thought that disrupts their practice. Even as a kind of management strategy, I personally found acknowledging that such thoughts are not "mine" (whether or not they are inserted by another being, Buddhist thought holds that to be true) helps significantly in ignoring them and getting back to practice. In a group of about eight, only one was surprised that we would have such thoughts during a Dharma service or practice—so this phenomenon might be more common than might be expected. I think a poll is appropriate to get some sense of whether other Buddhist practitioners have experienced this phenomenon.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 28th, 2023 at 8:32 PM
Title: Re: Two frameworks: a new perspective on Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:


Vajrasvapna said:
Yogacara's framework on trisvabhāva (three natures) is an explanation in a phenomenological context, not an ontological one. It does not claim that the Buddha nature is a conditioned reality, but rather the timeless continuum of enlightened experience.

Malcolm wrote:
Yogacara does not say much about buddhanature at all.

Vajrasvapna said:
This aligns...the enlightened experiences of practices such as Tögal....

Malcolm wrote:
No, and in fact, there is much in Dzogchen literature that renders this assertion baseless, and nothing to support it apart from post 17th century syncretic apologetics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 28th, 2023 at 8:23 PM
Title: Re: Drenpa's Proclamation, the Rise and Decline of the Bön Religion in Tibet by Per Kvaerne and Dan Martin
Content:
Archie2009 said:
Drenpa's Proclamation, the Rise and Decline of the Bön Religion in Tibet by Per Kvaerne and Dan Martin.

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely. It is part of ZZNG.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 28th, 2023 at 7:31 PM
Title: Re: Asanga about universes in Abhidharmasamuccaya
Content:
Aemilius said:
Asanga says that in a universe or a trichiliocosm of 1000 000 000 worlds all the worlds develop, exist and devolve at the same time. And he continues:

"Just as round drops of rain fall constantly and uninterruptedly from the sky, so equally in the Eastern direction, constantly and uninterruptedly, an infinite number of universes will devolve or evolve, devolve or remain devolved, evolve or remain evolved. Just as it is in the Eastern direction, so it is in all the ten directions."

on page 83 in
Abhidharma Samuccaya: The Compendium of the Higher Teaching by Asanga,
Sara Boin-Webb & Walpola Rahula (Translators)

Malcolm wrote:
It doesn't mean all at the same time. Why? In a rainstorm, not all drops are falling at the same time.

Aemilius said:
I also understood it that way. That distant world systems are in different phases of evolution, remaining, devolution and emptiness.  And that they are numerous like drops of water in a falling rain.

Malcolm wrote:
Ok.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 28th, 2023 at 2:58 AM
Title: Re: Ukraine News
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 28th, 2023 at 1:00 AM
Title: Re: Longchenpa's Extant Praises
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Then they were never worldly-devas to begin with, but emanations of Buddhas emanated in order to ‘tame’ sentient beings who didn’t/don’t have the capacity to follow higher Yanas; it seems.

Malcolm wrote:
That's the general idea.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 28th, 2023 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?
Content:
Lingpupa said:
I began last century with Kagyu teachers, admittedly very open-minded ones, but later moved across to become thoroughly Nyingmified. As time went on I realized more and more how different they are in flavour and in detail if not in overall drift. So yes, you can happily eat a Marmite sandwich, you can happily eat ice-cream with bitter cherries in syrup. But probably not at the same time.

heart said:
Interestingly I and so many I know went the same way, from Kagyu to Nyingma.

Malcolm wrote:
Sakyas -->  Nyingma
Kagyus --> Nyingma
Gelug -->   Kagyu
Nyingmas --> Bon


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 27th, 2023 at 11:59 PM
Title: Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?
Content:
FieldBob said:
For every person there is a different answer.

One answer I got recently was you can attend any empowerment, transmission, or lung teaching online or in person no matter what lineage but for daily practise stick to one lineage and dont mix different practises from different lineages.

What is your view on this?

Malcolm wrote:
I don't know what other people do. For me, Dzogchen is sufficient

Tata1 said:
Do you still practice your sakya stuff from time to time?

Malcolm wrote:
I still do Sakya translations for Khenpo Migmar. But is not my main area of interest or practice. My focus is Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 27th, 2023 at 10:54 PM
Title: Re: Asanga about universes in Abhidharmasamuccaya
Content:
Aemilius said:
Asanga says that in a universe or a trichiliocosm of 1000 000 000 worlds all the worlds develop, exist and devolve at the same time. And he continues:

"Just as round drops of rain fall constantly and uninterruptedly from the sky, so equally in the Eastern direction, constantly and uninterruptedly, an infinite number of universes will devolve or evolve, devolve or remain devolved, evolve or remain evolved. Just as it is in the Eastern direction, so it is in all the ten directions."

on page 83 in
Abhidharma Samuccaya: The Compendium of the Higher Teaching by Asanga,
Sara Boin-Webb & Walpola Rahula (Translators)

Malcolm wrote:
It doesn't mean all at the same time. Why? In a rainstorm, not all drops are falling at the same time.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 27th, 2023 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Instantaneous death and the Bardo
Content:


Moha said:
This was my assumption as well. I guess the root of my question is, how good of a practitioner do you have to be to have even a semblance of awareness that you're suddenly not alive, in that scenario.

Malcolm wrote:
You'll figure it out pretty rapidly.

Moha said:
I guess you will skip the bardo of dying and dharmata...

Malcolm wrote:
Bardo of dying, yes, but not necessarily the bardo of dharmatā.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 27th, 2023 at 7:54 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
OB1 said:
I think you guys are missing me.

I'm presently thinking that we should just do away with psychology altogether in dharma communities. Psychological diagnosis mostly functions as prejudices anyway. I found that my clinical work got way better once I stopped the internal psychological narrative about my patients. Putting people in clinical boxes tends to work against wisdom and compassion.
Would anyone else here like to wave a magic wand and make all psychological talk go away?

How about just working at the level of behavior? Stalking, pedophilia, etc is not allowed. Oops, pedophilia is a psychological term, isn't it. Not so easy.

Malcolm wrote:
Or we could talk about the three poisons, mental factors, etc., what some might term "Buddhist" psychology. But in order to observe these things, we have to be relatively free from any pathological conditions which interfere with our ability to observe our own minds.

OB1 said:
Really? I would say the opposite. There is no psychopathology that prevents you from observing your mind.

Malcolm wrote:
Ok. You say the opposite. What’s the point of repeating our conversation?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 27th, 2023 at 6:27 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
OB1 said:
I think you guys are missing me.

I'm presently thinking that we should just do away with psychology altogether in dharma communities. Psychological diagnosis mostly functions as prejudices anyway. I found that my clinical work got way better once I stopped the internal psychological narrative about my patients. Putting people in clinical boxes tends to work against wisdom and compassion.
Would anyone else here like to wave a magic wand and make all psychological talk go away?

How about just working at the level of behavior? Stalking, pedophilia, etc is not allowed. Oops, pedophilia is a psychological term, isn't it. Not so easy.

Malcolm wrote:
Or we could talk about the three poisons, mental factors, etc., what some might term "Buddhist" psychology. But in order to observe these things, we have to be relatively free from any pathological conditions which interfere with our ability to observe our own minds.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 27th, 2023 at 1:30 AM
Title: FDA creates path for psychedelic drug trials
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.axios.com/2023/06/26/fda-guidance-psychedelic-drugs-lsd-mushrooms

Unknown said:
Federal regulators are laying out guidance for psychedelic drug trials for the first time, in a move that could encourage the mainstreaming of substances like magic mushrooms and LSD as behavioral health treatments.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 27th, 2023 at 12:37 AM
Title: Re: Magicians...
Content:
Aemilius said:
You can't really guarantee that all the tricks done by David Copperfied of David Blaine and others are scientifically explainable.



Malcolm wrote:
Never change Aemilius, you're too entertaining.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 27th, 2023 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:



Zoey85 said:
Feel free to stop complaining and introduce a helpful topic...

Though actually these topics on psychology and on teachers' behaviors *are* helpful and important, so I'm a bit surprised why you feel the need to devalue them. Not only are they not dead horses, they haven't even begun to be sufficiently investigated.

PeterC said:
I see you’re new around here

Zoey85 said:
New around here (DW), not new to these issues in Dharma circles/centers that have yet to be solved in the slightest, for the most part. Calling these issues a dead horse is basically saying they're not worth your time anymore, which seems sad. These things can be fixed, but not if we just stop addressing them through discussion. But hooefully you were just venting...


Malcolm wrote:
Peter is just listing issues that take rebirth here for the past 15 years, with the same players making the same points, over and over again, kind of like Valhalla.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 11:22 PM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
PeterC said:
Now onto rangtong/shentong.  I’m worried about where this discussion might go next…vegetarianism? Supposed “Hindu” origins of vajryana?  Any other dead horses we can flog again?


Sādhaka said:
Hm, how about on if Ngondro accumulations are an complete necessity.

PeterC said:
Perhaps we could follow that up with whether you can practice Dzogchen through a yidam sadhana?

Malcolm wrote:
To be concluded with Dzogchen is its own yāna, which does not contain creation or completion stage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 6:18 AM
Title: Re: Lama Lena feat. Garchen Rinpoche: Dorje Phurba
Content:
justsit said:
"This woman" or "that woman"  can be disparaging depending on context and tone of voice. We obviously have no tone available for the written word here,

Malcolm wrote:
Or it could just be a nothing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 4:03 AM
Title: Re: China’s Building a Massive Number of New Coal Plants
Content:
ject said:
Why? Because almost everything you use, own and enjoy is made from oil and/or gas - plastics, paints, rubbers, fabrics... you name it.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, which is why it is stupid to burn so much of it. It won't last forever.

ject said:
That nice computer you used to type up that message, is mostly oil and gas, so to say. So are the clothes on your back and those nice veggies we all love so much - broccoli pasta with anchovies for example - would be unaffordable with out all the lovely fertilizers "made" from gas and oil.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, that's true because of corporate socialism. The subsidies energy companies get to produce natural gas and oil are appalling:

Globally, fossil fuel subsidies are were $5.9 trillion or 6.8 percent of GDP in 2020 and are expected to increase to 7.4 percent of GDP in 2025 as the share of fuel consumption in emerging markets (where price gaps are generally larger) continues to climb. Just 8 percent of the 2020 subsidy reflects undercharging for supply costs (explicit subsidies) and 92 percent for undercharging for environmental costs and foregone consumption taxes (implicit subsidies).

https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/climate-change/energy-subsidies

2017 numbers for the US:

These were dominated by subsidies to fossil fuels, which account for around 70% (USD 447 billion) of the total. Subsidies to renewable power generation technologies account for around 20 % of total energy sector subsidies (USD 128 billion), biofuels for about 6 % (USD 38 billion) and nuclear for at least 3 % (USD 21 billion)...

Subsidies to petroleum products dominated the total, at USD 220 billion, followed by electricity-based support to fossil fuels at USD 128 billion. Subsidies to natural gas and coal in 2017 were estimated to be USD 82 billion and USD 17 billion, respectively.

https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Publication/2020/Apr/IRENA_Energy_subsidies_2020.pdf

So basically, US subsidies are about 20 percent of the total global outlay of government subsidies for oil and gas.

Then there agriculture subsidies. In 2021, the federal government provided farms with $28.5 billion in subsidies, or direct farm program payments. That, combined with exploitation of migrant labor, keeps our food cheap.

So its socialism all the way down until you get to the consumer, then it is profit all the way up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 3:46 AM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:
heart said:
Sing it in English then, translation in the Song of the Vajra book.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a big mistake.

It's not a "song" in that sense.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 3:39 AM
Title: Re: Lama Lena feat. Garchen Rinpoche: Dorje Phurba
Content:



Dawa Ösel said:
Thought the same...

Malcolm wrote:
Not seeing the problem, and it's a legit question.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Because if it was:
‘Lama____ featuring Garchen Rinpoche’
and Lama____ was a male,
would the question be asked:
“how does the event with this man
feature Garchen Rinpoche”
or would the question be:
“how does the event with this lama
feature Garchen Rinpoche?”

What is questioned is whether
a double standard is being used.

Malcolm wrote:
I am not the author of the statement, and I still don't see a problem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 12:42 AM
Title: Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?
Content:
FieldBob said:
For every person there is a different answer.

One answer I got recently was you can attend any empowerment, transmission, or lung teaching online or in person no matter what lineage but for daily practise stick to one lineage and dont mix different practises from different lineages.

What is your view on this?

Malcolm wrote:
I don't know what other people do. For me, Dzogchen is sufficient


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: China’s Building a Massive Number of New Coal Plants
Content:


ject said:
Have you researched the 'Nuclear is bad' saga in Germany?

It actually starts in 70's, then later, the "green" activists get tricked into "nuclear bad" mania.

Malcolm wrote:
Nuclear is undesirable: Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, etc. There is no safe disposal of spent uranium.

Uranium mining is terrible.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3653646/#:~:text=Uranium%20mining%20has%20widespread%20effects,nuclear%20power%20and%20nuclear%20weapons.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK201047/

ject said:
Here are the numbers (you could find in 5 seconds) deaths per 1,000 TWh:

Coal - 100,000
Oil - 36,000
Natural Gas - 4,000
Hydro - 1,400
Solar - 440
Wind - 150
Nuclear - 90

Nuclear includes Chernobyl and Fukushima etc.

Malcolm wrote:
And were there more nuclear power plants, you would find higher numbers. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

For examnple, a 2010 study by the NAS was abandoned after it was deemed too expensive.

https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/bg-analys-cancer-risk-study.html

However, there is this:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ijc.31116

While the study does not show causation, it does show correlation.

However, there some evidence of an uptick in thyroid cancer following Fukushima:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28954584/#:~:text=The%20large%2Dscale%20ultrasound%20screening,cohort%20of%20approximately%20300%2C000%20subjects.

Chernobyl cancer estimates:

https://blog.ucsusa.org/lisbeth-gronlund/how-many-cancers-did-chernobyl-really-cause-updated/#:~:text=figures%20above%3A%20at%2017%2C000%20thyroid,80%25%20of%20the%20lifetime%20dose.

You might consider these numbers less than compelling, given the number of deaths from burning hydrocarbons, one in five:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/c-change/news/fossil-fuel-air-pollution-responsible-for-1-in-5-deaths-worldwide/

But nuclear power plants are expensive: https://thebulletin.org/2019/06/why-nuclear-power-plants-cost-so-much-and-what-can-be-done-about-it/

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/11132930/nuclear-power-costs-us-france-korea

Wind and solar are much less expensive.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: Lama Lena feat. Garchen Rinpoche: Dorje Phurba
Content:



Dawa Ösel said:
Thought the same...

Malcolm wrote:
Not seeing the problem, and it's a legit question.

Tata1 said:
Its a legit question. Its prhased weird. But ppl here enjoy being randomly edgy

Malcolm wrote:
Or English is their second language...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: Lama Lena feat. Garchen Rinpoche: Dorje Phurba
Content:
Toenail said:
How does the event with this woman feature Garchen Rinpoche?

Tata1 said:
"This woman"

Dawa Ösel said:
Thought the same...

Malcolm wrote:
Not seeing the problem, and it's a legit question.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 10:14 PM
Title: Re: China’s Building a Massive Number of New Coal Plants
Content:


ject said:
Have you researched the 'Nuclear is bad' saga in Germany?

It actually starts in 70's, then later, the "green" activists get tricked into "nuclear bad" mania.

Malcolm wrote:
Nuclear is undesirable: Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, etc. There is no safe disposal of spent uranium.

Uranium mining is terrible.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3653646/#:~:text=Uranium%20mining%20has%20widespread%20effects,nuclear%20power%20and%20nuclear%20weapons.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK201047/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 8:52 PM
Title: Re: Ukraine News
Content:
Moha said:
What are the odds it was some type of false flag / psy-op by Putin?

