﻿Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 20th, 2016 at 2:08 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu and Vegetarianism
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
I guess you are not fond of ChNN.

ThoroughlyCutting said:
I've been fond of his teaching, with this as a notable exception. Does one have to eat meat to be his student?

Malcolm wrote:
No, but you will have to hear him endlessly chastise practitioners who refuse to eat meat for this or that reason as people who have "miserable" compassion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 20th, 2016 at 1:38 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu and Vegetarianism
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
I guess you are not fond of ChNN.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 20th, 2016 at 1:32 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2016, part 3
Content:
Rakz said:
Amazing speech by Rudy Giuliani last night at the Republican convention. Gave me goosebumps.

Malcolm wrote:
Welcome to Fascism, American style.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 19th, 2016 at 11:37 PM
Title: Re: Meat-eating and Buddhism.
Content:


TaTa said:
Well karmapa did state that you should use meat in your practices if you are in the level that the actual protector comes to receive it (im paraphrasing). I know he is not your guru but just showing someone opinion like the karmapa who is kind of a big deal to some people.

Malcolm wrote:
Obsession about which food is pure and which food is not belongs to Muslims, Jews, Jains, and Hindus. It is not, and never really has been, a major Buddhist concern. Why? Because liberation is not dependent on one's diet. It is also not dependent on ritual purity, the observance of ethics, etc.

ThoroughlyCutting said:
It's not a matter of pure and impure: those are just concepts - and I'm not obsessed, I'm concerned. It's a matter of looking at the needless suffering endured by others, particularly in (but not limited to) the modern context of mass industrialized farming practices, and knowing that by mere passive non engagement with it one is helping to retard the continued growth of that industry. This is the world we live in, so as bodhisattvas it seems imperitive that we do our part to make it better, no? Of course I'm not trying to make a dogmatic statement: for those who have the realization to help others by consuming their flesh, that's a skillful means. Examination of motivation is key to the whole enterprise of Dharma, as I understand it. Liberation is predicated upon recognition of the natural state, the relative expression of which is boundless compassion and wisdom, according to my teachers and what I've read, and there seems to be no contradiction between that and living as ethically and mindfully as possible - one of the results of which is, after one has examined the source one's food, to limit as much as possible the damage done by its cultivation. I doubt very much that I'm mistaken in this, but please let me know if i can refine my thinking.

Also, why is the comment about the requirement of a high degree of realization incorrect?

Malcolm wrote:
We can try and correct samsara, but we won't succeed.

We try to observe ahimsa, non-harming, as much as possible. As Bhavaviveka points out, one cannot harm a sentient being who is already dead. Therefore, eating meat causes no suffering, just as eating bread causes no suffering, provided that you did not slaughter the animal yourself, etc. All the various themes about this have been hashed out in this thread long ago.

The reason your statement is incorrect is simply that it is. There are many methods one can use to create a good cause for a given sentient being that do not require one to be a first stage bodhisattva on up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 19th, 2016 at 11:04 PM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
Dan74: Nicholas, do you actually take on board anything people reply to you?
Yes, but since the responses rarely address the link or the points I make, but just blow them off as unworthy, or misguided or uninformed or poorly motivated, I similarly blow off the automatic responses of those who cannot see the vast difference between the systemic horrors of communism and the far freer West.  Why so eager to defend communism and dump on the West?

Malcolm wrote:
There are no Communist governments anymore. They lost.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 19th, 2016 at 4:46 AM
Title: Re: 5 precepts. Alcohol?
Content:
Rakz said:
Most people can't handle alcohol so it would be wise to do what the supreme Buddha of our time (Shakyamuni) said about this. Just say No. Where is the willpower these days?

Malcolm wrote:
This is the fallacy called Argumentum ad populum.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 19th, 2016 at 4:41 AM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:
vinegar said:
Kedrup Je states that wet&flowing is a common base for the 3 persons, 1 establishes water 1 nectar 1 pus n blood, due to their individual karma acting as contributing causes

There is only 1 object there, with several parts.  There is only 1 world.

Malcolm wrote:
A proposition masterfully refuted by Gorampa.

vinegar said:
I know have you translated it?  I can't remember the name of the book which compared the 2 views..

Malcolm wrote:
Jose Cabezon published a version of it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 19th, 2016 at 12:04 AM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:


Lukeinaz said:
That's a bit much...

Malcolm wrote:
Show the flaw in the reasoning.

Lukeinaz said:
Is it ok to say a conventional truth is true in relation to a deluded mind?

Malcolm wrote:
Of course, since there are levels of delusion.


Lukeinaz said:
In this respect a deluded mind can still make distinctions such as the difference between a red and green apple, virtue and non-virtue, ect.  While valid distinctions can be made the deluded mind misapprehends the object and is therefore said to be mistaken.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, deluded minds can make conventionally valid distinctions. It does not mean however they are not mistaken about the actual nature of apples, etc., and therefore, since they are deluded about the appearance they are distinguishing as this or that thing, they can be deluded while still making conventionally valid distinctions.

You seem to disagree when you said: We don't make much of a distinction between waking and dreaming, false relative truth and correct relative truth. The latter distinction, especially from the point of view of Dzogchen, are largely unimportant.
This is because here, the perspective concerns leaving all delusion behind.



but now you seem to agree:
..Prasangika assents that there must be a common appearance in order to have any sort of meaningful discussion— it is the very definition of the difference between correct relative truth and false relative truth; the difference between everyone seeing one moon in the sky, and a drunk seeing two moons.
Candrakīrti states without any qualification that there are two modes of perception, true and false. Under the mode of perception that is false, we have two kinds of relative truths, true and false.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 18th, 2016 at 10:12 PM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:
vinegar said:
Kedrup Je states that wet&flowing is a common base for the 3 persons, 1 establishes water 1 nectar 1 pus n blood, due to their individual karma acting as contributing causes

There is only 1 object there, with several parts.  There is only 1 world.

Malcolm wrote:
A proposition masterfully refuted by Gorampa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 18th, 2016 at 9:37 PM
Title: Re: At least 77 dead in attack in Nice
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 18th, 2016 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: At least 77 dead in attack in Nice
Content:
Rakz said:
There's a huge number of Evangelicals in the country but I have yet to come across one Evangelical politician who is proposing these types of things. Meanwhile in Muslim countries...

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.au.org/church-state/february-2010-church-state/people-events/religious-right-activist-calls-for-execution


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 18th, 2016 at 2:23 AM
Title: Re: At least 77 dead in attack in Nice
Content:


Rakz said:
Forget the test, we should also allow Muslim-Americans who believe in Shariah to stone to death people, chop off hands and heads etc. in their community because that is what their religion states. We as Americans should respect the religious practices of others (regardless how barbaric they are) because by not respecting them we are "trashing our values" and not adhering to the constitution and bill of rights.

Malcolm wrote:
"Sharia law" is just a dog whistle to muster up hate against Muslims. There are plenty of white Christians in America who think we should be implementing the punishments found in Leviticus, such as:
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Or:
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
Or in other books of the OT:
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die.
Or:
They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
But in this country, no one is suggesting that we give a test to fundamentalist Christians to see whether or not they agree with the sentiments found in the Old Testament.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 18th, 2016 at 2:08 AM
Title: Re: Meat-eating and Buddhism.
Content:
ThoroughlyCutting said:
Quickly stated: To form a connection with an animal by eating its meat and thus bringing it closer to liberation, one must be possessed of the powers of someone like Tilopa.

Malcolm wrote:
This is false.

ThoroughlyCutting said:
Otherwise, it's very hard to realistically call yourself a practitioner of Dharma if you willy-nilly engage in the ghoulish behaviour of eating meat.

Malcolm wrote:
If you don't want to eat meat, you are not required to.

[mods, please move these posts to the great vegetarian thread.]

TaTa said:
Well karmapa did state that you should use meat in your practices if you are in the level that the actual protector comes to receive it (im paraphrasing). I know he is not your guru but just showing someone opinion like the karmapa who is kind of a big deal to some people.

Malcolm wrote:
Obsession about which food is pure and which food is not belongs to Muslims, Jews, Jains, and Hindus. It is not, and never really has been, a major Buddhist concern. Why? Because liberation is not dependent on one's diet. It is also not dependent on ritual purity, the observance of ethics, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 18th, 2016 at 12:30 AM
Title: Re: No Difference in Results?
Content:
tomamundsen said:
Hi all,

I am working through Mipham's commentary on Padmasambhava's Garland of Views right now and I came across this passage: The Bodhisattva Vehicle takes its name from its cause. Its result is no different from that of the secret mantras, so both the Mantra Vehicle and the vehicle of the transcendent perfections constitute the same Great Vehicle.
To be clear, the text presents the Great Perfection as falling under the category of the Mantra Vehicle. I am taken aback by this passage, because I thought the 13th and 16th bhumi, especially the Rainbow Body of Great Transference, was a different result than sutra Buddhahood. I've heard before that the Rainbow Body implies more capacity for emanations than other kinds of Buddhahood, but I can't say I've heard that from a source as definitive as Mipham here. So, can anyone help to clarify?

Thanks

Malcolm wrote:
It means that the desired goal is no different. It does not mean that the actual means to accomplish that goal exist in sūtra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 18th, 2016 at 12:28 AM
Title: Re: Meat-eating and Buddhism.
Content:
ThoroughlyCutting said:
Quickly stated: To form a connection with an animal by eating its meat and thus bringing it closer to liberation, one must be possessed of the powers of someone like Tilopa.

Malcolm wrote:
This is false.

ThoroughlyCutting said:
Otherwise, it's very hard to realistically call yourself a practitioner of Dharma if you willy-nilly engage in the ghoulish behaviour of eating meat.

Malcolm wrote:
If you don't want to eat meat, you are not required to.

[mods, please move these posts to the great vegetarian thread.]


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 17th, 2016 at 4:43 AM
Title: Re: Help Me Understand....
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
As I mentioned above, there are many people who do not understand the distinction between the basis and the path. There are many refutations of the point of view expressed by some people in the internet with in the Dzogchen tantras themselves, notably, the Six Dimensions of Samantabhadra and its commentary.

manjusri said:
Thanks for responding, Malcolm. Is there an English translation of this text? A cursory search on Google failed to bring anything up?

Malcolm wrote:
Sorry, this book has not been translated into English. If my merit and karma permit, however, I intend to get to it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 17th, 2016 at 4:39 AM
Title: Re: On the fringe and on the fence - questions from a would be tantric
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Also, in both cases he did not manifest as a monk, but as a Sambhogakāya deity in union with a consort.

Virgo said:
My good friends,  I just cannot support this anymore, sorry.  Many thanks.

Kevin


Malcolm wrote:
?????


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 17th, 2016 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: Help Me Understand....
Content:
manjusri said:
No one else here whose understanding of Dzogchen aligns with Jackson Peterson's? Is he considered that much of an outlier?

Another thing that stands out for me about his approach: apparently he doesn't see much point in ngödro? Or being more circumspect regarding Dzogchen's dissemination to one and all?

In a recent post, he mentioned that Dzogchen practitioners in Tibet commonly spend 8-10 years on trekchö and 8 years on Thögal and yet seemingly in the same breath states that the Dzogchen tantras explain why practice and seeking are obstacles to seeing what already is. My question to him, which never got a response: if practice is regarded as an obstacle to what already is, then why do those in Tibet spend 8-10 years on Trekchö and 8 years on Thögal?

Malcolm wrote:
As I mentioned above, there are many people who do not understand the distinction between the basis and the path. There are many refutations of the point of view expressed by some people in the internet with in the Dzogchen tantras themselves, notably, the Six Dimensions of Samantabhadra and its commentary.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 17th, 2016 at 12:34 AM
Title: Re: On the fringe and on the fence - questions from a would be tantric
Content:


paganfear said:
Regarding the importance of Buddha Shakyamuni actually teaching Vajrayana...

Malcolm wrote:
In general, Buddha Śakyamuni taught only the lower tantras, Kriya, Carya and Yoga, and not in this human dimension.

kirtu said:
Of course he also taught Kalachakra in this human world, just to a handful of humans and a large number of beings from other realms.

Kirt

Malcolm wrote:
Sort of, it is said he manifested the Kalacakra Mandala inside the Dhyanakata Stupa in South India at the same time he was teaching the Prajñapāramitā at Rajagriha, but he did not actually teach the Kalacakra Tantra. The same goes for Guhyasamaja.

Also, in both cases he did not manifest as a monk, but as a Sambhogakāya deity in union with a consort.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 16th, 2016 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: On the fringe and on the fence - questions from a would be tantric
Content:


paganfear said:
Regarding the importance of Buddha Shakyamuni actually teaching Vajrayana...

Malcolm wrote:
In general, Buddha Śakyamuni taught only the lower tantras, Kriya, Carya and Yoga, and not in this human dimension.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 16th, 2016 at 4:49 AM
Title: Re: Response to Wrong Views?
Content:



Johnny Dangerous said:
What is the best response to these things though?

Malcolm wrote:
Compassion and a personal commitment to see the real nature of the mind that generates such a hatred.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 16th, 2016 at 4:31 AM
Title: Re: Response to Wrong Views?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
We are all tainted by the three poisons. But in this epoch, we are especially tainted by hatred. What is hatred? It is not anger, nor merely enmity, nor a grudge. Hatred is the wish that some being or something cease to exist.

We should keep this definition in mind when we are discussing politics, because the attachments and aversions implicit in hatred can be a real trap we may not notice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 16th, 2016 at 3:40 AM
Title: Re: Response to Wrong Views?
Content:
Karma Dorje said:
Who said anything about "destiny". The reality of Dharma is that if you have no connection to the teachings, you won't find them. If you have a connection to the teachings, you won't be able to avoid them. This is just a question of samskara and punya. The teachers that came here spoke to those who were interested. They did not climb on soapboxes to proselytize. Did we appear in the West in conjunction with the teachers who brought the teachings here? Obviously. If someone is interested, we must teach them to whatever capacity we have. If they aren't interested, we should really keep our mouths shut.

Queequeg said:
How exactly does tendency toward enlightenment start? Where does the accumulation of merit commence? Can you categorically say it does not start with outreach?

Malcolm wrote:
The tendency towards awakening begins with the wish to escape suffering. The accumulation of merit begins when you wish others to escape suffering before you yourself escape suffering, just as when, under an ancient Śakyamuni, the being who eventually became our Śakyamuni wished that the guardians of hell torment him rather than the other beings in the hell realms.

Of course, any being who avoids the ten natural nonvirtues is accumulating (transient) merit as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 16th, 2016 at 2:07 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
maybay said:
That's probably because you have not understood why I asked it.

Malcolm wrote:
It was a quip, not to be taken seriously.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 16th, 2016 at 1:54 AM
Title: Re: At least 77 dead in attack in Nice
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Frankly all, there is absolutely nothing of use that we can say about this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 16th, 2016 at 1:27 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
maybay said:
Srivijaya was not asking about the quote I provided.

Malcolm wrote:
He did not ask anything at all about the term "byang chub sems." Only you did.

maybay said:
Its strange, I don't usually feel regret after such a question.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't usually feel regret after answering such questions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 10:08 PM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
maybay said:
Srivijaya was not asking about the quote I provided.

Malcolm wrote:
He did not ask anything at all about the term "byang chub sems." Only you did.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 11:16 AM
Title: Re: Guru Yoga Sutra Mahamudra
Content:
smcj said:
I'm no expert on this, but HYT has three sections: Father, Mother, and Non-Dual. I have been led to believe that they loosely correspond to the Maha, Anu, and Ati Yogas.

Malcolm wrote:
No, this kind of statement is politics. But it is not accurate at all.

smcj said:
I must say that I am somewhat dismayed by how much resistance there is to the practices of creation and completion on a website dedicated to Mahayana and Vajrayana.

Malcolm wrote:
Zen people, etc., do not practice the two stages. Why are you surprised by this?

In India, there was a whole movement lead by such masters as Shrī Simha that basically argued that the creation stage is of no importance whatsoever. Only the perfection stage is of any import. Such a practice is called "Great Perfection," but even that practice is "Great Perfection practice" in name only.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 11:10 AM
Title: Re: Guru Yoga Sutra Mahamudra
Content:
BuddhaFollower said:
HYT is not Mahayoga, Anuyoga or Atiyoga.

Malcolm wrote:
It corresponds to Mahāyoga. For example, Guhyasamaja was translated during the early dispensation. It is considered Mahāyoga.

BuddhaFollower said:
Yes I know it corresponds to Mahāyoga. But its not Mahāyoga.

Malcolm wrote:
Why do you think so?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 11:04 AM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:
Herbie said:
1. Identifying a view as Svantantrika is no accusation. it is just an ascertainment.

Malcolm wrote:
Unless you are in fact uncertain, which you are.

Herbie said:
And talking about common appearances as a prerequisite for communication is definitely the Svatantrika view of inherent existence (Svatantrika at best).

Malcolm wrote:
No, even Prasangika assents that there must be a common appearance in order to have any sort of meaningful discussion— it is the very definition of the difference between correct relative truth and false relative truth; the difference between everyone seeing one moon in the sky, and a drunk seeing two moons.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 6:35 AM
Title: Re: Guru Yoga Sutra Mahamudra
Content:
smcj said:
I think Guru Yoga of any type is a hallmark of Highest Yoga Tantra (Maha, Anu, Ati Yoga).

BuddhaFollower said:
HYT is not Mahayoga, Anuyoga or Atiyoga.


Malcolm wrote:
It corresponds to Mahāyoga. For example, Guhyasamaja was translated during the early dispensation. It is considered Mahāyoga.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 6:34 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
maybay said:
What is byang chub sems?

Malcolm wrote:
In the quotation you provided, bodhicitta, byang chub sems, was translated as "pure (byang) and total (chub) consciousness (sems)."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 5:09 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
maybay said:
No that's just the formless realm.

Malcolm wrote:
No, that is an error-- consciousness in the formless realms has an aspect, i.e., the aspect of samadhi one holds as an intellectual idea, such a space, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 4:57 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
smcj said:
...ChNN does also prescribe a type of Guru Yoga (presumably to cultivate faith and devotion) to facilitate Dzogchen as well.

Malcolm wrote:
That depends on what you mean by faith.

Dzogchen is a direct perception. Guru Yoga is a way of entering that direct perception. But ChNN never teaches guruyoga in the traditional sense of developing an attitude of yearning, tears flowing, etc. He never recommends any kind of contrived practice, whether it is the contrived generation of bodhicitta or the contrivance of faith in a teacher.

When I say Dzogchen is not faith based, it is because for example, the so called natural nirmanakāya buddhafields are one's own (sambhogakāya) appearances, they are not somewhere else that someone goes after passing through the bardo of rebirth.

chimechodra said:
Is that "attitude of yearning/tears/etc." mainly a characteristic of tantric guru yoga that is not shared with Dzogchen? Or is just a simple difference in teaching styles between different teachers?

Malcolm wrote:
it is difference in styles, mainly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 4:20 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
maybay said:
I mean where earth, water, fire, air find no footing is not necessarily free from dualistic extremes.

Malcolm wrote:
what about:

How about "here long & short, coarse & fine, fair & foul, and name & form are all brought to an end."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 4:17 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
AlexMcLeod said:
Going by Malcolm's logic, one could even say that all paths have a 100% success rate, if you allow for enough time. Because over an infinite time scale, all possible events will occur an infinite number of times.

A better way to judge teachings than based upon the words of another, are to compare the average "good student" to see which have developed the Enlightenment factors prescribed by the Buddha. This should at least tell you enough about a lineage before jumping in to determine if you will really be heading in the right direction.

By this logic, one can tell that many lineages do indeed head in the right direction, even if the aspirants all argue over whose methods are better at leading people to enlightenment, and what bodhi really even means.

Malcolm wrote:
If you have generated even a semblance of bodhicitta, eventually, you realize buddhahood. But as you say, the timeframe is inconceivable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 4:06 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:


chimechodra said:
Loppon, is this dependent on anything specific, e.g. daily AGY, removing doubts about the natural state, etc.? Or is simply having received DI (with or without having recognized rigpa) enough for one to never return to samsara again?

Malcolm wrote:
It is dependent upon studying properly with a master who understands Dzogchen.

chimechodra said:
How would you define "studying properly?" My two main teachers (so far) are Shenphen Dawa Rinpoche and Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. I'm confident both understand Dzogchen. Is it simply listening to their instructions and teachings, applying them, and just doing your best and trying to follow that to the best of your ability?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. One generally does not understand Dzogchen over night, unless you belong to certain facebook groups...( )


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 3:59 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
maybay said:
They're not the same, not in meaning nor in text.

Malcolm wrote:
You mean there is a difference between rang byung ye shes and byang chub sems?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Oh yes? And therefore all the stuff about the 21 capacities and the nirmanakaya buddhafields must be true?

Malcolm wrote:
No one is twisting your arm. There remain people today who are quite convinced the moon landing was a hoax, shot in Arizona.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 2:18 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
It is dependent upon studying properly with a master who understands Dzogchen.
How do you know that?

Malcolm wrote:
I have studied properly with more than one master who understands Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 15th, 2016 at 1:53 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:


Tao said:
Just after empowerment? before or later?

Is not Rainbow body the stage of full enlightement?

Forgive my ignorance...

Malcolm wrote:
No problem. There are 21 capacities of Dzogchen practitioners divided into best, medium and average. The best achieve buddhahood in this life. The next 19 achieve buddhahood in the bardo. The last, the average of the average, achieve buddhahood in a nirmanakāya buddhafield without ever returning to samsara.

chimechodra said:
Loppon, is this dependent on anything specific, e.g. daily AGY, removing doubts about the natural state, etc.? Or is simply having received DI (with or without having recognized rigpa) enough for one to never return to samsara again?

Malcolm wrote:
It is dependent upon studying properly with a master who understands Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 9:46 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
smcj said:
And given that ChNN prescribes that practice for people that are having a problem with DI, that perspective makes total sense.

Malcolm wrote:
Guru Yoga is DI.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 9:20 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Simon E. said:
...this has resulted in a phenomenon called Brexit Remorse...its sufferers are known as 'Regretters'...
The moral?
Dont decide matters of vital National import by referenda.

Malcolm wrote:
Should it not be Bremorse and Bregetters?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 9:09 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
...But ChNN never teaches guruyoga in the traditional sense of developing an attitude of yearning, tears flowing, etc. He never recommends any kind of contrived practice, whether it is the contrived generation of bodhicitta or the contrivance of faith in a teacher.

smcj said:
I've been curious about ChNN's take on Guru Yoga for those types of reasons. I like the fact that he de-emphasises the personage of the guru by going directly to the "AH". You avoid the potential mistake of making it a personality cult that way. But other than that I've never seen an explanation or commentary on what else he means by "Guru Yoga" that is in any way different than the standard presentation.

If you'd care to elaborate I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be interested.

Malcolm wrote:
He means rigpa. That is guru yoga.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 8:39 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
smcj said:
...ChNN does also prescribe a type of Guru Yoga (presumably to cultivate faith and devotion) to facilitate Dzogchen as well.

Malcolm wrote:
That depends on what you mean by faith.

Dzogchen is a direct perception. Guru Yoga is a way of entering that direct perception. But ChNN never teaches guruyoga in the traditional sense of developing an attitude of yearning, tears flowing, etc. He never recommends any kind of contrived practice, whether it is the contrived generation of bodhicitta or the contrivance of faith in a teacher.

When I say Dzogchen is not faith based, it is because for example, the so called natural nirmanakāya buddhafields are one's own (sambhogakāya) appearances, they are not somewhere else that someone goes after passing through the bardo of rebirth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 8:32 PM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The view is self-originated pristine consciousness, free from the extreme of the dualism of an apprehended object and an apprehending subject.
— Self-Liberated Vidyā Tantra

srivijaya said:
Brilliant quote.

Not unlike Viññanam anidassanam from the Kevatta sutta: Consciousness without feature, without end, luminous all around
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.11.0.than.html

Malcolm wrote:
It has precisely the same meaning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 7:17 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:


maybay said:
Maybe I just prefer "Listen, great being, and understand!" to "Oh, son of a good family"

Malcolm wrote:
There isn't any difference. It is like preferring gold over gold.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 6:34 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
maybay said:
It's probably a mistake.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it most certainly isn't, since this has been checked against multiple recensions.

maybay said:
Well then it should be qualified to make the meaning clear.
The view [of the primordial state] is self-originated pristine consciousness, free from the extreme of the dualism of an apprehended object and an apprehending subject.

Malcolm wrote:
More context, which will either increase your prapañca, or eliminate it:
Oh, son of a good family, the transcendent state of buddhahood is seamless. There is neither depletion nor vacuity in suchness itself. The view is self-originated pristine consciousness, free from the extreme of the dualism of an apprehended object and an apprehending subject. The field of pure pristine consciousness is free from the extremes of wide or narrow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 6:07 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
maybay said:
It's probably a mistake.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it most certainly isn't, since this has been checked against multiple recensions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 5:04 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
maybay said:
Secret mantra is concerned with taking a different viewpoint / a different point of view. I would translate as
This view is self-originated pristine consciousness, free from the extreme of the dualism of an apprehended object and an apprehending subject.


Malcolm wrote:
But, there is no 'di', this in the passage from which it is taken.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 2:43 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
maybay said:
A view is an orientation..

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, yes. In Secret Mantra, no.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 2:28 AM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The view is self-originated pristine consciousness, free from the extreme of the dualism of an apprehended object and an apprehending subject.
— Self-Liberated Vidyā Tantra


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 2:19 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa/Ngakma Teachers?
Content:
BuddhaFollower said:
So is Dudjom Tröma Nagmo the ultimate cycle since it has:

Chöd
Ngagpa hair empowerment
Creation stage
Completion stage
Trekcho
Tho***

tomamundsen said:
Question... I see the hair empowerment being mentioned quite a bit. Is there an additional hair empowerment aside from the one in the standard Troma empowerment? Otherwise, I'm a little confused as to why the hair empowerment is mentioned so frequently, but others, for example, the earring empowerment, meditation belt empowerment, zen empowerment, tent empowerment, and so on, aren't mentioned as much. So, is there another hair empowerment that is done for particularly committed practitioners? Or is it just a coincidence that it has been talked about more frequently?

Malcolm wrote:
People freak out about not  cutting their hair. Also, while the other implements are part of the general empowerment text, the hair empowerment is found in a separate text and must be added.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 1:19 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In any case, the only way one can confirm whether what I am saying is true or not (it is true, according the texts), is to actually discover what Dzogchen is. That discovery will never happen on an internet forum.

Astus said:
Same could be said about the Pure Land path. Looks like there are more similarities than one would expect.

Malcolm wrote:
Words might seem the same, the meaning is completely different. But you won't be able to ascertain that without studying Dzogchen under a master. Anyone can decide to practice Nem Butsu, for example, at any time, with no instruction at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 1:18 AM
Title: Re: 8 lines of praise to Heruka and Vajrayogini
Content:
Tigersnest said:
Is there a sanskrit version available or in circulation of these prayers?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, you can find it David Gray's translation of the root tantra.

Nyedrag Yeshe said:
If one is initiated into Heruka or the Mother, but doesn't have the lung, can one still recite the praise?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, since it is part of the initiation text.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but your error is claiming that both are faith-based. One is, the other is not.

Astus said:
Do you mean that with Dzogchen you necessarily gain the divine eye and can perceive other practitioners attaining buddhahood in the intermediate state and in buddha-lands?

Malcolm wrote:
This and other qualities may arise, but it really isn't the main point.

In any case, the only way one can confirm whether what I am saying is true or not (it is true, according the texts), is to actually discover what Dzogchen is. That discovery will never happen on an internet forum.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 14th, 2016 at 12:37 AM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:


Tao said:
Just after empowerment? before or later?

Is not Rainbow body the stage of full enlightement?

Forgive my ignorance...

Malcolm wrote:
No problem. There are 21 capacities of Dzogchen practitioners divided into best, medium and average. The best achieve buddhahood in this life. The next 19 achieve buddhahood in the bardo. The last, the average of the average, achieve buddhahood in a nirmanakāya buddhafield without ever returning to samsara.

frank123 said:
Isn't there an element of faith in your statements here? How can you know this to be the truth first hand?

Malcolm wrote:
When one understands that the teaching of the Great Perfection is based on direct perception, and not theories, concepts, and so on, then you can understand that there is no need to take anything on faith at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 13th, 2016 at 11:16 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, of course you don't see any difference between Dzogchen and Pure Land because you do not know Dzogchen and thus do not understand its path. That can be remedied.

Astus said:
I didn't say their paths are the same, but their promises of success are very close.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but your error is claiming that both are faith-based. One is, the other is not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 13th, 2016 at 10:01 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
If you believe that, then practice Pure Land. If you don't, practice something else.

Astus said:
I don't see much difference between the Dzogchen and the Pure Land version. And that difference is the very small percentage of superior practitioners who achieve buddhahood in this life, while the rest are beyond normal human perception, just like the Pure Land itself. Apparently both have a faith based 100% success rate.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, of course you don't see any difference between Dzogchen and Pure Land because you do not know Dzogchen and thus do not understand its path. That can be remedied.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 13th, 2016 at 9:43 PM
Title: Re: `View` is a concept, right ?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No, view is not a concept, at least, not in Vajrayāna.


Manju said:
Am listening to Alan Wallace on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8M7cADCPZ8

The first minutes of the interview make me ask a question which sort of was lingering in my mind for some time already:

`View` is a concept, right (Alan Wallace says `theory` in the interview) ?

It`s the concept about how `things are`.

The correct concept among myriads of wrong ones so to speak.

Something seems profoundly wrong in this (my) way of defining `View`and I am not quite sure what it is.



Manju


.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 13th, 2016 at 9:42 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No problem. There are 21 capacities of Dzogchen practitioners divided into best, medium and average. The best achieve buddhahood in this life. The next 19 achieve buddhahood in the bardo. The last, the average of the average, achieve buddhahood in a nirmanakāya buddhafield without ever returning to samsara.

Anders said:
On that note, I guess we can also say:
Pure Land: 100%

Malcolm wrote:
If you believe that, then practice Pure Land. If you don't, practice something else.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 13th, 2016 at 7:01 PM
Title: Re: Ngakpa/Ngakma Teachers?
Content:


heart said:
Many great Dzogchen practitioners did the Throma cycle from Dudjom Tersar, I think that is pretty much a fact.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
There is most assuredly intimate instructions for practicing Dzogchen in the Troma cycle; they just have nothing to do with the deity yoga part.

Any practices of either the two accumulations or the two stages concerns the generation of favorable conditions for Dzogchen practice, or the elimination of unfavorable conditions. But they are all secondary practices.

heart said:
There is nothing stopping anyone from abide in the natural state during development stage practice, and according to Tulku Urgyen it is in fact necessary in order to realise the deity. It seems the line between secondary and primary practices becomes a little hazy after being introduced to the natural state, at least in the Nyingma. But you know what I think about this, I am just repeating myself.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, which means deity practice is secondary, not primary.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 13th, 2016 at 9:06 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa/Ngakma Teachers?
Content:


tomamundsen said:
Interesting, thanks Loppon

Malcolm wrote:
If you are not a Dzogchen practitioner, than creation and completion are your main practice. But if you are actually practicing Dzogchen, everything else is a secondary practice.

heart said:
Many great Dzogchen practitioners did the Throma cycle from Dudjom Tersar, I think that is pretty much a fact.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
There is most assuredly intimate instructions for practicing Dzogchen in the Troma cycle; they just have nothing to do with the deity yoga part.

Any practices of either the two accumulations or the two stages concerns the generation of favorable conditions for Dzogchen practice, or the elimination of unfavorable conditions. But they are all secondary practices.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 13th, 2016 at 4:14 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa/Ngakma Teachers?
Content:
tomamundsen said:
Isn't "The Quintessential Accomplishment in Accordance with the Lineage of the Vajra Essence" (medium-length Troma sadhana) a Dzogchen practice?


Malcolm wrote:
No, dude, if it has creation and completion it is not Dzogchen practice, no matter how you slice it up or give it fancy names.

tomamundsen said:
Interesting, thanks Loppon

Malcolm wrote:
If you are not a Dzogchen practitioner, than creation and completion are your main practice. But if you are actually practicing Dzogchen, everything else is a secondary practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 13th, 2016 at 3:29 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2016, part 2
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Hardly, Sanders has said from the beginning of his campaign that he would back whoever the Dem nominee was. That said, I am not voting for her.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 13th, 2016 at 3:08 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa/Ngakma Teachers?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The Troma cycle is quote lengthy. The Dzogchen part of it does not even involve practicing Troma at all.

tomamundsen said:
Isn't "The Quintessential Accomplishment in Accordance with the Lineage of the Vajra Essence" (medium-length Troma sadhana) a Dzogchen practice?


Malcolm wrote:
No, dude, if it has creation and completion it is not Dzogchen practice, no matter how you slice it up or give it fancy names.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 13th, 2016 at 2:30 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa/Ngakma Teachers?
Content:
ampina08 said:
By the way, has anyone here taken the Troma empowerment by LPD or know if it will include the empowerment or teachings on all parts of the practice, like ngondro? I would be traveling from quite a ways away, and want to leave knowing I'll have a good amount of information to be able to start and do the practice.



Malcolm wrote:
The Troma cycle is quote lengthy. The Dzogchen part of it does not even involve practicing Troma at all.

You will undoubtedly be given the short sadhana to practice, and perhaps the Troma Ngondro.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: Liberation upon Seeing?
Content:
dzoki said:
I live in Slovakia now. I still do Kagyu (Drikung and Karma Kagyu) practices as a part of my daily practice and continue to receive their teaching, whenever possible, so you could consider me a Kagyu practitioner, or Kagyu-Nyingma practitioner, though I don´t really have any sectarian allegiances at present, nor do I want to have

Malcolm wrote:
I don't have sectarian preferences either, and I do accept that the practice of Vajrayāna paths of the four schools can bear the same result. But I no longer have much interest in any teachings outside of Dzogchen. Life is just too short, and getting shorter every second.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 10:21 PM
Title: Re: Liberation upon Seeing?
Content:
smcj said:
In general among standard daily practices you have guruyoga of Milarepa, guruyoga of 4 sessions, short Milarepa guruyoga....
You seem to know more about this than I do. I don't know who you are, but I guess from now on I'll have to defer to you like I do to Cone.

You wouldn't have happened to have just been at the N.A. Monlam would you?

Malcolm wrote:
He is from Eastern Europe. Maybe an ex-Kagyu...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 8:50 PM
Title: Re: Liberation upon Seeing?
Content:
smcj said:
However I've met western 3 year retreat graduates that have had zero exposure to Dzogchen.

Malcolm wrote:
Yet, they all have certainly received such empowerments as Shitro, Amitabha, various forms of Guru Rinpoche, etc., all of which are essentially practices grounded in Dzogchen view, meditation and practice, as is the Karma Pakshi Ladrub.

I understand that given the close connection between Nyingma and Karma Kagyu, sometimes it is a struggle for Karma Kagyu to maintain its separate identity. It is no secret, for example, that Kongtrul's own personal practice was Dzogchen, specifically based around the Konchog Chidu cycle.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 8:35 PM
Title: Re: Liberation upon Seeing?
Content:
smcj said:
And btw, generally Karma Kagyupas practice Mahamudra, not Dzogchen. They think it's better than Dzogchen.

Malcolm wrote:
No, they don't think it is better. They think that most people do not have the capacity for Dzogchen. If they thought that Mahāmudra was better, why is it that most Karma Kagyu practices are termas?

dzoki said:
I think it is quite far fetched to say that most of Karma Kagyu practices are termas. Most of daily practices are certainly not terma, also what is practiced in retreat is mostly Karma Kagyu compositions and not terma.

As for dzogchen, most of Karma Kagyupa´s that I have met consider mahamudra and dzogchen to be equal, their reasoning is that there is no higher state than the natural state of mind, which is the state of mahamudra and dzogchen, so in their view there is no difference between the two (when it comes to one being higher and the other being lower).

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, there is a very funny interaction between Kalu Rinpoche and Dudjom Rinpoche over this very question, with Dudjom Rinpoche pointing out that all of Kalu RInpoche's own daily practices were in fact from the terma tradition.

I don't know about other centers, but at KTD, which is in Woodstock, NY, most of the daily practice are termas. And just look at their catalogue of publications:

http://www.kagyu.org/ktdpub/catalog/web/viewer.html

and,

http://www.namsebangdzo.com/Pecha_s/2548.htm

Absolutely most of the daily practices they sell on their website are termas.

Their three year retreat program is a different thing, but of course, the Karma Pakshi Guru Sadhana is a major thing, yet another terma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 8:24 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2016, part 2
Content:
mossy said:
and he just burned out. back to the way he was at the start of the race.

Malcolm wrote:
You might think Sanders burned out. But at least he did not self-immolate like this guy:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 8:14 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen, 100%.

Tao said:
Just after empowerment? before or later?

Is not Rainbow body the stage of full enlightement?

Forgive my ignorance...

Malcolm wrote:
No problem. There are 21 capacities of Dzogchen practitioners divided into best, medium and average. The best achieve buddhahood in this life. The next 19 achieve buddhahood in the bardo. The last, the average of the average, achieve buddhahood in a nirmanakāya buddhafield without ever returning to samsara.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 8:07 PM
Title: Re: Enlightenment success rate
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen, 100%.


Tao said:
Not sure if this is the right place for this request but here I go.

I'm looking for references about enlightenment success rate references in any kind of buddhist doctrine or collective.

For example I recall reading in some book by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal (I think it was "Clarifying the natural state") that two thirds of the monks with some master reached the one-taste Mahamudra yoga but none of them was into non-meditation yoga.

I'm sorry for not being more specific in my example I can't recall more details...

Are there other references like this? (Mahayana or Vajrayana)

Thank you a lot.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 7:54 PM
Title: Re: Liberation upon Seeing?
Content:
smcj said:
And btw, generally Karma Kagyupas practice Mahamudra, not Dzogchen. They think it's better than Dzogchen.

Malcolm wrote:
No, they don't think it is better. They think that most people do not have the capacity for Dzogchen. If they thought that Mahāmudra was better, why is it that most Karma Kagyu practices are termas?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 10:12 AM
Title: Re: How to drop effort
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Like the title says. Could have put it in the Mahamudra section too I guess.

How do you drop effort, without producing more effort?

Malcolm wrote:
Drop dropping.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 5:24 AM
Title: Re: Liberation upon Seeing?
Content:
naljor said:
what may be considered Liberation upon Seeing?

Malcolm wrote:
First of all, one must understand that the six liberations, through seeing, hearing, smell, taste, touch and mind are exclusively a part of Dzogchen intimate instruction series teachings.

