﻿Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 1:22 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
boda said:
...faith is valued over reason.

Malcolm wrote:
Not in Buddhadharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 1:00 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:


tkp67 said:
Did Shakyamuni's compassion differ before his enlightenment as opposed to afterwards?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. But this is irrelevant to the question before us.

tkp67 said:
No it isn't.

Malcolm wrote:
Of course it is. Buddhas have no perception of impure sentient beings at all, therefore, their compassion has no object. But this is beside the point. Start a new topic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 12:58 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:



tkp67 said:
And Brahma Viharas are just qualities,

Malcolm wrote:
The Brahma viharas are practices.


tkp67 said:
So If one believes the mind can manifest an illusionary reality that requires liberation one is not an atheist according to how atheism is expressed as a function in the world one lives in.

Malcolm wrote:
You are apparently rather hard of hearing: to be in an atheist is one thing. To be follower of ATHEISM is another. The first is a simple absence of belief. An absence of belief in what? An absence of belief in a supreme being who creates the universe, etc. The second is an ideological position, a view, and a school. One needn't belong to the latter in order to be the former.

I am an atheist. I don't much care what you think about that.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 12:46 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:


tkp67 said:
Did Shakyamuni's compassion differ before his enlightenment as opposed to afterwards?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. But this is irrelevant to the question before us.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 12:44 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:


tkp67 said:
I don't need a citation to question the limits of belief that does not in and of itself define Buddhism or Buddhist practices. Neither atheism, theism or agnosticism are synonyms for Buddhism. Now please falsify the statement I made. Platitudes will do no good here.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhism is atheist. That's an adjective, not a noun. The claim is not that Buddhism is Atheism. The claim is that Buddhism is atheist.

tkp67 said:
Technically atheism is a derivative of deity. Technically if there is no independent existence so the past predicates the present. Technically brahma practices led to future brahma marks and brahma sounds the interpreted voices of the buddha***. To separate belief in the realms from any existence (the buddha's or otherwise) is to deny Shakyamuni's the cause of his provisional existence and the effect of his existence.


Malcolm wrote:
No, that is not what the sixty-toned voice of Brahma means. It is just a metaphor.

To be an atheist means that one does not believe in God. Do you believe in God? If so, you are not an atheist. I do not believe in God, so I am an atheist. As far as I am concerned, Buddhadharma is atheist. YMMV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 12:42 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Matt J said:
That is not really Wallace's point in the article.

If we were to discuss the Samghogakaya, Samantabhadra, Pure lands and pure vision with Lawrence Krauss and Daniel Dennett, I doubt we would be on the same page.

Malcolm wrote:
So basically, you are claiming that to be an atheist is necessarily to be a physicalist along the model of Dennet, etc.

Samantabhadra is not some external buddha in a concrete sense, other than as a symbolic name for the realization of dharmakāya. Sambhogakāya likewise is just a name for realized speech, but it does not exist somewhere "out there." Buddhafields are just other planets and dimensions that have been "prepared" in some fashion by a bodhisattva on the stages.

But none of these were created by an omnipotent supreme being; moreover, our liberation does not depend on our relationship with some "savior," unlike theistic religions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 11th, 2021 at 12:03 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:


tkp67 said:
I don't need a citation to question the limits of belief that does not in and of itself define Buddhism or Buddhist practices. Neither atheism, theism or agnosticism are synonyms for Buddhism. Now please falsify the statement I made. Platitudes will do no good here.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhism is atheist. That's an adjective, not a noun. The claim is not that Buddhism is Atheism. The claim is that Buddhism is atheist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 8:19 PM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:


PeterC said:
I don't get why people feel the need to get upset when it's pointed out that the Buddhadharma really has almost no common ground with most other religions.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, if you’re an atheist, you must be a communist. And there is a new red scare going around.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 8:17 PM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:


Norwegian said:
is so wrong that it's actually embarrassing to read. The entire article is sad. The fact that someone like Wallace can say these things is flat out astounding.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, it is embarrassing, but it is common error from insufficient study of the original tantras and related instructions of ati yoga.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 10:06 AM
Title: Re: In what sense is the brain and consciousness not just biochemicals
Content:



Johnny Dangerous said:
Well, it's knowable in terms of Gnosis/Jnana in Buddhist terms, but outside of specific Buddhist notions of truth, it is self evident that inference is based on subjective experience, what else would it be based on?

Malcolm wrote:
Inference and direct perceptions can be confirmed by second parties. This is the basis for empiricism.

For example, I see smoke, and infer there is a fire. I tell another there is smoke, and thus, there must be a fire. They investigate, confirm there is a fire and let me know that indeed my inference was correct. Hence, there was a fire which produced smoke, and it occurred independently of my specific experience of it.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Second parties are also using their subjective experience, I get why this applies to general truth claims wrt to relative phenomena, but I don't see how it applies here.

Malcolm wrote:
External phenomena are necessary for subjective experience: for example, the blindness of certain dwelling animals due to an inherited trait related to absence of visual stimulation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 9:45 AM
Title: Re: In what sense is the brain and consciousness not just biochemicals
Content:
Tata1 said:
If there is something as objective phenomena its unknownable in principle since all we know is through subjective experience.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a fallacy. If this were the case, anumana, inference, would be impossible, as well as the authority of direct perception.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Well, it's knowable in terms of Gnosis/Jnana in Buddhist terms, but outside of specific Buddhist notions of truth, it is self evident that inference is based on subjective experience, what else would it be based on?

Malcolm wrote:
Inference and direct perceptions can be confirmed by second parties. This is the basis for empiricism.

For example, I see smoke, and infer there is a fire. I tell another there is smoke, and thus, there must be a fire. They investigate, confirm there is a fire and let me know that indeed my inference was correct. Hence, there was a fire which produced smoke, and it occurred independently of my specific experience of it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 6:48 AM
Title: Re: In what sense is the brain and consciousness not just biochemicals
Content:
Tata1 said:
If there is something as objective phenomena its unknownable in principle since all we know is through subjective experience.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a fallacy. If this were the case, anumana, inference, would be impossible, as well as the authority of direct perception.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 4:04 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Brahma said:
In Christianity it is said that God created everything, including man, and there is a distinction made between the creator and the creature. The creature is something created by God. When I look at a rose, a tulip, or a chrysanthemum, I know, I see, I think, that this flower is a creation of God. Because I have been practicing as a Buddhist, I know that between the creator and the created there must be some kind of link, otherwise creation would not be possible. So the chrysanthemum can say that God is a flower, and I agree, because there must be the element "flower" in God so that the flower could become a reality. So the flower has the right to say that God is a flower.

Malcolm wrote:
He is actually criticizing theism in this passage. Theists maintain there is a first cause, an unmoved mover, a creator who exists apart from its creation. Here,  THT is actually engaging in what most Christians since the 3rd century CE would classically consider a heresy.

He is making that point that there must be some link between a cause and its effect, so in this respect, he is rejecting the the idea of the uncompounded creator. There are many arguments in Buddhadharma against such an uncompounded creator, which I am sure he knows well. So in this passage he is trying to lead this person into a Buddhist view. If you accept that a creator is not separate from its creation; it follows the creator, like the creation, must arise from a cause. If a creator arises from a cause, then what kind of a creator is this? Such a creator is just a noncreator, since it too is created from a cause, and is in fact an effect.

He is also saying that people tend to see ultimate principles in their own image: flowers see flowers as ultimate, etc. But it is not a defense of theism in Buddhadharma at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 3:57 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Matt J said:
I think this is a bad definition of atheism, appearing to be designed (like with PeterC's) to exclude Buddhism. I doubt most atheists would agree that Tibetan Buddhism is atheistic, and we have at least two well established and respected teachers cited here who deny it (and probably more, especially if we were to delve into East Asian variants), showing that perhaps it is not as "profoundly" atheistic as suggested?

I mean, would any atheist really pray to Buddha to be born into heaven?

tkp67 said:
Making buddhism atheist also makes it secular.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it’s just a recognition of a fact: buddhadharma does not recognize ex nihilo creation by a supreme being, a key feature of all theistic traditions. Samkhya, Jainism, and so on are also atheist traditions.

There is no God, no creator, etc. in Buddhadharma. Therefore, Buddhadharma has to be atheist.  You seem to think that being an atheist is equivalent to being logical positivist in the mold of Bernard Russel.

One can be an atheist and still accept other kinds of non-falsifiable phenomena. The term non-theist is, in my opinion, a copout.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 3:50 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:


Matt J said:
I mean, would any atheist really pray to Buddha to be born into heaven?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhists don’t pray to  Buddha to be reborn in heaven.

SilenceMonkey said:
Some do, at least in Theravadin countries.

Malcolm wrote:
This is a result of ignorance, but it not supported in Buddhadharma. The only way to be reborn in higher realms is through adhering to virtuous conduct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 2:59 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:


Matt J said:
I mean, would any atheist really pray to Buddha to be born into heaven?

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhists don’t pray to  Buddha to be reborn in heaven.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 12:53 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Brahma said:
Buddha said that if you believe in God, you could be His Disciple, and also if you didn't profess to beleive in God, you could be His Disciple.

PeterC said:
Which sutra are you citing here?

Malcolm wrote:
The latest entry in Fake Buddha Quotes, apparently.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 12:52 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Brahma said:
Buddha said that if you believe in God, you could be His Disciple, and also if you didn't profess to beleive in God, you could be His Disciple.

Malcolm wrote:
No, the Buddha never made such a statement at all. In fact, if one takes refuge in the Buddha, one must relinquish all other refuges. This is very clearly taught buy the Buddha.

Brahma said:
One of the major purposes of Buddhism is to bring atheists and agnostic philosophers to theism, and many modern Buddhists do this openly. Take Thich Nhat Hanh who openly talks about God, and His beleif in God. Do you beleive He is not Enlightened?

Malcolm wrote:
This is complete and utter nonsense.

Brahma said:
Take Thich Nhat Hanh who openly talks about God, and His beleif in God. Do you beleive He is not Enlightened?

Malcolm wrote:
This is what THT thinks:
In Buddhism we do not speak of God, we do not speak of creation, we do not speak of revelation, and we do not speak of redemption or punishment.
https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/interviews-with-thich-nhat-hanh/thich-nhat-hanh-answers-weekly-magazine/

This is correct.

THT states here, however: In Buddhism, what is equivalent to God is Mind, especially the collective mind. Mind is the ground of everything; and when your mind gets in touch with the collective mind, everything is possible.
This has to be understood in context. What THT is referring to here is known as the ālayavijñāna, the all-basis consciousness. The all-basis consciousness is not actually a "collective" consciousness in the sense that you likely understand it. Here, in Chinese, it is understood as a "storehouse," and the function of this consciousness is actually to collect and store seeds that produce the appearance of an external and its appearances world. Some of those seeds human beings share in common, and so this produces the appearance of our human realm; devas, asuras, animals, etc., have different sets of seeds that are responsible for the appearance of their respective realms, according to this idea. Equating the all-basis consciousness with "God" is very sloppy; but he does have a lot of people who are Christians who follow him, so he is trying to make an equation for them that they will understand, in the same way that Buddha taught tathāgatagarbha to those who feared emptiness.

Brahma said:
Or the Dalai Lama who encourages people of other faiths to meditate on their own faith's Deities during meditation as He teaches them how to meditate.

Malcolm wrote:
His Holiness discourages conversion to Buddhism in general, but not absolutely.

Brahma said:
Do not shy away from the Truth of the Dharma, and soon, you will find the Truth of what you have been looking for in Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
You don't really seem to know very much about Buddhadharma. The Buddha states in the Mahāparinirvana Sūtra:

Whoever goes for refuge to the Buddha, 
that true śramana 
does not go for refuge
to other gods.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 10th, 2021 at 12:19 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Brahma said:
Where in the Dharmic texts does it say that Universes aren't created, and that certain living entities don't stem from other living entities?

Malcolm wrote:
A common doctrine of theistic religions is ex nihilo creation by a supreme being. There is no sūtra which teaches such creation of the universe or living beings. There is no beginning in Buddhadharma, because the principle of dependent origination forbids the idea of first causes altogether. The specific refutations of ex nihilo creationism can be found in Vasbandhu's refutation of the pudgala and other such texts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 9th, 2021 at 10:05 PM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Matt J said:
Buddhism contains many elements that atheists deem problematic: karma, rebirth, pure lands, hells, other realms and beings, etc.

I would say that the qualities usually ascribed to God or gods are here ascribed to sentient beings. There are many descriptions of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas that sound very god-like, and would not sit well with the typical atheist.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s their problem, not ours. The teaching of Buddhadharma is dependent origination, that teaching explains all of the above and is also intrinsically atheistic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 9th, 2021 at 10:01 PM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
tkp67 said:
Making buddhism atheist also makes it secular.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it’s just a recognition of a fact: buddhadharma does not recognize ex nihilo creation by a supreme being, a key feature of all theistic traditions. Samkhya, Jainism, and so on are also atheist traditions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 9th, 2021 at 9:20 PM
Title: Re: why is theravada section hosted on a separate website
Content:
Kim O'Hara said:
Asian (Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand, etc) and East Asian (Tibetan, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc)

Malcolm wrote:
Tibet is a Central Asian country.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 9th, 2021 at 7:42 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Cataract Surgery?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I just had cataract surgery. There is an incision, the entire lens is removed, and a new plastic lens inserted. In other words, “the cataract” is the old lens. Even if everything else was modern level sterile and painless, removing the lens without replacing it would effectively blind you in that eye.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s the modern way, but actually what happens is that film forms on the lens, which can be removed separately from the lens. These kinds of surgeries were performed in old Tibet without blinding anyone.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 9th, 2021 at 7:29 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Johndoe said:
Is there any equivalent to thogal in mahamudra or among the New Tantra schools?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope.

GrapeLover said:
Just curious, did this ever see thögal singled out for doubt or criticism by Sarma schools?

Malcolm wrote:
Yup. But Jigme Lingpa responds such criticisms quite handily.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 9th, 2021 at 7:28 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Cataract Surgery?
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
If I had to say what was the worst idea to come out of Tibet, this would be it.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s actually fairly straight forward: one makes a small incision in the outside corner of the eye. Then, with small pair of tweezers, in conjunction with the patient making a strong exhalation through opposite nostril, one tugs the cataract free. It’s not nearly as terrifying as the idea of premodern eye surgery may sound.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 9th, 2021 at 6:54 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Cataract Surgery?
Content:
Tenma said:
https://treasuryoflives.org/biographies/view/Yangchen-Lhamo/13598

Is anyone familiar with how Tibetan Cataract Surgery goes? Is it safe? How is it performed (with knives or what) and what have been the outcomes?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. Yes. I describe the process in a footnote in an upcoming book.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 9th, 2021 at 6:29 AM
Title: Re: Equivalent to thogal
Content:
Johndoe said:
Is there any equivalent to thogal in mahamudra or among the New Tantra schools?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 9th, 2021 at 12:41 AM
Title: Re: Questions Regarding Buddhist Academia
Content:
Tenma said:
Out of curiosity, what does academia look like in regards to Buddhist Studies? What does the path towards it look like? Would one focus entirely on certain aspects of a certain lineage or what? I've heard that this is a very difficult path (followed by questioning of one's faith in this), so I wanted to hear in regards to how the path goes. For those who pursue this, why did you choose Buddhist Studies exactly?
What are some obstacles you might have if one were to pursue this?

Malcolm wrote:
If you are serious, you have to learn French and German; Pali or Sanskrit; Chinese and Japanese; Tibetan; Thai, Burmese, or Cambodian, Vietnamese, etc.

So, if focusing on East Asian traditions,in addition to the European languages, one will need Sanskrit, Chinese, and Japanese; if focusing on Indo-Tibetan Buddhism, then Sanskrit and Tibetan, Chinese useful; if focusing South-east Asian Buddhism, then Pali, Sanskrit, and a regional vernacular such as Thai or Burmese.

Not really for the faint of heart.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 8th, 2021 at 8:57 PM
Title: Re: Subduing and Oath Binding
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
I suspect that it’s a very poetic way of saying that he took the existing religious methodologies (deities, rituals, etc) and turned them into Vajrayana Buddhist practices.

Malcolm wrote:
Umm...no.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 7th, 2021 at 10:59 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Matt J said:
That is not really Wallace's point in the article.

PeterC said:
I don’t read the whole article.  I got as far as where he said int he first paragraph;
However, a careful analysis of Vajrayana Buddhist cosmogony, specifically as presented in the Atiyoga tradition of Indo-Tibetan Buddhism, which presents itself as the culmination of all Buddhist teachings, reveals a theory of a transcendent groimd of being and a process of creation that bear remarkable similarities with views presented in Vedanta and Neoplatonic Western Christian theories of creation...
...and realized that I didn’t need to, as he’s clearly going off in a completely different direction and not addressing my argument.
If we were to discuss the Samghogakaya, Samantabhadra, Pure lands and pure vision with Lawrence Krauss and Daniel Dennett, I doubt we would be on the same page.
Fine. I think my argument on this is very clear and simple.  I don’t need to drag myself through the contortions of other peoples’ parsing of the word “theistic”. Krauss and Dennett are not teachers of mine so I don’t need to reconcile my reasoning with theirs, nor would I regard them as authorities on the Dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
Wallace is totally full of it here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 7th, 2021 at 10:57 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:
Matt J said:
Is it though? I don't see that at all.

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely atheistic.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 7th, 2021 at 6:47 AM
Title: Re: Sapan and Dzogchen
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I'm currently perusing  "illuminations A Guide to Essential Buddhist Practices", translated by Geshe Wangyal and Brian Cutillo. It's a book from 1988, I don't know anything about the quality of the translation.

Anyway, there is a portion on Wrong View in which Sapan goes over various wrong views, connecting many of them to the famous debate with Hashang Mahayana.

If I am reading it correctly, it's essentially a polemic against "effortless" practices as well, there is lots of talk about how you must "correct deficiencies" etc. and claiming that versions of "Mahamudra" (Dzogchen is not explicitly mentioned, but language used in Dzogchen is, and it almost feels like the term is being used synonymously) which involve viewing "the mind as clear light" are incomplete. AS an example, multiple times he criticizes meditating "without modification".

The criticism is a little opaque to me, and I cannot tell if he is contextually arguing against the essentially non-gradual approach of Dzogchen meditation proper (not preliminaries), or whether he is referring to specific deviations with which I may not be familiar. I always imagined that Sapan had some pretty specific criticisms of Dzogchen.

I have always assumed that Sarma schools and Dzogchen were somewhat irreconcilable on paper (though of course not neccessarily in practice)..again is this what I'm looking at?

Malcolm wrote:
This is not a good translation. You should get the one by David Jackson, which I believe you download from academia edu.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 7th, 2021 at 6:42 AM
Title: Re: Gelug Madhyamaka
Content:



Nicholas2727 said:
The part I am confused about is how this does not fall into nihilism at the ultimate level. From your description and Malcolm's description, I understand that phenomena occur, but they have no intrinsic existence. Therefore to conventionally say nothing exists would be obvious nihilism and not true, but I am confused at how it is not nihilism at the ultimate level? I am not implying that it is nihilism, but I am having trouble understanding how it is not. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will be able to help.

Malcolm wrote:
If things existed ultimately, they would be permanent, and hence, this would be eternalism, for example, like Samkhya.

Nicholas2727 said:
Correct, but wouldn't the other side of that argument be, if things don't exist ultimately, they would be impermanent and hence this would be nihilism? This is the part I am having trouble understanding. At the conventional level it makes sense, but at the ultimate level I am confused.

Malcolm wrote:
Things are impermanent.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, February 7th, 2021 at 1:25 AM
Title: Re: Gelug Madhyamaka
Content:



Nicholas2727 said:
The part I am confused about is how this does not fall into nihilism at the ultimate level. From your description and Malcolm's description, I understand that phenomena occur, but they have no intrinsic existence. Therefore to conventionally say nothing exists would be obvious nihilism and not true, but I am confused at how it is not nihilism at the ultimate level? I am not implying that it is nihilism, but I am having trouble understanding how it is not. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will be able to help.

Malcolm wrote:
If things existed ultimately, they would be permanent, and hence, this would be eternalism, for example, like Samkhya.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 6th, 2021 at 9:13 PM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:


illarraza said:
Before predicting hell for another, one need know the causes for falling into hell and have a general idea of the various Buddhist hells:


Malcolm wrote:
Mainly hatred and splitting the Sangha (reserved for bhikṣus like Devadatta). Then there is killing one's parents, killing an arhat, or injuring a buddha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 6th, 2021 at 11:23 AM
Title: Re: Wall Street, hedge funds
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://apple.news/AuLz1IPkfRG68sbtQf-EKBg


Unknown said:
The Boston-area trader at the center of the past week’s frenzy over GameStop Corp. , who also worked until last week as a broker, may face legal jeopardy for potential violations of federal rules governing brokers’ communications with the public, according to securities lawyers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 6th, 2021 at 7:15 AM
Title: Re: Where are the "pratyekabuddha-yanist"?
Content:
Queequeg said:
Accepting the premise that pratyekabuddhas, as all beings in beginningless samsara have encountered buddhas. Does pratyekabuddha's awakening include recollection of past lives? So far the assertion has been made that pratyekabuddha do understand themselves in terms of Buddhadharma... are there any textual sources for this?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. Check out access to insight run a search on paccekabuddha


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 6th, 2021 at 5:57 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Matt J said:
There is no individual that could become enlightened; no one that needs to attain or realize anything. The drama of striving to achieve enlightenment through various practices is limited to the play of appearances. What practice is needed to simply be?
Nathan Gill

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is called the enlightenment of fish.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 6th, 2021 at 3:17 AM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:


mabw said:
I'm just simply curious as to what Buddhism offers that Western thought cannot.

Malcolm wrote:
Liberation from suffering.

mabw said:
What if there is no such thing?

Malcolm wrote:
My alternative strategy, in absence of liberation, is Epicurean hedonism ala Lucretius.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, February 6th, 2021 at 1:16 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Have you ever tried to hold onto a thought? I think you will find it slips right through your fingers.

Astus said:
Isn't it truly unattainable (mushotoku 無所得) then?

Malcolm wrote:
Hence the meaning of letting go of letting go. Not proliferation at all. I'll see your zenmaster and raise you a mahāsiddha:

Just like the limpid quality of water when it is undisturbed, remain relaxed without mental contrivances.
Just as a bird in the sky leaves no tracks, consciousness remains without support.
Just like the sun not concealed by clouds, remain in one’s own unobstructed state relaxing into the objects of the six sense organs.
Just like water always falling, remain undistracted at all times and in all activities.
Dombhi Heruka



Other robes and bone ornaments, do you really see any difference between this and Dogen?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 5th, 2021 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Matt J said:
By working with Buddhist practices, we actually come to see that what we thought was solid is not solid, what we though was graspable is not graspable, and what we thought was fulfilling is not fulfilling. In this way, a natural type of letting go occurs.

Astus said:
How about going directly to letting go of thoughts ( https://www.sotozen.com/eng/library/key_terms/pdf/key_terms08.pdf )?

Malcolm wrote:
Have you ever tried to hold onto a thought? I think you will find it slips right through your fingers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 5th, 2021 at 10:30 PM
Title: Re: Deity as Yidam, Protector, Guru, etc.
Content:
fckw said:
theory, there could also exist dakas, but I have never seen such a sadhana.

Malcolm wrote:
Viras = dakas. All male deities like Hevajra, etc are also dakas. Then there is the Cakrasamvara explanatory tantra, the Vajradaka., etc,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 5th, 2021 at 10:14 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
More words = more proliferation.

Astus said:
Okumura roshi on Dogen:

'Although he advised his students not to waste time arguing or criticizing, and he himself tried not to argue, he was not able to follow his own advice. I rather like his inconsistency on this point. I feel like he was an actual human being.'
(The Mountains and Waters Sūtra: A Practitioner's Guide to Dōgen's "Sansuikyo", 2-2)

Malcolm wrote:
It seems Dogen had a lot of proliferation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 5th, 2021 at 9:53 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
“Let go of letting go.” Jetsun Drakpa Gyaltsen

Astus said:
That's a proliferation of ideas about letting go,

Malcolm wrote:
Nah, you just like typing out citations, which only increases proliferation. More words = more proliferation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 5th, 2021 at 9:22 PM
Title: Re: Non Cultural Buddhists: What Made You Stay?
Content:


mabw said:
I'm just simply curious as to what Buddhism offers that Western thought cannot.

Malcolm wrote:
Liberation from suffering.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, February 5th, 2021 at 10:00 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Matt J said:
By working with Buddhist practices, we actually come to see that what we thought was solid is not solid, what we though was graspable is not graspable, and what we thought was fulfilling is not fulfilling. In this way, a natural type of letting go occurs.

Astus said:
How about going directly to letting go of thoughts ( https://www.sotozen.com/eng/library/key_terms/pdf/key_terms08.pdf )?

Malcolm wrote:
“Let go of letting go.” Jetsun Drakpa Gyaltsen


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 9:58 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
And yet Dogen  talks about gaining thorough understanding, what maddening inconsistencies.

Astus said:
The thorough understanding of what?

' What is sudden awakening (tongo 頓悟)? Answer: Sudden is to suddenly remove false thoughts (muunen 妄念). Awakening is to awaken to nothing to gain (mushotoku 無所得).'
( https://ymba.org/books/entering-tao-sudden-enlightenment/treatise-entering-tao-sudden-enlightenment; X63n1223p18a10)

'Additionally, if a person retaining the concept of there being anything to be gained (ushotoku 有所得) generates the bodhi resolve and then proceeds to cultivate kindness, compassion, sympathetic joy, equanimity, giving, moral virtue, patience, vigor, dhyāna absorption, and wisdom, doing so for an incalculable number of asaṃkhyeyas of kalpas, one should realize that, on account of retaining the concept of something to be gained, such a person will not succeed in leaving behind birth and death and will not succeed in progressing towards bodhi.'
( http://kalavinka.org/Jewels/book_excerpts/V-Bcitta_excerpts/VBcitta_X-21_X-10.pdf; T32n1659p515c12-15)

Malcolm wrote:
Don’t you just love dancing on books?

Looks like we didn’t need any of this Zen stuff to begin with: Nagarjuna writes, “Nothing here to establish, nothing to remove, when reality is truly seen, liberation.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 8:12 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sure, but at this point, it is not really insight since there is nothing left for a buddha to do.

Astus said:
Just as there is nothing left to be done in zazen, or as it is sometimes put: http://www.sanshinji.org/sanshin-style-blog/why-zazen-is-good-for-nothing-1 (mushotoku 無所得 - anupalabdha).

Malcolm wrote:
And yet Dogen  talks about gaining thorough understanding, what maddening inconsistencies.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 9:47 AM
Title: Re: Trumps last day, post your fav vids
Content:
Queequeg said:
If he weren't swept up in something so ludicrous and dangerous, it would be easier to feel bad for the mypillow guy.

He's a recovering crackhead who looks like he fell hard off the wagon.

Here's some perspective on that Newsmax trainwreck.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/20/how-mypillow-founder-went-from-crack-addict-to-self-made-millionaire.html

PeterC said:
That’s a very sad story.  It sounds as if he has recurrent mental health problems, and quite serious ones at that.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.newsandguts.com/host-takes-blame-after-walking-off-set-during-interview-with-my-pillow-ceo/

Even more sad is this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 5:54 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Right, the point of all this is that we then have a situation where a person does not have insight. This means, according the definition you are providing, they are not doing shikantaza. This means there are two levels: shikantaza and not shikantaza. This means the path is gradated, despite whatever rhetoric one brings to bear.

jimmi said:
There isn’t a person who doesn’t have or hasn’t had insight.

Malcolm wrote:
So people have insight, but they don't know they have insight?


jimmi said:
What anyone choses to do with the insight that they become aware of is up to them. Shikantaza and not shikantaza is not two levels but two different situations altogether. If one is somehow instructed in Shikantaza yet hasn’t had the personal insight the motivates and energizes their zazen then it is not actually shikantaza. Which is not to say that in “not shikantaza” one cannot come to shikantaza, just that there is no inherent connection there. So no gradated path. No path at all. Immediacy.

Malcolm wrote:
Rhetoric, not reality.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 4:19 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:


jimmi said:
(Zazen) Shikantaza arises out of insight. Without insight Shikantaza would not much more than “have a break for a while and drift away” meditation. Having insight as its basis there is no requirement in Shikantaza to aspire to further insight. Courageous, equanimous abiding in immediacy is entirely sufficient.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, the point of all this is that we then have a situation where a person does not have insight. This means, according the definition you are providing, they are not doing shikantaza. This means there are two levels: shikantaza and not shikantaza. This means the path is gradated, despite whatever rhetoric one brings to bear.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 3:02 AM
Title: Re: Mansplaining Women’s Enlightenment
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://lithub.com/how-a-poetry-collection-masquerading-as-buddhist-scripture-nearly-duped-the-literary-world/
In the past, Weingast has admitted he isn’t qualified to translate the text. Last May, Pamela Weiss, a prominent meditation teacher associated with the San Francisco Zen Center and the Insight Meditation Society, published an interview with Weingast that was held at the San Francisco Insight Meditation Community in front of an audience. In regard to his writing process, Weingast said, “I had no idea what I was doing, so it just kind of allowed me to just make it up as I went along […] So it was kind of always just this seeing what it was, seeing what it was for me, that was the important part.”

In response to a question about how Weingast chose specific English words to interpret their Pali originals, Weingast responded, “Not so much [in reference] to Pali, because she [the chief editor] doesn’t have Pali,” admitting that neither he nor the editor have any expertise in the text’s source language. He then described a process of reading and re-reading the verses aloud in different ways, trying different words based on what “rings true.”
You just can't make this shit up.

Johnny Dangerous said:
It's kind of amazing when the author himself makes a good case for what's wrong with the publication...........

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it is pretty amazing. Definitely an editorial process fail. Publishers trust editors to make good choices. But bad choices can and do happen. I am quite certain NIkko Odiseos is really pissed and somewhat embarrassed since he is actually quite conservative in his Buddhist views (full disclosure: we are slightly acquainted and I have a book in editorial with Shambhala). While he is responsible, I am certain he did not have much to do with the book while it was in process. Shambhala is a big and complicated business.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 2:49 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
LastLegend said:
Hmmm for what lol? Not too firm too soft?

Malcolm wrote:
One wants it to be spreadable.

LastLegend said:
Sure I like for someone lousy like myself. But what purpose?

Malcolm wrote:
Grasshopper, you should have learned by now to free yourself of purposes...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 2:42 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
LastLegend said:
Hmmm for what lol? Not too firm too soft?

Malcolm wrote:
One wants it to be spreadable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 2:40 AM
Title: Re: Mansplaining Women’s Enlightenment
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://lithub.com/how-a-poetry-collection-masquerading-as-buddhist-scripture-nearly-duped-the-literary-world/

Unknown said:
In the past, Weingast has admitted he isn’t qualified to translate the text. Last May, Pamela Weiss, a prominent meditation teacher associated with the San Francisco Zen Center and the Insight Meditation Society, published an interview with Weingast that was held at the San Francisco Insight Meditation Community in front of an audience. In regard to his writing process, Weingast said, “I had no idea what I was doing, so it just kind of allowed me to just make it up as I went along […] So it was kind of always just this seeing what it was, seeing what it was for me, that was the important part.”

In response to a question about how Weingast chose specific English words to interpret their Pali originals, Weingast responded, “Not so much [in reference] to Pali, because she [the chief editor] doesn’t have Pali,” admitting that neither he nor the editor have any expertise in the text’s source language. He then described a process of reading and re-reading the verses aloud in different ways, trying different words based on what “rings true.”

Malcolm wrote:
You just can't make this shit up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 2:02 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
[Actually, Dogen frequently contradicts himself. You know what is said about consistency and great men.

Virgo said:
I always aim for the good kind of consistency.

Virgo

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, not too runny, not to firm, like a good mayonnaise.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 2:01 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha has no further need of insight, since in a buddha śamatha and vipaśyāna are in union. This is not the case for others.

Astus said:
The Buddha has also regularly abided in emptiness (suññatāvihāra) and recommended others to do the same:

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, but at this point, it is not really insight since there is nothing left for a buddha to do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 1:59 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Yogacara and Tathagatagharba in particular seem to be set upon constantly by faulty readings.

Malcolm wrote:
No, Yogacāra really is a realist school, despite the attempts of some traditional Tibetan and Chinese scholars, and modern scholars like Dan Lusthaus, to revision it in nonrealist terms.

Archie2009 said:
Does that include Karl Brunnhölzl?

Malcolm wrote:
KB admits that the Yogacāra of Maitreyanatha, Asanga etc., adheres to the portrait of Yogacāra painted by Bhavaviveka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, February 4th, 2021 at 1:57 AM
Title: Re: Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
They are for Gorampa as well, providing tathāgatagarbha is properly understood. But if for example the nine examples are not correctly understood, he states the TTG sūtras are provisional.

Also, the reason Longchenpa claims the TTG sūtras are definitive has to do with how he understands them in relation to Dzogchen. He also defines Prasanga Madhyamaka as the definitive view.

In general, however, the Buddha himself declares the tathāgatagarbha doctrine provisional, that is interpretable, in the Lanka Sūtra.

Seeker12 said:
Just to add to this, FWIW, from Dudjom Rinpoche:

"...while the intention of the final transmitted precepts is not the same as that of the mundane Mind Only system in any of its forms, the purposes of the lower phases of the vehicle are gradually gathered within the higher, so that [Mind Only and the like] are not contradictory apart from their vindication of an extreme position. Indeed, one must truly comprehend that the great distinction of the higher over the lower phases is a feature of the precious teaching of the sublime Sugata. Otherwise, after one had been given teaching on suffering, selflessness, impurity and impermanence according to the first promulgation and everything had been established as emptiness according to the intermediate transmitted precepts, if one were then to grasp literally the meaningful intention revealed according to the final transmitted precepts concerning bliss, purity, permanence and true self, without knowing how to accept them with an attitude confident in the four kinds of reliance, one would engage in conceptualising thoughts which would confuse those who require training and wrongly scrutinize the teaching."


Malcolm wrote:
Sure, if you accept the scheme of the Samdhnirmocana Sūtra as defintive. I never have. I prefer the approach of the Sandhivyākaraṇa Tantra: "The pleasing single vajra word is heard different by beings with different dispositions."

Also, I don't think that Dudjom Rinpoche's position here withstands examination. He is largely just repeating Kongtrul, etc. People who adhere to the extrinsic emptiness position will find this convincing, those who don't, won't.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 10:46 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Yogacara and Tathagatagharba in particular seem to be set upon constantly by faulty readings.

Malcolm wrote:
No, Yogacāra really is a realist school, despite the attempts of some traditional Tibetan and Chinese scholars, and modern scholars like Dan Lusthaus, to revision it in nonrealist terms.

Queequeg said:
For the less learned, can you explain that?

Malcolm wrote:
For Yogacārins, emptiness exists, it is strictly defined as an affirming negation; a village is empty of a city, and so on. Asanga explicitly invokes the emptiness described in the Cullasuññata sutta in a rebuke to Madhyamakas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 10:44 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:


Queequeg said:
In other words, Tathagatagarbha teaching are therapies for a misguided view of emptiness.

Unfortunately people grasp it as something. Those people need the therapy of emptiness.

Malcolm wrote:
According to the Lanka, it is a doctrine for those afraid of emptiness, therefore provisional.

Queequeg said:
I don't have an unassailable source, but I'll go out on a limb and assert that grasped emptiness is provisional, too. The razor's edge is tough to balance on.

Malcolm wrote:
You can just use Nāgārjuna as a source: emptiness incorrectly seen is like grasping a viper by the tail or incorrect reciting a vidyāmantra. Nevertheless, the Lanka's perspective on tathāgatagarbha is pretty clear.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 10:42 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Yogacara and Tathagatagharba in particular seem to be set upon constantly by faulty readings.

Malcolm wrote:
No, Yogacāra really is a realist school, despite the attempts of some traditional Tibetan and Chinese scholars, and modern scholars like Dan Lusthaus, to revision it in nonrealist terms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 10:26 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You quote below is a recognition that the Buddha continued to practice shamatha, which is true.

Astus said:
If zazen meant only samatha, then why would it ever turn into insight?

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha has no further need of insight, since in a buddha śamatha and vipaśyāna are in union. This is not the case for others.

Astus said:
Clearly, in the passage I provided before, Dogen acknowledged that there is a liminal point of understanding.
If there were such a point, then he would be contradicting himself not just vis-a-vis his other works, but even in the same chapter ( https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=568052#p568052 ).

Malcolm wrote:
The ability of human beings to contradict themselves is incredible, isn't it? I know Dogen contradicted himself, that was the point of using that passage. Actually, Dogen frequently contradicts himself. You know what is said about consistency and great men.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 10:23 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
According to the Lanka, it is a doctrine for those afraid of emptiness, therefore provisional.

Seeker12 said:
According to Longchenpa, the TTG Sutras are the definitive ones. FWIW. I'm sure you know that.

Malcolm wrote:
They are for Gorampa as well, providing tathāgatagarbha is properly understood. But if for example the nine examples are not correctly understood, he states the TTG sūtras are provisional.

Also, the reason Longchenpa claims the TTG sūtras are definitive has to do with how he understands them in relation to Dzogchen. He also defines Prasanga Madhyamaka as the definitive view.

In general, however, the Buddha himself declares the tathāgatagarbha doctrine provisional, that is interpretable, in the Lanka Sūtra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 9:41 PM
Title: Re: Mansplaining Women’s Enlightenment
Content:


Queequeg said:
This will definitely be a plot line in Billions, which is loosely based on Stephen A. Cohen....

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, Sorkin has written a lot on this in Dealbook, so it is certain to become an Axe Capital plot line.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 8:15 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You quote below is a recognition that the Buddha continued to practice shamatha, which is true. Clearly, in the passage I provided before, Dogen acknowledged that there is a liminal point of understanding. One certainly can’t expect that a beginner is going to have this understanding immediately merely because they sit in a stiff posture.
I disagree.

Astus said:
As you like. Just some extra:

'Not accompanied by the ten thousand things, what stages could there be? What do you use this for?'
(Eihei Koroku 4.301, p 281)

'These [family instructions] are simply the sitting cushions and Zen boards of the seven buddhas, and the source of the life root of the ancestors. Therefore, this is not in the realm of the four dhyanas or eight samadhis. How could it be measured in terms of the three wise or ten sacred stages? Every day just sit, dropping off body and mind. Do not be worried with a scene of laughable confusion about [comparisons between] barbarians or the civilized. Do not vainly waste a moment, but always cherish time.'
(8.1.12, p 487)

'Such examples as [Jinhua] Juzhi’s one finger, Huangbo’s sixty hits, Baizhang’s whisk, Linji’s shout, Dongshan [Shouchu]’s three pounds of sesame, and Yunmen’s dried shitstick are not caught up in the stages from living beings to Buddha, and they already transcend the boundaries of delusion and enlightenment.'
(8.2.11, p 519)

'This practice is the effort of zazen. It is customary that such practice is not abandoned, even after reaching buddhahood, so that it is [still] practiced by a buddha. Teaching and verification should be examined in the same way. This zazen was transmitted from Buddha to Buddha, directly pointed out by ancestors, and only [transmitted] by legitimate successors. Even when others hear of its name, it is not the same as the zazen of buddha ancestors. This is because the principle of zazen in other schools is to wait for enlightenment. For example, [their practice] is like having crossed over a great ocean on a raft, thinking that upon crossing the ocean one should discard the raft. The zazen of our buddha ancestors is not like this, but is simply Buddha’s practice. We could say that the situation of Buddha’s house is the oneness in which the essence, practice, and expounding are one and the same. The essence is verification of enlightenment; expounding is the teaching; and practice is cultivation. Even up to now, these have been studied together.
We should know that practice is the practice of essence and expounding; expounding is to expound the essence and practice; and the essence is the verification of expounding and practice. If practice is not the practice of expounding and is not the practice of verification of enlightenment, how can we say it is the practice of Buddha Dharma? If expounding is not the expounding of practice and is not the expounding of verification, it is difficult to call it the expounding of Buddha Dharma. If verification is not the verification of practice and is not the verification of expounding, how can we name it the verification of the Buddha Dharma? Just know that Buddha Dharma is one in the beginning, middle, and end. It is good in the beginning, middle, and end; it is nothing in the beginning, middle, and end; and it is empty in the beginning, middle, and end. This single matter never comes from the forceful activity of people, but from the beginning is the expression and activity of Dharma.'
(p 521)


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 8:03 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra
Content:


Queequeg said:
In other words, Tathagatagarbha teaching are therapies for a misguided view of emptiness.

Unfortunately people grasp it as something. Those people need the therapy of emptiness.

Malcolm wrote:
According to the Lanka, it is a doctrine for those afraid of emptiness, therefore provisional.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 7:49 PM
Title: Re: Śūraṅgama Sūtra
Content:
microbodhi said:
Thank you all for your answers thus far

I was also thinking that there was no Sanskrit but i came upon the Shurangama Mantra which is in Sanskrit, is there any connection.

