﻿Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 17th, 2022 at 12:14 AM
Title: Re: What do you call a gift of respect to someone more accomplished than you?
Content:
2ndchance said:
just because the health tonic has an alcoholic content of 14%?

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on the monk.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 16th, 2022 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Reversing Global Warming - Science and Politics
Content:
Dharmasherab said:
Plants do need carbon dioxide. Without carbon dioxide plants cant make glucose. If there was no carbon dioxide in the atmosphere then food production would diminish considerably.

Malcolm wrote:
Too much atmospheric carbon dioxide makes some plant foods less nutrient-rich:
Likewise, a landmark study in 2018 found that growing rice in high-CO2 conditions makes it less nutritious. As a basic grain, rice plays a critical role in feeding the world’s population. The extra CO2 caused an imbalance within the crop’s chemical makeup, which resulted in rice that had lower amounts of protein, iron, zinc, and B-vitamins. “The entire elemental balance is out of whack,” explained plant physiologist Lewis Ziska, an author of the study. This result is yet another example of how the recipe of nature is being disrupted by excess CO2.
https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2020/12/more-co2-in-the-atmosphere-hurts-key-plants-and-crops-more-than-it-helps/


Dharmasherab said:
In addition to ignoring the long-term outlook, he says, many skeptics also fail to mention the potentially most harmful outcome of rising atmospheric CO2 on vegetation: climate change itself. Its negative consequences—such as drought and heat stress—would likely overwhelm any direct benefits that rising CO2 might offer plant life. “It’s not appropriate to look at the CO2 fertilization effect in isolation,” he says. “You can have positive and negative things going at once, and it’s the net balance that matters.” So although there is a basic truth to skeptics’ claim, he says, “what’s missing from that argument is that it’s not the whole picture.”

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ask-the-experts-does-rising-co2-benefit-plants1/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 16th, 2022 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
The great mass of people will therefore be surplus to requirements.

Malcolm wrote:
World population is already headed in the other direction.

And face it, we have no idea what the world will look like in 2122.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 16th, 2022 at 11:19 PM
Title: Re: How do you feel about Buddhists getting involved in politics?
Content:


Dharmasherab said:
His advice to rulers was within the realms of the Dharma especially in relations to matters on Sila. So in a way one could see that he was encouraging rulers to be more ethical with what they are doing. The same goes for his advice and recommendation when it comes to doing occupations which doesn't involve breaking precepts.

Malcolm wrote:
In a democracy, the people are the rulers, so we can take this advice ourselves.

Dharmasherab said:
But it doesnt mean that he was a Social Justice Warrior either which is the way today's modern progressive liberals engage in.

Malcolm wrote:
Please define your terms, what exactly is negative about social justice, and why should one not fight for it?


Dharmasherab said:
This is the way today's liberals try to hijack Buddhism to use Buddhist groups as instruments to propagate their ideology. The greater interest among them is with their politics and less interest in in the Dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
I notice that you fail to criticize conservatives who do the same thing, that is, hijack Buddhism to propagate their ideology, for example, in Śrī Lanka, Burma, and so on.


Dharmasherab said:
Spiritual bypassing - Its just another shame tactic for those who want to fully focus on the Dharma and not engage with worldly matters such as politics. Today's global politics involves waging wars and putting populations in debt. Buddhists are best to keep distance from that. Definitions don't mean much. The map is not the territory.

Malcolm wrote:
You are like a man who prefers to keep himself warm at his own stove, but chooses to ignore the fact that his whole neighborhood is on fire.

Dharmasherab said:
Not getting involved in politics is not the same as avoiding politics.

Malcolm wrote:
Pretty much the same.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 16th, 2022 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: Extinction as a result of global warming
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
All views are not equal, if they were, it wouldn't matter if one was a Buddhist or a Christian as far as liberation goes. This also applies to politics, where some views, the views of liberals who are committed to democracy, are better than the views of others, such as conservatives, who are not committed to democracy and never have been.

Dharmasherab said:
When it comes to religion this is correct. But when it comes to politics it doesn't matter given that politics will always let us down. Liberalism hasn't made the world a better place.

Malcolm wrote:
Liberalism most certainly has made the world a better place. The examples are legion. The fact that you can communicate your ideas without fear that some governmental authority will arrest you is an example of the benefits of liberalism you overlook.

Dharmasherab said:
Actually in one year abortion became the number one cause of death around the world and this is partly due to the popularity of liberal ideals.

Malcolm wrote:
Since you don't care about the sufferings of countless myriads of nonhuman sentient beings, and see no reason at all to be concerned about mass extinctions, why care about abortions? Your nihilism is quite obvious.

Dharmasherab said:
By considering that Buddhists who are liberals are more sensible than conservative Buddhists you are creating a the grounds for further division among Buddhists.

Malcolm wrote:
There has always been division amongst Buddhists. It's baked in. The Buddha anticipated this.

Dharmasherab said:
What is liberalism today will not be the liberalism in another 2 decades or more. The same labels will be used over and over again but their meanings would change. Todays liberals are for censorship and authoritarianism which is more aligned with fascism than with democracy.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a very silly statement. I am by all considerations a liberal, and I am neither for censorship nor authoritarianism. Quite the opposite.

Dharmasherab said:
This is part of the reason why I am no longer of the left and I left the left.

Malcolm wrote:
What is considered "left" today was considered centrist 50 years ago. I have recently been informed by another participant on this forum, much to my surprise, that the Civil Rights movement the United States was a "hard left" political movement.

Dharmasherab said:
When it comes to being Buddhist what political party you support is not much different from which football team you support.

Malcolm wrote:
This is quite naive, in my opinion. There are no consequences to being a supporter of Man United, for example. There are many consequences if one supports the Tories in England, for example, or the GOP in the United States.

Dharmasherab said:
Its the Buddhist teachings that really matter, other forms of knowledge whether that is communism, socialism or capitalism are samsaric forms of knowledge and practice and will only lead to suffering and disappointment.

Malcolm wrote:
Communism, capitalism, and socialism are not forms of knowledge, they are economic systems. At present, it is quite clear that a mixed economy, one constituted of a mixture of capitalism and socialism, is best for people.

The problem with your point of view, is that by utterly withdrawing from your civic responsibilities, you are abdicating your responsibility to help the myriad sentient beings who cannot help themselves and protect themselves from our economic activity. It is as if you don't care at all about sentient beings because you do not care about the environment. So we are right where we started. You clearly don't care about the happiness and wellbeing of the myriads of sentient beings on this planet and see no reason at all to act to mitigate and reverse the present climate crisis we have caused as a species. Sadly, you have confused nihilism for Buddhadharma. You really need to work on that bodhicitta.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 16th, 2022 at 5:09 AM
Title: Re: Please Enlighten Me Regarding Ngondro Variations 🙏
Content:
Archie2009 said:
Sweet or salty?

Malcolm wrote:
Parmesan and truffle oil.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 16th, 2022 at 4:35 AM
Title: Re: Please Enlighten Me Regarding Ngondro Variations 🙏
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 16th, 2022 at 1:17 AM
Title: Re: Can you conceive of a scenario where it turns out Nagarjuna was wrong (ex: not all things are empty, or otherwise)?
Content:


Miorita said:
On a relative level, the Sun is a permanent object/being who shines.

Malcolm wrote:
There are no permanent objects on the relative level, the sun included.

Miorita said:
Lavoisier does not agree with you.

Malcolm wrote:
Lots of people did not agree with Nāgārjuna, but they were all wrong.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 15th, 2022 at 9:04 PM
Title: Re: Does shedra style debate have any place in the Dzogchen tradition?
Content:
dharmafootsteps said:
As the title says, is this kind of debate useful to sharpen your conceptual understanding given that Dzogchen is predicated on direct perception?

Malcolm wrote:
In Buddhism, no. In Bon, yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 15th, 2022 at 9:48 AM
Title: Re: Deism - An Error
Content:
Shinjin said:
Richard Nixon was a Deist too.

Malcolm wrote:
Not exactly. He was a Quaker. But I am pretty sure the Quakers were not fans of Epicurus.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 15th, 2022 at 7:47 AM
Title: Re: Is there an atman in your school? (Shentong)
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
Cite a source please?

Malcolm wrote:
A conversation I had with Khenpo in 1992 at the Newton Dharmadhātu, when he was teaching a program there.

Anders said:
They are quite similar. And why not? Shankara was greatly inspired by Nagarjuna.

Malcolm wrote:
Gzhan stong is not the view of Nagarjuna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 15th, 2022 at 7:44 AM
Title: Re: Deism - An Error
Content:
Queequeg said:
I guess I'm wondering about the experience through which one comes to this view. Owsley said this Alchemist book explained what he had experienced on LSD.

What are the errors in interpreting an experience that might lead to a conception of a Creator? We're not talking about someone with a https://youtu.be/i1Nh_3JCFj8 of God. I suppose its too much speculate about Owsley in particular, or anyone in particular.

The way I'm thinking about it now -

1. There is the error of assuming the subject-object dichotomy.
2. There is the error of assuming that some particular object is the fundamental source of one's own consciousness and that of all others.

Thinking out loud on the keyboard here.

Kim O'Hara said:
For as long as I've had an opinion on the matter (i.e. decades), I have believed that the "standard mystical experience" (unity of creation, floating in a sea of light, universal beneficence, etc) is pretty much universal, and independent of the experiencer's religious background; but that it is beyond words and afterwards, the experiencer needs to put it into words to try to communicate it - even, perhaps, to try to remember it.

Malcolm wrote:
Such descriptions are notably absent in Buddhist literature. One of things we learn right off of the bat in Buddhadharma, in all schools, is that experiences are transient and not very important. Realization, on the other hand is not transient and is very importantl.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 15th, 2022 at 7:40 AM
Title: Re: Can you conceive of a scenario where it turns out Nagarjuna was wrong (ex: not all things are empty, or otherwise)?
Content:


Miorita said:
On a relative level, the Sun is a permanent object/being who shines.

Malcolm wrote:
There are no permanent objects on the relative level, the sun included.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 15th, 2022 at 4:14 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Konchog Thogme Jampa said:
In England too in the East Midlands

Malcolm wrote:
Obviously it is time for the Butlerian Jihad.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 15th, 2022 at 3:52 AM
Title: Re: Can you conceive of a scenario where it turns out Nagarjuna was wrong (ex: not all things are empty, or otherwise)?
Content:
Aemilius said:
Chandrakirti says somewhere that Niravana is a conventional truth. Humanity is a population, and a society. Language and knowledge exist in a society, in a population.

Malcolm wrote:
"Convention" (vyavahāra) refer to the appearances of ordinary life, not the designations of those appearances. This is a poorly understood point of Madhyamaka. If it were true that "convention" referred to designations, then polka-dotted elephants would appear simply by named.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 15th, 2022 at 3:09 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
KristenM said:
A little robot running down the sidewalk making food deliveries.

Malcolm wrote:
Somehow, this just brings out my inner Luddite.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 15th, 2022 at 12:06 AM
Title: Re: Deism - An Error
Content:
Queequeg said:
For Owsley, The Kybalion “was perfect because it put into total context all the things I had experienced on acid. The universe is a creation entirely within a being that is outside time and space, and dreaming what we are. Everything is connected, because it’s all being created by this one consciousness. And we are tiny reflections of the mind that is creating the universe. That’s what alchemy says.”
https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/owsley-stanley-the-king-of-lsd-82181/ (interesting read)

What is a Buddhist critique of that view? I have some ideas, but curious how others would unpack that.

Malcolm wrote:
It is a nonbuddhist view. There is no universal consciousness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 15th, 2022 at 12:02 AM
Title: Re: Deism - An Error
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Deism actually is the view attributed to the materialist philosopher Epicurus, through the latin poem of Lucretius. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/lucretius/

In section six, the attitude of Epicureans to religion is discussed:
Lucretius presents Epicurus’ chief achievement as the defeat of religio. Although this Latin word is correctly translated into English as ‘religion’, its literal meaning is ‘binding down’, and it therefore serves Lucretius as a term, not for all attitudes of reverence towards the divine, but for those which cow people’s spirits, rather than, as he thinks such attitudes should, elevate them to a joyful state of tranquility


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 8:37 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:



ManiThePainter said:
Then heed your own advice.

For the sake of keeping the dialogue going, I will confess that I was being overly aggressive in my rhetoric about Christian political ambition in the beginning of the thread or at least that I made a monolithic entity out of them. I still think that there’s a danger to democracy coming from the political aspirations of many Christians though.

Malcolm wrote:
Christianity is antidemocratic by nature. It goes all the way back to Paul.

ManiThePainter said:
I cannot speak for Catholicism and Protestantism since my forté was related to the Eastern Orthodox Byzantines (both before and after the Ottoman conquest), and even then my knowledge of the intersection of theology and politics is weak (I know vastly more about Muslim theology and political theory) but suffice to say that for the Byzantines they considered faith and politics to be wed in the form of the Christian Roman emperors.

That being said, I find many Christian movements in North America very disturbing from a Western European point of view.

Malcolm wrote:
Of interest:
Sessions says the Bible justifies separating immigrant families. The verses he cited are infamous.
The passage has been seen as an unequivocal order for Christians to obey authority, has been used to justify Southern slavery, authoritarian rule in Nazi Germany and South African apartheid.
By Kyle Swenson
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/06/15/sessions-says-the-bible-justifies-separating-immigrant-families-the-verses-he-cited-are-infamous/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 8:10 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
listening and reading with an open mind is necessary.

ManiThePainter said:
Then heed your own advice.

For the sake of keeping the dialogue going, I will confess that I was being overly aggressive in my rhetoric about Christian political ambition in the beginning of the thread or at least that I made a monolithic entity out of them. I still think that there’s a danger to democracy coming from the political aspirations of many Christians though.

Malcolm wrote:
Christianity is antidemocratic by nature. It goes all the way back to Paul.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 6:37 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:



KeithA said:
Ah well, it will be just a matter a time before this is locked, so I will throw in my two sense. This is bullying. This is chastising someone for not toeing the DW company line. This is exactly what I am talking about. But, bring it. I won't be bowed. Tired of the nonsense.

I made a simple point. That in my opinion, 1/6 was motivated by racism, and I also chose not to join in the Christian blame train, which is doctrinal here, by virtue of Malcolm's opinion. Then the minions jump in, to support the bullying. It happens over and over. If you cross Malcolm, you will pay. Everybody knows this, I am just saying it out loud. And no, I won't apologize for voicing this opinion.

Ah well, round and round. I do think a lot of this medium based. If we were sitting in the tea room talking, it would be much more civil.

_/|\_
Keith

Norwegian said:
I really don't see what it is that you think you see is taking place here. Honestly, a lot of posts here wouldn't be necessary if you could communicate clearly with people instead of speaking vaguely and not actually answering people's questions.

KeithA said:
It's a two way street friend...listening and reading with an open mind is necessary.

Malcolm wrote:
It seems you just want people to agree with you. I could care less if people agree with me. I am just expressing my opinion. Our opinions differ. The difference between you and me, apparently, is that I have never felt bullied on an internet forum in my life, no matter how many people disagree with me, en massé or individually.

Apparently, when several people disagree with you and express similar points of view, you feel a need to identify a ring leader and then castigate the rest of the people with whom you are having a discussion as that person's minions. SMH.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 6:29 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:



ManiThePainter said:
You reiterated that a “hard left turn” had led to some people leaving your sangha. You did not say what a “hard left turn” entailed.

Malcolm wrote:
Apparently Keith thinks the civil rights movement (aka the social justice movement) is hard left, since that's all he has said about it:

KeithA said:
I have chafed mightily as my larger Sangha has drifted into the realm of social justice and the various strains of identiy politics
I personally know 4 people who no longer practice with the Sangha due to the hard left turn we have taken.
Ah well, it will be just a matter a time before this is locked, so I will throw in my two sense. This is bullying.

Malcolm wrote:
I am sorry you feel bullied by your own words.

KeithA said:
Then the minions jump in, to support the bullying. It happens over and over. If you cross Malcolm, you will pay. Everybody knows this, I am just saying it out loud. And no, I won't apologize for voicing this opinion.



Malcolm wrote:
What were you saying about "we" and "they"?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 6:20 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
Konchog Thogme Jampa said:
Never got Marx never did it for me

Malcolm wrote:
Marx has some pretty funny things to say at the end of Capital about British colonials in Burma. But mostly it is a snore of a book.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 5:38 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
Already answered the question, friend. Nothing left to say on the subject.

ManiThePainter said:
You reiterated that a “hard left turn” had led to some people leaving your sangha. You did not say what a “hard left turn” entailed.

Malcolm wrote:
Apparently Keith thinks the civil rights movement (aka the social justice movement) is hard left, since that's all he has said about it:

KeithA said:
I have chafed mightily as my larger Sangha has drifted into the realm of social justice and the various strains of identiy politics
I personally know 4 people who no longer practice with the Sangha due to the hard left turn we have taken.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 4:37 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:



ManiThePainter said:
I’m very curious what it means for your sangha to have turned “hard left.” Is it expressing solidarity with African-Americans protesting police brutality and with people who suffer from gender dysphoria? If so, is this different from expressing solidarity with Christians who vaguely share some tenets of faith with Buddhists?

Malcolm wrote:
Just shows how far right Americans have drifted when they think "hard left" means BLM. It used to mean Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin.

Brunelleschi said:
Well, Patrisse Cullors is a marxist (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Malcolm wrote:
Bernie, by Faux News standards is far or hard left. By leftwing standards he is center left. BLM is center left. Marxism itself has various shades of left, soft pink to crimson red.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 4:14 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
I personally know 4 people who no longer practice with the Sangha due to the hard left turn we have taken.

ManiThePainter said:
I’m very curious what it means for your sangha to have turned “hard left.” Is it expressing solidarity with African-Americans protesting police brutality and with people who suffer from gender dysphoria? If so, is this different from expressing solidarity with Christians who vaguely share some tenets of faith with Buddhists?

Malcolm wrote:
Just shows how far right Americans have drifted when they think "hard left" means BLM. It used to mean Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 3:47 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


KeithA said:
As far as the last sentence goes, I stand by my words, as I feel they accurately describe what happens when the orthodox Dharmawheel position is veered away from.

Malcolm wrote:
It isn't "groupthink," what you are witnessing is a natural consensus which is not governed by any one person. "Groupthink" requires an authoritarian arbiter of opinion. That does not exist here.

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Cohesiveness, or the desire for cohesiveness, in a group may produce a tendency among its members to agree at all costs.

That does not describe Dharmawheel's members. No one really gives a flying f**k about harmony and cohesiveness here, least of all me.

Also, there is no "orthodox" Dharmawheel position on anything.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 3:42 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
I don't blame Christians for 1/6.

Malcolm wrote:
Neither do I. I blame Christian Dominionists. As Sara Posner https://www.salon.com/2011/08/21/posner_nar_dominionism/:

If people really understood dominionism, they'd worry about it between election cycles.

KeithA said:
That's not what motivates them, though. It's simple racism. It's the glue that binds Trumpism.

Malcolm wrote:
I disagree. I think an extremist version of Christianity does motivate them, just as an extremist version of Islam motivates followers of ISIS, just as an extremist version of Buddhism motivates the junta in Myanmar, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 3:06 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
Brunelleschi said:
https://fpmt.org/lama-zopa-rinpoche-news-and-advice/lama-zopa-rinpoche-news/unveiling-and-blessing-of-saint-francis-of-assisi-statue-at-the-great-stupa-of-universal-compassion/

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. And?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: What is the motivation for Tibetan Buddhists to join the monastics?
Content:
Brunelleschi said:
I think you have misunderstood this. If you are a monk or nun, you are not allowed to work.

Malcolm wrote:
Not so. Bodhisattva bhikṣus are not obligated to follow this rule, just as they are allowed to handle money, farm, have possessions, property, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 2:05 AM
Title: Re: Can you conceive of a scenario where it turns out Nagarjuna was wrong (ex: not all things are empty, or otherwise)?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I cannot image an object that is permanent, so no.

Malcolm wrote:
How about a permanent subject?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 12:27 AM
Title: Re: Can you conceive of a scenario where it turns out Nagarjuna was wrong (ex: not all things are empty, or otherwise)?
Content:
Dgj said:
Can you conceive of, or agree that someone else could conceive of a hypothetical scenario where dependent origination, emptiness, etc. are entirely false and disproven?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope. I mean, I can conceive that someone might have this mistaken idea.

Dgj said:
Or, do you feel that Nagarjuna's teaching, and the teaching in general that everything is empty, impermanent, etc. is irrefutable, and incontrovertibly true?

Malcolm wrote:
Yup.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 14th, 2022 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


KeithA said:
"We" and "they", the source of all wars.

Malcolm wrote:
As a matter of pragmatics, there will always be "we" and "they" because that's just how sentient beings roll. Therefore, it is useful to understand who are "we" and who are "they." At this point in the history of the US,  Christians are "we," Buddhists are "they." You and I are fortunate to live in the Northeast were "we" is considerably more tolerant of "they" than in other places in the US, by your own admission.

KeithA said:
Not really in interested in worldly pragmatics in this context. Sure, if someone breaks into my house, I will engage in some worldly self-defense. And I'll also vigorously oppose the policies that this "they" support.  But, in the end, as has already been pointed to me, this is a Buddhist forum. "We" and "they" are destructive ideas when it comes to practice.

Malcolm wrote:
This is the "news, politics, and other hot topics forum." The Kumbhaya forum is over there... The discussion here is discussing the danger to democracy that the Christian Right represents.

Heather Cox Richardson wrote this last night:

This evening, Senate Majority Leader Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) announced that he would bring voting rights legislation to the Senate floor for debate—which Republicans have rejected—by avoiding a Republican filibuster through a complicated workaround. When the House and Senate disagree on a bill (which is almost always), they send it back and forth with revisions until they reach a final version. According to Democracy Docket, after it has gone back and forth three times, a motion to proceed on it cannot be filibustered. So, Democrats in the House are going to take a bill that has already hit the three-trip mark and substitute for that bill the Freedom to Vote Act and the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act. They’ll pass the combined bill and send it to the Senate, where debate over it can’t be filibustered.

And so, Republican senators will have to explain to the people why they oppose what appear to be common-sense voting rules.

This is what we are discussing here, not practice.

KeithA said:
What I saw on 1/6 was a bunch of suffering beings, in the grip of an insane desire for white supremacy and fealty to a mentally unwell narcissist, creating some awful Karma for themselves. They are very much "we".

Malcolm wrote:
Might be you, it isn't me.

KeithA said:
One time I remarked to a Sangha member that I would welcome Trumpers to the Center any time. To my surprise, he recoiled pretty strongly against the idea.

Malcolm wrote:
I am not surprised at all. I frankly don't even see how one can square being a Republican and a Buddhist, but I know such creatures exist, even here.

Social justice is important. Making Trumpsters feel warm and cozy so they will practice zen, etc., not so much.

Christian Nationalism is identity politics suffering from roid rage.

KeithA said:
But, it is there, sitting together, where we can do the best work. I have chafed mightily as my larger Sangha has drifted into the realm of social justice and the various strains of identiy politics. It has driven away people who would otherwise be practicing. And practicing together is the most important thing, regardless of pragmatic concerns. IMHO, of course.

Malcolm wrote:
This is how Tibet lost their nation, by being passive and thinking that religious practices would fix everything. It didn't work then, it won't work now.

Chanting sutras, bowing to statues of the Buddha, and sitting in meditation never prevented an invasion or the overthrow of a government, as much as people like to fantasize to the contrary. It's like thinking one can heal illnesses with mantras alone, and forgo medical treatment with that idea in mind.

If we don't identify enemies to democracy, and respond to the threats they pose, we will lose our democracy. Our nation is in a precarious place. I hope you see this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2022 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


KeithA said:
"We" and "they", the source of all wars.

Malcolm wrote:
As a matter of pragmatics, there will always be "we" and "they" because that's just how sentient beings roll. Therefore, it is useful to understand who are "we" and who are "they." At this point in the history of the US,  Christians are "we," Buddhists are "they." You and I are fortunate to live in the Northeast were "we" is considerably more tolerant of "they" than in other places in the US, by your own admission. And I still think Christianity is a preposterous religion. I'm with Porphyry on that one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2022 at 9:00 AM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Therefore it interpenetrates and includes Dzogchenyāna...

Malcolm wrote:
No, because Shinjin is not based on direct perception.

Shinjin is not the direct perception of dharmatā.

Zhen Li said:
Shinjin itself is dharmatā, it is Buddha-nature, it interpenetrates all things and implies all vehicles, and yet the full realisation of this occurs upon birth.

Since Dzogchen affirms the ability for a human to perceive dharmatā…

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not the same, but I don’t need to press my point. Anyone who is interested can find a teacher who can explain this point in more detail. It’s not suitable for public discussion, beyond a simple mention.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2022 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is some truth in that. But the same goes for Zennists. Nichirenistas, Pure Landistas, Theravadins etc. You would not pick a tradition if you were not convinced it was the most effective path, not just for oneself, but in general.

Shinjin said:
Just a lighthearted joke my friend.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I understood, it made me smile.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2022 at 2:57 AM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is some truth in that. But the same goes for Zennists. Nichirenistas, Pure Landistas, Theravadins etc. You would not pick a tradition if you were not convinced it was the most effective path, not just for oneself, but in general.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2022 at 2:10 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
we are far from the topic.

Malcolm wrote:
That's Dharmawheel for you...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2022 at 2:07 AM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:
Nalanda said:
perception of dharmatā.
direct perception.
What are these?

Malcolm wrote:
That's what you will learn, eventually, if you are wise in choosing your teachers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2022 at 12:43 AM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Therefore it interpenetrates and includes Dzogchenyāna...

Malcolm wrote:
No, because Shinjin is not based on direct perception.

Shinjin is not the direct perception of dharmatā.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 13th, 2022 at 12:21 AM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:
Nalanda said:
Lama Lena good to start with Dzogchen for beginners?

Malcolm wrote:
You have to investigate your prospective gurus for yourself. She is among the people out there teaching Dzogchen in a somewhat open way. But not every teacher is suitable for every student. Only you can discern that. So you have to be like a bee, you have to visit many flowers, not only one. This is the recommended behavior for a person who is interested in Dzogchen teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 11:54 PM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
Lingpupa said:
What I am saying is that we should not confuse any particular visionary "history" with conventional facts.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, which is why I provided you with the earliest known date for the appearance of the physical witness (as text scholars like to say these days) of the sgra thal 'gyur.

The tantra itself however reveals these facts about itself. Whether someone is inclined to accept the myth and legend it presents or not is precisely the same kind of decision one faces with Mahāyāna sutras and the tantras.

Lingpupa said:
But it would, I think, be unwise to invest an awful lot of time or money in a search for physical evidence of the Sound Tatra being taught many centuries or millennia earlier than what scholars currently accept.

Malcolm wrote:
The same qualm applies to Kālacakra, the Lotus Sūtra, etc. However, in the case of the Sound Tantra, it is the definitive text of the system of Dzogchen, so regardless of whether one accepts its claims for itself, it occupies the most important position among all tantras of the great perfection, and thus cannot be ignored because it makes claims that text critical scholarship is likely to dismiss.  Text critical scholarship is limited by artifacts, physical objects, and inferences and deductions it can safely make on the basis of that evidence. So, it is limited.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
Queequeg said:
Does the ecstatic experience have an analog in Buddhism? I can't imagine a yogini collapsing like St. Teresa.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, not in the Christian/Neo-platonic sense.

Certainly, some visionary experiences among Buddhists might be described as ecstatic. For example, Chetsun Senge Wangchuk's visionary encounters with Vimalamitra in the late eleventh century do not seem very ecstatic, since they consisted of instructions, nor Shangton's visionary encounter with Senge Wangchuk 60 years later for the same reason, but Khyentse Wangpo's visionary recollection of attaining rainbow body as Senge Wangchuk when he visited the site of Senge Wangchuk retreat place does seem to bear some aspect of what we would term ecstatic. He reports his experience of outer ordinary appearances dissolving into luminosity, and then recalling the experience of attaining rainbow body as Senge Wangchuk and so on. So, we might find ecstatic tendencies in the treasure tradition. Spontaneous visions of Padmasambhava, of Tsongkhapa, Sapan, Longchenpa, protectors, yidams, and so on might also be classifiable as ecstatic experience.

But these experiences do not form part of the normal path of a Buddhist nor are they considered particularly valuable in and of themselves since they are just mental phenomena. Though a person may find personal confirmation of their path in such experiences, they would rarely be communicated to others. Usually we only find out about such experiences in their inner and secret biographies and autobiographies.

Certainly trance shamanism, which is has never been completely abandoned in Buddhist countries from Tibet to Japan is ecstatic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 10:52 PM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:


Nalanda said:
The question then becomes, how do I get started with Ati Yoga?

Is that Dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and no, within Dzogchen itself, there are three divisions, mind, space, and intimate instruction series, and within the last, there are four cycles: outer, inner, secret, and utterly secret unsurpassed. Only the last is considered to be definitive.

Generally speaking the difference between Dzogchen and the nine vehicles is that the practice of the former is grounded in a direct experience of gnosis, whereas the practice of the latter is grounded in mind. Another way to put it is that the nine yanas are vehicles of cause and result, whereas Dzogchen is the vehicle which is beyond cause and result.

There are some similarities between Dzogchen mind series, Kagyu Mahamudra and Dogen’s Zen, and Chan in general, but there are also important differences.

In the nine yana scheme all sutric Buddhism is included in the shravaka, pratyekabuddha, and bodhisattva vehicles, which are the three vehicles of the cause.

From another point of view, Dzogchen is also part of what is termed Ekayana in common Mahayana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 10:38 PM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
Dan74 said:
Does anyone realise that folks here are using exactly the same rhetoric to besmirch all Christians, as Conservatives used against the Muslims, following the terror attacks? That it is inherent to their belief system, that their establishment doesn't condemn it enough, that they are taking over, that given a chance, they will [insert your favourite fear]. It's like you guys work off the same script.

Malcolm wrote:
You need to watch the movie Jesus Camp. And recall, ethnic cleansing in Gods name is a major feature of the Old Testament.

And you didn’t read the thread carefully, since you missed the part where I point out religion in politics is toxic, no matter what religion it is. In the case of the US, the main danger to democracy is Christian Dominionism, look it up.

The establishment clause was not written to protect religions from state interference. It was written to ensure freedom from religion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 10:19 PM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
Sigh, no, I won't be making an apology to anyone. I bowed out to avoid exactly this nonsense.

Take care,
Keith

Malcolm wrote:
The nonsense initially came from you, when you began accusing others of not being able to think for themselves, because they disagreed with your point of view. Since you can’t along with Buddhists, how do you expect to able to get along with Christians?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 9:36 PM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
. I crossed the DW party line, which is basically whatever Malcolm says.

Malcolm wrote:
That is an insult to others.  I think an apology is in order here. In this thread you’ve repeatedly accused others of “group think” and so on, as if people besides myself, who disagree with your notion that Christian Nationalists are not deserving of the appellation of “Christian,” and that the religious views of the majority of the insurrectionists are of no account in their actions on 1/6/2021 are not capable of thinking for themselves without my help.

No one suggested you were not a Buddhist, it was suggested that one following a nonBuddhist theistic religion could not practice Buddhism at the same time. In other words, whatever the “zen” Christians might be practicing, it can’t be the Zen of Bodhidharma. I think it’s pointless to engage in ecumenical dialogues with Christians, Hindus, and so on, but then, I am not a pastoral counselor, a hospital chaplain, or someone whose work is likely to cause them to be in a position of having to give solace to nonBuddhists or even Buddhists who might be struggling with their chosen path, nor am I am an ecclesiastical representative of the Sangha. Such people may have good reason to engage in interfaith events, but I am under no such burden.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 1:06 PM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:
Nalanda said:
Dzogchen is spoken here as if it's a separate yana from Vajrayana. Is it.... Dzogchenyana?

Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen is it’s own vehicle, including, but not depending on the nine vehicles. You might say it is the basis of all vehicles.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 11:57 AM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
was taught in the language of birds

Losal Samten said:
Anything related to Kyeuchung Lotsawa's bird-teaching abilities with this?

Malcolm wrote:
No, I don’t think so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 11:46 AM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Clearly, Dogen never encountered any Tibetan Buddhists during his sojourn in China. I think the "no true Scotsman" fallacy might apply to this statement.

Astus said:
Surely he was aware of the various classifications of the teachings that are found in any Mahayana school, so his response was quite intentionally like that.

Malcolm wrote:
I was referring to arguing about superior/inferior, shallow/deep, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 11:38 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:



KeithA said:
Again with the lecture. I didn't realize I was conversing with sole arbiter of what the Dharma of Sakyamuni is.

PeterC said:
Don’t blame me, I didn’t make up the sutras.  But it really doesn’t matter who the arbiter is, if you’re an eternalist you’re not practising the Buddhadharma.  It’s bizarre that things like this even need to be said here.

Kim O'Hara said:
Peter, it's possible that 'things like this' don 't need to be said here and in fact are quite unhelpful in the context of the present discussion. Keith (and I, though I don't rate my opinion as highly as I rate his) have good company:

https://www.lionsroar.com/the-dalai-lama-and-desmond-tutu-the-best-of-spiritual-friends/
https://www.dalailama.com/pictures/final-days-of-conversation-on-joy-dharamsala-hp-india

etc...


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
Precisely the same Dalai Lama who said, “I tell my Christian Friends, ‘Emptiness is none of your business.’”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 11:34 AM
Title: Re: Britain’s Growing Far-Right Party Is a Serious Threat
Content:
Dan74 said:
I don't see evidence of it been a groundswell.

Malcolm wrote:
Then you haven't been paying attention...maybe the air is a little thin were you live?

Dan74 said:
Do you have evidence for a groundswell? Maybe in the US?

Malcolm wrote:
Again, you are not paying attention: Russia, China, and India are all countries dominated by ethnonationalists, not to mention Poland, Hungary, Israel, Turkey, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 6:07 AM
Title: Re: Britain’s Growing Far-Right Party Is a Serious Threat
Content:
Dan74 said:
I don't see evidence of it been a groundswell.

Malcolm wrote:
Then you haven't been paying attention...maybe the air is a little thin were you live?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 5:26 AM
Title: Re: Britain’s Growing Far-Right Party Is a Serious Threat
Content:
Ayu said:
It's creepy in many European countries.
In Germany the left antivaxers do not get that they are walking side by side with a nazi movement that seriously dreams of taking over the power.
Our new minister for health affairs received 250 threats of murder already. Some of them were not even sent anonymously, because those nazis literally believe it's their right and they are save with threatening politicians.

Malcolm wrote:
Its a world-wide thing, this growing ethnonationalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 5:03 AM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:
Nalanda said:
I would like to hear the perception of general Mahayana (historically and in the precent) to Vajrayana's view of itself as X...

Astus said:
The idea of 'general Mahayana' is an abstract one, just as the idea of 'general Hinayana', or even 'general Vajrayana'. Dogen had this to say on the matter:

'Remember, among Buddhists we do not argue about superiority and inferiority of philosophies, or choose between shallowness and profundity in the Dharma...

Malcolm wrote:
Clearly, Dogen never encountered any Tibetan Buddhists during his sojourn in China. I think the "no true Scotsman" fallacy might apply to this statement.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 4:53 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
The last sentence actually helps me to understand the lack of respect for Christianity. There is an incredibly rich and deep contemplative tradition within Christianity, especially in the Orthodox and Catholic traditions. The statement is patently false.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is isn't. I deliberately excluded Eastern orthodox traditions, and the exercises of Ignatius Loyola hardly qualify. And we may not mean the same thing by "contemplative"

In any case, there are also so-called "contemplative" traditions in Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Taoism, and Confucism, but is doesn't matter because they all suffer from wrong view, various species of eternalism (just as materialists such as humanists suffer from annihilationism) and their religions are spiritual dead ends, just as secular humanism, etc., are dead ends.

Queequeg said:
Eastern Orthodox contemplation is basically God-smrti?

Malcolm wrote:
Jesus anusmṛti, yes. But unlike Hinduism, which shares practices with Buddhism such as samādhi, dhyāna, dharāṇa, prāṇāyama, mantra and so on (and no, the Jesus prayer is NOT a mantra), these Abrahamic traditions share no such meditative traditions. Their contemplative traditions are mainly derived from Neoplatonism (which one can argue was itself influenced by Indian spiritual trends—Plotinus supposedly had a "gymnosophist" teacher); and Christian mysticism overall is generally ecstatic rather than "contemplative" in the sense that Buddhadharma understands samādhi and dhyāna.

This is a useful article outlining the dependence of Christian mysticism upon Neoplatonism:

Inge, W. R. “The Permanent Influence of Neoplatonism upon Christianity.” The American Journal of Theology 4, no. 2 (1900): 328–44. http://www.jstor.org/stable/3153114.

It shows very clearly that what we know as Christian Mysticism is directly founded upon Plotinus, via Augustine. We can see the ecstatic aspect in this passage Inge quotes from the Confessions of St. Augustine:

"What is this light which now and again breaks in upon me, and thrills through my heart without a wound? I tremble and I burn: I tremble, because I am unlike Him; I burn because I am like Him. It is Wisdom, Wisdom's own self, which thus shines upon me."

This fellow addresses all the great Christian mystics, including Eckhardt, Böhme, and Bruno, concluding with the Cambridge Platonists and their horror at Hobbe's revival of Epicureanism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
And I should add, the aforementioned Sound Tantra is the original Dharma teaching of this eon, from whence all other Dharmas spring. So there is that too.

amanitamusc said:
This really is  amazing that it still  exists and that it will for the first time be translated with commentaty by Vimalamitra in English.

Lingpupa said:
This perhaps doesn't need saying, but do bear in mind, white-flecked red one, that while Malc's statement here is a presumably perfectly correct formulation of the position of the system he espouses, scholars generally see the datable appearance of the seventeen tantra as later than, say, many of the Indian tantras promoted by the New Translation schools.
Me? I know nothing.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, the datable appearance of the Sound Tantra is around 1060 CE, after the passing of Atisha, and but well before the turn of the 12th century. But that is just a dating of a physical artifact. The original Sound Tantra, taught to beings of apparitional birth by the first nirmāṇakāya in the first minor eon of this major eon by Nangwa Dampa, was taught in the language of birds, not the language of Oḍḍiyāna, Sanskrit, or Tibetan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 2:43 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


KeithA said:
Here we fundamentally disagree, but I won't argue this our much longer. The last sentence actually helps me to understand the lack of respect for Christianity. There is an incredibly rich and deep contemplative tradition within Christianity, especially in the Orthodox and Catholic traditions. The statement is patently false.

narhwal90 said:
Very true.   Until covid closed it down I was attending an episcopalian meditation group that had been meeting weekly for in the churches chapel for about 20 years; 30 mins silent sitting, a reading by John Main, and a quick pass around the room for each person to say something brief about what they were grateful for that day.  They didn't use a bell but instead a CD with 30 mins of quiet followed by a brief Gregorian chant to signal the conclusion.  A number of the folks through that room had serious time on the cushion.  If grasping at doctrine and ritual is suspended while listening to the readings, there is a lot of common ground to be observed.

Malcolm wrote:
"Beauty in things exists merely in the mind which contemplates them."
-- David Hume


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 2:38 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
The last sentence actually helps me to understand the lack of respect for Christianity. There is an incredibly rich and deep contemplative tradition within Christianity, especially in the Orthodox and Catholic traditions. The statement is patently false.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is isn't. I deliberately excluded Eastern orthodox traditions, and the exercises of Ignatius Loyola hardly qualify. And we may not mean the same thing by "contemplative"

In any case, there are also so-called "contemplative" traditions in Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Taoism, and Confucism, but is doesn't matter because they all suffer from wrong view, various species of eternalism (just as materialists such as humanists suffer from annihilationism) and their religions are spiritual dead ends, just as secular humanism, etc., are dead ends.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 2:04 AM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:
Shinjin said:
Not sure. I just want to take the easiest path available.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, well, hands down, Dzogchen is the easiest path, but it might be the hardest to understand.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
Queequeg said:
Then maybe we can have some ecumenical discussions.

Malcolm wrote:
Still don't see much point in it, unless it prevents the torches and pitchforks approach to interfaith dialogue, with us being on the receiving end. For example, if a Christian is interested in Dzogchen teachings, it's fine with me. Dzogchen teachings are for everyone. But if then they turn around and start promulgating a "Christian" Dzogchen (tm) the way some like to pretend there is a Christian Zen, then I am against it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 12:48 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
Queequeg said:
Chicken/egg. Not going to get reform without political machinery. Political machinery is mostly brute force - voter turn out. Voter turnout is local organization, local issues, local effort. Ie. what Abrams has been building in GA.

Malcolm wrote:
Only made possible by the fact that Democrats are moving to Atlanta and surrounding suburbs, attracted by a strong job market. I mean, who is going to move to North and South Dakota? Kansas? Oklahoma? Nebraska? Alabama? Arkansas?

We need national electoral reform at the federal level. Otherwise, the Voter Suppression party will keep winning the electoral college vote.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 12th, 2022 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


Queequeg said:
Local politics is where the voting maps are drawn that can throw a few seats in the house one way or another, as well as state and local offices that in determine those local maps. It would be heartening to see the rest of the Democratic party start working like Georgia.

Malcolm wrote:
Difficult without national or judicial reform...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 11:51 PM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


KeithA said:
Putting entire groups into "bad" box is pretty awful behavior. The Christian worldview is not monolithic, as quite obviously, the Buddhist worldview isn't either.