Malcolm wrote:
Slim to none.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 7:26 PM
Title: Re: About nuclear weapons
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The US has 100 or so warheads in Europe, in storage, not armed, nor mounted on any delivery system.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 4:59 AM
Title: Re: Longchen Nyingtig opportunity
Content:


Tata1 said:
Sounds pretty bad.
Thank you joe. Its good to hear first person accounts.


Malcolm wrote:
Not mention the fact that one time, I was hanging out with Norbu Rinpoche in his cabin in 2002. Choga had sent ChNN his "Dzogchen" flag as well as his book to CHNN. RInpoche pointed to it, and said, "This flag is not a real Buddhist flag, this is the modern way, this is politics. The real Buddhist flag is the rgyal mtshan. Also this other Buddhist flag (the one designed by Olcott), this is also not real. Just politics."

The real Buddhist flag:


Victory_Banner.jpg (7.28 KiB) Viewed 1117 times


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 4:49 AM
Title: Re: Longchen Nyingtig opportunity
Content:
Zoey85 said:
Lama with a personality disorder

Malcolm wrote:
Sadly, there are too many of these running around. And for too long has their behavior been dismissed by the gaslit with excuses such as, "Tilopa," "Marpa," "Do Khyentse," etc.

Caveat emptor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 2:31 AM
Title: Re: Ukraine News
Content:
Knotty Veneer said:
I wonder what they offered Prigozhin to go back. I read elsewhere that the Russian military command has offered to resign supposedly.

Prigozhin must know Putin will kill him first chance he gets.

Malcolm wrote:
Something seems off. Doesn't make sense.

Meanwhile, Ukraine makes major advances.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 1:42 AM
Title: Re: Ukraine News
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 1:38 AM
Title: Re: Longchen Nyingtig opportunity
Content:



Tata1 said:
How? Dont know the guy but i feel that if we say stuff like this we have to back it up a minimum.


Malcolm wrote:
https://www.thebuddhapath.org/dzogchen-lineage/authorized-teachers/bodhi-lamas/

And in case you forgot:

https://kval.com/news/local/an-awakening-woman-claims-she-was-raped-at-local-buddhist-center

Tata1 said:
I knew about the alegations but the website is new to me. Even tho its creepy i dont know much about it. If anyone has more info about cultish behaviour feel free to pm me so i can know more about it. Thanks

Malcolm wrote:
There are folks here who can fill you in. I leave it to them to describe their personal encounters with Choga's disciples, if they so choose.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 1:26 AM
Title: Re: Longchen Nyingtig opportunity
Content:



heart said:
He is an amazing scholar, I took teachings from him long time ago and was very impressed. But you can do whatever you want.

Malcolm wrote:
He runs a cult.

Tata1 said:
How? Dont know the guy but i feel that if we say stuff like this we have to back it up a minimum.


Malcolm wrote:
https://www.thebuddhapath.org/dzogchen-lineage/authorized-teachers/bodhi-lamas/

And in case you forgot:

https://kval.com/news/local/an-awakening-woman-claims-she-was-raped-at-local-buddhist-center


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 1:19 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
OB1 said:
The Valid Cognition literature coming from Dignaga defines 7 types of valid direct perception: the 5 sense direct perceptions involving sense organs, mental direct perception and yogic direct perception (related to powers stemming from clairvoyance, etc.). I assumed that the phrase "direct perception of emptiness" refers to mental direct perception. But I think you are right, and that it does not.

Malcolm wrote:
These all possess objects, no?

Appearances can not be found, on analysis. So we term them “clearly apparent nonexistents.”

Delusion has two levels: delusion about appearances and essences.

Generally, we are working with the delusion about essences, whether appearances exist according to any of the four extremes.

In order to work with the delusion about essences, first we must remove delusion about appearances.

OB1 said:
"These all possess objects, no?"
Possing objects implies a conceptual consciousness.

Malcolm wrote:
No.

OB1 said:
The sense direct perceivers are defined as non-conceptual, fresh, incontrovertible perceivers ( ex. the red sphere of a stop light).

Malcolm wrote:
But they still have objects.

I gather from you though that the Ati literature says that sutra schools are wrong and the first moment of perceiving the red of a stop light is a conceptual consciousness.

The perception of redness of a stop light is not conceptual, nevertheless, it has an object, otherwise there could be no direct perception at all.

"Appearances cannot be found, on analysis. So we term them “clearly apparent nonexistents.” "

I love this term. I just learned it a week ago and it seems to help my practice. It sounds so rang tong with the non-finding under analysis language. Do you consider rang tong to be correct? Or, are rang tong and shen tong extremes to be discarded?

I have written extensively on this site about my opinion ove the so-called rang stong/gzhan stong debate. It's a nondebate. "Rang stong" is a gshan stong straw man. There is no such thing as "rang stong."

OB1 said:
"Delusion has two levels: delusion about appearances and essences."

Are essences inherent existence? If so,  the meaning of inherent existence is completely different from the Madhyamaka definition which is, "existence from its own side" , svabhava.

Malcolm wrote:
What I am saying is that a person with ordinary, nondeluded faculties regarding conventional objects, such as the moon, may still be mistaken about the actual nature of the moon. A person with deluded faculties, for example, from intoxication, who sees the appearance of two moons, first must remove their delusion about appearance of two moons, before they can appreciate the true nature of the moon.


OB1 said:
"Generally, we are working with the delusion about essences, whether appearances exist according to any of the four extremes."

"In order to work with the delusion about essences, first we must remove delusion about appearances."

I find thinking about this stuff to be purifying of my dull mind. Let's say that it's prajna that is at work.
Is my dull mind an appearance?

Malcolm wrote:
Any mental image is an "appearance," whether it is a physical or a mental appearance. We do make a distinction in Dzogchen between appearances and apparent objects. You can take my Wisdom Academy course, I will discuss this in some detail.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 25th, 2023 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: Ukraine News
Content:
rai said:
does it mean it will be even more unrest in europe and the world or is this Prighozin a peace loving fella?

Malcolm wrote:
He is a butcher, but with Russia occupied with itself, there will be time for NATO to recalibrate and solidify its borders with Russia, etc.

And now this:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 24th, 2023 at 8:31 PM
Title: Re: Ukraine News
Content:
PeterC said:
Do we seriously believe that the main military contractor and a long-term ally of putin is staging a coup?  It does sound a little improbable

Malcolm wrote:
Yup. Who else would be better positioned?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 24th, 2023 at 10:09 AM
Title: Re: Longchen Nyingtig opportunity
Content:
Shaiksha said:
Bear in mind, we all deserve the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

Malcolm wrote:
That applies to courts, but not public opinion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 24th, 2023 at 6:44 AM
Title: Re: Ukraine News
Content:
Kai lord said:
https://tass.com/russia/1637425


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 24th, 2023 at 6:00 AM
Title: Re: Longchen Nyingtig opportunity
Content:
heart said:
But you can do whatever you want.

yagmort said:
Magnus just be sure if i disagree with you it doesn't mean i don't respect you or disregard your opinion. we just run on the different modes of discernmet.

heart said:
No problems, I just feel it would be strange to don't mention my personal experience. You all seem so sure about who is a good lama and who isn't and on your list of lamas that you find bad there are some that really changed my life. Go figure.

Malcolm wrote:
Corrupt people don’t start that way, but when they achieve positions of power, they can’t resist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 24th, 2023 at 5:52 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
OB1 said:
The Valid Cognition literature coming from Dignaga defines 7 types of valid direct perception: the 5 sense direct perceptions involving sense organs, mental direct perception and yogic direct perception (related to powers stemming from clairvoyance, etc.). I assumed that the phrase "direct perception of emptiness" refers to mental direct perception. But I think you are right, and that it does not.

Malcolm wrote:
These all possess objects, no?

Appearances can not be found, on analysis. So we term them “clearly apparent nonexistents.”

Delusion has two levels: delusion about appearances and essences.

Generally, we are working with the delusion about essences, whether appearances exist according to any of the four extremes.

In order to work with the delusion about essences, first we must remove delusion about appearances.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 24th, 2023 at 12:46 AM
Title: Re: Longchen Nyingtig opportunity
Content:
yagmort said:
i don't know why would Namkhai Nyingpo Rinpoche took up the request from such a guy? it's as confusing as Minling Khenchen Rinpoche's letter of support for  Buddha Dorjechang III..

to me Choga is yet another wannabe cult leader. "Twelfth Level Dzogchen Buddha Path Dharma Teachers"? "Principal Guru Vidyadharas", "Apprentice Guru Vidyadharas" https://www.thebuddhapath.org/dzogchen-lineage/authorized-teachers/bodhi-lamas/ thats just preposterous.


and recent Choga rape allegiation doesn't make things any more attractive

heart said:
He is an amazing scholar, I took teachings from him long time ago and was very impressed. But you can do whatever you want.

Malcolm wrote:
He runs a cult.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 23rd, 2023 at 10:53 PM
Title: Re: Longchen Nyingtig opportunity
Content:
yagmort said:
also, this Ngagyur Dzogchen Shri Singha buddhist college of Nepal turned out to be the organisation of Dzogchen Khenpo Choga Rinpoche. i don't feel anything good about this Choga guy.

heart said:
You are not taking the empowerment from him but from Namkhai Nyingpo Rinpoche, a close disciple to Dilgo Khyentse.

Malcolm wrote:
I think Namkhai Nyingpo is a very nice master, but I wouldn't go, knowing this. If he were giving this anywhere else, different story.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 23rd, 2023 at 10:46 PM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
OB1 said:
Well in that case, Dzongkapa and his followers have unwarranted assumptions....

Malcolm wrote:
Some people do argue this.

My entire argument hinges on Dzongkapa's view of the impossibility of validly ascertaining the object of negation prior to having a direct perception (mngon sum) of emptiness. He doesn't write about this much but he states it in the introduction to his commentary on the Sutra Unraveling the Thought (mdo sde dgongs 'grel). [/quote]

One cannot really have a direct perception of emptiness, since a direct perception requires a sense organ and a sense objects, as well as a sense consciousness which functions through that organ. This is why Śantideva states in chapter 9 of the Bodhicaryāvatāra:

The ultimate is not within the domain the mind,
the mind is relative.

And:

When neither an existent nor a nonexistent
remain before the mind,
there being no other alternative, 
the mind is pacified.

Thus, the term "direct perception of emptiness" is just a convention for a nonperception.


OB1 said:
Interestingly, in my clinical work with young people with a psychotic range of mental functioning, I found it important to help them conceptually differentiate the negation of inherent existence from the negation of appearances. It was a convenient conceptual schema for avoiding the extreme of nihilism.

Malcolm wrote:
People with secure attachment are far more likely to be able to understand emptiness as a remedy to their afflictive states than those who cannot even begin to perceive they are in an intensified state of affliction (psychotic break) to begin with.

In any case, no one meditates on emptiness directly. As you allude to, one meditates on appearances, and tries to discern their nature through analytical reasoning. That's not what we do in Vajrayāna, as well as Dzogchen, but that is what people do in sūtra.

In one of the few cases where I have been asked to intervene with someone who was on the verge of a such a break, the best option for them, rather than Buddhist philosophy, was to remind them that they had a loving wife, whom they needed to trust, and that if she insisted that something was the case that contradicted the delusion they were experiencing, they should trust her and not the delusion (this person was stuck in the Descarte's demon trap). I am not convinced Buddhist philosophy is the best solution for a person who is spinning out. But what do I know, I am not a shrink.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 23rd, 2023 at 9:00 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
OB1 said:
My contention is that people with so-called Secure Attachments are somewhat ill equipped to feel the impact of analytic meditation on emptiness.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s an unproven assertion. I would argue the opposite.

OB1 said:
Alright, let's do this! I'll make the argument and you show me where I'm wrong. Fortunately, I think the shrooms have worn off

I understand that this is a Dzogchen forum but please keep in mind that I'm defending the above quoted claim specifically contextualized within the school of Madhyamika. My argument is not being presented autonomously but as a defense to a qualm raised by a senior practitioner on the forum.

My thesis: Individuals with a Secure attachment style are somewhat ill equipped for doing Madhyamika analysis.

Premise 1: In order for meditative analysis on the emptiness of the self of persons to work it is necessary to ascertain the object of negation (dgag chya).

P2: Individuals who have not previously had a direct perception of emptiness do not ascertain the object of negation thru valud cognition (tshad ma). In other words, the misconception of the self of persons is not validly ascertained thru an incontrovertible consciousness (mi slu ba'i rig pa).

This premise is established by the following: 1) The inherently established self (rang bzhin gyis grub pa) does not exist. 2) You cannot perceive something that does not exist. Only beings (on first level bhumi and above) who already have a direct perception of emptiness can directly perceive the misconception of inherent existence. 3) It is necessary to have a direct perception of the misconception of inherent existence in order to validly (tshad ma) identify the object of negation. 4) beings that have not had a direct perception of emptiness must rely on an invalid cognition to ascertain the object of negation. They must rely on a correctly assuming consciousness (yid dpyod). A correctly assuming consciousness is not incontrovertible (mi slu ba'i rig pa). Since beings, not on the bhumis, must rely on a controvertible invalid cognition to identify what is negated through the view of emptiness there is a lot of room for error and uncertainty. No wonder why it takes two incalculable eons just to arrive at the first bhumi!

P3: Ordinary beings with a Secure Attachment style acquire their secure sense of a self in dependence upon consistent reliable caregiving beginning from a young age. These beings easily achieve developmental stages such as Object Permanency. There is no need to hallucinate an imaginary reliable caregiver nor is there a need to imagine themselves as having omnipotent or omniscient powers. On the other hand, beings with disorganized attachment styles rely on such ideations in order cope with the stresses related to a lack of present and supportive care-giving. The developmental stage of Object Permanency may not ever be attained because they live in an imaginary world. They don't experience a stable sense of a self because their sense of self is projected as imaginary friends and so forth. Only when alone in bed practicing self-taught calm abiding can their imaginary friends be stabilized.

P4 Back to meditative analysis and the first of five stages of meditative analysis as is outlined by the 5th Dalai Lama in his commentary on the Root versus of Manjushri translated in Meditation on Emptiness (Hopkins trans.). Ascertaining the Object of Negation is tricky. The moment that the concretely appearing, "I" shows itself to the meditator it disappears almost immediately upon observation! The Dalai lama recommends observing the concretely appearing "I" as if from the corner of your eye. Another method is to recall occasions of having been wrongfully accused. The "I" appears more vividly when wrongfully accused. However, one has to become convinced that everything is on the line. If this appearing "I" is proven unfindable, one must be utterly convinced of its lack of true existence. The conclusion is like being struck by lightning.

P5: Now our guys with Secure and Disorganized Attachment styles are trying to ascertain the object of negation. Granted they both have to use guess work because it can't really be done through valid cognition. We are talking about allowing a hallucination to arise and be believed in. The Disorganized guy is the natural expert because he has been hallucinating all his life and most importantly, actively invested in believing in his hallucinations. The world tells him that rabbit horns don't exist but to him they do and he suffers terribly for it. When he refutes his belief in appearances, this saves him from the pits of hell.
The Securely attached guy is like, "Ya, whatever. The appearing "I" for a moment looked like myself as a baby when Johnny stole my candy". Then he goes on to study Nagarjuna's arguments and concludes that they are tautological.
Besides, he doesn't really want anything to do with a meditation on the emptiness of the self of persons because his secure sense of the self is ego-syntonic. He just needs a better job, house, wife and cat. Unfortunately, death comes along and he's totally unprepared. The schizophrenic never felt like he was born. Having the walls melt down and the ground fall out from under is just another day at the office and so is death.