Malcolm wrote:
The mantra is a well known dharani.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 7:39 PM
Title: Re: Mansplaining Women’s Enlightenment
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, gamestop lost $165 today to close at $90. Most of the trading has been driven by institutions, not retail investors. All wallstrettbets did was make Wall Street a ton of money.

Queequeg said:
Is there data on who is trading?

Malcolm wrote:
Yup.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 10:16 AM
Title: Re: Trumps last day, post your fav vids
Content:
PeterC said:
Who let this guy onto the public stage?  His only qualifications seem to be (a) being CEO of a company nobody has heard of, and (b) delusional paranoia.


Malcolm wrote:
Well sadly, in the US everyone has heard of my pillow...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 9:42 AM
Title: Re: Mansplaining Women’s Enlightenment
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/02/02/gamestop-stock-plunge-losers/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 8:07 AM
Title: Re: Mansplaining Women’s Enlightenment
Content:



PeterC said:
"I teach suffering and the ending of suffering"


Malcolm wrote:
I think this book was meant to appeal to people whose notion of suffering is running out of Chardonnay.

PeterC said:
Well, there's the suffering of suffering, the suffering of change, and the suffering of Karen, and if Karen doesn't get something done about her suffering right away then she's going to have to talk to the manager.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, gamestop lost $165 today to close at $90. Most of the trading has been driven by institutions, not retail investors. All wallstrettbets did was make Wall Street a ton of money.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 7:45 AM
Title: Re: Śūraṅgama Sūtra
Content:



khandha said:
I am interested to hear some reasons for this conclusion. I will also try to search some of the older threads on this sutra that may touch on the reasons why this sutra is not from India.

Malcolm wrote:
This is the consensus of most scholars on the issue.

PadmaVonSamba said:
... but not all:

https://online.sfsu.edu/rone/Buddhism/authenticity.htm

Malcolm wrote:
I said most. Epstein has a sectarian commitment to the issue given his affiliation with City of 10,000 Buddhas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 7:37 AM
Title: Re: Śūraṅgama Sūtra
Content:



khandha said:
I am interested to hear some reasons for this conclusion. I will also try to search some of the older threads on this sutra that may touch on the reasons why this sutra is not from India.

Malcolm wrote:
This is the consensus of most scholars on the issue.

Manjushri said:
I recall hearing Khenpo Sodargye's lectures on the Surangama Sutra (available on Youtube), in which he states that a sanskrit version had been found some time ago. I assume there are doubts in regards to this?

I've also found this on another article:
Henan Nanyang Bodhi Temple originally had one Sanskrit language manuscript sutra, consisting in total 226 leaves, of which 6 were missing… according to the introduction, it contains the Śūraṅgama Sūtra and is most probably the only extant Sanskrit manuscript dating from the Tang Dynasty. The letters are roundish and belongs to a type used in South India and has been recognized by the country as a Category 1 cultural artifact. It is now located in the Peng Xuefeng Memorial Museum.

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t think this manuscript has ever been examined. So until it has, I don’t think this counts as evidence.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 7:32 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Clearly, Dogen perceives stages in zazen, for exmple, on page 859 of Tanahashi translation.

Astus said:
Could you specify the chapter title?
On 440 he talks of "The understanding at the moment of thorough realization should be authentic..." etc. He speaks of how this practice accumulates over months and years, and over lifetimes.
The topic of that chapter is 'expressing the truth' ( https://www.sotozen.com/eng/library/key_terms/pdf/key_terms15.pdf ), and it does not really describe a gradual improvement, but rather continuously expressing the truth with one's practice.]
(Dotoku, in SBGZ, BDK ed, vol 2, p 333)

Malcolm wrote:
I disagree.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 6:08 AM
Title: Re: Śūraṅgama Sūtra
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
I’m just finishing reading that edition now.
My understanding is that there are no surviving Sanskrit editions.

Malcolm wrote:
There never was a Sanskrit edition.

khandha said:
I am interested to hear some reasons for this conclusion. I will also try to search some of the older threads on this sutra that may touch on the reasons why this sutra is not from India.

Malcolm wrote:
This is the consensus of most scholars on the issue.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 4:40 AM
Title: Re: Life after Death: Buddhism VS Other Views
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
So I am not really sure "spirit mediums" can be said to be part of most types of Buddhism unless they have somehow found a way to communicate with those in other Samsaric realms. Since we are Buddhists communicating on a Buddhist online community and not a comparative religion site, I really don't have much to say about experiences of non-Buddhists with such people.

Malcolm wrote:
Mediumship in Tibetan/Trans-Himalayan, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Burmese, Thai, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Laotian, and Mongolian Buddhism is very clearly a survival of pre-Buddhist trance shamanism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 3:19 AM
Title: Coup Aerobics
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://fb.watch/3pnKEo1mEb/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 2:15 AM
Title: Re: Mansplaining Women’s Enlightenment
Content:
Queequeg said:
Did our shit talking here help bring about a change? I'm feeling empowered... like those hooligans on r/wallstreetbets.

Malcolm wrote:
Maybe you would like to speak to the manager along with Karen?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 at 2:11 AM
Title: Re: Śūraṅgama Sūtra
Content:


PadmaVonSamba said:
I’m just finishing reading that edition now.
My understanding is that there are no surviving Sanskrit editions.

Malcolm wrote:
There never was a Sanskrit edition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 11:44 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:



Astus said:
I have not seen Dogen, or later teachers, turn away from the Zen rhetoric and follow gradual Mahayana teachings.

Malcolm wrote:
Clearly, Dogen perceives stages in zazen, for exmple, on page 859 of Tanahashi translation.

On 440 he talks of "The understanding at the moment of thorough realization should be authentic..." etc. He speaks of how this practice accumulates over months and years, and over lifetimes. Dogen clearly embraces gradualism too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 11:14 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Otherwise, are we expected to believe the magical theory that merely  sitting in a Soto Zendo somehow is sitting in the state of Buddhahood? Or that merely sitting in a posture is Buddhahood? Clearly you can see the ridiculous consequences emerging from such a stance. Obviously Dogen didn’t believe this.

Astus said:
I have not seen Dogen, or later teachers, turn away from the Zen rhetoric

Malcolm wrote:
Even marmots know how to sit. I've got your marmot Buddha right here:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 10:42 PM
Title: Re: Mansplaining Women’s Enlightenment
Content:



PeterC said:
"I teach suffering and the ending of suffering"


Malcolm wrote:
I think this book was meant to appeal to people whose notion of suffering is running out of Chardonnay.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 10:37 PM
Title: Re: Trump, Russian Asset
Content:


PeterC said:
Agree, though that only gets you so far.  When they are subject to sanctions it limits their ability to travel, invest and spend outside Russia. But Mogil evich still has a pretty good life inside Russia, apparently.

Malcolm wrote:
As long as the Russians tolerate Putin, well, for that long they will remain isolated and subject to the whims of their Tsar.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 9:53 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You didn’t really read Cousins article, did you?

Astus said:
I actually did. That's why I asked where you found the samatha part to be followed by vipasyana, because that is the one version of the four that is named samathayana.

Malcolm wrote:
The Shamathayana referring to the Buddha’s attaining awakening in one session is the one I was referring to.

For ordinary people, vipashyana first, then shamatha.

In any case, no matter what one’s rhetorical stance, all Buddhist equipoise practice ultimately comes down to a union of shamatha and vipashyana.

Otherwise, are we expected to believe the magical theory that merely  sitting in a Soto Zendo somehow is sitting in the state of Buddhahood? Or that merely sitting in a posture is Buddhahood? Clearly you can see the ridiculous consequences emerging from such a stance. Obviously Dogen didn’t believe this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 9:49 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:


Astus said:
There are teachers who first instruct people to count breath, to focus on the posture, etc., so there it would be valid to say they begin with calming the mind.

Malcolm wrote:
Reality.

Astus said:
But when it comes to practising zazen according to the teachings of Dogen, it is to go directly to suchness.

Malcolm wrote:
Rhetoric.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 9:09 PM
Title: Re: Transcendent reality in Buddhism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Not science:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 9:05 PM
Title: Re: Transcendent reality in Buddhism
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Science:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 8:53 PM
Title: Re: Transcendent reality in Buddhism
Content:
Aemilius said:
Human beings are not the only realm or the only level of existence in Mahayana or Sravakayana Dharma. The realms of Devas, Yakshas, Nagas, etc.. exist, the realms of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas exist. Beginningless reincarnation exists. Vast time scales exist. Sutras, Dharanis, Mantras, oral commentaries and other teachings exist in different realms, on different levels of existence. Supranormal powers (abhijña) exist. Modern science is like a single anthill in a great forest of a planet in a vast galaxy of stars, which thinks that there is nothing else, and no other conscious beings exist anywhere in the world.

PeterC said:
To make this statement completely misunderstands what science is.  Modern science, as commonly understood, absolutely does not make unfalsifiable negative assertions of that kind.

Aemilius said:
The habitual tendency, taken for granted, in modern Buddhism is that (in the scientific view) Indra, Brahma, Lokeshvara, Yaksha etc  are "mythical beings". Which again equals that they are nonexistent, in practical terms.

If we postulate that Indra etc exist, is that a falsiable statement concerning the nature of the universe?

Science is a collection of habitual and normative views.
And the universe is different in Dharma or in Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
Science doesn’t have a view of Indra, etc. The existence of Indra is not falsifiable, so, outside the range of scientific inquiry.

Mt. Meru, etc., on the other hand are falsifiable propositions. And guess what? It’s existence is false, there is no Mt. meru per se. Instead Meru cosmology is an Indian interpretation of the known world circa 400 CE. Even the HHDL acknowledges this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 8:40 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You should read article by Lance cousins. But in a short, shamathayana is the quick path.

Astus said:
But where do you see samatha taught in Zen to be succeeded by insight? It's been quite a central point almost from the beginning that samadhi and prajna are not separated (hence the Platform Sutra quote), and then in the teachings of Dogen and his heirs the unity of practice and realisation is affirmed regularly. Also, as Dogen put it in his first work after returning from China: 'Zazen is not the practice of dhyana it is just the dharma gate of ease and joy. It is the practice and verification of ultimate bodhi.' ( https://web.stanford.edu/~funn/zazen_instructions/Fukanzazengi.pdf; T2580_.82.0001b01-3)

Malcolm wrote:
You didn’t really read Cousins article, did you? BTW “ease and joy” are two mental factors accompanying the first dhyana. Practice and verification implies having a view and applying it in equipoise. Rhetoric is one thing, reality is another. As we know, shikantaza is just “shamatha/vipashyana” in Japanese.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 10:15 AM
Title: Re: Trump, Russian Asset
Content:


PeterC said:
(I don't think, though, that we should spend one minute trying to punish Russia in some way for this.  It's just what they and the US do and have been doing for more than half a century now.)

Malcolm wrote:
The US should not punish Russia, but we should put the squeeze on the oligarchs...for obvious reasons.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 10:12 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Matt J said:
This one?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 10:10 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:


Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
Rebirth is really not the kind of personal survival people think it is.

Malcolm wrote:
No one asserted it was, other than you,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 9:49 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Still śamathayāna.

Astus said:
Why do you call it such?

Malcolm wrote:
You should read article by Lance cousins. But in a short, shamathayana is the quick path.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 7:39 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So you keep claiming. "Continuum" is another convention, an empty label imposed on an empty appearance. It is no different than a nominal self, in this respect. So no, you err in asserting that I have accepted any such thing.

Your attempts at forcing consequences are cute, but ineffective.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
I do not have a problem that there is a continuum of habits or tendencies that transfers between births. We assume a metaphysical working for karma. It is beside the point.

But why this continuum is any more "you" than a gene is the question. Why is the continuum personal and a gene impersonal?

Let me put it this way: like genetic inheritance, a continuum of habits/tendencies/mental states is inherited by another person after the death of this person.

Where do you disagree?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no “person,” per se, other a label for a set of aggregates that have serial continuity. “ Continuity” itself is just a label for the appearance of a series of causes and conditions, but when examined, not continuity can be found as such. “Causes and conditions” are just a label for an appearance of arising of phenomena, but since these phenomena can’t be found, neither can their causes and conditions. None of these things—self, continuum, causes, conditions, etc. Asserting any of these things as truly existent is a metaphysical assertion. Accepting these things as conventions does not entail an acceptance of true existence in anyway. On the other hand, absence of functionality contradicts conventionality.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 5:47 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I have repeatedly pointed out that imputing a nonexistent self onto the aggregates for convenience of discourse is perfectly acceptable in Buddhadharma.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
But it is simply shorthand, like calling wood put together a certain way a "chair." You have taken it to be a metaphysical constant that transmigrates between births. You are doing it by accepting this idea of a "continuum."

Malcolm wrote:
So you keep claiming. "Continuum" is another convention, an empty label imposed on an empty appearance. It is no different than a nominal self, in this respect. So no, you err in asserting that I have accepted any such thing.

Your attempts at forcing consequences are cute, but ineffective.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 3:53 AM
Title: Re: Trump, Russian Asset
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
Really, so we just let it go with "everyone does it"?

Johnny Dangerous said:
No, but honestly, so what? A competing (well, kinda) nation state wants to destabilize America, spends a little money to get a demagogue elected that would be more favorable to them than the status quo...what is surprising or noteworthy there?

Malcolm wrote:
What is surprising is not that Russia and so on would want this, what is surprising is that so many Americans think it is not big deal, or express the lackadaisical attitude you've expressed here.


Johnny Dangerous said:
Personally, I rather like a world dominated by the US. YMMV.
Boy that sounds a lot like a modern reincarnation of the Domino Theory.

I am not remotely worried about Russia dominating the world nor am I particularly convinced that Russia had a primary role in bringing Trump to power, though I certainly acknowledge they wanted him there, and put a little intelligence effort into it.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't think I said that Russia had a primary role in putting Trump in office per se. They have been central to keeping Trump fat and happy for a long time as an asset, a useful idiot, that's what I've said. And that has had quite negative connotations for the Atlantic Alliance. This in turn has led to the arising of authoritarian regimes in Poland and Hungary, an increase in racism and antisemitism in all western countries, and so on.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Again, Russia's gonna support whatever seems to make the status quo less likely to succeed...I am not sure why people need to elevate that narrative into something unusual.

Malcolm wrote:
The point is not that it is unusual, indeed, everyone in the intelligence community is and has been quite aware of these facts for decades. The point is that we had an American President who aided Russia in its goal of destabilizing alliances which are crucial to US national security.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 3:44 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:



Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
That there is no constant found in any process of experience, including mental states, but that "you" will continue after death is a contradiction in terms.

Malcolm wrote:
No, when it is understood that the term "you" is simply a label for an appearance, i.e., a convention, there is no such contradiction in terms, unless one believes that all statements are ultimate statements, and clearly, the latter is not the case.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
You are still asserting a self of some form that remains constant in your experience, that fundamentally makes you and I different. I would like you to express that more clearly. What do you feel is constant throughout your lifetime that makes your rebirth "you" and not someone else being born in the future?

Malcolm wrote:
As I pointed out, the self you keep referring to is merely a nominal label for a continuum of addictive aggregates. In this lifetime I am called Malcolm. In some other lifetime, this continuum will be given another label. In a previous lifetime, it was also given a label, assuming that Buddha's teaching on rebirth is correct. In this lifetime, the only constant is my name. And even that changes, depending on context. In Tibet, everyone called me Kunga because Malcolm is hard on the Tibetan tongue.

I have repeatedly pointed out that imputing a nonexistent self onto the aggregates for convenience of discourse is perfectly acceptable in Buddhadharma. So what is it you find difficult to understand?   If I say "that car is a Ford, and that car is a Chevy" no  Buddhist in their right mind assumes that I am saying there is a truly existing Ford or Chevy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 3:22 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Matt J said:
Part of the problem with Zen is all the Zen-speak. A lot of the sources are ambiguous, in part I imagine due the ambiguity of the language (especially traditional Chinese), in part because specifics were likely reserved for oral teachings, and in part due to "beyond words" issue. Accordingly, meanings diverge, and people can interpret what they want.

The question is, without kensho, if everyone is already a Buddha and all practice is an expression of Buddhanature, then what's the point? If the practice of a master is the same as the practice of some one sitting in their fantasies, falling asleep, staring off into space, etc., then it seems no different than neo-Advaitins declaring that everything is perfect as it is and that one only need to give up the concept that things are imperfect (and in some cases, then asking for large donations or sex from students). In other words, delusion is enlightenment. It just seems like a form of philosophical nihilism, or worse, roleplaying (let's pretend we're Buddhas). It is like a group of short people sitting around saying "just remove the idea of smallness." they can believe what they want, but they won't be able to dunk a basketball.

Malcolm wrote:
And I would add, there are a lot of adherents of Zen, and supposed Zen teachers, who also add the study of Advaita to their resumes, such as Stephan Bodian.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 3:18 AM
Title: Re: Trump, Russian Asset
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Guys, Russia supposedly wanted to boost Bernie's campaign at one point too.

I mean, I find Trump nauseating on so many levels, in some ways the disaster of the last four years is hard to even contemplate. But seriously, this whole red scare thing just seems silly to me. It's also uneeded to describe the rise of Trump. The last election American's more than proved that we are capable of our own tremendous stupidity with very little outside influence, and of their own volition.

Malcolm wrote:
I disagree. Russia has been propping up Trump for years, through Deutsche Bank, and so on.


Johnny Dangerous said:
Intelligence agencies wrt to geopolitics make all kinds of calculations, assuming that there is some overarching plan "let's install the worst president in modern history" is giving them too much credit.

Malcolm wrote:
Trump was a very good president for Russia, all things considered.


Johnny Dangerous said:
I'm quite sure they wanted Trump in and put a little money down to the end, but damn, how is that controversial? The US does that kind of stuff as a matter of policy constantly, it is not a unique behavior of any nation to do that.

Malcolm wrote:
Really, so we just let it go with "everyone does it"?


Johnny Dangerous said:
The agency of these well..agencies is more diffuse, and their policy decisions are more abstract...there's no moral imperative there, just them wanting whatever might slightly weaken the US empire..which is a wide range of things.

Malcolm wrote:
Personally, I rather like a world dominated by the US. YMMV.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 3:14 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Whatever is a composite phenomena lacks self. Consciousness is a composite phenonmena. Consciousness therefore lacks a self.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
That there is no constant found in any process of experience, including mental states, but that "you" will continue after death is a contradiction in terms.

Malcolm wrote:
No, when it is understood that the term "you" is simply a label for an appearance, i.e., a convention, there is no such contradiction in terms, unless one believes that all statements are ultimate statements, and clearly, the latter is not the case.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 3:13 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There is a serial continuity of consciousness not present in genetic inheritance. One cannot inherit one's parent's minds.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
In this there is a getting into an "essentializing self" territory.

I do, in fact, inherit minds all the time. I am inheriting yours as we discuss.

Malcolm wrote:
Really, you are thinking my thoughts?

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
As well as from books, from stories. Thoughts are constantly being shared, transmitted. If not only through physical mediums, but the tradition speaks of telepathy...thoughts transmitted more instantaneously. We also do know, that biology contributes to the contours of one's "mental life." To see this any other way is to see the mind as a "thing" that is at the core of what makes you you.

Malcolm wrote:
What does this have to do with the Buddha's teaching on the subject?

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
And my contention is that there is no difference between a future body and mind a year later inheriting an older body and mind's intention to go to California, a new body and mind inheriting a dead person's karma, and a daughter inheriting the mother's tissue to form a physical body.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, well, you seem to be a physicalist, but this is not the intention of the Buddha's teaching.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
To feel like there is an essence that makes you you compared with another person other than apparent spatial and temporal separation is implying an essential self.

Malcolm wrote:
No, such a feeling is merely an error of cognition. It does not imply there is an essential self.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
That you feel like this is a denial of personal survival is interesting. You were, several posts back, stating that Buddhadharma does not imply personal continuity.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhadharma does not imply true or ultimate personal continuity. It states that there is a continuity of the addictive aggregates until the craving that drives that addiction ceases, and that is all. It allows for nominal personal continuity in much the same way that one can call the form cast by a bit of stick and clay onto a screen in a shadow puppet show an "elephant."

I have already stated this, and now I am repeating it to you again. You are failing to distinguish between the two truths here. Conventionally, a self is imputed onto the five aggregates, ultimately no such entity as a self can be found. If you cannot understand this, well, good luck.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 3:01 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Trying to redefine the Buddhist concept of rebirth in terms of genetic inheritance is just a massive fail on every level.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
Not at all. Shantideva put it in just about exactly the same way:
Meditation

Verse 98
To think that “I will have to suffer it”
In fact is but a false conception
In the present moment, “I” will perish;
At a later time, another will be born.

Verse 112
Why, then, not identify
Another’s body, calling it my “I”?
And vice versa, why should it be hard,
To think of this my body as another’s?

-Bodhicaryavatara

Malcolm wrote:
You are misusing this citation and taking it out of context. This is argumentation in bad faith.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
Although a seal produces a seal impression,
We don’t apprehend that the seal transmigrates.
It isn’t there [in the impression,] but nor are they wholly different.
In the same way, composite things are not annihilated and not eternal.

- https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/shantideva/#MetaNoSelfEmpt

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, this is why an individual mind stream can continue beyond this lifetime without being considered a self. Whatever is a composite phenomena lacks self. Consciousness is a composite phenonmena. Consciousness therefore lacks a self.

However, this does not indicate that one can inherit one's parents consciousness and their karma. So again, you are arguing in bad faith and taking the citation out of context.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 1:11 AM
Title: Re: Mahakala as Yidam
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
I believe there are 13 versions of 6 arm Mahakala in variou colors, etc. Karma Kagyu focuses on a 2 arm standing black Mahakala.

AmidaB said:
Are those practised as a yidam in their respective lineages?

Malcolm wrote:
Mahakala is practiced as a yidam in all schools of Tibetan Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 12:05 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This basically consists only of teaching the śamathayāna. So, we can understand that zazen is śamatha. In śamatha, insight can occur naturally.

Astus said:
'Good friends, our teaching takes meditation and wisdom as its fundamental. Everyone, do not say in your delusion that meditation and wisdom are different.

Malcolm wrote:
Still śamathayāna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, February 2nd, 2021 at 12:03 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:


Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
What, then, is the difference between saying a new body and personality is born in the future that inherits the results of the actions of this one, and a son or daughter being born that inherits the genes of this body?

Malcolm wrote:
There is a serial continuity of consciousness not present in genetic inheritance. One cannot inherit one's parent's minds.

You do realize these issues have been discussed to death here for more than a decade?

The classical defense of rebirth may be found in the Pramāṇavārttika by Dharmakīrti. There really isn't anything one can add here to improve upon his arguments.

Then there is the Mahānidānasutta, which is perhaps the clearest statement by the Buddha about the process of rebirth. Also, denying rebirth constitutes wrong view, or so the Buddha has said in many places, the wrong view of annihilationism, just as the assertion of a uncompounded self constitutes eternalism.

Trying to redefine the Buddhist concept of rebirth in terms of genetic inheritance is just a massive fail on every level. You don't have to believe in rebirth, but by denying rebirth one denies the very problem Buddha set out to solve. And by rejecting rebirth, one rejects the Buddha's teachings in toto.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 11:01 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:


jimmi said:
If, as per Matylda’s critique, Soto teachers are for the most part lacking in the correct understanding of “practice as enlightenment” well, it’s clear where that will go. How can students be expected to do the work and arrive at authentic Shikantaza if those tasked with transmitting the necessary understanding have themselves fallen short? It makes the adage that Zen cannot be practiced without a teacher somewhat problematic.

Malcolm wrote:
Cue Astus.

Astus said:
That's the difficult consequence of the dharma-transmission lineage concept: either every lineage member is a buddha, or the whole concept falls apart. But such an idealist view of the lineage can function only on paper.

'This [practice] relies on the mystical and authentic transmission of the subtle method from master to disciple, and the [disciple’s] reception and maintenance of the true essence of the teachings.'
(Bendowa, in SBGZ, BDK ed, vol 1, p 5; T2582_.82.0015c24-26)

And that subtle method (妙術) transmitted correctly (正傳) is zazen (坐禪):

'Great Master Śākyamuni exactly transmitted, as the authentic tradition, this subtle method of grasping the state of truth, and the tathāgatas of the three times all attained the truth through zazen. Thus the fact that [zazen] is the authentic gate has been transmitted and received. Furthermore,
the patriarchs of the Western Heavens and the Eastern Lands all attained the truth through zazen. Therefore I am now preaching [zazen] to human beings and gods as the authentic gate.'
(p 7-8; T2582_.82.0016c11-17)


Malcolm wrote:
This basically consists only of teaching the śamathayāna. So, we can understand that zazen is śamatha. In śamatha, insight can occur naturally.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 10:26 PM
Title: Re: Commentaries on Prajnamaparamita 25000 & 8000 lines?
Content:
Padmist said:
Do you know of any?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. Gareth Spareham has translated both in his three volume set on the Abhisamayalamkara. He also translated Tsongkhapa’s excellent commentary on the same.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 10:24 PM
Title: Re: Transcendent reality in Buddhism
Content:
Aemilius said:
Human beings are not the only realm or the only level of existence in Mahayana or Sravakayana Dharma. The realms of Devas, Yakshas, Nagas, etc.. exist, the realms of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas exist. Beginningless reincarnation exists. Vast time scales exist. Sutras, Dharanis, Mantras, oral commentaries and other teachings exist in different realms, on different levels of existence. Supranormal powers (abhijña) exist. Modern science is like a single anthill in a great forest of a planet in a vast galaxy of stars, which thinks that there is nothing else, and no other conscious beings exist anywhere in the world.

Malcolm wrote:
Modern science is not a monolithic entity.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 10:21 PM
Title: Re: Mahakala as Yidam
Content:
AmidaB said:
Tashi Delek to all of you!

After I have eaten myself through William Stablein's dissertation on the Mahakala Tantra and the 'Healing Image' I am curious which schools, traditions or lineages approach and emphasize Mahakala as a yidam deity.

Best,
ab

Malcolm wrote:
All.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 10:10 PM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:
Supramundane said:
Some people seem to be implying that rebirth is a collective event, as opposed to an individual one.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
I think you are right. There is a paradox in all of this, in karma/rebirth perpetuating individuality/self-grasping on the one hand, and teachings on selflessness on the other, one where I do not see the tradition satisfactorily reconcile. Maybe we can say that it is the tendency to self-grasp that causes karma/rebirth, but it's hard to ignore there is influence also going the other way. For example, when I vow to attain liberation in future lives, I am self-grasping. When I fear the results of my karma in a future life, I am also self-grasping. It is a self-perpetuating cycle.

Malcolm wrote:
Rebirth is the problem Buddhadharma endeavors to resolve. You are claiming that it’s solution to this problem is something other than the recognition that there is no permanent, uncompounded entity, a self, that undergoes a transition from one lifetime to another is faulty because the Buddha affirms an imputed or conventional self which does not truly exist.

There is no difference between saying I will attain buddhahood in some unspecified number of rebirths than there is to say next year I am going to California. In neither case is this an assertion of a permanent, uncompounded self. This is seeming contradiction is addressed by the Buddha in such sutras as the Vajraccheddika, where it is said, “The bodhisattva, recognizing that sentient beings do not exist, vows to lead all sentient beings to nirvana.”

“Self-grasping” means believing that there is a permanent uncompounded entity which transitions from one moment to another without change. As Matt pointed out, the very fact of cognition means a consciousness cannot be a self. Your paradox is false.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 9:54 PM
Title: Re: Trump, Russian Asset
Content:


Brunelleschi said:
Alright, I posted and removed this but here goes.

This is, as far as I know, the proven influence of the Russians on the 2016 election when it comes to Ads. According to Google's CEO around ~$4700 was spent. I fail to see how that would influence the contest between Trump and Clinton which cost around $2,65 Billions.

Bristollad said:
Because paying for adverts on Google was not the full extent of Russia’s effort and involvement.

Brunelleschi said:
Yeah no one said that. I however showed what there is proof of in regards to Russian influence when it came to ads. Obviously $4700 is nothing compared to the vast sums of money being spent.

There was no evidence found by Mueller that Trump or any of his aides coordinated election interference in 2016 with the Russian government (from: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/24/us/politics/mueller-report-summary.html )

This is of course only my view and it could very well be wrong. However, I do notice that you fail to rebuke the point nor provide any sources of your own. So please, show what there is hard proof of and we can have a discussion regarding its impact and what that means - if you so please.

Malcolm wrote:
And how much money was spent by Russians on Twitter and Facebook...that’s much more relevant.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-how-much-money-russians-spent-twitter-facebook-ads-20170928-htmlstory.html


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 12:03 PM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Buddhadharma does not view rebirth as personal continuity.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
When you talk about your rebirths, you are indeed asserting this.

Malcolm wrote:
No, in fact we are not, no more than when I say say I am responding to your assertion it is necessarily  implied there is an essential agent engaged in an action.

These things are merely conventions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 11:25 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:


Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
I agree, Matt. I think to assume you have a personalized series of rebirths different from my series of rebirths is to posit something fundamentally different between you and I. At its core, it is eternalist.


Malcolm wrote:
This is an unsupported assertion. For example, no one asserts that the causes and conditions which produce corn necessarily produce wheat.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
If subjectivity was truly atemporal/nonlocal,

Malcolm wrote:
This term is introduced as an an unverified assumption.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
o think of rebirth as a form of personal continuity is actually a self-grasping of the conceptual mind. This hints at that:

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhadharma does not view rebirth as personal continuity.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 5:51 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
clyde said:
I agree that “practice as enlightenment” is open to misunderstandings and it is the duty of teachers to help their students by pointing to a correct understanding. But it also incumbent on the student to do the work of seeing through their delusions to a realization.

jimmi said:
If, as per Matylda’s critique, Soto teachers are for the most part lacking in the correct understanding of “practice as enlightenment” well, it’s clear where that will go. How can students be expected to do the work and arrive at authentic Shikantaza if those tasked with transmitting the necessary understanding have themselves fallen short? It makes the adage that Zen cannot be practiced without a teacher somewhat problematic.

Malcolm wrote:
Cue Astus.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:




Malcolm wrote:
Buddhist scholars for centuries have argued a) mind streams (cittasaṃtana) are individual b) that they do not constitute a self because they are compounded entities. The facet of being compounded is in general explained through a theory of momentariness. In order for there to be an irreducible self, the mind stream would have to a permanent entity moving through time. As there is no such thing as a permanent entity at all, there is also no irreducible self. "Self" is just a convention applied to the series of aggregates, much in the same way we apply the label "car" to an assembly of metal, plastic, and rubber.

PadmaVonSamba said:
For the sake of clarity as it pertains to this discussion, on what basis is the statement (I highlighted it in red) established? Is it said to lack permanence because it moves through time?

Malcolm wrote:
Permanent entities cannot arise from impermanent entities; they must necessarily produce themselves. "Arising from self" is negated in all the Buddha's teachings, and common experience shows that there are no permanent entities that are observable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 4:01 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:
Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
I understand the distinctions like that too. Awareness as atemporal and nonlocal. And if so, it does not follow that "it" has an individualized series of rebirths in the sense of how we say it. What I mean is, someone being born right now equally has this "awareness," it is another birth of this awareness.

Malcolm wrote:
To speak of a birth of anything means it is compounded, temporal, and localized in a set of causes and conditions. Therefore, to claim both that an awareness is born and that it is atemporal and nonlocal is a contradiction in terms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 3:59 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:


Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
I think we should get clear about what we mean when we say "I wake up." If I am an individualized consciousness, an irreducible self, different from others, that remembers a continuity and grasps other forms of aggregates to quench my cravings, that which makes me know that my life 10 years ago is my life, we might as well acknowledge that.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddhist scholars for centuries have argued a) mind streams (cittasaṃtana) are individual b) that they do not constitute a self because they are compounded entities. The facet of being compounded is in general explained through a theory of momentariness. In order for there to be an irreducible self, the mind stream would have to a permanent entity moving through time. As there is no such thing as a permanent entity at all, there is also no irreducible self. "Self" is just a convention applied to the series of aggregates, much in the same way we apply the label "car" to an assembly of metal, plastic, and rubber.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 2:57 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Food for thought:
Therefore, the fascination with and yearning for unmediated religious experience may be more a reflection of modern Western preoccupations than an inherent quality of Zen Buddhism. Sharf claims that the role of ‘experience’ may have been exaggerated in contemporary scholarship on Zen. He argues that historical and ethnographic evidence suggests that the privileging of experience may well be traced to twentieth-century Zen reform movements that urged a ‘return’ to Zen meditation (especially the Sanbōkyōdan movement, see below), and that these reforms were profoundly influenced by religious developments in the West. Sharf even controversially claims that ‘Zen monastic training in contemporary Japan continues to emphasize physical discipline and ritual competence, while little if any attention is paid to inner experience’.
https://www.academia.edu/2269031/Zen_spirituality_in_a_secular_age_Charles_Taylor_and_Zen_Buddhism_in_the_West?email_work_card=title


Matylda said:
Well Sanbokyodan has no influence in Japan. Close to zero. They cannot compete with rinzai, soto or even with obaku which is the smallest zen school in Japan. Its founder Yasutani Hakuun was very influenced by Daiun  roshi of Hosshinji. But the group later on was never strong. As for quality of their kensho testimonies there are meny questions in Japan, but generally nobody takes care of their claims. I do not say that there is something wrong with them and in fact they had dozens of foreign students, but they are not very convincing anyway. I mean in Japan.

Inner experience in Japanese monasteries. That is interesting phenomenon. One has to be aware that there are no people looking for awakening. Soto or rinzai does not matter. There are young boys from family temples who must have to go through monastic training. In soto one year in rinzai 3 years. Young boys are young boys. In rinzai when they stay for 3 years have 6 sesshins a year and twice a day dokusan. They practice koan but after maybe a few months will be permitted to go on with more koans, so they pass so called 1st hosshin koan without much experience.

In zen - rinzai or soto does not matter it was kensho or satori which allowed one to go on further koans. Toaday it is not so. But it does not mean that it is all fine and ok. Some teachers point out that it is fruitless. Some say something different and give at least some reason.

If we read biographies of famous masters, all of them had kensho satori etc. even in the XX century, not only in some hazy ancient times. But it happens so rarely today.
About shikan taza I wrote already at length so there is no point to repeat it. Only one sentence - shikan taza never excluded kensho or satori. Never.


Malcolm wrote:
I think the author is trying to point out that there is a bit of a Pizza effect happening here. D.T. Suzuki imported William James' notion of religious experience from his book Varieties of Religious Experience to Japan; this interested the Kyoto school, Sanbokyodan, etc., this in turn caused the latter tradition to export a version of Zen to the West which is profoundly informed by Western ideas about religious experience. Varieties of Religious Experience was catalyzed by William James' experiments with Nitrous Oxide.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, February 1st, 2021 at 1:35 AM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
but a individual consciousness, conditioned by affliction and action, does appropriate a new series aggregates.

Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
So there is an irreducible essence to a person, if I understand correctly.

Malcolm wrote:
No, there are just coalescence of causes and conditions that have no beginning.

An individual consciousness, like seed, is a dependently-originated composite, impermanent phenomena; for example, if there is no form, there can be no eye consciousness; if there is no organ of sight, there can be no eye consciousness; if there is no consciousness, an eye consciousness cannot arise. Because three things come together: the organ of sight, a consciousness, and a form, there is eye consciousness.

The Buddha that a putative person has five aggregates in order to show that there was no self. The five aggregates are matter, sensation, perception, mental formations, and consciousness. They do not constitute a self together, there is no self in one of them individually, and there is no self apart from them. The five aggregates constantly arise together based on cause and condition. Though nothing is transferred from this life to the next, there is nevertheless serial continuity of a given psycho-physical continuum.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 31st, 2021 at 10:35 PM
Title: Re: The oddity of rebirth
Content:
Dhalsim's Pratyahara said:
There are mentions in Buddhism of a mind stream that passes from one life to the next until enlightenment, which realizes the lack of an individual self and it (or "something") is released from suffering, but it is hard to ignore that this is a rephrasing of the Hindu atman or Jain jiva released by merging with the brahman (Hinduism) or the jiva floating to the top of the universe (Jainism).

Without a soul, a self, an essence that separates you and I, on what basis can one say there is personal continuation after death?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no personal continuation: but a individual consciousness, conditioned by affliction and action, does appropriate a new series aggregates.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 31st, 2021 at 8:21 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Matt J said:
But in current Soto, there is no need to demonstrate understanding via dokusan or any other form. Rather, sufficient ritual mastery is often the primary requirement to be a certified Zen master, potentially with some amount of prior formal training as well.

clyde said:
That doesn’t match my experience and observation of Soto Zen, its teachers and students, in the Bay Area, mostly of the Suzuki Roshi lineage.

Malcolm wrote:
You hit the nail on the head...in the Bay Area.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 31st, 2021 at 2:37 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
clyde said:
Matylda’s critique and her expressed disappointment in Soto seems to suggest that Soto Zen, as taught and practiced today and especially in the West, is of little or no value and that, as she suggested to me, we would be better going elsewhere.

Am I mistaken about her view of Soto?

Malcolm wrote:
Clyde, I think the disconnect you are seeing is that in Japan, Soto is a religious institution, a major function of which is to do funerary rites, etc. They serve a client population with rituals. I am sure this is also true with Rinzai, etc.

These services are not generally requested by Westerners, some of whom seem to think they are going to become enlightened or think they already are, regarding "practice" as a performative demonstration of their innate enlightenment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 31st, 2021 at 2:09 AM
Title: Re: Nopales
Content:


DNS said:
You can usually find them in any Latino style grocery.

Malcolm wrote:
Or likely, in your backyard.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 31st, 2021 at 12:05 AM
Title: Re: Genealogies of Mahāyāna Buddhism: Emptiness, Power and the Question of Origin
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
How is this review of the book to those who've read it?

https://jcrt.org/religioustheory/2019/10/23/review-genealogies-of-mahayana-buddhism-ananda-abeysekara/

Malcolm wrote:
Good review, it’s why I bought Walser’s book. I would add, however, that his knowledge of Tibetan Buddhist schools is rather shaky, and he makes blunders which indicate this.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 30th, 2021 at 11:42 PM
Title: Re: What do ACADEMICS say are the origins of Avalokiteshvara and Amitabha?
Content:
tkp67 said:
No.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 30th, 2021 at 8:13 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Food for thought:
Therefore, the fascination with and yearning for unmediated religious experience may be more a reflection of modern Western preoccupations than an inherent quality of Zen Buddhism. Sharf claims that the role of ‘experience’ may have been exaggerated in contemporary scholarship on Zen. He argues that historical and ethnographic evidence suggests that the privileging of experience may well be traced to twentieth-century Zen reform movements that urged a ‘return’ to Zen meditation (especially the Sanbōkyōdan movement, see below), and that these reforms were profoundly influenced by religious developments in the West. Sharf even controversially claims that ‘Zen monastic training in contemporary Japan continues to emphasize physical discipline and ritual competence, while little if any attention is paid to inner experience’.
https://www.academia.edu/2269031/Zen_spirituality_in_a_secular_age_Charles_Taylor_and_Zen_Buddhism_in_the_West?email_work_card=title


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 30th, 2021 at 7:44 PM
Title: Re: What do ACADEMICS say are the origins of Avalokiteshvara and Amitabha?
Content:
Queequeg said:
I agree with the gist of what you're saying. But faith, even one that is not connected to any verifiable truth is not condemned per se. It's the failure to safeguard truth that is the problem. It's when one says on faith, only this is true, all else false, that faith
of any degree becomess a problem. That is the disposition of a closed mind. Proceeding on our best information, lacking actual knowledge, is what most of us do most of the time. This is  basically the definition of a deluded being who has not overcome delusion... as long as delusion remains, by definition there are things we don't know and don't even know we don't know. So long as we are open to new information, we keep the path to awakening open. The moment we think we know all there is to know, no matter how much we know, we've closed the path to awakening.

The Buddha didn't preclude the path of prasada. It might not be a direct path, but even such naive faith is accepted for those who cannot manage more. We have a responsibility for our one eyed kin.

Malcolm wrote:
Our traditions are at odds then. Blind faith is never acceptable for anyone.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 30th, 2021 at 10:02 AM
Title: Trump, Russian Asset
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 30th, 2021 at 4:57 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Translation Help
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
siddhi all master bliss great feet

Seeker12 said:
How does feet fit in here? On lotsawahouse it's translated as "Master of all siddhis, Guru of Great Bliss", is it something about like sitting at the lotus feet of the guru or something?