Malcolm wrote:
I personally think all religion, including Buddhism, goes in bad box, when it is mixed with politics. But I don't see a burgeoning movement of Buddhist nationalists in the US, nor do I see Muslim nationalists, and so on. What I do see is a burgeoning Christian Identity Movement, aka Christian Nationalists, whose membership cuts across denominational lines in ways that were not possible prior the 1960's. One of the dominant themes of this movement is White European ethnocentricity, along with beliefs in the cultural superiority of European civilization, xenophobia, and yes, of course, racism. No one here is saying that all Christians in America subscribe to these beliefs, but there are sufficient number of them who do subscribe to these beliefs to represent an actual threat to American Democracy.

As for Christianity itself, while I personally find it to be a preposterous set of beliefs, I am also aware that Christians find Buddhism to be preposterous as well, so I am content to leave Christians alone as long as they leave us alone. I don't see much point in the ecumenical thing, since Christianity has nothing of value to offer Buddhism, while Christians have shown that they are mainly interested in appropriating and distorting our contemplative traditions, since Protestants and Catholics lack such a tradition of their own.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 11:20 PM
Title: Re: How does general Mahayana see Vajrayana claims of being X?
Content:
Nalanda said:
I hope this is okay. Don't want to step on anyone's shoes.

I ask this because there's an absolute silence I hear from General Mahayana on how they view Vajrayana.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, of course. Those who belong to what Vajrayāna terms "common Mahāyāna" fail to see the utility of the special methods for attaining buddhahood in a single life, using for example Zhen Li's reference to Shinran:

Real teachings of the difficult practices, the Path of Sages. These are the teachings of the Busshin (Zen), Shingon, Hokke (Tendai), Kegon and other schools.

However, Tripiṭakamāla's Nayatrayapradīpa states:
Although the goal is the same, since it is unconfused,
with many methods, not difficult,
and mastered by those of sharp faculties,
Mantrayāna is superior.
Here, sharp faculties is not a reference to intelligence, it is a reference to what is referred faith, dad pa/śraddha, the first of the five powers (indriyas). Shinran was exposed to Vajrayāna, and since in Japan it was an elite practice, complicated, hard to study, etc., his attitude toward Japanese Mantrayāna is understandable. But his attitude is situated in his culture and does not apply to streams of Vajrayāna outside of his experience.

There is however a certain egalitarianism in Kamakura developments. All of them, including Soto Zen, were inclusive of anyone who wanted to participate. Dogen encouraged lay participation (and did not buy into the whole Mappo thing at all); Honen and Shinran crafted a Buddhism for the masses which relieved many people of samsaric anxiety aboiut their future lives; Nichiren, very much influenced by Vajrayāna ideas, created a whole school around devotion to the Lotus Sūtra, asserting that people could exclusively attain awakening in this very lifetime by chanting the title of the Lotus Sutra and so on.

Nalanda said:
I would like to hear the perception of general Mahayana (historically and in the precent) to Vajrayana's view of itself as X...

X could be...

-Faster than regular Mahayana?
-More profound / advanced?
-Enlightenment in one lifetime?

Malcolm wrote:
You can read Paramitayāna responses to Vajrayāna claims in such texts Sonam Tsemo's General Presentation of the Divisions of Tantra, and so on.

Also, you must understand that outside of India, the diffusion of Buddhism is extremely complex, and the notion of a "common Mahāyāna" is primarily an Indian idea taken up by Tibetans. Chan, for example, certainly never would accept this characterization.

Sino-Japanese Buddhism evolved outside the Indian Buddhist University system, and owes very little to developments in India after the 6th century, beyond the very restricted influences of Mantrayāna that was introduced to China in the late 7th century.

Nalanda said:
Do General Mahayana....

(1)-just roll their eyes and ignore this?
(2)-say "yeah maybe they are right, who knows?"
(3)-accept, recognize, verify what Vajrayana says?
(4)-"no way, that's just sectarian cheerleading"


Malcolm wrote:
(1) Usually. (2) Never. (3) Never. (4) Usually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 1:17 PM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
Queequeg said:
I don't think this putative Christian Right take over will succeed - the country is just too big and too pluralistic and becoming more so everyday.

They're not interested in having a dialogue as far as I can tell. So how do you propose we should dispose ourselves toward this aggression?

Malcolm wrote:
They have already taken over a large portions of the country, our top military leaders are openly discussing fears of a military-backed coup, and so on, and the Christian Right’s seditious rhetoric has become mainstream.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 1:08 PM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


Kim O'Hara said:
But I also agree that fundamentalist right-wing Christianity is a bad thing in general and has been particularly toxic in the USA recently.

Malcolm wrote:
Not just recently, but for our entire history.

“Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
—Santayana


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 12:16 PM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


KeithA said:
And yet, hatred isn't the answer. It never is.

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t hate white Christians, I just know, based on their record, when push come to shove, they are happy to persecute minorities. They are quite expert at it. Christian intolerance is the reason we we have an establishment clause in the First Amendment, since large percentage of the founders were atheists, or at least acutely aware of the long history religious persecution in Europe by state religions. It’s written about quite a bit by Madison in the Federalist Papers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 12:11 PM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:



KeithA said:
Agree. In my opinion, Christianity is the group name. The "religion" is white supremacy. These fascists aren't any more Christian than I am a Satan worshiper.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s disingenuous, it’s like claiming Ashoka wasn’t a Buddhist when he executed 18k Jains—-of course he was a Buddhist. Likewise Christian Nationalists are certainly Christians. We may not admire their version of Christianity, but they are indeed Christians.

KeithA said:
Disingenuous implies an intent to be untruthful. As I have admitted to all along, everything I have typed so far is my opinion. I am not a social scientist, nor do I play one on TV.

For some background, Dae Soen Sa NIm (Zen Master Seung Sahn), used to sit joint retreats with the Christian monks at Gethsemane in Kentucky. He even came up with some Christian kong ans (koans) for his collection in Whole World is a Single Flower. They are based on poems of a German Christian mystic. We still hold regular Christian/Buddhist retreats. There is another way.

_/|\_

Malcolm wrote:
It means here that you are denying these people their own self-identification. That’s not an honest assessment of them. it’s not correct to claim that Christian Nationalists are not Christians. It’s similar to Protestants claiming Catholics are not really Christians, or Theravadins claiming Tibetan Buddhists are not real Buddhists. We have to deal with the fact they consider themselves Christian and theologically justify their beliefs, just as do intolerant  Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and so on.

We share nothing in common with Christians, apart from valuing compassion. There is no valid refuge In Christianity, so apart from having a positive influence on more open-minded Christians, I don’t really see the point in such ecumenical exercises. But it’s a free country, for the time being—just make sure you keep one eye open.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 8:50 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
To me the framing here is off.

IMO there is virtually no chance of some theocratic takeover of federal machinery or some such.

What there is a possibility of is a heavier version of what we have now with right leaning states getting rid of legal abortion, teaching their nonsense in schools, funneling more public money into their religion, etc.

KeithA said:
Agree. In my opinion, Christianity is the group name. The "religion" is white supremacy. These fascists aren't any more Christian than I am a Satan worshiper.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s disingenuous, it’s like claiming Ashoka wasn’t a Buddhist when he executed 18k Jains—-of course he was a Buddhist. Likewise Christian Nationalists are certainly Christians. We may not admire their version of Christianity, but they are indeed Christians.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 5:02 AM
Title: Re: What is the motivation for Tibetan Buddhists to join the monastics?
Content:
Shinjin said:
It would be sweet to be a monastic. Sounds like a simple and blissful way to live.

Malcolm wrote:
People have a lot of fantasies about what it is like to be bhikṣu.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 4:49 AM
Title: Re: Is there an atman in your school? (Shentong)
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
Cite a source please?

Malcolm wrote:
A conversation I had with Khenpo in 1992 at the Newton Dharmadhātu, when he was teaching a program there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 1:36 AM
Title: Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
but there are also a lot of issues with taking imaging or presumed balance of neurotransmitters or whatever and saying “this physiological sign is x disorder”.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, and this results in a lot of people being treated for symptoms, rather than causes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022 at 12:02 AM
Title: Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
The DSM doesn’t use brain science as diagnostic criteria

Malcolm wrote:
Correct. And as such, it's diagnostic criteria are pretty subjective, not really evidence-based.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19181456/

Johnny Dangerous said:
Evidence based medicine claims to be the paradigm for modern psychiatry. It represents proven treatments for defined diagnoses. But there are major problems with this position, starting with the fact that while they are superior to placebo, evidence based treatments too often are ineffective. It cannot be assumed that classifying psychopathology diagnostically is the best way to move forward. Established diagnostic entities, are as much wish as reality. They are the result of committee decisions so tentative that DSM III and IV refuse to use the term "diagnoses" in the diagnostic manual.

Malcolm wrote:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27071528/

Johnny Dangerous said:
In the 1990s, the rise of evidence-based medicine cast doubt on the reliability of expert consensus. Since then, medicine has increasingly relied on systematic reviews, as developed by the evidence-based medicine movement, and advocated for their early incorporation in expert consensus efforts. With the partial exception of DSM-IV, such systematic evidence-based reviews have not been consistently integrated into the development of the DSMs, leaving their development out of step with the larger medical field.
Depakote is also a pretty serious drug with considerable side effects. Not to say it isn’t important in some circumstances, but plenty of people have successfully controlled their OCD without it.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, if your OCD is limited to not being able to carry magazines out of the bathroom once you have brought them in, or get in a new car with dirty underwear (true story), well, probably Depakote is probably overkill.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 11:49 PM
Title: Re: Is there an atman in your school? (Shentong)
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
"Regarding the sutras that teach emptiness, as many as were taught by the Victor, By al of them afflictions are reversed. But Buddha Nature is never refuted in them... Within the afflictions, primordial wisdom abides as immaculate Suchness." - In Praise of the Dharmadhatu
It’s not universally accepted that this book was written by the same Nagarjuna. If it was, then I personally am shocked.

Nicholas2727 said:
I was unaware of this. I looked at other threads and it seem that there is no mention of this text by other Indian authors and other historical evidence that it was written much later. Interesting!

Malcolm wrote:
There are three hundred texts attributed to Nāgārjuna in the tengyur. Very few could actually have been composed by Nāgārjuna I.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 11:38 PM
Title: Re: What is the motivation for Tibetan Buddhists to join the monastics?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Renunciation as a path is termed "spangs (utkṣiptā) lam," literally "the path of discarding or giving up." Where as the idea of renunciation of samsara is niḥsaraṇa (nges par 'byung). So yes, all Buddhists paths are predicated on niḥsaraṇa, but not all Buddhists path are predicated on the idea of utkṣiptā.



Seeker12 said:
It seems perhaps even that the higher paths require even more authentic niḥsaraṇa, even as the aspect of utkṣiptā reduces, as the aspect of utkṣiptā is essentially only a scaffolding-type support for the development of true maturation in the dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
Eventually, even niḥsaraṇa must be liberated.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?
Content:


Toenail said:
Is this a joke? I am a therapist and studied this. I never heard this. Also your case study with one brain damaged individual is no evidence.

chokyi lodro said:
I too was sceptical regarding the labelling of OCD as a seizure disorder.

Malcolm wrote:
Just look at the mounting evidence. Then draw your conclusion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: What is the motivation for Tibetan Buddhists to join the monastics?
Content:
Nalanda said:
So we're back to it being not a path of renunciation, which is what I've always thought.

Brunelleschi said:
No, I do not agree with this view.

What you have to remember is that Sutrayana and Vajrayana both share the same outlook on Samsara (the three sufferings). E.g., when in Vajrayana you do deity practice it is important to remember than both you and the deity share the same ground - dharmakaya. You and the deity are the same, but you are temporarily obscured by adventitious stains/temporary defilments. The deity meanwhile, is not.

In Sutrayana, generally the way is to avoid sense pleasures. In Vajrayana they are transformed. However, like I mention above the view on Samsara is the same.

Malcolm wrote:
Nevertheless, the PATHS are different. There are in general three types of paths: renunciation (Hinayāna, Common Mahāyāna), transformation (lower tantras, mahāyoga and anuyoga), and self-liberation (Ati, Mahāmudra).

The confusion arises because the word renunciation in English translates different terms in Tibetan. Renunciation as a path is termed "spangs (utkṣiptā) lam," literally "the path of discarding or giving up." Where as the idea of renunciation of samsara is niḥsaraṇa (nges par 'byung). So yes, all Buddhists paths are predicated on niḥsaraṇa, but not all Buddhists path are predicated on the idea of utkṣiptā.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?
Content:
Toenail said:
Is this a joke? I am a therapist and studied this. I never heard this. Also your case study with one brain damaged individual is no evidence.

Malcolm wrote:
Nope, no joke. For example, in the US, OCD is often treated with an anti-seizure drug called Depakote.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181953/

I am not claiming that every case of OCD is a seizure related disorder without evidence, and there are a wide variety of behaviors associated with OCD, but it is certainly the case that seizure disorders correlate with OCD, and I suspect, in the end we will discover that most OCD is brain based.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 10:25 PM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Nalanda said:
https://madhyamaka.com OK? It's by Alex Li Trisoglio, an instructor appointed by Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche to teach.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not a very on point, based on my superficial perusal of the transcripts. you would better off doing courses with IBA or Rangjung Yeshe, which are more traditional,

http://www.ibastudiesonline.com/Home/Course/7d65b48e-08c8-4b84-8dee-076ae70ec031

I know Khenpo Jorden, he speaks excellent English and is quite learned in Madhyamaka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 12:41 PM
Title: Re: Is there an atman in your school? (Shentong)
Content:



Nicholas2727 said:
No Buddhist school sees Buddhanature/Dharmakaya as atman or brahman.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Apparently the Karma Kagyu lama Khenpo Tsultrim thinks Shentong and Advaita Vedanta are similar in their view.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, structurally speaking, in so far as both propose that the ultimate and relative are mutually exxclusive. But he did not agree that the content or the result was the same.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 12:30 PM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
So, conventional logic and reasoning is always going to be insufficient for Tathāgatagarbha thinking, which is far more suited to a more poetic or evocative language.

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t really have much patience for appeals to poetics, and find that a lot of sloppy thinking gets excused in the name of “poetry.”

It’s true that there is a great deal of metaphor employed in various classes of Buddhist literature, but it must be treated with care, it’s employment is generally not so obvious. For example, the nine classic examples of tathagatagarbha, understood incorrectly lead one directly to holding a nonBuddhist view of self. On the other hand there is a correct way to understand these examples, which actually lead one to a definitive understanding the absence of identity taught by the Buddha. However, most people take theses examples literally and so wind up holding wrong views.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 12:10 PM
Title: Re: Is there an atman in your school? (Shentong)
Content:
Nalanda said:
Just curious if you see dharmakaya and/or buddhanature as atman/brahman.

Nicholas2727 said:
No Buddhist school sees Buddhanature/Dharmakaya as atman or brahman. Even Dolpopa/Jonang do not view Buddhanature in this way. One of my teachers refers to true being as in the verb, not as a being.

Malcolm wrote:
It falls apart in the face of Nagarjuna’s kind of analysis:

“Apart from whatever has been or has not been, there no [present] being.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 12:06 PM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:




Nalanda said:
Emptiness is also empty. How do critics respond to this historically and what is our rebuttal?

From my own mind, 0 x 0 is 0 or 0 + 0 is 0. So saying emptiness is also empty is saying nothing as it is only affirming the first/main point. We might as well say "really empty" or absolute empty which means we are just reaffirming what our critics say. (that after death, there's just really nothing. aka annihilation, cessation, end of all experience.) The pastor above would just say " That's what I said. You are saying after death, there's just nothing nothing absolute nothing. " Even if we say he's wrong, his answer is the natural response upon hearing what we believe.

Unless by saying emptiness is also empty we are saying it is NOT empty, which is a suggestion that there is something, in which case, we're back in the sphere of argumentations.

And finally if we insist on; it is not something/anything, AND it is also not empty/nothing, but that empty is also empty, then aren't we just subjecting ourselves to absurdity and contradiction which delegitimizes our place in any serious intellectual/philosophical conversation?

My head hurts.

Not disagreeing. I'm learning. Hope you can help.

Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness is empty because it is also a dependent designation, in other words, emptiness also lacks inherent existence. There are sixteen kinds of emptiness. It’s best if you study some Madhyamaka under a qualified instructor before asking more questions.

Nicholas2727 said:
Do you have suggestions on an introductory book or videos for Madhyamaka? Or is it best to ask a teacher to study it with them directly? Slightly difficult since the few Tibetan Teachers I have studied with follow Shentong philosophy, but there is a Gelug center about an hour and a half away that I would assume could teach the subject well.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, if you only have exposure to gzhan stong, it would very good for you to study Geluk Madhyamaka.

But in reality, if you carefully read Aryadeva, Buddhapalita, and  Candrakirti, you should be all set.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 12:02 PM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
The Nirvāṇa Sūtra and Śūraṅgama Sūtra indeed suggest that Buddha-nature is a Self.

The affirmation of Self is just part of a fourfold affirmation about Buddha-nature: it is Permanent, Bliss, Self, and Purity. This is because the Buddha is not a saṃsāric phenomenon, and thus the marks of existence, impermanence, suffering, and no-self, do not apply to it.

Malcolm wrote:
Nirvana also lacks self. All dharmas lack identity. Nirvana is a dharma.

Zhen Li said:
Yes it does, but it is also unconditioned. The reason why Nirvāṇa is described as being Permanence, Bliss, Self, and Purity is different from the kind of reasoning you are employing here. The Self, in those affirmations, is not self—not-self.

Malcolm wrote:
Since the compounded is not established, it follows the uncompounded is not established. The terminology of permanence, bliss, self, and purity is intentional, not definitive, not to be taken literally or at face value.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 11:48 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Nalanda said:
^^ Not to be obtuse or totally beginner on you but please forgive me when I say what a normal secularist would say...

How is that "empty" not anything but what secularists are saying. That what happens after all this (existence) is a big nothing. Empty. As in totally devoid of essense, everything ceasing their essentiality to ....emptiness.

Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness means things do not exist inherently. Apart from things to be empty, there are is mo emptiness either. Emptiness is also empty.


Nalanda said:
Emptiness is also empty. How do critics respond to this historically and what is our rebuttal?

From my own mind, 0 x 0 is 0 or 0 + 0 is 0. So saying emptiness is also empty is saying nothing as it is only affirming the first/main point. We might as well say "really empty" or absolute empty which means we are just reaffirming what our critics say. (that after death, there's just really nothing. aka annihilation, cessation, end of all experience.) The pastor above would just say " That's what I said. You are saying after death, there's just nothing nothing absolute nothing. " Even if we say he's wrong, his answer is the natural response upon hearing what we believe.

Unless by saying emptiness is also empty we are saying it is NOT empty, which is a suggestion that there is something, in which case, we're back in the sphere of argumentations.

And finally if we insist on; it is not something/anything, AND it is also not empty/nothing, but that empty is also empty, then aren't we just subjecting ourselves to absurdity and contradiction which delegitimizes our place in any serious intellectual/philosophical conversation?

My head hurts.

Not disagreeing. I'm learning. Hope you can help.

Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness is empty because it is also a dependent designation, in other words, emptiness also lacks inherent existence. There are sixteen kinds of emptiness. It’s best if you study some Madhyamaka under a qualified instructor before asking more questions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 11:28 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
The Nirvāṇa Sūtra and Śūraṅgama Sūtra indeed suggest that Buddha-nature is a Self.

The affirmation of Self is just part of a fourfold affirmation about Buddha-nature: it is Permanent, Bliss, Self, and Purity. This is because the Buddha is not a saṃsāric phenomenon, and thus the marks of existence, impermanence, suffering, and no-self, do not apply to it.

Malcolm wrote:
Nirvana also lacks self. All dharmas lack identity. Nirvana is a dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 11:22 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Nalanda said:
I mean nevermind that this Baptist pastor is a known anti-semite, anti-LGBTQ, and a fundamentalist character, but his analysis of what Buddhists are saying is exactly what you would expect from someone like him and secularists when they hear (or what we would say 'misunderstand') the Buddhist position:


Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness is a “secret” teaching. It’s not for outsiders. It’s not to be discussed with nonbuddhists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 10:37 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Nalanda said:
^^ Not to be obtuse or totally beginner on you but please forgive me when I say what a normal secularist would say...

How is that "empty" not anything but what secularists are saying. That what happens after all this (existence) is a big nothing. Empty. As in totally devoid of essense, everything ceasing their essentiality to ....emptiness.

Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness means things do not exist inherently. Apart from things to be empty, there are is no emptiness either. Emptiness is also empty.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 9:55 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Nalanda said:
Now that we're done talking to Dolpopa....

How is the dharmakaya and buddhanature not actually atman? I mean I get that it lacks self-hood in a sense, but we ARE positing an unchanging, fixed, eternal, essense of sort and merely branding it as "emptiness" is it not?

Malcolm wrote:
Emptiness does not exist apart from things to be empty, so, no, we are not positing some fixed essence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 9:21 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:



KeithA said:
Also agree...where we seem to differ is that I am of the opinion that 1/6 had little do with religion, and that the root cause was racism. I might broaden that to fascism. Religion is just the thing some fascists are hiding behind. Of course, I could be completely wrong. We are just shooting the proverbial doo-doo here. I am no political or social scientist.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and I am arguing that racism is baked into Christian Nationalism, so much so you cannot separate them. You have three ingredients, the flour is Christianity, the salt is racism, the yeast is Trump.

KeithA said:
.

There is our disagreement. I think the recipe is faulty. Christian Nationalists prone to violence make up a small fraction of the Christian Population.

Malcolm wrote:
Christian Nationalism is itself the problem. The violence is simply an expected consequence of their belief system.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 8:54 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:



KeithA said:
Christian Nationalist are dangerous - yup

Religious group think can result in atrocities - yup


Malcolm wrote:
On the other hand, it’s demonstrable that Buddhist tolerance towards other religions has lead to Buddhism being undermined by the intolerance of others. The old paradox of tolerance. Firm believer in separation of religions and politics, all religion, including Buddhism.

KeithA said:
Also agree...where we seem to differ is that I am of the opinion that 1/6 had little do with religion, and that the root cause was racism. I might broaden that to fascism. Religion is just the thing some fascists are hiding behind. Of course, I could be completely wrong. We are just shooting the proverbial doo-doo here. I am no political or social scientist.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and I am arguing that racism is baked into Christian Nationalism, so much so you cannot separate them. You have three ingredients, the flour is Christianity, the salt is racism, the yeast is Trump.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 8:51 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Why I have more of a affinity with Ron Paul-style libertarian conservatives than trump’s ilk.

Ron Paul, even though a christian himself, is more about the values of ‘the founding fathers’ (whatever limitations these may have had aside for the moment); e.g. freedom of religion and so forth.

Malcolm wrote:
Demonstrably, the founders advocated freedom FROM religion, not freedom of religion. Freedom of religion is just a necessary consequence of the establishment clause of the first amendment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 8:47 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


KeithA said:
Because, quite simply, it isn't all Christians. Again, a completely closed mind, no room for growth. Just an ossified point of view, no different than the most hardened Christian fundamentalist.

Malcolm wrote:
No growth necessary. We’ve all grown up surrounded by Christians and Christianity, it’s not a mystery. They can believe whatever they want. But Christian Nationalists are dangerous, and history shows that religious groups tend to stick together even when they are engaged in atrocities, for example Buddhists in Myanmar.

KeithA said:
Christian Nationalist are dangerous - yup

Religious group think can result in atrocities - yup


Malcolm wrote:
On the other hand, it’s demonstrable that Buddhist tolerance towards other religions has lead to Buddhism being undermined by the intolerance of others. The old paradox of tolerance. Firm believer in separation of religions and politics, all religion, including Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 8:44 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


KeithA said:
Because, quite simply, it isn't all Christians. Again, a completely closed mind, no room for growth. Just an ossified point of view, no different than the most hardened Christian fundamentalist.

Malcolm wrote:
No growth necessary. We’ve all grown up surrounded by Christians and Christianity, it’s not a mystery. They can believe whatever they want. But Christian Nationalists are dangerous, and history shows that religious groups tend to stick together even when they are engaged in atrocities, for example Buddhists in Myanmar.

KeithA said:
Christian Nationalist are dangerous - yup

Religious group think can result in atrocities - yup


Malcolm wrote:
On the other hand, it’s demonstrable that Buddhist tolerance towards other religions has lead to Buddhism being undermined by the intolerance of others. The old paradox of tolerance. Firm believer in separation of religions and politics, all religion, including Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 8:37 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:


Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Well, if you put it that way, then I guess I’m guilty as charged!

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, of course you are. You are an advocate of Yogacāra substantialism.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Lol, I love how you say that like it’s a bad thing.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not a bad thing, it’s just where you are at. It’s a stage. It’s just not definitive by any measure.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 8:33 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


KeithA said:
Because, quite simply, it isn't all Christians. Again, a completely closed mind, no room for growth. Just an ossified point of view, no different than the most hardened Christian fundamentalist.

Malcolm wrote:
No growth necessary. We’ve all grown up surrounded by Christians and Christianity, it’s not a mystery. They can believe whatever they want. But Christian Nationalists are dangerous, and history shows that religious groups tend to stick together even when they are engaged in atrocities, for example Buddhists in Myanmar.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 8:27 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:


Sādhaka said:
however Jan. 6 was an false-flag IMO.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s the stupid thing you’ve ever said. Some people are so f**cking dumb they will even deny the evidence of their senses.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 8:18 AM
Title: Re: no conditioned entity can arise from anything other than another conditioned entity?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
if buddhas exist in a state of unconditioned Nirvana

Malcolm wrote:
They don't exist in some woo woo state of unconditioned nirvana. Buddhas arise from causes and conditions. Nirvana is simply the cessation of afflictions. Buddhahood is the realization of emptiness, the unconditioned nature of conditioned phenomena.

Artziebetter1 said:
then how can they act like incarnating,teaching the path,bodhicitta action etc ?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhahood has causes and conditions, which is why buddhas can act.

Artziebetter1 said:
So buddhas have complex awareness and intelligence/perception?because by definition a unconditioned mindstate or mind would be utterly simple intelligence or awareness.

Malcolm wrote:
An unconditioned mind is impossible. Minds exist in time, even a Buddha’s continuum is conditioned, albeit, unafflicted.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 5:51 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Oh I fully accept self-emptiness as the nature of observable universe. No problem there. I just don’t think it’s the final word on Truth.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because emptiness terrifies you, so you cling to some idea that there must be something which is not empty, that you label "true."

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Well, if you put it that way, then I guess I’m guilty as charged!

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, of course you are. You are an advocate of Yogacāra substantialism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 5:40 AM
Title: Re: no conditioned entity can arise from anything other than another conditioned entity?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
if buddhas exist in a state of unconditioned Nirvana

Malcolm wrote:
They don't exist in some woo woo state of unconditioned nirvana. Buddhas arise from causes and conditions. Nirvana is simply the cessation of afflictions. Buddhahood is the realization of emptiness, the unconditioned nature of conditioned phenomena.

Artziebetter1 said:
then how can they act like incarnating,teaching the path,bodhicitta action etc ?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhahood has causes and conditions, which is why buddhas can act.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 5:37 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:


Nalanda said:
Wow. This can easily be weaponized by Hindus against newbies like me. Which seems to be what's happening here.

Malcolm wrote:
SY is our resident buddhanature troll. He hangs out under the buddhanature bridge, waiting to suck the marrow out of bones of any unlucky traveller who happens to invoke him with the word, "buddhanature."

Sometimes, he is also our resident buddhanature zombie, who staggers around looking for brains to eat...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 5:33 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Oh I fully accept self-emptiness as the nature of observable universe. No problem there. I just don’t think it’s the final word on Truth.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because emptiness terrifies you, so you cling to some idea that there must be something which is not empty, that you label "true."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 5:25 AM
Title: Re: no conditioned entity can arise from anything other than another conditioned entity?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
why can something unconditioned perform no actions?

Malcolm wrote:
Because actions have parts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No, this is just Hinduism in Buddhist drag.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
Yes, this is the standard objection.

Malcolm wrote:
This is the standard objection to the misconception that buddhanature is some transpersonal woo woo.

SY, the tathātatagarbha sūtras themselves error check against this misconception. You might ty reading them sometime.

As the Uttaratantra and the Lankāvatara point out, tathātatagarbha was taught so that people would not become discouraged by the length of the path, or for those who are frightened of emptiness, like our pal here, SY.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 5:13 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Nalanda said:
Is it Buddhist to say "5 aggregates is self".
From Sujato's recent post (Jan 7, 2021)
For the EBTs, on the other hand, it is precisely the five aggregates that are taken as self. Indeed, it seems as if they were originally developed as a scheme for classifying self theories. If you had tried to argue, “What you take as self is nothing more than the aggregates” you would be met with, “Yes, exactly, that is my self.”

Malcolm wrote:
They are the basis for imputing a self.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 4:49 AM
Title: Re: Is there a 'true self'?
Content:
Nalanda said:
But rather the buddha-nature is universal self（大我） or true self（真我), and it is something which is shared by every sentient being. The true-self is interconnectedness between all sentient beings.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this is just Hinduism in Buddhist drag.

The statement before it does not even make sense:
The tathagatagarbha sutras state that buddha-nature (the tatathagatagarbha) is atman (self), but not as in the conventional sense of self as in individual and unique which is tied to the 5 aggregates which are actually illusory and emptiness.
There is no person to be found apart from the five aggregates, so a putative buddhanature that is not part of the five aggregates can't connect sentient beings at all.

Buddhanature is just a name for the potential of a given sentient being to realize buddhahood.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 3:54 AM
Title: Re: no conditioned entity can arise from anything other than another conditioned entity?
Content:


Artziebetter1 said:
in the atemporalist picture, all of God’s successive creation and acts in history are seen as aspects of one integrated atemporal act of will.since God in classical abrahamic theism(Maimonides,aquinas,ibn sina etc) is self-diffusive, it's outpouring will tend toward the greatest quantity of being possible. God's being is qualitatively infinite, therefore His creativity is infinitely inexhaustible.

Malcolm wrote:
Casuistry as argument is common among theists.

Something unconditioned cannot perform actions at all. At the end of the day, you will be required to admit you cannot prove the absurd thesis above, and will have to resort to argument from faith in the end.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 2:47 AM
Title: Nepal's biggest stupa turns to biodegradable prayer flags
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211218-nepal-s-biggest-stupa-turns-to-biodegradable-prayer-flags?mc_cid=e1820c16ee&mc_eid=d8758c9896


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 2:31 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
On Christian racism and historical slavery , the abolitionists were also Christian and some saw the abolition of slavery as connected to their beliefs.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, mainly in New England, as the Puritans objected to slavery, and this was baked into New England culture, despite the presence of slaves in the Massachusetts Bay Colony beginning in the early 18th century.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 2:20 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
"Christians are not our friends"

Then sadly, we are no better.

_/|\_

Malcolm wrote:
I don't bear animosity towards Christians. I just don't trust them en masse. The history of Christianity is far too bloody for me to imagine that if Christian Nationalists gained power in this country, as in seizing the gvt., that many of them would do much in the face of oppression, just as few Christians openly opposed the Nazis and the Fascists. Some did of course, but not enough.

We are Buddhists, we do not accept one thing they believe. They don't like that. You may not remember this but several Buddhist temples were burnt down in Western MA. and Southern Vt. in the late 70's. Personally, I am more comfortable with atheists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 2:06 AM
Title: Re: What is the motivation for Tibetan Buddhists to join the monastics?
Content:


zerwe said:
Yes, but it would seem that too often we have people who forget fundamentally what is being renounced and where or how this is taking place.

Malcolm wrote:
Hence the word "practice." Renunciation cannot be contrived. It is a realization, not a rule.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 1:40 AM
Title: Re: What is the motivation for Tibetan Buddhists to join the monastics?
Content:
Damchö_Dorje said:
Is there anything we renounce in Vajrayana? Like anger? If a person is predisposed to negativities instead of what's positive, does that get transformed as well?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 12:59 AM
Title: Re: What is the motivation for Tibetan Buddhists to join the monastics?
Content:


zerwe said:
Lay or ordained, CEO or panhandler, renunciation takes place in the mind. The very same renunciation described at the level of sutra is considered vital to practice in the Vajrayana.

Without it, practice becomes another form of attachment for that of this life and future lives.

Malcolm wrote:
What is being renounced here is samsara. But in Vajrayāna, one does not renounce pleasures of the senses because it is a path of transformation, not a path of renunciation. This is why we have yogas of eating, washing, passion, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
I have had ocd since I was about 9 or 10 years old and it really makes my life hard and not fun.

Malcolm wrote:
Generally OCD is considered a seizure disorder.

Charlie123 said:
Hi Acarya,

OCD as a seizure disorder sounds a little strange. Can you elaborate?

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.anncaserep.com/full-text/accr-v3-id1541.php


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
My opinion still remains that racism, and not religion, is root cause of 1/6. Racism is what brought the last administration to power, and what keeps it's figurehead in place.

Malcolm wrote:
They are completely intertwined in White Christianity in America as above. And I am quite certain that European Christians are more racist than nonbelievers there as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
My response to the reasons for 1/6 was that it was primarily racially motivated, not religiously motivated. People of all religions use their faith to bolster their ignorance, hatred, and greed. That's the topic at hand.

Malcolm wrote:
Christian Racism, as well as their support for slavery, is a well known phenomena:
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
This passage, among many others was used to justify slavery in the old South.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/racism-among-white-christians-higher-among-nonreligious-s-no-coincidence-ncna1235045
KeithA said:
Even at a glance, the Racism Index reveals a clear distinction. Compared to nonreligious whites, white Christians register higher median scores on the Racism Index, and the differences among white Christian subgroups are largely differences of degree rather than kind.

Malcolm wrote:
So yes, Christians are more racist than non-Christian. One cannot so neatly separate people's motivations. A racist who is a Christian is a Christian racist.

There were plenty of bibles and invocations of Jesus at the insurrection as well.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/capitol-christian-right-trump-1121236/
KeithA said:
Within hours, insurrectionists had surrounded the Capitol, beaten police, battered down barricades and doors, smashed windows and rampaged through the halls of the Capitol, breaching the Senate chamber. In video captured by The New Yorker, men ransacked the room, rifling through senators’ binders and papers, searching for evidence of what they claimed was treason. Then, standing on the rostrum where the president of the Senate presides, the group paused to pray “in Christ’s holy name.” Men raised their arms in the air as millions of evangelical and charismatic parishioners do every Sunday and thanked God for allowing them “to send a message to all the tyrants, the communists and the globalists, that this is our nation, not theirs.” They thanked God “for allowing the United States of America to be reborn.”

Malcolm wrote:
Christians are not our friends.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 10th, 2022 at 12:06 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
Episcopalians right off the top of my head. Anyway, I honestly don't believe there is an interest to look at this with a mind that is open. This is just a personal opinion I have, based on my interaction with interfaith groups I have worked with.

Malcolm wrote:
Umm....you live in New Haven, two hours south of me. We are New Englanders, and Christians in most of New England are also Democrats.

Your interfaith experience would be very different in GA, OK, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 9th, 2022 at 11:26 PM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
Sādhaka said:
I think that perhaps what is implied here, is Longchenpa being the most recent Major Lineage Holder of Dzogchen.

Maybe something similar to the Buddha Shakyamuni being the most recent Uttamanirmanakaya, vs other subsequent Buddhas being Nirmanakayas; with the next Uttamanirmanakaya being  Maitreya.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, what I am really pointing out, along the lines mentioned, is that no one since Longchenpa has demonstrated his level of mastery of Dzogchen teachings, not to mention his grasp of general Buddhist teachings. He is the gold standard. No one matches Longchenpa's achievements in writing and systematizing Dzogchen for later generations. Everyone who comes later, including Bonpos, are not even building on Longchenpa's work, it is so definitive. At best they just summarize and simplifying what he covers extensively.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 9th, 2022 at 6:32 AM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
climb-up said:
Thank you

Malcolm wrote:
And I should add, the aforementioned Sound Tantra is the original Dharma teaching of this eon, from whence all other Dharmas spring. So there is that too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 9th, 2022 at 6:28 AM
Title: Re: no conditioned entity can arise from anything other than another conditioned entity?
Content:


Artziebetter1 said:
if you can demonstrate this rationally,I will know for sure a creator God cannot exist.

Malcolm wrote:
It's fairly straight forward, an unconditioned cause must produce all of its effects simultaneously, because if it exists in time, it is conditioned, and not unconditioned. It can only produce these effects once, because if they are produced serially, then this means the unconditioned has parts, making it conditioned. There are all kinds of arguments you can read in Pudgala chapter of Abhidharmakoshabhasya, the Tattvasamgraha, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 9th, 2022 at 6:17 AM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:


Lingpupa said:
You love a grand, sweeping pronouncement, don't you Malc? I'm totally overawed.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, considering that there has not been a lineage of holder of Dzogchen since Longchenpa and won't be another one until Ḍākinī Matiśrī in the distant future, I stand by my grand, sweeping pronouncement. And of course, this grand, sweeping pronouncement isn't mine at all. It belongs to Khenpo Ngachung.

climb-up said:
What does it mean to be a lineage holder?
I've never been clear on this.

Malcolm wrote:
In this case it means a bstan 'dzin, a śāsanadhara. The actual name of the Buddha's teaching is śāsana. A śāsanadhara is one who "holds the teaching." There is a gap in the prediction in the Sound Tantra of the holders of the Dzogchen teaching between Longchenpa and the ḍākini mentioned above. Recently, Khenchen Namdrol mentioned this, apologizing slightly while stating that even tertons cannot be considered "holders of the Dzogchen teaching" in the sense mentioned above. Of course everyone who has received Dzogchen teachings is a brgyud 'dzin, paraṃparādhara, or holder of the lineage in a minor sense.

But in reality, what I mean is that no one other than Longchenpa could have written his treasures, with all his finesse and mastery of the seventeen tantras and their commentaries, not to mention the whole of Buddhist scholarship. There has been no Tibetan like him since he passed away in the middle of the 14th century. I am not talking about realization. Thousands of Tibetans have realized Dzogchen teachings to the highest level. I am talking about true mastery expressed for the benefit of sentient beings, and frankly, no one compares to him. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu himself said that among Tibetans, Longchenpa is the final word on Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 9th, 2022 at 5:48 AM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There has not really been a true Dzogchen master since Longchenpa. Everything since then has been footnotes.

Lingpupa said:
You love a grand, sweeping pronouncement, don't you Malc? I'm totally overawed.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, considering that there has not been a lineage of holder of Dzogchen since Longchenpa and won't be another one until Ḍākinī Matiśrī in the distant future, I stand by my grand, sweeping pronouncement. And of course, this grand, sweeping pronouncement isn't mine at all. It belongs to Khenpo Ngachung.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 9th, 2022 at 3:58 AM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
KeithA said:
I would be cautious about painting all Christians as conservative idealogues.

Malcolm wrote:
We are talking about Christian Nationalists aka Dominionists, like Josh Hawley, Steve Bannon, Ted Cruz, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology

See:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 9th, 2022 at 1:23 AM
Title: Re: mostly Raw organic vegan diet for mental health?
Content:
Artziebetter1 said:
I have had ocd since I was about 9 or 10 years old and it really makes my life hard and not fun.

Malcolm wrote:
Generally OCD is considered a seizure disorder. An adjunct to controlling that is a balanced diet that includes cooked grain and vegetables, fruits, and some amount of animal protein.

A raw diet will most certainly aggravate your condition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 8th, 2022 at 11:27 PM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:


Tata1 said:
I dont think this is good advice at all. One should not choose a teacher based on his rank and fame.

Malcolm wrote:
On the other hand, it is a bit easier to research such teachers and make sure of their qualifications. After all, selecting a guru is not a personality contest, it's about their qualifications to transmit the Dharma.

SilenceMonkey said:
And some people seem to have the karma of getting involved with charlatans.

Maybe it’s a bit rare to find a great dzogchen master who goes unknown within the Buddhist community. Hidden mahasiddhas…

Malcolm wrote:
There has not really been a true Dzogchen master since Longchenpa. Everything since then has been footnotes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 8th, 2022 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: What is your opinion on the presentation of Buddhism by StudyBuddhism by Dr. Berzin?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
I found his distinction between Dharma-lite and real-thing Dharma to be very helpful.

Malcolm wrote:
This distinction was coined back in the hoary old days of alt.buddhism.tibetan, Punnadhammo used the term "Buddh lite" in a post, 8/4/99. It was being used consistently by 2001.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 8th, 2022 at 10:22 PM
Title: Re: How does Buddhism describe the mechanics of the mind, conciousness, etc.
Content:
Aemilius said:
What are you aiming at? In ancient India there was no knowledge of the functioning of brains and nerves.

Malcolm wrote:
That's not true. You need to read the Sushruta Samhita.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 8th, 2022 at 12:32 AM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
Nicholas2727 said:
I can't say for certain that they are masters, but Alan Wallace and Lama Surya Das are some names that come to mind. I am not a dzogchen practitioner, but I have listened to a few talks from them and they are quite inspiring.

Nalanda said:
Lama Surya Das - Google the name. There's been some sad news on that front.

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, the Dzogchen lap dance goes a little too far, considering he was one of the first people to go after Sogyal back in the early nineties.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 8th, 2022 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:


Dan74 said:
it's really hard to imagine that people can't rally around an issue like this. Even in the US.