Liberation through seeing can be in the form of statues, mantras, and so on are that are recommended as such for such purposes. Of course, this idea has become popular, so it is natural that we see somewhat wider application of this principle in some schools outside of Nyingma. But the idea belongs to Dzogchen.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 3:06 AM
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger now a vegan
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Have you seen Bill Clinton lately, he looks like a vegan zombie.

dzogchungpa said:
Is he actually a vegan?
See e.g. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/13/fashion/dr-mark-hyman-clintons-health.html

Malcolm wrote:
Impermanence...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: Arnold Schwarzenegger now a vegan
Content:
David N. Snyder said:
Tough guys who are vegan:

Mike Tyson, former heavy-weight boxing champion is a vegan.

Now Arnold Schwarzenegger has become a vegan.

http://yournewswire.com/arnold-schwarzenegger-ive-given-up-meat-for-the-benefit-of-humanity/

Malcolm wrote:
Undoubtedly because they both have heart problems. Have you seen Bill Clinton lately, he looks like a vegan zombie.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 12th, 2016 at 2:12 AM
Title: Re: Help Me Understand....
Content:
maybay said:
Having you tried learning Dzogchen from a book?

Malcolm wrote:
Head this one off at the pass — it just isn't possible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 11th, 2016 at 11:20 PM
Title: Re: english translation of yaksha...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The Tibetans translate yakṣa as gnod byin, "one who gives harm," in reference to the generally harmful nature of yakṣas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 11th, 2016 at 7:27 AM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:
Herbie said:
Actually there is no point  of view of mine. But if "is totally invalidated" shall mean "is not true" then yes, there is no truth findable in any linguistic expression.

Malcolm wrote:
I mean, you do nit understand the point of madhyamaka, whether Tsonkhapa's anyone else's.

Herbie said:
The point you understand is the one you are imputing. I am understanding Tsongkhapa's speech as presented by Jeffrey Hopkins in English. So actually I am understanding Jeffrey Hopkins. But whether Tsongkhapa or Jeffrey Hopkins does not matter. What matters is that I do understand. And there is no more for me to understand.

Malcolm wrote:
Glad you are satisfied. But I still think you have not an inkling of what Tsongkhapa actually means.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 11th, 2016 at 5:28 AM
Title: Re: Help Me Understand....
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You will find little support for Jax's views here. He does not seem to understand the difference between the basis and the path, nor that the basis refers to something that one has yet to realize.

manjusri said:
Can you elaborate a little on what you are referring to as the basis? Are you referring to one's Buddhanature?

Malcolm wrote:
In the most simple way of explaining it, yes. The teaching of Dzogchen concerns how to realize sugatagarbha, the clear and empty nature of the mind. But it is much more profound than other approaches one may find in sūtra and tantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 11th, 2016 at 3:53 AM
Title: Re: What exactly is Enlightenment?
Content:
Bristollad said:
Does the Buddha's reported use of Brahmanical language indicate approval and aggreement with Brahmins?  I don't think there is enough evidence to be able to say that.

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha understood and acquiesced to the social importance of the ritual role brahmins, as well as kṣatriyas had Indian society. How could he not?

When he was giving instructions to Ananda about his cremation and so on, he told Ananda that it was a job for the "faithful" brahmins, not bhikṣus.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 11th, 2016 at 2:15 AM
Title: Re: Help Me Understand....
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
We have to understand that there are many people these days who are deviant with respect to Dharma, but resemble Buddhists. The Self-Arisen Vidyā Tantra states:

The so-called “deviant tīrthikās who resemble Buddhists” deviate from being equivalent with insider Buddhists, and are only deviants because they are mistaken about Buddhist philosophy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 11th, 2016 at 2:00 AM
Title: Re: Help Me Understand....
Content:


BuddhaFollower said:
Padmasambhava and Vimalamitra never taught Dzogchen.

Their life stories are terma myth.


Malcolm wrote:
No, Padmasambhava clearly taught Dzogchen in the man ngag lta ba phreng ba. Vimalamitra definitely taught Dzogchen as well.

While there is no doubt their lives have been heavily mythologized, there is no reason to doubt the introduction of Dzogchen to Tibet by Padmasambhava, Vimalamitra and Vairocana. Shri Siṃha as a Indian teacher of Dzogchen (i.e., completion stage without the need for creation stage) is independently confirmed in the treatises of Mañjuśrīkirti. Shri Siṃha was the teacher of all three.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 11th, 2016 at 12:56 AM
Title: Re: Help Me Understand....
Content:
manjusri said:
If anyone here is capable, please help me put his views into context. I do not have enough of a background in Dzogchen to understand where he is coming from. Maybe there are others here who are familiar with Jackson and have a grasp on where he is coming from. I only wish to deepen my understanding.

Malcolm wrote:
You will find little support for Jax's views here. He does not seem to understand the difference between the basis and the path, nor that the basis refers to something that one has yet to realize.

As far as Vajrayāna goes, there was never a time that Dzogchen existed apart from the context of Vajrayāna. Thus his thesis that various teachers adulterated some imaginary "pure" Dzogchen with "lower" vehicles is a mistaken view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 10th, 2016 at 8:48 PM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:
conebeckham said:
As I believe the Buddha and his followers have said that the conceptual, rational mind cannot encompass the real, I maintain that there is no "ontology in general."

vinegar said:
No problem on accepting that conceptual cognition is necessarily mistaken.  But what about nonconceptual cognition, if there is no ontology in general then there is nothing for it to perceive.

Malcolm wrote:
A ontology is not required for nonconceptual cognitions. The question you are really asking is, if there are no external objects, how can there be direct perceptions (which are nonconceptual). All Buddhists systems, including Yogacara, accept external objects at the level of ordinary convention.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 10th, 2016 at 4:29 AM
Title: Re: Discarding Dharma Texts
Content:
Jeff H said:
I have a dilemma which concerns an unmentionable and controversial teacher. This is not a question about that group, but about my actions now, as an FPMT practitioner. The issue arose for me when I was listening to Alex Berzin’s lectures on Wheel of Sharp Weapons. At one point he mentions the questionable teacher by name and said, “I would not have one of his books in my house.” The reason, as I understand it, is a based on samaya toward HHDL and the idea that anything associated with that school has the potential to produce negative energy.

So here’s my dilemma. It was that school that introduced me to Tibetan Buddhism in 2007. I attended weekly sessions for two years, but more significantly, during that time I studied all his texts designated as the Foundational Programme on my own. My entire experience there was very positive. I was never taught about their protector and never encouraged to protest HHDL.

Most importantly, I believe that this teacher’s texts gave me a very solid grounding in Gelug teachings. When I left that school for Geshe Tashi Tsering’s formal, online course called Foundations of Buddhist Thought, I found it was essentially the same curriculum, and I believe that I was able to get more out of Geshe Tashi’s teachings thanks to the preliminary work I had done.

Therefore, although I accepted my first teacher wrongly, and subsequently came to believe I should respectfully disassociate myself from him, I retain a certain loyalty because, in fact, I believe he taught me well. More significantly, I still possess all the books I studied in those first two years, and I consider them to be legitimate Dharma teachings. So if I am to get rid of them, how should I do that?

Norwegian said:
Burn them.

Malcolm wrote:
Better to recycle it by tossing it in a recycle bin. Less carbon...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, July 10th, 2016 at 3:33 AM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:
conebeckham said:
But I am not asserting that "there is not one shred of anything out there" as that sounds like nihilism.

Lukeinaz said:
That want't very well worded.  Would you agree "there is not one shred of anything findable out there?  If not, I am curious to know what it is you  are finding.

Malcolm wrote:
There isn't anything findable at all. If there were, it would be ultimate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 9th, 2016 at 10:17 AM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:


Lukeinaz said:
Your language would be more comfortable as long as we agree that appearing in this sense means from a designating consciousness


Malcolm wrote:
No, appearances arise, then are labeled, not the other way around.

If you make it the other way around, you essentially reduce Madhyamaka to a form of idealism (cognitions are predicated in linguistic universals), rather than what it is, a kind of radical nominalism.

Lukeinaz said:
So if I have this right: appearances arise dependent on the mind, are labeled, and then appear back to that very mind as if from out there.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is simpler than that. Appearances arise in the mind, are labeled and stored as memories, which can then be recalled.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 9th, 2016 at 10:07 AM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
Nicholas,
We don't deny the evils of Communism, and we have just spent half a page lamenting the evils of Capitalism. What I objected to (in the post Malcolm quoted to re-start the thread) was only your one-sidedness. Communism was a reaction to - and a reflection of - Capitalism, and we need to transcend both of them if we are to address suffering.


Kim


conebeckham said:
I am in agreement.  Nicholas, your implicit, and somewhat explicit at times, Pro-Capitalism / Anti-Communism message serves to do what?

Do you think Capitalist economies are more "Buddhistic" in nature?

Nicholas Weeks said:
I am explicitly anti-totalitarian communism because I am pro-freedom of thought, speech & religion.  I am explicitly not pro any modern political setup.  It is just a simple fact that if one values these human freedoms, they are overwhelmingly found in non-communist, non-totalitarian, 'capitalistic' nations.

Malcolm wrote:
Well you see, right there is the difference between us. Whereas you are avowedly anti-totalitarian communism, I am simply an anti-totalitarian, antifascist, biocentric libertarian. As far as your judgement about extinct economies, the economy of Rome, for example, was founded on slave labor, as were a number of other classical economies. The caste system in India too was and is a system of entrenched class hierarchy, and ultimately, hereditary slavery.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 9th, 2016 at 8:30 AM
Title: Re: Mahanayan canon?
Content:
davidbrainerd said:
...Mahayana seems to just have a few one-off sutras that kind of float by themselves. Is this a misperception?

Malcolm wrote:
Most definitely.

The sūtra division of the Mahāyāna canon has several distinct divisions: Prajñāpāramita (which consists of many many volumes); the Avatamska Sūtra (in four volumes I think); the Ratnakuta collection (in several volumes with many scores of individual sūtras) and the general sūtra division which again is composed of many volumes. And this is just a rough overview of the Tibetan Mahāyāna canon. The Chinese Mahāyāna canon is just as vast. And we have not even gotten into commentaries, which dwarf the Pali commentarial tradition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 9th, 2016 at 3:24 AM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
I look forward to your review of a similar book about Capitalism.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, all of these atrocities were made possible only because of Industrial Capitalism and its efficiency in producing weapons of both mass and local destruction.

Nicholas Weeks said:
Sure, weapons do the killing automatically, no operators required. And how those evil capitalists built the Gulags and camps etc.

Malcolm wrote:
But indeed, nineteenth century and early twentieth century factories and mines were no better than gulags, with murderous guards, etc.

The workers movement in the 19th century was a reaction to the appalling conditions of living under Capitalism. Under European Capitalism, millions of native peoples were murdered, starved to death, pushed out of the way of white settlers, and so on. Millions more Africans were forced into slavery, sold, murdered, and bred like animals.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 9th, 2016 at 1:21 AM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:


Lukeinaz said:
Your language would be more comfortable as long as we agree that appearing in this sense means from a designating consciousness


Malcolm wrote:
No, appearances arise, then are labeled, not the other way around.

If you make it the other way around, you essentially reduce Madhyamaka to a form of idealism (cognitions are predicated in linguistic universals), rather than what it is, a kind of radical nominalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 9th, 2016 at 12:35 AM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
I look forward to your review of a similar book about Capitalism.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, all of these atrocities were made possible only because of Industrial Capitalism and its efficiency in producing weapons of both mass and local destruction.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 9th, 2016 at 12:06 AM
Title: Re: Is Cult like nature of Tibetan Buddhism acceptable?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
All schools have a "built-in" notion of their own superiority, Kagyu included.

Karinos said:
yes yes, Kagyu too. How about Sakyapas?
I don't know much about their views.

Malcolm wrote:
What is excluded from "all schools?"


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 11:43 PM
Title: Re: Is Cult like nature of Tibetan Buddhism acceptable?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Warning signal - if teacher or fellow practitioners are saying their Yana or Dharma is better, superior or higher than others - this is a warning of sectarian manipulation.
So Dzogchen tantras are sectarian manipulation?


Karinos said:
Can't tell you about Dzogchen tantras, but many HAY tantras say they are superior over any other Dharma. But of course there is a deeper meaning in it.

However when teacher or fellow practitioner says this without explaining deeper meaning I think that is sectarian manipulation. And there are as many of them in Nyigmapa, Kagyu or Gelugpa. Actually Nyingmapas often have superiority ego built in - very strong one, so do Gelugpas.

Malcolm wrote:
All schools have a "built-in" notion of their own superiority, Kagyu included.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: Is Cult like nature of Tibetan Buddhism acceptable?
Content:
Karinos said:
Tibetan Buddhism sectarianism - survival guide

https://www.facebook.com/notes/mahakala/tibetan-buddhism-sectarianism-survival-guide/1020654761318491
Hinayana as stand alone school does not exist anymore on the Earth.
Theravada tradition is much more than Hinayana and should not be identified as such.

Malcolm wrote:
Nonsense. The Theravāda school is precisely a Hinayāna school.

Karinos said:
Do you guys honestly think that senior monk of Theravada - who memorized whole Pali Canon of sutras and can give full explanation from his memory - has less capacity than Vajrayana practitioner who can barely chant one rosary of mantra daily?

Malcolm wrote:
This very much depends on what you mean by "capacity."

Karinos said:
Warning signal - if teacher or fellow practitioners are saying their Yana or Dharma is better, superior or higher than others - this is a warning of sectarian manipulation.

Malcolm wrote:
So Dzogchen tantras are sectarian manipulation?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: Is Cult like nature of Tibetan Buddhism acceptable?
Content:
smcj said:
An inauthentic lama could use Dharma ideas to create a cult. That is a danger.

Malcolm wrote:
All kinds of dangers in samsara. Of those, this is the least worrisome.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 9:14 PM
Title: Re: Is Cult like nature of Tibetan Buddhism acceptable?
Content:
Ayu said:
Cult-like nature is not acceptable and Tibetan Buddhism has no cult-like nature in general.

Malcolm wrote:
People who have problems with following a guru should not study Tibetan Buddhism, full stop. Actually, they are incapable of following Buddhadharma in general.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 9:11 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This just turns one's sense consciousnesses off. Tibetans for example understood that the brain governed sense consciousness well over a thousand years ago.

boda said:
Seriously? :

Malcolm wrote:
Seriously. Tibetan Medical discussions of brain injuries and injuries to nerves are instructive in how advanced their "scientific" knowledge was a millennium and more ago.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 8:39 PM
Title: Re: Is Cult like nature of Tibetan Buddhism acceptable?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Does Tibetan Buddhism have a cult-like nature?

Vajrasvapna said:
Is Cult like nature of Tibetan Buddhism acceptable? Could we have a less fanatic teacher disciple relation? Since what I'm seeing in Tibetans Buddhism groups is just too ugly and the guru thing is what people use to support that.

Some quotes about that:

"In Europe and America, Tibetan teachers emphasized that to follow Guru is very important ... like that. Yes, in the essence of Tantra, Guru is important. But in this case, you need certain quality of Guru, and certain quality of disciples ... with comparison to Milarepa and Marpa. And then subject Tantra, the nature of the Tantra, the nature of the Guru, and the nature of the disciple, must be in a very proper structure. But Tantra is a very eccentric practice. It was a very eccentric practice as in the examples of Tilopa/Naropa and Marpa/Milarepa. Of course, Tantric methods is very powerful but this is not suitable for big society. A teacher like Marpa and Tilopa is not available everywhere. If you act like Tilpoa, can you take the risk? You cannot give hardship to disciples as Tilopa did. If you are 100% sure that you can liberate your disciple, otherwise you are then entirely a cult. So guru promotion is not proper everywhere. I don't mean disciples should not have respect to teacher. Of course one should respect the teacher but not in a fanatical way. There is no need and followers should not follow in that (fanatical) way." The later Sharmapa

"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it.
They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock [that sits in a river but is never soaked through], not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this [false] dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 10:39 AM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:
Herbie said:
I cannot comment because I am not involved in a "Buddha Dharma".

Malcolm wrote:
Which is why your entire point of view is totally invalidated.

Herbie said:
Actually there is no point  of view of mine. But if "is totally invalidated" shall mean "is not true" then yes, there is no truth findable in any linguistic expression.

Malcolm wrote:
I mean, you do nit understand the point of madhyamaka, whether Tsonkhapa's anyone else's.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 7:38 AM
Title: Re: reality is a vajra
Content:
conebeckham said:
I thought it was Barbells, myself.

Malcolm wrote:
hoverboard...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 7:38 AM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:
Herbie said:
I cannot comment because I am not involved in a "Buddha Dharma".

Malcolm wrote:
Which is why your entire point of view is totally invalidated.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 7:36 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
boda said:
New discoveries apparently support Dennett's explication, such as the so called consciousness on-off switch.



See: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329762-700-consciousness-on-off-switch-discovered-deep-in-brain/

Malcolm wrote:
This just turns one's sense consciousnesses off. Tibetans for example understood that the brain governed sense consciousness well over a thousand years ago.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 4:48 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


boda said:
How do you know it's wrong?

Malcolm wrote:
Because I know. That knowing itself refutes the premise Dennet holds.

boda said:
From what I understand, Dennett claims that subjective consciousness is illusory. From what I understand, you would also claim that subjective consciousness is illusory (empty). What am I missing?

Malcolm wrote:
The difference is self-awareness, as stated above. The self-awareness of consciousness is an irreducible fact that cannot be explained by materialism, not thus far.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 4:24 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


boda said:
How do you know it's wrong?

Malcolm wrote:
Because I know. That knowing itself refutes the premise Dennet holds.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 4:02 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


boda said:
What difference does it make?

Dennett has subjective experiences. What difference does it matter if he describes them as real or illusion? Indeed it would seem more Buddhist if he described them as illusion, which he apparently does.

Malcolm wrote:
He accounts for them by recourse to a purely mechanical model of physical events, which are not themselves illusory, but are physical and irreducible facts.

boda said:
So what's wrong with that?

Malcolm wrote:
There is nothing "wrong" with it, apart from that fact that is a wrong view (mithya-dṛṣṭiḥ).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 3:25 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


boda said:
Am I real or an illusion?

Malcolm wrote:
Only you can answer that question for yourself.

boda said:
What difference does it make?

Dennett has subjective experiences. What difference does it matter if he describes them as real or illusion? Indeed it would seem more Buddhist if he described them as illusion, which he apparently does.

Malcolm wrote:
He accounts for them by recourse to a purely mechanical model of physical events, which are not themselves illusory, but are physical and irreducible facts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 3:12 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
He [Dennett] absolutely denies there is subjective experience.

boda said:
Am I real or an illusion?

Malcolm wrote:
Only you can answer that question for yourself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 3:07 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


boda said:
From a very brief google search just now that appears to be a false claim, that Dennett denies the phenomenon of conscious experience. Perhaps you could substantiate that claim.
`We're all zombies. Nobody is conscious' (Dennett 1991, p. 406)

Malcolm wrote:
Dawkins, Dennet, et all, believe that the universe and everything in its functionally inert and nonsentient.

boda said:
In a footnote Dennett states: "It would be an act of desperate intellectual dishonesty to quote this assertion out of context!"

Malcolm wrote:
He absolutely denies there is subjective experience.

boda said:
"To put it as clearly as I can: in his book, Consciousness Explained, Dennett denies the existence of consciousness. He continues to use the word, but he means something different by it. For him, it refers only to third-person phenomena, not to the first-person conscious feelings and experiences we all have.

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/12/21/the-mystery-of-consciousness-an-exchange/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 2:33 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


boda said:
From a very brief google search just now that appears to be a false claim, that Dennett denies the phenomenon of conscious experience. Perhaps you could substantiate that claim.
`We're all zombies. Nobody is conscious' (Dennett 1991, p. 406)

Malcolm wrote:
Dawkins, Dennet, et all, believe that the universe and everything in its functionally inert and nonsentient.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 8th, 2016 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:




Lukeinaz said:
This appears to be the keystone of Tsongkhapa's system.

Malcolm wrote:
...in terms of sutra. And how many eons are required just to realize the first bhumi?

conebeckham said:
Well, what's interesting about the Gelug texts I've read, and very limited teachings I've had, is that even in tantric practice, Gelug practitioners are advised to bring their "View" based on this understanding/experience of emptiness to their deity yoga, and their completion stage practices.  I've seen texts that specifically recommend analytic Madhyamaka analysis in the context of KyeRim and DzogRim.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, nevertheless, they maintain that without accessing the subtle mind through the two stages, it is extremely difficult to realize the emptiness ascertained in analysis because ordinary analytical consciousness is too coarse to realize subtle emptiness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 7th, 2016 at 9:36 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Harimoo said:
Is there any difference between pre-order on Wisdom Publications and pre-order on Amazon ? (shipments to Europe with Wisdom Pub are huge)

Malcolm wrote:
It is going to be internationally distributed by Simon and Schuster, so you should also be able to get it from Wisdom Books in England.

udawa said:
Alas, Wisdom Books (the UK book distributor, not Wisdom Publications) appear to have ceased trading.

Hopefully an alternative to Amazon will emerge to take its place.

Sign of the times I suppose.

Malcolm wrote:
You should be able to order the books directly from Wisdom pubs, and it will be published as an e-book.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 7th, 2016 at 9:34 PM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:
King of Concentrations Sutra said:
If you analytically discriminate the lack of self in phenomena
And if you cultivate that precise analysis in mediation,
This will cause you to reach the goal, the attainment of nirvana.
There is no peace through any other cause.

Lukeinaz said:
This appears to be the keystone of Tsongkhapa's system.

Malcolm wrote:
...in terms of sutra. And how many eons are required just to realize the first bhumi?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 7th, 2016 at 8:17 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Boomerang said:
Is the book safe for members of the Dzogchen Community who have not received thogal instructions?

Malcolm wrote:
The book, as stated in my intro, is intended for those who have received Dzogchen empowerment and instructions. There are no explicit instructions in the book on how to practice thögal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 7th, 2016 at 5:26 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Wayfarer said:
... the point about the modern scientific materialism of the sort preached by Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss and Stephen Hawkings, is that they want to put science in the place of religion.  It has been described as the 'religion of scientism'.

boda said:
Anything that offers purpose and meaning can take the place of religion, so yes of course science could adequately fill that role. What you don't seem to appreciate is that atheists such as Dawkins are essentially opposed to the irrationality that can result from the inability to separate "hard facts," as Bikkhu Bodhi puts it, from other spheres of value. They are opposed to 'drinking the Kool-Aid', to put it more colloquially, and yet your point seems to suggest that they are merely drinking a different brand of sugar water. If that is your point point then you are fundementally mistaken.

Malcolm wrote:
They are most definitely drinking a brand of sugar water.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 7th, 2016 at 3:38 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Advance review:
The text translated in this volume is an inspired translation of one of the classics of the Great Perfection, unveiling the extraordinary tradition of the 8th century pandit Vimalamitra. It introduces the reader to the secret visionary instructions of Thögal practice, the core of Dzogchen itself. Extensively based on the corpus of the Seventeen Tantras, the text reveals the entire Path of the Great Perfection in a fluid and inspiring style which carefully follows the original.
-- Jean Luc Achard


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, July 7th, 2016 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:


Lukeinaz said:
How are we to make sense of this without an implying a qualifier?

The particle is not a particle therefore it is a particle.

Malcolm wrote:
By realizing what it means.

Lukeinaz said:
How would you recommend one go about realizing what this means without analysis?  What does it mean to you?

Malcolm wrote:
It can't be realized via analysis. This kind of emptiness is inert. This is why even Tsongkhapa maintains that one must enter the path of secret mantra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 6th, 2016 at 11:49 PM
Title: Re: Inherency and the Object of Negation
Content:


Lukeinaz said:
How are we to make sense of this without an implying a qualifier?

The particle is not a particle therefore it is a particle.

Malcolm wrote:
By realizing what it means.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 6th, 2016 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
So dakini letters come out in ones native language. Still, GP put it down in dakini.

Malcolm wrote:
Not exactly. Guru Rinpoche taught the teachings in full, in Tibetan. The Dakinī scripts are are keys used to unlock the memory of terton, who then writes down what he recalls of the teachings.

Crazywisdom said:
Dakinis can hash that much content with a few letters? That's super sci-fi. I hope the NSA doesn't get a hold of that tech.

Malcolm wrote:
Much better compression than Pied Piper.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, July 6th, 2016 at 7:20 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Wayfarer said:
Well, I agree with Bikkhu Bodhi, and have read many arguments in support of that idea, but as you have formed the opposite view, let's not keep arguing the case. It is tangential to Buddhism anyway.

Malcolm wrote:
One of the crucial influences on the Enlightenment was the spread of Epicurean materialism through the works of the Lucretius. Indeed, the term "Nature's God" comes from this trend. Quite a number of leading Enlightenment intellectuals, for example, David Hume, were atheists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 5th, 2016 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
undefineable said:
The difficulty of course is how the word of choice, 'entity' in this case', is defined - in a narrow sense or in the broadest possible. Less unpromisingly perhaps, the excerpt directly raises the question of how consciousness succeeds contact and sensation rather than preceding them - dependant on the definition of 'consciousness' being used. It seems understandable for some of those drawn to the mahayana to 'skip over' these difficult but (presumably) basic teachings; maybe a minimal experience of meditation hints that they only make full sense with further such experience _

Malcolm wrote:
A mind is an entity. No entity of mind of passes from this life to the next, yet the mindstream courses from this world to the next. It is not really that hard a concept to grok if one has internalized the principles of dependent origination and essencelessness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, July 5th, 2016 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
undefineable said:
Having read the link in full, the question becomes: 'In what way to believe in rebirth?'

Malcolm wrote:
Quite simply, nothing substantial, no entity of any sort, will pass from this world to the next; and nevertheless, there is a connection between this world and the next, like the impression of a seal in clay, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 4th, 2016 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen
Content:
Kilaya. said:
Does the concept of "crazy wisdom" (yeshe chölwa) - which is often associated with Drollo - exist in any tradition or text apart from Trungpa's books?

Malcolm wrote:
Textually, speaking, I could only find one instance of the term 'chol ba'i ye shes being used, in connection with Mañjuvajra sadhana in the Tengyur, at TBRC. And they have many Drollo and other texts that are text searchable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 4th, 2016 at 9:38 PM
Title: Re: To Free Trade or Not to Free Trade
Content:
Myoho-Nameless said:
The amount of influence and control "corporations" have over the economy is pretty anti free trade. Being in favor of free trade is being against that "corporatism" we all don't like.

I am attracted to mutualism as it combines socialism with free markets.

My thoughts on nationalism at present are convoluted at best. But I think "countries" are now or soon to be an archaic concept and people should identify primarily at a municipal level. Its been said that NYC could produce 85% of it's own food using the right technology. I'm interning at a local organic..."farm" for lack of a better word and god damn, regulations are a real barrier to hatching this new paradigm.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, because agricultural regulations are written in order to squash competition from small producers. The book, Everything I want to do is Illegal by Joel Salatan is an excellent read on this subject. Another is Small is Beautiful by Schumacher.

Also, the principle of organizing society at the municipal level is the bedrock of Bookchin's Libertarian Municipalism, which is based on the popular anarchist notion of decentralization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, July 4th, 2016 at 8:49 PM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
davidbrainerd said:
the immaterial mind (which you could just as well call 'soul') is the self.

Malcolm wrote:
The mind is one of the aggregates. So when you say "the aggregates are not the self," you are directly contradicting yourself.


davidbrainerd said:
Its not as simple as that. There are clearly two minds. In Pali you have nama and citta

Malcolm wrote:
Nama, citta, vijñāna and manas are all synonyms for the same thing, one's mind.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 2nd, 2016 at 9:24 PM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
smcj said:
Hey, this is Mahayanaland. We can say the 8th consciousness goes from lifetime to lifetime. It's not a "self" because it is infinitely mutable.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a self because it is just a name for the aggregate of consciousness and because it is momentary.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 2nd, 2016 at 9:23 PM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
davidbrainerd said:
the immaterial mind (which you could just as well call 'soul') is the self.

Malcolm wrote:
The mind is one of the aggregates. So when you say "the aggregates are not the self," you are directly contradicting yourself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 2nd, 2016 at 5:44 AM
Title: Re: To Free Trade or Not to Free Trade
Content:
Queequeg said:
The issue of free trade is becoming a major issue in the US presidential election.

Malcolm wrote:
Free for whom?

Queequeg said:
and even Hilary has been pushed to oppose the Trans Pacific Partnership pact in her primary race with Bernie.

Malcolm wrote:
The DNC rejected all of Sander's platform suggestions. The DNC and the Dems can go screw themselves (actually they are, and screwing the planet and all living creatures in the bargain).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 2nd, 2016 at 4:15 AM
Title: Re: Padmasambhava in Translation
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is nothing wrong in principle with the 84000 project.

dzogchungpa said:
I'm sure DJKR will be very relieved to hear this.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, I have understood for some time that his every move really does hang on my opinion of it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 2nd, 2016 at 1:40 AM
Title: Re: Padmasambhava in Translation
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Who cares what other people think?

MalaBeads said:
DJKR cares what other people think.

Or at least he used to.

Malcolm wrote:
There is nothing wrong in principle with the 84000 project. What I object to is the idea that the literary products of Tibetan buddhas is inferior in quality and kind to that of Indian buddhas. It is similar to the tale of Padampa Sangye and Milarepa's meeting. While equal in realization, Mila's blade of grass bent a little lower than Padampa's, ostensible due to Mila's inferior birth as a Tibetan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 2nd, 2016 at 1:38 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
"Political campaigns are not social movements. Even great campaigns like those of Jackson in the 80s, Obama in the recent past or Sanders today are not social movements. We must distinguish between social momentums, social rebellions and social movements. Given the massive national security state and the pervasive carceral state, social movements are rare – past, present and future. The American Empire is more ripe for a counter-revolution than revolution, for right-wing movements than left-wing ones. This is so primarily because of the deep xenophobic roots in the country and profound militaristic sentiments in the culture. Hence, progressive social momentums and chaotic social rebellions are more likely to reshape our priorities and gain some concessions from greedy elites and callous citizens. This is why moral and spiritual dimensions of social activism are crucial – to sustain our will to fight inside and outside the system with little chance of immediate victory!"

http://www.blackagendareport.com/cornel_west_on_rightwing_danger


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 2nd, 2016 at 1:11 AM
Title: Re: First Do No Harm
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
All Western doctors, Buddhist or not, take this oath of harmlessness as their priority in treating patients.  I wonder how they handle gender dysphoria in chlldren?

Here is one doctor's view:

http://www.jpands.org/vol21no2/cretella.pdf

Her conclusion:
Gender dysphoria (GD) in children is a term used to describe a psychological condition in which a child experiences marked incongruence between his experienced gender and the gender associated with his biological sex. There is no rigorous scientific evidence that GD is an innate trait. Moreover, 80 percent to 95 percent of children with GD accept the reality of their biological sex and achieve emotional health by late adolescence.
The treatment of GD in childhood with hormones effectively amounts to mass experimentation on, and sterilization of, youth who are cognitively incapable of providing informed consent. There is a serious ethical problem with allowing irreversible, life-changing procedures to be performed on minors who are too young to give valid consent themselves.

Malcolm wrote:
Agreed. Minors should not be allowed to embark on hormones therapy to emulate their preferred (for the time being) gender identity. Physically altering one's body is a decision that should be left to adults.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 2nd, 2016 at 1:05 AM
Title: Re: Padmasambhava in Translation
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
from this perspective, he is saying his teachings are superior to translations.

Astus said:
But I assume hardly anyone today would think that a Westerner's similar statement would amount to anything serious. And if there were a group of students who followed such a living buddha, they'd be considered unorthodox and cult-like.

Malcolm wrote:
Who cares what other people think?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, July 2nd, 2016 at 12:45 AM
Title: Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
So then Tertons are really speaking with GP's voice? Aren't terma written in dakini script and translated by the Tertons into Tibetan? I've always assumed there was some interpretive translating, because let's be honest, dakini can't be that close to Tibetan. And I always thought it was weird that dakini so would quote such large portions of texts. I guess dakinis read a lot.

heart said:
They are not translating, the text comes out in Tibetan from the the dakini letters (that often just are a few syllables) . You can read about it in Dilgo Khyentses biography and ChNNR's "The crystal and the way of the light".

/magnus

Crazywisdom said:
So dakini letters come out in ones native language. Still, GP put it down in dakini.

Malcolm wrote:
Not exactly. Guru Rinpoche taught the teachings in full, in Tibetan. The Dakinī scripts are are keys used to unlock the memory of terton, who then writes down what he recalls of the teachings.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 1st, 2016 at 8:22 PM
Title: Re: Padmasambhava in Translation
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
This is actually an interesting point. Strictly from a historical POV or whatever, is it clear that Padmasambhava knew Tibetan well? Apparently some say he only spent about 6 months in Tibet.


Malcolm wrote:
Was Padmasambhava a nirmanakāya? If so, do you think he need to take a TSL class?

tomamundsen said:
My own teacher doesn't teach this way, but in the book Essence of Buddhism, Traleg Kyabgon Rinpoche said that the Buddha's omniscience does not mean he literally knows everything and that he'd have to learn French, for example. I don't have the actual citation on hand, unfortunately. I guess there's different opinions on the matter?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 1st, 2016 at 5:21 AM
Title: Re: Padmasambhava in Translation
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Since Padmasambhava taught in Tibetan ...

dzogchungpa said:
This is actually an interesting point. Strictly from a historical POV or whatever, is it clear that Padmasambhava knew Tibetan well? Apparently some say he only spent about 6 months in Tibet.


Malcolm wrote:
Was Padmasambhava a nirmanakāya? If so, do you think he need to take a TSL class?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 1st, 2016 at 3:47 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Astus said:
"By the same token, it seems unlikely that those in these regions (or Cornwall or other economically peripheral spaces) would feel ‘grateful’ to the EU for subsidies. Knowing that your business, farm, family or region is dependent on the beneficence of wealthy liberals is unlikely to be a recipe for satisfaction (see James Meek’s recent essay in the London Review of Books on Europhobic farmers who receive vast subsidies from the EU). More bizarrely, it has since emerged that regions with the closest economic ties to the EU in general (and not just of the subsidised variety) were most likely to vote Leave.
While it may be one thing for an investment banker to understand that they ‘benefit from the EU’ in regulatory terms, it is quite another to encourage poor and culturally marginalised people to feel grateful towards the elites that sustain them through handouts, month by month. Resentment develops not in spite of this generosity, but arguably because of it. This isn’t to discredit what the EU does in terms of redistribution, but pointing to handouts is a psychologically and politically naïve basis on which to justify remaining in the EU."
( http://www.perc.org.uk/project_posts/thoughts-on-the-sociology-of-brexit/ )

treehuggingoctopus said:
Ah, you beat me to it, Astus. A cracking piece.

Johnny Dangerous said:
This kind of attitude exists among liberals in the US too. So many times you will hear people saying that they just can't understand why Tea Partiers, poor whites on welfare etc. who might receive Social Security or other benefits "vote against their own interests", in both cases it assumes that simply receiving subsidies would somehow ingratiate a group towards a certain side..but it rarely works like that. If it did, corporations would be ingratiated to taxpayers.
During a 9-hour meeting in St. Louis, Missouri on Friday, members of the DNC's platform drafting committee voted down a number of measures proposed by Bernie Sanders surrogates that would have come out against the contentious Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), fracking, and the Israeli occupation of Palestine. At the same time, proposals to support a carbon tax, Single Payer healthcare, and a $15 minimum wage tied to inflation were also disregarded.

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/06/25/betraying-progressives-dnc-platform-backs-fracking-tpp-and-israel-occupation

Why would I ever vote for the Democratic Party? Screw the DNC. Guess I will be voting Green again.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 1st, 2016 at 12:31 AM
Title: Re: Padmasambhava in Translation
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
DJKR on "Lamaism": The Tibetans have developed the habit of preserving and propagating the work of Tibetan lamas, and seem to have forgotten about the Sutras and Shastras. Painful as it is for me to admit, Tibetans often promote the teachings of their own teachers far more than those of the Buddha—and I have no trouble understanding why Tibetan Buddhism is sometimes described as “Lamaism”. Today, as a result, our vision is quite narrow, and instead of dedicating our limited resources to translating the Words of the Buddha, we pour it into translating the teachings of individual lineage gurus, biographies, their long-life prayers, and prayers for the propagation of the teachings of individual schools.
from http://84000.co/translating-the-words-of-the-buddhadharma-for-hearing-contemplation-and-meditation/.

Malcolm wrote:
Padmasambhava on translations:
Since this [dkon mchog spyi 'dus] is a teaching by the voice of the dharmakāya or the sambhogakāya, it is superior to the [the teachings] in the languages of India.
The real point is that the voice of a nirmanakāya is the voice of the dharmakāya or the sambhogakāya. Since Padmasambhava taught in Tibetan, from this perspective, he is saying his teachings are superior to translations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, July 1st, 2016 at 12:04 AM
Title: Re: Adi-Buddha on Wikipedia
Content:
BuddhaFollower said:
Princeton Dictionary of Buddhism says:

"The term seems to appear for the first time in the MAHĀYĀNASŪTRĀLAṂKĀRA, where the existence of such a primordial buddha is refuted on the grounds that the achievement of buddhahood is impossible without the accumulation of merit (PUṆYA) and wisdom (JÑĀNA)"

So it appears in sutra, albeit in a negative connotation.


Malcolm wrote:
The term actually is not in this text. What is refuted here, in chapter nine, verse 77, is the primordiality of buddhahood, but the term adibuddha is not used here at all.

dzogchungpa said:
I believe it is in the bhashya:
https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index.php?page=record&view=record&vid=85&mid=284072

Malcolm wrote:
Even so, Vasubandhu is not referring the same concept found in Vajrayāna. And in fact location cited, it is not used, despite Vasubandhu's use of the term.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 30th, 2016 at 5:01 AM
Title: Re: Adi-Buddha on Wikipedia
Content:
BuddhaFollower said:
Princeton Dictionary of Buddhism says:

"The term seems to appear for the first time in the MAHĀYĀNASŪTRĀLAṂKĀRA, where the existence of such a primordial buddha is refuted on the grounds that the achievement of buddhahood is impossible without the accumulation of merit (PUṆYA) and wisdom (JÑĀNA)"

So it appears in sutra, albeit in a negative connotation.


Malcolm wrote:
The term actually is not in this text. What is refuted here, in chapter nine, verse 77, is the primordiality of buddhahood, but the term adibuddha is not used here at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 30th, 2016 at 3:55 AM
Title: Re: Adi-Buddha on Wikipedia
Content:
Boomerang said:
Thank you, Victoria. Is it correct now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi-Buddha


Malcolm wrote:
The term adibuddha does not exist in sutra.

yan kong said:
But in East Asia they do refer to Vairocana as the Primordial Buddha or at least "Universal".