Malcolm wrote:
zhabs is pāda, it is an honorific, mahasukhapāda, bde ba chen po'i zhabs, it is a title of the Guru Rinpoche.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 30th, 2021 at 3:59 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Translation Help
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
དུས་གསུམ་སངས་རྒྱས་གུ་རུ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ༔

times three buddha guru precious


དངོས་གྲུབ་ཀུན་བདག་བདེ་བ་ཆེན་པོའི་ཞབས༔

siddhi all master bliss great feet


བར་ཆད་ཀུན་སེལ་བདུད་འདུལ་དྲག་པོ་རྩལ༔

obstacles all remove māra tamer fierce powerful



གསོལ་བ་འདེབས་སོ་བྱིན་གྱིས་བརླབ་ཏུ་གསོལ༔

supplicate request give blessing please


ཕྱི་ནང་གསང་བའི་བར་ཆད་ཞི་བ་དང༌༔

outer inner secret obstacles pacify


བསམ་པ་ལྷུན་གྱིས་འགྲུབ་པར་བྱིན་གྱིས་རློབས༔

wishes effortlessly accomplish give blessing


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 30th, 2021 at 2:08 AM
Title: Re: How Mentally Ill Prisoners are Treated in the United States
Content:
Matt J said:
When you say intoxicated, are you including alcohol? Because JD claim was that decriminalizing drugs would empty out the prisons. In this case, AFAIK, alcohol is legal in the U.S. presuming you are over 21.

Malcolm wrote:
And rightly so, a significant majority of people (I can find a stat, but not right now) in American prisons who are incarcerated for non-drug related offenses were intoxicated when the offense was committed.
Sure, booze may be legal, but it sure is at the root of a lot of criminal behavior.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 30th, 2021 at 1:53 AM
Title: Re: Tibetan Translation Help
Content:
Seeker12 said:
Hello,

I'm wondering if anyone could help me with a word-by-word translation for a six line prayer in Tibetan. I know a good deal of the words, it's just pieces here and there that I'm trying to figure out. Ideally just a couple of PMs would do it. Thanks for consideration.

Malcolm wrote:
post it


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 30th, 2021 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: How Mentally Ill Prisoners are Treated in the United States
Content:
Prison Policy Initiative said:
Nevertheless, 4 out of 5 people in prison or jail are locked up for something other than a drug offense — either a more serious offense or an even less serious one.

Johnny Dangerous said:
So yeah, I think I'd take issue with this,

Malcolm wrote:
And rightly so, a significant majority of people (I can find a stat, but not right now) in American prisons who are incarcerated for non-drug related offenses were intoxicated when the offense was committed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 30th, 2021 at 12:06 AM
Title: Re: What do ACADEMICS say are the origins of Avalokiteshvara and Amitabha?
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
I found that engaging with academic scholarship can kill your faith. At least for the young and impressionable like I was when I was exploring buddhism in this way. Might not be worth it.

Malcolm wrote:
Only if your faith is blind.

Queequeg said:
I think the sentiment behind this goes too far. The path needs to be open for people of all capacities, not just the geniuses and the vain who think they're geniuses. Sometimes, life presents such circumstances that faith is all a person has. Or, at the beginning stages when one doesn't have the breadth of knowledge and experience to discern the path, faith serves as the vehicle. Faith is the universal gateway. Which is why those who teach faith paths ought to be held to the highest standards.

Malcolm wrote:
There are three kinds of faith identified by the Indian masters: blind faith, aspiring faith, and confident faith. The latter two are workable. The first results in Qanon. When I first met a real Dharma teacher, it was made very clear that to me that blind faith was very undesirable.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 10:18 PM
Title: Re: Funeral Homes are Overwhelmed
Content:
KathyLauren said:
There may be market opportunities in the fight against covid, but the marketplace could never have prevented it.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, of course not.

KathyLauren said:
Even with good leadership, Americans will always put their personal wants ahead of the public good.  You can debate which policies make it worse, but the problem is based on the values on which your nation was founded.  Policies will not make it go away.

Malcolm wrote:
This is not a uniquely American flaw. Example, Britain.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 9:03 PM
Title: Re: Funeral Homes are Overwhelmed
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Our society has spent so long now with the mantra of "efficiency" and "free market" being synonymous that we've now "efficiency-ed" ourselves and our family members out of dying of Covid with a shred of dignity...especially if you're poor. It's so disgusting it's hard to put into words.

Malcolm wrote:
Blaming capitalism is facile, anyone with half a brain could see a huge market opportunity in preventing covid. Instead, populism handed us this crisis.

The problem is politics, not economics, the sane goes for climate change.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I disagree, decades of neoliberalism have affected our response to this directly, it's been a race to the bottom for "efficiency" (i.e. taking apart the commons) and whether it's not being able to produce or own PPE efficiently, or expecting "da marketplace" to take care of what it clearly cannot, economic policy is a big player in the equation.

Malcolm wrote:
Economic policy is politics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 11:16 AM
Title: Re: How Mentally Ill Prisoners are Treated in the United States
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Well, it’s not just poor people; our justice system is racist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 11:01 AM
Title: Re: Funeral Homes are Overwhelmed
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Our society has spent so long now with the mantra of "efficiency" and "free market" being synonymous that we've now "efficiency-ed" ourselves and our family members out of dying of Covid with a shred of dignity...especially if you're poor. It's so disgusting it's hard to put into words.

Malcolm wrote:
Blaming capitalism is facile, anyone with half a brain could see a huge market opportunity in preventing covid. Instead, populism handed us this crisis.

The problem is politics, not economics, the sane goes for climate change.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 10:54 AM
Title: Re: What do ACADEMICS say are the origins of Avalokiteshvara and Amitabha?
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
I found that engaging with academic scholarship can kill your faith. At least for the young and impressionable like I was when I was exploring buddhism in this way. Might not be worth it.

Malcolm wrote:
Only if your faith is blind.

SilenceMonkey said:
Good point. Like I said, in the beginning of the journey when young and impressionable. With not much else to go on than western academia.

It takes a good while for faith to develop beyond the level of blind faith. And it doesn't come about through academics, but Dharma study and practice. A lot of students starting to learn about Dharma will confuse academia with Dharma.

Malcolm wrote:
People need to make up their own minds. We just explain what Dharna is and what it is not. Trying to condition people is an error.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 10:38 AM
Title: Re: Mansplaining Women’s Enlightenment
Content:
PeterC said:
The book sounds completely idiotic.

Queequeg said:
Karen needs shanti, too.



PeterC said:
"I teach suffering and the ending of suffering"

"You can't come in here talking about suffering. I'm an American citizen, I have Rights under The Constitution, no immigrant is going to tell me I have to suffer, I want to talk to your manager about this, it's illegal for you to make me suffer!"

"This is the noble truth of the causes of suffering: the desire that makes for further becoming - accompanied by passion and delight..."

"You're saying that I can't have happiness.  I know the Constitution, it says there that every American can pursue happiness, at least I think it's the constitution, but you know what, I don't need to read it, I know it's there, and you're telling me that I can't be happy.  You know what you are?  You're a communist.  A leftist communist fascist. You're unamerican.  If you don't like it here why don't you go back to your shithole country like president trump said?"

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, pretty much explains one half of the country...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 10:36 AM
Title: Re: What do ACADEMICS say are the origins of Avalokiteshvara and Amitabha?
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
I found that engaging with academic scholarship can kill your faith. At least for the young and impressionable like I was when I was exploring buddhism in this way. Might not be worth it.

Malcolm wrote:
Only if your faith is blind.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 6:42 AM
Title: Re: What do ACADEMICS say are the origins of Avalokiteshvara and Amitabha?
Content:
Queequeg said:
Its really genius that a religious path was developed consciously using this suspension of belief. That is a HUGE departure from most other religions that assert their stories are factually 100% true and will kill you for not believing.

Malcolm wrote:
I am pretty sure that educated Indian knew that the narratives in Mahāyāna sūtras were not meant to be taken literally. They are largely emblematic, it's only outside of India where people started killing each other over what were, in India, merely emblematic narratives that served didactic, rather than historical, purposes. We see this here all the time, with notions of Mappo, and triumphalism of this school over that when all of us are actually just schmucks who have barely scratched the surface of the Mahāyāna path of accumulation, let alone even come anywhere near the path of seeing.



Queequeg said:
So I think there are two ways of looking at the academic study of Buddhism. One is as the social scientist, as one who actually does the academic work. The other is to take the fruits of the social scientist, particularly the translations.

Malcolm wrote:
Sometimes i read with interest what people say, like Walser, etc. Mostly, I am just looking for sources.


Queequeg said:
I guess to an extent the views I'm expressing here are based on my idiosyncratic adventure in the Academy as a practicing Buddhist studying Buddhism. It was not without confusion, which I was warned about by my Buddhist advisors - both of my advisors were practicing Buddhists and I think they held some sympathy for me, for which I'm grateful. The atmosphere they fostered, however, may have also contributed to my confusion about the distinctions between Buddhism as an object of academic inquiry and Buddhism as a path. I'm passing on a warning to youngsters who might go down that path. Hopefully they're more savvy that I was, and if not, behold my scars and abandoned dead ends, wasted time and thought processes.

Malcolm wrote:
I hear you. People in Buddhist studies mainly write about what other people in Buddhist studies write. For example, there is a guy named David Drewes, as far as I can tell, he has no actual interest in Early Mahāyāna, but he is really interested in dredging through 150 years of Western Academic scholarship in this paper: https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/35500600/Drewes-_Early_Mahayana_I_rev._ed.pdf?1415632234=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DEarly_Indian_Mahayana_Buddhism_I_Recent.pdf&Expires=1611877106&Signature=Rhb3hudRIJS9EWKTIfxEPBjc7ABp4ZcSq7lgXMEU3LTh0XmZQn46DPKPDUt06S-DY1oJo0QNclwSIeUImczehBakTKQBDIDZNJXh6JY3TMaZYvBA0Nz8Tupyc1WPGIetNj-czEmCGAwmfin2C0QopamNhpxXcGHS~deCw-MH6e-z9n-8~tVHmtMnwW29sbihgrwSjE-gCxwnt7BSuOolTy8UeJQ4hMqoAQhYe-PbJtWQzodwRLbp3Go2y6eVWfvatttOb~NXqX~YPkLglt1JtnB-JotC~5fv94L3iijjpYRWfig5AN3le7NmMYfgNTbWcX16rgQTa1OCbOn9s6FsyA__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA.

You can see from his paper, that Buddhology is as equally involved with critiquing Western scholarship as it is in examining primary sources.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 5:36 AM
Title: Re: Funeral Homes are Overwhelmed
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yup, thanks to Donald F@#cking Trump and other idiotic world leaders who did not act in a timely fashion. Their hands are covered in blood.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 5:15 AM
Title: Re: What do ACADEMICS say are the origins of Avalokiteshvara and Amitabha?
Content:
Queequeg said:
I don't know if there is anything monolithic we can actually work with like "the Indian mind." Even if there was, the records of extensive, hair splitting debates suggests "the Indian mind" has a penchant for endless disputation rather than a simple smiling acceptance of divergent details.

Malcolm wrote:
They tended to argue about atoms and first principles, not narrative tropes.


I
Queequeg said:
can buy a widespread attitude of just shrugging details off implicitly acknowledging "its all just stories anyway" said with an Indian shake of the head.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, this is what I am saying. Why else could someone set down in writing a tale clearly related to the Ramayāna with a straight face in a Buddhist tantra of authentic Indian provenance?


Queequeg said:
In a practice context I grok the way fictions are freely utilized for certain salvific or edifying purposes and participated in in a manner that takes the fictions as true. Running out of the burning house to claim deer carts, goat carts and ox carts, and all that. But, I also don't think I have to search very hard for people who have lost interest in Dharma because they found out that the Mahayana sutras were written half a millennia after the parinirvana, if that even happened. There's a whole movement of Buddhists trying to save for themselves what they can by excising what doesn't fit with their scientific truths.

Malcolm wrote:
These people don't believe in siddhis. They are fairy killers, homicidally bent on lynching Tinker Bell.

Queequeg said:
Anyway, my point was, an academic approach to Buddhism is not necessarily going to be helpful for practice, and may well not be compatible. For some people. The academic study of Buddhism is not Buddhism. Its social science.

Malcolm wrote:
Depends on the person. I find lots of benefit in academic studies, if only because the Academy translates a lot of stuff from Sanskrit, Chinese, Tibetan, etc. I just ignore their conclusions, where I don't agree, or snort in derision at some of their total lack of real knowledge of what they are studying. And some academics, while not personally interested in practice, like Robert Mayer, nevertheless do excellent work.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 3:41 AM
Title: Re: What do ACADEMICS say are the origins of Avalokiteshvara and Amitabha?
Content:
Queequeg said:
hey can, through the use of the various tools of analysis at their disposal, offer informative answers about things like the origin of Amitabha, but that information is not really useful to buddhasmrti practice and could actually be discouraging and a hindrance... "You mean Amitabha is Ahura Mazda?"

tingdzin said:
Yes, I would say that if you don't have a mind that can see nuances, or is not capable of holding on to two seemingly contradictory views, you might be well advised to concentrate on practice and not dip your toe into scholarship. If you are an experienced practitioner whose primary focus is still practice, then scholarship can be quite useful, for the reasons mentioned above.

Queequeg said:
Case by case. There's not a lot of nuance once one starts poking around in the origins of the Mahayana and Vajrayana pantheon. The faithful versions and the academic versions often say very different things that no amount of nuance is going to resolve. Avoiding specifics, when a deity is a central focus in a tradition, with a back story that puts it squarely in the Buddhadharma tradition, and then you look at academic studies that show this was the totem deity of some tribe or caste in the distant past, in a religious system that had nothing to do with Buddhism... how do you then interpret a teacher's claims that they had a spiritual communion with this deity and received sacred instructions? To keep it up is going to require some serious fudging of details or putting up firewalls in the mind.

I'm fully open to accepting I'm one of those people who lack the intellectual finesse to reconcile divergent claims over the same intellectual geography.

Malcolm wrote:
The Indian mind was a lot more flexible about such issues. This is why one sees tropes shared with the Ramayāna that show up recontextualized in a Buddhist context, for example, to explain the origins of the Buddhist protectress, Śṛīdevi Mahākālī.  Śṛīdevi is known originally named Sita Śankhapāla. She elopes with Dasagriva aka Ravanna, having been tricked into it by Dasagriva's sister, Remati. Umadevi (the worldly manifestation of the protectress Ekajati), her mother disowns her, and Sita Śankhapāla takes on the form of a rakṣasī as a result, etc., eventually to be tamed by the Brahmin Vararuci. Since as far as I am concerned this is a myth and the myth of Sita's abduction by Ravanna have equal standing as a myth, I don't worry about it too much. In Tibet, different schools have different accounts of the taming of Rudra, all based on Indian sources, they are often in conflict about details, and no one blinks an eyelash. Indeed, in the same school different tantric cycles will have differing explanations of the taming of Rudra, and again, no one bats an eyelash. The validity of the practice has more to do with whether one can manifest siddhis from it, rather than whether or not it fits some neurotic compulsion to reconcile different narratives. For example, in Shingon, it is maintained that the tantras were first revealed by Vajrasattva in an iron towed in South India. In Tibet, in the Sarma schools, it is generally maintained that the tantras were also revealed in South India by a king who travelled to Oddiyāna and received them a siddha yoginī who was descendent from Nāgas. In Nyingma, it is generally held they were first revealed by a king in Zahor named Dza. While there is a bit of bickering back and forth between the Nyingmas and the Sarma schools over the accuracy of the interpretation of the King Dza account, not one really cares that much. Then, of course, the Bonpos claim they are the source of everything, but no one pays them much mind either. When Buddhists resort to the services of Bonpo Lamas it is because the latter have siddhi, not because Buddhists accept Bonpo history. But talk of siddhis will get you shut down pretty fast in the Academy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 29th, 2021 at 1:46 AM
Title: Re: Books on Early Mahayana Development, History and Sutras
Content:


Aemilius said:
I agree. But that is the nature of the present cultural situation and the situation within Buddhism. Buddhism indeed puts you into a messianic position, if you decide to trust  your own spiritual experiences and what they tell you. It is not only messianic, it also accords with what the Buddha has promised to all his followers who put his teachings into practice.

Malcolm wrote:
And sometimes is happens that Māra appears to you in the guise of the Buddha, or a bodhisattva, or a ḍākinī and declares, "This will be your name, this will be the place where you attain buddhahood, this will be your retinue" etc. The deceptions of Māra are many, genuine experiences on the path is rare. Especially in the West, but also among Chinese people, there are many people deluded by Māra, who do not rely on qualified teachers, and carry others along in their deluded vision.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 28th, 2021 at 6:29 AM
Title: Re: Academic Sources on Development of Vajrayana
Content:
tingdzin said:
in fact little in common at all except perhaps in terms of ritual structures (and some scholars think that ritual structures are in fact the defining feature of "tantra"). If one does define tantra in this way, then one could say that "tantra" can be found in non-Vajrayana Buddhism. It all depends on how one uses the words.

Malcolm wrote:
The earliest text we know of to be titled a "tantra" is the fabled Agniveśa Tantra, held to be the core text around which the Caraka Samhita is written. Caraka Samhita is the earliest Ayurvedic medical text, most likely written written somewhere around 100 BCE-100 CE.

In Tibetan Medicine, the word "tantra" is held to mean "to protect the body" from "tanu + tra."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 28th, 2021 at 5:18 AM
Title: Re: OCD
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I repetitively thought about things, it would prevent them from happening.

Malcolm wrote:
I suffered from that during the 2016 campaign...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 28th, 2021 at 4:43 AM
Title: Re: OCD
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
OCD thoughts and ruminations (as anyone with them will surely attest) aren't impulses involving much volition, they simply appear, and indeed they seem to sort of have a life of their own.

Malcolm wrote:
OCD appears to be a seizure disorder.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 28th, 2021 at 4:11 AM
Title: Re: Academic Sources on Development of Vajrayana
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
What do you think of the term "mantrayana?" I personally find it more precise than "Vajrayana" and wish it had more widespread use.

Malcolm wrote:
In the Indian Buddhist tantras preserved in the Kengyur, there are 93 mentions of vajrayāna; 2 mentions of guhyamantrayāna; and 21 mentions of mantrayāna.

In the Indian commentarial literature preserved in the Tengyur, there are 461 mentions of vajrayāna; 75 for guhyamantrayāna; and 191 for mantrayāna, but many times, mantrayāna and guhyamantrayāna are quite close to each other in proximity, meaning that the former is often a contraction of the latter.

I would say, that since the Vajramāla commentary and other texts equate Vajrayāna and Mantrayāna, Vajrayāna is clearly the more widespread and widely used term in Indian sources, and therefore, mere force of usage in Indian literature favors the use of the term Vajrayāna as an overall name for this Buddhist textual movement.

In Tibetan sources one often see "Secret Mantra Vajrayāna" (gsang sngags rdo rje'i theg pa).

To add to this, the earlier tantras transmitted to Japan are quite few in number, compared with the very large amount of tantras transmitted to Tibet at exactly the same time (800 CE). The term "vajrayāna" was already widely used in India by this time even for so-called "lower tantras" like the Subāhuparipṛcchā Tantra, or "yoga tantras" like the Vajraśikhara tantra, in which is found the term "vajrayāna," though not in the incomplete version translated by Amoghasiddhi.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 27th, 2021 at 9:44 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I think what she is saying is the picture of Soto zen you paint is abstracted from books by western scholars, rather than a deep knowledge of the tradition based on fluency in Japanese, etc.

Astus said:
It seems to me more like criticism of Soto both in Japan and in Western countries. Of course, if it turns out to be otherwise, and all she meant so far was a problem with the academic representation of Soto while at the same time what actually happens in temples and centres are fine with her, then I have misread things.

Malcolm wrote:
If I understand what she has been saying here for more than a decade, she is criticizing what she sees as historical revisionism in Japan, which in her view has had a deleterious effect on how the Soto tradition is understood in the West by both academics and practitioners, resulting an anti-intellectual, enervated interpretation of Shikantaza that is more of a faith-based practice than authentic zen, and does not represent the actual practice of the Soto school over the centuries. She can correct my assessment of her view if she likes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 27th, 2021 at 9:09 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Matylda said:
Where is it said that koan dokusan satori etc. belongs only to rinzai??? it is not true.

Astus said:
I meant commonly found in and associated with Rinzai, not that it was their property or that others were excluded. If you say it's not the consequence of reformations that Sotoshu is what it is today, then what do you say is the reason behind it? Also, do you find current Rinzai more according to your standards of Zen, and would that be because they practise with koans?

Malcolm wrote:
I think what she is saying is the picture of Soto zen you paint is abstracted from books by western scholars, rather than a deep knowledge of the tradition based on fluency in Japanese, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 27th, 2021 at 7:54 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Matylda said:
I see.. well official soto is the very problem.. those people deny everything when they hear satori etc. and start talking, that everything is satori etc. and that practice with aim of satori is almost a sin.. and of course they have miriad excuses and nice theories.

Astus said:
Why expect Soto to follow ideas that are prevalent in Rinzai (koan practice, dokusan, emphasis on kensho, etc.)? Even if once the two branches were quite similar, after the 18th century reforms in both, they have intentionally distanced themselves from each other, unlike in China where lineage association has practically no bearing on one's views and methods.

Malcolm wrote:
You recall that our friend Matylda is from a Soto family, right?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 27th, 2021 at 7:52 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
So,  shikantaza is kind of like nembutsu or nam myoho renge kyo.

Astus said:
There are similarities.

'Dogen taught his religion through the language and lore of Chinese Ch'an; yet in many ways the structure of his religion reflects familiar patterns in the soteriological strategies of Japanese writers like Shinran and Nichiren. This is hardly surprising, since many of the same issues that determined the rules of Ch'an discourse in China - the theory of the supreme, Buddha vehicle and the perfect, sudden practice appropriate to it - had long been at work in the dominant Tendai system in Japan, the system that initially educated Dogen, Shinran, Nichiren, and other leaders of the reformation. Despite their obvious differences, in very broad terms, the ideologies of all three of these famous religious thinkers can be seen as an attempt to define the true practice of the Tendai Buddha vehicle - a sudden practice to be based solely on the absolute truth of Buddhahood itself, not on the upaya of the relative teachings and gradual practices.'
(Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation, p 165)

Malcolm wrote:
So, Tendai in Zen robes. Ok, got it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 27th, 2021 at 6:33 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
it's about charging up your spirit board to cast spells at your enemies, get girls, and become immortal.

Malcolm wrote:
The problem, as ever, is finding the right charger.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 27th, 2021 at 6:06 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Looks like stages to me, in direct contradiction to your claim.

Astus said:
Yes, seems so, but not. The first stage mentioned is of faith, the second is acting upon that faith, and it's the second what comprises shikantaza.

Malcolm wrote:
So,  shikantaza is kind of like nembutsu or nam myoho renge kyo.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 27th, 2021 at 1:12 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This all very much depends on what one means by “enlightenment.”

Astus said:
'Students of the Way should desire to be obstructed by the Way. To be obstructed by the Way means to forget any trace of enlightenment. Practitioners of the Way must first of all have faith in the Way. Those who have faith in the buddha-way must believe that one (the self) is within the Way from the beginning; that you are free from delusive desires, upside-down ways of seeing things, excesses or deficiencies, and mistakes. Arousing this kind of faith, clarifying the Way and practicing the Way comprise the foundation of learning the Way. We do this by sitting and cutting off the root of the discriminating mind; by turning away from the path of intellectual understanding. This is a skillful way to lead beginners. Next, drop off body and mind, and throw away both delusion and enlightenment. This is the second stage. Truly it is most difficult to find a person who believes that his self is within the buddha-way. Only if you believe that you are really inside the Way, will you naturally clarify the scenery of the Great Way and understand the origin of delusion and enlightenment. Try to sit cutting off the root of discriminating mind. Eight or nine out of ten will be able to immediately see the Way.'
(Gakudo Yojinshu by Dogen, in https://www.sotozen.com/eng/library/leaflet/heartofzen/pdf/Heart_of_Zen.pdf, p 32-33)

Malcolm wrote:
Looks like stages to me, in direct contradiction to your claim.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 26th, 2021 at 10:00 PM
Title: Re: Books on Early Mahayana Development, History and Sutras
Content:
Aemilius said:
But I have persistently, during the course of thirty years, seen what I have said above, and a little more: Shakyamuni  got certain Mahayana teachings from a materially existing order of bodhisattvas.

Malcolm wrote:
Source for this claim? This is after all the academic forum, and you’ve offered nothing to support this claim.

Aemilius said:
And also, when Shakyamuni had attained Buddhahood he had direct access (telepathically) to the teachings of thousands of Buddhas, and this is another source to the Mahayana sutras, which he then "edited" (in his mind) to suit the  present situation on planet Earth and in India.

Malcolm wrote:
Speculative.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 26th, 2021 at 9:24 AM
Title: Re: Questions about "Early" as in early early.
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I look forward to being pleasantly surprised if I purchase it.

Malcolm wrote:
You will be. You may not agree with him, not saying I do, but one of interesting points of departure he makes is his administration that he wrote the book once he realized he didn’t actually know why he thought he knew what Mahayana was.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 26th, 2021 at 8:30 AM
Title: Re: Questions about "Early" as in early early.
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I'll respond there once I've read the work. I'll say what it sounds like, trash pseudo-academic pop Buddhology like "Greek Buddha." I will be very surprised if any of his claims are anything specific. I have to first finish an Ng text I am reading for another thread and then see if I want to buy the Genealogies text. It isn't the sort of thing I would ever normally spend money on given that description of it.

Malcolm wrote:
His claims are actually quite specific, nothing like the latest Beckwith book. He is a good scholar actually,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 26th, 2021 at 5:34 AM
Title: Re: Questions about "Early" as in early early.
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Really? Is he published by Princeton University Press? I usually only associate that level of speculative incompetency with them, publishing "Greek Buddha" and Elaine Pagels. I've read other scholarship that several older redactions of the PP sūtras are Āndhraka in origin. I'll find the paper in a bit.

Malcolm wrote:
He goes over all of the older scholarship. You may not agree, but he is hardly incompetent.Please respond here:

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=35714


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 26th, 2021 at 5:33 AM
Title: Re: Questions about "Early" as in early early.
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Really? Is he published by Princeton University Press? I usually only associate that level of speculative incompetency with them, publishing "Greek Buddha" and Elaine Pagels. I've read other scholarship that several older redactions of the PP sūtras are Āndhraka in origin. I'll find the paper in a bit.

Malcolm wrote:
Routledge.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 26th, 2021 at 5:01 AM
Title: Genealogies of Mahāyāna Buddhism: Emptiness, Power and the Question of Origin
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Walser's new book opines that the Ur-PP sūtra was written by a Sarvastivādin monk who was from a Maitrayaṇī Brahmin family in Mathura in the last half of the first century, CE, and that it intended to present a Buddhist compatible version of brahman, and further, that is was a fundamentally political move to secure a position at court. He further argues that Mahāyāna arose in Brahmin communities where "Buddhist" and "Brahmin" were ambiguous distinctions at best.

Discuss!


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 26th, 2021 at 4:56 AM
Title: Re: Questions about "Early" as in early early.
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
What follows is entirely my own theory: If we dismiss the text-critical evolutionary model but retain what we have learned from the critical study of the texts, then we get an image of Mahāsāṃghika communities significantly more influenced by Mahayana

Malcolm wrote:
Walser's new book opines that the Ur-PP sūtra was written by a Sarvastivādin monk who was from a Maitrayaṇī Brahmin family in Mathura in the last half of the first century, CE, and that it intended to present a Buddhist compatible version of brahman, and further, that is was a fundamentally political move to secure a position at court. He further argues that Mahāyāna arose in Brahmin communities where "Buddhist" and "Brahmin" were ambiguous distinctions at best.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 26th, 2021 at 2:20 AM
Title: Re: Wait, so Karma and Rebirth don't exist?
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
I very much think that whether karma and rebirth are facts or not depends largely on how one defines karma and rebirth. And, there can be many definitions.

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha defined them pretty clearly in many places. So there it is not the case that there are many definitions, unless by "many" you mean the Buddha defined them consistently many times.

PadmaVonSamba said:
Read the follow-up paragraph.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, even so, there are many definitions which try to include this idea of absence of self, which are nevertheless quite at a variance with what the Buddha taught, so my point remains.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 26th, 2021 at 1:18 AM
Title: Re: Questions about "Early" as in early early.
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Another point. Ven Bhavaviveka cites a version of the Sīsapāvanasutta (familiar to us via the Pali Canon most likely) where the Buddha addressed it to Ven Ananda instead of the bhiksusamgha like it is in both the Sarvastivadin and Theravadin versions.

Malcolm wrote:
It can also be a paraphrase, a misquote, and so on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 26th, 2021 at 12:13 AM
Title: Re: Questions about "Early" as in early early.
Content:


neander said:
Buddhist lineages not only did not respect but killed and slaughtered different versions of Shangha.

You can just study a short period like Kamakura and Sengoku  in Japan to realize this. Armed attacks were very frequent between various lineages. In the main monasteries in mount Hiei armed attacks occurred within the very same temple, each side accusing the other of slandering the Dharma.

The implementation of what a Shanga should have been was not clear since the first council when already 19 different schools had different ideas...

Malcolm wrote:
You are conflating politics of Medieval Japan with Ancient India now? The Buddha's split into eighteen schools was predicted in King Krikin's dream. This split occurred because in a past life, the Buddha himself had been a sectarian.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 25th, 2021 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: Wait, so Karma and Rebirth don't exist?
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
I very much think that whether karma and rebirth are facts or not depends largely on how one defines karma and rebirth. And, there can be many definitions.

Malcolm wrote:
The Buddha defined them pretty clearly in many places. So there it is not the case that there are many definitions, unless by "many" you mean the Buddha defined them consistently many times.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 25th, 2021 at 7:36 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This all very much depends on what one means by “enlightenment.”
The consequence of this is that one is only realized during shikantaza. How does this escape the equipoise/post-equipoise division? And if there is a division between equipoise/post-equipoise, this means that there are stages.

Astus said:
The main point is that if shikantaza is practice-realisation, then there is no point of working towards a realisation apart from it, there is no satori later. A comparison of the two approaches from Shohaku Okumura:

'Uchiyama Roshi emphasizes that the zazen practice transmitted from Dogen Zenji to Sawaki Roshi differs from D. T. Suzuki’s Zen. For example, Dogen Zenji described the oneness of a practitioner and other people and objects, using the example of a cook and his work with colleagues, ingredients, firewood, and water, as well as those who eat the food. In “Tenzokyokun,” or “Instructions for the Cook,” in Dogen’s Pure Standards for the Zen Community, he wrote, “All day and all night, things come to mind and the mind attends to them; at one with them all, diligently carry on the Way.” Here there’s no mysterious satori, or becoming conscious of the Unconscious. There’s only sincere, wholehearted practice in ordinary activities.'
(Zazen Is the Stability of One’s Whole Life, in Homeless Kodo)

And from Kodo Sawaki:

'Nine hundred years ago there was a Zen system in which there were gradations of satori—three hundred and some tens of cases. Finally completing them all you would perfect a great satori. That system was contrasted with what was referred to as mokusho Zen [silent illumination]. It was also labeled eko and hensho. The other teaching [which uses koans] was called kanna Zen.
Dogen Zenji’s is a religion of practice. Dogen goes so far as to say there is no benefit in recitation with the mouth. In the Bendowa, Dogen wrote: “Continuously uttering sounds is like a frog crying in the night in a spring rice paddy and is ultimately worthless.” 
In the Butsuyuikyogyo, too, [the Buddha] warns against useless talk... Satori is not something that is uncovered by the mind. Practice is enlightenment.
Again in the Bendowa, “A beginner’s wholehearted practice of the Way is the totality of the original enlightenment.” And in Zanmai O Zanmai [The King of Samadhi], “The posture for shikantaza is the most important meaning in Buddhist teaching.”'
(From a talk titled “Dogen’s Zen,” delivered in August 1952 in Kumamoto, in Discovering the True Self)


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 25th, 2021 at 10:12 AM
Title: Re: Books on Early Mahayana Development, History and Sutras
Content:
Aemilius said:
I have said before that there are no academic proofs for this claim or view, but there are spiritual proofs, and these are not accepted by the academic world view. I.e. the Five eyes and the Six supernormal powers, these have been accepted as a basis of knowledge in the Dharma for 2500 years. Next  arises the question whose extraordinary perceptions will be accepted ? ...

PeterC said:
Ok let’s pause there.  Is this a personal insight you have developed?  Or has a teacher told you this?  If so, who?
There is also a spiritual necessity for the existence of the Mahayana. You would know this only when you are quite advanced on the spiritual path, so this also doesn't count as an academic proof. Which is unfortunate.
Actually this is not a spiritual but a textual insight.  The disappearance and reappearance of the Buddhadharma over time is discussed extensively in many places.

But are you asserting that you are quite advanced on the spiritual path and can therefore perceive this directly in a way that those of us in the cheap seats cannot?
I hope this discussion has not been in vain.
That depends on whether you plan on providing backup for your assertion or not.

Aemilius said:
Nagarjuna says in Bodhicittavivarana (or in Bodhisambhara) that one should not doubt the authenticity of Mahayana.

Malcolm wrote:
Ratnavali, actually.

Aemilius said:
Vasubandhu defends the authenticity of Mahayana in his commentary to Maitreya's Mahayanasutralankara, actually the original verses of Maitreya also defend the authenticity of Mahayana sutras.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. But thus does not prove your points. All this proves is that someone said something.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 25th, 2021 at 9:49 AM
Title: Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa
Content:



Cinnabar said:
That makes sense.

I think some people like to translate sahaja as “coemergent”. Which makes some sense from the parts of the Tibetan lhan cig tu skye ba. But I can’t translate, just poke at words.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, they do, but they miss the meaning. Lhan cig skyes is just a translation of sahaja, and sahaja, in this context, does not mean connate, it means simply "natural" in contrast with the three faced, six arm form, or the eight faced, sixteen arm form, etc.

Cinnabar said:
In some sense, isn’t “natural” symbolic of “connote”?

Malcolm wrote:
In this case it just means a deity that is one face two arms, like a natural human, it doesn’t mean anything more than that.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 25th, 2021 at 5:27 AM
Title: Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa
Content:



Cinnabar said:
It was for the coemergent form of Hevajra. The practice emphasizes Hevajra and Nairatmya in union, alone. Each with two arms.

There are mother and father mantras.

Malcolm wrote:
"Sahaja" here simply means "natural," i.e. one face, two arms, and two legs.

Cinnabar said:
That makes sense.

I think some people like to translate sahaja as “coemergent”. Which makes some sense from the parts of the Tibetan lhan cig tu skye ba. But I can’t translate, just poke at words.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, they do, but they miss the meaning. Lhan cig skyes is just a translation of sahaja, and sahaja, in this context, does not mean connate, it means simply "natural" in contrast with the three faced, six arm form, or the eight faced, sixteen arm form, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 25th, 2021 at 5:09 AM
Title: Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa
Content:
Sennin said:
This empowerment was for the 9 deity mandala?

Cinnabar said:
It was for the coemergent form of Hevajra. The practice emphasizes Hevajra and Nairatmya in union, alone. Each with two arms.

There are mother and father mantras.

Malcolm wrote:
"Sahaja" here simply means "natural," i.e. one face, two arms, and two legs.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 25th, 2021 at 2:50 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:



Matylda said:
fantasizing about sex or murdering your enemies, falling asleep - all those are not alaya state, they are just common thoughts. so it has nothing to do with arriving at alaya in zazen.. if anyone will adopt such opinion about alaya will be in serious trouble, and will mistake all kinds of experience in zazen... is is not my opinion, but one may find description of the alaya state of zazen in writtings of some masters...

Malcolm wrote:
Why would one want to arrive at the ālaya state?

Matylda said:
nobody sober of course

but zen masters warned disciples that in the course of great efforts it happens that one attains the great quietude and equipoise... the state is overwhelming and many consider it as great achievment... but it all way wrong and even dangerous.

it is not from my own experience since I have very limited, but it is what one can hear or read from experienced masters, since our friend wrote that thinking about killing, sexing etc. is of alaya in zazen I just reacted, since I have never heard such things... alaya is not desired state or is not considered desireable. But based on the history of zen we may see that it was problem since those who were trapped considered themselves liberated or enlightened etc. it was just big mistake.

Malcolm wrote:
Ok, in Dzogchen, this is a very great error.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 25th, 2021 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
So the big question for me is... how do we maintain the unconditional love and compassion of a Buddha while engaging in petty squabbles and arguments over politics?

Malcolm wrote:
By understanding that everything is like a dream or an illusion.

I don't hate cockroaches, but if they invade my home, and will not leave peacefully, then I will have to call the exterminator, because they bring disease, etc.

I really dislike the ideology that the GOP embraces, and I think that in general, people who follow such ideas are fools who do not understand how harmful their ideology is to the planet and everyone on it. We are at a crisis point in the history of our species, and if we do not get our shit together democratically now, it is inevitable that draconian measures will be needed later to save our species, if it is worth saving at all.

Still, dreams and illusions.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 25th, 2021 at 12:52 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Matt J said:
Similarly, if you're drifting off into the alaya, fantasizing about sex or murdering your enemies, falling asleep, you're not really practicing Shikantaza.

Matylda said:
fantasizing about sex or murdering your enemies, falling asleep - all those are not alaya state, they are just common thoughts. so it has nothing to do with arriving at alaya in zazen.. if anyone will adopt such opinion about alaya will be in serious trouble, and will mistake all kinds of experience in zazen... is is not my opinion, but one may find description of the alaya state of zazen in writtings of some masters...

Malcolm wrote:
Why would one want to arrive at the ālaya state?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 25th, 2021 at 12:36 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Matt J said:
Essentially, what I've seen with this interpretation is that the "stages" are just shifted to "pre-Shikanataza" stage.

Malcolm wrote:
So Shikantaza becomes itself becomes a stage, which one is either on or not. Then there is the problem of what "practice" means. If "practice-realization" means the practice is being in a state of realization, then I think, most people are shit out of luck.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 11:14 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Matylda said:
The whole topic which I picked up concerns exclusivly Japanese zen.

Astus said:
The main point still stands: Practising with koans is in order to gain realisation, shikantaza is practice-realisation, so there is a difference. If there were stages to be reached in shikantaza, then realisation were apart from practice.

Malcolm wrote:
The consequence of this is that one is only realized during shikantaza. How does this escape the equipoise/post-equipoise division? And if there is a division between equipoise/post-equipoise, this means that there are stages.

In any case, stages are not measures of realization, but only qualities.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 10:10 PM
Title: Re: Books on Early Mahayana Development, History and Sutras
Content:
Aemilius said:
...

PeterC said:
All largely irrelevant to the question of whether there was a bodhisattvayana preceding Gautama.  That’s four times I’ve asked and you haven’t responded, so I’ll assume you don’t have any evidence for this.

We do know, and it’s very well documented, that there were sramana movements before, during and after his life.  But to claim that a bodhisattvayana existed, you need more than just beliefs in reincarnation and spiritual practices.

Aemilius said:
I have said before that there are no academic proofs for this claim or view, but there are spiritual proofs, and these are not accepted by the academic world view. I.e. the Five eyes and the Six supernormal powers, these have been accepted as a basis of knowledge in the Dharma for 2500 years. Next  arises the question whose extraordinary perceptions will be accepted ? I believe that You you have been a member in a modern Buddhist movement, so that you would know that there still is knowledge passing around that comes from supranormal perceptions. Different traditions accept  different authorities, who are then relied on and quoted in these matters.

The supranormal perceptions can be, and quite often are, in opposition to the prevailing academic views. In this case all we can do, in the academic field, is to say that it is possible that the Mahayana has existed as an oral tradition, long before the writing down of the Mahayana sutras.

There is also a spiritual necessity for the existence of the Mahayana. You would know this only when you are quite advanced on the spiritual path, so this also doesn't count as an academic proof. Which is unfortunate.

I hope this discussion has not been in vain.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a difference between personally accepting tenets of faith on the one hand and asserting them as empirical facts on the other. If the former are asserted as the latter, that is the pathway of fanaticism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 7:42 PM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:


Pero said:
After some other things he said I reflected on my own life and noticed I slowly got too sucked into worldly concerns over the last 9 years or so, politics being one of them.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s ok to be upset about fascists. If one isn’t, one is likely a fascist oneself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 11:56 AM
Title: Re: Questions about "Early" as in early early.
Content:
Padmist said:
How do Mahayana Buddhists handle claims that Pali Canon is the authentic teachings of the Buddha and anything beyond it is isn't Buddha's teachings?

Malcolm wrote:
Mahāyāna, as a self-conscious movement, begins with Nāgārjuna. Why do I say this? Nāgārjuna was the first identifiable author that we know of in the history of Buddhism to defend the sūtra tradition we call Mahāyāna. This is why he is the most important Mahāyāna figure, apart from the Buddha in Mahāyāna sūtras. Of course there were Mahāyāna sūtras prior to Nāgārjuna, but he was the first person to articulate a polemical defense of Mahāyāna and the first historical person (by western criteria) to give Mahāyāna a serious intellectual platform.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 11:18 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
I find it admirable the way you defend your political views. It doesn't seem like Dharma to me, but neither does it to you as you mentioned earlier.