Ok, I'm taking this a little too far but I appreciate the opportunity to clarify my thinking (based on my experience) of this matter.


Malcolm wrote:
There are so many unwarranted assumptions in your response I hardly know where to begin, apart from to say ascertaining the object of negation isn’t hard at all, since the object of negation of Madhyamaka is existence, etc., not solely inherent existence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 23rd, 2023 at 3:03 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
OB1 said:
My contention is that people with so-called Secure Attachments are somewhat ill equipped to feel the impact of analytic meditation on emptiness.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s an unproven assertion. I would argue the opposite.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 22nd, 2023 at 7:02 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
At least do your basic historical research, it was regent Osel Tendzin reported to have given people AIDS, not Trungpa who AFAIK never had AIDS nor was accused of giving it to anyone.

Not saying anything as to your points, but that’s a pretty big mistake to make in an impassioned argument about wrongdoing.

Gyurme Kundrol said:
No you're correct, I had misunderstood the part of the story where it wasnt that Trungpa had AIDS, it was that he and others knew his disciple did and just kept it a secret while his disciple continued to sleep with people.

Malcolm wrote:
That is unlikely.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 9:45 PM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
merilingpa said:
He was appointed by Trungpa Rinpoche to deal with people who went into manic episodes and other psychotic states.

PeterC said:
As terrible job descriptions go - that one is a winner.

Zoey85 said:
Trungpa Rinpoche is a perfect example of someone who has been thrown under the bus due to naive and uneducated dharma practitioners not understanding that mental illness (such as his alcoholism and substance abuse issues and likely untreated others) does not mean someone is not a real practitioner or cannot benefit beings. It's astounding how so many are ok with taking a massive dump on all of the wisdom he gave the world (especially the West) just because his behavior wasn't impeccable. Or who need to see his lack of impeccable behavior in the light of some narcissistic inflationary projection of "crazy wisdom." As if it's either/or. Which is again sort of the whole point of threads like this one.

Malcolm wrote:
And your opinion of Sogyal?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 9:36 PM
Title: Re: What do you call this Longchen Nyingtik text that I have?
Content:
pemachophel said:
I'm pretty sure I know how this happened, but it would be inappropriate for me to say anything more about it.

Anyway, here's Kyabje Dudjom Jigdral Yeshe Dorje Rinpoche's colophon:

"Because of Jetsun Pema Chodzin Sangngag Wangmo's request, [I,] Jigdral Yeshe Dorje wrote these words in order to help train those with faith and devotion but with no spare time. May it be meritorious."

Regardless of how it's categorized, it's the shortest five-accumulations ngondro I've ever seen and, since it is still relatively so new, it is very full of blessings. If anyone wants to know more about it, they can PM here.

Nalanda said:
The one I posted in the Original Post is not actually a LN ngondro but a super concise Dudjom Ngondro?

Malcolm wrote:
It is the short Dudjom Tersar Ngondro.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 8:40 PM
Title: Re: Dzogchen teachers and mental health
Content:
Lingpupa said:
Yes, back to the first post, and the reason for all this back and forth is right there. "Accessibility" and "mental health" are very broad, abstract terms, and there is little point talking about them without tying them down. Nyamlae, could you describe at least one case in which someone with "mental health issues" was denied access to teachings or practice facilities for that reason? What was the nature of the illness? How did it affect their behaviour? How was the access restricted?

I'm not asking you to prove your case - it could be fictional, if you like. But it would help my understanding if I knew what kind of thing you are talking about.

nyamlae said:
I can't really speak to people being denied access due to mental health issues. The issues I've seen are more often about a lack of accommodation, rather than active exclusion, and most of the issues I've seen involve trauma responses.

For example, I know someone with PTSD who gets scared in crowds. People notice that he doesn't travel or get out much. His lack of engagement is often assumed to be a lack of interest or seriousness on his part, and people rarely make an effort to understand him better. Having the option to do events online helps him access teachings that he wouldn't otherwise be able to sit through in person, but the communities he's most interested in rarely do online events. This set of conditions are an obstacle to him engaging in the dharma and the sangha.

Malcolm wrote:
Quite sad, but perhaps they need treatment for their PTSD.

nyamlae said:
Some people have childhood trauma and get triggered by teachers or sangha members speaking harshly  in an accusatory way. Healthy people might get uncomfortable when spoken to in this way, but for people with childhood trauma it can completely make them shut down. Their mind will go completely blank, they will be unable to remember things during the event, they might start crying involuntarily, and they feel intense shame and embarrassment about this response. If they're separately given practices that actually improve their condition, then great, but in the meantime it damages their connection to the community and their ability to learn the dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
The only way this works is if such people identify themselves beforehand, that in itself is a huge risk. And, what kind of “separately given” practices do you have in mind?

nyamlae said:
On top of these initial obstacles, people with these issues often are shamed or blamed for their responses. This whole set of conditions can make dharma practice an extremely negative experience. The most important cultural shift (in my opinion) would be for people to approach accessibility with curiosity and respect. I believe in actively soliciting people's feedback about accessibility, collaboratively finding ways for people to practice in spite of their obstacles, and holding people in positive regard even if ( especially if) they're not operating as well as other practitioners are.

Malcolm wrote:
I would venture a guess that many or even most of the people you describe would be hard pressed to out themselves to event organizers or teachers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 10:18 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:


↑ said:
I have been diagnosed personally with BPD (guess this my coming out on DW, glad it's anon ) so I'm quite, quite familiar with all of your preachy and pious warnings of what to do with such people. I'm glad your friend appreciated your honesty but I hope you have a few more tricks up your clinical sleeve because if you had lectured me like that while I was in a Borderline rage I probably would have gone for the jugular.

Johnny Dangerous said:
How intimidating Like I said, I knew nothing but of his diagnosis previously. Even so, if you’ve ever done DBT etc. you should be well aware that you do not get carte blanche wrt your behavior due to a BPD diagnosis.

Zoey85 said:
Yes, I've done my dbt homework. Borderline Personality Disorder is not an excuse for being a total b**ch. But nor is taking some classes and talking with a mentor once in awhile an excuse to tell said b**ches how exactly to behave.

Malcolm wrote:
I wouldn’t put much stock in “diagnosis” made by psychologists. They tend to follow fashion, not reality.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 10:15 AM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Accessibility to mental health treatment is a public health issue. If you are suggesting that we should support universal health coverage that includes mental health services, most of us who are counted as dharma teachers already do.

nyamlae said:
I'm not talking about access to mental health treatment. I am talking about accessibility as a social practice, as part of anti-oppression (in casual spaces) and DEI (in corporate spaces), etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Ok, but that’s not really what we were all discussing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 9:34 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody
Content:


OB1 said:
Is the ontology of Dzogchen such that it doesn't help with behavioral and psychological problems?

Malcolm wrote:
Belief systems in general don’t help.

Dzogchen isn’t a belief system per se; but to the extent that people just consider it an add-on, it doesn’t help.

OB1 said:
So the stalkers, pedifiles and other badly behaved sangha members have wrong view, right? If they had the view of trekcho then they would not degenerate so badly (?).

Malcolm wrote:
One would hope. But I don’t really see any Buddhist panaceas for such behavior on the horizon. There will always be some people who are just “off.” They deserve compassion, should not be cut off from receiving teachings, but must chaperoned for their own and others protection. For example, I am reminded of one man who was convinced he was going to marry ChNN’s granddaughter.  We had to set guard on ChNN’s residence to keep him from the premises. He followed. ChNN around the world, for some years.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 9:15 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:



Zoey85 said:
?

Not exactly sure what you mean in this context.

Malcolm wrote:
What I mean is that your impulse to benefit others is normal, but you also have observed the same thing I have—Buddhism does not mend f**cked up people.

Zoey85 said:
I see, thank you.

Malcolm wrote:
On the other hand, having a “mental illness” does not necessarily mean one is a f**cked up person.

One thing I have noticed is that some people, the longer they are in the “dharma,” the more rigid they become. Dharma is supposed to us make softer, not harder; more flexible, not more rigid.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 9:06 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:


Zoey85 said:
Anyway, I'm glad there has been some discussion about this. Thanks everyone. I think I'll probably bow out now since I seem to not be contributing much of value, based on peoples' responses to my ideas. In which case I know where the door is (and can handle the ever so slight abandonment wound that has been triggered in this convo by people who won't see the big picture, but just the fault in what I'm trying to convey). (That's a mental health joke, get it?)

Malcolm wrote:
Your basic impulse is perfectly normal. The problem is that most people are self-absorbed, especially those who are seeking “ enlightenment.”

Zoey85 said:
?

Not exactly sure what you mean in this context.

Malcolm wrote:
What I mean is that your impulse to benefit others is normal, but you also have observed the same thing I have—Buddhism does not mend f**cked up people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 9:03 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:


OB1 said:
Is the ontology of Dzogchen such that it doesn't help with behavioral and psychological problems?

Malcolm wrote:
Belief systems in general don’t help.

Dzogchen isn’t a belief system per se; but to the extent that people just consider it an add-on, it doesn’t help.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 8:59 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:


Zoey85 said:
Anyway, I'm glad there has been some discussion about this. Thanks everyone. I think I'll probably bow out now since I seem to not be contributing much of value, based on peoples' responses to my ideas. In which case I know where the door is (and can handle the ever so slight abandonment wound that has been triggered in this convo by people who won't see the big picture, but just the fault in what I'm trying to convey). (That's a mental health joke, get it?)

Malcolm wrote:
The basic point is that kindness in many settings is in short supply, especially, counterintuitively, in dharma centers.

Your basic impulse is perfectly normal. The problem is that most people are self-absorbed, especially those who are seeking “ enlightenment.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 8:37 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
Zoey85 said:
the shit-show that goes on in dharma centers because people can't be bothered to learn basic human psychology.

Malcolm wrote:
The shit show at dharma centers happens not because people don’t know basic psychology, it’s because they do. The error is in assuming people are self-reflexive. And dharma centers tend not to treat people as adults. As you know, I really have no use for dharma centers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 8:06 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:
Zoey85 said:
They don't experience the world and the dharma paths in the same way as people who have a solid sense of "I."

Malcolm wrote:
Everyone in samsara has a solid sense of “I.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 7:31 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:


OB1 said:
Regardless, wouldn't you agree that it is wonderful and meaningful even if it's only hypothetical that someone with predispositions for schizophrenia could prevent such an illness by receiving and getting the pointing out instructions prior to having their first break?

Malcolm wrote:
In my experience, dealing with delusional people in Dzogchen Community, direct introduction does not prevent pedophilia, stalking, and a number of other mental pathologies, nor does it prevent or ameliorate dissociative identity disorders, borderline disorders, narcissistic disorders, and so on. In some cases, it exacerbates such disorders.

Zoey85 said:
So then, what, these folks are just screwed? Because if psychotherapy and psychotropics don't often help them (as OB1 mentioned above) and DI doesn't either, then I guess we should just give up on them?

Malcolm wrote:
Well, the case of pedophiles and stalkers, we required them to be chaperoned, and in the case of the others, well, as long as they were no danger to themselves and others. But the point of my post was to,push back against OB1’s baseless contention that dharma, specifically direct introduction, can address any and all mental illnesses, is if it were a panacea. This is obvious, actually, given the presence of predatory Tibetans posing as lamas. If they aren’t mentally ill, who is?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 6:55 AM
Title: Re: Psychology: You have to be somebody before you can be nobody (?)
Content:


OB1 said:
Regardless, wouldn't you agree that it is wonderful and meaningful even if it's only hypothetical that someone with predispositions for schizophrenia could prevent such an illness by receiving and getting the pointing out instructions prior to having their first break?

Malcolm wrote:
In my experience, dealing with delusional people in Dzogchen Community, direct introduction does not prevent pedophilia, stalking, and a number of other mental pathologies, nor does it prevent or ameliorate dissociative identity disorders, borderline disorders, narcissistic disorders, and so on. In some cases, it exacerbates such disorders.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 4:31 AM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:


Zoey85 said:
Yes, I understand, but then I'm wondering why it shouldn't become part of the training so as to avoid some of the sorts of problems that are being mentioned on this thread (and I'm guessing this isn't the first time this topic has been discussed on DW)?

Malcolm wrote:
None of my teachers are trained therapists, so I am not, and for the same reason I no longer practice Tibetan Medicine with respect to students, I would not want to be the therapist of one of my students. And as you pointed out already, there are already a lot of shit therapists out there. In any case, I am pretty certain that sincere practice of Dharma will take care of most people's mental woes. If it isn't, such people should see professional help, in my opinion, just as mentally ill people in the past in Tibet would seek the help of Tibetan doctors, etc.

Zoey85 said:
Yes, and was split off into Psychology: you have to be somebody...

Malcolm wrote:
Well, if you have to be somebody to be nobody, that's pretty f**ked up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 2:04 AM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Is it me, or has this thread seriously veered off topic?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 1:47 AM
Title: Re: Longchen Nyingtig opportunity
Content:
Dawa Ösel said:
Will there be a chance to attend this online?

Malcolm wrote:
No, I don't think so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: Longchen Nyingtig opportunity
Content:
yagmort said:
let's see if this work

https://i.ibb.co/W63P1hX/355133592-10224583623990568-4590438599298440-n.jpg

same as the topic
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=42526

and just to make sure: this event includes Yeshe Lama and/or Thigle Gyachen (still not sure if there are 2 separate empowerments or thigle gyachen wang enables one to practice both thigle gyachen and yeshe lama) ?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it will. Complete means complete.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 12:25 AM
Title: Re: Stoicism: A Pre-Buddhist Path to Inner Peace and Resilience
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
I hate these chat GPT posts. What is the point?

Norwegian said:
Fully agreed, 100%.

Malcolm wrote:
Ditto


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 21st, 2023 at 12:06 AM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:
Zoey85 said:
You read about psychology from good sources, then look at these tendencies in your mind, then understand that others who have these just have them in technicolor. Then you learn what the best methods are to respond to people with varying tendencies. For example, narcissists tend to need to be validated until they can tolerate the experience of not being one-mind. Or borderlines need to be treated with great love and given good boundaries, etc. It takes time to understand, and maybe people don't think it's relevant to dharma, but this is ridiculous. If you said dharma folks don't need to learn about electrical engineering to practice, I would agree. But psychology is just the study of the mind, which is very close to dharma in the sense that we're describing issues that happen as soon as one "deviates" from rigpa.

Malcolm wrote:
The point here is not that psychology irrelevant to the dharma, the point is that dharma teachers tend to make bad psychologists. This is not what we are trained to do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 11:43 PM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:
nyamlae said:
I am advocating for a general shift in attitudes and increased focus on supporting accessibility in a basic way, both among teachers and in the sangha.

Malcolm wrote:
Accessibility to mental health treatment is a public health issue. If you are suggesting that we should support universal health coverage that includes mental health services, most of us who are counted as dharma teachers already do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 9:49 PM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:


nyamlae said:
Again, I'm not talking about mental health crises, nor am I saying I "expect" people to have specialized training. I never made either of those points.

I'm talking about mental health and accessibility in general, which applies to everyone. It is not an advanced kind of skill. I am simply calling for more dharma teachers and practitioners to actively take on this focus. I'm tired of people debating whether it's feasible -- I know it's feasible, it's a very common skillset in my generation.