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. but this still is not sūtra. This comes from Mantrayāna. It is a name for the nature of reality, the buddhahood of the basis, i.e., the reality that all buddhas realize.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 29th, 2016 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
DJKR on "Lamaism": The Tibetans have developed the habit of preserving and propagating the work of Tibetan lamas, and seem to have forgotten about the Sutras and Shastras. Painful as it is for me to admit, Tibetans often promote the teachings of their own teachers far more than those of the Buddha—and I have no trouble understanding why Tibetan Buddhism is sometimes described as “Lamaism”. Today, as a result, our vision is quite narrow, and instead of dedicating our limited resources to translating the Words of the Buddha, we pour it into translating the teachings of individual lineage gurus, biographies, their long-life prayers, and prayers for the propagation of the teachings of individual schools.
from http://84000.co/translating-the-words-of-the-buddhadharma-for-hearing-contemplation-and-meditation/.

Malcolm wrote:
Padmasambhava on translations:
Since this [dkon mchog spyi 'dus] is a teaching by the voice of the dharmakāya or the sambhogakāya, it is superior to the [the teachings] in the languages of India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 9:51 PM
Title: Re: Guru Yoga & Lamanism: Speculations on Shingon and Nichiren Schools
Content:
Fortyeightvows said:
I'm thinking that the author of the article is a member of this forum...

And personally I'm fond of the term lamaism A lot of great English books use the term: Kenneth Che'en,Laurence Waddell, Walter Eugene Clark, Evan Wentz I guess peculiar reference library may be right...

Malcolm wrote:
Waddell's book is an example of the worst sort of 19th century bigotry and racism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 8:44 PM
Title: Re: Unusual form of Phurba
Content:
dzoki said:
The deity in the picture looks like a retinue deity to me, not the main deity,

Malcolm wrote:
I agree, it is clearly from the bottom of a thankga.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 8:38 PM
Title: Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen
Content:


Kilaya. said:
I've seen this translation myself in a book written by Lama Ole Nydahl. I wonder what the literal translation of "drollö" is?

Malcolm wrote:
It comes from a joke made by Trungpa. Gro bo lod is a corruption ot the term krodhalokotarra.

Kilaya. said:
Krodhalokottara means something like "angry lord of the world", right?

Malcolm wrote:
It means "transcendent (beyond the world) wrath."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 7:46 PM
Title: Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Drollo is means total integration. When you are totally integrated, everything becomes your servant.

Fa Dao said:
I saw another translation I thought was odd "Vajra Sagging Belly"...thoughts?

Kilaya. said:
I've seen this translation myself in a book written by Lama Ole Nydahl. I wonder what the literal translation of "drollö" is?

Malcolm wrote:
It comes from a joke made by Trungpa. Gro bo lod is a corruption ot the term krodhalokottara.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 10:32 AM
Title: Re: Dorje Drolo and Dzogchen
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Drollo is means total integration. When you are totally integrated, everything becomes your servant.

Fa Dao said:
I saw another translation I thought was odd "Vajra Sagging Belly"...thoughts?

Malcolm wrote:
Completely wrong.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Well, that would be a fair comparison is the leave vote was a clear mandate, but it wasn't. And, it is not a binding vote (which every one seems to forget).  As long as the UK does not trigger article 50, they are in the EU still.

Astus said:
And how do you imagine they could disregard the referendum in the parliament? It might have worse consequences then leaving.

Malcolm wrote:
Ah, because it is parliament, and because it is pretty clear that no one actually has the stomach to leave the EU. Recall that there were 3 million+ signatures within 48 hours demanding a second referendum. If young people had turned out in higher numbers, the remain party would have won.

Basically, Cameron played this one badly.
Astus said:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

Malcolm wrote:
http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-really-really-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ?utm_source=indy&utm_medium=top5&utm_campaign=i100


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 1:14 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I was referring to the all the sturm and drung leading up to the vote.

But also from the second article you posted:
But politicians are talking tough. Concessions, they say, might encourage other member states to leave. For this reason one senior MP told me: "There must be consequences for Britain".

Astus said:
Well, it seems Merkel couldn't hold out against everyone else: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/article-50-brexit-eu-referendum-result-german-eu-latest-news-leave-european-union-a7105946.html

BTW, it's like when someone says that he wants a divorce but then procrastinates in leaving the house and doing the official paperwork.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, that would be a fair comparison is the leave vote was a clear mandate, but it wasn't. And, it is not a binding vote (which every one seems to forget).  As long as the UK does not trigger article 50, they are in the EU still.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Unknown said:
But we can be sure of one thing: All negative economic trends will now be blamed on Brexit and the populist “mob” who brought it on, rather than on the establishment’s neoliberal policies which are actually responsible.

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/27/brexit-establishment-freak-out/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 1:03 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:



DGA said:
For anti-austerity, anti-capitalist voters: When you have the likes of LePen cheering you on and gloating over your success, and when the UKIP is your ally, you have to ask yourself if what you are doing is working the way you want.

Malcolm wrote:
POI:
#Lexit: The Left Leave Campaign

On June 23, Britain will vote in a referendum on EU membership. Voters deserve better than an ugly choice between David Cameron’s pro-EU campaign (or the pipe-dream of a “Social Europe”) on the one hand, and the reactionary anti-EU campaigning of UKIP and the Tory right on the other.

That is why we have come together to launch #Lexit: The Left Leave Campaign. We aim to build a principled, anti-racist and internationalist campaign, committed to democracy, social justice and environmental sustainability.
Why you should vote to leave on 23 June:

(1) A big business agenda
The EU is in secret negotiations with the US to launch the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP). This will promote privatisation and reduce corporate standards to the lowest level either side of the Atlantic. War on Want estimates the deal could cost 600,000 jobs.
Membership of the EU hampers any attempt to nationalise the railways or to rescue industries such as steel where jobs are threatened.
Countries such as Greece, Cyprus, Ireland and Portugal have suffered brutal EU austerity programmes. In Greece, health spending fell by a quarter, education by a third.

(2) Unreformable and undemocratic
Decision-making in the EU is dominated by unelected bodies such as the European Commission and European Central Bank. Those running them are contemptuous of democracy. Confronted with discontent over TTIP, Cecilia Malmström, European trade commissioner, replied: “I do not take my mandate from the European people.”
Rewriting or scrapping the basic EU treaties would need unanimous agreement between all 28 governments.

(3) Rights and justice
It is a myth that the EU defends workers. Equal pay legislation came out of the struggle of the women sewing machinists at Ford Dagenham in 1968, not from the EU. Most health and safety legislation originates in the 1970s, a time of union strength. The national minimum wage was won by the labour movement—not given to us by the EU. The EU has not defended workers against any of the 12 Tory anti-union laws since 1980.
The left defends the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) adopted by the Council of Europe, a completely separate body from the EU that Britain would remain a member of whatever the referendum result.

(4) Fortress Europe
The so-called freedom of movement of labour does not apply to non-EU citizens. For those from within the EU, four European Court of Justice rulings have outlawed trade union and government action to enforce equal rights for imported (“posted”) workers.
Now the EU is engaged in the mass deportation of refugees from Greece. Amnesty International says of the deportation programme, “The very principle of international protection for those fleeing war and persecution is at stake.” We defend the rights of refugees.
“Fortress Europe” is also developing a military dimension, which EU treaties openly link to Nato.

(5) Heading right?
If Britain votes to leave, it won’t automatically mean a move to the right. The Tories are being torn apart by debate over the EU. If Cameron loses, he will almost certainly go. If a Conservative government survives, it will be hopelessly fragile.
Not only will the government be weakened. The rich and powerful overwhelmingly support British membership. The City, the Confederation of British Industry and the Institute of Directors all support the status quo. So do at least two-thirds of large British firms surveyed by the Financial Times last year. A crisis for our rulers can open up a greater space for the left.
http://www.leftleave.org/about-2/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 12:54 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
DGA said:
For anti-austerity, anti-capitalist voters: When you have the likes of LePen cheering you on and gloating over your success, and when the UKIP is your ally, you have to ask yourself if what you are doing is working the way you want.



Johnny Dangerous said:
Wall Street was vehemently against Leave, does that mean by extension that all people who supported Remain or "an ally of Wall Street"?

Malcolm wrote:
Financial markets don't like uncertainty.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen & Vipashyana on thoughts
Content:
Vasana said:
Florin - if you say the Dharmakaya is conditioned, you are saying it is composite.

florin said:
Dharmakaya teachers are our dzogchen teachers.

Malcolm wrote:
Really? Who says?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 12:49 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:


Myoho-Nameless said:
We Americans are a bipolar and emotional people...

Malcolm wrote:
Speak for yourself, I am neither bipolar nor emotive. I am a Yankee.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 28th, 2016 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The EU's approach has not been, "UK we'll miss you," but rather, "You fools, you will regret this." Not a very appealing message.

Astus said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-germany-rethink-idUSKCN0ZC0IB

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36630326

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I was referring to the all the sturm and drung leading up to the vote.

But also from the second article you posted:
But politicians are talking tough. Concessions, they say, might encourage other member states to leave. For this reason one senior MP told me: "There must be consequences for Britain".


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 27th, 2016 at 9:49 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:


DGA said:
For anti-austerity, anti-capitalist voters: When you have the likes of LePen cheering you on and gloating over your success, and when the UKIP is your ally, you have to ask yourself if what you are doing is working the way you want.

Malcolm wrote:
Similar conditions existed in the twenties and thirties, when fascists and socialists often voiced similar positions but for vastly different reasons. The difference of course is that as soon as the fascists took power in Italy, etc., all pretenses about opposing capitalism faded swiftly as capitalism used fascist parties's nationalism.

In any event, people who are freaked out by Brexit in the UK have themselves to blame. This whole thing was staged by Cameron and it blew up in his face. He tried to use the Brexit vote very much the same way he manipulated the Scottish Independence referendum.

I imagine though, that there is serious backpedaling going on, but all this shows is just how tenuous the EU's hold is. The EU's approach has not been, "UK we'll miss you," but rather, "You fools, you will regret this." Not a very appealing message.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 27th, 2016 at 8:16 PM
Title: Re: where in america are nyingma retreat centers?
Content:
jay88 said:
Im looking to buy some land back home in the States to build a home and practice . I would like to buy land near a Nyingma retreat center or temple preferably but the main thing ish to be able to stay in close contact with a Sangha and teachers. I want my family to be able to practice and be raised in an area influenced by the Dharma.  So if any one can recommend a few temples or retreat centers or communities in the states it would help me out a lot. Anywhere in the states is fine . Thank you all

Malcolm wrote:
Colorado, California, Oregon, Upstate New York., these are the main places where you find such temples and centers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 27th, 2016 at 9:42 AM
Title: Re: Adi-Buddha on Wikipedia
Content:
Boomerang said:
Thank you, Victoria. Is it correct now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi-Buddha
In Vajrayana Buddhism, the ādibuddha (Tibetan: dang-po'i sangs-rgyas), is the "First Buddha." The term reemerges in tantric literature, most prominently in the Kalachakra.[1] According to the first interpretation, ādi means “first” such that the ādibuddha was the first to attain Buddhahood.[2] According to the second interpretation, ādi means “primordial,” not referring to a person but to an innate wisdom that is present in all sentient beings.[3] In Tibetan Buddhism, the term ādibuddha is often used to describe Samantabhadra or Vajradhara.[4] In East Asia, the ādibuddha is typically considered to be Vairocana.[5]


Malcolm wrote:
The term adibuddha does not exist in sutra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 27th, 2016 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Astus said:
It seems so strange to me that those who would support Bernie in the US can at the same time rejoice over and approve Brexit. Is it not apparent enough that with Brexit the right wing, especially far-right politics won?

Malcolm wrote:
The American Left in general supported Brexit, because it represents the failure of neoliberalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 26th, 2016 at 11:54 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Bristollad said:
The EU was seriously flawed and undemocratic...

Malcolm wrote:
Democracy and the uncertainty that comes along with it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 26th, 2016 at 11:06 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2016, part 2
Content:
Fa Dao said:
is hillary really the lesser of two evils??? I simply cannot bring myself to vote for her..period.


Malcolm wrote:
Still Sanders.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 26th, 2016 at 9:35 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Wayfarer said:
There are also big areas of disadvantage in the USA, with the middle-class incomes stagnating and the drying up of opportunities.

But the question is, will leaving the European Union actually make any difference to those circumstances for the working poor of England?

In all of the rhetoric from the Leave campaigners, I can't recall anything concrete about the economic benefits of separation from the EU. It is all angry talk about 'taking our country back' and 'stopping foreigners from taking our jobs'.

I think there are some powerful forces around who have worked out how to capture that anger and direct it for their own purposes. One of the main backers of the Leave campaign was profiled in the Australian papers yesterday, he is a billionaire businessman. Chump said leaving the EU was 'fantastic', and I have a strong urge to be suspicious of anything that Chump thinks is 'fantastic'. Most of what Chump thinks is 'fantastic' is really tied to what he thinks he can make money out of. After all, for Chump, the only really fantastic thing is money.

So I'm much more suspicious of these string-pulling back-room business types than the so-called 'EU Beaureacrats'. In Western society, business outguns beauracracy all the time. A lot of the talk about 'the evils of government' from right-wingers, is so that they can dismantle the regulations that stop them from concentrating yet more wealth in their hands.

And I think all this talk about 'the people taking their country back' is very sad. The fish and chip shop owners and unemployed parents won't be any better of as a result, after the euphoria of 'independence day' has passed, and the placards are all put away, I can't see how there will be any economic benefits for them. It's all pseudo-patriotic sloganeering, as far as I can see.

Malcolm wrote:
In the end, it is about the austerity programs the EU and its bankers keep shoving down its member countries' throats.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 26th, 2016 at 9:16 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa tradition & magic
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Mamiwhata?


Malcolm wrote:
It is a kind of nāgā.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 26th, 2016 at 12:45 AM
Title: Re: Adi-Buddha on Wikipedia
Content:
Boomerang said:
I In Buddhist context, the Adi-Buddha is the "Primordial Buddha." This refers to a self-emanating, self-originating Buddha, present before anything else existed.

Malcolm wrote:
This is also wrong.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 26th, 2016 at 12:11 AM
Title: Re: Adi-Buddha on Wikipedia
Content:
smcj said:
It is in fact completely wrong.
Ok, so are you going to edit it?


Malcolm wrote:
Not my job.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 25th, 2016 at 11:57 PM
Title: Re: Adi-Buddha on Wikipedia
Content:


Boomerang said:
I wonder if this is a little bit misleading.

Malcolm wrote:
It is in fact completely wrong.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 25th, 2016 at 9:56 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Jill Stein weighs in on Brexit:
The vote in Britain to exit the European Union (EU) is a victory for those who believe in the right of self-determination and who reject the pro-corporate, austerity policies of the political elites in EU. The vote says no to the EU’s vision of a world run by and for big business. It is also a rejection of the European political elite and their contempt for ordinary people.

Unfortunately, the rejection was also motivated by attacks on immigrants and refugees, which must be opposed. That is a defeat.
http://www.jill2016.com/stein_calls_britain_vote_a_wake_up_call


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 25th, 2016 at 7:35 PM
Title: Re: Natural Luminosity
Content:


Temicco said:
I'm not entirely sure. In the Milindapanha for example, it is said that the characteristic mark of wisdom (which I assume to be panna) is "illuminating". Immediately thereafter it says that when wisdom arises in the mind, it either makes the radiance of knowledge shine forth, or it caues the light of knowledge to arise (the two translations I have differ as to which of these is done by knowledge and which by vision). The Dvedhavitakka compares each of the tevijja to light, but whether this can be generalized to vidya as a whole is uncertain. Page 121 of Nanamoli's Patisambhidamagga, in which knowledge is discussed, compares knowledge (of the 4NT) to light.

Malcolm wrote:
The vidyā discussed in the Pali canon is not the vidyā discussed in Dzogchen.


Temicco said:
The term I am translating as luminosity is 'od gsal (ābhāsvara/prabhāsvara).
That specific term may only come up in contexts discussing purity. Again, however, I see no reason why it couldn't play multiple connotative roles.

Malcolm wrote:
It is a translation issue-- Tibetan is a synonym poor language, compared to Sanskrit. But there is no cross over between luminosity as ultimate purity of phenomena and usages of the term where it actually means light.

Temicco said:
Is clarity phenomenologically luminous? The passage is quite explicit.

Malcolm wrote:
The Chinese, in the context noted above, translate ābhāsvara/prabhāsvara as purity. Clarity refers to the open space of the mind, which receives impressions.

Temicco said:
Well yeah, I do say they're different. I'm doubtful that connotation and polysemy didn't creep into the terms used. Especially when only two of the quotes you posted are absolutely clear that a reductive interpretation of prabhasvara is accurate.

Malcolm wrote:
Context is everything. But you are trying to match terms from four different languages, in several traditions all at once. This is just going to cause you confusion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 25th, 2016 at 10:07 AM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
Boomerang said:
I've believed in rebirth longer than I've believed in Buddhism. Still, I feel that I could believe in rebirth more. Then I would have more samvega and bodhicitta.

Astus said:
If you accept rebirth and you want to improve your motivation, contemplate the six realms and the drawbacks of samsara.

Boomerang said:
I've been trying to do that, visualizing myself burning, freezing, being eaten alive, and so on. That was what prompted me to start this thread. The more I do it the less serious it seems, like I'm just imagining a fantasy. So then I thought, "I must not believe in rebirth enough."

I think the contemplations also make me neurotically self-critical and pessimistic. In fact, reading over Words of My Perfect Teacher, it seems like Patrul Rinpoche encourages readers to contemplate the faults of samsara until they are complete neurotic messes who never want to smile or sleep.

Malcolm wrote:
WOMPT is a masterpiece of Tibetan literature, and it has a pointed sense of humor in Tibetan difficult to emulate in English. Its tone should be read as dry, sardonic and ironically amused when it comes to samsara, and estatic when it comes to the oath and uts result.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 25th, 2016 at 9:59 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
If anybody wanted to argue that we are far from ready for participatory democracy, here is the ammo:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/


Malcolm wrote:
Democracy includes the right to make poor decisions, as well as the obligation to cope with them. Hopefully, people learn from their errors.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 25th, 2016 at 4:54 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Unknown said:
So what started as a gamble by David Cameron on an outlet for domestic British discontent, to be used as a lever to bargain with Brussels for a few more favors, has metastasized into an astonishing political earthquake about the dis-integration of the European Union.

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/24/why-the-uk-said-bye-bye-to-the-eu/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 25th, 2016 at 2:26 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
¡Basta Ya, Brussels! British Voters Reject EU Corporate Slavestate:
The EU has shown that it is as incapable of reform as it is of accepting responsibility for perpetuating a financial crisis that began 7 years ago and persists to this very day. It has also demonstrated repeatedly that it will not hesitate to inflict as much economic pain as possible on its victims unless they comply with its counterproductive edicts. Worst of all, the strict rules of the EU make it impossible for state representatives to follow the will of their people or to act in a way that serves their own national interests. Any deviation from Brussel’s neoliberal consensus is likely to end up before the European Court of Justice where the mega corporations have the upper hand. By leaving the EU, Britain will restore its sovereignty and strengthen its democracy.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/24/basta-ya-brussels-british-voters-reject-eu-corporate-slavestate/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 25th, 2016 at 12:38 AM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:


Nicholas Weeks said:
Now no type of governance is perfect is promoting freeing ethics and opposing captivity producing vice, but Communism plainly hates freedom and prefers a slavish populace.

Malcolm wrote:
So does Walmart, McDonald's, etc., so what to do?

China has much stricter rules about porn and so on than we do, and is really a Confucian society with barely a veneer of Communism left. etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 25th, 2016 at 12:27 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa tradition & magic
Content:
Karinos said:
I remember Lama Dawa Chhodak Rinpoche explaining in simple language that "those who hold mantra" and those who received hair Troma empowerment are "baby ngakpas" . Ultimately one should complete Maha, Anu, Atiyoga paths and receive 100 special empowerments of Zhitro deities - placing each deity in body of disciple. Only then one can be called Ngakpa (with capital N).



but maybe my memory is crooked

Malcolm wrote:
Different Lamas have different ideas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 25th, 2016 at 12:16 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
That very much depends on which one of the five Samantabhadra's one is discussing. But in general here we are discussing the adibuddha who attained liberation without engaging in an iota of virtue.

White Lotus said:
beautiful. this thread is really quite something! i begin to understand what you Dzogchenpas and Mahamudrins mean by ''non duality'' or ''non judgement''. its not my style, but still i can see the truth in this approach. i would say that one should be free to practice virtue or non virtue as ones conscience dictates. just to naturally be an ordinary person, or if one chooses: extraordinary. freedom to say no or yes as one naturally would. to see the virtue for example in a buddha's anger, or impatience is liberating.

best wishes, Tom.

Malcolm wrote:
That is not what is meant by the above. Samantabhadra achieved buddhahood prior to the split between samsara and nirvana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 25th, 2016 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
You really could advance from destruction to deconstruction.

Malcolm wrote:
Ugggh, talk about poseurs, Derrida is the worst.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 11:35 PM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
Reasons to remain anti-communist:

http://blog.victimsofcommunism.org/ten-reasons-why-we-must-remain-anti-communists/

Malcolm wrote:
I am not against antiquated nineteenth century politics no one practices anymore. There are other more pressing issues.

Nicholas Weeks said:
Looks like you did not read the piece closely.  One of the key graphs is this one:
I am an anti-communist because I value freedom not because the people who suppress such freedoms call themselves communists. If we are truly anti-communists, we must recognize and communicate to others that the victory over communism will be possible only if there is a victory over all the forms of human oppression that are associated not just with communism but with other political systems as well.
Buddha said his Dharma had one taste - the taste of freedom.  Did he mean only freedom from spiritual ignorance, personal craving, anger etc?  I think not.


Malcolm wrote:
I doubt very much he had neoliberalism in mind...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 11:15 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Unknown said:
"Democracy" means nothing else other than, "rule of the people", in Greek. There is nothing democratic about the political concepts of the United States and Europe. And there is absolutely nothing democratic about the "global arrangement" through which the West has been ruling over the rest of the world for decades and centuries. The second part is, I'm convinced, much more important, much more devastating; in the West, people have been tolerating their insane political system, in exchange for the countless privileges they are getting from their countries' plundering of the planet, and violating entire nations and continents. But in Africa, Asia and elsewhere, those "un-people" have no choice at all.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.sott.net/article/320734-Russia-and-China-are-hated-because-they-are-protecting-humanity-from-Western-terror-Interview-with-Andre-Vltchek?utm_content=bufferf8938&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 11:13 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
So you're pro promiting causes by fostering racism among the working class?


Malcolm wrote:
Hahahaha, I have not fostered any such thing. Racism is a symptom of Europe's dysfunction, not the cause of it.

Anders mentioned free movement of labor, well, when you have a house, your kids are in school and so on, it is pretty hard to just pick and move for a new job somewhere else. Labor mobility favors the young, not the established, married, mortgaged life.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 10:58 PM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
Reasons to remain anti-communist:

http://blog.victimsofcommunism.org/ten-reasons-why-we-must-remain-anti-communists/

Malcolm wrote:
I am not against antiquated nineteenth century politics no one practices anymore. There are other more pressing issues.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 10:56 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
I'm closer living to the consequences of it, involved in that game. So your concern is duly noted.

Malcolm wrote:
We live on one (suffering) planet, and the solution is not hegemonic economies as we have had for the past 70 years. The solution is increased decentralization of power and economies, and increased investment in clean energies, etc.

We do not live in a world any longer where issues in Europe do not affect the US, etc. we live in a world where everything is too tightly wound, and where that which appears to benefit Americans and Europeans really is just temporary gain, until corporation x, y, or z decides to move to Timbuktu where labor is a pittance.

Europe is swiftly moving to a heavily entrenched class-based society based on ethnic origin with Africans and refugees at the bottom, and traditional nationals at the top of the heap.

You are now beginning to experience what America went through with all the mass immigrations from Europe during the late nineteenth and early Twentieth centuries. You are looking at 100 years years of trying to figure out how to integrate not only former colonies, but also economic and other refugees. You are a wealthy block of nations that many people in the world want a chunk of, understandably.

People think Americans are racists — I have encountered the most astonishing xenophobia and racism ever in my life among European Buddhists. Ole Nyadahl is tame compared to some of the amazing stuff I have heard.

Radical change is upon us, we are heading into a period of intense world instability. If we manage survive without some lunatic setting off nukes, it will be amazing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Anders said:
This is a terrible outcome.

I don't think people appreciate what a landmark the free movement of labour really is.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not really a free movement of labor. It is actually the free movement of corporations.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 10:27 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
The decision came by a narrow margin. Supposedly the xenophobic propaganda made that possible. Trying to duck the backfire of the colonies. And the old voted over the youngs.

So that "independence" is born upon a racial-religious defilement (they weren't in the currency union in the first place).
That makes it an opposition, not a liberty.

Ye Buddhas.


Malcolm wrote:
While the vote may have been carried for the wrong reasons (Boris Johnson, etc.) it was the right way to go. Now Scotland is sure to leave the UK...something Cameron tried to prevent.

Anders said:
Surely you are in favour of this, seeing as you prefer local governance.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, absolutely. I was disappointed when Scotland did not manage to bust out of the UK.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 10:20 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
More jobs can be doubted. More well-paid jobs can be doubted even more.

Are we going to re-establish border controls in Northern Ireland now? Basically, the border security, which has been raised as an anti-EU argument, are governed by the Schengen-Treaty. Britain never ratified it. Still going to tolerate it? That would be against the spirit of separatism ...

And what about U.K. citizens who founded families and living in Europe because of labour mobility within the EU? (Northern Ireland probably again is the biggest issue). Are they being sent back "home"?
And what about EU citizens who founded families in Britain, because of the same? Are they being sent back "home"?

Before all, it appears a victory for sophist demagogues, creating an illusiory justification for Segregation.

Best wishes
Kc

Malcolm wrote:
Get over it. Things change: times change, economies change, nations change. Everyone will manage, the sky is not falling.

I find it somewhat amazing that people who are nominally left in Europe so enthusiastically favor policies which originate from the Chicago School of Economics and the American Right:
Neo-liberalism would accept the nineteenth century liberal emphasis on the fundamental importance of the individual, but it would substitute for the nineteenth century goal of laissez- faire as a means to this end, the goal of the competitive order. It would seek to use competition among producers to protect consumers from exploitation, competition among employers to protect workers and owners of property, and competition among consumers to protect the enterprises themselves. The state would police the system, establish conditions favorable to competition and prevent monopoly, provide a stable monetary framework, and relieve acute misery and distress. The citizens would be protected against the state by the existence of a free private market; and against one another by the preservation of competition.
And:
It is essential, however, that the performance of this function involve the minimum of interference with the market. There is justification for subsidizing people because they are poor, whether they are farmers or city-dwellers, young or old. There is no justification for subsidizing farmers as farmers rather than because they are poor. There is justification in trying to achieve a minimum income for all; there is no justification for setting a minimum wage and thereby increasing the number of people without income; there is no justification for trying to achieve a minimum consumption of bread separately, meat separately, and so on.
Milton Friedman, from Neo-Liberalism and its Prospects ( http://0055d26.netsolhost.com/friedman/pdfs/other_commentary/Farmand.02.17.1951.pdf )


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 7:45 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
The decision came by a narrow margin. Supposedly the xenophobic propaganda made that possible. Trying to duck the backfire of the colonies. And the old voted over the youngs.

So that "independence" is born upon a racial-religious defilement (they weren't in the currency union in the first place).
That makes it an opposition, not a liberty.

Ye Buddhas.


Malcolm wrote:
While the vote may have been carried for the wrong reasons (Boris Johnson, etc.) it was the right way to go. Now Scotland is sure to leave the UK...something Cameron tried to prevent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 7:42 PM
Title: Re: Natural Luminosity
Content:
Temicco said:
In other contexts luminosity means a knowing capacity, or sometimes even just the experience of something akin to light.

Malcolm wrote:
Citations from original sources, i.e., primary texts?

Temicco said:
Vidya, at the very least, is compared to light that illuminates objects in the Dvedhavitakka sutta, the Milindapanha, and the Patisambhidamagga, among others.

Malcolm wrote:
Vijjā, in Pali Buddhist texts, as far as I know, does not have the connotation you are here ascribing to it. Are you certain you are not conflating this with another term?

Temicco said:
Prajna gets wrapped up in the metaphor inasmuch as it is related to vidya, and is said to be illuminative by Bankei.

Malcolm wrote:
The term I am translating as luminosity is 'od gsal (ābhāsvara/prabhāsvara).

Temicco said:
The sermons of Bodhidharma describe the mind as a kind of light which makes the world look as if in daylight.

Malcolm wrote:
This is clarity, gsal ba (vivṛta, uttāna, vyakta), not luminosity.

Temicco said:
Obviously not completely literal, but it's interesting. Im just skeptical that a reductive stance regarding the mind's luminosity hits all the connotative bases, even if the contexts and reasons given for luminosity are different between the mind and vidya.

Malcolm wrote:
You are talking about two different things.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 10:34 AM
Title: Re: Natural Luminosity
Content:
Temicco said:
In other contexts luminosity means a knowing capacity, or sometimes even just the experience of something akin to light.

Malcolm wrote:
Citations from original sources, i.e., primary texts?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 10:14 AM
Title: Re: Natural Luminosity
Content:


Temicco said:
Just in sutra, or in sutrayana? And setting aside the mind for a moment, the luminosity of prajna and vidya, for instance, isn't just about purity, no?

Malcolm wrote:
One mustn't mix the views of sūtra and tantra. Whatever luminosity means in sūtra, it means something somewhat different in tantra, and something else again in Dzogchen. It is important not to mix these distinctions up.

The tantric usage may overlap with the sūtra usage, and the Dzogchen usage may overlap with the tantra usage, but the reverse is not necessarily the case. In other words, the term becomes progressively multivalent up the scale.

Temicco said:
I'm more asking whether you're sure that luminosity only represents purity in sutra, and whether you mean sutra as in all the sutras, or sutrayana as a whole. I've seen prajna and vidya both be described as luminous in sutrayana because of their knowing capacity. And only two of the sutra quotes you listed support an unequival, one-to-one correspondence of purity and luminosity, IMO. I'm not so worried about sutra vs. tantra just yet, although thank you for the heads up.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, I am absolutely sure, and yes, all sutras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 8:18 AM
Title: Re: Natural Luminosity
Content:
Temicco said:
such that if someone comes across a decontextualized line like "the mind is luminous", it may not necessarily be a reference to (only) purity...Surely luminosity can play other roles? What do you think?

Malcolm wrote:
Not in sūtra. But thanks for taking the time to look at these statements. This is what is stated in sūtra. I just translate as it is in the text.

Temicco said:
Just in sutra, or in sutrayana? And setting aside the mind for a moment, the luminosity of prajna and vidya, for instance, isn't just about purity, no?

Malcolm wrote:
One mustn't mix the views of sūtra and tantra. Whatever luminosity means in sūtra, it means something somewhat different in tantra, and something else again in Dzogchen. It is important not to mix these distinctions up.

The tantric usage may overlap with the sūtra usage, and the Dzogchen usage may overlap with the tantra usage, but the reverse is not necessarily the case. In other words, the term becomes progressively multivalent up the scale.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 8:13 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa tradition & magic
Content:
Mica said:
But my ongoing quest/ion is - what do people know about magical/occult practice within Dharma, specifically Tibetan Buddhism? How does it fit into practice?

Malcolm wrote:
93/93

I started out a thelemite. Then I understood that Vajrayāna was a nontheistic magickal path. But not only that, I understood that is was actually the swiftest path to liberation. Vajrayāna, and Dzogchen in particular, eclipse the WET tradition in so many ways. But you will only discover that by setting down that path yourself without hesitation or doubt.


Don't look back.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 8:08 AM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
Rakz said:
Even if there is no rebirth or afterlife the teachings are still beneficial for this lifetime.

Malcolm wrote:
So is golfing (apart from the lumbar injury thing), and maybe more so.

Rakz said:
Could be but I hate golf.

Malcolm wrote:
At least we agree on this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 5:24 AM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
Rakz said:
Even if there is no rebirth or afterlife the teachings are still beneficial for this lifetime.

Malcolm wrote:
So is golfing (apart from the lumbar injury thing), and maybe more so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 5:21 AM
Title: Re: Natural Luminosity
Content:
Temicco said:
such that if someone comes across a decontextualized line like "the mind is luminous", it may not necessarily be a reference to (only) purity...Surely luminosity can play other roles? What do you think?

Malcolm wrote:
Not in sūtra. But thanks for taking the time to look at these statements. This is what is stated in sūtra. I just translate as it is in the text.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 5:01 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa tradition & magic
Content:
conebeckham said:
After all, a "Hair Empowerment" is passed from master to student, and this is the definition of lineage.

Malcolm wrote:
Since it is connected with Chö, it means one is a kind of Buddhist sadhu, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 4:09 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
AlexMcLeod said:
I think you're forgetting one very famous example of a person who became enlightened without hearing a Buddha teach. He became a teacher as well. I'll let you think it through.


Malcolm wrote:
Not really into guessing games. If you've someone in mind, please be forthcoming.

smcj said:
I'm gonna guess he's talking about Sakyamuni.


Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, I don't play games...and this is not even necessarily true. For example, after Śakyamuni's awakening, according to the Sarvatathāgatatatvasamgraha tantra, the root tantra of Yoga tantra, there was still something he needed to do...so the tathāgatas appeared to him and schooled him in the five abhisambodhis...then he attained full buddhahood.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 3:53 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa tradition & magic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Hindu Ngakpas:


tomamundsen said:
Are they brahmins or tantrikas?


Malcolm wrote:
Brahmins. But all tantric rites are based ultimately on vedic principles so...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 3:45 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa tradition & magic
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Hindu Ngakpas:



Interesting, I know one Tibetan Lama who rocks the dhoti for his white lower robe:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 3:39 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa tradition & magic
Content:


dzoki said:
No ngagpa is not just that, plus there are quite a few ngagpas who cut their hair. And there are several other ways how to become ngagpa apart from Throma empowrment. Ngagpa is a non-celibate vajrayana practitioner in general, but ngagpa is also a sort of institution in India, Nepal and Tibet (in Bhutan they have similar tradion, members of which are called gomchen). Ngagpa is a guy to whom people go for astrological prognostication and divination, for protection rituals and amulets, for burial and funeral rituals and also for advice on spiritual and temporal matters. Ngagpa is a bit similar to a village shaman in other cultures. So real ngagpa needs to know how to do all of those things, otherwise he is just ngagchung, a small ngagpa, a ngagpa in training. Yet ngagpa is again not only that, he is also a yogi, who spends time with his own practice, often doing shorter and longer retreats. Unlike shaman, all of the activities of ngagpa should be motivated by bodhicitta.

Malcolm wrote:
A "real" Ngakpa (i.e. someone who can engage in the ten activities of a ritual master, etc.) is essentially the Tibetan equivalent of a brahmin. In this respect, they could even be a monk.

dzoki said:
Mostly yes, but from what I have heard monks are not allowed to partake in certain activities and rituals of somewhat violent nature. Don´t really know what the deal really is here.

Malcolm wrote:
I think that depends on school. Sakyapa monks do everything.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 3:24 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa tradition & magic
Content:
BuddhaFollower said:
Why does everyone keep saying ngakpa is a tradition, lineage, etc.?

A ngakpa is just someone who has received a hair empowerment during Troma Nagmo transmission, and thus has the obligation of not cutting their hair.

dzoki said:
No ngagpa is not just that, plus there are quite a few ngagpas who cut their hair. And there are several other ways how to become ngagpa apart from Throma empowrment. Ngagpa is a non-celibate vajrayana practitioner in general, but ngagpa is also a sort of institution in India, Nepal and Tibet (in Bhutan they have similar tradion, members of which are called gomchen). Ngagpa is a guy to whom people go for astrological prognostication and divination, for protection rituals and amulets, for burial and funeral rituals and also for advice on spiritual and temporal matters. Ngagpa is a bit similar to a village shaman in other cultures. So real ngagpa needs to know how to do all of those things, otherwise he is just ngagchung, a small ngagpa, a ngagpa in training. Yet ngagpa is again not only that, he is also a yogi, who spends time with his own practice, often doing shorter and longer retreats. Unlike shaman, all of the activities of ngagpa should be motivated by bodhicitta.

Malcolm wrote:
A "real" Ngakpa (i.e. someone who can engage in the ten activities of a ritual master, etc.) is essentially the Tibetan equivalent of a brahmin. In this respect, they could even be a monk.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 2:47 AM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Hahahahahaahahahhaha, the Buddha was a buddha, and people were still confused as shit by his teachings, and he taught them directly in their own language.

BuddhaFollower said:
Buddha taught an internalized version of Srauta.

So you would have to know about Srauta, whether back then or today, to understand what Buddha was teaching.

Malcolm wrote:
Uhuh, so your present theory is that only brahmins can understand Buddhadharma?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 2:32 AM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:


weenid said:
Scriptural evidence and teacher's authority showing a realized translator:

Malcolm wrote:
My friend, I was referring to the present day, not the eighth century in Tibet. Of course we all accept that Bagor Vairocana was a realized person. But you do understand that in the end, all such authority depends on your acceptance of it as such, correct?

And of course, citations are not enough. You also need reasoning.

Crazywisdom said:
I think you'll agree that when the teaching is coming from a text revealed by the girl the blessings are intense.

Also I would think that you have at least some degree of realization of these texts just based on my experience of you.

Malcolm wrote:
All I can say for myself is that I have been incredibly fortunate to receive the blessings of many fantastic masters. To them I owe any qualities I may have developed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 2:29 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
AlexMcLeod said:
I think you're forgetting one very famous example of a person who became enlightened without hearing a Buddha teach. He became a teacher as well. I'll let you think it through.


Malcolm wrote:
Not really into guessing games. If you've someone in mind, please be forthcoming.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 2:18 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
so anyone who awakens to reality is a "Buddha", even if she is from a different tradition (Christianity, Vedanta) or no tradition (philosophy, science)?