SilenceMonkey said:
They are not really political views. They are observations about what is decent and what is not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 9:13 AM
Title: Re: How long was your honey moon phase with Buddhism?
Content:
karmanyingpo said:
Hello all. I am curious to know how long your "honey moon" phase with Buddhism was. I've heard stories of practitioners getting really fervent and too excited and then petering out after a short period of time. I am sure it differs from person to person. How long did that period of initial "madly in love" and maybe being overly excited rather than having a firm grounding in the real reasons for practice (like impermanence, precious human life, bodhichitta etc) last for you?

I feel like this is too casual of a topic to put in Personal Experiences so hopefully it is ok to put it here too for very relaxed discussion

KN

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not over, going strong since 1986.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 8:42 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
.

Like I said, I suspect your bone to pick is more with media, social media, and what they do to the conversation than simply with having ideas about what is right or wrong in terms of political policies, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Nah, he explicitly mentioned dzogchen practitioners. He has a problem with my outspokenness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
yeah, forget the guy I mentioned. What I'm referring to is learning how to have discussion without being so agitated (even at a subtle level) that you'll want to take sides. Not falling into the trap of "us and them."

Malcolm wrote:
Sometimes there is an "us" and a "them" but...

Portland Antifa going around looking for fascists to fight with, and failing to find any, destroying the offices of the Democratic Party, burning flags in protest of Joe Biden in Denver, and so on is some pretty dumb, clueless shit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 4:50 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
I find many people who defend political engagement as dharma practice tend not to look at their ideological blinders.

Malcolm wrote:
I am an American. I like democracy. I don't like people who try to overthrow elections and generally destroy our admittedly already imperfect system of governance, i.e., the GOP.

I didn't say that politics was Dharma practice, I said my point of view of politics is informed by Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 4:10 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
I think the non-engagement with news, politics and arguments is actually a good quality for dharma. Moving away from these sources of wordliness is moving nearer to a mind of retreat. The sort of people who meditate all day often won't spend much time with these things.

Malcolm wrote:
I see, like HH Dalai Lama?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 3:19 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You attended both meetings?

laowhining said:
I did not attend the first, as far as I know that was only open to SMS instructors, but I attended the second that was open to Gakyil and others representing some kind of organization within the DC orbit.

Malcolm wrote:
I attended neither, but I know people who attended both. What a shit show.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 3:18 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:


Matt J said:
I tend to agree that Taoism tends to be apolitical, or even anti-political. I\

Malcolm wrote:
Historically, this is completely false. A quick read of Chinese history should correct this notion immediately.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 3:17 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:


SilenceMonkey said:
Maybe dzogchenpas would share this view of cultural detachment...

people get too political in the buddhist world, and it can do a lot of harm to our system.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't know about you, but my politics are a direct result of my commitment to Buddhadharma. YMMV.

But I am not about to be passive when there is great harm being done because some people have this idea:
...that it's all a joke and cultivators don't take these things so seriously
This is called "spiritual bypassing" and its a huge steaming pile of shit.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 2:37 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
Daoism has a strong hermit tradition of living in obscurity... staying in the shadows and leaving no footsteps.

Malcolm wrote:
Great, so go talk about Daoism on a Daoist site. This is a Buddhist site. So you are:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 2:35 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
I've been following this Daoist teacher on facebook named Damo Mitchell. He has a stance on politics that I respect a lot, which is that it's all a joke and cultivators don't take these things so seriously.
So, I'm wondering how some of you would relate with these things.

Malcolm wrote:
Piss poor attitude for a so-called Taoist. Taoism is a deeply political ideology.

SilenceMonkey said:
Taoism's not an ideology, malcolm. It's a philosophical and mystical way of being in the world. It is by nature flexible and adapts to any circumstance, vocation or persuasion. It's been used for political purposes, but the politics is in the people and not the Dao (or Daoism) itself. Whatever ideology you hold, it can mold to it to express inner principles of Dao.

Long story short... Daoism isn't political, you are.

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, sure.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 2:34 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:
Brahma said:
Here are some "political passages" from the https://personaltao.com/recommended-books/the-gnl-tao-de-ching/#31:
61. Submission

A nation is like a hierarchy, a marketplace, and a maiden.
A maiden wins her husband by submitting to his advances;
Submission is a means of union.

So when a large country submits to a small country
It will adopt the small country;
When a small country submits to a large country
It will be adopted by the large country;
The one submits and adopts;
The other submits and is adopted.

It is in the interest of a large country to unite and gain service,
And in the interest of a small country to unite and gain patronage;
If both would serve their interests,
Both must submit.
68. Compassion

Compassion is the finest weapon and best defence.
If you would establish harmony,
Compassion must surround you like a fortress.

Therefore,
A good soldier does not inspire fear;
A good fighter does not display aggression;
A good conqueror does not engage in battle;
A good leader does not exercise authority.

This is the value of unimportance;
This is how to win the cooperation of others;
This to how to build the same harmony that is in nature.
It really is a Philosophy for all levels of society, but written by someone observing from the very top of the so called "ladder."

Malcolm wrote:
Taoism is more than the Dao De Jing, it is also Sun Tzu's Art of War, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 2:13 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
I've been following this Daoist teacher on facebook named Damo Mitchell. He has a stance on politics that I respect a lot, which is that it's all a joke and cultivators don't take these things so seriously.
So, I'm wondering how some of you would relate with these things.

Malcolm wrote:
Piss poor attitude for a so-called Taoist. Taoism is a deeply political ideology.

Könchok Thrinley said:
That is an interesting claim. Would you care to elaborate? I don't have much experience with Taoism, but it always seemed quite non-political.

Malcolm wrote:
Taoism is the Machiavellianism of the Sinosphere.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
Aloke said:
About Yeshe you said that "he wants to have nothing to do with the DC", and you  asked me if I have attended the meeting during which the IDG answered people's questions. I have not attended the meeting, I thought it would be a waste of time, but of course, I read the documents they provided, and one of the answers to one of the questions about Transmissions / Lungs, more specifically: "Will Yeshi give direct transmission?" Was: "Yeshi announced that he would give direct transmission in Merigar West for people seriously interested in the teaching of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu in Easter 2020. Then the event was canceled due to the Covid pandemic. Yeshi said in the two meetings in August that he intends to make it possible to access the texts and teaching of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, by meeting people seriously interested in the Teaching of the Master, when circumstances make it possible."

I am still trying to find the coherence between saying that Yeshe don't want to have nothing to do with the Dzogchen Community, and the Dzogchen Community people keep saying things like this not only in informal conversations, but in their Annual General Meeting. Finally, about Yeshe's reasons behind his conflict with the Dzogchen Community I do think that we should not ignore it. It would be foolish, as sooner or later some stuff will show up.

laowhining said:
The lack of coherence is due to differences in understanding of what was said during the meeting. I attended the meeting and my understanding of what Khyentse Yeshi said does not correspond entirely to the collection of points sent out some days after the meeting that seems to have proliferated online. I'm not saying one is wrong or right, just that what is circulating online is mostly speculation.

I don't think this speculation is particularly fruitful, at least not what I see online; it seems more like gossip than anything else. Maybe it's helpful if we reflect on how we, as a Community, have interacted with Rinpoche and Yeshi and the rest of the family in a way that could create this kind of tension, but I think it's necessary to know more about what happened than most of us do if we want to make these conversations anything more than speculation and useless hand-wringing about "the future of the teachings."

Malcolm wrote:
You attended both meetings?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 1:47 AM
Title: Re: The Dao of Politics and ideology
Content:
SilenceMonkey said:
I've been following this Daoist teacher on facebook named Damo Mitchell. He has a stance on politics that I respect a lot, which is that it's all a joke and cultivators don't take these things so seriously.
So, I'm wondering how some of you would relate with these things.

Malcolm wrote:
Piss poor attitude for a so-called Taoist. Taoism is a deeply political ideology.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 1:45 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Queequeg said:
We get what you're saying. There's something else going on.

Malcolm wrote:
So you keep saying.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 1:44 AM
Title: Mansplaining Women’s Enlightenment
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
A Buddhist Literary Scandal; the Curious Case of ‘The First Free Women':
This is how—step-by-step—our sacred Buddhist scriptures can be lost. The scandal is that we allowed it to happen. But if we don’t do something about it now, to firmly say that this crosses a line and stand up for the integrity of our scriptural tradition, then it won’t just be a scandal; it will be a tragedy.
https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/?fbclid=IwAR2omUnevXClTz2M8dkeo-2HB-bPN2r0HKEmSZo8nPzSGVX3Dwol-tfQqYo


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 24th, 2021 at 1:21 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
“Conventional” simply means “functional,” it does not mean arbitrary or subjective.

Queequeg said:
Yes. Exactly. That's exactly what Zhiyi said the Middle Way/Buddhanature is.

Functions are responsive. Conditions being various, various functions are necessary.

Give it a rest, bro.

Malcolm wrote:
The middle way is inexpressible. It's beyond convention. That's the point.

If you are claiming that the term "the middle way" is merely a convention, thats fine. The words "middle way" have a function. But those words are not the inexpressible middle way taught by the Buddha in the sutras I mentioned.

If something has a function, it is compounded, and impermanent. There are no permanent, functional phenomena. Buddhanature is not a functional phenomena, if it were, it would be compounded.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 23rd, 2021 at 11:33 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
tkp67 said:
convention is subjective and thus conditional

Malcolm wrote:
No, conventions are not subjective, they are conventions because one or more people have agreed to call a functional thing a given name. For example, a truck is called a lorry in England, but they both refer to a heavy vehicle that carries loads.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 23rd, 2021 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
They exist conventionally.

Queequeg said:
bbbbbbut... only one convention (or rather conventional way to look at reality) is TRUE!!!!

Christ. This conversation has gone stupid.

Malcolm wrote:
“Conventional” simply means “functional,” it does not mean arbitrary or subjective. For example, perceiving water as amṛta, pus, boiling metal, etc., is invalid in the human realm.

One can build many kinds of cars, but if they don’t function as cars, they are not cars, conventionally speaking.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 22nd, 2021 at 9:12 PM
Title: Re: Books on Early Mahayana Development, History and Sutras
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
I thought this was a thread about books on early Mahayana?


Aemilius said:
There are many strands of knowledge in the world...

PeterC said:
Sure, but still: would be interested to hear who asserts this, and on what textual / archeological / other basis.  Or is it your theory?

Also the examples you offer also talk about some sort of eternal soul, which is definitely not the Bodhisattvayana.

Aemilius said:
You must understand that there is no continual tradition reaching us from the time of Pythagoras, subtle things are always subtle, it is true of any tradition that says "reincarnation" or "consciousness" etc.. that the mind can and will reify them to be self-existing eternal entities. It is in the nature of language.

Who says this? One thing is what the various scholars publish in papers, another thing is what they say in lectures, and the third is what they say in private conversations. I think it is clearly evident from the things that exist, and that I referred to. You must be able to think for yourself also. I really can't say that it is my own theory that the Indo-Aryan peoples had a world view, and had spiritual traditions, before they migrated to different parts of the world. This has been said many times, emphasizing different things and diffrent ideas, depending on the person.

Thor Heyerdahl had the idea that Odin was a historical person, who lived somewhere in the area around the Black sea. I have a similar kind of view, namely that Odin is the same parson as the Oddiyan guru or Padmasambhava, and that he lived in Georgia, which is the original Urgyen (Ge-orgyen) i.e. the Oddiyan country. Guru of Orgyen was assimilated into Christianity as Saint George, the Patron Saint of Georgia.
Heyerdahl studied his ideas concerning Odin for many years.

Asko Parpola is a well  known researcher in this area, his emphasis is on the hindu ideas:
"Books
1994: Deciphering the Indus Script, Cambridge University Press,
2015: The Roots of Hinduism: The Early Aryans and the Indus Civilization, Oxford University Press,
Selected articles
1988: The coming of the Aryans to Iran and India and the cultural and ethnic identity of the Dāsas, Studia Orientalia, Vol. 64, pp. 195–302. The Finnish Oriental Society.
2008: Is the Indus script indeed not a writing system? In: Airāvati: Felicitation volume in honour of Iravatham Mahadevan: 111–31. VARALAARU.COM, Chennai.

Reception
Parpola's long journal article The Coming of the Aryans is widely cited by historians and scholars of Indo-European Studies. Colin Renfrew, who has reviewed the article, called it a "richly annotated and well-illustrated essay," which brings together a number of different lines of arguments, including literary and archaeological. It contains rich and interesting insights into a variety of topics, including the "amalgamation of the Aryan and Dasa religions," and the Nuristani language.
Awards
Asko Parpola received the Kalaignar M. Karunanidhi Classical Tamil Award for 2009 on June 23, 2010 at the World Classical Tamil Conference at Coimbatore. In 2015, he was awarded India's Presidential Award of Certificate of Honour in Sanskrit. He is an honorary member of the American Oriental Society."

In the early (, middle or late) 1900's the issue was a dangerously political one, and thus the early translators like Rhys-Davids or Edward Conze didn't say anything about the possible connection of Dharma to the Indo-Aryan culture. Earlier Max Muller had said something about, for example in his book: F. Max Müller (1888) Biographies of Words and the Home of the Aryas. Kessinger Publishing reprint, 2004.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 22nd, 2021 at 9:10 PM
Title: Re: Trumps last day, post your fav vids
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Every Jew I personally know, including my wife; agrees. Just replace ‘Jew’ with globalist, lizard alien or whatever. These conspiracy theories are always made so that they can accommodate what group is needed though. The big enemy is always kind of amorphous until it’s time to target someone specific. So fascist-communist-lizard-demon-alien-Zionist-Muslim antifa satanist pedophile Illuminati...or whatever.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, except for the fascist part, I agree.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 22nd, 2021 at 5:38 AM
Title: Re: Trumps last day, post your fav vids
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Uh, have you guys seen the anti-Trumper meltdown vids?

Malcolm wrote:
Dumb.

Four years ago, the meltdowns were not from members of a toxic cult that spread noxious lies about how top democrats were literally sacrificing children and eating them, etc., they were meltdowns were over a guy who they knew was going to be the WORST PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES EVER. And they were 100% correct.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 22nd, 2021 at 3:31 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:


Aloke said:
I didn't affirm that Malcolm has proclaimed something, or that he has or not taught Longsal. I was just making a question. I know that Malcolm says that his "job is the 17 tantras." But he has also said things like:

"ChNN was one of the most accessible teachers in modern memory. He answered every email, etc., as well as sitting for hours after almost every session to greet students personally until he became too ill. He also taught in a way that was so comprehensive as to anticipate nearly any question a student might have. He is the most important link to authentic Dzogchen teachings on this globe. I am proud to be his student, his lineage will continue as long as I am alive, and beyond, among my students, whether they are recognized by Dzogchen Community or not.Last edited by Malcolm on Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total."

Malcolm wrote:
I have many lineages of Dzogchen teachings from many different masters. When I teach, those lineages pass through me to my students.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 22nd, 2021 at 3:28 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
With respect to the first two masters you mention, they did not build anything over Madhyamaka, they are simply Vajrayana practitioners; with the respect to the third, his Madhyamaka is distorted; with respect to fourth, it seems he used Madhyamaka as a departure and indeed constructed a novel system, and the fifth follows the fourth.

haha said:
Different is method. That is accepted. If Madhyamaka needs no improvement, then why one should need different methods.

Malcolm wrote:
Madhyamaka concerns the view, not the path.

haha said:
In other word, it means that it is not enough to realize. If someone says it takes three asamkhyakalpas, it is polite way to saying one is not going to attain. lol Three asamkhyakalpas is differentiating rhetoric (between arhat and buddhahood).

Malcolm wrote:
This is your interpretation. "Asamkhya" is an actual Indian number.

haha said:
Somewhere, someone wrote articles mentioning Dolpopa theory based on Prajnaparamita. So, I would not say distortion; otherwise, one is saying such and such the prajnaparamita texts are distortion.

Malcolm wrote:
Dolbupa's Madhyamaka is distorted. If you are interested, you can read Gorampa and Tsongkhapa to find out why.

haha said:
Nagarjuna is a big tree. Svatantrika Madhyamaka, Prasangika Madhyamaka, Yogacara Madyamaka,

Malcolm wrote:
There is at base only a disagreement over how to present emptiness, no disagreement about the nature of the two truths here.

haha said:
Great Madhyamaka, Secret Mantra-Madhyamaka, they all are the branches.

Malcolm wrote:
Great Madhyamaka is a term all Tibetans use for their own school. There is no such thing as "Secret Mantra Madhyamaka."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 11:41 PM
Title: Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
2. Profound inner meaning: (completion stage) for Naro Chödrak.

Malcolm wrote:
She is working on one of the Kagyu volumes of Damngak dzod right now, specifically naro chodruk material.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
It’s beginning to sound like the notes I was given were confused.

But let me know when you’re sure.

Malcolm wrote:
It sounds like you were given a list of desiderata. The Hevajra Tantra cannot be understood easily without a commentary. I have translated the first section myself. Even to read it in English, it needs commentary. In the Sakya tradition, which specializes in Hevajra, there are eight Indian commentaries, which are distilled down in one. In the Kagyu tradition, there are also many commentaries, but I am not sure which Indian commentaries they regard as authoritative. JKLT wrote a commentary on Hevajra that is supposed to be quite good, but I have not read it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 10:25 PM
Title: Re: Brief Sang Offering - transmission needed or no
Content:
Soma999 said:
By the inner experiences, and the results in onés life.

How do you know you have really been initiated during an empowerment ?

Malcolm wrote:
If you understood the instructions, followed the recitations after the master, and genuinely made effort to follow the visualizations, then you received it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 10:22 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Bristollad said:
Tsongkhapa himself says the Perfection Vehicle and the Mantra Vehicle do not differ in regards to realising emptiness, nor in bodhicitta, only in regards to method:

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, as do almost all Tibetan scholars following Sakya Pandita.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 10:06 PM
Title: Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
2. Profound inner meaning: (completion stage) for Naro Chödrak.

Malcolm wrote:
She is working on one of the Kagyu volumes of Damngak dzod right now, specifically naro chodruk material.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 10:03 PM
Title: Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa
Content:
lelopa said:
"Hevajra belongs to the eight great Herukas"

I only know the 8 Kagye Nyingma Herukas, where Demchok is sometimes described as the same as  Yangdag.....
What are the 8 to which Hevajra belongs?

Malcolm wrote:
Hevajra = Shri Heruka (yang dag), according to HHST.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 9:56 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
haha said:
The point is that every school would make their own assertion. Even in the interpretation of Tibetan Buddhism, Tsongkhapa has regarded sutra is not enough to realize emptiness (i.e. four types of emptiness); the tantric practice is needed.

Malcolm wrote:
False. Tsongkhapa merely acceded to the notion that common Mahayana was a slow path,

haha said:
It is not my assertion (sorry for me being poor in my expression). Lower tantras (i.e. assertion is that they are superior then sutra; same way comparing Zhiyi's view on Madhyamaka from five periods) lead up to the path of seeing, not beyond. From that point to Buddhahood, one is not going to attain Buddhahood faster unless anuttaryoga is used. So, it is about time (i.e. quicker or longer).

For reference for above statement:  Guy Newland - "Tsongkhapa's Explanation of Emptiness and the Two Truths" - Session 1 of 4 (timing around 1hr:17min) link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPRIHcHi68U

They did not consider the examination of time (Kala pariksa) in their interpretation; they considered sutra vs tantra.

Malcolm wrote:
The difference is method, and thus time on the path, one to sixteen lifetimes vs three samkhyakalpas.


haha said:
In dzogchen, madhyamaka type of emptiness is regarded as a kind of calm abiding or empty experience.
False. Longchenpa admits that the view of dzogchen is analytically identical with prasanga.
Here is my point:

Malcolm wrote:
You said Madhyamaka, according to dzogchen, is a kind of empty experience or calm abiding. But thus is false. Again,the difference between Dzogchen and Madhyamaka is method. The latter uses analysis, the former does not.



haha said:
This is going off topic.

My point is simple: Madhyamaka needs no improvement. It’s the highest of the four tenet systems, and attempts to improve upon it merely obscure its austere elegance.
I also fully agree on this point. But it is nice in theory only. What they do practice is more important than what they do say. For practically speaking, everyone (Tsongkhapa, Longchenpa, Dolpopa, Zhiyi, Nichiren, etc.) has their own way. Everyone had built something over it.

Malcolm wrote:
With respect to the first two masters you mention, they did not build anything over Madhyamaka, they are simply Vajrayana practitioners; with the respect to the third, his Madhyamaka is distorted; with respect to fourth, it seems he used Madhyamaka as a departure and indeed constructed a novel system, and the fifth follows the fourth.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 12:22 PM
Title: Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
On a related note, Tsadra Foundation is working on an English translation of the entire Hevajra Tantra. However I don’t know when it will be ready.

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t think so. And it is not very long. Who told you this? I’ve recently finished the first volume of Lamdre material and submitted it to Shambhala. But I am not aware of a Hevajra project.

Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
When HHK came to the women's retreat he gave them a list of things to study. One was the Hevajra Tantra, which supposedly Elizabeth Callahan was working on. However I just checked the Tsadra Foundation blurb on Callahan and there's no mention of it being in the works.

So maybe it isn't true.

Malcolm wrote:
I’ll ask her. I see her a couple of times a month via zoom. She’s a very nice person.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 12:14 PM
Title: Re: Wait, so Karma and Rebirth don't exist?
Content:
Pascal2 said:
I think it would be better for both if you could tell me openly if I and other people are allowed to question politely the core of your beliefs or whether you do not want other people to do that.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, since these doctrines are not falsifiable, they are won’t withstand demands for empirical confirmation.  One either accepts them or not.

Pascal2 said:
I am not sure they are not falsifiable or we are not interested in trying to falsifying them.
Please let me explain: if I say that I consider apples more tasty than bananas, this statement is not falsifiable.
If I say that committing a sin will have you end up in a lower realm this statement is, at least in principle, falsifiable.
To any person who makes this statement the obvious question I would ask is: "how do you possibly know that?"

Malcolm wrote:
Which is why these things are not falsifiable. They are accepted  purely on the authority of the Buddha’s say so. Generally Buddhists decide that what Buddhas has taught with regard to dependent origination is true, and so they generally choose to accept the rest.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 12:05 PM
Title: Re: Wait, so Karma and Rebirth don't exist?
Content:
Pascal2 said:
I think it would be better for both if you could tell me openly if I and other people are allowed to question politely the core of your beliefs or whether you do not want other people to do that.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, since these doctrines are not falsifiable, they are won’t withstand demands for empirical confirmation.  One either accepts them or not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 11:18 AM
Title: Best inaugural fireworks ever
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 11:05 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
If you don’t study and internalize these basic definitions, you’ll just engage in tons of proliferation as you have here.

Caoimhghín said:
I'm explaining to you how Theravadins believe in the dhammas and how I don't believe in that. I don't think the Theravadins and the Sarvastivadins are exceptionally different in how they believe in the naive reality of the dharmas. The Sarvastivadins believe in the persistence of the dharmas though extra times.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. That’s not the Abhidharma that is relevant here. Sorry. You need to study Vasubandhu,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 10:57 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
haha said:
The point is that every school would make their own assertion. Even in the interpretation of Tibetan Buddhism, Tsongkhapa has regarded sutra is not enough to realize emptiness (i.e. four types of emptiness); the tantric practice is needed.

Malcolm wrote:
False. Tsongkhapa merely acceded to the notion that common Mahayana was a slow path,
In dzogchen, madhyamaka type of emptiness is regarded as a kind of calm abiding or empty experience.
False. Longchenpa admits that the view of dzogchen is analytically identical with prasanga.


This is going off topic.

My point is simple: Madhyamaka needs no improvement. It’s the highest of the four tenet systems, and attempts to improve upon it merely obscure its austere elegance.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 10:33 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
How is space, absence of impediment, an experience of meditation? How is the cessation of the series of a burnt seed an experience of meditation? Granted, cessation due to analysis is a result of insight, but that refers to the cessation of births, so how are these three uncompounded dharmas not even conventional entities?

Caoimhghín said:
The space between your fingers is conditioned. The space that is seen in a cave is conditioned. The unconditioned spaces are the products of divine vision, as far as I am aware, like the "endless deepest darkness" between world systems described in the suttas. Similarly, the burnt seed is not burnt, because the Buddhas rouse the Arhats. When I talk about "dharmas," I mean "moments." I don't think the "moments" actually exist. They are just one way to divide experience. According to the MMK, they have no moment of arising, no moment of abiding, and no moment of cessation. They do not actually exist as discrete entities at all, ultimately speaking, because they have no "edges."

Malcolm wrote:
Unconditioned space is just absence of obstruction. That’s all. If you don’t study and internalize these basic definitions, you’ll just engage in tons of proliferation as you have here. Further, you won’t understand the crucial metaphor of space that is endemic in all Mahayana texts all the way through Dzogpachenpo, Chan, and so on.


Caoimhghín said:
I was once very seriously interested in Theravada, so I don't feel that I'm especially ignorant of how Theravadin Abhidhammika Buddhism presents itself to potential lay adherents

Malcolm wrote:
Abhidhamma is irrelevant to Mahayana. Abhidharma, however, is pretty important. For example, if one wishes to understand the negation of cause and condition in the first chapter of MMK and have any hope of following the exchange.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 10:25 AM
Title: Re: Wait, so Karma and Rebirth don't exist?
Content:


Pascal2 said:
So far I have heard just philosophical discussions, but no evidence.

Malcolm wrote:
You won’t hear evidence for rebirth and karma because they are not falsifiable. So continuing to demand proofs and explanations for them is fruitless. Buddhism is a religion, not a science.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 10:10 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I don't believe in Abhidharma, but I do agree that I need to study it if I want to criticize it.

Malcolm wrote:
You mean you don’t believe you have five skandhas? Twelves ayatanas, eighteen dhatus, twenty-two indriyas? Etc?

I am not suggesting one has to accept Abhidharma uncritically, but one needs a solid grounding in it.

Not only that, but the things I mentioned are quite acceptable conventionally. Why? Because they are functional, arthakriya. For example, if one does not accept space, there can be no extension and all material entities must occupy the same location, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 10:04 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I can see already how difficult this conversation would be to even have, so we probably shouldn't have it and won't. Maybe if we meet some day we'll have it, who knows. I too can concede that the dharmas in the matrices of the Abhidharmas "exist" in a way, but I don't give then any kind of actual ontological status whatsoever.

Malcolm wrote:
They exist conventionally.

Caoimhghín said:
I don't even give them "conventionally ontologically existing" status.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s an error. There are no such thing as “conventionally ontologically-existing” entities. There are conventional entities, like uncompounded space, however.

Caoimhghín said:
They are just ways that X or Y tradition of Buddhism has chosen to schematize reality based on the experiences of the meditators therein.

Malcolm wrote:
How is space, absence of impediment, an experience of meditation? How is the cessation of the series of a burnt seed an experience of meditation? Granted, cessation due to analysis is a result of insight, but that refers to the cessation of births, so how are these three uncompounded dharmas not even conventional entities?

Caoimhghín said:
So I can agree with you enough to get what you meant then.

Malcolm wrote:
You need to study abhidharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 9:43 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
So in what sense do you bring up the emptiness of unconditioned things here (as opposed to conditioned things, I presume)?

Malcolm wrote:
In the same sense that space and the two cessations are included in the dharmadhatu as objects of the manodhatu.

The term “dharma,” in all its ten meanings, has no direct translation into English, but there do exist, conventionally speaking, uncompounded dharmas such as space, the two cessations, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 9:32 AM
Title: Re: Trumps last day, post your fav vids
Content:
PeterC said:
Not a vid, but the ongoing meltdown of the q-anon community is both entertaining and profoundly disturbing. This is a widespread mental health crisis.  This article is a great illustration of how extreme the delusions have become.

https://gizmodo.com/heres-how-qanon-reacted-as-they-realized-the-storm-isnt-1846095605

Malcolm wrote:
Here is the video:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 9:29 AM
Title: Re: Trumps last day, post your fav vids
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 9:24 AM
Title: Trumps last day, post your fav vids
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 8:57 AM
Title: Re: Garchen Rinpoche - Hevajra Empowerment and 4 Dharmas of Gampopa
Content:
Schrödinger’s Yidam said:
On a related note, Tsadra Foundation is working on an English translation of the entire Hevajra Tantra. However I don’t know when it will be ready.

Malcolm wrote:
I don’t think so. And it is not very long. Who told you this? I’ve recently finished the first volume of Lamdre material and submitted it to Shambhala. But I am not aware of a Hevajra project.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 4:11 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



Queequeg said:
Are uncompounded entities even entities? Or just imputation of entities? If imputations, then they're actually compounded... takes a subject to impute it. In a sense, that is the same as all entities that we otherwise say are compounded - its all imputation.

We say they are uncompounded as a matter of distinction only.

Malcolm wrote:
Space, the two cessations, suchness/emptiness and all their synonyms are the uncompounded entities mentioned in Mahāyāna.

But as Nagārajuna cogently points out in the MMK,

Since arising, abiding, and perishing are not established, the compounded are not established;
since the compounded have never been established, why would the uncompounded be established?

People keep on trying to fix or improve upon Madhyamaka. It's never been necessary.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 21st, 2021 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I'm not disagreeing that emptiness is suchness and suchness is emptiness and these all refer to the same.

I do want citations though, but not because I'm disputing it. I like reading. Ven Zhiyi himself says several times that suchness is emptiness, also that suchness is conventionality and that conventionality is emptiness, but I don't think that Ven Zhiyi has normal "Indian" Madhyamaka either.

Malcolm wrote:
Ārya-dharmasaṃgīti-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra:


Child of a good family, so called "suchness, suchness" is a term designating emptiness. The empty neither arise nor cease.


As for QQ:

Ārya-aṣṭādaśasāhasrikā-prajñāpāramitā-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra:

If one is diligent in the emptiness of ignorance, one is called diligent. If one is diligent in the emptiness of ignorance, formations, consciousness, name, form, six sense bases, contact, sensation, craving, addiction, becoming, birth, aging, and death, one is called "diligent." If one is diligent in the emptiness of all dharmas, one is called "diligent." If one is diligent in the emptiness of compounded and uncompounded phenomena, one is called "diligent."

The Sūtra of Great Liberation (no Sanskrit title, so probably translated from Chinese):

That being the case, child of a good family, the Buddha is the the dharma, the dharma is the sangha. The sangha is uncompounded. The uncompounded is emptiness. The emptiness of the uncompounded, the emptiness of the compounded, the internal emptiness, and external emptiness, the emptiness of the large, and the emptiness of the small are alike as emptiness, and not otherwise.

As for the middle way, the so-called middle way is inexpressible as we see in such sūtras as the Ārya-kāśyapa-parivarta-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra:

Kāśyapa, if it is asked how one undertakes the dharma according to the approach of a bodhisattva, it is as follows, true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way. 

Kāśyapa, If it is asked what is true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way, Kāśyapa, the true discernment into the absence of identity, true discernment into the absence of a sentient being, the absence of a creature, the absence of a life, the absence of a person, the absence of an individual, the absence of a human, the absence of a man. Kāśyapa, this is called "true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way."

Kāśyapa, furthermore, the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way is not discerning permanence nor discerning impermanence in matter. Kāśyapa, likewise, it is not discerning permanence nor discerning impermanence in sensations, perceptions, formations, and consciousness. Kāśyapa, this is called "orrect discernment into the dharmas of the middle way."

 Kāśyapa, further, the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way is is not discerning permanence nor discerning impermanence in the element of earth, and likewise, is not discerning permanence nor discerning impermanence in the element of water, the element of fire, the element of air, the element of space, or the element of consciousness. Kāśyapa, this is called "the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way."

Kāśyapa, further, the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way is not discerning permanence nor discerning impermanence in the eye sense base, and likewise, not discerning permanence nor discerning impermanence in the ear, nose, tongue, tactile, and mental sense bases.  Kāśyapa, this is called "the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way."

Kāśyapa, "permanence" is one extreme, "impermanence" is the second extreme. Whatever is between those two extremes cannot be investigated, demonstrated, cannot be a support, cannot appear, cannot be made known, and cannot abide. Kāśyapa, this is called "the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way." 

Kāśyapa, "self" is one extreme, "nonself" is the second extreme. Whatever is between those two extremes cannot be investigated, demonstrated, cannot be a support, cannot appear, cannot be made known, and cannot abide. Kāśyapa, this is called "the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way." 

Kāśyapa, "correct thought" is one extreme, "incorrect thought" is the second extreme. Absence of thought, absence of intention, absence of mind, and absence of consciousness, Kāśyapa, this is called "the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way." 

All dharmas of virtue and nonvirtue, mundane and transcendent, with sin and without sin, contaminated and uncontaminated, compounded and uncompounded are just like that. 

Kāśyapa, "afflicted" is one extreme, "purified" is the second extreme. Whatever is  nonacceptance, nonexpression, or nonspeaking of those two extremes,  Kāśyapa, this is called "the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way." 

Kāśyapa, "existence" is one extreme, "nonexistence" is the second extreme. Whatever is between those two extremes cannot be investigated, demonstrated, cannot be a support, cannot appear, cannot be made known, and cannot abide. Kāśyapa, this is called "the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way." 

Kāśyapa, "samsara" is one extreme, "nirvana" is the second extreme. Whatever is between those two extremes cannot be investigated, demonstrated, cannot be a support, cannot appear, cannot be made known, and cannot abide. Kāśyapa, this is called "the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way." 

Kāśyapa, I have explained to you, "Through the condition of ignorance arise formations; through the condition of formations, consciousness; through the condition of consciousness, name-and-form; through the condition of name-and-form, six sense bases; through the condition of six-sense bases, contact; through the condition of contact, sensation; through the condition of sensation, craving; through the condition of craving, addiction; through the condition of addiction, becoming; through the condition of becoming, birth, through the condition of birth, aging-and-death, misery, lamentation, suffering, unhappiness, and the arising of disturbance. As such only a great mass of suffering arises. 

Because ignorance ceases, formations cease; because formations cease, consciousness ceases; because consciousness ceases, name-and-form ceases; because name-and-form ceases, the six sense bases cease; because the six sense bases cease, contact ceases; because contact ceases, sensation ceases; because sensation ceases, craving ceases; because craving ceases, addiction ceases; because addiction ceases, becoming ceases; because becoming ceases, birth ceases; because birth ceases, aging-and-death, misery, lamentation, unhappiness, and disturbance cease. As such, this whole mass of suffering ceases." 

Kāśyapa, knowledge and ignorance, those are not two, but are inseparable as two aspects.  Kāśyapa, knowledge of this is called the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way. 

Likewise, formations and the cessation of formations; consciousness and the cessation of consciousness; name-and-form and the cessation of name-and-form; six sense bases and the cessation of six sense bases; sensation and the cessation of sensation; craving and the cessation of craving; addiction and and the cessation of addiction; becoming and the cessation of becoming; birth and the cessation of birth; aging-and-death and the cessation of aging-and-death, those are not two, but are inseparable as two aspects. Knowledge of this is called "the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way." 

Kāśyapa, moreover, the true discernment into dharmas of the middle way is not making dharmas empty with emptiness, dharmas themselves are empty; it is not making dharmas without characteristics with the absence of characteristics; dharmas themselves lack characteristics; it is not making dharmas free of aspiration through aspirationlessness, dharmas themselves are without aspiration; it is not making dharmas unfabricated through nonfabrication, dharmas themselves are not fabricated; it is not making dharma not arise through nonarising, dharmas themselves do not arise; it is not making dharmas unproduced through nonproduction, dharmas themselves are unproduced; it is not making dharmas lack inherent existence through lacking inherent existence, dharmas themselves lack inherent existence. And such discernment, Kāśyapa, is called "the true discernment into the dharmas of the middle way."

And the Mahāparinirvana sūtra:

Bodhisattvas teach the middle way. If it is asked why, though all dharmas do not exist, it is also explained they do not not exist, and are not ascertained to be the same. Why? Consciousness arises by means of the condition of eye, form, light, mental factors, and the intellect. Also it is definite that consciousness does not exist in the eye, the form, the light, the mental factor, nor the the intellect, nor in between. It does not exist, it does not not exist, but because it arises from being dependently produced it is said "to exist." Because it has no inherent existence, it is said "not to exist." Therefore, the Tathāgata has said that though all dharmas do not exist neither do they not exist.

and the Ārya-mahāyānopadeśa-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra:

Abandoning all views is entering into the middle way, seeing all dharmas as equal.

But one does not need to propose a third truth to understand this.

Arya-pratyutpanne buddha-saṃmukhāvasthita-samādhi-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra:

Bhadrapāla, in that way, any son or daughter of a good family who wishes for perfect full awakening and any son or daughter of a good family who wishes for personal awakening, or any son or daughter of a good family who wishes for arhatship, they must investigate those dharmas. After they investigate those dharmas in that way, dharmas should not be investigated as pacified, nor should they be investigated as not pacified. Why Bhadrapāla? Because nothing is destroyed and nothing is born. If one conceives "all dharmas are pacified" in dharmas that are totally unestablished, this is one extreme. If one conceives "all dharmas are not pacified", this is the second extreme. 

Bhadrapāla, not perceiving, not conceiving, not establishing, not thinking about, and not engaging these two extremes—pacified and unpacified—is the middle way through the explanation of the mundane relative in a manner of enumeration, however, in the ultimate, the extremes or the middle are not perceived. Why Bhadrapāla? As such all phenomena are like space, equal with nirvana. They cannot be annihilated, cannot be destroyed, are not permanent, and do not exist forever. They do not abide in a region, they do not abide in a direction, they are without characteristics, and cannot be enumerated. Since they cannot even be approached by the learned through enumeration nor perceived, all phenomena are called "non-enumerable."


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 9:15 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Queequeg said:
To use ziporyn's terminology, local coherence (conventions/dharma's) / global incoherence (emptiness). A is A in contrast to Not A; but Not A is an arbitrary distinction (Buddha makes distinctions in order to teach - upaya); but if A is intelligible only contrasted with Not A, Not A is actually an integral aspect of A. Taken to it's end, everything turns out to be an aspect of A, which makes A incoherent when everything is taken into account. Without distinctions, A can't be discerned. A is the sum of everything Not A. Careful examination of A reveals only Not A.

That last analysis is Madhyamaka. The rest of the argument is a sort of reverse analysis. This is Zhiyi's threefold contemplation. The argument doesn't just devolve to emptiness as some interpretations of Madhyamaka argue. It is reversible. Emptiness after all is emptiness of a compound thing. There's no emptiness without a compounded thing. This fluid identity between compounded things and emptiness is called the middle. Nagarjuna says just this in 24:18.

Zhiyi also points out that this fluid identity is the Buddha function to point this out. We don't see it without the Buddha pointing this out. We are without buddha, naively convinced of the soldity of compounded dharmas. The fact that they are compounded though is the reality of buddha. Or in other words, middle way/buddha nature.

There is something else going on here than mere Madhyamaka.

Malcolm wrote:
Not so, there is also the emptiness of uncompounded entities.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 11:00 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
Aloke said:
Well, in one way or another, maybe as it seems is already done, or sooner or later, we will have someone giving transmissions in CNNR's Lineage. Deal with it.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct. The first teaching I attended by CHNN, in 1992, he very carefully went into what it meant to “hold a lineage.” The idea of “lineage holders” is politics, more about intellectual property than anything else. The ability to transmit teachings depends on whether one has realized the meaning of a teaching. That’s it. Therefor, students have to be very discerning about whom they choose to,follow. The criteria for being able to give teachings is very clearly laid out in the tantras. That should be our guide, not lineage politics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 10:53 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
I do want citations

Malcolm wrote:
Tomorrow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 10:52 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I'm not disagreeing that emptiness is suchness and suchness is emptiness and these all refer to the same.

I do want citations though, but not because I'm disputing it. I like reading. Ven Zhiyi himself says several times that suchness is emptiness, also that suchness is conventionality and that conventionality is emptiness, but I don't think that Ven Zhiyi has normal "Indian" Madhyamaka either.

Malcolm wrote:
I was responding QQ’s claim that emptiness was an extreme and suchness was term for freedom from extremes (the middle). It’s a baseless claim, one which cannot be supported in sutra, sashtra,  nor through reasoning.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 10:38 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Queequeg said:
middle=thusness; not just emptiness. emptiness is just another aspect of conventionality. middle in the sudden & perfect teaching is seeing both fully integrated. distinct teaching sees the three aspects of the perfect teaching distinctly. Perfect teaching is described in MMK 24:18

Malcolm wrote:
Suchness is also just a convention, it’s nothing more than emptiness. Suchness and emptiness are absiolute synonyms.

Caoimhghín said:
It's a difference of method being accompanied by different conceptions.

Malcolm wrote:
You want citations?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 10:36 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
Aloke said:
We can't simply say that he has a "conflict" with the Community, and not pay attention or disregard what he does, or in this case what he doesn't do or don't want to do.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure we can.