Malcolm wrote:
Teaching dharma and being a mental health counselor are very different sorts of tasks, requiring different training and skill sets. Quite frankly, while ministerial duties do come along with being a dharma teacher, dharma teachers need to understand boundaries, as well as how to direct people to proper care. We are not marriage counselors, therapists, etc,, unless we are professionally trained.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 9:41 PM
Title: Re: Damngak Dzod - Treasury of Precious Instructions 2024
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Kongtrul mostly took representative samples. But there are many terma cycles where not even representative samples were taken. For example, the termas of Nyima Drakpa were deliberately excluded by Kongtrul because of the conflict that emerged between  Nyima Drakpa and Yongye Migyur Dorje in the 17th century.

Kai lord said:
So in the real historical account, some termas were lost forever and Kongtrul intentionally let that happen......

Malcolm wrote:
Not really, the lineage for many of theses excluded termas still exist. There is a massive collection of termas, which is much more exhaustive than the RT, which one can find on BDRC.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 10:15 AM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:



Zoey85 said:
Yes, thank you. I too have been in that position. I'm not making claims that it's easy to practice dharma when clinically depressed, I'm just saying that people who say that someone who is in that state first needs to get in to therapy/fix themselves to some arbitrary extent before engaging dharma practice (ie, looking at one's own mind) is mistaken.

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, they should first change their conduct, do more yoga, move more, etc.; then look at their diet, stimulants intake, etc. If all else fails, they should do "shroom" therapy. Much less expensive and more beneficial the SSRI's, etc. In the meantime, they should practice merit-generating activities in particular, if they find it difficult to sit, and so on.

Giovanni said:
Just a word to say that there alternatives to both mushrooms and SSRI’s which require no ingestion at all.

Malcolm wrote:
It depends on the severity of the condition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 8:28 AM
Title: Re: ChNN and formal trekchö practice
Content:


PeterC said:
What is that last picture showing?  (I haven’t got my copy yet…)

Malcolm wrote:
Lineage chart from Jigme Lingpa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 7:17 AM
Title: Re: Damngak Dzod - Treasury of Precious Instructions 2024
Content:



Kai lord said:
If I'm not wrong, this treasury only contains the wang, lungs and instructions of kama Nyingma lineages.

Malcolm wrote:
It contains the empowerment of the Lama Yangtig.

Kai lord said:
rinchen terdzo which contains wangs, lungs and instructions of all terma lineages prior to 20th century.

Malcolm wrote:
Not even close. It contains the ones Kongtrul judged the most important, based on Guru Tashi's 108 tertons.

conebeckham said:
Let's not forget Jamyang Khyentse's influence as well.  He was in large part the impetus for all the treasures Kongtrul compiled, and also had direct input into what was included.  (Not sure about what was excluded.....)

Malcolm wrote:
If you look at the lineage lists, most of what’s in the RT does not come from JKW.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 4:13 AM
Title: Re: Damngak Dzod - Treasury of Precious Instructions 2024
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Not even close. It contains the ones Kongtrul judged the most important, based on Guru Tashi's 108 tertons.

Kai lord said:
If thats the case

Malcolm wrote:
It is.


Kai lord said:
and since Jamgon vowed to preserve all teachings from the minor and major lineage cycles, (even going to the extent of receiving empowerments/transmissions from  practitioners of unknown credence just to save their lineage from extinction) Where were the rest of teachings/instructions from the hundreds of minor terma cycles kept and preserved outside the five treasuries ?

Malcolm wrote:
Kongtrul mostly took representative samples. But there are many terma cycles where not even representative samples were taken. For example, the termas of Nyima Drakpa were deliberately excluded by Kongtrul because of the conflict that emerged between  Nyima Drakpa and Yongye Migyur Dorje in the 17th century.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: AI Dharma Translation
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
We use machines for generating prayers


Sādhaka said:
Wait what?

Bristollad said:
Prayer wheels, perhaps?  At least, that's what comes to my mind.

Malcolm wrote:
As well as recordings, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 2:26 AM
Title: Re: AI Dharma Translation
Content:


kurt.keutzer said:
Unfortunately, our current system is too computationally expensive to make widely available. Moreover, many have come forward with "AI ethics" concerns that it would not be in service of the dharma to make these translation tools available. This all needs to be sorted out.

Malcolm wrote:
Hi Kurt:

The main issue, as I see it at present, is editing machine-generated texts, reviewing them for sense, idiom, etc. For Tibetan especially, given the huge amount of homophony and scarcity of synonyms, Tibetan texts would need more oversight in the short term. I am sure eventually however, machine-generated translations will become normative.

We use machines for generating prayers, I don't see any real ethical concerns with dharma translations in this respect.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 2:02 AM
Title: Re: ChNN and formal trekchö practice
Content:
heart said:
Did you read it? It is a lot like a commentary of Longsal Trechö. Meaning a quote from the Longsal Trechö and then a comment by Rinpoche supported by quotes from  other sources. Not very different from the Longsal Tögal.

Malcolm wrote:
Once you get to the direction intro, section 1.4 in three words section, form pg. 285, onward, it is pretty much the same as the Longsal Tregcho commentary.

Otherwise, the structure of the book is quite similar to topic 8 in Buddhahood, Tshigdon mDzod, etc.,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 1:51 AM
Title: Re: AI Dharma Translation
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Now I’ve heard that old Tibetan actually pronounced Wylie the way that it’s spelled. For example: Lodro was actually pronounced as blo gros, with the ‘s’ and ‘b’ sound and everything. Any truth to that?

Malcolm wrote:
People speculate that because Ladakhis pronounce everything, that this is how old Tibetan was pronounced. I have not read Nathan HIll's reconstruction of old Tibetan phonemics, but its also a subject that is not very interesting to me personally.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 12:47 AM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:
Lingpupa said:
I think it's a mistake for dharma centres or teachers to think that, just because the dharma is so "good", they are equipped to cope with - or even solve - that kind of problem.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, it never prevented Khampas from regularly murdering one another, or even famous teachers, so you might have a point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 12:25 AM
Title: Re: Longchenpa's Extant Praises
Content:
ThreeVows said:
…for instance Mipham Rinpoche mentions Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva in his longer Tashi prayer, and in the commentary he discusses that they are basically manifestations of the three lords (Avalokiteshvara, Manjushri, and Vajrapani)


Sādhaka said:
Respectively?

Malcolm wrote:
No:

Brahma is an emanation of Mañjuśrī
Viṣṇu is an emanation of Vajrapāṇi
Shiva is an emanation of Avalokiteśvara


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 20th, 2023 at 12:00 AM
Title: Re: Back in the USA II
Content:
Unknown said:
today is Juneteenth, the annual commemoration of the end of slavery in the United States. we can all agree that’s a pretty damned good reason for a holiday, right?

well, actually, since we live in the dumbest f**king country in the universe, we can’t all agree that the end of slavery is a good reason for a holiday.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.jefftiedrich.com/p/its-juneteenth-and-neo-nazis-are?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 19th, 2023 at 11:55 PM
Title: Re: AI Dharma Translation
Content:
Sādhaka said:
It’s tempting to want to hope that A.I. can get to the point of translating important texts for us; but at the end of the day, I have strong doubts that it could ever overstand nuances that only human or Buddhic rather (blo) intelligence could bring.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't think that AI will be useful in directly translating Tibetan Dharma texts anytime soon.



jet.urgyen said:
now, the question is, ¿does wylie system have defects? ¿which are those? your answers will be of immense use.

Punya said:
Joanna Bialek critiqued the Wylie system in her article
Towards a standardisation of Tibetan transliteration for textual studies in 2020. The article references earlier critiques.

Malcolm wrote:
And offered literally nothing useful to replace it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 19th, 2023 at 10:21 PM
Title: Re: Damngak Dzod - Treasury of Precious Instructions 2024
Content:



Kai lord said:
If I'm not wrong, this treasury only contains the wang, lungs and instructions of kama Nyingma lineages.

Malcolm wrote:
It contains the empowerment of the Lama Yangtig.

Kai lord said:
rinchen terdzo which contains wangs, lungs and instructions of all terma lineages prior to 20th century.

Malcolm wrote:
Not even close. It contains the ones Kongtrul judged the most important, based on Guru Tashi's 108 tertons.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 19th, 2023 at 10:16 PM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:



Zoey85 said:
And yet he was one of the few who realized buddhahood in one life, go figure...

So since we aren't even mass murderers like he was then I guess we're all in pretty good shape!

Malcolm wrote:
I think we can take the information written down in a Tibetan novel 500 years after Milarepa lived with a large grain of salt. While it is true that Mila indeed trained in hail-making rites connected with Rahula, etc., his earliest hagiographies make no mention his murdering his relatives, and so on, and most of the other details which Gampopa set down are ignored or reversed in the standard hagiography written by Tsang Nyon Heruka.

Zoey85 said:
Too bad, it made for a great story.

Malcolm wrote:
You might want to read Peter Alan Roberts book on Rechungpa, all the details are there.


Zoey85 said:
My point was just that the worst of the worst of us can still become fully realized in this life if we have extremely strong devotion to the dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, there is Angulimala, the original "When you meet the Buddha in the road, kill him" guy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 19th, 2023 at 10:04 PM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
You mentioned Milarepa’s mental stability, so I guess it’s whatever you were referring to.
Not being into murdering people (as Milarepa was) is a good start I suppose.

Zoey85 said:
And yet he was one of the few who realized buddhahood in one life, go figure...

So since we aren't even mass murderers like he was then I guess we're all in pretty good shape!

Malcolm wrote:
I think we can take the information written down in a Tibetan novel 500 years after Milarepa lived with a large grain of salt. While it is true that Mila indeed trained in hail-making rites connected with Rahula, etc., his earliest hagiographies make no mention his murdering his relatives, and so on, and most of the other details which Gampopa set down are ignored or reversed in the standard hagiography written by Tsang Nyon Heruka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 19th, 2023 at 9:59 PM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:



Zoey85 said:
Although this is a very popular view among practitioners these days, it's a false one. I've met plenty of people with severe mental health diagnoses who have done very well in the dharma without *first* becoming the sort of person others want to hang out with because they are 'tolerably balanced'. How stable do you think Milarepa's mental health was when he murdered all of those folks? Do you think he worked with a clinical psychologist prior to meeting Marpa and spending his life in practice and realizing buddhahood? Of course it's not a bad thing to practice dharma simultaneously with being in therapy (since developing intelligence about the thought/emotional patterns which go along with mental health issues is extremely helpful) but getting years of therapy prior to beginning the path is not necessary.

stoneinfocus said:
It's not necessary, but it's pretty obvious that someone whose life is in shambles is going to have a pretty hard time focusing on Dharma. It was much harder to practice as a clinically depressed person with no income; pretty much all my energy was spent on that, whether I wanted it to be or not. Some people are lucky if they can get out of bed to shower, let alone even think about Dharma.

Not that it can't help people with problems, of course it can.

Zoey85 said:
Yes, thank you. I too have been in that position. I'm not making claims that it's easy to practice dharma when clinically depressed, I'm just saying that people who say that someone who is in that state first needs to get in to therapy/fix themselves to some arbitrary extent before engaging dharma practice (ie, looking at one's own mind) is mistaken.

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, they should first change their conduct, do more yoga, move more, etc.; then look at their diet, stimulants intake, etc. If all else fails, they should do "shroom" therapy. Much less expensive and more beneficial the SSRI's, etc. In the meantime, they should practice merit-generating activities in particular, if they find it difficult to sit, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 19th, 2023 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: Why so gray?
Content:
Zoey85 said:
this latest trend in claiming someone must be emotionally stable to even begin to practice...

Malcolm wrote:
Follow the money.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 19th, 2023 at 9:33 PM
Title: Re: Western Philosophy and emptiness
Content:
Kai lord said:
Mi-pham attempts to interpret Rong-zom-pa's statements in which he unquestionably maintains that gnosis does not exist at the stage of a buddha as only referring to gnosis that had been generated on the path but not to gnosis as such, for Rong-zom-pa, Mi-pham argues, is an expounder of rDzogs-chen, a system in which what is called 'self-occurring gnosis' (rang byung gi ye shes: svayaṃbhūjñāna) features prominently. Nonetheless, from my examination of Rong-zom-pa's discussions of the whole issue, it has become evident that he did indeed deny the existence of any cognitive element whatsoever at the stage of a buddha, the sole constituent of Buddhahood being for him the purified dharmadhātu. Although he alludes to self-occurring gnosis on numerous occasions in his works, there is a salient difference between his and Mi-pham's understanding of the term: for Mi-pham self-occurring gnosis is something cognitive, whereas for Rong-zom-pa, who equates it with the dharmadhātu, it is not. Rong-zom-pa, however, does not deny that a buddha's gnosis, as mere appearance, manifests to those who have not yet attained release and thus have not yet eliminated all their delusions. A buddha, on the other hand, whose delusions have been completely exhausted, does not possess such gnosis.
Interesting to read that Mipham's position on Jnana Dharmakaya is closer to Gelug than expected.

Malcolm wrote:
I would not be so hasty. Mipham's commentary on the Cultivation of Bodhicitta, when discussing the nonexistence of buddhahood, states:

[Root] Since the awakening of the sugata does not exist, his magical apparitions appear to the deluded, similar to an illusion. 

[Commentary] Since the awakening of the sugata does not exist, his magical apparition, while a false appearance, appears to the deluded, similar to an illusion.

[Root] Likewise, the pure pristine consciousnesses that are a stream of utter virtue 
and the arising of their perceptions of the dharmadhātu itself are to be investigated.
Because the vajra has no basis and mutual existence [is not established], the nature is similar;
and as there is no partiality for those [pure pristine consciousnesses] — the dharmadhātu, the vajra, and the pinnacle— there are no moments.


[Commentary] Likewise, when those nonconceptual, pure gnoses that are a stream of limitless roots of utter virtue and the unmistaken dharmadhātu that gives rise to the perceptions of those gnoses are analytically investigated, they are not established. In this way, because the basis or cause of that vajra, nonconceptual gnosis, does not exist in the mind, there is also no resultant gnosis. Therefore, since their mutual existence is not established, they become similar in every respect to the nature of the mind that is not established and are the same. The assertion of the Vijñāptivadins that gnosis is ultimate is also not established. The vajra-like gnosis that realizes the dharmadhātu is the pinnacle of all gnosis. Since they do not perceive any partiality at all, those gnoses are not momentary."

And:

[Root] The root of pure virtue [is similar to] a reflection. Since [the root of pure virtue] does not exist, mundane gnosis also does not exist.

[Commentary] The root of the pure virtue of the three wheels is similar to a reflection. Since [the root of pure virtue] does not truly exist, the pure, mundane gnosis which depends on that also does not exist.

Also Rongzom's view of this depends on Mañjuśrīmitra, as does Longchenpa's view, as well as being one more point which shows that gzhan stong is not compatible with Dzogchen teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 19th, 2023 at 12:42 PM
Title: Re: How can a leftist be a Buddhist?
Content:


natusake said:
The proof of the correctness of his theories is borne out by the validity of his reasoning and the prescience with which these valid theories equipped him.

Malcolm wrote:
You sound like a Marxist, and are as equally wrong.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 19th, 2023 at 4:44 AM
Title: Re: How can a leftist be a Buddhist?
Content:


natusake said:
Milanovic raises this idea with the assumption that a policy goal of a liberal state is to reduce income inequality. That is complete nonsense, but it's common nonsense to be sure. In context, he is talking about modest forms of redistribution. It has nothing to do with a state 'run by elites', that you implied I support (which, by the way, I never claimed was 'not that bad', as you accused).

Malcolm wrote:
Read your own post.

natusake said:
There are two uses of the word "libertarianism" in the whole book. He hardly directs his attention enough to libertarianism to analyze much of it at all.

Malcolm wrote:
That's because, like communism, it is a discredited economic religion.


natusake said:
Markets do not need protection or help functioning other than the protection of private property and of contract. But these protections offer no special privilege and there is no way to get an advantage over a competitor on these grounds alone. The interests a business has in politics in a liberal society do not differ in any way than the interests that anyone else has in politics, as with all individuals and groups in a liberal society.