Malcolm wrote:
That really depends on what they awaken to, now doesn't it?

gad rgyangs said:
as you said:
the reality of things is always there, awakening to it is always possible whether or not there is a buddha in the world
either you awaken to this "reality of things" or you don't. But the implication of what you are saying is that anyone can awaken to it even if they have never heard of Buddhas or Buddhism. So, they could be a Christian, a Vedantin, a secular philosopher, a poet, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, hence the category of āryas called "pratyekabuddhas." But since they do not teach, how would one know who they are?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 2:05 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
awakening to it is always possible whether or not there is a buddha in the world, re: MMK. That reality is the Dharma, Buddhas realize it.

gad rgyangs said:
so anyone who awakens to reality is a "Buddha", even if she is from a different tradition (Christianity, Vedanta) or no tradition (philosophy, science)?


Malcolm wrote:
That really depends on what they awaken to, now doesn't it?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 1:41 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
and of what use is this baroque mythology?

Malcolm wrote:
If it is not useful to you, I suggest you set it aside without judgement.

gad rgyangs said:
ok so we're back where we started: I was saying that the standard Buddhist teaching is that we are "trapped" in unending Samsara until we become awake/enlightened by following the dharma. you were saying that there is no need for Buddhadharma, we will inevitably "let go" of attachment to self without it.

Malcolm wrote:
Um, no, I did not say anything of the sort. What I said was that your recommendation to "choose to let go" was fraught with the same problem of reification you were criticizing.

I further pointed out that since the reality of things is always there, awakening to it is always possible whether or not there is a buddha in the world, re: MMK. That reality is the Dharma, Buddhas realize it. If you want to get into yet another long and boorish series of exchanges about "what reality", "who realizes" and so on, replete with fear and apprehension about the possibility of the specter of reification, not interested.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 1:36 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
Opinions, umm, yes, conscious experience appears to contain all I've ever encountered.

SpinyNorman said:
Don't worry, us Brits are not the least bit interested in the [INFLAMMATORY AND REDUNDANT ADJECTIVE DELETED] ramblings of some [NOT VERY NICE NAME-CALLING DELETED].

Malcolm wrote:
Did you just call me a [NOT VERY NICE NAME-CALLING DELETED]? Because if so, that is incredibly ill-mannered, especially considering that I don't [DELETED TO KEEP THINGS CONSISTENT]. And as far as [DELETED TO KEEP THINGS CONSISTENT] goes, well:



MODS TO THE RESCUE. Let's keep the dialogue at least at 5th grade level. THANKS!

QQ


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 24th, 2016 at 12:14 AM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
Not if the translator is realized.

Malcolm wrote:
Hahahahahaahahahhaha, the Buddha was a buddha, and people were still confused as shit by his teachings, and he taught them directly in their own language.

A realized translator is a desiderata, but go ahead and show me one, and then tell me how it is that you know they are realized. And further, if the translator is realized, what is the point of his or her making translations when they can just teach directly from their experience?

weenid said:
Scriptural evidence and teacher's authority showing a realized translator:

Malcolm wrote:
My friend, I was referring to the present day, not the eighth century in Tibet. Of course we all accept that Bagor Vairocana was a realized person. But you do understand that in the end, all such authority depends on your acceptance of it as such, correct?

And of course, citations are not enough. You also need reasoning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 11:52 PM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
and of what use is this baroque mythology?

Malcolm wrote:
If it is not useful to you, I suggest you set it aside without judgement.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 11:43 PM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
doesnt ChNNR say that he should not be thought of as an independent being but rather our real nature?



Malcolm wrote:
That is one of the five, Nature Samantabhadra. With all due respect to ChNN, he does not teach all that there is to know of Dzogchen teachings, because in fact there is too much to learn, and he is focused on what is practical for people who will never learn Tibetan nor read the vast literature of Dzogchen teachings in his lifetime.

Further, there is an account of the liberation of Samantabhadra and the delusion of sentient beings. This is not inconsistent with ChNN's observation you bring up.
All phenomena should be understood as the nature of the five Samantabhadras. If it is asked what they are, it is as follows: Original Nature Samantabhadra, Ornament Samantabhadra, Teacher Samantabhadra, Vidyā Samantabhadra and Realization Samantabhadra.
-- Mind Mirror of Samantabhadra Tantra


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 11:19 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You may not believe in future telling, but your posts are chock full of value statements.

Kaccāni said:
Of course they are. Otherwise I'd only have come here to either ask questions or gargle.
I don't believe in future telling or value statements.

Malcolm wrote:
You make them, but you don't believe in them?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 11:11 PM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure orthodox buddhism teaches that unless you go for refuge etc you will trapped forever in the endless cycles of samsara.

Malcolm wrote:
No, obviously this is not correct. If it were so, how would have Samantabhadra attained liberation? In whom would he have taken refuge.

What Nāgārjuna notes in the MMK, to paraphrase, is that even if there were no buddhas at present, awakening is always possible because the reality of things is always present.

gad rgyangs said:
who is Samantabhadra?

Malcolm wrote:
That very much depends on which one of the five Samantabhadra's one is discussing. But in general here we are discussing the adibuddha who attained liberation without engaging in an iota of virtue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 10:33 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Unknown said:
The so-called Brexit vote is the culmination of years of growing disillusionment—mostly from older and working class Britons—with the European Union’s trade agreements and open border policies. It is also part of a larger trend. Across Europe, populist parties have been fighting to regain sovereignty from the EU. The problems of each country, and of the European Union itself, are contemporary, specific, and complicated. But they fit into a model that some scientists have recognized as symptomatic of a civilization on its way towards disintegration.

Malcolm wrote:
And:
But Turchin thinks a wide view of world history will show that lack of cooperation between rulers and ruled helped bring bring about the end of the Russian Tsars, the French Monarchy, the British Empire, and many others.
And:
Turchin says Brexit is just a symptom of Europe’s larger issues. These start in Brussels—the site of the EU’s central government. “One of the biggest problems is even though the EU seems democratic, the government is not democratically elected by the people of Europe, and therefore not directly responsive to the population,” says Turchin. Take, for instance, the heavy-handed austerity measures it imposed during the 2010 European debt crisis. Those resulted in widespread unemployment, which is still a problem. And now the EU is dealing with the migrant and immigration crises.
http://www.wired.com/2016/06/science-civilizations-brexit-european-unions-reckoning/?mbid=social_fb


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 10:23 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I don't think you really get it. The EU is a mistake. It is going to splinter anyway.

Kaccāni said:
I get that this is your opinion. It really only needed the first post.

There are many. I don't believe in future telling or value statements.

Best wishes
Kc

Malcolm wrote:
You may not believe in future telling, but your posts are chock full of value statements.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 10:22 PM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Let's not put the cart before the horse, shall we?

Kaccāni said:
Whether you want to ride the horse or sit in the cabin, your call

Malcolm wrote:
The point is that the only way to transcend the Buddha's teaching is to become a buddha oneself. This does not happen merely by wishing it to be so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 9:59 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
The "British" are not so united.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't think you really get it. The EU is a mistake. It is going to splinter anyway.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 9:57 PM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Those who are truly interested in Buddhadharma will make some effort to reconcile themselves to Buddha's teaching of rebirth.

Kaccāni said:
And at least as much to transcend them.

Malcolm wrote:
Let's not put the cart before the horse, shall we?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 9:44 PM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
mossy said:
funny thing though, just like the 94 assault weapons ban, the manufacturer of kinder eggs found a way to sidestep the ban by making small changes to the product.  by making a small part of the capsule visible through the chocolate, the egg was able to be sold in the united states again. so we do actually still have them around here, they are just a little different from the ones found in other places.  same thing happened with AR-15's and other "assault weapons"  back during the 94 ban. name change, swap the birdcage or whatever flash hider they were using for a pinned muzzle break, get rid of barrel shrouds, hack off the bayonet lugs, and its was no longer a banned assault weapon.  defining what an "assault weapon" or other product you want banned is by cosmetic features, means the ban will alwase be bypassed by manufacturers because cosmetic features can easily be changed.

Malcolm wrote:
The point is to eliminate civilian access to semi-automatic weapons. Some facts for consideration:

Despite national attention to the issue of firearm violence, most Americans are unaware that gun crime is lower today than it was two decades ago.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/#u-s-firearm-deaths

Thus the argument that one needs a gun for protection is downright ludicrous. In fact, the number one categories of victims of gun homicides are African Americans at 55%.

"...gun suicides now account for six-in-ten firearms deaths, the highest share since at least 1981."

"Compared with other developed nations, the U.S. has a higher homicide rate and higher rates of gun ownership, but not higher rates for all other crimes."

"The Small Arms Survey in 2007 found not only that U.S. civilians had more total firearms than any other nation (270 million) but also that the rate of ownership (about 90 firearms for every 100 people) was higher than in other countries. “With less than 5 percent of the world’s population, the United States is home to 35-50 per cent of the world’s civilian-owned guns,” according to the survey, which included estimates for 178 countries." (seems a bit obsessive, no?)

"As for gun crime, research has found that the U.S. has a higher gun homicide and overall homicide rate than most developed nations, although the U.S. does not have the world’s highest rate for either. The U.S. does not outrank other developed nations for overall crime, but crimes with firearms are more likely to occur in the U.S."

"According to U.N. statistics, the U.S. firearm homicide rate and overall homicide rate are higher than those in Canada and in Western European and Scandinavian nations, but lower than those in many Caribbean and Latin American countries for which data are available."

"However, the report placed the U.S. among the top countries for attacks involving firearms. “Mexico, the USA and Northern Ireland stand out with the highest percentages gun-related attacks (16%, 6% and 6% respectively).” The U.S. had the highest share of sexual assault involving guns."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 9:16 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
DGA said:
point of historical order:

when the Romans finally vacated the British Isles, they left a power vacuum.  The Celts had grown accustomed to Roman power keeping order.  Who filled that vacuum?  Angles and Saxons from what is now Flanders and/or the Netherlands--people who speak what we now know of as Old English, which is a very different tongue indeed from anything Celtic.  The Celts were pushed northward and westward into Cornwall, Wales, and Scotland, where Celtic languages such as Welsh and Scots Gaelic are still spoken.  (and until the middle of the last century, the Isle of Man too.)

my point is that English-ness is derived from those Angles, and not from the Celts displaced by their ancestors.

Which means that the English are, at the core, descendents of economic migrants from Continental Europe.


Malcolm wrote:
Well, not exactly. The Celts resisted the Romans right up till their departure.

Then the Angles and Saxons moved in as a result of pressure on them from the East, and because, as you say, because the British Isles were left in a power vacuum with the withdrawal of the legions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 9:03 PM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:


Jeff H said:
I’m only aware of two alternatives: eternal soul and nothing.

Malcolm wrote:
The third alternative is dependent origination. This is the Buddha's alternative.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 8:59 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Right, it is post William the Conquerer thing, as above.

In Antiquity, the Romans found Britain to be a dreadful place filled with awful Celts and Picts, and spent most of their time dealing with guerrilla insurrections during the three and half centuries of the Roman conquest. I think the EU is finding out the same thing.

I guess that is the point of the referendum. The British would like to decide this for themselves since a large number of UK citizens don't self-identify as European. I would also wager that a high percentage of the people who do not want the EU are working class.

dzoki said:
If Romans found Britain to be such a dreadful place, I assure you, they would not have stayed there (as they did, even after the collapse of the empire).

Malcolm wrote:
Like conquerers anywhere, the Romans had a specific commodity they wanted from Britain — tin.

dzoki said:
They certainly found area that is present day Slovakia a dreadful place and apart from one excursion by Marcus Aurelius and his army during Marcomannic wars they never again ventured into this territory.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, all terrible "ale," no wine or olive oil.

dzoki said:
The referendum is not on the question whether UK is part of Europe, but whether it is a part of EU, which is a different thing.

Malcolm wrote:
In the minds of the people who oppose it, there is no difference.

if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 8:42 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
If the far right gets too strong, we're going to get another wave of killings. If capitalism continues to concentrate, we're going to get another wave of killings.


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, therefore the best thing to do is to prevent power aggregation and keep governments and economies small and local.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 8:36 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:




dzoki said:
Oh no, British have been more part of Europe, than they want to admit. Their ancestors came from the continent, their ruling family is from Germany (and the previous ones were from Netherlands, France and Denmark), they vacation in Spain and drink French vines. English language has 30 percent of shared vocabulary with French.

Malcolm wrote:
By this reasoning, the USA is part of Europe.

dzoki said:
USA is on different continent, which UK is not. Also UK has always meddled in continental Europe (and vice-versa), including intermarrying of its nobility to European noble houses, trade, war and cultural exchange and it is not a recent thing.

There is a period we call antiquity and the middle ages in which many things that are shared across the continent including British isles took shape.
Culturally and geographically Britain clearly belongs to Europe. If you look into the country you see castles and Gothic churches just like anywhere else in Europe. You don´t see these in America or anywhere else for that matter.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, it is post William the Conquerer thing, as above.

In Antiquity, the Romans found Britain to be a dreadful place filled with awful Celts and Picts, and spent most of their time dealing with guerrilla insurrections during the three and half centuries of the Roman conquest. I think the EU is finding out the same thing.

I guess that is the point of the referendum. The British would like to decide this for themselves since a large number of UK citizens don't self-identify as European. I would also wager that a high percentage of the people who do not want the EU are working class.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 8:21 PM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Rebirth is not a soul thing. [Cue: great rebirth thread]

Kaccāni said:
That makes the second problem to explain, then, we weren't there yet.

Malcolm wrote:
Those who are truly interested in Buddhadharma will make some effort to reconcile themselves to Buddha's teaching of rebirth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 8:13 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
dzoki said:
English language has 30 percent of shared vocabulary with French.

Malcolm wrote:
A result of the Norman hegemony (who themselves were Norseman), which suppressed Angol-Saxon culture, language and institutions.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 8:11 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
dzoki said:
Oh no, British have been more part of Europe, than they want to admit.


SpinyNorman said:
Definitely.  It's also worth remembering that Britain is made up of four nations, each with their own identity and connections to Europe.

Malcolm wrote:
The Scots and Irish are only tangentially connected with Europe. Sure, we sojourned in Portugal for a while, but we came from Scythia, not Gaul, like the Welsh.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 8:09 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Britain is not part of Europe. Never has been.

dzoki said:
Oh no, British have been more part of Europe, than they want to admit. Their ancestors came from the continent, their ruling family is from Germany (and the previous ones were from Netherlands, France and Denmark), they vacation in Spain and drink French vines. English language has 30 percent of shared vocabulary with French.

Malcolm wrote:
By this reasoning, the USA is part of Europe.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 7:53 PM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
So even without Buddhadharma we will let go of grasping self?

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, you recall what Nāgārjuna states in the MMK.

gad rgyangs said:
correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure orthodox buddhism teaches that unless you go for refuge etc you will trapped forever in the endless cycles of samsara.

Malcolm wrote:
No, obviously this is not correct. If it were so, how would have Samantabhadra attained liberation? In whom would he have taken refuge.

What Nāgārjuna notes in the MMK, to paraphrase, is that even if there were no buddhas at present, awakening is always possible because the reality of things is always present.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 10:01 AM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Can you think of any contemporary teacher who had 200 students commit suicide based on a misunderstanding?

Hahahahahaahahahhaha, the Buddha was a buddha, and people were still confused as shit by his teachings, and he taught them directly in their own language.

dzogchungpa said:
I would be surprised if the percentage of confused as shit people among the Buddha's disciples was not substantially lower than the corresponding figure for many contemporary teachers.

Malcolm wrote:
.. if the translator is realized, what is the point of his or her making translations when they can just teach directly from their experience?

dzogchungpa said:
This is a good question. Weren't many of the Tibetan translators, like Marpa or Vairotsana, realized?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 7:20 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
if, as you said above. there is no choice, then whether we act on our afflictions or not is also not the result of choice. Congratulations, you are a Buddhist Calvinist!

Malcolm wrote:
No, you misquote me. I said we have no choice in letting things go. We cannot hold onto anything, even if we want to. This is the nature of impermanence. It is not something we even need to make a choice about.

gad rgyangs said:
So even without Buddhadharma we will let go of grasping self?

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, you recall what Nāgārjuna states in the MMK.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 7:17 AM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
Boomerang said:
If somebody wants to believe in rebirth but has trouble getting to that point, what should they do? What should they read?

Kaccāni said:
Nothing. They're free. Why seduce them into the soul thang, when they don't know the problem at all?

Best wishes
Kc


Malcolm wrote:
Rebirth is not a soul thing. [Cue: great rebirth thread]


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 7:13 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
That global capitalism problem is bigger, and U.S. foreign  policies are not quite innocent in creating it. And Brexit wont stop it.

Malcolm wrote:
And the neoliberal policies that presently drive the EU is going to fix global capitalism how?, given that neo-liberalism is the driving force of global capitalism.

Kaccāni said:
Theose neoliberal policies are not the European people.

Malcolm wrote:
I have been to the continent of Europe many times. In all that time, I have never met a European. I have met French people, Italians, Poles, Germans, etc., but I never met anyone who introduced themselves to me as "European" in the same way Americans introduce themselves as Americans rather than say Californians, Floridians, Michiganders, etc.


Kaccāni said:
Only media power and manipulation are driving people into it. You must understand, that it was more or less a miracle that Merkel rose to power. At the time, Germany had a larger Democrat base than there were Conservatives (which, as an adept of former Chancellor Kohl), she comes from. There were two driving forces that led to her rise. One, the social democats were split by Oscar Lafontaine (with a little help of former East German politician Gregor Gysi). They formed the "socialist left". This, in fact, rendered a democrat majority both as losers to the Conservative fraction in the election. To this date I wonder what they were paid for doing that. Two, the former liberal party, as a junior partner of the conservatives, considerably turned libertarian in the post-Schröderian heir that Merkel inherited and dwells her reign upon. Unfortunately, their key figure, who could stand for liberal values, Guido Westerwelle, died from Leukemia (after failing to lead the party out of that coalition mess).

Merkel herself is good at maintaining power. She knows how to immobilize political opponents, her main skill. Believe me, the majority of Germans (except maybe Bavaria) are not fond of her reign. Her party has lost considerable voters, to the point that there is a right shift to deal with the new right, trying to regain their base. It's that right shift that is the problem here. Liberal attempts at solving that problem have been too easily dealt with. It's exactly this new right that burns down refugee camps here, that is following the Trumpian example of racial and national separationism. Germany, too, is a melting pod.

Malcolm wrote:
I like what Rudolf Bharo said:
“At last I have understood that a party is a counterproductive tool, that the given political space is a trap into which life energy disappears, indeed, where it is rededicated to the spiral of death.”

Kaccāni said:
On top of that, consider that the main source of the new far right originates in the German east (those who were told in this thread to have been screwed over). One problem is, that some rural societies did not have  the 50 years of integration attemts with foreign (Turkish, Croatian, Serbian and Italian) workers that the western parts of Germany had. They were freed from a tyrant at exactly the point where capitalist oligarchies went nuts due to the acceleration of markets by automated trading and globalization. That's bad, but it happened. It's susceptible to prejudice. It has turned formerly socialist-oppressed people into capitalism-oppressed racist-nationalists. Now pouring more prejudice there won't help one single bit, but confirm the (we had it in another thread) silly people who get off on "me first!".

Malcolm wrote:
If you think the solution to prejudice is enforcing the technocratic rule of Brussels, you are kidding yourself. The EU survives solely because it is in Germany's present interest that it survive. When that changes, and it will, the EU will collapse like the house of cards that it is.

Kaccāni said:
Uniting all the integration-opponents throughout Europe by example (who thrive on violence against any minority, or say, "foreigners"), is not the way to go. Heck, Suisse claimed that they have more "foreigners" than any E.U. country, and a German nationalist politician publicly asked whether they count Germans as "foreigners". That's the level of public demagogy there. Those movements exist throughout Europe. Austrian government recently almost turned nationalist-conservative. Let's not talk about Hungary, the chief source of neo-nazism. Or Polish government, who are eager to follow their example. Or those non-central countries like Spain or Greece whose economy suffered a ton. And in the middle of all of that, due to the mess global oil-wars have created in the middle east and the refugee crisis that followed it, Turkish quasi-dicator Erdogan can spill his religio-conservative spit over the whole debate.

Malcolm wrote:
These are symptoms, not the cause. Racism and prejudice are never causes, they are only symptoms of wider dysfunction, and instead of seeing this, you want to double down on a dysfunctional state of affairs.

Kaccāni said:
So now you tell me if you really want more seperationism in Europe or not.

Malcolm wrote:
Britain is not part of Europe. Never has been.

Kaccāni said:
It's the best way, in the end, to unite the nationalist-authoritarian forces and to dispell al the rest. That's what Weimar had, and a 5% requirement won't save us.

Malcolm wrote:
If you really want a European Union, you need to more than just a currency union. You will need an actual democratic government, not a system of trade agreements and enforcers of the same.

Each of the nations which form the EU will need to relinquish its own sovereignty.

Since no European nation is willing to do so, least of all the French, your EU was doomed before it began (and of course, it is not an accident that the former Holy Roman Empire regions get along swimmingly, for the most part). You will also need to decide on one official language in which to conduct all business and which will form the primary language of education.

What you are talking about is not an EU, but a United States of Europe, a USE. But you are very far away from a USE because of the individual desire of each of your member nations to preserve its own unique identity. Thus, there is no chance that Europe will ever be able form into a coherent state.

This is why I think that exit is the best way forward for Britain. It may not happen in this referendum, but it will happen eventually, within the next ten years, I guess.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 6:13 AM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
smcj said:
I advocate simply having enough of an open mind to say to oneself "well, maybe..." Then take it as a hypothetical and look at it intellectually to see if there are internal inconsistencies. Then, without having dismissed it and with an open mind, do your sadhana. One of the signs of progress in sadhana practice is a better understanding and more confidence of karma and rebirth.

Insisting on coming to a firm conclusion about it before you start means you never start imo.

Malcolm wrote:
Personally, I found that having doubt about rebirth was interfering with my practice, so I just accepted it, and I still do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 6:11 AM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
Then there will be less confusion.

Malcolm wrote:
Hahaha, no, there will always be just as much confusion.

Crazywisdom said:
Not if the translator is realized.

Malcolm wrote:
Hahahahahaahahahhaha, the Buddha was a buddha, and people were still confused as shit by his teachings, and he taught them directly in their own language.

A realized translator is a desiderata, but go ahead and show me one, and then tell me how it is that you know they are realized. And further, if the translator is realized, what is the point of his or her making translations when they can just teach directly from their experience?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 5:56 AM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
Boomerang said:
If somebody wants to believe in rebirth but has trouble getting to that point, what should they do? What should they read?

Malcolm wrote:
One will not come to a firm conviction in rebirth through arguments. But if they analyze their mind, and investigate its origin, they will not be able to reject rebirth. Experiential approaches are better than logic.

Boomerang said:
How do you do that?


Malcolm wrote:
You have to ask yourself where your mind comes from. If you think it is a product of the brain, well, there is no way to really convince someone that this is not true. But if they practice meditation, they will eventually loosen their grip on such ideas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: How to believe in rebirth
Content:
Boomerang said:
If somebody wants to believe in rebirth but has trouble getting to that point, what should they do? What should they read?

Malcolm wrote:
One will not come to a firm conviction in rebirth through arguments. But if they analyze their mind, and investigate its origin, they will not be able to reject rebirth. Experiential approaches are better than logic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 5:42 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
Monlam Tharchin said:
So then if there is no choice and no being to practice, why the Buddhadharma?
Please help me see how this conversation is not plunging into emptiness sickness.

Malcolm wrote:
Do we still act on our afflictions? If so, then there continues to be a reason for Buddhadharma.

gad rgyangs said:
if, as you said above. there is no choice, then whether we act on our afflictions or not is also not the result of choice. Congratulations, you are a Buddhist Calvinist!

Malcolm wrote:
No, you misquote me. I said we have no choice in letting things go. We cannot hold onto anything, even if we want to. This is the nature of impermanence. It is not something we even need to make a choice about.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 5:40 AM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:
Crazywisdom said:
I'm about to say something unpopular. Unless, a text is produced by a lama who transmits it, it is useful only for occasional cross reference.

Malcolm wrote:
There wont be many translations then.

Crazywisdom said:
Then there will be less confusion.

Malcolm wrote:
Hahaha, no, there will always be just as much confusion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 5:37 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
That global capitalism problem is bigger, and U.S. foreign  policies are not quite innocent in creating it. And Brexit wont stop it.

Malcolm wrote:
And the neoliberal policies that presently drive the EU is going to fix global capitalism how?, given that neo-liberalism is the driving force of global capitalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 5:14 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
dzoki said:
I think in short term it is better for UK to stay. If UK leaves it will mess up not only UK's economy, but also of other EU countries (especially economy of Poland, kurwa!). Germany will definitely seek revenge by imposing economical restrictions on UK and so will other EU members.

Malcolm wrote:
Ironic, what? Germany, crushed during WWII, the perpetrator of one of the worst wars in world history, now controls what they failed to conquer.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 2:10 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
maybay said:
What's all this about de-legitimizing others' opinions...

Malcolm wrote:
Unfortunately, the anti-gun control people seem immune to an evidence-based, epidemiological approach to guns and gun violence, which is why the CDC is restricted to spending only 100K a year on the issue, out of a $5.5 billion budget, by an act of Congress.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 2:04 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This is not a good reason for staying in. It is like saying, I am in a bad marriage, but if I leave, I might get pimped out, so I would rather stay and be subject to the same beatings as before.

treehuggingoctopus said:
The analogy does not hold. The EU is many things. One of the brilliant things it does is provide us with a transnational platform -- which can never serve neoliberalism and only neoliberalism.

Malcolm wrote:
You see, this is where we disagree. The EU is based on precisely on the kind of damaging free trade agreements that is neoliberalism's hallmark.

treehuggingoctopus said:
And that platform did succeed in preventing nationalism, for as long as we had the social welfare state. It is only now that it is finally gone that the hard right has re-emerged from its caves.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, what I think has happened is that neoliberal program for the Middle East has utterly failed, placing economic and social pressures on the EU it was never equipped to handle, precisely because it is only a currency union and not a nation.

treehuggingoctopus said:
Oh do give us some time.

Malcolm wrote:
Waiting with baited breath.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 1:45 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
Yes, the EU is a bloody mess right now. But exiting destroys the only common platform we have, and if we do so, demons will start to properly wake up again.

Malcolm wrote:
They are waking up anyway.

treehuggingoctopus said:
The crux of the matter is,

(1) Brexit will in all likelihood initiate the collapse of the EU, which is why it is supported by the far right more than anyone else. Neoliberal thugs would not really mind it either -- the grip of their ideology is so firm that neither Brexit nor the collapse of the EU pose any real threat to it. What Hungary, Poland and Ukraine have shown is that you still can have stable marriages of semi-fascist states and firmly neoliberal economies. And

Malcolm wrote:
This is not a good reason for staying in. It is like saying, I am in a bad marriage, but if I leave, I might get pimped out, so I would rather stay and be subject to the same beatings as before.

treehuggingoctopus said:
(2) whether the hard right realises it or not, at the end of the road they want to take there is nothing but carnage. Yugoslavia shows neatly what happens in Europe when common platforms fall apart and nationalism is allowed a place in the public debate. Finally,

Malcolm wrote:
Nationalism is already central. The EU is a failed attempt at controlling the European Nationalisms that led to WWII.


treehuggingoctopus said:
(3) there is no significant genuine leftwing project in Europe capable of making use of Brexit right now.

Malcolm wrote:
There never will be.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 1:02 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:


Virgo said:
Oh I haven't forgotten the guns that were pulled on me growing up back in NYC.  I'll give you an exaple: the first one was when I was about 15, there was a confrontation and he just lifted his shirt and showed what was in his waistband, a 9.

I'll give you another example: I lived in Lefrak City for a few months when I was a teenager.  Shots rang out every night for 6 days in a row.  This was just outside my building.

Best,

Kevin

Rakz said:
And both of the places you mentioned are in a state that have some very strict gun control laws which brings back to the point that these laws do nothing but help criminals by disarming law abiding citizens. No thanks jeff.

Malcolm wrote:
I live in Massachusetts.

Rakz said:
It comes as no surprise to gun control advocates that Massachusetts, a state with gun laws among the strongest in the nation and low gun ownership levels, is ranked as the state with the fewest gun deaths per capita by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Malcolm wrote:
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/1/30/why-massachusetts-has-the-least-guns-deaths.html

Rakz said:
In fact, none of the states with the most gun violence require permits to purchase rifles, shotguns, or handguns. Gun owners are also not required to register their weapons in any of these states. Meanwhile, many of the states with the least gun violence require a permit or other form of identification to buy a gun.

Malcolm wrote:
http://247wallst.com/special-report/2015/06/10/10-states-with-the-most-gun-violence/

Get a clue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 12:55 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Kaccāni said:
Trump will fix it, then


Malcolm wrote:
Oh, lord no. Trump can't fix anything. He is a total loser.

One of the principle reasons I appose large currency unions is that they disadvantage poorer regions. This is also true in the US, BTW.

If you control your own currency, you can price local goods into your economy affordably. But when you belong to a currency union, this becomes impossible. Thus, when Italy joined the EU, prices soared in Italy, making everything much more expensive than before.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 23rd, 2016 at 12:22 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
treehuggingoctopus said:
Corbyn interviewed:

https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/why-i-am-voting-for-britain-to-remain-in-european-union-in-historic-brexit-vote/


Malcolm wrote:
Right, he wants Britain to remain in to lay the ground for a left opposition.

But this is all just a neoliberal mess. Who needs it? Britain should exit, in my opinion. Scotland wants to stay in, of course, because they have no economy apart from tourists, despite a lot of fierce leftist posturing. But they should leave too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 11:51 PM
Title: Re: Refuge/Bodhisattva vows
Content:
Nyedrag Yeshe said:
How is the best way to restore and renew broken refuge and bodhisattva vows? Is it necessary, for someone who actually broke them retakem them again at an actual ceremony with a preceptor. Any thoughts?

Malcolm wrote:
Vajrasattva practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 11:13 PM
Title: Re: Dumping Trump at Convention
Content:
smcj said:
It's people like this that make me think Trump can still win:
https://youtu.be/XuNqNEAIbSA
At around 4 minutes he says he has lots of gay friends that won't publicly admit they support Trump.


Malcolm wrote:
Being gay does not automatically make one sensible, or even intelligent.

smcj said:
No, but being gay is normally a Democratic demographic.

Malcolm wrote:
As I said, being gay does not automatically make one sensible, or even intelligent. What gay person in their right mind is going to support Hillary "Marriage is between a man and a woman" Clinton?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Dumping Trump at Convention
Content:
smcj said:
It's people like this that make me think Trump can still win:
https://youtu.be/XuNqNEAIbSA
At around 4 minutes he says he has lots of gay friends that won't publicly admit they support Trump.


Malcolm wrote:
Being gay does not automatically make one sensible, or even intelligent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 11:03 PM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
One point in the Gulag Introduction, that might make Leftists & Progressives of today squirm...(nah not likely).
As Applebaum concludes, “to many
people the crimes of Stalin [and one may add, those of Mao, Pol Pot, Castro,
Ho Chi Minh etc.] do not inspire the same visceral reaction as do the crimes of
Hitler.” A large part of the reason for these discrepant attitudes was that “to
condemn the Soviet Union too thoroughly would be to condemn a part of
what some of the Western left once held dear as well.” Or as Tony Judt put it:
“To many Western European intellectuals communism was a failed variant of
a common progressive heritage.”

Malcolm wrote:
Well, no, the purges of Stalin, the cultural revolution of Mao, the killing fields of Cambodia, were all essentially born out of an impulse to cultural suicide which was the legacy of centuries of enduring despotic rulers — communism was the excuse, not the cause. It would have happened anyway, whether under a nominally right or left wing regime.

The war in Vietnam was a proxy war, as was the Cuban crisis, and we should have handled things there very differently.

The reason many find the Nazi regime more horrifying is because it was so clearly based on the irrationality of hatred for others.

But in fact, the structure of totalitarian states, whether right or left, are identical. They all rely on a tripod of the military, a civil police force, and a powerful extra-judicial secret police (KGB, Stazi, Gestapo, etc.) who keep watch on the other two.

They all are or should be equally horrific to everyone.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 10:53 PM
Title: Re: Dumping Trump at Convention
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
Disgusting as The Donald is, so much so that my 'any R over any D' promise was made in ignorance of the depth of his shallowness, I cannot blame him entirely.  The overweening ambition of the 15 or 20 other Reps. allowed DT to appear a 'winner'.  Scott Walker dropped out early and asked others at the bottom of the pack to do so too.  Nope, egos ruled.

Malcolm wrote:
Even more than egos, it was all about money and ratings. This election was handpicked by CNN and MSNBC.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 9:36 PM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
Monlam Tharchin said:
So then if there is no choice and no being to practice, why the Buddhadharma?
Please help me see how this conversation is not plunging into emptiness sickness.

Malcolm wrote:
Do we still act on our afflictions? If so, then there continues to be a reason for Buddhadharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 8:58 PM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
kirtu said:
We can (and IMO should) add the sanctity of all life and the deep interdependence of all beings and actions and probably explicitly invoke the Earth/environment as Mother.  People with a more direct perception of these truths will be less likely to harm others even in subtle ways.

Malcolm wrote:
Agreed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 8:57 PM
Title: Re: Dumping Trump at Convention
Content:
Rakz said:
Trump haters everywhere here.

Malcolm wrote:
No, but the man is an idiotic vulgarian whose is unfit for any kind of public service, including handing out parking tickets or sweeping Central Park.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 8:55 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


orgyen jigmed said:
- Longchen Rabjam

Malcolm wrote:
Who also derides those who do not accept empirical conventions...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 8:50 PM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Fa Dao said:
Malcolm, it would be greatly appreciated if you have Dharma citations that answer the two points I made about the Buddha and the ship captain and the 10th vow. If my understanding of these things is incorrect, according to the Teachings, I have no problem being corrected...

Malcolm wrote:
In order for a being to qualify for "liberation" according to the 10th vows you mention, they must fulfill all the following ten criteria: they must be harmful to the teachings; despise the Jewels; rob the property of the Sangha; despise Mahāyāna; physically harm the guru; wound vajra brothers and sisters; create obstacles to accomplishment; utterly lack love and compassion; lack samaya vows; and possess an incorrect view of cause and result.

As far as the famed ship's captain story, in order to act in the manner of the ship's captain, one must possess the same level of clairvoyance as the ship's captain in order to know whether the mind of a being is truly harmful or not. One must also possess realization of emptiness so that one's compassion is free from any sort of personal self-interest and coloring.

We are heading into the age of weapons. But it can be prevented if human beings set down their arms and embrace each other.

This man refused to visit the United States because we invented and continue to possess nuclear weapons:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 10:21 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is no weapon that can render anyone immune from harm, and indeed, where there are weapons, violence increases exponentially in direct proportion to the force multiplication value of any given weapon being used.

Fa Dao said:
Malcolm,
in an ideal world I wholeheartedly agree with you...but this is samsara, and I for one have no problem taking on the bad karma of taking somebody out that is going to harm either my Teacher, one of my Vajra siblings, or an innocent person. Life is short and there are evil people who would take your precious human rebirth from you thereby delaying your Awakening for who knows how long. I am reminded of the story of the Buddha and the ship captain as well as the 10th root commitment of a ngakpa:
"10.   To have compassion for evil beings especially those who harm the doctrine
This refers to failing to act in a potentially disastrous situation and spilling the heart blood of self-justification whenever it violates one vows.  It is a failure of one who holds the bodhisattva vow not to kill, if it saves other beings from harm. A bodhisattva must act towards the liberation of violently malicious beings even if this entails destroying their physical form. This vow must be considered in the context of the fourth vow not to foresake loving kindness on behalf of sentient beings – even those with negative motivation and harmful intentions.   Shakyamuni Buddha told a sea captain that an act of murder he committed was not negative as, having overheard the victim plotting to kill all the others on the boat the captain’s  motivation was compassionate in wishing to save the lives of his five hundred other voyagers. Pacifism should not detract from one’s kindness. If the avoidance of killing is merely cowardice and lack of deep concern for others, then failure to act is a breakage of one’s vows."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 9:53 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
BuddhaFollower said:
All the accounts I have read of tertons flying to Copper Colored Mountain in lucid dreams involves Meru geography.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course, we do not have in dreams the same limitations we have when we are awake.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 9:18 AM
Title: Re: Dumping Trump at Convention
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Trump's obvious political self-annihilation is the only grim satisfaction I will take away from this election season.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 8:48 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I could not vehemently disagree with your assessment any more than I already do. It is time for us all to put down our weapons, unconditionally, especially Dharma practitioners.

Fa Dao said:
The bottom line here is that guns don't kill people...other people do. "Gun control" is not the answer...criminals and those intent on doing harm to others can and will still get them...gun control laws only keep firearms out of the hands of law abiding citizens and leaves them defenseless against criminals who do have them...the answer lies in finding and eliminating the reasons why people kill each other in the first place. If guns are taken away anyone with access to the internet can easily create an IED and take out far more people than what a gun will. That being said I for one am not comfortable having the government well armed and guns taken away or legislated away from ordinary law abiding citizens...that's what leads to a police state. Tiannamon and various central american countries come to mind as case in point. One last example: what do you suppose the outcome would have been in Paris, San Bernardino or Orlando had a few law abiding citizens had legal concealed carry weapons with them?﻿  Just a different point of view to consider....


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 22nd, 2016 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Unknown said:
The Europist left has made a mistake similar to that of the Communists in the past; they too thought that they were acting in the interests of the people, but the latter, being incapable of understanding, had to be led by an unelected elite.


Malcolm wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/21/the-european-dead-end/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 11:56 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Maybe so, maybe not.

Indrajala said:
Norse:


Anders said:
I don't see how nordic mythology fits the bill. It's based on a world tree, not a mountain.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, but it comes from a well reputed site of impeccable credentials...so it must be valid...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 11:23 PM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is also the Dharma of devas and humans

Losal Samten said:
Do you know if this Is enumerated in any Indian Buddhist literature? I only know of the http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Sixteen_pure_human_laws. Jacob Dalton says the idea of the vehicle of gods and men was originally a Chinese invention, which was ported to Tibet when the Dharma there was young, and when it was rooted enough it was dropped from official doxography.

Malcolm wrote:
It is mentioned in the Pali Canon, but I forget where.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 10:59 PM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:


Nicholas Weeks said:
Full agreement on political solutions being of little use.  But social issues are part of the context (or maybe are the context) that point to basic Dharma - 'Always do good, never do evil' (Dhammapada ).


Malcolm wrote:
I think in this case the only solution is personal development through the Dharma.