Aloke said:
If we admit that it was Rinpoche's wish to appoint Yeshi and his daughter (I'm not sure about his daughter but about Yeshi I certainly heard and read many times) as his lineage holders, we must also admit that Rinpoche knew very well what he was doing, and I'm sure he also knew his own son and daughter very well, and choosed to do so. Otherwise, we would be disrespecting Rinpoche's wish as a terton, (and also the legit lineage holders appointed by him, regardless if they want or not to have this position) or maybe saying that Rinpoche was wrong when appointing his son and daughter as his lineage holder, or even that Rinpoche doesn't know his own children very well. What would be absurd.

Malcolm wrote:
You are free to interpret things however you wish. So are others.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 9:47 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
Arnoud said:
Do you think anyone who has done the necessary retreats to act as a Vajra master can transmit them? Does that mean that any legitimate Vajra master can transmit any of the empowerments they themselves have received?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 9:42 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:


Arnoud said:
But isn't that the problem here? CNN didn't authorize anyone to transmit his Longsal cycle besides his children, neither of whom want to do that, and so there is really no-one to transmit it?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no official lineage holder. This does not mean that there are no people who are qualified to give the transmissions they have received.

Aloke said:
This doesn't seem to be the official position of the Dzogchen Community.

Malcolm wrote:
The Dzogchen Community, by their own admission, has no authority here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 9:39 AM
Title: Re: Books on Early Mahayana Development, History and Sutras
Content:
Padmist said:
I just want a historical account of how Mahayana started and developed. Not for religious practice.

I'm Tibetan Buddhist.

FiveSkandhas said:
The origin of Mahayana is one of the most contentious and unsettled questions in all of academic Buddhist studies. .....


Padmist said:
Your analysis is spot on. I started on this journey because discussing Buddhism online ultimately gets you exposed to arguments by others that their form of Buddhism is the pure, original, text-based, historical-based. It's not until you actually dig deeper at the evidence and then dig even deeper after that that you see the error of such claims. I'm in my early stages on my research (LaMotte, Williams, Nattier) but I'm getting an impression that Mahayana IS the true form of Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s a true form of Buddhism, not THE true form of Buddhism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 9:37 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Queequeg said:
middle=thusness; not just emptiness. emptiness is just another aspect of conventionality. middle in the sudden & perfect teaching is seeing both fully integrated. distinct teaching sees the three aspects of the perfect teaching distinctly. Perfect teaching is described in MMK 24:18

Malcolm wrote:
Suchness is also just a convention, it’s nothing more than emptiness. Suchness and emptiness are absiolute synonyms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 6:12 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:


PeterC said:
Well, others will have more detailed explanations, but just by the normal standards for transmission of lungs:
1/ the person giving it needs to be able to read it in the language it was originally given, and give any associated empowerments and methods of introduction required in order to read it;

Arnoud said:
But isn't that the problem here? CNN didn't authorize anyone to transmit his Longsal cycle besides his children, neither of whom want to do that, and so there is really no-one to transmit it?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no official lineage holder. This does not mean that there are no people who are qualified to give the transmissions they have received.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 4:52 AM
Title: Re: Books on Early Mahayana Development, History and Sutras
Content:
Padmist said:
I just want a historical account of how Mahayana started and developed. Not for religious practice.

I'm Tibetan Buddhist.

Malcolm wrote:
The traditional accounts and the accounts of western scholars are quite divergent. I personally prefer the traditional accounts, such as Buton's, Taranatha's, and so on.

That said, Indo-Tibetan Buddhism by Snellgrove is ok.

Indian Esoteric Buddhism: A Social History of the Tantric Movement is interesting for a review of post-Gupta Indian Buddhism.

I never read the Williams book. He became a Catholic.

Indian Buddhism: A Survey with Bibliographical Notes by Hajime Nakamura


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 20th, 2021 at 12:33 AM
Title: Re: Sakya Pandita's Ordinary Wisdom
Content:
Manjushri said:
While I do not wish to hijack the thread, since I'm genuinely interested in hearing other users opinions concerning the applicability and faithfulness of translation, I would also like to put out a question concerning the book.

I got an edition called "Elegant Sayings" containing Nagarjuna's "Staff of Wisdom" and Sakya Pandita's " A Precious Treasury of Elegant Sayings " and to my understanding, this Treasury is the same " Treasury of Good Advice " present in "Ordinary Wisdom". Will someone confirm this?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, they are the same.

Manjushri said:
Thanks, Malcolm. Really hope someone in a near future gets to translate his Treasury of Valid Reasoning as well to English.

Malcolm wrote:
It's in the works at Library of Tibetan Classics:

20. Tibetan Buddhist Epistemology I: The Sakya School (trans. Matthew Kapstein)


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 11:17 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



haha said:
For 22:16 "Whatever is the nature of the tathāgata, that is the nature of the world;
as the tathāgata has no nature, also the world has no nature."
I might be incorrect but it is about svabhava and nisvabhava. I did not see how the tathagata-garbha (buddha-nature) fits here.

Malcolm wrote:
For those whom emptiness is appropriate, everything is appropriate;
for those whom emptiness is not appropriate, nothing is appropriate.




haha said:
For catuskoti, there is correlation in 4 types of Samadhi of Tianti, then three truths.
That is: sitting, walking, walking and sitting, neither walking nor sitting.

Malcolm wrote:
The catuskoti is just a rhetorical device. It can be used and misused. But Nāgārjuna uses it as follows:

An existent does not arise from an existent;
an existent does not arise from a nonexistent;
a nonexistent does not arise from an existent;
a nonexistent does not arise from a nonexistent.
Where can there be arising?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 10:37 PM
Title: Re: Sakya Pandita's Ordinary Wisdom
Content:
Manjushri said:
While I do not wish to hijack the thread, since I'm genuinely interested in hearing other users opinions concerning the applicability and faithfulness of translation, I would also like to put out a question concerning the book.

I got an edition called "Elegant Sayings" containing Nagarjuna's "Staff of Wisdom" and Sakya Pandita's " A Precious Treasury of Elegant Sayings " and to my understanding, this Treasury is the same " Treasury of Good Advice " present in "Ordinary Wisdom". Will someone confirm this?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, they are the same.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 10:33 PM
Title: Re: Wait, so Karma and Rebirth don't exist?
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
The precise mechanics of Karma are considered one of the "four imponderables" (Acinteyya).

Therefore, o monks, do not brood over [any of these views] Such brooding, O monks, is senseless, has nothing to do with genuine pure conduct (s. ādibrahmacariyaka-sīla), does not lead to aversion, detachment, extinction, nor to peace, to full comprehension, enlightenment and Nibbāna, etc.
-Samyutta Nikaya 56

This has not stopped countless thinkers from formulating theories about karma, and such theorizing may fall outside the scope of the imponderables. Even so, it is a thorny topic to speculate too deeply upon, IMHO.

Malcolm wrote:
Buddha declared very simply what karma is: karma is volition and and what proceeds from volition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 10:30 PM
Title: Re: Are there any forms of Buddhism where ordination/priesthood does not require a 4 year degree?
Content:



FiveSkandhas said:
There is one traditional sect, the Risshu, that follows the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya quite strictly. Another traditional sect, the Shingon-Risshu, is also Vinaya-oriented, perhaps to a lesser degree than the former. Both are quite small.

Malcolm wrote:
Does the former still actually exist? I know it was one of the Nara schools. Has the Dharmaguptaka Ordination been reintroduced from China? Shingon Risshu is a formality, as far as I know, and it is a broken ordination lineage in any case.

FiveSkandhas said:
The Risshu Sect still exists at Toshodaiji Temple in Nara. They may have a few subsidiary temples still but I am not sure. They supposedly practice the full Dharmaguptaka Vinaya and train monks in the tradition at an institution called the Kaigakuin. I don't know whether their  Vinaya practice has remained unbroken since it was introduced in the 8th century by the Chinese monk Jianzhen.

As you note the Shingon-Risshu was established based self-ordination verified by miraculous signs. An elaborate rationalization for this based on several Mahayana Sutras exists, and some consider it a kind of Japanese equivalent to Terma Revelation, but the legitimacy of this lineage is certainly questionable from a continental and perhaps even Japanese perspective.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s questionable from the point of view of the three vows. Each set of vows has its own procedures. There is no bhiksu ordination rite prescribed in any Mahayana Sutra.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 10:28 PM
Title: Re: Sakya Pandita's Ordinary Wisdom
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
Hi,

does anyone have any experience/thoughts on this book called Ordinary Wisdom? https://wisdomexperience.org/product/ordinary-wisdom/

I have an old czech translation of the Treasury of Good Advice and would be quite interested in hearing people, how applicable the teachings are and if they have any experience with it and would recommend it. The Czech translation at least is really nicely translated into real verses, just it can be a bit harder to interpret thanks to it. So, what about the English version, how is it?

Malcolm wrote:
It’s quite good, since it also contain the commentary.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 9:04 PM
Title: Re: Are there any forms of Buddhism where ordination/priesthood does not require a 4 year degree?
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
These people are not bhiksus

FiveSkandhas said:
There is one traditional sect, the Risshu, that follows the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya quite strictly. Another traditional sect, the Shingon-Risshu, is also Vinaya-oriented, perhaps to a lesser degree than the former. Both are quite small.

Malcolm wrote:
Does the former still actually exist? I know it was one of the Nara schools. Has the Dharmaguptaka Ordination been reintroduced from China? Shingon Risshu is a formality, as far as I know, and it is a broken ordination lineage in any case.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 8:11 PM
Title: Re: Are there any forms of Buddhism where ordination/priesthood does not require a 4 year degree?
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
There is freedom of religion in Japan; anyone can shave their head, order some robes online, and call themselves a monk.

Apart from that, there are also "ordination mills" that promise to make you a prelate in a few months, usually for several thousand USD. They often have titles that resemble the kanji for traditional priest/monk (僧侶) but are subtly, cleverly different. They might have a name that resembles one of the thirteen traditional schools, but call themselves a "協会" (church) instead of a "sect" (宗). There are other tricks out there too.

There are also other "short cuts" into the traditional schools, but they are generally ment for children or relatives of traditional priests and may be hard for a layperson to make use of.

It also depends on the sect. Some are more stringent about training requirements than others.

But despite the fact that the most "orthodox" route involves a 4-year university and time training at a temple under a priest, the ordinarion situation in Japan can be described as "eclectic." I personally know of one "self ordained" Jodo Shinshu monk who has a stable position at a respected medium-sized temple staffed by fellow monks who followed the more orthodox route, and he seems to be accepted by the institution as legitimate. I am not sure how he pulled that off.

Malcolm wrote:
These people are not bhiksus


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 10:47 AM
Title: Re: Are there any forms of Buddhism where ordination/priesthood does not require a 4 year degree?
Content:
Snowbeast said:
So this is just something I have been interested in for a while. Does anyone know if there are any schools of Buddhism that do not require a four year degree for ordination? It seems like most Japanese schools do, Jodo Shinshu definitely does, and in Jodo Shu the training for monks is equivalent to a four year degree. Are there any schools that do all of the training for becoming a monk or priest within the temple? Are there any Buddhist varieties  that require a long training session but it is not related to western style four year education? If anyone could explain how ordination works in their particular school it would be very interesting to hear.

Malcolm wrote:
Tibetan Buddhism schools do not require a four year degree. Just celibacy.

Chaz said:
For the title "Lama" you'd have to do a three-year retreat.  That's Kagyu, BTW.

Malcolm wrote:
That has nothing to do with ordination.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 6:03 AM
Title: Re: Namkhai Norbu lineage
Content:
Atton said:
Hello there

I gave another student of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu a lung of a Longsal text.

Malcolm wrote:
Good luck with that. Let us know how it goes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 5:50 AM
Title: Re: Is Nostalgia and Enjoying Happy Memories Okay in Buddhism?
Content:
Roro said:
The whole “live in the moment and don’t dwell in the past” thing can be a concern of mine regarding nostalgia.

Malcolm wrote:
Could be a fake buddha quote.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 3:21 AM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
I'm also concerned about setting a precedent. It only takes a little bit to have everyone threatening hell against each other for various frivolous reasons related to personal disputes.

Malcolm wrote:
You know what they say: Heaven for the climate, hell for the company.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 2:42 AM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I could have corrected you without implying that misunderstanding Ven Nagarjuna leads to hell. Sorry.

Malcolm wrote:
But indeed, it is a kind of Buddhist hell to misunderstand Nāgārjuna...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 2:04 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
haha said:
What is Buddha nature? That is not talked at least in Mulamadhayamakakarika. I have no idea where it fits in eightfold negation or in fourfold negation.

Malcolm wrote:
"Whatever is the nature of the tathāgata, that is the nature of the world;
as the tathāgata has no nature, also the world has no nature."

I think that sums the MMK position on buddhanature pretty well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 19th, 2021 at 1:38 AM
Title: Re: Accounting for the Chinese Destruction of Tibet
Content:
Matt J said:
I suppose one could flip the question as ask why it lasted as long as it did...

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not like that. A corrupt country always plants the seeds of its own demise, and Tibet, politically speaking, was extremely corrupt.
Well, in a sense it didn't. There were various periods in Tibetan history, and "Tibet" as a monolith, is a western invention. So, many kingdoms in Tibet rose and fell, and along with them, the fortunes of various schools. The demise of these kingdoms was always tied to corruption somehow.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


tkp67 said:
Say what you like about Nichiren but the Lotus is still established and being practiced in Japan. Japanese buddhism has carried that nation to prosperity in a way that is reflective of the blessing of the Lotus itself.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s a nice declaration of faith, but that’s about it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 10:11 PM
Title: Re: Accounting for the Chinese Destruction of Tibet
Content:
Brahma said:
Look at the Government in the U.S.A. . What is here? Meat eating on the level of genocide. Abortion. WMDs. But we all know, sense, feel, and understand that this Nation should not be invaded or overthrown by anyone, and that there is still and will always be hope for it. The same is for Peaceful Buddhist Tibet, which can still be mined for Buddhist Dharma like you say by the honest Practitioner with the craftsmanship of education. Om.

Malcolm wrote:
The USA was founded as a slave-owning nation bent on exterminating an indigenous population. From whom did the Chinese get the idea they could do the same? The USA. Concentration camps, systematic genocide, the use of incarcerated labor were all modeled by our country first.

Our only saving grace is democracy, which has slowly allowed us to transcend these sordid origins. But as Trumpism shows us, our republic is fragile and easily damaged.

Tibet was an aristocratic autocracy where the nobility could injure the common folk with absolute impunity. There was no justice system, so while a thief might lose a hand or an eye, aristocrats just became more and more wealthy. The amount of child abuse in Tibetan monasteries was staggering, the amount of rape in Tibetan culture was likewise staggering. Murder was very common. Cruelty to animals was commonplace. Literacy was no more than 15 percent of the population. Now, was Tibet an incredible civilization with many redeeming qualities as well? Certainly, but all we see is the literary culture of Tibet. We do not see the Tibet of the average person, whose voices are only rarely heard in the writings of the elite scholars and yogis whom we admire so much.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 9:41 PM
Title: Re: State supported Buddhism and engaged Buddhism
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
In the West, which has never had a tradition of state support, "engaged Buddhism" also can serve as a way of connecting Buddhist centers and other institutions with society at large.

Malcolm wrote:
The best thing engaged Buddhists can do is support democracy and secular ethics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 9:29 PM
Title: Re: Accounting for the Chinese Destruction of Tibet
Content:
Brahma said:
...a Spiritually motivated civilization...

PeterC said:
...is really not what Tibet was at the end.  One would need to ignore history to believe that. The Tibetan state contained the Dharma like gold encased in dirt.

Malcolm wrote:
Also, not in the beginning or the middle.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 9:28 PM
Title: Re: Accounting for the Chinese Destruction of Tibet
Content:
Brahma said:
Bad people who wanted to create a materialistic atheistic government wanted to wipe out the power and strength of a Spiritually motivated civilization. Luckily Tibet is still holding on. You think Bodhisattvas don't suffer? You think it's all some kind of deserved karma? Revaluate your perception of cause and effect, and of this extremely unfair world. Only compassion and Maitri is fair, so fully turn to that, and never let go of Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
But it wasn’t a spiritually motivated civilization. Tibet was in a state of constant internecine warfare, tribe against tribe, school against school, monastery against monastery, region against region. Time to take off the rose colored spectacles.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 11:18 AM
Title: Re: "Please allow me to introduce myself..." - Rolling Stones
Content:
tony_montana said:
Hi Everyone,

I'm new here and would love to say hi to everybody. I have a great interest in Vajrayana. Nothing more to add at this point, just that I hope to have great interactions with everybody.

Warm regards,
Tony

Malcolm wrote:
Great song.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 9:49 AM
Title: Re: Accounting for the Chinese Destruction of Tibet
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
They have a variety of answers. Shugden is one of the main ones. Because the Tibetan Govt. was dominated by the Shugden faction, the reasoning goes, Palden Lhamo and Nechung abandoned the Tibetan state.

n8pee said:
Isn't there also just the sad fact that a culture focused on spiritual pursuit will always lose to a more militaristic focused culture? We're in samsara after all.

Malcolm wrote:
It’s not like that. A corrupt country always plants the seeds of its own demise, and Tibet, politically speaking, was extremely corrupt.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 9:19 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
illarraza said:
Nagarjuna stated in his treatise, the Great Perfection of Wisdom,

Malcolm wrote:
This text is not by  Nagarjuna. It is too large to go unnoticed by Indian scholars, and no Indian scholar in the Madhyamaka school mentions it.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 8:57 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Hi Mark


illarraza said:
Therefore, contrary to Malcolm's assertion, Nagarjuna's did postulate Three Truths in his Tetralemma but they differ slightly from Tientai's Three Truths. According to Nichiren, Tientai's Three Truths are the "unification of the Three Truths".

Malcolm wrote:
I appreciate your attempt at an argument, but fact is that Nagarjuna only discusses two truths. There isn’t a single citation from Nagarjuna which you can use to justify such a position. The Buddha himself rejects to idea that there is a third truth. I cited the sutra passage in previous discussion with QQ.

The fourfold negation is not a formulation of three truths. It is a step-by-step negation of erroneous propositions about things. It is not in fact a postulate; Nagarjuna has no postulates. His dialectic is strictly negative. For Nagarjuna, there are only veridical perceptions, or false perceptions. There are no perceptions that are simultaneously true and false. Hence, there is no third truth, punto cerrado.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Queequeg said:
Strictly speaking, though, I think when you say something like that to people who adhere more strictly to Madhyamaka, they will very strongly disagree... "There are only two truths, not three!" I believe you've participated in some of these arguments on DW.

Malcolm wrote:
Even the Buddha said there were only two truths, not three. But we had that convo already, people can look it up.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 1:50 AM
Title: Re: Accounting for the Chinese Destruction of Tibet
Content:
Matt J said:
If Tibetan Buddhism has some of the highest teachings, advanced practitioners, etc. including powerful tantric practices, how do Tibetan sources account for the Chinese invasion and destruction of Tibet?

Malcolm wrote:
They have a variety of answers. Shugden is one of the main ones. Because the Tibetan Govt. was dominated by the Shugden faction, the reasoning goes, Palden Lhamo and Nechung abandoned the Tibetan state.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 18th, 2021 at 12:02 AM
Title: Re: Is This A Tribal Site Or A Philosophy Site?
Content:
NatureTalk said:
I must honestly report that I don't find this consistent pattern of little lectures from almost every member to be very interesting at all, and if that's what Buddhism is, it seems true I'm in the wrong place.

Malcolm wrote:
The problem may lie with you rather than with Buddhism. Just something for you to chew on.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 17th, 2021 at 2:22 AM
Title: Re: My problem with Enlightenment
Content:
Vinc said:
First Problem: When "I" don't exist, why should "I" pursue enlightenment then?

Malcolm wrote:
Where did the Buddha say you don't exist?


Vinc said:
Second Problem: How can enlightenment be permanent?

Malcolm wrote:
In the same way a burnt seed is not viable, and never will be.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 17th, 2021 at 2:19 AM
Title: Re: Buddhism and missionary work
Content:


Alastair said:
so why have I never noticed Buddhists doing missionary work? Do Buddhists do that?

Malcolm wrote:
Because, you can't convert people to Dharma. All you can do is hold it up as something they might be interested in, the rest is up to them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 17th, 2021 at 2:16 AM
Title: Re: Buddhāvataṃsaka Reflections
Content:
Queequeg said:
He ought to start by understanding his own professed path.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, that is a desiderata, certainly.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 7:53 PM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Sure there is—the gift of Dharma.

Brahma said:
"It doesn't matter whether one calls oneself a Buddhist or not a Buddhist. The Dharma is Love." ~ H.E. Garchen Rinpoche
This can be applied to Zen Buddhism as well as the mind of Enlightenment is a mind that is Only full of Love. Everyone's original state was once Love, and returning to it and Advancing to a stage of non-regressive Enlightenment is the goal. I could have said the Dharma is Love myself, but it is good to feel it from a Powerful Source as well.

Malcolm wrote:
Neither love nor compassion are strong enough to uproot the causes of suffering, according to Dharmakirti. YMMV


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 7:40 PM
Title: Re: Buddhāvataṃsaka Reflections
Content:
tkp67 said:
By evoking the gate I choose you draw the tradition I practice into the conversation.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I am talking about you, specifically, one who constantly pontificates about all Buddhists traditions having studied pretty much none of them in any depth at all.

tkp67 said:
If you want to claim that buddhism is somehow proprietary have at it. If my actions are inappropriate from the perceptive of the teachings or teachers I follow I suggest you correct me.

Vague platitudes that don't reveal fault but simply point to it without distinction while nothing more than unproductive conceptual proliferation is also provisional.

If you are going to claim fire at least prove there is smoke, it makes for a much more interesting use of bandwidth imho.


Malcolm wrote:
I can’t correct you, only you can correct you. But I suggest you might do thus by studying with some teachers outside your tradition for a change.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 7:37 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


tkp67 said:
I expect direct, distinct answers in the context of the Nichiren tradition so you can demonstrate the compassion, equanimity, boundlessness and purity you propose you understand so succinctly.


Malcolm wrote:
The point is that you not studied anything outside it. That’s ok, but it necessarily means your perspective on Dharma is very narrow. Not that my perspective is universal, I’ve never deeply studied Chan, etc., mainly because what appeals to me is Indo-Tibetan Buddhism. We have our own triumphalism, and it’s equally as silly as your’s.

tkp67 said:
No.

There is no triumphalism in a vehicle regardless of tradition from the perspective of the buddha. This is simply a human construct.

Malcolm wrote:
So now you are speaking from the perspective of a buddha? You really do need to go back and examine  your posts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 3:37 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
A drunk and bellicose stranger walks into bar....

NatureTalk said:
A pompous know it all strides arrogantly in to a bar, demands the stage, and begins to lecture everyone about only he knows the real Buddhism, thus distracting everyone from what could have been an intelligent conversation.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, stranger, I've was standing at this bar already when you walked in, and have been standing here since it opened, pompous know-it-all that I may be, and in all likelihood, I will be standing here long after you've decided to move on...so there is that. But one thing I will tell you, and it will be true, I know more about Buddhism than you do.

As for patting yourself on the back for your intelligence, did it ever occur to you announcing your arrival like this was immediately antagonistic?

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=565190#p565190

Now, I've pointed out to you that the Buddha did not really address the issues you want to address, but if you wish to see how they explored by Buddhists, I direct you to the https://blogs.dickinson.edu/buddhistethics/ where you may, if you choose, educate yourself on the subject.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 2:39 AM
Title: Re: What Is The Nature Of Thought?
Content:
Archie2009 said:
NatureTalk, a good academic introduction to Nagarjuna's thought would be Jan Westerhoff's Nagarjuna's Madhyamaka: A Philosophical Introduction.

NatureTalk said:
Thank you.  If you, or anyone, can reference a non-academic introduction that could be helpful as well.

If Nagarjuna can only be understood by academics, ok, to each their own of course, but personally I don't really believe in the value of any philosophy which can only be communicated to academics.  You know, 99% of humanity are not academics, so....

jake said:
I agree, I also think that when I'm in China all the signs should be in English. Or in France, so many tourists come to France but all the signs and menus are in French. It's just not something I really believe has value. If they really wanted to have visitors and tourists then everything in their country should be in plain English, then the tourists don't have to make any effort at all. Right?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 2:25 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
Here’s a Buddhist term for you to look up: Prapanca

Malcolm wrote:
It's been suggested already, but to no avail.

A drunk and bellicose stranger walks into bar, sits down, and starts raving about shit no one in the bar cares about. Eventually, after being ignored by the regulars, offended that no one offers to buy him a beer, the stranger lurches unsteadily onto his feet and heads out to find another bar.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 2:00 AM
Title: Re: What Is The Nature Of Thought?
Content:
NatureTalk said:
You know, 99% of humanity are not academics, so....

Malcolm wrote:
99 percent of humans will also never transcend samsara in this lifetime, so there is that...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 1:35 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist Theory of Momentariness - Sources for Studying
Content:
Manjushri said:
I've been interested in the concept of Time

Malcolm wrote:
In Abhidharma, the basic unit of time the duration of a thought. That is the basis for calculating time in Buddhadharma in the Indian tradition. Not sure about the Theravadin tradition.

See my blog post here:

http://www.bhaisajya.net/2008/10/time-in-tibetan-medicine.html

So basically, there are 75 moments in one second. That is the smallest unit of time in the Indian Buddhist tradition.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 12:54 AM
Title: Re: What Is The Nature Of Thought?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
You don't really understand what freedom from views really means here.

NatureTalk said:
I understand only that just about every one of your posts seems to be about how you understand and I don't.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, given that I have studied and practice Buddhadharma since 1985, and you haven't studied or practiced it at all...you do the math.

I can see however you just want to blather on, so, enjoy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: What Is The Nature Of Thought?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Freedom from views is something one realizes, it’s not a position one holds.

NatureTalk said:
To counter in a more constructive manner, I would propose that freedom from views is something one experiences.   It comes, and it goes, like everything else.

Malcolm wrote:
You don't really understand what freedom from views really means here.

Do you actually want to understand, or are you just passing through? Let me know, since that will determine whether I concern myself with you any longer.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 12:12 AM
Title: Re: Soto zen and problem of satori
Content:
Brahma said:
there is no higher gift than the gift of Love. Om.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure there is—the gift of Dharma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 16th, 2021 at 12:11 AM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:


Jeff H said:
If modern America can eventually admit to and atone for its inherent racism, that will be the moral answer to our ancestors’ sins in a Buddhist sense.

Malcolm wrote:
And, karma is unerring. To the extent that Americans perpetuate white supremacy, to that extent they continue to reproduce the errors of the past.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 11:48 PM
Title: Re: What Is The Nature Of Thought?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
No, actually this is not the case.

NatureTalk said:
Of course not.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, of course not. Someone here recommended you might be interested in Madhyamaka. When you study that subject, you will understand the basis for mine and Peter’s comments. Until then, probably not.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 11:44 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Don’t hate the player, hate the game. Reminder, you brought the game here.

NatureTalk said:
I don't hate anybody here, just to be clear.  Really I don't.  I'm just not rewarding automated rejectionism with my time, that's all.  However, every post and every thread is a fresh start.

Malcolm wrote:
Use better examples, that’s my advice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 11:28 PM
Title: Re: What Is The Nature Of Thought?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Freedom from views is the only corrective to views.

NatureTalk said:
Ok thanks, this is interesting.   If the problem we are trying to address arises from thought itself, and if all views are made of thought, then freedom from views seems a sensible corrective.  But then, this becomes yet another view, and we're back in the same old game.

Malcolm wrote:
No, actually this is not the case. Freedom from views is something one realizes, it’s not a position one holds.

As Nagarjuna puts it, “if I had a thesis, I would be at fault, since I alone have no thesis, I alone am free of fault.”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 11:25 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:
NatureTalk said:
Ok, posts being killed by moderators now.  We've entered the realm of too inconvenient to bear I guess.  No worries, that always happens.

Malcolm wrote:
More likely, bellicose stranger walks into bar and expresses surprise when regulars begin to object...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 11:10 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
in India, rather than attempting to codify a social ethic, Buddhists typically relied on the treatises, called niti shastras, that already addressed such issues.

NatureTalk said:
I hear you to be saying that somebody (the authors of the niti shastras?) codified morality, and then most others decided not to think such issues through for themselves but to rely instead on the authority of the treatises?  Is this a fair summary?  If yes, then much the same thing would seem to have happened in the West, and probably pretty much everywhere else, such is the human condition.

Malcolm wrote:
I guess you don’t understand much about classical Indian civilization, it’s culture and philosophy. You might try reading Coursebook in Indian Philosophy first, and come back and tell us about how little Indians thought about such issues, ‘k?

NatureTalk said:
Likewise, I mentioned that the answers for theses issues will not be found in Buddhism,
Not arguing, because again I know little about Buddhism.  Just a tad confused because earlier in the thread there seemed to be a consensus that Buddhism did provide moral guidance.

Malcolm wrote:
For some issues, not for others. In other words, he did not provide a comprehensive moral catechism. He provided moral guidance only for personal actions, and really did not discuss social issues very much.

NatureTalk said:
but rather in a robust formulation of secular ethics, as HH Dalai Lama has indicated in an entire book he wrote on the inadequacy of all religious ethical traditions to deal with social justice issues and so on.
I am of course unfamiliar with the book.

Malcolm wrote:
It is called Beyond Religion. In it, he argues, and I agree, that all religions are inadequate when it comes to providing comprehensive ethical guidance in a diverse world. There he argues strongly for secular ethics removed from religious contexts.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 11:00 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This just means your efforts at getting your message out were inadequate. Did you actually reach a billion people? A million? How can you say a billion Catholics were not interested in your specific campaign if you did not manage to reach a billion Catholics?

NatureTalk said:
I agree that all problems described above are entirely a result of my own personal failings and poorly implemented tactics and that in no case could any of the issues described in any way be a function of any kind of imperfection in any tribal society, philosophy, religious authority or anything at all except me.  Amen.

Malcolm wrote:
You just picked a bad example. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. Reminder, you brought the game here.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 10:54 PM
Title: Re: What Is The Nature Of Thought?
Content:


NatureTalk said:
If division and conflict arise primarily from the content of thought, then some flavor of philosophy would seem suggested to correct the damaged content..

Malcolm wrote:
Holding onto views does not correct other views, it merely causes more views. Freedom from views is the only corrective to views.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:


NatureTalk said:
What is the appropriate (according to Buddhism) relationship of an individual American Buddhist to the fact that they are likely living on stolen property?

Malcolm wrote:
But we aren’t. If I own a house on the East Coast of the US, I have a deed, which shows a line of ownership which will go back to one of the kings of England. So, not stolen according to our system of jurisprudence.  For example, the town I live in was divided up into forty acre lots, which were given to veterans of the French-Indian war after it ended in 1764. These plots were awarded by the crown. And actually, the area where I live was not claimed by any tribe. All the tribes lived down near the Connecticut River, not up in the hills. It was territory where hostile tribes would fight each other, kind a no mans lands between the Mohawks of the Hudson River valley in New York and Nonotuck Tribes.


NatureTalk said:
Buddhist ethical theory is about personal conduct,
There you go, that's all I'm saying.  Personal conduct in relation to the environment which we inhabit.  Relevant.  On topic.  Or so it seems to me.

Malcolm wrote:
You missed the point. Buddha’s teachings are not equipped to handle social justice issues. They provide no comment or remedies. When the Buddha’s relatives were carried off into slavery he sat under a dead tree and watched, impassive, from a distance.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 10:36 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:
NatureTalk said:
I'm not trying to attack Buddhism here, so nobody really needs to get defensive. I'm attempting to make a larger point about ALL ideologies, indeed all humans.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and?

NatureTalk said:
The question, for all ideologies, is do we actually believe them?  Here's an example from elsewhere which may help illustrate.

On the anniversary of the Hiroshima atomic attack the Pope went to Japan and gave a speech on the subject, outlining Catholic moral doctrine on such issues.  The Pope's a nice guy, and he means well, but....  He didn't ask anybody to do anything specific.

So I came up with a specific suggestion which I then tried to sell online.  If each Catholic donated $1 per year that would raise a billion dollars a year to bring further attention to the subject of nuclear weapons, as seen from the Catholic perspective.  Absolutely no interest, none whatsoever.

This naturally raises the question, do Catholics believe the Pope when he says nuclear weapons are an important threat?  Does the Pope even believe that?  Or is it just pleasing moral theory which is fun to say?

Malcolm wrote:
This just means your efforts at getting your message out were inadequate. Did you actually reach a billion people? A million? How can you say a billion Catholics were not interested in your specific campaign if you did not manage to reach a billion Catholics?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 10:33 PM
Title: Re: Mahayana Sutras Lack Oral Transmission?
Content:
Bodhiquest said:
There's nothing much that would allow us to conclusively say that certain ideas and teachings were never given by the Buddha and were simply developed later by "philosophers" and the like.

Astus said:
That's not necessarily so. For instance, the concept of alayavijnana is a later development as we can see in the Mahayanasamgraha how Asanga has to explain himself for proposing its existence, and what scriptural sources he can present (abhidharma works and the Samdhinirmocana Sutra), while 5 centuries later Jinamitra quotes from several Mahayana sutras (see 'The Ālaya-Consciousness in Yogācāra Treatises' in the Introduction of 'A Compendium of the Mahayana' by Brunnholzl, vol 1). Similarly, where one finds the mention of ideas that are not found in the Agamas but only in abhidharma texts, unless we attribute such abhidharma treatises to the Buddha, the sutras using such concepts are necessarily later than the Agamas.

Malcolm wrote:
The answer is that there is an oral transmission for the Tibetan canon. Questions of the source of the Mahayana are adequately answered in traditional accounts. Text critical scholarship is fine, but it has nothing to do with the aim of Mahayana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 10:24 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


tkp67 said:
I expect direct, distinct answers in the context of the Nichiren tradition so you can demonstrate the compassion, equanimity, boundlessness and purity you propose you understand so succinctly.


Malcolm wrote:
The point is that you not studied anything outside it. That’s ok, but it necessarily means your perspective on Dharma is very narrow. Not that my perspective is universal, I’ve never deeply studied Chan, etc., mainly because what appeals to me is Indo-Tibetan Buddhism. We have our own triumphalism, and it’s equally as silly as your’s.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 10:20 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


tkp67 said:
If the Japanese held a teaching for this long does it not deserve as much?

Malcolm wrote:
The Peace Pagoda people are nice. I go to their stupa in Leverett, Ma sometimes. It has beautiful grounds and a sapling of the Bodhi tree there. I sit on the grounds and do my own practice, circumambulate the stupa. The monks and nuns there are nice. Right down the hill from them is a Theravada monastery.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 10:04 PM
Title: Re: Buddhāvataṃsaka Reflections
Content:
tkp67 said:
By evoking the gate I choose you draw the tradition I practice into the conversation.

Malcolm wrote:
No, I am talking about you, specifically, one who constantly pontificates about all Buddhists traditions having studied pretty much none of them in any depth at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 10:00 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



tkp67 said:
I did. Non Buddhist vehicles. Your presumption was just that.

Your desires fulfill your view of me not my interpretation of reality. I am reportedly too misunderstood for that one. Right?

Malcolm wrote:
I see, so you examined a bunch of nonbuddhist traditions in order to establish that you have discovered the definitive buddhist practice, but without exploring other buddhist traditions, correct?

My presumption, just to correct you, was that you were asserting that you had explored other buddhist traditions. Why would I care about your exploration of Hinduism, Christianity, etc.?

tkp67 said:
Why would you care about how the causes, conditions and capacity of others facilitates the propagation of buddhism in others?

You care enough to participate in the sub forum of the traditions that teach the importance of such thing and the necessity to recognize the conditioning involved in the perceived differentiation.

If one does not understand how these things fit within the narrative of the LS then perhaps you don't care about the Lotus and thus should avoid discussions that you don't care about. Trying to assert some lack on my part to understand this thing will exhaust you alone.

Malcolm wrote:
Again, the point is that you have not really explored Buddhism at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 9:37 PM
Title: Re: Buddhāvataṃsaka Reflections
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
My random musings. Very sophomoric. You (Malcolm) needn't feel pressured to respond. Has anyone else read or tried to read the Flower Garland?

Malcolm wrote:
Clearly’s translation is basically a CF. But, if one knows a primary language it is useful as a framework.

The Avatamsaka is about you,it’s about your own state, not something far away...but then all Buddhist sutras, including those “inferior” words of the Buddha in the shravaka canon are as well.

tkp67 said:
To see it as that is a misinterpretation of what Nichiren was trying to teach. Since his teaching was meant to be ambiguous on the outside to all an adaptive to the relative causes, conditions and capacities of the practitioner this subtle type of snark is really systematic slander.

Malcolm wrote:
Tkp67, we are not in the Nichiren forum, and my comment was directed at any person who feels that among the words of the Buddha, some are superior and some are inferior. I was not talking about Nichiren at all. So take a breath.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: Buddhāvataṃsaka Reflections
Content:



tkp67 said:
It is paramount in the perspective of the LS but most importantly in the Nichiren tradition that this aspect is an active part of propagation not an ultimate destination or one risks the devil of the sixth heaven (self) to arise in its place.

Malcolm wrote:
"Freedom from all views" means that one has realized suchness. There is no danger of devaputra māra here.

tkp67 said:
That doesn't address how others who read that type of division will interpret it. This is one of the subtleties that seems to stand clear for me in the LS and Nichiren's teachings.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s merely because you don’t appreciate the subtly of the heart sutra, and on and on. You picked a dharma gate, there are 83,999 others for you to examine.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 9:13 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:


NatureTalk said:
I'm not trying to attack Buddhism here, so nobody really needs to get defensive. I'm attempting to make a larger point about ALL ideologies, indeed all humans.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 9:09 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Taking what is not given, I.e stealing, is strictly defined in Buddhism as depriving another of something they believe they possess. Our notion that we stole land from Natives is rather modern, and involves concepts of property we introduced. Thus, I am not sure your shifting of goal posts is applicable.

NatureTalk said:
Ok, point taken, but perhaps we are getting a bit too clever?

It's true that the Indian concept of land ownership was quite different than the European concept.  Nonetheless, the Indians lived off a particular area of land, and Europeans kicked them off and took over that area.  To be fair, the Indians often did the same thing amongst themselves.

This thread is in part an exploration of the tribal nature of ideologies (not just Buddhism).  We can observe how at the moment that the thought experiment became inconvenient we jumped from a seemingly universal peaceful agreement to a pattern of dodge and weave rationalizations, ie. a defense of the tribal territory.  The exact same thing happened when I posed these questions on a Catholic forum.

I don't see this as an exclusive property of Buddhism or any other religion, but instead a universal property of all ideologies (as best I can tell).  We attach ourselves to some collection of thoughts, and when that collection of thoughts is perceived to be under threat we circle the wagons and start moving towards conflict.

Typically we try to solve this by jumping from one ideology to another.  If we see the Christians in conflict with each other, we turn up our noses and try some other religion.  But the pattern of conflict seems to follow us where ever we go.   What can we learn from that?

The thread might also be seen as an exploration of the limits of ideology.   Europe was dominated by Christianity to a degree unimaginable to us today for 1,000 years before the European discovery of North America.   1,000 years.  And yet that didn't stop there from being a very wide spread largely uncontested nearly universal consensus for genocide once some inconvenient people got in the way.

Ok, there's been some improvement along the way.  We aren't that in to genocide now, but we're still content to sit on the stolen property without much concern.  We don't even think of it as stolen property.

And let's not pick on religion here.  Science culture philosophy claims we should accumulate new knowledge as fast as we possibly can, even though that process has aimed thousands of massive hydrogen bombs down our throats.  We see the threat, and are largely bored by it.

Is morality a myth?  Ok, too sweeping a question. But not that unreasonable.


Malcolm wrote:
But I already provided you with your answer: in India, rather than attempting to codify a social ethic, Buddhists typically relied on the treatises, called niti shastras, that already addressed such issues. Likewise, I mentioned that the answers for theses issues will not be found in Buddhism, but rather in a robust formulation of secular ethics, as HH Dalai Lama has indicated in an entire book he wrote on the inadequacy of all religious ethical traditions to deal with social justice issues and so on.

So, the answer to your question still remains as above,


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 12:53 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



tkp67 said:
Bingo.

Malcolm wrote:
Try answering the question.

tkp67 said:
I did. Non Buddhist vehicles. Your presumption was just that.

Your desires fulfill your view of me not my interpretation of reality. I am reportedly too misunderstood for that one. Right?

Malcolm wrote:
I see, so you examined a bunch of nonbuddhist traditions in order to establish that you have discovered the definitive buddhist practice, but without exploring other buddhist traditions, correct?