Malcolm wrote:
So you agree, just as individuals need protection, agents in the market such as corporations need protections, and it is precisely those protections which regulate markets——for example, heroin, cocaine, military grade weapons, etc. And you also agree that as persons, corporations participate in the political process for their own benefits, regardless of who may be injured by it.

natusake said:
In contrast, when people accept that government must regulate markets that there emerges the possibility of special interests for certain groups of people and of businesses over others because regulation always has discriminatory effects for different people. Then, businesses become very interested, because legislation has the power to drastically effect profits.

Malcolm wrote:
And absence of regulation has the effect of discriminating against other people.


natusake said:
Thus, democracy has always been in danger.

Malcolm wrote:
Silly.

natusake said:
Markets are idiots, they are not intelligent, and this is demonstrably shown time and again:
Markets are neither idiots nor intelligent. They do not think, and they have no will of their own. They are simply the result of people's intentional cooperation under the division of labor.

Malcolm wrote:
If you are naive, sure.

natusake said:
Polanyi goes no farther than to show with these statements that anti-liberal sentiments were historically in existence. Whether they were based on valid objections to the economy or not is not demonstrated. As it happens, these anti-liberal policies - including those Polanyi claims that some liberals advocated - were based on gross misunderstandings of capitalism and lame attempts to justify special privileges for certain groups. A politically successful movement contra to some policy, liberal or otherwise, is not proof of the correctness of this movement. For that, you need to do an economic analysis, and in that field Polanyi's is quite lacking.

Malcolm wrote:
So you admit that the free-market experiment, aka Globalization, circa 1995-2015, which has largely lost its head of steam, is not proof of the correctness of your theories, since what Polanyi points out is that time and again, societies reject absolute free-marketeering, which you naively advocate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 19th, 2023 at 3:35 AM
Title: Re: How can a leftist be a Buddhist?
Content:


natusake said:
Looking at the book myself, I can't help but feel you have grossly mischaracterized Milanovic's argument. Political capitalism is a term he gets from Max Weber, who described a "politically motivated capitalism" (incidentally, Max Weber and Ludwig von Mises were contemporaries and friends; Mises would have been quite aware of this idea). Milanovic raises this idea after he questions why it is that liberals were unable to predict the world wars, and the following trends in socioeconomic development.

Malcolm wrote:
Political capitalism is a term he uses to describe the capitalism which grew out of communism in underdeveloped nations.


natusake said:
Milanovic called what followed political capitalism, and Mises calls it interventionism and socialism. They are different words, but the meaning is the same. You should read Omnipotent Government, it fully anticipated what Milanovic calls political capitalism.

Malcolm wrote:
No, you are incorrect.

natusake said:
The proof of this is that Milanovic's two paradigmatic examples of political capitalism are China and Vietnam. This is very interesting, these were certainly not the laissez-faire societies that you alleged political capitalism to emerge from.

Malcolm wrote:
I did not make that assertion.

natusake said:
The paragraph you quote is further proof that Milanovic is talking about capitalism under an interventionist regime, which is exactly what I'm criticizing. In a liberal society, there is no such thing as 'management' of the economy to 'produce high growth rates'.

Malcolm wrote:
He is talking about Singapore, etc. Political capitalism is precisely not liberal.


natusake said:
Having looked at these sections of the book, I am not convinced by any means that Milanovic is directing his statements to libertarians as you describe. Milanovic is describing the capitalism under an interventionist regime; in this respect, his argument is more of a confirmation of Mises' argument against interventionism than anything.

Malcolm wrote:
You are not paying attention:

Libertarian utopia of a small state can be reached only through protocommunist policies

Milanovic, Branko. Capitalism, Alone (p. 46). Harvard University Press. Kindle Edition.

natusake said:
All modern-day political trends are a result of interventionist and socialist ideologies. Milanovic's descriptions of political capitalism are descriptions of society that has fell under anti-liberal ideas opposing capitalism and the free market.

Malcolm wrote:
Again, you are not paying attention:

It is precisely in the neglected history of the Third World that we shall find the place of communism within global history. I shall argue that communism is a social system that enabled backward and colonized societies to abolish feudalism, regain economic and political independence, and build indigenous capitalism.

Milanovic, Branko. Capitalism, Alone (p. 75). Harvard University Press. Kindle Edition.

natusake said:
They do not apply to a society where the notion of government regulation of an economy is out of the question. In such a society, businesses have no incentive to become involved in politics because there is no way to benefit by regulatory capture.

Malcolm wrote:
Businesses have every incentive to become involved in politics precisely because the role of government is principally to protect markets and keep them functioning well.

natusake said:
Democracy is incompatible with regulation of the market.

Malcolm wrote:
All markets have always been regulated. The central role of government, as mentioned above, is the regulation and protection of markets. Markets are idiots, they are not intelligent, and this is demonstrably shown time and again:

Liberal writers like Spencer and Sumner, Mises and Lippmann offer an account of the double movement substantially similar to our own, but they put an entirely different interpretation on it. While in our view the concept of a self-regulating market was utopian, and its progress was stopped by the realistic self-protection of society, in their view all protectionism was a mistake due to impatience, greed, and shortsightedness, but for which the market would have resolved its difficulties. The question as to which of these two views is correct is perhaps the most important problem of recent social history, involving as it does no less than a decision on the claim of economic liberalism to be the basic organizing principle in society. Before we turn to the testimony of the facts, a more precise formulation of the issue is needed.

Polanyi, Karl. The Great Transformation (p. 148). Beacon Press. Kindle Edition.

And:

Finally, the behavior of liberals themselves proved that the maintenance of freedom of trade—in our terms, of a self-regulating market—far from excluding intervention, in effect, demanded such action, and that liberals themselves regularly called for compulsory action on the part of the state as in the case of trade union law and anti-trust laws. Thus nothing could be more decisive than the evidence of history as to which of the two contending interpretations of the double movement was correct: that of the economic liberal who maintained that his policy never had a chance, but was strangled by shortsighted trade unionists, Marxist intellectuals, greedy manufacturers, and reactionary landlords; or that of his critics, who can point to the universal “collectivist” reaction against the expansion of market economy in the second half of the nineteenth century as conclusive proof of the peril to society inherent in the utopian principle of a self-regulating market.

Polanyi, Karl. The Great Transformation (p. 157). Beacon Press. Kindle Edition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 19th, 2023 at 2:30 AM
Title: Re: Sukkhasiddhi Foundation
Content:
BareBones said:
Can anyone vouch for the authenticity of the lamas running this organization, their quality of their teachings, etc? They offer what appears to be a comprehensive and well-structured Shangpa curriculum, but there is a significant price tag attached and I figure it’s wise to ask around a bit before buying investigating further.

https://www.sukhasiddhi.org

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I have met two of them—Lama Palden Drolma and Lama Dondrup—as well as having interacted with Lama Drupgyu, who is also a member of Tsadra.

They are totally legit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 10:31 PM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:


ject said:
I do not sing and I cant keep a tune. LOL. Trust me, you do not want to hear me "sing". You will have a mild case of PTSD. and I would feel like an idiot. So, no singing.

Malcolm wrote:
If you have a voice, you can sing. Eventually, the knots in your throat cakra will loosen, if you practice mantras like SOV, Vajraguru, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 8:13 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:


MiphamFan said:
I see various western commentators talking about the Singapore model as something to be lauded, these people have no experience living here.

Malcolm wrote:
Model Political Capitalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 8:04 PM
Title: Re: How can a leftist be a Buddhist?
Content:
natusake said:
In other words, complete free-market capitalism, while certainly not being perfect, is the only game in town. Capitalism, alone.

Malcolm wrote:
Milanovic disagrees. Libertarianism of the Mises variety ultimately leads to this:

The more economic and political power in liberal capitalism become united, the more liberal capitalism becomes plutocratic and comes to resemble political capitalism. In the latter, political control is the way to acquire economic benefits; in plutocratic, formerly liberal, capitalism, economic power is used to conquer politics. The end point of the two systems becomes the same: unification and persistence of the elites.

Elites may also believe that they are able to run society more effectively by using the technocratic toolkit of political capitalism. A transition toward political capitalism could be boosted if young people became increasingly disenchanted by mainstream parties that follow more or less the same policies, and consequently lost hope that democratic processes could lead to meaningful change. The objective of political capitalism is to take politics out of people’s minds, which can be more easily done when disenchantment and lack of interest in democratic politics are high.

Mises, Hayek, Rawls, etc., were unequipped to imagine political capitalism; they imagined, wrongly, that capitalism and democracy were coterminous. Demonstrably, they are not.

natusake said:
Even if Milanovich is correct, I can hardly see this as a worse situation than the inevitable road to socialism that Mises amply proves interventionism to lead us….

But I cannot imagine that Milanovich could possibly be describing what he sees as politics in the present day. Modern politics undoubtedly is a result of the unopposed support for government intervention in the economy, not due to laissez-faire.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no longer a road to “socialism” anywhere. And yes, he is describing modern political economy. You need to get with it and cease relying  on the outdated views of political economists of the past. Milanovich goes over their errors and their inability to predict the rise of political capitalism. Like most libertarians, you’ve betrayed your hand by admitting that “rule by elites” isn’t that bad. That’s the “proto-communist policies” Milanovich points out is a result of the libertarian small state. Nozick too is smart, but not that smart.

You better read Milanovic’s two books, the first on globalism, the second, Capitalism, Alone. He concludes the latter book with this final paragraph:

If liberal capitalism were to evolve toward political capitalism, it would display all or most of the features that I discussed in Chapter 3. A very effective management of the economy would be required to produce the relatively high growth rates that would keep the population satisfied; an efficient bureaucracy would be needed to implement such measures; and there would be an increase in intrinsic corruption that can always, in the long term, present a threat to the survival of a regime.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 12:32 PM
Title: Re: The Great Debate on Quitting Smoking
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Just stop. It’s not hard.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 10:18 AM
Title: Re: How can a leftist be a Buddhist?
Content:
natusake said:
In other words, complete free-market capitalism, while certainly not being perfect, is the only game in town. Capitalism, alone.

Malcolm wrote:
Milanovich disagrees. Libertarianism of the Mises variety ultimately leads to this:

The more economic and political power in liberal capitalism become united, the more liberal capitalism becomes plutocratic and comes to resemble political capitalism. In the latter, political control is the way to acquire economic benefits; in plutocratic, formerly liberal, capitalism, economic power is used to conquer politics. The end point of the two systems becomes the same: unification and persistence of the elites. 

Elites may also believe that they are able to run society more effectively by using the technocratic toolkit of political capitalism. A transition toward political capitalism could be boosted if young people became increasingly disenchanted by mainstream parties that follow more or less the same policies, and consequently lost hope that democratic processes could lead to meaningful change. The objective of political capitalism is to take politics out of people’s minds, which can be more easily done when disenchantment and lack of interest in democratic politics are high.

Mises, Hayek, Rawls, etc., were unequipped to imagine political capitalism; they imagined, wrongly, that capitalism and democracy were coterminous. Demonstrably, they are not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 8:03 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:


Zhen Li said:
Yeah, realistically, it won't happen. He has been calling it a "peaceful revolution," but he's likely to meet the same fate as his uncle if he tried that. But optimism has its benefits long-run (it's something that used to set the US apart from the rest of the world), and he'll at least raise awareness of these issues.

Malcolm wrote:
The former guy proved that the world was not ready for "peace." The minute he went about dismantling 75 years of diplomatic consensus, that was when the world started to move out of balance. Of course we can discuss the travesty of Iraq, Obama's timidity with respect to Syria and Russia, etc. But the present state of affairs is a direct result of TFG's incompetence in governance and affection for dictators. Thankfully, Biden, drawing on his 45 years in the house, senate, and time as VP, was able to reforge NATO, and because of Putin's folly, made it even stronger. Under his guidance, the US economy is very strong, inflation is under control, there are massive infrastructure projects all over the US, etc.

RFK has absolutely no experience in government, believes in strange things like 5G being a existential threat to everything, etc. The problem with Kennedy is not that he is completely crazy——he has worked for many things I believe strongly, indigenous rights, and so on. The problem with the guy is that he does not have an evidence-based view of many things. He has zero understanding of the Ukraine situation, thinks vaccines cause autism, etc. The list of bad ideas to which he is addicted is rather lengthy. Basically, the dude is a casualty of 1960's.

Finally, the idea that JFK was iced by the CIA is complete bollocks, just laughable, and the idea that if elected, he would suffer the same fate, equally febrile.

Zhen Li said:
So magic bullet, the mob, or lone gunman?

As for RFK Jr’s POVs, they’re shared by a large number of the population for various reasons. I don’t expect the hardcore Bidenites to consider them.

Malcolm wrote:
A significant portion of the population believes, against empirical evidence, that 2020 was stolen. A significant portion of the population believes in Qanon. That a number of people believe batshit crazy things is irrelevant. RFK is unelectable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 7:11 AM
Title: Re: How can a leftist be a Buddhist?
Content:



natusake said:
No comments on the reference to Mises? His contributions to economics are at least as important, if not more important, than Hayek's.

The approach to competition today and the one Hayek speaks about here do not differ in essentials. If you're not going to read the article I referenced, then why did you even ask? Hayek's argument applies even more strikingly to mathematical economics today. In actual fact, you cannot do most of what is important in economics with mathematics.

PeterC said:
That last sentence makes it pretty clear that I’m wasting my time with this discussion.

Of course I’ve read Hayek, but these days he’s more likely to be taught in a history of philosophy course than in an economics course. If you were familiar with modern economics you would not be pulling out half-century-old arguments about the weakness of perfect competition as a model as if this was some sort of great revelation.

natusake said:
And economics courses today are the worse off because of that. As I said, Hayek's arguments apply even more strongly to attempts to do economics with mathematics. You can ignore that, but ignoring it doesn't refute it.

Malcolm wrote:
As far as political economy goes, Hayek’s Road to Serfdom certainly has a compelling argument against total central planning of economies, but even he softened with respect to social welfare programs, etc. On the other hand, his commitment to the “small state,” as Milanovich points out, requires proto-communist policies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 4:47 AM
Title: Re: Western Philosophy and emptiness
Content:
MiphamFan said:
Almogi interprets Rongzom, as understanding that Buddhas have no jnana at all.

stong gzugs said:
Thanks for sharing! Looks like a neat read.

Malcolm wrote:
Atisha took Candra very seriously.

stong gzugs said:
And how many centuries after Cāndrakīrti was Atisha? I don't know why you won't just concede the fact that Cāndrakīrti was not taken seriously in India for centuries after his death and that the prominence the rangtongpas ascribe to him is largely a byproduct of Tibetan polemics and politics.

Malcolm wrote:
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Secondly, we know that Candra created some discomfort in the Madhyamaka community, since 8th century authors like Jñānagarbha, as well as the translators of the Santipa's 11th century Madhyamakālaṃkara, complain about him, committed as they were to syllogistic arguments about emptiness, arguments that Candra shows are not the intention of Nāgārjuna, since the latter exclusively uses consequences nd not formal syllogisms. And then there is the famous debate between Candrakīrti and Candragomin.

In reality, Candra is just defending Buddhapalita against Bhavaviveka's criticism that the latter merely used a simple consequence, rather than formal negation, to refute the Samkhya assertion that effects exist in causes. Since Candra is merely defending Buddhapalita, this may account for a lack of commentarial interest, as Candra is just doing mop-up work, and establishing the final Madhyamaka view by resorting to many citations, which Buddhapalita uses sparingly. And it is not the case he was unknown in the 8th century, for example his Yuktiṣaṣṭikāvṛtti was translated by Jinamitra, Dānaśīla, Śīlendrabodhi, and Ye-shes-sde


stong gzugs said:
And, yes, still waiting on those plentiful quotes from Cāndrakīrti that patch the gaping holes in his views...