Nicholas Weeks said:
I would not confine the solution to only Buddhist folk, the basic ethics, if practiced without sectarianism, would go a long way to cooling off life in this realm.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't really confine "Dharma" to Buddha's Dharma. There is also the Dharma of devas and humans: love, compassion and so on, the practice of the four immeasurables.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 10:31 PM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
So understanding better Mara's ways regarding abortion, Communism, transgenderism etc. and all the social issues that are called 'right wing' are part of the wisdom needed, that may, in some very distant era, produce people who, knowing what not to do, will live & radiate ahimsa totally.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't think the solution lies along any political spectrum we can presently anticipate.

Nicholas Weeks said:
Full agreement on political solutions being of little use.  But social issues are part of the context (or maybe are the context) that point to basic Dharma - 'Always do good, never do evil' (Dhammapada ).


Malcolm wrote:
I think in this case the only solution is personal development through the Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 8:28 PM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
So understanding better Mara's ways regarding abortion, Communism, transgenderism etc. and all the social issues that are called 'right wing' are part of the wisdom needed, that may, in some very distant era, produce people who, knowing what not to do, will live & radiate ahimsa totally.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't think the solution lies along any political spectrum we can presently anticipate.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 8:04 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Saying something is nonfalsifible is not the same thing as saying something cannot be falsified. For example, where is Mt. Meru on planet Earth?

If you claim that Meru is actually some structure out in space somewhere, where is it? Things that have been falsified in Meru Cosmology are such things as a geocentric orbit, a flat world and so on.

weenid said:
Mount Meru can be Mount Sineru, the North Pole which is the axis mundi of Earth.

Malcolm wrote:
It is true that some Hindus, who had a round earth theory, maintained that Sumeru was at the poles. But that is equally problematical.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 9:47 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
So, since you think your "Buddhism as therapy" is really nonsensical, in your view there is nothing to fix, since nothing is actually wrong.

Kaccāni said:
But if there is nothing wrong, there couldn't be getting off on the wrong foot big-time.

gad rgyangs said:
If you want to reduce your suffering, it is counterproductive to think that there is something wrong with either yourself or the world. Its basically the "all things are possible if emptiness is possible" idea. Thinking there is something wrong with you and reality is reification of both you and reality, locking you into that idea. When you choose to let go of that, it opens up possibilities that you may find are more to your liking.

Malcolm wrote:
Thinking that one has a choice or that indeed there is a choice in letting go of anything is just as bad, and has exactly the faults you ascribe to "Thinking there is something wrong with you and reality is reification of both you and reality, locking you into that idea."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 9:44 AM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
Here is the Introduction to another book of personal stories From the Gulag to the Killing Fields. The notes are missing in this pdf, you will have to get the book. The Intro is titled "Distinctive Features of Repression in Communist States"

http://www.isi.org/books/content/384intro.pdf

Malcolm wrote:
Friend Nick (we have after all been conversing for years), let me put it to you plainly.

The greatest threat to humanity today is nuclear conflict. We live in a world where no form of government nor regime can keep us safe from the threat of a nuclear holocaust. And in fact, all indications are that we are falling headlong in that kind of conflict, with very few barriers —whether social, political, economic, or military — which seem to be able to withstand it. Thus far, it is only by the amazing self-discipline on the part of all our respective militaries regardless of political system or ideology that we have not actually blown ourselves into oblivion already. We should in fact be amazed we still exist given how easily we can destroy ourselves if just a few conditions are not met or backfire.

So the real question is: how do we prevent humanity's utter self-destruction? This is really the only salient question we should have in our minds in any discussion of post Hiroshima world politics.

In reality, the only acceptable alternative—since all others merely lead to the endless conflict of war and its miseries —is the complete and utter disarmament of humanity. This is the only sane path forward.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 7:54 AM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
Ah, that noble ole road of good intentions that paves the way to...

Simply ridiculous to defend or explain the Reds based on the motive of Lenin or Stalin or Mao or Castro et al.  But Malcolm always had a contrary, contentious streak.

Malcolm wrote:
Marx himself termed Capitalism "progressive," a necessary phase in human history. Marx's specific theory was that the Socialist phase in human history could only happen after the world economy had been completely industrialized under advanced Capitalism. Lenin decided this was not necessary, that one only needed proletariat elites, and that this was sufficient for revolution.

Frankly, Marx really had no idea what advanced Capitalism looked like. He further thought, inaccurately, that the revolution was going to happen in the US and Western Europe. Boy, was he ever mistaken about that.

The brutalism you are referring to was a direct result of Lenin's jumping the gun and revising Marx's theory.

Today, there are no more "Reds", other than in name only. Fascist Corporatism is winning largely because of neoliberalism. Nationalized socialisms such as Stalinism, Maoism, etc., were never going to win against international capital.

As far as I cam concerned, Totalitarianism, whether right or left, "capitalist" or "socialist," needs to be resisted.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 7:20 AM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Myoho-Nameless said:
Kropotkin's anarchist communism and what is normally identified as "communism" colloquially in the US, that is Marxism, are different entities.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed.

Myoho-Nameless said:
HHDL even called himself "half marxist, half Buddhist" I heard.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, something very like that.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 7:18 AM
Title: Re: On Buddhism and Nominalism
Content:
Kaccāni said:
If universals would exist they could be defined as "substance" of the experience they're seen in. Reminds of Michel Foucault with his invisible magic grid.

So we come down to the one phenomenon that appears to be constant: change.
Does that make it a "universal"? Meh. "Universal" is a creature of the mind when there "is" only change. And even that change is just an appearance in that what consciousness points at. If it ends, it ends. Universe done or universal done? You decide.

Malcolm wrote:
change is not a dharma, it is a characteristic. subtle point, but important.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 7:15 AM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
As Buddhists we all agree that suffering is pervasive and spending time contrasting sources of group pain, is pointless.  Except for the point which I mention now.  Every single culture worthy of the name has made a provision for, some have based their culture on, spiritual or religious living.  One reason Communism is not a worthy 'culture' is because they crushed all forms of that 'opiate of the people'.

That is their prime vice and why if the Reds are not the Primary Evil, they are, in recent history, one vicious group of demonic folk.

Malcolm wrote:
In fact, the reason they suppressed religion is because they decided is was a primary cause of suffering. The Communists were motivated in fact to remove suffering.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 5:03 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Hahah, the illustration is much older than that website and the info is accurate.

But here you go:



And:

http://slideplayer.com/slide/2799874/
Sure, but Babylonian:






Indrajala said:
http://ufodigest.com/ is not a valid source.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 4:32 AM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
Malcolm, I truly would like to know how you know who 'suffered most'?  I did not qualify, nor does the website, what sort of victims suffered.  Whether Buddhist or not, matters little.  Look at  the Cambodian doctor who was removed from treating the children in his care...

Is it body count, physical torture or mental duress over decades... The main point is that every communist govt. was the cause of vast suffering and we should never forget that.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and the American Govt. too also has been the author of great suffering, you know, for example the systematic genocide of American Indians, slavery, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 4:29 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sure, but Babylonian:





Indrajala said:
...but the geography of Mt. Meru is really originally an Indo-European idea. You find it throughout Indo-European civilizations.

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe so, maybe not.

Indrajala said:
Norse:



Zoroastrian:



Can't find anything scholarly looking so here's this:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 4:05 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
As a moral and aesthetic cosmolgy, not literally. For example, Edward Henning, probably the worlds leading expert on Kalacakra calculations right now, points out in his lengthy technical book, Kalacakra and the Tibetan Calendar, that the authors of the Kalacakra certainly did not take the Meru cosmology literally because the calculations it offers for calendar making won't work in a Meru Cosmology, though they do work fine in a terra-centric model, just like Ptolmeic astrology (upon which all Indian astrological systems are based).

Indrajala said:
Are you saying all Indian astrological systems are based on Ptolemy's system? If so, that's not true.

Malcolm wrote:
Pretty much, it is true. The language Indians use to describe these things are largely lifted from Greek. I am not suggesting that Indians did not have their own astrological and astronomical ideas prior to the Greeks, for they certainly did, but in terms of calendar making and so on...


Indrajala said:
The original Kalacakra authors studied a number of astronomical systems available to them, one of which was most certainly based on a Hellenistic model since it uses a tropical zodiac (in contrast to a sidereal zodiac which was the norm in India -- the Kalacakra sages were quite innovative by the standards of their day).  The Kalacakra also describes the corruption of siddhānta -s (astronomical treatises), which the commentary identifies as those of Brahma, Sauram, Yamanakam and Romakam. They took into consideration a number of models with clear foreign sources, so they had to somehow fit the mathematical astronomy they understood (much of Hellenistic in origin) with Meru cosmology.


Malcolm wrote:
But they didn't really fit it in. You should check out Henning's book, if you have it.


Indrajala said:
However, in earlier periods Buddhists unquestioningly believed in flat earth cosmology. The * Lokasthānābhidharma-śāstra 佛說立世阿毘曇論, for instance, details a flat earth cosmology of Mt. Meru and the four continents, explaining in literal physical terms how these two bodies (which are described as flat drum-shaped deva palaces) orbit above the disc-shaped world at an altitude half that of Mt. Meru, driven by a circuit of wind (vāyu-maṇḍalaka). Solar luminosity is said to be a result of karma of beings. In such a world, the flat earth is stationary while the sun, moon and stars revolve above, not actually dipping below the edge of the world. The apparent arc that the sun follows as it rises and sets as seen from earth is the sun following along its circular path above at an unchanging altitude.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it does indeed. But I have doubts that all Buddhists took this literally.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 4:00 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Indrajala said:
...but the geography of Mt. Meru is really originally an Indo-European idea. You find it throughout Indo-European civilizations.

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe so, maybe not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 3:58 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
heart said:
Elon Musk is suggesting that there is a very good chance our universe is a computer simulation. Donald Hoffman suggest that whatever we experience with our senses might have very little to do with what reality actually is. An other scientist, his name escapes me, suggest that the universe is a hologram.

I think the Mount Meru Cosmology might still have its day.

Malcolm wrote:
People make a lot of suggestion, but at the end of the day, the sun never has and never will circle the earth (outside of a computer model of course, which would actually show how untenable some naive Buddhists beliefs about this are.)

As I have stated before, and will do so again, Meru Cosmology is, in reality, a mythologized Indo-centric view of the planet, with Jambudvipa being what we today call India.

heart said:
Could be Malcolm, I don't know. But I really don't think Mount Meru been a visible mountain in India at any time in history.

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
If you have read the Mahābharata, it describes people going to the slopes of Meru to picnic. It is not like Buddhists had the sole claim to Meru cosmologies in India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 2:54 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
heart said:
Elon Musk is suggesting that there is a very good chance our universe is a computer simulation. Donald Hoffman suggest that whatever we experience with our senses might have very little to do with what reality actually is. An other scientist, his name escapes me, suggest that the universe is a hologram.

I think the Mount Meru Cosmology might still have its day.

Malcolm wrote:
People make a lot of suggestion, but at the end of the day, the sun never has and never will circle the earth (outside of a computer model of course, which would actually show how untenable some naive Buddhists beliefs about this are.)

As I have stated before, and will do so again, Meru Cosmology is, in reality, a mythologized Indo-centric view of the planet, with Jambudvipa being what we today call India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 2:49 AM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:


Nicholas Weeks said:
Pay more attention to the victims from the Dharma peoples of SE Asia, China, Cuba --- the Soviets are not the only example.

Malcolm wrote:
In all fairness, it must be pointed out that the people at whose hands Vietnamese Buddhists suffered the worst were the French, not the commies.

In this day and age, however, it is neoliberalism that is producing the most economic and social suffering. It may not be the same as the outright brutalism of the Stalinists and Maoists, but the ghettoization of the world proceeds apace in the name of corporate liberalism and the "free market."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
orgyen jigmed said:
Whoever is a Buddhist must believe in Buddhist cosmology.
According to Karl Popper the discrimination criterion that distinguishes a scientific theory from a non-scientific theory is the principle of falsifiability.  Strictly speaking Buddhist Cosmology has not been falsified, and thus it cannot be disproved.

Malcolm wrote:
Saying something is nonfalsifible is not the same thing as saying something cannot be falsified. For example, where is Mt. Meru on planet Earth?

If you claim that Meru is actually some structure out in space somewhere, where is it? Things that have been falsified in Meru Cosmology are such things as a geocentric orbit, a flat world and so on.

When even the HH Dalai Lama has rhetorically requested Vasubandhu to rewrite the third chapter of the Abhidharmakośa, and masters like Chogyal Namkhai Norbu consistently poke fun at Tibetans who insist on adhering to this outmoded traditional belief, I find it amazing that obtuse westerners insist that literal adherence to this cosmology is somehow something of great value.

If you really believe that the only thing preventing us all from being suffocated by the lethal fumes of the border hells is the ring of iron mountains around the four continents and Meru, honestly I feel a little sorry for you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 1:31 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
No, I don't think so.
Whoever is a Buddhist must believe in Buddhist cosmology.
-- Pg. 124, A Cascading Waterfall of Nectar.

Anders said:
ouch.

weenid said:
A corollary of not believing in Buddhist cosmology, specifically Mount Meru, must also mean we should believe in only 2 realms of existence (humans and animals) as opposed to the other 4 realms (hells, hungry ghosts, asuras, gods) which are cosmologically located below and above Mount Meru.

Malcolm wrote:
This does not follow at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 21st, 2016 at 1:04 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
I agree except Buddhists do not want to "die completely". They want to "break free from the cycle of rebirths" in order to help other beings with their suffering issues. But yes, most (or all?) religions start with the idea that something is wrong, either with us or with the world, that needs to be fixed. I would call this getting off on the wrong foot big-time.

Malcolm wrote:
So, since you think your "Buddhism as therapy" is really nonsensical, in your view there is nothing to fix, since nothing is actually wrong.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 20th, 2016 at 8:44 PM
Title: Re: Victims of Communism
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
That's a much more reasonable statement than Nicholas' implicit declaration that all communist regimes were (and are) always oppressive.

But the Soviet Union was (and is) Communist in name only.


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
Communism decsribes the end goal of Marxist Socialism, communists are those who believe in that goal.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 20th, 2016 at 9:31 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I think we really need to lift the unconstitutional ban on lawn darts...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 10:01 PM
Title: Re: Disillusioned by gradual teachings
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Among many other things, the function of a sadhana is to work with the experiential wisdom, after it has been stabilized by working with the experiential view. This is how the student "brings back" that recognition, in terms of sadhana practice.

Trangu Rinpoche's statement is consistent with the Sūtra yāna approach upheld in Kagyu and Gelug, but it is not the approach in Sakya and Nyingma.
It means that one has received direct introduction through the word empowerment and is experientially familiar with the example wisdom. So no, one has not realized emptiness, but neither is one pretending.

Dzogchen, of course, is quite different.

Astus said:
Example wisdom occurs at the wisdom empowerment, but according to Tsele Natsok (Empowerment, p 41) if it's not genuine insight "there is no way to recognize all forms of conceptual thinking to be the innate nature (dharmata), and thus one misses the point of the third empowerment. Without experiencing the nature of the third empowerment, one does not obtain the true fourth empowerment."

Also, according to Thrangu rinpoche (Creation and Completion, p 142-143), the sudden pointing out of the nature of the mind "as authentic as it is, is in some ways adulterated by conceptualization and therefore remains an experience rather than a realization. The problem with this is that, while the recognition is authentic as far as it goes, because it is incomplete and imperfect, it will at some point vanish. When it vanishes, the student does not know how to bring it back, because their initial recognition was experienced under the dramatic circumstances of receiving the pointing out from their guru." That is practically a criticism of the example wisdom. Therefore, he says, the solution to that in the Kagyu tradition is "to enable students, through their own exploration, to come to a decisive recognition of the mind's nature."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 8:55 PM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:


SpinyNorman said:
Eh?  Whose collective karma?

Malcolm wrote:
He means the karma-vipaka of all the people who were injured and slain. Of course, the shooter created his own karma.

SpinyNorman said:
Oh.  I was querying the notion of "collective" karma here, which could lead to blaming the victims.

Malcolm wrote:
When people engage in an action together, this is called collecrive karma, and if the karma is strong enough, the ripening can occur en masse.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 5:23 AM
Title: Re: Cinese demolition order - Larung Gar
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Funny how fanatics like you paint everything in two shades.

Jayarava said:
All these hurtful personal comments, Malcolm. Isn't making ad hominen attacks against the rules?.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 4:59 AM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
That is because it is not a whole. The French are French, the Dutch are Dutch, Spaniards are Spaniards., etc. Corporations benefit immensely from the EU arrangement— people, well, not so much.

Sherab Dorje said:
I agree, but it doesn't have to be like this. It was set up, from the beginning, with a neo-liberal agenda, not a socialist one.
Well, actually, not exactly.  It is socialist on lots of levels, maybe not so much economically, that is for sure.  Although there is a large degree of state planning in that sector too.

It is a type of capitalist federalism with a semi-planned economy.

Malcolm wrote:
England should leave. They will be better off for it, no matter what the neoliberal economists claim.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 4:43 AM
Title: Re: Cinese demolition order - Larung Gar
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So typical of you...judgmental, patronizing, colonialist, etc.

Jayarava said:
Let your hate flow Malcolm. The Dark Side is strong in you.

Malcolm wrote:
Funny how fanatics like you paint everything in two shades.

Jayarava said:
The place is run by a woman. The sangha there is the largest in the world and runs by consensus.
It cannot be run "by a woman" and "by consensus" - that is a logical contradiction. When the founder was alive he either made or approved all decisions. It sounds like his successors took over the reigns.

Malcolm wrote:
You really do need to learn how to read. But I will parse the two sentences for you, so as to make it more manageable for you:

1) The place is run by his niece.

2) The Sangha there, like all Sanghas, is run by consensus.


Jayarava said:
The real reason the place is under constant attack is that it attracts thousands of Chinese devotees.
In 2001, 2016 the govt required this massive slum to be made smaller - both times leaving the core intact and demolishing hovels. Hardly "constant attack". As I say, if it were happening in the UK we'd have clear this slum by now. And arrested those who resisted. There is precedent.

Malcolm wrote:
You simply have no idea what you are talking about. You have never been there, I hazard you have never even been to Tibet.

Jayarava said:
Perhaps the Chinese might consider using bulldozers to create sanitation rather than bulldozing down people's homes.
They might do. But why is the woman who runs the place, or the consensus, whichever it is, not doing so? They clearly have plenty of money.

Malcolm wrote:
Tibetans have very different ideas about what is important than you do, obviously. But since you react with typical English colonial sentiments, there is no point is discussing it with you further.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 4:00 AM
Title: Re: Cinese demolition order - Larung Gar
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So typical of you...judgmental, patronizing, colonialist, etc.

Jayarava said:
...snip...

If the people who run the place were more obviously looking after the people; allowing them a vote, providing equal rights for women; and providing sanitation, running water, and all the things we expect in a civilised country (if it wasn't a medieval slum in order words) then I'd be a lot more sympathetic. As it is, they do seem to need an intervention of some kind. And reducing their numbers to just 5000 seems quite restrained.

Malcolm wrote:
The place is run by a woman. The sangha there is the largest in the world and runs by consensus.

The real reason the place is under constant attack is that it attracts thousands of Chinese devotees.

Perhaps the Chinese might consider using bulldozers to create sanitation rather than bulldozing down people's homes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 3:38 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Norwegian said:
And if you want the AR-15 to be fully automatic, you can install a small piece of hardware that makes it an equal to the M-16, except costing the fraction of what an M-16 costs...

Malcolm wrote:
And people in the service only rarely use the full auto setting, and the civilian model only as one setting, semi-auto.

SpinyNorman said:
Most weapons on full auto are difficult to control and therefore very innaccurate.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. As someone pointed out above, it is primarily used for suppressive fire.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 3:38 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
amanitamusc said:
Really sad what happened to those 50 humans.It was collective karma.

SpinyNorman said:
Eh?  Whose collective karma?

Malcolm wrote:
He means the karma-vipaka of all the people who were injured and slain. Of course, the shooter created his own karma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 3:27 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Norwegian said:
And if you want the AR-15 to be fully automatic, you can install a small piece of hardware that makes it an equal to the M-16, except costing the fraction of what an M-16 costs...

Malcolm wrote:
And people in the service only rarely use the full auto setting, and the civilian model only as one setting, semi-auto.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 2:51 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
http://www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/

Unknown said:
The bullet from an AR-15 does an entirely different kind of violence to the human body. It’s relatively small, but it leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet. It has so much energy that it can disintegrate three inches of leg bone. “It would just turn it to dust,” says Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio. If it hits the liver, “the liver looks like a jello mold that’s been dropped on the floor.” And the exit wound can be a nasty, jagged hole the size of an orange.

These high-velocity bullets can damage flesh inches away from their path, either because they fragment or because they cause something called cavitation. When you trail your fingers through water, the water ripples and curls. When a high-velocity bullet pierces the body, human tissues ripples as well—but much more violently. The bullet from an AR-15 might miss the femoral artery in the leg, but cavitation may burst the artery anyway, causing death by blood loss. A swath of stretched and torn tissue around the wound may die. That’s why, says Rhee, a handgun wound might require only one surgery but an AR-15 bullet wound might require three to ten.

Then, multiply the damage from a single bullet by the ease of shooting an AR-15, which doesn’t kick. “The gun barely moves. You can sit there boom boom boom and reel off shots as fast as you can move your finger,” says Ernest Moore, a trauma surgeon at Denver Health and editor of the Journal of Trauma and Acute Surgery, which just published an issue dedicated to gun violence.

Malcolm wrote:
Any questions?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: Disillusioned by gradual teachings
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It is termed "taking the result as the path."

Astus said:
Does that mean one has actually realised emptiness? Or is it just pretending?

Malcolm wrote:
It means that one has received direct introduction through the word empowerment and is experientially familiar with the example wisdom. So no, one has not realized emptiness, but neither is one pretending.

Dzogchen, of course, is quite different.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 18th, 2016 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: Disillusioned by gradual teachings
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In a sadhana you start with the realization of emptiness at the beginning.

Astus said:
So anyone who even begins one is a realised being?

Malcolm wrote:
It is termed "taking the result as the path."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 10:35 PM
Title: Re: Mechanics of Enlightenment
Content:
Astus said:
Madhyamika analysis in meditation is very much there in TB, for instance in Mahamudra, even if they pretend it's something different.

Malcolm wrote:
While it is true that there is some preliminary analysis derived from Madhyamaka reasonings which may be found in Lamdre, Kagyu Mahāmudra and so on, the key distinction is that Madhyamaka offers no method of directly experiencing one's own dharmatā.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 10:07 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Sherab Dorje said:
Theoretically there is a shared culture:  European culture.

Malcolm wrote:
Nice theory. But it is just that, a theory.


Sherab Dorje said:
Now you are starting to get the gist of the problem.  Although their is an economic union, the states still consider themselves seperate economic and political entities and each one jockeys for a favorable position within the union, instead of looking at what would benefit the whole.

Malcolm wrote:
That is because it is not a whole. The French are French, the Dutch are Dutch, Spaniards are Spaniards., etc. Corporations benefit immensely from the EU arrangement— people, well, not so much.

Sherab Dorje said:
These are examples of how the currently conceived union is not a sustainable project.  If the union was based on the MUTUAL aid and not the individual profit of its member states, then it would work just fine.

Malcolm wrote:
It was set up, from the beginning, with a neo-liberal agenda, not a socialist one.

Sherab Dorje said:
Even Germany is not really a unified entity.  Consider how the west Germans screwed the east Germans on the currency exchange.  That is an as yet unresolved social/cultural, economic and political issue.

Malcolm wrote:
Nevertheless, Germany still benefits from the EU the most.

Sherab Dorje said:
Look at the north/south divide in the US: 150+ years and still bubbling away.

Malcolm wrote:
I have often thought that the US would be better off divided into four or more separate countries.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 9:31 PM
Title: Re: Britian's upcoming E.U referendum
Content:
Losal Samten said:
That does not sound like an intelligent thing to do. Separationists utopias only work in separation. They don't tell you that. Nations are interwoven into one big network of dependencies. Separateness is an ... illusion. *SCNR*.
A forced, artificial dependency created from the outside. A dependency within which Britain cannot negotiate with other nations on its own terms.

Kaccāni said:
That dependency will not end by leaving the Union. The "old frontiers" don't exist in globalized, highly automated money markets.
It could negotiate with the other nations within the E.U. on its own terms. But as I read your statements, the other E.U. nations are not considered those other nations. With the same argument, you can build a fence around your house and stack up weapons, because you cannot negotiate with the legislators, but are forced to vote.

There's still too much hatred between nations in Europe, instead of "thinking Europe". Let's hope this will not need another turning, as the in-between usually becomes violent.

Best wishes
Kc

Malcolm wrote:
The EU is a failed experiment that mainly benefits Germany. A currency union without a shared cultural union is bound to fail. The EU countries should all return to their own currencies. It is the best way they can protect their economies. Greece, Spain, Italy, etc. prove that the EU is not a sustainable project.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 9:19 PM
Title: Re: Disillusioned by gradual teachings
Content:
smcj said:
I believe, as do all my lamas, that you can attain the highest realisations through sadhana practice.

Astus said:
And what is it in a sadhana that is the cause of realisation?

Malcolm wrote:
In a sadhana you start with the realization of emptiness at the beginning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: On Buddhism and Nominalism
Content:
Wayfarer said:
I think this is as near as Buddhism gets to acknowledging universals.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhism accepts universals as abstractions from particulars. The universal "Buddha" comes from having experienced buddhas.

Buddhism in general is a form of pure nominalism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 11:16 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Unknown said:
But I don’t want an assault rifle. I don’t want to be back in Afghanistan either. I’ve shot thousands of rounds, and I’ve seen the effects of the bullets’ impact, and I want nothing of it. A friend of mine, himself an Army Special Forces officer with numerous combat deployments, agonized over the massacre in Orlando: “People who say they need an AR for hunting or home defense often don’t understand the weapon’s ballistics or overpenetration,” he said. “ARs cause horrific damage to humans; that’s why the military developed them.” He continued: “If you want to shoot an AR so bad, please feel free to join the fight against ISIS in the military.”

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/16/magazine/i-used-an-assault-rifle-in-the-army-i-dont-think-civilians-should-own-them.html?smid=nytcore-ipad-share&smprod=nytcore-ipad


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 11:07 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Virgo said:
Actually I would like to ban almost all guns.  If you are a hunter, or need one for work, etc., then you should have to apply for a permit,go through a proper background check, go through proper training to have it, and after a waiting period you should be allowed to posses it with restrictions and be able to show that you store it correctly.  Our gun culture is pathetic and asinine.

Kevin

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, as well as carry liability and accident insurance for it


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
tomamundsen said:
His view is that both heliocentric and disk-world views are delusion.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I don't think so.
Whoever is a Buddhist must believe in Buddhist cosmology.
-- Pg. 124, A Cascading Waterfall of Nectar.

tomamundsen said:
I was going off of a quote earlier in the thread:
There is no need to be concerned if some people think the world is round and moving, and others think the word is flat and still, since it is all delusion. It is not necessary to explain each detail of phenomena: just to understand that all phenomena, including all material judgements, can be recognized as manifestation, so there is no reality to each single explanation and no need to endlessly analyze conceptions.
That one seems to override beliefs, too.

Malcolm wrote:
Then it is an amazing waste of his time to devote an entire chapter to defending the validity of Buddhist cosmology as being more valid than modern physics since he repeatedly grounds Buddhist cosmology in what he takes to be Buddha's omniscience.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 5:16 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The ruling you cite refers to tasers, and not assault rifles.

tomamundsen said:
And yet it did make a statement on the intentions of the Second Amendment.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, SCOTUS expanded the meaning of the Second Amendment to include personal defense from people attempting to commit crimes.
As SCOTUS notes above in the Heller decision:
"the right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose".
Right, and there are already regulations. This is already not the case.
Regulations are state by state. We need broad federal regulations concerning what kinds of guns we allow to be marketed to civilians, for example, no assault rifles, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 5:12 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
tomamundsen said:
His view is that both heliocentric and disk-world views are delusion.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I don't think so.
Whoever is a Buddhist must believe in Buddhist cosmology.
-- Pg. 124, A Cascading Waterfall of Nectar.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 4:50 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Dante, I don't see you there...

dzogchungpa said:
I think he is the elephant...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 4:44 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:


tomamundsen said:
That is not what the recent Supreme Court rulings have shown. There are two clauses in the Second Amendment.

Malcolm wrote:
SCOTUS rulings can be overturned. But here are the precedents:
Long a controversial issue in American political, legal, and social discourse, the Second Amendment has been at the heart of several Supreme Court decisions.

In United States v. Cruikshank (1875), the Court ruled that "[t]he right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government."[85]

In United States v. Miller (1939), the Court ruled that the amendment "[protects arms that had a] reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia".[86]

In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment "codified a pre-existing right" and that it "protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home" but also stated that "the right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose".[87]

In McDonald v. Chicago (2010),[88] the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.[89]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights#Second_Amendment


The ruling you cite refers to tasers, and not assault rifles. As SCOTUS notes above in the Heller decision:
"the right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose".
It is my point of view that it is not constitutionally problematical at all to limit assault rifles for civilian use under this principle. Use of sporting weapons such as bolt-action or single-action rifles or breech-loaded shotguns for hunting and so on, I have no issue with. Possession of semiautomatic handguns such as Glocks, etc., should be reserved for police and military use, along with semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. You will note that in none of the decisions SCOTUS made is there any mention of the Second Amendment being validly used to defend oneself against the State. You do not have that right, and you never have.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 4:34 AM
Title: Re: Energy aspects
Content:
naljor said:
So their strengthening depends on working with astrology? Because I also notice similar dysfunctions in family and I have idea that astrology is something individual…


Malcolm wrote:
It depends on understanding your yearly reading, and applying the proper antidotes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 4:24 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:


tomamundsen said:
Sure. Although some drugs could potentially be used maliciously to kill large numbers of people. I'm not really trying to be rigorous and convince people, just stating my opinion.


Malcolm wrote:
Since this is a question of life and death, one should not wave around flaccid opinions. As a Dharma practitioner, you have an obligation to observe the principle of nonharming. The Buddha clearly identified trade in weapons as an incorrect, harmful livelihood.

I don't think you can rationally defend the way guns are deregulated in the US.

tomamundsen said:
I'm not planning on trading weapons myself, this is an issue of the rights of the citizens of our country. The rational defense is to cite the Bill of Rights or the http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/14-10078_aplc.pdf.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, the Bill of Rights:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The present gun policies of the US do not support a well-regulated Militia. They in fact do the opposite. What this statement in fact says is that the government should not infringe orderly, well-regulate Militias. Why? To defend the State. There is no language in this amendment that suggests the second amendment supports the idea of protecting oneself against the Gvt. It suggests the opposite in fact, that citizens use their arms to suppress threats to the State.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 4:19 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:


kirtu said:
So in all seriousness, we can approximate some level of fascist support in this country between 40%-71% of American adults using real data.

Kirt


Malcolm wrote:
Oh, the same can be said of Denmark, the Netherlands, etc. But I am sure, according to you, it is all really America's fault.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 4:11 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
orgyen jigmed said:
Blind persons designate various names to the body of a sturdy elephant, but the elephant itself does not become other than what it was

- Longchenpa

gad rgyangs said:
elephant perspectives 6.jpg

Malcolm wrote:
Dante, I don't see you there...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 3:55 AM
Title: Re: Energy aspects
Content:
naljor said:
I have a question …are different aspects of our being like lungta, wangtang etc. part of our energy system (channels, prana) or it is something what we inherited from our ancestors or merely the result of our actions…

Malcolm wrote:
These things are related to so-called elemental astrology.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 3:50 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
anjali said:
Just to stir the pot.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/06/14/oh-the-orlando-killer-didnt-use-an-ar15-rifle-n2177835


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, we know that. We should ban all semi-automatic rifles.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 3:39 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Have you ever examined or shot an AR-15?

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, as well as 30-06 bolt-action rifles, Remington .222 deer rifles, .22's, assorted shotguns, AK-47's, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 3:37 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Just in case anyone really doubts the AR-15 is a military grade weapon:

The AR-15 is a military and civilian rifle that has been produced in many different versions. The term AR-15 was chosen by Colt for the civilian models it produced after selling the rifle to the U.S. military as the M16 rifle, and many people and references use the term AR-15 exclusively for civilian models. This article discusses the original design for military users and its major variants, however they are labeled. AR-15 rifles are lightweight, gas-operated, magazine-fed, and air-cooled. They fire an intermediate cartridge, and are manufactured with extensive use of aluminum alloys and synthetic materials.

The AR-15 was first built in 1959 by ArmaLite as a small arms rifle for the United States armed forces. Because of financial problems, ArmaLite sold the design to Colt. After some modifications, the redesigned rifle was adopted as the M16 rifle. In 1963, Colt started selling the semi-automatic version of the rifle for civilians designated as the Colt SP1. Although the name AR-15 remains a Colt registered trademark, variants of the firearm are made, modified, and sold under various names by multiple manufacturers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 3:26 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:


Queequeg said:
yes.

does anyone disagree?

tomamundsen said:
I disagree. I'm not keen on the government taking away citizens' rights and further tipping the scales of power into their hands.

maybay said:
If you can't agree to your government having an exclusive right to violent means its hard to imagine what power you think they should wield. The whole point of limiting violent means is to secure citizens from each other, not from government. Unless you plan on threatening government with violence, which is ridiculous, your position is unjustifiable.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, Tom should read up on his Nozick. Many so-called libertarians fail to understand that the minimal state is precisely about ceding control of violence to a Gvt., in return for protection from enemies, foreign and domestic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 3:23 AM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:
Fortyeightvows said:
English speakers need to standardize their translations! Especially of terms, we could look to translators of the past for examples on how to do this, for example the five things you don't translate 五種不翻, etc..

Malcolm wrote:
It is too early to do that. In another 100 years or so, maybe.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Rakz said:
Gun control is not the answer. France has some very strict gun control but that didn't stop the Radical Islamic terrorists now did it?

Malcolm wrote:
This is not actually about terrorists. Don't be myopic. In 2013 11,000 people were murdered with guns, 3.5 per 100,000. But this is not the real number of deaths from firearms. In 2013, 33,169 people died as a direct result of firearms. This number excludes the number of people killed by the police. In 2010, gun violence cost $516 Million. Congress of course, in their infinite wisdom, has forbidden the CDC from conducting further research and analysis of gun violence since 2013.

Most mass shootings (four or more people in a public place) are committed by white males (67%).

The US has gun insanity. No one who considers themselves a Dharma person has any business owning a gun or encouraging others to own guns beyond specialized guns used solely for target competitions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 3:07 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
tomamundsen said:
I also don't smoke crack, but I don't think it should be illegal for people to purchase hardcore drugs.

Malcolm wrote:
This is definitely a false equivalence. You can't gun people down with a bag of crack.

tomamundsen said:
Sure. Although some drugs could potentially be used maliciously to kill large numbers of people. I'm not really trying to be rigorous and convince people, just stating my opinion.


Malcolm wrote:
Since this is a question of life and death, one should not wave around flaccid opinions. As a Dharma practitioner, you have an obligation to observe the principle of nonharming. The Buddha clearly identified trade in weapons as an incorrect, harmful livelihood.

I don't think you can rationally defend the way guns are deregulated in the US.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 3:04 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:


tomamundsen said:
I disagree. I'm not keen on the government taking away citizens' rights and further tipping the scales of power into their hands.

Malcolm wrote:
So you think that continuing to allow military grade weapons to be sold on the open market is desirable or even sane?

tomamundsen said:
As far as I know, military grade weapons (fully-automatic) are not sold on the open market. "Assault weapons" are not military grade, although some of them cosmetically resemble military grade weapons.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no difference between an AR-15 and an M-16 apart from one tiny part (the auto-sear). That part that is difference between the two guns (i.e. the difference between semi-automatic and fully automatic).

Leaving that aside, why would anyone need a semi-automatic rifle to go hunting?

Guns are useless for self-defense unless you carry them all the time. Where is that necessary outside of a war zone? Is the US a war zone?

The 2nd Amendment has to do with maintaining a militia, it has nothing to do with providing a means for citizens to defend themselves against the government. It became obsolete with the civil war.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
tomamundsen said:
I also don't smoke crack, but I don't think it should be illegal for people to purchase hardcore drugs.

Malcolm wrote:
This is definitely a false equivalence. You can't gun people down with a bag of crack.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 2:47 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Basically, it is time, long overdue, for us to seriously address the issue of gun control.

Queequeg said:
yes.

does anyone disagree?

tomamundsen said:
I disagree. I'm not keen on the government taking away citizens' rights and further tipping the scales of power into their hands.

Malcolm wrote:
So you think that continuing to allow military grade weapons to be sold on the open market is desirable or even sane?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 2:14 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Basically, it is time, long overdue, for us to seriously address the issue of gun control.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 1:43 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
Queequeg said:
Those terms have different meaning for us.

kirtu said:
No they do not.  You are deliberately trying to control and mangle language so as to restrict thought.  Just like much of American 1984 speak which flows so naturally from a people long since trained from birth to manipulate and obfuscate.

Queequeg said:
Ah, I wish I was so deliberate.

I'm explaining that in colloquial terms, this is what people mean. You can deny this, but right or wrong, this is how many Americans speak and think.

Trust me, I'm not the Tea Party Fascist you seem to think I am.

Malcolm wrote:
Kirt thinks all Americans, excluding himself of course, are Tea Party Fascists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 1:05 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
ISIS can actually provide scriptural justification for eveything they do. Islam has no centralized authority or pope to codify scriptural interpretation, so its basically a free-for all as far as picking and chosing ayahs and hadiths to justify your actions and attitudes. Because of this, it is basically not true to accuse ISIS of "perverting Islam" or of "not being muslims". They just have a particularly extreme interpretation of the scriptures.


Malcolm wrote:
Thus, there is no such thing as Radical Islam, only radicalized muslims.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 12:45 AM
Title: Re: Update on Orlando Shooting
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
Yes that is true of Muslim governments, but has nothing to do with your point that somehow "Islam" as some monolithic entity is to blame, especially since so many people within these countries are hugely dissatisfied with their governments. You keep saying "Islam" is a certain way, but there is no one thing called Islam at all...

Rakz said:
There is something called Radical Islam. Yes? No?

Malcolm wrote:
No, but there is such a thing as "radicalized muslims," however.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 17th, 2016 at 12:21 AM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
OK, thanks. While we're on the topic can you say something about why DJKR would say... when Vairotsana translated the word shunyata, he considered it from many angles and came up with tong pa–nyi, which expresses a lot of potential, the complete opposite of the word “empty".
as quoted above? How is it that 'stong pa nyid' expresses a lot of potential, if you agree with this statement?