Malcolm wrote:
Especially in the US. The US thrives on international conflict. We have since the beginning. It is the organizing principle of this country. And when we don't have an external enemy we turn on ourselves: such as the lull after the War of 1812, there were the Indian Clearances; in the lull after the Mexican-American War, the Civil War; after reconstruction, the labor struggles; luckily, we had two world wars in a row, and that kept us occupied, and then there was the Cold War. But after the downfall of the USSR, we again turned on ourselves, principally, the conservatives started economic and social witchhunts, predicated on the false narratives of Christian Nationalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 8th, 2022 at 12:02 AM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:


Tata1 said:
I dont think this is good advice at all. One should not choose a teacher based on his rank and fame.

Malcolm wrote:
On the other hand, it is a bit easier to research such teachers and make sure of their qualifications. After all, selecting a guru is not a personality contest, it's about their qualifications to transmit the Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 7th, 2022 at 6:40 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:


Shinjin said:
What do you disagree with?

Malcolm wrote:
This dude is just a grifter, that's all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 7th, 2022 at 5:29 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sure, you can have a great career as as grifter, just like this guy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 7th, 2022 at 5:15 AM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
Miorita said:
I don't think it's permissible to fragment my opinion. It's personal and not up for discussion.

Malcolm wrote:
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted."

--Last testament of Hassan I Sabbah


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 6th, 2022 at 11:30 PM
Title: Re: The Cornpone Intifada - Jan. 6, 2020
Content:
Queequeg said:
I've read and heard a lot of names for the events in D.C. on Jan. 6, 2020, but I think Cornpone Intifada might be the best one by far. It captures the ridiculousness of those events, even as serious and dangerous as they were.

Malcolm wrote:
well, this question from the Atlantic article is easily answered:
​ [W]hy some of the best-educated men and women in the country, the most invested in its power, the luckiest, have overseen the destruction of their institutions like spoiled teenagers smashing up their parents’ house on a weekend bender.
Christian Nationalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 6th, 2022 at 5:12 AM
Title: Re: Upcoming Translations
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
other than his decision to merge dharmata and tathata into a single term.

ManiThePainter said:
I’ve been thinking about this recently. What is the significance of translating them all as “reality”? Does it alter the meaning of the text based on the context?

Patacelsus said:
One is naked reality and one is suchness. They seemed to me to be speaking to the nature of reality in general and the nature of a specific thing in particular. But that is just my own sense of it, it could be that they are technical terms in tantra and translating them both that way was just sloppy. I'm guessing someone with more knowledge will answer eventually. I'm looking forward to it.

Malcolm wrote:
Dharmatā is a complicated technical term, used in many contexts. It is usually contrasted with dharmin. In short, in the context it is used in Buddhapalita is illustrated in one case in this way. Take this passage, which is a very minor point, but I would do it differently:

།དེ་བཞིན་དུ་གཞན་ནས་ཀྱང་འདུས་བྱས་དེ་ནི་སླུ་བའི་ཆོས་ཀྱང་ཡིན། དེ་ནི་རབ་ཏུ་འཇིག་པའི་ཆོས་ཀྱང་ཡིན་ནོ་ཞེས་འདུ་བྱེད་ཐམས་ཅད་སླུ་བའི་ཆོས་ཅན་ཡིན་
པར་གསུངས་སོ། །དེའི་ཕྱིར་འདུ་བྱེད་ཐམས་ཅད་སླུ་བའི་ཆོས་ཉིད་དེས། ཐམས་ཅད་བརྫུན་པ་ཉིད་ཡིན་ཏེ།

Coughlin (pg. 174, line 3-6) has:

Furthermore, he also declared in another [sūtra]:

Conditioned states are also deceptive phenomena. They are also phenomena that fully distintegrate.

This states that all formations are deceptive phenomena. Since all formations are deceptive phenomena, therefore, all of them are false.

I would have rendered this passage in this way:

In the same way, elsewhere [he stated] that all formations are deceptive phenomena (dharmin), "The compounded are also deceptive phenomena (dharma), and they are also phenomena that totally perish." Therefore, since all formations have deceptive natures (dharmatā), all are false.

Otherwise, his translation is just fine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 6th, 2022 at 3:14 AM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
Nicholas2727 said:
I can't say for certain that they are masters, but Alan Wallace and Lama Surya Das are some names that come to mind. I am not a dzogchen practitioner, but I have listened to a few talks from them and they are quite inspiring.

Malcolm wrote:
The term "Dzogchen master" does not exist in Tibetan. It is cribbed from the earlier neologism, "Zen master," coined by D.T. Suzuki and appearing first in an article he wrote for the Journal of the Pali Text Society in 1906.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 6th, 2022 at 1:18 AM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
gelukman said:
Not forgetting Yungdrung Bon. If you are after dzogchen, probably easy to connect.
Some have issues to see it as one school within others like nyingma, sakya, kagyu,geluk.
And what school is very kuntuzangpo? Yungdrung Bon...Maybe more than nyingma?

Malcolm wrote:
It depends on how one is approaching Dzogchen, as a school or a vehicle. If approached as vehicle, than the name, Buddhist or Bon does not matter much, not to mention, Nyingma etc. If one approaches it from the point of view of school, then Dzogchen becomes limited by sectarian considerations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 11:44 PM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
naljor said:
Yes, we all know...but we have to work with circumstances

Malcolm wrote:
In this case, how? He is not a "living" dzogchen master, other than in the hearts of his direct disciples.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 11:28 PM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
naljor said:
When it comes to vast and deep knowledge of dzogchen, like three series, i remember only one - ChNN, otherwise there are
many great teachers with knowledge and lineages of transmitions.

Malcolm wrote:
Unfortunately, that ship sailed in 2018. The world has been a shit show ever since.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 10:26 PM
Title: Re: True Mind is No Mind
Content:
yinyangkoi said:
After I read this my mind stopped and there was just reality, I was so present and awake like never before. It stopped after a few moments.

Malcolm wrote:
Your mind needs a brake job.

yinyangkoi said:
What does that mean? You mean the brakes are old and it doesn't brake enough? I should brake more?
It was like a melt away or disappearing.

Malcolm wrote:
It was a joke...since you said it did not stop immediately...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 10:13 PM
Title: Re: True Mind is No Mind
Content:
yinyangkoi said:
After I read this my mind stopped and there was just reality, I was so present and awake like never before. It stopped after a few moments.

Malcolm wrote:
Your mind needs a brake job.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 12:48 PM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
gelukman said:
Before covid you could fly to chengdu for 400usd. From chengdu you are very close
the ancient tibetan gompas. I would start there.

Malcolm wrote:
That works for those fluent in Tibetan, for others, not so much.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 9:43 AM
Title: Re: Living Dzogchen Masters?
Content:
Nalanda said:
Hello,

Does anyone know who the genuine, accessible, Dzogchen Masters are of today?
The ones who don't appear to have any controversy surrounding them.
The ones who will take on Western students.
The ones who are part of a legitimate lineage.
The ones who have reached completion. (I realise this one is speculative)

Thanks for your help.

Regards

Malcolm wrote:
Chokyi Nyima, etc.,
Rabjam Rinpoche,
Tulku Dakpa,
Erik Pema Kunsang,
Khenchen Namdrol
Sangye Khandro and lama Chonam
Sogan Rinpoche



Just off the top of my head


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 5:30 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Tenma said:
In the Indian and Tibetan understanding of the elements, were they meant to be literally taken as the 5 literal elements (like the body is literally made out of fire, water, etc.) or more their "essences" (like the Aristotelians and Medievalists with a "fiery property" of a plant making it rise, the "earthy property" of objects making them fall down, etc.)?

Malcolm wrote:
According to the Indian Buddhist, and later Tibetan ideas of the elements, all matter is made up of the four elements in differing proportions. The four elements never exist as differentiated substances, they are properties of matter——solidity (earth), liquidity (water), heat (fire), and motility (air)——according to the Kośa. The most extensive Buddhist teachings on the elements is in Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 5:24 AM
Title: Re: Killing a living being when it's sick
Content:
seeker242 said:
100% fatal case of rabies.

Malcolm wrote:
Sometimes, killing IS the Mahāyāna thing to do. And if one refuses, then one breaks one's Mahāyāna vows. It depends, it's case by case. If a horse breaks its leg, it is best to kill it, and so on. A rabid dog or any other animal must be put down. A human intent on harming other humans out of sheer malice, well, if you have a gun...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 4:10 AM
Title: Re: When did the Buddha teach the Prajñāpāramitā and Pure Land Sūtra?
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
What is Sa skya Paṇḍita's understanding of what "the third turning" is? The tantras or another particular class of sūtra?

Malcolm wrote:
Sutras, such as the Lanka, and other cittamatra texts, and those sutras such as the Samadhirāja.

He considered the cittamatra sūtras of the third turning and the first turning provisional, and third turning sutras like Samadhirāja and the second turning definitive.

Könchok Thrinley said:
Since C mentioned it, did Buddha teach the tantras also physically to few students or through manifestations?

Malcolm wrote:
According to tradition, the Buddha taught the lower tantras in the deva realms as a bhikṣu, and the higher tantras such as Kalacakra and Guhyasamāja in sambhogakāya forms, meaning, this was not visible to ordinary people or even bodhisattvas below the 8th bhumi.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: Tsigdön Dzö translations?
Content:


Rune said:
May I ask, are you considering translating further Tantras? I've been looking around, but there's nothing definite out there. Hope it's OK that I ask you directly, then

Malcolm wrote:
I am presently working on the root text and commentary to the sgra thal 'gyur, aiming for a publication date of no later than mid 2024.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 2:19 AM
Title: Re: Tsigdön Dzö translations?
Content:
Rune said:
Hello all

Does anybody know anything about the presumably in process translations of Tsigdön Dzö, by Richard Barron

Malcolm wrote:
I think that project was cancelled for lack of funding.


Rune said:
and David Germano?

Malcolm wrote:
To be published by Wisdom, or so I have heard.

But you will never get a better explanation that Khenpo Namdrol's commentary.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 2:12 AM
Title: Re: When did the Buddha teach the Prajñāpāramitā and Pure Land Sūtra?
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
What is Sa skya Paṇḍita's understanding of what "the third turning" is? The tantras or another particular class of sūtra?

Malcolm wrote:
Sutras, such as the Lanka, and other cittamatra texts, and those sutras such as the Samadhirāja.

He considered the cittamatra sūtras of the third turning and the first turning provisional, and third turning sutras like Samadhirāja and the second turning definitive.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 1:25 AM
Title: Re: When did the Buddha teach the Prajñāpāramitā and Pure Land Sūtra?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sa skya Paṇḍita's perspective is as follows:

First, he taught the śravaka sūtras for 7 years, beginning in Varanasi. Then, during the reign of Bimbisara, the Buddha taught Prajñāpāramita for 10 years. Then, he taught the third turning for 28 years, with various sūtras of both provisional and definitive import. So, he divides the Buddha's teaching into three periods.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Aemilius said:
It is not merely a matter of faith.

Malcolm wrote:
It is purely a matter of faith.

Aemilius said:
There are hundreds, thousands or hundred thousands and millions of people who have practiced various spiritual disciplines and have attained the capabilities of seeing with the celestial eye (divya chakshu) or hearing with the celestial ear (divya shrotra) or seeing the past lives or future lives (purvanivasanusmriti). This is factual evidence for the phenomenon of extra sensory perception.

Malcolm wrote:
No, there is no evidence whatsoever, since there is no empirical evidence of such capacities among human beings at all. There are only anecdotal claims. Anyone can claim anything about such abilities, but since no one can verify their claims, such claims do not form proofs of any sort. Such claims merely form narratives, which some people adopt and other people ignore. Then of course there are some people that are completely bereft of common sense and reason who still insist the earth is flat, that the sun and moon rotate around Mt. Meru, and so on, using arguments that sound just like Roman Inquisition, who convicted Galileo of heresy:
In February 1616, an Inquisitorial commission declared heliocentrism to be "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture". The Inquisition found that the idea of the Earth's movement "receives the same judgement in philosophy and ... in regard to theological truth it is at least erroneous in faith"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

Aemilius said:
There is only a reluctance or a denial  of studying an investigating it. And a reluctance of investing money and resources in the studying and researching this aspect of reality.

Malcolm wrote:
Not so. There is also a lack of ability to test such claims, since such claims could only be verified by people with similar faculties, and not by people lacking them. This requires that people who lack such faculties accept on faith the claims of people who claim to possess such faculties, since the former cannot verify the claims of the latter at all, as you admit below, and the latter can never prove their claims to the former, which is something you overlook.

Aemilius said:
We would quite certainly get results in this field, if equal amount of money  was spent in this field, as is spent in the construction of particle accelerators and other gadgets of that kind.

Malcolm wrote:
Probably not, since one could not create a proper double-blind study, and so on, to test such claims. And we already know, according to the Abhidharmakośa and so on, that beings in a lower realm are incapable of perceiving those in higher realms, absent some special power, which cannot be reliable reproduced.

Aemilius said:
There is knowledge that is not accepted by the great multitudes, and it is still knowledge.  Buddha speaks of the Arhats or Aryas that are above the great multitudes of people. They are like someone who has climbed on a great mountain peak and can see far from it. They can see what the ordinary people and the vast multitudes on the plains cannot see.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and so ordinary people, those not blinded by religion, generally don't accept things they cannot personally verify, either through direct perception or inference. And it is certainly the case that one's liberation does not hinge upon whether one accepts or rejects Meru cosmology and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 10:39 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Aemilius said:
"The Śūraṅgama Sūtra was translated into Tibetan...

Malcolm wrote:
A Tibetan translation is no guarantee of an Indian source: example, Vajrasamādhi Sūtra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 12:20 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It’s a Chinese pseudographia, so I really don’t care what it says.

Ode to Joy said:
Well, since you mentioned Dharmakirti stating that Buddha couldnt count the number worms in the ground, and there is a Buddhist classic, whether it's to your liking or not, in which a statement is found that Buddha could count the number of raindrops that fell in a day, you can't blame a person for comparing the two - they eminently invite contrast and comparison.

Malcolm wrote:
The difference is that Dharmakirti was a real person, whereas the Buddha of the Shurnagama is a fictional character.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 12:17 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Ode to Joy said:
On the contrary, Buddhist cosmology is entirely spiritual: Tell me how many times the word "Spiritual" occurs below in these excerpts from A Cascading Waterfall of Nectar. I

Malcolm wrote:
It really doesn’t matter how many times Trinley Norbu uses the word “spiritual.” It does not make his point of view about Buddhist cosmology valid.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 12:13 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Ode to Joy said:
"Buddhist cosmology is doubtlessly true because it comes from the teachings of the Buddha,

Malcolm wrote:
Fallacy of argument from authority, I, and most people, don’t consider ancient Buddhist texts on cosmology authoritative descriptions of the physical universe.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 12:06 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It’s perfectly fine. As Dharmakirti quipped, Buddha’s omniscience did not extend to knowing the number of worms in the ground.

Ode to Joy said:
In the Shuramgama Sutra,

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a Chinese pseudographia, so I really don’t care what it says.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 12:02 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
(I’m not sure if he understood the moon wasn’t really a ‘disc’ as it appears in visualization practice).

Although he seemed a bit perplexed, as the night went on, the lama was very eager to learn all sorts of new things he’d never been taught growing up in a monastery.

As lovely as Buddhist cosmology is, with the universe having directions like East and West for example, and as useful as Buddhist astrology might be for offering a unified theory of everything, it all pales compared to even the limited scientific knowledge we have of the known universe so far.

Sorry, I know that’s going to piss some folks off.

Ode to Joy said:
In fact, there are many grounds to suppose that the Sun and Moon are indeed discs.

Malcolm wrote:
Such as?


Ode to Joy said:
Instead, a nihilistic universe


Malcolm wrote:
Universes can’t be nihilistic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 11:49 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
To describe him as having limited knowledge is not right at all.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s perfectly fine. As Dharmakirti quipped, Buddha’s omniscience did not extend to knowing the number of worms in the ground.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 11:46 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Well, no, photons are empirically detectable, unlike say, Mt. Meru.


Ode to Joy said:
Whether or not photons do empirically exist (there are many Buddhist sutra teachings on the nature of light which in my opinion are much more valuable than modern scientific ones), Mt Meru isn't meant to be empirically detectable, it's a spiritual phenomenon.

Malcolm wrote:
So it isn’t responsible for the sky being blue?


Ode to Joy said:
What troubles me is why these very easily understood teachings which are founded on simple principles cause people so much trauma.  And why people are aggrieved at Buddhists who follow the Buddha's teaching.  Shouldn't they also be aggrieved at the Buddha for teaching a spiritual cosmology and not the current nihilist one - which has, after all, only existed for the last 500 out of the countless years and kalpas of our universe.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddha didn’t teach a “spiritual cosmology.”  Buddhists taught a version of samsara’s three realms based on an axial mountain cosmology, which has since been falsified.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 10:57 AM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:


Ode to Joy said:
So in other words that sutra, Karandavyuha, is indeed found in the sutra section.  Why did you say it was in the Tantra section?

Malcolm wrote:
I didn’t. I said it was considered a kalpa tantra. There is no independent section for this class of tantra. I explained what that meant.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 10:15 AM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
another poster here say that it WAS alright to recite dharanis from the Tantra class?

Malcolm wrote:
Another poster did not say this. Another poster said certain dharanis. The mani is a vidya mantra, it requires transmission. It’s that simple.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 7:02 AM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:


ManiThePainter said:
Malcolm holds the Acharya title and has been practicing Dzogchen and Buddhism for decades. Anyone who browses these forums regularly also knows that he is an extremely meticulously translator, having published several books, and that he places a lot of importance on terminology, grammar and semantics.

Tell us, what are your Buddhist credentials?

Ode to Joy said:
Appeal to authority fallacy isn't going to help you here I'm afraid, we are talking about something specific. He has stated that people reciting the 6 syllable mantra is "somewhat harmless" - not even beneficial - which is an extraordinary statement, completely against the Buddhist spirit, I am sure you can agree.  Or perhaps you don't think that laypeople should be allowed to recite the Mani mantra.  Fine...you're allowed to think that.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. Reciting some mantras without transmission is somewhat harmlessl, and not of much benefit. Dharanis on the other hand, for the most part do not require transmission, but vidya mantras always do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 4:13 AM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:



Ode to Joy said:
If so, then one should not be able to adopt the mantra "Om Mani Padme Hum" as one's personal, regular mantra by oneself.

Malcolm wrote:
In the sūtra where it is first found, the Karaṇḍavyūha, it is specified that the maṇi must be bestowed in a mandala rite. The text also discusses the qualities of the master (ācārya), maṇḍalas, etc. So, correct, the maṇi should be just be adopted as a mantra. In practice, people do so, and it is somewhat harmless, but it does not actually correspond how it is taught in that text.


In the tantra in question, a personal mantra is the mantra given during empowerment.

Tenma said:
How does a complex, secret mantra become a commonplace mantra recited by everyone such as that of the Maṇi mantra? Any recommended sources on this phenomenon?

Malcolm wrote:
Largely because of Atisha. He revived the practice in Tibet.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 3:48 AM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
It also does not provide justification for your initial claim, " One may come to adopt a mantra as one's personal, regular mantra by oneself due to karma from previous lives, without the direct intercession of a teacher in this life."

Ode to Joy said:
If so, then one should not be able to adopt the mantra "Om Mani Padme Hum" as one's personal, regular mantra by oneself.

Malcolm wrote:
In the sūtra where it is first found, the Karaṇḍavyūha, it is specified that the maṇi must be bestowed in a mandala rite. The text also discusses the qualities of the master (ācārya), maṇḍalas, etc. So, correct, the maṇi should not just be adopted as a mantra. In practice, people do so, and it is somewhat harmless, but it does not actually correspond how it is taught in that text.


In the tantra in question, a personal mantra is the mantra given during empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 3:29 AM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
But as with any prophecy, one wouldn't know until the time comes; just as for instance the Buddha's predictions about the Abrahamic lineage given in the Kalacakra Tantra

Malcolm wrote:
Was written in the mid-10th century, so no.

Ode to Joy said:
as with the line of Indian kings prophesied in the Manjushri Mula Kalpa;

Malcolm wrote:
Was written no earlier than the 7th century, so no.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 3:24 AM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:


Tenma said:
What was the origin of these Benedictory Verses, out of curiosity?

Malcolm wrote:
The smon lam is not an issue at all.

Tenma said:
Is the term "prophecy" correct in translation like in English or are there some underlying things we need to know about rather than just meaning a "prediction"?

Malcolm wrote:
ma 'ongs lung bstan: literally a declaration (vyākaraṇa, lung bstan) about what has not yet come to pass (anāgata, ma 'ongs).

Tenma said:
I'm assuming that the "declaration about what has not yet come to pass" in the smon lam may refer to something else I guess rather than the alleged prophecy text in that case?
Also, what other prophecy texts in the Himalayas have been made in the past with similar sorts of wording, styles, themes, etc., whether on the local level or not? And would you count Delog Drolma as a visionary who would expound ma 'ongs lung bstan even though she was more about saying who was where at birth or are there different categories of a "visionary"? And how different would this be from Tibetan divinatory terms?

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, most predictions come from termas, can be quite cryptic, often include events that have already happened to bolster their credibility, are sometimes employed by tertons for political leverage, and so on.

Most (but not all) delogs are uneducated Tibetan women, ordinary people who wake up from comas, and report visions of the six realms, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:


Tenma said:
What was the origin of these Benedictory Verses, out of curiosity?

Malcolm wrote:
The smon lam is not an issue at all.

Tenma said:
Is the term "prophecy" correct in translation like in English or are there some underlying things we need to know about rather than just meaning a "prediction"?

Malcolm wrote:
ma 'ongs lung bstan: literally a declaration (vyākaraṇa, lung bstan) about what has not yet come to pass (anāgata, ma 'ongs).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 3:01 AM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:



Ode to Joy said:
As for your comments on Dzogchen, I submit that the entire body of Dzogchen outlines a path  that is entirely non conceptual and beyond mind, and it states endlessly that it transcends the dialectics of the lower 8 vehicles

Malcolm wrote:
It does not mean that empowerment is not required. Empowerment is required in Dzogchen, point is made very clearly in the Self-Arisen Vidyā Tantra, the Sound Tantra, which is the root tantra of all Dzogchen teachings, and others.

It also does not provide justification for your initial claim, " One may come to adopt a mantra as one's personal, regular mantra by oneself due to karma from previous lives, without the direct intercession of a teacher in this life."

You really ought not argue with me about such issues. You are just making yourself look pompous and foolish.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 2:56 AM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:


PeterC said:
Very, very little is self-explanatory.  One point that is absolutely not self-explanatory in this text is which century it refers to, for instance.

Ode to Joy said:
Since the Master revealed the text in the 1950s

Malcolm wrote:
No, he collated it from two different source texts, as the 1979 colophon clearly states:

ston mchod thub pa'i dbang po'i ma 'ongs lung bstan 'di la yi ge 'dra min gnyis snang yang...

Literally, "Though this prediction by the supreme teacher, the powerful Muni, appears in two different texts..."

In fact, the introduction to the four volume set of predictions published by Palyul (lung bstan phyogs btus/. TBRC W3CN532. 4 vols. dpal yul rdzong /: dpal ya chen o rgyan bsam gtan gling /, [n.d.]. http://tbrc.org/link?RID=W3CN532 ) states on page 1:

Here, though the mother text of this prediction of the future that originates in sūtra was found in Ngari in the past, because its origin was unknown, it was neglected for some time. Later, the mother text was found in a collection of prediction texts at Rahor, Trakgo Dzongtsang, with slightly different wording. Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodo collected these (phyogs bsdus mdzad) in India...

Then this introduction just goes on to say it was published in Delhi in 1979, etc. And also it adds that as the later mother text (the one from Rahor) was thought to be uncorrupted, this is the version presented in the Karma Kagyu publication.

Thus, it is most definitely not a modern text, it is most definitely not a terma, and it is most definitely one of two witnesses—one from Ngari in western Tibet, one from Rahor, in Kham—collected, but not revealed, by Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodo.


Ode to Joy said:
it is perfectly reasonable to accept that it refers to a current 60 year cycle, and not hundreds of years in the future.

Malcolm wrote:
In fact, since there are different versions of the text which predate JKCL, these predicted events could have happened hundreds of years ago, especially since it is claimed it is a prediction sourced in the sūtras.

Ode to Joy said:
Benedictory Verses for The Clarifying Light: A Prophecy of the Future
by Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö

Malcolm wrote:
This a separate text.

This prediction text also exists in a form attributed to Dujdom Rinpoche, Jigdral Yeshe Dorje.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 4th, 2022 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: Being on the high bhumis without knowing?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There are three stages: weak, medium, and strong. The first is practiced in secret, the second, in your back yard, only the third can be carried out in the marketplace.


Sādhaka said:
Is this all explained in the above-mentioned text?

Of course there are a few extensive texts on Lamdre out there in English, however I’m not practicing Sakya Lamdre as of now, and currently have other studies; therefore am hoping that Jetsun Drakpa Gyaltsen’s text is available in English.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.

It is not yet available in English.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: When did the Buddha teach the Prajñāpāramitā and Pure Land Sūtra?
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Possibly. It strikes me as odd that there isn't a Mahāyāna "life of the Buddha" text, or several, that outline the supposed chronology of the sūtras to the śrāvakas and the bodhisattvas.

Malcolm wrote:
Sapan gives somewhat of an account. But I have not taken to the time to summarize it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:


Ode to Joy said:
Those are all good citations, the meaning of which is clear and well known and undisputed.

For my part, I submit The Sutra that Brings Together the Contemplations of All the Buddhas, where there are statements such as:

""Great monk, I have heard that the skillful means of the teacher is a path in which one practices howsoever.  Can that be understood as just the present [state]?"  "

"To which came the reply, "O son of good lineage, it is indeed suitable to say that the [path] is whatever occurs in the present".

Malcolm wrote:
This is not a citation that proves your point on any level, you've also misunderstood the context of the passage, which concerns Black Liberation (thar pa nag po) and his servant Danpag.

In any case, you will not find in any Dzogchen text your central claim:

One may come to adopt a mantra as one's personal, regular mantra by oneself due to karma from previous lives, without the direct intercession of a teacher in this life.

This is just your own fabrication, with no support from any source.

I am afraid here, you are closer to Black Liberation than Danpag.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 10:50 PM
Title: Re: 5 Elements
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
So..."nirgunam tattvahinam" space - devoid of qualities and apart from reality - is compounded space?

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, according to the commentary by Lama Dampa (who composed the most extensive Tibetan commentary on the text), it refers to a void with lacks qualities. Hinam in this context refers to the ordinary five elements, tattva refers to the principle (tattvahinam, de nyid kyis dman pa'o) which is the single void (stong pa gcig pu) that pervades the five elements, so it is not space at all in the normal sense of the term. So this translation you are relying on is also slightly incorrect. It should be something like:

Outside that is the single void, separate from the three realms, the principle devoid of qualities that [pervades] the inferior [elements].

Ode to Joy said:
Thanks for that citation it's interesting.  The whole topic is difficult to think about I'm still not clear on the difference between ordinary space and the single void.  If a single void pervades even the akasha dhatu does that mean something is being pervaded and what could that thing be?  Otherwise it would be space pervading space which sounds counterintuitive.  What is the exact difference between the single void and the ordinary akasha element  - is there a difference?  Maybe this is why you find the word aether to distinguish it from "the principle devoid of qualities that pervades the inferior elements" because people are trying to comprehend space pervaded by space.

Malcolm wrote:
The commentary makes it clear that this single void is not the same as "space with qualities." Other than that, there is not much else on this point.

Basically, the quality of "formed" space is sound, whose particles correspond to taste, and who permeate the other four elements and provide space between objects. See Ornament of Stainless Light, Khedrup Norzang Gyatso, pg. 79, and page 87m ,where he discusses this passage specifically. He says this space, which is a dimension where the particles of the five elements are disconnected, is a "mere emptiness" or as I translated above, a void.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 10:12 PM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
Everything about the sutra...

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a sūtra. One, the system of animal years is unknown in any text uttered by the Buddha. Two, the so-called "mantra" in the text is clearly just a Tibetan phrase with svāhā appended to it. Not harmful in and of itself, but also not a valid mantra.

Ode to Joy said:
What other texts in the other collected works of other masters are you going to question as to their validity, and on what grounds? You will need to second guess the whole process of how such collections are compiled, the knowledge and qualifications of the individuals and communities doing the compiling and so forth.

Malcolm wrote:
There are many dubious texts found in the collected works of various people, just as there are dubious texts found in the Kenjur and Tenjur. Buton excluded hundreds of tantras from the Kenjur because, in his opinion, they were of dubious origin. Ngorchen Kunga Zangpo gives an entire list of kriya tantras, including the Tārā Tantra, which are forgeries, in his opinion.

For example, I have found texts authored by Tibetans that were repurposed as termas. In one case, a core text of Lamdre authored by Sachen Kunga Nyingpo was repurposed and included in the collected termas of a rather famous 17th century terton, whose name I won't mention, because some feelings might be hurt.

There are a lot of politics around what gets included and excluded from a given collection. So yes, there is often a "need to second guess the whole process of how such collections are compiled, the knowledge and qualifications of the individuals and communities doing the compiling and so forth..."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 9:19 PM
Title: Re: How can you tell if a lama is a monk? Confused about robes.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In general, in the Gelug school, if you give up your monastic vows you also give up the title “Geshe.”

KathyLauren said:
Interesting.  Of the two gentlemen I knew, both Gelugpa, one went by the title 'Lama', and the other, who taught at the local university, went by 'Professor'.  So that makes sense.

However, in both cases, their students referred to them as 'geshe-la', as s sign of respect, in recognition that the degree was something earned by hard work.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but in Old Tibet, their career would have been finished.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 9:08 PM
Title: Re: How can you tell if a lama is a monk? Confused about robes.
Content:
Nalanda said:
I know white robes are for lay teachers.

But sometimes you see orange/red colored robe wearing lama...with hair or long hair.

Then I learned that Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche isn't a monk.

So how can I know if a lama is a monastic?

Are khenchen, khenpo and geshes monastics?

KathyLauren said:
One way would be to ask, either the lama himself or someone in his entourage.

Geshe is an academic degree, like doctor of divinity.  In the old days, most geshes would have been monks.  That is less true nowadays.  I knew a couple of geshes who were lay people.  Both had been monks in the past, but had given up their robes when they moved to the West.  The geshe degree, of course, remains.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy

Malcolm wrote:
In general, in the Gelug school, if you give up your monastic vows you also give up the title “Geshe.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 8:58 PM
Title: Re: How can you tell if a lama is a monk? Confused about robes.
Content:
Nalanda said:
I know white robes are for lay teachers.

But sometimes you see orange/red colored robe wearing lama...with hair or long hair.

Then I learned that Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche isn't a monk.

So how can I know if a lama is a monastic?

Are khenchen, khenpo and geshes monastics?

Malcolm wrote:
You can figure it out based on whether they wear a lower robe (monk) or a half chuba (upasaka).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 12:58 PM
Title: Re: 5 Elements
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
So..."nirgunam tattvahinam" space - devoid of qualities and apart from reality - is compounded space?

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, according to the commentary by Lama Dampa (who composed the most extensive Tibetan commentary on the text), it refers to a void with lacks qualities. Hinam in this context refers to the ordinary five elements, tattva refers to the principle (tattvahinam, de nyid kyis dman pa'o) which is the single void (stong pa gcig pu) that pervades the five elements, so it is not space at all in the normal sense of the term. So this translation you are relying on is also slightly incorrect. It should be something like:

Outside that is the single void, separate from the three realms, the principle devoid of qualities that [pervades] the inferior [elements].


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 11:33 AM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
One may come to adopt a mantra as one's personal, regular mantra by oneself due to karma from previous lives, without the direct intercession of a teacher in this life.
No, one may not. Such practice is disallowed. You should consult Sakya Pandita on this point in his Differentiation of the Three Codes.

Ode to Joy said:
There are too many teachings to name which contradict that, that's alright.

Malcolm wrote:
There are no such teachings in Buddhadharma which contradict this. You can't name even one. For example, the Vajramāla Tantra states:

A mantra is not to be given
to a sentient being who has not received empowerment,
nor should the wise show an image
or a book to such a one.

Similar admonitions occur in Kālacakra, Abhidhānottaratantra, Mahāmudrātilaka, and so on. As far as practicing secret mantra goes without a proper teacher and empowerment, this is strictly prohibited for the same reason. The Mahāmudrātilaka states:

Whoever pridefully elucidates 
the tantras and upadeśas to one lacking empowerment
as soon as they die, both master and disciple
go to hell, even if siddhi is obtained.

And:

If one pleases the guru, the king of mantras
will doubtlessly be attained.
If it is not attained in that way, it is faulty,
and even if one receives a mantra, it will not be effective.

Even in lower tantras, it is the same, for example, the Vairocana-abhisambodhi states:

Without empowerment, the source of secret gnosis, 
there is no mantra.

And of course in the Tenjur, there are hundreds of such admonitions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 11:14 AM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
What is still not clear is where the text or perhaps body of texts originally came from

Malcolm wrote:
Correct. That alone makes it of dubious value. It may be an utter forgery.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 10:42 AM
Title: Re: Prophecies of Dolpopa
Content:



Terma said:
Agreed. This is in general, a topic that one can chase their own tail over.

Malcolm wrote:
It's like the use of the Mañjuśrīmula Kalpa. Many people are predicted using the same passages...

Tenma said:
Over in the sectarian spirit cult, I've seen their deceased teacher

Malcolm wrote:
Not deceased. Alive and living in Spain.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 6:10 AM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:


Ode to Joy said:
incidentally it doesn't specify "the mantra given by one's acarya".

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, the tantra does in general.

Ode to Joy said:
One may come to adopt a mantra as one's personal, regular mantra by oneself due to karma from previous lives, without the direct intercession of a teacher in this life.

Malcolm wrote:
No, one may not. Such practice is disallowed. You should consult Sakya Pandita on this point in his Differentiation of the Three Codes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 6:07 AM
Title: Re: 5 Elements
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The dhātu of space pervades everything without obstruction, so no, that is the just the void between worlds.

Ode to Joy said:
So the kind of space indicated by the line "tad bahye shunyamekam tribhuvanarahitam nirgunam tattvahinam" ("Outside of that [the three worlds] is the single void, separate from the three existences, without qualities and bereft of properties") is simply referring to the ordinary akasha-dhatu found within the world system, as taught in Abhidharma...

Malcolm wrote:
It is referring to compounded space as dimension and area, not uncompounded space, which is unimpeded and penetrates mount meru, and cannot be conceived of as outside the three realms, and so on.

Ode to Joy said:
I see how this is sensible, space is space after all, but still curious why such a specific description of in Kalacakra. And also curious about Phillipe Cornu's use of the specific term "aether" in his Tibetan Cosmology to render the space element.

Malcolm wrote:
You'll have to ask him. For me personally, it makes no sense to confuse things by translating nam mkha' as aether.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 6:02 AM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:


Ode to Joy said:
That line is glossed (Im not exactly sure by whom)

Malcolm wrote:
Adam's translation is much better than the one you've posted.

Ode to Joy said:
...the translation posted here is accompanied by the following interesting comments:

"...an American translator of Tibetan Buddhist texts, Malcolm Smith, who is a long-term student of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, a well-known teacher of Dzogchen practices, attested to the accuracy of the translation below on the Tibetan Buddhist Altar Facebook page,⁠⁵ saying: “There is no problem with the translation, it is fine as it is.”

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, that was based on a superficial examination of the text I made many years ago. Adam's is much better since he consulted multiple editions and had the assistance of a direct disciple of JKCL, Alak Zankar Rinpoche. But if you looked a little further, I also disputed the idea that the dates were necessarily in the immediate future, etc.

I don't give much credit to prediction texts. They are too vague and can be read a hundred ways.

Ode to Joy said:
No further details are offered as to this but this indicates a sort of "mind terma" or other kind of terma which is perfectly reasonable for someone like Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodro.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a mind terma of JKCL.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 4:17 AM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:


Ode to Joy said:
That line is glossed (Im not exactly sure by whom)

Malcolm wrote:
Adam's translation is much better than the one you've posted.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 4:14 AM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:
Chenda said:
In BDK America's translation of https://bdkamerica.org/download/1875, the term regular mantra gets used from Chapter Seven (606b) onwards. While I don't think the sutra is in any way relevant to my current level of studies, I am interested in knowing the context behind the term.

Malcolm wrote:
The term in the Tibetan text is rang gi sngags, one's personal mantra, that's all, nothing more.

Ode to Joy said:
BDK's  translation is from the Chinese translation, not the Tibetan.  Perhaps the Chinese is also "one's own", but the translator used the word "regular".  Or, perhaps the Chinese does say "regular".  In either case the sense is comparable: familiarity, regularity, primacy, default, go-to, automatic, personal, main.

Malcolm wrote:
The original is in Sanskrit, now lost. Nevertheless, it just means one's personal mantra, nothing more. The Tibetan is very clear.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 4:08 AM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:
Chenda said:
In BDK America's translation of https://bdkamerica.org/download/1875, the term regular mantra gets used from Chapter Seven (606b) onwards. While I don't think the sutra is in any way relevant to my current level of studies, I am interested in knowing the context behind the term.

Malcolm wrote:
The term in the Tibetan text is rang gi sngags, one's personal mantra, that's all, nothing more.

Chenda said:
And this may refer to any mantra of one's choosing?

Malcolm wrote:
No, it refers to the mantra one has received from one's ācārya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 4:03 AM
Title: Re: 5 Elements
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Space is not a mahabhuta, but it is a dhatu. Unconditioned space is considered “real” in the sense that it is a dharma, that’s all, along with the two cessations.

Kalacakra is an entirely different thing. It’s “particles of space” are compounded. But this idea has no relevance outside of the Kalacakra system,

Ode to Joy said:
The space-particles, specifically connected to the genesis of a new universe, are a different thing than what I was thinking of which is Kalacakra Tantra, chapter 1, verse 10 where it's stated:

"Outside of that, [the limit of wind to the border of wind], is the single void (shunyameka), separate from the three existences, without qualities and bereft of properties (nirgunam tattvahina)".

I am wondering if the space of this "nirgunam tattvahina" single void outside of our universe so specifically described here is the same as the space within the border of wind and border of Meru, the space for the continents, Meru, wheel of houses and stars.  In other words, is it akasha-dhatu?  Since the emphasis on lack of qualities and reality (Tattva) for this space is this meant to suggest that the space within our universe holds certain qualities and properties..such as those ascribed to "aether" in Veda and medieval West and that some people talk about today.  ( I understand that Abhidharma wouldnt support this idea).  Especially since importance is placed on the element of wind as the basis of the universe.  Does the wind element somehow condition the space element within samsara? This could have something to do with the Vedic theories and remember that in Kalacakra Buddha explains that he himself taught the 4 Vedas.

Malcolm wrote:
The dhātu of space pervades everything without obstruction, so no, that is the just the void between worlds.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 3:27 AM
Title: Re: Regular mantra as opposed to...?
Content:
Chenda said:
In BDK America's translation of https://bdkamerica.org/download/1875, the term regular mantra gets used from Chapter Seven (606b) onwards. While I don't think the sutra is in any way relevant to my current level of studies, I am interested in knowing the context behind the term.

Malcolm wrote:
The term in the Tibetan text is rang gi sngags, one's personal mantra, that's all, nothing more.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 1:40 AM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Okay, I haven’t read through this thread thoroughly; but is it written by Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö or not?

Malcolm wrote:
No. It is a random, anonymous prediction text, posing as Buddhavacana, that circulated, like a chain letter, in Eastern Tibet in the early twentieth century.

Tenma said:
Like the Middle Ages, did different Tibetan writers ever try attributing their works to famous writers (much as a random Medieval scholar might claim their text was written by Aristotle!) and was that a common practice?

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, many of Milarepa's songs are clearly forgeries. There are a number of fake Sakya Pandita texts, etc, and so on. And then, depending on your levelof incredulity, many termas...not to mention Mahāyāna sūtras in general, etc., many texts attributed to Nāgārjuna, etc.

Tenma said:
Either way, people are still going to believe in this anonymous text and its mantra, whether criticized or not!

Malcolm wrote:
People believe all kinds of things.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 3rd, 2022 at 1:29 AM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Okay, I haven’t read through this thread thoroughly; but is it written by Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö or not?