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha's experience of gnosis is greatly detailed in the PP sūtras, there is no reason for Candra to extensively comment on it. However he says things like:

"Since [a buddha's] mind is unimpeded with respect to everything, it is called "all knowing (sarvajñāna)."

I mean, what else could one possibly need to know about the experience of a buddha?

Candra's main interest is eliminating wrong views among Buddhists——that's the point of Madhyamaka anyway.

In any case, he discusses gnosis in his  Yuktiṣaṣṭikāvṛtti a bit more than in his other texts, apart from the MAV commentary (where there are 18 references to all-knowledge, 107 references to gnosis (jnāna) of various kinds, and so on). An essential component of nondual gnosis for Candra is compassion, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 3:26 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:


Zhen Li said:
Yeah, realistically, it won't happen. He has been calling it a "peaceful revolution," but he's likely to meet the same fate as his uncle if he tried that. But optimism has its benefits long-run (it's something that used to set the US apart from the rest of the world), and he'll at least raise awareness of these issues.

Malcolm wrote:
The former guy proved that the world was not ready for "peace." The minute he went about dismantling 75 years of diplomatic consensus, that was when the world started to move out of balance. Of course we can discuss the travesty of Iraq, Obama's timidity with respect to Syria and Russia, etc. But the present state of affairs is a direct result of TFG's incompetence in governance and affection for dictators. Thankfully, Biden, drawing on his 45 years in the house, senate, and time as VP, was able to reforge NATO, and because of Putin's folly, made it even stronger. Under his guidance, the US economy is very strong, inflation is under control, there are massive infrastructure projects all over the US, etc.

RFK has absolutely no experience in government, believes in strange things like 5G being a existential threat to everything, etc. The problem with Kennedy is not that he is completely crazy——he has worked for many things I believe strongly, indigenous rights, and so on. The problem with the guy is that he does not have an evidence-based view of many things. He has zero understanding of the Ukraine situation, thinks vaccines cause autism, etc. The list of bad ideas to which he is addicted is rather lengthy. Basically, the dude is a casualty of 1960's.

Finally, the idea that JFK was iced by the CIA is complete bollocks, just laughable, and the idea that if elected, he would suffer the same fate, equally febrile.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 2:54 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
ject said:
USD has lost 123.73% in same period - 100 USD in 1991 is equivalent to 223.73 in 2023. The value of US was more than halved by just average annual 2.55% inflation.

Malcolm wrote:
Tell me you don't understand inflation without telling me you do not understand inflation:

The dollar had an average inflation rate of 1.44% per year between 1801 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 2,294.70%. This means that today's prices are 23.95 times as high as average prices since 1801, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
....

RFK has no solutions for eliminating oligarchy. The only solution is to tax billionaires out of existence. Anything short of this is not a serious proposal.


ject said:
WOW!
Obliterating a group of people, via excessive taxation (literally robbing them), just because they took risks, built companies that create jobs and produce products you use and/or need directly or indirectly?  out of your country?

Malcolm wrote:
Umm, no, what you are saying is bullshit.

Taxation is not "robbing" people. In fact, during the period of the strongest economic growth in the US, the marginal tax rate for the wealthiest was, in 2020 dollars, 91% over 2 million in income. If you can't live on 2 million dollars a year, you are a total loser. This rate encouraged business growth.

When you account for all taxes, as professors Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Sucman did in their book, “The Triumph of Injustice,” the overall tax system in America is nearly flat, and the 400 taxpayers at the very top — billionaires, that is — pay the lowest overall rate. It was factual, not “demagoguery,” as some have charged, for President Biden to say that billionaires pay lower tax rates than their secretaries. 

No, America doesn’t drain the affluent. But the highly affluent — particularly, the top 1 percent — sure are draining the rest of us.

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/3894233-how-america-actually-taxes-the-affluent/#:~:text=Because%20the%20top%201%20percent,%27re%20getting%20%E2%80%9Csoaked.”

If 400 people want to leave the US, that's fine with me. The rest of us will do quite ok.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 18th, 2023 at 2:36 AM
Title: Re: How can a leftist be a Buddhist?
Content:
not_z said:
The 84 mahasiddhas would be beyond left or right. They would act in ways which would upset you just as much.


Sādhaka said:
Well I’m actually all over the map on political and social issues. Conservative in some areas, liberal in others, and moderate in some others.

Like OP here, I’m just always a bit puzzled as to how so many western Buddhists are leftists. Referring back to some of the truths written in DNS and Natusake’s posts on the first page of this thread, you’d think that there would be more variation among western Buddhists in their political and social views, instead of seemingly 70%+ leaning so far left

Malcolm wrote:
If you examine the Ratnavali, for example, you will discover that Nāgārjuna recommended universal health care, eliminating capital punishment, etc. The Buddha himself advocated for socially liberal policies——indeed, Buddha probably invented CRT when he castigated the varna system as a form of structural racism in Indian society, admitted women to the ordained Sangha and so on. In response, Buddhism met with strongest resistance from the Conservative element of Indian society, brahmins, who followd the Laws of Manu, etc. Thus, it is really no surprise whatsoever that Buddhism is popular amongst Liberals. Buddhism is not popular with the Left however, who generally follow some sort of materialist leanings, a hang over from Marx.

Thus, Buddhism is an inherently liberal doctrine, unlike Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Confuscism, Taoism, and so on. As Aryadeva points out, kings are fools.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 17th, 2023 at 5:35 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:


Zhen Li said:
Taxes are part of it, but for the oligarchs, it just results in capital flight with government complicity. In the UK, the remaining dukes maintain their wealth by shifting it off-shore or handing it onto their heirs in trusts, the government is complicit and stands by and lets this happen, while taxes for everyone else shoot through the roof. The issue corporatocracy-speaking is collusion and corruption between government and corporations. Dismantling the Military and Medical Industrial Complexes will require the development of oversight mechanisms and transparency. I don't really think a president can dismantle things in one or two terms, but he can change the way we think about what government does in the way FDR fundamentally transformed the US.

Malcolm wrote:
RFK is not a credible person who can begin such a process.

However, the first thing that needs to be done is to overturn Citizens United, outlaw PACs, etc., corporate lobbying, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 17th, 2023 at 5:27 AM
Title: Re: Western Philosophy and emptiness
Content:
stong gzugs said:
And I'd of course love to see all the Indian commentators who took him seriously, aside from Jayānanda, who I already mentioned. Anybody in his lifetime comment on his work? Anybody a decade after? A century, two centuries, after?

Malcolm wrote:
Atisha took Candra very seriously.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 17th, 2023 at 2:01 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
conebeckham said:
Kennedy will not get the nomination.


Sādhaka said:
He’s gaining steam:






People are starting to wake up to corporatocracy

Malcolm wrote:
RFK has no solutions for eliminating oligarchy. The only solution is to tax billionaires out of existence. Anything short of this is not a serious proposal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 17th, 2023 at 1:57 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
ject said:
It seems that Rep. James Comer wont let this just fade away.
The House Oversight and Reform Committee expects to uncover $20M-$30M in bribes received by the Biden family from foreign nationals during his time as VP.

The revelation was made by Rep. James Comer who suggested that the web of alleged bribes ran deeper than originally thought.

"There's more money that we are going to be able to identify that was transferred between foreign nationals and the Biden family."

"We have more bank records coming but we are going to exceed $10 million this week and I think we will get up between $20 and $30 million."
From Forbes (Oct 22, 2020)
....When Biden left the West Wing, the big money started coming. In 2017, the Bidens declared $11.1 million in total earnings, nearly twice as much in a single year as they had made in the previous 18 years combined. About $10 million of that flowed through two S-corporations called CelticCapri and Giacoppa.
Interesting indeed.

Malcolm wrote:
Some people like to fantasize, but Comer has no evidence, it’s bullshit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 9:11 PM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
All of my other points stand, unless you care to address them.

Lingpupa said:
Possibly. I'm not sure, as you make points that have no obvious connection to the things I was saying, and I think my points also stand.

But not to worry. I don't share your confidence in the structure of your thinking around these issues, but I don't imagine that my lack of conviction is of great concern.

Malcolm wrote:
Everything you objected to was addressed, including the VHS comment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 9:07 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:


Zhen Li said:
My larger point is that Biden and his family are terribly suspicious, and the Dems would be better off fielding Kennedy or, at the very least, another establishment Dem. The reason I would support Kennedy is that, among other things, he's the most pro-peace candidate, and a Liberal anti-establishment candidate would help to shake up the political landscape in general.

Malcolm wrote:
No, they are not suspicious. Hunter has a drug problem, everyone knows this. There is absolutely no evidence of wrong doing on President Biden’s part. The same people who claimed, against all evidence, the 2020 was stolen, are the same people concocting these lies.

Kennedy is a nutcase who will weaken the western alliance.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 9:02 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
No point in engaging if you're going to troll. Anyway, I wish you all a successful election and hope the US presidency ends up in good hands.

Malcolm wrote:
It's understandable, since the whole Burisma thing is a puton, found to be baseless by DOJ during the former adminstration:

Representative James R. Comer, the Kentucky Republican who is chairman of the Oversight Committee, made the announcement after summoning F.B.I. officials to Capitol Hill for a closed-door briefing on a document containing an unverified allegation of bribery against Mr. Biden when he was vice president. The Trump Justice Department investigated the allegation, which involved his son Hunter Biden’s dealings in Ukraine, in 2020, but prosecutors could not substantiate the claims, according to two people familiar with the matter...“What we’re talking about is secondhand hearsay,” Mr. Raskin said, adding, “That confidential human source said that he had no way of knowing about the underlying veracity of the things that he was being told...Representative Dan Goldman, Democrat of New York and a member of the Oversight Committee who examined allegations against Mr. Biden and Burisma as part of a House impeachment team in 2019, said the Republican narrative had fallen flat because Mr. Biden sought to crack down on corruption in Ukraine, not enable it.

“The facts are actually directly contrary to any of the Republican allegations,” Mr. Goldman said.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/us/politics/house-republicans-fbi-wray-contempt.html?searchResultPosition=1

ject said:
Here is some quotes regarding this so called investigation. It sure sounds like nothing was done. BTW, the women they mention, is now dead.
Giuliani revealed that he gave the DOJ “one witness … who is a woman, who is the chief accountant at this crooked company, Burisma.

“She was the wife of the former owner who died under suspicious circumstances. And, she was willing to give up all of the offshore bank accounts, including the Bidens’ accounts.

“She supervised the transfer of a lot more cash to the Bidens and other crooked politicians for Burisma.”

Cosby asked “Are you confident that now the House Committee is going to get to the bottom of that? Because that is stunning.”

“The reality is that we gave it to them in January of 2020, and the Pittsburgh US attorney was very interested,” Giuliani replied.

“And then in a very strange move, Barr took it away from him, gave it to the US attorney in Delaware. He didn’t do a damn thing about it,” he revealed.

“And the woman was under threat of death. So, we tried to put pressure on them to do something,” he explained.

Malcolm wrote:
When Rudy is your chief source of info…


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 8:55 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
BTW, inflation is now at a healthy 4%, which is average.


Sādhaka said:
If that’s true, then companies are price gouging like crazy under the guise of high inflation.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes and yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 9:30 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
My point was that it makes for some difficult debate points between Trump and Biden were that to happen, in what would have been an easy case of superiority of one over the other.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it does t make any difficult points. Trump engaged in a complex coverup, lasting over a year. He’s going to jail for it, under a law he designed for HRC. Ironic, no? You just repeated some right wing talking points, which are evidence free assertions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 9:24 AM
Title: Re: How can a leftist be a Buddhist?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
What people like ject seem to fail to grasp is that democracy and capitalism do not go hand in hand.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Well, as I mentioned before, capitalism

Malcolm wrote:
There is only capitalism at this point:

The fact that the entire globe now operates according to the same economic principles—production organized for profit using legally free wage labor and mostly privately owned capital, with decentralized coordination—is without historical precedent.

Capitalism, Alone.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 5:08 AM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:



Johnny Dangerous said:
Thanks, I did not know about the literal meaning.

I’ve always assumed this statement automatically connotes coming to a firm decision about the immeasurable value of the teachings themselves, fortunate circumstances to be exposed to them, the teacher etc.

So I figure that if someone does not have that, the question kind of answers itself…because the preliminary to the ‘deciding’ bit hasn’t happened yet.

I know I’ve had a couple teachings where as much as I respected the teacher, there’s was not enough of a connection for me to have any decisiveness -at the time-.

Malcolm wrote:
It means having no doubt about the primordial state due to,personal experience.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Right, but if one does not already have confidence in the teachings or teacher, how likely is that?

Malcolm wrote:
That’s why one applies methods until one is certain.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 5:03 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:


Shinjin said:
Remind us what happened in 2016

Malcolm wrote:
Past is not prologue in this case. People have been fleeing the GOP, especially women. In any case TFG is going down, as is proper for such a traitorous bastard.

Shinjin said:
Economy was booming and inflation was low under his administration. That's what the people want again regardless whether or not he was a traitorous bastard or whatever you want to call him.

Malcolm wrote:
BTW, inflation is now at a healthy 4%, which is average.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
“decides on one thing only”

Malcolm wrote:
Thag gcig thog tu bcad pa.

Interesting thing about this line is that it literally means "directly (thog tu) cutting (bcad pa) a single cord/rope/thread/line (thag gcig)."

When you are cutting a rope, you have to  decide to cut it, hence the connotation of "to decide" in Tibetan.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Thanks, I did not know about the literal meaning.

I’ve always assumed this statement automatically connotes coming to a firm decision about the immeasurable value of the teachings themselves, fortunate circumstances to be exposed to them, the teacher etc.

So I figure that if someone does not have that, the question kind of answers itself…because the preliminary to the ‘deciding’ bit hasn’t happened yet.

I know I’ve had a couple teachings where as much as I respected the teacher, there’s was not enough of a connection for me to have any decisiveness -at the time-.

Malcolm wrote:
It means having no doubt about the primordial state due to,personal experience.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 4:00 AM
Title: Re: How can a leftist be a Buddhist?
Content:
PeterC said:
Well, if you really follow Marx then you would want every country to commit to capitalism, because in his view the communist mode of production could only appear once we have gone to the limit of the capitalist mode of production, just as the capitalist mode of production itself was a consequence of the feudal mode of production.

Malcolm wrote:
As it turns out, Marx was right and wrong: Capitalism is a consequence of the feudalist mode of production; but communism is the fastest way for an undeveloped economy to transition to capitalism.

What people like ject seem to fail to grasp is that democracy and capitalism do not go hand in hand.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 3:24 AM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:


Tata1 said:
If chnn says that after empowerment if you have doubts about your state you have to apply the methods to re introduce yourself then thats it. Sames goes for Tulku urgyen and his sons.

Malcolm wrote:
I might be wrong, but i think Jules is implying two things: 1) Direct introductions work even if you imagine you didn't "get it" 2) If you truly believe you didn't get it, then you really didn't, and that practicing methods in such a deep state of doubt will be ineffective because one lacks faith in the process. This does happen, and it is either a sign of lack of faith or merit in the student. In this case, they should probably move on to a different teacher.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
“decides on one thing only”

Malcolm wrote:
Thag gcig thog tu bcad pa.

Interesting thing about this line is that it literally means "directly (thog tu) cutting (bcad pa) a single cord/rope/thread/line (thag gcig)."