Malcolm wrote:
Well, the word stong pa has several meanings in Tibetan. It's primary meaning is isolation ( dben pa ) or exhaustion ( zad par 'gyur ba ). It also can bear the meaning of ripen ( smin pa ) and benefit ( phan pa ); it's a kind of pulse, it is a phase of the moon; it also refers to a void space, for example, the emptiness of a pot that has nothing in it.

I would be very surprised if in fact Vairocana was the one who came up with the term stong pa nyid for śūnyatā. It is not impossible, but what is the real evidence for it?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 16th, 2016 at 11:35 PM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
For example, someone brought up the example of " stong pa nyid " as a translation for śūnyatā. Śūnyatā was originally translated into Tibetan as " ye 'byams." Very few people are aware of this, and so we run into rather strange translations of the term, not realizing it translated śūnyatā. So what to do? Do we translate it as "having always been without limitations?," "having always overflowed?," two quite literal translations of the term? Or do we use the very loose approximation "timeless infinity," as one translator suggests? Or do we translate it as emptiness, as we generally translate stong pa nyid?

dzogchungpa said:
This is interesting. How would you translate it?

Malcolm wrote:
Generally, in Dzogchen texts in man ngag sde, where it occasionally occurs, it should probably be rendered as something like "fundamentally/originally/primordially limitless" with a note that it is a gloss on the term śūnyatā.


Orna Almogi comments in Rong-zom-pa's Discourses on Buddhology, pg. 162, footnote 64:
Compare the term ye 'byams, which is an old designation for emptiness (Śūnyatā: stong pa nyid)
and is still used in the rNying-ma tradition in this sense. Although the term is often translated as
'primordial field,' such an understanding does not seem to be lexically attested, It is conceivable
that here, too, the component ye was initially employed in the sense of 'totality.' In this case, the
term ye 'byams would literally mean 'total/complete openness/expanse,' that is, 'emptiness.' As in
the case of the term ye shes, however, I have not been able to locate any Tibetan source to support
such an etymology, Note also the meaning of the Zhang-zhung word ye sangs, which according to
Martin 2004, S.v., is equivalent, among other things, to Tibetan stong, that is, 'empty,' 'void.'

dzogchungpa said:
Also, could you say more about the rationale for the original translation and subsequent revision?

Malcolm wrote:
Lost to history, perhaps it was overtly influenced by early translations of sūtras from Chinese into Tibetan. As it stands now the term is quite rare, though it makes an appearance in some sems sde texts and in the Treasury of the Dharmadhātu and Resting into the Nature of the Mind by Longchenpa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 16th, 2016 at 11:22 PM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:
Crazywisdom said:
I'm about to say something unpopular. Unless, a text is produced by a lama who transmits it, it is useful only for occasional cross reference.

Malcolm wrote:
There wont be many translations then.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 16th, 2016 at 11:04 PM
Title: Re: Keith Dowman's argument for his "interpretive free" translation style
Content:
krodha said:
How does everyone feel about this idea of "two quite distinct ways of translation"? I personally do not see the point of an "interpretive free method", as in the case of Dowman's efforts, this allegedly intentional "loose style" often seems to lose the meaning the original text intends to convey. Curious to hear what others think.

Malcolm wrote:
I can't speak to what other translators do or don't do. And of course more than one scholar has taken issue with Dowman's translations, the same applies to Tony Duff, etc. But that is not very important. Why? We would be very foolish to think that after translating Dharma texts into English for a generation that we are in any position to stake out definite positions about how things could or should be translated into English.

For example, someone brought up the example of " stong pa nyid " as a translation for śūnyatā. Śūnyatā was originally translated into Tibetan as " ye 'byams." Very few people are aware of this, and so we run into rather strange translations of the term, not realizing it translated śūnyatā. So what to do? Do we translate it as "having always been without limitations?," "having always overflowed?," two quite literal translations of the term? Or do we use the very loose approximation "timeless infinity," as one translator suggests? Or do we translate it as emptiness, as we generally translate stong pa nyid?

Someone else mentioned committee translations. In my opinion, the quality of a translations depends on the committee, who did the original, who edited it, and so on. The failure of translation committees is the desire to create a brand, like different models of cars. Different translations from the same committee exhibit different levels of accuracy and quality depending on the composition of the actual team. Even among Tibetans, those who are educated in Shedras may not actually have the knowledge of Dzogchen for example, to accurately give information when questioned about the usage of term such as la zla ba.

The quality of a translation also depends very much on the ability of a person to express themselves well in their native tongue. Poor writers make poor translations. There are other factors: are you a native English speaker? Even the best of the non-native translators, not just Guenther, quite often make choices which are quite frankly nonidiomatic English and are strange in our language. Do you speak British, American, Canadian, Australian or Indian English? One's choice of words, one's compositional style, and so on, will all very much be influenced by the country and education one has.

Than there are other factors: people who have never translated anything other than Dharma texts tend to have a very brittle and dry style, because Dharma texts from the traditions of Madhyamaka and so on are exactly that, dry and brittle taxonomies which give very little indication of or possibility for process.

For myself personally, studying Tibetan Medicine opened up a whole new way of looking at Tibetan to which I previously had been blind. Biographies too demand a somewhat more personable style. In general, one modern fault of we Tibetan translators is a lack of diversity in our reading. I know of professors, much hailed for their translation of philosophical texts, who cannot handle that most simplistic of formats, the sadhana, with any skill at all. I have watched famous translators badly botch explanations given by Lamas because the translator had no knowledge of Tibetan Medicine and was therefore unable to accurately translate some concepts from a Dzogchen text, and amazingly just make up some bullshit on the spot, apparently to cover up their own ignorance. That said, I also have sympathy for oral translators, it is no easy job. Oral translators usually are not such good text translators, and the reverse is also true. There are very few translators who excel at both. As an oral translator, for example, I suck.

Then there is the issue of "helping" the text. It is the habit of some translators to embed their understanding in their translations by fleshing them out, sometimes by as much as 40 percent, with extraneous material either derived from commentaries or from information provided in the course of hearing a text being taught. Other translations are leaner, more austere, tending to stick more closely to the text, depending on the reader's familiarity with the subject. Is this good, bad? How can we say it is either, when Tibetan translators themselves have often embellished?

If anything, translators of texts should find themselves humbled by the process. There is little glory in it. The translation process is driven by a passion for discovering the unknown, the unread. Principally, Dharma translation should be driven by the motivation to deepen one's own practice, and to aid others. It can be especially disheartening in the beginning because you are mostly wrong all the time; but of course in the end, when one can share texts that have never been seen in English, it is deeply rewarding because of the joy it brings to oneself through deeper understanding and the joy it brings to others because it is like giving the blind eyes to see, however imperfect those eyes may be and still in need of correction.

While I certainly admit to having my preferences in both translation terms as well as translators, in general we should try to be supportive of the efforts of translators and not give them too hard a time. This does not mean that people cannot discuss this or that term and its suitability. Most people do not realize that a majority of texts translated from Sanskrit to Tibetan, especially the more important texts, underwent multiple revisions, a process that began in the mid-8th century and ended only in the 14th century. There exist dictionaries of archaic terms and their modern (i.e. post-Ralpacan) equivalents. Translators themselves should do their own research and not depend so heavily on translations made two, three, four, and five decades ago. Translators must question why for example we are translating ye shes as "primordial wisdom," rig pa as awareness, etc. We must not fall into formulaic translations, because in the end we will wind up with the very clumsy, basically unreadable translations done by Tibetans after the 14th century.

I would only caution those translators who are much given to criticizing the work of others that such criticism merely opens the door for rebuttal and criticism in turn, and this helps no one in the end. People may wish to ignore this fact, but translation is a crowd-sourced process. The more eyes there are on our translations, the more accurate they can in time become.

I am sharing these thoughts with you because the question arose and because I have spent the last 24 years of my life obeying my guru, Ngakpa Yeshe Dorje's command that I become a translator. In that time I have translated many texts, made even more mistakes, and have had my own pride and arrogance knocked down again and again (as hard as it may seem for some of you to believe) by the process of translation.

I will share with you one of my guiding principles in translating Dzogchen texts into English, since that is really what this thread is about. Rongzom states that while the words of the Great Perfection are simple, their meaning is vast and deep like space. On the other hand, the words of the lower vehicles are are very precise and detailed in their complexity, but their meaning is rough, just like a pile of dust. Therefore, as much as possible, when translating the texts of the Great Perfection, I try to keep my English as simple and plain as I can.

However there are some other principles that I also observe summarized here: http://www3.dbu.edu/mitchell/poundtra.htm, and based on the work of Ezra Pound.

1) A true translation must reject "Wardour-Street English," the pseudo-archaic language of Victorian translators associated with William Morris and F. W. Newman.  Pound was willing to experiment with a variety of poetic style and diction.  He made free-verse translations of classical works acceptable.

2) Each translation is a kind of criticism of the original.  It stresses the strengths of the original, but it also shows what its limits may have been.

3) No translation has to reproduce all aspects of the original.  It can choose to concentrate on only some aspects.  It can leave part of the original out.  It may even add to it or rearrange it in order to accomplish the translator's purpose.

4) Modern topical allusions may be used to bring across the emotions associated with the original's allusions.

5) Translations should be new poems in their own right.  They should be artistically well-done. (while this refers to poems, it applies to everything)

6) History is a product of the present.  All knowledge of the past is experienced in our current reception and reading of it.  In this sense, all translation is both a continuity and a re-reading of past texts and authors.

One may find much food for thought on this Wiki page too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation

Finally, another point that many people don't understand. Poetry and Prosody (Kavya) are distinct from the style of Karika literature of Indo-Tibetan religio-philosophical texts. Texts from the Samcayagathas to the Precious Treasury of the Dharmadhātu are not poetry, nor are they intended as poetry. The so called "verse" portions of the tantras emulate the gathas of sūtra, and so too are not poetry, but are in metered verses to aid memorization. While such compositions can be "poetic," it must be firmly understood they are not poems in our sense of the word. True poetry in the Indo-Tibetan traditions is a very specific, very highly stylized form which is generally confined to the so called "verses of praise" and the dedications found in the beginning and end of texts, ranging from short texts to multivolume treatises, and whose complexity and depth depends very much on the education of the author. Real poetry in Tibetan can be pretty boring reading, depending on deep familiarity with the synonyms which may be found in the compendium Amarakośa and its commentary. For example, a common synonym for the sun is "The one who is drawn by seven horses."

So, in the end, it is better to be light-handed in our criticisms of translators and their translations unless they are engaged in gross fabrications or outright plagiarism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 14th, 2016 at 8:19 PM
Title: Re: Disillusioned by gradual teachings
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen Community, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu is what you may be looking for.

In Dzogchen, the so called direct teachings are given up front, then you find your own level based on what you understand. Thus, it is the opposite of what you have been led to beleive.

Temicco said:
Yeah, just seems kind of hard (in my very limited experience, granted) to find groups that are like this. The only group in my city that offers ngondro more or less straight away is Rigpa, which has its controversies. Nalandabodhi requires multiple years of study before even starting ngondro, for instance.

Nobody teaches Chan like that anymore. But I know it's kind of a petty concern.

Dan74 said:
I think this is not so. There are some incredible Chan teachers and if they teach more gradual approaches, it is because they see that this is what their students need.

In fact, believing you are too good to waste time on gradual teachings probably means the best practice for you is 100000 prostrations to knock these spiritual materialistic ideas out of your head. But I may be wrong. That's why you need a teacher who can get to know you and have the wisdom to advice appropriately.

_/|\_

Temicco said:
Yeah, I definitely do. And the prostrations are likely needed I actually hope to start ngondro within the next few months; still kind of "shopping around" to see what kind of options I have.

Do you have any particular people in mind when you mention "incredible Chan teachers"?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 14th, 2016 at 10:01 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in three incalculable eons an improbable venture.
Content:
Astus said:
It all depends on how one counts those aeons.

Malcolm wrote:
Cooking the Dharma books....


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 7:32 PM
Title: Re: Shantideva, Way of the Bodhisattva -- Stay away from "childish beings" or help them?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It means avoid the company of fools.

prsvrnc said:
I am reading chapter 8 of Shantideva's, "the Way of the Bodhisattva" on Meditative Concentration along with a commentary.  Many of the verses in this chapter talk about how you should remain in solitude and list many reasons for why it is not worth one's time to remain in the presence of most beings.  I realize this might be in context of developing meditative concentration, but the way it's written makes it sound like this is advice for any scenario.

Verses 15 and 16:

"Therefore flee the company of childish people.
Greet them, when you meet, with smiles
That keep on terms of common courtesy,
Without inviting intimate relations.

Like bees that get their honey from the flowers,
Take only what will serve the practice of the Dharma.
Treat everyone like new acquaintances
And keep yourself from close familiarity."

^^^ How do you all interpret this?  I realize it doesn't have to be contradictory, but I'm curious how this squares with the bodhisattva commitment to help all beings.  In my own mind, i have some friends that are difficult (for example), bUt I see my remaining friends with them as something that could be an aid to them in some way.  How do you guys interpret this?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 7:24 PM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Astus,

The point is that what you are describing is an intellectual view that is meaningless outside of the context of a teacher student relationship, where such a view is integrated meaningfully with practice. There is no liberation through words, my friend, as your final citation points out.

It is funny to watch ordinary people like us confidentally opine on awakening, it is like watching children playing at being royalty.
This is all very nice, Astus, but what you are describing is just an intellectual view thst wont help one deal with affluctions at all.

Astus said:
What view is not intellectual? The teachings are all made of words. How one uses them decides if they are of any help. Even Bodhidharma http://ctzen.org/sunnyvale/enBodhiDharmaSutraWithAnnotation.htm the direct entrance as "to awaken to the Truth through the doctrine". And direct entrance is where the teaching of afflictions are bodhi belongs to:

"In the Ultimate Vehicle, we neither transform our afflictions nor extinguish them; our mind is originally pure and lucid. This mind is inherent in everyone; we do not need to seek it externally. This is the Chan School’s principle of “affliction is bodhi; birth and death (samsara) is nirvana.”"
( http://ctzen.org/sunnyvale/enUS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=219&Itemid=59 )

As for teaching it, here's a short story.

For a long time Yaoshan did not enter the hall to speak. 
The temple director said to him, “The monks have been waiting for a long time for the master to give them some instruction.”
Yaoshan said, “Ring the bell!”
The monks assembled in the hall. 
Yaoshan then got down from the Dharma seat and went back to the abbot’s quarters.
The temple director followed him and said, “Master, since you consented to speak to the monks, why didn’t you say anything?”
Yaoshan said, “Sutras have sutra teachers. Shastras have shastra teachers. Why are you unhappy with me?”
(Zen's Chinese Heritage, p 124-125)

So, what is there to do with views and words?

"The more words and thoughts the more you will go astray.
Stop speaking, stop thinking and there is nothing you cannot understand."
( http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/zen/fm/fm.htm )


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 6:41 PM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Saoshun said:
This is all very nice, Astus, but what you are describing is just an intellectual view thst wont help one deal with affluctions at all.
This is actually fetter too.

Malcolm wrote:
Its fetters all,thevway down.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 10:24 AM
Title: Re: Disillusioned by gradual teachings
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In Dzogchen, the so called direct teachings are given up front, then you find your own level based on what you understand. Thus, it is the opposite of what you have been led to beleive.

Boomerang said:
I'm not sure if I understand the question.

Gradual paths are available for those who have the karma to excel at them. Non-gradual paths, for those who have that karma. What's the problem?

Temicco said:
It basically just feels that the only way you can get to non-gradual teachings to see if they even work for you is through a long process of, more or less, jumping through gradual, path-based hoops. This process will either a) be kind of a waste of time and potentially delusive, or b) really helpful. And if TB considers most people to be lamrimpas, then I get why administering such a path for the 95% of people who will benefit from it is the best idea. It's just frustrating that the more direct teachings are kind of locked away at the top of the vehicles, as opposed to being more immediately accessible.

tomamundsen said:
I think there is a difference between how things are presented to the public and then how things actually work out once you build a relationship with a teacher. If you have the capacity for the "higher" practices, I don't think the teacher will be reluctant to give them to you. Things are presented more formally to public audiences, but working with a teacher eventually becomes a really personal thing and you will get whichever practices are best suited for you. I guess I shouldn't speak generally, I doubt everyone's experience is that way. But I do think that if you create a genuine connection with a teacher, you won't be disappointed and feel like things are being held back from you. It could be the case that you are instructed to engage in more gradual teachings, but if you trust in your teacher fully, there won't be an issue.

Temicco said:
That's a good point. But then, part of my concern is related to the (apparent) fixedness of the lamrimpa/cigcarba categories in Tibetan thinking -- Chan doesn't make such a big deal out of karmically determined capacity, and mainly discusses it as a point of sectarianism (in that Chan doesn't cater to people of lower capacities). In Chan you never hear, "won't realize it because of your karma", you hear, "you won't realize it because you persist in these bad habits, even though you don't have to". A subtle difference, but a big one. Would getting pinned as someone of lower capacity by one Tibetan teacher follow me throughout my studies like some kind of past failed class?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 9:41 AM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This is all very nice, Astus, but what you are describing is just an intellectual view thst wont help one deal with affluctions at all.
Then, please explain the difference between mere indifference (to thoughts) and liberation (from attachment to thoughts).

Astus said:
Indifference is a concept where one deems something uninteresting or irrelevant. Liberation means not abiding in any concept, neither grasping nor rejecting.
Yes, so, what does it look like to become free of attachment to thoughts? How does one actually do that?
If you think that none of the passages already quoted answer that, then here is the instruction for zazen:

"When you are aware that all characteristics are void, it is true mind, http://buddhiststudies.berkeley.edu/people/faculty/sharf/documents/Sharf_Mindfulness%20and%20Mindlessness.pdf. If a thought arises, be aware of it; once you are aware of it, it will disappear. The excellent gate of practice lies here alone."
(Zongmi on Chan, p 88; same in http://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/practice/zazen/howto/index.html and http://zen.rinnou.net/zazen/sitting.html )
Again, this is a prescription, not a description. How does one purify the fundamental mind? (I assume he means here the ālayavijñāna).
The fundamental mind (本心) is one's original buddha nature. To purify it means to see it, to recognise that it is originally pure.
What does "realizing emptiness" actually mean and how does one do it. Descriptions please, no more prescriptions, we have had enough of these already.
If Zen and prajnaparamita do not match your criteria for descriptions, there are all sorts of other manuals.
What awakening are you trying to describe? How do you do it?
I have described awakening as seeing the insubstantiality of afflictions. Regarding methods, there are numerous.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 3:43 AM
Title: Re: Disillusioned by gradual teachings
Content:
Sherab Dorje said:
So, if TB is not your cup of (butter) tea, why don't you quit whining and just go and continue practicing Chan?

Temicco said:
Nobody teaches Chan like that anymore. But I know it's kind of a petty concern.

Malcolm wrote:
If you know how Chan was taught, then why do you need a teacher?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 3:22 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
so you are saying that one only acquires the problem by accepting Buddhadharma in the first place, and only Buddhists are subject to "rebirth in samsara"? Since you say "taking a cure for a disease one does not have" you imply that non-Buddhists are not subject to "rebirth in samsara".

Malcolm wrote:
You can look at it like that, if you choose.

From the perspective of Buddhadharma, on the other hand, you are subject to rebirth whether you choose to accept this fact or not. And guess what, that is not a falsifiable statement. But rebirth is the fundamental problem Buddha provided a solution for. It is up to you to accept this or not, but no one can prove rebirth to you. It can easily be shown however that whatever "therapies" the Buddha devised, they were devised to cure this problem, i.e., rebirth.

gad rgyangs said:
there is quite a bit of anecdotal evidence to support some kind of rebirth, although it is not at all clear in what way the other lifetimes could be considered "yours". There could simply be bleed-over of memories, perhaps even transmitted through genetics or some other mechanism. The point is we simply do not know and I do not believe there is anything to be gained by picking out unknowns at random and declaring them "unnegotiable". There is plenty that can be investigated within what we actually experience.

Malcolm wrote:
The point is that there is no reason to be delicate about what rebirth is at all. It is a well described phenomena, and is universally understood in every Dharma path including Dzogchen.

Pussyfooting around it is a waste of time.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 3:12 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
so you see Buddhadharma as a creed rather than as a methodology?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhadharma sets out a very specific set of problems, and proposes solutions to the problems it identifies. If one does not accept the problem Buddhadharma identifies (rebirth in samsara), there is no point is following its methodology. It would be like taking a cure for a disease one does not have, such a cure in fact can only cause one to become ill.

gad rgyangs said:
so you are saying that one only acquires the problem by accepting Buddhadharma in the first place, and only Buddhists are subject to "rebirth in samsara"? Since you say "taking a cure for a disease one does not have" you imply that non-Buddhists are not subject to "rebirth in samsara".

Malcolm wrote:
You can look at it like that, if you choose.

From the perspective of Buddhadharma, on the other hand, you are subject to rebirth whether you choose to accept this fact or not. And guess what, that is not a falsifiable statement. But rebirth is the fundamental problem Buddha provided a solution for. It is up to you to accept this or not, but no one can prove rebirth to you. It can easily be shown however that whatever "therapies" the Buddha devised, they were devised to cure this problem, i.e., rebirth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 3:01 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Unfortunately, in Buddhadharma, the karma hypothesis, whether falsifiable or not according to some imagined objective standard, is nonnegotiable, as is rebirth.

gad rgyangs said:
so you see Buddhadharma as a creed rather than as a methodology?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhadharma sets out a very specific set of problems, and proposes solutions to the problems it identifies. If one does not accept the problem Buddhadharma identifies (rebirth in samsara), there is no point is following its methodology. It would be like taking a cure for a disease one does not have, such a cure in fact can only cause one to become ill.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
there doesn't seem to be any evidence either way, therefore it is simply an unsupported hypothesis.

Malcolm wrote:
If you are looking for empirical validation of anything in Buddhadharma, well, I advise you to return to your "therapeutic Buddhism," because you will certainly be disappointed.

gad rgyangs said:
the idea of Buddha as doctor is nothing new, so im not sure why you keep using the term sarcastically. I would say that we can actually apply the idea that we cause much of our suffering through attachment and see that it is true based on our own experience. the karma hypothesis, at least as it is presented in traditional Buddhism, is untestable.

Malcolm wrote:
Great, so you are a Secular Buddhist, hurrah!

All religions propose solutions to suffering, so they are all "theapies" for someone. They all provide solutions to suffering, and their proponents claim that in their own experience their suffering is lessened and even eliminated.

Why pick Buddhadharma above say Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, etc?

Unfortunately, in Buddhadharma, the karma hypothesis, whether falsifiable or not according to some imagined objective standard, is nonnegotiable, as is rebirth.

Buddha was indeed a great physician (not a therapist, massage or otherwise), who diagnosed the disease, afflictive rebirth, and prescribes its cure, Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 2:43 AM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So the only difference between  buddhas and sentient beings is attachment to thoughts?

Astus said:
What more needed?

Malcolm wrote:
Then, please explain the difference between mere indifference (to thoughts) and liberation (from attachment to thoughts).



Astus said:
This gets back to the question you have not answered, how does the mind become free from afflictions, since this is necessary preconditions for what you are describing as nonconceptuality (nirvikalpa)?
Afflictions come from attachment to thoughts. Once there is no attachment, there are no afflictions either. The quoted line from the Platform Sutra continues as follows:

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, so, what does it look like to become free of attachment to thoughts? How does one actually do that?

Astus said:
"[The mind’s] functioning pervades all locations, yet it is not attached to all the locations. Just purify the fundamental mind, causing the six consciousnesses to emerge from the six [sensory] gates, [causing one to be] without defilement or heterogeneity within the six types of sensory data (literally, the “six dusts”), autonomous in the coming and going [of mental phenomena], one’s penetrating function without stagnation."
(Platform Sutra, ch 2, BDK p 33)

Malcolm wrote:
Again, this is a prescription, not a description. How does one purify the fundamental mind? (I assume he means here the ālayavijñāna).

Astus said:
Nagarjuna writes as well:

"Liberation follows from the exhaustion of action and affliction.
Action and affliction are due to thought,
And thoughts proliferate due to mental construction.
They are brought to an end by emptiness."
(MMK 18.5, tr from Ornament of Reason)

Malcolm wrote:
Again, this does not explain how, it merely explains what.



Astus said:
Affliction and clinging comes from not seeing emptiness. Since names are empty, there is no problem, when it is realised.

Malcolm wrote:
A lot of people here "see emptiness", we discuss it all day long, are expert in many arguments about emptiness. But for all this talk of emptiness, I don't really see anyone waking up. What does "realizing emptiness" actually mean and how does one do it.

Descriptions please, no more prescriptions, we have had enough of these already.


Astus said:
I see, so there is apprehension of characteristics, but you don't "grasp" them. Well, many people also understand this and practice this way, and yet, they still are not awakened. I still think you have failed to escape intellectualism here.
What awakening is it you miss?

Malcolm wrote:
What awakening are you trying to describe? How do you do it?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 2:36 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
what is the evidence that this true?

Malcolm wrote:
What is the evidence it isn't?

gad rgyangs said:
there doesn't seem to be any evidence either way, therefore it is simply an unsupported hypothesis.

Malcolm wrote:
If you are looking for empirical validation of anything in Buddhadharma, well, I advise you to return to your "therapeutic Buddhism," because you will certainly be disappointed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 2:10 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
Vasana said:
Until all of ones thoughts are self arisen and self liberated , then they entail the generation of karma.

gad rgyangs said:
what is the evidence that this true?

Malcolm wrote:
What is the evidence it isn't?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 2:10 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
sorry to hear you are bored by buddhism and the quest to understand the nature of reality. maybe its just a phase.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, Buddhism is a crashing bore. Dharma, well, that is another matter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 1:19 AM
Title: Re: Illusion
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
how do you justify saying that sense appearances are an aspect of our clarity, but our apprehensions are not?

Malcolm wrote:
Why justify anything? —— all it does is produce discursive responses that never end. And then, bored silly at the endless questions....well, time to change the channel.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 12th, 2016 at 12:18 AM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Many people continue to grasp even though they know characteristics are concepts. So, there is still something missing. Your presentation is completely intellectual.

Astus said:
Grasping is always at characteristics. If one does not conceive characteristics, how can there be grasping?

Malcolm wrote:
How does one perceive without perceiving characteristics?

Astus said:
What many people may know and still continue to grasp at objects are words, that is, grasping at characteristics, imagining that emptiness is another thing.

Malcolm wrote:
There are many people who do not have this fault, thinking that emptiness is one thing, characteristics are another, and yet, they have not woken up.


Astus said:
Enlightenment is naturally true and is fundamentally without names. It is only that people of the world do not recognize it and remain deluded within their ratiocination.

Malcolm wrote:
How can something without characteristics be recognized?


Astus said:
So how do you do that (realize and manifest them)?
So what is the different between a buddha and the unconscious devas. Both have stopped thinking.
It is not thoughtlessness, but not grasping at thoughts.

Malcolm wrote:
So the only difference between  buddhas and sentient beings is attachment to thoughts?

Astus said:
"What is nonthought? If in seeing all the dharmas, the mind is not defiled or attached, this is nonthought.

Malcolm wrote:
This gets back to the question you have not answered, how does the mind become free from afflictions, since this is necessary preconditions for what you are describing as nonconceptuality (nirvikalpa)?


Astus said:
I see, so there is no ultimate.
Is there such a thing as "pure absence"?

Malcolm wrote:
How could there be?

Astus said:
So there are names.
Even names are without characteristics.

Malcolm wrote:
That does not settle anything, since as you admit above affliction and clinging is the problem, not characteristics.

Astus said:
Thinking that there is no essence is grasping at an essence. To recognise in one's present experience that there is nothing that can be grasped is what is meant by seeing characteristics to be fictional.

Malcolm wrote:
[/quote]

I see, so there is apprehension of characteristics, but you don't "grasp" them. Well, many people also understand this and practice this way, and yet, they still are not awakened. I still think you have failed to escape intellectualism here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 11th, 2016 at 9:29 PM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:


Astus said:
Marks/characteristics are concepts. As long as one believes those concepts to be substantial, there is clinging. Once they are seen as merely conceptual, there is nothing left to grasp.

Malcolm wrote:
Many people continue to grasp even though they know characteristics are concepts. So, there is still something missing. Your presentation is completely intellectual.


Astus said:
It answers it by showing how while we all have the qualities of a buddha, it doesn't mean we realise and manifest them.

Malcolm wrote:
So how do you do that (realize and manifest them)?

Astus said:
...They do not understand that if they cease their thoughts and end their thinking, the Buddha will automatically be present."

Malcolm wrote:
So what is the different between a buddha and the unconscious devas. Both have stopped thinking.


Astus said:
The ultimate is seeing the conventional as conventional.

Malcolm wrote:
I see, so there is no ultimate.



Astus said:
We use words (i.e. names) here all the time, don't we?

Malcolm wrote:
So there are names.


Astus said:
There is ignorance about and awakening to phenomena as inessential.

Malcolm wrote:
But this is still just intellectualism. Many people here understand that phenomena are inessential, and yet, they are not awake. There is still something missing from your presentation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 11th, 2016 at 8:19 PM
Title: Re: Disillusioned by gradual teachings
Content:
Temicco said:
I study Chan, which is highly critical of gradual path- and practice-based approaches. Although the following passage is Dzogchen, it quite nicely sums up the Chan position:

Vairocana said:
Innocents enter a structured path of dharma practice
with no chance to realize that it leads nowhere:
how can reality ever be found by seeking?
...
The nature of the miraculous ambrosia
does not depend upon any technique.

Temicco said:
I've been somewhat skeptical of "practices" of liberation since I first got into Chan (how could liberation be confined to the enactment of a practice or produced through some method? It just doesn't make sense), but the fact that multiple groups within Buddhism ultimately agree just makes me feel kind of annoyed. If Dzogchen's where it's at (now that pure Chan is dead), why would I pay a Tibetan Buddhist centre to give me some raft to delude myself with? I'd really like to get to things directly, and it feels like that's an ideal that's impossible in reality. That my attachment to non-gradual teachings is something for me to investigate is definitely true, but doesn't really hit my main concern. Why am I expected and encouraged to tarry in samsara when I'm already interested in the dharma and want the heart of the matter?

Malcolm wrote:
The reason why you are in samsara is because you are afflicted. Most people have to gradually penetrate their afflictions. When they are free from being controlled by afflictions, they are liberated.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 11th, 2016 at 8:10 PM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
How does one relinquish marks that do not exist? And if it is the case that one must relinquish marks, is it not also the case that one must relinquish the afflictions that cause clinging to marks?

Astus said:
The part I quoted from PP8000 (22.2) asks the same question and answers in the following way:

Malcolm wrote:
This is prescriptive and not descriptive.


Astus said:
Then everyone is a great master of Chan.
All beings have the buddha-nature.

Malcolm wrote:
This is is not an answer.


Astus said:
But, as http://www.ymba.org/books/entering-tao-sudden-enlightenment/tsung-ching-record:

"While they are eating, they are not really eating due to too much thinking. While they are sleeping, they are not really sleeping due to too much mental agitation. Therefore, they do not work in the same way I do."

Malcolm wrote:
But why?

Astus said:
The ultimate is just a pure absence. How can that be all the conventional is?
The conventional is just the conventional. Its substance is absent.

Malcolm wrote:
So there is something other than the ultimate?

Astus said:
In Linji's words (tr Sasaki, p 19):

"All the dharmas of this world and of the worlds beyond are without self-nature. Also, they are without produced nature. They are just empty names, and these names are also empty. All you are doing is taking these worthless names to be real. That’s all wrong!"

And in http://sutrasmantras.info/sutra13.html:

Malcolm wrote:
So there are names? Or not.

Astus said:
"Just as self is only a name, so too Buddha is only a name. Realizing the emptiness of a name is bodhi. One should seek bodhi without using names. The appearance of bodhi is free from words. Why? Because words and bodhi are both empty."

Malcolm wrote:
[/quote]

So your basic conclusion is that there is no awakening, and therefore, the whole thing is a farce.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 11th, 2016 at 1:27 AM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No idea what your stance on ultimate truth is.

AlexMcLeod said:
See signature. Basically, it is irrelevant to most discussions, Dharmic or  otherwise. This is simply because of the level of attainment of most everyone. My belief is that it is a form of nihilism in most cases and subjects.

That is why I am constantly arguing against its use in discussions.

Malcolm wrote:
There is no problem discussing ultimate truth, one needs to have a conventional understanding of it in order to realize it. Per Nāgārjuna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 11th, 2016 at 1:10 AM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:


AlexMcLeod said:
Either that or he's had some mystical experience that has placed him in agreement with my stance on ultimate truth...but I doubt it.

Malcolm wrote:
No idea what your stance on ultimate truth is.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 11th, 2016 at 1:08 AM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I also know there are no characteristics. So you are still leaving something out.

Astus said:
If it's not the difference between thinking and doing, then please tell what you mean.

Malcolm wrote:
How does one relinquish marks that do not exist? And if it is the case that one must relinquish marks, is it not also the case that one must relinquish the afflictions that cause clinging to marks?

Astus said:
That's why people think Chan is nihilistic.
It is quite the opposite, very much life affirming and down to earth. The only true Chan practices are eat, shit, sleep.

Malcolm wrote:
Then everyone is a great master of Chan.

Astus said:
Wasn't it just recently that in some thread you were emphasising how everything is illusion? I mean, that must sound nihilistic as well then.

Malcolm wrote:
The ultimate is just a pure absence. How can that be all the conventional is?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 11th, 2016 at 12:40 AM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I see phenomena as insubstantial. Am I awakened? (Answer: no) I recognize all phenomena as equal. Am I alwakened? (Answer: no) So there must be something else you are leaving out.

Astus said:
What would that be?

"The mark of self is no mark. The mark of others, the mark of living beings, and the mark of a life are no marks. And why? Those who have relinquished all marks are called Buddhas."
( http://www.buddhistdoor.com/OldWeb/bdoor/archive/sutra_comm/diamond/diamond_02.htm#d14 )

Malcolm wrote:
I also know there are no characteristics. So you are still leaving something out.



Astus said:
All these say that from the point of ultimate truth. But not from the point of view of relative truth. You must distinguish the two truths.
They talk about what should be clear, that the conventional reality is just conventional, and that is all the ultimate there is.

Malcolm wrote:
[/quote]

That's why people think Chan is nihilistic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 11:53 PM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Lame, Astus. Everything is without substance, that does not mean that everything is awakened.

Astus said:
Seeing them to be insubstantial is awakening, and recognising all phenomena to be equal (samsara=nirvana).\

Malcolm wrote:
I see phenomena as insubstantial. Am I awakened? (Answer: no) I recognize all phenomena as equal. Am I alwakened? (Answer: no) So there must be something else you are leaving out.




Astus said:
...

Malcolm wrote:
All these say that from the point of ultimate truth. But not from the point of view of relative truth. You must distinguish the two truths.

And yes, I can find citations that both support this idea and negate it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 10:11 PM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Your citations from the MMK don't say that. They merely state that afflictions are not ultimately real.

Astus said:
I cited the MMK only to give something from Nagarjuna related to the topic. But practically the quote backs up with reasoning what the sutras say on the matter, since once the afflictions are seen to be without substance, there is nothing to do about them and they are equal to enlightenment.

Malcolm wrote:
Lame, Astus. Everything is without substance, that does not mean that everything is awakened. (Enlightenment is such a stupid word for bodhi).

You need a quote.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 10:08 PM
Title: Re: The case against lawns
Content:
Ayu said:
Grasland is wilderness. Very different to lawn.

Malcolm wrote:
Did you note that I said this:
BTW, I am not defending lawns, since they are nothing like sod. And of course dry grasslands, are well, dry. But not all are, such as the Pampas in S. America, etc.

Ayu said:
No, sorry, where did you say that?
But I didn't think you were defending lawns. My point was, lawns and grassland shouldn't be equated. I think: let the things grow as they want. Even gras.

Malcolm wrote:
Actually, grass gets thicker the more it is mowed, and or rotationally grazed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 9:56 PM
Title: Re: The case against lawns
Content:
Ayu said:
Grasland is wilderness. Very different to lawn.

Malcolm wrote:
Did you note that I said this:
BTW, I am not defending lawns, since they are nothing like sod. And of course dry grasslands, are well, dry. But not all are, such as the Pampas in S. America, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 9:46 PM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Astus said:
The Mahayana view is that afflictions are enlightenment, simply as they are: empty, ungraspable, and inconceivable.

Malcolm wrote:
Your citations from the MMK don't say that. They merely state that afflictions are not ultimately real.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 9:24 PM
Title: Re: The case against lawns
Content:
David N. Snyder said:
Here in Nevada hardly anyone has a grass lawn any more. But that is because there is a water shortage here. I don't have grass at any of my properties. We have synthetic grass lawns, shrubs, plants, and fruit trees and of course desert sand and rocks.

Nicholas Weeks said:
Good for you, now get the casinos to cut back on fountains, waterfalls, pools etc.


Also, ban golf courses from using grass, just rocks and sand.

Malcolm wrote:
Golf is the stupidest sport ever, and it is bad for your lower back.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 8:32 PM
Title: Re: The case against lawns
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
Please provide references, as I did.


Malcolm wrote:
You can just google grassland carbon sequestration. However.

Kim O'Hara said:
One of the reasons for the intensive use of grasslands is the high natural soil fertility. Grasslands characteristically have high inherent soil organic matter content, averaging 333 Mg1 ha-1 (Schlesinger, 1977). Soil organic matter – an important source of plant nutrients – influences the fate of organic residues and inorganic fertilizers, increases soil aggregation, which can limit soil erosion, and also increases action exchange and water holding capacities (Miller and Donahue, 1990; Kononova, 1966; Allison, 1973; Tate, 1987). It is a key regulator of grassland ecosystem processes. Thus, a prime underlying goal of sustainable management of grassland ecosystems is to maintain high levels of soil organic matter and soil carbon stocks.

Malcolm wrote:
http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/templates/agphome/documents/climate/AGPC_grassland_webversion_19.pdf


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 8:09 PM
Title: Re: The case against lawns
Content:


Kim O'Hara said:
You're right - one-sidedness is not good - but Americans (in particular) are already one-sided with their lawns and need to get rid of some to return to a balance.
You're right - too much human change to the landscape is not good - but the difference between lawn and vegie garden is not as important, to flood control, as the difference between paved surfaces (any kind, including roofs) and growing plants. Anywhere paved, the water just rushes off really quickly. Anywhere with plants, the rain is absorbed like in a sponge and takes a lot longer to move downhill. Forests are best for this but even lawns are better than hard surfaces.


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
Grasslands are better carbon sink than forests, and absorb more water.