Malcolm wrote:
No. It is a random, anonymous prediction text, posing as Buddhavacana, that circulated, like a chain letter, in Eastern Tibet in the early twentieth century.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 2nd, 2022 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:
PeterC said:
Am I right in thinking that these all claimed to originate from a historical figure in this world (the Buddha, Vimalakirti, Srimaladevi, etc), and not a visionary revelation?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. The Vajrasamadhi Sūtra (Toh. 135) was is text critically analyzed by Robert Buswell in https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691654164/the-formation-of-chan-ideology-in-china-and-korea:
This book is a translation and study of the Vajrasamadhi-Sutra and an examination of its broad implications for the development of East Asian Buddhism. The Vajrasamadhi-Sutra was traditionally assumed to have been translated from Sanskrit, but some modern scholars, principally in Japan, have proposed that it is instead an indigenous Chinese composition. In contrast to both of these views, Robert Buswell maintains it was written in Korea around A.D. 685 by a Korean adept affiliated with the East Mountain school of the nascent Chinese Ch’an tradition. He thus considers it to be the oldest work of Korean Ch’an (or Son, which in Japan became known as the Zen school), and the second-oldest work of the sinitic Ch’an tradition as a whole. Buswell makes his case for the scripture’s dating, authorship, and provenance by placing the sutra in the context of Buddhist doctrinal writings and early Ch’an literature in China and Korea. This approach leads him to an extensive analysis of the origins of Ch’an ideology in both countries and of the principal trends in the sinicization of Buddhism. Buddhism has typically been studied in terms of independent national traditions, but Buswell maintains that the history of religion in China, Korea, and Japan should be treated as a whole.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 2nd, 2022 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: Prophecies of Dolpopa
Content:


Terma said:
"The etymology of ‘Dolpo’ is still unknown, though the word is found in several religious teachings of the Buddha...the word was uttered by the Buddha in 6th century BC while predicting the birth of the great 13th century scholar, Dolpopa Sherab Gyaltsen."

Malcolm wrote:
Highly unlikely.

Terma said:
Agreed. This is in general, a topic that one can chase their own tail over.

Malcolm wrote:
It's like the use of the Mañjuśrīmula Kalpa. Many people are predicted using the same passages...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 2nd, 2022 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Dan74 said:
Suppose we lived in the world, where being a selfish greedy arsehole was never acceptable. Where people would get viscerally ill at just imagining themselves behaving in such a way. How would capitalism work in such a world?

Well, I think there are capitalists like that. There are companies in capitalist economies that are majority worker-owned. There are companies where employees are treated like family. It is possible to run an ethical and successful business, at least sometimes.

Sure, capitalism encourages the ruthless pursuit of profit. Milton Friedman taught that the sole responsibility was to the shareholders. So we can blame the system and rightly so. But at the end of the day, it is human beings taking advantage of the system in an unscrupulous unprincipled way. Or gradually coming to do so more and more, as is often the case.

But they don't all do so.

To use a crude analogy, capitalism is bad in the same way that guns are bad - both are bound to be misused. Well, in case of capitalism, this misuse isn't even considered to be misuse. So it's kinda worse. But basically capitalism needs control in the same way that guns need control, because human beings are bound to ride roughshod over their kind. That's something we should look at in a deeper, more creative way, not instead of changing the system, but as well as, IMO.

Malcolm wrote:
What you are referring to is European-styled Capitalism, aka Coordinated Market Economies, which trade growth for stability. The US—and to a lesser extent—England, Canada, Australia and New Zealand have liberal market economies, which trade stability for growth.

But the issue with international capitalism is that the watchdogs of it, the WTO, etc., almost always side with corporate interests over national interests, under the present neoliberal principles which govern it, and to which signatories of the treaty that gave birth to the WTO are bound by law to uphold. In other words, neoliberalism favors liberal market economics on an international scale, as opposed to coordinated market economics, something which underdeveloped economies, like India, and formerly, China, actually insist upon. There are no unions in China, for example.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 2nd, 2022 at 10:25 PM
Title: Re: Prophecies of Dolpopa
Content:


Terma said:
"The etymology of ‘Dolpo’ is still unknown, though the word is found in several religious teachings of the Buddha...the word was uttered by the Buddha in 6th century BC while predicting the birth of the great 13th century scholar, Dolpopa Sherab Gyaltsen."

Malcolm wrote:
Highly unlikely.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 2nd, 2022 at 9:20 PM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:



PeterC said:
I don’t have the transmission for that.  What’s the Tibetan title, and what makes it a sutra?  Does it eg call itself མདོ ?

GrapeLover said:
I were just going by the format & content really, in that it starts:
I prostrate to all the Buddhas and the Bodhisattvas. Thus have I heard at one time, while the Buddha was staying at Bodhgaya…
and continues with a Mahayana sutra-style narrative of Shakyamuni. I’d thought that kind of general structure was what the OP meant by ‘presented in the form of a Sutra’. That one doesn’t call itself do, but there’s another terma of Tennyi Lingpa with a similar format called “Phag-pa Chog-chui Mun-pa Tham-ched Nam-par Sel-wa Zhe-ja-wa Theg-pa Chen-poi Do” (sorry, don’t have access to any more standardised transliteration)——shares a title with a longer ‘actual’ sutra

I don’t mean to make any kind of claim or implication with respect to the text in the OP though

PeterC said:
That’s a fair question - whether it starts with evam maya srutam etc.  I guess I was questioning whether anything which we accept as a sutra had been revealed in tibet as a pure vision.  If there is, I’m not aware of it.  That’s an easily falsifiable statement though.


Malcolm wrote:
There are a number of texts in the collection of dharani that likely began life as Chinese pseudographia before they were translated into Tibetan. Then there is the much disputed Shurangama Sutra; the Vajrasamadhi Sutra, a Korean composition translated into Tibetan, and so on. So there are a number of texts in the Kenjur of dubious origin.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 2nd, 2022 at 8:28 PM
Title: Re: 5 Elements
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The basic definition of space is found in Abhidharma. That’s the one we use in Buddhadharma.

Ode to Joy said:
Okay. So what is the meaning of this statement: "The Vaibhashika, an early school of Buddhist philosophy, hold the existence of akasha to be real"?  Is it just a case of Vaibhashika considering everything to be real, including space.  And is akasha as a "mahabhuta" the same thing as unconditioned void between universes or world systems described in chapter one of Kalacakra Tantra?

Malcolm wrote:
Space is not a mahabhuta, but it is a dhatu. Unconditioned space is considered “real” in the sense that it is a dharma, that’s all, along with the two cessations.

Kalacakra is an entirely different thing. It’s “particles of space” are compounded. But this idea has no relevance outside of the Kalacakra system,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 2nd, 2022 at 8:19 PM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
The following is all self-explanatory and as stated, it explicity stressed that this prophecy must be shared as widely as possible to all sentient beings at this time to avert the disasters predicted.

Malcolm wrote:
This text is the Tibetan equivalent of a chain letter.

Ode to Joy said:
Its teachings are self-explanatory, it is a profoundly powerful and important text, crucial at this very moment.  It clearly states the benefits for those who understand and have faith, as opposed to those who don't.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, like a chain letter. There is no point in distributing such texts. They make people unreasonably fearful & paranoid.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 2nd, 2022 at 7:41 AM
Title: Re: 5 Elements
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The basic definition of space is found in Abhidharma. That’s the one we use in Buddhadharma.


Ode to Joy said:
Since the five physical elements in Buddhism are usually given as earth, air, fire, water and space (akasha) sometimes called aether, what exactly is this last one, akasha/space/ether?  I

Malcolm wrote:
It is nonobstruction, according to Buddhist texts. There is also relative space, which is any kind of empty cavity.

Ode to Joy said:
Thank you for that answer.  I understand about the idea of nonobstruction but I am curious if there is any other function of this element besides simple nonobstruction and how does it exactly get differentiated from the relative space you mentioned?  How is "akasha-dhatu" different from "infinite space" or unconditioned space?  In a way, the two concepts sound so similar I'm not clear what is the distinction.  For instance, is there any sense in Buddhism that the element akasha is similar to this Hindu definition found in the Monier-Williams Sanskrit-English lexicon:  "the subtle and ethereal fluid (supposed to fill and pervade the universe and to be the peculiar vehicle of life and of sound) per Vedanta"?  Or is the Buddhist concept not like the Vedanta philosphy.  Another interesting point is that Sanskrit akasha apparently comes from the root kAsh meaning "to shine, to appear, to be visible, to be brilliant" whence other common words like prakAsha.  Which points to something beyond vacuity or mere nonobstruction - not that the BUddhist texts have to be concerned with the etymology of the word of course, Im not suggesting that. But that root syllable gives the impression that akasha could be a medium for light to propagate - and again Im not suggesting that this has anything to do with Buddhist teachings.  Actually, the reason I even ask is because in Phillipe Cornu's book Tibetan Astrology, he specifically (at least, his translator from French) calls akasha as "aether", rather than "space".  In English, "aether" has a special meaning, quite different from "space" and I am curious as to whether Mr. Cornu had a particular reason for using this term.

And what do we make of this statement on the Wikipedia page of Akasha in the Buddhism section: "The Vaibhashika, an early school of Buddhist philosophy, hold the existence of akasha to be real"?  What does it mean to say that "akasha is real" and what would it mean to claim it is not real?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 2nd, 2022 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Nemo said:
. A first step would be the separation of capital and the state.

Malcolm wrote:
Ummmm….that is modern day neoliberalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 1st, 2022 at 10:58 PM
Title: Re: Being on the high bhumis without knowing?
Content:


alx said:
Does anybody know when the Sambhogakaya becomes visible - which Bhumi please?  Thnx Guys Alx

Malcolm wrote:
Eighth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 1st, 2022 at 9:46 PM
Title: Re: Deepen Your Daily Practice with Khenpo Samdup Rinpoche (many transmissions from Drikung Kagyu Practice Book)
Content:
chokyi lodro said:
I wonder, would this be suitable for someone like me?

I have taken Refuge (from a lovely karma kagyu lama) some years ago, although circumstances including coronavirus have prevented me from deepening that connection. I'm a bit of a lamrim aficionado, but that's just because I find it easy to understand. I've never received any transmissions; I just practice analytical meditation. Any thoughts would be welcome.

Malcolm wrote:
One should not promiscuously take lungs. One should know why one is receiving a lung for this and that practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 1st, 2022 at 9:42 PM
Title: Re: ChNN and his awakening
Content:
jmlee369 said:
Even in The Life and Times of Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö: The Great Biography, you can see how students of Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodro made various comments of how they did not feel devotion or faith to this or that lama, which was fine as they had no student-teacher relationship with those lamas.

Malcolm wrote:
It's fine even if they did have a teacher student relationship. Faith is not something one can or should contrive. HHDL has discussed this at length. All this insistence on mandatory pure vision just turns people into neurotic messes and cult followers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 1st, 2022 at 9:39 PM
Title: Re: ChNN and his awakening
Content:
Nalanda said:
ChNN is an awakened person - Malcolm

Source: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=66939#p66939
Does this mean he was a Bodhisattva....?

Malcolm wrote:
It means he was an awakened person, a bodhisattva on the stages.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 1st, 2022 at 9:35 PM
Title: Re: Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö’s Prophecy of Things to Come?
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
The following is all self-explanatory and as stated, it explicity stressed that this prophecy must be shared as widely as possible to all sentient beings at this time to avert the disasters predicted.

Malcolm wrote:
This text is the Tibetan equivalent of a chain letter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 1st, 2022 at 9:29 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:


KristenM said:
I’m late to replying...maybe it was merely relaxing the lending standards, but it was also feeding predatory lending practices, going totally unchecked and allowing people to get way over their heads in debt. The same goes for educational loans. You can provide people with better opportunities to make sensible investments without allowing people to become victims of financial abuse. You’re more an expert than I am in this stuff, though.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, for example, Wells Fargo was forcing its loan associates to given loans to basically anyone who has a pulse.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 1st, 2022 at 3:55 AM
Title: Re: How do I know I have enough bodhichitta?
Content:
jewel123 said:
Hello! How can I determine that my Bodhichitta is sufficient? How to measure it?
What would be the way to understand if I even have it?
Thank you so much!

Malcolm wrote:
If you wish to become a buddha for the benefit of all sentient beings, you have enough bodhicitta.

jewel123 said:
Thank you very much. That wish is sufficient?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 1st, 2022 at 3:32 AM
Title: Re: 5 Elements
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
Since the five physical elements in Buddhism are usually given as earth, air, fire, water and space (akasha) sometimes called aether, what exactly is this last one, akasha/space/ether?  I

Malcolm wrote:
It is nonobstruction, according to Buddhist texts. There is also relative space, which is any kind of empty cavity.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 1st, 2022 at 2:25 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist Hell
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
According to certain narratives, didn't Śākyamuni begin his bodhisattva career as a hell torturer when he decided not to torture for a while?

Malcolm wrote:
No, he started his career as a hell-being who offered to take on the suffering of others in hell, according to certain narratives.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 1st, 2022 at 2:14 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist Hell
Content:
mechashivaz said:
The hell realms are understood to be real, as real as the experiences we are having now.

Malcolm wrote:
Only as mental projections.

mechashivaz said:
I've heard it said from the Mahayana (or overall Buddhist?) POV the demons doing the torturing in these realms are mind made being, meaning, they only exist as an aspect of "ourselves", therefore there are no demons in a perpetual negative karma feedback loop. However, I'm unable to find sources for this; if any one knows where this is sourced I'd greatly appreciate the info!

Malcolm wrote:
Vasubandhu, 20 verses.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 31st, 2021 at 2:30 AM
Title: Re: NASA Is Hiring Religious Leaders To Prepare For Encounter With Aliens ?
Content:
Sādhaka said:
If Mahayana cosmology is traditionally flat Earth, then how exactly does billions of world-systems work here?

Malcolm wrote:
Worlds have kinds of different shapes in Mahayana cosmology.

Johnny Dangerous said:
What texts cover these?

Malcolm wrote:
Avatamska


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 31st, 2021 at 2:09 AM
Title: Re: Where did the Buddha go after death? Where is the Buddha now? Where do Buddhas go after death?
Content:
Nalanda said:
Hey friend, is dharmakaya the same as Dharmadhatu? https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=322592#p322592

Malcolm wrote:
No. The dharmadhātu (object) is the emptiness that pervades all things, whether sentient or inert. The dharmakāya (subject) is the realization of that emptiness.

Sometimes you see the dharmadhātu equated with the nature of the mind, but this is an incomplete presentation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 31st, 2021 at 2:03 AM
Title: Re: Where did the Buddha go after death? Where is the Buddha now? Where do Buddhas go after death?
Content:
Nalanda said:
How is it explained in our tradition?

Would you use the trikaya to answer this question?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, you would. The mind of a buddha is the dharmakāya. The dharmakāya is free of birth and death. A nirmāṇakāya, which is what you are talking about, is an emanation of the sambhogakāya. When a nirmāṇakāya demonstrates the deed of passing into nirvana, it does not go anywhere, no more than a rainbow goes somewhere  in the sky when the causes and conditions for its appearance are no longer are present. Similarly, when a nirmāṇakāya manifests the deed of birth, it does not come from anywhere, not more than a rainbow comes from somewhere in the sky when the causes and conditions for its appearance are present.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 31st, 2021 at 1:45 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:


Dan74 said:
I am also skeptical of big narratives and they generally need a lot of qualifiers. But I do think the pandemic has taken a toll on young people's mental health, which already wasn't in great shape.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, being cooped up with anxious parents won't be good for anyone's mental health.


Dan74 said:
We don't have anywhere near the levels of poverty the US (and to some extent, the UK, thanks, Malcolm) have (the gaps between rich and poor is similar to Canada, 3 times less people in % living on less than $10 a day and sort of universal health care). We also have much safer cities and much lower rate of violent crime (homicide ~10 times less per capita, rape ~ 4 times less than the US).

Malcolm wrote:
Notice the correlation?

Dan74 said:
It's a cliche but the world really has become a global village, especially the Western world, so socio-culturally I think there are the same issues everywhere, in a somewhat different mix and intensity.

Malcolm wrote:
Different histories cause similar pressures to play out very differently, in people, and in nations. Without understanding the trauma of Indian Resettlement act of 1830, then the Civil War, then the abandonment of Reconstruction in 1877, and the westward migration of a large portion of the population that supported the Confederacy, and so on, one cannot possibly hope to understand what is happening in the US today. It is no accident that the Don't Tread On Me Flag (Gadsen Flag)—favored by pro-Trumpists and the Tea Party and designed by gentleman from South Carolina during the Revolutionary War—was seized as the symbol of the delinquent branch of the GOP.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2021 at 9:38 PM
Title: Re: Nichiren Shonin's teachings
Content:


Aemilius said:
Where does Vasubandhu say that? Elsewhere, in Mahayanasutra-alankara Commentary and in Vyakhyayukti "Principles of Exegesis", Vasubandhu defends the position that Mahayana sutras were taught by the Shakyamuni. By whom were they heard then?

I have read some passages of Vyakhyayukti that have been translated into english. I have heard that Vasubandhu discusses the origin of Mahayana in that work, but I haven't seen it with my own eyes.

Malcolm wrote:
Manjushri, Samantabhadra, etc.

Vasubandhu makes this argument in the Vyakhyayukti. There is a paper on it at academia.edu.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2021 at 9:33 PM
Title: Re: NASA Is Hiring Religious Leaders To Prepare For Encounter With Aliens ?
Content:
Sādhaka said:
If Mahayana cosmology is traditionally flat Earth, then how exactly does billions of world-systems work here?

Malcolm wrote:
Worlds have kinds of different shapes in Mahayana cosmology.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2021 at 9:25 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Dan74 said:
Malcolm, I could say the same about your commenting on Zen here on the forum. And also that your comments on Zen have at times been instructive.

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t know much about Chan or Zen, other than how it has been presented, pro and con in Tibetan sources. I’ve always been clear about that.

Dan74 said:
I think it's more that my take doesn't always align with yours that is the issue here.

Malcolm wrote:
You don’t live here, you have no stake nor voice in the outcomes of our elections, but more importantly, you don’t see us clearly and you don’t grasp our history and cultures. Your comment about Uncle Toms, for example, is a clear indicator of that.

Dan74 said:
I am not really allowed to say anything?

Malcolm wrote:
You can say whatever you like.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2021 at 10:10 AM
Title: Re: Where did the Buddha go after death? Where is the Buddha now? Where do Buddhas go after death?
Content:
Nalanda said:
Thanks Schrödinger’s Yidam. Looks like I'm going to have to go keyword search using Google to scour this room. The ones you shared are good start. Thanks.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s better to listen to what the Buddha said:
E ma ho! The secret of all perfect buddhas
Is that perfect buddhas do not arise.
Everything arises from nonarising,
And even arising never arose.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2021 at 9:12 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Dan74 said:
. On a personal level, I don't judge - I've been hard-working and I've been very slack, it's more that I am responsible for them, to some extent.

Malcolm wrote:
When you are teacher, you do have responsibilities, of course, and boundaries.

As I have told you before, I don’t know shit about Australia or Switzerland, or the USSR, and so I don’t comment on their cultures or mores. But you seem very keen to comment on what goes on the US, which is understandable, because we are Rome. But you don’t understand us, or our history, very well. Even Canadians, like Nemo, don’t really understand the US very well, and they live next door. You might read Heather Cox Richardson’s daily newsletter. Perhaps it will provide you some insight you lack at present.

.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2021 at 9:02 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:


Dan74 said:
I will take the judgy tone on board, Malcolm,

Malcolm wrote:
This, Dan, is illustrative as to why in America structure trumps agency:

The Bill for My Homelessness Was $54,000

Debt is a hidden burden for Americans experiencing homelessness.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/29/opinion/debt-homelessness.html?


It’s the difference between Marshall Mathers and his Cranbrook-educated “gangster” competitors in 8 Mile. Even so, Marshall Mathers, being white, is far less likely to be shot during a routine traffic stop then those black kids with prep school educations.

So when you talk to Americans, you should keep that in mind. Those of us who are not blind, observe that structure limits agents more than you apparently would like to admit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2021 at 7:01 AM
Title: Re: Nichiren Shonin's teachings
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
Speaking of the first Buddhist council, it is possible there was a universal council of Buddhists that determined one particular recension of the buddhavacana that is substantially "truer" than later sectarian recensions. The texts concerning it do not date from said council. To the authors of those texts mentioning it, it was long gone mythohistory.

Malcolm wrote:
Ananda did not recite these texts at the first council, for that, Vasubandhu criticizes him. The "I" in "Thus I heard this spoken at one time" of Mahāyāna sūtras is not Ananda.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2021 at 5:25 AM
Title: Re: NASA Is Hiring Religious Leaders To Prepare For Encounter With Aliens ?
Content:
Giovanni said:
If aliens exist..and mathematics suggest that it is likely, then they are subject to the Three Signs OF Being.
That’s all Dharma students NEED to know. The rest is understandable curiosity.

Aemilius said:
That sounds kind of logical, but in practice it is not like that. It is more like Europeans going to South and North America or in Africa and Australia. Europeans had new conceptual constructions and their own laws and new and amazing weapons with them, and they wanted their gold and other minerals, plus workers for their plantations, and other things...
For example, we hear in some ufo-reports that slavery exists in the stars,...   Its methods maybe different and quite modern, but it is still slavery.

Tenma said:
So what are you going to do if aliens exist and we encounter them?

Malcolm wrote:
See what kind of booze they like.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2021 at 12:59 AM
Title: Re: Nichiren Shonin's teachings
Content:


Aemilius said:
Is the final and complete teaching in human or some being's  consciousness or is it a pile of paper?

Malcolm wrote:
There are two kinds of dharma: scripture and realization. Pretty sure QQ is referring the the last.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 30th, 2021 at 12:55 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Queequeg said:
it wasn't just Lehman Bros. playing with junk bonds.

Malcolm wrote:
It was mostly that. Has the insurance companies not allowed investment firms to buy insurance on bad debts mixed with good debts (CDO, collateralized debt obligations), AIG, for example, would not have needed a bail out. In fact, every firm that needed a bail out, got one.

https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b150qdkrd30ggk/the-fall-of-aig-the-untold-story

Queequeg said:
As of December 31, 2007, AIGFP had a portfolio of credit default swaps totaling $527 billion, of which $78 billion was written on multisector CDOs, most of which had some exposure to subprime mortgages. Indeed, it has become widely accepted that without ­Cassano and AIGFP around to insure the risk that Wall Street was taking in underwriting these increasingly squirrelly assets, the debt bubble might have run out of air far before it did in 2007. In its defense, which shows up, among other places, in an August 2009 court filing by law firm Weil, Gotshal & Manges in a shareholder lawsuit, AIG argues that it wrote credit default swaps on only the supersenior portion of the multisector CDOs — that is, those payments made first. Incredibly, AIGFP believed it had little real exposure “because the supersenior tranche has priority of payment ahead of even the AAA tranches, [and so] is regarded as having a better-than-AAA rating.”

Malcolm wrote:
And this also played a part:
While that last bit of legal spin is certainly debatable, what soon became crystal clear — and a major problem for AIG — was that as the value of the toxic securities it had insured before 2006 fell, AIG’s counterparties ratcheted up their demands for collateral. At the forefront of these increasingly strident collateral demands was none other than Goldman Sachs Group. Unlike every other Wall Street firm, in 2006, Goldman became nervous about the growing risks its traders perceived in the free-for-all that the market for mortgage-related securities had become. The traders’ concerns eventually bubbled up to the 30th floor of 85 Broad Street, where Goldman’s top executives had their offices, and in December 2006 the firm decided to “get closer to home,” in the words of CFO David Viniar. The firm started to make huge bets that the mortgage market would fall by shorting individual mortgage-backed securities and the newly created ABX index, which was a basket of mortgage-related securities, and by creating synthetic CDOs and selling the risk related to them to the likes of AIG.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2021 at 11:02 PM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:


oldbob said:
Many old practitioners go elsewhere.

Malcolm wrote:
It's the name of the game.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2021 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
KristenM said:
We should have been giving billions to encourage higher education and home ownership, rather than keeping people in situations where getting a Section 8 voucher apartment and staying on welfare makes more financial sense than actually getting a job because jobs pay less than the monthly government check and you don’t have child care or a supportive plan to move up from your crappy job.

Queequeg said:
Homeownership - the standards for qualifying for a loan were relaxed by the Clinton and Bush Jr. administrations in order to increase home ownership. It led to the 2008 crash.

Malcolm wrote:
Thats the conservative story. The real reason the crash happened is that investment firms were taking out insurance on bad debt.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2021 at 10:51 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:


Dan74 said:
What you describe as your experience is probably less common than most, but no less valid. You are fortunate to have found your way, many people never do. Our world, with its bewildering array of choices sometimes leads to folks such as yourself doing great things with their lives and many others losing themselves in addiction and mental illness.

Malcolm wrote:
That's karma for you.


Dan74 said:
Apart from the ~150 young people I teach every week, I have three kids at home. I worry about them, wonder how well they are navigating the challenges this world throws their way and how well (or poorly) our culture is guiding them. This ultimately is my interest. Here, in the context of the job market, but even earlier, their studies, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, that's one reason I avoided having children. I did not want the responsibility, nor the choices it would force on me as a parent. My partner is a parent, and she has the same worries you do, though her kid is a successful professional, too driven, if anything.


Dan74 said:
And for myself, having twice moved countries and continents, having something of a foot in three cultures, I guess I have a strange life experience and a stranger outlook that most people will are not likely to relate to, or find any value in.

Malcolm wrote:
Mostly it is the judgy tone I don't relate to. Why? I would have been one of those kids in your school about whom you would have thrown up your hands in exasperation, shaking your head about wasted talent, etc., and eventually you would have just addressed my recalcitrance to some moral flaw.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2021 at 9:48 PM
Title: Re: 84000: The Sūtra on Transmigration Through Existences (Bhava­saṅkrānti­sūtra) & Some Questions
Content:
Leo Rivers said:
It is my understanding that this text represents a unique view that the last moment of consciousness at death is IMMEDIATELY followed by the first moment of the subsequent mindstream. No afterlife. No bardos. No just biding one's time.

Malcolm wrote:
It does not necessarily follow that this sūtra is rejecting the antarabhāva.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2021 at 9:16 PM
Title: Re: NASA Is Hiring Religious Leaders To Prepare For Encounter With Aliens ?
Content:


Aemilius said:
The theologians are attempting to assess how major religions would react to news of alien life being found.

…

The theme of theology and ufology has gained some momentum in the ufo-platforms very recently, when do  Dharma folks wake up to this?

Malcolm wrote:
We already know there is intelligent life in countless planetary systems.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2021 at 9:08 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is nothing new here Dan. This just generational bitching, “kids these days.” Some kids find their direction in life early; some a bit later; some, never. And it’s the same in Japan and China.

For example, I was utterly bored in school. I had taught myself to read when I was a toddler. I generally finished reading my schoolbooks within the first month of school, and was often punished for reading other books in class. I was pretty much done with school by age 14, though between 15-17, I was sent to an alternative private school, from which I was expelled. I met Buddhism there, however. I drifted along for another ten years, working this shit job and that, until I attended Harvard extension, but never matriculated. I got a job in a bookstore, became a Buddhist, and drifted along into a three year retreat. After I got out, I drifted into a bad marriage, drifted out of that, and drifted back to Western Massachusetts about twenty years ago, where I had “grown up.” I’ve found a nice pool in the stream of my life, and the  current so far hasn’t pushed me out. I am a well—published translator, but I didn’t plan any of it. I didn’t “work” for it, or have any sense of purpose or mission. I still don’t, other than seeing a certain body of literature translated into English. So I don’t buy, for one minute, much of what you are trying to sell. It doesn’t fit my experience or observations.

One other thing: Black people get to use the Uncle Tom metaphor, you and I don’t. It’s racist to do so. And your use of it is incorrect:
The first has to do with an erroneous interpretation of the novel. The original Uncle Tom is, well, no Uncle Tom. Like millions of his real-life counterparts at the time, Tom is enslaved. He also has courage, dignity and a strong sense of what is right. When ordered by his cruel master, Simon Legree, to whip another slave, Tom refuses; he later encourages two other slaves to escape, and when Legree confronts him, asking where they have gone, Tom refuses to reveal their whereabouts, a decision that costs him his life. Tom heartily (but not blindly) embraces Christianity, the religion of his white oppressors; but then so do most of the black Americans I know.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/dear-white-people-stop-using-the-term-uncle-tom/2018/11/15/8a68e9c0-e84e-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2021 at 11:35 AM
Title: Re: How do I know I have enough bodhichitta?
Content:
jewel123 said:
Hello! How can I determine that my Bodhichitta is sufficient? How to measure it?
What would be the way to understand if I even have it?
Thank you so much!

Malcolm wrote:
If you wish to become a buddha for the benefit of all sentient beings, you have enough bodhicitta.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2021 at 9:29 AM
Title: Re: Upcoming Translations
Content:
ManiThePainter said:
This is indeed very exciting.

I’ve been reading the introduction and Coghlan mentions that he has used three of Tsongkhapa’s works as references. I wonder if this will have had any influence on the way the text is interpreted in English.

Malcolm wrote:
I did a preliminary translation of the first 7 chapters, years ago, it looks fine, other than his decision to merge dharmata and tathata into a single term.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2021 at 3:28 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:


Aloke said:
I think you meant that one Dakini practice would be enough.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.

As far as Naro Khacho goes, one has to receive this according to how it is given in Sakya and Geluk.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 29th, 2021 at 1:07 AM
Title: Re: Did I make a mistake taking empowerment?
Content:
James84 said:
A well known Tibetan Lama came to give a talk at a local temple so I decided to go give him a listen and enjoyed his talk. Many new people to Buddhism were at the talk and while there they handed out a schedule for upcoming empowerments of Vajrasattva and Medicine Buddha and told everyone they were welcome. After talking with the monks they suggested I come and see the ceremony. I have studied some Tibetan Buddhism and have an interest in it, but also enjoy zen. I decided I would go although now I am having some doubts. I'm not sure if I am doing the practice right and I'm not sure if I took any vows? He mentioned briefly that the Samaya was to recite the mantra each day and if we can do the practice that's even better. Did I take more vows then this without knowing? Am I also stuck practicing Vajrayana now? Or am I able to focus on Zen and leave Vajrayana behind if I decide its a better fit for me? Is this common too? I thought Vajrayana was more secretive although people who mentioned they were very new to Buddhism were suggested to come to the empowerment so I'm feeling lost.

Malcolm wrote:
You are not stuck with anything.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 at 11:46 PM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:
avatamsaka3 said:
In contrast, Mahayana is defined by the view that all dharmas are empty from the beginning precluding grasping altogether.
There are teachings on emptiness in the Pali.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no teaching in this canon on profound emptiness.


avatamsaka3 said:
There are teachings on ultimate realities in the Abhidhamma literature in the Pali, and these are understood to be empty of what is habitually imputed to them.

Malcolm wrote:
This level of teaching is realist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:
Aloke said:
Malcolm, I asked if you please would elaborate a little bit about this because it may seem that having Mandarava would allow someone to practice Naro Kachod (as it is in Sakya and Gelug).

Malcolm wrote:
That's not what I meant. I meant that they are both dakini practices.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 at 10:08 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
KristenM said:
But, I don’t buy the tropes of calling the American kids lazy and entitled, and alternatively glorifying the immigrant kids as more hard-working and appreciative of the so-called “American dream.”

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t buy it either. It’s still an issue comparative advantage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 at 9:32 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:


oldbob said:
That said, ChNN allowed as valid, Lungs (many, many times) and Worldwide Transmissions many many times -  on the web that were sometimes delayed by 10+ minutes.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s a dumb argument Bob, since everyone was participating at the same time even if there was buffering.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 at 7:46 AM
Title: Re: What holds consciousness? (pretas, devas, asuras)
Content:
Nalanda said:
But if the being has no "form" then what body is there? Figurative body?

Malcolm wrote:
It’s “held” by the faculty of life force.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:
oldbob said:
not to [be] open to innovations, what would be acceptable ways of given/receiving Transmissions according to the teachings?"

Malcolm wrote:
There are certain "innovations" that will destroy Vajrayāna teachings. So, it is necessary to exercise caution and apply scripture and reasoning to these issues. Things like receiving lungs and empowerments from recordings are unacceptable innovations. It's not really that hard to understand.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 at 2:40 AM
Title: Re: Avalokiteśvara as the Jewel of Windhorse
Content:
Chenda said:
"Jewel of Windhorse".

Malcolm wrote:
This is interpolated by the translator, presumably on the basis of some comment. You should write him and ask .


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 at 2:36 AM
Title: Re: What holds consciousness? (pretas, devas, asuras)
Content:
Nalanda said:
In other realms without any forms or brain to hold consciousness, what holds it for pretas, devas and asuras?

What do Buddhist texts say about this?

Malcolm wrote:
Consciousness located in the center of the body, no matter what kind of body you have, according to Buddhist texts.

Aemilius said:
Which text says it? Is it mentioned in a Sutra or an Abdhidharma text?

Malcolm wrote:
Many Vajrayāna texts, the Medicine Tantra, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 28th, 2021 at 1:03 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Queequeg said:
More seriously - Its my right as an American to not want to work like an immigrant. Totally fine with immigrants doing the shit jobs we don't want to do.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, they do work we are physically incapable of doing ourselves. If they didn't, food prices would be skyhigh:

In 1960, half of all the native-born men in the U.S. labor force were high school dropouts eager to take unskilled outdoor jobs in agriculture and construction. Today, fewer than 10 percent of the native-born men in the work force lack high school diplomas. But the economy still generates plenty of unskilled jobs, and most unskilled immigrants don't displace American workers. They fill niches — not just farmhand, but also chambermaid, busboy and others — that would otherwise go empty. And they support more skilled, more desirable jobs — foremen, accountants, waiters, chefs and more — at the businesses where they work and others in the surrounding community.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/08/17/could-farms-survive-without-illegal-labor/without-immigrant-labor-the-economy-would-crumble

Some Americans referred for jobs at Fortin's nursery couldn't do the grueling work.

"A few years ago when domestic workers were referred here, we saw absentee problems, and we had people asking for time off after they had just started," he said. "Some were actually planting the plants upside down."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/despite-economy-americans-dont-want-farm-work/

All we’ve done is work and work to make a better life for our children, we haven’t seen anything, we haven’t been anywhere. Even if I’m sick or injured, there’s no help, I can’t even afford a dentist. We feed this country, I’ve never seen a f**king gringo in the fields, but they don’t value what we do.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/13/meet-the-workers-who-put-food-on-americas-tables-but-cant-afford-groceries


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood In This Life
Content:
Archie2009 said:
So I assume Rinpoche will be doing the lungs from Finland. This sounds too good to pass on.


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, he will, from 4:00 pm -- 9:00 pm, EET March 18, 19, 20, 21st.

A registration link will be posted here as well as on his facebook page.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Math is a language, just like any other construct of symbols. We use math to decsribe all kinds of things.

Zhen Li said:
It's purely quantitative, it is unlike almost all other constructs of symbols. It cannot describe anything without the aid of other words.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't think we are talking about the same math, you seem to talking about 2 + 2 = 4; there are 26 varieties of math.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
So again: where is the evidence that people are leaving their jobs en masse because they're too lazy to work?

Malcolm wrote:
[sarcasm]Obviously, we have not done enough to eradicate welfare queens from the face of the earth.[/sarcasm]

Genjo Conan said:
There was an excellent book a couple years back about Reagan's prototypical welfare queen.  More broadly it was about how singular examples get blown up to create broad stereotypes.

https://www.littlebrown.com/titles/josh-levin/the-queen/9780316513272/

Malcolm wrote:
It's obvious, but it bears repeating, most of these stereotypes are driven by racism, and many of the people repeating them are engaging in racism unconsciously.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 10:46 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Unknown said:
Maznevski says there are likely two broad categories of people participating in the Great Resignation: “One is people who are professionals, who are making a choice between ‘good’ and ‘better’. The other category is people who are making a choice between something that is really terrible, unhealthy and toxic, and survival. Those are two very different dynamics.”...


In other words, we may only be seeing the Great Resignation through the eyes of those who have the privilege to quit, like top executives or financially secure workers. But the reality is that it’s hard to parse from the existing data which workers are quitting more and why, which can distort what’s really happening, and might encourage people to boldly quit and think everything will work out for them.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20211028-what-were-getting-wrong-about-the-great-resignation


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 10:37 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
So again: where is the evidence that people are leaving their jobs en masse because they're too lazy to work?

Malcolm wrote:
[sarcasm]Obviously, we have not done enough to eradicate welfare queens from the face of the earth.[/sarcasm]

The "dignity of hard work" is a meme that should go in the dumpster right alongside the Christian "dignity of poverty."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 10:32 PM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
ManiThePainter said:
Tibetan medicine is also not a static and unchanging entity. Promoting medical conservatism accomplishes nothing good

I believe I read a post by Malcolm once that Tibetan medicine has drawn upon influences from Galen and Ayurvedic medicine (and perhaps even Chinese?) as well as the indigenous medicines of Tibet. This makes perfect sense when we consider that medicine is primarily results-based and this has been a factor in all medical traditions (Western medicine drawing upon Islamic medicine etc.).

Point is, it would not be constructive for Tibetan medicine to reject anything it can learn from Western medicine. This should also not be taken to mean that Tibetan medicine is then obsolete. They are not mutually exclusive.

Malcolm wrote:
Tibetan Medicine is indeed derived from the medical traditions of the Byzantine Empire, China, and primarily, from Ayurveda, combined with indigenous herbal and healing traditions. It is also the case, as you point out, that Tibetan Medicine and Allopathic Medicine are not mutually exclusive. Tibetan Medicine, like Ayurveda, is excels in the treatment of chronic diseases, whereas Allopathic Medicine is much better equipped to deal with acute care, such as car accidents, cancer, and other types of conditions that require immediate intervention.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 10:27 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Shinjin said:
Dan articulated the issue well but nobody wants to listen. It's ok, no problem.

Malcolm wrote:
We listened, but some of us just don't agree with his assessment, or that his concerns are particular well-founded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 10:22 PM
Title: Re: What holds consciousness? (pretas, devas, asuras)
Content:
Nalanda said:
In other realms without any forms or brain to hold consciousness, what holds it for pretas, devas and asuras?

What do Buddhist texts say about this?

Malcolm wrote:
Consciousness located in the center of the body, no matter what kind of body you have, according to Buddhist texts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 9:05 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
That is not an explanation, that is a quantitative prediction. Your claim was that math has an explanatory function. You cannot explain without descriptive words, it's just not possible.

Malcolm wrote:
Math is a language, just like any other construct of symbols. We use math to decsribe all kinds of things.


Zhen Li said:
Your claim is that experimentation is direct perception.

Malcolm wrote:
Experimentation is used to confirm inferences with direct perception.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 9:01 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood In This Life
Content:
Toenail said:
Can you vouch for Tulku Dakpa? How should someone planning to receive this familiarize him or herself with this lama?

Malcolm wrote:
Thus lung by Tulku Dakpa is being given at my request. Incidentally, all donations are going to go to a project to build a stupa at his center in Finland.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 7:53 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:


Shinjin said:
Not every single person quitting is doing it out of pure misery.

Malcolm wrote:
Hanging light fixtures for a living sounds like pure misery to me.

Shinjin said:
Worker in question quit because of laziness and entitlement, not because he wasn't being payed a living wage or treated poorly by managers and coworkers. All the best to him in his future endeavors.

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe he just didn’t like the job. I wouldn’t. And the last thing I am is “lazy.” Of course, I don’t know the guy, but you were using him as some of exemplar, generalizing from a particular.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 7:49 AM
Title: Re: What calendar to buy for 2022?
Content:
Toenail said:
I believe there is none from Dzogchen community for 2022.

Malcolm wrote:
There will be.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 6:56 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:
pemachophel said:
Loppon-la, What is the Tibetan that you are equating with the English "blind faith"?

Malcolm wrote:
The term "blind faith" or "blind devotion" does not occur in Tibetan. But we can infer by means of analogy that it is not acceptable to the Buddha. Aryadeva quotes the Buddha in the Jñānasārasamuccaya:

Just as gold is burned, cut, and filed, 
bhikṣus or scholars
thoroughly investigate and accept my words,
but not because of respect.

This has direct bearing on accepting the claims of this or that person about the effectiveness or validity of various kinds of assertions about online transmissions.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I didn't see a lot of assertions either way in this thread, only advice for people to generally listen to their teachers and engage with the question that way.

Malcolm wrote:
Not on this thread, but generally speaking, nothing in Buddhadharma should be accepted purely on faith just because someone said “it is so.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 5:16 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:
pemachophel said:
Loppon-la, What is the Tibetan that you are equating with the English "blind faith"?

Malcolm wrote:
The term "blind faith" or "blind devotion" does not occur in Tibetan. But we can infer by means of analogy that it is not acceptable to the Buddha. Aryadeva quotes the Buddha in the Jñānasārasamuccaya:

Just as gold is burned, cut, and filed, 
bhikṣus or scholars
thoroughly investigate and accept my words,
but not because of respect.

This has direct bearing on accepting the claims of this or that person about the effectiveness or validity of various kinds of assertions about online transmissions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:



Tenma said:
In a similar vein, wouldn't the dog tooth story be used to explain other such practices as a lama circumambulating a dog, Lama Zopa Rinpoche teaching about visualizing a stupa and circumambulating that instead, bowing down to a visualized Tathagata, regarding a pot as more precious than other disciples' offerings, Drukpa Kunley's poems regarding bowing down to a maiden's feet (amongst other things like swear words as mantras), and so forth?

Malcolm wrote:
All I know is what Āryadeva says—realization comes from view.

Tenma said:
So how come the dog tooth story is BS if there's Aryadeva's statement?

Malcolm wrote:
Blind faith has no view because it is blind.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 3:26 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
So from everything I can tell, people are working.  I see no evidence for some Great Staycation, or a systemic malaise.  I think, rather, that people prefer good jobs to lousy jobs, and will leave lousy jobs for better jobs if they have the choice.

Malcolm wrote:
It is mostly small business owners who are bitching, because people are bailing on their shitty jobs for better jobs.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Yep. I used to work for a guy like this. It was a non-profit even, lol.