When you are cutting a rope, you have to  decide to cut it, hence the connotation of "to decide" in Tibetan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 3:01 AM
Title: Re: 25000 Prajñāpāramitā release
Content:
Javierfv1212 said:
84000 released Pañcaviṃśatisāhasrikāprajñāpāramitā

Malcolm wrote:
Apart from the 8000 line sutra (the Tibetan version of which has permanent home on my shrine), the most important sutra of Mahāyāna.

Genjo Conan said:
I'm not disagreeing, but I'm curious what you base this statement on.

Malcolm wrote:
It has more commentaries written on it than any other sutra in the history of Buddhism, not to mention the prajñāpāramitā is the most definitive class of sutras of Mahāyāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: 25000 Prajñāpāramitā release
Content:
Javierfv1212 said:
84000 released Pañcaviṃśatisāhasrikāprajñāpāramitā

Malcolm wrote:
Apart from the 8000 line sutra (the Tibetan version of which has permanent home on my shrine), the most important sutra of Mahāyāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 2:45 AM
Title: Back in the USA II
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Saying the quiet part really loudly:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 2:32 AM
Title: Re: Would a Buddhist trader commit misconduct?
Content:


tingdzin said:
I believe it is odd that one would classify journalism as worse than finance, because, even taking into account the current degraded status of that profession (which is largely due to ideological rigidity powered by the profit motive), there are still a few honest journalists trying to write the news from an unbiased perspective.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a hilarious opinion——profit is precisely why journalism became objective to begin with. DId you ever consider that journalism is not the problem, rather, it is education which has degraded? Qualification——cable news is not journalism, it is infotainment only.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 1:42 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
No point in engaging if you're going to troll. Anyway, I wish you all a successful election and hope the US presidency ends up in good hands.

Malcolm wrote:
It's understandable, since the whole Burisma thing is a puton, found to be baseless by DOJ during the former adminstration:

Representative James R. Comer, the Kentucky Republican who is chairman of the Oversight Committee, made the announcement after summoning F.B.I. officials to Capitol Hill for a closed-door briefing on a document containing an unverified allegation of bribery against Mr. Biden when he was vice president. The Trump Justice Department investigated the allegation, which involved his son Hunter Biden’s dealings in Ukraine, in 2020, but prosecutors could not substantiate the claims, according to two people familiar with the matter...“What we’re talking about is secondhand hearsay,” Mr. Raskin said, adding, “That confidential human source said that he had no way of knowing about the underlying veracity of the things that he was being told...Representative Dan Goldman, Democrat of New York and a member of the Oversight Committee who examined allegations against Mr. Biden and Burisma as part of a House impeachment team in 2019, said the Republican narrative had fallen flat because Mr. Biden sought to crack down on corruption in Ukraine, not enable it.

“The facts are actually directly contrary to any of the Republican allegations,” Mr. Goldman said.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/us/politics/house-republicans-fbi-wray-contempt.html?searchResultPosition=1


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 1:24 AM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:
Lingpupa said:
My understanding is very weak, particularly where the unique features of the DC system are concerned. One thing I particularly fail to grasp is how it is possible to assert that someone who is honest enough to admit that s/he didn't know what was supposed to be going on and who didn't notice what you call DI taking place can be said to have received it.

Malcolm wrote:
Rig pa and mind are neither the same nor different. Even if you did not discover the “meaning wisdom” in a direct introduction, you still have the “example wisdom.” Of course a proper teacher is always communicating direct introduction from the perspective of the meaning wisdom, so anyone who participates has received all three transmissions-aural, symbolic, and direct-whether they recognized the direct transmission or not. This is also the principle of the fourth empowerment.

Lingpupa said:
Flim flam. Bala Bala bum bum. Confusion is non-confusion. Nothing is everything. Hearing one syllable from Yeshi's golden tongue is all anybody needs. Ignorance is not only bliss, it is wisdom. Can you get the example wisdom from a VHS tape of Yeshi saying "Guru Yoga'? Would you get DI if you were in a drunken stupor at the time?

Malcolm wrote:
Like any empowerment, active participation is required on the part of both teacher and student. So, no, one cannot give direct introduction to someone who is completely intoxicated.

If one understands the meaning and symbolism of that syllable, yes, that's all one needs. The job of a teacher is to explain that meaning and symbolism to the student.

Mind (sems) and pristine consciousness (ye shes),
are neither the same nor different.
They are phenomena that are difficult to differentiate.
The mind is the potential (rtsal) of pristine consciousness.
The basis of the mind is pristine consciousness.
Therefore, since mind and pristine consciousness
are both the same and different,
there is so-called liberation and nonliberation

-- Ever Present Tilaka Tantra.

All of my other points stand, unless you care to address them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 12:33 AM
Title: Re: Bambian Buddhas
Content:
reiun said:
Cash-strapped Taliban selling tickets to ruins of Buddhas it blew up

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/06/15/afghan-buddhas-taliban-bamian/

Malcolm wrote:
Ironic, the reason they blew it up was because UN money was going to restore rocks, rather than feed people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 12:24 AM
Title: Re: How can a leftist be a Buddhist?
Content:
PeterC said:
you can't proclaim, really, anything about 'capitalism' in generalities.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Except that more socialists are produced from capitalism than capitalists produced from socialism.

Malcolm wrote:
That's not actually true, theoretically or actually:

Here, however, the transformation from feudalism to capitalism took place under the control of an extremely powerful state, a different process from what happened in Europe and North America, where the role of the state was much less important and where countries were free of foreign interference.20 But this is a fundamental difference; and this difference in the role of the state explains why capitalism in China, Vietnam, and many other places, either in the past (South Korea) or currently (Ethiopia, Rwanda), has so often had an authoritarian edge to it.

The argument that communism was the system that enabled the transition from feudalism to indigenous capitalism in countries that were colonized or dominated by the West is also supported by the fact that communism was more successful in less-developed countries. When we measure the success of communism either by a crude growth rate or, preferably, by comparing the performance of communist countries against capitalist countries at the same level of development, we find a negative correlation between the income level of a country at the time when it became communist and its subsequent absolute growth rate, or its growth rate relative to its capitalist counterparts. In simple terms, this means that communism was least successful in developed industrial economies like East Germany and Czechoslovakia and most successful in poor agricultural societies like China and Vietnam.

Milanovic, Branko. Capitalism, Alone (pp. 82-83). Harvard University Press. Kindle Edition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 12:18 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Biden is under investigation for the same things Trump is;

Malcolm wrote:
By House Republicans?



By the people whose vapor witnesses vanish the minute they are supposed to appear?

Reported in Murdoch media?

For bragging about and showing highly classified documents in his possession to people with no clearance?

Dude, stop reading Murdoch, it’s rotting your otherwise fine mind.

PemaSherab said:
That witness died under very mysterious circumstances. He was investigating the documents that Biden returned (clutches pearls) and the last surviving copy of Hilary's emails, which were stored on Hunter's laptop in the basement of a pizza parlor. The Deep State (tm) got a weapons lock (via 5g signal) on the tracking chip that was implanted during his COVID vaccination. The Deep State (tm) vaporized him via their Jewish Space Laser (tm).

It's all part of the plan!!!

Malcolm wrote:
Trust the plan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 16th, 2023 at 12:14 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Biden is under investigation for the same things Trump is;

Malcolm wrote:
By House Republicans?



By the people whose vapor witnesses vanish the minute they are supposed to appear?

Reported in Murdoch media?

For bragging about and showing highly classified documents in his possession to people with no clearance?

Dude, stop reading Murdoch, it’s rotting your otherwise fine mind.

Zhen Li said:
I stated a fact, and then you and Cone added extra claims I didn't make.

Malcolm wrote:
You said Biden was being investigated for the same thing the TFG, that's not a fact. BIden didn't engage in a coverup, neither did Pence. TFG engaged in a really stupid coverup.

Zhen Li said:
The only regular news I read is The Times,

Malcolm wrote:
Of London? or NYT?


Zhen Li said:
This is just twisting things and reveals black-and-white thinking. I never said there are no "other factors." But you are suggesting SSRIs are not a factor, which is impossible to know without some objective third-party investigation. In any situation, there are a plethora of factors that contribute, and SSRIs can be considered. This is not the kind of thing where you can say X rather than Y in every case. Anyway, violence is known to be an effect of SSRIs, which is largely a settled matter.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no evidence of this. In other words, no one has looked at the medical records of these men to see if there is a correlation. RFK is just talking out his butt. Given his stance on vaccinations, there is every reason to have doubts about his other evidence-free assertions. This is not about SSRIs per se, this is about the reliability of RFK's opinions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 11:38 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Biden is under investigation for the same things Trump is;

Malcolm wrote:
By House Republicans?



By the people whose vapor witnesses vanish the minute they are supposed to appear?

Reported in Murdoch media?

For bragging about and showing highly classified documents in his possession to people with no clearance?

Dude, stop reading Murdoch, it’s rotting your otherwise fine mind.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 11:22 PM
Title: Re: Western Philosophy and emptiness
Content:
stong gzugs said:
What about that means a person will tirelessly devote their time to helping others?

PadmaVonSamba said:
Are you basically asking on what principle
does awakening (direct realization of emptiness)
launch compassion?

Does it create an “urge” to free others from samsara, and if so, why?

Is this the question?

stong gzugs said:
Yes, but specifically from the viewpoint of Cāndrakīrti. We have to remember that Cāndrakīrti's basically unable to provide any specificity about the actual (non)experience(?) of Buddhas. But he does say what it isn't, and that much enough is problematic. Because for Cāndrakīrti jñana is merely the non-arising of the mind paralleling the non-arising of any phenomena, then Buddhas not only don't even perceive the conventional reality like tables and chairs (because even perceptions are conceptually structured in his theory, unlike in Dharmakīrti's), but Buddhas also don't know ultimate reality either (because there's no mind to know and nothing to be known, as jñana is defined as an absence of mind, not asserted as something positive with its own qualities).

Where, in all this, do you get the ability and motivation to teach others? Consider ability: if Buddhas don't even see the conventional world, how do they interact with sentient beings to benefit them, as they don't even really see sentient beings which are part of conventional reality; and how could they use language, as they are without concepts that undergird all language? Because Buddhas don't know any thing, they can't really teach or benefit others. And even if you could somehow account for the ability, where does this motivation come from?

Surely Cāndrakīrti must have a good answer to these major problems in his system? No, not really. Cāndrakīrti's explanation of how Buddhas teach and benefit others is as vague and far-fetched as his explanations of what the Buddhas' experience of jñana is. In terms of ability, he roughly claims that form bodies are produced through accumulations of merit and the teachings emerge (in some mysterious unexplained way) as sounds from this non-arising of mind that knows nothing and has no content, and that these sounds aren't just coming from mouths but also from other random objects? What about motivation? The Buddhas don't have any mind any more, but back when they did, they were like potters spinning a wheel and had intentions to act to benefit others, and the wheel continues to spin even now that they have lost their minds that can create intentions to act. (So if the accumulations of merit and vows and intentions that produce the form bodies are dependently originated through action, won't the wheel eventually slow down and stop spinning, so Buddhas are also impermanent?). And if you really push him on this? Well, again another vague metaphor, he says there is no real ability or motivation to help others presently for Buddhas, but the Buddhas are instead like wish fulfilling gems that grant wishes and help mechanically, without using any mind or feeling of compassion whatsoever.

So, anybody is absolutely free to build their view around Cāndrakīrti and place their enlightenment in his hands. But I'm not really going to put my trust in someone who can't coherently explain the experience of Buddhas and how/why Buddhas benefit others, especially when he basically seems to be describing something akin to a zombie. These issues are well-known and there simply aren't good answers, even though people have offered their own convoluted fixes to these ideas. As I have said before, Cāndrakīrti wasn't a serious commentator in India, and had maybe only one Indian seriously engage with his ideas, Jayānanda, who points out these issues. Cāndrakīrti only became popularized in the Tibetan polemical context, especially promoted by Tsongkhapa, who had a very novel re-interpretation of Cāndrakīrti anyways, in part because of these issues. I get the sense that this conversation has wound itself down, and I've also lost steam on this to reply much further, but I find it funny that rangtongpas standing in this house of glass try to throw stones at gzhanstong. But this will have to be a conversation for another day!

Malcolm wrote:
Tell me you have not understood one word of Candra without telling me you have not understood one word of Candra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:


Shinjin said:
Remind us what happened in 2016

Malcolm wrote:
Past is not prologue in this case. People have been fleeing the GOP, especially women. In any case TFG is going down, as is proper for such a traitorous bastard.

Shinjin said:
Economy was booming and inflation was low under his administration. That's what the people want again regardless whether or not he was a traitorous bastard or whatever you want to call him.

Malcolm wrote:
The economy is doing just fine, lowest unemployment in history, etc. the stock market is not an index of economic health. The present inflation is largely a function of foolish tariff decisions in previous admin because these tariffs are just a tax on us citizens.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 10:56 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:


Shinjin said:
Red wave is imminent with Biden. You would lose the bet.

Malcolm wrote:
Yer trippin.

Shinjin said:
Remind us what happened in 2016

Malcolm wrote:
Past is not prologue in this case. People have been fleeing the GOP, especially women. In any case TFG is going down, as is proper for such a traitorous bastard.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 10:52 PM
Title: Re: No guru, no dzogchen?
Content:
Lingpupa said:
My understanding is very weak, particularly where the unique features of the DC system are concerned. One thing I particularly fail to grasp is how it is possible to assert that someone who is honest enough to admit that s/he didn't know what was supposed to be going on and who didn't notice what you call DI taking place can be said to have received it.

Malcolm wrote:
Rig pa and mind are neither the same nor different. Even if you did not discover the “meaning wisdom” in a direct introduction, you still have the “example wisdom.” Of course a proper teacher is always communicating direct introduction from the perspective of the meaning wisdom, so anyone who participates has received all three transmissions-aural, symbolic, and direct-whether they recognized the direct transmission or not. This is also the principle of the fourth empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 10:45 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Back to the OT, the most suspicious thing about Biden's campaign is that he doesn't appear to be campaigning at all, as if he knows he doesn't have a chance of winning the nomination or election. While RFK Jr would be my preferred candidate because he's pro-peace and anti-establishment, it is more likely a Democrat insider like like Gavin Newsom ends up on the ticket.

not_z said:
Appearing not to campaign is a very common strategy for sitting heads of state who want to appear above the frey, busy with governance. This is strategy is generally used when the oppositions seems to be a bit in disarray, the corollary being when the sitting president’s camp thinks it’s in a position of strength. A good recent example of it being used was by Macron in France.

Zhen Li said:
That's true, but it's also possible that he's not capable and doesn't have the endurance. There's a theory out there that Biden is actually highly capable but appearing to be senile as a strategy.

Malcolm wrote:
Unlikely. He is highly capable, and subject to absurd attacks on his character by nitwits.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 9:52 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:




Shinjin said:
I agree. Creepy Joe doesn't know what planet he's on half the time these days. The GOP will massacre the dems if he isn't replaced.

Archie2009 said:
There'll be no red wave. Even with the Dems embracing unpopular social justice initiatives like DEI, lingo like latinx, etc. GOP is too deranged, basically unelectable. Wanna bet?

Shinjin said:
Red wave is imminent with Biden. You would lose the bet.