My presumption, just to correct you, was that you were asserting that you had explored other buddhist traditions. Why would I care about your exploration of Hinduism, Christianity, etc.?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 12:29 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
He doesn't Buddhist vehicle. Definitely not IMO. Maybe I'm wrong. He's talking about contemporary sects and traditions.

tkp67 said:
Bingo.

Malcolm wrote:
Try answering the question.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 12:28 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
So pratyekabuddhayāna and not śrāvakayāna? Whyso?

Malcolm wrote:
It includes both.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 12:27 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Queequeg said:
I expect that the laws affecting online media will be revised early in the Biden administration. The easiest thing to do would be the revocation of immunity for entities that manage or host sites. That, however, is a very blunt remedy that would have deep and far reaching effects. Sites even like this one would have to carefully review moderation procedures. That might be going too far. A partial revocation of immunity, along with statutory procedures for parties to have content removed along with private means of enforcement could go a long way. Even that, though would have very stark effects.

It is likely the internet is going to change dramatically in the coming years.

Malcolm wrote:
Nothing is going to happen to Section 230, not in the near future, anyway. All that needs to happen is that existing laws are applied to White ISIS.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 15th, 2021 at 12:07 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Well, there you go.

Do people actually approach Buddhist sects with the idea of "this sect is X vehicle of the three vehicles?" I don't, because almost every single Buddhist sect is nominally Mahayana anyways and I'm no longer interested in Theravada Buddhism after a two year flirtation with it. "The three vehicles" are not a useful hermeneutic to classify contemporary Buddhist sects by in my opinion.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure they are: Theravadins by and large aspire to arhatship and pratyekabuddhahood. Mahāyānis aspire to full buddhahood.


Caoimhghín said:
If people do approach Buddhist sects with the idea of "this sect is X vehicle of the three vehicles," then which sect would constitute the pratyekabuddha vehicle sect?

Malcolm wrote:
Theravada.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 11:58 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



tkp67 said:
For as long as I can remember I have treated all beings as if they had the capacity to hold this gem even though the declined to do so. The inability to manifest the later was what attracted me to Nichiren's teaching in the first place because all previous vehicles and teachings has predicates and limits.

Malcolm wrote:
Because you so thoroughly investigated all of them.....riiiight.

tkp67 said:
Before I answer that succinctly why not define them. Do you mean Buddhist vehicle?

Malcolm wrote:
Of course.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 11:40 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Queequeg said:
Showing profound compassion for those unable to comprehend the gem of the doctrine of three thousand realms in a single moment of life, the Buddha wrapped it within the five characters [of Myoho-renge-kyo], with which he then adorned the necks of the ignorant people of the latter age.
-Kanjin no Honzon sho

That is no minor teaching. It is profoundly honest about our reality as human beings, realistic about the capacities of most people, practical in foregoing high expectations implicit in much of Buddhist teachings, and profoundly caring in being accessible to a wide range of people.

tkp67 said:
For as long as I can remember I have treated all beings as if they had the capacity to hold this gem even though the declined to do so. The inability to manifest the later was what attracted me to Nichiren's teaching in the first place because all previous vehicles and teachings has predicates and limits.

Malcolm wrote:
Because you so thoroughly investigated all of them.....riiiight.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 10:57 PM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
PeterC said:
Two things that you should always do when you engage counsel: sign an engagement letter, and pay them. Because if you don't, you may find yourself unable to enjoy privilege, which in this case would be highly entertaining. I'm sure trump did neither.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-wont-pay-rudy-giuliani-election-legal-work_n_5fffa763c5b6c77d85ecbe46


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 10:43 PM
Title: Re: Buddhist Morality
Content:
NatureTalk said:
New user here, know little about Buddhism.   Here's a thought experiment which may with your help expand my understanding.

Let's say I've stolen my neighbor's car.  Unless you correct me, I'll assume for now that Buddhism would advise me to return it.

Let's say my father stole the car and gave it to me.  I had nothing to do with the theft, but I know it was stolen and who the rightful owner is.  Return the car?

Let's say my great grandfather stole the car, and it was passed it down through the family each generation.  Now I own the car (must be an early Model T Ford!), I know it was stolen, and which family it was stolen from.  Return the car?

Malcolm wrote:
If you know it’s stolen, and you accept it, you participated in its theft just as much as the original thief.

This is the classical Buddhist position.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 9:54 AM
Title: Re: Some questions about Shingon
Content:


Queequeg said:
Again, are only those who receive a vinaya ordination monks?

Malcolm wrote:
The only people who can bear the appellation bhiksu are those who have been ordained into one of three surviving vinaya lineages: Theravada, Mulasarvastivada, or Dharmaguptaka.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 8:02 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 7:23 AM
Title: Re: Some questions about Shingon
Content:


Queequeg said:
"Are there only non monastic clergy (priests) in Shingon or is there also a full vinaya system?"

That question is actually a little confusing because there are monastics, and have been, who in general look and live as Buddhist monks, though they may not have received vinaya precepts. The categories assumed by OP don't line up well with the situation, and your response didn't offer clarity on that. I didn't make that clear either.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a monastic ordination in Shingon, it is once again largely symbolic, as I understand.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44362396?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3A5a1125219e3b4e48778d2c75aa993109&seq=17#page_scan_tab_contents

This offers more clarity on the situation with the evolution of Shingon Risshu.

M

Queequeg said:
When you say symbolic, you're saying it doesn't follow the process you described above, and we're talking about a bhiksu ordination speficically?

Again, I'm afraid the way you comment on these matters fails to present an accurate picture of what actually goes on.

Malcolm wrote:
Wevare talking about Dharmaguptaka bhiksu ordination as it exists in Japan, and as it exists at present, only in Shingon.

My comments are entirely accurate, as you will discover when you read a bit more about the history of Vinaya in Japan, how and why it disappeared.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 7:13 AM
Title: Re: Some questions about Shingon
Content:


Queequeg said:
"Are there only non monastic clergy (priests) in Shingon or is there also a full vinaya system?"

That question is actually a little confusing because there are monastics, and have been, who in general look and live as Buddhist monks, though they may not have received vinaya precepts. The categories assumed by OP don't line up well with the situation, and your response didn't offer clarity on that. I didn't make that clear either.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a monastic ordination in Shingon, it is once again largely symbolic, as I understand.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44362396?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3A5a1125219e3b4e48778d2c75aa993109&seq=17#page_scan_tab_contents

This offers more clarity on the situation with the evolution of Shingon Risshu.

M

Queequeg said:
When you say symbolic, you're saying it doesn't follow the process you described above, and we're talking about a bhiksu ordination speficically?

Again, I'm afraid the way you comment on these matters fails to present an accurate picture of what actually goes on. There may be those on the forum who could offer a more definitive and informed explanation. As I understand, Shingon ordination even now is not just symbolic. Maybe if we are talking about a bhiksu ordination, non-Japanese might conclude Shingon ordination is merely symbolic. But becoming a Shingon ordinand is not just a facile formality. It requires one to enter into a student-master relationship with a teacher and to undergo training. I don't know the exact course on Koya-san, but it takes considerable time and effort. And that's the similar for other sects of Japanese Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
Shingon monks marry and drink. As I said their bhiksu ordination is purely a formality.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 7:12 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Queequeg said:
Senate Trial won't happen until after inauguration, if it can happen at all procedurally once Trump is out of office.

I'd like to see the benefits offered to former presidents revoked (pension, offices, etc.) and a ban from public office.

I wonder if they can block building a presidential library. I doubt it.

Malcolm wrote:
I think they should what they did to Nixon’s...turn it into an exhibition of corruption. But let them build it, if they raise the money...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 5:31 AM
Title: Re: Some questions about Shingon
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
BTW, the article you cited above refers to a fellow who self ordained because he wasn't happy that the ordinations that were continuing to be given were not serious enough for him.
It is not that they were not serious ordinations, they were pure shams that were not carried out according to the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya procedures. By this point, Ritsu had already died out, etc.

Queequeg said:
That's what Eizon et al. seemed to think, and the article quotes a colorful remark about people running around an ordination platform. I'm going to take that with a grain of salt.

Ordination is as serious as one takes it. All the ritual formalities could be observed, and every effort made to impress the seriousness of the vows. Buddhist history is still littered with monks behaving badly even in places where we can assume ordination is the real deal.

Malcolm wrote:
The fact is that the bhikṣu ordination lineage in Japan was broken. Generally, Vinaydharas in India, Tibet, China, etc., would not accept such a lineage as valid.

Queequeg said:
Pretty much, as the most important monastic establishment in close proximity to the capital, Kyoto, the absence of bhikṣu ordination there most certainly was the principle factor that lead to the decline of bhikṣu ordination in Japan during the Heian era.
That is a good point. But you're assuming a certain set of assumptions about the state of the monastic institutions and monastics in Japan in the Heian period. Are you depending on other sources for this position? Are you arguing that the formality of ordination doesn't qualify as the continuation of vinaya ordination?

Malcolm wrote:
An ordination rite depends on the rite being carried out correctly, by a sthavira who has been a monk for ten years, and a quorum of other senior monks. It is a complicated procedure, where the vows are gone through in blocks, and the aspirant accepting them. If it is not carried out correctly, it isn't valid.

In addition, in no school does one become a fully ordained bikṣu in one day, other than the merit ordinations most Thai men undergo. Generally, one is ordained a śrāmana, a novice, then later, a bhikṣu, after living as novice under the direction of preceptor for some years.

"...people running around an ordination platform." I think this not merely hyperbole.


Queequeg said:
I can't site to a particular article to dispute you - just that from what I know of Buddhist history in Japan, Buddhism was still a robust and vital force in Japan up until the Tokugawa period with many robust monastic communities throughout the country.

Malcolm wrote:
But not, unfortunately, the community of bhikṣus. Monastic /= bhikṣus.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 5:21 AM
Title: Re: Some questions about Shingon
Content:


Queequeg said:
"Are there only non monastic clergy (priests) in Shingon or is there also a full vinaya system?"

That question is actually a little confusing because there are monastics, and have been, who in general look and live as Buddhist monks, though they may not have received vinaya precepts. The categories assumed by OP don't line up well with the situation, and your response didn't offer clarity on that. I didn't make that clear either.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a monastic ordination in Shingon, it is once again largely symbolic, as I understand.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44362396?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3A5a1125219e3b4e48778d2c75aa993109&seq=17#page_scan_tab_contents

This offers more clarity on the situation with the evolution of Shingon Risshu.

M


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 5:03 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:


Queequeg said:
As I wrote above, this is a civil and criminal matter. This is not a state of war. Far from it.

Malcolm wrote:
In the minds of the bat-shit crazy right, it is.

Queequeg said:
Christ, dude. Do you always have to turn everything into this?

Malcolm wrote:
May I point out that you ought to observe the yak on your own nose before you point out the pimple on mine?

In any case, there are people in this country who have actually declared war against it.

Meanwhile as we speak, the House is voting to impeach Trump.

So far, five GOP people are not gutless wonders.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 5:01 AM
Title: Re: Some questions about Shingon
Content:
Queequeg said:
Then you're arguing with a straw man. I'm disputing your simplistic remark above that credits Saicho with the disappearance of the Vinaya precepts in Japan.

Malcolm wrote:
They lead to that, most certainly.

Queequeg said:
BTW, the article you cited above refers to a fellow who self ordained because he wasn't happy that the ordinations that were continuing to be given were not serious enough for him.

Malcolm wrote:
It is not that they were not serious ordinations, they were pure shams that were not carried out according to the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya procedures. By this point, Ritsu had already died out, etc.

Queequeg said:
Again, it was a while, and the result of a lot of steps by a lot of people that finally ended the vinaya ordinations in Japan. Sure, Saicho and Tendai had a part, but its misleading to say that Saicho was the reason it died out.

Malcolm wrote:
Pretty much, as the most important monastic establishment in close proximity to the capital, Kyoto, the absence of bhikṣu ordination there most certainly was the principle factor that lead to the decline of bhikṣu ordination in Japan during the Heian era.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 4:53 AM
Title: Re: Some questions about Shingon
Content:
Queequeg said:
And moreover, Saicho hardly had the influence to be able to bring anything like Vinaya ordination to a halt.

Caoimhghín said:
Well, as the founder of his own sect, he does have that power in his own house:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://dharma-rain.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Saicho-Writings-on-the-Bodhisattva-Precepts-Groner.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi2h5Tz25nuAhUiFlkFHVoPBU0QFjAHegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw0bunvkRLUU4IaoyKh1Ynax

Queequeg said:
Actually, he didn't. That was why he was petitioning the government for permission to set up an ordination platform, which was granted.

My point was, even as Tendai monks may not have been receiving the Vinaya precepts, they were still expected to observe very strict codes of conduct. Maybe I should have been clear but I was trying to point out that monks were still observing strict codes of conduct long after Saicho, both in Tendai and in Japan in general, disputing Malcolm's terse and misleading remark.

Malcolm wrote:
My remark was not at all misleading. It was indeed terse. I made no comment on the strictness, or otherwise, of Tendai monks. That was your trip. For example, Hindu monks have very strict discipline, but they are not bhikṣus.


Queequeg said:
Malcolm, as we all know, is just argumentative most of the time.

Malcolm wrote:
In fact, you raised the argument, not me.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 4:30 AM
Title: Re: Is the Mahayana or vajrayana canon closed?
Content:
Dgj said:
Can anyone offer information?

Are any of the canons closed? For example the Chinese Tripitiaka; is it a closed canon?

References would be greatly appreciated.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, in one sense. The canon of translated texts is closed.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 4:04 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:


Queequeg said:
As I wrote above, this is a civil and criminal matter. This is not a state of war. Far from it.

Malcolm wrote:
In the minds of the bat-shit crazy right, it is.

Queequeg said:
That's not to say the dangers are not real and not very serious. We should be treating this as a civil and criminal matter and not reacting like this is a mortal blow to our system. We need very serious, very sober people diligently and persistently working on this.

Malcolm wrote:
No, it is not a mortal blow. It is a serious blow.

Queequeg said:
We need to get to a point where we can give and take again. In a democracy that means we have to sit at a table and work through the problems even with people we find utterly distasteful. That's on the other side of dealing with this inflammation we are having now. If we can't do that, if that's not what we're aiming for, then the democracy IS over already and we're just walking dead.

Malcolm wrote:
This all began with Newt, Rush, and Roger (Ailes). It's reached the point where debate and counterargument are no longer effective. They've crossed the Rubicon.

This in no way can be laid at the door of the Democrats.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 3:56 AM
Title: Re: Some questions about Shingon
Content:
Queequeg said:
Saicho envisioned a very strict code of behavior on Mt. Hiei, and in practice, monks were expected to observe the good behavior expected of monks throughout the Buddhist world. In the end he came around to a view that that monks who left the mountain to serve functions in society ought to take the full Vinaya precepts.

Malcolm wrote:
Not according to all sources I have read on the issue.

Queequeg said:
I made a few statements there. Are you disputing everything or just some things or one thing?

Malcolm wrote:
I am disputing your contention that Saicho's abandonment of bhikṣu ordination did not lead to the inevitable decline of bhikṣu ordination in Japan.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 3:43 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:


Queequeg said:
There's a lot of breathless talk about what's happening now. Its serious and its critical, but its not a national disaster.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure, that's what they said in 1923. Ten years later it was 1933.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 3:35 AM
Title: Re: Some questions about Shingon
Content:



Queequeg said:
This discussion really doesn't belong in this thread, but, again, more nuanced than you make it out.


Malcolm wrote:
Sure it does, since the full bhikṣu ordination only survives in Shingon.

Queequeg said:
Saicho envisioned a very strict code of behavior on Mt. Hiei, and in practice, monks were expected to observe the good behavior expected of monks throughout the Buddhist world. In the end he came around to a view that that monks who left the mountain to serve functions in society ought to take the full Vinaya precepts.

Malcolm wrote:
Not according to all sources I have read on the issue.

Queequeg said:
How that played out in practice is another story - but in general, it wasn't as if all of a sudden monks had no code of conduct. And moreover, Saicho hardly had the influence to be able to bring anything like Vinaya ordination to a halt.

Malcolm wrote:
Not him personally, but the debate he started with Nara establishment would eventually have the effect.

Queequeg said:
As I was saying, the process was gradual one that played out over centuries.

Malcolm wrote:
I didn't say other wise, nevertheless you might find this of interest:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44362410?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3A279fd0778872e6037847bf8b7081d12d&socuuid=416dbf56-86d9-4b7e-bd29-b8d95ff6e6ae&socplat=email#page_scan_tab_contents

Even though Saicho's reformed ordination was not instituted in his lifetime, it was instituted within days of his death. This set the stage for the eventual decline of bhikṣu ordination and the Ritsu school, so that within 500 years, there were no bhikṣus left in Japan. Eison revived bhikṣu ordination by ordaining himself since there was no valid ordination lineage left in Shingon.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 2:48 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:


Brunelleschi said:
Since 2016 Trump increased his numbers with basically every minority, but lost a fairly big share of white men.

Malcolm wrote:
Nevertheless it was the minority vote in AZ, NV, and GA, that put Biden over the top.

Brunelleschi said:
Sure, perhaps I'm nitpicking. Interesting to hear from someone with that perspective. However, I'm thinking American democracy is more stable than that of Sri Lanka. Or not.

Malcolm wrote:
There was an unprecedented turnout among all demographics in the election, but especially among minorities, largely because of the work of Stacy Abrams, and other vote organizers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 2:14 AM
Title: Re: Some questions about Shingon
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Long ago, as a result of Saicho's Mahāyāna reformation.

Queequeg said:
That is terribly misleading. You are ignoring 1200 years of history.

Monks, including those in the Tendai order continued to observe much of the Vinaya, including celibacy, for centuries, up to the time that Oda Nobunaga burned the whole mountain down. The Bodhisattva Precepts did not supplant vinaya. Generally, they were in addition.

Malcolm wrote:
What are you talking about? Saicho cancelled bhikṣu ordination, calling for it to be replaced by a ten precept Mahāyāna ordination:
The Hossō school was in charge of the Bureau of Monks at that time, and so in a position to block Saichō's writings from reaching the court. In frustration, the normally reticent and humble Saichō became more extreme in his positions, until finally the noise reached the court in spite of the Bureau's attempts to cut him off. From an initial position advocating some minor changes in the ordination process, Saichō came to request that Mt. Hiei be declared a solely Mahāyāna temple exempt from having to use the Hīnayāna ordination precepts of the Ritsu.or Vinaya school. He proposed that, instead, they take their ordination from a Mahāyāna scripture, the Fan wang ching, or ‘Sūtra of Brahma's Net’. These precepts are referred to as the Bodhisattva precepts, and had always functioned as a complement to the traditional monastic precepts; they were never designed to replace them. Thus, the establishment found Saichō's position entirely inadmissible.
https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803100436835

Groner's book makes it pretty clear too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: Prayers for family
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I have two family members with Covid, one on oxygen at home and one in the hospital, prayers, wishes and aspirations much appreciated.

Malcolm wrote:
You can do Dorje Gotrab for your family members. Recite it over water, give it to them to drink.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 1:39 AM
Title: Re: Is This A Tribal Site Or A Philosophy Site?
Content:


NatureTalk said:
Personally, I find such an intellectual process interesting and useful, but also pretty much impossible to explore at any length on tribal sites, that is, almost all sites.  Lots of us enjoy poking holes in other people's ideas, but few wish to apply that process to all ideas, including their own.  And don't challenge me on this idea of mine or I'll get really mad!!  Kidding, kidding, a joke.

Malcolm wrote:
The purpose of studying Buddhist tenets is to eliminate proliferation, prapañca, and reification, samaropa, in line with the Buddha's observation that all phenomena arise dependently due to causes and conditions. The purpose of Buddhist practice is to apply that insight to oneself.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 1:33 AM
Title: Eisen on Free Speech and what the GOP gets wrong
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/01/13/trump-impeachment-incitement-free-speech-458884


Unknown said:
[S]ome Republicans have retreated to makeshift claims that Trump cannot be impeached because his speech at the rally was somehow protected by the First Amendment. As the late Justice Antonin Scalia might say, that is pure applesauce. It fails on every level.

To start, it turns the First Amendment upside down: the Free Speech Clause exists to protect private citizens from the government, not to protect government officials from accountability for their own abusive statements. The Supreme Court has held that government officials and public employees enjoy substantially reduced First Amendment protection for speech relating to the performance of their official duties. As the saying goes, with great power comes great responsibility.

More important, any “free speech” defense gets the Impeachment Clause wrong. The articles of impeachment against Presidents Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon, Bill Clinton, and Trump (from just a year ago) all arose, in part, from statements they had made. Yet in none of these cases did anyone assert that the First Amendment barred impeachment. That is unsurprising. Impeachment does not inflict punishment or inhibit speech; rather, it is forward looking, protecting the nation from a president whose continuance in office threatens the republic.

Accordingly, even if Trump’s statements would not count as “incitement” under cases limiting the government’s power to punish private speakers, the House is fully authorized to find that Trump’s actions constitute a high crime and misdemeanor. It really isn’t a close question. Trump’s statements in fact incited the mob to besiege the Capitol—and were part of a broader effort to subvert the democratic process. If anything, the article of impeachment against Trump vindicates core First Amendment interests. The right to participate in our political process means little if the president can use violence and threats to overturn election results.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 1:21 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Queequeg said:
I can't imagine someone who grew up at your dinner table could ever even befriend a Republican.

Malcolm wrote:
My late father was a Reagan Republican, I am so glad he passed in 2015 away before he could see all of this. It would have broken his heart. Since we live in Massachusetts, he mostly kept his mouth shut when talking about politics with his friends, many of them had no idea he was a conservative in the William Buckley mode.

Before all this, I would have tolerated a Republican in the family. Now, no chance, at least not one would supported Trump throughout all of the weeks following the 2020 election.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 1:14 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:


Dan74 said:
it is troubling because it is done out of ulterior motives and will lead to detrimental results.

Malcolm wrote:
Dumb. As if an attempted coup in the US is not enough reason.

Dan74 said:
Going after the rioters, who acted on what millions had thought, is not going to solve this problem.

Malcolm wrote:
It's a good start. It sends a clear signal to the far right that we won't put up with this bullshit.

Dan74 said:
Side-lining Trump is a good thing, muzzling him or making a martyr out of him, will only energize his base. They will feel vindicated, as everything they had suspected of the elites comes to pass.

Malcolm wrote:
The man's mouth is a serious danger to Democracy.  Juliette Kayyem is right:
During his political career, Trump has given comfort to and conferred logistical coherence upon a coalition that will not die without him—but also will not thrive. The United States is a divided nation, but only a tiny fraction of Trump’s more than 74 million voters showed up in Washington, D.C., eager to fight. The way to unite this country is to isolate acts of violence—and a leader who incites it—from legitimate expression. Trump was a north star for a certain kind of radical. Americans will be safer the more that star loses its shine.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/stop-domestic-terrorism-shut-down-its-leader/617640/

Since you are basically a fifth columnist, I recommend that everyone here who is an American ignore you and shun you.

Dan74 said:
Will the unholy alliance of the various elements of the establishment

Malcolm wrote:
The establishment is not the problem here. The US Military leadership, the intelligence services like the CIA, law enforcement like the FBI, the Judicial branch, etc. have all shown remarkable and commendable resistance to Trump. The problem is people like Steve Bannon, Steven Miller, etc. who wish to dismantle democratic institutions, and opportunistic grifters like Jared Kushner, Pompeo, and so on. From the beginning, this group of people has sought to undermine the establishment, that is, the system of checks and balances through which we exercise our rights and privileges as citizens of the United States. This alliance is not unholy, this alliance is the basis of our Democracy. I am not going to sit here and let a fifth columnist like you go uncalled out for what you are clearly doing, acting as a fifth column voice.

Dan74 said:
In years to come, they will become a force to be reckoned with, much more so than the clowns we saw on the cameras in the Capitol.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, we will deal with them alright. Many of those clowns, as you call them, are looking at 20 years of hard time for their "clownery." What you seem to not understand is that this was a coordinated plot to take down the US Government and install Trump as a dictator. He is done, and I hope sensible Americans here are done with you too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 12:47 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
Dan74 said:
In a way, but are you not troubled by this alliance? FB, Twitter, the political establishment, etc are all on the same side. Add the former Secretaries of Defence and lefties retweeting Dubya and Cheney...

KathyLauren said:
Why is is troubling to you that those opposed to Trump would form an alliance?

Malcolm wrote:
Don't any attention to Dan, he is not a stakeholder in this discussion. He is just a dude from Switzerland with little to no common sense, who likes to dabble in right wing politics while protesting he is actually a "liberal."

KathyLauren said:
Do you find it troubling that those opposed to sedition are a majority?  I take it that you would rather have the opposition fragmented, so that they are easier to control.  But democracy doesn't work that way.  Alliances are natural when people and groups share a common interest.  Getting rid of a traitor is certainly a worthwhile common interest.

Malcolm wrote:
Dan is clutching his pearls at the idea 49 percent of the country is being disenfranchised. Actually, a recent poll show that 55% of Americans want Trump removed. Mitch has already signaled his approval of impeachment.

And as more details come out, more of the USA will turn against the GOP, that is those who were not already opposed to it. What people like Dan don't get is that the GOP is hopelessly destroyed itself, just as Lindsey Graham predicted.

What details? Details like Ayanna Pressley's panic button that was inexplicably removed from her office shows that there was a real plot afoot to harm members of congress, aided from the White House and by far-right cops in the Capitol Police:
As people rushed out of other buildings on the Capitol grounds, staffers in Pressley’s office barricaded the entrance with furniture and water jugs that had piled up during the pandemic. Groh pulled out gas masks and looked for the special panic buttons in the office.

“Every panic button in my office had been torn out — the whole unit,” she said, though they could come up with no rationale as to why. She had used them before and hadn’t switched offices since then. As they were escorted to several different secure locations, Groh and Pressley and her husband tried to remain calm and vigilant — not only of rioters but of officers they did not know or trust, she said.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/01/13/nation/it-was-like-looking-evil-capitol-attack-through-eyes-massachusetts-delegation/


The cop who killed himself just happened to be the son of one of Paul Manafort's partners. And Dan wants us to be nice to people who supported a coup. Sure Dan. GFY.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 14th, 2021 at 12:05 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
There are ways to limit harmful speech without violating anyone’s rights. Shunning people to begin with. Encouraging news organizations to not give a platform to demagogues, etc. Encouraging cable companies to de platform Fox, etc. encouraging businesses to pull ads from Tucker, Hannity, etc.

Queequeg said:
That's a big ask. There is so much money at stake that I have a hard time believing that the private sector can be relied on to lead like that. But maybe. Maybe Jefferson's idea that even an ignorant and dangerous mob is enough to keep the powerful stakeholders on the up and up. Maybe? We will see soon enough.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, it’s as basic as, would you object to your kid marrying a Republican? I sure as hell would.

There is a lot of money at stake, but we’ve seen that systematic targeting of businesses can eat into their profits, so eventually, they change their behavior. Fur example, boycotting Trump allies businesses, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 11:52 PM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In fact,  no one has been deprived of their right of free speech. And private venues do not have tolerate any speech they don’t like at all.

Queequeg said:
I'm not commenting on the actions of FB, Twitter, AWS, etc. I'm asking a bigger question that may implicate those forums, but that's not what I'm presently concerned about. As far as that's concerned, I agree with you.

Malcolm wrote:
There are ways to limit harmful speech without violating anyone’s rights. Shunning people to begin with. Encouraging news organizations to not give a platform to demagogues, etc. Encouraging cable companies to de platform Fox, etc. encouraging businesses to pull ads from Tucker, Hannity, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 11:28 PM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
In fact,  no one has been deprived of their right of free speech. And private venues do not have tolerate any speech they don’t like at all.


Queequeg said:
One question that has been rattling around in my head is this:

What do we do about the misinformation that underlies this whole thing?

Being honest - if the election actually was rigged, mass resistance and even overthrow of the illegitimate government would be expected, and from an American Mythology perspective, the right thing to do. The rationale for revolution is written into our Declaration of Independence. Founders of the United States rallied in protest of "Taxation without Representation."

But the facts bear out that the allegations of a fraudulent election are utterly false.

What we have is a factual information dissemination failure.

There's a couple components to this as I can figure -

1. The demagogues who are spreading claims of massive fraud.
2. The failure of a large segment of people to be able to process information and discern fact from lies.

Limiting the speech of the demagogues is problematic because free speech is one of the values we define ourselves by. I'll leave that question open to debate about what we can do, but I'm personally against restricting speech as a matter of principle. There is a part of me that understands cutting off the speech of irresponsible people with large megaphones is an option, but in my view, that's a last resort and if we have to do that, then the game is long over.

That leaves the people. I don't know what to do about that. Fundamentally, I'm afraid most people lack the basic intelligence to process the deluge of information. I know that I am unable to do so and am experimenting with limiting consumption of information to give my long form thought processes a chance to work again. I don't know if that's a solution for others, I don't know if that's a solution for myself.

I put that question to the floor with this quote from Thomas Jefferson that reading now is disconcerting.
Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it’s motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13 states independant 11 years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 10:27 PM
Title: Re: How To Evaluate A Teacher?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The worst way to evaluate a teacher is to be concerned with how much they will benefit oneself. The best criteria is to observe how much they benefit others.

NatureTalk said:
As a thought experiment, let's imagine we're interested in the kinds of psychological topics which Buddhism addresses and so we want to find a teacher who can help us advance our understanding.   We're open minded at this early point in our investigation so maybe the teacher we choose will be Buddhist, or maybe someone from some other tradition, we're not sure yet.   How should we evaluate a teacher?  How to choose one over another?

I know very little about Buddhism so I will leave other members to address this question within that realm.  I know a bit more about what might generally be called "new age gurus" so I'll address that instead.

I've noticed that such teachers are typically surrounded by adoring students.   The teacher is perhaps sitting on a pillow in the spotlight on stage, the center of attention and respect etc.  Often the teacher is being somehow financially supported by the students, and thus doesn't need to get the kind of mundane job you and I might have.

When I see this very common setup I can't help but sometimes think to myself, "Geez, even I could be enlightened within that situation".  I really don't feel sarcastic or cynical so much as I would be attracted to a different kind of teacher.  Like for instance...

Let's say I'm working double shifts at a burger joint shoveling fries over the counter all day.  It's greasy, it's loud, everyone's impatient, the boss is kinda demanding, the pay sucks.  I'm getting worn out, grouchy and annoyed.  And then I look over at my co-worker and....

They're having a good time.  There's a relaxed smile on their face, they're humming some nice little tune, and seem entirely content with whatever anyone asks them to do.  And their contentment isn't just today, it's not just this moment or that moment, but a consistent pattern every time they show up to work, for the whole shift.  Nobody adores them, nobody supports them, they live in a dumpy little one bedroom apartment and ride a bike to work.  And that's cool with them, no problem.

Ok, so this is perhaps a ridiculously demanding criteria for a teacher.  Or maybe not.  Don't we want some teacher who can help us be at peace with the real world, and not just ideal situations?  Wouldn't the best evidence that a teacher can teach us how to be at peace in the real world be that the teacher themselves can do it?

What say you?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 10:03 PM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Queequeg said:
The knuckleheads who stormed the Capitol should be processed through the criminal justice system with the banal humorlessness of a career prosecutor. The bozos need the message that Qanon is not some grownup version of Pokemon that's just shits and giggles.

The capitol police need to be investigated to find out why they treated this so differently than the BLM protests.

The profiles of the people getting arrested are pathetic.

We don't need a bunch of new policies or laws. Maybe some updates to existing laws to criminalize the behavior of these Trumpists and competent, workmanlike police investigations and prosecutions.

Last thing we need to do is turn this into some sensational cause.

PeterC said:
100% agree.  There are a hundred things they can be charged with.  You could get every one who invaded the capital with a felony murder charge for the policeman that they beat to death.

They do, however, need to start policing these people the same way they police other terrorist groups.  FBI infiltration, seizure of funds, no fly lists, etc.  The state has a lot of ways to apply pressure.  They will need to keep up the pressure for decades.  A lot of these people we have lost and won’t get back.

Malcolm wrote:
If they even policed them the way they police Black people, that would be sufficient. I am quite sure no Rastafarian in jail is getting organic food.

Thus is all a symptom of white privilege. And yes, apply terrorism laws across the board.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 10:00 PM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:



Dan74 said:
In a way, but are you not troubled by this alliance? FB, Twitter, the political establishment, etc are all on the same side. Add the former Secretaries of Defence and lefties retweeting Dubya and Cheney...

Then you have the millions of Trumpsters feeling disenfranchised, vilified and silenced.. I would not be ready to celebrate in such a situation..

There are no winners, when 49% of your compatriots are the losers.

Malcolm wrote:
You go girl, keep rooting for fascists.

Dan74 said:
I'm not engaging with you anymore, Malcolm. No point. But feel free to continue hurling your insults if it makes you feel better.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s perfectly fine, Dan, you say nothing of value. Buts it’s not surprising that you live in a country that acted as bankers for Nazis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 9:21 PM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
Ah, on an unsurprising note some GOP opportunists already trying to use the situation to get some new anti-protest legislation going:

https://theintercept.com/2021/01/12/capitol-riot-anti-protest-blm-laws/

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, sure, like that will ever get past a challenge in SCOTUS.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 9:18 PM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
tobes said:
Thoughts on the proposition: what happened last week was the best possible outcome?

If it stays all virtual/digital and abstract, then it lives on and festers.

But because they expressed a tiny bit of hard power, we all get to see that they actually have virtually none; this was the moment where they properly met with causation, after 4 years in pure idealism/fantasy......and the effects which follow from their causes will splinter them away.

Dan74 said:
In a way, but are you not troubled by this alliance? FB, Twitter, the political establishment, etc are all on the same side. Add the former Secretaries of Defence and lefties retweeting Dubya and Cheney...

Then you have the millions of Trumpsters feeling disenfranchised, vilified and silenced.. I would not be ready to celebrate in such a situation..

There are no winners, when 49% of your compatriots are the losers.

Malcolm wrote:
You go girl, keep rooting for fascists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 10:53 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
PeterC said:
While reading the news on this I stumbled across a few articles on the question of whether Chuck Norris was one of the putschists.  This is, of course, nonsense.  As we all know from his oeuvre, if Norris had been there, he would have blown up the white house, killed both the senate and the MAGA rioters, and defeated Pence in hand-to-hand combat before planting the flag of a newly-independent Republic of Texas in the smoking pile of rubble.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, only to be supplanted by Kevin Sorbo...



Irony is utterly lost on these people...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 10:40 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:


PeterC said:
Mitch knows well that if the rioters had got a little further into the congress before he was taken out, he would have been...taken out.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, that was really my point.

As for our generals, they are, for the most part, educated men who take their oaths seriously...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 10:16 AM
Title: Re: Buddhāvataṃsaka Reflections
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
My random musings. Very sophomoric. You (Malcolm) needn't feel pressured to respond. Has anyone else read or tried to read the Flower Garland?

Malcolm wrote:
Clearly’s translation is basically a CF. But, if one knows a primary language it is useful as a framework.

The Avatamsaka is about you,it’s about your own state, not something far away...but then all Buddhist sutras, including those “inferior” words of the Buddha in the shravaka canon are as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 10:07 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Mitch approves of the impeachment.

windoverwater said:
Yup. Game changer.

PeterC said:
We'll see.  He may not obstruct an emergency session only to tell his troops to vote the articles down. His wife was the first member of Trump's cabinet to resign, though I think she did that primarily to avoid being asked to sign a 25th amendment letter.  Her resignation letter, unlike Betsy De Vos', had no condemnation of Trump at all, only the last sentence that read "...after the events at the US Capital, I will resign...effective Monday...to provide a short period of transition".

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/533311-read-resignation-letter-from-transportation-secretary-chao-to-trump

Malcolm wrote:
In my opinion, Mitch took this personally, and Mitch is freaked out. Mitch wants the Trumps out of politics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 10:01 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
That’s not the case even for Amazon. AWS is merely one of thousands of providers

Johnny Dangerous said:
AWS owns a significant chunk of the webs infrastructure. It's notable enough that every anti-monopoly group sees it as a huge issue. It's like the size of its greatest fifteen rivals or something, it's huge. Definitely not just one random company among others.

Malcolm wrote:
Antitrust issues are adjudicated in courts.


Johnny Dangerous said:
That absolutely depends on how one curates ones feed. But, on the other hand, I have a certificate in Web Application Programming and used to work in the server farm of a major ISP.
I worked in tech for years too, and was a reasonably early adopter of internet use generally in the early and mid 90s. I probably remember enough about using a Unix shell to still get most of stuff done today with one. My opinions come from experience and a little knowledge, not ignorance of how they work.

Malcolm wrote:
I’ll accept this as agreement.


Johnny Dangerous said:
Users have to protect themselves, just as voters have to educate themselves. There is no mommy solution to this other than educating kids at home how to use the net.
Ideally ompanies who essentially  own the public square should prioritize democratic values, or be compelled to do so.

Malcolm wrote:
Again, this is an issue for the courts and/or legislation, which will then be adjudicated by the courts.



Johnny Dangerous said:
You know quite well that “user rights” don’t exist. Privileges are not rights. For example, as soon as the mods here decide I am more of a pain in the ass than I am now, you can arbitrarily decide to ban me for no cause at all, suspending my privileges to post here for any reason at all, including, but not limited to, the fact that the mods here just don’t f#@king like me.
Again, a small forum is no comparison to a cluster of behemoth companies that are now the defacto public square.

Malcolm wrote:
Again, an issue for the courts,



Johnny Dangerous said:
BLM better make sure they don’t support an insurrectionary movement, no?  But on the other hand they have never engaged in rhetoric of violence against persons.

Malcolm wrote:
No, but groups like the NFAC are a new level of escalation, and one can easily see a situation where due to the actions of a group like this, BLM in general would face some kind of deplatforming.
Courts again.

Johnny Dangerous said:
So, intolerance of intolerance is mainly a problem in undemocratic societies, but not in democratic ones? Question, have you read An Open Society and it’s Enemies? It should not go unmentioned, Soros’ money is one of the mainstays of Buddhist translation projects.
I've read it, but it's been years. I recall not being blown away. Then again, I'm not sure I'm classifiable as  a liberal, so to me it is not a significant work in the way it would be to someone who sees liberal democracy as a pinnacle of human achievement...rather than a very flawed version of "least worst choice at the present".

Malcolm wrote:
Liberal democracy is, so far, a better gvt. than all the other ones we’ve tried, no?



Johnny Dangerous said:
That is true of these people in this particular time. It is also true that in less democratic countries maneuvers such as these (by some of the same companies) are, and have been used to suppress the free speech of democracy activists, etc. E.G. Google in China. It's all well and good to say "no problem" in this one instance with Parler etc., but the larger problem remains.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, it’s pretty hard to pass laws on international corporations about how they do business in other countries. Right now, China is rather tangential for me.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 8:52 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Well, you have monopolistic control over speech here. Some people have expressed concern about this. I was admin for E-Sangha, people complained about me there, and they still do.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I don't think there's any real comparison. For there to be a comparison Dharmawheel would have to have monopolistic control over all Buddhist dialogue on the internet, even the ability to shut down other Buddhist sites.. it has nothing like that.

Malcolm wrote:
That’s not the case even for Amazon. AWS is merely one of thousands of providers.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Well, they put into place algorithms that pushed content based on preferences. The net result of that was the creation of toxic echo chambers.

But on the other hand, it also created the Pussy Hat March. My feed is not filled with toxic shit because I curate it. The problem is not companies, the problem is education.
IDK, Facebook in particular has been algorithmically pushing people towards the lowest common denominator of dialogue for a while, they make money off of controversy, ruining people's thinking, all while misusing their data from my perspective. I admit I'm biased for sure, I think social media is mostly poisonous. Even "non toxic" dialogue on FB degrades into nonsense because the platform is designed to infantilize people and to act like a kind of slot machine for their interests, not to promote them to use their brains or actually connect with others.



Malcolm wrote:
That absolutely depends on how one curates ones feed. But, on the other hand, I have a certificate in Web Application Programming and used to work in the server farm of a major ISP.


Johnny Dangerous said:
In my opinion free speech is safe enough already. What has emerged here is a lack of safe guards (under the guise of free speech) against dangerous and harmful speech which leads to violent insurrections.
I can agree there, generally.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, at least we agree on something for a change.

Johnny Dangerous said:
However, the monopolistic control of information these companies has has already affected free speech negatively, and it will only get worse as they get bigger, while trying to simultaneously appease shareholders and the winds of politics...with little attention paid to protecting actual users, because their business models all rely on user exploitation, to one degree or another.

Malcolm wrote:
Users have to protect themselves, just as voters have to educate themselves. There is no mommy solution to this other than educating kids at home how to use the net.

Johnny Dangerous said:
If not exploitation, their business at the very least involves putting users rights at the lowest level of priority. This is a serious issue, and I think it will only become a bigger one in the future.



Malcolm wrote:
You know quite well that “user rights” don’t exist. Privileges are not rights. For example, as soon as the mods here decide I am more of a pain in the ass than I am now, you can arbitrarily decide to ban me for no cause at all, suspending my privileges to post here for any reason at all, including, but not limited to, the fact that the mods here just don’t f#@king like me.