He used to lament how only I would work for him based on the good working conditions (they really weren't, there were some good things but I was -very- overworked), and that others were "lazy and just wanted a good benefits package" - he had -no- benefits package and as the business was three people he didn't have to. No shit, he really said something like that. People's insane attitudes towards there jobs here are mindblowing.

I kind of relish seeing all the upset and surprise from shit employers now that they can't fill their awful jobs as easily. Hmm, I wonder what would change that.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, the bullshit, "Just work harder and you will get ahead..." carrot and stick promise of American Capitalism, as if the shitty job they are paying you for far less than a living wage is a f**king favor and you are lucky to have it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 3:23 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Waxing philosophical about this is just silly and bougie, to be honest...

Malcolm wrote:
Yup:

YEO, STÉPHEN. “ON THE USES OF ‘APATHY.’” European Journal of Sociology / Archives Européennes de Sociologie / Europäisches Archiv Für Soziologie 15, no. 2 (1974): 279–311. http://www.jstor.org/stable/23998532.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Seems interesting. I just think it's kind of pointless focusing on people's inner attitudes about work when  there are really obvious reasons that lots of people in the US hate their jobs. It just doesn't seem like much of a mystery to me.

I think a lot of people outside the US also don't realize that there is actually ton of poverty here, comparable in places to developing nations, and that a ton of people live hand to mouth, and have none of the social safety net that exists in many European countries.

Malcolm wrote:
The gist of the article is that there is a long-standing, self-serving, as well as self-contradictory capitalist narrative about apathy. On the one hand the wealthy are apathetic, because they are too wealthy (this targets the aristocrats); the poor are apathetic because, well, they are poor (targets the workers); on the other hand, if people are not politically apathetic, this is troublesome, so political apathy on the part of the poor is encouraged, while being simultaneously derided. And all of this is couched in moral judgement. And yes, it is a very bougie attitude...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 3:17 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
I'm not sure I understand your logic.  Why should people stay in jobs that make them miserable simply because there are other people who would be willing to take those jobs?  I rather think the converse is the tragedy: people forced to stay in jobs they hate because they have no choice.

Edit: in case it wasn't clear, this was a response to the op, not Malcolm

Shinjin said:
Not every single person quitting is doing it out of pure misery.

Malcolm wrote:
Hanging light fixtures for a living sounds like pure misery to me.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 2:41 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Waxing philosophical about this is just silly and bougie, to be honest...

Malcolm wrote:
Yup:

YEO, STÉPHEN. “ON THE USES OF ‘APATHY.’” European Journal of Sociology / Archives Européennes de Sociologie / Europäisches Archiv Für Soziologie 15, no. 2 (1974): 279–311. http://www.jstor.org/stable/23998532.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 2:38 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:



Lingpupa said:
On a personal note, I would feel uncomfortable being quite so dismissive of either the story or of those you call "rubes", even if they might be less educated than I am.

There would not, of course, be many takers for a literalistic understanding of the story. But who does that? Tibetan "rubes"? I wouldn't be so sure. But if we ask, as I suspect most people would, what this amusing folk tale is telling us, it seems clear that it is making a perfectly valid point about the importance of confidence.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a fairytale, used to excuse blind faith.

Tenma said:
In a similar vein, wouldn't the dog tooth story be used to explain other such practices as a lama circumambulating a dog, Lama Zopa Rinpoche teaching about visualizing a stupa and circumambulating that instead, bowing down to a visualized Tathagata, regarding a pot as more precious than other disciples' offerings, Drukpa Kunley's poems regarding bowing down to a maiden's feet (amongst other things like swear words as mantras), and so forth?

Malcolm wrote:
All I know is what Āryadeva says—realization comes from view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 2:13 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:
oldbob said:
Merry Christmas to all,

This is not a story showing the failure / limits of blind faith, but instead, a story of how blind faith can lead to enlightenment

Malcolm wrote:
It can't. Not ever. That's why it is a bullshit story.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 2:07 AM
Title: Re: Extinction as a result of global warming
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
No, it just makes me more sensible.

Dharmasherab said:
No. That's just being arrogant and conceited.

Malcolm wrote:
All views are not equal, if they were, it wouldn't matter if one was a Buddhist or a Christian as far as liberation goes. This also applies to politics, where some views, the views of liberals who are committed to democracy, are better than the views of others, such as conservatives, who are not committed to democracy and never have been.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 2:04 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Dan74 said:
I don't think there is an equivalent anywhere else in the developed world.

Malcolm wrote:
You didn't look to hard, obviously:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/20/working-homeless-britain-economy-minimum-wage-zero-hours

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/15/25pc-households-at-risk-of-homelessness-are-in-work

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-how-the-pandemic-has-led-to-a-rise-in-the-working-homeless-12362730

https://www.bigissue.com/news/housing/how-many-people-are-homeless-in-the-uk-and-what-can-you-do-about-it/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 1:59 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
So from everything I can tell, people are working.  I see no evidence for some Great Staycation, or a systemic malaise.  I think, rather, that people prefer good jobs to lousy jobs, and will leave lousy jobs for better jobs if they have the choice.

Malcolm wrote:
It is mostly small business owners who are bitching, because people are bailing on their shitty jobs for better jobs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 1:54 AM
Title: Re: Ordained Life as a Monastic
Content:


Dharmasherab said:
1. On the use of money - Do Gelongs use money the same way as Getshuls?

Malcolm wrote:
Tibetan monks are all Mahāyānas, therefore, they observe no restrictions over the handling of money.

Dharmasherab said:
2. Is it compulsory to do an occupation whiles being a monastic? Or if not is this what usually happens in the West as part of the culture among those who are ordained in Tibetan Buddhism in the West?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, all Tibetan monastics in monasteries have some kind of job, cooking, cleaning, etc. Also, every single monastic I know in the West worked some kind of job if they wanted to eat. Thus, most people who ordain, and then try to live in the West, give back their ordination.

Dharmasherab said:
3. Travelling - is it required to travel to different monasteries on a frequent basis (which costs money)?

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, no.

Dharmasherab said:
Apart from these questions please feel free to give information which you think may help me. I am particularly interested in the aspects which people may find typically unusual for an ordained life including the idiosyncrasies.

Malcolm wrote:
Tibetan monks are not very careful about Vinaya. If you want to understand this, you should read Sakya Pandita's A Clear Differentiation of the Three Codes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 1:41 AM
Title: Re: Extinction as a result of global warming
Content:
Dharmasherab said:
Just because I dont share your political views it doesnt make you more holier.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it just makes me more sensible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 1:12 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:



Lingpupa said:
I would not be in a position of insight into the motives of the tellers.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s how it is presently employed.

Lingpupa said:
Like I said - I don't have that breadth of insight.

Malcolm wrote:
Doesn't take insight, it just takes listening.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 27th, 2021 at 1:09 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Dan74 said:
I wondered about how many of the people who left their positions did so not because of better prospects elsewhere, but because it was too much effort.

Malcolm wrote:
You sound like this:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-bidens-economic-policy

Dan74 said:
But either way, here's the core point. The incentives that we've constructed in this country over a long period of time, to be fair, but accelerating recently have a very specific effect. Those policies reward people who don't want a job and they punish people who do want a job. What they do is they degrade work. They strip it of its inherent meaning. And that's a problem in a country that is running out of things that have inherent meaning. They're telling you that your religion means nothing. Your patriotism means nothing. Your family means nothing. Now they're telling you your work means nothing? What does mean anything? And how long can a society continue that doesn't have meaning and that doesn't revere work?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 11:28 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Konchog Thogme Jampa said:
I see I researched this years ago they’ve really dumbed down the mainstream education system for quite a few hundred years. They used to teach the Trivium which I practiced a bit also a few years ago but it made people think for themselves too much literally became autonomous. So they changed the model.

Malcolm wrote:
Theoretically, American Democracy was designed with idea that an educated populace would make good decisions in aggregate. But conservatives in the US have always sought to undermine education to keep themselves in power. First, conservative Democrats in the old South, and later, the Republican Party, when the Dixiecrats fled to the GOP over civil rights and abortion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 11:09 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:


Queequeg said:
Working for the sake of working is brain damage, dudes.

Konchog Thogme Jampa said:
Also there are so many areas where you can be a self-taught entrepreneur I taught myself code and had a 9 year career out of it. You can do the same with Graphic Design so many areas apply to that.

Malcolm wrote:
That requires computer literacy, in which, believe it or not, the US has a deficit because of the structural ways the poorest people in this country also have the least access to technology. It is so glaring, it is hard to believe it is not by design.

You also have to take into consideration that 130 million Americans, between the ages of 14 and 65, barely read at a sixth grade level. That is 40% of the US population.

Konchog Thogme Jampa said:
Working a slave job like in an Amazon Warehouse to make someone else rich isn’t the only way. Put together a plan and execute. There are even University courses being sold on an online platform these days.

Malcolm wrote:
That depends on being functionally literate, and 40% of Americans are not, through no fault of their own. They've been failed by the public school system.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 10:48 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
Do you realize what its like here with benefits and vacations?

Malcolm wrote:
Dan has no idea about America, just like I have no idea about Switzerland, which is why I don’t comment on Swiss politics or social life. It’s outside my experience.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 10:27 PM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:


Dan74 said:
I've been poor, sleeping rough, couch surfing and living in a tent at a "white trash" trailer park at the outskirts of the city. Doing whatever jobs I could find. Abusive employers crushing any self-esteem I still clung on to. It's not really fun, no. As always, there are different sides to it. One could amp one's anger at it all and  go down the destructive path. One could tighten the belt and do the best one can. Or one can channel the anger somewhere constructive, unionise, advocate for those even less fortunate, and try to keep one's shit together.

Malcolm wrote:
The usual conservative argument, that you tiresomely repeat here, is that these issues boil down personal character, with all moral judgements that go along them, complete with a “I buckled my belt” that usually goes along with such sentiments.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 10:19 PM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It’s a fairytale, used to excuse blind faith.

Lingpupa said:
I would not be in a position of insight into the motives of the tellers.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s how it is presently employed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 9:02 PM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The dog’s tooth story is for gullible rubes.

Lingpupa said:
On a personal note, I would feel uncomfortable being quite so dismissive of either the story or of those you call "rubes", even if they might be less educated than I am.

There would not, of course, be many takers for a literalistic understanding of the story. But who does that? Tibetan "rubes"? I wouldn't be so sure. But if we ask, as I suspect most people would, what this amusing folk tale is telling us, it seems clear that it is making a perfectly valid point about the importance of confidence.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a fairytale, used to excuse blind faith.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 10:12 AM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
And when Tibetan doctors get cancer, like Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, and so on, they are first in line for allopathic treatments for it.

Sonam Wangchug said:
However, I know one tibetan doctor, the Ven paltul rinpoche who told me he has been very effective in treating breast cancer using Tibetan medicine, he gets his medicine fresh from Tibet, and not from Men-tsee-khang in dharamsala.  He said though that the Tibetan medicine is effective if they had not yet gotten radiation, but if they had radiation therapy already it was less effective.

PeterC said:
Obviously it was less effective, because the fact they has received radiotherapy indicates the cancer had progressed.  But Malcolm is right, if you have a solid cancer you will probably be having surgery at some point. The limitations of chemotherapy are well known.
Other diseases those are successfully cure are AIDS, Brain Tumors, Multiple Sclerosis, Hepatitis, Leukemia, Stroke, Stomach Cancer."
You seem to be mistakenly thinking that “Science” doesn’t want to learn anything from traditional medicine.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  It’s a field that has been and is studied quite extensively for ideas on treatment of diseases. If someone had achieved a functional cure for AIDS there would be researchers all over it, since there’s so much research money in that field.  There are to date only two known cases of a functional cure for AIDS, and they hadn’t seen a Tibetan doctor.

You need to get over your belief that relying on modern science and medicine is somehow disrespectful to the Dharma.  You’re trying to be excessively pious and adopting a position that I doubt any of your lamas ever held.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 10:07 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
None of my teachers said recordings were valid, personally. However, I’ve read Garchens explanation for why he allows empowerment via recording, and by my reading it tracks with your first paragraph.

If I was a Garchen student (I’m not) I would follow it without endless deliberation on DW.

PeterC said:
I agree, and HEGr is a great lama.

Whatever one believes about validity of these things, one should always seek at some point to meet the lama in person to receive empowerment anyway.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Yeah, I think that making a genuine effort to make those connections is, in itself a part of serious practice. Whatever the technical answer, developing that attitude towards practice would make -anything- more effective, the dogs tooth story is pretty on the nose, but it makes a point.

Malcolm wrote:
The dog’s tooth story is for gullible rubes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 8:28 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Indeed. And actually, what happens when blood flow is restricted anywhere in the body? That part begins to die. Why? Because of lack of air

Aemilius said:
Not lack of air but of oxygen in a dissolved liquid form, which would make it "water element"  in the ancient thinking.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Buddhist “elements” is a poetic way of conceptualizing the molecular world. Oxygen itself isn’t inherently a liquid, gas, or solid.

Malcolm wrote:
Not poetic, phenomenological.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 8:20 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Dan74 said:
It means that as always there are many sides to the story.

One side is surely that in many sectors in the US people are paid peanuts and enjoy shocking working conditions. Unions have been destroyed. This is exploitation and abuse pure and simple.

Another one is that many people can't be bothered doing much at all, especially if they can somehow eke out an existence with doing little. It's like a lingering depression. It just doesn't appear to them that the effort is worth making. I don't want to moralise or judge, because it's not a happy state of mind, but yeah, those values mentioned above do appear in short supply among many people, it seems.


Malcolm wrote:
People do what they. You are being judgmental, which is fine, but only if you own it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 3:47 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Dan74 said:
It was really meant as a question, given what I can gather of the culture, not just "the proles" but all round. Effort is just not worth worth making for a lot of people.

Malcolm wrote:
??? WTF is that supposed to mean?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Konchog Thogme Jampa said:
We’re heading into AI Technocratic era anyway where most of the jobs will be done artificially by robots, computers and code

Malcolm wrote:
This will be mostly in agribusiness, services, logistics, and manufacturing. But there will always be a need for plumbers, electricians, farmers, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 2:17 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:
Aloke said:
Oh ok, because of the substances. Which lineages
do have Yogini Jenangs? Thank you very much again!

Malcolm wrote:
The Bari Gyatsa. But it is usually given a whole collection. You might find some lama willing to give the separate jenang.

But you don't need, since you have Mandarava.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 2:08 AM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
Sonam Wangchug said:
However, I know one tibetan doctor, the Ven paltul rinpoche who told me he has been very effective in treating breast cancer using Tibetan medicine, he gets his medicine fresh from Tibet, and not from Men-tsee-khang in dharamsala.  He said though that the Tibetan medicine is effective if they had not yet gotten radiation, but if they had radiation therapy already it was less effective.

Malcolm wrote:
Tibetan Medicine can be used as an adjunct therapy, it has no methods nor herbs that can deal with internal cancers.

Sonam Wangchug said:
however i'm not sure if that is what you classify as an internal cancer.

Malcolm wrote:
Cancerous tumors that generally require surgery for removal. Tibetan medicine can deal with external cancers, like skin cancer and so on.

Sonam Wangchug said:
"One of his specialties is cancer. He has treated thousands of cancer patients from all over the world, including women with breast cancer The rate of survival for people treated with ancient Tibetan herbal therapies with or without adjunct Western cancer treatments appears to be much higher than those receiving allopathic cancer treatments alone.

Other diseases those are successfully cure are AIDS, Brain Tumors, Multiple Sclerosis, Hepatitis, Leukemia, Stroke, Stomach Cancer."

Malcolm wrote:
There are no evidence-based studies in support of such claims.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 12:51 AM
Title: Re: Dharma Protectors of HYT
Content:
tony_montana said:
This might be uber-noob question, I beg for patience. But, do we ever self-generate as a Protector?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, we can, provided we have the right transmission and know what we are doing. Otherwise, better not. There are some protectors however which are almost always give as self-generation, the so-called White Mahākāla (dgon dkar) is one of these, even though white and mahākāla are contradictions in terms.

In all schools, Mahākāla is frequently given as a self-generation practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Math is an explanatory device. It is used to explain observable properties and to predict things in physical reality yet to be observed, it is thus a tool of both deduction and inference. No one claimed it was tool of direct perception. That's what experiment is for.

Zhen Li said:
'

Math is purely the quantitative language of symbols, it cannot help us infer anything qualitative about nature.

Malcolm wrote:
Nonsense, for example, math, as a applied to evolution, can and has been used to predict species in environmental niches.

Zhen Li said:
It has nothing to do with the physical world, it's a symbolic representation.

Malcolm wrote:
Like any language.

Zhen Li said:
Experimentation is not for direct perception—that would negate the requirement for experiments.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course it is. It is used to prove inferences. The only way an inference can be proven is with a direct perception.

Well, then we are talking about two different things entirely. In any case, something conventionally is said to exist, if it functions according to expectations. For example, a car: a car that cannot drive is a non-car by definition, something we refer to as a "broken-down car." But even a broken-car is more of a car than Meru is a mountain. Sure, we can call Meru an mythical mountain, since it is myth. But it is not a real mountain, even conventionally speaking.
I agree with regard to the mythical mountain part. A car that cannot drive is neither necessarily a non-car nor a broken-down car. This underscores the importance of clear definitions. A lot of the issues with the photon situation are simply a lack of clear definitions for generations of particle physics.
I don't think physicists will agree you here.

Meru is a concept. It's a mental dharma.
So is the son of a barren women, but it is mental representation of a total nonexistent. It may have suchness in how it exists—as a concept—but not in what it represents, a total nonexistent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 12:31 AM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:


Sonam Wangchug said:
I'm not threatened by science, as Buddhists we should have confidence in Buddhist methods and teachers.

Otherwise you take refuge in science.

Malcolm wrote:
If one should forgo medical treatment, say for cancer, because accepting medical treatment somehow means one lacks faith in the Dharma, then one is a fool.

There are no effective methods at all for treating internal cancers in Tibetan Medicine. I have this on the authority of one of Tibetan doctors I studied with who is the head of internal medicine in the Qinghai Tibetan Medical hospital.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 26th, 2021 at 12:18 AM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Your aim is still off. You need to adjust the sights of your rifle.


Sonam Wangchug said:
it's not only that he is criticizing the wrong application of the practices, since he prefaces it with believe in science and do away with superstitious beliefs, so he is directly calling these profound skillful means left behind by Guru Rinpoche as superstitious and not effective.

Malcolm wrote:
He is criticizing motivation:

This may be an ancient tradition but certainly it is not a genuine Buddhist practice. Hoisting flags in the mountains with the hope of increasing one’s fortune is not a Buddhist aspiration. The main Buddhist principle is the law of cause and effect. Without accumulated merit from previous lives or without any genuine bodhicitta, there is no reason that by simply putting up prayer-flags in the mountaintops would bring one any good result

Again, here he is criticizing motivation for the same reason he is criticizing hoisting prayer flags for personal benefit.

In order to fool their patrons, fake monks and lamas these days make all kinds of terbums or treasure vases stuffed with various items claiming that these will enhance their wealth, life and luck and patrons are then made to buy them.

As for his embrace of science, well, Tibetans need to study the sciences so they can secure decent employment for themselves. Tibetans are among the most underemployed people in the PRC, primarily because of their illiteracy and lack of education. There is really nothing wrong in advocating that Tibetans get up to speed in the sciences. In Tibetan schools in India, physics, math, and so on are taught. No one but you has a problem with this. And yes, he is criticizing Tibetans for not following the Buddha's understanding of cause and effect and giving into superstitions. For example, he really criticized Tibetan doctors for charging for nagpo gujor pills, even though he thinks they are worthless for preventing rims nad like covid. He points out if those pills really had the proper amount of musk in them, if any at all, they would be selling for $50.00 a piece (300 rmb), an exorbitant price. Hence, he accused Tibetan doctors of profiting off the superstitions of Tibetans through selling them cheap, counterfeit nagpo gujor pills.



Sonam Wangchug said:
However,  masters who are capable of perceiving local deities, or diagnosing problems via divinations, like Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche, or Lama dawa rinpoche for example, can see that sometimes problems stem from unseen sources which require such spiritual solutions.

Malcolm wrote:
Such lamas are as rare as stars during the day.


Sonam Wangchug said:
Of course if one looks with a doubtful mind one can find flaws in any teacher, sutra, tantra, etc .. However for practitioners there is a different way of handling perceived inconsistencies with humility.

Although a prophecy may give a description of benefits, at the end of the day these still depend on the causes and conditions, so perhaps in ideal circumstances it would unfold as such, however depending on circumstances it depends. It still would bring nothing but benefit if done in the right way, and if we do not believe it, then we do not believe Guru Rinpoche, and that is I suppose ones right, but one thing is for sure Guru Rinpoche , and the methods he left behind, will never deceive anyone and are unfailing.

Malcolm wrote:
That depends on whether one accepts treasure teachings or not. I suspect Thubten Phuntsok is suspicious of treasure teachings, and more to the point, people who claim to be tertons. Tibetan history is littered with false tertons, and even some of the supposedly authentic ones are pretty dodgy characters who plagiarize whole texts from other schools, barely altering a single word, other than substituting Guru Rinpoche's name for the original Tibetan author.

Sonam Wangchug said:
I'm not really sure who started the tradition of throwing colored papers, or if it has any authentic history at all, possible that it doesn't. I've mainly only seen it happening with Khampas.

Malcolm wrote:
All Tibetans do it.

Sonam Wangchug said:
The problem with such writings and defense of them is as the end of the day it will only decrease peoples faith and devotion in the three jewels, and the root of all benefit comes from devotion. There are countless things we do in Vajrayana that to skeptics would be called nothing but superstition, are we going to start cow towing every time some modern mind gets a namtok? no.. we can truly trust our teachers. All this modern minded pujas don't really work and are superstitious jargon has to go. Pujas when performed correctly can bring tremendous benefit and are not 'superstitions' as the author claims.

Malcolm wrote:
He isn't claiming what you imagine he is claiming. He is a traditionally-trained doctor of Tibetan medicine. I am quite sure he knows far more about pujas and so on than do you or I.


Sonam Wangchug said:
We don't hear HHDL, HHST, etc proclaiming these practices as "superstitious" and not having authenticity,

Malcolm wrote:
It is well known that HHDL thinks elemental calculation is nonsense. It is also well-known that HHDL is keen enthusiast for science, and strongly supports modern education for Tibetans.


Sonam Wangchug said:
just think of how many compositions of various masters there are on methods of life release, prayer flags, lung ta etc (khyentse wangpo, mipham etc) .. These were not deluded beings, they compose these works because they bring great benefit to sentient beings, so let's instead argue for their continued "correct" application, as they were intended.

Malcolm wrote:
Thubten Phuntsok is arguing for their correct application, apart from prayer flags, which are just a pre-Buddhist custom in Tibet, as everyone knows:

On prayer flags:

Throwing up papers printed with mani and other mantras everywhere has two negative consequences – from the religious point of view it shows disrespect to the mantras; and from the scientific point of view it causes pollution to the land. Hence the throwing of paper prayer-flags is harmful both for this and the next life. This is a result of not knowing how to practice Buddhism.

On treasure vases:

These water bodies that have never witnessed any pollution are contaminated. Living things in these larger waters die whereas smaller water bodies dry up. Large lakes turn dirty as can be seen from many pictures available online. This too is a result of not knowing how to practice Buddhism.

On life ransom:

But the fish suffer 1. they suffer from being caught in the first place; 2. they suffer as they are transported long distances from east to west and consequently many die because of a lack of native water. Hence water bodies are filled with dead fish and they become polluted. This too is a result of not knowing how to practice Buddhism.

On vegetarianism:

But for the poor and subsistence of ordinary people, this choice does not exist. In the Kham region of eastern Tibet, because of the ban on eating meat, a large quantity of old and out of date food items from cities are transported and sold in villages where Tibetans live. This has become a kind of habit for people to show off by eating these Chinese foods. This is one of the main consequences of banning eating of meat. This too is a result of not knowing how to practice Buddhism.

He concludes:

Tibet may be filled with monks
But the land is filled with conflicts,
They may be praying for world peace
But their land is filled with fighting.

Mountains and valleys are filled with prayer-flags
Amidst these flags are the carcasses of dead yaks,
Businessmen may ransom many fish
But dead bodies of these fish fill the water bodies.

Nomads avoid slaughtering
But lamas commit murders,
Farmers abide by the five precepts
But monks engage in sexual acts.

There are things here in Tibet
That do not exist elsewhere,
This religious education,
A la la! What a wonder!

And every words of what he says is true. Frankly, your only complaint is that he advocates that Tibetans become educated in tshan rig, science, because when they do, they will abandon some traditional practices when they understand that they do not correspond to the principle of cause and effect. It is also well known that he thinks practices like mantra healing and so are completely fraudulent. But that is his right. Just as you have the right to credulously accept any story you hear about this lama and that lama, he has the right to doubt these things. But from his point of view, Tibetans are being ripped of and exploited by their own religious and secular authorities, and that, and nothing else, was the real cause of the Chinese Invasion of Tibet.

Tibet, prior to the fall, was a corrupt, medieval society, where aristocrats felt they could treat common people anyway they liked, where there was no democracy, and so on. It is not a surprise to discover that most of the Red Guards who engaged in the cultural revolution in Tibet were Tibetan cadres made up of illiterate Tibetan peasants, and not Chinese cadres. After the 13th Dalai passed in 1936, the Lhasa elites became too absorbed in their own power games to look up and see the train that was bearing down on them, the 14th Dalai Lama was too young to fend off the Communists, and those in Eastern Tibet were apathetic to hostile to the Lhasa Gvt.

You can claim all you like that building this statue and following that prophecy would have saved Tibet the indignity of being occupied by the Chinese Communists, but as they say, hindsight is 20/20. It is very common to blame the other guy for your own problems—— So sectarian Nyingmapas and Kagyupas blame the Gelukpas (like you are doing here), sectarian Gelukpas blame the Nyingmas and the Kagyus, etc.

The reality is that Tibet was not a unified nation, it was more like Germany or Italy in the mid 19th century. It was not unified, there was no effective national army with modern weapons and training. At the root of the issue was that the Khampas, hating Lhasa rule, did little to nothing to prevent the Chinese occupation. Similarly, the Amdowas did little to nothing to prevent the Chinese occupation. The history of the Chinese Occupation is well documented, so these facts are not disputable.

To reiterate: Tibet fell because it was not a unified country. That Lhasa nobles ignored advice from Khampa lamas is not surprising in the least. So, in reality, the real cause of the fall of Tibet was elite self-absorption combined with seething ethnic rivalry, which resulted in a situation where Tibetans, divided amongst themselves, could not stand against the Chinese occupation, a state of affairs that continues to this day.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 10:27 PM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:
Aloke said:
Malcolm, could the Vajrayogini Empowerment/Blessing (Naro Kachod) be given online? It is a Jenang, based on a previous 2 day Major Empowerment right?

Malcolm wrote:
Yogini is a blessing, not a permission, so no.

There are yogini permissions, this not one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 10:09 AM
Title: Re: Eight precepts
Content:
Mirror said:
Hello,

I'm interested in keeping precepts, but as a lay practitioner I don't have much possibilities except for the basic 5 lay precepts and bodhisattva vows at my level of practice. Can I keep "officially" (properly taking them with a teacher and other stuff that has to be done according to a tradition) eight mahayana precepts (sojong vows if I'm not mistaken) for entire life like pratimoksa vows?

Sorry for my confusion. I'll be glad for any answer and clarification. Thank you

Malcolm wrote:
Generally you receive the fast days vows, even the Mahayana version from someone who has them. Then can administer them in your own. The reason for this is that there is no Mahayana rite for taking fast days vows. What makes them Mahayana is intent, but unlike bodhisattva vows, no rite is specified for taking them in absence of a preceptor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 5:43 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:


Aloke said:
What you think of some Lamas that give the Major Empowerments online, asking students to arrange some objects/substances in theirs places, or visualizing?

Malcolm wrote:
All I can say is caveat emptor. I don't think this is valid, but that's just me. People generally speaking do whatever they want and justify whatever they do, regardless of what anyone else says. Innocent people have no way of knowing what is correct and what is not correct. But as far as I am concerned, this is not correct. With respect to the five deity Cakrasamvara, I am pretty sure Jhado Rinpoche would consider this incorrect, even though he does give permissions online.

Aloke said:
As I consider CNNR as one of my Gurus, and really love His way of teaching and approach, I tend to see things as the Master would said always, in the way of working with circumstances. This for me is the more reasonable and logic way.

Malcolm wrote:
He explicitly excluded the possibility of giving major empowerments online, and absolutely dismissed the possibility that people could receive empowerments and lungs from recordings, not once but repeatedly, over more than a decade.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 5:07 AM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
Tibetan societies are certainly plagued with many problems. But truth be told, I do not think any "Westerner" can afford to pronounce it unhealthy or nightmarish. However environmentally destructive and uninformed they are, they have still so much to learn from the masters of the genre.

Malcolm wrote:
It's pretty bad. Monasteries have no means of waste disposal, so they just pitch their garbage over the sides of ravines, where it washes down into rivers.

The Tibetan landscape is littered with millions upon millions of plastic bags, which get caught on fences, prayer flags to modern consumerism. In many places in Amdo the forests were cut down before the Chinese arrived in force, for example, Amdo used to have millions of acres of forest land, which was all leveled for pasturing sheep in the 30's and 40's. The only reason the trees in Kham were not similarly raised is that the those forests are on steep mountain sides. Now there is very little old growth forest left in Amdo. Of course, the Tibetans in U and Tsang cut down all their trees more than a thousand years ago. Tibetans are human beings, with the same faults as everyone else. They are not masters of deep ecology or conservationism by any means. The Tibetans themselves hunted snow leopards, as well as Himalayan tigers, nearly to extinction. They hunted lions into extinction in their territory, .


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
An unintuitive mystery of Buddhism is that the elements can "glow" when viewed in samādhi.

Malcolm wrote:
It's not a mystery at all. The fundamental nature of the elements is actually jñāna, solidified into matter through ignorance.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 4:34 AM
Title: Re: Acceptable ways of Transmissions (Lung, Jenang, Wang)
Content:
Aloke said:
I was pondering about this subject in the last months, and since there's no consensus even among the great Masters, I was a little bit reluctant to put some questions here. But I think, with the due respect to different teachers and different ways, this kind of discussion could be of benefit for the better understanding of how things really work or should work in Vajrayana and Dzogchen.

Malcolm wrote:
We have to work with scripture and reasoning, and see what shakes out from that.

Since the fourth empowerment is given with words, it can be given online.
Since the gnosis of the wisdom consort empowerment is only symbolic now, it can be given online.
Since the secret empowerment too is a symbolic blessing of speech, which is no longer practiced according to the requirements of the ancient manuals, it too can be given online. Thus the three inner empowerments can be given online.

The eleven empowerments of the vase empowerments however, require the disciple to receive actual substances from the guru at some point during the rite. Therefore it cannot be given online. Therefore, major empowerments cannot be given or received online. Not only this, but the preparation day for a major empowerment contains many procedures needed to make the disciple a suitable recipient for each one of the four main empowerments in the rite.

Meaning empowerments (don dbang) sometimes also called symbolic empowerments (brda dbang) can be given on line. In particular, since these generally include the empowerment of the potential of vidyā (rig pa'i rtsal dbang), they are satisfactory as ripening empowerments. Also, the empowerment of the potential of vidyā alone, sometimes calls "direct introduction" is satisfactory as a ripening empowerment. This is because the empowerment of the potential of vidyā is the mother of all other empowerments.

Permissions (rje gnang) can be given online. Blessings (byin brlabs) cannot, since they also require substances.

The idea that one can receive empowerments and lungs from recordings is not reasonable, just as it is not reasonable to claim one can receive monastic ordination from a recording. Someone who claims to have received such empowerments and lungs via recordings should understand that other people will not accept this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 3:42 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Anders said:
Also, the whole blood flow system is basically transportating transformed oxygen throughout the body. "Air" is fundamental to every process of the body.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed. And actually, what happens when blood flow is restricted anywhere in the body? That part begins to die. Why? Because of lack of air


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 2:32 AM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You might try aiming first before pulling the trigger...

Sonam Wangchug said:
The emphasis of his argument seems displaced, and his logic twisted and underdeveloped.

He is emphasizing that is it "Fake lama's" who spread these practices, and that they are merely superstitious.

however it is a dishonest emphasis because clearly many authentic lama's of the past and present have recommended these practices (which as Buddhists should be our emphasis). In one vein he talks about the masters of the past having an important opinion when it regards eating meat, but then he also disregards the blessings of authentic masters validating these practices.

Malcolm wrote:
No, he just thinks there are a lot of Tibetans being taken advantage of.


Sonam Wangchug said:
Instead of focusing on the angle that these are authentic practices, and emphasizing that they should be done with natural materials etc, he is imploring people to cease them, which is ignorance.

Malcolm wrote:
No, he is asking people to use their common sense.

Sonam Wangchug said:
Whether one sees prayer flags as an adopted practice, the fact of the matter is that prayer flags are not merely colored cloth, they have the sacred words of the Dharma on them, and as such bring benefit to the world.

Malcolm wrote:
He addresses this, by pointing out that spreading pieces of paper with mantras and so on written upon them, a kind of cheap prayer flag, which get blown about on the wind, inevitably wind up being trampled upon. How is this a correct practice from any point of view?

Sonam Wangchug said:
Thinking of an authentic master for merely a moment has the power to clarify myriad wrong views and discursive thoughts. I recall Kyabje Garchen Rinpoche, who, when passing under Lungta, touches them to his forehead with total reverence, this is how people with devotion in dharma act, and as such why I said without -much- faith.

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe, Zen people might ignore prayer flags altogether-- is their devotion to Dharma lacking?

Sonam Wangchug said:
As far as life release goes, life release is one of the most powerful and beneficial karmic actions which can be performed, and it has prolonged the life of many who were destined for death ( humans not only animals ) and as such that is why it is recommended. Of course it can be performed in the wrong way, and every attention should be given to that...

Malcolm wrote:
Again, Thubten Phuntsok is criticizing the practice of throwing river fish from China into the headwaters of rivers on the Tibetan plateau. He is not criticizing the practice of srog bslu per se, he is criticizing the incorrect application of it.

Sonam Wangchug said:
It is more a characteristic of chinese Buddhism which may emphasize veg leaning scriptures like the Lankavatara, shurangama etc add to the fact that chinese culture is also influenced by Taoism and Confucianism in terms of being very conduct leaning.

Malcolm wrote:
Which Thubten Phuntsok is criticizing.

Sonam Wangchug said:
the same author spent 21 years as a gelug monk,

Malcolm wrote:
No, Thubten Phuntsog is a Karma Kagyu person from Derge, associated with Palpung Monastery and never spent one day as a monk. You have the wrong guy. You have confused this guy:

https://www.patreon.com/thuptenphuntsok:
Thupten Phuntsok is a former ordained Buddhist monk for 21 years, studying under his main teacher Sermey Kensur Geshe Lobsang Tharchin.
For this guy:



Sonam Wangchug said:
Thubten Phuntsok is a prolific scholar of Tibetan Studies with dozens of books and numerous articles published in the fields of Tibetan history, Tibetan medicine, and Tibetan literature, grammar, and poetry. Originally a Tibetan medicine doctor in his hometown of Derge, he has an academic background in archeology and Tibetology. He is currently a professor and researcher in the department of Tibetan Studies at the Central Nationalities University in Beijing, China. He is also the director of the Tibetan Medical Institute and the president of Tibetan AIDS Prevention Association. He has won many national awards for his publications on language, history, religion, and medicine.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.trace.org/node/194

Sonam Wangchug said:
"In Tibet, more than a thousand years ago, many great saints possessed the knowledge to prevent wars, famines and disease.

Malcolm wrote:
Clearly it didn't work, since the history of Tibet is filled with war, famine, and disease.

Sonam Wangchug said:
From the time the vases were ‘planted’ until the time the Chinese Communist forces brought about the ‘cultural revolution’ it was recorded in Tibetan history that there were no major wars, famines or disease.

Malcolm wrote:
This is complete and total nonsense. Read One Hundred Thousand Moons by Tsepon Wangchuk Dedon Shakabpa. It might open your eyes.

Sonam Wangchug said:
We, of the technological societies, have for many years witnessed the reckless deterioration of the world. Our Earth’s resources are being rapidly raped, plundered or polluted and will eventually be exhausted, or will exhaust themselves.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhist societies have no better a track record in the destruction of environments than non-buddhist ones.

Sonam Wangchug said:
The peoples of this degenerate age are inflamed with desire, hatred and jealousy and no understanding of giving up negative actions and developing positive ones is cultivated.

Malcolm wrote:
The Kali Yuga will not be fixed with bandaids.

Sonam Wangchug said:
With the motivation that the turbulence and suffering of sickness, famine, wars and conflicts throughout the whole world may be pacified and that the auspiciousness of virtue and well-being may pervade over all the world and that all beings may continuously enjoy the splendor of exaltation, the vases are made. When the vases are placed, all the various countries where they are buried will abide in supreme virtue, the wealth and splendor of the dharma will remain long and they will bring good fortune and long life free from illness. All beings will turn away from quarrels and strife, gathering in sublime perfection and remaining till the end of the Age.

Malcolm wrote:
These are all nice aspirations, but the decline of humanity will not be prevented by burying pots filled with gems in the ground and so on, if it can be prevented at all. Not all the treasures vases in Tibet, nor stupas, statues, and so on, prevented the Chinese from rolling in and smashing Tibetan civilization into smithereens.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 12:37 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
I'm not sure I understand your logic.  Why should people stay in jobs that make them miserable simply because there are other people who would be willing to take those jobs?

Malcolm wrote:
And they are not staying in these jobs, because they are not safe and there are better opportunities for them elsewhere.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Aemilius said:
Modern anatomy hasn't found  channels of air in the body. Instead there are nerves and pathways of chemicals messages.
There is not much future for the conception of the air flowing in the body.

Malcolm wrote:
That very much depends on what one understands the element of air to be. If one understands it to be the motile property of matter, as described Abhidharma, and so on, it works just fine.

Not only this, the great Tibetan scholar Desi Sangye Gyatso, points out in his commentary on the medical tantra, that the way things are presented in the tantras is obscure, and the same things are presented in the medical literature openly. Zurkhar opines that central, right, and left channels are respectively the arterial system, the venous system, and the nervous/lymphatic system, and that further, the way nāḍīs exist in the body is not the same as the way they are visualized and not need be. Further, the Kalacakra points out that the lower ends of these three nadis are the the urethra, the seminal vesicle channel, and the rectum, further indicating that they are to be understood as physical structures in the body, but not as they are visualized. If you want to understand these things properly, you ought to study Ayurveda or Tibetan Medicine rather than making a mishmash by trying to adapt these things to some modern scientists naive attempt to explain ancient knowledge systems and make it fit with modern science.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 12:20 AM
Title: Re: The Great Quit
Content:
Shinjin said:
Meanwhile many poor and desperate around the world who would love to come take these jobs without hesistation. Are they doing the right thing or are Americans just spoiled and ungrateful?

Malcolm wrote:
Customer-facing service industry jobs suck. Most of the "big quit" is a result of unruly, ill-mannered customers who refuse to follow masking guidelines, get vaccinations etc. Thus, people are leaving customer facing jobs in the service industries at record rates for their personal safety.

Even so, unemployment is at an all time low in the US, because there are plenty of other service industry jobs that do not require dealing with customers personally.

And, in fact the US is responsible for the employment of millions of people overseas, from call center jobs to manufacturing. You might complain that these jobs pay much less than they would in the US, and this is true. But this is a function of comparative advantage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 25th, 2021 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Math does not create material reality.

Malcolm wrote:
Math is an explanatory device. It is used to explain observable properties and to predict things in physical reality yet to be observed, it is thus a tool of both deduction and inference. No one claimed it was tool of direct perception. That's what experiment is for.

Zhen Li said:
I am not talking about conventions, I am talking about belief and merely functional versus correct explanations.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, then we are talking about two different things entirely. In any case, something conventionally is said to exist, if it functions according to expectations. For example, a car: a car that cannot drive is a non-car by definition, something we refer to as a "broken-down car." But even a broken-car is more of a car than Meru is a mountain. Sure, we can call Meru an mythical mountain, since it is myth. But it is not a real mountain, even conventionally speaking.

Zhen Li said:
I actually think that "explanation" is not something Buddhism needs to do so well. That's the role of philosophy and science (when properly done).

Malcolm wrote:
Meru belongs in the world of science, since it is a claim about the structural of physical reality.

Zhen Li said:
These pertain to the world of illusion, and are not, ultimately, of import. Suchness is beyond such calculative thought.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no Meru, nor cars in suchness; but there is suchness in cars, unlike Meru. Suchness cannot exist in something which is totally unreal, like the child of a barren woman. There is no dharmatā without dharmin.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 11:44 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Aemilius said:
Certainly not air.

Malcolm wrote:
Certainly it is the air element.

There are only four or five elements that make the human body. One of those is air. If you wish to confirm this read the Nandagarbhavikranti sūtra, which describes how the air element shapes the fetus over its thirty-eight week gestational period. Or, you can read the Vajra Rosary Tantra, which is now in English translation, and is one of the primary sources for the doctrine of the ten vāyus and how they function in the human body. Or you can read the Profound Inner Meaning by the Third Karmapa, which unifies the teachings of the vajra body in one place, translated by Elizabeth Callahan.