Malcolm wrote:
Yer trippin.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 9:47 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:


Zhen Li said:
The video speaks for itself (6/14/23), that's not a stammer:

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it is. His stammer is audible in that video. And, Biden has running rings around the GOP for years. They, like you, underestimate him over trivialities. Considering the daily speech blunders of the TFG, even on that score, Biden rates well, as TFG has no speech impediment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 9:43 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
[He suggested we need to look into this, that most shooters are on SSRIs,

Malcolm wrote:
Like most of RFK’s batshit crazy conspiracy theories, this one is absolutely evidence-free.

ject said:
What do you mean by lack of evidence?
1) nobody has bothered to seriously investigate it, hence no evidence there is a connection

Malcolm wrote:
This.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 9:41 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Zhen Li said:
[He suggested we need to look into this, that most shooters are on SSRIs,

Malcolm wrote:
Like most of RFK’s batshit crazy conspiracy theories, this one is absolutely evidence-free.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 9:38 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:



Zhen Li said:
There’s plenty of evidence implicating Joe in Burisma’s dealings.

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely bullshit.

ject said:
Senator Chuck Grassley and Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky seem to think they have the evidence against Joe.
I started a new thread about Biden's adventures in Ukraine.

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely bullshit. More GOP vapor smears.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 15th, 2023 at 3:52 AM
Title: Re: How can a leftist be a Buddhist?
Content:
ject said:
By definition, leftism is anti religion. Full stop! (and yes, this includes Buddhism).
So, what's truly bizarre is to see leftist call themselves Buddhist.
Can someone explain this to me?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no monolithic “leftism.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 14th, 2023 at 10:43 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2024 part 2
Content:
Archie2009 said:
Asserting a Biden crime family doesn't reflect well on you and your preferred new sources. There is no evidence implicating Joe. He just has a lowlife son he loves too much and who is not involved in government.

Zhen Li said:
There’s plenty of evidence implicating Joe in Burisma’s dealings.

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely bullshit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 12th, 2023 at 11:52 PM
Title: Re: Dakini detection system?
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Oh I've got a worldly-Dakini detection system alright

In all seriousness, I think that Malcolm once posted here that there's no such thing as a 'worldly Dakini', not in the sense that most would think anyway.

But for argument's sake, perhaps a female who has received Empowerment yet hasn't yet had some level of realization could be considered a 'worldly Dakini', and any female who hasn't at least received Empowerment, could not be considered a Dakini at all, from a relative perspective...?

Malcolm wrote:
Wisdom dakinis do not abide in this world, according Self Arisen Vidya tantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 7th, 2023 at 9:10 PM
Title: Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Content:


Lingpupa said:
The conclusion is obvious: sadhana-free dzogchen is essentially a didactic ideal.

Malcolm wrote:
You are confusing Dzogchen practice with Dzogchen practitioners. Dzogchen practice does not entail sadhana practice, though many practitioners practice anuyoga sadhanas, etc., and even maintain monastic vows, because we don’t use Dzogchen as a limitation.

Lingpupa said:
And there was me thinking that dzogchen practice was the practice practiced by dzogchen practitioners. Thanks for clearing that up.

Malcolm wrote:
The point being that Dzogchen practice does not involve the two stages. Dzogchen practitioners might have various reasons to resort to practices from the lower vehicles, for example, keeping the fifth precept if they have a problem with alcohol.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 7th, 2023 at 9:07 PM
Title: Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Content:
yagmort said:
even if there are zero deity yogas in Vima Nyingthig, how do we know today it was not intended as strictly dzogchen proper text? -meaning whoever it was who composed Vima Nyinthig wasn't bothered to cover topics which were extensively discussed elsewhere and focused on dzogchen specificly?

are there any specific lines in Vima Nyingthig against Maha- and Anu- practices?

and if yes, then how do we reconsile these with the fact the Vimalamitra himself was Guhyagarbha and Vajrakila lineage holder?

if Vimalamitra did practice both Guhyagarbha and Vajrakilaya the whole notion of masters practicing dzogchen only looks questionable to me.

Kai lord said:
From a historical prospective, Vilāsavajra wrote in his work, Spar Khabs commentary to the Guhyagarbha Tantra, did mention Atiyoga (one of the earliest written references on Dzogchen) being separate from Mahayoga but he never make the former into the independent vehicle and insisted that the former is still dependent on the latter and emerges from it. Guru Rinpoche wrote Garland of views about seven Vehicles in which Atiyoga is seen as a separate (and probably independent from the rest) technique of the seventh vehicle.

Its not until Nupchen Sangye Yeshe in his famous anuyoga commentary, Armor Against Darkness,  that the arguments for Atiyoga as an independent vehicle totally divorce from Mahayoga and the  nine vehicle doxography really appeared as a formal debate.

Hence the movement to make Dzogchen an independent vehicle started even before the 17 tantras were formally written down. And as you can see, that debate continues till today.

Malcolm wrote:
And don’t forget Shri Simha being quoted by Manjushrikirti as being part of a group that dismissed the creation stage as being unnecessary, or for the timid, since the necessity of that is really what we are discussing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 7th, 2023 at 8:59 PM
Title: Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Content:


Lingpupa said:
The conclusion is obvious: sadhana-free dzogchen is essentially a didactic ideal.

Malcolm wrote:
You are confusing Dzogchen practice with Dzogchen practitioners. Dzogchen practice does not entail sadhana practice, though many practitioners practice anuyoga sadhanas, etc., and even maintain monastic vows, because we don’t use Dzogchen as a limitation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 5th, 2023 at 9:23 PM
Title: Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Content:


treehuggingoctopus said:
DW is somewhat unique in that it keeps returning to the argument about Dzogchen being or not being an entirely standalone path, intrinsically separate from tantra; two different worlds that may or may not be merged, at user's discretion. I have never heard it phrased exactly like that by any teacher, to be honest. Even the ones who often teach Dzogchen qua Dzogchen (including Bon lamas) will not use these words. When ChNN taught Longsal sadhanas, he did so because he thought they can both help one discover the state and help one develop one's Dzogchen practice, as he often said -- so no real separation here.

Does that mean one can practice Dzogchen and never ever touch tantra? Well, ChNN also taught us to do puja regularly, and he never forgot to transmit the so-called secondary practices (which of course become primary if one can combine them with moments of resting in the state). There are teachers, such as James Low or some Bon lamas, who very rarely teach tantra (James changed this recently, btw). They do practice tantra themselves, though. I think the row about Dzogchen being or not being a completely standalone path is mostly semantics, tbh. But can one skip tantra entirely, and do just Dzogchen? But why are we asking -- is it just mere curiosity, or is there a practical, practice-related reason (another good question would be, why one would want or need to do that?) In the end one just follows the advice of one's teacher(s), after all...

Malcolm wrote:
ChNN made it quite clear that Dzogchen was a stand alone path, not an add on to Vajrayana. He never taught pujas as absolute requirements or samayas. He did, as you say, teach many Dzogchen adjacent cycles, as supports, in keeping with Manjushrimitra’s observation that there is also an indirect path of dzogchen through symbols. But he always maintained Dzogchen is an independent vehicle, entirely self-sufficient and complete, like the other nine yanas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 5th, 2023 at 9:14 PM
Title: Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Content:
yagmort said:
even if there are zero deity yogas in Vima Nyingthig, how do we know today it was not intended as strictly dzogchen proper text? -meaning whoever it was who composed Vima Nyinthig wasn't bothered to cover topics which were extensively discussed elsewhere and focused on dzogchen specificly?

are there any specific lines in Vima Nyingthig against Maha- and Anu- practices?

and if yes, then how do we reconsile these with the fact the Vimalamitra himself was Guhyagarbha and Vajrakila lineage holder?

if Vimalamitra did practice both Guhyagarbha and Vajrakilaya the whole notion of masters practicing dzogchen only looks questionable to me.

Malcolm wrote:
One must make a distinction between practicing deity yoga as a complete path as opposed to using deity yoga for temporary benefits, like removing obstacles, life extension, and so on. One can use the two stages as a complete path, however that is not the path of Dzogchen proper.

The distinction is between employing sems as the path or ye shes as the path. The former is based on concepts, the latter is based direct perception.

Lingpupa said:
So Vimalamitra WAS practicing Guhyagarbha and Vajrakilaya, but he wasn't REALLY practicing them, so it doesn't count?

Philosophy 101, anyone?

Malcolm wrote:
Many teachers maintain lineages they don’t primarily practice because they contain important teachings. For example, Guhyagarbha has an important chapter on Dzogchen, chapter 13. That does not mean that Vimalamitra’s path was Guhyagarbha. Vimalamitra primarily spent his time practicing rushen, trekcho, and thogal.

There are also lineages of Yamantaka, Zhitro, etc., that descend from Garab Dorje, but he wasn’t practicing these. He didn’t need to.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 4th, 2023 at 9:04 PM
Title: Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Content:
yagmort said:
even if there are zero deity yogas in Vima Nyingthig, how do we know today it was not intended as strictly dzogchen proper text? -meaning whoever it was who composed Vima Nyinthig wasn't bothered to cover topics which were extensively discussed elsewhere and focused on dzogchen specificly?

are there any specific lines in Vima Nyingthig against Maha- and Anu- practices?

and if yes, then how do we reconsile these with the fact the Vimalamitra himself was Guhyagarbha and Vajrakila lineage holder?

if Vimalamitra did practice both Guhyagarbha and Vajrakilaya the whole notion of masters practicing dzogchen only looks questionable to me.

Malcolm wrote:
One must make a distinction between practicing deity yoga as a complete path as opposed to using deity yoga for temporary benefits, like removing obstacles, life extension, and so on. One can use the two stages as a complete path, however that is not the path of Dzogchen proper.

The distinction is between employing sems as the path or ye shes as the path. The former is based on concepts, the latter is based direct perception.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 4th, 2023 at 11:21 AM
Title: Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Content:
Lingpupa said:
Not to flog a dead horse, but whereas it's obvious that an approach to the essential practices of dzogchen might typically start by establishing the view, and doing THAT through shamatha, vipassana and their unification, there really do seem to be a few people who assert the possibility of jumping directly into trekcho and thogal without preliminary sadhana and the like. But having given enough time for someone to provide references to acknowledged, non-mythical, living dzogchen practitioners who do not and have not practiced extensive sadhana,
there has been nothing but an assertion that my estimate (i.e. that sadhana-free dzogchen doesn't get a lot of credence outside certain corners of the internet) is a mis-estimate, and a claim that they somehow must be there somewhere.

What's now more than clear, even if some are found at this stage, that such practioners are rare as garudas' teeth. My curiosity is satisfied.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 3rd, 2023 at 8:38 PM
Title: Re: Back in the USA...
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
Terrorism, which was covertly supported by MOTF as you say, was certainly there and certainly influential but it was not the only thing and not even the main thing. Without the Ministry in its official role, the terrorism could have achieved nothing constructive.

Never mind. Re-read it, bearing in mind that it will be a different book next time, or not.


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
So you support terrorism.


Kim O'Hara said:
That's a huge jump from what I actually said.
And you present it as a flat statement, not even a question.

No, I don't support terrorism. I don't participate in it, I don't fund it, and I don't advocate for it.

That said, there are times when bad things produce good results (most karma is mixed, after all) and I do believe in accepting the good and making the best possible use of it. Letting it go to waste makes the whole thing negative, doesn't it?

In MOTF, as in real life, the world needs both the carrot and the stick to make the necessary changes. In the book, terrorism was a big stick (there were others). The Ministry provided carrots - planted carrots, if you like.


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
As ever, the problem is political, not science. That said, I see no real change at all, and remain unconvinced that draconian measures will succeed in stimulating the requires changed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 3rd, 2023 at 3:45 AM
Title: Re: Is this sexual misconduct?
Content:
chrishaigh said:
Hello,
I've just joined this site to ask a specific question that's been bothering me.
I'm a middle-aged married man, father to a young son, and lead a pretty contented life, very much a family man. I consider myself a Buddhist and think it has helped me greatly in terms of day-to-day life - I'm never envious of what others have, for example, and have become far less judgmental than I used to be. To me, Buddhism makes a lot of practical sense and certainly makes life better. I do try to be good to people, without being sanctimonious.
Well in case you haven't guessed where this is leading, I meet up with another woman every couple of weeks. She is also married. It is very enjoyable and consensual on both sides and something both of us need for its own sake, with no strings attached. At the time I never feel guilty about it in the least, even though I know it would hurt my wife a great deal if she knew. Since nobody is ever likely to find out, though, I tell myself it's a harmless, occasional pleasure that simply fills a physical need in life.
I've never tried to write this down before, and now that I have I must say it looks pretty awful.
I'm not trying to convince myself I'm right, but maybe some of you could convince me why it's wrong? I don't drink or smoke or gamble, and I do try hard to help others, so is giving in to this one human weakness such a bad thing? And how would I go about giving it up? That's the really tough part.
I look forward to any replies, thank you.

Malcolm wrote:
Most definitely sexual misconduct. You owe it to your wife to tell her the truth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 2nd, 2023 at 8:46 PM
Title: Re: Back in the USA...
Content:


Kim O'Hara said:
You might need to read the definition again. Chopping it off the end off my post when you quote me doesn't change it.


You might need to read the book again.
The major driver of change in the book is UN action in response to a particularly horrific heatwave.


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
The only thing that caused change was stochastic terrorism, which was covertly supported by MOTF.

Kim O'Hara said:
Terrorism, which was covertly supported by MOTF as you say, was certainly there and certainly influential but it was not the only thing and not even the main thing. Without the Ministry in its official role, the terrorism could have achieved nothing constructive.

Never mind. Re-read it, bearing in mind that it will be a different book next time, or not.


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
So you support terrorism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 2nd, 2023 at 12:24 PM
Title: Re: Back in the USA...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
And I am still saying that autarkies are by definition autocratic.

Kim O'Hara said:
You might need to read the definition again. Chopping it off the end off my post when you quote me doesn't change it.

Malcolm wrote:
Also, the major driver of change in MOTF is terrosim.

Kim O'Hara said:
You might need to read the book again.
The major driver of change in the book is UN action in response to a particularly horrific heatwave.


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
The only thing that caused change was stochastic terrorism, which was covertly supported by MOTF.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 1st, 2023 at 8:46 PM
Title: Re: Western Philosophy and emptiness
Content:


stong gzugs said:
You further say that the buddha qualities spontaneously arise from resting in gnosis, but that doesn't logically follow.

Malcolm wrote:
1) Are buddha qualities the same as or different than omniscience? If they are the same, then the elimination of affliction through realizing emptiness free of extremes and attainment of omniscience are the same thing, just as raising a lamp in the dark room dispels darkness that’s been there for 1000 years. 1) if they are different than omniscience, than what are they? Where do they exist in the five aggregates that define a sentient being?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 1st, 2023 at 10:03 AM
Title: Re: Western Philosophy and emptiness
Content:
stong gzugs said:
the śunyatā-bimba)?

Malcolm wrote:
At which point in the five paths does one experience “reflections of emptiness (stong pa’i gzugs bsnyan)?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 1st, 2023 at 2:36 AM
Title: Re: Mandalas and visualization
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This is a complicated question because the generation stage involves many parts, with bases of purification, purifiers, and results of purification.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, May 31st, 2023 at 9:20 PM
Title: Re: Back in the USA...
Content:


Kim O'Hara said:
Not really, when you look at the definition - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky - and compare it to MOTF.
The Ministry of the title is in fact a UN body, and the whole project could not work without it.
The book's model is more of a mixed system, with big government driving a partial shift from market economies and bureaucratic dictatorships (a better term for most "communist" governments) towards regionalism and local control with socialist elements.


Kim


Malcolm wrote:
It precisely is this, “generally in an effort to build alternative economic structures or to control resources against structures a particular movement views as hostile.”

Kim O'Hara said:
Yes, that motivation applies to MOTF's plan. But autarky more broadly* is an attempt to establish self-sufficiency, independence, and the Ministry's reach is global so there is nothing left over to be independent from.

I'm still saying it's a mixed economic model.

Malcolm wrote:
And I am still saying that autarkies are by definition autocratic.

Also, the major driver of change in MOTF is terrosim.