Kim O'Hara said:
Hi, Malcolm,
The first half of your comment is not always true according to our (Aussie) Chief Scientist: Based on data from typical perennial grasslands and mature forests in Australia, forests are typically more than 10 times as effective as grasslands at storing carbon on a hectare per hectare basis.
Kim

Malcolm wrote:
In general, it is true. For example, the massive sod buildup in the midwest, before it was all dug up. It averaged 12 feet in depth and more, million of acres.

And it is not simple, "plant things" and heal the planet. One has to plant the right sort of things, and we really do not understand how to "grow a jungle" and create diversity. So, it is better not to destroy habitat in the first place. Conserve, not restore. Why? Restoration is actually impossible and comes with unintended consequences.

BTW, I am not defending lawns, since they are nothing like sod. And of course dry grasslands, are well, dry. But not all are, such as the Pampas in S. America, etc. That said, I have a lawn, with fruit trees, and a garden we grow every summer. And our property is ringed by trees and we live in a third growth New England forest. Lots of trees here, more than lawn.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 8:05 PM
Title: Re: POTUS 2016, part 2
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
We have a saying here which makes the point more strongly:
No matter who you vote for, a politician will be elected.


But I still think we shouldn't give up entirely and opt out of the process. We can still have an effect at times, especially when we band together.


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
Movements are one thing. Parties, another. Political parties tend to become Death Stars.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 7:19 PM
Title: Re: The case against lawns
Content:


Kim O'Hara said:
You're right - one-sidedness is not good - but Americans (in particular) are already one-sided with their lawns and need to get rid of some to return to a balance.
You're right - too much human change to the landscape is not good - but the difference between lawn and vegie garden is not as important, to flood control, as the difference between paved surfaces (any kind, including roofs) and growing plants. Anywhere paved, the water just rushes off really quickly. Anywhere with plants, the rain is absorbed like in a sponge and takes a lot longer to move downhill. Forests are best for this but even lawns are better than hard surfaces.


Kim

Malcolm wrote:
Grasslands are better carbon sink than forests, and absorb more water.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 1:11 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen & Vipashyana on thoughts
Content:
tomamundsen said:
I saw Lama Tony's post yesterday evening. Does anyone have a link to Jax's original comments?

Malcolm wrote:
Oh yawn, what a bore. Mildly entertaining for thirty seconds.

We cannot control other people's delusion, not matter how much we try. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

tomamundsen said:
Well I'm particularly curious about the Longchen Nyingthig controversy. As Lama Tony mentions, we should investigate.

Malcolm wrote:
There is nothing to investigate, we all know who Jax is and what his points of view are. It is useless to criticize others, as it just makes one a target of criticism in return. If Duff thinks he is helping anyone, he is mistaken. He is just creating more karma with Jax.

As for the Longchen Nyinthig thing, Jax is just garbling something that ChNN often says: many people think Longchen Nyinthig is all about Dzogchen, but in reality the vast bulk of its is sadhanas. Also, Yeshe Lama is not part of the Longchen Nyinthig, it is not a terma, it is Jigme Lingpa's composition. There are a few very nice Dzogchen texts in the Longchen Nyingthig, but they are very short.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 12:46 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen & Vipashyana on thoughts
Content:
Garudavista said:
It appears that Jax's mistaken assertions about Dzogchen have caught the eye of Lama Tony Duff (see Lama Tony Duff's Fb Post below), which I am glad to see because I think Lama Tony's constructive criticism of Jax's errors may help some people from getting lost in confusion.

tomamundsen said:
I saw Lama Tony's post yesterday evening. Does anyone have a link to Jax's original comments?

Malcolm wrote:
Oh yawn, what a bore. Mildly entertaining for thirty seconds.

We cannot control other people's delusion, not matter how much we try. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 10th, 2016 at 12:05 AM
Title: Re: Essence of Conservatism
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
I will happily acknowledge merit where I find it, Nicholas, but that Preface smacks of hagiography. It also - strangely - seems even more old-fashioned than Kirk himself. If you told me the second paragraph had been written in (say) 1910, I wouldn't have any real reason to doubt you.


Kim

Nicholas Weeks said:
How pitiable, a modern conservative Sage finds value and inspiration in old sages.

Unlike we Buddhists, who only admire 21st century sages.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't about that, I am rather fond of sages from Fifth Century BCE -- to the 19th century CE.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 9th, 2016 at 11:29 PM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Saoshun said:
and dzogchen view on them ? if you can explain.

1. Theravada - refraining from fetters and uprooting thru jhana/vipassana meditation and insight.
2. Tantra - transformation?
3. Dzogchen - seeing their true nature (?)

Malcolm wrote:
Dzogchen view involves seeing the real nature of afflictions is pristine consciousness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 9th, 2016 at 8:30 PM
Title: Re: Difference views on fetters and kilesas?
Content:
Saoshun said:
Examples based or Nagarjuna or how Kilesas are technically related to the tantriks who indulge in them etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Which Nāgārjuna, the one who wrote the MMK? You won't find them. But the one who wrote the Pañcakrama, that is a different story.

The Vajrayāna point of view of the five kleshas is that they are impure form of the five pristine consciousnesses. The so called "tantric" approach is that they are transformed, and when one becomes a strong practitioner, one tests one's practice by engaging in special conduct, which may involve any number of activities normally considered afflictive by those of common Mahāyāna and Hinayāna persuasions. This is why such things are "secret."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 9th, 2016 at 11:23 AM
Title: Re: Gradualism in Dzogchen teachings nowadays ?
Content:
MiphamFan said:
You can do yantra right after receiving DI, or SMS practice's.

Vasana said:
The preliminary excercises and 25 Yantras are taught publicly now, even without D.I.

Realization its self may be non gradual but stabilizing recognition is something that needs ongoing application.

Non-gradual doesn't mean a magic light switch comes on only once and you're completely finished unless you're of the highest capacity of practioners who has no need to stabilize your initial recognition.

Most of us need to recognize mind escence again and again until it's stable hence these auxiliary practices to help integrate the natural state.

Yantra can be a complete path in anf of its self if completely mastered, although the path of means is always to be accompanied by the path of wisdom.

steve_bakr said:
This seems like a wise answer in terms of stabilizing the natural state. A Tantra translated by Wilkonson as "The Tantras of Vajrasattva's Magnificent Sky" demonstrates the non-gradualism of the Great Perfection, and so does that called "The Supreme Source." These two seem to say that the ways of cause and result, of working towards a goal, are not the highest. Some even call meditation a hindrance when it has a goal in mind. They state that the natural state is not to be worked for, because it is already here. But stabilization of this state is very appropriate because there are many distractions.

Malcolm wrote:
Recognition, realization, liberation, this corresponds to the three rigpas: the rigpa of the basis, the rigpa  of the path, and the rigpa of the result.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 9th, 2016 at 2:26 AM
Title: Re: Benefits of meditation - scientific evidence
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't...

boda said:
It isn't

Malcolm wrote:
They fall for it every time...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 9th, 2016 at 1:10 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2016, part 2
Content:
Queequeg said:
Good point.

The consideration I had, though, was that I'd replace his signs with Green Party signs. Don't know if that would send the same message, though, since most people have no idea that the Green party even exists.

What do you think?


Malcolm wrote:
“At last I have understood that a party is a counterproductive tool, that the given political space is a trap into which life energy disappears, indeed, where it is rededicated to the spiral of death.”
— Rudolf Bharo, Building the Green Movement.

"Is a political party playing by rules set up to favor an industrial capitalist status quo, within what is perhaps misleadingly called “liberal democracy,” not doomed to eventual absorption and neutralization?"
-- David Orton, The Ecocentric Left and Green Electoralism


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 9th, 2016 at 1:03 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2016, part 2
Content:
Queequeg said:
Until Bernie throws in the towel, the Bernie signs will stay up at my house.

Malcolm wrote:
Keeping it up even after. It's not about parties, it's about people.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 8th, 2016 at 10:41 PM
Title: Re: Benefits of meditation - scientific evidence
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't
it is
it isn't...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 8th, 2016 at 3:28 AM
Title: Re: Ratnagotravibhāga
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
"Dhyani buddha" is a not a traditional term, it is term invented by western scholars. The five buddhas to which you are referring are the respective nirmanakāyas of their buddhafields, just as Śākyamuni is the buddha of this buddhafield.

Nicholas Weeks said:
Whether Brian Hodgson 'invented' it or his Newari sage did, it is not such a bad term, since many images of the five are meditating.

http://www.britannica.com/topic/Dhyani-Buddha

I started another thread, since we are going off-topic.

Malcolm wrote:
No, in no set of five are they all meditating. Only Amitabha is shown in meditation posture. Generally each of the five has a different gesture, for example, Akshobhya is generall shown touching the ground, Vairocana is shown turning the wheel of Dharma, etc.

The term was invented by non-practitioners who did not understand what they are looking at.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 8th, 2016 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: Ratnagotravibhāga
Content:
smcj said:
Yours has a red cover, right? It's different but just as good.

Bakmoon said:
Yup, red cover with a picture of Asanga on the front. Very concise and to the point.

Malcolm wrote:
"Dhyani buddha" is a not a traditional term, it is term invented by western scholars. The five buddhas to which you are referring are the respective nirmanakāyas of their buddhafields, just as Śākyamuni is the buddha of this buddhafield.

Bakmoon said:
What is the traditional term? Is it something like the Buddhas of the 5 wisdoms or something?

Malcolm wrote:
Just pañcakula, the five families.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 11:19 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Harimoo said:
Is there any difference between pre-order on Wisdom Publications and pre-order on Amazon ? (shipments to Europe with Wisdom Pub are huge)

Malcolm wrote:
It is going to be internationally distributed by Simon and Schuster, so you should also be able to get it from Wisdom Books in England.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 11:18 PM
Title: Re: Lists of buddha names in sutras?
Content:
Monlam Tharchin said:
So in sutras, you sometimes encounter lists of Buddhas, such as:
Shorter Amitabha Sutra said:
Shariputra, in the Zenith words there are Buddha Brahmaghosha, Buddha Nakshatraraja, Buddha Gandhottama, Buddha Gandhaprabhasa, Buddha Maharciskandha, Buddha Ratnakusumasampushpitagatra, Buddha Salendraraja, Buddha Ratnotpalashri, Buddha Sarvarthadarsha, Buddha Sumerukalpa, and Buddhas as many as the sands of the River Ganges

Monlam Tharchin said:
I'm not sure what to do with these lists.
Does each Buddha have its own practice/story/visualization that I should become familiar with, or is it sufficient to read the names as I chant the sutra?

Malcolm wrote:
It is sufficient merely to read their names.

Monlam Tharchin said:
Second, is it acceptable to chant the equivalent English translations of the buddha names instead of the Sanskrit?
Is there any reason to chant them in Sanskrit?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. Though the Sanskrit is nicer.


Brah-ma-ghosha
Nak-shatra-raja
Gandh-ottama
Gan-dha-pra-bhasa
Mahar-chi-skandha
Ratna-ku-suma-sam-poosh-pita-gatra
Sa-lendra-raja
Rat-not-pala-shri
Sarv-ar-tha-dar-sha
Su-meru-kalpa

Something like this

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 10:53 PM
Title: Re: Ratnagotravibhāga
Content:
Nicholas Weeks said:
Thanks for the links crazy, but the question is still unresolved.  The Dhyani buddhas like Amita seem to be in a different category than the buddhas in this bhadra kalpa like Shakyamuni.


Malcolm wrote:
"Dhyani buddha" is a not a traditional term, it is term invented by western scholars. The five buddhas to which you are referring are the respective nirmanakāyas of their buddhafields, just as Śākyamuni is the buddha of this buddhafield.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 9:07 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This just in, from my facebook feed:
Daniel Aitken from Wisdom Publications here just letting you know that you can now pre-order Malcolm's book at wisdompubs.org/book/buddhahood-life --> Click add to cart --> enter BLPD16 in the discount code box --> then hit recalc order to get a 30% discount. Note: the book went on back order for a couple of days and so sorry for the delay. The book is published in December, but we hope to get it to those who pre-order sometime in November. Thanks everyone and enjoy! For all further questions please email mailto:community@wisdompubs.org.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 8:54 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Kelwin said:
Could you elaborate a bit on it's contents, and/or how it's different from other works on Dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
Most importantly, it is the precursor to Longchenpa's Tshig don mdzod, and is the text that Longchenpa had in front of him when he wrote the latter. Longchenpa lifts entire passages from this text. Secondly, it contains, I believe, the first translation of an extensive analysis of the opening scenes of the Dzogcnen tantras, the nidāna section. Third, it is a quarter of the length of the Tshig don mdzod, making it a more manageable text, since it has many less citations. It gives context to Longchenpa's own works and thought on Dzogchen man ngag sde. It is a major text of the Northern Treasures tradition. Finally, it has my introduction where I detail my thoughts on Dzogchen terminology and view.

M

Kelwin said:
Thank you, order coming up!

Malcolm wrote:
I hope you enjoy it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 8:00 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Saoshun said:
Is this book any practical like Sublime Dharma type instructions or nang jang?

Malcolm wrote:
This book is a comprehensive overview of the approach of Dzogchen man ngag sde. It is not a visionary account, like Dudjom Lingpa's Nangjang.

Kelwin said:
Could you elaborate a bit on it's contents, and/or how it's different from other works on Dzogchen?

Malcolm wrote:
Most importantly, it is the precursor to Longchenpa's Tshig don mdzod, and is the text that Longchenpa had in front of him when he wrote the latter. Longchenpa lifts entire passages from this text. Secondly, it contains, I believe, the first translation of an extensive analysis of the opening scenes of the Dzogcnen tantras, the nidāna section. Third, it is a quarter of the length of the Tshig don mdzod, making it a more manageable text, since it has many less citations. It gives context to Longchenpa's own works and thought on Dzogchen man ngag sde. It is a major text of the Northern Treasures tradition. Finally, it has my introduction where I detail my thoughts on Dzogchen terminology and view.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 4:18 AM
Title: Re: The Treasury of Basic Space of Phenomena
Content:
smcj said:
How does...

...suggest that mountains disappear when you stop looking at them? Or, for that matter, how does the mirror metaphor suggest that either?


Malcolm wrote:
Dude, find a Dzogchen master and stop trying to interpret this teaching based on translations for texts you have never been taught.

But just a head's up:
Empty vidyā, the dharmakāya beyond thought, 
is very different from space, an inert void. 
The major and minor marks of the sambhogakāya of vidyā
are very different from the sun and moon’s inert light.
The emanations of vidyā that performs deeds that benefit others
is very different than the inert emanation of the four continents.
-- The Tantra of the Sun Blazing in the Clear Sky Tantra

smcj said:
Sorry, but I really don't see how your last two posts relate to mine at all, minus the dismissive part. They read like non-seqluitors. Given this is an internet forum and that you're a really bright guy, your posts should make sense. If anything your quotation of that tantra just restates the same point that Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche made.

Malcolm wrote:
I was answering a question which you edited out of your post concerning whether or not this meant that rigpa was everything.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 3:40 AM
Title: Re: The Treasury of Basic Space of Phenomena
Content:
smcj said:
No, since Longchenpa also ridicules the idea of mountains disappearing if we cease looking at them.
How does... In the ultimate sense, space and awareness are a unity.
...suggest that mountains disappear when you stop looking at them? Or, for that matter, how does the mirror metaphor suggest that either?


Malcolm wrote:
Dude, find a Dzogchen master and stop trying to interpret this teaching based on translations for texts you have never been taught.

But just a head's up:
Empty vidyā, the dharmakāya beyond thought, 
is very different from space, an inert void. 
The major and minor marks of the sambhogakāya of vidyā
are very different from the sun and moon’s inert light.
The emanations of vidyā that performs deeds that benefit others
is very different than the inert emanation of the four continents.
-- The Tantra of the Sun Blazing in the Clear Sky Tantra

From a karmic point of view, Dzogchen makes a hard distinction between inert and sentient phenomena, even if that distinction vanishes in realization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 3:34 AM
Title: Re: The Treasury of Basic Space of Phenomena
Content:
smcj said:
In the ultimate sense, space and awareness are a unity.
That is beautiful! I love how he brings space and awareness together as a unity. What really answered my question is when he said that space is always accompanied by wakefulness.
Pretty trippy. Reminds me of the mirror metaphor.

Malcolm wrote:
No, since Longchenpa also ridicules the idea of mountains disappearing if we cease looking at them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: Is it attachment to tell someone you like them?
Content:
MiphamFan said:
If I like someone and tell them, in hopes of starting a relationship, is it attachment and hence the cause for being reborn as a preta?

How do I go beyond hope and fear in this situation?
If I tell them, then I am hoping for a relationship.

If I avoid, I am either fearing rejection or rebirth as a preta.

Just tell them without any expectation?

Malcolm wrote:
If you become a stalker, maybe. But otherwise, why would it be?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, June 7th, 2016 at 2:24 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
Buddha was a therapist...

Malcolm wrote:
You'll fit right in with the Secular Buddhist crowd, Dante.

gad rgyangs said:
"So, Māluṅkyaputta, remember what is undeclared by me as undeclared, and what is declared by me as declared.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, Buddha would think this whole conversation was stupid and off topic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 11:34 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
Buddha was a therapist...

Malcolm wrote:
You'll fit right in with the Secular Buddhist crowd, Dante.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Iconodule said:
I think people living at the time of the Buddha could have quite easily seen that the Mt Meru cosmology did not match up exactly with the bare observable facts, but they retained it regardless.

Malcolm wrote:
Something like the TO world maps...

Iconodule said:
Sure. And for one thing, a 100-mile high tree at the center of the continent should have been readily observable. Taken in a bare empirical sense, it seems to me the jambudvipa cosmology would be almost immediately falsifiable, which raises questions about how it really should be taken.

Malcolm wrote:
As a moral and aesthetic cosmolgy, not literally. For example, Edward Henning, probably the worlds leading expert on Kalacakra calculations right now, points out in his lengthy technical book, Kalacakra and the Tibetan Calendar, that the authors of the Kalacakra certainly did not take the Meru cosmology literally because the calculations it offers for calendar making won't work in a Meru Cosmology, though they do work fine in a terra-centric model, just like Ptolmeic astrology (upon which all Indian astrological systems are based).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 10:19 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Iconodule said:
I think people living at the time of the Buddha could have quite easily seen that the Mt Meru cosmology did not match up exactly with the bare observable facts, but they retained it regardless.

Malcolm wrote:
Something like the TO world maps...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 9:45 PM
Title: Re: How did Milarepa do it?
Content:
aussiebloke said:
Malcolm where do you get the information that Milarepa had ten dzogchen teachers?

Malcolm wrote:
Ten Nyingma masters, not ten Dzogchen teachers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 9:15 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
tiagolps said:
Stephen Batchelor runs a therapy show.

Malcolm wrote:
I saw him once, about eight months ago, it was pretty boring and predictable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 7:21 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


Tsongkhapafan said:
We all live on Jambudipa, it's not just India.

Malcolm wrote:
It's is just India.

maybay said:
Where do we live?

Malcolm wrote:
Turtle Island.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 7:11 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


Tsongkhapafan said:
Quite obviously Jambudipa cannot be planet Earth...

Malcolm wrote:
Of course not, since it is India.

Tsongkhapafan said:
We all live on Jambudipa, it's not just India.

Malcolm wrote:
It's is just India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 7:09 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Quay said:
[

But if you're saying that in a conventional sense the earth appears to be generally like it was then (in relation to the average human lifespan over the last twenty centuries) but the way of looking at it has generally changed then that makes sense to me.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 7:06 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Tsongkhapafan said:
[

Buddha had a more limited understanding....

Malcolm wrote:
I did not say that. I said that Indians during the time of the Buddha had a more limited understanding. But would your faith in Dharma really come crashing down if Buddha was not knowledgeable in atomic physics?


Tsongkhapafan said:
All biographies of Nagarjuna explain that he went to the Northern Continent (sorry, my mistake). What evidence do you have that these are tall tales? Because you don't agree? Nagarjuna wrote about Mount Meru in his works such as Friendly Letter - was he wrong, confused or of a more limited understanding? This is a very ordinary view.

Malcolm wrote:
The biographies of Nāgārjuna are fanciful hagiographies (and you are only referring to Tibetan hagiographies, to the exclusion of earlier Chinese ones) written many centuries after his death. They are statements of faith, not statements of fact. In fact we know very little about Nāgārjuna as a person. Traditional sources frequently conflate Nāgārjuna of the MMK with later persons of the same name. But really, we don't need to know much about Nāgārjuna of the MMK as a person. His enduring legacy is found in the collection of reasoning and the collection of praises (excluding the Dharmadhātustava, which is clearly much later).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 6:23 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Virgo said:
Are you saying that beings on earth at that time perceived Mt. Meru (and that is why it was described), or are you saying that Enlightened Beings simply perceive geography differently than we do?

Kevin

Tsongkhapafan said:
Quite obviously Jambudipa cannot be planet Earth...

Malcolm wrote:
Of course not, since it is India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 6:22 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


Tsongkhapafan said:
That's because you are literalist (despite your protestations) and cannot understand how two completely different realities can exist and that Buddha and other Indian scholars were not describing the world that appears karmically to our minds today.

Malcolm wrote:
They experienced the same world we do today. They just had a more limited understanding of it since they travelled less, had less scientific instruments for measurement, less reliable means of recording things they discovered, and so on.


Tsongkhapafan said:
No doubt you revere Nagarjuna from the point of view of his teaching of the Middle Way yet you cannot accept that he saw Mount Meru and went to the Western continent, even though this is the consequence of his teaching!

Malcolm wrote:
I have read every text written by Nāgārjuna, and there is not a single one where he reports either seeing Meru or travelling Aparagodaniya. These are tall tales without shred of truth in them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 6:09 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Sherab Dorje said:
Yes Meru exists.
No Meru does not exist.
Meru exists at a conventional level but not an absolute level.

Who's going to use the fourth option?

Malcolm wrote:
What I really want to know is why Buddha, Nāgārjuna and Vasubandhu never mentioned anywhere the continents now known as North and South America. It is not like the magically popped into existence when they were "discovered" by Colombus.

Tsongkhapafan said:
Quite simply because those things didn't exist for them. They exist only for us who have more degenerate minds and impure karma.

Malcolm wrote:
Really, so all those human beings who lived in the Mayan empire 2000 years ago just popped into being one day? Are you daft? Dinosaurs did not exist because they were not relevant to the Buddha?

I think you better revisit what "conventional" means.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 6:07 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Sherab Dorje said:
Did they mention Australia anywhere?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, actually.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 6:07 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


Tsongkhapafan said:
Errr, we are talking about the omniscient Buddha here aren't we? Buddha explained the universe in different ways in accordance with the karma of the beings who experienced it because it appeared differently to them.

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha explained things to people in a way which corresponded with their inclinations. He was not running a class in advanced cosmology.

Tsongkhapafan said:
I'm surprised you take such as literal view about these things.

Malcolm wrote:
The one here taking a literalist view is you.


Tsongkhapafan said:
Surely someone who understands emptiness also understands that there are as many worlds and as many universes as there are living beings because everyone has individual karma and there is no inherently existent world? It's completely subjective and therefore for those who have the karma to validly perceive Mount Meru, Mount Meru exists.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course I accept that there are many worlds and universes, all formed out of the karma of sentient beings.

What I do not accept is that medieval Indian representations of Terra Firma ever depicted our own planet with as much accuracy as we have today.

There are so many inconsistencies: for example, the sun rises because it comes from behind Meru, and the moon sets because it moves behind Meru. But the reality is that even Indian astronomical math, concurrent with Vasubandhu, for example, excludes the possibility of Mt. Meru, which is why Hindus commonly located Meru at the poles (of course they never visited the poles, so they were speculating).

So just accept Meri cosmology for what it is a) an inaccurate representation of our world, an axial cosmology meant to describe the relative location of beings above and below the plane of the ground, according to their merit and leave it at that. Meru Cosmology cannot be taken literally, or conventionally. It is a best a moral metaphor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 5:55 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Sherab Dorje said:
Of course you realise that, according to your logic, it is just as incorrect to say it does exist.  In which case:  back to square 1.

Tsongkhapafan said:
That doesn't make any sense. Since great beings with greater insight and keener minds have described the universe according to the Mount Meru model, it definitely does exist for some.

Sherab Dorje said:
Yes Meru exists.
No Meru does not exist.
Meru exists at a conventional level but not an absolute level.

Who's going to use the fourth option?

Malcolm wrote:
What I really want to know is why Buddha, Nāgārjuna and Vasubandhu never mentioned anywhere the continents now known as North and South America. It is not like the magically popped into existence when they were "discovered" by Colombus.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 5:38 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
Tsongkhapafan said:
Since everything is mere karmic appearance, and there are different appearances for different minds, it is incorrect to say that Mount Meru does not exist.

Sherab Dorje said:
Of course you realise that, according to your logic, it is just as incorrect to say it does exist.  In which case:  back to square 1.

Tsongkhapafan said:
That doesn't make any sense. Since great beings with greater insight and keener minds have described the universe according to the Mount Meru model, it definitely does exist for some.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it can be explained just as easily that they were explaining things in accordance with what people at that time thought was true, in accordance with the conventions of the day, and were they explaining the same things today, they would explain the universe according to the model presented to us by modern astronomy and geography. Yes conventions change, but we rarely trade in our new conventions for old ones.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 5:35 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
BuddhaFollower said:
So what is the best way to support Meru cosmology?

Point out that Tertons use Meru cosmology to navigate the Pure Lands?


P.S. Yes I know Pure Lands is not the accurate translation.

Malcolm wrote:
Why should we bother? Meru Cosmology is useful for mandala offerings, but it is an ancient interpretation of our world, and it does not need to be the same world that actually formed out of the karma of ordinary sentient beings.

The material of the Meru Cosmology which we offer in mandala offerings is something that we imagine is formed out of our body, enjoyments and the merit we have accumulated throughout the three times, its essence being inseparable bliss and emptiness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 5:23 AM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:


Tsongkhapafan said:
Yes, but the appearance of pus and blood is valid for a hungry ghost, and water is a valid cognition for a human.

Malcolm wrote:
The preta's vision of pus and blood is not valid for humans.

Tsongkhapafan said:
It would be wrong to say that there are beings who do not experience liquid as pus and blood. In the same way, it would be wrong to say that there are no beings who experience Mount Meru.

Malcolm wrote:
False equivalence. We are talking about the common conventional perceptions of humans in this dimension. We are not discussing intra-dimensional perceptions. The world the Buddha and Nāgārjuna were discussing was this human realm.

Tsongkhapafan said:
Buddha talked about it, as did Nagarjuna (who went to the Western continent) and other great Buddhist masters. We cannot say that the appearance of a planet earth is the only valid appearance.

Malcolm wrote:
It is quite possible Nāgārjuna went to Africa (the western continent), though unlikely, given that he lived in South-East India, in the Andhra region. The basis for the Meru cosmology is this planet, merely represented inaccurately in the imagination of some medieval Indians who did not have as accurate a geographical understanding of this world as we do today.

For example, both Ptolemy and Vasubandhu talk about the Kurus (Scythians), but by Vasubandhu's time (a good 6 centuries after Ptolemy's time, long after the Scythians had vanished as a people), the account of the Central Asian steppes and their peoples were so garbled in the imagination of some Indians, they wrote down all kinds of fabulous exaggerations about the Earth that we see in chapter three of the Kosha.

For example, many people make the mistake of thinking that Jambudvipa is the whole planet earth, when its descriptions clearly indicate that it is only a description of the subcontinent of India.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 3:08 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
steve_bakr said:
I pre-ordered the Kindle version.


Malcolm wrote:
Thanks!


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 3:05 AM
Title: Re: The Treasury of Basic Space of Phenomena
Content:
steve_bakr said:
I have read this work by Longchenpa several times and would appreciate impressions and commentaries of others here. It seems to go beyond traditional concepts and boundaries. I would also appreciate your thoughts on the "space of Phenomena."

Malcolm wrote:
It is meant to support the practice of trekchö.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, June 6th, 2016 at 1:27 AM
Title: Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
Content:
Pema Yolo said:
What is going on here? Everyone just listens to music together for a while?

Malcolm wrote:
NO, first there is generally singing, then there is dancing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 5th, 2016 at 10:06 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
madhusudan said:
I'm looking for recommendations of texts that explain the error in scientific materialism and/or positivism. I have Thinley Norbu's Cascading Waterfall of Nectar, which has some good refutations of both eternalism and nihilism. What medicine do you recommend?

Malcolm wrote:
His refutation of modern geography and defense of Meru Cosmology is pretty lame, quite frankly.

Tsongkhapafan said:
Since Mount Meru is a mere appearance to mind in accordance with a person's karma (as is everything) and doesn't exist outside the mind, how can Mount Meru be refuted?

Malcolm wrote:
Just as the karmic appearance of pus and blood to a preta is a false perception of water for a human, likewise, the imputation of Mt. Meru cosmology is a false imputation from the perspective of what is commonly accepted conventionally among most modern humans living today.

That said, I have always maintained that Meru Cosmology has a basis in our world, but that it is Indo-centric perspective of the world, no more nor less exaggerated than medieval European visions of the world, with all their inaccuracies and "Here be monsters..."

Anyway, it is pretty clear that Meru Cosmology is a descendent of Babylonian cosmology, shifted to India.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_Map_of_the_World


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 5th, 2016 at 9:58 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
madhusudan said:
I'm looking for recommendations of texts that explain the error in scientific materialism and/or positivism. I have Thinley Norbu's Cascading Waterfall of Nectar, which has some good refutations of both eternalism and nihilism. What medicine do you recommend?

Malcolm wrote:
His refutation of modern geography and defense of Meru Cosmology is pretty lame, quite frankly.

Manjushri Fan said:
Hi Malcolm, I don't have the text but I don't suppose you can gove a brief rundown of his refutation.



Malcolm wrote:
He gives a classic argument from authority. 1) It says so in Abhidharmakośa, 2) it is based on wisdom, and therefore we are fools to reject it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 5th, 2016 at 8:50 PM
Title: Re: Texts that destroy ""scientific" materialism
Content:
madhusudan said:
I'm looking for recommendations of texts that explain the error in scientific materialism and/or positivism. I have Thinley Norbu's Cascading Waterfall of Nectar, which has some good refutations of both eternalism and nihilism. What medicine do you recommend?

Malcolm wrote:
His refutation of modern geography and defense of Meru Cosmology is pretty lame, quite frankly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 5th, 2016 at 4:10 AM
Title: Re: Sangha in the west
Content:
Nyedrag Yeshe said:
What are your opinions about how the term and the idea of 'Sangha' changed and was corrupted in the west?

Malcolm wrote:
It has not changed, nor has it been corrupted.

Nyedrag Yeshe said:
Please, explain why not Namdrol la!

Malcolm wrote:
One, the Sangha is all people who have taken refuge, not just "ordained" people. This is made extremely clear by Gorampa Sonam Senge, among others.

The refuge of the Sangha has two aspects: the Aryā Sangha, the actual Sangha of refuge, and then there are our teachers and companions on the path. And for Mahāyanists, the Ārya Sangha of Refuge is only bodhisattvas, not even arhats and so on.

In Tibet, monasteries are the source of community life. People go to them for education, medical care, advice, rituals, help with mundane matters as well as spiritual.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 5th, 2016 at 3:10 AM
Title: Re: Sangha in the west
Content:
Nyedrag Yeshe said:
What are your opinions about how the term and the idea of 'Sangha' changed and was corrupted in the west?

Malcolm wrote:
It has not changed, nor has it been corrupted.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 5th, 2016 at 2:17 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
well of course, but on some readings they are only negated for "beings" with svabhava, and still apply to conventional phenomena. But its pretty incoherent: if you assert non-arising, then how are you supposed to get dependent arising?

Malcolm wrote:
At this point, who cares?  Kind of tired of this conversation. Madhyamaka 101.


gad rgyangs said:
cop out

Malcolm wrote:
No, boredom.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 5th, 2016 at 1:47 AM
Title: Re: POTUS 2016, part 2
Content:
kirtu said:
Come on - people born and raised in the US have always had a tendency toward violence.  America is an angry, violent place and this is nothing new in itself.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, because people born in Europe are so peace-loving and calm....


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 5th, 2016 at 1:42 AM
Title: Re: Sangha in the west
Content:
Nyedrag Yeshe said:
he justifies some of my opinions.

Malcolm wrote:
Isn't it great when our opinions are justified?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 5th, 2016 at 1:13 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
If you see a seed planted in the ground and then you see a sprout grow from it, how do you explain this?

Malcolm wrote:
Through the six causes and four conditions. But these are negated in the very first chapter of the MMK.

gad rgyangs said:
well of course, but on some readings they are only negated for "beings" with svabhava, and still apply to conventional phenomena. But its pretty incoherent: if you assert non-arising, then how are you supposed to get dependent arising?

Malcolm wrote:
At this point, who cares?  Kind of tired of this conversation. Madhyamaka 101.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 5th, 2016 at 12:53 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
Dependent arising...[is]...not really an attempt to understand or describe the world.


Malcolm wrote:
So again, you are disagreeing above only to agree here. I said above:

Nope. It [dependent origination] was not intended to describe external physical processes at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, June 5th, 2016 at 12:50 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
If you see a seed planted in the ground and then you see a sprout grow from it, how do you explain this?

Malcolm wrote:
Through the six causes and four conditions. But these are negated in the very first chapter of the MMK.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 9:45 PM
Title: Re: kriya yoga
Content:
HandsomeMonkeyking said:
A long time ago I read 'Autobiography of a Yogi' by Paramahansa Yogananda, in there is 'Kriya Yoga' mentioned.
Now reading 'The Lotus Born' I also came about this term. I wonder if they are the same are are related in any way. If there is any traceback/connection.

If I remember correctly Yogananda was Hindu.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the terms have no relation to one another. Kriya Yoga tantra is the lowest of the six or four divisions of tantra, concerning itself with ritual purity and ritual details.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 9:39 PM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
is dependent arising an archaic theory of physics that has been replaced by more current theories like quantum physics and relativity?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope. It was not intended to describe external physical processes at all. But that is off top for this thread.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 9:12 PM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Ummmm...Nāgārjuna held the metaphysical view that sentient beings take rebirth, that past actions ripen, that merit must be accumulated in order to earn the marks of a buddha, etc. So obviously this is not the case.

gad rgyangs said:
all this concerns conventional reality and therefore is not metaphysical, and is illusory as well.

Malcolm wrote:
hahahahaha, now that is some eel-wriggling. What it proves in the end, after all this bullshit, is that you agree with me that the "views" that Nāgārjuna was concerned to remove are solely views concerning existence and nonexistence. Case closed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 8:47 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Saoshun said:
Is this book any practical like Sublime Dharma type instructions or nang jang?

Malcolm wrote:
This book is a comprehensive overview of the approach of Dzogchen man ngag sde. It is not a visionary account, like Dudjom Lingpa's Nangjang.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 8:43 PM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
you are completely misunderstanding the story that Chanra quotes: the whole point is views can be antidotal, but after they have done their antidoting, they must be eliminated or they will themselves become poisons.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I understand the point. But your insistence that we must not views at all for any reason is too extreme.

gad rgyangs said:
see my comment above about dependent arising: it is only metaphysical views that must be abandoned. Physical views can be taken or left as convenient.

Malcolm wrote:
Ummmm...Nāgārjuna held the metaphysical view that sentient beings take rebirth, that past actions ripen, that merit must be accumulated in order to earn the marks of a buddha, etc. So obviously this is not the case.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 11:42 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
that's why, when commenting on 13.8, Chandra quotes this passage from the Kāśyapaparivata Sūtra:

Malcolm wrote:
You are confusing emptiness with dependent origination. Emptiness is a negation, but dependent origination is a statement on how conditiond things function, i.e things do not arise from themselves, from other, from both or without a cause.

You are also making the mistaken argument that views cannot be antidotal, that they are invariably pathological. Thus, Candrakirti states that right view, emptiness, is the antidote for wrong views.

I think you are getting a little too carried away with your anti-view view.

gad rgyangs said:
you are completely misunderstanding the story that Chanra quotes: the whole point is views can be antidotal, but after they have done their antidoting, they must be eliminated or they will themselves become poisons.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I understand the point. But your insistence that we must not views at all for any reason is too extreme.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 11:15 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
that's why, when commenting on 13.8, Chandra quotes this passage from the Kāśyapaparivata Sūtra:
It is as if, Kāśyapa, there were a sick person, and a doctor were to give that person a physic, and that physic having gone to the gut, having eliminated all the person's bad humors, was not itself expelled. What do you think, Kāśyapa, would that person be free of disease?

No, lord, the illness of the person would be more intense if the physic eliminated all the bad humors but was not expelled from the gut.

Malcolm wrote:
You are confusing emptiness with dependent origination. Emptiness is a negation, but dependent origination is a statement on how conditiond things function, i.e things do not arise from themselves, from other, from both or without a cause.

You are also making the mistaken argument that views cannot be antidotal, that they are invariably pathological. Thus, Candrakirti states that right view, emptiness, is the antidote for wrong views.

I think you are getting a little too carried away with your anti-view view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 10:59 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
But it clearly is a view: "Where this arises, that arose; with the arising that, this arose; where cease ceases, that ceases; with the cessation of that, this ceases."

How does dependent origination function? It functions because entities are empty of existence and nonexistence. That emptiness is what is not to be taken as a view. But dependent origination is acceptable as a view. Why? This is the question you need to ask yourself. If Buddha taught no views at all, then there is no need for Dharma, a path, nor could there be a result.

gad rgyangs said:
Dependent origination we declare to be emptiness.
It is a dependent concept; just that is the middle path.
24.18

Emptiness is taught by the conquerors as the expedient to get rid of all views.
But those for whom emptiness is a view have been called incurable.
13.8

He taught therapies, not views.


Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha did not teach emptiness as a view, indeed, but he certainly taught dependent origination as a view. In fact it is what is called "right view."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 9:37 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There are only two of those views, i.e., "It exists" and "It does not exist." Nāgārjuna negates these two because he has a view — dependent origination, which he calls the "the pacification of views."

gad rgyangs said:
which must not itself be taken as a view.

Malcolm wrote:
But it clearly is a view: "Where this arises, that arose; with the arising that, this arose; where cease ceases, that ceases; with the cessation of that, this ceases."

How does dependent origination function? It functions because entities are empty of existence and nonexistence. That emptiness is what is not to be taken as a view. But dependent origination is acceptable as a view. Why? This is the question you need to ask yourself. If Buddha taught no views at all, then there is no need for Dharma, a path, nor could there be a result.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 9:18 AM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:
MiphamFan said:
What about the bram ze'i skor of Zhangton Chobar, the Lamdre lineage head? Is there any mention of its origins?