Johnny Dangerous said:
I'm personally glad Parler is banned, but what happens in a forseeable future where a breakaway arm of BLM, Antifa organizes some violence and gets deplatformed the same way. That's the bad thing about setting this kind of precedent..while I totally get why it needed to happen..there are issues.

Malcolm wrote:
BLM better make sure they don’t support an insurrectionary movement, no?  But on the other hand they have never engaged in rhetoric of violence against persons.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Which is one critique of the Popper quote from earlier. One of the possible ways Fascism operates is by getting liberal democracy to eat itself and become more authoritarian, due to it being seen as necessary to be "intolerant of intolerance". Fascists misappropriate free speech, and eventually get liberal democracy to restrict itself..this allows them a greater opening to present their "alternative" to it.

Malcolm wrote:
Arguably, this is a specious objection. This is not a problem in Germany, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc. These countries do not even have a first amendment, but I do not see their democracies being thereby impacted. They also ban intolerant speech.

Johnny Dangerous said:
It's not a black and white thing, there are times where most definitely people have to be intolerant of intolerance, but it can also be a slippery slope to a less democratic society overall.

Malcolm wrote:
So, intolerance of intolerance is mainly a problem in undemocratic societies, but not in democratic ones? Question, have you read An Open Society and it’s Enemies? It should not go unmentioned, Soros’ money is one of the mainstays of Buddhist translation projects.



Johnny Dangerous said:
The the bat-shit crazy right has been reduced to putting up fliers. Good. Screw them. If leftists go down the same road as the bat-shit crazy right, screw them too, since many on the bat-shit crazy left are just as totalitarian as those on the right, like the Trots, and so on.
The problem is that historically when speech is restricted, it is not the people with some power that need to worry.

Malcolm wrote:
Extremists should be shut down when they start resorting to bombs and guns. As long as they are just talking, no problem, they should be allowed to say whatever crazy shit they want. We’ve passed that point. They are heading into McVeigh territory now.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 8:23 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Mitch approves of the impeachment.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 6:07 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This year America had fascism on the ballot and nonwhite people mercifully said no. The fascists, however, are now saying f#@k ballots. And enough of the population is like f#@k yeah!
https://indica.medium.com/i-lived-through-a-coup-america-is-having-one-now-437934b1dac3

Brunelleschi said:
Since 2016 Trump increased his numbers with basically every minority, but lost a fairly big share of white men.

Malcolm wrote:
Nevertheless it was the minority vote in AZ, NV, and GA, that put Biden over the top.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 5:31 AM
Title: Re: Respectful treatment of images/texts - 8 auspicious symbols included?
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Just recycle it. If it helps, imagine it is all going into soft toilet paper to ease the hemorrhoids of the constipated.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 4:58 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Unknown said:
This year America had fascism on the ballot and nonwhite people mercifully said no. The fascists, however, are now saying f#@k ballots. And enough of the population is like f#@k yeah!

Malcolm wrote:
https://indica.medium.com/i-lived-through-a-coup-america-is-having-one-now-437934b1dac3


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 4:21 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I have to actually read a full version of one of the larger Wisdom sutras in full one day. After the Flower Garland...

Malcolm wrote:
I would revise that order, considering that more commentaries were written in India on the 8000 and 25000 line sutras than any other single text.

Caoimhghín said:
There's something very brilliant in the Flower Garland. There is a reason why even the Lotus schools had to admit it a special place of honour. I do think, just as literature alone and not as Dharma, it might be one of the summits of acheivement, the construction of this massive vaipulya. But it is so long that I'm likely to finish several other sūtras while making my way through it.

Malcolm wrote:
Most people imagine this to be the case, because it had a lot of glowing praise vis a vie Hua Yen, etc. Of course it is a very interesting text, and having read it in its entirety, it is not very philosophical, though it has its moments, and in fact is principally practice oriented, even defining itself as the definitive sūtra for Buddhist practice.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 4:19 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
At one time “the problem right now” was Al Quaeda, etc. and what we got was the patriot act and all kinds of awful stuff. Some long term thinking about precedent is needed in a democracy. Our history is replete with all kinds of awful stuff done in response to a particular problem in time, with a shortsighted view of the future implications...even in the relatively near future.



Malcolm wrote:
We are not dealing with a free speech issue, in fact. No one's right to speak about whatever insane crap they want to spew has been limited at all.

We still have to deal with White ISIS.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 3:40 AM
Title: Re: ChNN lung question (Losar Mandarava retreat Mar 12 2017)
Content:
climb-up said:
Hey everyone,

I was checking something else on the list of lung I wrote down from the March 2017 Mandarava retreat, and I noticed that the last thing on my list, after black manjushri and the Simhamukha of Ayu Khandro was “mami melong?” (The question mark was in my notes, I clearly wasn’t sure what it was and/or how to spell it).

I have no idea what that might be.
Does anyone know?

Malcolm wrote:
Marme Monlam. aspiration of the butter lamp.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 3:29 AM
Title: Re: “Enlightened intent” in the Choying Dzod
Content:
Nick r said:
I have been pondering the meaning of “enlightened intent” in Lonchenpa’s Choying Dzod by Padma Publishing. I am curious how others personally define that phrase and also how it applies to their daily life.
Thank you

Malcolm wrote:
The term is dgongs pa, and the translation is not apt——it actually refers not to an intent per se, but a buddha's continuous state of samadhi, 24/7/365. It part of a progression that begins with mental focus (sems zin), concentration (dhyāna, bsam gtan), and samādhi (ting nge 'dzin). Translators try to deal with this usage in a variety of ways, none of which really capture the meaning, including my equivalent, "transcendent state" (from samati = dgongs pa).

The term dgongs pa can mean intention, but in regular Tibetan, it is commonly just an honorific for mind/thought (sems).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 3:23 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I have to actually read a full version of one of the larger Wisdom sutras in full one day. After the Flower Garland...

Malcolm wrote:
I would revise that order, considering that more commentaries were written in India on the 8000 and 25000 line sutras than any other single text. There are no Indian commentaries on the Avatamska, etc., other than the Dasabhumika chapter, attributed to Nāgārjuna.

But the 10,000 line sūtra was published on 84000, so there is that.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 3:15 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
I was going to mention Ven Candrakīrti, oddly enough. He has twenty emptinesses. Whether or not the enumeration is a proliferation en toto is whether or not it is teaching something of purport, which is all we can say of any other enumerations of the teaching.

Malcolm wrote:
They are in the PP Sūtras. He just relists them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 3:11 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I truly don’t know what the correct decision is. I just know I find the monopolistic control over speech concerning.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, you have monopolistic control over speech here. Some people have expressed concern about this. I was admin for E-Sangha, people complained about me there, and they still do.

Johnny Dangerous said:
This is especially true because these companies basically created the communities they are now banning via algorithm.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, they put into place algorithms that pushed content based on preferences. The net result of that was the creation of toxic echo chambers.

But on the other hand, it also created the Pussy Hat March. My feed is not filled with toxic shit because I curate it. The problem is not companies, the problem is education.

Johnny Dangerous said:
So in my opinion, people are right to demand both more safeguards to free speech -and- less incitement to extremism via algorithm from these companies.

Malcolm wrote:
In my opinion free speech is safe enough already. What has emerged here is a lack of safe guards (under the guise of free speech) against dangerous and harmful speech which leads to violent insurrections.

The the bat-shit crazy right has been reduced to putting up fliers. Good. Screw them. If leftists go down the same road as the bat-shit crazy right, screw them too, since many on the bat-shit crazy left are just as totalitarian as those on the right, like the Trots, and so on.

But right now our problem is White ISIS.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 3:03 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
PeterC said:
If they're delivered to the next senate then he's already out of office, which is the only sanction this process offers.

Malcolm wrote:
They will not delivered to the Republican controlled senate. Not this time around. Precedent for this is 1874 impeachment of the war secretary, who was convicted following his resignation after he was impeached. If the new senate manages to convict, he will be barred from holding any public office loses all benefits, pension, health care, etc.

Mantrik said:
Apparently that may not be the case. This was described by CNN as having come from one opinion which was shared widely, but on the same CNN piece some legal opinions were shared and it was concluded that he would lose none of those through impeachment, except possibly his personal protection. His ability to run for office would depend on a secondary prosecution following impeachment, a prosecution method which does only require a simple majority, so still possible........... eventually.

Malcolm wrote:
It's a senate vote following conviction.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 3:00 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
IMO It depends on how serious and widespread the misapprehension of the two truths as one being a false nothing and the other being either 1) a true nothing or 2) a bright luminous non-nothing and/or all-dharma soup. If these misconceptions were really so widespread, the necessity of the different middles posited by the Sanlun, Tiantai, and Huayan might be somewhat contextualized as to how they arose, even if it seems some of these doctrines just go back to "all-dharma existence soup." I am speaking particularly of pop Buddhology notions of Huayan teachings on radical interconnectedness specifically when I say "all-dharma soup."

If not and they weren't widespread, well then everything is just messier, which could well be the case.

Malcolm wrote:
Or, one can just read Candrakīrti, who really does nail Buddhapalita's intent, and that of Nāgārjuna. Otherwise, studying post-classical treatments of Madhyamaka outside of India (including in Tibet) is basically a forensic exercise in sectarian polemics.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 2:57 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
EFF On issues surrounding content moderation and tech monopoly power as regards speech:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/01/beyond-platforms-private-censorship-parler-and-stack

Worth a read if you are interested in this issue.
The core problem remains: regardless of whether we agree with an individual decision, these decisions overall have not and will not be made democratically and in line with the requirements of transparency and due process, and instead are made by a handful of individuals, in a handful of companies, most distanced and least visible to the most Internet users.

Malcolm wrote:
The argument here hinges on two things: whether the internet should be nationalized, and I can see both pro and con sides to this; and second, the fact is that these decisions will inevitably end up in the hands of a small group, like the FCC, anyway.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 2:49 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
EFF On issues surrounding content moderation and tech monopoly power as regards speech:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/01/beyond-platforms-private-censorship-parler-and-stack

Worth a read if you are interested in this issue.
Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.

Malcolm wrote:
Open Society and its Enemies, Karl Popper.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 at 12:58 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
So sometime between Ven Jizang and medieval Japanese Madhyamaka, there come to be two truths and four middles!

Malcolm wrote:
You just got to love the propensity of the human mind to engage in proliferation...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 7:50 PM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
PeterC said:
I'm sure the vote will pass the house, since it has been tabled.  At that point he will have been impeached, again, the first time ever a president has been impeached twice in his term of office.  What happens to the articles of impeachment after that, I don't know. If they're delivered to the current senate then it fails. If they're delivered to the next senate then he's already out of office, which is the only sanction this process offers.

DNS said:
Even in the next Senate, it would likely fail. It only needs simple majority of 50% plus one in the House, but two-thirds super majority in the Senate. That would require 67 out of 100 Senators voting for Impeachment to convict; therefore, not likely with the 50-50 split in the new Senate.

I imagine some Republican Senators might vote to convict, but probably not 17.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 7:48 PM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 10:42 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Meanwhile...


Shotenzenjin said:
This guy has two tats that that are commonly used by fascist and white nationalist. You can't really see it in this photo but that's a valknot three interlocking triangles  tattoo and he has a Odin's hammer tat below it

Malcolm wrote:
Yes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 10:24 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
PeterC said:
If they're delivered to the next senate then he's already out of office, which is the only sanction this process offers.

Malcolm wrote:
They will not delivered to the Republican controlled senate. Not this time around. Precedent for this is 1874 impeachment of the war secretary, who was convicted following his resignation after he was impeached. If the new senate manages to convict, he will be barred from holding any public office loses all benefits, pension, health care, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 10:20 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 10:07 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Meanwhile...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 10:04 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
PeterC said:
However I think the bigger goal here should be a federal conviction of the ex-president and co-conspirators for treason at some point after he leaves office, and a failed impeachment now makes that less rather than more likely.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and that will happen too.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 10:03 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
PeterC said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-protests-washington-guard-military/2021/01/07/c5299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

This is why we need the inquiry first.

Malcolm wrote:
I respect your opinion, but he has to be impeached while in office. It may not be the the optimal strategy, but he must be impeached. The senate hearing won’t happen for some three months. During that time, inquiries and so on can happen. No facts are in dispute.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 9:50 AM
Title: Re: Second impeachment
Content:
PeterC said:
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/articles-impeachment-trump-xml/b0422e292cebafda/full.pdf

Honestly I think this is a bad idea.  The story will be - vindictive democrats pursue tired impeachment nonsense again when the poor man only has days left in office.  What they should have done is demanded a public inquiry at the start of the next congressional session.  If/when the republicans try to block that, first they will fail, because they no longer control the senate, second they will look like the obstructionists they are.  Over the next few weeks some unpleasant facts will come to light over who encouraged and orchestrated this, and that will be a much better basis for action against trump and others.

Malcolm wrote:
We have to do it. He sent a mob to hang his own VP.  The facts won’t change. But these representatives and senators were the targets of terrorists sent by Trump himself to do them injury. Further inquiries, and so on will be made. Further actions will be taken.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 8:56 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Even then, it's the ayatanas of buddhatva and not the other nine destinies. It's an odd little statement.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, like formless ayatanas. Usage wise, it must mean entryway, rather than sense entry.

Caoimhghín said:
But the formless ayatanas include sense entrances, namely the mind? BTW, the Chinese is "entrance" in the sense of ayatana. I forgot to confirm that.

Malcolm wrote:
There is a Mano ayatana, yes, but ayatana can mean existence, as in the four formless realms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 8:43 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


Queequeg said:
I answered that. Buddhanature is the basis of mutuality between all beings.

Malcolm wrote:
In what sutra is this stated?

tkp67 said:
does the concept violate the dharma seals?

Malcolm wrote:
It’s just a strange phrase to use to describe tathgatagarbha.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 8:41 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Even then, it's the ayatanas of buddhatva and not the other nine destinies. It's an odd little statement.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, like formless ayatanas. Usage wise, it must mean entryway, rather than sense entry.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 8:23 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
Yes, which is why it is odd to say, in the context of the "system" of how Tiantai/Tendai is taught today, that the Buddha lacks the sense entrances etc. "of the other nine destinies." You can't have one without the others, in theory.

Malcolm wrote:
Clearly sense entrance is a translation through Chinese of ayatana, which here can’t possibly mean sense gate, but is more akin to the four formless ayatanas.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 8:20 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


Queequeg said:
I answered that. Buddhanature is the basis of mutuality between all beings.

Malcolm wrote:
In what sutra is this stated?

Queequeg said:
Do we need to debate whether all sentient beings have buddhanature?

Malcolm wrote:
No, but what does this word “mutuality” have to do with it? Do you mean that Buddhanature is a potential that all beings have in common?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 7:18 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


Queequeg said:
I answered that. Buddhanature is the basis of mutuality between all beings.

Malcolm wrote:
In what sutra is this stated?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 5:25 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Police State
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Speaking of police state, is anyone here cheering for Klaus Schwab’s “Great Reset”?

Possible mandatory vaxxing, and who knows what other kinds of authoritarian tyranny?

Malcolm wrote:
Vaccination is already mandatory and has been for decades, that is, if you want your kids to go to school.

Sādhaka said:
State vaccination laws include vaccination requirements for children in public and private schools and daycare settings, college/university students, and healthcare workers and patients in certain facilities.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinationlaws.html

The idea that this is "authoritarian" is ludicrous.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 5:00 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Poice State
Content:
taleen said:
I also have no sympathy for fascists who get punched. Zero.
And this is the guy that all these western buddhists listen to ?

Could you imagine if someone on this board dared to say they have no sympathy for violent criminals or drug dealers who get shot by the police ?

Malcolm wrote:
Who said I had any sympathy for violent criminals or drug dealers who get shot by the police? Karma is a bitch.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 4:59 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Poice State
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
I'm all for voting, but it only does so much. I have voted in every election I have been eligible for since age 18. Voting and electoral politics are not exclusive to other forms of activism, anyway.

Malcolm wrote:
I never said they were, but for lasting change, voting is the only way to ensure lasting change. You have to get the people you want into office, and then pressure them to represent your interests. Hence, GOP voter suppression tactics, which have done more damage to progressive causes than anything else.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 4:10 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Poice State
Content:



Malcolm wrote:
I still think your rhetoric of the state being some alien organism is mistaken.

Johnny Dangerous said:
So you know of a time in American history where the enforcement arm of the state was solidly on the side of democracy? The only time I can think of is marginally during desegregation, even then only begrudgingly. As we can see from events in our time; Law Enforcement is still grossly institutionally racist.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and that changes only through voting.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Other than that, expanded police powers are almost uniformly turned against the people who deserve scrutiny the least...again part of the reason that I keep predicting that the capitol insurrectionists will face less arrests and consequences than BLM protestors, labor right supporters etc. , environmentalists, etc. even though they present a real threat to democracy that the other groups do not.

Malcolm wrote:
That changes only through voting.

Johnny Dangerous said:
That is the consistent history of US law enforcement, which is most certainly an arm of the State. The change there will come from actual deep structural changes in US policing pushed by communities...-

Malcolm wrote:
That changes only through voting.

Johnny Dangerous said:
not- from expanding their already insane powers of surveillance, etc. - which is exactly what I'll bet the mainstream democrats will be pushing for...in "bipartisan" fashion with what's left of the GOP after Trump recedes into the background. That is just a recipe for more of the same.

Malcolm wrote:
That changes only through voting.

Johnny Dangerous said:
Indeed "The State" is not some alien organization, it is a complex structure full of often contradictory interests depending on where you look. Some parts of it most definitely operate in the service of democracy, other parts (like most of the executive branch) are usually squarely pointed against democracy, or at least pull it towards authoritarianism on the regular.

Malcolm wrote:
That changes only through voting. So keep voting, and make sure that unlike 1968, 1972, 1980, 1984, 1988, 2000, 2004, and 2016, that voter turnout is huge. Stacy Abrams is the right model here, not fist fights with Proud Boys in Portland (who BTW, were never scared away by a large Antifa presence).

On the activist side of things, of course, large scale nonviolent protests, and the understanding that a great number of people who work for the government are not merely paper pushers, and who have the same interests as you and I. That includes police officers, FBI and CIA agents, soldiers, state department workers, etc.

If you don't like the government you see, then change it. The way we do that in this country for lasting, positive, forward change is by voting in people who will serve our interests, and voting them out if they don't. If you have some other way this all works, I am all ears, but so far, I see no other way that does not lead to total violence, anarchy, and war. These are the exact set of conditions fascism thrives in. That said, I also have no sympathy for fascists who get punched. Zero.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 3:49 AM
Title: Re: You Can't Fight Fascism By Expanding The Poice State
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
https://www.fastcompany.com/90592060/capitol-attack-fascism-surveillance-censorship?link_id=1&can_id=203678ed3087b4a2546dc0024813ec21&source=email-our-take-2&email_referrer=email_1041395&email_subject=you-cant-stop-fascism-with-authoritarianism

From a member of Fight For The Future, a great organization.
The new administration and Congress should resist the urge to rush through legislation or enact headline-grabbing policies that claim to respond to right-wing violence while reinforcing the systems that foster and enable it. Instead, they should listen to the communities most harmed by Trump and his supporters’ actions, and enact meaningful structural changes that begin the work of addressing systemic injustices at their root.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, taking personal responsibility for being the government, voting, etc.

BTW, I was not saying that one should never get out and stand up to fascists. I was saying that it was good that BLM etc. did not get out there last week on the mall. The point was that if there had been a large BLM/Antifa presence, we would have never seen what these people truly want to do.

The only way any of this changes is through the ballot box.

I still think your rhetoric of the state being some alien organism is mistaken.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 2:46 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
Not really. Wouldn't it be nice though if we could just fight it from the comforts of DW  while calling  fellow users names?

The propaganda of fascism operates partially on the ability to physically threaten in public, if people do not have a counter-response creating a public, anti-fascist presence, discussions like this mean very little.

Malcolm wrote:
Yeah, it really is.

Antifa's tactics are not a strategy. They are very temporary, and they are mostly west coast white dudes.

I was in antiwar/no nuke rallies before you were born. So please, don't lecture me about "physical presence."

The past year shows that all the physical confrontations of Antifa with the Proud Boys, etc., does not help. It legitimizes latter.

By contrast, the nonviolent marches of BLM demonstrated that Gandhi and King were right.

The best thing that Antifa and BLM did in DC last week was NOT SHOW UP. Because fascists, by their nature, will engage in violence even without provocation. If you think the only place I object to fascists is here, well, of course not. The reason I am not out standing somewhere is COVID.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 2:37 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
That said, relying on the state to fight fascism (rather than simply use is it as an opportunity to further state power) is also a position which is in opposition to available evidence.

Malcolm wrote:
We are the state. That is what it means to live in a democracy. The state is not something other than the voters, who put people in power. This kind of rhetoric is actually much of the problem. It causes people to think they are not responsible, when in fact it is their votes, or lack of votes, which govern these issues. Not enough people voted in 1968, 1972, 1980, 1984, 1988, 2000, 2004, and 2016. What is happening now is a direct consequence of lack of voter participation in those years.

Since we are the state, we should make sure that our interests are represented, so that institutions like the FBI, Justice Dept, etc., function in our interests. There really is no other way.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 2:32 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
Tlalok said:
The Beer Hall putsch was about as well organized as this, but the Germans weren't laughing ten years later.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct. And this is my point, despite some stupid people here who think, against all evidence, that fascists can be reasoned with, or that we should talk to them nicely. They seem to forget the paradox of intolerance on a daily basis.

Johnny Dangerous said:
A key point of opposing fascists is people being willing to do so en masse, in public.

Malcolm wrote:
Hello, isn't this IN PUBLIC?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 2:31 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:


Dan74 said:
It doesn't follow, however, that all the people who support him are racists and fascists as some here imply.

Malcolm wrote:
Dumbest.

If you support a fascist racist, how are you not a fascist racist? You make no sense Dan. I guess the air is too thin in your tower. Maybe you bring an oxygen tank up with you.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 2:29 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
amanitamusc said:
IMO  the security at the capitol needs to be more none  white.There is a serious loyalty problem.

Malcolm wrote:
Yup, And the Black cops had to put up with tremendous amount of racist comments from the insurrectionists.

In other news,  "r/donaldtrump" is shutdown, so the deplatforming of fascists on private platforms continues apace.

Now https://thedonald.win and Gab need to go.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 2:23 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
Tlalok said:
The Beer Hall putsch was about as well organized as this, but the Germans weren't laughing ten years later.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct. And this is my point, despite some stupid people here who think, against all evidence, that fascists can be reasoned with, or that we should talk to them nicely. They seem to forget the paradox of intolerance on a daily basis.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 2:02 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:


Malcolm wrote:
But is was this guy who prevented the Senate from being held hostage:


Tlalok said:
Sorry to correct you Malcom, but this wasn't going to be a hostage taking. They came to lynch Mike Pence, Nancy Pelosi and any other congressperson they could get their hands on.

Malcolm wrote:
Sure it was, before you can lynch anyone, you have to take them hostage. Had they managed to lay their hands on them, it would have swiftly turned into a hostage situation. The gallows were set up outside. Anyway, it do not happen, but next time? We need to make sure they never have another chance to get in.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 1:52 AM
Title: Re: Some questions about Shingon
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
The Shingon Risshu tradition is supposed to be extant and if so, they should, in theory, be following a full vinaya system.
I could be wrong about this, but my understanding is that, the same as the other Japanese Buddhist schools, the Risshu school was forcibly secularized during the Meiji-era haibutsu kishaku "reforms" (for lack of a better word).  There are individual Japanese priests or temples that follow the Dharmaguptaka vinaya but, to the best of my knowledge, the Dharmaguptaka lineage itself has died out in Japan.

Malcolm wrote:
Long ago, as a result of Saicho's Mahāyāna reformation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 1:49 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
There are a few smart, scary people amongst, and directing the LARPers. I hope those are the people the effort is focused on, the people who get serious sentences, etc.

Malcolm wrote:
Well, the people who didn't actually break anything, they will get probation, lose their jobs; all the dipshits who broke things will get mandatory ten years, thanks to their furher's EO last summer. The copkillers and those who violently beat the DC cop senseless on the steps will get death sentences or at least life, in the former case, and lengthy sentences in the latter.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 1:36 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
PeterC said:
They uploaded their drivers licenses to a site where they discussed violent insurrection.

How stupid can you be, really?

Johnny Dangerous said:
Pretty stupid I’d say. I mean, they thought they were gonna be literally overthrowing the government and reversing election results with their white man-baby tantrum. Not people with a good grasp of scale, at the very least.

Malcolm wrote:
Hitler, in the beginning, did not have a good grasp of scale. People learn through error. First it was the attacks last year on the Michigan state capital, the Oregon State, the Wisconsin State Capital, and so on. They were the dry runs. Then this assault on the US Capital. It is clear there was a coordinated attempt to make it happen, depriving police of manpower, refusing to release the National Guard, it has all the earmarks of an actual plot. The only reason it did not succeed is that was done under the guise of a "mob gone wild," rather than a specific military operation, which would have stood out and been more easy to prevent. These guys participated in the initial breach, and they clearly had military training:




But is was this guy who prevented the Senate from being held hostage:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 1:31 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
Dan74 said:
Folks like you and talk like the above, Malcolm, make fascists.

Bristollad said:
Do you disagree that Trump was authoritarian-leaning?  I don't understand why people who are so gung-ho for freedom, were so strong in their support for Trump.  Were they mislead, mistaken or simply willing to go along with it because he promised to fulfil some other, more important goal they had?

Malcolm wrote:
You should have seen the Parler video I saw this morning, with dogwhistles about "Rebirth of a Nation" etc. The three most important tv shows that cap this whole sad episode are the Handmaiden's Tale, the Watchmen, and The Boys.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 1:02 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:



Bristollad said:
No choose authoritarianism or democracy.  Hitler and Stalin were both authoritarians.  Trump was a wannabe authoritarian, I guess that's why he had a soft spot for Xi, Putin, Erdogan, Kim and probably others like the Saudis.  I really don't understand why some so-called American libertarians embraced and supported Trump.

Malcolm wrote:
Libertarianism is a gateway drug to Fascism.

Dan74 said:
Folks with libertarian tendencies...

Malcolm wrote:
Dumber.

Libertarianism is a distinct American political movement, with roots in the writings of Calhoun (and not Ayn Rand) and others who argued against federal power (where convenient) in order maintain the slave order; whereas "libertarian" refers to a political outlook. On all political tests, I am defined as very deep on the Left libertarian scale.

Read some American History, start with Democracy in Chains or How the South Won the Civil War.

Luckily, America just managed to avoid tazing itself in the balls to death. I fear next time, we won't be so lucky.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 1:00 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:


Dan74 said:
Folks like you and talk like the above, Malcolm, make fascists.

Malcolm wrote:
Ummm, not Dan, it is the Neville Chamberlains like you who permit fascists to flourish.

Dan74 said:
Yeah, execute the whole lot of them for treason. Why don't you lock up the 70 million who voted for Trump, while you are at it, Amerika can do with free labor, people get paid peanuts already.

Malcolm wrote:
Dumb.

Dan74 said:
Or at least disenfranchise them, since they are too dumb to have the right to vote. Fascism, eh?

Malcolm wrote:
Shutting down Parler does not disenfranchise anyone. Cutting someone off of twitter because their speech causes riots does not disenfranchise anyone.

The free speech argument is bogus. Those assholes still have free speech. Anytime Twittler wants, he can have a press conference. He could have even done a Chavez, a weekly Sunday show for six hours. He still can, for another 9 days.

I fully support the right of dumb motherf@#kers to vote for the idiots of their choice. If they win, as they did in 2016, I may not like the consequences, but as long as THEY DO NOT COMMIT TREASON AND FOMENT AN OVERTHROW OF THE GOVERNMENT THROUGH LIES AND VIOLENCE, I live with it.

I didn't like living under Reagan or Bush I, but I never thought the GOP was going to be involved in a plot to overthrow the government. I didn't even think this was a possibility under Bush II, since the GOP was still somewhat chastened by the memory of Nixon.

I never contested Trump's election or called foul. I did point out that Trump is a fascist. Over and over again in fact. I warned people that this was likely to happen. Thank goodness he lost he election by a huge margin. But here is the point: HE REFUSED TO CONCEDE, STILL REFUSES TO CONCEDE, AND IS A MENACE TO SOCIETY. Not only is he a menace to US society, he is a world menace, Napoleon level. America really only has to blame itself, but the lies about Clinton got into people's heads, and due to a fluke, and some bad judgment on the part of Comey, Russian agitprop, etc., Trump got in and ran the greatest grift in world history. You are going to be reading about the full extent of it for years to come. And so now, it comes to an end, and sadly, for all those people that got caught up in his grift, there will be serious consequences, jail time, probation, and for the specific people involved in beating that cop to death inside the capital building, yes, death sentences——which in this case I FULLY SUPPORT.

Right now, however, Trump and his band of insurrectionists need to be shut down hard, for the good of America and for the good of the world. Good thing we have Pelosi, the FBI, etc., on the job, doing just that. Lord knows that the GOP are feckless cowards.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 12th, 2021 at 12:23 AM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:


Sādhaka said:
So choose fascists or stalinists.

Seems legit.

Bristollad said:
No choose authoritarianism or democracy.  Hitler and Stalin were both authoritarians.  Trump was a wannabe authoritarian, I guess that's why he had a soft spot for Xi, Putin, Erdogan, Kim and probably others like the Saudis.  I really don't understand why some so-called American libertarians embraced and supported Trump.

Malcolm wrote:
Libertarianism is a gateway drug to Fascism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 11:32 PM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
These people are fascists.  No tolerance for fascists. If you not against them, your for them. No middle ground. Choose your side.


Sādhaka said:
Okay G. Dubya.

So choose fascists or stalinists.

Seems legit.

Malcolm wrote:
Dumb, dumber, dumbest. I am surprised you remember to breath.

Just remember, when you start out by falsely calling people stalinists, they are not gonna to put up with your bullshit for a second, you little shit. ( this is in reference to your Gang of Four reference the other day).

And for your information, both my grandfathers fought fascists in WWII, and my uncle fought communists in Korea. So piss off.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 11:22 PM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
Sādhaka said:
When I say maoist & cheka, I mean big gov. in general.

It’s an nice idea to think that Trump was maybe a 5D chess player who was at least a speed bump to their stalinist nwo; but now I’m not so sure that he wasn’t an psyop, used to further establish the stalinist trend of things we see happening....

Malcolm wrote:
Dumb and dumber...this how QAnon seeds itself in peoples brains.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 11:21 PM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
PeterC said:
They uploaded their drivers licenses to a site where they discussed violent insurrection.

How stupid can you be, really?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. But it is also more sinister, because Parler was also encouraging users to be influencers and rewarding them financially, once you were a trusted user. So, the next conspiracy theory is that Parler from the beginning was a deep state honeypot.

PeterC said:
Parler was the brainchild - sorry, child - of Rebeca Mercer (daughter of hedge fund billionaire and previously involved in Cambridge Analytica) and Steve Bannon.  I’m sure they fully intended to capture as much information about the users as possible for future political uses.  I’m also sure that nobody good at cyber security would be caught dead working for them. So perhaps this shouldn’t be a surprise

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, I know this...but the right wing in this country seems to have become immunized against facts.   And yes, Parler is basically Wordpress, and Wordpress security issues are well known.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 11:19 PM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
Norwegian said:
70TB of data was scraped. A lot of Parler users should be nervous now.


Sādhaka said:
Why? Because the Maoists & CHEKA may soon be coming after them?

Malcolm wrote:
Dude, I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re either suffering from a brain injury or a personality disorder because the shit you say is just so dumb.

To answer your question, it’s because the FBI, etc., is going to round up those seditionists who breached the Capital building, and anyone who participated even tangentially in conspiring to overthrow a valid election, and thus, the US government. That’s a federal crime, it’s treason, and should be punished harshly. And don’t give me your “what about BLM?” The idea that BLM or Antifa evenly remotely had any interest in hanging the Vice President of the United States and executing senators and representatives if they refused to go along with Trump’s plot to overturn the election is totally absurd. You might have noticed that BLM and Antifa were completely absent from DC on the 6th. Why? Because the Democrats won the election, against all odds given the amount of GOP corruption.

These people are fascists.  No tolerance for fascists. If you not against them, your for them. No middle ground. Choose your side.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 9:56 PM
Title: Re: Parler Hacked
Content:
PeterC said:
They uploaded their drivers licenses to a site where they discussed violent insurrection.

How stupid can you be, really?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. But it is also more sinister, because Parler was also encouraging users to be influencers and rewarding them financially, once you were a trusted user. So, the next conspiracy theory is that Parler from the beginning was a deep state honeypot.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 9:36 PM
Title: Parler Hacked
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 8:33 PM
Title: Re: Resources Request: Development of Buddhism at Nalanda (5th-7th century)
Content:
Padmist said:
I would like to learn how Nalanda's form of Buddhism developed. I haven't come across historical academic materials or videos on the development of Buddhism in the area from the time of the councils to the 5-6th century. Can you name any Buddhologists that talked about this period?

Malcolm wrote:
Davidson. The rise of Indian esoteric Buddhism

Snellgrove, Indo-Tibetan Buddhism 1 & 2

Etc


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 12:07 PM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:



Norwegian said:
22 posts within the Twitter thread. An observation on what took place at Capitol Hill, and what kind of people were there.

PeterC said:
There's been a lot of calls from 'conservatives' for 'healing', 'unity' etc. since the coup attempt.  I think what they're really asking for is amnesty and a chance to regroup and try again.  It's increasingly important that that does not happen.  History has lessons here.  The beer hall putsch was a joke and put down very easily.  It was fifteen years from then until Kristallnacht, but at that point it was not a joke at all.  Once these things build momentum - and this clearly has momentum in the US - they are very hard to stop.

Malcolm wrote:
They will find no solace. They are being deplatformed, their access to revenue and capital canceled as we speak, they are being placed on no-fly lists—in short, they are bad for business, and US corporations have no interest these days in being Nazi bitches like I.G Farben, Krupps, etc. we need to be watchful, but at this point Fascism is bad for business. Hell, the PGA cancelled their open at Bedminster in 2020.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 12:03 PM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
Caoimhghín said:
So does the OP disagree with the editors of WND that in WND 1:66 when Ven Nichiren says that "This four-phrase verse sums up the four teachings and three truths contained in the Flower Garland, Wisdom, and other sutras. It does not express the three truths as revealed and unified in the Lotus Sutra," these four phrases are in fact:

1. We speak of all things as ‘empty’ 
2. which are dependent in origination. 
3. They are no more than ‘existence in name only.’
4. This is the Middle Way.”

Malcolm wrote:
And this itself is just a summary of a single verse of the MMK, found nowhere in the Lotus.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 11:08 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



FiveSkandhas said:
So it's never going to work out; there is not enough common ground. It's like two people who speak different languages.

Malcolm wrote:
Please recall my three axioms:

Axiom 1: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and non-Nichiren Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 2: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and other Nichiren Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 3: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism are best avoided.

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=562998#p562998


tkp67 said:
I believe that axiom is of your own design correct?

Malcolm wrote:
I didn’t design them, I merely observed them.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 9:14 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Nichiren doxology and history is fascinating.

Malcolm wrote:
In a kind of forensic sort of way...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 6:55 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



FiveSkandhas said:
So it's never going to work out; there is not enough common ground. It's like two people who speak different languages.

Malcolm wrote:
Please recall my three axioms:

Axiom 1: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and non-Nichiren Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 2: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism between Nichiren Buddhists and other Nichiren Buddhists end in flame wars.

Axiom 3: All online conversations about Nichiren Buddhism are best avoided.

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=562998#p562998


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 6:53 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



tkp67 said:
The comparative method of evaluating sutras is a backbone of EA Buddhism.

Malcolm wrote:
Right, because no one else thought that they might comparatively evaluate sūtras...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 6:51 AM
Title: Re: A single sadhana or practice
Content:



Jangchup Donden said:
Whichever my guru recommended. I don't have the wisdom to know which practice would have the most benefit to others and myself, but he does.

Malcolm wrote:
Transformation practices are all the same; heads, faces, arms, hand implements, mantras, are all incidental and depend on karma, opportunity, etc. There is nothing really to choose from.

Jangchup Donden said:
Very true. No different in essence, and accomplishing one accomplishes all.  That being said (maybe it's my ignorance) but I have a feeling different people's karma may respond better to different visualizations, different lineages of transmission, etc., otherwise we wouldn't have the wide variety of deity yoga practices.

Malcolm wrote:
I don't know, this may sound cynical, but sometimes it sounds like McDonald's, Burger King, Wendie's, Arby's, etc.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 6:30 AM
Title: Re: A single sadhana or practice
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
Hello.
Many of you have received multiple sadhana and practice  empowerments; it seems some of you have received many indeed.

I am just curious: if you were to restrict yourself to a single sadhana or practice, which would you choose and why?

Jangchup Donden said:
Whichever my guru recommended. I don't have the wisdom to know which practice would have the most benefit to others and myself, but he does.

Malcolm wrote:
Transformation practices are all the same; heads, faces, arms, hand implements, mantras, are all incidental and depend on karma, opportunity, etc. There is nothing really to choose from.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 6:21 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:


Caoimhghín said:
complete and final and not upon those that are not complete and final."

Malcolm wrote:
That's a funny translation of nitārtha (definitive) and neyārtha (provisional) (not yours, I understand).


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 5:29 AM
Title: Re: Nagarjuna's tetralemma in contrast to Nichiren's interpretation of Tendai 3 Truths
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 11th, 2021 at 2:57 AM
Title: Re: Vajra Armor (Dorje Gotrab) Question
Content:


Charlie123 said:
Yes, Acarya Malcolm was probably writing to ChNN's students about ChNN's system.

Malcolm wrote:
It's in the original terma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 10th, 2021 at 11:02 PM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:



Minobu said:
I always admit when i'm wrong....this past few weeks have been a lesson in extremes for me..

Malcolm wrote:
I see, so you are refusing to apologize. Figures, since you also,just admitted to being sectarian. Fruit never falls far from the Shugden tree.

Minobu said:
now who is being sectarian...

what are you saying now...what does that even mean what i underlined
and i did apologize ..obviously you did not read the whole post...

maybe you need also to look in the mirror..

Malcolm wrote:
I read your whole post. A lot of waffling around, declarations of contempt for all other Buddhist schools, but no apology.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 10th, 2021 at 10:37 PM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:


Minobu said:
I see now that I was wrong


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and you need to  apologize for making an unfounded objection based in your sectarian biases and lack of education in the sutras of the Buddha and writings of Nagarjuna.

Minobu said:
I always admit when i'm wrong....this past few weeks have been a lesson in extremes for me..

Malcolm wrote:
I see, so you are refusing to apologize. Figures, since you also,just admitted to being sectarian. Fruit never falls far from the Shugden tree.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 10th, 2021 at 10:16 PM
Title: Re: TODAY at 4 pm pacific time - Transmission of Dzogchen Texts - Vajrayana Foundation
Content:


Crazywisdom said:
Mr Malcolm Namdrol likes to say this is only an Anuyoga Sadhana.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, because that’s what Chogyal Namkhai Norbu said about the sadhana.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 10th, 2021 at 8:21 PM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
"Do nothing" is not an option here,  calling for transparent and fair standards in content moderation is.

Relevant articles

Malcolm wrote:
That can only happen if people are not faceless nyms on the internet.

PeterC said:
Agree.  The lack of responsibility for ones speech is central to this.  Pre the Internet, speech free of responsibility was limited to what you said in private with people you trusted. With social media, people can now speak to audiences of millions with no real responsibility.  We need to go back to the pre-Internet standard - and while that means some people can’t speak so freely on the Internet, that’s generally no bad thing and they will be able to live with it.

Malcolm wrote:
Apparently, people need licensing  and insurance before they are allowed to drive on the internet. And kids under sixteen should not be allowed access to the open internet at all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 10th, 2021 at 8:18 PM
Title: Re: A single sadhana or practice
Content:


FiveSkandhas said:
Is the secrecy attached to personal practice Vajrayana etiquette in particular?

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and people here gossip too much about what they are doing and so on.n


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 10th, 2021 at 8:14 PM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:


Minobu said:
I see now that I was wrong


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, and you need to  apologize for making an unfounded objection based in your sectarian biases and lack of education in the sutras of the Buddha and writings of Nagarjuna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 10th, 2021 at 6:24 AM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
"Do nothing" is not an option here,  calling for transparent and fair standards in content moderation is.

Relevant articles

Malcolm wrote:
That can only happen if people are not faceless nyms on the internet.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 10th, 2021 at 6:22 AM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:
Brunelleschi said:
Thirdly, they've already started purging all kinds of account on their platforms - including leftist ones.

Malcolm wrote:
Free speech does not apply to privately owned platforms, including this one.