Translating the word vāyu/rlung as "energy" is fashionable, but it is also completely inaccurate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Particle OR wave explanations are always wrong on a material level.

Malcolm wrote:
You have the math to back that up?

Zhen Li said:
To put it this way, if I "believe" that magnets point north because a magician enchanted my compass, that is a functionally useful explanation, but it's not a correct explanation.

Malcolm wrote:
That not what "conventional" means. "Conventional" that which can be validated by healthy sense organs of ordinary people. No one's healthy sense organs can confirm a magicians enchantment, but everyone can confirm a compass points to magnetic north.

Zhen Li said:
This is going a bit beyond my point, however. My point is that photons are not a good comparison with Meru. Compare the nature of one mountain to another rather than an inscrutable and incomprehensible corpuscle.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course they are: photons conventionally exist, Meru does not. Both lack mass and charge, but the former explains the function of physical light, the latter explains nothing at all anymore. But we still use this axial cosmology symbolically. I was recently reminded (in the new bio of Dogen by Steve Heine) of John McRae's four dictums of Zen studies, the first of which is "it's not true, therefore, it is more important." I think this can be applied to Buddhist mythopoeia across the board.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 11:02 PM
Title: Re: Sensory deprivation/float tanks
Content:
Toenail said:
I believe it has amazing potential for treatment resistant depression, especially if you microdose it.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, though more research has been done on psylocibin in the US than LSD, thus far. It seems that psylocibin creates novel pathways in the brain, thus it is also effective for certain types of traumatic brain injuries as well. From what I understand, one controlled session of psylocibin can lift chronic depression for a year, or so I have read, but that maybe anecdotal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 10:46 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Well, no, photons are empirically detectable, unlike say, Mt. Meru.

Zhen Li said:
When you end up with something with zero dimensions, it's not that it has no mass, but that the model is wrong.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the model isn't wrong, it functions, therefore it is conventionally valid. This does not mean that there isn't something yet to be discovered that we have not understood.

Zhen Li said:
I am not defending Mt. Meru. I am instead suggesting that we should be careful about putting too much credence in things like photons.

Malcolm wrote:
I give credence to things that can be conventionally established, based on Madhyamaka criteria for what qualifies as conventional truth--these days that includes photons and not Mt. Meru. I am not making an argument from the point of view of logical positivism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 10:41 PM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:
tobes said:
I admit that I was surprised when I saw these figures, but I think they highlight that in terms of common/everyday experience, mind or consciousness 'feels' pretty immaterial.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't agree. People are conditioned in our culture to accept cartesian dualism from the cradle. The reason why people turn away from theistic religion in general is that it does not correspond to their experience. They have never experienced consciousness in any way other than through their physical senses. Those who have a notion of an immaterial self or consciousness have it because they have been conditioned to think the mind (soul) and body are different by 500 years of Cartesianism. They don' have to be philosophical to be influenced by ideas that have been dominant themes in our culture for hundreds of years.

Buddhist substance dualism is predicated on different principles that cartesian dualism. But we can see it still provokes problems for Westerners by their difficulty in distinguishing the Buddhist principal of karmic transmigration from the Neoplatonic/Christian concept of the soul (psyche).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 9:56 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
*Do confused this light with photons. Despite having no mass or charge, photons are compounded entities and can be created and destroyed.

Zhen Li said:
Photons, a massless particle that can be created and destroyed... Right. We can create and destroy all sorts of things in the realm of imagination. This kind of stuff is reason enough to reject secular "cosmology."

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no, photons are empirically detectable, unlike say, Mt. Meru.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 9:53 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Aemilius said:
As you probably know, in Buddhist tantra "winds" mean different currents or forces within in the body that cause body's functioning.

Malcolm wrote:
It just means the element of air inside of the body and it’s ten functions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 9:15 AM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:


tobes said:
All of this is pre-philosophical for most people.

Malcolm wrote:
Even in the time of the Buddha, most people thought the body was their self.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 7:31 AM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:


tobes said:
Yes, but part of the issue here is not 'which ontology we believe in' but more 'how do we experience these matters in everyday life?'

Malcolm wrote:
I think, frankly, that people are incapable of imagining any experience that is not embodied. Experience by its definition implies embodiment. We only experience the five senses directly, and the mental experience is all derived, secondary.

I think substance dualism is more difficult to accept and more abstract than substance nondualism. This is why most educated people these days are materialists, don't believe in a soul, and don't believe in a next life. For them, substance dualism is very counter-intuitive.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:
Queequeg said:
I guess I have an idea of Madhyamaka in my mind that is very narrow - namely MMK and the mode of analysis set forth.

Malcolm wrote:
Unfortunately, this is very common.

Personally, when it comes to Vinaya, I consider myself a Mūlasarvastivādin upāsaka; when it comes to Sūtra, I consider myself a Mādhyamika (also my bodhisattva vows come from the Madhyamaka system); and when it comes to Abhidharma, I consider myself an exponent principally of the Great Perfection, since Vajrayāna in general is considered part of the Abhidharmapiṭaka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 2:26 AM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:



Queequeg said:
Ah. A different approach than the Mahayana teaching on emptiness... or rather, perhaps its best to suggest this teaching addresses the implied space left over following Madhyamaka analysis.

Malcolm wrote:
Madhyamaka does not contest the conventional presentations of either sūtra or tantra. Within their own context, both presentations are functional, hence conventionally valid, since neither depend on essences for their function.

Queequeg said:
In referring to "sutra", are you including both Sravakayana and Mahayana?

Malcolm wrote:
The collection of reasoning in Madhyamaka is mainly concerned with removing misconceptions about dependent origination.

Queequeg said:
My sense of Madhyamaka is that it brings us to a certain point - emptiness - but doesn't go beyond that. In a sense, that's the point - Madhyamaka brings us to Vimalakirti's silence. Madhyamaka refers to but doesn't actually address bodhisattva activity and its practice.

Malcolm wrote:
That is not true. Āryadeva's 400 verses is actually titled Bodhisattvayogācāracatuḥśataka, i.e. The Four Hundred Verses on the Yoga Practice of Bodhisattvas. The first half is on relative bodhicitta and conventional truth; the second half is on ultimate bodhicitta and ultimate truth. There there is Nāgārjunas Ratnavali, Mahāyanavimsika, the four praises, and so on, which give more detail on the bodhisattva path from a Mahayāna perspective. While it is certainly true the Yogacāra school greatly elaborated on the details, its all there in Madhyamaka.


Queequeg said:
I'm not sure how Tantra fits into this conceptualization except to refer to the teaching I've encountered that says Tantra is not a difference in view from Mahayana, but rather a difference in practice.

Malcolm wrote:
The Madhyamaka perspective on the path is that it is all illusory, from beginning to end, and that doesn't depend on whether we are talking about sūtra or tantra.

Queequeg said:
Tantra seems to present a refined and immediate application of Mahayana view as well as further insights into tathagatagarbha/buddhanature.

Malcolm wrote:
The main difference is method, yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 24th, 2021 at 12:25 AM
Title: Re: Sensory deprivation/float tanks
Content:


Sādhaka said:
I’d rather try some of the other ‘entheogens’ that I mentioned, that is to avoid long-term of side-effects of synthetic drugs (I admit that most natural plants can have toxic short-term side-effects; however most synthetic drugs have possible long-term side-effects)

Malcolm wrote:
LSD is gone from your system in 6 hours, max. It has no known toxic side effects. Pure LSD is the cleanest drug out there. However, LSD found on the street may not be manufactured under ideal laboratory conditions, or be counterfeit. Therefore, it should not be ingested.

However, with renewed interest psychedelics, properly manufactured LSD administered clinically is complete safe, from a toxicity point of view. I haven't done LSD myself since 1979, I wouldn't take anything found on the street today at all. The downside to acid is that it lasts a good 12 hours. This is why people like DMT and analogues, because it lasts ten minutes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 23rd, 2021 at 11:51 PM
Title: Re: Meditation on Amitābha by Sakya Paṇḍita Kunga Gyaltsen
Content:
Mirror said:
You mean The Extraordinary Aspiration of the Practice of Samantabhadra?

Malcolm wrote:
Not sure, I mean the one that comes from the Gandhavyuha Sūtra, the Bhadracaryapranidhana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 23rd, 2021 at 10:40 PM
Title: Re: Meditation on Amitābha by Sakya Paṇḍita Kunga Gyaltsen
Content:
Mirror said:
Thank you so much Malcolm for the explanation! I'll try to find a teacher, who can give me the teachings and empowerment.

Malcolm wrote:
His Holiness Sakya Trichen has been giving initiations online. You should check his schedule to see if there are any upcoming events.

In the meantime, you can recite the Noble King of Prayers, which concludes with an aspiration to be born in Sukhavati. This is the best way to accumulate the merit needed to meet an authentic teacher of Buddhadharma.

Also, Jhado Rinpoche, a highly esteemed, reputable, and nonsectarian Gelukpa Lama, has been giving some initiations online recently and I think plans to continue to do so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 23rd, 2021 at 10:36 PM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:
tobes said:
I actually think we get far too wrapped up in the rhetoric of non-dualism, and for this reason the body-mind unity remains a conceptual fiction far removed from our everyday experience......which is usually pretty damned dualistic.

Malcolm wrote:
In sūtrayāna, the distinction between mind and body is substantial, they are considered to be different substances (dravya). Dharmakīrti, for example, goes to great lengths to prove the mind and body are substantially different in order to prove rebirth.

In higher tantras, and especially Dzogchen teachings, this substance dualism is abandoned.

Queequeg said:
Ah. A different approach than the Mahayana teaching on emptiness... or rather, perhaps its best to suggest this teaching addresses the implied space left over following Madhyamaka analysis.

Malcolm wrote:
Madhyamaka does not contest the conventional presentations of either sūtra or tantra. Within their own context, both presentations are functional, hence conventionally valid, since neither depend on essences for their function.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 23rd, 2021 at 10:10 PM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:
tobes said:
I actually think we get far too wrapped up in the rhetoric of non-dualism, and for this reason the body-mind unity remains a conceptual fiction far removed from our everyday experience......which is usually pretty damned dualistic.

Malcolm wrote:
In sūtrayāna, the distinction between mind and body is substantial, they are considered to be different substances (dravya). Dharmakīrti, for example, goes to great lengths to prove the mind and body are substantially different in order to prove rebirth.

In higher tantras, and especially Dzogchen teachings, this substance dualism is abandoned.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 23rd, 2021 at 10:04 PM
Title: Re: Meditation on Amitābha by Sakya Paṇḍita Kunga Gyaltsen
Content:
Mirror said:
Please does someone know, if I need empowerment to practise this?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, you do. It specifies that you are to visualize yourself as a yidam, that you have a guru, and so on. Anyone familiar with Sakya Pandita's point of view, the author of this text, will understand that this is a sleeping yoga, which is a Vajrayāna practice. While the text does not specify what yidam one should visualize oneself as, this practice is most commonly combined with the practice of Avalokiteśvara.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 22nd, 2021 at 10:50 PM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
Queequeg said:
I don't see how advocacy would be effective. Maybe its the only thing possible.

Malcolm wrote:
Casinos in Lhasa (they're already there, but not controlled by Tibetans).

Can you imagine, Casino Potala. Wish I had photoshop skilz.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 22nd, 2021 at 10:35 PM
Title: Re: Tathāgataguhya Sūtra (Secrets of the Tathāgata) translation now published
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Hello everyone. My translation of the Tathāgataguhya Sūtra ( The Secrets of the Tathāgata ) is now published. It can be read online for free from my https://sites.google.com/view/shingans-portal/s%C5%ABtra-translations, and hard copies are available for purchase on https://www.lulu.com/en/gb/shop/shaku-shingan-/the-secrets-of-the-tath%C4%81gata/hardcover/product-4gjw98.html?page=1&pageSize=4. Please feel free to share your thoughts. I look forward to discussing this sūtra in the days to come.

Malcolm wrote:
Good job. I've purchased a copy because I believe independent translators who demonstrate good scholarship should be supported.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 22nd, 2021 at 10:29 PM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
I wish I knew more about the Tibetan present-day "modernizing" movement, it looks very hopeful.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, if Tibetans could or would set up casinos...that's exactly what it looks like. The Chinese have used our treatment of native people as a pretext for ignoring US complaints about their human rights abuses. They have done exactly what we did during our westward expansion (1883, anyone?). They have fenced off traditional grazing grounds, moved nomads into fixed settlements, and so on. A way of life that existed even twenty years ago has all but vanished everywhere but the most remote parts of the Tibetan plateau.

So, Tibetan modernization means advocating for Tibetan language and religious rights combined with assimilation into broader Han culture. They have no choice. Tibetan independence is an impractical dream and everyone but some holdouts in Dharamshala know this. Nevertheless, Tibetans are a stubborn bunch and many refuse to assimilate, refusing to learn Chinese beyond a kind of pidgin, despite the obvious economic and social advantages.  While I sympathize with the anti-assimilationists, theirs is, in the long run, a losing cause. They need to shift from resistance to advocacy.

QQ said:
Whatever Tibetan society survives is going to be indelibly transformed.

Malcolm wrote:
That's a done deal already.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 22nd, 2021 at 6:39 AM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:



Queequeg said:
Where can I find explanations of this process? Abhidarmakosa?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and BITL.

Caoimhghín said:
I've noticed you mention "BITL" a few times. If you don't mind me asking, what is this acronym? There is a lama with an acronym of "LOTR" who was "Lord of the Rings" in my mind for a while until someone wrote out his actual name. What is BITL?

Malcolm wrote:
My translation, "Buddhahood in this Life."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 22nd, 2021 at 6:19 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Queequeg said:
ty

Malcolm wrote:
We can discuss elsewhere.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 22nd, 2021 at 5:05 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:



Queequeg said:
Does this mean mind is matter?

Malcolm wrote:
It means that matter is derived from mind. But I forgot to include, this is the great perfection understanding of the elements. Simply put, the four or five elements are experienced in their gross form only because sentient beings do not recognize the four or five elements in their true form, as the five lights* of the five pristine consciousnesses (ye shes, jñāna).



*Do confused this light with photons. Despite having no mass or charge, photons are compounded entities and can be created and destroyed.

Queequeg said:
Do the four elements spontaneously arise together or do they arise sequentially? For some reason I have in my mind:

mind/space + ignorance -> air/wind/motility -> fire/heat -> water/liquidity -> earth/solidity

I think I have in mind the descent of beings from formless realms as described in ADKB and the myth of the devas and asuras frothing up the ocean to create Jambudvipa, crossed with the description of the appearance of beings at the beginning of a major kalpa.

Alternatively, in Samantabhadra's case:

mind/space + awareness -> five lights

?

Malcolm wrote:
Once the process of nonrecogition occurs, it is sequential, as in ADKB. etc.. with the appearance of beings at the beginning of a major kalpa.

BITL 88-87 describes this very briefly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 22nd, 2021 at 3:16 AM
Title: Re: Correct but not right
Content:
Nadereme said:
Based on what I’ve seen so far with the vastness of Tibetan/Vajra, it’s almost like everyone is ‘correct’ in the sense that everything that everyone says, does, experiences, believes, practices, etc...

Malcolm wrote:
No, they follow mistaken paths. They are not correct in any sense at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 22nd, 2021 at 1:52 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:



Aemilius said:
May be it is just wrong, it plainly contradicts the modern view of the causes of earth quakes.

Malcolm wrote:
The four elements, as you correctly point out, are just four qualities of matter: solidity, liquidity, motility, and heat. Even consciousness, and beyond that, jñāna, have these four qualities. Everything in the universe is made of the four great elements. There is nothing that is not made of the four great elements.

Queequeg said:
Does this mean mind is matter?

Malcolm wrote:
It means that matter is derived from mind. But I forgot to include, this is the great perfection understanding of the elements. Simply put, the four or five elements are experienced in their gross form only because sentient beings do not recognize the four or five elements in their true form, as the five lights* of the five pristine consciousnesses (ye shes, jñāna).



*Do confused this light with photons. Despite having no mass or charge, photons are compounded entities and can be created and destroyed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 22nd, 2021 at 1:40 AM
Title: Re: Music time
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 22nd, 2021 at 1:15 AM
Title: Re: Shitro mantra... Where does it first appear?
Content:
conebeckham said:
Isn't the Rulu Mantra found in Yangdak Thuk---or are those later than the Guhyagarbha?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and more or less contemporary.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 11:48 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
"When a great wind amidst the ākāśa disturbs the water, a flood follows. The flood disturbs the entire earth and it shakes."

How does this line up? If the water is lava, what is the wind? Keep in mind, whatever the wind is, it must also be the support of the water.

Aemilius said:
May be it is just wrong, it plainly contradicts the modern view of the causes of earth quakes.

Malcolm wrote:
The four elements, as you correctly point out, are just four qualities of matter: solidity, liquidity, motility, and heat. Even consciousness, and beyond that, jñāna, have these four qualities. Everything in the universe is made of the four great elements. There is nothing that is not made of the four great elements.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 8:59 PM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:
Queequeg said:
To the point saying they are different streams somewhat confusing. I imagine stream here is a translation of a specific term?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, rgyud, saṃtāna.

When we are alive, the body and mind are inseparable; but when we die, its really the body that dies, it loses its integrity, while the mind continues on its merry way in samsara, taking up another body. Of course, there is really never a time that the mind is without A body, it is just not always with this present body.

Queequeg said:
Where can I find explanations of this process? Abhidarmakosa?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and BITL.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 10:59 AM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:
tobes said:
I hope this intra-tradition dialogue continues.

I think that Pali canon scholar-practitioners such as Analayo and Bodhi have been pretty good at finding points of continuity with the Mahayana, whilst respecting the differences. It is good for us Mahayanists to do the same.

Malcolm wrote:
Well of course, we have the same teacher, we just follow a broader set of his teachings. The question has never been what we accept, it’s always been what teachings we follow that they accept.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 6:44 AM
Title: Re: Shitro mantra... Where does it first appear?
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
The "RULU" mantra in Guhyagarbha is not the same as appears in Shitro.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure it is, I looked it up in Tibetan, ཨོྃ་རུ་ལུ་རུ་ལུ་ཧཱུྃ་བྷྱོ་ཧཱུྃ, gsang ba'i snying po de kho na nyid nges pa'i bla ma chen po, f. 55a.

Crazywisdom said:
Interesting. It's not in either translation. But ok.thanks. And your referring to the Guhyagarbha Tantra and not an explanatory tanta or supplementary tantra, right? And is it presented as the main recitation mantra? Is there any other, namely the bija?

Malcolm wrote:
It’s in the large tantra, it’s the same text, but expanded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 5:52 AM
Title: Re: Music time
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Fun story. Roger Miller of Mission of Burma came to one of my shows back in 1983 or so. I had my synth set in such way that is was causing subsonic vibrations in the building, shaking the whole building. He left and listened to the show from across the street during my set.

Heh.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 5:49 AM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
Worms from a local bait shop are often a good bet.

Malcolm wrote:
Little known fact: earthworms, in North America, are an invasive species that changed the character of North American forests by consuming fallen leaves, eliminating the habitat of many plants.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
Toenail said:
African crickets?

Malcolm wrote:
Are they from Germany?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 4:06 AM
Title: Re: Sensory deprivation/float tanks
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Regardless of who actually first synthesized it from ergot, gathered from rye, I believe; there’s this:

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, the MK Ultra program is well known.

https://www.history.com/topics/us-government/history-of-mk-ultra

LSD is synthesized from rye ergot, so it has a natural source. But rye ergot is poisonous. LSD is not, no matter how much one ingests.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/epgebm/ergot-fungus-psychedelic-lsd-witchcraft

Personally, I find such drugs boring. I've done them all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
Toenail said:
What about buying crickets and shit in the pet store and freeing them? I do that in the summer. Also bad?

Malcolm wrote:
If they are native to your region, no problem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: Sensory deprivation/float tanks
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Lsd/acid is manufactured or contrived (and not surprisingly was developed by government).

Malcolm wrote:
No, it was developed by accident, by Swiss chemist named Albert Hoffman at Sandoz, who discovered its properties by accident in 1943, resulting in the famous bicycle trip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Discovery

My favorite LSD video from the 1950's, the housewife:



Best line: "If you can't see it, you'll just never know it. I feel sorry for you."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 2:43 AM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:
Queequeg said:
To the point saying they are different streams somewhat confusing. I imagine stream here is a translation of a specific term?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, rgyud, saṃtāna.

When we are alive, the body and mind are inseparable; but when we die, its really the body that dies, it loses its integrity, while the mind continues on its merry way in samsara, taking up another body. Of course, there is really never a time that the mind is without A body, it is just not always with this present body.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 12:31 AM
Title: Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.
Content:
yagmort said:
well, i thought as much, but that begs the question of how many cycles are actually available for an english-speaking western practitioner?

Malcolm wrote:
There are endless terma cycles of Dzogchen out there, but in they do nothing more than repeat what is in the 17 tantras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 12:17 AM
Title: Re: Shitro mantra... Where does it first appear?
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
The "RULU" mantra in Guhyagarbha is not the same as appears in Shitro.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure it is, I looked it up in Tibetan, ཨོྃ་རུ་ལུ་རུ་ལུ་ཧཱུྃ་བྷྱོ་ཧཱུྃ, gsang ba'i snying po de kho na nyid nges pa'i bla ma chen po, f. 55a.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 21st, 2021 at 12:09 AM
Title: Re: HHDL on Satipatthana
Content:
Queequeg said:
In the first video, HHDL states that the mind and body are distinct streams.

Can someone please explain this duality? This duality suggests that there is a deeper paradigm in which mind and body are distinctions. What is that deeper paradigm?

Malcolm wrote:
It is based on the fact that the mind leaves this body at death.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 20th, 2021 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:
Zhen Li said:
Prayer flags are chump change when it comes to China's role in environmental destruction and the taking of animal life.

Malcolm wrote:
He is making a different point, he is claiming these practices do not yield the promised benefits (and in the case of prayer flags, do not even have a Buddhist origin), that the pursuit of them robs poor Tibetans of money better spent elsewhere, and so on, that practices like life ransom (srog bslu), in the manner in which it is pursued in Tibet, is harmful to the rivers and streams of Tibet through the introduction of invasive species from China, and that the push towards vegetarianism is a result of the undue influence of Chinese Buddhism, which comes at the expense of the health of Tibetan people, who have traditionally enjoyed a diet high in dairy and meat.


Frankly, I don't approve of the practice of life release. It is generally practiced without thought of the consequences for the local environment:

In Asian Buddhist societies, life release has led to significant ecological harm when invasive species, parasites and disease are introduced to wild populations of animals. It has led to the introduction of American bullfrogs in China and tilapia and red-eared sliders, a species of turtle, in Taiwan, according to the Society for Conservation Biology.

The practice has also caused problems outside of Asia. In 2017, two Buddhists from London were fined a total of £28,000 (about $36,000) after pleading guilty to illegally releasing more than 700 non-native crabs and lobsters into the Atlantic Ocean off the English coast, according to the Guardian.

https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/Buddhist-life-release-ritual-complicates-13601643.php

If people who did these things did so in a thoughtful manner, I be less opposed, but most people do it out of idiot compassion, not understanding the wider impacts of their desire to accumulate merit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 20th, 2021 at 1:17 PM
Title: Re: Criticism of Prayer Flags, Treasure Vases, etc.
Content:


Zhen Li said:
….whose role is essentially promoting ethnic integration of China's minorities into Mandarin culture and promoting ethnic propaganda.

Malcolm wrote:
This is false. I know Thubten Phunstog personally. He is a Tibetan nationalist. He is not a propagandist at all. He is not criticizing these practices per se, he is criticizing  how they are exploited by fake lamas in Tibet.

Like many modern Tibetans, he takes a critical view of institutional Buddhism in Tibet. He is quite expert in Tibetan medicine, history, and so on. He also understand the Chinese are not going anywhere, so like many of his contemporaries he advocates for modernization in Tibet, which is still quite underdeveloped.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 20th, 2021 at 10:59 AM
Title: Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The Vima Nyinthig is four volumes of dense and difficult material.

yagmort said:
how much of it strictly practice-related?

Malcolm wrote:
About 70 percent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 20th, 2021 at 4:36 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
heart said:
Seems to me that everyone think they know what rigpa is these days...

Malcolm wrote:
Sadly, this is true.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 20th, 2021 at 3:50 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
[

As the OP points out, it is a little strange to immediately jump on people with interest in the teachings because they do not understand a fraught and contradictory situation such as the abundance of openly available texts they aren't supposed to read.

Malcolm wrote:
The OP's post showed they are already heading down the wrong path. They're already convinced they know what "rig pa" is.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Having been in the position myself, I sympathize with new people who come here with interest in the teachings and then feel like they basically get scolded for their questions.

Malcolm wrote:
They weren't scolded for their questions, they were scolded for their presumptions. Just try telling ChNN that you already know what "rig pa" is when you have not even had any kind of Vajrayāna teachings at all and just read a couple of very general books that are decades old.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 20th, 2021 at 3:18 AM
Title: Re: Alpha waves
Content:
avatamsaka3 said:
Scientific research has shown that meditation (any kind?) produces alpha waves...

Malcolm wrote:
These kinds of studies are often not well designed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 20th, 2021 at 2:42 AM
Title: Re: nyingma lineages/cycles structures of practice.
Content:
yagmort said:
vima nyingthig

Malcolm wrote:
The Vima Nyinthig is four volumes of dense and difficult material.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 20th, 2021 at 2:32 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
Yes, it’s a confusing situation with people getting all fire and brimstone even though there are so many openly published texts, it is a bit surreal and you have come up against the absurd incongruity of the situation, forcing you to make some kind of decision for your practice. It is silly in many ways, I agree. It is the reality of our circumstances though.

Malcolm wrote:
No one is getting all fire and brimstone. What I am saying is factual and is based on the benefit of the OP, whether he or she is capable of understanding that or not.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I have said in another thread that I thought either publishers need to be a lot more careful, or we are just living in a different situation now where it is not always possible to do what we are ‘supposed to’. I have looked at a number of texts that were restricted to me before I even knew they were.

Malcolm wrote:
Innocently stumbling onto a text is quite different than reading things one ought not read. But once one knows what one ought not read, well, then you know.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Still, the best approach is to take Dzogchen seriously and consider the advice to at least be careful about what one exposes themselves to without guidance, without getting neurotic or worrying unnecessarily in the manner often preferred by orthodoxy;)

Malcolm wrote:
It is preferred by the guardians. There is nothing to be worried about. The requirement is simple. Don't read what you don't have transmission to read.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 20th, 2021 at 1:58 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:


Lingpupa said:
The idea that by even looking at written dzogchen texts before we have received "pointing out" (and I think the OP pointed out how flimsy that sometimes is as a "qualification") we will cut ourselves off from ever being able to practice meditation or dzogchen is, imho, an idea for the spiritually immature.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, immature (ma smin pa) people who have not been matured (smin pa) though empowerment and received the liberating instructions shouldn't read Vajrayāna texts at all, let alone Dzogchen texts. What my teachers have stressed about Dzogchen teachings, especially Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, is that one is at risk of blocking one's path by reading material for which one does not have the transmission. Longchenpa is quite explicit about the need for secrecy in Dzogchen teachings. If one doesn't want to follow his advice, then whose advice should one follow? This does not mean that Dzogchen is secret like a top secret document. It means that it should only be approached in the proper way to ensure the integrity of the lineage. Included in that proper way are not reading texts for which one does not have the appropriate level of transmission. It's a rule I have followed all of my life.

Lingpupa said:
That's what I mean by being grown-up about these things. It does not include a retreat into dogmatism or into a childish fear of reading something that will ruin our progress for this life and perhaps more to come.

Malcolm wrote:
People do ruin their progress for life. There are whole public forums filled with people talking about Vajrayāna and Dzogchen who have blocked their progress for life because of the extreme depth of their misconceptions.

Lingpupa said:
The warning about reading texts for which we are not qualified or prepared has merit, of course, but there is no need to get crazy about it.

Malcolm wrote:
No, we should just be serious about it, as it is a serious matter, and there are consequences for one's path when one makes light of such warnings or disregards them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 20th, 2021 at 12:25 AM
Title: Re: Shitro mantra... Where does it first appear?
Content:
Crazywisdom said:
I'm speaking of the mantras of the peaceful and wrathful mandalas. In which text do they first appear?

Malcolm wrote:
The rulu mantra appears in Guhyagarbha and some others translated during the imperial period. Based on a limited preliminary survey, looks like the bodhicitta mantra first appears in the treasures of Nyang ral Nyima Ozer, so late 12th century. However, Nyangral was famous for finding old tantras that were translated during the imperial period and rehabilitating them. Text criticism only gets one so far.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 11:09 PM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:
Varis said:
Why didn't the Tibetan and Chinese disciples of the Indian panditas manage to maintain Sanskrit as the language of practice and study?

Malcolm wrote:
Sanskrit studies were at a pretty high level until 15th century in Tibet, but tapered off as contact with Indian panditas waned.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
sokol said:
The prevailing tone here has not been entirely inviting or encouraging to get any deeper (with few notable exceptions, thank you guys).

Malcolm wrote:
There is only one way to get deeper, and you have been advised upon how to do that.



sokol said:
By the way curious fact and maybe something worth considering: the only way I got to know part of the content of the Six Lamps, Twenty-One Nails and some other parts of Zhang Zhung NyenGyud for instance, that as someone here informed me are forbidden "to even look at" without transmission ( additionally suggesting that I am a "fool" and a "thief" having done so) is through quotations in a book by Geshe Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche, that has been prefaced and recommended to anyone by other high Dzogczen authorities and HH Dalai Lama himself – and there hasn't been a single mention about a need for formal authorisation to read it throughout the book.

Malcolm wrote:
The whole of Zhang Zhung snyan rgyud is samaya restricted, as are all texts and commentaries on Dzogchen. Sure, there are a few popular books out there that discuss Dzogchen view, and so on, but these contain virtually nothing of the actual instructions of Dzogchen practice. The books that are out there, like Achard's Six Lamps, and so on, are all published in order to provide practitioners with access to primary source material. Even then, they are not very useful without someone to explain them.

sokol said:
Not a warm welcome to say the least.

Malcolm wrote:
The welcome you received was in response to the tone of your greeting. Some of us have been practicing these teachings for three decades and moreover, read Tibetan and have clocked many hours sitting at the feet of such masters as Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, and so on. Making statements like "I am intimately familiar with rigpa (in my own spontaneus way)" is laughable from someone who has never sat and received Dzogchen teachings.

As for calling you a fool and thief, I didn't call you either thing. I said, "Reading Dzogchen texts, and other tantric texts without transmission is indeed worthless, improper, and condemned in those very texts themselves. Only fools ignore this" and "Do not read Dzogchen books prior to having received transmission and instruction. Otherwise, you are being a thief of the teachings. This is very negative."

As for the first statement, this is because no one these days can understand Dzogchen teachings immediately, even with proper transmission. Not even Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche understood the meaning of Dzogchen immediately.  Before he met his root guru, he had thirteen Dzogchen teachers and had received the whole tradition of Buddhist Dzogchen teachings. It was only when he sat with Rigzin Changchub Dorje that he understand the real meaning of Dzogchen teachings. As for the second statement, Dzogchen teachings are guarded by very powerful guardians. While some claim the Bonpos assert their guardians have loosened restrictions on Dzogchen teachings, this is not the case with Buddhist Dzogchen teachings. There are no lineage masters of Buddhist Dzogchen teachings who can loosen such restrictions, because the last lineage holder of Dzogchen teachings was Longchen Rabjam, and there won't be another one for thousands of years. Thus, since the guardians are the owners of the teachings, one who transgresses the seal of secrecy placed on Dzogchen teachings risks their wrath.

While it is often said that Dzogchen is the teaching for this age, for many reasons, this does not mean that people can just do what they like with them. The integrity of Dzogchen teachings is maintained through respecting the methods of transmission and promulgation of Dzogchen teachings described in the Dzogchen tantras themselves and the commentaries on them by ancient masters such as Vimalamitra, and so on. You haven't even begun to learn about such things because you have no teacher.

You are confused because some teachers like my guru, Tenzin Wangyal, HH Dalai Lama, and so on, have published some books that are "open," meaning that they describe a little bit about the Dzogchen teaching. But actually, they really do not say very much at all. They offer only a glimpse for the curious, nothing more.

So if you are actually interested in becoming a practitioner of Dzogchen, rather than just adding to the collection of spiritual teachings you have gathered, develop some humility, go find a qualified teacher of Dzogchen, and listen more than you talk.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 9:41 PM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Ritual is not a prominent part of Dzogchen teachings.

sokol said:
So I thought

Malcolm wrote:
Ritual isn’t, but the necessity for empowerment and instruction is. There are also Dzogchen preliminary practices, which are indispensable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 11:00 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
tingdzin said:
Ideally, traditionally, these instructions would be granted to an individual or in a very small group of disciples who were personally well known to the teacher. In this way, the teacher could be sure that the student was ready to receive and seriously practice them.

Charlie123 said:
Is this actually true? For example, reading the bio of ChNN's uncle, Togden Orgyen Tenzin, it seems pretty clear that TOT mostly received instructions from Adzom Drukpa in large groups and had very little face time with AD. I can think of a few other examples.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 10:07 AM
Title: Re: In regards to meditation (feeling like on the outside)
Content:
undefineable said:
No experience of sunyata?

Well yeah, that's going to leave one confused (with regard to the definition of sunyata) past one point or another, but then it's accepted that this experience only comes after a lot of experience and progress in meditation.

Malcolm wrote:
Progress in meditation is measured by a reduction in conceptuality.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 9:55 AM
Title: Re: In regards to meditation (feeling like on the outside)
Content:


undefineable said:
And yes, the 'essencelessness' of phenomena (sunyata?) is harder to grasp than the 'essencelessness' of apparent objects (anatta?), and I can't claim to have got there myself. Even at an academic level, the language is always confusing when taken out of context by people unfamiliar with the concepts..

Malcolm wrote:
It’s mainly confusing to people who have too many concepts and no experience.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 9:31 AM
Title: Re: is the date of losar based on kalachakra?
Content:
Toenail said:
Isn't that an obstacle year for you then?

Malcolm wrote:
According to one belief system, yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 2:41 AM
Title: Re: is the date of losar based on kalachakra?
Content:
Nemo said:
The last water tiger year was something. First live trans-Atlantic television signal, First Beatles single "Love Me Do" released, Oral Polio Vaccine used to combat Polio, Marilyn Monroe is found dead, Cuban Missile Crisis takes world to brink of nuclear war,...

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and I was born. It was definitely something.

Nemo said:
It's late this year. March 3rd. Hopefully omicron has burnt out by then and we can have a normal celebration.

Malcolm wrote:
No chance.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
sokol said:
Why I kept discussing this beyond the first post and your initial answers was rather to get a better picture of how it all works for people here that do follow the Dzogchen path to the letter, to form a better picture about how prominent the ritual side of this tradition really is and to search if there is a way for me to work within this tradition that doesn't go against my gut feeling discussed above.

Malcolm wrote:
You cannot expect the tradition to adapt to you. Instead you have to adapt to the tradition.

Read Crystal and the Way of Light, by my root guru, the late Chogyal Namkhai Norbu.

Ritual is not a prominent part of Dzogchen teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 12:22 AM
Title: Re: is the date of losar based on kalachakra?
Content:
Toenail said:
Is the calculation of the losar date based or described in Kalachakra?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, calendars in Tibetan Buddhism are calculated on the basis of instructions found in the Vimalaprabha commentary of Kalacakra, of which there are two systems: Phukluk, followed by most schools; and Tsurluk, followed by Karma Kagyu. The latter places new years one month prior to the former.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 19th, 2021 at 12:18 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
sokol said:
The real ultimate guidance however, which you will obviously all agree about is beyond human, beyond our ideas about paths etc. The living awareness we all parttake in.

Malcolm wrote:
As long as you have this perennialist idea, you will never understand Dzogchen. There is no awareness in which we all partake. In fact, Dzogchen explicitly rejects this idea as eternalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 18th, 2021 at 11:44 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Aemilius said:
"Land rests on water" in the sense that the earth's inner core is liquid.

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely not. Land rests on water in the sense that continents are surrounded by oceans. You are forgetting the water rests on fire, fire rests on air, etc. The ancients had no idea of an inner core, nor that the world was round, not even the egg cosmologies state this.


Aemilius said:
I think the Mt Meru -cosmology is much older than Iron-Age...

Malcolm wrote:
Axial mountain cosmology is certainly quite ancient. You should examine Witzel's The Origins of the World's Mythologies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 18th, 2021 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Aemilius said:
The things that Mahadeva made public agree with the Lotus Sutra, i.e. that the attainments of the Sravakas had turned out to be impermanent and illusory.  And the majority of the Sangha knew it, and accepted it as an undeniable fact.

Malcolm wrote:
Not permanent and illusory, merely that some arhats could fall back into the state of being never returners, but inevitably, they attain arhatship.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 18th, 2021 at 11:36 PM
Title: Re: Regarding Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö (No Debates Please)
Content:


Gaden_Wangchuk said:
To your second point and out of curiosity, does raising hell here mean bring public attention to the bad behavior of a teacher?

Malcolm wrote:
In general, yes, it means not bring public attention to what one perceives as the negative behavior of a teacher with whom one has entered into samaya. Criticizing them for their drinking habits, drug habits, spending habits, eating habits, personal habits, social habits and skills, and so on, is really not permissible. Of course, if they are not your teacher, you can criticize them for these issues as much as you like, with the caveat that you may be criticizing a bodhisattva.

This does not apply, however, in case where the teacher has themselves utterly broken their samaya with their students, where they have actually harmed the lives and health of their students, which is quite another thing. In this case, no obligation exists between teacher and and of their students. [And please, peanut gallery, refrain from the Tilopa-Naropa anecdotes].

Gaden_Wangchuk said:
This seems like a very confusing area, so if there are more resources I'll have to learn more and look elsewhere on the forums like I mentioned. It's also not the main topic of this thread, so I will make that my last question on that aspect of samaya and teacher/student relationships.

Malcolm wrote:
The best thing to do, in the beginning, is to choose well-known teachers with proven track records over many years.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 18th, 2021 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: Regarding Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö (No Debates Please)
Content:


zerwe said:
In reading this thread one question does come to mind. If you politely step away from said teacher, then should you no longer engage in the practices you have received?

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, unless you have received them from other teachers as well, in whom you have faith and confidence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 18th, 2021 at 8:25 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
Inge said:
does one need lung for every text?

Malcolm wrote:
Ideally one does.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 18th, 2021 at 6:31 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
sokol said:
I do make it a point to keep my mind open ...and that exactly is why I don't let myself simply decide to arbitraly embark on a chosen structuralised path (with its powerful rituals as is the case) because -as you yourself said - on the base of which certain standard could I possibly evaluate it as good for me to take.

Malcolm wrote:
The most important choice is making one's choice of a guru. It is not a light choice, and qualified gurus who can actually teach Dzogchen are vanishing rapidly, there are virtually none under sixty that I know of personally, and not very many above sixty left either.

Of course, there are many qualified lamas who can give this "Dzogchen" empowerment and that empowerment, but teaching Dzogchen is something very specific, and has very little to do with practicing mantras and getting involved with complicated tantric systems, per se.

There is a lot of hanging out the tail of white deer to sell venison, and sending off the customer with a packet of horse meat. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu used to complain about this all the time. In other words, there are a number of teachers who advertise themselves as Dzogchen teachers, who are really are guilty of false advertising and worse.

Caveat emptor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 18th, 2021 at 6:16 AM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:


treehuggingoctopus said:
I do not understand either.

Malcolm wrote:
I am sure this person is participating through google translate. "Basic lama" = root guru.

He is claiming that root gurus are basically prostitutes who are only your friend for $$$


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 18th, 2021 at 1:03 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Shinjin said:
Is the Mahayana cosmology more "scientific" than the hinayana one? Your thoughts?

Malcolm wrote:
It is more cosmic and expansive.

Shinjin said:
I will give it a read if it isn't too long.

Malcolm wrote:
It is very long.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 11:32 PM
Title: Re: Regarding Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö (No Debates Please)
Content:
Gaden_Wangchuk said:
Inquiring about a teacher (post empowerment) can be considered as such?

Malcolm wrote:
Depends, you should have made your inquiries before receiving samayas.


Gaden_Wangchuk said:
So, and this is in general and not pertaining to my original question, if a teacher does commit a scandal, then those students who renounce that teacher break samaya?

Malcolm wrote:
That depends on how they go about it. If they leave quietly, no. If they raise hell and cause a scandal themselves, then yes, it is bad for all involved.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 11:24 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Shinjin said:
First time I heard this. What is the difference?

Malcolm wrote:
Avatamsaka gives the Mahayana cosmology.

Shinjin said:
Is the Mahayana cosmology more "scientific" than the hinayana one? Your thoughts?

Malcolm wrote:
It is more cosmic and expansive.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 10:20 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?

Malcolm wrote:
There are two basic Buddhist cosmologies: Hinayāna and Mahāyāna. Which one do you mean?

Shinjin said:
First time I heard this. What is the difference?

Malcolm wrote:
Avatamsaka gives the Mahayana cosmology.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 10:15 AM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:


Zhen Li said:
My approach is, take the claims of all seriously, evaluate them for their merits, and decide on the course of action in this life that gets you to Buddhahood the fastest. Buddhahood or bust, otherwise we're just messing around and will end up right where we started.