Malcolm wrote:
Yes it is the terma of Drom Yeshé Nyingpo, who likely lived in the mid-tenth and early eleventh centuries, making him earlier than Sangye Lama.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 9:14 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
As long as we understand, as I pointed out at the very beginning here, that "all views" simply means views of existence and nonexistence.

gad rgyangs said:
any views that attempt to objectively characterize the "non-enumerated ultimate truth, which is inexpressible".

Malcolm wrote:
There are only two of those views, i.e., "It exists" and "It does not exist." Nāgārjuna negates these two because he has a view — dependent origination, which he calls the "the pacification of views."


gad rgyangs said:
This pair, samsara and nirvana, do not exist. 
However thorough knowledge of samsara is nirvana.
this can only mean that thorough knowledge that the proliferations "samsara" and "nirvana" are nothing but proliferations is release from proliferations.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I don't think so. That is not the intent of the statement.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 6:55 AM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:


heart said:
Thank you, I do appreciate the quotes. For me it is obvious that there was a lineage of Dzogchen Nyingtik  before Zhangton and that he was a lineage holder. Isn't it possible that some of the Vima Nyingtik is more kama than terma?

Malcolm wrote:
Zhangton makes it very clear that prior to him the utterly secret cycle was not promulgated prior to his revelation.  By this I understand his termas specifically to be the Golden Letters, Copper Letters, Agate Letters, Conch letters and Turquoise letters cycles, based on the index to the collection.

However, there are some texts which may have been bundled together with his termas, such as the four empowerments authored by Chetsun Senge Wangchuk, the Seventy-Four Fragments (which are a terma attributed to Chetsun), the Soaring Garuda of Śrī Simha, the so called Sems dmigs drug of Vimalamitra, The Seven-fold Trekchö, and so on which are included. However, some of these aforementioned texts are also found separately from the Volumes of the Vima Nyinthig. Thus, strictly speaking, for various reasons I consider the Vima Snyinthig to be comprised of the Golden Letters, Copper Letters, Agate Letters, Conch letters and Turquoise letters cycles, and therefore the termas of Zhangton.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 5:16 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There are two kinds of ultimate truths. Nominal 'emptiness' is a nominal ultimate truth, which refers to the absence of extremes in all phenomena, hence, 'emptiness' is in fact a conventional view. Nominal "emptiness" is not the non-enumerated ultimate truth, which is inexpressible.

gad rgyangs said:
and that is why N concluded his work by saying that the Buddha taught the Dharma for the abandonment of all views: not until all views (including emptiness) are abandoned, can one hope to glimpse the "inexpressible ultimate truth".

Malcolm wrote:
As long as we understand, as I pointed out at the very beginning here, that "all views" simply means views of existence and nonexistence.

Is it possible to express anything concerning this truth? Perhaps this:

"There is no distinction whatsoever between saṃsāra and nirvāṇa.
There is no distinction whatsoever between nirvāṇa and saṃsāra."
MMK 25.19
Or perhaps more apt:
This pair, samsara and nirvana, do not exist. 
However thorough knowledge of samsara is nirvana.
But of course, all of this concerns the objective state of phenomena, and not how we subjectively experience the path and its realization.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, June 4th, 2016 at 1:24 AM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:


heart said:
But it certainly seems he also received something from Chetsun, you have any idea what?

/magnus


Malcolm wrote:
Well, the account states he had a visionary meeting with Chetsun, but this was long after Chetsun attained rainbow body.

heart said:
Yes maybe, but for him to know about Chetsun he must have been known by him somehow or are you suggesting that he invented Chetsun?

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Chetsun was the teacher of Chegom Nagpo. Chegom Nagpo was the teacher of Zhangton. Zhangton spent one year with Chegom when he was eleven. His bio says:
...when he arrived, he met Guru Chegom Nagpo, Having pleased the guru, the latter said “Since this one is the arrival of an emanation of a buddha, you should give this one to me” and Tashi Dorje remained in his presence for one year.
As Zhangton says:

As such, thirty years later, having gone to the place where Chetsun disappeared, Chegom Nagpo of mNar mDa’ in Rong took out the outer, inner and secret oral lineage and the instruction was not promulgated to others apart from himself. These then spread widely in dBus and gTsang. Fifty years after the revelation by Chegom Nagpo, I [Tashi Dorje] removed these unsurpassed secret cycles and the instruction was not promulgated to others apart from myself.
After he left Chegom, he studied with 13 masters, and learned all Dharma topics, including secret mantra.

Zhangton Tashi Dorje was 18 when he revealed the Vima Nyinthig — this was eighty years after Chetsun took rainbow body. However, in Zhang's bio, after he revealed the Vima Nyinthig, it says:
Then, when he returned to gTsang, because he went up from Shangs and rTa nag, after he met with the siddha Senge Wangchuk on a bridge, he [Tashi Dorje] confirmed the ultimate three kāyas were inseparable, and having granted permission for the Dharma, [Senge Wangchuk] left and disappeared.
So basically, Zhangton received an entrustment of the teachings from Chetsun Senge Wangchuk in a vision. But they never met as two physical human beings. The relative connection between them was Chegom Nagpo.

BTW, these texts are directly from the Vima Nyinthig. This information was going to be part of my intro, but it was becoming too long. I have a book of Vima Nyinthig material, I will probably included it there. The later bios that state that Chetsun was the guru of Zhangton are not very precise. But the autobiography and the bios in the Vima Nyinthik itself are very precise and explain the situation very thoroughly. Not only did Zhangton have a visionary encounter with Chetsun Senge Wangchuk, he later had a visionary encounter with Vimalamitra:
After that, at one time when he [Tashi Dorje]  was invited to mTshur khungs by Loppon Nyergom. In the pre-dawn, when doing a ganacakra, he met Vimala, was blessed and granted permissions. [Vimala] left into the sky and disappeared. At that time Tashi Dorje was sixty-one years of age.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 10:54 PM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
So either there is more to "views to be abandoned" than just existence and non-existence, or emptiness must be a view of either existence or non-existence. Take your pick.

Malcolm wrote:
There are two kinds of ultimate truths. Nominal 'emptiness' is a nominal ultimate truth, which refers to the absence of extremes in all phenomena, hence, 'emptiness' is in fact a conventional view. Nominal "emptiness" is not the non-enumerated ultimate truth, which is inexpressible.

gad rgyangs said:
where does Nagarjuna say that there are "two kinds of ultimate truths"?

Malcolm wrote:
It is strongly implied by these two passage:
Those who do not know the 
the division of the two truths,
do not know the profound principle of 
the Buddha's teaching. 

Without depending on convention,
one cannot explain the ultimate meaning.
Without realizing the ultimate meaning, 
nirvana cannot be attained.
In the second passage above, the first two lines explain the nominal ultimate; the second two lines explain the ultimate of realization.

In the next passage he warns against leaving the explanation of the ultimate truth (emptiness) as an intellectual theory:
When emptiness is seen incorrectly, 
those of little wisdom are destroyed,
like one who handles a snake incorrectly,
or practices a vidyāmantra incorrectly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 9:57 PM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
So either there is more to "views to be abandoned" than just existence and non-existence, or emptiness must be a view of either existence or non-existence. Take your pick.

Malcolm wrote:
There are two kinds of ultimate truths. Nominal 'emptiness' is a nominal ultimate truth, which refers to the absence of extremes in all phenomena, hence, 'emptiness' is in fact a conventional view. Nominal "emptiness" is not the non-enumerated ultimate truth, which is inexpressible.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 8:47 PM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
pael said:
Can anyone read this book?

Malcolm wrote:
It is not a restructed publication, that said, you should try to gain dzogchen transmission and teachings. The book is meant for practitioners, like all such books.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 8:44 PM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:
heart said:
Ok, I can see the logic in that. I assume Tashi Dorje above is Zhangton, or is it Chetsun?

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Tashi Dorje is Zhangton.

M

heart said:
But it certainly seems he also received something from Chetsun, you have any idea what?

/magnus


Malcolm wrote:
Well, the account states he had a visionary meeting with Chetsun, but this was long after Chetsun attained rainbow body.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 7:59 AM
Title: Re: Seventh Root Downfall, Academia, Public Life
Content:
fckw said:
You might be wrong. Either about "vast majority" or about "public" and "openly accessible".

Malcolm wrote:
Well, the only think holding you back from reading the vast majority of "secret" Tibetan texts available to the Tibetan speaking public is knowledge of Tibetan.

fckw said:
So, in other words, these texts are "widely available" to a few scholars knowledgeable both in Sanskrit and old Tibetan dialects but not the average practitioner.

Malcolm wrote:
You seem to be forgetting all those Tibetans that actually speak Tibetan...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 7:16 AM
Title: Re: Germany is Germany!
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The climate change thing is an important factor: long term drought in Syria causes food shortages, which led to riots, etc...

Sherab Dorje said:
Source please...

Malcolm wrote:
Drought:
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/11/3241


Food:
http://phys.org/news/2015-10-role-food-prices-syrian-crisis.html

Riots:

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/commodities-traders-helped-spark-the-war-in-syria-complex-systems-theorists-say


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: Niece of Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Ani Muntso, an emanation of Yeshe Tsogyal
muntso.jpg (28.54 KiB) Viewed 1673 times


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 4:29 AM
Title: Re: Germany is Germany!
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Yeah the climate change explanation I've read for the Syrian conflict is pretty far fetched...especially when there's the glaringly obvious US foreign policy decisions that come into play.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/29/climate-change-syria-civil-war-prince-charles

Malcolm wrote:
The climate change thing is an important factor: long term drought in Syria causes food shortages, which led to riots, etc...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 4:08 AM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:
heart said:
Ok, I can see the logic in that. I assume Tashi Dorje above is Zhangton, or is it Chetsun?

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Tashi Dorje is Zhangton.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 3:49 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Maybe you can pass as a Syrian Refugee...

Sherab Dorje said:
Three months ago I could have.  Nowadays it is an easy way to get yourself shot.

Malcolm wrote:
Just kidding around, but it is worth it to get there somehow...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 3:41 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I strongly encourage anyone in Europe to make a connection with Tulku Dakpa. He lives in Finland and he is really an awesome guy. He is beginning a five year series on Longchenpa's Great Chariot in Finland in July.

Sherab Dorje said:
Sounds great.  Unfortunately for me Finland is 2600 kilometers away (1588 miles) and REALLY expensive (especially for an under/un-employed Greek).

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe you can pass as a Syrian Refugee...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 3:30 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Sherab Dorje said:
A bnargain!  Now all we need is for Malcolm to give us the lung and we're set!

Malcolm wrote:
You can ask Tulku Dagpa for the Lung, or any Lama who was present for the Gongpa Zangthal teachings in Poland, Virginia, or LA. Their pronunciation will be much better than mine.

M

Sherab Dorje said:
Yeah, like the accent will make a difference to me!

Malcolm wrote:
I strongly encourage anyone in Europe to make a connection with Tulku Dakpa. He lives in Finland and he is really an awesome guy. He is beginning a five year series on Longchenpa's Great Chariot in Finland in July.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 3:05 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa/Ngakma Teachers?
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
OG = Original Guru?

Malcolm wrote:
Original Gangster, respect.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 3:03 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
tomamundsen said:
It comes out to $20.97 after the discount. I found out because I forgot to apply my discount code and then emailed the publisher directly.

Sherab Dorje said:
A bnargain!  Now all we need is for Malcolm to give us the lung and we're set!

Malcolm wrote:
You can ask Tulku Dagpa for the Lung, or any Lama who was present for the Gongpa Zangthal teachings in Poland, Virginia, or LA. Their pronunciation will be much better than mine.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 1:18 AM
Title: Re: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Sherab Dorje said:
Is there somewhere I can download a pirated copy of it?

Malcolm wrote:
Undoubtedly, there will be.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 1:17 AM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
the Vima Nyinthig is never considered terma, though it is in fact.

heart said:
What is the fact that makes it a terma?

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Well, there is the fact that Zhangton says so:
As such, thirty years later, having gone to the place where lCe bTsun disappeared lCe sGom Nag po of mNar mDa’ in Rong took out the outer, inner and secret oral lineage and the instruction was not promulgated to others apart from himself. These then spread widely in dBus and gTsang. Fifty years after the revelation by lCe sGom, I removed these unsurpassed secret cycles and the instruction was not promulgated to others apart from myself.

And his biography states:
After that, when he was living in the region of Sna khu in upper Nyang, before dawn there was a loud noise. Having arisen, he looked and in the sky there were rainbows, whorls of shimmering light, ḍākā and ḍākinīs, Mahākarunika, Tārā and the gurus of the past giving a prediction, “Listen! Amazing! The intimate instruction of buddhahood in a single life, the Dzogchen unsurpassed secret cycle is in a cliff that resembles a lion. The removal of that will have countless benefits for sentient beings.  The Dharma that is enough to meet is amazing, just amazing!” and then they disappeared. 

It is said that when he was eighteen years, Tashi Dorje did not understand the prediction. That evening, after thinking it over, a man wearing a white hat said to Tashi Dorje, “You will be given siddhi, go!”. 

That morning before dawn, [the man wearing a white hat] said “Go!”

Having left, that evening he arrived at Tsha ba Nyi ma mdar in lower Nyang. There were a group of many monks wearing yellow. Having sat, since he was given much food and drink, he wondered “That year there was a great famine. Should those be called siddhis?” 

Again at dawn [the man wearing a white hat] said “Go!”

Those monks were drinking a lot of alcohol, and having many dharma conversations, and it is said that they were content in prajñā, hearing and contemplation. 

Then, at noon he arrived somewhere, but he did not recognize the path. Again, he was guided by an upāsaka with a white hat. In the evening he arrived at sTag thabs, and just as he was lying down in an empty house, [the man wearing a white hat] said “Do not stay here, leave now!” and as soon as Tashi Dorje left the door, the house collapsed. 

That evening, a great rain occurred, and so that night he stayed under an overhanging cliff. The [the man wearing a white hat] emanation brought a lot of food and drink. 

Then, having crossed Rva lag tshugs, though there was a disturbance in the lower end of ‘O yug, since the emanation was fearless, on the day he reached “O yug, Tashi Dorje was extremely hungry and was given food by all the ladies who were cutting wood. Then he left and arrived at the base of a cliff that resembled a lion. After he became lost, he could not find it. He looked everywhere, but could not find it. He stayed because he could not return. Since he looked in the index, from the door where good grass was growing, in his hand he had a sharp weapon. Because he struck that [grass], the inside was revealed. Since he went inside, after sunrise he stayed in the center of a mandala. Since he dug with the sharp weapon, there was a mass of snakes and frogs all together. Having gradually cleared them away, he emerged above, and looked around, thinking in in his mind “Dharma is my expertise. If there is wealth, I will be happy.” Then, after producing one hundred and eight indexes, he danced from great joy. 

After that, he wrapped them all with a leather cord, and he looked in the cave of the valley. He could not see anything after dusk. At that time, again the upasaka brought light, food and drink and as soon as he looked at the books, the sound of a very terrifying voice arose in front of the door. “He is the emanation predicted for this, but older sister does not know him” and “I will and bring older sister.”
After that, at certain times, there were very terrifying voices, thinking that the cave was going to collapse, since his eyes fluttered, in front of the cave there was an an extremely terrifying eye the size of a skillet, a mouth of boiling blood, baring a single fang, of which he was frightened. He wondered why he was encountering this? 

Again, as in the prediction above, since he was not known by the older sister, she said:

I am Ekajati.
Offer one hundred and eight ganapujas.
Explain nothing for three years. 

Then she departed. That upāsaka with the white hat was Upāska Vajrasadhu. 

He blocked the entrance of the cave. Since there was a small piece of turquoise, with one man he offered cow meat and three bushels of barely for one hundred and eight feasts. 

In Nyang rTag rJed, he was greatly served by a faithful  benefactress named Shag mo dKar mTsho, and he was able to write down the books completely.
This is why I think so.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 12:58 AM
Title: Buddhahood in This Life
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Hi all,

I just wanted to let anyone who is interested know that they can order my book, Buddhahood in This Life, from Wisdom Publications at a 30% discount directly from Wisdom using this link, http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/buddhahood-life, and the discount code: BLPD16. By doing so, you will very likely receive it earlier than the official Amazon date of 12/6/16, perhaps by as much as a month.

Thanks,

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 12:21 AM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The supreme material treasure is the energetic treasure of space that is the universe from the perspective of the its inhabitants, it fulfills hopes like a wish-fulfilling gem...

dzogchungpa said:
Nice, I guess we are all tertons

May I ask what 'energetic' corresponds to in the Tibetan?

Malcolm wrote:
rtsal


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: How do you feel about Buddhists getting involved in politics?
Content:
Virgo said:
Of course, you have to fight for your rights ...
Kevin


Malcolm wrote:
if (typeof bbmedia == 'undefined') { bbmedia = true; var e = document.createElement('script'); e.async = true; e.src = 'bbmedia.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s); }
https://phpbbex.com/ [video]


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, June 3rd, 2016 at 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:
dzogchungpa said:
Apparently the whole universe is a terma, so the first terton would be ...


Malcolm wrote:
Guru Chowang in fact does make that identification.

dzogchungpa said:
Oh, that's interesting. What does he say?

Malcolm wrote:
The supreme material treasure is the energetic treasure of space that is the universe from the perspective of the its inhabitants, it fulfills hopes like a wish-fulfilling gem...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2016 at 11:59 PM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:
Iconodule said:
Wouldn't the first Terton be technically whoever discovered the Mahayana sutras (hidden in the Naga realm for 500 years)?


Malcolm wrote:
Well, this in an interesting point. I think we can say Sangye Lama was among the first tertons working with Guru Padsmabhava material, for sure. Most people consider termas to be teachings concealed by either Guru Rinpoche or the 25 disciples. For example, technically speaking, the Barchey Kunsel cycle was not concealed by Guru P, but rather by those disciples who heard that teaching.

Or, with Gongpa Zangthal, the cave of Zang Zag Lha drag was a place where people such as Padmasambhava, Mutig Tsenpo, Yeshe Tsogyal and so on would visit and conceal this and that teaching in five chambered casket taken out by Rigzin Godem.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2016 at 11:58 PM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:
Iconodule said:
Wouldn't the first Terton be technically whoever discovered the Mahayana sutras (hidden in the Naga realm for 500 years)?

dzogchungpa said:
Apparently the whole universe is a terma, so the first terton would be ...


Malcolm wrote:
Guru Chowang in fact does make that identification.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2016 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:
aussiebloke said:
There is a Tsasum Dilrup that has been given many times by Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche , I seem to remember it being a rediscovered terma  of Khyentse Wangpo originally from Sangye Lingpa , the first terton.

Malcolm wrote:
That is Sangye Lama, not Sangye Lingpa, and his claim to being the "first" terton (1000-1080 is a little arguable, since he had a younger contemporary, Trapa Ngonshe (1010-1090), who was also a terton.

Amazingly, Zhangton Tashi Dorje is always over looked in the lists of tertons, because for some strange reason, the Vima Nyinthig is never considered terma, though it is in fact.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2016 at 10:42 PM
Title: Re: Germany is Germany!
Content:


Norwegian said:
Things will not improve. It will only get worse.

Malcolm wrote:
Meanwhile the US deports 1,000 hardworking people every day.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2016 at 7:03 PM
Title: Re: Seventh Root Downfall, Academia, Public Life
Content:


Kushi said:
All of this said - I still don't want to violate the trust of a teacher, or be engaged in behavior which is viewed as unambiguously unacceptable by the tradition as a whole, while simultaneously being a vow holder.

Malcolm wrote:
The tradition as a whole seems to be in support of publishing texts in English to make them available to a practitioner public.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2016 at 7:01 PM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
BuddhaFollower said:
[


Where does nonarising fit into this?

Malcolm wrote:
When existence of something cannot be established, how can one establish its arising?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, June 2nd, 2016 at 9:45 AM
Title: Re: Ngakpa/Ngakma Teachers?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
OG Ngakpa


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 10:49 PM
Title: Re: Ngakpa/Ngakma Teachers?
Content:
Sherab Dorje said:
Just find yourself a Throma Nagmo empowerment (with all the optional extras) and you'll be set!

If you were in Europe I would invite you to the one I am hosting in July with Loppon Ogyan Tanzin, unfortunately for you, you are in the U$A.


Malcolm wrote:
Pema Dorje will be giving Troma this summer in a couple of places.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 9:19 PM
Title: Re: Seventh Root Downfall, Academia, Public Life
Content:
Indrajala said:
Keep in mind that the vast majority of Buddhist Tantric materials, be it in Sanskrit, Tibetan or Chinese, are now in the public domain and openly accessible.

fckw said:
You might be wrong. Either about "vast majority" or about "public" and "openly accessible".

Malcolm wrote:
Well, the only think holding you back from reading the vast majority of "secret" Tibetan texts available to the Tibetan speaking public is knowledge of Tibetan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 9:03 PM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
Ok so if we can forgive Malcolm for muddying the waters by claiming that statements of the order "I like ice cream" are views, and can agree that views are "theories about the nature of reality", then do you agree with Nagarjuna that the Buddha taught the dharma for the abandonment of all views?

Malcolm wrote:
I did not claim that my friend, you did. I said at the outset that the "views" Nāgārjuna was critiquing were views of existence and nonexistence. If you respond, this is not all he was critiquing, that he was critiquing the four extremes, the second two extremes are merely repetitions of the first two: i.e., to say that something both exists and does not exits, is just a view of existence. To say that something neither exists nor does not exist, is just a view of nonexistence.

In the end, Nāgārjuna was aiming at views of permanence and annihilation, existence or nonexistence, which is why the only sūtra he cites in the whole MMK is the Inquiry of Kaśyapa. When the Buddha made such an argument against "yasti" and "nasti," he did so with respect to how things exist objectively. Thus it is entirely accurate to state that Madhyamaka is the study of the objective state of reality, whether or not there is such an objective state, a reality, and so on, or not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 6:26 AM
Title: Re: Karma Nyingtik
Content:
aussiebloke said:
Hello all
Do any of you yogis practice this cycle of teachings ?
Can you PM me if you do.
Many thanks
John


Malcolm wrote:
It is basically just a Vimalamitra Guru yoga, a supplement to the Vima Nyinthig.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 6:25 AM
Title: Re: How did Milarepa do it?
Content:


BuddhaFollower said:
What kind of Dzogchen was available to Milarepa at the time?

Malcolm wrote:
Man ngag sde, for sure.

For example, most people have not understood that the song of the guidance of the six bardos is directly based on Dzogchen teachings. There is no teaching of four or six bardos outside of Dzogchen, not even in the Nyingma tantra cycles of Mahayoga and Anuyoga. The four or six bardos are based on man ngag sde.

BuddhaFollower said:
Where does Milarepa refer to the bardo of dharmata?

Also, this a new position of yours.  You previously said Milarepa had access to what has become known as semde:

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=16308&p=229664&hilit=sems+sde+Milarepa#p229664

Malcolm wrote:
Read that song carefully, you will see it. The translation is very unclear of course.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 6:24 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
Bakmoon said:
gad rgyangs, I really think you are making a big fuss over what boils down to a semantic issue. According to you, what is the definition of the word "view" when Nagarjuna says he has no views?

Does this mean that he has no assertions about anything or that he makes no positive statements about anything whatsoever? That's problematic because his writings make positive assertions all the time.

What I gather from Malcolm here is that the correct and more restricted sense of the term 'view' in this context is ontological views, not conventional views about how things function in a worldly sense.

gad rgyangs said:
Malcolm just said that to say "The Buddha is the best of teachers" is a view. so wtf are you talking about? I agree that views in madhyamaka texts do not mean "a statement of any kind" but rather a theory about the nature of reality. It is these that are to be abandoned, including the notion of emptiness, for as MMK says at 22.11

"Empty" should not be asserted.
"Non-empty" should not be asserted.
Neither both nor neither should be asserted.
They are only used nominally. (MK 22: 11)

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe this is not such a good translation, since assertions can be only be used nominally.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 6:23 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
I agree that views in madhyamaka texts do not mean "a statement of any kind" but rather a theory about the nature of reality.

Malcolm wrote:
Which is strange for you to say that now, since when I made the same observation above, you complained that no, in fact, "all views" was to be taken literally.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 6:12 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
That is, we do not want to turn essencelessness itself into an essence.

Malcolm wrote:
Guess both Candrakīrti and Dzogchen blew it then, since both use this term, "essenceless essence."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 5:39 AM
Title: Re: How did Milarepa do it?
Content:
smcj said:
I think the passage just cited makes it clear that Milarepa's Dzogchen practice was a failure.

Malcolm wrote:
Hahahaha, you think that was the only opportunity he had to practice and study Dzogchen? Milarepa studied with ten Nyingma teachers before he met Marpa, and did many years of retreat after Marpa passed on.

I don't think you can conclude his practice of Dzogchen was a failure at all. Why do you think he says he was "stabbed in the back by Dzogchen?"

smcj said:
As Cone and I have both been asking, other than that one song, can anybody find anything in his bio or other literature that substantiates that idea? If not then The last we hear of Dzogchen in Mila's story is his admitting failure and being motivated by that failure to start seeking out Marpa.

Malcolm wrote:
You have not carefully studied Mila's songs. For example, as I just pointed out, the scheme of the six barods is lifted directly from Dzogchen Man ngag sde.

The of course there is the song of the Dying Bonpo, where he treats themes of the great perfection quite explicitly.

But part of the problem is that you are not familiar with the teachings of Dzogchen, and so do not recognize them when they occur in Mila's songs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 5:38 AM
Title: Re: How did Milarepa do it?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Hahahaha, you think that was the only opportunity he had to practice and study Dzogchen? Milarepa studied with ten Nyingma teachers

BuddhaFollower said:
What kind of Dzogchen was available to Milarepa at the time?

Malcolm wrote:
Man ngag sde, for sure.

For example, most people have not understood that the song of the guidance of the six bardos is directly based on Dzogchen teachings. There is no teaching of four or six bardos outside of Dzogchen, not even in the Nyingma tantra cycles of Mahayoga and Anuyoga. The four or six bardos are based on man ngag sde.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 5:30 AM
Title: Re: How did Milarepa do it?
Content:
smcj said:
We can conclude that Milarepa had knowledge of and practiced both.
I think the passage just cited makes it clear that Milarepa's Dzogchen practice was a failure.

Malcolm wrote:
Hahahaha, you think that was the only opportunity he had to practice and study Dzogchen? Milarepa studied with ten Nyingma teachers before he met Marpa, and did many years of retreat after Marpa passed on.

I don't think you can conclude his practice of Dzogchen was a failure at all. Why do you think he says he was "stabbed in the back by Dzogchen?"


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 5:21 AM
Title: Re: Seventh Root Downfall, Academia, Public Life
Content:
Quay said:
Yes you can do both, put food on the table and respect the secrecy aspects of what you are studying. It comes down to motivation and what you are telling your students in class and your peers in papers. It might be good to emphasize that you are teaching and studying something that is a living tradition, something very much alive and of great importance to other people. It is not like a study of Attic Greek or the Latin of ancient Rome where he likelihood of causing offense is remote.

I had a chance to reflect on HH Dalai Lama's words that Malcolm summarizes, where the former "...discerned that in our modern society, secrecy creates hostility and suspicion." This seems a wise view in our increasingly crowded and linked-together world. You can teach things already in the public domain if you note they are not museum pieces but rather living practices of great importance to many. Respect for the field of study is always a good thing & not to treat it as an abstract notion.

Of course if you engage in the practices yourself your whole life and mind may change & you may find yourself in a different situation if not dilemma, but that's true for any intense Vajrayana practices.


Malcolm wrote:
We also need to bear in mind that we are, as a society, a great deal more literate than societies were 1000 years ago in general. As such, while our modernism may give rise to a certain level of conceptual complexity which can be a obstacle for sure, on the other hand, the learning curve is lower since literacy is not a barrier at all. If literacy forms a barrier, it is because we are very conditioned by our world view, and it then becomes very hard to overcome our education in science and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 5:17 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
For example, he clearly held the view that Buddha was the best of all teachers. If that is not a view, I don't know what is.

cloudburst said:
agree


Malcolm wrote:
It seems for our friend Dante, however, that holding that Buddha was the best of teachers was merely an "expedient."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 5:16 AM
Title: Re: How did Milarepa do it?
Content:
smcj said:
So can we provisionally conclude that, after meeting Marpa, Milarepa's practice was predominantly Mahamudra oriented and not Dzogchen oriented?

Malcolm wrote:
We can conclude that Milarepa had knowledge of and practiced both.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 3:22 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I never maintained that N had no views at all. I have always maintained that he had no view concerning existence and nonexistence.

For example, he clearly held the view that Buddha was the best of all teachers. If that is not a view, I don't know what is.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, June 1st, 2016 at 2:15 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
Its good to see you have finally accepted this.
I never maintained that N had no views at all. I have always maintained that he had no view concerning existence and nonexistence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 10:17 PM
Title: Re: Seventh Root Downfall, Academia, Public Life
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
That is not the point of this discussion.

Sherab Dorje said:
So why don't you just humor me (and Karma Yeshe).


Malcolm wrote:
You are not the OP.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 10:17 PM
Title: Re: Seventh Root Downfall, Academia, Public Life
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
That is not the point of this discussion.

Sherab Dorje said:
So why don't you just humor me (and Karma Yeshe)....HHDL has already pointed out that is a flawed approach.
And his reasoning was (please link if you cannot be  bothered explaining)?

Malcolm wrote:
You can read up on his reasoning in the Kalacakra Initiation book. To summarize, he discerned that in our modern society, secrecy creates hostility and suspicion.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: Seventh Root Downfall, Academia, Public Life
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You cannot divulge someone else's practice, only they can do this.

Sherab Dorje said:
So if I know your practice and tell it to somebody else...

Malcolm wrote:
That is not the point of this discussion. The point is in terms of general samayas: what is appropriate for academic scholars to reveal and what is not.

If you take a strict approach, nothing should be discussed. But as I mentioned above, HHDL has already pointed out that is a flawed approach.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 10:00 PM
Title: Re: Seventh Root Downfall, Academia, Public Life
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The Dalai Lama has already weighed in on this subject, and he has stated with great clarity that at this point in time, Vajrayāna secrecy is more harmful than helpful. That being said, no one asserts that one must or even should divulge one's own practice.

You cannot divulge someone else's practice, only they can do this.

Moreover, in some schools, but not all, there is the principle of self-secrecy, that is, things only make sense if you have received instruction in this or that practice, something you cannot get from a book.

In general, Greg, there are no secrets anymore. It has all been published. Not every detail of every cycle of practice, but there is very little difference between one cycle and another in terms of the general outlines of creation and completion stage.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 9:39 PM
Title: Re: Seventh Root Downfall, Academia, Public Life
Content:
Kushi said:
I ask because I do seem to encounter people with a more hardline view, i.e, that non-initiates of all types are forbidden from hearing the technical details of practice, seeing the mandala, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
This is the traditional Indian way, but much has changed.

This is largely a show among Tibetans, since you can walk into any Tibetan monastery and see all the Yidams, Mandalas, implements and so on, since Vajrayāna is the state religion of Tibet.

Then there is the hilarity of the fact that Tibetans keep secret things that have been a normal part of Indian life for generation, things like prāṇāyama, mudras, etc.

In the end, it is up to you.

For myself, I don't really discuss details of practice or the particulars of what I practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 6:46 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
All views can be summarized in two.

And if what you assert is true, than Nāgārjuna is a fool, because he advocates all kinds of views in various texts. So, either you have misinterpreted what he means by "views" (my opinion), or he is an idiot who contradicts himself.

gad rgyangs said:
he also says 8.8
Emptiness is taught by the conquerors as the expedient to get rid of all views.
But those for whom emptiness is a view have been called incurable.
I think that might help clarify things for you. His "views" as you call them are, by his own admission, "expedients" AKA useful fictions. And what are they useful for? For geting rid of all views, of course. Its really not complicated because he tells you exactly what he means.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't need you to clarify anything for me. That said, you yourself fail what you believe to be Nāgārjuna;s main thesis, that all views are to be eliminated since you hold this as a view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 6:24 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
"All views" here is summarized as two in chapter fifteen: i.e. substantial existence and nonexistence.

gad rgyangs said:
"all views" is "sarvadṛṣṭi". the word "dṛṣṭi" does not appear in Chapter 15, please explain where in that chapter he is claiming that existence and non-existence "summarize" sarvadṛṣṭi.

perhaps you mean 15.10?
"It exists" is an eternalist view: "It does not exist" is an annihilationist idea.
Therefore the wise one should not have recourse to either existence or nonexistence.
or 15.6
Intrinsic nature and extrinsic nature, existent and nonexistent-
who see these do not see the truth of the Buddha's teachings.
wait thats already 4 things he's rejecting. In fact, the entire MMK is about rejecting views, not just two. In fact its about rejecting all views, just like he says.

Malcolm wrote:
All views can be summarized in two.

And if what you assert is true, than Nāgārjuna is a fool, because he advocates all kinds of views in various texts. So, either you have misinterpreted what he means by "views" (my opinion), or he is an idiot who contradicts himself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 5:33 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
He states in the VV that he has no propositions/thesis concerning svabhāva as defined by his opponents. He does not say he has no views at all. Madhyamaka is not a simple minded "I have no view" proposition.

gad rgyangs said:
then why does the MMK end thusly? MMK 27.30:
I salute Gautama, who, based on compassion,
taught the true Dharma for the abandonment of all views.

Malcolm wrote:
"All views" here is summarized as two in chapter fifteen: i.e. substantial existence and nonexistence.

It is not like the position of Sañjaya Belaṭṭhiputta.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 4:39 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
And I disagree about Bhavya: he got it about as wrong as you possible could, with his insistence that Madhyamaka should be making positive statements about the nature of reality.

Malcolm wrote:
He never does this.

gad rgyangs said:
you know very well the whole svatantra vs prasanga thing is about this very issue.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the whole svatantra/prasanga debate is about whether one needs a formal syllogism to prove emptiness to opponents. The difference between the two is merely didactic, not substantive.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 4:38 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
nowhere is he saying that either dependence or emptiness are "the reality of phenomena". They are both dependent designations, i.e. useful fictions which help us to walk the middle path between extremes of asserting a reality of phenomena and denying that there are phenomena at all.

Malcolm wrote:
He is saying precisely that the reality of phenomena is dependent origination and emptiness, depending on which way one is seeing things.

For example, in the 70 he says:
The nature of all things is empty.
For what reason? The nature of all things
is an assembly of causes and conditions.
or, because there is neither being nor nonbeing
in each and every thing, they are empty
He is here declaring that the nature or reality (the state of being pertaining to things) of all things is emptiness.

He says,
Having realized things are empty,
one will not be confused because of seeing correctly

gad rgyangs said:
He clearly says in the VV that he has no view to defend. Do you think he was wrong about himself?

Malcolm wrote:
He states in the VV that he has no propositions/thesis concerning svabhāva as defined by his opponents. He does not say he has no views at all. For example, he clearly states in the MMK that he prefers the Sammitya view of karma.

Your claim is similar to the mistaken assertion made by some who claim that Candrakirti never resorts to syllogisms, which in fact he clearly does in the opening lines of the MAV. What Candra disputes is not syllogistic reasoning in its entirety, but rather, syllogistic reasoning applied to emptiness.

Likewise, he clearly asserts the view in the VV that there is no svabhāva in phenomena. Madhyamaka is not a simple minded "I have no view" proposition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
And I disagree about Bhavya: he got it about as wrong as you possible could, with his insistence that Madhyamaka should be making positive statements about the nature of reality.

Malcolm wrote:
He never does this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 2:47 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
nowhere is he saying that either dependence or emptiness are "the reality of phenomena". They are both dependent designations, i.e. useful fictions which help us to walk the middle path between extremes of asserting a reality of phenomena and denying that there are phenomena at all.

Malcolm wrote:
He is saying precisely that the reality of phenomena is dependent origination and emptiness, depending on which way one is seeing things.

For example, in the 70 he says:
The nature of all things is empty.
For what reason? The nature of all things
is an assembly of causes and conditions.
or, because there is neither being nor nonbeing
in each and every thing, they are empty
He is here declaring that the nature or reality (the state of being pertaining to things) of all things is emptiness.

He says,
Having realized things are empty,
one will not be confused because of seeing correctly


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 2:14 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
gad rgyangs said:
That would be fine except it is a fundamental misreading of Nagarjuna. All descriptions of reality including "empty" are nothing but (perhaps) useful fictions, and should in no way be taken as "objective states of phenomena". As soon as you say "X is the reality of phenomena" then you have fallen into an extreme.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, then you have to fault Nāgārjuna on two points: he states that dependent origination is the reality of phenomena, and he states that emptiness is the reality of all phenomena.

After all:
That which arises in dependence, 
that is explained as emptiness, 
that is designated in dependence, 
that is the middle way.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 1:34 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You claimed that reality was not objective.

gad rgyangs said:
no, I said reality cannot be described as having an "objective state", as you claim:


Malcolm wrote:
I never said reality "had an objective state," nevertheless, reality, since it applies to all phenomena, whatever it may be, can be considered an objective state for the purpose of discussion. For example, if all phenomena are empty, the objective state of all phenomena is empty, and that is their reality.

In other words, Dante, you are wasting time quibbling over nothing.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, May 31st, 2016 at 12:35 AM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
smcj said:
The reason "Wisdom", with all its Buddha qualities, is NOT subject to Madhyamaka analysis is exactly because it is non-manifest and cannot be taken as an object of consciousness.

Malcolm wrote:
What does "non-manifest" mean? Does that mean it is invisible?

smcj said:
Yes
Not accessible to the six senses?
Yes
How does this non-manifest wisdom differ from the horns of a rabbit?
Because it is full of Buddha-qualities,  is the source of the Rupakayas, and is a source of Refuge.

Malcolm wrote:
And people wonder why lower vehicles are just intellectual speculations...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, May 30th, 2016 at 11:47 PM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:
smcj said:
The reason "Wisdom", with all its Buddha qualities, is NOT subject to Madhyamaka analysis is exactly because it is non-manifest and cannot be taken as an object of consciousness.

Malcolm wrote:
What does "non-manifest" mean? Does that mean it is invisible? Not accessible to the six senses? How does this non-manifest wisdom differ from the horns of a rabbit?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, May 30th, 2016 at 11:45 PM
Title: Re: The real meaning of Madhyamaka and Yogacara
Content:


gad rgyangs said:
No, I said:

Malcolm wrote:
Your statement is a flat out self-contradiction.

gad rgyangs said:
and the contradiction is...?

Malcolm wrote:
You claimed that reality was not objective.