Brunelleschi said:
Which, when these platforms are the main source of information for billions of people could have long lasting consequences. Last time there was a purge like this a number of Pro-Palestinian organisations were banned. This is not concerning to you?

Malcolm wrote:
No. Leftists can build their own platforms.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 10th, 2021 at 3:42 AM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:
Brunelleschi said:
Thirdly, they've already started purging all kinds of account on their platforms - including leftist ones.

Malcolm wrote:
Free speech does not apply to privately owned platforms, including this one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Sunday, January 10th, 2021 at 3:12 AM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:


Genjo Conan said:
Minobu, if you believe that Nagarjuna supports your view, it would be helpful to provide some quotations or citations to back that up.

Malcolm wrote:
You'll be waiting until the least next Mahākalpa for that.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 9th, 2021 at 8:04 PM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:
PeterC said:
He’s now banned permanently from Twitter. For now he’s also banned on Facebook, twitch, etc.  I suspect other platforms will follow shortly and the ban will be permanent.  This is a very important step - taking away his ability to talk to the crazies will show how dependant he was on social media. But the crazies will still be out there and others will be talking to, courting and provoking them.  At some point the circumstances that created them in the first place will have to be dealt with.

Brunelleschi said:
That power over US democracy (and other democracies) is now increasingly in the hands of a few Silicon Valley oligarchs without accountability is obviously problematic. Especially since it's usually leftists to speak truth to power.

PeterC said:
I agree. The traditional media used to abuse that power in the past, and would still today if not for their increasing irrelevance. But they had explicit agendas and were subject to regulations on content. The social media companies are worse because they represent no position and are subject to no effective regulation - they simply sell access to and information on voters to the highest bidder.

Malcolm wrote:
This issue IMO is anonymity, not access. Anonymity encourages irresponsibility. I understand some people have very valid reasons for being anonymous, nevertheless, my point stands.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 9th, 2021 at 10:52 AM
Title: Re: malcolm please have a look here
Content:


Queequeg said:
They got it in East Asia. Its expressed differently, but that's a linguistic matter.

Malcolm wrote:
Some did, some didn’t, just like in India and Tibet.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 9th, 2021 at 10:48 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:





PeterC said:
My friend, you could not be more wrong.  You have no idea what the monetary expansion of the past year is going to do to us when the consequences arrive.

People often dismiss these things as meaningless because they don’t understand them.  But they are very, very significant.

Malcolm wrote:
Hopefully Biden will be able to successfully navigate us through the crushing contraction that is ahead.

PeterC said:
He’s got a good team.  But the end of cheap money is a bit like climate change or the failure of antibiotics.  It’s going to happen and we’re just going to have to live through the consequences.

Malcolm wrote:
I guess we have to put the stock market in rehab sooner or later.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 9th, 2021 at 10:07 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:





PeterC said:
My friend, you could not be more wrong.  You have no idea what the monetary expansion of the past year is going to do to us when the consequences arrive.

People often dismiss these things as meaningless because they don’t understand them.  But they are very, very significant.

Malcolm wrote:
Hopefully Biden will be able to successfully navigate us through the crushing contraction that is ahead.

Norwegian said:
It will take an inordinate amount of effort and coordination from many people to manage it. May that truly happen. Nothing would be better.

Malcolm wrote:
There is some hope on the fascist front, this is who we are facing—not safe for the overly compassionate, fascist sympathizers, or the morally superior:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 9th, 2021 at 9:37 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Minobu said:
It's a game...like toss trillions and never pay back...like not even five bucks...

like i said money is not real...it's a game ...wall street owns the system...the whole system...the military economy ...the government ...banks...corporations...the whole enchilada..



PeterC said:
My friend, you could not be more wrong.  You have no idea what the monetary expansion of the past year is going to do to us when the consequences arrive.

People often dismiss these things as meaningless because they don’t understand them.  But they are very, very significant.

Malcolm wrote:
Hopefully Biden will be able to successfully navigate us through the crushing contraction that is ahead.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 9th, 2021 at 5:21 AM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Sādhaka said:
Then according to Candrakirti, there’s no such thing as an  icchantika, but at the same time there kind of is?

Did Candrakirti elaborate on that at all?

Malcolm wrote:
Not really. In general, Madhyamakas reject the concept, but admit some beings are hopeless, like these people:


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 9th, 2021 at 1:46 AM
Title: Re: malcolm please have a look here
Content:



Minobu said:
What i said was pure Madhyamika ...the way Lord Nagarjuna taught it and the way Gelug teaches.

Malcolm wrote:
No. Actually it isn't.

The rest of your screed is purely sectarian, uneducated bullshit. So I am not going to respond to it. I have better things to do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 9th, 2021 at 1:32 AM
Title: Re: Timothy Snyder—The Big Lie
Content:
Genjo Conan said:
To be honest, though, I take this all to be legal prapanca.  I think the chances of Trump being removed from office are substantially less than the chances that, say, he starts a war with Iran in the next twelve days.

Malcolm wrote:
Guess we will see.

Anyway, I am rooting for impeachment and conviction even if he has left office. And yes, that has happened. The cabinet sectary you mention, Belknap. Resigned after he was impeached, and was still convicted.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 9th, 2021 at 12:58 AM
Title: Re: Timothy Snyder—The Big Lie
Content:
Ayu said:
I heard, if Trump would get impeached or deposed in another way within his last 12 days now, he cannot run for presidency next time.

Genjo Conan said:
That is one theory.  It's never been tested.  No one knows what would happen if a President who's been removed from office tries to run again, because it's never happened and the Constitution is silent on it.

(I assume that, by "impeached," you mean "convicted."  Impeachment is the first step; the House does that.  Then the President goes to trial in the Senate.)

Malcolm wrote:
"Convicted", as far as I know, means that official cannot never hold another office.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 9th, 2021 at 12:25 AM
Title: Re: Timothy Snyder—The Big Lie
Content:
Ayu said:
I heard, if Trump would get impeached or deposed in another way within his last 12 days now, he cannot run for presidency next time.
That would be good news at the end of these four years.

FiveSkandhas said:
He's already been impeached once...does that mean he can't run again? Or is there something special about this particular period in his tenure?

Malcolm wrote:
He has to be convicted. And he can be impeached once he leaves office.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Saturday, January 9th, 2021 at 12:24 AM
Title: Re: Timothy Snyder—The Big Lie
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
sane Republicans,

Malcolm wrote:
Those are in a the minority, as the house vote Thursday morning demonstrated. And yes, they do represent the views of their constituents.

FiveSkandhas said:
I don't live in America and I haven't been there in some time. But I find it hard to believe 70 million (the figure I heard) people who voted Republican are as insane as the lunatics who tarnished US democracy with the storming of the Capitol.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.courant.com/politics/hc-pol-q-poll-republicans-believe-fraud-20201210-pcie3uqqvrhyvnt7geohhsyepe-story.html

FiveSkandhas said:
The latest national poll by the Hamden-based university shows huge differences in political perceptions by voters, based on their party affiliation. Among Democrats, 97% say there was no widespread fraud in the election, but 77% of Republicans believe there was. Among independents, 62% said there was no widespread fraud and 35% said they believe there was.

Malcolm wrote:
As I said.

FiveSkandhas said:
Around a third of registered voters in the U.S. (34%) identify as independents, while 33% identify as Democrats and 29% identify as Republicans, according to a Center analysis of Americans’ partisan identification based on surveys of more than 12,000 registered voters in 2018 and 2019.

Malcolm wrote:
And:
Most independents in the U.S. lean toward one of the two major parties. When taking independents’ partisan leanings into account, 49% of all registered voters either identify as Democrats or lean to the party, while 44% identify as Republicans or lean to the GOP.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/

There were a 159 million votes. 74 million went to Trump. 81 Million when to Biden.

So at least 50 million people think Biden stole the election. Hence, the house republicans do represent the views of their constituents.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 9:43 PM
Title: Re: Timothy Snyder—The Big Lie
Content:
Ayu said:
I heard, if Trump would get impeached or deposed in another way within his last 12 days now, he cannot run for presidency next time.
That would be good news at the end of these four years.

Malcolm wrote:
He can be impeached after he leaves office as well.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 8:51 PM
Title: Re: Timothy Snyder—The Big Lie
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
sane Republicans,

Malcolm wrote:
Those are in a the minority, as the house vote Thursday morning demonstrated. And yes, they do represent the views of their constituents.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 8:04 PM
Title: Re: Timothy Snyder—The Big Lie
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Btw, here is the text of the executive order trump signed about federal property:

PeterC said:
There have been five state legislators - all republicans - identified so far among the rioters.

Fortunately for them trumps executive orders have as much force as a piece of toilet paper signed by a monkey.

Malcolm wrote:
Oh, that’s not the point. This document puts together all the laws addressing these kinds of crimes, and many of these clowns are gonna to do hard time, especially now that a cop died.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 7:18 PM
Title: Re: Timothy Snyder—The Big Lie
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Btw, here is the text of the executive order trump signed about federal property: Sec. 2.  Policy.  (a)  It is the policy of the United States to prosecute to the fullest extent permitted under Federal law, and as appropriate, any person or any entity that destroys, damages, vandalizes, or desecrates a monument, memorial, or statue within the United States or otherwise vandalizes government property.  The desire of the Congress to protect Federal property is clearly reflected in section 1361 of title 18, United States Code, which authorizes a penalty of up to 10 years’ imprisonment for the willful injury of Federal property.  More recently, under the Veterans’ Memorial Preservation and Recognition Act of 2003, section 1369 of title 18, United States Code, the Congress punished with the same penalties the destruction of Federal and in some cases State-maintained monuments that honor military veterans.  Other criminal statutes, such as the Travel Act, section 1952 of title 18, United States Code, permit prosecutions of arson damaging monuments, memorials, and statues on State grounds in some cases.  Civil statutes like the Public System Resource Protection Act, section 100722 of title 54, United States Code, also hold those who destroy certain Federal property accountable for their offenses.  The Federal Government will not tolerate violations of these and other laws.

(b)  It is the policy of the United States to prosecute to the fullest extent permitted under Federal law, and as appropriate, any person or any entity that participates in efforts to incite violence or other illegal activity in connection with the riots and acts of vandalism described in section 1 of this order.  Numerous Federal laws, including section 2101 of title 18, United States Code, prohibit the violence that has typified the past few weeks in some cities.  Other statutes punish those who participate in or assist the agitators who have coordinated these lawless acts.  Such laws include section 371 of title 18, United States Code, which criminalizes certain conspiracies to violate Federal law, section 2 of title 18, United States Code, which punishes those who aid or abet the commission of Federal crimes, and section 2339A of title 18, United States Code, which prohibits as material support to terrorism efforts to support a defined set of Federal crimes.  Those who have joined in recent violent acts around the United States will be held accountable.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-protecting-american-monuments-memorials-statues-combating-recent-criminal-violence/


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 7:04 PM
Title: Re: Congratulations President elect Joe Biden
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The older I get, the more I think the Yogacarins were onto something with their idea of icchantikas.

Anyway, bodhisattvas can’t save anyone. That’s not how the Dharma works. Everybody must liberate themselves.


Sādhaka said:
I often wonder if there is an such thing as an icchantika (which is similar to the idea of an organic portals or NPC); but didn’t you once post that believing in icchantika’s is considered an downfall, that is in the Mahayana teachings that are considered more definitive than Cittamatra and/or Yogacara?

And if it is considered a downfall, then what, if any, scriptural sources explicitly outline why or how?

Malcolm wrote:
There are no icchantikas, however some sentient beings are so afflicted, they might as well be, according the Candrakirti.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 7:01 PM
Title: Re: Timothy Snyder—The Big Lie
Content:
PeterC said:
Who does this remind you of?

"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it. He has the "never say die" spirit. After some of his severest set-backs he has been able to get his immediate associates together and begin making plans for a "come-back"."

"Never to admit a fault or wrong; never to accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time; blame that enemy for everything that goes wrong; take advantage of every opportunity to raise a political whirlwind."

By internet rules I'm going to lose any argument I'm engaged in, because the sources were these.  But the quotes do seem...eerily prescient.
https://phdn.org/archives/www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/documents/osssection3pt1.htm
https://archive.org/details/AnalysisThePersonalityofAdolphHitler

Malcolm wrote:
Godwin’s law only applies when you say the name...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 10:36 AM
Title: Timothy Snyder—The Big Lie
Content:



Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 6:49 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
karmanyingpo said:
I can not say I agree with them or support many of their ideas actions and words but I do understand that there are levels to the madness and perfectly ordinary and often "good" people get caught up in all this.

KN

Malcolm wrote:
Good Germans, huh?

Johnny Dangerous said:
Yes.

Malcolm wrote:
You missed the point of reference. The people who ignored the atrocities of the Nazis were the “good Germans.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 5:43 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
karmanyingpo said:
I can not say I agree with them or support many of their ideas actions and words but I do understand that there are levels to the madness and perfectly ordinary and often "good" people get caught up in all this.

KN

Malcolm wrote:
Good Germans, huh?


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 5:41 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
There really are Trump supporters who are decent people.

Malcolm wrote:
Sorry, I can’t agree. There is no decency in supporting Trump.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 5:40 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:


Könchok Thrinley said:
Yeah, I have heard. Quite a life she has lived, right? And makes one wonder really.

Malcolm wrote:
Don't forget, she died because she was participating in a terrorist attack on the US Capital, incited by the outgoing President of the United States in an attempt to disrupt the recognition of the victory of his opponent. What happened yesterday was terrorism, pure and simple.

Dan74 said:
Is that what you believe she was thinking?

The Buddha taught that the intention is paramount. So before we pass any judgment, it behoves us to inquire as to the people's intention. This was largely what I was interested in when I engaged with Patriot Prayer, or as you put it "flirted with fascists".

Malcolm wrote:
She was engaged in a terrorist act, no less than Bader-Meinhoff, the SLA, or the Red Brigades. The fact that terrorists act with deluded intentions does not make their acts any less terrorist. As for your choice of conversational partners, well, only fools dialogue with fascists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 1:48 AM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:


Minobu said:
It actually is very clear. Nice for it helps to point to the view. Which is the best we can hope for with words

Malcolm wrote:
The best way to put is that reality, emptiness, is inexpressible and free of proliferation.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Friday, January 8th, 2021 at 1:35 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:


Könchok Thrinley said:
Yeah, I have heard. Quite a life she has lived, right? And makes one wonder really.

Malcolm wrote:
Don't forget, she died because she was participating in a terrorist attack on the US Capital, incited by the outgoing President of the United States in an attempt to disrupt the recognition of the victory of his opponent. What happened yesterday was terrorism, pure and simple.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 10:19 PM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:
Minobu said:
Cause correct me if I’m wrong but the middle way is saying it’s both existence and non existence.

Malcolm wrote:
No. That is the third of the four extremes.

That which arises dependently is free of all four extremes: existence, nonexistence, both, and neither.

That’s the middle way, according to the Buddha and Nagarjuna.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 10:10 PM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:
FiveSkandhas said:
The pictures from the storming of the the Capitol are horrifying. What were/are these people hoping to achieve? Is this just some sort of base-brain explosion of crass emotion?

The damage to democracy will be abiding

PeterC said:
After all of that, and past midnight, republican legislators are still disputing the vote count.  They do not believe in democracy.

Malcolm wrote:
No, they should be unseated.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 11:52 AM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:
DNS said:
The U.S. Senate rejected the objection over the Arizona vote by a vote of 93-6. This will be the pattern for the rest of the objections too. This is what I have been saying from the beginning, since November 5th. Regardless if you support Trump or not, the votes just were never there to overturn the results.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes. We know. That’s not the point.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 9:18 AM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:



Charlie123 said:
It is really good news. Stacey Abrams is a sort of hero.

Malcolm wrote:
She is a total Shero. With super powers.

Tlalok said:
What started with a Sherman ends with an Abrams.

Malcolm wrote:
Good one.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 9:12 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
DNS said:
The woman who was shot has died.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/01/06/dc-protests-trump-rally-live-updates/

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, she stupidly broke into the capital and was caught in the crossfire between her companions and the capital police.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 8:44 AM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
In other news, looks like the senate has flipped.

Charlie123 said:
It is really good news. Stacey Abrams is a sort of hero.

Malcolm wrote:
She is a total Shero. With super powers.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 8:43 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
BTW they locked Twittler’s Twitter account. About time.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 8:40 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
This says it all:



MAGA people are traitors.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 8:36 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
He's not a lunatic. He's not the best at being a fascist, but like I said, this can be seen as a practice run. He knows exactly what he is doing, and we should take these people seriously.

Malcolm wrote:
As I have been saying since 2015.

Dan74 said:
Well, you let a Real Estate huckster cum Reality TV star become President,

Malcolm wrote:
I didn’t, you dumbass. And I am not the one here that flirts with fascists.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 7:27 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
He's not a lunatic. He's not the best at being a fascist, but like I said, this can be seen as a practice run. He knows exactly what he is doing, and we should take these people seriously.

Malcolm wrote:
As I have been saying since 2015.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 5:25 AM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes, except for terrorist attack on the capital building.



DNS said:
Almost looks like a coup d'état!

Malcolm wrote:
These people are all going to jail, the dumb f#@ks.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 5:16 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
There is bloodshed, someone has been shot, no information beyond that at this point.

Könchok Thrinley said:
Didn't know it when I wrote it. Horrible horrible, it looks quite scary even from the safety of Europe. Might be because every major war in the history of the west took place basically where I live. But seriously tho, this is a really scary moment. Makes me wonder what happens next.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, a women, an insurrectionist, was shot in the chest during an armed standoff on the house floor.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 4:52 AM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:
DNS said:
Some Congressman stood up to object to the results for Arizona, so the voting on certification has temporarily stopped. But like I say, it will be easily dismissed within 2 hours and then they continue to the other states until there is another objection for another state and the process stops, debates, then votes and continues again after that.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, except for terrorist attack on the capital building.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 4:51 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
Johnny Dangerous said:
If this were a BLM protest doing the same thing can you imagine the police presence?

Norwegian said:
National Guard would be there within 2.4 seconds, there would be water cannons, tear gas, pepper spray, tasers, rubber bullets, actual bullets, riot vans, shields, batons, everything. Trump would be screaming in caps lock on Twitter about evil communist left wing radical extremist terrorists and would urge the police to shoot on sight.

And DOD has declined Pelosi's request to send in the National Guard...

Malcolm wrote:
Trump comtrols DC national guard.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 4:50 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
Ayu said:
Can't read twitter. I can only guess, what this thread is about.

Malcolm wrote:
Fascists gnashing their teeth, engaged in treason and terrorism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 1:54 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
Dan74 said:
.... or it may be the beginning of the Great Disappointment. The reminder of why Trump could ever have been contemplated as someone fit for office.

On the other hand, if you get 3 out of the 4 things you mention, Malcolm, I will happily donate $1000 to your charity of choice.

Malcolm wrote:
I am not going to hold you to that, but I appreciate the sentiment despite its basis in cynicism.

Johnny Dangerous said:
IDK about cynicism, going by the record of past Democratic administrations, The Great Disappointment seems like an accurate guess. Like in all things political though, looking only at politicians tells a small portion of the story. I am pretty enthused that we are going to see substantial criminal justice reform over the next years, at least.

Malcolm wrote:
Only if you set your expectations in some left wing Lala land.

First order of business is to rebuild a functional gvt.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Thursday, January 7th, 2021 at 1:20 AM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
Dan74 said:
.... or it may be the beginning of the Great Disappointment. The reminder of why Trump could ever have been contemplated as someone fit for office.

On the other hand, if you get 3 out of the 4 things you mention, Malcolm, I will happily donate $1000 to your charity of choice.

Malcolm wrote:
I am not going to hold you to that, but I appreciate the sentiment despite its basis in cynicism.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 6th, 2021 at 9:45 PM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:
Könchok Thrinley said:
I especially hope that the progressive voice will be heard and liebrals won't suddenly feel like everything is okay. Because it is not.

Malcolm wrote:
Now that Dems control the White House, the Senate, and the House, I am sure Biden will not squander this, and further, that the left will push hard to get our agenda through, green new deal, infrastructure, reducing military spending, etc. Joe Manchin is a problem, but surmountable.

Most importantly, national mobilization of vaccines, and international cooperation to stamp out covid.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 6th, 2021 at 9:43 PM
Title: Re: The Restoration...
Content:


PeterC said:
There’s been coverage but as you say less than the race riots.  It’s interesting to see how quickly the MAGA crowd drops “blue lives matter” as a slogan when it’s their violent protest that’s getting shut down.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, now the police are Chi-coms, all in a matter of a few weeks.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 6th, 2021 at 9:21 PM
Title: The Restoration...
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
It's not going to be easy, but now we are in a position to restore American institutions and make them stronger. Today is a good day, despite the fascist wailing and gnashing of teeth in DC today.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 6th, 2021 at 7:00 PM
Title: Re: New here with question on Gay
Content:
Ardha said:
. I'm at a point in my life where I am tired of feeling like this, tired of "apologizing" for being gay and wanting to move past this and heal. Can this help with that?

Malcolm wrote:
Be happy that you are gay. It’s not a choice. According to Tibetan medicine, it’s just biology.

Have some compassion for yourself, and how you’ve been conditioned to regard yourself with disregard and hatred.

Therapy might help, but extending love to yourself will work wonders.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 6th, 2021 at 6:37 PM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:
PeterC said:
most observers are now estimating that the final result will go against them in both races for this reason.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed...

PeterC said:
Looks like both seats are in the bag for the democrats at this point, though by margins of victory in the thousands of votes, so cue weeks of more republican whining about electoral fraud.

There seems to be relatively low republican turnout - so it could well be that Trump's constant complaining about mail-in votes actually cost them the senate



Malcolm wrote:
I love the sound of “Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.”  Now let’s pass some bills.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 6th, 2021 at 11:57 AM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:
PeterC said:
most observers are now estimating that the final result will go against them in both races for this reason.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed...


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 6th, 2021 at 11:05 AM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:


PeterC said:
The only hope we have is if both senate seats in Georgia go democrat...

Malcolm wrote:
Looking pretty good at 8:30 pm.

PeterC said:
They might take both.

Interesting reflection on race here.  If Warnock wins, he would be the 11th black senator ever, and the first ever from Georgia.  A third of Georgia's population is black, and apart from Mississippi at 39%, is the highest proportion of any state. (DC would be higher if it wasn't disenfranchised.)  I'm not saying that's a reason why he should be elected - I think he deserves to win because he's better-qualified and less extreme than his opponent - but I think a lot of Georgians would appreciate it.

Malcolm wrote:
Waiting on Dekalb...82 percent of votes in, GOP has slim lead right now,  but the mail-in vote has not been fully tabulated.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 6th, 2021 at 10:33 AM
Title: Re: 'I just want 11,780 votes'
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The lawyer on the call should disbarred for even suggesting that GA turn over private voter information to the Trump campaign.
Her firm is upset. Bet she loses her job:
Firm Response to Reports of Partner Cleta Mitchell’s Involvement in Post-Election Challenges
04 January 2021  Media Contact: Dan Farrell  News

Foley & Lardner LLP is not representing any parties seeking to contest the results of the presidential election. In November, the firm made a policy decision not to take on any representation of any party in connection with matters related to the presidential election results. Our policy did allow our attorneys to participate in observing election recounts and similar actions on a voluntary basis in their individual capacity as private citizens so long as they did not act as legal advisers. We are aware of, and are concerned by, Ms. Mitchell’s participation in the January 2 conference call and are working to understand her involvement more thoroughly.
https://www.foley.com/en/insights/news/2021/01/firm-response-reports-partner-cleta-mitchells


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 6th, 2021 at 9:40 AM
Title: Re: Election results to be certified tomorrow
Content:


PeterC said:
The only hope we have is if both senate seats in Georgia go democrat...

Malcolm wrote:
Looking pretty good at 8:30 pm.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Wednesday, January 6th, 2021 at 12:17 AM
Title: Re: Gelug Madhyamaka
Content:


Nicholas2727 said:
Thank you for all of your replies, that helps clarify some confusion I had on the issue. Would you be able to clarify more on the last point that I quoted? I understand that they do not have a rangtong view since they do not hold a shentong view, but what disagreements do they have on emptiness then? From what I have seen, the Sakya Pandita and Tsongkhapa had different interpretations of emptiness, but from the little bit I have read it seems the Sakya interpretation and Gelug interpretation are similar.

Malcolm wrote:
The disagreements between Sakya and Geluk on Madhyamaka fill many volumes.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 9:22 PM
Title: Re: Definition: “Outflows” ?
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
In various texts, the term “outflows”  is used, such as the Buddha or his disciples being free from outflows.

I know that finding the right word in English to translate a concept from Sanskrit can be a challenge, but the meaning of this one is really unclear to me.

What does the term refer to,
and what specifically isn’t “flowing out” ?

Malcolm wrote:
In Theravada, they usually translate this as cankers. It refers to a state of affliction, which is like a weeping sore.

In Tibetan, asrava is translated as zag bcas, “with effluents”


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 10:49 AM
Title: Re: Three kayas
Content:



Johnny Dangerous said:
I don't recall the distinction between the two at the moment, at least not in way that's immediately obvious to me, can you elaborate please?

Malcolm wrote:
The trikaya of the basis is the potential for the three kayas of the result, but that potential has not manifested its qualities. Mahamudra and Lamdre present a similar idea.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I get that, but how do you distinguish the Trikaya of the result, simply saying that the qualities which were potential are manifest in the result, aka Buddhahood? I mean, it seems that nine times out of ten when we want to talk about the Trikaya, we can only do so from the point of view of potentiality.

I don't remember how this distinction is made in Dzogchen or Mahamudra, in particular, other than the obvious as above, that's why I'm asking.

Malcolm wrote:
The dharmakaya of the basis is the emptiness of the mind, the dharmakaya of the result is the omniscience from realizing that emptiness, for example.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 10:24 AM
Title: Re: Three kayas
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
From a practical standpoint, the three kayas are present in the state of the indvidual, and can be..."experienced" as limited a term as that might be, recognized is maybe a better term?

Malcolm wrote:
This the trikaya of the basis, not the result.

Johnny Dangerous said:
I don't recall the distinction between the two at the moment, at least not in way that's immediately obvious to me, can you elaborate please?

Malcolm wrote:
The trikaya of the basis is the potential for the three kayas of the result, but that potential has not manifested its qualities. Mahamudra and Lamdre present a similar idea.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 9:59 AM
Title: Re: Three kayas
Content:


Johnny Dangerous said:
From a practical standpoint, the three kayas are present in the state of the indvidual, and can be..."experienced" as limited a term as that might be, recognized is maybe a better term?

Malcolm wrote:
This the trikaya of the basis, not the result.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 9:58 AM
Title: Re: Three kayas
Content:
PadmaVonSamba said:
After many years, I have yet to find a really clear explanation of the meaning of
Dharmakaya
Nirmanakaya
Sambhogakaya

Malcolm wrote:
From a sutra point of view, the Abhisamayalamkara has the best definition. From a sarma point of view, you can find good explanations of the seven limbs of the kayas in several Sakya, Kagyu, or Gelug texts. In nyingma, look no further than longchenpa.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 6:06 AM
Title: Re: 'I just want 11,780 votes'
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
The lawyer on the call should disbarred for even suggesting that GA turn over private voter information to the Trump campaign.
Her firm is upset. Bet she loses her job:
Firm Response to Reports of Partner Cleta Mitchell’s Involvement in Post-Election Challenges
04 January 2021  Media Contact: Dan Farrell  News

Foley & Lardner LLP is not representing any parties seeking to contest the results of the presidential election. In November, the firm made a policy decision not to take on any representation of any party in connection with matters related to the presidential election results. Our policy did allow our attorneys to participate in observing election recounts and similar actions on a voluntary basis in their individual capacity as private citizens so long as they did not act as legal advisers. We are aware of, and are concerned by, Ms. Mitchell’s participation in the January 2 conference call and are working to understand her involvement more thoroughly.
https://www.foley.com/en/insights/news/2021/01/firm-response-reports-partner-cleta-mitchells


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 5:51 AM
Title: Re: 'I just want 11,780 votes'
Content:
Malcolm wrote:
Plaintiffs’ theory that all of these laws are unconstitutional and that the Court should instead require state legislatures themselves to certify every Presidential election lies somewhere between a willful misreading of the Constitution and fantasy...

Yet even that may be letting Plaintiffs off the hook too lightly. Their failure to make any effort to serve or formally notify any Defendant — even after reminder by the Court in its Minute Order — renders it difficult to believe that the suit is meant seriously. Courts are not instruments through which parties engage in such gamesmanship or symbolic political gestures. As a result, at the conclusion of this litigation, the Court will determine whether to issue an order to show cause why this matter should not be referred to its Committee on Grievances for potential discipline of Plaintiffs’ counsel.
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225330/gov.uscourts.dcd.225330.10.0_1.pdf

Dan74 said:
Wow... this is pretty damning...

As regards Trump's phone-call, it's a bit hard to know how to read him. Either he genuinely believes all that he spouts and then he is basically just saying to Raffensberger to "do the right thing and identify the fraudulent votes" or he wants to appear that way to his supporters. And in Trumpworld, there's probably not a lot of difference between the two..

Malcolm wrote:
He actually asked Raffensberger to commit voter fraud by "recalculating" the votes" and finding 11,800" votes for Trump The lawyer on the call should disbarred for even suggesting that GA turn over private voter information to the Trump campaign. This is a serious felony both at the federal and the state level, and it is a direct result of the gutless GOP not impeaching the bastard when they had the opportunity. They still have sixteen days though.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 4:30 AM
Title: Re: Can someone explain Yogacara to me?
Content:
Dharmalight889 said:
In one article I read on Lionsroar.com, it lead me to believe that there is a philosophical split between Madhyamaka and Yogacara and one could not follow both schools. I am assuming from some of the answers, this conclusion may have been wrong.

Malcolm wrote:
In most Tibetan Buddhist schools, Madhyamaka is the highest viewpoint, with the Yogacāra school's perspective held as being inferior. This hierarchy is also enshrined in tantras such as Hevajra, where Madhyamaka is held to be superior to Yogacāra.

There is a lot of modern scholarship however, which tries to reinterpret yogacāra in better light. I personally don't find it very convincing, but others do.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 3:55 AM
Title: Re: 'I just want 11,780 votes'
Content:
Unknown said:
Plaintiffs’ theory that all of these laws are unconstitutional and that the Court should instead require state legislatures themselves to certify every Presidential election lies somewhere between a willful misreading of the Constitution and fantasy...

Yet even that may be letting Plaintiffs off the hook too lightly. Their failure to make any effort to serve or formally notify any Defendant — even after reminder by the Court in its Minute Order — renders it difficult to believe that the suit is meant seriously. Courts are not instruments through which parties engage in such gamesmanship or symbolic political gestures. As a result, at the conclusion of this litigation, the Court will determine whether to issue an order to show cause why this matter should not be referred to its Committee on Grievances for potential discipline of Plaintiffs’ counsel.

Malcolm wrote:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225330/gov.uscourts.dcd.225330.10.0_1.pdf


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 1:52 AM
Title: Re: Buddha without 9 realms, permanent aggregates, and the aggregates of nirvana
Content:


Queequeg said:
As to whether its interpretable or definitive

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely interpretable.


Queequeg said:
With the caveat that I am suspicious of any categorical statements, especially ones that I profess, there is little that is truer; as close to a definitive teaching as I can fathom.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, and Candrakīrti's exposition of it is the clearest and is best for removing Buddhist misconceptions about the view.

Queequeg said:
Working my way to Candrakirti. A lot on the plate. Its interesting to me because Candrakirti did not make to East Asia. It will be interesting to compare Candrakirti to Tachitulun attributed to Nagarjuna, which arguably is the framework for understanding Nagarjuna in EA. Gimme 10 years or so to be able to comment.

Malcolm wrote:
The East Asian commentary which is closest to Candrakīrti's is the one by Piṅgala on the MMK, translated and expanded by Kumarajiva.  It has been translated into English.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 1:40 AM
Title: Re: Buddha without 9 realms, permanent aggregates, and the aggregates of nirvana
Content:


Queequeg said:
As to whether its interpretable or definitive

Malcolm wrote:
Definitely interpretable.


Queequeg said:
With the caveat that I am suspicious of any categorical statements, especially ones that I profess, there is little that is truer; as close to a definitive teaching as I can fathom.

Malcolm wrote:
Indeed, and Candrakīrti's exposition of it is the clearest and is best for removing Buddhist misconceptions about the view.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 1:37 AM
Title: Re: Gelug Madhyamaka
Content:
Nicholas2727 said:
I still get the impression that they are stating nothing truly exists.


Malcolm wrote:
Yes, if by "truly" you mean "ultimately."

The Geluks make a distinction between "mere existence", which is not an object of analysis, and "true existence," which is an object of analysis. In Geluk Madhyamaka, the mode of investigation is to search for inherent existence in a given thing.

So yes, the Geklukpas are saying nothing truly exists, and that things exist merely on a conventional level, which cannot withstand ultimate analysis.

Nicholas2727 said:
Would they also say that consciousness does not ultimately exist?

Malcolm wrote:
Consciousness is a dependently arising dharma. So not, it does not ultimately exist.

Nicholas2727 said:
I would be curious how this fits with Madhyamaka philosophy. From my very limited understanding, Madhyamaka is supposed to be the middle way between nihilism and externalism. If they say nothing ultimately exists how is this between nihilism and eternalism?

Malcolm wrote:
Whatever is dependently originated, that is empty, that is dependently designated, and that is the middle way.

That which arises dependently is free from the extremes of permanence and annihilation. You might try reading Tsongkhapa's Praise to Dependent Origination. Many people consider it Tsongkhapa's final statement on his realization of emptiness.


Nicholas2727 said:
Also from my understanding, many Sakyapas hold the Rangtong view of emptiness. Does there interpretation match with the Gelug view that nothing ultimately exists?

Malcolm wrote:
There is no such thing as a rang stong view of emptiness unless one holds a gzhan stong view of emptiness. Since neither the Sakyas nor the Geluks hold a gzhan stong view of emptiness, they cannot maintain a rang stong view of emptiness.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Tuesday, January 5th, 2021 at 12:28 AM
Title: Re: Buddha without 9 realms, permanent aggregates, and the aggregates of nirvana
Content:


Queequeg said:
Tathagatagarbha texts such as the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra use positive language to discuss things like Buddha Nature. In that text, for instance, the Buddha flips his usual script a bit, declaring that reality is marked by permanence, bliss, true self, and purity. Some people read that and think, "Oh, the Buddha actually teaches Self!" They think its license to reify their naive and mistaken notions about conventional self and call it "True Self!". But that's not what the text actually says. The caveat of emptiness still applies. These words are not some final "truth" but rather a therapeutic convention to bring people back from the desiccated absorption in the one-sided view of emptiness only, ie. the view of emptiness that forgets that emptiness is only found in conventions.  This is illustrated by the parable of the king's physician in, iirc, chapter 5.

Malcolm wrote:
And why the text is interpretable, rather than being definitive.

Queequeg said:
A firm understanding of, for instance, MMK, is required for entry into MHCK.

Malcolm wrote:
A firm understanding of MMK is required, period.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 10:45 PM
Title: Re: What are the most popular Tibetan Buddhist sutras?
Content:
Padmist said:
Heart?
Diamond?
Vimalakiri?

What would be the top 5

Malcolm wrote:
The most important sutras in Tibetan Buddhism are the Perfection of Wisdom Sutras, specifically those in 25,000 lines and 8,000 lines. This is evident from the fact that in India and Tibet more commentaries have been written on these two sutras than any other sutras.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 9:14 PM
Title: Re: Are there any forms of Buddhism where ordination/priesthood does not require a 4 year degree?
Content:
Snowbeast said:
So this is just something I have been interested in for a while. Does anyone know if there are any schools of Buddhism that do not require a four year degree for ordination? It seems like most Japanese schools do, Jodo Shinshu definitely does, and in Jodo Shu the training for monks is equivalent to a four year degree. Are there any schools that do all of the training for becoming a monk or priest within the temple? Are there any Buddhist varieties  that require a long training session but it is not related to western style four year education? If anyone could explain how ordination works in their particular school it would be very interesting to hear.

Malcolm wrote:
Tibetan Buddhism schools do not require a four year degree. Just celibacy.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 10:21 AM
Title: Re: 'I just want 11,780 votes'
Content:
PeterC said:
Can be be charged with a crime?  Well, seditious conspiracy requires a plan that involves use of force, and that element will be hard to show.  Attempted electoral fraud seems like a safer bet, though there would be a good defence available that he’s simply deluded and thinks he did win.

The shocking part of this is how few republicans are willing to stand up and condemn his behavior.  They’re hiding behind the letter of the law - claiming ‘concerns’, demanding an ‘investigation’, and threatening to use their (lawful) right to object to the ballot count on the 6th January.  All of which is probably legal, but it’s still treason, it’s contrary to their oath of office and harmful to their country.  And the Republican Party is fine with it.

Malcolm wrote:
Fascist bastards all.

PeterC said:
Someone pointed out to me recently that, appropriately enough, 'senator' is an anagram of 'treason'.

They are fascists, by the commonly-used definition of the term.  They do not believe in democracy.  Congress can, and should expel them. This is as simple as a referral to a committee then a passed resolution.  In the past it has expelled members for supporting the confederacy, but the power to expel can be for failure to maintain appropriate standards of conduct, and on that, they have clearly failed. We've had 58 lawsuits over the election, all have been thrown out, all have found no factual basis for claiming misconduct in the election. This is now established fact reviewed by multiple state and federal courts, up to and including the supreme court.  Any member of congress who signs onto an objection to the electoral count now should be expelled.

Malcolm wrote:
I agree. Will be calling my senators and congressional rep.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 10:20 AM
Title: Re: Wait, so Karma and Rebirth don't exist?
Content:
haha said:
Only particular cetanas are regarded as Karma, not all.

Malcolm wrote:
Source?

haha said:
Nor the vipaka is karma.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, it is the ripening of karma.

haha said:
Only cetana accompanies with 29 kinds of consciousness (citta) is called Karma (i.e. Kusala, Akusal, Rupa, and Arupa). So, vipaka cittas are not karma, nor kriya cittas (i.e. cetana accompanies with). I don’t have the source. Anyone who is well verse in Theravada Abhidharma could tell. I only picked that was useful for me.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, vipaka cittas are not karma, they are the ripening of karma, but all volition all factors are karma, either positive, negative, or neutral, so I am not sure what your objection too is.

And here, Vasubandhu and Asanga are the standard.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 9:56 AM
Title: Re: Wait, so Karma and Rebirth don't exist?
Content:
haha said:
Only particular cetanas are regarded as Karma, not all.

Malcolm wrote:
Source?

haha said:
Nor the vipaka is karma.

Malcolm wrote:
Correct, it is the ripening of karma.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 8:46 AM
Title: Re: Response to PadmaVonSamba
Content:
illarraza said:
No-self and not-self are an integral attribute of phenomena, including human beings. So is self or Atman. Although humans demonstrate temporality and non-substantiality, they also possess the truth of the Middle Way (Tientai) which means that the true nature of phenomena is that they are neither non-substantial nor temporarily existent but they display attributes of both. Non-self or Anatman is a partial or provisional teaching, failing to take into account the eternal reality of phenomena.

Malcolm wrote:
You don’t understand the middle way. You just fell into the third extreme, asserting that things both exist and do not exist.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 8:44 AM
Title: Re: 'I just want 11,780 votes'
Content:
PeterC said:
Can be be charged with a crime?  Well, seditious conspiracy requires a plan that involves use of force, and that element will be hard to show.  Attempted electoral fraud seems like a safer bet, though there would be a good defence available that he’s simply deluded and thinks he did win.

The shocking part of this is how few republicans are willing to stand up and condemn his behavior.  They’re hiding behind the letter of the law - claiming ‘concerns’, demanding an ‘investigation’, and threatening to use their (lawful) right to object to the ballot count on the 6th January.  All of which is probably legal, but it’s still treason, it’s contrary to their oath of office and harmful to their country.  And the Republican Party is fine with it.

Malcolm wrote:
Fascist bastards all.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 8:10 AM
Title: Re: Wait, so Karma and Rebirth don't exist?
Content:
JoaoRodrigues said:
There's no real agreement to what karma is, it's not a consistent doctrine

Malcolm wrote:
It is in fact quite consistent in Buddhadharma. The Buddha said that "Karma is intention and what results from intention."


Sādhaka said:
Is that the definitive meaning on karma in Buddhadharma? (at least as far as Hinayana and common Mahayana are concerned)....

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, it is definitive for all yanas. Karma is easy to understand, karmavipaka, the ripening of karma is a bit more difficult to understanding.


Author: Malcolm
Date: Monday, January 4th, 2021 at 5:20 AM
Title: Re: 'I just want 11,780 votes'
Content:



rose said:
Are there likely to be any actual consequences for president Trump?

Malcolm wrote:
Nope, the POS.