Malcolm wrote:
If that were true, you would already be a Dzogchen practitioner. Just sayin….


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 6:14 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
sokol said:
The question probably is: where would you look for a teacher that makes sure I respect Dzogchen tradition...

Malcolm wrote:
There is only one way to respect Dzogchen tradition, which is to follow it in the proper way.

sokol said:
guides me to study these texts with necessary respect but doesn't insist on me devoting myself to orthodox, tantric ways from the start?

Malcolm wrote:
Such a teacher is not a teacher who is teaching Dzogchen in a correct way. You cannot study these texts without transmission. Transmission comes with responsibilities. There is no authentic teacher of Dzogchen who will permit you to read these texts without proper transmission. That means receiving empowerment, the reading transmission for the text you want to practice or study, and the instruction on that text, called wang, lung, and tri.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 4:01 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
sokol said:
thanks for replies everyone!
Well, from my own recent  experience I certainly wouldn't say the uninitiated reading of these text is worthless. Quite the contrary - even the little I did glimpse of some of these texts that I got -  before realizing their possibly restricted status- has proven extremely useful in bringing some clarity where I really needed it and thus getting me a step closer to freedom. Do consider.

Sherab Rigdrol said:
You are conceptualizing your meditative experiences and equating them with what you are reading in dzogchen texts. This is the #1 reason why people should NOT read dzogchen texts without a teacher and transmission.  Throw your experiences away, find a teacher, receive transmission, ask them what you should read and go from there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 3:50 AM
Title: Re: Regarding Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö (No Debates Please)
Content:
Gaden_Wangchuk said:
I've attended sessions and empowerments with this teacher,

Malcolm wrote:
You've already taken empowerments with this person. You've sealed the deal. All you are going to do is wind up breaking your samaya if continue down this path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 3:40 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
sokol said:
Well, from my own recent  experience I certainly wouldn't say the uninitiated reading of these text is worthless.


Malcolm wrote:
Worse than useless. You don't know what you are reading.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 3:18 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
gelukman said:
According you.

Malcolm wrote:
Not according to me. According to the tantras, like the Self-Arisen Vidyā Tantra, the commentary tantra of the utterly secret unsurpassed cycle:

“The faults of not obtaining the empowerment are as follows: In the
bardo one is alarmed, panicked, exhausted, impeded, and one can also
lose consciousness.

“While one has not yet left the body of traces, migrating beings will
not see one as worthy of respect. One’s merit will be small, one’s life
short, one’s enjoyments of living will be few, one will be powerless, and
many obstacles will occur. Nothing will be accomplished. Those are
the faults of not obtaining the empowerment for the conduct of secret
mantra. A yogin of secret mantra conduct must first obtain empowerment.


gelukman said:
But many give dzogchen teachings freely on the internet

Malcolm wrote:
In this case, they are acting as teachers.

gelukman said:
and through books.

Malcolm wrote:
Qualified practitioners need access to books.

gelukman said:
And you have your self published dzogchen books too.

Malcolm wrote:
And they all say, as in the Introduction to Tantra Without Syllables:

Only someone who has obtained the necessary empowerments and reading transmissions is qualified to study these texts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 3:05 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
gelukman said:
You still need to practice and study.

Malcolm wrote:
One should not read Dzogchen texts without guidance of teacher, one should not even look at them. There is plenty to study and practice in sūtra without reading restricted texts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
gelukman said:
You have right to be in the "natural state". You can practice mindfullness,

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but without a teacher there is no Dzogchen to speak of. One cannot introduce themselves to Dzogchen. It is impossible. The Dzogchen tantras themselves assert that this is the case. A book cannot introduce one to Dzogchen, etc. Claiming otherwise is irresponsible, basically, one is breaking samaya to make a claim that one can study and practice Dzogchen without a guru, on one's own, from a book. Worse, one is encouraging others to travel down a false path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 2:33 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:
sokol said:
My question now concerns their possibly restricted status – I've seen it written in a few places that the Great Completion tantras can only be read after receiving and appropriate personal transmission from a qualified teacher.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. That is the correct way. Find a teacher to study under. Do not read Dzogchen books prior to having received transmission and instruction. Otherwise, you are being a thief of the teachings. This is very negative.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 2:28 AM
Title: Re: restricted texts
Content:


gelukman said:
Your reading is not worthless...dont believe the jealous etc....

Malcolm wrote:
Reading Dzogchen texts, and other tantric texts without transmission is indeed worthless, improper, and condemned in those very texts themselves. Only fools ignore this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 17th, 2021 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Aemilius said:
There is a Vinaya rule against boasting about one's spiritual accomplishments or spiritual experiences.

Malcolm wrote:
This applies only to the ordianed and is probably at the root of the śrāvaka notion that anyone who attains stream entry and does not ordain within seven days, dies.

Anders said:
[pedantry]Arhatship, not stream entry.[/pedantry]

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, my bad.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 16th, 2021 at 9:27 PM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:
2ndchance said:
Someone I know is desperately searching for such a Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teacher to be engaged on an extremely long-term basis and He has more than enough financial resources to pay for it.

PeterC said:
Maybe others are being too polite to say this, but a lama isn't like a coach that you hire.  Of course lamas need money because everyone needs money.  But an approach like "hey I'm rich go find me a personal tutor for this" is going to be a bit offensive to any teacher of the Dharma of any nationality.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s only a matter of time before the “lama as life coach” becomes a thing, complete with branding and guest appearances on Oprah.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 16th, 2021 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Nadereme said:
Because many are still vexed in materialist views and think science is somehow superior.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no, we think that Buddhist epistemology should be taken seriously. The latter depends on valid direct perception and inference. If you can prove through valid direct perception and inference there is a Mt. Meru out there, I am all ears.

Aemilius said:
The main point in Buddhists cosmology is that the three worlds and six or five worlds where being reincarnate exist. Neither does science take them to be reality, why is that? Why do scientists not perceive these worlds?

Malcolm wrote:
Beings in lower realms are incapable of seeing the beings in the higher planes of existence, for example, desire realm devas are incapable of perceiving form realm devas and so on. You can read this in chapter four of the koshabhasyam.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 16th, 2021 at 10:14 AM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:


Zhen Li said:
Granted. Still there's a lot of Tibetan Vajrayāna supremacy in Buddhist studies, which is a big part of why Newar Buddhism has been overlooked, despite the fact that it's very much not merely a museum, but a changing and evolving tradition. It's interesting that effectively the study of Buddhism in the west effectively got its first major push from Nepel with Brian Hodgson and Eugène Burnouf, but most of the tradition still remains sidelined in scholarship on Vajrayana Buddhism in India (Davidson's book comes to mind).

Malcolm wrote:
That’s largely because it is caste restricted. Newars who are serious about practicing Vajrayana seek out Tibetan gurus, because the Vajracaryas don’t teach outside their clique.

Zhen Li said:
In cases where this happens, they usually maintain a Vajrācārya as the family priest and seek teachings from the lama for personal practice. Of course, there are also non-Vajrācāryas Newars who have become lamas, some of whom in turn serve in that capacity for other non-Vajrācāryas. Some non-Newars (and a few Newars too) follow a member of the Rana family who became a rinpoche. The main thing is, lamas cannot really do Newar lifecycle rites, so even those who are really into Tibetan Buddhism need to have a Vajrācārya family priest. Anyway, things are changing gradually, as I mentioned, and it is conceivable that eventually people without Vajrācārya parents could be given acāryābhiṣekha, but yes, if someone is interested in practising Newar Buddhism, at least for now, it's going to exclude esoteric practices and essentially be exoteric Mahāyāna with a few exoteric vajrayāna elements thrown in. Frankly, I think a lot of Śākyas prefer it the way it is because they don't have to learn all the procedures personally, they can just sponsor a guru to do it and due to the saṃkalpa they still get all the benefits.

Malcolm wrote:
So, you’ve basically ceded my point. Tibet is the place that preserved and the depth and breadth of the Indian Vajrayana tradition. People who are interested in practicing Vajrayana will naturally seek out Tibetan teachers or teachers in this tradition. No other tradition is as complete.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 16th, 2021 at 9:05 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
tobes said:
No one can avoid Gadamer...

Malcolm wrote:
We can completely ignore that, at least I have. Gadamer has zero influence on my work. I just don't cotton to Spenglarian interpretations of culture and history.

We work from commentaries and just translate what the texts actually say, as best we can. That's a function of understanding both the context and grammar of the source language, as well as being able to compose adequate sentences in the target language. Everything else is extraneous to that.

You can examine my work for yourself.

No translation is perfect, of course. But we do not need to pile theories upon theories, particularly by people who never did any serious translation work in their entire lives.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 10:36 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
nyonchung said:
this was arriving in the Western Continent of endless riches, Balanchö

Malcolm wrote:
They didn't go far enough west, that's America.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 10:29 PM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:


Pero said:
Strange point to bring up when it says Tibetan Buddhist in the title of the topic which is also in the Tibetan Buddhism forum.

fckw said:
Yeah, it's really odd that the person does only bother about Tibetan explicitly, and does not seem to bother about any other language spoken, read or written by Vajrayana Buddhists throughout history, like Sanskrit, Zhang Zhung. Chinese, Japanese and quite a few others. Nor for Indian Vajrayana masters who never traveled to Tibet and did not speak the language. But then again, it indeed is the "Tibetan Buddhism" subforum, so it's obvious to all of us that any discussions around other forms of Vajrayana (much less so: other forms of Buddhism!) are not to be expected here, are they?

Tata1 said:
Good way of making a simple, straight foward thread, of someone asking help with a very specific question, go off topic. Whats the necessity of posting this kind of thing?

Malcolm wrote:
Shits and giggles, I think.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 9:13 PM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:


tobes said:
I think that Heidegger's big contribution was to hermeneutics, and in fact it has become so naturalised that we may utilise it without even realising. Malcolm, as a translator - I wonder if 'text critical' methods would have even arisen without H?

Malcolm wrote:
FFS, modern hermeneutics begin with Schleiermacher, and text critical methodology predates H by centuries, originating during the Enlightenment, in the West. Also Tsongkhapa, Buton, Ngorchen, and so on were astute text critical scholars, who needed to wade through multiple translations and compare them. And H’s Ancient Greek was a pretense.and let’s not even begin to discuss Vasubandhu, Candrakirti, and so on, who all were astute text critical scholars and practitioners of hermeneutics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 9:04 PM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:


Zhen Li said:
It is also quite demeaning to those who actually practice, or sponsor these rituals (including myself), to suggest that they are just performing museum displays. What an incredibly orientalist attitude.

Malcolm wrote:
There are all kinds of museum Buddhism these days, including Tibetan monks who travel around doing mandala rites in…museums.

Zhen Li said:
Granted. Still there's a lot of Tibetan Vajrayāna supremacy in Buddhist studies, which is a big part of why Newar Buddhism has been overlooked, despite the fact that it's very much not merely a museum, but a changing and evolving tradition. It's interesting that effectively the study of Buddhism in the west effectively got its first major push from Nepel with Brian Hodgson and Eugène Burnouf, but most of the tradition still remains sidelined in scholarship on Vajrayana Buddhism in India (Davidson's book comes to mind).

Malcolm wrote:
That’s largely because it is caste restricted. Newars who are serious about practicing Vajrayana seek out Tibetan gurus, because the Vajracaryas don’t teach outside their clique.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 11:42 AM
Title: Re: When are we Bodhisattvas?
Content:
Padmist said:
Is it correct then to say that as long as a Mahayana Buddhist is generating bodhichitta, they are Bodhissatva?

Malcolm wrote:
Once you generate bodhicitta you are a bodhisattva. You don’t  even really need to put much effort into bodhicitta itself. Once you have made up your mind to become a buddha to benefit others, that mind will carry you the rest of the way. But it will take a long time and require courage.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 11:36 AM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:


Zhen Li said:
It is also quite demeaning to those who actually practice, or sponsor these rituals (including myself), to suggest that they are just performing museum displays. What an incredibly orientalist attitude.

Malcolm wrote:
There are all kinds of museum Buddhism these days, including Tibetan monks who travel around doing mandala rites in…museums.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 11:16 AM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:


Varis said:
Newar Vajrayana uses Sanskrit as a liturgical language. And AFAIK there's been a few Westerners initiated in it. Difficult to access, yes, but not impossible.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not the same, that’s like saying the Latin Mass still exists and a few old fogies converse in Latin at the Vatican.

Zhen Li said:
The comparison is not accurate. Latin mass is now performed only by a minority, whereas all vajrācāryas use only Sanskrit for ritual and recitation. Newar is only used for popular Buddhist songs sung outside of formal rituals. Even the Newar laity uses Sanskrit at home for daily recitation.

Malcolm wrote:
I lived with a Newar family for some years, I know exactly what they do. They recite rituals In Sanskrit, like Brahmins. The Vajracaryas, a restricted cast in Nepal, are a fast dying tradition. At this point, it’s practically museum Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 10:47 AM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is no living tradition of Vajrayāna in Sanskrit anymore.

Varis said:
Newar Vajrayana uses Sanskrit as a liturgical language. And AFAIK there's been a few Westerners initiated in it. Difficult to access, yes, but not impossible.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not the same, that’s like saying the Latin Mass still exists and a few old fogies converse in Latin at the Vatican.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 10:31 AM
Title: Re: When are we Bodhisattvas?
Content:
Padmist said:
When do we become Bodhisattvas?

Can we be Bodhisattvas in this life?

Is this something that you can confirm (to yourself) or confirmed by others that you are one?

or are our actions in this life a preparation for our Bodhisattva path in the next lives?

Malcolm wrote:
The first moment we develop bodhicitta.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 10:10 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
Queequeg said:
White people take everything in the end. LOL

Malcolm wrote:
That’s what they said about the Romans.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 10:01 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood In This Life
Content:



climb-up said:
Yay! That means it's possible! Keeping my fingers crossed for no scheduling conflicts.

Malcolm wrote:
You have to decide what is important.


climb-up said:
Of course I do.
Accordingly, if it comes down to it I will prioritize feeding my children and keeping a roof over there head.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is how it goes. We don’t need every lung, every empowerment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 9:15 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
tobes said:
Heidegger

Malcolm wrote:
I think we can all agree Heidegger was utterly full of shit, and should be cancelled.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 9:09 AM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Not as much as you might think. For example, can you name one single major commentary translated from Japanese on Mikkyo into English?  I can’t either.

Nicholas2727 said:
I believe they teach the practices tho. But I do see your point. Are you aware of any translators focusing on Japanese Mikkyo? With Tibetan Vajrayana becoming more popular in the west I think it would be great to see the East Asian side of Vajrayana in more detail

Zhen Li said:
Rolf Giebel and Thomas Eijō Dreitlein.

Malcolm wrote:
Neither of whom have yet to produce a major translation of any significance. Not saying they won’t, but tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap…


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 9:05 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Nadereme said:
Because many are still vexed in materialist views and think science is somehow superior.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no, we think that Buddhist epistemology should be taken seriously. The latter depends on valid direct perception and inference. If you can prove through valid direct perception and inference there is a Mt. Meru out there, I am all ears.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 8:58 AM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:


Nicholas2727 said:
The two Tendai centers and the few Shingon temples seem to have access to Mikkyo no? I can't say this out of experience but the priests there were trained at Koyasan or Heizan, so it seems there is some options available for those in the west.

Malcolm wrote:
Not as much as you might think. For example, can you name one single major commentary translated from Japanese on Mikkyo into English?  I can’t either.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 6:11 AM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:


fckw said:
Gautama Buddha could not read Tibetan at all. Same is true for the majority of Buddhist masters of past and present.

Pero said:
Strange point to bring up when it says Tibetan Buddhist in the title of the topic which is also in the Tibetan Buddhism forum.

fckw said:
Yeah, it's really odd that the person does only bother about Tibetan explicitly, and does not seem to bother about any other language spoken, read or written by Vajrayana Buddhists throughout history, like Sanskrit, Zhang Zhung.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no living tradition of Vajrayāna in Sanskrit anymore. Zhangzhung is at best a faux language reconstructed out of fragments in the 11th century by a person who never spoke it (Shenchen Luga) nor knew it's grammar.

fckw said:
Chinese, Japanese and quite a few others.

Malcolm wrote:
There is so little in Western languages on Mikkyo in general, that there is really nothing to talk about. One can read a few books, learn a few prayers, but without going to Japan and living on Koyasan or Heizan, you are not going to get much.

fckw said:
Nor for Indian Vajrayana masters who never traveled to Tibet and did not speak the language.

Malcolm wrote:
Indian Vajrayāna, as a living tradition, ended in the 16th century, maybe the early 17th.

fckw said:
But then again, it indeed is the "Tibetan Buddhism" subforum, so it's obvious to all of us that any discussions around other forms of Vajrayana (much less so: other forms of Buddhism!) are not to be expected here, are they?

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, there is really is not much point because all those other traditions are either dead, faux, or inaccessible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: Western-Born (English) Tibetan Buddhist Teachers Like Alan Wallace
Content:
fckw said:
Gautama Buddha could not read Tibetan at all.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, that is certainly true, since there was no written language in Tibet at that time.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 2:25 AM
Title: Re: Sakya Pandita and medicine question.
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Well back then, Sakya Pandita could have only been talking about natural medicine (i.e. medicine that most anti-scientism people wouldn’t object to); therefore it’s kind of irrelevant.

Malcolm wrote:
No, he was talking about Tibetan Medicine and people who refuse medical treatment of any kind claiming that accepting medical treatment proved one had no faith the Buddha. Also, there are many strongly poisonous substances that can be used, treated and altered for use as medicine, no better than any modern medical poisons, from the perspective of medicines used to combat severe illnesses.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 2:19 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
Queequeg said:
No one involved there, Rittenhouse included, had the eyes McVeigh had.

Malcolm wrote:
My point was in support of your idea that there are too many guns. McVeigh was a former soldier. Rittenhouse is a puppy.



Queequeg said:
oops.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 1:29 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
Queequeg said:
No one involved there, Rittenhouse included, had the eyes McVeigh had.

Malcolm wrote:
My point was in support of your idea that there are too many guns. McVeigh was a former soldier. Rittenhouse is a puppy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 15th, 2021 at 1:01 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
Queequeg said:
All I got from it was that we have too many guns in the country.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.thetrace.org/2021/12/atf-time-to-crime-gun-data-shooting-pandemic/

Queequeg said:
ATF data shows that in 2020, police recovered almost twice as many guns with a short “time-to-crime” — in this case, guns recovered within a year of their purchase — than in 2019. Law enforcement officials generally view a short time-to-crime as an indicator that a firearm was purchased with criminal intent, since a gun with a narrow window between sale and recovery is less likely to have changed hands. Altogether, more than 87,000 such guns were recovered in 2020, almost double the previous high. And almost 68,000 guns were recovered in 2020 with a time-to-crime of less than seven months (meaning they were less likely to have been purchased the previous year).

Malcolm wrote:
This applies to the Rittenhouse case. He purchased his gun in May, 2020, and used it in a homicide in August, 2020.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 14th, 2021 at 10:47 PM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
Nemo said:
The West generally had a big economic head start from genocide, slavery, colonialism and imperialism.

tingdzin said:
China was centuries ahead of "the West" as far as genocide, colonialism, and imperialism. As for slavery, it has been almost ever-present across the world until recently.

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe Nemo is cashing in:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/13/technology/china-propaganda-youtube-influencers.html

Kirk Apesland, a Canadian living in China, calls his channel Gweilo 60. (“Gweilo” is Cantonese slang for foreigner.) He rejects news of repression in Xinjiang and cites his own happy experiences to contest the idea that China’s people are oppressed.

After The Times contacted Mr. Apesland, he posted a video titled “New York Times vs Gweilo 60.” In it, he acknowledges that he accepts free hotels and payment from city and provincial authorities. He compares it to being a pitchman for local tourism.

“Are there fees for what I do? Of course,” he says. “I’m doing a job. I’m putting the videos out to hundreds of thousands of people.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 14th, 2021 at 10:05 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood In This Life
Content:



climb-up said:
Do you know if this will be online or in person, and how long the lung takes (quite a few days presumably, right?)

Malcolm wrote:
Online, TBD.


climb-up said:
Yay! That means it's possible! Keeping my fingers crossed for no scheduling conflicts.

Malcolm wrote:
You have to decide what is important.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 14th, 2021 at 8:34 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood In This Life
Content:
Terma said:
What are the requirements to read this (and any other of Malcolm's recent Dzogchen textual translations)?

Thanks.

Malcolm wrote:
The lung, if you can get it. Tulku Dakpa periodically gives the lung for Buddhahood.

He is planning to give the lung for the seventeen Tantras sometime following Tibetan New Year, 2022.

climb-up said:
Do you know if this will be online or in person, and how long the lung takes (quite a few days presumably, right?)

Malcolm wrote:
Online, TBD.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 14th, 2021 at 7:28 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
PeterC said:
He also wasn't really a nihilist, the first few sections of Zarathustra make that very clear, he found meaning in the transformation of the individual, but he rejected finding meaning in the collective.

Malcolm wrote:
He was definitely a nihilist. His argument that the superior man was not obligated by the moral constraints imposed upon rest of us is a nihilism of narcissistic vanity.

He would be thrilled with the interpretation that some Vajrayāna wannabes promote that there are superior humans who may transgress the moral restrictions imposed on the herd because of their spiritual accomplishments.

tobes said:
I can't believe I'm here defending Nietzsche, but there's no way he's espousing nihilism…So, it is reactionary and it is aristocratic. But not nihilistic.

Malcolm wrote:
I disagree. His nihilism is evident in his moral contempt.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 14th, 2021 at 4:11 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood In This Life
Content:
ManiThePainter said:
Is it permissible to receive this lung if one has not yet received direct introduction

Malcolm wrote:
According to Rinpoche, yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 14th, 2021 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
Matt J said:
I suppose it depends on what side of Yogacara/Shentong you focus on. If you focus on the "no externality" side, you get solipsism.

But what Yogacara/Shentong presents to my mind is the basic, underlying goodness, which is about as far from PoMo as you can get. In fact, this line of teaching is often justified as a corrective to nihilistic Madyamaka misinterpretations.

Malcolm wrote:
I would argue that the present interest in Yogacāra, for example, is as much a function of the penetration of postmodernism into Buddhist studies as it is a function of increased linguistic understanding of Buddhist texts and so on. It is not an accident that in America and England, the continental fascination with yogacāra has met with quite a bit of resistance.
It's a correction without an error to correct.

But my point really is that Yogacāra offers much more of a narratology than Madhyamaka. It's loaded with many more concepts, fine distinctions, and path narratives than Mādhyamikas typically offer.

There just isn't much juice for the POMO scene to squeeze out of Madhyamaka. Madhyamaka is more akin to ordinary language philosophy than anything else in the Western scene.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 14th, 2021 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
PeterC said:
He also wasn't really a nihilist, the first few sections of Zarathustra make that very clear, he found meaning in the transformation of the individual, but he rejected finding meaning in the collective.

Malcolm wrote:
He was definitely a nihilist. His argument that the superior man was not obligated by the moral constraints imposed upon rest of us is a nihilism of narcissistic vanity.

He would be thrilled with the interpretation that some Vajrayāna wannabes promote that there are superior humans who may transgress the moral restrictions imposed on the herd because of their spiritual accomplishments.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 14th, 2021 at 2:05 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood In This Life
Content:
Terma said:
What are the requirements to read this (and any other of Malcolm's recent Dzogchen textual translations)?

Thanks.

Malcolm wrote:
The lung, if you can get it. Tulku Dakpa periodically gives the lung for Buddhahood.

He is planning to give the lung for the seventeen Tantras sometime following Tibetan New Year, 2022.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 14th, 2021 at 12:30 AM
Title: Re: Yogacara + Tathagatagharba = Shentong
Content:
Matt J said:
Any progress?



Malcolm wrote:
Yes, his translation is certainly challenging.

I hope at some point to bring out a new translation of this this text, as well as the second of the trilogy, An Investigation into the Meaning of the Luminous Original Mind, the Differentiation of the Basis, Path and Result of the Great Perfection entitled Illuminating Wisdom.
No, I have more important work to do than translating Mipham.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, December 14th, 2021 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
Matt J said:
It wasn't an argument more than an observation. And if it were silly, that WaPo article never would have been written. One story that can be told is that the post-structuralist attitude, filtered via countless ways through higher learning, may have shifted the intellectual (and eventually the popular) culture in such a way that people are more open to Trumpian (and Putinian) forms of discourse.

Malcolm wrote:
And this relates directly to why Madhyamaka isn't a challenge to conventional knowledge, unlike deconstruction and other post-modernist trends, for which it is consistently mistaken.

Madhyamaka, if anything, does not seek to dismantle conventional knowledge, so much as site it appropriately in the context of liberation. It makes strong arguments against incoherent, essentialist claims which undermine conventional knowledge, in order to show that knowledge requires functionality in order to be considered knowledge at all. Its appeal to the illusory nature of phenomena and knowledge is not an argument for pure subjectivity, as it is often mistaken for. Instead, its appeal to the illusory nature of phenomena and knowledge is an argument for consensus and convention, while at the same time, negating the irrationality of imputing essences to dependently originated things.

I would argue that the present interest in Yogacāra, for example, is as much a function of the penetration of postmodernism into Buddhist studies as it is a function of increased linguistic understanding of Buddhist texts and so on. It is not an accident that in America and England, the continental fascination with yogacāra has met with quite a bit of resistance.

Now that we have scholars moving from being disinterested coroners of religion to invested proponents, this is changing, and it is not surprising that the strongest proponents of gzhan stong and yogacāra are Europeans. Frankly, a lot of argument between modern Mādhyamikas such as myself and those who adhere to various species of yogācara can be traced to a divide between how knowledge is handled by analytical and continental philosophy in general.

On the other hand, I can't tell you how many dissertations I have read in Buddhist studies over the years complete with accounts of methodologies derived from Said, Tambiah, etc. and so on. It seems that modern professors in Buddhist studies departments are demanding 100 pages or so filled with bullshit about the student's methodology and approach rooted in some postmodern drivel.

It is also not surprising that we have modern lamas who seem to have grasped onto Nietzschean moral nihilism with respect to the behavior of "mahāsiddhas," especially of the modern variety, whose main siddhis seem to be gathering students and bilking them of their money, just to bring this whole exchange


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 9:34 PM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:


treehuggingoctopus said:
I am (to an extent, in a fashion, etc.) a good Marxist. I wish anything happening in academia was capable of significantly contributing to such political changes as the election of POTUS. I suspect none of us uni people has really been able to believe it since the 1960s. Burroughs quipped that the Vietnam War provoked the longest and most sustained grassroot protests in the 20th century, supported by the vast majority of public intellectuals -- and, he says, all of it amounted to a fart.

Malcolm wrote:
Burroughs was wrong. It led to the US Military exiling the press. When I was a child, every night between 1968-1975 there was unedited, raw news footage of the Vietnam war on ABC, CBS, and NBC. Now, we see at best sanitized footage with grim journalists standing in other countries reporting on the  latest war news. So, the effect of the anti-war movement was to cause the US military to end press access to war zones. This is one reason we stayed in Iraq and Afghanistan for so long. As for the latter, many people in the US had no idea we were still there when Biden finally pulled us out.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 11:05 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
tobes said:
There's nothing in Will to Power that remotely looks fascistic.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I know, that was my point. People read the title and that’s about it.

However, Nietzsche’s skepticism of states leads directly to skepticism of democratic institutions. A bias or an operating principle in analytical philosophy is the defense of liberalism. Attempts to rehabilitate N’s thought as conducive to democratic liberalism are failures, in my estimation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 10:34 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:



tobes said:
Some of the literature on this topic suggests otherwise. i.e. a lot of the hard divisions crystallized during/after WWII. The analytic distaste for Hegel, Nietzsche etc has a lot to do with misreading them as somehow directly responsible for Nazi Germany.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is just a recognition that Hegelianism, with it focus on Hegel being the apex of history, in turn influenced Nietzsche’s reactionary nihilism, as well as Marx, were ideologies that led directly to anti-democratic regimes in Europe of both the left and the right.

PeterC said:
The common interpretation of this is more than a little unfair to Nietzsche.  Hitler never read him, his main philosophical motivation was Heidegger.  Neitzsche's actual ideas were consistently misrepresented from the Nazi era to today - GötzenDämmerung contains extensive anti-statist thoughts, and the "what does not kill you" line is almost always taken out of context to mean exactly the opposite of what he was actually saying.

Malcolm wrote:
Nietzsche was a cipher, meaning that one could selectively read whatever one wanted into him. Unfortunately, Will to Power is the most read title of one of his least understood books, inspiring many mini-Hitler wannabes. The other thing is that N has always ironically been more inspiring to the right than the left, because they interpret his anti statism not as a critique of state power, but as critique of consensus and cooperation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 10:20 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
tobes said:
For example, 20th century analytic philosophy is unthinkable

Malcolm wrote:
The Anglo-American analytical traditions isn’t an ethnic grouping, it is a grouping assembled in the Anglo-American academy in the 1950s, characterized by a certain approach to knowledge.

tobes said:
Some of the literature on this topic suggests otherwise. i.e. a lot of the hard divisions crystallized during/after WWII. The analytic distaste for Hegel, Nietzsche etc has a lot to do with misreading them as somehow directly responsible for Nazi Germany.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is just a recognition that Hegelianism, with it focus on Hegel being the apex of history, in turn influenced Nietzsche’s reactionary nihilism, as well as Marx, which ideologies led directly to anti-democratic regimes in Europe of both the left and the right in the twentieth century. This perception you speak, of course, was not positively reinforced by Nietzche’s posthumous Will to Power,  compiled and edited by his virulently-antisemitic sister.

Of course Adorno aptly shows how Heidegger’s pseudo-philosophy is fascism in its very essence, a sterling example of literary criticism of a philosophical text if there ever was one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 9:44 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
tobes said:
For example, 20th century analytic philosophy is unthinkable

Malcolm wrote:
The Anglo-American analytical traditions isn’t an ethnic grouping, it is a grouping assembled in the Anglo-American academy in the 1950s, characterized by a certain approach to knowledge.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 9:39 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
tobes said:
The issue is not what Derrida writes, it is in the army of Derrideans, who take him as a kind of guru, and make no effort to read or think outside of his paradigm. Same with Foucaldians et al.

Malcolm wrote:
Addressed by my comment about those who don’t like to think.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 4:21 AM
Title: Re: Opinions on the school system?
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Outsized focus on standardized testing is what’s killing a lot of kids education right now.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. people get real good at filling in circles, checking off squares, and drawing lines between two things. But they still don't learn a damn thing.

You see, you live in WA. I live in New England. We enjoy the highest rates of literacy in the US. Even New York scores at the bottom of the literacy charts, surprisingly, or maybe not, because parts of upstate NY are as poor as parts of Appalachia.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 4:05 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Having theories does not make one a philosopher. Having a theory of literature is little different than literary criticism, pumped up on self-importance.

treehuggingoctopus said:
Theory has nothing to do with having theories. It is related to the Greek theoria, interpreted the way Frankfurters did (after Kant), i.e., laying bare that which is hidden, i.e., one's preconceptions, necessary blindnesses, ideological involvements, conditions of possibility, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, I quite like Adorno's take down of Heidegger.

I just found very little of substance in Derrida, for example. Just yawn, add to this of course his and Foucault's support for sex with preteens...just not worth bothering at all. Freaking perverts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 3:24 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:


treehuggingoctopus said:
they are both theorists, the theory in question being the capital-letter Theory aka literary theory aka cultural theory -- which is not literary criticism but "theory" as in the Frankfurters' Critical Theory (which indeed is in many ways Derrida's, but not Foucault's, starting point.

Malcolm wrote:
Having theories does not make one a philosopher. Having a theory of literature is little different than literary criticism, pumped up on self-importance.

Careful argumentation, grounded in logic and rationality, makes one a philosopher: example, John Rawls.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The folks you are talking about are just literary critics, fashionable among people who don't like to think.

treehuggingoctopus said:
The first bit of this is just inaccurate.

Malcolm wrote:
It's accurate.

treehuggingoctopus said:
The second part is grossly unfair, and I am truly sorry to hear it coming from you.

Malcolm wrote:
I admit it was gratuitous, but it was fun to write.

treehuggingoctopus said:
Yes, there is a split between the analytical tradition and the continental tradition -- although in recent years it has been healed to some extent, and the healing continues (most philosophers writing in the areas which I follow have been mixing both voices since the 1990s).

Malcolm wrote:
There is a place for literary criticism, certainly philosophical texts are not immune from literary critique. But in general, I find western philosophy logorrheic, and this isn't helped when we have people mistaking Nietzsche, Marx, and Freud for philosophers, or worthy of attention from philosophers.

treehuggingoctopus said:
I stand firmly with the continental camp, but I would never parody the analytical philosophers' attitude along the lines of your crass mischaracterization.

Malcolm wrote:
It's basically a question of excluding evidence that is worthy of investigation, the analytical tradition has a much more narrow criteria for what they think is worth investigating or even deemed "philosophy." As Buddhists, our criteria is even more narrow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 1:09 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
nyonchung said:
A great part of the US scholarship in the 80's drawn heavily on Foucault, Derrida (again, badly translated at times)...

Malcolm wrote:
No serious philosophers (i.e. Anglo-American analytical philosophers) paid any attention to those guys, since the Anglo-American tradition has written off everything in Europe from Hegel onward as a waste of time.

The folks you are talking about are just literary critics, fashionable among people who don't like to think.

nyonchung said:
American exceptionnalism? hope not, but if what you say is factual, then all the best.

Malcolm wrote:
My late father was a "professional" philosopher, a colleague of Jay Garfield at Smith. He was an analytical philosopher and in his opinion, guys like Foucault. Derrida, and so on couldn't frame a coherent argument even if their lives depended on it. Guys like Heidegger, etc., are just not that coherent, what need to mention Nietzche? Basically, for the analytical tradition, the European contribution ends in Kant. He was a bit distressed that what was passing for philosophy in some peoples mind's was this mishmash of continental incoherence, especially with 80's faddism around deconstruction and Derrida. There are some universities in which this stuff gained a foothold, but not so much in the Ivy League schools, at least not when I was of college age, forty years ago.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, December 13th, 2021 at 12:26 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
nyonchung said:
A great part of the US scholarship in the 80's drawn heavily on Foucault, Derrida (again, badly translated at times)...

Malcolm wrote:
No serious philosophers (i.e. Anglo-American analytical philosophers) paid any attention to those guys, since the Anglo-American tradition has written off everything in Europe from Hegel onward as a waste of time.

The folks you are talking about are just literary critics, fashionable among people who don't like to think.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
nyonchung said:
"patriarchy" is a gimmick of sorts...

Malcolm wrote:
Well, certainly supporters of patriarchal relations and social systems based on them would have one believe this. But I suspect you just don't like the feminist critique of patriarchy because it is primarily coming from American scholars, and you are French, and you are still mad about Quebec.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: The underrepresented genre of personal memoir in Tibetan Buddhism
Content:
nyonchung said:
to be a poet yourself.

Malcolm wrote:
Nah, attempts to translate Tibetan poetry poetically usually results in sentimental drivel.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 10:40 PM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
nyonchung said:
What a confusion, patriarchy is mostly a meaningless gimmick drawn possibly from Foucault...

Malcolm wrote:
No.

Oxford:

pa·tri·arch·y
/ˈpātrēˌärkē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: patriarchy
a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is traced through the male line.
"the thematic relationships of the ballad are worked out according to the conventional archetypes of the patriarchy"
a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.
"the dominant ideology of patriarchy"
a society or community organized on patriarchal lines.
plural noun: patriarchies
"we live in a patriarchy"

Merriam Webster

pa·​tri·​ar·​chy | \ ˈpā-trē-ˌär-kē  \
plural patriarchies
Essential Meaning of patriarchy
1 : a family, group, or government controlled by a man or a group of men


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 10:09 PM
Title: Re: Opinions on the school system?
Content:
Dan74 said:
An overhaul you are suggesting, Malcolm, is not tantamount to a national curriculum, or at least, doesn't need to be. And if there is no grass-roots movement for it, won't it be resisted tooth-and-nail, challenged in court, etc?

Malcolm wrote:
For public schools, there needs to be a national curriculum, for example, in history, literature, social, and civil studies, as well as in the sciences, biology, physics, etc. You do realize that there are school districts (not many, but they exist) in the US that require teaching that the holocaust is only an OPINION; that evolution is only an OPINION, and one must also teach creationism alongside it; that one has to provide a fair and balanced picture of SLAVERY, showing that slaves also benefitted from the system, and so on. You are aware of these things, correct? And of course, there is,  in most secondary school textbooks on US history, no account of the real story of America's westward expansion and oppression of native people, beginning in the 1830's with Jackson's Indian Removals, etc. These things are not an issue where I live but they are serious issue in South, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 9:50 PM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
Charlie123 said:
Taken alltogether, they represent a nuanced and well-thought out body of advice on how disciples should relate to gurus.

Malcolm wrote:
My personal point of view is that how gurus relate to disciples is actually more important than how disciples relate to gurus.

nyonchung said:
I'm  a poor disciple but met teachers who were remarkably attentive to their disciples' spriritual development, material welfare, mental well-being...

Malcolm wrote:
My personal role model is ChNN. He was always unfailingly polite, kind, humble, and never lashed out or behaved in a "crazy" manner. He never gaslighted anyone. This is not to say that he was never sharp, never scolded anyone, or never used sarcasm. He would get angry if a situation warranted it.  But for the most part he was pretty relaxed, and at the same time, intensely focused on benefitting his students.

He was very clear about what he was doing and one could either "be in his boat" or not. His list of 27 personal samayas he adopted before he began teaching Dzogchen is illustrative of his whole approach to being a teacher. He did not give a flying f**k about Tibetan hierarchy per se, while at the same time caring deeply about Tibetan culture and history. But he never tried to turn his students into little imitation Tibetans nor did he try to invent a dharma culture by creating a mashup of Asian and Western cultures, like Trungpa, etc. He understood westerners were westerners, and that what we needed was the essentials of Dharma, not all the cultural bullshit that has hitched a ride with Vajrayāna teachings. He always put Dzogchen Community first, even when it caused problems in his personal life. He always used to called himself Dzogchen Community member #1, as we all have membership numbers. When he passed, the world lost a treasure.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 9:12 PM
Title: Re: Opinions on the school system?
Content:
Dan74 said:
US kids are different, how exactly? The maths they learn or should be learning is different, how exactly?

Malcolm wrote:
Dan, you have no idea how bad education in this country is at the primary and secondary level. How unequal it is from district to district. And don't get me started on the college loan scam.

Dan74 said:
I do have an idea of how bad it is. What I am not aware of is compelling evidence that the lack of a national curriculum is the root cause of that. But I am happy to learn.

Malcolm wrote:
Its obvious. For example, in the South, they still refer to the Civil War as the war of Northern Aggression, and they still use textbooks on the Civil War written by "Lost Cause" historians. In Texas, you will find virtually no reference at all to the fact that Texas as the last state after the Civil War to receive the Emancipation Proclamation (Juneteenth), and so on, or that Texas was founded to promote slavery.

There is no little to no civil studies taught in primary or secondary schools any more. There is little to no PE taught in Inner City schools because of lack of funding. Classrooms sizes range from 40 to 60 students at all levels in public schools systems. Teachers are not given living wages. Teachers Unions are demonized on the smallest pretexts. It goes way beyond curriculums.

The US educational system has been rendered dysfunctional by a whole host of issues beyond teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic, and as far as the latter three are concerned, I would say that most students in the US in the public school system graduate with insufficient skills in grammar and composition. Every college in the US has writing and grammar class requirements for freshman, because the functional literacy rate in the US has been plummeting for the past five decades.  For example:

According to the U.S. Department of Education, 54% of U.S. adults 16-74 years old - about 130 million people - lack proficiency in literacy, reading below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2020/09/09/low-literacy-levels-among-us-adults-could-be-costing-the-economy-22-trillion-a-year/?sh=56130fbe4c90

So yeah, the US needs a complete overhaul in the primary and secondary school system, and it needs to be done at the Federal level, because the states are just not doing an adequate job.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 11:24 AM
Title: Re: Some Observation on the Guru-Chela Relationship by Tulku Sherdor
Content:
Charlie123 said:
Taken alltogether, they represent a nuanced and well-thought out body of advice on how disciples should relate to gurus.

Malcolm wrote:
My personal point of view is that how gurus relate to disciples is actually more important than how disciples relate to gurus.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 5:54 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Astus said:
To meet this criticism, Pārśva made the extraordinary claim that the reason these matters could not be found in the sūtras must be because they had been in sūtras that the Buddha had preached, but that had been subsequently lost.'[/i]

Malcolm wrote:
An entirely reasonable assumption. Vasubandhu, speaking as a Mahāyāni, addresses the issue of the loss of many sūtras in both śrāvakayāna and Mahāyāna,

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ibk1952/55/3/55_3_1106/_pdf

https://journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/index.php/jiabs/article/viewFile/9178/3036


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 2:28 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
Nemo said:
Vietnam is interesting. Highly democratic with local representation, worker co ops and multi party elections. Neoliberals even ran in the last election. Cuba has elections as well.

China for all it's faults under Deng brought 800m million people out of the worst poverty imaginable and created a Western standard of living for 300 million.

Malcolm wrote:
Thanks to Walmart.

Nemo said:
It was ironically the largest period of economic growth in the history of capitalism. China under Deng was fun and felt more free than here.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, if you were a westerner, clueless, and no idea what is happening there around you.

Nemo said:
Much better than bombing random brown people like we do.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, now they just randomly imprison Tibetans and Uigers, etc. in massive concentration camps by the hundreds of thousands at a time.

Nemo said:
The West generally had a big economic head start from genocide, slavery, colonialism and imperialism. It will be interesting when those advantages expire.

Malcolm wrote:
They've just been passed onto China, that's all. They haven't expired at all. China is the biggest colonial force in Africa, at the moment. Its a player in the neoliberalism game, now it is just trying to control neoliberalism to its own advantage. It is engaged in "internal" colonialism and genocide in Tibet and Xinjiang.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 12:55 AM
Title: Re: Opinions on the school system?
Content:
Dan74 said:
US kids are different, how exactly? The maths they learn or should be learning is different, how exactly?

Malcolm wrote:
Dan, you have no idea how bad education in this country is at the primary and secondary level. How unequal it is from district to district. And don't get me started on the college loan scam.

So yeah, you don't really get it, and your solutions won't scale. Part of that is because you live in a little European country.

It is not STEM that is the problem, it is about the liberal arts side of the issue, where kids learn about government, ethics, history, and so on, the side that trains children in citizenship and so on.

The right have become such a bunch of snowflakes in the US, they are now banning books from schools because they might cause some white child to cry. Teachers cannot honestly teach about Columbus' genocidal presence in the West Indies in many red states now because some white child might feel bad about being white, and on and on it goes. So yeah, it's not just about math.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 12:07 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


Aemilius said:
There is a Vinaya rule against boasting about one's spiritual accomplishments or spiritual experiences.

Malcolm wrote:
This applies only to the ordianed and is probably at the root of the śrāvaka notion that anyone who attains stream entry and does not ordain within seven days, dies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, December 12th, 2021 at 12:04 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
Sādhaka said:
I’m sure everyone has more or less their own definitions of what leftism, rightism, conservatism, and liberalism are....

I mean I’m pretty rightist, and liberal in ways; and all I can say here, is screw leninism, stalinism, trotskyism, & maoism (weren’t these guys the epitome of leftism?), and screw neoconservatism.

Malcolm wrote:
Left libertarian. This means, governments pay for everything necessary to keep everyone healthy, well educated, and prosperous, while also respecting to the utmost degree civil rights, freedom of the press, and the right to assembly. Yes, taxes are high, but so are benefits.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 11th, 2021 at 10:32 PM
Title: Re: A question on Bardo
Content:
Dharmasherab said:
Now this question may touch esoteric topics so please dont answer if one feels they are violating their precepts and tantric vows.

This is a question asked by a Zen priest who regularly visits our monastery (I am a Theravada novice living in a Theravada monastery). He asked me two questions -

1. In the Bardo stage, why do practitioners focus on the Form aspect of the being? Shouldn't they be focussing on the mind aspect?

2. At what point does the being no longer recollects that she or he was not a human in a past life?

Malcolm wrote:
1. Body and mind are not dual.

2. After the 21st day, one forgets one past life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 11th, 2021 at 9:59 PM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Again, uncertain. Face it Astus, you just don’t have very strong evidence to be making the confident statements you’ve been making on this subject.

Astus said:
Let's put it this way then: there is no evidence so far of the existence of the two truths doctrine in the sutras or the main 7 abhidharma texts, only in somewhat later works like the Mahavibhasa. To maintain that nevertheless there is would need finding such references.

Malcolm wrote:
Often in Vasubandhu and earlier Abhudharma texts references are made to doctrines belonging to sutras not found one or another canons, like the bardo, for example, or in sutras that did not survive at all. The best you can say is that YOU personally don’t see such evidence; others, such as myself, disagree. The difference, I suspect, is how much credibility one wants to lend buddhologusts as being the final arbiters of Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 11th, 2021 at 6:51 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You are certain of this?

Astus said:
'There can be no doubt that the theory of momentariness cannot be traced back to the beginnings of Buddhism or even the Buddha himself. It does not fit the practically orientated teachings of early Buddhism and clearly bears the mark of later doctrinal elaboration. Thus in the Nikayas/Agamas there are many passages which attribute duration to material and even mental entities, whereas there is, at least to my knowledge, no passage which testifies to the stance that all conditioned entities are momentary.'
(The Buddhist Doctrine of Momentariness, p 15)

Malcolm wrote:
Inconclusive.


Astus said:
Can be uncertain, sure. However, the Mahavibhasa is a compendium, and the information contained therein most likely predates it,

Malcolm wrote:
Again, uncertain. Face it Astus, you just don’t have very strong evidence to be making the confident statements you’ve been making on this subject.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 11th, 2021 at 6:47 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Astus said:
On the issue of two truths and Nagarjuna: https://fh.pku.edu.cn/docs/2018-11/20181119234424438102.pdf

Malcolm wrote:
This paper adds nothing new.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 11th, 2021 at 3:10 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
LastLegend said:
I wasn’t reading closely....


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 11th, 2021 at 1:46 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


TannersHatch said:
Not only are they exclusive to Buddhism, they are exclusive to the Dzogchen system within Buddhism.
The idea of other realms after death are exclusive to Buddhism?

Malcolm wrote:
The general bardo (antarabhāva, literally the "in-between existence") is not another realm. It describes the state a sentient being goes through for 7 weeks until it takes birth in one of the six realms—hell being, ghost, animal, human, titan, or god—which in turn are part of the three realms, the desire realm, form realm, and formless realm.

TannersHatch said:
Isn't this 'wheel' largely a Hindu concept?

Malcolm wrote:
No, actually, not at all. The hindu concept of rebirth is not recognizable in Buddhism at all.

The bardo that "Liberation from Hearing in the Bardo" describes is unique the Dzogchen system. It is called the bardo of dharmatā. It is not described in any other tantric system outside of the Dzogchen system. The Dzogchen system describes four or six bardos. The other tantric traditions in Buddhism only describe one.

TannersHatch said:
I should exclusively learn from learned folks such as yourself do you advise?

Malcolm wrote:
If you wish to learn about the teachings which come from Dzogchen, then you should rely on teachers who are expert in that system. If you want to learn about ayahuasca, then you should learn from teachers expert in that system. If you want to learn about Hinduism, you learn from teachers expert in that system. But what you must not do is confuse and conflate these systems in a naive, its-all-one-man ecumenicism.

TannersHatch said:
Guess the Bardos are closed to me until I get the lung eh? Where will I go do you think?

Malcolm wrote:
Everyone goes through all the bardos. Without instruction, however, you won't even recognize the bardo of this life, never mind the bardo of death or the bardo of dharmatā. You will die, not recognizing the bardo of death or the bardo of dharmatā, passing straight into the bardo of rebirth, where you will take birth again in the six realms after seven weeks. A day in the bardo equals the amount of time one is able to remain in samadhi. So for most beings, those 49 "days" pass in 49 moments, less than a minute after the consciousness separates from the body, according to the Dzogchen teachings of which "Liberation through Hearing in the Bardo" is a part.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 11th, 2021 at 1:01 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:


TannersHatch said:
How can you be sure of this please?

Malcolm wrote:
I have the empowerment, the lung, and the instruction for this system.

TannersHatch said:
Perhaps it could be of some use regardless?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope. There is the entire of teaching of the Dzogchen system behind this one little text.

TannersHatch said:
I'm no expert so I'm just talking here...

Malcolm wrote:
One needs the empowerment, the lung, and the instruction.

TannersHatch said:
although I don't think these ideas are exclusive to Buddhism are they?

Malcolm wrote:
Not only are they exclusive to Buddhism, they are exclusive to the Dzogchen system within Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, December 11th, 2021 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Opinions on the school system?
Content:
Queequeg said:
The thing is, society is raising these kids. We're at such a pitiful stage that as Malcolm is arguing

Malcolm wrote:
We also need to kill Instagram, break up Facebook, and generally regulate social media into the grave.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 11:50 PM
Title: Re: Opinions on the school system?
Content:
Queequeg said:
Maybe a big reason education is floundering can be found if we look in the mirror.

Malcolm wrote:
There is some truth to this, but not all. As I mentioned before, the defenestration of the US educational system has a been a GOP policy since bussing. White people literally moved away from school districts where their kids are educated alongside Black kids, taking their tax dollars with them. A large driving force behind the "white flight" to the suburbs in many urban areas was because of education. Black majority schools have outdated textbooks, no computers, you name it, they don't have it. School policy and curriculum should set at the national level, not the local or state level. Want to educated your kids apart from that, fine, send your kids to private school, but no funding from the state, period, no grants, etc., nothing. Schools should focus on liberal arts as well as STEM. What we turn out now is a bunch of uneducated dummies who do well enough in STEM programs but understand nothing about history, literature, how governments work, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
LastLegend said:
The two truths can be understood through yogacara (Lankavatara Sutra).

Malcolm wrote:
The term occurs once in that whole text.

But that was not my point. The three natures certainly are an attempt to describe the two truths, but there is no three truths in Yogacāra. The imputed nature is not a truth, though the imagination of the unreal (the dependent nature) is relative truth for Yogacāra, and the absence of the imputed nature in the dependent nature is what Yogacāra asserts to be ultimate truth (the perfected nature).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 10:27 PM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It must be accepted because of what's in the sūtras, hence the notion of "Sautrantikas," and so on. If the two truths had no basis in the agamic sūtras, for what reason then did the Sautrantikas accept it without question?

Astus said:
Sautrantikas accepted momentariness and had their karmic seed theory, but neither of them are found in the sutras.

Malcolm wrote:
You are certain of this?

Astus said:
Nagarjuna lived after the creation of the Mahavibhasa...



Malcolm wrote:
This is not certain.

Astus said:
As for his sources for the two truths teaching, he does not actually specify, does he?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, he does. He specifies the Buddha as the source this teaching. Nagarjuna also proclaims that since nirvana alone is true, everything else is false.

Astus said:
Its unclear which sūtras Nāgārjuna has before him, other than a PP sūtra and probably the Kāsyapaparivarta, but given that he and Lokaṣema were contemporaries, it is reasonable to assume at least he had these sūtras in front him.
Nagarjuna was familiar with various abhidharma works, as discussed in chapter 7 of Nagarjuna in Context.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course. But that is irrelevant.

Astus said:
Now if your position is that the two truths are not found in either seven-text Abdhidharma collections, and only appears in commentaries substantially dated after Nāgārjuna, then you have to accept, by your own reasoning, that the "two truths" as a term occurs only in Mahāyāna, and that its presence in śrāvaka sources after Nāgārjuna are polemical response against emptiness as ultimate truth.
The Mahavibhasa precedes Nagarjuna.

Malcolm wrote:
Again, this is uncertain. Walser claims that Ratnavali was written between 175-225. But it could easily have been written 50 years earlier. The Mahāvibhasa was supposedly compiled during the Reign of Kanishka (127-151 CE) in Bactria. This is 24 year period is a pretty narrow window to compose such a monumental text and then distribute it across India to Andhra Pradesh, to be received and studied by Nāgārjuna.

Astus said:
Beyond that, it would take some further research to identify early occurrences of the two truths doctrine.

Malcolm wrote:
That being the case, you should not make confident proclamations about it.

Astus said:
If on the other hand one accepts that the notion of two truths is discernible in agamic sūtras, no such admission is required, and the two truths doctrine can be seen to develop along different lines in Abhidharma and Mahāyāna, since it is certainly the case that Nāgārjuna cites it as a basic fact which no one would question at all. And there is the possibility, quite distinct and equally remote, that a text like the Pitāputrasamāgamana was "converted" into a Mahāyāna text.
The idea that there are just two truths is not that fixed, as the Pudgalavadins had a threefold division (Pudgalavada Buddhism, p 105),

Malcolm wrote:
The Pitāputrasamāgamana explicitly negates this "three truths," in no uncertain terms. If this text was in front of Nāgārjuna, as tradition maintains,
Yogacara also has a threefold version,
No. This is an error. The three natures are not three truths, but that is beyond our discussion here.

Astus said:
and the Mahavibhasa notes the existence of twofold, threefold, and fivefold divisions according to different interpreters (Sarvastivada Abhidharma, p 77-78). So, if the two truths doctrine were such a clear case in the sutras, there would be no reason for differences.

Malcolm wrote:
We are here discussing pāramārthasatya and samvṛtisatya. There are also four truths, but that is not relevant here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 9:57 PM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
TannersHatch said:
Going out on a limb here...

Malcolm wrote:
And sawing the branch off behind you.

TannersHatch said:
The book of the dead text which is read to the being after death could be thought of as talking someone through a bad dream or 'trip'.

Malcolm wrote:
No. It has no function at all for someone who has not received the empowerment of the peaceful and wrathful deities and done some of its practice in this life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 8:37 PM
Title: Re: Opinions on the school system?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Totally opposed to charter schools.

PeterC said:
When you look at who the political proponents of charter schools are, it’s easy to reach that conclusion.

The countries with the best performing Educaiton systems all have very strong, nationally standardized public school systems. US politicians would learn a lot about public service provision by looking at the other countries who get it right, but of course they never do that.

Dan74 said:
I don't know if nationally standardised is the way to go.

Malcolm wrote:
Switzerland is a tiny country. It’s solutions are not applicable to us. They don’t scale well. For instance:

In Texas, a Battle Over What Can Be Taught, and What Books Can Be Read
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/10/us/texas-critical-race-theory-ban-books.html?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 8:33 PM
Title: Re: Opinions on the school system?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Totally opposed to charter schools.

PeterC said:
When you look at who the political proponents of charter schools are, it’s easy to reach that conclusion.

The countries with the best performing Educaiton systems all have very strong, nationally standardized public school systems. US politicians would learn a lot about public service provision by looking at the other countries who get it right, but of course they never do that.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, I have come to the conclusion that the state by state system we have makes US democracy weak.  There is no nationally standardized curriculum, just as there is no nationally standardized and fair system of voting. The same people promoting charter schools try to undermine the federal gvt. At every turn,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 6:27 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Astus said:
Why would anyone disagree when the doctrine of two truths is accepted by practically everyone? But it doesn't mean it's accepted because of what's in the sutras. Nagarjuna argues against ideas that are rather Abhidharma based, like the whole dharma-theory.

Malcolm wrote:
It must be accepted because of what's in the sūtras, hence the notion of "Sautrantikas," and so on. If the two truths had no basis in the agamic sūtras, for what reason then did the Sautrantikas accept it without question? If as you imply, Nāgārjuna was a species of Sautrantika, why would he accept and promote the two truths? After all, the term "two truths" does not occur in the PP in 8000 lines either, assuming this is one of the earliest and it was before Nāgārjuna. But it discusses dharmas as being mere conventions and names. It also mentioned pāramārtha five times only.

Kāsyapaparivarta only mentions don dam pa, pārmārtha, twice, pāramārthasatya once. If there is an ultimate truth, there must be something which is not ultimate.

Are you suggesting that the idea of two truths in Mahāyāna also comes from Abhidharma commentaries, which we have no evidence of? Its unclear which sūtras Nāgārjuna has before him, other than a PP sūtra and probably the Kāsyapaparivarta, but given that he and Lokaṣema were contemporaries, it is reasonable to assume at least he had these sūtras in front him. Sūtrasammucaya, attributed to Nāgārjuna, has only three references to ultimate truth and a relative truth, in a text called the Candragarbha Chapter (zla ba snyin po le'u), another called the Candraprabha Chapter (zla ba 'od kyi le'u) and a third text, Meeting of the Father and Son Sutra (Pitāputrasamāgamana), where the term "two truths" is explicitly introduced.

Now if your position is that the two truths are not found in either seven-text Abdhidharma collections, and only appears in commentaries substantially dated after Nāgārjuna, then you have to accept, by your own reasoning, that the "two truths" as a term occurs only in Mahāyāna, and that its presence in śrāvaka sources after Nāgārjuna are polemical response against emptiness as ultimate truth.

If on the other hand one accepts that the notion of two truths is discernible in agamic sūtras, no such admission is required, and the two truths doctrine can be seen to develop along different lines in Abhidharma and Mahāyāna, since it is certainly the case that Nāgārjuna cites it as a basic fact which no one would question at all. And there is the possibility, quite distinct and equally remote, that a text like the Pitāputrasamāgamana was "converted" into a Mahāyāna text.
As something to NOT follow.

Astus said:
Not follow?

'Of that which the wise in the world agree upon as not existing, I too say that it does not exist. And of that which the wise in the world agree upon as existing, I too say that it exists.' (SN 22.94, tr Bodhi)

Malcolm wrote:
It contradicts what the Buddha says in that agama passage, thus, there is a contradiction to resolve.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 4:53 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Astus said:
not as some special truth to be analysed or considered.

Malcolm wrote:
As something to NOT follow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 4:30 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
and ends up with a Dzogchen (monism) paradigm.

Malcolm wrote:
Most misunderstood part of that book. Dzogchen cosmogony is not monistic at all. It is just Abhidharmakośa cosmogony.

Stay in yer lane, bub.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 4:26 AM
Title: Re: Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?
Content:
Ode to Joy said:
Why don't Buddhists believe in Buddhist cosmology?

Malcolm wrote:
There are two basic Buddhist cosmologies: Hinayāna and Mahāyāna. Which one do you mean?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 4:23 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I had thought that Sarvāstivāda-Vibhajyavāda was its own schism, the Sarvāstivādins "not" having ever been Vibhajyavādins, because Vibhajyavāda was formed by the schism, just like "Sarvāstivāda." What do you know to the contrary?

Malcolm wrote:
There are different accounts. Some accounts maintain that the Vibhajyavāda and Sarvāstivāda formed from a split, others maintain the latter broke off from the former. I find the former account more convincing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 4:03 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
...they've had no significant impact on continental Vibhajyavādin thought, let alone a significant impact on mainstream Indian Buddhism, but the period we are speaking of has had an effect on them. Knowing that, I'd argue that discussing them is not utterly irrelevant. They are one particularized stream of Buddhism that has been necessarily influenced by certain continental trends.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, to the extent that Sarvāstivāda comes from Vibhajyavāda, sure.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 3:54 AM
Title: Re: Opinions on the school system?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Totally opposed to charter schools.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Speaking to the issue of Theravādin exegesis, which I don't think is completely off-topic since they are still a Śrāvaka Abhidharma school...

Malcolm wrote:
The Theravadin tradition had zero impact on the continental Indian thought of the period we are discussing. While the record of debates at the time of Aśoka in the Kathāvatthu is certainly interesting, as is the Vibhańga, and so on, this predates the Theravadin tradition by hundreds of years.

What Astus is looking for is the term "satyavidhaṃdvaya" in a sūtra in the same way we find "catursatya" in order to confirm the Buddha taught two truths. What I am pointing out is that term needn't be there for the intention to be there. And the intention is clearly there.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, December 10th, 2021 at 1:33 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Who cares what what Theravada thinks? Their tradition has no observable influence on this topic.

Astus said:
Assuming that Sarvastivadins worked from generally the same sutras, since their version of the two truths is somewhat different, if the origin of the two truths doctrine is the sutras, there should be some sutras not found in the Theravada canon to explain the discrepancy.

Malcolm wrote:
You are speculating. It’s very clear the two truths are the Buddha’s teaching, as Nagarjuna proclaims. If there was any disagreement at all, it would be evident in polemics against his assertion, but none can be found anywhere. All there there is pushback against his, and one presumes, his teachers formulation of ultimate truth, and none against his formulation of mundane convention, which also is found  in sutra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Two truths are specified, seeing correctly and seeing falsely. That’s enough.

Astus said:
However, that's not how the two truths are understood in Theravada. At least we'd need some identifiable agamas to say that conventional language is false.

Malcolm wrote:
Who cares what what Theravada thinks? Their tradition has no observable influence on this topic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: Extinction as a result of global warming
Content:


KathyLauren said:
Trying to create a better samsara is how you manifest compassion.  Of course, samsara being what it is, you won't succeed.  But if you can't be bothered making the effort, where is your practice?

Dharmasherab said:
Yes it is a way to manifest compassion. However when done mindlessly it is also a good way to develop delusion even further. It is not unusual to increase their disturbing emotions based on trying to change things which are far beyond their control so they miss the time and waste their effort which could be used for practice of the mind. In an age like this including in the West, most people's deepest disturbing emotions tend to lie within their beliefs in politics and some of whom are into engaged Buddhism who try to promote and push their own political narrative on others in the disguise of engaged Buddhism. This is not compassion. Instead, it is manipulative behaviour based on delusion. For others who are of the more sincere type, its the attitude of trying to cover the entire surface of the earth with rubber instead of wearing rubber shoes.


Malcolm wrote:
Lot of judgement of others in your post, buddy. I guess you don’t see the yak on your own nose because you are too busy looking for spots on the noses of others.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 8:11 PM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:


Astus said:
Are there any specific sutras named/known as the sources for those quotes?

Malcolm wrote:
Most of the sutras in that commentary are unnamed, as are these.

Astus said:
To identify two truths there have to be two ways of perception and expression specified

Malcolm wrote:
Two truths are specified, seeing correctly and seeing falsely. That’s enough. No need to have the Buddha declare that aggregates and so on are ultimate, otherwise it would have been game over for Madhyamaka at the beginning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 9:30 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:


Sādhaka said:
Yet just about anything beats the decades-old public-fool system, which aims to turn out corporate drones.

Malcolm wrote:
The sole reason public education is in decline is due to its defunding beginning with Reagan, a as racist reaction to school busing in the 70’s. But you are way too young to to know this. Before Civil Rights legislation tried to secure parity for Blacks, public schools in this country in the post-war period were excellent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 7:57 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
tobes said:
The fact that nearly a decade on, the real popular uprising is fascistic, and neoliberalism is still running unabated should be cause for serious reflection on how the left has deeply failed, but it seems unwilling to self-reflect on it's own shortcomings. There is often a sense of moral righteousness that precludes such reflexive awareness - and very often the arguments made are tautological in that sense. i.e. "we're right because we're right. We don't even need a clear argument."

Malcolm wrote:
You see, the right focuses on policies, not theory. They focus on getting shit done.

Bernie is a good model. He doesn't give a shit about theory either. The left needs to follow him and stop their post-Marxist, bullshit, theoretical navel-gazing.

tobes said:
I think that a big part of what is making the (hard/far) right successful is the galvanizing force of direct ad hom. i.e. the objects of their hatred are strong enough to unify them.

But the more moderate right: they are drenched in theory. It's called free market economics, and they apply it to literally everything.

I also think people who resist this, like Sanders, are necessarily very engaged in theoretical critiques. And so they should, it can't be pure sentiment.

Maybe when you're saying 'theory' you mean political-social-cultural theory?

Malcolm wrote:
Nerds geek out on Milton F., but serious GOP people just make money and make sure policies benefit themselves.

Bernie is not a theory guy. He is a policy guy, guided by a very simple set of principles: universal healthcare, universal education, cut defense spending by at least half, tax the ultra rich out of existence.

Proof he is not  a theory guy, the Bookchin folks are perpetually pissed at Sanders. In deed, Sanders is very much what municipal libertarianism would look like, but he could care less about all the theoretical posturing and historical analysis behind it. Sanders is a legislator, not a theorist,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 6:54 AM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:
nyonchung said:
If I understand well Lama Dampa received it from Münmé Dragkha Dragpa Senggé (1255-1343), a major disciple of Thugjé Tsöndrü, but possibly from other teachers

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


nyonchung said:
Butön transmissions includes a considerable amount of kadampa, kagyüpa, zhijé transmissions  - he mentions that he received nyingma teachings from his grandfather, but doesn't see too happy with them

Malcolm wrote:
Buton' was a major fan boy of Sapan. That's all you need to know.

nyonchung said:
Sakya proper sometimes got into political hard times, but transmissions were still going in many places, not necessarily politically or administratively  controled by Sakya. But certainly Sakya (as a center of power) had for long a say in the nomination of abbots in many places and up to c. 1350 and sometimes much later. Most scholars (sutras and tantras) had a connection with Sakya, be they otherwise tö-drugpa, kagyüpas etc ... almost all shangpa-kagyüpa teachers from Tsang up to 1650 went at some point of their carrier to study in Sakya or received Sakyapa teachings.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
tobes said:
The fact that nearly a decade on, the real popular uprising is fascistic, and neoliberalism is still running unabated should be cause for serious reflection on how the left has deeply failed, but it seems unwilling to self-reflect on it's own shortcomings. There is often a sense of moral righteousness that precludes such reflexive awareness - and very often the arguments made are tautological in that sense. i.e. "we're right because we're right. We don't even need a clear argument."

Malcolm wrote:
You see, the right focuses on policies, not theory. They focus on getting shit done.

Bernie is a good model. He doesn't give a shit about theory either. The left needs to follow him and stop their post-Marxist, bullshit, theoretical navel-gazing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 6:23 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Arguing that the Sarvastivadins did not have a concept of two truths derived from sūtras, is, frankly just dumb.

Astus said:
The reason it practically cannot be derived from the sutras is that the definition of the two truths requires the ideas that come from the Abhidharma, that is, the distinction between truly existing dharmas and nominally existing worldly conventions. Such linguistic separation is not found in the sutras...

Malcolm wrote:
I don't agree with this. The Buddha is very clear in a passage that appears in Śamathadeva's commentary [mngon, ju 47a (Toh. 4094)] that one is not to have attachment to the etymologies (nirukti) of the people (jānapada), one is not to hasten to mundane names. It is because they are false.

Prior to this, [mngon, ju 40b (Toh. 4094)], the Buddha is quoted as "Bhikṣus, the supreme (mchog) falsity is the phenomena that are false and deceptive. Bhikṣus, the supreme truths are like this, this is how they are. Therefore, the bhikṣus who posses that possess, the supreme blessings of truth." Moreover, there is a whole section later, where he discusses that which is empty as being false, deceptive, etc.

So you really just have not looked well enough, because of a literal mindedness you have been infected with through reading too much text critical literature. To insist that the two truths are not in the agamas because the term "satyadvaya" does not explicitly occur is very myopic. But the two truths are there, you just have to know to see them. Maybe you should get your eyes checked again.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 5:41 AM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:


nyonchung said:
this to say that Thogmé Zangmo teachings entered also the Gelugpa tradition through Gyama Yönten Ö, a master  Khedrub Jé Geleg Pelzang
butb he also transmitted (is it becoming an obsession) the tö-drugpa lhan gcig skyes sbyor gyi khrid yig  rgyal sras lugs / yon tan 'od kyi zin bris who was later received by Drugpa Ngagwang Chögyel (1465-1540)
another important disciple,still relevant to the subject Radreng Shakya Sönam (1356-1442), also a disciple of TsongkhapaLike Yönten Ö
He had many disciples among Gelugpas (like him often also disciples of Tsongkhapa) but also notable Sakyapa teachers like Ga rab 'byams pa Künga Yeshé (1397-1470)

this to say that important teachings always widely circulated, and that kadampa teachings can be obtain from teachers of all school - certainly Kagyüpas ang Gelugpas will insist on them as a foundation
Must be noted that the lojong practice was included in the shangpa 3 years-retreat before starting the chö practice

Malcolm wrote:
It must be noted that all Mahāyāna teachings are included in Parting From the Four Attachments, the very first text in the Jo nang brgya rtsa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 5:00 AM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:
nyonchung said:
Well, Taranatha was certainly holding Sakya transmissions
Dölpopa being zhentongpa, what do we do?

Malcolm wrote:
He was Sakya. Jonang is a subschool of Sakya. Dolbupa lived long before Gorampa's views were declared the official Sakya position in the late 15th century.

nyonchung said:
As for Butön, the Zhalu Ribug tradition (see Losel Tenkyong) describes him as a zhalupa foremots (if not as a trophu-kagyüpa),even if certainly received and transmitted innumerable Sakyapa teaching

Malcolm wrote:
Zhalu is Sakya as the day is long, from Buton down to Losal Tenkyong.


nyonchung said:
For Thugjé Tsöndrü, alas no, the dmar khrid is one of four specific teachings of Jonang (see Gö Lotsawa's deb ther)
lineage:
- Tsembupa

Malcolm wrote:
Thugje Tsondru was a Sakyapa. The only lineage that has extensive teaching on the Tsembupa Markhrid is Sakya, notably the very profound commentary by Lama Dampa and the one by Ngorpa Sangye Phunstog, and the various instructions on it Zhuchen Tsultrim Rinchen, also of Ngor. It was the first teaching I ever received.

nyonchung said:
Back to Thogmé Zangpo, if one checks his writings and the lineages he transmitted they are overwhelmingly kadampa, plus the tö-drugpa lineage of Yanggönpa Gyeltsen Pel (1213-1258) he received from Sherab Bum (who received two lineages) so theb tö-drugpa claim may be not that excessive (G-granted, Yanggönpa, heitr to Götsangpa, is also a disciple of Sakya Pendita)
I will not contest of course for Lama, a splendid figure
But Pang Lotsawa, later considered as a forefather of the bodongpas, can certainly be also described as a Sakyapa

Malcolm wrote:
There is no conflict. Sangphu, by the 14th century was effectively a branch of Sakya.

Jonang, Zhalu, and Geluk can all be generally included in the schools that branched from Sakya. Most of their Vajrayāna transmissions come from Sakya, and so on. Kunga Drolchok was Sakya, through and through, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 4:00 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
The division of the dharmas by the Ābhidharmikas into "real" svabhāva dharmas and unreal concepts in their matrices is arguably their version of the two truths. You'll notice that in the 11th century treatise, it also didn't outrightly outline two truths. Instead, it outlined the ultimate, and the conventional is what is imputed over that ultimate, the fourfold ultimate in the case of the Theravāda sect. Now, the fourfold paramattha is not from the Theravādin Adhidhamma itself. It is a systematization of their dhamma-matrices as presented in texts like Dhammasaṅgaṇī. These matrices were the "ultimate truth" of many of the Śrāvaka Abhidharma traditions, one could argue.

Malcolm wrote:
Śamathadeva's commentary refers to sentient beings as relative (saṃvṛti), since they appropriate aggregates. Don dam, pāramārtha is a reference to emptiness.

Arguing that the Sarvastivadins did not have a concept of two truths derived from sūtras, is, frankly just dumb. Astus is applying strict text critical criteria to the question, but that is useless here, because the fact is that it is discussed by Vasubandhu, and earlier, etc. It is scholastic myopia only that would lead one to claim that there is not evidence of the two truths in the agamas. Nāgārjuna would not have bothered mentioning it had he thought there would be a serious contest about his claim:

The dharma taught the buddhas
properly relies on two truths.

His opponents here are not Mahāyānis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 3:07 AM
Title: Re: Inner circles and cults
Content:


nyonchung said:
As for France, I don't think ther was any formal case started against Sogyal - and French criminal law is as think much stricter than the US one, and police possibly more reactive ... I found some peoples' reaction pretty strange, specially this guy who showed up in magazines, TV, just to start his own Dharma business after disparaging his own teacher - well if there was anything wrong, he was so high up in the organization and close to Sogyal, must haved noticed something in 20 years or so, no?

Malcolm wrote:
Sogyal may have been a bully, a sybarite, and corrupt, but to his credit, he did introduce literally thousands of people to very qualified teachers, like Khenpo Namdrol. Much the same could be said of Trungpa.

nyonchung said:
A certain German site loves this stuff

Malcolm wrote:
Well, that guy escaped from the Scientology of Buddhism, aka NKT.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 2:20 AM
Title: Re: Inner circles and cults
Content:
nyonchung said:
years! OMG, so fast, and now lecturing about it - one French guy - former Sogyal"s translator (English to French) - doing same after 20 years or so profiteering of the system, now still profits by denouncing it and started his own groups ... to teach "pure Dharma", while saying that the only teachings he ever received were from Sogyal (and in English) ...

Malcolm wrote:
That is seriously distorted, whatever one thinks of Sogyal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 2:15 AM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:


nyonchung said:
The list of his teachers is long (includes Butön, Dölpopa, Lama Dampa, Pang Lotsawa ...)

Malcolm wrote:
Butön, Dölpopa, Lama Dampa...all Sakyapas.

- thugs rje chen po'i dmar khrid, also Sakya, through Thuje Tsondru.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 1:59 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
They most certainly did derive or have their idea of the two truths from their sūtras. Those passages prove it.

Astus said:
How so? Neither the idea of there being two truths, nor the definition of those truths are found there.

Malcolm wrote:
You really aren't that dense.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 1:36 AM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:


nyonchung said:
I couldn't vist HHDL birthplace (restrictions applied) but nearby Drotsang, a magnificent Chinese style (but Tibetan buddhist)

Malcolm wrote:
We were not allowed either, but we went anyway, much to the terror of the caretaker when we arrived unannounced. We got a fifteen minute tour because our teacher's 75 year old mother was along for the ride, as well as the senior teachers at the Tibetan Medical College.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 1:31 AM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:



nyonchung said:
Now
in fact doesn't change much as a beginner, in the center, you'll probably have a Bouddha statue,  Tsongkhapa instead of a Karmapa or of Jigten Sumgön or Guru Rinpoché ... daily recitations will be different, basic teachings also - there will be probably a form of lojong (mind training), Kagyü an Gelug tradition come anyway from the same source, Potowa -, and from there Atisha, Serlingpa

Nicholas2727 said:
How would the basic teachings differ between Gelug and Kagyu? Im assuming Gelug would teach more from the Lam Rim and Kagyu from Jewel Ornament of Liberation? Or are you referring to this in a different way?

nyonchung said:
Right, not only Lamrim, but Atisha's "Lamp of Wisdom", but I was thinking to the pratice of tonglen (taking and giving) and its root verses in the Lojong (Basic verses of Mind Training) by Potowa, add Langrithangpa's eight verses, all this part of basic teachings in both schools - add the 37 verses of Ngülchu Thogmé Zangpo (nominally a drugpa-kagyüpa)
There is also Atisha's teachings on the "three classes" of being - Kalu Ripoché's centers were supposed to use Taranatha's commentary (Kyebu Sumgyi Lamrim)

There is an immense Gelug collection commentaries on Kadampa teachings accumulated through centuries, including contemporary ones

Malcolm wrote:
BTW, your use of me is wrong. Should be

"The sky and I don't hold views, etc." "I" is the subject here, not an object, "me."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 1:26 AM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:
nyonchung said:
add the 37 verses of Ngülchu Thogmé Zangpo (nominally a drugpa-kagyüpa)

Malcolm wrote:
Ahem, Sakyapa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 1:11 AM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:
nyonchung said:
Kumbum is now mostly a Chinese tourist destination.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, but it is still a nice place. We also visited HHDL's birthplace on the same day.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, December 9th, 2021 at 12:41 AM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:
nyonchung said:
if somebody refused to visit Ganden monastery or Kumbum, Tsongkhapa's birthplace in Amdo and pay hommage there ...

Malcolm wrote:
Been there, beautiful place.
Tsonghapa's birthplace.jpg (478.91 KiB) Viewed 1831 times


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 11:44 PM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This is not true. For example. Śamathadeva's commentary on the Kośa preserves in its entirety an agamic text called the don dam stong pa nyid kyi mdo. There is another text which provides a canonical source for the term kun rdzob.

Astus said:
That sutra was mentioned by Aemilius, and so I linked its English translation. See https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=610404#p610404. On terminology https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=610610#p610610.

Malcolm wrote:
You said, "did not have the idea of two truths from their sutras."

They most certainly did derive or have their idea of the two truths from their sūtras. Those passages prove it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
Nemo said:
I love how invested you are in capitalist hierarchy. Like debt and money were real things, not created by an elite to maintain control. The strong ruling over the weak is the natural order. It should be celebrated. You net worth is your score in capitalism. So which one are you?

Malcolm wrote:
Your central thesis, that debt and money created by elites to maintain control is an unsupportable assertion. That debt and money can be used that way, however, is certainly true. You might read David Graeber's Debt, the First 5000 Years.

As for myself, I just deal with the practical reality of putting food in my mouth, without getting tangled up in ideologies about economics, certainly Marxism is an abject failure. Capitalism is not going away any time soon. So better get used to it and try and make sure it at least is contained by democratic ideals.

My way of thinking is more result-oriented.  I am more interested in policy than theory.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 10:54 PM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:


nyonchung said:
Certainly views differ (notably on the definition of kyerim and dzogrim) as certainly some Sakyapas don't consider kindly some of Khedrub Jé's view on tantra.

Malcolm wrote:
These things do not matter and should be left to moulder in the 15th century, where they belong.  Every major school of Tibetan Buddhism produces awakened people in every generation, despite differences in explanation and approaches.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 10:47 PM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:
zerwe said:
"The difference between Geluk and Kagyu is guru loyalty."

Also, what exactly are you saying here?

Malcolm wrote:
Some sectarian, triumphalist bullshit, I imagine. But it is pervasive throughout Tibetan Buddhist world, so it is not surprising. Everyone feels their guru is the best, their blessings are the best, their lineage is the best, their practice is the best, their opinion is the best. That's the nature of egotism.

Crazywisdom said:
Let's not pretend we're ecumenical Malcolm. We all know the Geluk view as applied in Vajrayana is considered wrong view in Kagyu and Nyingma.

Malcolm wrote:
No, we do not know this. It's a ridiculous assertion. If it were true, then one would be accusing Jigme Lingpa, Shabkar, Dodrupchen Tenpé Nyima, and so on, of having wrong views, because all these men trained in the Geluk system and promulgated Geluk Yikcha in their monasteries, which remain the curriculum current in most Nyingma monasteries in Golok and Amdo. Moreover, it amounts to a claim that Geluk Vajrayāna is invalid and is incapable of producing awakening. This is a ridiculous assertion and merely shows narrow mindedness and lack of education on the part of those who sponsor such views, no matter who they are are. This is illustrated by the shame expressed by Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok, for example, for having naively criticized the views of Tsongkhapa when he was young, whom he later to came to understand was a great mahasiddha, etc. Just study Tsonghapa's praise to dependent origination. You will be unable to find in it a single fault.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 10:35 PM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Astus said:
In other words, the Sarvastivadins and the Sautrantikas...did not have the idea of two truths from their sutras...

Malcolm wrote:
This is not true. For example. Śamathadeva's commentary on the Kośa preserves in its entirety an agamic text called the don dam stong pa nyid kyi mdo. There is another text which provides a canonical source for the term kun rdzob.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 9:22 PM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
Sādhaka said:
What do you guys think about Thomas Sowell’s talks?

Malcolm wrote:
I strongly disagree with his advocacy of charter schools. I think they are 1) undermining public school education, 2) creating a two tier system that actually privileges white communities and sucks resources away from communities of color, and 3) is a back door for the public funding of religious education.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 10:52 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:


tobes said:
On one level, many of the political benefits we enjoy have arisen out of ideas/theory; kids don't work in Manchester coal mines anymore etc.

Malcolm wrote:
That was not a function of theory. That was a function of empathy.

tobes said:
But, I think we live in a time where theory has become increasingly unhinged from reality, and the dangers of this are all too clear for us to see.

Malcolm wrote:
It's always been unhinged from reality.

tobes said:
Theory played a big role. The labour movement that won many such freedoms is incoherent without notions of 'labour' 'class' 'capital' 'economics' etc. If you're saying that empathy played a role in informing that theory, then sure.

Malcolm wrote:
No, theory did not play any role. People saw their inequality and did something about it, leaving privileged journalists like Marx to write theories about their daily experience, while he pursued his bourgeoise lifestyle, disconnected from their lives.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 6:25 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:


tobes said:
On one level, many of the political benefits we enjoy have arisen out of ideas/theory; kids don't work in Manchester coal mines anymore etc.

Malcolm wrote:
That was not a function of theory. That was a function of empathy.

tobes said:
But, I think we live in a time where theory has become increasingly unhinged from reality, and the dangers of this are all too clear for us to see.

Malcolm wrote:
It's always been unhinged from reality.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 5:55 AM
Title: Re: Two truths in Mahayana Buddhism
Content:
Astus said:
The two truths doctrine is a commentarial development...

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is found in Mahāyāna Sūtras. After all, the thread is called "The Two Truths in Mahāyāna Buddhism."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 1:20 AM
Title: Re: US Election Day Aftermath
Content:
Queequeg said:
Theory is great. Now if we could just get these pesky humans to cooperate. I have a grand plan for all of us!

Malcolm wrote:
The reason for the turn to identity politics to begin with is that after the white labor movement secured their interest following WWII, they abandoned the rest of the working class (blacks, latinos, etc.) completely, whereas before, what they did was ensure blacks, latinos, and so on were just a marginal force.

This is why I completely laugh at white men who spend their time bitching and moaning about identity politics and fantasizing about a return to color-blind class based labor movements (which never existed).

Theory sucks.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 1:00 AM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:
zerwe said:
"The difference between Geluk and Kagyu is guru loyalty."

Also, what exactly are you saying here?

Malcolm wrote:
Some sectarian, triumphalist bullshit, I imagine. But it is pervasive throughout Tibetan Buddhist world, so it is not surprising. Everyone feels their guru is the best, their blessings are the best, their lineage is the best, their practice is the best, their opinion is the best. That's the nature of egotism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, December 8th, 2021 at 12:42 AM
Title: Re: Comparison of Kagyu and Gelug schools?
Content:
Crazywisdom said:
Tsonkhapa made a lineage off of visions.

Malcolm wrote:
And, even if it were true (it isn't), this is a problem because...?


